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the MP5K - A3 switch | ==the MP5K - A3 switch== | ||
he reaches for a fresh magazine, not an A3. | |||
:I have this movie on Blu Ray, and I can definitely tell you that Til Schweiger's character reaches for the MP5A3. You can clearly see that he has it hanging from a sling beneath his trench coat and pulls it out. The movie doesn't show him discarding the MP5K, but he definitely seems to have ditched it and gone to the MP5A3, instead of reloading the other weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:48, 16 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
:Til Schweiger's character may have also discarded his MP5K for his MP5A3 because the A3 is a far better weapon to make more accurate shots at a target that is of some distance away from you and is sprinting, since the A3 has a longer barrel which means his 9mm rounds can travel farther furthering his chance of hitting his target. Case in point during that chase in the parking garage. -[[User:Choi117|Choi117]] 13:34, 4 June 2010 | |||
==MP5K briefcase== | ==MP5K briefcase== | ||
| Line 36: | Line 39: | ||
:Blu Ray time starts now. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:20, 19 January 2010 (UTC) | :Blu Ray time starts now. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:20, 19 January 2010 (UTC) | ||
==Ethnic Groups== | |||
If this movie is about Triads, how come half the members aren't even Asian? This is very very unrealistic! (Mind you I am Asian myself.) | |||
This is about Triad groups in America, not Asia. So some of the people will inevitably not be Asian. Now for my personal observation of the use of the word "Asian" to describe only Japanese/Chinese people. The countires of Asia are: Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brunei, Burma (Myanmar), Cambodia, China, Georgia, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, North Korea, South Korea, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Lebanon, Malaysia, Maldives, Mongolia, Myanmar, Nepal, Oman, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Thailand, Turkey, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, and Yemen. So what kind of "Asian" are you exactly?--[[User:Spikemonkey|Spikemonkey]] 20:26, 11 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
I am Chinese, and does this mean that white people can join the "Chinese" Triads? | |||
::Hollywood always 'mixes' up the races. I can't tell you how many 'White Christian Militia groups' in TV shows happen to have Black, Asian and Hispanic members as well ... Doh! ;) I also laugh when I see an ethnically DIVERSE street gang. I think they are specifically trying not to tar any one group as being 'the bad guys'. Of course this is not done when dealing with specific villains, like the African soldiers in 'Tears of the Sun', etc. Also SPikemonkey, you're being a little pedantic in your 'dictionary' version of Asian. No one that I know from Georigia, or UAE or Yemen call themselves 'asians'. That term stems from the word 'Oriental' which in the old days meant any country east of Constantinople. Racially and ethnically it's a historical bastardization of people's bloodlines (and has never really been corrected in the text books, which sucks). I mean, seriously. An Iranian is racially NOTHING like a Korean, etc. Those definitions were coined back in the day of 'OLD EUROPE' and reflects their cultural and racial ignorance. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:31, 12 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
::: I know, I know. Just for some reason it's always rubbed me the wrong way. I just wish people would learn the differences between Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc. as opposed to grouping them all as "Asian". I mean, even the person above, who is Chinese, said Asian. And, I agree with you about how most "Asians" would never call themselves as such. My Russian friend Val certainly doesn't. And don't even get me started on "Oriental." :) But, for the record, you sound like a smart cookie, MPM2008. I'm glad you are on here.--[[User:Spikemonkey|Spikemonkey]] 18:43, 12 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
Maybe the non-Asian people are nothing but hired guns? As for the other members, such as the guy in the garage or the second hand man, maybe it was just a necessity for them to be more diverse? Anyway the gunmen could easily be freelancers he hired to go after Chow Yun Fat's character. Makes sense instead of using your on men on a very well trained killer?[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 01:31, 13 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
::''Maybe the non-Asian people are nothing but hired guns?'' | |||
::Which doesn't explain why Mr. Wei's right-hand man is played by German [[Jürgen Prochnow]] (who is apparently supposed to be an American in this movie). I think MPM's explanation is best - Hollywood just loves to insert diversity even into groups of people where it makes no sense, and this movie is a good example. Also note that the street gang in the movie (the one at the dice game, when John and Meg steal Loco's truck and all of its guns) is similarly diverse - it has black, white and Latino members, plus an "Asian" girl (I apologize in advance for using that word). | |||
::I've always wondered who makes the decision to do this kinda stuff - I'm guessing that it's usually decided by the casting director (since, if you read movie screenplays, they never seem to make any references to ethnic diversity when describing a particular gang or other group). But it's stupid and goes against common sense. Everyone with common sense knows that a street gang in South-Central Los Angeles is going to be 100% black or Latino, just as a right-wing Christian fundamentalist group would be 100% white and an Islamic fundamentalist group would be 100% Arab. There's no sense in trying to insult our intelligence. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:32, 16 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
His right hand man could easily be explained by looking at Chinese culture. He could have saved Wei's life at some point and by doing so would have gained Wei's trust and become indebted to him. As for your examples, they are stereotypical views. One only has to look at the American jihadists captured or the underwear bomber to see that Islamic fundamentalist groups are not always 100% Arab. Look at groups in Africa, not Arabs at all, who are Islamic fundamentalist group. As for Christian fundamentalist groups would not be 100% white, they would welcome anyone as long as they were Christian. You speak like all Christian fundamentalist groups are rascist. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 16:27, 16 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
::''"As for Christian fundamentalist groups would not be 100% white, they would welcome anyone as long as they were Christian. You speak like all Christian fundamentalist groups are rascist. "'' | |||
::[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] No one implied that Christian groups were racist, but that a group which WAS white supremacist would probably be identified as Christian. I, myself, pointed out that in Hollywood, the 'bogeyman' of anti-government militias were often populated with non-white members, which was actually BETTER in that it did not smear White Christians as being ethnocentric, even though in real life, the more extreme 'white christian militias' are indeed very homogenous in their makeup, mostly due to geography rather than racism. I don't count the Aryan supremacist groups, since they are an abomination and distortion of anything 'Christian' even though they spout things 'Christian' they are anything but. But you are right. I do not think MT2008 meant to insult Christian groups, especially devout ones. You have a point that Fundamentalist Christians accept anyone who is a fundamentalist Christian regardless of race, but I think he was referring to the whack job groups who only use Christianity as a guise. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 16:58, 5 April 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::''He could have saved Wei's life at some point and by doing so would have gained Wei's trust and become indebted to him.'' | |||
:::Which would explain why Wei refers to him as "Mr. Kogan" (the sort of address you use in formal business) rather than "Michael" (the language you use when talking to a close friend). Now, you're the one speaking in (ridiculous) stereotypes. | |||
:::As for my examples, they are hardly stereotypical. As MPM pointed out, Christian fundamentalists are very ethnically homogeneous (read: white), whether that's attributable to racism or simply geography (there are examples of both). I haven't heard of the LAPD arresting too many white Crips or Bloods in Los Angeles (those teenage losers who listen to rap and try to be "down" don't count). And as for Islamic fundamentalists, I have been reading about them long enough to know that while they do exist in many countries, nearly all of the individual groups are almost always ethnically homogeneous (which, as with the Christian fundamentalists, is due mostly to geography). You are confusing Al Qaeda "prime" (which is almost 100% Arab) with its "franchise" groups within its network (which exist in many countries, like Nigeria and Pakistan, and are therefore reflective of the ethnic groups in those countries). The Taliban, likewise, are almost 100% Pashtun. I don't see why this is so controversial. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::There have bin some gangs and organize crime families that allow members of a different ethnicity to join. One example is the Japanese Yakuza. One of the Yakuza's most famous and most politically enfluential of the "Five Family's" is the Toa-kai Family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toa-kai) which was founded in 1948 by a man named Hisayuki Machii[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hisayuki_Machii]], an [[Koreans in Japan|ethnic Korean]], the Tao Yuai Jigyo Kumiai yakuza family quickly became one of most influential yakuza groups in [[Tokyo]]. It is composed of yakuza of Korean origin, and numbers more than 5,400 divided into 10 clans. While Koreans in Japan comprise only 0.5% of the population, they are a prominent part of Yakuza, despite or perhaps because Koreans suffer severe discrimination in Japanese society. Although Japanese-born people of Korean ancestry are a significant segment of the Japanese population, they are still considered resident aliens because of their nationality. But Koreans, who are often shunned in legitimate trades, are embraced by the Japanese yakuza precisely because they fit the group's "outsider" image. -[[User:Choi117|Choi117]] 13:53, 4 June 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::In my home town of Portland, OR we one of our largest street gangs the Rollin 60's are a mix of Latin, White, and Black gangmembers. -[[User:Choi117|Choi117]] 01:12, 19 Septembet 2011 (UTC) | |||
== Mr. Wei's Task == | |||
There has been some discussion on why John chooses a Colt SMG to kill Stan "Zeedo" Zedkov's (Michael Rooker's) son in the film's pivotal assassination scene. It does take a few dots to connect; however once I realised why, I really appreciated his choice of arms. As usual John Woo knows his guns. | |||
As a primary plot of the film John has been given a number of engraved bullets. Each bullet is a mission provided to him by Mr Wei. To this point all of the missions have been, according to John, "Bad Guy's." So, to John, he is doing society a favor and taking care of undisclosed business with Mr. Wei. When he has fired the last engraved bullet, his debt is paid. Another interesting note is the Chinese character engraved on John's bullets means "death." | |||
John's final mission tasked is to kill Zedkov's son while in his arms. So while an unusual choice for a sniping mission the Colt 9mm SMG provides a platform that can fire a 9mm from a range where he will be undetected by Zedkov. However, John's conscience prevails and he scrubs the mission. | |||
In the end John end's up returning the bullet to Mr. Wei. John has an amazing work ethic. | |||
Latest revision as of 22:55, 28 July 2023
the MP5K - A3 switch
he reaches for a fresh magazine, not an A3.
- I have this movie on Blu Ray, and I can definitely tell you that Til Schweiger's character reaches for the MP5A3. You can clearly see that he has it hanging from a sling beneath his trench coat and pulls it out. The movie doesn't show him discarding the MP5K, but he definitely seems to have ditched it and gone to the MP5A3, instead of reloading the other weapon. -MT2008 15:48, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
- Til Schweiger's character may have also discarded his MP5K for his MP5A3 because the A3 is a far better weapon to make more accurate shots at a target that is of some distance away from you and is sprinting, since the A3 has a longer barrel which means his 9mm rounds can travel farther furthering his chance of hitting his target. Case in point during that chase in the parking garage. -Choi117 13:34, 4 June 2010
MP5K briefcase
Someone please point me to an outside source which claims that the briefcase version must be fired horizontally. Thanks so much. I haven't heard that before and have fired the device myself vertically. I thought that shooting it horizontally would ensure a stovepipe. MPM2008
- That's what HKPRO says: Difficult to fire accurately, the briefcase can easily put bullet holes into the calf of the firer, should he decide to fire the K on full auto while holding the case normally. Can you picture it? (http://hkpro.com/mp5k.htm) I have no idea how true it is, as I've never seen nor handled the briefcase MP5K. However, I can imagine that if you fire it vertically and you're letting it loosely dangle at your side (the way Til Schweiger is doing in the movie), the recoil would make it difficult to control and you could, maybe, shoot your own legs. -MT2008
- Interesting. I've only fired it with blanks. And I held it with two hands, right hand on top, left hand holding the bottom of the case and it was fine. I think that risk only happens if you hold it buy the carry handle and let it 'dangle', certainly the 'push back' of the constant fire would push the briefcase backwards. MoviePropMaster2008 04:54, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Widescreen
I fixed the images, one less page with widescreen bars. - Gunmaster45
Browning HP
"You can see that it is a P35 from the brown grips, the Mark III has black ones and you can tell that it is not the original one since its hammer is the same as the Mark III's"
What does that mean? The P35 is the original one, the first model. I know they started making those spur hammers after the war, but I'm not sure exactly when. It could be a Mark II.
- Yeah, what does that mean? The early ones more commonly called the P35 had the internal extractor, you can buy new Hi-Powers that are basically the same as the Mark III models but blued and wood grips. The spur hammers have been around forever. The P35 is just another name for the Hi-Power. -Predator20 00:40, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
IMI Desert Eagle Mark VII
How do we know it is the .357 variant?
- Maybe the number of rounds fired before reloading or maybe the muzzle diameter? -Predator20 00:32, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
- Muzzle diameter, in this case. Also, the .357 Desert Eagles were by far the most common ones seen in American action movies in the 1990s, so when in doubt, it's always a safe bet. -MT2008 21:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
DVD vs. Blu Ray
I just picked up this movie on Blu Ray. I haven't finished watching it yet (or screencapping), but I thought I'd post this image to illustrate the quality difference. Compare the two images (focus especially on how detailed the bad guy's SIG P226 appears in the top image versus the bottom image when you expand to full-size):
Looks pretty good, eh? -MT2008 21:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
- Blu Ray time starts now. -MT2008 00:20, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Ethnic Groups
If this movie is about Triads, how come half the members aren't even Asian? This is very very unrealistic! (Mind you I am Asian myself.)
This is about Triad groups in America, not Asia. So some of the people will inevitably not be Asian. Now for my personal observation of the use of the word "Asian" to describe only Japanese/Chinese people. The countires of Asia are: Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brunei, Burma (Myanmar), Cambodia, China, Georgia, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, North Korea, South Korea, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Lebanon, Malaysia, Maldives, Mongolia, Myanmar, Nepal, Oman, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Thailand, Turkey, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, and Yemen. So what kind of "Asian" are you exactly?--Spikemonkey 20:26, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
I am Chinese, and does this mean that white people can join the "Chinese" Triads?
- Hollywood always 'mixes' up the races. I can't tell you how many 'White Christian Militia groups' in TV shows happen to have Black, Asian and Hispanic members as well ... Doh! ;) I also laugh when I see an ethnically DIVERSE street gang. I think they are specifically trying not to tar any one group as being 'the bad guys'. Of course this is not done when dealing with specific villains, like the African soldiers in 'Tears of the Sun', etc. Also SPikemonkey, you're being a little pedantic in your 'dictionary' version of Asian. No one that I know from Georigia, or UAE or Yemen call themselves 'asians'. That term stems from the word 'Oriental' which in the old days meant any country east of Constantinople. Racially and ethnically it's a historical bastardization of people's bloodlines (and has never really been corrected in the text books, which sucks). I mean, seriously. An Iranian is racially NOTHING like a Korean, etc. Those definitions were coined back in the day of 'OLD EUROPE' and reflects their cultural and racial ignorance. :) MoviePropMaster2008 18:31, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
- I know, I know. Just for some reason it's always rubbed me the wrong way. I just wish people would learn the differences between Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc. as opposed to grouping them all as "Asian". I mean, even the person above, who is Chinese, said Asian. And, I agree with you about how most "Asians" would never call themselves as such. My Russian friend Val certainly doesn't. And don't even get me started on "Oriental." :) But, for the record, you sound like a smart cookie, MPM2008. I'm glad you are on here.--Spikemonkey 18:43, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Maybe the non-Asian people are nothing but hired guns? As for the other members, such as the guy in the garage or the second hand man, maybe it was just a necessity for them to be more diverse? Anyway the gunmen could easily be freelancers he hired to go after Chow Yun Fat's character. Makes sense instead of using your on men on a very well trained killer?GaBoy45 01:31, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Maybe the non-Asian people are nothing but hired guns?
- Which doesn't explain why Mr. Wei's right-hand man is played by German Jürgen Prochnow (who is apparently supposed to be an American in this movie). I think MPM's explanation is best - Hollywood just loves to insert diversity even into groups of people where it makes no sense, and this movie is a good example. Also note that the street gang in the movie (the one at the dice game, when John and Meg steal Loco's truck and all of its guns) is similarly diverse - it has black, white and Latino members, plus an "Asian" girl (I apologize in advance for using that word).
- I've always wondered who makes the decision to do this kinda stuff - I'm guessing that it's usually decided by the casting director (since, if you read movie screenplays, they never seem to make any references to ethnic diversity when describing a particular gang or other group). But it's stupid and goes against common sense. Everyone with common sense knows that a street gang in South-Central Los Angeles is going to be 100% black or Latino, just as a right-wing Christian fundamentalist group would be 100% white and an Islamic fundamentalist group would be 100% Arab. There's no sense in trying to insult our intelligence. -MT2008 15:32, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
His right hand man could easily be explained by looking at Chinese culture. He could have saved Wei's life at some point and by doing so would have gained Wei's trust and become indebted to him. As for your examples, they are stereotypical views. One only has to look at the American jihadists captured or the underwear bomber to see that Islamic fundamentalist groups are not always 100% Arab. Look at groups in Africa, not Arabs at all, who are Islamic fundamentalist group. As for Christian fundamentalist groups would not be 100% white, they would welcome anyone as long as they were Christian. You speak like all Christian fundamentalist groups are rascist. GaBoy45 16:27, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
- "As for Christian fundamentalist groups would not be 100% white, they would welcome anyone as long as they were Christian. You speak like all Christian fundamentalist groups are rascist. "
- GaBoy45 No one implied that Christian groups were racist, but that a group which WAS white supremacist would probably be identified as Christian. I, myself, pointed out that in Hollywood, the 'bogeyman' of anti-government militias were often populated with non-white members, which was actually BETTER in that it did not smear White Christians as being ethnocentric, even though in real life, the more extreme 'white christian militias' are indeed very homogenous in their makeup, mostly due to geography rather than racism. I don't count the Aryan supremacist groups, since they are an abomination and distortion of anything 'Christian' even though they spout things 'Christian' they are anything but. But you are right. I do not think MT2008 meant to insult Christian groups, especially devout ones. You have a point that Fundamentalist Christians accept anyone who is a fundamentalist Christian regardless of race, but I think he was referring to the whack job groups who only use Christianity as a guise. MoviePropMaster2008 16:58, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
- He could have saved Wei's life at some point and by doing so would have gained Wei's trust and become indebted to him.
- Which would explain why Wei refers to him as "Mr. Kogan" (the sort of address you use in formal business) rather than "Michael" (the language you use when talking to a close friend). Now, you're the one speaking in (ridiculous) stereotypes.
- As for my examples, they are hardly stereotypical. As MPM pointed out, Christian fundamentalists are very ethnically homogeneous (read: white), whether that's attributable to racism or simply geography (there are examples of both). I haven't heard of the LAPD arresting too many white Crips or Bloods in Los Angeles (those teenage losers who listen to rap and try to be "down" don't count). And as for Islamic fundamentalists, I have been reading about them long enough to know that while they do exist in many countries, nearly all of the individual groups are almost always ethnically homogeneous (which, as with the Christian fundamentalists, is due mostly to geography). You are confusing Al Qaeda "prime" (which is almost 100% Arab) with its "franchise" groups within its network (which exist in many countries, like Nigeria and Pakistan, and are therefore reflective of the ethnic groups in those countries). The Taliban, likewise, are almost 100% Pashtun. I don't see why this is so controversial. -MT2008 15:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
- There have bin some gangs and organize crime families that allow members of a different ethnicity to join. One example is the Japanese Yakuza. One of the Yakuza's most famous and most politically enfluential of the "Five Family's" is the Toa-kai Family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toa-kai) which was founded in 1948 by a man named Hisayuki Machii[[1]], an ethnic Korean, the Tao Yuai Jigyo Kumiai yakuza family quickly became one of most influential yakuza groups in Tokyo. It is composed of yakuza of Korean origin, and numbers more than 5,400 divided into 10 clans. While Koreans in Japan comprise only 0.5% of the population, they are a prominent part of Yakuza, despite or perhaps because Koreans suffer severe discrimination in Japanese society. Although Japanese-born people of Korean ancestry are a significant segment of the Japanese population, they are still considered resident aliens because of their nationality. But Koreans, who are often shunned in legitimate trades, are embraced by the Japanese yakuza precisely because they fit the group's "outsider" image. -Choi117 13:53, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
- In my home town of Portland, OR we one of our largest street gangs the Rollin 60's are a mix of Latin, White, and Black gangmembers. -Choi117 01:12, 19 Septembet 2011 (UTC)
Mr. Wei's Task
There has been some discussion on why John chooses a Colt SMG to kill Stan "Zeedo" Zedkov's (Michael Rooker's) son in the film's pivotal assassination scene. It does take a few dots to connect; however once I realised why, I really appreciated his choice of arms. As usual John Woo knows his guns.
As a primary plot of the film John has been given a number of engraved bullets. Each bullet is a mission provided to him by Mr Wei. To this point all of the missions have been, according to John, "Bad Guy's." So, to John, he is doing society a favor and taking care of undisclosed business with Mr. Wei. When he has fired the last engraved bullet, his debt is paid. Another interesting note is the Chinese character engraved on John's bullets means "death."
John's final mission tasked is to kill Zedkov's son while in his arms. So while an unusual choice for a sniping mission the Colt 9mm SMG provides a platform that can fire a 9mm from a range where he will be undetected by Zedkov. However, John's conscience prevails and he scrubs the mission.
In the end John end's up returning the bullet to Mr. Wei. John has an amazing work ethic.