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Talk:Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood: Difference between revisions
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more to come, got errands, finish when im back-k9870 | more to come, got errands, finish when im back-k9870 | ||
Good job on this. Only problem I have is that you misspelled anachronisms many times | |||
==LeMat Revolver== | |||
I understand that the underbarrel on the real-life LeMat fired a shotgun shell. In both Call of Juarez games, the LeMat fires a rifle round instead. Is this an error or were LeMats able to fire a rifle round? - [[User:1morey]] February 26, 2011 11:44 AM (EST) | |||
As far as i´m aware there were different kinds of loads for the LeMats lower barrel, such as pure buckshot, a combo of shot and slug, and a solid slug shaped like a bullet, but rifle rounds no, its a 20 gauge as far as i remember. I`ve seen a detailed article about a vintage LeMat being tested and the shotgun was far from ideal to be used any farther away than 10 feet, so they probably just used rifle rounds in the game to make it realistic that it can fire that far. | |||
==Alternate Weapons== | |||
I think i've definitely thougth of some good alternatives to the anachronistic guns in the game, feel free to add to the list if you have better choices. | |||
-Schofield for Remington 1858 New Army or Starr: Since the Schofield is called the "Quickshooter" the Remington 1858 New Army would be a good alternative due to its ability to quickly remove the cylinder and replace it with a full one or the Starr 1858 for it's double action system. | |||
-Remington 1890 for 1851 Navy or 1860 Army: Due to the Remington being called the "Classic Gun" the Colt Navy or Colt Army could be called the same since they were both iconic guns of the era and were used widely by each side. | |||
-Double Barreled Shotgun for Percussion Shotgun: Replacing the anachronistic shotguns with the percussion muzzle-loaders of the era would provide a unique choice rarely seen and also adding a sawn-off version to boot. | |||
-Winchester 1892 for (obviously) Henry 1860 or Spencer 1860: I can't believe they didn't do this themsleves, but whatever, either the Henry or Spencer could have been a good choice due to them being the premier repeaters of the Civil War, Henry could match up to the Winchester in capacity while the Spencer Carbine could be an extra, or adding the full-size version just for kicks. | |||
-Sharps 1874 for 1860's Model Sharps: A wide variety of Sharps to choose from used in the Civil War could all stand in as aleternatives for the 1874, just take your pick, or for a more interesting choice the Whitworth used by Confederate sharpshooters. | |||
I can understand that for the sake of reloading would be the only reason for these weapons but there is a blackpowder solution, using paper cartridges could solve as the player wouldn't have to pour powder but simply put in the cartridge, pull the loading lever, and add a percussion cap. This process would cut down on time if it was slightly tweaked like most games do with realism. - Anonymous | |||
The reason why these guns were picked, was because they were from the first game, and so it was a nod. The Cartel too has many references to the first and second game. - [[User:1morey]] October 13, 2011 8:32 PM (EST) | |||
==Non-Firearm weapons== | |||
===Bow=== | |||
A bow is used exclusively by Thomas, and a primary weapon for the Comanche, Navajo, and Apache Indians. Strangely the Bow also has different stages of conditions. "Rusty" (The Bow is rotted and the point is rusting), "Normal", "Prime" (The Bow has markings on it), and Superb (The Bow has a dark mahogany finish with the markings). | |||
===Lasso=== | |||
A lasso is again, exclusive to Thomas. | |||
===Throwing Knives=== | |||
Throwing knifes with leather tied around the handles are usable by Thomas. | |||
===Chair=== | |||
Chairs can be picked up and used as melee weapon, primarily in Chapter IX (The player uses a chair to kill a soldier, since the player is left without weapons, but immediately regains them afterwards). | |||
== Ranger and Classic Gun == | |||
I am also a member of the Call of Juarez Wiki, and the admins are leaning towards the idea that the Ranger is based on a Colt Army 1860. I believe that it is the Colt Dragoon. Is there any distinguishing characteristics that would properly identify this gun. | |||
Also with the Classic Gun, it states it is a Remington 1890, the admins are thinking it is the Colt SAA, they claim that the Classic Gun looks more like a Colt SAA, and also they claim they could not find anything on the Remington 1890. | |||
So can we get someone to properly identify these handguns once and for all. | |||
EDIT: The Classic Gun HAS to be a Colt SAA, the game files identify the gun as "peacemaker". -[[User:1morey]] April 26, 2011 7:51 PM (EST) | |||
Load up the Editor and have a closer look at the weapon model, specifically the ejector rod housing. Whatever the game calls it, its definately modeled after a Remington 1890. | |||
EDIT: Here's what i mean, the Bound in Blood Classic gun model on the left, Call of Juarez 1 version on the right. | |||
http://i51.tinypic.com/2d1wx79.jpg | |||
Make sure to sign your posts so we know who we are talking to. Anyways, I agree with you wholeheartedly that it is a Remington 1890, but the Admins at the CoJ Wiki are still clinging to the Classic Gun to being a Colt SAA, and they also say the Ranger is actually the Colt Walker from the first game. here is what they said: | |||
"Nice picture 11Morey, but no. The gun is a Colt Single Action Army, proved by the fact of the game files listing the Peacemaker, another name for the SAA. I agree in the fact it looks more like a Remington 1890, perhaps it was bad research on Techland's part (althoguh later SAA's looked just like Remington 1890s) but the gun is a Colt Single Action Army revolver, and I think it's time we moved on from this subject. I checked the sound files just to be certain, as I've played BiB so much I know what each gun sounds like, nothing is out of order here. | |||
The Classic gun, is a Colt SAA. If you don't believe me then look at Call of Juarez and Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood pc versions' game files with WinRAR or another program that can open up ZIP and similar files. | |||
I have a new revelation on the Ranger topic, which will also close the ID issue there as well. The Ranger in Bound in Blood is not teh 1860, not the Dragoon, it is none other than our old friend... The Colt Walker, it is the same gun in both games, I never checked the game files for the Ranger before, I checked both CoJ and BiB, so we have confirmation, both are the Colt Walker." | |||
This is exactly what they said. I've tried everything to show them they made a mistake, and I don't blame them, everybody, even the guys here at IMFDB make mistakes, and I don't want to start something, but me and my love for all things that go bang tell me to correct their mistakes. So if you can make an account (Unless you already have a Wiki account (IMFDB won't work), it would be appreciated. - [[User:1morey]] May 2, 2011 9:38 PM (EST). | |||
I don't know the CoJ Wiki standards, but why stick to a name just because the guy packing the files probably didn't talk to the one modeling the weapons? The name isn't even visible ingame, the model is. If the filename was "44mm Desert Eagle nuclear mortar" would they still use it too? -Anonymous | |||
== Ranger == | |||
According to some people, the Ranger is a cartridge-converted Colt Army 1860 with a fluted cylinder. | |||
I'd like to hear what other people think. - [[User:1morey]] May 28, 2013 9:44 PM (EST) | |||
I think it is a Colt Dragoon. The give-away would be how the frame extend forwards and covers part of the barrel and loading lever, which the designs of the 1860 and later Colt revolvers do not have. Although the sights reminds me of a cartridge converted 1860 Army. | |||
The better question is what the web under the barrel with a large screw in it is, anyone knows what that is based on? [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 11:21, 9 April 2014 (EDT) | |||
== Ejecting cartridges out of revolvers? == | |||
I recently felt like replaying Bound in Blood, and while doing so I noticed something very unexpected. As those familiar with the Call of Juarez series knows, revolvers with loading gates never has the fired cartridges ejected using the ejector rod, obviously to reduce reloading time. | |||
What I noticed was that the characters actually do push the old cartridges out, only in a very unusual way. They load new cartridges in through the loading gate into chambers still loaded with fired cartridges, and uses a strong push from the new cartridge to eject the old one out through the front of the cylinder. Basically, the new cartridge is used as a reversed ejector rod. | |||
This is evidenced by the fact that every time they insert a new cartridge an old one is visually ejected out through the front. | |||
Is this possible? Since the cylinders are bored straight through, i would imagine things could pass through. I could see the rim of the cartridges being a problem though, but maybe you could force them through. | |||
I could not find any information on this "technique" on the internet, anyone having any comments on this? [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 11:52, 9 April 2014 (EDT) | |||
:This technique isn't referenced in real life because it's not a good idea. Revolver cartridges back then and even today almost always have rims on them (the protruding round part at the bottom of the casing). The rims are there so that the casings will stay inside the cylinder unless pushed out backwards by an ejector rod or an ejector star. Trying to push a rimmed cartridge or casing out towards the muzzle while it's loaded in a revolver's cylinder would likely damage a revolver before you succeeded in getting the round out through the cylinder's front. | |||
:I'm not aware of any revolvers that eject casings towards the muzzle rather than towards the rear of the gun. You could use rimless rounds and push them straight forwards through the cylinder of revolver chambered for them, but then nothing is really stopping the rounds from dropping forward out of the cylinder. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 23:33, 15 July 2016 (EDT) | |||
==Ranger== | |||
I still am not sure what exactly was going on with the Walker. That webbing (and whatever all the extra bits that are across it) is really weird, and I'm not sure what they were basing it off of. (None of the other guns in the series are heavily modified like that, save for giving the Rangers in all the games rear sights (which I can't believe Colt did not do in the first place.) But it looks like they were trying to make a Colt Walker with design elements of the Remington 1858. -[[User:1morey]] July 5, 2016 10:55 PM (EST) | |||
Looks like a lightly modified Ruger Old Army to me. --[[User:Black Irish Paddy|Black Irish Paddy]] ([[User talk:Black Irish Paddy|talk]]) 22:41, 6 July 2016 (EDT) | |||
Latest revision as of 03:33, 16 July 2016
more to come, got errands, finish when im back-k9870
Good job on this. Only problem I have is that you misspelled anachronisms many times
LeMat Revolver
I understand that the underbarrel on the real-life LeMat fired a shotgun shell. In both Call of Juarez games, the LeMat fires a rifle round instead. Is this an error or were LeMats able to fire a rifle round? - User:1morey February 26, 2011 11:44 AM (EST)
As far as i´m aware there were different kinds of loads for the LeMats lower barrel, such as pure buckshot, a combo of shot and slug, and a solid slug shaped like a bullet, but rifle rounds no, its a 20 gauge as far as i remember. I`ve seen a detailed article about a vintage LeMat being tested and the shotgun was far from ideal to be used any farther away than 10 feet, so they probably just used rifle rounds in the game to make it realistic that it can fire that far.
Alternate Weapons
I think i've definitely thougth of some good alternatives to the anachronistic guns in the game, feel free to add to the list if you have better choices.
-Schofield for Remington 1858 New Army or Starr: Since the Schofield is called the "Quickshooter" the Remington 1858 New Army would be a good alternative due to its ability to quickly remove the cylinder and replace it with a full one or the Starr 1858 for it's double action system.
-Remington 1890 for 1851 Navy or 1860 Army: Due to the Remington being called the "Classic Gun" the Colt Navy or Colt Army could be called the same since they were both iconic guns of the era and were used widely by each side.
-Double Barreled Shotgun for Percussion Shotgun: Replacing the anachronistic shotguns with the percussion muzzle-loaders of the era would provide a unique choice rarely seen and also adding a sawn-off version to boot.
-Winchester 1892 for (obviously) Henry 1860 or Spencer 1860: I can't believe they didn't do this themsleves, but whatever, either the Henry or Spencer could have been a good choice due to them being the premier repeaters of the Civil War, Henry could match up to the Winchester in capacity while the Spencer Carbine could be an extra, or adding the full-size version just for kicks.
-Sharps 1874 for 1860's Model Sharps: A wide variety of Sharps to choose from used in the Civil War could all stand in as aleternatives for the 1874, just take your pick, or for a more interesting choice the Whitworth used by Confederate sharpshooters.
I can understand that for the sake of reloading would be the only reason for these weapons but there is a blackpowder solution, using paper cartridges could solve as the player wouldn't have to pour powder but simply put in the cartridge, pull the loading lever, and add a percussion cap. This process would cut down on time if it was slightly tweaked like most games do with realism. - Anonymous
The reason why these guns were picked, was because they were from the first game, and so it was a nod. The Cartel too has many references to the first and second game. - User:1morey October 13, 2011 8:32 PM (EST)
Non-Firearm weapons
Bow
A bow is used exclusively by Thomas, and a primary weapon for the Comanche, Navajo, and Apache Indians. Strangely the Bow also has different stages of conditions. "Rusty" (The Bow is rotted and the point is rusting), "Normal", "Prime" (The Bow has markings on it), and Superb (The Bow has a dark mahogany finish with the markings).
Lasso
A lasso is again, exclusive to Thomas.
Throwing Knives
Throwing knifes with leather tied around the handles are usable by Thomas.
Chair
Chairs can be picked up and used as melee weapon, primarily in Chapter IX (The player uses a chair to kill a soldier, since the player is left without weapons, but immediately regains them afterwards).
Ranger and Classic Gun
I am also a member of the Call of Juarez Wiki, and the admins are leaning towards the idea that the Ranger is based on a Colt Army 1860. I believe that it is the Colt Dragoon. Is there any distinguishing characteristics that would properly identify this gun.
Also with the Classic Gun, it states it is a Remington 1890, the admins are thinking it is the Colt SAA, they claim that the Classic Gun looks more like a Colt SAA, and also they claim they could not find anything on the Remington 1890.
So can we get someone to properly identify these handguns once and for all.
EDIT: The Classic Gun HAS to be a Colt SAA, the game files identify the gun as "peacemaker". -User:1morey April 26, 2011 7:51 PM (EST)
Load up the Editor and have a closer look at the weapon model, specifically the ejector rod housing. Whatever the game calls it, its definately modeled after a Remington 1890.
EDIT: Here's what i mean, the Bound in Blood Classic gun model on the left, Call of Juarez 1 version on the right.
http://i51.tinypic.com/2d1wx79.jpg
Make sure to sign your posts so we know who we are talking to. Anyways, I agree with you wholeheartedly that it is a Remington 1890, but the Admins at the CoJ Wiki are still clinging to the Classic Gun to being a Colt SAA, and they also say the Ranger is actually the Colt Walker from the first game. here is what they said:
"Nice picture 11Morey, but no. The gun is a Colt Single Action Army, proved by the fact of the game files listing the Peacemaker, another name for the SAA. I agree in the fact it looks more like a Remington 1890, perhaps it was bad research on Techland's part (althoguh later SAA's looked just like Remington 1890s) but the gun is a Colt Single Action Army revolver, and I think it's time we moved on from this subject. I checked the sound files just to be certain, as I've played BiB so much I know what each gun sounds like, nothing is out of order here.
The Classic gun, is a Colt SAA. If you don't believe me then look at Call of Juarez and Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood pc versions' game files with WinRAR or another program that can open up ZIP and similar files.
I have a new revelation on the Ranger topic, which will also close the ID issue there as well. The Ranger in Bound in Blood is not teh 1860, not the Dragoon, it is none other than our old friend... The Colt Walker, it is the same gun in both games, I never checked the game files for the Ranger before, I checked both CoJ and BiB, so we have confirmation, both are the Colt Walker."
This is exactly what they said. I've tried everything to show them they made a mistake, and I don't blame them, everybody, even the guys here at IMFDB make mistakes, and I don't want to start something, but me and my love for all things that go bang tell me to correct their mistakes. So if you can make an account (Unless you already have a Wiki account (IMFDB won't work), it would be appreciated. - User:1morey May 2, 2011 9:38 PM (EST).
I don't know the CoJ Wiki standards, but why stick to a name just because the guy packing the files probably didn't talk to the one modeling the weapons? The name isn't even visible ingame, the model is. If the filename was "44mm Desert Eagle nuclear mortar" would they still use it too? -Anonymous
Ranger
According to some people, the Ranger is a cartridge-converted Colt Army 1860 with a fluted cylinder.
I'd like to hear what other people think. - User:1morey May 28, 2013 9:44 PM (EST)
I think it is a Colt Dragoon. The give-away would be how the frame extend forwards and covers part of the barrel and loading lever, which the designs of the 1860 and later Colt revolvers do not have. Although the sights reminds me of a cartridge converted 1860 Army.
The better question is what the web under the barrel with a large screw in it is, anyone knows what that is based on? Z008MJ (talk) 11:21, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
Ejecting cartridges out of revolvers?
I recently felt like replaying Bound in Blood, and while doing so I noticed something very unexpected. As those familiar with the Call of Juarez series knows, revolvers with loading gates never has the fired cartridges ejected using the ejector rod, obviously to reduce reloading time.
What I noticed was that the characters actually do push the old cartridges out, only in a very unusual way. They load new cartridges in through the loading gate into chambers still loaded with fired cartridges, and uses a strong push from the new cartridge to eject the old one out through the front of the cylinder. Basically, the new cartridge is used as a reversed ejector rod.
This is evidenced by the fact that every time they insert a new cartridge an old one is visually ejected out through the front.
Is this possible? Since the cylinders are bored straight through, i would imagine things could pass through. I could see the rim of the cartridges being a problem though, but maybe you could force them through.
I could not find any information on this "technique" on the internet, anyone having any comments on this? Z008MJ (talk) 11:52, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
- This technique isn't referenced in real life because it's not a good idea. Revolver cartridges back then and even today almost always have rims on them (the protruding round part at the bottom of the casing). The rims are there so that the casings will stay inside the cylinder unless pushed out backwards by an ejector rod or an ejector star. Trying to push a rimmed cartridge or casing out towards the muzzle while it's loaded in a revolver's cylinder would likely damage a revolver before you succeeded in getting the round out through the cylinder's front.
- I'm not aware of any revolvers that eject casings towards the muzzle rather than towards the rear of the gun. You could use rimless rounds and push them straight forwards through the cylinder of revolver chambered for them, but then nothing is really stopping the rounds from dropping forward out of the cylinder. --Mazryonh (talk) 23:33, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
Ranger
I still am not sure what exactly was going on with the Walker. That webbing (and whatever all the extra bits that are across it) is really weird, and I'm not sure what they were basing it off of. (None of the other guns in the series are heavily modified like that, save for giving the Rangers in all the games rear sights (which I can't believe Colt did not do in the first place.) But it looks like they were trying to make a Colt Walker with design elements of the Remington 1858. -User:1morey July 5, 2016 10:55 PM (EST)
Looks like a lightly modified Ruger Old Army to me. --Black Irish Paddy (talk) 22:41, 6 July 2016 (EDT)