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== Current Screen used guns pics shot and uploaded == | == Current Screen used guns pics shot and uploaded == | ||
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[[File:Walther-WA2000.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]] | |||
[[File:ColtWalker1847ScreenUsed.jpg |thumb|none|400px|]] | [[File:ColtWalker1847ScreenUsed.jpg |thumb|none|400px|]] | ||
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== Day of the Dead 2008 == | == Day of the Dead 2008 == | ||
I was just going by what the previous description on the page said --> ''A Bulgarian Arsenal AR rifle '''(Actually milled receiver AK47)''' with black synthetic foregrip, long flash hider and black synthetic Thumbhole Stock is used by Salazar ([[Nick Cannon]]) and Nina ([[AnnaLynne McCord]]).'' I still haven't quite perfected my ''AK-fu'' yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:51, 11 January 2018 (EST) | I was just going by what the previous description on the page said --> ''A Bulgarian Arsenal AR rifle '''(Actually milled receiver AK47)''' with black synthetic foregrip, long flash hider and black synthetic Thumbhole Stock is used by Salazar ([[Nick Cannon]]) and Nina ([[AnnaLynne McCord]]).'' I still haven't quite perfected my ''AK-fu'' yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:51, 11 January 2018 (EST) | ||
== Are the "FN LAR"s actually G1s? == | |||
[[Image:FN-LAR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Original FN LAR (Light Automatic Rifle) - full auto rifle - 7.62x51mm NATO. Note the folded bipod.]] | |||
[[Image:FN-LAR-with-Wood-Stock.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Original FN LAR (Light Automatic Rifle) - full auto rifle with Wooden buttstock - 7.62x51mm NATO. Note the folded bipod. Many of these rifles were issued with wooden buttstocks by FN Belgium and are seen in wars all over the world in this configuration.]] | |||
I've been pondering over the identity of these two "FN LAR"s. The name "FN LAR" is a translation of "FN FAL", and doesn't seem to designate any particular special variant, just a synonym of FN FAL. The page (and some of the pages these two images are used on) seems to imply that these two rifles are early Belgian FN FAL models, but early FN FAL models have a distinctive prototype wooden forearm that is never seen again on any other models, and doesn't seem to be these two. From what I've heard, the ribbed metal handguard on FN FALs is a feature of the Austrian and German contract models of the FN FAL, and apparently ''only'' the Austrian and German contract FALs. I think that these two images are either West German G1s, or FALs with lots of West German G1 parts. (the muzzle device also seems to be correct for the German contract muzzle device, which didn't appear on any other models; the bipod also fits the description of the G1) --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 14:00, 26 January 2019 (EST) | |||
:: You're forgetting one thing. I'm not a gun museum. I photograph MOVIE weapons. The rifles were identified as LARs. Also Movie Armorers swap barrels, furniture out all the time. All my gun photos are of weapons in Motion Picture Armory collections. If people want exact historical examples of weapons, they can visit the NRA museum or check out Gun history books :) We use a lot of 'franken guns' which are weapons BUILT UP by armorers for the purposes of movie use. Hope this helps. :) But I will welcome help in writing an updated description for the rifles, but the rifles are movie inventory guns and thus they're relevant to the site. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] ([[User talk:MoviePropMaster2008|talk]]) 19:01, 28 January 2019 (EST) | |||
::: I understand. It would be good to update the description and state that they are "in G1 configuration" or something, since original FN LARs look exactly like FN FALs, and don't have these metal foreends. Is that OK? I should also note the many of our current pages also mistakenly describes this metal foreend as an early FN FAL component, when I think it was in fact a special part intended for Germany and Austria (admittedly early because Germany and Austria are early adopters of the FN FAL), and was later applied to other FN FAL rifles. [https://laststandonzombieisland.com/2017/01/14/the-american-fal-that-could-have-been/ Real early FN FALs] (using the prototype American T48 as an example) have wooden foreends, some of which have a prototype design. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 13:30, 29 January 2019 (EST) | |||
== HK416/417 == | |||
Hi, man. Not sure if you do requests but is there any chance you could get a good pic of an HK416 and/or HK417? | |||
==Fixing up links to S&W 3913 photo== | |||
Hey there. Just fixed up redirects to the S&W 3913 to make it consistent. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 08:04, 17 February 2020 (EST) | |||
== Zip Gun == | |||
I had add some information about Zip Guns, but, I didn't watch most of this movies/TV-series, so, I couldn't add more information than present on the pages for this movies and TV-series. Also, I don;t know English term for the Zip-Gun, that appeared in the movie ''[[Brother 2 (Brat 2)]]''. In Russia, for such guns used a slang term "Podzhiga" (поджига), but this term is using only in Russian language, that don't used in any other languages (for Ezample, Belarussian Language uses term "Prypyakanku" (Прыпяканку), Ukrainian term is "Samopal" (Самопал), the last one was imported from Ukrainian to Russian language among with several other Ukrainian loanwords in Russian language). [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 12:22, 5 March 2020 (EST) | |||
== RE: On the M1911 in Death on the Nile == | |||
Thank you for the information! That's very interesting. I never considered the fact these prop houses existed at a time when guns like P38s and original wartime manufactured M1911s were cheap and plentiful. Unlike pretty much all milsurp guns today... ''cries'' --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 15:49, 16 September 2020 (EDT) | |||
== AMD-65 images == | |||
Hello MPM2008. I would like to ask, is one of the images of the [[AMD-65]] below that you uploaded a photoshopped image? I compared the two images side by side and noted that they were fully identical in lighting and conditions, with their muzzle devices being their only difference. This leads me to suspect that one of them has a photoshopped muzzle device. I've noticed a lot of old and possibly photoshopped images on IMFDB that were not clearly marked as being photoshopped. I've discussed with commando552 about this before and he said that there are loads of photoshopped gun images online, even by firearm manufacturers; for now I just want to know more about these AMD-65 images. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 00:34, 20 June 2021 (EDT) | |||
::You realize you're asking about an image thats 13 years old right? Usually I only do things like fix scratches, dents, and obvious flaws. MOst of the most egregious franken guns are usually clearly noted, not only by me but by other people as well. Now this was 13 years ago, but I recall having the actual gun on a plexi stand and just screwing the various muzzle brakes on and off and just taking another pic with identical lighting. Not sure if THAT gun was connected to that memory, but if you want I can always track down a screen used AMD and take another pic ;) But who knows? It may have been just a quick photoshop job that missed the usual 'description', or it was legit two images of the same gun with just the muzzle brakes swapped. I have a clear plexi stand with back lighting that I used for ALL of the white background gun pics. Very rarely do I have to make do with something else. I will look into it. Another question. WHY the sudden interest? There are obviously other more important issues with IMFDB than that one issue. I have to track down some 'better' examples of some of the firearms for photography, but since the explosion of annoying encounters with young foreign 'know it alls' you've probably noticed that MOST of the actual industry armorers have left. I just 'love' arguing with teenagers from the UK or Russia ..... But thanks for the interest. I'll try to track down the original files from 13(!!) years ago and figure out what happened :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] ([[User talk:MoviePropMaster2008|talk]]) 03:49, 21 June 2021 (EDT) | |||
[[File:AMD-65.jpg|thumb|500px|none|AMD-65 - 7.62x39mm]] | |||
[[Image:AMD65Short.jpg |thumb|500px|none|Hungarian AMD-65 as seen in ''[[Rambo III]]''. This one has an American copy of an Israeli blank fire adapter (which is slightly longer and thinner than most commonly seen external BFAs. This is the version seen in the movie.)]] | |||
It's OK. I have a pet peeve against photoshopped firearm images that don't explicitly mark themselves as being photoshopped, because there was this firearm illustration project on the internet called the Small Arms Illustrated Project that produced a ''lot'' of photoshopped firearm images that created tons of misinformation about firearm models (the fake [[IMBEL_MD2#IMBEL_IA2|IMBEL IA2]] models for example). It makes me cringe everytime someone puts up one of their obviously photoshopped guns in some forum thread or social media post without questioning. | |||
About the AMD-65 images, it's honestly not that big of a deal. The details (to me, at least) seem to be accurate enough to reality that they shouldn't mislead the viewers. In any case, thanks for the reply, and sorry for my own late reply. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 02:52, 30 July 2021 (EDT) | |||
== Re:Did something change in how we title movies? == | |||
This page move was a project I have been planning after I was promoted to the Administrator position last year by site owner bunni. With the agreement of other site admins (including Bunni) on the IMFDB discord, we changed IMFDB's rules (see [[IMFDB_Style_Guide|Style Guide]]) on titles that begin with "The"; instead of physically moving the titles to have "The" placed at their ends, we instead make use of a MediaWiki feature, the DEFAULTSORT magic word (see [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words MediaWiki] documentation), to fix their sortings. This way, the pages will be able to keep their actual real life titles (with "The" at the front), which makes wiki editing and other back end management easier. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 19:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
:I'm glad that Wuzh was able to respond already, and explain the bot we're running now to fix titles. I remember that we started doing titles the old way (with "the" moved to the end) in the old days before magic words on Wikis were a thing. I think you mentioned that some of your colleagues had trouble searching for titles in the early days of the site? This should fix things. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 01:57, 4 August 2023 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 01:57, 4 August 2023
Removing the link to old discussions. I don't want people digging through old discussions and bringing them up again. Sorry StanTheMan. I know you meant well. :) MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 23:18, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
- Fair enough, sir - no prob. ;) StanTheMan (talk) 19:00, 16 July 2016 (EDT)
2016 Discussions
Will be posting some nice pics of screen used guns soon. I saw PhoenixEnt over the weekend and it was nice. Got some great help from PhoenixEnt, Papac from Cinema Weaponry and Mike Tristano and a few others (but I had forgotten how much a hassle it is to set up backgrounds and studio photography of the guns. LOL. best regards, MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 20:45, 27 June 2016 (EDT)
- Awesome! Rather touched you left said remarks for me personally on my page, heh. :D In any event thanks loads, and glad to see ya back! (PS - Hope ya don't mind, but I left a link above to your older discussion page.) StanTheMan (talk) 01:55, 28 June 2016 (EDT)
- Lol, 'old timers'. I find that funny, then I remember it's been a half-dozen years since I first came on here.. Hard to believe. Anyway, there are a good few older folks around, though some only seem to pop in here and there. The images you're bringing in are awesome though, so there's that. StanTheMan (talk) 02:50, 30 June 2016 (EDT)
Current Screen used guns pics shot and uploaded
A Few Comments and Questions
Sorry, if I'm writing that the wrong way, you may move it wherever you want (just in case, I've noticed a section named "2016 Discussions"). The first thing I wanted to tell is just a random comment on an old discussion. I was searching for some old pictures in discussions and stumbled upon this one. Just to inform you - not only Violent Shit was not made by a 10 years old (director Andreas Schnaas was 21 during filming), it was professionally released in quite a few countries (including theatrically in native Germany) and even spawned a franchise of four movies and a remake so it may be as eligible as Razor Blade Smile or The Room (also it is closer to the latter, because movie is god-awful and is one of the worst I've seen and I've seen a lot). With that small nit-pick out of the way I wanted to ask three questions. The first one is: could you provide some information about these flamethrowers? I believe it can make a good fictional firearm page, especially since they were also seen handed by several people in Science of the Movies series. Secondly I wanted to ask your opinion on how to improve that for a possible page creation - I believe it could be used in many ways by both established users and newcomers alike and may save a lot of time and nerves for double-checking (made after re-watching two movies nearly in their entirety because I wasn't sure on firearms presence in both of them), useless page creation, etc. The third question is mostly out of curiosity - what is your opinion on using airsoft in independent productions? P.S. I'm from Ukraine and I'm 24 years old. Just in case. --Kloga (talk) 22:39, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
Hello
I am a big fan of the movie Virtuosity and was wondering if you had anything from it that you would be interested in selling? Hope to hear from you soon, and thank you for your time sir.
Charles Mineo
I don't own any weapons or props from Virtuosity. Most of those weapons were either sold to Cinema Weaponry (and ultimately converted back to mundane versions) or sold to Prop Store of London, never to be seen again. But if I see anything around, I'll keep your post in mind. MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 02:23, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
La Femme Nikita
I guess that in the first pic the lighting makes the receiver appear to be a different color. You can go ahead and make the edits. --Ben41 (talk) 04:44, 2 January 2017 (EST)
Colt Series 80 with Eagle Seal
Dear MoviePropMaster2008,
First off, let me say that I hope I'm asking this question in the right place/fashion. If I'm not apologies for any inconvenience it cuased.
I had a question about a picture you've uploaded of a Colt 1911A1 Series 80 that's been used multiple times around IMFDb, as is the semi-standard image for a 1911A1 with pearl grips. I'm inquiring about a specific feature on this gun that I have not seen on another firearm like it; the small stamping of what appears to be an American Eagle seal. I haven't seen a gun with a seal like this and was wondering if you knew how or why this gun was stamped with it. Just a curiosity, really.
Thank you so much for your time, I appreciate it. --Caldwellb734 (talk) 17:39, 4 February 2017 (EST)
- I don't know. I'll ask the guy I bought it from. I'll see if he knows. My pics are a combo of MY inventory and the inventory of friends in the business, like Cinema Weaponry, et. al so I don't know the history of all the screen used guns I photograph. Sometimes I photograph 'safe queens' aka unmodified weapons if I don't have a generic model to photograph. MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 15:29, 11 February 2017 (EST)
- That would be fantastic! Thank you! --Caldwellb734 (talk) 11:02, 18 March 2017 (EDT)
- I don't know. I'll ask the guy I bought it from. I'll see if he knows. My pics are a combo of MY inventory and the inventory of friends in the business, like Cinema Weaponry, et. al so I don't know the history of all the screen used guns I photograph. Sometimes I photograph 'safe queens' aka unmodified weapons if I don't have a generic model to photograph. MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 15:29, 11 February 2017 (EST)
Armorer Question
Hey man, I've got a question. Potential career options have been rolling around in my head, and armorer was one that crossed my mind. But someone told me you have to live in Hollywood to be one of those, which is very far away from where I live. Is this true, or do you have any advice in the field you can share? Thanks.--H3nry8adger1982 (talk) 08:54, 8 August 2017 (EDT)H3nry8adger1982
- Armorer is a dying breed though. Too many indie and low budget filmmakers are just buying their own cheap airsoft guns and putting the flash in later in CGI. Indies and low budget films is where MOST armorers cut their teeth on the job. But the most important point it, are you anywhere near there is film production? If you aren't, then the opportunities to actually do the job aren't there. I wouldn't move to L.A. if you don't have several plans you can put into place. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. FYI, a few months back, I went to the offices of ISS to talk shop and the head of the weapons department told me that he had just seen the 12th young man coming in for a job to be an assistant armorer that day. Yikes. Tons of young folks want to be armorers. But the business model is moving away from that. :( We had such a great time in the 80s and 90s but movies are mostly shooting overseas (thus they use the armorers that are in those countries) and there isn't enough work here. Sure, some guys are working all the time, but that's due to their connections, but even that is a fraction of what it used to be. hope this helps. MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 21:44, 9 August 2017 (EDT)
- I'm one of those kids who showed up at ISS, and I just wanted to let you know that you'll always have work with me if I make it as a director. Airsoft is fine in a pinch but will never beat that flash and smoke in the air. You guys do great work and I know a lot of people here appreciate it a great deal, I certainly do. --Caldwellb734 (talk) 11:50, 12 August 2017 (EDT)
Thanks man. For both the advice, and all your site contributions. :D --H3nry8adger1982 (talk) 09:25, 10 August 2017 (EDT)H3nry8adger1982
Dead Bang
Thanks. I appreciate that. --Ben41 (talk) 01:10, 17 September 2017 (EDT)
Day of the Dead 2008
I was just going by what the previous description on the page said --> A Bulgarian Arsenal AR rifle (Actually milled receiver AK47) with black synthetic foregrip, long flash hider and black synthetic Thumbhole Stock is used by Salazar (Nick Cannon) and Nina (AnnaLynne McCord). I still haven't quite perfected my AK-fu yet. Spartan198 (talk) 20:51, 11 January 2018 (EST)
Are the "FN LAR"s actually G1s?
I've been pondering over the identity of these two "FN LAR"s. The name "FN LAR" is a translation of "FN FAL", and doesn't seem to designate any particular special variant, just a synonym of FN FAL. The page (and some of the pages these two images are used on) seems to imply that these two rifles are early Belgian FN FAL models, but early FN FAL models have a distinctive prototype wooden forearm that is never seen again on any other models, and doesn't seem to be these two. From what I've heard, the ribbed metal handguard on FN FALs is a feature of the Austrian and German contract models of the FN FAL, and apparently only the Austrian and German contract FALs. I think that these two images are either West German G1s, or FALs with lots of West German G1 parts. (the muzzle device also seems to be correct for the German contract muzzle device, which didn't appear on any other models; the bipod also fits the description of the G1) --Wuzh (talk) 14:00, 26 January 2019 (EST)
- You're forgetting one thing. I'm not a gun museum. I photograph MOVIE weapons. The rifles were identified as LARs. Also Movie Armorers swap barrels, furniture out all the time. All my gun photos are of weapons in Motion Picture Armory collections. If people want exact historical examples of weapons, they can visit the NRA museum or check out Gun history books :) We use a lot of 'franken guns' which are weapons BUILT UP by armorers for the purposes of movie use. Hope this helps. :) But I will welcome help in writing an updated description for the rifles, but the rifles are movie inventory guns and thus they're relevant to the site. MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 19:01, 28 January 2019 (EST)
- I understand. It would be good to update the description and state that they are "in G1 configuration" or something, since original FN LARs look exactly like FN FALs, and don't have these metal foreends. Is that OK? I should also note the many of our current pages also mistakenly describes this metal foreend as an early FN FAL component, when I think it was in fact a special part intended for Germany and Austria (admittedly early because Germany and Austria are early adopters of the FN FAL), and was later applied to other FN FAL rifles. Real early FN FALs (using the prototype American T48 as an example) have wooden foreends, some of which have a prototype design. --Wuzh (talk) 13:30, 29 January 2019 (EST)
- You're forgetting one thing. I'm not a gun museum. I photograph MOVIE weapons. The rifles were identified as LARs. Also Movie Armorers swap barrels, furniture out all the time. All my gun photos are of weapons in Motion Picture Armory collections. If people want exact historical examples of weapons, they can visit the NRA museum or check out Gun history books :) We use a lot of 'franken guns' which are weapons BUILT UP by armorers for the purposes of movie use. Hope this helps. :) But I will welcome help in writing an updated description for the rifles, but the rifles are movie inventory guns and thus they're relevant to the site. MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 19:01, 28 January 2019 (EST)
HK416/417
Hi, man. Not sure if you do requests but is there any chance you could get a good pic of an HK416 and/or HK417?
Fixing up links to S&W 3913 photo
Hey there. Just fixed up redirects to the S&W 3913 to make it consistent. Ominae (talk) 08:04, 17 February 2020 (EST)
Zip Gun
I had add some information about Zip Guns, but, I didn't watch most of this movies/TV-series, so, I couldn't add more information than present on the pages for this movies and TV-series. Also, I don;t know English term for the Zip-Gun, that appeared in the movie Brother 2 (Brat 2). In Russia, for such guns used a slang term "Podzhiga" (поджига), but this term is using only in Russian language, that don't used in any other languages (for Ezample, Belarussian Language uses term "Prypyakanku" (Прыпяканку), Ukrainian term is "Samopal" (Самопал), the last one was imported from Ukrainian to Russian language among with several other Ukrainian loanwords in Russian language). Pyramid Silent (talk) 12:22, 5 March 2020 (EST)
RE: On the M1911 in Death on the Nile
Thank you for the information! That's very interesting. I never considered the fact these prop houses existed at a time when guns like P38s and original wartime manufactured M1911s were cheap and plentiful. Unlike pretty much all milsurp guns today... cries --PyramidHead (talk) 15:49, 16 September 2020 (EDT)
AMD-65 images
Hello MPM2008. I would like to ask, is one of the images of the AMD-65 below that you uploaded a photoshopped image? I compared the two images side by side and noted that they were fully identical in lighting and conditions, with their muzzle devices being their only difference. This leads me to suspect that one of them has a photoshopped muzzle device. I've noticed a lot of old and possibly photoshopped images on IMFDB that were not clearly marked as being photoshopped. I've discussed with commando552 about this before and he said that there are loads of photoshopped gun images online, even by firearm manufacturers; for now I just want to know more about these AMD-65 images. --Wuzh (talk) 00:34, 20 June 2021 (EDT)
- You realize you're asking about an image thats 13 years old right? Usually I only do things like fix scratches, dents, and obvious flaws. MOst of the most egregious franken guns are usually clearly noted, not only by me but by other people as well. Now this was 13 years ago, but I recall having the actual gun on a plexi stand and just screwing the various muzzle brakes on and off and just taking another pic with identical lighting. Not sure if THAT gun was connected to that memory, but if you want I can always track down a screen used AMD and take another pic ;) But who knows? It may have been just a quick photoshop job that missed the usual 'description', or it was legit two images of the same gun with just the muzzle brakes swapped. I have a clear plexi stand with back lighting that I used for ALL of the white background gun pics. Very rarely do I have to make do with something else. I will look into it. Another question. WHY the sudden interest? There are obviously other more important issues with IMFDB than that one issue. I have to track down some 'better' examples of some of the firearms for photography, but since the explosion of annoying encounters with young foreign 'know it alls' you've probably noticed that MOST of the actual industry armorers have left. I just 'love' arguing with teenagers from the UK or Russia ..... But thanks for the interest. I'll try to track down the original files from 13(!!) years ago and figure out what happened :) MoviePropMaster2008 (talk) 03:49, 21 June 2021 (EDT)
It's OK. I have a pet peeve against photoshopped firearm images that don't explicitly mark themselves as being photoshopped, because there was this firearm illustration project on the internet called the Small Arms Illustrated Project that produced a lot of photoshopped firearm images that created tons of misinformation about firearm models (the fake IMBEL IA2 models for example). It makes me cringe everytime someone puts up one of their obviously photoshopped guns in some forum thread or social media post without questioning.
About the AMD-65 images, it's honestly not that big of a deal. The details (to me, at least) seem to be accurate enough to reality that they shouldn't mislead the viewers. In any case, thanks for the reply, and sorry for my own late reply. --Wuzh (talk) 02:52, 30 July 2021 (EDT)
Re:Did something change in how we title movies?
This page move was a project I have been planning after I was promoted to the Administrator position last year by site owner bunni. With the agreement of other site admins (including Bunni) on the IMFDB discord, we changed IMFDB's rules (see Style Guide) on titles that begin with "The"; instead of physically moving the titles to have "The" placed at their ends, we instead make use of a MediaWiki feature, the DEFAULTSORT magic word (see MediaWiki documentation), to fix their sortings. This way, the pages will be able to keep their actual real life titles (with "The" at the front), which makes wiki editing and other back end management easier. --Wuzh (talk) 19:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- I'm glad that Wuzh was able to respond already, and explain the bot we're running now to fix titles. I remember that we started doing titles the old way (with "the" moved to the end) in the old days before magic words on Wikis were a thing. I think you mentioned that some of your colleagues had trouble searching for titles in the early days of the site? This should fix things. -MT2008 (talk) 01:57, 4 August 2023 (UTC)