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Talk:The Siege of Jadotville: Difference between revisions
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There appears to be a Walther MPL or similar SMG used by one of the rebels attacking the company. I will upload a screenshot when possible, but the time stamp is at 1:26:59-ish. This would be anachronistic as the MPL was not produced until 1963, while the events in this film took place in 1961. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 23:24, 15 October 2016 (EDT) | There appears to be a Walther MPL or similar SMG used by one of the rebels attacking the company. I will upload a screenshot when possible, but the time stamp is at 1:26:59-ish. This would be anachronistic as the MPL was not produced until 1963, while the events in this film took place in 1961. [[User:DeadpoolDeadcool|DeadpoolDeadcool]] ([[User talk:DeadpoolDeadcool|talk]]) 23:24, 15 October 2016 (EDT) | ||
It's a Franchi LF-57 which actually was used by Congo/Katanga --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] ([[User talk:AdAstra2009|talk]]) 04:57, 16 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
:::AdAstra is correct, it's a LF-57. There were also a couple of Vigneron SMGs in this movie.-- [[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] ([[User talk:Phillb36|talk]]) 07:34, 16 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
== "A Bren should do it"? == | |||
Anyone else find it odd the sniper chooses to use an open sight, open bolt Bren instead of his No4 Mk1(T)? --[[User:Maxman|Maxman]] ([[User talk:Maxman|talk]]) 09:06, 16 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
:I was thinking the same thing. The two guns are in the same caliber (.303 British), and, if anything, the sights on the Bren are considerably worse than the high-range scope on the Enfield. Does anyone know why this would be done? --[[User:Caldwellb734|Caldwellb734]] ([[User talk:Caldwellb734|talk]]) 14:37, 17 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
If anything, they should actually have started using the MAG 57s. Perhaps the Bren is a heavy gun and is more accurate than the Enfield, even a scoped Enfield isn't that accurate compared to other bolt action rifles of the era. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:43, 17 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
==Use of older rifles== | |||
Also, I am kinda surprised at the surplus of older rifles being used by the Irish despite this being 1961. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:45, 17 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
:Sgt. Prendergast shared your same opinion in the film. Is this company's being issued obsolete firearms historically accurate? --[[User:Caldwellb734|Caldwellb734]] ([[User talk:Caldwellb734|talk]]) 21:20, 17 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
::It's accurate. There are photos on the internet of the Irish forces in the Congo, and the soldiers are indeed using Lee-Enfields, Brens, and Vickers. The Irish did have FN FALs, but only a few had been issued by the time the battle portrayed in the movie occurred.-- [[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] ([[User talk:Phillb36|talk]]) 22:05, 17 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
oh yes it is accurate the defense forces still had the bren mark 4 used by the reserve defense forces up until 2008 the fn fal was never abandoned it just got recycled as a designated marksman rifle | |||
--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 13:57, 18 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
::I think the only thing about the FALs that bothered me was in several instances, they racked the charging handles to chamber rounds during moments when there should already have been a round chambered, like when Quinlan gave his rifle to Prendergast during a white flag meet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:16, 19 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
:::One could argue they were checking their brass to make sure the guns were chambered, but it was likely done for dramatic effect. Everybody loves that "Cha-CHK!" --[[User:Caldwellb734|Caldwellb734]] ([[User talk:Caldwellb734|talk]]) 15:22, 19 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
:::It wasn't for brass checking because no one was looking to see brass. It was for dramatic effect. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:43, 19 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
they included this as it sounded and looked "cool" --[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 19:32, 19 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
== Quinlan's Sidearm. == | |||
I believe Quinlan carries a Hi Power as his sidearm. It is seen unholstered a couple times. --[[User:Westernman1987|Westernman1987]] ([[User talk:Westernman1987|talk]]) 12:05, 17 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
:I can confirm this, don't have screenshots yet but I did see Quinlan carrying a Hi Power.--[[User:Caldwellb734|Caldwellb734]] ([[User talk:Caldwellb734|talk]]) 14:37, 17 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
::I think one of the mercs used a Hi-Power as well.-- [[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] ([[User talk:Phillb36|talk]]) 21:18, 17 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
==FALs== | |||
I am not entirely versed in the history of the FAL in the UK. I know the British uses the semi-auto only L1A1 SLR, but what about the Irish who are literally next door? Did they adopt the full auto FAL or because they are so close to England, adopt the L1A1 as well? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:36, 18 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
:As far as I know, Irish Defence Forces adopted Belgian FN FAL 50.00 version in 1961. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 12:51, 18 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
:Not sure how true this is, but had an Irish fellow tell me they tried to limit what they got from the British for the old grudge reason. I honestly wouldn't be suprised if they bypassed the L1A1 and went with the Belgian FALs. Again, pure speculation from one old Irish guy who was not a fan of the English.[[User:Zombiedrd|Zombiedrd]] ([[User talk:Zombiedrd|talk]]) 12:51, 18 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
this is true the irish fn was capable of full auto had an ENERGA anti-tank rifle grenade sight attached to the gas plug which can be seen in some of the film stills--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 19:28, 19 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
::My guess is that these rifles are probably actually [https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/4a/b3/66/4ab366327dd3839c5488ac609cf93afc.jpg South African R1s]. These rifles have the plastic handguard and wood type C stock which is typical of the R1s, and the R1s were also fitted with the grenade sight gas plug (not the earliest ones though, these ended up being reissued to police). I don't think South Africa used the ENERGA though, they had their own grenade but the sight is the same. This is filmed in South Africa after all, so that is also what would be most available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 07:59, 20 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
==Missing Weapons== | |||
A Franchi LF-57, Sten Gun, a couple of Vigneron SMGs, and Mauser rifles are also seen in this movie. Will they be added to the page?-- [[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] ([[User talk:Phillb36|talk]]) 15:58, 5 November 2016 (EDT) | |||
:You could do it yourself; editing a page on IMFDB doesn't require black magic.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:53, 5 November 2016 (EDT) | |||
==Carl Gustav M/45== | |||
Just read an interesting article about the making of the movie/history behind it and there was a brief mention that the Carl Gustav M/45s used in the movie were found by the film's amourer in storage in South Africa and were period authentic including a claim that one of the weapons matched the serial #s of weapons actually used in the battle. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 19:29, 9 December 2016 (EST) | |||
Latest revision as of 23:12, 28 July 2023
Walther MPL
There appears to be a Walther MPL or similar SMG used by one of the rebels attacking the company. I will upload a screenshot when possible, but the time stamp is at 1:26:59-ish. This would be anachronistic as the MPL was not produced until 1963, while the events in this film took place in 1961. DeadpoolDeadcool (talk) 23:24, 15 October 2016 (EDT)
It's a Franchi LF-57 which actually was used by Congo/Katanga --AdAstra2009 (talk) 04:57, 16 October 2016 (EDT)
"A Bren should do it"?
Anyone else find it odd the sniper chooses to use an open sight, open bolt Bren instead of his No4 Mk1(T)? --Maxman (talk) 09:06, 16 October 2016 (EDT)
- I was thinking the same thing. The two guns are in the same caliber (.303 British), and, if anything, the sights on the Bren are considerably worse than the high-range scope on the Enfield. Does anyone know why this would be done? --Caldwellb734 (talk) 14:37, 17 October 2016 (EDT)
If anything, they should actually have started using the MAG 57s. Perhaps the Bren is a heavy gun and is more accurate than the Enfield, even a scoped Enfield isn't that accurate compared to other bolt action rifles of the era. Excalibur01 (talk) 15:43, 17 October 2016 (EDT)
Use of older rifles
Also, I am kinda surprised at the surplus of older rifles being used by the Irish despite this being 1961. Excalibur01 (talk) 15:45, 17 October 2016 (EDT)
- Sgt. Prendergast shared your same opinion in the film. Is this company's being issued obsolete firearms historically accurate? --Caldwellb734 (talk) 21:20, 17 October 2016 (EDT)
- It's accurate. There are photos on the internet of the Irish forces in the Congo, and the soldiers are indeed using Lee-Enfields, Brens, and Vickers. The Irish did have FN FALs, but only a few had been issued by the time the battle portrayed in the movie occurred.-- Phillb36 (talk) 22:05, 17 October 2016 (EDT)
oh yes it is accurate the defense forces still had the bren mark 4 used by the reserve defense forces up until 2008 the fn fal was never abandoned it just got recycled as a designated marksman rifle --Seekerdude (talk) 13:57, 18 October 2016 (EDT)
- I think the only thing about the FALs that bothered me was in several instances, they racked the charging handles to chamber rounds during moments when there should already have been a round chambered, like when Quinlan gave his rifle to Prendergast during a white flag meet. Excalibur01 (talk) 11:16, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
- One could argue they were checking their brass to make sure the guns were chambered, but it was likely done for dramatic effect. Everybody loves that "Cha-CHK!" --Caldwellb734 (talk) 15:22, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
- It wasn't for brass checking because no one was looking to see brass. It was for dramatic effect. Excalibur01 (talk) 17:43, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
- I think the only thing about the FALs that bothered me was in several instances, they racked the charging handles to chamber rounds during moments when there should already have been a round chambered, like when Quinlan gave his rifle to Prendergast during a white flag meet. Excalibur01 (talk) 11:16, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
they included this as it sounded and looked "cool" --Seekerdude (talk) 19:32, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
Quinlan's Sidearm.
I believe Quinlan carries a Hi Power as his sidearm. It is seen unholstered a couple times. --Westernman1987 (talk) 12:05, 17 October 2016 (EDT)
- I can confirm this, don't have screenshots yet but I did see Quinlan carrying a Hi Power.--Caldwellb734 (talk) 14:37, 17 October 2016 (EDT)
FALs
I am not entirely versed in the history of the FAL in the UK. I know the British uses the semi-auto only L1A1 SLR, but what about the Irish who are literally next door? Did they adopt the full auto FAL or because they are so close to England, adopt the L1A1 as well? Excalibur01 (talk) 12:36, 18 October 2016 (EDT)
- As far as I know, Irish Defence Forces adopted Belgian FN FAL 50.00 version in 1961. Greg-Z (talk) 12:51, 18 October 2016 (EDT)
- Not sure how true this is, but had an Irish fellow tell me they tried to limit what they got from the British for the old grudge reason. I honestly wouldn't be suprised if they bypassed the L1A1 and went with the Belgian FALs. Again, pure speculation from one old Irish guy who was not a fan of the English.Zombiedrd (talk) 12:51, 18 October 2016 (EDT)
this is true the irish fn was capable of full auto had an ENERGA anti-tank rifle grenade sight attached to the gas plug which can be seen in some of the film stills--Seekerdude (talk) 19:28, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
- My guess is that these rifles are probably actually South African R1s. These rifles have the plastic handguard and wood type C stock which is typical of the R1s, and the R1s were also fitted with the grenade sight gas plug (not the earliest ones though, these ended up being reissued to police). I don't think South Africa used the ENERGA though, they had their own grenade but the sight is the same. This is filmed in South Africa after all, so that is also what would be most available. --commando552 (talk) 07:59, 20 October 2016 (EDT)
Missing Weapons
A Franchi LF-57, Sten Gun, a couple of Vigneron SMGs, and Mauser rifles are also seen in this movie. Will they be added to the page?-- Phillb36 (talk) 15:58, 5 November 2016 (EDT)
- You could do it yourself; editing a page on IMFDB doesn't require black magic.--AgentGumby (talk) 16:53, 5 November 2016 (EDT)
Carl Gustav M/45
Just read an interesting article about the making of the movie/history behind it and there was a brief mention that the Carl Gustav M/45s used in the movie were found by the film's amourer in storage in South Africa and were period authentic including a claim that one of the weapons matched the serial #s of weapons actually used in the battle. --Charon68 (talk) 19:29, 9 December 2016 (EST)