Talk:Bioshock Infinite: Difference between revisions
Talk:Bioshock Infinite: Difference between revisions - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
Talk:Bioshock Infinite: Difference between revisions
I was watching the trailer for the motorized patriot, and one of the guys mentions that it carries a Gatling gun called the peppermill, which Booker can apparently pick up and use as a heavy weapon after destroying a patriot. He also says that the only way to get the peppermill is from a destroyed patriot. Is there anyone who could provide screencaps of this gun? -Desertrat17
I was watching the trailer for the motorized patriot, and one of the guys mentions that it carries a Gatling gun called the peppermill, which Booker can apparently pick up and use as a heavy weapon after destroying a patriot. He also says that the only way to get the peppermill is from a destroyed patriot. Is there anyone who could provide screencaps of this gun? -Desertrat17
== Beast of America Trailer. ==
I am rather pleased with seeing the guns in this one, lots of detail have been added to the weapons. I'll summarize what i've noticed so far.
The Mauser C96 has a cartridge visible in the chamber upon ejecting spent ones, proper hammer movements added. The Shotgun's hammer visibly changes, still unsure if it strikes forward, hard to see in such a short clip. The Submachine Gun now ejects spent cartridges upon firing, it clearly did not do so before. And the Semi-Automatic Rifle is seen without Scope, maybe a hint at weapon upgrading.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]]
==Unknown Gun==
I'm looking at the gun closely and it seems to resemble the Paddywacker/Colt 1851. I compared the two guns and the barrel on the unknown one looks similar to the 1851. [[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]]
==SKS?==
Saw this during the "False Shepherd" trailer. It looks like the SKS but has one really odd attachment to it (I'm guessing it's either a Silencer or a barrel extender) [[User:SeanWolf]]
[[File:Bioshock_Infinite_Sniper.jpg]]
==Walkthroughs Up==
Release is tomorrow, but walkthroughs are up on YouTube. Looks like the turret guns use a water cooled machine gun. The design is really generic and all silver, so it doesn't look like any specific model. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:32, 25 March 2013 (EDT)
I thought the turrets looked a lot like the Vickers Machine Gun, though i haven't taken the time to examinate closely. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 08:43, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
==Anachronistic?==
Because this game seems to take place in an alternate universe, should any of the guns like the M1 Carbine like rifle be even considered anachronistic? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:35, 25 March 2013 (EDT)
: They're intentionally anachronistic. The game is full of unusual bits, especially music from 50-70 years in the future (like "Personal Jesus" and "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun") being written earlier than they really were. It's all one huge alternate universe mashup, made worse by the constant tears in the fabric of reality changing things at random or causing people and objects to transport to different dimensions. So I would include simply a note at the start of the page mentioning that many of the firearms are anachronistic or "incorrectly portrayed", but that it's an alternate universe and thus not actually an error by the developers. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 03:13, 27 March 2013 (EDT)
: Reading the updated article, I find the tone frankly a bit much. The weapons are constantly listed with "incorrect" or "useless" features, which seems pointless as the weapons are fictional guns only based on real weapons. Saying that the Paddywhacker's top-break mechanism is "incorrect" is meaningless when it's just a magnum-level revolver that looks like a Colt 1851. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 00:59, 5 April 2013 (EDT)
::It's incorrect because the combination of features make no sense in terms of how the weapon is actually shown operating. The loading lever / extractor rod on the Paddywhacker ''has no function'' because of the frame that renders it inaccessible. The top-break mechanism ''is'' incorrect for a Colt 1851, that's a straightforward fact. Pulling the 'it's fictional which means it doesn't have to make any sense' card is pretty silly. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:44, 10 April 2013 (EDT)
:: The point is that it's NOT a Colt 1851, though. It's not meant to be a Colt 1851, merely to look like it. The designers intentionally made it "wrong" because it's not SUPPOSED to be that particular revolver, just taking its design cues. The game takes place in an alternate universe, so anything goes as long as it doesn't do something impossible by the standards of that universe. Just like the Broadsider is a Broadsider, not a Mauser C96. It looks identical to the Mauser C96 of our universe, but it's not the same gun. That's the whole point of calling it an alternate universe. You may as well criticize the Rolsten Reciprocating Repeater for not really existing in our world. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:31, 13 April 2013 (EDT)
:::Yes, and the result of the design cues they took for the Paddywhacker is a weapon which makes no mechanical sense; they've even left the notches in the cylinder where the percussion cap nipples would be, and if we're arguing this is style rather than lack of knowledge then I'd like you to explain how a revolver fires a barrel at 12 o'clock when the top two rounds in the cylinder are at 11 and 1. And the Broadsider is not some magical fantasy weapon, it's a Mauser with a useless lever stuck on the side, a hilariously spikey rear sight and some metal milled out around the magwell for no apparent reason. We're not scientists documenting some ''actual'' alternate universe where these things really exist, we're looking at designs created by people in ''this'' universe. These are simply design errors caused by not bothering to figure out how or if the designs would actually work. You might as well say the Triple R isn't violating the laws of thermodynamics with that red-hot shroud on a stone-cold barrel because maybe fundamental principles of heat transfer are different in Columbia. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:54, 13 April 2013 (EDT)
::::It's not like Call of Duty: Black Ops which bizarrely features real world weapons completely out of sync for when they were developed and calls them "secret research prototypes" rather than do any research at all and use ''actual'' prototype and special purpose weapons from that period. This is a science fiction game with science fiction guns which don't belong in our world. Pointing out that "this weapon is OBVIOUSLY a C96 Mauser with some cosmetic alterations, look at how dumb game developers are" is pretty pointless when it's from a game about reality shredding apart. My personal favorite is pointing out that the sniper rifle is a mishmash of components... then says that the magazine holds an "incorrect" number of rounds, as though we've ever seen this rifle before. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] ([[User talk:Atypicaloracle|talk]]) 00:36, 29 April 2013 (EDT)
:::::Yes, it's a mishmash of components from two rifles so closely related that one was the subject of a successful patent infringement lawsuit by the other and both have the same capacity and loading method. And it's not that the C96 has cosmetic alterations, it's that the cosmetic alterations have no obvious mechanical purpose. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:26, 29 April 2013 (EDT)
Chitoryu, according to your logic, because this game is fiction, we cannot state inaccuracies about weapons. Modern Warfare 3 is also fiction. The Russians have never actually lead an attack on U.S. soil. We still, however state inaccuracies of in-game weapons that are clearly modeled after real-life weapons. The guns in BI are clearly based off real-life weapons. If we followed your logic, than the weapons on the page would have to be changed "Columbian Designed Pistol," "Columbian Designed Revolver," "Columbian Designed Carbine," etc. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 22:51, 29 April 2013 (EDT)
: No, that's not how logic works. Modern Warfare 3 is fiction, but it's also meant to be set in a universe that is almost identical to the real world, where everything advanced identically except for what's necessary to push the plot forward. BioShock Infinite is not only in an alternate timeline, but it has MASSIVE changes from reality in many aspects, including technology. It makes no pretensions of realism or similarity to the real world. It can get away with lack of realism because it doesn't try to say "This is reality unless otherwise noted." [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 20:37, 18 August 2013 (EDT)
::Eh, I've heard someone on GameFAQs argue that perhaps IW has custom guns that work exactly like the ones in the game, so all apparent errors are actually not errors. Pulling "It's fiction, it doesn't have to make sense" is generally not a good way to handle apparent errors. There is no stated aspect of the setting which requires a cartridge revolver to have percussion cap nipples and the rounded rear cylinder of a percussion revolver, nothing that explains what the structure under the barrel is supposed to be or why Booker never uses it for anything, etc. Since this is also a revolver that fires with no chamber in line with the barrel, it is fair to conclude that these are errors from a lack of firearms knowledge rather than deliberate alterations.
::Your reasoning is really just "it's magic." It's one thing to show a weapon which is both fictional and mechanically sound, but one which is just a real gun with weird, nonsensical alterations or bits stuck on that would break it isn't the same thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:38, 19 August 2013 (EDT)
I still do not understand, that in the game makes Colt Navy. He already in 1912 was incredibly outdated. And the appearance of this museum exhibit in the Rapture, in 1959, looks '' very strange ''. And when Jack at the end of the second episode, in the airplane, pulls out this ancient with stupid gilding - for me it was one big facepalm. [[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 14 January 2015 (EDT)
I still think that the general tone of this article is unnecessarily condescending and snarky and, frankly, points out errors that are not so. For instance, saying that the revolver's design is wrong because the loading lever is improperly placed and the cylinder strangely has nipples for percussion caps is perfectly valid. But saying it is incorrect for being break action is fallacious as it IS NOT an 1851 Navy. It is a revolver that resembles, stylistically, an 1851 Navy, but is very obviously not one nor does it claim to be one. It is a fictional weapon. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with the Sniper Rifle so far as I can find. In the story, it is presumed that Columbia manufactures their own weapons, so what is wrong with having a Mauser action rifle that is not identical to a Mauser or Springfield? Variations like this appear (licensed and unlicensed) in real life all the time (magazine-fed M1 Garands, the Colt variant of the B.A.R. etc.) This goes for the C-96 as well. The only thing particularly wrong with it is the rear site being spikey as all hell. The lever on the side is not shown to have a function, but that hardly means it can't have one. The M1 Carbine in game is a gun BASED on the design of the M1 Carbine. To claim that it is impossible to have one chambered in a round other than .30 Carbine ignores reality as this too happens in REAL LIFE with foreign copies of weapons. The shotgun is a mess, sure, as is the peppermill and the Triple R's heat shield glowing without the barrel is also problematic. However, pointing out "flaws" that aren't flaws makes the article sound elitist and nitpicky. [[User:Greaser350|Greaser350]] ([[User talk:Greaser350|talk]]) 2 April 2015 (EDT)
:Again, this is just trying to gloss over the issues by starting from your conclusion that the game must be doing something right, despite there being no clear evidence this is the case.
:*Given the revolver in the game ''fires with no chamber in line with the barrel'', having an incorrect method of loading is the least of its problems. Most actual top-break revolvers have a release latch to open the gun (it's not exactly optional) while the in-game gun has no method of staying closed, therefore it is an incorrect alteration to the existing design rather than a new complete design.
:*It's hard to have a detachable, perfectly flush magazine on a rifle that doesn't appear to have a magazine release.
:*The lever on the C96 has no in-game function and no obvious mechanical purpose. Supposing it has a purpose even though we have no idea what that might be is not how you evaluate evidence.
:*Trying to put 7.62mm NATO through an M1 Carbine would totally destroy it, it's twice as powerful as .30 Carbine. There's a reason the M1 Garand which uses a similarly powerful round is twice the weight of the M1 Carbine.
:Designing fictional firearms properly requires you have some knowledge of the workings of real ones, otherwise you get levers that do nothing and mechanical impossibilities that lack vital components to function. The mistakes in this game are like having a scene in a movie where a character changes gears using his car's handbrake: sure, ''maybe'' he has some special car where the handbrake is actually a gear lever, but parsimony (the principle that the theory requiring the fewest additional terms is the best) makes the best explanation that it's an error. If we were studying a case where a real person actually had changed gears with his car's handbrake we would have to assume it was somehow possible, but we're dealing with fiction here, so we don't. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 16:00, 26 May 2015 (EDT)
:: That concept-art pistol for Bioshock Infinite:[http://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/558041_rqzacv4kthjwr5ue_l2d5cmvr.jpg]. I personally believe, that the lever on the Mauser - mutated fire selector from M712 Schnellfeuer; although lever and nohow not used. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 28 May 2015
:::I figured it was supposed to be some kind of magazine release (it does go to where the mag release is on the Schnellfeuer, but on the wrong side) but since Booker never hits it it's just a big pointless lever. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 19:48, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::::This is really work of magazine release, in the form of a lever (!). Watch carefully - at '''0:12''' Booker pushes the lever, and magazine released:https://youtu.be/TLEPpUEzynY --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 30 May 2015
Returning to the sniper rifle. By studying it, I want to say that it is a lot based on [[M1917 Enfield]]. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 15:01, 25 September 2015 (UTC+2)
So I [http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/864963521020538740/3CE582AFDCD59BAD459598230817888802997DFB/ snapped a picture] of the Carbine's world model. Definitely a garand derivative. My gut wants to say it's an M1 carbine, and the page says it's an M14. The magazine doesn't seem to look big enough to be 7.62x51mm and it looks too big to be .30 carbine. Also features an ambidextrous charging handle. Part of the reload animation shows a round in the chamber, so I'll try and grab a screenshot of that next time I play. Might help with identification, I guess. After I finish my first playthrough, I'll go through and snap pictures of all the weapons if anyone hasn't done so already. I have everything maxed so everything will look all pretty. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 10:52, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
:I'd say M1 carbine as well. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 10:55, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
: Definitely agree after taking a closer look. It's easiest at the beginning of the fair when you have all the carnival games you can play. There's a guy using a carbine at one of the shooting galleries, and you can see its size and the magazine size compared to the man holding it.
== Sniper Rifle = Kar98k, not 1903 Springfield ==
Check out the upper handguard on the sniper rifle in Bioshock: Infinite. Clearly that of a Kar98k, not a Springfield 1903. Additionally, the rear sights match that of the Kar98k. There are no discernible features on the sniper that resemble a 1903, other than the generic-looking buttstock. (Just to mention:) The front sights are enfield-style, which is odd. EDIT: I've changed the page to represent this.
== C96 Appearance Theory ==
Now the C96 is my favorite gun ever, so I sorta got hyped when I saw that it would be included in game.
Regarding how it's a weird hybrid of the base model and the M172, I think it could be an American made copy of it. At the turn of the century, the military tested it and bought several examples. So maybe in Columbia's universe, a few of them found their way into the city and were copied with a modified design.
Since Columbia is a super ultra nationalist, xenophobic city, I doubt they would decide to arm their military and police forces with a non American weapon, especially when it would involve giving money to the vile Germans.
On another note, if they wanted an American pistol, the Colt Model 1900 would've been a good choice. All American, of course and existed at the time. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 09:43, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
== Why ZK-383? ==
I called to the game page, and was very surprised when I saw that the submachine gun now declared ZK-383 model. Yes, he has something in common with it, but the game world is still built on the model of Lanchester Mk. I model with the addition of the features of ZK-383.
:Yeah, I thought that too initially, but if you look at the stock and back of the receiver on the advertisement in the first image, it's much closer to the ZK than the Lancester. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:33, 20 January 2014 (EST)
== Colt Navy ==
In my opinion, the game is used Colt 1851 Cartridge Conversion, because he shoots metallic cartridges.
:The problem is that the one in the game has no loading gate, and the cylinder of the cartridge conversion is a different shape:
:[[Image:1851Navy.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt 1851 Navy - .36]]
:[[Image:Colt1851cartridge.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt 1851 Navy with Richards-Mason cartridge conversion - .38 Long Colt.]]
:[[Image:BioshockInfinite-Colt-2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|You can see here that the rear of the cylinder is curved rather than squared-off, and still has the recesses where the nipples for fitting the percussion caps should be...]]
:[[Image:BioshockInfinite-Colt-3.jpg|thumb|600px|none|...and here you can see the frame of the revolver is symmetrical, with no loading gate.]]
:It ''should'' be a cartridge conversion, but it's not, it's a percussion cap model that takes metallic cartridges anyway.[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:58, 12 December 2014 (EST)
== Thompson M1928A1 ==
Thompson M1928A1 in the game is a simplified model period of World War II, because:
1. Barrel without of cooling fins;
2. Simple unregulated rear sight
[[File:M1928A1.jpeg|300px]]
[[File:M1928A1 back.jpeg|300px]]
[[File:Smgworldrapture bsi.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Tommy-Gun in the Rapture. Note the absence of cooling fins on the barrel; and a simplified rear sight in the "L" - style]]
== Winchester shotgun ==
Also I have a suspicion that the shotgun is not M1887, but the M1901 (only without butt).
Because:
1. It also has a short barrel
2. In the game, he officially produced a weapon, not a homemade sawn-off shotgun.
:Short barrel isn't indicative of an M1901. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:21, 26 December 2014 (EST)
:I agree. Simply, many people claimed that the shotgun in the game - short barrel M1901. [[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 26 December 2014 (EST)
::I'll dig through my screenshots when I get home and see what the lever on it looks like, but I don't currently see anything about it that wouldn't belong equally on an 1887. It's a pisspoor rendition of any 1887 / 1901 configuration since it looks like they thought the magazine tube was a ramrod like it was a blunderbuss or something. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 15:46, 26 December 2014 (EST)
== Why in the game has no conventional bolt action rifles? ==
Why in the game is not normal bolt actions rifles? It's the most common weapon at the time. Especially strange against the background of the images in the game M1903 Springfield; and the availability of hybrid sniper rifle. But usually a simple bolt action rifle in the game not, and this is very strange!
: It's probably because Colombia is supposed to be the "City of the future" so they focused of bringing self repeating rifles, as much as I'd love to use a Springfield without a scope. --[[User:RedRobinAlpha|RedRobinAlpha]] ([[User talk:RedRobinAlpha|talk]]) 11:34, 03 April 2015 (GMT)
== Grenade launcher ==
In the article there was no grenade launcher (aka 'Pig Flak'), so I added a description.
This concept art, incidentally, confirmed my assumption that the "Pig Flak" based on the Milkor MGL: [http://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/558041_23dkxkxfh04rdsdlbrvq6n2kv.jpg] --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 21:09, 17 September 2015 (UTC+2)
Can someone tell if the Shotgun has it's shells loaded into the barrel, instead of the magazine, it seems like so to me? I think watching the actual 15-minute demo will be better than looking at images: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEBwKO4RFOU
Go to 9:12 into the video and there are two reloadings in a row.
Edit: Forgot to sign my post, sorry.--Z008MJ 06:28, 6 February 2012 (CST)
No, I think he is putting them in the tube. On a Model 1887 the loading port is immediately beneath the chamber and accessed through the ejection port (as seen here, he puts the first two in the tube and last one in the chamber). Can't make it out that clearly, but he seems to be pushing the shells quite deep into the action, rather than into the barrel which is at the top. --commando552 08:32, 6 February 2012 (CST)
Thanks, i checked again and notice i mistook the beginning of the barrel for a shell being inserted into it. He reloads rather fast. Although you are correct, he pushes them too deep for the barrel. Thanks a lot, you made my year, it would have been bugging me forever otherwise.--Z008MJ 10:02, 6 February 2012 (CST)
Colt 1851 Navy???
I'm not sure if that IS a Colt Navy. In a OXM (Official Xbox Magazine) article, not sure which issue it was, on the game, it looks like there was a lever-action thing on the grip of the gun. So it might not be the Colt Navy. User:SeanWolf
I just looked through several images of it and found nothing that looked like a lever-action mechanism. Besides, it isn't handled like one either, but instead as a typical revolver. And no lever-action pistols had cylinders. Can you find your specific image? Z008MJ 12:57, 24 May 2012 (CDT)
Here's the link to the pic -> [1] <- It does look lie there is a lever on it
I admit it does resemble that, but it is hard to tell, it could be a custom extended trigger grip. After all, he doesn't perform a lever-action upon shooting. Also, it looks like it could be attached to the stock, which means you couldn't move it. Besides, that is not an in-game image, and shouldn't count anyway, unless it was an entirely different weapon. I think we need more images to judge properly, or you will have to wait for someone better than me to give an opinion of it.--Z008MJ 07:25, 25 May 2012 (CDT)
Peppermill Gatling Gun
I was watching the trailer for the motorized patriot, and one of the guys mentions that it carries a Gatling gun called the peppermill, which Booker can apparently pick up and use as a heavy weapon after destroying a patriot. He also says that the only way to get the peppermill is from a destroyed patriot. Is there anyone who could provide screencaps of this gun? -Desertrat17
Beast of America Trailer.
I am rather pleased with seeing the guns in this one, lots of detail have been added to the weapons. I'll summarize what i've noticed so far.
The Mauser C96 has a cartridge visible in the chamber upon ejecting spent ones, proper hammer movements added. The Shotgun's hammer visibly changes, still unsure if it strikes forward, hard to see in such a short clip. The Submachine Gun now ejects spent cartridges upon firing, it clearly did not do so before. And the Semi-Automatic Rifle is seen without Scope, maybe a hint at weapon upgrading.--Z008MJ
Unknown Gun
I'm looking at the gun closely and it seems to resemble the Paddywacker/Colt 1851. I compared the two guns and the barrel on the unknown one looks similar to the 1851. SeanWolf
SKS?
Saw this during the "False Shepherd" trailer. It looks like the SKS but has one really odd attachment to it (I'm guessing it's either a Silencer or a barrel extender) User:SeanWolf
Walkthroughs Up
Release is tomorrow, but walkthroughs are up on YouTube. Looks like the turret guns use a water cooled machine gun. The design is really generic and all silver, so it doesn't look like any specific model. Chitoryu12 (talk) 18:32, 25 March 2013 (EDT)
I thought the turrets looked a lot like the Vickers Machine Gun, though i haven't taken the time to examinate closely. Z008MJ (talk) 08:43, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
Anachronistic?
Because this game seems to take place in an alternate universe, should any of the guns like the M1 Carbine like rifle be even considered anachronistic? Excalibur01 (talk) 23:35, 25 March 2013 (EDT)
They're intentionally anachronistic. The game is full of unusual bits, especially music from 50-70 years in the future (like "Personal Jesus" and "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun") being written earlier than they really were. It's all one huge alternate universe mashup, made worse by the constant tears in the fabric of reality changing things at random or causing people and objects to transport to different dimensions. So I would include simply a note at the start of the page mentioning that many of the firearms are anachronistic or "incorrectly portrayed", but that it's an alternate universe and thus not actually an error by the developers. Chitoryu12 (talk) 03:13, 27 March 2013 (EDT)
Reading the updated article, I find the tone frankly a bit much. The weapons are constantly listed with "incorrect" or "useless" features, which seems pointless as the weapons are fictional guns only based on real weapons. Saying that the Paddywhacker's top-break mechanism is "incorrect" is meaningless when it's just a magnum-level revolver that looks like a Colt 1851. Chitoryu12 (talk) 00:59, 5 April 2013 (EDT)
It's incorrect because the combination of features make no sense in terms of how the weapon is actually shown operating. The loading lever / extractor rod on the Paddywhacker has no function because of the frame that renders it inaccessible. The top-break mechanism is incorrect for a Colt 1851, that's a straightforward fact. Pulling the 'it's fictional which means it doesn't have to make any sense' card is pretty silly. Evil Tim (talk) 11:44, 10 April 2013 (EDT)
The point is that it's NOT a Colt 1851, though. It's not meant to be a Colt 1851, merely to look like it. The designers intentionally made it "wrong" because it's not SUPPOSED to be that particular revolver, just taking its design cues. The game takes place in an alternate universe, so anything goes as long as it doesn't do something impossible by the standards of that universe. Just like the Broadsider is a Broadsider, not a Mauser C96. It looks identical to the Mauser C96 of our universe, but it's not the same gun. That's the whole point of calling it an alternate universe. You may as well criticize the Rolsten Reciprocating Repeater for not really existing in our world. Chitoryu12 (talk) 02:31, 13 April 2013 (EDT)
Yes, and the result of the design cues they took for the Paddywhacker is a weapon which makes no mechanical sense; they've even left the notches in the cylinder where the percussion cap nipples would be, and if we're arguing this is style rather than lack of knowledge then I'd like you to explain how a revolver fires a barrel at 12 o'clock when the top two rounds in the cylinder are at 11 and 1. And the Broadsider is not some magical fantasy weapon, it's a Mauser with a useless lever stuck on the side, a hilariously spikey rear sight and some metal milled out around the magwell for no apparent reason. We're not scientists documenting some actual alternate universe where these things really exist, we're looking at designs created by people in this universe. These are simply design errors caused by not bothering to figure out how or if the designs would actually work. You might as well say the Triple R isn't violating the laws of thermodynamics with that red-hot shroud on a stone-cold barrel because maybe fundamental principles of heat transfer are different in Columbia. Evil Tim (talk) 03:54, 13 April 2013 (EDT)
It's not like Call of Duty: Black Ops which bizarrely features real world weapons completely out of sync for when they were developed and calls them "secret research prototypes" rather than do any research at all and use actual prototype and special purpose weapons from that period. This is a science fiction game with science fiction guns which don't belong in our world. Pointing out that "this weapon is OBVIOUSLY a C96 Mauser with some cosmetic alterations, look at how dumb game developers are" is pretty pointless when it's from a game about reality shredding apart. My personal favorite is pointing out that the sniper rifle is a mishmash of components... then says that the magazine holds an "incorrect" number of rounds, as though we've ever seen this rifle before. Atypicaloracle (talk) 00:36, 29 April 2013 (EDT)
Yes, it's a mishmash of components from two rifles so closely related that one was the subject of a successful patent infringement lawsuit by the other and both have the same capacity and loading method. And it's not that the C96 has cosmetic alterations, it's that the cosmetic alterations have no obvious mechanical purpose. Evil Tim (talk) 08:26, 29 April 2013 (EDT)
Chitoryu, according to your logic, because this game is fiction, we cannot state inaccuracies about weapons. Modern Warfare 3 is also fiction. The Russians have never actually lead an attack on U.S. soil. We still, however state inaccuracies of in-game weapons that are clearly modeled after real-life weapons. The guns in BI are clearly based off real-life weapons. If we followed your logic, than the weapons on the page would have to be changed "Columbian Designed Pistol," "Columbian Designed Revolver," "Columbian Designed Carbine," etc. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 22:51, 29 April 2013 (EDT)
No, that's not how logic works. Modern Warfare 3 is fiction, but it's also meant to be set in a universe that is almost identical to the real world, where everything advanced identically except for what's necessary to push the plot forward. BioShock Infinite is not only in an alternate timeline, but it has MASSIVE changes from reality in many aspects, including technology. It makes no pretensions of realism or similarity to the real world. It can get away with lack of realism because it doesn't try to say "This is reality unless otherwise noted." Chitoryu12 (talk) 20:37, 18 August 2013 (EDT)
Eh, I've heard someone on GameFAQs argue that perhaps IW has custom guns that work exactly like the ones in the game, so all apparent errors are actually not errors. Pulling "It's fiction, it doesn't have to make sense" is generally not a good way to handle apparent errors. There is no stated aspect of the setting which requires a cartridge revolver to have percussion cap nipples and the rounded rear cylinder of a percussion revolver, nothing that explains what the structure under the barrel is supposed to be or why Booker never uses it for anything, etc. Since this is also a revolver that fires with no chamber in line with the barrel, it is fair to conclude that these are errors from a lack of firearms knowledge rather than deliberate alterations.
Your reasoning is really just "it's magic." It's one thing to show a weapon which is both fictional and mechanically sound, but one which is just a real gun with weird, nonsensical alterations or bits stuck on that would break it isn't the same thing. Evil Tim (talk) 05:38, 19 August 2013 (EDT)
I still do not understand, that in the game makes Colt Navy. He already in 1912 was incredibly outdated. And the appearance of this museum exhibit in the Rapture, in 1959, looks very strange . And when Jack at the end of the second episode, in the airplane, pulls out this ancient with stupid gilding - for me it was one big facepalm. Slon95 (talk) 14 January 2015 (EDT)
I still think that the general tone of this article is unnecessarily condescending and snarky and, frankly, points out errors that are not so. For instance, saying that the revolver's design is wrong because the loading lever is improperly placed and the cylinder strangely has nipples for percussion caps is perfectly valid. But saying it is incorrect for being break action is fallacious as it IS NOT an 1851 Navy. It is a revolver that resembles, stylistically, an 1851 Navy, but is very obviously not one nor does it claim to be one. It is a fictional weapon. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with the Sniper Rifle so far as I can find. In the story, it is presumed that Columbia manufactures their own weapons, so what is wrong with having a Mauser action rifle that is not identical to a Mauser or Springfield? Variations like this appear (licensed and unlicensed) in real life all the time (magazine-fed M1 Garands, the Colt variant of the B.A.R. etc.) This goes for the C-96 as well. The only thing particularly wrong with it is the rear site being spikey as all hell. The lever on the side is not shown to have a function, but that hardly means it can't have one. The M1 Carbine in game is a gun BASED on the design of the M1 Carbine. To claim that it is impossible to have one chambered in a round other than .30 Carbine ignores reality as this too happens in REAL LIFE with foreign copies of weapons. The shotgun is a mess, sure, as is the peppermill and the Triple R's heat shield glowing without the barrel is also problematic. However, pointing out "flaws" that aren't flaws makes the article sound elitist and nitpicky. Greaser350 (talk) 2 April 2015 (EDT)
Again, this is just trying to gloss over the issues by starting from your conclusion that the game must be doing something right, despite there being no clear evidence this is the case.
Given the revolver in the game fires with no chamber in line with the barrel, having an incorrect method of loading is the least of its problems. Most actual top-break revolvers have a release latch to open the gun (it's not exactly optional) while the in-game gun has no method of staying closed, therefore it is an incorrect alteration to the existing design rather than a new complete design.
It's hard to have a detachable, perfectly flush magazine on a rifle that doesn't appear to have a magazine release.
The lever on the C96 has no in-game function and no obvious mechanical purpose. Supposing it has a purpose even though we have no idea what that might be is not how you evaluate evidence.
Trying to put 7.62mm NATO through an M1 Carbine would totally destroy it, it's twice as powerful as .30 Carbine. There's a reason the M1 Garand which uses a similarly powerful round is twice the weight of the M1 Carbine.
Designing fictional firearms properly requires you have some knowledge of the workings of real ones, otherwise you get levers that do nothing and mechanical impossibilities that lack vital components to function. The mistakes in this game are like having a scene in a movie where a character changes gears using his car's handbrake: sure, maybe he has some special car where the handbrake is actually a gear lever, but parsimony (the principle that the theory requiring the fewest additional terms is the best) makes the best explanation that it's an error. If we were studying a case where a real person actually had changed gears with his car's handbrake we would have to assume it was somehow possible, but we're dealing with fiction here, so we don't. Evil Tim (talk) 16:00, 26 May 2015 (EDT)
That concept-art pistol for Bioshock Infinite:[2]. I personally believe, that the lever on the Mauser - mutated fire selector from M712 Schnellfeuer; although lever and nohow not used. --Slon95 (talk) 28 May 2015
I figured it was supposed to be some kind of magazine release (it does go to where the mag release is on the Schnellfeuer, but on the wrong side) but since Booker never hits it it's just a big pointless lever. Evil Tim (talk) 19:48, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
This is really work of magazine release, in the form of a lever (!). Watch carefully - at 0:12 Booker pushes the lever, and magazine released:https://youtu.be/TLEPpUEzynY --Slon95 (talk) 30 May 2015
Returning to the sniper rifle. By studying it, I want to say that it is a lot based on M1917 Enfield. --Slon95 (talk) 15:01, 25 September 2015 (UTC+2)
So I snapped a picture of the Carbine's world model. Definitely a garand derivative. My gut wants to say it's an M1 carbine, and the page says it's an M14. The magazine doesn't seem to look big enough to be 7.62x51mm and it looks too big to be .30 carbine. Also features an ambidextrous charging handle. Part of the reload animation shows a round in the chamber, so I'll try and grab a screenshot of that next time I play. Might help with identification, I guess. After I finish my first playthrough, I'll go through and snap pictures of all the weapons if anyone hasn't done so already. I have everything maxed so everything will look all pretty. Nikonov (talk) 10:52, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
I'd say M1 carbine as well. --Funkychinaman (talk) 10:55, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
Definitely agree after taking a closer look. It's easiest at the beginning of the fair when you have all the carnival games you can play. There's a guy using a carbine at one of the shooting galleries, and you can see its size and the magazine size compared to the man holding it.
Sniper Rifle = Kar98k, not 1903 Springfield
Check out the upper handguard on the sniper rifle in Bioshock: Infinite. Clearly that of a Kar98k, not a Springfield 1903. Additionally, the rear sights match that of the Kar98k. There are no discernible features on the sniper that resemble a 1903, other than the generic-looking buttstock. (Just to mention:) The front sights are enfield-style, which is odd. EDIT: I've changed the page to represent this.
C96 Appearance Theory
Now the C96 is my favorite gun ever, so I sorta got hyped when I saw that it would be included in game.
Regarding how it's a weird hybrid of the base model and the M172, I think it could be an American made copy of it. At the turn of the century, the military tested it and bought several examples. So maybe in Columbia's universe, a few of them found their way into the city and were copied with a modified design.
Since Columbia is a super ultra nationalist, xenophobic city, I doubt they would decide to arm their military and police forces with a non American weapon, especially when it would involve giving money to the vile Germans.
On another note, if they wanted an American pistol, the Colt Model 1900 would've been a good choice. All American, of course and existed at the time. --PyramidHead (talk) 09:43, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
Why ZK-383?
I called to the game page, and was very surprised when I saw that the submachine gun now declared ZK-383 model. Yes, he has something in common with it, but the game world is still built on the model of Lanchester Mk. I model with the addition of the features of ZK-383.
Andrey Karchikyan (talk) 23:38, 20 January 2014 (MSK)
Yeah, I thought that too initially, but if you look at the stock and back of the receiver on the advertisement in the first image, it's much closer to the ZK than the Lancester. Evil Tim (talk) 17:33, 20 January 2014 (EST)
Colt Navy
In my opinion, the game is used Colt 1851 Cartridge Conversion, because he shoots metallic cartridges.
The problem is that the one in the game has no loading gate, and the cylinder of the cartridge conversion is a different shape:
Error creating thumbnail: File missingYou can see here that the rear of the cylinder is curved rather than squared-off, and still has the recesses where the nipples for fitting the percussion caps should be...
It should be a cartridge conversion, but it's not, it's a percussion cap model that takes metallic cartridges anyway.Evil Tim (talk) 03:58, 12 December 2014 (EST)
Thompson M1928A1
Thompson M1928A1 in the game is a simplified model period of World War II, because:
1. Barrel without of cooling fins;
2. Simple unregulated rear sight
Error creating thumbnail: File missingTommy-Gun in the Rapture. Note the absence of cooling fins on the barrel; and a simplified rear sight in the "L" - style
Winchester shotgun
Also I have a suspicion that the shotgun is not M1887, but the M1901 (only without butt).
Because:
1. It also has a short barrel
2. In the game, he officially produced a weapon, not a homemade sawn-off shotgun.
Short barrel isn't indicative of an M1901. Evil Tim (talk) 13:21, 26 December 2014 (EST)
I agree. Simply, many people claimed that the shotgun in the game - short barrel M1901. Slon95 (talk) 26 December 2014 (EST)
I'll dig through my screenshots when I get home and see what the lever on it looks like, but I don't currently see anything about it that wouldn't belong equally on an 1887. It's a pisspoor rendition of any 1887 / 1901 configuration since it looks like they thought the magazine tube was a ramrod like it was a blunderbuss or something. Evil Tim (talk) 15:46, 26 December 2014 (EST)
Why in the game has no conventional bolt action rifles?
Why in the game is not normal bolt actions rifles? It's the most common weapon at the time. Especially strange against the background of the images in the game M1903 Springfield; and the availability of hybrid sniper rifle. But usually a simple bolt action rifle in the game not, and this is very strange!
It's probably because Colombia is supposed to be the "City of the future" so they focused of bringing self repeating rifles, as much as I'd love to use a Springfield without a scope. --RedRobinAlpha (talk) 11:34, 03 April 2015 (GMT)
Grenade launcher
In the article there was no grenade launcher (aka 'Pig Flak'), so I added a description.
This concept art, incidentally, confirmed my assumption that the "Pig Flak" based on the Milkor MGL: [3] --Slon95 (talk) 21:09, 17 September 2015 (UTC+2)
![[1]](http://www.oxmonline.com/files/u11/rivalscover_final_cmyk.jpg){kind=link}
![[2]](http://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/558041_rqzacv4kthjwr5ue_l2d5cmvr.jpg){kind=link}
![[3]](http://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/558041_23dkxkxfh04rdsdlbrvq6n2kv.jpg){kind=link}