Talk:(Aliens) - M41A Pulse Rifle: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 10:35, 21 September 2014

10mm would make it an SMG

I just realize that if this weapon really was supposed to fire, in the story, 10mm rounds, then it isn't really a rifle as it is trying to be called some sort of future assault rifle. It's more like a submachine gun to me. Excalibur01 05:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

10mmx24mm is the official caliber, according to the technical manual. So, it'd be kinda similar to the VSS in caliber, right?-protoAuthor

It shoots 10mm caseless according to the books-S&Wshooter 00:40, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

it could be a 10mm rifle round?

- It's a short cartridge, but being without a case that isn't so surprising. IIRC, the whole cartridge in the HK G11 was pretty short, too. And of course the German 7.92 'Kurz' is damn short as well, even with a casing. It could still very well be a conical-shaped rifle projectile, but just in a short cartridge/propellant package (without a case, as the rounds are caseless). And a 'shorter' rifle bullet is one of the prominent parts of the definition of 'assault rifle', after all. Just a thought. StanTheMan 21:57, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

It fires a 10x24mm round, dimentionaly similar to teh 10mm Auto(10x24mm) So think of the M41A as an MP5/10 with a huge mag and pump-action grenade launcher. Mandolin 22:50, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

- But it's not the same round as a 10mm Auto pistol cartridge, it's something different - the rounds in the Pulse Rifle are described in the film as 10mm explosive-tipped caseless, standard light-armor piercing round. A caseless round, not brass-cased rounds (The prop's real guns fire real brass-cased bullets, but bear with me here). Anyway, not 10mm Auto. Again, I don't think the weapon (in it's own fictional context, that is) fires a pistol-type projectile like a SMG. It's more likely the rounds are simply 'short' rifle cartridges, hence, it is proper to call it a 'rifle' (Though 'assault rifle' would be more accurate). The fact the dimension is the same as a real 10mm Auto doesn't sound like anything more than coincidence. StanTheMan 23:16, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

-True. Despite the fact that modern propelants would have 10x24 as a pistol round(though a very powerful one), if space travel like in the movie is possible, i can assume that firearm propelants are more powerful and advanced. i still have 2 question:1. Armor-peircing ammo is gereraly small, fast rounds, to why are these rounds big and fat? I guess they are the AP variant of the regular 10x24mm round. Second, what is a "pulse rifle"? every other sci-fi weapon's name is self-explanatory. Blasters, laser guns, plasma rifles, but what's a pulse? A pulse of what? Any ideas? Mandolin 01:10, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

We don't know what the projectiles in the film look like, so again, they could still be conical rifle-shaped projectiles that are quite capable at defeating armor. The Russian VSS(VAL), mentioned by someone above, fires a fairly short 9x39mm cartridge (based on M43), yet it's still a conical-shaped round (With a hardened tungsten carbide core) that is armor-defeating. Though typically lighter and faster bullets are better for penetration, larger-diameter rounds can still do that job as well, depending on how they're designed. Plus larger projectiles give better hit power on-target than smaller ones. One of the well-noted problems with the 5.56mm NATO is that it really doesn't have a lot of force to it because it's light and small, which is probably one of the main reasons for development of the 6.8 round, and also why many armies still use 7.62mm caliber rounds (either M1943/AK or NATO cartridges). Plus the rounds are stated to also be 'explosive-tipped' so even if the rounds don't have very rifle-style projectiles, the explosive would probably be there to help defeat armor.

As for your second question, the 'Pulse' part of Pulse Rifle most likely comes from the concept that the weapon does not rely on mechanical parts to fire it's round (that is, a firing pin physically striking a percussion-type primer) but instead uses an electronic 'pulse' to fire the weapons ammunition (by charging/detonating an electronic primer). This of course, allows for a weapon with fewer moving parts, easing manufacture, service/maintenance, etc. If you've heard of 'Metal Storm' weapons, that's pretty much what it means. StanTheMan 22:54, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

This would also allow for variable fire rates.

Thanks, I never managed to figure that out Mandolin 13:24, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Of course, James Cameron didn't consider ANY of this when he wrote the lines in his script. He just blurted out what sounded cool. MoviePropMaster2008 19:25, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually, James Cameron is quite famous for designing the things in his movies in far more depth than what we end up seeing on the screen. And let's not forget the H&K G11 was under development when this film was being made, so the caseless ammunition technology did exist back then. While the G11 used a traditional firing pin, the concept of electronic firing of caseless rounds was known. If you just read the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual, which was developed from Cameron's original concepts, you can see these weapons, particularly the M41A, were very comprehensively thought-out. They may not be 100% realistic, but they were developed using believable technology.--Leigh Burne (talk) 09:24, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

- Yeah, but one could say that's why we're here, after all. ;) StanTheMan 16:13, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

- I belive it is useing an Intermediate Round, its shorter then rifle caliber but longer then a pistol caliber. Check this out to learn more[1]

Yeah, I think we all know what an intermediate cartridge is Excalibur01 23:43, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

The "pulse" could also mean it's an electrothermal-chemical (ETC) gun, using electricity to turn the primer of a very inert charge to plasma. Though, again, the writer clearly just said pulse because it sounded cool. Probably was just a rifle to go with your flashy pulse wristwatch. Evil Tim 02:14, 21 April 2011 (CDT)

Judge Dredd

Was one of the gang types in the opening of Judge Dredd using a pulse rifle?

Both Aliens and Dredd were shot in the UK, where there is pretty much one supplier of firearms to the film and TV industry; they certainly had one live-firing pulse rifle at the time Dredd was produced.

-On second thoughts, no, it's a pump action shotgun. But it's what a shotgun would look like if tha manufacturers of the M-41 made one.

Oh, now I have to dig out my Aliens: Colonial Marines Technical Manual and find who the makers are in that universe... Armat. That's the company. God I love that book-protoAuthor

Armat? Reference to armalite maybe?-Oliveira 15:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Probably just a shortening of 'armament.' Dongs 19:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi, UK fan here. I have an Alien Trilogy special of a mag called "Science Fiction and Fantasy FX", where they did an interview with the armourers. You're right, the same company that made the M-41a also did the Dredd weapons (with some complaints about that movie).

The same company did the ZF-1 from Fifth Element, and the belt-fed rifle on "Cigar Girl's" boat from The World is Not Enough.--94.168.135.188 01:46, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Random note if anyone makes a page for it:

The videogames [and comic books] are called "Aliens versus Predator," not "Alien vs Predator;" only the first movie is called that, and the at least in the case of the second game "versus" is spelled out completely in the title. Vangelis 08:15, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

30mm Grenade?

Despite it being called a 30mm grenade launcher, it takes shells that are far too small to be "30mm" Excalibur01

Well, since we a know already it was a Remington 870 shotgun with a Franchi SPAS-12 cage and partial foregrip, so it was actually 18.5 mm grenades, since thats' the metric size of 12 gauge shells. Voila! MoviePropMaster2008 08:10, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

- Yeah, that one I ain't gonna try to explain away. Heh. StanTheMan 16:11, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

well 30mm sounds a lot more impressive than 18.5mm. Excalibur01

It's 30mm in length.

I think a resion they would use small grenade is A they developed more explosive compound. or they want small grenade encase there fighting in environment like space stations, and colony's. where a large charge might destroy live support.

links

a page that bringes up some intersting points about firearms in space, and spaceships

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3l1.html

Half-life mods?

Those aren´t official mods, what are they doing here? Markost 13:20, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Picture

Who added this picture of an airsoft pulse rifle that appears on most of our pages where the gun is used:

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

M41A Pulse Rifle

Shouldn't we be using this picture instead:

Error creating thumbnail: File missing

M41A Pulse Rifle - 10mm caseless/30mm grenades.

Unlike the previous pulse rifle pic (which, as I said, is an airsoft replica), this one is a picture of an actual screen-used M41A that was used on Aliens and Alien³; Dan Shea photographed it for the Long Mountain Outfitters site during his trip to Bapty & Co. in 2002. Shouldn't we be using a picture of a screen-used weapon instead of a fake one? -MT2008 16:08, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Off Topic

You can now buy a replica of this online. Obviously it is non-functional but...wouldn't it be cool? http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/e041/ --Charon68 01:13, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Hell yes it would be awsome.Simmons 8492

The Simpsons?

I'm sorry, but I really don't think that this has been used in The Simpsons or South Park. That is the reason that they don't have pages, none of their weapons are based on specific ones.--Jackbel 20:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

It looked pretty clear to me. [2] I'm not saying the Simpsons belong, but it was a nice cameo, and shows how iconic the Pulse Rifle has become. --funkychinaman 21:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed; it was very clear in the Simpsons. -SasquatchJim.

Ok, well maybe the simpsons was a homage, but I still think that South Park and Ben 10 are out of the question

I can't speak for Ben 10, but M41As do appear in a few South Park episodes, and later in the series a few other relatively accurate guns appear, such as M16s and M4s sometimes with M203s, a G36 (albeit in a bullpup configuration), and a Remington 700, to name a few. The series has come quite a ways since Jimbo's guns. Of course, I'm not suggesting we should allow a page for it or The Simpsons, but I felt it prudent to say. Spartan198 (talk) 06:22, 21 September 2014 (EDT)

Here, found an image. You can see a pulse rifle slung across the back of the sea otter on the right. This is from the episode "Go God Go XII". Spartan198 (talk) 06:35, 21 September 2014 (EDT)

real thing :D

just saw a video of a working pulse rifle in 9mm and the shotgun is a single shell pump action 12 guage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am76xV8Aubk

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-== New Image? ==
-I have a friend who posts on the RoboCop Archive board who some time ago posted his completed (and pretty high-quality) Pulse Rifle model kit, and in very high-res pictures. Pending his permission, I'd like to upload it in addition to the present pic (I'll leave the present pic alone as it seems to be one of an actual screen-used prop.) I wanted to ask first, since I don't specifically know whether images of fan-built props/models are allowable or not. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:06, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
 == 10mm would make it an SMG ==
@@ Line 10: / Line 7: @@
 it could be a 10mm rifle round?
-- It's a short cartridge, but being without a case that isn't so surprising. IIRC, the whole cartridge in the HK G11 was pretty short, too. And of course the German 7.92 'Kurz' is damn short as well, even with a casing. It could still very well be a conical-shaped rifle projectile, but just in a short cartridge/propellant package (without a case, as the weapons are caseless). And a 'shorter' rifle bullet is one of the prominent parts of the definition of 'assault rifle', after all. Just a thought. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 21:57, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
+- It's a short cartridge, but being without a case that isn't so surprising. IIRC, the whole cartridge in the HK G11 was pretty short, too. And of course the German 7.92 'Kurz' is damn short as well, even with a casing. It could still very well be a conical-shaped rifle projectile, but just in a short cartridge/propellant package (without a case, as the rounds are caseless). And a 'shorter' rifle bullet is one of the prominent parts of the definition of 'assault rifle', after all. Just a thought. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 21:57, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
 It fires a 10x24mm round, dimentionaly similar to teh 10mm Auto(10x24mm) So think of the M41A as an MP5/10 with a huge mag and pump-action grenade launcher. [[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 22:50, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 17: / Line 14: @@
 -True. Despite the fact that modern propelants would have 10x24 as a pistol round(though a very powerful one), if space travel like in the movie is possible, i can assume that  firearm propelants are more powerful and advanced. i still have 2 question:1. Armor-peircing ammo is gereraly small, fast rounds, to why are these rounds big and fat? I guess they are the AP variant of the regular 10x24mm round. Second, what is a "pulse rifle"? every other sci-fi weapon's name is self-explanatory. Blasters, laser guns, plasma rifles, but what's a pulse? A pulse of what? Any ideas? [[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 01:10, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
+We don't know what the projectiles in the film look like, so again, they could still be conical rifle-shaped projectiles that are quite capable at defeating armor. The Russian VSS(VAL), mentioned by someone above, fires a fairly short 9x39mm cartridge (based on M43), yet it's still a conical-shaped round (With a hardened tungsten carbide core) that is armor-defeating. Though typically lighter and faster bullets are better for penetration, larger-diameter rounds can still do that job as well, depending on how they're designed. Plus larger projectiles give better hit power on-target than smaller ones. One of the well-noted problems with the 5.56mm NATO is that it really doesn't have a lot of force to it because it's light and small, which is probably one of the main reasons for development of the 6.8 round, and also why many armies still use 7.62mm caliber rounds (either M1943/AK or NATO cartridges). Plus the rounds are stated to also be 'explosive-tipped' so even if the rounds don't have very rifle-style projectiles, the explosive would probably be there to help defeat armor.
+As for your second question, the 'Pulse' part of Pulse Rifle most likely comes from the concept that the weapon does not rely on mechanical parts to fire it's round (that is, a firing pin physically striking a percussion-type primer) but instead uses an electronic 'pulse' to fire the weapons ammunition (by charging/detonating an electronic primer). This of course, allows for a weapon with fewer moving parts, easing manufacture, service/maintenance, etc. If you've heard of 'Metal Storm' weapons, that's pretty much what it means. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:54, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
+:::This would also allow for variable fire rates.
+Thanks, I never managed to figure that out [[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 13:24, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
+::Of course, James Cameron didn't consider ANY of this when he wrote the lines in his script.  He just blurted out what sounded cool. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:25, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
+:::Actually, James Cameron is quite famous for designing the things in his movies in far more depth than what we end up seeing on the screen. And let's not forget the H&K G11 was under development when this film was being made, so the caseless ammunition technology did exist back then. While the G11 used a traditional firing pin, the concept of electronic firing of caseless rounds was known. If you just read the ''Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual'', which was developed from Cameron's original concepts, you can see these weapons, particularly the M41A, were very comprehensively thought-out. They may not be 100% realistic, but they were developed using believable technology.--[[User:Leigh Burne|Leigh Burne]] ([[User talk:Leigh Burne|talk]]) 09:24, 31 October 2012 (EDT)
+- Yeah, but one could say that's why we're here, after all. ;) [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:13, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
+- I belive it is useing  an Intermediate Round, its shorter then rifle caliber but longer then a pistol caliber. Check this out to learn more[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_cartridges]
+Yeah, I think we all know what an intermediate cartridge is [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:43, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
+:The "pulse" could also mean it's an electrothermal-chemical (ETC) gun, using electricity to turn the primer of a very inert charge to plasma. Though, again, the writer clearly just said pulse because it sounded cool. Probably was just a rifle to go with your flashy pulse wristwatch. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:14, 21 April 2011 (CDT)
 == Judge Dredd ==
@@ Line 28: / Line 44: @@
 :::Armat? Reference to armalite maybe?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 ::::Probably just a shortening of 'armament.' [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 19:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
+Hi, UK fan here. I have an Alien Trilogy special of a mag called "Science Fiction and Fantasy FX", where they did an interview with the armourers. You're right, the same company that made the M-41a also did the Dredd weapons (with some complaints about that movie).
+The same company did the ZF-1 from Fifth Element, and the belt-fed rifle on "Cigar Girl's" boat from The World is Not Enough.--[[Special:Contributions/94.168.135.188|94.168.135.188]] 01:46, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 == Random note if anyone makes a page for it: ==
 The videogames [and comic books] are called "Aliens versus Predator," ''not'' "Alien vs Predator;" only the ''first'' movie is called that, and the at least in the case of the second game "versus" is spelled out completely in the title. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 08:15, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
+== 30mm Grenade? ==
+Despite it being called a 30mm grenade launcher, it takes shells that are far too small to be "30mm" [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
+: Well, since we a know already it was a Remington 870 shotgun with a Franchi SPAS-12 cage and partial foregrip, so it was actually 18.5 mm grenades, since thats' the metric size of 12 gauge shells.  Voila! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:10, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
+- Yeah, that one I ain't gonna try to explain away. Heh. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:11, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
+: well 30mm sounds a lot more impressive than 18.5mm. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
+:::It's 30mm in length.
+I think a resion they would use small grenade is A they developed more explosive compound. or they want small grenade encase there fighting in environment like space stations, and colony's. where a large charge might destroy live support.
+==links==
+a page that bringes up some intersting points about firearms in space, and spaceships
+http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3l1.html
+== Half-life mods? ==
+Those aren´t official mods, what are they doing here? [[User:Markost|Markost]] 13:20, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
+==Picture==
+Who added this picture of an airsoft pulse rifle that appears on most of our pages where the gun is used:
+[[Image: M41a01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M41A Pulse Rifle]]
+Shouldn't we be using this picture instead:
+[[Image:Pulse Rifle-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M41A Pulse Rifle - 10mm caseless/30mm grenades.]]
+Unlike the previous pulse rifle pic (which, as I said, is an airsoft replica), this one is a picture of an actual screen-used M41A that was used on ''[[Aliens]]'' and ''[[Alien³]]''; Dan Shea photographed it for the Long Mountain Outfitters site during his trip to Bapty & Co. in 2002. Shouldn't we be using a picture of a screen-used weapon instead of a fake one? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:08, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
+== Off Topic ==
+You can now buy a replica of this online.  Obviously it is non-functional but...wouldn't it be cool?
+http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/e041/ --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 01:13, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
+Hell yes it would be awsome.[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]
+== The Simpsons? ==
+I'm sorry, but I really don't think that this has been used in The Simpsons or South Park. That is the reason that they don't have pages, none of their weapons are based on specific ones.--[[User:Jackbel|Jackbel]] 20:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
+:It looked pretty clear to me. [http://www.m41a.com/a_2005/articles/obscure/simpson.jpg] I'm not saying the Simpsons belong, but it was a nice cameo, and shows how iconic the Pulse Rifle has become. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
+Agreed; it was very clear in the Simpsons. -SasquatchJim.
+Ok, well maybe the simpsons was a homage, but I still think that South Park and Ben 10 are out of the question
+:I can't speak for ''Ben 10'', but M41As do appear in a few ''South Park'' episodes, and later in the series a few other relatively accurate guns appear, such as M16s and M4s sometimes with M203s, a G36 (albeit in a bullpup configuration), and a Remington 700, to name a few. The series has come quite a ways since [http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_01/sp_0102_11_m4.jpg?width=200 Jimbo's guns]. Of course, I'm not suggesting we should allow a page for it or ''The Simpsons'', but I felt it prudent to say. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:22, 21 September 2014 (EDT)
+:Here, found an [http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100303064445/southpark/images/f/f8/GoGodGoXII05.jpg image]. You can see a pulse rifle slung across the back of the sea otter on the right. This is from the episode "Go God Go XII". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:35, 21 September 2014 (EDT)
+== real thing :D ==
+just saw a video of a working pulse rifle in 9mm and the shotgun is a single shell pump action 12 guage
+http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am76xV8Aubk

Talk:(Aliens) - M41A Pulse Rifle: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 10:35, 21 September 2014

Contents

10mm would make it an SMG

Judge Dredd

Random note if anyone makes a page for it:

30mm Grenade?

links

Half-life mods?

Picture

Off Topic

The Simpsons?

real thing :D

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Talk:(Aliens) - M41A Pulse Rifle: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 10:35, 21 September 2014

10mm would make it an SMG

Judge Dredd

Random note if anyone makes a page for it:

30mm Grenade?

links

Half-life mods?

Picture

Off Topic

The Simpsons?

real thing :D

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