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Talk:Hans Kloss. Stawka wieksza niz smierc: Difference between revisions
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::It is too small for a VIS, that is equivalent to a full size 1911 whereas this looks smaller. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | ::It is too small for a VIS, that is equivalent to a full size 1911 whereas this looks smaller. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | ||
:::I moved it under the Tokarev copy, because it has the lanyard ring on the magazine baseplate, the same straight slide serrations, and the sights are moved forward on the slide to accommodate the hammer because it is partially shrouded in the slide. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 05:13, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | :::I moved it under the Tokarev copy, because it has the lanyard ring on the magazine baseplate, the same straight slide serrations, and the sights are moved forward on the slide to accommodate the hammer because it is partially shrouded in the slide. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 05:13, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | ||
:::: On second thought, you're right. --[[User:Seriously Mike|Seriously Mike]] 05:58, 31 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
In both of those images the pistol looks too short to be a regular Tokarev (compare the position of the ejection port along the slide and the length of the scalloped portion of the slide to a tokarev image and you will see the diference). Looks more like the size of a [[Zastava M88]] to me. Anachronistic, but is the only "Compact Tokarev" that I know of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:30, 31 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
[[File:ZastavaPistol.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Zastava M88 - 9x19mm]] | |||
The pistol has the unique cocking serrations of the Polish Tokarev, though. They can be easily seen in the first pic, compare those serrations with the ones on the pic of the gun and they match, but I do agree that the pistols look smaller. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 10:27, 31 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
::I couldn't decide if it had the wide slide serrations or not, but think you are probably right. However, just to point out these aren't unique to the Polish versions, these were the standard serrations for all Tokarevs during the war, it is just that the only pics we currently have are post war guns. I think the only way to tell a wartime Russian pistol from a Polish one is by whether it has the star on the grips or not. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:07, 31 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
:Does [http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/002412/2412402.jpg this pistol] matches? It is Polish 8mm gas pistol manufactured by BUSS (Biuro Urządzeń Sprzętu Specjalnego) in 1990s, shortened and rebarreled Polish TT. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 10:42, 31 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
::Good find, I'd go with that. The tiny little front sight also matches the one in the film. I've never seen one of these before is it actually made from a full size Tokarev by cutting it down or is it a reproduction? I can only find sites in Polish about it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:07, 31 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
:::In Russian site where I found this photo they say that those gas pistols were made from real full size Tokarevs of Polish and USSR origin. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 12:13, 31 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
== "AKMSU" == | == "AKMSU" == | ||
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Actually I don't think it is an MPi-AKS-74NК as that has a longer barrel than this, being equivalent to the [[AK-105]] but with the folding wire stock. Is this filmed in Poland? If so it could be a wz. 89 Onyxs which is a shortened variant of the Tantal, or it could be a cut down East German gun (MPi-AKS-74N or MPi-AKS-74NK, once you shorten the barrel there is no way of telling). Also, Pandolfini do you have any more shots from that scene, as the guy behind has a 5.45mm rifle judging by the muzzle break and gas block, but can't tell what it is without a look at the rest of the gun (my guess is a Tantal or an MPi-AKS-74N). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:39, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | Actually I don't think it is an MPi-AKS-74NК as that has a longer barrel than this, being equivalent to the [[AK-105]] but with the folding wire stock. Is this filmed in Poland? If so it could be a wz. 89 Onyxs which is a shortened variant of the Tantal, or it could be a cut down East German gun (MPi-AKS-74N or MPi-AKS-74NK, once you shorten the barrel there is no way of telling). Also, Pandolfini do you have any more shots from that scene, as the guy behind has a 5.45mm rifle judging by the muzzle break and gas block, but can't tell what it is without a look at the rest of the gun (my guess is a Tantal or an MPi-AKS-74N). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:39, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | ||
:I agree, this is most likely [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Onyks_REMOV.jpg wz. 89 Onyxs]. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 07:55, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | :I agree, this is most likely [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Onyks_REMOV.jpg wz. 89 Onyxs]. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] 07:55, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | ||
::Yeah that's what I'm talking about. Is hard to tell from the screenshot but I think the rear sight matches as well, along with the rounded bump in the lower handguard. Going on this I would guess that the gun behind is the wx. 88 Tantal, but the flash hider doesn't look right, more like a normal AKS-74 one. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:25, 30 August 2012 (CDT) Thx!--[[User:Pandolfini|Pandolfini]] 09:26, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
== Jericho 941 == | |||
Is'n it anachronistic for year 1970? Couldn't they use someting different like Colt 1911M1? - Witol96 30.08.2012 - 16:56 UTC +01:00 | |||
:Polish wz 89 Onyks is also anachronistic:)))--[[User:Pandolfini|Pandolfini]] 09:59, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
::Yes, but Onyks is standing for AK47. - Witol96 30.08.20122 - 17:02 UTC +01:00 | |||
:::Onyx is but standing for AK-74 and Soviet Union began replacing their AK-47 with a AK-74 in 1978. Story movie but began in 1975 by death of Otto Skorzeny.--[[User:Pandolfini|Pandolfini]] 10:26, 30 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
== M4 Sherman == | |||
M4 Sherman as Soviet tank. Really genius. What's next!? A attack chopper in 1944 during Warsaw uprising? - Witol96 30.08.2012 - 20:47 UTC +01:00 | |||
:The Russian did use the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease_Sherman_tanks#USSR Sherman] actually, more than 4000 of them. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:55, 31 August 2012 (CDT) | |||
::Didn't know that, but they could use T-34 tank which is more Soviet. Ok I'm ending criticizing movie from my country. - Witol96 30.08.2012 - 21:02 UTC +01:00 | |||
== AK-74? == | |||
On photo below, second soldier from left, have rifle slung on his back. My first guess was Tantal (it's a Polish movie, isn't it?), but flash-hider looks like normal AK-74. Probably airsoft, or some non-gun, as AK-74s were never used/imported to Poland (civilian legal Saiga-MK would be a wild guess). Should we add it to the movie page? --[[User:Chris22lr|Chris22lr]] ([[User talk:Chris22lr|talk]]) 17:35, 8 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
[[Image:AKMSU-SWNZ.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]] | |||
:It would be possible to relatively easily change the muzzle brake on a Tantal to an AK-74 one, however that doesn't appear to be the case here. On the Tantal the forward bayonet lug is mounted at the front of the front sight block (due to the longer muzzle brake), whereas on this gun it is at the rear. Also, to me it looks as if the bayonet lug lines up with the back of the front sight like on a [[Media:RomanianAK74.jpg|Romanian AK-74]], rather than being mounted on a rearward extension like on a traditional [[Media:AK-74 NTW 12 92.jpg|AK-74]]. However the Romanian AK-74s have the older 45 degree gas block whereas this gun has the AK-74 type 90 degree one, so I am inclined to say that it is an AK-74 (or a replica or civilian version thereof), where my perception of the position of the front bayonet lug is being thrown off by the angle and distance of the gun in the picture. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:52, 8 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
::OK, I'm going to add AK-74 section to the movie page - to my eyes the bayo lug is in "Soviet" position (rearward extension), even from this angle. --[[User:Chris22lr|Chris22lr]] ([[User talk:Chris22lr|talk]]) 13:45, 9 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
Latest revision as of 17:45, 9 August 2013
Unidentified pistol look's like Walther PPK. - Witol96 30.08.2012 - 10:09 UTC +01:00
- No, the slide is all wrong. I'd say it's a VIS. --Seriously Mike 04:29, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
- It is too small for a VIS, that is equivalent to a full size 1911 whereas this looks smaller. --commando552 04:53, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
- I moved it under the Tokarev copy, because it has the lanyard ring on the magazine baseplate, the same straight slide serrations, and the sights are moved forward on the slide to accommodate the hammer because it is partially shrouded in the slide. --SmithandWesson36 05:13, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
- On second thought, you're right. --Seriously Mike 05:58, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
- I moved it under the Tokarev copy, because it has the lanyard ring on the magazine baseplate, the same straight slide serrations, and the sights are moved forward on the slide to accommodate the hammer because it is partially shrouded in the slide. --SmithandWesson36 05:13, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
- It is too small for a VIS, that is equivalent to a full size 1911 whereas this looks smaller. --commando552 04:53, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
In both of those images the pistol looks too short to be a regular Tokarev (compare the position of the ejection port along the slide and the length of the scalloped portion of the slide to a tokarev image and you will see the diference). Looks more like the size of a Zastava M88 to me. Anachronistic, but is the only "Compact Tokarev" that I know of. --commando552 06:30, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
The pistol has the unique cocking serrations of the Polish Tokarev, though. They can be easily seen in the first pic, compare those serrations with the ones on the pic of the gun and they match, but I do agree that the pistols look smaller. --SmithandWesson36 10:27, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
- I couldn't decide if it had the wide slide serrations or not, but think you are probably right. However, just to point out these aren't unique to the Polish versions, these were the standard serrations for all Tokarevs during the war, it is just that the only pics we currently have are post war guns. I think the only way to tell a wartime Russian pistol from a Polish one is by whether it has the star on the grips or not. --commando552 12:07, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
- Does this pistol matches? It is Polish 8mm gas pistol manufactured by BUSS (Biuro Urządzeń Sprzętu Specjalnego) in 1990s, shortened and rebarreled Polish TT. Greg-Z 10:42, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
- Good find, I'd go with that. The tiny little front sight also matches the one in the film. I've never seen one of these before is it actually made from a full size Tokarev by cutting it down or is it a reproduction? I can only find sites in Polish about it. --commando552 12:07, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
- In Russian site where I found this photo they say that those gas pistols were made from real full size Tokarevs of Polish and USSR origin. Greg-Z 12:13, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
- Good find, I'd go with that. The tiny little front sight also matches the one in the film. I've never seen one of these before is it actually made from a full size Tokarev by cutting it down or is it a reproduction? I can only find sites in Polish about it. --commando552 12:07, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
"AKMSU"
This is East German MPi-AKS-74NК in 5.45x39. Note the shape of folding stock which is typical for East German AKs. Greg-Z 05:50, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
- It is variant of AK-74U?--Pandolfini 06:44, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
Actually I don't think it is an MPi-AKS-74NК as that has a longer barrel than this, being equivalent to the AK-105 but with the folding wire stock. Is this filmed in Poland? If so it could be a wz. 89 Onyxs which is a shortened variant of the Tantal, or it could be a cut down East German gun (MPi-AKS-74N or MPi-AKS-74NK, once you shorten the barrel there is no way of telling). Also, Pandolfini do you have any more shots from that scene, as the guy behind has a 5.45mm rifle judging by the muzzle break and gas block, but can't tell what it is without a look at the rest of the gun (my guess is a Tantal or an MPi-AKS-74N). --commando552 07:39, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
- I agree, this is most likely wz. 89 Onyxs. Greg-Z 07:55, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
- Yeah that's what I'm talking about. Is hard to tell from the screenshot but I think the rear sight matches as well, along with the rounded bump in the lower handguard. Going on this I would guess that the gun behind is the wx. 88 Tantal, but the flash hider doesn't look right, more like a normal AKS-74 one. --commando552 09:25, 30 August 2012 (CDT) Thx!--Pandolfini 09:26, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
Jericho 941
Is'n it anachronistic for year 1970? Couldn't they use someting different like Colt 1911M1? - Witol96 30.08.2012 - 16:56 UTC +01:00
- Polish wz 89 Onyks is also anachronistic:)))--Pandolfini 09:59, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
- Yes, but Onyks is standing for AK47. - Witol96 30.08.20122 - 17:02 UTC +01:00
- Onyx is but standing for AK-74 and Soviet Union began replacing their AK-47 with a AK-74 in 1978. Story movie but began in 1975 by death of Otto Skorzeny.--Pandolfini 10:26, 30 August 2012 (CDT)
- Yes, but Onyks is standing for AK47. - Witol96 30.08.20122 - 17:02 UTC +01:00
M4 Sherman
M4 Sherman as Soviet tank. Really genius. What's next!? A attack chopper in 1944 during Warsaw uprising? - Witol96 30.08.2012 - 20:47 UTC +01:00
- The Russian did use the Sherman actually, more than 4000 of them. --commando552 13:55, 31 August 2012 (CDT)
- Didn't know that, but they could use T-34 tank which is more Soviet. Ok I'm ending criticizing movie from my country. - Witol96 30.08.2012 - 21:02 UTC +01:00
AK-74?
On photo below, second soldier from left, have rifle slung on his back. My first guess was Tantal (it's a Polish movie, isn't it?), but flash-hider looks like normal AK-74. Probably airsoft, or some non-gun, as AK-74s were never used/imported to Poland (civilian legal Saiga-MK would be a wild guess). Should we add it to the movie page? --Chris22lr (talk) 17:35, 8 August 2013 (EDT)
- It would be possible to relatively easily change the muzzle brake on a Tantal to an AK-74 one, however that doesn't appear to be the case here. On the Tantal the forward bayonet lug is mounted at the front of the front sight block (due to the longer muzzle brake), whereas on this gun it is at the rear. Also, to me it looks as if the bayonet lug lines up with the back of the front sight like on a Romanian AK-74, rather than being mounted on a rearward extension like on a traditional AK-74. However the Romanian AK-74s have the older 45 degree gas block whereas this gun has the AK-74 type 90 degree one, so I am inclined to say that it is an AK-74 (or a replica or civilian version thereof), where my perception of the position of the front bayonet lug is being thrown off by the angle and distance of the gun in the picture. --commando552 (talk) 18:52, 8 August 2013 (EDT)
