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Talk:S.W.A.T. 4: Difference between revisions

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=Page Created, but with some initial concerns=
Do we really need the smarmy gun owner commentary?  Real mature guys. 
:Pardon me, but I have no idea what you're referring to. Are you talking about a specific passage in the article? Please sign your posts next time, too. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:31, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 
:Smarmy commentary has long been a problem on IMFDB, but frankly, I've gone through the page and I don't see it.  I mean one 'could' go through and make really make ALL commentary as neutral and encyclopedic as possible, but this page looks pretty damned good in my estimation.  If only ALL of the game pages looked like this one.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 16:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 
=Page Essentially Complete=
 
Page creator here. The page is largely complete with screenshots and tidied-up text, but if anyone can help with the last few concerns I'd be most grateful.
 
:1. Is the AK-47 rifle ingame really an AKM rifle, given its slant-cut compensator?
:2. What kind of shotgun model are the NPC-only shotgun variants based on?
:3. Is there a specific variant that the Colt M1911 pistol ingame is actually based on? From what I remember the original M1911s had only 7 rounds per magazine, not 8.
:4. Is there a variant of the Colt Python revolver that is Single Action Only? From what I've read, the Colt Python is a Double Action revolver. This is not the first game I've seen that treats Double Action revolvers as Single Action Only, however; Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines from 2004 has a Colt Anaconda that is treated like a Single Action Only gun (including the "fanning" motion for rapid fire) and Bioshock from 2007 has NPCs with Webley MK IVs who use the "fanning" motion as well, so is it just a decision by the developers to portray it that way?
--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:49, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 
I'd like to answer query 3. 
Any M1911 pistol can be loaded with 8 rounds.  There are a myriad of magazines available with an 8 round capacity.  And being a SWAT team and all, I'm sure they've decided they need that extra round in each mag.  --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 23:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 
:Thanks, but do similar "extended magazines" exist for .50 AE Desert Eagles? The standard magazine capacity for .50 AE Desert Eagles is also seven, but this game treats them as though they had 8 round magazines instead.
 
:I take it that there is a limit to how far this could go--you couldn't shove a double-stack .45 ACP magazine down a standard Colt M1911 without some serious time, expertise, and money spent modifying the gun, for example. Too bad the game makes it so that the Colt M1911 in this game is so weak compared to the Glock 17 when using FMJ rounds against armoured opponents--three torso hits from the Colt M1911 are needed to down an armoured opponent in this game, the same number of hits a Glock 17 needs to down someone in body armour. Maybe needing 5 FMJ hits to down an armoured opponent from a Glock 17 would have been more balanced instead? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:29, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 
I'll probably answer #2 incorrectly, but it looks like a [[Serbu Super Shorty]] (Or something similar), [[Talk:Remington_Model_870_Shotgun|Remington 870 Entry]], and a [[Mossberg_590#Mossberg_590_Cruiser_.2F_590_Compact_Cruiser|Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser]]. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 01:46, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 
:I'll take a stab at 4. I'd guess it's the developers balancing gameplay, but there is a real-life explanation that is simply: Single-action usage lessens the trigger pull, which makes it so you have less chance of jerking the gun away.-protoAuthor 01:09, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


Do we really need the smarmy gun owner commentary?  Real mature guys.   
Thanks, but it still doesn't excuse how the previous games I mentioned still use the "fanning" motion when in fact all the game characters would have to do is just stop pulling the hammer back with the thumb. I hope someone here can positively identify the NPC shotguns anyhow . . . --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 
==Springfield Armory Tactical Response Pistol (TRP)==
I think the VG artist based the slide of the M1911 on the Springfield Armory Tactical Response Pistol (TRP).  The hammer is the old style, but that's an interchangeable part in the real world.  The general shape of the slide and sights looks more like the Springfield Armory Tactical Response Pistol (TRP) than any other M1911 variant.  The fact that it has wood grips means nothing, there are wood grips sold in the aftermarket that fit the TRP.  But I would not call it a plain jane M1911 variant.  Even though the frame looks like an M1911 it has a rail for the light, which the original M1911 would not have.  I would call it a TRP that was lazily drawn without the grip safety. ;)  Thoughts? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:24, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 
:You wouldn't happen to have a photo of such an M1911 variant, would you? It could be useful for comparison purposes. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:49, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 
::It's on the M1911 page
 
:Sure, but that version does not have an accessory rail. There is a website I found recently that does have a picture of such a variant, here: http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/3100/3180.htm
 
:I think that you're the one with the know-how to figure out how to get such an image without violating copyrights, though. There's also the problem of how it's designated to be a Colt product ingame--is it at all possible that the pistol is just an obscure Colt product? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 23:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
::Now I am NOT a Colt Expert, but I have not seen a Colt M1911 pistol with the dual grip serrations on the slide.  Correct me if I'm wrong. So it could NOT be a COlt (again I am not sure on this point) But then in the REAL world, people have customized their colt guns all the time, with aftermarket slides.  Sure it ruins the collector value but to the shooter, he doesn't care as long as he's happy with the ergonomics and shooting capability. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:25, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 
::PS it could also be a Kimber TLE
 
:The ingame M1911 variant only has cocking serrations at the rear of the slide, not at both the front and rear. The plot thickens . . . --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


== Kalash ==


I'm looking forward to making a complete write-up of this game, but until I finish, I'd like it if other users of this wiki could post up the correct stock pictures of the guns in this game while I attend to the text and screenshots. Also, someone with the right privileges needs to make it so that "SWAT 4" will redirect to this page as well, just like typing in "stalker" will direct one to the page for the "S.T.A.L.K.E.R." game. It's about time there was a page for this great police simulator. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 06:36, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
The Kalash on the 1st pic looks like a '47, while the one in the box is an AKM. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:54, 8 November 2011 (CST)
:I can post the images but I will leave the ones that have multiple models such as the MP5 or the generation model Glock models alone until you post screenshots. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 07:03, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
:Will do. Again, I'll appreciate anyone who can help identify some of the more generic guns or guns with many possible models in this game. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


:I'm no expert on the exact forms of AK variants, but if you see something different and want to change the section's title to AK-47 or "Composite AK," feel free to do so. This page may be "my baby," but I've nothing against people making it more correct. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:24, 8 November 2011 (CST)


The huge "overview" of the game really isn't necessary. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
::I cannot find any good pix on the net, so I am gonna re-install the game and see it for myself, but judging by the receiver it is the 47. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 01:35, 9 November 2011 (CST)
:After seeing the intro to [[Operation Flashpoint]] page, I thought I might include some details on what distinguishes this shooter from many others. And given the way this page is formatted, you can skip it by clicking another link on the table of contents, unlike the [[Operation Flashpoint]] page where you can't skip the intro at all--it's always visible at the top of the page unless you followed a link to a specific section on that page. Besides, I wrote it up partly because practically no FPS games now feature police-style rules of engagement nor the amount of trigger discretion this game requires. It seems no one wants to play a police officer nowadays. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:39, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
:::The first person model is a milled receiver so is an [[AK-47]]. The one on the box is messed up. It seems to have the indent of an [[AKM]] (although it is too far back), it has AK-47 front sight, [[AK-74]] gas tube and AK-74 furniture and an AKM slant flash hider. The magazine is of AK-47 style, but seems to be the shape of an AK-74. So basically, it is a bit of everything. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:26, 9 November 2011 (CST)

Latest revision as of 13:26, 9 November 2011

Do we really need the smarmy gun owner commentary? Real mature guys.

Pardon me, but I have no idea what you're referring to. Are you talking about a specific passage in the article? Please sign your posts next time, too. --Mazryonh 02:31, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Smarmy commentary has long been a problem on IMFDB, but frankly, I've gone through the page and I don't see it. I mean one 'could' go through and make really make ALL commentary as neutral and encyclopedic as possible, but this page looks pretty damned good in my estimation. If only ALL of the game pages looked like this one. MoviePropMaster2008 16:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Page Essentially Complete

Page creator here. The page is largely complete with screenshots and tidied-up text, but if anyone can help with the last few concerns I'd be most grateful.

1. Is the AK-47 rifle ingame really an AKM rifle, given its slant-cut compensator?
2. What kind of shotgun model are the NPC-only shotgun variants based on?
3. Is there a specific variant that the Colt M1911 pistol ingame is actually based on? From what I remember the original M1911s had only 7 rounds per magazine, not 8.
4. Is there a variant of the Colt Python revolver that is Single Action Only? From what I've read, the Colt Python is a Double Action revolver. This is not the first game I've seen that treats Double Action revolvers as Single Action Only, however; Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines from 2004 has a Colt Anaconda that is treated like a Single Action Only gun (including the "fanning" motion for rapid fire) and Bioshock from 2007 has NPCs with Webley MK IVs who use the "fanning" motion as well, so is it just a decision by the developers to portray it that way?

--Mazryonh 02:49, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to answer query 3. Any M1911 pistol can be loaded with 8 rounds. There are a myriad of magazines available with an 8 round capacity. And being a SWAT team and all, I'm sure they've decided they need that extra round in each mag. --Asmkillr323 23:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but do similar "extended magazines" exist for .50 AE Desert Eagles? The standard magazine capacity for .50 AE Desert Eagles is also seven, but this game treats them as though they had 8 round magazines instead.
I take it that there is a limit to how far this could go--you couldn't shove a double-stack .45 ACP magazine down a standard Colt M1911 without some serious time, expertise, and money spent modifying the gun, for example. Too bad the game makes it so that the Colt M1911 in this game is so weak compared to the Glock 17 when using FMJ rounds against armoured opponents--three torso hits from the Colt M1911 are needed to down an armoured opponent in this game, the same number of hits a Glock 17 needs to down someone in body armour. Maybe needing 5 FMJ hits to down an armoured opponent from a Glock 17 would have been more balanced instead? --Mazryonh 01:29, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll probably answer #2 incorrectly, but it looks like a Serbu Super Shorty (Or something similar), Remington 870 Entry, and a Mossberg 590 Compact Cruiser. --Crazycrankle 01:46, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll take a stab at 4. I'd guess it's the developers balancing gameplay, but there is a real-life explanation that is simply: Single-action usage lessens the trigger pull, which makes it so you have less chance of jerking the gun away.-protoAuthor 01:09, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but it still doesn't excuse how the previous games I mentioned still use the "fanning" motion when in fact all the game characters would have to do is just stop pulling the hammer back with the thumb. I hope someone here can positively identify the NPC shotguns anyhow . . . --Mazryonh 01:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Springfield Armory Tactical Response Pistol (TRP)

I think the VG artist based the slide of the M1911 on the Springfield Armory Tactical Response Pistol (TRP). The hammer is the old style, but that's an interchangeable part in the real world. The general shape of the slide and sights looks more like the Springfield Armory Tactical Response Pistol (TRP) than any other M1911 variant. The fact that it has wood grips means nothing, there are wood grips sold in the aftermarket that fit the TRP. But I would not call it a plain jane M1911 variant. Even though the frame looks like an M1911 it has a rail for the light, which the original M1911 would not have. I would call it a TRP that was lazily drawn without the grip safety. ;) Thoughts? MoviePropMaster2008 02:24, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

You wouldn't happen to have a photo of such an M1911 variant, would you? It could be useful for comparison purposes. --Mazryonh 02:49, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
It's on the M1911 page
Sure, but that version does not have an accessory rail. There is a website I found recently that does have a picture of such a variant, here: http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/3100/3180.htm
I think that you're the one with the know-how to figure out how to get such an image without violating copyrights, though. There's also the problem of how it's designated to be a Colt product ingame--is it at all possible that the pistol is just an obscure Colt product? --Mazryonh 23:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Now I am NOT a Colt Expert, but I have not seen a Colt M1911 pistol with the dual grip serrations on the slide. Correct me if I'm wrong. So it could NOT be a COlt (again I am not sure on this point) But then in the REAL world, people have customized their colt guns all the time, with aftermarket slides. Sure it ruins the collector value but to the shooter, he doesn't care as long as he's happy with the ergonomics and shooting capability. MoviePropMaster2008 00:25, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
PS it could also be a Kimber TLE
The ingame M1911 variant only has cocking serrations at the rear of the slide, not at both the front and rear. The plot thickens . . . --Mazryonh 01:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Kalash

The Kalash on the 1st pic looks like a '47, while the one in the box is an AKM. --bozitojugg3rn4ut 14:54, 8 November 2011 (CST)

I'm no expert on the exact forms of AK variants, but if you see something different and want to change the section's title to AK-47 or "Composite AK," feel free to do so. This page may be "my baby," but I've nothing against people making it more correct. --Mazryonh 21:24, 8 November 2011 (CST)
I cannot find any good pix on the net, so I am gonna re-install the game and see it for myself, but judging by the receiver it is the 47. - bozitojugg3rn4ut 01:35, 9 November 2011 (CST)
The first person model is a milled receiver so is an AK-47. The one on the box is messed up. It seems to have the indent of an AKM (although it is too far back), it has AK-47 front sight, AK-74 gas tube and AK-74 furniture and an AKM slant flash hider. The magazine is of AK-47 style, but seems to be the shape of an AK-74. So basically, it is a bit of everything. --commando552 07:26, 9 November 2011 (CST)
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