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Talk:Winans Steam Gun: Difference between revisions
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:I think it's more appropriate than a crossbow being as it does use fire at some point in the firing sequence and is a weapon, and thus is a "fire"-"arm", but being as the fire only indirectly launches the projectiles I think this is borderline acceptable. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]] | :I think it's more appropriate than a crossbow being as it does use fire at some point in the firing sequence and is a weapon, and thus is a "fire"-"arm", but being as the fire only indirectly launches the projectiles I think this is borderline acceptable. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]] | ||
:Ok, now you are talking about semantics between what counts as a firearm. A firearm is a device which projects either single or multiple projectiles at high velocity through a controlled explosion. The firing occurs by the gases produced through rapid, confined burning of a propellant. This process of rapid burning is technically known as deflagration. In older firearms, this propellant was typically black powder, but modern firearms use smokeless powder, cordite, or other propellants. Most modern firearms (with the notable exception of smoothbore shotguns) have rifled barrels to impart spin to the projectile for improved flight stability. A howitzer counts as a firearm. A Rocket launcher counts to a degree. But something like this is just a novelty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC) | :Ok, now you are talking about semantics between what counts as a firearm. A firearm is a device which projects either single or multiple projectiles at high velocity through a controlled explosion. The firing occurs by the gases produced through rapid, confined burning of a propellant. This process of rapid burning is technically known as deflagration. In older firearms, this propellant was typically black powder, but modern firearms use smokeless powder, cordite, or other propellants. Most modern firearms (with the notable exception of smoothbore shotguns) have rifled barrels to impart spin to the projectile for improved flight stability. A howitzer counts as a firearm. A Rocket launcher counts to a degree. But something like this is just a novelty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC) | ||
::I'm more worried about the possibility of this article being the start of a slippery slope. If we allow it just because it propels an object intended to be lethal upon impact, next thing you know someone will use that excuse to create a catapult article or something. The only non-firearms stuff we have right now that I can think of are [[Air Guns|airguns]] (seeing as they can be mistaken for actual firearms by the uninformed) and crossbows (those only get mention because they tend to mimic firearms in terms of use, and they don't even get their own page (save for one that's up for nuking), just in-works examples).--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:29, 26 October 2010 (UTC) | ::I'm more worried about the possibility of this article being the start of a slippery slope. If we allow it just because it propels an object intended to be lethal upon impact, next thing you know someone will use that excuse to create a catapult article or something. The only non-firearms stuff we have right now that I can think of are [[Air Guns|airguns]] (seeing as they can be mistaken for actual firearms by the uninformed) and crossbows (those only get mention because they tend to mimic firearms in terms of use, and they don't even get their own page (save for one that's up for nuking), just in-works examples).--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:29, 26 October 2010 (UTC) | ||
:::Just to clarify about the crossbow thing (as this has been confusing me for some time) you're saying it is okay to list crossbows on movie pages but they do not get their own weapons pages. I fully agree with the reasoning but just want to make sure this is what we're doing as I've seen some movie pages list crossbows and be left alone and others do it and be altered. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]] | |||
Yes, if a movie has a special knife or sword even, something that stands out that is a bit of trivia, it's ok on that particular movie page or TV show it appeared in, but not its own page. | |||
:Got it, Thanks. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]] | |||
I consider this a firearm as long as it fires a projectile from a person intensionally firing it at something. --[[User:Mr. Matt|Mr. Matt]] 20:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
I would appreciate if you would put this page back because i put a lot of work into it if not just let me copy the text so I could save to my documents. --[[User:Mr. Matt|Mr. Matt]] 20:27, 26 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
:: It was deleted for a reason, the fact it had a lot of work in it is a sad one, but irrelevant - I've seen bigger pages with even more effort deleted before. It's just tough. If it doesn't fit the rules or meet any of the criteria of what's allowable on the site as the Admins see it, then it goes. Noting about it's use/appearance on the particular film/TV/game/anime page it is on itself is the only exception, as stated. But it doesn't get it's own page. To add, I'll state that it certainly doesn't need it's own page when it's not strictly a firearm to the letter and is only seen on one other page on the whole site (A page that itself is under consideration for deletion.)<br><br>Simply put, if they say it doesn't warrant it's own page, then it doesn't get one, whatever you may think. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:01, 26 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
== the Text == | |||
Okay I'm a softy as far as admins go. Here is the text.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 00:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
''In 1861, Ross Winans, a locomotive builder in Baltimore, Md., manufactured a steam-powered gun invented by a Charles S. Dickenson. Winans welcomed novelty, a trait he was known for in his locomotive designs, and he applied his enthusiasm for innovation when he produced the steam gun that came to bear his name.'' | |||
''The idea behind the gun was to use steam to hurl a cannonball; his "gun" was supposedly capable of throwing 200 balls a minute (weight unknown) up to 2 miles, of projecting a 100-pound cannon ball and even of firing bullets. The Winans device could be considered an early machine gun, and certain writers have described it by that term. A hopper fed the pivoted gun barrel of the Winans gun, which itself ran on railroad tracks. Winans evidently hoped it might be used to bring the rapidly escalating Civil War to a quick conclusion. Although born in Vernon, N.J., Winans was a Confederate sympathizer who was actively involved in Confederate politics. In May of 1861 Winans shipped his gun south from Baltimore to Harpers Ferry, Va., but on May 11, 1861, Colonel Edward F. Jones of the 6th Massachusetts Regiment under Brigadier General Benjamin F. Butler intercepted Winans' gun. Three days later, Butler captured Winans in Baltimore. Had Secretary of State William H. Seward not interceded on behalf of the millionaire prisoner, Winans might have been hanged for treason. Instead, he was released, a fact that angered Butler for the rest of his life. Through the remainder of the war, the gun protected the Baltimore & Ohio Patuxent River Viaduct.'' | |||
:: Well, gotta have some nice guys in Administration sometimes. :b That was a interesting and pretty well done piece though (Hope nobody minds that I italicized it), despite the fact is isn't really a gun in the strictest sense. I remember reading about the device a LONG time ago in one of my granddad's many Civil War books. Shame us rebs never got a chance to mess with it.. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 14:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
If it shows up in a movie or TV show along with other guns, put in it there. But saying only Mythbusters, which is getting deleted because we are getting rid of such pages anyway [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 18:00, 27 October 2010
Is this technically a firearm? Sure it uses fire to power the steam engine but that still seems like a bit of a stretch. -Anonymous
It's does fire projectiles and is a "real world" weapon as opposed to the whole "steam punk" genre of weapons but it does fall outside of the parameters of what is listed on this web site. --Charon68 00:27, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
But it doesn't use gunpowder to fire anything. It's like making a page with crossbows. Excalibur01 01:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- I think it's more appropriate than a crossbow being as it does use fire at some point in the firing sequence and is a weapon, and thus is a "fire"-"arm", but being as the fire only indirectly launches the projectiles I think this is borderline acceptable. -Anonymous
- Ok, now you are talking about semantics between what counts as a firearm. A firearm is a device which projects either single or multiple projectiles at high velocity through a controlled explosion. The firing occurs by the gases produced through rapid, confined burning of a propellant. This process of rapid burning is technically known as deflagration. In older firearms, this propellant was typically black powder, but modern firearms use smokeless powder, cordite, or other propellants. Most modern firearms (with the notable exception of smoothbore shotguns) have rifled barrels to impart spin to the projectile for improved flight stability. A howitzer counts as a firearm. A Rocket launcher counts to a degree. But something like this is just a novelty. Excalibur01 02:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- I'm more worried about the possibility of this article being the start of a slippery slope. If we allow it just because it propels an object intended to be lethal upon impact, next thing you know someone will use that excuse to create a catapult article or something. The only non-firearms stuff we have right now that I can think of are airguns (seeing as they can be mistaken for actual firearms by the uninformed) and crossbows (those only get mention because they tend to mimic firearms in terms of use, and they don't even get their own page (save for one that's up for nuking), just in-works examples).--PistolJunkie 03:29, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- Just to clarify about the crossbow thing (as this has been confusing me for some time) you're saying it is okay to list crossbows on movie pages but they do not get their own weapons pages. I fully agree with the reasoning but just want to make sure this is what we're doing as I've seen some movie pages list crossbows and be left alone and others do it and be altered. -Anonymous
Yes, if a movie has a special knife or sword even, something that stands out that is a bit of trivia, it's ok on that particular movie page or TV show it appeared in, but not its own page.
- Got it, Thanks. -Anonymous
I consider this a firearm as long as it fires a projectile from a person intensionally firing it at something. --Mr. Matt 20:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I would appreciate if you would put this page back because i put a lot of work into it if not just let me copy the text so I could save to my documents. --Mr. Matt 20:27, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- It was deleted for a reason, the fact it had a lot of work in it is a sad one, but irrelevant - I've seen bigger pages with even more effort deleted before. It's just tough. If it doesn't fit the rules or meet any of the criteria of what's allowable on the site as the Admins see it, then it goes. Noting about it's use/appearance on the particular film/TV/game/anime page it is on itself is the only exception, as stated. But it doesn't get it's own page. To add, I'll state that it certainly doesn't need it's own page when it's not strictly a firearm to the letter and is only seen on one other page on the whole site (A page that itself is under consideration for deletion.)
Simply put, if they say it doesn't warrant it's own page, then it doesn't get one, whatever you may think. StanTheMan 22:01, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- It was deleted for a reason, the fact it had a lot of work in it is a sad one, but irrelevant - I've seen bigger pages with even more effort deleted before. It's just tough. If it doesn't fit the rules or meet any of the criteria of what's allowable on the site as the Admins see it, then it goes. Noting about it's use/appearance on the particular film/TV/game/anime page it is on itself is the only exception, as stated. But it doesn't get it's own page. To add, I'll state that it certainly doesn't need it's own page when it's not strictly a firearm to the letter and is only seen on one other page on the whole site (A page that itself is under consideration for deletion.)
the Text
Okay I'm a softy as far as admins go. Here is the text.--Jcordell 00:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
In 1861, Ross Winans, a locomotive builder in Baltimore, Md., manufactured a steam-powered gun invented by a Charles S. Dickenson. Winans welcomed novelty, a trait he was known for in his locomotive designs, and he applied his enthusiasm for innovation when he produced the steam gun that came to bear his name.
The idea behind the gun was to use steam to hurl a cannonball; his "gun" was supposedly capable of throwing 200 balls a minute (weight unknown) up to 2 miles, of projecting a 100-pound cannon ball and even of firing bullets. The Winans device could be considered an early machine gun, and certain writers have described it by that term. A hopper fed the pivoted gun barrel of the Winans gun, which itself ran on railroad tracks. Winans evidently hoped it might be used to bring the rapidly escalating Civil War to a quick conclusion. Although born in Vernon, N.J., Winans was a Confederate sympathizer who was actively involved in Confederate politics. In May of 1861 Winans shipped his gun south from Baltimore to Harpers Ferry, Va., but on May 11, 1861, Colonel Edward F. Jones of the 6th Massachusetts Regiment under Brigadier General Benjamin F. Butler intercepted Winans' gun. Three days later, Butler captured Winans in Baltimore. Had Secretary of State William H. Seward not interceded on behalf of the millionaire prisoner, Winans might have been hanged for treason. Instead, he was released, a fact that angered Butler for the rest of his life. Through the remainder of the war, the gun protected the Baltimore & Ohio Patuxent River Viaduct.
- Well, gotta have some nice guys in Administration sometimes. :b That was a interesting and pretty well done piece though (Hope nobody minds that I italicized it), despite the fact is isn't really a gun in the strictest sense. I remember reading about the device a LONG time ago in one of my granddad's many Civil War books. Shame us rebs never got a chance to mess with it.. StanTheMan 14:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
If it shows up in a movie or TV show along with other guns, put in it there. But saying only Mythbusters, which is getting deleted because we are getting rid of such pages anyway Excalibur01 18:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)