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Talk:The X-Files - Season 4: Difference between revisions

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'''The following firearms were used in Season 4 of the television series [[The X-Files]].'''
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== Pistols ==
=Additional Images (Moved from Main Page)=
===Makarov PM===
[[File:XF-S4E02-SIGP226-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Special Agent Fox Mulder with his P226 in-hand in "Home" (S4E02).]]
In the episode "Terma" (S4E09), a number of Russian guards on horseback are seen armed with [[Makarov PM]] handguns as they shoot at Mulder while he is escaping the Tunguska gulag during "Terma" (S4E09).
[[Image:XF-S4E02-SIGP225-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Scully ([[Gillian Anderson]]) continues to fire her [[SIG-Sauer P225]] in "Home" (S4E02).]]
[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Makarov PM 9.18mm PM]]
[[File:XF-S4E07-Remington742-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The younger Cigarette-Smoking Man ([[Chris Owens]]) with the [[Remington 7400|Remington 742]] in "Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07).]]
[[Image:XFiles3X09Makarov.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Russian gulag guards fire Makarov pistols during "Terma" (S4E09)]]
[[Image:XF-S4E17-SIGP225.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Scully fires her P225 near the conclusion of "Tempus Fugit" (S4E17).]]
[[Image:XFilesP226-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Special Agent Mulder ([[David Duchovny]]) wields his [[SIG-Sauer P226]] during a UFO event in "Max" (S4E18).]]
[[Image:XFiles4X24P225.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Scully aims her P225 in the series finale "Gethsemane" (S4E24).]]


=== SIG-Sauer P225 ===
=Discussion=
There were several episodes, mostly in Season 5, where Scully used a [[SIG-Sauer P225]] rather than the [[SIG-Sauer P228|P228]] she used normally. This might have occurred because the show's armorer was unable to bring a P228 on-set for those particular episodes. Scully used the P225 from "Unruhe" (S4E02) until  "The End" (S5E20).
== Cigarette-Smoking Man's Rifles ==
His first rifle must be a [[Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle]] and the second one a [[Remington Model 760]]. But the screen guns doesn't match the real rifles used in these famous assassination. Does X-Files setting differs from the real world so much that even the murder weapons in JFK and MLK assassinations are different? [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 13:53, 16 August 2014 (EDT)


[[Image:SIG-Sauer-P225.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer P225 - 9.19mm, 8 round magazine]]
They make reference to planting a rifle (presumably the Carcano) in the book depository, but it's never seen outside of the wrapping in the actual show. As for the Remington, apparently they just didn't know/didn't bother, though admittedly you never really get a good look at the weapon in the episode. [[User:Nototter|Nototter]] ([[User talk:Nototter|talk]]) 16:48, 16 August 2014 (EDT)
[[Image:XFilesP225-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Former Russian KGB agent Vassily Peskow ([[Jan Pubes]]) holds Scully at gunpoint with her P225 in "Terma" (S4E09)]]
:Thanks for clarification. BTW, I think that Oswald's revolver is a [[Colt Detective Special]]. [[User:Greg-Z|Greg-Z]] ([[User talk:Greg-Z|talk]]) 16:55, 16 August 2014 (EDT)
Thanks, I've added it. Never was any good at IDing revolvers. [[User:Nototter|Nototter]] ([[User talk:Nototter|talk]]) 18:36, 16 August 2014 (EDT)


=== SIG-Sauer P226 ===
I do not thing the rifle is a 760, as due to the fact it has a bolt handle on the bolt this implies it is a semi-auot rather than a pump. Mu guess would be a [[Remington Model 7400|Remington Model 742]]. While I am here, the assassins pistol is some sort of CZ75, and I think the last unidentified pistol is a P226.  --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:18, 19 August 2014 (EDT)
Starting with "Little Green Men" (S2E01), Fox Mulder ([[David Duchovny]]) used a [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG-Sauer P226]]. Following this episode, Mulder carried the P226 for the entirety of the show, with the exception of Season 3, when he and Scully both used [[Smith & Wesson 5906]]s.
: I think commando is spot-on with his guesses, I definitely agree with a CZ for the assassin's pistol. The other pistol I agree is a high-cap SIG (you can see the frame bulge, barely) - I would have said P228, but I can see what looks to be the angled re-curved/squared-off trigger guard, which would make it a 226. To add, I think 'Mulder's revolver' is most probably a S&W Model 10, and the 'MP5K' is probably another Kimel mockup as seen in the other seasons of the show. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 20:51, 19 August 2014 (EDT)


[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|350px|SIG-Sauer P226 - 9.19mm, right side]]
::I concur that the assassin's pistol in S4E18 is a CZ-75. Also, Krycek's (currently unidentified) pistol in S4E09 is a P228, not a P226. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 22:17, 19 August 2014 (EDT)
[[Image:XFilesP226-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|S4E18 "Max"]]
::: Hard to tell for me.. It still kinda looks like it has the squared-off trigger guard. But I admit the slide doesn't look quite long enough for a 226. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 14:01, 20 August 2014 (EDT)
[[Image:XFilesP226-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From S4E18 "Max". This is probably the best close-up of Mulder's SIG P226 in the entire show.]]


===Smith & Wesson 5906===
::::It's a P228. The image that is posted is too low-res, but if you watch the show on Netflix, you'll see that it has the P228-style grips (granted, the P226 grips were later re-designed to look like the 228's, but not at the time that the episode aired), the slide is too short, and it has the number of serrations consistent with a P228 slide. I considered the possibility that this is the P225, but it has the wrong grip style, and it also clearly has a double-stack frame.
Although they use SIG-Sauer pistols in Season 2, both Mulder and Scully switch to using [[Smith & Wesson 5900 pistol series#Smith & Wesson 5906|Smith & Wesson 5906]]s as their sidearms for all of Season 3. After this season, they resume using their respective SIG pistols (P226 for Mulder, P228 for Scully). Skinner is also seen using a 5906 as his carry weapon. The 5906, chambered to fire 9 mm Luger (Parabellum) ammunition, has fully ambidextrous safety levers, a one piece rear wraparound grip, construction is all stainless steel. The 5906 (S&W 3rd generation) version used by Mulder and Scully has an adjustable rear sight, black trigger and hammer.


Mulder and Scully used the 5906 from "D.P.O." (S3E03) until "Herrenvolk" (S4E01).
::::Also, the nickel-plated pistol used by the gray-haired assassin in "Memento Mori" (S4E14) is a nickel-plated [[Jericho 941]], not a [[Taurus PT92]]. It's probably the same Jericho used previously in "Apocrypha" (S3E16) by the assassin Luis Cardinal. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 14:27, 20 August 2014 (EDT)


''NOTE: Several users have suggested that these pistols might be the [[Smith & Wesson 1076]] in 10mm, which was briefly used by the FBI. This is incorrect; the 1076 has a single-stack frame, while the pistols in the show have double-stack frames, meaning that they can only be the model S&W 5906. The show's guns are not the .40-caliber model 4006, because the 4006's frame features checkering on the grip, missing on the show's Smith & Wessons (the 5906 frame has vertical grooves on the grip). The model S&W 1076 can be easily distinguished from the S&W 5906, as the 1076 is hammerless, has no manual safety and a frame mounted de-cocking lever. This is a TV show, not real life, and movie/television armorers have always tended to use 9mm pistols rather than larger calibers, because 9mm blanks are more reliable to cycle in pistols than larger calibers.
:::::One other thing I just noticed while watching "Tunguska" (S4E08): There are no [[M16A1]]s in the episode. If you look closely, you'll see they're all Colt Model 715s/Olympic Arms K4Bs that have been fitted with M16A1 hand guards. Give away is presence of the brass deflector (which you can just see in one of the screencaps), but also the fact that a close-up of the barrel firing shows it's a heavy A2-style barrel profile, not a thinner A1-style barrel. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 14:30, 20 August 2014 (EDT)


[[File:S&W 5906 late adjustable sights.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Smith & Wesson 5906, late model with adjustable sights - 9.19mm]]
Like I said, certainly not long enough for a 226, so I suppose it can only be a 228. I agree totally about the Colt Model 715s (can certainly see the deflector in that one cap) and the Jericho (I've seen Jerichos pop up in the show, and certainly remembered one being in S3/S4 somewhere). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 20:15, 20 August 2014 (EDT)
[[Image:XFiles5906-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Herrenvolk" (S4E01)]]


:The only part of the SIG that I can make out from that pic is the double stack frame and what still to me looks like the trigger guard of a P226, but if it is seen better in different shots I will take your word for it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 11:36, 21 August 2014 (EDT)


===Ruger KP89===
:Here's another screenshot of it from Netflix:
'Deep Throat' ([[Jerry Hardin]]) uses a [[Ruger KP89]] to shoot an alien in "Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07).


[[Image:MCSMDeepThroatPistol1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'Deep Throat' draws his pistol ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
:[[Image:XFiles4x08-P228-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:MCSMDeepThroatPistol2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'Deep Throat' offers his pistol to the Cigarette-Smoking Man ([[William B. Davis]]) ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSMDeepThroatPistol3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'Deep Throat' aims his pistol at the alien ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSMDeepThroatPistol4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'Deep Throat' lowers the pistol ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]


===Oswald's revolver===
:Really don't see any evidence that it has a hooked P226 (or P225)-style trigger guard. The "pebbled" grips also mean it's more likely to be a P228 (even though later-generation P226s had a similar grip style). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 12:25, 21 August 2014 (EDT)
Lee Harvey Oswald uses a revolver to shoot a policeman during episode "Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07).
:: The hook on the trigger guard here looks more like a trick of light in this image, so I guess that explains that. Otherwise, with the grips and slide, I concur with listing it as a P228. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 12:43, 21 August 2014 (EDT)
 
:::Thanks, seeing that better image I agree that it is a P228. I think what is happening with the trigger guard that threw me off is that the serrated portion reflects the light less, so the unserrated part at the bottom looks like it kicks out to the front under that lighting. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:25, 21 August 2014 (EDT)
[[Image:MCSMRevolver1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Oswald picks up his snub-nosed revolver ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSMRevolver3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Oswald fires his revolver at a policeman("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSMRevolver2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot of Oswald firing the revolver ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
 
===Unknown pistol===
During "Tunguska" (S4E09), Alex Krycek ([[Nicholas Lea]]) tosses an unknown pistol out of the window of a truck when he surrenders to Mulder.
[[Image:XFiles4X08Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Krycek's pistol on the ground ("Tunguska" (S4E08))]]
 
===Unknown police revolvers===
During "Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07), the police who attempt to Lee Harvey Oswald are armed with various revolvers. None are seen very clearly.
 
[[Image:MCSMPolicerevolver.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A policeman with a snub-nosed revolver looking for JFK's assassin ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSMPolicerevolver2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A policeman with a revolver looking for JFK's assassin ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSMPolicerevolver3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A policeman with a holstered revolver after being shot by Lee Harvey Oswald ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
 
 
== Rifles ==
===M16A1 rifle===
The M16A1 rifle was used on a regular basis throughout ''The X-Files'' run as either a military and/or SWAT weapon. M16A1 rifles are used by the militia gunmen and several FBI agents in the episode "Tunguska" ((S4E08).
 
[[Image:M16A1w30rdMag.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A1 with 30 Round magazine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:XFiles3X08M161.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An FBI agent cocks his M16A1 rifle. ("Tunguska" (S4E08))]]
[[Image:Xfiles Tunguska Militia.JPG|thumb|none|600px|An M16A1 in the hands of one of the militia during "Tunguska"((S4E07)).]]
 
===M14 rifle===
Used by a militia gunman in the episode "Tunguska" ((S4E08).
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M14 rifle - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:XFiles3X08m14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The gunman aims his M14 rifle during "Tunguska" (S4E08))]]
[[Image:Xfiles Tunguska Militia.JPG|thumb|none|600px|An M14 is seen in the hands of a militia gunman ("Tunguska" (S4E08))]]
 
===Norinco Type 84S===
The [[AK-47#Norinco Type 84|Norinco Type 84S]] was often used on the show by Russian soldiers (as an [[AK-74]] stand-in).  It was first seen used by guards at the Tunguska gulag in the episode "Terma" ((S4E09).
 
[[Image:NorincoType84SRifle.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Norinco Type 84S 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:NorincoType84SFolder.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Norinco Type 84S Underfolder Model - 5.56mm]]
 
===The Cigarette-Smoking Man's Rifles===
The Cigarette-Smoking Man uses three rifles during "Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07).
 
====First Rifle====
[[Image:MCSMRifle1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle used by the Cigarette-Smoking Man to assassinate JFK ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSMRifle2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle used by the Cigarette-Smoking Man to assassinate JFK ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSMRifle3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle used by the Cigarette-Smoking Man to assassinate JFK ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSMRifle4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle used by the Cigarette-Smoking Man to assassinate JFK ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
 
====Second Rifle====
[[Image:MCSM2Rifle1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The butt of the rifle used by the Cigarette-Smoking Man to assassinate Martin Luther King ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSM2Rifle2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle used by the Cigarette-Smoking Man to assassinate Martin Luther King ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSM2Rifle3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle used by the Cigarette-Smoking Man to assassinate Martin Luther King ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
 
====Third Rifle====
[[Ruger Super Redhawk]] rifle mockup.
[[Image:MCSM3Rifle1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle the Cigarette-Smoking Man aims at Frohike ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSM3Rifle2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle the Cigarette-Smoking Man aims at Frohike ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSM3Rifle3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle the Cigarette-Smoking Man aims at Frohike ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSM3Rifle4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle the Cigarette-Smoking Man aims at Frohike in the background, on its tripod ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
[[Image:MCSM3Rifle5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle the Cigarette-Smoking Man aims at Frohike ("Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07))]]
 
==Submachine guns==
 
===MP5A3===
Dana Scully ([[Gillian Anderson]]) uses an MP5A3 with an attached flashlight during the FBI raid on the militia in "Tunguska" (S4E08)
[[Image:MP002M-1.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Makarov PM 9.18mm PM]]
[[Image:XFilesMP5Scully.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Scully, on the left, with her MP5A3 ("Tunguska" (S4E08))]]
[[Image:XFilesMP5Scully2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Scully aims the MP5A3 during the raid ("Tunguska" (S4E08))]]
 
==Shotguns==
===Fox Mulder's shotgun===
Fox Mulder ([[David Duchovny]]) uses an unkown shotgun with a pistol grip and mounted flashlight during the FBI raid on the militia group in "Tunguska" (S4E08).
[[Image:XFiles4X08MulderShotgun2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Fox Mulder with his shotgun in "Tunguska" (S4E08)]]
[[Image:XFiles4X08MulderShotgun3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another view of Mulder's shotgun ("Tunguska" (S4E08))]]
[[Image:XFiles4X08MulderShotgun4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mulder aims his shotgun at Krycek in "Tunguska" (S4E08)]]
[[Image:XFiles4X08MulderShotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Fox Mulder (on the right) with his shotgun in "Tunguska" (S4E08)]]
 
[[Category:Storage]]

Latest revision as of 00:19, 29 July 2023


Additional Images (Moved from Main Page)

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Special Agent Fox Mulder with his P226 in-hand in "Home" (S4E02).
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Scully (Gillian Anderson) continues to fire her SIG-Sauer P225 in "Home" (S4E02).
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The younger Cigarette-Smoking Man (Chris Owens) with the Remington 742 in "Musings of a Cigarette-Smoking Man" (S4E07).
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Scully fires her P225 near the conclusion of "Tempus Fugit" (S4E17).
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Special Agent Mulder (David Duchovny) wields his SIG-Sauer P226 during a UFO event in "Max" (S4E18).
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Scully aims her P225 in the series finale "Gethsemane" (S4E24).

Discussion

Cigarette-Smoking Man's Rifles

His first rifle must be a Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle and the second one a Remington Model 760. But the screen guns doesn't match the real rifles used in these famous assassination. Does X-Files setting differs from the real world so much that even the murder weapons in JFK and MLK assassinations are different? Greg-Z (talk) 13:53, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

They make reference to planting a rifle (presumably the Carcano) in the book depository, but it's never seen outside of the wrapping in the actual show. As for the Remington, apparently they just didn't know/didn't bother, though admittedly you never really get a good look at the weapon in the episode. Nototter (talk) 16:48, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

Thanks for clarification. BTW, I think that Oswald's revolver is a Colt Detective Special. Greg-Z (talk) 16:55, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

Thanks, I've added it. Never was any good at IDing revolvers. Nototter (talk) 18:36, 16 August 2014 (EDT)

I do not thing the rifle is a 760, as due to the fact it has a bolt handle on the bolt this implies it is a semi-auot rather than a pump. Mu guess would be a Remington Model 742. While I am here, the assassins pistol is some sort of CZ75, and I think the last unidentified pistol is a P226. --commando552 (talk) 20:18, 19 August 2014 (EDT)

I think commando is spot-on with his guesses, I definitely agree with a CZ for the assassin's pistol. The other pistol I agree is a high-cap SIG (you can see the frame bulge, barely) - I would have said P228, but I can see what looks to be the angled re-curved/squared-off trigger guard, which would make it a 226. To add, I think 'Mulder's revolver' is most probably a S&W Model 10, and the 'MP5K' is probably another Kimel mockup as seen in the other seasons of the show. StanTheMan (talk) 20:51, 19 August 2014 (EDT)
I concur that the assassin's pistol in S4E18 is a CZ-75. Also, Krycek's (currently unidentified) pistol in S4E09 is a P228, not a P226. -MT2008 (talk) 22:17, 19 August 2014 (EDT)
Hard to tell for me.. It still kinda looks like it has the squared-off trigger guard. But I admit the slide doesn't look quite long enough for a 226. StanTheMan (talk) 14:01, 20 August 2014 (EDT)
It's a P228. The image that is posted is too low-res, but if you watch the show on Netflix, you'll see that it has the P228-style grips (granted, the P226 grips were later re-designed to look like the 228's, but not at the time that the episode aired), the slide is too short, and it has the number of serrations consistent with a P228 slide. I considered the possibility that this is the P225, but it has the wrong grip style, and it also clearly has a double-stack frame.
Also, the nickel-plated pistol used by the gray-haired assassin in "Memento Mori" (S4E14) is a nickel-plated Jericho 941, not a Taurus PT92. It's probably the same Jericho used previously in "Apocrypha" (S3E16) by the assassin Luis Cardinal. -MT2008 (talk) 14:27, 20 August 2014 (EDT)
One other thing I just noticed while watching "Tunguska" (S4E08): There are no M16A1s in the episode. If you look closely, you'll see they're all Colt Model 715s/Olympic Arms K4Bs that have been fitted with M16A1 hand guards. Give away is presence of the brass deflector (which you can just see in one of the screencaps), but also the fact that a close-up of the barrel firing shows it's a heavy A2-style barrel profile, not a thinner A1-style barrel. -MT2008 (talk) 14:30, 20 August 2014 (EDT)

Like I said, certainly not long enough for a 226, so I suppose it can only be a 228. I agree totally about the Colt Model 715s (can certainly see the deflector in that one cap) and the Jericho (I've seen Jerichos pop up in the show, and certainly remembered one being in S3/S4 somewhere). StanTheMan (talk) 20:15, 20 August 2014 (EDT)

The only part of the SIG that I can make out from that pic is the double stack frame and what still to me looks like the trigger guard of a P226, but if it is seen better in different shots I will take your word for it. --commando552 (talk) 11:36, 21 August 2014 (EDT)
Here's another screenshot of it from Netflix:
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Really don't see any evidence that it has a hooked P226 (or P225)-style trigger guard. The "pebbled" grips also mean it's more likely to be a P228 (even though later-generation P226s had a similar grip style). -MT2008 (talk) 12:25, 21 August 2014 (EDT)
The hook on the trigger guard here looks more like a trick of light in this image, so I guess that explains that. Otherwise, with the grips and slide, I concur with listing it as a P228. StanTheMan (talk) 12:43, 21 August 2014 (EDT)
Thanks, seeing that better image I agree that it is a P228. I think what is happening with the trigger guard that threw me off is that the serrated portion reflects the light less, so the unserrated part at the bottom looks like it kicks out to the front under that lighting. --commando552 (talk) 19:25, 21 August 2014 (EDT)
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