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Talk:Tombstone: Difference between revisions
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==Locating Evans Repeating Rifle == | |||
I can't find in the movie where this rifle is seen. Please help locate where it is in the film. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 21:38, 30 April 2015 (EDT) | |||
Cowboy gang member Pony Deal ([[Forrie J. Smith]]) carries an [[Evans Repeating Rifle|Evans Rifle]], a 28-shot rifle manufactured in the 1870s by Evans of Maine. | |||
[[Image:EvansB.jpg|thumb|none|400px| Evans Repeating Rifle "Sporter" configuration with 26 inch barrel.]] | |||
~This firearm looks more like the smith and wesson No. 3 Russian model in the film, especially given the long flat expanse behind the hammer.~ | ~This firearm looks more like the smith and wesson No. 3 Russian model in the film, especially given the long flat expanse behind the hammer.~ | ||
- If you look at the screenshot provided, the triggerguard has no spur coming off of it. Might be a Russian model with some damage? | - If you look at the screenshot provided, the triggerguard has no spur coming off of it. Might be a Russian model with some damage? | ||
It's definitely NOT a Russian. The only feature it has in common with the Russian is a mount for a lanyard ring, which only the Russian model had; an existing Schofield could have easily had that added. Plus, it's lacking the Russian's distinctive trigger-guard spur, as the poster above noted. But there are two basic structural differences between the gun pictured here and the Russian; the Russian had a differently-shaped grip than the standard Schofield; it was more rounded at the corners, not so squared-off...and the Russian model had a distinctive "bump" along the back of the grip just behind the hammer that the regular Schofield didn't have. This weapon is not a Russian. | It's definitely NOT a Russian. The only feature it has in common with the Russian is a mount for a lanyard ring, which only the Russian model had; an existing Schofield could have easily had that added. Plus, it's lacking the Russian's distinctive trigger-guard spur, as the poster above noted. But there are two basic structural differences between the gun pictured here and the Russian; the Russian had a differently-shaped grip than the standard Schofield; it was more rounded at the corners, not so squared-off...and the Russian model had a distinctive "bump" along the back of the grip just behind the hammer that the regular Schofield didn't have. This weapon is not a Russian. | ||
== Kate's gun == | |||
Kate ([[Joanna Pacula]]), Doc Holliday's girlfriend, carries a [[Colt Lightning|Colt Lightning Shopkeeper]], drawing it on a saloon keeper when Doc stabs Ed Bailey. | |||
[[Image:DSC02878.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Colt Lightning, Shopkeeper model]] | |||
[[Image:Tomb-coltlights1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kate draws her Lightning Shopkeeper on the saloon keeper when he reaches for a shotgun.]] | |||
[[Image:Tomb-coltlights2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kate aims her Lightning Shopkeeper at the other saloon patrons.]] | |||
That's NOT a lightning that Kate has there. The gun is smaller and the cylinder and flutes are too short to be a lightning. Its one of the many cheap solid frame DA pistols of the era. Looks more like a "British Bulldog" or some variant of that. | |||
Actually, contrary to the earlier post, that IS a Lightning that Kate is packing. It is not a Cimarron New Model Lightning, which is a modern invention, but rather an historical Lightning double-action with the appropriate long flutes and small stature. Its size is due to the fact that it was chambered in the diminutive .38 Colt cartridge. | |||
I disagree. The profile isn't quite right to be a Lightning. It's some variant of a Bulldog as I stated above. There's no way that's a Lightning. I'd bet my entire gun collection on that. | |||
Check this thread on the Coltforum that shows a picture of guns from the movie. It shows the picture of the "bulldog" that Kate had in the movie: | |||
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=143268&posted=1#post143268 | |||
Here's a picture of some Forehand and Wadsworth British Bulldogs which is what Kate is holding. I wish I could just post this picture on here and get rid of the picture of the lightning but I can't seem to do that. This is the type of gun she is holding. It is definitely NOT a Colt of any type: http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv236/twaits/forehand.jpg | |||
I'm gonna have to agree that it's a Bulldog. Look at the second picture, at the black grip of her gun. On the Lightning, the grip ends in a flat, horizontal line. The Bulldog, however, ends with a diagonal. The pistol she's using obviously has a diagonal end to it's grip, and therefore, it's a bulldog. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:31, 19 June 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Editors == | |||
Anyone else notice when Doc fires three shots out of a double barrel shotgun. I assume it's supposed to be a different angle of the same shot but I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it on here yet! | |||
There are currently a number of errors here with the "Tombstone" listing on imfdb. Among them are the fact that Peter Sherayko did not carry "Artillery" Model SAAs. He carries a pair of nickel plated SAAs with 4.75 inch barrels, sometimes referred to as "Quickdraw" models on this database. I worked on the set of this film for 12 weeks during the summer of 1993, and have known Mr. Sherayko for many years. There were very few "Artillery" model SAAs used in the film. However, Thomas Church and Jason Priestly both carried SAAs with 5.5 inch barrels, as did several other "cowboys". | |||
The listing also claims that someone is carrying a Kentucky Rifle. Well, that is untrue. The person in the screen grab in question is Larry Zeug and he is carrying a Sharps Rifle. Larry was one of 30 men who were hired to portray the back-up members of "The Cowboys" (as was my father and myself). Many of us were used as mounted extras when not wearing red sashes. Larry, himself a journeyman gunsmith, often carried his Sharps. I was there the night this scene was filmed and will attest that that is the weapon he is seen carrying. ~Sam Dolan | |||
Doc also fires at least 12 shots or more from both of his six shot revolvers.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 03:37, 15 July 2012 (CDT) | |||
== Ike Clanton's Winchester Rifle == | |||
The rifle Ike is carrying in the beginning of the film (as the Cowboys are walking towards the wedding) is ''not'' a '''Winchester Model 1876''', but a '''Model 1873'''. If you look closely at the reciever, you can tell by two details; | |||
The back of the recierver on ike's rifle extends quite a bit from the back of the sideplate (as it does on the Model 1873). On the Model 1876 however, the reciever ends and meets the stock almost immediately at the rear end of the sideplate. | |||
'''''Winchester 1873 with the longer rear end of the reciever.''''' | |||
[[Image:Winchester1873short.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The 1873 "Short Rifle" model with octagon barrel]] | |||
'''''Winchester 1876 and it's reciever.''''' | |||
[[Image:New_centennial.jpg|none|500px|thumb| Winchester Model 1876 "sporting" configuration in 45-60 WCF with 26 inch barrel]] | |||
'''''Now, comepare the reciever on Ike's Winchester with the ones above.''''' | |||
[[Image:Tomb-win1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ringo ([[Michael Biehn]]) prepares a Model '76 during the opening shootout. (*Actually that is once again Ike Clanton. You can distinguish him by his shirt color, handkerchief pattern, and his location relative to Thomas Haden Church, as in the next image.)]] | |||
An other givaway is the screw, clearly visible on the back of the reciever of Ike's rifle. The screw is located in the lower part of the rear end of the reciever (as on the Model 1873). On the 1876, the equivalent screw is located in the middle of the rear end of the reciever. --[[User:Buzz Cadero|Buzz Cadero]] 17:51, 19 November 2011 (CST) | |||
== New information on Big Nose Kates Bulldog == | |||
There is an article on Bulldog revolvers that shows a picture of the actual gun that the actress was holding in Tombstone. | |||
So the database here is not quite right. It's not a Webley British Bulldog she is holding but a Forehand and Wadsworth .32. Here's the article: | |||
http://www.gundigest.com/wp-content/uploads/6ShooterSpecialFinal.pdf | |||
== Under Table Shotgun--Anachronism == | |||
The shotgun mounted under the table appears to have a monobloc breech, which was invented by Henri Pieper in 1881, and subsequently licensed to Remington. (I have an original Pieper Diana from 1883). This is two years after the timeframe in the movie.[[User:Mzmadmike|Mzmadmike]] ([[User talk:Mzmadmike|talk]]) 17:11, 26 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 17:11, 26 July 2023
Locating Evans Repeating Rifle
I can't find in the movie where this rifle is seen. Please help locate where it is in the film. --Ben41 (talk) 21:38, 30 April 2015 (EDT)
Cowboy gang member Pony Deal (Forrie J. Smith) carries an Evans Rifle, a 28-shot rifle manufactured in the 1870s by Evans of Maine.
~This firearm looks more like the smith and wesson No. 3 Russian model in the film, especially given the long flat expanse behind the hammer.~ - If you look at the screenshot provided, the triggerguard has no spur coming off of it. Might be a Russian model with some damage?
It's definitely NOT a Russian. The only feature it has in common with the Russian is a mount for a lanyard ring, which only the Russian model had; an existing Schofield could have easily had that added. Plus, it's lacking the Russian's distinctive trigger-guard spur, as the poster above noted. But there are two basic structural differences between the gun pictured here and the Russian; the Russian had a differently-shaped grip than the standard Schofield; it was more rounded at the corners, not so squared-off...and the Russian model had a distinctive "bump" along the back of the grip just behind the hammer that the regular Schofield didn't have. This weapon is not a Russian.
Kate's gun
Kate (Joanna Pacula), Doc Holliday's girlfriend, carries a Colt Lightning Shopkeeper, drawing it on a saloon keeper when Doc stabs Ed Bailey.
That's NOT a lightning that Kate has there. The gun is smaller and the cylinder and flutes are too short to be a lightning. Its one of the many cheap solid frame DA pistols of the era. Looks more like a "British Bulldog" or some variant of that.
Actually, contrary to the earlier post, that IS a Lightning that Kate is packing. It is not a Cimarron New Model Lightning, which is a modern invention, but rather an historical Lightning double-action with the appropriate long flutes and small stature. Its size is due to the fact that it was chambered in the diminutive .38 Colt cartridge.
I disagree. The profile isn't quite right to be a Lightning. It's some variant of a Bulldog as I stated above. There's no way that's a Lightning. I'd bet my entire gun collection on that.
Check this thread on the Coltforum that shows a picture of guns from the movie. It shows the picture of the "bulldog" that Kate had in the movie:
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=143268&posted=1#post143268
Here's a picture of some Forehand and Wadsworth British Bulldogs which is what Kate is holding. I wish I could just post this picture on here and get rid of the picture of the lightning but I can't seem to do that. This is the type of gun she is holding. It is definitely NOT a Colt of any type: http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv236/twaits/forehand.jpg
I'm gonna have to agree that it's a Bulldog. Look at the second picture, at the black grip of her gun. On the Lightning, the grip ends in a flat, horizontal line. The Bulldog, however, ends with a diagonal. The pistol she's using obviously has a diagonal end to it's grip, and therefore, it's a bulldog. Acora 16:31, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Editors
Anyone else notice when Doc fires three shots out of a double barrel shotgun. I assume it's supposed to be a different angle of the same shot but I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it on here yet!
There are currently a number of errors here with the "Tombstone" listing on imfdb. Among them are the fact that Peter Sherayko did not carry "Artillery" Model SAAs. He carries a pair of nickel plated SAAs with 4.75 inch barrels, sometimes referred to as "Quickdraw" models on this database. I worked on the set of this film for 12 weeks during the summer of 1993, and have known Mr. Sherayko for many years. There were very few "Artillery" model SAAs used in the film. However, Thomas Church and Jason Priestly both carried SAAs with 5.5 inch barrels, as did several other "cowboys".
The listing also claims that someone is carrying a Kentucky Rifle. Well, that is untrue. The person in the screen grab in question is Larry Zeug and he is carrying a Sharps Rifle. Larry was one of 30 men who were hired to portray the back-up members of "The Cowboys" (as was my father and myself). Many of us were used as mounted extras when not wearing red sashes. Larry, himself a journeyman gunsmith, often carried his Sharps. I was there the night this scene was filmed and will attest that that is the weapon he is seen carrying. ~Sam Dolan
Doc also fires at least 12 shots or more from both of his six shot revolvers.Kornflakes89 03:37, 15 July 2012 (CDT)
Ike Clanton's Winchester Rifle
The rifle Ike is carrying in the beginning of the film (as the Cowboys are walking towards the wedding) is not a Winchester Model 1876, but a Model 1873. If you look closely at the reciever, you can tell by two details;
The back of the recierver on ike's rifle extends quite a bit from the back of the sideplate (as it does on the Model 1873). On the Model 1876 however, the reciever ends and meets the stock almost immediately at the rear end of the sideplate.
Winchester 1873 with the longer rear end of the reciever.
Winchester 1876 and it's reciever.
Now, comepare the reciever on Ike's Winchester with the ones above.
An other givaway is the screw, clearly visible on the back of the reciever of Ike's rifle. The screw is located in the lower part of the rear end of the reciever (as on the Model 1873). On the 1876, the equivalent screw is located in the middle of the rear end of the reciever. --Buzz Cadero 17:51, 19 November 2011 (CST)
New information on Big Nose Kates Bulldog
There is an article on Bulldog revolvers that shows a picture of the actual gun that the actress was holding in Tombstone. So the database here is not quite right. It's not a Webley British Bulldog she is holding but a Forehand and Wadsworth .32. Here's the article:
http://www.gundigest.com/wp-content/uploads/6ShooterSpecialFinal.pdf
Under Table Shotgun--Anachronism
The shotgun mounted under the table appears to have a monobloc breech, which was invented by Henri Pieper in 1881, and subsequently licensed to Remington. (I have an original Pieper Diana from 1883). This is two years after the timeframe in the movie.Mzmadmike (talk) 17:11, 26 July 2023 (UTC)