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Talk:Beretta M12: Difference between revisions
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Weird aside I know but I was watching Ken Burns' The Vietnam War when, during an episode about the Tet Offensive, the showed a CIA guy hosing a window of the American embassy during the siege with what was clearly an M12. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 19:35, 19 July 2018 (EDT) | Weird aside I know but I was watching Ken Burns' The Vietnam War when, during an episode about the Tet Offensive, the showed a CIA guy hosing a window of the American embassy during the siege with what was clearly an M12. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 19:35, 19 July 2018 (EDT) | ||
:I don't think that guy was necessarily CIA, the Marines guarding the embassy had a stock of Beretta SMGs. This was apparently the first time the gun was ever used in combat. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:01, 19 July 2018 (EDT) | :I don't think that guy was necessarily CIA, the Marines guarding the embassy had a stock of Beretta SMGs. This was apparently the first time the gun was ever used in combat. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:01, 19 July 2018 (EDT) | ||
::I don't know. The dude wasn't wearing a flack jacket or helmet. The literal short sleeved white shirt and black pants/tie. Almost screamed spook to me. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 20:54, 19 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
:::To quote from [http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a502004.pdf this] report about the Tet Offensive, "Section IV consisted of 12 men and a Staff Sergeant NCOIC guarding two to three posts at the ambassador‘s residence. They normally wore civilian clothes. Each MSG was armed with a .38 caliber revolver and a 9-millimeter Beretta sub machine gun (SMG)." They guy in the video you saw might have been CIA, but just bear in mind that it is documented that there were plain clothes MSGs (Marine Security Guards) at the embassy armed with Beretta M12s. The first MSG killed guarding an Embassy, Cpl. Jim Marshall, was carrying a Beretta SMG when he was shot and killed during the attack. The MSGs were actually really poorly equipped, they only had revolvers (which they were made to carry on an empty chamber so only 5 shots), the Beretta SMGs were the only "long" arm they had access to, and they had no helmets or flak jackets. If you see anyone in videos of the vent that actually look like they are equipped properly, they are MPs rather than MSGs. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:13, 20 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
Latest revision as of 09:13, 20 July 2018
I think that this page should be moved to the Beretta M12 section because the weapon actually is a Beretta M12. But I think it should be decided by popular vote.- User:TheDon152
Yes, the two pages should be consolidated. The "info" needs to be changed as well. It says the M12s is a "folding stock variant of the M12". Well, both the M12 and the M12s have folding stocks, there really is no difference in that regard. There was a wooden stock option for the M12, but as far as I know, it wasn't that common. Perhaps the writer of this article thought the M12 only came with a wooden stock? The major difference between the two versions is the safety. The M12 has a bush button safety, separate from the fire selector lever, while the M12s incorporates the safety with the fire selector lever.--Phillb36 21:21, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- Whoa, I wonder who the hell did this? But yes, thanks for alerting me, I'll get this sorted at once. -MT2008 05:26, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Alright, fixed. -MT2008 05:29, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
Weird aside I know but I was watching Ken Burns' The Vietnam War when, during an episode about the Tet Offensive, the showed a CIA guy hosing a window of the American embassy during the siege with what was clearly an M12. --Charon68 (talk) 19:35, 19 July 2018 (EDT)
- I don't think that guy was necessarily CIA, the Marines guarding the embassy had a stock of Beretta SMGs. This was apparently the first time the gun was ever used in combat. --commando552 (talk) 20:01, 19 July 2018 (EDT)
- I don't know. The dude wasn't wearing a flack jacket or helmet. The literal short sleeved white shirt and black pants/tie. Almost screamed spook to me. --Charon68 (talk) 20:54, 19 July 2018 (EDT)
- To quote from this report about the Tet Offensive, "Section IV consisted of 12 men and a Staff Sergeant NCOIC guarding two to three posts at the ambassador‘s residence. They normally wore civilian clothes. Each MSG was armed with a .38 caliber revolver and a 9-millimeter Beretta sub machine gun (SMG)." They guy in the video you saw might have been CIA, but just bear in mind that it is documented that there were plain clothes MSGs (Marine Security Guards) at the embassy armed with Beretta M12s. The first MSG killed guarding an Embassy, Cpl. Jim Marshall, was carrying a Beretta SMG when he was shot and killed during the attack. The MSGs were actually really poorly equipped, they only had revolvers (which they were made to carry on an empty chamber so only 5 shots), the Beretta SMGs were the only "long" arm they had access to, and they had no helmets or flak jackets. If you see anyone in videos of the vent that actually look like they are equipped properly, they are MPs rather than MSGs. --commando552 (talk) 05:13, 20 July 2018 (EDT)
- I don't know. The dude wasn't wearing a flack jacket or helmet. The literal short sleeved white shirt and black pants/tie. Almost screamed spook to me. --Charon68 (talk) 20:54, 19 July 2018 (EDT)