User talk:Rufford - Revision history

Rufford at 23:38, 27 November 2012

2012-11-27T23:38:39Z

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	::They might know what they make, but that doesn't mean they sell it. I'd be curious as to what sort of customer would be interested in a fullauto ultracompact carbine while actually being in a position to buy one; certainly the military has no role for such a gun, and I wouldn't think LE clients would be interested either. If you've got some evidence that fullauto Patriots actually exist "in the wild" as it were without being modified or rebuilt with pre-ban lowers I'd be happy to see it, but like I said, if you see one in media it's not going to have been bought as a fullauto anyway. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)		::They might know what they make, but that doesn't mean they sell it. I'd be curious as to what sort of customer would be interested in a fullauto ultracompact carbine while actually being in a position to buy one; certainly the military has no role for such a gun, and I wouldn't think LE clients would be interested either. If you've got some evidence that fullauto Patriots actually exist "in the wild" as it were without being modified or rebuilt with pre-ban lowers I'd be happy to see it, but like I said, if you see one in media it's not going to have been bought as a fullauto anyway. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)


			:::[[File:PatriotvsMP5.JPG\|400px]]
			:::The Patriot was designed to replace the H&K MP5 with an intermediate round firearm of similar size. Many armed forces use MP5s, don't pretend there is no place for a firearm this size that uses a more effective round than 9mm. The full auto receivers RMAI produced were made after 1986, therefore not transferable for civilians. So these were only sold to the Military and Law Enforcement. The Patriot pistol had since been manufactured so that it may be sold to civilians --[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 18:38, 27 November 2012 (EST)

	: On MGS3/4 If it looks like a Patriot and is called a Patriot,why does the entry go on and on about the M231? It seems like the author went out of their way to not mention that the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a Patriot.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)		: On MGS3/4 If it looks like a Patriot and is called a Patriot,why does the entry go on and on about the M231? It seems like the author went out of their way to not mention that the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a Patriot.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)

	::Because it ''doesn't'' look like a Patriot. Put your hand over the barrel and you have a weapon which doesn't have the RMA upper or lower; it has an A1 upper with no brass deflector (the Patriot upper is a flattop A2) and an A1 5.56mm full fence lower. The ''only'' Patriots that look like the one in the game have been built for that specific purpose, which isn't really any different from saying it's an RMA Patriot barrel and an A1 upper on an M231. Granted it could use re-wording, but when it's an equal distance from two models you don't name it as either. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)		::Because it ''doesn't'' look like a Patriot. Put your hand over the barrel and you have a weapon which doesn't have the RMA upper or lower; it has an A1 upper with no brass deflector (the Patriot upper is a flattop A2) and an A1 5.56mm full fence lower. The ''only'' Patriots that look like the one in the game have been built for that specific purpose, which isn't really any different from saying it's an RMA Patriot barrel and an A1 upper on an M231. Granted it could use re-wording, but when it's an equal distance from two models you don't name it as either. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)

			:::RMAI did indeed make A1 receivers for the patriot, and it is foolish to think that nobody ever put a beta c-mag in a patriot until it showed up in a video game in 2004. --[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 18:38, 27 November 2012 (EST)

Evil Tim: /* Patriot */

2012-11-26T07:21:06Z

Patriot

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	''While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually ''bought'' such a thing''- That is surprisingly condescending statement from an admin. RMA is a type 7 FFL, they know exactly what they make and sell. I have fired a Full-Auto Patriot (manufactured that way by RMA), I am making these edits from first hand knowledge of the firearm and the manufacturer.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)		''While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually ''bought'' such a thing''- That is surprisingly condescending statement from an admin. RMA is a type 7 FFL, they know exactly what they make and sell. I have fired a Full-Auto Patriot (manufactured that way by RMA), I am making these edits from first hand knowledge of the firearm and the manufacturer.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)

			::They might know what they make, but that doesn't mean they sell it. I'd be curious as to what sort of customer would be interested in a fullauto ultracompact carbine while actually being in a position to buy one; certainly the military has no role for such a gun, and I wouldn't think LE clients would be interested either. If you've got some evidence that fullauto Patriots actually exist "in the wild" as it were without being modified or rebuilt with pre-ban lowers I'd be happy to see it, but like I said, if you see one in media it's not going to have been bought as a fullauto anyway. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)

			: On MGS3/4 If it looks like a Patriot and is called a Patriot,why does the entry go on and on about the M231? It seems like the author went out of their way to not mention that the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a Patriot.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)

	: ~~On MGS3/4 If~~ it ~~looks~~ like a Patriot and is ~~called~~ a ~~Patriot,why does the entry go on~~ and ~~on about~~ the ~~M231? It seems like~~ the ~~author went out of their way to not mention~~ that ~~the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a~~ Patriot.--[[User:~~Rufford~~\|~~Rufford~~]] ([[User talk:~~Rufford~~\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)		::Because it ''doesn't'' look like a Patriot. Put your hand over the barrel and you have a weapon which doesn't have the RMA upper or lower; it has an A1 upper with no brass deflector (the Patriot upper is a flattop A2) and an A1 5.56mm full fence lower. The ''only'' Patriots that look like the one in the game have been built for that specific purpose, which isn't really any different from saying it's an RMA Patriot barrel and an A1 upper on an M231. Granted it could use re-wording, but when it's an equal distance from two models you don't name it as either. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)

Rufford at 16:43, 25 November 2012

2012-11-25T16:43:41Z

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	''While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually ''bought'' such a thing''- That is surprisingly condescending statement from an admin. RMA is a type 7 FFL, they know exactly what they make and sell. I have fired a Full-Auto Patriot (manufactured that way by RMA), I am making these edits from first hand knowledge of the firearm and the manufacturer.		''While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually ''bought'' such a thing''- That is surprisingly condescending statement from an admin. RMA is a type 7 FFL, they know exactly what they make and sell. I have fired a Full-Auto Patriot (manufactured that way by RMA), I am making these edits from first hand knowledge of the firearm and the manufacturer.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)



			: On MGS3/4 If it looks like a Patriot and is called a Patriot,why does the entry go on and on about the M231? It seems like the author went out of their way to not mention that the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a Patriot.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)

Rufford at 16:43, 25 November 2012

2012-11-25T16:43:07Z

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	:This is why I reverted your MGS 3 edit. Evil Tim sums it up perfectly. --[[User:SmithandWesson36\|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36\|talk]]) 11:35, 25 November 2012 (EST)		:This is why I reverted your MGS 3 edit. Evil Tim sums it up perfectly. --[[User:SmithandWesson36\|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36\|talk]]) 11:35, 25 November 2012 (EST)




			''While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually ''bought'' such a thing''- That is surprisingly condescending statement from an admin. RMA is a type 7 FFL, they know exactly what they make and sell. I have fired a Full-Auto Patriot (manufactured that way by RMA), I am making these edits from first hand knowledge of the firearm and the manufacturer.

SmithandWesson36: /* Patriot */

2012-11-25T16:35:43Z

Patriot

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	The MGS3 / 4 "Patriot" has some resemblance to a RMA Patriot in terms of overall configuration, but also a fair few differences, which is why we don't list it there; it's not listed under M231 Firing Port Weapon either. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 11:17, 25 November 2012 (EST)		The MGS3 / 4 "Patriot" has some resemblance to a RMA Patriot in terms of overall configuration, but also a fair few differences, which is why we don't list it there; it's not listed under M231 Firing Port Weapon either. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 11:17, 25 November 2012 (EST)

			:This is why I reverted your MGS 3 edit. Evil Tim sums it up perfectly. --[[User:SmithandWesson36\|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36\|talk]]) 11:35, 25 November 2012 (EST)

Evil Tim: /* Patriot */ new section

2012-11-25T16:17:14Z

Patriot: new section

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		== Patriot ==

		The RMA Patriot is not a "machine gun;" we use the proper definition of the term rather than the legal (under which a bent piece of metal or a ''shoelace'' can be classified as machine guns) and the Patriot is a compact semi-automatic carbine. While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually ''bought'' such a thing, and it's more correct to say any Patriot you're likely to see in media either ''is'' semi-auto or was manufactured as a semi-auto and then converted by a movie armourer.

		The MGS3 / 4 "Patriot" has some resemblance to a RMA Patriot in terms of overall configuration, but also a fair few differences, which is why we don't list it there; it's not listed under M231 Firing Port Weapon either. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 11:17, 25 November 2012 (EST)

Rufford: Blanked the page

2012-11-25T15:48:32Z

Blanked the page

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	~~==Welcome to IMFDB==~~
	Before you do any editing please take the time to read the '''[[Rules, Standards and Principles]]'''. This is a very important document that explains how this website is setup as well as telling you what is and isn't allowed. If it is determined by an '''[[admins\|admin]]''' that you have not read these rules, your account will be suspended. Continued non-compliance may result in a permanent ban.

	~~There are a number of pages that desperately need your help. You can find these Incomplete pages '''[[incomplete\|here]]'''.~~

	~~If you have any questions, feel free to post them '''[[Talk:Main Page\|here]]''' but make sure to sign your post by typing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>.~~

	Finally, IMFDB has a forum set up '''[http://forum.imfdb.org/ here]''' that is only available to registered members. There is lots of good stuff to see there. If you would like to join the forum, please post '''[[Forum Request\|HERE]]''' and an account will be created for you.

	~~Now, HAPPY EDITING! [[User:Zackmann08\|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08\|talk]]) 12:46, 22 November 2012 (EST)~~

Zackmann08: Welcome!

2012-11-22T17:46:08Z

Welcome!

New page

==Welcome to IMFDB==
Before you do any editing please take the time to read the '''[[Rules, Standards and Principles]]'''. This is a very important document that explains how this website is setup as well as telling you what is and isn't allowed. If it is determined by an '''[[admins|admin]]''' that you have not read these rules, your account will be suspended. Continued non-compliance may result in a permanent ban.

There are a number of pages that desperately need your help. You can find these Incomplete pages '''[[incomplete|here]]'''.

If you have any questions, feel free to post them '''[[Talk:Main Page|here]]''' but make sure to sign your post by typing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>.

Finally, IMFDB has a forum set up '''[http://forum.imfdb.org/ here]''' that is only available to registered members. There is lots of good stuff to see there. If you would like to join the forum, please post '''[[Forum Request|HERE]]''' and an account will be created for you.

Now, HAPPY EDITING! [[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] ([[User talk:Zackmann08|talk]]) 12:46, 22 November 2012 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:38, 27 November 2012
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	::They might know what they make, but that doesn't mean they sell it. I'd be curious as to what sort of customer would be interested in a fullauto ultracompact carbine while actually being in a position to buy one; certainly the military has no role for such a gun, and I wouldn't think LE clients would be interested either. If you've got some evidence that fullauto Patriots actually exist "in the wild" as it were without being modified or rebuilt with pre-ban lowers I'd be happy to see it, but like I said, if you see one in media it's not going to have been bought as a fullauto anyway. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)		::They might know what they make, but that doesn't mean they sell it. I'd be curious as to what sort of customer would be interested in a fullauto ultracompact carbine while actually being in a position to buy one; certainly the military has no role for such a gun, and I wouldn't think LE clients would be interested either. If you've got some evidence that fullauto Patriots actually exist "in the wild" as it were without being modified or rebuilt with pre-ban lowers I'd be happy to see it, but like I said, if you see one in media it's not going to have been bought as a fullauto anyway. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)


			:::[[File:PatriotvsMP5.JPG\|400px]]
			:::The Patriot was designed to replace the H&K MP5 with an intermediate round firearm of similar size. Many armed forces use MP5s, don't pretend there is no place for a firearm this size that uses a more effective round than 9mm. The full auto receivers RMAI produced were made after 1986, therefore not transferable for civilians. So these were only sold to the Military and Law Enforcement. The Patriot pistol had since been manufactured so that it may be sold to civilians --[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 18:38, 27 November 2012 (EST)

	: On MGS3/4 If it looks like a Patriot and is called a Patriot,why does the entry go on and on about the M231? It seems like the author went out of their way to not mention that the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a Patriot.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)		: On MGS3/4 If it looks like a Patriot and is called a Patriot,why does the entry go on and on about the M231? It seems like the author went out of their way to not mention that the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a Patriot.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)

	::Because it ''doesn't'' look like a Patriot. Put your hand over the barrel and you have a weapon which doesn't have the RMA upper or lower; it has an A1 upper with no brass deflector (the Patriot upper is a flattop A2) and an A1 5.56mm full fence lower. The ''only'' Patriots that look like the one in the game have been built for that specific purpose, which isn't really any different from saying it's an RMA Patriot barrel and an A1 upper on an M231. Granted it could use re-wording, but when it's an equal distance from two models you don't name it as either. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)		::Because it ''doesn't'' look like a Patriot. Put your hand over the barrel and you have a weapon which doesn't have the RMA upper or lower; it has an A1 upper with no brass deflector (the Patriot upper is a flattop A2) and an A1 5.56mm full fence lower. The ''only'' Patriots that look like the one in the game have been built for that specific purpose, which isn't really any different from saying it's an RMA Patriot barrel and an A1 upper on an M231. Granted it could use re-wording, but when it's an equal distance from two models you don't name it as either. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)

			:::RMAI did indeed make A1 receivers for the patriot, and it is foolish to think that nobody ever put a beta c-mag in a patriot until it showed up in a video game in 2004. --[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 18:38, 27 November 2012 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:21, 26 November 2012
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	''While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually ''bought'' such a thing''- That is surprisingly condescending statement from an admin. RMA is a type 7 FFL, they know exactly what they make and sell. I have fired a Full-Auto Patriot (manufactured that way by RMA), I am making these edits from first hand knowledge of the firearm and the manufacturer.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)		''While RMA does seem to think it sells a fullauto NFA version to military and LE customers, I doubt anyone has ever actually ''bought'' such a thing''- That is surprisingly condescending statement from an admin. RMA is a type 7 FFL, they know exactly what they make and sell. I have fired a Full-Auto Patriot (manufactured that way by RMA), I am making these edits from first hand knowledge of the firearm and the manufacturer.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)

			::They might know what they make, but that doesn't mean they sell it. I'd be curious as to what sort of customer would be interested in a fullauto ultracompact carbine while actually being in a position to buy one; certainly the military has no role for such a gun, and I wouldn't think LE clients would be interested either. If you've got some evidence that fullauto Patriots actually exist "in the wild" as it were without being modified or rebuilt with pre-ban lowers I'd be happy to see it, but like I said, if you see one in media it's not going to have been bought as a fullauto anyway. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)

			: On MGS3/4 If it looks like a Patriot and is called a Patriot,why does the entry go on and on about the M231? It seems like the author went out of their way to not mention that the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a Patriot.--[[User:Rufford\|Rufford]] ([[User talk:Rufford\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)

	: ~~On MGS3/4 If~~ it ~~looks~~ like a Patriot and is ~~called~~ a ~~Patriot,why does the entry go on~~ and ~~on about~~ the ~~M231? It seems like~~ the ~~author went out of their way to not mention~~ that ~~the Rocky Mountain Arms AR-15 pistol pictured is called a~~ Patriot.--[[User:~~Rufford~~\|~~Rufford~~]] ([[User talk:~~Rufford~~\|talk]]) 11:43, 25 November 2012 (EST)		::Because it ''doesn't'' look like a Patriot. Put your hand over the barrel and you have a weapon which doesn't have the RMA upper or lower; it has an A1 upper with no brass deflector (the Patriot upper is a flattop A2) and an A1 5.56mm full fence lower. The ''only'' Patriots that look like the one in the game have been built for that specific purpose, which isn't really any different from saying it's an RMA Patriot barrel and an A1 upper on an M231. Granted it could use re-wording, but when it's an equal distance from two models you don't name it as either. [[User:Evil Tim\|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim\|talk]]) 02:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)