Seraphim Falls - Revision history

JaredChastain1: /* Springfield 1873 Trapdoor Carbine */ It's a Sharps, not a Springfield.

2023-12-19T00:24:16Z

Springfield 1873 Trapdoor Carbine: It's a Sharps, not a Springfield.

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:24, 19 December 2023
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	[[File:Seraphim 20.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px\|The [[Colt 1851 Navy]] with a Richards-Mason cartridge conversion is seen in the hands of Charon ([[Wes Studi]]).]]		[[File:Seraphim 20.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px\|The [[Colt 1851 Navy]] with a Richards-Mason cartridge conversion is seen in the hands of Charon ([[Wes Studi]]).]]

	== ~~Springfield 1873 Trapdoor~~ Carbine==		== Sharps 1863 Carbine==
	In a flashback, Union cavalry under the command of Gideon ([[Pierce Brosnan]]) are seen armed with [[~~Trapdoor Springfield Rifle\|Trapdoor Springfield 1873~~ Carbine]] ~~rifles~~.		In a flashback, Union cavalry under the command of Gideon ([[Pierce Brosnan]]) are seen armed with the [[Sharps 1863 Carbine]]. This is a period correct choice, as the Sharps Carbine saw widespread use among Union cavalry during the Civil War.
	[[Image:~~UmbertiTrapdoorCarbine~~.~~jpg‎~~\|thumb\|none\|450px\|~~1873 Springfield Trapdoor~~ Carbine - .~~45-70 Cal.~~]]		[[Image:Sharps 1863 carbine.jpg\|thumb\|none\|450px\|Sharps 1863 Carbine - .52 caliber]]
	[[File:Seraphim 18.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]		[[File:Seraphim 18.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]

JaredChastain1: /* Colt 1851 Navy Richards-Mason Conversion */

2023-12-19T00:17:54Z

Colt 1851 Navy Richards-Mason Conversion

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:17, 19 December 2023
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	== Colt 1851 Navy Richards-Mason Conversion ==		== Colt 1851 Navy Richards-Mason Conversion ==
	The [[Colt 1851 Navy]] with a Richards-Mason cartridge conversion is seen in the hands of Parsons ([[Ed Lauter]]) as well as Charon ([[Wes Studi]]). ~~Carver also~~ is ~~seen taking one off a railman when he~~'s ~~threatened by~~ the ~~foreman~~.		The [[Colt 1851 Navy]] with a Richards-Mason cartridge conversion is seen in the hands of Parsons ([[Ed Lauter]]) as well as Charon ([[Wes Studi]]). The appearance of the Richards-Mason conversion in this movie is anachronistic, as it was never produced until the 1870's following the expiration of the Rollin White patent.
	[[Image:Colt1851cartridge.jpg\|thumb\|none\|350px\|Colt 1851 Navy with Richards-Mason cartridge conversion - .38 Long Colt.]]		[[Image:Colt1851cartridge.jpg\|thumb\|none\|350px\|Colt 1851 Navy with Richards-Mason cartridge conversion - .38 Long Colt.]]
	[[File:Seraphim 03.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px\|The revolver is seen.]]		[[File:Seraphim 03.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px\|The revolver is seen.]]

JaredChastain1: /* Colt 1851 Navy */

2023-12-19T00:12:19Z

Colt 1851 Navy

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:12, 19 December 2023
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	== Colt 1851 Navy ==		== Colt 1851 Navy ==
	Carver is seen taking a [[Colt 1851 Navy]] off a railman when he's threatened by the foreman. ~~Three clues point towards it being a percussion model and not a cartridge conversion:~~ the ~~loading lever~~ is ~~still attached (not a guarantee~~, ~~but a good sign), you can just make out~~ the ~~indentation on the cylinder for the nipple~~ (the ~~big clue~~)~~, and brass framed Navys never were/are/should-be converted to fire metallic cartridges~~.		Carver is seen taking a brass-framed [[Colt 1851 Navy]] off a railman when he's threatened by the foreman. While Confederate clones of the Colt 1851 Navy, such as the [[Griswold & Gunnison]] were produced with brass frames, this gun is an inaccurate modern reproduction, likely made by Pietta or Armi San Marco. This is evidenced by the octagonal barrel (the G&G had a round barrel).
	[[Image:1851Navy.jpg\|thumb\|none\|350px\|Colt 1851 Navy - .36 caliber.]]		[[Image:1851Navy.jpg\|thumb\|none\|350px\|Colt 1851 Navy - .36 caliber.]]
	[[File:Seraphim 11.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]		[[File:Seraphim 11.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]

JaredChastain1: /* Smith & Wesson Schofield */

2023-12-19T00:04:36Z

Smith & Wesson Schofield

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:04, 19 December 2023
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	==Smith & Wesson Schofield==		==Smith & Wesson Schofield==
	Hayes ([[Michael Wincott]]) carries what appears to be a [[Smith & Wesson Schofield]], which would be anachronistic for this movie. Smith & Wesson didn't begin producing the first incarnation of Model 3 (the "American Model") until roughly two years after this film is set, and the Schofield variant—an improvement of the Model 3 devised by Major George Schofield—never entered production until 1875.		Hayes ([[Michael Wincott]]) carries what appears to be a [[Smith & Wesson Schofield]], which would be anachronistic for this movie. Smith & Wesson didn't begin producing the first incarnation of the Model 3 (the "American Model") until roughly two years after this film is set, and the Schofield variant—an improvement of the Model 3 devised by Major George Schofield—never entered production until 1875.
	[[Image:Schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3 with nickel finish - .45 Schofield.]]		[[Image:Schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3 with nickel finish - .45 Schofield.]]
	[[Image:Sf-schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|300px\|A production still of Hayes being held by Gideon, Schofield holstered. Note that the belt is a "buscadero" style belt, which is also anachronistic (by about 70 years!).]]		[[Image:Sf-schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|300px\|A production still of Hayes being held by Gideon, Schofield holstered. Note that the belt is a "buscadero" style belt, which is also anachronistic (by about 70 years!).]]

JaredChastain1: /* Smith & Wesson Schofield */

2023-12-19T00:04:20Z

Smith & Wesson Schofield

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:04, 19 December 2023
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	==Smith & Wesson Schofield==		==Smith & Wesson Schofield==
	Hayes ([[Michael Wincott]]) carries what appears to be a [[Smith & Wesson Schofield]], which would be anachronistic for this movie. Smith & Wesson didn't begin producing the first ~~incarnations~~ of Model 3 (the "American Model") until roughly two years after this film is set, and the Schofield variant—an improvement of the Model 3 devised by Major George Schofield—never entered production until 1875.		Hayes ([[Michael Wincott]]) carries what appears to be a [[Smith & Wesson Schofield]], which would be anachronistic for this movie. Smith & Wesson didn't begin producing the first incarnation of Model 3 (the "American Model") until roughly two years after this film is set, and the Schofield variant—an improvement of the Model 3 devised by Major George Schofield—never entered production until 1875.
	[[Image:Schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3 with nickel finish - .45 Schofield.]]		[[Image:Schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3 with nickel finish - .45 Schofield.]]
	[[Image:Sf-schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|300px\|A production still of Hayes being held by Gideon, Schofield holstered. Note that the belt is a "buscadero" style belt, which is also anachronistic (by about 70 years!).]]		[[Image:Sf-schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|300px\|A production still of Hayes being held by Gideon, Schofield holstered. Note that the belt is a "buscadero" style belt, which is also anachronistic (by about 70 years!).]]

JaredChastain1: /* Smith & Wesson Schofield */

2023-12-19T00:04:06Z

Smith & Wesson Schofield

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:04, 19 December 2023
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	==Smith & Wesson Schofield==		==Smith & Wesson Schofield==
	Hayes ([[Michael Wincott]]) carries what appears to be a [[Smith & Wesson Schofield]], which would be anachronistic for this movie.		Hayes ([[Michael Wincott]]) carries what appears to be a [[Smith & Wesson Schofield]], which would be anachronistic for this movie. Smith & Wesson didn't begin producing the first incarnations of Model 3 (the "American Model") until roughly two years after this film is set, and the Schofield variant—an improvement of the Model 3 devised by Major George Schofield—never entered production until 1875.
	[[Image:Schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3 with nickel finish - .45 Schofield.]]		[[Image:Schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3 with nickel finish - .45 Schofield.]]
	[[Image:Sf-schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|300px\|A production still of Hayes being held by Gideon, Schofield holstered. Note that the belt is a "buscadero" style belt, which is also anachronistic (by about 70 years!).]]		[[Image:Sf-schofield.jpg\|thumb\|none\|300px\|A production still of Hayes being held by Gideon, Schofield holstered. Note that the belt is a "buscadero" style belt, which is also anachronistic (by about 70 years!).]]

JaredChastain1: /* Colt 1849 Pocket */

2023-12-18T23:58:42Z

Colt 1849 Pocket

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:58, 18 December 2023
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	==Colt 1849 Pocket==		==Colt 1849 Pocket==
	Madame Louise ([[Anjelica Huston]]) sells Carver a [[Colt 1849 Pocket]] model with a Confederate-style brass frame. In the film it is a cartridge ~~converted firearm~~, as evidenced by the lack of percussion nipples in the fourth photo below.		Madame Louise ([[Anjelica Huston]]) sells Carver a [[Colt 1849 Pocket]] model with a Confederate-style brass frame. This is anachronistic, as there were no Colt 1849 Pocket revolvers produced with brass frames historically. The gun used in the film is a modern, incorrect reproduction made in Italy, likely by Armi San Marco. It also appears to be a cartridge conversion, as evidenced by the lack of percussion nipples in the fourth photo below. It is generally not advised to convert brass-framed percussion revolvers to fire cartridges as brass frames are not capable of withstanding the pressure generated even by heavy percussion loads, let alone metallic cartridges. It is sometimes done in Hollywood however to allow the use of blank cartridges, which are relatively low pressure.
	[[Image:1849.31cal.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Colt 1849 Pocket .31 caliber]]		[[Image:1849.31cal.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Colt 1849 Pocket .31 caliber]]
	[[Image:Sf-1849-1.jpg\|thumb\|none\|300px\|Madame Louise ([[Anjelica Huston]]) plies her trade.]]		[[Image:Sf-1849-1.jpg\|thumb\|none\|300px\|Madame Louise ([[Anjelica Huston]]) plies her trade.]]

JaredChastain1: /* Colt Dragoon */

2023-12-18T23:45:48Z

Colt Dragoon

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:45, 18 December 2023
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	==Colt Dragoon==		==Colt Dragoon==
	Carver ([[Liam Neeson]]) also carries a cartridge converted 2nd Model [[Colt Dragoon]] as his personal sidearm. Gideon ([[Pierce Brosnan]]) later takes it from him and uses it. It is a loading-~~gate~~ only conversion, retaining the percussion loading lever. The use of a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon here is a sort of gray area from a historical accuracy standpoint considering the film's setting. While the Rollin White patent was still in effect in 1868, thus prohibiting Colt themselves from producing any cartridge-firing revolvers (excluding their attempted workaround with the front-loading Thuer Conversions), it is widely believed that "unauthorized" conversions were made in this period by individual gunsmiths on the frontier. Examples of such conversions being done on Dragoons have shown up (though it can't be nailed down ''exactly'' when the conversions were done), so a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon was ''possible'' in 1868. However, such a conversion would've been chambered in a rimfire round such as .44 Henry whereas Carver is shown loading centerfire cartridges into his in the film. This aspect is indeed anachronistic.		Carver ([[Liam Neeson]]) also carries a cartridge converted 2nd Model [[Colt Dragoon]] as his personal sidearm. Gideon ([[Pierce Brosnan]]) later takes it from him and uses it. It is a loading gate-only conversion, retaining the percussion loading lever. The use of a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon here is a sort of gray area from a historical accuracy standpoint considering the film's setting. While the Rollin White patent was still in effect in 1868, thus prohibiting Colt themselves from producing any cartridge-firing revolvers (excluding their attempted workaround with the front-loading Thuer Conversions), it is widely believed that "unauthorized" conversions were made in this period by individual gunsmiths on the frontier. Examples of such conversions being done on Dragoons have shown up (though it can't be nailed down ''exactly'' when the conversions were done), so a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon was ''possible'' in 1868. However, such a conversion would've been chambered in a rimfire round such as .44 Henry whereas Carver is shown loading centerfire cartridges into his in the film. This aspect is indeed anachronistic.
	[[Image:Colt1stDragoon-44Cal.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Colt Dragoon - .44 caliber.]]		[[Image:Colt1stDragoon-44Cal.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Colt Dragoon - .44 caliber.]]
	[[Image:Dragoon-1.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Production still shows Carver holding his Dragoon on Gideon.]]		[[Image:Dragoon-1.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Production still shows Carver holding his Dragoon on Gideon.]]

JaredChastain1: /* Colt Dragoon */

2023-12-18T23:45:28Z

Colt Dragoon

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:45, 18 December 2023
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	==Colt Dragoon==		==Colt Dragoon==
	Carver ([[Liam Neeson]]) also carries a cartridge converted 2nd Model [[Colt Dragoon]] ~~.44 caliber~~ as his personal sidearm. Gideon ([[Pierce Brosnan]]) later takes it from him and uses it. It is a loading-gate only conversion, retaining the percussion loading lever. The use of a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon here is a sort of gray area from a historical accuracy standpoint considering the film's setting. While the Rollin White patent was still in effect in 1868, thus prohibiting Colt themselves from producing any cartridge-firing revolvers (excluding their attempted workaround with the front-loading Thuer Conversions), it is widely believed that "unauthorized" conversions were made in this period by individual gunsmiths on the frontier. Examples of such conversions being done on Dragoons have shown up (though it can't be nailed down ''exactly'' when the conversions were done), so a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon was ''possible'' in 1868. However, such a conversion would've been chambered in a rimfire round such as .44 Henry whereas Carver is shown loading centerfire cartridges into his in the film. This aspect is indeed anachronistic.		Carver ([[Liam Neeson]]) also carries a cartridge converted 2nd Model [[Colt Dragoon]] as his personal sidearm. Gideon ([[Pierce Brosnan]]) later takes it from him and uses it. It is a loading-gate only conversion, retaining the percussion loading lever. The use of a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon here is a sort of gray area from a historical accuracy standpoint considering the film's setting. While the Rollin White patent was still in effect in 1868, thus prohibiting Colt themselves from producing any cartridge-firing revolvers (excluding their attempted workaround with the front-loading Thuer Conversions), it is widely believed that "unauthorized" conversions were made in this period by individual gunsmiths on the frontier. Examples of such conversions being done on Dragoons have shown up (though it can't be nailed down ''exactly'' when the conversions were done), so a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon was ''possible'' in 1868. However, such a conversion would've been chambered in a rimfire round such as .44 Henry whereas Carver is shown loading centerfire cartridges into his in the film. This aspect is indeed anachronistic.
	[[Image:Colt1stDragoon-44Cal.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Colt Dragoon - .44 caliber.]]		[[Image:Colt1stDragoon-44Cal.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Colt Dragoon - .44 caliber.]]
	[[Image:Dragoon-1.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Production still shows Carver holding his Dragoon on Gideon.]]		[[Image:Dragoon-1.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Production still shows Carver holding his Dragoon on Gideon.]]

JaredChastain1: /* Colt Dragoon */

2023-12-18T23:45:02Z

Colt Dragoon

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:45, 18 December 2023
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	==Colt Dragoon==		==Colt Dragoon==
	Carver ([[Liam Neeson]]) also carries a [[Colt Dragoon]] .44 caliber as his personal sidearm~~. This, again, is appropriate for the time period~~. Gideon ([[Pierce Brosnan]]) ~~also~~ is ~~seen holding one~~.		Carver ([[Liam Neeson]]) also carries a cartridge converted 2nd Model [[Colt Dragoon]] .44 caliber as his personal sidearm. Gideon ([[Pierce Brosnan]]) later takes it from him and uses it. It is a loading-gate only conversion, retaining the percussion loading lever. The use of a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon here is a sort of gray area from a historical accuracy standpoint considering the film's setting. While the Rollin White patent was still in effect in 1868, thus prohibiting Colt themselves from producing any cartridge-firing revolvers (excluding their attempted workaround with the front-loading Thuer Conversions), it is widely believed that "unauthorized" conversions were made in this period by individual gunsmiths on the frontier. Examples of such conversions being done on Dragoons have shown up (though it can't be nailed down ''exactly'' when the conversions were done), so a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon was ''possible'' in 1868. However, such a conversion would've been chambered in a rimfire round such as .44 Henry whereas Carver is shown loading centerfire cartridges into his in the film. This aspect is indeed anachronistic.
	[[Image:Colt1stDragoon-44Cal.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Colt Dragoon - .44 caliber.]]		[[Image:Colt1stDragoon-44Cal.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Colt Dragoon - .44 caliber.]]
	[[Image:Dragoon-1.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Production still shows Carver holding his Dragoon on Gideon.]]		[[Image:Dragoon-1.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Production still shows Carver holding his Dragoon on Gideon.]]
	[[Image:Seraphim_falls14.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Another production still holding the Dragoon.]]		[[Image:Seraphim_falls14.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Another production still holding the Dragoon.]]
			[[File:Seraphim Falls Colt Dragoon Conversion.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px\|Carver pointing the Dragoon at Hayes. Note the conversion ring at the rear of the cylinder.]]
			[[File:Seraphim Falls Colt Dragoon Conversion loading gate (1).jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px\|Carver checking his empty Dragoon.]]
			[[File:Seraphim Falls Colt Dragoon Conversion loading gate (2).jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px\|Loading the Dragoon.]]
	[[File:Seraphim 15.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]		[[File:Seraphim 15.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]
	[[File:Seraphim 24.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]		[[File:Seraphim 24.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:45, 18 December 2023
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	==Colt Dragoon==		==Colt Dragoon==
	Carver ([[Liam Neeson]]) also carries a [[Colt Dragoon]] .44 caliber as his personal sidearm~~. This, again, is appropriate for the time period~~. Gideon ([[Pierce Brosnan]]) ~~also~~ is ~~seen holding one~~.		Carver ([[Liam Neeson]]) also carries a cartridge converted 2nd Model [[Colt Dragoon]] .44 caliber as his personal sidearm. Gideon ([[Pierce Brosnan]]) later takes it from him and uses it. It is a loading-gate only conversion, retaining the percussion loading lever. The use of a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon here is a sort of gray area from a historical accuracy standpoint considering the film's setting. While the Rollin White patent was still in effect in 1868, thus prohibiting Colt themselves from producing any cartridge-firing revolvers (excluding their attempted workaround with the front-loading Thuer Conversions), it is widely believed that "unauthorized" conversions were made in this period by individual gunsmiths on the frontier. Examples of such conversions being done on Dragoons have shown up (though it can't be nailed down ''exactly'' when the conversions were done), so a cartridge converted Colt Dragoon was ''possible'' in 1868. However, such a conversion would've been chambered in a rimfire round such as .44 Henry whereas Carver is shown loading centerfire cartridges into his in the film. This aspect is indeed anachronistic.
	[[Image:Colt1stDragoon-44Cal.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Colt Dragoon - .44 caliber.]]		[[Image:Colt1stDragoon-44Cal.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Colt Dragoon - .44 caliber.]]
	[[Image:Dragoon-1.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Production still shows Carver holding his Dragoon on Gideon.]]		[[Image:Dragoon-1.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Production still shows Carver holding his Dragoon on Gideon.]]
	[[Image:Seraphim_falls14.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Another production still holding the Dragoon.]]		[[Image:Seraphim_falls14.jpg\|thumb\|none\|400px\|Another production still holding the Dragoon.]]
			[[File:Seraphim Falls Colt Dragoon Conversion.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px\|Carver pointing the Dragoon at Hayes. Note the conversion ring at the rear of the cylinder.]]
			[[File:Seraphim Falls Colt Dragoon Conversion loading gate (1).jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px\|Carver checking his empty Dragoon.]]
			[[File:Seraphim Falls Colt Dragoon Conversion loading gate (2).jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px\|Loading the Dragoon.]]
	[[File:Seraphim 15.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]		[[File:Seraphim 15.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]
	[[File:Seraphim 24.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]		[[File:Seraphim 24.jpg\|thumb\|none\|600px]]