Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-12-04T02:53:34Z

Shadowkungfu:

See [[Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3/Archive 1]] and [[Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3/Archive 2]] for older discussions.

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== HD Screenshots from the MW3 Commercial ==

Here's some screenshots from the MW3 Commercial starring [[Sam Worthington]] and [[Jonah Hill]]:

It might be a good idea to give this its own subheading (or even sub-page, there's a lot of weapons in the trailer). Usually we cover guns that appear in trailers and previews, but it's rather unique for a game trailer to have so many real weapons in it, and it'd look weird shoehorning shots from this trailer into the main page's gun entries. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:28, 18 November 2011 (CST)
:Here's some more screenshots from the same commercial. Note that I accidentally uploaded an existing screenshot. The following weapons appear in the commercial: FN SCAR-L, Czech Skorpions, RPG-7, M67 grenade, Barret M82, 9-Bang, M4A1 Carbine, M1911 and its modern variants, AKMS, Remington RSASS, M60E4, M16A2, and the M203 launcher. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:56, 18 November 2011 (CST)
::Actually, that "SCAR-L" is an ACR. :\ BTW, I just love this commercial for some reason. =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Seeing Sam Worthington in it just feels weird, since he's the star of BO. Do you think it was a dig at Treyarch? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:57, 22 November 2011 (CST)
::::Well, the rules on IMFDB state that commercials are not allowed to have their own pages. But maybe these screenshots can have their own section on the bottom of the Modern Warfare 3 main page as a "trivia special"? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 01:58, 23 November 2011 (CST)
:::::The thing is while commercials are not allowed, ''trailers'' usually are allowed on the main page. I think in this very unusual case this trailer has enough guns to warrant a page of it's own. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:52, 23 November 2011 (CST)
::::::Hmm... that would be nice to see a page about this trailer on here. But then again, we'd probably have other people complaining that it would be our obligation to also include pages for the live action trailer for Call of Duty: Black Ops, the Black Ops Zombies trailer and the Rezurrection expansion pack trailer. Personally I say put all these screenshots on the bottom of the Modern Warfare 3 page as a "trivia special", and if someone wants to add screenshots from the live action trailers for Black Ops and it's expansions, then I agree on the same deal; putting them on the bottom of the main page as a "trivia special" --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 07:36, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:::::::Naw, if you actually did the gun IDs properly for this trailer it'd be about the same size as the actual page. I think for this a sub-page is probably the best bet. And to be honest, if someone wanted to make the three pages you mention, I'd say the same would apply (and as to complaining, the standard "make it yourself if you want it done so bad" response would be fine). It's not like this is going to be a huge issue with games companies suddenly ''all'' having live action trailers with loads of guns in them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)
In my opinion, I would rather create a small section for the commercial instead of making a separate page for it in compliance with Imfdb rules. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 03:34, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:IMFDB rules say nothing about trailers, only commercials which are ''not'' trailers are forbidden. I'm saying create a sub-page for it since it would be ''way'' bigger than a "small section" if you did it properly, which is how it should be done. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:26, 25 November 2011 (CST)

[[File:MW3Com 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Vet ([[Sam Worthington]]) loads up his ACR during the opening battle in New York City.]]
[[File:MW3Com 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Vet then switches to his dual Skorpions during the first engagement.]]
[[File:MW3Com 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the battle in Germany, The n00b aims an RPG-7 at an enemy sniper, as The Vet looks on in disbelief at such a choice.]]
^That one makes me laugh my ass off every time I look at it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:41, 22 November 2011 (CST)
[[File:MW3Com 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b now shows off the skills he's learned from The Vet.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b ([[Jonah Hill]]) realizes the mistake he's just made in pulling the pin from his M67 grenade prematurely in the opening battle in New York City.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Vet draws his dual Skorpions. Interestingly, there are no holsters for these weapons. This could be a sly joke about game mechanics; in the games, the player's second weapon is indeed shown stuck to their back with no visible means of attachment.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Vet now stares down at an attacking Mi-28 "Havoc" helicopter...]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and dodges an incoming missile from the Havoc.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b charges onto the war-torn New York City streets in typical n00b fashion; spraying from the hip and yelling a war-cry like you're Arnold Schwarzenegger. Just like any typical n00b, he also "noob tubes".]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unfortunately, The n00b forgot about one thing; watch out for hidden landmines!]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b and The Vet sneak up on the enemy sniper during the battle in Germany.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Watch, and learn!" The Vet once again tries to show The n00b how to prepare for combat properly during the battle in Paris.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b learns what it's like to fight in zero gravity in a recreation of the mission "Turbulence".]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Take a break big dog, I got this!" The n00b prepares to show that he's proven his worth on the battlefield.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|During the battle in New York City, The n00b switches from his ACR to his M1911. Smart choice. Not bad for a n00b!]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b fires his M1911.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b and The Vet walk side-by-side on the battlefield, as the trailer's tagline appears on the screen.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another n00b ([[Dwight Howard]]) comes onto the battlefield, displaying the typical n00b mannerisms.]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b whoops with joy after spraying the battlefield with his M16A2/M203 combo.]]

== Unknown grenade ==

Any idea what this is?

[[Image:MW3-Gasgren-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It's the gas grenade Price throws when he's interrogating Waarabe. Looks almost like a VOG grenade with a pin stuck on one end, or an M34 after a crash diet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:21, 25 November 2011 (CST)

== Desert Eagle ==

Now that's settled, Evil Tim, can you do the same treatment to the slide markings, as I think it might actually say Desert Hawk rather than Eagle, but don't have anything on this computer to clear it up. Can make out though that this is a Magnum Research as the bottom line ends in ''Minneapolis MN''. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:08, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/GMCMA/Other%20stuff/2011-11-25_00070.jpg This is a slightly different gradient mapping] (you can still see the E, it's the same image, on photobucket to save server space), but it actually looks like the second word is completely missing. I don't see why, they thank MR and "Desert Eagle" (which is a separate thing?) in the credits. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)
::Thanks, to me it look like it says either "Hank" or "Hawk" and am assuming Hawk, as that is less mental. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:48, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:Ok, ok, calming down now. Here's where we get back to fun because the magazine is both correctly and incorrectly modelled!

:[[Image:MW3-Deagle-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:Notice the spacing imples four holes in the magazine (a .44 would have 5) but the number of visible bullets I believe implies a .44 (a .50AE would only have three, unless the side of the top bullet at the side is supposed to be the side of the one at the ''top'' of the magazine). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

::Also, .44 Magnum is a rimmed caliber, and while I don't completely expect them to get this correct, the cartridges in the magazine are not rimmed, which would be characteristic of .50 AE rounds. Just a side note! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:14, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::I think it is meant to be the .50 AE mag, but is thrown off by two thing. Firstly the top round is smaller than the other visible rounds, and looks like it overlaps the top one as well. Secondly, the window is too long on this gun, being about a 1/3 the total length of the magazine. On a real magazine (.44 or .50, they are the same apart from the holes) the window in only about 1/4 the length of the magazine. These two factors combined mean more bullets are visible than there should be. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:48, 25 November 2011 (CST)

::::The mags are pretty much made up to be just something to stick into the gun. They are so far from the real thing they can't really even be credited towards either gun.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 15:31, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Well, the number of "windows" does tell you how many rounds, and the spacing says 4 rather than 5, so it's just another mistake with 8 rounds in a 7-round magazine. You want horrible magazines you need to go back to the original MW, if you were ''lucky'' you'd have two completely flat bullets on the top that looked a bit like they were for the right kind of gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 25 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Yes, but a mag window never extends into the feed lips like in the picture. lol... And honestly, I never looked at the original MW mags. I'll take your word there.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 15:50, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Well, I'm probably going to redo those at some point because I hate that page. Also, the window does that, I imagine, because they're BS'ing based on an Airsoft magazine, where the feed lips are instead the plastic top of the mag with the BB feeder and gas vent. I guess they knew there was a hole in the side of the magazine (which on the Airsoft version isn't a hole but a dip containing a little latch that releases the slide and such), knew there were feed lips, but weren't sure how the two things interacted with each other. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:55, 25 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::Lol yea we'll just go with that explanation... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 15:58, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::The top of the magazine is correct, and the windows does extend up into the feed lips like this. See here for a side by side comparison of both .50 and .44 magazines showing this: http://www.magnumresearch.com/docs/MagazineOffer.pdf. It also seems like the crimp on the front of the magazine is different for the two calibers, but you don't get a good enough look at the magazine to work out which, if either, the game magazine is based on. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::::Yeah, you're right, I just checked a couple more images on Google to be sure. I can't imagine that does much for the life of the feed lips? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:18, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::::: Yeaaaaa That explains why I've heard that the lifespan of DE mags are so short... Ok then lol --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 21:34, 25 November 2011 (CST)

== Mk 14 ==

So, I guess they just figured "nobody's going to throw their rifle on the floor and ''check'' it's the same one the other guys are using, right?" And they'd have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for us meddlin' kids. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:52, 25 November 2011 (CST)

... what's the problem? --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 04:51, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:The "Mk14" and "M14 EBR" are actually the same model (the Mk 14 Mod 0), even though it seems they want you to think the "M14 EBR" is the Mk 14 Mod 1 from the previous game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:17, 27 November 2011 (CST)

== Since it's locked... ==

Can a mod change the bit about the M65 Atomic Annie?

"A doctored image of the nuclear test Upshot-Knothole Grable can be seen in some maps as a movie poster. Grable was a shell fired from an M65 Atomic Cannon and the W9 nuclear artillery shell was itself a modified antiaircraft gun."

Atomic Annie fired 280mm shells. There were never any 280mm AA shells, and the design of Atomic Annie itself was based on German railroad guns, not an AA gun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:49, 28 November 2011 (CST)

:You're misreading. The W9 round ''itself'' is a modified antiaircraft gun which fires one subcritical mass at the other. The M65 is a gun which fires a gun which is a bomb. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:32, 28 November 2011 (CST)
::If it's just a gun-type fission device, can you clarify that? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:35, 28 November 2011 (CST)
:::Just did that before reading. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:41, 28 November 2011 (CST)
::::Thanks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:47, 28 November 2011 (CST)

How come the page is locked anyway? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:55, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== M4A1 ==

A quick query about the M4A1 used in the game, as you may be able to see in the pictures below the M4 is equipped with a rail riser, including when using the hybrid sight.

[[File:MW3-M4-1.jpg|600px]]

[[File:MW3-M4-2.jpg|600px]]

The EOTech XPS-3 part of the hybrid sight is situated on the lower rail whilst the magnifier is on the rail riser. Wouldn't this mess up the alignment between the two? Doesn't really look right to me but would like anyone else's input. --[[User:Noble.6|Noble.6]] 15:50, 28 November 2011 (CST)

:[[Image:MW3-M4-5.jpg|600px]]

:If you zoom in and look carefully there's a silver plate between the base of the XPS-3 and the rail which raises it up to the same level as the riser. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:22, 28 November 2011 (CST)

::Ah, thanks. Seems like a lot of trouble to go to though... --[[User:Noble.6|Noble.6]] 16:48, 28 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's most likely that they designed the rifle before they decided to use this sight with it. A bit like how they just stuffed the RSASS into "Blood Brothers" even though the level was blatantly designed for the Barrett. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:52, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== "USP Tactical" ==

I would just like to point out that the supposed USP Tactical isn't one; it still has the regular USP's fixed iron sights for one thing. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:33, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:And has markings on it saying "USP Tactical," plus an extended barrel. It's a USP Tactical with the wrong iron sights. This is hardly impossible, since the Tactical uses the same dovetails as the standard USP slide so there's no reason you couldn't swap irons.

:[[Image:Whatdoesthissay.jpg]] [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:01, 2 December 2011 (CST)

So? Every other USP in the series had said extended barrel, but we didn't call them Tacs. Plus it's not like they've ever used correct trades before. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:27, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Ok, let me just copy-paste what I said ''last'' time this came up, adding the CoD4 USP since I have that too now:

:Here's an angle-for-angle comparison of the player models:
:[[Image:MW1-USP-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Standard USP in ''CoD4''. ''Barely visible'' barrel, slide says "(HK logo or something like it) USP .45 Auto." This is a USP 45.]]
:[[Image:MW3-Nottactical.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Standard USP from ''MW2'' in ''MW3''. Slide wording "(front cocking serration) USP .45 Auto." Has ''very slightly'' visible projecting barrel. This is a USP 45.]]
:[[Image:MW3-USPTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|USP Tactical model. Slide says "USP Tactical .45 Auto," has ''highly'' visible (and therefore longer) projecting barrel. This is a USP Tactical.]]
:The new one has a longer barrel and correctly calls itself a USP Tactical on the slide, while the original is just a malformed USP.
:Let me just break this down:
:*Someone decided they needed a new USP model.
:*They made a new USP model which has features correct for a Tactical, and slide engraving saying it's a Tactical.
:*They decided to use the old MW2 USP model as well for no good reason.
:*They decided to call both the USP 45, also for no good reason.
:Hence, there are two gun models, the old mutant USP and the new Tactical. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:I imagine, given the shorter extended barrel, the LAM in the first game and the possibly recycled from dev model rear sights in the second, the CoD4 / MW2 USP was originally going to be a Mark 23, and they kept the old barrel on the model for some reason. This new one's is in proportion for a USP Tac, and it ''says'' it's a USP Tac on the slide (which is a distinguishing feature of a USP Tac, after all). This is enough to upgrade it from mistake to intent, and the sights aren't impossible to swap between models and so aren't distinctive of the non-Tac model. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:01, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::Just beat me to it. Was going to say that the rear sight and the raised part of the slide it sits on, and the amount of barrel projection was from a Mark 23 as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:10, 2 December 2011 (CST)

== "MG36" ==

This image is from the official H&K site.
[[Image:G36K-2.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Just ignore the buttstock, willya.]]
They list it as a G36K, even tho it has a longer barrel. Maybe H&K classifies these guns based on the handguard and vent holes. It would make sense, as the barrels are interchangeable. Thoughts? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:11, 3 December 2011 (CST)
:Not sure the barrels are interchangeable, as the gas block would be in the wrong place. I suppose you could put the correspondingly longer piston on (not sure if this would work but lets assume it would) but then the piston would be exposed, with the front part of it along with the gas block sticking out the front of the handguard. It would be exposed to dirt and damage, and would look weird. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:52, 3 December 2011 (CST)
H&K makes a LMG/support gunner version of the G36 (don't remember the exact name). It looks just like your photo but as far as I know it's usually outfitted with a 100 round drum magazine instead of the normal 30 rounder. The name "MG36" is really just made up so the poor sap playing this game that knows nothing about gun would immediately associate the MG with machine gun. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 16:33, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:I can't really see how a weapon with a non-carbine barrel is still a carbine, personally. Though it would hardly be the first time HK's marketing spods were guilty of making things up as they go along. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:Wait a minute, HK's page has the disclaimer "The pictures shown may differ from the original." Isn't that an aftermarket stock, for a start? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::The barrel extends past the handguard by a similar amount (slightly less I think) as on a G36, but the G36 handguard is longer, meaning that this is actually an intermediate barrel between the 318mm barrel of the G36K and the 480mm barrel of the G36. I believe the origin of this variant was that it was submitted for Norwegian (I think) army trials, and it has something like a 16" barrel. It now goes by the name G36KV3 I think. The stock isn't an aftermarket one, I think it was designed by H&K for the Latvian army. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:00, 3 December 2011 (CST)
:::Did a bit more searching and found that it is a 15.4" barrel, and the variant also appears to go by G36CQB. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:04, 3 December 2011 (CST)
::::Ah, only place I'd ever seen that stock was on Airsoft gun pictures saying it was a G&P "KV style" stock. So, we're saying this is probably a 15.4" barrel G36K? I doubt this variant has existed long enough to have been in ''Far Cry'', mind, so we should probably leave that saying hybrid. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Apparently the G36CQB was listed in the HK Defence Weapons Systems Brochure from 2004 to 2006, so it is possible that this is what the [[Far Cry]] rifle is based on. This is 2nd hand info from the HK Pro forums so might be wrong though. Have also read that it was first introduced in the late 90s for the US market, but only 100 or so were made so these are rare. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 3 December 2011 (CST)
::::::This G36K, the one with the wierd aftermarket sights on a C rail and that stock, was made for one country specifically, though I forget which one. As for the carbine issue Tim, a carbine is simply a shortened version of the original, it can be any length as long as it's shorter. If it's a Carbine of a Carbine it's a Sub-Carbine. Not makin this up :) G36K = Carbine and G36C = Sub-Carbine. M4A1 = Carbine and Mk 18 Mod 0 = Sub-Carbine. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:42, 3 December 2011 (CST)
::::::Far Cry was march 2004, I wouldn't think they'd have time to stick a G36 variant that had existed for an absolute maximum of 3 months (and might not have existed at all yet) in the game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:51, 3 December 2011 (CST)
:::::::All I could find was someone stating that it was in the 2004-2006 brochure, but could have appeared before this point. Like I said, the first versions of the G36CQB barrel appeared in the late 90s. It is probably more likely that they just made it up accidentally though. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:54, 3 December 2011 (CST)
::::::::Ok, I'll add a note there and fix this when I get home, then. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)
:::::::::I have a copy of Soldier of Fortune magazine from October 2001 that says the 15.4 inch CQB barrel is an option--[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 20:53, 3 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-01T04:44:33Z

Shadowkungfu:

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocies the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarovs private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precident from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherant than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to disect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I havn't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Pattersons from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles. Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers.

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s overall trailer]
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand trailer]
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::: The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
:::::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)
::::::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)
:::::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:
:::: http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg
::::[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

: List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion : http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/
: --[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-11-23T05:48:33Z

Shadowkungfu: /* Delta Force Weapons */

See [[Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

== KSG ==

Kinda surprised it never appears in singleplayer since it's supposed to be one of the "gimmick" guns for this game, has anyone seen one anywhere? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:07, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::Right now it's still in production. It was apparently a HUGE hit at the 2011 SHOT Show, however on the downside Kel-Tec is a pretty small manufacturer who happens to make pretty popular products, and that results in some pretty severe backlogging. I think they are planning on releasing it in early 2012 last I heard. The best part though is it's supposedly not going to be that expensive! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 18:14, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::: This gun is out now! It's going for between $650 and $800 depending on where you shop. I found 6 different places selling it by putting a simple search into Google. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

I think he meant in the game, but that's good news too!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:22, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I did. And now I've got one, I get to discover they got literally ''everything'' about it wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:22, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Do tell :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:42, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::: LOL ooooooops! I haven't found the gun in single player, but I didn't do much searching either. But yea it's so messed up in the game (multiplayer). First, it's not a continuous fire shotgun. You get 7, then have to manually switch (not exactly sure how) to the other tube which holds another 7. Second, for being a 12 gauge, the damage is absurdly low. It took me an average of 3 torso hits to kill someone. Also, you would think they would give this shotgun to have slugs in one tube, and buckshot in the other! After all, that was the main idea behind the gun! Instant ammo switching or a lot of ammo in a compact package! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Way to ruin an awesome gun!!! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 17:00, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::In Survival it's 12 rounds and it's just treated as a standard shotgun; no switching tube mags. It's more or less just a crappier version of the Striker with even less damage and slow pump rather than semi-auto. Everything I've read implies it's 12 in multi too, which as I said on the page would only be true if it were using 3" shells; since it damages like it's using 1 1/2" shells loaded with sand, I'm just writing that up as an error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:08, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Mk 14 ==

on the pic Price's Mk 14 has a CTR stock so it is a Mod 1 --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:20, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Soap's M1911 ==
In the pic of his holster, that's not a 1911. Looks like an M9, by the grips and slide safety groove. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:03, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== reload animations ==

A lot of the reloads are still carried from the previous games but what baffles me is there are plenty of guns that have a cocking handle on the left side and even some are the same gun like the MG36 and the G36 but both cock the charging handle from different sides. I was hoping the ACR would changed, but nothing really changed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Beefed up gun sounds ==

I am really liking the beefed up gun shots in this game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)
::Lol... Everything but the ARs have good sounds, and everyone else's gunfire sounds great (ie. your standing next to them). Now I'll admit I'm only about 1/2 way through the ranking so I don't have all of the guns unlocked, so I don't know what some of the later guns sound like. I will say though, the Dragunov gunshot is incredible. I mean like 100% dead on. The L118 is the right sound, BUT NOT LOUD ENOUGH!!! That gunshot should be teeth rattling! The Barrett M107 is the same way; right but not loud enough! I just cope with it by cranking the volume when no one's home :D --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:36, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:::Actually, this was one of the things I really ''didn't'' like in this game, they all sound like they were made on a computer as opposed to being recorded. Think of the M200 in MW2, and a few others, they sound like, well, it's hard to describe, but something like metal hitting against metal? I dunno, but the Desert Eagle's sound in this is very bad compared to COD4 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)

::::That's what I think the Assault Rifles and quite a few LMGs sound like. They finally fixed the pistols and sniper rifle's sounds, but totally messed up the others! What the heck? --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 14:50, 11 November 2011 (CST)

== Overall thoughts on the game ==
To be honest folks, this game turned out really good in the end. The gameplay doesn't feel as noobified like the last game was, the graphics, game engine and gameplay is more sharper and cleaner this time around as opposed to the glitches and bugs in second game, the multiplayer isn't so bland, the SpecOps feel more polished and fun, and the game's story explained a whole lot more stuff to the overall plot than Modern Warfare 2 did, and it left it on a more appropriate closure to the series. All in all, a good game. Maybe it's nothing groundbreaking in the "realism" factor (We'll leave that to Battlefield), but it still turned out to be a damn good game, and definitely worth the price. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:42, 11 November 2011 (CST)

::After watching the whole Singleplayer playthrough, and some MP stuff too, I agree. While (to me) it doesn't beat MW1, it sure is better than MW2 and BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)
:Modern Warfare 3 had the gameplay of Modern Warfare 2, but has more-balanced multiplayer content (though the multiplayer is obviously borrowed from Modern Warfare 2), gameplay, perks, satisfying story with clear parts (unlike Modern Warfare 2, which had a muddled plot), and like everyone said, realistic gun sounds. Even though it is not as successful or good as the older Call of Duty games and the other modern FPS games, it is overall the best video game set during modern times. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:33, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:::Well, it being the best modern shooter is your opinion, and I'm certainly not trying to say that it's ''wrong'', but for me MW1 and BF3 both take the that title. I agree with your summary though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:21, 11 November 2011 (CST)

== MP5K? ==

Is there actually an MP5K in the game, or is this just an MP5A2 that someone misidentified ages ago? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:32, 12 November 2011 (CST)

:No, that is actually an MP5K (you can see the name on the right is "MP5K holographic," and the hold is with the PC's thumb covering more of the rail, implying it's shorter), it was just cut from the final game. It's quite likely that when the dev console codes come out you'll be able to call it up in singleplayer with a "give" cheat. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:45, 12 November 2011 (CST)

::As we all know a lot of things in Call of Duty games are copy-pasted from previous ones, and since what we see of the K looks identical to the MW3 MP5, and we can see the reload animation is copy-pasted from the MW2 K, so I'm betting they copy-pasted the whole gun, changed the model, but didn't change the name til after that video. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:26, 12 November 2011 (CST)
:::This MP5K (if that is what it is, am still not 101% convinced) isn't the one from MW2 as has different rail system and a solid butt. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:40, 12 November 2011 (CST)

::::You misunderstood, the MW3 MP5K we're looking at, and the normal MP5 in MW3 look the same. The game files for the MP5K were brought over from MW2, and it was given a new model and name, but the name hadn't been changed yet as of the video. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:53, 12 November 2011 (CST)

:::::I don't think so, the one labelled as an MP5K looks shorter. Edit: Actually, looking at the Spec-Ops trailer and my own caps you might be right, it's the MW3 MP5 but he's holding it like it's an MP5K because it doesn't have new hand positions yet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:35, 12 November 2011 (CST)

== RSASS Secondary Sight on the Wrong Side ==

Has anybody else noticed that the red dot secondary sight is mounted in the wrong (left) side? If your holding the gun as a rightie, than it needs to be on the right side so that the hand holding the pistol grip just has to twist outwards. With it being on the left side, you have to twist your hand inwards to be able to look through the sight, and between a pistol grip in the gut, no stock surface on your shoulder, a magazine getting in the way of your support hand, and a 100% unnatural face angle, it ain't happening. But what else is new. Go figure. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)

:You'd think you'd just put it on the top or side of the scope, regardless. But the left hold kinda works if you're willing to stick your "wing" right out for it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:16, 13 November 2011 (CST)

::I noticed that too but I just figured they wanted the player to see it. Even though it's wrong, I think it's still cool that they tried it. reminds me of Jerry Miculek doing a 3 gun match.--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 20:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::That's probably it, and also probably the reason for some other subtle reasons such as the Pechang LMG feeding from the wrong side and so on. I personally know that if I couldn't see it in game, I probably would forget about it. They pretty much dropped realism for gameplay. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 20:25, 20 November 2011 (CST)

== Barrett ==

Price used an M82A1 in Pripyat as the M107 wasn't even developed 15 years before 2011. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:30, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:Oh, whoops. Although a weapon not being invented yet has historically never been a problem for this series, you know. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:43, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::CoughBlackOpsCough..... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:53, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:::OMFG, is that a suppressed RSASS between the two RPG's? In '96? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:34, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::::See? SEE?! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:42, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:CoD... CoD... -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:02, 15 November 2011 (CST)

Also, the helicopter flying past is an Mi-28N (round ball above the rotor), which wasn't delivered until 2006. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:10, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:Exactly. I recently updated CoD4:MW's main page about that issue. But something else I would like to know if in anyway, is it matter if Price used the M82A1 rather than the L96, even though the British Army does using the M82A1? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:24, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::The range involved, you'd be pushing things with just a 7.62. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

:::Ah, okay. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:42, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::::Back then a Barrett M82A1 would be the correct weapon for an SAS sniper at long range. Although the M82A1 is still in the British army inventory, The AW50F tends to be favoured nowadays by both special forces and regulars (mainly EOD and anti material), so this weapon choice is chronologically correct although I think this is purely by accident. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:10, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Sigh, RSASSs... At least the weapons in the two flashback missions were close to being right, at most a couple years too early, but these? Really? Of all the guns they could have picked for that scene :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:To give Blops one point, the framing device does add some scope for ridiculous weapons (the action is being recounted by a man who's half dead, dosed up to the eyeballs on drugs and being tortured), though that in turn raises the question of why the interrogator is apparently letting him describe exactly how he shot every single person. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:02, 18 November 2011 (CST)

==EOTech XPS Logo==
There's nothing ridiculous about it, it actually ''is'' that big. [http://webyshops.com/ns/images/EOTech/EOTech-EXPS2-2-Holographic-Sight-2-dot-Ballistic-Reticle-with-3X-Magnifier-and-FTS-Mount-Flipped-View-MPO-III-Pic1.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:59, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Actually, there's still something ridiculous about that. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:12, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::How come? It's the same one. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:33, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Because it's ridiculous in real life too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Minigun ==

Are we sure it's Dillon Aero rather than Garwood Industries' [http://www.garwoodindustries.com/proddetail.php?prod=M-134G M-134G]? I can't find a Dillon with that top-mounted RIS rail, but Garwood's one has it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:44, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:If you go onto YouTube, you can find people shooting Dillon Aero miniguns with rails. It's more of an aftermarket thing, but they are out there. I'm also not sure why you wouldn't be able to find a photo, as 95% of handheld military arms have rails on them. Since the adoption of the M16A3/A4, rails have become pretty much standard on everything that might remotely need a sight. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:45, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, I meant I couldn't find a base model on their site with rails. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:06, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::Oh well you likely won't find one then. What is likely though, is the gun is probably drilled and tapped for the rail and shipped with filler screws, so that whoever receives the gun can add a rail if they want to. It's a pretty common practice on a lot of rifles. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:23, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::I wouldn't worry too much about the rail, as it is mounted in the wrong place anyway. Any sight rail I have seen on a minigun has been mounted to the yoke rather than to the gun body itself. Regardless, from the slotted flash suppressor the closest match is a GAU-17/A, which incidentally also has a sight rail. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::[[File:GAU-17A HH60.jpg|thumb|400px|none|GAU-17/A mounted on an HH-60H Seahawk - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
::::Looking at the screencaps again, just noticed that although it has the barrel assembly of a GAU-17/A it has dome Dillon parts, including the spade grips, the gun drive motor and gun control unit. Also, when you fire the gun, does the character press down with his thumbs, because this is what it looks like in the screenshot. If so, I think that this is incorrect as the fire buttons are on the GCU and the buttons on top of the spade grips can be optionally wired up to activate things like lasers or illuminators, or to deploy flares and chaff. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:16, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Yes. He rests his thumbs together in the middle when not firing, that's "firing" even though you can't see a muzzle flash in that shot. But looking at Dillon's site, the wording implies that those switches can be used for other functions ''or'' as triggers, so it might not be wrong, just weird. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:37, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::The trigger on these things can be a number of different options. I've seen a butterfly trigger with 2 toggle switches (one for power, the other for rate of fire) and I have seen ones with a power toggle switch and two button triggers, both firing the the weapon but each at different rates of fire. These guns are built to order, so all that's shown on the website is a base model. Extra features can be had when someone orders it.

::::::The rail is next to useless anyway though, because the gun is intended to be walked onto target. You start firing in the general direction, then move the gun onto target by watching the tracers (every 4th or 5th round). This makes red dot sights and most lasers pretty much worthless.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 10:58, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Well, the rail's always empty in CoD, so they might have actually got something right there. It's just there under the Black theory that adding a RIS rail makes any gun 30% better (the average gun in Black is thus roughly 270% better). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::::LOL In the shooting community here, rails are super popular among people, but they add weight onto guns REALLY fast. Taking an AR-15 and switching out a normal handguard to a quad rail immediately adds on 8-20 ounces of weight (depending on rail length). Factor in grips, lights, and lasers, it gets heavy way too fast!--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:08, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::::::::And of course the 37mm flare launcher that you tell everyone is an M203, that's a vital part of every ridiculous range toy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::::::Pah those things are really cool but ridiculously heavy. They are quite a bit of fun at night though!--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:30, 16 November 2011 (CST)
I don't think those top thumb switches can be configured to fire the gun, as don't think there is an "input" into the GCU other than the main power supply. There is one plug I'm not 100% sure about, but when looking at pictures if it is attached it always goes away from the gun, possibly it is the power supply to the ammo booster if fitted but don't know. As for the rail thing, the one time a sight is handy is if you want to fire a warning shot across something, as would be a bit embarrassing to start firing and mince the target accidentally because you judged it slightly wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:37, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:Ok 1st, I don't think anyone on earth would fire a warning shot with a minigun. That just seems stupid beyond belief. Another reason a sight is worthless is because it doesn't take into account windage, lead, and bullet drop, especially if moving. These are all things you have to eyeball in order to make a hit.
:As for those switches, they can. It's all about how the manufacturer sends the gun out and simple electronics. Just like I could wire up all the lights in the house to be turned on with a timer or from my car, but there's just no reason to do so. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:58, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::I am only talking about the Dillon M134D, how other manufacturer set up their fire control group is up to them, but the spade grips here are for a Dillon. The GCU has 1 input and 2 or 3 outputs. Input is main power to the gun, first two outputs are for the motor and the clutch, and the third, if connected, goes away from the gun, my guess to the ammunition booster but not 100%.
::Warning shot from a minigun is not stupid, I have done it a couple of times to discourage fast boats getting a bit too close to where they shouldn't be, and it works pretty damn well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:07, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Fun fact ==

This screenshot

[[Image:MW3-Magnum-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Is actually ''impossible'' to get using Steam's screenshot feature, since it won't take shots during that part of the intro (loading, I guess). In the end I had to use FRAPS. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:25, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Glock 18C/Glock 17 hybrid? ==

I couldn't find a good picture to verify currectly, but even so the developers remembered to add a fire selector switch this time, let's not forget that the really really actual Glock 18C has compensator cuts on both the slider and barrel, in order to reduce the recoil (if I'm not mistaken).

[[Image:MW3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Undeterred by this, he's soon using his Glock to blow a Russian patrol boat in half. One-handed, no less.]]

If you open the picture above in a new tab, zoom in and look closely on the slider, there are no compensator cuts. Could this be, still, the same covereted-full-auto-fire Glock 17 model from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'', only with a fire selector switch? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 07:41, 17 November 2011 (CST)
:It is a Glock 18 not the 18C. Whoever wrote the "C" was wrong. Real G18C can be seen in [[GRAW]] for example. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:22, 17 November 2011 (CST)
:: +1 for the normal Glock 18. The C stands for compensator, and since it doesn't have one, It won't be a Glock 18C, just a normal Glock 18.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:00, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::Okay, guys, thanks for answering that :) --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:58, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Just noticed, they have put the fire selector on backwards. WTF is wrong with these people, it takes conscious effort to make some of these mistakes. It's like they just mess with stuff for the hell of it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:09, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:It's a little hard to tell, but it looks like it's on correctly. But as a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if they read these entries and switch stuff last minute just to mess with us lol...
:A side note that I noticed: The Glock 18 has way to little recoil for being uncompensated. The compensator removes about 1/2 the muzzle climb, however for being uncompensated and full auto, it really doesn't seem to have that much recoil.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:29, 17 November 2011 (CST)
::In the above image you can see the "pointer" on the fire selector, which is pointing backwards (If you zoom in you can see part of the circle of the selector above the straight "pointer" part which you wouldn't see if it was pointing forwards correctly). On a real Glock 18 the two positions are both forwards (up for semi down for auto). An easier way to see that it is wrong is in the create a class menu:
::[[File:Weapon g18 large.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
::The serrations are in the wrong place due to this, and the selector is too far back as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:06, 17 November 2011 (CST)
Gotchya. I wasn't sure if in the photo it was the pointer or a shadow, but I see it now. Go figure...--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 17:28, 17 November 2011 (CST)

::Also the magazine is shorter than an actual 31/33 round magazine, but it's still too long for a 20 rounder, 19-round mags (17-round Glock mag with a +2 base plate) are flush fitting. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:21, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== HD Screenshots from the MW3 Commercial ==

Here's some screenshots from the MW3 Commercial starring [[Sam Worthington]] and [[Jonah Hill]]:
[[File:MW3Com 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:MW3Com 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:MW3Com 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
^That one makes me laugh my ass off every time I look at it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:41, 22 November 2011 (CST)
[[File:MW3Com 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

It might be a good idea to give this its own subheading (or even sub-page, there's a lot of weapons in the trailer). Usually we cover guns that appear in trailers and previews, but it's rather unique for a game trailer to have so many real weapons in it, and it'd look weird shoehorning shots from this trailer into the main page's gun entries. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:28, 18 November 2011 (CST)
:Here's some more screenshots from the same commercial. Note that I accidentally uploaded an existing screenshot. The following weapons appear in the commercial: FN SCAR-L, Czech Skorpions, RPG-7, M67 grenade, Barret M82, 9-Bang, M4A1 Carbine, M1911 and its modern variants, AKMS, Remington RSASS, M60E4, M16A2, and the M203 launcher. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:56, 18 November 2011 (CST)
::Actually, that "SCAR-L" is an ACR. :\ BTW, I just love this commercial for some reason. =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Seeing Sam Worthington in it just feels weird, since he's the star of BO. Do you think it was a dig at Treyarch? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:57, 22 November 2011 (CST)
[[Image:MW3Noob-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== I can't be the only one ==

[[image:CODBO-TDIVector.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Whenever I look at this image I feel an urgent need to photoshop Bill and Ted in either side of him and add the caption "EXCELLENT!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:34, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Lolz. X) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Hahaha!! :D Nice one!! - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:44, 20 November 2011 (CST)

== Colt License ==
Did Colt have a licensing agreement with MW3, as well because if you look at the charging handle of the CM901, it has the Colt logo printed on it. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:49, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:I've got an image of the thanks section from the credits which includes everyone who advertised, I'll post it up when I get home. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::Cool, thanks man. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:MW3-Thanksto-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

"Colt Defense LLC." Oddities include thanking "Desert Eagle" ''and'' Magnum Research, Barrett ''and'' Barrett Rifles, and that they got help from Degroat, a company that refurbishes miniguns; I guess explaining why they're GAU-17/As with Dillon bits. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:31, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:I find it amazing that the developers actually included '''Bobby Kotick''' in the special thanks section. -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::"Thanks for not firing us yet!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Kevin Smith? The director? [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:43, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== M4A1 20 round magazine ==

I find it funny that they model 30 round magazines on the M16A4, but model 20 round mags on the M4A1 with a 30 round capacity, judging by this picture below, they look like straight 30 round mags instead of curved.
[[Image:MW3-M4-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Master Sergeant "Sandman" prepares to throw a magazine to Westbrook at the very start of the game.]]
--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]
:I don't think straight 30 round STANAG magazines exist. However, there were straight 25 round magazine in the early days of the M16 that are about this length, but they are rare as hens' teeth these days and would doubt that is what the developers intended. Think it is more likely that they just modelled it wrong deliberately or accidentally. They probably liked the aesthetic of a straight magazine, but a corect length 20 round would have looked conspicuously short compared to the other rifles in the game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:10, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm more inclined to say it's an oversized straight magazine than a rare one (it could also be an M4 adapted to use FAMAS F1 mags, if we're being silly). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:19, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::There ''are'' 30 round straight STANAG magazines out there, however they are extremely rare and also unreliable because the follower tends to hang up with the magazine frame. I have seen '''maybe''' 3 of them in my 16 years of working with guns, including on the internet. The mags in the picture however are too short to be them, and they are most certainly 20 rounders. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:59, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::If you compare them to the pistol grip they're ''slightly'' too long to be 20 rounders, too, they're sorta halfway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:04, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Well that's kinda because the grip is at the wrong angle too... lol Go to my page and look at the AR-15 I have up and you'll see that the grip here is angled too far backwards, which may be part of the problem... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:15, 22 November 2011 (CST)
::::::Do you have any links to pics of 30 round straight magazines, as have never seen one. I thought the 30 round magazine were always curved, but the original ones had a shallower, constant curve rather than the subsequent ones which are straight inside the magazine well, with a more sever curve underneath. Regardless of the grip angle, the 20 round magazine is too long:
::::::[[File:COD MW3 M4A1 class.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
::::::compare to this:
::::::[[File:ColtAR-15A3TacticalCarbine.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
::::::It also lacks the M4 profile barrel, and that flash hider is ridiculous, almost looks like a non-gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:07, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Ok here is a prototype that I have had on my files for a while.

[[File:30 round straight AR mag.jpg|300px]]

It lacks the cutout for the normal mag catch because it was designed for another gun (can't remember exactly what). Those 30 round straight mags may very well be converted magazines for other mags done before AR mags were widely available. Also, the grip angle looked worse in the in-game photo than the game picture of the gun. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:27, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:Ok upon doing further research here that magazine is actually a FAL magazine. Oops! I can't find any pictures on Gunbroker because once they archive their auctions you can't go back and get the pictures. Grrr... Sorry to let you down guys. Some research I found though was that the curve was given because of reliability issues found back with the original M16, therefore any 30 round straight magazines are going to be collector items and very rare. Just interesting... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::The grip is probably at least in part due to perspective. The picture Commando posted does look to be a static render of the same in-world gun model that Sandman is carrying, it's just that one's tilted towards us while the one in my pic is tilted away. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:39, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Did anyone notice the gas piston block on top of the receiver? Look at the rear sight, then look forward a millimeter. It's obviously not a removable riser which leads me to the conclusion that it must have been modeled after an M4 with a gas piston operated upper receiver. Hmmm... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:48, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:It's fairly well documented that their primary references are usually Airsoft guns, so it could be anything. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:53, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I don't think it is based on a piston gun. The raised flat top looks more like it is due to a riser as it looks very "bitty" and slapped on top (looks a bit like the back end of whatever you call those rail systems that clamp onto the flat-top, SIR?). Also, it has a regular handguard slip ring, which I don't think you could have as it wouldn't leave enough room for the piston. The handguard itself is pretty screwed up as well, with 5 large cooling holes along the top, but 7 smaller ones along the bottom, the rail along the bottom is totally flat, and along the side isn't a rail at all, but rather a series of hollow loops much further apart than the ridges on a rail. It looks like a complete frankengun monstrosity. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:14, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I agree, the riser looks like the rear part of MW2's RIS. And this RIS is the single worst RIS I have EVER seen, in so many ways. Also, it's funny you'd use a picture of an AR-15A3, as that's the "M4A1" in COD4 :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:24, 22 November 2011 (CST)

== Delta Force Weapons ==

Anyone else annoyed at the weapons used by the AI Delta Force members? Besides the issue of the 20 RD mags on the M4s, Delta is one of the most advanced spec ops teams in the world and better funded than most units within the military, but none of the AI's guns have any sort of attachment besides M203s. You'd think that if by now basic infantry in real life has optics on their guns, then an elite team like Delta would have ACOG's or Eotechs on all of their guns in a game set in 2016.--[[User:James Woods|James Woods]] 16:27, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:And Desert Eagles... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:28, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I just was researching Delta Force. I saw alot of pictures were operators had just a normal iron sighted M4 with an M203. Literally, only two of the multiple pictures i saw, they had no optics other than an m203.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:::As they should. I would, there's nothing wrong with ironsights, it's just nowadays everyone wants a reflex sight on everything. I wouldn't want anything electronic on ''my'' gun. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:20, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::They probably don't want to be caught out by an EMP again. Seriously though, unless they are trying to keep a low profile by using indigenous weapons, special forces these days would likely have gadgets. Why would they penalise themselves by not giving themselves every possible advantage? To analogise to British SAS, when they are not trying to look like conventional forces, I have seen them using C8s with silencers, AN/PEQ-2s, flashlights, vertical grips, ACOGs, coupled magazines, P226 pistols with crimson trace grips and AN/PVS-21 goggles. I would imagine it vary much depends on the mission though, but I think I have only ever seen iron sights on a British C8 once, and that was on Salisbury plane. All of this is British rather than Delta force though, but I would imagine they would carry the same number of (if not more) gadgets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:29, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::::That's what back-up iron sights (BIS) are for in addition to your optics. Most people have them in case their battery dies or the optics breaks...or in this case an EMP knocks them out. The D-boys should definitely not just be iron sighting it--[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 23:48, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-11-23T05:21:18Z

Shadowkungfu: /* Delta Force Weapons */

Talk:Heckler & Koch HK45

2011-11-18T03:29:52Z

Shadowkungfu:

If there aren't any movies featuring this gun, I don't think we need a page for it. [[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:10, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
:And as we see here, (drum roll) :) We DID EVENTUALLY have movie entries for this gun, thus it would have been probably wrong to delete the page as it helped identify the weapon in several movies and other entries. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:38, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== P30? ==

What, exactly, is the difference between this gun, and the HK P30?

The p30 comeschambered in 9mm or 40 S&W. It's also lighter and smaller than the HK45. It's basically a little brother designed for law enforcement applications whereas the HK45 is designed from the ground up to be a combat orientated pistol. -burgershot621

Wasn't this designed for the Navy SEALs in response to them hating the MK 23 SOCOM? --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:43, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cool-breeze: No, the SEALs started using SIG P226's because they didn't like the Mk23. The Mk23 was pretty much roundly despised as too heavy, too big and all around troublesome. Saw a couple in a Special Forces arms room in Iraq, but they were only there because they were on the property books. --[[User:idpassr|idpassr]]

I believe this pistol was designed for the US Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) cooperative project between the US Army and USSOCOM to find a .45 replacement for the M9. Like most US procurement projects it went nowhere. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:03, 17 November 2011 (CST)

I know the SEALs started using the P226 because they didn't like the Mk. 23 but I could have sworn that I'd read somewhere that HK decided to try and resolve all the issues with the Mk. 23 and the HK45 was the product of that decision. Although as Commando552 mentioned about the JCP program I'm starting to think that I might be mixing up the two programs. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:16, 17 November 2011 (CST)

First time posting. Here's some history on the HK45 with Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers on pistol-training.com
http://pistol-training.com/articles/hk45-interview-with-ken-hackathorn-and-larry-vickers
"[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 21:29, 17 November 2011 (CST)"

User:Shadowkungfu

2011-11-14T08:04:03Z

Shadowkungfu: Created page with ""Not by strength by guile" HKPRO Forum Screen Name-Dushan FN Forum Screen Name-Dushan -HK P2000 SK V3 9mm -FN PS90 TR"

"Not by strength by guile"

HKPRO Forum Screen Name-Dushan

FN Forum Screen Name-Dushan

-HK P2000 SK V3 9mm

-FN PS90 TR