Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Arma 3

2013-06-22T20:22:50Z

Scarecrow: /* "ACP C2 9mm" */

= Unknown =

== "ACP C2 9mm" ==

The "ACP C2" is definately a 1911 variant. I need some help identifying it specifically.

[[image:Arma3_1911_1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Floor view of the 1911.]]

[[image:Arma3_1911_2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|First person view. Lovely sights..]]

[[image:Arma3_1911_3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chewie models the lovely 1911. Any ideas?]]

It seems to be a [http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/ColtRailGun%C2%AE.aspx Colt Rail Gun], but the jury is still out. [[user:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]]

:Not sure it is pure 100% anything, but don't think it is based on a Colt gun as the serrations are too wide and the accessory rail is the wrong shape. Both of these seem to match the [[Kimber 1911 Series]] series though, like the Warrior. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:05, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

::Receiver and the slide are more certainly based on the Warrior series, but also has a three hole trigger and grips like the Colt's Rail Gun. Overall I'd say it's much more closer to Kimber's product then Colt's. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 03:10, 22 June 2013 (EDT)
:::It is kind of a cross between a Kimber Custom TLE/RL II and a Warrior, however there are some differences that don't seem consistent with any pistol. It may just be me, but that ejection port looks way to high up on the slide, and it also lacks the scalloped bit at the back that was introduced on the M1911A1 that most 1911 clones have. Also, the pattern of the grips is weird with that odd curved bit at the top of the upper diamond, the closest match to me is actually crimson trace grips if you got rid of the laser and the button, like [[Media:Kimber Pro Crimson Carry II.jpg|these]]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:02, 22 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Considering on the side of the slide is textured 'Pro Qwert III' and the serial number is the same, i think it's safe to say it's a hybrid of the [http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/covert-ii/custom-covert-ii Kimber Covert II] Custom for the colour scheme and layout and the Kimber TLE/RL II for the rail and grips. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 16:21, 22 June 2013 (EDT)

== The "I've no idea" launcher ==

I've no idea. It's a boxy tube. Is it anything?

[[Image:Arma3_titan_1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Boxy Tube. What is it? It looks a bit like a Javelin.]]

[[image:Arma3_titan_2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chewie models the boxy launcher. A Javelin is the only comparison I could ever be comfortable making.]]

[[image:Arma3_titan_3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|World view. It is ''very'' boxy.]]

:That is bizarre, any idea what happens when it fires? It doesn't appear to be based on anything, as it is very rare for something that fires a circular missile to have a square launch tube. Unless maybe it has multiple barrels like kind of like the [[M202 Flash]] or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:10, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

::While I didn't fire it, the scope view is identical to that of a Javelin. That's the only sane thing I could compare it to. --[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo|]] ([[User|Dannysaysnoo|talk]]) 10:45, 22 June 2013 (GMT)

= Attachments =

== Side Attachments ==
These mount on the side of the weapon.

=== IR Pointer ===
The IR Laser Pointer gives the user a beam of light down the muzzle, giving off a NV-visible only laser that indicates the user's muzzle point. It's used by both BLUFOR and OPFOR.
[[Image:Arma3_IR_Off.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An MX with an IR Pointer mounted. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_IR_On.jpg|thumb|none|600px|That same rifle, with the pointer switched on. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== Flashlight ===
The Flashlight gives off light. It's used by both BLUFOR and OPFOR.
[[Image:Arma3_flashlight_on.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A dark Stratis evening, brightened by the soldier's flashlight. Image taken from Alpha.]]

== Optics ==
These mount on the rifle's optic slot.

=== RCO (Rifle Combat Optic) ===
The RCO gives a 12x image, and has built in drop comp. Used by the BLUFOR faction.
[[Image:Arma3_RCO_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle view of an MX with an RCO attached. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_RCO_short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The upper holosight on the RCO. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_RCO_Long.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The scope of the RCO. You can see the drop comp markers. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== ARCO (Advanced Rifle Combat Optic) ===
Despite the Advanced moniker, these are very similar to the RCO, both having built in drop comp and 12x zoom. Used by the OPFOR faction.
[[Image:Arma3_ARCO_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle view of an ARCO, mounted to an MX rifle. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_ARCO_short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Holo sight of the ARCO. It seems that OPFOR sights have a predisposition to green. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_ARCO_long.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The scope of the ARCO. Still quite green. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== Holosight ===
The Holosight is an EOTech-like sight, used by BLUFOR.
[[Image:Arma3_Holo_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle view of the Holsight, mounted on an MX. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_Holo_short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sighted view of the Holosight. It's hard to see, but it has a small dot under the primary dot for drop comp. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== SOS (Sniper Optical Sight) ===
The SOS is mostly used with the anti-materiel rifles. It has a variable 10 to 84x zoom, and can be adjusted to hit up to 2300m targets. It's shared by both BLUFOR and OPFOR.
[[Image:Arma3_SOS_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle view of an SOS mounted on an MX, looking over a small Stratis city. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_SOS_short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The BUIS of the SOS. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_SOS_long.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Scoped view of the SOS. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== ACO (Advanced Colliminator Optic) ===
The ACO is one of the few attachments with two versions, one for BLUFOR, and one for OPFOR.
[[Image:Arma3_ACO_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle view of the ACO. The 3D view of the ACO is the same for both versions of the sight. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_ACO_Red.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The red version, seen here, is used by BLUFOR. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_ACO_green.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The green one is used by OPFOR. Image taken from Alpha.]]

== Suppressors ==
These mount on the Muzzle slot of the weapon. No weapon needs to change ammo type if a suppressor is attached, though this may change post-Alpha.

=== 6.5mm Suppressor ===
This is used by every 6.5mm weapon, namely assault rifles.
[[Image:Arma3_65.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An MX rifle, with a 6.5mm suppressor snapped on. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== 9mm Suppressor ===
These snap on 9mm weapons, like pistols.
[[Image:Arma3_9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A P-07 with a 9mm suppressor attached. This blocks the pistol's iron sights if attached. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== 6.5mm LMG Suppressor ===
This is used exclusively by the Mk 200 machine gun.
[[Image:Arma3_65_lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Mk 200 with a 6.5mm LMG suppressor attached. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== 7.62mm Suppressor ===
Used by 7.62mm weapons, like marksman rifles.
[[Image:Arma3_762.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An EBR with a 7.62mm suppressor attached. Image taken from Alpha.]]

= Discussion =
== F2000 Foregrip ==
The F2000's foregrip is a Monolith Arms Tri-Rail System. Since Monolith Arms got bought by Magpul, Magpul may start producing them. I don't know. But that's why the F2000 has the P90 style foregrip.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/Halomfg/DSCN5779.jpg?t=1257801238
--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 03:35, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:If they started producing them again I might actually take a look at buying an FS 2000. That Monolith Arms foregrip is just too badass. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:17, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

== Sniper rifle on the poster. ==

I put it down as a [[Barrett M99]], but can't be absolutely certain that its not a [[Barrett M95]] without seeing the magazine (of lack thereof), but the length of the forend makes me think M99. Can anyone who knows more about these confirm? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 09:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

Well, the guys on BIS forums are guessing M95. Also, about that unknown gun, it kinda sorta could be the new Skorpion. The EVO one? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 18:20, 26 June 2011 (CDT)
:I think your very well right about the unknown gun being the CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1, yep, it's defiantly it, way to go Tanaj! :) [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:51, 26 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well, to be honest I looked it up on their forum. But to my credit it was one of my guesses even before that. :) [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 09:02, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== Machine gun - Caseless ammo? ==
Anyone else notice that the ammo appears to look like the LSAT's caseless round? (http://cdn1.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/lsat_ammunition-tfb.jpg for reference) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:50, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
:Difficult to say, might be just an early model, but I do remember seeing a screenshot from the E3 presentation with a reload/pickup prompt with some more exotic round. 6.8 I think, but I'm not sure. [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 09:02, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== Any ideas? ==

on what the unknown rifle is? i've seen the stock somewhere but the straight mag throws me (Could be for 6.5/6.8mm rounds) http://i.imgur.com/wUNOD.jpg
Source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0tOSjYgGvHw#!

Looks to just be Bohemia's take on the Remington ACR, similar to their take on the KAC LMG. Stock seems to be a cross between the ACR adjustable stock and a Magpul UBR, receiver configuration looks to have the same profile. Same overall weapon profile, with some key differences (Like location of the charging handle, and rail system). But my money is that it was just based off of the ACR. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:50, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
:Confirmed by a inside source, its in game name is the MX, its the NATO standard rifle and it fires the 6.5 Grendel. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 06:36, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::Not so much inside source as its name being plastered on all the E3 infantry gameplay.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 06:31, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::: No, inside source, I've known for a few months but haven't been on the site for a while; the gurrilla's also use the tavor... [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 06:36, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:::: Tavor was one of the first weapons shown. Post something unknown for credibility. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 10:07, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::::: Well i would love to but i prefer to avoid breaking my NDA and losing €25,000... [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 19:22, 14 June 2012 (CDT)
Is it just me or does the magazine look too small for 6.5mm Grendel? Or maybe the scaling is just off in that first screenshot. Also, it is odd they have made the magazine straight, as the 6.5mm Grendel roung has a taper so the mag would need to be curved just like a .223. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:45, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:That said, could it perhaps be chambered in some fictional caseless round? From what I understand (which is, granted, only stuff freely available online), the LSAT concept using a 5.56mm round isn't finalised and could be subject to change (assuming it ever sees the light of day). I suspect that this might be Bohemia's guess at what the LSAT rifle might look like. Just conjecture, but I thought it couldn't hurt to float the idea. [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 20:10, 4 July 2012 (CDT)

== Glock 19 ==
As noted as a PO7, it is most likely a place holder for the CZ PO7 Duty, thoughts? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 01:49, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:It's probably just a fictionalized name. ArmA II used G17 for it, and it looks like a nearly photo identical model was used for ArmA III. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 18:19, 2 February 2013

::Well, everything is possible. We'll just wait and see :P --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] ([[User talk:RaNgeR|talk]]) 13:49, 3 February 2013 (EST)

:::Something fun I noticed during a trawl through some Gamescon 2012 footage. [[Image:9x21.jpg|thumb|none|350px]]
:::Click on that and expand it. The "Glock" is chambered in 9x21mm. It seems to mention a weapon similar to the PP-2000 as well. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:49, 8 Febuary 2013

== Alpha release on March 5th ==

The alpha release will be on March 5th. We've been promised 12 weapons. I'll try and find out which as soon as I can. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 22:48, 26 Febuary 2013

== Extended list of guns in the final game ==

In the Alpha a list of gun references were extracted from the files (with BIS's blessing). It may not be final or complete but it has some interesting entries:

* M200 LMG (KAC LMG)
* P07 (pistol)
* MK26 (revolver)
* Rook 40 (pistol)
* PDW2000 (pistol)
* P99 (pistol)
* Rhino (revolver)
* ACPC2 (pistol)
* Herstal 45 Tactical (pistol, FNP-45)
* Flaregun
* Tripwire flare (in the mines folder)
* MK16 (very few references)
* MK17 (very few references)
* MK20 (F2000)
* MX
* MX LMG
* MX DMR
* MX CQC
* TRG 20 (CTAR)
* TRG 21 (Tavor)
* Titan launcher
* RPG-32
* NLAW
* M26 explosives
* IED
* Scorpion
* SDAR (Keltec RFB)
* Keltec KSG
* M14 EBR
* Khaybar
* Cheytac M200 (called the M320 ingame)
* AA-40 (shotgun)
* Vector
* M4 SSAS (shotgun)
* Lynx GM6
* AK-107 (very few references)
* MM-1 (very few references)
* M67 grenade
* M18 smoke
* PDM-1M mine
* PMR-3 mine

== Beta Weapons Added ==

I just added the

-Scorpion
-Vector
-1911 alike
-F2000
-Negev
-Titan

I couldn't properly identify the 1911 and the Titan, so I've left them up for others to identify.

Talk:Arma 3

2013-06-22T20:21:46Z

Scarecrow: /* "ACP C2 9mm" */

= Unknown =

== "ACP C2 9mm" ==

The "ACP C2" is definately a 1911 variant. I need some help identifying it specifically.

[[image:Arma3_1911_1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Floor view of the 1911.]]

[[image:Arma3_1911_2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|First person view. Lovely sights..]]

[[image:Arma3_1911_3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chewie models the lovely 1911. Any ideas?]]

It seems to be a [http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/ColtRailGun%C2%AE.aspx Colt Rail Gun], but the jury is still out. [[user:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]]

:Not sure it is pure 100% anything, but don't think it is based on a Colt gun as the serrations are too wide and the accessory rail is the wrong shape. Both of these seem to match the [[Kimber 1911 Series]] series though, like the Warrior. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:05, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

::Receiver and the slide are more certainly based on the Warrior series, but also has a three hole trigger and grips like the Colt's Rail Gun. Overall I'd say it's much more closer to Kimber's product then Colt's. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 03:10, 22 June 2013 (EDT)
:::It is kind of a cross between a Kimber Custom TLE/RL II and a Warrior, however there are some differences that don't seem consistent with any pistol. It may just be me, but that ejection port looks way to high up on the slide, and it also lacks the scalloped bit at the back that was introduced on the M1911A1 that most 1911 clones have. Also, the pattern of the grips is weird with that odd curved bit at the top of the upper diamond, the closest match to me is actually crimson trace grips if you got rid of the laser and the button, like [[Media:Kimber Pro Crimson Carry II.jpg|these]]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:02, 22 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Considering on the side of the slide is textured 'Pro Qwert III' and the serial number is the same, i think it's safe to say it's a hybrid of the Kimber Covert II Custom for the colour scheme and layout and the Kimber TLE/RL II for the rail and grips. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 16:21, 22 June 2013 (EDT)

== The "I've no idea" launcher ==

I've no idea. It's a boxy tube. Is it anything?

[[Image:Arma3_titan_1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Boxy Tube. What is it? It looks a bit like a Javelin.]]

[[image:Arma3_titan_2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chewie models the boxy launcher. A Javelin is the only comparison I could ever be comfortable making.]]

[[image:Arma3_titan_3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|World view. It is ''very'' boxy.]]

:That is bizarre, any idea what happens when it fires? It doesn't appear to be based on anything, as it is very rare for something that fires a circular missile to have a square launch tube. Unless maybe it has multiple barrels like kind of like the [[M202 Flash]] or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:10, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

::While I didn't fire it, the scope view is identical to that of a Javelin. That's the only sane thing I could compare it to. --[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo|]] ([[User|Dannysaysnoo|talk]]) 10:45, 22 June 2013 (GMT)

= Attachments =

== Side Attachments ==
These mount on the side of the weapon.

=== IR Pointer ===
The IR Laser Pointer gives the user a beam of light down the muzzle, giving off a NV-visible only laser that indicates the user's muzzle point. It's used by both BLUFOR and OPFOR.
[[Image:Arma3_IR_Off.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An MX with an IR Pointer mounted. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_IR_On.jpg|thumb|none|600px|That same rifle, with the pointer switched on. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== Flashlight ===
The Flashlight gives off light. It's used by both BLUFOR and OPFOR.
[[Image:Arma3_flashlight_on.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A dark Stratis evening, brightened by the soldier's flashlight. Image taken from Alpha.]]

== Optics ==
These mount on the rifle's optic slot.

=== RCO (Rifle Combat Optic) ===
The RCO gives a 12x image, and has built in drop comp. Used by the BLUFOR faction.
[[Image:Arma3_RCO_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle view of an MX with an RCO attached. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_RCO_short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The upper holosight on the RCO. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_RCO_Long.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The scope of the RCO. You can see the drop comp markers. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== ARCO (Advanced Rifle Combat Optic) ===
Despite the Advanced moniker, these are very similar to the RCO, both having built in drop comp and 12x zoom. Used by the OPFOR faction.
[[Image:Arma3_ARCO_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle view of an ARCO, mounted to an MX rifle. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_ARCO_short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Holo sight of the ARCO. It seems that OPFOR sights have a predisposition to green. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_ARCO_long.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The scope of the ARCO. Still quite green. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== Holosight ===
The Holosight is an EOTech-like sight, used by BLUFOR.
[[Image:Arma3_Holo_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle view of the Holsight, mounted on an MX. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_Holo_short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sighted view of the Holosight. It's hard to see, but it has a small dot under the primary dot for drop comp. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== SOS (Sniper Optical Sight) ===
The SOS is mostly used with the anti-materiel rifles. It has a variable 10 to 84x zoom, and can be adjusted to hit up to 2300m targets. It's shared by both BLUFOR and OPFOR.
[[Image:Arma3_SOS_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle view of an SOS mounted on an MX, looking over a small Stratis city. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_SOS_short.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The BUIS of the SOS. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_SOS_long.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Scoped view of the SOS. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== ACO (Advanced Colliminator Optic) ===
The ACO is one of the few attachments with two versions, one for BLUFOR, and one for OPFOR.
[[Image:Arma3_ACO_idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle view of the ACO. The 3D view of the ACO is the same for both versions of the sight. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_ACO_Red.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The red version, seen here, is used by BLUFOR. Image taken from Alpha.]]
[[Image:Arma3_ACO_green.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The green one is used by OPFOR. Image taken from Alpha.]]

== Suppressors ==
These mount on the Muzzle slot of the weapon. No weapon needs to change ammo type if a suppressor is attached, though this may change post-Alpha.

=== 6.5mm Suppressor ===
This is used by every 6.5mm weapon, namely assault rifles.
[[Image:Arma3_65.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An MX rifle, with a 6.5mm suppressor snapped on. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== 9mm Suppressor ===
These snap on 9mm weapons, like pistols.
[[Image:Arma3_9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A P-07 with a 9mm suppressor attached. This blocks the pistol's iron sights if attached. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== 6.5mm LMG Suppressor ===
This is used exclusively by the Mk 200 machine gun.
[[Image:Arma3_65_lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Mk 200 with a 6.5mm LMG suppressor attached. Image taken from Alpha.]]

=== 7.62mm Suppressor ===
Used by 7.62mm weapons, like marksman rifles.
[[Image:Arma3_762.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An EBR with a 7.62mm suppressor attached. Image taken from Alpha.]]

= Discussion =
== F2000 Foregrip ==
The F2000's foregrip is a Monolith Arms Tri-Rail System. Since Monolith Arms got bought by Magpul, Magpul may start producing them. I don't know. But that's why the F2000 has the P90 style foregrip.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/Halomfg/DSCN5779.jpg?t=1257801238
--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 03:35, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:If they started producing them again I might actually take a look at buying an FS 2000. That Monolith Arms foregrip is just too badass. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:17, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

== Sniper rifle on the poster. ==

I put it down as a [[Barrett M99]], but can't be absolutely certain that its not a [[Barrett M95]] without seeing the magazine (of lack thereof), but the length of the forend makes me think M99. Can anyone who knows more about these confirm? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 09:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

Well, the guys on BIS forums are guessing M95. Also, about that unknown gun, it kinda sorta could be the new Skorpion. The EVO one? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 18:20, 26 June 2011 (CDT)
:I think your very well right about the unknown gun being the CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1, yep, it's defiantly it, way to go Tanaj! :) [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:51, 26 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well, to be honest I looked it up on their forum. But to my credit it was one of my guesses even before that. :) [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 09:02, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== Machine gun - Caseless ammo? ==
Anyone else notice that the ammo appears to look like the LSAT's caseless round? (http://cdn1.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/lsat_ammunition-tfb.jpg for reference) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:50, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
:Difficult to say, might be just an early model, but I do remember seeing a screenshot from the E3 presentation with a reload/pickup prompt with some more exotic round. 6.8 I think, but I'm not sure. [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 09:02, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== Any ideas? ==

on what the unknown rifle is? i've seen the stock somewhere but the straight mag throws me (Could be for 6.5/6.8mm rounds) http://i.imgur.com/wUNOD.jpg
Source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0tOSjYgGvHw#!

Looks to just be Bohemia's take on the Remington ACR, similar to their take on the KAC LMG. Stock seems to be a cross between the ACR adjustable stock and a Magpul UBR, receiver configuration looks to have the same profile. Same overall weapon profile, with some key differences (Like location of the charging handle, and rail system). But my money is that it was just based off of the ACR. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:50, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
:Confirmed by a inside source, its in game name is the MX, its the NATO standard rifle and it fires the 6.5 Grendel. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 06:36, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::Not so much inside source as its name being plastered on all the E3 infantry gameplay.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 06:31, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::: No, inside source, I've known for a few months but haven't been on the site for a while; the gurrilla's also use the tavor... [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 06:36, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:::: Tavor was one of the first weapons shown. Post something unknown for credibility. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 10:07, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::::: Well i would love to but i prefer to avoid breaking my NDA and losing €25,000... [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 19:22, 14 June 2012 (CDT)
Is it just me or does the magazine look too small for 6.5mm Grendel? Or maybe the scaling is just off in that first screenshot. Also, it is odd they have made the magazine straight, as the 6.5mm Grendel roung has a taper so the mag would need to be curved just like a .223. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:45, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:That said, could it perhaps be chambered in some fictional caseless round? From what I understand (which is, granted, only stuff freely available online), the LSAT concept using a 5.56mm round isn't finalised and could be subject to change (assuming it ever sees the light of day). I suspect that this might be Bohemia's guess at what the LSAT rifle might look like. Just conjecture, but I thought it couldn't hurt to float the idea. [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 20:10, 4 July 2012 (CDT)

== Glock 19 ==
As noted as a PO7, it is most likely a place holder for the CZ PO7 Duty, thoughts? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 01:49, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:It's probably just a fictionalized name. ArmA II used G17 for it, and it looks like a nearly photo identical model was used for ArmA III. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 18:19, 2 February 2013

::Well, everything is possible. We'll just wait and see :P --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] ([[User talk:RaNgeR|talk]]) 13:49, 3 February 2013 (EST)

:::Something fun I noticed during a trawl through some Gamescon 2012 footage. [[Image:9x21.jpg|thumb|none|350px]]
:::Click on that and expand it. The "Glock" is chambered in 9x21mm. It seems to mention a weapon similar to the PP-2000 as well. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:49, 8 Febuary 2013

== Alpha release on March 5th ==

The alpha release will be on March 5th. We've been promised 12 weapons. I'll try and find out which as soon as I can. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 22:48, 26 Febuary 2013

== Extended list of guns in the final game ==

In the Alpha a list of gun references were extracted from the files (with BIS's blessing). It may not be final or complete but it has some interesting entries:

* M200 LMG (KAC LMG)
* P07 (pistol)
* MK26 (revolver)
* Rook 40 (pistol)
* PDW2000 (pistol)
* P99 (pistol)
* Rhino (revolver)
* ACPC2 (pistol)
* Herstal 45 Tactical (pistol, FNP-45)
* Flaregun
* Tripwire flare (in the mines folder)
* MK16 (very few references)
* MK17 (very few references)
* MK20 (F2000)
* MX
* MX LMG
* MX DMR
* MX CQC
* TRG 20 (CTAR)
* TRG 21 (Tavor)
* Titan launcher
* RPG-32
* NLAW
* M26 explosives
* IED
* Scorpion
* SDAR (Keltec RFB)
* Keltec KSG
* M14 EBR
* Khaybar
* Cheytac M200 (called the M320 ingame)
* AA-40 (shotgun)
* Vector
* M4 SSAS (shotgun)
* Lynx GM6
* AK-107 (very few references)
* MM-1 (very few references)
* M67 grenade
* M18 smoke
* PDM-1M mine
* PMR-3 mine

== Beta Weapons Added ==

I just added the

-Scorpion
-Vector
-1911 alike
-F2000
-Negev
-Titan

I couldn't properly identify the 1911 and the Titan, so I've left them up for others to identify.

Talk:End of Watch

2012-12-24T16:15:33Z

Scarecrow: /* Any chance the Glocks are actually 19's? */

== Glock 22 ==

Just FYI for anyone that is wondering, I ID'd the Glocks as 22s from a ''Total Film'' article which had a closeup shot of the side of the pistol showing the slide markings. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:21, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

At the beginning of the film, the guy said his gun is a Glock 19 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:36, 23 September 2012 (EDT)

:Look at the bottom discussion topic. if he says that it is a goof, as firstly it is a full size gun so would be a 17 if it was a 9mm, and promotional images show that the physical gun has 22 slide markings. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:46, 23 September 2012 (EDT)

==DEA Weapons?==

Saw a trailer for this earlier, and saw a DEA Agent armed with some sort of [[M16 rifle series|AR]]-type carbine. Anyone think they can ID it for the page? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] ([[User talk:Orca1 9904|talk]]) 09:51, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

Can't see it from all the trailers I've seen. Guess we'll have to wait for the movie to come out. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:07, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

I think that literally all you see of it in the trailer is the fact that it has a Crane stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:34, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

The camera perspective in the scene is from the 'chest cam' so most of its shaky and his hand is covering the trigger and the fire selector is always facing the user so i can't tell what kind of AR-15 it is, other than it's a AR-15 (Had a flat top, FA, full fencing and possably a brass deflector, so i guess assuming it was a M4 would be fine >_>), had a Crane Stock(?), KAC rail covers, a foregrip and was using a EOTech XPS 3 or 2, also seemed to have a short barrel, a educated guess would be a 11.5" barrel. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 11:14, 24 December 2012 (EST)

== 92? ==

Saw this in another trailer

[[File:Endofwatch92.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Can't be 100% on whether the specific model is correct without seeing more of the gun, but think it is actually a [[Smith & Wesson 39]]. Either way, I think it is a S&W auto rather than a Beretta. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:45, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
:That's definitely some kind of Smith & Wesson auto. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:50, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
On closer examination I'll upgrade what I said to it definitely being a S&W 39. Thought it might have been a 439, but you can just make out the hole in the hammer which wasn't there on the 2nd gen pistols. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:33, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

== Any chance the Glocks are actually 19's? ==

I ask because I saw the movie tonight and Taylor specifically calls his Glock a "Glock 19". Now I know normally I shouldn't go by what was said in the script but during one of the POV segments, I think I might have seen a 19 on the slide. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 01:00, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
:I id'd them as 22 based on promotional photos in a magazine article where you could see the "22" slide markings. Will try and see if I can find the shot online. Also they look like they have full length slides to me, particularly in the shot where Zavala is coming through the door. Could be that the two of them are carrying different guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:50, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
::Found it:[[File:EOW Glock slide markings.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Hires promotional image showing the Glock slide markings.]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:56, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

Perhaps they could indeed be carrying 2 different guns, I honestly can't say without seeing the movie again and potentially a pause button. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 17:56, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
:From that promo image it appears that at least Taylor is carrying a Glock 22 (contrary to the dialogue you quoted), and in other caps

:@Bristow Nope, this is a cap from the exact point where he says "This is the department issue sidearm, Glock 19."
http://i.minus.com/ibaxvcTJVzqYVG.jpg You can clearly see the markings noting it as a 22 in .40SW [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 10:50, 24 December 2012 (EST)

Zavala has a full length Glock so if it was a 9x19mm it would be a Glock 17. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:01, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

:Well it wouldn't be the first time what was on the script and what is actually used on the screen is different. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:18, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

::Once again, you guys are over-analyzing too much. The explanation is very simple: The script called for Glock 19s, but the property master/armor chose to bring Glock 22s to the set, and nobody bothered to correct the actors on the inconsistency. It happens all the time (the classic example that comes to mind is ''[[Kiss the Girls]]'', where the film's antagonist calls Alex Cross's sidearm a Glock because the script dialogue was taken straight from the book, even though the gun actually used in the movie is a SIG 226). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 11:03, 24 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:End of Watch

2012-12-24T16:14:48Z

Scarecrow: /* DEA Weapons? */

== Glock 22 ==

Just FYI for anyone that is wondering, I ID'd the Glocks as 22s from a ''Total Film'' article which had a closeup shot of the side of the pistol showing the slide markings. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:21, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

At the beginning of the film, the guy said his gun is a Glock 19 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:36, 23 September 2012 (EDT)

:Look at the bottom discussion topic. if he says that it is a goof, as firstly it is a full size gun so would be a 17 if it was a 9mm, and promotional images show that the physical gun has 22 slide markings. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:46, 23 September 2012 (EDT)

==DEA Weapons?==

Saw a trailer for this earlier, and saw a DEA Agent armed with some sort of [[M16 rifle series|AR]]-type carbine. Anyone think they can ID it for the page? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] ([[User talk:Orca1 9904|talk]]) 09:51, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

Can't see it from all the trailers I've seen. Guess we'll have to wait for the movie to come out. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:07, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

I think that literally all you see of it in the trailer is the fact that it has a Crane stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:34, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

The camera perspective in the scene is from the 'chest cam' so most of its shaky and his hand is covering the trigger and the fire selector is always facing the user so i can't tell what kind of AR-15 it is, other than it's a AR-15 (Had a flat top, FA, full fencing and possably a brass deflector, so i guess assuming it was a M4 would be fine >_>), had a Crane Stock(?), KAC rail covers, a foregrip and was using a EOTech XPS 3 or 2, also seemed to have a short barrel, a educated guess would be a 11.5" barrel. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 11:14, 24 December 2012 (EST)

== 92? ==

Saw this in another trailer

[[File:Endofwatch92.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Can't be 100% on whether the specific model is correct without seeing more of the gun, but think it is actually a [[Smith & Wesson 39]]. Either way, I think it is a S&W auto rather than a Beretta. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:45, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
:That's definitely some kind of Smith & Wesson auto. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:50, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
On closer examination I'll upgrade what I said to it definitely being a S&W 39. Thought it might have been a 439, but you can just make out the hole in the hammer which wasn't there on the 2nd gen pistols. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:33, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

== Any chance the Glocks are actually 19's? ==

I ask because I saw the movie tonight and Taylor specifically calls his Glock a "Glock 19". Now I know normally I shouldn't go by what was said in the script but during one of the POV segments, I think I might have seen a 19 on the slide. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 01:00, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
:I id'd them as 22 based on promotional photos in a magazine article where you could see the "22" slide markings. Will try and see if I can find the shot online. Also they look like they have full length slides to me, particularly in the shot where Zavala is coming through the door. Could be that the two of them are carrying different guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:50, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
::Found it:[[File:EOW Glock slide markings.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Hires promotional image showing the Glock slide markings.]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:56, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

Perhaps they could indeed be carrying 2 different guns, I honestly can't say without seeing the movie again and potentially a pause button. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 17:56, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
:From that promo image it appears that at least Taylor is carrying a Glock 22 (contrary to the dialogue you quoted), and in other caps
:@Bristow Nope, this is a cap from the exact point where he says "This is the department issue sidearm, Glock 19."
http://i.minus.com/ibaxvcTJVzqYVG.jpg You can clearly see the markings noting it as a 22 in .40SW [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 10:50, 24 December 2012 (EST)

Zavala has a full length Glock so if it was a 9x19mm it would be a Glock 17. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:01, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

:Well it wouldn't be the first time what was on the script and what is actually used on the screen is different. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:18, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

::Once again, you guys are over-analyzing too much. The explanation is very simple: The script called for Glock 19s, but the property master/armor chose to bring Glock 22s to the set, and nobody bothered to correct the actors on the inconsistency. It happens all the time (the classic example that comes to mind is ''[[Kiss the Girls]]'', where the film's antagonist calls Alex Cross's sidearm a Glock because the script dialogue was taken straight from the book, even though the gun actually used in the movie is a SIG 226). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 11:03, 24 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:End of Watch

2012-12-24T15:50:32Z

Scarecrow: /* Any chance the Glocks are actually 19's? */

== Glock 22 ==

Just FYI for anyone that is wondering, I ID'd the Glocks as 22s from a ''Total Film'' article which had a closeup shot of the side of the pistol showing the slide markings. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:21, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

At the beginning of the film, the guy said his gun is a Glock 19 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:36, 23 September 2012 (EDT)

:Look at the bottom discussion topic. if he says that it is a goof, as firstly it is a full size gun so would be a 17 if it was a 9mm, and promotional images show that the physical gun has 22 slide markings. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:46, 23 September 2012 (EDT)

==DEA Weapons?==

Saw a trailer for this earlier, and saw a DEA Agent armed with some sort of [[M16 rifle series|AR]]-type carbine. Anyone think they can ID it for the page? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] ([[User talk:Orca1 9904|talk]]) 09:51, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

Can't see it from all the trailers I've seen. Guess we'll have to wait for the movie to come out. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:07, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

I think that literally all you see of it in the trailer is the fact that it has a Crane stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:34, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

== 92? ==

Saw this in another trailer

[[File:Endofwatch92.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Can't be 100% on whether the specific model is correct without seeing more of the gun, but think it is actually a [[Smith & Wesson 39]]. Either way, I think it is a S&W auto rather than a Beretta. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:45, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
:That's definitely some kind of Smith & Wesson auto. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:50, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
On closer examination I'll upgrade what I said to it definitely being a S&W 39. Thought it might have been a 439, but you can just make out the hole in the hammer which wasn't there on the 2nd gen pistols. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:33, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

== Any chance the Glocks are actually 19's? ==

I ask because I saw the movie tonight and Taylor specifically calls his Glock a "Glock 19". Now I know normally I shouldn't go by what was said in the script but during one of the POV segments, I think I might have seen a 19 on the slide. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 01:00, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
:I id'd them as 22 based on promotional photos in a magazine article where you could see the "22" slide markings. Will try and see if I can find the shot online. Also they look like they have full length slides to me, particularly in the shot where Zavala is coming through the door. Could be that the two of them are carrying different guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:50, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
::Found it:[[File:EOW Glock slide markings.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Hires promotional image showing the Glock slide markings.]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:56, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

Perhaps they could indeed be carrying 2 different guns, I honestly can't say without seeing the movie again and potentially a pause button. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 17:56, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
:From that promo image it appears that at least Taylor is carrying a Glock 22 (contrary to the dialogue you quoted), and in other caps
:@Bristow Nope, this is a cap from the exact point where he says "This is the department issue sidearm, Glock 19."
http://i.minus.com/ibaxvcTJVzqYVG.jpg You can clearly see the markings noting it as a 22 in .40SW [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 10:50, 24 December 2012 (EST)

Zavala has a full length Glock so if it was a 9x19mm it would be a Glock 17. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:01, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
Well it wouldn't be the first time what was on the script and what is actually used on the screen is different. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:18, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

Talk:The Walking Dead (TV Series)

2012-10-16T02:09:04Z

Scarecrow:

==OTHER==
That's Norman Reedus with the crossbow. He plays Daryl Dixon, who was not in the actual comic that I can recall. I like that though, he's a cool actor. I'm also a little bummed that they didn't use the guns drawn in the comics. Rick uses a HK mk.23. For those of you who might think that it's impossible to tell that from the comic the artist wrote HK MK.23 on the barrel. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I read some where that the Walker are attracted to loud noises. that might be why he is carrying a crossbow

It is smart to use a crossbow; because it saves on bullets and in most all undead literature and movies the undead always react and swarm when they hear a gunshot. Very good show, have never read the comic but look forward to.-GoshMr.Peabody

It's pretty amazing. I recommend buying the trade paperbacks. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Not only does a crossbow save on ammo and is silent, crossbow bolts can be retrieved and reused repeatedly before they bend, dull, break, or otherwise can't be used any longer. In effect, Daryl has essentially a near-infinite source of ammunition. As for Rick, I think the Python suits him better. It has personality, the Mark 23... not so much. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:43, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==Whoa==
I loved the comic, when the hell did it get a tv show?

The idea was revealed a while ago. It comes out on Halloween. -SasquatchJim

honestly , its like two hours till the show ,i cant wait. simmons 8492

Well it kept my interest. I'll watch it again next week to see if it can maintain the momentum.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

honestly it took some time to realy get things going , but now hes in a populated zone with other survivers . and if i was him id start that tank up! simmons 8492

I coulda sworn the 50 on that tank was still loaded with ammo and in the next scene, it had no ammo [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Just watched it again. The .50 on the tank doesn't appear to be loaded, but there's another one in a sandbag fort that is, in the foreground as he goes by. -IGemini 04:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

iv watched it from the start and i have to say its great simmons 8492

== Crappy dialogue ==

In the trailer, one of the cops told the other to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off. First off, the man he was talking to, had a Glock, so no safety. And since he's a trained cop, ready to open fire on a suspect that's hostile, why wouldn't he have a round in the chamber and his gun ready to go? That line just threw me off [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, just watched it. Its brilliant, easily as good as the comic. The 'crappy dialogue above does jar a little tho. Hes telling him to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off as it is implied the officer in question is a bit useless, however after doing a brass check the officer in question then presses down on the slide release (even tho the slide is forward) as if to pretend it is the saftey catch. Morgan has a 5 shot snub revolver (which someone else will have to identify as im not too good with em). Rick pull a 92fs (standing in for an m9) from a dead soldiers shoulder holster at the end of the episode, and i'm fairly sure the SIG is a tutone P228 or 229 not a P239 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe Basset is so damn useless that he hasn't even figured out that Glocks don't come with manual safeties... --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:28, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing about the thing with the safety is that you can hear the sound of a safety being click off.--[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 04:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Remember that the dialogue was written long before it was decided the cop would be holding a Glock(unless the writer is Michael Mann). So maybe the round in the chamber thing may have been unwarranted, but maybe he was a rookie, he did seem sort of skittish. Regardless, it's unfair to call ''that'' crappy dialogue. I think you're letting your knowledge of guns get in the way of enjoying good stories.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 04:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Dont know if its worth noting, but the cop he tells that too, is actually, the first zombie he ends up shooting, after leaving the police station. Rick commented he was careless and dumb, so reminding him, makes sense.

And, of course, Rick committed a cardinal sin; he referred to a magazine as a clip :P -SasquatchJim

I'm not surprised, Sasqatch. The cop I talked to called his Glock 17 a "Glock 9". I'm sure he would have said clip to. Not all cops are into guns. Haha

:He also could have meant "Glock 9mm", you know, since "9" is common shorthand for 9mm. When has anyone referred to .45 ACP as "11.43mm"? Hell, I once had a conversation with a Korean War vet about 1911s and when I referred to the cartridge by its dimensions, he had a dumbfounded look on his face and "corrected" me, telling me that the 1911A1 was "a 45, not no 11-something". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:51, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==SIG P239==

[[Image:WalkingDead-SIGP239.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|A chase suspect emerges from the wrecked car firing a two-tone SIG P239 at police.]]

This doesn't look like a P239 to me; more like a P226 or P228. It's too big, and it has nickel controls (which the two-tone P239s don't have). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:P228 because of the slide length. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Remember, on low resolution screencaps like the ones I had to use, feel free to correct the Gun IDs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::: Watching the scene I agree that it is somewhat larger. Sounds fine to me - I'll change it. The first episode was pretty good. I'm adding a Beretta 92FS (M9) entry - Grimes indeed takes one off a 'dead' soldier inside the Abrams tank he gets into, as noted by the above section. Also, I never did get a good glance at the snub revolver, though I'm fairly certain it's a S&W. They're replaying the show so I'll keep an eye for it, and some of the other guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

==Spoiler Comment and Morgan's Revolver==
Its nice to see the page updated but arn't some of the descriptions (mainly the colt python) a bit spoilerific for anyone who hasn't watched it yet? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Whoa, yes they are, I sure as hell didn't add those. :b I'll reword them somewhat. Also! The revolver Morgan uses is a Snub S&W Model 66, I can almost guarantee it. Bah, wish I could get screencaps. Still, I'll add that as well. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure its a 66? I remember it having a 5 round cylinder --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I grabbed this off my skyplus box so sorry bout the quality [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2i700fm.jpg[/IMG] Any use, its definatly a 5 shot--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: I could have ''sworn'' it was a S&W. But it's definitely not a Model 66, since there's no rear adj. sights, nor of course a 6-shot cylinder. But Smith snubbie J-frames (5-shot) all have flat 'bull-nose' ejector rod shrouds, not curved. Bah, now I'm kinda stumped. My best guess at this point would probably be a [[Ruger SP101]]. Convert that image there to JPG and upload it on the site. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::Looks like it could also be either the [[Taurus Model 617]] or possibly a stainless steel [[Taurus Model 85]]. Biu it is difficult.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

From the barrel it looks like an early Taurus Model 85 in stainless or nickel plated. It was a five shot cylinder definitely.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: After posting I did consider it being a Taurus, many of them are awfully S&W looking to begin with. I doubt it's a 617 but it easily could be an 85. Hell, could be anything for all I know at this point. I guess it'll just be another 'unidentified' until we get more/better screencaps. I'll modify the S&W 66 entry I posted and just call it un-ID'd snub revolver, noting the 5-shot capacity and stating the possible choices. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I am almost certain it is actually a Ruger SP101, two inch model. No other snubbie, as far as I know, has the upper rear of the frame shaped into a rear sight notch like the SP101, as both of those Taurus models just lack rear sights - you can check the Taurus website as both models lack a "rear sight" category under specifications. Also, if you check out the behind the scenes vid [http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/?bclid=625294007001&bcpid=111717822001&bctid=628200502001 here], there is a pretty decent side shot of the revolver. The general shape is very close to a SP101, and even from the front, the lines on Morgan's triggerguard and barrel are cut much closer semi-melted look on the SP than the very sharp ones on a Taurus oR S&W.

All said, the easiest way to tell would be if they showed the damned cylinder release at some point. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 07:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC) (Corrected typo --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 02:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

: It's not an SP101. The recoil shield shown is a simple traditional shape, not the bulkier contours Rugers have in that part of the frame. Also, the ejector rod shroud is cut back more sharply from the muzzle, and the revolver in the show seems to lack the small hole on the front of the frame for the front crane lock. [[User:Rule .303|Rule .303]] 14:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Judging by the screens uploaded I'd say definately not a 617, 617 is a 7-shot, also can't see a ported barrel. Still think it's a Taurus though. [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 09:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

If you watch the Making of the Walking dead Season 1 it shows the side of the revolver.. Looks exactly like the Ruger SP101 from Breaking Bad. I'm guessing its the same prop. (Just like I think the RV is. )

: It's definately not a Ruger SP101. As to the comment of the SP101 being unique with regards to the rear notch site. Nope. All snubbies have that. I have both the Taurus 85 (old shape) and the Taurus 85 Stainless. Looks much more like that due to the unique underlug on the revolver. Also look at the SP101's front. http://www.dayattherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sp101target8.jpg Definately not what we are seeing in these screen captures. [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 07:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It appears to be a Taurus 405 to me. Looks large-bored, probably .40S&W so that would match the 405. The front sight is tiny from that back angle which also matches the 405, the cylinder backing plate is the same etc. krispic 21:36 Feb 22 2012

== What kind of tank was that? ==

Its oviously a stand-in for an M-1 but I'm not sure what it is. I'm thinking possibly a Chieftain, but I'm not sure. Also, note that a real M-1 woulnd't have worked for the scene since it lacks the floor escape hatch.

-AC.

:I'm also reasonably certain the 82nd Airborne Division doesn't have tanks in their TO&E, yet the (un)dead soldier in the tank had an 82nd patch on his left shoulder. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:32, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Well i would imagine that in the chaos of the zombie apocalypse lots of soldiers ended up with other units doin jobs they aren't really trained for.

Actually smaller units are frequently attached (I believe the Brits call it seconded) to other units for mission purposes. Some armor battalions spent the whole campaign in France (WW II, 1944-1945) being attached to various infantry units - to include the airborne. After all the elements of the 9th and 10th armor divisions that were in Bastogne during the siege fell under the 101st Airborne for the duration of that battle. Funny how the airborne mafia always seems to forget about all the ''other'' troops that fought in that battle. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:17, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

At this point I'm not sure, but I do suspect it's the same tank that shows up in ''[[Zombieland]]''. Both shows are filmed in Georgia and the voice-over commentary on ''Zombieland'' states that the tank is owned by a private collector.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Definately a Chieftain.

: I concur, Chieftains are often used (mocked-up) as stand-ins for Abrams tanks. I also noticed the bottom escape hatch, which as far as I can recall, indeed isn't on an actual Abrams. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

''Other comments posted on main page-''

(Perhaps it is just me, but the Abrams featured in this appears to be a mocked up British Chieftain Tank, I didn't get a good look at the tank but it didn't seem to be a genuine Abrams, although it could simply be an older pattern M1 without the TUSK upgrade, reactive armor and the more apparent loaders hatch. Yet that would not explain the escape hatch.- Doc345)

Older M1s didn't look that diffrent, from the later ones, aside from the most recent upgardes.

Also, the angle of the frontal turret armor is wrong to be an M1.

I think this may be the same tank which appeared in, among other series, Jericho. The vehicle, if I remember correctly, is built on an old Centurion chasis to resemble an Abrams with some obvious differences. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

On a random note, where was a Striker seen in the episode? It says on the page that there was one with a fifty cal on it, but aside from the tank, the only other military vehicles I saw where some HMMWVs, what looked like a deuce, and a half, and some abandone Hueys.

Intrestingly, in the trailor, the one Rick first sees after leaving the hospital lacked a rotor blade making me think it was edited in post-production. Also, the one off to Ricks left appears to still be lacking one.

-AC

at the begging seen when the main cerictor walkes out of the hospital he sees a ebandoned military equpent you can see a Stryker IFV --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 21:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
heres a picture
[[Image:The walking dead.png]]

I can say without a doubt that the 'M1' ''is'' a Chieftain, not a Centurion. The long sloping frontal 'nose' armour, the front idler wheel and the lockers/storage bins are features of the Chieftain, not the Centurion. Not too sure about the 'escape hatch' though. I wonder if this is the same 'M1' that appears in the 2010 remake of Red Dawn? It looks the same to me. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

*Naw, that one they've actually made some modifications to like building up the hull and turret to be more Abrams-like and putting an M1-style bulge over the cylindrical fume extractor. This is just a Chieftain with a fake M2 awkwardly perched on top of the hatch weapon mounting. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:07, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Looked like a Gulf war era M60 Patton to me painted in tan on the exterior but i think the entire interior is a mock up (too spacious and the floor hatch) [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 21:59, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

== Things I noticed ==

Did anybody else notice that when Morgan cocked the hammer back on his gun and threatened to shoot Grimes if he didn't talk, the cylinder didn't advance to the next chamber like it should?

And what about Grimes' personal arsenal in his backpack? Is it safe to assume that rubber/resin mockups? He was getting bounced pretty hard by that horse and the guns kept bumping him in the back. That's at least 40 pounds of gear to be carrying around.

More than safe to assume that. Most of them even appeared to have solid barrels. Probably rubber.--[[Special:Contributions/99.48.50.70|99.48.50.70]] 04:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The cylinder did rotate, I remembered that happening when I watched the scene. As far as the bag -o- guns, I have no idea. If they were all rubber, they were modeled after some hard to find shotgun configurations and looked very real. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 20:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Grimes in episode 3 his duffle bag was holding six shotguns, two "high powered" rifles, a dozen handguns, and 700 rounds of assorted ammo. That's easily 80-90 pounds of gear. There's no way Grimes could be carrying that around in one hand with a gas can in the other. Or getting bucked and having the bag sag to the side and the stuff not come falling out.

Did anybody else notice that Dale seemed to switch between carrying a rifle with a sling, to carrying one without a sling between scenes?

== I rewatched the first episode. ==

Two of the Sheriffs deputys from the neighboring county had shotguns. One looked like and 870 Remington. The other looked like a Mossberg.

The gun used to shoot Rick, I'm pretty sure was either 1911, or a Glock. It seemed to have an extended slide.

-AC

:: I noticed the shotguns too but it was hard to get a decent look at them, mainly the second one (Mossberg I guess). I will concur at least one of the other shotguns was indeed a standard 870. No idea what the pistol is/was. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Almost positive the other two deputys, from the neighboring county had Glocks, like the other deputys from Ricks department.

You can see one of the shotguns fairly well, after Rick gots shot, one of the two deputys joins Shane in trying to help Rick. Like Shane, he drops his gun, and it can be seen fairly well.

Looking at the pick on here, I'm more positive than ever that the last gunmans weapon was a 1911.
Good eye on my part, since it was litreally visible for like less than a second.-AC.

==Andrea's gun==
I believe Andrea is packing a Smith and Wesson 3913 Ladysmith [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I concur. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Here's a good picture. http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-2-rick-andrea.php
[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:: I also agree about it being a 3913 Ladysmith. We also saw a M67 'baseball' grenade in this latest episode (actually the training version, you could still spot some blue paint on it). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of rifle did Meryl have? ==

Looked like possibly a Model 70, but I'm bad at identifing bolt actions.
-AC

Seriously, does anyone know what kind of rifle he had?-AC

Compare the bolt heads (or whatever the end of the bolt closest to the butt is called); the Remington 700 seems to have more of a protruding portion, while the Mod. 70 is tucked in and more square-like.

At least, that's what it seems like. There used to be a generic page for comparing Bolt-Action Rifles, like the shotguns have now. Where did that page go?

Here it is.

[[Bolt Action Rifles - Most common Sporting Models|Scoped Bolt Action Hunting Rifles]]. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

==Shane's Pistol==
Can anyone identify the pistol Shane is carrying? It looks like either a Glock or possibly a Sig Pro. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Probally a Gock. There very common cop guns, in both hollywood, and real life. Also, severael of the cops, at opening shootout had them, so evedently the prophouse they went to had some.
-AC

Definitely a Glock. Although it's only shown briefly, it looks like a 17. He carries it in a thumb break holster. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

Picture of him holding it: http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-4-carl-lori-shane-morales.php

After looking at the screenshot on the main page, can anyone identify the holster?

In the finale you can see its a Glock 19. Not 17. (Also the firing M4s looked like they had blank firing adapters as flashiders)

Definitely a 17 in the last episode when shane opens the barn doors and shhots all the walkers he fires too many rounds for it to be a 19

This is getting tiresome now, stop identifying guns based on the amount of rounds that they fire! It's a TV series where in editing they can easily make a 15 round magazine last for 80 rounds (see John Woo films) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:27, 2 January 2012 (CST)

==Merle==

It's Merle not Maryl or Marle

==Guts==
I really like how Rick actually checks the dead soldier's vest for more ammo instead of just taking the weapon like every other film. I also like how when his Beretta runs dry he doesn't toss it away like some generic action hero but he keeps it and stows it in Glenn's backpack. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that was good stuff. Have yet to see the Beretta again though. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:Did you also notice that his [[Colt Python]] is still in his hoslter even though he ran out of ammo for it? I liked that touch as well. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

You never know what you might find ammo for at a latter date.-AC
::Which he does in the third episode. Anyway Python's are too expensive to be tossing away on a whim. Even after the Zombie Apocalypse has happened. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

If I recall right they've been outta production since the late 90s.

::The last Python was manufactured approximately six years ago. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Still outta production than. If I recall right, for a while it was outta generael production, but could be special ordered.

Yes the last five or six years it had to be ordered through the custom shop.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The Python, and The Anaconda, where the best revolvers Colt made since the SAA imho-AC

IMO, the Official Police and Detective Special should be included as well. -SasquatchJim

Too bad that still fully loaded .50 next to the tank is too heavy to take back [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If he can walk and ride a horse with a 90lb bag on his back like its nothing, he could carry a M2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

And he brought buddies with him to GET that bag he left behind. They can lug around an M2 with ammo. Sure it doesn't look like there's any extra, but it's an M2 with AMMO! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

But honestly, what would be the purpose, in this story? I mean, they're already getting guns and ammo, and it's not like you need a lot of penetration to kill a zombie, so they don't really need a .50 caliber machinegun. All it would really do was kill a couple of zombies while making a shitload of noise, attracting every zombie in a mile radius. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 05:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

: I bet one would've come in handy on top of the camper during the attack on the camp. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::Possibly (I posted that before I saw that episode, sorry.), though I doubt any of them have any training or even any practice with military grade machine guns, and so I'm betting that during the chaos of the attack, they would have killed more of their own people. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:43, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
::: Woulda been kinda hard to use that thing in the dark, too, since the only source of light is that campfire. Scoring headshots on zombies without friendly fire in a situation like that? No way even TV-land can pull THAT one off.

Talking about scavenging guns, even when they were rushing back to the vehicles in front of the CDC wouldn't it have been a good idea to at least grab a couple of the discarded weapons lying around out front?

==Vatos==
Ok, tonight I think I've seen a S&W model 10, a Colt Detective Special, and possibly a S&W mosel 28 in the hands of the mexican gangsters and it looks like T-Dog was using a BAR. The bag had some Sigs and Glocks and Daryl had a Remington 870 and I think that Rick is using a Mossberg 590 not a 500. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't edit the page tonight, I just wrote on here. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Daryl took at least one Sig from the bag. T-Dog used a Mossberg later, but I think his scoped rifle was a BAR. The shotty Glenn ended up with, looked the same as Daryl's. Also, Shane drew his pistol at one point, but it was hard to see.-AC
==Daryl's Crossbow==
Daryl Dixon's crossbow is a Horton Scout HD 125: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2817217&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch. In the fourth episode "Vatos", when Daryl points it a T-dog on the roof you can see the faded Horton logo on the front. Scout 125 can be seen above the trigger after the camera angle changes. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

::Picture added and changes made. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Was that an XD? ==

The handgun, that Daryl takes from the bag of guns. At first I thought it was a SIG, but after rewatching it, I think it may have been a Springfield Army XD.
-AC

Nope, definitely a bi-tone Sig of some kind.

Yeah, the XDs don't have all that stuff on the side of the gun and the slide is actually more Glock like than the more rounder Sig slides [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Walkingdeadsig.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rick Grimes ([[Andrew Lincoln]]) inspects a bi-tone Sig Sauer handgun from his bag of guns.]]

- ZeoRanger5 17:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

that looks like a SIG-sauer P226 or P228. simmons 8492

I agree with simmons 8492, i'd say p228 myself.

How did you think that was an XD?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 14:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. When I stuck it in his waistband, it looked like a combination between a Sig, and a Glock. As far as handguns go, I'd say the XD is closest to that description. Course I was rather sleep deprived at the time.-AC

i also think that in episode 5 shane pulls what looks to be a sig when the sister is coming back to life . im not sure because i know shane has a glock but this isnt in the holster , its carried mexican style and is only seen for seconds. can some one verify ?[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Rick also pulls a gun carried similarily in that scene. Ricks looked like a Glock.

but shanes looks more like a sig or something .[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Some ones gotta move that pic into the 228 spot.[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:It's not a P228. The screencap doesn't show it well, but I checked the episode again, and it's possible to see that it has the squared trigger guard of the P226, rather than rounded, as on a P228. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

==Faking recoil==

Its a littlle overdone but nice to see it (a HP in 9mm doesnt kick as much as shown, but its better than most shows, and handling is pretty good or tv.

may be because he hasent realy fired a 9mm in a while he wasnt use to it or because hes used to the revovler

That makes no sense, .357 Magnum (I'm guessing thats what is loaded) has alot more kick, if he can handle a .357 than he could easily handle a 9mm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:02, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

and im sure that a python has more kick than that highpower . and being that he killed a hand full of zombies with that in the first episode it wont matter .-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:Just a FYI, its Hi Power, not High Power.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Since most people don't know the distinction between a Hi-Power and a Colt M1911, and the show is known to have certain..flaws when it comes to reality, they could have just been assuming that it was a .45, and Hollywood logic states that if it's larger than 9mm, it makes your wrist fly up and sends bad guys flying.

Or it was just because they wanted Rick to seem cool with a stainless steel firearm (like his Colt Python, which he points at other survivors so often, it could be a drinking game).

But being seriously, this is the same show where Glocks have external, slide-mounted safeties in the US and headshots can be made off-hand with a sidearm at 50 meters while running.

AUA/

:I haven't been able to watch the series only the first episode (no cable) but... The Python is a heavy revolver and could be loaded with .38 Specials. Also with the Hi-Power being a semi-auto and able to shoot more rapidly. Would have more perceived recoil. Seeing guys on YouTube handle .45s with very little recoil, it's shotguns and full auto rifles where movies get recoil wrong. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==DShK heavy machine gun?==

I believe there was an abandoned DShK heavy machine gun flanked by sandbags when they headed towards the CDC building by the looks of the muzzle. (This was the best episode so far, I think.) - Angel_956

Most likely a mocked up M2 but I definatly saw that distinct muzzle brake.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I added a cap but you cannot really tell one way or another if it is a mock up or not. Either way...it makes no sense for it to be there in the first place!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was thinking. Why would an outdated Soviet Union machine gun even be in the show, but it might be cleared up in the next episode. I clearly remember the guy in the CDC building saying something about some French soilders, I think. If so it might of meant that there was an international response to the zombie outbreak, trying to control it, explaining the DShK. [[User:Angel_956|Angel_956]]

:Now your just over-analyzing, it's in all likeliness what they used because it's what was available to use when they were shooting the scene. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe somebody "requisitioned" (read: looted) it from the National Infantry Museum or Fort Benning; both are in or around Columbus, GA, which isn't exactly close to Atlanta, but it's the closest place I can think of where you might plausibly find a DShK. When you need more HMGs, you grab what's available. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 20:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Weird though, since they obviously had M2s available for filming.-AC

:Not necessarily. Armorers can change during filming and weapons may not be available even though they were previously. Also remember that only the first episode had the M2 so the armorer could have changed since then. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, those M2HBs are still there in episodes 2 ("Guts," when Grimes escapes from the tank) and 4 ("Vatos," when Glenn goes to retrieve the Bag O' Guns) and they pass at least two M2HBs on the way to the CDC's front door after they pass the DShK. They weren't just there for the pilot. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 09:18, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

My thought was militia that made a last stand with the army to protect the people gathering at the CDC (notice the weapon is surrounded by bodies in civilian clothes), the DShK having been purchased by one of the members (legitimately or otherwise) and subsequently put to use following the outbreak. - Wolfblade670

Maybe the Russians dropped in tom VDV to help protect the CDC. -Jakezergling

:I, umm, highly doubt that... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:30, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, Russia would have enough trouble fighting the Walkers on their own turf, considering that Russia is easily 2 times the size of continental United States. Besides that, do the Russians even use the DshK anymore? I do believe it's been phased out by the Kord since the late 90s/early 2000s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:18, 27 February 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's knife ==

In the third episode, when Daryl is told about his brother, he attacks Rick with some sort of hunting or combat knife. He's later seen with it in a sheath on his left thigh, and you get a fairly close (But very brief) look at it when they're walking through the building at the beginning of the forth episode. Anyone have any clue what it is? I mean, from the brief glimpse I got of it in the forth episode, it looked like it was possibly a TOPS Steel Eagle 107C, the same kind of knife that the character Royce had sheathed in Predators, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm, or give an alternative? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

It's actually a Busse Combat Team Gemini with a bead blasted finish and black and tan layered g10. Gerber is now supplying knives to the show as well, as seen in the season 2 premiere when Carl finds a full roll in and abandon vehicle. The list of models is on their FB page. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

: I would agree that Daryl does have a Busse Combat Team Gemini. A clear profile-type photo of Daryl's knife was featured in the "story sync" for the eighth episode of the second season on the AMC website. Here's a link to that image: http://www.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/208-17.jpg --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:24, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== What kind of gun did he give Morales? ==

He said it was a .357, but I have no idea what it was.-AC

/AUA

He held it in his hand for a profile shot; maybe you should try screencapping it at that point and going from there. There should be an ID for it though, unlike Morgan's snubnose.

AUA/

I lack the equipment needed to screencap.-AC

/AUA

Use IrfanView (freeware) or the PrtScn button on your computer (press it on the frame you want to capture, and then paste it into Paint to crop it).

AUA/

I think it's a Smith and Wesson 586 [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

== Rick's second shotgun.==

After Rick gives the 590 (it wasn't a 500, someone should change that) to Guillermo, he uses one with an 18 inch barrel, a blued type finish and wood furniture. I think some people commented on it being a Mossberg, but it has a rounded bolt like a Remington 870. However, it's not an 870 since the trigger guard isn't round enough, the magazine tube is longer than the standard 4 shot tube, and it doesn't have an extension attached, and the wood furniture has a single rib on the side for gripping. After doing some research, my best guess is that it's an earlier H&R Pardner Pump, possibly in some sort of police configuration. I know it's neither a Mossberg or a Remington, though.

It's indeed an H&R Pardner Pump. The humpback receiver is unmistakable. [Ballistics_Expert2]

/AUA

I'd PrtScn/screencap the shotgun in question before making any comparisons. We still haven't definitively IDed Dale's bolt-action, so maybe you should get one of that as well.

AUA/

We still have Merles bolt-action as well.
-AC

This cap from the page will suffice:

[[Image:WD870ep05.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Rick with his Remigton, when he and Shane patrol the woods (Episode 5).]]

And a link to a Pardner Pump configured similarly:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/TRguy/Guns/NEFPardnerPumpYouth8-12-10.jpg

A few things distinguishing the shotgun in the picture as a Pardner Pump as opposed to an 870, 500 series, or whatever:

-Some type of thin rib on the top of the barrel.
-The foregrip has the distinctive groove in it as seen on the Pardner Pump.
-The agnle that the receiver curves at the butt end is a sharper angle rather than a bend type (you can tell by the shadow).
-The magazine tube is longer than a 4 shot, but it's not screwed on like other models, nor does the endcap and barrel link resemble that of other models.

Some other things that you can't notice in the picture, like the flatter trigger guard or a good shot of the angled receiver, are seen in the series very easily, namely in Episode 5 during Rick and Shane's patrol, when this cap takes place, and one instance in Episode 6 where the doctor is drawing blood and the gun is sitting behind Rick as he waits. This good enough? --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 10:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think you're right, it's not a Remington, Mossberg, or a Winchester. It looks like a Pardner, more like the Pardner pump compact, due to the shorter barrell. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 23:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

-Rick's first shotgun was a 500 with the extended tube. It didn't have the bayonet lug, just check some of the promo pics on imbd.com - [[User:MarkXIX|MarkXIX]]

Ah, so it is, I could have sworn I saw the 590s tube cap on it. I can notice a buncha stuff on an H&R, but I get that wrong, lol. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 17:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Rick's shotgun, from the end of Vatos and on, was a Pardner Pump, but I don't think it was a 20 gauge. Sometimes, hunting model guns can have the vent-rib barrel cut down, to where it is a riot shotgun. I see that as being more plausible. --[[User:1897Reloaded|1897Reloaded]] 11:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

==Think its funny==

Rick misses several close range shots (so do long gun toting officers) in the beginning against chase suspects, then later in series hes nailing headshots left and right....

Noticed that too, although zombies don't shoot back. They just charge straight ahead.

/AUA

It's a screenplay-direction thing. The show is already a bit overdramatized in general, so little things like the 'clip' and 'safety' dialogue or the headshot ratio aren't really all that important to the screenwriters, at least not compared with inserting dramatic bits into it.

AUA/

When the police were shooting the chase suspects, their targets were live people. An accurate marksman or not, if you're not used to firing live rounds at live humans your subconscious may not want you to hit that kill shot. Zombies are different.

also he has had weeks of shooting live targets ie the zombies so he as probaly leared to shot them really well --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Unless you're superhuman, you can't learn how to make a shot that is off-hand, behind you, at a 1.5 x 1 ft target at 50 meters, while RUNNING, in a few weeks. Few people would be able to make that shot, period. The gate-zombie shots were just...unfeasible.

AUA/

*Well it is a show about the dead walking around and eating the flesh of the living. I'm willing to overlook the amazing skill that Rick displays with headshots.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:28, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

==Question about Shane's shotgun technique==
Just a question for those who may know, is it considered proper technique to hold the gun that high on the shoulder, with his cheek resting on the receiver? I figuered it was an adjustmant made due to the M4-style stock, as Rick and other survivors wielding unmodified weapons don't do this.

: I noticed that too, I figured it was just the actor's preference (possibly due to inexperience) but I guess it could be because of the M4 stock. I dunno. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

:It's standard practice in the US military. They teach you to ride the stock high so that your sights are level with your eyes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Thats with the M16/M4, not a shotgun.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:the stock on the shotgun is a Knoxx Industries SpecOps NRS Shotgun Stock

::My dad has one on his 870.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

-i noticed that . i dont think that stock has a single thing to do with it . it probably prefrances [[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Considering the US military teaches you do to that with a M4, the stock is pretty much the same as the M4 so I could see why he's doing it. Also I don't get the feeling that any of the actors are really inexperienced, they all seem to be trained well in regards to weapons. Least Rick and Shane do.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:18, 8 March 2012 (CST)

==Series Finale==

I noticed a nickel finished pistol tucked into Daryl's waistband mexican style early on in the episode, looked like a SIG.
I'm thinking that Daryl's pistol was probably the same Hi-Power Rick took off merle in episode 2.

Does any one else think the grenade description is a bit of a spoiler as it is a deus ex machina. I suggest only saying it is used in episode 6 and not how. I know this has absoloutely nothing to do with firearms but i loved the ax decapitation amidst the headshots at the end --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

:The grenade wasn't a deus ex machina, but a textbook example of Chekhov's gun. He found it in the first episode even. It would have been a deus ex machina if they found it there.(I expected him to actually bring it out against the guys in the city in episode 3, myself)--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 08:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, New guy here. When Jenner allows the the others to enter the facility at the start of the episode, he's seen holding an M4, and he mentions that "There're a lot of these lying around. I familiarized myself." And yet, none of the others ever even think of finding a couple of the guns for themselves. Shame, considering a couple of those and a few mags would've come in pretty handy outside (especially if there was a suppressor to be found) Anyone else bugged by this?

They've been sitting outside for like a month. The M4 is a fine, gun, but you need to clean it regularly.-AC

:Only if your in the desert sand, sitting around like that outside would be fine but not how I would store my guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I was definitely bugged by this fact. Supposedly a lot of M4s and 30 round magazines lying around, and Jenner's the only guy who has one. But then again the supply of ammo might've been low, considering everything that'd happened. [[Ballistics_Expert2]]

first off all there are no M4A1`s seen inside all out side wicth iswere he probily got it second they were only out side for a few momints ehter runing away from the bulding or trying to get in before they are over welbed with zombies tird as he said ammo is preety rare as you can see when they are out side there are hunderdes of dead zombies witch had to be killed by something --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== To Do List. ==

1. Shotguns used by deputies in opening shootout.
2. Morgans revolver.
3. Merles rifle.
4. The guns, Rick, and Shane pull after Amy turns.
5. The gun given to Morales.
6. Daryls handgun.
7. Whether Shanes Glock is a 17 or 19.
8. Whether Ricks first shotty was a 500 or a 590.
9. Ricks second shotty.

I miss anything?-AC

==Short Season Huh?==

At least season 2 will be twice as long, whenever they get around to making it.....

At least there will be a seaon two, I thought this was a miniseries at first and was very dissapointed that it was over so soon. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 01:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

It's definately already in production. Normally when a series gets picked up production on the second season gets rolling ASAP. This became a pretty popular show, show I'm guessing AMC got the ball rolling right away when they realized they had demand for the show. Anyone here read the graphic novel series? I want to try and get into it but want to know if it's worth the time and money--[[User:Burgershot621|Burgershot621]] 05:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

They really are worth it. I buy the trade paperbacks, they are like $12.00 a book. There are 13 of them up to now. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Personaaly i prefer the graphic novels. Dont get me wrong i love the series, but the comics are much more grim and dark, in the series everyone seems to be more willing to get along and its more zombie orientated, the comics are much more grim, its about the characters and in the comic no characters are safe, even mainstay ones. The tv series feels slightly more commercialised and main characters have outlived their comic book life already. I do love the tv version, and darly dixion is the best non comic character creation to be added to the series, I just hope Carl gets a gun next series, that said and cant belive i have to wait till october to see series 2.- Captain Snikt [[Special:Contributions/109.157.4.163|109.157.4.163]] 23:58, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:Daryl has proven so popular that he's actually being written into the comic. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:15, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

== Popular Cop Guns ==
An answer above said that the Glock was "a very common cop gun, in both hollywood, and real life." This is true, but I was wondering if their were any other cop guns in hollywood and in real life that are as popular as the Glock.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The Beretta 92 is the only one that comes to mind for me. -SasquatchJim.

:There aren't too many police depts issuing the Beretta 92F anymore, even though Hollywood still shows them being carried by cops. Anyway, Glock holds just under 2/3rds of the U.S. law enforcement market, SIG-Sauer holds about 1/3rd, and a number of other makes (S&W, H&K, Beretta, etc.) are constantly fighting each other for what's left. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

SIG-Sauer P226, S&W M19/66, AR-15, and many more... --[[User:nkingman|nkingman]]

Ah, that's right.
Some older ones include the S&W Model 10, S&W Model 28, Colt Trooper, and a 12 gauge pump shotgun (namely a Remington 870.)
Another new one is the S&W M&P -SasquatchJim

There was once a time when the S&W Model 15/67, the S&W Model 13/65. Colt Official Police, Ruger Six Series revolvers, the S&W Model 19/66 and the Colt Lawman/Trooper Mk III were also very popular Cop revolvers.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:40, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

Glocks, S&W M&Ps, SIGs, HK USPs, S&W 5906 (4506, etc) are known for being "cop guns",
Glocks IIRC are used by 60% of the police force in the US so its kinda hard to compare

== Flash suppressor on M4A1 ==

Did anyone else notice the flash suppressor on the M4A1 held by the soldier that gets grabbed is different than normal?
:I thought it was a nongun.--[[Special:Contributions/129.89.179.105|129.89.179.105]] 01:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)(thePotShot)
::Just for reference,
::[[Image:M4A1nongun.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M4A1 Non Gun]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Yeah, it's a Non Gun M4. Look at the range at which he's shooting at his comrades. Blanks are dangerous if an actor is shooting at other actors who are that close, so they probably had to use the Non Gun instead. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:57, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, the Aimpoint M68 CCO (in this case I believe it is a Comp M2 or ML2) can be used with the foreward lens cover closed. Used in this method, it forms an occuladed eye-sight, which were one of the first types of weapons optics employed. Using an occuladed eye-sight is very similar in principle to the BAC method employed in some Trijicon ACOGs, both eyes are left open and due to the way the brain processes images from the eye, what the left (or right eye sees) downrange has the red dot from the other eye (which is looking down the sight) superimposed on it. This is useful as there are rumors that the red dot (particularly in the Aimpoint family) can in fact be detected from in front of the weapon due to the intensity of the light, espiecially in night battle conditions. So the sceintist might really know what he is doing, but it is just as likely it was a mistake by the prop department.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 22:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== I liked Rick's reaction when he pulled the pin on the grenade in the last episode ==

He was thinkin "ohshitohshitohshitohshit" and then hauled ass outta there haha. I liked that little detail, along with him getting knocked off his feet as he tried to get as far away from it as possible, instead of the clichè "walk slowly towards the camera as a bomb goes off behind you with a bad-ass grimace on your face". This show had a lot of nice little details like that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)- Yeah but its a grenade bro, you have like what 7 seconds so you can't walk away slowly from it..and also the building was about to total..-jake

Yeah, I liked that too. i hate when like the everyday joe can slowly walk away from a huge explosion,[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

I like the way that he pulled the pin and had the "Oh my GOD!" moment when he suddenly realised that he needed to run fast. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:49, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

Lol, my friend was like that fuse is burning wtf is he doing? chilling?

== Season 2 ==

Anyone seen the trailer yet for the second seaons? It's been out for a few weeks now. I jus--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)t thought it was interesting that it hasn't been mentioned here.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

I don't have the equipment for getting screencaps from TV, but the revolver Daryl took from the camper who committed suicide looks like either a Colt Cobra or Detective Special. The structure doesn't look right for being a S&W Model 10 or Model 36/37. And the slender grip profile and lack of an ejector rod housing eliminates the possibility of it being a Taurus.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

I was rewatching the season 2 premier episode and I noticed something that irked me a bit concerning the scene at the tent where Daryl found the Colt revolver. This is a series known for a great deal of firearms safety and consideration. But here we have an example of typical Hollywood gun handling. Nobody checked to see how many live rounds were in it, they just assumed it was still loaded and ready to be used. For all we know Daryl handed Laurie an empty weapon for taking on the trail back to the RV.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

==Gerber Bag of Knives==

Carl ([[Chandler Riggs]]) found this bag in the first episode of the second season which contained six different gerber tool knives and machetes.

[[Image:Gerber-Zombie-Apocolypse-Knives.jpg|thumb|none|500px| So long as you use a knife, there's still a little love left.]]

In the Season 2 props video on the AMC website, they explain the endorsement and show some of the gear. The prop master also gives a look at Rick's character specific items, which includes a [http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000582-Modified-Partially-Serrated/dp/B004DT26ME/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319921541&sr=8-2 DMF Folder]. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:58, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

Some of this bag is anachronistic though, as the knives were not invented until after the zombie apocalypse destroyed humanity, and presumably the Gerber factory. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:21, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

How do you know that though? As far as I can remember there hasn't been a date mentioned for when the zombie apocalypse happened, it could be set in the very near future. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:30, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:What I meant is that some of the knives have been released since the series started airing, and I'm assuming that the first episode wasn't set in the future. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:41, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
::Fair enough. I do think of it like well they haven't really set an actual date on when it occurs so anything "new" that shows up in the show is either there to look cool or it's there for some sort of product placement. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:33, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::Or both. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:35, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::: Touche --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:08, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

== Morgan's Revolver ==

The revolver that Morgan uses is a S&W model 60

:It can't be the Model 60 because of the curved ejector shroud. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:38, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Season 2 spoiler-ish descriptions ==

I feel like a lot of the description "updates" on the guns used (or re-used, as applicable) in Season 2 are giving too much info away. Definitely enough to qualify as spoilers to some people (like me). One shouldn't need to narrate the scene and context in which the gun appears, at least not to the extent some of the descriptions are- especially if it's giving away future happenings.

== M4 ==

I think the caption about the doctor not noticing the covers for the M68 is a little of a moot point. The doctor stated he wasnt familiar with the weapon, and simply picked it up when soldiers started dying or running away. -MissySummers-

== Dave and Tony's guns ==

In the eighth episode of the second season - "Nebraska" - two newcomers walk into the bar where Rick and Glenn found Hershel drinking alone. The strangers introduce themselves to Rick, Glenn, and Hershel as Dave and Tony. I had a difficult time identifying these two guns that Dave and Tony had. Dave's gun looked to me like it might be a SIG-Sauer P226. Tony's gun looked to me like it was some sort of sawn-off double-barrel shotgun - maybe an over/under style double barrel shotgun too. Did anybody get a good look at either one of these guns? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:52, 21 February 2012 (CST)

After watching the episode "Triggerfinger" it looks like hershel picked up Dave's pistol which looked to me like a SIG-SAUER P228 to me. And the big guy had a cutdown pump shotgun that I think was a Remington 870 and Rick was duel weilding it with his Python when they left the bar. The kid on the roof appeared to a have a bolt action rifle but it never showed a clear pic.

: I just watched the "Nebraska" and "Triggerfinger" episodes again back to back. I would have to agree with you now on Dave's gun. It appears that Dave actually did bring a SIG-Sauer P228 into the bar in the "Nebraska" episode. I got a better look at this gun in the "Triggerfinger" episode when Hershel was armed with it. I could tell this gun was a P228 because the trigger guard was curved instead of hooked like the P226 has, plus the barrel and slide on this gun were shorter than what the P226 has. I looked very closely at Tony's shotgun too, but I don't agree with you on this one. There's no way it could have been a Remington 870. I would still say that it is a sawn-off, over/under, double barrel shotgun. (Just my opinion here, but a sawn-off shotgun would be a piss-poor gun for defending yourself against a zombie horde that is coming at you. The shot spread pattern on a sawn-off shotgun would be way too wide to be effective on any zombie's head beyond short range, and it's better to kill multiple zombies from a distance than at point blank range, right?) I also noticed that Glenn had Tony's shotgun later on in the "Triggerfinger" episode. I agree with you about that the kid on the roof though - he sure seemed to have a bolt action rifle with a scope mounted on it. What happened to it is the question now. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 15:59, 22 February 2012 (CST)
I just watched it again and I swore I heard a cocking sound so that could make it a pump action shotgun. You were right its not a pump action i believe its a over/under gun. [[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

: TV shows and movies usually have the cocking sound effects for guns added in for dramatic purposes. (For example, it seems that we often hear the cocking sound effect every time the script calls for one character to point a gun at somebody or something. In real life, guns are normally silent when this happens.) The Walking Dead seems to be just such a TV show. I don't know how to screen capture this yet, but I paused episode 208 at the 43:15 mark. I could clearly see the underside of Tony's gun there, and I did not see things on this gun such as a loading port, or a slide piece, both of which would be consistent with a pump action shotgun. It was all dark on that part of the shotgun instead, which to me seems more consistent with a double barrel, over/under, break action shotgun than with a pump action shotgun. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:55, 23 February 2012 (CST)

: I couldn't get a good look at Tony's shotgun in either "Nebraska" or "Triggerfinger". At first glance it looked like a cut down Winchester 1887 (like in T-2). I was wondering if anyone else happened to think that too? Also it almost looked like it had a synthetic stock on it which made me think it could have been the Chiappa T-Series 1887, but I don't know if those are availible yet, but again I didn't get a good enough look at it.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 20:10, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::It is a sawn off over and under (although it may be purpose made as it appeared to have a front sight present). You get a look at the gun when the guy gets up to piss, and after he is shot you see a front view of the gun showing that it is two open barrels rather than a barrel with a magazine tube underneath. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::: You're right. After rewatching the episode online and pausing just after he gets shot I could see the two barrels and also could see there is no lever either.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 22:57, 23 February 2012 (CST)

Tony's shotgun looks VERY much like the MOSSBERG HS12 after another look at episode 9. When Rick searches Tony's pocket and picks up two (probably 12-ga) shotgun rounds, you can clearly see the Top/Locking Lever for opening/locking the breech contrasted against the background. In the shot just before that you can see a Picatinny or Weaver rail on top of the receiver. This clearly says "HS12" to me...and though it pretty clearly does not have a rail on the bottom of the under barrel, not all HS12s have the under-barrel rail, I think. --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]] 27 Feb 2012
:Had to Google Mossberg HS12, and I must admit I giggled a little bit at the concept of a "tactical" over/under. I watched the episodes in question the other day, and from memory at least I'd have to agree with you. It'd be nice if someone could post a picture, though.... [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 18:05, 27 February 2012 (CST)
::I will try to get an appropriate screencap uploaded; ditto for the Sig P228/229 to help resolve that one. PS "tactical" double-barrels have made ground in the last couple years or so- check out Stoeger's "tactical" SxS...just remember to bring your barf bag- they're charging the same prices for one as you'd see for a good 870 or Mossy pump. Outrageous! In any case, stupid people waste their money on them- but I digress. Tony's apparent choice of shotgun bespeaks his desperation and/or seriously limited tactical reasoning ability- which I guess we already could've figured out around the time his body hit the floor. =P --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]]

: Does the Mossberg HS12 come with sling swivel studs? I noticed that Tony was carrying his shotgun by a sling that was looped over his shoulder. Since the buttstock of this shotgun had been sawn off, there was no way to just let it hang there - he had to keep holding onto the sling with his hand instead. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 09:00, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== What caused it? ==
Does the comic ever reveal what the cause of the outbreak was? I'm not asking for spoilers as to what the cause ''was'', I'm just asking if it's ever revealed, like a "yeah, they find out what it was" or "no, they build a rocket ship and fly to Mars to restart human civilization", or something like that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:59, 27 February 2012 (CST)
:I don't think any reason has actually been given, and Robert Kirkman (writer of the comic) has stated that he doesn't plan to ever give a definitive cause. In the comic characters have speculated that it is caused by a virus that everyone in the world is infected with that causes them to reanimate after death. Because I've read the comic I already knew this so can't remember if it is made clear in the series, but it is the kind of zombie apocalypse where everyone who dies turns into a zombie, even if they die from non zombie causes (zombie bites cause infections that are 100% lethal). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 27 February 2012 (CST)

For Example a certain Main Character is shot dead at the end of the first book (in the comic they never went to the CDC, instead they just got the guns and left, but before they left the character is killed) and later in the series (maybe a book or two later, Rick returns to the place where they buried said person, and he was a zombie even though he had died by a bullet and not bite/scratch --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 09:34, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== Unidentified pistol ==

In the most recent episode, S02E11, Carl takes a pistol out of Daryl's bike. Presumably it is the same pistol Daryl used in episode S01E4. There were some pretty clear shots of the pistol when Carl is holding it, looked like a Browning, but I could be completely wrong. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 23:51, 5 March 2012 (CST)
:It was a [[Browning BDA]], not sure if this is the same gun as in S01E04 as it looks like that has a larger beavertail on the back of the grip, but is hard to tell from the shots available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:56, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Shotgun stock? ==
What type of stock is on Shane's shotgun?
--[[User:Zombie Killer 1995|Zombie Killer 1995]] 09:24, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:It says on the main article, a KNOXX SpecOps NRS stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:40, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's pistol ==

I think Daryl's unidentified pistol might be a CZ-75 series, the frame/grips seem to match it as does the general size.
:Looked more like a Browning Hi-Power to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:18, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I concur with Cool-breeze. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:41, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Looked more like a Browning BDM to me.

Hey, it does not really matter at this point as the stupid kid loses in the leafs and then books it..
::He ''didn't'' lose it in the bushes. But even if he had, it still matters what it is, considering the purpose of this website. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:22, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

That actually seemed to best the best look at the handgun we see and it appeared to be a Browning Hi-Power to me as well.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:15, 8 March 2012 (CST)

:People are talking about two different guns here. The easily identifiable one is the one that Carl takes out of Daryl's saddle bag in the most recent episode, which is definitely a [[Browning BDA]]. There is also the pistol that only the grip is seen sticking out of his waist band in S01E04, which I think is a different pistol. One of the only features that you can make out on this pistol is that fact that it has a prominent beavertail/grip spur at the back which is does not match the BDA or BDM. Hammer is wrong for the Hi-Power, my best guess would be a CZ-75 from the relationship between the hammer and the grip spur but it is not possible to tell from this pic. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:57, 9 March 2012 (CST)

== GUN SENSE ==

Their for sure would tons of M4'S and possibly m16a4's lying around in the streets of Atlanta with moer Berettas. Why does no one go for one and why do they not ask jenner for some. Would an assault rifle not be good to kill hordes of undead? Also why did rick not get on the .50 on the tank and take out some before. Even when I see police cars don't they raid them. The only time I have seen anyone do that is when Shane and Otis use the flares from the cruiser to distract the walkers..And yes I know it is a scripted show.
------
Don't forget that the show starts a while after the zombies take over so any M4s,M16s, etc would have already been scooped up from the Atlanta streets, at least the ones people could get before the city was overrun. And they didn't ask Jenner for any because an assault rifle is actually quite cumbersome and the ammo could weigh them down even more then they already are. Also it would be pretty hard to find any ammunition for M4s/M16s as that doesn't seem to be a commonly used weapon in this show beyond the military. They don't search cop cars because as I stated, the show starts a while after the initial overrunning of cities so if people had any brains, they would have raided cop cars a long time ago. As for the Beretta statement, it seems like that is more of a military firearm as well and not a police weapon, plus they can't search every single corpse they find in the city. As to the .50 cal on the tank, notice how fast the zombies crawled on top of the tank? Rick would never have lasted, plus I don't believe there was any .50 ammo in the tank, nor in the gun. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:14, 8 March 2012 (CST)

- -

Sorry I'm new at posting on here. Good point I forgot it starts 2 week after the outbreak. But I was thinking if Otis and Shane both had automatics it may have ended differently. Also we do Rick's beretta again with Shane and Andrea in the housing developments she has it no and perfers it to her ladysmith. And as to the .50cal their was one zombie when he came out to escape he shoveled it in the face. The .50 just is a bad idea in my opinion caue its one loud mother. Also I don't understand why people carry bolt actions around, look what happend to Dale. Imagine how smooth the show would run if everyone had silenced weapons. One more thing, is anyone else hoping for the variety of guns to switch up? We know that the kid's camp has 30 men+(jude,jury,executioner)so assuming Rick's group comes up on top cause the shows been renewed for season 3. Will they get some real artiliery? (User:n Gunfan1996)

:If I remember in the first episode, Rick did bump into a tank and I coulda sworn I saw ammo in that 50 cal, but it is a bit heavy for one to carry. An Assault Rifle plus ammo is not heavy at all. A shotgun with ammo is actually more heavy and cumbersome to carry and limited range 12:46, 9 March 2012 (CST)

:There was no ammo in the tank gun.

[[Image:WalkingDead-BrowningM2HB 02.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A closeup of the mounting; note that the mounting is designed for the L7 GPMG, an FN MAG derivative, and the fake M2 simply sits on top of it. Compare to the real M2 in the foreground of the shot above.]]

:Besides, Rick was on horseback. What's he going to do, mount the .50 on the head of his horse? And it's also worth noting that he didn't have any weapons that used that ammo. A belt of .50 would be dead weight (no pun intended). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:37, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

Still dunno why Rick uses a Python though, those .357 rounds are LOUD.
Personally, I hoped someone had scooped the Doc's M4 up on the way out of the CDC, oh well....
--[[User:Geckcgt|Geckcgt]] 01:14, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

== WOW!!!!!!! AWESOME ENDING (SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!) ==

I couln' resist saying how awesome i thought S02: E12 was. That was the way to kill off Shane. Plus with the cool remix of the theme song playing as you see an army of walkers walk out onto the field. Just saying, I think Hershel or Maggie will die in the season finale. For those who missed it, here's a link: http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/talked-about-scene-episode-212-the-walking-dead-shanes-last-stand --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 14:51, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

Yep pretty good. I knew that eventually Shane was going. If I remember the comic book correctly it was Carl who killed Shane when he was going to kill rick and then Rick finished him off when he came back as a walker. So in the television show they reversed that. Liked the ending. I wonder if next season they will deal with the Governor and the Prison? --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:30, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:If you search for news of the show, te actor has already been cast, looking forward to the next season.--[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 17:14, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:The Governor has indeed been cast and no it is not Merle. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:55, 12 March 2012 (CDT) [[http://screenrant.com/david-morrissey-governor-the-walking-dead-yman-156371/]]

Nothing you guys said makes any sense because i don't read comics. Don't tell me though. I'm going to read the comics after the series finally ends. I know a friend with the complete collection who sai he is going to sell it along with DVD copies when they all come out. I WANT THAT!!!!! Check on ebay after the series comes to an end.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 18:56, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

All I'm wondering is why did they make it so all you have to do is die to become a zombie instead of being bitten/scratched? Do they explain this as well? [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 10:00, 13 March 2012

:Almost every zombie story I've ever read, movie I've ever seen, or game I've ever played has it the same way as The Walking Dead TV series and comic book has had it - When a person dies for any reason, that same person later becomes a zombie, unless their brain has been damaged or destroyed first. So far, no explanation has been given as to exactly how this happens. My guess would be that it's all due to an airborne virus. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:56, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

Can anyone identify the knife Rick used to finally put Shane down? Was it one of the Gerbers seen frequently throughout this season, or something else? I couldn't get a close enough look.--[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:35, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:I paused S02/Ep12 at the 39:09 mark. That was where I could get the best look at this knife. As best I can tell, Rick used a Gerber DMF folder on Shane. I think Rick has had that same knife all throughout Season 2. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 13:19, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

I also wanted to know about a knife from episode 10 of season 2 (18 Miles Out). The knife in question is the one that Rick leaves for Randall to use. I don't know if it can be seen any better in any other episode but I know that Randall does eventually use it and I think I remember a few semi-close up shots of it.

:Yes, there are a few close-up shots of the knife Randall uses in Episode 10 of Season 2. It appears to be a sheath knife without any serrations on the blade, finger grooves on the grip, and a clip point. I checked the official Gerber website, but I was unable to see any knife pictured there which resembled this one. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 19:20, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

On the actual subject of the firearms used in the finale, I think Lori uses the Charter Arms Pug that Carl had earlier in the season. Daryl used a revolver I couldn't ID.... Looked like a .38 of some kind with a 4 or 5 inch barrel, but I'm not sure. [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 22:02, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

To add to that, Glenn was seen using Shane's Mossberg with the M4-style stock in the finale. (Shane no longer needed it.)
Hershel was also seen using, what I believe is the Remington 870 Wingmaster used by Dayrl in "Vatos"

The revolver Daryl used, if it was Dale's revolver i think it is a colt of some kind, although I cannot get a good look, in one of the earlier episodes you can see the grip under Dale's shirt, and it looks like there is a Colt medallion near the top, not sure though.--[[User:Awaler32|Awaler32]] 09:42, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

== Logo on Carl's shirt ==
This is way off topic for IMFDB, but the logo on Carl's shirt in the episode "Better Angels", a black bear paw in front of a red atom, I know I've seen it elsewhere but I can't place it. At first I thought it was the old Blackwater logo, but the BW logo is a black bear paw in a red scope crosshair. Does anyone recognize it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:13, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

:The logo on Carl's shirt is for "Science Dog" - another comic book by the creator of TWD, Robert Kirkman. The comic book version of Carl has this same exact logo on his shirt too. Adding this level of detail to Carl's wardrobe in the TV series was a nice touch, I would say. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 07:01, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

== The guns of the survivors ==
Way back in episode one of the series we see Rick load up all of the available weapons from the precinct's armory for his journey to Atlanta. And while we've had about 18 episodes to ask the question we really haven't yet. If they weapons came from the police armory why do a good portion of the long guns appear to be hunting firearms? The Browning BAR, the Remington 700, the Remington 870 and such look out of place in the right context.

- Well, I think that the older wooden-furniture Remington 870 and the Remington 700 can be explained, as it is a small, rural County Sheriff's Office in Georgia. Before the widespread distribution of tactical sniper rifles, M16's and M4's across America's police departments, police were using other weapons, such as the Remington 700 and the Winchester Model 70 for that purpose. Also, we see Rick gathering up the weapons AFTER the outbreak. The Sheriff's officers could have grabbed the new firearms and left the older ones, which would still be in the armory for storage and reserve purposes. If the story was broadened, it would probably show the other Sheriff's deputy's taking tactical rifles and carbines to employ them in the field. [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]]

:One thing that always struck me as "unrealistic" about TWD has been the types and and amounts of guns depicted in seasons 1 and 2, along with the feelings of some of the characters toward guns. The setting for this show all along has been in Georgia, which in real life is a "red" pro-gun southern state with a longtime history of private gun ownership among a large percentage of the population. So far on TWD however, the way in which guns have been depicted seems somewhat more as if the show's setting has been in a "blue" anti-gun northeastern state like New Jersey!

:In real-life Georgia, I have no doubt that there are many civilians who own at least one semi-automatic rifle chambered for a military cartridge and a few high-capacity magazines for it, and that number probably increased by even more after Obama got elected in 2008. Bearing this in mind, I can't see why there would not have been at least a few people in that survivor's camp outside Atlanta during season 1 armed with something more than just hunting firearms and handguns. The two "redneck" characters in season 1 - Merle and Daryl - they would have both had tactical-type rifles and hidden caches of ammunition for them if it had been up to me. Rednecks in real life have been stockpiling ammunition ever since Obama got elected. Plus, seasons 1 and 2 have had two former cops in the group - Rick and Shane - but neither one of them have ever seen the need to acquire better firepower. There were M4's and other weapons scattered all around the outside of the CDC in season 1, but nobody thought to pick any of them up. If I had been Rick, I would have been constantly telling everybody else in the group all throughout seasons 1 and 2 to keep gathering up guns and ammunition whenever possible. That one black bag Rick loaded up at the police station's armory in the first episode of season 1 could not possibly have held enough ammunition to last all the way to the end of season 2.

:Then there were the anti-gun sentiments among some members in the group - Lori in season 1 and 2, and Hershel in season 2. Lori's objections to her son Carl learning how to shoot struck me as being a bit odd. Lori is supposed to be a housewife from a small town in the South who is married to a cop, not a soccer mom with a career from a liberal anti-gun upbringing. Being that Carl is the son of a southern small town cop, I think it would have been more realistic if he had already learned a few things about shooting from his dad Rick long before the outbreak. Hershel's attitude towards guns struck me as being most odd. Hershel is supposed to be a cattle rancher from rural Georgia, so when he said that he did want his property to become an "armed camp" from the group carrying guns around, I was shaking my head by then. Cattle ranchers in real life often have to keep a gun handy to kill coyotes and other pests. I doubt that coyotes would stay away from a farm or ranch with livestock on it after a zombie apocalypse starts. I would have to say that Hershel seemed to redeem himself later in season 2 when he said that he knew how to shoot, although he did not like to. In the season 2 finale however, Hershel seemed to be very much into showing off his shooting skills. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:43, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::I just want to say a couple of things about this rant. First, you are being very stereotypical about the South, thinking that everyone is a gun-toting redneck. I can speak from experience because I am from the most anti-gun state in the country, Massachusetts, I think I can guarantee that there are at least a few people living in the South who don't like firearms. Like I said, I am from Massachusetts, but I like guns, unlike most of the state and most of the Northeast for that matter, except New Hampshire of course. Also, the show takes place a few weeks after the zombie outbreak, most of the people with the military caliber firearms have probably long since left and moved to places they would think was safer. About Rick teaching Carl to shoot guns, he is a cop, so maybe he has seen people get badly hurt by guns, so he didn't want anything to happen to Carl. Hershel knows how to shoot pretty well. I am guessing by his hate for guns, he probably faced some kind of horrible incident in the past that resulted from him using a gun. Again, this is just speculation. In the season 2 finale, Hershel showed his shooting skills because by this time, his outlook on the undead had completely changed. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:01, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::We love our guns up here in New Hampshire! Rick teaching Carl about guns is a good thing and something that is needed. He'll be needing to use that gun more considering how the world has become with the Zombies. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:57, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::::Oh no, I completely agree with teaching Carl to use guns after the zombie outbreak, but I mean before the outbreak maybe Rick didn't have any motivation to teach his son to use guns, that's all. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:36, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::SmithandWesson36, have you been to the South much? I have. I have been to most of the southern states myself, and not just to the large cities and tourist spots, either. I also live in a somewhat rural part of Pennsylvania - it's had some population growth over the last 15 years. Anyway, the point I was trying to make above is that these days, in the "red states" of the South and other rural areas, there are more tactical type rifles in the hands of "plain folks" civilians than ever before. It's more than some people may even realize or want to admit, and the buyers are not necessarily ones who fit the "redneck" mold. Case in point: Not long after Obama was elected in 2008, the biggest gun shop in my area was packed every time I went in to browse. The gun shop's employees were often telling me back then that they could not keep up with the demand for semi-auto rifles chambered in .223 Remington. I made some small talk there once with a single mom, who seemed articulate enough, not a redneck type, etc. She was with her teenage son - they were there to buy her first gun. She bought a Yugo SKS rifle. (I think she wanted to buy an AR type rifle at first, but the SKS was much cheaper.) Also in 2008, I went to several parts of North Carolina at different times that year. I noticed that even the small pawn shops in the suburban "Research Triangle" area of NC had at least one or two AK type rifles. Plus, every time I have been to either of the two shooting ranges that I regularly go to, there has always been at least one person there shooting his or her own AR type rifle. Based upon my own personal experiences such as these, this is part of the reason why wrote what I did above. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 01:11, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Originally this started out as a discussion about why a police precinct would have hunting firearms in the armory. I don't really know how we got into the portrayal of red state/blue state issues in the show and about who personally owns what and why as opposed to something else.

As to the anti-gun bias on the show, I believe that it's to some degree understandable when considering everything. Rick and Shane are police officers, their training dictates that firearms not in the hands of fellow officers are a threat to their safety. Even if the dead have started walking that training is still with them and they're going to be relying on what they know. Hershel's stance is understandable because he sees the Walkers as sick people in need of help, not open slaughter like what was possibly being shown on the news reports. He understands that the survivors don't see things his way and would rather shoot a Walker rather than help it and he wants to prevent that...at least until after Shane opens his eyes to the truth. Lori is a mother and worries about the safety of her son, possibly because so many kids get shot and killed each year and was afraid of contributing to that. It's also possible she's opposed to the idea of Carl learning to shoot because it doesn't jive with her hopes of the world returning to what is used to be when there was order and safety. It's possible she views the idea of her child growing up cold and hard is just another nail in the coffin of the world having any sort of order to it again and she doesn't want to be swinging that hammer. --[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

:Thank you, Ballistics_Expert, that's exactly what I was trying to say. I wasn't arguing anything about red state/blue state, I'm simply stating that not everyone single person in the South loves guns and some are opposed to them. I didn't mean anything political by that, I just meant that anywhere you go, there will be people who disagree with the common concensus of the area. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:37, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

...and back to the subject...reason would lead one to believe the other cops already took the duty guns at the begining and all that was left was confiscated guns left in the evidence locker or something.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 14:44, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:Plausible, considering Shane's M4-stocked Mossy sort of stands out from the rest of the group's guns. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:29, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

::I don't know about anyone else here, but my experience with firearms and viewing preferences with firearms-related TV shows is much more based in real life than in make-believe. I shoot my semi-auto tactical rifles and 1911 pistols on a regular basis and I know many other people who do likewise. I have been to gun shops, gun shows, and gun ranges all over this country. TWD is the only fictional TV show that I am into these days - all the other ones I watch are the "reality" shows on History Channel, Discovery, NatGeo, etc. ("Sons of Guns"/"Doomsday Preppers"/"American Guns"/"Top Shot" - just to name a few.) If you watch shows like these, have been to the South as often as I have been, have been around many gunners like I have, and have seen what I have seen, you probably also would have been a bit disappointed to see how nobody in season 1 of the TWD already had at least one modern semi-auto tactical carbine, or even an older military surplus rifle such the M1 Garand or the SKS. I have already tried to point out how it is actually quite common in real life for civilians in "red" states like Georgia to own semi-auto rifles such as these, and it's not just the hardcore "redneck" types who own them now - it's more like people from all walks of life instead. As a matter of fact, due to an overwhelming demand from the civilian market, Sturm Ruger, America's largest gun maker, actually had to halt production temporarily just this week. Bearing all of this in mind, this is why I say that it should not have even mattered if Rick and Shane's hometown police station's armory had already been looted of all the tactical carbines. As for some people in the South being anti-gun/non-gun-owners, sure, they exist, but they are nowhere as nearly numerous as the anti-gunners/non-gun-owners are in a "blue" state up North like New Jersey, and these are exactly the types of people who are mostly likely going to die first and die the most in a widespread zombie outbreak, simply because they will be totally unarmed before an outbreak begins. The percentage of lawful gun owners in most of the "red" states is 50% or greater. In most of the "blue" states, the percentage of lawful gun owners is as low as 10%.

::Now, one thing that did strike me as "realistic" about the depiction of "blue" states in TWD were the characters of Dave and Tony in the "Nebraska" episode. Both of them seemed to me as being very much "blue" state guys - it was as if they were two lost cast members of the "Jersey Shore" show or something. (Could you imagine having to rely on people like them during a zombie outbreak? Would you want "Snooki" or "the situation" in your survivor group?) What I mean by this is that Dave and Tony both acted like cocky jerks with chips on their shoulders. Dave actually did mention something about meeting Tony along Route 95 outside of Philadelphia, which is also rather close to the Jersey Shore for those of you who did not know this. Much like a great many of the "blue" state folks, neither Dave nor Tony were likely gun owners, or had had any firearms training prior to the zombie outbreak. Dave actually mentioned that he got his SIG pistol off a dead cop. For all we know, Dave was the one who killed that cop, in cold blood, no less. Tony had a sawn-off Mossberg HS12 - he was probably the one who cut the stock on it down, too. If that is what happened, then it just goes to show how clueless Tony was about guns in general. Just about everything Dave and Tony said and did in the "Nebraska" episode was ignorant, rude, and rubbed me the wrong way. How Rick handled Dave and Tony was one of the best decisions he made during all of season 2 as far as I am concerned. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 20:41, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Okay, I'm sorry, but I am still confused about why you keep bringing up "blue states" and "red states," all I am trying to say is that maybe all the modern, military caliber weapon wielding people left with their weapons to find better shelters out of a small town with no protection. I don't get what you mean by having people from the Jersey Shore as survivors in your group, I have a friend with relatives from the Jersey Shore who are not orange-skinned Italians. You also say that Dave and Tony are ignorant and rude because they come from a "blue" state? I'm sorry, but you are rudely stereotyping people, which has nothing to do with what this discussion is about. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:26, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Anyway, getting back to the original topic,there is an Android Walking Dead game made by AMC and explains the first events of the outbreak right after Rick got shot, all the way up to Shane heading to the hospital to save Rick. According to the game, there were only three officers at the station when the first zombies attacked, Shane, Leon, and someone named Don. Judging by the fact that there are times when only three officers are at the station, there are probably not too many officers in this small town. I think that the police force of this town might just have been too small for it to have the budget to buy tactical rifles and they didn't really have the need for more firepower than hunting firearms. How much crime can a tiny town have, right? This is obviously just speculation, but it is my opinion. Although the real reason for their weapons could just be that a zombie show would be boring if the survivors were untouchable because they had military-grade firepower and tons and tons of ammo. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:06, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Police Armory ==

Hello everybody. Pretty spirited discussion going on above. Okay first of all (don't know how applicable this is, but here goes) I'm a police officer. October 12, 2012 will make twelve years for me. I'm also in Idaho which is in the Northwest, but very much a Red State. My department has 63 sworn officers (full-time) and eight reserve officers. I think. Our city is closing in on 50,000 residents.

Our swat team is called TRT (Tactical Response Team). We have two snipers. Both are equipped with Remington 700 rifles in .308. The rifles have 18" heavy barrels, synthetic sticks, scopes, bipods ect. All the gee-whiz tactical stuff. The other TRT members are equipped with Colt AR-15 carbines (16" barrel) and all the various accoutrements that have come to be assocaited with the AR-15 platform in the past decade. TRT officers are issued their rifles by the department.

Other offcers who wish to carry an AR-15 have to purchase the rifle out of their own pocket and attend a week long class. They have to qualify with the rifle at the end of the week if they hope to carry the rifle. The department supplies forty rounds for the rifle.

If you don't want to purchase a rifle you can carry a Remington 870 Police shotgun (supplied by the department) in 12 gauge, but it isn't mandatory.

We are issued either a [[Glock 21]] (45acp) or a [[Glock 19]] (9mm) if the 21 is too large and so on. I carry the [[Glock 19]] and I am also authorized to carry the [[Glock 26]] and the [[Smith & Wesson Model 36 / 38#Smith & Wesson Model 38/49|Smith & Wesson Model 49 Bodyguard]] as my backups and off duty pieces.

Only a couple years before I joined my department the TRT officers were carrying the [[Ruger Mini-14]] with the wooden stock and the [[Remington 870]] shotgun - also with the wooden stock. There was just one sniper and he carried the [[Savage 10/110 Series Rifles|Savage 110]] in .243 also outfitted with a wooden stock.

Officers were allowed to carry whatever type of semi-auto handgun they wanted as long as it was in 9mm, 40S&W or 45 acp. We didn't go to issuing Glocks until 2006.

So as you see it only been over the past fifteen years (more or less) that my department has gotten "modern". I can guarantee that there are many smaller departments out there (in the U.S.) that are still playing catch-up. So the police gun vault that we see in the first episode isn't that difficult to believe in. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:41, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

==Herschel's Shotgun==
is it just me or did herschel's shotgun have like unlimited ammo, cause he was just laying those shells into the zombies like a boss

:Yeah, I was thinking that too, when I watched the episode. I think he reloaded maybe once, and was able to get off upwards of 20 shells out of that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:08, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

::Yep. Evidently I wasn't around when the local Cabelas was selling the special Remington 870 "Hollywood" configuration. Darn it. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:16, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Herschel's SIG ==

Is it just me or does it look a tad too short to be a P226? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 00:11, 29 March 2012 (CDT)
:It also has a rounded trigger guard which makes it a P228/ --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:46, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

==Mossberg HS12==
Uh, are there ANY other screencaps of this gun? The one we have does NOT prove that it is a Mossberg HS12 on its' own. I'm sure that there are other screenshots available (I don't work on this page so I count on others to do it). But right now it is a vague and nondistinct image and thus a new gun page for the Mossberg HS12 was created just for this one entry. We need to verify that this gun ID is correct. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:55, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Season 3 Mystery suppressed Gun ==

Just found this image online. It's apparently a season 3 sneak peek snapshot. What is Rick holding? Almost looks like a two tone glock with a stielhandgranate taped to it, stick pointing towards us.... but its obviously not=P
http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/4/46/Rick.JPG
:Definitely looks like a glock. The can looks like a big Mag-lite to me. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] 21:33, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

::I'm making an assumption, but it's safe to say it's the same Glock 17 he used in the season 2 finale. Seems like he will be using this pistol along with his Colt Python a lot next season. The suppressor was a pleasant surprise. Given the situation in the show, it's probably just a crude, homemade suppressor made with whatever materials he could scrounge.

I think it might be one of the Russian PBS suppressors, I have to agree with ^ it is good to see a suppressor for once when facing zombies.[[User:Recon42|Recon42]]

The suppressor looks like the one that you see on a mac-10 in desperado image and the silencer in that image looks similar.[[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

For sure it's a Glock, however I was thinking it was a crude homemade suppressor, [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 19:28, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

Remember Rick has T Dog's glock(shane hid his then took t dog's and rick took it when he killed shane) and the suppressor does look like a mac 10 suppressor bt it is likely homemade. --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 08:50, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

I think it is a home-made suppressor made from a [http://www.maglite.com/D_Cell_LED.asp Maglite 2 D-cell torch] (or maybe the 3 cell is hard to tell from that shot). The tube with a hole drilled in the base cap alternating between fabric packing and empty chambers would probably kind of work as a suppressor, hard bit would be somehow attaching the lamp end to the muzzle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:59, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

On the talking dead, the producers state it is a flashlight as a makeshift suppressor --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 11:11, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== First look at David Morrissey ==

First picture of David Morrissey as the Governor is up, he'll be the chief antagonist for some time to come on the show. One of his men in the background is holding something in his hand over his shoulder...can anyone make it out?

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=91132

Too blurry, but my first thought was some form of speargun:
http://i.pgcdn.com/pi/1/87/67/18767193_260.jpg
Then again, I just got back from Cancun so I got fishing on the mind =P
--[[User:Geckcgt|Geckcgt]] 01:02, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

The Governor appears to carry a silver/nickel semi-automatic, possibly a 1911 variant, with black grips in a cross draw holster. Looking forward to more detailed screencaps. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 12:12, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== Season 3 ==

Season 3 trailer is up, lots of footage to comb through! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbcXvotzU2k

Im willing to screencap it but its to low quality for me. Maybe someone else can [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 09:09, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

Merle is back. Hopefully this season will have a bit more zip than Season 2. With the exception of the last couple episodes S2 was a little on the slow side. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 09:14, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

In the trailer I can see a helicopter from the UH-1 series along with an MG that I could not ID due to the low quality also the prison had some firearms available inside, Rick used a used a silenced handgun that may be a Glock. Also what kind of firearms would be availible to prison guards anyways? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I uploaded some caps and put them on the page. [[User:theman838|theman838]]

The handgun used by Rick is some kind of Glock, yeah (there was a large poster of Rick holding it in the background on The Talking Dead last week), but they said the "silencer", prop-wise, is actually a flashlight. lol [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:17, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

Merle's bayonet is a WWII M1 Bayonet my grandfather gave me his when he past.

Should we put the armorer showing an m4a1 and at4 on talking dead on the page for behind the scenes ?

== Unknown weapons ==

Please, I know that this is a discussion about T.W.D tv series but can someone add the gas grenade of Hell Of The Living Dead film? I request this because this is a zombie film/tv discussion!

:No, this is a discussion about TWD, not a general zombie genre discussion. If you have anything to say about ''[[Hell of the Living Dead]]'', you might try putting it on the talk page for that film. Also, there's no need to double post. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:37, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

== Page to crowded for another season ==

I think we should create a new page for season 3 when in comes out for new shots of the guns do to the fact this page already has 2 seasons on it and a third would make it too crowded.--[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] 16:24, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:Too long you say? [[The Unit]] and [[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3]] didn't seem too bad, i think its more about cleaning it up rather than how many articles, such as limiting 3-4 photos per Firearm (two screens and one of the Firearm) rather than the random stack at the moment (The Python currently has 10 photos). [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 15:55, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

::"Modern Warfare 3" is one game so it can't really be split up into anything, and "The Unit" is one of the early pages on here that was finished before splitting into seasons become a thing. Ideally it would be split, but it is a big job requiring someone to pretty much re-watch the whole thing to verify what guns are in what seasons and to get more caps. Personally I wouldn't split this yet, would wait and see how many different guns are in season 3. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:31, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:::Maybe i shouldn't delete all the seasons of the unit just yet off my HDD, haha. is there anything other than [[Burn Notice]] that's been split? (i haven't been back on here in a few months.) [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 14:11, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
::::[[Chuck]], [[Miami Vice]], [[CSI]], [[Law & Order]], [[24]], [[Hawaii Five-O]], [[Falling Skies]], and [[Justified]]. Just to name a few. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:00, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:::::I was initially against splitting pages up but I think it's of benefit now because you can have screengrabs from each season for the respective firearms that show up in every season which proves that they're still using the same gun and haven't started using a different one. So I say that it's probably for the best that it is split. From the looks of it there's going to be a shed load of new firearms that will be added this season too. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] ([[User talk:Cool-breeze|talk]]) 18:57, 26 September 2012 (EDT)

== Improvised Supressors? ==
Having a discussion (Also known as a argument :P) with a friend over what was used for the suppressors on Rick and Carl's hand guns, I believe Rick's was a Glock of some type with what looked to me was a Maglight; Carl using a Beretta 92 (F) with what looked like a cut and modified steel baseball bat, can any one verify this? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 22:09, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:The Walking Dead (TV Series)

2012-10-16T01:59:19Z

Scarecrow: /* What kind of tank was that? */

Talk:The Walking Dead (TV Series)

2012-09-26T18:11:50Z

Scarecrow: /* Page to crowded for another season */

==OTHER==
That's Norman Reedus with the crossbow. He plays Daryl Dixon, who was not in the actual comic that I can recall. I like that though, he's a cool actor. I'm also a little bummed that they didn't use the guns drawn in the comics. Rick uses a HK mk.23. For those of you who might think that it's impossible to tell that from the comic the artist wrote HK MK.23 on the barrel. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I read some where that the Walker are attracted to loud noises. that might be why he is carrying a crossbow

It is smart to use a crossbow; because it saves on bullets and in most all undead literature and movies the undead always react and swarm when they hear a gunshot. Very good show, have never read the comic but look forward to.-GoshMr.Peabody

It's pretty amazing. I recommend buying the trade paperbacks. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Not only does a crossbow save on ammo and is silent, crossbow bolts can be retrieved and reused repeatedly before they bend, dull, break, or otherwise can't be used any longer. In effect, Daryl has essentially a near-infinite source of ammunition. As for Rick, I think the Python suits him better. It has personality, the Mark 23... not so much. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:43, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==Whoa==
I loved the comic, when the hell did it get a tv show?

The idea was revealed a while ago. It comes out on Halloween. -SasquatchJim

honestly , its like two hours till the show ,i cant wait. simmons 8492

Well it kept my interest. I'll watch it again next week to see if it can maintain the momentum.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

honestly it took some time to realy get things going , but now hes in a populated zone with other survivers . and if i was him id start that tank up! simmons 8492

I coulda sworn the 50 on that tank was still loaded with ammo and in the next scene, it had no ammo [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Just watched it again. The .50 on the tank doesn't appear to be loaded, but there's another one in a sandbag fort that is, in the foreground as he goes by. -IGemini 04:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

iv watched it from the start and i have to say its great simmons 8492

== Crappy dialogue ==

In the trailer, one of the cops told the other to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off. First off, the man he was talking to, had a Glock, so no safety. And since he's a trained cop, ready to open fire on a suspect that's hostile, why wouldn't he have a round in the chamber and his gun ready to go? That line just threw me off [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, just watched it. Its brilliant, easily as good as the comic. The 'crappy dialogue above does jar a little tho. Hes telling him to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off as it is implied the officer in question is a bit useless, however after doing a brass check the officer in question then presses down on the slide release (even tho the slide is forward) as if to pretend it is the saftey catch. Morgan has a 5 shot snub revolver (which someone else will have to identify as im not too good with em). Rick pull a 92fs (standing in for an m9) from a dead soldiers shoulder holster at the end of the episode, and i'm fairly sure the SIG is a tutone P228 or 229 not a P239 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe Basset is so damn useless that he hasn't even figured out that Glocks don't come with manual safeties... --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:28, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing about the thing with the safety is that you can hear the sound of a safety being click off.--[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 04:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Remember that the dialogue was written long before it was decided the cop would be holding a Glock(unless the writer is Michael Mann). So maybe the round in the chamber thing may have been unwarranted, but maybe he was a rookie, he did seem sort of skittish. Regardless, it's unfair to call ''that'' crappy dialogue. I think you're letting your knowledge of guns get in the way of enjoying good stories.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 04:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Dont know if its worth noting, but the cop he tells that too, is actually, the first zombie he ends up shooting, after leaving the police station. Rick commented he was careless and dumb, so reminding him, makes sense.

And, of course, Rick committed a cardinal sin; he referred to a magazine as a clip :P -SasquatchJim

I'm not surprised, Sasqatch. The cop I talked to called his Glock 17 a "Glock 9". I'm sure he would have said clip to. Not all cops are into guns. Haha

:He also could have meant "Glock 9mm", you know, since "9" is common shorthand for 9mm. When has anyone referred to .45 ACP as "11.43mm"? Hell, I once had a conversation with a Korean War vet about 1911s and when I referred to the cartridge by its dimensions, he had a dumbfounded look on his face and "corrected" me, telling me that the 1911A1 was "a 45, not no 11-something". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:51, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==SIG P239==

[[Image:WalkingDead-SIGP239.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|A chase suspect emerges from the wrecked car firing a two-tone SIG P239 at police.]]

This doesn't look like a P239 to me; more like a P226 or P228. It's too big, and it has nickel controls (which the two-tone P239s don't have). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:P228 because of the slide length. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Remember, on low resolution screencaps like the ones I had to use, feel free to correct the Gun IDs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::: Watching the scene I agree that it is somewhat larger. Sounds fine to me - I'll change it. The first episode was pretty good. I'm adding a Beretta 92FS (M9) entry - Grimes indeed takes one off a 'dead' soldier inside the Abrams tank he gets into, as noted by the above section. Also, I never did get a good glance at the snub revolver, though I'm fairly certain it's a S&W. They're replaying the show so I'll keep an eye for it, and some of the other guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

==Spoiler Comment and Morgan's Revolver==
Its nice to see the page updated but arn't some of the descriptions (mainly the colt python) a bit spoilerific for anyone who hasn't watched it yet? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Whoa, yes they are, I sure as hell didn't add those. :b I'll reword them somewhat. Also! The revolver Morgan uses is a Snub S&W Model 66, I can almost guarantee it. Bah, wish I could get screencaps. Still, I'll add that as well. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure its a 66? I remember it having a 5 round cylinder --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I grabbed this off my skyplus box so sorry bout the quality [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2i700fm.jpg[/IMG] Any use, its definatly a 5 shot--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: I could have ''sworn'' it was a S&W. But it's definitely not a Model 66, since there's no rear adj. sights, nor of course a 6-shot cylinder. But Smith snubbie J-frames (5-shot) all have flat 'bull-nose' ejector rod shrouds, not curved. Bah, now I'm kinda stumped. My best guess at this point would probably be a [[Ruger SP101]]. Convert that image there to JPG and upload it on the site. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::Looks like it could also be either the [[Taurus Model 617]] or possibly a stainless steel [[Taurus Model 85]]. Biu it is difficult.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

From the barrel it looks like an early Taurus Model 85 in stainless or nickel plated. It was a five shot cylinder definitely.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: After posting I did consider it being a Taurus, many of them are awfully S&W looking to begin with. I doubt it's a 617 but it easily could be an 85. Hell, could be anything for all I know at this point. I guess it'll just be another 'unidentified' until we get more/better screencaps. I'll modify the S&W 66 entry I posted and just call it un-ID'd snub revolver, noting the 5-shot capacity and stating the possible choices. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I am almost certain it is actually a Ruger SP101, two inch model. No other snubbie, as far as I know, has the upper rear of the frame shaped into a rear sight notch like the SP101, as both of those Taurus models just lack rear sights - you can check the Taurus website as both models lack a "rear sight" category under specifications. Also, if you check out the behind the scenes vid [http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/?bclid=625294007001&bcpid=111717822001&bctid=628200502001 here], there is a pretty decent side shot of the revolver. The general shape is very close to a SP101, and even from the front, the lines on Morgan's triggerguard and barrel are cut much closer semi-melted look on the SP than the very sharp ones on a Taurus oR S&W.

All said, the easiest way to tell would be if they showed the damned cylinder release at some point. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 07:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC) (Corrected typo --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 02:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

: It's not an SP101. The recoil shield shown is a simple traditional shape, not the bulkier contours Rugers have in that part of the frame. Also, the ejector rod shroud is cut back more sharply from the muzzle, and the revolver in the show seems to lack the small hole on the front of the frame for the front crane lock. [[User:Rule .303|Rule .303]] 14:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Judging by the screens uploaded I'd say definately not a 617, 617 is a 7-shot, also can't see a ported barrel. Still think it's a Taurus though. [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 09:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

If you watch the Making of the Walking dead Season 1 it shows the side of the revolver.. Looks exactly like the Ruger SP101 from Breaking Bad. I'm guessing its the same prop. (Just like I think the RV is. )

: It's definately not a Ruger SP101. As to the comment of the SP101 being unique with regards to the rear notch site. Nope. All snubbies have that. I have both the Taurus 85 (old shape) and the Taurus 85 Stainless. Looks much more like that due to the unique underlug on the revolver. Also look at the SP101's front. http://www.dayattherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sp101target8.jpg Definately not what we are seeing in these screen captures. [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 07:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It appears to be a Taurus 405 to me. Looks large-bored, probably .40S&W so that would match the 405. The front sight is tiny from that back angle which also matches the 405, the cylinder backing plate is the same etc. krispic 21:36 Feb 22 2012

== What kind of tank was that? ==

Its oviously a stand-in for an M-1 but I'm not sure what it is. I'm thinking possibly a Chieftain, but I'm not sure. Also, note that a real M-1 woulnd't have worked for the scene since it lacks the floor escape hatch.

-AC.

:I'm also reasonably certain the 82nd Airborne Division doesn't have tanks in their TO&E, yet the (un)dead soldier in the tank had an 82nd patch on his left shoulder. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:32, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Well i would imagine that in the chaos of the zombie apocalypse lots of soldiers ended up with other units doin jobs they aren't really trained for.

Actually smaller units are frequently attached (I believe the Brits call it seconded) to other units for mission purposes. Some armor battalions spent the whole campaign in France (WW II, 1944-1945) being attached to various infantry units - to include the airborne. After all the elements of the 9th and 10th armor divisions that were in Bastogne during the siege fell under the 101st Airborne for the duration of that battle. Funny how the airborne mafia always seems to forget about all the ''other'' troops that fought in that battle. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:17, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

At this point I'm not sure, but I do suspect it's the same tank that shows up in ''[[Zombieland]]''. Both shows are filmed in Georgia and the voice-over commentary on ''Zombieland'' states that the tank is owned by a private collector.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Definately a Chieftain.

: I concur, Chieftains are often used (mocked-up) as stand-ins for Abrams tanks. I also noticed the bottom escape hatch, which as far as I can recall, indeed isn't on an actual Abrams. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

''Other comments posted on main page-''

(Perhaps it is just me, but the Abrams featured in this appears to be a mocked up British Chieftain Tank, I didn't get a good look at the tank but it didn't seem to be a genuine Abrams, although it could simply be an older pattern M1 without the TUSK upgrade, reactive armor and the more apparent loaders hatch. Yet that would not explain the escape hatch.- Doc345)

Older M1s didn't look that diffrent, from the later ones, aside from the most recent upgardes.

Also, the angle of the frontal turret armor is wrong to be an M1.

I think this may be the same tank which appeared in, among other series, Jericho. The vehicle, if I remember correctly, is built on an old Centurion chasis to resemble an Abrams with some obvious differences. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

On a random note, where was a Striker seen in the episode? It says on the page that there was one with a fifty cal on it, but aside from the tank, the only other military vehicles I saw where some HMMWVs, what looked like a deuce, and a half, and some abandone Hueys.

Intrestingly, in the trailor, the one Rick first sees after leaving the hospital lacked a rotor blade making me think it was edited in post-production. Also, the one off to Ricks left appears to still be lacking one.

-AC

at the begging seen when the main cerictor walkes out of the hospital he sees a ebandoned military equpent you can see a Stryker IFV --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 21:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
heres a picture
[[Image:The walking dead.png]]

I can say without a doubt that the 'M1' ''is'' a Chieftain, not a Centurion. The long sloping frontal 'nose' armour, the front idler wheel and the lockers/storage bins are features of the Chieftain, not the Centurion. Not too sure about the 'escape hatch' though. I wonder if this is the same 'M1' that appears in the 2010 remake of Red Dawn? It looks the same to me. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

*Naw, that one they've actually made some modifications to like building up the hull and turret to be more Abrams-like and putting an M1-style bulge over the cylindrical fume extractor. This is just a Chieftain with a fake M2 awkwardly perched on top of the hatch weapon mounting. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:07, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

== Things I noticed ==

Did anybody else notice that when Morgan cocked the hammer back on his gun and threatened to shoot Grimes if he didn't talk, the cylinder didn't advance to the next chamber like it should?

And what about Grimes' personal arsenal in his backpack? Is it safe to assume that rubber/resin mockups? He was getting bounced pretty hard by that horse and the guns kept bumping him in the back. That's at least 40 pounds of gear to be carrying around.

More than safe to assume that. Most of them even appeared to have solid barrels. Probably rubber.--[[Special:Contributions/99.48.50.70|99.48.50.70]] 04:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The cylinder did rotate, I remembered that happening when I watched the scene. As far as the bag -o- guns, I have no idea. If they were all rubber, they were modeled after some hard to find shotgun configurations and looked very real. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 20:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Grimes in episode 3 his duffle bag was holding six shotguns, two "high powered" rifles, a dozen handguns, and 700 rounds of assorted ammo. That's easily 80-90 pounds of gear. There's no way Grimes could be carrying that around in one hand with a gas can in the other. Or getting bucked and having the bag sag to the side and the stuff not come falling out.

Did anybody else notice that Dale seemed to switch between carrying a rifle with a sling, to carrying one without a sling between scenes?

== I rewatched the first episode. ==

Two of the Sheriffs deputys from the neighboring county had shotguns. One looked like and 870 Remington. The other looked like a Mossberg.

The gun used to shoot Rick, I'm pretty sure was either 1911, or a Glock. It seemed to have an extended slide.

-AC

:: I noticed the shotguns too but it was hard to get a decent look at them, mainly the second one (Mossberg I guess). I will concur at least one of the other shotguns was indeed a standard 870. No idea what the pistol is/was. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Almost positive the other two deputys, from the neighboring county had Glocks, like the other deputys from Ricks department.

You can see one of the shotguns fairly well, after Rick gots shot, one of the two deputys joins Shane in trying to help Rick. Like Shane, he drops his gun, and it can be seen fairly well.

Looking at the pick on here, I'm more positive than ever that the last gunmans weapon was a 1911.
Good eye on my part, since it was litreally visible for like less than a second.-AC.

==Andrea's gun==
I believe Andrea is packing a Smith and Wesson 3913 Ladysmith [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I concur. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Here's a good picture. http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-2-rick-andrea.php
[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:: I also agree about it being a 3913 Ladysmith. We also saw a M67 'baseball' grenade in this latest episode (actually the training version, you could still spot some blue paint on it). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of rifle did Meryl have? ==

Looked like possibly a Model 70, but I'm bad at identifing bolt actions.
-AC

Seriously, does anyone know what kind of rifle he had?-AC

Compare the bolt heads (or whatever the end of the bolt closest to the butt is called); the Remington 700 seems to have more of a protruding portion, while the Mod. 70 is tucked in and more square-like.

At least, that's what it seems like. There used to be a generic page for comparing Bolt-Action Rifles, like the shotguns have now. Where did that page go?

Here it is.

[[Bolt Action Rifles - Most common Sporting Models|Scoped Bolt Action Hunting Rifles]]. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

==Shane's Pistol==
Can anyone identify the pistol Shane is carrying? It looks like either a Glock or possibly a Sig Pro. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Probally a Gock. There very common cop guns, in both hollywood, and real life. Also, severael of the cops, at opening shootout had them, so evedently the prophouse they went to had some.
-AC

Definitely a Glock. Although it's only shown briefly, it looks like a 17. He carries it in a thumb break holster. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

Picture of him holding it: http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-4-carl-lori-shane-morales.php

After looking at the screenshot on the main page, can anyone identify the holster?

In the finale you can see its a Glock 19. Not 17. (Also the firing M4s looked like they had blank firing adapters as flashiders)

Definitely a 17 in the last episode when shane opens the barn doors and shhots all the walkers he fires too many rounds for it to be a 19

This is getting tiresome now, stop identifying guns based on the amount of rounds that they fire! It's a TV series where in editing they can easily make a 15 round magazine last for 80 rounds (see John Woo films) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:27, 2 January 2012 (CST)

==Merle==

It's Merle not Maryl or Marle

==Guts==
I really like how Rick actually checks the dead soldier's vest for more ammo instead of just taking the weapon like every other film. I also like how when his Beretta runs dry he doesn't toss it away like some generic action hero but he keeps it and stows it in Glenn's backpack. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that was good stuff. Have yet to see the Beretta again though. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:Did you also notice that his [[Colt Python]] is still in his hoslter even though he ran out of ammo for it? I liked that touch as well. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

You never know what you might find ammo for at a latter date.-AC
::Which he does in the third episode. Anyway Python's are too expensive to be tossing away on a whim. Even after the Zombie Apocalypse has happened. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

If I recall right they've been outta production since the late 90s.

::The last Python was manufactured approximately six years ago. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Still outta production than. If I recall right, for a while it was outta generael production, but could be special ordered.

Yes the last five or six years it had to be ordered through the custom shop.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The Python, and The Anaconda, where the best revolvers Colt made since the SAA imho-AC

IMO, the Official Police and Detective Special should be included as well. -SasquatchJim

Too bad that still fully loaded .50 next to the tank is too heavy to take back [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If he can walk and ride a horse with a 90lb bag on his back like its nothing, he could carry a M2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

And he brought buddies with him to GET that bag he left behind. They can lug around an M2 with ammo. Sure it doesn't look like there's any extra, but it's an M2 with AMMO! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

But honestly, what would be the purpose, in this story? I mean, they're already getting guns and ammo, and it's not like you need a lot of penetration to kill a zombie, so they don't really need a .50 caliber machinegun. All it would really do was kill a couple of zombies while making a shitload of noise, attracting every zombie in a mile radius. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 05:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

: I bet one would've come in handy on top of the camper during the attack on the camp. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::Possibly (I posted that before I saw that episode, sorry.), though I doubt any of them have any training or even any practice with military grade machine guns, and so I'm betting that during the chaos of the attack, they would have killed more of their own people. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:43, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
::: Woulda been kinda hard to use that thing in the dark, too, since the only source of light is that campfire. Scoring headshots on zombies without friendly fire in a situation like that? No way even TV-land can pull THAT one off.

Talking about scavenging guns, even when they were rushing back to the vehicles in front of the CDC wouldn't it have been a good idea to at least grab a couple of the discarded weapons lying around out front?

==Vatos==
Ok, tonight I think I've seen a S&W model 10, a Colt Detective Special, and possibly a S&W mosel 28 in the hands of the mexican gangsters and it looks like T-Dog was using a BAR. The bag had some Sigs and Glocks and Daryl had a Remington 870 and I think that Rick is using a Mossberg 590 not a 500. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't edit the page tonight, I just wrote on here. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Daryl took at least one Sig from the bag. T-Dog used a Mossberg later, but I think his scoped rifle was a BAR. The shotty Glenn ended up with, looked the same as Daryl's. Also, Shane drew his pistol at one point, but it was hard to see.-AC
==Daryl's Crossbow==
Daryl Dixon's crossbow is a Horton Scout HD 125: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2817217&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch. In the fourth episode "Vatos", when Daryl points it a T-dog on the roof you can see the faded Horton logo on the front. Scout 125 can be seen above the trigger after the camera angle changes. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

::Picture added and changes made. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Was that an XD? ==

The handgun, that Daryl takes from the bag of guns. At first I thought it was a SIG, but after rewatching it, I think it may have been a Springfield Army XD.
-AC

Nope, definitely a bi-tone Sig of some kind.

Yeah, the XDs don't have all that stuff on the side of the gun and the slide is actually more Glock like than the more rounder Sig slides [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Walkingdeadsig.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rick Grimes ([[Andrew Lincoln]]) inspects a bi-tone Sig Sauer handgun from his bag of guns.]]

- ZeoRanger5 17:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

that looks like a SIG-sauer P226 or P228. simmons 8492

I agree with simmons 8492, i'd say p228 myself.

How did you think that was an XD?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 14:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. When I stuck it in his waistband, it looked like a combination between a Sig, and a Glock. As far as handguns go, I'd say the XD is closest to that description. Course I was rather sleep deprived at the time.-AC

i also think that in episode 5 shane pulls what looks to be a sig when the sister is coming back to life . im not sure because i know shane has a glock but this isnt in the holster , its carried mexican style and is only seen for seconds. can some one verify ?[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Rick also pulls a gun carried similarily in that scene. Ricks looked like a Glock.

but shanes looks more like a sig or something .[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Some ones gotta move that pic into the 228 spot.[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:It's not a P228. The screencap doesn't show it well, but I checked the episode again, and it's possible to see that it has the squared trigger guard of the P226, rather than rounded, as on a P228. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

==Faking recoil==

Its a littlle overdone but nice to see it (a HP in 9mm doesnt kick as much as shown, but its better than most shows, and handling is pretty good or tv.

may be because he hasent realy fired a 9mm in a while he wasnt use to it or because hes used to the revovler

That makes no sense, .357 Magnum (I'm guessing thats what is loaded) has alot more kick, if he can handle a .357 than he could easily handle a 9mm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:02, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

and im sure that a python has more kick than that highpower . and being that he killed a hand full of zombies with that in the first episode it wont matter .-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:Just a FYI, its Hi Power, not High Power.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Since most people don't know the distinction between a Hi-Power and a Colt M1911, and the show is known to have certain..flaws when it comes to reality, they could have just been assuming that it was a .45, and Hollywood logic states that if it's larger than 9mm, it makes your wrist fly up and sends bad guys flying.

Or it was just because they wanted Rick to seem cool with a stainless steel firearm (like his Colt Python, which he points at other survivors so often, it could be a drinking game).

But being seriously, this is the same show where Glocks have external, slide-mounted safeties in the US and headshots can be made off-hand with a sidearm at 50 meters while running.

AUA/

:I haven't been able to watch the series only the first episode (no cable) but... The Python is a heavy revolver and could be loaded with .38 Specials. Also with the Hi-Power being a semi-auto and able to shoot more rapidly. Would have more perceived recoil. Seeing guys on YouTube handle .45s with very little recoil, it's shotguns and full auto rifles where movies get recoil wrong. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==DShK heavy machine gun?==

I believe there was an abandoned DShK heavy machine gun flanked by sandbags when they headed towards the CDC building by the looks of the muzzle. (This was the best episode so far, I think.) - Angel_956

Most likely a mocked up M2 but I definatly saw that distinct muzzle brake.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I added a cap but you cannot really tell one way or another if it is a mock up or not. Either way...it makes no sense for it to be there in the first place!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was thinking. Why would an outdated Soviet Union machine gun even be in the show, but it might be cleared up in the next episode. I clearly remember the guy in the CDC building saying something about some French soilders, I think. If so it might of meant that there was an international response to the zombie outbreak, trying to control it, explaining the DShK. [[User:Angel_956|Angel_956]]

:Now your just over-analyzing, it's in all likeliness what they used because it's what was available to use when they were shooting the scene. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe somebody "requisitioned" (read: looted) it from the National Infantry Museum or Fort Benning; both are in or around Columbus, GA, which isn't exactly close to Atlanta, but it's the closest place I can think of where you might plausibly find a DShK. When you need more HMGs, you grab what's available. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 20:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Weird though, since they obviously had M2s available for filming.-AC

:Not necessarily. Armorers can change during filming and weapons may not be available even though they were previously. Also remember that only the first episode had the M2 so the armorer could have changed since then. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, those M2HBs are still there in episodes 2 ("Guts," when Grimes escapes from the tank) and 4 ("Vatos," when Glenn goes to retrieve the Bag O' Guns) and they pass at least two M2HBs on the way to the CDC's front door after they pass the DShK. They weren't just there for the pilot. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 09:18, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

My thought was militia that made a last stand with the army to protect the people gathering at the CDC (notice the weapon is surrounded by bodies in civilian clothes), the DShK having been purchased by one of the members (legitimately or otherwise) and subsequently put to use following the outbreak. - Wolfblade670

Maybe the Russians dropped in tom VDV to help protect the CDC. -Jakezergling

:I, umm, highly doubt that... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:30, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, Russia would have enough trouble fighting the Walkers on their own turf, considering that Russia is easily 2 times the size of continental United States. Besides that, do the Russians even use the DshK anymore? I do believe it's been phased out by the Kord since the late 90s/early 2000s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:18, 27 February 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's knife ==

In the third episode, when Daryl is told about his brother, he attacks Rick with some sort of hunting or combat knife. He's later seen with it in a sheath on his left thigh, and you get a fairly close (But very brief) look at it when they're walking through the building at the beginning of the forth episode. Anyone have any clue what it is? I mean, from the brief glimpse I got of it in the forth episode, it looked like it was possibly a TOPS Steel Eagle 107C, the same kind of knife that the character Royce had sheathed in Predators, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm, or give an alternative? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

It's actually a Busse Combat Team Gemini with a bead blasted finish and black and tan layered g10. Gerber is now supplying knives to the show as well, as seen in the season 2 premiere when Carl finds a full roll in and abandon vehicle. The list of models is on their FB page. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

: I would agree that Daryl does have a Busse Combat Team Gemini. A clear profile-type photo of Daryl's knife was featured in the "story sync" for the eighth episode of the second season on the AMC website. Here's a link to that image: http://www.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/208-17.jpg --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:24, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== What kind of gun did he give Morales? ==

He said it was a .357, but I have no idea what it was.-AC

/AUA

He held it in his hand for a profile shot; maybe you should try screencapping it at that point and going from there. There should be an ID for it though, unlike Morgan's snubnose.

AUA/

I lack the equipment needed to screencap.-AC

/AUA

Use IrfanView (freeware) or the PrtScn button on your computer (press it on the frame you want to capture, and then paste it into Paint to crop it).

AUA/

I think it's a Smith and Wesson 586 [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

== Rick's second shotgun.==

After Rick gives the 590 (it wasn't a 500, someone should change that) to Guillermo, he uses one with an 18 inch barrel, a blued type finish and wood furniture. I think some people commented on it being a Mossberg, but it has a rounded bolt like a Remington 870. However, it's not an 870 since the trigger guard isn't round enough, the magazine tube is longer than the standard 4 shot tube, and it doesn't have an extension attached, and the wood furniture has a single rib on the side for gripping. After doing some research, my best guess is that it's an earlier H&R Pardner Pump, possibly in some sort of police configuration. I know it's neither a Mossberg or a Remington, though.

It's indeed an H&R Pardner Pump. The humpback receiver is unmistakable. [Ballistics_Expert2]

/AUA

I'd PrtScn/screencap the shotgun in question before making any comparisons. We still haven't definitively IDed Dale's bolt-action, so maybe you should get one of that as well.

AUA/

We still have Merles bolt-action as well.
-AC

This cap from the page will suffice:

[[Image:WD870ep05.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Rick with his Remigton, when he and Shane patrol the woods (Episode 5).]]

And a link to a Pardner Pump configured similarly:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/TRguy/Guns/NEFPardnerPumpYouth8-12-10.jpg

A few things distinguishing the shotgun in the picture as a Pardner Pump as opposed to an 870, 500 series, or whatever:

-Some type of thin rib on the top of the barrel.
-The foregrip has the distinctive groove in it as seen on the Pardner Pump.
-The agnle that the receiver curves at the butt end is a sharper angle rather than a bend type (you can tell by the shadow).
-The magazine tube is longer than a 4 shot, but it's not screwed on like other models, nor does the endcap and barrel link resemble that of other models.

Some other things that you can't notice in the picture, like the flatter trigger guard or a good shot of the angled receiver, are seen in the series very easily, namely in Episode 5 during Rick and Shane's patrol, when this cap takes place, and one instance in Episode 6 where the doctor is drawing blood and the gun is sitting behind Rick as he waits. This good enough? --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 10:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think you're right, it's not a Remington, Mossberg, or a Winchester. It looks like a Pardner, more like the Pardner pump compact, due to the shorter barrell. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 23:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

-Rick's first shotgun was a 500 with the extended tube. It didn't have the bayonet lug, just check some of the promo pics on imbd.com - [[User:MarkXIX|MarkXIX]]

Ah, so it is, I could have sworn I saw the 590s tube cap on it. I can notice a buncha stuff on an H&R, but I get that wrong, lol. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 17:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Rick's shotgun, from the end of Vatos and on, was a Pardner Pump, but I don't think it was a 20 gauge. Sometimes, hunting model guns can have the vent-rib barrel cut down, to where it is a riot shotgun. I see that as being more plausible. --[[User:1897Reloaded|1897Reloaded]] 11:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

==Think its funny==

Rick misses several close range shots (so do long gun toting officers) in the beginning against chase suspects, then later in series hes nailing headshots left and right....

Noticed that too, although zombies don't shoot back. They just charge straight ahead.

/AUA

It's a screenplay-direction thing. The show is already a bit overdramatized in general, so little things like the 'clip' and 'safety' dialogue or the headshot ratio aren't really all that important to the screenwriters, at least not compared with inserting dramatic bits into it.

AUA/

When the police were shooting the chase suspects, their targets were live people. An accurate marksman or not, if you're not used to firing live rounds at live humans your subconscious may not want you to hit that kill shot. Zombies are different.

also he has had weeks of shooting live targets ie the zombies so he as probaly leared to shot them really well --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Unless you're superhuman, you can't learn how to make a shot that is off-hand, behind you, at a 1.5 x 1 ft target at 50 meters, while RUNNING, in a few weeks. Few people would be able to make that shot, period. The gate-zombie shots were just...unfeasible.

AUA/

*Well it is a show about the dead walking around and eating the flesh of the living. I'm willing to overlook the amazing skill that Rick displays with headshots.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:28, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

==Question about Shane's shotgun technique==
Just a question for those who may know, is it considered proper technique to hold the gun that high on the shoulder, with his cheek resting on the receiver? I figuered it was an adjustmant made due to the M4-style stock, as Rick and other survivors wielding unmodified weapons don't do this.

: I noticed that too, I figured it was just the actor's preference (possibly due to inexperience) but I guess it could be because of the M4 stock. I dunno. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

:It's standard practice in the US military. They teach you to ride the stock high so that your sights are level with your eyes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Thats with the M16/M4, not a shotgun.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:the stock on the shotgun is a Knoxx Industries SpecOps NRS Shotgun Stock

::My dad has one on his 870.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

-i noticed that . i dont think that stock has a single thing to do with it . it probably prefrances [[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Considering the US military teaches you do to that with a M4, the stock is pretty much the same as the M4 so I could see why he's doing it. Also I don't get the feeling that any of the actors are really inexperienced, they all seem to be trained well in regards to weapons. Least Rick and Shane do.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:18, 8 March 2012 (CST)

==Series Finale==

I noticed a nickel finished pistol tucked into Daryl's waistband mexican style early on in the episode, looked like a SIG.
I'm thinking that Daryl's pistol was probably the same Hi-Power Rick took off merle in episode 2.

Does any one else think the grenade description is a bit of a spoiler as it is a deus ex machina. I suggest only saying it is used in episode 6 and not how. I know this has absoloutely nothing to do with firearms but i loved the ax decapitation amidst the headshots at the end --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

:The grenade wasn't a deus ex machina, but a textbook example of Chekhov's gun. He found it in the first episode even. It would have been a deus ex machina if they found it there.(I expected him to actually bring it out against the guys in the city in episode 3, myself)--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 08:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, New guy here. When Jenner allows the the others to enter the facility at the start of the episode, he's seen holding an M4, and he mentions that "There're a lot of these lying around. I familiarized myself." And yet, none of the others ever even think of finding a couple of the guns for themselves. Shame, considering a couple of those and a few mags would've come in pretty handy outside (especially if there was a suppressor to be found) Anyone else bugged by this?

They've been sitting outside for like a month. The M4 is a fine, gun, but you need to clean it regularly.-AC

:Only if your in the desert sand, sitting around like that outside would be fine but not how I would store my guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I was definitely bugged by this fact. Supposedly a lot of M4s and 30 round magazines lying around, and Jenner's the only guy who has one. But then again the supply of ammo might've been low, considering everything that'd happened. [[Ballistics_Expert2]]

first off all there are no M4A1`s seen inside all out side wicth iswere he probily got it second they were only out side for a few momints ehter runing away from the bulding or trying to get in before they are over welbed with zombies tird as he said ammo is preety rare as you can see when they are out side there are hunderdes of dead zombies witch had to be killed by something --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== To Do List. ==

1. Shotguns used by deputies in opening shootout.
2. Morgans revolver.
3. Merles rifle.
4. The guns, Rick, and Shane pull after Amy turns.
5. The gun given to Morales.
6. Daryls handgun.
7. Whether Shanes Glock is a 17 or 19.
8. Whether Ricks first shotty was a 500 or a 590.
9. Ricks second shotty.

I miss anything?-AC

==Short Season Huh?==

At least season 2 will be twice as long, whenever they get around to making it.....

At least there will be a seaon two, I thought this was a miniseries at first and was very dissapointed that it was over so soon. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 01:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

It's definately already in production. Normally when a series gets picked up production on the second season gets rolling ASAP. This became a pretty popular show, show I'm guessing AMC got the ball rolling right away when they realized they had demand for the show. Anyone here read the graphic novel series? I want to try and get into it but want to know if it's worth the time and money--[[User:Burgershot621|Burgershot621]] 05:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

They really are worth it. I buy the trade paperbacks, they are like $12.00 a book. There are 13 of them up to now. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Personaaly i prefer the graphic novels. Dont get me wrong i love the series, but the comics are much more grim and dark, in the series everyone seems to be more willing to get along and its more zombie orientated, the comics are much more grim, its about the characters and in the comic no characters are safe, even mainstay ones. The tv series feels slightly more commercialised and main characters have outlived their comic book life already. I do love the tv version, and darly dixion is the best non comic character creation to be added to the series, I just hope Carl gets a gun next series, that said and cant belive i have to wait till october to see series 2.- Captain Snikt [[Special:Contributions/109.157.4.163|109.157.4.163]] 23:58, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:Daryl has proven so popular that he's actually being written into the comic. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:15, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

== Popular Cop Guns ==
An answer above said that the Glock was "a very common cop gun, in both hollywood, and real life." This is true, but I was wondering if their were any other cop guns in hollywood and in real life that are as popular as the Glock.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The Beretta 92 is the only one that comes to mind for me. -SasquatchJim.

:There aren't too many police depts issuing the Beretta 92F anymore, even though Hollywood still shows them being carried by cops. Anyway, Glock holds just under 2/3rds of the U.S. law enforcement market, SIG-Sauer holds about 1/3rd, and a number of other makes (S&W, H&K, Beretta, etc.) are constantly fighting each other for what's left. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

SIG-Sauer P226, S&W M19/66, AR-15, and many more... --[[User:nkingman|nkingman]]

Ah, that's right.
Some older ones include the S&W Model 10, S&W Model 28, Colt Trooper, and a 12 gauge pump shotgun (namely a Remington 870.)
Another new one is the S&W M&P -SasquatchJim

There was once a time when the S&W Model 15/67, the S&W Model 13/65. Colt Official Police, Ruger Six Series revolvers, the S&W Model 19/66 and the Colt Lawman/Trooper Mk III were also very popular Cop revolvers.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:40, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

Glocks, S&W M&Ps, SIGs, HK USPs, S&W 5906 (4506, etc) are known for being "cop guns",
Glocks IIRC are used by 60% of the police force in the US so its kinda hard to compare

== Flash suppressor on M4A1 ==

Did anyone else notice the flash suppressor on the M4A1 held by the soldier that gets grabbed is different than normal?
:I thought it was a nongun.--[[Special:Contributions/129.89.179.105|129.89.179.105]] 01:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)(thePotShot)
::Just for reference,
::[[Image:M4A1nongun.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M4A1 Non Gun]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Yeah, it's a Non Gun M4. Look at the range at which he's shooting at his comrades. Blanks are dangerous if an actor is shooting at other actors who are that close, so they probably had to use the Non Gun instead. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:57, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, the Aimpoint M68 CCO (in this case I believe it is a Comp M2 or ML2) can be used with the foreward lens cover closed. Used in this method, it forms an occuladed eye-sight, which were one of the first types of weapons optics employed. Using an occuladed eye-sight is very similar in principle to the BAC method employed in some Trijicon ACOGs, both eyes are left open and due to the way the brain processes images from the eye, what the left (or right eye sees) downrange has the red dot from the other eye (which is looking down the sight) superimposed on it. This is useful as there are rumors that the red dot (particularly in the Aimpoint family) can in fact be detected from in front of the weapon due to the intensity of the light, espiecially in night battle conditions. So the sceintist might really know what he is doing, but it is just as likely it was a mistake by the prop department.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 22:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== I liked Rick's reaction when he pulled the pin on the grenade in the last episode ==

He was thinkin "ohshitohshitohshitohshit" and then hauled ass outta there haha. I liked that little detail, along with him getting knocked off his feet as he tried to get as far away from it as possible, instead of the clichè "walk slowly towards the camera as a bomb goes off behind you with a bad-ass grimace on your face". This show had a lot of nice little details like that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)- Yeah but its a grenade bro, you have like what 7 seconds so you can't walk away slowly from it..and also the building was about to total..-jake

Yeah, I liked that too. i hate when like the everyday joe can slowly walk away from a huge explosion,[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

I like the way that he pulled the pin and had the "Oh my GOD!" moment when he suddenly realised that he needed to run fast. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:49, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

Lol, my friend was like that fuse is burning wtf is he doing? chilling?

== Season 2 ==

Anyone seen the trailer yet for the second seaons? It's been out for a few weeks now. I jus--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)t thought it was interesting that it hasn't been mentioned here.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

I don't have the equipment for getting screencaps from TV, but the revolver Daryl took from the camper who committed suicide looks like either a Colt Cobra or Detective Special. The structure doesn't look right for being a S&W Model 10 or Model 36/37. And the slender grip profile and lack of an ejector rod housing eliminates the possibility of it being a Taurus.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

I was rewatching the season 2 premier episode and I noticed something that irked me a bit concerning the scene at the tent where Daryl found the Colt revolver. This is a series known for a great deal of firearms safety and consideration. But here we have an example of typical Hollywood gun handling. Nobody checked to see how many live rounds were in it, they just assumed it was still loaded and ready to be used. For all we know Daryl handed Laurie an empty weapon for taking on the trail back to the RV.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

==Gerber Bag of Knives==

Carl ([[Chandler Riggs]]) found this bag in the first episode of the second season which contained six different gerber tool knives and machetes.

[[Image:Gerber-Zombie-Apocolypse-Knives.jpg|thumb|none|500px| So long as you use a knife, there's still a little love left.]]

In the Season 2 props video on the AMC website, they explain the endorsement and show some of the gear. The prop master also gives a look at Rick's character specific items, which includes a [http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000582-Modified-Partially-Serrated/dp/B004DT26ME/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319921541&sr=8-2 DMF Folder]. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:58, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

Some of this bag is anachronistic though, as the knives were not invented until after the zombie apocalypse destroyed humanity, and presumably the Gerber factory. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:21, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

How do you know that though? As far as I can remember there hasn't been a date mentioned for when the zombie apocalypse happened, it could be set in the very near future. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:30, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:What I meant is that some of the knives have been released since the series started airing, and I'm assuming that the first episode wasn't set in the future. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:41, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
::Fair enough. I do think of it like well they haven't really set an actual date on when it occurs so anything "new" that shows up in the show is either there to look cool or it's there for some sort of product placement. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:33, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::Or both. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:35, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::: Touche --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:08, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

== Morgan's Revolver ==

The revolver that Morgan uses is a S&W model 60

:It can't be the Model 60 because of the curved ejector shroud. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:38, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Season 2 spoiler-ish descriptions ==

I feel like a lot of the description "updates" on the guns used (or re-used, as applicable) in Season 2 are giving too much info away. Definitely enough to qualify as spoilers to some people (like me). One shouldn't need to narrate the scene and context in which the gun appears, at least not to the extent some of the descriptions are- especially if it's giving away future happenings.

== M4 ==

I think the caption about the doctor not noticing the covers for the M68 is a little of a moot point. The doctor stated he wasnt familiar with the weapon, and simply picked it up when soldiers started dying or running away. -MissySummers-

== Dave and Tony's guns ==

In the eighth episode of the second season - "Nebraska" - two newcomers walk into the bar where Rick and Glenn found Hershel drinking alone. The strangers introduce themselves to Rick, Glenn, and Hershel as Dave and Tony. I had a difficult time identifying these two guns that Dave and Tony had. Dave's gun looked to me like it might be a SIG-Sauer P226. Tony's gun looked to me like it was some sort of sawn-off double-barrel shotgun - maybe an over/under style double barrel shotgun too. Did anybody get a good look at either one of these guns? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:52, 21 February 2012 (CST)

After watching the episode "Triggerfinger" it looks like hershel picked up Dave's pistol which looked to me like a SIG-SAUER P228 to me. And the big guy had a cutdown pump shotgun that I think was a Remington 870 and Rick was duel weilding it with his Python when they left the bar. The kid on the roof appeared to a have a bolt action rifle but it never showed a clear pic.

: I just watched the "Nebraska" and "Triggerfinger" episodes again back to back. I would have to agree with you now on Dave's gun. It appears that Dave actually did bring a SIG-Sauer P228 into the bar in the "Nebraska" episode. I got a better look at this gun in the "Triggerfinger" episode when Hershel was armed with it. I could tell this gun was a P228 because the trigger guard was curved instead of hooked like the P226 has, plus the barrel and slide on this gun were shorter than what the P226 has. I looked very closely at Tony's shotgun too, but I don't agree with you on this one. There's no way it could have been a Remington 870. I would still say that it is a sawn-off, over/under, double barrel shotgun. (Just my opinion here, but a sawn-off shotgun would be a piss-poor gun for defending yourself against a zombie horde that is coming at you. The shot spread pattern on a sawn-off shotgun would be way too wide to be effective on any zombie's head beyond short range, and it's better to kill multiple zombies from a distance than at point blank range, right?) I also noticed that Glenn had Tony's shotgun later on in the "Triggerfinger" episode. I agree with you about that the kid on the roof though - he sure seemed to have a bolt action rifle with a scope mounted on it. What happened to it is the question now. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 15:59, 22 February 2012 (CST)
I just watched it again and I swore I heard a cocking sound so that could make it a pump action shotgun. You were right its not a pump action i believe its a over/under gun. [[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

: TV shows and movies usually have the cocking sound effects for guns added in for dramatic purposes. (For example, it seems that we often hear the cocking sound effect every time the script calls for one character to point a gun at somebody or something. In real life, guns are normally silent when this happens.) The Walking Dead seems to be just such a TV show. I don't know how to screen capture this yet, but I paused episode 208 at the 43:15 mark. I could clearly see the underside of Tony's gun there, and I did not see things on this gun such as a loading port, or a slide piece, both of which would be consistent with a pump action shotgun. It was all dark on that part of the shotgun instead, which to me seems more consistent with a double barrel, over/under, break action shotgun than with a pump action shotgun. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:55, 23 February 2012 (CST)

: I couldn't get a good look at Tony's shotgun in either "Nebraska" or "Triggerfinger". At first glance it looked like a cut down Winchester 1887 (like in T-2). I was wondering if anyone else happened to think that too? Also it almost looked like it had a synthetic stock on it which made me think it could have been the Chiappa T-Series 1887, but I don't know if those are availible yet, but again I didn't get a good enough look at it.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 20:10, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::It is a sawn off over and under (although it may be purpose made as it appeared to have a front sight present). You get a look at the gun when the guy gets up to piss, and after he is shot you see a front view of the gun showing that it is two open barrels rather than a barrel with a magazine tube underneath. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::: You're right. After rewatching the episode online and pausing just after he gets shot I could see the two barrels and also could see there is no lever either.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 22:57, 23 February 2012 (CST)

Tony's shotgun looks VERY much like the MOSSBERG HS12 after another look at episode 9. When Rick searches Tony's pocket and picks up two (probably 12-ga) shotgun rounds, you can clearly see the Top/Locking Lever for opening/locking the breech contrasted against the background. In the shot just before that you can see a Picatinny or Weaver rail on top of the receiver. This clearly says "HS12" to me...and though it pretty clearly does not have a rail on the bottom of the under barrel, not all HS12s have the under-barrel rail, I think. --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]] 27 Feb 2012
:Had to Google Mossberg HS12, and I must admit I giggled a little bit at the concept of a "tactical" over/under. I watched the episodes in question the other day, and from memory at least I'd have to agree with you. It'd be nice if someone could post a picture, though.... [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 18:05, 27 February 2012 (CST)
::I will try to get an appropriate screencap uploaded; ditto for the Sig P228/229 to help resolve that one. PS "tactical" double-barrels have made ground in the last couple years or so- check out Stoeger's "tactical" SxS...just remember to bring your barf bag- they're charging the same prices for one as you'd see for a good 870 or Mossy pump. Outrageous! In any case, stupid people waste their money on them- but I digress. Tony's apparent choice of shotgun bespeaks his desperation and/or seriously limited tactical reasoning ability- which I guess we already could've figured out around the time his body hit the floor. =P --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]]

: Does the Mossberg HS12 come with sling swivel studs? I noticed that Tony was carrying his shotgun by a sling that was looped over his shoulder. Since the buttstock of this shotgun had been sawn off, there was no way to just let it hang there - he had to keep holding onto the sling with his hand instead. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 09:00, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== What caused it? ==
Does the comic ever reveal what the cause of the outbreak was? I'm not asking for spoilers as to what the cause ''was'', I'm just asking if it's ever revealed, like a "yeah, they find out what it was" or "no, they build a rocket ship and fly to Mars to restart human civilization", or something like that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:59, 27 February 2012 (CST)
:I don't think any reason has actually been given, and Robert Kirkman (writer of the comic) has stated that he doesn't plan to ever give a definitive cause. In the comic characters have speculated that it is caused by a virus that everyone in the world is infected with that causes them to reanimate after death. Because I've read the comic I already knew this so can't remember if it is made clear in the series, but it is the kind of zombie apocalypse where everyone who dies turns into a zombie, even if they die from non zombie causes (zombie bites cause infections that are 100% lethal). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 27 February 2012 (CST)

For Example a certain Main Character is shot dead at the end of the first book (in the comic they never went to the CDC, instead they just got the guns and left, but before they left the character is killed) and later in the series (maybe a book or two later, Rick returns to the place where they buried said person, and he was a zombie even though he had died by a bullet and not bite/scratch --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 09:34, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== Unidentified pistol ==

In the most recent episode, S02E11, Carl takes a pistol out of Daryl's bike. Presumably it is the same pistol Daryl used in episode S01E4. There were some pretty clear shots of the pistol when Carl is holding it, looked like a Browning, but I could be completely wrong. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 23:51, 5 March 2012 (CST)
:It was a [[Browning BDA]], not sure if this is the same gun as in S01E04 as it looks like that has a larger beavertail on the back of the grip, but is hard to tell from the shots available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:56, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Shotgun stock? ==
What type of stock is on Shane's shotgun?
--[[User:Zombie Killer 1995|Zombie Killer 1995]] 09:24, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:It says on the main article, a KNOXX SpecOps NRS stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:40, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's pistol ==

I think Daryl's unidentified pistol might be a CZ-75 series, the frame/grips seem to match it as does the general size.
:Looked more like a Browning Hi-Power to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:18, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I concur with Cool-breeze. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:41, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Looked more like a Browning BDM to me.

Hey, it does not really matter at this point as the stupid kid loses in the leafs and then books it..
::He ''didn't'' lose it in the bushes. But even if he had, it still matters what it is, considering the purpose of this website. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:22, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

That actually seemed to best the best look at the handgun we see and it appeared to be a Browning Hi-Power to me as well.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:15, 8 March 2012 (CST)

:People are talking about two different guns here. The easily identifiable one is the one that Carl takes out of Daryl's saddle bag in the most recent episode, which is definitely a [[Browning BDA]]. There is also the pistol that only the grip is seen sticking out of his waist band in S01E04, which I think is a different pistol. One of the only features that you can make out on this pistol is that fact that it has a prominent beavertail/grip spur at the back which is does not match the BDA or BDM. Hammer is wrong for the Hi-Power, my best guess would be a CZ-75 from the relationship between the hammer and the grip spur but it is not possible to tell from this pic. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:57, 9 March 2012 (CST)

== GUN SENSE ==

Their for sure would tons of M4'S and possibly m16a4's lying around in the streets of Atlanta with moer Berettas. Why does no one go for one and why do they not ask jenner for some. Would an assault rifle not be good to kill hordes of undead? Also why did rick not get on the .50 on the tank and take out some before. Even when I see police cars don't they raid them. The only time I have seen anyone do that is when Shane and Otis use the flares from the cruiser to distract the walkers..And yes I know it is a scripted show.
------
Don't forget that the show starts a while after the zombies take over so any M4s,M16s, etc would have already been scooped up from the Atlanta streets, at least the ones people could get before the city was overrun. And they didn't ask Jenner for any because an assault rifle is actually quite cumbersome and the ammo could weigh them down even more then they already are. Also it would be pretty hard to find any ammunition for M4s/M16s as that doesn't seem to be a commonly used weapon in this show beyond the military. They don't search cop cars because as I stated, the show starts a while after the initial overrunning of cities so if people had any brains, they would have raided cop cars a long time ago. As for the Beretta statement, it seems like that is more of a military firearm as well and not a police weapon, plus they can't search every single corpse they find in the city. As to the .50 cal on the tank, notice how fast the zombies crawled on top of the tank? Rick would never have lasted, plus I don't believe there was any .50 ammo in the tank, nor in the gun. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:14, 8 March 2012 (CST)

- -

Sorry I'm new at posting on here. Good point I forgot it starts 2 week after the outbreak. But I was thinking if Otis and Shane both had automatics it may have ended differently. Also we do Rick's beretta again with Shane and Andrea in the housing developments she has it no and perfers it to her ladysmith. And as to the .50cal their was one zombie when he came out to escape he shoveled it in the face. The .50 just is a bad idea in my opinion caue its one loud mother. Also I don't understand why people carry bolt actions around, look what happend to Dale. Imagine how smooth the show would run if everyone had silenced weapons. One more thing, is anyone else hoping for the variety of guns to switch up? We know that the kid's camp has 30 men+(jude,jury,executioner)so assuming Rick's group comes up on top cause the shows been renewed for season 3. Will they get some real artiliery? (User:n Gunfan1996)

:If I remember in the first episode, Rick did bump into a tank and I coulda sworn I saw ammo in that 50 cal, but it is a bit heavy for one to carry. An Assault Rifle plus ammo is not heavy at all. A shotgun with ammo is actually more heavy and cumbersome to carry and limited range 12:46, 9 March 2012 (CST)

:There was no ammo in the tank gun.

[[Image:WalkingDead-BrowningM2HB 02.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A closeup of the mounting; note that the mounting is designed for the L7 GPMG, an FN MAG derivative, and the fake M2 simply sits on top of it. Compare to the real M2 in the foreground of the shot above.]]

:Besides, Rick was on horseback. What's he going to do, mount the .50 on the head of his horse? And it's also worth noting that he didn't have any weapons that used that ammo. A belt of .50 would be dead weight (no pun intended). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:37, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

Still dunno why Rick uses a Python though, those .357 rounds are LOUD.
Personally, I hoped someone had scooped the Doc's M4 up on the way out of the CDC, oh well....
--[[User:Geckcgt|Geckcgt]] 01:14, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

== WOW!!!!!!! AWESOME ENDING (SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!) ==

I couln' resist saying how awesome i thought S02: E12 was. That was the way to kill off Shane. Plus with the cool remix of the theme song playing as you see an army of walkers walk out onto the field. Just saying, I think Hershel or Maggie will die in the season finale. For those who missed it, here's a link: http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/talked-about-scene-episode-212-the-walking-dead-shanes-last-stand --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 14:51, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

Yep pretty good. I knew that eventually Shane was going. If I remember the comic book correctly it was Carl who killed Shane when he was going to kill rick and then Rick finished him off when he came back as a walker. So in the television show they reversed that. Liked the ending. I wonder if next season they will deal with the Governor and the Prison? --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:30, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:If you search for news of the show, te actor has already been cast, looking forward to the next season.--[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 17:14, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:The Governor has indeed been cast and no it is not Merle. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:55, 12 March 2012 (CDT) [[http://screenrant.com/david-morrissey-governor-the-walking-dead-yman-156371/]]

Nothing you guys said makes any sense because i don't read comics. Don't tell me though. I'm going to read the comics after the series finally ends. I know a friend with the complete collection who sai he is going to sell it along with DVD copies when they all come out. I WANT THAT!!!!! Check on ebay after the series comes to an end.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 18:56, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

All I'm wondering is why did they make it so all you have to do is die to become a zombie instead of being bitten/scratched? Do they explain this as well? [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 10:00, 13 March 2012

:Almost every zombie story I've ever read, movie I've ever seen, or game I've ever played has it the same way as The Walking Dead TV series and comic book has had it - When a person dies for any reason, that same person later becomes a zombie, unless their brain has been damaged or destroyed first. So far, no explanation has been given as to exactly how this happens. My guess would be that it's all due to an airborne virus. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:56, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

Can anyone identify the knife Rick used to finally put Shane down? Was it one of the Gerbers seen frequently throughout this season, or something else? I couldn't get a close enough look.--[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:35, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:I paused S02/Ep12 at the 39:09 mark. That was where I could get the best look at this knife. As best I can tell, Rick used a Gerber DMF folder on Shane. I think Rick has had that same knife all throughout Season 2. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 13:19, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

I also wanted to know about a knife from episode 10 of season 2 (18 Miles Out). The knife in question is the one that Rick leaves for Randall to use. I don't know if it can be seen any better in any other episode but I know that Randall does eventually use it and I think I remember a few semi-close up shots of it.

:Yes, there are a few close-up shots of the knife Randall uses in Episode 10 of Season 2. It appears to be a sheath knife without any serrations on the blade, finger grooves on the grip, and a clip point. I checked the official Gerber website, but I was unable to see any knife pictured there which resembled this one. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 19:20, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

On the actual subject of the firearms used in the finale, I think Lori uses the Charter Arms Pug that Carl had earlier in the season. Daryl used a revolver I couldn't ID.... Looked like a .38 of some kind with a 4 or 5 inch barrel, but I'm not sure. [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 22:02, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

To add to that, Glenn was seen using Shane's Mossberg with the M4-style stock in the finale. (Shane no longer needed it.)
Hershel was also seen using, what I believe is the Remington 870 Wingmaster used by Dayrl in "Vatos"

The revolver Daryl used, if it was Dale's revolver i think it is a colt of some kind, although I cannot get a good look, in one of the earlier episodes you can see the grip under Dale's shirt, and it looks like there is a Colt medallion near the top, not sure though.--[[User:Awaler32|Awaler32]] 09:42, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

== Logo on Carl's shirt ==
This is way off topic for IMFDB, but the logo on Carl's shirt in the episode "Better Angels", a black bear paw in front of a red atom, I know I've seen it elsewhere but I can't place it. At first I thought it was the old Blackwater logo, but the BW logo is a black bear paw in a red scope crosshair. Does anyone recognize it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:13, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

:The logo on Carl's shirt is for "Science Dog" - another comic book by the creator of TWD, Robert Kirkman. The comic book version of Carl has this same exact logo on his shirt too. Adding this level of detail to Carl's wardrobe in the TV series was a nice touch, I would say. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 07:01, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

== The guns of the survivors ==
Way back in episode one of the series we see Rick load up all of the available weapons from the precinct's armory for his journey to Atlanta. And while we've had about 18 episodes to ask the question we really haven't yet. If they weapons came from the police armory why do a good portion of the long guns appear to be hunting firearms? The Browning BAR, the Remington 700, the Remington 870 and such look out of place in the right context.

- Well, I think that the older wooden-furniture Remington 870 and the Remington 700 can be explained, as it is a small, rural County Sheriff's Office in Georgia. Before the widespread distribution of tactical sniper rifles, M16's and M4's across America's police departments, police were using other weapons, such as the Remington 700 and the Winchester Model 70 for that purpose. Also, we see Rick gathering up the weapons AFTER the outbreak. The Sheriff's officers could have grabbed the new firearms and left the older ones, which would still be in the armory for storage and reserve purposes. If the story was broadened, it would probably show the other Sheriff's deputy's taking tactical rifles and carbines to employ them in the field. [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]]

:One thing that always struck me as "unrealistic" about TWD has been the types and and amounts of guns depicted in seasons 1 and 2, along with the feelings of some of the characters toward guns. The setting for this show all along has been in Georgia, which in real life is a "red" pro-gun southern state with a longtime history of private gun ownership among a large percentage of the population. So far on TWD however, the way in which guns have been depicted seems somewhat more as if the show's setting has been in a "blue" anti-gun northeastern state like New Jersey!

:In real-life Georgia, I have no doubt that there are many civilians who own at least one semi-automatic rifle chambered for a military cartridge and a few high-capacity magazines for it, and that number probably increased by even more after Obama got elected in 2008. Bearing this in mind, I can't see why there would not have been at least a few people in that survivor's camp outside Atlanta during season 1 armed with something more than just hunting firearms and handguns. The two "redneck" characters in season 1 - Merle and Daryl - they would have both had tactical-type rifles and hidden caches of ammunition for them if it had been up to me. Rednecks in real life have been stockpiling ammunition ever since Obama got elected. Plus, seasons 1 and 2 have had two former cops in the group - Rick and Shane - but neither one of them have ever seen the need to acquire better firepower. There were M4's and other weapons scattered all around the outside of the CDC in season 1, but nobody thought to pick any of them up. If I had been Rick, I would have been constantly telling everybody else in the group all throughout seasons 1 and 2 to keep gathering up guns and ammunition whenever possible. That one black bag Rick loaded up at the police station's armory in the first episode of season 1 could not possibly have held enough ammunition to last all the way to the end of season 2.

:Then there were the anti-gun sentiments among some members in the group - Lori in season 1 and 2, and Hershel in season 2. Lori's objections to her son Carl learning how to shoot struck me as being a bit odd. Lori is supposed to be a housewife from a small town in the South who is married to a cop, not a soccer mom with a career from a liberal anti-gun upbringing. Being that Carl is the son of a southern small town cop, I think it would have been more realistic if he had already learned a few things about shooting from his dad Rick long before the outbreak. Hershel's attitude towards guns struck me as being most odd. Hershel is supposed to be a cattle rancher from rural Georgia, so when he said that he did want his property to become an "armed camp" from the group carrying guns around, I was shaking my head by then. Cattle ranchers in real life often have to keep a gun handy to kill coyotes and other pests. I doubt that coyotes would stay away from a farm or ranch with livestock on it after a zombie apocalypse starts. I would have to say that Hershel seemed to redeem himself later in season 2 when he said that he knew how to shoot, although he did not like to. In the season 2 finale however, Hershel seemed to be very much into showing off his shooting skills. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:43, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::I just want to say a couple of things about this rant. First, you are being very stereotypical about the South, thinking that everyone is a gun-toting redneck. I can speak from experience because I am from the most anti-gun state in the country, Massachusetts, I think I can guarantee that there are at least a few people living in the South who don't like firearms. Like I said, I am from Massachusetts, but I like guns, unlike most of the state and most of the Northeast for that matter, except New Hampshire of course. Also, the show takes place a few weeks after the zombie outbreak, most of the people with the military caliber firearms have probably long since left and moved to places they would think was safer. About Rick teaching Carl to shoot guns, he is a cop, so maybe he has seen people get badly hurt by guns, so he didn't want anything to happen to Carl. Hershel knows how to shoot pretty well. I am guessing by his hate for guns, he probably faced some kind of horrible incident in the past that resulted from him using a gun. Again, this is just speculation. In the season 2 finale, Hershel showed his shooting skills because by this time, his outlook on the undead had completely changed. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:01, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::We love our guns up here in New Hampshire! Rick teaching Carl about guns is a good thing and something that is needed. He'll be needing to use that gun more considering how the world has become with the Zombies. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:57, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::::Oh no, I completely agree with teaching Carl to use guns after the zombie outbreak, but I mean before the outbreak maybe Rick didn't have any motivation to teach his son to use guns, that's all. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:36, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::SmithandWesson36, have you been to the South much? I have. I have been to most of the southern states myself, and not just to the large cities and tourist spots, either. I also live in a somewhat rural part of Pennsylvania - it's had some population growth over the last 15 years. Anyway, the point I was trying to make above is that these days, in the "red states" of the South and other rural areas, there are more tactical type rifles in the hands of "plain folks" civilians than ever before. It's more than some people may even realize or want to admit, and the buyers are not necessarily ones who fit the "redneck" mold. Case in point: Not long after Obama was elected in 2008, the biggest gun shop in my area was packed every time I went in to browse. The gun shop's employees were often telling me back then that they could not keep up with the demand for semi-auto rifles chambered in .223 Remington. I made some small talk there once with a single mom, who seemed articulate enough, not a redneck type, etc. She was with her teenage son - they were there to buy her first gun. She bought a Yugo SKS rifle. (I think she wanted to buy an AR type rifle at first, but the SKS was much cheaper.) Also in 2008, I went to several parts of North Carolina at different times that year. I noticed that even the small pawn shops in the suburban "Research Triangle" area of NC had at least one or two AK type rifles. Plus, every time I have been to either of the two shooting ranges that I regularly go to, there has always been at least one person there shooting his or her own AR type rifle. Based upon my own personal experiences such as these, this is part of the reason why wrote what I did above. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 01:11, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Originally this started out as a discussion about why a police precinct would have hunting firearms in the armory. I don't really know how we got into the portrayal of red state/blue state issues in the show and about who personally owns what and why as opposed to something else.

As to the anti-gun bias on the show, I believe that it's to some degree understandable when considering everything. Rick and Shane are police officers, their training dictates that firearms not in the hands of fellow officers are a threat to their safety. Even if the dead have started walking that training is still with them and they're going to be relying on what they know. Hershel's stance is understandable because he sees the Walkers as sick people in need of help, not open slaughter like what was possibly being shown on the news reports. He understands that the survivors don't see things his way and would rather shoot a Walker rather than help it and he wants to prevent that...at least until after Shane opens his eyes to the truth. Lori is a mother and worries about the safety of her son, possibly because so many kids get shot and killed each year and was afraid of contributing to that. It's also possible she's opposed to the idea of Carl learning to shoot because it doesn't jive with her hopes of the world returning to what is used to be when there was order and safety. It's possible she views the idea of her child growing up cold and hard is just another nail in the coffin of the world having any sort of order to it again and she doesn't want to be swinging that hammer. --[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

:Thank you, Ballistics_Expert, that's exactly what I was trying to say. I wasn't arguing anything about red state/blue state, I'm simply stating that not everyone single person in the South loves guns and some are opposed to them. I didn't mean anything political by that, I just meant that anywhere you go, there will be people who disagree with the common concensus of the area. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:37, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

...and back to the subject...reason would lead one to believe the other cops already took the duty guns at the begining and all that was left was confiscated guns left in the evidence locker or something.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 14:44, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:Plausible, considering Shane's M4-stocked Mossy sort of stands out from the rest of the group's guns. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:29, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

::I don't know about anyone else here, but my experience with firearms and viewing preferences with firearms-related TV shows is much more based in real life than in make-believe. I shoot my semi-auto tactical rifles and 1911 pistols on a regular basis and I know many other people who do likewise. I have been to gun shops, gun shows, and gun ranges all over this country. TWD is the only fictional TV show that I am into these days - all the other ones I watch are the "reality" shows on History Channel, Discovery, NatGeo, etc. ("Sons of Guns"/"Doomsday Preppers"/"American Guns"/"Top Shot" - just to name a few.) If you watch shows like these, have been to the South as often as I have been, have been around many gunners like I have, and have seen what I have seen, you probably also would have been a bit disappointed to see how nobody in season 1 of the TWD already had at least one modern semi-auto tactical carbine, or even an older military surplus rifle such the M1 Garand or the SKS. I have already tried to point out how it is actually quite common in real life for civilians in "red" states like Georgia to own semi-auto rifles such as these, and it's not just the hardcore "redneck" types who own them now - it's more like people from all walks of life instead. As a matter of fact, due to an overwhelming demand from the civilian market, Sturm Ruger, America's largest gun maker, actually had to halt production temporarily just this week. Bearing all of this in mind, this is why I say that it should not have even mattered if Rick and Shane's hometown police station's armory had already been looted of all the tactical carbines. As for some people in the South being anti-gun/non-gun-owners, sure, they exist, but they are nowhere as nearly numerous as the anti-gunners/non-gun-owners are in a "blue" state up North like New Jersey, and these are exactly the types of people who are mostly likely going to die first and die the most in a widespread zombie outbreak, simply because they will be totally unarmed before an outbreak begins. The percentage of lawful gun owners in most of the "red" states is 50% or greater. In most of the "blue" states, the percentage of lawful gun owners is as low as 10%.

::Now, one thing that did strike me as "realistic" about the depiction of "blue" states in TWD were the characters of Dave and Tony in the "Nebraska" episode. Both of them seemed to me as being very much "blue" state guys - it was as if they were two lost cast members of the "Jersey Shore" show or something. (Could you imagine having to rely on people like them during a zombie outbreak? Would you want "Snooki" or "the situation" in your survivor group?) What I mean by this is that Dave and Tony both acted like cocky jerks with chips on their shoulders. Dave actually did mention something about meeting Tony along Route 95 outside of Philadelphia, which is also rather close to the Jersey Shore for those of you who did not know this. Much like a great many of the "blue" state folks, neither Dave nor Tony were likely gun owners, or had had any firearms training prior to the zombie outbreak. Dave actually mentioned that he got his SIG pistol off a dead cop. For all we know, Dave was the one who killed that cop, in cold blood, no less. Tony had a sawn-off Mossberg HS12 - he was probably the one who cut the stock on it down, too. If that is what happened, then it just goes to show how clueless Tony was about guns in general. Just about everything Dave and Tony said and did in the "Nebraska" episode was ignorant, rude, and rubbed me the wrong way. How Rick handled Dave and Tony was one of the best decisions he made during all of season 2 as far as I am concerned. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 20:41, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Okay, I'm sorry, but I am still confused about why you keep bringing up "blue states" and "red states," all I am trying to say is that maybe all the modern, military caliber weapon wielding people left with their weapons to find better shelters out of a small town with no protection. I don't get what you mean by having people from the Jersey Shore as survivors in your group, I have a friend with relatives from the Jersey Shore who are not orange-skinned Italians. You also say that Dave and Tony are ignorant and rude because they come from a "blue" state? I'm sorry, but you are rudely stereotyping people, which has nothing to do with what this discussion is about. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:26, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Anyway, getting back to the original topic,there is an Android Walking Dead game made by AMC and explains the first events of the outbreak right after Rick got shot, all the way up to Shane heading to the hospital to save Rick. According to the game, there were only three officers at the station when the first zombies attacked, Shane, Leon, and someone named Don. Judging by the fact that there are times when only three officers are at the station, there are probably not too many officers in this small town. I think that the police force of this town might just have been too small for it to have the budget to buy tactical rifles and they didn't really have the need for more firepower than hunting firearms. How much crime can a tiny town have, right? This is obviously just speculation, but it is my opinion. Although the real reason for their weapons could just be that a zombie show would be boring if the survivors were untouchable because they had military-grade firepower and tons and tons of ammo. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:06, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Police Armory ==

Hello everybody. Pretty spirited discussion going on above. Okay first of all (don't know how applicable this is, but here goes) I'm a police officer. October 12, 2012 will make twelve years for me. I'm also in Idaho which is in the Northwest, but very much a Red State. My department has 63 sworn officers (full-time) and eight reserve officers. I think. Our city is closing in on 50,000 residents.

Our swat team is called TRT (Tactical Response Team). We have two snipers. Both are equipped with Remington 700 rifles in .308. The rifles have 18" heavy barrels, synthetic sticks, scopes, bipods ect. All the gee-whiz tactical stuff. The other TRT members are equipped with Colt AR-15 carbines (16" barrel) and all the various accoutrements that have come to be assocaited with the AR-15 platform in the past decade. TRT officers are issued their rifles by the department.

Other offcers who wish to carry an AR-15 have to purchase the rifle out of their own pocket and attend a week long class. They have to qualify with the rifle at the end of the week if they hope to carry the rifle. The department supplies forty rounds for the rifle.

If you don't want to purchase a rifle you can carry a Remington 870 Police shotgun (supplied by the department) in 12 gauge, but it isn't mandatory.

We are issued either a [[Glock 21]] (45acp) or a [[Glock 19]] (9mm) if the 21 is too large and so on. I carry the [[Glock 19]] and I am also authorized to carry the [[Glock 26]] and the [[Smith & Wesson Model 36 / 38#Smith & Wesson Model 38/49|Smith & Wesson Model 49 Bodyguard]] as my backups and off duty pieces.

Only a couple years before I joined my department the TRT officers were carrying the [[Ruger Mini-14]] with the wooden stock and the [[Remington 870]] shotgun - also with the wooden stock. There was just one sniper and he carried the [[Savage 10/110 Series Rifles|Savage 110]] in .243 also outfitted with a wooden stock.

Officers were allowed to carry whatever type of semi-auto handgun they wanted as long as it was in 9mm, 40S&W or 45 acp. We didn't go to issuing Glocks until 2006.

So as you see it only been over the past fifteen years (more or less) that my department has gotten "modern". I can guarantee that there are many smaller departments out there (in the U.S.) that are still playing catch-up. So the police gun vault that we see in the first episode isn't that difficult to believe in. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:41, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

==Herschel's Shotgun==
is it just me or did herschel's shotgun have like unlimited ammo, cause he was just laying those shells into the zombies like a boss

:Yeah, I was thinking that too, when I watched the episode. I think he reloaded maybe once, and was able to get off upwards of 20 shells out of that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:08, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

::Yep. Evidently I wasn't around when the local Cabelas was selling the special Remington 870 "Hollywood" configuration. Darn it. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:16, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Herschel's SIG ==

Is it just me or does it look a tad too short to be a P226? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 00:11, 29 March 2012 (CDT)
:It also has a rounded trigger guard which makes it a P228/ --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:46, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

==Mossberg HS12==
Uh, are there ANY other screencaps of this gun? The one we have does NOT prove that it is a Mossberg HS12 on its' own. I'm sure that there are other screenshots available (I don't work on this page so I count on others to do it). But right now it is a vague and nondistinct image and thus a new gun page for the Mossberg HS12 was created just for this one entry. We need to verify that this gun ID is correct. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:55, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Season 3 Mystery suppressed Gun ==

Just found this image online. It's apparently a season 3 sneak peek snapshot. What is Rick holding? Almost looks like a two tone glock with a stielhandgranate taped to it, stick pointing towards us.... but its obviously not=P
http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/4/46/Rick.JPG
:Definitely looks like a glock. The can looks like a big Mag-lite to me. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] 21:33, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

::I'm making an assumption, but it's safe to say it's the same Glock 17 he used in the season 2 finale. Seems like he will be using this pistol along with his Colt Python a lot next season. The suppressor was a pleasant surprise. Given the situation in the show, it's probably just a crude, homemade suppressor made with whatever materials he could scrounge.

I think it might be one of the Russian PBS suppressors, I have to agree with ^ it is good to see a suppressor for once when facing zombies.[[User:Recon42|Recon42]]

The suppressor looks like the one that you see on a mac-10 in desperado image and the silencer in that image looks similar.[[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

For sure it's a Glock, however I was thinking it was a crude homemade suppressor, [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 19:28, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

Remember Rick has T Dog's glock(shane hid his then took t dog's and rick took it when he killed shane) and the suppressor does look like a mac 10 suppressor bt it is likely homemade. --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 08:50, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

I think it is a home-made suppressor made from a [http://www.maglite.com/D_Cell_LED.asp Maglite 2 D-cell torch] (or maybe the 3 cell is hard to tell from that shot). The tube with a hole drilled in the base cap alternating between fabric packing and empty chambers would probably kind of work as a suppressor, hard bit would be somehow attaching the lamp end to the muzzle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:59, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

On the talking dead, the producers state it is a flashlight as a makeshift suppressor --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 11:11, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== First look at David Morrissey ==

First picture of David Morrissey as the Governor is up, he'll be the chief antagonist for some time to come on the show. One of his men in the background is holding something in his hand over his shoulder...can anyone make it out?

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=91132

Too blurry, but my first thought was some form of speargun:
http://i.pgcdn.com/pi/1/87/67/18767193_260.jpg
Then again, I just got back from Cancun so I got fishing on the mind =P
--[[User:Geckcgt|Geckcgt]] 01:02, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

The Governor appears to carry a silver/nickel semi-automatic, possibly a 1911 variant, with black grips in a cross draw holster. Looking forward to more detailed screencaps. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 12:12, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== Season 3 ==

Season 3 trailer is up, lots of footage to comb through! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbcXvotzU2k

Im willing to screencap it but its to low quality for me. Maybe someone else can [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 09:09, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

Merle is back. Hopefully this season will have a bit more zip than Season 2. With the exception of the last couple episodes S2 was a little on the slow side. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 09:14, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

In the trailer I can see a helicopter from the UH-1 series along with an MG that I could not ID due to the low quality also the prison had some firearms available inside, Rick used a used a silenced handgun that may be a Glock. Also what kind of firearms would be availible to prison guards anyways? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I uploaded some caps and put them on the page. [[User:theman838|theman838]]

The handgun used by Rick is some kind of Glock, yeah (there was a large poster of Rick holding it in the background on The Talking Dead last week), but they said the "silencer", prop-wise, is actually a flashlight. lol [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:17, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

Merle's bayonet is a WWII M1 Bayonet my grandfather gave me his when he past.

Should we put the armorer showing an m4a1 and at4 on talking dead on the page for behind the scenes ?

== Unknown weapons ==

Please, I know that this is a discussion about T.W.D tv series but can someone add the gas grenade of Hell Of The Living Dead film? I request this because this is a zombie film/tv discussion!

:No, this is a discussion about TWD, not a general zombie genre discussion. If you have anything to say about ''[[Hell of the Living Dead]]'', you might try putting it on the talk page for that film. Also, there's no need to double post. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:37, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

== Page to crowded for another season ==

I think we should create a new page for season 3 when in comes out for new shots of the guns do to the fact this page already has 2 seasons on it and a third would make it too crowded.--[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] 16:24, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:Too long you say? [[The Unit]] and [[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3]] didn't seem too bad, i think its more about cleaning it up rather than how many articles, such as limiting 3-4 photos per Firearm (two screens and one of the Firearm) rather than the random stack at the moment (The Python currently has 10 photos). [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 15:55, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

::"Modern Warfare 3" is one game so it can't really be split up into anything, and "The Unit" is one of the early pages on here that was finished before splitting into seasons become a thing. Ideally it would be split, but it is a big job requiring someone to pretty much re-watch the whole thing to verify what guns are in what seasons and to get more caps. Personally I wouldn't split this yet, would wait and see how many different guns are in season 3. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:31, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:::Maybe i shouldn't delete all the seasons of the unit just yet off my HDD, haha. is there anything other than [[Burn Notice]] that's been split? (i haven't been back on here in a few months.) [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 14:11, 26 September 2012 (EDT)

Talk:The Walking Dead (TV Series)

2012-09-25T19:58:22Z

Scarecrow: /* Page to crowded for another season */

==OTHER==
That's Norman Reedus with the crossbow. He plays Daryl Dixon, who was not in the actual comic that I can recall. I like that though, he's a cool actor. I'm also a little bummed that they didn't use the guns drawn in the comics. Rick uses a HK mk.23. For those of you who might think that it's impossible to tell that from the comic the artist wrote HK MK.23 on the barrel. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I read some where that the Walker are attracted to loud noises. that might be why he is carrying a crossbow

It is smart to use a crossbow; because it saves on bullets and in most all undead literature and movies the undead always react and swarm when they hear a gunshot. Very good show, have never read the comic but look forward to.-GoshMr.Peabody

It's pretty amazing. I recommend buying the trade paperbacks. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Not only does a crossbow save on ammo and is silent, crossbow bolts can be retrieved and reused repeatedly before they bend, dull, break, or otherwise can't be used any longer. In effect, Daryl has essentially a near-infinite source of ammunition. As for Rick, I think the Python suits him better. It has personality, the Mark 23... not so much. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:43, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==Whoa==
I loved the comic, when the hell did it get a tv show?

The idea was revealed a while ago. It comes out on Halloween. -SasquatchJim

honestly , its like two hours till the show ,i cant wait. simmons 8492

Well it kept my interest. I'll watch it again next week to see if it can maintain the momentum.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

honestly it took some time to realy get things going , but now hes in a populated zone with other survivers . and if i was him id start that tank up! simmons 8492

I coulda sworn the 50 on that tank was still loaded with ammo and in the next scene, it had no ammo [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Just watched it again. The .50 on the tank doesn't appear to be loaded, but there's another one in a sandbag fort that is, in the foreground as he goes by. -IGemini 04:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

iv watched it from the start and i have to say its great simmons 8492

== Crappy dialogue ==

In the trailer, one of the cops told the other to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off. First off, the man he was talking to, had a Glock, so no safety. And since he's a trained cop, ready to open fire on a suspect that's hostile, why wouldn't he have a round in the chamber and his gun ready to go? That line just threw me off [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, just watched it. Its brilliant, easily as good as the comic. The 'crappy dialogue above does jar a little tho. Hes telling him to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off as it is implied the officer in question is a bit useless, however after doing a brass check the officer in question then presses down on the slide release (even tho the slide is forward) as if to pretend it is the saftey catch. Morgan has a 5 shot snub revolver (which someone else will have to identify as im not too good with em). Rick pull a 92fs (standing in for an m9) from a dead soldiers shoulder holster at the end of the episode, and i'm fairly sure the SIG is a tutone P228 or 229 not a P239 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe Basset is so damn useless that he hasn't even figured out that Glocks don't come with manual safeties... --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:28, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing about the thing with the safety is that you can hear the sound of a safety being click off.--[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 04:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Remember that the dialogue was written long before it was decided the cop would be holding a Glock(unless the writer is Michael Mann). So maybe the round in the chamber thing may have been unwarranted, but maybe he was a rookie, he did seem sort of skittish. Regardless, it's unfair to call ''that'' crappy dialogue. I think you're letting your knowledge of guns get in the way of enjoying good stories.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 04:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Dont know if its worth noting, but the cop he tells that too, is actually, the first zombie he ends up shooting, after leaving the police station. Rick commented he was careless and dumb, so reminding him, makes sense.

And, of course, Rick committed a cardinal sin; he referred to a magazine as a clip :P -SasquatchJim

I'm not surprised, Sasqatch. The cop I talked to called his Glock 17 a "Glock 9". I'm sure he would have said clip to. Not all cops are into guns. Haha

:He also could have meant "Glock 9mm", you know, since "9" is common shorthand for 9mm. When has anyone referred to .45 ACP as "11.43mm"? Hell, I once had a conversation with a Korean War vet about 1911s and when I referred to the cartridge by its dimensions, he had a dumbfounded look on his face and "corrected" me, telling me that the 1911A1 was "a 45, not no 11-something". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:51, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==SIG P239==

[[Image:WalkingDead-SIGP239.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|A chase suspect emerges from the wrecked car firing a two-tone SIG P239 at police.]]

This doesn't look like a P239 to me; more like a P226 or P228. It's too big, and it has nickel controls (which the two-tone P239s don't have). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:P228 because of the slide length. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Remember, on low resolution screencaps like the ones I had to use, feel free to correct the Gun IDs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::: Watching the scene I agree that it is somewhat larger. Sounds fine to me - I'll change it. The first episode was pretty good. I'm adding a Beretta 92FS (M9) entry - Grimes indeed takes one off a 'dead' soldier inside the Abrams tank he gets into, as noted by the above section. Also, I never did get a good glance at the snub revolver, though I'm fairly certain it's a S&W. They're replaying the show so I'll keep an eye for it, and some of the other guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

==Spoiler Comment and Morgan's Revolver==
Its nice to see the page updated but arn't some of the descriptions (mainly the colt python) a bit spoilerific for anyone who hasn't watched it yet? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Whoa, yes they are, I sure as hell didn't add those. :b I'll reword them somewhat. Also! The revolver Morgan uses is a Snub S&W Model 66, I can almost guarantee it. Bah, wish I could get screencaps. Still, I'll add that as well. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure its a 66? I remember it having a 5 round cylinder --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I grabbed this off my skyplus box so sorry bout the quality [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2i700fm.jpg[/IMG] Any use, its definatly a 5 shot--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: I could have ''sworn'' it was a S&W. But it's definitely not a Model 66, since there's no rear adj. sights, nor of course a 6-shot cylinder. But Smith snubbie J-frames (5-shot) all have flat 'bull-nose' ejector rod shrouds, not curved. Bah, now I'm kinda stumped. My best guess at this point would probably be a [[Ruger SP101]]. Convert that image there to JPG and upload it on the site. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::Looks like it could also be either the [[Taurus Model 617]] or possibly a stainless steel [[Taurus Model 85]]. Biu it is difficult.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

From the barrel it looks like an early Taurus Model 85 in stainless or nickel plated. It was a five shot cylinder definitely.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: After posting I did consider it being a Taurus, many of them are awfully S&W looking to begin with. I doubt it's a 617 but it easily could be an 85. Hell, could be anything for all I know at this point. I guess it'll just be another 'unidentified' until we get more/better screencaps. I'll modify the S&W 66 entry I posted and just call it un-ID'd snub revolver, noting the 5-shot capacity and stating the possible choices. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I am almost certain it is actually a Ruger SP101, two inch model. No other snubbie, as far as I know, has the upper rear of the frame shaped into a rear sight notch like the SP101, as both of those Taurus models just lack rear sights - you can check the Taurus website as both models lack a "rear sight" category under specifications. Also, if you check out the behind the scenes vid [http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/?bclid=625294007001&bcpid=111717822001&bctid=628200502001 here], there is a pretty decent side shot of the revolver. The general shape is very close to a SP101, and even from the front, the lines on Morgan's triggerguard and barrel are cut much closer semi-melted look on the SP than the very sharp ones on a Taurus oR S&W.

All said, the easiest way to tell would be if they showed the damned cylinder release at some point. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 07:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC) (Corrected typo --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 02:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

: It's not an SP101. The recoil shield shown is a simple traditional shape, not the bulkier contours Rugers have in that part of the frame. Also, the ejector rod shroud is cut back more sharply from the muzzle, and the revolver in the show seems to lack the small hole on the front of the frame for the front crane lock. [[User:Rule .303|Rule .303]] 14:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Judging by the screens uploaded I'd say definately not a 617, 617 is a 7-shot, also can't see a ported barrel. Still think it's a Taurus though. [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 09:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

If you watch the Making of the Walking dead Season 1 it shows the side of the revolver.. Looks exactly like the Ruger SP101 from Breaking Bad. I'm guessing its the same prop. (Just like I think the RV is. )

: It's definately not a Ruger SP101. As to the comment of the SP101 being unique with regards to the rear notch site. Nope. All snubbies have that. I have both the Taurus 85 (old shape) and the Taurus 85 Stainless. Looks much more like that due to the unique underlug on the revolver. Also look at the SP101's front. http://www.dayattherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sp101target8.jpg Definately not what we are seeing in these screen captures. [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 07:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It appears to be a Taurus 405 to me. Looks large-bored, probably .40S&W so that would match the 405. The front sight is tiny from that back angle which also matches the 405, the cylinder backing plate is the same etc. krispic 21:36 Feb 22 2012

== What kind of tank was that? ==

Its oviously a stand-in for an M-1 but I'm not sure what it is. I'm thinking possibly a Chieftain, but I'm not sure. Also, note that a real M-1 woulnd't have worked for the scene since it lacks the floor escape hatch.

-AC.

:I'm also reasonably certain the 82nd Airborne Division doesn't have tanks in their TO&E, yet the (un)dead soldier in the tank had an 82nd patch on his left shoulder. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:32, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Well i would imagine that in the chaos of the zombie apocalypse lots of soldiers ended up with other units doin jobs they aren't really trained for.

Actually smaller units are frequently attached (I believe the Brits call it seconded) to other units for mission purposes. Some armor battalions spent the whole campaign in France (WW II, 1944-1945) being attached to various infantry units - to include the airborne. After all the elements of the 9th and 10th armor divisions that were in Bastogne during the siege fell under the 101st Airborne for the duration of that battle. Funny how the airborne mafia always seems to forget about all the ''other'' troops that fought in that battle. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:17, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

At this point I'm not sure, but I do suspect it's the same tank that shows up in ''[[Zombieland]]''. Both shows are filmed in Georgia and the voice-over commentary on ''Zombieland'' states that the tank is owned by a private collector.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Definately a Chieftain.

: I concur, Chieftains are often used (mocked-up) as stand-ins for Abrams tanks. I also noticed the bottom escape hatch, which as far as I can recall, indeed isn't on an actual Abrams. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

''Other comments posted on main page-''

(Perhaps it is just me, but the Abrams featured in this appears to be a mocked up British Chieftain Tank, I didn't get a good look at the tank but it didn't seem to be a genuine Abrams, although it could simply be an older pattern M1 without the TUSK upgrade, reactive armor and the more apparent loaders hatch. Yet that would not explain the escape hatch.- Doc345)

Older M1s didn't look that diffrent, from the later ones, aside from the most recent upgardes.

Also, the angle of the frontal turret armor is wrong to be an M1.

I think this may be the same tank which appeared in, among other series, Jericho. The vehicle, if I remember correctly, is built on an old Centurion chasis to resemble an Abrams with some obvious differences. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

On a random note, where was a Striker seen in the episode? It says on the page that there was one with a fifty cal on it, but aside from the tank, the only other military vehicles I saw where some HMMWVs, what looked like a deuce, and a half, and some abandone Hueys.

Intrestingly, in the trailor, the one Rick first sees after leaving the hospital lacked a rotor blade making me think it was edited in post-production. Also, the one off to Ricks left appears to still be lacking one.

-AC

at the begging seen when the main cerictor walkes out of the hospital he sees a ebandoned military equpent you can see a Stryker IFV --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 21:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
heres a picture
[[Image:The walking dead.png]]

I can say without a doubt that the 'M1' ''is'' a Chieftain, not a Centurion. The long sloping frontal 'nose' armour, the front idler wheel and the lockers/storage bins are features of the Chieftain, not the Centurion. Not too sure about the 'escape hatch' though. I wonder if this is the same 'M1' that appears in the 2010 remake of Red Dawn? It looks the same to me. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

*Naw, that one they've actually made some modifications to like building up the hull and turret to be more Abrams-like and putting an M1-style bulge over the cylindrical fume extractor. This is just a Chieftain with a fake M2 awkwardly perched on top of the hatch weapon mounting. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:07, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

== Things I noticed ==

Did anybody else notice that when Morgan cocked the hammer back on his gun and threatened to shoot Grimes if he didn't talk, the cylinder didn't advance to the next chamber like it should?

And what about Grimes' personal arsenal in his backpack? Is it safe to assume that rubber/resin mockups? He was getting bounced pretty hard by that horse and the guns kept bumping him in the back. That's at least 40 pounds of gear to be carrying around.

More than safe to assume that. Most of them even appeared to have solid barrels. Probably rubber.--[[Special:Contributions/99.48.50.70|99.48.50.70]] 04:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The cylinder did rotate, I remembered that happening when I watched the scene. As far as the bag -o- guns, I have no idea. If they were all rubber, they were modeled after some hard to find shotgun configurations and looked very real. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 20:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Grimes in episode 3 his duffle bag was holding six shotguns, two "high powered" rifles, a dozen handguns, and 700 rounds of assorted ammo. That's easily 80-90 pounds of gear. There's no way Grimes could be carrying that around in one hand with a gas can in the other. Or getting bucked and having the bag sag to the side and the stuff not come falling out.

Did anybody else notice that Dale seemed to switch between carrying a rifle with a sling, to carrying one without a sling between scenes?

== I rewatched the first episode. ==

Two of the Sheriffs deputys from the neighboring county had shotguns. One looked like and 870 Remington. The other looked like a Mossberg.

The gun used to shoot Rick, I'm pretty sure was either 1911, or a Glock. It seemed to have an extended slide.

-AC

:: I noticed the shotguns too but it was hard to get a decent look at them, mainly the second one (Mossberg I guess). I will concur at least one of the other shotguns was indeed a standard 870. No idea what the pistol is/was. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Almost positive the other two deputys, from the neighboring county had Glocks, like the other deputys from Ricks department.

You can see one of the shotguns fairly well, after Rick gots shot, one of the two deputys joins Shane in trying to help Rick. Like Shane, he drops his gun, and it can be seen fairly well.

Looking at the pick on here, I'm more positive than ever that the last gunmans weapon was a 1911.
Good eye on my part, since it was litreally visible for like less than a second.-AC.

==Andrea's gun==
I believe Andrea is packing a Smith and Wesson 3913 Ladysmith [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I concur. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Here's a good picture. http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-2-rick-andrea.php
[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:: I also agree about it being a 3913 Ladysmith. We also saw a M67 'baseball' grenade in this latest episode (actually the training version, you could still spot some blue paint on it). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of rifle did Meryl have? ==

Looked like possibly a Model 70, but I'm bad at identifing bolt actions.
-AC

Seriously, does anyone know what kind of rifle he had?-AC

Compare the bolt heads (or whatever the end of the bolt closest to the butt is called); the Remington 700 seems to have more of a protruding portion, while the Mod. 70 is tucked in and more square-like.

At least, that's what it seems like. There used to be a generic page for comparing Bolt-Action Rifles, like the shotguns have now. Where did that page go?

Here it is.

[[Bolt Action Rifles - Most common Sporting Models|Scoped Bolt Action Hunting Rifles]]. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

==Shane's Pistol==
Can anyone identify the pistol Shane is carrying? It looks like either a Glock or possibly a Sig Pro. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Probally a Gock. There very common cop guns, in both hollywood, and real life. Also, severael of the cops, at opening shootout had them, so evedently the prophouse they went to had some.
-AC

Definitely a Glock. Although it's only shown briefly, it looks like a 17. He carries it in a thumb break holster. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

Picture of him holding it: http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-4-carl-lori-shane-morales.php

After looking at the screenshot on the main page, can anyone identify the holster?

In the finale you can see its a Glock 19. Not 17. (Also the firing M4s looked like they had blank firing adapters as flashiders)

Definitely a 17 in the last episode when shane opens the barn doors and shhots all the walkers he fires too many rounds for it to be a 19

This is getting tiresome now, stop identifying guns based on the amount of rounds that they fire! It's a TV series where in editing they can easily make a 15 round magazine last for 80 rounds (see John Woo films) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:27, 2 January 2012 (CST)

==Merle==

It's Merle not Maryl or Marle

==Guts==
I really like how Rick actually checks the dead soldier's vest for more ammo instead of just taking the weapon like every other film. I also like how when his Beretta runs dry he doesn't toss it away like some generic action hero but he keeps it and stows it in Glenn's backpack. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that was good stuff. Have yet to see the Beretta again though. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:Did you also notice that his [[Colt Python]] is still in his hoslter even though he ran out of ammo for it? I liked that touch as well. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

You never know what you might find ammo for at a latter date.-AC
::Which he does in the third episode. Anyway Python's are too expensive to be tossing away on a whim. Even after the Zombie Apocalypse has happened. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

If I recall right they've been outta production since the late 90s.

::The last Python was manufactured approximately six years ago. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Still outta production than. If I recall right, for a while it was outta generael production, but could be special ordered.

Yes the last five or six years it had to be ordered through the custom shop.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The Python, and The Anaconda, where the best revolvers Colt made since the SAA imho-AC

IMO, the Official Police and Detective Special should be included as well. -SasquatchJim

Too bad that still fully loaded .50 next to the tank is too heavy to take back [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If he can walk and ride a horse with a 90lb bag on his back like its nothing, he could carry a M2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

And he brought buddies with him to GET that bag he left behind. They can lug around an M2 with ammo. Sure it doesn't look like there's any extra, but it's an M2 with AMMO! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

But honestly, what would be the purpose, in this story? I mean, they're already getting guns and ammo, and it's not like you need a lot of penetration to kill a zombie, so they don't really need a .50 caliber machinegun. All it would really do was kill a couple of zombies while making a shitload of noise, attracting every zombie in a mile radius. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 05:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

: I bet one would've come in handy on top of the camper during the attack on the camp. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::Possibly (I posted that before I saw that episode, sorry.), though I doubt any of them have any training or even any practice with military grade machine guns, and so I'm betting that during the chaos of the attack, they would have killed more of their own people. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:43, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
::: Woulda been kinda hard to use that thing in the dark, too, since the only source of light is that campfire. Scoring headshots on zombies without friendly fire in a situation like that? No way even TV-land can pull THAT one off.

Talking about scavenging guns, even when they were rushing back to the vehicles in front of the CDC wouldn't it have been a good idea to at least grab a couple of the discarded weapons lying around out front?

==Vatos==
Ok, tonight I think I've seen a S&W model 10, a Colt Detective Special, and possibly a S&W mosel 28 in the hands of the mexican gangsters and it looks like T-Dog was using a BAR. The bag had some Sigs and Glocks and Daryl had a Remington 870 and I think that Rick is using a Mossberg 590 not a 500. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't edit the page tonight, I just wrote on here. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Daryl took at least one Sig from the bag. T-Dog used a Mossberg later, but I think his scoped rifle was a BAR. The shotty Glenn ended up with, looked the same as Daryl's. Also, Shane drew his pistol at one point, but it was hard to see.-AC
==Daryl's Crossbow==
Daryl Dixon's crossbow is a Horton Scout HD 125: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2817217&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch. In the fourth episode "Vatos", when Daryl points it a T-dog on the roof you can see the faded Horton logo on the front. Scout 125 can be seen above the trigger after the camera angle changes. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

::Picture added and changes made. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Was that an XD? ==

The handgun, that Daryl takes from the bag of guns. At first I thought it was a SIG, but after rewatching it, I think it may have been a Springfield Army XD.
-AC

Nope, definitely a bi-tone Sig of some kind.

Yeah, the XDs don't have all that stuff on the side of the gun and the slide is actually more Glock like than the more rounder Sig slides [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Walkingdeadsig.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rick Grimes ([[Andrew Lincoln]]) inspects a bi-tone Sig Sauer handgun from his bag of guns.]]

- ZeoRanger5 17:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

that looks like a SIG-sauer P226 or P228. simmons 8492

I agree with simmons 8492, i'd say p228 myself.

How did you think that was an XD?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 14:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. When I stuck it in his waistband, it looked like a combination between a Sig, and a Glock. As far as handguns go, I'd say the XD is closest to that description. Course I was rather sleep deprived at the time.-AC

i also think that in episode 5 shane pulls what looks to be a sig when the sister is coming back to life . im not sure because i know shane has a glock but this isnt in the holster , its carried mexican style and is only seen for seconds. can some one verify ?[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Rick also pulls a gun carried similarily in that scene. Ricks looked like a Glock.

but shanes looks more like a sig or something .[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Some ones gotta move that pic into the 228 spot.[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:It's not a P228. The screencap doesn't show it well, but I checked the episode again, and it's possible to see that it has the squared trigger guard of the P226, rather than rounded, as on a P228. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

==Faking recoil==

Its a littlle overdone but nice to see it (a HP in 9mm doesnt kick as much as shown, but its better than most shows, and handling is pretty good or tv.

may be because he hasent realy fired a 9mm in a while he wasnt use to it or because hes used to the revovler

That makes no sense, .357 Magnum (I'm guessing thats what is loaded) has alot more kick, if he can handle a .357 than he could easily handle a 9mm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:02, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

and im sure that a python has more kick than that highpower . and being that he killed a hand full of zombies with that in the first episode it wont matter .-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:Just a FYI, its Hi Power, not High Power.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Since most people don't know the distinction between a Hi-Power and a Colt M1911, and the show is known to have certain..flaws when it comes to reality, they could have just been assuming that it was a .45, and Hollywood logic states that if it's larger than 9mm, it makes your wrist fly up and sends bad guys flying.

Or it was just because they wanted Rick to seem cool with a stainless steel firearm (like his Colt Python, which he points at other survivors so often, it could be a drinking game).

But being seriously, this is the same show where Glocks have external, slide-mounted safeties in the US and headshots can be made off-hand with a sidearm at 50 meters while running.

AUA/

:I haven't been able to watch the series only the first episode (no cable) but... The Python is a heavy revolver and could be loaded with .38 Specials. Also with the Hi-Power being a semi-auto and able to shoot more rapidly. Would have more perceived recoil. Seeing guys on YouTube handle .45s with very little recoil, it's shotguns and full auto rifles where movies get recoil wrong. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==DShK heavy machine gun?==

I believe there was an abandoned DShK heavy machine gun flanked by sandbags when they headed towards the CDC building by the looks of the muzzle. (This was the best episode so far, I think.) - Angel_956

Most likely a mocked up M2 but I definatly saw that distinct muzzle brake.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I added a cap but you cannot really tell one way or another if it is a mock up or not. Either way...it makes no sense for it to be there in the first place!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was thinking. Why would an outdated Soviet Union machine gun even be in the show, but it might be cleared up in the next episode. I clearly remember the guy in the CDC building saying something about some French soilders, I think. If so it might of meant that there was an international response to the zombie outbreak, trying to control it, explaining the DShK. [[User:Angel_956|Angel_956]]

:Now your just over-analyzing, it's in all likeliness what they used because it's what was available to use when they were shooting the scene. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe somebody "requisitioned" (read: looted) it from the National Infantry Museum or Fort Benning; both are in or around Columbus, GA, which isn't exactly close to Atlanta, but it's the closest place I can think of where you might plausibly find a DShK. When you need more HMGs, you grab what's available. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 20:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Weird though, since they obviously had M2s available for filming.-AC

:Not necessarily. Armorers can change during filming and weapons may not be available even though they were previously. Also remember that only the first episode had the M2 so the armorer could have changed since then. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, those M2HBs are still there in episodes 2 ("Guts," when Grimes escapes from the tank) and 4 ("Vatos," when Glenn goes to retrieve the Bag O' Guns) and they pass at least two M2HBs on the way to the CDC's front door after they pass the DShK. They weren't just there for the pilot. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 09:18, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

My thought was militia that made a last stand with the army to protect the people gathering at the CDC (notice the weapon is surrounded by bodies in civilian clothes), the DShK having been purchased by one of the members (legitimately or otherwise) and subsequently put to use following the outbreak. - Wolfblade670

Maybe the Russians dropped in tom VDV to help protect the CDC. -Jakezergling

:I, umm, highly doubt that... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:30, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, Russia would have enough trouble fighting the Walkers on their own turf, considering that Russia is easily 2 times the size of continental United States. Besides that, do the Russians even use the DshK anymore? I do believe it's been phased out by the Kord since the late 90s/early 2000s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:18, 27 February 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's knife ==

In the third episode, when Daryl is told about his brother, he attacks Rick with some sort of hunting or combat knife. He's later seen with it in a sheath on his left thigh, and you get a fairly close (But very brief) look at it when they're walking through the building at the beginning of the forth episode. Anyone have any clue what it is? I mean, from the brief glimpse I got of it in the forth episode, it looked like it was possibly a TOPS Steel Eagle 107C, the same kind of knife that the character Royce had sheathed in Predators, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm, or give an alternative? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

It's actually a Busse Combat Team Gemini with a bead blasted finish and black and tan layered g10. Gerber is now supplying knives to the show as well, as seen in the season 2 premiere when Carl finds a full roll in and abandon vehicle. The list of models is on their FB page. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

: I would agree that Daryl does have a Busse Combat Team Gemini. A clear profile-type photo of Daryl's knife was featured in the "story sync" for the eighth episode of the second season on the AMC website. Here's a link to that image: http://www.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/208-17.jpg --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:24, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== What kind of gun did he give Morales? ==

He said it was a .357, but I have no idea what it was.-AC

/AUA

He held it in his hand for a profile shot; maybe you should try screencapping it at that point and going from there. There should be an ID for it though, unlike Morgan's snubnose.

AUA/

I lack the equipment needed to screencap.-AC

/AUA

Use IrfanView (freeware) or the PrtScn button on your computer (press it on the frame you want to capture, and then paste it into Paint to crop it).

AUA/

I think it's a Smith and Wesson 586 [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

== Rick's second shotgun.==

After Rick gives the 590 (it wasn't a 500, someone should change that) to Guillermo, he uses one with an 18 inch barrel, a blued type finish and wood furniture. I think some people commented on it being a Mossberg, but it has a rounded bolt like a Remington 870. However, it's not an 870 since the trigger guard isn't round enough, the magazine tube is longer than the standard 4 shot tube, and it doesn't have an extension attached, and the wood furniture has a single rib on the side for gripping. After doing some research, my best guess is that it's an earlier H&R Pardner Pump, possibly in some sort of police configuration. I know it's neither a Mossberg or a Remington, though.

It's indeed an H&R Pardner Pump. The humpback receiver is unmistakable. [Ballistics_Expert2]

/AUA

I'd PrtScn/screencap the shotgun in question before making any comparisons. We still haven't definitively IDed Dale's bolt-action, so maybe you should get one of that as well.

AUA/

We still have Merles bolt-action as well.
-AC

This cap from the page will suffice:

[[Image:WD870ep05.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Rick with his Remigton, when he and Shane patrol the woods (Episode 5).]]

And a link to a Pardner Pump configured similarly:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/TRguy/Guns/NEFPardnerPumpYouth8-12-10.jpg

A few things distinguishing the shotgun in the picture as a Pardner Pump as opposed to an 870, 500 series, or whatever:

-Some type of thin rib on the top of the barrel.
-The foregrip has the distinctive groove in it as seen on the Pardner Pump.
-The agnle that the receiver curves at the butt end is a sharper angle rather than a bend type (you can tell by the shadow).
-The magazine tube is longer than a 4 shot, but it's not screwed on like other models, nor does the endcap and barrel link resemble that of other models.

Some other things that you can't notice in the picture, like the flatter trigger guard or a good shot of the angled receiver, are seen in the series very easily, namely in Episode 5 during Rick and Shane's patrol, when this cap takes place, and one instance in Episode 6 where the doctor is drawing blood and the gun is sitting behind Rick as he waits. This good enough? --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 10:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think you're right, it's not a Remington, Mossberg, or a Winchester. It looks like a Pardner, more like the Pardner pump compact, due to the shorter barrell. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 23:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

-Rick's first shotgun was a 500 with the extended tube. It didn't have the bayonet lug, just check some of the promo pics on imbd.com - [[User:MarkXIX|MarkXIX]]

Ah, so it is, I could have sworn I saw the 590s tube cap on it. I can notice a buncha stuff on an H&R, but I get that wrong, lol. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 17:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Rick's shotgun, from the end of Vatos and on, was a Pardner Pump, but I don't think it was a 20 gauge. Sometimes, hunting model guns can have the vent-rib barrel cut down, to where it is a riot shotgun. I see that as being more plausible. --[[User:1897Reloaded|1897Reloaded]] 11:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

==Think its funny==

Rick misses several close range shots (so do long gun toting officers) in the beginning against chase suspects, then later in series hes nailing headshots left and right....

Noticed that too, although zombies don't shoot back. They just charge straight ahead.

/AUA

It's a screenplay-direction thing. The show is already a bit overdramatized in general, so little things like the 'clip' and 'safety' dialogue or the headshot ratio aren't really all that important to the screenwriters, at least not compared with inserting dramatic bits into it.

AUA/

When the police were shooting the chase suspects, their targets were live people. An accurate marksman or not, if you're not used to firing live rounds at live humans your subconscious may not want you to hit that kill shot. Zombies are different.

also he has had weeks of shooting live targets ie the zombies so he as probaly leared to shot them really well --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Unless you're superhuman, you can't learn how to make a shot that is off-hand, behind you, at a 1.5 x 1 ft target at 50 meters, while RUNNING, in a few weeks. Few people would be able to make that shot, period. The gate-zombie shots were just...unfeasible.

AUA/

*Well it is a show about the dead walking around and eating the flesh of the living. I'm willing to overlook the amazing skill that Rick displays with headshots.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:28, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

==Question about Shane's shotgun technique==
Just a question for those who may know, is it considered proper technique to hold the gun that high on the shoulder, with his cheek resting on the receiver? I figuered it was an adjustmant made due to the M4-style stock, as Rick and other survivors wielding unmodified weapons don't do this.

: I noticed that too, I figured it was just the actor's preference (possibly due to inexperience) but I guess it could be because of the M4 stock. I dunno. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

:It's standard practice in the US military. They teach you to ride the stock high so that your sights are level with your eyes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Thats with the M16/M4, not a shotgun.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:the stock on the shotgun is a Knoxx Industries SpecOps NRS Shotgun Stock

::My dad has one on his 870.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

-i noticed that . i dont think that stock has a single thing to do with it . it probably prefrances [[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Considering the US military teaches you do to that with a M4, the stock is pretty much the same as the M4 so I could see why he's doing it. Also I don't get the feeling that any of the actors are really inexperienced, they all seem to be trained well in regards to weapons. Least Rick and Shane do.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:18, 8 March 2012 (CST)

==Series Finale==

I noticed a nickel finished pistol tucked into Daryl's waistband mexican style early on in the episode, looked like a SIG.
I'm thinking that Daryl's pistol was probably the same Hi-Power Rick took off merle in episode 2.

Does any one else think the grenade description is a bit of a spoiler as it is a deus ex machina. I suggest only saying it is used in episode 6 and not how. I know this has absoloutely nothing to do with firearms but i loved the ax decapitation amidst the headshots at the end --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

:The grenade wasn't a deus ex machina, but a textbook example of Chekhov's gun. He found it in the first episode even. It would have been a deus ex machina if they found it there.(I expected him to actually bring it out against the guys in the city in episode 3, myself)--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 08:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, New guy here. When Jenner allows the the others to enter the facility at the start of the episode, he's seen holding an M4, and he mentions that "There're a lot of these lying around. I familiarized myself." And yet, none of the others ever even think of finding a couple of the guns for themselves. Shame, considering a couple of those and a few mags would've come in pretty handy outside (especially if there was a suppressor to be found) Anyone else bugged by this?

They've been sitting outside for like a month. The M4 is a fine, gun, but you need to clean it regularly.-AC

:Only if your in the desert sand, sitting around like that outside would be fine but not how I would store my guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I was definitely bugged by this fact. Supposedly a lot of M4s and 30 round magazines lying around, and Jenner's the only guy who has one. But then again the supply of ammo might've been low, considering everything that'd happened. [[Ballistics_Expert2]]

first off all there are no M4A1`s seen inside all out side wicth iswere he probily got it second they were only out side for a few momints ehter runing away from the bulding or trying to get in before they are over welbed with zombies tird as he said ammo is preety rare as you can see when they are out side there are hunderdes of dead zombies witch had to be killed by something --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== To Do List. ==

1. Shotguns used by deputies in opening shootout.
2. Morgans revolver.
3. Merles rifle.
4. The guns, Rick, and Shane pull after Amy turns.
5. The gun given to Morales.
6. Daryls handgun.
7. Whether Shanes Glock is a 17 or 19.
8. Whether Ricks first shotty was a 500 or a 590.
9. Ricks second shotty.

I miss anything?-AC

==Short Season Huh?==

At least season 2 will be twice as long, whenever they get around to making it.....

At least there will be a seaon two, I thought this was a miniseries at first and was very dissapointed that it was over so soon. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 01:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

It's definately already in production. Normally when a series gets picked up production on the second season gets rolling ASAP. This became a pretty popular show, show I'm guessing AMC got the ball rolling right away when they realized they had demand for the show. Anyone here read the graphic novel series? I want to try and get into it but want to know if it's worth the time and money--[[User:Burgershot621|Burgershot621]] 05:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

They really are worth it. I buy the trade paperbacks, they are like $12.00 a book. There are 13 of them up to now. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Personaaly i prefer the graphic novels. Dont get me wrong i love the series, but the comics are much more grim and dark, in the series everyone seems to be more willing to get along and its more zombie orientated, the comics are much more grim, its about the characters and in the comic no characters are safe, even mainstay ones. The tv series feels slightly more commercialised and main characters have outlived their comic book life already. I do love the tv version, and darly dixion is the best non comic character creation to be added to the series, I just hope Carl gets a gun next series, that said and cant belive i have to wait till october to see series 2.- Captain Snikt [[Special:Contributions/109.157.4.163|109.157.4.163]] 23:58, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:Daryl has proven so popular that he's actually being written into the comic. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:15, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

== Popular Cop Guns ==
An answer above said that the Glock was "a very common cop gun, in both hollywood, and real life." This is true, but I was wondering if their were any other cop guns in hollywood and in real life that are as popular as the Glock.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The Beretta 92 is the only one that comes to mind for me. -SasquatchJim.

:There aren't too many police depts issuing the Beretta 92F anymore, even though Hollywood still shows them being carried by cops. Anyway, Glock holds just under 2/3rds of the U.S. law enforcement market, SIG-Sauer holds about 1/3rd, and a number of other makes (S&W, H&K, Beretta, etc.) are constantly fighting each other for what's left. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

SIG-Sauer P226, S&W M19/66, AR-15, and many more... --[[User:nkingman|nkingman]]

Ah, that's right.
Some older ones include the S&W Model 10, S&W Model 28, Colt Trooper, and a 12 gauge pump shotgun (namely a Remington 870.)
Another new one is the S&W M&P -SasquatchJim

There was once a time when the S&W Model 15/67, the S&W Model 13/65. Colt Official Police, Ruger Six Series revolvers, the S&W Model 19/66 and the Colt Lawman/Trooper Mk III were also very popular Cop revolvers.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:40, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

Glocks, S&W M&Ps, SIGs, HK USPs, S&W 5906 (4506, etc) are known for being "cop guns",
Glocks IIRC are used by 60% of the police force in the US so its kinda hard to compare

== Flash suppressor on M4A1 ==

Did anyone else notice the flash suppressor on the M4A1 held by the soldier that gets grabbed is different than normal?
:I thought it was a nongun.--[[Special:Contributions/129.89.179.105|129.89.179.105]] 01:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)(thePotShot)
::Just for reference,
::[[Image:M4A1nongun.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M4A1 Non Gun]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Yeah, it's a Non Gun M4. Look at the range at which he's shooting at his comrades. Blanks are dangerous if an actor is shooting at other actors who are that close, so they probably had to use the Non Gun instead. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:57, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, the Aimpoint M68 CCO (in this case I believe it is a Comp M2 or ML2) can be used with the foreward lens cover closed. Used in this method, it forms an occuladed eye-sight, which were one of the first types of weapons optics employed. Using an occuladed eye-sight is very similar in principle to the BAC method employed in some Trijicon ACOGs, both eyes are left open and due to the way the brain processes images from the eye, what the left (or right eye sees) downrange has the red dot from the other eye (which is looking down the sight) superimposed on it. This is useful as there are rumors that the red dot (particularly in the Aimpoint family) can in fact be detected from in front of the weapon due to the intensity of the light, espiecially in night battle conditions. So the sceintist might really know what he is doing, but it is just as likely it was a mistake by the prop department.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 22:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== I liked Rick's reaction when he pulled the pin on the grenade in the last episode ==

He was thinkin "ohshitohshitohshitohshit" and then hauled ass outta there haha. I liked that little detail, along with him getting knocked off his feet as he tried to get as far away from it as possible, instead of the clichè "walk slowly towards the camera as a bomb goes off behind you with a bad-ass grimace on your face". This show had a lot of nice little details like that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)- Yeah but its a grenade bro, you have like what 7 seconds so you can't walk away slowly from it..and also the building was about to total..-jake

Yeah, I liked that too. i hate when like the everyday joe can slowly walk away from a huge explosion,[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

I like the way that he pulled the pin and had the "Oh my GOD!" moment when he suddenly realised that he needed to run fast. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:49, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

Lol, my friend was like that fuse is burning wtf is he doing? chilling?

== Season 2 ==

Anyone seen the trailer yet for the second seaons? It's been out for a few weeks now. I jus--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)t thought it was interesting that it hasn't been mentioned here.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

I don't have the equipment for getting screencaps from TV, but the revolver Daryl took from the camper who committed suicide looks like either a Colt Cobra or Detective Special. The structure doesn't look right for being a S&W Model 10 or Model 36/37. And the slender grip profile and lack of an ejector rod housing eliminates the possibility of it being a Taurus.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

I was rewatching the season 2 premier episode and I noticed something that irked me a bit concerning the scene at the tent where Daryl found the Colt revolver. This is a series known for a great deal of firearms safety and consideration. But here we have an example of typical Hollywood gun handling. Nobody checked to see how many live rounds were in it, they just assumed it was still loaded and ready to be used. For all we know Daryl handed Laurie an empty weapon for taking on the trail back to the RV.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

==Gerber Bag of Knives==

Carl ([[Chandler Riggs]]) found this bag in the first episode of the second season which contained six different gerber tool knives and machetes.

[[Image:Gerber-Zombie-Apocolypse-Knives.jpg|thumb|none|500px| So long as you use a knife, there's still a little love left.]]

In the Season 2 props video on the AMC website, they explain the endorsement and show some of the gear. The prop master also gives a look at Rick's character specific items, which includes a [http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000582-Modified-Partially-Serrated/dp/B004DT26ME/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319921541&sr=8-2 DMF Folder]. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:58, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

Some of this bag is anachronistic though, as the knives were not invented until after the zombie apocalypse destroyed humanity, and presumably the Gerber factory. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:21, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

How do you know that though? As far as I can remember there hasn't been a date mentioned for when the zombie apocalypse happened, it could be set in the very near future. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:30, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:What I meant is that some of the knives have been released since the series started airing, and I'm assuming that the first episode wasn't set in the future. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:41, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
::Fair enough. I do think of it like well they haven't really set an actual date on when it occurs so anything "new" that shows up in the show is either there to look cool or it's there for some sort of product placement. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:33, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::Or both. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:35, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::: Touche --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:08, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

== Morgan's Revolver ==

The revolver that Morgan uses is a S&W model 60

:It can't be the Model 60 because of the curved ejector shroud. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:38, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Season 2 spoiler-ish descriptions ==

I feel like a lot of the description "updates" on the guns used (or re-used, as applicable) in Season 2 are giving too much info away. Definitely enough to qualify as spoilers to some people (like me). One shouldn't need to narrate the scene and context in which the gun appears, at least not to the extent some of the descriptions are- especially if it's giving away future happenings.

== M4 ==

I think the caption about the doctor not noticing the covers for the M68 is a little of a moot point. The doctor stated he wasnt familiar with the weapon, and simply picked it up when soldiers started dying or running away. -MissySummers-

== Dave and Tony's guns ==

In the eighth episode of the second season - "Nebraska" - two newcomers walk into the bar where Rick and Glenn found Hershel drinking alone. The strangers introduce themselves to Rick, Glenn, and Hershel as Dave and Tony. I had a difficult time identifying these two guns that Dave and Tony had. Dave's gun looked to me like it might be a SIG-Sauer P226. Tony's gun looked to me like it was some sort of sawn-off double-barrel shotgun - maybe an over/under style double barrel shotgun too. Did anybody get a good look at either one of these guns? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:52, 21 February 2012 (CST)

After watching the episode "Triggerfinger" it looks like hershel picked up Dave's pistol which looked to me like a SIG-SAUER P228 to me. And the big guy had a cutdown pump shotgun that I think was a Remington 870 and Rick was duel weilding it with his Python when they left the bar. The kid on the roof appeared to a have a bolt action rifle but it never showed a clear pic.

: I just watched the "Nebraska" and "Triggerfinger" episodes again back to back. I would have to agree with you now on Dave's gun. It appears that Dave actually did bring a SIG-Sauer P228 into the bar in the "Nebraska" episode. I got a better look at this gun in the "Triggerfinger" episode when Hershel was armed with it. I could tell this gun was a P228 because the trigger guard was curved instead of hooked like the P226 has, plus the barrel and slide on this gun were shorter than what the P226 has. I looked very closely at Tony's shotgun too, but I don't agree with you on this one. There's no way it could have been a Remington 870. I would still say that it is a sawn-off, over/under, double barrel shotgun. (Just my opinion here, but a sawn-off shotgun would be a piss-poor gun for defending yourself against a zombie horde that is coming at you. The shot spread pattern on a sawn-off shotgun would be way too wide to be effective on any zombie's head beyond short range, and it's better to kill multiple zombies from a distance than at point blank range, right?) I also noticed that Glenn had Tony's shotgun later on in the "Triggerfinger" episode. I agree with you about that the kid on the roof though - he sure seemed to have a bolt action rifle with a scope mounted on it. What happened to it is the question now. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 15:59, 22 February 2012 (CST)
I just watched it again and I swore I heard a cocking sound so that could make it a pump action shotgun. You were right its not a pump action i believe its a over/under gun. [[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

: TV shows and movies usually have the cocking sound effects for guns added in for dramatic purposes. (For example, it seems that we often hear the cocking sound effect every time the script calls for one character to point a gun at somebody or something. In real life, guns are normally silent when this happens.) The Walking Dead seems to be just such a TV show. I don't know how to screen capture this yet, but I paused episode 208 at the 43:15 mark. I could clearly see the underside of Tony's gun there, and I did not see things on this gun such as a loading port, or a slide piece, both of which would be consistent with a pump action shotgun. It was all dark on that part of the shotgun instead, which to me seems more consistent with a double barrel, over/under, break action shotgun than with a pump action shotgun. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:55, 23 February 2012 (CST)

: I couldn't get a good look at Tony's shotgun in either "Nebraska" or "Triggerfinger". At first glance it looked like a cut down Winchester 1887 (like in T-2). I was wondering if anyone else happened to think that too? Also it almost looked like it had a synthetic stock on it which made me think it could have been the Chiappa T-Series 1887, but I don't know if those are availible yet, but again I didn't get a good enough look at it.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 20:10, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::It is a sawn off over and under (although it may be purpose made as it appeared to have a front sight present). You get a look at the gun when the guy gets up to piss, and after he is shot you see a front view of the gun showing that it is two open barrels rather than a barrel with a magazine tube underneath. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::: You're right. After rewatching the episode online and pausing just after he gets shot I could see the two barrels and also could see there is no lever either.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 22:57, 23 February 2012 (CST)

Tony's shotgun looks VERY much like the MOSSBERG HS12 after another look at episode 9. When Rick searches Tony's pocket and picks up two (probably 12-ga) shotgun rounds, you can clearly see the Top/Locking Lever for opening/locking the breech contrasted against the background. In the shot just before that you can see a Picatinny or Weaver rail on top of the receiver. This clearly says "HS12" to me...and though it pretty clearly does not have a rail on the bottom of the under barrel, not all HS12s have the under-barrel rail, I think. --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]] 27 Feb 2012
:Had to Google Mossberg HS12, and I must admit I giggled a little bit at the concept of a "tactical" over/under. I watched the episodes in question the other day, and from memory at least I'd have to agree with you. It'd be nice if someone could post a picture, though.... [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 18:05, 27 February 2012 (CST)
::I will try to get an appropriate screencap uploaded; ditto for the Sig P228/229 to help resolve that one. PS "tactical" double-barrels have made ground in the last couple years or so- check out Stoeger's "tactical" SxS...just remember to bring your barf bag- they're charging the same prices for one as you'd see for a good 870 or Mossy pump. Outrageous! In any case, stupid people waste their money on them- but I digress. Tony's apparent choice of shotgun bespeaks his desperation and/or seriously limited tactical reasoning ability- which I guess we already could've figured out around the time his body hit the floor. =P --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]]

: Does the Mossberg HS12 come with sling swivel studs? I noticed that Tony was carrying his shotgun by a sling that was looped over his shoulder. Since the buttstock of this shotgun had been sawn off, there was no way to just let it hang there - he had to keep holding onto the sling with his hand instead. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 09:00, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== What caused it? ==
Does the comic ever reveal what the cause of the outbreak was? I'm not asking for spoilers as to what the cause ''was'', I'm just asking if it's ever revealed, like a "yeah, they find out what it was" or "no, they build a rocket ship and fly to Mars to restart human civilization", or something like that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:59, 27 February 2012 (CST)
:I don't think any reason has actually been given, and Robert Kirkman (writer of the comic) has stated that he doesn't plan to ever give a definitive cause. In the comic characters have speculated that it is caused by a virus that everyone in the world is infected with that causes them to reanimate after death. Because I've read the comic I already knew this so can't remember if it is made clear in the series, but it is the kind of zombie apocalypse where everyone who dies turns into a zombie, even if they die from non zombie causes (zombie bites cause infections that are 100% lethal). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 27 February 2012 (CST)

For Example a certain Main Character is shot dead at the end of the first book (in the comic they never went to the CDC, instead they just got the guns and left, but before they left the character is killed) and later in the series (maybe a book or two later, Rick returns to the place where they buried said person, and he was a zombie even though he had died by a bullet and not bite/scratch --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 09:34, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== Unidentified pistol ==

In the most recent episode, S02E11, Carl takes a pistol out of Daryl's bike. Presumably it is the same pistol Daryl used in episode S01E4. There were some pretty clear shots of the pistol when Carl is holding it, looked like a Browning, but I could be completely wrong. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 23:51, 5 March 2012 (CST)
:It was a [[Browning BDA]], not sure if this is the same gun as in S01E04 as it looks like that has a larger beavertail on the back of the grip, but is hard to tell from the shots available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:56, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Shotgun stock? ==
What type of stock is on Shane's shotgun?
--[[User:Zombie Killer 1995|Zombie Killer 1995]] 09:24, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:It says on the main article, a KNOXX SpecOps NRS stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:40, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's pistol ==

I think Daryl's unidentified pistol might be a CZ-75 series, the frame/grips seem to match it as does the general size.
:Looked more like a Browning Hi-Power to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:18, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I concur with Cool-breeze. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:41, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Looked more like a Browning BDM to me.

Hey, it does not really matter at this point as the stupid kid loses in the leafs and then books it..
::He ''didn't'' lose it in the bushes. But even if he had, it still matters what it is, considering the purpose of this website. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:22, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

That actually seemed to best the best look at the handgun we see and it appeared to be a Browning Hi-Power to me as well.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:15, 8 March 2012 (CST)

:People are talking about two different guns here. The easily identifiable one is the one that Carl takes out of Daryl's saddle bag in the most recent episode, which is definitely a [[Browning BDA]]. There is also the pistol that only the grip is seen sticking out of his waist band in S01E04, which I think is a different pistol. One of the only features that you can make out on this pistol is that fact that it has a prominent beavertail/grip spur at the back which is does not match the BDA or BDM. Hammer is wrong for the Hi-Power, my best guess would be a CZ-75 from the relationship between the hammer and the grip spur but it is not possible to tell from this pic. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:57, 9 March 2012 (CST)

== GUN SENSE ==

Their for sure would tons of M4'S and possibly m16a4's lying around in the streets of Atlanta with moer Berettas. Why does no one go for one and why do they not ask jenner for some. Would an assault rifle not be good to kill hordes of undead? Also why did rick not get on the .50 on the tank and take out some before. Even when I see police cars don't they raid them. The only time I have seen anyone do that is when Shane and Otis use the flares from the cruiser to distract the walkers..And yes I know it is a scripted show.
------
Don't forget that the show starts a while after the zombies take over so any M4s,M16s, etc would have already been scooped up from the Atlanta streets, at least the ones people could get before the city was overrun. And they didn't ask Jenner for any because an assault rifle is actually quite cumbersome and the ammo could weigh them down even more then they already are. Also it would be pretty hard to find any ammunition for M4s/M16s as that doesn't seem to be a commonly used weapon in this show beyond the military. They don't search cop cars because as I stated, the show starts a while after the initial overrunning of cities so if people had any brains, they would have raided cop cars a long time ago. As for the Beretta statement, it seems like that is more of a military firearm as well and not a police weapon, plus they can't search every single corpse they find in the city. As to the .50 cal on the tank, notice how fast the zombies crawled on top of the tank? Rick would never have lasted, plus I don't believe there was any .50 ammo in the tank, nor in the gun. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:14, 8 March 2012 (CST)

- -

Sorry I'm new at posting on here. Good point I forgot it starts 2 week after the outbreak. But I was thinking if Otis and Shane both had automatics it may have ended differently. Also we do Rick's beretta again with Shane and Andrea in the housing developments she has it no and perfers it to her ladysmith. And as to the .50cal their was one zombie when he came out to escape he shoveled it in the face. The .50 just is a bad idea in my opinion caue its one loud mother. Also I don't understand why people carry bolt actions around, look what happend to Dale. Imagine how smooth the show would run if everyone had silenced weapons. One more thing, is anyone else hoping for the variety of guns to switch up? We know that the kid's camp has 30 men+(jude,jury,executioner)so assuming Rick's group comes up on top cause the shows been renewed for season 3. Will they get some real artiliery? (User:n Gunfan1996)

:If I remember in the first episode, Rick did bump into a tank and I coulda sworn I saw ammo in that 50 cal, but it is a bit heavy for one to carry. An Assault Rifle plus ammo is not heavy at all. A shotgun with ammo is actually more heavy and cumbersome to carry and limited range 12:46, 9 March 2012 (CST)

:There was no ammo in the tank gun.

[[Image:WalkingDead-BrowningM2HB 02.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A closeup of the mounting; note that the mounting is designed for the L7 GPMG, an FN MAG derivative, and the fake M2 simply sits on top of it. Compare to the real M2 in the foreground of the shot above.]]

:Besides, Rick was on horseback. What's he going to do, mount the .50 on the head of his horse? And it's also worth noting that he didn't have any weapons that used that ammo. A belt of .50 would be dead weight (no pun intended). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:37, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

Still dunno why Rick uses a Python though, those .357 rounds are LOUD.
Personally, I hoped someone had scooped the Doc's M4 up on the way out of the CDC, oh well....
--[[User:Geckcgt|Geckcgt]] 01:14, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

== WOW!!!!!!! AWESOME ENDING (SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!) ==

I couln' resist saying how awesome i thought S02: E12 was. That was the way to kill off Shane. Plus with the cool remix of the theme song playing as you see an army of walkers walk out onto the field. Just saying, I think Hershel or Maggie will die in the season finale. For those who missed it, here's a link: http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/talked-about-scene-episode-212-the-walking-dead-shanes-last-stand --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 14:51, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

Yep pretty good. I knew that eventually Shane was going. If I remember the comic book correctly it was Carl who killed Shane when he was going to kill rick and then Rick finished him off when he came back as a walker. So in the television show they reversed that. Liked the ending. I wonder if next season they will deal with the Governor and the Prison? --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:30, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:If you search for news of the show, te actor has already been cast, looking forward to the next season.--[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 17:14, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:The Governor has indeed been cast and no it is not Merle. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:55, 12 March 2012 (CDT) [[http://screenrant.com/david-morrissey-governor-the-walking-dead-yman-156371/]]

Nothing you guys said makes any sense because i don't read comics. Don't tell me though. I'm going to read the comics after the series finally ends. I know a friend with the complete collection who sai he is going to sell it along with DVD copies when they all come out. I WANT THAT!!!!! Check on ebay after the series comes to an end.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 18:56, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

All I'm wondering is why did they make it so all you have to do is die to become a zombie instead of being bitten/scratched? Do they explain this as well? [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 10:00, 13 March 2012

:Almost every zombie story I've ever read, movie I've ever seen, or game I've ever played has it the same way as The Walking Dead TV series and comic book has had it - When a person dies for any reason, that same person later becomes a zombie, unless their brain has been damaged or destroyed first. So far, no explanation has been given as to exactly how this happens. My guess would be that it's all due to an airborne virus. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:56, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

Can anyone identify the knife Rick used to finally put Shane down? Was it one of the Gerbers seen frequently throughout this season, or something else? I couldn't get a close enough look.--[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:35, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:I paused S02/Ep12 at the 39:09 mark. That was where I could get the best look at this knife. As best I can tell, Rick used a Gerber DMF folder on Shane. I think Rick has had that same knife all throughout Season 2. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 13:19, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

I also wanted to know about a knife from episode 10 of season 2 (18 Miles Out). The knife in question is the one that Rick leaves for Randall to use. I don't know if it can be seen any better in any other episode but I know that Randall does eventually use it and I think I remember a few semi-close up shots of it.

:Yes, there are a few close-up shots of the knife Randall uses in Episode 10 of Season 2. It appears to be a sheath knife without any serrations on the blade, finger grooves on the grip, and a clip point. I checked the official Gerber website, but I was unable to see any knife pictured there which resembled this one. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 19:20, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

On the actual subject of the firearms used in the finale, I think Lori uses the Charter Arms Pug that Carl had earlier in the season. Daryl used a revolver I couldn't ID.... Looked like a .38 of some kind with a 4 or 5 inch barrel, but I'm not sure. [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 22:02, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

To add to that, Glenn was seen using Shane's Mossberg with the M4-style stock in the finale. (Shane no longer needed it.)
Hershel was also seen using, what I believe is the Remington 870 Wingmaster used by Dayrl in "Vatos"

The revolver Daryl used, if it was Dale's revolver i think it is a colt of some kind, although I cannot get a good look, in one of the earlier episodes you can see the grip under Dale's shirt, and it looks like there is a Colt medallion near the top, not sure though.--[[User:Awaler32|Awaler32]] 09:42, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

== Logo on Carl's shirt ==
This is way off topic for IMFDB, but the logo on Carl's shirt in the episode "Better Angels", a black bear paw in front of a red atom, I know I've seen it elsewhere but I can't place it. At first I thought it was the old Blackwater logo, but the BW logo is a black bear paw in a red scope crosshair. Does anyone recognize it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:13, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

:The logo on Carl's shirt is for "Science Dog" - another comic book by the creator of TWD, Robert Kirkman. The comic book version of Carl has this same exact logo on his shirt too. Adding this level of detail to Carl's wardrobe in the TV series was a nice touch, I would say. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 07:01, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

== The guns of the survivors ==
Way back in episode one of the series we see Rick load up all of the available weapons from the precinct's armory for his journey to Atlanta. And while we've had about 18 episodes to ask the question we really haven't yet. If they weapons came from the police armory why do a good portion of the long guns appear to be hunting firearms? The Browning BAR, the Remington 700, the Remington 870 and such look out of place in the right context.

- Well, I think that the older wooden-furniture Remington 870 and the Remington 700 can be explained, as it is a small, rural County Sheriff's Office in Georgia. Before the widespread distribution of tactical sniper rifles, M16's and M4's across America's police departments, police were using other weapons, such as the Remington 700 and the Winchester Model 70 for that purpose. Also, we see Rick gathering up the weapons AFTER the outbreak. The Sheriff's officers could have grabbed the new firearms and left the older ones, which would still be in the armory for storage and reserve purposes. If the story was broadened, it would probably show the other Sheriff's deputy's taking tactical rifles and carbines to employ them in the field. [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]]

:One thing that always struck me as "unrealistic" about TWD has been the types and and amounts of guns depicted in seasons 1 and 2, along with the feelings of some of the characters toward guns. The setting for this show all along has been in Georgia, which in real life is a "red" pro-gun southern state with a longtime history of private gun ownership among a large percentage of the population. So far on TWD however, the way in which guns have been depicted seems somewhat more as if the show's setting has been in a "blue" anti-gun northeastern state like New Jersey!

:In real-life Georgia, I have no doubt that there are many civilians who own at least one semi-automatic rifle chambered for a military cartridge and a few high-capacity magazines for it, and that number probably increased by even more after Obama got elected in 2008. Bearing this in mind, I can't see why there would not have been at least a few people in that survivor's camp outside Atlanta during season 1 armed with something more than just hunting firearms and handguns. The two "redneck" characters in season 1 - Merle and Daryl - they would have both had tactical-type rifles and hidden caches of ammunition for them if it had been up to me. Rednecks in real life have been stockpiling ammunition ever since Obama got elected. Plus, seasons 1 and 2 have had two former cops in the group - Rick and Shane - but neither one of them have ever seen the need to acquire better firepower. There were M4's and other weapons scattered all around the outside of the CDC in season 1, but nobody thought to pick any of them up. If I had been Rick, I would have been constantly telling everybody else in the group all throughout seasons 1 and 2 to keep gathering up guns and ammunition whenever possible. That one black bag Rick loaded up at the police station's armory in the first episode of season 1 could not possibly have held enough ammunition to last all the way to the end of season 2.

:Then there were the anti-gun sentiments among some members in the group - Lori in season 1 and 2, and Hershel in season 2. Lori's objections to her son Carl learning how to shoot struck me as being a bit odd. Lori is supposed to be a housewife from a small town in the South who is married to a cop, not a soccer mom with a career from a liberal anti-gun upbringing. Being that Carl is the son of a southern small town cop, I think it would have been more realistic if he had already learned a few things about shooting from his dad Rick long before the outbreak. Hershel's attitude towards guns struck me as being most odd. Hershel is supposed to be a cattle rancher from rural Georgia, so when he said that he did want his property to become an "armed camp" from the group carrying guns around, I was shaking my head by then. Cattle ranchers in real life often have to keep a gun handy to kill coyotes and other pests. I doubt that coyotes would stay away from a farm or ranch with livestock on it after a zombie apocalypse starts. I would have to say that Hershel seemed to redeem himself later in season 2 when he said that he knew how to shoot, although he did not like to. In the season 2 finale however, Hershel seemed to be very much into showing off his shooting skills. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:43, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::I just want to say a couple of things about this rant. First, you are being very stereotypical about the South, thinking that everyone is a gun-toting redneck. I can speak from experience because I am from the most anti-gun state in the country, Massachusetts, I think I can guarantee that there are at least a few people living in the South who don't like firearms. Like I said, I am from Massachusetts, but I like guns, unlike most of the state and most of the Northeast for that matter, except New Hampshire of course. Also, the show takes place a few weeks after the zombie outbreak, most of the people with the military caliber firearms have probably long since left and moved to places they would think was safer. About Rick teaching Carl to shoot guns, he is a cop, so maybe he has seen people get badly hurt by guns, so he didn't want anything to happen to Carl. Hershel knows how to shoot pretty well. I am guessing by his hate for guns, he probably faced some kind of horrible incident in the past that resulted from him using a gun. Again, this is just speculation. In the season 2 finale, Hershel showed his shooting skills because by this time, his outlook on the undead had completely changed. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:01, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::We love our guns up here in New Hampshire! Rick teaching Carl about guns is a good thing and something that is needed. He'll be needing to use that gun more considering how the world has become with the Zombies. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:57, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::::Oh no, I completely agree with teaching Carl to use guns after the zombie outbreak, but I mean before the outbreak maybe Rick didn't have any motivation to teach his son to use guns, that's all. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:36, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::SmithandWesson36, have you been to the South much? I have. I have been to most of the southern states myself, and not just to the large cities and tourist spots, either. I also live in a somewhat rural part of Pennsylvania - it's had some population growth over the last 15 years. Anyway, the point I was trying to make above is that these days, in the "red states" of the South and other rural areas, there are more tactical type rifles in the hands of "plain folks" civilians than ever before. It's more than some people may even realize or want to admit, and the buyers are not necessarily ones who fit the "redneck" mold. Case in point: Not long after Obama was elected in 2008, the biggest gun shop in my area was packed every time I went in to browse. The gun shop's employees were often telling me back then that they could not keep up with the demand for semi-auto rifles chambered in .223 Remington. I made some small talk there once with a single mom, who seemed articulate enough, not a redneck type, etc. She was with her teenage son - they were there to buy her first gun. She bought a Yugo SKS rifle. (I think she wanted to buy an AR type rifle at first, but the SKS was much cheaper.) Also in 2008, I went to several parts of North Carolina at different times that year. I noticed that even the small pawn shops in the suburban "Research Triangle" area of NC had at least one or two AK type rifles. Plus, every time I have been to either of the two shooting ranges that I regularly go to, there has always been at least one person there shooting his or her own AR type rifle. Based upon my own personal experiences such as these, this is part of the reason why wrote what I did above. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 01:11, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Originally this started out as a discussion about why a police precinct would have hunting firearms in the armory. I don't really know how we got into the portrayal of red state/blue state issues in the show and about who personally owns what and why as opposed to something else.

As to the anti-gun bias on the show, I believe that it's to some degree understandable when considering everything. Rick and Shane are police officers, their training dictates that firearms not in the hands of fellow officers are a threat to their safety. Even if the dead have started walking that training is still with them and they're going to be relying on what they know. Hershel's stance is understandable because he sees the Walkers as sick people in need of help, not open slaughter like what was possibly being shown on the news reports. He understands that the survivors don't see things his way and would rather shoot a Walker rather than help it and he wants to prevent that...at least until after Shane opens his eyes to the truth. Lori is a mother and worries about the safety of her son, possibly because so many kids get shot and killed each year and was afraid of contributing to that. It's also possible she's opposed to the idea of Carl learning to shoot because it doesn't jive with her hopes of the world returning to what is used to be when there was order and safety. It's possible she views the idea of her child growing up cold and hard is just another nail in the coffin of the world having any sort of order to it again and she doesn't want to be swinging that hammer. --[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

:Thank you, Ballistics_Expert, that's exactly what I was trying to say. I wasn't arguing anything about red state/blue state, I'm simply stating that not everyone single person in the South loves guns and some are opposed to them. I didn't mean anything political by that, I just meant that anywhere you go, there will be people who disagree with the common concensus of the area. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:37, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

...and back to the subject...reason would lead one to believe the other cops already took the duty guns at the begining and all that was left was confiscated guns left in the evidence locker or something.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 14:44, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:Plausible, considering Shane's M4-stocked Mossy sort of stands out from the rest of the group's guns. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:29, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

::I don't know about anyone else here, but my experience with firearms and viewing preferences with firearms-related TV shows is much more based in real life than in make-believe. I shoot my semi-auto tactical rifles and 1911 pistols on a regular basis and I know many other people who do likewise. I have been to gun shops, gun shows, and gun ranges all over this country. TWD is the only fictional TV show that I am into these days - all the other ones I watch are the "reality" shows on History Channel, Discovery, NatGeo, etc. ("Sons of Guns"/"Doomsday Preppers"/"American Guns"/"Top Shot" - just to name a few.) If you watch shows like these, have been to the South as often as I have been, have been around many gunners like I have, and have seen what I have seen, you probably also would have been a bit disappointed to see how nobody in season 1 of the TWD already had at least one modern semi-auto tactical carbine, or even an older military surplus rifle such the M1 Garand or the SKS. I have already tried to point out how it is actually quite common in real life for civilians in "red" states like Georgia to own semi-auto rifles such as these, and it's not just the hardcore "redneck" types who own them now - it's more like people from all walks of life instead. As a matter of fact, due to an overwhelming demand from the civilian market, Sturm Ruger, America's largest gun maker, actually had to halt production temporarily just this week. Bearing all of this in mind, this is why I say that it should not have even mattered if Rick and Shane's hometown police station's armory had already been looted of all the tactical carbines. As for some people in the South being anti-gun/non-gun-owners, sure, they exist, but they are nowhere as nearly numerous as the anti-gunners/non-gun-owners are in a "blue" state up North like New Jersey, and these are exactly the types of people who are mostly likely going to die first and die the most in a widespread zombie outbreak, simply because they will be totally unarmed before an outbreak begins. The percentage of lawful gun owners in most of the "red" states is 50% or greater. In most of the "blue" states, the percentage of lawful gun owners is as low as 10%.

::Now, one thing that did strike me as "realistic" about the depiction of "blue" states in TWD were the characters of Dave and Tony in the "Nebraska" episode. Both of them seemed to me as being very much "blue" state guys - it was as if they were two lost cast members of the "Jersey Shore" show or something. (Could you imagine having to rely on people like them during a zombie outbreak? Would you want "Snooki" or "the situation" in your survivor group?) What I mean by this is that Dave and Tony both acted like cocky jerks with chips on their shoulders. Dave actually did mention something about meeting Tony along Route 95 outside of Philadelphia, which is also rather close to the Jersey Shore for those of you who did not know this. Much like a great many of the "blue" state folks, neither Dave nor Tony were likely gun owners, or had had any firearms training prior to the zombie outbreak. Dave actually mentioned that he got his SIG pistol off a dead cop. For all we know, Dave was the one who killed that cop, in cold blood, no less. Tony had a sawn-off Mossberg HS12 - he was probably the one who cut the stock on it down, too. If that is what happened, then it just goes to show how clueless Tony was about guns in general. Just about everything Dave and Tony said and did in the "Nebraska" episode was ignorant, rude, and rubbed me the wrong way. How Rick handled Dave and Tony was one of the best decisions he made during all of season 2 as far as I am concerned. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 20:41, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Okay, I'm sorry, but I am still confused about why you keep bringing up "blue states" and "red states," all I am trying to say is that maybe all the modern, military caliber weapon wielding people left with their weapons to find better shelters out of a small town with no protection. I don't get what you mean by having people from the Jersey Shore as survivors in your group, I have a friend with relatives from the Jersey Shore who are not orange-skinned Italians. You also say that Dave and Tony are ignorant and rude because they come from a "blue" state? I'm sorry, but you are rudely stereotyping people, which has nothing to do with what this discussion is about. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:26, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Anyway, getting back to the original topic,there is an Android Walking Dead game made by AMC and explains the first events of the outbreak right after Rick got shot, all the way up to Shane heading to the hospital to save Rick. According to the game, there were only three officers at the station when the first zombies attacked, Shane, Leon, and someone named Don. Judging by the fact that there are times when only three officers are at the station, there are probably not too many officers in this small town. I think that the police force of this town might just have been too small for it to have the budget to buy tactical rifles and they didn't really have the need for more firepower than hunting firearms. How much crime can a tiny town have, right? This is obviously just speculation, but it is my opinion. Although the real reason for their weapons could just be that a zombie show would be boring if the survivors were untouchable because they had military-grade firepower and tons and tons of ammo. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:06, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Police Armory ==

Hello everybody. Pretty spirited discussion going on above. Okay first of all (don't know how applicable this is, but here goes) I'm a police officer. October 12, 2012 will make twelve years for me. I'm also in Idaho which is in the Northwest, but very much a Red State. My department has 63 sworn officers (full-time) and eight reserve officers. I think. Our city is closing in on 50,000 residents.

Our swat team is called TRT (Tactical Response Team). We have two snipers. Both are equipped with Remington 700 rifles in .308. The rifles have 18" heavy barrels, synthetic sticks, scopes, bipods ect. All the gee-whiz tactical stuff. The other TRT members are equipped with Colt AR-15 carbines (16" barrel) and all the various accoutrements that have come to be assocaited with the AR-15 platform in the past decade. TRT officers are issued their rifles by the department.

Other offcers who wish to carry an AR-15 have to purchase the rifle out of their own pocket and attend a week long class. They have to qualify with the rifle at the end of the week if they hope to carry the rifle. The department supplies forty rounds for the rifle.

If you don't want to purchase a rifle you can carry a Remington 870 Police shotgun (supplied by the department) in 12 gauge, but it isn't mandatory.

We are issued either a [[Glock 21]] (45acp) or a [[Glock 19]] (9mm) if the 21 is too large and so on. I carry the [[Glock 19]] and I am also authorized to carry the [[Glock 26]] and the [[Smith & Wesson Model 36 / 38#Smith & Wesson Model 38/49|Smith & Wesson Model 49 Bodyguard]] as my backups and off duty pieces.

Only a couple years before I joined my department the TRT officers were carrying the [[Ruger Mini-14]] with the wooden stock and the [[Remington 870]] shotgun - also with the wooden stock. There was just one sniper and he carried the [[Savage 10/110 Series Rifles|Savage 110]] in .243 also outfitted with a wooden stock.

Officers were allowed to carry whatever type of semi-auto handgun they wanted as long as it was in 9mm, 40S&W or 45 acp. We didn't go to issuing Glocks until 2006.

So as you see it only been over the past fifteen years (more or less) that my department has gotten "modern". I can guarantee that there are many smaller departments out there (in the U.S.) that are still playing catch-up. So the police gun vault that we see in the first episode isn't that difficult to believe in. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:41, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

==Herschel's Shotgun==
is it just me or did herschel's shotgun have like unlimited ammo, cause he was just laying those shells into the zombies like a boss

:Yeah, I was thinking that too, when I watched the episode. I think he reloaded maybe once, and was able to get off upwards of 20 shells out of that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:08, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

::Yep. Evidently I wasn't around when the local Cabelas was selling the special Remington 870 "Hollywood" configuration. Darn it. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:16, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Herschel's SIG ==

Is it just me or does it look a tad too short to be a P226? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 00:11, 29 March 2012 (CDT)
:It also has a rounded trigger guard which makes it a P228/ --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:46, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

==Mossberg HS12==
Uh, are there ANY other screencaps of this gun? The one we have does NOT prove that it is a Mossberg HS12 on its' own. I'm sure that there are other screenshots available (I don't work on this page so I count on others to do it). But right now it is a vague and nondistinct image and thus a new gun page for the Mossberg HS12 was created just for this one entry. We need to verify that this gun ID is correct. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:55, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Season 3 Mystery suppressed Gun ==

Just found this image online. It's apparently a season 3 sneak peek snapshot. What is Rick holding? Almost looks like a two tone glock with a stielhandgranate taped to it, stick pointing towards us.... but its obviously not=P
http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/4/46/Rick.JPG
:Definitely looks like a glock. The can looks like a big Mag-lite to me. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] 21:33, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

::I'm making an assumption, but it's safe to say it's the same Glock 17 he used in the season 2 finale. Seems like he will be using this pistol along with his Colt Python a lot next season. The suppressor was a pleasant surprise. Given the situation in the show, it's probably just a crude, homemade suppressor made with whatever materials he could scrounge.

I think it might be one of the Russian PBS suppressors, I have to agree with ^ it is good to see a suppressor for once when facing zombies.[[User:Recon42|Recon42]]

The suppressor looks like the one that you see on a mac-10 in desperado image and the silencer in that image looks similar.[[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

For sure it's a Glock, however I was thinking it was a crude homemade suppressor, [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 19:28, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

Remember Rick has T Dog's glock(shane hid his then took t dog's and rick took it when he killed shane) and the suppressor does look like a mac 10 suppressor bt it is likely homemade. --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 08:50, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

I think it is a home-made suppressor made from a [http://www.maglite.com/D_Cell_LED.asp Maglite 2 D-cell torch] (or maybe the 3 cell is hard to tell from that shot). The tube with a hole drilled in the base cap alternating between fabric packing and empty chambers would probably kind of work as a suppressor, hard bit would be somehow attaching the lamp end to the muzzle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:59, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

On the talking dead, the producers state it is a flashlight as a makeshift suppressor --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 11:11, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== First look at David Morrissey ==

First picture of David Morrissey as the Governor is up, he'll be the chief antagonist for some time to come on the show. One of his men in the background is holding something in his hand over his shoulder...can anyone make it out?

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=91132

Too blurry, but my first thought was some form of speargun:
http://i.pgcdn.com/pi/1/87/67/18767193_260.jpg
Then again, I just got back from Cancun so I got fishing on the mind =P
--[[User:Geckcgt|Geckcgt]] 01:02, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

The Governor appears to carry a silver/nickel semi-automatic, possibly a 1911 variant, with black grips in a cross draw holster. Looking forward to more detailed screencaps. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 12:12, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== Season 3 ==

Season 3 trailer is up, lots of footage to comb through! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbcXvotzU2k

Im willing to screencap it but its to low quality for me. Maybe someone else can [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 09:09, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

Merle is back. Hopefully this season will have a bit more zip than Season 2. With the exception of the last couple episodes S2 was a little on the slow side. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 09:14, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

In the trailer I can see a helicopter from the UH-1 series along with an MG that I could not ID due to the low quality also the prison had some firearms available inside, Rick used a used a silenced handgun that may be a Glock. Also what kind of firearms would be availible to prison guards anyways? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I uploaded some caps and put them on the page. [[User:theman838|theman838]]

The handgun used by Rick is some kind of Glock, yeah (there was a large poster of Rick holding it in the background on The Talking Dead last week), but they said the "silencer", prop-wise, is actually a flashlight. lol [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:17, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

Merle's bayonet is a WWII M1 Bayonet my grandfather gave me his when he past.

Should we put the armorer showing an m4a1 and at4 on talking dead on the page for behind the scenes ?

== Unknown weapons ==

Please, I know that this is a discussion about T.W.D tv series but can someone add the gas grenade of Hell Of The Living Dead film? I request this because this is a zombie film/tv discussion!

:No, this is a discussion about TWD, not a general zombie genre discussion. If you have anything to say about ''[[Hell of the Living Dead]]'', you might try putting it on the talk page for that film. Also, there's no need to double post. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:37, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

== Page to crowded for another season ==

I think we should create a new page for season 3 when in comes out for new shots of the guns do to the fact this page already has 2 seasons on it and a third would make it too crowded.--[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] 16:24, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:Too long you say? [[The Unit]] and [[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3]] didn't seem too bad, i think its more about cleaning it up rather than how many articles, such as limiting 3-4 photos per Firearm (two screens and one of the Firearm) rather than the random stack at the moment (The Python currently has 10 photos). [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 15:55, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

User:Scarecrow

2012-09-25T19:55:31Z

Scarecrow:

that random aussie guy.

Maybe i should add more to this page >_>

Talk:The Walking Dead (TV Series)

2012-09-25T19:55:05Z

Scarecrow: /* Page to crowded for another season */

==OTHER==
That's Norman Reedus with the crossbow. He plays Daryl Dixon, who was not in the actual comic that I can recall. I like that though, he's a cool actor. I'm also a little bummed that they didn't use the guns drawn in the comics. Rick uses a HK mk.23. For those of you who might think that it's impossible to tell that from the comic the artist wrote HK MK.23 on the barrel. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I read some where that the Walker are attracted to loud noises. that might be why he is carrying a crossbow

It is smart to use a crossbow; because it saves on bullets and in most all undead literature and movies the undead always react and swarm when they hear a gunshot. Very good show, have never read the comic but look forward to.-GoshMr.Peabody

It's pretty amazing. I recommend buying the trade paperbacks. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Not only does a crossbow save on ammo and is silent, crossbow bolts can be retrieved and reused repeatedly before they bend, dull, break, or otherwise can't be used any longer. In effect, Daryl has essentially a near-infinite source of ammunition. As for Rick, I think the Python suits him better. It has personality, the Mark 23... not so much. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:43, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==Whoa==
I loved the comic, when the hell did it get a tv show?

The idea was revealed a while ago. It comes out on Halloween. -SasquatchJim

honestly , its like two hours till the show ,i cant wait. simmons 8492

Well it kept my interest. I'll watch it again next week to see if it can maintain the momentum.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

honestly it took some time to realy get things going , but now hes in a populated zone with other survivers . and if i was him id start that tank up! simmons 8492

I coulda sworn the 50 on that tank was still loaded with ammo and in the next scene, it had no ammo [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Just watched it again. The .50 on the tank doesn't appear to be loaded, but there's another one in a sandbag fort that is, in the foreground as he goes by. -IGemini 04:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

iv watched it from the start and i have to say its great simmons 8492

== Crappy dialogue ==

In the trailer, one of the cops told the other to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off. First off, the man he was talking to, had a Glock, so no safety. And since he's a trained cop, ready to open fire on a suspect that's hostile, why wouldn't he have a round in the chamber and his gun ready to go? That line just threw me off [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, just watched it. Its brilliant, easily as good as the comic. The 'crappy dialogue above does jar a little tho. Hes telling him to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off as it is implied the officer in question is a bit useless, however after doing a brass check the officer in question then presses down on the slide release (even tho the slide is forward) as if to pretend it is the saftey catch. Morgan has a 5 shot snub revolver (which someone else will have to identify as im not too good with em). Rick pull a 92fs (standing in for an m9) from a dead soldiers shoulder holster at the end of the episode, and i'm fairly sure the SIG is a tutone P228 or 229 not a P239 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe Basset is so damn useless that he hasn't even figured out that Glocks don't come with manual safeties... --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:28, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing about the thing with the safety is that you can hear the sound of a safety being click off.--[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 04:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Remember that the dialogue was written long before it was decided the cop would be holding a Glock(unless the writer is Michael Mann). So maybe the round in the chamber thing may have been unwarranted, but maybe he was a rookie, he did seem sort of skittish. Regardless, it's unfair to call ''that'' crappy dialogue. I think you're letting your knowledge of guns get in the way of enjoying good stories.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 04:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Dont know if its worth noting, but the cop he tells that too, is actually, the first zombie he ends up shooting, after leaving the police station. Rick commented he was careless and dumb, so reminding him, makes sense.

And, of course, Rick committed a cardinal sin; he referred to a magazine as a clip :P -SasquatchJim

I'm not surprised, Sasqatch. The cop I talked to called his Glock 17 a "Glock 9". I'm sure he would have said clip to. Not all cops are into guns. Haha

:He also could have meant "Glock 9mm", you know, since "9" is common shorthand for 9mm. When has anyone referred to .45 ACP as "11.43mm"? Hell, I once had a conversation with a Korean War vet about 1911s and when I referred to the cartridge by its dimensions, he had a dumbfounded look on his face and "corrected" me, telling me that the 1911A1 was "a 45, not no 11-something". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:51, 27 February 2012 (CST)

==SIG P239==

[[Image:WalkingDead-SIGP239.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|A chase suspect emerges from the wrecked car firing a two-tone SIG P239 at police.]]

This doesn't look like a P239 to me; more like a P226 or P228. It's too big, and it has nickel controls (which the two-tone P239s don't have). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:P228 because of the slide length. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Remember, on low resolution screencaps like the ones I had to use, feel free to correct the Gun IDs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::: Watching the scene I agree that it is somewhat larger. Sounds fine to me - I'll change it. The first episode was pretty good. I'm adding a Beretta 92FS (M9) entry - Grimes indeed takes one off a 'dead' soldier inside the Abrams tank he gets into, as noted by the above section. Also, I never did get a good glance at the snub revolver, though I'm fairly certain it's a S&W. They're replaying the show so I'll keep an eye for it, and some of the other guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

==Spoiler Comment and Morgan's Revolver==
Its nice to see the page updated but arn't some of the descriptions (mainly the colt python) a bit spoilerific for anyone who hasn't watched it yet? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Whoa, yes they are, I sure as hell didn't add those. :b I'll reword them somewhat. Also! The revolver Morgan uses is a Snub S&W Model 66, I can almost guarantee it. Bah, wish I could get screencaps. Still, I'll add that as well. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure its a 66? I remember it having a 5 round cylinder --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I grabbed this off my skyplus box so sorry bout the quality [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2i700fm.jpg[/IMG] Any use, its definatly a 5 shot--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: I could have ''sworn'' it was a S&W. But it's definitely not a Model 66, since there's no rear adj. sights, nor of course a 6-shot cylinder. But Smith snubbie J-frames (5-shot) all have flat 'bull-nose' ejector rod shrouds, not curved. Bah, now I'm kinda stumped. My best guess at this point would probably be a [[Ruger SP101]]. Convert that image there to JPG and upload it on the site. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::Looks like it could also be either the [[Taurus Model 617]] or possibly a stainless steel [[Taurus Model 85]]. Biu it is difficult.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

From the barrel it looks like an early Taurus Model 85 in stainless or nickel plated. It was a five shot cylinder definitely.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: After posting I did consider it being a Taurus, many of them are awfully S&W looking to begin with. I doubt it's a 617 but it easily could be an 85. Hell, could be anything for all I know at this point. I guess it'll just be another 'unidentified' until we get more/better screencaps. I'll modify the S&W 66 entry I posted and just call it un-ID'd snub revolver, noting the 5-shot capacity and stating the possible choices. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I am almost certain it is actually a Ruger SP101, two inch model. No other snubbie, as far as I know, has the upper rear of the frame shaped into a rear sight notch like the SP101, as both of those Taurus models just lack rear sights - you can check the Taurus website as both models lack a "rear sight" category under specifications. Also, if you check out the behind the scenes vid [http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/?bclid=625294007001&bcpid=111717822001&bctid=628200502001 here], there is a pretty decent side shot of the revolver. The general shape is very close to a SP101, and even from the front, the lines on Morgan's triggerguard and barrel are cut much closer semi-melted look on the SP than the very sharp ones on a Taurus oR S&W.

All said, the easiest way to tell would be if they showed the damned cylinder release at some point. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 07:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC) (Corrected typo --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 02:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

: It's not an SP101. The recoil shield shown is a simple traditional shape, not the bulkier contours Rugers have in that part of the frame. Also, the ejector rod shroud is cut back more sharply from the muzzle, and the revolver in the show seems to lack the small hole on the front of the frame for the front crane lock. [[User:Rule .303|Rule .303]] 14:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Judging by the screens uploaded I'd say definately not a 617, 617 is a 7-shot, also can't see a ported barrel. Still think it's a Taurus though. [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 09:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

If you watch the Making of the Walking dead Season 1 it shows the side of the revolver.. Looks exactly like the Ruger SP101 from Breaking Bad. I'm guessing its the same prop. (Just like I think the RV is. )

: It's definately not a Ruger SP101. As to the comment of the SP101 being unique with regards to the rear notch site. Nope. All snubbies have that. I have both the Taurus 85 (old shape) and the Taurus 85 Stainless. Looks much more like that due to the unique underlug on the revolver. Also look at the SP101's front. http://www.dayattherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sp101target8.jpg Definately not what we are seeing in these screen captures. [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 07:25, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It appears to be a Taurus 405 to me. Looks large-bored, probably .40S&W so that would match the 405. The front sight is tiny from that back angle which also matches the 405, the cylinder backing plate is the same etc. krispic 21:36 Feb 22 2012

== What kind of tank was that? ==

Its oviously a stand-in for an M-1 but I'm not sure what it is. I'm thinking possibly a Chieftain, but I'm not sure. Also, note that a real M-1 woulnd't have worked for the scene since it lacks the floor escape hatch.

-AC.

:I'm also reasonably certain the 82nd Airborne Division doesn't have tanks in their TO&E, yet the (un)dead soldier in the tank had an 82nd patch on his left shoulder. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 07:32, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

Well i would imagine that in the chaos of the zombie apocalypse lots of soldiers ended up with other units doin jobs they aren't really trained for.

Actually smaller units are frequently attached (I believe the Brits call it seconded) to other units for mission purposes. Some armor battalions spent the whole campaign in France (WW II, 1944-1945) being attached to various infantry units - to include the airborne. After all the elements of the 9th and 10th armor divisions that were in Bastogne during the siege fell under the 101st Airborne for the duration of that battle. Funny how the airborne mafia always seems to forget about all the ''other'' troops that fought in that battle. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:17, 23 August 2011 (CDT)

At this point I'm not sure, but I do suspect it's the same tank that shows up in ''[[Zombieland]]''. Both shows are filmed in Georgia and the voice-over commentary on ''Zombieland'' states that the tank is owned by a private collector.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Definately a Chieftain.

: I concur, Chieftains are often used (mocked-up) as stand-ins for Abrams tanks. I also noticed the bottom escape hatch, which as far as I can recall, indeed isn't on an actual Abrams. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

''Other comments posted on main page-''

(Perhaps it is just me, but the Abrams featured in this appears to be a mocked up British Chieftain Tank, I didn't get a good look at the tank but it didn't seem to be a genuine Abrams, although it could simply be an older pattern M1 without the TUSK upgrade, reactive armor and the more apparent loaders hatch. Yet that would not explain the escape hatch.- Doc345)

Older M1s didn't look that diffrent, from the later ones, aside from the most recent upgardes.

Also, the angle of the frontal turret armor is wrong to be an M1.

I think this may be the same tank which appeared in, among other series, Jericho. The vehicle, if I remember correctly, is built on an old Centurion chasis to resemble an Abrams with some obvious differences. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

On a random note, where was a Striker seen in the episode? It says on the page that there was one with a fifty cal on it, but aside from the tank, the only other military vehicles I saw where some HMMWVs, what looked like a deuce, and a half, and some abandone Hueys.

Intrestingly, in the trailor, the one Rick first sees after leaving the hospital lacked a rotor blade making me think it was edited in post-production. Also, the one off to Ricks left appears to still be lacking one.

-AC

at the begging seen when the main cerictor walkes out of the hospital he sees a ebandoned military equpent you can see a Stryker IFV --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 21:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
heres a picture
[[Image:The walking dead.png]]

I can say without a doubt that the 'M1' ''is'' a Chieftain, not a Centurion. The long sloping frontal 'nose' armour, the front idler wheel and the lockers/storage bins are features of the Chieftain, not the Centurion. Not too sure about the 'escape hatch' though. I wonder if this is the same 'M1' that appears in the 2010 remake of Red Dawn? It looks the same to me. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

*Naw, that one they've actually made some modifications to like building up the hull and turret to be more Abrams-like and putting an M1-style bulge over the cylindrical fume extractor. This is just a Chieftain with a fake M2 awkwardly perched on top of the hatch weapon mounting. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:07, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

== Things I noticed ==

Did anybody else notice that when Morgan cocked the hammer back on his gun and threatened to shoot Grimes if he didn't talk, the cylinder didn't advance to the next chamber like it should?

And what about Grimes' personal arsenal in his backpack? Is it safe to assume that rubber/resin mockups? He was getting bounced pretty hard by that horse and the guns kept bumping him in the back. That's at least 40 pounds of gear to be carrying around.

More than safe to assume that. Most of them even appeared to have solid barrels. Probably rubber.--[[Special:Contributions/99.48.50.70|99.48.50.70]] 04:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The cylinder did rotate, I remembered that happening when I watched the scene. As far as the bag -o- guns, I have no idea. If they were all rubber, they were modeled after some hard to find shotgun configurations and looked very real. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 20:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Grimes in episode 3 his duffle bag was holding six shotguns, two "high powered" rifles, a dozen handguns, and 700 rounds of assorted ammo. That's easily 80-90 pounds of gear. There's no way Grimes could be carrying that around in one hand with a gas can in the other. Or getting bucked and having the bag sag to the side and the stuff not come falling out.

Did anybody else notice that Dale seemed to switch between carrying a rifle with a sling, to carrying one without a sling between scenes?

== I rewatched the first episode. ==

Two of the Sheriffs deputys from the neighboring county had shotguns. One looked like and 870 Remington. The other looked like a Mossberg.

The gun used to shoot Rick, I'm pretty sure was either 1911, or a Glock. It seemed to have an extended slide.

-AC

:: I noticed the shotguns too but it was hard to get a decent look at them, mainly the second one (Mossberg I guess). I will concur at least one of the other shotguns was indeed a standard 870. No idea what the pistol is/was. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Almost positive the other two deputys, from the neighboring county had Glocks, like the other deputys from Ricks department.

You can see one of the shotguns fairly well, after Rick gots shot, one of the two deputys joins Shane in trying to help Rick. Like Shane, he drops his gun, and it can be seen fairly well.

Looking at the pick on here, I'm more positive than ever that the last gunmans weapon was a 1911.
Good eye on my part, since it was litreally visible for like less than a second.-AC.

==Andrea's gun==
I believe Andrea is packing a Smith and Wesson 3913 Ladysmith [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I concur. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Here's a good picture. http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-2-rick-andrea.php
[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:: I also agree about it being a 3913 Ladysmith. We also saw a M67 'baseball' grenade in this latest episode (actually the training version, you could still spot some blue paint on it). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of rifle did Meryl have? ==

Looked like possibly a Model 70, but I'm bad at identifing bolt actions.
-AC

Seriously, does anyone know what kind of rifle he had?-AC

Compare the bolt heads (or whatever the end of the bolt closest to the butt is called); the Remington 700 seems to have more of a protruding portion, while the Mod. 70 is tucked in and more square-like.

At least, that's what it seems like. There used to be a generic page for comparing Bolt-Action Rifles, like the shotguns have now. Where did that page go?

Here it is.

[[Bolt Action Rifles - Most common Sporting Models|Scoped Bolt Action Hunting Rifles]]. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

==Shane's Pistol==
Can anyone identify the pistol Shane is carrying? It looks like either a Glock or possibly a Sig Pro. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Probally a Gock. There very common cop guns, in both hollywood, and real life. Also, severael of the cops, at opening shootout had them, so evedently the prophouse they went to had some.
-AC

Definitely a Glock. Although it's only shown briefly, it looks like a 17. He carries it in a thumb break holster. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

Picture of him holding it: http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-4-carl-lori-shane-morales.php

After looking at the screenshot on the main page, can anyone identify the holster?

In the finale you can see its a Glock 19. Not 17. (Also the firing M4s looked like they had blank firing adapters as flashiders)

Definitely a 17 in the last episode when shane opens the barn doors and shhots all the walkers he fires too many rounds for it to be a 19

This is getting tiresome now, stop identifying guns based on the amount of rounds that they fire! It's a TV series where in editing they can easily make a 15 round magazine last for 80 rounds (see John Woo films) --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:27, 2 January 2012 (CST)

==Merle==

It's Merle not Maryl or Marle

==Guts==
I really like how Rick actually checks the dead soldier's vest for more ammo instead of just taking the weapon like every other film. I also like how when his Beretta runs dry he doesn't toss it away like some generic action hero but he keeps it and stows it in Glenn's backpack. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that was good stuff. Have yet to see the Beretta again though. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:Did you also notice that his [[Colt Python]] is still in his hoslter even though he ran out of ammo for it? I liked that touch as well. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

You never know what you might find ammo for at a latter date.-AC
::Which he does in the third episode. Anyway Python's are too expensive to be tossing away on a whim. Even after the Zombie Apocalypse has happened. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

If I recall right they've been outta production since the late 90s.

::The last Python was manufactured approximately six years ago. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Still outta production than. If I recall right, for a while it was outta generael production, but could be special ordered.

Yes the last five or six years it had to be ordered through the custom shop.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The Python, and The Anaconda, where the best revolvers Colt made since the SAA imho-AC

IMO, the Official Police and Detective Special should be included as well. -SasquatchJim

Too bad that still fully loaded .50 next to the tank is too heavy to take back [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If he can walk and ride a horse with a 90lb bag on his back like its nothing, he could carry a M2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

And he brought buddies with him to GET that bag he left behind. They can lug around an M2 with ammo. Sure it doesn't look like there's any extra, but it's an M2 with AMMO! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

But honestly, what would be the purpose, in this story? I mean, they're already getting guns and ammo, and it's not like you need a lot of penetration to kill a zombie, so they don't really need a .50 caliber machinegun. All it would really do was kill a couple of zombies while making a shitload of noise, attracting every zombie in a mile radius. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 05:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

: I bet one would've come in handy on top of the camper during the attack on the camp. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::Possibly (I posted that before I saw that episode, sorry.), though I doubt any of them have any training or even any practice with military grade machine guns, and so I'm betting that during the chaos of the attack, they would have killed more of their own people. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:43, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
::: Woulda been kinda hard to use that thing in the dark, too, since the only source of light is that campfire. Scoring headshots on zombies without friendly fire in a situation like that? No way even TV-land can pull THAT one off.

Talking about scavenging guns, even when they were rushing back to the vehicles in front of the CDC wouldn't it have been a good idea to at least grab a couple of the discarded weapons lying around out front?

==Vatos==
Ok, tonight I think I've seen a S&W model 10, a Colt Detective Special, and possibly a S&W mosel 28 in the hands of the mexican gangsters and it looks like T-Dog was using a BAR. The bag had some Sigs and Glocks and Daryl had a Remington 870 and I think that Rick is using a Mossberg 590 not a 500. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't edit the page tonight, I just wrote on here. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Daryl took at least one Sig from the bag. T-Dog used a Mossberg later, but I think his scoped rifle was a BAR. The shotty Glenn ended up with, looked the same as Daryl's. Also, Shane drew his pistol at one point, but it was hard to see.-AC
==Daryl's Crossbow==
Daryl Dixon's crossbow is a Horton Scout HD 125: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2817217&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch. In the fourth episode "Vatos", when Daryl points it a T-dog on the roof you can see the faded Horton logo on the front. Scout 125 can be seen above the trigger after the camera angle changes. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

::Picture added and changes made. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Was that an XD? ==

The handgun, that Daryl takes from the bag of guns. At first I thought it was a SIG, but after rewatching it, I think it may have been a Springfield Army XD.
-AC

Nope, definitely a bi-tone Sig of some kind.

Yeah, the XDs don't have all that stuff on the side of the gun and the slide is actually more Glock like than the more rounder Sig slides [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Walkingdeadsig.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rick Grimes ([[Andrew Lincoln]]) inspects a bi-tone Sig Sauer handgun from his bag of guns.]]

- ZeoRanger5 17:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

that looks like a SIG-sauer P226 or P228. simmons 8492

I agree with simmons 8492, i'd say p228 myself.

How did you think that was an XD?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 14:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. When I stuck it in his waistband, it looked like a combination between a Sig, and a Glock. As far as handguns go, I'd say the XD is closest to that description. Course I was rather sleep deprived at the time.-AC

i also think that in episode 5 shane pulls what looks to be a sig when the sister is coming back to life . im not sure because i know shane has a glock but this isnt in the holster , its carried mexican style and is only seen for seconds. can some one verify ?[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Rick also pulls a gun carried similarily in that scene. Ricks looked like a Glock.

but shanes looks more like a sig or something .[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Some ones gotta move that pic into the 228 spot.[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:It's not a P228. The screencap doesn't show it well, but I checked the episode again, and it's possible to see that it has the squared trigger guard of the P226, rather than rounded, as on a P228. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

==Faking recoil==

Its a littlle overdone but nice to see it (a HP in 9mm doesnt kick as much as shown, but its better than most shows, and handling is pretty good or tv.

may be because he hasent realy fired a 9mm in a while he wasnt use to it or because hes used to the revovler

That makes no sense, .357 Magnum (I'm guessing thats what is loaded) has alot more kick, if he can handle a .357 than he could easily handle a 9mm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:02, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

and im sure that a python has more kick than that highpower . and being that he killed a hand full of zombies with that in the first episode it wont matter .-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:Just a FYI, its Hi Power, not High Power.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Since most people don't know the distinction between a Hi-Power and a Colt M1911, and the show is known to have certain..flaws when it comes to reality, they could have just been assuming that it was a .45, and Hollywood logic states that if it's larger than 9mm, it makes your wrist fly up and sends bad guys flying.

Or it was just because they wanted Rick to seem cool with a stainless steel firearm (like his Colt Python, which he points at other survivors so often, it could be a drinking game).

But being seriously, this is the same show where Glocks have external, slide-mounted safeties in the US and headshots can be made off-hand with a sidearm at 50 meters while running.

AUA/

:I haven't been able to watch the series only the first episode (no cable) but... The Python is a heavy revolver and could be loaded with .38 Specials. Also with the Hi-Power being a semi-auto and able to shoot more rapidly. Would have more perceived recoil. Seeing guys on YouTube handle .45s with very little recoil, it's shotguns and full auto rifles where movies get recoil wrong. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==DShK heavy machine gun?==

I believe there was an abandoned DShK heavy machine gun flanked by sandbags when they headed towards the CDC building by the looks of the muzzle. (This was the best episode so far, I think.) - Angel_956

Most likely a mocked up M2 but I definatly saw that distinct muzzle brake.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I added a cap but you cannot really tell one way or another if it is a mock up or not. Either way...it makes no sense for it to be there in the first place!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was thinking. Why would an outdated Soviet Union machine gun even be in the show, but it might be cleared up in the next episode. I clearly remember the guy in the CDC building saying something about some French soilders, I think. If so it might of meant that there was an international response to the zombie outbreak, trying to control it, explaining the DShK. [[User:Angel_956|Angel_956]]

:Now your just over-analyzing, it's in all likeliness what they used because it's what was available to use when they were shooting the scene. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

:Maybe somebody "requisitioned" (read: looted) it from the National Infantry Museum or Fort Benning; both are in or around Columbus, GA, which isn't exactly close to Atlanta, but it's the closest place I can think of where you might plausibly find a DShK. When you need more HMGs, you grab what's available. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 20:18, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Weird though, since they obviously had M2s available for filming.-AC

:Not necessarily. Armorers can change during filming and weapons may not be available even though they were previously. Also remember that only the first episode had the M2 so the armorer could have changed since then. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, those M2HBs are still there in episodes 2 ("Guts," when Grimes escapes from the tank) and 4 ("Vatos," when Glenn goes to retrieve the Bag O' Guns) and they pass at least two M2HBs on the way to the CDC's front door after they pass the DShK. They weren't just there for the pilot. --[[User:Euromutt|Euromutt]] 09:18, 25 June 2011 (CDT)

My thought was militia that made a last stand with the army to protect the people gathering at the CDC (notice the weapon is surrounded by bodies in civilian clothes), the DShK having been purchased by one of the members (legitimately or otherwise) and subsequently put to use following the outbreak. - Wolfblade670

Maybe the Russians dropped in tom VDV to help protect the CDC. -Jakezergling

:I, umm, highly doubt that... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:30, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, Russia would have enough trouble fighting the Walkers on their own turf, considering that Russia is easily 2 times the size of continental United States. Besides that, do the Russians even use the DshK anymore? I do believe it's been phased out by the Kord since the late 90s/early 2000s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:18, 27 February 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's knife ==

In the third episode, when Daryl is told about his brother, he attacks Rick with some sort of hunting or combat knife. He's later seen with it in a sheath on his left thigh, and you get a fairly close (But very brief) look at it when they're walking through the building at the beginning of the forth episode. Anyone have any clue what it is? I mean, from the brief glimpse I got of it in the forth episode, it looked like it was possibly a TOPS Steel Eagle 107C, the same kind of knife that the character Royce had sheathed in Predators, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm, or give an alternative? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

It's actually a Busse Combat Team Gemini with a bead blasted finish and black and tan layered g10. Gerber is now supplying knives to the show as well, as seen in the season 2 premiere when Carl finds a full roll in and abandon vehicle. The list of models is on their FB page. [[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]]

: I would agree that Daryl does have a Busse Combat Team Gemini. A clear profile-type photo of Daryl's knife was featured in the "story sync" for the eighth episode of the second season on the AMC website. Here's a link to that image: http://www.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/208-17.jpg --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:24, 23 February 2012 (CST)

== What kind of gun did he give Morales? ==

He said it was a .357, but I have no idea what it was.-AC

/AUA

He held it in his hand for a profile shot; maybe you should try screencapping it at that point and going from there. There should be an ID for it though, unlike Morgan's snubnose.

AUA/

I lack the equipment needed to screencap.-AC

/AUA

Use IrfanView (freeware) or the PrtScn button on your computer (press it on the frame you want to capture, and then paste it into Paint to crop it).

AUA/

I think it's a Smith and Wesson 586 [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

== Rick's second shotgun.==

After Rick gives the 590 (it wasn't a 500, someone should change that) to Guillermo, he uses one with an 18 inch barrel, a blued type finish and wood furniture. I think some people commented on it being a Mossberg, but it has a rounded bolt like a Remington 870. However, it's not an 870 since the trigger guard isn't round enough, the magazine tube is longer than the standard 4 shot tube, and it doesn't have an extension attached, and the wood furniture has a single rib on the side for gripping. After doing some research, my best guess is that it's an earlier H&R Pardner Pump, possibly in some sort of police configuration. I know it's neither a Mossberg or a Remington, though.

It's indeed an H&R Pardner Pump. The humpback receiver is unmistakable. [Ballistics_Expert2]

/AUA

I'd PrtScn/screencap the shotgun in question before making any comparisons. We still haven't definitively IDed Dale's bolt-action, so maybe you should get one of that as well.

AUA/

We still have Merles bolt-action as well.
-AC

This cap from the page will suffice:

[[Image:WD870ep05.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Rick with his Remigton, when he and Shane patrol the woods (Episode 5).]]

And a link to a Pardner Pump configured similarly:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/TRguy/Guns/NEFPardnerPumpYouth8-12-10.jpg

A few things distinguishing the shotgun in the picture as a Pardner Pump as opposed to an 870, 500 series, or whatever:

-Some type of thin rib on the top of the barrel.
-The foregrip has the distinctive groove in it as seen on the Pardner Pump.
-The agnle that the receiver curves at the butt end is a sharper angle rather than a bend type (you can tell by the shadow).
-The magazine tube is longer than a 4 shot, but it's not screwed on like other models, nor does the endcap and barrel link resemble that of other models.

Some other things that you can't notice in the picture, like the flatter trigger guard or a good shot of the angled receiver, are seen in the series very easily, namely in Episode 5 during Rick and Shane's patrol, when this cap takes place, and one instance in Episode 6 where the doctor is drawing blood and the gun is sitting behind Rick as he waits. This good enough? --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 10:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think you're right, it's not a Remington, Mossberg, or a Winchester. It looks like a Pardner, more like the Pardner pump compact, due to the shorter barrell. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 23:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

-Rick's first shotgun was a 500 with the extended tube. It didn't have the bayonet lug, just check some of the promo pics on imbd.com - [[User:MarkXIX|MarkXIX]]

Ah, so it is, I could have sworn I saw the 590s tube cap on it. I can notice a buncha stuff on an H&R, but I get that wrong, lol. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 17:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Rick's shotgun, from the end of Vatos and on, was a Pardner Pump, but I don't think it was a 20 gauge. Sometimes, hunting model guns can have the vent-rib barrel cut down, to where it is a riot shotgun. I see that as being more plausible. --[[User:1897Reloaded|1897Reloaded]] 11:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

==Think its funny==

Rick misses several close range shots (so do long gun toting officers) in the beginning against chase suspects, then later in series hes nailing headshots left and right....

Noticed that too, although zombies don't shoot back. They just charge straight ahead.

/AUA

It's a screenplay-direction thing. The show is already a bit overdramatized in general, so little things like the 'clip' and 'safety' dialogue or the headshot ratio aren't really all that important to the screenwriters, at least not compared with inserting dramatic bits into it.

AUA/

When the police were shooting the chase suspects, their targets were live people. An accurate marksman or not, if you're not used to firing live rounds at live humans your subconscious may not want you to hit that kill shot. Zombies are different.

also he has had weeks of shooting live targets ie the zombies so he as probaly leared to shot them really well --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Unless you're superhuman, you can't learn how to make a shot that is off-hand, behind you, at a 1.5 x 1 ft target at 50 meters, while RUNNING, in a few weeks. Few people would be able to make that shot, period. The gate-zombie shots were just...unfeasible.

AUA/

*Well it is a show about the dead walking around and eating the flesh of the living. I'm willing to overlook the amazing skill that Rick displays with headshots.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:28, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

==Question about Shane's shotgun technique==
Just a question for those who may know, is it considered proper technique to hold the gun that high on the shoulder, with his cheek resting on the receiver? I figuered it was an adjustmant made due to the M4-style stock, as Rick and other survivors wielding unmodified weapons don't do this.

: I noticed that too, I figured it was just the actor's preference (possibly due to inexperience) but I guess it could be because of the M4 stock. I dunno. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

:It's standard practice in the US military. They teach you to ride the stock high so that your sights are level with your eyes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Thats with the M16/M4, not a shotgun.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:the stock on the shotgun is a Knoxx Industries SpecOps NRS Shotgun Stock

::My dad has one on his 870.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

-i noticed that . i dont think that stock has a single thing to do with it . it probably prefrances [[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Considering the US military teaches you do to that with a M4, the stock is pretty much the same as the M4 so I could see why he's doing it. Also I don't get the feeling that any of the actors are really inexperienced, they all seem to be trained well in regards to weapons. Least Rick and Shane do.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:18, 8 March 2012 (CST)

==Series Finale==

I noticed a nickel finished pistol tucked into Daryl's waistband mexican style early on in the episode, looked like a SIG.
I'm thinking that Daryl's pistol was probably the same Hi-Power Rick took off merle in episode 2.

Does any one else think the grenade description is a bit of a spoiler as it is a deus ex machina. I suggest only saying it is used in episode 6 and not how. I know this has absoloutely nothing to do with firearms but i loved the ax decapitation amidst the headshots at the end --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

:The grenade wasn't a deus ex machina, but a textbook example of Chekhov's gun. He found it in the first episode even. It would have been a deus ex machina if they found it there.(I expected him to actually bring it out against the guys in the city in episode 3, myself)--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 08:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, New guy here. When Jenner allows the the others to enter the facility at the start of the episode, he's seen holding an M4, and he mentions that "There're a lot of these lying around. I familiarized myself." And yet, none of the others ever even think of finding a couple of the guns for themselves. Shame, considering a couple of those and a few mags would've come in pretty handy outside (especially if there was a suppressor to be found) Anyone else bugged by this?

They've been sitting outside for like a month. The M4 is a fine, gun, but you need to clean it regularly.-AC

:Only if your in the desert sand, sitting around like that outside would be fine but not how I would store my guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I was definitely bugged by this fact. Supposedly a lot of M4s and 30 round magazines lying around, and Jenner's the only guy who has one. But then again the supply of ammo might've been low, considering everything that'd happened. [[Ballistics_Expert2]]

first off all there are no M4A1`s seen inside all out side wicth iswere he probily got it second they were only out side for a few momints ehter runing away from the bulding or trying to get in before they are over welbed with zombies tird as he said ammo is preety rare as you can see when they are out side there are hunderdes of dead zombies witch had to be killed by something --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== To Do List. ==

1. Shotguns used by deputies in opening shootout.
2. Morgans revolver.
3. Merles rifle.
4. The guns, Rick, and Shane pull after Amy turns.
5. The gun given to Morales.
6. Daryls handgun.
7. Whether Shanes Glock is a 17 or 19.
8. Whether Ricks first shotty was a 500 or a 590.
9. Ricks second shotty.

I miss anything?-AC

==Short Season Huh?==

At least season 2 will be twice as long, whenever they get around to making it.....

At least there will be a seaon two, I thought this was a miniseries at first and was very dissapointed that it was over so soon. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 01:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

It's definately already in production. Normally when a series gets picked up production on the second season gets rolling ASAP. This became a pretty popular show, show I'm guessing AMC got the ball rolling right away when they realized they had demand for the show. Anyone here read the graphic novel series? I want to try and get into it but want to know if it's worth the time and money--[[User:Burgershot621|Burgershot621]] 05:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

They really are worth it. I buy the trade paperbacks, they are like $12.00 a book. There are 13 of them up to now. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Personaaly i prefer the graphic novels. Dont get me wrong i love the series, but the comics are much more grim and dark, in the series everyone seems to be more willing to get along and its more zombie orientated, the comics are much more grim, its about the characters and in the comic no characters are safe, even mainstay ones. The tv series feels slightly more commercialised and main characters have outlived their comic book life already. I do love the tv version, and darly dixion is the best non comic character creation to be added to the series, I just hope Carl gets a gun next series, that said and cant belive i have to wait till october to see series 2.- Captain Snikt [[Special:Contributions/109.157.4.163|109.157.4.163]] 23:58, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:Daryl has proven so popular that he's actually being written into the comic. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:15, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

== Popular Cop Guns ==
An answer above said that the Glock was "a very common cop gun, in both hollywood, and real life." This is true, but I was wondering if their were any other cop guns in hollywood and in real life that are as popular as the Glock.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The Beretta 92 is the only one that comes to mind for me. -SasquatchJim.

:There aren't too many police depts issuing the Beretta 92F anymore, even though Hollywood still shows them being carried by cops. Anyway, Glock holds just under 2/3rds of the U.S. law enforcement market, SIG-Sauer holds about 1/3rd, and a number of other makes (S&W, H&K, Beretta, etc.) are constantly fighting each other for what's left. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

SIG-Sauer P226, S&W M19/66, AR-15, and many more... --[[User:nkingman|nkingman]]

Ah, that's right.
Some older ones include the S&W Model 10, S&W Model 28, Colt Trooper, and a 12 gauge pump shotgun (namely a Remington 870.)
Another new one is the S&W M&P -SasquatchJim

There was once a time when the S&W Model 15/67, the S&W Model 13/65. Colt Official Police, Ruger Six Series revolvers, the S&W Model 19/66 and the Colt Lawman/Trooper Mk III were also very popular Cop revolvers.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:40, 28 March 2011 (CDT)

Glocks, S&W M&Ps, SIGs, HK USPs, S&W 5906 (4506, etc) are known for being "cop guns",
Glocks IIRC are used by 60% of the police force in the US so its kinda hard to compare

== Flash suppressor on M4A1 ==

Did anyone else notice the flash suppressor on the M4A1 held by the soldier that gets grabbed is different than normal?
:I thought it was a nongun.--[[Special:Contributions/129.89.179.105|129.89.179.105]] 01:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)(thePotShot)
::Just for reference,
::[[Image:M4A1nongun.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M4A1 Non Gun]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Yeah, it's a Non Gun M4. Look at the range at which he's shooting at his comrades. Blanks are dangerous if an actor is shooting at other actors who are that close, so they probably had to use the Non Gun instead. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:57, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, the Aimpoint M68 CCO (in this case I believe it is a Comp M2 or ML2) can be used with the foreward lens cover closed. Used in this method, it forms an occuladed eye-sight, which were one of the first types of weapons optics employed. Using an occuladed eye-sight is very similar in principle to the BAC method employed in some Trijicon ACOGs, both eyes are left open and due to the way the brain processes images from the eye, what the left (or right eye sees) downrange has the red dot from the other eye (which is looking down the sight) superimposed on it. This is useful as there are rumors that the red dot (particularly in the Aimpoint family) can in fact be detected from in front of the weapon due to the intensity of the light, espiecially in night battle conditions. So the sceintist might really know what he is doing, but it is just as likely it was a mistake by the prop department.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 22:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== I liked Rick's reaction when he pulled the pin on the grenade in the last episode ==

He was thinkin "ohshitohshitohshitohshit" and then hauled ass outta there haha. I liked that little detail, along with him getting knocked off his feet as he tried to get as far away from it as possible, instead of the clichè "walk slowly towards the camera as a bomb goes off behind you with a bad-ass grimace on your face". This show had a lot of nice little details like that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)- Yeah but its a grenade bro, you have like what 7 seconds so you can't walk away slowly from it..and also the building was about to total..-jake

Yeah, I liked that too. i hate when like the everyday joe can slowly walk away from a huge explosion,[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

I like the way that he pulled the pin and had the "Oh my GOD!" moment when he suddenly realised that he needed to run fast. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:49, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

Lol, my friend was like that fuse is burning wtf is he doing? chilling?

== Season 2 ==

Anyone seen the trailer yet for the second seaons? It's been out for a few weeks now. I jus--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)t thought it was interesting that it hasn't been mentioned here.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:57, 11 August 2011 (CDT)

I don't have the equipment for getting screencaps from TV, but the revolver Daryl took from the camper who committed suicide looks like either a Colt Cobra or Detective Special. The structure doesn't look right for being a S&W Model 10 or Model 36/37. And the slender grip profile and lack of an ejector rod housing eliminates the possibility of it being a Taurus.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

I was rewatching the season 2 premier episode and I noticed something that irked me a bit concerning the scene at the tent where Daryl found the Colt revolver. This is a series known for a great deal of firearms safety and consideration. But here we have an example of typical Hollywood gun handling. Nobody checked to see how many live rounds were in it, they just assumed it was still loaded and ready to be used. For all we know Daryl handed Laurie an empty weapon for taking on the trail back to the RV.
--[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

==Gerber Bag of Knives==

Carl ([[Chandler Riggs]]) found this bag in the first episode of the second season which contained six different gerber tool knives and machetes.

[[Image:Gerber-Zombie-Apocolypse-Knives.jpg|thumb|none|500px| So long as you use a knife, there's still a little love left.]]

In the Season 2 props video on the AMC website, they explain the endorsement and show some of the gear. The prop master also gives a look at Rick's character specific items, which includes a [http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-000582-Modified-Partially-Serrated/dp/B004DT26ME/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319921541&sr=8-2 DMF Folder]. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:58, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

Some of this bag is anachronistic though, as the knives were not invented until after the zombie apocalypse destroyed humanity, and presumably the Gerber factory. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:21, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

How do you know that though? As far as I can remember there hasn't been a date mentioned for when the zombie apocalypse happened, it could be set in the very near future. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 01:30, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:What I meant is that some of the knives have been released since the series started airing, and I'm assuming that the first episode wasn't set in the future. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:41, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
::Fair enough. I do think of it like well they haven't really set an actual date on when it occurs so anything "new" that shows up in the show is either there to look cool or it's there for some sort of product placement. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:33, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::Or both. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:35, 30 October 2011 (CDT)
:::: Touche --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:08, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

== Morgan's Revolver ==

The revolver that Morgan uses is a S&W model 60

:It can't be the Model 60 because of the curved ejector shroud. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:38, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Season 2 spoiler-ish descriptions ==

I feel like a lot of the description "updates" on the guns used (or re-used, as applicable) in Season 2 are giving too much info away. Definitely enough to qualify as spoilers to some people (like me). One shouldn't need to narrate the scene and context in which the gun appears, at least not to the extent some of the descriptions are- especially if it's giving away future happenings.

== M4 ==

I think the caption about the doctor not noticing the covers for the M68 is a little of a moot point. The doctor stated he wasnt familiar with the weapon, and simply picked it up when soldiers started dying or running away. -MissySummers-

== Dave and Tony's guns ==

In the eighth episode of the second season - "Nebraska" - two newcomers walk into the bar where Rick and Glenn found Hershel drinking alone. The strangers introduce themselves to Rick, Glenn, and Hershel as Dave and Tony. I had a difficult time identifying these two guns that Dave and Tony had. Dave's gun looked to me like it might be a SIG-Sauer P226. Tony's gun looked to me like it was some sort of sawn-off double-barrel shotgun - maybe an over/under style double barrel shotgun too. Did anybody get a good look at either one of these guns? [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:52, 21 February 2012 (CST)

After watching the episode "Triggerfinger" it looks like hershel picked up Dave's pistol which looked to me like a SIG-SAUER P228 to me. And the big guy had a cutdown pump shotgun that I think was a Remington 870 and Rick was duel weilding it with his Python when they left the bar. The kid on the roof appeared to a have a bolt action rifle but it never showed a clear pic.

: I just watched the "Nebraska" and "Triggerfinger" episodes again back to back. I would have to agree with you now on Dave's gun. It appears that Dave actually did bring a SIG-Sauer P228 into the bar in the "Nebraska" episode. I got a better look at this gun in the "Triggerfinger" episode when Hershel was armed with it. I could tell this gun was a P228 because the trigger guard was curved instead of hooked like the P226 has, plus the barrel and slide on this gun were shorter than what the P226 has. I looked very closely at Tony's shotgun too, but I don't agree with you on this one. There's no way it could have been a Remington 870. I would still say that it is a sawn-off, over/under, double barrel shotgun. (Just my opinion here, but a sawn-off shotgun would be a piss-poor gun for defending yourself against a zombie horde that is coming at you. The shot spread pattern on a sawn-off shotgun would be way too wide to be effective on any zombie's head beyond short range, and it's better to kill multiple zombies from a distance than at point blank range, right?) I also noticed that Glenn had Tony's shotgun later on in the "Triggerfinger" episode. I agree with you about that the kid on the roof though - he sure seemed to have a bolt action rifle with a scope mounted on it. What happened to it is the question now. [[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 15:59, 22 February 2012 (CST)
I just watched it again and I swore I heard a cocking sound so that could make it a pump action shotgun. You were right its not a pump action i believe its a over/under gun. [[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

: TV shows and movies usually have the cocking sound effects for guns added in for dramatic purposes. (For example, it seems that we often hear the cocking sound effect every time the script calls for one character to point a gun at somebody or something. In real life, guns are normally silent when this happens.) The Walking Dead seems to be just such a TV show. I don't know how to screen capture this yet, but I paused episode 208 at the 43:15 mark. I could clearly see the underside of Tony's gun there, and I did not see things on this gun such as a loading port, or a slide piece, both of which would be consistent with a pump action shotgun. It was all dark on that part of the shotgun instead, which to me seems more consistent with a double barrel, over/under, break action shotgun than with a pump action shotgun. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 12:55, 23 February 2012 (CST)

: I couldn't get a good look at Tony's shotgun in either "Nebraska" or "Triggerfinger". At first glance it looked like a cut down Winchester 1887 (like in T-2). I was wondering if anyone else happened to think that too? Also it almost looked like it had a synthetic stock on it which made me think it could have been the Chiappa T-Series 1887, but I don't know if those are availible yet, but again I didn't get a good enough look at it.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 20:10, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::It is a sawn off over and under (although it may be purpose made as it appeared to have a front sight present). You get a look at the gun when the guy gets up to piss, and after he is shot you see a front view of the gun showing that it is two open barrels rather than a barrel with a magazine tube underneath. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:37, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::: You're right. After rewatching the episode online and pausing just after he gets shot I could see the two barrels and also could see there is no lever either.--[[User:Fenderfiver03|Fenderfiver03]] 22:57, 23 February 2012 (CST)

Tony's shotgun looks VERY much like the MOSSBERG HS12 after another look at episode 9. When Rick searches Tony's pocket and picks up two (probably 12-ga) shotgun rounds, you can clearly see the Top/Locking Lever for opening/locking the breech contrasted against the background. In the shot just before that you can see a Picatinny or Weaver rail on top of the receiver. This clearly says "HS12" to me...and though it pretty clearly does not have a rail on the bottom of the under barrel, not all HS12s have the under-barrel rail, I think. --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]] 27 Feb 2012
:Had to Google Mossberg HS12, and I must admit I giggled a little bit at the concept of a "tactical" over/under. I watched the episodes in question the other day, and from memory at least I'd have to agree with you. It'd be nice if someone could post a picture, though.... [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 18:05, 27 February 2012 (CST)
::I will try to get an appropriate screencap uploaded; ditto for the Sig P228/229 to help resolve that one. PS "tactical" double-barrels have made ground in the last couple years or so- check out Stoeger's "tactical" SxS...just remember to bring your barf bag- they're charging the same prices for one as you'd see for a good 870 or Mossy pump. Outrageous! In any case, stupid people waste their money on them- but I digress. Tony's apparent choice of shotgun bespeaks his desperation and/or seriously limited tactical reasoning ability- which I guess we already could've figured out around the time his body hit the floor. =P --[[User:dryfireandy|dryfireandy]]

: Does the Mossberg HS12 come with sling swivel studs? I noticed that Tony was carrying his shotgun by a sling that was looped over his shoulder. Since the buttstock of this shotgun had been sawn off, there was no way to just let it hang there - he had to keep holding onto the sling with his hand instead. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 09:00, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== What caused it? ==
Does the comic ever reveal what the cause of the outbreak was? I'm not asking for spoilers as to what the cause ''was'', I'm just asking if it's ever revealed, like a "yeah, they find out what it was" or "no, they build a rocket ship and fly to Mars to restart human civilization", or something like that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:59, 27 February 2012 (CST)
:I don't think any reason has actually been given, and Robert Kirkman (writer of the comic) has stated that he doesn't plan to ever give a definitive cause. In the comic characters have speculated that it is caused by a virus that everyone in the world is infected with that causes them to reanimate after death. Because I've read the comic I already knew this so can't remember if it is made clear in the series, but it is the kind of zombie apocalypse where everyone who dies turns into a zombie, even if they die from non zombie causes (zombie bites cause infections that are 100% lethal). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 27 February 2012 (CST)

For Example a certain Main Character is shot dead at the end of the first book (in the comic they never went to the CDC, instead they just got the guns and left, but before they left the character is killed) and later in the series (maybe a book or two later, Rick returns to the place where they buried said person, and he was a zombie even though he had died by a bullet and not bite/scratch --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 09:34, 29 February 2012 (CST)

== Unidentified pistol ==

In the most recent episode, S02E11, Carl takes a pistol out of Daryl's bike. Presumably it is the same pistol Daryl used in episode S01E4. There were some pretty clear shots of the pistol when Carl is holding it, looked like a Browning, but I could be completely wrong. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 23:51, 5 March 2012 (CST)
:It was a [[Browning BDA]], not sure if this is the same gun as in S01E04 as it looks like that has a larger beavertail on the back of the grip, but is hard to tell from the shots available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:56, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Shotgun stock? ==
What type of stock is on Shane's shotgun?
--[[User:Zombie Killer 1995|Zombie Killer 1995]] 09:24, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:It says on the main article, a KNOXX SpecOps NRS stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:40, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Daryl's pistol ==

I think Daryl's unidentified pistol might be a CZ-75 series, the frame/grips seem to match it as does the general size.
:Looked more like a Browning Hi-Power to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:18, 6 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I concur with Cool-breeze. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:41, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Looked more like a Browning BDM to me.

Hey, it does not really matter at this point as the stupid kid loses in the leafs and then books it..
::He ''didn't'' lose it in the bushes. But even if he had, it still matters what it is, considering the purpose of this website. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:22, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

That actually seemed to best the best look at the handgun we see and it appeared to be a Browning Hi-Power to me as well.[[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:15, 8 March 2012 (CST)

:People are talking about two different guns here. The easily identifiable one is the one that Carl takes out of Daryl's saddle bag in the most recent episode, which is definitely a [[Browning BDA]]. There is also the pistol that only the grip is seen sticking out of his waist band in S01E04, which I think is a different pistol. One of the only features that you can make out on this pistol is that fact that it has a prominent beavertail/grip spur at the back which is does not match the BDA or BDM. Hammer is wrong for the Hi-Power, my best guess would be a CZ-75 from the relationship between the hammer and the grip spur but it is not possible to tell from this pic. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:57, 9 March 2012 (CST)

== GUN SENSE ==

Their for sure would tons of M4'S and possibly m16a4's lying around in the streets of Atlanta with moer Berettas. Why does no one go for one and why do they not ask jenner for some. Would an assault rifle not be good to kill hordes of undead? Also why did rick not get on the .50 on the tank and take out some before. Even when I see police cars don't they raid them. The only time I have seen anyone do that is when Shane and Otis use the flares from the cruiser to distract the walkers..And yes I know it is a scripted show.
------
Don't forget that the show starts a while after the zombies take over so any M4s,M16s, etc would have already been scooped up from the Atlanta streets, at least the ones people could get before the city was overrun. And they didn't ask Jenner for any because an assault rifle is actually quite cumbersome and the ammo could weigh them down even more then they already are. Also it would be pretty hard to find any ammunition for M4s/M16s as that doesn't seem to be a commonly used weapon in this show beyond the military. They don't search cop cars because as I stated, the show starts a while after the initial overrunning of cities so if people had any brains, they would have raided cop cars a long time ago. As for the Beretta statement, it seems like that is more of a military firearm as well and not a police weapon, plus they can't search every single corpse they find in the city. As to the .50 cal on the tank, notice how fast the zombies crawled on top of the tank? Rick would never have lasted, plus I don't believe there was any .50 ammo in the tank, nor in the gun. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:14, 8 March 2012 (CST)

- -

Sorry I'm new at posting on here. Good point I forgot it starts 2 week after the outbreak. But I was thinking if Otis and Shane both had automatics it may have ended differently. Also we do Rick's beretta again with Shane and Andrea in the housing developments she has it no and perfers it to her ladysmith. And as to the .50cal their was one zombie when he came out to escape he shoveled it in the face. The .50 just is a bad idea in my opinion caue its one loud mother. Also I don't understand why people carry bolt actions around, look what happend to Dale. Imagine how smooth the show would run if everyone had silenced weapons. One more thing, is anyone else hoping for the variety of guns to switch up? We know that the kid's camp has 30 men+(jude,jury,executioner)so assuming Rick's group comes up on top cause the shows been renewed for season 3. Will they get some real artiliery? (User:n Gunfan1996)

:If I remember in the first episode, Rick did bump into a tank and I coulda sworn I saw ammo in that 50 cal, but it is a bit heavy for one to carry. An Assault Rifle plus ammo is not heavy at all. A shotgun with ammo is actually more heavy and cumbersome to carry and limited range 12:46, 9 March 2012 (CST)

:There was no ammo in the tank gun.

[[Image:WalkingDead-BrowningM2HB 02.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A closeup of the mounting; note that the mounting is designed for the L7 GPMG, an FN MAG derivative, and the fake M2 simply sits on top of it. Compare to the real M2 in the foreground of the shot above.]]

:Besides, Rick was on horseback. What's he going to do, mount the .50 on the head of his horse? And it's also worth noting that he didn't have any weapons that used that ammo. A belt of .50 would be dead weight (no pun intended). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:37, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

Still dunno why Rick uses a Python though, those .357 rounds are LOUD.
Personally, I hoped someone had scooped the Doc's M4 up on the way out of the CDC, oh well....
--[[User:Geckcgt|Geckcgt]] 01:14, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

== WOW!!!!!!! AWESOME ENDING (SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!) ==

I couln' resist saying how awesome i thought S02: E12 was. That was the way to kill off Shane. Plus with the cool remix of the theme song playing as you see an army of walkers walk out onto the field. Just saying, I think Hershel or Maggie will die in the season finale. For those who missed it, here's a link: http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/talked-about-scene-episode-212-the-walking-dead-shanes-last-stand --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 14:51, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

Yep pretty good. I knew that eventually Shane was going. If I remember the comic book correctly it was Carl who killed Shane when he was going to kill rick and then Rick finished him off when he came back as a walker. So in the television show they reversed that. Liked the ending. I wonder if next season they will deal with the Governor and the Prison? --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:30, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:If you search for news of the show, te actor has already been cast, looking forward to the next season.--[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 17:14, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:The Governor has indeed been cast and no it is not Merle. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:55, 12 March 2012 (CDT) [[http://screenrant.com/david-morrissey-governor-the-walking-dead-yman-156371/]]

Nothing you guys said makes any sense because i don't read comics. Don't tell me though. I'm going to read the comics after the series finally ends. I know a friend with the complete collection who sai he is going to sell it along with DVD copies when they all come out. I WANT THAT!!!!! Check on ebay after the series comes to an end.--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 18:56, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

All I'm wondering is why did they make it so all you have to do is die to become a zombie instead of being bitten/scratched? Do they explain this as well? [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 10:00, 13 March 2012

:Almost every zombie story I've ever read, movie I've ever seen, or game I've ever played has it the same way as The Walking Dead TV series and comic book has had it - When a person dies for any reason, that same person later becomes a zombie, unless their brain has been damaged or destroyed first. So far, no explanation has been given as to exactly how this happens. My guess would be that it's all due to an airborne virus. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:56, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

Can anyone identify the knife Rick used to finally put Shane down? Was it one of the Gerbers seen frequently throughout this season, or something else? I couldn't get a close enough look.--[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 15:35, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:I paused S02/Ep12 at the 39:09 mark. That was where I could get the best look at this knife. As best I can tell, Rick used a Gerber DMF folder on Shane. I think Rick has had that same knife all throughout Season 2. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 13:19, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

I also wanted to know about a knife from episode 10 of season 2 (18 Miles Out). The knife in question is the one that Rick leaves for Randall to use. I don't know if it can be seen any better in any other episode but I know that Randall does eventually use it and I think I remember a few semi-close up shots of it.

:Yes, there are a few close-up shots of the knife Randall uses in Episode 10 of Season 2. It appears to be a sheath knife without any serrations on the blade, finger grooves on the grip, and a clip point. I checked the official Gerber website, but I was unable to see any knife pictured there which resembled this one. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 19:20, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

On the actual subject of the firearms used in the finale, I think Lori uses the Charter Arms Pug that Carl had earlier in the season. Daryl used a revolver I couldn't ID.... Looked like a .38 of some kind with a 4 or 5 inch barrel, but I'm not sure. [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 22:02, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

To add to that, Glenn was seen using Shane's Mossberg with the M4-style stock in the finale. (Shane no longer needed it.)
Hershel was also seen using, what I believe is the Remington 870 Wingmaster used by Dayrl in "Vatos"

The revolver Daryl used, if it was Dale's revolver i think it is a colt of some kind, although I cannot get a good look, in one of the earlier episodes you can see the grip under Dale's shirt, and it looks like there is a Colt medallion near the top, not sure though.--[[User:Awaler32|Awaler32]] 09:42, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

== Logo on Carl's shirt ==
This is way off topic for IMFDB, but the logo on Carl's shirt in the episode "Better Angels", a black bear paw in front of a red atom, I know I've seen it elsewhere but I can't place it. At first I thought it was the old Blackwater logo, but the BW logo is a black bear paw in a red scope crosshair. Does anyone recognize it? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:13, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

:The logo on Carl's shirt is for "Science Dog" - another comic book by the creator of TWD, Robert Kirkman. The comic book version of Carl has this same exact logo on his shirt too. Adding this level of detail to Carl's wardrobe in the TV series was a nice touch, I would say. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 07:01, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

== The guns of the survivors ==
Way back in episode one of the series we see Rick load up all of the available weapons from the precinct's armory for his journey to Atlanta. And while we've had about 18 episodes to ask the question we really haven't yet. If they weapons came from the police armory why do a good portion of the long guns appear to be hunting firearms? The Browning BAR, the Remington 700, the Remington 870 and such look out of place in the right context.

- Well, I think that the older wooden-furniture Remington 870 and the Remington 700 can be explained, as it is a small, rural County Sheriff's Office in Georgia. Before the widespread distribution of tactical sniper rifles, M16's and M4's across America's police departments, police were using other weapons, such as the Remington 700 and the Winchester Model 70 for that purpose. Also, we see Rick gathering up the weapons AFTER the outbreak. The Sheriff's officers could have grabbed the new firearms and left the older ones, which would still be in the armory for storage and reserve purposes. If the story was broadened, it would probably show the other Sheriff's deputy's taking tactical rifles and carbines to employ them in the field. [[User:Scattergun|Scattergun]]

:One thing that always struck me as "unrealistic" about TWD has been the types and and amounts of guns depicted in seasons 1 and 2, along with the feelings of some of the characters toward guns. The setting for this show all along has been in Georgia, which in real life is a "red" pro-gun southern state with a longtime history of private gun ownership among a large percentage of the population. So far on TWD however, the way in which guns have been depicted seems somewhat more as if the show's setting has been in a "blue" anti-gun northeastern state like New Jersey!

:In real-life Georgia, I have no doubt that there are many civilians who own at least one semi-automatic rifle chambered for a military cartridge and a few high-capacity magazines for it, and that number probably increased by even more after Obama got elected in 2008. Bearing this in mind, I can't see why there would not have been at least a few people in that survivor's camp outside Atlanta during season 1 armed with something more than just hunting firearms and handguns. The two "redneck" characters in season 1 - Merle and Daryl - they would have both had tactical-type rifles and hidden caches of ammunition for them if it had been up to me. Rednecks in real life have been stockpiling ammunition ever since Obama got elected. Plus, seasons 1 and 2 have had two former cops in the group - Rick and Shane - but neither one of them have ever seen the need to acquire better firepower. There were M4's and other weapons scattered all around the outside of the CDC in season 1, but nobody thought to pick any of them up. If I had been Rick, I would have been constantly telling everybody else in the group all throughout seasons 1 and 2 to keep gathering up guns and ammunition whenever possible. That one black bag Rick loaded up at the police station's armory in the first episode of season 1 could not possibly have held enough ammunition to last all the way to the end of season 2.

:Then there were the anti-gun sentiments among some members in the group - Lori in season 1 and 2, and Hershel in season 2. Lori's objections to her son Carl learning how to shoot struck me as being a bit odd. Lori is supposed to be a housewife from a small town in the South who is married to a cop, not a soccer mom with a career from a liberal anti-gun upbringing. Being that Carl is the son of a southern small town cop, I think it would have been more realistic if he had already learned a few things about shooting from his dad Rick long before the outbreak. Hershel's attitude towards guns struck me as being most odd. Hershel is supposed to be a cattle rancher from rural Georgia, so when he said that he did want his property to become an "armed camp" from the group carrying guns around, I was shaking my head by then. Cattle ranchers in real life often have to keep a gun handy to kill coyotes and other pests. I doubt that coyotes would stay away from a farm or ranch with livestock on it after a zombie apocalypse starts. I would have to say that Hershel seemed to redeem himself later in season 2 when he said that he knew how to shoot, although he did not like to. In the season 2 finale however, Hershel seemed to be very much into showing off his shooting skills. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 10:43, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::I just want to say a couple of things about this rant. First, you are being very stereotypical about the South, thinking that everyone is a gun-toting redneck. I can speak from experience because I am from the most anti-gun state in the country, Massachusetts, I think I can guarantee that there are at least a few people living in the South who don't like firearms. Like I said, I am from Massachusetts, but I like guns, unlike most of the state and most of the Northeast for that matter, except New Hampshire of course. Also, the show takes place a few weeks after the zombie outbreak, most of the people with the military caliber firearms have probably long since left and moved to places they would think was safer. About Rick teaching Carl to shoot guns, he is a cop, so maybe he has seen people get badly hurt by guns, so he didn't want anything to happen to Carl. Hershel knows how to shoot pretty well. I am guessing by his hate for guns, he probably faced some kind of horrible incident in the past that resulted from him using a gun. Again, this is just speculation. In the season 2 finale, Hershel showed his shooting skills because by this time, his outlook on the undead had completely changed. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:01, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::We love our guns up here in New Hampshire! Rick teaching Carl about guns is a good thing and something that is needed. He'll be needing to use that gun more considering how the world has become with the Zombies. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:57, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

::::Oh no, I completely agree with teaching Carl to use guns after the zombie outbreak, but I mean before the outbreak maybe Rick didn't have any motivation to teach his son to use guns, that's all. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:36, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::SmithandWesson36, have you been to the South much? I have. I have been to most of the southern states myself, and not just to the large cities and tourist spots, either. I also live in a somewhat rural part of Pennsylvania - it's had some population growth over the last 15 years. Anyway, the point I was trying to make above is that these days, in the "red states" of the South and other rural areas, there are more tactical type rifles in the hands of "plain folks" civilians than ever before. It's more than some people may even realize or want to admit, and the buyers are not necessarily ones who fit the "redneck" mold. Case in point: Not long after Obama was elected in 2008, the biggest gun shop in my area was packed every time I went in to browse. The gun shop's employees were often telling me back then that they could not keep up with the demand for semi-auto rifles chambered in .223 Remington. I made some small talk there once with a single mom, who seemed articulate enough, not a redneck type, etc. She was with her teenage son - they were there to buy her first gun. She bought a Yugo SKS rifle. (I think she wanted to buy an AR type rifle at first, but the SKS was much cheaper.) Also in 2008, I went to several parts of North Carolina at different times that year. I noticed that even the small pawn shops in the suburban "Research Triangle" area of NC had at least one or two AK type rifles. Plus, every time I have been to either of the two shooting ranges that I regularly go to, there has always been at least one person there shooting his or her own AR type rifle. Based upon my own personal experiences such as these, this is part of the reason why wrote what I did above. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 01:11, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Originally this started out as a discussion about why a police precinct would have hunting firearms in the armory. I don't really know how we got into the portrayal of red state/blue state issues in the show and about who personally owns what and why as opposed to something else.

As to the anti-gun bias on the show, I believe that it's to some degree understandable when considering everything. Rick and Shane are police officers, their training dictates that firearms not in the hands of fellow officers are a threat to their safety. Even if the dead have started walking that training is still with them and they're going to be relying on what they know. Hershel's stance is understandable because he sees the Walkers as sick people in need of help, not open slaughter like what was possibly being shown on the news reports. He understands that the survivors don't see things his way and would rather shoot a Walker rather than help it and he wants to prevent that...at least until after Shane opens his eyes to the truth. Lori is a mother and worries about the safety of her son, possibly because so many kids get shot and killed each year and was afraid of contributing to that. It's also possible she's opposed to the idea of Carl learning to shoot because it doesn't jive with her hopes of the world returning to what is used to be when there was order and safety. It's possible she views the idea of her child growing up cold and hard is just another nail in the coffin of the world having any sort of order to it again and she doesn't want to be swinging that hammer. --[[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

:Thank you, Ballistics_Expert, that's exactly what I was trying to say. I wasn't arguing anything about red state/blue state, I'm simply stating that not everyone single person in the South loves guns and some are opposed to them. I didn't mean anything political by that, I just meant that anywhere you go, there will be people who disagree with the common concensus of the area. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:37, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

...and back to the subject...reason would lead one to believe the other cops already took the duty guns at the begining and all that was left was confiscated guns left in the evidence locker or something.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 14:44, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:Plausible, considering Shane's M4-stocked Mossy sort of stands out from the rest of the group's guns. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:29, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

::I don't know about anyone else here, but my experience with firearms and viewing preferences with firearms-related TV shows is much more based in real life than in make-believe. I shoot my semi-auto tactical rifles and 1911 pistols on a regular basis and I know many other people who do likewise. I have been to gun shops, gun shows, and gun ranges all over this country. TWD is the only fictional TV show that I am into these days - all the other ones I watch are the "reality" shows on History Channel, Discovery, NatGeo, etc. ("Sons of Guns"/"Doomsday Preppers"/"American Guns"/"Top Shot" - just to name a few.) If you watch shows like these, have been to the South as often as I have been, have been around many gunners like I have, and have seen what I have seen, you probably also would have been a bit disappointed to see how nobody in season 1 of the TWD already had at least one modern semi-auto tactical carbine, or even an older military surplus rifle such the M1 Garand or the SKS. I have already tried to point out how it is actually quite common in real life for civilians in "red" states like Georgia to own semi-auto rifles such as these, and it's not just the hardcore "redneck" types who own them now - it's more like people from all walks of life instead. As a matter of fact, due to an overwhelming demand from the civilian market, Sturm Ruger, America's largest gun maker, actually had to halt production temporarily just this week. Bearing all of this in mind, this is why I say that it should not have even mattered if Rick and Shane's hometown police station's armory had already been looted of all the tactical carbines. As for some people in the South being anti-gun/non-gun-owners, sure, they exist, but they are nowhere as nearly numerous as the anti-gunners/non-gun-owners are in a "blue" state up North like New Jersey, and these are exactly the types of people who are mostly likely going to die first and die the most in a widespread zombie outbreak, simply because they will be totally unarmed before an outbreak begins. The percentage of lawful gun owners in most of the "red" states is 50% or greater. In most of the "blue" states, the percentage of lawful gun owners is as low as 10%.

::Now, one thing that did strike me as "realistic" about the depiction of "blue" states in TWD were the characters of Dave and Tony in the "Nebraska" episode. Both of them seemed to me as being very much "blue" state guys - it was as if they were two lost cast members of the "Jersey Shore" show or something. (Could you imagine having to rely on people like them during a zombie outbreak? Would you want "Snooki" or "the situation" in your survivor group?) What I mean by this is that Dave and Tony both acted like cocky jerks with chips on their shoulders. Dave actually did mention something about meeting Tony along Route 95 outside of Philadelphia, which is also rather close to the Jersey Shore for those of you who did not know this. Much like a great many of the "blue" state folks, neither Dave nor Tony were likely gun owners, or had had any firearms training prior to the zombie outbreak. Dave actually mentioned that he got his SIG pistol off a dead cop. For all we know, Dave was the one who killed that cop, in cold blood, no less. Tony had a sawn-off Mossberg HS12 - he was probably the one who cut the stock on it down, too. If that is what happened, then it just goes to show how clueless Tony was about guns in general. Just about everything Dave and Tony said and did in the "Nebraska" episode was ignorant, rude, and rubbed me the wrong way. How Rick handled Dave and Tony was one of the best decisions he made during all of season 2 as far as I am concerned. --[[User:Kepiblanc|Kepiblanc]] 20:41, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Okay, I'm sorry, but I am still confused about why you keep bringing up "blue states" and "red states," all I am trying to say is that maybe all the modern, military caliber weapon wielding people left with their weapons to find better shelters out of a small town with no protection. I don't get what you mean by having people from the Jersey Shore as survivors in your group, I have a friend with relatives from the Jersey Shore who are not orange-skinned Italians. You also say that Dave and Tony are ignorant and rude because they come from a "blue" state? I'm sorry, but you are rudely stereotyping people, which has nothing to do with what this discussion is about. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:26, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Anyway, getting back to the original topic,there is an Android Walking Dead game made by AMC and explains the first events of the outbreak right after Rick got shot, all the way up to Shane heading to the hospital to save Rick. According to the game, there were only three officers at the station when the first zombies attacked, Shane, Leon, and someone named Don. Judging by the fact that there are times when only three officers are at the station, there are probably not too many officers in this small town. I think that the police force of this town might just have been too small for it to have the budget to buy tactical rifles and they didn't really have the need for more firepower than hunting firearms. How much crime can a tiny town have, right? This is obviously just speculation, but it is my opinion. Although the real reason for their weapons could just be that a zombie show would be boring if the survivors were untouchable because they had military-grade firepower and tons and tons of ammo. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:06, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Police Armory ==

Hello everybody. Pretty spirited discussion going on above. Okay first of all (don't know how applicable this is, but here goes) I'm a police officer. October 12, 2012 will make twelve years for me. I'm also in Idaho which is in the Northwest, but very much a Red State. My department has 63 sworn officers (full-time) and eight reserve officers. I think. Our city is closing in on 50,000 residents.

Our swat team is called TRT (Tactical Response Team). We have two snipers. Both are equipped with Remington 700 rifles in .308. The rifles have 18" heavy barrels, synthetic sticks, scopes, bipods ect. All the gee-whiz tactical stuff. The other TRT members are equipped with Colt AR-15 carbines (16" barrel) and all the various accoutrements that have come to be assocaited with the AR-15 platform in the past decade. TRT officers are issued their rifles by the department.

Other offcers who wish to carry an AR-15 have to purchase the rifle out of their own pocket and attend a week long class. They have to qualify with the rifle at the end of the week if they hope to carry the rifle. The department supplies forty rounds for the rifle.

If you don't want to purchase a rifle you can carry a Remington 870 Police shotgun (supplied by the department) in 12 gauge, but it isn't mandatory.

We are issued either a [[Glock 21]] (45acp) or a [[Glock 19]] (9mm) if the 21 is too large and so on. I carry the [[Glock 19]] and I am also authorized to carry the [[Glock 26]] and the [[Smith & Wesson Model 36 / 38#Smith & Wesson Model 38/49|Smith & Wesson Model 49 Bodyguard]] as my backups and off duty pieces.

Only a couple years before I joined my department the TRT officers were carrying the [[Ruger Mini-14]] with the wooden stock and the [[Remington 870]] shotgun - also with the wooden stock. There was just one sniper and he carried the [[Savage 10/110 Series Rifles|Savage 110]] in .243 also outfitted with a wooden stock.

Officers were allowed to carry whatever type of semi-auto handgun they wanted as long as it was in 9mm, 40S&W or 45 acp. We didn't go to issuing Glocks until 2006.

So as you see it only been over the past fifteen years (more or less) that my department has gotten "modern". I can guarantee that there are many smaller departments out there (in the U.S.) that are still playing catch-up. So the police gun vault that we see in the first episode isn't that difficult to believe in. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:41, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

==Herschel's Shotgun==
is it just me or did herschel's shotgun have like unlimited ammo, cause he was just laying those shells into the zombies like a boss

:Yeah, I was thinking that too, when I watched the episode. I think he reloaded maybe once, and was able to get off upwards of 20 shells out of that. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 22:08, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

::Yep. Evidently I wasn't around when the local Cabelas was selling the special Remington 870 "Hollywood" configuration. Darn it. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:16, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Herschel's SIG ==

Is it just me or does it look a tad too short to be a P226? [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 00:11, 29 March 2012 (CDT)
:It also has a rounded trigger guard which makes it a P228/ --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:46, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

==Mossberg HS12==
Uh, are there ANY other screencaps of this gun? The one we have does NOT prove that it is a Mossberg HS12 on its' own. I'm sure that there are other screenshots available (I don't work on this page so I count on others to do it). But right now it is a vague and nondistinct image and thus a new gun page for the Mossberg HS12 was created just for this one entry. We need to verify that this gun ID is correct. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:55, 28 May 2012 (CDT)

== Season 3 Mystery suppressed Gun ==

Just found this image online. It's apparently a season 3 sneak peek snapshot. What is Rick holding? Almost looks like a two tone glock with a stielhandgranate taped to it, stick pointing towards us.... but its obviously not=P
http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/4/46/Rick.JPG
:Definitely looks like a glock. The can looks like a big Mag-lite to me. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] 21:33, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

::I'm making an assumption, but it's safe to say it's the same Glock 17 he used in the season 2 finale. Seems like he will be using this pistol along with his Colt Python a lot next season. The suppressor was a pleasant surprise. Given the situation in the show, it's probably just a crude, homemade suppressor made with whatever materials he could scrounge.

I think it might be one of the Russian PBS suppressors, I have to agree with ^ it is good to see a suppressor for once when facing zombies.[[User:Recon42|Recon42]]

The suppressor looks like the one that you see on a mac-10 in desperado image and the silencer in that image looks similar.[[User:Balin21|Balin21]]

For sure it's a Glock, however I was thinking it was a crude homemade suppressor, [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 19:28, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

Remember Rick has T Dog's glock(shane hid his then took t dog's and rick took it when he killed shane) and the suppressor does look like a mac 10 suppressor bt it is likely homemade. --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 08:50, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

I think it is a home-made suppressor made from a [http://www.maglite.com/D_Cell_LED.asp Maglite 2 D-cell torch] (or maybe the 3 cell is hard to tell from that shot). The tube with a hole drilled in the base cap alternating between fabric packing and empty chambers would probably kind of work as a suppressor, hard bit would be somehow attaching the lamp end to the muzzle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:59, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

On the talking dead, the producers state it is a flashlight as a makeshift suppressor --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 11:11, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== First look at David Morrissey ==

First picture of David Morrissey as the Governor is up, he'll be the chief antagonist for some time to come on the show. One of his men in the background is holding something in his hand over his shoulder...can anyone make it out?

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=91132

Too blurry, but my first thought was some form of speargun:
http://i.pgcdn.com/pi/1/87/67/18767193_260.jpg
Then again, I just got back from Cancun so I got fishing on the mind =P
--[[User:Geckcgt|Geckcgt]] 01:02, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

The Governor appears to carry a silver/nickel semi-automatic, possibly a 1911 variant, with black grips in a cross draw holster. Looking forward to more detailed screencaps. --[[User:Mmarlon brando|Mmarlon brando]] 12:12, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== Season 3 ==

Season 3 trailer is up, lots of footage to comb through! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbcXvotzU2k

Im willing to screencap it but its to low quality for me. Maybe someone else can [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 09:09, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

Merle is back. Hopefully this season will have a bit more zip than Season 2. With the exception of the last couple episodes S2 was a little on the slow side. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 09:14, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

In the trailer I can see a helicopter from the UH-1 series along with an MG that I could not ID due to the low quality also the prison had some firearms available inside, Rick used a used a silenced handgun that may be a Glock. Also what kind of firearms would be availible to prison guards anyways? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I uploaded some caps and put them on the page. [[User:theman838|theman838]]

The handgun used by Rick is some kind of Glock, yeah (there was a large poster of Rick holding it in the background on The Talking Dead last week), but they said the "silencer", prop-wise, is actually a flashlight. lol [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:17, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

Merle's bayonet is a WWII M1 Bayonet my grandfather gave me his when he past.

Should we put the armorer showing an m4a1 and at4 on talking dead on the page for behind the scenes ?

== Unknown weapons ==

Please, I know that this is a discussion about T.W.D tv series but can someone add the gas grenade of Hell Of The Living Dead film? I request this because this is a zombie film/tv discussion!

:No, this is a discussion about TWD, not a general zombie genre discussion. If you have anything to say about ''[[Hell of the Living Dead]]'', you might try putting it on the talk page for that film. Also, there's no need to double post. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:37, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

== Page to crowded for another season ==

I think we should create a new page for season 3 when in comes out for new shots of the guns do to the fact this page already has 2 seasons on it and a third would make it too crowded.--[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] 16:24, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:Too long you say? [[The Unit]] and [[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3]] didn't seem too bad. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 15:55, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

Talk:The Hurt Locker

2012-07-14T23:02:41Z

Scarecrow: /* Barrett Shells */

==barrett==
Can the barrett use ammo from the M2 or are the bullets different sorta like 50. cal in pistols and 50. cal in rifles
:It can, but different ammunition better suited to long range use is preferred over standard ball. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:27, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

==The "Airsoft" M16A4==
Someone said there they believe some of the M16A4s are airsoft because of "unnecessary screws in the A2 stocks" Can someone point out to me what they mean? Because my assumption would be that those are simply QD sling swivel holes being mistaken for screws. This is the only thing I know of thats common on airsoft AR15 full stocks that is rare on real ones.

==The helmet covers==
I know the military seems awesome and all, but they screw up sometimes too. They don't always issue the right shit, like the Marines in Generation Kill were issued the wrong camo for desert operations. Especially helmet covers. They are really bad on those. So it doesn't designate that hes EOD, it just shows that the Army screws up -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:Except that the Marines in the 2003 were issued woodland camo because the USMC already were replacing the desert camo and the woodland camo with MARPAT. Hence that Iceman was wearing MARPAT and so were the officers. The Army replaced the Desert Camo and the Woodland camo in 2005 so it's unlikely that in 2007 (the year the movie takes place) there would be still camouflage needed replacing. It's most likely that the Prop Department didn't have enough UCP helmet covers. The Prop Department also screwed up by giving a lot of soldiers PASGT helmets. By 2007 the MICH TC-2000 Combat Helmet had completely replaced the PASGT helmet.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, the USMC was issued MARPAT in 2003, but per the Army, the Woodland and DCU were officially no longer regulation at the end of October 2006. Even from that time, it took months for soldiers to get gear completely replaced. A rule of thumb ever since the American Civil War and one that applies today is that it takes about a YEAR from an official change to filter down to all soldiers in a theatre of operations.[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:28, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

*The woodland cover is probably just a stylistic choice on the part of the director to make Sergeant James more distinctive from the other members of the team and to enhance his "outsider" status. As for the PASGT helmets, The Hurt Locker is an indie film that was produced on a limited budget by most action movie standards, so it is far cheaper just to outfit everyone in the background with the existing PASGT helmets rather than to purchase genuine or replica MICH helmets. [[User:Markit|Markit]]
:I agree. Makes more sense.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:31, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

:I'm sorry, I can't remember where the movie specifies when it takes place.-protoAuthor

::* Definitely right about the military screwing up, or sometimes new kit taking longer to get in service. I worked with US troops in 2007 that were still using mixed camouflage and ALICE gear. Out of a whole battalion I think like 5 guys had all the new stuff. Hell, sometimes it depends on what base you get issued your kit at. I got my tans in Winnipeg and got the old desert boots, everyone who kitted in Edmonton got the new ones. - Nyles
:Sometimes they don't even issue people the correct sidearms due to limited supplies. For example, My cousin was issued a very old M1911 when he joined the Navy (He now has a privately owned Desert Warrior)and many of the people that he was with ddn't get the M9 either-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:43, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Could be worse, we've used the Inglis Hi Power so long we don't have anything else in stores but 1050 Sig P225s we bought for MPs in the 90s. I wasn't even supposed to get one until they dug up a few more spares - I was literally last on the list to get one, the two guys in my section with names later in the alphabet didn't! Couldn't even get a shoulder holster because all the senior officers got them all.
:Alright, I found out that this movie is set in 2004. Won't UCP be a inaccuracy?--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:27, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

::This movie isn't set in 2004; it's set in 2007, the same year it was filmed. I'm not sure why people think it's set in 2004. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
:::Well, rotten tomatoes seems to agree with me. [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/hurt_locker/ RottenTomatoes page] .
"In the summer of 2004". Mark Boal was also in Iraq in 2004.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:09, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

::::Rotten Tomatoes could be wrong, too. They aren't exactly the official source. It's possible that whoever wrote the entry just assumed that because Mark Boal was in Iraq in 2004, the movie was set at the same time. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:09, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
::NPR agrees with me too. [http://http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105964997].--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:39, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

:Saw it again today. Yeah, it's set in 2004.-protoAuthor 05:29, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
::The reviews indicate 2004, but iirc there is no explicit reference to that year in the movie, unless there was a scene that I forgot.--[[User:Markit|Markit]] 07:35, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

How about the beginning caption when the movie opens that says "Baghdad 2004".
::That title only appeared in some of the releases of the film - for instance it is on the DVD, but not on the version screened internationally at film festivals.--[[User:Markit|Markit]] 22:34, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Little off question. Why most hi-speeds ignore helmet covers? Pimpin'?
:If it is set in 2004, then the ACU uniforms are anachronistic at the time as the ACU uniform was not issued until February 2005. A more accurate choice would be the DCU uniform. Also, the ACU uniforms in the movie appear to have an inaccurate appearance, such as the nametapes and the "U.S. Army" title in the wrong spots. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:43, 23 October 2011 (CDT)
::I dislike dredging up this two year old debate, but it isn't particularly clear whether the director/producers intentionally set the film in 2004 when it was being made- the title "2004" was added in afterwards when the movie got a wider release. At the same time, some of the inaccuracies also can be attributable to the film's relatively low budget (around $10 million iirc)- that probably meant less retakes to cover up mistakes such as the guns changing or incorrect nametapes and so on. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 22:34, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

== Watermarked pic ==

Putting this picture here until I can find one that doesn't have the watermark on it.

[[Image:THL M4A1 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|James and Sanborn open fire with their M4A1's at a pair of insurgents attempting to hold Eldridge prisoner. They manage to kill the pair, but Eldridge is hit in the femur thereafter.]] --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 23:35, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Rank Issue.

I believe Renner's character wore Sergeant First Class (E-7 - Three stripes up with two rockers below) chevrons. This is a rank that is one grade higher than Staff Sergeant. Also, SSGT is not an abriviation used by the US Army as SSG is used instead.
:SSGT is Marine Corps abbreviation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:28, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

SSGT may be a USMC designation but this movie is about US Army Soldiers, not Marines.
:Yes, we already know that. I was pointing out that SSGT is the Marine Corps abbreviation for the rank, not that the soldiers in the movie were Marines. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' symbols at the end of it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

== Glock? ==

Is that a Glock 23 or 19? im so bad with glocks :(

:It's always hard to tell Glock models based on bore diameter, but IMFDB's rule of thumb is to assume that a pistol is a 9mm model unless we have inside information that the gun is another caliber, or unless there is a close-up of the slide where we can see caliber/model number markings. We do know that historically, movie armorers have tended to use 9mm pistols because this caliber is the easiest and most reliable to convert to blank-fire. So it's a safe bet that this Glock is probably a G19. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:37, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Think about it: If a contractor in the middle east is carrying a Glock, would it be a 19 or a 23? How easy do you think it is to find some 40sw there?

:Right, but that would be '''real life''', whereas this is a '''movie'''. Since this is a site about guns in '''movies''', what's relevant to us is what caliber pistols are most likely to be in the inventory of Hollywood's '''prop houses'''. The movie armorers who are readers/members of this very site have told us that prop houses tend to stock mostly 9mm pistols. Sometimes, I feel that trying to explain this stuff to people is like spitting into the wind. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:10, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

::I just removed some commentary by another person who actually tried to make the argument using a reference to the real-life availability of Glock 19s in Iraq. It's not that I disagree the pistol is probably a Glock 19 - but I find it unfathomable that anyone could fail to understand that there's a difference between real and life and what armorers bring to a movie set. Am I just too OCD, or is it downright retarded to use real life to argue what guns are used in a movie? How is it that people can't grasp the difference? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:56, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

:::It is not unfathomable to think that the film makers might have actually done research and asked themselves what kind of weapons a British contractor might use in Iraq. I feel this is especially so because he is also using an AK. If they didn't do any research why not just give him an AR or SA80? I personally know British contractors who carry Ak's and Hi Powers or Glock 19's because they are reliable,easy to get ammo for, and readily available. Since movies are meant to mirror real life in some ways, maybe you are retarded to not realize that it might be relevant to the film maker what would be available and likely for a character to carry. -[[User:Captain America]]

::::Yes, of course the directors are going to ask for weapons that match the characters as accurately as possible, and they will ask the armorers (the people who supply and handle the weapons on the show) for advise on the correct weapons. One would, for instance, expect U.S. Army personnel in Vietnam to have XM16E1s or M16A1s, not the modern-day M4 used by today's troops. That being said, when it comes to something as minor as the particular caliber of a weapon (which looks identical to the same weapon in a different caliber), there isn't some iron law that the exact variant of a weapon in a movie (i.e. Glock 19 vs. Glock 23) absolutely '''has''' to accurately mirror what it would be in real life.

::::If you ever look at some of the pages on this site for WWII movies, you will notice that the Colt MK IV Series 70 in 9x19mm has often been used to stand-in for the [[M1911A1]] (which was the correct service pistol for the U.S. at the time). The reason for this is that for years, movie armorers had difficulty converting .45 ACP pistols to reliable blank-fire, so they used 9mm 1911 stand-ins (some of which are historical anachronisms) because they knew audience was not likely to recognize the difference. The same applies to Glocks - most armorers use (and still use) 9mm Glocks because that's what they had in stock. So they often use 9mm Glocks regardless of what the model should be in real life, because they know that even gun experts will not be able to tell the difference. That is the point I am making here. If your sole reference for a specific weapon in a movie is what it ''should'' be in real life, then you are thinking the wrong way. As our own MPM2008 (who is a movie armorer) has told us many times, the reality of movie gun use differs from the reality of real life ''very'' often. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

::::I understand the difference between movie guns and real guns completely. I just don't understand why someone would make an assumption that the Glock in this movie was a 23 when, as you said, people who are familiar with movie guns would know that they tend to be 9mm. Add to that the context of the movie, and again, why would someone even guess it was a 23? I wasn't disagreeing with you, just stating that sometimes the "movie" gun used does not necessarily represent what the character is "supposed" to be carrying in the movie. Much like the Browning Hi Power used in Raiders of the Lost Ark. In the original script and artwork, Indy is "supposed" to be carrying a Colt 1911. But as we all know it back in the day it was hard to get .45's to function with blanks, so a BHP was used, thus still creating debate between what "was used" and what was "supposed to be" used. That was my only point about what a "real life" PSC would have used.-[[User:Captain America]]

I was the guy who originally stated it may be a G23. For the record, all I did was comment on the bore size, and said it looked kinda big for a 9mm. Someone took that to change the page.-AC

After doing some research, it seems that Glcok 19s are the prefered handgun of most contractors in Iraq. From Blackwater, to Armour Group.-AC

:Your research is irrelevant. Again, '''we don't care about real life.''' What matters is what the '''movie's armorers''' had in inventory. Thinking about real life is the wrong way to make your case, as I've said repeatedly on this page. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Agree, but for plot purposes, its probally supposed to be a 19.-AC

Why does there continue to be a disclaimer about the Glock? The OP admitted he guessed at the fact it was a 23 to begin with. Everyone agrees it is a 19. So then there is a disclaimer saying that it could be a 23 but it's not? The gun should simple be identified as what it is agreed to be. If there is a footnote, it should be on this discussion page.

== Movie Connections ==

Does this sucessful movie have any connections with the Matt Damon movie "Green Zone"?

Doubt it. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 10:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

:Aside from taking place in Baghdad, it's doubtful. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:31, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::I just saw ''Green Zone'' recently, and I can say that there is zero connection, besides the fact that both movies had the same cinematographer (according to one review I read). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:32, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

:The Green Zone had a lot more Matt Damon shaking the camera during the action scenes [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
Actually, the "shaky camera" technique in The Green Zone is a common trademark in Paul Greengrass' films as he somewhat presumes that shaking the camera often makes the action scenes more intense and cool. Despite this, I consider it as annoying as you can't actually see the details of the scene (ex. say in ''The Bourne Ultimatum'' where I couldn't tell who is punching who), the scenes being zoomed in too far and not stable, causing motion sickness, and the camera shooting the scenes at a terrible angle. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 23:08, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

== Blood covered rounds?? ==

Would the blood on the Barrett rounds really be enough to jam them in the chamber? I could maybe see it if the blood were dried on & formed any sort of crusty residue (ICK!!)... [[User:Tommyt|Tommyt]] 03:03, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
:Maybe if there was a lot of blood and it congealed within the magazine. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 06:22, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::Doesn't seem like there was that much time for the blood to coag, but it does sound plausible actually. There wasn't much of a time element to the scene I guess... thanks for the theory tho! [[User:Tommyt|Tommyt]] 03:00, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Just looking at the condition of that Barret with all the dust and sand, I would think that just that would be enough to jam the weapon.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 22:53, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I assumed the sand that was kicking about would stick to the blood on the round, and tats what would cause a jam. Tho i also thought it would have been easier to empty the mag, and load the rounds into the breech directly, one shot at a time - Captain Snikt
::Anyway you have sand in any gun chamber will definitely damage the weapon in one way or another. Right? - [[User:S9771773G|S9771773G]]

I don't think it will damage the weapon but it can clog up the internals causing a possible failure. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:53, 2 November 2011 (CDT)

== Taking it a bit further... ==

If I may dork out a little more, it looked like he was using a SOG Power Plier multitool in the beginning, but later switched to a Leatherman Wave. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 06:27, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

== Barrett Shells ==
When Sanborn is using the barrett, as he reloads you can see the magazine is loaded with (live?) rounds in one shot, and then in another shot, as he is inserting the magazine, the shells have no bullets in them. And right after this, they show another shot of the mag and it is loaded with live rounds again. WTF? --[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 14:29, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

:You sure they are live rounds? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

What I mean is that they have the appearance of live rounds. They have the slug in the shell casing. But when Sanborn reloads, they show two different shots. In one, he holds a loaded magazine, but in the other he has what looks like just empty shell casings. Watch the part again if you can and tell me what you think. --[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 12:47, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
:They'd be dummy rounds (no propellent or primer) though from what you're explaining it sounds like they failed at editing, ussaly dummy rounds would be shown being loaded, then blanks would be switched out off camera then filming would continue giving the effect that a round had been loaded but in reality a blank is being fired (look into the death of Brandon lee to see how they can still go wrong...)

== Airsoft? ==

Ok, who put the Airsoft M4 there and what proof is there that there are Airsoft M4s? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:10, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

In some scenes, Sandborn and Eldridge have Classic Army M15A4 airsoft rifle replicas.
Like this one - http://shop.georgiaairsoft.com/ProductImages/CA%20M15A4%20CARBINE%20RIS%20AEG%20NEW%20MODEL%20WEBSIZE%20IMAGE.jpg - If you look closely at recievers of their guns, you would see the white "Armalite" logo partially covered with black paint and Save - Semi - Auto highlighted with white paint on the fire selector. As far as I know, no real AR-15 manufacurer (apart from the HK and their HK-416) does not highlight markings on AR-15 recievers with white paint.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1981/hurtlockerm15a4.jpg

[Ragnar - unregistered viewer]

::::I just watched this movie on Blu Ray again, and I can confirm that yes, the non-firing M4s in the movie are Classic Army airsoft replicas (some of them don't even have completely blacked-out markings). We've already pointed out that the buttstocks of the M4s in the movie keep changing from 6-position to 4-position types. From what I can tell, any time you see an M4 with a 4-position stock, it's a Classic Army replica. The real M4s used in the movie all have 6-position stocks. They probably used the Classic Army weapons so that the actors could handle them when the armorer wasn't on-set. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:20, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

::What exactly ''are'' Airsoft replicas, and how are they so different from the actual rifles (so they can be used on set w/o an armorer present, as mentioned in the article)?[[User:Sentient6|Sentient6]] 01:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I don't understand...are you asking what airsoft guns are? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:33, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

::::I think he's asking what airsoft is. Airsoft replicas are replicas of real world firarms that shoot plastic BBs and can be powered by CO2, springs, even electric motors. High quality airsoft replicas are often used when it is more economical to do so, since they are less expensive than actual firearms. The trained eye can spot a lot of instances of this in this movie - burgershot621

:::::They don't use airsoft guns because they're less expensive. The real guns you see in movies aren't ''bought''; they are ''rented'' (usually, on a weekly basis). Airsoft guns are used in locations where the gun laws are so restrictive that real can't be handled on-set without a licensed armorer present (i.e. Jordan, where this movie was filmed). Since airsoft guns are not real, they can be handled by the actors when the armorer isn't on-set, which saves money. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:03, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

::::::I stand corrected, they are less expensive to use on set. - Burgershot621

:::::::Yeah, I was asking what Airsoft replicas are.. Thanks for the answer =) - [[User:Sentient6|Sentient6]] 16:14, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't matter about gun laws. If a blank firing firearm is on set it is required that an armourer is on set regardless of the country it is filmed in. Airsoft guns are used for non-firing scenes because it is cheaper than having an armourer on set which is required even if they are not loaded. It's all down to health and safety, an armourer is needed because they need someone on the set who has a lot of experience and to be responsible for the handling of the weapons. If airsoft guns are used without a battery in them the AEGs (most of the rifles) pose no threat. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:58, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

== M 136. ==

One of the soldiers near the end, that has cordoned off the forced suicide bomber has an M-136 on his back. It can be seen fairly clearly, when he pulls the interpretor behind cover.

:Correct. Also, the guy who apprehends James at the checkpoint (after his vigilante mission) has what seems to be a Remington 870 folder. I'll get them all added when I do the Blu-Ray update to this page (can't give an ETA yet, but hopefully this weekend). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:13, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Didn't notice the remington.

On a sidenote, what pistol does James have when he goes on his little vigilante crusade? Most of the camera angles for that part, make it hard to identify the trigger guard.
:It's a Beretta 92 series. I'm pretty sure it was a 92FS, from the hooked trigger, but I'll have to check. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 10:55, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

== Six wheeled armore vehicles. ==

What models are those six whelled APCs seen throughout the movie? I dont know if this site is a good place to ask this, but i cant find it anywhere.

Also, I assume there stand-ins for Strikers.-AC
:::The vehicles are South African Ratel IFVs, likely borrowed from the Royal Jordanian Land Force (where the movie was filmed). IMCDB has a thorough list of the vehicles if you are interested. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

== Eldridge's Eye Protection ==
Although it may be irrelevant, does anyone happen to know what brand or type of eye protection (or shooting glasses) that Eldridge uses throughout the movie? My guess is the Oakley M-Frame Sweeps with the clear lenses, but I'm not sure. Thanks. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 08:33, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

I reckon that is ESS product, check their page cuz I dont know what the product name is

==Blu-Ray update finished==

Sorry it took me so long. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:05, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

== James' Knife ==

Can anyone tell me what knife James had in his hand after disarming the "Send Us All To Jesus" VB-IED? The one he throws in the back before Sanborn thumps him.

Can anyone help me out?

Thanks.

Benchmade 155. Next time try google I found the answer in .032 seconds. Your Welcome. Gunner313

==Barrett Description Tweak==
One of the admins might want to tweak the description for the M107. The current line reads ''"It should be noted that Sanborn and the other EOD members could conceivably know how to operate this rifle since one of the M107's uses as an anti-materiel rifle is using it to destroy IED's from a distance."'' The last half of that line should probably read ''"...as a one of the M107's uses as an anti-materiel rifle is to destroy IED's from a distance."'' The "uses... is using it" is a little awkward. I would tweak this myself, but the page is kinda' locked down.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 02:39, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:I changed it, the page was locked because a user kept changing the Glock model. But shouldn't it be "as a one of the M107's uses is an anti-materiel rifle is to destroy IED's from a distance."?--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:03, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
::Current line: "as a one of the M107's uses as an anti-materiel rifle is to destroy IED's from a distance". Just remove that first "a". Changing the "as an" to "is an" wouldn't read as smoothly. Since it's describing a role that it serves specifically because it functions as an anti-materiel rifle (as opposed to just a regular sniper rifle), "as an" works just fine.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 05:57, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

== The PMC AKMS is not really AKMS ==

I do not think that is purely AKMS cuz you could see the reciever should be AKS47...
:You are correct that it is not a regular AKMS (lacks the indent above the magazine well), but it is still a stamped receiver so not an AKS47 (that has a long rectangular indent above the magazine well. My guess, it is a [[AKMS#Romanian_WASR|Romanian WASR-10]]. There is no pic of this 7.62x39mm version on the site, but the rivets above the magazine well are in the same place as the other versions, making it a match for the film's guns. Apart from the Valmet M76 (where the rivets are in the wrong place and would need a lot more modification) this is the only gun I can think of which has a flat sided receiver above the mag well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:03, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
::Just realised the one in the film has a folding stock, and should point out that there were underfolding variants of the WASR, although these were rare (apparently only 300 were imported into the US). Anyone know how difficult it is to turn a regular WASR into an under-folder? Is it just a case of replacing the rear trunnion and drilling a hole for the stock, or is it more complicated than that? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:37, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
::[[File:1romakm47gpwasr10uf1501.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Romanian WASR-10 UF - 7.62x39mm]]
:::The Hurt Locker wasn't filmed in the US though so it's more likely that some of the weapons came from more local armourers. It is possible that most of the PMC AKMS rifles were actually airsoft guns as well as I only remember one of the PMC people actually firing his rifle, but it's been a while since I've seen this. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:57, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
::::Maybe, but bear in mind that if it was an airsoft gun it would either be based on an AK-47 or an AKM, and would have the correct lower receiver with dimple/indent. I don't think the WASR is only available in the US (I mentioned the number imported into US to demonstrate its relative rarity), it is the export version of the PM md. 63 so think it would be available in other countries. Having said that, I think the WASRs that are manufactured in Romania have single stack magazines (lack of dimple on lower receiver is to do with this) and the US WASRs are converted to double stack by the importer Century Arms, but I would assume that this conversion can be done by importers in countries other than the US or by individual armourers. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:39, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
:::::I mentioned about the filming location because you mentioned about only a few being exported into the US. Another gun that I thought it could be when I was looking on the AK page was the Bulgarian AR AKs. Is that a possibility? I don't know a lot about the differences between specific varients down to the little details lol. I only wondered that it could be an airsoft version because I'm pretty sure that one of the airsoft companies made an AK model that looked very similar to that at one point. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:07, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
::::::Is definitely not an Arsenel AR as that has no flash hider, larger type front sight and a milled receiver. The easiest way to tell receiver type is the long rectangular indent indent in the lower receiver above the magazine well on a milled receiver, wheras normally stamped receiver guns have a much smaller rounded indent above the magazine well. The gun in this film has neither, and the only AK pattern rifles I can think of that don't have an indent here are the Valmet M76 (which this isn't), and a WASR. I'm going to change the page to a WASR, as even if that isn't what the gun is, it is identical in every way as far as I can tell.--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:37, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

::::::::Here are my thoughts on this issue:

::::::::(1.) Someone pointed out that the weapon might have come from local armorers. Actually, most of the guns in this movie were supplied by American and Canadian armories and imported to Jordan for filming (if you look at the credits, the credited armorers include David Fencl, who is an American, and Charles Taylor, who is Canadian). With some exceptions - i.e. the Beretta 92 which came from a Jordanian military officer after the 92FS got held up in customs - we can assume most of the hardware in this film came from American armories.

::::::::(2.) I have postulated (though without evidence) that the AKMS rifles in this movie are the same ones from ''[[The Kingdom]]'' (an American movie filmed in the U.S.), except with the AK-74 flash hiders removed.

::::::::(3.) Movie guns are often built up from parts of different guns of different brands. This is particularly true of AR variants, which is why I always insist that we never label a gun as a "Colt M16A2" or "Colt M4A1" instead of just "M4A1". Indeed, in this movie, as I pointed out, the M4 used by Eldridge is actually an M4 upper on a Lewis Machine & Tool lower receiver. I would guess that the same is true of the AKMS rifles - they're custom-built guns that were constructed from stock receivers and fitted with parts kits.

::::::::(4.) Therefore, I do not want the rifles to be labeled as "WASR-10s" since we can't verify this. "AKMS" is the catch-all term for ALL rifles that look like AKMS until we can verify exact manufacturer. If any armorers on here can get us more info on these guns and prove that they are WASR-10s, then cool. Until then, we call them "AKMS".

::::::::Cheers, -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 08:48, 2 February 2012 (CST)
:::::::::These are not the same as the guns from ''The Kingodom'', as those ones are fitted with a different RIS system and use the standard stamped AKMS folding stock, wheras these guns use an AK-47 type stock. I don't see the problem with calling this a WASR-10, as this is the only gun that has a stamped receiver without the dimple above the magazine well. Although these may be built up from several different rifles, the receiver is unique to a WASR, and everything else matches a WASR-10. I think what I read before about the underfolding being rare (less than 300) was BS, as have googled it and have found a few of them for sale at about $400 - $500 so they are obviously around. Quoting from Wikipedia: "''After the sunset of the assault weapons ban, importers were able to legally equip WASR-10s with compensators, bayonet lugs, and folding stocks, thus making the GP WASR-10 (with GP standing for general purpose).''" --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:08, 2 February 2012 (CST)

Talk:Arma 3

2012-07-10T06:49:06Z

Scarecrow:

== F2000 Foregrip ==
The F2000's foregrip is a Monolith Arms Tri-Rail System. Since Monolith Arms got bought by Magpul, Magpul may start producing them. I don't know. But that's why the F2000 has the P90 style foregrip.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/Halomfg/DSCN5779.jpg?t=1257801238
--[[User:1SAZ|1SAZ]] 03:35, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

== Sniper rifle on the poster. ==

I put it down as a [[Barrett M99]], but can't be absolutely certain that its not a [[Barrett M95]] without seeing the magazine (of lack thereof), but the length of the forend makes me think M99. Can anyone who knows more about these confirm? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 09:52, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

Well, the guys on BIS forums are guessing M95. Also, about that unknown gun, it kinda sorta could be the new Skorpion. The EVO one? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 18:20, 26 June 2011 (CDT)
:I think your very well right about the unknown gun being the CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1, yep, it's defiantly it, way to go Tanaj! :) [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:51, 26 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well, to be honest I looked it up on their forum. But to my credit it was one of my guesses even before that. :) [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 09:02, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== Machine gun - Caseless ammo? ==
Anyone else notice that the ammo appears to look like the LSAT's caseless round? (http://cdn1.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/lsat_ammunition-tfb.jpg for reference) --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:50, 28 June 2011 (CDT)
:Difficult to say, might be just an early model, but I do remember seeing a screenshot from the E3 presentation with a reload/pickup prompt with some more exotic round. 6.8 I think, but I'm not sure. [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 09:02, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== Any ideas? ==

on what the unknown rifle is? i've seen the stock somewhere but the straight mag throws me (Could be for 6.5/6.8mm rounds) http://i.imgur.com/wUNOD.jpg
Source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0tOSjYgGvHw#!

Looks to just be Bohemia's take on the Remington ACR, similar to their take on the KAC LMG. Stock seems to be a cross between the ACR adjustable stock and a Magpul UBR, receiver configuration looks to have the same profile. Same overall weapon profile, with some key differences (Like location of the charging handle, and rail system). But my money is that it was just based off of the ACR. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:50, 1 June 2012 (CDT)
:Confirmed by a inside source, its in game name is the MX, its the NATO standard rifle and it fires the 6.5 Grendel. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 06:36, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::Not so much inside source as its name being plastered on all the E3 infantry gameplay.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 06:31, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::: No, inside source, I've known for a few months but haven't been on the site for a while; the gurrilla's also use the tavor... [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 06:36, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:::: Tavor was one of the first weapons shown. Post something unknown for credibility. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 10:07, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::::: Well i would love to but i prefer to avoid breaking my NDA and losing €25,000... [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 19:22, 14 June 2012 (CDT)
Is it just me or does the magazine look too small for 6.5mm Grendel? Or maybe the scaling is just off in that first screenshot. Also, it is odd they have made the magazine straight, as the 6.5mm Grendel roung has a taper so the mag would need to be curved just like a .223. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:45, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:That said, could it perhaps be chambered in some fictional caseless round? From what I understand (which is, granted, only stuff freely available online), the LSAT concept using a 5.56mm round isn't finalised and could be subject to change (assuming it ever sees the light of day). I suspect that this might be Bohemia's guess at what the LSAT rifle might look like. Just conjecture, but I thought it couldn't hurt to float the idea. [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 20:10, 4 July 2012 (CDT)

== Glock 19 ==
As noted as a PO7, it is most likely a place holder for the CZ PO7 Duty, thoughts? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 01:49, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Medal of Honor: Warfighter

2012-07-09T14:31:58Z

Scarecrow: /* Steyr AUG */

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 25 February 2012, 22:10, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"I hope it will be more exciting than the previous one... and set into the present day, or near future (as for MW2 and MW3)."

<nowiki>*wonders how this one will Americanise historical events*</nowiki>[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:13, 25 February 2012 (CST)

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar---[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:04, 26 February 2012 (CST)Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 25 February 2012, 22:20, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"You're perfectly right, The Wierd It."

If they set it in the near future, it'll just be another CoD clone with tacticool AKs, ACRs, G36s, and all that BS. Being based on real events (and people, in the case of Rabbit, Panther, and Dusty) is one of the things I liked about MoH2010. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 25 February 2012 (CST)

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 25 February 2012, 22:20, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"Perhaps you're right once more, The Weird It/Spartan 198. Which makes the difference between it and Modern Warfare Games... Yes."

== LaRue OBR ==

I changed the M4 entry, but I don't have a picture of the OBR without LaRue watermaks. -- Spike785 2/25/2012 10:35PM

Yeah, I went ahead and removed the M4 picture. No point in having it there if it isn't the weapon being described. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:53, 25 February 2012 (CST)

I suppose I should have done that. Should I link the 7.62 OBR pic? Or buy one and upload some sexy pics of it? [[User:Spike785|Spike785]] 23:19, 25 February 2012

Its not an OBR like I originaly thought, its a PredatAR. The handguard is too thin to be an OBR's, and the way the handguard angles up toward the reciever gives it away. [[User:Spike785|Spike785]] 9:21, 26 February 2012

:It is an OBR 5.56, the top rail is raised up higher than on a PredatAR. The 5.56 OBR is pretty different to the 7.62 in terms of the handguard being more like the PredatAR one. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:04, 26 February 2012 (CST)

== MEU(SOC) Pistol? ==

Is that the M1911 variant in new game? The lower part of slide doesn't seem to end like one. It could be one of custom M1911s used by Delta Force. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 8 March 2012 (CST)

I'm just happy there's a 1911, period. lol Hopefully it appears in the SP campaign, though. I've no interest in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 8 March 2012 (CST)

the M1911 makes me happy as well but I'd also like to see another SIG in SP. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:20, 8 March 2012 (CST)

== Sniper Rifle in Trailer ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/03/shoot-win Shoot To Win | Medal of Honor]

It's one of the four: [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-cs5.php CS5] / [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-300.php TAC-300] / [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-50.php TAC-50] / [http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?clicktype=rifles M1A] (McMillan customized)

And totally not M40 of any kind.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:58, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Sweet, we get to play as Ryan McMillan. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:24, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

It's propbly the the TAC-300, the limited edition of the game come with a MP SEAL skin and the TAC-300 rifle early unlocks. - Wantabe_Warrior

== More details of the cover art! ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/03/worlds-finest-illumination-tools-and-tactical-products SureFire, LLC | Medal of Honor]

The [http://www.surefire.com/FA556-212-Suppressor FA556-212 Sound Suppressor], attached to the [http://www.surefire.com/mb556k-muzzle-brakeadapter.html MB556K Muzzle Brake / Suppressor Adapter];

The [http://www.surefire.com/m720v.html M720V RAID WeaponLight], attached to the left rail of the weapon, with its remote dual switch attached to the top rail of the weapon.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:23, 31 March 2012 (CDT)

== Dual Sights! ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/04/brilliant-aiming-solutions Trijicon, Inc. | Medal of Honor]

''"We will also give the player the ability to deploy ACOG® weapon sights with a “piggy-back” Ruggedized Miniature Reflex or RMR® for close-quarter engagements without having to transition from the primary to a secondary weapon system. But just in case, if gamers want to forgo all magnification, they may also choose to outfit their weapon with the full sized Trijicon Reflex Sight."''

'''Another conclusion''': the weapon sight on the cover art turns out to be [http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_TA01NSNRMR_p/trijicon-ta01nsn-rmr.htm TA01NSN-RMR] rather than [http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_TA01NSNDOC_p/trijicon-ta01nsn-doc.htm TA01NSN-DOC].

'''Another speculation''': will the [http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RX01 RX01] / [http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RX01NSN RX01NSN] reflex sight have correct amber dot reticle, like IRL, or incorrect red dot reticle, like in [[Battlefield 3|BF3]]? Place your bets.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:46, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

== MP interview firearms ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-wWouKKQEM&feature=player_embedded

SASR armed with an AUG (I assume Austeyr) at 0:55 and a mortar of some sort at 1:08.[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]]
:Don't think it is an Austeyr as it is missing the bayonet lug on the barrel. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:01, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Steyr AUG ==

In a video report of the E3 2012 on the official website the AUG make a short apperance. It's actual game footage from the multiplayer contest at the LA expo and the rifle is shown used by the guys who won the contest. It appears with a tan camo and dual sight.
(sorry fot eh weak english)
:By the look of the camoflage on the arm (DPDU) it looks like its for the aussies, though thats a little erroneous seeing we have our own steyrs (F88SA2's as of current, see [http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=89682.0;attach=29950;image])

Talk:Arma 3

2012-06-15T00:22:39Z

Scarecrow: /* Any ideas? */

Talk:Arma 3

2012-06-07T11:36:55Z

Scarecrow: /* Any ideas? */

Talk:Arma 3

2012-06-07T11:29:38Z

Scarecrow: /* Any ideas? */

Talk:Arma 3

2012-06-01T15:30:55Z

Scarecrow: /* Any ideas? */

Talk:Arma 3

2012-06-01T15:29:18Z

Scarecrow: /* Any ideas? */

Talk:Arma 3

2012-06-01T15:28:32Z

Scarecrow:

Talk:Sea Patrol

2012-04-27T04:21:11Z

Scarecrow:

== .38 Revolver ==
I'm not saying it's not a S/W 36, but anyone think it could be one of the Astra revolvers?-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

== CZ 75 ==

What about the CZ 75's? I'm sure I saw most of the crew armed with well used CZ pistols.

== The AKs ==
The Aks are Type 56s as noted by the Hooded front sight, wich only the Chinese Aks have.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

:Just stumbled upon this page via the random page button, and fixed it.-[[User:Deafmatch|Deafmatch]] 16:25, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

== Other shows ==

Since Sea Patrol gets a gun page, should we consider doing a page for Underbelly??? Both of those shows are on Channel Nine anyway and they are both Australian.

A page for Blue Heelers would be nice, too =)

:If you want a page made, make it yourself.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 23:38, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

== F-88 Models ==

Don't know if its worth mentioning seeing theres only one photo of it on the page but the F-88 showen with picatinny rails in the show are designated by the Australian army as the F-88S

Talk:Act of Valor

2012-03-06T13:51:40Z

Scarecrow: /* Unknown Sniper Rifle */

==Thoughts?==

Saw the trailer when I went to see Courageous. I thought it looked pretty sweet. What do you guys think? - [[User:1morey]] October 14, 2011 9:38 PM (EST)

:I'm seeing first showing on opening day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:37, 14 November 2011 (CST)

::It looks pretty impressive, even moreso in that actual SEALs were involved on-screen, not just in a behind-the-scenes consulting role like in most war films. I heard parts of this were actually retained for training purposes due to the degree of realism in the tactics and methods used in the film. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:26, 14 November 2011 (CST)

Overall, I thought the movie was lame, but that's the Marine combat vet side of me speaking, so I'm biased. On the plus side the violence and body count side of the movie is nice, and they don't try to gloss over the bloodier parts of it. But, couldn't they have put an M-14 or two in there somewhere, for old-time's sake? Maybe just for the sniper dude or something? The SEALs I know love their M-14s and I know they still carry them on some missions, just wish they would have thrown one in there. [[User:Travestytrav|Travestytrav]] 01:18, 29 February 2012 (CST)

:Apparently none of the SEALs in this one opted for M14s and I doubt the filmmakers had any leeway in what they used either. Besides, by this time they would have replaced their M14s with Mark 14s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:40, 1 March 2012 (CST)

Personaly, I thoguht they were underarmed. The whole 8-man team had M4s, exept for the sniper. None of them had M203s, M249s, or M60 variants. I've always gotten the impression the SEALS, like most special forces units, tend to be over-armed. Yet in the movie, the squad would be outgunned by any infantry squad in the world. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 15:39, 1 March 2012 (CST)

No, SEALs, as with most Special Operations Units, tend to be armed with as much as they need. The only time their ever over-armed is if their mission is expected to exceed a specific time set or they feel as though they need more than usual. SOU's choose their own armaments based on what they feel they may need to complete the mission. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 16:47, 1 March 2012 (CST)

You're never over-armed. You might not need a machinegun or grenade launcher but, as the saying goes, better to have and not need than to need and not have.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 21:33, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:Agreed. The first rule of battle is: Never fight fair. They had to know they'd be going up against guys with assault rifles in every operation, which means you always bring more than just assault rifles. They should have had at least one belt-fed weapon (more likely 2), and at least one (more likely 2) M203 if for no other reason than to shoot non-lethal and/or pyro rounds. I imagine everyone was carrying M4s to make production easier, especially since some of it was apparently live-fire. [[User:Travestytrav|Travestytrav]] 03:37, 2 March 2012 (CST)

True, but you're talking about Special Operations Units, they only carry what is necessary to get the job done. And you don't always bring more than assault rifles, sometimes they run only SMG's and pistol's. And they may know everything possible about a mission but in a second things can change but they do their best to play it in their favor. And as I stated before they choose their armaments, if they didn't think it necessary they wouldn't take it. If they need to move quick their not going to carry a belt-fed, they want light equipment to make the job easier. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 14:19, 2 March 2012 (CST)

It's SOF/SF (Special Operations Forces/Special Forces), not SOU. Also, for what it's worth, the novelization has a Mk.46 and Mk. 12 being used on the resque mission. On the other hand, the novelization is sufficiently bad that it's best to ignore it. For a work associated with Tom Clancy, it's both over-descriptive and wrong about guns. And you ALWAYS need more firepower. You are NEVER over-armed. And why on earth did they leave the machine gunners behind for the last mission? There were 3 SEALs with SAWs, and they got left behind on the mission they were realy needed on.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 16:06, 4 March 2012 (CST)

Frst, they go by either. People need to stop reading wiki, most of the info there is pretty faulty. Second you were the first to say "SOU's" were usually over-armed, so don't try and act like someone else threw it out there. You don't alwas need more fire power, if you trully need knew anything about Special Operations they almost always never carry more than they need unless they feel it necessary. What they do is ment to be done quick and their gear is always ment to be light, hence why they run the "newest of the new" equipment. One of the many reasons they are the best of the best is because they can get the job done with as little as possible. You have to remember it's still a movie, no matter how realistic they make it, things always change from novel to movie. The SEALs had a big say in how things were done, it may have been their choice to leave the three back. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 21:18, 4 March 2012 (CST)

I've never seen them refered to as "SOU", and I read a lot (not much wikipedia either). I ''do'' know a good bit about various special-ops stuff. And when did I pretend that someone else claimed they were over-armed? A 9-man sqaud in the US army has 2x M249s and 2x M203s, every other country's squads are the same or heavier. The squad in the movie went in underarmed, "Newest of the new" has more to do with better than lighter. "Light and move fast" is nice, until a bunch of bad guys come after you and you don't have any way of stoping them. An M203 round or couple of bursts from an M249 would have realy slowed down the pursuers. I know it's a movie, that's why the machine gunners got left behind, they're not main characters.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 13:08, 5 March 2012 (CST)

You continually keep replying "You are never over-armed", and making it sound like someone else said they were. I've already said this before, if you actually "do" know anything about Special Operations you would know they don't function nor run the same equipment, tactics, and missions as regular troops. Oh and read a bit more, you'll find them referred to as "SOU". And if you knew the answer to your own question, why ask it? [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 13:39, 5 March 2012 (CST)

SEALs don't go by "Special Forces" because they aren't Special Forces, ''Special Forces'' are Special Forces. SF isn't a generic term in the US military, it refers to a specific unit, that being the US Army Special Forces. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:00, 5 March 2012 (CST)

Just throwing in my two cents here, don't take this as an indication of taking sides or anything. I've read a lot of military non-fiction from the Vietnam War onwards and I've gotten the distinct impression that most teams within the special operations community usually carry a variety of weapons rather than just assault rifles. Granted, I mostly read up on the regular troops in the US Marine Corps and US Army but the books I have read on Delta Force, the Green Berets, the SAS and SASR (usually by former members) specifically mention that grenade launchers such as the M203 and LMGs such as the FN Minimi and M249 are carried into battle by said special operations units as sort of a force multiplier if required. Like the saying goes, "better safe than sorry!" Arguably, I haven't read any books by SEALs or on SEALs but most SF teams tend to work in the same general way. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 03:50, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Extended Trailer ==
I've got some additional pics from the extended trailer that I'm going to upload. Pics show a strange carbine-length sniper rifle that I can't ID (fore-end is that of an M4 with fixed FSP and KAC RIS, but it appears to have a 7.62 magazine), a Mark 11 variant (can't see the fore-end to ID which one exactly), FN Mags, FN Minimis, a possible M60D, and a handheld M60 (can't tell which variant because I can't see all of it). There's probably more, but I'll go over the trailer with a fine tooth comb later. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 14 November 2011 (CST)
:Upon closer examination, the handheld M60 is just another M240G. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:57, 15 November 2011 (CST)

== Unknown Sniper Rifle ==
Take a look.
[[File:AoVSniper.jpg|thumb|none|500px|???]]
[[File:AoVSR25.jpg|thumb|none|600px|???]]

M4 fore-end with a 7.62 mag. Any ideas as to what it is? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:06, 14 November 2011 (CST)

: Possably a SEAL Recon Rifle? See: <strike>http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5515/sealsnipers6uy1.jpg </Strike> (Wrong photo)[[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:04, 24 December 2011 (CST)

::That's a Mark 12 Mod 1, not a RECCE Rifle. RECCEs are a 16" breed, in addition to being 5.56. The rifle above has a 7.62 mag. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:02, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:::Ah, sorry, theres a RECCE rifle on the same page i got the photo from which i can't seem to find now :(, that said it could still be a 5.56 with a 20rnd mag, films do a have a history of making things look larger than they actually are *cough* preditor M134 anyone? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:16, 25 December 2011 (CST)

:::Mag still looks too big to be 5.56 to me. But whatever it is, I'm pulling that screencap from the SR-25 entry on the main page since it's clearly not an SR-25 by the short barrel and fixed front sight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:::Okay, I just got back from the movie and this rifle is ''definitely'' a 7.62. It's the same rifle that's in the screencap under the SR-25 entry (which I removed and placed here). I'm thinking maybe an AR-10 carbine? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:10, 24 February 2012 (CST)
:::: Hmm, what do we know?
-its 7.62
- it has a solid M16 style stock
- it has a fixed front sight
and has a somewhat weird foregrip, it kinda looks like a rail but isnt...
couldn't find many AR-10's (3-4 out of 50 i found) with a front fixed sight (not that it means much) unfortunatly i don't think it's even getting a release in my country (nor are there any ''other'' ways to get it) so i'll leave this to you to decide. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 07:42, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Live Fire ==

Apparently this film is gonna use live fire,which is an extreme rarity for films. Gonna be interesting to see though
:I don't believe this for a second as live ammunition is pretty much prohibited from a film set unless it's in a 100% locked down and closed environment. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:52, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::I wouldn't be so sure, if you watch the trailer the miniguns on the boats are spewing out regular empty brass rather than fired blanks. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 21:11, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:::See those look like blanks to me, and that one shot is a close up so it could have been shot on a locked down location, film editing is a clever thing ;)--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 22:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::::According to BLACKFIVE.net, it's nearly all live ammo. He saw a screening of it, talks about it here ( http://www.blackfive.net/main/2011/10/update-act-of-valor.html ). [[User:RC 5213|RC 5213]]
::::: ''Nearly all'' being the key word, i doubt any of the shots with anything other than the actual seals in the film where live fire and I doubt any of the actors used live fire. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:33, 25 December 2011 (CST)
::::::I still doubt that it was live ammo, it just seems so implausible that it would be allowed, what if one of the bullets ricocheted, missed the target, etc. It seems like an absolutely unnecessary risk to use live ammo. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 04:16, 25 December 2011 (CST)
:::::::thats the whole idea of franagle ammunation [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 23:32, 3 January 2012 (CST)
Pretty sure it would just be the SEALs using live ammo, the actors are probably using blanks. Yes it is dangerous, but the SEALs are trained to be excellent shooters so I can believe it. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 14:30, 25 December 2011 (CST)
:But like you say it's dangerous and seems like a stupid risk to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:09, 25 December 2011 (CST)
::The film was shot during various SEAL training exercises and uses them as action set pieces, so it is possible that is what the article is referring to. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 22:20, 26 December 2011 (CST)
::: Yea, if i remember correctly this was originaly made to be a recruiting video for the SEAL's that turned into a film.[[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 23:33, 3 January 2012 (CST)

My understanding from [http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/actofvalor/ this] featurette is that the live fire was done how the live fire in [[Miami Vice (2006)]] was done. Shoot the shit out of whatever you want shot, then add any people you need in the scene after. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 06:58, 14 January 2012 (CST)

[http://www.youtube.com/actofvalormovie] The making of video shows that they used both blanks and Live Fire.

Just my two cents, I thought the movie was lame, but one thing I did notice was how realistic some of the weapons' firing sounded, so it doesn't surprise me that some of the shooting was live-fire. I would say any live-fire shooting was being done by the SEALs since it was only the M4s firing that sounded real. Most of the pistol shooting and ALL of the AK-47 shooting sounded fake. [[User:Travestytrav|Travestytrav]] 01:09, 29 February 2012 (CST)

Live fire was definitely used in some (or all) the miniguns on the river boats. In a flyover shot, you can see the barrels get red hot on the miniguns, I doubt that can happen with blanks, as it is the friction of the bullets going down the barrels that causes the barrels to get red hot. I'm pretty sure if it was just blanks, the gases don't hang around long enough to warm up the barrel that much.

== Something clearly wrong with the front sight. ==

[[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AOV-M4-3.jpg]]
Is it just me or there is some kind of "solid" front sight? Or,could it be just water? [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 18:03, 26 February 2012 (CST)
:Looks like just water to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:29, 26 February 2012 (CST)

==Guns==
I think I saw a M933 or Mk18 on the yacht, though it may have just been a M4. Also, a gunman in one of the trucks seemed to have a Beretta M12 or Walther MPL/MPK, any ideas? A few bad guys had pistols, but I couldb't see them well.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 20:32, 28 February 2012 (CST)

I thought I'd saw a Mark 18, too, but it didn't appear anywhere else, so I presumed it to be just another M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:34, 1 March 2012 (CST)

This website as a photo of SEALs with Mark 18s and as far as I can tell this is the only time they are used in the movie.

http://www.filmofilia.com/act-of-valor-tv-spot-87064/

Talk:Act of Valor

2012-03-06T13:42:23Z

Scarecrow: /* Unknown Sniper Rifle */

==Thoughts?==

Saw the trailer when I went to see Courageous. I thought it looked pretty sweet. What do you guys think? - [[User:1morey]] October 14, 2011 9:38 PM (EST)

:I'm seeing first showing on opening day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:37, 14 November 2011 (CST)

::It looks pretty impressive, even moreso in that actual SEALs were involved on-screen, not just in a behind-the-scenes consulting role like in most war films. I heard parts of this were actually retained for training purposes due to the degree of realism in the tactics and methods used in the film. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:26, 14 November 2011 (CST)

Overall, I thought the movie was lame, but that's the Marine combat vet side of me speaking, so I'm biased. On the plus side the violence and body count side of the movie is nice, and they don't try to gloss over the bloodier parts of it. But, couldn't they have put an M-14 or two in there somewhere, for old-time's sake? Maybe just for the sniper dude or something? The SEALs I know love their M-14s and I know they still carry them on some missions, just wish they would have thrown one in there. [[User:Travestytrav|Travestytrav]] 01:18, 29 February 2012 (CST)

:Apparently none of the SEALs in this one opted for M14s and I doubt the filmmakers had any leeway in what they used either. Besides, by this time they would have replaced their M14s with Mark 14s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:40, 1 March 2012 (CST)

Personaly, I thoguht they were underarmed. The whole 8-man team had M4s, exept for the sniper. None of them had M203s, M249s, or M60 variants. I've always gotten the impression the SEALS, like most special forces units, tend to be over-armed. Yet in the movie, the squad would be outgunned by any infantry squad in the world. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 15:39, 1 March 2012 (CST)

No, SEALs, as with most Special Operations Units, tend to be armed with as much as they need. The only time their ever over-armed is if their mission is expected to exceed a specific time set or they feel as though they need more than usual. SOU's choose their own armaments based on what they feel they may need to complete the mission. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 16:47, 1 March 2012 (CST)

You're never over-armed. You might not need a machinegun or grenade launcher but, as the saying goes, better to have and not need than to need and not have.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 21:33, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:Agreed. The first rule of battle is: Never fight fair. They had to know they'd be going up against guys with assault rifles in every operation, which means you always bring more than just assault rifles. They should have had at least one belt-fed weapon (more likely 2), and at least one (more likely 2) M203 if for no other reason than to shoot non-lethal and/or pyro rounds. I imagine everyone was carrying M4s to make production easier, especially since some of it was apparently live-fire. [[User:Travestytrav|Travestytrav]] 03:37, 2 March 2012 (CST)

True, but you're talking about Special Operations Units, they only carry what is necessary to get the job done. And you don't always bring more than assault rifles, sometimes they run only SMG's and pistol's. And they may know everything possible about a mission but in a second things can change but they do their best to play it in their favor. And as I stated before they choose their armaments, if they didn't think it necessary they wouldn't take it. If they need to move quick their not going to carry a belt-fed, they want light equipment to make the job easier. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 14:19, 2 March 2012 (CST)

It's SOF/SF (Special Operations Forces/Special Forces), not SOU. Also, for what it's worth, the novelization has a Mk.46 and Mk. 12 being used on the resque mission. On the other hand, the novelization is sufficiently bad that it's best to ignore it. For a work associated with Tom Clancy, it's both over-descriptive and wrong about guns. And you ALWAYS need more firepower. You are NEVER over-armed. And why on earth did they leave the machine gunners behind for the last mission? There were 3 SEALs with SAWs, and they got left behind on the mission they were realy needed on.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 16:06, 4 March 2012 (CST)

Frst, they go by either. People need to stop reading wiki, most of the info there is pretty faulty. Second you were the first to say "SOU's" were usually over-armed, so don't try and act like someone else threw it out there. You don't alwas need more fire power, if you trully need knew anything about Special Operations they almost always never carry more than they need unless they feel it necessary. What they do is ment to be done quick and their gear is always ment to be light, hence why they run the "newest of the new" equipment. One of the many reasons they are the best of the best is because they can get the job done with as little as possible. You have to remember it's still a movie, no matter how realistic they make it, things always change from novel to movie. The SEALs had a big say in how things were done, it may have been their choice to leave the three back. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 21:18, 4 March 2012 (CST)

I've never seen them refered to as "SOU", and I read a lot (not much wikipedia either). I ''do'' know a good bit about various special-ops stuff. And when did I pretend that someone else claimed they were over-armed? A 9-man sqaud in the US army has 2x M249s and 2x M203s, every other country's squads are the same or heavier. The squad in the movie went in underarmed, "Newest of the new" has more to do with better than lighter. "Light and move fast" is nice, until a bunch of bad guys come after you and you don't have any way of stoping them. An M203 round or couple of bursts from an M249 would have realy slowed down the pursuers. I know it's a movie, that's why the machine gunners got left behind, they're not main characters.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 13:08, 5 March 2012 (CST)

You continually keep replying "You are never over-armed", and making it sound like someone else said they were. I've already said this before, if you actually "do" know anything about Special Operations you would know they don't function nor run the same equipment, tactics, and missions as regular troops. Oh and read a bit more, you'll find them referred to as "SOU". And if you knew the answer to your own question, why ask it? [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 13:39, 5 March 2012 (CST)

SEALs don't go by "Special Forces" because they aren't Special Forces, ''Special Forces'' are Special Forces. SF isn't a generic term in the US military, it refers to a specific unit, that being the US Army Special Forces. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:00, 5 March 2012 (CST)

Just throwing in my two cents here, don't take this as an indication of taking sides or anything. I've read a lot of military non-fiction from the Vietnam War onwards and I've gotten the distinct impression that most teams within the special operations community usually carry a variety of weapons rather than just assault rifles. Granted, I mostly read up on the regular troops in the US Marine Corps and US Army but the books I have read on Delta Force, the Green Berets, the SAS and SASR (usually by former members) specifically mention that grenade launchers such as the M203 and LMGs such as the FN Minimi and M249 are carried into battle by said special operations units as sort of a force multiplier if required. Like the saying goes, "better safe than sorry!" Arguably, I haven't read any books by SEALs or on SEALs but most SF teams tend to work in the same general way. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 03:50, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Extended Trailer ==
I've got some additional pics from the extended trailer that I'm going to upload. Pics show a strange carbine-length sniper rifle that I can't ID (fore-end is that of an M4 with fixed FSP and KAC RIS, but it appears to have a 7.62 magazine), a Mark 11 variant (can't see the fore-end to ID which one exactly), FN Mags, FN Minimis, a possible M60D, and a handheld M60 (can't tell which variant because I can't see all of it). There's probably more, but I'll go over the trailer with a fine tooth comb later. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 14 November 2011 (CST)
:Upon closer examination, the handheld M60 is just another M240G. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:57, 15 November 2011 (CST)

== Unknown Sniper Rifle ==
Take a look.
[[File:AoVSniper.jpg|thumb|none|500px|???]]
[[File:AoVSR25.jpg|thumb|none|600px|???]]

M4 fore-end with a 7.62 mag. Any ideas as to what it is? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:06, 14 November 2011 (CST)

: Possably a SEAL Recon Rifle? See: <strike>http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5515/sealsnipers6uy1.jpg </Strike> (Wrong photo)[[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:04, 24 December 2011 (CST)

::That's a Mark 12 Mod 1, not a RECCE Rifle. RECCEs are a 16" breed, in addition to being 5.56. The rifle above has a 7.62 mag. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:02, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:::Ah, sorry, theres a RECCE rifle on the same page i got the photo from which i can't seem to find now :(, that said it could still be a 5.56 with a 20rnd mag, films do a have a history of making things look larger than they actually are *cough* preditor M134 anyone? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:16, 25 December 2011 (CST)

:::Mag still looks too big to be 5.56 to me. But whatever it is, I'm pulling that screencap from the SR-25 entry on the main page since it's clearly not an SR-25 by the short barrel and fixed front sight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:::Okay, I just got back from the movie and this rifle is ''definitely'' a 7.62. It's the same rifle that's in the screencap under the SR-25 entry (which I removed and placed here). I'm thinking maybe an AR-10 carbine? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:10, 24 February 2012 (CST)
:::: Hmm, couldn't find many AR-10's (3-4 out of 50 i found) with a front fixed sight (not that it means much) unfortunatly i don't think it's even getting a release in my country (nor are there any ''other'' ways to get it) so i'll leave this to you to decide. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 07:42, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== Live Fire ==

Apparently this film is gonna use live fire,which is an extreme rarity for films. Gonna be interesting to see though
:I don't believe this for a second as live ammunition is pretty much prohibited from a film set unless it's in a 100% locked down and closed environment. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:52, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::I wouldn't be so sure, if you watch the trailer the miniguns on the boats are spewing out regular empty brass rather than fired blanks. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 21:11, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:::See those look like blanks to me, and that one shot is a close up so it could have been shot on a locked down location, film editing is a clever thing ;)--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 22:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::::According to BLACKFIVE.net, it's nearly all live ammo. He saw a screening of it, talks about it here ( http://www.blackfive.net/main/2011/10/update-act-of-valor.html ). [[User:RC 5213|RC 5213]]
::::: ''Nearly all'' being the key word, i doubt any of the shots with anything other than the actual seals in the film where live fire and I doubt any of the actors used live fire. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:33, 25 December 2011 (CST)
::::::I still doubt that it was live ammo, it just seems so implausible that it would be allowed, what if one of the bullets ricocheted, missed the target, etc. It seems like an absolutely unnecessary risk to use live ammo. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 04:16, 25 December 2011 (CST)
:::::::thats the whole idea of franagle ammunation [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 23:32, 3 January 2012 (CST)
Pretty sure it would just be the SEALs using live ammo, the actors are probably using blanks. Yes it is dangerous, but the SEALs are trained to be excellent shooters so I can believe it. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 14:30, 25 December 2011 (CST)
:But like you say it's dangerous and seems like a stupid risk to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:09, 25 December 2011 (CST)
::The film was shot during various SEAL training exercises and uses them as action set pieces, so it is possible that is what the article is referring to. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 22:20, 26 December 2011 (CST)
::: Yea, if i remember correctly this was originaly made to be a recruiting video for the SEAL's that turned into a film.[[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 23:33, 3 January 2012 (CST)

My understanding from [http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/actofvalor/ this] featurette is that the live fire was done how the live fire in [[Miami Vice (2006)]] was done. Shoot the shit out of whatever you want shot, then add any people you need in the scene after. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 06:58, 14 January 2012 (CST)

[http://www.youtube.com/actofvalormovie] The making of video shows that they used both blanks and Live Fire.

Just my two cents, I thought the movie was lame, but one thing I did notice was how realistic some of the weapons' firing sounded, so it doesn't surprise me that some of the shooting was live-fire. I would say any live-fire shooting was being done by the SEALs since it was only the M4s firing that sounded real. Most of the pistol shooting and ALL of the AK-47 shooting sounded fake. [[User:Travestytrav|Travestytrav]] 01:09, 29 February 2012 (CST)

Live fire was definitely used in some (or all) the miniguns on the river boats. In a flyover shot, you can see the barrels get red hot on the miniguns, I doubt that can happen with blanks, as it is the friction of the bullets going down the barrels that causes the barrels to get red hot. I'm pretty sure if it was just blanks, the gases don't hang around long enough to warm up the barrel that much.

== Something clearly wrong with the front sight. ==

[[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AOV-M4-3.jpg]]
Is it just me or there is some kind of "solid" front sight? Or,could it be just water? [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 18:03, 26 February 2012 (CST)
:Looks like just water to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:29, 26 February 2012 (CST)

==Guns==
I think I saw a M933 or Mk18 on the yacht, though it may have just been a M4. Also, a gunman in one of the trucks seemed to have a Beretta M12 or Walther MPL/MPK, any ideas? A few bad guys had pistols, but I couldb't see them well.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 20:32, 28 February 2012 (CST)

I thought I'd saw a Mark 18, too, but it didn't appear anywhere else, so I presumed it to be just another M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:34, 1 March 2012 (CST)

This website as a photo of SEALs with Mark 18s and as far as I can tell this is the only time they are used in the movie.

http://www.filmofilia.com/act-of-valor-tv-spot-87064/

Talk:Bushmaster ACR

2012-01-15T15:18:23Z

Scarecrow: /* Title */

== Additional Images ==
[[Image:ACR 10.5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Remington ACR with 10.5" barrel, tan finish, Magpul PMag and tri-rail handguard - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

=ACR fragility=

News about this gun folks. The ACR has been reported to have several problems with the gas system. The piston seems to be very prone to breakdowns.
The quality is also really lousy and the plastic cracks easily. It looks like Remington's quality control no longer exists. Hughjefender
:Source? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 14:08, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
::Sounds more like a design flaw than bad QC.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
That, and the fact that it's being recalled for randomly emptying the mag, leads me to believe that this is only the first of many problems. -SasquatchJim

Yeah, I'll try to ask my friend about the source of his info. He gets a lot of info from Highroad, Calguns, Arf-Com, and even K. I get skeptical about his stuff sometimes. Hughjefender.

== Title ==

Shouldn't this page be called ''Magpul Masada'' since that is the base gun? Like with the lost of variants on the M1911 page. Now this is like calling M249 the FN Minimi page... - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:55, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:other way round, Minimi was the base LMG, but anyway, most of the time its the name that is most commonly used/known by thats given to a page, in this case its kinda iffy seeing theres been 3 producers [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 09:17, 15 January 2012 (CST)

Talk:Bushmaster ACR

2012-01-15T15:17:31Z

Scarecrow: /* Title */

== Additional Images ==
[[Image:ACR 10.5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Remington ACR with 10.5" barrel, tan finish, Magpul PMag and tri-rail handguard - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

=ACR fragility=

News about this gun folks. The ACR has been reported to have several problems with the gas system. The piston seems to be very prone to breakdowns.
The quality is also really lousy and the plastic cracks easily. It looks like Remington's quality control no longer exists. Hughjefender
:Source? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 14:08, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
::Sounds more like a design flaw than bad QC.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
That, and the fact that it's being recalled for randomly emptying the mag, leads me to believe that this is only the first of many problems. -SasquatchJim

Yeah, I'll try to ask my friend about the source of his info. He gets a lot of info from Highroad, Calguns, Arf-Com, and even K. I get skeptical about his stuff sometimes. Hughjefender.

== Title ==

Shouldn't this page be called ''Magpul Masada'' since that is the base gun? Like with the lost of variants on the M1911 page. Now this is like calling M249 the FN Minimi page... - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 04:55, 9 August 2011 (CDT)
:other way round, Minimi was the base LMG, but anyway, anyone clear this up? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 09:17, 15 January 2012 (CST)

Talk:Heckler & Koch MP7

2012-01-04T06:07:18Z

Scarecrow:

==Additional Images==
[[Image:MP7A1-30.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 with 30-round magazine, sound suppressor and red dot sight - 4.6x30mm]]

==Discussion==
Do we really have to say it's a completly different "configuration" when the stock or grip is folded or unfolded? Seems a little unnecessary to me. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:46, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yeah, it's marketing nonsense, it's like saying my front door has "hole" and "wall" configurations. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::What about the M16 page, there all different "configurations" for the AR-15 platform and on that page is around 60 "configurations" and about 55 of those are made by Colt. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:04, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::There's a difference between that and the ''exact same weapon'' with the grip up or down and the stock extended or not extended. If we went like this, we'd need a seperate entry for all six positions of the M4's 6-position stock. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:08, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
:::well then lets just keep the 1st and 3rd pics, they're the most used on this site and they're the most different from each other, I almost never see the 2nd/middle one used. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:19, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
::::Oh, I don't have a problem with the images, I just rewrote the intro to make it clear the "configurations" are marketing nonsense rather than actual other configurations of the weapon. After all, folding the stock and foregrip of an SMG doesn't magically turn it into a handgun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Alright, danke. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:38, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

I love the design of the MP7. The ONLY, and I mean the only, thing I don't like about the MP7 is its possibly low "killing" power per bullet. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:44, 23 June 2011 (CDT)
:According to [http://web.archive.org/web/20061016074936/www.global-defence.com/2006/Utilities/article.php?id=40 this study], the 4.6x30mm rounds the MP7 fires are less powerful against both armoured and unarmoured targets than FN's 5.7x28mm rounds. The study also says that the 5.7x28mm round is also easier to make as it is based on the 5.56mm NATO round, causes less barrel erosion, and is less temperature-sensitive.
:On the other hand, the MP7's ergonomics win out over the FN P90 in some ways. For one, the MP7 has an actual foregrip rather than just a hole for your off-hand's thumb. You can carry the MP7 in a pistol-like holster due to its design, and its reloading scheme is quick and intuitive since your off-hand can easily find your trigger hand when it comes to insert the magazine into the pistol grip. Still, at such a short barrel length (7.1 inches, or 180 mm) the MP7 is even more of a short-ranged weapon than the FN P90 is, which could be a problem for its versatility, though its ergonomics are good to allow second-line personnel and the like who are less-qualified at marksmanship to use it easily.
:A solution to the MP7's problems would be to adapt an APCR caliber like the Russian armour-piercing 9x19mm rounds, or even an APCR version of the 10x25mm rounds for better stopping power against both armoured and unarmoured targets. Lengthening the barrel would allow allow for better range as well as the mounting space necessary to mount something like HK's M320 grenade launcher--now that would be a feature that the FN P90 can't match. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:02, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

::A M320 grenade launcher on a MP7, lolz. The MP7 was meant from the get go to be a compact Machine-pistol/Submachine gun for personal defense, not a assault rifle. :D P.S. the MP7 chambered in FN's 5.7x28mm might be a win. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:19, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:Well, some M203 launchers have been attached to MP5s before, so the distinction isn't quite as clear-cut. A longer-barrelled "offensive" version of the MP7 (maybe called the MP7A2?) with the ability to mount an M26 MASS or M320 would be a nice, more efficient alternative to a CQBR or G36C since the shorter round (compared to 5.56mm NATO) means less of the powder goes to waste as useless flash and blast when firing. You could carry this MP7A2 for offense as a primary arm, and an MP7A1 in a holster for a backup weapon, and use the exact same magazines and ammunition. With something like that, HK could hack into the market share long held by M4A1s meant for CQB.
:And the German delegation rejected the standardization proposal for the 5.7x28mm round, causing it be indefinitely postponed. Maybe HK is still more than a little miffed that FN won the SCAR competition (as if Belgium getting thoroughly trounced in both World Wars wasn't enough)? In any case, HK has a real winner here if they make the necessary changes. Hope they get better luck with this project than they did with the XM8 (which was also an underappreciated gun). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:27, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

::I'm sorry but a compact Submachine gun with a under-barrel grenade launcher or shotgun just sounds kinda silly. :P Well FN didn't really have a true victory since the US Military barely use or issue the SCAR rifles. :\ The US Military actually likes the H&K HK416 better. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:59, 10 July 2011 (CDT)

:::Actually, given that image I dug up it seems that the MP7 was originally designed to be the bottom half of the XM29. So it was supposed to be attached to a grenade launcher, not have a grenade launcher attached to it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:03, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

::::In Soviet Russia, assault weapon mounts to grenade launcher! :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 03:42, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

Well, it would be great to have an underbarrel weapon, but it is just too cumbersome and a hassle to carry, considering its primary role is CQB. Also, neither the P90 or the MP7 are the best in terms of opinion, statistics, and design. Both have distinctive advantages in certain places. The P90 is ambidextrous, meaning that a left-handed shooter would not expect hot brass to hit him in the face. Instead, the spent cartridges are ejected below the weapon. The P90 has a higher magazine capacity than the MP7, allowing prolonged firing. The P90's magazine is placed on top of the weapon so the shooter would not have severe limitations when crouching and going prone. The MP7's advantages over the P90 are its weight (two pounds lighter than the P90), the ability to fire with one hand (only applies if firing semi-automatically), and a grip to allow more effective recoil control and accuracy. Choosing the P90 or the MP7 is a matter of preference as both weapons are designed to be effective in CQB. In my opinion, I think that the TDI Vector is more advanced and effective than both the P90 and the MP7 in statistics, though I still like the MP7 and the P90. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 22:22, 16 September 2011 (CDT)

:Yup. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:58, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

One thing I also want to add is that the MP7 has a low chance of jamming in certain environments than the P90 due to the gas system (similar to that of the G36). The gas system can block out sand, mud, water, and dirt, allowing the weapon to remain perfectly functional in most environments. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 10:35, 17 September 2011 (CDT)

:What's wrong with the P90's system? Are you trying to spreading H&K propaganda? ;D (FYI, I am an H&K fan.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:09, 18 September 2011 (CDT)
There is technically nothing wrong with the P90. I am just pointing out one major advantage the MP7 has I didn't add to the post above. Like I said, I still love both the P90 and the MP7. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 23:46, 23 September 2011 (CDT)

I still believe that the [[Crysis#.22MPX8.22|MPX8]] from Crysis is a good direction for H&K to take with a possible longer-barrelled MP7A2 variant. Something like that, with its very compact telescoping stock, the ability to mount an underslung shotgun like the M26 MASS, and the ease of reloading in the pistol grip (since your hand finds your other hand easily), would make for a great CQB military or law enforcement weapon. The underslung shotgun can be loaded with less-lethal ammunition for police work, or if you really are feeling undergunned, be used with the new Frag-12 High Explosive rounds! Enlarging the grip to accomodate a quad-stack casket magazine would be welcome too, since that would mean you could now carry 40+ rounds without sacrificing the ability for effective use while in a prone position. Anyone know what the minimum mounting space is necessary for the M26 MASS? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:12, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:Silly, so silly. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:19, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::Now, just let me find that jungle tape... [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:21, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

== 4.6x30mm ammunation ==
i don't know if anyone could even anwser this but either way, does anyone know the effectiveness of the 4.6mm round? i get that its made as a PDW and its proven to slice through kevlar body armor/helmets but how effective is it against a unarmored target compared to say a 9mm round? to me it just seems like its made to go through but not really go any dammage like a 5.56 or 7.62mm round would, thoughts? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:07, 4 January 2012 (CST)

Talk:Act of Valor

2012-01-04T05:33:41Z

Scarecrow: /* Live Fire */

Talk:Act of Valor

2012-01-04T05:33:28Z

Scarecrow: /* Live Fire */

Talk:Act of Valor

2012-01-04T05:32:34Z

Scarecrow: /* Live Fire */

Talk:Arma 2

2012-01-01T02:37:06Z

Scarecrow: /* SCAR-H? */

I just added alot of Pictures to the page. I know their not perfect but they are alot better than just a list of guns. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 04:31, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

May I post addon weapons? (Snakevenom56)

:I'd strongly advise against it. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 05:10, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

::Okay (Snakevenom56)

:::Meh? Why not?

::::Because: ''where would it end''? I'll just use ArmA's predecessor -- [[Operation Flashpoint]] -- as an example. There have been countless addon weapons released for that game, including many different versions of the same weapons, made by different authors at various levels of quality. Should I take screenshots of all of those addon weapons, including multiple examples of the same weapon by different authors, just because I can? No. It's just a massive waste of time and energy and it'll invariably end up being confusing and messy. Most of the game articles on this site are already on thin ice as it is, there's no reason to get ridiculous. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 19:10, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

:::::If someone really wants to screencap the weapons listed for this game though, it would be much appreciated. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 02:47, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

::::::I just thought it would be a okay idea, for those who are like "aw, no FAMAS" or "aw, the RPK-74 has a drum mag" and could see there are addons of the guns they may like and RPKs with the correct magazine (Snake)

:::::::Not that i disagree with the "no addon weapons" idea, but the content of the ACE-Mod is really high-quality and is at least on one level with the regular weapons, if not better. With the sheer amount of guns added by this, it would almost deserve an extra page (just like the Battlefield 2 Mod Project Reality has).

== Wrong SCARs ==
Why were example pics of the original first-gen SCARs used when the ones in-game are clearly the current third-gen SCARs? And the long-barreled SCAR-H referred to as an SSR isn't actually an SSR, it's a regular SCAR-H with a long barrel. The SSR has a longer forward receiver. [http://ext.pimg.tw/rick0708f828/4a05af70d7df3.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:00, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

==Eotech==

In a description, it says the EoTech model is a 552. I don't know what model it is, but it's way too short for a 552 12:13, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
:Could it be an EoTech 551? Also, sign your posts please. -Chris_Hun7er 12:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

The ones on the M4s look like 551s, while the ones on the SCARs look like 553s.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 13:49, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Correct. The EOTech on the M4 is a 551 and the one on the SCAR is a 553. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:00, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

== Operation Arrowhead ==
Shouldn't Operation Arrowhead have its own page? I believe it is a standalone mod. -Chris_Hun7er 06:32, 30 May 2010

:While it is a standalone mod, it still works with the original ArmA II. A second page for what is essentially the same game is not necessary. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] - 20:08, 17th of June, 2010

== unknown revolver ==

The unknown revolver in Operation Arrowhead looks like a Taurus Tracker, either a 617, 627 or 44 model. -Saberthechampion 10:30, 28 June 2010
:You're definitely right on the Taurus Tracker part. I looked into what model it was, and the only .45 ACP variant I could find was the Taurus Tracker Model 455, more commonly known as the Taurus Tracker .45 ACP, and is seemingly no longer produced. -Chris_Hun7er 20:32, 28 June 2010 (UTC).

==SCAR-H?==
Can anyone tell me why the sniper variant of the SCAR-H is listed under the sniper category when it's already in the assault/battle rifle category and why it's listed as the Mk.20 Mod 0? -Chris_Hun7er 02:40, 29 June 2010
:No idea, in game its known as a Mk17 Sniper (Suppressed) must be someone who edited the page and thinks adding a scope to a rifle makes it a 'sniper' [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 20:37, 31 December 2011 (CST)

==Lack of animation==
Anyone notice that most of the bolt action weapons are completely un-animated? I've only played the demo, but the M24 I used seemed devoid of animation.--[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 18:13, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, BIS basically said that they didn't work on animations because they weren't high priority and they devoted their time and work force to bug fixes, gameplay improvements, etc. At least the lack of animation doesn't detract from gameplay. -Chris_Hun7er 6:59, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
::Well, problem is that they didnt do a good job there either, ArmA II is still one of the buggiest games out there. And its not just the bolt actions that lack animation, every weapon lacks proper reload animations, the character only does some fumbling next to the gun and it magically loads itsself. Costs a good amount of atmosphere.

== British Army DLC announced ==

http://www.arma2.com/latest-news/british-armed-forces-deployed-in-takistan_en.html

On another topic, look at this picture. http://www.arma2.com/images/stories/armaBAFfeatures/Arma-BAF-banner.JPG
Is it just me, or is this L85 obviously a replica or some sort?

Well, as a main point it's an A1 model, so I'd say it most likely is. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

== PMC DLC Announced ==
Appears that there is going to be some new DLC featuring private military contractors wielding some new weapons like the AA-12. Check out the trailer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME99BuDmY8I&feature=player_embedded

==XM8==
The XM8 looks 2 me like the '''Compact''' version with an adjustable buttstock. It is too small to be the standard XM8. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 05:21, 12 April 2011 (CDT)
:What!? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:35, 1 July 2011 (CDT)
:You did notice, that there's just about every XM8-Variant in the game that exists, did you? [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 01:24, 1 July 2011 (CDT)
::Did you guys even look at the caps of the XM8 on the page? -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:56, 1 July 2011 (CDT)
:::Of course, and there's multiple variants. I don't see the problem. [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 02:13, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== SCAR-H Scope ==
Can anybody tell me, what type of optic is mounted on the Mk17 RCO Model? Pictures: http://imageshack.us/g/194/arma2oa2011070106425990.jpg/ [[User:Killerpixel|Killerpixel]] 23:56, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

It's an [http://www.elcansightingsystems.com/products/specter_sights.php Elcan Spectre]. I can't tell from looking whether it's the fixed 4x SpectreOS or the switchable 1-4x SpectreDR. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:24, 4 December 2011 (CST)

== M14 ACOG ==
Someone else seems to have recently added mention of a version of the M14 with an attached ACOG scope. Is that referring to a weapon in the base game? I've only seen M14's with anything other than the Aimpoint when running the ACE 2 mod. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] 23:19, 25 December 2011 (CST)
:Fixed. After checking it out, it seems that the vanilla version of ArmA:OA included a M14 model only with an Aimpoint. The ACOG version was added with ACE2 mod. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 00:59, 26 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Act of Valor

2011-12-25T06:41:04Z

Scarecrow: /* Unknown Sniper Rifle */

Talk:Act of Valor

2011-12-25T06:34:31Z

Scarecrow: /* Live Fire */

Talk:Act of Valor

2011-12-25T06:33:22Z

Scarecrow: /* Live Fire */

Talk:Act of Valor

2011-12-25T06:16:19Z

Scarecrow: /* Unknown Sniper Rifle */

Talk:Act of Valor

2011-12-24T06:04:18Z

Scarecrow: /* Unknown Sniper Rifle */

Talk:Act of Valor

2011-12-24T05:56:19Z

Scarecrow: /* Unknown Sniper Rifle */

Talk:The Incredible Hulk (2008)

2011-02-07T10:25:11Z

Scarecrow: /* Need M16 confirmation */

==Need M16 confirmation==

[[Image:Inc_hulk_m16_m4_1.jpg|thumb|none|800px|]]

Is the soldier on the left carrying an M16A2 or A4?
--[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 03:39, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
::From this shot it's almost impossible to tell. A hint is that the detachable carry handle tends to be squatter and flatter than the non-detachable one from the A2. But in this shot you can't tell. It's too non-distinct. [Edit] it only 'appears to be squatter and flatter, because the receiver body is raised by the lower portion of the removable carry handle. The 'hole' in the carry handle is definitely a different shape than that of a full, non-detachable carry handle, but the overall height on both rifles is the same. Just wanted to clarify that.
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[Image:M16A4Standard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A4 with carry handle attached and standard A2 handguards - 5.56x45mm]]
[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:42, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

The rocket launcher that no one knows about is a Nerf N-Strike Titan AS-V.1 with so slight changes but the grip is the exact same
:Really? they used a Nerf gun in a film!?![[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 10:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

==New screencaps==

I just got this movie on DVD. If nobody objects, I'd like to get rid of all the old screencaps and replace them with new ones as soon as I take them. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

Go ahead, I just got the DVD recently myself, and I was going to ask the same thing, but you got here first. Make sure you include that rocket launcher they tried to used on The Abomination when he first appeared, I'm not sure if it's a prop or an actual missle launcher, they have some good shots of it in the movie though.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

:I've been watching and screencapping for an hour now, and one thing that's becoming obvious to me (and which has been sorta obvious for a while) is that my new laptop's GPU is really not so great. The image quality of most of my screencaps has been disappointing. I screencapped ''[[New Jack City]]'' last weekend, and compared the images I took on my current laptop to some screencaps which I took on my older laptop for another site a few years ago. Even though my old laptop is now 4 years old, it appears to produce better screencaps than my CURRENT laptop!

:So if you want to take a few shots and compare them to mine so that we can see whose are better, it wouldn't be a bad idea. I want IMFDB to have the best quality images possible. If your computer produces better ones than mine and you want to put yours up, so be it. -MT2008

Here's two I took from the Campus fight, what do you think?:

[[Image:TIH_M2.jpg|400px|none|]]
[[Image:TIH_M4.jpg|400px|none|]]

:Here are two of mine:

[[Image:Vlcsnap-147092.jpg|400px|none|]]
[[Image:Vlcsnap-186729.png|400px|none|]]

:As you can see, the first one in JPEG isn't so great. I started taking some in PNG (the second one), which looks better, I guess. One thing I'd recommend - adjust the aspect ratio on yours so that the image isn't distorted. Like, I should probably edit mine to ditch those black bars. -MT2008

I'm not really sure how to adjust the Aspect ratio, I have a Pan & Scan thing, but I tried that once, and it looked awful. I use CyberLink PowerDVD for my Screencaps, I noticed one time when I took a screencap for Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, they appear to be slightly stretched, so it looks like you win. As for the black bars, whenever I do a widescreen movie, I just crop out the bars, if you like I could take them out of your screenshots and reupload them.

:I dunno, it's just that a lot of the shots you've taken in the past are really good quality. If you figure it out, yours might be far superior to mine, in which case, I'd rather have yours. Not sure how CyperLink works (I don't use it myself), but is there a video option? Aspect Ratio is usually under that menu.

:I'll crop out the bars, shouldn't be a problem.-MT2008

: I also have it, I bought it the first day but I already had two movies saved in full and didn't need anymore work. If anyone needs extra shots let me know. -GM

The stretch thing isn't anything really noticeable, you need the movie and the screencap side by side to notice anything. I can't seem seem to find anything that says video at all, I can zoom it in and stretch it to fit the monitor, but that will just lower the quality of the screenshots. Anyway, do you want dibbs on the page, or would you like me to upload some of my own?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

: Well, for now, I will do it, unless you really want to instead. But if not, I do give you free reign to supplement my shots with any of your own that you feel are superior or necessary. -MT2008

I will upload extra shots shots when your done, you know that rocket launcher they attempt to use on The Abomination? Well, if it's okay with you, I would like to include a shot of The Abomination catching the rocket out of the air.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:32, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

==Al Vrkljan==
I was never lucky enough to catch a convo with this guy before he seemed to have left the site. Question, how do you pronounce his last name? -GM

:Beats me. Hopefully he'll be back, because his company has worked on a lot of productions done in Canada, so he could probably answer lots of questions about guns in some of his movies. -MT2008

==Does anyone know what these are?==

Take a look at this image of Al with the G36C and note the thing on the rear part of the receiver that flashes green and red:

[[Image:TIH 11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Any idea what this thing is? All of the commandos seem to have them on their weapons. I've never seen anything like it.
::::It's a radiation sensor to track Banner.[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
: They probably have something to do with the tranquilizer system.
::All I know is that they flash and beep just before they enter the room.
:::Maybe they measure gamma levels, so they can find Banner easier. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==M&P==
Why is Banner's old style revolver called an M&P? It's not an a M&P. the ejector rod looks like a plain jane Model 10. The M&P had that ejector rod notch cut into the ejector shroud/barrel which added onto the production time and ended costing more due to manhours. The gun that Banner has is a straight line ejector rod model, which makes it a standard Model 10. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

== Grenade Launcher ==

I don't have this film on DVD so can't check myself, but at any point do you actually see the chambers cycle? The reason I ask is that I think that these may actually be cosmetic, and the whole gun is mocked up from a single shot launcher. As far as I can see there are 4 reasons this cannot be a DefTech 37mm MGL. 1: The chambers are too short, although this could mean the 40mm version but I doubt it. 2: In the first and 3rd screenshots you can see that it has an external hammer and the angle of the back of the receiver is too severe. 3: The position of the pistol grip relative to the back of the receiver is wrong when you compare it to the DefTech MGL. 4: Most importantly, you can see that in the last screenshot, the circular bulge that is the actual chamber of the weapon is visible, behind the cosmetic rotating chambers.

I believe that it is actually the [[S&W gas gun|Def Tech 1315]] pictured below, with either an older, after market or modified stock, with cosmetic chambers and RIS. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:58, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

[[Image:DefTech1315.jpg|thumb|500px|none|DefTech 1315 - 37mm]]

Talk:The Incredible Hulk (2008)

2011-02-07T10:24:25Z

Scarecrow: /* Need M16 confirmation */

==Need M16 confirmation==

[[Image:Inc_hulk_m16_m4_1.jpg|thumb|none|800px|]]

Is the soldier on the left carrying an M16A2 or A4?
--[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 03:39, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
::From this shot it's almost impossible to tell. A hint is that the detachable carry handle tends to be squatter and flatter than the non-detachable one from the A2. But in this shot you can't tell. It's too non-distinct. [Edit] it only 'appears to be squatter and flatter, because the receiver body is raised by the lower portion of the removable carry handle. The 'hole' in the carry handle is definitely a different shape than that of a full, non-detachable carry handle, but the overall height on both rifles is the same. Just wanted to clarify that.
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[Image:M16A4Standard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A4 with carry handle attached and standard A2 handguards - 5.56x45mm]]
[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:42, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

The rocket launcher that no one knows about is a Nerf N-Strike Titan AS-V.1 with so slight changes but the grip is the exact same
:Really? they used a Nerf gun in a film!?!

==New screencaps==

I just got this movie on DVD. If nobody objects, I'd like to get rid of all the old screencaps and replace them with new ones as soon as I take them. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

Go ahead, I just got the DVD recently myself, and I was going to ask the same thing, but you got here first. Make sure you include that rocket launcher they tried to used on The Abomination when he first appeared, I'm not sure if it's a prop or an actual missle launcher, they have some good shots of it in the movie though.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

:I've been watching and screencapping for an hour now, and one thing that's becoming obvious to me (and which has been sorta obvious for a while) is that my new laptop's GPU is really not so great. The image quality of most of my screencaps has been disappointing. I screencapped ''[[New Jack City]]'' last weekend, and compared the images I took on my current laptop to some screencaps which I took on my older laptop for another site a few years ago. Even though my old laptop is now 4 years old, it appears to produce better screencaps than my CURRENT laptop!

:So if you want to take a few shots and compare them to mine so that we can see whose are better, it wouldn't be a bad idea. I want IMFDB to have the best quality images possible. If your computer produces better ones than mine and you want to put yours up, so be it. -MT2008

Here's two I took from the Campus fight, what do you think?:

[[Image:TIH_M2.jpg|400px|none|]]
[[Image:TIH_M4.jpg|400px|none|]]

:Here are two of mine:

[[Image:Vlcsnap-147092.jpg|400px|none|]]
[[Image:Vlcsnap-186729.png|400px|none|]]

:As you can see, the first one in JPEG isn't so great. I started taking some in PNG (the second one), which looks better, I guess. One thing I'd recommend - adjust the aspect ratio on yours so that the image isn't distorted. Like, I should probably edit mine to ditch those black bars. -MT2008

I'm not really sure how to adjust the Aspect ratio, I have a Pan & Scan thing, but I tried that once, and it looked awful. I use CyberLink PowerDVD for my Screencaps, I noticed one time when I took a screencap for Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, they appear to be slightly stretched, so it looks like you win. As for the black bars, whenever I do a widescreen movie, I just crop out the bars, if you like I could take them out of your screenshots and reupload them.

:I dunno, it's just that a lot of the shots you've taken in the past are really good quality. If you figure it out, yours might be far superior to mine, in which case, I'd rather have yours. Not sure how CyperLink works (I don't use it myself), but is there a video option? Aspect Ratio is usually under that menu.

:I'll crop out the bars, shouldn't be a problem.-MT2008

: I also have it, I bought it the first day but I already had two movies saved in full and didn't need anymore work. If anyone needs extra shots let me know. -GM

The stretch thing isn't anything really noticeable, you need the movie and the screencap side by side to notice anything. I can't seem seem to find anything that says video at all, I can zoom it in and stretch it to fit the monitor, but that will just lower the quality of the screenshots. Anyway, do you want dibbs on the page, or would you like me to upload some of my own?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

: Well, for now, I will do it, unless you really want to instead. But if not, I do give you free reign to supplement my shots with any of your own that you feel are superior or necessary. -MT2008

I will upload extra shots shots when your done, you know that rocket launcher they attempt to use on The Abomination? Well, if it's okay with you, I would like to include a shot of The Abomination catching the rocket out of the air.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:32, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

==Al Vrkljan==
I was never lucky enough to catch a convo with this guy before he seemed to have left the site. Question, how do you pronounce his last name? -GM

:Beats me. Hopefully he'll be back, because his company has worked on a lot of productions done in Canada, so he could probably answer lots of questions about guns in some of his movies. -MT2008

==Does anyone know what these are?==

Take a look at this image of Al with the G36C and note the thing on the rear part of the receiver that flashes green and red:

[[Image:TIH 11.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Any idea what this thing is? All of the commandos seem to have them on their weapons. I've never seen anything like it.
::::It's a radiation sensor to track Banner.[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
: They probably have something to do with the tranquilizer system.
::All I know is that they flash and beep just before they enter the room.
:::Maybe they measure gamma levels, so they can find Banner easier. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==M&P==
Why is Banner's old style revolver called an M&P? It's not an a M&P. the ejector rod looks like a plain jane Model 10. The M&P had that ejector rod notch cut into the ejector shroud/barrel which added onto the production time and ended costing more due to manhours. The gun that Banner has is a straight line ejector rod model, which makes it a standard Model 10. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

== Grenade Launcher ==

I don't have this film on DVD so can't check myself, but at any point do you actually see the chambers cycle? The reason I ask is that I think that these may actually be cosmetic, and the whole gun is mocked up from a single shot launcher. As far as I can see there are 4 reasons this cannot be a DefTech 37mm MGL. 1: The chambers are too short, although this could mean the 40mm version but I doubt it. 2: In the first and 3rd screenshots you can see that it has an external hammer and the angle of the back of the receiver is too severe. 3: The position of the pistol grip relative to the back of the receiver is wrong when you compare it to the DefTech MGL. 4: Most importantly, you can see that in the last screenshot, the circular bulge that is the actual chamber of the weapon is visible, behind the cosmetic rotating chambers.

I believe that it is actually the [[S&W gas gun|Def Tech 1315]] pictured below, with either an older, after market or modified stock, with cosmetic chambers and RIS. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:58, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

[[Image:DefTech1315.jpg|thumb|500px|none|DefTech 1315 - 37mm]]

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2011-02-05T09:44:53Z

Scarecrow: /* You know... */

= Wonder Weapons and Miscellaneous Weapons =

== Ray Gun ==

The Ray Gun is available in Call of Duty: Black Ops, only in the Nazi Zombies game mode. While still being very powerful, the gun has a tendency to make crawlers on later rounds more often. Although this can be very useful, it can also create problems for the player, as the player may be caught unaware by them.

[[Image:446px-BORayGun.png|thumb|none|400px|The Ray Gun in-game.]]

== Wunderwaffe DG-2 ==

The Wunderwaffe only appears in Shi No Numa and Der Riese as part of the hardened and prestige editions. In the new maps, the weapon is replaced by its spiritual successor, the Thundergun. When Pack-a-Punched in Der Riese it becomes gold-plated. In one of the intel pieces, a group of wunderwaffe projects are referred to. One of the projects listed is the Die Glocke.

[[Image:Wunderwaffe_DG-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Wunderwaffe DG-2 in-game.]]

== Thundergun ==

This is a weapon featured in the level Kino der Toten. It pushes back zombies with such force that it kills them and should be used only to push back zombies if the player(s) are crowded and cornered considering its low ammunition it starts out with. It becomes the "Zeus Cannon" when upgraded. It also appears in as a easter egg in the Call of Duty: Black Ops campaign level Numbers. It is strongly hinted that it was created by Dr. Maxis.

[[Image:621px-Thundergun.png|thumb|none|400px|The Thundergun in-game.]]

== Winter's Howl ==

This weapon is featured in "Five" and Zombie Verruckt, but only in Call of Duty Black Ops. It is able to freeze zombies on impact, lowering their health drastically. In later rounds, it seems to make zombies health go down and takes a couple of seconds to freeze. It has a 6 round magazine and 24 shots in reserve. When pack-a-punched, it becomes Winter's Fury, and has a 9 round magazine and 36 shots in reserve. Frozen zombies have ice surrounding them. It is currently unknown who created it, but it is possible that the Americans created it because of where you find it (the Pentagon).

[[Image:WintersHowl.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Winter's Howl in-game.]]

== SOG Knife ==
The SOG Knife is a special knife used by the player (as Alex Mason) in the mission "Victor Charlie". This is the only time the SOG Knife is in use.
Gunner 313
[[Image:Shot0159.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SOG Knife in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0167.jpg|thumb|none|600px|SOG Knife been drawn.]]

== Tomahawk ==
The Tomahawk axe is a melee weapon that replaces the throwing knife (or tactical knife) from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'' in mutliplayer. In single-player, it's only available on the mission "Rebirth" after obtaining it from a Russian harbor worker and killing him with it.
[[Image:Tomahawk-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Tomahawk in Create-a-Class.]]
[[Image:Tomahawk-BOthrow.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Tomahawk being thrown.]]

== Ballistic Knife ==
The ballistic knife is a powerful melee weapon that available only in multiplayer and zombie modes. The knife is firing blades with a spring inside the body. In real life, this knife is used by Russian special forces units like Spetsnaz.
[[Image:BK-BO.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The ballistic knife being reloaded.]]

== Crossbow ==

The Crossbow is a new weapon that featured in ''Call of Duty: Black Ops''. It is speculated to fulfill the role of a quiet, long range weapon. The crossbow appears in the campaign missions "Executive Order" and "WMD", which are set in Baikonur and the Ural Mountains, respectively. In multiplayer, crossbows only fire explosive bolts; in singleplayer, they can also fire normal bolts. Crossbows in singleplayer also often have scopes attached.

[[Image:Shot0205.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Crossbow in idle.]]

[[Image:Shot0206.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Crossbow in reloading.]]

== Flamethrower ==

A flamethrower of unknown model has been confirmed to be in Call of Duty: Black Ops as found in the "GKnova6 document" which can be found here: [http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr135/priceman14/doc10.jpg]
The document only refers to it as "Improvised Weaponry" in "Phase 1 Testing" with most of the other information redacted.

Another model appears as an underbarrel attachment.

The image used by www.codblackopsblog.com
[http://www.codblackopsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Black-Ops-Weapons-Flamethrower.jpg]

Reference image of Flamethrowers in Call of Duty: World at War, a past Treyarch game that featured flamethrowers. Image from www.gameinformer.com
[http://blog.al.com/techcetera/2008/12/Pelilucodwaw.jpg]

[[Image:PSG1pic.JPG|thumb|none|500px|Flamethrower mounted on FAMAS F2 FELIN. ''Note ankward M16 handguard'']]

== Main Knife ==

The knife returns in Call of Duty: Black Ops. It is still a one-hit kill, but unlike the previous versions, seems to cause a very large fountain of blood to appear after knifing an enemy.

[[Image:659px-KnifeBlackOpsMultiplayer.png|thumb|none|500px|The Main Knife in-game.]]

Looks a bit like Rambo's knife from First Blood Part 2. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:12, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Prison Knife ==

The Prison Knife is a melee weapon used in the mission "Vorkuta" in Call of Duty: Black Ops. It appears to be a jagged piece of scrap metal, similar to a 'shank' or 'shiv'. After Mason acquires another weapon, the prison knife is no longer equipped, and is only used by pressing the melee button. You can see blood on the blade, probably from stabbing the prison guard. Upon closer expection though, I found out it is just a piece of glass with black tape around the handle.

[[Image:624px-Prisonknife.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The Prison Knife in-game.]]

== Karambit Knife ==

The Karambit Knife is a combat knife used in the Call of Duty: Black Ops mission Executive Order. It is used to kill a Russian soldier by sticking it into the soldier's spinal cord, killing him, allowing the player and Frank Woods to take their uniform and infiltrate the launch site. Though this blade is used only by US Federal Air Marshals currently, Mason and Woods could have used it instead of a normal blade to aid in the purpose of the mission. Unlike a normal blade, it is shaped like a jungle cat's claw.

[[Image:561px-Karambit_Knife.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Karambit Knife in-game.]]

== Bowie Knife ==

The Bowie Knife is a special melee weapon which can be bought for 3000 points in Der Riese, Kino der Toten and Five. It is larger and wider than the standard combat knife in Call of Duty: Black Ops (or any Call of Duty game for that matter). It increases Knife damage from 150 to 1150, making it a one-hit-kill for zombies from Round 1 to Round 11. It is a one-hit-kill to Hellhounds all the way up until the third hellround.

[[Image:BowieKnifePolkCompetition2-1024.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The Bowie Knife in Real Life.]]

[[Image:Bowie.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Bowie Knife in-game.]]

=Discussion=
This game has a cold war look to it

==AK74u==

In game, it is a ak74u, not an aks74u. U=carbine S=folding stock.
The in game models are all mssing stocks, so are only an ak74u, as they are called in game. It should be noted as such, im sick of having to re change the main page and want to get this cleared up/

I don't care if there's no stock, there's no such designation as "AK-74u". Also, try unlocking the "grip" attachment for it. That adds the stock back on. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

AK74 is base model, u means shortened, s means folding stock, etc. So chopping stock off makes it a 74u

I am fully aware of what the designations mean. Find me an actual AK-74 carbine produced from the factory without the side-folder and actually labelled "AK-74u" (cannot be simply an AKS-74U with the stock detached), and I'll gladly change it back. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:16, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

It doesnt matter how it left the factory, it matters how you modify it. If you put a 4.25 inch barrel and slide on a full sized 1911 do you call it a government model or a commander? I mean its a commander model but left the factory a government.....

This isn't the Call of Duty Wiki, kid. We don't promote misinformation as fact like they do there. We refer to and classify firearms as they are in the ''real'' world, not the ''game'' world. That means referring to it by its ''actual'' name (AKS-74U, not AK-74U) and classification (carbine, not SMG). It doesn't matter what it's called in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Im trying to put the corerect designation, maybe even note there is a ak74 u and a aks74u, remember that we cant say a gun has a folding stock if it has NO stock. a 7.5 inch barreled ar with a stock is a carbine, taking the stock of its an ar pistol, not a ar stockless rifle.

But "AK-74U" is ''not'' the correct designation. Look at the [[I Am Legend]] page and you'll note that even though Will Smith's AR is modified to appear as an M4A1 in the movie, we still classify it based on what it ''came out of the factory as'', a Colt Law Enforcement Carbine. Also not that the most recent AK iterations as well as the AN-94 all have side-folding stocks, yet no "S" in their designations. Your AR "pistol" comparison also has no validity in that those so-called "pistols" all fire the same full-sized .223 cal./5.56mm ammunition and as such are pistols ''in name only''. So like HashiriyaR32 said, unless you can provide proof of an actual real life AK-74 carbine ''factory-produced'' without a folding stock and bearing the in-game designation, it stays AKS-74U. You're in the domain of the "gun nerds" and real life fact takes priority over in-game fiction. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I've got to say I totally back Spartan. There isnt such a designation as the AK-74U, and while the 'S' does signify the side folding stock, if you took an AKS-74 and removed the stock, would you call it a regular AK-74? [[User:Chablar|Chablar]]

==Accuracy of Game==
I have Black Ops and have beaten the campaign, while the missions range from 1961 to 1968 the game is LOADED with anachronisms, im not sure an alternate reality would explain for having FAMAS F1s ( ''In fact, FELIN´s'' --[[User:Werc|Werc]]) and AUG A1s in the 1960s. Also they have the M16 in Vietnam with a so-called Masterkey system on it, im not sure that they had Masterkeys in Vietnam but it looks to be an Ithaca 37 stakeout attatched to the M16, also nearly ALL of the NVA soldiers are armed with SPAS-12 which is completely wierd. Any comments from people who have played the game?
: Yeah, you are right. If this game would be atleast fun. But its boring, MP is even worse than in MW2 ( ''And MW2 had worst MP of all'' ''times'' ), SP is boring like hell. There is nothin such as AI. Storyline is boring an unoriginal. Weapons are both anachronistic and unrealistic. Nothing like kicback even on Mosin Nagant ? '''THIS GAME SUCKS, just like MW2 did''' --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Do you get a nickel from EA every time you rag on the game? And there are many things I can say about the story, but "unoriginal" is not one of them. I have yet to play another FPS where the player is mentally ill and one of the main characters is merely a hallucination. (Unless there's an "A Beautiful Mind" FPS I don't know about.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

well i enjoyed it , and if i tape a shotgun under the barrel of my M16 why cant i call it a masterkey . simmons 8492

I know that most of the weapons in the game are anachronistic and that's a little bit sad for a cold war game, but a lot of those firearms are never seen in video games, that's one thing that made me like it. Perhaps,I enjoyed the stroryline from the begining to the end, I love the Zombie mode and the multiplayer is great (at least when I play with my friends). --[[User:VillageFroid|VillageFroid]] 19:19, November 11 2010 (UTC)
:If you guys are wondering, the Masterkey was invented around the 1980s and 1990s so it's anachronistic for it to be there. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:27, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)
::::: "Sklopnyj" - from what language is this word? In Russian is no such word. At least I have in 41 years that have not heard:) In Russian "foldable" sounds - "Skladnoy". But also begins with the letter S.[[User:Slow Rider|Slow Rider]] 21:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

It's an Intermediate rifle, like the P90 or MP7A1, slightly smaller caliber but with an effective range between a rifle's range and a sub gun's range.
:No, that is an incorrect comparison. The AK-74U is just a compact rifle since it fires an assault rifle round, not an assault rifle "styled" rifle. The P90 and the MP7 are designed from the ground up to be PDWs that fired ammo that are necked down rifle rounds instead of pistol rounds designed with the same armor piercing power as the full size rifle. It's like the Colt Model 733 or the 933 or any of the other shorten assault rifle variants. A submachine gun is always compared to weapons that fire pistol caliber ammo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

But weapons like the SAM-R use the same caliber as 933 and 733, 5.56x45, and the SAM-R is used as a DMR. i doubt the 5.45x39 could be a marksman rifle cartridge. even though its longer than the 5.7 or 4.6, its range and accuracy are not that of a true assault rifle.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==
Hey guys, Zombie mode on Black Ops includes 2 maps, each bringing there own unique cast of characters
-Kind Der Untoten-
-All classic Nazi Zombies Characters

-Five-
-Fidel Castro (Holding Colt Python)
-John F. Kennedy (Holding China Lake Launcher)
-Richard Nixon
-Robert McNamara
These maps i have not played that much but from what i have there are these weapons
-Kind Der Untoten-
-Olympia (Over & Under)
-Walther MPL
-PM-63
-MP-40
-Mystery Box (Any number of assorted weapons)

-Five-
-Olympia
-Walther MPL

-will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

its been confermed . for news hit up black ops 24/7 . they dont have 100 percent accurate weapons lists but its the best site out there

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, the SKS, Norinco Type 54, M1 Carbine, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

::The AR-10 & AR-18 rifles instead of the G11,the Beretta PM12 instead of the Spectre, and the Steyr Mpi69 and the Sterling SMG (silenced /standard).Also a Starlight scope.--Kz77 9:24, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''
Lee Enfield SMLE/ Jungle Carbine, M1 carbine, M2 carbine, SKS, Webley, Skorpion, M1 grand, RPG-2[[User:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

if anything there going to have those guns , and ruinthem buy adding rails and underbarell shit.simmons8492

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.
Some people are still saying it could be WASR-2. It's not a WASR-2. WASR-2's are new production (within the past few years) rifles from Romania made ONLY for semi-automatic use and for importation into the US. There's no way on God's green earth that the rifle in game is a WASR-2.

More than likely this is just an AK-47 with an incorrectly modeled mag. They ARE modeling these things after airsoft guns ya know.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

im not sure but with those ironsites id say a g36 . i hope they brink the one from COD4 back i loved it. simmons 8492

In black ops there appears also a weapon that an elicoptero is in use for throwing .. it appears in the game in the level 2 as harpoon
[[Image:Harpoon.jgp]]

Unidentified gun No.4 looks like a Galil.---Matchgradeweapon

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

well am i the only one who thinks WAW did a horible job of represting the stoping power of the .45 . i mean the gun does nothing in the game , but in real life its a man stoper. simmons 8492

Game balance. That's why [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

i under stand but the walther is better in that game than the 1911. at least the .45 in COD4 had some good stopingpower to it . i know its a diffrent model but still . simmons 8492

and lucky for me , the boys at trayarc made the M1911A1 the manstoper that it is .SEMPER FI!!! simmons 8492

one thing i noticed is that some times the player racks the slide and it stays back like its empty . i dont get it. simmons 8492

Its a useless flair that can be done with a real gun by pushing up on the Slide release as you pull it back and then release it after its locked. I did it on my Hi Power after seeing it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:30, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

well the ak-74 would be good , but no one would notice the difference. most kids playing this game dont know am1911a1 from a m14 . id like to see both

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

a littel of topic but, that guy has one of the shitties grips that i have ever seen

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

i dont think he has the globe and anchor tat , but because of him im going to grow a mullet and wear a head band shhhing people. simmons8492

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

youd be suprised what i can do with one hand. simmond 8492

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Grenade launchers are balanced, mininum detonation range, slow reload, not very accurate (need to arc) only 2 rounds, and besides, use it to take down campers.

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

Yes. Confermed on callofduty.com

as lon as he goes all predator on some one like in wold at war , im fine with in, and being as that hes a soviet why is he with the us? defector or what? simmons 8492

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Not to mention it's impossible to actually fire one with live rounds. -Mandaloin

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

just for that tom jane is going to kill you with a bow and arrow. good job . and the balistic knive uses high tention (missspeled) springs, so id call it a projectial if anything. not to mension that , if you look at the rock on this site , it has the little dart shot gun that nick cage uses in the begining. simmons 8492

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it's made by Heckler and Koch judging by the stock.But that's just me.It could be and AUG prototype but who knows?---Matchgradeweapon

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

first , i had a kid tell me that the moddel 1887 is a rifel , based only on the fact that it has a lever and not a pump. i own no guns and also only pop on this site to win bets with my brother but i know that. but dose any one know if the m16 or famas have selector switches that can be changed?

Yes they do. The FAMAS can shoot on semi auto, and the M16a4 also has semi auto.[[user:Greywolverene|Greywolverene]]

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Just pitching in here but isnt the Galil what the israelis made as an improved AK-47 ? I think i heard that on the millitary channel or something (btw the price for the WA2000 these days is minimum 40 000 $ THE 2ND VERSION IS MIN 75 000 $ there was only 176 built (thank you wikipedia)--[[User:Patrickgt|℗Λ✝r][©Κ]] 04:29, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:While looking at the Create-a-class 2.0 vid shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCzSImy-xm4, I found it rather odd for the choice that Treyarch was going with on the weapon selection for the pistols at the 0:23 mark. Wouldn't it make more sense to place the Makarov PM as the starting pistol because of it's weak 9x18mm cartridge? I'd personally would have liked to see it like this:

*Makarov PM
*ASP
*1911
*Colt Python
*CZ75

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:52, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

. reality and videogames are like an amish hacker , never gonna happen . this is going to be FUCKIN EPIC . simmons 8492

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

it looks like famas had a field day and fucked everything up . the pig dosent deserve that . and for all the idiots out there reading this and thinking"whats the pig, can you use farm animals as weapona" the pig is the name for the m60 , that gun hold a special place in my heart . simmons 8492

It really looks like they just took a lot of stuff from mw2 (like those god damned iron sights) and whats the deal putting Troy industries sight on an AUG? How stupid does that even look, couldnt hit shit in real life cuz there is no spacing between the front and rear post! Come on Treyarch i tough u could do better --[[User:Patrickgt|℗Λ✝r][©Κ]] 02:45, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/FAMAS_Felin_501556_fh000002.jpg [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

in the same video they show parts froma game called "gun game " the player swaps the M14 for the m136 . im gonna go all jessie ventura up in that bitch . simmons 8492

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::The guns don't make sense at all, not just because of the era. I mean flamethrower attachments, handheld miniguns, the same rear sight on many guns, 20-round mags holding 30 rounds, semi-auto shotguns impossibly cycling with dragonsbreath ammo. Before MW2 the Call of Duty series was known for its accuracy and attention to how the guns really work, as well as the weapons for the time periods the games take place in. And GunGunGun has a point, it's just going to be the same chaotic multiplayer as MW2, a bunch of stoners and kids making themselves feel better by corner camping, tubing, and quickscoping. Treyarch only seems to have done things to promote those playing techniques, not discourage them like they should. -Mandaloin
::: Cry some more then? It's pretty obvious that you don't like the gameplay style. There are many, MANY gamers out there that would disagree with your tastes, and those are the ones that Treyarch is aiming to please (along with those on the fence over some of MW2s perks/killstreaks which were changed for the better). So what if it's not all realistic, the key point in a video game is if it's any fun to play or not. Last I checked, I couldn't actually survive crashing a Ferrari at 100MPh at Laguna Seca either, but it is sure as hell fun to play a game that allows me to get back up and try again without it being "game over" for me. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Meh, quit complaining, it's a video game. If you want realism go play ARMA or Operation Flashpoint. It does look better than MW2, that I will say. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I just love how people can criticize a game, when yet, they haven't even played it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 21:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:I just love how people keep saying that. We don't have to play it to criticize what we've already seen of it. -Mandaloin
:: Yeah, you kinda do. If you have not actually sat down and played this game, you're only assuming it's gonna be bad by just looking at it. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Medal of Honor pwns Call of Duty in every way. ''That's'' my opinion of Black Ops. Anyone who doesn't like it can go cry a river. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg
:Nice find, I agree. Wow, they must've dug pretty deep. I don't see how it'd be possible for this to be a modeling mistake, as I would think it's much harder to find one of these than an MPL. The above link doesn't work, here it is again. [http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg04-e.htm] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well whatdaya know, the one I missed. Good find. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

They are Skorpians in 9x18mm without the stocks. Looks awesome to me.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

: We've already seen what the Skorpions look like, these look alot like that OTs-02 Kiparis --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 00:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:I presume the KS-23 is likely to have heavy recoil, small capacity (3 rounds) and a delay between shots. Also can't the KS-23 also function as a Grenade launcher as well firing firing a variety of shells such as Tear Gass, Flash Bang and White Phosphorous? I would marry Treyarch if they finally added Slugs to this baby! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Draco i think your my new friend. JK. i always wondered why they never put chokes or slugs as attachments for guns in video games.-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

::They have added slugs to some games. But to name few, Bad Company 2, Fallout: New Vegas and STALKER are one's that come to mind, though I don't think even the majority of game designers (save for a small collection of the minority) that know what a Choke on a shotgun even is. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

English version of Wikipedia erroneously indicates that the KS-23 was created in 1970. This weapon was created in mid-1980's. Rifled barrel has been borrowed from anti-aircraft weapons systems. English version of Wikipedia erroneously indicates that the KS-23 was created in 1970. This weapon was created in mid-1980's. The 23 mm rifled barrel has been borrowed from anti-aircraft weapons systems. At present it is not used Russian police, because it is too heavy and uncomfortable [[User:Slow Rider|Slow Rider]] 11:12, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a AR-18 but don't we have the full assault rifle list?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: It's not an AR-18, the recievers don't match. It looks more like the 63, although it doesn't appear to have the ventilated barrel housing. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

After actually looking at a 63, this gun looks like it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Stoner63-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stoner 63 in rifle and LMG configuration.]]
[[Image:COD7Stonerpossible.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's a screencap from gameplay footage of the possible Stoner 63. Compared to the stock image I'd say it is.]] . - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Reflex sights==
Just wondering about the reflex sights, were they even developed back during the periods the game is set in? Another thing I was curious about is that the M4 Spectre in the list shows it having a reflex mounted on it. While it is using a side-mount, wouldn't the stock get in the way if you try to fold/unfold it since it folds to the top of the gun?--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
: '''1,''' Yeah, i am almost sure reflex sight existed during cold war. There is even patent on internet, dating it into seventies.
: '''2,''' All SMG´s have apparently stocks removed for some reason. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Not exactly on topic==
Alright, I am having a pretty bad day with dealing all the crap my professors are throwing at me and then my roommate says something that is kinda pissing me off so I am gonna rant a little bit. Last night(this early morning actually, around 1), he decided not to do his homework and decided to watch a show about snipers and the amazing feats they pulled off including one about Hatchcock. It was pretty interesting until he ruined it after watching a sniper take out VietCongs using kentucky windage with his scoped (now busted) m14 after his helo was shot down by saying, "So what, I don't see how that is impressive, I can do that all the time in Modern Warfare 2." Now he wants to go buy Black Ops when it comes out because he wants to "pwn some noobs" and all the feature look really realistic just like in MW2. He goes on to say that he wants to become a Ranger because he thinks it is easy enough since he is smart since he was on a debate team, ran for state assembly, etc. and strong because he can do MMA and finishes that with he can drink a lot beer. I give him credit for having the balls to join the Rangers but at the same time, it feels like he is insulting them. Sorry for writing all this but I was having a shitty day and just had to let is all out and I figured it since he was talking of COD, that I would put it here. Alright, rant over, feeling much better now. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 15:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy, is actual real military service gonna shit on his cereal, lets see just how easy pwning noobs is when your actually getting shot at, oh and apparently theres this thing called recoil in reality, suprising i know. Oh and no respawns either. On an actual related note this game is gonna suck, I do love the return of the 1911 to COD i just can forgive the erronious amounts of just horrendous anacronisms, and the flamethrower undermount is so retarded --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's a fun idea, hand a CoD fanboy an AR-15 with the bolt locked back, hand them a magazine, and tell them to fire it. See how long it takes them to realize that the weapon isn't magically ready to fire just because you slap in a fresh magazine. You get five points for every ten seconds it takes before they realize what the bolt catch is. You get bonus points if they pull the charging handle.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 06:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Oh and pop that elusive saftey on too, just for good measure.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 09:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be impressed if they would give the back stock a flat slap after loading a fresh mag and charged the gun like a real badass.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Even better would be actually getting through the first phase of basic to even hold a weapon.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be even more surprised to find a gamer doing a proper tactical reload, instead of letting a mag drop to the ground and becoming confused as to why it doesn't magically appear back in his pouches.

first of id slap the shit out of your roommate , the second he hit basic hes gonna be crying for mommy shitting him self , and i cant wait for the m1911 to make its return .simmons 8492

==Kinda liking the weapons list==

Well, they are things you never see in other games, although the awp and famas and spas12 can go, and id love the a1 to be full auto. But, a revovler that makes sense, old school submachine guns, a pump action grenade launcher its kind of cool.

I do wish they didn't decided the nearly the same weapons from the other MW series like the AUG, SPAS-12, or the MP5K. They could have picked other pump action shotguns like the Remington 870, or another weapon aside from the MP5K. They should have stuck with the full size MP5. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do have the Ithaca 37. And at least the AUG is a rifle and not a LMG in this one. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I do know most of these guns really shouldn't exist but you can believe I will have a ton of fun with the under-barrel flamethrower with a smily face reflex sight on the G11(they better not mess up the G11).--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

At this moment, I am not bothered about weapons that don't exist at the time, but more on original choices. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda of agree with you there, sorta disappointed though that they made the M16A1 burst fire in Multiplayer. Though it's hard to say exactly when all these guns appear, while yes we were told it was starting in Vietnam but IT could possibly star in other timezones too. From what I've gathered, you play as multiple characters so it's possible you could play as multiple characters in different time periods, 1 in Vietnam, another in Cold War and maybe a few fictional war zones in the early 2000's [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, it seems that original M16 without forward assist is in game. Anyway - As far as i know M16A1 fired in 3-round bursts, no ?
:::The A1 is full-auto. The A2 and A4 variants fire bursts. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 10:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I dont like how they use the correct 20 round mag model but make it hold 30. Hopefully the burst/30 rounds is online only, like in cod 4 where the m16 was full auto SP but burst MP.

== CZ75 ==

JUst curious, does anyone think that the CZ-75 might be the Automatic version of the weapon. Granted Treyarch wasn't going to add Machine Pistols but since it's the last handgun in the list and it costs 750 credits would it be possible? I mean Bad Company 2 had their 93R as their last unlock which was a machine pistol [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:28, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well, it doesnt have to be automatic. CZ-75 is superior to all other handguns from list in real life.( maybe besides Colt Python ) - Its better than Makarov, ASP and even M1911 in all "stats" . Its probably best 9mm handgun.

::Not too sure as to how it would be better than a .45 caliber 1911. I can see it being better than the ASP or Makarov due to their small magazines of 7-8 rounds compared to the 75's 16 (9mm). Of course it does open the slight possibility that an Automatic conversion kit is available as an attachment [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Its not just about calibre or mag capacity. CZ-75 is more accurate, bullet is faster and i think its lighter. Anyway - Its sure that heavier cartrigde is allways better :) But i would take CZ75 to combat instead of M1911.

:Maybe the developers just read a lot of Gunsmith Cats, and took Rally's speech to heart, but the possibility that it may be an automatic makes me sigh. I hope it isn't.-protoAuthor 16:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, The CZ-75 is not more accurate than a 1911
Secondly, there is no "best" 9x19 millimeter pistol, its all personal preference,
Thirdly, the .45 is a better combat round due to its lager grain bullet and more dispersion of energy on contact,
and Lastly, while caliber is not the most important factor, the .45 A.C.P is superior to the 9x19mm because the 9 is a small lightweight bullet, while the .45 is a large heavyweight bullet.
P.S. sign your posts.
~~ PunisherDave
: Well, i tested both CZ75 and 1911. I was doing better with CZ. Anyway - I would take it into combat because of for example mag size. And 9mm bullets are way much more common... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Military 1911s almost universally sucked, with ultra loose fitting parts and 7 pound triggers, and nearly useless sights. 1911s in the civilian world, or the uber built special forces 1911, are nice. But your average GI 1911....not so. Im sure a cz75 would kick its ass in accuracy and reliability if you wanted to use more than ball ammo.
~~k9870
: Ágreed. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 13:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Those old 1911's had one thing going for them though, there was a hell of a lot of abuse you could put them through before they malfunctioned. Reliability is a factor. I'm not saying the CZ isn't reliable though, don't get me wrong. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 17:24, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It was once said "the colt 45 will drop a charging bull dead in its tracks, but good luck hitting it.

Haha, while I do know (note how I'm just basing what I say off of research, so I am open to corrections. Hopefully one day I can fire a 1911 and CZ to really know the differences)that the old GI 1911's were often maligned for their lack of accuracy, I've also heard people say it isn't that big of a deal considering that it is a handgun. In a military capacity, the pistol is there when shit gets up close and personal and you need to defend yourself. When the guy is close enough that you can see the whites of his eyes, I'm sure you're not gonna have to be a deadeye to land shots on target. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 18:21, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:My buddy's father was a Marine in Vietnam, and at least according to him, a lot had to do with the fact that their M1911s were just really old and worn. I would think that WWII production of M1911s would've been more enough to supply US forces for decades. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:29, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Ive heard they manuactured no new 1911s after ww2, and that they just swapped parts, keeping frame and slide. They were loose fitting, and rattled in holsters. a 7 pound single action trigger, and the sights are just awful, especially against a dark background, cheap 3 dot sights would be better. problem is when people think "1911" they think of the sweet modern ones. To be fair, military berettas are beat to hell too, and have known countless people to say the sights were misaligned, magazines had weak springs, etc.
The cz-75 though, this is the first time ive seen it in a game, its pretty cool. I cant wait to use it, im sick of the beretta being the staple 9mm.
-k9870

Misaliged sights are from them getting knocked around and is easily fixed, worn mag springs is through use and they are easily replaced.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:33, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

It is true that no new 1911's were purchased after World War 2. The same .45's that were on G.I's hips in Europe and The Pacific were being carried by U.S troops during the Gulf War in the 1990's. I've heard that the quality of the 1911's varied from gun to gun. Some were actually were in decent shape while others were just horrid. I don't believe they all suffered from the problems that K9870 is saying. Although I admit the standard sights on those guns are just awful, Most of the time I can't even make out the front post. A lot of soldiers I've read actually preferred a 1911 to the M9 and carried it when possible. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 22:37, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I dunno about the automatic thing... I myself have only heard of the machine pistol variant of the CZ-75 until very recently, plus I don't think it has a place in media history as a well-known variant of the CZ-75 (much less the CZ-75 itself, outside of [[Gunsmith Cats]]), so I don't know how Treyarch could know about it. Most of the guns they got ideas for the game from are the airsoft guns they had in their office, and last I checked no one makes an airsoft automatic CZ-75. So I would bet my money on that this is just the game's Desert Eagle - the pistol that outshines the rest (and it's about time! The CZ-75 is very underused in the media, IMO). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 09:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually I'm thinking that the Python is gonna be the Power Pistol of this game followed by the 1911. The CZ is probably gonna be the 9mm hi cap of the game.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I hope they dont neuter it for "balance" and that it is awesome, who cares if they need to balance with the makarov and asp? When you buy better guns, they should actually be better, not just change one stat for another.

==asp==

was the asp pistol any good or even used much? It seems the grips would be slippery and the sights are weird.
-k9879
:According to a random site I found, it wasn't used much. Originally, only 100 were produced, and if they are still produced, they are produced only on a pistol-by-pistol basis by custom gunsmiths or shops or something along those lines. The grips were smooth because the original designer intended it to be the ultimate concealed carry pistol, and the smooth grips helped this keeping the chance for the hand to snag on the grips while pulling, aiming, and firing to a minimum. In addition, the sights are weird but when aimed through, due to the design of the sight which employed fluorescent panels, would point at the target when properly aligned, making it easier to shoot reflexively. -Chris Hun7er 23:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

It is a S&W Model 39 which was a really good pistol. It looks as though its in the game because of the size of the Makarov. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:34, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Over-Under Shotgun ==

The Over-Under Shotgun AKA "Olympia", seems to be based off of a Browning Citori XT shotgun. I don't have a screenshot of the gun ingame (It was on the ground, and in HD, but the page was protected so I couldn't save it). But I am pretty sure that the Browning Citori XT is the real-life inspiration for the Olympia.

==Snubnose more accurate?==

What game designers brilliant idea was this? i could understand faster switch or something, but higher accuracy?

I think they were too stupid to make the snubnose version default and a 6" barrel an attachment. --[[User:Xarex|Xarex]]

A 4 inch python is a great service handgun, they should just have 4inch standard, the 6 inch a slower draw but more accurate, the snubby less accurate but faster draw, and unlocks like a nickle finish, different grips, pimp it out however you please.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would think that a snub makes it more accurate, this is just stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

On the COD wiki it shows the stat page ffor snubnose, down one bar power, up one accuracy.
k9870
:It could be that one of the developers mixed it up by mistake, if its not a mix up..... then why bother making videogames with real guns anymore if Treyarch is just going to make up stuff. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 08:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

::A snub nosed revolver has less power AND accuracy than a full size revolver.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 10:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

:::I mean in a video game sense (balance over realism), wouldn't a shorter barrel logically mean less accuracy? Sorry if what i said earlier sounded like i wanted Treyarch to make the game like real life. I just meant that Treyarch would be messing with logic to make a shorter barrel mean higher accuracy. --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 12:41, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Black Ops Zombies weapons ==

For those that are wondering, this is the "teaser" trailer for Black Op's Zombie mode www.gknova6.com

So far the weapons I can see and identify are the HK21E, Ithaca M37 Trench Gun, a sniper rifle that looks similar to the design of an Artic Warfare Super Magnum and a tricked out AK variant.

Also it seems we may have Zombies in modern arenas like Office complexes and Labs [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Makarov with target sights. ==

I just noticed that the Makarov has target sights instead of the Military sights. That definatly seems wrong for Military use.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Military sights suck, im sure special forces would replace them.

Maybe but as I recall they didn't have target sights back then, plus they are Dropped by the Russians so they would have the military sights. They aren't that bad by the way, I have personal experiance with them and they are fine.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Saw on COD wiki "upgraded iron sights" as an attachment.

==Strela-3 Missile launcher! Latest Trailer!==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA 1:10 "Vehicle Lock-On Only". Also whats that gun at 2:03, it makes me confus
--[[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]] 17:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

==Who Wants to Ice Castro?==
Apparently you can do it, and there's even an achievement for doing it in one shot!
http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/call-of-duty-black-ops/news/call-of-duty-black-ops-achievementstrophies-reward-you-for-murdering-monkeys-and-fidel-castro/a-20101001104021980032/g-20100430155437473001
[[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 18:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

tell ya what , if you can do that cuba is gonna be pissed . simmons 8492
Oh, oh, I DO!!! :D [[User:Young Gun]]

== Clues from leaked Achievements list ==

Full list here. SPOILERS! [http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2]

:-The player gets to use TOW missiles in the game.
:: MP killstreak list is more than few days old.
:-It's DEFINITELY alternative history.
:: That was clear.
:-The Grim Reaper is in the campaign somewhere.
:: Seen already in one of first trailers.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== Found a PSG1 ==

[http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101001181628/callofduty/images/f/f9/Psg1better.jpg Here], to the right of the G2 --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 19:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

: '''Oh. My. God'''. 2000 Famas with flamethrower and M16 handguard. I beg it would sound crazy month ago. Looking forward MoH much more. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
:Sharp eye, dude. You have my respect. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:13, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63 RAK ==

@ 2:04 in the new trailer here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_r4-eTmlA] Looks like a PM-63 RAK
[[Image:BO Unidentified.JPG]]--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

:He he, monkey.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 02:31, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Galil ==

Hey guys, found an ingame image of the Galil, head over to the Black Ops page to see it --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Explanation for Impossibly Inaccurate Weapons ==

It is possible that the explanation is that not all of this game is 1968. By looking at www.gknova6.com viral ad site for black ops, reading the trophy/achievemnt list, and by piecing together all the nova-6 gas based missions I believe that one of the playable characters will be killed or severely wounded in the Bay of Pigs Invasion in Cuba(due to the Sacrifice tropy found on the list at http://planetcallofduty.gamespy.com/View.php?view=CODBOGameInfo.Detail&id=2). The Gk Company or the Russian goverment then has him revived or recovered to relate what happened with his Ops in the year 1993(www.gknova6.com) or 2010(reveal) at Rebirth Island(Vozrozhdeniya Island) home to the Russian Microbioligical Warfare Unit(source wikipedia). This is not fannon look at the all the raw info of GKNOVA, the mission objectives of sevarel missions, and this GKNOVA6 Web site. Sorry for the long windedness but hopefully you will all understand.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 17:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

So...how does any of this new information explain the inaccurate weapons? The missions with the weapons in question like the AR-15 and the AUG really did took place in a time when they shouldn't exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:20, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Its confirmed this game is alternate reality/timeline so inaccurate weapons is less of a deal.
[[User:K9870|K9870]]

I was more or less talking about way off ones like the WA2000, FAMAS Felin, Artic Warfare, and Spectre M4.Trust me Im not saying thats a good excuse for F-ing up with the CAR-15 hybrid thing and the production "protoype" AUG but that might be the excuse for the G11 and all other post 1970 weapons.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 04:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course there's always the point that this is just a video game that has events based off of real life occurrences too... [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:02, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Model 1887 is back ==
In before complaining. Seen in the newest trailer around the 00:42 second mark.
http://kotaku.com/5661296/a-look-at-black-ops-single-player-gameplay-and-story

Definitely a shout out to Terminator 2 there. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 02:54, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It has been confirmed for single player campaign only, by trearch. Dunno about zombies --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh-ho, my friend, they are here. The best part is that the zombies are still of the Nazi variety. http://www.gknova6.com/agegate.php

:I mean dont know if its on zombies--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Only in one sequence within the campaign, don't think it's in zombies --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 22:26, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

What did enough people bitch about "how unfair" it is by blaming their lack of skill on "noob guns"?
:Honestly, I can understand why people complained about Akimbo 1887s. They definitely weren't balanced, since you could fire them almost constantly by staggering your shots until you had to reload. They also had almost insane range (For a video game shotgun), and very high power. I was fine with the single 1887, but I was glad that they nerfed the Akimbos. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 17:02, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

And I hope the zombies arent nazis, i want to fight commie zombies......

:Looks more like there may be a possibility of fighting not only Commie Zombies but Vietcong Zombies and regular civi zombies too, some of those screens look like their wearing office uniforms and lab coats besides military armor. In some ways I'm glad the 1887 is in singleplayer but at the same time I was kinda hoping it would also be added in multiplayer minus the silly akimbo models, they just looked wrong in my opinion. Also sign your posts with "~ ~ ~ ~" without quotations and spaces. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 17:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== The Deer Hunter ==
Looks like theres a scene in the new trailer similiar to the roulette scene in The Deer Hunter, I wonder how that will work in the game. (just a cut scene or a playable moment?) --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 03:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

'MOW" haha that shit gets me every time . simmons 8492
:Nips? Wow, you're doubly ignorant. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

*Actually, there is no proof the Vietcong actually did anything like that, and it is widely agreed among film critics that the Russian Roulette scenes are actually allegories for the American involvement in Vietnam. We also have a few Asian members on this site, so you should keep your racism to yourself. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

:Well I'm not Vietnamese, so that won't offend me. Besides, sticks and stones. I'm more American than I am Asian [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Dont want to look bad to future members, i know some is just joking but some people take everything seriously.

know what , your right . my bad guys . ill take it down. simmons8492

== Walther MPL confirmed ==

Found a video on G4 containing confirmation that the MPL SMG is in-game. For reference it's the gun painted all green http://g4tv.com/videos/49177/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops---Jungle-Multiplayer-Map-Exclusive/ [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 16:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== 'Grip attachment' on Sub Machine Guns ==

I've heard that the grip attachment on SMGs in fact deploys the stock. That would explain why they all seem to be removed/folded ont the SMGs.

:This is most proven on the Skorpion, attaching a grip actually attaches the wire folding stock [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:24, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

==Is it just me...==

or is using the same flip up sights on every damn gun just friggin lazy?

[[User:k9870|k9870]]

It's an attachment called 'improved iron sights'. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:32, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

No, there standard in game sights. The improved adds outiline and dots to pistols, the flip up sights on guns is laz and trying to look tacticool. Even the m60 has them

And because the standard factory iron-sights for the M60 and the FAMAS, well, SUCK. I really was not a fan of the M60's irons in COD4 and the Battlefield Bad Company games. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:19, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
: Agreed. Kinda bugged by the repetitive sights on some guns myself, but I'm not gonna let it get me down. Most of the guns have their own, correct sights. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, thats Treyarch development style. Put everything they want in any time etape. This game is already dead to me - actually, MoH with its 5 hour campaign is much better than MW2 and Black Ops ('' MW2 with different textures and anachronistic guns'' )
:: Wow dude, you must be from the future seeing as how you are able to form this opinion with a game that hasn't even been released yet. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 08:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Meh, I usually play games because they are fun. MOH was pretty realisitc, (compared to Call of Duty anyway...) but it definetly wasn't fun (online). I'll just revel in the ridiculousness of it all... Akimbo HS-10 FTW
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:16, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I just finally see these old obscure guns in games and they put lameass sights on, BTW medal of honors single player was cool (ending was abrupt and anticlimactic though) but online is glitchy and feels unpolished. I want to play COD.

Not really sure about the LAME part, but I'd rather have USABLE sights even if they aren't the originals and seem LAME in other people's eyes. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 20:46, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Is it so hard to ask for variety, im sure the stock sights are usable for a game, i may just use an AK online since it doesnt have flip ups.

Is it so much to ask them to give us variety in the same type of gun, like stock and stockless MP5 or underfolder AK. performances, it makes no difference, but I like variety in what you pick to shoot with. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

== *SPOILER* Zombie Mode Characters. ==

Hey, just saw the intro video for zombie mode. It seems you play as John F Kennedy, Richard Nixon, Some CIA Bloke and Fidel Castro... Heres the link:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnbhcHCP24g]r
::That fourth guy would appear to be Robert McNamara, JFK and LBJ's Sec of Defense. Why not just LBJ? Or Bobby Kennedy? They couldn't find two voice actors to do bad Bahston/Kennedy accents? ("Er-eh, toss me another maaahg!") --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Awsome.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 23:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

: These guys are only on bonus map that you get after finishing campaign. There are some random US sosldiers fighting Nazi Zombies in normal zombie mode. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Damn, i love cigars but hate commies. [[user:k9870|k987]]

Zombies better be commies, killing nazis got old i want to shoot commie zobies.

:Is it just me, or would LBJ be better replaced by LHO? (Lee Harvey Oswald.)
::Only if he could only carry three bullets at one time. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:47, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

=="escape the past"==

Its a achievemnet listed, does this imply time travel?
-k9870

Or that something one of the characters did is going to come back to bite them in the arse. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

If it's time travel I'm tearing someone at Treyarch a new one--[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:Don't get so defensive over a title. It could be a really cool section, forcing the player to battle his way out of his hometown. Or, maybe time travel. >.> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 23:31, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Nah I meant it all in good humour XD --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I highly doubt that it's actual time travel. From what we've seen and has been speculated, the majority of the campaign will take place as memories of Black Ops missions that the main characters participated in. No time travel, just photographic memories. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

==New Videos confirm various unknowns==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrNoLz4gC60&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=dvWBYFCAcck]

Among a few things, this video confirms that the G11 is burst fire only, and at the exceptional rate we expect. The poster has posted about many other of the weapons, also confirming that Full Auto is a pistol attachment for the CV-75. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:19, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Golden Guns are Fugly ==

I mean take a look at this!

[[Image:Golden_PSG1.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden PSG1]]

[[Image:Golden_WA2000.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden WA2000]]

[[Image:Golden_Stakeout.jpg‎|200px|thumb|none|Golden Ithaca Stakeout]]

[[Image:Golden_HS-10.jpg|200px|thumb|none|Golden HS-10]]

Also, it would appear the the Ithaca M37 IS the Stakeout version and not the Trench Gun version we initially believed [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:39, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:I thought golden guns were fugly before. >> [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

:That doesn't even look like real gold, it looks spray painted on! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:50, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The gold guns look terribad, probably will avoid using gold camo altogether :C --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 00:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Why spend money on gun colours, when you can just buy gun attachements? :D [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 20:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:^ This. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Eh, still gonna make my Duke of New York class with a gold Mac-10 and a nickel (I swear I saw a nickel or 'silver' camo) Python. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:23, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:Not sure it was confirmed, I think there was rumors flying around but nothing concrete. Besides, I don't think camo patterns can be applied to secondaries, which is lame. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 09:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Have you heard that even ACOG´s can be added on pistols ? This game is gonna suck.
:::Because the fact that you can put a scope on a high powered revolver (Something that's doable and often useful in real life) means that the game automatically sucks. Thank you for your insight. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Only python can take an acog. And as to golden guns you only use them if you want to and it looks like you can do it for individual guns instead of the whole damn class its in.

The Python's recoil with the ACOG looks pretty balanced, I'm not too bothered about it. Besides, is pretty cool that Treyarch are doing something a bit different. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 17:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:I just added pictures of all the golden guns, they are pretty gross. I would never waste any fake money to buy them.

==just watched zomie gameplay==

pentagon level, the zombies were amix of original nazi zombies and pentagon workers turned to zombies (were wearing shirt/tie)

Why cant they have communist zombies, seriously?

[[user:k9870|k9870]

:I guess they don't want to offend anyone who might be communist. --[[User:Chrausis|Chrausis]] 23:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I still hope there's some Nazi ones left. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:28, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Nazis made sense in ww2, but thats been done, we want something new, commie zombies.

From what I've seen, the WaW characters are returning to fight straight Nazi zombies, JFK and friends fight Pentagon zombies in the Pentagon, and there's another with Russian zombies in Winter camo (that's shown on that GKNOVA6 website right now). [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 04:30, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The JFK/Nixon/Castro/McNamara level is a bonus level at the end of the game, not the actual zombies mode. The real zombies mode features some new guys in some labs (as seen on GKNOVA6) most probably russian special forces. It will include communist zombies. and the characters from W@w are in it if you buy hardened --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 11:39, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I hope the pentagon level is 4 player co op so i can play with friends

==Interview with the military advisor==
Here is the link to the interview with the Call of Duty: Black Ops military advisor if anyone is interested in reading it. [http://www.3news.co.nz/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-military-advisor-interview/tabid/418/articleID/185313/Default.aspx] --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 16:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, that Advisor doesnt know anything about weapons. Or any kind of warfare. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Of course your in a position to judge him right...--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:56, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, god forbid Treyarch try and make a fun game, instead of a military simulator. Fun? What's that?! [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 10:52, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: But game can be fun even with realistic weapons or good AI of enemies.
Unfortunately, Treyarch went in MW2 way and instead of making enemy AI better, they spawned twice as much of them.
:::No one says COD was ever a military simulator, but a M16/M203 turning up during the Bay of Pigs invasion would seem to be a "bit" out of place. Now that we know the singleplayer is set between 1961 and 1968, any arguments about the game taking place in some era that justifies the anachronisms has become irrelevant.

==Just putting this out there==
Does anyone else believe that now that the game's actually out and we can get higher quality screenshots, that the old low quality caps be removed? Or maybe the entire page be redone so it looks a little more consistent because you have a low quality shot from an online video then a high quality ingame cap from the game. I'm just saying it probably would look better. --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 01:33, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the low-quality screencaps should be removed ASAP. I'll try to post some as I go through the single-player campaign, but eventually, they too may need to be replaced. I'm running it on 960x600 with no AA for playability. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:This page also need screencaps from the Zombies mode. I was unable to get the Thundergun (a two-shot sound wave gun that resembles a modern rocket launcher) and the Ray gun due to the constant waves of zombies that may sneak up on you and kill you easily, large number of barriers (too many to defend), and the poor weapons you receive in the early rounds. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I just finished single-player, and I've got tons of caps available. I'll try to upload that are relevant and in need later --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 04:18, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Impressions So Far? ==

What do you guys thinks of the game so far? My only dissapointment is that they have decided to remove the front sight when you use optics. Other than that, the guns look fantastic.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:I think it's alright, I haven't played campaign yet since the game is my roommate's so we've only been playing on Live. I think the only thing I'm not really liking so far is that they took away the slip-screen Special Ops. As for the guns, pretty much the same as yours along with the whole flame thrower thing, I just think it is rather ridiculous.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 06:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Boring. SP is short, unoriginal ('' This wont matter as MoH had short SP too. But it was atleast fun. Atmospheric and realistic fun. While its boring, unatmospheric and completely unoriginal in BO'' ) . There isnt anything like AI. Too many boring scripts. To the guns : They are anachronistic and unrealistic. It feels strange encountering NVA with Spas-12. MP is same like in MW2 ('' Read - Crappy'' ) with tons of spammed killstreasks etc.
:This game deserves '''5/10''', nothing more. Oh, and do not think i have something against Treyarch. I hated MW2 too. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I like it. SP was a bit of a mind fuck at times, and the AI could have been better, but 98% of the time I was having fun. MP is mostly good, better than MW2, though over the last 12 hours I started seeing some tubers. Yes it's anachronistic and ridiculous, but if I wanted an exact simulation of war I'd join the CF. Aside from some maps, I like it far more (In every way) than MW2. Galil w/ red dot & suppressor + 1911 w/ extended mags = awesomeness. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 15:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The story is actually pretty decent, better than the sponataneous betrayals of MW2. The voice acting is also, suprisingly, very well done. I really don't play multiplayer alot, but it's more balanced than MW2. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 15:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The constant flashes on the screen is annoying as hell. Almost gave me a seizure. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The campaign was a bit hard to follow at first, but it comes together nicely in the end. Yes, the weapons are ludicrous (not even ridiculous, beyond ridiculous,) but oh well, I can live with it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:Pretty much, I'll give this game a 9.2/10. The multiplayer and content is better and improved from Modern Warfare 2, but the campaign is a bit too short (only 15 missions :() and there's some minor complicated glitches in frame rate. Overall, the game is much better than Modern Warfare 2 and a good recommendation. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:24, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

To be honest guys I just ignore the ancronistic weaponry as it really doesnt matter in the long run. Lets face it, saying a game will suck because theres some AUGs in the 'nam era is just plain ludacris. If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops. Now that thats out of my system I can say with all honesty that this game is very addicting and its finnally a challenge to kill people(5-6 shots for a kill rather than 3-4 shots a kill in MW2). This game is a way more fun experince than MW2 and finally shows the potential of Teyarch development team. ---P226 21:24, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

: I agree, you people take the weapons accuracy way too seriously. What the hell did you expect from a mainstream video game? The only games that are ever 100% accurate with the guns, lets face, are awful. At least this games fun. Hate it for any other reason, that's fine I'll respect that. Hate it for innaccuracies when you really should be used to by know, and that's just ridiculous. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:: You and P226 have both just contradicted yourselves. On the one hand you state it's ridiculous to say a game sucks because of the guns, but then go on to say games that have accurate depictions of guns suck. If the game is fun, it's going to be fun whether the guns are accurate or not. I can't believe that if Black Ops had the correct weapons in it that it suddenly wouldn't be fun anymore. Perhaps you can give an explanation of how this would be so?
::''If Treyarch decided to stick to realistic guns of that period, we would just end up with a bunch of bland, unoriginal guns we have all seen before, making this game both an unnecisary COD sequel and just another crappy Vietnam game that flops.''
::I have to totally disagree with this statement. If Treyarch had used firearms of the period, we would have ended up with weapons that, to my knowledge, have never before been used in a video game. I have mentioned in other posts how the Remington 7188, an automatic shotgun that was really used by the NAVY seals in Vietnam could have been used in Black Ops. Instead we get the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time, and has been used in a million other video games. Which is the "bland, unoriginal" gun here? I'm gonna have to say the SPAS-12. Of course, if Treyarch had used the period correct shotgun the game would all of a sudden not be fun anymore and would suck, right?
::''The only games that are ever 100% accurate with the guns, lets face, are awful.'' I find this statement hard to believe. Would you care to back this up with some examples?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 04:39, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I never said having a game with correct guns of that period is going to be bad, I was trying to make a point that if Black Ops were to have just your standard m16's,Ak47's and colt Commando's, it would be just some normal Vietnam game. Also, all the guns above have been done to death in every video game none to man (though they are nice to have to fill in weapon slots), in my opinion I find the Galil as sweet( and different) Assualt Rifle, Ancronistic or not. If your the kind of guy who can't get over the fact that your using guns lke the AK'''74'''u and the CZ'''75''' in 1968, then this isn't the game for you. ---P226 18:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

:I don't know if you guys remember "Men of Valor," but it was a Vietnam FPS that came out a few years ago. It was developed by the same studio that did MoH: AA, so it felt a lot like MoH: Vietnam.) All the weapons were historically accurate, nothing was out of place, but if you've never heard of it, I'm not surprised. The game isn't bad, but it's not great, and it's flawed. The weapons were correct, but there weren't that many, and many of the weapons were just variations on the same weapon. (M16 and CAR-15, M14 and M21, and AK-47 and Type 56, and you couldn't share ammo for some reason.) Thus, you can make a game like BO that has ludicrously anachronistic weapons and have the biggest media launch of all time, or a game like Men of Valor that has historically accurate (and yes, boring) weapons and have it be unknown to the general gaming public. (You should try out Men of Valor though. If you have an original Xbox, you can get it new for a penny. It's not backwards compatible though.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:36, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

: I just might have to pick that up. And when I said the games with 100% accurate weapons suck, I didn't mean they sucked because of the guns, I meant that every game I could think of that was ultra-realistic just simply wasn't fun. No contradiction. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:54, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:You all seem to say the guns don't matter, but then show your disdain for having the correct weapons in the game, as if this would somehow make it boring. ''I never said having a game with correct guns of that period is going to be bad, I was trying to make a point that if Black Ops were to have just your standard m16's,Ak47's and colt Commando's, it would be just some normal Vietnam game.'' So if Black Ops had the exact same story, but the correct guns it would just be a normal Vietnam game? Why? The story makes the game, not the guns. And there's plenty of weapons that would be correct to the period that haven't been "done to death" (HK-33 w/ 40 rd mag, used by Navy SEALS, Carl Gustav m/45, Remington 7188, the list goes on) What exactly qualifies as bland,unoriginal guns, that if they were included would make the game boring? I just get the impression from you that the only interesting guns in this game are the ones that dont' belong there. My point is that they could have had period correct weapons and it wouldn't have affected the fun factor of the game at all--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 04:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
::I am more bothered by the guns that didn't make the cut. Why not an M76, a Carl Gustav, a Madsen M50, or an M3 Grease Gun? Sure, they could've, but they didn't, probably on purpose. That brings leads me to what can be an interesting exercise: what would've been better weapons on each level? For the first level (the Cuban one) I would've put in an M2 Carbine and a PPK instead of the M16 and ASP. Other levels? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:20, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

:::You pose an interesting question, but there are actually a lot of different choices so it's one not easily answered. I agree with you on the M-2 carbine, it would be very appropriate for the Cuban level. I feel another good choice would have been one of the Czech SA series of submachine guns. If you've ever seen photos from the Bay of Pigs Invasion, you would have noticed that SA 25 quite a common weapon in the hands of Castro's forces. The FAL is actually historically correct for that level, but it's more likely that was an accident than by design.
:::I haven't played the game yet, so I'm not familiar with all the levels, but I have some general ideas of what they should have included. For pistols a Browning Hi-Power, and if Treyarch absolutely had to have a machine pistol, they could have used the Stechkin. For SMG's, the Carl Gustav M/45 standard model or suppressed version, and if not that then the Madsen M50. The SA 23,24,25,or 26, a Beretta model 12 w/ 40 round mag instead of the Spectre, maybe the MAT-49 for the NVA/Vietcong, if not the standard version then the suppressed model that was supposedly employed by NVA counter-SOG teams. If the MP-5 is going to be included then the standard MP5A3 should have been used instead of that ugly ass prototype MP5K.
:::Of course replace the damn SPAS-12 with the Remington 7188. HK33 instead of the AUG. The correct model CAR-15 instead of the flat top Commando. How about the AMD-65 instead of an AKS-74U? I think they should have axed the RPK altogether and perhaps used 2 different Russian machine guns, maybe an older model like the RP-46, and then the PK for the Spetsnaz.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:53, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

::: RPK instead of "''RPK''" in first level. Also AK-47 instead of "''AK-47''" in second one. Vladimirov KPV instead of Minigun would be awesome. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, this game doesnt suck just because of guns. It sucks because its boring, it doesnt have AI and MP is shitty just like in MW2. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

How is the MP shitty, its definitly not, It developed to be much more balanced than MW2 in every way. Although it isnt perfect,(commando lunges...)it certainly makes modern warfare 2 look like crap as a SUBMACHINE GUN....*cough*UMP45*cough* had more power and range than most assualt rifles. As for the people listing the guns that should have been in the game, all I can say is 'sure I wish they added more time appropriate guns like the Carl Gusav and the Greese Gun, but its too late now and its going to be somthing we have to live as there is no point complaining about it on the internet(not trying to say that in harsh or disrespectful way). I feel if we can all sit down , forget all those anchronisms, and just enjoy this game for what it is, a FICTIONAL cold war/ Vietnam Game. Also on a side note, I think if Treyarh were to have focused this game on Vietnam mainly, then we would have all the correct weaponry, but since there going for a 'top secret CIA' type game,they add all these ludacris guns to accomidate the feel and presence of the cold war.---P226 20:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Pistol grips ==

Anyone noticed that there isnt gun without pistol grip ? Jeez. They put one even on Mosin. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Mosin and ppsh dont have them, characters just hold them like they do.

: Maybe in first person. But mosin has actually pistol grip when its in hands of NPC´s.

No, they just hold their hand as if they were, when its on their backs or they die and drop it doesnt, its probably due to all other characters carrying pistol grips and they dont want too redo characte rmodeling.

I was taking a closer look at when they hold it (Mosin) and guess what, the world models are normal, but when they hold them they DO have pistol grips.... but i do agree, they probably didn't want to make new models. They probably put grips on them while their holding the weapon just so they didn't look even more awkward (floating hands). --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 22:13, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Not all the weapons have pistol grips. If you watch them carefully there are no pistol grips EXCEPT on Steiner's Mosin that is given to him my a Soviet soldier. It is actually modeled as having a pistol grip that is quite visable. Otherwise they do not have pistol grips on anything, it just looks like it. --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 16:00, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Steiners Mosin does not have a pistol grip, its a modeling error because its really a P38 in his hands along with the Rifle--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:11, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

== Gold weapon images ==

Do we really need all those pictures of the gold camo? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah. It shows how silly and disguisting tis game is.
Disgusting? It's not THAT bad, man. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:42, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Sign your posts. But, I agree that the gold weapon pictures are rather unnecssary. If someone has the PC version of the game, taking pictures of the standard weapons in multiplayer would be greatly appreciated.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 20:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

== Semi Auto FAL ==

Since it is semi auto only, shouldn't it be renamed to the SLR? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:56, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

It has a metric reciever and handguards but a SLR-style flash hider... Its a Franken-gun but nowhere near as bad as MW2's FN-FAL was...--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:59, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Snub-nose ==
Could the effect of this actually reduce the visual recoil of the Python, allowing you to fire off your next shot faster, and thus make it "more accurate"? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 16:56, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

But wouldn't it instead exacerbate recoil, without the weight of the barrel to mitigate it? If anything, a snub-nose would make the recoil more pronounced, and thus less accurate for quick follow-up shots.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 23:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Huh.....looks like I really suck at gun physics when it comes to recovery time and barrel lengths >_> --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:32, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Though it may be incorrect for real life, I'd say Hashiriya's idea is most probably how it works in game. Since all weapons in COD are perfectly accurate when aiming, the accuracy stat is there to show how easy it is for the player to accuratly shoot the weapon, not the actual weapon's accuracy as we would think of it. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

== Tunnel Rat Revolver ==
When in the tunnels, the report of the Python is fairly muted. Is the implication therefore that is it loaded with "closed circuit" shotgun ammunition as used by the experimental [http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg213-e.htm Quiet Special Purpose Revolver] as tested by Tunnel Rats in Vietnam?

When ever its fired inside a building its strangely quieter yet louder when you step outside.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's your eardrums preemptively ('prolly didn't spell that right) exploding? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:18, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, wasn't that ammunition meant for a .44 magnum? Also its just the way it sounds when its indoors.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:46, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Stop Complaining==

Please just stop. Who cares if the guns aren't accurate? Just sit back and enjoy the Game! If you don't like the game, don't play it! [[User:SAMBAMA|SAMBAMA]]

: 1, I dont play game, because its boring and its just ripoff of MW2. Which was crap too.
: 2, This is firearms site. Not some gaming one. So it doesnt make sense to stop complaining.
: 3, I wont be complaining if those guns would be 3 or 4 years from future. But ''30-40'' ?
--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:38, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Your late to the party, we for the most part don't care anymore.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

^ Hahahahaha! [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 19:08, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

==Crossbow==
I was playing zombies the other day and got the crossbow out of the box. I do't know if anyone else has seen this but, at least I think, it bears a major resemblance to the PSE Tac 15 crossbow. Again this is just me but if that's true I'm pretty sure that would make it the most anachronistic weapon in the game seeing as it was made maybe 2 or 3 years ago? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 16:05, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

The PSE TAC 15 uses either an AR15 lower, or is included with basically a reciever shaped the same. Looking at it, it does not appear to have an AR15 type lower reciever on it, judging from the lack of the empty magazine well in front of the trigger. Maybe the upper does a little, I would agree, but in it's entirety in my opinion I don't think it does.--[[User:Fnlover|Fnlover]] 20:44, 05 January 2010 (UTC)

==1911 in Zombies==
The 1911 in zombies is just the regular nickeled finish like in multiplayer it looks black because of the low light in the starting room. If you go outside by the 'double tap' vending machine you can see it in daylight.

In FIVE where the lighting is fine, its still a Blued finish.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:08, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Really? It looks just like the Multiplayer's nickle plated M1911, I checked just a few minutes ago. Not an expert on this, but if it was a blued finish then wouldn't that make it a lot less shiny? For all the poorly lit rooms in Nazi Zombies, it seems to reflect like a spotlight at times.

In Kino, its the Nickle plated one but in FIVE it looks blued or actually poorly done lighting. Blued is shiny by the way, I have actual guns to prove that.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:52, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

It was Five that I checked, it looks nickle plated to me, so iunno. And thanks for clearing the shine thing up, I thought blueing made the metal duller and not very reflective, I must have mixed that up with something else.

You could be thinking of Parkerizing, which results in a dull finish. --[[User:Graybass 20x6|Graybass 20x6]] 02:59, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Ohyah, parkerizing. I knew it was something with -izing in it, thanks.

== Did alittle overhauling ==

Removed the misimformation (Shiny black finish is called a Blued finish) and another things.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

==Front Cover 1911==

Is it just me or is the 1911 in the soldier's hand on the title picture (the right hand when you're looking at it) missing its hammer? I've been looking as closely as I can, but I just can't seem to find it. An error on the artists part perhaps? Strange though, the pistol marked "Sally" has its proper hammer.--[[User:august.allocco|august.allocco]] 17:32, 30 December 2010

Looks like a combination of the light and the angle making it hard to spot. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:30, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

== Silencer or Suppressor ==

I was looking at some of the images on this page and noticed that some said they were "silenced" or "with silencer", yet others used suppressor. I always thought suppressor was correct, and silencer only described the effect (although Call of Duty games are notorious for spreading this word around). I have not played black ops, so I was wondering if we would call the attachments silencers or suppresors? --Fnlover 05:42, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
:From what I've heard, both are technically correct, and when the original device was created by Maxim, he patented it as a 'silencer'. Yes, it technically doesn't make the gun silent, but that's it's official name. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:36, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
::They both are correct, even the BATF calls them silencers on the paperwork.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 05:23, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
:::But "suppressor" is the preferred term on this site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:09, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Possible Identity of Over/Under Shotgun ==

Hey everyone, long-time fan of the site, first-time contributor here. I believe I have come across the true identity of the over/under shotgun. I've tried to do as much homework as I could before submitting.

The shotgun appears to be a Beretta: the S-686. Here is the picture for your perusal: [http://armpou.com/images/BERETTA%20686%20SILVER%20PIGEON%20S.jpg Beretta S-686]. Note the identical engraving and design of the barrel pivot assembly.

I don't believe that it could be a Rottweil Olympia. The only picture I could come up with (it's pretty elusive) looked nothing like the in-game model: [http://www.guncity.co.nz/images/162403.jpg Rottweil Olympia]. It's rather plain in comparison, with a much different pivot assembly design and geometry.

What do you guys think? --[[User:Graybass_20x6|Graybass_20x6]] 1:45, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

== You know... ==

The more and more I read the discussion page, the more and more I realize you guys should develop a game. Maybe not go that far, maybe just have the developers of a game contact you guys for some info, rather than watch Predators, or Commando, or some other action movie and call it good.

:Together we would create the most weapons realistic game ever! But we don't have the funds or the people to program at least that I know of.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:43, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

::Well, since CoD4:MW, CoD series is known by its many small detail mistakes the developers did to vehicles, factions, weapons, character's clothing, etc.
::This mistakes cannot stop you from playing, but if it's really bothers you, you can use the mod tool to create a mod that accurate every aspect of the game/s, of course if you have the desire for it... I would do that to many games I could, if I had the desire too. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:::Sounds like the Project Reality Mod for Battlefield 2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:19, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually, my uncle does that stuff for IW maybe I should give him a few notes...

:More than a few I would say, ask him to check this site and ask for opinions. We would be happy to help!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:34, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I've been on board for a couple of game projects involving other people over the net, mainly as a story writer and overall ideas man. The main problem with developing games through the internet is the lack of interest over time. At the beginning of the projects I've seen, it seems there is never a lack of volunteers and collaboration. However, the projects I've undertaken (over the internet) have always seemed to lose steam after a whirlwind of work and progress, and within a month or two it's left to a bare-bones cast of a few people who eventually drop it due to lack of manpower. I'd absolutely love to have another project to do (I've had ideas for an FPS milling about in my head for ages), but I also fear that it will be all for naught within a few weeks. --[[User:Graybass 20x6|Graybass 20x6]] 02:59, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

:I completely agree. I myself, writing an idea for a game which in the meantime it's called "Lead Storm" - an FPS game based on other existing games/series like CoD, MoH, Crysis, BF, Tom Clancy's, etc. This game is also involves the accuracy of small details, from weapons to equipment to cloths and many other things. I really want this game to be exists, but it's hard to do it alone. I need people who can program, animate and generally design stuff using various programs. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 14:44, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm so down for that, but it does seem like something that people would lose their dedication to pretty quickly.
::::what IW/tryarch need are proper researcher's ones that actually research, not ones that get a retired marine from the 60's to do all thier work (look at that supposed retired marine, he knew nearly nothing about firearms) or watch black hawk down and just copy everything [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:18, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::People that were in the Military don't usually know much about guns other than the ones they trained on and were issued and thats it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:31, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::i don't see why other people dont realise that. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 09:44, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
::That is the problem with the developers: They don't really care if the in-game weapons will have bullet ejection ports or something like that, they don't really care about the small details of the game (depends on what details). Many people also say the same thing, because the main task is too create a game that satisfy the buyers, without looking at the small details. I think that every war game supposed to be much realistic as it can get. I'm not talking about realism as Operation Flashpoint, or ARMA, or Tom Clancy's games where the gameplay and so could be a little bit frustrating. You can keep the normal gameplay of Call of Duty, but just work a little bit on the details so you will see no differences between the game's realism to ours. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 13:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Splinter Cell: Conviction

2011-02-05T09:33:48Z

Scarecrow: /* People Please */

== Gameplay ==
is it just me or has sam fisher rapidly turned younger since double agent--[[Special:Contributions/92.0.235.181|92.0.235.181]] 10:42, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

It's not just you, Sam has changed and not in a good way. The new development team have thrown the traditional Tom Clancy values out the window in favour of a more Hollywood-style approach. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 14:41, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

i played the demo and really didnt like the new direction.it was challenging aiming for thehead from a shadowy position but now all you have to do is press RB and y and it selects the targets and kills them. not stealthy.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
:Not true. The old games' aiming system was terrible. You could have a perfect shot set up and still miss. Plus, M&E requires a hand-to-hand takedown. The demo was set up to give you them, but the full game will have different layouts and more hostiles. Plus, M&E still requires you to know what you're doing; taking down people in plain view/well-lit areas will result in you getting spotted or alerting the guards. Finally, the best argument: "You don't have to use it." --Chris_Hun7er 02:15, 26 March, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I'll jump in. I won't comment on much of the gameplay, save to say that I like some things and dislike others but ultimately I can't change any of it. What I want to ask is if anybody else can't stand the way they tilt their guns diagonally. I mean, it looks kind of cool in that it's different and supposedly done by the best of the best, but after holding a gun that way it's just distracting to see it because I can't imagine shooting very accurately like that. -- ZG
:Look up Center Axis Relock. It is a shooting style that basically allows you to put a lot of lead downrange in a short amount of time and to keep possession of your handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc. in CQC. Not exactly helpful in SCC, but it's a real shooting style. --Chris_Hun7er 06:30, 29 March, 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks so much for the info, Chris. I feel like such an idiot now. If I'd just watched the developer diary I wouldn't have had to ask about it. Been checking out the CAR system, seems a little strange to me, but I can be a purist in many ways sometimes. Guess I'd have to try it to see if it helps throw lead faster. -- ZG

"You don't have to use it!" is the worst argument I've ever heard.

''Splinter Cell: Conviction'' is a huge failure and a disgrace to the Tom Clancy name. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 13:35, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Tom Clancy has absolutely nothing to do with these games, y'know. It's a brand, it's slapped on there so more people buy it. As for the change in this game's content, blame the new content director they brought in, who was dissatisfied with Sam being so old and slow, and wanted the game to go faster. Also blame the consumer who got their panties in a bunch over the original concept and not wanting they're precious Sam Fisher to have a goddamn beard and some hair.

Tom Clancy ''used'' to be involved with these video games, although I don't know where the hell he has been in recent times. Also, ''I do'' blame Creative Director Maxime Béland who thought that Sam was a "grandma" and wanted him to be like James Bond, Jason Bourne, and Jack Bauer who "run fast, they don’t make noise, they kill one, two, three or four guys super quickly". The consumers who didn't like "Hobo Sam" (as dubbed by them) can go #### themselves. After ''Double Agent'', Sam was up the creek without a paddle and on the run from the people he used to work for because they thought he was a terrorist. Sam Fisher was a 53-year-old war veteran and former black ops agent who lost his daughter to a drunk driver and was forced to murder his best friend in order to keep his cover so that he could stop John Brown's Army from unleashing Red Mercury upon America. Now, Ubisoft Montreal have turned him into a Jack Bauer rip-off who can burst into a room and kill four men with headshots from a pistol before their bodies have time to hit the ground. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.52.65|203.206.52.65]] 12:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

==USP==
I was playing the demo on the Xbox 360 and I went into the Options menu and I noticed a H&K USP (Unknown caliber.) (Guy in the background holding it with one hand) Can anyone double check for me? (I don't own a Xbox 360 so I can not confirm it myself but I was playing it at a friend's house.) [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 22:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:It can be the [[Splinter Cell: Conviction#Heckler & Koch Mark 23|Mk 23]], which is based on the [[Heckler & Koch USP]].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

That's what I thought as well. But I didn't see any threaded barrel on it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 10:32, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

:Then it is an USP. We get to see such weapons that are not in the game in the main menu, cover art,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Guys, I was watching a live stream and I can't prove it, but there is a USP. It is under the Desert Eagle (which makes the USP in the lower-right hand corner) in the Weapons Stash and is called the "USP .45" --Chris_Hun7er 07:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

==Five-seveN==
Not referred to as the F.M.P whatever in the game, so I removed that from the subtitle of the in-game picture. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 21:51, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that the "FMP8" was the beta name for the Five-seveN (much like how the "SMG-2" was the pre-release name of the SR-2M Veresk). [[Special:Contributions/124.169.217.190|124.169.217.190]] 04:53, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

==Identifying a handgun featured in a teaser for the '07 build of Splinter Cell: Conviction==
Would someone please be kind enough to identify the pistol that Sam is holding in this picture? It's from the '07 ''Conviction'' build so it's not wiki-worthy, but I am curious to know what it actually is. Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.52.65|203.206.52.65]] 10:35, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6594/ssplintercellconviction.png

:Desert Eagle? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 10:49, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:Profile spells SIG to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:Looks like a Desert Eagle to me. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 14:24, 28 May 2010 (CEST)

:Looks too small to be a Desert Eagle to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda looks like a 1911 to me [[Special:Contributions/208.66.9.130|208.66.9.130]] 00:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for your help people, it is kind of hard to identify the gun from what little we see of it (although I am pretty sure that it is not a IWI Desert Eagle). I was just curious, because concept art of '07 ''ConViction'' depicts Sam holding a Heckler & Koch MP7 personal defense weapon and gameplay of ''ConViction'' displays Sam shooting a hot dog stand with a Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun. I thought that it might have been a Heckler & Koch pistol, although from the wide range of comments it could be almost anything. If anybody else wants to add their own two cents, please do. [[Special:Contributions/124.169.227.214|124.169.227.214]] 02:15, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

== Wierd sight ==

Has anyone else noticed that the 'scope' upgrade on a couple of the weapons (the MP5SD-N1 and G36C if I remember correctly), are really M68 Aimpoints mounted ''backwards''? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 11:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

== People Please==
keep the discussion for the DISCUSSION page, i saw two people venting their input on a promotional posters drawing of the 5-7's caliber, if you wish got go on i will leave it here oh, and I took the chance to cleen up this page. (without deleting anything) [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 12:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
: Your not a mod, its not your job.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:24, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
::its a wiki...and heaps of people move/delete entry's for no reason, at least im not a complete ass and delete everything.[[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 09:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

:: Note: If you look at the cover/promotional art for the game, the Five-Seven Sam is holding has a barrel diameter that is way too big for the 5.7mm. It looks more like a a barrel for a .45 acp -Indyfan Its not, its the Poorly rendered muzzle with the slide around it. It isn't made to look like its a .45 ACP.

== Why do people think the AK74U is an SMG? ==

I had to move it back to the Assault Rifle section. Just because it has a short barrel, doesn't mean it's a submachine gun. SMGs fire only pistol ammo. Even when a specialized Assault Rifle is called one, it technically really isn't [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Blame video games >_>--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:02, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Splinter Cell: Conviction

2011-02-05T09:29:06Z

Scarecrow: /* People Please */

== Gameplay ==
is it just me or has sam fisher rapidly turned younger since double agent--[[Special:Contributions/92.0.235.181|92.0.235.181]] 10:42, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

It's not just you, Sam has changed and not in a good way. The new development team have thrown the traditional Tom Clancy values out the window in favour of a more Hollywood-style approach. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 14:41, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

i played the demo and really didnt like the new direction.it was challenging aiming for thehead from a shadowy position but now all you have to do is press RB and y and it selects the targets and kills them. not stealthy.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
:Not true. The old games' aiming system was terrible. You could have a perfect shot set up and still miss. Plus, M&E requires a hand-to-hand takedown. The demo was set up to give you them, but the full game will have different layouts and more hostiles. Plus, M&E still requires you to know what you're doing; taking down people in plain view/well-lit areas will result in you getting spotted or alerting the guards. Finally, the best argument: "You don't have to use it." --Chris_Hun7er 02:15, 26 March, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I'll jump in. I won't comment on much of the gameplay, save to say that I like some things and dislike others but ultimately I can't change any of it. What I want to ask is if anybody else can't stand the way they tilt their guns diagonally. I mean, it looks kind of cool in that it's different and supposedly done by the best of the best, but after holding a gun that way it's just distracting to see it because I can't imagine shooting very accurately like that. -- ZG
:Look up Center Axis Relock. It is a shooting style that basically allows you to put a lot of lead downrange in a short amount of time and to keep possession of your handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc. in CQC. Not exactly helpful in SCC, but it's a real shooting style. --Chris_Hun7er 06:30, 29 March, 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks so much for the info, Chris. I feel like such an idiot now. If I'd just watched the developer diary I wouldn't have had to ask about it. Been checking out the CAR system, seems a little strange to me, but I can be a purist in many ways sometimes. Guess I'd have to try it to see if it helps throw lead faster. -- ZG

"You don't have to use it!" is the worst argument I've ever heard.

''Splinter Cell: Conviction'' is a huge failure and a disgrace to the Tom Clancy name. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 13:35, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Tom Clancy has absolutely nothing to do with these games, y'know. It's a brand, it's slapped on there so more people buy it. As for the change in this game's content, blame the new content director they brought in, who was dissatisfied with Sam being so old and slow, and wanted the game to go faster. Also blame the consumer who got their panties in a bunch over the original concept and not wanting they're precious Sam Fisher to have a goddamn beard and some hair.

Tom Clancy ''used'' to be involved with these video games, although I don't know where the hell he has been in recent times. Also, ''I do'' blame Creative Director Maxime Béland who thought that Sam was a "grandma" and wanted him to be like James Bond, Jason Bourne, and Jack Bauer who "run fast, they don’t make noise, they kill one, two, three or four guys super quickly". The consumers who didn't like "Hobo Sam" (as dubbed by them) can go #### themselves. After ''Double Agent'', Sam was up the creek without a paddle and on the run from the people he used to work for because they thought he was a terrorist. Sam Fisher was a 53-year-old war veteran and former black ops agent who lost his daughter to a drunk driver and was forced to murder his best friend in order to keep his cover so that he could stop John Brown's Army from unleashing Red Mercury upon America. Now, Ubisoft Montreal have turned him into a Jack Bauer rip-off who can burst into a room and kill four men with headshots from a pistol before their bodies have time to hit the ground. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.52.65|203.206.52.65]] 12:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

==USP==
I was playing the demo on the Xbox 360 and I went into the Options menu and I noticed a H&K USP (Unknown caliber.) (Guy in the background holding it with one hand) Can anyone double check for me? (I don't own a Xbox 360 so I can not confirm it myself but I was playing it at a friend's house.) [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 22:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:It can be the [[Splinter Cell: Conviction#Heckler & Koch Mark 23|Mk 23]], which is based on the [[Heckler & Koch USP]].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

That's what I thought as well. But I didn't see any threaded barrel on it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 10:32, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

:Then it is an USP. We get to see such weapons that are not in the game in the main menu, cover art,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Guys, I was watching a live stream and I can't prove it, but there is a USP. It is under the Desert Eagle (which makes the USP in the lower-right hand corner) in the Weapons Stash and is called the "USP .45" --Chris_Hun7er 07:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

==Five-seveN==
Not referred to as the F.M.P whatever in the game, so I removed that from the subtitle of the in-game picture. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 21:51, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that the "FMP8" was the beta name for the Five-seveN (much like how the "SMG-2" was the pre-release name of the SR-2M Veresk). [[Special:Contributions/124.169.217.190|124.169.217.190]] 04:53, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

==Identifying a handgun featured in a teaser for the '07 build of Splinter Cell: Conviction==
Would someone please be kind enough to identify the pistol that Sam is holding in this picture? It's from the '07 ''Conviction'' build so it's not wiki-worthy, but I am curious to know what it actually is. Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.52.65|203.206.52.65]] 10:35, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6594/ssplintercellconviction.png

:Desert Eagle? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 10:49, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:Profile spells SIG to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:Looks like a Desert Eagle to me. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 14:24, 28 May 2010 (CEST)

:Looks too small to be a Desert Eagle to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda looks like a 1911 to me [[Special:Contributions/208.66.9.130|208.66.9.130]] 00:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for your help people, it is kind of hard to identify the gun from what little we see of it (although I am pretty sure that it is not a IWI Desert Eagle). I was just curious, because concept art of '07 ''ConViction'' depicts Sam holding a Heckler & Koch MP7 personal defense weapon and gameplay of ''ConViction'' displays Sam shooting a hot dog stand with a Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun. I thought that it might have been a Heckler & Koch pistol, although from the wide range of comments it could be almost anything. If anybody else wants to add their own two cents, please do. [[Special:Contributions/124.169.227.214|124.169.227.214]] 02:15, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

== Wierd sight ==

Has anyone else noticed that the 'scope' upgrade on a couple of the weapons (the MP5SD-N1 and G36C if I remember correctly), are really M68 Aimpoints mounted ''backwards''? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 11:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

== People Please==
keep the discussion for the DISCUSSION page, i saw two people venting their input on a promotional posters drawing of the 5-7's caliber, if you wish got go on i will leave it here oh, and I took the chance to cleen up this page. (without deleting anything) [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 12:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
: Your not a mod, its not your job.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:24, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
::its a wiki...and heaps of people move/delete entry's for no reason, at least im not a complete ass and delete everything.

:: Note: If you look at the cover/promotional art for the game, the Five-Seven Sam is holding has a barrel diameter that is way too big for the 5.7mm. It looks more like a a barrel for a .45 acp -Indyfan Its not, its the Poorly rendered muzzle with the slide around it. It isn't made to look like its a .45 ACP.

== Why do people think the AK74U is an SMG? ==

I had to move it back to the Assault Rifle section. Just because it has a short barrel, doesn't mean it's a submachine gun. SMGs fire only pistol ammo. Even when a specialized Assault Rifle is called one, it technically really isn't [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Blame video games >_>--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:02, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Generation Kill

2011-02-04T14:09:15Z

Scarecrow: /* Mk 19 grenade launcher */

[[Image:Generation_kill.JPG|thumb|right|300px|''Generation Kill'' (2008)]]

''Generation Kill'' is a seven part Iraq War miniseries that premiered on HBO in the summer of 2008. It is based on the book of the same name by Rolling Stone writer Evan Wright, who was embedded with the Marines of the First Reconnaissance Battalion during the initial stages of the 2003 US invasion of Iraq.

'''The following weapons are featured in the miniseries ''Generation Kill'':'''
__TOC__ 

=Rifles=
== M4A1 Carbine ==

The [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 Carbine|M4A1 Carbine]] is the main rifle used by the Marines of First Recon in the miniseries, including Corporal Josh Ray Person ([[James Ransone]]) and Sergeant Brad 'Iceman' Colbert ([[Alexander Skarsgard]]). The M4s seen in the series all have UTG full quad rails (as opposed to KAC rails, used by the real-life Recon Marines). Most of the Marines' M4s have no additional accessories, while the team leaders all have M4s fitted with [[M203]] grenade launchers and AN/PAC-IV infrared laser designators (in real life, the AN/PEQ-2 was used by the Recon Marines instead, which is why the show's dialogue makes reference to the PEQ-2 batteries). Sgt. Colbert's M4, which is the most unique of the M4 Carbines in the series, sports an AN/PVS-17 night sight (sometimes replaced with an ACOG scope), a M203 grenade launcher, UTG rail covers, PEQ-IV laser module, and an ERGO grip. Colbert appears to be the only Recon Marine whose M4 is fitted with optics, rather than the standard carry handle/iron sights. Sgt. [[Rudy Reyes]] carries an M4 with a UTG vertical foregrip and a PAC-IV; he is the only Marine who isn't a team leader and gets a PAC-IV, and also the only Marine whose M4 has a vertical foregrip.

[[Image:ColtM4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M4A1 Carbine with M68 Aimpoint scope and RIS foregrip 5.56mm]]
[[Image:GenerationK 005.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sgt. Colbert looks through the ACOG scope of his M4A1 with M203 grenade launcher affixed during the training sequence in Episode 1, "Get Some".]]
[[Image:GenerationK 013.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|In Episode 1 titled "Get Some", Sgt. Rudy Reyes prepares to run laps around Camp Matilda in full gear and carrying his M4, which has a UTG vertical foregrip and AN/PAC-IV laser sight. ''Trivia: [[Rudy Reyes]] plays himself in the series, and also helped train the actors.'']]
[[Image:GenK 024.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In Episode 3 "Screwby", Cpl. Person ([[James Ransone]]) is cleared to fire his M4A1. Note the blank adapter.]]
[[Image:Genkill M4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A closeup of Sgt. Colbert's M4A1, which is equipped with a AN/PVS-17 night sight and a M203 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:GenK 022.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sgt. Colbert ([[Alexander Skarsgard]]) sights an enemy bunker with the AN/PVS-17 night sight on his M4A1 in Episode 3 "Screwby".]]
[[Image:Genkill M4c.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Another view of Sgt. Colbert's M4A1.]]
[[Image:Genkill M4b.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Pvt. Christenson aims his M4A1 when searching an enemy encampment in Episode 3 "Screwby".]]

== M16A2 Rifle ==

The [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]] is carried by numerous Marines, including Lieutenant Nathaniel Fick ([[Stark Sands]]),
Captain Bryan Patterson ([[Michael Kelly]]), and Hospital Corpsman Second Class Robert Timothy 'Doc' Bryan ([[Jonah Lotan]]). The M16A2 has been mostly phased out for the newer M16A4, but because the mini-series depicts the Invasion of Iraq in 2003, the M16A2 was the standard rifle of most Marine units at the time.

[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]
[[Image:GKm16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|thumb|none|600px|In Episode 1, "Get Some", a Marine takes a break near a Humvee with some M16A2 rifles resting on the side. The rifles appear to be rubber props.]]
[[Image:gkm16a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'Doc' Bryan ([[Jonah Lotan]]) aims his M16A2 with M203 in Episode 1, "Get Some".]]
[[Image:GenKi 007.jpg|thumb|600px|none|With his M16A2 slung on his shoulder, Capt. Patterson ([[Michael Kelly]]) discusses tactics with the Battalion Commander ([[David Warshofsky]]).]]

== Kalashnikov variants ==

[[AKMS|Kalashnikov rifles]] are used by Iraqi soldiers, civilians and even American Marines, in particular one platoon commander, Captain Dave 'Captain America' McGraw ([[Eric Nenninger]]).

[[Image:AKMS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKMS - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:GenK 019.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Iraqi forces fire their AKMS rifles blindly at the Marines.]]
[[Image:GKAK.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Hey Captain, where'd you get that nice-looking AK?" 'Captain America' shows off the well-oiled Kalashnikov he's recovered to Cpl. Person in Episode 2 "The Cradle of Civilization".]]
[[Image:Genkill AKb.jpg|thumb|600px|none|"FOLLOW MY TRACERS!" 'Captain America' firing his AKMS during the capture of the abandoned enemy airfield during Episode 3 "Screwby".]]
[[Image:GenK 011.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'Captain America' fires his AKMS at a SUV to "deny the enemy transportation". Notice how the actor keeps from flinching.]]
[[Image:Genkill AK.jpg|thumb|600px|none|As one of the Marines videotapes, 'Captain America' picks up an AKMS from a dead Iraqi soldier, adding to his collection of Kalashnikovs.]]

== M40A1 sniper rifle ==

The [[Remington 700#M40 Sniper Rifle|M40A1 sniper rifle]] is used by Scout Sniper Sgt. Larry Shawn "Pappy" Patrick ([[Josh Barrett]]) to eliminate an enemy RPG team in episode 2.

[[Image:M40a1standard-1-.jpg‎ |thumb|none|350px|Remington M40 sniper rifle 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:GenK 014.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sgt. Patrick ([[Josh Barrett]]) prepares to fire his M40A1 as Sgt. Reyes ([[Rudy Reyes]]) spots for him.]]
[[Image:GenerationK 020.jpg|thumb|600px|none|In Episode 7 entitled "Bomb in the Garden", a SEAL sniper team is seen engaging targets with the M40A1 from the factory office.]]

=Machine Guns=
== M249 SAW Paratrooper ==

Some of the Marines, notably Lance Corporal Trombley ([[Billy Lush]]), carry the paratrooper variant of the [[FN Minimi|M249 SAW]] throughout the series. The M249 is also seen mounted on Marine UH-1 helicopters.

[[Image:M249ParaWAmmo.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M249 SAW 5.56mm paratrooper version with 200 round ammo drum]]
[[Image:GenK 023.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Lance Cpl. Trombley ([[Billy Lush]]) gets ready to open fire with his M249 Para. Note that his weapon is obviously loaded with blank rounds.]]
[[Image:GenerationK 009.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closeup of the M249 firing from Episode 1, "Get Some."]]
[[Image:GenKill SAW.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Lance Cpl. Trombley leans his M249 Para out the window.]]
[[Image:GenK 013.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Close observation reveals Walt's SAW is loaded with blanks here.]]
[[Image:GenerationK 001.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In Episode 6 entitled "Stay Frosty", a female Marine is seen carrying a M249 Para.]]
[[Image:GenKi 012.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In Episode 6 "Stay Frosty", a Marine UH-1 carrying Lt. Col Ferrando and Gen. Mattis is seen with door-mounted M249 Paras.]]

== PKM ==

[[PKM]] machine guns are used by the Iraqi forces throughout the miniseries, sometimes mounted on tripods.

[[Image:PKM-mg.jpg|thumb|400px|none|PKM with classic (most seen) version of the flash hider - 7.62x54R]]
[[Image:Genkill PKM.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An abandoned PKM machine gun, mounted on a tripod.]]
[[Image:Genkill PKMb.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sgt. Colbert approaches a dead Iraqi soldier and his PKM.]]

=Heavy Weapons=
== Browning M2HB ==

Several [[Browning M2|Browning M2HB]] machine guns are mounted on the Marines' Humvees, and are often used in conjunction with the Mk. 19 grenade launchers to assault Iraqi positions.

[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB on vehicle mount - .50 BMG]]
[[Image:GK50.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Garza during a training exercise.]]
[[Image:GenerationK 011.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cpl. Garza firing his Browning M2HB during a training exercise in Episode 1, "Get Some".]]
[[Image:GenKi 009.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Garza wearing his NVG's opens up with the M2HB.]]

== M136 AT4 ==

[[M136 AT4]] anti-tank weapons are seen in the Humvees and then later at the First Recon encampment in Baghdad. None are seen used in the miniseries.

[[Image:AT-4Launcher.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M136 AT4 Anti-Tank rocket launcher - 84mm]]
[[Image:Genkill AT4.jpg|thumb|600px|none|In Episode 7 "Bomb in the Garden", a row of AT-4's is seen behind Sgt. Colbert.]]

== M203 grenade launcher ==
The [[M203 grenade launcher]] is usually carried by the Marine team leaders and officers, including Sergeant Brad Colbert and Lieutenant Nathaniel Fick. In episodes 5 and 6, the M203s are used to launch blue smoke grenades in an attempt to prevent accidental shootings at roadblocks. In one tragic scene, a smoke grenade is fired to only ricochet off the ground and strike the head of a civilian.
[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M203 grenade launcher- 40mm]]
[[Image:CM4-M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M4A1 carbine 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] 40mm]]
[[Image:M16A2 M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A2 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:GenK 010.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Capt. Bryan Patterson ([[Michael Kelly]]) is on the radio with Ferrando as Gunnery Sgt. Rich Barrett (real life former Recon Marine [[Eric Kocher]]) lays down fire with his M4 with M203 during the battle in Nasiriyah.]]
[[Image:Genkill M203b.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Capt. Craig "Encino Man" Schwetje ([[Brian Wade]]) fires his M203 grenade launcher.]]
[[Image:GenK 021.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lt. Fick fires his M16 with the M203 underneath.]]
[[Image:GKM203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Doc" Bryan ([[Jonah Lotan]]) in the front takes aim at possible Iraqi fighters with his M16A2 with the M203 grenade launcher underslung.]]
[[Image:GenK 020.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A closeup of Colbert's M203 as he loads another grenade into it.]]
[[Image:GenK 008.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Sgt. Colbert launches a smoke grenade with his M203 in an attempt to stop an oncoming car.]]

== Mk 19 grenade launcher ==

The [[Mk 19 grenade launcher]] is seen mounted on several of the Marines' Humvees including Sergeant Colbert's. Seen operated by several Marines including Cpl. Anthony "Manimal" Jacks ([[Rich McDonald]]), Cpl. Walt Hasser ([[Pawel Szajda]]) and Cpl. Garza and is often used to demolish enemy strongpoints throughout the miniseries.

[[Image:US Mk. 19 40mm grenade machine-gun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Mk 19 grenade launcher 40mm in vehicle mounting]]
[[Image:GenK 009.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Cpl. Anthony "Manimal" Jacks ([[Rich McDonald]]) mans his Mk.19.]]
[[Image:GenerationK 004.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A front shot of Cpl. Walt Hasser ([[Pawel Szajda]]) as he handles the Mk.19.]]
[[Image:Genkill mk19b.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A Mk.19 AGL removed from it's vehicle mounts.]]
[[Image:GKmk19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|A Marine mans his Mk.19.]]
[[Image:GenerationK 018.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|Sgt. Rudy Reyes and Sgt."Pappy" Patrick check out the Mk.19 on their Humvee]]

== RPG-7 ==

[[RPG-7]] launchers are used by some Iraqi Feyadeen during their attempts to attack the invading American forces.

[[Image:Rpg-7-1-.jpg‎ |thumb|none|400px|RPG-7 70mm]]
[[Image:Genkill_RPG.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A dead Iraqi Feyadeen fighter with a RPG-7.]]
[[Image:GenK 015.jpg|thumb|600px|none|An RPG team as seen through the spotting scope of Sgt. Rudy Reyes.]]

==M242 Bushmaster chaingun==
The 25mm [[M242 Bushmaster chaingun]] is the main gun of the Marines' LAV-25 armored personnel carriers. The LAV's are seen firing their Bushmasters after the First Recon encounters enemy forces at the bridge. All LAV's that are seen in the series are computer generated. Originally they were practical vehicles made from plywood and sheet metal on a truck chassis, but due to their poor quality appearance the military advisers insisted that they be replaced with CG models, at the cost of $240,000.

[[Image:M242 25mm gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M242 Bushmaster chaingun 25mm]]
[[Image:GenK 003.jpg|thumb|none|600px|LAV-25's fire their Bushmasters on enemy positions.]]

=Handguns=
== Beretta 92FS ==

The [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92F/FS|Beretta 92FS pistol]] is carried primarily by Marine officers and NCO's throughout the miniseries.

[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Beretta 92FS 9x19mm]]
[[Image:GenkillM9.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Gunnery Sgt. Wynn seen with his Beretta 92FS holstered in his Interceptor vest.]]
[[Image:GenerationK 014.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Lt. Col. Stephen Ferrando ([[Chance Kelly]]) and Major Todd Eckloff ([[Benjamin Busch]]) are seen with their Beretta 92FS pistols in their leg holsters.]]

=Shotguns=

== Remington 870 ==

[[Remington 870]] shotguns are seen being carried by Meesh ([[Nabil Elouahabi]]), the Marine recon battalion's Iraqi translator, and Major Todd Eckloff ([[Benjamin Busch]]), the Battalion's executive officer.

[[Image:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg‎ |thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:GKshotty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In Episode 1 "Get Some", Meesh ([[Nabil Elouahabi]]) carries his Remington 870 shotgun as he goes to his Humvee]]
[[Image:GenerationK 015.jpg|thumb|600px|none|A passing shot of Meesh with his Remington slung over his shoulder from Episode 1, "Get Some".]]
[[Image:GenK 006.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Major Todd Eckloff ([[Benjamin Busch]]) with his Remington is seen standing over "Captain America".]]
[[Image:GenKi 010.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Major Eckloff is holding his Remington as he greets Lt. Col. Ferrando.]]

=Other=
== M18A1 Claymore ==

[[M18A1 Claymore|M18A1 Claymores]] are mounted on the barricades as part of the Marine roadblock at Al-Hayy in Episode 4.

[[Image:M18a1 07.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[M18A1 Claymore]] anti-personnel mine]]
[[Image:Genkill claymore.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Christopher Holsey sets a claymore on some concertina wire at a roadblock.]]

== Recoiless Rifles ==

After the recon Marines successfully capture a strategic bridge in Episode 5, the surrendering Syrian irregulars can be seen abandoning recoiless rifles and heavy mortars.

[[Image:Genkill rr.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

[[Category:Television]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:HBO]]
[[Category:Mini-Series]]

Talk:Generation Kill

2011-02-04T14:06:49Z

Scarecrow: /* MK-19 AGL */

[[Image:GenerationKill2.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]]

==Discussion==
In the book, evan wright mentions benelli shotguns being used by officers

:Sure but in the series, we don't see any. Did see a shotgun carried by the Iraqi translator.

There is a Major in the series who carries a shotgun with him (Nate Fick's book refers to him as "Major Benelli") though from the looks of it it doesn't look like a Benelli. The PALS webbing on his body armor has shotgun shells stowed in them.

:I just finished watching this whole series. I feel that it was a day well spent-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:58, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
==The quality of the screencaps==
Is it just me or are the quality of the screencaps in this page really low quality?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:05, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

==PVS-17 in daylight?==
Maybe someone could enlighten me as to why a '''night sight''' is shown being used in broad daylight? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:50, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

he switches it of you can see in screewby he switches it one again at night most of the time it isn't shown when he does that, I bet he didn't have another scope to mount so he just used it switched of

the scope can be used during the day or night. If you notice the cover on the lens, it has a small hole in it, this allows a small amount of light into the unit if the cover was removed during the day time it would danage the scope. At night the lens cap is removed .

Actually the scope Colbert uses in the series is just a prop, and doesn't quite look like a AN/PVS-17.

i recently bought the book after watching the series and love them both. in the middle of the book it has a series of pictures in cluding thereal brad colbert with an M4 with M203 and night-vision scope. the same setup his M4 has in the series and many other soldiers have the same setup aswell [[user:smish34|smish34]]

-Real operators used NV scopes in broad daylight because they can see their AN/PEQs laser (you know, those infrared aiming devices). I assumed it'll be the most logical answer there is. Oh well, just sharing my mind right now... [TeeKev]

==Older Teardrop Forward Assists on m4 Carbines?==
What's up with that? I don't think Colt ever made m4s with anything but the newer round style forward assist.

- maybe an airsoft replica? i read a discussion on an airsoft board where they claimed they could read Classic Army designations on the guns in some scenes (then there was a flamewar about it...)

::It's possible that they may have used some airsoft M4s for the ''non-firing'' scenes, but I would never take the airsoft community's word for it. Airsofters tend to be full of crap and think that ''every'' movie uses airsoft guns and CGI muzzle flashes (because most of them don't appreciate how much more expensive and unrealistic CGI is for creating muzzle flashes...it's actually cheaper to use the real thing and blanks).

::Anyway, it is kind of strange that the M4s in this movie have the teardrop forward assist, but it's fairly easy to replace forward assists on AR upper receiver units. I've seen pictures of M16A1s with the round forward assist (even though Colt only made them with teardrop) and M16A2s with the teardrop forward assist (in fact, many of Colt's early AR-15 A2 uppers had the teardrop style). It's possible that whatever armorer supplied the weapons for this movie just happened to have an abundance of teardrop forward assists in inventory, but it certainly doesn't mean the weapons are airsoft. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:47, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

:I actually never paid too much attention to the forward assist and never knew about the different styles, [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::I did notice a Classic Army airsoft M4 in one scene of Episode 4 (been seeing a lot of those in movies/TV recently, i.e. ''[[The Hurt Locker]]''). But most of the M4s on this show are real guns; the teardrop forward assist is something that can be replaced in maintenance. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:19, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

== M733? ==

That barrel looks a bit long to be an M733 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

I think it is an M733, the picture is low quality which (combined with the motion blur of the scene) makes it hard to distinguish where the barrel ends and the flash hider begins, thus making the barrel appear longer. Then again I'm no expert on AR variants, so take that for what you will. If anyone with a higher quality image (or more knowledge on ARs than I) could confirm/correct the entry, that would be great.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 23:14, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Colt Model 733.jpg‎|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 733 SMG - 5.56x45mm. It should be noted this is actually an M16A1 upper used to build a mock up of a 733 for films.]]
[[Image:GKC15A.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Another view of the Marine's Colt 733.]]
Look at the length of the handguards, it's not a shorty. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:GKC15B.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The Marine not wearing his helmet carries the Colt 733.]]

Okay, anybody have any ideas as to what it is then?--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 21:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Hard to say. Barrel length looks longer than a 733, but the handguards look too long to make it a 723. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:53, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
:No, look at the forward assist. Its an MGC replica. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

== Good caps, guys ==
Whoever capped this should be commended. Really good shots, not too many, not too few. They also LOOK really good.-protoAuthor 21:22, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
*The user who uploaded those screencaps was [[User:Ben41|Ben41]]. You may congratulate him for that. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 22:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

==PEQ-IV==

Does anyone know if the AN/PEQ-IV (the type of laser aiming module seen on many of the Marines' M4s in this series) is actually used by any service in real life? I've only ever seen airsofters (who can't afford PEQ-2s) using them. I didn't think the PEQ-IV was considered mil-spec equipment. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:06, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

-It's actually AN/P'''A'''Q-IV, but yes it is mil-spec and was widely used by the USMC in the earlier stages of the Iraq War.
However they are technically inaccurate to Force Recon, who make use of the SOPMOD package for their M4/M16's, which includes the
AN/PEQ-2, not the PAQ-4.

::Thanks for the info. I just did some more reading, and it turns out that the Recon Marines were using the PAC-4/C literally right up until the invasion when they started getting the PEC-2s. Also, I notice that in the images of 1st Recon that appear in the book ''Generation Kill'', several of the Marines do in fact have PEC-2s on their M4s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:58, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

== M-136 use. ==

One can be seen being used in the Johnny cash montage at the ending. An M-240 can be seen being used also.

==the M4s in this show==

Here is a Blu-Ray image of Sgt. Colbert with his M4 in the last episode of the series:

[[Image:GK1.7-M4-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''(Enlarge this to full-size by clicking twice on it)''']]

All of the M4s in this show appear to be fitted with accessories that are not mil-specification. Some questions I have:

(1.) What brand lower receiver is Colbert's M4 built upon? It doesn't seem to be Colt; the markings on the magazine well look wrong. Anyone have any thoughts on who manufactured these lowers? (we've already pointed out that the uppers have the older teardrop forward assist; maybe the maker of the uppers is the same as lowers)

(2.) Contrary to what the page says, none of the firing M4s in the show are fitted with Knight's Armament RAS forearms (although the airsoft Classic Army M4s that are used as non-firing stand-ins do have KAC). You can see that the forearms have four wide air slits, rather than seven circular holes (as on KAC forearms), so they must be some other brand. Can anyone tell me what?

(3.) Sgt. Rudy Reyes also has a vertical foregrip on his M4 that does not seem to be either KAC or ERGO (again, contrary to the page). Any thoughts on the brand?

-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

The rail covers on the rails in the above screen cap are UTG, I am not sure of the rail system itself though. It is possible they used UTG rails for filming even on the firing rifles.

:Yep, you are correct. Both the rail forearms and the rail covers are made by UTG. It also looks like the rubber pistol grips on many of the M4s, as well as Sgt. Reyes' vertical foregrip, also were made by UTG. Apparently, the show's armorers really like UTG accessories for some reason. Nice catch, thanks! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:15, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

== MK-19 AGL ==

The screen cap labeled "MK19 AGL disassembled" is incorrect. The weapon is fully assembled in that cap, but not mounted.
:agreed, just removed from the mounts, i'l make the change, if theres someone that has used a MK,19 and can say its disassembled then go ahead and change it back. also if there is any guys that have used a MK:19 the series portrays it as a half decent weapon that jams every time its used, i wouldn't mind hearing a comment from a present/past user of one [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 14:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Half-Life 2

2011-02-04T13:32:39Z

Scarecrow: /* MP7 */

Matty, i hope you don't mind my edit to make this article live up to the sites standards. - [[User:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]

FYI, none of the weapons other then Grigori's rifle are human made. They are all designed and produced by Combine Magick. [[Special:Contributions/85.108.93.236|85.108.93.236]] 21:49, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, most of the combine's tech is human made. If it isn't their black metal, dark energy or alive, it's human-made.--[[Special:Contributions/69.122.209.65|69.122.209.65]] 10:36, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

They are based on human design and possibly produced in converted factories of their respective real life brands, but still they are not the same since whole premise of the game is having human armies dismantled in 7 hours. Sure probably some gutted and amputated human slave worked on said factories :P [[Special:Contributions/78.176.98.75|78.176.98.75]] 00:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Introduction ==

Hey there Everybody im further here and lawful figured it make known myself in preference to i jumped into any conversations.
has anyone noticed alyx has an unknown pistol. its not usp match or the revolver. its black and has cream coloured grips

its a glock17 modified to be fully automatic
i have a bunch of pics and its not a glock

-suggestion-
alyx's gun looks (to me) like a modified version of this little-known gun: http://www.fsdip.com/website/VBRBelgiumHome/English/ThePDW792VBRBCompact/tabid/190/Default.aspx the VBR Belgium PDW.

itdoeslokmlike it. i have updated the page with alyxsgun and the gravity gun [[user:smish34|smish34]]

Alyx's gun probably isn't based on anything. [[user:jackbel|jackbel]]

== How-to get father grigorys shotgun ==

i have found a foolproof way of getting the prized shotgun of father grigory. i know thismight get deleted and isnt of any significance but i thought i would put it her anyway.
ok first of all start the chapter @''we dont go to ravenholm''
make sure you keep spare magnum rounds. at least 3.
play though the level normally untill you get to the part where you first meet the dreaded 'fast zombies'. kill the zombie and instead of going up through the building where you meet father grigory at the top, go down the small steps untill you get below the water tower. dispose of thezombies and headcrabs. then look upwards and you will see the small platform where grigory is. if you zoom you will see the Spas-12 and the annabelle shotguns. get out your magnum and shoot the Spas-12. it should fly upinto the air either off of the map or down to where you are standing. go grab the spas-12 if it is in the vicinity. now look up again and only the annabelle should be there. now continue up through the building to the top, but be carful out side on the roof thereis a fast zombie waiting for you, instead of running over the opposite roof. then go to where father grigory speaks. instead of holding the spas-12 he will have the annabelle. a wierd animation glitch will occour, but then he will throw you the gun. but...there is always a but. it doesnt look like the annabelle. itwill look exactly the same as the Spas-12 butit will only fire 2 375. magnum rounds. these rounds are very very powerful and accurate, it is verysimilarto howthe revolver works. i have also found a glitch tofire this sort-of fully automatic. when fireing hold down the reload button and the fire button at the same time. all of the rounds will fire with quick succession very usefull for taking down a harder enemy. it is a worth while gun to get. this isnt a hack, cheat or a mod. the gun appears underneath the gravity gun and has the lable 'SHOTGUN'
thanks for reading i hope this is useful [[user:smish34|smish34]] 22.50 gmt-0 05/01/2010

EDIT:sorry but this is only available on the XBOX version of the game, not on orange box andunknown for PC [[user:smish34|smish34]]

well, you CAN get it for PC, you just need console commands.

Well then,it works for me!--[[User:Pump Shotty Justice|Pump_Shotty_Justice]] 02:42, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
what console/platform are you on? [[user:smish34|smish34]]
I found that when you have annabelle you can't access the Overwatch rifle (forgot the name) unless annabelle is empty.--[[Special:Contributions/66.30.50.180|66.30.50.180]] 23:21, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Or you could just turn down the gravity (I've only played it on PC). - [[User:Aml1989|Aml1989]] 14:29, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

== Python issue ==
I've looked at the game's textures, and .357's texture seems to actually be that of a Colt Anaconda, as noted by the name appearing on the side of the barrel, at least on the world model.-protoAuthor 00:20, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

== XM29 ==

Funny story...I remember how, before the game was released, the DoD announced that it would not pursue further development on the XM29 because the damn thing was too huge and cost too much. On Gamespy's Planet Half-Life message board, somebody posted the article, and we all wondered if the cancellation of the XM29 meant that it would also be replaced in ''[[Half-Life 2]]''. Sure enough, the first in-game images of the Combine Pulse Rifle started showing up a few months later. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:09, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Damn good thing I added the OICW back in. I hated the fact that they cut it, so porting it over from Missing Information was my only choice. --[[User:GamerfreakB7|GamerfreakB7]]--

== Is it possible to convert the SPAS-12's tube magazine into another barrel? ==

I know you would have to remove the pump mechanism and modify it heavily, but is it at all possible? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:11, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

:Giving a SPAS-12 a barrel instead of a tube magazine would just make it an under and over shotgun with a strange and pointless foregrip. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 18:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

So it is possible? Alright thanks [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:34, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Alyx Gun ==

[[image:alyx_gun.jpg.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

It looks like a [[Beretta 93R]] with a barrel cover, just like the gun in [[Robocop]]. -- Teslashark

Looks more like some MP7/Glock hybrid to me... -[[User:GamerfreakB7|GamerfreakB7]]-

Its not based on anything, its most likely just fictional [[User:Jackbel]]

Knowing Alyx,she probably took a Glock and customized it. like adding a hood to the barrel, and extending the mag.

It looks like it has 1911 grips. --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] 16:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Other weapons ==

===Alyx Vance's pistol===
The pistol used by Alyx Vance in HL2 and its following episodes although it functions somewhat like a Glock 18, or a Beretta 93R. It has no name other than 'Alyx gun' and is usually fired in a 3 round burst fire mode by Alyx

Originally it had the ability to change into a rifle/carbine in the beta (hence the built-in rifle buttstock on the end of it) and strangely features no gun sights whatsoever on it which would make accurately shooting with it at a distance greater than 10 feet away nearly impossible in either configuration. While this feature was cut, the animations can still be found in the game's files.

While not intended to be used by the player, PC players can use the code "give weapon_alyxgun" to acquire it. The weapon lacks a viewmodel (it uses the world model, as evidenced by changing the "viewmodel_fov" with a higher increment than the default), but a viewmodel can be found [http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/78671 here]. The weapon has a 30 round magazine and can switch between fully automatic and semi automatic modes (the semi auto animation looks like a 3-round-burst, but still only fires 1 shot).
[[image:Alyx_Gun_model.jpg|thumb|none|250px]]
[[image:alyx_gun.jpg.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

=== Overwatch Standard Issue Pulse Rifle (AKA OSIPR or AR2) ===
This is a fictional weapon mainly used by the Combine. It fires powerful Pulse Energy rounds from a 30 round "mag" (Pulse plug.) Its secondary fire mode is a Dark Energy Orb Launcher, which launches orbs of Dark Energy that can disintegrate most things.

The rifle has an interesting loading system. It has 3 slots for carrying pulse plugs (only 3 can be carried at a time.) When one plug is spent, the rifle automatically reloads, switching to the next slot. As for Dark Energy Orbs, three can be carried at a time as well, and it is not shown how it is loaded into the rifle.

The AR2 has insane recoil when firing, and should be fired in short bursts.

[[Image:OSIPR.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The OSIPR]]
[[Image:AR2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AR2 at the beginning of the chapter "Highway 17".]]

=== Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator (AKA The Gravity Gun) ===
Although not a gun, nor is it real, but it is important and an iconic piece of equipment. Gordon first gets it during the 'Black Mesa East' level. it was designed by Eli Vance and used for heavy lifting and can push and pull objects. In the Citadel, during the last levels of HL2 and the first levels of HL2 Episode 1 it is infused with Combine energy and can be used to push and pull combine soldiers. In HL2 Episode 2 Dr. Magnusson designs ammo for it and can take down Striders with ease.

[[image:grabgun3.jpg|none|thumb|250px]]
[[image:grabgun4.jpg|none|thumb|600px|Alyx hands Gordon the Gravity Gun in "Black Mesa East".]]
[[image:grabgun2.jpg|none|thumb|600px| The normal gravity gun in the chapter "Highway 17".]]
[[image:grabgun1.jpg|none|thumb|600px|The Super Gravity Gun, with the added ability of manipulating bodies. ]]

== MP7 ==

The MP7 in game is actually modeled after the HK PDW (MP7 prototype) not an MP7A1, check it out. [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88:mp7&catid=9:the-submachine-guns&Itemid=5/ link] Do we have any pictures of the HK PDW/MP7 prototype on this site?

we do, from "stealth" but i cant remember and photos of the prototype, but there is no major diffrences between the A1 and the proptype apart from i think it was the butt stock cap and the PDW has 3 slits near the barrel [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Dude! Did you even look at my link? There are a lot of differences between the MP7 prototype and MP7A1! Look at the pictures of them side by side. Good god man, What the heck are you even doing on this site if can't tell two weapons apart, lol. Look at the v_model in-game and the HK PDW, except for the game version having a shorter butt stock and no cocking-handle, their identical. Valve was working on this game since 2000 if I remember right, and back then they only had pics of the prototype, there were pretty much no pics of the production MP7 and the MP7A1 model hasn't even come out yet. And you know developers usually make a model early on in development and stick with it till they finish the game. The current SMG model in the game has been around since the 2002 beta vids.

The description below the MP7 on the main HL2 page says the model of the MP7 is wrong because there is no mounted grenade launcher on it. That is true but if you look closely you will see that it has two barrels. Maybe the lower one is for the grenades... (Maybe I should not write this here, sorry I am relatively new to the site.) --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 21:44, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

sorry capped net :( it didn't load till after i had posted, 99% chance its a prototype model (no matter what it is it will never have a integrated grenade launcher) [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 23:57, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Half-Life 2

2011-02-04T12:34:34Z

Scarecrow: /* MP7 */

Matty, i hope you don't mind my edit to make this article live up to the sites standards. - [[User:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]

FYI, none of the weapons other then Grigori's rifle are human made. They are all designed and produced by Combine Magick. [[Special:Contributions/85.108.93.236|85.108.93.236]] 21:49, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, most of the combine's tech is human made. If it isn't their black metal, dark energy or alive, it's human-made.--[[Special:Contributions/69.122.209.65|69.122.209.65]] 10:36, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

They are based on human design and possibly produced in converted factories of their respective real life brands, but still they are not the same since whole premise of the game is having human armies dismantled in 7 hours. Sure probably some gutted and amputated human slave worked on said factories :P [[Special:Contributions/78.176.98.75|78.176.98.75]] 00:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Introduction ==

Hey there Everybody im further here and lawful figured it make known myself in preference to i jumped into any conversations.
has anyone noticed alyx has an unknown pistol. its not usp match or the revolver. its black and has cream coloured grips

its a glock17 modified to be fully automatic
i have a bunch of pics and its not a glock

-suggestion-
alyx's gun looks (to me) like a modified version of this little-known gun: http://www.fsdip.com/website/VBRBelgiumHome/English/ThePDW792VBRBCompact/tabid/190/Default.aspx the VBR Belgium PDW.

itdoeslokmlike it. i have updated the page with alyxsgun and the gravity gun [[user:smish34|smish34]]

Alyx's gun probably isn't based on anything. [[user:jackbel|jackbel]]

== How-to get father grigorys shotgun ==

i have found a foolproof way of getting the prized shotgun of father grigory. i know thismight get deleted and isnt of any significance but i thought i would put it her anyway.
ok first of all start the chapter @''we dont go to ravenholm''
make sure you keep spare magnum rounds. at least 3.
play though the level normally untill you get to the part where you first meet the dreaded 'fast zombies'. kill the zombie and instead of going up through the building where you meet father grigory at the top, go down the small steps untill you get below the water tower. dispose of thezombies and headcrabs. then look upwards and you will see the small platform where grigory is. if you zoom you will see the Spas-12 and the annabelle shotguns. get out your magnum and shoot the Spas-12. it should fly upinto the air either off of the map or down to where you are standing. go grab the spas-12 if it is in the vicinity. now look up again and only the annabelle should be there. now continue up through the building to the top, but be carful out side on the roof thereis a fast zombie waiting for you, instead of running over the opposite roof. then go to where father grigory speaks. instead of holding the spas-12 he will have the annabelle. a wierd animation glitch will occour, but then he will throw you the gun. but...there is always a but. it doesnt look like the annabelle. itwill look exactly the same as the Spas-12 butit will only fire 2 375. magnum rounds. these rounds are very very powerful and accurate, it is verysimilarto howthe revolver works. i have also found a glitch tofire this sort-of fully automatic. when fireing hold down the reload button and the fire button at the same time. all of the rounds will fire with quick succession very usefull for taking down a harder enemy. it is a worth while gun to get. this isnt a hack, cheat or a mod. the gun appears underneath the gravity gun and has the lable 'SHOTGUN'
thanks for reading i hope this is useful [[user:smish34|smish34]] 22.50 gmt-0 05/01/2010

EDIT:sorry but this is only available on the XBOX version of the game, not on orange box andunknown for PC [[user:smish34|smish34]]

well, you CAN get it for PC, you just need console commands.

Well then,it works for me!--[[User:Pump Shotty Justice|Pump_Shotty_Justice]] 02:42, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
what console/platform are you on? [[user:smish34|smish34]]
I found that when you have annabelle you can't access the Overwatch rifle (forgot the name) unless annabelle is empty.--[[Special:Contributions/66.30.50.180|66.30.50.180]] 23:21, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Or you could just turn down the gravity (I've only played it on PC). - [[User:Aml1989|Aml1989]] 14:29, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

== Python issue ==
I've looked at the game's textures, and .357's texture seems to actually be that of a Colt Anaconda, as noted by the name appearing on the side of the barrel, at least on the world model.-protoAuthor 00:20, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

== XM29 ==

Funny story...I remember how, before the game was released, the DoD announced that it would not pursue further development on the XM29 because the damn thing was too huge and cost too much. On Gamespy's Planet Half-Life message board, somebody posted the article, and we all wondered if the cancellation of the XM29 meant that it would also be replaced in ''[[Half-Life 2]]''. Sure enough, the first in-game images of the Combine Pulse Rifle started showing up a few months later. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:09, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Damn good thing I added the OICW back in. I hated the fact that they cut it, so porting it over from Missing Information was my only choice. --[[User:GamerfreakB7|GamerfreakB7]]--

== Is it possible to convert the SPAS-12's tube magazine into another barrel? ==

I know you would have to remove the pump mechanism and modify it heavily, but is it at all possible? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:11, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

:Giving a SPAS-12 a barrel instead of a tube magazine would just make it an under and over shotgun with a strange and pointless foregrip. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 18:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

So it is possible? Alright thanks [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:34, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Alyx Gun ==

[[image:alyx_gun.jpg.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

It looks like a [[Beretta 93R]] with a barrel cover, just like the gun in [[Robocop]]. -- Teslashark

Looks more like some MP7/Glock hybrid to me... -[[User:GamerfreakB7|GamerfreakB7]]-

Its not based on anything, its most likely just fictional [[User:Jackbel]]

Knowing Alyx,she probably took a Glock and customized it. like adding a hood to the barrel, and extending the mag.

It looks like it has 1911 grips. --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] 16:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Other weapons ==

===Alyx Vance's pistol===
The pistol used by Alyx Vance in HL2 and its following episodes although it functions somewhat like a Glock 18, or a Beretta 93R. It has no name other than 'Alyx gun' and is usually fired in a 3 round burst fire mode by Alyx

Originally it had the ability to change into a rifle/carbine in the beta (hence the built-in rifle buttstock on the end of it) and strangely features no gun sights whatsoever on it which would make accurately shooting with it at a distance greater than 10 feet away nearly impossible in either configuration. While this feature was cut, the animations can still be found in the game's files.

While not intended to be used by the player, PC players can use the code "give weapon_alyxgun" to acquire it. The weapon lacks a viewmodel (it uses the world model, as evidenced by changing the "viewmodel_fov" with a higher increment than the default), but a viewmodel can be found [http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/78671 here]. The weapon has a 30 round magazine and can switch between fully automatic and semi automatic modes (the semi auto animation looks like a 3-round-burst, but still only fires 1 shot).
[[image:Alyx_Gun_model.jpg|thumb|none|250px]]
[[image:alyx_gun.jpg.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

=== Overwatch Standard Issue Pulse Rifle (AKA OSIPR or AR2) ===
This is a fictional weapon mainly used by the Combine. It fires powerful Pulse Energy rounds from a 30 round "mag" (Pulse plug.) Its secondary fire mode is a Dark Energy Orb Launcher, which launches orbs of Dark Energy that can disintegrate most things.

The rifle has an interesting loading system. It has 3 slots for carrying pulse plugs (only 3 can be carried at a time.) When one plug is spent, the rifle automatically reloads, switching to the next slot. As for Dark Energy Orbs, three can be carried at a time as well, and it is not shown how it is loaded into the rifle.

The AR2 has insane recoil when firing, and should be fired in short bursts.

[[Image:OSIPR.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The OSIPR]]
[[Image:AR2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AR2 at the beginning of the chapter "Highway 17".]]

=== Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator (AKA The Gravity Gun) ===
Although not a gun, nor is it real, but it is important and an iconic piece of equipment. Gordon first gets it during the 'Black Mesa East' level. it was designed by Eli Vance and used for heavy lifting and can push and pull objects. In the Citadel, during the last levels of HL2 and the first levels of HL2 Episode 1 it is infused with Combine energy and can be used to push and pull combine soldiers. In HL2 Episode 2 Dr. Magnusson designs ammo for it and can take down Striders with ease.

[[image:grabgun3.jpg|none|thumb|250px]]
[[image:grabgun4.jpg|none|thumb|600px|Alyx hands Gordon the Gravity Gun in "Black Mesa East".]]
[[image:grabgun2.jpg|none|thumb|600px| The normal gravity gun in the chapter "Highway 17".]]
[[image:grabgun1.jpg|none|thumb|600px|The Super Gravity Gun, with the added ability of manipulating bodies. ]]

== MP7 ==

The MP7 in game is actually modeled after the HK PDW (MP7 prototype) not an MP7A1, check it out. [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88:mp7&catid=9:the-submachine-guns&Itemid=5/ link] Do we have any pictures of the HK PDW/MP7 prototype on this site?

I just book marked your blog on Digg and StumbleUpon.I enjoy reading your commentaries.

we do, from "stealth" but i cant remember and photos of the prototype, but there is no major diffrences between the A1 and the proptype apart from i think it was the butt stock cap and the PDW has 3 slits near the barrel [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Dude! Did you even look at my link? There are a lot of differences between the MP7 prototype and MP7A1! Look at the pictures of them side by side. Good god man, What the heck are you even doing on this site if can't tell two weapons apart, lol. Look at the v_model in-game and the HK PDW, except for the game version having a shorter butt stock and no cocking-handle, their identical. Valve was working on this game since 2000 if I remember right, and back then they only had pics of the prototype, there were pretty much no pics of the production MP7 and the MP7A1 model hasn't even come out yet. And you know developers usually make a model early on in development and stick with it till they finish the game. The current SMG model in the game has been around since the 2002 beta vids.

The description below the MP7 on the main HL2 page says the model of the MP7 is wrong because there is no mounted grenade launcher on it. That is true but if you look closely you will see that it has two barrels. Maybe the lower one is for the grenades... (Maybe I should not write this here, sorry I am relatively new to the site.) --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 21:44, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

sorry capped net :( it didn't load till after i had posted, 99% chance its a prototype model (no matter what it is it will never have a integrated grenade launcher) [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 23:57, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I just sent this post to a bunch of my friends as I agree with most of what you’re saying here and the way you’ve presented it is awesome.
:okay...then [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 12:33, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Half-Life 2

2011-02-04T12:33:19Z

Scarecrow: /* MP7 */

Matty, i hope you don't mind my edit to make this article live up to the sites standards. - [[User:Flying Dane|Flying Dane]]

FYI, none of the weapons other then Grigori's rifle are human made. They are all designed and produced by Combine Magick. [[Special:Contributions/85.108.93.236|85.108.93.236]] 21:49, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, most of the combine's tech is human made. If it isn't their black metal, dark energy or alive, it's human-made.--[[Special:Contributions/69.122.209.65|69.122.209.65]] 10:36, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

They are based on human design and possibly produced in converted factories of their respective real life brands, but still they are not the same since whole premise of the game is having human armies dismantled in 7 hours. Sure probably some gutted and amputated human slave worked on said factories :P [[Special:Contributions/78.176.98.75|78.176.98.75]] 00:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Introduction ==

Hey there Everybody im further here and lawful figured it make known myself in preference to i jumped into any conversations.
has anyone noticed alyx has an unknown pistol. its not usp match or the revolver. its black and has cream coloured grips

its a glock17 modified to be fully automatic
i have a bunch of pics and its not a glock

-suggestion-
alyx's gun looks (to me) like a modified version of this little-known gun: http://www.fsdip.com/website/VBRBelgiumHome/English/ThePDW792VBRBCompact/tabid/190/Default.aspx the VBR Belgium PDW.

itdoeslokmlike it. i have updated the page with alyxsgun and the gravity gun [[user:smish34|smish34]]

Alyx's gun probably isn't based on anything. [[user:jackbel|jackbel]]

== How-to get father grigorys shotgun ==

i have found a foolproof way of getting the prized shotgun of father grigory. i know thismight get deleted and isnt of any significance but i thought i would put it her anyway.
ok first of all start the chapter @''we dont go to ravenholm''
make sure you keep spare magnum rounds. at least 3.
play though the level normally untill you get to the part where you first meet the dreaded 'fast zombies'. kill the zombie and instead of going up through the building where you meet father grigory at the top, go down the small steps untill you get below the water tower. dispose of thezombies and headcrabs. then look upwards and you will see the small platform where grigory is. if you zoom you will see the Spas-12 and the annabelle shotguns. get out your magnum and shoot the Spas-12. it should fly upinto the air either off of the map or down to where you are standing. go grab the spas-12 if it is in the vicinity. now look up again and only the annabelle should be there. now continue up through the building to the top, but be carful out side on the roof thereis a fast zombie waiting for you, instead of running over the opposite roof. then go to where father grigory speaks. instead of holding the spas-12 he will have the annabelle. a wierd animation glitch will occour, but then he will throw you the gun. but...there is always a but. it doesnt look like the annabelle. itwill look exactly the same as the Spas-12 butit will only fire 2 375. magnum rounds. these rounds are very very powerful and accurate, it is verysimilarto howthe revolver works. i have also found a glitch tofire this sort-of fully automatic. when fireing hold down the reload button and the fire button at the same time. all of the rounds will fire with quick succession very usefull for taking down a harder enemy. it is a worth while gun to get. this isnt a hack, cheat or a mod. the gun appears underneath the gravity gun and has the lable 'SHOTGUN'
thanks for reading i hope this is useful [[user:smish34|smish34]] 22.50 gmt-0 05/01/2010

EDIT:sorry but this is only available on the XBOX version of the game, not on orange box andunknown for PC [[user:smish34|smish34]]

well, you CAN get it for PC, you just need console commands.

Well then,it works for me!--[[User:Pump Shotty Justice|Pump_Shotty_Justice]] 02:42, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
what console/platform are you on? [[user:smish34|smish34]]
I found that when you have annabelle you can't access the Overwatch rifle (forgot the name) unless annabelle is empty.--[[Special:Contributions/66.30.50.180|66.30.50.180]] 23:21, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Or you could just turn down the gravity (I've only played it on PC). - [[User:Aml1989|Aml1989]] 14:29, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

== Python issue ==
I've looked at the game's textures, and .357's texture seems to actually be that of a Colt Anaconda, as noted by the name appearing on the side of the barrel, at least on the world model.-protoAuthor 00:20, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

== XM29 ==

Funny story...I remember how, before the game was released, the DoD announced that it would not pursue further development on the XM29 because the damn thing was too huge and cost too much. On Gamespy's Planet Half-Life message board, somebody posted the article, and we all wondered if the cancellation of the XM29 meant that it would also be replaced in ''[[Half-Life 2]]''. Sure enough, the first in-game images of the Combine Pulse Rifle started showing up a few months later. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:09, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Damn good thing I added the OICW back in. I hated the fact that they cut it, so porting it over from Missing Information was my only choice. --[[User:GamerfreakB7|GamerfreakB7]]--

== Is it possible to convert the SPAS-12's tube magazine into another barrel? ==

I know you would have to remove the pump mechanism and modify it heavily, but is it at all possible? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:11, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

:Giving a SPAS-12 a barrel instead of a tube magazine would just make it an under and over shotgun with a strange and pointless foregrip. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 18:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

So it is possible? Alright thanks [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:34, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Alyx Gun ==

[[image:alyx_gun.jpg.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

It looks like a [[Beretta 93R]] with a barrel cover, just like the gun in [[Robocop]]. -- Teslashark

Looks more like some MP7/Glock hybrid to me... -[[User:GamerfreakB7|GamerfreakB7]]-

Its not based on anything, its most likely just fictional [[User:Jackbel]]

Knowing Alyx,she probably took a Glock and customized it. like adding a hood to the barrel, and extending the mag.

It looks like it has 1911 grips. --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] 16:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

== Other weapons ==

===Alyx Vance's pistol===
The pistol used by Alyx Vance in HL2 and its following episodes although it functions somewhat like a Glock 18, or a Beretta 93R. It has no name other than 'Alyx gun' and is usually fired in a 3 round burst fire mode by Alyx

Originally it had the ability to change into a rifle/carbine in the beta (hence the built-in rifle buttstock on the end of it) and strangely features no gun sights whatsoever on it which would make accurately shooting with it at a distance greater than 10 feet away nearly impossible in either configuration. While this feature was cut, the animations can still be found in the game's files.

While not intended to be used by the player, PC players can use the code "give weapon_alyxgun" to acquire it. The weapon lacks a viewmodel (it uses the world model, as evidenced by changing the "viewmodel_fov" with a higher increment than the default), but a viewmodel can be found [http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/78671 here]. The weapon has a 30 round magazine and can switch between fully automatic and semi automatic modes (the semi auto animation looks like a 3-round-burst, but still only fires 1 shot).
[[image:Alyx_Gun_model.jpg|thumb|none|250px]]
[[image:alyx_gun.jpg.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

=== Overwatch Standard Issue Pulse Rifle (AKA OSIPR or AR2) ===
This is a fictional weapon mainly used by the Combine. It fires powerful Pulse Energy rounds from a 30 round "mag" (Pulse plug.) Its secondary fire mode is a Dark Energy Orb Launcher, which launches orbs of Dark Energy that can disintegrate most things.

The rifle has an interesting loading system. It has 3 slots for carrying pulse plugs (only 3 can be carried at a time.) When one plug is spent, the rifle automatically reloads, switching to the next slot. As for Dark Energy Orbs, three can be carried at a time as well, and it is not shown how it is loaded into the rifle.

The AR2 has insane recoil when firing, and should be fired in short bursts.

[[Image:OSIPR.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The OSIPR]]
[[Image:AR2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AR2 at the beginning of the chapter "Highway 17".]]

=== Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator (AKA The Gravity Gun) ===
Although not a gun, nor is it real, but it is important and an iconic piece of equipment. Gordon first gets it during the 'Black Mesa East' level. it was designed by Eli Vance and used for heavy lifting and can push and pull objects. In the Citadel, during the last levels of HL2 and the first levels of HL2 Episode 1 it is infused with Combine energy and can be used to push and pull combine soldiers. In HL2 Episode 2 Dr. Magnusson designs ammo for it and can take down Striders with ease.

[[image:grabgun3.jpg|none|thumb|250px]]
[[image:grabgun4.jpg|none|thumb|600px|Alyx hands Gordon the Gravity Gun in "Black Mesa East".]]
[[image:grabgun2.jpg|none|thumb|600px| The normal gravity gun in the chapter "Highway 17".]]
[[image:grabgun1.jpg|none|thumb|600px|The Super Gravity Gun, with the added ability of manipulating bodies. ]]

== MP7 ==

The MP7 in game is actually modeled after the HK PDW (MP7 prototype) not an MP7A1, check it out. [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88:mp7&catid=9:the-submachine-guns&Itemid=5/ link] Do we have any pictures of the HK PDW/MP7 prototype on this site?

I just book marked your blog on Digg and StumbleUpon.I enjoy reading your commentaries.

we do, from "stealth" but i cant remember and photos of the prototype, but there is no major diffrences between the A1 and the proptype apart from i think it was the butt stock cap and the PDW has 3 slits near the barrel [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 11:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Dude! Did you even look at my link? There are a lot of differences between the MP7 prototype and MP7A1! Look at the pictures of them side by side. Good god man, What the heck are you even doing on this site if can't tell two weapons apart, lol. Look at the v_model in-game and the HK PDW, except for the game version having a shorter butt stock and no cocking-handle, their identical. Valve was working on this game since 2000 if I remember right, and back then they only had pics of the prototype, there were pretty much no pics of the production MP7 and the MP7A1 model hasn't even come out yet. And you know developers usually make a model early on in development and stick with it till they finish the game. The current SMG model in the game has been around since the 2002 beta vids.

The description below the MP7 on the main HL2 page says the model of the MP7 is wrong because there is no mounted grenade launcher on it. That is true but if you look closely you will see that it has two barrels. Maybe the lower one is for the grenades... (Maybe I should not write this here, sorry I am relatively new to the site.) --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 21:44, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

sorry capped net :( it didn't load till after i had posted, 99% chance its a prototype model (no matter what it is it will never have a integrated grenade launcher) [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 23:57, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I just sent this post to a bunch of my friends as I agree with most of what you’re saying here and the way you’ve presented it is awesome.

okay...then [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 12:33, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Splinter Cell: Conviction

2011-02-04T12:26:12Z

Scarecrow: /* People Please */

== Gameplay ==
is it just me or has sam fisher rapidly turned younger since double agent--[[Special:Contributions/92.0.235.181|92.0.235.181]] 10:42, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

It's not just you, Sam has changed and not in a good way. The new development team have thrown the traditional Tom Clancy values out the window in favour of a more Hollywood-style approach. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 14:41, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

i played the demo and really didnt like the new direction.it was challenging aiming for thehead from a shadowy position but now all you have to do is press RB and y and it selects the targets and kills them. not stealthy.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
:Not true. The old games' aiming system was terrible. You could have a perfect shot set up and still miss. Plus, M&E requires a hand-to-hand takedown. The demo was set up to give you them, but the full game will have different layouts and more hostiles. Plus, M&E still requires you to know what you're doing; taking down people in plain view/well-lit areas will result in you getting spotted or alerting the guards. Finally, the best argument: "You don't have to use it." --Chris_Hun7er 02:15, 26 March, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I'll jump in. I won't comment on much of the gameplay, save to say that I like some things and dislike others but ultimately I can't change any of it. What I want to ask is if anybody else can't stand the way they tilt their guns diagonally. I mean, it looks kind of cool in that it's different and supposedly done by the best of the best, but after holding a gun that way it's just distracting to see it because I can't imagine shooting very accurately like that. -- ZG
:Look up Center Axis Relock. It is a shooting style that basically allows you to put a lot of lead downrange in a short amount of time and to keep possession of your handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc. in CQC. Not exactly helpful in SCC, but it's a real shooting style. --Chris_Hun7er 06:30, 29 March, 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks so much for the info, Chris. I feel like such an idiot now. If I'd just watched the developer diary I wouldn't have had to ask about it. Been checking out the CAR system, seems a little strange to me, but I can be a purist in many ways sometimes. Guess I'd have to try it to see if it helps throw lead faster. -- ZG

"You don't have to use it!" is the worst argument I've ever heard.

''Splinter Cell: Conviction'' is a huge failure and a disgrace to the Tom Clancy name. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 13:35, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Tom Clancy has absolutely nothing to do with these games, y'know. It's a brand, it's slapped on there so more people buy it. As for the change in this game's content, blame the new content director they brought in, who was dissatisfied with Sam being so old and slow, and wanted the game to go faster. Also blame the consumer who got their panties in a bunch over the original concept and not wanting they're precious Sam Fisher to have a goddamn beard and some hair.

Tom Clancy ''used'' to be involved with these video games, although I don't know where the hell he has been in recent times. Also, ''I do'' blame Creative Director Maxime Béland who thought that Sam was a "grandma" and wanted him to be like James Bond, Jason Bourne, and Jack Bauer who "run fast, they don’t make noise, they kill one, two, three or four guys super quickly". The consumers who didn't like "Hobo Sam" (as dubbed by them) can go #### themselves. After ''Double Agent'', Sam was up the creek without a paddle and on the run from the people he used to work for because they thought he was a terrorist. Sam Fisher was a 53-year-old war veteran and former black ops agent who lost his daughter to a drunk driver and was forced to murder his best friend in order to keep his cover so that he could stop John Brown's Army from unleashing Red Mercury upon America. Now, Ubisoft Montreal have turned him into a Jack Bauer rip-off who can burst into a room and kill four men with headshots from a pistol before their bodies have time to hit the ground. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.52.65|203.206.52.65]] 12:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

==USP==
I was playing the demo on the Xbox 360 and I went into the Options menu and I noticed a H&K USP (Unknown caliber.) (Guy in the background holding it with one hand) Can anyone double check for me? (I don't own a Xbox 360 so I can not confirm it myself but I was playing it at a friend's house.) [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 22:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:It can be the [[Splinter Cell: Conviction#Heckler & Koch Mark 23|Mk 23]], which is based on the [[Heckler & Koch USP]].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

That's what I thought as well. But I didn't see any threaded barrel on it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 10:32, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

:Then it is an USP. We get to see such weapons that are not in the game in the main menu, cover art,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Guys, I was watching a live stream and I can't prove it, but there is a USP. It is under the Desert Eagle (which makes the USP in the lower-right hand corner) in the Weapons Stash and is called the "USP .45" --Chris_Hun7er 07:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

==Five-seveN==
Not referred to as the F.M.P whatever in the game, so I removed that from the subtitle of the in-game picture. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 21:51, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that the "FMP8" was the beta name for the Five-seveN (much like how the "SMG-2" was the pre-release name of the SR-2M Veresk). [[Special:Contributions/124.169.217.190|124.169.217.190]] 04:53, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

==Identifying a handgun featured in a teaser for the '07 build of Splinter Cell: Conviction==
Would someone please be kind enough to identify the pistol that Sam is holding in this picture? It's from the '07 ''Conviction'' build so it's not wiki-worthy, but I am curious to know what it actually is. Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.52.65|203.206.52.65]] 10:35, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6594/ssplintercellconviction.png

:Desert Eagle? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 10:49, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:Profile spells SIG to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:Looks like a Desert Eagle to me. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 14:24, 28 May 2010 (CEST)

:Looks too small to be a Desert Eagle to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda looks like a 1911 to me [[Special:Contributions/208.66.9.130|208.66.9.130]] 00:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for your help people, it is kind of hard to identify the gun from what little we see of it (although I am pretty sure that it is not a IWI Desert Eagle). I was just curious, because concept art of '07 ''ConViction'' depicts Sam holding a Heckler & Koch MP7 personal defense weapon and gameplay of ''ConViction'' displays Sam shooting a hot dog stand with a Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun. I thought that it might have been a Heckler & Koch pistol, although from the wide range of comments it could be almost anything. If anybody else wants to add their own two cents, please do. [[Special:Contributions/124.169.227.214|124.169.227.214]] 02:15, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

== Wierd sight ==

Has anyone else noticed that the 'scope' upgrade on a couple of the weapons (the MP5SD-N1 and G36C if I remember correctly), are really M68 Aimpoints mounted ''backwards''? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 11:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

== People Please==
keep the discussion for the DISCUSSION page, i saw two people venting their input on a promotional posters drawing of the 5-7's caliber, if you wish got go on i will leave it here oh, and I took the chance to cleen up this page. (without deleting anything) [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 12:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

:: Note: If you look at the cover/promotional art for the game, the Five-Seven Sam is holding has a barrel diameter that is way too big for the 5.7mm. It looks more like a a barrel for a .45 acp -Indyfan Its not, its the Poorly rendered muzzle with the slide around it. It isn't made to look like its a .45 ACP.

Talk:Splinter Cell: Conviction

2011-02-04T12:24:52Z

Scarecrow:

== Gameplay ==
is it just me or has sam fisher rapidly turned younger since double agent--[[Special:Contributions/92.0.235.181|92.0.235.181]] 10:42, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

It's not just you, Sam has changed and not in a good way. The new development team have thrown the traditional Tom Clancy values out the window in favour of a more Hollywood-style approach. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 14:41, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

i played the demo and really didnt like the new direction.it was challenging aiming for thehead from a shadowy position but now all you have to do is press RB and y and it selects the targets and kills them. not stealthy.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
:Not true. The old games' aiming system was terrible. You could have a perfect shot set up and still miss. Plus, M&E requires a hand-to-hand takedown. The demo was set up to give you them, but the full game will have different layouts and more hostiles. Plus, M&E still requires you to know what you're doing; taking down people in plain view/well-lit areas will result in you getting spotted or alerting the guards. Finally, the best argument: "You don't have to use it." --Chris_Hun7er 02:15, 26 March, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I'll jump in. I won't comment on much of the gameplay, save to say that I like some things and dislike others but ultimately I can't change any of it. What I want to ask is if anybody else can't stand the way they tilt their guns diagonally. I mean, it looks kind of cool in that it's different and supposedly done by the best of the best, but after holding a gun that way it's just distracting to see it because I can't imagine shooting very accurately like that. -- ZG
:Look up Center Axis Relock. It is a shooting style that basically allows you to put a lot of lead downrange in a short amount of time and to keep possession of your handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc. in CQC. Not exactly helpful in SCC, but it's a real shooting style. --Chris_Hun7er 06:30, 29 March, 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks so much for the info, Chris. I feel like such an idiot now. If I'd just watched the developer diary I wouldn't have had to ask about it. Been checking out the CAR system, seems a little strange to me, but I can be a purist in many ways sometimes. Guess I'd have to try it to see if it helps throw lead faster. -- ZG

"You don't have to use it!" is the worst argument I've ever heard.

''Splinter Cell: Conviction'' is a huge failure and a disgrace to the Tom Clancy name. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 13:35, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Tom Clancy has absolutely nothing to do with these games, y'know. It's a brand, it's slapped on there so more people buy it. As for the change in this game's content, blame the new content director they brought in, who was dissatisfied with Sam being so old and slow, and wanted the game to go faster. Also blame the consumer who got their panties in a bunch over the original concept and not wanting they're precious Sam Fisher to have a goddamn beard and some hair.

Tom Clancy ''used'' to be involved with these video games, although I don't know where the hell he has been in recent times. Also, ''I do'' blame Creative Director Maxime Béland who thought that Sam was a "grandma" and wanted him to be like James Bond, Jason Bourne, and Jack Bauer who "run fast, they don’t make noise, they kill one, two, three or four guys super quickly". The consumers who didn't like "Hobo Sam" (as dubbed by them) can go #### themselves. After ''Double Agent'', Sam was up the creek without a paddle and on the run from the people he used to work for because they thought he was a terrorist. Sam Fisher was a 53-year-old war veteran and former black ops agent who lost his daughter to a drunk driver and was forced to murder his best friend in order to keep his cover so that he could stop John Brown's Army from unleashing Red Mercury upon America. Now, Ubisoft Montreal have turned him into a Jack Bauer rip-off who can burst into a room and kill four men with headshots from a pistol before their bodies have time to hit the ground. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.52.65|203.206.52.65]] 12:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

==USP==
I was playing the demo on the Xbox 360 and I went into the Options menu and I noticed a H&K USP (Unknown caliber.) (Guy in the background holding it with one hand) Can anyone double check for me? (I don't own a Xbox 360 so I can not confirm it myself but I was playing it at a friend's house.) [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 22:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:It can be the [[Splinter Cell: Conviction#Heckler & Koch Mark 23|Mk 23]], which is based on the [[Heckler & Koch USP]].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

That's what I thought as well. But I didn't see any threaded barrel on it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 10:32, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

:Then it is an USP. We get to see such weapons that are not in the game in the main menu, cover art,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Guys, I was watching a live stream and I can't prove it, but there is a USP. It is under the Desert Eagle (which makes the USP in the lower-right hand corner) in the Weapons Stash and is called the "USP .45" --Chris_Hun7er 07:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

==Five-seveN==
Not referred to as the F.M.P whatever in the game, so I removed that from the subtitle of the in-game picture. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 21:51, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that the "FMP8" was the beta name for the Five-seveN (much like how the "SMG-2" was the pre-release name of the SR-2M Veresk). [[Special:Contributions/124.169.217.190|124.169.217.190]] 04:53, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

==Identifying a handgun featured in a teaser for the '07 build of Splinter Cell: Conviction==
Would someone please be kind enough to identify the pistol that Sam is holding in this picture? It's from the '07 ''Conviction'' build so it's not wiki-worthy, but I am curious to know what it actually is. Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.52.65|203.206.52.65]] 10:35, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6594/ssplintercellconviction.png

:Desert Eagle? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 10:49, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:Profile spells SIG to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:Looks like a Desert Eagle to me. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 14:24, 28 May 2010 (CEST)

:Looks too small to be a Desert Eagle to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda looks like a 1911 to me [[Special:Contributions/208.66.9.130|208.66.9.130]] 00:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for your help people, it is kind of hard to identify the gun from what little we see of it (although I am pretty sure that it is not a IWI Desert Eagle). I was just curious, because concept art of '07 ''ConViction'' depicts Sam holding a Heckler & Koch MP7 personal defense weapon and gameplay of ''ConViction'' displays Sam shooting a hot dog stand with a Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun. I thought that it might have been a Heckler & Koch pistol, although from the wide range of comments it could be almost anything. If anybody else wants to add their own two cents, please do. [[Special:Contributions/124.169.227.214|124.169.227.214]] 02:15, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

== Wierd sight ==

Has anyone else noticed that the 'scope' upgrade on a couple of the weapons (the MP5SD-N1 and G36C if I remember correctly), are really M68 Aimpoints mounted ''backwards''? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 11:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

== People Please==
keep the discussion for the DISCUSSION page, i saw two people venting their input on a promotional posters drawing of the 5-7's caliber, if you wish got go on i will leave it here [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 12:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

:: Note: If you look at the cover/promotional art for the game, the Five-Seven Sam is holding has a barrel diameter that is way too big for the 5.7mm. It looks more like a a barrel for a .45 acp -Indyfan Its not, its the Poorly rendered muzzle with the slide around it. It isn't made to look like its a .45 ACP.

Talk:Splinter Cell: Conviction

2011-02-04T12:22:08Z

Scarecrow:

is it just me or has sam fisher rapidly turned younger since double agent--[[Special:Contributions/92.0.235.181|92.0.235.181]] 10:42, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

It's not just you, Sam has changed and not in a good way. The new development team have thrown the traditional Tom Clancy values out the window in favour of a more Hollywood-style approach. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.5.121|203.206.5.121]] 14:41, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

i played the demo and really didnt like the new direction.it was challenging aiming for thehead from a shadowy position but now all you have to do is press RB and y and it selects the targets and kills them. not stealthy.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
:Not true. The old games' aiming system was terrible. You could have a perfect shot set up and still miss. Plus, M&E requires a hand-to-hand takedown. The demo was set up to give you them, but the full game will have different layouts and more hostiles. Plus, M&E still requires you to know what you're doing; taking down people in plain view/well-lit areas will result in you getting spotted or alerting the guards. Finally, the best argument: "You don't have to use it." --Chris_Hun7er 02:15, 26 March, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I'll jump in. I won't comment on much of the gameplay, save to say that I like some things and dislike others but ultimately I can't change any of it. What I want to ask is if anybody else can't stand the way they tilt their guns diagonally. I mean, it looks kind of cool in that it's different and supposedly done by the best of the best, but after holding a gun that way it's just distracting to see it because I can't imagine shooting very accurately like that. -- ZG
:Look up Center Axis Relock. It is a shooting style that basically allows you to put a lot of lead downrange in a short amount of time and to keep possession of your handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc. in CQC. Not exactly helpful in SCC, but it's a real shooting style. --Chris_Hun7er 06:30, 29 March, 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks so much for the info, Chris. I feel like such an idiot now. If I'd just watched the developer diary I wouldn't have had to ask about it. Been checking out the CAR system, seems a little strange to me, but I can be a purist in many ways sometimes. Guess I'd have to try it to see if it helps throw lead faster. -- ZG

"You don't have to use it!" is the worst argument I've ever heard.

''Splinter Cell: Conviction'' is a huge failure and a disgrace to the Tom Clancy name. [[Special:Contributions/203.161.84.114|203.161.84.114]] 13:35, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Tom Clancy has absolutely nothing to do with these games, y'know. It's a brand, it's slapped on there so more people buy it. As for the change in this game's content, blame the new content director they brought in, who was dissatisfied with Sam being so old and slow, and wanted the game to go faster. Also blame the consumer who got their panties in a bunch over the original concept and not wanting they're precious Sam Fisher to have a goddamn beard and some hair.

Tom Clancy ''used'' to be involved with these video games, although I don't know where the hell he has been in recent times. Also, ''I do'' blame Creative Director Maxime Béland who thought that Sam was a "grandma" and wanted him to be like James Bond, Jason Bourne, and Jack Bauer who "run fast, they don’t make noise, they kill one, two, three or four guys super quickly". The consumers who didn't like "Hobo Sam" (as dubbed by them) can go #### themselves. After ''Double Agent'', Sam was up the creek without a paddle and on the run from the people he used to work for because they thought he was a terrorist. Sam Fisher was a 53-year-old war veteran and former black ops agent who lost his daughter to a drunk driver and was forced to murder his best friend in order to keep his cover so that he could stop John Brown's Army from unleashing Red Mercury upon America. Now, Ubisoft Montreal have turned him into a Jack Bauer rip-off who can burst into a room and kill four men with headshots from a pistol before their bodies have time to hit the ground. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.52.65|203.206.52.65]] 12:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

==USP==
I was playing the demo on the Xbox 360 and I went into the Options menu and I noticed a H&K USP (Unknown caliber.) (Guy in the background holding it with one hand) Can anyone double check for me? (I don't own a Xbox 360 so I can not confirm it myself but I was playing it at a friend's house.) [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 22:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:It can be the [[Splinter Cell: Conviction#Heckler & Koch Mark 23|Mk 23]], which is based on the [[Heckler & Koch USP]].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 07:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

That's what I thought as well. But I didn't see any threaded barrel on it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 10:32, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

:Then it is an USP. We get to see such weapons that are not in the game in the main menu, cover art,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Guys, I was watching a live stream and I can't prove it, but there is a USP. It is under the Desert Eagle (which makes the USP in the lower-right hand corner) in the Weapons Stash and is called the "USP .45" --Chris_Hun7er 07:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

==Five-seveN==
Not referred to as the F.M.P whatever in the game, so I removed that from the subtitle of the in-game picture. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 21:51, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that the "FMP8" was the beta name for the Five-seveN (much like how the "SMG-2" was the pre-release name of the SR-2M Veresk). [[Special:Contributions/124.169.217.190|124.169.217.190]] 04:53, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

==Identifying a handgun featured in a teaser for the '07 build of Splinter Cell: Conviction==
Would someone please be kind enough to identify the pistol that Sam is holding in this picture? It's from the '07 ''Conviction'' build so it's not wiki-worthy, but I am curious to know what it actually is. Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.52.65|203.206.52.65]] 10:35, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6594/ssplintercellconviction.png

:Desert Eagle? [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 10:49, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:Profile spells SIG to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:Looks like a Desert Eagle to me. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 14:24, 28 May 2010 (CEST)

:Looks too small to be a Desert Eagle to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda looks like a 1911 to me [[Special:Contributions/208.66.9.130|208.66.9.130]] 00:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for your help people, it is kind of hard to identify the gun from what little we see of it (although I am pretty sure that it is not a IWI Desert Eagle). I was just curious, because concept art of '07 ''ConViction'' depicts Sam holding a Heckler & Koch MP7 personal defense weapon and gameplay of ''ConViction'' displays Sam shooting a hot dog stand with a Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun. I thought that it might have been a Heckler & Koch pistol, although from the wide range of comments it could be almost anything. If anybody else wants to add their own two cents, please do. [[Special:Contributions/124.169.227.214|124.169.227.214]] 02:15, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

== Wierd sight ==

Has anyone else noticed that the 'scope' upgrade on a couple of the weapons (the MP5SD-N1 and G36C if I remember correctly), are really M68 Aimpoints mounted ''backwards''? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 11:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

== People Please==
keep the discussion for the DISCUSSION page, i saw two people venting their input on a promotional posters drawing of the 5-7's caliber, if you wish got go on i will leave it here [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 12:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

:: Note: If you look at the cover/promotional art for the game, the Five-Seven Sam is holding has a barrel diameter that is way too big for the 5.7mm. It looks more like a a barrel for a .45 acp -Indyfan Its not, its the Poorly rendered muzzle with the slide around it. It isn't made to look like its a .45 ACP.

Splinter Cell: Conviction

2011-02-04T12:15:20Z

Scarecrow: /* FN Five-seveN */