Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Heckler & Koch P7

2017-08-02T00:23:43Z

Rebusdi: /* Mounting a Supressor */ new section

__TOC__ 

=Additional Images=
==Screen-Used==
[[File:Jamesgeorgopoulosdiehardp7.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hard Chrome Heckler & Koch P7M13 - 9x19mm. This is the screen-used firearm carried by [[Alan Rickman]] in the film ''[[Die Hard]]''. '''Thanks to [[User:Jimmygcreative|James Georgopoulos]]'''.]]
[[Image:H&K P7M13 SilverPlate.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch P7M13 with nickel finish, carried and used by [[Christopher Walken]] in the film [[True Romance]]]]

==Other Variants==
[[Image:HK P7 finished in Chrome.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch P7 finished in hard chrome - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:P7M10H&K.jpg|thumb|none|400px|H&K P7M10 - .40 S&W]]

In [[The Final Cut]] - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364343/ Robin Williams used a revolver. It was James Caviezel that used a P7. David.

[[Image:H&K P7K3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch P7 is available in .22LR, 7.65x17mm (.32 ACP) Auto or 9x17mm (.380 ACP).]]

=Discussion=
My favorite small sized pistol. I have used it as my bug for 11 years, and I know it's very reliable, light, and great at firing. I'd recomend it to all who seek a small reliable handgun.

:I'd totally buy one if I had enough extra cash-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:36, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

==How do you tell which variant?==

Can anyone explain to me how to tell the P7 variants from each other? I can't tell the P7M8 from the P7M13 at all. Normally, high-capacity pistols are easy to distinguish from their single-stack counter-parts because they have bulges on the receiver where the frame was widened to accept a double-stack magazine (this is the case with SIGs, S&Ws, etc.) But P7s don't seem to have that. Anyone good at telling the P7s apart? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

You can usually distinguish each pistol apart by the grips. The P7M8 will have P7M8 on the grip itself. As well as the P7M13. In addition, the P7M13 will be significantly wider. -[[User:Hklenin|Hklenin]]

== How to tell which ? ==

The M13 is wider a little bit, but are there any other differences between these two variants? How to tell which version the gun is if one cannot see the slide engravings nor the grips? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 15:12, 2 January 2013 (EST)

== Mounting a Supressor ==

Can someone explain to me how the P7 can have a suppressor? Do they use special extended and threaded barrels in movies, or is there some trick to it. I've never held on in person so I just don't under stand it. Thanks.

Talk:The Blacklist - Season 1

2013-12-16T02:52:49Z

Rebusdi: /* Unknown Assault Rifle */

== Unknown submachine gun ==

A quick guess as to the unknown submachine gun; how about the [[MAC-10#Armscor BXP|Armscor BXP]]? [[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] ([[User talk:PeeWee055|talk]]) 06:24, 4 December 2013 (EST)
:I really can't make it out well enough to tell what it is, but a BXP is pretty unlikely for a production not filmed in South Africa. Whilst looking to try and find another shot of it, I found that one of the Wild Bunch carries a Special Weapons MP-10 with an EOTech and suppressor (can best be seen when you see them all in the back of the garbage truck and again when they are moving through the parking garage immediately after the title card), and another has a TDI Vector with an ACOG and suppressor (the last person who gets out of the truck although it is blurry, seen again in the background when Garrick is talking to Red as he starts treating Ressler's leg). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:53, 4 December 2013 (EST)

The one in the armory looks like a UMP, due to the open front, the other one to me looks like PP2000, don't throw rotten things at me. More likely its a MAC or MP9 or something along those lines, no way its a BXP. The second unknown pistol looks like a rubber prop, the front seems bent, it could be they both are since they are not used, pointed at anyone close to camera etc. --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 17:08, 4 December 2013 (EST)
:I would agree with the UMP one, it also has that similar ramped rear to the front sight. I did briefly wonder if it was an MP-10 with the flashlight hider machined off (have seen this mod and it makes it look a lot like a UMP), but a plain UMP is probably more likely. As for the PP-2000 I did briefly think this as well, particularly with how the supporting grip looks like it is holding a small vertical grip like on the PP-2000. However there are a couple of things that rule it out. Firstly, this is a pretty odd weapon choice as this has only appeared in one film, of Russian origin. To have one show up in a fleeting background role in something filmed in New York seems pretty unlikely. Secondly, if you look at the bottom of the magazine you can see that it has a sort of lip at the bottom, like a UMP mag. Lastly this has a too large an ejection port to be a PP-2000. For both the TMP/MP-9 and the MAC I would say that there is too much receiver behind the ejection port, and in the case of the TMP the ejection port is too large, and as for the MAC this gun is too rounded and doesn't have the slope at the rear of the lower receiver. I can't come up with a match though, am starting to wonder if it is a conventional layout submachine gun that the person is just grasping by the mag well of something like that. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:14, 4 December 2013 (EST)
::I was sure that I saw a Vector too, but it looked too blurry that I thought it wasn't worth the time to get an image of it. Don't know if I can look through the episode again since I'll cap some images in the new episode. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] ([[User talk:Ominae|talk]]) 20:57, 4 December 2013 (EST)
:::I'll get a couple of image of them from Part 1 as I know where to look. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:20, 5 December 2013 (EST)

Could it be the Ekol UZI looking blank gun/gas pistol, it has appeared quite a lot in TV series and low budgets. I doubt its a real UZI ,for one there would be no reason to attach rails to it. I think the unknown mercenary rifle is either a SIG, or a FAL with an aftermarket stock, the old guy with the long hair also seemed to have the same AR type rifle as Ressler on the bridge, but with a different scope --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 06:47, 5 December 2013 (EST)

== Smith & Wesson 3914 ==

The S&W 3914 used in this series is an NYPD DAO Auth. gun, not a standard 3914. It has no manual safety/docker levers on either side of the frame and fires double action only. These are authorized and issued for off-duty use along with a few others. There's another shot in the episode that shows the left side of the frame with no manual safety/docker and the typical gold laser S&W logo etching. --[[User:Luckyluciano|Luckyluciano]] ([[User talk:Luckyluciano|talk]]) 23:24, 5 December 2013 (EST)
:If it is a DAO, would that not make it a 3954? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 03:53, 6 December 2013 (EST)

:No. While both the 3914 DAO and the 3954 are both DAO pistols, the 3914 DAO has a different action than that of the 3954. There is no precocking on the 3914 DAO and there is also second strike capability, unlike the 3954. The 3914 DAO double action is just like a standard 3914's double action, there's just no transition to SA with the 3914 DAO. What gives the gun in the show away as a 3914 is that it doesn't have the extended frame toward the rear. If you google an image of a 3954 and a 3914, you'll see that the rear of the frame and slide on a 3954 extends back quite a bit more than a standard 3914SA/DA or 3914DAO. The standard DA/SA 3914 and the 3914 DAO frames are identical and look just like the gun in the show. Lastly, the giveaway that it's an NYPD Auth 3914DAO is as mentioned above, the lack of safety/decocker on the left side of the frame as well and the gold laser etching. I'll try to upload the screenshot of the other side. --[[User:Luckyluciano|Luckyluciano]] ([[User talk:Luckyluciano|talk]]) 19:36, 6 December 2013 (EST)

== Not a CA-415 ==
That's not a CA-415.
[[Image:CA415.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Coharie Arms CA-415 with sights removed and polymer magazine 5.56x45mm.]]
[[File:BlacklistS01E10 10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another good view of the CA-415 with the railed handguard and the Magpul PMAG attached.]]
The receiver lacks the raised sight rail to accommodate the piston, and the rail system looks like a DD Lite Rail II 9.0. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 06:38, 6 December 2013 (EST)
:Aside from the stock (easily changeable) I think that might be the same weapon that Ressler uses on the bridge in the first episode. It isn't the LWRC M6A2 that it is ID'd as either, because as you pointed out it has the DD rail. Can't tell if any of the other guns are LWRCs though as they aren't seen that closely. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 07:51, 6 December 2013 (EST)

Yeah I said the same about it being the same rifle, which is likely--[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 10:24, 6 December 2013 (EST)

== Unknown Assault Rifle ==

Based upon the stock and the forend, that looks like a SIG 55~variant. I would assume 556 based on the magazine.--[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] ([[User talk:Rebusdi|talk]]) 21:52, 15 December 2013 (EST)

Talk:The Blacklist - Season 1

2013-12-16T02:52:27Z

Rebusdi: /* Unknown Assault Rifle */ new section

Talk:World War Z (2013)

2013-03-15T22:41:26Z

Rebusdi: /* Discussion */

==== Trailer Screenshots ====
[[Image:7.62.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:A-10.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Browning-M16.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:FNMINI.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:FNPARA.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:WWZ-M4.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:WWZ-M4-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:WWZ-M4A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:WWZ-Mk19.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:WWZ-Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:WWZBoltRifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

== Discussion ==
Are those Israeli troops in a couple of screenshots? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:19, 9 November 2012 (EST)
:Judging from the equipment, they certainly looks like IDF soldiers. I guess they are using Minimi to stand in for the Negev.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] ([[User talk:Wildcards|talk]]) 18:28, 9 November 2012 (EST)
::They are Israeli troops. In the book Israel is mentioned as being one of the "success stories" of the Zombie pandemic in their efforts to curtail the spread of the "disease". --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 19:22, 9 November 2012 (EST)
:::Cuba is, too. Following the war, IIRC, they emerge as the world's largest economic superpower. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:01, 9 November 2012 (EST)
:::Lets not forget India; where a general named Raj-Singh was defending a evac point using 18th-Century infantry tactics. He refused to fall back even when him and his men were out of ammo, one of his men had to knock him out and drag into a helicopter in order to get him to New Gandhi Park evac.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 21:14, 9 November 2012 (EST)
::::Then there's the battle of Yonkers where the military was making a show of their modern advanced technology and tactics for the media and it back fired on them [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 21:53, 9 November 2012 (EST)
::::Then there is the old Japanese gardener who teams with a computer nerd to fight there way out of an overrun Tokyo(?) using a Kantana from the gardener's days in the IJA. Oh and did I mention that the gardener was blinded by the atomic bombs? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 21:56, 9 November 2012 (EST
:::::Too bad none of those stories will make their way into this movie...I'm guessing that the Philadelphia by way of Glasgow scenes will be the equivalent of the Battle of Yonkers, but other than that it will probably be Brad Pitt as the hero who single-handedly brings survivors together to save the world. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] ([[User talk:Markit|talk]]) 22:17, 9 November 2012 (EST)
:::::You never know Markit. Also is anyone else going to add a story cause Im actually finding it kinda fun.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 22:28, 9 November 2012 (EST)

As an animal, the human race as a whole is pretty weak. We have no fur for warm, we have problems regulating heat, we have no claws or sharp teeth and we are not very fast and even the strongest of us are hardly as strong as say a bear or lion. We require tools to fight and hunt. Now a good healthy body is good but it is only part. That aside, the zombies, even rage zombies are only as strong as the body that is infected. and realistically a lot of us aren't in that good of shape even if some of us have military/paramilitary training. We're talking about us turning into near well mindless zombies but in this case, more like crazed idiots. So really, I highly doubt even a hundred random people on the streets running at full speed and piling on each other have enough strength to topple a bus like that in one go and climb over it. Even rampaging mobs over a soccer game don't pour into streets like they are the living blob. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:35, 9 November 2012 (EST)
:Humans do have one thing for them: Most people have a huge desire to keep on living. -Survivalkid21

The only thing I wish I could see in this is the semi-auto rifle the US military ends up using when they go on the counter-offensive against the Zs. In the book it's described as 5.56 in calibre with interchangeable barrels and wooden furniture and would never jam. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 23:45, 9 November 2012 (EST)

:Which shows how little Max Brooks knows about guns because ''any'' firearm will jam, no matter how durable and reliable it's touted as. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:00, 10 November 2012 (EST)
::Well I don't know if you've ever seen the abomination that is "Sons of Guns" but when *gag* Red Jacket *gag* designed the "ultimate zombie gun" Brooks chose a bullpup .22 with a 'printed' frame over an M-16 type weapon. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 00:24, 10 November 2012 (EST)

::So according to him a .22 is good enough to kill a zombie because all you need is head shots when before, he thought an AK like weapons is better, in fact, he encourages us to use melee weapons for up close and personal fights rather than longer ranged weapons like spears [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:48, 10 November 2012 (EST)

::: Its nice to know I'm not the person who thinks max brooks is stupid when it comes weapons and guns he said don't use guns cause oh they make noiise but use katana as a primary weapon because taking on like 12 zombies they're totally going line up to get fucking killed the truth is that guy acts as though he's a genius when it comes to weapon and guns and the sad thing is people believe him i swear any of the professional users here like u guys could make smarter books when it comes guns and weapons and when it comes to zomb also Max brooks said grenades wouldn't work because the fragmentation wouldn't damage the zombie/s brains not all grenade rely on fragmentation you Dumb AS5.--[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 02:46, 10 November 2012 (EST)

::::I think it's safe to say that Max Brooks is a mall ninja who thinks that AKs and katanas are the ultimate and superior zombie killing weapon. When in reality, the M16 rifle family is just as hard-hitting, accurate, and tough as any AK rifle, and both of them are good tools for any post-apocaylse scenario. The other thing he doesn't understand is that ANY gun (even AKs) can and will jam or malfunction, not just one brand of guns alone. Also, using Katanas or any other close-range 'weapon' in a zombie apocalypse is pretty much a death sentence because all these so-called 'genuine blades' are just cheap, machine-stamped crap metal that was manufactured for the sake of display, not combat. And besides, what's the point of tiring yourself out and getting killed in hand-to-hand combat with zombies when you could just hide in a very high place where the zombies can't get you, with a long range rifle and enough supplies, and pick them off one by one? Seriously folks, if the zombie apocalypse ever happens in real life, I'll be laughing my ass off when Max Brooks is one of the first 'know-it-alls' who gets eaten by the zombies first. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] ([[User talk:ThatoneguyJosh|talk]]) 05:57, 10 November 2012 (EST)

::::Yeah, precisely. Granted, an AK will jam ''a lot'' less than an M16 in dirty environments, but if well-maintained, an M16 will easily outgun it in terms of accuracy and range. Plus, .223 and 5.56 are likely to be more common than 7.62x39mm. But the AK is, by ''no'' means, a bad rifle and one I would definitely trust my life with if it came down to it. And the thing about katanas is that to effectively employ one requires specialized training. My choice of a bladed weapon would be a machete, or even a khukri, rather than a sword. It's fairly long and heavy enough to lop off limbs, but doesn't require training to become somewhat proficient with. Still, my second line of defense (first would be avoiding or circumventing as many walkers as I could) would be something like an AR-15 or Mini-14 due to their light weight and commonality of ammunition and spare parts. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:34, 10 November 2012 (EST)

::::::Jeebus help me but I actually put some thought into what I would use in a Z type situation and I prefer the 7.62 NATO round over the 5.56 mostly due to the range and power so the HK 417 or SCAR-H for me but...each to his own. Additonally, as they do in "The Walking Dead", edged weapons are preferable only in situations where there are a few Zs or when "stealth" is required as to conserve ammo. Personally though what is killing me in all this "zombie enthusiasm" is companies like Hornady are actually making Zombie specific ammo. I mean...come on!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 11:34, 10 November 2012 (EST)
:::::::The funny thing is that there is nothing different about those zombie ammo are no different to ordinary ammo. They are just painted green instead of red, but what really annoys me is EOtech wasting its money to develop a Biohazard red dot on their sights. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:57, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:::::::And I've put just as much thought into it as you have, Charon. A .223 or 5.56, and even a 9mm, will penetrate a human skull just as well as any .308 or 7.62 NATO at typical line-of-sight engagement range, so why would you want to carry the extra weight that comes along with the larger weapon and ammo? One can easily carry double the number of .223 than he can .308 and the weight saved on the lighter weapon can be translated to rations or water. With the weapons you chose, any range increase is going to be negligible due to barrel length and spare parts less than common (aren't consumers of Mk 16S and Mk 17S rifles ''still'' waiting for FN to start selling spare barrels and whatnot?). Besides, why would you even bother with any walkers out of your immediate engagement zone? Why not leave them be and save the ammo? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:18, 10 November 2012 (EST)

Personally, I would carry a machete of some sort as a last resort but most likely a short stabbing weapon. If I am hold up in a building with walls, I'd make a spear and it would be my daily routine to stab the heads of zombies. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:57, 10 November 2012 (EST)
: Exactly. Zombies(at least, the general interpretation) do not have generals or "high priority" targets, so you don't need to be sniping them at 500 yards. If they aren't in the immediate vicinity, better off conserving the ammo and ignoring them. My ideal weapon choices would be a scoped rifle(.223/5.56 for availability and weight) for hunting game and defending against other hostile and armed survivors if necessary, a sidearm(9mm, again, weight and availability) as a backup, and a machete, tomahawk, hatchet, or kukri which serves as both a last ditch/"stealth" weapon and an effective tool for bushcraft and outdoor use. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] ([[User talk:DKS01|talk]]) 08:32, 11 November 2012 (EST)
::::Me, I'd stick with an F2000 or an M16 variant as my main weapon to use against zombies and against crazed survivors (cause let's be honest here folks, when the existing law and social order breaks down in a crisis, there will be groups of people that can and will go crazy), an M1911, Glock or a SIG-Sauer as my sidearm, and a machete if the need for close combat using bladed weapons should arise. And maybe for the fun of it, if I happen to come across an abandoned M1 Abrams or an IAV Stryker that still has gas and ammunition, I'd use it too. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] ([[User talk:ThatoneguyJosh|talk]]) 05:13, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Oh, and I went ahead an organized some of these screencaps on the main page. The only one I couldn't ID was the one Brad Pitt is using in the final screencap, which doesn't show the receiver area. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:02, 10 November 2012 (EST)

There are some more shots in the trailer. I'll screencap them.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 00:05, 10 November 2012 (EST)

Added another shot of Pitt's rifle. Any ideas? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:18, 10 November 2012 (EST)
:Dunno but in the second cap is it just a blur or is there something attached to the muzzle? A makeshift suppressor of some sort? --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 23:05, 10 November 2012 (EST)
::It looks ''vaguely'' like a bayonet to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:42, 11 November 2012 (EST)
:::Pretty sure it is a bayonet.- Survivalkid21
I can't see very clearly, but is the IDF soldier behind the machine gunner with the Minimi/Fake Negev holding a Tavor?--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] ([[User talk:Wildcards|talk]]) 02:10, 10 November 2012 (EST)
:Could Pitt's rifle be some sort of airsoft type gun as scenes were filmed in Glasgow and it would have been easiest, but not impossible, to use a blank firing replica? I find what appears to be that piece protruding at the front of the bottom of the stock quick interesting? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] ([[User talk:Rebusdi|talk]]) 18:41, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

== Semi-automatic Rifle in Brooks' Novel ==

Does anyone else think it's ridiculous that that the U.S. Military would go through the trouble of creating a new rifle to fight the zombies, just because the rifle is semi-auto? All M16 platforms currently in use by the military have a semi-automatic fire setting. They could just instruct soldiers to fire only in the SA fire mode, or even just create a fire selector lock for the rifles, it would be much cheaper than creating a whole new rifle. Also, isn't mankind on the brink of collapse by the time this rifle isn't invented? Where did the military find the time and resources to mass produce these rifles? Then they decide to build the rifles using wooden stocks? It would be much easier to mass produce guns using polymer or plastic stocks like AR-15s which would be plentiful in the military armories. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 13:36, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:I found that to be the most retarded part of the book...especially since this new miracle weapon still fires the same 5.56mm rounds. If you want a weapon that's semi only and sturdy enough for melee combat, they could've just re-issue M14s again...--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] ([[User talk:Wildcards|talk]]) 14:58, 10 November 2012 (EST)

:Yeah, let's say nothing about this whole business of forming two lines of troops to sweep the whole United States of walkers from coast to coast and the logistical and communications nightmare that would be. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 23:55, 10 November 2012 (EST)
::It's been a while since I read the book but I think it wasn't so much a dual line as it was a box formation with support and resupply/rearm situated in the middle. They used speakers to draw the Zs in with loud music and then were able to engage on all sides. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 11:11, 11 November 2012 (EST)

::: Were they special forces if not what branch or were they combined branches also ha charon your comment 11:11 on november 11 that's pretty funny ...--[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 14:06, 11 November 2012 (EST)
::::In the book they talk about prioritization of resources. All fighters are grounded but all transports are in the air. Armour is only called out when it is needed to quell an insurrection by humans/separatists as is arty and gunships. The war, on the ground at least, is won by the infantry although special forces do play a part in reporting the movement of the Zs (it's also mentioned SF has some of the highest suicide rates related to PTSD as a result). Oh and Blueboy...it honestly took me half an hour to figure out what you were talking about!!!

:::::Oh dude Im sorry about the half an hour I said your comment but i guees coincidences like that aren't funny to others like they are to me thanks for all the info though sorry bout the half n hour hope you ain't mad ... --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 22:59, 11 November 2012 (EST)
They even made a new cartridge for the SIR called "NATO 5.56 PIE" (PIE standing for Pyrotechnically Initiated Explosive). A round that exploded on contact to ensure destruction of the brain.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] ([[User talk:Mr.Ice|talk]]) 00:59, 12 November 2012 (EST)
:I guess that the PIE rounds are some kind of hollowpoint filled with something like Potassium that has been annealed over. When the bullet strikes, the slug expands and the Potassium react with the water in the brain, igniting. -Survivalkid21

== kalashnikov variant V ar15 variant ==

look i openly admit i am going to get a kicking over this

but in the zombie survival guide they spoke highly about the chinise copy the type 56 and the m1 carbine over the m16 as the flaws of the rifle (dirt sensitive, fragile, when using as a club, political interferance to adopt it) look i have studied the weapon it has no piston (Direct impingement en.wikipedia.org/wiki/kalashnikov variant )this would make the weapon "problematic" you would need to clean it more often and if your in the middle of the fight you might not always have that luxury.
while the kalashnikov is designed with a piston and to be maintained by the most dumb thick stupid person you ever had the misfortune to come across it also can be used as a club unlike the m16 i heard of stocks snaping after trying to cave the enemy soliders heads in in hue city in 1968. the only thing that goes against the kalashnikov are the rubbish sights that round goes to the mi6
but i can see where brooks went fot the kalashnikov it has a rep for reliability that has to be seen to belived a friend of my father had to give his ak up after the hungerford massacre in 1988 he desided to distroy his he hammered the rifle up to the pistol grip into the ground and with the aid of some string pulled the trigger the kalashnikov blew it self clear of the soil and was good to go he repeated this over 10 times before he took a hack saw to it

personaly i would us an fn fal good mechisim, accurate enough, can be used as a blunt instrument widespread ammo
--[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 14:30, 10 November 2012 (EST)

If you have to take more than one zombie in close combat you're already screwed 9 times out of 10. And isn't it important to get headshots so again m4/16/ar15, besides the ak bayonet is horrendous it sticks in sandbags imagine tissue --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 18:41, 10 November 2012 (EST)

Here we go again with the "...in Vietnam" arguments against the AR-15 platform. Can anyone ever take into account the improvements that have been made to it in the last 50 years, like, for example, stronger materials (a modern fixed AR buttstock can and ''will'' crack a skull if swung hard enough) or do people still think AR-15s are still manufactured to pre-M16A1 standards? The jamming issues in Vietnam were due to the type of powder the military was using and exacerbated by the lack of training on how to properly maintain it, lack of a chromed barrel and chamber, and lack of a forward assist, none of which had shyte to do with the DI system (which you don't need to link to Wikipedia for, because the biggest part of us here already know how both DI and a short-stroke piston works). Once they switched back from stick to ball powder, instituted a maintenance training program, chromed the hell out of the barrel and chamber, and added a forward assist (i.e., upgraded to the XM16E1), the vast majority of jamming issues disappeared overnight. But, by all means, go ahead and use outdated arguments to pick at my preference of an AR-15 type weapon for a zombie pandemic (note I also mentioned the Mini-14, which has an excellent reputation as a good, reliable rifle) and see how far it gets you. :) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:03, 10 November 2012 (EST)

in defense of the ar-15 varient many of my friends have joined the british royal marines purely on the grounds that they use a version of the m16 i asked "why" because of the stories of the sa80 now lets us say bad things about that weapon --[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 16:39, 12 November 2012 (EST)
:In that case they are in for a big disappointment. The only people in the Marines that use an AR-15 variant (specifically Diemaco C8 variants) are the Brigade Patrol Troop which consists of around 30 guys, and the team from the RM police that provide close protection for the brigade commander, so their chances of being a role where they get an AR-15 are pretty slim. Regardless, among serving troops the general consensus is that there is no problem with the current incarnation of the SA80 weapons, and that H&K sorted most of the stuff with the A2 upgrade. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 17:06, 12 November 2012 (EST)
A lot of the so called jamming issues that happen today on the battlefield has much to blame on the old magazines that are being issued to troops.

Go to youtube and type up "AR-15 Reliability Demonstration" by Sturmgewehre and he'll show you a realistic torture test of an AR-15 that is as close as military spec a civilian can get. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:37, 11 November 2012 (EST)

As a complete aside...this was actually produced for a little while in the US. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] ([[User talk:Charon68|talk]]) 20:54, 18 November 2012 (EST)
http://zombieapocalypseacademy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/chainsaw_zombie_killer_2.jpg

Talk:Looper

2012-10-12T21:05:36Z

Rebusdi: /* just saw the film, noticed some guns not listed */

== Prop pictures are out! ==

IO9 posted a photo of the props from Looper that clearly shows the "futuristic shotgun" (pretty much a zip gun fashioned from a crude wooden handle and something that looks like an AR front) and the single-action revolver (which is not a Colt SAA - I can't tell what it is, some Taurus?).
http://io9.com/5929101/why-joseph-gordon+levitt-has-the-crappiest-gun-in-looper

== looper levels ==

apperently loopers are at best entry level assassins the home made shotgun seems to reflect where they are. the guy to be whacked is already tied up it seems to use buckshot so you cannot miss apperantly there are "gat men" supervisors to the looper that use large calaber revolvers like the Magnum Research BFR that acutaly requiers skill to use unlike the scatter guns --[[User:Seekerdude|Seekerdude]] ([[User talk:Seekerdude|talk]]) 16:07, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

== just saw the film, noticed some guns not listed ==
First off, excellent movie. Second off, just in case anyone was wondering, a few guns I noticed in the movie:
Bruce Willis also used the Mateba Autorevolver, as well as an MP9-looking submachine gun breifly during a flashback. He used it to shoot at a car in a driveby. Maybe a TMP or something?
:I was able to grab a shot off of an international trailer for the film but I can't make a clear ID. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] ([[User talk:Bunni|talk]])

Young Joe had some type of single-barrel break-action derringer looking gun when escaping from his apartment. Noooo clue what it was, dark scene with a dark gun, but the shell casing he inserted into it looked like a .22.
:I added what I believe was a shot of Joe grabbing this pistol from a French trailer but it doesn't look like the break-action derringer you're describing, were there two guns in that scene? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] ([[User talk:Bunni|talk]])
::I *think* so, if we're thinking about the same scene. The part where he falls off of the ladder at the fire escape to his apartment. He loads up something that looks break-action (but again, small gun in a dark shot), loads it with a bullet, and then runs out the fire escape, and he fires one shot at the Beretta Gat Man. If I remember correctly, which is always a crapshoot knowing me. --[[User:Sparticus|Sparticus]] ([[User talk:Sparticus|talk]]) 00:41, 3 October 2012 (EDT)
:::I found a publicity still of that scene. There's ''something'' in his hand. --[[User:Bunni|bunni]] ([[User talk:Bunni|talk]]) 19:07, 5 October 2012 (EDT)
:::[[Image:Looper-derringer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
::::It is pretty much impossible to tell from that shot, but my best guess would be a [[High Standard Derringer]] based on the genreral size/shape and the fact that it appears to have some kind of spur between his index and middle finger. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 19:27, 5 October 2012 (EDT)
The Doctor had some sort of revolver that definately was not a BFR during the climax of the film. A python, I think? Again, it's only on screen for a second.
:I tried to grab this shot but it's just too blurry in the trailers to make any ID. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] ([[User talk:Bunni|talk]])

Old Joe had an MP5 after his P90's ran out of ammunition. You can see it when Abe is looking through a security monitor and then again when Joe bursts through a door.
:Yup, if I remember correctly it had a full stock too - but the magazine and well looked too large to be an MP5A2? I actually thought at the time that it was an HK33 variant, maybe a HK53 could be confused for an MP5? It was shown only briefly and even then through a black and white 'security cam'. Does such a thing as an HK53 with an MP5A2 stock exist, HK53A2? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] ([[User talk:Bunni|talk]])
[[Image:MP5.jpg‎|thumb|none|401px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 with early "slimline" handguard - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&KHK53-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK53A3 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
:Hmm, did a bit of googling, I believe it looked something like this.
[[Image:V53hk532.JPG|thumb|none|400px|HK53A2]]

One of the thugs accompanying Kid Blue at Joe's apartment has a Beretta of some sort, which seems odd considering everyone else's love for BFR's.

The final Gat Man to get killed at the club by Joe with the p90 is carrying an AR-15 pistol variant. You get a good look at it when the guy dies and the gun falls besides him.

Joe drives by a guy who has I *think* a Mossberg shotgun that he uses to kill a looter.
:I added an image from the international trailer - but I can't make it out at that angle. It appears to be pistol gripped. It also has a large rear sight 'fin' like a Mossberg. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] ([[User talk:Bunni|talk]])

Just trying to help, hope anyone on the website finds this useful once this movie comes out on home video.

I think that when the Gat-men were prepping for their ill-fated final assault I saw one loading a Colt 1851 Navy. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] ([[User talk:Rebusdi|talk]]) 17:05, 12 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Taken 2

2012-10-12T20:59:38Z

Rebusdi: /* -- */

I just saw the movie and saw a Micro Galil(In the image of the man with the Arsenal AR-SF the 2nd man is holding the Galil), An AK pattern rifle in either 5.45 or 5.56 (it looked similar to the Arsenal AR-M1 with a Draco Carbine Side folding Stock), a 1911 compact(I think I saw a Para LDA logo on the slide), M4 and M2 50 cal at the US embassy -insertjjs

==--==
Totally agree with you. There is Micro Galil at the house when the two guys shoot trhough the wall to the main caracter -JavierMdR

The police guy from the first one that they torture carries what i think looks to be a SIG Pro of some model judging by the grips. I think the guard posted outside Mills had a 1911 of some variant and i saw one of the men that grabs Lenny had a MP5K --[[User:BrokenBullet|BrokenBullet]] ([[User talk:BrokenBullet|talk]]) 03:44, 9 October 2012 (EDT)

I also saw the Micro Galil and the SIG Pro. I believe that the 'unidentified pistol' was a variant of the Beretta 92. There was also a Browning M2 at the US Embassy. I might be wrong but I think I saw one of the Albanians with a Mac-10 type machine pistol, also a Tec-9 type, but it will take someone with a DVD to check those. Also I was totally wrong but I thought the Steyr was a S&W Sigma which stuck me as an odd choice, but now I see I was wrong. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] ([[User talk:Rebusdi|talk]]) 16:09, 12 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Taken 2

2012-10-12T20:09:31Z

Rebusdi: /* -- */

I just saw the movie and saw a Micro Galil(In the image of the man with the Arsenal AR-SF the 2nd man is holding the Galil), An AK pattern rifle in either 5.45 or 5.56 (it looked similar to the Arsenal AR-M1 with a Draco Carbine Side folding Stock), a 1911 compact(I think I saw a Para LDA logo on the slide), M4 and M2 50 cal at the US embassy -insertjjs

==--==
Totally agree with you. There is Micro Galil at the house when the two guys shoot trhough the wall to the main caracter -JavierMdR

The police guy from the first one that they torture carries what i think looks to be a SIG Pro of some model judging by the grips. I think the guard posted outside Mills had a 1911 of some variant and i saw one of the men that grabs Lenny had a MP5K --[[User:BrokenBullet|BrokenBullet]] ([[User talk:BrokenBullet|talk]]) 03:44, 9 October 2012 (EDT)

I also saw the Micro Galil and the SIG Pro. I believe that the ''unidentified pistol" was a variant of the Beretta 92. There was also a Browning M2 at the US Embassy. I might be wrong but I think I saw one of the Albanians with a Mac-10 type machine pistol, also a Tec-9 type, but it will take someone with a DVD to check those. Also I was totally wrong but I thought the Steyr was a S&W Sigma which stuck me as an odd choice, but now I see I was wrong. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] ([[User talk:Rebusdi|talk]]) 16:09, 12 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2012-08-14T19:20:36Z

Rebusdi: /* Forward Assist */

==Screen Used Rifles==
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film ''[[Scarface]]''. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in ''[[Uncommon Valor]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BattleLA M16A4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 (5.56x45mm) with ACOG scope, RIS foregrip, Magpul MBUS rear sight, and AN/PEQ-15 IR designator as seen in ''[[Battle: Los Angeles]]'']]
[[Image:Colt Law Enforcement Model 6920 Carbine..jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Law Enforcement Carbine with ACOG scope and PentagonLight MD3R weaponlight, screen-used weapon from ''[[I Am Legend]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A1 with 20-round magazine, fitted with scope - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[File:Colt Model 607.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mockcommando.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:GUU-5P.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GUU-5/P - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M148.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm with a mounted [[XM148 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:K3B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Olympic Arms K3B carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:C8A1ELCAN.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A1 carbine 5.56x45mm with ELCAN scope. Also known as the "C8FT" (Flat-Top)]]
[[Image:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A3 Carbine with EOTech red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A4M203ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Artwork of an M16A4 rifle - 5.56x45mm with ACOG scope and M203 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:M653M203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 653 5.56x45mm with magazine removed and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:Cam15a4tacticalcarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Classic Army M15A4 airsoft carbine rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:RRA DEA.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rock River Arms Tactical CAR-A4 Carbine 5.56mm with EOTech sight]]
[[File:Model 633 SMG DOE.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt 9mm SMG DOE (Model 633), shortened variant of the Model 635 produced for the Department Of Energy - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Blackwater AR-15.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Blackwater AR-15 (a.k.a. "BW15") with Magpul PRS stock, Harris bipod and telescope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:ColtCanada C8CQB.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Canada CQB - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

==Airsoft Replicas==
[[Image:CAXM177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Classic Army XM177 airsoft replica rifle - 5.56x45mm (of the type used by SF troops in some scenes of the movie ''[[Green Zone]]'').]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG AIRSOFT RIFLE - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 AIRSOFT RIFLE with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt AR15 Match Target Competition HBAR II 6731.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Colt AR15 Match Target HBAR II (Model MT6731) - 5.56x45mm]]
This is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

An airsoft gun and a cap gun aren't the same thing. LOL [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:43, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

There is a significant difference between a true A2 and A3 M16. Externally, they look identical, however the A3 is full auto and the A2 is 3 shot burst. Simply put: A1 and A3 are full auto, A2 and A4 are 3 shot burst. The external differences are what make it a little easier to identify. We all know what an A1, A2, and A4 M16 look like, but the A3 is just an A2 that is full auto. Hope this helps; Its my first time posting. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 10:14, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Cadillac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

So why not update this page to include current issue M16A4 rifles?
(unless you don't know what they are....)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

:::They're probably somewhere in Mexico right now, if you catch my drift. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:39, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16 series are the ONLY assault rifles (except the [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:g41-series&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&Itemid=5/ HK G41], which is made to be like the M16 and is no longer produced) in the world to have a forward assist. Why don't other assault rifles have a forward assist? (ie. the AK-74, G36 etc.) Because other assault rifles are more reliable and don't need it. :)
::Uh more associated with the design of the Bolt than being more reliable. The AK series have a bolt handle attached DIRECTLY to the bolt carrier as do many other designs. If there is debris or fouling in the chamber which keeps a round from seating properly you can just jam the handle forward (I've done this in the field when my AK / Garand / Galil / M 14 / etc jammed) I once had a tiny piece of bark (I was firing under trees) which fell from above and fell into the ejection port and made the round 'stick' really badly in the chamber so that it would not seat properly. The M16 design has no way other than the forward assist to nudge the bolt & carrier forward enough to fire and kick that crap free of the action. But I wouldn't bash the M16 as an "unreliable" rifle. I'd sure take it into battle right now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright, I understand. thanks for the extra info. I'm not saying the M16/M4 is a complete piece of crap, but it's definitely not the BEST ASSAULT RIFLE IN THE WORLD! like we Americans like to state all the time (*rolls eyes*). You and me both know the M16/M4 is no where as reliable as the G36 or the AK series. But at least it's better than the L85 series, now that's a piece crap rifle. :D *Edit: Well at least the L85A1, the L85A2 is OK. kinda like the M16/M16A1s sucks but the M16A2/A4s are good.

::::I have to completely disagree with what you say, i don't wish to come off as passive aggresive but you sound like a mall ninja that learned their weapons knowledge from seeing them perform in videogames or hearing public opinions on weapons from the news or other sources. The M16 family of rifles are both fine and fairly reliable weapons, while much of that view has been skewed by the fact they were portrayed as unreliable during conflicts such as Vietnam, is incorrect to a degree. The M16 is a reliable and capable weapon when cleaned and properly maintained, it simply lacks the ability to stay so when not properly serviced, as some other rifles such as the AKM can function fine without cleaning, the M16 can not. As for your comment on the L85 series, yes they were somewhat poor and unreliable weapons at first, coupled with poor grips and clumsy to handle for certain users, however the newer models have made large improvements and are very capable firearms. As i feel it needs to be said (or typed) a common mistake people make is assuming that militaries have access and funding to field their troops with the best weapons available, which is not always the case as most countries don't have the money to field an Army with rifles that can cost up to $5000-10000 per unit. Which is where the workhorses like M16's come in, you go for the "good" rifle not the "great" one. Also, although off-topic it somewhat pertains to the M16, most mall ninja's assume the AK-family is better because it is more reliable and fires a heavier cartridge, I've always asked "would you want a round that's going to pierce right through an enemy and leave an easy to treat wound, or have a round that hits an enemy and fragments inside them causing an ungodly bloody mess?" Hopefully esteemed imfdb members such as MPM2008 will agree with and share my viewpoint concerning this subject, as well as not condemn me for my long comment. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 13:24, 06 March 2011 (UTC)

::::The issues of jamming during the Vietnam War had more to do with ammunition and the lack of a chrome-lined chamber and barrel than the rifle's so-called "dirty" gas system. In 1964 the Army switched from stick powder to ball powder, which increased the rate of fire to over 1,000 RPM and left a lot of dirty residue in the weapon. This was only exacerbated by the lack of cleaning kits and training on how to maintain the weapon. They fixed the issue by fitting the rifle with a buffer system (which slowed the ROF down) and chrome-plated chamber. Training programs in weapon maintenance were instituted and an instruction book on how to maintain the rifle was circulated among troops. After further modifications resulted in the M16A1, many of the reliability issues disappeared (although even today, the weapon has yet to shed its bad reputation). The M16A2, A3, A4, and M4 carbine of today are an entirely different breed of warrior than the prototypes that were issued back in the 60s. While it may admittedly be a bit finicky, the M16 today is a good weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah but it's still a very fussy weapon, it's not very durable, and it has much more malfunctions/jams then say the H&K G36, but none the less it's still a excellent weapons platform, mostly. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

::::: I was always taught that the forward assist, while useful in combat, in situations where dirt or grime can jam a weapon, overall, if you DO need to use it, its a good indication of a malfunction and should be addressed, especially if its at a range. Theres a video somewhere on youtube, of a guy shooting some sort of AR, and repeatedly hits the forward assist, without clearing or checking the bore, until the entire gun explodes, probably from a round hitting one stuck in the bore. -MissySummers- 18:47, 8 January 2012 (CST)

:::::::Are you talking about the video where the magazine blows apart on one guy's AR-15 when he pulls the trigger? If so, I've seen it and while I don't recall exactly what the description said the cause was, I'm pretty sure it was an issue with the ammunition (probably a hot cartridge) rather than the oh-so-pined-upon gas system. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:48, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::::::One element to remember when criticising the AR-15's reliability is that when it was first issued in the field, it was touted to not need any maintenance nor be cleaned. Immediately, this was realised to be a mistake, but that initial belief that it never needed cleaning and inevitable memory of fouling sticks around. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 14:20, 14 August 2012 (CDT)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- No prob, dude - I'm just glad you got what I was gettin' at. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

i would be shocked if they couldnt pick their weapons. their the best soldiers on the planet. it just doesnt make sense not to be able to. it would be like giving a star baseball player a 10 dollar glove. itll do but why wouldnt they get the best thats out there. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Reg army units use the burst M4, not the full auto A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

A couple of months ago when I was at a military base there were Marines conducting a weapons demo with the M4 carbine. It was the 3-round burst rifle, but a question came up about the M4A1. One Marine said that they got rid of all M4A1s and only have M4s. I personally don't see the need for a full-auto rifle and 3-round burst is fine because it forces the user to slow down and most of the time the user uses semi-only, combat or not, but that is my opinion. The M4A1 is still probabley used by the US Military, but I'm not sure, I haven't seen one in a long time.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Accurized Rifle ==

After seeing several pages of real firearms appearing in only one film or game, I was wondering if I should expand this page with a new section for the [http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp Colt Accurized Rifle], which to my knowledge has only ever appeared in [[S.W.A.T. 4]]. Before I do that, I need to confirm two things:

*Is the Colt Accurized Rifle indeed another variant on the M16 line of rifles, or a separate take on the AR-15 design altogether? I suppose there's a reason why we don't include the [[Z-M LR 300]] in the M16 page because it's the latter--I need to know if the Colt Accurized Rifle falls in that category.
*Including it on this page would make it the first Designated Marksman Rifle variant here. So far I only see assault rifles or carbines here. Would including a DMR in this page be a problem or not?

If there are no real problems, I'll make a new section for it, but I have no idea where I'll get a non-copyright infringment image of one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:It'd be the '''second''' DMR on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but can someone confirm that the Colt Accurized Rifle is indeed descended from the M16 line of assault rifles and not a separate take on the AR-15 design like the aforementioned LR-300 is? I still have no idea where I can get a photo of this DMR that respects copyright. All I have are game screenshots. Some help here, please? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Removeable Carry Handle for Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Does such a Gun exist?

:Not as a production gun (Colt's website makes no mention of one, anyway), but the modular nature of the AR system makes such a configuration entirely possible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==Why do we have a Colt AR-15 SP1 category that is separate from the M16/SP1 category?==
The guns look the same, sure the SP1 had a design change in 1978 (three prong flash hider was changed to birdcage, rear sling swivel was changed to A1 style and the color went from greenish grey to straight grey) but unless we see the stamp on the side that says "Property of U.S. Government" we can't tell if it's a real M16 (which WERE sold via Title II dealers to armories) and a Colt AR15 SP1 which was converted to full auto (which was done A LOT prior to 1986). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== About M4 Commando and M16A4 Full Auto ==

Full Auto M16A4 (Model 905) is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901]

[http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com_2.asp Model 933] ''is'' M4 Commando (Full Auto)

[http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp Manufacturer's site] says it all.

== Colt Model 653 barrel length ==

Am trying to pin down what a gun is for a page I'm working on. It has a forward assist but no deflector, A1 rear sight, M4 length tubular handguard, 16" barrel with birdcage flash hider and a solid stock. Basically it matches the gun in the picture for the Model 653 on the main page, apart from having a solid stock but that is easily changeable. However, every source I can find about the 653 says that it has a 14" barrel. Was the gun made in different barrel lengths but kept the same designation, and if not, anyone know what the gun is that is pictured as a 653? Also, while I'm on the topic of obscure colt carbines, does anyone know of a model that will match a 725 (original C8 without the flat-top) but has an A2 rear sight? Thanks, --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:16, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Can anyone figure out what this is? ==

I found this hidden in my computer, I think it's a Colt Canada C7A1 as a base, I can tell it's C7 because of the Canadian leaf on the the lower receiver, it would be an A1 because of the removable carrying-handle. What the heck is that hand-guard? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:02, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:Colt Canada C7A1 SPW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C7A1 SPW?]]

:Colt Model 750/Diemaco C7 Light Support Weapon - A modified C7 with an enlarged gas tube (hence the square handguard) and a heavy barrel for sustained fire in the squad automatic weapon role. The C7 LSW is not used by the Canadian Forces but has seen service with the Dutch and Danish militaries. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:34, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

::Ha! I thought so, thanks. :) Should I remove this section or keep it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

:That's not Colt LSW, that's [http://www.colt.com/mil/CAR.asp Colt Automatic Rifle]. Follow the link and you will see that the image is the larger version of the official one. Meanwhile, [http://www.coltcanada.com/lsw-page.htm Colt LSW] has optional folding carry handle. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:09, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

::Thanks guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:02, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

:Just to clarify, the Colt automatic rifle, LSW and LMG are all the same weapon. The original version that looks like the one above was the Colt Model 750, which featured a fixed A2 carry handle and barrel mounted bi-pod, and the newer version above is the current production Model 950, with the relocated bi-pod and A4 rear sights. As you said, the folding carry handle is removeable, and the picture on the Colt website is just one without it fitted (note the longer centre vent on the top of the handguard is the mounting point for the handle). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:48, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

::The original version was based on M16A1:

::[[File:M16A1 CAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

::The one you described was based on M16A2:

::[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Guys, remember back in the 1980s when Colt was trying to vie for the SAW role? Sure the FN Minimi was never knocked off its perch, but Colt came out with a Colt light Machine gun that looked a lot like this. They were selling the barreled uppers on the market for a while in the early 1990s (I know a few friends who have them, but I never got one). This looks like that reincarnated!!! LOL![[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:24, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

:Well, that's all written on [http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/m16-lsw-lmg-e.html Modern Firearms] :P

::Ah yes, you only read about it monkeyboy ;) I was handling and firing that sucker! LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:11, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, and I've found articles of why AR is more advantageous than SAW to US Marine Corps:

:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-employment-concepts M249 Employment Concepts]
:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-light-machinegun-automatic-rifle-role The M249 Light Machinegun In The Automatic Rifle Role]

:Interesting reading, methinks :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 30 April 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah it was. :) You know, I kinda knew LMGs were dying out. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:07, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Not overall, it's just the role they are being used in (automatic rifleman). SAW is still very good in defensive role and laying fire on attacking forces ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

== Heat Dissipation Performance of Carbine Barrel Types? ==

I was wondering, does anyone know what kind of effects the 'cuts' (originally meant for the mounting of the M203 grenade launcher) in the barrel of the M4 and similiarly-styled M16 & AR-15 series carbines has on the heat dissipation performance of the barrel? Do the cuts help the weapon release heat from prolonged firing better than a barrel that has a uniform thickness, or does it hamper that? Any input anyone can provide on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:46, 8 May 2011 (CDT)
:The step down for the grenade launcher is actually pretty negligible in terms of cooling (although it does create a point of weakness to bending), as what you can't see is the fact that as soon as the barrel goes under the handguard it is reduced down to the same narrow diameter as in the cut out, which creates a much bigger effect on cooling. The narrower profile sections have the effect of cooling down the barrel quicker, but they also conversely mean that the barrel heats up quicker, and the heat has a larger effect on the accuracy of the gun. The main advantage however is that it reduces the weight quite a bit. The original reason that the M4 barrel reduces in size behind the handguard is based on the M16A2, which does exactly the same thing where its heavy barrel is actually only thicker past the front sight. This was due to a cock up in the design, where they designed the gun with a full thickness straight barrel, and found that they could then no longer clamp the M203 to the barrel, so the barrels were simply turned down from behind the front sight post. The front of the barrel was left thick due to the fact that the thinner barrels on the M16A1 were being bent at the front from being used as pry-bars to get the loading bands off of shipping pallets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:There is a heavier "SOCOM-profile" barrel that maintains the same diameter beneath the handguards as the standard M4-profile barrel does around the M203 cut and it can mount the M203 just fine.[http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BCM-URG-M4-14SOCOM-2.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:40, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== can you tell me what model of m16/car 15 this is ==

sorry i do not have a pic but i can tell you what is like. me and my dad were talikng about some of the guns he used in the army and he was telling me about this one he said was like an carbine version of the m16a2 and it was like the m4 but had a fixed carring handle and it was used befor the m4 it had safe semi and burst and he said it just had ar15 on the side.-Steviebleckley

:Sounds like the first batch of M4s that were delivered. This is the Colt Model 777, which is basically an M4 with a fixed carry handle, and 3-round burst as opposed to full auto. It is the brother of and visually identical to the 727 mentioned on the main page, where the 727 as full auto as opposed to the burst. If it didn't have the M4 profile barrel though, god knows. Probably a model 654 on an M16 lower receiver or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:02, 13 June 2011 (CDT)

yes it had the same profile as the m4. i gess it was the 777.I will show him the pic of the the 727 since there the same well the 727 is full auto thanks for the info - Steviebleckley

== Question about the buffer tube ==

I'm not one hundred percent sure what it does, and (like the forward assist) that almost no other guns have it. If someone could just clarify, what does it do, why does this rifle series have it, and why don't others/what replaces the buffer tube in other rifles? Thank you in advance. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:27, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
:Basically, it was installed in order to slow down the rate of fire. The very first M16s ended up using a different ammunition powder than they were designed for, which caused a higher rate of fire than desired (about 800 to 1000 rpm I think), leading to excessive fouling in the chamber, and hence lots of stopages. From the M16E1 onwards a buffer tube was added to slow the rate of fire to about 600-700 rpm, and a chrome lined chamber and barrel was added as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:47, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
I'm not sure if this is practical in any way, or even possible, but is their a way to increase the rate of fire on an M16 without the problems of the carbon build-up in the chamber?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)
:Why would you want to increase the rate of fire? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)
No reason, just wondering if it's even possible with a full-auto M16.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 08:09, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:Probably, I see no reason why you couldn't. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm assuming the reason that the high rate of fire caused fouling was that the rate of fire was so quick that the bolt was unlocking and opening before all the powder was fully burnt in the chamber, leaving residue. I'd imagine that you could increase the rate of fire by removing the buffer, and just make sure that whatever powder you were using was fully burnt in the time it takes the bolt to open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:29, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::That would make sense, since I heard the nightmare version of that was when the gas pressure was still holding the spent case in place while the extractor was trying to eject it, which tended to result in Horrible Things happening to the case while it was still inside the rifle. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

This might be a silly question, but why is it that the AR-15 design required the buffer tube, and other rifles do not? Is it just located differently, and if so why? It just strikes me that the lack of a folding stock option is a poor design, especially when compared to most assault rifles designed today, SCAR, ACR, etc. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:57, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm guessing here, but from what I've read it's that the rifle had already been designed, so they had to work inside the box, as it were. The only options were either to make the components of the action a lot heavier so their momentum prevented the weapon cycling too fast (which would rather defy the point of using a lightweight aluminium receiver and suchlike) or add something on to slow it down, which is what they did. Rifles designed since have been designed from the ground up to avoid this kind of problem, so don't need to have a tube attached to a hole in the back of the receiver to fix them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:The buffer tube does two things: 1) contains the buffer and spring and 2) allows the bolt carrier to recoil part of the way into it. The combination means that the AR15-series rifles are functionally a long-recoil design where the bolt does not slam into anything rigid during recoil and stops based on the pressure of the buffer spring. This--in turn--enhances the straight-line recoil and therefore controllability during automatic fire or rapid semi-automatic fire. It also allows the AR15 design to use the rear of the bolt carrier to actuate the automatic sear meaning the probability in this design that you can set a round off with the bolt unlocked during automatic fire is nil. (Look up some of the problems with the "Lightning Link" to get a better idea of why this works the way it does.)

:Other designs often do incorporate additional recoil buffers in the stock, the FN FAL's without folding stocks do this and the plastic-stocked SAW's, but the AR15 design simply trades the ability to fold a stock for enhanced recoil handling... The idea behind the design was to make a weapon where the entire recoil force is in a direct line between your shoulder and the end of the barrel with as little jarring as possible. This is also one reason for the use of a direct gas impingement system and one reason why gas-piston AR's tend to eat the front of the buffer tube and buffer tube area of the lower receiver due to bolt carrier "tilt". The "lateral" forces of the piston tapping the top of the bolt carrier misaligns the bolt carrier off its straight line path and pushes that chunk of steel into the aluminum.

:Oh, and the forward assist is to compensate for not having a rigidly connected bolt handle. (Like someone already mentioned). The reason why is the design is meant to be operated in a manner where you ONLY use the charging handle for initial loading and then unloading at the end (administratively). Every other time, you actuate the bolt using the bolt release on the left side of the weapon... --[[User:Deathbunny|Deathbunny]] 01:28, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Noob Question ==

Ok I have a really dumb question, what is the difference between the Colt M4A1 and the Colt M4A1 Carbine? Or are they the same exact thing? The only reason I asked is when I was looking at the page, the M4A1 and the M4 Carbine look exactly the same, so how can you tell one from the other? - [[User:1morey]] July 22, 2011 11:21 AM (EST)

: The M4A1 and M4A1 'Carbine' are the same thing, the 'carbine' is just optionally showing the proper firearm type. As for the M4 and M4A1, well it ''does'' say the difference in the section but to answer - the M4 has Safe-Semi-Burst fire selection ala the M16A2/M16A4, the M4A1 has full-automatic instead of burst, ala the earlier M16s/M16A1/M16A3. Otherwise they're pretty much identical appearance wise (The M4A1 also has a heavier barrel inside the handguard, which of course you can't tell from the outside). It also notes some commercial AR-15 carbines are given an 'M4' moniker, but aren't the same as actual military M4s. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 12:17, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt or not? ==

If a M4 or M16 variant is listed on a page, should it by prefixed by Colt? I've noticed some people doing this but isn't it incorrect as the term M16 is the army designation as opposed to the Colt name (for example the Colt Model 603 for the M16A1). Either way, I would imagine that quite a few M16s or M4s in movies are manufactured by companies other than Colt, and even the US military rifles are not necessarily made by Colt these days. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:43, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:I am curious... if the military M4 and M16 are not made by Colt these days then by whom? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:58, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::There was a stretch in the 1990s when Colt lost the military contract and all the M16s were built by Fabrique Nationale (FN). Though many companies build AR15 platforms, only the company who has the contract with the Dept. of Defense can call the M16 theirs. If there ARE any other manufacturers being represented on the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq, someone needs to find out. I certainly don't have any contacts who would know information which is THAT current. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:48, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::FN have stated that “the vast majority of M16A2, A3 and A4 contracts as well as spare parts contracts for these systems since 1989”, and they had a $7 million contract to make M16A4s between 2005 and 2008. Sabre defence also won a contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles in July 2008 for the US navy/Marine corps respectively. Having said that FN also stated: ”...never was FN Manufacturing LLC, or any other small arms manufacturer, awarded M4 contracts. The M4 cannot be competed and always has been awarded sole source to Colt because of licensing rights restricting full and open competition until 2009” although it has stated its intention to bid for M4 contracts past this point. The US government took ownership of the M4 design on the 1st July 2009, so the M4 can now be manufactured for the government by other companies, but I don't know if this has actually been done yet. Regardless, M4 and M16 are government designations, so surely calling a gun a "Colt M4" is incorrect? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:09, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Just checked the United States Army [http://www.army.mil/features/ official website]. It lists [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m4.html M4 Carbine] as being manufactured by Colt and [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m16.html M16 Rifle] by Colt and Fabrique Nationale.
::::Oh, and take a note of M16: ''"The '''M-16A3''' is identical to the M-16A2 but has a removable carrying handle that is mounted on a Picatinny Rail (for better mounting of optics) and is without burst control. The '''M-16A4''' is identical to the M-16A2 except for the removable carrying handle and Picatinny Rail."''
::::United States Marine Corps websites: [http://www.marines.mil/] [http://www.marines.com/] don't mention the current manufacturer for [http://www.marines.com/main/index/winning_battles/gear/weapons_and_equipment/m16 M16 Rifle]. So I am not sure about them. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Just to throw a bit of confusion in here, there are actually a number of different rifles designated as the M16A3 by the US military. The first is the Colt Model 646, also known as the M16A2E3, which was introduced in small numbers at the same time as the M16A2 and is an A2 with an A1 lower. Then you have the flat-top Colt Model 901 which was introduced at the same time as the M16A4 (in 1994 I think) and I'm assuming this is the version that the above page refers to. You also have the Colt Models 941 and 942 which are the HBAR and HBAR LMG models respectively, but I don't know if they are used. Not that any of this really matters as we identify all these guns as A2/A4 anyway. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Well, that's because armorers don't have access to military M16A3s, so they just slap A2/A4 uppers to A1 lowers (correct?) because what Hollywood film director would want fixed burst firing gun (ignoring the fact that that's what soldiers and marines use) ? Or modify civilian semi-automatic replicas to fully automatic fire. In which case the weapon is to be identified as such. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:54, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Didn't mean to imply we are doing anything wrong, just that the definition of the A3 models isn't that important as they don't appear. Having said that, the original M16A3/M16A2E3 was just an A2 upper on an A1 lower, so this is actually what a number of movie guns are, but I understand that they are going for a standard A2. Regardless, back to my original question, do we call them Colt or not? My opinion is no obviously, as it seems that some if not the majority of M16s are manufactured by other companies, and there is the future possibility of this with M4, and regardless it is a military designation of a rifle that goes by another Colt name. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:31, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::My opinion: M4 & M4A1 should remain as Colt. And so should older M16s. Modern M16s (M16A3 & M16A4), since they have ''at least'' 3 official manufacturers (Colt, Fabrique Nationale and Sabre Defence), should go without Colt. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:37, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== How to NOT shoot an M16 rifle! ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI] - Seriously, this is either really funny, or just painful to watch... you decide. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:19, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, that was bad. Glad that guy's alright! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:46, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::Also, notice how many times the gun clicks and the guy keeps saying it's a "bad primer". And then he keeps hitting the forward assist, pulling on the charging handle (which is seen ejecting the unfired rounds) and hitting the bottom of the magazine even though it's already back in the gun after he kept taking it out and putting it back in prior (Someone else in the video even says 'Jesus [name withheld], you don't know how to load these.' and the shooter responds with 'I didn't load these, [name withheld] did.'). I think that could have been a contribution to the gun exploding in his hands. But then again, I'm not the expert on M16 rifles, I'm only guessing. Anyone else got a better explanation? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 17:05, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
:::It was the shooter saying that the guy who came to help didn't know how to load them, and then that assisting guy said it was someone else. There is nothing wrong with tapping the magazine even when it appears to be seated correctly, as it makes sure it is all the way into the well. Although he did hit forward assist unnecesarily once or twice, I don't think it would have done any harm or contributed to the kaboom. The file description and all the comments say that this was a squib, and it was all the shooters fault for not identifying it and checking the barrel (there are also quite a few people that seem to think it is possible the load 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber at a time by repeatedly pulling the charging handle, but this is Youtube after all). But I don't think it was, as on the first misfire there was only the click of the hammer, and when he pulled the bolt back a round was ejected which wouldn't have been chambered if the previous "bang" was a squib. I've never fired a round with primer but no powder, but surely there would still be an audible "bang" rather than just the click of the hammer? When exactly did the bullet get stuck in the barrel, or am I missing something? Regardless, I would never use ammo I hadn't loaded myself, particularly not done by a friend of a friend. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:33, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
::::I think it's safe to say that the idea of unintentionally loading 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber of an M16 rifle is an overstatement and pretty much absurd (I've NEVER heard of such a thing happening with the M16 rifles). But one person's explanation in the comments is that when the hammer struck the primers of the "squib" rounds, the 'click' in question was the popping of the primer, which popped with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of the gun, but without the 'bang' sound since the powder of the "squib" rounds were bad. So when the explosion happened, it was because the hammer struck a perfectly fine round, or one with enough charge in it's powder load, and that bullet impacted the other bullets stuck in the barrel, which caused a high-pressure situation ending with the magazine blowing apart, and leaving the M16 rifle damaged (probably for good). Talk about good craftsmanship going to waste! But at least the shooter in the video was not injured in any way. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:51, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::I could be wrong as have never done it myself (I am not a moron) but I am fairly sure that a primer going off with no powder in the round makes a louder noise than just a click, which is all that is heard in this video. Anyone know how loud just the primer from a .223 would be? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:05, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Apparently [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS1K1zJQhOQ this] is a .308 primer. Now bear in mind how far down the audio is turned (as you don't have to wear ear protection when he fires), I can ''kinda'' see that might end up sounding like a click. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:52, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Yeah, most of the time all cameras (except for maybe the professional ones used by filmmakers) capture certain sounds differently. It is possible for the primers of "squib" rounds to discharge with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of whatever gun it's fired from (and sometimes it will stay there until the owner disassembles their weapon and removes the lodged bullet), and most of the time, the "popping" sound of the primers sounds like a "click" when captured on a camera similar to the one used in the video of the M16 blowing up in that guy's face. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:28, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:I've seen this video before, looks like the guy was pulling a half-assed SPORTS drill several times while the weapon was malfunctioning on him. But yeah, shooting custom-loaded ammo with no reliable means of quality control is definitely not a good idea, as this video clearly demonstrates. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:52, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== Not working ==

Why is the M16 page not working. It locks up my computer, and the network wont respond. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes before it will work.[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:It might be your browser and / or RAM is having trouble with the size of it; this is the largest page on the site. What's the spec of your PC? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:03, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

==Difference between original M16 and M16A2==
I know how to distinguish XM16E1s, M16A1s, and M16A4s from each other, but how are both the M16 and the M16A2 different visually? Both rifles have no forward assist or removable carrying handles and the M16 can also appear with a "birdcage" flash hider. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:34, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:M16-SP1-30Mag.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|M16 aka SP1 (flat "slab side receiver") with an A1 "birdcage" Flash hider - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]

:I'll try. Also with the caveat that I have to replace the movie M16s on the site. An IMFDB member whom I am eternally grateful for, pointed out that I had A2 lowers on A1 uppers. Though that works, it's also not correct. I have to replace the M16 pics with exact versions of each one, but that will take time. I just point this out to make sure that people know I'm aware of it.

1) M16: original USAF contract in Vietnam and in the U.S. slab side upper and lower, 1st pattern duckbill three prong flash hider, original buttstock with foldable rear sling swivel. Early models had counter-turning screws in stead of pivot pins to attach the upper and lower receiver.

1) XM16E1: 2nd pattern three prong flash hider, Chromed bolt, exposed mag release button (no ribbing) but there is a partial rib for the front pivot detent pin and spring, old M16 style buttstock and rear sling swivel, tear drop forward assist.

2) M16A1: Birdcage Flash hider, Phosphate bolt but chromed chamber, mag release button ribbing to protect against accidental mag dump and full ribbing to the front pivot detent pin and spring, A1 style buttstock with fixed rear sling swivel (with stowaway compartment in the buttplate)

3) M16A2: A2 style flash hider with no holes on the lower part, ring washer instead of lock washer, heavy barrel, round forearm, full ribbing on mag release button and front pivot detent pin and spring, front part of lower receiver is beefier and thicker as well as the rear part near the base of the tube ring. Updated and longer (by about 1") rear buttstock and thicker buttplate, slight finger ledge on the pistol grip about midway down. Adjustable rear sights with elevation control as well as side to side. A2 does NOT have a detachable carry handle.

Hope this helps. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:26, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

:Don't forget that the M16A2 has semi/3-round burst as opposed to semi/full auto in the M16 (though you rarely see this feature used on-screen as most directors feel the full auto looks better than a 3-round burst). [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:15, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
No versions of the M16 has screws rather than push pins at the front of the receiver. The only rifles that have these are the Sporter 1 rifles (which is what all of the pictures on the main page are actually of). The M16s that pre-date the captive push pin (Models 601 and 602) have a large headed push pin that is held in place by a ball detent on the pin itself. Also, the "M16" category can be separated out into 3 different guns which the USAF used seqeuntially in turn. First is the original 601 which has green furniture, original "duckbill" flash hider and triangular charging handle (around 14,500 were made, 8,500 to USAF, 1,000 to the Army for evaluation and the rest to special forces, police, and a number of Asian countries). The 602 is the quintessential slab sided M16, and introduced the updated 3 pronged flash hider, black furniture, the current "T" shaped charging handle. The third "M16" is what is often called the USAF M16 and was the most produced variant, and was the Model 604. Early versions had the M16E1 type partial fence lower, whilst the later versions had the M16A1 full fence lower, and these weapons continued to be used by Air Force until 2001, when all M16s were updated to the A2 standard. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:58, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
::Cool! Thanks [[User:Commando552|commando552]] As I've said before, I pulled movie armory weapons. Very rarely do I get access to actual firearms museums, but then 99% of the full auto guns were probably sporter conversions, since it was much easier to convert a title I to a class III gun prior to 1986. I have a LONG laundry list of photos to update thanks to you guys! ;) But the information helps. Also only in recent months have i realized how many franken guns were built in the 1970s/80s and 90s on the M16 platform. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:24, 21 October 2011 (CDT)

Pics of the different M16s I mentioned above:
[[File:Colt 601.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 601 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt 602.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 602 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:USAF Colt Model 604.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 604 (USAF M16) - 5.56x45mm]]
--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:48, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

== Historical Question ==

Anyone knows why XM177 never dropped the 'X' letter in it? If 'X' usually implies the prototype and testing stage, then why did XM177 have it with both upgrades and use in service, and the jamming M16s in Vietnam didn't? Or some other reasons? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:02, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Ignoring the USAF rifles (which got official GAU designations) the US Army only purchased a few thousand XM177s and the kinks were never really ironed out, so it is fair to call it an XM program still. Rifle was still in development stages really when US Army cut the funding due to Vietnam war involvement being scaled back.. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:27, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

::Were the Colt Commandos used in Somalia much more refined versions of XM177 program? If yes, I wonder why they were not put back in official service... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Do you have a pic of them, not sure what rifles you are talking about. If you are talking about the Model 733, that is not really related to the XM177s. US forces purchased a small number of Model 733s for Special Forces and was called the M16A2 commando, although Colt later offered it as the M4 Commando. Rangers and Delta in Somalia also used both Model 723s (A1 rear sight a straight barrel) and 727s (A2 rear sight with M4 profile barrel) and these weapons were known initially as M16A2 carbines, before morphing into the M4. Till the early 90s there were still some Model 653s (called the M16A1 carbine) and XM177s with the long moderators replaced with birdcages knocking around as well, so there were probably a lot of different guns knocking around Somalia. These guns were not refinements though, they were guns from the 60/70s that were still being used due to the fact that the US Army did not produce a standard issue carbine till the M4. I'm not even gonna mention the franken-guns that would have been used by the USAF special forces at the time. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:08, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Ah, thanks, that explains it. [http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/449652_going_for_a_1993_Somalia_car15_build_and_need_your_help.html Here are the various photos]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:26, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Carbine/Model 653/Model 727/Model 733 ==

Firstly, forgive my ignorance in things regarding the variety of AR-15 models. In the model description it says that it was 'never adopted formally by the US Military, and thus never had an "M" or "XM" designation.' However, in the following section where it lists the movies in which we can find this rifle it is often found as the M653. Can someone more knowledgeable either clear up why there is this discrepancy? Thanks --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:34, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Editors (and video game developers) often confuse the 'Model', 'M' and 'MK' designations. M653 should be changed to Model 653. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:14, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::Correct. Model "___" is the official COLT designation and usually comes first. Only when the weapon is adopted as an official front line weapon does it get the "M" designation. And all these minutia of details in the weapons history STILL gives me a headache! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:01, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

:::So does that mean we need to clean up this section to take all the 'M's away?--[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 08:11, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::::I've replaced the "M"s with Models --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:22, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Model 978 ==

'''I took this from Wikipedia, so it might be wrong.''' A lot of video games like to portray the M4A1 with additional burst mode. I read that the Colt Model 978 (a.k.a. "M4 Carbine Enhanced") is an M4 that features a S-1-3-F trigger group. I wonder how popular this variant was/is and most importantly when was it finalized and released? (if it was ever) - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:15, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:The four position fire selector weapons were adopted by nobody as far as I know, with the exception of Greece who bought the Model 778 (don't know how widespread this was, have just seen a few in some pics), which is basically a Model 727 with the four position selector. You can actually buy parts for a four position selectors, sears and disconnectors from Colt, so guns can be modified to this standard. However, I guarantee you that no guns in games actually have the correct four position selector, as it looks different to the standard one. Can't find any pics right now, but the four position selector is a flat plate with a ridge along the centre that ends in an odd knurled dome, sort of like a citrus juicer.

:I have also heard of US Special Forces having the four posiiton M4A1s (Model 978), but may just be rumors, and if true there are very few of them and certainly not widespread. They could also be modifications to standard M4s. Below is a pic of the side of a Model 738 M4 Commando Enhanced (Model 733 with the four position selector) showing the selector switch design.

:--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:37, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:[[File:Colt Model 738.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 738 "M4 Commando Enhanced" fire selector.]]

:Which games portray the M4A1 with additional burst mode, for example? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:40, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

::Ghost Recon features the normal A1 and the "M4 SOCOM" which has the bonus burst mode. Same in The Sum of All Fears game (both Tom Clancy games). Cannot think of any other games right now. (Maybe I was a little exaggerating when I wrote "a lot of" since in most games you can't even toggle the rof.) So, according to what commando552 wrote, it is possible that the M4A1 with S-1-3-F group in Ghost Recon was intentional, since you control a (fictional) U.S. special force. (And the correct trigger groups: We (at least I) don't take the selectors into account, since in most games you cannot even see them, or are set to safe while the gun goes all rock&roll.)- [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:55, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, yeah, the universe of Tom Clancy is the one where the prototypes and ultra rare things come true, including weapons and vehicles, so the presence of AR-15-type firearm with four-position selector switch shouldn't come as surprise ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:48, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Bozitojugg3rn4ut, the selector really should be taken into account, as apart from the receiver markings the selector switch is the only external difference between the regular Colt carbines and the Enhanced version with burst and auto. If it has the regular fire selector and lacks the markings on the receiver, then it is simply and M4 with the wrong fire control group. Is very hard to tell from the Ghost Recon screen shots as there aren't any of the relevant side, but you can just make out that there are only 3 positions marked on the right side of the receiver, making the physical model that of a regular M4/M4A1 rather than an Enhanced M4. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:09, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

Interestingly, this discussion is the first result when one Googles "Colt Model 978". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:05, 19 December 2011 (CST)

== Main Page ==

There are 2 issues:

1) Shouldn't it be called AR-15, since ArmaLite AR-15 is the weapon that started it all?

2) There is at least 1 not-rifle on the page: [[M16 rifle series#Colt 9mm Submachine Gun|Colt 9mm Submachine Gun]]

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:58, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

:I agree, AR-15 makes much more sense to me. I would call the page "AR-15 Variants", gets rid of the problem that "M16" is only relevant 5 or 6 of the 30 or so guns on the page, and the fact that rifle is not necessarily the correct term for all of them. I'm not sure how the site mechanics work, but would changing the name of the page create a massive problem for the 1000+ pages that link here, or would the redirects sort it all out? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:44, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

::Need to contact admins and ask them about this. I support your version, as more appropriate one. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:17, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Though you are technically correct, M16 is the most widely recognized nomenclature for the weapons that appear in films. Remember that we are not a gun encyclopedia, we are a weapons in MOVIE/TV/et al wiki. Sure, we utilized those rules of starting with the original weapon when it came to more obscure weapons (like grouping the R4s in with the Galils), but really famous weapons have their own pages, weapons that a firmly entrenched with their own identity in the mind of the movie going public. We also did not start a StG-44 page and then branch the AK-47s out from that even though the AKs obviously were a stepchild of the StG-44 Design theory. Very rarely are guns 'presented' as AR-15s in media. In fact many movie goers don't even recognize the term. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:13, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

::::I don't remember many movies where the character says: "Here is my M16!" or where the weapon is listed in closing credits :\
::::The reason for AK-47 not being on the same page as StG-44 is having completely different design. AK-47 was ''inspired'' by StG project, nothing more. There are a lot of weapons that bear a ''resemblance'' to AK-47 or AR-15 but have different design and thus their own page. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 31 October 2011 (CDT)
::::'''P.S.''' Imagine IMFDB consisting of pages: ''"M1911"'', ''"Desert Eagle"'', ''"MP5"'', ''"Garand"'', ''"M14"'', ''"M16"'', ''"AK-47"'', ''"Everything Else"'' :D

::::Now, [http://kingshamus.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/official.jpg THIS] made me laugh xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:34, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== What is the point of the Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Every time I look at it just seems so useless. I mean, why would anyone want what is essentially an M4 that does less damage with less range? Recoil would be lower I presume, but I cant see an M4 having a gigantic amount of recoil. I'm sure someone could help provide me with some insight but at the moment I'm finding it very hard pressed to find a purpose of this thing. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 14:20, 14 December 2011 (CST)
:I imagine it had more to do with some guys at Colt wanting to get in on the 9mm subgun market but not wanting to design an entire new platform to do it with. The 9mm round also gives you less penetration, which is good if, say, you're trying to shoot the guy you're aiming at only rather than him and the three things behind him. This is why the majority of people who actually use it are police or police-like units. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:42, 14 December 2011 (CST)
::The main advantage of it is that it is an SMG with the same ergonomics as an AR-15 platform, which makes training easier. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 14 December 2011 (CST)
:::9mm is much easier to suppress compared to 5.56. But Evil Tim's answer about Colt not wanting to design a whole new SMG is probably the right one.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:13, 14 December 2011 (CST)

== M4 Scope optics ==

Can someone give me some info on what is the standard scope optic for the military, and what is the best scope optic to use on the M4? i was just curious--Gunner5

:Which military? The M4 is used by a number of them in some capacity. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:53, 19 December 2011 (CST)

U.S. Military.--Gunner5

:The most common, I would think, are the ACOG and Aimpoint RDS, but just about any optic can be used on it. As far as what's the best optic to use, "best" is a relative term and depends on the individual shooter and what he/she prefers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:01, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::Not to mention different optics are more effective in certain situations than others; most ACOGs typically use 4x magnification and are effective for engaging targets at a distance, while red dot sights don't use magnification and are more suited for close-range engagements. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:21, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

== USE WITH S.A.S ==

Why does the S.A.S use the M16A2 as their standard rifle? In Bravo Two Zero (the book), Andy McNab calls the M16A2 a 4x4, and the SA80 a Rolls-Royce. Looking back, the S.A.S have a history of using foreign weapons. Why is this? Do Britain not make good enough weapons? Sure, the only thing we currently make and export are Accuraccy International's (which are the best sniper rifles in the world, and I don't care what anyone else says. It strikes me as strange, though, why the S.A.S use the AW50 and not the AS50 as their heavy-caliber sniper rifle), but why do the S.A.S have to use American weapons? Why not use German?

:"...''have'' to use American weapons?" You have some kind of grudge against American weapons or something? :P In any case, the events of ''Bravo Two Zero'' took place during the first Gulf War, so I really doubt they're still using M16A2s in this age of optics and rail systems. It's my understanding that their ''current'' "standard" long gun is the C8FTHB carbine, which is essentially an M4A1 with a 16" barrel of different profile to that of a standard M4. As to why, well, they use what they ''want'' to use, whether it be British, American, German, whatever. Much like their American counterparts in CAG and DEVGRU, they have the leeway and budget to get a little bit of everything because their mission calls for it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 7 January 2012 (CST)

::The SAS adopted the M16 as a replacement for the 7.62 L1A1 SLR which was the standard British rifle at the time. The SLR was superior in terms of reliability, accuracy and range, but the M16 had a major weight advantage in terms of both the weapon and the ammunition, could mount a grenade launcher, and was capable of automatic fire (so was the SLR, but a match was required to be inserted into the action). One of the reasons they continued to use it after the introduction of the SA80 rifles was due to initial reliability problems, along with the fact that until relatively recently the SA80 culd not use an underbarrel grenade launcher (M16s were also used by other units, such as some Royal Marine units and the Pathfinders). Don't really know the exact reason why the SAS (along with Military Police and Royal Marine close protection along with a few others) use the C8SFW/CQB rather than the SA80 but would imagine it is partially due to the lower weight and the modularity of the SFW (bear in mind that the SA80 didn't have a railed forened until a few years ago and has only just gotten a MIL-STD-1913 on the top for different sights). Unlike the M16s adopted before, the C8 has actually been officially adopted by the MOD as the L119A1 (both the SFW and the CQB share the same designation though). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:17, 7 January 2012 (CST)

:::L119A1 is the official designation for C8 SFW in British SF service. C8 CQB is just its variant. An analogy would be M4A1 (official service) and Colt Commando (unofficial service). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:50, 8 January 2012 (CST)
::::The Colt Commando moniker has never been attached to the M4, it's been primarily used to refer to previous A1-pattern carbines like the XM177 series. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:30, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::Colt currently markets the Model 933 as the M4 Commando, and several models have the "M4 Commando" rollmarks on the left side of the lower receiver as well. It is a bit messed up though also being stamped as the "M16A2 Commando" (making no sense as it is a flattop), or simply "M4LE" on law enforcement Commandos. The Commandos in particular demonstrate the practice of cobbling guns together from whatever bits are available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:44, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
::::::Colt adopted the M4 designation as a marketing ploy, the 11.5" 933 isn't used by the military in any capacity that I know of and not likely to start since those that need shorter barrels already have access to even ''shorter'' 10.3" CQBR URGs and 10.5" Mark 18s, neither of which are M4s since they don't match the physical specs of an M4. Heck, I can pull up a pic of a flat-topped GUU-5/P that to the untrained (or uncaring) eye would be identified as an M4A1, but isn't because it uses a slab-sided pre-A1 lower receiver. A lot of M4A1s in use by SOCOM units also can't technically by Colt naming standards be considered M4s since SOCOM now has 12.5" URGs for use on M4 lowers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:55, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::::Delta Force used the weapon, when it was known as 'M16A2 Commando' (CAR-15 in article), in Somalia.[http://www.guns.com/the-us-special-forces-and-their-guns-and-gear-or-at-least-the-stuff-we-know-about.html] I'd also recommend to get the book "Weapons of Delta Force" by Fred Pushies.
:::::::Force Recon also knows Model 733 as 'Colt Commando'.[http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm]
:::::::In essence, more modern (meaning, without older parts) M4 CQBR and M4 Commando are just that. M4 Carbine with shorter barrel. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:52, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

::::Another reason the SAS don't use the SA80 is because you cannot use it in your left hand and they prefer to be able to use a weapon in both hands as it's better for shooting from behind cover. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:12, 12 February 2012 (CST)

:::"Why not use German?" Aside from the fact that if you say SAS most people with think of "Black Kit" with an MP5, there is still some rumours flying around about them using the 416 and 417. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:30, 13 February 2012 (CST)

::::Probably thrown around by HK's PR department, they sold a ton of MP5s off the back of the SAS using them to break up the Iranian Embassy Siege. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:20, 13 February 2012 (CST)

:::::Using the HK416 might be BS, but British Special Forces do use the HK417. It was bought a few years ago as a DM rifle before the army got the L129A1. It was also more widely tested by the Royal Marines in the role, but was replaced when the L129A1 was adopted. [http://www.eliteukforces.info/images/gallery/uksf/sfsg-multicam-hr.jpg Here] is a photo of an SFSG team, the guy second from the left in the first row has a suppressed HK417. They guy behing may also have one, but can only make out the stock so could be another AR-15 pattern rifle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:51, 13 February 2012 (CST)
::::::He's got a Minimi Para with a PIP stock like the guy second from the right in the front row; you can see the iron sight against his shirt. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:50, 13 February 2012 (CST)

== Page Title ==

While this page contains many weapons based on the AR-15, shouldn't it be called "AR-15 family of weapons" or something like than rather that just "M16 rifle series"? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 12:36, 15 February 2012 (CST)
:Look 4 topics above this one. If it was up to me I would call it "AR-15 rifle series" or something like that, but MPM2008 made the point that although this would be technically correct the average person coming to site would be much more familiar with the term M16, which is fair enough. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:53, 15 February 2012 (CST)

== Sniper Rifles? ==

How are we defining "Sniper Rifles" for [[:Category:Sniper Rifle]]. It seems to me that all the guns on this page are Assault Rifles. I know that you can certainly convert an M16 to a sniper rifle but all the images seem to be of Assault rifles. Just curious! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:47, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:The main rifle on here that I would class as a sniper rifle is the Mk 12 SPR but there are also the Vietnam-era M16 sniper variants, the Model 655 and 656. There are also some "target" AR-15s like the Colt Accurized Rifle and the Match Target Competitions that I would probably class as sniper rifles if I had to put them into a category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:21, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:::Sadly, it seems that Colt has discontinued the Colt Accurized Rifle for the time being. I checked my old link on the [[SWAT 4]] page and it no longer works, nor is the Colt Accurized Rifle anywhere to be found on their product page sections of their website (maybe it just couldn't compete with similar products from other companies?). I was hoping the Colt Accurized Rifle would have been included on this page--I guess that won't be the case now, for how can a firearm be included here on this wiki if it failed to make much of an impact (to the point that it was discontinued) and thus won't be in many pieces of audio-visual media? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:57, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
::I missed the Mk 12 SPR. I 100% agree with you on that one, that is DEFINATELY a sniper. Thanks for clarifying! Any change we could could put a definition on the [[:Category:Sniper Rifle]] page like the one that is on the [[:Category:Assault Rifle]] page? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:28, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

::The 655 and 656 were full-auto capable, so I wouldn't exactly lump them in as sniper rifles. Same goes for the Mark 12, if you want to get technical. The Mark 12 grew out of a program to create a SOPMOD upper receiver component that the shooter could switch out with his M4 upper when in need of increased range and accuracy. So in its original form, the SPR was still technically an assault rifle (and as such it's still frequently used in that manner by SOF who switch out uppers on full-auto lowers), it just had a high-magnification scope, and we all know that just sticking a scope on an AR doesn't make it a sniper rifle. It didn't lose its full auto capability until it was type-classified as an individual weapon. Mark 12s in regular grunts' hands would likely be dedicated sniper rifles, but those you see in use by SOF are more than likely just SPR uppers on M4 lowers. There's a similar distinction between Mark 18s (complete type-classified weapon with 10.5" uppers on refurbished M16A1 lowers) and "M4A1 CQBRs" (10.3" uppers on M4 lowers). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:55, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:::Just because something has full automatic capability doesn't mean it is not a sniper rifle. It is unusual and arguably unnecessary, but as far as I know there is no official definition of what a sniper rifle does and does not have. In my opinion it is a sniper rifle if it is designed for and used in the sniping role. Hell, you can even call small caliber stuff like the Ruger 10/22 a sniper rifle as it has been used as one. For the purposes of this site though, I think the category should be used if the rifle ''appears'' to be a sniper rifle to the average user who might be trying to identify something. In other words, a catch all term for sniper, designated marksman, target and hunting rifles. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 21:14, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:I was under the impression that a dedicated sniper rifle had to have (at a minimum) a scope, be chambered in a full-size rifle round (so as to allow for accurate distant shots with high stopping power, a key part of sniping), be ergonomically suited for use while prone (i.e., its magazine must not be so large as to create an obstruction when lying on the ground on your stomach, and preferably have a bipod) and allow for accurate semi-automatic/bolt-action fire (fully-automatic or burst-fire is possible but counter-productive for accurate long-range shots, and such capability is usually reserved for Designated Marksmen who must travel with a squad and still keep some close-quarters firepower if necessary). So something like the VSS Vintorez wouldn't count because its round is short-ranged (up to 400 meters only given its subsonic velocity, so it's more of an accurized "special purpose" assault rifle), while the SVD would, due to its scope, 7.62x54mmR caliber, small magazine size to ensure it doesn't get in the way when used while prone (I'm very confused as to why the Soviets never put a bipod on the SVD, however), and semiautomatic-only nature. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:57, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
::As we only have the sniper rifle category here, I would class the VSS Vintorez as such, as it is designed as a suppressed sniper rifle. By virtue of the fact that it is suppressed it uses a lower power shorter range cartridge than a typical sniper rifle, but not all sniping is long range. If you were to use an integrally suppressed [[Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_series#Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_Suppressed|AWS]] with subsonic ammunition the range would be limited like on the Vintorez, but that doesn't mean it is no longer a sniper rifle. In particular, for police and some special forces uses long range is not as important in a sniper rifle as accuracy and other considerations. Like I said before, silenced Ruger 10/22s have been used by special forces for almost silent sniping. Another example would be the Russian SV-99, which is a silent sniper rifle based on a .22LR biathlon rifle. Weapons like these are specialized sniper rifles, but they are still sniper rifles none the less. I'm not sure whether trying to make a fixed definition for a sniper rifle is a good idea, as you will always find exceptions. Not all "sniper rifles" even use telescopic sights, an example being the Barrett M82A2 which uses a 1x red dot sight as it was actually designed for shooting from the shoulder as a low cost anti helicopter weapon. Another rifle that breaks your definition would be the [[BMS Milcam Rifle Series|BMS Snicam]] which is undeniably a sniper rifle, but uses a 5.56mm cartridge from 20/30 round STANAG magazine. Different sniper rifles have wildly different characteristics depending on the specific task they are designed for. The only thing I can say about what should be in the sniper rifle category is if it looks like one, put it in there. This isn't an encyclopaedia, the idea of the categories is to help people identify unknown guns, so if it looks like a sniper rifle that is the category they will be looking in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:13, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

== About charging handle ==

From [http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/11/foghorn/ask-foghorn-what-does-a-forward-assist-do/ The Truth About Guns]:

''"Ever since, part of the military’s manual of arms for loading the M16 and its variants includes a mandatory smacking of the charging handle even if it isn’t necessary."''

Is it about racking the charging handle? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:51, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

:That is a mistake, smacking the charging handle does nothing on an AR-15. As it had previously been talking about the introduction of the forward assist (the button on the right rear of the upper receiver), I assume it is meant to say ''"Ever since, part of the military’s manual of arms for loading the M16 and its variants includes a mandatory smacking of the '''forward assist''' even if it isn’t necessary."'' --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:01, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

::Ah, thanks for the explanation. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:50, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

== AKM front sight on an M16? ==

Was just doing a bunch more caps for the [[Bravo Two Zero]] page and came across this:
[[File:Bravo Two Zero (3634).jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
This is the SP1 that is carried by Baz (Ian Curtis) fitted with a CM203 launcher but it looks as if (to me at least) it is fitted with an AKM front sight. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before or know of after-market parts that look like this? This seems like an absolutely random modifications for an armourer to do to a rifle, only thing I can think of would be if the sight on the gun wa damaged during filming so they slapped this on. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:40, 2 April 2012 (CDT)
::The movie was filmed completely in South Africa. Could the SA armorers be using any Vektor rifles disguised as American guns? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
:::I really need to get around to updating the page to show it, but the weapon is a straight SP1 apart from the front sight so it isn't a Vektor. You can actually see the existing M16 gas block, and this looks like the top part of the gas block/sight has been sawed off and an AKM sight welded on. As it switches between a regular SP1 and this one with the cobbled together sight, I'm guessing that the rifle was broken part way during shooting and an AKM sight was the only vaguely suitable spare part they could get their hands on. I've actually taken a bundh of caps for this film bu have forgotten about them till now, will try and add them later to show what I mean. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:44, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== RAS on M16A4 ==
What is this rail system?
[[Image:M16A4withANPEQ&ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
It doesn't appear to be a KAC M5 RAS because it lacks the cut-out in the upper half to accommodate the M203 barrel clamp. If you don't know what I mean, zoom in on the front sight area in this pic and notice how the side rails are shorter than the top and bottom [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/USMC_M16A4_Rifle.JPG]. I've only seen this kind of rail on airsoft M16s. Is the rail in MPM's image above an airsoft replica? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:17, 13 April 2012 (CDT)

:I was having hard time trying to find that specific handguard... While it looks very similar to the KAC's M5, maybe IT IS an airsoft replica, though not 100% sure. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:27, 30 May 2012 (CDT)
::Nope it is NOT an airsoft replica. Those rails are REAL and damned heavy as well. :D I think on this particular gun it had an aftermarket rail system. Not all guns on screen have KAC Rails. I will hunt down the rifle and take more detailed pics of the rails. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:15, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== "M4 Commando" ==

Both Model 933 and Mk 18 Mod 0 sections mention that the M4 Commando is not an official designations. I don't really understand this, as that is how Colt calls it on their webpage. [http://www.colt.com/ColtMilitary/Products/ColtM4CommandoR0923CQB.aspx]- [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:07, 12 May 2012 (CDT)
:About the Model 933, when they were first offered I'm not sure if they were marketed as "M4 Commandos" but they definitely are now. In fact, they even have "M4 Commando" stamped on the magazine well. The Mk 18 is a different kettle of fish, as that is not an "official" colt model and is just put on whatever lower receiver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:37, 12 May 2012 (CDT)

== Question ==
Why isn't the M16A3 listed on here and just about every other site.Just wanted to know?Is that its an unofficial variant or is it just a M16A2 that fires full-auto?--[[User:DJsputnik|DJsputnik]] 00:50, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:It's just an M16A2 with full-auto in place of burst. Almost all "M16A2s" in movies are essentially M16A3s since they're A2 uppers on older A1 or SP1 full-auto lowers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:57, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::Let's not forget that it can be flat-top also. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:05, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I'm noy sure if the full auto version of the A2 that people call the A3 was ever actually officially designated as the A3, but for clarity I tend to call it the Model 646 or M16A2E3 (which was its official name). I save the M16A3 name for the full auto version of the M16A4, the Model 901, whih is currently officially designated by the US as the M16A3. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:26, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Defense Industry Daily disagrees. [http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m-16-rifle-purchases-04517/] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:46, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::::The rifle that the DID article is referring to is the later Model 901. They may refer to it as a full auto version of the A2, but they also talk about the order from FN in 2007 for new A3s and A4s, which were definitely both using the flat top receiver. The flat top A3 was developed in the 90s with the A4, so rifles built in 2007 would not be to the old spec. That article is either unclear and is referring to two different models, or it is a typo (or just wrong) about referring to the "A3" they are talking about as being a full auto A2. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:08, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== Anyone recognise this variant? ==

I just came across this rifle on the ''[[Strike Back - Season 1]]'' page where it is listed as an M4A1:
[[File:Strikeback-M4-1.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
However, it isn't a Colt rifle as the flat top rail is higher than on a normal AR-15 pattern gun. Also, it has an A1 forward assist plunger, A1 lower receiver (although I imagine this is a replacement to allow full auto) and a non Colt stock (curved in front of the locking bolt as opposed to vertical, several companies like Tapco make their stocks like this). I've read somewhere on here (a ''[[Stargate]]'' page probably) that Olympic Arms flat top rifles have a higher scope rail compared to other AR-15s, is this one of them? I know bugger all about Olympic Arms rifles and can't seem to find many pictures of them, but all the ones I can find show them with a standard height rail, kind of like I can never find a picture of one with the "Stowaway" pistol grip that the ''[[Stargate]]'' pages also state that they have. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:25, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

:Doesn't look too different from a standard M4 carbine to me. The telescoping stock isn't much of an identifier as to the model of the weapon; the standard stock can be easily swapped out for third-party aftermarket stocks (in fact you'll note that there are images of the M4 with both four and six-position stocks on this site). As for the forward assist button, it can be swapped out just as easily as the stock. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:11, 11 July 2012 (CDT)
::The forward assist and stock are secondary, they just add to the likelihood of it not being a Colt gun. Another thing that is easily replaceable but just adds to the whole weirdness of this gun in that fact that it has an A1 rather than A2 flash hider. The main thing is the scope rail. It is higher than on a standard AR-15 pattern gun made by Colt, or the majority of other manufacturers. The easy place to see this is at the rear above the charging handle, where the receiver above the charging handle slot is about twice the thickness. I've just noticed as well that the brass deflector looks odd, the top edge of it slopes upwards and goes higher up the weapon. This is definitely a live fire gun as they are used throughout the series firing blanks, but it is definitely not a Colt M4. Was hoping someone would be able to recognise the profile of the upper receiver, as that is the unique part which makes this gun unidentifiable. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:03, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

::I am the one who wrote that comment about Olympic Arms flattop receivers on the ''[[Stargate: SG1]]'' page, and several other pages. If you want a better example of what the earliest OlyArms flattop rifles looked like, check out the pics of the K23B Stubby which is used by [[Gary Sinise]] in ''[[Reindeer Games]]''. My understanding (and I asked about this on the OA message board) is that OlyArms' first flattop receivers were a bit taller (by about .25") than the current mil-spec standard seen on the M4/M16A4, and had a rail that was copied from the Colt ACR (which looks very different from the Picatinny rail). This style receiver was only produced for a short time before Oly started making their flattop ARs with the same type of receiver that Colt had introduced on the M4.

::As for the M4 in ''[[Strike Back - Season 1|Strike Back]]'', I agree with you that the flattop receiver is clearly taller than that of a mil-spec M4, but unlike early OlyArms flattops, it appears to have the Picatinny rail. So unless Oly manufactured tall flattops that had Picatinny rails (and I have no idea if they did), that upper is probably from some other manufacturer. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:44, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

== M16 and SP1 sections ==

As it is impossible to tell an original Model 602 M16 from a Model R6000 Sporter without seeing a detailed view of the front receiver pin (the M16 has a flat push pin whereas the SP1 has a screw headed pin) should they have separate sections? Furthermore from what I can tell the vast majority of the weapons listed in the M16 section are SP1s, as are all the images in that section. I would sugest merging the SP1 section into the M16 section and making a note of the fact that the vast majority of "M16s" in film/TV are actually SP1s. Also, I think the M16/M203 and M4/M203 sections should be merged into the main weapon sections as firstly (in the case of M16s) it doesn't distinguish by variant, and secondly most of the time an M203 is attached to a weapon people just list it under the notes section rather than putting it in these sections. Thoughts anyone? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:43, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== 50-round mags ==

Every time a video game includes a M16 or M4 with 50-round magazines it is listed as an incorrect capacity, why? According to some research, the M16 rifle series use STANAG magazines, which include the 50-round capacity, so why would a 50-round M16 be unrealistic? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] 03:03, 8 August 2012 (CDT) ''(I previously forgot to sign my post, so here it is)''
:I've never heard of a 50-round STANAG magazine, I thought they only came in 20 and 30 rounds. And please sign your posts. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:14, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
Some companies do make quad stack 50 round magazine, Surefire for example. However, these magazine look different to a regular 30 rounder widening outside of the magazine well to double thickness. If the gun is modelled with a 30 round mag and has a capacity of 50 then it is incorrect, just as a gun modelled with a 20 round mag holding 30 rounds is incorrect. To the best of my knowledge no game has featured quad stack AR-15 magazines yet, so any game where the weapon holds 50 rounds is wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:31, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
::Edit: My mistake, Surefire mags only come in 60 or 100 rounds, not 50. Think there are still 50 round ones out there, Magpul have files a patent for a 50 round version of the PMAG. Come to think of it, I really don't know why surefire didn't make the mags 50 rounders, as then the length would be about the same as a 30 rounder making it less obtrusive and more compatible with existing vests and pouches, but whatever. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:13, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
:I can't find anything on Google about 50-round STANAG mags. Maybe the OP could enlighten us? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:49, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
::On the Wikipedia page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STANAG_Magazine STANAG magazine] it says that there are 40, 50 and 90-round magazines (in addition of the usual 20, 30 and 100), which drew my attention on the 50-round mag --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] 03:03, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

William Tapley

2012-06-08T23:21:17Z

Rebusdi: added the Uzi he is holding, hope this is right

[[File:UF 405 32.jpg|thumb|500px|right|William Tapley with a [[IMI Mini Uzi]] as Burton in ''[[Ultimate Force]]''.]]

'''William Tapley has used the following firearms in the following:'''

==Television==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Gun'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#DOE7FF width="150"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="350"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="75"|'''Date'''

|-
| [[Heckler & Koch USP]] || rowspan="3"|Burton || rowspan="3"|''[[Ultimate Force]]'' || "Slow Bomb" (S04E05) || rowspan="3"|2006
|-
| [[Smith & Wesson Model 686]] || "Slow Bomb" (S04E05), with suppressor
|-
| [[IMI Mini Uzi]] || "Slow Bomb" (S04E05), with suppressor
|-
|}

[[Category:Actor]]
[[Category:Actor Male]]

Talk:Wanted

2012-06-07T23:19:59Z

Rebusdi: /* Compensator on Matchmaster */

==Fox's car==

For those that want to know, the car that Fox uses during the big car chase at the beginning of the film is a Dodge Viper SRT-10 Coupe. The version seen in film is from the 2006 model year (noted as such because of the smaller hood vents), which has an 8.3 liter OHV V-10 engine with an output of about 510 hp.

Here's some images from the film:

[[Image:WantedViper-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:WantedViper-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:WantedViper-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:WantedViper-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:WantedViper-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Illinois plates?]]
[[Image:WantedViper-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|That's not Angelina Jolie!]]
[[Image:WantedViper-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:WantedViper-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Not the safest way to drive.]]
[[Image:WantedViper-9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:WantedViper-10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|When the car lands this jump, it pretty much breaks in half, although it is somehow still drivable in the next scene.]]
[[Image:WantedViper-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:WantedViper-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|When she pulls out, the rear bumper falls off.]]

==My Birthday==
This movie came out on my birthday. No big deal but I thought it was cool. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

I had one of my favorite shows come out on my birthday [[Justified]]-[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

==Spoilers==
Good thing I avoided looking at this page before I saw the film. There are WAY TO MANY spoilers on this page. Excellent work on the page but the descriptions don't have to reveal so much about the twists of the plot to explain the guns. I am making changes now that I have seen this film. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

== "Brown Bess" ==

Yeah, as was suggested the "Brown Bess" isn't one at all, it's a German Schetzen rifle. They were pretty much all hand-made so it's impossible to identify it more than that. Unusual to see one with a flintlock though, they were almost always precussion or early breech loaders. That and their rarity / expense makes me guess it's probably a mock up.

== Anyone else notice... ==

wesley has a "meh" two handed grip (almost a cup and saucer) in the first pic of him training with the USP compact, then his left hand is a little higher, then finally on top of the train he has an excellent two handed grip. I can't remember what it is called when the hand is positioned like that. Also notice how on the ''website'' for the film they have no problem accurately naming the custom Safari arms matchmaster, but in the film the custom beretta 92fs is called an "inimashi 17". Is it possible "inimashi 17" is simply what Mr.X called his personal 92fs or maybe sloane? Maybe the fraternity specially modifies berettas or other weapons and inimashi 17 is their designation? the latter seems slightly more possible as special weapons such as flintlock weapons with magazines attached to them appear to be ''issued'' to certain members.
:A two layered hand grip is usually called the "weaver" technique, but if both arms are locked extended it's focus combat shooting style. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Screen Used Beretta ==

The propstore shows a screen used beretta similar to McAvoy main weapon. But this is not the same Beretta 92 of the popular scenes, it's a normal Beretta 92FS. Note the grips with the space for the old relase button system. - [[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]]

[[Image:WANAvoy 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:WANAvoy 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:WANAvoy 3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:WANAvoy 4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
::Probably a secondary stand in weapon. It has the fingerstep triggerguard which the one in the movie does not. What sucks is that these get sold so fast to private collectors that I can't just fly out to London and photograph all of them before they disappear. I still think IMFDB's shots are better than theirs (but I can't say that lest I piss off their photographers ;) ) MPM2008

Does anyone know what type of compensator is used on the Beretta? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 02:48, 18 December 2011 (CST)

== Fox's Jericho 941 ==

The Jericho in which Fox uses in the movie during the car chase does have a rail on the underside of the barrel.

==Why even have a custom gun?==
So Angelina is a South paw, which makes her characters left hand shooters as well. So, since this movie is all about these badass custom guns don't you think they could at least take 5 minutes out of production to add a ambi-saftey on that beautiful safari arms?--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 14:33, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

== Magial Browning Hi-Power ==

Wesley draws two Browning Hi-Power under the truck, and he runs with them when the rats explode, but after he jumps through the windows, they transform in two berettas.

== Side Loaders ==

I can not find anything like the side-loading pistols in this movie, are these even based off of legitamate pistols ot are they just complete fabrications

== Screen Used Flintlock Pistol ==

[[File:Wanted-2008-prop-weapons.jpg]]

This is the Flintlock Pistol seen on the table in the armory. I found this on yourprops.com.

== Compensator on Matchmaster ==

In the text box on one of the images of Fox's Safari Arms Matchmaster it describes her compensator being such that it would blind her in low light. Why would that compensator versus any other design blind in low light, and wouldn't almost any not reduced flash powder blind in low light? Sorry if this sounds like a simple question, just trying to understand? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 09:08, 5 June 2012 (CDT)
:Compensators direct gas straight up to reduce recoil and allow for faster follow up shots. In normal light this is not a problem, but when it is dark the gas being directed straight up and the amount of flash the user views is greatly increased thus blinding them more than a non-compensated gun would, which directs the gas (and thus the flash) straight out of the end of the barrel. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] 15:14, 5 June 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks for your response. I understand the function and operation of a compensator, what I am really questioning is whether this specific design of compensator would be any more blinding than any other? If not, isn't the text below the picture a little misleading? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:19, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Shoot 'Em Up

2012-06-05T14:51:15Z

Rebusdi: /* PPK and Desert Eagle */ new section

==Charles Taylor's Armory==
These didn't really fit on the main page so here's some shots of [[Charles Taylor]]'s armory from the film.
[[Image:SEUArmory-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here we see a [[Ruger Speed Six]], a [[M1911|Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac]], another above it, a [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series#SIG P226|SIG P226]], and a [[Glock#Glock 17|Glock 17]] above that.]]
I believe that is a Ruger Security six and not the Speed six. If i remember correctly the speed six has a fixed back sight and the Security six has a adjustable back sight like the one in the picture.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:58, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:SEUArmory-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here we see two Nite-Tacs, the tutone SIG P226, a Micro Uzi, a Beretta 92FS and a Taurus PT92 AFS. At the top is a full sized Uzi.]]
[[Image:SEUArmory-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A full shot of the table.]]

== Images... ==

Anyone think we're all overdoing a bit w/the number of images that are posted? Takes forever to scroll thru 'em all & the page is a 1000Xs larger than it needs to be! How about an upper limit of say 3-5? [[User:Tommyt|Tommyt]] 20:37, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
: Blasphemy. Hot Fuzz has even more images, as well it should. [[Special:Contributions/24.228.54.78|24.228.54.78]] 21:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
::What's this "we" shit? I don't see you making pages. I've been better about going over on screencaps, but many of these shots show different users, different scenes, and do more than just document guns. I also made Hot Fuzz btw. Check my pages made, I've made a lot of pages. And I do upload a lot of screencaps sometimes, but I rarely do so without a cause. Try reading the captions under the images, they tend to show why I go over sometimes. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:::Okay, no more "we shit" ;) "YOU go overboard with screencaps" is what some posters are saying ... and you always take it personally, like they don't appreciate the hard work you do. That's not the issue. Of course you do hard work and much of it is excellent, but you seem to have a really hard time understanding why a lot of IMFDB users start getting tired of seeing 15-20 shots of the same gun. (BTW, you have gotten much better re: screencaps compared to the earlier pages, which of course, none of us can edit at all or else you'll kill us ;) ) You have to start understanding that there is a point where viewers start saying to themselves ''"Alright already! Enough with the fucking gun! Get on with it already!"'' There has to be a filter where one sees that there is too much of a good thing. Again this has nothing to do with the hard work. It is incredibly hard work and you are thanked for it. But don't confuse criticism for the editorial decision with insults to your hard work or direct insults for that matter. For the record, I will never 'touch' one of your pages. You're a mod, so it is inappropriate, but I am tempted to start cutting back some of the absolutely ridiculous pages made by new members. It makes IMFDB look bad when it appears we have no restraint whatsoever when it comes to screencaps ([[We Were Soldiers#XM16E1|Like this section]]) Again, critiques of editorial choices are not insults to the man. But we (IMFDB) are going to see more and more of these 'conflicts'. MPM
:::BTW, I do like what you did on this page, even though I will never see this antigun film. MPM2008
::::Heh, that is my We Were Soldiers page. That was unexpected but i guess it was just matter of time until someone counted the screencaps and complained about them. I am really, really sorry. The gun porn in that movie was just too good.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::It's not like I pic a bunch of crappy shots though that barely show the gun. I try to pick the best of the best. I never have that "Enough already" mentallity, so maybe that's why I never understand what the big deal is. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Desert Eagle ==

The screencap of the Desert Eagle closeup looks pretty clearly stamped with ".44". Also, the film was shot in Canada, which makes the usage of a .44 magnum handgun much more likely.

What does Canada have to do with the .44 Mag?...if that is your logic wouldn't it be more likely that its a airsoft...since it's filmed in Canada.[[Spades of Columbia]]

:Canadian armorers tend use .44 mag Desert Eagles, while American ones use mostly .357 or .50AE.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:20, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

::''that is your logic wouldn't it be more likely that its a airsoft...since it's filmed in Canada''

::You think all of our pictures of screen-used guns from movies like ''[[Scarface]]'' and ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' are airsoft? Movie armorers are specially licensed to own/rent/handle real weapons on movie sets, dude. Doesn't matter what country they're in. Anyway, most .44 Magnum Mark XIXs have the barrel "fluting", which this gun doesn't have, so it's probably .50 AE. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:31, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

It was a joke towards Canada's harsh gun laws...I know they dont use airsoft and I was unaware that Canadians had a preference on what caliber desert eagles they use in all thier action flixs.[[Spades of Columbia]]

== This Film is Anti gun ==
Anyone else annoyed by this film's rhetoric and think it's anti-gun?
there were quotes like "What do you think of the 2nd Amendment now" and "why so people can go deer hunting with an uzi" all said by the hero -[[User:AdAstra2009]]
: I agree. How stupid is that, a shoot em up (actually named shoot em up) is anti gun. Or at least Smith is anti gun, which makes him a mega hypocrite. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::I say it's anti-"Bad people having guns". I'd say Smith doesn't hate guns in themselves, or he hates guns, but acknowledges that there is no way to completely eradicate them. I dunno, I just watch this for the action. -protoAuthor
:::Christ, not this argument AGAIN... --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 03:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Best way to deal with this is to skip the scene when Smith talks to the Presidential candidate on the plane. Most of the egregious anti-gun crap comes from that scene alone. Just skip from when he sets up the meeting to the skydiving shootout.

Or, just skip the whole movie. It's not very good IMHO. There are much better films to watch "just for the action" that are not an affront to lawful sportsman and responsible gun owners and shooters. --[[User:James3|James3]] 14:47, 4 June 2012 (CDT)

== Just a question... ==

[[Image:SEURem870-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Has that guy been turned into a cardboard cutout of himself by the blast from the shotgun? He looks rather flat. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 01:55, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
:He '''does''' look flat. I won't put past that considering the rest of the movie.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's just a trick of the camera, he falls back and hits the wall after he's shot, so I doubt they could get a cardboard cut out to do that. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

sorry i have to point out an error on the quotation given
its not Mr Bill Hertz it's Mr Karl Hertz

hope this helps

:~)

now we know the results of trap the hero of an action movies in a gun factory

==Browning BDM==
I fail to see a resemblance --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:27, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

== MP5K ==

I don't know if the photo on the set is ever maked with the same weapons used in the final version of the film, but the image below reveals that Smith fires an MP5KA4 and not an MP5K with navy group in the stairs scene how specificated in the page... --[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 21:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:SmithHeckler.jpg|thumb|none|350px]]

:It might be a continuity error. Our screencaps show that the MP5K has an SEF trigger group initially. Though I can't really be sure, as I haven't seen this movie yet. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

== WTF? ==
I get the whole "suspension of disbelief" concept, but one thing about this movie still drives me nuts: ''where the hell did Smith get that animatronic baby''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:43, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

You mean that you dont have a box of animatronic babies sitting around?
-Double Agent M

== Trigger Discipline ==

I get this movie is not realistic at all, but for someone who is amazing with firearms, shouldn't Smith have shown better trigger discipline? The only person I saw throughout the movie that exercised any Trigger Discipline was Hertz when he was reloading his Desert Eagle in the Hammerson Warehouse.

== PPK and Desert Eagle ==

Did any one else think that the PPK looked tiny in Clive Owen's hands, more so than with other actors, making you think he has big hands; then when he handles the Desert Eagle it looks huge, which would have the oposite implications of the PPK? Thoughts? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 09:51, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Wanted

2012-06-05T14:08:15Z

Rebusdi: /* Compensator on Matchmaster */ new section

Talk:Person of Interest

2012-05-27T22:48:34Z

Rebusdi: /* Season 1 Episode 22 Pistol Fires Rifle Rounds */

==I'm in love with the show and I need help==
I came across this show and I like what I see already. But as always I need help to get this page up to its full potential. So anyone is free to edit, change, add screenshots to make this page better.

== Ending Continuity Error - Pilot ==

At the end of the pilot episode Jim Caviezel tells the cop in the car that he had to shoot the cop in the trunk with his gun. During the shoot out he uses a Glock but when he tells the guy in the car that he used his gun he hands him the S&W. --[[User:Ram229|Ram229]] 19:00, 29 September 2011 (CDT)

It may not be an error, he could have just been lying to the Cop. It fits his other actions. --[[User:Krel|Krel]] 18:31, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

:Be glad they got the correct sidearms for NYPD- Glock 19 and S&W 5946--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:37, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

== P226 used by Lattimer ==

I don't think that is a P226, no takedown lever or decocker, no hammer. --[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:07, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

Looks like a Kahr to me in the screencap.

Regards,

Tecolote

:That's what I thought at first, but the grip looks a bit large.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:28, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

The Kahr T9 has a pretty long butt, due to its 8 shot magazine, and wood grips.That's what it looked like to me...

Regards,

Tecolote

==Unknown pistol==

Sam's unknown pistol on the main page looks to be a Kahr K9.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:24, 8 October 2011 (CDT)

It is definitely a Kahr, almost impossible to tell the model though. The back plate on the slide is the give away. It could be a K9, K40, or a T9 even. There was also a series of guns Kahr designated the "E" series (for economy). They had steel frames as well as the K and T guns.
[[User:Rwb1500 | Rwb1500]]

on a side note i do not believe that the Sig is a 556SBR because the 556 would take standard AR mags and not the clear ones like the 552 commandos have.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:31, 8 October 2011 (CDT)
:That rifle looks the same as the custom 553 in [[Salt]]. They both have a fixed hooded front sight wheras factory guns that lack fised rear sights have a folding front sight, they both have that stainless steel ring above the hinge for the stock (don't know what this is, but factory guns don't have them), and they have both had the B&T Rotex flash hider replaced with an M16 style flash hider. Also, they have the same armourer. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:46, 9 October 2011 (CDT)

==Need an ID on this==

[[File:POI SP-9 gangsters.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Was in the end of Judgment. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 19:44, 23 October 2011 (CDT)
:One on the right is a CZ variant.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:41, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

== Auto pistol Reese uses? ==

In the third episode, "Mission Creep", when Sam is shooting at Reese and Joey, Reese pulls an auto pistol (probably a [[Glock 17]] in full auto) and forces Sam to retreat. Can anyone else confirm this?

== Hey dudes... that ain't HK416... ==

That's a Cohaire Arms CA415, you can see it clearly in the upper reciever. It says CA-415 MADE IN THE USA. Cohaire Arms is owned by the infamous Todd "Toad" Bailey, known for making sub-standard (read: utterly crappy) HK clones and AR-15s.

== Unidentifieds ==

Reese's shotgun is a Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" with a folding stock, not a normal 37 model.

Finch's gun in "Flesh and Blood" is either a [[Beretta 84BB]], an 84FS, or an 85F with a nickel plating and wood grips.

The sniper from "Number Crunch" is either an Accuracy International model or a [[Remington 700]] on a AICS.

Fusco's back-up revolver from "Flesh and Blood" looks like the [[Ruger GP100]] from "Blue Code".

==Help to identify (s01e20)==

[[File:POI_s01e20_4.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

And

[[File:POI_s01e20_6.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[File:POI_s01e20_7.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

the bottom two look like a Jericho 941 variant

== Season 1 Episode 22 Pistol Fires Rifle Rounds ==

Does anyone have any idea about this. In Season 1 Episode 22 they talk about, I think it was, the Special Intelligence Activities Division using pistols chambered for rifle rounds. The pistols used by this black ops unit looked to be Glocks so I'm a bit confused. Could they be mistaking the FN 4.8x27mm in a Glock (unless they make that and I don't know about it)? Does anyone know about semi-auto pistols chambered for assault or battle rifle rounds, would it even be possible, pressure wise? Thanks --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 12:39, 27 May 2012 (CDT)
:It would pretty much be impossible. Not even taking the pressure of full power rounds into account the geometry of it wouldn't work. The [[FN Five-seveN]] is chambered for the 5.7x28mm cartridge which has an overall length of about 1.6 inches, which is pretty much the longest round you can fit into a pistol grip and still be ergonomically viable. The shortest cartridge that I would call an assault rifle cartridge would be the 7.62x39mm, which is 2.2 inches. There is no way that you could have a pistol chambered in a full power rifle round and have it looking anything like a traditional semi auto pistol. There are "pistols" that exist chambered for full power rifle rounds, but they are either bolt actions or basically a carbine without a stock. I imagine what they meant was that the pistols were chambered in rifle calibres like the 5.7x28mm, which can use the same physical bullet as a 5.56x45mm but in a smaller case with less propellant. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:50, 27 May 2012 (CDT)

::Just realised I conflated several different cartridges into a non-existant one. I am aware of the pistol/carbines you mention, like the AR-15 Patriot Pistol, but thank you for confirming what I thought, that it wouldn't be possible because of the size issue. They said in the show, something to the effect of, that the black ops chappies use these pistols because it negates kevlar, so I suppose they meant the PDW rounds of HK and FN. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 17:48, 27 May 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Person of Interest

2012-05-27T17:39:22Z

Rebusdi: /* Season 1 Episode 22 Pistol Fires Rifle Rounds */ new section

Talk:The American

2012-05-08T15:33:04Z

Rebusdi:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he pulls a compact Beretta from a woman's purse in one fo the trailers. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 22:22, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it did look like a Beretta Jetfire or something similiar. --[[User:Ruzhyo|Ruzhyo]] 05:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

It was his Hooker's girlfriend. The movie was moving slow so I didn't get a good look at it but he finds it in her purse. Also, for a uber-gunsmith am I the only one who finds it pathetic the best he can come up with is a Mini-14 for something "with the functionality of a sub-gun and the accuracy of an assault rifle [sic]?" It doesn't spoil anything for those who feel like wasting their money but the parameters she gives if I can remember correctly are:

- Target is at 150 to 175 yards
- "Silenced" to which for Clooney's part he suggests suppressed
- Rapid fire
- Able to fit in a vanity bag. Clooney amends it to a briefcase.

If I was the uber-gunsmith I would probably come up with something a little better. And because he has the barrel shipped to him he might as well just dish out for a nice supressor from AAC as opposed to running around town collecting parts.

*I agree. When I first saw that he got a Mini-14 I thought it was some kind of lame joke. Why choose such a high-velocity caliber like .223, then potentially having to use poor medium-range performance subsonic ammo (furthermore .223 ammo is not available for non-military/non-LE users in Italy, and would therefore be much harder and costlier to obtain illegally) when there would quite likely be much better options? A Mini-14 is nice for the A-Team or Uncle Joe in Kansas, but for a silent sniper? C'mon! I'ld call the whole sale a giant rip-off... [[User:Ungesehen|Ungesehen]] 19:38, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

And you'd have left an easy to follow paper trail, not exactly something an assassin wants. Buying a suppressor is something entirely different to buying a gun. speaking about the Ruger, it's a weapon that wouldn't leave a distinct paper trail, as opposed to more fanciful weapons fitting that description.

*****

Might be my eyes playing tricks on me but it looked to me like he had a PPK/S in Sweden and a PPK in the Italian scenes. I would not even consider this a huge continuity gaffe - perhaps he ditched one in transit.

*(Spoiler alert) As I thought the film was sort of a remake of 'The Mechanic' or of something involving a hitman in the 70's, a Bond superspy in the 60's or a cowboy in the 50s I was way ahead of the final plot twist until the bit near the end when the schoolbus drives up. I thought at last the well dressed hitwoman's requirements of her weapon that she required would fall into the plot-the silenced rapid fire rifle that fits in a handbag and costs $9.99 (with a free set of steak knives if you buy before midnight) would make sense as a weapon of choice to hit a schoolbus full of screaming rugrats (rather than just George). Following film cliches, that would give Clooney the chance to 'atone' for the opening bit by him stopping her. Alas, the film didn't go there.[[User:Foofbun|Foofbun]] 08:22, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not really familiar with the mini 14, but it appears that the rifle barrel in the film is threaded and attaches mid-length at the gas block, yet the breech of the barrel should still be in the same place at the bolt head. This would mean the barrel is in two sections that screw together in the middle. Can anyone tell me, is this possible? Am I missing something? Is this how the mini 14 is designed? If so, I've never seen a rifle barrel like this before. I would think it unlikely that the rifling would always match up perfectly or that such a threaded joint in the middle of the barrel could safely withstand the pressure of firing. Someone please educate me.

The take down of the Mini-14 is a fabrication. The barrel of the Mini-14 attaches directly to the front of the receiver, and is not a two piece deal. Use of this gun for the role intended is asinine. This would probably be the least likely gun I would choose for anything related to a "hit". [[User:Captain_America|Captain_America]]

== /* Ruger Mini 14 */ ==

The Rifle he pulls from the packaging is a Ruger Ranch Rifle (scope ring base integrated in the receiver.) The Stock is clearly a Ruger factory folding stock, the receiver is clearly a Ranch Rifle, and the barrel is clearly an old style tapered thin barrel with an old style blade sight. Interestingly once he builds it, he puts an anodized pink aluminum B-Square side-plate mounted scope base on it, when the ranch rifle receiver has a built-in scope base. The suppressor, which he accurately states is a suppressor, not a "silencer" is home-made. The crazy-ass ammunition which he files off and drills out to put liquid mercury in the hollow point is a movie invention made to look scary.

== 7.65 not .38 caliber ==

The Walther in 7.65 is not .380 caliber (9mm KURZ), as 7.65mm is approximately .30 not .38 caliber...rather it is the the 7.65 Luger bottlenecked cartridge (.380 and 9mm are straight cased). This is a better round than either the .380 or the the more powerful 9mm Luger, as it it has velocities in the range of the .357 magnum (1300-1400+ fps) exceeding the 9mm Luger by at least 150 FPS.

You are absolutely right that the 7.65 Luger has roughly the same velocity as a heavy .357 Magnum, however the 7.65mm in a Walther PP refers to .32 ACP, or 7.65x17mm, a straight cased round and slower than all the above mentioned. The 7.65 Luger is a bottlenecked round as you say, but its dimensions are 7.65x21, more akin to the Soviet 7.65 Tokarev. If there is a Walther PP out there chambered for the 7.65 Luger, then I have never read about it. [[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 10:33, 8 May 2012 (CDT) P.S. Please sign your posts with four ~ or the button at the top of the editing pannel.

==Listing the gun seen on the tv? are you serious?==
That is IMHO ridiculous. You can barely make it out, and no one (most of all, the ARMORERS) would even list it as being a firearm used on the production. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:22, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

FN P90

2011-12-19T03:56:15Z

Rebusdi: /* FN P90 */ Fixed date of Taxi from 1997 to 2004

''P90 redirects here. For the Ruger pistol see [[Ruger P90]]'' 

'''The FN P90 has appeared in the following films, television series, video games, and anime being used by the following actors:'''

==FN P90==
[[Image:FNP90.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Fabrique Nationale P90 - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:FNP90Side.jpg|thumb|right|400px|FN P90 - left side view - 5.7x28mm]]
[[File:P90 tact d 500px.jpg|thumb|400px|right|FN P90 Tactical - 5.7x28mm]]

'''Type:''' Personal Defense Weapon

'''Caliber:''' 5.7x28mm

'''Capacity:''' 50-round horizontal box magazine

'''Fire Modes:''' Safe, Semi-automatic, Automatic (900 RPM)

=== Film ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Tomorrow Never Dies]] || || || Seen in Wai Lyn's safehouse armory || 1997
|-
| [[Double Team]] || || [[Dennis Rodman]] || Seen being assembled and fired in Dennis Rodman's armory || 1997
|-
| [[The World Is Not Enough]] || [[Robert Carlyle]] || Renard || || 1999
|-
| [[The World Is Not Enough]] || [[Pierce Brosnan]] || James Bond || || 1999
|-
| [[The World Is Not Enough]] || ??? || Renard's henchmen || || 1999
|-
| [[Taxi 2]] || ??? || Yakuza member || || 2000
|-
| [[3000 Miles to Graceland]] || [[Ice-T]] || Hamilton || || 2001
|-
| [[Blade II]] || ??? || Research Facility guards || || 2002
|-
| [[Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever]] || [[Lucy Liu]] || Sever || || 2002
|-
| [[XXX]] || [[Petr Jákl]] || Kolya || || 2002
|-
| [[Equilibrium]] || ??? || Sweepers || || 2002
|-
| [[X2: X-Men United]] || ??? || Black ops Soldiers || Fitted with tactical flashlights and silencers || 2003
|-
| [[I, Robot]] || ??? || SWAT officers || || 2004
|-
| [[Taxi]] || ??? || German bank robber || || 2004
|-
| [[District B13]] || ??? || French police officers || || 2004
|-
| [[Hostage]] || ??? || Counterfeit FBI HRT Operatives || || 2005
|-
| [[The Interpreter]] || ??? || U.S. Secret Service agents || || 2005
|-
| [[Rush Hour 3]] || ??? || Henchmen || || 2007
|-
| [[Hitman]] || ??? || Interpol Strike Force || || 2007
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || FN P90 LV / LIR || Suppressor, flashlight or laser module || || 2008
|-
| [[The Incredible Hulk]] || ??? || U.S. Special Force Team Member || Fitted with tactical flashlight and laser || 2008
|-
| [[Babylon A.D.]] || || || Trunk of Toorop's car, fitted with suppresor || 2008
|-
| [[Gamer]] || || Prison guard guarding the Slayers || || 2009
|-
| [[Mechanic,_The_(2011)|The Mechanic]] || ??? || || ||2011
|}

=== Television ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Alarm für Cobra 11 - Die Autobahnpolizei]] ||.||.|| .|| 1996-????
|-
| [[Stargate: SG1]] || [[Richard Dean Anderson]] || Jack O'Neil || With Surefire Universal Weaponlight || 1997 - 2007
|-
| [[Stargate: SG1]] || [[Amanda Tapping]] || Samantha Carter || With Surefire Universal Weaponlight || 1997 - 2007
|-
| [[Stargate: SG1]] || [[Michael Shanks]] || Daniel Jackson || With Surefire Universal Weaponlight || 1997 - 2007
|-
| [[Stargate: SG1]] || [[Christopher Judge]] || Teal'c || With Surefire Universal Weaponlight || 1997 - 2007
|-
| [[Stargate: SG1]] || [[Ben Browder]] || Cameron Mitchell || With Surefire Universal Weaponlight || 1997 - 2007
|-
| [[Stargate: SG1]] || [[Claudia Black]] || Vala Mal Doran || With Surefire Universal Weaponlight || 1997 - 2007
|-
| [[Ultimate Weapons]] || N/A || N/A || || ???
|-
| [[Seven Days]] || ??? || Various || || 1998 - 2001
|-
| [[Dark Angel]] || || Maticore Assassins || || 2000 - 2002
|-
| [[24]] || || Secret Service Counter-Assault Team || || 2001 - 2010
|-
| [[CSI: Miami]] / "Crime Wave" || || Bank Robbers || || 2002 - ????
|-
| [[NCIS: Naval Criminal Investigative Service]] || T.J. Ramini || Malachi Ben-Gidon || || 2003 - present
|-
| [[Stargate: Atlantis]] || [[Joe Flanigan]] || Lt.Col John Sheppard || With Surefire Universal Weaponlight || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Stargate: Atlantis]] || [[Jason Momoa]] || Ronon Dex || With Surefire Universal Weaponlight || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Stargate: Atlantis]] || [[David Hewlett]] || Dr. Rodney McKay || With Surefire Universal Weaponlight || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Stargate: Atlantis]] || [[Jewel Staite]] || Dr. Jennifer Keller || With Surefire Universal Weaponlight || 2004 - 2009
|-
| [[Supernatural]] / "Born Under A Bad Sign" || || || Seen in weapons cabinet || 2005 - ????
|-
| [[Numb3rs]] || || Triad Henchmen || || 2005 - 2010
|-
| [[Blade: The Series]] || ??? || Hit team || || 2006
|-
| [[Eureka]] || [[Matt Frewer]] || Jim Taggert || || 2007
|-
| [[Breaking Bad]] || N/A || N/A || || 2008
|-
| [[V (2009)|V]] || ??? || || || 2009
|-
| [[Human Target]] || || Commandos || || 2010
|-
| [[Nikita (2010)|Nikita]] || Various || Various || || 2010
|}

=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Release Date'''
|-
| [[GoldenEye 007]] || RC-P90 || || || 1997
|-
| [[Fallout 2]] || P90c || fires 10mm ammo || Said to be made by H&K || 1998
|-
| [[Rainbow Six]] || || || || 1998
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear]] || 5.7mm P90 SMG || Optional suppressor ||Black Thorn expansion || 2000
|-
| [[The World Is Not Enough (video game)|The World Is Not Enough]] || MB PDW 90 || || || 2000
|-
| [[Counter-Strike]] || ES C90 || || || 2000
|-
| [[Counter-Strike: Condition Zero]] || ES C90 || || || 2000
|-
| [[Perfect Dark]] || RC-P45 || || || 2000
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty]] || || Explosive Ammunition || Used by Solidus || 2001
|-
| [[Fallout Tactics]] || FN P90c || fires 9mm ammo || || 2001
|-
| [[007: Agent Under Fire]] || Munitions Belgique PS100 || || || 2002
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs]] ||F90 || || || 2002
|-
| [[Timesplitters 2]] || SBP 90 || || || 2002
|-
| [[Far Cry]] || P90 SMG || || || 2004
|-
| [[Counter Strike: Source]] || ES C90 || || || 2004
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || || 2004
|-
| [[Sudden Attack]] || || || || 2004
|-
| [[Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow]] || FN P90 (5.7mm) || None || None || 2004
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || || || 2005
|-
| [[The Hidden (VG)|The Hidden]] ||FN P90|||||| 2005
|-
| [[Timesplitters: Future Perfect]] || SBP500 || || || 2005
|-
| [[Punisher, The (VG)|The Punisher]] || 5.7mm Submachine Gun || Various customization options available || || 2005
|-
| [[Black]] || || || || 2006
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Combined Assault]] || || || || 2006
|-
| [[Far Cry Instincts: Predator]] || P90 || || || 2006
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas]] || P90 || Various customization options available || || 2006
|-
| [[Driver: Parallel Lines]] ||F 70 | || || || 2006
|-
| [[Kane & Lynch: Dead Men]] ||P900 || || || 2007
|-
| [[Counter-Strike Online]] || ES C90 || Lapin Variety || || 2007
|-
| [[Operation 7]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Confrontation]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots]] || || Laser sight, suppressor and flashlight || || 2008
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]] || P90 || Various customization options available || || 2008
|-
| [[Delta Force: Xtreme 2]]||||||||2010
|-
| [[Delta Force: Xtreme 2]]||||||||2010
|-
| [[Army of Two: The 40th Day]] || P90 SMG || Can be fitted with a variety of stocks, barrels, scopes, suppressors/muzzle brakes || || 2010
|-
| [[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3]] || P90 || || || 2011
|-
| [[Counter-Strike: Global Offensive]] || P90 || || || DEV (2012)
|-
|}

=== Anime ===

* Jan in ''[[Hellsing]]'' (heavily modified, fitted with silencers)

* Henrietta in ''[[Gunslinger Girl]]''

* ''[[Blassreiter]]''

* ''[[Full Metal Panic!]]''

* Mana Tatsumiya in ''[[Mahou Sensei Negima!]]''

* Asagiri Junko in the last episode ''[[Desert Punk]]''

* Maki in ''[[Burn Up!]]''

* Fukai in ''[[Yukikaze]]''

* Futuristic variant used by SDF terrorists in ''[[Planetes]]''

==P90 TR==
[[Image:FN P90 Triple Rail (TR).jpg|thumb|400px|right|FN P90 TR - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:FNP90wEOTECHsight.jpg‎ |thumb|right|400px|FN P90 TR with EOTech red dot sight (this is a real movie 'blank adapted' firearm) - 5.7x28mm]]

The ''P90 TR'' ''(Triple Rail)'' model has a Picatinny rail, for mounting optics, in place of the standard reflex sight.

=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Last_Sentinel,_The|The Last Sentinel]] || ??? || || Fitted with suppressor || 2007
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid Philanthropy]] || [[Patrizia Liccardi]] || Elizabeth Laeken || With C-More red dot sight, with & without silencer || 2009
|-
| [[The Expendables]] || [[Jet Li]] || Ying Yang || With red dot sight || 2010
|-
| [[The Mechanic (2011)]] ||Various ||guards ||without sights || 2011
|-
| [[Fast Five]] || ??? || || || 2011
|-
|}

=== Television ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title/Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Doctor Who (New Series)|Doctor Who]] || [[Danny Webb]] || John Maynard Jefferson || P90 TR, with blue-lense weaponlight and silencer || 2005 - ????
|-
| [[Burn Notice]] / "Family Business" || [[Jeffrey Donovan]] || Michael Westen || With EOTech red dot sight || 2007 - ????
|-
| [[Torchwood]] || || || Seen in weapons cabinet || 2008
|-
| [[Hawaii Five-0 (2010)|Hawaii Five-0]] || ??? || Kidnappers || || 2010
|-
| [[Nikita (2010)|Nikita]] || Various || Various || || 2010
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs]] || || || || 2002
|-
| [[Sum of All Fears, The (VG)|The Sum Of All Fears]] || "5.7mm SMG" || || || 2002
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas]] ||P90 ||w/ reflex scope or rifle scope || || 2006
|-
| [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]] || P90 || Various customization options available || || 2007
|-
| [[Soldier of Fortune: Payback]] || P90 || Various customization options available|| || 2007
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]] ||P90 ||w/ reflex scope or rifle scope || || 2006
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || FN P90 TR || ACOG sight, Aimpoint Comp sight, Leupold M8 telescopic sight, AN/PVS-4 night sight, suppressor, flashlight and laser module || || 2008
|-
| [[Club, The|The Club]] || PD9 Black Widow || || || 2008
|-
| [[Army of Two]] || P90 || Various customization options available || || 2008
|-
| [[GTA_IV#The_Ballad_of_Gay_Tony_.28Xbox_360_Exclusive_Downloadable_Content.29|Grand Theft Auto 4: Ballad Of Gay Tony]] || || Suppressor || || 2009
|-
| [[Modern Warfare 2]] || P90 || Rapid fire upgrade, suppressor, red dot sight, EOTech holographic sight, Trijicon ACOG, thermal scope, extended magazine || || 2009
|-
| [[Medal of Honor (2010)|Medal of Honor]] ||P90 PDW ||w/ various attachments ||multiplayer-only || 2010
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3]] || F90 || Various customization options available || || 2010
|-
| [[Battlefield Play4Free]] || FN P90 || With iron sights on top rail || || 2011
|-
|[[Ghost Recon Online]]||||||||TBA
|-
|}

==PS90==
[[Image:Fnps90_1.jpg|thumb|right|450px|FN PS90 - 5.7x28mm]]

(''Semi-automatic carbine version of the P90, for civilian use'')

=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Gun (2010)]] || [[50 Cent]] || Rich Taylor || || 2010
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Operation 7]] || || || || 2008
|-
|}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Submachine Gun]]
[[Category:Bullpup]]
[[Category:Carbine]]

Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows

2011-12-17T11:35:26Z

Rebusdi: /* Mauser C96 */

[[Image:AGOSposter.jpg|thumb|right|301px|''Sherlock Holmes: A Game Of Shadows'' (2011)]]

'''The following firearms can be seen in the film ''Sherlock Holmes: A Game Of Shadows'':'''

__TOC__ 

== Webley Mk. V ==
Sherlock Holmes ([[Robert Downey Jr.]]) can be seen with a [[Webley Mk V]] in the trailer after disarming a man that previously wield it. He is also seen wielding it in a promotional poster.
[[Image:Webley Mk. V.JPG|thumb|none|450px|.455 Webley Mk.V revolver.‎]]
[[Image:Webley-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sherlock Holmes holding the Webley revolver.]]

== Webley Bulldog==
Dr. John Watson ([[Jude Law]]) draws his [[Webley Bulldog]] on Holmes ([[Robert Downey Jr.]]) aboard the train. He used the same gun in the last film.
[[File:WebleyBulldog.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Webley "British" Bulldog Revolver.]]

==Mauser C96/ M712 Schnellfeuer==
Sherlock Holmes ([[Robert Downey Jr.]]) loads a [[Mauser C96]] in the trailer. He can also be seen holding it in several promotion photos. The use of this gun in the movie is rather anachronistic as its set in 1892 and the C96 was first produced in 1896.

In a scene in an arms factory the pistol is introduced as being select fire and having a detachable box magazine making it the M712 Schnellfeuer. This furthers the anachronism as this variety was not introduced until 1927 for the Spanish made variety and 1923 for the Mauser produced design.
[[Image:C96Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mauser C96 "Broomhandle" - 7.63x25mm Mauser..]]
[[Image:AGOS-C96.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Holmes loads a magazine into his C96.]]

==Mauser Gewehr 1888==
[[Mauser_Rifle_Series#Gewehr_1888|Mauser Gewehr 1888]]s are used by Austrian soldiers and several men. Watson ([[Jude Law]]) later takes one from a man and uses it during the forest scenes.
[[Image:Gewehr1888_OE.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Mannlicher Gewehr 1888 - 7.92x57mm Mauser. This sample was an issued rifle in the Ottoman Empire based in its stampings. This is a movie armory weapon. The version in the movie appeared to have a thicker barrel, like the German copies.]]
[[Image:MG98-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Men charging through a forest with Mauser Gewehr 1888s.]]
[[Image:MG98b-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Brass ejects from a Mauser Gewehr 1888 as Watson disarms its user.]]
[[Image:MG98c-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Watson aiming a captured Mauser Gewehr 1888.]]

==Maxim MG08==
An Austrian soldier is seen manning a [[Maxim MG08]] with brass barrel, barrel sleeve, and spade grips when Holmes and Watson are aboard a train.
[[Image:MaximMG08.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Maxim MG08 on 'sledge' mount - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[Image:Maxim-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Austrian soldier opens up on Holmes and Watson.]]

==Custom Sniper Rifle==
Professor Moriarty ([[Jared Harris]]) uses a custom sniper rifle in the trailer.
[[Image:GL-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle in its case.]]
[[Image:GLb-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Professor Moriarty adjusts the barrel of the sniper rifle.]]
[[Image:GLc-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Moriarty ([[Jared Harris]]) fires the sniper rifle.]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Crime]]
[[Category:Detective]]
[[Category:Mystery]]
[[Category:Guy Ritchie]]

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-11-11T20:12:59Z

Rebusdi: Undo revision 483089 by Rebusdi (talk)

See [[Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

== KSG ==

Kinda surprised it never appears in singleplayer since it's supposed to be one of the "gimmick" guns for this game, has anyone seen one anywhere? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:07, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::Right now it's still in production. It was apparently a HUGE hit at the 2011 SHOT Show, however on the downside Kel-Tec is a pretty small manufacturer who happens to make pretty popular products, and that results in some pretty severe backlogging. I think they are planning on releasing it in early 2012 last I heard. The best part though is it's supposedly not going to be that expensive! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 18:14, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Mk 14 ==

on the pic Price's Mk 14 has a CTR stock so it is a Mod 1 --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:20, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Soap's M1911 ==
In the pic of his holster, that's not a 1911. Looks like an M9, by the grips and slide safety groove. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:03, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== reload animations ==

A lot of the reloads are still carried from the previous games but what baffles me is there are plenty of guns that have a cocking handle on the left side and even some are the same gun like the MG36 and the G36 but both cock the charging handle from different sides. I was hoping the ACR would changed, but nothing really changed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Beefed up gun sounds ==

I am really liking the beefed up gun shots in this game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)
::Lol... Everything but the ARs have good sounds, and everyone else's gunfire sounds great (ie. your standing next to them). Now I'll admit I'm only about 1/2 way through the ranking so I don't have all of the guns unlocked, so I don't know what some of the later guns sound like. I will say though, the Dragunov gunshot is incredible. I mean like 100% dead on. The L118 is the right sound, BUT NOT LOUD ENOUGH!!! That gunshot should be teeth rattling! The Barrett M107 is the same way; right but not loud enough! I just cope with it by cranking the volume when no one's home :D --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:36, 11 November 2011 (CST)

== Overall thoughts on the game ==
To be honest folks, this game turned out really good in the end. The gameplay doesn't feel as noobified like the last game was, the graphics, game engine and gameplay is more sharper and cleaner this time around as opposed to the glitches and bugs in second game, the multiplayer isn't so bland, the SpecOps feel more polished and fun, and the game's story explained a whole lot more stuff to the overall plot than Modern Warfare 2 did, and it left it on a more appropriate closure to the series. All in all, a good game. Maybe it's nothing groundbreaking in the "realism" factor (We'll leave that to Battlefield), but it still turned out to be a damn good game, and definitely worth the price. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:42, 11 November 2011 (CST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-11-11T16:25:02Z

Rebusdi: /* Overall thoughts on the game */

Talk:London Boulevard

2011-11-05T11:00:37Z

Rebusdi: /* Amazon */ new section

I don't think that is an APB, just an APS with a silencer mounted on it. The APB (below) has a silencer where the centre axis is not in line with the barrel so the sight line is clear, but it looks like this one is a more conventional silencer. Not 100% though from these screenshots. Also, as the APB was only used by Spetsnaz and special police units, would be very surprised if one could be got hold of for movie use. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:05, 4 November 2011 (CDT)
[[File:Stechkin apb.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Stechkin APB with detached stock - 9x18mm Makarov]]

== Amazon ==

Am I wrong, is it inappropriate to have the link to Amazon to purchase this movie? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 06:00, 5 November 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows

2011-10-29T02:28:29Z

Rebusdi: /* Mause M712 */

I think it's safe to say that these aren't Gewehr 1898s. See below. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 23:35, 27 October 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:MG98b-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The magazine that extends out of the rifle.]]
[[Image:MG98c-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Muzzle looks weird. ]]

Gewehr 1888's? It's got the fat muzzle. And the Austro-Hungarian Army did use a licensed copy. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:German_GEW_88.jpg] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 23:48, 27 October 2011 (CDT)

Also, the rifle in the trailer has a visible magazine , the 98 does not have one. -G36Ghost.

== Mauser M712 ==

In the trailer between 32-34 seconds an unknown character can be seen loading a mazing into a C-96 pattern pistol, implying the M712. I would include this but am still somewhat unfamiliar with Wiki editing, and more importantly, how to upload a picture. Not to shirk responsibility, but if someone more knowledgeable can do it, thanks. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 21:28, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows

2011-10-29T02:28:07Z

Rebusdi: /* Mause M712 */ new section

I think it's safe to say that these aren't Gewehr 1898s. See below. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 23:35, 27 October 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:MG98b-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The magazine that extends out of the rifle.]]
[[Image:MG98c-AGOS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Muzzle looks weird. ]]

Gewehr 1888's? It's got the fat muzzle. And the Austro-Hungarian Army did use a licensed copy. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:German_GEW_88.jpg] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 23:48, 27 October 2011 (CDT)

Also, the rifle in the trailer has a visible magazine , the 98 does not have one. -G36Ghost.

== Mause M712 ==

In the trailer between 32-34 seconds an unknown character can be seen loading a mazing into a C-96 pattern pistol, implying the M712. I would include this but am still somewhat unfamiliar with Wiki editing, and more importantly, how to upload a picture. Not to shirk responsibility, but if someone more knowledgeable can do it, thanks. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 21:28, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Sherlock Holmes (2009)

2011-10-27T12:00:56Z

Rebusdi: /* Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows */

I saw the movie and Holmes' attempt to a silenced pistol looked a little bit like either a Nagant revolver or a Chamelot model 1878. The Chamelot makes more sense time wise but the Nagant could still be a possiblity. [[Special:Contributions/98.175.58.228|98.175.58.228]] 21:07, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the gentleman, or lady.

But since the film sets before 'The Adventure of Final Problem', i.e. before 1891 - which means it would be anachronistic for the time for a Nagant Revolver (1895).

That might also explans why Holmes' effort of inventing a 'silencer' for it was fruitless because the escaping propellant gas from the gap of the cylinder and barrel. If there was a Nagant, Holmes would had successed.

And a point to add, 'VR' that Holmes shot onto the wall was the royal cypher of Queen Victoria stands for 'Victoria Regina'. What he did in 'His Las Bow'.

the part the silencer may be a references to Robert Downey, Jr. part in A Scanner Darkly. Rex095

I haven't seen the movie and I'm not likely to for awhile, but the most common Nagant (Russian 1895 in 7.62mm) is by no means the only one (though the only with the gas seal). The first Nagant was the Belgian 1878 and 1884 in 9.4mm, there was the Swedish 1887, Norwegian 1893 and Sewbian models in 7.5mm, the Brazilian and Argentine .44s, the model 1910 (never adopted) even had a swing-out cylinder. - Nyles

== confusing ==

this doesnt have much to do about guns but when they are under big ben and house's of parliment rachael mcadams runs through pipes and gets to tower bridge and downey Jr and lord blackwood follow. surly that would take someone about an hour to get there. they are miles apart. very confusing [[user:smish34|smish34]]

That is correct. Thanks to Sir Joseph Bazalgette - they had to chase through the sewage in Victoria embankment (1870). That was more than two miles of running in London Sewer, from the Parliament to Tower Bridge. But I suppose they can't create the climax if the final battle took place on The Westminster Bridge.

Another non-gun related point to make. Being a pipe smoker myself, I am rather upseted by the down-toning of Holmes' pipe smoking habbit because of the changing of social habit of modern days. But at least the choice of pipe used in the film fits with the describition in the novel, a straight-stem 'Old Black Pipe' which could be the same one he smoked in 'The adventure of the creeping man'. Instead of the curved-stem calabash pipe made famous by previous Holmes films, which was introduced by William Gillette - since he found it was difficult to deliver his lines with a straight-stem pipe in his mouth. In all of the Sir Conan Doyle stories, Holmes smoked either a briar, clay or cherrywood pipe.

Also, as you might notice the username of mine is my favourite model of pipe.

K&P 317

:Yeah, but don't forget that in the novels he also injects cocain and heroin frequently. I'm sure Robert Downey Jr. is glad that got taken out, as it probably would've given him some bad flashbacks.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 04:17, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Holmes never injected heroin.

The liquid he was drinking above the fight club was cocaine, it was a nod to Holmes' drug use. I'm assuming that the producers thought the general public wouldn't approve of a Holmes that did drugs but they wanted to be as accurate as possible, so they had him imbibe cocaine in liquid form for us fans(which was used as an anesthetic at the time)and the general public wouldn't
think twice about it. I also really doubt Downey would give much of a fuss.

The gentleman/lady above is correct.
Although the movie did not depict what type of drug Holmes was drinking, Heroin did not exist until 1895, as a registered brand name of the German drug company Bayer. Holmes used cocaine and morphine.

It was legal, even fashionable in upper class to use these kind of recreational drugs in the late Vactorian era, i.e. the Great Binge. All of them could be easily obtained over the counter. Technicly, even the pope were on drugs in those days. Both Pius X and Leo XIII were very fond of vin Mariani, which contains cocaine. Besides, they smoked cigars. (Wish the current pope can be just as cool)

The great binge lasted until early stage of the 14-18 war, Harrods used to sell gift sets contained cocaine and heroine for front line soldiers. K&P 317

Gentleman, thank you. I am proposing it as cocaine based on his general demeanor at the time of Watson discovering him. He was manic, and talked of being awake for some time, focused on tediously accomplishing a task that took hours. Hallmarks of a stimulant.

Thank you sir/madam, that explains. The only medical knowledge I have is a full English breakfast is the best cure for a hangover. A related point to add, heroin as a registered brand name like aspirin of Bayer was taken off as part of the
Treaty of Versailles. K&P 317

I am a gentleman, I would sign off more often but I have been having trouble accessing my account. An aside you may appreciate, my father passed a few years back and i recently uncovered his box full of pipe smoking kit. My entire life i had no idea he was a pipe smoker, the rest of my family looked at me like i just discovered the sky was blue.

== Winchester 1887 ==

I could have sworn in the beginning of the movie when we see London police prepare themselves in the carriage, one of them was chambering a shell into a shotgun like the 1887. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

I thought it was a double-barreled shotgun. Rex095

That was definately an 1887 Winchester.

Which would be a damned unlikely weapons for the LMP, a 14-gauge Greener-Martini Police Gun or generic 12 gauge side-by-side doubles perhaps.
:It is a Winchester 1887. Will cap it when I can [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::Based on only the loading shot of the gun I would agree on the Win. 1887, however when the Metro. Police storm the ceremony hall the profile of the gun appears much too narrow to be that of the '87. So I would somewhat lean towards it being the Greener Police Gun.[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I can't get a good screencap, but whatever it is, it has two Baddeley type bands around a single barrel. I'd agree with some variant of Martini-Greener shotgun.--[[User:Big les|Big les]] 18:50, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

== Suppressed revolver? ==

For Sherlock Holmes being a smart man, he thought he could invent a suppressor but forgot that suppressors can't won't on revolvers because of the open revolving chamber [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:he was also in drugs and extremely bored at the time.
:You do realize that even a drunk Holmes can make pointless discoveries that no one cares about [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Not with an NKVD-issued Nagant. The NKVD had specialized Nagant Revolvers made that could be silenced, specifically for assassinations.--[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] 20:05, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

At the time this movie takes place, there was only one or two semis, so, I doubt he'd be using one. Just my two cents. Also: why use an antique you're just gonna butcher up with a mock suppressor when you can use a $50 surplus arm that has saturated the market and no one will miss and only the keenest of keen people will be able to pick out that it was made in the 1940's and post dates the movie by 6 years, but looks the part any way?

==Police sidearms==
This film accurately portrays the London Police as carrying firearms in the late Nineteenth Century. Does anyone know when the British decided to disarm their police force?

London Bobbies on night partols had the option of carrying a Webley & Scott revolver in late 19th Century. And of course firearms were issued when needed, e.g. Siege of Sidney St.

But up to this day the normal bobbies are not armed, they got to call Authorised Firearms Officer (AFO) when extra firepower is needed.

K&P 317

== Counterclockwise? that does not sound really British ==

When Holmes was high as a kite and experimenting with the flies, he mentioned they flew in "counterclockwise" formation. I am not a linguistic expert, but a British would say "Anticlockwise" instead. So - here I ask, Was it some different speech habit of 19th centry or just because Robert Downey Jr. came from the States? K&P 317
::What's interesting is that British 'English' from the 19th century was different than the English (From UK) that we know now. I was laughing when someone pointed out that the BRITISH were the ones who created and used the term "Soccer" for football, not the Americans. In fact it was used almost 50/50 each time the sport was described. Now I'll never criticize "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" again. ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

==Date==
Lord Blackwood makes a comment that the American Civil War has recently ended, yet many of the weapons featured are from the late 1870's. If I knew more about architecture I could probably pinpoint a year based on the bridge being constructed, but as it stands I am forced to ask if anyone knows what year this film takes place in? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::He may be referring to it as 'recent history' but you're right in that 10-15 years doesn't seem like recent history to most people. I still think of when I was in Gulf War One and then I go OMG! That was 20 !!! years ago! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:55, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like he meant it was recent because he says "The Civil War has left them weak," which by the 1870's and the so-called "Guilded Age" was not true, and by the late 1870's when some of the film's weapons were made, reconstruction had ended. In order for his statement to be justified it seems it would have to be in the late 1860's to the first few years of the 1870's after we had demobilized our war-time army yet were still recovering from the war. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

It would have to be 1892 or so, since part of it takes place on an Unfinished Tower Bridge. I've seen pictures of it in different stages of construction and Tower Bridge in 1892 looks the closest to how it looks in this film.

Or Lord Blackwood thought that the American goverment was inept and Americans were a pushover.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

==Police weapons==
As this film clearly shows, British police were not always unarmed. Does anyone know why the hell the British ever thought it was a good idea to disarm their cops. (FYI, parts of Britian still have huge crime problems including alot of violent crime.)

Aside from the fact the Metropolitan police was not originally armed when it was formed to counter fears about armed enforcers. Also, never assume a film is factually accurate. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:17, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

This film speaks the truth, up to the point that in 1891 when this film is set London police could be issued firearms (as the main article states). However, this was up to personal preference and the use of firearms declined due to lack of an actual need to carry them until the 1930s when they were officially retired. There was a rise in police firearms carry in the 50s and 60s after a number of unarmed officers were shot and killed, when about 17% of London officers were armed. However, after this there were a number of cases of civilian deaths from police firearms, and since then police firearms regulations have been severely tightened and in this day, about 7% of The Met are armed. In short, to answer your question of when British police were disarmed, they never were as they were never really armed.--[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 22:45, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you for the specific informaiton.

It's always surprised me that the first official modern police force in the world went from having guns to none, to getting them back, to utter giving them crap while the police forces in other parts of the world like the US had seen an escalation of firearms to counter the growing crime rates. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:50, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

:Especially because certian areas of Britain have very high violent crime rates too.

==New Sherlock==

Has anyone seen that new Sherlock Holmes on the BBC? I saw a few guns in the last episode, looks like a SIG P226 though I might be wrong. If anyone has the DVD I would appreciate them checking and replying. Cheers; --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 18:57, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I've seen it. Set in 2010. It's a good show, but it appears all the handguns are "non-guns". Non firing replicas though they have working parts. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:58, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh, OK. The guns were in shadows so it was hard to tell. Thanks anyway;--[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 21:09, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Holmes' pistol was referred as a L9A1 by Prof. M., i.e. standard Royal Army issue of Browning HP.
(Jolly crossed by Holmes ditched the pipe and wearing nicotine patches.)
K&P317

I think Watson also carried a SIG.

I made an article on it. Go [[Sherlock|here]].--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 04:05, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

==Adlers revolver==

Now, i admit i'm not an expert on guns.... However, i have to say there is no way that the revolver Irene Adler uses is a Colt New Line 38 caliber revolver. just compare it to the resin/rubber stunt gun. they're nothing alike at all. Adlers gun is double action, whereas the colt new line clearly is a single action, not to mention Adlers gun has a foldable trigger, and the Colt new line doesn't.

If you can identify it feel free and make the changes. That's what imfdb is all about. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:22, 20 June 2011 (CDT)

== Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows ==

I was thinking maybe we should begin the Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows page. Ive already identified two of the weapons, by watching the trailer. One is the Vickers machinegun and the other is the Mauser Gewehr 1888, used in the forest scenes. What do you guys think ?-G36Ghost

:There is also a C96 pattern pistol held by Downey JR, in one of the posters for the film. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:00, 27 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Call of Juarez: The Cartel

2011-10-24T23:02:22Z

Rebusdi: /* Desert Eagle as Ben McCall's Preferred Sidearm */ new section

==MAC-10==
I just checked the the official website of this game and he is definitely holding a suppressed [[Steyr TMP]] and not a MAC-10. - [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]

== How many games have featured Ciudad Juarez, Mexico now? ==

Back in the days of [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2]] which featured that city as a terrorist hotspot, supposedly the Mayor of Ciudad Juarez at the time claimed it was going to scare tourists away from that city (which is kind of funny given what's going on there now). José Reyes of Chihuahua (a state in Mexico) also called for the game's banning in Mexico.

I can't help but wonder if this game will stir up controversy again. Still, I think Mexico's past the stage now where they can try to pretend that a negative fictional portrayal of their cities or other locations in their country will actually be far worse than what's happening there now . . . --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 02:19, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I remember that about GRAW. The governor of Chihuahua ordered the game seized by authorities if sold on Mexican soil. They really do need to be more concerned with the ''reality'' of the country rather than some game company's fiction set in it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:03, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

==Unknown Pistol and AK==
I found a bigger picture through Google, and I believe it's a Beretta M9, or some variant. It looks like the AK is either an AK-74, or an AKM. - [[User:1morey]], February 13, 2011 9:20 AM (EST).
:That AK variant has to be an AK-47; it has a milled receiver and lacks a slanted compensator. -[[User:Deafmatch|Deafmatch]] 15:52, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
::That's ''milled'' receiver. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:04, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
:::I'll just pretend that never happened. -[[User:Deafmatch|Deafmatch]] 17:51, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
::::We'll keep it between you, me, and anyone who reads this page. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:39, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

==controversial already==

Seen multiple news articles condemning this game, just makes me want it more now.

I can see why, the original Call of Juarez-es were westerns and were pretty much the only videogame FPS-es to gain any sort of acclaim. Taking it into the present kills what was it's main selling point, although I did enjoy the second one and will probably pick it up when the price goes down. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]]

==Just a thought==
I don't want to sound like a jerk but there is no such thing as a "Beretta M92FS". It is "M9" or "92FS", bus since there will be no U.S. Military in this game (probably) it should be 92FS. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 21:23, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Also on the topic of Berettas, the gun listed as a Desert Eagle is definately a two-tone Beretta 92FS [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 02:49, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

==Unknown sniper rifle==

The PSO-1 scope on it suggests the SVD or any Dragunov derivative. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:05, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

It has a hooded front sight like the Type 56, could it be a NDM-86? --[[Special:Contributions/85.3.178.52|85.3.178.52]] 02:06, 5 March 2011 (MSK)

It really looks like a Remington R700

First, sign your posts Anonymous User, second, the first "unknown sniper rifle" was indentified as a Dragunov, your talking about the second sniper rifle, but yeah I did thought It look like a R700. - [[User:1morey]] July 19, 2011 10:26 PM (EST)

==The Characters==

I am a fan of the series, and while the characters do look cheesy (In an awesome/good way), I have to say, they remind me of famous celebs:

Ben McCall- The bastard child of Cordell Walker and Randy Savage.

Eddie Guerra- Ali G

Kim Evans- Halle Berry

P.S. BTW, I found out the connection of this game to the series. Ben is a descendant of Billy Candle (From the first Call of Juarez), and is the spiritual successor to Reverend Ray McCall. Sorry if this was mention on the main page. Also, the antagonist is the Mendoza Cartel, which either Juarez' Gang wasn't totally destroyed in the first two games, or they are relatives of Juarez. [[User:1morey]] March 16, 2011 3:56 PM (EST)
:I don't know about the Juarez gang but I remember I have killed Juarez in the first game at least twice, and also in the prequel. LOL [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:06, 16 March 2011 (CDT)
::Same here! He must be immortal or something...[[User:SeanWolf]]

== Your "Wishlist" ==

On the offcial Call of Juarez: The Cartel website, the game states there will be 30 different weapons to choose (The list states: pistols, revolvers, sub machine guns, machine guns, assault rifles, shotguns, sniper rifles, anti-air weapons and more). So my question is, what guns would you like to see in this game. My wishlist is:

1. Smith & Wesson Schofield (As a reference to previous games)
2. Heckler & Koch G3A4
3. RPG-7
4. Browning M2
5. Any form of Glock
6. Heckler & Koch PSG-1
7. A MAC-10, or MAC-11
8. Skorpion
9. Uzi
10. Any form of SIG-Sauer
11. Remington 700
12. Benelli M4
13. Heckler & Koch MP5
14. Colt 1911
15. Cobray Street Sweeper
16. FN FAL
17. AR-15
18. Walther PPk
19. SW MP-10
20. Colt Detective Special
21. Smith & Wesson Model 29
22. M72 LAW
23. M16 (SP1)
24. .475 Wildey Magnum
25. Intratec TEC-9
26. Ruger Mini-14
27. Mendoza HM-3
28. Hk MSG90
29. P90
30. FN Five-Seven
31. Mossberg 500
32. Winchester 1912
33. Micro Uzi

-[[User:1morey]] April 15, 2011 10:04 PM (EST)

I'd like t see a Kimber Custom II in there.--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:55, 16 April 2011 (CDT)
:I'm a fan of the series and I hope this game will include some "unique" weapons. I'm really tired of seeing a Desert Eagle, an MP5 variant and a Beretta 92xx in every G**damn game that comes out. I want a G.I. Expert, some kind of a Kimber pistol or an AA-12. Anyways, as long as they won't include semi-auto-only FALs and converted G17's I think this game will be fun. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:50, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

I'm pretty confident that a Glock 22 will be in the game (As Kim is an FBI Agent, they are issued Glock 22 pistols.)
Here is a list of firearms that have a pretty good chance of being in the game: Beretta 8045, S&W 459, S&W 5904, S&W 5903, S&W 659, S&W 5906, S&W 645, S&W 4506, S&W 4566, S&W 4567, S&W 5903 TSW, S&W 5906 TSW, S&W 4569 TSW, S&W 4566 TSW, Glock 17, Glock 19, Glock 22, Glock 23, Glock 27, Glock 34, Glock 35, Kimber Custom TLE II, MP5A2, AR-15, CAR-15, M4A1, Benelli M4, Benelli M3, Mossberg 500, SIG SG552, Colt Model 933, S&W M&P Pistol, SIG Pro, or UMP40.
- [[User:1morey]] April 20, 2011 5:42 PM
1. Glock 17
2. SIG-Saurer P226
3. Steyr AUG A2
4. SMAW

1. SIG-Saurer P220
2. Glock 22
3. USP-40
4. Browning Hi-Power
5. Walther P99
6. Makarov PM
7. Cobray Street Sweeper
8. UMP45
9. P90
10. Mk14 Mod 0 EBR
11. FN-FAL
12. SIG-SG 556
13. Steyr AUG
14. Carl Gustav M/45
15. Typ 69 RPG
16. Browning M2
17. C4
18. M67 Frag Grenade

:Wishlists for a game '''not''' made by you is silly. ^3^ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:42, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

== TMP ==

TMP with full length rail on top? Never knew that existed... - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 02:25, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:Are you being sarcastic? :D Anyway, just changed it to a MP-9. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:15, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

== Handguns ==

I really like the selection of pistols in this game. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:40, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

This must be one of the first games to feature a S&W semi auto. I can't think of anything else that has done. The pistols selection is brilliant, I'm still hoping that there will be a last minute reveal on a Kimber :D --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:12, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

:I've never seen a Jericho 941 in a game before. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:43, 20 July 2011 (CDT)

Neither have I actually lol. It's good that they're getting a nice wide range of handguns for the players to use because I love going around with pistols instead of long guns in games. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:19, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== The CZ 75 ==

Is it me or it does look strange?
[http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/gamesites/uplay/api/Games/COJ3/rewards/reward3-118.jpg]
No slide release or safety. and why is the slide so short? --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:45, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:Yes it does. The P99's all goofed up too, no slide release and weird trigger guard. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:52, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

== Desert Eagle as Ben McCall's Preferred Sidearm ==

Could someone justify this. I've been playing the game as Eddie and always see Ben with a two-tone Beretta. Thanks. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:02, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2011-10-24T13:11:54Z

Rebusdi: /* Colt Carbine/Model 653/Model 727/Model 733 */

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:BattleLA M16A4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 (5.56x45mm) with ACOG scope, RIS foregrip, Magpul MBUS rear sight, and AN/PEQ-15 IR designator as seen in ''[[Battle: Los Angeles]]'']]
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in ''[[Uncommon Valor]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film ''[[Scarface]]''. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A1 with 20-round magazine, fitted with scope - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mockcommando.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:GUU-5P.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GUU-5/P - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Colt Law Enforcement Model 6920 Carbine..jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Law Enforcement Carbine with ACOG scope and PentagonLight MD3R weaponlight, screen-used weapon from ''[[I Am Legend]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M148.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm with a mounted [[XM148 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:K3B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Olympic Arms K3B carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A3 Carbine with EOTech red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A4M203ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 rifle - 5.56x45mm with ACOG scope and M203 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:CAXM177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Classic Army XM177 airsoft replica rifle - 5.56x45mm (of the type used by SF troops in some scenes of the movie ''[[Green Zone]]'').]]
[[Image:M653M203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 653 5.56x45mm with magazine removed and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:Cam15a4tacticalcarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Classic Army M15A4 airsoft carbine rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt AR15 Match Target Competition HBAR II 6731.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Colt AR15 Match Target HBAR II (Model MT6731) - 5.56x45mm]]
this is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

An airsoft gun and a cap gun aren't the same thing. LOL [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:43, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Caddilac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

So why not update this page to include current issue M16A4 rifles?
(unless you don't know what they are....)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16 series are the ONLY assault rifles (except the [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:g41-series&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&Itemid=5/ HK G41], which is made to be like the M16 and is no longer produced) in the world to have a forward assist. Why don't other assault rifles have a forward assist? (ie. the AK-74, G36 etc.) Because other assault rifles are more reliable and don't need it. :)
::Uh more associated with the design of the Bolt than being more reliable. The AK series have a bolt handle attached DIRECTLY to the bolt carrier as do many other designs. If there is debris or fouling in the chamber which keeps a round from seating properly you can just jam the handle forward (I've done this in the field when my AK / Garand / Galil / M 14 / etc jammed) I once had a tiny piece of bark (I was firing under trees) which fell from above and fell into the ejection port and made the round 'stick' really badly in the chamber so that it would not seat properly. The M16 design has no way other than the forward assist to nudge the bolt & carrier forward enough to fire and kick that crap free of the action. But I wouldn't bash the M16 as an "unreliable" rifle. I'd sure take it into battle right now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright, I understand. thanks for the extra info. I'm not saying the M16/M4 is a complete piece of crap, but it's definitely not the BEST ASSAULT RIFLE IN THE WORLD! like we Americans like to state all the time (*rolls eyes*). You and me both know the M16/M4 is no where as reliable as the G36 or the AK series. But at least it's better than the L85 series, now that's a piece crap rifle. :D *Edit: Well at least the L85A1, the L85A2 is OK. kinda like the M16/M16A1s sucks but the M16A2/A4s are good.

::::I have to completely disagree with what you say, i don't wish to come off as passive aggresive but you sound like a mall ninja that learned their weapons knowledge from seeing them perform in videogames or hearing public opinions on weapons from the news or other sources. The M16 family of rifles are both fine and fairly reliable weapons, while much of that view has been skewed by the fact they were portrayed as unreliable during conflicts such as Vietnam, is incorrect to a degree. The M16 is a reliable and capable weapon when cleaned and properly maintained, it simply lacks the ability to stay so when not properly serviced, as some other rifles such as the AKM can function fine without cleaning, the M16 can not. As for your comment on the L85 series, yes they were somewhat poor and unreliable weapons at first, coupled with poor grips and clumsy to handle for certain users, however the newer models have made large improvements and are very capable firearms. As i feel it needs to be said (or typed) a common mistake people make is assuming that militaries have access and funding to field their troops with the best weapons available, which is not always the case as most countries don't have the money to field an Army with rifles that can cost up to $5000-10000 per unit. Which is where the workhorses like M16's come in, you go for the "good" rifle not the "great" one. Also, although off-topic it somewhat pertains to the M16, most mall ninja's assume the AK-family is better because it is more reliable and fires a heavier cartridge, I've always asked "would you want a round that's going to pierce right through an enemy and leave an easy to treat wound, or have a round that hits an enemy and fragments inside them causing an ungodly bloody mess?" Hopefully esteemed imfdb members such as MPM2008 will agree with and share my viewpoint concerning this subject, as well as not condemn me for my long comment. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 13:24, 06 March 2011 (UTC)

::::The issues of jamming during the Vietnam War had more to do with ammunition and the lack of a chrome-lined chamber and barrel than the rifle's so-called "dirty" gas system. In 1964 the Army switched from stick powder to ball powder, which increased the rate of fire to over 1,000 RPM and left a lot of dirty residue in the weapon. This was only exacerbated by the lack of cleaning kits and training on how to maintain the weapon. They fixed the issue by fitting the rifle with a buffer system (which slowed the ROF down) and chrome-plated chamber. Training programs in weapon maintenance were instituted and an instruction book on how to maintain the rifle was circulated among troops. After further modifications resulted in the M16A1, many of the reliability issues disappeared (although even today, the weapon has yet to shed its bad reputation). The M16A2, A3, A4, and M4 carbine of today are an entirely different breed of warrior than the prototypes that were issued back in the 60s. While it may admittedly be a bit finicky, the M16 today is a good weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah but it's still a very fussy weapon, it's not very durable, and it has much more malfunctions/jams then say the H&K G36, but none the less it's still a excellent weapons platform, mostly. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- No prob, dude - I'm just glad you got what I was gettin' at. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

i would be shocked if they couldnt pick their weapons. their the best soldiers on the planet. it just doesnt make sense not to be able to. it would be like giving a star baseball player a 10 dollar glove. itll do but why wouldnt they get the best thats out there. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Reg army units use the burst M4, not the full auto A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

A couple of months ago when I was at a military base there were Marines conducting a weapons demo with the M4 carbine. It was the 3-round burst rifle, but a question came up about the M4A1. One Marine said that they got rid of all M4A1s and only have M4s. I personally don't see the need for a full-auto rifle and 3-round burst is fine because it forces the user to slow down and most of the time the user uses semi-only, combat or not, but that is my opinion. The M4A1 is still probabley used by the US Military, but I'm not sure, I haven't seen one in a long time.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Accurized Rifle ==

After seeing several pages of real firearms appearing in only one film or game, I was wondering if I should expand this page with a new section for the [http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp Colt Accurized Rifle], which to my knowledge has only ever appeared in [[S.W.A.T. 4]]. Before I do that, I need to confirm two things:

*Is the Colt Accurized Rifle indeed another variant on the M16 line of rifles, or a separate take on the AR-15 design altogether? I suppose there's a reason why we don't include the [[Z-M LR 300]] in the M16 page because it's the latter--I need to know if the Colt Accurized Rifle falls in that category.
*Including it on this page would make it the first Designated Marksman Rifle variant here. So far I only see assault rifles or carbines here. Would including a DMR in this page be a problem or not?

If there are no real problems, I'll make a new section for it, but I have no idea where I'll get a non-copyright infringment image of one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:It'd be the '''second''' DMR on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but can someone confirm that the Colt Accurized Rifle is indeed descended from the M16 line of assault rifles and not a separate take on the AR-15 design like the aforementioned LR-300 is? I still have no idea where I can get a photo of this DMR that respects copyright. All I have are game screenshots. Some help here, please? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Removeable Carry Handle for Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Does such a Gun exist?

:Not as a production gun (Colt's website makes no mention of one, anyway), but the modular nature of the AR system makes such a configuration entirely possible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==Why do we have a Colt AR-15 SP1 category that is separate from the M16/SP1 category?==
The guns look the same, sure the SP1 had a design change in 1978 (three prong flash hider was changed to birdcage, rear sling swivel was changed to A1 style and the color went from greenish grey to straight grey) but unless we see the stamp on the side that says "Property of U.S. Government" we can't tell if it's a real M16 (which WERE sold via Title II dealers to armories) and a Colt AR15 SP1 which was converted to full auto (which was done A LOT prior to 1986). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== About M4 Commando and M16A4 Full Auto ==

Full Auto M16A4 (Model 905) is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901]

[http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com_2.asp Model 933] ''is'' M4 Commando (Full Auto)

[http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp Manufacturer's site] says it all.

== Colt Model 653 barrel length ==

Am trying to pin down what a gun is for a page I'm working on. It has a forward assist but no deflector, A1 rear sight, M4 length tubular handguard, 16" barrel with birdcage flash hider and a solid stock. Basically it matches the gun in the picture for the Model 653 on the main page, apart from having a solid stock but that is easily changeable. However, every source I can find about the 653 says that it has a 14" barrel. Was the gun made in different barrel lengths but kept the same designation, and if not, anyone know what the gun is that is pictured as a 653? Also, while I'm on the topic of obscure colt carbines, does anyone know of a model that will match a 725 (original C8 without the flat-top) but has an A2 rear sight? Thanks, --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:16, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Can anyone figure out what this is? ==

I found this hidden in my computer, I think it's a Colt Canada C7A1 as a base, I can tell it's C7 because of the Canadian leaf on the the lower receiver, it would be an A1 because of the removable carrying-handle. What the heck is that hand-guard? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:02, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
[[Image:Colt Canada C7A1 SPW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C7A1 SPW?]]

::Colt Model 750/Diemaco C7 Light Support Weapon - A modified C7 with an enlarged gas tube (hence the square handguard) and a heavy barrel for sustained fire in the squad automatic weapon role. The C7 LSW is not used by the Canadian Forces but has seen service with the Dutch and Danish militaries. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:34, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
:::Ha! I thought so, thanks. :) Should I remove this section or keep it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

::That's not Colt LSW, that's [http://www.colt.com/mil/CAR.asp Colt Automatic Rifle]. Follow the link and you will see that the image is the larger version of the official one. Meanwhile, [http://www.coltcanada.com/lsw-page.htm Colt LSW] has optional folding carry handle. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:09, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
[[File:Lsw-annot.jpg]]
:::Thanks guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:02, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

::Just to clarify, the Colt automatic rifle, LSW and LMG are all the same weapon. The original version that looks like the one above was the Colt Model 750, which featured a fixed A2 carry handle and barrel mounted bi-pod, and the newer version above is the current production Model 950, with the relocated bi-pod and A4 rear sights. As you said, the folding carry handle is removeable, and the picture on the Colt website is just one without it fitted (note the longer centre vent on the top of the handguard is the mounting point for the handle). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:48, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
:::The original version was based on M16A1:

[[File:M16A1 CAR.jpg]]

:::The one you described was based on M16A2:

[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg]]

Guys, remember back in the 1980s when Colt was trying to vie for the SAW role? Sure the FN Minimi was never knocked off its perch, but Colt came out with a Colt light Machine gun that looked a lot like this. They were selling the barreled uppers on the market for a while in the early 1990s (I know a few friends who have them, but I never got one). This looks like that reincarnated!!! LOL![[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:24, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
:Well, that's all written on [http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/m16-lsw-lmg-e.html Modern Firearms] :P

::Ah yes, you only read about it monkeyboy ;) I was handling and firing that sucker! LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:11, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, and I've found articles of why AR is more advantageous than SAW to US Marine Corps:

:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-employment-concepts M249 Employment Concepts]
:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-light-machinegun-automatic-rifle-role The M249 Light Machinegun In The Automatic Rifle Role]

: Interesting reading, methinks :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 30 April 2011 (CDT)
::Yeah it was. :) You know, I kinda knew LMGs were dying out. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:07, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
::: Not overall, it's just the role they are being used in (automatic rifleman). SAW is still very good in defensive role and laying fire on attacking forces ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

== Heat Dissipation Performance of Carbine Barrel Types? ==

I was wondering, does anyone know what kind of effects the 'cuts' (originally meant for the mounting of the M203 grenade launcher) in the barrel of the M4 and similiarly-styled M16 & AR-15 series carbines has on the heat dissipation performance of the barrel? Do the cuts help the weapon release heat from prolonged firing better than a barrel that has a uniform thickness, or does it hamper that? Any input anyone can provide on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:46, 8 May 2011 (CDT)
:The step down for the grenade launcher is actually pretty negligible in terms of cooling (although it does create a point of weakness to bending), as what you can't see is the fact that as soon as the barrel goes under the handguard it is reduced down to the same narrow diameter as in the cut out, which creates a much bigger effect on cooling. The narrower profile sections have the effect of cooling down the barrel quicker, but they also conversely mean that the barrel heats up quicker, and the heat has a larger effect on the accuracy of the gun. The main advantage however is that it reduces the weight quite a bit. The original reason that the M4 barrel reduces in size behind the handguard is based on the M16A2, which does exactly the same thing where its heavy barrel is actually only thicker past the front sight. This was due to a cock up in the design, where they designed the gun with a full thickness straight barrel, and found that they could then no longer clamp the M203 to the barrel, so the barrels were simply turned down from behind the front sight post. The front of the barrel was left thick due to the fact that the thinner barrels on the M16A1 were being bent at the front from being used as pry-bars to get the loading bands off of shipping pallets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:There is a heavier "SOCOM-profile" barrel that maintains the same diameter beneath the handguards as the standard M4-profile barrel does around the M203 cut and it can mount the M203 just fine.[http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BCM-URG-M4-14SOCOM-2.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:40, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== can you tell me what model of m16/car 15 this is ==

sorry i do not have a pic but i can tell you what is like. me and my dad were talikng about some of the guns he used in the army and he was telling me about this one he said was like an carbine version of the m16a2 and it was like the m4 but had a fixed carring handle and it was used befor the m4 it had safe semi and burst and he said it just had ar15 on the side.-Steviebleckley

:Sounds like the first batch of M4s that were delivered. This is the Colt Model 777, which is basically an M4 with a fixed carry handle, and 3-round burst as opposed to full auto. It is the brother of and visually identical to the 727 mentioned on the main page, where the 727 as full auto as opposed to the burst. If it didn't have the M4 profile barrel though, god knows. Probably a model 654 on an M16 lower receiver or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:02, 13 June 2011 (CDT)

yes it had the same profile as the m4. i gess it was the 777.I will show him the pic of the the 727 since there the same well the 727 is full auto thanks for the info - Steviebleckley

== Question about the buffer tube ==

I'm not one hundred percent sure what it does, and (like the forward assist) that almost no other guns have it. If someone could just clarify, what does it do, why does this rifle series have it, and why don't others/what replaces the buffer tube in other rifles? Thank you in advance. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:27, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
:Basically, it was installed in order to slow down the rate of fire. The very first M16s ended up using a different ammunition powder than they were designed for, which caused a higher rate of fire than desired (about 800 to 1000 rpm I think), leading to excessive fouling in the chamber, and hence lots of stopages. From the M16E1 onwards a buffer tube was added to slow the rate of fire to about 600-700 rpm, and a chrome lined chamber and barrel was added as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:47, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
I'm not sure if this is practical in any way, or even possible, but is their a way to increase the rate of fire on an M16 without the problems of the carbon build-up in the chamber?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)
:Why would you want to increase the rate of fire? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)
No reason, just wondering if it's even possible with a full-auto M16.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 08:09, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:Probably, I see no reason why you couldn't. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm assuming the reason that the high rate of fire caused fouling was that the rate of fire was so quick that the bolt was unlocking and opening before all the powder was fully burnt in the chamber, leaving residue. I'd imagine that you could increase the rate of fire by removing the buffer, and just make sure that whatever powder you were using was fully burnt in the time it takes the bolt to open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:29, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::That would make sense, since I heard the nightmare version of that was when the gas pressure was still holding the spent case in place while the extractor was trying to eject it, which tended to result in Horrible Things happening to the case while it was still inside the rifle. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

This might be a silly question, but why is it that the AR-15 design required the buffer tube, and other rifles do not? Is it just located differently, and if so why? It just strikes me that the lack of a folding stock option is a poor design, especially when compared to most assault rifles designed today, SCAR, ACR, etc. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:57, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm guessing here, but from what I've read it's that the rifle had already been designed, so they had to work inside the box, as it were. The only options were either to make the components of the action a lot heavier so their momentum prevented the weapon cycling too fast (which would rather defy the point of using a lightweight aluminium receiver and suchlike) or add something on to slow it down, which is what they did. Rifles designed since have been designed from the ground up to avoid this kind of problem, so don't need to have a tube attached to a hole in the back of the receiver to fix them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:The buffer tube does two things: 1) contains the buffer and spring and 2) allows the bolt carrier to recoil part of the way into it. The combination means that the AR15-series rifles are functionally a long-recoil design where the bolt does not slam into anything rigid during recoil and stops based on the pressure of the buffer spring. This--in turn--enhances the straight-line recoil and therefore controllability during automatic fire or rapid semi-automatic fire. It also allows the AR15 design to use the rear of the bolt carrier to actuate the automatic sear meaning the probability in this design that you can set a round off with the bolt unlocked during automatic fire is nil. (Look up some of the problems with the "Lightning Link" to get a better idea of why this works the way it does.)

:Other designs often do incorporate additional recoil buffers in the stock, the FN FAL's without folding stocks do this and the plastic-stocked SAW's, but the AR15 design simply trades the ability to fold a stock for enhanced recoil handling... The idea behind the design was to make a weapon where the entire recoil force is in a direct line between your shoulder and the end of the barrel with as little jarring as possible. This is also one reason for the use of a direct gas impingement system and one reason why gas-piston AR's tend to eat the front of the buffer tube and buffer tube area of the lower receiver due to bolt carrier "tilt". The "lateral" forces of the piston tapping the top of the bolt carrier misaligns the bolt carrier off its straight line path and pushes that chunk of steel into the aluminum.

:Oh, and the forward assist is to compensate for not having a rigidly connected bolt handle. (Like someone already mentioned). The reason why is the design is meant to be operated in a manner where you ONLY use the charging handle for initial loading and then unloading at the end (administratively). Every other time, you actuate the bolt using the bolt release on the left side of the weapon... --[[User:Deathbunny|Deathbunny]] 01:28, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Noob Question ==

Ok I have a really dumb question, what is the difference between the Colt M4A1 and the Colt M4A1 Carbine? Or are they the same exact thing? The only reason I asked is when I was looking at the page, the M4A1 and the M4 Carbine look exactly the same, so how can you tell one from the other? - [[User:1morey]] July 22, 2011 11:21 AM (EST)

: The M4A1 and M4A1 'Carbine' are the same thing, the 'carbine' is just optionally showing the proper firearm type. As for the M4 and M4A1, well it ''does'' say the difference in the section but to answer - the M4 has Safe-Semi-Burst fire selection ala the M16A2/M16A4, the M4A1 has full-automatic instead of burst, ala the earlier M16s/M16A1/M16A3. Otherwise they're pretty much identical appearance wise (The M4A1 also has a heavier barrel inside the handguard, which of course you can't tell from the outside). It also notes some commercial AR-15 carbines are given an 'M4' moniker, but aren't the same as actual military M4s. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 12:17, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt or not? ==

If a M4 or M16 variant is listed on a page, should it by prefixed by Colt? I've noticed some people doing this but isn't it incorrect as the term M16 is the army designation as opposed to the Colt name (for example the Colt Model 603 for the M16A1). Either way, I would imagine that quite a few M16s or M4s in movies are manufactured by companies other than Colt, and even the US military rifles are not necessarily made by Colt these days. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:43, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:I am curious... if the military M4 and M16 are not made by Colt these days then by whom? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:58, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::There was a stretch in the 1990s when Colt lost the military contract and all the M16s were built by Fabrique Nationale (FN). Though many companies build AR15 platforms, only the company who has the contract with the Dept. of Defense can call the M16 theirs. If there ARE any other manufacturers being represented on the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq, someone needs to find out. I certainly don't have any contacts who would know information which is THAT current. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:48, 6 September 2011 (CDT)
::::FN have stated that “the vast majority of M16A2, A3 and A4 contracts as well as spare parts contracts for these systems since 1989”, and they had a $7 million contract to make M16A4s between 2005 and 2008. Sabre defence also won a contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles in July 2008 for the US navy/Marine corps respectively. Having said that FN also stated: ”...never was FN Manufacturing LLC, or any other small arms manufacturer, awarded M4 contracts. The M4 cannot be competed and always has been awarded sole source to Colt because of licensing rights restricting full and open competition until 2009” although it has stated its intention to bid for M4 contracts past this point. The US government took ownership of the M4 design on the 1st July 2009, so the M4 can now be manufactured for the government by other companies, but I don't know if this has actually been done yet. Regardless, M4 and M16 are government designations, so surely calling a gun a "Colt M4" is incorrect? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:09, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Just checked the United States Army [http://www.army.mil/features/ official website]. It lists [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m4.html M4 Carbine] as being manufactured by Colt and [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m16.html M16 Rifle] by Colt and Fabrique Nationale.
:::::Oh, and take a note of M16: ''"The '''M-16A3''' is identical to the M-16A2 but has a removable carrying handle that is mounted on a Picatinny Rail (for better mounting of optics) and is without burst control. The '''M-16A4''' is identical to the M-16A2 except for the removable carrying handle and Picatinny Rail."''
:::::United States Marine Corps websites: [http://www.marines.mil/] [http://www.marines.com/] don't mention the current manufacturer for [http://www.marines.com/main/index/winning_battles/gear/weapons_and_equipment/m16 M16 Rifle]. So I am not sure about them. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Just to throw a bit of confusion in here, there are actually a number of different rifles designated as the M16A3 by the US military. The first is the Colt Model 646, also known as the M16A2E3, which was introduced in small numbers at the same time as the M16A2 and is an A2 with an A1 lower. Then you have the flat-top Colt Model 901 which was introduced at the same time as the M16A4 (in 1994 I think) and I'm assuming this is the version that the above page refers to. You also have the Colt Models 941 and 942 which are the HBAR and HBAR LMG models respectively, but I don't know if they are used. Not that any of this really matters as we identify all these guns as A2/A4 anyway. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Well, that's because armorers don't have access to military M16A3s, so they just slap A2/A4 uppers to A1 lowers (correct?) because what Hollywood film director would want fixed burst firing gun (ignoring the fact that that's what soldiers and marines use) ? Or modify civilian semi-automatic replicas to fully automatic fire. In which case the weapon is to be identified as such. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:54, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::::Didn't mean to imply we are doing anything wrong, just that the definition of the A3 models isn't that important as they don't appear. Having said that, the original M16A3/M16A2E3 was just an A2 upper on an A1 lower, so this is actually what a number of movie guns are, but I understand that they are going for a standard A2. Regardless, back to my original question, do we call them Colt or not? My opinion is no obviously, as it seems that some if not the majority of M16s are manufactured by other companies, and there is the future possibility of this with M4, and regardless it is a military designation of a rifle that goes by another Colt name. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:31, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::::My opinion: M4 & M4A1 should remain as Colt. And so should older M16s. Modern M16s (M16A3 & M16A4), since they have ''at least'' 3 official manufacturers (Colt, Fabrique Nationale and Sabre Defence), should go without Colt. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:37, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== How to NOT shoot an M16 rifle! ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI] - Seriously, this is either really funny, or just painful to watch... you decide. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:19, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, that was bad. Glad that guy's alright! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:46, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::Also, notice how many times the gun clicks and the guy keeps saying it's a "bad primer". And then he keeps hitting the forward assist, pulling on the charging handle (which is seen ejecting the unfired rounds) and hitting the bottom of the magazine even though it's already back in the gun after he kept taking it out and putting it back in prior (Someone else in the video even says 'Jesus [name withheld], you don't know how to load these.' and the shooter responds with 'I didn't load these, [name withheld] did.'). I think that could have been a contribution to the gun exploding in his hands. But then again, I'm not the expert on M16 rifles, I'm only guessing. Anyone else got a better explanation? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 17:05, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
:::It was the shooter saying that the guy who came to help didn't know how to load them, and then that assisting guy said it was someone else. There is nothing wrong with tapping the magazine even when it appears to be seated correctly, as it makes sure it is all the way into the well. Although he did hit forward assist unnecesarily once or twice, I don't think it would have done any harm or contributed to the kaboom. The file description and all the comments say that this was a squib, and it was all the shooters fault for not identifying it and checking the barrel (there are also quite a few people that seem to think it is possible the load 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber at a time by repeatedly pulling the charging handle, but this is Youtube after all). But I don't think it was, as on the first misfire there was only the click of the hammer, and when he pulled the bolt back a round was ejected which wouldn't have been chambered if the previous "bang" was a squib. I've never fired a round with primer but no powder, but surely there would still be an audible "bang" rather than just the click of the hammer? When exactly did the bullet get stuck in the barrel, or am I missing something? Regardless, I would never use ammo I hadn't loaded myself, particularly not done by a friend of a friend. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:33, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
::::I think it's safe to say that the idea of unintentionally loading 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber of an M16 rifle is an overstatement and pretty much absurd (I've NEVER heard of such a thing happening with the M16 rifles). But one person's explanation in the comments is that when the hammer struck the primers of the "squib" rounds, the 'click' in question was the popping of the primer, which popped with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of the gun, but without the 'bang' sound since the powder of the "squib" rounds were bad. So when the explosion happened, it was because the hammer struck a perfectly fine round, or one with enough charge in it's powder load, and that bullet impacted the other bullets stuck in the barrel, which caused a high-pressure situation ending with the magazine blowing apart, and leaving the M16 rifle damaged (probably for good). Talk about good craftsmanship going to waste! But at least the shooter in the video was not injured in any way. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:51, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::I could be wrong as have never done it myself (I am not a moron) but I am fairly sure that a primer going off with no powder in the round makes a louder noise than just a click, which is all that is heard in this video. Anyone know how loud just the primer from a .223 would be? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:05, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Apparently [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS1K1zJQhOQ this] is a .308 primer. Now bear in mind how far down the audio is turned (as you don't have to wear ear protection when he fires), I can ''kinda'' see that might end up sounding like a click. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:52, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Yeah, most of the time all cameras (except for maybe the professional ones used by filmmakers) capture certain sounds differently. It is possible for the primers of "squib" rounds to discharge with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of whatever gun it's fired from (and sometimes it will stay there until the owner disassembles their weapon and removes the lodged bullet), and most of the time, the "popping" sound of the primers sounds like a "click" when captured on a camera similar to the one used in the video of the M16 blowing up in that guy's face. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:28, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:I've seen this video before, looks like the guy was pulling a half-assed SPORTS drill several times while the weapon was malfunctioning on him. But yeah, shooting custom-loaded ammo with no reliable means of quality control is definitely not a good idea, as this video clearly demonstrates. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:52, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== Not working ==

Why is the M16 page not working. It locks up my computer, and the network wont respond. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes before it will work.[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:It might be your browser and / or RAM is having trouble with the size of it; this is the largest page on the site. What's the spec of your PC? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:03, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

==Difference between original M16 and M16A2==
I know how to distinguish XM16E1s, M16A1s, and M16A4s from each other, but how are both the M16 and the M16A2 different visually? Both rifles have no forward assist or removable carrying handles and the M16 can also appear with a "birdcage" flash hider. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:34, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:M16-SP1-30Mag.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|M16 aka SP1 (flat "slab side receiver") with an A1 "birdcage" Flash hider - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]

:I'll try. Also with the caveat that I have to replace the movie M16s on the site. An IMFDB member whom I am eternally grateful for, pointed out that I had A2 lowers on A1 uppers. Though that works, it's also not correct. I have to replace the M16 pics with exact versions of each one, but that will take time. I just point this out to make sure that people know I'm aware of it.

1) M16: original USAF contract in Vietnam and in the U.S. slab side upper and lower, 1st pattern duckbill three prong flash hider, original buttstock with foldable rear sling swivel. Early models had counter-turning screws in stead of pivot pins to attach the upper and lower receiver.

1) XM16E1: 2nd pattern three prong flash hider, Chromed bolt, exposed mag release button (no ribbing) but there is a partial rib for the front pivot detent pin and spring, old M16 style buttstock and rear sling swivel, tear drop forward assist.

2) M16A1: Birdcage Flash hider, Phosphate bolt but chromed chamber, mag release button ribbing to protect against accidental mag dump and full ribbing to the front pivot detent pin and spring, A1 style buttstock with fixed rear sling swivel (with stowaway compartment in the buttplate)

3) M16A2: A2 style flash hider with no holes on the lower part, ring washer instead of lock washer, heavy barrel, round forearm, full ribbing on mag release button and front pivot detent pin and spring, front part of lower receiver is beefier and thicker as well as the rear part near the base of the tube ring. Updated and longer (by about 1") rear buttstock and thicker buttplate, slight finger ledge on the pistol grip about midway down. Adjustable rear sights with elevation control as well as side to side. A2 does NOT have a detachable carry handle.

Hope this helps. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:26, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

:Don't forget that the M16A2 has semi/3-round burst as opposed to semi/full auto in the M16 (though you rarely see this feature used on-screen as most directors feel the full auto looks better than a 3-round burst). [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:15, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
No versions of the M16 has screws rather than push pins at the front of the receiver. The only rifles that have these are the Sporter 1 rifles (which is what all of the pictures on the main page are actually of). The M16s that pre-date the captive push pin (Models 601 and 602) have a large headed push pin that is held in place by a ball detent on the pin itself. Also, the "M16" category can be separated out into 3 different guns which the USAF used seqeuntially in turn. First is the original 601 which has green furniture, original "duckbill" flash hider and triangular charging handle (around 14,500 were made, 8,500 to USAF, 1,000 to the Army for evaluation and the rest to special forces, police, and a number of Asian countries). The 602 is the quintessential slab sided M16, and introduced the updated 3 pronged flash hider, black furniture, the current "T" shaped charging handle. The third "M16" is what is often called the USAF M16 and was the most produced variant, and was the Model 604. Early versions had the M16E1 type partial fence lower, whilst the later versions had the M16A1 full fence lower, and these weapons continued to be used by Air Force until 2001, when all M16s were updated to the A2 standard. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:58, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
::Cool! Thanks [[User:Commando552|commando552]] As I've said before, I pulled movie armory weapons. Very rarely do I get access to actual firearms museums, but then 99% of the full auto guns were probably sporter conversions, since it was much easier to convert a title I to a class III gun prior to 1986. I have a LONG laundry list of photos to update thanks to you guys! ;) But the information helps. Also only in recent months have i realized how many franken guns were built in the 1970s/80s and 90s on the M16 platform. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:24, 21 October 2011 (CDT)

Pics of the different M16s I mentioned above:
[[File:Colt 601.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 601 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt 602.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 602 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:USAF Colt Model 604.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 604 (USAF M16) - 5.56x45mm]]
--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:48, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

== Historical Question ==

Anyone knows why XM177 never dropped the 'X' letter in it? If 'X' usually implies the prototype and testing stage, then why did XM177 have it with both upgrades and use in service, and the jamming M16s in Vietnam didn't? Or some other reasons? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:02, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Ignoring the USAF rifles (which got official GAU designations) the US Army only purchased a few thousand XM177s and the kinks were never really ironed out, so it is fair to call it an XM program still. Rifle was still in development stages really when US Army cut the funding due to Vietnam war involvement being scaled back.. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:27, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

::Were the Colt Commandos used in Somalia much more refined versions of XM177 program? If yes, I wonder why they were not put back in official service... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Carbine/Model 653/Model 727/Model 733 ==

Firstly, forgive my ignorance in things regarding the variety of AR-15 models. In the model description it says that it was 'never adopted formally by the US Military, and thus never had an "M" or "XM" designation.' However, in the following section where it lists the movies in which we can find this rifle it is often found as the M653. Can someone more knowledgeable either clear up why there is this discrepancy? Thanks --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:34, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Editors (and video game developers) often confuse the 'Model', 'M' and 'MK' designations. M653 should be changed to Model 653. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:14, 24 October 2011 (CDT)
::Correct. Model "___" is the official COLT designation and usually comes first. Only when the weapon is adopted as an official front line weapon does it get the "M" designation. And all these minutia of details in the weapons history STILL gives me a headache! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:01, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

:::So does that mean we need to clean up this section to take all the 'M's away?--[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 08:11, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Hotel Rwanda

2011-10-23T23:57:13Z

Rebusdi: /* Beretta 92 Section */ new section

==Unknowns==
'''[moved from main page]''' --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:32, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Guns I can't even guess the make and model of.
[[Image:HRunknown-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|As if the distance didn't make it hard enough, this gun looks like nothing I've seen.]]
it looks slightly like a High standard M10 but the barrel is to long and it has a stock both features a non-existent on all the models of this gun that I've ever seen.
[[Image:HRunknown-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Belgians UN soldier with an unknown LMG, noted by carry handle. Note Beta-C drum magazine.]]
:This one with the Beta-C drum looks like some kind of M16 variant. You can see the fore end of the weapon in that familiar tube and the rear sights. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 00:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
::Could it be an FNC? That would be standard issue.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]] 00:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:War]]
Is that a carrying handle on it? If so, then it could not be an FNC, and it is not very likely that it is an M16 variant with a carrying handle (the forward stock does not match the Colt LMG).[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 20:01, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

==Beretta 92FS==
[[Image:HRBeretta92FS-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Interahamwe sticks his Beretta 92FS in Paul's face.]]

It could be a Centurion --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 07:09, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

== MG3 ==

It was not manufactured by HK, as said on this page

== Beretta 92 Section ==

If anyone else agrees, I think this section needs to be cleaned up. I am some what confused by the statement that it is 'only 1994', as to what was the original author's intent. It read a bit clunky and too much apocrypha. Thoughts? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:57, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2011-10-23T23:35:00Z

Rebusdi: /* Colt Carbine/Model 653/Model 727/Model 733 */ new section

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:BattleLA M16A4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 (5.56x45mm) with ACOG scope, RIS foregrip, Magpul MBUS rear sight, and AN/PEQ-15 IR designator as seen in ''[[Battle: Los Angeles]]'']]
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in ''[[Uncommon Valor]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film ''[[Scarface]]''. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A1 with 20-round magazine, fitted with scope - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mockcommando.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:GUU-5P.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GUU-5/P - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Colt Law Enforcement Model 6920 Carbine..jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Law Enforcement Carbine with ACOG scope and PentagonLight MD3R weaponlight, screen-used weapon from ''[[I Am Legend]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M148.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm with a mounted [[XM148 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:K3B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Olympic Arms K3B carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A3 Carbine with EOTech red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A4M203ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 rifle - 5.56x45mm with ACOG scope and M203 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:CAXM177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Classic Army XM177 airsoft replica rifle - 5.56x45mm (of the type used by SF troops in some scenes of the movie ''[[Green Zone]]'').]]
[[Image:M653M203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 653 5.56x45mm with magazine removed and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:Cam15a4tacticalcarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Classic Army M15A4 airsoft carbine rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt AR15 Match Target Competition HBAR II 6731.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Colt AR15 Match Target HBAR II (Model MT6731) - 5.56x45mm]]
this is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

An airsoft gun and a cap gun aren't the same thing. LOL [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:43, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Caddilac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

So why not update this page to include current issue M16A4 rifles?
(unless you don't know what they are....)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16 series are the ONLY assault rifles (except the [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:g41-series&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&Itemid=5/ HK G41], which is made to be like the M16 and is no longer produced) in the world to have a forward assist. Why don't other assault rifles have a forward assist? (ie. the AK-74, G36 etc.) Because other assault rifles are more reliable and don't need it. :)
::Uh more associated with the design of the Bolt than being more reliable. The AK series have a bolt handle attached DIRECTLY to the bolt carrier as do many other designs. If there is debris or fouling in the chamber which keeps a round from seating properly you can just jam the handle forward (I've done this in the field when my AK / Garand / Galil / M 14 / etc jammed) I once had a tiny piece of bark (I was firing under trees) which fell from above and fell into the ejection port and made the round 'stick' really badly in the chamber so that it would not seat properly. The M16 design has no way other than the forward assist to nudge the bolt & carrier forward enough to fire and kick that crap free of the action. But I wouldn't bash the M16 as an "unreliable" rifle. I'd sure take it into battle right now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright, I understand. thanks for the extra info. I'm not saying the M16/M4 is a complete piece of crap, but it's definitely not the BEST ASSAULT RIFLE IN THE WORLD! like we Americans like to state all the time (*rolls eyes*). You and me both know the M16/M4 is no where as reliable as the G36 or the AK series. But at least it's better than the L85 series, now that's a piece crap rifle. :D *Edit: Well at least the L85A1, the L85A2 is OK. kinda like the M16/M16A1s sucks but the M16A2/A4s are good.

::::I have to completely disagree with what you say, i don't wish to come off as passive aggresive but you sound like a mall ninja that learned their weapons knowledge from seeing them perform in videogames or hearing public opinions on weapons from the news or other sources. The M16 family of rifles are both fine and fairly reliable weapons, while much of that view has been skewed by the fact they were portrayed as unreliable during conflicts such as Vietnam, is incorrect to a degree. The M16 is a reliable and capable weapon when cleaned and properly maintained, it simply lacks the ability to stay so when not properly serviced, as some other rifles such as the AKM can function fine without cleaning, the M16 can not. As for your comment on the L85 series, yes they were somewhat poor and unreliable weapons at first, coupled with poor grips and clumsy to handle for certain users, however the newer models have made large improvements and are very capable firearms. As i feel it needs to be said (or typed) a common mistake people make is assuming that militaries have access and funding to field their troops with the best weapons available, which is not always the case as most countries don't have the money to field an Army with rifles that can cost up to $5000-10000 per unit. Which is where the workhorses like M16's come in, you go for the "good" rifle not the "great" one. Also, although off-topic it somewhat pertains to the M16, most mall ninja's assume the AK-family is better because it is more reliable and fires a heavier cartridge, I've always asked "would you want a round that's going to pierce right through an enemy and leave an easy to treat wound, or have a round that hits an enemy and fragments inside them causing an ungodly bloody mess?" Hopefully esteemed imfdb members such as MPM2008 will agree with and share my viewpoint concerning this subject, as well as not condemn me for my long comment. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 13:24, 06 March 2011 (UTC)

::::The issues of jamming during the Vietnam War had more to do with ammunition and the lack of a chrome-lined chamber and barrel than the rifle's so-called "dirty" gas system. In 1964 the Army switched from stick powder to ball powder, which increased the rate of fire to over 1,000 RPM and left a lot of dirty residue in the weapon. This was only exacerbated by the lack of cleaning kits and training on how to maintain the weapon. They fixed the issue by fitting the rifle with a buffer system (which slowed the ROF down) and chrome-plated chamber. Training programs in weapon maintenance were instituted and an instruction book on how to maintain the rifle was circulated among troops. After further modifications resulted in the M16A1, many of the reliability issues disappeared (although even today, the weapon has yet to shed its bad reputation). The M16A2, A3, A4, and M4 carbine of today are an entirely different breed of warrior than the prototypes that were issued back in the 60s. While it may admittedly be a bit finicky, the M16 today is a good weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah but it's still a very fussy weapon, it's not very durable, and it has much more malfunctions/jams then say the H&K G36, but none the less it's still a excellent weapons platform, mostly. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- No prob, dude - I'm just glad you got what I was gettin' at. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

i would be shocked if they couldnt pick their weapons. their the best soldiers on the planet. it just doesnt make sense not to be able to. it would be like giving a star baseball player a 10 dollar glove. itll do but why wouldnt they get the best thats out there. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Reg army units use the burst M4, not the full auto A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

A couple of months ago when I was at a military base there were Marines conducting a weapons demo with the M4 carbine. It was the 3-round burst rifle, but a question came up about the M4A1. One Marine said that they got rid of all M4A1s and only have M4s. I personally don't see the need for a full-auto rifle and 3-round burst is fine because it forces the user to slow down and most of the time the user uses semi-only, combat or not, but that is my opinion. The M4A1 is still probabley used by the US Military, but I'm not sure, I haven't seen one in a long time.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Accurized Rifle ==

After seeing several pages of real firearms appearing in only one film or game, I was wondering if I should expand this page with a new section for the [http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp Colt Accurized Rifle], which to my knowledge has only ever appeared in [[S.W.A.T. 4]]. Before I do that, I need to confirm two things:

*Is the Colt Accurized Rifle indeed another variant on the M16 line of rifles, or a separate take on the AR-15 design altogether? I suppose there's a reason why we don't include the [[Z-M LR 300]] in the M16 page because it's the latter--I need to know if the Colt Accurized Rifle falls in that category.
*Including it on this page would make it the first Designated Marksman Rifle variant here. So far I only see assault rifles or carbines here. Would including a DMR in this page be a problem or not?

If there are no real problems, I'll make a new section for it, but I have no idea where I'll get a non-copyright infringment image of one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:It'd be the '''second''' DMR on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but can someone confirm that the Colt Accurized Rifle is indeed descended from the M16 line of assault rifles and not a separate take on the AR-15 design like the aforementioned LR-300 is? I still have no idea where I can get a photo of this DMR that respects copyright. All I have are game screenshots. Some help here, please? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Removeable Carry Handle for Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Does such a Gun exist?

:Not as a production gun (Colt's website makes no mention of one, anyway), but the modular nature of the AR system makes such a configuration entirely possible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==Why do we have a Colt AR-15 SP1 category that is separate from the M16/SP1 category?==
The guns look the same, sure the SP1 had a design change in 1978 (three prong flash hider was changed to birdcage, rear sling swivel was changed to A1 style and the color went from greenish grey to straight grey) but unless we see the stamp on the side that says "Property of U.S. Government" we can't tell if it's a real M16 (which WERE sold via Title II dealers to armories) and a Colt AR15 SP1 which was converted to full auto (which was done A LOT prior to 1986). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== About M4 Commando and M16A4 Full Auto ==

Full Auto M16A4 (Model 905) is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901]

[http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com_2.asp Model 933] ''is'' M4 Commando (Full Auto)

[http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp Manufacturer's site] says it all.

== Colt Model 653 barrel length ==

Am trying to pin down what a gun is for a page I'm working on. It has a forward assist but no deflector, A1 rear sight, M4 length tubular handguard, 16" barrel with birdcage flash hider and a solid stock. Basically it matches the gun in the picture for the Model 653 on the main page, apart from having a solid stock but that is easily changeable. However, every source I can find about the 653 says that it has a 14" barrel. Was the gun made in different barrel lengths but kept the same designation, and if not, anyone know what the gun is that is pictured as a 653? Also, while I'm on the topic of obscure colt carbines, does anyone know of a model that will match a 725 (original C8 without the flat-top) but has an A2 rear sight? Thanks, --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:16, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Can anyone figure out what this is? ==

I found this hidden in my computer, I think it's a Colt Canada C7A1 as a base, I can tell it's C7 because of the Canadian leaf on the the lower receiver, it would be an A1 because of the removable carrying-handle. What the heck is that hand-guard? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:02, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
[[Image:Colt Canada C7A1 SPW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C7A1 SPW?]]

::Colt Model 750/Diemaco C7 Light Support Weapon - A modified C7 with an enlarged gas tube (hence the square handguard) and a heavy barrel for sustained fire in the squad automatic weapon role. The C7 LSW is not used by the Canadian Forces but has seen service with the Dutch and Danish militaries. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:34, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
:::Ha! I thought so, thanks. :) Should I remove this section or keep it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

::That's not Colt LSW, that's [http://www.colt.com/mil/CAR.asp Colt Automatic Rifle]. Follow the link and you will see that the image is the larger version of the official one. Meanwhile, [http://www.coltcanada.com/lsw-page.htm Colt LSW] has optional folding carry handle. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:09, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
[[File:Lsw-annot.jpg]]
:::Thanks guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:02, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

::Just to clarify, the Colt automatic rifle, LSW and LMG are all the same weapon. The original version that looks like the one above was the Colt Model 750, which featured a fixed A2 carry handle and barrel mounted bi-pod, and the newer version above is the current production Model 950, with the relocated bi-pod and A4 rear sights. As you said, the folding carry handle is removeable, and the picture on the Colt website is just one without it fitted (note the longer centre vent on the top of the handguard is the mounting point for the handle). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:48, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
:::The original version was based on M16A1:

[[File:M16A1 CAR.jpg]]

:::The one you described was based on M16A2:

[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg]]

Guys, remember back in the 1980s when Colt was trying to vie for the SAW role? Sure the FN Minimi was never knocked off its perch, but Colt came out with a Colt light Machine gun that looked a lot like this. They were selling the barreled uppers on the market for a while in the early 1990s (I know a few friends who have them, but I never got one). This looks like that reincarnated!!! LOL![[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:24, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
:Well, that's all written on [http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/m16-lsw-lmg-e.html Modern Firearms] :P

::Ah yes, you only read about it monkeyboy ;) I was handling and firing that sucker! LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:11, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, and I've found articles of why AR is more advantageous than SAW to US Marine Corps:

:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-employment-concepts M249 Employment Concepts]
:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-light-machinegun-automatic-rifle-role The M249 Light Machinegun In The Automatic Rifle Role]

: Interesting reading, methinks :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 30 April 2011 (CDT)
::Yeah it was. :) You know, I kinda knew LMGs were dying out. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:07, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
::: Not overall, it's just the role they are being used in (automatic rifleman). SAW is still very good in defensive role and laying fire on attacking forces ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

== Heat Dissipation Performance of Carbine Barrel Types? ==

I was wondering, does anyone know what kind of effects the 'cuts' (originally meant for the mounting of the M203 grenade launcher) in the barrel of the M4 and similiarly-styled M16 & AR-15 series carbines has on the heat dissipation performance of the barrel? Do the cuts help the weapon release heat from prolonged firing better than a barrel that has a uniform thickness, or does it hamper that? Any input anyone can provide on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:46, 8 May 2011 (CDT)
:The step down for the grenade launcher is actually pretty negligible in terms of cooling (although it does create a point of weakness to bending), as what you can't see is the fact that as soon as the barrel goes under the handguard it is reduced down to the same narrow diameter as in the cut out, which creates a much bigger effect on cooling. The narrower profile sections have the effect of cooling down the barrel quicker, but they also conversely mean that the barrel heats up quicker, and the heat has a larger effect on the accuracy of the gun. The main advantage however is that it reduces the weight quite a bit. The original reason that the M4 barrel reduces in size behind the handguard is based on the M16A2, which does exactly the same thing where its heavy barrel is actually only thicker past the front sight. This was due to a cock up in the design, where they designed the gun with a full thickness straight barrel, and found that they could then no longer clamp the M203 to the barrel, so the barrels were simply turned down from behind the front sight post. The front of the barrel was left thick due to the fact that the thinner barrels on the M16A1 were being bent at the front from being used as pry-bars to get the loading bands off of shipping pallets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:There is a heavier "SOCOM-profile" barrel that maintains the same diameter beneath the handguards as the standard M4-profile barrel does around the M203 cut and it can mount the M203 just fine.[http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BCM-URG-M4-14SOCOM-2.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:40, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== can you tell me what model of m16/car 15 this is ==

sorry i do not have a pic but i can tell you what is like. me and my dad were talikng about some of the guns he used in the army and he was telling me about this one he said was like an carbine version of the m16a2 and it was like the m4 but had a fixed carring handle and it was used befor the m4 it had safe semi and burst and he said it just had ar15 on the side.-Steviebleckley

:Sounds like the first batch of M4s that were delivered. This is the Colt Model 777, which is basically an M4 with a fixed carry handle, and 3-round burst as opposed to full auto. It is the brother of and visually identical to the 727 mentioned on the main page, where the 727 as full auto as opposed to the burst. If it didn't have the M4 profile barrel though, god knows. Probably a model 654 on an M16 lower receiver or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:02, 13 June 2011 (CDT)

yes it had the same profile as the m4. i gess it was the 777.I will show him the pic of the the 727 since there the same well the 727 is full auto thanks for the info - Steviebleckley

== Question about the buffer tube ==

I'm not one hundred percent sure what it does, and (like the forward assist) that almost no other guns have it. If someone could just clarify, what does it do, why does this rifle series have it, and why don't others/what replaces the buffer tube in other rifles? Thank you in advance. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:27, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
:Basically, it was installed in order to slow down the rate of fire. The very first M16s ended up using a different ammunition powder than they were designed for, which caused a higher rate of fire than desired (about 800 to 1000 rpm I think), leading to excessive fouling in the chamber, and hence lots of stopages. From the M16E1 onwards a buffer tube was added to slow the rate of fire to about 600-700 rpm, and a chrome lined chamber and barrel was added as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:47, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
I'm not sure if this is practical in any way, or even possible, but is their a way to increase the rate of fire on an M16 without the problems of the carbon build-up in the chamber?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)
:Why would you want to increase the rate of fire? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)
No reason, just wondering if it's even possible with a full-auto M16.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 08:09, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:Probably, I see no reason why you couldn't. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm assuming the reason that the high rate of fire caused fouling was that the rate of fire was so quick that the bolt was unlocking and opening before all the powder was fully burnt in the chamber, leaving residue. I'd imagine that you could increase the rate of fire by removing the buffer, and just make sure that whatever powder you were using was fully burnt in the time it takes the bolt to open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:29, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::That would make sense, since I heard the nightmare version of that was when the gas pressure was still holding the spent case in place while the extractor was trying to eject it, which tended to result in Horrible Things happening to the case while it was still inside the rifle. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

This might be a silly question, but why is it that the AR-15 design required the buffer tube, and other rifles do not? Is it just located differently, and if so why? It just strikes me that the lack of a folding stock option is a poor design, especially when compared to most assault rifles designed today, SCAR, ACR, etc. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:57, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm guessing here, but from what I've read it's that the rifle had already been designed, so they had to work inside the box, as it were. The only options were either to make the components of the action a lot heavier so their momentum prevented the weapon cycling too fast (which would rather defy the point of using a lightweight aluminium receiver and suchlike) or add something on to slow it down, which is what they did. Rifles designed since have been designed from the ground up to avoid this kind of problem, so don't need to have a tube attached to a hole in the back of the receiver to fix them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:The buffer tube does two things: 1) contains the buffer and spring and 2) allows the bolt carrier to recoil part of the way into it. The combination means that the AR15-series rifles are functionally a long-recoil design where the bolt does not slam into anything rigid during recoil and stops based on the pressure of the buffer spring. This--in turn--enhances the straight-line recoil and therefore controllability during automatic fire or rapid semi-automatic fire. It also allows the AR15 design to use the rear of the bolt carrier to actuate the automatic sear meaning the probability in this design that you can set a round off with the bolt unlocked during automatic fire is nil. (Look up some of the problems with the "Lightning Link" to get a better idea of why this works the way it does.)

:Other designs often do incorporate additional recoil buffers in the stock, the FN FAL's without folding stocks do this and the plastic-stocked SAW's, but the AR15 design simply trades the ability to fold a stock for enhanced recoil handling... The idea behind the design was to make a weapon where the entire recoil force is in a direct line between your shoulder and the end of the barrel with as little jarring as possible. This is also one reason for the use of a direct gas impingement system and one reason why gas-piston AR's tend to eat the front of the buffer tube and buffer tube area of the lower receiver due to bolt carrier "tilt". The "lateral" forces of the piston tapping the top of the bolt carrier misaligns the bolt carrier off its straight line path and pushes that chunk of steel into the aluminum.

:Oh, and the forward assist is to compensate for not having a rigidly connected bolt handle. (Like someone already mentioned). The reason why is the design is meant to be operated in a manner where you ONLY use the charging handle for initial loading and then unloading at the end (administratively). Every other time, you actuate the bolt using the bolt release on the left side of the weapon... --[[User:Deathbunny|Deathbunny]] 01:28, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Noob Question ==

Ok I have a really dumb question, what is the difference between the Colt M4A1 and the Colt M4A1 Carbine? Or are they the same exact thing? The only reason I asked is when I was looking at the page, the M4A1 and the M4 Carbine look exactly the same, so how can you tell one from the other? - [[User:1morey]] July 22, 2011 11:21 AM (EST)

: The M4A1 and M4A1 'Carbine' are the same thing, the 'carbine' is just optionally showing the proper firearm type. As for the M4 and M4A1, well it ''does'' say the difference in the section but to answer - the M4 has Safe-Semi-Burst fire selection ala the M16A2/M16A4, the M4A1 has full-automatic instead of burst, ala the earlier M16s/M16A1/M16A3. Otherwise they're pretty much identical appearance wise (The M4A1 also has a heavier barrel inside the handguard, which of course you can't tell from the outside). It also notes some commercial AR-15 carbines are given an 'M4' moniker, but aren't the same as actual military M4s. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 12:17, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt or not? ==

If a M4 or M16 variant is listed on a page, should it by prefixed by Colt? I've noticed some people doing this but isn't it incorrect as the term M16 is the army designation as opposed to the Colt name (for example the Colt Model 603 for the M16A1). Either way, I would imagine that quite a few M16s or M4s in movies are manufactured by companies other than Colt, and even the US military rifles are not necessarily made by Colt these days. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:43, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:I am curious... if the military M4 and M16 are not made by Colt these days then by whom? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:58, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::There was a stretch in the 1990s when Colt lost the military contract and all the M16s were built by Fabrique Nationale (FN). Though many companies build AR15 platforms, only the company who has the contract with the Dept. of Defense can call the M16 theirs. If there ARE any other manufacturers being represented on the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq, someone needs to find out. I certainly don't have any contacts who would know information which is THAT current. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:48, 6 September 2011 (CDT)
::::FN have stated that “the vast majority of M16A2, A3 and A4 contracts as well as spare parts contracts for these systems since 1989”, and they had a $7 million contract to make M16A4s between 2005 and 2008. Sabre defence also won a contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles in July 2008 for the US navy/Marine corps respectively. Having said that FN also stated: ”...never was FN Manufacturing LLC, or any other small arms manufacturer, awarded M4 contracts. The M4 cannot be competed and always has been awarded sole source to Colt because of licensing rights restricting full and open competition until 2009” although it has stated its intention to bid for M4 contracts past this point. The US government took ownership of the M4 design on the 1st July 2009, so the M4 can now be manufactured for the government by other companies, but I don't know if this has actually been done yet. Regardless, M4 and M16 are government designations, so surely calling a gun a "Colt M4" is incorrect? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:09, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Just checked the United States Army [http://www.army.mil/features/ official website]. It lists [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m4.html M4 Carbine] as being manufactured by Colt and [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m16.html M16 Rifle] by Colt and Fabrique Nationale.
:::::Oh, and take a note of M16: ''"The '''M-16A3''' is identical to the M-16A2 but has a removable carrying handle that is mounted on a Picatinny Rail (for better mounting of optics) and is without burst control. The '''M-16A4''' is identical to the M-16A2 except for the removable carrying handle and Picatinny Rail."''
:::::United States Marine Corps websites: [http://www.marines.mil/] [http://www.marines.com/] don't mention the current manufacturer for [http://www.marines.com/main/index/winning_battles/gear/weapons_and_equipment/m16 M16 Rifle]. So I am not sure about them. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Just to throw a bit of confusion in here, there are actually a number of different rifles designated as the M16A3 by the US military. The first is the Colt Model 646, also known as the M16A2E3, which was introduced in small numbers at the same time as the M16A2 and is an A2 with an A1 lower. Then you have the flat-top Colt Model 901 which was introduced at the same time as the M16A4 (in 1994 I think) and I'm assuming this is the version that the above page refers to. You also have the Colt Models 941 and 942 which are the HBAR and HBAR LMG models respectively, but I don't know if they are used. Not that any of this really matters as we identify all these guns as A2/A4 anyway. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Well, that's because armorers don't have access to military M16A3s, so they just slap A2/A4 uppers to A1 lowers (correct?) because what Hollywood film director would want fixed burst firing gun (ignoring the fact that that's what soldiers and marines use) ? Or modify civilian semi-automatic replicas to fully automatic fire. In which case the weapon is to be identified as such. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:54, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::::Didn't mean to imply we are doing anything wrong, just that the definition of the A3 models isn't that important as they don't appear. Having said that, the original M16A3/M16A2E3 was just an A2 upper on an A1 lower, so this is actually what a number of movie guns are, but I understand that they are going for a standard A2. Regardless, back to my original question, do we call them Colt or not? My opinion is no obviously, as it seems that some if not the majority of M16s are manufactured by other companies, and there is the future possibility of this with M4, and regardless it is a military designation of a rifle that goes by another Colt name. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:31, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::::My opinion: M4 & M4A1 should remain as Colt. And so should older M16s. Modern M16s (M16A3 & M16A4), since they have ''at least'' 3 official manufacturers (Colt, Fabrique Nationale and Sabre Defence), should go without Colt. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:37, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== How to NOT shoot an M16 rifle! ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI] - Seriously, this is either really funny, or just painful to watch... you decide. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:19, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, that was bad. Glad that guy's alright! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:46, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::Also, notice how many times the gun clicks and the guy keeps saying it's a "bad primer". And then he keeps hitting the forward assist, pulling on the charging handle (which is seen ejecting the unfired rounds) and hitting the bottom of the magazine even though it's already back in the gun after he kept taking it out and putting it back in prior (Someone else in the video even says 'Jesus [name withheld], you don't know how to load these.' and the shooter responds with 'I didn't load these, [name withheld] did.'). I think that could have been a contribution to the gun exploding in his hands. But then again, I'm not the expert on M16 rifles, I'm only guessing. Anyone else got a better explanation? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 17:05, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
:::It was the shooter saying that the guy who came to help didn't know how to load them, and then that assisting guy said it was someone else. There is nothing wrong with tapping the magazine even when it appears to be seated correctly, as it makes sure it is all the way into the well. Although he did hit forward assist unnecesarily once or twice, I don't think it would have done any harm or contributed to the kaboom. The file description and all the comments say that this was a squib, and it was all the shooters fault for not identifying it and checking the barrel (there are also quite a few people that seem to think it is possible the load 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber at a time by repeatedly pulling the charging handle, but this is Youtube after all). But I don't think it was, as on the first misfire there was only the click of the hammer, and when he pulled the bolt back a round was ejected which wouldn't have been chambered if the previous "bang" was a squib. I've never fired a round with primer but no powder, but surely there would still be an audible "bang" rather than just the click of the hammer? When exactly did the bullet get stuck in the barrel, or am I missing something? Regardless, I would never use ammo I hadn't loaded myself, particularly not done by a friend of a friend. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:33, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
::::I think it's safe to say that the idea of unintentionally loading 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber of an M16 rifle is an overstatement and pretty much absurd (I've NEVER heard of such a thing happening with the M16 rifles). But one person's explanation in the comments is that when the hammer struck the primers of the "squib" rounds, the 'click' in question was the popping of the primer, which popped with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of the gun, but without the 'bang' sound since the powder of the "squib" rounds were bad. So when the explosion happened, it was because the hammer struck a perfectly fine round, or one with enough charge in it's powder load, and that bullet impacted the other bullets stuck in the barrel, which caused a high-pressure situation ending with the magazine blowing apart, and leaving the M16 rifle damaged (probably for good). Talk about good craftsmanship going to waste! But at least the shooter in the video was not injured in any way. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:51, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::I could be wrong as have never done it myself (I am not a moron) but I am fairly sure that a primer going off with no powder in the round makes a louder noise than just a click, which is all that is heard in this video. Anyone know how loud just the primer from a .223 would be? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:05, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Apparently [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS1K1zJQhOQ this] is a .308 primer. Now bear in mind how far down the audio is turned (as you don't have to wear ear protection when he fires), I can ''kinda'' see that might end up sounding like a click. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:52, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Yeah, most of the time all cameras (except for maybe the professional ones used by filmmakers) capture certain sounds differently. It is possible for the primers of "squib" rounds to discharge with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of whatever gun it's fired from (and sometimes it will stay there until the owner disassembles their weapon and removes the lodged bullet), and most of the time, the "popping" sound of the primers sounds like a "click" when captured on a camera similar to the one used in the video of the M16 blowing up in that guy's face. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:28, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:I've seen this video before, looks like the guy was pulling a half-assed SPORTS drill several times while the weapon was malfunctioning on him. But yeah, shooting custom-loaded ammo with no reliable means of quality control is definitely not a good idea, as this video clearly demonstrates. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:52, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== Not working ==

Why is the M16 page not working. It locks up my computer, and the network wont respond. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes before it will work.[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:It might be your browser and / or RAM is having trouble with the size of it; this is the largest page on the site. What's the spec of your PC? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:03, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

==Difference between original M16 and M16A2==
I know how to distinguish XM16E1s, M16A1s, and M16A4s from each other, but how are both the M16 and the M16A2 different visually? Both rifles have no forward assist or removable carrying handles and the M16 can also appear with a "birdcage" flash hider. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:34, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:M16-SP1-30Mag.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|M16 aka SP1 (flat "slab side receiver") with an A1 "birdcage" Flash hider - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]

:I'll try. Also with the caveat that I have to replace the movie M16s on the site. An IMFDB member whom I am eternally grateful for, pointed out that I had A2 lowers on A1 uppers. Though that works, it's also not correct. I have to replace the M16 pics with exact versions of each one, but that will take time. I just point this out to make sure that people know I'm aware of it.

1) M16: original USAF contract in Vietnam and in the U.S. slab side upper and lower, 1st pattern duckbill three prong flash hider, original buttstock with foldable rear sling swivel. Early models had counter-turning screws in stead of pivot pins to attach the upper and lower receiver.

1) XM16E1: 2nd pattern three prong flash hider, Chromed bolt, exposed mag release button (no ribbing) but there is a partial rib for the front pivot detent pin and spring, old M16 style buttstock and rear sling swivel, tear drop forward assist.

2) M16A1: Birdcage Flash hider, Phosphate bolt but chromed chamber, mag release button ribbing to protect against accidental mag dump and full ribbing to the front pivot detent pin and spring, A1 style buttstock with fixed rear sling swivel (with stowaway compartment in the buttplate)

3) M16A2: A2 style flash hider with no holes on the lower part, ring washer instead of lock washer, heavy barrel, round forearm, full ribbing on mag release button and front pivot detent pin and spring, front part of lower receiver is beefier and thicker as well as the rear part near the base of the tube ring. Updated and longer (by about 1") rear buttstock and thicker buttplate, slight finger ledge on the pistol grip about midway down. Adjustable rear sights with elevation control as well as side to side. A2 does NOT have a detachable carry handle.

Hope this helps. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:26, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

:Don't forget that the M16A2 has semi/3-round burst as opposed to semi/full auto in the M16 (though you rarely see this feature used on-screen as most directors feel the full auto looks better than a 3-round burst). [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:15, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
No versions of the M16 has screws rather than push pins at the front of the receiver. The only rifles that have these are the Sporter 1 rifles (which is what all of the pictures on the main page are actually of). The M16s that pre-date the captive push pin (Models 601 and 602) have a large headed push pin that is held in place by a ball detent on the pin itself. Also, the "M16" category can be separated out into 3 different guns which the USAF used seqeuntially in turn. First is the original 601 which has green furniture, original "duckbill" flash hider and triangular charging handle (around 14,500 were made, 8,500 to USAF, 1,000 to the Army for evaluation and the rest to special forces, police, and a number of Asian countries). The 602 is the quintessential slab sided M16, and introduced the updated 3 pronged flash hider, black furniture, the current "T" shaped charging handle. The third "M16" is what is often called the USAF M16 and was the most produced variant, and was the Model 604. Early versions had the M16E1 type partial fence lower, whilst the later versions had the M16A1 full fence lower, and these weapons continued to be used by Air Force until 2001, when all M16s were updated to the A2 standard. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:58, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
::Cool! Thanks [[User:Commando552|commando552]] As I've said before, I pulled movie armory weapons. Very rarely do I get access to actual firearms museums, but then 99% of the full auto guns were probably sporter conversions, since it was much easier to convert a title I to a class III gun prior to 1986. I have a LONG laundry list of photos to update thanks to you guys! ;) But the information helps. Also only in recent months have i realized how many franken guns were built in the 1970s/80s and 90s on the M16 platform. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:24, 21 October 2011 (CDT)

Pics of the different M16s I mentioned above:
[[File:Colt 601.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 601 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt 602.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 602 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:USAF Colt Model 604.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 604 (USAF M16) - 5.56x45mm]]
--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:48, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

== Historical Question ==

Anyone knows why XM177 never dropped the 'X' letter in it? If 'X' usually implies the prototype and testing stage, then why did XM177 have it with both upgrades and use in service, and the jamming M16s in Vietnam didn't? Or some other reasons? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:02, 23 October 2011 (CDT)
: Ignoring the USAF rifles (which got official GAU designations) the US Army only purchased a few thousand XM177s and the kinks were never really ironed out, so it is fair to call it an XM program still. Rifle was still in development stages really when US Army cut the funding due to Vietnam war involvement being scaled back.. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:27, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Carbine/Model 653/Model 727/Model 733 ==

Firstly, forgive my ignorance in things regarding the variety of AR-15 models. In the model description it says that it was 'never adopted formally by the US Military, and thus never had an "M" or "XM" designation.' However, in the following section where it lists the movies in which we can find this rifle it is often found as the M653. Can someone more knowledgeable either clear up why there is this discrepancy? Thanks --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:34, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

Hot Shots! Part Deux

2011-10-23T23:16:42Z

Rebusdi: /* Heckler & Koch HK94 (Chopped and Converted, Mocked Up as MP5A3) */

Hot Shots! Part Deux

2011-10-23T23:14:51Z

Rebusdi: /* Saco Defense M60E3 Short */ Misspelling Harley, not Harvey

Talk:Hawaii Five-0 (2010) - Season 1

2011-10-22T10:18:34Z

Rebusdi: /* Taurus PT25?(Oct 2011) */

==Taurus PT25?(Oct 2011)==
Here's some Blu-ray pics of the unknown pistol in E Malama. Taurus PT25? Any more ideas? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:27, 18 October 2011 (CDT)
[[File:H50S1 76.jpg|thumb|none|700px]]
[[Image:Hawaii Five 0 compact pistol silenced.jpg|thumb|none|700px|The cleaner raising her suppressed compact pistol. Can anyone read the engraving on the slide?]]
[[Image:Hawaii Five 0 compact pistol silenced a.jpg|thumb|none|700px|The pistol aimed at the witness.]]

The engraving to the best of my ability reads ".32ACP MW Candina?, CA" no idea what that means though.

[[File:TaurusPT25.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Unknown pistol at first glance looks like a Taurus PT25, but slightly different features. - Redtornado

Its a Silver Grendel P-10 --Сергей Титов

Could it be a Magnum Research Micro Desert Eagle? A lot is right, but a lot is also wrong like the curved front of the trigger guard. This is a really confusing pistol. Based on the diameter of the silencer could it be .32 or smaller something like a .25? AHHH, this gun haunts me. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:49, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

Looks like a Magnum Research Micro Desert Eagle, NAA Guardian, or Grendel P-10, but the distinct trigger guard makes it two-tone Grendel P-10 -DrNubb762

::The problem is that the Grendel P-10's rear cocking serrations and top of the slide look nothing like the one in the show. The hinge from the front of the Taurus is clearly absent from the unknown gun. It is not a NAA Guardian, again the rear serrations are wrong, the front sight is wrong and the trigger guard. The Magnum Research,the front of the trigger guard is not correct, and the top of the slide looks somewhat wrong. The Rohrbaugh R9 seems similar, but again that trigger guard is the problem. With the scene being that almost as soon as it is pulled out by the assassin she is tackled by Kono, could it be that this gun is a rubber prop, not entirely based on any single gun? The only thing that gets me is that the assassin's little finger is projected from the rest of her hand implying a magazine base-plate like that of a NAA Guardian. I hope this helps us get a little closer to figuring this out.--[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 05:18, 22 October 2011 (CDT)

==Unknown pistol==

[[Image:Hawaii Five 0 guard pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pistol in the holster of an Aeko Kula guard in "Heihei".]]

Talk:Hawaii Five-0 (2010)

2011-10-08T00:49:33Z

Rebusdi: /* Unknown pistol */

==Unknown pistol==

[[Image:Hawaii Five 0 guard pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pistol in the holster of an Aeko Kula guard in "Heihei".]]

[[Image:Hawaii Five 0 compact pistol silenced.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The cleaner raising her suppressed compact pistol.]]
[[Image:Hawaii Five 0 compact pistol silenced a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The pisot aimed at the witness.]]

Unknown pistol at first glance looks like a Taurus PT25, but slightly different features. - Redtornado

Its a Silver Grendel P-10 --Сергей Титов

Could it be a Magnum Research Micro Desert Eagle? A lot is right, but a lot is also wrong like the curved front of the trigger guard. This is a really confusing pistol. Based on the diameter of the silencer could it be .32 or smaller something like a .25? AHHH, this gun haunts me. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 19:49, 7 October 2011 (CDT)

== Spelling error in title ==

This show's title is spelled with a "0" instead of an "O". It should read Hawaii Five-0

== A lot of reloading ==

Some of the characters do a lot of speed reloads and tactical reloads during the first episode. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:00, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

:Not that it makes the show a whole lot more realistic. But seeing SIGs in action is always nice. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, but I find it annoying that they do a tactical reload EVERY SIX SHOTS. Just saying that if you have a double stack magazine, might as well use it. The first time I saw it, it almost confused me into thinking that Alex O'Loughlin was using a P220. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.51.1|24.15.51.1]] 20:25, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

==Chick Guns==
I find it annoying that this show arms Grace Park exclusively with 'Chick Guns' like the 3913 and Kel-Tech pistols she is seen using. For a more in-depth rant on this subject, see the [[X Files, The|X Files]] discussion page. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

:Speaking of which, what type of S&W is she using? It has the barrel of a 3913 "Ladysmith", but it's missing the cream-colored grips. I thought it was a regular 3913 until I took a look at the shape of the barrel. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:33, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
::What are the differences between the barrels of the standard model and the Ladysmith version? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

:::Compare the two pictures of them. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:45, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

::::I did, the barrels and slides look identical. Unless your talking about the underside of the barrel which is more angular on the Ladysmith version. At first I thought you meant the slides when you referred to the barrels but if you are referring to the undersides, than yes I definitely see the difference. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

:::::Yeah, sorry, that's what I meant...you can see that the lower part of the frame on the 3913 and Ladysmith are different. Kono's S&W has the Ladysmith-style frame, even though her gun has black grips. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::This further supports my "Chick Gun" comment as they armed Kono with a weapon that has "Lady" in the title. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Why is the Kel-Tec PF-9 a "chick" gun? It was given as a back up by her boss. The Kel-tec is an awesome choice for a back-up. As for the Ladysmith, it was probably a good choice. The Ladysmith series was built to accomodate people with smaller hands. Kono is not a big girl no matter how much of a right hook she has. Stainless helps in the Hawaiian heat and the 9mm round is what the rest of her unit uses. At least it was a larger gun instead of immediately going to something like the Glock 26. I'm just glad it was something you don't see very often. [[Special:Contributions/96.32.179.156|96.32.179.156]] 22:51, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
:My rant about the 'Chick Gun' thing is further explained on the X-Files discussion page. My point isn't that these guns are bad, just that it seems demeaning that she is armed only with single-column, small frame pistols while her male colleagues weapons are larger frame, double-stack pistols. As I pointed out on the X-Files discussion page, this is a fairly common trend. Many shows and films arm female cops/federal agents with, at worst .32 or .380 pocket pistols or at best smaller, lower capacity versions of the men's weapons as ''Duty'' weapons. The Kel-Tec in this show was her back-up gun, so that doesn't really count, but the fact that she uses a 3913 Ladysmith as her primary duty weapon does certainly fit this trend (by the way I like the 3913, I just don't think it should be a primary weapon for a LEO). As I mentioned on the X-Files page, I don't bring this up as a sexist issue but as a realism one, since in most real life instances women use the same pistols as men, small hands or not. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

::I just watched last night's episode. Kono's gun is definitely a 3913 "Ladysmith" with black grips. During the scene where they raid the house where the militant group is storing its weapons, there's a close-up of Kono where the slide/barrel of her pistol are clearly visible, and you can see that it says "Ladysmith" on the right side. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:38, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
:::More evidence for the "Chick Gun" phenomenon.

Well I believe there are "girl guns" and then there are guns that fits into the hands of a girl and if she can handle the recoil. I mean, I've heard of a girl owning and really handling her Desert Eagle in .50, but not all girls need to get a "big" gun to make them more equal to a guy with a gun. It's a gun...seriously. It's not like comparing a regular lap to girly laps. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:50, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Girly laps? Was that a Red vs. Blue reference? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 26 September 2011 (CDT)

::It looks like Kono switched sidearms again...in the second episode of Season 2, she drew (I think) a SIG P250 when the IA investigator played by [[Tom Sizemore]] was in her house. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:11, 27 September 2011 (CDT)

== Holsters ==

Hey guys, just wondering, what is the holster that Lt. Cmdr. Steve McGarrett (Alex O'Loughlin) uses on his Tactical vest? The one where the SIG goes side on. - [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]]
::Pretty sure it was a Blackhawk CQC Serpa.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Agreed. And I think his usual hip holster is something similar to the one used by Jack Bauer on 24. Says its an Aker leather paddle holster. [[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

== M727? ==

[[Image:Hawaii Five0 M4A1s.jpg|thumb|none|600px|These Colt Rifles do not have removable carry handles and cannot be M4A1's.]]
:yup. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]

::Nope. They have thin 16" barrels, rather than 14.5" stepped M4-style (like the M727 has). They're probably some other civilian AR carbine with the A2-style receiver. Olympic Arms makes a K3B variant in that same configuration, and so does DPMS. Unless I saw the side of the receiver, I couldn't tell you brand. But definitely not M727. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Colt Gold Cup National Match ==

[[Image:ColtMKIV-Series-70-GCNM.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Colt Gold Cup National Match (Mark IV, Series 70) - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:Hawaii Five0pistol aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Carlos Bagoyo aims the National Match at the head of the ex-ambassador.]]
[[Image:Hawaii Five0pistol aim 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Closeup of the National Match. You can see the adjustable rear sights.]]
I don't think that's a National Match, looks to me more like a Para Ordnance. Judging from the slide serrations and roll mark style. Kimber is another choice, but it lacks front serrations usually found on them. I also don't think it has adjustable sights, looks like fixed 3-dot.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think Para Ordnance Nite-Tac. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yup that's what I'm going to change it too, also the hammer is shaved so it's an LDA found pretty much only on Para's. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:47, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== unknown 1911 ==

[[Image:Hawaii Five0 1911.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An unknown M1911 is seen near the corpse of Emilio Ochoa in "Mana'o".]]
It reminds me of a Springfield Loaded, but lacks the beavertail found on them. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:I think the beavertail is hidden under the straw/hay, because I can't find any 1911's with a 3 hole skeleton trigger, straight backstrap, and no beavertail.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 08:33, 5 August 2011 (CDT)

== Heckler & Koch P30 ==

[[Max Martini]] appeared in an Episode. I thought was strange to see a [[Heckler & Koch P30]] only in a continuity error. I think Max may have used the P30 in his Episode when trying to kidnap the General from his convoy.

I agree. also, it appears that in the last few episodes Danno switched to the P30 from his SP2009.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:07, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
[[Image:Hawaii Five 0 Danno.jpg|thumb|none|500px|It wasn't just in this episode, either.]]

:Yep, Danno has switched to the H&K P30 as his new sidearm. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:09, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

::I'll add it--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 23:30, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

== Sig not Sigma. ==

They have listed a S&W Sigma series, but in the screen shot it isn't a sigma series.
:It looks more like a SIG Sauer. You can see a hammer. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:42, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
::Looks a lot like a SIG Pro SP2009 or SP2340. Look at the round trigger guard and bottom of the magazine.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 21:55, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

==The guard's unknown gun==
It looks to me like a Beretta 92FS Inox.--[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] 18:06, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
[[Image:S&W4506 PF BruceW.jpg|thumb|none|300px|The Grip closely resembles the old style Smith & Wesson 4506.]]
I thought it looked more like a Sig 226 in stainless. And by the way the ARK on the bag looks really similar to the ARK logo from the Cape. -Peejn8r

That grip was DEFINITELY a Smith & Wesson auto grip. I'd say it's a S&W 5906 or S&W 4506.

==Shotguns?==
In the latest episode, Steve and Chin Ho carry shotguns with bright yellow stocks and fore ends(the fore ends have some kind of attachment) Can anyone identify these guns? --[[Westernman1987|Westernman1987]]--

Stocks and forends like this are used by law enforcement to designate a dedicated Less than lethal weapon.
I thought it was a nice touch, especially since they did not sign post it.

:It is a Taser X12, a re-engineered Mossberg. It fires the Taser XRep, a nasty 12 gauge taser cartridge. Effective up to 100 feet. I suggest researching it, to be safe I won't post a link, but go to taser.com and search X12 and XREP.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:52, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
::It's a common enough theme with less than lethal weaponry in use by law enforcement agencies these days. In addition to the "yellow" Mossbergs with their Taser rounds Remington makes a variation of its' 870 shotgun intended for beanbag rounds which have orange stocks. Btw...this is the aforementioned taser round in flight.--[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:25, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
::[[Image:Taser-xrep.jpg]]
:::It's nice to see a touch of reality on TV. Also, a bit more about the cartridge, it's pretty mean. It is completely wireless, and the front prongs stay embedded into the person while the bottom seperates on a string to the front and sticks into the leg with prongs that pop out of that, and the reaction is to put your hand to the prongs, which are conveniently sticking outward. In my opinion, much better than shooting an uncooperative guy with a .40 S&W round.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 01:17, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Well there is less to clean up if one of these is used as opposed to the mess from a 00 or slug round. ;-)--[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 02:20, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. [[User:Westernman1987|Westernman1987]]

==Found a pic of the HPD rifle==

[[Image:Hawaii Five 0 HPD SWAT assaulter.jpg|none|600px]]

This one I got. It's a good one but I'll need some peeps to see if it can be shown as an M4A1 or not. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 05:00, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
:My guess would be an AR platform rather than an actual Colt M4. Barrel looks kinda long and skinny to be an actual M4. I could be wrong. There are a lot of AR/M4 platforms out there. Almost as many manufacturers as 1911s. [[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]]

Looks like a Bushmaster 16-in heavy barreled carbine from the pic, being that I don't see a step-cut in the barrel. [[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 10:28, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

== Kimber ==

Just watching "Nalowale" again and I'm not sure that the Kimber is actually a Kimber. Judging by the look of the grips they are non-diamond checkered wood grips which I've not seen a standard Kimber have. It could be possible that they changed the grips. Although due to the dark image it might just be my eyes playing tricks on me.--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:31, 5 April 2011 (CDT)

== What kind of tactical vest does the team wear? ==

They all seem to wear the same kind. Molle loops front and back, grab handle at the nape of the neck, mostly in black but occasionally in multicam.
I think its some kind of plate carrier, rather than a bullet proof vest in of itself. Anybody know exactly what brand it is?

I think I read that McGarrett uses a Blackhawk vest of some sort. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:51, 17 April 2011 (CDT)

Mcgarrett wears an OTV vest i think the old model, the multicam vest is a different one and the team wears simple bulletproof vests. -- [[User:zach214000|zach214000]] 27 Sept 2011

== Big page ==

It's hard to believe that it's only had one season so far given the size of the page. If they keep it up it will be the biggest Television page on the site before too long. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:07, 2 August 2011 (CDT)
:I can definitely see that we will have to break it down into seasons eventually, probably after season 3 (I have little to no doubt that it will last up to at least season 5). There might be some repeats, but I definitely want to see this page get on the biggest television page list. --[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:03, 2 August 2011 (CDT)
::I think if they keep up their weapon selections and what not throughout the second season that it will be on the biggest television page list by the end of season 2. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:39, 3 August 2011 (CDT)

== McGarrett's Gun on Season finale ==

After he gets thrown off the case in the season 1 finale, and Steve goes to see the big guy, cant remember his name, What gun does he get? It looked like a Glock to me but I dont have a screen cap to go along with my thoughts. -- [[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]] -8/24/2011

Yeah I'd say it was a Glock 17. Kind of annoyed that he picked up a Glock. It would have been nice for him to get a SIG Sauer P226 like what he started with. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 10:13, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

The original 226 would have been cool. I think he should have had something smaller and concealable. Like a Glock 27 if he was gonna take a Glock anyway. ([[User:Peejn8r|Peejn8r]])

== What Lori Weston's pistol is? ==

Excuse me, What pistol is Lori Weston is using what pistol?

Talk:The Art of War

2011-10-06T10:14:36Z

Rebusdi: /* Glock Supressor */ new section

== Need ID of this suppressed pistol possibly a Makarov or Beretta? ==

A female assassin is seen with a suppressed pistol when confronting Julia Fang ([[Marie Matiko]]) in the hospital.
[[Image:AOW033.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:Could it be a Walther PPK .380? Chris_Hun7er 6:46, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

:[[image:WaltherPPKSuppressed.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px]]
::Going by the color of the frame, I would say it's a PA-63. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:38, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
:::[[image:FEG_PA63.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px]]

wasn't this movie made before Walther made the PPS?
:I believe you're correct. From what I've read, the PPS was first produced in 2007. Chris Hun7er 6:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

That cant be a Walther P22 in the movie...the first production of that pistol wasnt out tell 2001 and this movie was released in 2000 [[Spades of Columbia]] 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Can someone Change the Walther p22 to a unknown Pistol on the main page [[Spades of Columbia]] 18 may 2010

Ok...Im almost positive that pistol marked as p22 is actually a Kahr PM9, based on the round trigger guard and the open gap at the bottom of the magazine well both in which the p22 lacks. [[Spades of Columbia]]

Judging by the

==Confusing Ending==
I don't get the ending, why are some of the Chinese assassins are still active, like the guy with the Beretta 93R???

== Beretta 93R==
Where in the second screenshot is there a slide mounted safety? I don't see one, seems like a genuine 93R to me.

== Glock Supressor ==

Are that square Glock supressor real, or was it a stylistic choice for the movie? I have seen square suppressors in other movies and Tv shows, but have never known if they genuinely exist. Thanks --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 05:14, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:FN Minimi

2011-10-04T10:05:04Z

Rebusdi: /* Mk 48 Mod 0 */

==M249==
:My dad REALLY wants an M249. Is this impossible?

::There are a handful of transferable FN Minimis in the United States. Long Mountain Outfitters had one for sale, but it was priced at about $100,000. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Oh well. Christmas is going to be dissapointing for him hahaha-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 19:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

::Yeah, unless he's a rich lawyer who would pay $100K for a performance car, whenever he hits his mid-life crisis. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:09, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
:He works too hard to blow alot of $ on something he doesn't need-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:07, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Ohio Ordnance makes semi & full auto versions of many machine gun designs, including the FN Minimi, don't know about pricing, or how much red tape you'd have to go though but here's their site. http://ohioordnanceworks.com/

==STANAG Compatibility==
According to Wikipedia the Minimi/M249 SAW are compatible with 30-round STANAG magazines and the 5.56mm Beta-C magazine. How common, if at all, would this be in the US military? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 18:23, 6 April 2011 (CDT)
Very uncommon the Minimi is unreliable with any sort of magazine. It's a mechanical flaw in the feed system. The weapon runs great with belts but put in a magazine and the reliability drops to nothing. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:32, 6 April 2011 (CDT)

== Mk 48 Mod 0 ==

I have a question regarding the Mk 48. Why did they modify a Minimi to the 7.62 Nato, when there are plenty of belt fed 7.62 LMGs in roughly that size? (I'm thinking about the M60E4.) Also what is the commonality of parts between this and the normal M249/Mk 46? Any help will improve my knowledge. Thanks. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 05:04, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:FN Minimi

2011-10-04T10:04:42Z

Rebusdi: /* Mk 48 Mod 0 */

==M249==
:My dad REALLY wants an M249. Is this impossible?

::There are a handful of transferable FN Minimis in the United States. Long Mountain Outfitters had one for sale, but it was priced at about $100,000. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Oh well. Christmas is going to be dissapointing for him hahaha-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 19:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

::Yeah, unless he's a rich lawyer who would pay $100K for a performance car, whenever he hits his mid-life crisis. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:09, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
:He works too hard to blow alot of $ on something he doesn't need-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:07, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Ohio Ordnance makes semi & full auto versions of many machine gun designs, including the FN Minimi, don't know about pricing, or how much red tape you'd have to go though but here's their site. http://ohioordnanceworks.com/

==STANAG Compatibility==
According to Wikipedia the Minimi/M249 SAW are compatible with 30-round STANAG magazines and the 5.56mm Beta-C magazine. How common, if at all, would this be in the US military? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 18:23, 6 April 2011 (CDT)
Very uncommon the Minimi is unreliable with any sort of magazine. It's a mechanical flaw in the feed system. The weapon runs great with belts but put in a magazine and the reliability drops to nothing. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:32, 6 April 2011 (CDT)

== Mk 48 Mod 0 ==

I have a question regarding the Mk 48. Why did they modify a Minimi to the 7.62 Nato, when there are plenty of belt fed 7.62 LMGs in roughly that size? (I'm thinking about the M60E4.) Also what is the commonality of parts between this and the normal M249/Mk 46? Any help with improve my knowledge. Thanks. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 05:04, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:FN Minimi

2011-10-04T10:04:18Z

Rebusdi: /* Mk 48 Mod 0 */ new section

==M249==
:My dad REALLY wants an M249. Is this impossible?

::There are a handful of transferable FN Minimis in the United States. Long Mountain Outfitters had one for sale, but it was priced at about $100,000. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Oh well. Christmas is going to be dissapointing for him hahaha-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 19:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

::Yeah, unless he's a rich lawyer who would pay $100K for a performance car, whenever he hits his mid-life crisis. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:09, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
:He works too hard to blow alot of $ on something he doesn't need-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:07, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Ohio Ordnance makes semi & full auto versions of many machine gun designs, including the FN Minimi, don't know about pricing, or how much red tape you'd have to go though but here's their site. http://ohioordnanceworks.com/

==STANAG Compatibility==
According to Wikipedia the Minimi/M249 SAW are compatible with 30-round STANAG magazines and the 5.56mm Beta-C magazine. How common, if at all, would this be in the US military? [[User:MrOshimida27|MrOshimida27]] 18:23, 6 April 2011 (CDT)
Very uncommon the Minimi is unreliable with any sort of magazine. It's a mechanical flaw in the feed system. The weapon runs great with belts but put in a magazine and the reliability drops to nothing. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:32, 6 April 2011 (CDT)

== Mk 48 Mod 0 ==

I have a question regarding the Mk 48. Why did they modify a Minimi to the 7.62 Nato, when there are plenty of belt fed 7.62 LMGs in roughly that size? (I'm thinking about the M60E4.) Also what is the compatibility of parts between this and the normal M249/Mk 46? Any help with improve my knowledge. Thanks. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 05:04, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Burn Notice

2011-08-19T15:41:16Z

Rebusdi: /* New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? */

==Lol Wut?==
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: "I know that in the new Burn Notice episode "Question & Answer," a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is "Double Down" look it up." Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.

Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)

:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the "Edit" button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).

::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester

::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW

:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor

:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:

:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on "The Unit"). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.

:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like "not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle" instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked. That's definetly not a Jericho. I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model. Here's the image I got

[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

It is either a S&W 4006 or S&W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a bit late to the party but that looks like a S&W 645 to me because of the exposed screws. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

It's great to know I'm not seeing things :) I've always thought that gun was either a 645 or an earlier (I think) version of the 659 with small iron sights. But I just kind of deferred to all the other guys' experience on this one and kept quiet. - [[User:TrueBeliever19|TrueBeliever19]]

== Fiona's assault rifle ==

I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).

It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?

they assault rifle Fiona got from Seymour (arms dealer) was an M4A1 carbine with what appeared to be an Ampoint (possibly ACOG) anpeq-2 and some type of verticle grip. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:20, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sam's Rifle ==
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona. Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing. It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR. I don't think it's an SR-25. They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone is dissing Bruce Campbell firing the MP5 PDW without using the sights. I just saw a show on Discovery channel about the Iran hostage crisis and it interviewed two former SAS operatives. Its standard for them to point shoot small arms with intense practice and instinct in close quarters. Afterall Sam is a former SEAL. --~~

==Mark 23==
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!

==sig 226==

i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,

==Errors==
2 Errors of note: The Steyr is a Remington 700. The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present. It's not a ProHunter either.

The Winchester 1300's aren't either. Note the lack of v-shaped reciever. They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.

I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]

==Accuracy International==

During the episode "Double Booked" Michael apparently assembles an "AI AWC" but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.

== Desert Eagle ==

Added Desert Eagle to handgun list. Season 3 Episode 4 "Fearless Leader". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010
(UTC)

== Beretta Tomcat==

In Season 3 Episode 8 "Friends Like These". Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.
==SIG not Glock==
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered SIG.]]
This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?
This gun is a SIG non-gun. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:04, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a P226

==HK USP compact 45==
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.

on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45

==Fiona's M1==
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''
 

:''The "Family Business" M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in "Turn and Burn."

==Fiona's rifle==
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?

I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle

I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&catalog_=B

::You are right. Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==S3Ep13==
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==

Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

== Great show ==
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, right on. "Honey! I got you a S&W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!" --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

ha ha that funny . but id rather hang with michael . i like him . maybe pick up a few things . fight moves , learn to speak russian , and some super cool
spy stuff. im happy its on tonight. simmons 8492

== CZ 75BD ==

In season 3 episode 6 "the hunter" Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

==BNS4==
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

damn right brother , i love this show so much . simmons 8492

==Khan's Gun==

what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp

[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px ]]

That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&W. [[Spades of Columbia]]

: Nope. [[Smith & Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]

==What are these==

these guns look really dressed up

[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors

-Double Agent M

Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes

- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.

[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode? It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]

Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]

[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?

looks like a non gun

Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.

Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.

It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911). And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now. Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Original CZ 75... ==

In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]

I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.

[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==S04E06==

Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :<.

==S04E09==
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&K P30 on Michael

== Breaking Up By Season? ==

The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season. The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season. Thoughts? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe

== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the "laser targeting assist" she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==Remington 870==

wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the "water shell" is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the "water round." No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
::They look like nickel plated Winchester 1300 defenders with pistol grips and standard mag tubes. And I don't think they're airsoft, if you look down the barrel of one of them in the case, you see residue from firing blanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:: Winchester 1300 Defs? Bah, why didn't I think of that? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::- Not a 1300 either. 1300s have a single pin, and the safety button would be visible as would the slide release. And the "residue" could be just about anything, and I think its more likely to be from lighting. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 21:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

==Robert Patrick==

Robert Patrick uses the USP with the silver slide in the most recent episode. -- [[User:K|K]] 12:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==Jessie's Rifle==

Anyone know what Jessie was using when he "shot" Micheal in the finale? --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

It's listed on here as a Colt Model 933 but I don't think it is. If you look at the rail and the front sights it looks like a HK416 to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:02, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

== Not a Remington 700? ==

Is this not a Remington 700? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:BNassassinRifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Evelyn the assassin ([[Lucy Lawless]]) adjusts the scope on her Remington.]]
[[Image:BNassassinRifle2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A view of the other end of the Remington: the end you would rather be behind.]]
I don't think this is correct, at least based on the picture of the 700PSS provided. Look at the bolt handle, not what on a factory Remington 700. And the stock is too glossy and smooth looking to be a tactical rifle

== H&K P30 or HK45? I think this gun is misidentified. ==

This looks more like a Heckler and Koch P30 than an HK45. They are very similar looking except the external safety on the HK45, the bottom of the magazine is different, and the HK45 is larger.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/4/41/BurnS4_309.jpg/500px-BurnS4_309.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/c/c8/HH45.jpg/400px-HH45.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/12/HK-P30.jpg/350px-HK-P30.jpg

(I tried to post the pictures but couldn't get it to work). Notice the difference in the bottom of the magazine. The HK45 is also a full-size, the P30 is a compact. Notice the slight difference in the length of the slide. The gun in his hand looks more like a compact, and the slide looks shorter than the HK45. I'm new, so I'm not going to change anything myself. Just a suggestion.

SnakeDoc

Its definately A P30.. you can tell by the trigger guard

== New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? ==

The attached picture from Burn Notice may show Weston carrying an HK P30 9mm. (Again, I can't figure how to embed the picture).

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/113/1135169/burn-notice-20101117073255292_640w.jpg

It is a publicity still from the latest episode (aired in late November). If I recall the episode correctly, he drew the gun on his own (didn't recover it from someone else) and used it to shoot a fake chemical weapon cannister filled with tear gas and pesticide.
It looks like an H&K to me ... too small to be an HK45, not square enough to be a USP Compact. I'm pretty sure it isn't Weston's usual Sig, though I am unsure if it represents a permanent change in sidearm of choice.

Hope not, SIG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HK, like is way better.

Its definatetly a P30. Personally i think a new gun would be good the P228 is outdated and is used by everybody in most T.V shows so a new gun like the P30 would be good.. OR stay with Sig and get the P229 E2

honestiy , i like the P228 with him . its been with him since the pilot so i say , if it aint broke dont fix it simmons 8492

Its his signature weapon, seriously signature weapons cant be changed.

:Yep, it's official: Michael Weston has switched to the H&K P30 as his new sidearm. I was a bit disappointed, as I hoped he would just get a newer SIG (i.e. the P229R, SP2022, or P250), but P30 it is. I figured it was inevitable at some point he was gonna switch sidearms. Actually, I'm surprised he had the 228 for as long as he did, considering the assortment of new(er) pistols that have been used by other characters on the show (like the Walther PPS, FN Five-Seven USG, and Springfield XD, among others). I would have figured it's a rule in Hollywood that the protagonist always has to have the best gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

XD was only briefly shown in one episode, I believe 5-7 was too. Look at Sam, conealing a beretta the whole series, Fiona likes her ppk and michael had a SIG. Now I have to see a HK.......Sigh. A PPS may be a better choice for a new gun for Fiona. And the 92 is a beast, maybe something SIG sized for Sam would be appropriate, hes also a former seal so it would make sense.

: Signature weapons can change occasionally. Jack Bauer switched from a Sig to an H&K USP Compact between Seasons 2 and 3 of 24 (he used the USPc for the remaining seasons). I don't mind the change. I actually like the P30 quite a bit personally, so its good to see it getting a bit more publicity. -- SnakeDoc

I hate HK, I mean, a rail that only takes their special accessories, instead of a standard rail everybody else uses, since there you know, too good for a streamlight or what not, and they got a mag release on the trigger guard instead of the grip. The sig is compact, accurate, reliable, and has the ergos right.

-k9870

: The P30 has a standard rail.

-looks like the 228 is back in the finale ;)

Agreed the Sig is back for the finale show down... I agree i'd love to see him make the practical and logical step to a Sig P229R DAK... because in a adreneline situation who wants to remember long pull short pull---ST0NEFIELD

::Me.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:26, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

-Can we get some pictures of him using a P30 because I can't find any

:Who keeps deleting the line about Michael Westen changing his sidearm to a P30? I added it once, it got deleted, I added it again, and it is deleted again. I am going to add it again (along with some pics), and I ask that whoever keeps deleting it stops. Thanks.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:05, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

He has reverted back to the HK P30 as of the first episode of the fifth season.

Did any other Sig-Sauer fans feel a little sad that Michael Weston left us for HK? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 13:57, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Yes, me! I was not happy at all. The P228 seemed to fit him so perfectly. I'm not a fan of HKs overpriced stuff. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:44, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Don't get me wrong, the P30 feels GREAT in the hand, but its too damn expensive. Same with the USP, feels okay, but is way too overpriced. SIG-Sauer is still expensive, but you get what you pay for. BTW, if you didn't know I am a DIE-HARD SIG-Sauer fan (except for the new E2 or whatever, hate that) and I wish they would have given him a P229R or even a SIG-Pro, idc which model of SIG-Pro. Both in DA/SA of course. I could rant on SOOO much longer, but I have to stop myself.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:54, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Isn't the E2 now pretty much what the standard for what a P226 looks like now?--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 03:25, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yes, and it makes me SOOOO mad that they didn't at least keep the standard grips availiable for people that prefer them. Plus, they changed the slide of the P229 to where it looks just like a P228R.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:03, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

It's only like when they made all of the pistols with a rail. I hate the railed frame it looks so ugly. I'd prefer them to offer at least a "classic" version with original grips and no rail. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:14, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:I like both frames, and I think they should have kept all three as an option. You could choose unrailed or railed, then choose the grips (classic P226, newer style, or E2).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:08, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::Or... You can just buy an older version. :I - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:20, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

Sounds good. Let's contact SIG Sauer with our idea lol. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:36, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

I thought it was a nice change to see him with a new sidearm. Its like when they changed weapons in Stargate from the MP5 to the P90

Finally the SIG has been completely phased out in Season 5 Episode 5 'Square One'. Fiona melts it with thermite(?). --[[User:Devang.home47|Devang.home47]] 21:53, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

That wasn't his P228. That was a P226 that was used to try and set Michael up. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:51, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

I can't be too sure, but it seems from the recent episodes that Michael is back with the Sig. I haven't been able to pause the show on any clear, not blurry shots. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 08:19, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

In the last episode there was an overhead shot that when I saw it I thought to myself that it looked like a SIG. Hopefully he's seen sense and dropped the HK and gone back to the SIG. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 08:30, 17 August 2011 (CDT)
:I'm not sure about the last episodes, but in the preview for the next one he is with the HK. Hopefully he will simply alternate between them.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:53, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

I still don't understand where a burnt spy would get a HK P30 from, or why he would get one when his P228 was fine. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 11:40, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

:: Forgive my ignorance of all things HK pistols, but why would it be difficult for him to get a P30? Or why would it be more difficult than having a Sig? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 10:41, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol in S04E15 "Brotherly Love" ==

Did anybody notice the gun that Michael gave to Sam in the loft, the one that he said that Fiona had modified to fire 3-round bursts? It only showed it for a second, so I didn't get a good lock at it, and I was just wondering if anybody here did and recognized it --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

HK VP70, I think. He probably meant Fiona altered it to fire burst without the stock attached.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 07:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that does indeed look like what I saw. Never even heard of that pistol before, and I consider myself somewhat of a gun nut, so it's cool to learn about a new gun. It's kind of neat how they build the selector switch into the stock mount. Thanks for the info! --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

Do you think there is any reason they chose to modify a VP70 rather than just use a 93R or G18? It just seemed odd to me that they used a relatively obscure pistol for this role. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:26, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:VP70 is hardly obscure, role in Aliens + first polymer handgun evar. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

::But it was best known for its role as Leon S. Kennedy's sidearm in Resident Evil 2. Thanks in no small part that it was called by its real name, aww, the good old days. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:47, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I suppose you are right, it isn't that obscure to those that frequent this website. It is one of the things that makes me love this show so much; their accuracy, attention to detail and choice of equipment make it a different cut to most junk on TV these days. It is still a bit of a surprise that they chose to modify, unless this is a wink to Fi's associates and maybe Seymore, the arms dealer? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 17:31, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

I just did a bit of research on the internet and found out that the VP70M had a selector built into the detachable stock that allowed semi-auto or three round burst. So my question about why they didn't choose a burst pistol now looks a little dumb. Thanks for the comments though. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:53, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== Mike's Holster ==

Anyone have any clue what holster Mike uses? You don't get a lot of good looks at it, but you get a fairly good one in Season 1's 'Unpaid Debts', when he's walking away from the screen after they kidnap the brother of the pimp. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:32, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

It changes. Ive seen an iwb, a Small of back serpa, mexican carry, etc.

==Jesse's Rifle==

Okay, dont attack me for this but i think in season 4's guilty as charged Jesse is using a HK416. Look at the gas black, Hk front sight and the lower side rails. With all the othe Hk love in series 4 it wouldnt be too abnormal to have a 416 turn up --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 14:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

How does one go about submitting alterations? In the Episode "Good Soldier" (S2E9) a pistol is listed here as being a S&W 459. I looked a the episode on DVD and it looks like a Kimber SIS. The forward and rear slide serrations are very distinctive.

==639==

Seth Peterson uses a 639 as opposed to a 4006. The front sight is fixed and the trigger guard is round without serrations, features of a second generation, and it also has a single stack frame.

==Beretta Cougar?==

I just noticed this in 3x13 Partners in Crime. It's the gun Michael hands Nate when he asks to keep an eye on mom though it doesn't get used in the episode. Initially I thought it was a Px4, but after brightening it looks like a Beretta Cougar.

Picture (brightened for clarity):

[[File:Burnnoticecoug.jpg]]

- IGemini - 18:40, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Yep, It's a Beretta Cougar. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:16, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

== The Fall of Sam Axe? ==

So, as to the new 'movie', are we making a separate page for it, or are we just adding it all to this one? Personally, I think we should make a new page, since this one is getting kinda long. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:53, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

Yes, since it is a separate movie, it will get a separate page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:05, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
:Okay. It's up on Hulu currently, if anyone wants to start getting screenshots. I'll go back and compile a list of weapons in a while. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:03, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
== MP5 (S4 Finale) ==
I am not entirely sure, but I believe that the MP5s used by Vaughn's men in the Season 4 finale (Last Stand) are of the A5 variant, based on the 3-position; collapsible stock, and the HK "3 round burst" trigger group. This can be clearly seen when Michael, Fiona, and Jesse are at the elevator shaft, talking with Vaughn; Michael's MP5 is slung, with a somewhat clear shot of the fire selector. I can upload a screenshot if necessary. --[[User:Progamer7100|Progamer7100]] 11:23, 8 May 2011 (CDT)

==Season 5==
Just watched the seasons premiere, no new guns to report all have previously been covered on the page. Wondering if the new series Suits on the same network contains any guns and deserves a page. I'm gonna watch it asap anyways (: [[User:Noe|Noe]] 15:35, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Episode 6 has a new one to add: close to the beginning Michael takes a rifle from a sniper that is in the H&K G3 family. It seems to lack the wide selector ring of the G3, most likely an HK91. I'll have a screencap up sometime today. - [[User:IGemini|IGemini]] 04:04 UTC, 1 August 2011

:Episode 7 had some nice toys today. Almost certain there's a bonafide G3 in this episode, you get a clear shot of the selector markings when Sam is setting one up. Jesse was also using something new today, some things make me think either a Ruger SR-556 or an HK416. I'll need a better look. - [[User:IGemini|IGemini]] 02:06 UTC, 4 August 2011

== Spoilers: The murder weapon in Season Five ==

I'll try not to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen the newest episodes, but I'd like to ask something, since I'm not extremely familiar with SIG pistols, or atleast, I'm not too good at identifying them when I only get a quick look at them. Still, in one of the recent episodes, Mike heads to the CIA headquarters for a debriefing, and finds '''Spoilers!''' his contact, dead on the floor with a SIG pistol beside him. Mike melts this gun down using thermite in the next episode. Now, like I said, I'm not too good at identifying SIG pistols, but to me, it looks like a P226 or possibly a P220. Can anyone verify this and possibly grab a decent screencap? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 11:58, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:It was a P226. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 12:22, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::Thanks for the clarification. Now, can someone get a screencap of it?

:::Um, if it means a lot to you to have a screencap of the P226 from that episode, then you have no right to demand that anyone else provide it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:31, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

== Season Breaks 2011 ==

The series is currently in Season 5, so it may be time to break up this page by season. The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season. Thoughts? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:25, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe

:I find it funny how you two had this exact conversation, word for word, around this time last year. Back on topic, I really don't think it is necessary, and I personally hate shows that are broken up by season, but if you feel the need to, go ahead. Expect LOTS AND LOTS of repeats though.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:29, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Burn Notice

2011-08-17T13:19:58Z

Rebusdi: /* New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? */

==Lol Wut?==
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: "I know that in the new Burn Notice episode "Question & Answer," a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is "Double Down" look it up." Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.

Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)

:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the "Edit" button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).

::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester

::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW

:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor

:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:

:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on "The Unit"). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.

:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like "not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle" instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked. That's definetly not a Jericho. I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model. Here's the image I got

[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

It is either a S&W 4006 or S&W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a bit late to the party but that looks like a S&W 645 to me because of the exposed screws. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

It's great to know I'm not seeing things :) I've always thought that gun was either a 645 or an earlier (I think) version of the 659 with small iron sights. But I just kind of deferred to all the other guys' experience on this one and kept quiet. - [[User:TrueBeliever19|TrueBeliever19]]

== Fiona's assault rifle ==

I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).

It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?

they assault rifle Fiona got from Seymour (arms dealer) was an M4A1 carbine with what appeared to be an Ampoint (possibly ACOG) anpeq-2 and some type of verticle grip. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:20, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sam's Rifle ==
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona. Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing. It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR. I don't think it's an SR-25. They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone is dissing Bruce Campbell firing the MP5 PDW without using the sights. I just saw a show on Discovery channel about the Iran hostage crisis and it interviewed two former SAS operatives. Its standard for them to point shoot small arms with intense practice and instinct in close quarters. Afterall Sam is a former SEAL. --~~

==Mark 23==
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!

==sig 226==

i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,

==Errors==
2 Errors of note: The Steyr is a Remington 700. The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present. It's not a ProHunter either.

The Winchester 1300's aren't either. Note the lack of v-shaped reciever. They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.

I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]

==Accuracy International==

During the episode "Double Booked" Michael apparently assembles an "AI AWC" but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.

== Desert Eagle ==

Added Desert Eagle to handgun list. Season 3 Episode 4 "Fearless Leader". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010
(UTC)

== Beretta Tomcat==

In Season 3 Episode 8 "Friends Like These". Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.
==SIG not Glock==
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered SIG.]]
This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?
This gun is a SIG non-gun. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:04, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a P226

==HK USP compact 45==
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.

on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45

==Fiona's M1==
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''
 

:''The "Family Business" M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in "Turn and Burn."

==Fiona's rifle==
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?

I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle

I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&catalog_=B

::You are right. Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==S3Ep13==
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==

Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

== Great show ==
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, right on. "Honey! I got you a S&W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!" --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

ha ha that funny . but id rather hang with michael . i like him . maybe pick up a few things . fight moves , learn to speak russian , and some super cool
spy stuff. im happy its on tonight. simmons 8492

== CZ 75BD ==

In season 3 episode 6 "the hunter" Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

==BNS4==
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

damn right brother , i love this show so much . simmons 8492

==Khan's Gun==

what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp

[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px ]]

That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&W. [[Spades of Columbia]]

: Nope. [[Smith & Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]

==What are these==

these guns look really dressed up

[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors

-Double Agent M

Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes

- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.

[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode? It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]

Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]

[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?

looks like a non gun

Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.

Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.

It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911). And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now. Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Original CZ 75... ==

In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]

I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.

[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==S04E06==

Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :<.

==S04E09==
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&K P30 on Michael

== Breaking Up By Season? ==

The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season. The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season. Thoughts? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe

== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the "laser targeting assist" she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==Remington 870==

wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the "water shell" is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the "water round." No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
::They look like nickel plated Winchester 1300 defenders with pistol grips and standard mag tubes. And I don't think they're airsoft, if you look down the barrel of one of them in the case, you see residue from firing blanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:: Winchester 1300 Defs? Bah, why didn't I think of that? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::- Not a 1300 either. 1300s have a single pin, and the safety button would be visible as would the slide release. And the "residue" could be just about anything, and I think its more likely to be from lighting. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 21:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

==Robert Patrick==

Robert Patrick uses the USP with the silver slide in the most recent episode. -- [[User:K|K]] 12:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==Jessie's Rifle==

Anyone know what Jessie was using when he "shot" Micheal in the finale? --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

It's listed on here as a Colt Model 933 but I don't think it is. If you look at the rail and the front sights it looks like a HK416 to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:02, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

== Not a Remington 700? ==

Is this not a Remington 700? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:BNassassinRifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Evelyn the assassin ([[Lucy Lawless]]) adjusts the scope on her Remington.]]
[[Image:BNassassinRifle2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A view of the other end of the Remington: the end you would rather be behind.]]
I don't think this is correct, at least based on the picture of the 700PSS provided. Look at the bolt handle, not what on a factory Remington 700. And the stock is too glossy and smooth looking to be a tactical rifle

== H&K P30 or HK45? I think this gun is misidentified. ==

This looks more like a Heckler and Koch P30 than an HK45. They are very similar looking except the external safety on the HK45, the bottom of the magazine is different, and the HK45 is larger.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/4/41/BurnS4_309.jpg/500px-BurnS4_309.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/c/c8/HH45.jpg/400px-HH45.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/12/HK-P30.jpg/350px-HK-P30.jpg

(I tried to post the pictures but couldn't get it to work). Notice the difference in the bottom of the magazine. The HK45 is also a full-size, the P30 is a compact. Notice the slight difference in the length of the slide. The gun in his hand looks more like a compact, and the slide looks shorter than the HK45. I'm new, so I'm not going to change anything myself. Just a suggestion.

SnakeDoc

Its definately A P30.. you can tell by the trigger guard

== New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? ==

The attached picture from Burn Notice may show Weston carrying an HK P30 9mm. (Again, I can't figure how to embed the picture).

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/113/1135169/burn-notice-20101117073255292_640w.jpg

It is a publicity still from the latest episode (aired in late November). If I recall the episode correctly, he drew the gun on his own (didn't recover it from someone else) and used it to shoot a fake chemical weapon cannister filled with tear gas and pesticide.
It looks like an H&K to me ... too small to be an HK45, not square enough to be a USP Compact. I'm pretty sure it isn't Weston's usual Sig, though I am unsure if it represents a permanent change in sidearm of choice.

Hope not, SIG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HK, like is way better.

Its definatetly a P30. Personally i think a new gun would be good the P228 is outdated and is used by everybody in most T.V shows so a new gun like the P30 would be good.. OR stay with Sig and get the P229 E2

honestiy , i like the P228 with him . its been with him since the pilot so i say , if it aint broke dont fix it simmons 8492

Its his signature weapon, seriously signature weapons cant be changed.

:Yep, it's official: Michael Weston has switched to the H&K P30 as his new sidearm. I was a bit disappointed, as I hoped he would just get a newer SIG (i.e. the P229R, SP2022, or P250), but P30 it is. I figured it was inevitable at some point he was gonna switch sidearms. Actually, I'm surprised he had the 228 for as long as he did, considering the assortment of new(er) pistols that have been used by other characters on the show (like the Walther PPS, FN Five-Seven USG, and Springfield XD, among others). I would have figured it's a rule in Hollywood that the protagonist always has to have the best gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

XD was only briefly shown in one episode, I believe 5-7 was too. Look at Sam, conealing a beretta the whole series, Fiona likes her ppk and michael had a SIG. Now I have to see a HK.......Sigh. A PPS may be a better choice for a new gun for Fiona. And the 92 is a beast, maybe something SIG sized for Sam would be appropriate, hes also a former seal so it would make sense.

: Signature weapons can change occasionally. Jack Bauer switched from a Sig to an H&K USP Compact between Seasons 2 and 3 of 24 (he used the USPc for the remaining seasons). I don't mind the change. I actually like the P30 quite a bit personally, so its good to see it getting a bit more publicity. -- SnakeDoc

I hate HK, I mean, a rail that only takes their special accessories, instead of a standard rail everybody else uses, since there you know, too good for a streamlight or what not, and they got a mag release on the trigger guard instead of the grip. The sig is compact, accurate, reliable, and has the ergos right.

-k9870

: The P30 has a standard rail.

-looks like the 228 is back in the finale ;)

Agreed the Sig is back for the finale show down... I agree i'd love to see him make the practical and logical step to a Sig P229R DAK... because in a adreneline situation who wants to remember long pull short pull---ST0NEFIELD

::Me.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:26, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

-Can we get some pictures of him using a P30 because I can't find any

:Who keeps deleting the line about Michael Westen changing his sidearm to a P30? I added it once, it got deleted, I added it again, and it is deleted again. I am going to add it again (along with some pics), and I ask that whoever keeps deleting it stops. Thanks.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:05, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

He has reverted back to the HK P30 as of the first episode of the fifth season.

Did any other Sig-Sauer fans feel a little sad that Michael Weston left us for HK? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 13:57, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Yes, me! I was not happy at all. The P228 seemed to fit him so perfectly. I'm not a fan of HKs overpriced stuff. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:44, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Don't get me wrong, the P30 feels GREAT in the hand, but its too damn expensive. Same with the USP, feels okay, but is way too overpriced. SIG-Sauer is still expensive, but you get what you pay for. BTW, if you didn't know I am a DIE-HARD SIG-Sauer fan (except for the new E2 or whatever, hate that) and I wish they would have given him a P229R or even a SIG-Pro, idc which model of SIG-Pro. Both in DA/SA of course. I could rant on SOOO much longer, but I have to stop myself.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:54, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Isn't the E2 now pretty much what the standard for what a P226 looks like now?--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 03:25, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yes, and it makes me SOOOO mad that they didn't at least keep the standard grips availiable for people that prefer them. Plus, they changed the slide of the P229 to where it looks just like a P228R.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:03, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

It's only like when they made all of the pistols with a rail. I hate the railed frame it looks so ugly. I'd prefer them to offer at least a "classic" version with original grips and no rail. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:14, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:I like both frames, and I think they should have kept all three as an option. You could choose unrailed or railed, then choose the grips (classic P226, newer style, or E2).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:08, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

::Or... You can just buy an older version. :I - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:20, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

Sounds good. Let's contact SIG Sauer with our idea lol. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:36, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

I thought it was a nice change to see him with a new sidearm. Its like when they changed weapons in Stargate from the MP5 to the P90

Finally the SIG has been completely phased out in Season 5 Episode 5 'Square One'. Fiona melts it with thermite(?). --[[User:Devang.home47|Devang.home47]] 21:53, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

That wasn't his P228. That was a P226 that was used to try and set Michael up. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:51, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

I can't be too sure, but it seems from the recent episodes that Michael is back with the Sig. I haven't been able to pause the show on any clear, not blurry shots. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 08:19, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol in S04E15 "Brotherly Love" ==

Did anybody notice the gun that Michael gave to Sam in the loft, the one that he said that Fiona had modified to fire 3-round bursts? It only showed it for a second, so I didn't get a good lock at it, and I was just wondering if anybody here did and recognized it --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

HK VP70, I think. He probably meant Fiona altered it to fire burst without the stock attached.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 07:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that does indeed look like what I saw. Never even heard of that pistol before, and I consider myself somewhat of a gun nut, so it's cool to learn about a new gun. It's kind of neat how they build the selector switch into the stock mount. Thanks for the info! --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

Do you think there is any reason they chose to modify a VP70 rather than just use a 93R or G18? It just seemed odd to me that they used a relatively obscure pistol for this role. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:26, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:VP70 is hardly obscure, role in Aliens + first polymer handgun evar. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

::But it was best known for its role as Leon S. Kennedy's sidearm in Resident Evil 2. Thanks in no small part that it was called by its real name, aww, the good old days. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:47, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I suppose you are right, it isn't that obscure to those that frequent this website. It is one of the things that makes me love this show so much; their accuracy, attention to detail and choice of equipment make it a different cut to most junk on TV these days. It is still a bit of a surprise that they chose to modify, unless this is a wink to Fi's associates and maybe Seymore, the arms dealer? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 17:31, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

I just did a bit of research on the internet and found out that the VP70M had a selector built into the detachable stock that allowed semi-auto or three round burst. So my question about why they didn't choose a burst pistol now looks a little dumb. Thanks for the comments though. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:53, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== Mike's Holster ==

Anyone have any clue what holster Mike uses? You don't get a lot of good looks at it, but you get a fairly good one in Season 1's 'Unpaid Debts', when he's walking away from the screen after they kidnap the brother of the pimp. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:32, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

It changes. Ive seen an iwb, a Small of back serpa, mexican carry, etc.

==Jesse's Rifle==

Okay, dont attack me for this but i think in season 4's guilty as charged Jesse is using a HK416. Look at the gas black, Hk front sight and the lower side rails. With all the othe Hk love in series 4 it wouldnt be too abnormal to have a 416 turn up --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 14:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

How does one go about submitting alterations? In the Episode "Good Soldier" (S2E9) a pistol is listed here as being a S&W 459. I looked a the episode on DVD and it looks like a Kimber SIS. The forward and rear slide serrations are very distinctive.

==639==

Seth Peterson uses a 639 as opposed to a 4006. The front sight is fixed and the trigger guard is round without serrations, features of a second generation, and it also has a single stack frame.

==Beretta Cougar?==

I just noticed this in 3x13 Partners in Crime. It's the gun Michael hands Nate when he asks to keep an eye on mom though it doesn't get used in the episode. Initially I thought it was a Px4, but after brightening it looks like a Beretta Cougar.

Picture (brightened for clarity):

[[File:Burnnoticecoug.jpg]]

- IGemini - 18:40, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Yep, It's a Beretta Cougar. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:16, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

== The Fall of Sam Axe? ==

So, as to the new 'movie', are we making a separate page for it, or are we just adding it all to this one? Personally, I think we should make a new page, since this one is getting kinda long. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:53, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

Yes, since it is a separate movie, it will get a separate page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:05, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
:Okay. It's up on Hulu currently, if anyone wants to start getting screenshots. I'll go back and compile a list of weapons in a while. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:03, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
== MP5 (S4 Finale) ==
I am not entirely sure, but I believe that the MP5s used by Vaughn's men in the Season 4 finale (Last Stand) are of the A5 variant, based on the 3-position; collapsible stock, and the HK "3 round burst" trigger group. This can be clearly seen when Michael, Fiona, and Jesse are at the elevator shaft, talking with Vaughn; Michael's MP5 is slung, with a somewhat clear shot of the fire selector. I can upload a screenshot if necessary. --[[User:Progamer7100|Progamer7100]] 11:23, 8 May 2011 (CDT)

==Season 5==
Just watched the seasons premiere, no new guns to report all have previously been covered on the page. Wondering if the new series Suits on the same network contains any guns and deserves a page. I'm gonna watch it asap anyways (: [[User:Noe|Noe]] 15:35, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Episode 6 has a new one to add: close to the beginning Michael takes a rifle from a sniper that is in the H&K G3 family. It seems to lack the wide selector ring of the G3, most likely an HK91. I'll have a screencap up sometime today. - [[User:IGemini|IGemini]] 04:04 UTC, 1 August 2011

:Episode 7 had some nice toys today. Almost certain there's a bonafide G3 in this episode, you get a clear shot of the selector markings when Sam is setting one up. Jesse was also using something new today, some things make me think either a Ruger SR-556 or an HK416. I'll need a better look. - [[User:IGemini|IGemini]] 02:06 UTC, 4 August 2011

== Spoilers: The murder weapon in Season Five ==

I'll try not to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen the newest episodes, but I'd like to ask something, since I'm not extremely familiar with SIG pistols, or atleast, I'm not too good at identifying them when I only get a quick look at them. Still, in one of the recent episodes, Mike heads to the CIA headquarters for a debriefing, and finds '''Spoilers!''' his contact, dead on the floor with a SIG pistol beside him. Mike melts this gun down using thermite in the next episode. Now, like I said, I'm not too good at identifying SIG pistols, but to me, it looks like a P226 or possibly a P220. Can anyone verify this and possibly grab a decent screencap? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 11:58, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:It was a P226. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 12:22, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

::Thanks for the clarification. Now, can someone get a screencap of it?

:::Um, if it means a lot to you to have a screencap of the P226 from that episode, then you have no right to demand that anyone else provide it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:31, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

== Season Breaks 2011 ==

The series is currently in Season 5, so it may be time to break up this page by season. The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season. Thoughts? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:25, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe

:I find it funny how you two had this exact conversation, word for word, around this time last year. Back on topic, I really don't think it is necessary, and I personally hate shows that are broken up by season, but if you feel the need to, go ahead. Expect LOTS AND LOTS of repeats though.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 10:29, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

Talk:John Spencer

2011-08-10T11:31:40Z

Rebusdi: Copland Date

== Copland Date ==

I changed the date credited to Copland from 2007 to the correct 1997. Particularly big mistake considering this actor died in 2005. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 06:31, 10 August 2011 (CDT)

John Spencer

2011-08-10T11:30:05Z

Rebusdi: /* Film */ Copland was a 1997 film, not 2007.

{{Actor Title|John Spencer}}

[[Image:CopL 022.jpg|thumb|right|500px|John Spencer (1946-2005) as Leo Crasky draws his Model 64 in ''[[Cop Land]]''.]]

==Film==
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Gun'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#DOE7FF width="325"|'''Film'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="400"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Smith & Wesson Model 10]] || Jerry || ''[[WarGames]]'' || Early version, snubnose || 1983
|-
| [[Smith & Wesson Model 64]] || Leo Crasky || ''[[Cop Land]]'' || || 1997

|}

[[Category:Actor]]
[[Category:Actor Male]]
[[Category:Deceased Actor]]

Talk:G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra

2011-07-29T08:04:23Z

Rebusdi: /* Adding Equipment Info */

==Discussion==
If you want to know what that's about, read:

is it just me but is the solder aiming the AT4 holding it backwards

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=62955

At one point they were seriously going to make GI Joe an international force which had an acronym that ''happened'' to be "GI Joe." [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 03:32, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
:Hey Dongs, GI Joe is already ridiculous. Why not go all the way?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

: The trailer for this movie would have made me cry if it weren't for the fact that I can supress such actions-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 17:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::Goddamm it Smith. I don't think you ''get'' retarded action movies.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
: Whatever. If I want to see an action movie I'll go on netflix and get Wasabi, District B13 and Extreme Prejudice.-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 20:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::Those three are all good movies but they are serious. Well, atleast Extreme Prejudice is but the Retarded Action Movie is a great genre. Only if the movie is ''''NOT'''' serious though. For example, if Arnie and the crew that made [[Commando]] acted as if the movie they were making was completely serious, then the movie would be horrible but [[Commando]] doesn't take itself Seriously and because of that, the final product is a complete awesome movie full of one-liners, chessy acting and explosions. It's a perfect non-serious action movie.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
: I am one serious man though, and regard those movies as comedy-not action. Plus, Wasabi is a funny ass movie-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 00:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::Well, i'm a silly man so those movies are great fun to me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:I do admit Commando was hilarious though. SAW BLADE IN THE FACE!-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 17:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::::I consider Commando to be one of the greatest movies of all time. I just love the final fight between Arnie and Bennett because the two of them ditch their guns because they want to fight with knifes. And the whole transition to fighting with knives is beautiful and to end the whole fight, we get Arnold ripping off a huge steam pipe and shoving it onto Bennett's chest and then Arnie says one of the best-one liners ever. "Let off some steam, Bennett." It's an awesome movie.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Also, hats off the the writers for giving Arnie's daughter a name they knew he couldn't pronounce, leaving him stomping around yelling "CHENNY WHERE ARE YOU CHENNY" for half the movie. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 19:55, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::I can't believe i didn't notice that until now. That is really funny.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I saw a trailer for this last night, looks to me like G.I. Joe meets ''[[Crysis]]'' or ''Halo''. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 18:02, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:The clothes the Joes wear do look alot like the nanosuits from [[Crysis]].-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

==African battle scene flashback==
Hi, there [[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]]. Like your G.I. Joe Rise of Cobra screenshots.

A favor, in Duke's flashback scene where he and Ripcord were in the African desert, can you send me some screenshots of the unit's weapons? I think I saw an M16A2 with Knights' RIS and M203 grenade launcher among the guns they used in the scene.

Here:

Believe it or not, these are the best shots of the M16 available, they just move it around too much to get a better one.

Here's some extra ones:

Duke firing his M4A1. Flashlight switch is attached to his lower receiver.]]

Ripcord reloading his M4A1. Note flashlight pressure switch above the trigger of the M203

Right now I'm trying to find a good shot of Ripcords 1911. I'm sure I saw it, but just can't find it. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Female Joes ==
Is it just me or are they going to cast alot of hot women as the female Joes in this movie? I mean i get it that this is a retarded action-movie but it's not like action-movies need tits or an love interest.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I watched it yesterday, it doesnt just have love interest, it has a complicated (read retarded) love triangle, that has everything you need, mind control, a crazy egomaniac, tragic past events (with flashbacks) and sci fi gun fights, what else could you ask for
:Lemme guess. It's between a male Joe and Scarlett and the Baroness?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Not quite between duke, the baroness and destro, but your idea could have worked better

The only thing that pissed me off was that they didn't include Lady Jaye or (my personal favorite of the lady Joes) Mayday. I mean, come on, Lady Jaye is the ''original'' GI Jane! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Any one else notice? ==

Hey, just saw the movie and checked on here to see if you guys knew anything about the handfull of 1911s in the movie. There are a few nice shots especially when Duke is holding the baroness at gunpoint with what looks like a taurus pt1911 or a Kimber similar to the ones used in S.W.A.T. Not to mention the general (Dennis Quaid) has a 1911 that stays holstered the majority of the movie except when attacked by stormshadow. It appeared to have a mainspring magwell on it and original G.I. (no pun intended) grips. Any help would be awesome....thanks!
:I believe Duke does use a Kimber, and it also appears to have attachment rail too, so it's probably a Kimber Warrior. I think Ripcord also hold the same sidearm, which got cut in half by Storm Shadow.
:Yeah, Warrior is what came to mind when I first saw them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:47, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Here's some screenshots so you guys can determine what they use

Dukes:

Duke is clear but the 1911 is a bit blurry. Best shot I could find
Dukes 1911 does look like a kimber warrior. Wide space front and back cocking serrations and a gi style guide rod. - Jan

Ripcords:

This is during the training montage so it could be a different one that gets cut in half.

General Hawks:

:I don't know guns well enough to even start guessing which version of the 1911 this is. The part where he pulls it out is too dark and blurry. If it helps, the slide is black. I know this because it kept blending in with a bookcase, his shirt, and a closet every time I tried to get a good screenshot. Also, there's no good shots of the guns the Secret Service agents use. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:26, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Shotgun FIring Like A Machine Gun? ==

I saw G.I. Joe last week, and during the attack on the Pit scene, Duke fires an automatic shotgun at a Neo-Viper, and I noticed it was firing like a machine gun (with machine gun sounds too). Wtf?! Someone screwed something up on the props or they just thought because it looked like a machine gun, no one would notice. I just thought it was weird.

it actually fires that that's the sound it makes

Its actually an AA-12 to the best of my knowledge. Its a Military assault shotgun featured on Future weapons. It can also fire a 12 guage grenade and with a full magazine can fire them in full auto.

I know the AA-12 is a full auto shotgun, but the sound it made in the movie when Duke was shooting at Baroness as she was escaping the Pit was more a "ratatatat" like the m4 and not the "chugchugchug" like it did in future weapons. - Jan

Jan, I noticd that too. It was definitely a mistake. I was excited to see that in the movie, then he shot it and i was like wtf? It sounded like u described it like an m4 firing auto not the aa12

== Unknown Rifle ==
I have a screen shot of an unknown rifle being shot next to the G36C in the beginning ambush sequence. It looks like a DSA SA58 OSW to me but I wanted to make sure. - [[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]]

The rifle in question is not a DS Arms FAL, its a Galil SAR/AR modified with some sort of optic and accessory rail

== Grenades ==
I believe these are Mk 2 "Pineapple" grenades, but I could be wrong - [[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]]
Yes, the whole time the left side has an afterimage. The FX guys must have taken a still and just added the special effects without bothering to fix the problem.]]

== Screencaps ==
Where the hell did you get those screencaps? They are not from a Bootleg are they?--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:36, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

:Yeah. I can get screen caps for District 9 also if you want. By bootleg, do you mean I got them from a guy in the street? If that's so , then no. And I did not use any kind of p2p program either.
::You what a bootleg is, righ? It's an illegal copy of an movie or videogame or music cd. If you didn't use a bootleg, how did you get those screencaps? Also, sign your posts by doing this: [[Image:Sigbutton.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:55, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, they are bootleg, how else do you think I got them. If you feel so strongly about it, then delete them and my account for all I care, I'm just trying to help.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
::We know you are just trying to help. You've got your heart in the right place. The thing is, those screencaps are copyright infringiment. Some studio watchdog could come in here and get all of us in deep shit.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:06, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
::It seems Dangerman is uploading screencaps. Are they from a bootleg version?--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:46, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
:::The DVD came out last Tues, I thought about capping it but I didn't care for the movie all that much.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
:::They're not bootleg. They're from a digital copy from the official Blu-Ray which was released last Tuesday. --[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 23:42, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
::::Oh. Okey then. Carry on. I didn't know the movie was released.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== Heavy's weapons ==
Heavy seems to use a M249 w/ M203 and a Sage rotary launcher to destroy the machines used by cobra to get into the Joe's base

From the Heavy Duty action figure I purchased his M249 does have a M203 (with a magazine strangely enough) and a rotary grenade launcher.

==Vehicle I.D.==

Anyone know what Brandon Frasier is riding in this screenshot? This is just a curiosity for me. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:07, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

hi gunkatas this is my first post

the vehicle is an all-black Can-Am Spyder

:~)

Unknown pistol

its a SIG P229 Sport

== Weapons ID ==

Need ID for the rifle on the left.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 23:37, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Gi joe g36 1.jpg|none|thumb|600px]]

:Looks like a DSA SA58 OSW, but not sure if the magazine is fat enough to be a 7.62 looks like 5.56. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 00:03, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg‎ ‎|thumb|500px|none|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine 7.62x51mm]]

I think you're correct, thanks. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 00:09, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Wrong, thats a Galil ARM or SAR, cant be determined from the image

It appears to have an optic and accessory rail installed

Mag is too thin to be .308 anyway

The mag release is definitely from a Galil.

==Kimber Warrior==

It just seems like anything that looks like a kimber is classified as a Warrior on this site. The 1911 pictured in Hawk's holster looks nothing like the Warrior with its mag well and flush fitting grips and lack of KimPro finish...So why, i ask, is it under a Warrior head line? [[Spades of Columbia]]

==UMP==
[[Image:Gi_joe_mp5_1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
The lowest SMG on the right hand side looks like the front sight and grip of a UMP.

== Optics On F2000 ==

Can anyone identify what are the attached optics on the F2000s during the bunker training montage. The one on Duke's looks a bit like a Trijicon ACOG mounted backwards, and Ripcord's looks a bit like the Trijicon TriPower. Am I even close? Thanks. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 13:31, 26 July 2011 (CDT)
:I think they both have the same sight. Definitely not a backwards ACOG, could be right with Tripowers though. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== Steyr SPP ==
Anyone else think that there is a Steyr SPP visible in the Joes' armoury, hung just above the G36Cs?
[[File:GIJoe049.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
It appears to be in some sort of cradle that blocks the view of most of it, but the muzzle, ejection port and charging handle are all visible and appear to match those of an SPP. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:15, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== Adding Equipment Info ==

Hi, just wanted to check with the people who have done the wonderful job of building the page before I start mucking about. Is it all right if I add some info about the kit on the weapons? For instance, on the G36's in the ambush scene I believe that you can tell that they have C-More Red Dot Sights attached to their rail (also one of the Paris SWAT has the same attachment, worth adding?), and that Duke has a Trijicon ACOG/RMR combo on his HK416. I know that this is IMFDB not IMEquipmentDB, but its all for the fun of the viewer/reader. Trying to have some etiquette before I add a lot to your page. Thanks --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 20:49, 28 July 2011 (CDT)

:We often ID accessories, so I can't see why it wouldn't be ok. As long as you don't start randomly identifying pens and shoes and such. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:59, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

:: Don't worry, I'm not too crazy :). I have been using IMFDB for a while on the discussion pages and small edits, but haven't done any major work so please tidy up my mistakes so that I can learn how to be a better contributor. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 03:04, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

Talk:G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra

2011-07-29T01:49:57Z

Rebusdi: /* Adding Equipment Info */ new section

Talk:Burn Notice

2011-07-27T23:57:49Z

Rebusdi: /* Pistol in S04E15 "Brotherly Love" */

==Lol Wut?==
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: "I know that in the new Burn Notice episode "Question & Answer," a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is "Double Down" look it up." Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.

Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)

:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the "Edit" button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).

::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester

::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW

:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor

:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:

:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on "The Unit"). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.

:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like "not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle" instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked. That's definetly not a Jericho. I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model. Here's the image I got

[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

It is either a S&W 4006 or S&W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a bit late to the party but that looks like a S&W 645 to me because of the exposed screws. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

It's great to know I'm not seeing things :) I've always thought that gun was either a 645 or an earlier (I think) version of the 659 with small iron sights. But I just kind of deferred to all the other guys' experience on this one and kept quiet. - [[User:TrueBeliever19|TrueBeliever19]]

== Fiona's assault rifle ==

I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).

It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?

they assault rifle Fiona got from Seymour (arms dealer) was an M4A1 carbine with what appeared to be an Ampoint (possibly ACOG) anpeq-2 and some type of verticle grip. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:20, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sam's Rifle ==
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona. Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing. It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR. I don't think it's an SR-25. They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone is dissing Bruce Campbell firing the MP5 PDW without using the sights. I just saw a show on Discovery channel about the Iran hostage crisis and it interviewed two former SAS operatives. Its standard for them to point shoot small arms with intense practice and instinct in close quarters. Afterall Sam is a former SEAL. --~~

==Mark 23==
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!

==sig 226==

i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,

==Errors==
2 Errors of note: The Steyr is a Remington 700. The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present. It's not a ProHunter either.

The Winchester 1300's aren't either. Note the lack of v-shaped reciever. They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.

I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]

==Accuracy International==

During the episode "Double Booked" Michael apparently assembles an "AI AWC" but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.

== Desert Eagle ==

Added Desert Eagle to handgun list. Season 3 Episode 4 "Fearless Leader". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010
(UTC)

== Beretta Tomcat==

In Season 3 Episode 8 "Friends Like These". Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.
==SIG not Glock==
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered SIG.]]
This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?
This gun is a SIG non-gun. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:04, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a P226

==HK USP compact 45==
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.

on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45

==Fiona's M1==
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''
 

:''The "Family Business" M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in "Turn and Burn."

==Fiona's rifle==
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?

I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle

I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&catalog_=B

::You are right. Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==S3Ep13==
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==

Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

== Great show ==
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, right on. "Honey! I got you a S&W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!" --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

ha ha that funny . but id rather hang with michael . i like him . maybe pick up a few things . fight moves , learn to speak russian , and some super cool
spy stuff. im happy its on tonight. simmons 8492

== CZ 75BD ==

In season 3 episode 6 "the hunter" Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

==BNS4==
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

damn right brother , i love this show so much . simmons 8492

==Khan's Gun==

what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp

[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px ]]

That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&W. [[Spades of Columbia]]

: Nope. [[Smith & Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]

==What are these==

these guns look really dressed up

[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors

-Double Agent M

Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes

- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.

[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode? It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]

Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]

[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?

looks like a non gun

Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.

Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.

It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911). And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now. Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Original CZ 75... ==

In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]

I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.

[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==S04E06==

Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :<.

==S04E09==
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&K P30 on Michael

== Breaking Up By Season? ==

The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season. The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season. Thoughts? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe

== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the "laser targeting assist" she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==Remington 870==

wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the "water shell" is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the "water round." No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
::They look like nickel plated Winchester 1300 defenders with pistol grips and standard mag tubes. And I don't think they're airsoft, if you look down the barrel of one of them in the case, you see residue from firing blanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:: Winchester 1300 Defs? Bah, why didn't I think of that? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::- Not a 1300 either. 1300s have a single pin, and the safety button would be visible as would the slide release. And the "residue" could be just about anything, and I think its more likely to be from lighting. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 21:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

==Robert Patrick==

Robert Patrick uses the USP with the silver slide in the most recent episode. -- [[User:K|K]] 12:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==Jessie's Rifle==

Anyone know what Jessie was using when he "shot" Micheal in the finale? --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

It's listed on here as a Colt Model 933 but I don't think it is. If you look at the rail and the front sights it looks like a HK416 to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:02, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

== Not a Remington 700? ==

Is this not a Remington 700? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:BNassassinRifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Evelyn the assassin ([[Lucy Lawless]]) adjusts the scope on her Remington.]]
[[Image:BNassassinRifle2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A view of the other end of the Remington: the end you would rather be behind.]]
I don't think this is correct, at least based on the picture of the 700PSS provided. Look at the bolt handle, not what on a factory Remington 700. And the stock is too glossy and smooth looking to be a tactical rifle

== H&K P30 or HK45? I think this gun is misidentified. ==

This looks more like a Heckler and Koch P30 than an HK45. They are very similar looking except the external safety on the HK45, the bottom of the magazine is different, and the HK45 is larger.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/4/41/BurnS4_309.jpg/500px-BurnS4_309.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/c/c8/HH45.jpg/400px-HH45.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/12/HK-P30.jpg/350px-HK-P30.jpg

(I tried to post the pictures but couldn't get it to work). Notice the difference in the bottom of the magazine. The HK45 is also a full-size, the P30 is a compact. Notice the slight difference in the length of the slide. The gun in his hand looks more like a compact, and the slide looks shorter than the HK45. I'm new, so I'm not going to change anything myself. Just a suggestion.

SnakeDoc

Its definately A P30.. you can tell by the trigger guard

== New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? ==

The attached picture from Burn Notice may show Weston carrying an HK P30 9mm. (Again, I can't figure how to embed the picture).

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/113/1135169/burn-notice-20101117073255292_640w.jpg

It is a publicity still from the latest episode (aired in late November). If I recall the episode correctly, he drew the gun on his own (didn't recover it from someone else) and used it to shoot a fake chemical weapon cannister filled with tear gas and pesticide.
It looks like an H&K to me ... too small to be an HK45, not square enough to be a USP Compact. I'm pretty sure it isn't Weston's usual Sig, though I am unsure if it represents a permanent change in sidearm of choice.

Hope not, SIG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HK, like is way better.

Its definatetly a P30. Personally i think a new gun would be good the P228 is outdated and is used by everybody in most T.V shows so a new gun like the P30 would be good.. OR stay with Sig and get the P229 E2

honestiy , i like the P228 with him . its been with him since the pilot so i say , if it aint broke dont fix it simmons 8492

Its his signature weapon, seriously signature weapons cant be changed.

:Yep, it's official: Michael Weston has switched to the H&K P30 as his new sidearm. I was a bit disappointed, as I hoped he would just get a newer SIG (i.e. the P229R, SP2022, or P250), but P30 it is. I figured it was inevitable at some point he was gonna switch sidearms. Actually, I'm surprised he had the 228 for as long as he did, considering the assortment of new(er) pistols that have been used by other characters on the show (like the Walther PPS, FN Five-Seven USG, and Springfield XD, among others). I would have figured it's a rule in Hollywood that the protagonist always has to have the best gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

XD was only briefly shown in one episode, I believe 5-7 was too. Look at Sam, conealing a beretta the whole series, Fiona likes her ppk and michael had a SIG. Now I have to see a HK.......Sigh. A PPS may be a better choice for a new gun for Fiona. And the 92 is a beast, maybe something SIG sized for Sam would be appropriate, hes also a former seal so it would make sense.

: Signature weapons can change occasionally. Jack Bauer switched from a Sig to an H&K USP Compact between Seasons 2 and 3 of 24 (he used the USPc for the remaining seasons). I don't mind the change. I actually like the P30 quite a bit personally, so its good to see it getting a bit more publicity. -- SnakeDoc

I hate HK, I mean, a rail that only takes their special accessories, instead of a standard rail everybody else uses, since there you know, too good for a streamlight or what not, and they got a mag release on the trigger guard instead of the grip. The sig is compact, accurate, reliable, and has the ergos right.

-k9870

: The P30 has a standard rail.

-looks like the 228 is back in the finale ;)

Agreed the Sig is back for the finale show down... I agree i'd love to see him make the practical and logical step to a Sig P229R DAK... because in a adreneline situation who wants to remember long pull short pull---ST0NEFIELD

::Me.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:26, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

-Can we get some pictures of him using a P30 because I can't find any

:Who keeps deleting the line about Michael Westen changing his sidearm to a P30? I added it once, it got deleted, I added it again, and it is deleted again. I am going to add it again (along with some pics), and I ask that whoever keeps deleting it stops. Thanks.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:05, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

He has reverted back to the HK P30 as of the first episode of the fifth season.

Did any other Sig-Sauer fans feel a little sad that Michael Weston left us for HK? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 13:57, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Yes, me! I was not happy at all. The P228 seemed to fit him so perfectly. I'm not a fan of HKs overpriced stuff. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:44, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Don't get me wrong, the P30 feels GREAT in the hand, but its too damn expensive. Same with the USP, feels okay, but is way too overpriced. SIG-Sauer is still expensive, but you get what you pay for. BTW, if you didn't know I am a DIE-HARD SIG-Sauer fan (except for the new E2 or whatever, hate that) and I wish they would have given him a P229R or even a SIG-Pro, idc which model of SIG-Pro. Both in DA/SA of course. I could rant on SOOO much longer, but I have to stop myself.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:54, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Isn't the E2 now pretty much what the standard for what a P226 looks like now?--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 03:25, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yes, and it makes me SOOOO mad that they didn't at least keep the standard grips availiable for people that prefer them. Plus, they changed the slide of the P229 to where it looks just like a P228R.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:03, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

It's only like when they made all of the pistols with a rail. I hate the railed frame it looks so ugly. I'd prefer them to offer at least a "classic" version with original grips and no rail. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:14, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:I like both frames, and I think they should have kept all three as an option. You could choose unrailed or railed, then choose the grips (classic P226, newer style, or E2).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:08, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

Sounds good. Let's contact SIG Sauer with our idea lol. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:36, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

I thought it was a nice change to see him with a new sidearm. Its like when they changed weapons in Stargate from the MP5 to the P90

Finally the SIG has been completely phased out in Season 5 Episode 5 'Square One'. Fiona melts it with thermite(?). --[[User:Devang.home47|Devang.home47]] 21:53, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol in S04E15 "Brotherly Love" ==

Did anybody notice the gun that Michael gave to Sam in the loft, the one that he said that Fiona had modified to fire 3-round bursts? It only showed it for a second, so I didn't get a good lock at it, and I was just wondering if anybody here did and recognized it --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

HK VP70, I think. He probably meant Fiona altered it to fire burst without the stock attached.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 07:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that does indeed look like what I saw. Never even heard of that pistol before, and I consider myself somewhat of a gun nut, so it's cool to learn about a new gun. It's kind of neat how they build the selector switch into the stock mount. Thanks for the info! --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

Do you think there is any reason they chose to modify a VP70 rather than just use a 93R or G18? It just seemed odd to me that they used a relatively obscure pistol for this role. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:26, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:VP70 is hardly obscure, role in Aliens + first polymer handgun evar. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

::But it was best known for its role as Leon S. Kennedy's sidearm in Resident Evil 2. Thanks in no small part that it was called by its real name, aww, the good old days. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:47, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I suppose you are right, it isn't that obscure to those that frequent this website. It is one of the things that makes me love this show so much; their accuracy, attention to detail and choice of equipment make it a different cut to most junk on TV these days. It is still a bit of a surprise that they chose to modify, unless this is a wink to Fi's associates and maybe Seymore, the arms dealer? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 17:31, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

I just did a bit of research on the internet and found out that the VP70M had a selector built into the detachable stock that allowed semi-auto or three round burst. So my question about why they didn't choose a burst pistol now looks a little dumb. Thanks for the comments though. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:53, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== Mike's Holster ==

Anyone have any clue what holster Mike uses? You don't get a lot of good looks at it, but you get a fairly good one in Season 1's 'Unpaid Debts', when he's walking away from the screen after they kidnap the brother of the pimp. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:32, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

It changes. Ive seen an iwb, a Small of back serpa, mexican carry, etc.

==Jesse's Rifle==

Okay, dont attack me for this but i think in season 4's guilty as charged Jesse is using a HK416. Look at the gas black, Hk front sight and the lower side rails. With all the othe Hk love in series 4 it wouldnt be too abnormal to have a 416 turn up --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 14:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

How does one go about submitting alterations? In the Episode "Good Soldier" (S2E9) a pistol is listed here as being a S&W 459. I looked a the episode on DVD and it looks like a Kimber SIS. The forward and rear slide serrations are very distinctive.

==639==

Seth Peterson uses a 639 as opposed to a 4006. The front sight is fixed and the trigger guard is round without serrations, features of a second generation, and it also has a single stack frame.

==Beretta Cougar?==

I just noticed this in 3x13 Partners in Crime. It's the gun Michael hands Nate when he asks to keep an eye on mom though it doesn't get used in the episode. Initially I thought it was a Px4, but after brightening it looks like a Beretta Cougar.

Picture (brightened for clarity):

[[File:Burnnoticecoug.jpg]]

- IGemini - 18:40, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Yep, It's a Beretta Cougar. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:16, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

== The Fall of Sam Axe? ==

So, as to the new 'movie', are we making a separate page for it, or are we just adding it all to this one? Personally, I think we should make a new page, since this one is getting kinda long. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:53, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

Yes, since it is a separate movie, it will get a separate page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:05, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
:Okay. It's up on Hulu currently, if anyone wants to start getting screenshots. I'll go back and compile a list of weapons in a while. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:03, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
== MP5 (S4 Finale) ==
I am not entirely sure, but I believe that the MP5s used by Vaughn's men in the Season 4 finale (Last Stand) are of the A5 variant, based on the 3-position; collapsible stock, and the HK "3 round burst" trigger group. This can be clearly seen when Michael, Fiona, and Jesse are at the elevator shaft, talking with Vaughn; Michael's MP5 is slung, with a somewhat clear shot of the fire selector. I can upload a screenshot if necessary. --[[User:Progamer7100|Progamer7100]] 11:23, 8 May 2011 (CDT)

==Season 5==
Just watched the seasons premiere, no new guns to report all have previously been covered on the page. Wondering if the new series Suits on the same network contains any guns and deserves a page. I'm gonna watch it asap anyways (: [[User:Noe|Noe]] 15:35, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

== Spoilers: The murder weapon in Season Five ==

I'll try not to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen the newest episodes, but I'd like to ask something, since I'm not extremely familiar with SIG pistols, or atleast, I'm not too good at identifying them when I only get a quick look at them. Still, in one of the recent episodes, Mike heads to the CIA headquarters for a debriefing, and finds '''Spoilers!''' his contact, dead on the floor with a SIG pistol beside him. Mike melts this gun down using thermite in the next episode. Now, like I said, I'm not too good at identifying SIG pistols, but to me, it looks like a P226 or possibly a P220. Can anyone verify this and possibly grab a decent screencap? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 11:58, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:It was a P226. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 12:22, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2011-07-27T23:57:27Z

Rebusdi: /* Question about the buffer tube */

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in ''[[Uncommon Valor]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film ''[[Scarface]]''. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A1 with 20-round magazine, fitted with scope - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mockcommando.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:GUU-5P.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GUU-5/P - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Colt Law Enforcement Model 6920 Carbine..jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Law Enforcement Carbine with ACOG scope and PentagonLight MD3R weaponlight, screen-used weapon from ''[[I Am Legend]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M148.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm with a mounted [[XM148 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:K3B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Olympic Arms K3B carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A3 Carbine with EOTech red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A4M203ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 rifle - 5.56x45mm with ACOG scope and M203 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:CAXM177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Classic Army XM177 airsoft replica rifle - 5.56x45mm (of the type used by SF troops in some scenes of the movie ''[[Green Zone]]'').]]
[[Image:Cam15a4tacticalcarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Classic Army M15A4 airsoft carbine rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
this is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:M653M203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 653 5.56x45mm with magazine removed and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

An airsoft gun and a cap gun aren't the same thing. LOL [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:43, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Caddilac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

So why not update this page to include current issue M16A4 rifles?
(unless you don't know what they are....)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16 series are the ONLY assault rifles (except the [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:g41-series&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&Itemid=5/ HK G41], which is made to be like the M16 and is no longer produced) in the world to have a forward assist. Why don't other assault rifles have a forward assist? (ie. the AK-74, G36 etc.) Because other assault rifles are more reliable and don't need it. :)
::Uh more associated with the design of the Bolt than being more reliable. The AK series have a bolt handle attached DIRECTLY to the bolt carrier as do many other designs. If there is debris or fouling in the chamber which keeps a round from seating properly you can just jam the handle forward (I've done this in the field when my AK / Garand / Galil / M 14 / etc jammed) I once had a tiny piece of bark (I was firing under trees) which fell from above and fell into the ejection port and made the round 'stick' really badly in the chamber so that it would not seat properly. The M16 design has no way other than the forward assist to nudge the bolt & carrier forward enough to fire and kick that crap free of the action. But I wouldn't bash the M16 as an "unreliable" rifle. I'd sure take it into battle right now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright, I understand. thanks for the extra info. I'm not saying the M16/M4 is a complete piece of crap, but it's definitely not the BEST ASSAULT RIFLE IN THE WORLD! like we Americans like to state all the time (*rolls eyes*). You and me both know the M16/M4 is no where as reliable as the G36 or the AK series. But at least it's better than the L85 series, now that's a piece crap rifle. :D *Edit: Well at least the L85A1, the L85A2 is OK. kinda like the M16/M16A1s sucks but the M16A2/A4s are good.

::::I have to completely disagree with what you say, i don't wish to come off as passive aggresive but you sound like a mall ninja that learned their weapons knowledge from seeing them perform in videogames or hearing public opinions on weapons from the news or other sources. The M16 family of rifles are both fine and fairly reliable weapons, while much of that view has been skewed by the fact they were portrayed as unreliable during conflicts such as Vietnam, is incorrect to a degree. The M16 is a reliable and capable weapon when cleaned and properly maintained, it simply lacks the ability to stay so when not properly serviced, as some other rifles such as the AKM can function fine without cleaning, the M16 can not. As for your comment on the L85 series, yes they were somewhat poor and unreliable weapons at first, coupled with poor grips and clumsy to handle for certain users, however the newer models have made large improvements and are very capable firearms. As i feel it needs to be said (or typed) a common mistake people make is assuming that militaries have access and funding to field their troops with the best weapons available, which is not always the case as most countries don't have the money to field an Army with rifles that can cost up to $5000-10000 per unit. Which is where the workhorses like M16's come in, you go for the "good" rifle not the "great" one. Also, although off-topic it somewhat pertains to the M16, most mall ninja's assume the AK-family is better because it is more reliable and fires a heavier cartridge, I've always asked "would you want a round that's going to pierce right through an enemy and leave an easy to treat wound, or have a round that hits an enemy and fragments inside them causing an ungodly bloody mess?" Hopefully esteemed imfdb members such as MPM2008 will agree with and share my viewpoint concerning this subject, as well as not condemn me for my long comment. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 13:24, 06 March 2011 (UTC)

::::The issues of jamming during the Vietnam War had more to do with ammunition and the lack of a chrome-lined chamber and barrel than the rifle's so-called "dirty" gas system. In 1964 the Army switched from stick powder to ball powder, which increased the rate of fire to over 1,000 RPM and left a lot of dirty residue in the weapon. This was only exacerbated by the lack of cleaning kits and training on how to maintain the weapon. They fixed the issue by fitting the rifle with a buffer system (which slowed the ROF down) and chrome-plated chamber. Training programs in weapon maintenance were instituted and an instruction book on how to maintain the rifle was circulated among troops. After further modifications resulted in the M16A1, many of the reliability issues disappeared (although even today, the weapon has yet to shed its bad reputation). The M16A2, A3, A4, and M4 carbine of today are an entirely different breed of warrior than the prototypes that were issued back in the 60s. While it may admittedly be a bit finicky, the M16 today is a good weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah but it's still a very fussy weapon, it's not very durable, and it has much more malfunctions/jams then say the H&K G36, but none the less it's still a excellent weapons platform, mostly. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- No prob, dude - I'm just glad you got what I was gettin' at. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

i would be shocked if they couldnt pick their weapons. their the best soldiers on the planet. it just doesnt make sense not to be able to. it would be like giving a star baseball player a 10 dollar glove. itll do but why wouldnt they get the best thats out there. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Reg army units use the burst M4, not the full auto A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

A couple of months ago when I was at a military base there were Marines conducting a weapons demo with the M4 carbine. It was the 3-round burst rifle, but a question came up about the M4A1. One Marine said that they got rid of all M4A1s and only have M4s. I personally don't see the need for a full-auto rifle and 3-round burst is fine because it forces the user to slow down and most of the time the user uses semi-only, combat or not, but that is my opinion. The M4A1 is still probabley used by the US Military, but I'm not sure, I haven't seen one in a long time.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Accurized Rifle ==

After seeing several pages of real firearms appearing in only one film or game, I was wondering if I should expand this page with a new section for the [http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp Colt Accurized Rifle], which to my knowledge has only ever appeared in [[S.W.A.T. 4]]. Before I do that, I need to confirm two things:

*Is the Colt Accurized Rifle indeed another variant on the M16 line of rifles, or a separate take on the AR-15 design altogether? I suppose there's a reason why we don't include the [[Z-M LR 300]] in the M16 page because it's the latter--I need to know if the Colt Accurized Rifle falls in that category.
*Including it on this page would make it the first Designated Marksman Rifle variant here. So far I only see assault rifles or carbines here. Would including a DMR in this page be a problem or not?

If there are no real problems, I'll make a new section for it, but I have no idea where I'll get a non-copyright infringment image of one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:It'd be the '''second''' DMR on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but can someone confirm that the Colt Accurized Rifle is indeed descended from the M16 line of assault rifles and not a separate take on the AR-15 design like the aforementioned LR-300 is? I still have no idea where I can get a photo of this DMR that respects copyright. All I have are game screenshots. Some help here, please? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Removeable Carry Handle for Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Does such a Gun exist?

:Not as a production gun (Colt's website makes no mention of one, anyway), but the modular nature of the AR system makes such a configuration entirely possible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==Why do we have a Colt AR-15 SP1 category that is separate from the M16/SP1 category?==
The guns look the same, sure the SP1 had a design change in 1978 (three prong flash hider was changed to birdcage, rear sling swivel was changed to A1 style and the color went from greenish grey to straight grey) but unless we see the stamp on the side that says "Property of U.S. Government" we can't tell if it's a real M16 (which WERE sold via Title II dealers to armories) and a Colt AR15 SP1 which was converted to full auto (which was done A LOT prior to 1986). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== About M4 Commando and M16A4 Full Auto ==

Full Auto M16A4 (Model 905) is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901]

[http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com_2.asp Model 933] ''is'' M4 Commando (Full Auto)

[http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp Manufacturer's site] says it all.

== Colt Model 653 barrel length ==

Am trying to pin down what a gun is for a page I'm working on. It has a forward assist but no deflector, A1 rear sight, M4 length tubular handguard, 16" barrel with birdcage flash hider and a solid stock. Basically it matches the gun in the picture for the Model 653 on the main page, apart from having a solid stock but that is easily changeable. However, every source I can find about the 653 says that it has a 14" barrel. Was the gun made in different barrel lengths but kept the same designation, and if not, anyone know what the gun is that is pictured as a 653? Also, while I'm on the topic of obscure colt carbines, does anyone know of a model that will match a 725 (original C8 without the flat-top) but has an A2 rear sight? Thanks, --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:16, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Can anyone figure out what this is? ==

I found this hidden in my computer, I think it's a Colt Canada C7A1 as a base, I can tell it's C7 because of the Canadian leaf on the the lower receiver, it would be an A1 because of the removable carrying-handle. What the heck is that hand-guard? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:02, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
[[Image:Colt Canada C7A1 SPW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C7A1 SPW?]]

::Colt Model 750/Diemaco C7 Light Support Weapon - A modified C7 with an enlarged gas tube (hence the square handguard) and a heavy barrel for sustained fire in the squad automatic weapon role. The C7 LSW is not used by the Canadian Forces but has seen service with the Dutch and Danish militaries. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:34, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
:::Ha! I thought so, thanks. :) Should I remove this section or keep it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

::That's not Colt LSW, that's [http://www.colt.com/mil/CAR.asp Colt Automatic Rifle]. Follow the link and you will see that the image is the larger version of the official one. Meanwhile, [http://www.coltcanada.com/lsw-page.htm Colt LSW] has optional folding carry handle. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:09, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
[[File:Lsw-annot.jpg]]
:::Thanks guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:02, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

::Just to clarify, the Colt automatic rifle, LSW and LMG are all the same weapon. The original version that looks like the one above was the Colt Model 750, which featured a fixed A2 carry handle and barrel mounted bi-pod, and the newer version above is the current production Model 950, with the relocated bi-pod and A4 rear sights. As you said, the folding carry handle is removeable, and the picture on the Colt website is just one without it fitted (note the longer centre vent on the top of the handguard is the mounting point for the handle). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:48, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
:::The original version was based on M16A1:

[[File:M16A1 CAR.jpg]]

:::The one you described was based on M16A2:

[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg]]

Guys, remember back in the 1980s when Colt was trying to vie for the SAW role? Sure the FN Minimi was never knocked off its perch, but Colt came out with a Colt light Machine gun that looked a lot like this. They were selling the barreled uppers on the market for a while in the early 1990s (I know a few friends who have them, but I never got one). This looks like that reincarnated!!! LOL![[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:24, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
:Well, that's all written on [http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/m16-lsw-lmg-e.html Modern Firearms] :P

::Ah yes, you only read about it monkeyboy ;) I was handling and firing that sucker! LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:11, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, and I've found articles of why AR is more advantageous than SAW to US Marine Corps:

:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-employment-concepts M249 Employment Concepts]
:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-light-machinegun-automatic-rifle-role The M249 Light Machinegun In The Automatic Rifle Role]

: Interesting reading, methinks :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 30 April 2011 (CDT)
::Yeah it was. :) You know, I kinda knew LMGs were dying out. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:07, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
::: Not overall, it's just the role they are being used in (automatic rifleman). SAW is still very good in defensive role and laying fire on attacking forces ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

== Heat Dissipation Performance of Carbine Barrel Types? ==

I was wondering, does anyone know what kind of effects the 'cuts' (originally meant for the mounting of the M203 grenade launcher) in the barrel of the M4 and similiarly-styled M16 & AR-15 series carbines has on the heat dissipation performance of the barrel? Do the cuts help the weapon release heat from prolonged firing better than a barrel that has a uniform thickness, or does it hamper that? Any input anyone can provide on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:46, 8 May 2011 (CDT)
:The step down for the grenade launcher is actually pretty negligible in terms of cooling (although it does create a point of weakness to bending), as what you can't see is the fact that as soon as the barrel goes under the handguard it is reduced down to the same narrow diameter as in the cut out, which creates a much bigger effect on cooling. The narrower profile sections have the effect of cooling down the barrel quicker, but they also conversely mean that the barrel heats up quicker, and the heat has a larger effect on the accuracy of the gun. The main advantage however is that it reduces the weight quite a bit. The original reason that the M4 barrel reduces in size behind the handguard is based on the M16A2, which does exactly the same thing where its heavy barrel is actually only thicker past the front sight. This was due to a cock up in the design, where they designed the gun with a full thickness straight barrel, and found that they could then no longer clamp the M203 to the barrel, so the barrels were simply turned down from behind the front sight post. The front of the barrel was left thick due to the fact that the thinner barrels on the M16A1 were being bent at the front from being used as pry-bars to get the loading bands off of shipping pallets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:There is a heavier "SOCOM-profile" barrel that maintains the same diameter beneath the handguards as the standard M4-profile barrel does around the M203 cut and it can mount the M203 just fine.[http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BCM-URG-M4-14SOCOM-2.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:40, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== can you tell me what model of m16/car 15 this is ==

sorry i do not have a pic but i can tell you what is like. me and my dad were talikng about some of the guns he used in the army and he was telling me about this one he said was like an carbine version of the m16a2 and it was like the m4 but had a fixed carring handle and it was used befor the m4 it had safe semi and burst and he said it just had ar15 on the side.-Steviebleckley

:Sounds like the first batch of M4s that were delivered. This is the Colt Model 777, which is basically an M4 with a fixed carry handle, and 3-round burst as opposed to full auto. It is the brother of and visually identical to the 727 mentioned on the main page, where the 727 as full auto as opposed to the burst. If it didn't have the M4 profile barrel though, god knows. Probably a model 654 on an M16 lower receiver or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:02, 13 June 2011 (CDT)

yes it had the same profile as the m4. i gess it was the 777.I will show him the pic of the the 727 since there the same well the 727 is full auto thanks for the info - Steviebleckley

== Question about the buffer tube ==

I'm not one hundred percent sure what it does, and (like the forward assist) that almost no other guns have it. If someone could just clarify, what does it do, why does this rifle series have it, and why don't others/what replaces the buffer tube in other rifles? Thank you in advance. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:27, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
:Basically, it was installed in order to slow down the rate of fire. The very first M16s ended up using a different ammunition powder than they were designed for, which caused a higher rate of fire than desired (about 800 to 1000 rpm I think), leading to excessive fouling in the chamber, and hence lots of stopages. From the M16E1 onwards a buffer tube was added to slow the rate of fire to about 600-700 rpm, and a chrome lined chamber and barrel was added as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:47, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
I'm not sure if this is practical in any way, or even possible, but is their a way to increase the rate of fire on an M16 without the problems of the carbon build-up in the chamber?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)
:Why would you want to increase the rate of fire? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)
No reason, just wondering if it's even possible with a full-auto M16.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 08:09, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:Probably, I see no reason why you couldn't. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm assuming the reason that the high rate of fire caused fouling was that the rate of fire was so quick that the bolt was unlocking and opening before all the powder was fully burnt in the chamber, leaving residue. I'd imagine that you could increase the rate of fire by removing the buffer, and just make sure that whatever powder you were using was fully burnt in the time it takes the bolt to open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:29, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

This might be a silly question, but why is it that the AR-15 design required the buffer tube, and other rifles do not? Is it just located differently, and if so why? It just strikes me that the lack of a folding stock option is a poor design, especially when compared to most assault rifles designed today, SCAR, ACR, etc. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:57, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== Noob Question ==

Ok I have a really dumb question, what is the difference between the Colt M4A1 and the Colt M4A1 Carbine? Or are they the same exact thing? The only reason I asked is when I was looking at the page, the M4A1 and the M4 Carbine look exactly the same, so how can you tell one from the other? - [[User:1morey]] July 22, 2011 11:21 AM (EST)

: The M4A1 and M4A1 'Carbine' are the same thing, the 'carbine' is just optionally showing the proper firearm type. As for the M4 and M4A1, well it ''does'' say the difference in the section but to answer - the M4 has Safe-Semi-Burst fire selection ala the M16A2/M16A4, the M4A1 has full-automatic instead of burst, ala the earlier M16s/M16A1/M16A3. Otherwise they're pretty much identical appearance wise (The M4A1 also has a heavier barrel inside the handguard, which of course you can't tell from the outside). It also notes some commercial AR-15 carbines are given an 'M4' moniker, but aren't the same as actual military M4s. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 12:17, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Burn Notice

2011-07-27T23:53:11Z

Rebusdi: /* Pistol in S04E15 "Brotherly Love" */

==Lol Wut?==
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: "I know that in the new Burn Notice episode "Question & Answer," a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is "Double Down" look it up." Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.

Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)

:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the "Edit" button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).

::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester

::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW

:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor

:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:

:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on "The Unit"). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.

:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like "not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle" instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked. That's definetly not a Jericho. I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model. Here's the image I got

[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

It is either a S&W 4006 or S&W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a bit late to the party but that looks like a S&W 645 to me because of the exposed screws. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

It's great to know I'm not seeing things :) I've always thought that gun was either a 645 or an earlier (I think) version of the 659 with small iron sights. But I just kind of deferred to all the other guys' experience on this one and kept quiet. - [[User:TrueBeliever19|TrueBeliever19]]

== Fiona's assault rifle ==

I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).

It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?

they assault rifle Fiona got from Seymour (arms dealer) was an M4A1 carbine with what appeared to be an Ampoint (possibly ACOG) anpeq-2 and some type of verticle grip. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:20, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sam's Rifle ==
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona. Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing. It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR. I don't think it's an SR-25. They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone is dissing Bruce Campbell firing the MP5 PDW without using the sights. I just saw a show on Discovery channel about the Iran hostage crisis and it interviewed two former SAS operatives. Its standard for them to point shoot small arms with intense practice and instinct in close quarters. Afterall Sam is a former SEAL. --~~

==Mark 23==
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!

==sig 226==

i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,

==Errors==
2 Errors of note: The Steyr is a Remington 700. The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present. It's not a ProHunter either.

The Winchester 1300's aren't either. Note the lack of v-shaped reciever. They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.

I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]

==Accuracy International==

During the episode "Double Booked" Michael apparently assembles an "AI AWC" but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.

== Desert Eagle ==

Added Desert Eagle to handgun list. Season 3 Episode 4 "Fearless Leader". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010
(UTC)

== Beretta Tomcat==

In Season 3 Episode 8 "Friends Like These". Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.
==SIG not Glock==
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered SIG.]]
This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?
This gun is a SIG non-gun. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:04, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a P226

==HK USP compact 45==
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.

on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45

==Fiona's M1==
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''
 

:''The "Family Business" M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in "Turn and Burn."

==Fiona's rifle==
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?

I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle

I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&catalog_=B

::You are right. Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==S3Ep13==
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==

Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

== Great show ==
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, right on. "Honey! I got you a S&W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!" --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

ha ha that funny . but id rather hang with michael . i like him . maybe pick up a few things . fight moves , learn to speak russian , and some super cool
spy stuff. im happy its on tonight. simmons 8492

== CZ 75BD ==

In season 3 episode 6 "the hunter" Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

==BNS4==
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

damn right brother , i love this show so much . simmons 8492

==Khan's Gun==

what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp

[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px ]]

That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&W. [[Spades of Columbia]]

: Nope. [[Smith & Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]

==What are these==

these guns look really dressed up

[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors

-Double Agent M

Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes

- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.

[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode? It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]

Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]

[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?

looks like a non gun

Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.

Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.

It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911). And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now. Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Original CZ 75... ==

In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]

I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.

[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==S04E06==

Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :<.

==S04E09==
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&K P30 on Michael

== Breaking Up By Season? ==

The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season. The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season. Thoughts? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe

== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the "laser targeting assist" she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==Remington 870==

wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the "water shell" is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the "water round." No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
::They look like nickel plated Winchester 1300 defenders with pistol grips and standard mag tubes. And I don't think they're airsoft, if you look down the barrel of one of them in the case, you see residue from firing blanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:: Winchester 1300 Defs? Bah, why didn't I think of that? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::- Not a 1300 either. 1300s have a single pin, and the safety button would be visible as would the slide release. And the "residue" could be just about anything, and I think its more likely to be from lighting. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 21:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

==Robert Patrick==

Robert Patrick uses the USP with the silver slide in the most recent episode. -- [[User:K|K]] 12:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==Jessie's Rifle==

Anyone know what Jessie was using when he "shot" Micheal in the finale? --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

It's listed on here as a Colt Model 933 but I don't think it is. If you look at the rail and the front sights it looks like a HK416 to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:02, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

== Not a Remington 700? ==

Is this not a Remington 700? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:BNassassinRifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Evelyn the assassin ([[Lucy Lawless]]) adjusts the scope on her Remington.]]
[[Image:BNassassinRifle2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A view of the other end of the Remington: the end you would rather be behind.]]
I don't think this is correct, at least based on the picture of the 700PSS provided. Look at the bolt handle, not what on a factory Remington 700. And the stock is too glossy and smooth looking to be a tactical rifle

== H&K P30 or HK45? I think this gun is misidentified. ==

This looks more like a Heckler and Koch P30 than an HK45. They are very similar looking except the external safety on the HK45, the bottom of the magazine is different, and the HK45 is larger.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/4/41/BurnS4_309.jpg/500px-BurnS4_309.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/c/c8/HH45.jpg/400px-HH45.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/12/HK-P30.jpg/350px-HK-P30.jpg

(I tried to post the pictures but couldn't get it to work). Notice the difference in the bottom of the magazine. The HK45 is also a full-size, the P30 is a compact. Notice the slight difference in the length of the slide. The gun in his hand looks more like a compact, and the slide looks shorter than the HK45. I'm new, so I'm not going to change anything myself. Just a suggestion.

SnakeDoc

Its definately A P30.. you can tell by the trigger guard

== New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? ==

The attached picture from Burn Notice may show Weston carrying an HK P30 9mm. (Again, I can't figure how to embed the picture).

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/113/1135169/burn-notice-20101117073255292_640w.jpg

It is a publicity still from the latest episode (aired in late November). If I recall the episode correctly, he drew the gun on his own (didn't recover it from someone else) and used it to shoot a fake chemical weapon cannister filled with tear gas and pesticide.
It looks like an H&K to me ... too small to be an HK45, not square enough to be a USP Compact. I'm pretty sure it isn't Weston's usual Sig, though I am unsure if it represents a permanent change in sidearm of choice.

Hope not, SIG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HK, like is way better.

Its definatetly a P30. Personally i think a new gun would be good the P228 is outdated and is used by everybody in most T.V shows so a new gun like the P30 would be good.. OR stay with Sig and get the P229 E2

honestiy , i like the P228 with him . its been with him since the pilot so i say , if it aint broke dont fix it simmons 8492

Its his signature weapon, seriously signature weapons cant be changed.

:Yep, it's official: Michael Weston has switched to the H&K P30 as his new sidearm. I was a bit disappointed, as I hoped he would just get a newer SIG (i.e. the P229R, SP2022, or P250), but P30 it is. I figured it was inevitable at some point he was gonna switch sidearms. Actually, I'm surprised he had the 228 for as long as he did, considering the assortment of new(er) pistols that have been used by other characters on the show (like the Walther PPS, FN Five-Seven USG, and Springfield XD, among others). I would have figured it's a rule in Hollywood that the protagonist always has to have the best gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

XD was only briefly shown in one episode, I believe 5-7 was too. Look at Sam, conealing a beretta the whole series, Fiona likes her ppk and michael had a SIG. Now I have to see a HK.......Sigh. A PPS may be a better choice for a new gun for Fiona. And the 92 is a beast, maybe something SIG sized for Sam would be appropriate, hes also a former seal so it would make sense.

: Signature weapons can change occasionally. Jack Bauer switched from a Sig to an H&K USP Compact between Seasons 2 and 3 of 24 (he used the USPc for the remaining seasons). I don't mind the change. I actually like the P30 quite a bit personally, so its good to see it getting a bit more publicity. -- SnakeDoc

I hate HK, I mean, a rail that only takes their special accessories, instead of a standard rail everybody else uses, since there you know, too good for a streamlight or what not, and they got a mag release on the trigger guard instead of the grip. The sig is compact, accurate, reliable, and has the ergos right.

-k9870

: The P30 has a standard rail.

-looks like the 228 is back in the finale ;)

Agreed the Sig is back for the finale show down... I agree i'd love to see him make the practical and logical step to a Sig P229R DAK... because in a adreneline situation who wants to remember long pull short pull---ST0NEFIELD

::Me.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:26, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

-Can we get some pictures of him using a P30 because I can't find any

:Who keeps deleting the line about Michael Westen changing his sidearm to a P30? I added it once, it got deleted, I added it again, and it is deleted again. I am going to add it again (along with some pics), and I ask that whoever keeps deleting it stops. Thanks.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:05, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

He has reverted back to the HK P30 as of the first episode of the fifth season.

Did any other Sig-Sauer fans feel a little sad that Michael Weston left us for HK? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 13:57, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Yes, me! I was not happy at all. The P228 seemed to fit him so perfectly. I'm not a fan of HKs overpriced stuff. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:44, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Don't get me wrong, the P30 feels GREAT in the hand, but its too damn expensive. Same with the USP, feels okay, but is way too overpriced. SIG-Sauer is still expensive, but you get what you pay for. BTW, if you didn't know I am a DIE-HARD SIG-Sauer fan (except for the new E2 or whatever, hate that) and I wish they would have given him a P229R or even a SIG-Pro, idc which model of SIG-Pro. Both in DA/SA of course. I could rant on SOOO much longer, but I have to stop myself.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:54, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Isn't the E2 now pretty much what the standard for what a P226 looks like now?--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 03:25, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yes, and it makes me SOOOO mad that they didn't at least keep the standard grips availiable for people that prefer them. Plus, they changed the slide of the P229 to where it looks just like a P228R.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:03, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

It's only like when they made all of the pistols with a rail. I hate the railed frame it looks so ugly. I'd prefer them to offer at least a "classic" version with original grips and no rail. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:14, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:I like both frames, and I think they should have kept all three as an option. You could choose unrailed or railed, then choose the grips (classic P226, newer style, or E2).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:08, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

Sounds good. Let's contact SIG Sauer with our idea lol. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:36, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

I thought it was a nice change to see him with a new sidearm. Its like when they changed weapons in Stargate from the MP5 to the P90

Finally the SIG has been completely phased out in Season 5 Episode 5 'Square One'. Fiona melts it with thermite(?). --[[User:Devang.home47|Devang.home47]] 21:53, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol in S04E15 "Brotherly Love" ==

Did anybody notice the gun that Michael gave to Sam in the loft, the one that he said that Fiona had modified to fire 3-round bursts? It only showed it for a second, so I didn't get a good lock at it, and I was just wondering if anybody here did and recognized it --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

HK VP70, I think. He probably meant Fiona altered it to fire burst without the stock attached.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 07:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that does indeed look like what I saw. Never even heard of that pistol before, and I consider myself somewhat of a gun nut, so it's cool to learn about a new gun. It's kind of neat how they build the selector switch into the stock mount. Thanks for the info! --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

Do you think there is any reason they chose to modify a VP70 rather than just use a 93R or G18? It just seemed odd to me that they used a relatively obscure pistol for this role. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:26, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:VP70 is hardly obscure, role in Aliens + first polymer handgun evar. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

::But it was best known for its role as Leon S. Kennedy's sidearm in Resident Evil 2. Thanks in no small part that it was called by its real name, aww, the good old days. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:47, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I suppose you are right, it isn't that obscure to those that frequent this website. It is one of the things that makes me love this show so much; their accuracy, attention to detail and choice of equipment make it a different cut to most junk on TV these days. It is still a bit of a surprise that they chose to modify, unless this is a wink to Fi's associates and maybe Seymore, the arms dealer? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 17:31, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

I just did a bit of research on the internet and found out that the VP70M had a selector built into the detachable stock that allowed semi-auto or three round burst. So my question about why they didn't choose a burst pistol now looks a little dumb. Thanks for the comment though. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:53, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

== Mike's Holster ==

Anyone have any clue what holster Mike uses? You don't get a lot of good looks at it, but you get a fairly good one in Season 1's 'Unpaid Debts', when he's walking away from the screen after they kidnap the brother of the pimp. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:32, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

It changes. Ive seen an iwb, a Small of back serpa, mexican carry, etc.

==Jesse's Rifle==

Okay, dont attack me for this but i think in season 4's guilty as charged Jesse is using a HK416. Look at the gas black, Hk front sight and the lower side rails. With all the othe Hk love in series 4 it wouldnt be too abnormal to have a 416 turn up --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 14:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

How does one go about submitting alterations? In the Episode "Good Soldier" (S2E9) a pistol is listed here as being a S&W 459. I looked a the episode on DVD and it looks like a Kimber SIS. The forward and rear slide serrations are very distinctive.

==639==

Seth Peterson uses a 639 as opposed to a 4006. The front sight is fixed and the trigger guard is round without serrations, features of a second generation, and it also has a single stack frame.

==Beretta Cougar?==

I just noticed this in 3x13 Partners in Crime. It's the gun Michael hands Nate when he asks to keep an eye on mom though it doesn't get used in the episode. Initially I thought it was a Px4, but after brightening it looks like a Beretta Cougar.

Picture (brightened for clarity):

[[File:Burnnoticecoug.jpg]]

- IGemini - 18:40, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Yep, It's a Beretta Cougar. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:16, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

== The Fall of Sam Axe? ==

So, as to the new 'movie', are we making a separate page for it, or are we just adding it all to this one? Personally, I think we should make a new page, since this one is getting kinda long. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:53, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

Yes, since it is a separate movie, it will get a separate page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:05, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
:Okay. It's up on Hulu currently, if anyone wants to start getting screenshots. I'll go back and compile a list of weapons in a while. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:03, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
== MP5 (S4 Finale) ==
I am not entirely sure, but I believe that the MP5s used by Vaughn's men in the Season 4 finale (Last Stand) are of the A5 variant, based on the 3-position; collapsible stock, and the HK "3 round burst" trigger group. This can be clearly seen when Michael, Fiona, and Jesse are at the elevator shaft, talking with Vaughn; Michael's MP5 is slung, with a somewhat clear shot of the fire selector. I can upload a screenshot if necessary. --[[User:Progamer7100|Progamer7100]] 11:23, 8 May 2011 (CDT)

==Season 5==
Just watched the seasons premiere, no new guns to report all have previously been covered on the page. Wondering if the new series Suits on the same network contains any guns and deserves a page. I'm gonna watch it asap anyways (: [[User:Noe|Noe]] 15:35, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

== Spoilers: The murder weapon in Season Five ==

I'll try not to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen the newest episodes, but I'd like to ask something, since I'm not extremely familiar with SIG pistols, or atleast, I'm not too good at identifying them when I only get a quick look at them. Still, in one of the recent episodes, Mike heads to the CIA headquarters for a debriefing, and finds '''Spoilers!''' his contact, dead on the floor with a SIG pistol beside him. Mike melts this gun down using thermite in the next episode. Now, like I said, I'm not too good at identifying SIG pistols, but to me, it looks like a P226 or possibly a P220. Can anyone verify this and possibly grab a decent screencap? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 11:58, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:It was a P226. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 12:22, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Burn Notice

2011-07-26T22:31:36Z

Rebusdi: /* Pistol in S04E15 "Brotherly Love" */

==Lol Wut?==
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: "I know that in the new Burn Notice episode "Question & Answer," a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is "Double Down" look it up." Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.

Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)

:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the "Edit" button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).

::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester

::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW

:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor

:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:

:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on "The Unit"). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.

:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like "not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle" instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked. That's definetly not a Jericho. I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model. Here's the image I got

[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

It is either a S&W 4006 or S&W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a bit late to the party but that looks like a S&W 645 to me because of the exposed screws. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

It's great to know I'm not seeing things :) I've always thought that gun was either a 645 or an earlier (I think) version of the 659 with small iron sights. But I just kind of deferred to all the other guys' experience on this one and kept quiet. - [[User:TrueBeliever19|TrueBeliever19]]

== Fiona's assault rifle ==

I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).

It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?

they assault rifle Fiona got from Seymour (arms dealer) was an M4A1 carbine with what appeared to be an Ampoint (possibly ACOG) anpeq-2 and some type of verticle grip. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:20, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sam's Rifle ==
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona. Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing. It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR. I don't think it's an SR-25. They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone is dissing Bruce Campbell firing the MP5 PDW without using the sights. I just saw a show on Discovery channel about the Iran hostage crisis and it interviewed two former SAS operatives. Its standard for them to point shoot small arms with intense practice and instinct in close quarters. Afterall Sam is a former SEAL. --~~

==Mark 23==
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!

==sig 226==

i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,

==Errors==
2 Errors of note: The Steyr is a Remington 700. The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present. It's not a ProHunter either.

The Winchester 1300's aren't either. Note the lack of v-shaped reciever. They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.

I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]

==Accuracy International==

During the episode "Double Booked" Michael apparently assembles an "AI AWC" but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.

== Desert Eagle ==

Added Desert Eagle to handgun list. Season 3 Episode 4 "Fearless Leader". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010
(UTC)

== Beretta Tomcat==

In Season 3 Episode 8 "Friends Like These". Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.
==SIG not Glock==
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered SIG.]]
This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?
This gun is a SIG non-gun. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:04, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a P226

==HK USP compact 45==
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.

on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45

==Fiona's M1==
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''
 

:''The "Family Business" M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in "Turn and Burn."

==Fiona's rifle==
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?

I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle

I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&catalog_=B

::You are right. Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==S3Ep13==
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==

Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

== Great show ==
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, right on. "Honey! I got you a S&W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!" --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

ha ha that funny . but id rather hang with michael . i like him . maybe pick up a few things . fight moves , learn to speak russian , and some super cool
spy stuff. im happy its on tonight. simmons 8492

== CZ 75BD ==

In season 3 episode 6 "the hunter" Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

==BNS4==
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

damn right brother , i love this show so much . simmons 8492

==Khan's Gun==

what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp

[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px ]]

That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&W. [[Spades of Columbia]]

: Nope. [[Smith & Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]

==What are these==

these guns look really dressed up

[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors

-Double Agent M

Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes

- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.

[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode? It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]

Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]

[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?

looks like a non gun

Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.

Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.

It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911). And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now. Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Original CZ 75... ==

In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]

I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.

[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==S04E06==

Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :<.

==S04E09==
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&K P30 on Michael

== Breaking Up By Season? ==

The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season. The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season. Thoughts? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe

== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the "laser targeting assist" she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==Remington 870==

wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the "water shell" is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the "water round." No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
::They look like nickel plated Winchester 1300 defenders with pistol grips and standard mag tubes. And I don't think they're airsoft, if you look down the barrel of one of them in the case, you see residue from firing blanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:: Winchester 1300 Defs? Bah, why didn't I think of that? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::- Not a 1300 either. 1300s have a single pin, and the safety button would be visible as would the slide release. And the "residue" could be just about anything, and I think its more likely to be from lighting. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 21:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

==Robert Patrick==

Robert Patrick uses the USP with the silver slide in the most recent episode. -- [[User:K|K]] 12:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==Jessie's Rifle==

Anyone know what Jessie was using when he "shot" Micheal in the finale? --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

It's listed on here as a Colt Model 933 but I don't think it is. If you look at the rail and the front sights it looks like a HK416 to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:02, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

== Not a Remington 700? ==

Is this not a Remington 700? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:BNassassinRifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Evelyn the assassin ([[Lucy Lawless]]) adjusts the scope on her Remington.]]
[[Image:BNassassinRifle2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A view of the other end of the Remington: the end you would rather be behind.]]
I don't think this is correct, at least based on the picture of the 700PSS provided. Look at the bolt handle, not what on a factory Remington 700. And the stock is too glossy and smooth looking to be a tactical rifle

== H&K P30 or HK45? I think this gun is misidentified. ==

This looks more like a Heckler and Koch P30 than an HK45. They are very similar looking except the external safety on the HK45, the bottom of the magazine is different, and the HK45 is larger.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/4/41/BurnS4_309.jpg/500px-BurnS4_309.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/c/c8/HH45.jpg/400px-HH45.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/12/HK-P30.jpg/350px-HK-P30.jpg

(I tried to post the pictures but couldn't get it to work). Notice the difference in the bottom of the magazine. The HK45 is also a full-size, the P30 is a compact. Notice the slight difference in the length of the slide. The gun in his hand looks more like a compact, and the slide looks shorter than the HK45. I'm new, so I'm not going to change anything myself. Just a suggestion.

SnakeDoc

Its definately A P30.. you can tell by the trigger guard

== New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? ==

The attached picture from Burn Notice may show Weston carrying an HK P30 9mm. (Again, I can't figure how to embed the picture).

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/113/1135169/burn-notice-20101117073255292_640w.jpg

It is a publicity still from the latest episode (aired in late November). If I recall the episode correctly, he drew the gun on his own (didn't recover it from someone else) and used it to shoot a fake chemical weapon cannister filled with tear gas and pesticide.
It looks like an H&K to me ... too small to be an HK45, not square enough to be a USP Compact. I'm pretty sure it isn't Weston's usual Sig, though I am unsure if it represents a permanent change in sidearm of choice.

Hope not, SIG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HK, like is way better.

Its definatetly a P30. Personally i think a new gun would be good the P228 is outdated and is used by everybody in most T.V shows so a new gun like the P30 would be good.. OR stay with Sig and get the P229 E2

honestiy , i like the P228 with him . its been with him since the pilot so i say , if it aint broke dont fix it simmons 8492

Its his signature weapon, seriously signature weapons cant be changed.

:Yep, it's official: Michael Weston has switched to the H&K P30 as his new sidearm. I was a bit disappointed, as I hoped he would just get a newer SIG (i.e. the P229R, SP2022, or P250), but P30 it is. I figured it was inevitable at some point he was gonna switch sidearms. Actually, I'm surprised he had the 228 for as long as he did, considering the assortment of new(er) pistols that have been used by other characters on the show (like the Walther PPS, FN Five-Seven USG, and Springfield XD, among others). I would have figured it's a rule in Hollywood that the protagonist always has to have the best gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

XD was only briefly shown in one episode, I believe 5-7 was too. Look at Sam, conealing a beretta the whole series, Fiona likes her ppk and michael had a SIG. Now I have to see a HK.......Sigh. A PPS may be a better choice for a new gun for Fiona. And the 92 is a beast, maybe something SIG sized for Sam would be appropriate, hes also a former seal so it would make sense.

: Signature weapons can change occasionally. Jack Bauer switched from a Sig to an H&K USP Compact between Seasons 2 and 3 of 24 (he used the USPc for the remaining seasons). I don't mind the change. I actually like the P30 quite a bit personally, so its good to see it getting a bit more publicity. -- SnakeDoc

I hate HK, I mean, a rail that only takes their special accessories, instead of a standard rail everybody else uses, since there you know, too good for a streamlight or what not, and they got a mag release on the trigger guard instead of the grip. The sig is compact, accurate, reliable, and has the ergos right.

-k9870

: The P30 has a standard rail.

-looks like the 228 is back in the finale ;)

Agreed the Sig is back for the finale show down... I agree i'd love to see him make the practical and logical step to a Sig P229R DAK... because in a adreneline situation who wants to remember long pull short pull---ST0NEFIELD

::Me.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:26, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

-Can we get some pictures of him using a P30 because I can't find any

:Who keeps deleting the line about Michael Westen changing his sidearm to a P30? I added it once, it got deleted, I added it again, and it is deleted again. I am going to add it again (along with some pics), and I ask that whoever keeps deleting it stops. Thanks.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:05, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

He has reverted back to the HK P30 as of the first episode of the fifth season.

Did any other Sig-Sauer fans feel a little sad that Michael Weston left us for HK? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 13:57, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Yes, me! I was not happy at all. The P228 seemed to fit him so perfectly. I'm not a fan of HKs overpriced stuff. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:44, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Don't get me wrong, the P30 feels GREAT in the hand, but its too damn expensive. Same with the USP, feels okay, but is way too overpriced. SIG-Sauer is still expensive, but you get what you pay for. BTW, if you didn't know I am a DIE-HARD SIG-Sauer fan (except for the new E2 or whatever, hate that) and I wish they would have given him a P229R or even a SIG-Pro, idc which model of SIG-Pro. Both in DA/SA of course. I could rant on SOOO much longer, but I have to stop myself.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:54, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Isn't the E2 now pretty much what the standard for what a P226 looks like now?--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 03:25, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yes, and it makes me SOOOO mad that they didn't at least keep the standard grips availiable for people that prefer them. Plus, they changed the slide of the P229 to where it looks just like a P228R.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:03, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

It's only like when they made all of the pistols with a rail. I hate the railed frame it looks so ugly. I'd prefer them to offer at least a "classic" version with original grips and no rail. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:14, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:I like both frames, and I think they should have kept all three as an option. You could choose unrailed or railed, then choose the grips (classic P226, newer style, or E2).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:08, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

Sounds good. Let's contact SIG Sauer with our idea lol. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:36, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

I thought it was a nice change to see him with a new sidearm. Its like when they changed weapons in Stargate from the MP5 to the P90

Finally the SIG has been completely phased out in Season 5 Episode 5 'Square One'. Fiona melts it with thermite(?). --[[User:Devang.home47|Devang.home47]] 21:53, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol in S04E15 "Brotherly Love" ==

Did anybody notice the gun that Michael gave to Sam in the loft, the one that he said that Fiona had modified to fire 3-round bursts? It only showed it for a second, so I didn't get a good lock at it, and I was just wondering if anybody here did and recognized it --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

HK VP70, I think. He probably meant Fiona altered it to fire burst without the stock attached.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 07:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that does indeed look like what I saw. Never even heard of that pistol before, and I consider myself somewhat of a gun nut, so it's cool to learn about a new gun. It's kind of neat how they build the selector switch into the stock mount. Thanks for the info! --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

Do you think there is any reason they chose to modify a VP70 rather than just use a 93R or G18? It just seemed odd to me that they used a relatively obscure pistol for this role. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:26, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:VP70 is hardly obscure, role in Aliens + first polymer handgun evar. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

::But it was best known for its role as Leon S. Kennedy's sidearm in Resident Evil 2. Thanks in no small part that it was called by its real name, aww, the good old days. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:47, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

:::I suppose you are right, it isn't that obscure to those that frequent this website. It is one of the things that makes me love this show so much; their accuracy, attention to detail and choice of equipment make it a different cut to most junk on TV these days. It is still a bit of a surprise that they chose to modify, unless this is a wink to Fi's associates and maybe Seymore, the arms dealer? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 17:31, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

== Mike's Holster ==

Anyone have any clue what holster Mike uses? You don't get a lot of good looks at it, but you get a fairly good one in Season 1's 'Unpaid Debts', when he's walking away from the screen after they kidnap the brother of the pimp. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:32, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

It changes. Ive seen an iwb, a Small of back serpa, mexican carry, etc.

==Jesse's Rifle==

Okay, dont attack me for this but i think in season 4's guilty as charged Jesse is using a HK416. Look at the gas black, Hk front sight and the lower side rails. With all the othe Hk love in series 4 it wouldnt be too abnormal to have a 416 turn up --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 14:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

How does one go about submitting alterations? In the Episode "Good Soldier" (S2E9) a pistol is listed here as being a S&W 459. I looked a the episode on DVD and it looks like a Kimber SIS. The forward and rear slide serrations are very distinctive.

==639==

Seth Peterson uses a 639 as opposed to a 4006. The front sight is fixed and the trigger guard is round without serrations, features of a second generation, and it also has a single stack frame.

==Beretta Cougar?==

I just noticed this in 3x13 Partners in Crime. It's the gun Michael hands Nate when he asks to keep an eye on mom though it doesn't get used in the episode. Initially I thought it was a Px4, but after brightening it looks like a Beretta Cougar.

Picture (brightened for clarity):

[[File:Burnnoticecoug.jpg]]

- IGemini - 18:40, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Yep, It's a Beretta Cougar. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:16, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

== The Fall of Sam Axe? ==

So, as to the new 'movie', are we making a separate page for it, or are we just adding it all to this one? Personally, I think we should make a new page, since this one is getting kinda long. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:53, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

Yes, since it is a separate movie, it will get a separate page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:05, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
:Okay. It's up on Hulu currently, if anyone wants to start getting screenshots. I'll go back and compile a list of weapons in a while. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:03, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
== MP5 (S4 Finale) ==
I am not entirely sure, but I believe that the MP5s used by Vaughn's men in the Season 4 finale (Last Stand) are of the A5 variant, based on the 3-position; collapsible stock, and the HK "3 round burst" trigger group. This can be clearly seen when Michael, Fiona, and Jesse are at the elevator shaft, talking with Vaughn; Michael's MP5 is slung, with a somewhat clear shot of the fire selector. I can upload a screenshot if necessary. --[[User:Progamer7100|Progamer7100]] 11:23, 8 May 2011 (CDT)

==Season 5==
Just watched the seasons premiere, no new guns to report all have previously been covered on the page. Wondering if the new series Suits on the same network contains any guns and deserves a page. I'm gonna watch it asap anyways (: [[User:Noe|Noe]] 15:35, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

== Spoilers: The murder weapon in Season Five ==

I'll try not to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen the newest episodes, but I'd like to ask something, since I'm not extremely familiar with SIG pistols, or atleast, I'm not too good at identifying them when I only get a quick look at them. Still, in one of the recent episodes, Mike heads to the CIA headquarters for a debriefing, and finds '''Spoilers!''' his contact, dead on the floor with a SIG pistol beside him. Mike melts this gun down using thermite in the next episode. Now, like I said, I'm not too good at identifying SIG pistols, but to me, it looks like a P226 or possibly a P220. Can anyone verify this and possibly grab a decent screencap? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 11:58, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

:It was a P226. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 12:22, 26 July 2011 (CDT)

Talk:G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra

2011-07-26T18:31:16Z

Rebusdi: /* Optics On F2000 */ new section

Talk:Burn Notice

2011-07-23T12:26:28Z

Rebusdi:

==Lol Wut?==
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: "I know that in the new Burn Notice episode "Question & Answer," a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is "Double Down" look it up." Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.

Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)

:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the "Edit" button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).

::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester

::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW

:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor

:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:

:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on "The Unit"). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.

:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like "not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle" instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked. That's definetly not a Jericho. I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model. Here's the image I got

[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

It is either a S&W 4006 or S&W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a bit late to the party but that looks like a S&W 645 to me because of the exposed screws. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

It's great to know I'm not seeing things :) I've always thought that gun was either a 645 or an earlier (I think) version of the 659 with small iron sights. But I just kind of deferred to all the other guys' experience on this one and kept quiet. - [[User:TrueBeliever19|TrueBeliever19]]

== Fiona's assault rifle ==

I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).

It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?

they assault rifle Fiona got from Seymour (arms dealer) was an M4A1 carbine with what appeared to be an Ampoint (possibly ACOG) anpeq-2 and some type of verticle grip. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:20, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sam's Rifle ==
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona. Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing. It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR. I don't think it's an SR-25. They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone is dissing Bruce Campbell firing the MP5 PDW without using the sights. I just saw a show on Discovery channel about the Iran hostage crisis and it interviewed two former SAS operatives. Its standard for them to point shoot small arms with intense practice and instinct in close quarters. Afterall Sam is a former SEAL. --~~

==Mark 23==
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!

==sig 226==

i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,

==Errors==
2 Errors of note: The Steyr is a Remington 700. The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present. It's not a ProHunter either.

The Winchester 1300's aren't either. Note the lack of v-shaped reciever. They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.

I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]

==Accuracy International==

During the episode "Double Booked" Michael apparently assembles an "AI AWC" but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.

== Desert Eagle ==

Added Desert Eagle to handgun list. Season 3 Episode 4 "Fearless Leader". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010
(UTC)

== Beretta Tomcat==

In Season 3 Episode 8 "Friends Like These". Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.
==SIG not Glock==
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered SIG.]]
This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?
This gun is a SIG non-gun. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:04, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a P226

==HK USP compact 45==
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.

on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45

==Fiona's M1==
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''
 

:''The "Family Business" M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in "Turn and Burn."

==Fiona's rifle==
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?

I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle

I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&catalog_=B

::You are right. Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==S3Ep13==
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==

Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

== Great show ==
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, right on. "Honey! I got you a S&W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!" --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

ha ha that funny . but id rather hang with michael . i like him . maybe pick up a few things . fight moves , learn to speak russian , and some super cool
spy stuff. im happy its on tonight. simmons 8492

== CZ 75BD ==

In season 3 episode 6 "the hunter" Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

==BNS4==
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

damn right brother , i love this show so much . simmons 8492

==Khan's Gun==

what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp

[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px ]]

That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&W. [[Spades of Columbia]]

: Nope. [[Smith & Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]

==What are these==

these guns look really dressed up

[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors

-Double Agent M

Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes

- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.

[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode? It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]

Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]

[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?

looks like a non gun

Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.

Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.

It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911). And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now. Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Original CZ 75... ==

In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]

I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.

[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==S04E06==

Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :<.

==S04E09==
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&K P30 on Michael

== Breaking Up By Season? ==

The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season. The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season. Thoughts? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe

== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the "laser targeting assist" she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==Remington 870==

wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the "water shell" is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the "water round." No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
::They look like nickel plated Winchester 1300 defenders with pistol grips and standard mag tubes. And I don't think they're airsoft, if you look down the barrel of one of them in the case, you see residue from firing blanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:: Winchester 1300 Defs? Bah, why didn't I think of that? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::- Not a 1300 either. 1300s have a single pin, and the safety button would be visible as would the slide release. And the "residue" could be just about anything, and I think its more likely to be from lighting. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 21:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

==Robert Patrick==

Robert Patrick uses the USP with the silver slide in the most recent episode. -- [[User:K|K]] 12:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==Jessie's Rifle==

Anyone know what Jessie was using when he "shot" Micheal in the finale? --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

It's listed on here as a Colt Model 933 but I don't think it is. If you look at the rail and the front sights it looks like a HK416 to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:02, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

== Not a Remington 700? ==

Is this not a Remington 700? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:BNassassinRifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Evelyn the assassin ([[Lucy Lawless]]) adjusts the scope on her Remington.]]
[[Image:BNassassinRifle2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A view of the other end of the Remington: the end you would rather be behind.]]
I don't think this is correct, at least based on the picture of the 700PSS provided. Look at the bolt handle, not what on a factory Remington 700. And the stock is too glossy and smooth looking to be a tactical rifle

== H&K P30 or HK45? I think this gun is misidentified. ==

This looks more like a Heckler and Koch P30 than an HK45. They are very similar looking except the external safety on the HK45, the bottom of the magazine is different, and the HK45 is larger.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/4/41/BurnS4_309.jpg/500px-BurnS4_309.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/c/c8/HH45.jpg/400px-HH45.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/12/HK-P30.jpg/350px-HK-P30.jpg

(I tried to post the pictures but couldn't get it to work). Notice the difference in the bottom of the magazine. The HK45 is also a full-size, the P30 is a compact. Notice the slight difference in the length of the slide. The gun in his hand looks more like a compact, and the slide looks shorter than the HK45. I'm new, so I'm not going to change anything myself. Just a suggestion.

SnakeDoc

Its definately A P30.. you can tell by the trigger guard

== New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? ==

The attached picture from Burn Notice may show Weston carrying an HK P30 9mm. (Again, I can't figure how to embed the picture).

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/113/1135169/burn-notice-20101117073255292_640w.jpg

It is a publicity still from the latest episode (aired in late November). If I recall the episode correctly, he drew the gun on his own (didn't recover it from someone else) and used it to shoot a fake chemical weapon cannister filled with tear gas and pesticide.
It looks like an H&K to me ... too small to be an HK45, not square enough to be a USP Compact. I'm pretty sure it isn't Weston's usual Sig, though I am unsure if it represents a permanent change in sidearm of choice.

Hope not, SIG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HK, like is way better.

Its definatetly a P30. Personally i think a new gun would be good the P228 is outdated and is used by everybody in most T.V shows so a new gun like the P30 would be good.. OR stay with Sig and get the P229 E2

honestiy , i like the P228 with him . its been with him since the pilot so i say , if it aint broke dont fix it simmons 8492

Its his signature weapon, seriously signature weapons cant be changed.

:Yep, it's official: Michael Weston has switched to the H&K P30 as his new sidearm. I was a bit disappointed, as I hoped he would just get a newer SIG (i.e. the P229R, SP2022, or P250), but P30 it is. I figured it was inevitable at some point he was gonna switch sidearms. Actually, I'm surprised he had the 228 for as long as he did, considering the assortment of new(er) pistols that have been used by other characters on the show (like the Walther PPS, FN Five-Seven USG, and Springfield XD, among others). I would have figured it's a rule in Hollywood that the protagonist always has to have the best gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

XD was only briefly shown in one episode, I believe 5-7 was too. Look at Sam, conealing a beretta the whole series, Fiona likes her ppk and michael had a SIG. Now I have to see a HK.......Sigh. A PPS may be a better choice for a new gun for Fiona. And the 92 is a beast, maybe something SIG sized for Sam would be appropriate, hes also a former seal so it would make sense.

: Signature weapons can change occasionally. Jack Bauer switched from a Sig to an H&K USP Compact between Seasons 2 and 3 of 24 (he used the USPc for the remaining seasons). I don't mind the change. I actually like the P30 quite a bit personally, so its good to see it getting a bit more publicity. -- SnakeDoc

I hate HK, I mean, a rail that only takes their special accessories, instead of a standard rail everybody else uses, since there you know, too good for a streamlight or what not, and they got a mag release on the trigger guard instead of the grip. The sig is compact, accurate, reliable, and has the ergos right.

-k9870

: The P30 has a standard rail.

-looks like the 228 is back in the finale ;)

Agreed the Sig is back for the finale show down... I agree i'd love to see him make the practical and logical step to a Sig P229R DAK... because in a adreneline situation who wants to remember long pull short pull---ST0NEFIELD

::Me.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:26, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

-Can we get some pictures of him using a P30 because I can't find any

:Who keeps deleting the line about Michael Westen changing his sidearm to a P30? I added it once, it got deleted, I added it again, and it is deleted again. I am going to add it again (along with some pics), and I ask that whoever keeps deleting it stops. Thanks.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:05, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

He has reverted back to the HK P30 as of the first episode of the fifth season.

Did any other Sig-Sauer fans feel a little sad that Michael Weston left us for HK? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 13:57, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Yes, me! I was not happy at all. The P228 seemed to fit him so perfectly. I'm not a fan of HKs overpriced stuff. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:44, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Don't get me wrong, the P30 feels GREAT in the hand, but its too damn expensive. Same with the USP, feels okay, but is way too overpriced. SIG-Sauer is still expensive, but you get what you pay for. BTW, if you didn't know I am a DIE-HARD SIG-Sauer fan (except for the new E2 or whatever, hate that) and I wish they would have given him a P229R or even a SIG-Pro, idc which model of SIG-Pro. Both in DA/SA of course. I could rant on SOOO much longer, but I have to stop myself.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 19:54, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Isn't the E2 now pretty much what the standard for what a P226 looks like now?--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 03:25, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yes, and it makes me SOOOO mad that they didn't at least keep the standard grips availiable for people that prefer them. Plus, they changed the slide of the P229 to where it looks just like a P228R.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:03, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

It's only like when they made all of the pistols with a rail. I hate the railed frame it looks so ugly. I'd prefer them to offer at least a "classic" version with original grips and no rail. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 14:14, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

:I like both frames, and I think they should have kept all three as an option. You could choose unrailed or railed, then choose the grips (classic P226, newer style, or E2).--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 11:08, 13 July 2011 (CDT)

Sounds good. Let's contact SIG Sauer with our idea lol. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:36, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

I thought it was a nice change to see him with a new sidearm. Its like when they changed weapons in Stargate from the MP5 to the P90

== Pistol in S04E15 "Brotherly Love" ==

Did anybody notice the gun that Michael gave to Sam in the loft, the one that he said that Fiona had modified to fire 3-round bursts? It only showed it for a second, so I didn't get a good lock at it, and I was just wondering if anybody here did and recognized it --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

HK VP70, I think. He probably meant Fiona altered it to fire burst without the stock attached.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 07:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that does indeed look like what I saw. Never even heard of that pistol before, and I consider myself somewhat of a gun nut, so it's cool to learn about a new gun. It's kind of neat how they build the selector switch into the stock mount. Thanks for the info! --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

Do you think there is any reason they chose to modify a VP70 rather than just use a 93R or G18? It just seemed odd to me that they used a relatively obscure pistol for this role. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:26, 23 July 2011 (CDT)

== Mike's Holster ==

Anyone have any clue what holster Mike uses? You don't get a lot of good looks at it, but you get a fairly good one in Season 1's 'Unpaid Debts', when he's walking away from the screen after they kidnap the brother of the pimp. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:32, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

It changes. Ive seen an iwb, a Small of back serpa, mexican carry, etc.

==Jesse's Rifle==

Okay, dont attack me for this but i think in season 4's guilty as charged Jesse is using a HK416. Look at the gas black, Hk front sight and the lower side rails. With all the othe Hk love in series 4 it wouldnt be too abnormal to have a 416 turn up --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 14:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

How does one go about submitting alterations? In the Episode "Good Soldier" (S2E9) a pistol is listed here as being a S&W 459. I looked a the episode on DVD and it looks like a Kimber SIS. The forward and rear slide serrations are very distinctive.

==639==

Seth Peterson uses a 639 as opposed to a 4006. The front sight is fixed and the trigger guard is round without serrations, features of a second generation, and it also has a single stack frame.

==Beretta Cougar?==

I just noticed this in 3x13 Partners in Crime. It's the gun Michael hands Nate when he asks to keep an eye on mom though it doesn't get used in the episode. Initially I thought it was a Px4, but after brightening it looks like a Beretta Cougar.

Picture (brightened for clarity):

[[File:Burnnoticecoug.jpg]]

- IGemini - 18:40, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Yep, It's a Beretta Cougar. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:16, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

== The Fall of Sam Axe? ==

So, as to the new 'movie', are we making a separate page for it, or are we just adding it all to this one? Personally, I think we should make a new page, since this one is getting kinda long. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:53, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

Yes, since it is a separate movie, it will get a separate page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:05, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
:Okay. It's up on Hulu currently, if anyone wants to start getting screenshots. I'll go back and compile a list of weapons in a while. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:03, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
== MP5 (S4 Finale) ==
I am not entirely sure, but I believe that the MP5s used by Vaughn's men in the Season 4 finale (Last Stand) are of the A5 variant, based on the 3-position; collapsible stock, and the HK "3 round burst" trigger group. This can be clearly seen when Michael, Fiona, and Jesse are at the elevator shaft, talking with Vaughn; Michael's MP5 is slung, with a somewhat clear shot of the fire selector. I can upload a screenshot if necessary. --[[User:Progamer7100|Progamer7100]] 11:23, 8 May 2011 (CDT)

==Season 5==
Just watched the seasons premiere, no new guns to report all have previously been covered on the page. Wondering if the new series Suits on the same network contains any guns and deserves a page. I'm gonna watch it asap anyways (: [[User:Noe|Noe]] 15:35, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2011-07-12T12:27:24Z

Rebusdi: /* Question about the buffer tube */ new section

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in ''[[Uncommon Valor]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film ''[[Scarface]]''. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A1 with 20-round magazine, fitted with scope - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mockcommando.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:GUU-5P.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GUU-5/P - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Colt Law Enforcement Model 6920 Carbine..jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Law Enforcement Carbine with ACOG scope and PentagonLight MD3R weaponlight, screen-used weapon from ''[[I Am Legend]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M148.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm with a mounted [[XM148 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:K3B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Olympic Arms K3B carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A3 Carbine with EOTech red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A4M203ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 rifle - 5.56x45mm with ACOG scope and M203 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:CAXM177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Classic Army XM177 airsoft replica rifle - 5.56x45mm (of the type used by SF troops in some scenes of the movie ''[[Green Zone]]'').]]
[[Image:Cam15a4tacticalcarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Classic Army M15A4 airsoft carbine rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
this is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:M653M203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 653 5.56x45mm with magazine removed and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

An airsoft gun and a cap gun aren't the same thing. LOL [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:43, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Caddilac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

So why not update this page to include current issue M16A4 rifles?
(unless you don't know what they are....)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16 series are the ONLY assault rifles (except the [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:g41-series&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&Itemid=5/ HK G41], which is made to be like the M16 and is no longer produced) in the world to have a forward assist. Why don't other assault rifles have a forward assist? (ie. the AK-74, G36 etc.) Because other assault rifles are more reliable and don't need it. :)
::Uh more associated with the design of the Bolt than being more reliable. The AK series have a bolt handle attached DIRECTLY to the bolt carrier as do many other designs. If there is debris or fouling in the chamber which keeps a round from seating properly you can just jam the handle forward (I've done this in the field when my AK / Garand / Galil / M 14 / etc jammed) I once had a tiny piece of bark (I was firing under trees) which fell from above and fell into the ejection port and made the round 'stick' really badly in the chamber so that it would not seat properly. The M16 design has no way other than the forward assist to nudge the bolt & carrier forward enough to fire and kick that crap free of the action. But I wouldn't bash the M16 as an "unreliable" rifle. I'd sure take it into battle right now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright, I understand. thanks for the extra info. I'm not saying the M16/M4 is a complete piece of crap, but it's definitely not the BEST ASSAULT RIFLE IN THE WORLD! like we Americans like to state all the time (*rolls eyes*). You and me both know the M16/M4 is no where as reliable as the G36 or the AK series. But at least it's better than the L85 series, now that's a piece crap rifle. :D *Edit: Well at least the L85A1, the L85A2 is OK. kinda like the M16/M16A1s sucks but the M16A2/A4s are good.

::::I have to completely disagree with what you say, i don't wish to come off as passive aggresive but you sound like a mall ninja that learned their weapons knowledge from seeing them perform in videogames or hearing public opinions on weapons from the news or other sources. The M16 family of rifles are both fine and fairly reliable weapons, while much of that view has been skewed by the fact they were portrayed as unreliable during conflicts such as Vietnam, is incorrect to a degree. The M16 is a reliable and capable weapon when cleaned and properly maintained, it simply lacks the ability to stay so when not properly serviced, as some other rifles such as the AKM can function fine without cleaning, the M16 can not. As for your comment on the L85 series, yes they were somewhat poor and unreliable weapons at first, coupled with poor grips and clumsy to handle for certain users, however the newer models have made large improvements and are very capable firearms. As i feel it needs to be said (or typed) a common mistake people make is assuming that militaries have access and funding to field their troops with the best weapons available, which is not always the case as most countries don't have the money to field an Army with rifles that can cost up to $5000-10000 per unit. Which is where the workhorses like M16's come in, you go for the "good" rifle not the "great" one. Also, although off-topic it somewhat pertains to the M16, most mall ninja's assume the AK-family is better because it is more reliable and fires a heavier cartridge, I've always asked "would you want a round that's going to pierce right through an enemy and leave an easy to treat wound, or have a round that hits an enemy and fragments inside them causing an ungodly bloody mess?" Hopefully esteemed imfdb members such as MPM2008 will agree with and share my viewpoint concerning this subject, as well as not condemn me for my long comment. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 13:24, 06 March 2011 (UTC)

::::The issues of jamming during the Vietnam War had more to do with ammunition and the lack of a chrome-lined chamber and barrel than the rifle's so-called "dirty" gas system. In 1964 the Army switched from stick powder to ball powder, which increased the rate of fire to over 1,000 RPM and left a lot of dirty residue in the weapon. This was only exacerbated by the lack of cleaning kits and training on how to maintain the weapon. They fixed the issue by fitting the rifle with a buffer system (which slowed the ROF down) and chrome-plated chamber. Training programs in weapon maintenance were instituted and an instruction book on how to maintain the rifle was circulated among troops. After further modifications resulted in the M16A1, many of the reliability issues disappeared (although even today, the weapon has yet to shed its bad reputation). The M16A2, A3, A4, and M4 carbine of today are an entirely different breed of warrior than the prototypes that were issued back in the 60s. While it may admittedly be a bit finicky, the M16 today is a good weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah but it's still a very fussy weapon, it's not very durable, and it has much more malfunctions/jams then say the H&K G36, but none the less it's still a excellent weapons platform, mostly. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- No prob, dude - I'm just glad you got what I was gettin' at. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

i would be shocked if they couldnt pick their weapons. their the best soldiers on the planet. it just doesnt make sense not to be able to. it would be like giving a star baseball player a 10 dollar glove. itll do but why wouldnt they get the best thats out there. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Reg army units use the burst M4, not the full auto A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

== Colt Accurized Rifle ==

After seeing several pages of real firearms appearing in only one film or game, I was wondering if I should expand this page with a new section for the [http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp Colt Accurized Rifle], which to my knowledge has only ever appeared in [[S.W.A.T. 4]]. Before I do that, I need to confirm two things:

*Is the Colt Accurized Rifle indeed another variant on the M16 line of rifles, or a separate take on the AR-15 design altogether? I suppose there's a reason why we don't include the [[Z-M LR 300]] in the M16 page because it's the latter--I need to know if the Colt Accurized Rifle falls in that category.
*Including it on this page would make it the first Designated Marksman Rifle variant here. So far I only see assault rifles or carbines here. Would including a DMR in this page be a problem or not?

If there are no real problems, I'll make a new section for it, but I have no idea where I'll get a non-copyright infringment image of one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:It'd be the '''second''' DMR on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but can someone confirm that the Colt Accurized Rifle is indeed descended from the M16 line of assault rifles and not a separate take on the AR-15 design like the aforementioned LR-300 is? I still have no idea where I can get a photo of this DMR that respects copyright. All I have are game screenshots. Some help here, please? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Removeable Carry Handle for Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Does such a Gun exist?

:Not as a production gun (Colt's website makes no mention of one, anyway), but the modular nature of the AR system makes such a configuration entirely possible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==Why do we have a Colt AR-15 SP1 category that is separate from the M16/SP1 category?==
The guns look the same, sure the SP1 had a design change in 1978 (three prong flash hider was changed to birdcage, rear sling swivel was changed to A1 style and the color went from greenish grey to straight grey) but unless we see the stamp on the side that says "Property of U.S. Government" we can't tell if it's a real M16 (which WERE sold via Title II dealers to armories) and a Colt AR15 SP1 which was converted to full auto (which was done A LOT prior to 1986). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== About M4 Commando and M16A4 Full Auto ==

Full Auto M16A4 (Model 905) is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901]

[http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com_2.asp Model 933] ''is'' M4 Commando (Full Auto)

[http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp Manufacturer's site] says it all.

== Colt Model 653 barrel length ==

Am trying to pin down what a gun is for a page I'm working on. It has a forward assist but no deflector, A1 rear sight, M4 length tubular handguard, 16" barrel with birdcage flash hider and a solid stock. Basically it matches the gun in the picture for the Model 653 on the main page, apart from having a solid stock but that is easily changeable. However, every source I can find about the 653 says that it has a 14" barrel. Was the gun made in different barrel lengths but kept the same designation, and if not, anyone know what the gun is that is pictured as a 653? Also, while I'm on the topic of obscure colt carbines, does anyone know of a model that will match a 725 (original C8 without the flat-top) but has an A2 rear sight? Thanks, --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:16, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Can anyone figure out what this is? ==

I found this hidden in my computer, I think it's a Colt Canada C7A1 as a base, I can tell it's C7 because of the Canadian leaf on the the lower receiver, it would be an A1 because of the removable carrying-handle. What the heck is that hand-guard? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:02, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
[[Image:Colt Canada C7A1 SPW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C7A1 SPW?]]

::Colt Model 750/Diemaco C7 Light Support Weapon - A modified C7 with an enlarged gas tube (hence the square handguard) and a heavy barrel for sustained fire in the squad automatic weapon role. The C7 LSW is not used by the Canadian Forces but has seen service with the Dutch and Danish militaries. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:34, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
:::Ha! I thought so, thanks. :) Should I remove this section or keep it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

::That's not Colt LSW, that's [http://www.colt.com/mil/CAR.asp Colt Automatic Rifle]. Follow the link and you will see that the image is the larger version of the official one. Meanwhile, [http://www.coltcanada.com/lsw-page.htm Colt LSW] has optional folding carry handle. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:09, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
[[File:Lsw-annot.jpg]]
:::Thanks guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:02, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

::Just to clarify, the Colt automatic rifle, LSW and LMG are all the same weapon. The original version that looks like the one above was the Colt Model 750, which featured a fixed A2 carry handle and barrel mounted bi-pod, and the newer version above is the current production Model 950, with the relocated bi-pod and A4 rear sights. As you said, the folding carry handle is removeable, and the picture on the Colt website is just one without it fitted (note the longer centre vent on the top of the handguard is the mounting point for the handle). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:48, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
:::The original version was based on M16A1:

[[File:M16A1 CAR.jpg]]

:::The one you described was based on M16A2:

[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg]]

Guys, remember back in the 1980s when Colt was trying to vie for the SAW role? Sure the FN Minimi was never knocked off its perch, but Colt came out with a Colt light Machine gun that looked a lot like this. They were selling the barreled uppers on the market for a while in the early 1990s (I know a few friends who have them, but I never got one). This looks like that reincarnated!!! LOL![[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:24, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
:Well, that's all written on [http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/m16-lsw-lmg-e.html Modern Firearms] :P

::Ah yes, you only read about it monkeyboy ;) I was handling and firing that sucker! LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:11, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, and I've found articles of why AR is more advantageous than SAW to US Marine Corps:

:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-employment-concepts M249 Employment Concepts]
:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-light-machinegun-automatic-rifle-role The M249 Light Machinegun In The Automatic Rifle Role]

: Interesting reading, methinks :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 30 April 2011 (CDT)
::Yeah it was. :) You know, I kinda knew LMGs were dying out. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:07, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
::: Not overall, it's just the role they are being used in (automatic rifleman). SAW is still very good in defensive role and laying fire on attacking forces ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

== Heat Dissipation Performance of Carbine Barrel Types? ==

I was wondering, does anyone know what kind of effects the 'cuts' (originally meant for the mounting of the M203 grenade launcher) in the barrel of the M4 and similiarly-styled M16 & AR-15 series carbines has on the heat dissipation performance of the barrel? Do the cuts help the weapon release heat from prolonged firing better than a barrel that has a uniform thickness, or does it hamper that? Any input anyone can provide on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:46, 8 May 2011 (CDT)
:The step down for the grenade launcher is actually pretty negligible in terms of cooling (although it does create a point of weakness to bending), as what you can't see is the fact that as soon as the barrel goes under the handguard it is reduced down to the same narrow diameter as in the cut out, which creates a much bigger effect on cooling. The narrower profile sections have the effect of cooling down the barrel quicker, but they also conversely mean that the barrel heats up quicker, and the heat has a larger effect on the accuracy of the gun. The main advantage however is that it reduces the weight quite a bit. The original reason that the M4 barrel reduces in size behind the handguard is based on the M16A2, which does exactly the same thing where its heavy barrel is actually only thicker past the front sight. This was due to a cock up in the design, where they designed the gun with a full thickness straight barrel, and found that they could then no longer clamp the M203 to the barrel, so the barrels were simply turned down from behind the front sight post. The front of the barrel was left thick due to the fact that the thinner barrels on the M16A1 were being bent at the front from being used as pry-bars to get the loading bands off of shipping pallets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:There is a heavier "SOCOM-profile" barrel that maintains the same diameter beneath the handguards as the standard M4-profile barrel does around the M203 cut and it can mount the M203 just fine.[http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BCM-URG-M4-14SOCOM-2.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:40, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== can you tell me what model of m16/car 15 this is ==

sorry i do not have a pic but i can tell you what is like. me and my dad were talikng about some of the guns he used in the army and he was telling me about this one he said was like an carbine version of the m16a2 and it was like the m4 but had a fixed carring handle and it was used befor the m4 it had safe semi and burst and he said it just had ar15 on the side.-Steviebleckley

:Sounds like the first batch of M4s that were delivered. This is the Colt Model 777, which is basically an M4 with a fixed carry handle, and 3-round burst as opposed to full auto. It is the brother of and visually identical to the 727 mentioned on the main page, where the 727 as full auto as opposed to the burst. If it didn't have the M4 profile barrel though, god knows. Probably a model 654 on an M16 lower receiver or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:02, 13 June 2011 (CDT)

yes it had the same profile as the m4. i gess it was the 777.I will show him the pic of the the 727 since there the same well the 727 is full auto thanks for the info - Steviebleckley

== Question about the buffer tube ==

I'm not one hundred percent sure what it does, and (like the forward assist) that almost no other guns have it. If someone could just clarify, what does it do, why does this rifle series have it, and why don't others/what replaces the buffer tube in other rifles? Thank you in advance. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:27, 12 July 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Burn Notice

2011-07-11T18:57:19Z

Rebusdi: /* New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? */

==Lol Wut?==
Relocated this from the main page. It made even less sense before I cleaned up the spelling and grammar errors: "I know that in the new Burn Notice episode "Question & Answer," a thug uses a Colt Diamondback but I don't know how to add it. Will someone do it for me? It is "Double Down" look it up." Whatever, dood. --[[User:DOHC Holiday|DOHC Holiday]] 04:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Formatting==
This page's formatting was really atrocious, so I did quite a bit of editing. I really don't want to see that happen again, y'all.

Anyway, I have the Pilot episode of this show on my laptop now, so I will screencap it in the near future, and maybe buy some more episodes on iTunes for the other guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea...I'm doing some work too and your kinda screwing up my practice here. No hard feelings, but i got it and you take it from here. (The Winchester)

:Oh, OK. Well, this page's formatting has actually been pretty bad for a while now. Anyway, for practice, I would recommend hitting the "Edit" button on other people's pages to study how formatting was done. I'm also in the habit of recycling my own code when it comes to inserting gun entries on a page (i.e. if I see a movie with an MP5A3, the first thing I do is go to a movie page I know has MP5A3s in correct format, cut and paste all of the text for the gun entry, paste it in my page, and edit the text as necessary to conform to my new page).

::yea, i've been doing that, but i think i'm starting to get better at it. Thanks for the advice though. -Winchester

::Hey what was the revolver used by the security guy to kill Chandler in the latest episode? It looks like a Smith and Wesson Model 29 but I'm not sure. MW

:Well, i have the 1st season on dvd and i could do it in the future. i have a few movies that im still committed to, so it might be a while. [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

A molotov cocktail isn't a firearm, so I've removed it. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just finished watching the premier episode of Season 3 on USA and noted usage of an M4A1 and an M203 on the page. The 203 definitely wasn't a Cobray, but since it wasn't actually used, I figure it could most likely have been an airsoft version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

WOWWWEEEE. I just did a ton of work on this. I made a bunch of errors because it took me like four hours, but I think I fixed them all. I apologize for the relatively low quality of my screen caps, but they are DVR downloads from TV, and not very high quality TV. Does anybody have the HD version? Or the DVD? --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:One more thing, there is a sniper rifle used by Fiona in one episode, that I can not put my finger on. Here is the image.
[[Image:BNfionaRifle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Fiona shoots some dudes with some rifle.]]
--[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 00:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks to me like a Browning Automatic Rifle, that civilian one that's not actually the B.A.R.-protoAuthor

:I do in fact have HD versions of many episodes on my back-up external drive and have meaning to upload for a while, but right now, I'm juggling a whole bunch of different things (including IMFDB pages). At some point, I plan to do a huge re-vamp on this page (it was supposed to be BEFORE Season 3 started, but obviously, that didn't pan out for me). If you want a preview, take a look at some of the shots I've been meaning to upload but haven't gotten around to yet:

:[[Image:Vlcsnap-153758.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:[[Image:Vlcsnap-409605.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

:Also, a few other things: Please mention the episode beneath the screenshot, and name the characters/actors who use guns if you can. I use IMDB to make sure I have my info correct. For instance, the hijacker in Episode 2.07 (the guy with the nickel Jericho) is named Gerard and is played by [[Max Martini]] (same dude who's on "The Unit"). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

he played MSG. Mack Gerhardt in the Unit. he was also in season 2 or 3 of 24 (if sum1 has any screenshots, i believe he had a MP5.

:To whoever did the Steyr Scout, how'd you identify it as such, and the BAR maybe we should rephrase it to somethign like "not to be confused the the m1918 Browning Automatic Rifle" instead of calling it a civie version since they are two different firearms.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

:I'm beginning to think that the Steyr scout, isn't. The Barrel is not fluted and maybe a little thick, the bolt handle is different, and im doubting the reciever, and the stock is not a Steyr's. -[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I looked at it again, you're right. I mostly guessed on that anyway. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]] 06:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoever put the gun that Michael used in the pilot episode to get rid of the drug dealer as a Jericho/Baby Eagle needs to get their eyes checked. That's definetly not a Jericho. I want to say it's a smith and wesson but don't know which model. Here's the image I got

[[Image:Gun pilot.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]

It is either a S&W 4006 or S&W 5906 because it exhibits the double stack bulge. I'm leaning towards the 5906 because of the hooked trigger guard.[[Special:Contributions/96.32.185.136|96.32.185.136]] 22:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the ones that are under the Jericho section that are wrong. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a bit late to the party but that looks like a S&W 645 to me because of the exposed screws. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 12:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

It's great to know I'm not seeing things :) I've always thought that gun was either a 645 or an earlier (I think) version of the 659 with small iron sights. But I just kind of deferred to all the other guys' experience on this one and kept quiet. - [[User:TrueBeliever19|TrueBeliever19]]

== Fiona's assault rifle ==

I was looking for the model of Fiona's souped up assault rifle, that she stole from the gun-smuggler (after Michael poured gunpowder all over his face).

It can also be seen in Season 2 Ep 14 @ 40:00 - it kind of looks like an SG-500, but I don't think it is. Anyone got any ideas?

they assault rifle Fiona got from Seymour (arms dealer) was an M4A1 carbine with what appeared to be an Ampoint (possibly ACOG) anpeq-2 and some type of verticle grip. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 02:20, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

== Sam's Rifle ==
In the season 3 finale, Sam uses an assault rifle with a scope to get the kidnappers onto a boat and help free Fiona. Since Bruce Campbell is left handed, he covers up most of the rifle when he's shown firing. It looks like an AR derivative, either an M16A4 or SPR. I don't think it's an SR-25. They took the episode down from Hulu so I can't get a screenshot of it.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone is dissing Bruce Campbell firing the MP5 PDW without using the sights. I just saw a show on Discovery channel about the Iran hostage crisis and it interviewed two former SAS operatives. Its standard for them to point shoot small arms with intense practice and instinct in close quarters. Afterall Sam is a former SEAL. --~~

==Mark 23==
thanks for the compliment to whoever took the screencaps I posted on HKpro.com forums for the Mk23 sub heading. Cheers!

==sig 226==

i am pretty sure the black sig in the first picture being held by the michael character is a 228, the barrel looks short and in a later episode he mentions the 228, it seems to be his prefered weapon, and i'm not sure but i think the third one is as well,

==Errors==
2 Errors of note: The Steyr is a Remington 700. The stock isn't even close, the barrel doesn't have the twist and the scout rail isn't present. It's not a ProHunter either.

The Winchester 1300's aren't either. Note the lack of v-shaped reciever. They're Remington 870 Marine Magnum's.

I don't think they're even real. They look more like airsoft. The barrels don't seem to be connected to the magazine tube, there doesn't seem to be a safety or a pump release in the places you'd find them on a 1300 or 870. also we cannot see the ejection port which helps matters a great deal. I'm going to watch the episode again when i get home and look again. I also don't remembering them actually firing but there being an effect in its place.[I would ad my signature but I haven't been able to access my account as of late, Mercer]

==Accuracy International==

During the episode "Double Booked" Michael apparently assembles an "AI AWC" but it has a standard Remington 700 bolt handle (flat and knurled), I think it appears to be a Remington 700 with AICS which does have a folding option, anyone prove me wrong? Update: I changed the name to reflect what this is.

== Desert Eagle ==

Added Desert Eagle to handgun list. Season 3 Episode 4 "Fearless Leader". --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 17:44, 13 January 2010
(UTC)

== Beretta Tomcat==

In Season 3 Episode 8 "Friends Like These". Fiona uses a Beretta Tomcat on Natalie. Can anyone get a screenshot of this.
==SIG not Glock==
[[Image:BNglock19black.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Mike shoots at the hood of a car with another commandeered SIG.]]
This is not a Glock, look at the grip above Michael's hand. It's a Sig, though it looks too big for his 228. Maybe a 226?
This gun is a SIG non-gun. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:04, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a P226

==HK USP compact 45==
I deleted the bit about Fiona's walther ppk because it said that it was the gun Michael used to shoot Strickler. That is wrong Mike uses Fiona's HK USP compact and that is what she leaves at his house.

on the topic of HK USPs what kind is Seymour (arms dealer) seen using when he pulls it on Mike. the barrel looks to small to be a .45 but it appeared to be under HK USP .45

==Fiona's M1==
At the end of the episode when Sam is seen disposing of the weapons it is not a stretch to assume he kept some of them for their use, explaining where Fiona got the rifle.
''The M-1A is a Springfield Armory weapon designed for civilian use, because of this the rifle is much more likely to be the M-1A since it is a Civvie version. It is NOT an EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle)the barrel is too long to be the EBR, which was designed for DMR as well as CQB. It is more likely the EMR (Enhanced Marksman Rifle) which has a longer barrel.''
 

:''The "Family Business" M-1A appears to be a SOPMOD conversion (note the slightly different stock and a lack of a front iron sight) instead of the EMR/EBR Fiona uses in "Turn and Burn."

==Fiona's rifle==
What is the rifle Fiona uses to shoot Carla with?

I think it's the BAR she used earlier in the series.
[[Image:BurnS2 2063.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Doesn't BAR stand for : Browning AUTOMATIC Rifle? The rifle in the image clearly has a bolt handle. Rob the Fiend
it's a different BAR. Not the ww2 rifle

I know it's not the WW2 rifle, read this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B&catalog_=B

::You are right. Definitely NOT the BAR Safari, being that rifle is a semiautomatic and she does have a bolt action visible in the pic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==S3Ep13==
This is probably the best yet! Man Burn Notice is awesome. --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

== AWM Season 3 Episode 11 ==

Toward the end Fiona pulls out what I believe is an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

== Great show ==
I love this show. And Fiona is my ultimate dream girl. A knockout who you can take to the gunstore and range! But I wouldn't be able to use the old excuse of buying her a particular firearm knowing that she would never use it and I would. Not only would she use it she's probably break your arm if you tried to take it! What a woman.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, right on. "Honey! I got you a S&W in .44! The recoil might be a bit much for you though, I'll just use it inste-*CRACK* AUUUUGHHGGGG!" --[[User:ManiacallyChallenged|ManiacallyChallenged]]

ha ha that funny . but id rather hang with michael . i like him . maybe pick up a few things . fight moves , learn to speak russian , and some super cool
spy stuff. im happy its on tonight. simmons 8492

== CZ 75BD ==

In season 3 episode 6 "the hunter" Michael and his new friend John Beck use a CZ 75BD pistol.
[[Image:Bn1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]] [[Image:Bn3.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

==BNS4==
Damn I love this show. Season 4 started out with a BANG!!!!! [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

damn right brother , i love this show so much . simmons 8492

==Khan's Gun==

what was kahn using in s4e2? im thinking fn fnp

[[ Image:Screencap.jpg|thumb|none|400px ]]

That would be a Walther p99AS in what could be a 9mm or a 40S&W. [[Spades of Columbia]]

: Nope. [[Smith & Wesson SW99]], with a titanium or hard-chromed slide. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

you are absolutely correct on that Sir, tip of the hat to ya, good eye on the front slide surrations. [[Spades of Columbia]]

==What are these==

these guns look really dressed up

[[ Image:Bns4.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

Heckler and Koch SL8 with suppressors

-Double Agent M

Whats with the bent up areas under the scopes

- Just a somewhat unconventional frame design.

[[Image:HK-SL8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch SL8 target match with 10 round magazine - 5.56x45mm.]]

[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

So...what was the Gun that Josh pulled on the crooked invester in the most recent episode? It was Sam's buddy that Michael dissarmed at one point.[[Spades of Columbia]]

Screenies [[Image:IMFDB1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Resized the screenies..]]

[[Image:IMFDB2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

I'm thinking a shiny Sig sauer p22xr?

looks like a non gun

Wow, fricking huge screens. It is neither a SIG or a non gun, but a Taurus PT940. Probably the same one used in the other bank episode.

Sorry for the huge screenies. From what i can see on taurus website they dont make the pt940 stainless with rail. Sure it could be aftermarket or the black could have been removed. But still the pt940 with rail has 2 notches in the rail and from what i can tell this gun dosnt. I am no taurus fan neither a taurus knower on the other hand.

It could be the 9mm version of the PT940. I think it is called the model 911 maybe? I know that the Taurus 9mm version comes with rails. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 12:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:It's a PT911 or 940 (more likely the 911). And yes, Taurus does make those pistols with rails now. Their web site may not be updated, but I just saw a PT940 with a rail frame for sale at a gun show last weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

== Original CZ 75... ==

In Season 3 Episode 14, the Polish agent at the lighthouse pulls what I believe is an original CZ 75 (pre B). I don't know how to upload screen caps, but if someone else wants to confirm this, it's at 4:41 in the episode. - [[User:WATYF|WATYF]]

I'm sure it's a pre B, rounded trigger guard is a dead giveaway.

[[Image:Burn Notice S03 E14 CZ 75 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

--[[User:Noe|Noe]] 12:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==S04E06==

Does anyone know what concealed carry pistol Buddy is carrying at roughly 8 min? I can't take screenies on this computer, they just turn out all black :<.

==S04E09==
Cohen or what the dudes name was, was holding a H&K P30 on Michael

== Breaking Up By Season? ==

The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons, so it may be time to break up this page by season. The only thing is that many of the same guns are used in every season. Thoughts? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 07:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I personally dont see the point of breaking it up into seasons. Most entries are marked with season and episode so if your wondering about a specific one most web browsers have a built in search function. On Opera and Firefox to open the search box just use Ctrl+F. Noe

== ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? ==
After Michael and Fiona get out of Seymours mansion after Seymour attacks them is the "laser targeting assist" she has on her rifle an ATPIAL/AN PEQ15? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

No one got an answer? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==Remington 870==

wrong....I don't know what it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 14:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

How is that not a Remington 870? --[[User:ShootoutWithDave|ShootoutWithDave]] 15:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

A few things have always bugged me about those guns. First, the barrel doesn't seem to connect to the magazine tube the right way. Second the safety and slide release seem to be missing. Third there is no clear view of the right side of the weapon so we cannot see the ejection port. And lastly, we never see them actually fire, the "water shell" is a practical effect, not a blank round. I would bet money they're airsoft. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:16, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Shotgun US Remington 870 'Tac Star' 12 gauge slide action shotgun.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Remington 870 with pistol grip and vertical foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:BNshotgunCase.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Seymour proudly opens his case of customized shotguns.]]
[[Image:Burn 266.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[Image:Burn 267.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]

Something is off about them. The trigger guard doesn't look right either, the inside of them is too squared. Often times S&W 3000 shotguns are misidentified as 870s. But they aren't 3000s either. As [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] said probably airsoft.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I could be wrong, but I've a pretty strong feeling that those are actually Ithaca 37s, or at least, fakes based off the Ithaca 37, anyway. The trigger guard looks awful close and if they're Ithacas/Ithaca-based, it would also explain the lack of side ejectors. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Pin placement is wrong for Ithaca, it mostly resembles 870 but is just not right. And it's not that the ejection port doesn't exist, it's that it's not seen. The problem that makes my say airsoft is that the weapon isn't seen to function in any way aside from the practical effect for the "water round." No blank fire or weapon cycling. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 20:29, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
::They look like nickel plated Winchester 1300 defenders with pistol grips and standard mag tubes. And I don't think they're airsoft, if you look down the barrel of one of them in the case, you see residue from firing blanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:: Winchester 1300 Defs? Bah, why didn't I think of that? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::- Not a 1300 either. 1300s have a single pin, and the safety button would be visible as would the slide release. And the "residue" could be just about anything, and I think its more likely to be from lighting. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 21:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

==Robert Patrick==

Robert Patrick uses the USP with the silver slide in the most recent episode. -- [[User:K|K]] 12:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==Jessie's Rifle==

Anyone know what Jessie was using when he "shot" Micheal in the finale? --[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

It's listed on here as a Colt Model 933 but I don't think it is. If you look at the rail and the front sights it looks like a HK416 to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 17:02, 4 July 2011 (CDT)

== Not a Remington 700? ==

Is this not a Remington 700? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:BNassassinRifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Evelyn the assassin ([[Lucy Lawless]]) adjusts the scope on her Remington.]]
[[Image:BNassassinRifle2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A view of the other end of the Remington: the end you would rather be behind.]]
I don't think this is correct, at least based on the picture of the 700PSS provided. Look at the bolt handle, not what on a factory Remington 700. And the stock is too glossy and smooth looking to be a tactical rifle

== H&K P30 or HK45? I think this gun is misidentified. ==

This looks more like a Heckler and Koch P30 than an HK45. They are very similar looking except the external safety on the HK45, the bottom of the magazine is different, and the HK45 is larger.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/4/41/BurnS4_309.jpg/500px-BurnS4_309.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/c/c8/HH45.jpg/400px-HH45.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/12/HK-P30.jpg/350px-HK-P30.jpg

(I tried to post the pictures but couldn't get it to work). Notice the difference in the bottom of the magazine. The HK45 is also a full-size, the P30 is a compact. Notice the slight difference in the length of the slide. The gun in his hand looks more like a compact, and the slide looks shorter than the HK45. I'm new, so I'm not going to change anything myself. Just a suggestion.

SnakeDoc

Its definately A P30.. you can tell by the trigger guard

== New sidearm for Weston in Season 4? ==

The attached picture from Burn Notice may show Weston carrying an HK P30 9mm. (Again, I can't figure how to embed the picture).

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/113/1135169/burn-notice-20101117073255292_640w.jpg

It is a publicity still from the latest episode (aired in late November). If I recall the episode correctly, he drew the gun on his own (didn't recover it from someone else) and used it to shoot a fake chemical weapon cannister filled with tear gas and pesticide.
It looks like an H&K to me ... too small to be an HK45, not square enough to be a USP Compact. I'm pretty sure it isn't Weston's usual Sig, though I am unsure if it represents a permanent change in sidearm of choice.

Hope not, SIG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HK, like is way better.

Its definatetly a P30. Personally i think a new gun would be good the P228 is outdated and is used by everybody in most T.V shows so a new gun like the P30 would be good.. OR stay with Sig and get the P229 E2

honestiy , i like the P228 with him . its been with him since the pilot so i say , if it aint broke dont fix it simmons 8492

Its his signature weapon, seriously signature weapons cant be changed.

:Yep, it's official: Michael Weston has switched to the H&K P30 as his new sidearm. I was a bit disappointed, as I hoped he would just get a newer SIG (i.e. the P229R, SP2022, or P250), but P30 it is. I figured it was inevitable at some point he was gonna switch sidearms. Actually, I'm surprised he had the 228 for as long as he did, considering the assortment of new(er) pistols that have been used by other characters on the show (like the Walther PPS, FN Five-Seven USG, and Springfield XD, among others). I would have figured it's a rule in Hollywood that the protagonist always has to have the best gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

XD was only briefly shown in one episode, I believe 5-7 was too. Look at Sam, conealing a beretta the whole series, Fiona likes her ppk and michael had a SIG. Now I have to see a HK.......Sigh. A PPS may be a better choice for a new gun for Fiona. And the 92 is a beast, maybe something SIG sized for Sam would be appropriate, hes also a former seal so it would make sense.

: Signature weapons can change occasionally. Jack Bauer switched from a Sig to an H&K USP Compact between Seasons 2 and 3 of 24 (he used the USPc for the remaining seasons). I don't mind the change. I actually like the P30 quite a bit personally, so its good to see it getting a bit more publicity. -- SnakeDoc

I hate HK, I mean, a rail that only takes their special accessories, instead of a standard rail everybody else uses, since there you know, too good for a streamlight or what not, and they got a mag release on the trigger guard instead of the grip. The sig is compact, accurate, reliable, and has the ergos right.

-k9870

: The P30 has a standard rail.

-looks like the 228 is back in the finale ;)

Agreed the Sig is back for the finale show down... I agree i'd love to see him make the practical and logical step to a Sig P229R DAK... because in a adreneline situation who wants to remember long pull short pull---ST0NEFIELD

::Me.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:26, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

-Can we get some pictures of him using a P30 because I can't find any

:Who keeps deleting the line about Michael Westen changing his sidearm to a P30? I added it once, it got deleted, I added it again, and it is deleted again. I am going to add it again (along with some pics), and I ask that whoever keeps deleting it stops. Thanks.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 13:05, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

He has reverted back to the HK P30 as of the first episode of the fifth season.

Did any other Sig-Sauer fans feel a little sad that Michael Weston left us for HK? --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 13:57, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol in S04E15 "Brotherly Love" ==

Did anybody notice the gun that Michael gave to Sam in the loft, the one that he said that Fiona had modified to fire 3-round bursts? It only showed it for a second, so I didn't get a good lock at it, and I was just wondering if anybody here did and recognized it --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

HK VP70, I think. He probably meant Fiona altered it to fire burst without the stock attached.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 07:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that does indeed look like what I saw. Never even heard of that pistol before, and I consider myself somewhat of a gun nut, so it's cool to learn about a new gun. It's kind of neat how they build the selector switch into the stock mount. Thanks for the info! --[[User:THizzle80|THizzle80]]

== Mike's Holster ==

Anyone have any clue what holster Mike uses? You don't get a lot of good looks at it, but you get a fairly good one in Season 1's 'Unpaid Debts', when he's walking away from the screen after they kidnap the brother of the pimp. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:32, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

It changes. Ive seen an iwb, a Small of back serpa, mexican carry, etc.

==Jesse's Rifle==

Okay, dont attack me for this but i think in season 4's guilty as charged Jesse is using a HK416. Look at the gas black, Hk front sight and the lower side rails. With all the othe Hk love in series 4 it wouldnt be too abnormal to have a 416 turn up --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 14:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

How does one go about submitting alterations? In the Episode "Good Soldier" (S2E9) a pistol is listed here as being a S&W 459. I looked a the episode on DVD and it looks like a Kimber SIS. The forward and rear slide serrations are very distinctive.

==639==

Seth Peterson uses a 639 as opposed to a 4006. The front sight is fixed and the trigger guard is round without serrations, features of a second generation, and it also has a single stack frame.

==Beretta Cougar?==

I just noticed this in 3x13 Partners in Crime. It's the gun Michael hands Nate when he asks to keep an eye on mom though it doesn't get used in the episode. Initially I thought it was a Px4, but after brightening it looks like a Beretta Cougar.

Picture (brightened for clarity):

[[File:Burnnoticecoug.jpg]]

- IGemini - 18:40, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Yep, It's a Beretta Cougar. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:16, 23 June 2011 (CDT)

== The Fall of Sam Axe? ==

So, as to the new 'movie', are we making a separate page for it, or are we just adding it all to this one? Personally, I think we should make a new page, since this one is getting kinda long. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:53, 18 April 2011 (CDT)

Yes, since it is a separate movie, it will get a separate page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:05, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
:Okay. It's up on Hulu currently, if anyone wants to start getting screenshots. I'll go back and compile a list of weapons in a while. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 16:03, 18 April 2011 (CDT)
== MP5 (S4 Finale) ==
I am not entirely sure, but I believe that the MP5s used by Vaughn's men in the Season 4 finale (Last Stand) are of the A5 variant, based on the 3-position; collapsible stock, and the HK "3 round burst" trigger group. This can be clearly seen when Michael, Fiona, and Jesse are at the elevator shaft, talking with Vaughn; Michael's MP5 is slung, with a somewhat clear shot of the fire selector. I can upload a screenshot if necessary. --[[User:Progamer7100|Progamer7100]] 11:23, 8 May 2011 (CDT)

==Season 5==
Just watched the seasons premiere, no new guns to report all have previously been covered on the page. Wondering if the new series Suits on the same network contains any guns and deserves a page. I'm gonna watch it asap anyways (: [[User:Noe|Noe]] 15:35, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

Talk:Knight and Day

2011-06-28T12:46:45Z

Rebusdi:

uploaded a screen grab on the 92 Elite http://i55.tinypic.com/2ds4va9.png

the ''glock'' that tom cruise uses definetly looks like the sig p250 to me too.
it has the indention that the sig's have on their slide, and the rail at the buisness end is to ''tall'' to be a glock. -Zulu

on of the thugs on the plane had an unknown bolt action pistal I think Rex095

Not related to firearms but i just want to say that i really hate tom cruise. Dillinger
:you're not the only one.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 23:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
::After Collateral I have a love/hate relationship for him, he can be pretty badass when he delves into a role, but as a person he's pretty whacked. I never say I really hate actors though, because personally I haven't met the guy. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

After witnessing Cruise's acting in Tropic Thunder, I know that the reason why I don't like him entirely is because he's "Tom Cruise". There's just something you need to hate about the guy. In Tropic Thunder, Cruise wears this fat suit, heavily makeup to the point where you can't tell it's him, so when he acts, it really shines because you forget it's Tom Cruise. The man's acting talent is top notch...just his infamous appearance is a turn off and causes people to just simply hate him for being him [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:57, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:: Just watched Tropic Thunder again, you're right, I hate the Tom cruise 'image', but he is so (pardon my french) f''king funny--[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:46, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

Tom has a 1911 in his hand on the poster, does he use one of those in the Movies? Tom really hasnt madeany bad movies, i just wish people could seperate a actor from their personal lives. He rocks as Ethen Hunt and always give 100% to action flixs...except for the Religion thing he is the Man!...Mission Impossible 3 is the $H!T [[Spades of Columbia]]

The 1911 you are asking about is from the cover, and the rooftop shoot out, is a Springfield TRP Operator .45, i just watched it and wanted to check here, a few days
ago i looked this firearm up on here since i own one of these fine weapons, and it was not mentioned on the page.

:Can't believe he stared in this shit. He should have gone for something else rather than this. When I watched it, the movie was overloaded with too much action and the story's setting keeps moving too fast. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:21, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
The 1911 you are asking about from the cover and the the rooftop shoot out, is a Springfield TRP Operator .45, i just watched it and wanted to checked here a few days
ago since i own one of these fine weapons, and it was not mentioned on the page.
It's definitely LR 300 saw the movie today it has the distinctive handguard although it had a small rail i front of the handguard with a stubby grip

Pretty sure in the car chase scene when Tom is shooting at the agents on the hood his P250 starts off with a laser sight then it seems to be without one.

The gun Cruise has in his hands in the car chase scene, while on the roof of the car in the tunnel, isn't the P250 he had earlier. It is not two tone, it doesn't have the laser, and it has a single action mode. I'll try to grab a screen cap of it.

[[File:AnObfuscator_CruiseGun.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

That's a [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 15:33, 26 March 2011 (CDT)
: Good eye, I think you're right on that. --[[User:AnObfuscator|AnObfuscator]]