Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

User talk:PunisherDave

2010-10-26T21:18:24Z

PunisherDave: /* RE:Red Dot Sight Modern Warfare 2 talk page */

User talk:PunisherDave

2010-10-26T21:18:12Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta 92 */

==RE:Red Dot Sight Modern Warfare 2 talk page==
It's actually based on the Doctor red dot sight. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 14:27, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

User:PunisherDave

2010-10-26T21:18:00Z

PunisherDave: Removing all content from page

User talk:MoviePropMaster2008 (Archive)

2010-10-24T13:50:53Z

PunisherDave:

Most of my uploaded firearms pics were photographed by me and thus offered for use by IMFDB with my permission.

BTW: Please IDENTIFY yourself when you leave a message. I shouldn't have to sleuth your identity through the Wiki/History page to figure out who asked what. ;) Thanks.

==NO REQUESTS==

'''I am copying this announcement from my User Page. So if you want a photo of a specific gun, don't ask me. I photograph what I can, when I can. Any new requests will be deleted and not answered. Thanks. MPM2008'''

==NEW RULE==
I appreciate input and questions from new members. But new members SHOULD list their age and what country they are from. It really helps me formulate an appropriate response. I don't want to sound like a jerk when I assume that you're an adult and you're an American, when and if you are not. Thanks for your cooperation.

==Intentionally off color==
You think, that [[Hobo with a Shotgun]] footage is intentionally off color? Hm. That idea is intersting, but scenes with pedophile and serial killer were in absolutely normal light and such a muzzle flashes... Well... Can I write about "intentionally off-color muzzle flashes"?
If I mistaken it with something, maybe someone else can, so it's still can be useful. --[[User:Kloga|Kloga]] 19:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

== Fictional gun names ==
I changed them back, but using quotations to denote fictional looks unprofessional, the second you read sentance one of any of these you can tell it's fictional. Maybe put (fictional firearm) at the end of each title. But I digress --[[User:jonatheng|jonatheng]]

== AMT Automag ==
I created a new page for the AMT Automag as the Automag III and Automag IV are completely separate designs than the .357 Auto Mag pistol that I have had the luck to be able to examine. Also AMT was never involved in manufacturing the origional Auto Mag pistol. Basically they were useing the name for marketing purposes. I'm just giving my reasoning. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:03, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

As I don't have an form of Automag to examine again in person(of the three different models I have examined two were of questionable origin and the third was out of my pricerange). I have been looking up both the Auto mag and the AMT Automag Models. The Automag Mosels look to be based on Longslide M1911s rather than the AMC Automag. If you look at the control layout the AMC model and the AMT Models have vastly differety control setups.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]]

==Sentinel Arms Stryker==
Dear Sir,
I was wondering if you had any information about the Sentinel Arms Stryker that is shown on the Desparado page. I know it's an Armsel Striker varient but I don't know enough about it to say anything about it on the Armsel striker page. I've also seen a Striker Varient made by Penn Arms and i want to know what the differance is. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]]

==Wesley's Beretta==
Hi, I am requesting a picture of Wesley's Beretta 92S used in Wanted (2008). If you don't mind.[[User:GunnutHk|GunnutHk]]

==US Navy Mark 12 MOD X Special Purpose Rifle==
Hi I was referred by MT2008 that you may have access to a MK 12 SPR or a similar weapon. If you have access to an image to add to the Mk 12 SPR section of the M16 page that would be appreciated. The current image has a watermark and is a graphic from somewhere and probably copyrighted so It would be cool if that image could be replaced. thanks, -[[User:AdAstra2009]]

Well thanks for looking into it, I appreciate it -[[User:AdAstra2009]]

: Check with Mike he has them in inventory. -[[User:Phoenixent |Steve]] 06:42, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

==YES!==

Thank you SO much! Those look great, and actually, they look very close to the ones that have appeared in quite a few movies. We can start replacing the two-tone SIG pics that we have on our other pages with these immediately! Again, I ''greatly'' appreciate you doing this for me. How will I ever repay you?

Out of curiosity, since you told me that they usually don't fit, how did you make them work together? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Re: MP5A5==

Huh, that's interesting. I always figured Stembridge would have mostly -90 series guns that looked just like those "MP5s" that appear in so many productions they've rented to. Any idea why those HK94s were never converted further to make them look like more realistic MP5s? As my ''[[Air Force One]]'' page shows, Stembridge basically left those guns as-is well into the 1990s.

Thanks for the MP5A5 picture...I was actually close to replacing it myself (albeit with something from a Google image search). And yes, I'm sure more people than me appreciate them! At least, I hope so. You're pretty much the most important person we've got when it comes to gun images. I mean, how many sites out there get to have pictures of the same prop weapons used in many films?

==Thanks for the new pictures==

You've uploaded a lot of good pictures recently...I especially like the S&W 4506 and the SIG P220 Sport (is that the one from Cinema Weaponry that's appeared in several movies?) I thought of taking a picture of my own personal 4506 for a while, but gave up because I knew I couldn't take one as good as what you could do. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

Thanks for the pics, they are great- Beeteles

==One other thing...==

I know I keep asking for stuff from you lately, but this time it's talk only.

I just finished working on the ''[[Air Force One]]'' page for this site. That movie features some type of short-barreled AK which looks just like the one from ''[[True Lies]]''. Here's a picture:

[[Image:AFO-shortyAK-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

The next time you talk to Harry Lu, would you mind asking him what these guns are and who owns them (Stembridge?) Thanks! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Re:==

The new pictures are really cool, as usual. I especially love the M16A1 with A2 handguards picture, because there are a lot of Hollywood movies featuring guns with that config, and it's great that we now have a picture to prove to our visitors how you sneaky armorers have deceived so many of us common folk action movie fans with those fake M16A2s! Haha, just kidding. Anyway, how did you get your hands on a Diemaco? Remember Al Vrkljan, the Canadian armorer who helped me out on ''[[The Incredible Hulk (2008)]]''? He told me that Diemaco/Colt Canada wouldn't sell any of their guns to his company or any civilian companies, so where did it come from?

Also, you brought up an interesting point on the ''[[American Gun (2006)]]'' page...as an armorer who works in the film industry, how do you feel about the anti-gun attitudes that seem so prevalent in Hollywood? Does it ever frustrate you and make you not want to rent your guns out to people who are so overtly anti-RKBA? I've always wondered how armorers feel about the people they work with.

Appreciate the effort on the Type 84 and two-tone P226 pics. Whenever you get a chance!

== Oh, yes, and one other request...==

I have another request, this one a bit more unusual. I recently did a page for ''[[2 Fast 2 Furious]]'', which features a two-tone SIG P226 of West German manufacture that has a stainless frame and a regular black slide and barrel. It looks like the armorer just combined two existing guns to make it (since the two-tone P226s usually have black frame and stainless slide), and I'd love to have a picture of something identical for my page. So if you ever get out those two P226s that you photographed for IMFDB back in June, do you mind combining this:

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|250px|]]

..and this...

[[Image:SigP226Nickel.jpg|thumb|none|250px|]]

...to make this?

[[Image:2F2F-P226-10.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:2F2F-P226-13.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

...and then taking a picture of it for me? Also, if you put the slide and barrel from the stainless P226 on the frame of the black P226, you'd have a gun identical to the one from ''[[Face/Off]]'' which we could use for that page.

:Now THAT is news to me. I'm really surprised...finishes really make the fit of the parts THAT difficult? Wow. I don't think the gun above is a factory job because the two-tone P226s that SIG has sold are always black frame and stainless slide, not the other way around. Do you by chance know who supplied the weapons for ''[[2 Fast 2 Furious]]''?

:Thanks for the info, as always.

==Re: Back for a bit==

I do think you're right and that there are some SKS rifles in ''[[Platoon]]'' (which may or may not be Chinese Type 56 copies, for all I know). I own that movie on DVD, so as soon as I get back to my place, I'm gonna have to pop it in my laptop and watch again to be sure. Also, thanks for backing me up on the CAR-15 variants in the film - I was pretty sure they were 653s, and I know that particular model was exported in large numbers to U.S. allies during the 1970s (if you ever check out any Arab-Israeli war photos from the news, even today, you'll see many IDF personnel using them).

I was also suspicious of the "MAC-9" page, because I have never heard of that variant. On the other hand, I had no idea that the 9mm variant of the MAC-10 was called the "MAC-10/9"; I've usually just heard it referred to as a MAC-10. I figure "MAC-9" was just somebody butchering the spelling of "M11/9", which has appeared in lots of movies (I made the entry for that gun under the MAC-10 page myself, though someone else put down - inaccurately - that it was used in ''[[Blue Streak]]'').

Sorry to hear Josh Brolin broke a gun...indeed, how DO you bend a trigger guard? Then again, he's had some issues with the law lately, so maybe it's not too surprising. What film is he working on that required him to carry a Police Chief Special, anyway? Some period piece, I take it? I don't know how frustrating it is to be an armorer, but I can imagine...I mean, if you've rented out dozens of guns to one production, doesn't that make you lose your nerve to think how much those guns must be getting tossed around, even with armorers on-set to supervise their use? Also, remember when you sent me that picture of guns to ID from your vault? How many did I get right?

That's cool if you can get a picture of a Chinese Tokarev. Later. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Long-barreled AK under-folder==

Here is the gun from ''[[The X-Files]]'' I mentioned to you. Found these on a fan site for the show. They're not great quality, but you can see it pretty well:

[[Image:X-files-Type84-4.jpg|thumb|800px|none|]]
[[Image:X-files-Type84-3.jpg|thumb|800px|none|]]
[[Image:X-files-Type84-2.jpg|thumb|800px|none|]]
[[Image:X-files-Type84.jpg|thumb|800px|none|(This one is from a different episode)]]

It's clearly an under-folder, it has a long barrel, but it also has what appears to be a .223 mag. And it seems to have a hooded front sight in the first pic. Any idea what this might be? It's appeared in several episodes of the show from a couple of seasons, and I always thought it was a Type 84 under-folder fitted with the barrel from an RPK clone. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Mike Sudrow is listed on IMDB as having worked on a few episodes of ''[[The X-Files]]''. Since the show lasted so long (nine years), I imagine they probably had many, many different armorers depending on the season/filming location.

::As far as Canadian armorers go, Al Vrkljan of Movie Armaments Group was on here a couple months ago. He corrected me on the ''[[The Incredible Hulk (2008)|Incredible Hulk]]'' page by telling me that, interestingly enough, Diemaco/Colt Canada won't sell its weapons to film armorers in Canada! He also told me more about those mystery grenade launchers we were discussing earlier, plus he updated the page with more guns that I had missed. I really hope he comes back; he said he might be able to get some pictures of the launchers for us.

==Re:Re:Sahara==
As far as the source goes, I believe Crowntower Limited supplied the weapons that were used in ''[[Sahara]]''. I say that based on a couple of deductions: Sascha Robey was one of the armorers who worked on ''[[Casino Royale]]'' as well as ''[[Sahara]]'', Crowntower is listed in the credits of ''[[Casino Royale]]'' (but not ''[[Sahara]]'') as the weapons supplier, and finally, if you look at our ''[[Casino Royale]]'' page, the AKs in that film top look identical to the one in ''[[Sahara]]'' that we were talking about. Perhaps this Sascha Robey rented the same guns for two films.

:OK, you know what? My eyes ''do'' suck! I just stood way, way back from my monitor and squinted, and now I see that it's not a hooded Norinco sight; it's just the angle makes it appear circular. You are right; it can't be a Type 84, or anything that uses Type 84 parts. And I'm guessing that also means I could be wrong about the ''[[Casino Royale]]'' AKs, too.

:It's kinda strange, though...I wouldn't have figured British armorers would use civilian AK variants that were essentially geared towards the U.S. firearms market.

==RE:==

First of all, cheers for the update on the Type 84 picture. There's no hurry; I understand if it takes a while to get the appropriate mags (since obviously, a Type 84 doesn't look very different from a Type 56 without them).

Second, while I don't speak for everyone on here, I can say that I personally do not have any problem with you replacing pictures of guns on this site (even those that I uploaded) with any that you took. Nor do I see why anyone else would. The only reason I can imagine anyone getting offended would be if they went to the same effort you do to get the guns and photograph them on their own. But pretty much everyone else on here just uploads pictures they copied from other gun sites, in some cases ''airsoft'' web sites (like that picture we used to have of the SP89, which was just an airsoft MP5K fitted with an SP89 handguard from DenTrinity; terrible!). And it doesn't take much time or effort to copy and upload someone else's work.

Additionally, your gun photos are obviously of superior quality to anything else on here, and they're of guns that have actually appeared in movies (possibly the same movies as the pages they're on), so as far as I am concerned, there really isn't any reason why we can't replace any existing photos of guns with the ones you've taken. In fact, I would encourage you to ''not'' be so timid in the future when it comes to replacing photos. If you want an example of what I mean by this, take a look at the [[Armalite AR-18]] page. Your AR-18 picture is way better than any of those on the page, so I don't see any reason why you can't just remove some of the others (maybe keep ONE of the other photos of the gun with the scope, and even that could be replaced if you took an equivalent picture).

One thing I will point out, though: I have sometimes used pictures on my pages that are from the web site of Rick Washburn's company Weapons Specialists, Inc. (http://www.weaponspecialists.com/index.php). They provided the guns for ''[[I Am Legend]]'', so the page for that movie now features pictures of the guns used in the film that I copied and uploaded from them (including the tan-framed Mark 23). In cases like that, I'd prefer those particular photos stay up (you'll know them because I always provide links and info mentioning where they're from) because they feature the actual movie guns, and they're decent quality. Besides that, I don't have any problem with you replacing any and all photos of guns on this site with yours.

==Chinese Type 56==

First of all, I GREATLY appreciate the photo you took of one of the ''[[Goldeneye]]'' AKs for me. I didn't know you had access to any British armories?

However, I have one question: Do you think it's really appropriate to classify the Chinese Type 56 rifles with stamped receivers as "AK-47" and "AKS-47" clones, as opposed to AKM/AKMS derivatives? I realize that the Type 56s with stamped receivers lack just about all of the other features of the AKMs (including the muzzle break, ribbed receiver cover, rate reducer, grip rails, narrower front sight, etc.), but I've usually heard them described as AKM copies simply to distinguish them from the earlier milled-receiver versions. I know this is an over-simplification of sorts because the Type 56s aren't really orthodox AK-47s or AKMs (they're more like a weird hybrid version), but I figured it would be more appropriate.

:Well, I would say I know the differences between the two. I must point out that I own a Chinese AK (mine was imported by Golden State Arms and simply has 'AK47S 7.62x39mm - Made in China' stamped on the receiver). I was simply curious whether the presence of a stamped receiver on the Type 56 made it worthy of being designated an AKM variant or not.

:Personally, I think the best bet might be to literally just create a new sub-entry for the Type 56 under the [[AK-47]] page and then we can focus on finding any and all movies that feature the Type 56 and putting them under there. This would reflect best the fact that the Type 56 is sort of a weird hybrid AK-47/AKM with distinctly Chinese characteristics (such as the hooded front sight), which most other AK derivatives (like the Maadis) don't have.

::Haha, no offense taken, just wanted you to know I'm not a complete newbie when it comes to AKs, though obviously you completely blow me out of the water. Anyway, I would definitely appreciate the Type 84 pic whenever you get a chance. Not sure if there's anything else I need at the moment...but I would strongly encourage you to just take pictures of whatever you can get your hands on. As I've said, it's really great that we have you because this site is full of pictures that are copied from sites like world.guns.ru or (in some cases) AIRSOFT websites (i.e. the SP89 picture that we used to have before I replaced it).

::BTW, these are some incredible pics you've gotten us lately, moreso than usual. How on earth did you get that Romanian AIMS from "44 Minutes"? Do you know Thell Reed, too? Also, I'm going to do a LITTLE bit of additional work on the [[AK-47#Type 56|Type 56]] entry, and I think I'm also gonna ditch the AKS-47 one for now (simply because there don't seem to be any movies I'm aware of that have actual milled-receiver Russian AKS-47s or close copies) and move all the Type 56-1 entires down. If you disagree, you can revert (or partially modify) the edits and I won't mind. Also, good work on the [[RPG-7]] article getting the Type 69 mentioned (it's something I wanted to do myself - mostly because "Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" also has a Type 69).

==Re: Editing Dogs of War==

Thanks for the info. I've seen those guns in a whole bunch of movies and I always wondered what they were, who made them, and why. I think they've also appeared in a couple episodes of ''[[The A-Team]]'' and a Chuck Norris movie or two.

I have some great screenshots of the fake Uzis which I took for my ''[[Raw Deal]]'' page (I've been meaning to work on it for ages, but so far, I just never have managed to get around to it). Here they are:

[[Image:Vlcsnap-59410.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

[[Image:Vlcsnap-59747.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

== Re: image ==

Sorry for the mixup. Feel free to replace the image with a better one if you have one handy. It's good to have a professional armourer on the site to help out, you've been doing some good work so far. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904

Sure, you can re-post the CZ99 pic. It isn't "mine"; I took it from world.guns.ru, which is where many of the photographs of guns on this site come from (as you can imagine, that's why I'm happy to have someone like you who is willing to give us original photos, especially when they're of actual movie guns)

== Hey ==

Hey MoviePropMaster, I'm Alienqueen11, and I seen the images you have uploaded, and they're great. I also want to know if you can do me a favor, if you can upload a picture of a [[Remington 870]] with Ghost Ring Sights and a High Capacity Tube like the one in the screenshot below for the [[Dawn of the Dead (2004)]] page, I would greatly appreciate it, and great work so far.
[[Image:DotD_Mossberg2.jpg|thumb|none|350px|]]

== Thanks ==

Thanks for complitementing my knowledge on guns, I also reverted a version of one of your MP5 pictures because someone copied over it with an airsoft image, I really wish some people would checked the thing while they're uploading an image to make sure the name isn't already used to avoid mistakes like this. And once again, thanks for your contributions and keep up the good work. Alienqueen11.

== Heartbreak Ridge M16's ==

I just saw ''[[Heartbreak Ridge]]'' on TV this afternoon, and all the [[M16 rifle series|M16]]'s I saw on-screen were the A1 variant, complete with bolt-forward assist buttons at the rear of the upper recievers. Even saw one fitted with an [[M203 grenade launcher]] used by one of the Recon Marines under Gunnery Sergeant Highway's command.

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 08:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904
- He might want to look at my page and see they weren't ''all'' M16A1s.

==Question==
[[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]: Hi, I was just wondering how is it you take a picture of a gun and get a perfectly white clear background? What method is used to get that effect? My other question is that on the [[Hollow Point]] page I made recently, did I get the AK varient right? I figured I'd ask you as you seem to be the AK pro on the site. Thanks.
(My list of pages is on my profile if you feel like checking any of my other work as well.)

==M14 rifle==
I've noticed that the M14 and M21 rifle pictures on this site aren't really that great, is there any chance you could take some good shots? The pictures now are blurry, or black and white.

==37mm Launcher==
Thanks for fixing up that page, I was told by MT2008 it was a Colt Launcher, I guess it was a Cobray. Finding the pictures of them was probably the hardest thing on the page. Do you think we should keep the M203 to launcher comparison picture or is it irrelevant? -GM

::I built the colt launcher page based on what MT said, but your input greatly helped it. It's a shame taking professional pictures is so complex. The best I have is photoshop and an erase brush. I have a Norinco Type 54 pistol and I wanted to put pictures of it on the site soon. I'm not bad with editing, it should come out okay. I just need to find the time to do it. The M14 rifle pics came out great, let me know if you get your hands on an M21. I'll have plenty of films to be corrected in the future, my to do list touches the sky. One or two every friday or saturday. Stay cool. -GM

==Bren 10 "Peregrine Falcon"==
:Here's a tricky task, do you think you could find a Bren 10 "Peregrine Falcon"? Aparently it is what John Practice uses in [[Last Action Hero]] according to user input, and I can't find a good picture of it. Until I do find a good picture, I'll have to keep my horrible AR-24 picture I had on their before. If it isn't a Bren 10 PF, I'd assume you of all people would shoot me straight.
[[Image:StarMegastarLastActionHero.jpg|thumb|none|400px|This is the picture of him with the Bren 10 "Peregrine Falcon". His is a tutone model, but I'm not that picky. If both can be had, it would make a nice page in the Bren 10 gun section.]]
==M1911/M1911A1==
::I apoligize for asking one more thing of you, but the M1911 and M1911A1 pistols are infamous works of art in the firearms world, commonly used in films. We got a repro M1911 picture (modernized), a Springfield M1911A1 (when Colt M1911A1 is the genuine picture desired), another M1911A1 with pachmyr grips (better than springfield, but see how it sticks out on Platoon? It's ''too'' modern) So is their any chance you could find a genuine (or prefered, an ''authentic'' reproduction) of a Colt M1911 and Colt M1911A1 to snap some shots of, that would be awesome. I trust you know them apart, your a pro. Thanks. Good luck. -GM

==Re:Last Action Hero==
I saw [[Last Action Hero]] when I was young and loved it. Now, it is still one of my favorites. I like how it makes fun of action movies, by showing how Arnold can fire a billion rounds from a Desert Eagle and cars just explode for no reason. I'll fix those problems you mentioned. Your saying they are more likely civilian TEC-9s instead of TEC-DC9's? What physical traits help determine this, just the sling? And they were firing full-auto so they were probably converted.

== Hi! ==

Still no replacement grip for the M70?

Shame, it looks strange with that grip - I'm used to seeing them on M76s and M72s... which reminds me: about that mystery long barreled AK - I know that Crvena Zastava makes under-folder RPKs, namely the M72A (7.62 - based on M70), and the M90A (5.56 - based on an assault rifle of the same designation). The under-folder RPKs (those with an "A") have removable bipods (the standard, solid-stock ones have fixed), so w/ the folding stocks and w/o bipods they would look like those mystery AKs, no? Also, one more improtant fact: unlike the Yugo AKs (which have 3 holes), the Yugo RPKs have TWO holes in the forward grip (like the original AKs). http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/Yugo/pics/m72a.jpg

I hope this was hepful, keep up the good work!

== Request ==

I'm sorry to ask, but if you get the chance, can you upload a [[Beretta M92F|Beretta M92FS]]? I know the ones on the site are already good enough, but I want to see how great one by you would be. I know you're already busy, so don't do it if you're too busy, and if you can't upload it, it's okay. Anyway, welcome back, the new pictures for the M16 and M14 are great. [[User: Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]]

== RE:870 ==

I think you're right about the Mossberg sights on the 870, they seem to match those on the Mossberg more then anything.

Here the picture I had on the page when I thought his shotgun was a Mossberg 500:
[[Image:Mossberg500.gif|thumb|none|335px|[[Mossberg 500]] 12 ga. with optional ghost ring sights.]]

And this is the image I have on the page now, seeing it now, they look nothing like the sights in the screencap:
[[Image:870p.jpg|thumb|none|335px|Remington 870 Police Magnum with magazine extention tube and ghost ring sights.]]

And it looks like the armorer must have put the Mossberg sights on the Remington:
[[Image:DotD Mossberg2.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]

Hope this helps, and thanks for the favor, I appreciate it. [[User: Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]]

== Done ==

Don't worry, he won't be able to edit again, if it happens again, I'll be sure to make so only registered users can edit the [[Commando]] page. [[User: Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]]

==Karabiner 98k sniper rifle==
:I recently noticed while working on the [[Saving Private Ryan]] page that we have no sniper rifle varient Kar98k rifle pic. I've noticed you [[Enemy at the Gates]] page is in need of this picture as well too. I apoligize for adding yet another gun to your to-do list but just let me know if you find one. -GM45

==Re: FINALLY==

Excellent! I already have a use for the 870 folder, too - just put it on the ''[[RoboCop]]'' page (which features an identical weapon). And thanks for the UMP-45 and the Gen 2 Glock-17 as well! There are so many movies that feature Gen 2 Glocks, yet all we have is that stock picture of a Gen 3. When I get back to my place later today, I'm going to start using your Glock in every movie page that features such a gun.

Also...that AR15A2 you photographed; can we consider it an M16A2? Is it converted to auto or burst? We really need a good M16A2 picture, because the one that appears throughout the site is yet another crappy airsoft picture.

==RE:==

Hmmm, I'll have to see. There's lots of loose women and great beer over here in Texas that I ''might'' be able to offer you, but the gold's gonna be hard to come by! Haha.

Thanks yet AGAIN for the improved two-tone P226 picture. Weirdly enough, I completely failed to notice that the one in ''[[Face/Off]]'' had a silver hammer until you pointed it out. But it's great that you have a better eye for detail than I do, and moreso that you corrected it. And, of course, thank you for answering my questions about movie guns to the best of your ability. I think your idea for a 12-gauge pump page is perfectly useful, though I must point out that if it can't be categorized, it's gonna be hard for other users to find it. In order to make sure people see it, please add links to it on pages for the shotguns it distinguishes from each other. That would be the best way to make sure your word gets out.

Hope you don't mind, but I've already shown your SIG pics on SIGforum.com to draw attention to our site. I'd show your H&K pictures on HKPRO forum (where I also post), too, if their forum wasn't down every other minute. I dunno if you post on any other gun-related boards, but if you do, show off your pics and point folks to IMFDB. The more attention, the better. We've already got 55,000 views from the ''[[Heat]]'' page (which features your P220 and M16A1 pictures, among others), so spread the word and more people will discover the beauty of IMFDB with its original movie gun pictures, taken by an actual movie armorer!

Oh, yeah, and I will respond to the topic of vandals on Bunni's talk page shortly. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Re:Dibbs==
Feel free, one less thing for me to do. I only ask that you keep the bow and knife on the page so it fits the other two. I'll eventually add them to [[Rambo (2008)]] so that one fits as well. If anything I'll likely just add some shots like I tend to do. Thanks for asking me and not just doing it. Can't wait to see it. -[[User:Gunmaster45|GM45]]
::Almost forgot, MT2008 may have asked already but we really need a Poly Tech Legend AK pic.

:::Nope, I forgot, too! Yeah, it wouldn't be a bad idea. I've been looking for one on Google image search, but no go on any good ones. Also, speaking of AKs (and here I go again making your request list longer), a new AKM pic would be nice. Not to sound unappreciative, but I tend to shy away from the one you took just because the red stock looks out-of-place and ugly, plus the magazine is the plastic type rather than the ribbed type. If you can get a picture of one of the Maadi AKMs with the right stock, plus a metal ribbed-style mag (which is more the "classic" style, if you will)...great. If not, no worries. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Re:Casino Royale==

Yep, that's the exact same picture I looked up to remind myself what an M76 was. Actually, I think I always thought that the M76 just referred to their long-range rifle, and I didn't remember that their smaller-caliber AKs were called M76. But I did know off the top of my head that it couldn't be Zastava because their full-sized AKs always have the folding GL sight, and the ''[[Casino Royale]]'' AKs don't.

BTW, any idea what's wrong with the [[Taurus PT92]] picture you gave us? I just put it on the page for ''[[The X-Files]]'', and now it's disappeared. A search of the page history indicates no act of vandalism.

Oh, yeah, and one other thing: I never thanked you for getting that Australian Automatic Arms carbine picture for ''[[The Matrix]]'' page. So...thanks! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== DotD 870 ==

I don't mean to bug you, but did you have any luck with the Dawn of the Dead Remington 870, and did the message I sent you about about the sights help at all, please let me know. Also excellent work lately, The new Mossberg 500 and Remington 870 pictures are great, and so are the many other pictures you uploaded lately, I really like the two tone Sig P226s you got for MT2008, those are one of kind. Good luck, and keep up the good work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:10, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

==Kelly's Heroes==
I was aware they were using FN BAR type D 8mm guns instead of american .30-06 BARs but I didn't know they were using the wrong mag pouches. Thanks for the info. -GM45

==Re:M1911 pistols==
The 1911 pictures are absolute perfection. The M1911 from 1913 looks great. I have one from 1913 too and yours puts mine to shame. Thanks very much. -GM45

:And thanks for the P38, too! Feel free to just delete the one that's been on the P38 already, and insert your image into any and all movie pages featuring P38s. I've been replacing old gun images on many pages with your new gun images (i.e. the Glock you uploaded earlier in the week). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Need some help ==

Hello, I just added a few more guns in The Unit page and I need some help IDing some of them that I can't seem to put my finger on. Care to give me a hand if you can?

-Excaliber

== Re: Beretta M92FS ==

It looks excellent, I don't mind an American made Beretta, an Italian made one isn't too different, is it? If you come across an Italian one in the future, you can upload that, but you don't have to, like I said, I like the new one as it is. Thank you soo much for the favor, you never disappoint.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:28, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

==Thanks for the USP!==

I was thinking of asking you for a USP pic, but figured I should hold off on it, just to prevent you from getting bogged down.

As you can tell, we're embarking on a campaign to replace any and all older images of guns taken from other sites, with the pictures you've uploaded. I'm also curious...what would you think of a page dedicated to explaining the importance of your gun images to new users of the site, and featuring examples of your work? It would be linked from the main page. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Should cartoons be allowed? ==

I want to know if it is either no one cares about the fact that cartoons like Family Guy, The Simpsons, American Dad, and recently South Park had been allowed to this site. I have don't think these pages should exist because do you think about the rare guns that appears on those shows and wonder what they are? Cause I sure don't. I'm too busy laughing my ass off to how funny these series are, not wondering if the shotgun Homer used in the Zombie episode was a Winchester Model 1887 or that it never appeared in any other episode following. I don't care and I dont think anyone else should care. We're getting cartoon fanboys that thinks just because Family Guy has an episode where Stewie has a closet full of look alike guns, means we should write a page about them. Those guns are not the point of the show and the artist that drew them obviously didn't take much consideration for them or mention. I think Family Guy, The Simpsons, American Dad, and South Park be removed at once. None of them deserve to be on this site. And whoever puts them here doesn't respect this site enough.
::That's a little harsh. I added some of the info on those pages, thank you. I was eventually going to do the South Park movie, because it does in fact have some pretty obvious guns in it. Personally I think they shouldn't be removed but if they are to stay, someone should take the time to screencap them and show us what they are talking about. -GM45

==Reign of Fire==
I just finished screencapping [[Reign of Fire]] and before I upload them on the page, I wanted to see if you knew what this gun is. Based on what I see I'm assuming it is a .577 Nitro Tyrannosaurus Rex rifle built personally by the Mauser company's greatest gunsmiths based on the Mauser rifle type extractor/bolt release and the Mauser style firing pin striker seen on the gun. At first I thought it was a Model 70 or a Mauser sporterized and then they show what big ass rounds he loads in it so now I just don't know. I figured of all, you'd likely know best. Also, if it is a T-rex rifle, I'd likely need a picture of it because as usual, the internet sucks for finding gun pics. I know this gun is rare but so is the .600 Nitro double barreled rifle, but that is seen in [[The Lost World: Jurassic Park]] despite that. I'm not expecting a picture from you because I know how rare and expensive it is but I figured if it ever came up I could count on you.

Here's the pics:
[[Image:ROFbigrifle-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|His rifle resting up against the table.]]
[[Image:ROFbigrifle-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Note the extractor/bolt release and Mauser style striker.]]
[[Image:ROFbigrifle-3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:ROFbigrifle-4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:ROFbigrifle-5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|This scope symbol looks familiar, what brand is this?]]
[[Image:ROFbigrifle-6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Look at the monstrous rounds he loads it with. Only two fit in the gun! They look like either .577 or .600 Nitro rounds.]]
[[Image:ROFbigrifle-7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:ROFbigrifle-8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:ROFbigrifle-9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|He fires the rifle at the big bull dragon, which does nothing and tosses it away after two shots.]]

Hope you respond soon. -[[User:Gunmaster45|GM45]]
::I've decided to upload the movie tommorow to give you more time to respond. -GM

: I didn't expect you'd have one, after all it isn't a mass produced company gun. Major members of the Mauser company make it customly crafted. You'll see it all on the page in a sec. Also, the pic I uploaded I had to edit so it was horizontal and since it had 4 whited corners after turning it, I had to clone the corners in. Once you know, it is far more obvious to tell where I edited.

==Re: New Pics==

What I meant is that I want to make sure people on this site see how thorough you are, and how accurately you match guns to requests. Remember that AR15 Sporter that you visually modified to look like an XM177 from ''[[The Dogs of War]]''? Or the two SIG P226s you made to look the ones in ''[[Face/Off]]'' and ''[[Bad Boys II]]''? Those are the kinds of gun pics that I want to show off to new folks. What I would do is just make a page that briefly explains your contributions, and then shows guns you've photographed and how close they are to those in the movies. This is an unformed idea, I admit, but basically, I want people browsing this sight to understand (1.) That your images are exclusive to IMFDB, and (2.) That they're basically close representations of what those users have seen in movies. I know I'm not being terribly articulate, but do you understand what I mean?

And don't worry about replacing previous pics with your pics. The rest of us will continue to do that for you, as we've been doing. So far, we've pretty much replaced all of the old M16s, M4s, Berettas, Glocks, Kar98s, MP40s, etc. with your guns. I think I'm gonna start putting your USP pic on our pages, too (except those that feature the larger .45 variant of the USP, like ''[[Collateral]]'').-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==AK-47 recognition page==
Now that you've made a Shotgun page, why not make an AK page to tell a Norinco from a Maadi from a genuine, from a poly tech, etc.
Also, maybe an M16 page for slab sides, A1s, A2s, etc.
It would probably help the users out a lot. I'm sure the shotgun page did. Personally, I have trouble telling a Norinco Type 56 aside from its hooded sight. Perhaps a couple of close ups of sight placement, recievers and all that will make me a more efficient I.Der. -GM45

== Dawn of the Dead ==

Hey, MPM2008, I uploaded some more shots of Ving Rhames' shotgun in [[Dawn of the Dead (2004)]] if you want to take a look, it's in the Custom Remington 870 section of the page. Thanks in advance.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

== Hey ==

Hey, MPM2008, do you want me to put protections on your images so no one can revert them if they've been upload over with images from the internet in the past, or upload over them? I'm asking this because some user keeps uploading a crappy picture from the internet over your H&K USP40 image. And if you want, I could ask Bunni to make you a mod or I can take the protections off them whenever you want to edit them or upload a new version of them. Let me know what you want to do.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 20:24, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Update: I protected all your images, and I also asked Bunni to make you an adminstrator so you can upload new versions of or revert them if want. If you not made an admin right away, just tell me what image you want to access, and I'll unlock it for you. I'm sorry I had to do this, but I wanted to prevent idiots like the guy who kept uploading over your H&K USP40 from changing your pictures, and I promise, if I ever get the ability to block users back, I will undo the protections. See you soon and good luck.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

:Made you a mod, enjoy. [[User:WikiSysop|WikiSysop]] 22:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

== Response ==

Thanks, I will always make sure your images stay the way they are. And I didn't understand that user either, I told him politely a bunch of times to stop, but he wouldn't listen. What really intrigues me most is how somebody could prefer a crappy image they probably found on Google Images over an excellent well photographed image such as yours. As for being a mod, congratulations, but I most warn you that the block function is not working at this time, but Bunni is trying his best to fix it, but you will be able to delete any pages or images you don't want, and you will also be able to protect pages. And if we ever get the ability to block back, that one user is going to be the first on my list.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:20, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

As for the 870, take as much time as you need to, I'm sure it'll be worth the wait when it's uploaded. I will also have more requests in the future, but I won't bother you with them right now. And I also I have a question, I read your new project pictures thing on your user page, and when you say 870 riot configurations, do mean Remington 870s similar in appearence to the one seen in [[Walking Tall]]? Thanks, and good luck, I can't wait to see any future images you upload.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:20, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Update- MPM2008, you are now able to block vandals.

==Re:Special page==

Well, that's fine. But now that you're a mod and your images can be protected, I don't think there's much to worry about. I also think it would just be cool if new users understood right off the bat that IMFDB has essentially its own movie armorer. -MT2008

== Other Request ==

Hey, MPM2008, whenever you get the chance, is there a possiblity you can get me a Beretta 92FS Inox or Stainless model of the Beretta 92FS? Thanks in advance. Also, good work with your recent images, I really like the new Walther P99, I was going to ask for one, but you thought about it before I did. Keep up the great work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:51, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

==Sin City Yellow Bastard's custom 92FS==
YB's Beretta 92FS in [[Sin City]] is a unique blend of a factory black and an Inox model, similair to SIG-Sauer used in 2 fast 2 furious. Since AQ11 just asked for an Inox, if you get your hands on one, do yuo think you could mix the two together. This is the gun in the movie.
[[Image:SC92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Note how it has reverse tutone rather than the typical factory style.]]

Thanks -GM45

==Re: Reign of Fire==
Thanks. Take your time on the Ultimax, it isn't a big deal right now. Wiki just made me an Admin. so I'm feeling pretty damn special right now. I'm going to get the Punisher (2004) on today, than I'm finally back on track with my original list. -GM45

=="Non Guns"==

I just made a page for the [["Non Guns"]], and I'm curious to know what you think of it. I don't know a whole lot about them besides what I've read online, whereas I imagine you've probably got some experience with them, since I've heard many armorers rent them for scenes where blanks are unsafe. Any thoughts? Would say the summary I've done at the top of the page is a pretty good description of what they do?

Cheers.-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Haha, trust me, I hear you on the "fugly" part. I cringe every time I spot a Non Gun in a movie or TV show, because they're ''soooooo'' fake-looking and too many idiot directors don't even think to film them at angles/lighting conditions where it won't be so obvious what they are. But, like you've said, our goal here is to be educational and informative, and no matter how crappy Non Guns might look, they are still important to the topic of guns in cinema, and that's what we're here for. :) The images are from Weapons Specialists' web site, which apparently subrents them; ISS has their own pictures, but I prefer Weapons Specialists' because theirs don't have the measuring tape above the gun.

:Sorry to hear you've been sick, but don't worry...you never have to apologize for anything. I really like the idea of your "Hello IMFDB!" card and think it would be great for our site. I will, of course, not demand it or anything, but it would be awesome if we had something like that. I agree with the idea of using the IMFDB logo, though if I can think of anything else, I'll tell you. As usual, thanks for all the work you've been doing (for us AND Hollywood), and thanks for the kind words on my Non Guns page. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== 2nd-Gen Glock 23 ==

Hey, I was wondering if you could possibly provide an image of a 2nd-Generation [[Glock#Glock 23|Glock 23]] for the article on ''[[The Fugitive]]'', since the image for that weapon on the page is of a 3rd-Generation model with accessory rails on the frame as opposed to the smooth-framed 2nd-Generation model seen in the screenshots? I already edited the [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22]] section similarly for that article and the sequel ''[[U.S. Marshals]]'', and was wondering if you could help me out with that one image so I don't have to chase down an image on Google. Thanks in advance. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 08:11, 1 November 2008 (UTC)Orca1_9904

:I asked for Second-Generation Glocks, those are 3rd generation (note the accessory rails at the front of the frame). Seeing as someone identified the compact Glock model in the film in question as a Glock 19 it's something of a moot point now. However, a 2nd-Generation [[Glock#Glock 19|Glock 19]] image would be appreciated as there's none available here yet and there's several pages here that could benefit from an image of that weapon. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:50, 12 November 2008 (UTC)Orca1_9904

== Get Well Soon ==

Hey MPM2008, I heard you were sick so I wanted to stop by and say get well soon.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 20:45, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

==My man!==

Awesome! The AKM and Type 84 look great; they're just what we needed. It's weird that I haven't been able to find a good picture of a standard fixed-stock Type 84 anywhere; yours might just be one of the best pics of this gun on the entire 'net right now. Question...is the AKM a Maadi, or is some other make? I would like to edit the entry on the AK-47 page to say if it is or not.

I will start phasing out the old pictures and replacing them, although it seems you guys have a head start on me. And thanks for the other new pictures as well - love that new PSG-1, the Uzi Carbine, and of course the "plain" 870 police (which, like you said, was something we REALLY needed). I'm also glad to see you're better, too. Take care. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

(BTW...dunno if you've noticed, but I only discovered this recently; if you hit the " ~ " key four times, it signs your posts automatically so that you don't have to type out your username. I've been using Wikis for several years now and I only just figured that out. Alienqueen discovered this long before I did, but just a heads-up.)

== Great work ==

Thanks for the police 870, it looks excellent. we really needed a standard since so many of the 870s on the site look like that. I'll be sure to replace all the 870s that need to be replaced with that. And also, I'm glad to hear you got better.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 18:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

==Pics==

Hi,

First of all, thanks yet again for the new pics! The SR9s are nice, but...I had no idea that some SR9s in movies are actually converted from HK91s? If that's the case, then by all means, you should still go ahead and put down those pics under the SR9 section of the G3 page. But does this also mean that the SR9(T) from ''[[The Replacement Killers]]'' is one of these guns? Again, this is just a huge revelation for me. I still see no reason to put them under the HK91 entry, simply because if they're meant to be SR9s, just as the converted HK94s are meant to be MP5s, then I think it's appropriate to label them as such.

And, thanks for the Type 56 that looks like the ''[[Goldeneye]]'' ones. If you want to shoot it again with the regular non-blued bolt carrier, that's fine by me. However, I should also point out that the ones in ''Goldeneye'' also have red bakelite magazines, so you might wanna give it one of those, too. Then, you'll have something identical to the ''Goldeneye'' "AKS-74s". But I will still use the picture you have in the meantime. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:15, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

:Hmmm. Yeah, I guess I figured when I noticed the trigger, but I wasn't sure if the gun from ''[[The Replacement Killers]]'' was genuine or not. Was this sort of thing done because real SR9s were too expensive? I figured since the SR9 used to be a readily available civilian "assault rifle", armorers would use it.

:However, if your guns are a fairly accurate representation of the SR9s that have appeared in movies, then it's better that you've given us images of these particular guns. I agree with you that our goal should be to have the most accurate representations of movie guns possible, and since you're an armorer, we can anticipate that yours represent what movies use.-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:15, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

::''only 125 TCs were imported into the entire USA and only 100 T models''

::Wow, it was really that few? OK, that explains everything. I had no idea they were so rare to begin with. Even HKPRO, which has import data for most of the -90 series guns, didn't have that info. Thanks for those numbers.

::Like I've said, I think this means it's good that we have the pics you've taken because they are a very accurate representation of the SR9s actually used in movies. I would recommend you do one of those "Movie Armorer's Notes" in the SR9 section of the G3 page, just like you did for the Colt Commando section on the M16 page, explaining what you've told me. Hope it doesn't bother you that we're unmasking all of the various tricks that you armorers have been using over the years to convince moviegoers they're seeing one gun when it's actually another! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:59, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

==Re: SR9==

I think part of the problem is that there just aren't enough people who take Wikis in general seriously. As far as HK aficionados go, one of my pet peeves is that way too many of them I meet are way too arrogant towards non-HK owners for not being able to appreciate the "Teutonic superiority" (as Larry Correia put it) of HK weapons. Sorry to say that I dunno if you can please some of them no matter what you do. :)

Personally, I accept that there's some stuff that even Hollywood's people have to do in order to make our movie experience satisfactory. Like when we were talking about the ''[[Jarhead]]'' Abrams tanks...it's a necessary evil for Hollywood vehicle wranglers to dress up an English Centurion to look like an M1A1 simply because unless you're Spielberg, it's very hard to get the DoD to lend you a real one for a show. And likewise, in 1984, it was not possible to get real Soviet AKMs, RPG-7s, and DShKs, so the Stembridge armorers had to find the next best thing. But I also enjoy uncovering these tricks simply because I'm an enthusiast of firearms and military equipment in general, so I always like seeing how Hollywood's people think on the fly in adverse circumstances. There's an art to it, no? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:16, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction on the Four Brothers' HK33, it was labeled as a HK41 long before I started editing the page, I just took the screenshot. And also, thanks for the new images, I'm putting up the new M16A2 on pages right now.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 19:34, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

No problem, every image you upload is great. I also have a question, how do you get the pictures so perfect? Because your gun images are probably some of the best, if not the best gun images I ever seen on the internet. And yea, your new camera really does make a difference, the new versions of the images look great. Anyway, good job on your recent images, and can't wait to see your future M16s.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 20:33, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I see, you put alot of effort into your images and that's exactly what makes them great. I agree that alot of gun sites have bad images, some gun books don't have the best pictures either. One problem with some sites is that they also don't use the best examples, like they'll have a picture of gun but it'll have a whole bunch of modifications on it when the unmodified one is what's really needed, and I agree which should replace as many as the old images as possible. And I think visitors do notice your images because if you look at your Remington 870 Riot Model's file page, it has almost 200 views anad it's only been there since Sunday. And good work on the new M4, if you noticed, Hieloco (the user who kept trying to replace your images with "Net" Images) uploaded a version of the ColtM4 file with similar attachments, but yours beats his by by a long shot. And also is that the same M4 you mentioned on MT2008's talk page that the actor dropped? Just wondering.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:40, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

==re:M16A2==

First of all, thanks so much for the new M16A2! The AR15 A2 picture was nice, too, but I just thought it'd be better to have the real deal, and it's nice that we have it now. AlienQueen's already been getting to work on replacing the old M16A2 with the new one, and I'll help out, too. The Luger is another image we needed - and the fact that it's from ''Hogan's Heroes'' is especially cool! As far as the HK91 goes, I didn't notice the shadow, but the new one is fine by me. There's only one that troubles - I think the newer Taurus 85 image is a bit fuzzier compared to the old one.

As far as future stuff goes, I have another recommendation. You know how we have an AR15 section under the M16 rifle page? I'd like to get some more un-modified, basic civvie AR15 variants on there, especially Colt Sporters, because I've seen them used in quite a few movies and TV shows that stand in for mil-spec M16s. We've already got an SP1 with an A2 hand guard that you took for the ''[[Heat]]'' page, but I think we should also have SP1s without the forward assist (both A1 and A2 forearms) and a carbine with a 16" barrel. What do you think? (Sadly, I have added more guns to your to-do list...inevitable.)

And yes, we definitely have some of the best gun pics on the 'Net thanks to you. I must admit I'm still smitten with the fact that Norinco Type 84 pics are basically non-existent in just about any gun image site around (even World Guns, which is usually pretty reliable)...except here. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, one other thing occurred to me, something we need more than the Colt Sporter ARs...do you think you could get some pics of [[Thompson Submachine Gun]]s? All of our Tommy images are jacked from elsewhere on the Net. It's about time they were replaced. Of course, I know we've already given you a ridiculous number of requests, so I won't bug you too much. Thanks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:41, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

==Sergio Leone Trilogy==
I finished the Leone Trilogy yesterday and I was wondering if you could I.D. the machine gun used in ''[[A Fistful of Dollars]]'', someone said it was a fake but wasn't very specific. I figured if it was some type of fake movie gun, you'd know best.

:Also, excellent Single Action Army picture, that's a beautiful gun. Care to tell me a little about the one you uploaded? Thanks. -GM

P.S. Check out [[Last Man Standing]], I just got that done.

Good job on the Luger P08, it looks great. I don't think the finishes are a big deal, to tell you the truth, I don't even notice it. And it's cool that it was used in Hogan's Heroes, because not only is it a special gun, but someone's destined to make a Hogan's Heroes page eventually, and it will be of a great use when someone does. Keep up the great work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 01:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

::Speaking of LMS, his two .45s uniquely have diamond grips and I was wondering if you could take a special picture of A1s with diamond grips. I made a rough draft picture of what I had in mind.
[[Image:CrossM1911A1s-w-diamondgrips-roughdraft.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cross placed, fitted with diamond grips.]]
Let me know what you can do. -GM

==re: Taurus 85 & G3==

Haha...whoops, you're right. I keep forgetting, but...when you upload a new version of an existing image, IMFDB doesn't instantly replace it. Instead, the old image goes fuzzy for a period of time (which seems to vary from hours to days; no clue why) before the new image replaces it. I saw your Taurus Mod 85 pic when it was in this fuzzy "transitional" phase and the thought slipped my mind that this happens. The filter from my brain to my mouth (or rather, my keyboard) doesn't work sometimes, I guess.

As far as the G3 page goes, it is unfortunate. One thing I find annoying about Wikis is that there's apparently no way to confine an image to a particular section of a page when you use the "align" code, so when we follow page conventions and force an image to shift left, right, or center, it totally fucks up the formatting if the images are bigger than the text (which is going to be common for guns that don't have very many movie appearances listed). The only thing you can do is just add lots of space in between each section manually so that the images fit into the section.

But I do agree with you on one thing...why do we need a regular sporter SR9 with the thumbhole stock? Have you seen a movie with one? Do you or any of your fellow armorers have any in stock? Better yet, is there any movie or TV show that would NEED some heavily neutered civilian version of a G3? I kinda doubt it, so I would say it doesn't make sense to include the image. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 06:18, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

:Well, I ditched the other two SR9 pics. Til we get movies with them (and I know I haven't heard of any yet), no point in having them on there.

:Nice that you found those long-barreled AK folders. I'm pretty sure that Vollmer had at least one at sale (years ago, back when their sales site was still online), but they are quite rare in this country indeed. As far as the pics from World Guns go...it's a mix, just like here. Some of them are pics that the site's editors took themselves, others are jacked from other sites, and some are scanned from books or gun rags. I've usually just used them because (before us), they were one of the most comprehensive gun sites on the net. But I definitely think that because of you, IMFDB now has not only good movie gun images, but some of the best gun images, PERIOD.

:Good luck on your current projects, and don't let those idiot Obama-supporting actors fuck up any more of your guns. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:06, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

==The special page==

Remember how a while ago I asked you if I could try making a page that explained to new IMFDB users just how significant it was that we have a movie armorer who photographs his company's guns for us? Well, I finally got around to trying it out. Here it is:

[[MoviePropMaster2008: IMFDB's Own Armorer]]

The title is kinda cheesy, I admit, but it was the best I could think of. The other issue is that I'm not always sure my facts are straight, so if you want to correct anything, go right ahead. And I realize this might be kind of a lame idea - but I just feel it's important for everyone to understand how important your work is to this site. What do you think? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:32, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

:Oh, trust, I fully understand what you mean about wanting to remain anonymous. Even if you weren't a pro-RKBAer working in an industry that is hostile to gun ownership (and non-liberals in general), it would still be perfectly reasonable to want to remain anonymous. When you're a professional of any sort, working in any industry, you don't want to do post something on a web site under your own name that could get you in trouble. As far as the page goes, however, I don't think it should be too big a deal for your anonymity as long as you avoid giving us your name. It's mostly just a way for us to brag that we have someone who can provide us with such great pictures, and to make sure that our new users understand the significance of those pictures. :-) But if you really are uncomfortable with it, that's fine, too...I can ditch it. It took all of 15 minutes to make.

:BTW, I dunno if you're OK telling me this or not (if not I understand), but are you a member of the American Entertainment Armorers' Association? I remember Dan Shea announcing its creation on a forum I used to visit, a couple years ago now. I understand that it was created specifically to address the threat from Cali's gun laws upon your businesses? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:35, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

==More SAAs==
Your Colt Peacemakers are great, my western pages greatly need them. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Be sure to check out [[Hellboy II: The Golden Army]], I just finished it. -GM

==Image use on WIkipedia?==
Hi, I am an editor on the English Wikipedia. I came across this great site as it completes the media appearances lacking in our firearms pages. You've got some fantastic images of some obscure equipment in the idea configuration - that is, clear background and side profile shots. These would really help us illustrate some of our pages that are lacking in media content. Would you be kind enough to allow us to use these images on Wikipedia? We could upload them under an attribution license and provide a link to this Wiki in return. Kind regards, Koalorka from the WP:Firearms teams. [[Special:Contributions/99.232.219.131|99.232.219.131]] 12:09, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

:Any chance of obtaining a response? I can be reached at koalora at rogers.com. [[Special:Contributions/99.232.219.131|99.232.219.131]] 12:09, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

::If you are hesitant or have any further questions regarding licensing, feel free to ask. Wikipedia is by principle an entirely non-profit organization as you are probably aware and we could not compensate you financially for the images. I do recognize that there was some considerable effort involved in collecting some of these rare specimens (still salivating over the CETME Ameli) and then setting up a studio with professional lighting, hardware etc. What we can offer to do is attribute you properly and generate additional traffic and awareness for this site and any other organization you specify (even the armory/studio that owns the firearms). If you agreed to have your images uploaded to our server, every one of them would be licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license that requires the copyright holder to be properly credited every time the image is displayed, in either modified or unmodified form. The license does not impair or restrict your moral rights. Here is the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ license description]. We can do a "test" image so to speak, upload an individual image to see if that satifies your expectations.

:In other words, don't make me beg.. :D At least the Ameli, pretty please.

:Regards.
:: To Koaloarka, I appreciate your kind words and gracious offer. As you can probably tell, I've been thinking about the offer. I'm obviously not jumping at the opportunity or else I would have communicated much earlier than now. I must assess what I've been trying to do for the last six months. Since I joined IMFDB I've been working extraordinarily hard to provide the site with exclusive gun images that are available nowhere else. Everyone here knows the hard work, time and $$ spent on trying to get the best quality images of the weapons available anywhere (on the net). And obviously I do it for the benefit of IMFDB. I'm torn by the upside of increased awareness to the site, but I am also not eagerly anticipating the inevitable diluting of the 'exclusivity' of IMFDB's images when they start showing up everywhere on the web.

:: Some background to my thinking - I would not have done the images for a simple firearms site. I probably would not have worked so hard for six months to get these types of images for a gun wiki. IMFDB's unique focus is that it mixes weapons and CINEMA, especially movie trivia and factoids which are not part of the 'regular gun owner's lexicon. '''That is the field I'm in''', and I welcomed the idea of a place where I can contribute my experience and information (mostly 'lost' on the 'regular firearms crowd'). Many of my images are hybrid guns (M16a2s with A1 features or vice versa), or some of custom guns made for the movies (Custom Type 84s or AMD-65s), or weird combinations of uppers and lowers (like the M16 variants, or the 2 toned handguns,etc). which are not factory standards nor are they historically accurate. I remember once, when a firearms historian and enthusiast looked at some of my handguns (SIG P226s and USPs) and was wondering what was wrong with my barrels. He didn't fathom nor appreciate the fact that these were REAL movie guns. He was just disdainful that they were 'ruined' because of the customization needed for blank firing in movies. Anyway, I was toying with the possibility of a limit release of images with a specific watermark or copyright. I was thinking of using similar but not identical images (but still identifying IMFDB.org as the source of the image) with a translucent copyright logo, but that would take some time. But I have not decided yet and I hope you understand my reluctance at this time. I've only been doing this for six months and I don't think I'm ready right now to 'give away' the work I've done when I'm not complete updating the gun images for IMFDB. Perhaps when I've stopped or retired from getting gun pics for IMFDB ....
::''Now there are some sites who already have MY permission to use some MY images, but each one of those entities provided weapons to be photographed, so they helped me personally with the photography itself. (some FFLs, a few collector friends, other armorers, etc.) So you might see a recognizable shot somewhere else, but they will be watermarked and copyrighted as license granted to that entity.

::Anyway I'm still thinking about it. Give me a little time. I am also conferring with other Administrators of IMFDB and I welcome their input. Ultimately, I will have to make some sort of decision (as the original photographer and copyright holder) as to where I wish to release the rights. Hope that helps.

::[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:31, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

:::I agree with what you say about how many people in the gun-owning community aren't going to appreciate what these guns are if they see them on any random gun site. Like, who the hell is going to understand that in Hollywood, HK91s are converted to look like SR9s, or AR15 SP1 carbines converted to look like XM177s? However, one thing I think you should consider is that some of the guns you've photographed are hard to find pictures of, and your pictures represent not only good "movie gun" images, but good gun images, period. The Type 84 pics you've taken are a very good example, because like I said earlier, good pics of the Type 84 seem extraordinarily hard to come by. The new FG42 image is also one that I think can be considered particularly special.

:::I would say that at the very least, you should consider it on a case-by-case basis; whether the gun image you have stands as both an important gun image as well as an important "movie gun" image. But ultimately, these are your images, so the decision is yours. Take my opinion only for what it's worth. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

::::I was not asking for a blanket-release of your work into the public domain or any such thing, just a few individual photographs of authentic and obscure and unmodified firearms, i.e. the CETME Ameli, FG42. Cheers. [[Special:Contributions/99.232.226.200|99.232.226.200]] 18:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

:::::I KNEW that. But work on Wikipedia WILL be jacked and seen all over the web. And the more removed the image is from the original source (here) the harder it is to force people to remove pirated images on their own sites. I fully intend to slam pirates who steal my images (which is my right), but it's harder when they can say'' "Oh I got it from Wikipedia, who are you? What authority do YOU have to tell me not to use a stolen pic?"'' It might be helpful to make a list of what you are interested in. I am considering creating an alternate image of the same gun with watermarks and attributions for 3rd parties (though it's not something I was planning to do at this time). Let me know your list and we can discuss it. thanks [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:21, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::::::The attribution license is for that purpose specifically, if you are not properly attributed when the image is displayed, that person has violated your rights to the image and is liable for prosecution under international or US copyright laws. Keep in mind that those willing to pirate your images will do so whether or not you agree with it, this will happen at a higher frequency once your sites gains in popularity; by letting Wikipedia use your images, your images will proliferate the net with the proper license, exposing your work and Imfdb.org to the mainstream. Right now, we can do just one image to determine if you'd be satisfied with the end result; how about the Ameli? The CETME Ameli page does not receive too many hits due to the scarcity of the gun. Kind regards. [[Special:Contributions/99.232.226.200|99.232.226.200]] 19:28, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

::Any progress here? You asked for a list, we would just like the AMELI at this time. Regards. [[Special:Contributions/99.232.219.131|99.232.219.131]] 17:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

==Smiths==

Thanks so much for the Smiths, but especially the Model 29! All the ones on the page before now were 629s, and I figured we needed an original blued M29. In fact, it seems almost like blasphemy that this is exactly what Dirty Harry used and we haven't had the right gun until tonight. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 06:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

:Oh, yeah, forgot about that other S&W 29, hehe. But still, an MPM2008 photo of a Smith is always preferable to some random image from Google. And to answer your question - yes, you should feel free to replace old pictures jacked from Google with yours. There's no reason why anyone should complain, because...

:*(A.) Your pictures are always vastly superior to the old ones
:*(B.) It takes no effort to copy an image off the web, whereas taking your own pics is a time-consuming process (especially the way you do it)
:*(C.) You're an administrator now, so you have the final word anyway.

:As far as the other Wiki guy's offer goes, I agree that you should only do it if you can mark the images as your own first, or if they give you proper credit (and link to this site, guaranteeing us more hits :). Come to think of it, it might not be a bad idea to do that with ALL of your gun images from now on, just to make sure that we mark them definitively as ours. But although I like being able to think of your gun images as exclusively IMFDB's, not so sure I like the idea of clamping down on other users. I mean, let's face it, we'd look like hypocrites because many of the images on IMFDB are still jacked from other sites (though this will change eventually, of course). World Guns would probably throw a fit if they saw this site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

:Well, I suppose you're right...if World Guns did ask us to remove all of the images we've used without permission, I would immediately comply with their request. However, you gotta admit that it's still going to be kind of flattering if people decide that IMFDB is a great source of gun images (not just "movie gun" images) and want to use our pics.

:BTW, have you talked to any of the other armorers about IMFDB? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:04, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

==Predator==
I never knew they tend to used A1 muzzle breaks but it does make sense, A1 star flashes look cool (I'm still in awe over the shot when the muzzle flash is out 2ft in each direction)

I hope you don't mind that I edited your pictures together, I just used what I had. I'll just leave them on the page like that until you take some SP1 pics. Thanks. More to come on the Predator page. -GM

Same film different subject. Do you know who mounted the Shotgun under Billy's Rifle. It looks like a Ciener Ultimate only it uses a Mossberg 500 and it's several years before Jane's says such systems came out. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 08:31, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

==Hollow Point==
[[Image:Type84HybridRifle.jpg]]

Thanks for the Type 84S specific to the [[Hollow Point]] page. I really apprieciate it. Was the gun actually used in the movie or do you mean it is made to look the same? -GM

==The Mask==
I have it on my list, so I'll get it done eventually. -GM

Alienqueen11 here, sorry if I got in the way when you were uploading gun images when I was uploading those Resident Evil screenshots. --[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 00:38, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

==Thanks for the new guns==

I really like those new SIGs you uploaded (just ditched the old P220R image and replaced it with yours on all pages), as well as the Type 84 folder and the Madsen M50 (the movie ''[[City of God]]'' features those, so we gotta get that image on that page whenever someone screencaps it).

Also, can you by chance tell me what kind of shotgun this is (from my page for ''[[The Crow]]''):

[[Image:Vlcsnap-269025.png|thumb|none|500px|]]

Who makes that bullpup stock? I think it's a Muzzelite, but I dunno, and a Google search seems to turn up negative for info or images on this gun. I know I've seen it in at least a couple of action movies from the 1990s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:07, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

:Ah, OK, thanks for clarifying the type of gun used to kill Lee. I figured it was the 629 that killed him because I have heard from various articles that the gun was definitely a .44 Magnum, and the character of Funboy uses the 629 throughout the movie. Any idea why they switched to another gun for that one scene? Seems like it would have been identifiable as a continuity error had the scene been finished and Lee had not been killed.

:And don't worry; I do fully appreciate (have heard it many times) that the entire reason that the accident happened was because the production sent the armorer home in order to save money. And I have heard it was the fault of some clueless property assistant(s) who were responsible for the fuck-up that got Lee killed.

:Also, I appreciate the ID on Grange's shotgun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:13, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

==Re:Dibbs==
I didn't think of it that way but I completely understand what you mean. I'll change the word. Dibbs is kind of declaring it is mine, simply saying that a movie is on my to-do list changes it sort of. The only movies I would really want to declare "dibbs" on are the ones I ordered on DVD, even when I own them on VHS already, just so I can screencap them. I'll remove my dibbs messages and just let people know I plan to do it, and if no one else plans to do it, I would like to. "Dibbs" was simply a poor choice of words. It's not like I'm locking the page from someone else to work on though. When Orca1 9904 asked to do [[Tears of the Sun]], I let him. (AQ11 even cut off the widescreen bars now). When you asked to do Rambo III, I let you. (P.S. Let me know if you need me to finish that.) I agree tho, it was a dumb idea.
P.S. I screencapped Iron Man, sorry. -GM

== One more request ==

Hey MPM2008, when I asked for the Beretta 92FS Inox, I happened to notice GM45 asked for a reversed Two Tone Beretta 92FS for use on the [[Sin City]]. If you happen to get ahold of them, I would like to know if you can combine them the factory style way as well and photograph it if you can, because a Beretta like that would be useful for pages such as [[Hostage (2005)]]. Here's a screenshot of the gun in the movie:

[[Image:HostageBerettatutone-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[Image:HostageBerettatutone-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

Thanks in advance.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 01:42, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

That's an awesome shot as always, aAnd you're right that has to be the best shot of the gun on the entire internet. I like it the way it is, and excellent work on your most recent images too, I really like the M16A4. Also, are you still considering the Wikipedia user's offer?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 01:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

==AK-104==
It looks great. The magazine is no big deal. Even with that magazine, you still have the only well-taken AK-104 on the net. Don't worry about fixing it right away, it looks awesome even with the wrong mag. One thing though. You never know when one day a movie could have an AK-104 with a waffle mag so don't just cover over it if you take a new pic. You replaced the MAC-10 with the after market mag with the newer image, but you never know when one could be seen using one. Just a pointer. I'm almost done with [[Hot Fuzz]], then I'm gonna do [[Tropic Thunder]], [[Crank]], [[Shawshank Redemption]], and [[The Dirty Dozen]]. Should have them all done by the end of the month. (With deer season, my job to fix guns has been pulling me away. Plus, I hunt myself on occasion.) Keep up the good work. -GM

:If I use the word "sexy" to describe a gun picture, what does that say about me? LOL.

:I like it. And I agree with Alienqueen; I wouldn't worry too much about the mag. However, I must say that I'm a little more excited about some of the other pics you uploaded while I was at work today...thanks so much for re-doing that Type 56-1 picture for the ''[[Goldeneye]]'' page with the AK-74 muzzle break and plastic mag, and I also really appreciate you getting the Benelli M1 Super 90 (oddly enough, we don't have a page for that gun, for whatever reason). And the new XM177 pic is something we REALLY needed; time to ditch that old XM177 picture we've been using to represent "Colt Commandos" in movies (I think it's actually a Tokyo Marui airsoft replica, anyway).

:But...for now, I must do more GRE studying and personal statements for grad school apps. Sadly, I'm getting way too busy to make regular contributions these days, but real life keeps calling. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

:I wouldn't worry too much about the stock, because if you notice every image you upload always finds a use. There's no telling if a movie will come up with an AK 104 in the same configuration, plus if it's a movie gun, the movie it was used in will have to come up eventually. But if you want to upload a new one, that's entirely up to you.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:50, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

:So finishes can cause that much trouble when combining parts? Makes you wonder how they do it because I see soo many Berettas in wierd configurations in movies, I remember seeing a Beretta 92FS Inox with a black barrel in Kiss of The Dragon. And also, how rare is it to see a two tone Beretta 92FS? Because even if you search it on Google, there aren't many images of one.

And about the FG421, that is one wierd looking gun, is it German made? Because it resembles the MG42's from [[Saving Private Ryan]] a little bit, but I must say the grip dosen't look too comfortable with the way it's positioned. But another great image none the less.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

==FG-42==
Nice piece. It must be rare, I don't ever see them in my typical order books like Southern Ohio Guns or any other vintage firearms catalogs. Like AQ said, I think the grip is positioned ackwardly and seems uncomfortable. Like all the other cool German guns, I can't own it sadly. I don't see why they would make it a paratrooper gun, way too big. Nice pic. Glad you didn't ignore it in the back. -GM

==No Problem==
You're welcome. Despite not being such a great movie, it was quite interesting gun-wise :))

==Taps and Mr. & Mrs. Smith==
I don't own Tapps and have never seen it but I own the Extended Cut of Mr. & Mrs. Smith, which includes a scene with a Mini-gun and cool other things. It is on my list and once my to-do list pile is reduced, I'll get on it. Right now I'm working on Tropic Thunder and The Shawshank Redemption. -GM

==The FG42==

Damn, that thing is beautiful! Reminds me why one can never fail to give the Nazis points for ingenuity when it came to weapons. I seriously want one, along with a Sturmgewehr. Good news though! Have you heard about this? http://www.ssd-weapon.com/engl_web/produkte_en/fg42_en/fg42_en.htm Apparently, they've got civvie reproductions of these guns now! Dunno if/when they'll get imported/manufactured in the States. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:57, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

:Your choice, I guess. Are they being imported to the states yet, though? The site doesn't list a U.S. distributor, and I haven't seen any for sale yet. But yeah, it would be cool to have a picture of a nice new FG42, plus you can get the 2nd version which you told Alienqueen you didn't have.

:BTW, speaking of rare German weapons, do you have access to a Sturmgewehr (either -42 or -44)? There aren't too many movies with them that I'm aware of (besides ''[[Escape to Athena]]''), but they do appear in lots of WWII-themed games. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:51, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

==Remington 870==
Closest thing I can find is this bird gun in [[The Unit]].
[[Image:Unit-Mack'sshotty2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

:I read your story on Brandon Lee, that's tragic. I sometimes make dummy bullets and I ''always'' fire the primers before I reload the bullet. Your supposed to use super glue to make sure the round stays in the brass. Then you go to a wire wheel and polish the brass and get rid of any super glue that seeped out. I wonder why they never made "dud" primers that could look live but not go "bang" when the hammer falls on them. I first made dummy rounds with 8mm rounds for my Kar98k, but I didn't super-glue them in, and eventually they all fell into the shells and got stuck. It sucked. I'm sick with something bad and Tropic Thunder is gonna have to wait because I feel like crap. Have a good day. -GM
==Re:Morita==
Thanks, I'm feeling a little better. I was filling out some of the fictional firearms pages and I figured of all of them, you'd like the Morita page since I remembered you said you owned one. I deleted my page because yours came out better than mine. You know more about the movie any way, I have yet to see it fully and last time I saw it was too long ago to remember. -GM
:Nice SMLE pic! And I forgot to mention, the Colt Navy is beautiful. -GM

==Bankok Dangerous==
You made the page look much better now. Your shots are ''far'' clearer than mine. Thanks. -GM

==Tropic Thunder==
A Sporter II pic would be much apprieciated. To test the whole blank safety distance, I tested various blank calibers to a piece of paper and found 10 yards to be the ''dead zone''. Since I'm trying to make a movie with a few friends of mine (maybe something to show a film school), I'm going to use some blanks and want to know my limits. Obviously, since I'm the only one with true experiance and weapons intelligence, I'll be handling the blanks, post-production edits on my computer will fill the rest. I'll try my best to make them look like they know what their doing with guns, but they are pretty dumb. If you have any movie making tips, please let me know.
:P.S. I plan to make it a DVD and might even screencap it as a section on my profile. -GM

==Re:590==
Go for it, fine by me. Your pics are always better than what we find on google. -GM

==The new Cobray M11 picture==

The new Cobray M11/9 picture looks really cool! Thanks so much for that! Also, do you think it's appropriate to classify the M11/9 under the MAC-10 page? I have been thinking about giving that guns its own page for a while now. What do you think? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:02, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

:First of all, I completely missed the MAC-11. I've just been getting busier and busier (currently at work - on a Saturday! - indexing prior art PDF files now), and you upload so many images that I've missed a few here and there. I did like the SG550, though, and the the AMD-65 pics were also something nice (it's cool that you found the same style BFA as the Israelis). But that Type 56 is just...ugh, who the hell treats a nice gun that way? (in Africa or Afghanistan, sure, but not here in the states!) It's odd because I had no clue that the Type 56 was imported to the U.S. back when Uncommon Valor was filmed (82-83). I remember hearing it wasn't until 1984 that they reached these shores.

:As far as the Cobray page goes, I know what you mean about the mistake, but then again, we have the [[Taurus PT92]] page separate from the Beretta 92 page even though the PT92 is commonly mistaken for the 92F. The best thing to do would put a note at the top of the page suggesting people look at the Cobray page just in case.

:Appreciate the effort on the Thompson pics...like I said, we REALLY need some good ones. I hate the fact that someone put an Auto-Ordnance semi-auto Thompson clone with a long barrel to represent an "M1921". Also, from now on, whenever you upload pictures, please do the same thing you did with the Cobray; just upload them as a new version over the old ones. The way, we don't have to go back and replace the old image with your new image on every single page that has the old one. And like I said before, nobody should mind if you get rid of the old images, because yours are always better and you're an admin anyway. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:55, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

::Yeah, it makes sense, what you're saying. Were the Type 56s from ''[[Deer Hunter]]'' also the same as the ones from ''[[Uncommon Valor]]''? I mean, let's face it...you don't see that many Chinese AKs (or AK-type firearms, period) in American movies before about the mid-80s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:26, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

==That Type 56==
Holy shit, who handled that gun to make it that FUBAR?! One of my main jobs in my dad's shop is to clean up guns, so I understand how horrible that is. Mail it to me, I'll clean it up. -GM

Woah, that thing looks like it's 70 years old with every thing it been through. What did they do to it? I'll give it credit for one thing, that's a very good example of how durable and rugged an AK type assault rifle can be, especially with that kind of treatment.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:25, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

==Couple of questions regarding Walther pistols==

1) Has the current-generation P99 been converted or modified into a movie blank-firing gun that you know of? I ask because I see on the back cover of one of Wesley Snipes' DTV movies that he's holding one that appears to be a new-model P99, but it also looks like they took an UMAREX airsoft model and painted the tip black. Insight?

2) Word on a couple of forums is that the Walther PPS makes an appearance in Quantum of Solace, wielded by Olga Kurylenko. If possible, could you confirm? --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 02:41, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

::I don't know, but I will keep it in mind when I ask around. MPM2008

==Request==

[[User:Revolver|Revolver]] here
Just curious, could you get a good picture of the M4s used by the Air force in Iron Man? The ones with the ISM-V Scopes?
Possibly other pictures from the movie? Like the G36Ks and G36Cs?
::I'll add it to the gigantic list of things to do. best regards. MPM2008

==.577 Rifle==
That would be awesome. Do you think you could one pic before he mounts a scope and one when he does? You'd have the best picture of such a rifle on the internet. [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]] 00:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

== Another Request ==

I was wondering, would it be possible for you to get your hands on a stainless steel [[Jericho 941]]? There's at least a couple pages here such as ''[[The Kill Point]]'' and ''[[Transporter 2]]'' that could benefit from it. I'm also still waiting for a 1st-gen [[Glock#Glock 19|Glock 19]] (or whichever version of the 19 it is that doesn't have rails on the frame). Thanks in advance. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)Orca1_9904
:I didn't know it was an order, rather than a request (re the Glock) and I don't have a 2nd gen of my own or I would have posted it already. I have to track down someone with one and take the time to do the photoshoot, a real hassle BTW. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:25, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

== About Png ==
Hi, for some strange reason VLC does not catches screenshots in jpg, only in png. In the future I will convert them in jpg before uploading. [[User:Fimvit|Fimvit]]

==Re: Goldeneye==

That's fine. In all honesty, it's a bad habit that I'm afraid I have, and I seem to be influencing other forum members to do it even though it does ruin the "encyclopedic" format of the pages, as you've said. I'll try to remember in the future; bad habits die hard for me. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

== Re: ==

I know, I had already changed the settings. Regardless, it takes the snapshots in png. Can't figure out why...
Kind regards [[User:Fimvit|Fimvit]]

==Crank==
Hahahahahahaha, Blu-ray. I can't afford half a Blu-ray player. I'm still using DVDs, I guess this one just looks a little better. I've noticed some people use png files now, but they take too long to load and if you click on the image, it's just as clear as a jpg, so that's what I use. Thanks. Sorry I'm taking so long with it, I keep getting sidetracked. Go check out AQ11's profile talk and see my list of movies in my pile. Ugh. It's gonna be a long month. -GM

==Thanks==

Thanks so much for the new images (i.e. the USAS-12), and thanks for getting the Benelli shotgun page in order. It really needed an overall badly, and it's crazy that we never even had an entry anywhere for the M1 series before now. Also, nice work on ''[[Ultraviolet]]''; I've had that DVD in my collection for a while, but, like a lot of movies, simply never got around to capping it. No matter; yours are better than mine would have been.

Hope you've had a great Thanksgiving! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:48, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

:Yeah, I agree, the Molotov cocktail doesn't need a page. This is the Internet Movie ''Firearms'' Database, not the Internet Movie ''Weapons'' Database. Also, dunno if you saw, but some anonymous user tried to delete your user page, and has thus been nuked. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:14, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

::Oh, yeah, almost forgot...I'm not really sure how to see page views besides going to "Special Pages" (under Toolbox on the left side) and there's a "Popular pages" section, but that's not quite what you need... -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:41, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

==Re: Molotovs==
I understand what you mean fully but many pages link to the Molotov page and it's one of those mistakes that kind of has to be there now. I'm making [[The Whole Nine Yards]] as we speak and that had a molotov. I don't think it is a weapon deserving a spot but too many pages already have it and it's just easier if it is there. [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]] 22:58, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

==Question about the SIGs from Double Team==

First of all, nice job so far on the ''[[Double Team]]'' page, even though it's not yet complete.

Anyway, I was looking at this picture:

[[Image:DoubleTeam-Gun-WallA.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

What type of laser controls are those on the grip of the SIGs? I ask because I've seen the same setup on a SIG P228 that Denzel Washington uses in the movie ''[[Virtuosity]]'', and I was wondering who makes it. Or was it something done just for both movies? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

==The Thompsons==

YES! They're awesome. Thanks so much...we ''really'' needed some good pics of Thompson SMGs. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:12, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

== Response (Sorry for being late) ==

Thanks for wishing me a Happy Thanksgiving, I hope you had a great one as well. As for improvised weapons, I agree with you, Propane tanks even though they were made to be bombs shouldn't be listed as weapons. But I agree the molotov should stay since it's already a page for it and it's on quite a few pages. Also good work on Starship Troopers, the page looks great, and the Thompson pictures are great as well. Keep up the good work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:05, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

==Thompson==
Sounds good to me, we need some Thompsons. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]] 21:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

:Please, in the future, never hesitate to replace the old pics with yours. Yours are always better, plus when you just upload over the old ones, we don't have to replace the gun pics on each movie/TV/video game page individually. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

== Good Job ==

Good job on replacing all the [[Thompson]]s, the new pictures look great. Also, are you still going to upload an M16A3? And also did some of the M16 type guns you uploaded come from Iraq? I mean like the M16A4, and the M4A1 with the scope and RIS Foregrip.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:02, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

==Taegukgi==
I can barely stand anime let alone flash animation shorts. I think it disrespects the hard work we do to screencap movies (and you great efforts to make sure we have images galore) and we have a page for some little short? I don't see why someone would watch it and wonder "Would someone like to know what guns are used in this?" Maybe if someone froze and capped the short it MIGHT be acceptable.

P.S I've been working on [[Wanted]] for 2 days, there are so many guns and continuity errors (guns switch to others in seconds), it is driving me crazy. While most I can figure out, some user input such as your own would be much apprieciated. I feel like I'm lying to the people who read my message at the top of the page that says "I'll have it done today" and can't because I busy. I hope they all understand. I'll make sure I give them the excellent page they've been waiting for (and get rid of the abismal bootleg images). - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:I think at the very least, a re-direct is in order. The flash animation should be something like "Taegukgi (Flash Animation)". But personally, I'm really kinda skeptical of including stuff that's not professional media. Next thing we know, any kid who makes action movies with his friends and their airsoft guns is gonna try and make an IMFDB page. This is an even bigger problem with mods for first-person shooter games, because there are lots of user-made mods on the 'Net.

:That reminds me...when I get done with the GRE, I need to get the FAQ done that I've been meaning to do. Once I draft it, I would like all the Admins on here to take a look, and we should all agree on particular terms. In it, I will specify rules on stuff like including Flash Animation. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:19, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

::Agreed. I have already warned several users that I will not allow images from bootleg copies of movies not out on DVD to be posted on IMFDB, but I missed ''[[Tunnel Rats]]'' because I had no idea what it was or when it was coming out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

::I also think Anime is ok because it is something licienced, and more official. It's like saying Anime is to films and TV shows is to Flash and Fan made shorts with their home cameras and posted on youtube. I mean, should we start looking up shorts that people film themselves and then upload on Youtube? I don't think so. It's annoying, kinda insulting and a waste of time at the same time to even think of it. I do some of the Anime because I believe how they draw the weapons make them worthy of mention and images worth showing to see how real they drew them. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Care to take a look at my RE:E movie page? ==

Since no one did this page since the DVD release, I decided to do so. I need some check ups cause I always have a hard time telling Taurus from Beretta. Also see if you can ID the Cobray M11 for me if it is one. The previous guy posted up and even I thought it was an MP7 until I looked closer. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

*''[[Resident Evil: Extinction]]''

== I can't be nice anymore ==

Someone has to draw the line. This guy Don whatever. He just posted a NEW flash animation on this site. What the hell? I've see the pics or trash that resembles pictures of guns and he thinks those are what they are? Is he high or some punk kid that thinks it's so cool that it deserves to be on this site. Sift Head and that other flash animation thing, Taegukgi. Those are pardon my language, pieces of shit that are NOT worthy of this place that some of us hold with respect. Yeah, they seem entertaining, but if we decide to let something this slide, then whose to stop from putting other flash animations that have "drawings" of guns on them because "Oh they have guns, so therefore they should be on this site". I want to remove it, but I like a majority vote instead of me acting pissed of. I'm asking everyone else their thoughts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:05, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

== My airsoft ==

So what do you think of my airsoft? I know a lot of people have a bad idea about what airsoft is, so what do you think? I'm a guy who likes to show off sometimes, that's one reason why I ask since I've updated pictures on my page, but more to ask what others think, particularly people who are more into firearms. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:34, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

:Just the same, I know you can tell my ONE Glock is real over the others listed that aren't. I don't go to the range as often as I want. Bullets are expensive and so is renting time on the range closest to me. I only play with Airsoft because it's the only time where I get to shoot people and not feel the slightest remorse whatsoever. I'm killing them in a manner of speaking. I have ran into the types of guys that only knows Airsoft brand names. I on the other hand am really interested in the real life counter parts that inspires Airsoft, this is where I found out so much info on real guns...but I still have trouble telling Berettas from Taurus and between shotguns sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:23, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

== FN FAL ==

Could take a picture of an FN-FAL?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:04, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

==Re:Predator==
Thanks, it wasn't on my list but I saw the page was incomplete so I made time for it. Sorry I edited your pictures, but it looks better than an empty spot for now.

Also, excellent job with the Uzi pic, it looks great. I too never liked that Uzi pic before. I just finished screencapping [[Unforgiven]] so be sure to check that out. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Winchester 1866 "Yellow Boy"==
Do you think you could check your armory for a [[Winchester 1866 "Yellow Boy"]] rifle? Also, a lot of the ones in films are used as Henry rifles by removing the forend, the advantage being the lack of a spring follower pinching the shooter's hand. So if you do find a Yellow Boy, could you remove the forend and snap a shot of that as well? Thanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== H&K USP and H&K MK 23 ==

Could you replace the pictures of the H&K USP .45 and the H&K MK23 with better images. Thanks.

==Type 84 Target/Match==

So you finally got to take pictures of them. Nice! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:19, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

And thanks for the new .308 Valmet. Those appear in lots of movies, so I can use it on my ''[[Hard Target]]'' and ''[[The Negotiator]]'' pages.

==The HK94/MP5 conversion==

Thank you so much for this! I wanted it as much as GM did. Where did you find it? And you've actually confirmed already that it's one of the ''[[Air Force One]]'' MP5s? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:38, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

:Nah, of course that doesn't ruin it. If it's a movie gun, and it's the same type of conversion seen in those action movies from the 1980s and 90s, it's fine by me. It's the same ''type'', and that's more than enough for us. As far as Jedi Mind Powers, yeah, I guess I got something like that. Actually, I've just been glued to Facebook extending Christmas wishes to people most of today, and I check IMFDB pretty regularly. Also was working on ''[[24: Redemption]]'' earlier today.

:As far as your watermarking idea goes, I encourage it. However, there may be some way to actually disable right clicking on just your images so people can't save them to their HDs and re-post them later. Or, there may be a way of embedding copyrights into them. Not sure. But we'll figure out something. Asking Bunni about this would be the way to go, I think.

:Hope you've had a great Christmas. Over here on the East Coast, I've only got 1 hr. left before it ends, but you're in Cali, so I guess you still get a few hours left to enjoy today. And thanks for all the wonderful Christmas presents you've given IMFDB (again, I appreciate the HK94, the M78, and the long-barreled Type 84s). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:08, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

:The HK94 is great, I felt really bad chopping your pictures. Now I can get rid of them. And I read about your water marking idea. You should put one of your own personal insignias and maybe an imfdb logo. I hope you had a happy holiday. I got lots of movies to screencap including [[The Great Escape]]. I'm going to buy Romeo + Juliet and a few other gun movies with the money I got as well. I'm stilling working on Starsky and Hutch right now though. Great work with Stripes btw, I loved that movie. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Terminator 2 page==
What do you think of the T2 page? Did I over do it on the "fun facts"? As far as the guns go, did I get my info right? Colt Commandos are kind of hard to ID for me. Hope you have a happy new year. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==re: the images==

First, thanks again for the new images. It's nice to have a USP45 (especially since ''[[Collateral]]'' is one of the more popular pages on here, and Tom Cruise used one in that movie). The FNC is another nice one to have. Did you ever find out if the ''[[Heat]]'' FNCs were chopped-down Sporters with auto sears and M16A1 flash hiders installed, as you suspected?

As far as copyrights go...yes, it was inevitable. I know people have been talking about IMFDB and its images on quite a few gun forums, but I had no clue anybody would have the audacity to take your images and claim them as their own! How has your electronic tagging worked? Any particular software you used? The last time you and I discussed watermarking, I did a quick search for software that might be used. I found this: http://www.filetransit.com/view.php?id=10611 . But if you have a better one, that works, too. I do think you should start getting the images tagged ASAP, because I don't think people should be stealing your stuff. I still do worry somewhat about the "hypocrite" accusations, though, but as long as you keep getting new images up, especially for well-known guns (like ARs, H&Ks, AKs, Glocks, 1911s, etc.), those cries will have little validity.

Anyway, sorry to add to your growing list, but I have another request. I recently did a major re-vamp on the [[Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series]] page, which used to be called just the "L96A1" page. All of the gun images I have on there now are jacked from Remtek's Accuracy International site, which I hated doing, but had no other choice. If you get a chance to photograph ''any'' of the AW rifles in your company's inventory, I'd be most grateful. I'm especially interested in the basic AW and the AWP (because my ''[[Jericho (TV series)|Jericho]]'' page has the latter), but anything else you have in stock would be great. Thanks so much for all your hard work. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:55, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:The USP-45 looks great. As MT said, it will work well on the Collateral page (especially because I'm going to be adding shots to it later) and the FNC is excellent. Bravo. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::Check IMDB for gun-heavy movies (you won't find specific IMDB forum topics in a Google search). It's very common now to see somebody ask a question about a gun in a movie and some other forum user will point them to us. Last one I recall looking at was "Hitman" where somebody mentioned us. I have also seen people make topics about us on everywhere from the AR-15.com to the 1911 forum to the Firing Line.

::As far as reactions go, sorta mixed. Some people draw attention to our mistakes (and let's face it - we had a LOT, especially before you came in), others say we're neat. However, there don't seem to be a whole lot of folks so far who understand the fact that our images are exclusive to us - which is another reason why your watermarking is such a good idea. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 06:22, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Hey MPM2008, I just wanted to say thanks for all your recent pictures, I really like the USP 45, and the Mossberg 590 Mariner. Thanks to you, Imfdb now has genuine pictues of all three calibers the USP is available in. Keep up the excellent work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:01, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

==Screencaps==
I was trying not to do too many shots in Commando since I didn't want to muck up your page but I didn't know your limit was 4. I add so many shots usually because they illustrate different users and different scenes. I don't try to spoil the story but I try to run a path with my images. I was trying to respect your format more than how many screencaps (you'll see I kept the calibers after each description like you do and kept the size image under 600px. I'll admit that LMS had too many shots but don't hold that on me every time I go a little over on my screencapping. Hope you had a happy new year. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Re:Finally Got It!==
The AKMS pistol looks great. Nice work. I just finished ''[[The Mist]]'' and ''[[X-Men Origins: Wolverine]]''. Now I'm gonna work on ''[[Van Helsing]]''. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Re:Finally Got It! ==

That is one Sweet AK! Is that the actual gun used in the movie? Happy New Year By the way.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 07:01, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

== Re:Finally Got It! ==

It looks awesome! Where did you find? Is it one of Cinema Weaponry's guns, as I suspected? Also, that gun appeared again this past summer in ''[[Pineapple Express]]'', so I added it to that page. But nice job. And Happy New Year! Thanks for the wonderful gifts you have given us! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

==Rambo==
I noticed you are adding some new shots to Rambo. Do you think you could grab some shots of his knife and bow, since all the othe Rambo pages have them. If you can't, I'll do it eventually. If you can, note that he has two knives. His mini machete that Stallone actually made for the movie and the knife from Rambo II. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==The Auto 9==

You had access to the Auto 9? Wow, I had no idea they had any of them intact after all these years. Of course, ''[[Sin City]]'' features one, but theirs was actually a modified 92FS, not a 93R. How did you get your hands on this thing? Whatever...nice job, and thanks for the awesome pic. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

== RE: Finally Answering your questions ==

I understand now, thanks for the reply. So you can basically make it look like any kind of M16 if you have the right parts, anyway I can't wait to see your C7. Also, are you uploading more Mossbergs? Because if you want, I can edit the Mossberg 500 with the Heatshield out of the Comparision picture and upload it if want me to:

[[Image:MossbergComparisonMain.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|]]

But if you prefer to upload your own image, it's okay.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:07, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

About the Mossbergs, So you do want me to edit it out? Anyway, A simple Mossberg 500 with a High Capacity magazine tube to replace this image would be nice:

[[Image:50577.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Mossberg 500 - 12 gauge]]

Also, if you can get an image of a Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip like the one in [[Training Day]] it would be apprecited. Thanks.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

== Mossberg 500 ==

Hey MPM2008, I cropped and edited the comparison image, and uploaded the Mossberg 500 with the heatshield as a seperate image. I just want to want to know if it's okay before I add it to the page. I wrote that it belongs to you in the image description. What do you think?

[[Image:Mossberg500withHeatShield.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

Thanks, I tried to make it looked as much like one of yours as possible. I'll put on the page now. Feel free to edit or overwrite it whenever you like.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:30, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

==The PT92C==

Thanks for this! I just put it on the ''[[Hard Boiled]]'' page. I'm guessing it might even be the same one seen in ''[[Gates of Hell (1995)|Gates of Hell]]''. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

==Re: 24 Redemption==

Yep, I understand. I was just giving a reason to everyone why I was. I realize you wouldn't make that mistake. I think the page used to have the USPc simply because it appears on the DVD cover, before I screencapped it and generally gave it a huge overhaul. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:53, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

==Thanks for the new FALs!==

They look great! We can always use more. Only question is...do you by chance have a picture of a 50.61 like the gun from ''Heat''? (or rather, something that looks like one)

The new Mossberg Bullpup also looks good. While I liked the one with the extended magazine tube, I like this new one better, simply because the standard models without the extended tube seem to be the ones which appear in movies most often. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:52, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

:Excellent, that 50.61 is perfect. Thanks again! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:24, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

==Trapdoor Springfield==
Thanks for uploading pics of the Trapdoor Springfield rifles, they complete a few of my pages better. I added your pictures to those pages as well.

I've been working on ''[[The Dirty Dozen]]'', have you seen it? I have the guns down but I've only seen the movie twice and don't know all 12 guy's names. If you have, can you help me out with that? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== RE: Above ==
I am sorry in advance for the language I am about to use but this douche Gunmaster45 completely erased the "Dirty Dozen" page I had ALREADY created. Not a single piece of the page I had created still exists. Admin or not where does this asshole get off destroying a page I worked on???

==Help with ''Transformers'' 1911 pistol ID?==

Hey, I was wondering if you could take a look at the M1911 being used by Captain William Lennox ([[Josh Duhamel]]) in my screenshots of ''[[Transformers]]'' and see if you could ID it? It appears to be a mostly standard M1911 pistol but has a Kimber-style hammer and slight beavertail to the grip safety. Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 08:00, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

: Just took another look at the M1911 page and it almost looks like the [[M1911 pistol series#Colt XSE|Colt XSE]], only the weapon in the film lacked the second set of cocking serrations at the front of the slide. What do you think? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:59, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

==Re:KIN93==

Not really. He has been warned before this, so being a bit frustrated is understandable. And yes, I agree that being released in theaters does not justify using bootlegs, and will certainly still be noticed by any studio police on the prowl. After all, if a movie hasn't been released on DVD yet, there's no way to get screenshots other than bootlegging. And that's why it's unacceptable. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:45, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

== About the images on the Predator 2 page ==

Could i replace them?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:28, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

==Screencaps==
I've been trying to cut back on the amount but I have my specific way I make my pages. I don't just tell what guns are used. I tell you what guns are used, who uses them, goofs, and fun facts. It makes the page a little larger but I like to think of it as being thorough, more like an article then just a "page". Since we have pages for actors, guns, and films/TV, it is good to show you the info. Sometimes I just can't pass up good shots. If you notice on my Last Man Standing page, the shot is either good, or is telling information. I understand that some of my pages are cluttered, but I've been doing my best to keep them organized. My limit now is usually ten or less images, but I sometimes have to makd exceptions. You are free to remove screencaps I add if you find them to be to many on one of ''your'' pages. You are free to do whatever you want to your own pages, if I add something you find it not needed, you have the right to remove it. I took some of the Mini 14 shots off your ''[[Commando]]'' page for that reason. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I was looking at the [[Rambo (2008)]] page and saw some of the changes you made. As always, I was a little sad to see those images you removed go but it is your page and your right. While I understand the removal of the shot of the soldier sent airborne by the .50 caliber (I just thought it was worth noting how dumb "movie logic" can get, but it doesn't have a gun in it, so it is not needed), but why did you remove the shot of Diaz with his FN FAL Carbine? I thought it was a pretty clear shot.

I just added some shots to [[Flashpoint]] and soon I'm going to do [[Get Smart]] and a revamp on the Matrix series (the three films and that awful Animatrix) since I bought the four pack DVD - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Thanks! ==

Thanks for your comments about my pictures from [[The Sting]]; it's always been one of my favorite movies (despite its use of suppressed revolvers!) Feel free to make the screencaps any size you feel appropriate, I appreciate your comments and interest! - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]

== A little help ==

I just started my [[Police Story 3: Supercop]] page, but I need some help IDing some of the guns. Can you give me a hand? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:36, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Question About Bond Actor Category ==

I was wondering, in the "James Bond Actor" category page, should we limit it to actors who've played James Bond himself, or should we allow 'supporting' actors such as Bond girls (ie, [[Halle Berry]] & [[Honor Blackman]]) and villians (such as [[Robert Carlyle]] & [[Gert Fröbe]])? I'm proposing this to several admins and would like to get some feedback on this before making a decision. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Screencap limit? ==

Hey, I was just looking at some of my own pages and seeing that I tend to really really overdo it with screencaps (which makes some pages take way too long to load). I was just wondering if you know what a good suggested amount might be for the same gun? Thanks - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]
:That sounds like a very good amount for each. I'll try and go through some of my pages (especially ''[[Dillinger (1973)]]'' and ''[[Bonnie and Clyde]]'') and reduce some of the redundancy. I'll keep it in mind from now on. Thanks for getting back to me so soon! - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]

==Hi!==

Sorry I haven't been on IMFDB in a few days. To answer your question: It's not so much that life is kicking me in the ass, it's mostly that I'm in Washington, DC right now without my laptop. Even though I didn't vote for Obama, I came here for his inauguration, mostly because my Mom is a big fan, and because my boss got us the tickets, and well...you know, I do try to do nice things for Mom, even if I don't like the guy she helped elect President. Plus, I got several days off from work, which is always nice.

I should be back tomorrow, and I'll catch up on everything I've missed for the past few days. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:16, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

==Request==

I really like how you edit those jacked pics and make them look so much better. So, I figured I'd ask...if you get time, do you want to edit this pic of a Gen 1 Glock 19 that we've been using on several pages?

[[Image:Wviewpoint 0430.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Glock 19 9mm]]

If you get around to it, cool, but I realize it might be a while. It could use some removal of white space and shadows, and any other touch-ups you can do. Thanks! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:58, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

:Ah, alright, well, that's fine then. Just figured I'd ask because I thought I remembered you telling Orca that you didn't have a Gen 1 Glock 19 in stock at the time, and I wasn't sure if that had changed recently. And yes, DC was a whole lotta fun...until I had to go to the party where all the people from my firm were celebrating the inauguration. Try being the only Libertarian in a room full of mindless liberal douchebags and it's quite awkward. I loved how they were all clapping and cheering even when Obama was saying things that weren't really all that profound or moving. I don't think it matters how good or bad Obama turns out to be as President...this Stalin-esque cult of personality around the man is something I will never get used to. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:21, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

::It looks WAY better. Only thing is, next time, please just upload a new version over the old one. Thanks for doing this. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:55, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

::By the way, is there really a difference between the T3 AKMS pistol and the ones from Rambo and Pineapple Express? I keep comparing photos and I still can't see the difference in barrel length. The only thing I see is that the Rambo one may or may not have a smooth receiver cover (like the standard Type 56) instead of the AKM-style ribbed. And the True Lies gun is a different one entirely. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:03, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

==Rambo (2008==

Just to give you a heads up I changed the info on Rambo M2 Brownings. I talked to Kevin @ ISS about them and he told me they were M2. He was with the show in Thailand working on the 50's. As for the designation AN/M2 was used by the military to discribe the Browning Aircraft gun both 50cal and 30cal unitl 1944 it was changed in September 44 to M2 Aircraft. Thanks. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

== Thanks ==

Thanks for the new 870, It looks amazing. Even the color of the stock and pump match the gun in the movie, excellent work. So are you working on the ghost ring version right now or still looking for the accessories? Either way, I'm sure it'll be worth the wait. Thanks again, and keep up the great work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:10, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

==M1-C Garand==
Beautiful M1-C, thanks for uploading it. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Browning M2==
That is definately useable! It's great! I was going to ask that you replace the M2 pic but figured you had enough to do already. You might want to take a picture of it on a pintle mount though because that is the most commonly seen .50 in films. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:I like your picture! If you can do the pintle mount, great, but right now, I'm just happy we have a picture of an M2 at all that we can call our own. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:11, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

== Browning M2 ==

Thanks for the M1 Garand info, that picture helped me alot, I now understand how the scope and gun work. As for the M2, That is definitely a usable picture, it's excellent! .50 cals are huge, and I would say that type of format is perfect for them. If you want my photo wishlist again, it is these besides the ghost ring 870:

Beretta 92FS Inox

Two Tone Beretta 92FS (If you're able to combine the parts)

Heckler & Koch Mark 23 ("SOCOM")

And if it's possible, can you obtain a U.S Military issue Beretta M9, I know it's very much the same as a Beretta 92FS, but I heard there were some slight differences, and it would go great with the M9A1 you uploaded before. But if you can't get ahold of it, it's okay. The 870 and the Beretta 92FS Inox are the main things I want. Thanks.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 19:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind the M9 actually, MT2008 is right. We don't need it.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 20:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

==Re: Help on Alex Reid==

Looks like my Jedi Mind Powers are at work again. Creepy, eh?

Alex Reid uses several types of weapons in ''[[Ultimate Force]]''. She uses a SIG-Sauer P226 in at least a couple of episodes. In the episode where the SAS goes against the IRA, she uses an MP5KA1 to shoot at the terrorists during the ambush, and later briefly has a Glock 17 (the same one you see being pointed at her) before the bad guy takes it away. In the season 1 finale, she is given a PPK, but never gets to fire it herself. In another episode where the SAS goes after a Christian cult, she has an MP5SD3. In the season 2 finale where Red Troop goes to South Ossetia, she uses an FN Minimi. Here are some pics from the ''[[Ultimate Force]]'' page:

[[Image:Vlcsnap-77839.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Caroline Walsh ([[Alex Reid]]) unloads a SIG P226 at French special forces in Episode 2.1, "Communication".]]
[[Image:Vlcsnap-136363.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Captain Caroline Walsh ([[Alex Reid]]) firing an FN Minimi in Episode 2.6, "Dead Is Forever".]]

Only problem is, these don't really show her face that clearly, so you can't tell who she is. I'll see about getting others... -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:23, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I think I got one. Give me a sec to cap it. Season 1, and the episode was "Just a Target" [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:34, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, just remembering, in season 1, forgot which episode, she is seen with a full length double barrel shotgun, but never fires it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:34, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Here's the pic of her with her SIG

[[Image:UFCWalsh.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

== Wikipedia pirate? ==

Hi, I requested several images from you a while back, but there appears to be an editor on Wikipedia going by the name Josh Woolstenhulme who appears to be uploading some of your gun photos and claiming to be the author. Here are his uploads: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Josh_Woolstenhulme

If this isn't you, just a heads up.

[[Special:Contributions/99.232.226.200|99.232.226.200]] 21:31, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

::Thanks. He IS stealing images. A quick pass and I noticed these.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Simonov-Russian-SKS45.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/10/M1_Garand.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/M1903Mark1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/AKMRifle.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/SMLE.jpg

so how do I complain and get these down?

:I'm not a Wikipedia member at present (I usually post anonymously), but it seems this user is already setting himself up to get your images removed. Note on the AKM image, it now says this:

:''This image or media does not have information on its copyright status. Unless the copyright status is provided, the image will be deleted after Friday, 6 February 2009. Please remove this template if a copyright license tag has been added.''

:But you should keep working with Koalorka to make sure your stuff isn't being taken, because I'm afraid I dunno what to do besides leave requests on a moderator's talk page. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

::Yes, that was me that put up the warning tags. All violating images have now been removed and the pirate warned. Thanks again for the Ameli, you can find the article [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CETME_Ameli here]. [[Special:Contributions/99.232.226.200|99.232.226.200]] 16:46, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

==My requests==
I don't have much but here's a few I thought of:

* [[MG42]]

* [[MG34]]

* [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] with/without 33 round mag

* I mentioned before how I'd really like a [[Winchester 1866 "Yellow Boy"|Winchester 1866]] with the forearm and without it fro when they mimick Henry rifles in movies.

* Any western guns are great, I'm one of the few who can apprieciate them (since about 90% of the western pages are mine)

* We still need a [[Mossberg 500]] with wood furniture for pages like ''[[Heat]]''

* Some more [[Desert Eagle]]s. The images are all .50AEs, we need some .44s and .357 DEs. We also need a black model.

* [[RPG-7]] (still using that ugly picture taken off google)

* [[M60]] series machine guns

That's all I got for now. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::Was the extra holding that M60 an extra or someone well known? By the way, I could never do your job. The idea of so many idiots handling and breaking my guns would drive me to insanity. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Good Luck ==

I would like to wish you good luck on your most recent business trip, and I hope you have a good time or try to, and thanks for notifying us about it. Also, sorry to put more requests on your list, but can you look around for these as well?:

* Browning Automatic Rifle or B.A.R

* Mossberg 500 with High Capacity Magazine tube

* Mossberg 590 with Ghost ring sights (I think this is what the Remington 870 on the [[Hostage]] page really is, and I seen them in movies such as The Last Castle)

* M1 and M1A1 Thompson

Thanks, and I wish you the best of luck on your trip.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:20, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

:Have fun! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:53, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

==Revolvers==
I have a question. I know auto pistols need to be milled and threaded to fire blanks but do revolvers need to be modified to fire reliably? I once had some acorn crimped .45 LC blanks which I put through a SAA. The primers backed out from a lack of recoil and the gun locked up. I tried putting it though a Colt M1917 and it hardly fired unless I angled it right. I've seen in movies how some of the firing pins are removed from the hammers (like the S&W 36 from ''[[Running Scared]]''). If they do need to be modified, could you tell me how exactly? Thanks.

P.S. If we have any more things to add to your list, can we just add them directly or should w ask you first in discussion? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::I also forgot to ask, what movie was the M60 used on? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Push==
Have you seen the trailers for the new movie ''[[Push]]'' coming out soon? I'd screencap the hi-def trailer but my computer is too slow to do it right. If you're free, could you give it a look? I'd rather you made a page with HD trailer shots than some anonymous user making an empty page. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==RE: Got a gift for you! ;) More coming==
You are awesome! These guns are great! I'll be sure to add them to the page. I'm going to have to go back and snap a shot of Ace with an SAA (they didn't show him too clear but I think I can find one). I can't wait to see what else is coming. Thanks! - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I'm glad to see you've gotten more famous guns, they look great. It's quite impressive how many guns you're uploading that are well known as used guns by the actors. Did you meet with some important people lately? Keep up the good work, the pics look great. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::All I can say is...Oh, my, God. You have outdone yourself this time. This is one of the best updates you've given us yet. I don't even know how to begin thanking you. I can't even express how giddy with excitement I am that we have these pictures. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:37, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

:::Yep, I saw those too! Really awesome. More than awesome, actually. And the new Desert Eagles and the Mark 23 are also VERY highly appreciated, too. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Desert Eagle==
The Desert Eagles are great! We really needed a black model and you gave us all three! Thanks much. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==H&K Mk 23 SOCOM==
Outstanding work with the SOCOM pistols! How did you come across a REAL knight's arament suppressor? You've really outdone yourself this time! Keep up the good work. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Photos==
Nice photos you got the other day from our friend. I did not mean to rub you the wrong way last week. We could work better together and put this behind us. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

== Babylon .A.D/ SPAS 15 ==

I don't think the gun under the M4 is a SPAS 15. The gun pictured has a full lengh forend and the reciver doesn't match. I have seached every where and can't figure out what the gun pictured is. But thanks for help. Gunner313

== Welcome back ==

Welcome back from your trip, hope you enjoyed it, and thanks for the new goodies. I put your newest Smith & Wesson handgun pictures on most of the pages except the ones that had no screencaps or if I couldn't tell which kind of model it was, and I also put the movies guns you got on the S.W.A.T., Untouchables, and Pulp Fiction pages. Best regards.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

== RE: Thanks ==

Sorry about taking the honors away from you, those are amazing pictures though especially those guns from The Quick and The Dead. If you would like help replacing the pictures, let me know.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 06:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the new pictures, how many armorers did you meet with? Also the Berettas from Die Hard and Lethal Weapon are nice, so they took it out of the case for you? It looks well worn.
Also, about formatting, I noticed one or two users put at the bottom of sections a few times to space out their pages, I previewed it on pages a few times, it seems to work, but you have do it a few times in a row. Not sure how effective it is, but I figured it's worth noting.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 08:24, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

==Two requests==

Star Ultrastar, And a S&W 5906 w/ Adjustable sights
Nice job on the Beretta 92 section, by the way
~ Revolver

==Weapon Photos==
Nice photos you just posted. I hope you do well getting your next gig. This SAG BS will put a damper on things. I will have some non-industry related work coming into my shop so it should not hurt that bad. If you need anything PM me on the forum and I will see what I can do. Thanks - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

== Re: Update ==

You have really outdone yourself this time, all these new images are amazing. It's cool that you had help from the armorer of True Romance, and that you got to photograph the Beretta from the Die Hard and Lethal weapon films, it makes me wonder why so many why so many actors and directors are so anti gun, especially when they worked around guns so much. Anyway, no one should mind if you replace their pictures, yours are superior to anything else on the site, and I have seen the XXX guns, and those are cool, thanks for finding out what the mystery M1911 on XXX 2 was. It's also cool that IMFDB now has it's own pictures of these unique guns. It was nice of those guys to help you, that was by far the most guns I have ever seen you upload. One thing is for certain, if people don't come here to see what guns were used in which movie, it'll most likely be to see your pictures.

No problem about the formatting, a user named [[User: Vinniebar|Vinniebar]] used it when this site first started, hopefully it'll be the answer to our formatting problems. Anyway you did good with those Berettas, they came out great with what you had there, do the they still work good? Anyway I have to get to bed now. You can keep uploading gun pictures if you want, but you can take a break if you want, you derserve one. Thanks again.

P.S, sorry if it took me long to respond, I'm not the fastest typer.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 09:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

==The new stuff==

Your updates just keep getting more and more incredible. Having actual movie guns was cool enough, but having ''specific'' guns from movies handled by stars is just beyond cool. The new Berettas and the Tokarevs are especially appreciated. I just don't even know how to thank you anymore, and words just ain't gonna cut it.

BUT...I must ask you a really quick question. You say that this Beretta was used in ''[[Die Hard]]'':

[[Image:BerettaM92FS DH1&LW1.jpg‎|thumb|400px|none|Beretta 92F 9mm used by Bruce Willis in the film with extended mag release and slide release.]]

Only thing is, this gun clearly doesn't have the extended mag release and slide release, which is visible in this screencap from our movie page:

[[Image:DH_McClane2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|McClane with his [[Beretta M92F|Beretta 92F]] drawn while taking cover from incoming fire from both Hans and Karl.]]

My question is, isn't THIS the gun that Bruce Willis used in the first ''[[Die Hard]]'':

[[Image:BerettaM92FS-DieHard2-4.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9mm. This is the actual screen used Beretta carried and fired by [[Bruce Willis]] in the film.]]

...because this one actually DOES have an extended slide release and mag release. Also, LMO has a picture of this gun on their page for ''[[Die Hard]]'' (which isn't as good as yours) and it looks identical to this.

Furthermore, I doubt this gun (the one right above) was in ''[[Die Hard 2]]'' or ''[[Die Hard with a Vengeance]]'' because I don't think either of the Berettas in that movie had the extended slide release. On the ''[[Die Hard with a Vengeance]]'', I posted a picture of one of the Berettas which I took from LMO's site.

Anyway, point is, are you sure you didn't reverse the images? Thanks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:20, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

:Also, I could have sworn the Beretta Gibson used in the first ''Lethal Weapon'' had a gold Beretta logo on the grips. Did they replace it with the blacked-out one later on? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 18:45, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

::Oh, crap...you know, I barely even grasped the scale of what you uploaded because you did so many. The Auto Ord 1911 from "Pulp Fiction", the S&W 629 and the 1911 from "XXX 2", the P7 from "True Romance"...excuse me while I go pee myself with excitement. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

::And not only do we have a Jericho 941 that's stainless, but it's the '''same''' gun used in ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''? (faints) -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:30, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

==The Berettas==

First of all, Cinema Weaponry has a display case for some of their famous movie guns? That's really awesome...do you other pictures of it? What else is in it?

Anyway, like I said, I'm pretty sure you just reversed the two Beretta images. THIS one is from ''[[Die Hard]]'':

[[Image:BerettaM92FS-DieHard2-4.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9mm. This is the actual screen used Beretta carried and fired by [[Bruce Willis]] in the film.]]

Again, if you look at the picture of Willis with the 92F from "Die Hard", it looks identical. Also, wasn't there more than one of them? I've always understood that you guys are in the habit of having at least one or two back-up weapons for each "hero gun" use? Did Mike Papac configure multiple Berettas in the same way as the one used by Bruce Willis in the first "Die Hard"? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:25, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

:OK, I'm looking at your picture of the display case. If you want my opinion, it looks like the 92F in the center of the picture (next to the "Enemy of the State" 1911) actually was used in "Die Hard 2" and "Demolition Man". You can see that it hasn't been modified for Bruce Willis (no left-hand mag release, probably because Sylvester Stallone used it later, and he's no lefty). However, the next Beretta over is definitely the one from the first "Die Hard" - it '''does''' have the left-handed, extended mag release. However, you probably just can't see the label for the gun because it's out of the picture.

:Do you think that might explain things? We should ask Steve about this, as I'm sure he knows well. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:30, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

::But I forget...didn't Syd Stembridge basically take all of his remaining assets to Cinema Weaponry? I've been under the impression that Stembridge and CW essentially merged with each other after Stembridge closed down in '99. So aren't the guns that Syd kept now in Mike's hands?

::And yes, I imagine Mike must have a lot of cool stuff to photograph. One other thing you should ask about...remember the H&K G11 from ''[[Demolition Man]]''? If you can at least get the story on where that gun came from, that would be awesome. I've always wondered...did they build it themselves?

::''ALOT of them in films are still those HK94 conversions, but now we can't tell visually if they are or not.''

::True, but that just means they're identical to almost every single other transferable MP5 within the chain of commerce, which were also converted from HK94s. I forgot...was it La France that did most of the conversions of HK94s for Stembridge, Ellis, etc.? Anyway, it's good that you got the picture of the one that you have. Those things may be obvious conversions, but they're still an important part of movie gun history! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:38, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I figured Syd was still in business even though he doesn't seem to get many armorer credits these days - if you watch ''[[A Man Apart]]'', for instance, it says, "Weapons provided by Stembridge & Cinema Weaponry" in the credits. But I've been confused about what weapons he retained, what LMO sold, what CW received or what came under their umbrella, etc. Thanks for clearing that up.

:::So as far as the G11 goes, are you saying that the one in ''[[Demolition Man]]'' was actually a real G11 and not something that was built specially for the film? I figured it was built around something else, sort of like the way that "XXX 2" features G36Ks mocked up to look like XM8s (and I think Steve may have had a hand in that film as well). As far as getting a picture, don't worry, I won't pressure you. I realize how hard it must be. I was just curious to know if the gun in the movie was the real deal or not, because I couldn't imagine HK would ever trust some moronic actor with one of their rare prototype weapons (no offense to Wesley Snipes). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:37, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

==Confusion + Overseas visit==

I think I'm about to make you a whole lot more confused...

''Mike recalls that he didn't install the extended mag release button and slide release until the second movie''

If that's what Mike recalls, then it doesn't seem to match the evidence. Here is a screencap from the '''first''' ''[[Die Hard]]'' showing the Beretta:

[[Image:Vlcsnap-62528.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

So again, this is the ''first'' movie that this image came from. If you look closely, you can see that McClane's (Willis') Beretta '''does''' have the extended slide release. Again, compare to the picture you took:

[[Image:BerettaM92FS-DieHard2-4.jpg‎|thumb|400px|none|]]

So Mike's memory must be failing him on this, with all due respect. It looks like he ''did'' put on the extended slide release (and mag release) for the first movie. I don't know about the Lethal Weapon movies (I don't have those on DVD), but the 92F from Die Hard 1 is a gun that has an extended slide release.

Also, did Mike do any work on ''[[Die Hard With a Vengeance]]''? I've always been under the impression that because that movie was filmed in New York, Weapons Specialists, Inc. provided the guns for that film. Rick Washburn is credited on IMDB as the armorer on ''[[Die Hard With a Vengeance]]'' (though it looks like Dave Fencl also did some work on the film). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:45, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

==re:==

''I MAY have an opportunity to go overseas (France) and I will try to photograph some of Christophe Maratier's guns (Leon/Ronin/LaFemme Nikita/District B13/Taken/etc) I would like to also go picture taking in Britain at Bapty's or Sascha Robey's collection, but who knows? I don't have a connection/introduction yet with those guys. And with all the retarded gun restrictions going on over there...... ''

That is pretty wild! Unfortunately, Bapty auctioned off a whole bunch of the James Bond movie guns (including several of the original Walthers, plus the OICW replica from ''[[Die Another Day]]''), back in 2006, before the recent ban on "realistic imitation replicas" took place (they were all deactivated prior to the auction). Still, it would be really cool to see some of the stuff they still have. You would probably be able to get them to let you in, though. Dan Shea went to Bapty's back in 2003 (I think) and they let him photograph a lot of their guns (which appear on LMO's site), so if you told them who you were, you could probably get in. Have fun! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:48, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

::''Yeah, but WHO is the better photographer? ;)''

::Well, obviously...hehe. :-) The coolest thing is how you got a lot of the same guns as his site, but yours are 100x the quality. Speaking of which, have you ever considered professional gun photography for a living? Or do you already do it? Your pictures are the kind of thing that gun rags and books would kill for.

::''I was thinking of doing an actual table top book with the pics (including a bunch of other angles that I did not upload)''

::What about a book showing off specific "hero guns" from movies? Have any of you (the armorers) talked about that in the past? Of course, I guess the great thing about IMFDB is that you guys are free to use it for precisely this purpose, except that anyone can access it for free.

::''Either that or I'll say "MT2008 says you're full of SHIT!" heheheh. Those were done 23 years ago and we're all doing this from recollection.''

::Ugh, I dunno if I could stomach the idea of correcting Mike on his own work, being as I'm not an armorer. But I do realize that it's unreasonable to expect him to know all this stuff from memory. I have trouble remembering details about specific guns I shot as recently as 5 years ago. 23 years is a ''long'' time to keep details in your head, for any human being.

::As far as the (nearly) blank pages go...screw 'em. I've deleted several already. Also, one user made a page for ''[[The War Briefing]]''. I'm not sure it fits with the scope of the site. What do you think? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:02, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

==re:Asshat==

It's just some dude who's upset because I gave him a temporary suspension for fucking up the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page with inaccurate info when he didn't even have the courtesy to ''ask'' before editing. Maybe I over-reacted a ''little'', being that I did most of the screencapping and other work on that page, but the sheer audacity of his rudeness just pissed me off so much that I figured he deserved a time-out.

Don't worry, I wasn't fooled for even a second when I saw the "Warning" on my talk page (you can see my responses to him [[User talk:68.233.138|here]]). And yes, I ''could'' actually report '''him''' for impersonating an FBI agent and they might complain. But, this loser is too pathetic to even bother. Besides, I have the flu right now, so I don't feel like it anyway. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:27, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

==Arachnid==

OK, it's really interesting you made a page for this movie...I watched it on Sci-Fi not too long ago, but couldn't remember the title! And even though I'm an ''[[Ultimate Force]]'' fan, I completely failed to recognize [[Alex Reid]] in the movie. Weird...

As far as the guns in the movie, I may be wrong, but I remember the AR-15 carbine (the long-barreled one) being a Colt Sporter-1. Or at least, I think the upper was from a Sporter-1, because that looks to me like a 16" barrel. I can't remember - was the gun ever fired on auto? I remember the Model 733 was, but I remember the other AR only being fired on semi. In which case, I suspect it's most likely a factory civilian Sporter-1.

Also, I think Chris Potter's MAC (the one which magically becomes an Uzi) is an RPB clone or something else that's smaller. Unless Chris Potter is a huge guy with huge hands (and he doesn't seem that way in any of the other stuff I've seen him in where he handles guns), the receiver on the MAC looks a bit too small for it to be an original MAC-10. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:No worries! I would have been really upset myself. My first week here, I remember editing a page while another user made a minor edit simultaneously, and I was really pissed off too because I lost all my edits which I hadn't backed up, which was nearly an hour of work down the drain. Nowadays, I'm in the habit of copying anything I write into a Word file before submitting in case that happens.

:Anyway, back to the movie...I'm not sure if Chris Potter has such huge hands or not. Not too long ago, I was watching episodes of ''[[Kung Fu: The Legend Continues]]'' on YouTube, which he starred in. His sidearm in that show was a Beretta 92FS Inox (which had a habit of turning into a Taurus PT92 in some scenes), and it didn't seem any bigger in his hands than mine, and I don't have big hands (just long fingers). I haven't compared a MAC-10 to an Uzi in size, so I dunno what the difference is.

:Oh, yeah, and I love how he fires his MAC/Uzi sideways, "gangsta style". He used to do that with his Beretta in "Kung Fu" as well! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:06, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

==Browning A5==
Do you by any chance have any [[Browning A5]] shotguns in your armory, as well as a Remington Model 11 copy, since I've noticed a few pages featuring them (like [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]'s [[Thunderball]] page).

And you never got back to me on my qeustion about blank converting revolvers. It's a little further up your discussion page. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==The Rundown==
I've had [[The Rundown]] screencapped for some time now (hadn't had time to upload) but would you mind if I replaced some of your shots with mine (they are larger resolution), but if you don't want me to, I could always delete my caps, but it took me a while to save them. I've had it on my list for some time now, it would really make me happy if I could upload mine. Get back to me on this. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I realized this, so I only replaced one shot of the Remington 870 because it shows just a little bit more. You're shots are still on the page. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Thanks, I felt (I guess the word is self-conceous) since I knew I was uploading more screencaps than you would have, but as you see, I add comments on the crazy movie logic and other fun facts to fill out stuff (I always have a plan when I save screencaps, so I know when I plan to label these facts early, hence I sometimes have a heavy screencap load). I try to always catch EVERY gun in a movie, so I never use scene skip and rarely fast forward. When I do fast forward, I have a strange sixth sense that allows me to see guns that are only seen briefly on even normal speed. Anyway, I'll be uploading a movie called [[Legends of the Fall]] tommorow, I'm working on it now. I think it is a perfect gun movie because it covers the early 1900s, so we see old west guns, WWI guns, and prohibition gangster guns. It's great. Incredible film too, I recommend it. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Revolvers again==
Copied from above:

I have a question. I know auto pistols need to be milled and threaded to fire blanks but do revolvers need to be modified to fire reliably? I once had some acorn crimped .45 LC blanks which I put through a SAA. The primers backed out from a lack of recoil and the gun locked up. I tried putting it though a Colt M1917 and it hardly fired unless I angled it right. I've seen in movies how some of the firing pins are removed from the hammers (like the S&W 36 from [[Running Scared]]). If they do need to be modified, could you tell me how exactly? Thanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Thanks for clearing up the SKS, that was the only model I was aware of (not an SKS pro, only know what I've seen or held at shows) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I guess I just had crappy blanks. I can't remember the brand but they were written in french or italian or something. They were acorn blanks, not those longer movie blanks. Plenty loud though. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Shoot 'Em Up==
I usually use my desktop computer for screencapping and it keeps the master images at a relatively simple size so I don't need to resize them. But I screencapped [[Shoot 'Em Up]] on my sister's HP Pavilian DV-6000 laptop because my screencapper on the desktop didn't except SEU's format. Her computer is HIGH-DEF and the images were gigantic, even after I resized them. I thought they were small enough after resizing but they were still pretty big. They certainly look nice though. You can tell based on the number of screencaps that I wasn't up to re-resizing all the images because they were a tad over sized. Next time I use her laptop to screencap (get ready for a much better documentation of the Matrix films), I'll be sure to resize them correctly. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Smith and Wesson 1006 ==

Hey, MPM, could you get me a pic of a Smith and Wesson 1006? That'd be awesome, thanks.
from ProtoAuthor.

Also, from me again, how about making an UziMac10, like in Dogs of War?
::Those guns don't exist any more. Once regular Uzis became more prevalent (including the influx of semi automatic Uzi Model A and Model B carbines that were then converted into full auto guns in the 1980s) the MAC 10s were converted back to MAC-10s. And good riddance in my book. ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:59, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Dang. Well, how about the 1006?

== M1911 Question ==

I was wondering, would it be possible to take the hammer and grip safety from a [[M1911 pistol series#Colt XSE|Colt XSE]] and put them on a standard M1911A1? I was thinking this might be what was done to create [[Josh Duhamel]]'s 1911 in ''[[Transformers]]''. Any input you have on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:15, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

== More Requests ==

I have a couple more requests

* The Custom Mossberg 590 from ''[[Rambo (2008)]]'' and ''[[Transformers]]''

* Beretta 92FS fitted with Silencier

* M40 and M40A3 Sniper Rifles

* Barrett M82A1

Thanks

From 76..219.156.200

== Badlands image sizes ==

Hey, a user converted all the 500px images I used on ''[[Badlands]]'' to 300px, but I was wondering if that was too small? I would change it back to my original 500px (or at least 400px) but I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way by undoing what was done (if they had good reason). Also, good call on the 03A3 rifle used, I had completely misidentified it! - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]
:Thanks for clearing that up, I appreciate it. I didn't want to cause any trouble but since you'd seen the page for sure I figured you'd know best how to handle it. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]

==Colt 1903 Pocket Hammer==

Hi MPM. The Colt 1903 Pocket Hammer is a completely different weapon compared to the Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless. The Colt 1903 Pocket Hammer is a shorter version of the Colt 1902 Military and is chambered in 38 ACP. You don't see them that much any more since the 1911 came out. We did send one out on Public Enemies but do not know if Harry used it. -[[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]
: No problem but someone at Colt was not think when they named their models. I can see the salesman trying to explain it and the customer rolling their eyes and saying what are you talking about. They had some neat weapons in those early movies. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

==Ever used one of these?==
While I was screencapping [[3:10 to Yuma (2007)]] (I'll be uploading it very soon), I saw in the special features that they use this special gun that fires balls of dust or spark so you don't have to set up squibs anywhere to imitate bullet impact. It looked pretty cool and I was wondering if you were familiar with these. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

Some shots:
[[Image:SquibGun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:SquibGun-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:SquibGun-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:''Mythbusters had something remotely similar on an episode a while back. I say remotely, because while they created the same mini-bombs (for lack of a better term), they hand-launched them at their door instead of shooting them.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 07:49, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

==Watermarked Image==
Since people have been using your images without permission, I made one of your pics with a water mark. What do you think? If you like, I'll be more than happy to add it to all your images so no one steals them.
[[Image:ColtMkIVSeries70watermarked.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt MK IV Series 70 with IMFDB watermark.]]
All I did was Hardlight the logo to remove the back color and faded it so it was just the logo alone. It's really easy. Get back to me. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:For now do you mind if I just warn of spoilers at the top of the page? Later I'll decide what I can get rid of (if I do). If that guy on the Rambo page is a jerk, by all means remove his images, I personally don't know him so I couldn't have known that.

Don't forget to tell me what you think of the watermark. If it is too big, I can make it smaller. Whatever you want. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Re: Saturday Shoot --- more pics coming --- just a heads up ==

Thanks for the heads up, and good luck with the shoot. It sounds cool that you're going to photograph more great guns, I can't wait to see the McMillan TAC-50 and M249 , and anything else you have, you never dissapoint. If you get more western guns, that will be great, those guns look amazing and GM45 will be thrilled. It's cool that Imfdb will have pictures that no one else has or will have. Anyway, good luck with your shoot, don't work too hard. Also, can you try to get more cool Beretta handguns like the ones you uploaded last time? sorry if I'm bugging you with Berettas alot, I'm just really anxious to see you upload a Beretta 92FS Inox, it's one of the pictures I want most, that's all. Once again, good luck. Also did you tell any other armorers about Imfdb?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 05:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

:Hey, sorry I didn't respond earlier, but I have a '''burning''' request and I'm hoping you get this message before you go to CW again.

:You know those weird AKMSU clones (in 7.62x39mm) that have AKS-74U-style folding stocks? They've appeared in a zillion movies, and I know they must be the same guns being reused a lot. I think they're just full-size AK variants (Type 56s or Maadis, maybe) that have been converted with Krinkov parts kits. I have no idea whose inventory they're in, but I've seen them in a lot of movies that Mike Papac and other CW armorers worked on, which leads me to guess that CW must have at least a couple of them in inventory (unless they sub-rented from a different armory).

:Here is what I'm talking about:

[[Image:XxXAKMSU.jpg|thumb|none|500px|''[[XXX]]'']]

[[Image:BB2AKS-74U.jpg|thumb|none|500px|''[[Bad Boys II]]'']]

[[Image:A_MAN_APART-19.jpg|thumb|none|500px|''[[A Man Apart]]'']]

[[Image:TtAKMSU-9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|''[[Tropic Thunder]]'']]

They've also appeared in movies like ''[[Three Kings]]'', ''[[Crank]]'', ''[[The Kingdom]]'', etc. If you were to take a picture of one of these guns, I think it would probably become our standard AKMSU photo, because probably 90% of the AKMSU-type guns I've seen in movies seem to be these same guns. If you can get one on short notice, great. If not, no worries. But have fun! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:06, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

==Titles starting with "the"==
Personally I've always hated the format of putting "The" at the end, despite it being considered "prop format" and personally I like the titles the way they are. If it is absolutely necessary to make this change, go ahead, but I don't like it. I think titles look fine the way the are "MoviePropMaster2008, User:".

And for the people who make fun of us in chatrooms, FUCK EM! People make diggs at us all the time, but the ten or so admins. on the site work hard and productive and are constantly combating 1000s of anonymous users daily, which is more than most can say. We do what we do right and anyone who mocks our work is a dumbass. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:Getting tired of pictures? Every time you upload more guns, I feel like I'm getting presents, because I love seeing awesome new pictures of guns, especially movie guns. I almost peed myself with excitement when you uploaded all those screen-used weapons (like the P220 from "Live Free or Die Hard") on your last update.

:The titles thing may be able to be fixed as well, without actually doing any redirects. There may be a way to sort titles so that the word "The" is ignored. I know that on my iPod, bands that have the word "The" before them are grouped by the next word in their names on my "Artists" list. It can't be that hard to find a command which sorts them differently. I'll see if I can find it.

:And I share GM's sentiments on the people's who talk shit about us. They're just lames. Who cares what they think? If they were better than us, they'd actually make their own sites that are as thorough and informative as ours. Besides, I think IMFDB has already been influential in a lot of ways. I already see people on other gun boards distinguish now between a basic "AK-47" and a Norinco Type 56 look-a-like, which seems to be a trend we helped start, now that we've told people what to look for. For every negative comment I read about IMFDB, I see 10x as many people who love our site. Besides, how else do you explain the ridiculous number of views we've had in the last year? (nearly 3x as many in 2008 as 2007, the first year of operations) The numbers don't lie. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:06, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

::Nah, dude, I don't disagree with you that it's annoying, what I'm saying is that there may be a way to fix it besides doing re-directs (which is going to take ages if you want to do it). You may be able to fix the page code so that the listing ignores the word "The" if it comes at the beginning of a title. That way, a movie like "The Dark Knight" would be grouped under "D" even if it was listed as "The Dark Knight" instead of "Dark Knight, The". -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:55, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

==re: AK issues==

No, I don't hate you...actually, I've had the same thought myself for a while. The AK-47 page is getting too long and now includes variants it wasn't really meant to include. However, my idea for the solution is a bit different - that is, I'm not so sure we need to give the guns their own pages based on country of origin.

Broadly speaking, I think the AK-47 page should be limited to AK variants that are 7.62x39mm. You and I both know that the 7.62x39mm AKs which appear in movies and TV shows are the same types that used to be imported to the U.S. in the 1980s as civilian sporters. What that means is that the list is actually pretty limited - you've got the Egyptian Maadis, the Chinese Type 56s, the Hungarian SA-85Ms, and the Yugo M70s, and that's pretty much it. Of course, we've also seen the Romanian AIMS in a couple of movies (like "44 Minutes"), so maybe that one, too. So we can still classify the 7.62x39mm AKs by country, but on the SAME page instead of separate pages. You've told me yourself that armorers mostly stick to the old 1980s-vintage AKs and don't ever buy any of the newer guns (like the crappy Romaks and the Century Arms POSs), so doesn't that make our job pretty simple? We don't necessarily have to look for the more obscure derivatives that will only (at best) show up in movies filmed in countries where those guns were manufactured.

Besides grouping the 7.62x39mm AKs by their country of origin, I propose we also do the following:

*-'''Put the Norinco Type 84 on the [[AK-74]] page instead''': The logic being, the Type 84 often stands in for the AK-74 in American and Canadian movies/TV shows ("Stargate: SG1" being a good example), so why not put it on a page with the gun it's meant to imitate?
*-'''Move ALL AK-100 variants to their own page''' Even though they're basically modest updates of the classic AK-47 design, they're still different enough by name that I think they need their own page.
*-'''Keep any AK derivatives that are significantly different on their pages''' What this means is that something like the AEK-971 should not be on the AK-47 page. And likewise, the Galil and Valmet (which already have their own pages) need to be kept there.
*-'''Refuse to allow any foreign-made derivatives that don't appear in at least a few movies'''

How do you think that sounds? Maybe my defensive reflex is a bit strong on this, but I do really want to keep weapons that are basically identifiable as AK-47s and AKMs on one page. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:49, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Question:
Hey, MPM, how do movie effects people do RPG fire? Is it all CG, do they launch a dummy tip and edit it out, or what?

== Re: Titles ==

I knew somebody would start changing the titles like that eventually, a few users complained about it, and a website even noted to look for titles beginning with '''The''' in the '''T''' section. The redirects you did worked out great, I think the movies with '''The''' in their titles will be easier to find that way, good work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:37, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
:I agree, that makes things much easier! Should we also do the same with titles beginning with "A" or "An"? - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]

==Mr & Mrs Smith==
I just finished [[The Boondock Saints]] and am in a pause between movies, were you planning to do this one or can I (I noticed you added shots)? It's been at the bottom of my pile for a while and it wouldn't hurt to start digging from the bottom now. If you have stuff saved, you can of course do it, but if not let me know if I can. Thanks. Great gun pics you've uploaded, we've needed a G36 for a while and the StG 44 is excellent. Superb work. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I did the Matrix on my sister's laptop, which puts out some really big pics. I sent them to my desktop and uploaded them on the site but didn't have time to resize them. They look fuzzy? I thought they looked great. I'll be doing the other Matrix movies on the laptop too, but I'll try to resize those shots first. I'm super pissed right now because I screencapped Mr. & Mrs. Smith and 50 of the screencaps didn't save. So now I have to go back and grab the shots, many of which are from gun heavy scenes. So I had planned to upload the caps by tommorow but my crappy as computer has other plans. BTW, I only use my sister's laptop when the DVD doesn't have the right format and won't play on my screencapper (a rarity, but it happens), so I don't use it too often. It's her computer so I obviously can't bogart it for my own means alone. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Your images look a lot better, but didn't you buy this special machine that screencaps VHS and DVDs? I'd assume that would put out better images than any simple DVD player like mine. If I had put more time into it, I could have brightened the pictures to look better (I do that more commonly when adding caps to one of your pages, because my caps look like crap next to yours if I don't edit them). Compared to my regular desktop images, you can see why I would find the laptop ones more appealing. You'll see when I upload Mr. & Mrs. Smith that I brightened the pics. My personal favorite screencap from the Matrix is the Desert Eagle cycling blanks, it just looks cool. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::BTW, how come your images are so small? Usually when I upload images, they are just a little bigger than the sample picture with a full resolution preview. Yours have no higher resolution. Do you resize them to this point to save space or does your screencapper just produce small pics? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Re:Admins==
I had figured he had had quite a probabtion period, but the one with power makes the decisions, not me. It was just a suggestion. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== re: Congratulations! ==

Thanks! It's an honor to be a part of such a talented group. And I certainly understand, no need taking a risk when it's not necessary! While we're on the subject of controlling some of the stuff anonymous users add, I recall seeing a section about spoilers on the forums. I noticed today that someone had changed some of the words on my page for ''[[Godfather Part III, The]]'' to include some spoilers about the action happening (such as main characters getting killed, etc.) I realize this user was probably trying to help others specifically note when the gun was used, but that's what the screencaps are for. Would it be rude to rollback some of this user's suggestions to the previous format (which was more vague about deaths and killings in the film) or were they correct in adding this information? - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]

== re: Spoilers ==

Absolutely, that helped a ton! There are also a few in the ''[[Scarface]]'' page which, in my opinion, needs some revamping (especially since its one of our most popular pages). I'm thinking of capping it sometime soon when I have about four hours to spare, so hopefully it'll look very cleaned up relatively soon. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]

==Mr. & Mrs. Smith pistols==
I had them IDed as a Browning Buckmark Camper with a suppressor and a Ruger Mk III with a suppressor. Your caps are a tad clearer than mine, and now I'm even more sure I was right. (I'll likely use your caps instead of mine since they show the guns better)

As for the big room full of pistols, that is awesome. I can just image that when you open the door, blinding light shines through and a choir sings. I could spends hours upon hours in there.

BTW, the Beretta 93R pic looks great.

I'm almost done working on M&MS, it's a big movie and has been taking me a long time to finish. I've also brightened my caps so they look nice. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Gun Room Pic ==

Just saw the pic you posted of the Stembridge handgun room, and to quote [[James Earl Jones]] in ''[[The Hunt for Red October]]'': '''"Mother of god..."''' [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:04, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

:Yeah, I love when you post the pictures of vaults/armories and such. Thanks for sharing those with us. Also, the new gun pics lately (the G36, Sturmgewehr, Beretta 93R, etc.) are much appreciated! Sorry I haven't been around as much lately; I have kind of a lot going on right now. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

== RE: You might get a kick out of this ==

Wow, all I can say is Handgun Heaven! That collection truly is amazing, it has everything from Flintlocks to Semi-Automatics, I enjoy it when you take pictures of vaults and museum cases, they're really cool. Btw, the G36 rifles, the Beretta 93R, and the other photos you uploaded this past week are amazing, thank you for uploading.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:48, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

== Who supplied armorers [[CornerShot|CornerShot's]] ==

I been to every gun selling site and read every youtube video and could not ever find a
[[CornerShot|CornerShot]] on auction. Probably because CNN said this weapon system will onfortunately not be sold to civilians. Were these weapons systems real or replicas if they were real how could armorer's get them when they originated from IRAQ?[[User:Btracy1994|Btracy1993]] 22:21, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

== gun room picture ==

They have an incredibly impressive collection there! That seems like one of those places that once you enter, you'd never want to leave! - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]

==SP89 used in ''The Rock''==
Hi, I would like to know more about the H&K SP89 used in The Rock (1996).

Was it actually, based on a H&K SP-89? or just a H&K MP5k plus a SP89 type front grip?

Also,i would like to know What's the trigger set of it? 0-1? S-E-F? or with Navy type?

Would you mind to post a photo of it?

Thx a lot~

[[User:Friendsever|Friendsever]]

==Proper Quote==
That was my bad, I could have sworn he said "Kids." Thanks for clearing that up and going through the effort of screencapping it with subtitles. I'm working on the Glocks now, then I won't have much more to add. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Reply==
I'd probably stick my hand in the cubby with the MP5K-PDWs or the one with the sawed off/pistol grip shotguns below it to the left.

As for the "Colt 25", it is indeed a Colt 1908 Pocket chambered in .25 ACP, but most newcomers (and the person who made the page) know the cheap airsoft gun's name, which is the "Colt 25". - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::I was reading the Dawn of the Dead page, and I agree that the M16 they used looks more real than an Armscor. I own an Armscor M1600, it hits almost dead-on at 80yards but the pistol grip cracked so I don't use it much anymore. It hardly looks like an M16 at all. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:::How do I get my own room like that? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:34, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Imagine if you will....... ==

Wow, how big is Cinema Armory? I would look in the one that the green Beretta looking handgun in it. What is that green handgun anyway? That is a very cool picture btw.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 01:27, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

==Sigma SW9F==

Thanks so much for that one! It's cool that we now have a standard black Sigma as well as the grey one. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:27, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

==Re: Colt Mustang==
I don't know. I had originally changed the Mustang because it had its own page and added it to the 1911. Basically it is still a Compact 1911 variant in .380 ACP (even refered to as Colt Government Model .380 by some and derived from such), but then again they make the Imbel M973 in 9mm and the Imbel MD1 in .38 Super Auto and both of them are fit for the 1911 page and based on the 1911 model. So my vote is no. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Re: Chamelot Delvigne Model 1873==
The Chamelot Delvigne Model 1873 was issued in the white only they were never blued by the French. Strange to us that someone would issue a bare metal weapon any finishing or caliber mods were done by gunsmith here in the states. We had ten of them at Ellis and they were beautiful in the white. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

==Re: Die Hard 2 "MP5s"==

I don't think we can call the MP5A3s in ''[[Die Hard 2]]'' "fake" MP5A3s because if you look closely, they don't seem to be partial conversions. On Stewart's MP5, you can see that it has a barrel with three attachment lugs, and the lower receiver has a pushpin (for swapping out different types) and a flipper magazine release. The partially-converted HK94s wouldn't have any of that stuff.

The MP5 handled by McClane (the one with the scope) may or may not be an HK94 partial conversion; I will have to check my DVD to be sure. But for now, I'm just going to call them MP5A3s because unless the gun is a partial HK94 conversion, we shouldn't call it a "fake" MP5 (even though we both know that 99% of transferable MP5s in the U.S. were actually converted from HK94s). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

:Oh, I don't disagree with you that we should separate the HK94s from the MP5 if they are '''partial''' conversions. I've been trying to do that more and more often myself (see my ''[[Air Force One]]'' page, for instance). But the only thing I'm saying is, '''the Die Hard 2 MP5s are ''not'' partial conversions.''' Therefore, we can't really call them "fake". I think your eye just slipped. The ones in the movie are the full conversions which are visually indistinguishable from standard MP5A3s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:04, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

::Just checked my DVD. The scoped MP5A3 used by McClane is also a full conversion (it has an SEF lower and barrel lugs, which are visible when he pulls it out of the snow, takes out the mag, and realizes it's loaded with blanks). But it's all good, since we're on the same page now, as you said. ;)

::I do appreciate the new pics! The AKMS and SL8 are quite nice, but the main one I was happy about was the S&W Sigma SW9F you gave me for my ''[[American Dragons]]'' page. Even though the Sigma doesn't appear in too many movies, it's really great we have one those now! Thanks again for all your hard work! As far as new users making too many gun pages...screw 'em. I mentioned my stance on this in that topic on the forum. Check it out.

::Oh, yeah, and did you see that we were able to use your Daewoo DP51/K5 picture on the page for the game ''[[Combat Arms]]''? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:32, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

== Smith & Wesson Model 60 Hammerless ==

I was wondering, did you ever upload a picture of a [[Smith & Wesson Model 60]] with a shaved hammer? I could have sworn we had a pic of such a gun here but when I went looking for it for the ''[[CSI: NY]]'' page I couldn't find one. Any help you could provide on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:36, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

== Re: ''The Beast of War'' Screenshots ==

I love the new screenshots, way better than the crappy Youtube stills I had up. Thanks a lot for screencapping this page for me. One note though; the tank used in the film is actually a Ti-67; a T55 that was modified by the Israeli's , most notably having the main gun upgraded from the original 100mm D-10T to a western-built 105mm L7 gun (the same kind used in the American M60 Patton and the earliest version of the M1 Abrams). Thanks again for the new screencaps, looking forward to seeing the rest of them. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:21, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

== Thanks so much ==

Thank you so much for the 870, it looks amazing! I'm wondering the same thing, maybe he wanted to mock the 870 up to look like a Mossberg 590 with Ghost ring sights. But we got to admit, it sure does look badass, thanks again for the shotgun. if you need anything, just ask.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 19:49, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Thanks for the Beast updates ==

I saw this film several times on TV a few years back, but I haven't been able to catch more than Youtube clips (where the previous low-res screenshots came from) lately. Some of the info came from those clips, while the rest came from memory and research on IMDB and Wikipedia. As for the screenshot captions, I don't mind at all, makes my job easier. I remember the film also has a firearm-related Rudyard Kipling quote at the beginning. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:14, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Dawn of the Dead Shotgun ==

If anyone deserves thanks it's you, but you're welcome. Also, since we're talking about shotguns, do you think you could get an old wood stock set on a Mossberg 590 for the Dead Presidents page? ~[[User:yournamehere|Yournamhere]] (I forgot my name, silly me.)

== Re: Dawn of the Dead Shotgun ==

Thanks again, it looks even more menacing now, a true zombie killer. One question, did you have to do something specific to the shotgun to get the sights on? such as drilling holes?. Anyway, thanks again for the shotgun, it was well worth the wait.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 05:30, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

== Omega Man pictures ==

Hey great work on the OM page. I don't have the ability to capture stills from a DVD with my PC (I don't think I do) so way to go. [[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]]

== Yep I'm a fan of Omega Man. ==

I'm forty-one and I remember going to a drive in with my parents back in the summer of 73 and watching Omega Man. It was the second feature, but dad says that I stayed awake for the entire movie. Pretty impressive for a five year old.

I own a copy of I Am Legend, but I prefer OM. Own both actually.

The only guns I own from the movie are a 1911A1 and a 1903A3.Whoops sorry I do own an M-1 carbine as well. I own several S&W revolvers , but unfortunately they never make an appearance in the movie. And I belong to a couple Omega Man websites. For those who like the movie.

I don't own any selective fire weapons. Out of my price range right now.

My wife hates it. Oh well. [[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]]

==Re: Orphaned Image==
It belonged to the ''[[Quigley Down Under]]'' page, but I had replaced all the images later on since QDU was my first page I screencapped and had all widescreen shots. I didn't know that if you saved over an image, it eventually stopped getting stretched, and I wasn't an Admin. yet so I couldn't delete them myself. I deleted that image and any other from that movie that pop up in random images. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Mauser Rifle Series==
I was wondering since you added the Mauser 98 to the page if you think the Gew 98 should be on the same page instead of a separate page? I was thinking that it should be for everything else except the popular Gew98 ans K98k rifles. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]
:: You rock on the Mauser photos they are beautiful. At Ellis we had 1891, 1895, 1898. Model 1935 and VZ's I just have to find my repair records before I list them. Thanks Steve

==re:==

I'm in the habit of making LOTS of new redirects, meaning that I do new pages for gun variants that we have grouped on particular pages, and then I redirect to the group page. The advantage is that it makes it simpler to insert gun page links when I'm doing a movie/TV page. Like, who wants to write '''<nowiki>[[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Tactical]]</nowiki>''' when you can just write '''<nowiki>[[Heckler & Koch USP Tactical]]</nowiki>''' and be done with it? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:44, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

==Heckler & Koch MP7A1 and Heckler & Koch 416 ==

HI MoviePropMaster, I'm Gerry.I want to know if you can do me a favor, if you can upload pictures of a Heckler & Koch MP7A1 and the Keckler & Koch 416 I would greatly appreciate it, and great work so far.

==XM16E1 Photo==
Hey MPM, I hope that it did not upset you on the XM16E1 photo it was a configuration that most people have never seen or own. It was just one that was missing and the mod was a flash hider, chrome carrier to go with We Were Soldiers. If I did sorry. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

==Your Break==
You deserve a break, you've done a lot of hard work for us. I hope you find taking pics fun again, just remember, you alone have taken more movie gun pics than any other on the net. It was my fault for starting the whole Frankengun thing, but I think the best way to fix it is to not allow it from now on, and credit you for any of the ones in current use. I can imagine it must be frustrating to have people messing with your work. It annoys me how people like Kin93 almost MASS-PRODUCE your images in this manner, and I don't see your name anywhere on "his" pics. At least Steve told you he used your M16A1 and M16 pics. Kin93 never even contacted you. Anyway, hope your hiatus ends soon, we all love your gun pics and apoligize for those who don't appreciate them. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:On the one hand, I think you definitely deserve a break. IMFDB doesn't pay the bills, after all, and anything you do for us should be done because you enjoy it, not because you feel obligated to do it.

:On the other hand, I don't think you should take it too personally if IMFDB users make "franken gun" pictures. Yes, they should give you credit (as Kin93 failed to do), but it doesn't mean they don't appreciate your work. Whenever someone does that to you again, you should warn them that you don't like them butchering your work, but please don't treat all of IMFDB as if we're like this. Besides your gun pictures (which are awesome), you're one of the most valuable people on this site. Even if you never post another gun picture again, your presence would be greatly missed. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

== Break ==

Sorry to hear about your most recent problem, and I agree, they should atleast give you credit when they edit your pictures, that's what I would do. And believe me, there are a quite a few users on here who apprecite your work. You are one of the most important users on this site because you have helped bring this site very far, and if there is anyone who deserves a break, it is definitely you. Hopefully you'll be able to find taking gun pictures fun again, and come back, but until then, enjoy your break. You will be missed.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:14, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

'''Edit''' MPM2008, When you come back, I think you should see this:[http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_MK23]

==RE: THANKS! for the note of support==
I'm glad to see your back and I'm sorry you had a tough time. We all missed you though, the site felt a little less complete without you. Sorry to hear that guy took credit for your work, I'm sure he'll get his soon enough >:)

BTW, check out the Dirty Harry movies, I've been working on them lately (I finished [[Enforcer, The|The Enforcer]] most recently) and am trying to get [[Sudden Impact]] done by tommorow. Anyway, welcome back! - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Re: THANKS! for the note of support ==

Glad to have you back, and sorry to hear about the tough time you had during your break. Sorry to hear about the shotgun too, hopefully the credit found it's way to who it really belongs to. And I find those Franken Gun picture amusing too, everytime I see one, I wonder to myself how they do that, but figured it was photoshoping, did you see this one?:

[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Custom Hybrid gun made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the North Hollywood Shootout - 5.56mm]]

About the Wiki page I showed you, [[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] uploaded your picture of the Mark 23 with the supressor on it on that site, but I also contacted MT2008 about it as well, and Cutaway agreed to take it off the page, don't be hard on Cutaway though, I don't think he knew that you didn't want your pictures on other sites.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 00:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

==Glad you're back!==

I'm relieved you came back. The past couple weeks just have not been the same with you gone. I totally understand what you said, though.

In your absence, we've still been enforcing rules regarding your pictures. Alienqueen and I took care of the pictures that Cutaway posted on the Gunpedia Wiki (he complied with my request to remove them). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:23, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

==Welcome back!==
Hey MPM, Glad that you are back hope things went well. I have been putting in some long hours down south also. Good to see your back at it. If there is anything we can do to help let us know. Thanks - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

==Re: AMT Pistols page==
I haven't been talking to Rockwolf actually, I just figured I'd make the page because we needed it. It's understandable that no one wanted them, they are ugly and fire mostly unique cartridges. They are like 1911s on steroids. Anyway, I had Auto Mags on the mind because of the Sudden Impact page I'm soon to upload. BTW, how the hell do you write Auto Mag? Is it Auto Mag, AutoMag, or Automag? I figured it was the first since that's what's written on the gun in your pic (which looks great). That's a 180, right?

I'm proud of my Auto Mag III picture, since it was originally a gun on a rug, but I took the rug out. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::So should I change the page name to [[AMT Auto Mag Pistol Series|AMT AUTOMAG Pistol Series]]? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==re: Executive Decision==

Thank you, sir. Though I think did get maybe a ''little'' carried away with pics of the Glock 19 (seven total, one of which shows just the magazine). Usually, when I do that, it's because a movie has made me enamored with the particular gun that gets more screencaps than the rest. Watching "Executive Decision" has given me the worst urge to go out and blow $$$$$ I need for tuition on a Gen 1 Glock 19.

''When I see the 'crazy terrorist' with the Norinco Type 56-1 I always expect him to scream "I Blow You! Mother Bitches!!!!!" hahahahahaha.''

Haha, I should have recognized him! It was indeed Shaun Toub [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0869467/] who played both the crazy(er) terrorist with the AK folder in "Executive Decision", as well as the store clerk in "Bad Boys". -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

OK, wow, it happens that you post on my Talk Page at the same time I'm writing a response on yours! Haha. Thanks for the new "44 Minutes" M16 pic. Again, whenever you get around to it...Best, [[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Request==

Excuse me, but I have a request. Could you combine your Remington 870 Folding stock, Ithaca 37, and MP40 images to make the cool looking Ithaca 37 from ''[[The Professionals]]''? You just take the a pistol grip of the Remington, add it on to the Ithaca 37, and then put MP40 stock on it. I would really appreciate it. - [[User:Swordfish941|Swordfish941]]

::Here's a picture

[[Image:Prosm37.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]

==The Last Crusade==
Excellent work with the page, that was always my favorite Indy film (Indiana Jones, I mean). - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I'm glad to here you're doing all the Indiana Jones films, I was so sick of how crappy they were. And I agree, your screencaps look very clear. I have to brighten and sharpen my images just so they can even come close to yours. I just finished brightening and resaving all the Sudden Impact caps so I'll upload them tommorow if all things go well. I should probably go to sleep, it's 3:35am. But tommorow's Saturday and it's spring break from school so who cares? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Re:Redacted==
I can image that movie offended you (and other veterans), it made all soldiers look like pyschopathic rapists. But I cannot say I would want it removed. Why? Because then we are just as one-sided as the admins. on Wikipedia who delete all the negative crap about President Obama (remember how much we criticized that?). While the movie is offensive (as is Bowling for Columbine), they still have guns so who are we to say they are unfit to be documented on here. (but understand I still am for what you said, the movie was very offensive).

I'm a good example of why Redacted should stay on the site (about 4 years ago). I watched the film but didn't know all the guns that well, and thought "I wonder what they are using. What AK is that?" Even though I didn't like the movie these questions still arose. I doubt I'm the only person in the world who's done this, so those who hated the movie but still wanted to know what guns were used are at a loss.

So my vote for deletion is "no". - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Edit: I understand you aren't picking on me, you have every right to hate the movie, as does every veteran. I just think that how you feel about a movie doesn't mean it should be removed from the site. Hopefully you understand what I mean and not think I'm being on sided or anything. I totally agree with you about the film. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== imfdb is now controversial? ==

When did this happen? I haven't seen or heard anything.And if the site is now controversial who is upset about us? [[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]]

==V.I.P.==
Great job with [[V.I.P.]] so far. I haven't seen that show in a million years. I finally got the Dirty Harry movies done! Now I have a ton of other Eastwood films I'm going to do. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I'm not positive on what it is but it ''might'' be a Beretta 21A Bobcat threaded for suppressor, similair to this one:

[[Image:Beretta21ABobcatSuppressed.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Beretta 21A Bobcat threaded for a suppressor - .22 LR.]]

==Fictional Firearm article moves==
I like the changes you made to the fictional firearm titles, but gramatically speaking, the apostrophe should be before the 's'. It would only be placed after if it is a plural word ending in 's'. For example, the possessive of oceans would be oceans'. If it is singular it always ends in "'s" even if the word ends in 's' such as Jesus's. Hope that helps, if you care. -[[User:Unbreakablewatcher|UW]]
::fuck I should have known that. I was tired and it was late. I will change it later. Thx. MPM

==re: Browning BDA==

Nah, unfortunately, I totally forgot about the BDA when I did the page. Gunmaster was the one who recognized it based on your picture. For some reason, I kept thinking it was a Beretta of some kind and spent 20 minutes searching Beretta photos. My brain is kinda dead right now because I let myself get talked into running 8 miles this afternoon, on only 4 hrs. sleep.

I don't think it's a problem if you want to create pages for some new guns that may/may not be in movies. The only thing I find annoying is when people make pages for guns that ''couldn't'' appear in movies because they're only rare prototypes or variants that you know armorers wouldn't have (like the original SR9). Also, if you ever want to upload your MAG-7 shotgun picture, we can put it on the ''[[Romeo + Juliet]]'' page. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Barb Wire==

Hey,

It's awesome you're screencapping ''[[Barb Wire]]'', but I thought I'd make some comments here (so we don't have edit conflicts) after looking at the screencaps with my eagle eyes ;)

*(1.) The SIG-Sauer is a P228, not a P226. You can see in the first shot that the trigger guard is rounded, not squared like on the 226. Denzel Washington used an identical gun (maybe even the same one) in the movie "Virtuosity", with that same custom laser-control grip. LMO has a picture of it on their site under their "Movie Guns" section.
*(2.) The gun you IDed as a Browning Hi-Power also seems to be the two-tone P228.
*(3.) The Congressionals' M16s look to me like the MGC replica M16s, except with A2 handguards and A1 flash hiders. If you look closely, it seems they have the same style forward assist as the MGC M16s.

Here's the "Virtuosity" P228, which, again, looks like it's the same one that's used in "Barb Wire": http://www.longmountain.com/movieguns/Virtuosity

-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

:''also you notice that there's a bunch more guys posting FULL frame screengrabs? versus widescreen? should I replace a full frame shot with a widescreen of the same shot (thus showing more of the picture?)..... MPM''

:I don't think it matters TOO much. I use widescreen myself when I can, but full frame is fine, too. As long as the guns are visible, that will do. :)

:As far as replacing the Franken-guns, go for it. I've said before - nobody's entitled to complain when you replace images because yours are better (and they involve actual effort besides just going to Google or Photoshopping other pics). However, I'm starting to wonder how we can even begin to get every single variant. I mean, let's face it...there are SO many different Franken-M16s, H&Ks, etc. that you'd go insane trying to get every little variation. I wouldn't sweat it too much. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

== Image ==

About the picture, remember when the servers switched back in October? Well, two images you uploaded were lost. I wasn't sure if you noticed or not, so I took that image from the old server and uploaded here, and credited to you.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:43, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

== images ==

What with people overwriting images with the same images that are already on the site?

[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Glock23.jpg]
[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Walther-P99-Pistol.jpg]

--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:10, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

==Crank: High Voltage==
I was watching the red band trailer for [[Crank: High Voltage]] and I took some caps but the video quality was so crappy only one of the pics was even close to site-worthy. Since you seem pretty good at finding excellent quality HD trailers, I was wondering if you could take a look at it. That is if you aren't too busy. Thanks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Enemy at the Gates==
I watched ''[[Enemy at the Gates]]'' last night and saw some guns you missed, so I added the caps to the page, as well as a few minor add ons to the existing guns. It's your page of course so you decide what can stay or go. I tried to make every shot I took very important and took as few as possible. You may notice my images match yours pretty close, I finally figured out how to match your cap format. I need to brighten a little more though, they still look too dark. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
: Like I said, it is ''your'' page, you can remove any images I added if you don't like them. I only added one image to the Mosin Nagant section so Joseph Fiennes could have an image for his page if needed, and added two to the sniper version, because they were pretty good close ups. I also added three shots to the Kar98k sniper section, although the closeup in his room isn't the best so I suppose it could go. It's all up to you. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==RE:==

I definitely do not remember that one being in the third "Die Hard" movie. Our page doesn't have it, either. Hmmm...

As for the last post: '''"All you need for a movie is a girl and a gun."''' - Jean-Luc Godard (and yeah, he was a commie bastard, but he spoke wisdom on this point) -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
:A DEA agent used one in ''[[Con Air]]'' if you were wondering. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Yeah, I'm replying to what you said in Matt's talk page. Now that I think of it, that ''could'' be th gun Pamela Anderson is holding. I'll check out Bionic Woman now. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Category:B&W==
Hey MPM, I like your new sub-category for B&W films I came up with an idea for you. How about a category for Widescreen since it did not exist until after World War II somewhere about 1951 or 1952. Just a thought for you. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]
: Happy Easter to you too MPM. Don't let them get to you. - [[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

==Bionic Woman==

Nice job on the page! It needs gun photos and links, of course, but we'll get on that. Anyway, here are some quick observations...

*(1.) The MP5s you IDed as MP5A4s seem to have collapsible stocks, which makes them MP5A5s.
*(2.) The Serbian gangster's pistol, which you IDed as an S&W 5904, looks like a Browning BDA (the DA version of the Hi-Power, not the BDA-380).
*(3.) John got the last two right...they are a CZ-75 (or some clone) and a two-tone Walther P99, respectively.

Take care. Hope you had a happy Easter! Also, when I get home (I'm at work now...ugh) I'll have to put in my "Die Hard III" DVD and see where that Seecamp 32 that's on LMO's site appeared. I really don't remember it, but I'll look for you. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:53, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

==RE:==

Ah, thanks for the new gun pictures! We '''really''' needed a two-tone Walther P99 because there are a LOT of movies that have them (''[[The Bourne Supremacy]]'', ''[[Underworld]]'', ''[[A History of Violence]]'', ''[[Far Cry (2009)|Far Cry]]'', etc.) I thought about asking you for one a while ago, but decided I should let you prioritize other stuff. Also, while I don't have screencaps for it, there were Browning BDAs used by Tibetan separatists in an episode of ''[[Ultimate Force]]'', so we can use that one on that page, too.

''Also what is with the gigantic ... but blurry ... screenshots that I see other users uploading?''

What do you mean? Can you show me examples? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

==Spawn AMT 380 Backup Pistol==
Hey MPM, That AMT 380 Backup Pistol that's used in Spawn is just dirty or due to the lighting. AMT built the Backups in Stainless Steel only with the frame and top of the slide bead blasted. My aunt worked at AMT and I knew Harry Sanford since I was a kid until he passed away. - [[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]
:Hey MPM, No problem on the id for the Backup. AMT which was the last name for that company had several locations. As a kid I went to two different El Monte shops and my aunt worked at both Covina and Irwindale. I think my aunt has a couple of the earlier Backups I will see if I can get a photo of them. I filled in a few blank spots on unknown weapons on pages. It was fun doing that as making new pages can get a little tiring. - [[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

==AMT==

The AMT Backup is really nice! It's good we have a picture of one for my ''Spawn'' page. I was about to upload a Google image search result, but obviously, yours is waaayy better.

So, I checked "Die Hard III" (got through about an hour last night, another hour this afternoon) and I don't know where the hell that Seecamp .32 appears in the movie. Either my eagle eyes are failing me (possible), or LMO got their facts wrong. Or maybe it was rented for "Die Hard III" for a scene that wasn't filmed. But it appears nowhere in the finished film that I can tell. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:32, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Scarface talk page ==

Yeah, now that I read what it said you're probably right. I just assumed it was some anonymous user trying to cause trouble. Whether it was or not, you're right - the discussion there is invalid now so I got rid of it again. Thanks for prompting me to take a second look, you were definitely right. Oh and a quick sidenote, the ''[[Bionic Woman]]'' page is looking great! You certainly put a good deal of work into that it looks like. I didn't get to see it when it was on but it looks pretty good from the caps you got. [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 03:53, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

==High Standard 8111 page==
Hey MPM,I placed your High Standard K120 Shotgun photo on this page although the page name is not correct. [[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] listed it by the High Standard catalog number 8111 instead of the Model name '''High Standard FLITE KING'''. If you could fix this please. Thanks - [[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]
:Hey MPM, Thanks for the correction on the page. - [[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

== Re: Thanks ==

I can certainly understand the burnout feeling, especially when working with TV shows with so many episodes. That would be great if they would get those pictures; IMFDB is certainly indebted to you for all the hard work you're doing to get us exclusive pictures like that! [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 07:35, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

==RE: Did you take this picture?==
No, I just jacked it from google and touched it up with photoshop. Feel free to replace it whenever you want. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==RE:==

That would be REALLY cool if you got pictures of some of the sci-fi guns. There are a lot of pics of the Moritas floating around the 'Net, but most of them are (A.) shit quality, or (B.) the rubber stunt versions. We both know yours will inevitably be 100x better! Haha.

Also, I notice you were curious about these machine pistols from ''[[Timecop]]'':

[[Image:TimeCop-AutoGunS00a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|]]

I don't know what this damn thing is called, but it appears in quite a few TV shows and movies. Excalibur got some GREAT pics of them appearing in ''[[Smallville]]'':

[[Image:Clownrobbers2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

They also appeared in at least one episode of the TV show ''[[Viper]]'' (which also had the ''[[Timecop]]'' Taurus PT99 in its pilot episode) and I think I remember seeing them in an episode of ''[[The X-Files]]'' as well. Some of the ones used in ''[[Smallville]]'' seem to be the same ones used in ''[[Battlestar Galactica]]'', and we have a picture of a rubber stunt version:

[[Image:Gun Cylon stunt.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

Do you think your Canadian armorer acquaintances would have any idea what they might be? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:46, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

That "Cylon Gun" is a different one, look at the cocking handle on the side. It's similar, but different. Also, I can get some Moritas up, though they are Watermarked from the site I got them off. -protoAuthor

== Re: Image overwrites ==

I agree with you about the overwrites, I think you should be only one who is allowed to decide whether your images are to be overwritten or not. It just annoys me when some random user overwrites one of your images when it's not theirs. BTW, Great job on you most recent gun pictures.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 20:55, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

==Re: Old Movies==
Hey MPM, Thanks for the compliment on the old movies that I have been posting. Some of them are harder to get clean screencaps on as the master has not been restored. But that is something I a lot of in my own library so I will keep filling the empty spots. I also have westerns dating back than also those will come in due time. One more note for you as it is important to both of us SAG signed Friday and will announce Monday. - [[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

== re: bourne ==

Thanks! Yeah, I figured that because of its age and its less action-oriented story it would have less guns but it surprised me! Trying to identify that rifle really bothered me, I looked through a bunch of H&K and SIG rifles but then when I saw the side shot of it (which is much too brief), I wondered the same thing about the Ruger. That was really the only trouble I had save for the two pistols I currently have labelled as "unidentified" and the CZ-82 I had labelled as a Makarov (but GM45 helped out a good bit with identifying that, as well as noting the Beretta as an original 92 model rather than the 92S I had it labelled as). All in all it wasn't a bad movie at all, if some parts were a little slow (probably to draw in a more diverse audience rather than the typical espionage/action crowd. [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 18:56, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

==Re: New images==

'''Nice!''' I'm so glad we have a two-tone Jericho now. It seems like every other action movie made these days features the lead bad guy using a gun in the exact same configuration. As far as getting a two-tone FS model, I think it's mostly the British armorers who use that model because as best I know, the 941FS was the only version ever sold in Europe. I think the two-tone 941FS pistols that you see in ''[[Hot Fuzz]]'', ''[[Casino Royale]]'', ''[[Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life]]'', and ''[[Children of Men]]'' are all the exact same gun, because all of those shows were supplied by Crowntower, Ltd. (according to credits). It's likely that you're seeing the same pistol being reused in many films. Fortunately, there are plenty of American action movies which use the original model with the slide safety in two-tone (i.e. my page for ''[[Under Siege 2: Dark Territory]]'').

I'm also happy to have a good Benelli M3, too! Thanks again for all of these. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:51, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Nice! ==

Awesome work on the new pictures, we needed a two tone Jericho 941. From the looks of it many of the movies on here use the early model Jerichos, the only page I've seen that had a Jericho without the safety on the slide is [[District B13]]. Anyway, Thanks for the new gun pictures, they're highly appreciated. By the way, is there a such thing as a reverse two tone Jericho 941? Just wondering.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:11, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
::Excellent work, I kind of missed seeing your work. Screencaps improve the site but your images complete it :). If the '94 doesn't have a saddle ring or holes for one, it isn't a saddle ring. I'd say its a Trapper Carbine, is the barrel 16"?

==Re:==

Nice picture...I would say how about a Vertec section under the Beretta 92 page? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:42, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

if you watch 2:55:58 of a bridge to far you will see german soldiers with m1 garands , I think they must have had a shortage of k98k's in this film.

== Hey MPM ==

Someone is using your Lee-enfield No1 MkIII picture in this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Enfield_rifle
[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:06, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

==Taps==
I remember you asked if I had Mr. & Mrs. Smith and Taps, and guess what? I bought Taps. I have it sitting in my screencapping box and will try to do it soon. I also grabbed Appaloosa, which I've been meaning to grab for a while. I'll be screencapping that now. :)

This is irrelevant, but I got to hand a Federal M201-Z gas gun today. I went to this man's house who was a former Correctional Officer, and he owns one. He said he owned a gas gun and I asked if it was a Federal M201-Z, which shocked him since most people don't know these guns off the top of their head. Needless to say I thought it was awesome. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Thank you for Troll Removal==
Thank you for removing the troll who was among other things messing with the content of the M16 page. I've gone through and undid several other posts by this person as they contributed nothing to the pages modified. Rockwolf66

==Re:Chuck guns==

An armorer from ISS has been sending me photographs of stuff from their inventory that has appeared in movies and TV shows, including the guns from "Chuck". I'm also going to be posting photos of an M1903 Springfield from "Letters from Iwo Jima" and a nickel PPK from the "Austin Powers" movies that he sent me, too.

Also, did you check out some of the pics I posted on ''[[The Spirit]]'' page? I got great pics of Samuel L. Jackson's revolvers from that movie, and of the O/U shotguns he used, plus Eva Mendes' Beretta Jetfire. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:38, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

== RE:WTF? ==

As much as I love the Resident Evil videogames and it's guns, I would have to say no to a Samurai Edge page. The Samurai Edge is basically a Beretta 92FS with modified parts, but is still visually the same looking gun, not too different to be worth noting on anything else beside the videogame pages, mockups such as the Aliens' Pluse Rifle are a different story. Plus, not only did he make the page, but it seems that the user copied and pasted the entire article off the Resident Evil Wiki up to the placement of the images, See here [http://residentevil.wikia.com/wiki/Samurai_Edge], and you'll notice everything is the same. I would say delete the page, but I would get word from MT2008, and GM45 before doing anything.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 00:45, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

:Plagiarism is a huge no-no. So, it is now gone. I would maybe say OK to an entry on the Beretta 92 pistol series page, but certainly not if everything is copied word-for-word from another Wiki. If we see that, there's no reason not to shoot (delete) on sight. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:57, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

No problem MPM2008, I deleted the article.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

==Re: 7.7mm Arisaka Type 02 Paratrooper Takedown rifle==
Hey MPM, Same that people have to chisel others out of what they have. I know how that goes I just try not to think about it anymore. The 7.7mm Arisaka Type 02 Paratrooper Takedown rifle was at Ellis Mercantile as that was were the guns came from for Dirty Harry except for the Model 29. I looked at it and just shook my head at what they did to sporterize them. We also had the 7.7mm Arisaka Type 02 Paratrooper Takedown rifle that was used in the Manchurian Candidate. -[[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

==Tutone Taurus PT92 AFS==
Your images are always useful. I put it on the [[Shoot 'Em Up]] page, as that is the only page off the top of my head that I know has that gun in it. Excellent work as always. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:Thanks, I didn't even notice that. Again, excellent image. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Remington 700P==
MPM, as far as the PSS entry goes someone was converting all of the 700PSS entries to 700P entries. I put a bit of data on the 700 Police entry so that hopefully People will realize that not every black remington 700 is a P model. I myself own a 700P in .300 Winmag and someday I should try and get a good photo of is so that we can referance the barrel contures. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 23:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:I am changing all the 700P entrys back to PSS enties.Still as I'm not at home and I don't own a PSS I'm not going to make any judgements on if the rifles really are P models or PSS models. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 20:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

==Shotgun Blanks==
Hi MPM, I was wondering if you could help me out with something. Me and my dad are building 12 Gauge shotgun blanks with a reloading press for a movie I'm making in June with some friends, and we were wondering, is there an alternative method of packing in the power than to keep the plastic wad in? Because that plastic wad can be lethal and while we know are safety, sometimes we have to fire blanks at people. Now, he figures something like a wad of cardboard could replace it, but we don't want to try anything unsafe without some more information.

Since a box of 20 blanks is $30 bucks, we figure shotgun blanks are way cheaper to make ourselves. I hope you know a method, or else I may have to pull out the heavy kevlar vests my dad has ;). Or we are going to have to use a LOT more camera tricks. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Taurus PT92 ==

Hey MPM2008, thanks for the new Taurus PT92 pictures, they're amazing, especially the two tone ones, keep up the good work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 06:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

:Yeah, I greatly appreciate those pics, too! The one with the wood grips looks identical to the PT92 that I used to own (although I replaced the wood grips with a set of Hogues not long after I got it). And the two-tone is awesome - did you make it with ''Darkman II'' in mind? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== Reply ==

You're welcome, and yeah, I remember the days when we had those crappy images. I even used to be impressed by some of them, but then when you came along, you showed we otherwise, and now I can't stand looking at airsoft images on this site. No one can shoot gun pictures better then you. And awesome work on the Mossberg 590, [[User: Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] asked for it, and there's a place for it on the [[Dead Presidents]] page, I'll be sure to put it there right now. Thanks once again, you have out did yourself once again.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

No problem, and don't worry, I'm sure you're fine. We all get that way after alot of hard work. And by the way, is that Mossberg 590 something that should go on [[MoviePropMaster2008: IMFDB's Own Armorer|your page]]?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:Haha, Alienqueen beat me to the punch. But I agree...of course your images are so much better than airsoft images. Remember when our SP89 image used to be a picture of an airsoft MP5K with an SP89-style hand guard? I cringe at the memory now.

:BTW, sorry I haven't been on so much recently, but between the move out of my apartment in TX and my crash-course in Arabic, I've been pretty busy. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

==Mossberg 590 from Dead Presidents==

Thanks for finally uploading it with the wood furniture, now the page looks cooler. I also saw you uploaded a Model 36 Flat Latch so I'll change that if it hasn't already been altered. ~[[User:yournamehere|Yournamehere]]

==Re: Inox==

Yeah, two-tone P226s are pretty common in movies. The "reverse two-tone" from ''[[2 Fast 2 Furious]]'' is rare (mostly because it wasn't available that way from the factory), but the normal two-tone (nickel slide, black frame, nickel controls) has been in plenty of movies. At the very least, I figured we needed one for the ''[[Face/Off]]'' and ''[[Bad Boys II]]'' pages, since the tutone P226 is very prominently featured in both of those movies.

As far as the Inox goes, whenever you can get around it, please do it. The fact that we don't have a good image of a 92FS Inox is kind of embarrassing, since the stock image used on our Beretta 92 series page has appeared on almost 75 movie/TV show pages now. The way I see it, the more a gun image appears on IMFDB, the more urgent it is that it needs to be replaced if it hasn't received the MPM2008 treatment yet.

And yes, I agree that the newer Inox Berettas are pretty ugly; the fact that the controls are now black was obviously done to lower production costs. The older ones look way better. Also, I don't think I've seen an Inox with black controls in a movie (besides ''[[Shaft]]'', which featured those cheap 8mm blank replicas that also had black controls), and as I know we agree, it's best to use guns that look identical to the ones which our visitors have seen in their favorite action films. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:29, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

==Something you should check out==

Have you seen this:

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:MostImages

This shows the most-used images on IMFDB, and of course, they're all gun images. Anyway, you can see that most of them are gun images you uploaded, but a few in the Top 25 aren't. The Browning M2 image that was uploaded by Bunni when this site was started has been on 108 pages, the Inox image has been on 74, and the M60 has been on 70.

Anyway, I mention it because I think it's a good guide for stuff to prioritize. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:37, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

==MP5K request==
I apoligize for requesting an image (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to yet or not [?]) but I've noticed that more and more movies use SEF MPK5s with the foregrips removed to make them machine pistols (including ''[[Taken]]'' which I just finished screencapping) so I figured you'd be the man to find one. Thanks, and again sorry. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== RE: Calico Weapons page ==

Great work, The page looks great. The Calico Rifles are probably the most futuristic guns I've seen, they look like something out of Star Wars. I'll be sure to keep a look out for any Calicos on movie pages, I listed Bad Boys on th page just now.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 19:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:Well, it's interesting you say that, Alienqueen, considering that the Calicos have been around for over 20 years now!

:MPM: The page looks much, MUCH better now. I suck with Calicos myself (now that they're so much harder to find), and I get lost with the different variants. Also, have you ever noticed that Calico used to call their weapons the "Liberty I" and "Liberty II"? What is with the "Liberty" nomenclature, and which guns does it apply to?

:Oh, yeah, and are you sure the ''Deep Rising'' Calicos are the M955A? Not saying you're wrong, just that I personally can't tell the barrel length with those fake rotating barrels on them. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:50, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

::OK, thanks for the explanation about the "Liberty" thing. As far as ''Deep Rising'' goes, what you are saying makes sense.

::I have one other question which you might be able to help me with...can you tell what kind of optics are used on the M1-L1s in ''[[Deep Rising]]''? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey MPM, I have a request for you. When I was at Ellis Mercantile we had a pair of custom M-100's built by LaFrance Specialties for a show. Would it be okay to change your M-100 into that configuration? Or you can set it up yourself as there is a photo of it on World Guns.ru smg .Let me know when you can. Thanks. -[[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

:Hey MPM, Ellis supplied LaFrance with M100 rifles and he made pistols out of them. They are different then the M110 pistols as they still have the rifle looks. I can mod you photo with you permission and then upload it under LaFrance Specialties M100 Calico Pistol. If it's not up to you standard on the photo when I upload it delete it.Let me know when you can. Thanks. -[[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

::Hey MPM, The LaFrance Calicos were sold when the Ellis Gun Room was sold off. I have access to the rental records for them so I can find out what show they were built for. As for a photo World Guns.ru has a photo of one from LaFrance. -[[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

:Hey MPM, I uploaded the image of the LaFrance built M100 Calico Pistol. I know that Ellis had two of these I will check with Syd to see if they had them also. The photo is not as good as yours but it will work for now unless you modify one of you photos to match. I don't think we will ever see these in the film industry again. -[[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

== Small Request ==

Hey, MPM2008, I'm not sure if you're still calling a hiatus on requests at this time, but if you're not, I would like to know if you can upload another Remington 870 Police riot shotgun like the one here [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Remington870PoliceStd.jpg], but with synthetic furniture if you get the chance. Thanks, and sorry if I added to your list.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 19:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

== Experimental Guns ==

I say get rid of any experimental or old gun pages, since they have no chance of appearing in anything anyway, Cutaway created way too many pages like that. But we should keep the ones you created since you're a movie armorer, and like you said, they're already blank adopted, so they have a chance at appearing in a movie eventually, plus they're nice pictures. So my opinion is to get rid of the experimental guns, and keep the pages you created even if they don't appear in anything because you never when you'll be called to a set or work on a movie that will need them.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 20:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've already deleted a whole bunch of Cutaway's gun pages that don't appear in movies. If you want to delete any more, I think it's fine. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== Greetings! ==

Hello MPM2008, I'm a new user to this site, 500Magnum. I just would like to express how I think your pictures are the bomb! I have never seen such fine looking pictures in my lifetime. Keep up all that hard work!
- [[User:500Magnum|500Magum]]

==S&W 60==
It's okay, it seems like a pretty easy mistake to make when a gun is improperly labeled by the factory. I'm actually somewhat relieved it actually IS a model 60, because now I don't have to find the image and change it to a Model 36 Satin nickel on all the captions where the image was used on a movie page. I'm glad you cleared that up. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Ich verstehe nicht==

I figured this would be your kinda movie! It even has the hottie from ''Downfall'' toting automatic weapons (though she gets killed early on, sadly). It's a pretty good movie; one of the CT analysts I used to work with recommended it to me.

I'm going to start uploading my screencaps soon. Maybe you can help me with some of the guns I'm not sure about. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

==FN 303 pic==

Thanks for the new FN303 pic-[[User:SB2296|SB2296]]

==Use of Pictures==
Hey, MPM, a friend of mine on another forum is making a continuing thread about "Fantastic Firearms". With pictures. I was wondering if I could say he could use your pictures in his article, since they're so awesome. -protoAuthor
:Also, could you get a good picture of a sawed-off Remington 870 with an Enforcer pistol grip?

==RE:==

First of all, I'm sorry I merged the Zastava M70 page without asking you. However, I didn't '''delete''' the page for that gun; I simply copied the text onto the AK-47 page and then '''re-directed''' the page to go to the Zastava M70 entry on the AK-47 page. If you type in "Zastava M70" in the search engine, it will take you to the new page.

If you want to change it back, that's cool, but I must ask you to consider whether your objections have merit. You seem to be worried that people won't be able to find the Zastava M70; if we do '''re-directs''', then this doesn't happen. And remember that our previous discussion about where to put the M70 was before we knew how to do re-directs.

Also, if SB2296 actually '''deleted''' the PSL page without doing a re-direct, then he is '''not''' doing the same thing I do. I would never want users to be confused; but I think that with re-directs, this doesn't happen. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

:The M70 may be built on an RPK receiver, but surely you can't deny that its '''role''' is that of an automatic rifle, not an LMG or squad automatic weapon (like the RPK)? Everything else about the gun is roughly AK-based (albeit with the many modifications specific to Serb needs, like the GL sight). That's how I see it - the AK-47 page is more-or-less intended for AK-type '''rifles''', not light machine guns. And the M70 is, fundamentally, still a rifle, even if it's built on an LMG receiver. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

::You raise a good point, and I actually considered moving the Galil and Valmet pages a while ago. Which raises another point - I wound up not doing it because the Valmet M78 and Galil look very different from the AK-47 or AKM, even though the receiver design is very similar. Whereas the M70 still does look like an AK, and is usually used to impersonate Russian AK variants in movies. On the other hand, I would ''maybe'' consider moving the Valmet M78 to the RPK page, since we both know that the M78 has most often been used in Hollywood to impersonate RPKs.

::Again, I don't want to sound like I'm fighting you too much or anything, and I don't want us to get '''too''' upset about this. I only raise these points because I think it's worth asking ourselves how to be consistent in our classification scheme. These are, of course, issues that are inherent to guns that don't fit into a particular page or category so easily.

::Also, before I forget...thanks so much for the new pictures you've uploaded recently! Where did you get those Howa Type 89s? It says on Wikipedia that the Type 89 was never exported out of Japan. It's also really nice that we have a good Blaser R93 picture. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

==FPK / PSL Sniper Rifle Page==
Hey MPM, I changed the FPK / PSL Sniper Rifle page back to it original format and added info explaining that the weapon is based on the stamped receiver RPK and not the Dragunov. Some think that it's a SVD but it's not it's more like a Yugo .308 AK. So all in good now. -[[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

==RE: Why do people forget Category:Movie?==

Yeah, I agree with you there. It just annoyed me because it's right in the description before they create page using the box, but like you said, it's probably better if they don't. One thing I hate the most is having a visitor find their favorite movie in the Categories, and clicking on it to find a blank or poorly made page, but hopefully that problem will be phased out with time. By the way, I got rid of and deleted those crappy movie templates that [[User: Dragon]] made, so you guys don't have to worry about seeing them anymore. Best Regards.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 07:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

== Picture Request ==
i am really sorry to bother you with this but i would like you to take a picture of a AK-74 and AK-74M. I am really sorry MPM2008 but i love your pictures and we need a AK-74 and AK-74M Picture.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:34, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Bren Ten "Peregrine Falcon". I can get you a picture.==
Hey, MPM, I've got a book with a picture of the Bren Ten, I could scan that for you if you'd like. It is old and black and white, though.-protoAuthor
:Done, put it on the "Last Action Hero" page. It also appears that tutone is standard, because that picture is from a gun digest.-protoAuthor

== PT99 ==

We can use these images to the page of the PT99? - [[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]]
[[Image:MindPt99.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]
[[Image:TauPt99O.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]

== Re: Red Heat Link ==

No problem, I think those linked headings were there for ages before you started editing. Anyway, awesome work on the page, it looks hundreds of times better now. Is the Podbyrin picture you uploaded the actual gun from the movie? It looks great.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:37, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Podbyrin ==

Yeah, I just noticed the trigger guard after I sent the message, but no, don't remove it, despite the trigger guard, it's perfect. Plus it's nice to have another unique gun on this site, and it may be the only high resolution picture of the Podbyrin on the net. Thanks again for the new picture, and by the way, thanks alot for the Two Tone M1911A1 you uploaded a few days, it's one of my favorite images on the site.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 00:59, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

== Nice Podbyrin Pic! ==

Sweet! I like that picture. I haven't seen [[Red Heat]], but I've been dying to see the Podbyrin 9.2mm. Good work MPM2008! -[[User:500Magnum|500Magnum]]

:It looks better! But please don't butcher a 92SB (which are kind of rare nowadays) to achieve the same effect in real life! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:26, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::I can't even tell it is photoshopped. You may have noticed my comment on the Podbyrin page noting the wrong trigger guard. Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't a Walther P38 trigger guard be better suited, since the gun is a "P38 on steroids"? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

Sorry MPM2008, I cut and pasted your sig block by mistake as a quick means of leaving my signature. I sometimes have the habit of pasting and modding words to get things done quicker, anyway i have corrected the mistake on the talk page - [[User:Cutaway]] 03:21AM (UTC)

==Matrix screencap==
I noticed you replaced my screencap with this:

[[Image:Matrix-TwinMP5Kfirea.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

If it is any consolation, I had planned to reupload all of the images resized, sharpened, and brightened. Now that school will be over at the end of next week, I'll have more free time to get it done (as well as the other Matrix films). - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:It's no big deal or anything (and I did think it was cool you grabbed the same frame), I just thought I'd let you know incase you had planned to replace my screencaps or something. My sisters laptop stretches images for some reason, I can fix that too but it is a tad harder... - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::I didn't do it to be immature, I did it because your images make mine look like crap in comparison and I figured it stood out too much. Even with all the image editing I did I couldn't get the color contrast correct. Sorry... - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:::It's alright, I understand your frustration and I've definately run into petty people on the net before. Keep an eye out for Matrix Reloaded, it's my next project. :) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Czech BRNO VZ24 Mauser==
Hey MPM, The Czech BRNO VZ24 Mauser Rifles built before the war were similar to the M24 Yugo or 1935 Peruvian with straight bolt handle, long handguard and different rear sight. It was during the war that the Germans changed them to K98K standard. We had them both in Ellis Mercantile pre-war VZ24 and wartime production. I think that if it is a VZ24 wartime production it should be in the K98k page as they were K98k but the pre war rifles should be on the Mauser Rifle page. - [[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

==Small Request==
MPM, I know you're not taking requests right now, but I have a small one compared to my last request (The Proffessionals Ithaca 37; I'm sorry about adding it to your to-do list). Could you possibly create a Cobray M11/9 with a MAC-11 style stock (the parts are interchangable, right)? We could use it for our ''[[S.W.A.T.]]'' and ''[[Hard Boiled]]'' pages. Thanks and have a great summer. - [[User:Swordfish941|Swordfish941]]

==CZ75 WITHOUT Ring Hammer==
Hey, MPM, protoAuthor here. Do you have an early-edition CZ75? One without the ring hammer, but with the...damn, forget the term, but the 1911-looking hammer. Just wondering if you could get a picture of one up here, for articles like Gunsmith Cats. No biggie if you don't, I can probably find a good picture on JC Devine some day-protoAuthor

==Seven Days==

Yes, I am an absent-minded moron. I admit it. I even checked the page history and then forgot who I was planning to address. :)

Anyway, watching the AVIs of ''[[Seven Days]]'' has made me realize what a ridiculous number of franken-M16s there are in the biz. This show has some of the same XM177 mock-ups seen in ''[[The Rock]]'' and other movies/TV shows - the ones that have M16A2 receivers but chopped barrels with the fake XM177-style compensators. I've seen some episodes that also feature M16 SP1s with A2 hand guards and A1 flash hiders (just like in ''[[The X-Files]]''). Any chance you'd be willing to do some more franken-M16 pictures, or let me Photoshop a few? (of course, I won't do it without your permission)

Here's a couple from Season 1 episodes:

[[Image:Vlcsnap-00061.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Vlcsnap-00067.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Vlcsnap-00023.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Vlcsnap-00040.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Thanks again. Hope work hasn't been too bad for you. I just watched a TV show where an actor threw down his M16A1 (a real one, not one of the rubber stunt versions) and thought of what you told us in that forum topic. Haha. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:58, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Honoring Actors who have passed away ==

Read your suggestion about the addon for the pages of deceased actors/ actresses, and I think it'd be a good idea. I also have a couple other additions for that list, namely [[Alexander Godunov]] and [[Heath Ledger]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
::I think it's a great idea. I could find some good screenshots of Carradine from the Kill Bill movies if you want, so we don't grab a google image or something. (edit: I checked the page, your image is just fine). It's a shame about Carradine, not the most honorable way to go :( - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:Hey MPM, I think it's a GREAT idea to honor the actors that have passed away. I think that it would raise the level of IMFDB another notch considering that people from the industry are now checking out this site more often. What ever you do on this I will use on a lot of my pages since it's mostly B&W and those actors are gone for the most part. - [[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]
Glad you liked the Heston photo with his DOB and DOD. That was my contribution. I think you're onto something.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 06:02, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
== Re: Godunov? ==

According to his Wikipedia article, he passed away in May 1995 due to a combination of alcohol abuse and Hepatitis complications. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:28, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

==Honoring Actors who have passed away==

That's a very good idea, I say go for it. I would be great to honor some of the greatest actors seen in movies. [[Roy Scheider]] is a good one too, I was going to put something on the Jaws page for him, but I wasn't sure how it would work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:17, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== Over reacting ==

Ok, I might agree the Team America one deleting might have been over doing it. I was just pissed off that no one cares about South Park, The Simpsons, and American Dad, not to mention Family Guy. I see HUGE discussions on what kind of weapons they are using when clearly most of them were fictional guns drew up because the guy drawing doesnt know a thing about guns or wasnt told to be more detail with them, the rest of the shows look like doodles, why make the guns look like guns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:34, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

== VG guns ==

Well some games can be forgiven to be a little bit lack of detail, but quite a few games do go out, record the sound of the real gun shots and use those in the final production, the bigger problem most gamers has with VG guns is more on their accuracy and power compared to the real thing. VG developers sometimes significantly just make guns that would be powerful and accurate as hell weak as fuck for the sake of game balance. And going with Modern Warfare 2, some of the guns are just stupid for what real world special forces would use. I mean the Bushmaster ACR? I can see how it has military uses, but I don't even think it was even considered for military use. Russian Ultranationalist using AUGs and FAMAS? Spas 12s? Oh yeah and the one big thing a Kriss Super V. That thing last I heard wasn't even in full production yet and they somehow have Russian terrorists get ahold of one? At least with COD4, they were semi consistent with what primary guns people use, the SAS and Marines using M4 weapons, the enemy using AKs, but the random USPs, Berettas and the one mission where you as the SAS trooper holding and M24 sniper rifle was just piss poor. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

== RE: VG guns ==
I agree with you MPM, but only because most of those experimental and rare guns are pieces of shit. For exemple, look at how many games have the XM8! The XM8 sucks ass and video game developers love them. The same thing happens with the XM29. It's a piece of shit and video game developers love them because it looks futuristic and cool. It also happens wtih the SPAS-12. It's really fucking weird to see a discontinued, really expensive shotgun being used by police or Military soldiers in video games.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:55, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

:Speaking as someone who first got into modern military/LE weaponry by doing weapons skins for ''[[Half-Life]]'' mods in my teens, I can say that most game dev teams really have no common sense when it comes to weapons. The SPAS-12 is actually a very good example. I remember on my first mod (which never got finished), there was a lot of disagreement amongst the members of my team over what type of shotgun we were going to have. Most members wanted the SPAS-12 because they all thought it looked cooler, while I wanted a pistol-grip Mossberg with heat shield (I had just been to a gun show where I had the chance to hold one, and being 17, I thought it was the coolest gun ever). Ultimately, the SPAS-12 won out when we voted on our forum. Of course, this was an unprofessional mod being designed by high school and college students, but most of the professional teams in the business aren't that much different - the designers are all geeks who have zero real-life experience with firearms. Whenever they choose which guns are going to appear in the game, the team members almost always pick what they've seen in other video games or their favorite movies. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

== RE: SPAS 12 ==
Yes, the SPAS-12 apears in movies all the time, however, i was talking about how it's weird to see SPAS-12s being used by Militarys and terrorist/criminals because they are discountinued(I probably spelled that wrong) and expensive. The SPAS-12 does needs a place in IMFDB. So does the XM8 even though the only XM8s that appear in movies and television are Mock-ups like the ones in XXX 2.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:52, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

==Understood==

Yeah, I should've responded on Oliveira's page. I got carried away again... -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

== thank you for editing ==

Thank you for your editing of things specifically the star trek page which looks great now. You're Awsome!!!!!!

==Re: Our own movie==

OK, so the idea of IMFDB doing its own action movie (with an actual budget, storyline, and production staff) is a total fantasy, but here's something a little more grounded in reality: What would you think of a short home-made video where we show off some blank-adapted firearms, provide narration describing how they work, maybe even do a brief firing demo where we fire a few rounds through a pistol at someone's range? IMFDB already has a YouTube account (under Bunni's name) - we would just post it there. Nothing too fancy - just a video that would explain to people that, contrary to popular belief, the guns they see in movies are real. I'm still amazed at how many people seem to think they're "fake" (just talked to another gun owner on another message board who initially didn't believe me).

Also, that reminds me...what are rental fees at the armories nowadays? Does it cost significantly more to rent adapt a blank-adapted pistol as it costs me to rent an unmodified pistol from my local range? Of course, I'm guessing blanks themselves are the bigger expense (since the armories all do their own loads). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:Oh, yeah, and by this, I mean that the blank-adapted firearms in the video would be rented/borrowed from one of the major rental armories. If that's even possible... -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:00, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

::I don't see why the action movie is a fantasy. I could get someone to write us a script, and if we all pooled our resources... We have people who can be actors on this site (myself included), I'm sure. We just need money. How many members do we have?-protoAuthor

:::ProtoAuthor, I have been on some film sets (mostly when I was younger and several major shows were filmed in my home town), and I know enough about the industry to know that that's not a realistic goal.

:::MPM, wow, I had no idea blank costs had risen THAT high, even though my sources have always told me they are more expensive than live rounds. And sorry to hear about the SAG losses, though I remember hearing about it earlier (you're actually one of a couple people I know working in showbiz who have told me the same story about how it affects them).

:::That being said, the best I can say is that I'd rent one of the guns that hasn't "paid for itself" in rentals yet (i.e. one of your Springfield XDs or FNPs), so it would be a step forward to a return on the investment. But I do understand the issue with blanks, that and the fact that I appreciate how hard it is given your schedule. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

:::''rule of thumb is usually 10% of full replacement costs for one week.''

:::So, in other words, an $800 pistol would rent for $80 a week? Does it adjust as a gun loses Blue Book value? (i.e. do Gen 2 Glocks rent for lower prices than Gen 3 Glocks)? Also, I'm guessing daily rentals or student rates aren't SOP? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:13, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

== SAG Strike ==
Ok, i know some things about the SAG strike but i didn't knew it was that bad! Can you tell me how the SAG strike affected movie armourers?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 02:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== new user issue ==

My guess would be an issue with his browser. To troubleshoot I'd suggest first creating a new account using the same computer, if the problem persists I would change to a different browser (ie. Firefox) and if it still persists try a different computer. I bet simply changing browsers will take care of it though. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 02:31, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Much as I hate to be down on a page obvious work has gone into... ==

[[Einhander]]

It's a scrolling shooter where the player controls a spaceship. I can see how two of the pictured weapons could be based on real-life weaponry, but you could say the same of Halo [sniper rifle as NTW-20, assault rifle as FN F2000] and I don't think that's around anymore. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 08:45, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

==Holland & Holland Page==
Thanks for the compliment. Boy I wish one of those H&H rifles pictured were mine. But I'm just a mere mortal who has only held an H&H Double (owned by a wealthy local businessman). And I count myself lucky for that experience. The photos are from the Nitro Express Forums site. http://nitroexpress.com/
But thanks again. I figured it was time that we had a page for those great (and expensive) doubles. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:43, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

== Thanks, and Little help please ==

First thanks for your revamp of the Calico weapons, great photos. Second I was wondering if you could help ID this gun from the Australian show [[Sea Patrol]]:

[[Image:Sea Patrol Revolver 2.png]]

Nothing I find seems right, it looks like a Smith and Wesson but the pattern on the handle seems off. Revolvers aren't my strong suit.

Thanks, and keep up the great photographing.
[[User:Sci Fi Gunner|Sci Fi Gunner]] 22:51, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

==Memorial Photos==
I'm flexible. If that is what folks want done or want to do I won't throw a hissy fit if they replace the photos I added. I've heard from different contributors regarding the memorial photos. Some people like what I've been doing - gives it a Hollywood feeling. But you an a couple others have suggested using screencaps with the actors in their iconic roles. That's the nice thing about imfdb. we can all contribute. For me it's just fun. Good hearing from you. Glad to know that folks are not against the memorial photo idea. Just have different opinions on how to format them. Or is it present? Well you know what I mean. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:47, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

==Test Template Page==
Hey MPM, Nice test page showing the difference between old and new. Adding a new column is easy just have to figure out what to name the column and how wide to max it out. I am working on the AK and M1911 right now to test but I can see right now to add a note section. Let me know what you think. -[[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]
: Hey MPM, Added the notes column check it out. -[[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

==The Daewoo K3==

Hey, MPM, I just made a page for the [[Daewoo K3]]. I just figured out last night (with Steve's help) that some "M249s" in movies are visually-modified K3s (like the one used by [[Kevin Costner]] in ''[[3000 Miles to Graceland]]''). Can you tell me more about the obstacles to buying M249s which led armorers to use the K3? I figured I should get input from both of you on this so that the summary is accurate as possible. Thanks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:Steve says they were apparently cheaper at one time. One thing I've noticed is that the K3s seem to appear mostly in action movies filmed in Canada. If you happen to run into one of the K3s made to look M249-ish, please do tell. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:36, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

== I hate puppets ==

It's not that I hate puppets. It's that I hate taking it seriously. I mean come on. We're talking about what kind of guns they armed little string puppets. Where did they come to the conclusion that I hate puppets? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:40, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

:Yeah, well I got tired of looking at the cartoons, screen caps or not. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

==Rock Island Armory Commander==
Hey MPM, You would not happen to have a photo of a Rock Island Armory Commander. Ben Stiller uses one in [[Starsky & Hutch (2004)]]. -[[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]
:Hey MPM, Good to see that you are busy working I know several that are just looking for some work. The RIA Commander in the photo has Colt Series 70 checkered grips on it. No hurry on the photo as I will put a filler in it place for now. Thanks. -[[User:Phoenixent|Steve]]

== Template ==

Hey MPM2008, I just want to say amazing work on the new template. That is a good example of how a template should look, I can actually see that successfully showing up on more page in the future. It looks millions of times better then the crappy ones Dragon made months ago. Good work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 01:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Thanks but PhoenixEnt designed the original template. I am just playing around with it to try to see what format seems best, and boy is it hard. I sure hope we all agree on something :) MPM2008

I Concur, this will help keep the information neat and organized. This will especially be good to have on certain pages. -[[User:500Magnum|500Magnum]]

The only issue I can potentially see is if no character is seen using something; for example, a remote weapon who's controller isn't identified, a weapon found on the ground but not picked up, or whatever. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 06:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

:Hey MPM, Thanks for the compliment on the template layout. You really brought it out to the for front. I just brought to IMFDB some items we used on another wiki. I do believe that all the Admins will come to the same page on how the final layout will look. It will look great when we all get on board the same train. Thanks Again. -[[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

::I think we should use more, although it'll take alot of work getting used to. I agree to anything that will help the site look neater, plus I would like to see that template on more pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:42, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

==Re:==

*slaps forehead* OK, I admit it, I really am going senile at 23. Either that or the fact that I had my Arabic final yesterday and have been sleep-deprived for the better part of the week. Sorry, but don't take it personally. Oh, and nice job. ;) -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:08, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

==Standardize Template Layout==
Hi, As we are moving forward with the new layout on the Guns and Actors pages. We need to finalize a standard layout for the Template. We have been changing gun pages over and they do look better but everyone has their own style. Dates for instance some are on the right side some on the left, some have the most current movie at the top and some have the oldest. Then we have other issues like the headers are different from one poster to another. We need to fix these issues now before we have a ton of double work to do. Please give you feedback on pages completed like the [[M1911 pistol series]] and the [[Steyr AUG]] so we can have a standard on these pages. Thanks - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

I prefer Chronological order as well, since it neatly documents each year the guns appeared each year without needing a character to use it.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:37, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

:I figured there was already a consensus that we do things by chronological order? I definitely agree with the idea, 100%. Also, in situations where we have multiple movies featuring the same gun in one year, then we go to alphabetical order within those years only. For example, if we have listed ten films, all released in 1996, that feature the Beretta 92F, those ten films should be alphabetical order. There might even be a way to change the columns so that we won't have to write "1996" for all ten films, though I have no idea how right now. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:58, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

==Updated Template==
Thanks to everyone for the response. I have changed the first entry in the [[M1911#M1911|1911]] page to a blend of both mine, MPM and MT2008 which looks very nice right now. As to the other suggestions on lines for each entry I have posted samples at [[Talk:Test Template Page#Anime|Talk:Test Template Page]]. The third sample looks the best as in not quite as busy as the others. The colors can be changed to a lighter gray or blue if that need to be changed to make it a little more eye appealing. It looks like we are getting close to a standard on this pretty quick. As for added actors using the same weapon I have always included them on the listing instead of trying to place multiple actors on one entry that way it has less clutter. Thanks on your input on this. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

==Zombieland Mare's Leg pistol==
I understand my comment on the Mare's Leg gun disrupted the flow of the page, so I figured I'd tell you a little bit about it. I'd assume it is a C.B. Custom model. They've been selling the "Mare's Leg" in typical pistol calibers (.38spl, .45LC, .357Mag) and consider it a pistol so civilians can buy it without paying a tax for a cut down rifle. Since the gun looks so new and shiny, this could be assumed. Also, they sell the gun with a non-loop lever. LSI (Legacy Sports International) has also been reproducing Mare's Leg guns since 2008, so perhaps this film bought one brand new from the company to show it off (but since the movie was filmed at this time it would be BRAND new). - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== The Hills Have Eyes ==

Sorry about that, I couldn't figure out why it was doing that, so I just deleted the redirect page, if you can make a better redirect, go ahead. I'm not too good at doing redirects myself.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 17:06, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

No problem, I was going to try getting rid of the Category: Movie tab at first, but everytime I hit the Edit tab, it would bring me to the page it redirected to, so I just decided to get rid of it, thanks for creating a better redirect by the way. --[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

== Alien resurrection ==

I added a note to [[Alien: Resurrection]] about a page I found on the props, you might want to take a look and see if it's legit since it implies most or all the sci-fi firearms are just props made from machined aluminium. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 01:46, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

== Hey MPM ==
Anyone ever tell you that you have a lot of pictures? haha. - [[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
:BTW the HKP7M13 picture, the factory nick and the blued, are they the same gun? I'm just wondering, same serial no., and if they are, how'd you accomplish that?-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::Ahahah I completely agree, I posted a picture of my Gold Cup on the forum, but I put duck tape over the SN. So are they the same gun? I saw that they had nicks in the same place as well. And thanks, I just pay attention

==Desert Eagle==

Agreed, moved back. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:12, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

==Navy SEALs==
Hey MPM, would it be okay if I uploaded a few screencaps for [[Navy SEALs]]? When I say a few, I mean a FEW. I just wanted to add some guns you missed.

* Terrorists fire a DShK (or M2 mock up) at a helicopter during the film's start

* FN FAL seen in soldier's hands in news footage.

* Sheen uses a Browning Hi-Power to shoot a terrorist when he finds the conversation "boring".

* Stinger missile launcher, which is kind of pivotal to the whole story.

* One of the SEALs is seen holding a 92FS in one scene (during the night raid), it had a squared trigger guard.

I promise I won't fill up the page with huge amounts of screencaps, in fact I think each gun should only hail one or two caps each, total. I don't think I'll need to add any extra caps to the existing guns either, unless I come across something really, REALLY good. :) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::After screencapping it, I noticed all types of AK variants are seen, not just AK-47s and AKMS's. The Hi-Power was a CZ-75. The new footage had an FN FAL, and M16A1 with jungle taped magazines, and a DShK. The gun at the beggining is the same type of mocked up M2HB from Rambo III, except it is a dual mount. And a terrorist APC is seen fitted with dual M1919 .30 calibers. There are some other guns too but that was just some of the stuff I caught. I took a few more extra screencaps for the existing guns than I thought I would, so I'll put those in the discussion and let you okay them. Sound good? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:::Shit. Damn my impatience! Well I only added some extras to the existing guns on the page and filled out the AKs in better detail. I'll leave everything else to you, and hey, if you miss anything once your done I still have all my screencaps saved and ready to use. Sorry to tread on your toes. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::BTW, I fixed up the page format a bit (it wasn't quite IMFDB standard). I was wondering, what is this gun Ramos is holding?:
[[Image:NS-FNFNCPara-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ramos with (???). My best guess is an FN FNC Para or someting around that series of firearms.]]
::::I figured you'd know best. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Can you delete a duplicate picture? ==

After updating [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DefTech1315.jpg DefTech1315.jpg] I noticed the [[RoboCop 3]] page used a duplicate image of the original (found [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DefTec37mmGasGun.jpg here]). They were both the same image before and now the [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DefTech1315.jpg DefTech1315.jpg] is just a larger/cleaner version, and the one [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DefTec37mmGasGun.jpg here] isn't used. [[User:Sci Fi Gunner|Sci Fi Gunner]] 16:48, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
:::DONE :)

==RE:Sorry guys==
Good luck with the productions. I started to film my own movie last tuesday and a little today, so I guess summer's movie making time. Hope you get back soon. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:Great to hear from you again! I was wondering what happened (I only '''just''' noticed the update on your user page, haha). Hope all goes well and you (and the guns) all come out of it OK. I'm sure you'll have stories to tell, too! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

== Armorer page idea ==

Hey, I haven't checked the forums in awhile so I don't know if anyone's had this idea before, but I was wondering if we should set up a way of making pages for movie armorers or at least one page with the armorers and links to the movies they've done. I'm not sure how it would be set up, but I just wanted to consult with anyone else to see if this would be a good idea. I figured these guys do a ton of work and it'd be great to see who all's worked on what, etc. Again, if anyone's had this idea before just ignore this but I was just thinking it might be neat to honor these guys. Let me know what you think! Also I hope you're having a good time with the productions you're working on now! - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 05:15, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

== Your Photos ==

You know, I was just looking at those photos you took on your user page, and I must say that these are very well done. Bravo! -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

== Indies ==

So do you ever find that the Indies are lees knowledgable about firearms from the A list movies or is there no difference. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:40, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
::There are ignorant idiots everywhere. Doesn't matter what the budget is. MPM2008

== Smith & Wesson Model 5943 ==
I read your comment regarding the 5943. I don't know if I came off as rude, condescending, or arrogant, but I assure you I did not intend offense nor did I mean to slight you in any way. I am merely a gun enthusiast whose knowledge is evergrowing, much like the rest of the people on this site.

The Smith & Wesson number system dictates that a "5943" is a full size, double action only, alloy framed gun, and there are numerous examples of this. However, the gun pictured to represent the 5943 has the 3.5 inch barrel of many of the 69 Series guns. You know without a doubt that it's a 5943, which, since I can't confirm with you due to your real life projects, I can only assume you can confirm by the marking number stamped on the frame. After looking some more online, I've found two possible answers to this phenomena. One, someone could have merged a 6946 slide assembly with a 5943 frame, but I don't know if you got the gun secondhand or not, so this isn't likely. The other answer is the 5943 SSV (short slide variant) which is exactly like the one you have pictured. I'll attach a link to an example. It has a blued slide, but I did find an example with a stainless slide, but the picture was removed before I could save it.

Again, sorry if I offended you, I'm just trying to figure something out and learn.

[http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9959/5943vssnx0.jpg]

==Bisley Colt==
Nice pic of the Bisley Colt! I didn't know Cimmeron made a copy of that version, but I guess I haven't looked at their site in a while. Any way, excellent work. How's the work in the indie movies going? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Help with Militaria ==
I see you are a collector of Military equipment. I want to be a collector too. Could you tell me where to find a good website that sells militaria? I am looking for a soviet SSh68 helmet. The one the Soviet Army used during the war in afghanistan. I'm also looking for a Vietnam War era american M1 Helmet with the Nam Leaf pattern. Could you tell me where i can find those?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
::Nope. I got all my stuff years ago in person and NOT on the internet. I bought all my M1 helmets with the nam leaf pattern cover at the Great Western gun show in 1993. MPM

==Template Layout==
Hi Everyone, Now that I am back let's talk about the page layout template. On the forum we had one item brought up about the chronological order being reversed. Also another item was brought up about putting lies or boxing in the information. As admin it is up to us to police the site and make a decision that is agreed upon by the majority of admins and then implemented. Let's all go back to the [[Talk:Test Template Page]] and nail these last issues down. As we talk about it pages have been created and might need to be corrected so there is a standard look to all the gun and actor pages. Thanks for you input and help on the. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]]

==Re: Primeval==

''I just saw a chopped and converted HK94 (masquerading as an MP5) on the BBC show "Primevel" tonight. WTF? Why on earth would the British Armorers have such a thing?''

Hmmmm, that is odd. I imagine that there were at least some HK94s imported to the U.K. before the 1987 Hungerford Massacre (and the subsequent ban on semi-auto rifles and shotguns), so it's possible that a few were acquired by the British armories and only partially converted to MP5 specs. But it's definitely the kind of thing I wouldn't expect to see anywhere except in American movies and TV shows. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

==Re:Remington M1903A3 in Public Enemies==
I think this is a factual error mistake or someone confused the rifles to be M1903's.Maybe it's an earlier version of the M1903. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==The S&W in Constantine==

[[Image:C-RachelGunLoadCarA.jpg‎‎ |thumb|none|600px|Angela Dodson ([[Rachel Weisz]]) loads up her 6906.]]

This pistol has a single-stack frame, so it can't be a 6906. It's most likely a 3913 (the regular 3913, not the Ladysmith). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

:''WTF? you in the habit of reading Gunmaster45's talk page?''

:Yep, I'm just creepy like that. No, seriously, I was about to leave a message on his page when I decided to PM him on the forum instead.

:As for the S&W, I'm not 100% sure it's a 3913. But remember that because Rachel Weisz is a woman, she's probably got small hands, so guns which look compact in the hands of a guy are probably going to look much bigger in her hands. Her IMDB profile says she's 5'7".

:Thanks for the new pictures. It's nice to have our own P18.9, and the old-school MGC XM177 look-a-like. I've actually handled one of the newer MGC XM177s (which has a more realistic-looking forward assist button). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

::Whoa, you have been quite busy this weekend! Nice, very nice! But still curious...any chance of an MGC M16 configured like the ones from ''[[Barb Wire]]'' and ''[[Outbreak]]''? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:30, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

:::I don't think the ''[[Barb Wire]]'' guns are a factory MGC config; I think they were built using real M16 parts. As you noted yourself on the page, they have real M16 mags that clearly don't fit in the wells.

:::Anyway, as far as the Photoshopped guns go, I noticed that somebody keeps re-adding many of the M16s (like that inaccurate XM177E1) to the M16 page even though I have removed them myself on various occasions. Not sure who keeps doing it, but I would not discourage you from removing them. I'm getting to the point where I'm a bit fed up with Anonymous users myself (I've undone their incorrect edits a whole bunch of times now). But I hope it doesn't make you completely hate us. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:51, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
::::I was just coming on here to suggest 3913 as well (not the Lady Smith though). I believe this is the gun in [[Painkiller Jane (2007)]] as well. Let me know when you plan to finish [[Navy SEALs]], I'm looking forward to seeing it. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::BTW, excellent gun pics. As always. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==UWE AKs==

''I think they're Bulgarian Arsenal ARs in 5.56mm not Norinco guns.''

Hmmm, you might be right (the dark wood is certainly not consistent with Chinese AKs), but I'm pretty sure they have the full-circle front sight hoods, which would mean they're Norincos. I'll have to check again to be sure. Also, the armorers who worked on ''[[Underworld: Evolution]]'' are the same guys who do ''[[Stargate: SG1]]'', and that show very often uses the Type 84 to equip the Russian SG teams (as an AK-74 substitute). So it would make lots of sense if the same guns were used here. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

:You might be right (and we both know I've screwed this up before), but just take a look at this one other shot:

:[[Image:UWEAK-2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

:My eyes could still be playing tricks on me, but those do looked like the circular front sight. Also, I noticed that in ''Stargate: Continum'', Cameron Mitchell used a Type 84 with the same color wood:

:[[Image:SGAK7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

:Again, the same armorers worked on both shows. It would make plenty of sense if the same AKs were sent out on both. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

== Images ==

Hey MPM2008, I just want to say excellent work on the images you have uploaded this past weekend, I like the Pre war M1911A1 alot. Keep up the good work, I hope work has gotten atleast a little easier for you.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 01:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

== Can you believe this guy? ==

Yournamehere thinks he can come to my page and change the format I prefer because he doesn't like it. How is my format not orderly. It's pissing me off. I mean look at my [[Black Lagoon]] Page. How is it better now than before when I had sections for which guns is which. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

== You should ban this guy. ==

67.183.66.44 is making nonsense edits to loads of gun articles, adding links to films he seems to just be making up as he goes along, adding images that are misformatted...He needs a good solid kick up the rear, I think, since he's just making things worse now. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:05, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

==RE: Jericho==

Nah, I'm not sure who those guys are (or if they're all the same person). I haven't touched my ''[[Jericho]]'' page in months now, even though it could use some more work.

Also, sorry I didn't get back to you about user 67.183.66.44, even though I see you banned him. I have been pretty busy and I keep forgetting to do things for this site that I've been meaning to do. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:08, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

==Léon==
Don't commend me, give the honors to AdAstra2009. He's the one who did the completed page first and IDed the obscure weapons such as the assault rifles. I'm just adding better screencaps and fixing formating issues (no captions, lack of descriptions, etc.), although there are a few guns I will still upload that I don't think he found. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==RE: Gun ID==
It looks like a Star Model PD. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:I second that; I think John is correct. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

=== Pulse Rifle inspiring the Morita ===
Yes it did, the same guy made both of them. The dude took what he learned from the pulse rifle, and applied it to the morita.-protoAuthor

==Nice new pics! + "Stealth" ==

Thanks for the new MP7 pictures! Are those yours? The Rossi Overland is also great, because now we can ditch the picture that was jacked from LMO (I think you can probably just upload over the old one, and nobody will mind).

Also, I still think that the MP7 that you documented in ''[[Stealth]]'' is actually a prototype PDW and not a production model, for the reasons I mentioned on the page (and which I guess we should move to discussion). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:Actually, ignore what I said, I forgot that the existing Rossi Overland was the same one from ''[[The Untouchable]]'', and keeping it for that page only is a good idea. But I think we should use yours for all other pages that have the Rossi. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Nah, I ain't psychic, just happened to be online at the same time. It happens. LOL. As I said later, changed my mind...the LMO one can stay on the ''[[The Untouchables]]'' page only, but every other page that uses it should have the image replaced by yours. Also, I think there's already a sawed-off 870 besides that one from the Waco Police Dept. on here somewhere...we should just ditch it and use the other one.

::Nice MP7. H&K may think we suck and they hate us, but having our own MP7 pictures is really great, especially since it appears in so many movies as of late. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Assault on Precinct 13 ==
Oh yeah that movie is seventies all the way. My dad was a cop back in the seventies (1970 - 1994) and what that movie portrays was a very real concern of cops. The idea of a police precinct being besieged in an inner-city neighborhood seemed very real. Plus all the firearms are old school. Revolvers, pump action shotguns,even that unrealistic "silencer"on the C96. None of the bells and whistles that the remake had.Plus the bad guys was a street gang not some type of massive armyof "bad" cops.I like the fact that the original isn't so PC. All in all it's a better movie imho. Just has an edge that the remake lacks. Alot of the 1970 cop films had a bite to them. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:24, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

== ''Flight of the Intruder'' Edits ==

Sorry about stepping on your toes in regard to ''[[Flight of the Intruder]]'', I didn't mean to mess you up while you were working on the page. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:16, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

== Don't use PNG files for screenshots ==

Okay. Now I have to convert all the screenshots after I take them, no a big problem. How do I remove the pics I already posted?
BTW, I didn't realize just how much work it takes to make a page till now, you guys are really amazing. --[[User:Zurak 47|Zurak 47]] 23:22, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

==From your TimeCop page==

MPM,

[[Image:Timecop-ShotgunEmptyA.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Lyle Atwood ([[Jason Schombing]]) looks down and finds his custom SBR empty. This weapon would later be used on Stargate: Atlantis. The Actor ([[Jason Schombing]]) would also have a recurring role as Dr. Robert Rothman on the show ''[[Stargate:SG1]]'']]

As you noted, this is the same gun used on ''[[Stargate: Atlantis]]''. The show's armorer, Rob Fournier, specifically said in an interview that it's a [[Desert Eagle]] .44 Magnum, and he also mentioned that the gun was originally built for ''[[Timecop]]'' even though it's been re-used on the ''Stargate'' shows several times now. You can check that interview out here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIR_UCp6fPo

Just thought you might be interested. Have a good weekend. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:45, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

== Maruzen Pump action TEC 9 in Planet Terror ==

Thanks for spotting that. The M3 Grease gun was already written on the page before I worked on it and I followed it right in. I didn't pay close enough attention to caps I took of it either to see there is a big damn difference. I was in too much of a hurry trying to get them all loaded. Thanks again. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 05:27, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

== ==
When I get older I would like to be a film armorer but have no idea how, could you help me? [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 19:35, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

==Category:Behind the Scenes Image==

Good idea! We do have a lot of photos that need this classification (mostly on John's pages). Do we apply it to images of stuff like armorers showing off the guns, actors training with weapons, etc., as well as Trivia-related stuff? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:20, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

== Re: B&W Actor Pages ==

Thanks for the heads-up on that; I modified some of the pages I had made recently which mostly include B&W actors and a few actors from ''Hill Street Blues'' who have passed on. Would you be able to check one of the pages, such as [[George Raft]]'s, just to make sure I did it correctly? [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 06:57, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Also, unrelated, but would you be able to very briefly check this cap and identify the revolver. I had originally thought it was a heavy-barreled S&W Model 10 but Gunman69 identified it as a Model 15. He may be correct but I'd just like a confirmation. Thanks!
[[Image:Hsb101-sw10hb1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Re: Flamethrower==

Looks a lot better! Feel free to replace the old one. Also, I've meaning to re-upload most of the images my contact at ISS sent me - '''not''' the ''[[Public Enemies]]'' guns, since those are the ones that got me into trouble, but I will put back the guns from ''[[Chuck]]'', ''[[Letters from Iwo Jima]]'', ''[[The Unit]]'', etc. When I do, would you like to do clean-up work on those?

Also, what do you think of the gun pictures on Weapons Specialists, Ltd.'s web site? I just uploaded their Seecamp LWS-32 (so that I could use it for my ''[[Strapped]]'' page):

[[Image:SeecampLWS-32.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

I think they're not quite as good as yours, but still pretty sweet. They have a lot of cool stuff on their site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:12, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Hi Standard group pic ==

Oops, sorry! Thanks for letting me know, I just put the previous picture back up! [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 20:41, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

==The Cell==

I doubt those SIGs are P220s. When in doubt, you should probably assume P226, because the 226 is by ''far'' the most common SIG pistol used in movies.

Also, the gun you IDed as a Glock 17 in ''[[Jeepers Creepers]]'' also appears to be a SIG P226. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:33, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

== Mera Gaon Mera Desh moved to ....... ==

You have moved Mera Gaon Mera Desh to My Village, My Country aka "Mera Gaon Mera Desh" as per IMFDB's standard that if a foreign has an English international title, that title takes precedence. But as far as I know, this film does not have any english title. Even in the IMDB it is listed as simply: Mera Gaon Mera Desh. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0232081/ My village, my country is a direct translation of the hindi phrase, mera gaon mera desh, however the movie is known by its original hindi name. Therefore It would be kind enough if you inform me the reason behind this redirection that has taken place. Thankyou. [[User:Ritwikbmca|ritwikbmca]] 08:42, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Also I would like to know that how this '''foreign films''' are defined in IMFDB. As this is an international detabase, US made films are also foreign to us. Had this been Hollywood movie firearms data base, then films made outside US could have been called '''foreign'''. But this is certainly not the case. Therefore, I think it is not fair to precede an english translation before a non-english title. I would be happy to here from you regarding this matter. Thankyou. [[User:Ritwikbmca|ritwikbmca]] 08:42, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

: Ok, now I can get the point that why you have changed the title. But I have checked on the IMDB that [[Khosla ka Ghosla]] has a UK subtitle, Khosla's Nest, and [[Rang De Basanti]] has an english international title, Paint It Yellow. Are these has to be changed as well? Yes, I can remember that I was told this before, but the reason I have raised this question again is that the word '''foreign''' and '''international''' appears contradictory to me. Why cant we take it as a fully global site instead of an American site? The server may be somewhere in the America but why are you restricting the site as an American only.[[User:Ritwikbmca|ritwikbmca]] 02:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

== Nid de guepes ==

It might be me bringing my wikipedia notions over, but oh well.

*Didn't know we could just upload covers grabbed from other sites.
*It's not like I have 'ownership' of the page, anyone can add whatever relevant, that's the whole point of a wiki.. Right? :/ --[[User:Joffeloff|Joffeloff]] 18:42, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

==Request==
I have a request for you. Could you take the 2nd Generation Glock 22 picture and spruce it up (cut the bars, fix the lighting, etc) like you did with the 2nd Generation Glock 19? Here's a picture of it:

[[Image:Glock 22.jpg|thumb|none|350px|]]

Thanks! - [[User:Swordfish941|Swordfish941]]

==Re: Seven Days==

Thanks! I miss this show and wish it would come to DVD, too. I do have quite a few more pics of other guns used in ''[[Seven Days]]'', including a S&W 640 Centenniel which Parker used briefly in an episode, Norinco Type 84 AKs, an NSV heavy machine gun, a custom shorty AK variant, the shotgun used to kill Olga in 1x04 "Come Again", the Dragunovs, etc. I will also document the Non-Guns used in the Pilot, which, as you pointed out, were due to the restrictions of filming in the District. There are also a LOT of appearances of airsoft guns in this show (many of them pretty obvious, even on the low-resolution AVIs I have) for the non-firing scenes.

Also, Nick Searcy, who played Ramsey on the show, is from this state (North Carolina). I can't remember if he still has family here or what, but I know he's been back at least a few times in the past 5 years. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

== Question! ==
I've noticed your name a lot on the site and I decided it was best to ask you. I've noticed several weapons on Law and Order Criminal Intent but I have no photos and only have the weapon in my mind. Also, is it fine to copy paste things for games? Like Resistance 2, which have descriptions about weapons in it. -GunEnthusiast

==Re: The M60==
Nice! Finally, you have blessed us with our own M60 picture! I personally like the bipod down a little more, but the bipod up is fine, too. It might even be more appropriate, because they're commonly wielded that way in movies. Whatever you choose, please make sure to upload over the existing one...it would be a nightmare to replace the M60 image by hand on over 100 pages! Hehe.

Also, I did a little more work on ''[[Seven Days]]''. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:47, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

==Apology==
Look, I'm sorry that I pissed you off about uploading that Remington 870 with a Pachmayr grip pic. Fist of all, I got it off this JC Devine site where they auction guns and I thought I can just save a few pics and upload them to help the site. Second of all, it matches the one used on ''[[The Kill Point]]''. You can delete if you want to and upload your version. - [[User:Swordfish941|Swordfish941]]

==The AK Krinkov==

Nice picture! It's really great we have our own picture of one of those [[AK-47#AKMSU|AKMSU]]/Krinkov-type guns, because that style weapon has appeared in a HUGE number of Hollywood movies and TV shows (if you check the "Links" section under the image, I just added your picture to almost 25 more pages which feature the same gun). Plus, up until now, that Zastava M92 which we've been using is just not a very good representation of the kind of AKMSU seen in the movies. Thanks for the image. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:48, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

:''I haven't checked on the various armories to see what exact version was used in what film, but I guess I will get around to it.''

:Steve mentioned to me that CW had quite a few of the Krinkov side-folders that look like yours. ISS has some, too, but I believe CW owns the majority of the ones that have been seen in Hollywood movies. Probably 95% of the AK Krinkovs that have been in American action movies are of the same type as the one you photographed - AKMs with the parts kit added and the side-folding [[AKS-74U]]-style buttstock. The movies that your picture now links to represent only a partial listing, I reckon.

:As for the unknown pistols in ''[[The Hunted]]'', here is what I can tell:

:*(1.) The suppressed pistol in the SF guy's holster looks to be a SIG P226 with a 20-round magazine. You can see the grip panels pretty clearly, and they're definitely SIG-style.
:*(2.) The pistol used by the Serb soldier looks to me like a CZ 75, though I'm again not 100% sure. But the CZ 75 is the most common Wonder Nine used by Eastern European military personnel in Hollywood, even in movies depicting military forces that never actually used the CZ 75 in real life.

:Hope that helps a bit. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:20, 12 September 2009 (UTC

== New Template ==

I have created two new templates, [[Template:Infobox Movie]], and [[Template:Sortable Table]]. Tell me if you like it. [[User:Ritwikbmca|ritwikbmca]] 06:45, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

::Hi, actually I dont have all those DVDs with me right now. I am trying my best to get those DVDs, so that I can finish all my articles as soon as possible. By the way, when I was creating the movie template one thing came into my mind, that, may be points like release dates, directer, producers are of less relevant for IMFDB. These data are easily available on IMDB and Wikipedia. So I have changed the format a bit. Could you please have a look at [[Template:Infobox Movie]] once again and tell me if this will be of any help. In that page I have changed only the box which has KAMINEY in it, the other two remains the same. Also could you please suggest me some more IMFDB related points that I can incorporate in the infobox movie, television and videogames. Thanks (this is a Festival season in India, so greetings from me as well)[[User:Ritwikbmca|ritwikbmca]] 15:38, 23 September 2009 (UTC

==Warehouse 13==

I'm watching the Pilot episode now. The SIG pistols used by the USSS agents are a mix of P228s and P229s, not P226s. Lattimer's SIG is a 229 when he first loads it up (you can see the cocking serrations pretty clearly), but later at the museum, due to a continuity error, it becomes a 228. It becomes a 229 again in his apartment when he meets Mrs. Frederick, and then it's a 228 when he first arrives at Warehouse 13 and draws on Artie. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:23, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

:Nice! Those are really great. Of course, I see you already made the P225 picture the new standard version, but no reason anyone should complain; it looks ''way'' better. And the 8mm Bruni is much-appreciated; I think those have appeared in some other movies, too, besides ''[[Ultimate Force]]''. Also, the nickel Taurus PT92 w/ pearl grips used in ''[[Shooter]]'' was also used by Lex Luthor a few times in ''[[Smallville]]'' (literally, the exact same gun; both had the same armorers). You should add it to the ''Smallville'' page as well.

:I will watch some more episodes of ''[[Warehouse 13]]'' when I get the chance, but the Pilot definitely has P228s and 229s only. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:41, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

==Hi==

Sorry I've been a bit busy lately; I've been helping with some research in my department. Thanks for those new pics of M16s and Berettas. I've seen AR15 SP1s with A2 hand guards in quite a few movies, so it's great we have a picture of that. Also, you should add the picture of the Taurus PT92 with the pearl grips to ''[[Smallville]]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:40, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

==Beretta 92FS Inox==
Can you get a picture of a Beretta 92FS Inox with wooden grips? Several movies like [[Push]] have these kinds of Berettas.(Crysis) -[[Special:Contributions/98.234.121.159|98.234.121.159]] 14:57, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

== Love the new picture ==
Seriously, I vocally cheer a little bit every time I see you've uploaded a new gun picture. Thanks for all your hard work, man.-protoAuthor 21:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

== sarcastic captions ==
I agree that some of the sarcastic remarks have gotten carried away in some instances. On ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]'' page I remarked that Ossie Davis didn't use a good grip when holding the S&W Model 29. But I just mentioned it and let it go. Some of our members have trouble letting it go. But I like to write humerous captions as well. Read my captions on Ghost and the Darkness, Crossfire Trail and The Yakuza. I don't have any trouble with humor. But there is a difference. So ,to wrap things up, I think you're onto something. I never really considered that folks in the industry would be checking us out. I don't know why I didn't think about that. I would like to think that they would use us as a teaching tool, but if they are turned off by smart ass remarks then we're "shooting" ourselves in our foot and the same mistakes will continue to be made. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:18, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

==Captions==
I try to use the best shot without the actors looking bad. (I usually end up with multiple caps for each scene.) I guess the best thing to do is point out good handling, and that is all. I think the worst as far as comments go is [[Payback]]. While Mel has handled weapons before he may not care for them all that much and doesn't ever practice. Just because the Porter character has a USMC tattoo doesn't mean, Mel is going to go get USMC training. (He has better shit to do.) Most of those comments are written by GM45 correct? Who is a MOD, so some users may be following by example. -[[User:Predator20|Predator20]]
== Remington 870/Captions ==

Awesome work, it looks perfect. I put it on a few pages that I know use 870s with black furniture, so you can go in and start editing when you're ready. There could be more pages that use them, but I'm not sure. As for the caption thing, I agree, it's one thing pointing out stances and actors having their fingers on the trigger for trivial purposes, but calling them names and making fun of them shouldn't be allowed, because like you said, they never get the chance to practice proper shooting techniques, plus these are movies, and no one should take these things too seriously if they see them.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 19:15, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

== RE: Thanks for your actions ==

No problem, your photos are part of what makes Imfdb great. If you're wondering about all the unploading, switching servers apparantly caused a bug that made us unable to revert images and pages like we usually would, so we had to click on your revision of the images, save the file, and then re-upload them over the images Hiel0c0 screwed with. But anyway, everything seems to be back to normal now or atleast close thanks to bunni, and his network administrators. I'm doing good fine by the way, thanks.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:21, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

== RE: Planet Terror ==
Thanks. There is still some work to be done on the page. I always try to check recent changes, to see what new goodies you're adding to site. I saw that Python and immediately thought of Planet Terror. There is probably a few others using the blued versions that need to be changed to the stainless. -[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:42, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

== A real life spook ==

Check it out I think we have a real life spook on the site! :o [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=User:LuckyLuciano]] [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 05:07, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

==New guns==

Beautiful! Did you make another trip to CW (I take it this explains the T3 SL6 and the "Fair Game" Beretta Inox?)

It's wonderful that we have a Beretta 92FS Inox now - that's been one of our site's biggest omissions for a while now. Also, do you know if that particular Beretta was used in any movies/shows besides "Fair Game"? I only ask because if it's Mike's gun, there might be a possibility it could have been used in ''[[The Last Boy Scout]]'' and ''[[Hostage]]''.

Thanks again for the new pictures. Again, they're beautiful. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 12:41, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

:Oh, wow! No, I missed those classic screen beauties. Must have been an update you did while I was away (I come and go nowadays). Nice! Also, you mean to say you have a lot more where these came from?

:Don't worry, I haven't died just yet. But I do sometimes expect my research and papers and everything is going to kill me, I must admit. It does seem a lot quieter without John around - he used to be the one who tackled all the big new films when they got released to DVD. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:12, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

== My Man ==

Thanks so much for the Beretta 92FS Inox, it looks great! Not only have you gave us a new Beretta Inox, but also a two tone Beretta, and the screen used Sage Control SL-6 from Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, you are great! By the way, how did you get the grenade launcher? Did you make another visit to Cinema Armory?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 18:29, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

== Thanks for the response and info ==
Thank you for the apologue and responding back to me. When I first started contributing to pages I had though that I couldn’t use other member's photos. That's why I probably uploaded so many photos to pages that already had them. I've never received a message asking me to stop uploading images that were already represented, but that person could have posted it on the firearm page I posted on. If I have gotten a message to my discussion page (only messages I’ve gotten have only come from AdAstra2009, and didn’t concern photos) I would have stopped sooner. But I will check around to see what photos I’ve posted than present nothing and deleted them. As of now the only time I upload an image is when I can’t find one on this site, or trying to find something similar that isn’t posted. I wish I would have read MT2008 message but I honestly don’t know where he posted it. Not trying to blame him for anything, but know that I do know I will delete those photos. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 07:51, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Foxy Brown/The Getaway ==

First off, EXCELLENT work getting the shotgun used in ''The Getaway''! Having stuff like that is just part of what makes this site great! I'll try and watch for the shots you mean before the weekend, most likely tomorrow afternoon/evening or Friday afternoon. The shotgun was most prominently used in two or three big scenes but I'll watch the last half to try and catch it; that would be very impressive to match the numbers.
Also, thanks for the compliments on the ''Entourage'' page; a good number of those came from a "Behind the Scenes" feature in the fourth season DVD that showed good close ups of the weapons used to film the movie-within-a-show.
Finally, I'm glad you were able to help identify FB's pistol. Something bothered me about labeling it as a Baby Browning but since it had a similar look I figured it was a safe enough bet. Thanks for getting the correct identification though! Do you know if those were used in any other films or shows?
Good to hear from you and great work lately with the photos! [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 09:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
:Sorry if you've been waiting on that ''Getaway'' shotgun cap. I've watched those scenes a few times over and maybe it's me (so used to seeing the movie itself) but I'm not able to find the exact part you mean with a closeup of the side. Do you happen to know which part that's from? Also, GREAT job getting those exclusives from ''The Book of Eli'', ''Dirty Harry'', ''The Usual Suspects'', ''Pulp Fiction'', and the others. Your contributions are invaluable and really help imfdb to be a one-of-a-kind site! - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 05:17, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

==Re: Screen used gun uploads==
Yeah, I have noticed a lot of those lately. Most recently, I saw those guns from ''[[Dirty Harry]]'', which made me happy. But the ''[[Miami Vice]]'' S&W 645 beats that out, at least for me :). Thank you so much! If you could get those other Miami Vice guns like you said, that would be awesome. :) -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 04:49, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

==Re: Live Free or Die Hard==
I didn't call it the actual gun used because I wasn't sure that it was. I guess it makes sense because it's the EXACT same configuration :). And no, I don't think it would be too confusing if you said it was from ''[[Iron Man (2008)]]'' and ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''. It's just like that Beretta 92F that was used in ''[[Die Hard]]'' and ''[[Lethal Weapon]]''. So yeah, you should say that it's from both movies :). -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 15:09, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

==Re: MAG-7==

As best I know, ''[[Romeo + Juliet]]'' is the only major Hollywood movie that's ever featured the MAG-7. I'm sure it's appeared in movies filmed in South Africa, but I haven't seen any of those films.

You've really got a lot of cool stuff from the boys at Cinema Weaponry. Please, do tell me, how was your trip down there? This is a really awesome update you've put together for us. Also, have you seen Steve recently? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:43, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks for the Street Sweeper and the Gen 2 Glock 19. But do you mind deleting the Glock and re-uploading over the old picture of the Glock 19 2nd Gen that we've been using on dozens of pages? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

::Actually I wouldn't reupload it over the current image, I think it would be better to have the image named Glock 192ndGen rather then Vviewpoint or whatever, I can go on Pages and replace the images.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 20:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

== Forum Moderator ==

Just made you a moderator on the forum - have fun wrangling the noobs! [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 04:06, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

== Re:Thanks for your help ==

No problem, I don't like the idea of gun pictures having names like that, like you said it's just too wierd and confusing. As for the recent waves of screen used gun, excellent work! It's an honor to know that IMFDB is the only site on the web to have this pictures, and what's even more impressive is that alot of the guns you uploaded are 20-30 years old atleast and they're still in great shape, plus you got guns from movies that aren't even out yet, I wouldn't be suprised if other prop sites are jealous of IMFDB. Thanks so much for your updates, I can't wait to see what you upload next time.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:40, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Where should I put this? ==

Hmm, I'm not really too good with identifying AKs myself, but I'll try to help as much as I can. [[Congo]] could possibly use one, and it looks like [[Hard Boiled]] and [[Rambo: First Blood Part II]] use them, but I'm not sure, you would be probably have an easier time identifying them then I do, and yes I would suggest a new section for it, or atleast put under with the original AK-47s. As for the question about getting sick of your updates, definitely not, I could never get tired of seeing your pictures, they're too awesome. P.S, can you do me a favor? If you get the chance, can you get an Ithaca 37 with a high capacity magazine tube for [[The Terminator]] page? because the current image representing Reese's shotgun is terrible, and dosen't fit well at all, even if you get one that isn't screen used or has a full stock, it would be a better representation then that. Thanks again, let me know if you need anymore help.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 05:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

== rules page ==

That's the power of the wiki structure! We'll both have at it and see what comes out. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 04:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== M1911 history page ==

You've done a great job so far with the [[IMFDB Info - The History of M16s in Film and Television]]. It's a great way to add more information about one of our most popular pages. I was thinking: we should do a page like that for the 1911s. I'm always seeing confusion about 1) what 1911s were used in a movie and 2) how to identify different 1911 variants. I think this would definitely help clear up confusion about 1911s, as well as attract more people to our site who are interested in this weapon (the wikipedia article on 1911s is, in my opinion, substandard). Granted I'm only suggesting that this be done for Colt models, and not the different firearm company variants (S&W, Springfield Armory, Kimber, etc.) because not only would it be very long, but the real point is to inform about the history of the original Colt variants. Anyways, this is only a suggestion. I know how busy you are, so don't think I'm trying to pressure you, but I think it'd be a great idea :). -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 03:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

== insulting actors/films ==

I think we should include your notes on not insulting actors to the rules and standards page. Personally I feel this should be in the principles section under "Be nice." and let everyone behave like adults, but if we're going to enforce it maybe it should be a new rule. Thoughts? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 00:00, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
:Let's do both - it deserves to be a clear cut rule as well as being expounded upon in the other sections.[[User:Bunni|bunni]] 02:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

== Your photo has been edited. ==

One of your 1911A1 photos has been edited to look like the Dillinger machine pistol used in Public Enemies. Also I think that image was edited over an image I had already posted under the Dillinger machine pistol in Public Enemies. The image I had up was an actual firearm, while this edit is just cut and pasted together. The "new" image that replaced mine still even has most of my original write up I did in the thumb. I know that you do not tolerate your photos being messed with, as I can now kind of relate since my image has been messed with so I figured Id let you know. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 00:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

== No problem. ==

That would be awesome if you could build the machine pistol. I understand what you mean by the younger members too. I was going to write him the message but when I saw his user page I thought that would not be the best/nicest thing to do. Anyway thanks for the response lol. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 01:13, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

== Bauer .25 Automatic ==

Excellent find! I'd say you're right; there's almost a 95% chance that's the FB Bauer and I've seen ''Wonderboys'' (but don't own it) and I remember Tobey Maguire using a small nickel pistol like that, with Michael Douglas's character mentioning he thought it was a "cap gun". From the shots I grabbed from FB though, I'd say we can be almost positively sure it's the same pistol. Thanks and great work! - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 10:53, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

== Gun image rule ==
I had a quick questoin regarding the rule that multiple images of the same gun should not be uploaded to this site. I agree that two images which are virtually identicle are unnecessary, however, would two images of the same weapon but with different finishes or barrel lengths be considered redundant as well? Granted they are identical from a technical standpoint, however having images with different finishes could help contributors post an image on an article which is a closer visual approximation to the weapon used in the film. So to reiterate, would uploading images of the same weapon with black, stainless, and two-tone finishes violate the principle posted on the rule page?
-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

== 4006 Reliability Question ==
Hey, MPM, I was just wondering how reliable the Smith and Wesson 4006 was with blanks. I'm currently writing a script, and I've armed the main character with one. I'm seriously planning to make this script a movie someday (in the far future, but hey...), so I'm asking for your input. -protoAuthor 18:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

== The History of the M16 page ==
When are you going to update the history of the M16 page? Because I would like to help.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:58, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

==Re post==
I posted this question above but I fear it may have been lost among the other so I will restate it here. I apologize in advance if it sounds like I am pestering you:
:I had a quick questoin regarding the rule that multiple images of the same gun should not be uploaded to this site. I agree that two images which are virtually identicle are unnecessary, however, would two images of the same weapon but with different finishes or barrel lengths be considered redundant as well? Granted they are identical from a technical standpoint, however having images with different finishes could help contributors post an image on an article which is a closer visual approximation to the weapon used in the film. So to reiterate, would uploading images of the same weapon with black, stainless, and two-tone finishes violate the principle posted on the rule page?

-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==Standards==
Pursuant to the Standards page...how many caps are considered too many? The reason I ask is that I have been capping for the "[[Sons of Anarchy]]" page and have a fair amount at the moment. I know you should not do too many caps per weapons so I was wondering what is acceptable? 2, 3, per weapon? Any advice or commentary would be appreciated. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 02:26, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks...it narrows it down a great deal. As it stands I have something like 60 caps for the series but, again, they are for the same weapons (AKs) and the like. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 11:26, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

:::I know what you mean. For SOA there are some "unique" weapons but then, as I look, there's a Glock, there's another, there's another...yadda yadda. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 02:04, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

== I'm looking for some props==
My name's Joe and I read your username and thought you might be able to help me with finding some prop revolvers or pistols. My brother is a film maker and we are looking for some 70's era revolvers ( S&W model 10 and 27) and a Colt 1911 for his film. My e-mail adress is humanzie3@aol.com, if you can help me out please shoot me an E-mail. November 2, 2009 (UTC)

==Re: The Hurt Locker==

I'll confess that the captures were from a screener. You can delete them- I was a bit too eager to get some decent shots after watching the movie at the theatre. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 00:21, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

== Forum login ==
Is the error that login attempts are being used up, but not by you?
:I have a problem similiar to your's sometimes. For some reason I can't log onto the site at night or at some random point during the day. I hope you succeed where I have failed and figure out what is wrong-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
::Someone is trying to brute force attack the login passwords and is using up all of your attempts. I hope you have strong passwords that aren't in the dictionary or forms of dictionary words. If not they should be changed to something strong and random ASAP. I will go through the server logs and try and track down the offending IP address. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 00:28, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:::I have a list of ip addresses trying to access your account - and it's a long list. Do you access from many different computers? Does your ip address change often? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 04:37, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Too many screencaps ==

Whoops! Sorry about that. I wasn't counting how many I uploaded, but I guess that was too much. How does it look now? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 03:39, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== Re: Reservoir Dogs ==

Thanks! I was wondering: do you think the screenshots look low quality? Because I used an ordinary DVD, but [[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] thinks they look low quality. I don't really they do, but I figured I should get a second opinion. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 00:09, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
:Also, that'd be great if you got the hero guns from the movie, especially the nickel 1st gen [[Colt Detective Special]]. I know there are a lot of pages that feature this gun but we only have pictures of the blued 1st gen. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 00:18, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

== H&K G3 page ==
Can you protect the page from anonymous users, I reverted the edit of the vandal who for the umpteenth time decided to remove the Specifications section.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 13:09, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

== Clue revolver ==

Hey, I have some grabs from the 1985 movie ''Clue'' but I have no idea what this revolver is. Since there's no cylinder release (this picture is of the right side but the left side looks exactly the same), I'm baffled.
[[Image:Clue-rev1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
Thanks in advance for taking a look. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 20:24, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
:Thanks MPM. Would you recommend me (or anyone) making a page for H&R revolvers? It seems like there've been a few in some movie pages lately and I don't know enough about them to discern whether to bulk the similar ones together or make a page for each model? - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 22:00, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
::I think you're right! Sorry I only sent the side shot before, I didn't want to clutter up your talk page with pictures especially if I hadn't made the article yet :-/ Also, I just checked and saw that the Model 922 is a nine-shot .22 revolver. If I had sent a shot from the front, we would have seen the six-shot cylinder so that's my fault as well! Thanks for helping out though! A user (not sure who) has been adding H&R revolver pictures which has been great to help identify some H&Rs in other films, so hopefully he'll see this change as well. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 02:13, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== I can't believe it ==
How the hell did you get an M1941 Johnson rifle? I though they were extremely hard to find.

Also, did you take that S&W Model 39 picture yourself?--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:41, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

== Comments ==

Sorry about that, I was just very frustrated with all the recent vandalism on that page especially when it's hinted that's it's the same person doing it over and over again. I'll cut down on it next time.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

== Smith & Wesson hammers ==
I posed this question to gun master a while back and he was unable to help me. I was hopeing you could provide some insight:
:I don't know whether or not you have the answer to this question but I thought I'd ask anyway. I was doing some reading recently and learned Colt's Positive Lock safety, separating the hammer from the firing pin to prevent accidental discharge, was developed fairly early in the twentieth century and applied to Colt revolvers, however, many Smith & Wesson revolvers continued to use the simple spiked hammer design for decades. I was currious if you knew when, if ever, S&W adopted a safer mechanism for their revolvers and if you had any details about the design.
:-Anonymous

[[Image:PaybackS&W27-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note the pin on the hammer of Porter's model 27.]]

After more thought I figured that Smtih & Wesson had to have some safety mechanism on their guns differentiating them from models like the Colt Single Actoin Army, but I haven't been able to find any details on them. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

== ''Italian Job'' Trivia Section ==

The reason I moved the trivia section of ''[[Italian Job, The (2003)|The Italian Job]]'' is because it was not directly firearm-related. I was following the precedence set by the trivia section of ''[[Transformers]]''; having the non-gun trivia about the titular robots moved to the discussion section. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 00:59, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

== High Standard shotgun ==
Why did you put an place holder picture of an High standard shotgun? I thought you already had took a picture of that shotgun for us. Here:

[[Image:HIghStandardM10Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|An abomination.]]
--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

== Re: You won't believe this. ==

MPM, you da man! :) These look awesome. I would've never expected to see Tony Montana's M16 here! Or the Skull's shotgun or the M16's from [[Predator]]! Great work. Thanks so much for these lovely images! :) -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 03:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
-Edit: oh, and yes, I think the black tape looks better. That makes it the EXACT configuration, making it all the more genuine :)
:Once again, I'm blown away! IMFDB is very indebted to you; Thanks for all your work MPM! - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 03:41, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
::MPM, you get the all the best stuff. Fucking cool.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
:Ah, sorry! I just got a bit over-excited about the exclusive pictures ;) You're absolutely right though, gotta give the prop houses their due! - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]]!
::Really great stuff MPM, Tony Montana's M16 in particular. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 06:21, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:::I echo everyone above. Beautiful! Which armory owns this gun now? Also, can I show this off on The Firing Line as publicity for us? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:05, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
:::Truly awesome MPM. I continue to be amazed by your contributions. You have elevated the imfdb to a new standard and are truly making it a definitive historical source. ps. love the tape, I was using gaffer tape to close off some bathrooms on set yesterday, good to know I can use it mount accessories to my firearms. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 01:28, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

==Year of the Dragon comment==
[[Image:YD-S&W10-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Herbert is not a very good shot. Not enough trigger time.]]
:Putting this image on the page is not professional and it has questionable value. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

::I wasn't putting down the actor, that's the character in the film that's a bad shot. In the film White (Rourke) is told by his superiors that Herbert needs more training.(hence not enough trigger time) But White says there isn't enough time and throws Herbert undercover. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 05:23, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the update. that is interesting information. Hmmm, the description should specifically mention the plot point being given to the audience regarding Herbert's unsuitability to go undercover and thus ends in his death. But then I still wonder how relevant it is considering we're trying to cut down the number of extraneous screencaps. Thanks for the explanation! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I would have replied to it sooner but I hadn't checked that page in a while. It was one of the first pages I did. You can delete the pic if you want, there is a few other pics I think that can be deleted also. I'll give you a list. Also thanks for putting out that memo about commenting on actors weapon skills. The site is a whole lot better.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 05:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
:Also how is it going on getting more Miami Vice guns?--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 05:55, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== Re: You won't believe this ==

Awesome work MPM2008! You have done a very amazing job bringing us the actual screen used M16A1 and shotgun from Scarface, Scarface fans will definitely be proud and excited. As for the black tape, I think you've done a great job making the gun the way it was in the movie, I mean what better way to see the image then the way it appeared in the movie. Keep up the great work, I can't wait to see what you upload next time. Your edits make Imfdb proud.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 06:01, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

==Additional stock gun pics==
I was thinking since not all of the gun pics you take can be put in their main page. (that goes for other people's stock gun pics too) Couldn't they be put in their talk page and a note be made to check it for additional gun pics? These two below are not in the 870 page but are used in several movies. It would help with clutter of pics in some gun pages and maybe keep users from uploading pics you've already taken but don't know about since they aren't in the gun page. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:29, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Remington870BlackSynthetic.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:Rem870w618Surefire.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

I could be wrong, but I could've swore that you uploaded an image like this below with the same furniture but without the extended magazine tube. I looked for it on your page but couldn't find it so I may be wrong. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:34, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:Remington870NewModel.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

==Colt Canada C7==

Hey, I have a question: Have you taken any pictures of Colt Canada C7s/Model 715s that are on your hard drive? The reason I ask is because I've recently done pages for several TV shows filmed in Vancouver (including ''[[The Sentinel (TV series)|The Sentinel]]'' and ''[[Millennium]]''), and those shows have many of these rifles. I've also noticed that many of them seem to have the "Stowaway" pistol grip that used to come standard on Olympic Arms AR-15s, so I think the "C7s" used by the Canadian armorers are actually late-80s/early-90s Olympic Arms rifles converted to select-fire. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:41, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

:Sounds good if you have a C7 upper. Better yet, if you slap it on an Olympic Arms full-auto lower with the Stowaway pistol grip (if you have any of those), you'll have something that looks just like the guns that the Canadian armorers use. I'm not sure why they like the OAs, either, but they sure do seem to use a lot of them.

:Thanks also for that shorty M16 picture; I had no idea that anyone besides Olympic Arms manufactured guns with that style barrel. If the K23 series didn't exist in 1996, then yeah, I guess the gun in ''[[The Sentinel (TV series)|The Sentinel]]'' can't be one of those. Only difference, the one in ''The Sentinel'' has a different hand guard than yours (it doesn't have those horizontal cuts). Otherwise, they're the same, so I'll use the picture. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== The Unit Page ==

Yes, I'm trying to clean up the page with a little more detailed descriptions and screencaps from the actual DVD's. Keep posting those screen used gun pics! --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

== The Protector revolver ID ==

Okay here are my best educated guesses.

[[Image:P-Model28SnubA.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
S&W Model 19 with the 2.5 inch barrel. It had the full lug protecting the ejector rod and the Baughman front ramp sight as well as adjustable rear sights and it appears to have the engraved lettering on the frame typical of S&W revolvers. None of the .38 special K frame snubbies (Model 15 and Model 10) made by S&W have a full lug protecting the ejector rod.

[[Image:P-S&WSnubAielloBoatA.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
S&W Model 27 with the 3.5" barrel. Danny Aiello is a big guy so the N frame Model 27 might appear to be smaller in his hand, but the frame is bigger than the medium sized K frame Model 19 and the barrel has more length. But it ends right after the front of the ejector rod lug unlike the 4" barrel Model 28. But the big giveaway is the amount of light you can see between the front of the cylinder and the frame. The Model 27 is a .357 magnum and has a shorter cylinder than the Model 57 (41 magnum) or the Model 29 (44 magnum). On both those models the cylinder fills the frame. Also the cylinder fills the frame on the Model 19. That one feature alone makes me certain it's a Model 27. Also compare it to the snubbie held by Aiello in the screencap below.

[[Image:P-SnubAielloA.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
Back to the S&W Model 19 with the 2.5 inch barrel for the above stated reasons.

Hope this helped. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 03:40, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

==Smith & wesson hammer repost==
'''''I asked this question a few weeks ago and I guess it got lost among all your other messages'''''

I posed this question to Gunmaster a while back and he was unable to help me. I was hopeing you could provide some insight:
:I don't know whether or not you have the answer to this question but I thought I'd ask anyway. I was doing some reading recently and learned Colt's Positive Lock safety, separating the hammer from the firing pin to prevent accidental discharge, was developed fairly early in the twentieth century and applied to Colt revolvers, however, many Smith & Wesson revolvers continued to use the simple spiked hammer design for decades. I was currious if you knew when, if ever, S&W adopted a safer mechanism for their revolvers and if you had any details about the design.
:-Anonymous

[[Image:PaybackS&W27-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note the pin on the hammer of Porter's model 27.]]

After more thought I figured that Smtih & Wesson had to have some safety mechanism on their guns differentiating them from models like the Colt Single Actoin Army, but I haven't been able to find any details on them. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

== Pirates of the Caribbean ==

I think it's pretty crazy that someone keeps putting up these pages, but doesn't work on them, so I thought I would work on the pages so you wouldn't have to keep deleting them. Unless you don't want me to. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:44, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. You can delete the Pirates posters I uploaded. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:42, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

:I actually have a picture of a Trapdoor Springfield converted to a pistol for this movie (from ISS's inventory) that I would love to upload, but can't without the page. Do you think it might justify the page's inclusion? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:14, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

==Rush Hour 3==

Nice job on ''[[Rush Hour 3]]''; it's great that you've finished up that page. I do have a few corrections, though...

[[Image:RH3-Glocka.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|A triad holds a Glock 17 against the head of Soo Yung ([[Zhang Jingchu]]) - 9mm]]

I think this is actually the Non Gun Glock. The trigger guard has that weird distorted look that the Non Gun Glocks have. But the barrel is definitely too short for a G17.

[[Image:RH3-GenevieveTwoGuns02a.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|A very bald Genvieve ([[Noemie Lenoir]]) with two handguns, one of which is a SIG-Sauer P220 - .45 acp]]
[[Image:RH3-GenevieveTwoGunsa.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

This is actually a P226, not a -220. If you look closely in the second screencap, you can see the double-stack bulges on the frame. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:49, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

==Harold & Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay==

Do you think those are inexpensive airsoft P226s being used by the Air Marshalls? I just looked at my own 226, and the markings on the slide don't look like that. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:27, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

== Not a problem ==

the anonymous poster has been very busy. He/she needs to educate themselves on the correct terminology. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 10:31, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

==Quotes==

So far, nobody seems to have noticed that I changed [[Template:Quote]]. I wonder what that means? ;) -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:14, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

==RE BTW you do great work==
Thank you, It's great to know that my work is appreciated :) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:55, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

==Anonymous users==
Can you block these two anonymous users-[[Special: Contributions/94.142.129.98|94.142.129.98]] (for adding gibberish to the Generation Kill talk page) and [[Special: Contributions/216.45.58.187|216.45.58.187]] (for vandalising the DEA page).--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 14:41, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

==Boondock Saints II Desert Eagle==

When I talked to [[Al Vrkljan]] about the guns used on ''The Boondock Saints II'', he told me that the Desert Eagles that his company built for the movie were chambered in .357 Magnum. Of course, you are correct that fluted barrel Mark XIX = .44 Magnum, but is it possible they may have re-chambered the Eagles just for this show?

Also, sorry I haven't been around a lot the past few days - I'm on vacation right now and haven't had as much time to patrol the site. But I did temporarily ban that one Anonymous user who kept making annoying mass edits (you know, like when he inserted "Category:Pistol" onto all the revolver pages, which I have since un-done) for a week to be on the safe side. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:58, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

:Both the .357 and .44 Mark XIXs have fluted barrels. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 00:28, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
==Delete list==
Unnecessary images from my pages.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:22, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Image:BTL-UNKRIFLE-3.jpg

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Image:BTL-UNKRIFLE-5.jpg

== Jacked Images ==

No problem, I got rid of those images when the owner wanted them gone. As for the Imfdb being pirates, I don't think so. If we don't have our own exclusive image of a gun, we have to due with something else, plus there are websites out there alot worse then we are.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

==Need help on Incredible Hulk==

I don't have access to the site's forum so I need your help here.

Can you go to this page and help me?

[[Talk:Incredible_Hulk%2C_The_(2008)#Need_M16_confirmation]]

--[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 16:14, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

==Single barrel shotgun==
I noticed you recently made a page for bolt action sporting rifles similar to the pages for double barrel and pump-action shotguns. I was wondering whether or not a similar page for single barrel shotguns would be a good idea. I know they are not as common in film as the other weapons these types of pages were made for, but I think they are weapons where many people (certainly myself) have trouble distinguishing specific models. If you could give me your thoughts and feedback it would be greatly appreciated. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==A request==
I know you said no more request, but figured I would ask anyway. There is a particular Smith & Wesson Model 629 with a Magna ported 2.5 barrel that's been used in a few films. Seems like it would be the same one. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 20:32, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:EP-S&W629-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|[[Extreme Prejudice]].]]
[[Image:H6292.jpg|thumb|none|500px|[[Hitcher, The (1986)]].]]
[[Image:BevCopS&W6295.jpg|thumb|none|500px|[[Beverly Hills Cop]].]]

==Time for image standardization?==

Thanks for informing me about the needs for game screenshots. I'm no fan of jpeg artifacts in images, so I just set the "quality meter" in Adobe Photoshop to maximum in the jpeg conversion screen (my screenshot program only saves in bmp format). After your reminder though, I tried setting the meter to 3/4ths and it seems to be alright.

Maybe it's time for the "upload file" page to contain the rules and standards for images themselves, then. Right now it doesn't say anything about "preferred resolutions" or "recommended filesizes." If that page contained more information on those rules for the wiki, I'm sure it would eliminate a lot of confusion and inappropriate files.

As for the GRAW2 page, maybe you can remove the overly-large screenshots for the MR-C rifle--I can post smaller ones from the PC version. Unfortunately, the PC version's all I have, so until someone uploads screenshots for the console versions too, that page will likely stay incomplete for some time. [[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:39, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

== RD protection change ==

Sorry, YNH asked me to change it back because he saw the movie again and said there was a gun that wasn't on the page. I forgot to change it back afterward [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:05, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

==Tremors: Wall of Guns==
Can you help me find more guns on Burt's wall of guns? I can't identify some because of the picture quality. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 05:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

== Last Samurai screencaps ==

The screencaps are from the DVD. Let me know what movies, I probably have them.--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 10:39, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

== Beat Me to the Draw ==

I was just investigating the anonymous user who blanked the Smith & Wesson semi-auto pages, only to find you'd already nailed him. Good kill, over. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 19:38, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

==S&W 4500==
I never deleted anything from any article. All I did was copy and paste the information from the 4505, 4556, and 4516 articles onto the 4506 article and then changed that article's name. I deliberatly left the other articles unchanged so that if my change was rejected all that was necessary was to change the 4506 page back. Gunman69 recommended after the change that I contact an administrator to check the changes and decide what to do with the old ones so I informed MT2008 (who I believe is an Administrator) of what I did. I never logged in anonymously (well more Anonymously than usual) and wipped out the pages. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

:Sorry I didn't get back to you guys sooner yesterday, but I had a very busy day. I see that the S&W 4500 page has been created and all the variants grouped. Are we good? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:47, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

== Hunter ==

Hey MPM, I've been working a lot on the page for ''[[Hunter]]'' in the last month and am about two episodes shy of completing the first season. I'll be picking up the next two as soon as I can. Since there are at least 51 different firearms used during the first season (and undoubtedly more as the series continues), would you recommend splitting the page up by season like ''Miami Vice''? Also, as long as we're on the TV show subject, do we have a preferred format? I ''tend'' to try and keep the firearms in order of appearance, although this seems more practical for films rather than TV shows. Thanks ahead of time for your input! (P.S. I know some of the entries on the page are a little screencap-happy, but I wanted to try and get a wide pool to chose from, then delete whatever is deemed unnecessary or superfluous at the end of the season) - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 15:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
: Thank you very much for that response! I agree, the 4:3 really makes excess screencapping look even worse, but luckily with the first season complete and the decision to split up the seasons, I can streamline to a 4-7 limit. I'm going to delete some of the YouTube placeholders I had for guns used in later seasons (1-3 are the only ones that have been released on DVD so far) and cross my fingers that the rest will be released soon. I'll also start looking through the weaponry used and if it balances out in terms of handguns, rifles, etc., I'll split them up and leave the main weapons (Hunter's compensated P9S, for example) towards the top and sort the rest alphabetically. Again, thanks very much for your input and hopefully your latest four-day job went well! - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 09:17, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

== Server Speed ==

How's it feeling now? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 01:26, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

==The Way of the Gun==
I added a few screencaps to the page. I know you don't like people adding an excessive amount of screencaps to a page, especially one you worked on. If you think it's one pic too many let me know. I try not be pic happy. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:18, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

==Seecamp==

Nice! Thanks for that! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:15, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

:Hmmmm, good question. I hate to ban somebody permanently who isn't making ''malicious'' edits (vandalizing, spamming, etc.) But I really don't understand why this guy seems to be so incapable of talking to us, especially after he's been asked so many times. Failing to acknowledge our requests is just obnoxious. I don't know if he's autistic or what, but either way, he certainly doesn't seem to get the message. For now, I say ban him temporarily, but let's tell him that if he continues to do what he's been doing, then the next time, the ban ''will'' be permanent. He's had enough warnings, enough times. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:44, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

==user==
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/64.17.73.184 Needs to banned. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 05:09, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

==Thanks (Already Dead) ==
Thank you for the appreciation and comments... Sorry for the hyperlinks, it's been a long time since I've read the rules. I'll propably read them again in a few days :) And for the spoilers on [[Already Dead]]; I tried to keep them as minimal as possible, but for instance the only good view of The Detective's Colt Defender is when he is holding it on his lap when he's dead.

PS. I will also change the hyperlinks from my other pages (Smokin' Aces 2) too, to be in line with the rules... But not yet, since our winter break just started ;) But I'll get to it as soon as I can. Once again, thank you. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:45, March 5 2010 (UTC)

==The Olympic Arms AR-15==

Thanks for the OA rifle! We do need one. But you don't by chance happen to have a C7/Colt 715 upper you can slap onto that lower, do you?

Also, one other thing...I just watched "The Education of Jamie Sommers", and from what I can tell, the M16 that the guy picks up and fires is not the same one seen on the floor. I think they use an Olympic K4B (with the distinctive "Stowaway" grip) when the rifle is lying on the floor, but when he raises the rifle to fire, it's an M16A1. In other words, yet another continuity error. The Olympic ARs used by the BC armorers always seem to be the C7 look-a-likes. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 06:06, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

:One other thing, while I'm at it, a few more things for the ''[[Bionic Woman]]'' page...

:* The Beretta 93R used by the motorcycle assassin is actually a 92FS converted to auto and fitted with a 93R grip (the firing weapon, not just the rubber one). I'm guessing it's probably the same one that was used in ''[[Harsh Realm]]'', and I've also seen that gun in ''[[Wrongfully Accused]]'' and ''[[Seven Days]]''.

:* The M249 used by the guards in the Pilot is almost surely going to be a [[Daewoo K3]]. The BC armorers don't seem to have any real M249s, for reasons I don't understand, so they always use the K3s as stand-ins.

:Hope that helps. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:48, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

== Batman movies categorization ==

I'm not sure what you mean by changing the categories for Batman, because I don't think I touched that part. Could you elaborate? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:58, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

== Predators (2010) ==

Thanks for updating, i couldn't find that pic with the minigun when i wrote the page and ive just found it and was about to amend that section. In the script its definately described as a 4 barrelled GShG so i guess they are just pretending the minigun is the russian gun.--[[User:The Mercenary|The Mercenary]] 18:18, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

== Dirty Harry ==
Any preference regarding the M29 vs. M57 debate going on between me and and another poster on that page. He thinks it should be shown as the Model 57, but I think it should be listed as the M29 with notice given to the possibility that that a M57 was the actual model and served as a body double so to speak. Do you even care? I'm out of it, but you are the webmaster. More or less. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 23:16, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

That would be great. Perhaps Milius will be able to confirm that he had originally intended the M29 to have a four inch barrel and if the production really did obtain two working M29's from the factory. I was involved in an investigation several years ago and actually spoke over the phone with Roy Jinks. I was tracing the background of a S&&W Model 23 that was in our evidence locker, but I think this time it would be an abuse of my authority to call him (he's now semi-retired and working out of his house)to see if that actually happened. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:56, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== About PNGs ==
Sorry about the PNGs! I know how to convert them, but it looks like you already have. Thanks. I will convert them from now on.
--[[User:Linkinpark9812|Linkinpark9812]] 04:05, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

==Dirty Harry Model 29 description wording==
It looks to me like someone either copied IMDb or they copied us. Plagiarism?

Imdb
'':Dirty Harry's gun is supposedly a Smith & Wesson Model 29 revolver, chambered for a .44 Magnum cartridge. In the film, the gun is shown as being capable of sending assailants flying through the air, even when shot from a distance, however, in reality the gun does not produce such dramatic results. Additionally, the .44 Magnum round is not considered to be a practical caliber for urban police force use due to recoil (which makes target re-acquisition difficult) and over-penetration issues, which greatly increases the likelihood of the bullet going through its target and injuring bystanders. The actual gun used on set by Clint Eastwood was reportedly not a Smith & Wesson Model 29. According to a story circulated by a member of the studio's prop department, Smith & Wesson did not have a Model 29 in stock at the time, and so a Smith & Wesson Model 57 chambered for a .41 Magnum cartridge was used. The Model 29 and Model 57 are identical except for minute differences in bore size, chamber dimensions, and exterior markings, none of which are visible in the film. Fans however, have claimed that in a close up at the end of the film, the gun carried by Eastwood is in fact a genuine Model 29 chambered for a .44 Magnum. The close-up clearly shows the markings "44 MAGNU," with the final "M" blocked from view.''

Ours
'':Dirty Harry's gun is a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] revolver, chambered for a .44 Magnum cartridge. In the film, the gun is shown as being capable of sending assailants flying through the air, even when shot from a distance, however, in reality the gun does not produce such dramatic results. Additionally, the .44 Magnum round is not considered to be a practical caliber for urban police force use due to recoil (which makes target re-acquisition difficult) and over-penetration issues, which greatly increases the likelihood of the bullet going through its target and injuring bystanders. The actual gun used on set by Clint Eastwood was reportedly not a Smith & Wesson Model 29. According to a story circulated by a member of the studio's prop department, Smith & Wesson did not have a Model 29 in stock at the time, and so a Smith & Wesson Model 57 chambered for a .41 Magnum cartridge was used. The Model 29 and Model 57 are identical except for minute differences in bore size, chamber dimensions, and exterior markings, none of which are visible in the film. At the end of the film there is a close up of the gun that clearly reads 44 Magnum on the barrel. So the Model 57 may have been used until Model 29's were found.''

I added "At the end of the film there is a close up of the gun that clearly reads 44 Magnum on the barrel. So the Model 57 may have been used until Model 29's were found."

This pic clearly shows 44 magnum on the barrel. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:DH1S&W25-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Proposed wording==

I don't think all that sending guys flying and over penetration stuff is necessary.

Inspector "Dirty" Harry Callahan's sidearm throughout the film is a [[Smith & Wesson Model 29]] with a 6.5" barrel. John Milius who did uncredited rewrites for Dirty Harry notes on the [[Magnum Force]] commentary track. That he had written Callahan to have a Model 29 with a 4" barrel, like he had himself. But only the 6.5" barrel models could be found. There are several sources claiming that when filming began no Model 29's could be found, so the Model 57 chambered in .41 Magnum was used instead. At the end of the film there is a close up of the gun that clearly reads 44 Magnum on the barrel. So the Model 57 may have been used as a stand in until Model 29's were found.

Let me know what you think. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:51, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:I'll add some info about over penetration and it's mainly a hunting caliber, etc. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:33, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== M2 Carbine ==

I read your post in the Forum about M2 Carbines. I can’t log into the forum for whatever reason so I am responding here. I made [[The Eagle Has Landed]] page recently and in the movie they us either M1 or M2 carbine. Now in the film the actors are seen firing them on semi auto and full auto. There is never a real good close-up. Could you take a look at the page and see you can tell if they are M1, M2s or both? I have read that it was pretty easy to convert M1s to fully automatic which would probably explain if they are not M2s, because in the film they clearly are firing on full auto. Any help would be appreciated.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 03:56, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

RE: Thanks for the confirmation. Its funny how British armories would have more M2 Carbines than the US armories. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 17:51, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

MPM,

What about [[Apocalypse Now]]? GM45, I think was the one that changed them to M2. It was filmed in the Philippines so I have no clue about their weapons access. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:51, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:ApnowM1carb-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:ApnowM1carb-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Waterworld ==

Thanks about the page. There's still a few more shots for me to upload. But if you know which ones were left off, let me know.
--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:16, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

==Howa Type 89 help==

Mate, I need to edit something as I updated an article regarding a name change from Library War to Toshokan Senso. Thanks. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 08:20, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

: Got your "request". Took care of it. I'll wait for the article unlock. Thanks. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 08:32, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

==Mistake==

Apologies over the Library War article. I overlooked it. Will fix all reverts to it once article is unlocked. I'm also waiting for the availability of the Howa Type 89 article so that I can work on it also. Thanks. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 17:46, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Happy Now==

Excellent, thank you, sir! Yes, I am quite happy.

Well, OK, not quite (and I apologize in advance if I sound demanding). There is one thing I've mentioned: All of the "C7s"/"Model 715s" we have documented on IFMDB are actually Olympic Arms K4Bs. Those are what the British Columbia armorers use, because as we've noticed, they seem to love Oly. The M16 that appears on your page for ''[[Bionic Woman]]'' is also a K4B (the M16A1 only appears due to a continuity error when the guy fires it). So what I kinda hoped was that you take the upper receiver from this...

[[Image:Colt715 C7Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

...and fit it onto the lower receiver from this:

[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

So that you would have (effectively) a pre-1994 OlyArms K4B rifle. Of course, I do realize that I can't demand anything, and how hard it is to take the pics. But ''if'' you were to do that, you would have an accurate representation of the "Model 715" rifles that appear in Vancouver productions (which account for almost all of the "C7"/"Model 715" appearances that we have ever documented on IMFDB).

BTW, thanks also for the M1 Paratrooper model. Something else we've needed for a while. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:04, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==RE: There's no pleasing you ==

I know, I know...it must be my "aspergian" tendency or whatever to be so obsessive. ;) Seriously, it's not a ''huge'' deal if we just use the Model 715 you photographed, since, pistol grip aside, it's the same gun as the Oly K4B.

''So are all the Canadian shows have the Oly grip on them? Are you sure?''

Obviously, I can't be 100% sure. But I can tell you that the Model 715s that appear in ''[[Millennium]]'', ''[[Viper]]'', ''[[Harsh Realm]]'', ''[[M.A.N.T.I.S.]]'', and now ''[[Bionic Woman]]'' all definitely have the Oly "Stowaway" pistol grip, so they must be full-auto conversions of Oly K4Bs. All of those shows were filmed in British Columbia, so my '''gut feeling''' is that if you see a show that was filmed in British Columbia and it has C7-type AR-15s, the rifles in question are probably from the same batch of K4Bs owned by whatever armory exists in Vancouver. It seems like a safe bet, right? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Stargate/Seven Days==

There are a lot of TV shows filmed in British Columbia (especially Vancouver), but I'm pretty sure there's only one major armory in the province that supplies to all of them. There aren't that many shows where the pistol grips on the Model 715s are visible, but it still strikes me as highly likely that they're all K4Bs if they all come from the same armory.

*(1.) I wasn't able to see the pistol grips on the episode of ''[[Stargate: SG1]]'' that had the Model 715s (the one that Excalibur screencapped), but again, if it's the same armory that supplied ''[[Viper]]'' and ''[[Millennium]]'', then the guns are presumably the same ones: K4Bs.

*(2.) I don't remember if I've ever seen any Model 715s on ''[[Seven Days]]'', though I can check again. The firing M16s I can recall seeing on that show were all M16A1s with A2 handguards (the non-firing scenes all used Airsoft M16A2s).

As for the Photoshopped pictures, yes, let's keep deleting them. I'm trying to recall if I've seen anymore. The only one we still have that I recall is the XM16E1 picture that Steve Karnes made (it's still on the M16 page). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:14, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==RE: C7 stuff==

I'll replace the C7/Model 715 picture on all the other pages later tonight.

As for the receiver, what you've told me is interesting because it seems to explain why we probably see the Oly K4Bs in all of these Vancouver productions. You're saying that Colt wouldn't even sell its lowers to armorers? Presumably, this would apply to the Canadians, too. Maybe the armory in Vancouver wanted to buy C7-style rifles in case they ever had to work on a movie depicting the Canadian forces (since, in the early-90s, the C7 is what the CF still used). But since Al has told me that Diemaco wouldn't sell them any of its rifles, ''and'' since Colt wouldn't have either, OlyArms would have made the most sense for them, because the pre-94 K4B looks like the C7 and because Oly's plant is just across the border (a few hours away).

I'm speculating, of course, but it would explain a lot, no? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Colt cowards==

Yeah, I remember what cowards Colt were, long before the AWB was ever passed. I'm old enough to remember those badly neutered "Match Target" rifles being the only Colt rifles available at FFLs. I just didn't think they were such pussies that they treated ''armorers'' the same way. If they did, then I think it would go a long way towards explaining the use of Oly K4B rifles by the Vancouver armorers - they couldn't have bought C7s from Diemaco, but they also wouldn't have been able to get Model 715s or AR-15 A2s from Colt (without going through red tape, presumably), so going to OlyArms was probably the easiest way for them to get a C7-style gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:38, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==RE: 715 photo ==

Nah, I don't think it matters too much, since it's only the right side of the gun that's visible (not the left). It still looks extremely close to a 715, which is what matters most for our purposes.

I have also been planning to buy a 20" upper and A2 buttstock for my DPMS Panther carbine that I bought this past January. I already have a Stowaway pistol grip on the gun (which I bought direct from Oly). I was planning to buy an A2-style barreled upper, but do you think I should get a Model 715-style upper instead? I don't care too much about having the A1-style rear sight, after all (I can't imagine I'll ever be shooting at distances where I'd need to just for elevation, and I'm not that good, anyway). '''If''' I get a 715 barreled upper and slap it on my DPMS lower with the Oly grip, I will have a rifle that looks (from the right side) identical to an Oly K4B, so I can photograph it and you can edit it for IMFDB use. What do you think? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:12, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==RE:==

Cool. Yeah, I guess it does look a bit closer to the real thing, but you gotta admit: Few people will notice. Just look at all the mistakes on World Guns or Security Arms (or any other site with gun photos).

Also, I did the ''[[Harsh Realm]]'' page ages ago. Contrary to what I said on the page, the Model 715s which appear on that show are definitely OlyArms K4Bs. In the opening scene of the Pilot episode, [[Max Martini]] has his rifle slung over his back in one scene, and it's possible to see that it has a Stowaway grip. Plus, ''[[Harsh Realm]]'' was done in Vancouver, and like I've said, the armorers there definitely use K4Bs to simulate C7s/Model 715s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:37, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

==RE:==
Really sorry for that, will make sure it does not happen again.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 10:13, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

==removed comment==
"The SP89 was obviously a lazy choice by the film's armorer, because the book clearly specifies a full-auto MP5K."

That was not written by me. About all I did on that page was the images. I'm not one to write comments like that. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:31, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

:Well, I am guilty of not deleting it when I worked on the page. It's been awhile since I work on that page, I just happened to check it out when comparing the holsters worn by Tommy Lee Jones in "No Country" and "In the Electric Mist". --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:40, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

==Archer==
I recently took alot of screencaps from the show ''Archer'' and when I went to create the page noticed that a page for that show had already been created and deleted with the message that western animation was not allowed on IMFDB. Below are a few of the screencaps I took from the show:
[[Image:Archerkalash.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Note the area above the magazine indicating that this was specifically intended to be an AK-47]]
[[Image:Cubanuzi.JPG|thumb|none|600px|This weapon is clearly a full sized Uzi]]

I refrained from taking images of any weapons that appeared in the show that were amorphous drawings that beared no resemblance to real weapons, however to ban western animation that clearly represents actual weapons seems to reflect more on personal prejudice rather than quality standards as there are Video Game and a few Anime articles on this site that feature guns with far less clear basis on real weapons than many of those featured on this show. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==RE: P228==

Personally, I'm fine with your P228 picture for now. We can certainly replace it with a jacked image from Google if you really don't like it. But if so, the proper way to do so is to upload over the old one, whereas Mr. Joker is trying to add the image to just one page. And he's ignoring my attempts to talk about it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:34, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

==Reply: Archer==
I only brought the matter to you because it appeared that you were the one who had previously deleted the ''Archer'' article. I too have never been a fan of having video games and Anime on this site (truth be told I'm not that fond of either media in general). The only articles I have created so far have all been live action films and television shows, however, watching the show ''Archer'' I noticed that the guns were rendered far better than in most western animation and thought it might be interesting to make a page for the series. I apologize if it seemed I was singling you out for complaints and would like to know if there is another admin I should clear the idea with first before I go through the trouble of building the page. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==Another request==
In the Frankengun thread on the forums, you said you'll take request but we can't hound you about when we're getting them. So another request.

We need a Colt Python snub nose with nickel finish. We have two images of blued finish models that are jacked from the web. But nickel is more priority since we don't have one. Thanks. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:40, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Get94-python3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|[[Getaway, The (1994)]].]]
[[Image:NBT-Revolver-Thug.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|[[Nothing But Trouble]].]]

Here is a photo I found on the Internet. Only one I was able to locate, but if nothing else it can fill in until something better comes along. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 21:22, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Nickelpython.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Nickel plated [[Colt Python]] - .357 magnum]]

== Three Kings ==
I used my copy of the DVD. IDK if it means anything, but i used Windows Snipping tool to take the shots. All of my movies that I've upload have been on legally purchased DVDs. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

==Re: Atlantis: The Lost Empire==
I replaced the images with widescreen images and I even increased the picture size to 600px. Hope this helps. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 04:42, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

== Hey ==

Hey MPM2008, I would like to say welcome back from the Pacific, I hope you really enjoyed your time there. I also have a question, is this M60 you uploaded back in September from your armory?

[[Image:M60GPMG.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|M60 machine gun with bipod folded - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

If so, why didn't you put your copyright on it? It's no big deal, I'm just asking since it's a great picture, and I want to know if it's yours. Thanks.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:45, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

== Re:M60 ==

Yeah, sorry I haven't been around lately, been caught up in school work, but I'm back to help now. I think I might have stopped those those spammers using the the Index.php to hi for good. I deleted the Index.php and protected it, so far it seems to work. Also, there is this new user named [[User:SuperModerator|SuperModerator]] claiming to be a mod. Should be say something to him?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:13, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

:Damn, somebody was impersonating a mod? My bad for not seeing it. Also, how was the show? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:30, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

:Okay then, thanks for getting rid of him. He was likely one of those people pretending be a moderator in order to insult other users and keep them from talking back to him. Thanks again for showing what a real mod can do.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:32, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I've slipped and acted like a jerk myself alot while banning people, lol. But yes, We can't afford having fake mods making us look bad, I think spammers and Vandals are already enough to deal with.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:22, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

:I'm trying to keep up with everything. Even though I basically work in front of a computer for 10 hrs a day (which means I tend to come on here when I'm feeling distracted), I still miss out sometimes on annoying anonymous users. My tendency is to notice if they edit a page that I worked on, but not always other stuff.

:Also, thanks for the new M733 photo. Also, that's cool that you get to go to Rome. What do you mean by advisory capacity? Just curious. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:11, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

==Question about Colt Model 733 Carbine==

I noticed that you just edited the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Carbine/Model 653/Model 727/Model 733|Colt Model 733]] section of the [[M16 rifle series]] page to remove the comment about genuine Colt Model 733's having A2-style upper recievers. I take it then that this statement was false and real Model 733's actually have an A1-style upper? Just want to verify this for future reference. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 08:28, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

==Massive Amount of Guns==

Am watching a National Geographic special on Guns in America and was considering creating a page for it. Thing is the number if weapons visible in the thing is so overwhelming I have no idea how long the page would be. Any suggestions? Age: 41 Country: Canada --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 13:40, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks for the tip. In actuality the thing seemed to strive for some semblance of balance but, as with most documentaries of this sort, did seem a little anti-gun. What I found funny about it was some of the interview subjects which included two purported trauma specialists (MDs) who were capping rounds at a range and both seemed almost giddy in the process and a self avowed pacifist who owns, among other things, a custom MAC-11, an M-16 model of some sort and several others (all Class 3) which he keeps as "investments for his grandchildren". --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 15:55, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==Situation Critical==
Thanks for the information you gave. BTW can you help me recognize the exact variant of the [[Situation Critical#Heckler & Koch G3A4|G3A4]], it may be a G3KA4 or a HK91. My age is 15 and I do not live in North America (cannot specify my exact region).--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 06:05, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks and that is the North Hollywood Shootout episode. Are there any other such airsoft weapons in the page?--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 06:07, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

==Disambiguation page==
I have created some disambiguation pages,eg, [[M3]] and [[Delta Force]] to improve page navigation in IMFDB. Considering the latter I used to hate when I typed to search the video game Delta Force when the site redirected me to the movie page Delta Force with the same name. So I am currently in the process of making disambiguation pages for pages with similar titles to make navigating pages easy. Ben41 asked me recieve the sysop's consent before undertaking this project.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 14:28, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Re: the member on probation ==

Thanks, and yeah, I'm going to keep an eye on him. It's one thing getting to a heated argument with other users, but openly insulting other users over spelling, and a lack of knowledge is just plain trolling. Oliviera may have went too far with the swearing sometimes, but atleast he contributes to the site, but if this user is only here for discussion, he might as well be nice about it. I agree with your warning too, it should make him think twice before snapping at other users. Thanks again.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:00, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== RE: StrikerDelta ==

Welcome back, hope you're enjoying your trip so far. As for StrikerDelta, he came back under the IP address 173.62.63.63 a few days ago, see his contributions
[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/173.62.63.63] here, and deleted the content on a whole bunch of pages, and I banned him for that too, so that should get rid of him for good. As for the address you mentioned, I'm not certain that's him, but I'll definitely keep a watch on him, if he goes too far with deleting stuff, I'll let him know. Any way, other then that, Good luck with your work, let me know if you need anything.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== Hey, MPM ==
ProtoAuthor here, I've forgotten my login, and the email won't come to me. But I see we now have a Silent Hill 3 page. I've been contributing as of last night, but I want to upload official images from the press releases. I'd scan my guide, but I don't have it with me, and it won't look as good. So, I hope my email comes soon.

==Blank adaptions==
I posted this question on the Star Model B page but figured it would be better to ask you directly as you're the leading authority on this site. Around what time did armorers resolve the issue of converting larger calibre guns to cycle blanks so that it was no longer necessary to do things like use a Star Model B as a 1911 or make fake 1911s with revolvers inside as was done in [[FBI Story, The|The FBI Story]]? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]] 00:32, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

== User talk:99.12.124.133 ==

I hate to report this, but this user keeps creating pages with only a minimal amount of information and I'm not sure what to do. I hate to have to go and fix every page this user makes. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

==RE: We Were Soldiers==

Holy crap, you got screen-used gun pics from ''[[We Were Soldiers]]''? Beautiful! -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:42, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== We Were Soldiers and screencapping ==

Thanks, I'll make sure in the future to have some screencaps ready before I start the pages. As for the We Were Soldiers page, I saw that you're deleting some screencaps and have replaced some. I had some HD caps ready for the M60 section and the M1 section, but if you want to do the rest, that's fine with me. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 00:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== PNG's to be deleted ==

What's the best way to let you know that you can delete some of the PNG's I've replaced with JPG's? What I've tried to do is use the same filename for the JPG as was used for the PNG. If you look at [[The Incredible Hulk]] page, I've replaced the PNG's with JPG versions, so you can delete the PNG files. I've done the same thing for the [[Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine]]. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:01, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== RE: We Were Soldiers AK ==

Hey, MPM, I have a question...did anyone at CW tell you if the ''[[We Were Soldiers]]'' AKs have been used on any other shows? Also, I'm wondering if we should use that AK to replace many of the jacked Internet AK images that we've already got.

BTW, I finally learned why Canadian movies and TV shows have so many Olympic Arms AR rifles. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:42, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

==RE:==

Yeah, I hate those jacked images, too. I especially hate that people keep using the picture of a Type I AK-47, which is something that has almost surely never appeared in a single movie (not in the West, anyway). Even the Type IIs are pretty rare (although at least one appeared in ''[[Blood Diamond]]''). But I figure that since the ''[[We Were Soldiers]]'' AK is about the closest we have (for now) to a Russian AK that's all our own, we could use it as a placeholder until we find a "general" image. Kind of like the way that we use the nickel Baby Eagle from ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' as our standard version.

As for OlyArms and the Canucks, I got the following info from an anonymous source:

* The big armory in British Columbia is run by a guy named Tom Felcan. His company has changed names a lot (Felcan International, Felcan Enterprises, or just Tom Felcan), but it's the same guy in charge. '''Any''' movie or TV show filmed in British Columbia gets its weapons from Tom Felcan - ''The X-Files'', all of the ''Stargate'' shows, ''Seven Days'', ''Battlestar Galactica'', etc.

* In the early-90s, Felcan made a bulk purchase from OlyArms. The records are all gone (due to the fire at the OA plant from 10 years ago), but my source remembers Felcan approaching them to purchase a ''very'' large quantity of K4B rifles and K3B carbines, both complete guns and upper receiver kits, around '91-'92. These were all semi-auto civvie rifles, but a few years later, Oly sold Felcan a smaller number of LEO flattop K3B and K23B "stubby" carbines (again, as either complete rifles or upper receivers-only).

In short, that's why you see so many Oly guns in productions from that neck of the woods. Speaking of which, I'm doing some more work on the page you started for ''[[Jeremiah]]'', and that show has a ton of AR rifles made by OA. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:23, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

== The Sopranos PJK-9HP ==
Thanks for identifying the PJK-9HP used by [[Tony Sirico]] on an episode of ''[[The Sopranos]]''. I knew it was a FEG (thanks to the help of another contributor), but was unable to find exactly which model. With the fantastic new photo you uploaded, that page (one of my favorite of my own articles) is now even better. Again, just a small thing but I wanted to thank you for that contribution! Hope all's been well. - [[User:Speakeasy804|Speakeasy804]] 07:28, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

==Delete list==
Got a better view of the rifle used in this episode. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:54, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Roy_rifle.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Roy_rifle2.jpg

== Hybrid Pictures ==
Hey MPM2008, I remember you saying something about you not wanting any "Frankengun" pictures made from your images. Well, I found this on the Thompson Submachinegun page: [[Image:MiModtommy.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M1928A1 Thompson with 30-round magazine, early 'simplified' rear sight, and side-folding stock - .45 ACP]]

It's been on the site for quite awhile, what do you want done with it?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 19:43, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== Re: Hybrid ==
I took the Hybrid picture off the Thompson page, but left it on the movie page for now. As for the sniper rifle, beautiful image! Feel free to overwrite any of the gun pictures I uploaded whenever you please. Keep up the good work.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:47, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Excellent work. Thanks for the screen used guns from [[We Were Soldiers]] too. Long Mountain Outfitters must be getting jealous.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:59, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

==Virus==
Nice job on ''[[Virus]]''. Here's something you might want to point out on your page:
[[Image:Virus-MPIAK74NK RunA.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|The mock MPI-74NK from ''[[Virus]]'']]
Now compare to these images from ''[[Seven Days]]'' (1.11 - "HAARP Attack"):

[[Image:Vlcsnap-00077.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Vlcsnap-00078.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Vlcsnap-00081.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

Coincidence? I think not. ;) I remember this weapon also appeared in an episode of ''[[JAG]]''; I believe it was originally Mike Gibbons' gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:08, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

==Interesting email I recieved==
I recieved an interesting email today in regards to deleting a duplicate image of an [[RKG-3 anti-tank grenade]], filename 'RKG-3 GRENADE REPLICA.jpg' and I thought I should share it to see what you and the other senior admins think of it. Below is the bulk of the message in its entirety:

"Hello,

Thank you for the image update on IMFDB, we didn’t load those images originally due to copyright issues and chose to use an image from our company website instead. Any questions you have regarding ordnance or weapons feel free to send an email. Thank you and any questions, please do not hesitate to let me know.

Sincerely,

M. Patrick Jordan
Sales and Logistics

INERT PRODUCTS, LLC.
INERT EXPLOSIVE TRAINING PRODUCTS
Email - Sales@Inertproducts.com
Phone: 1-570-341-3751
Fax: 570-300 -1693
http://www.inertproducts.com"

If I'm interpreting this correctly, it sounds like someone uploaded a copyrighted image without permission and the owners of the image emailed me to thank me for removing it. What do you think? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 18:42, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

==Re: Inert ordnance==
I was contacted by him on AIM not long ago; he's the person who uploaded the picture I removed. Apparently he uploaded it not realizing we already had a picture of that weapon. He's a pretty cool guy; served as an EOD in the Army prior to retiring. He's here under [[User:MPJOrdTech]]. Good to have yet another expert to add to our stable of professionals. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:24, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield Mk II revolver ==
I sure don't have any (non) jacked images. Wish I did. However Nyles might be a good resource. Not only is he an old gun collector with connections, but he's Canadian and the Mk II was issued to the Mounties so there might be several up north that can be photographed. Who was the armoer for [[Silverado]] ? That movie was filmed in 84 in New Mexico and John Cleese used one. Could that be a possible connection? Or did you already think of that? Anyway that's all I have for ideas. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:08, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

==Hudson AK-47 replica==
Thanks for the info, but are you sure those are the .22 AK clones? I saw one of those up-close once, and the one I saw had a less-curved magazine (almost shaped like a Norinco Type 84 mag). I can't remember what brand it was, but I think the receiver said that it was imported by Mitchell Arms. Also, haven't the Hudson AK-47s' manufacturing specs been changed a whole bunch of times? The ones that they made in the 1980s look quite different from the ones they make today (I've seen pictures of those, too). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:44, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

== Film Template page ==

I think with the poster line at the top, it makes the table of contents go all the way below the poster. With the way it's put on [[The American]] (which is one of the pages I started), I prefer having the top of the poster aligned with the table of contents. But that's just my preference. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:41, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

== Pictures Question ==
I was wondering, are you still closed to gun picture requests? I was asking because I was wondering if it would be possible to get a picture of an M16A4 with an M203 grenade launcher, as there are several articles (namely ''[[Legion]]'' and ''[[Project Reality]]'', to name a couple) that could benefit from such an image. I hope to hear from you soon on this, and wish you well. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

== Zastava pictures ==
Can you block this guy and delete the unnecessary Zastava pictures that he uploaded.
[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/Boksi]
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 08:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Limited Time offer==

Hey, MPM! First off, I'm on a pretty busy trip to the capital city right now (my first as a lobbyist), but thanks for making this offer. Right now, I'm pretty tired, so I can't really think of what I'd love to see on the site. But off the top of my head - can you see if anyone has a [[Daewoo K3]], especially a Paratrooper model? I ''think'' Mike Gibbons used to have a few of them, but not sure. Also, since ''[[Predators]]'' is out in theaters now (saw it recently, BTW), do you know who has the screen-used guns from that movie? I'm sure I'll think of ''lots'' more later, but those will do for now, LOL. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:46, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:Oh, and one other thing: Do you know anybody who has a Knight's Armament Revolver Rifle? I've been searching in vain to find a good picture of one of those. They're pretty rare. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:40, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

==RE:==

Hmmm, I'm stumped. I can tell you that in some of the screencaps, it's a SIG Non-Gun. But a few of the images show a gun that looks like a Taurus PT945, yet the cocking serrations are too tall, so I don't think that's what it is. I'm really not sure, gonna have to look some more. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:22, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==RE: M3 carbine Pic==
I thought before that Kin93 was replacing your pic without permission since that all of your firearm images are taken from a real armory until you told me that yours was a fixed image of someone's image :) - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Invasion USA ==

I don't know if you're still working on this one, I added a few screenshots to [[Invasion U.S.A. (1985)]]. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== In reply to "You're gone I hear" ==

Hi, hope you are doing well. Probably you have gone through [[User:SB2296|SB2296]]'s talk page.

Yes you are right, this American site does not has to somehow change to suit my view of the world. Well you can have your American site. Neither I wanted this site to comply with my worldview, nor to start an argument with you. I just had a doubt. As far as I can recall, I have never claimed that IMFDB's '''I''' stands for '''INTERNATIONAL'''. May be you are right that the DEMAND made it INTERNATIONAL. But again, people from other part of the world could easily misinterpret this as nothing was mentioned regarding its STRICTLY American nature. It is quite difficult for a non-American to understand that '''Internet''' Movie Firearms '''Data Base''' '''is restricted to America'''.

You are talking about '''WORLDVIEW'''.
What world view can describe the '''obscureness''' of the film [[New York]]? see: '''22:39, 1 November 2009 AdAstra2009's comment''' here: [[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Wallpaper&action=history]]. Irrespective of the fact that the page has clear screen caps and well researched, it is obscure. I can understand that wallpaper was removed as it was not in a typical desktop res but whats wrong with the film? 'high and mighty Americans' (your words, not mine) perhaps can answer this.

And last but not the least, You get revenue because people voluntarily contribute. Even my SUCKED UP pages give you revenue, no matter how small, but they still do so. If you think those pages are realy sucked up, please delete them (including all the foreign pages which does not meet quality standards). But please dont think in your mind that why foreign pages are left halfway finished.

Thanks. [[User:Ritwikbmca|ritwikbmca]] 17:24, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

==Talk:Index.php==
I'm thinking we should recreate that page and protect it, so only admins can touch it. I had delete it twice this morning in a short period of time.

I watched the preview for The Walking Dead a few days ago. Looks pretty good, reminds me of cross between 28 Days Later (waking up in a hospital) and The Crazies (sheriff). --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

==re:Russian Spammer==
Yeah I kind of figured it was spammer. If they're in a foreign language they usually are. Another thing I noticed, once a spammer hits a talk page, they'll keep on that same page until the protection level is changed. This one talk page got spammed three times before I wised up. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:42, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Front paging ==

I was wondering who of the Admins is responsible for the front page featuring of articles. People put so much work into the [[Stargate SG-1|SG-1]] Article over the past few months, I personally thing that it is quite presentable by now. If the one responsible needs any help with picking caps for the FP, feel free to ask me :P --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 07:22, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== What are your views on getting this page deleted ==
[["Seburo Firearms"]] I mean really, they are completely fake. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 01:46, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

== Zombie Wiki ==

Hey MPM2008, I'm not sure if you knew this but I have spotted a bunch of your images being used on the Zombie Wiki here: [http://zombie.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons]. I not sure if you gave them permission to use the images, but the way the images are viewed won't allow me to see who uploaded them. Just wanted to make sure you knew about it.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 01:48, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:I checked it out and they give just give credit for the pictures '''to IMFDB just in general'''. I'm not sure if You're okay with just that, but I just thought I would check it out. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 19:47, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
::To find the person who uploaded it, put ''Image:'' after the name of the image and then you'll find out. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:26, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

== Zombie ==
Pkay so you think the Zombie sub-cateogry should be movie and television only? Am I understanding you correctly? I have no problem with that and I can change it. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:27, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

I understand and agree with you. I'm changing it. By the way have you see the commericals for the new AMC series starting on Halloween ''[[Walking Dead, The|The Walking Dead]]''? Produced by [[Frank Darabont]] and Gale Ann Hurd? Something tells me you have. I'll be watching it. At least for the first few episodes. Me and zombie movies go back 30 + years.My guilty pleasure. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:24, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Picture Notes==
I was wondering if I could get your opinion on something I have been doing about notes in the frames of gun pictures. Because a lot of the weapon pictures we have uploaded to the sight have information already in the bottom of the frame, when I have needed to make a comment about the specific weapon featured in the show in comparison to the pictured weapon, I have made my comments bold and italicized to differentiate them from the information normally in the frame. Below is an example I did on the ''[[Bones]]'' article:

:''In the episode "Mummy in the Maze," the murderer dressed as a clown uses a sawn-off double barrel shotgun in his shootout with Booth.''
[[Image:SBS-Shotgun Scarface.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|'''''The weapon in the episode was sawn down to the semi-pistol grip portion of the stock with the barrels left relatively long, similar to this weapon''''' - 12 gauge.]]

The bold text is used to compare the weapon in the show to the one in the picture, something I also did on the ''[[Love Kills]]'' page. I was curious if you thought this might be something I should try to popularize or if maybe I should refrain from putting article-specific notes in the frames of gun images at all. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

== Beretta AR ==

Can I know why the Beretta AR 70/90 has been removed? What I wrong? --[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 09:48, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ok, I updated the right section. However now would be more correct to call the page "Beretta AR-70 Series" rather than "Beretta AR-70/223.--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 09:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

::What fuck have I done? I tell you what I did. Yesterday I created the new section "Beretta AR 70/90", which disappeared after a few hours I do not know why. I asked why is disappered and you rightly told me that it was not necessary to open two pages of the same weapon. So this morning I updated the existing "Beretta AR-70/223" section. Now you tell me very rudely that I've done a mess, can I know where I wrong?--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 21:35, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

It Appears that Charly Driver deleted the "gun" category tag, by mistake or by ignorance of it's purpose I assume. I've fixed it. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 21:42, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

== La Femme Nikita ==

I was going to change it, but it looks like you already did. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:42, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

== Re:The perpetrator ==

I left a message on the page's discussion, but no one seems to have responded. As for MattyDienhoff, I say warn about your copyright policies. I wouldn't be too hard on him since he appears to be a young user and more then likely didn't know about your copyright.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:36, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

== User 173.62.63.157 ==
Thanks to you, man. Long as he's gone either way. I just don't tend to leave messages about problem members on every admin's page (hell, I don't even know 'em all), but well, whatever I guess. Thanks again Mastah. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:14, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
== RE Section Headers ==
Sorry about that, I'll keep it in mind in the future. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 06:38, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
==Total Recall==
Better check out the addition from the supposed inventor. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:03, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Also I sent a message to Bunni and I've locked the page so only admin can make changes. Just being careful right now. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:18, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
: I know people that have dealt with John Goncz in the industry. He uses a lot of cursing and threats but generally he is regard as being highly eccentric. His weapon as long since past it's prime but he believes it made a fortune on the film industry. You should talk to Syd some more about him and move from there. --[[User:Phoenixent|phoenixent]] 22:31, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. I started to think that myself, but I knew you would be more familiar with this situation. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

== Zombie Wiki ==

Hey MPM2008, I have talked to the head of the Zombie Wiki, Philodox a few days ago about the issue with your images on his wiki, and he responded saying that he respects you and IMFDB. I also gave him a list of the images, and also Matty Dienoff isn't who uploaded your images there, there's also a user named Angel 956 also uplaoded a few onto the site. Right now, I'm just waiting to see if the images get deleted. If you want to talk to Philodox yourself, here's a link to his profile [http://zombie.wikia.com/wiki/User:Philodox], and here's his response to me, if you want to see what he had to say [http://zombie.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:72.226.76.56].
--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:56, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem, I knew you said you had an electronic tag somewhere on your images, and that's what I told Philodox. As for watermarking, I really don't like the idea of having a big IMFDB symbol on the side of the image, as I too believe this ruins the image. But one idea I do like is to have the site's name or your name on one of the corners of the image, like you put on this Cetme Ameli you shot for that user from wikipedia:

[[Image:CetmeAmeliIMFDBVer2.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Notice on the bottom left corner you put Courtesy of www.imfdb.org. I wouldn't mind something like that as it doesn't disturb the image so much and it won't be too noticeable, but users will still see it and know who it belongs to as long as the lettering is darker then this image.]]

Anyway that's my opinion. Let me know what you decide.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 04:12, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

==Specifications template==
I have just now created a proper template for the specifications section (example [[Unique Alpine TPG-1|here]]). Although it is amateurish it is the best one I could do, please suggest ways in improving it.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:48, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

== RE: Your Expertise ==

While I thank you for suggesting that I become the black powder flintlock expert, I am not quite sure that I am up to the task. Though I have some experience and interest in flintlocks, I couldn't tell you specifics on them, such as the style of Pennsylvania Rifle (Allentown, Dickert, Lancaster, or York for example), nor could I tell you specifics such as what model of certain flintlocks, like was it a second or third model Brown Bess. Yet, if you want to shoot me a question on flintlocks or black powder, I will try my best to help out where I can. Right now I am just comfortable commenting on pages, as I am a new user.
--[[User:Markethunter|Markethunter]] 18:58, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

==Ultraviolet - My Mistake==

- I didn't mean to cause a problem. I admittedly wasn't sure how much 'blades' and whatnot were actually allowed or not on a page - I know you fellas have had some trouble defining limits on the knives/blades/etc before. Anyway again, I apologize for that. I appreciate you giving me a better idea of what's acceptable for pages so I'll keep it in mind. Glad to hear my help isn't causing any other problems thus far. Thanks again. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

== Axeman and Lost Images ==

On the [[Lost]] page, the user Axeman keeps reverting the screencaps back to originals he put up. Axeman's images weren't cropped and were too dark. I put up a comparison of his images next to mine on the Lost Discussion page. I think mine would be preferable, but I want to get some other opinions. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:38, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

==Screencaping tool==
What screencaping tool, DVD player, or software you used? I'm asking this because your pictures are quite sharper than Ben41's saturated images. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 03:28, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm referring to movies like [[Body of Lies]], [[Kick Ass]], and [[Sucker Punch]]. Ben41's images are quite similar to mine as both have adjusted contrast, brightness and a large amount of saturation. Sometimes, Ben41's images may be as sharp as yours probably because he uses the Blu-Ray version. Also, since that you are using an Apple software, is there a Microsoft Windows program similar to the Mac program you mentioned about on my talk page? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:32, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

== Copyright issue ==

Greetings

Some great image work for sure. Is it possible to use three of your pictures (namely - those of Mossberg 500, FN FAL and Tommy Gun M1A1) for my gun articles written for my website?
Strictly non-commercial use intended, of course. 
PS- Although I'm in general oppose the very concept of "copyright" and Russian Civil Code grants some fair use rights for personal non-commercial use - I find that polite to ask the author first. 
Best regards, Mikhail. --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] 11:42, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

* Thank's for the answer.
The images in question are
[[Image:FN-LAR-with-Wood-Stock.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Original FN LAR ''Light Automatic Rifle'' - full auto rifle with Wooden buttstock - 7.62x51mm.]] 
[[Image:Mossberg500AT.jpg|thumb|right|450px|Mossberg 500AT Shotgun - 12 gauge. Note the wood furniture.]] 
and this one 
[[Image:M1sb.jpg|thumb|right|400px|M1A1 Thompson with 30-round magazine .45 ACP]] 
PS- As for my conceptions about copyright- they are simple. If it is non-commercial use, it should be OK and free. For commercial use- royalties are to be paid to the authors.
PPS- Some of my notes about weapons in Fallout series of games were copied and presented as herself-written by the person who did the copypaste. The problem was - she didn't know a thing about firearms - like putting my description of a bolt-action hunting rifle to a semi-auto rifle, or more hilarious- putting the description of a double-barrelled shotgun to "suit" a single-cartridge home-made rifle. I just LOL'd at this.

Best regards, Mikhail --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] 17:19, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

== Permissions ==

So may I use the images of yours I mentioned above on my website?
Entirely non-commercial use intended with no modifications to the photos of course.

Best regards, Mikhail --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] 19:38, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== AK-101s and photos ==

Thanks))

Well, you are a sysop and it is in your discrestion to revert my edits if you find them unsuitable. Just in my point of view AK-101 is essentially an AK-74 chambered for 5,56mm. That's the reason.

About the photos - well I only uploaded that of better quality or just more correct ones- for example old AK-101 photo depicted a commercial semi-auto AK-74 clone, 5,45x39mm (more curved mag than AK-101).--[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] 20:06, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

> he reason is that most movies made in the U.S. and Canada during the 1980s used Chinese guns (and the random Egyptian or Yugoslavian guns) but the only variants we saw for decades was either 7.62x39mm or 5.56x45mm.
Well, this was also general case during 1980s here in Russia as well )) Most films used AKM and AKMS rifles, and AK-74s were not widely displayed in movies. Nowadays, however the AKS-74 and AKS-74U are the main Kalashnikov-type weapons used in Russian movies, they are supplied by MVD's Forces of Interior arsenals. 
PS- However, it is interesting, why the 007-Golden Eye movie sticked to Chinese Type-56 modified to look like AKS-74s rather than having real AKS-74 supplied by MVD. (Remembering they DID leased an actual TANK from MVD Interior Forces). 
PPS- By the way - are Soviet and Russian movies and TV-series OK to get an article here?--[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] 23:11, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Well - about the quality of screencaps from Soviet movies - sometimes it is just that the DVD version couldn't offer better quality than original film was - and they were filmed with traditional camera - non digital were awailable. 
PS And by the way - I spotted a Solo Voyage article here - wow- I thought that movie would be outright banned in USA. 
PPS- I put in an attribution tags on the photos. Here they are 
http://s49.radikal.ru/i123/1010/f8/9eb6cf67b2db.jpg - FN FAL 
http://s004.radikal.ru/i207/1010/42/0ec59abd7996.jpg - M1A1 Thompson 
http://s59.radikal.ru/i165/1010/d6/d75f8c45ca2b.jpg - Mossberg 500

Thanks again for the pics --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] 00:45, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Colt Category ==

Yeah that discussion was before my time. Not a problem. I'll delete it. I see your logic. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:45, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Well I have my moments of course. But the many years I spent in the Army and the past ten years as a cop have taught me most of the time to choose my words carefully and keep a grip on my temper. Though there are some folks here in my city (where I both live and work) who hate my guts. I've invited them to come by and see me at my house since they're so quick to tell me where I live. But for some reason they never take me up on my offer. Very strange.

Well anyway not a problem. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:57, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Solo Voyage, movie bans and etc ==

Well - honestly saying, here in Russia back at Soviet times there was Goskino's (State Dept. of Movie Industry) instructions to generally refrain from depicting an all-out conflict between Russia and America. That was the general policy - therefore Soviet analog to your Red Dawn just do not exist. So, all American military get depicted as an OpFor in Soviet movies are portraid as renegade, and not of "main-line" US Armed Forces. ;) 
As for banning movies -nowadays it is IMHO of no use - both in Russia and in USA. There is an entire industry of 'pirated' (counterfeit) copies of movies - banning DVD release doesn't mean the movie won't be available on Pirate-bay and other sites. 
And about AK variants- isn't private possession of fully auto rifles banned? Here in Russia it is legally forbidden unconditionally to privately own full-auto capable weapons (full-auto weapons ownership restricted to Russian Army and official law enforcment bodies, however, law does not forbid to own military-style assault rifles after they are modified by licensed gunsmith to permanently restrict them to semi-auto.). --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] 10:39, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

==Thanks for the compliment==

As much as I would like to claim the Barrett as mine the pic was taken last summer at a gun show in Michigan. Rather fascinating bunch out there!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 15:04, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

==RE:lame page makers==
I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't have given him or her a temporary ban, but Jcordell had already deleted Fred the movie prior to me deleting it a second time. I had to temporary ban another user because he keep making a season 1 page for Starsky and Hutch, even after Ben and I already told him not to. Maybe they'll get the message. How's work going?--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Removed Guns==

I seriously apologize for that, as well as any other wrongful edits I may have made (which I sincerely hope was not that many). Only in the Glock and 1911 pages did I actually do any serious removal editing and again, it was done solely because certain sections seemed extraneous at the time, had no listings, and before I myself gave serious consideration to the 'reference/completeness' point. Again, I'm very sorry about that, and any problems that have arisen because of it. I have found out I indeed removed the Glock 20, in addition to numerous other ones. I have since gone back through the edit logs and restored the Glock 20 section, as well as all other entries I removed, I hope that will be alright. I will certainly cease any serious editing of the sort and especially '''removal''' of entries from here on out making sure it is alright, if at all. I could probably take time and restore some other things I've edited, though I think outside of possibly the 1911 page (And most of the entries' thumbnails I reposted on the talk page, and several of them I think were posted by random users and have no listings or links to anything on the site), there shouldn't be any issues. In any event, in the interest of NOT doing any more serious editing, I'll just leave things where they're at unless another problem arises. Of course, please let me know right away if there are any further problems from my past edits and I will help out however I can. Again, I sincerely apologize to you, and the others. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:39, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

:- No problem sir. Frantic, no, but stern I definitely thought so. But that kinda comes with your title I suppose. Besides, I understand perfectly fine - Regardless of how crazy you may seem personally (I'm joking.. I hope :b), you still do an awful lot for the site here and spend a whole lot of your time and effort doing it so I get where you're coming from, and I definitely understand wasted effort, I'm sorry that even happened. As I said, glad I could rectify things to some extent, and I've since given up doing any edits of the sort. I appreciate your understanding. That said, keep up all the good work - I'm especially liking the M16 history page, quite a good read there. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

::- Nah, I'll trudge through he logs myself. It's my doing and I think I might be good at it anyway. :b Though at least this time it was easy, as the post I made in the talk page about removing the guns was still posted and had the date. Anyway, the magic ones are - '''Dan Wesson Panther''', '''Konigsberg M/1914''', '''Taurus PT1911''', and '''Para-Ord P15''' and '''P16'''. Considering how many 1911s that are posted now, that doesn't really sound too impressive.. Bah. Anyway, I kept the thumbnails for the Konigsberg, Taurus and Dan Wesson ones in the Talk page under 'Other Variants', but I can restore all the entries if you really want. I also removed a section for the LAR Grizzly a bit after all that, since it had it's own page already. That's all from me I believe, if there other missing ones, I didn't do it. Hope it helps. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:30, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

== Zombie Wiki ==

MPM2008, I'm pleased to tell that Philodox deleted the images on the Zombie Wiki. By the way, nice to see you uploading gun images again, they're great.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:29, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

== Gunfight at the O.K. Corral ==

Thanks for the compliment. I was surprised it wasn't done as well and I had forgotten that DeForest Kelley was in it. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 05:58, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

==Documentaries==
I've been reading on various pages around the site that documentaries are no longer going to be allowed. I'm sure this was explained on some discussion page but I didn't hear why this new rule was inacted. I'm not contesting it, I was just wondering if you could tell me the reason behind it.
:PS: I just read your rule about people listing their country of origin before you respond to their questions so here goes: I was born to two US Army Helicopter pilot parents on an American military base in Germany, however I have lived in the good old USA since I was six months old-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==Admin action please==
Could you do something about this anon who saw fit to insult me on my talk page? [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Spartan198&diff=prev&oldid=339425] Could you also semi-protect my talk page from anon edits, or tell me how to do so if I'm able to? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:32, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

==re:banning user 125.233.23.5==
I lifted the ban. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:19, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

==RE:Site title business==

Well, I was just making a joke but damn, I didn't even think about that. Guess I'm just another one of those narrow-ass arrogant ignorant and racist Amerikans.. Oh well. Seriously, I always figured 'Internet' was the first part of the title as so many other other sites/pages start out with 'Internet' also - I thought it was kinda common knowledge. Perhaps not. I don't get that second post you showed me, it seemed like an angry rant that went off on a tangent in spots, especially in that last part. Nevermind the fact he contradicts himself with his own statements, he was honestly bitching about the site getting paid of his work? Bah, so what, every wiki does, as well as Google, YouTube, etc etc. Again, that's pretty standard knowledge I thought. As for using American protocol and English language only articles and all that, it's not bigoted, it's practical - The man who owns/runs the RoboCop Archive is Swedish, yet his site is all English. Honestly, that dude just seems to be flipping his anti-American shit. It seems to him that y'all are acting racist for classifying pages as incomplete if they're for foreign films/etc (Never mind the numerous incomplete pages that aren't for foreign media, and/or if they're classified because they're actually incomplete) Bah, the dude has rubbed me the wrong way as you can tell. In the end though, the only answer I got for him is that noone's forcing him to stay, and if he doesn't like the site he can certainly leave. Pretty simple. As for the title, well, I can see now where it's 'for-dummies' inclusion really comes from, though I doubt it'll alleviate remarks like that entirely. Still, good to know, even if it may have gotten me a bit worked up. Anyway, thanks for the bit of light on the issue. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:52, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

==Worthless page to delete==
[[TJ's_Custom_Gunworks_Stealth-1|This one.]] [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:43, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

==RE: Nickel 1911==

That is one beautiful gun! And as you can tell by the enormous number of pages on which I placed the image, we needed a nickel 1911 with pearl grips for a while (everybody keeps using the Auto Ordnance from ''[[Pulp Fiction]]'' as a substitute, which I'd rather they didn't do). As far as other grips, I dunno...maybe ivory grips? I've seen that config in at least one movie page. But it's your call. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:Wood grips would also be good, the gun in [[Sucker Punch (2011)]] is bright nickel with wood grips. While rarely seen on nickel movie guns, black grips like one in [[No Country for Old Men]].--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:33, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

::- I agree, another beautiful addition, along with the newer S&W Model 28. As for other variants, maybe one with the Ivory grips, but I'm not sure. I think there is a satin nickel gun pic with black grips already though. Bah, I don't know. I'll leave that to you guys. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:17, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

==ASP 9==
[[Image:ASP 9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|ASP 9 (Highly customized pistol using a stock Smith & Wesson Model 39 as the starting point) - 9x19mm. This is the screen used firearm from the film ''[[Cobra]]'' ]]
Do you have an idea where this gun was used in the film? Did Stallone use it? I thought he used the 9mm Gold Cup as his pistol throughout the film. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:33, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
::Syd Stembridge provided the guns for the film and he swears that it was a screen used gun, perhaps in Sly's waistband, but I've questioned this on multiple occasions, and I usually don't argue with the armorers who were there :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
:::hmmm... I'll have to watch the film again, Sly most always had the Gold Cup in his waistband. Maybe it was used in a deleted scene?--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:15, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

==What should I do?==
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/FrankPoncherello I already to this user not to build a Season 1 page for Starsky and Hutch, I even temporarily banned him for two weeks. But yet he builds it again for a third time. What should I do? He doesn't seem to listen. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:12, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

:: Lol, I was just about to tell you. I kind feel bad about the comment I made on his page, but then again, maybe not. Anyway, this will be his third strike, I say boot him for good. It's clear he doesn't care and/or doesn't listen. But, I don't know, I just can't even stand stuff like that. Of course I guess I'm one to talk... [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:17, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

:I was going to send you a message like this ''I'm not going give him a temporary ban, but if he builds it again. Then he's gone for good. I figure if I was to temporary ban him again and he may just build the page again because of the ban.'' But had an editing conflict with Stan. So I checked recent changes and the page was up again. He's gone for good.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:33, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Yeah he already made the page, that's why I made the comment about doing it again. Just stupid.. Wait... did I screw up again? :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:43, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

== I, Robot ==

Hi.
I'm just gonna go ahead and ask this (since it seems the page was screencapped and built by you): Can I, with your permission, do a BLU-Ray upgrade on '''I, Robot''' ? You mentioned earlier that it doesn't need any more DVD caps, but I went and got a copy of the BLU-Ray. Also, it could use that clean-up mentioned on the '''I, Robot''' talk page... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 18:30, 17 October 2010 (UTC) (Age: 18, Country: Finland (altough I have been experiencing americanization, heh :))
::Thank you Master, you won't regret it. BTW, the page looks awesome now, after your clean up --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 11:09, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

==I, Robot Number Two==
- Yeah, it was pretty jacked up, hence why I said something. But, it's already much better now, good job so far. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:15, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

==New picture Ass-kissing==

Well, I'm not doing much to shorten your already absurdly large talk page am I? Heh, anyway, figured I'd give you some more thanks for the new images - The Remington 700P(SPS) is very sleek. The two-tone SIG P229 is very nice, too. But especially the Smith Model 15. That is very nice, glad to have one with the target grips. I'm gonna add it immediately to the original Halloween page, as it's pretty much the exact representation of the Smith that Donald Pleasence carried there. Thanks again, very nice. I wonder what we'll see next! :D [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 21:36, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

==Stevens 67==
Shouldn't the page be titled Stevens Model 67? Great image too.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:11, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

:I would keep the image, maybe re-upload it as a Savage/Springfield? I would still use it as a place holder for the Stevens. What's the deal with Savage/Springfield vs Savage/Stevens? I'm not an expert on those guns. But I do like knowing the difference between pump shotguns. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:39, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

== Behold A Pale Horse ==
thanks for the fix to the page's format. I'me currently using my parent's computer. Took the kids over for the weekend and their computer is driving me nuts. The only reason why i even decided to build a page is that I'm bored out of my mind. Hard to believe that I grew up here. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

:Oh Jeez you have access to the [[Savage 99]] that [[Ken Foree]] uses in DOTD 78? Oh boy I'm looking forward to that one. Don't forget to put it on the DOTD 78 page. I once read on another firearms forum where somebody half-seriously said that Savage should make a Ken Foree/Dawn of Dead Commemorative Savage 99. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:58, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

== Beretta 92FS page==

On the Beretta 92FS page there was a conversation about how user S&W Shooter hated the 92. Myself and others were correcting him on his lack of knowledge of the 92. I hve just noticed that, without request of permission or approval, user Predator20 deleted the ENTIRE conversation.. Just wanted to let you know. -- [[PunisherDave]]

Talk:Beretta 92 pistol series

2010-10-24T12:16:21Z

PunisherDave: /* I hate this pistol */

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:SwordCutlass9mm.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Airsoft Replica of Revy's Beretta 92FS Inox "9mm Sword Cutlass" in the anime ''[[Black Lagoon]]'']]
[[Image:DH3-Beretta92FS.jpg|thumb|350px|none|A Beretta 92FS 9x19mm configured for left-handed firing. This is one of the actual Berettas (Four identical guns were used on set) used by [[Bruce Willis]] in the film ''[[Die Hard with a Vengeance]]'' ]]
[[Image:Bruni928mm.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Bruni Model Beretta 92FS blank firing stage prop - 8mm blank.]]

==Correction==
The Boondock Saints characters David Della Rocco and the McManus brothers were incorrectly listed as users of the Beretta 92FS. In the movie, the actual pistols used were the Taurus PT92 with optional suppressors. The Taurus markings are visible in the Carlo Yakavetta execution scene at the end of the movie and was also confirmed by the armorer for the movie and director Troy Duffy.
:Well your correction was wrong. Have you even looked at the page? Here is a screencap. That's definitely a Beretta, it sometimes switches to a PT92 in certain scenes. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 14:08, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:BSBeretta92FS-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be."]]

==Curious Question==
The Beretta Centurion, is it simply a 92FS with a shortened barrel? Or is there something else I'm missing?

It's essentially got the Compact's barrel and slide, the normal sized frame, and a slightly shorter dust cover that doesn't really fit into either other category. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 10:37, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

==Just a reminder==

When you talk about the Beretta 92F or 92FS, it is not spelled "M92F" (as this page is titled), "M92FS", or even "92 FS" with a space in between the "92" and "FS". It's just Beretta 92F or Beretta 92FS, exactly as I have just spelled it. If you see a page with the older (mis)spelling, please do not hesitate to correct it.

And considering that this page has grown to include all of the 92 variants (including the SB, Brigadier, Centurion, etc.), it might be time to rename it. I would recommend re-titling the page "Beretta 92-series pistols". Anyone else agree? [[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==...==

Why not have more info on the 93R? Give it its own page?

I propose the following info 9 (and an image if possible; how do I place/upload images here anyway?)

----

The '''[[Beretta 93R]]''' (full name: '''Beretta Model 93R''') is a selective-fire [[9mm]] machine pistol. The "R" stands for "Raffica" which means burst in Italian. It was designed in the 70s and meant for police and military use, offering extra firepower in a small package. It is perfect for concealed carry purposes such as VIP protection, or for close quarters fighting such as room-to-room searches.

A selector switch and the foldable foregrip allows the pistol to fire three round bursts with each pull of the trigger for a potential cyclic rate of 1100 rpm. The designers limited it to three round bursts to allow it to be more easily controlled. The 93R is basically a Beretta 92 series pistol (the Beretta [[92FS]] is designated '''"[[M9 Pistol]] M9"''' by the US military, and is the standard issue pistol for the US military). But the 93R is single action and outfitted with a muzzle brake, an optional detachable shoulder stock and a 20-round magazine that also allowed for a firmer grip. It is currently out of production.

The gun has been used in several movies:

* [[Face/Off]] a 1997 action movie starring John Travolta and Nicolas Cage and directed by John Woo.

* [[Equilibrium]] a 2002 action/science fiction film written and directed by Kurt Wimmer with Christian Bale, Taye Diggs, Christian Kahrmann, Emily Watson and Sean Bean.

==Title change==
I hope no one minds that I changed the page name, "pistol series" matches more of the titles on other pages and is easier to remember than "Series Pistols". Agreed? -GM

==Why separate INOX?==
I was just wondering if there were any technical differences between the 92FS and the INOX, other than the slide being stainless.

:Good question. Only because there are so many movies featuring the 92F Inox that if we didn't separate it from the regular 92F, we'd have to put notes about "Inox finish" in parentheses near each. Whereas most of the other Berettas with Inox finishes don't appear in nearly as many movies. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

What happened to the other Inox pic that was posted a few days ago? Could you send it to me, please? - [[User:Taurus96]]

==I hate this pistol==
: I wish this gun wasn't used in Die Hard, just because it is unworthy of all the popularity it has gained because of it. This gun is like a supermodel- it's just skating by on its looks but is horrible in reality-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::But alot of supermodels are hot!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: They're also fucktarded-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Jesus Christ Smith. You hate everything. Tell me, what YOU don't hate?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:: S&W, Browning, FN, Walther, Mauser and all the shit on my page-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:09, 26 June 2009
(UTC)
:::I hoped you would say Vests but i'm left dissapointed. But well, at least you like FN FALs.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Vests?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:22, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::You never played Left 4 Dead didn't you?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:22, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:My computer sucks and all my $ is going towards an L1A1-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Well, in Left 4 Dead, there is an character called Francis who is a Biker. And he hates everything. Then another guy comes up to him and asks something like, "Francis, what don't you hate?" and Francis goes, "Well, i don't hate vests.". That's you Smith. You are Francis. Because you hate everything.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: Bitchin'. I like jackets better though-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Jackets are always better than vests.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:43, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: The sleeves prevent zombies from biting chunks out of your arms-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Let's not derail this discussion, shall we? Let's keep talking about why or why not the M92 doesn't suck ass from an straw. Ok?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: Because it's finicky and breaks easily-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:56, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Um, I'm not sure why you hate the 92F so much, especially since you claim to like Beretta's other pistols. I have quite a bit of experience with the 92F and the Taurus PT92 (which I used to own) and I think it's an excellent pistol. Also, the 92F's appearance in movies isn't just due to its looks - as we've discussed in the forum, armorers like the 92F because it's one of the easiest pistols to convert to blank-fire. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
:Because it an ammo picky, fragile sonuvabitch is why-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Technically, so are Glocks. No reloads, no unjacketed cartridges etc. --[[User:Phil|Phil]] 01:30, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

:::I've run into few pistols that ''aren't'' at least somewhat ammo picky. My S&W 4506 is extremely unreliable with our own reloads (to be fair, my Dad and I weren't really sure how to make good ones for a while) and with most other types of factory-reloaded ammo we've run through it. My Taurus PT92, in comparison, was actually far less prone to stovepiping with reloaded ammo. Also, if you like Walther, what do you think of just about every gun that they've made since the PP series? Based on my own experience, Walther has basically sucked for the last 50-something years. Even the later-generation PPKs are crap compared to the earlier models. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
:My P22 jams all the damn time, so I know exactly what your talking about-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:59, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I still don't understand why you hate the 92 models, Smith. I've read your page, and yet it doesn't seem logical to me. I mean, all the Beretta 92 variants, and the Taurus PT92 that my uncle owns, were very good pistols. The open ejection port keeps it from jamming most of the time, and it's actually very accurate. I mean, the locking block is specifically designed to be accurate, and it does a great job. If you dislike it simply because of the 9x19mm bullets, then remember, it also comes in .40 S&W (technically, that's the 96 series, but it's still the same design). Personally, 9x19mm is perfect, unless you're trying to take down some sort of large, dangerous animal, or a man doped up on painkillers. It has barely noticeable recoil, which only increases the accuracy of the gun. While it may not have the stopping power of a .45 or other larger calibers, it doesn't really need it. In most scenarios, a double tap to the chest and then a shot to the head, just to be sure, is all that's needed. I could understand if you didn't like it simply because it's a very popular gun in movies, but disliking it because you claim that it's inaccurate and that it jams easily just isn't logical, seeing as it is in fact accurate and not at all prone to jamming. If you want an inaccurate pistol, try the M1911. And as to the gun being very easy to break, you shouldn't take your facts from S.T.A.L.K.E.R: Shadow of Chernobyl.

Also, on a completely unrelated note, Smith, have you read any Ayn Rand, such as Atlas Shrugged?[[User:Acora|Acora]] 11:03, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I dont think 9mms are so bad. I'm Australian and we use a 9mm Browning hi power, which is a very compotent military gun. I dont like the m9's reliability, though. [[User:Mcguinness]]

I've been very doubtful of 9mm ever since the US Army ditched the M1911A1 for the M9, but after owning one myself, I have to say it's an nice-looking pistol, but it's not as good as everyone says it is. I still can't believe the US Armed Forces replaced the M1911A1 for this piece of junk. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 17:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I think that you should spend more time on actual gun forums. THAT is where you can get reliable info from. There is nothing about the 92's reliability being less than standard. You in a sense remind me of HK fanboys, Their brand is best and all others suck yet they don't even know why or understand why. My Dad's 92 hasn't broken anything or jammed yet for over the year and a half hes had it. The reason why its so damn common in movies is because its easy to convert, and also, ITS RELIABILITY! Your going BASELESS OPINIONS. You say the Springfield XD is just a Glock copy yet its not. You are going by the fact that its has a slightly similar appearence and its a poly pistol. The only Glock copy there is, is guess what? SMITH AND WESSON SIGMA! *GASP*
By the way the Walther P22 isn't made by walther, its made by the company that owns walther, Umarex, which owns walther so they can put the walther name on it. My Hi Power actually broke the firing pin retaining plate in half without many rounds through it at all, I bought it like new from a friend that barely ever shot it in the years he owned it.
Till you get your facts straight, stop spewing incorrect crap.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:38, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I know I'm late, but I just read this heading and HAD to jump in. I recently purchased a new (not my first) Beretta 92FS. I've had a lot of experience with the 92 series and Taurus PT92 series, and they aren't ANYTHING like S&W is talking about. My 92's shoot anything, they have never jammed, they are NOT inaccurate (well, unless a 1 inch spread at 30 yards is inaccurate.) It seems to me that S&W isn't talking out of experience, but more likely out of his @$$. Oh, and as for the 9x19mm... That round has been used for a long time, and was in use BEFORE .45 ACP. With Hollowpoints, the 9mm has more "stopping power", and with Full Metal Jacket, it has more penetration. OH, and higher capacity all around. --[[PunisherDave]]

== Movie pistol ==

Personally, I've never fired this gun in my life, so I can't comment on it's performance (although I'm guessing its at the very least a decent gun: why else would the military use it?). But it seems like 90% of all movies today (at least movies with directors that don't know much about guns) always features a Beretta 92FS, especially used by cops (excluding movies featuring the LAPD because that's what they really use). The point I'm trying to make is that ever since it became famous from ''Lethal Weapon'' and ''Die Hard'', the Beretta has become the default Hollywood movie pistol. If ever a Hollywood movie needs some random gun, and they don't know anything about guns, they seem to always use a Beretta, whether its used by some extra or by the main character. Just thought I'd express my thoughts. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

:''It's recognizable. That's it. The Beretta 92FS is to movies today what Colt Single Action Army pistols and the like were to the westerns of the 50's and 60's, and the Thompson was and is to pretty much every gangster-oriented movie ever made.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 03:47, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

::The appearance is a big part of it, but less so nowadays, because the 92F is an aging design and doesn't have quite the same sexiness that it did in the 1980s and 90s. The 92F is the "default" Hollywood 9mm pistol because it has a reputation for being one of the most reliable guns when converted to blank-fire. The open-top slide and barrel assembly requires much less effort to convert to blank-fire than most other short-recoil semi-auto pistols, because there is no lock-up to remove. So propmasters and armorers continue to use them heavily because of their reputation as a good blank gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Well that would certainly explain it. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 04:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

::::I would like to complement the contributors to this section for a far more insightful discussion than the one above.
:It's more insightful because the one above is biased and full of opinion-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 19:14, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

::Thank you. I appreciate that. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 01:21, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
:At least I admit it when I get carried away-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:34, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

:In regards to the comment about random police officers seen using this weapon, I agree fully with the position that the weapon is overused and out of place when it comes to many characters in law enforcement. I find it especially egregious when the weapon is seen in the hands of NYPD officers (such as in the entire Spider Man series) and FBI agents, both of whom to my knowledge never used this pistol in large numbers. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

::Seeing the Beretta in ''Spiderman'' was really annoying. It wasn't like in ''Lethal Weapon'' where it was synonomous with the main character, it was just used by some extras as the fallback choice of firearm. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 04:22, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

:::Unfortunately, in the movie industry, simplicity often comes before realism. It would be great if the Glock had been used in Spiderman, since it's the standard issue firearm for the NYPD, and if armorers would do some research and have any police officers in their films using the correct on-duty sidearms for their department, but unfortunately, the Beretta is easy to convert, and therefore is used more often, even when it wouldn't be realistic for the character to have it.

:::: ''if armorers would do some research and have any police officers in their films using the correct on-duty sidearms for their department''

::::If you ever said this to any of the armorers who are IMFDB members, they'd tear you a new one. Most armorers ''know'' that the NYPD doesn't issue Beretta 92Fs; they probably wouldn't qualify to become armorers if they didn't know something like that off the top of their head. It's the ''director'' who gets final call on the guns. Plenty of the armorers here will tell you that they've been forced by directors to put certain guns in movies or TV shows, even though they know that the gun in question would never be used by the character in real life. They have no creative control over the guns used; their job is safety, gun maintenance, and (sometimes) training the actors to use the weapons. Everything else is up to the director, or someone else who's far higher-up. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==Die Hard and Lethal Weapon==
I've looked at a few of the Die Hard and Lethal Weapon pages, and there seems to be some confusion about which of the two Berettas on this site was used in each film. So, for future reference: which Berettas were used in the Die Hard films and the Lethal Weapon films? I'll put them up. Thanks. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 02:10, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:BerettaM92FS-DieHard2-4.jpg‎ |thumb|350px|none|]]
[[Image:BerettaM92FS DH1&LW1.jpg‎|thumb|350px|none|]]

:What the Beretta page says is pretty much accurate. The first gun was used in both the first ''[[Die Hard]]'' and ''[[Lethal Weapon]]''. See how it has a custom extended slide release (due to Willis being a leftie)? In ''[[Die Hard]]'', there are plenty of scenes where it's possible to see that same extension on the slide release (most notably, during the scene where McClane is about to wander through the shattered glass). The second gun was used in the other three ''Die Hard'' movies and ''[[Demoliton Man]]''.

:Also, I don't know why people keep putting the ''[[Die Hard]]'' Beretta on other pages for movies which didn't feature that '''particular''' gun. It should only be used for pages on movies in which it's actually appeared, no more. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Ok, so the first one was in the first ''Die Hard'' and the first ''Lethal Weapon'', while the second was used in the other three ''Die Hard''s. Was the second also used in the other ''Lethal Weapons''?

::It's interesting how the ''Lethal Weapon'' pistol was the same one from ''Die Hard''. Obviously it was modified for Bruce Willis to use, but didn't ''Lethal Weapon'' come out a year prior to ''Die Hard''?

::As far as using the ''Die Hard'' image goes, I think people are doing that to pages that have the Beretta 92F and not the 92FS. This is probably because the Beretta 92F from ''Die Hard'' is the only image of a Beretta 92F on this site. Thanks for your help, MT. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 05:00, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

:::Also, the Beretta used in the first Lethal Weapon was different from in the subsequent films because it had a gold Beretta logo on the grips instead of the black one that matches the grips on the Berettas shown here. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:05, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

::::''the second was used in the other three ''Die Hard''s. Was the second also used in the other ''Lethal Weapons''?''

::::I'm not really sure. When MoviePropMaster took the pictures of these guns, he said he may have got confused what movies they appeared in. But here is a picture of the second Beretta (and its "stunt double") in their display case at Stembridge & Cinema Weaponry:

::::[[Image:DisplayCase01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

::::You can see that the label next to the gun only mentions ''Die Hard II'' and ''Demolition Man'' as its movie appearances. But MPM '''did''' say he was specifically told that they also brought this Beretta out of "retirement" from the glass case so that it could have a cameo appearance in ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' (as we mentioned on the page for that movie). I'm not sure if it was in ''[[Die Hard with a Vengeance]]'', but that strikes me as unlikely because that movie was filmed in New York and a different armory supplied the weapons for it. I'm also not sure if it was in any of the other ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' movies or not. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::::''As far as using the Die Hard image goes, I think people are doing that to pages that have the Beretta 92F and not the 92FS. This is probably because the Beretta 92F from Die Hard is the only image of a Beretta 92F on this site.''

::::Hmmm, to me, that's kind of stupid because there is so little difference between the 92F and 92FS. Not to mention that it's rather hard to be sure when one or the other is being used (the 92FS replaced the 92F in production very quickly, after all). But I would prefer that the ''[[Die Hard]]''/''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' Beretta only be used on pages for movies in which it actually appears. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::::I think they do this to movies that featured the Beretta that were made in the 80s. If I'm not mistaken, the Beretta 92FS came out in 1990, so they probably think it would be inaccurate to post a picture of the 92FS when the movie obviously used a 92F. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 23:47, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

::::::Well that's all a moot point. I Just uploaded two shots of early Beretta 92Fs which can be used generically as opposed to the hero movie guns. Thank you thank you thank you, just leave a tip in the jar........ [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:34, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

MPM2008, you deserve a cookie. I have replaced the 92FS image and the Die Hard 92F in a few 80's films. But what is the best year to stop using the 92F? Lethal Weapon 2 came out in '89 and Die Hard 2 '90, they both feature the 92FS. Anything prior to '88? -[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:16, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
:The 92FS actually came out in either late 1988/early 1989, so these guns were purchased IMMEDIATELY and used right away, which is rare unless it's a hot and 'hip/trendy' gun like the 92. Prior to 1989 there ARE no 92FS guns. PRior to 1983 there are no 92F guns (The ones in 1983 were actually 92SB-F guns which were the same weapon. There is NO stop use date for the 92F or even the 92S/92SB guns. As you've seen people still grab them from inventory as recently as now in films. Just because the Walther P38 technically stopped production at the end of WW2 (Walther's post war versions were actually named differently) we still see the P38 in films for the past 65 years. So in essence we're just taking a wild guess. The only things we can be sure of is when they are NOT being used (i.e. the year of production is too early for the model to have been sold). But any gun of any age can be used at any time. When in doubt and it looks the same, opt for the 92FS from 1990 on unless you can get a really good look at the shiny grips, then it's a 92F. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:42, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Awesome work on the new Beretta 92F pictures, MPM2008, they look great!--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 20:12, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

I get what you mean about the 92F still being used today. But like you said unless you can really see the shiny grips or have a really great shot of the slide. You pretty much have to go when the film was made. I haven't handled that many Beretta's I didn't even notice the grips being different F shiny vs FS flat.
Here is a pic of my 92F. While the grips look flat, they're shiny it is just my crappy photo skills.
[[Image:PRE20-BER92F.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Also wouldn't a history timeline of the changes on the 92 be a good thing for the page? -[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:02, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

==TEST==

original list
* [[Will Smith]] as Lt. Col. Dr. Robert Neville in ''[[I Am Legend]]''

* [[Mykelti Williamson]] as Sgt. Drucker in ''[[Heat]]''

* [[Liam Neeson]] as Bryan Mills in ''[[Taken]]''

* Undercover Officers in ''[[La Haine]]''

* [[Richard Grieco]] as Michael Corben(Promotional shots) and Pierre in ''[[Teen Agent]]''

* Assassins in ''[[16 Blocks]]'' (fitted with suppressors)

* [[Jason Bose Smith]] as Little Henry, a carjacker, and LAPD officers in ''[[American History X]]''

* U.S. Army Rangers in ''[[Black Hawk Down]]''

* [[Sean Patrick Flanery]] as Connor MacManus, [[Norman Reedus]] as Murphy MacManus, and [[David Della Rocco]] as Rocco ("the Funny Man") in ''[[The Boondock Saints]]''

* [[Matt Damon]] as Jason Bourne in ''[[The Bourne Supremacy]]''

* [[Matt Damon]] as Jason Bourne in ''[[The Bourne Ultimatum]]''

* [[Diego Sandoval]] as ''Empty Gun Man'' in ''[[Desperado]]'' (fitted with suppressor)

* [[Bruce Willis]] as Lt. John McClane in the ''[[Die Hard]]'' series

* An L.A.P.D. SWAT officer, [[Alan Rickman]] as Hans Gruber, and [[Alexander Godunov]] as Karl in ''[[Die Hard]]''

* [[Nicolas Cage]] as Castor Troy and [[Dominique Swain]] as Jamie Archer in ''[[Face/Off]]''

* [[Sylvester Stallone]] as Jack Carter in ''[[Get Carter (2001)|Get Carter]]''

* [[Chow Yun-Fat]] as Tequila Yuen and [[Tony Leung]] as Alan in ''[[Hard Boiled]]''

* [[Chow Yun-Fat]] as Mark Gor, [[Ti Lung]] as Sung Tse Ho, [[Waise Lee]] as Shing, [[Leslie Cheung]] as Sung Tse Kit, and Triad gang members in ''[[A Better Tomorrow]]''

* [[Chow Yun-Fat]] as Ken Gor, [[Ti Lung]] as Sung Tse Ho, [[Leslie Cheung]] as Sung Tse Kit, [[Dean Shek]] as Lung Si, [[Fui-On Shing]] as Ko's Right Hand Man, [[Ming Yan Lung]] as Chong, [[Shan Kwan]] as Ko Ying Pui, and others in ''[[A Better Tomorrow II]]''

* [[Chow Yun-Fat]] as Ah Jong in ''[[The Killer]]''

* [[Chow Yun-Fat]] as John Lee in ''[[The Replacement Killers]]''

* [[Chow Yun-Fat]] as Detective Nick Chen in ''[[The Corruptor]]''

* L.A.P.D. officers in ''[[Heat]]''

* [[Josh Hartnett]] as Detective K.C. Calden in ''[[Hollywood Homicide]]''

* [[Kim Bodnia]] as Harald in ''[[In China They Eat Dogs]]''

* [[Adam Baldwin]] as Major Mitchell, U.S. military and Secret Service personnel in ''[[Independence Day]]''

* U.S. Marines in ''[[Jarhead]]''

* [[Mel Gibson]] as Detective Martin Riggs in the ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' series ''(fitted with a laser sight in [[Lethal Weapon 4]])''

* L.A.P.D. officers and [[Rene Russo]] as Sergeant Lorna Cole in ''[[Lethal Weapon 3]]''

* [[Jean Reno]] as Leon in ''[[Leon (The Professional)]]''(Customized with Compensators and Silencers)

* [[Jared Leto]] as Vitaly Orlov in ''[[Lord of War]]''

* [[Vin Diesel]] as DEA Agent Sean Vetter and [[Larenz Tate]] as DEA Agent Demetrius Hicks in ''[[A Man Apart]]''

* [[Keanu Reeves]] as Neo in ''[[The Matrix]]'' and in ''[[The Matrix Revolutions]]''

* FBI Agents and [[Jackie Chan]] as Chief Inspector Lee in ''[[Rush Hour]]''

* [[Dennis Quaid]] as Guy and [[Stellan Skarsgard]] as Peter Dominic in ''[[Savior]]''

* U.S. Army soldiers in ''[[The Siege]]''

* N.Y.P.D. officers in ''[[Spider-Man]]''

* L.A.P.D. patrol officers and one of Montel's cronies in ''[[S.W.A.T.]]'' ''(the latter being fitted with a silencer)''

* [[Robert Patrick]] as the T-1000 in ''[[Terminator 2: Judgement Day]]''

* [[Kristanna Loken]] as the T-X in ''[[Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines]]''

* U.S. Army soldiers in ''[[Three Kings]]''

* [[Ethan Hawke]] as Officer Jake Hoyt in ''[[Training Day]]''

* [[Kate Beckinsale]] as Selene in ''[[Underworld]]'' (fitted with compensators and modified to fire full auto)

* L.A.P.D. officers in ''[[Volcano]]''

* N.S.A. agent posing as a robber at the 'diner' in ''[[xXx]]''

* N.Y.P.D. officers in ''[[X-Men]]''

* [[Lou Diamond Phillips]] as Cisco in ''[[The Big Hit]]''

* U.S. Navy S.E.A.L.S., [[Sean Connery]] as John Patrick Mason, and [[Nicolas Cage]] as FBI Agent Stanley Goodspeed in ''[[The Rock]]'' (Connery and Cage using one fitted with a tactical flashlight)

* U.S. Army soldiers in ''[[Lions for Lambs]]''

* [[Mark Wahlberg]] as Bob Lee Swagger in ''[[Shooter]]''

* [[Sylvester Stallone]] as John Spartan in ''[[Demolition Man]]''

* [[Jet Li]] as Gabriel Law in ''[[The One]]''.

* [[Steven Seagal]] as Nico Toscani in ''[[Above the Law]]''

* Police in ''[[Vantage Point]]''

* [[Steve Carell]] as Agent 86 in ''[[Get Smart]]''

* [[Scott Caan]] as Jones in ''[[Enemy of the State]]''

* Japanese soldiers in ''[[Battle Royale II: Requiem]]''

* [[Martin Lawrence]] as Miles Logan in''[[Blue Streak]]''

* [[Elizabeth Banks]] as Starla Grant in ''[[Slither]]''

* Shinji Mimura in [[Battle Royale|Battle Royale(Film)]]

* [[Tom Cruise]] as Ethan Hunt in ''[[Mission: Impossible 3]]''

* U.S. Marines in ''[[Behind Enemy Lines]]''

* Rookie Kincaid in ''[[Ghosts of Mars]]''

* [[Clive Owen]] as Louis Salinger in [[The International]]

* Minneapolis P.D. officers in ''[[Jingle All the Way]]''

* ''[[The Day the Earth Stood Still]]'' (2008)

* Omar in ''[[Traitor]]''

* Mace in ''[[Strange Days]]''

* An assassin in ''[[The Sentinel]]'', fitted with a suppressor.

* Detectives Curtis and Anderson in ''[[Unknown]]''

* Truck driver in ''[[Dreamcatcher]]''

* L.A.P.D. officers in ''[[Dragon Wars: D-War]]''

* [[Andy Whitfield]] as Gabriel in ''[[Gabriel]]'' (dual-wielded with silencers)

* The corrupt police officers hired by Dominic Greene in ''[[Quantum of Solace]]''

* Kansas City Police officers and detectives in ''[[Mad Money]]''

* [[Jason Statham]] as Chev Chelios, [[Art Hsu]] as Johnny Vang, and LAPD officers in ''[[Crank: High Voltage]]''

* A member of the french national police in ''[[MR 73]]''

* U.S. Army soldiers in ''[[Courage Under Fire]]''

* [[Esai Morales]] as Staff Sergeant Stern in ''[[In the Army Now]]''

* [[Ed Harris]] as Sheriff Pangborn in ''[[Needful Things]]''

* [[Ed Harris]] as Frankie in ''[[State of Grace]]''

* [[Tengiz Borisoff]] as Josip Barada in ''[[Red Heat]]''

* [[Sue Price]] as Alex Sinclair in ''[[Nemesis 2: Nebula]], [[Nemesis III: Prey Harder]] and [[Nemesis 4: Death Angel]]''

* [[Barry Pepper]] as Mike Norton in ''[[Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada, The]]''

* [[Ben Kingsley]] as Frank Falenczyk in ''[[You Kill Me]]

* [[Viktor Sukhorukov]] as Victor Bagrov in [[Brother 2#Beretta 92FS|Brother 2]]

* American cops in [[Brother 2#Police weapon on Viktor's detention|Brother 2]]

* [[Ben Kingsley]] as Xavier Fitch and [[Michael Madsen]] as Preston Lennox in ''[[Species]]''

* [[Larry B. Scott]] as Sgt. Charles Biddle in ''[[ Extreme Prejudice]]'' (1987)

* FBI Agents in ''[[In the Line of Duty: The FBI Murders]]'' (continuity error)

==Distinction==
What exactly is the distinction between the Beretta 92F and the 92FS?
:The FS models have a slide retention device on the frame. Here is a pic showing the slide differences. The FS on top, F on the bottom. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:03, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Slide.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

== Variantons we don't have ==

We are lacking:

Beretta 92A1: 17 round mag, and a Picattiny-Similar rail under the barrel

Beretta 96A1: Same as above but is chambered in .40 S&W and haves a 12 round mag

Beretta 92FS type M9A1: Basically a civilian M9A1 --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 01:30, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

:Unless those weapons have appeared in any movies or TV shows, I'm not sure we need them on this page. Our goal is to document what appears in movies, not to make a comprehensive list of every variant that Beretta has ever made. As a general guideline, we don't add variants/pictures to a page if we have no evidence that they've appeared in any media. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:54, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:17, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

== Custom Grips? ==

I'm in the process of customizing my Beretta, and I've found something that I really like, but I don't know the name of the product. It's the kind of grip in the picture used for the Brigadier Inox, and similarly seen in this image here: http://lh4.ggpht.com/_fP72_yZL4Yk/Sseqpb4zlsI/AAAAAAAAAZQ/1IvokqYHl30/s800/DSC_1636.jpg though I'm not sure they're the same brand of grips. Either way, though, does anyone know a company that sells grips like these for the 92FS? Hopefully at a relatively low price? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:05, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Those look like Hogue grips. They are pretty common. Fairly inexpensive too. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 08:56, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Could be better ==

I just personally think "why would they not do that?" Like getting rid of the rounded trigger guard, or not giving it a M1911A1 style safety. Not to mention they could add about half of an inch to the barrel. I have never been able to find someone who would customize my old 92F, half the time the telling after I told them what I wanted, they would say, "It can't be done." Of course, being I'm stubborn as hell, I kept looking until I just gave up. Are these custom features too much or just can't happen except in my dreams? - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 05:58, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
:If you want the "M1911A1 style safety" wouldn't you be better off with an original 92 that has the frame mounted safety versus the slide mounted safety of all the later variants. The trigger guard could probably be reshaped, no problem. But not sure if the alloy frame would cause problems. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Or just get a Taurus, they are good guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:12, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

== Could someone explain this to me? ==

What is the benefit of purchasing a Brigadier over a typical 92fs? I have been attempting to research it, and can find no definitive answer.
:Stronger slide. The Brigadier slide is beefed up where the 92fs slide weak point is, at the the locking block area. That's the most common area for them to crack at.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:12, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Beretta 92FS INOX - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:BrigadierInox.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Beretta 92FS Brigadier Inox 9x19mm.]]

Thank you!

==Beretta 92SB vs. Beretta 92FS==
Aside from the shape of the trigger gaurd, what are the differences between the Beretta 92SB and the Beretta 92FS? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
:The SB still had the traditional bluing while the 92F has the Bruniton finish.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:06, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::Could you give more information about the two finnishes? Pros and cons of each, the finnishing process, why they switched?
:::The Bruniton finish has the matte black look, it's supposed to be more durable than bluing as most other finishes are. My 92F is a former police gun, made in '87 I think. While it's got some wear. The Bruniton finish has done its job. The finishing process I have no idea. The finish on the frames looks to me like they stayed the same.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 17:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:PRE20-BER92F.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

==Grey's Anatomy==
In grey's anatomy, season 6 ep 23~24 it looks like the shooter was using either the 92 or the 96 I am not sure which. Can anybody verify? - [[User:teckchris|teckchris]]
:More likely a 92. 9mm pistols work better with blanks than .40s, and since so many blank-firing 92s are available for use, it doesn't seem likely they would use a 96. I saw the episode in question, but can't remember what the bore size looked like. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Talk:Punisher: War Zone

2010-10-19T15:51:57Z

PunisherDave: /* So? M4 or not? */

This is a quote from an interview with the military advisor of the film about how he outfitted Frank

"We used weapons based on need and back-story and nothing made up. All of the Punisher’s weapons currently exist and are being used in modern combat! The Punisher originated out of Vietnam, so his primary weapon in the film is an M-4 which he would feel the most comfortable with. To that I mounted a mini grenade launcher using thermo baric grenades for point detonations. I followed that up with the most powerful revolver on the planet, a Knight’s Armament/Smith&Wesson custom Model 500 .50 cal, in a breakaway leg holster as his back-up!
We created two fully automatic Beretta 92f handguns for close quarter combat.
In the opening of the film he uses ultra reliable H&K custom MP5’s in fully automatic that he carries in the small of his back, and for speed draws a H&K USP compact .45.
I also had a custom mini 13” Bolo machete combat knife created that he carries on a leg holster for hand to hand.
The result was modern weapons used in the modern time, but in full Punisher style!"
:Not a very good advisor, is he? The Smith & Wesson 500 is the most powerful production revolver, certainly not the most powerful on the planet. The .600 Nitro Revolver made by some guy that weighs about 12 pounds is the most powerful. Sounds like he's a little too excited about his decisions. Personally, this movie looks like it will suck, but I'll give it a chance. -GM
::The Pfeifer Zeliska .600 Nitro Express revolver is more powerful but it IS NOT a "production revolver" so sorry to break to you chief and your expertise.. but SW 500 "most powerful production revolver in the world today" so the Military Advisor is right.-D
:::You are aware I'm the one who said it's athe most powerful production revolver right? He said it was the most powerful in the world, but it isn't. I said the Pfeifer Zeliska was, but it isn't a production gun. Read more carefully next time. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
: Actually, in the comics Frank Castle states he hates the M16 and M4 rifles. He also always carries a m1911 and a pump gun in his coat and has a M249 on the backseat of his Hummer.-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::For me, I might not watch this movie really because Thomas Jane isn't in it and it looks like a bad generic action movie. I like how the first one showed how the Punisher really can do things we believe, but the moment I saw the trailer of the Punisher dropping from the ceiling, and spinning around with double MP5Ks...it makes it look like the action style is trying to be John Woo, but even that is over the top. The weapon of choices they give the Punisher movie, in my opinion, doesn't fit for how the Punisher should be. I understand the M4 with the grenade launcher and even the USP as the backup, but apparently, he carries all that in one action sequence. Seems a little too much stuff to carry, but hey, I'll give this movie a chance to JUST because I have to really see it to really critize it. -Ex
:Full auto Beretta Inoxs are very tactically stupid. A S&W 500 is not a back up gun, it's a primary. You don't carry an ankle gun that can down a bear. Personally, I thought the original Punisher comics sucked ass, too "comics" like. Have you ever read a seventies comic? They are terrible. Like a bad '50s safety video. Personally I liked the "Welcome Back, Frank" story which the 2004 film was based on. Thomas Jane was going for the "descent into madness" sort of look like DeNiro in ''[[Taxi Driver]]'', which is an interesting idea (although the punisher should not be a physchopath, that's bad). Castle's attachment to 1911s was one of my favorite elements of the story. And my LEAST favorite part of the old comics was the costume. The new story made it a sweet T-shirt, this one brings out the lame ass tights. I just don't have much faith in it. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Are they INOXs or 92FS? I tried to distinguish what I thought was right on the page, but why would they switch Beretta models like that?-UW

:I want to know who this military adviser for the film is and tell him that most of his suggestions for a modern day Punisher arsenal is very stupid. Except the M4 with the GL. The S&W 500 and auto Berettas dual wielding and dual wielding MP5ks while spinning from a chandelier is very stupid and he's watched too many John Woo movies and even John Woo never had his actors spin around a chandelier like that... [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls. I can't say I agree with her vision, but I enjoyed the film for its action and cheesy performances. The 04 version was a serious film that was marred by a lot of stupid stuff and a lack of action. The 08 version was a campy attempt that didn't even try to be serious but had the brutality that the 04 movie lacked. It's sad that a film hasn't yet been made that's done the Punisher justice. I don't know how to post pictures, but put Punisher revolver into a search engine and it will bring up the sweet Knight's Armament custom piece that was made for the final fight, no matter how impractical it may be. A lot of stuff in War Zone was done simply for the sake of theatrics. -- ZG

:::''(I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls.)''
:::Well said, and not to burst anyone else's bubble but the ARMORER or Military Advisor doesn't make the final call on weapons ... EVER. It's the director. Period. I've had to bite my tongue several times (as the other armorers here can attest as well) when a Director picks a weapon that I would not have. But it's their decision to make. So stop blaming the advisors or armorers, when it's probably the director you need to yell at. Just a note! :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

: ''The Punisher '04 was plenty bloody and brutal, better constructed and better acted. Tom Jane's Frank Castle, quite frankly, would stomp mudholes right into the Jason Voorhees wannabe that Ray Stevenson either chose to portray or HAD to portray. And frankly, no amount of theatrics can act as an excuse for the absolute tripe that went down in this movie. Seemed like the man was holstering and drawing his pistols every other kill; I'm sorry, isn't he supposed to be former frickin' Special Forces? And for all of the whole "We're more faithful to the comics" crap, I'm not seeing it. I can't remember a single one of the MAX comics being as horrible as this movie ended up being. Total dreck. And I've got a few choice words for the military advisor on the movie, but I'm afraid that they're not suitable for even this little corner of the Internet.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

The theatrics, I think, were just another one of the films downfalls. I agree the 04 version was better acted. As for the construction of the films...eh, I've got too many thoughts to list. I'm glad you liked the 04 movie. The fact that both films have so many fans AND detractors just means there's so much territory still to cover, though I think the fans have been part of what tears these movies apart. I'm much more lenient on the film because I have no definitive view of the Punisher and I really have no particular need for material to come directly from the comics. I think we need to step away from the comics and focus on what makes a good movie, instead. Though I was just thinking earlier that War Zone was so goofy and flamboyant, if they were going to drop the Punisher into the Marvel Universe with the likes of Spiderman and Iron Man, this would pretty much be the Punisher I would expect them to use.
:^Do we have comments from a film maker here? Please comment more. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==They destroyed [[The Punisher]]==

The advisor said that the guns are full punisher style! Bullshit! they ruined the whole thing like the dropping from the ceiling with to SMGs part. And the real punisher doesn't use extremely modern looking weapons and dress up like that! This movie might have lots of action and all that but the style of the punisher is gone. The 1911s are a trademark of Frank Castle, so to Lionsgate, bring Thomas Jane back or the next Punisher suffers!-GunnutHk

:Thomas Jane was completely onboard for the second Punisher movie, but when the producers took too long getting a script up and changing actors, he decided to drop out. I think this movie would have been better if Thomas Jane was in it. And speaking of the 1911, we do see in the movie the Punisher taking a 1911, disasemebling it and cleaning it, but never use it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

:Agreed, Thomas Jane's take on Castle was far superior to Ray Stevenson's (no diss to Ray, though, as he's one of my favorite actors). And I also agree that the weapon selections (save for the M4A1, the SL8, and the MP5Ks) sucked. They should have given him 1911s instead of Beretta 92s or that 500 and put an M203 on the M4 instead of that AGX. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi everybody i was just wonering wher did he keep his usp compact?

the Punisher seems like a Vigilante slowly going down hill then a action hero rex095

Better than the Thomas Jane one there reason is Castle has no super powers but he has one that could be a super power his incredible pain tolerance he just doesn't care about pain he is a pure killing machine no regrets whatsoever and that's why this movie nailed it, Jane was a pussy with his t shirt and getting beaten all the time in this movie even though he got the shit kicked out of him by Jigsaws brother he didn't even flinch he didn't hesitate to kill micro cause that was what he had to do Punisher doesn't care about life if it can't be saved he wont try

:The Jane Punisher getting the shit kicked out of him by the Russian was straight out of the comics and very faithful to how it played on film. The fight with LBJ was frankly anemic, and boring. Also, if he doesn't care about a life that he knows can not be saved, then why the hell did he tell the ex-gangbanger who was missing limbs and had an axe in his chest not to die on him? That is a very un-Punisher thing to say.

:And that one shot in the 2004 film of Jane shooting a thug lying wounded on the ground without given him any notice or care, says a lot more about the character than killing 50 criminals in one scene.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

:My weigh in on the Russian fight is that I just wasn't a big fan of Castle getting beat up. I didn't like how it was done in the comic and the movie recreation was just so-so. If you've ever played the PS2 or Xbox Punisher game, that scenario plays out with Frank kicking the crap out of the Russian and tossing him out a window. I'd have liked that better. As for the injured ex-gangbanger, to me that showed a bit of character development from Frank, who had previously shown his distaste for the man, but after working with him had come to view him as an ally. This is something we'd probably never see in the comic, and I liked it. I did really like the shootout in the 04 Punisher, especially when he finished off the wounded guy, but I also felt we got the same type of brutal Punisher mindset when Stevenson threw McGinty onto an iron fence before jumping down on his neck. What I liked the most about the Dolph Lundgren and Ray Stevenson films is that they showed that the Punisher can viciously murder criminals and still be a GOOD GUY without dealing with all that anti-hero moral conundrum bullcrap. -- ZG

::Regarding the gangbanger thing, you may have liked but it was a completely out of character thing for him to say, even to an ally. They went for a cliched moment that was out of character.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

::Yeah, I understand. And I can see how a lot of people wouldn't have liked it. I guess I just like the idea of Castle being an actual good guy sometimes rather than a completely desensitized psycho, which I know is what he's kind of supposed to be. I like a balance, I think it's what makes him endearing as a hero that does very brutal things. -- ZG

Also, scenes being constantly neonlighted got pretty annoying fast. I'm sure the idea sounds cool in paper, but is quite the opposite in practice. -AlkoTanko

Ok, tho i might not be the biggest military buff, i did a few years in the royal marines, but i do know comics and i know the punisher, bitch all you like about the stupid MP5 cieling deal , cus that was retarded, but this is garthe ennis's marvel max punisher, the punisher comics every tru punisher fan swears by. The 2004 tom jane job was based loosely on welcome back frank and punisher year one. Garth ennis wrote welcome back frank as a tester to get punisher made into a serious adult title and he self proclaimed hating the stupid bits in the comic such as the russian. Now you can say that tom janes version was any less tactially aware than stevensons, i mean he took a 40mm lancher into a nightclub and didnt even cover up his arms. Im not sayin i dont like the 2004 version, but it wasnt the punisher. Just angry op the movie, wrong actor, wrong location and a shity villain. So im gonna defend stevensons monosyallabic rough house, and dont forget kiddies, this is based on a comic book movie --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 03:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, anyone who has read Punisher knows he loses a lot of fights, it creates dramatic tension. If he won hands down every fight it would get boring, there needs to be a challenge. That's why every one of the Ennis stories had an epic fight with someone of Frank's aptitude. Second, Frank rarely gives a shit when people die, especially gangbangers reformed or not. The only one in recent memory was O'Brian. Third, they screwed up every villain from the comic. Pitsy was supposed to be an old tough bastard with a "Fuck you you fuckin fuck!" attitude, in this he was more a tag-along fuck-tard. McGinty was a torture loving psycho out for money, not a meth addict free-runner looking for a fun time. Tiberiu Bulat was an irredeemable rapist war criminal, not a kindly old man who had rules who you could make a deal wit. Where should i start with Jigsaw? That being said Stevenson was a pretty good Castle, and Wayne Knight was a pretty good Micro. the movie around them was what sucked, the over the top Jigsaw, the ceiling shooting, and Nicky Cavella the undercover cop instead of the maniac from the comic ruined this film. It talked a good game in the locker room but was shaky when it was time to put on the cleats.

What they should've done was just adapt some Punisher: Max stories, seriously, those're awesome. In fact, wouldn't it be great if directors could just get their head around the fact that they could simply take the comic DIRECTLY into a movie? Of course, then you have their egos to deal with, and then all hell breaks loose... I noticed someone said above that Frank doesn't like the M16/M4. This is true, but he actually does use it, because he likes the M203. And speaking of firearms, would a suppressor on a .50 cal revolver even do anything? I mean, don't revolvers have that gap between the barrel and cylinder, making supporessors useless besides hiding muzzle flash? And another thing; he puts a scope onto the smaller 500, but doesn't put one onto the longer 500, which has a picattiny rail built into it just for scopes? Holy shit, that's just sad. Will there ever be a movie that has a bunch of firearms, but doesn't screw them all up? Huh...you know, imagine that, if some director asks for advice from a site like this to make sure he knows what the hell he's doing. Now that I think about it, why don't the armorers ever tell them about that stuff? Whatever...--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 02:36, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

::I've stated my opinion before that I'm not hooked on having movies made directly from the comics, though I certainly understand the desire. I think the problem most of us have isn't the use of an original storyline, but the fact that filmmakers take characters from the universe that we establish as canon, and then change them for the movie. I don't care much about about his weapon choices, I just like the guns in general. I don't have much to gripe about his tactics as long as he's killing baddies. It seems like we're all looking for something different from Frank. -- ZG

"would a suppressor on a .50 cal revolver even do anything? I mean, don't revolvers have that gap between the barrel and cylinder, making supporessors useless besides hiding muzzle flash?"-- Zblayde|Zblayde

On a normal revolver, no. It is possible to build a revolver tight enough to be effectively suppressed. For an example, look up the Nagant R-1895m though from what I understand the way that the Nagant works is quite different from an ordinary revolver.
One of the biggest advantages to suppressing a revolver is that you don't leave behind any shells.

==Mini Crossbow==
In the beginning of the movie, the Punisher uses a very small fold-out crossbow to take down a guard at the docks. Is this even a real weapon?

- Wade Wilson

Before the weapon is unfolded it has similar shape and structure of a glock pistol or a Sig Sauer

it could be the same model but customized

[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]

=unknowns=
'''[moved from main page]''' --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 06:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
== Mircrochip's gun racks ==
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Right side, very top is a (very) shorty G3. -[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:20, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

:it is a airsot replica produced by Tokyo Marui model company labled the g3SAS

::Yep, correct, that's a G3 SAS from Tokyo Marui. Coincidentally, I held one not too long ago (although the one I held was fitted with a fixed stock). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Punisher2gunrack2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

there is an L86 LSW
(nope sorry it's a L85a2)
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Guns in this pic?==
[[Image:Pwz lair.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Steyr TMP]]?

*m1911 pistol
*mp5
*beretta 92 two tone( maybe a elite II)
*m4a1
*rare.22 type suppresed pistol
== Unknowns ==

[[Image:Punishergun5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
I see the MP5Ks with removed foregrips, Springfield XDs, M1911s and a full size MP5.-[[User:GunnutHk|GunnutHk]]

Actually I think the one on the bottom right is a Smith & Wesson M&P.

[[Image:Punishergun7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
::probaly a Charter Arms Snub

i don't think charter makes a hammerless.
[[Image:Punishergun8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Micro/Mini Uzi? That looks like an Uzi stock
:It's a Smith & Wesson M76. You can see the stock and the hand grip. If your smart.
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Ruger Mk II?
[[Image:RugerMkIIStandard.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ruger Mk II pistol with a standard heavy barrel - .22 LR]].
looks like it. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:31, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

that is a 44 or 357 automag-Doomsayer64

==Revenge or Punishment?==

Okay, the Punisher punishes people right? He began punishing them as a ''form'' of revenge, but still, why would they write "Vengeance has a new name" on the dvd cover? That's kind of inaccurate...does anyone agree? --[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 14:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I think they meant that vengeance has a new name which is Frank Castle

I disagree. There was alreay a Punisher film made. I think they meant Ray Stevenson, since he's replacing Thomas Jane as the Punisher.
As a side note, I believe TJ's Punisher could kick the crap outta RS's Punisher. Agree or disagree?

== So? M4 or not? ==

Reading the comments, I never found a streight answer. Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy. So, when the armourer says 'M4' I doubt he means it. It's definatly an HK416. Please change it. I beg of you.

:Tell me your evidence that it is an HK416. Unfortunately none of the screen caps on the page gives us the lower receiver. It could be a Colt M933, the shorter barrel version of the M4 with a flat top. So point out please how you've come to the conclusion that it's a 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Xi5mYXi0g watch the behind the scenes that talks all about the weapons. You get a pretty good look at the whole rifle the armorer holds up for you. You can see that the top rails are interrupted unlike the 416 which has an uninterrupted top rail. You can also see that on the KAC quad rail system, the holes are big circles instead of small slits. So this is in fact an M4 system with a short 10in barrel, but it could be called the M933 because of the shorter barrel. I know the lighting makes it harder to see the rails and the receiver and on top of that in the semi-dark you can almost see an uninterrupted top rail. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

And what do you mean "Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy." ? Someone on the discussion calling the M4 an AK? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::No, he means "like when we see on other pages people calling a gun the "AK-47" when in reality it is a Norinco Type-56", i.e. the example of technically mis-identifying a gun as a generic type when at IMFDB, we ID as close to the real platform as possible. That's all.

:::I have this movie on Blu Ray, and the Punisher's rifle is not an HK416. The lower receiver lacks H&K markings, and the production model 416 does not have a tan-colored "LE" six-position buttstock. The upper receiver make is harder to identify, but the quad-rail is definitely not the same type that comes standard on the 416. That being said said, this does appear to be a short-stroke piston upper, which is the same type of system used by the 416, but H&K is no longer the only company manufacturing such weapons.

:::Also, yes, it is true that the armorer might just be using "M4" as a generic term, but I don't think so. Actually, in the past few years, we've had a problem on IMFDB where everyone seems to think that any fancy-looking AR-type weapon which lacks a front sight post is an HK416 (I remember when the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page used to say that the Mark 12 Mod 0s in that movie were HK416s). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

:I remember when people also assume a fancy looking AR-15 to be a Barret M468 or the REC-7 as it is called now. Oh MT, how can you tell if it is using a stroke piston upper? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his M4A1]]
The Magazine on the 416 is shaped slightly differently than the M4. Also, it being fitted with the AG36 Grenade Launcher and not the M203. This makes it look like the HK416.

:I'm sorry, but you CLEARLY have no clue here. A 416 can take regular AR mags, and vice-versa. And the AG36 can be mounted to ANY AR model rifle (there are pictures of Canadian SF units using AG36s on their C7s and C8s). Furthermore, as our page says, the AG36 used on this movie was actually a Madbull AGX airsoft replica. This is not an HK416; the receiver has no H&K markings (when I watch my Blu-Ray copy), and the quad-rail handguard is clearly not the HK-style. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

And as I said earlier, if you go to the link to watch the special features of the weapons by the armorer, he holds it up and you can see the quad-rail handguard and the holes are not the same as the 416 and the top rail is interrupted unlike the 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Considering the barrel length, wouldn't it be more accurate to classify it as a Mark 18 CQB-R instead of an M4? I mean, unless someone can identify the suppressor and determine how much barrel it fits over (some suppressors simply screw onto the threads or the flash hider/muzzle brake itself, whereas others, like the OPS, Inc. 12th Model for the Mark 12 SPR, covers a good portion of the barrel when attached, making it seem shorter than it actually is). As most of the regulars here know, most M16A2s in movies have full auto lowers which would technically make them M16A3s, but we still classify them as M16A2s because that's what they're mimicking. And for all intents and purposes, the "M4" in this movie seems to be mimicking a CQB-R. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that it should be relabeled as an M4A1. This weapon is obviously an M4 that was highly customized for CQB, and not a Colt 933-PunisherDave

::I dunno if we can call it the Mark 18 CQBR, since the Mark 18 has a standard DI upper with the triangular front sight post. If anybody can identify the specific make/model of the upper receiver (because I can't), then it would be perfectly fine to re-label the weapon on the page. But what I do know for sure is that this gun is not an HK416, so it would be inappropriate to label it as such. Until we know for sure what it is (and until I see credible proof), "M4A1" is the appropriate generic description. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
:::The standard FSP on an M4 can easily be changed out with another front sight design or even just a gas block. Why would the Mark 18 be any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

::::The thing with the punisher is, he could have changed out the barrel and removed any markings, but whatever it is it is NOT an M4, at least not an off the rack version. I thought it was an HK416 after playing army of two. Certainly does look a hell of a lot like it.

:::::First of all, use "<nowiki>:</nowiki>" to separate your entries; don't bleed into Spartan's. Second, it's not an HK416. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I looked at a weapon made by Bushmaster called the Bushmaster XM-15 E2S, it is an M4 Carbine copy and the image i found had the same stock as this weapon, and to had the top stroke piston, the only difference between the movie and this image is the shorter barrel. I definitely think that the weapon used is the XM-15 E2S

I know im late im on this one but i think its a MK 18 model 0 with the same front assembly as Jack Bauers in 24 series 7 but with the folding front sight removed (http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:24S7E15_Mk_18_Mod_05.JPG). It has the same mini picatinnys on the front over the gas block - Capatin Snikt

::Thanks, Captain Snikt, your suggestion seems a lot closer than anything suggested in this discussion so far. The gas block does look a lot like the one on the AR from Season 7 of ''[[24]]''. Of course, that still doesn't tell us what the base gun might have been. But I guess Mark 18 is about as close as we're gonna get. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:42, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== AK74U is NOT an SMG ==

Somebody put this rifle in the SMG section most likely because he played too much call of duty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== grenade launcher minimum detonation range ==

how come there is a huge stink kicked up about the use of weapons, and no body has made a section about the use of the grenade launcher in the last major fight scenes in the movie. i distinctly remember a scene where frank punches his grenade launcher through a door, and fires it into a room, where it detonates not 5 meters from where it was fired. this hardly seems accurate, as the explosion took out almost all of the occupants of the room, and yet did no harm to the punisher. -turtle

For 2 reasons. One, in all action movies, grenade launchers have NO minimum detonation range and 2...He's the freaking Punisher. He bathes in fire and washes his mouth in bullets [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:44, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
== C-More sight ==
How are we 100% sure that Castle's optic on his AR is a C-More? [[PunisherDave]]

Talk:Punisher: War Zone

2010-10-19T15:50:58Z

PunisherDave: /* C-More sight */

This is a quote from an interview with the military advisor of the film about how he outfitted Frank

"We used weapons based on need and back-story and nothing made up. All of the Punisher’s weapons currently exist and are being used in modern combat! The Punisher originated out of Vietnam, so his primary weapon in the film is an M-4 which he would feel the most comfortable with. To that I mounted a mini grenade launcher using thermo baric grenades for point detonations. I followed that up with the most powerful revolver on the planet, a Knight’s Armament/Smith&Wesson custom Model 500 .50 cal, in a breakaway leg holster as his back-up!
We created two fully automatic Beretta 92f handguns for close quarter combat.
In the opening of the film he uses ultra reliable H&K custom MP5’s in fully automatic that he carries in the small of his back, and for speed draws a H&K USP compact .45.
I also had a custom mini 13” Bolo machete combat knife created that he carries on a leg holster for hand to hand.
The result was modern weapons used in the modern time, but in full Punisher style!"
:Not a very good advisor, is he? The Smith & Wesson 500 is the most powerful production revolver, certainly not the most powerful on the planet. The .600 Nitro Revolver made by some guy that weighs about 12 pounds is the most powerful. Sounds like he's a little too excited about his decisions. Personally, this movie looks like it will suck, but I'll give it a chance. -GM
::The Pfeifer Zeliska .600 Nitro Express revolver is more powerful but it IS NOT a "production revolver" so sorry to break to you chief and your expertise.. but SW 500 "most powerful production revolver in the world today" so the Military Advisor is right.-D
:::You are aware I'm the one who said it's athe most powerful production revolver right? He said it was the most powerful in the world, but it isn't. I said the Pfeifer Zeliska was, but it isn't a production gun. Read more carefully next time. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
: Actually, in the comics Frank Castle states he hates the M16 and M4 rifles. He also always carries a m1911 and a pump gun in his coat and has a M249 on the backseat of his Hummer.-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::For me, I might not watch this movie really because Thomas Jane isn't in it and it looks like a bad generic action movie. I like how the first one showed how the Punisher really can do things we believe, but the moment I saw the trailer of the Punisher dropping from the ceiling, and spinning around with double MP5Ks...it makes it look like the action style is trying to be John Woo, but even that is over the top. The weapon of choices they give the Punisher movie, in my opinion, doesn't fit for how the Punisher should be. I understand the M4 with the grenade launcher and even the USP as the backup, but apparently, he carries all that in one action sequence. Seems a little too much stuff to carry, but hey, I'll give this movie a chance to JUST because I have to really see it to really critize it. -Ex
:Full auto Beretta Inoxs are very tactically stupid. A S&W 500 is not a back up gun, it's a primary. You don't carry an ankle gun that can down a bear. Personally, I thought the original Punisher comics sucked ass, too "comics" like. Have you ever read a seventies comic? They are terrible. Like a bad '50s safety video. Personally I liked the "Welcome Back, Frank" story which the 2004 film was based on. Thomas Jane was going for the "descent into madness" sort of look like DeNiro in ''[[Taxi Driver]]'', which is an interesting idea (although the punisher should not be a physchopath, that's bad). Castle's attachment to 1911s was one of my favorite elements of the story. And my LEAST favorite part of the old comics was the costume. The new story made it a sweet T-shirt, this one brings out the lame ass tights. I just don't have much faith in it. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Are they INOXs or 92FS? I tried to distinguish what I thought was right on the page, but why would they switch Beretta models like that?-UW

:I want to know who this military adviser for the film is and tell him that most of his suggestions for a modern day Punisher arsenal is very stupid. Except the M4 with the GL. The S&W 500 and auto Berettas dual wielding and dual wielding MP5ks while spinning from a chandelier is very stupid and he's watched too many John Woo movies and even John Woo never had his actors spin around a chandelier like that... [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls. I can't say I agree with her vision, but I enjoyed the film for its action and cheesy performances. The 04 version was a serious film that was marred by a lot of stupid stuff and a lack of action. The 08 version was a campy attempt that didn't even try to be serious but had the brutality that the 04 movie lacked. It's sad that a film hasn't yet been made that's done the Punisher justice. I don't know how to post pictures, but put Punisher revolver into a search engine and it will bring up the sweet Knight's Armament custom piece that was made for the final fight, no matter how impractical it may be. A lot of stuff in War Zone was done simply for the sake of theatrics. -- ZG

:::''(I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls.)''
:::Well said, and not to burst anyone else's bubble but the ARMORER or Military Advisor doesn't make the final call on weapons ... EVER. It's the director. Period. I've had to bite my tongue several times (as the other armorers here can attest as well) when a Director picks a weapon that I would not have. But it's their decision to make. So stop blaming the advisors or armorers, when it's probably the director you need to yell at. Just a note! :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

: ''The Punisher '04 was plenty bloody and brutal, better constructed and better acted. Tom Jane's Frank Castle, quite frankly, would stomp mudholes right into the Jason Voorhees wannabe that Ray Stevenson either chose to portray or HAD to portray. And frankly, no amount of theatrics can act as an excuse for the absolute tripe that went down in this movie. Seemed like the man was holstering and drawing his pistols every other kill; I'm sorry, isn't he supposed to be former frickin' Special Forces? And for all of the whole "We're more faithful to the comics" crap, I'm not seeing it. I can't remember a single one of the MAX comics being as horrible as this movie ended up being. Total dreck. And I've got a few choice words for the military advisor on the movie, but I'm afraid that they're not suitable for even this little corner of the Internet.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

The theatrics, I think, were just another one of the films downfalls. I agree the 04 version was better acted. As for the construction of the films...eh, I've got too many thoughts to list. I'm glad you liked the 04 movie. The fact that both films have so many fans AND detractors just means there's so much territory still to cover, though I think the fans have been part of what tears these movies apart. I'm much more lenient on the film because I have no definitive view of the Punisher and I really have no particular need for material to come directly from the comics. I think we need to step away from the comics and focus on what makes a good movie, instead. Though I was just thinking earlier that War Zone was so goofy and flamboyant, if they were going to drop the Punisher into the Marvel Universe with the likes of Spiderman and Iron Man, this would pretty much be the Punisher I would expect them to use.
:^Do we have comments from a film maker here? Please comment more. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==They destroyed [[The Punisher]]==

The advisor said that the guns are full punisher style! Bullshit! they ruined the whole thing like the dropping from the ceiling with to SMGs part. And the real punisher doesn't use extremely modern looking weapons and dress up like that! This movie might have lots of action and all that but the style of the punisher is gone. The 1911s are a trademark of Frank Castle, so to Lionsgate, bring Thomas Jane back or the next Punisher suffers!-GunnutHk

:Thomas Jane was completely onboard for the second Punisher movie, but when the producers took too long getting a script up and changing actors, he decided to drop out. I think this movie would have been better if Thomas Jane was in it. And speaking of the 1911, we do see in the movie the Punisher taking a 1911, disasemebling it and cleaning it, but never use it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

:Agreed, Thomas Jane's take on Castle was far superior to Ray Stevenson's (no diss to Ray, though, as he's one of my favorite actors). And I also agree that the weapon selections (save for the M4A1, the SL8, and the MP5Ks) sucked. They should have given him 1911s instead of Beretta 92s or that 500 and put an M203 on the M4 instead of that AGX. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi everybody i was just wonering wher did he keep his usp compact?

the Punisher seems like a Vigilante slowly going down hill then a action hero rex095

Better than the Thomas Jane one there reason is Castle has no super powers but he has one that could be a super power his incredible pain tolerance he just doesn't care about pain he is a pure killing machine no regrets whatsoever and that's why this movie nailed it, Jane was a pussy with his t shirt and getting beaten all the time in this movie even though he got the shit kicked out of him by Jigsaws brother he didn't even flinch he didn't hesitate to kill micro cause that was what he had to do Punisher doesn't care about life if it can't be saved he wont try

:The Jane Punisher getting the shit kicked out of him by the Russian was straight out of the comics and very faithful to how it played on film. The fight with LBJ was frankly anemic, and boring. Also, if he doesn't care about a life that he knows can not be saved, then why the hell did he tell the ex-gangbanger who was missing limbs and had an axe in his chest not to die on him? That is a very un-Punisher thing to say.

:And that one shot in the 2004 film of Jane shooting a thug lying wounded on the ground without given him any notice or care, says a lot more about the character than killing 50 criminals in one scene.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

:My weigh in on the Russian fight is that I just wasn't a big fan of Castle getting beat up. I didn't like how it was done in the comic and the movie recreation was just so-so. If you've ever played the PS2 or Xbox Punisher game, that scenario plays out with Frank kicking the crap out of the Russian and tossing him out a window. I'd have liked that better. As for the injured ex-gangbanger, to me that showed a bit of character development from Frank, who had previously shown his distaste for the man, but after working with him had come to view him as an ally. This is something we'd probably never see in the comic, and I liked it. I did really like the shootout in the 04 Punisher, especially when he finished off the wounded guy, but I also felt we got the same type of brutal Punisher mindset when Stevenson threw McGinty onto an iron fence before jumping down on his neck. What I liked the most about the Dolph Lundgren and Ray Stevenson films is that they showed that the Punisher can viciously murder criminals and still be a GOOD GUY without dealing with all that anti-hero moral conundrum bullcrap. -- ZG

::Regarding the gangbanger thing, you may have liked but it was a completely out of character thing for him to say, even to an ally. They went for a cliched moment that was out of character.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

::Yeah, I understand. And I can see how a lot of people wouldn't have liked it. I guess I just like the idea of Castle being an actual good guy sometimes rather than a completely desensitized psycho, which I know is what he's kind of supposed to be. I like a balance, I think it's what makes him endearing as a hero that does very brutal things. -- ZG

Also, scenes being constantly neonlighted got pretty annoying fast. I'm sure the idea sounds cool in paper, but is quite the opposite in practice. -AlkoTanko

Ok, tho i might not be the biggest military buff, i did a few years in the royal marines, but i do know comics and i know the punisher, bitch all you like about the stupid MP5 cieling deal , cus that was retarded, but this is garthe ennis's marvel max punisher, the punisher comics every tru punisher fan swears by. The 2004 tom jane job was based loosely on welcome back frank and punisher year one. Garth ennis wrote welcome back frank as a tester to get punisher made into a serious adult title and he self proclaimed hating the stupid bits in the comic such as the russian. Now you can say that tom janes version was any less tactially aware than stevensons, i mean he took a 40mm lancher into a nightclub and didnt even cover up his arms. Im not sayin i dont like the 2004 version, but it wasnt the punisher. Just angry op the movie, wrong actor, wrong location and a shity villain. So im gonna defend stevensons monosyallabic rough house, and dont forget kiddies, this is based on a comic book movie --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 03:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, anyone who has read Punisher knows he loses a lot of fights, it creates dramatic tension. If he won hands down every fight it would get boring, there needs to be a challenge. That's why every one of the Ennis stories had an epic fight with someone of Frank's aptitude. Second, Frank rarely gives a shit when people die, especially gangbangers reformed or not. The only one in recent memory was O'Brian. Third, they screwed up every villain from the comic. Pitsy was supposed to be an old tough bastard with a "Fuck you you fuckin fuck!" attitude, in this he was more a tag-along fuck-tard. McGinty was a torture loving psycho out for money, not a meth addict free-runner looking for a fun time. Tiberiu Bulat was an irredeemable rapist war criminal, not a kindly old man who had rules who you could make a deal wit. Where should i start with Jigsaw? That being said Stevenson was a pretty good Castle, and Wayne Knight was a pretty good Micro. the movie around them was what sucked, the over the top Jigsaw, the ceiling shooting, and Nicky Cavella the undercover cop instead of the maniac from the comic ruined this film. It talked a good game in the locker room but was shaky when it was time to put on the cleats.

What they should've done was just adapt some Punisher: Max stories, seriously, those're awesome. In fact, wouldn't it be great if directors could just get their head around the fact that they could simply take the comic DIRECTLY into a movie? Of course, then you have their egos to deal with, and then all hell breaks loose... I noticed someone said above that Frank doesn't like the M16/M4. This is true, but he actually does use it, because he likes the M203. And speaking of firearms, would a suppressor on a .50 cal revolver even do anything? I mean, don't revolvers have that gap between the barrel and cylinder, making supporessors useless besides hiding muzzle flash? And another thing; he puts a scope onto the smaller 500, but doesn't put one onto the longer 500, which has a picattiny rail built into it just for scopes? Holy shit, that's just sad. Will there ever be a movie that has a bunch of firearms, but doesn't screw them all up? Huh...you know, imagine that, if some director asks for advice from a site like this to make sure he knows what the hell he's doing. Now that I think about it, why don't the armorers ever tell them about that stuff? Whatever...--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 02:36, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

::I've stated my opinion before that I'm not hooked on having movies made directly from the comics, though I certainly understand the desire. I think the problem most of us have isn't the use of an original storyline, but the fact that filmmakers take characters from the universe that we establish as canon, and then change them for the movie. I don't care much about about his weapon choices, I just like the guns in general. I don't have much to gripe about his tactics as long as he's killing baddies. It seems like we're all looking for something different from Frank. -- ZG

"would a suppressor on a .50 cal revolver even do anything? I mean, don't revolvers have that gap between the barrel and cylinder, making supporessors useless besides hiding muzzle flash?"-- Zblayde|Zblayde

On a normal revolver, no. It is possible to build a revolver tight enough to be effectively suppressed. For an example, look up the Nagant R-1895m though from what I understand the way that the Nagant works is quite different from an ordinary revolver.
One of the biggest advantages to suppressing a revolver is that you don't leave behind any shells.

==Mini Crossbow==
In the beginning of the movie, the Punisher uses a very small fold-out crossbow to take down a guard at the docks. Is this even a real weapon?

- Wade Wilson

Before the weapon is unfolded it has similar shape and structure of a glock pistol or a Sig Sauer

it could be the same model but customized

[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]

=unknowns=
'''[moved from main page]''' --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 06:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
== Mircrochip's gun racks ==
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Right side, very top is a (very) shorty G3. -[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:20, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

:it is a airsot replica produced by Tokyo Marui model company labled the g3SAS

::Yep, correct, that's a G3 SAS from Tokyo Marui. Coincidentally, I held one not too long ago (although the one I held was fitted with a fixed stock). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Punisher2gunrack2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

there is an L86 LSW
(nope sorry it's a L85a2)
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Guns in this pic?==
[[Image:Pwz lair.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Steyr TMP]]?

*m1911 pistol
*mp5
*beretta 92 two tone( maybe a elite II)
*m4a1
*rare.22 type suppresed pistol
== Unknowns ==

[[Image:Punishergun5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
I see the MP5Ks with removed foregrips, Springfield XDs, M1911s and a full size MP5.-[[User:GunnutHk|GunnutHk]]

Actually I think the one on the bottom right is a Smith & Wesson M&P.

[[Image:Punishergun7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
::probaly a Charter Arms Snub

i don't think charter makes a hammerless.
[[Image:Punishergun8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Micro/Mini Uzi? That looks like an Uzi stock
:It's a Smith & Wesson M76. You can see the stock and the hand grip. If your smart.
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Ruger Mk II?
[[Image:RugerMkIIStandard.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ruger Mk II pistol with a standard heavy barrel - .22 LR]].
looks like it. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:31, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

that is a 44 or 357 automag-Doomsayer64

==Revenge or Punishment?==

Okay, the Punisher punishes people right? He began punishing them as a ''form'' of revenge, but still, why would they write "Vengeance has a new name" on the dvd cover? That's kind of inaccurate...does anyone agree? --[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 14:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I think they meant that vengeance has a new name which is Frank Castle

I disagree. There was alreay a Punisher film made. I think they meant Ray Stevenson, since he's replacing Thomas Jane as the Punisher.
As a side note, I believe TJ's Punisher could kick the crap outta RS's Punisher. Agree or disagree?

== So? M4 or not? ==

Reading the comments, I never found a streight answer. Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy. So, when the armourer says 'M4' I doubt he means it. It's definatly an HK416. Please change it. I beg of you.

:Tell me your evidence that it is an HK416. Unfortunately none of the screen caps on the page gives us the lower receiver. It could be a Colt M933, the shorter barrel version of the M4 with a flat top. So point out please how you've come to the conclusion that it's a 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Xi5mYXi0g watch the behind the scenes that talks all about the weapons. You get a pretty good look at the whole rifle the armorer holds up for you. You can see that the top rails are interrupted unlike the 416 which has an uninterrupted top rail. You can also see that on the KAC quad rail system, the holes are big circles instead of small slits. So this is in fact an M4 system with a short 10in barrel, but it could be called the M933 because of the shorter barrel. I know the lighting makes it harder to see the rails and the receiver and on top of that in the semi-dark you can almost see an uninterrupted top rail. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

And what do you mean "Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy." ? Someone on the discussion calling the M4 an AK? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::No, he means "like when we see on other pages people calling a gun the "AK-47" when in reality it is a Norinco Type-56", i.e. the example of technically mis-identifying a gun as a generic type when at IMFDB, we ID as close to the real platform as possible. That's all.

:::I have this movie on Blu Ray, and the Punisher's rifle is not an HK416. The lower receiver lacks H&K markings, and the production model 416 does not have a tan-colored "LE" six-position buttstock. The upper receiver make is harder to identify, but the quad-rail is definitely not the same type that comes standard on the 416. That being said said, this does appear to be a short-stroke piston upper, which is the same type of system used by the 416, but H&K is no longer the only company manufacturing such weapons.

:::Also, yes, it is true that the armorer might just be using "M4" as a generic term, but I don't think so. Actually, in the past few years, we've had a problem on IMFDB where everyone seems to think that any fancy-looking AR-type weapon which lacks a front sight post is an HK416 (I remember when the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page used to say that the Mark 12 Mod 0s in that movie were HK416s). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

:I remember when people also assume a fancy looking AR-15 to be a Barret M468 or the REC-7 as it is called now. Oh MT, how can you tell if it is using a stroke piston upper? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his M4A1]]
The Magazine on the 416 is shaped slightly differently than the M4. Also, it being fitted with the AG36 Grenade Launcher and not the M203. This makes it look like the HK416.

:I'm sorry, but you CLEARLY have no clue here. A 416 can take regular AR mags, and vice-versa. And the AG36 can be mounted to ANY AR model rifle (there are pictures of Canadian SF units using AG36s on their C7s and C8s). Furthermore, as our page says, the AG36 used on this movie was actually a Madbull AGX airsoft replica. This is not an HK416; the receiver has no H&K markings (when I watch my Blu-Ray copy), and the quad-rail handguard is clearly not the HK-style. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

And as I said earlier, if you go to the link to watch the special features of the weapons by the armorer, he holds it up and you can see the quad-rail handguard and the holes are not the same as the 416 and the top rail is interrupted unlike the 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Considering the barrel length, wouldn't it be more accurate to classify it as a Mark 18 CQB-R instead of an M4? I mean, unless someone can identify the suppressor and determine how much barrel it fits over (some suppressors simply screw onto the threads or the flash hider/muzzle brake itself, whereas others, like the OPS, Inc. 12th Model for the Mark 12 SPR, covers a good portion of the barrel when attached, making it seem shorter than it actually is). As most of the regulars here know, most M16A2s in movies have full auto lowers which would technically make them M16A3s, but we still classify them as M16A2s because that's what they're mimicking. And for all intents and purposes, the "M4" in this movie seems to be mimicking a CQB-R. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that it should be relabeled as an M4A1. This weapon is obviously an M4 that was highly customized for CQB, and not a Colt 933-PunisherDave

::I dunno if we can call it the Mark 18 CQBR, since the Mark 18 has a standard DI upper with the triangular front sight post. If anybody can identify the specific make/model of the upper receiver (because I can't), then it would be perfectly fine to re-label the weapon on the page. But what I do know for sure is that this gun is not an HK416, so it would be inappropriate to label it as such. Until we know for sure what it is (and until I see credible proof), "M4A1" is the appropriate generic description. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
:::The standard FSP on an M4 can easily be changed out with another front sight design or even just a gas block. Why would the Mark 18 be any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

::::The thing with the punisher is, he could have changed out the barrel and removed any markings, but whatever it is it is NOT an M4, at least not an off the rack version. I thought it was an HK416 after playing army of two. Certainly does look a hell of a lot like it.

:::::First of all, use "<nowiki>:</nowiki>" to separate your entries; don't bleed into Spartan's. Second, it's not an HK416. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I looked at a weapon made by Bushmaster called the Bushmaster XM-15 E2S, it is an M4 Carbine copy and the image i found had the same stock as this weapon, and to had the top stroke piston, the only difference between the movie and this image is the shorter barrel. I definitely think that the weapon used is the XM-15 E2S

I agree, I believe that it is a customized Bushmaster E2S Modular Carbine [[PunisherDave]]

:The gas block looks off, so I'd like to see proof. And next time, please don't change the page before you've shown proof (I reverted it back). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:52, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I know im late im on this one but i think its a MK 18 model 0 with the same front assembly as Jack Bauers in 24 series 7 but with the folding front sight removed (http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:24S7E15_Mk_18_Mod_05.JPG). It has the same mini picatinnys on the front over the gas block - Capatin Snikt

::Thanks, Captain Snikt, your suggestion seems a lot closer than anything suggested in this discussion so far. The gas block does look a lot like the one on the AR from Season 7 of ''[[24]]''. Of course, that still doesn't tell us what the base gun might have been. But I guess Mark 18 is about as close as we're gonna get. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:42, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

== AK74U is NOT an SMG ==

Somebody put this rifle in the SMG section most likely because he played too much call of duty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== grenade launcher minimum detonation range ==

how come there is a huge stink kicked up about the use of weapons, and no body has made a section about the use of the grenade launcher in the last major fight scenes in the movie. i distinctly remember a scene where frank punches his grenade launcher through a door, and fires it into a room, where it detonates not 5 meters from where it was fired. this hardly seems accurate, as the explosion took out almost all of the occupants of the room, and yet did no harm to the punisher. -turtle

For 2 reasons. One, in all action movies, grenade launchers have NO minimum detonation range and 2...He's the freaking Punisher. He bathes in fire and washes his mouth in bullets [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:44, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
== C-More sight ==
How are we 100% sure that Castle's optic on his AR is a C-More? [[PunisherDave]]

User:PunisherDave

2010-10-13T12:35:46Z

PunisherDave:

Hey, I'm Dave.. yeah, I assumed that you didn't figure that out by my signature. I'm a gun nut. I like all firearms, except bolt-action rifles. I know what you're gonna say "How can you NOT like bolt-action?!?!?"... the answer is simple... if I'm outside the range of my AR-15... I'm gonna close the distance so that I'm within the range of it. The range that a bolt-action truly shines is a range that I'd rather not be at... I'm a CQB guy.. a 12 Gauge and a Beretta 92FS are my firearms of choice. Yeah, I like 9x19mm over .45 ACP, or .45 Colt, or .44 Mag, or even .50 AE. But I do like .500 S&W Mag.

God bless,
PunisherDave

P.S. yeah, I'm Christian... SURPRISE!

Talk:Punisher: War Zone

2010-10-13T12:31:10Z

PunisherDave:

This is a quote from an interview with the military advisor of the film about how he outfitted Frank

"We used weapons based on need and back-story and nothing made up. All of the Punisher’s weapons currently exist and are being used in modern combat! The Punisher originated out of Vietnam, so his primary weapon in the film is an M-4 which he would feel the most comfortable with. To that I mounted a mini grenade launcher using thermo baric grenades for point detonations. I followed that up with the most powerful revolver on the planet, a Knight’s Armament/Smith&Wesson custom Model 500 .50 cal, in a breakaway leg holster as his back-up!
We created two fully automatic Beretta 92f handguns for close quarter combat.
In the opening of the film he uses ultra reliable H&K custom MP5’s in fully automatic that he carries in the small of his back, and for speed draws a H&K USP compact .45.
I also had a custom mini 13” Bolo machete combat knife created that he carries on a leg holster for hand to hand.
The result was modern weapons used in the modern time, but in full Punisher style!"
:Not a very good advisor, is he? The Smith & Wesson 500 is the most powerful production revolver, certainly not the most powerful on the planet. The .600 Nitro Revolver made by some guy that weighs about 12 pounds is the most powerful. Sounds like he's a little too excited about his decisions. Personally, this movie looks like it will suck, but I'll give it a chance. -GM
::The Pfeifer Zeliska .600 Nitro Express revolver is more powerful but it IS NOT a "production revolver" so sorry to break to you chief and your expertise.. but SW 500 "most powerful production revolver in the world today" so the Military Advisor is right.-D
:::You are aware I'm the one who said it's athe most powerful production revolver right? He said it was the most powerful in the world, but it isn't. I said the Pfeifer Zeliska was, but it isn't a production gun. Read more carefully next time. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
: Actually, in the comics Frank Castle states he hates the M16 and M4 rifles. He also always carries a m1911 and a pump gun in his coat and has a M249 on the backseat of his Hummer.-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::For me, I might not watch this movie really because Thomas Jane isn't in it and it looks like a bad generic action movie. I like how the first one showed how the Punisher really can do things we believe, but the moment I saw the trailer of the Punisher dropping from the ceiling, and spinning around with double MP5Ks...it makes it look like the action style is trying to be John Woo, but even that is over the top. The weapon of choices they give the Punisher movie, in my opinion, doesn't fit for how the Punisher should be. I understand the M4 with the grenade launcher and even the USP as the backup, but apparently, he carries all that in one action sequence. Seems a little too much stuff to carry, but hey, I'll give this movie a chance to JUST because I have to really see it to really critize it. -Ex
:Full auto Beretta Inoxs are very tactically stupid. A S&W 500 is not a back up gun, it's a primary. You don't carry an ankle gun that can down a bear. Personally, I thought the original Punisher comics sucked ass, too "comics" like. Have you ever read a seventies comic? They are terrible. Like a bad '50s safety video. Personally I liked the "Welcome Back, Frank" story which the 2004 film was based on. Thomas Jane was going for the "descent into madness" sort of look like DeNiro in ''[[Taxi Driver]]'', which is an interesting idea (although the punisher should not be a physchopath, that's bad). Castle's attachment to 1911s was one of my favorite elements of the story. And my LEAST favorite part of the old comics was the costume. The new story made it a sweet T-shirt, this one brings out the lame ass tights. I just don't have much faith in it. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Are they INOXs or 92FS? I tried to distinguish what I thought was right on the page, but why would they switch Beretta models like that?-UW

:I want to know who this military adviser for the film is and tell him that most of his suggestions for a modern day Punisher arsenal is very stupid. Except the M4 with the GL. The S&W 500 and auto Berettas dual wielding and dual wielding MP5ks while spinning from a chandelier is very stupid and he's watched too many John Woo movies and even John Woo never had his actors spin around a chandelier like that... [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls. I can't say I agree with her vision, but I enjoyed the film for its action and cheesy performances. The 04 version was a serious film that was marred by a lot of stupid stuff and a lack of action. The 08 version was a campy attempt that didn't even try to be serious but had the brutality that the 04 movie lacked. It's sad that a film hasn't yet been made that's done the Punisher justice. I don't know how to post pictures, but put Punisher revolver into a search engine and it will bring up the sweet Knight's Armament custom piece that was made for the final fight, no matter how impractical it may be. A lot of stuff in War Zone was done simply for the sake of theatrics. -- ZG

:::''(I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls.)''
:::Well said, and not to burst anyone else's bubble but the ARMORER or Military Advisor doesn't make the final call on weapons ... EVER. It's the director. Period. I've had to bite my tongue several times (as the other armorers here can attest as well) when a Director picks a weapon that I would not have. But it's their decision to make. So stop blaming the advisors or armorers, when it's probably the director you need to yell at. Just a note! :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

: ''The Punisher '04 was plenty bloody and brutal, better constructed and better acted. Tom Jane's Frank Castle, quite frankly, would stomp mudholes right into the Jason Voorhees wannabe that Ray Stevenson either chose to portray or HAD to portray. And frankly, no amount of theatrics can act as an excuse for the absolute tripe that went down in this movie. Seemed like the man was holstering and drawing his pistols every other kill; I'm sorry, isn't he supposed to be former frickin' Special Forces? And for all of the whole "We're more faithful to the comics" crap, I'm not seeing it. I can't remember a single one of the MAX comics being as horrible as this movie ended up being. Total dreck. And I've got a few choice words for the military advisor on the movie, but I'm afraid that they're not suitable for even this little corner of the Internet.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

The theatrics, I think, were just another one of the films downfalls. I agree the 04 version was better acted. As for the construction of the films...eh, I've got too many thoughts to list. I'm glad you liked the 04 movie. The fact that both films have so many fans AND detractors just means there's so much territory still to cover, though I think the fans have been part of what tears these movies apart. I'm much more lenient on the film because I have no definitive view of the Punisher and I really have no particular need for material to come directly from the comics. I think we need to step away from the comics and focus on what makes a good movie, instead. Though I was just thinking earlier that War Zone was so goofy and flamboyant, if they were going to drop the Punisher into the Marvel Universe with the likes of Spiderman and Iron Man, this would pretty much be the Punisher I would expect them to use.
:^Do we have comments from a film maker here? Please comment more. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==They destroyed [[The Punisher]]==

The advisor said that the guns are full punisher style! Bullshit! they ruined the whole thing like the dropping from the ceiling with to SMGs part. And the real punisher doesn't use extremely modern looking weapons and dress up like that! This movie might have lots of action and all that but the style of the punisher is gone. The 1911s are a trademark of Frank Castle, so to Lionsgate, bring Thomas Jane back or the next Punisher suffers!-GunnutHk

:Thomas Jane was completely onboard for the second Punisher movie, but when the producers took too long getting a script up and changing actors, he decided to drop out. I think this movie would have been better if Thomas Jane was in it. And speaking of the 1911, we do see in the movie the Punisher taking a 1911, disasemebling it and cleaning it, but never use it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

:Agreed, Thomas Jane's take on Castle was far superior to Ray Stevenson's (no diss to Ray, though, as he's one of my favorite actors). And I also agree that the weapon selections (save for the M4A1, the SL8, and the MP5Ks) sucked. They should have given him 1911s instead of Beretta 92s or that 500 and put an M203 on the M4 instead of that AGX. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi everybody i was just wonering wher did he keep his usp compact?

the Punisher seems like a Vigilante slowly going down hill then a action hero rex095

Better than the Thomas Jane one there reason is Castle has no super powers but he has one that could be a super power his incredible pain tolerance he just doesn't care about pain he is a pure killing machine no regrets whatsoever and that's why this movie nailed it, Jane was a pussy with his t shirt and getting beaten all the time in this movie even though he got the shit kicked out of him by Jigsaws brother he didn't even flinch he didn't hesitate to kill micro cause that was what he had to do Punisher doesn't care about life if it can't be saved he wont try

:The Jane Punisher getting the shit kicked out of him by the Russian was straight out of the comics and very faithful to how it played on film. The fight with LBJ was frankly anemic, and boring. Also, if he doesn't care about a life that he knows can not be saved, then why the hell did he tell the ex-gangbanger who was missing limbs and had an axe in his chest not to die on him? That is a very un-Punisher thing to say.

:And that one shot in the 2004 film of Jane shooting a thug lying wounded on the ground without given him any notice or care, says a lot more about the character than killing 50 criminals in one scene.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

:My weigh in on the Russian fight is that I just wasn't a big fan of Castle getting beat up. I didn't like how it was done in the comic and the movie recreation was just so-so. If you've ever played the PS2 or Xbox Punisher game, that scenario plays out with Frank kicking the crap out of the Russian and tossing him out a window. I'd have liked that better. As for the injured ex-gangbanger, to me that showed a bit of character development from Frank, who had previously shown his distaste for the man, but after working with him had come to view him as an ally. This is something we'd probably never see in the comic, and I liked it. I did really like the shootout in the 04 Punisher, especially when he finished off the wounded guy, but I also felt we got the same type of brutal Punisher mindset when Stevenson threw McGinty onto an iron fence before jumping down on his neck. What I liked the most about the Dolph Lundgren and Ray Stevenson films is that they showed that the Punisher can viciously murder criminals and still be a GOOD GUY without dealing with all that anti-hero moral conundrum bullcrap. -- ZG

::Regarding the gangbanger thing, you may have liked but it was a completely out of character thing for him to say, even to an ally. They went for a cliched moment that was out of character.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

::Yeah, I understand. And I can see how a lot of people wouldn't have liked it. I guess I just like the idea of Castle being an actual good guy sometimes rather than a completely desensitized psycho, which I know is what he's kind of supposed to be. I like a balance, I think it's what makes him endearing as a hero that does very brutal things. -- ZG

Also, scenes being constantly neonlighted got pretty annoying fast. I'm sure the idea sounds cool in paper, but is quite the opposite in practice. -AlkoTanko

Ok, tho i might not be the biggest military buff, i did a few years in the royal marines, but i do know comics and i know the punisher, bitch all you like about the stupid MP5 cieling deal , cus that was retarded, but this is garthe ennis's marvel max punisher, the punisher comics every tru punisher fan swears by. The 2004 tom jane job was based loosely on welcome back frank and punisher year one. Garth ennis wrote welcome back frank as a tester to get punisher made into a serious adult title and he self proclaimed hating the stupid bits in the comic such as the russian. Now you can say that tom janes version was any less tactially aware than stevensons, i mean he took a 40mm lancher into a nightclub and didnt even cover up his arms. Im not sayin i dont like the 2004 version, but it wasnt the punisher. Just angry op the movie, wrong actor, wrong location and a shity villain. So im gonna defend stevensons monosyallabic rough house, and dont forget kiddies, this is based on a comic book movie --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 03:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, anyone who has read Punisher knows he loses a lot of fights, it creates dramatic tension. If he won hands down every fight it would get boring, there needs to be a challenge. That's why every one of the Ennis stories had an epic fight with someone of Frank's aptitude. Second, Frank rarely gives a shit when people die, especially gangbangers reformed or not. The only one in recent memory was O'Brian. Third, they screwed up every villain from the comic. Pitsy was supposed to be an old tough bastard with a "Fuck you you fuckin fuck!" attitude, in this he was more a tag-along fuck-tard. McGinty was a torture loving psycho out for money, not a meth addict free-runner looking for a fun time. Tiberiu Bulat was an irredeemable rapist war criminal, not a kindly old man who had rules who you could make a deal wit. Where should i start with Jigsaw? That being said Stevenson was a pretty good Castle, and Wayne Knight was a pretty good Micro. the movie around them was what sucked, the over the top Jigsaw, the ceiling shooting, and Nicky Cavella the undercover cop instead of the maniac from the comic ruined this film. It talked a good game in the locker room but was shaky when it was time to put on the cleats.

What they should've done was just adapt some Punisher: Max stories, seriously, those're awesome. In fact, wouldn't it be great if directors could just get their head around the fact that they could simply take the comic DIRECTLY into a movie? Of course, then you have their egos to deal with, and then all hell breaks loose... I noticed someone said above that Frank doesn't like the M16/M4. This is true, but he actually does use it, because he likes the M203. And speaking of firearms, would a suppressor on a .50 cal revolver even do anything? I mean, don't revolvers have that gap between the barrel and cylinder, making supporessors useless besides hiding muzzle flash? And another thing; he puts a scope onto the smaller 500, but doesn't put one onto the longer 500, which has a picattiny rail built into it just for scopes? Holy shit, that's just sad. Will there ever be a movie that has a bunch of firearms, but doesn't screw them all up? Huh...you know, imagine that, if some director asks for advice from a site like this to make sure he knows what the hell he's doing. Now that I think about it, why don't the armorers ever tell them about that stuff? Whatever...--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 02:36, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

::I've stated my opinion before that I'm not hooked on having movies made directly from the comics, though I certainly understand the desire. I think the problem most of us have isn't the use of an original storyline, but the fact that filmmakers take characters from the universe that we establish as canon, and then change them for the movie. I don't care much about about his weapon choices, I just like the guns in general. I don't have much to gripe about his tactics as long as he's killing baddies. It seems like we're all looking for something different from Frank. -- ZG

"would a suppressor on a .50 cal revolver even do anything? I mean, don't revolvers have that gap between the barrel and cylinder, making supporessors useless besides hiding muzzle flash?"-- Zblayde|Zblayde

On a normal revolver, no. It is possible to build a revolver tight enough to be effectively suppressed. For an example, look up the Nagant R-1895m though from what I understand the way that the Nagant works is quite different from an ordinary revolver.
One of the biggest advantages to suppressing a revolver is that you don't leave behind any shells.

==Mini Crossbow==
In the beginning of the movie, the Punisher uses a very small fold-out crossbow to take down a guard at the docks. Is this even a real weapon?

- Wade Wilson

Before the weapon is unfolded it has similar shape and structure of a glock pistol or a Sig Sauer

it could be the same model but customized

[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]

=unknowns=
'''[moved from main page]''' --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 06:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
== Mircrochip's gun racks ==
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Right side, very top is a (very) shorty G3. -[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:20, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

:it is a airsot replica produced by Tokyo Marui model company labled the g3SAS

::Yep, correct, that's a G3 SAS from Tokyo Marui. Coincidentally, I held one not too long ago (although the one I held was fitted with a fixed stock). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Punisher2gunrack2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

there is an L86 LSW
(nope sorry it's a L85a2)
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Guns in this pic?==
[[Image:Pwz lair.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Steyr TMP]]?

*m1911 pistol
*mp5
*beretta 92 two tone( maybe a elite II)
*m4a1
*rare.22 type suppresed pistol
== Unknowns ==

[[Image:Punishergun5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
I see the MP5Ks with removed foregrips, Springfield XDs, M1911s and a full size MP5.-[[User:GunnutHk|GunnutHk]]

Actually I think the one on the bottom right is a Smith & Wesson M&P.

[[Image:Punishergun7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
::probaly a Charter Arms Snub

i don't think charter makes a hammerless.
[[Image:Punishergun8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Micro/Mini Uzi? That looks like an Uzi stock
:It's a Smith & Wesson M76. You can see the stock and the hand grip. If your smart.
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Ruger Mk II?
[[Image:RugerMkIIStandard.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ruger Mk II pistol with a standard heavy barrel - .22 LR]].
looks like it. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:31, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

that is a 44 or 357 automag-Doomsayer64

==Revenge or Punishment?==

Okay, the Punisher punishes people right? He began punishing them as a ''form'' of revenge, but still, why would they write "Vengeance has a new name" on the dvd cover? That's kind of inaccurate...does anyone agree? --[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 14:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I think they meant that vengeance has a new name which is Frank Castle

I disagree. There was alreay a Punisher film made. I think they meant Ray Stevenson, since he's replacing Thomas Jane as the Punisher.
As a side note, I believe TJ's Punisher could kick the crap outta RS's Punisher. Agree or disagree?

== So? M4 or not? ==

Reading the comments, I never found a streight answer. Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy. So, when the armourer says 'M4' I doubt he means it. It's definatly an HK416. Please change it. I beg of you.

:Tell me your evidence that it is an HK416. Unfortunately none of the screen caps on the page gives us the lower receiver. It could be a Colt M933, the shorter barrel version of the M4 with a flat top. So point out please how you've come to the conclusion that it's a 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Xi5mYXi0g watch the behind the scenes that talks all about the weapons. You get a pretty good look at the whole rifle the armorer holds up for you. You can see that the top rails are interrupted unlike the 416 which has an uninterrupted top rail. You can also see that on the KAC quad rail system, the holes are big circles instead of small slits. So this is in fact an M4 system with a short 10in barrel, but it could be called the M933 because of the shorter barrel. I know the lighting makes it harder to see the rails and the receiver and on top of that in the semi-dark you can almost see an uninterrupted top rail. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

And what do you mean "Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy." ? Someone on the discussion calling the M4 an AK? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::No, he means "like when we see on other pages people calling a gun the "AK-47" when in reality it is a Norinco Type-56", i.e. the example of technically mis-identifying a gun as a generic type when at IMFDB, we ID as close to the real platform as possible. That's all.

:::I have this movie on Blu Ray, and the Punisher's rifle is not an HK416. The lower receiver lacks H&K markings, and the production model 416 does not have a tan-colored "LE" six-position buttstock. The upper receiver make is harder to identify, but the quad-rail is definitely not the same type that comes standard on the 416. That being said said, this does appear to be a short-stroke piston upper, which is the same type of system used by the 416, but H&K is no longer the only company manufacturing such weapons.

:::Also, yes, it is true that the armorer might just be using "M4" as a generic term, but I don't think so. Actually, in the past few years, we've had a problem on IMFDB where everyone seems to think that any fancy-looking AR-type weapon which lacks a front sight post is an HK416 (I remember when the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page used to say that the Mark 12 Mod 0s in that movie were HK416s). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

:I remember when people also assume a fancy looking AR-15 to be a Barret M468 or the REC-7 as it is called now. Oh MT, how can you tell if it is using a stroke piston upper? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his M4A1]]
The Magazine on the 416 is shaped slightly differently than the M4. Also, it being fitted with the AG36 Grenade Launcher and not the M203. This makes it look like the HK416.

:I'm sorry, but you CLEARLY have no clue here. A 416 can take regular AR mags, and vice-versa. And the AG36 can be mounted to ANY AR model rifle (there are pictures of Canadian SF units using AG36s on their C7s and C8s). Furthermore, as our page says, the AG36 used on this movie was actually a Madbull AGX airsoft replica. This is not an HK416; the receiver has no H&K markings (when I watch my Blu-Ray copy), and the quad-rail handguard is clearly not the HK-style. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

And as I said earlier, if you go to the link to watch the special features of the weapons by the armorer, he holds it up and you can see the quad-rail handguard and the holes are not the same as the 416 and the top rail is interrupted unlike the 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Considering the barrel length, wouldn't it be more accurate to classify it as a Mark 18 CQB-R instead of an M4? I mean, unless someone can identify the suppressor and determine how much barrel it fits over (some suppressors simply screw onto the threads or the flash hider/muzzle brake itself, whereas others, like the OPS, Inc. 12th Model for the Mark 12 SPR, covers a good portion of the barrel when attached, making it seem shorter than it actually is). As most of the regulars here know, most M16A2s in movies have full auto lowers which would technically make them M16A3s, but we still classify them as M16A2s because that's what they're mimicking. And for all intents and purposes, the "M4" in this movie seems to be mimicking a CQB-R. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that it should be relabeled as an M4A1. This weapon is obviously an M4 that was highly customized for CQB, and not a Colt 933-PunisherDave

::I dunno if we can call it the Mark 18 CQBR, since the Mark 18 has a standard DI upper with the triangular front sight post. If anybody can identify the specific make/model of the upper receiver (because I can't), then it would be perfectly fine to re-label the weapon on the page. But what I do know for sure is that this gun is not an HK416, so it would be inappropriate to label it as such. Until we know for sure what it is (and until I see credible proof), "M4A1" is the appropriate generic description. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
:::The standard FSP on an M4 can easily be changed out with another front sight design or even just a gas block. Why would the Mark 18 be any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

::::The thing with the punisher is, he could have changed out the barrel and removed any markings, but whatever it is it is NOT an M4, at least not an off the rack version. I thought it was an HK416 after playing army of two. Certainly does look a hell of a lot like it.

:::::First of all, use "<nowiki>:</nowiki>" to separate your entries; don't bleed into Spartan's. Second, it's not an HK416. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I looked at a weapon made by Bushmaster called the Bushmaster XM-15 E2S, it is an M4 Carbine copy and the image i found had the same stock as this weapon, and to had the top stroke piston, the only difference between the movie and this image is the shorter barrel. I definitely think that the weapon used is the XM-15 E2S

I agree, I believe that it is a customized Bushmaster E2S Modular Carbine [[PunisherDave]]

== AK74U is NOT an SMG ==

Somebody put this rifle in the SMG section most likely because he played too much call of duty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== grenade launcher minimum detonation range ==

how come there is a huge stink kicked up about the use of weapons, and no body has made a section about the use of the grenade launcher in the last major fight scenes in the movie. i distinctly remember a scene where frank punches his grenade launcher through a door, and fires it into a room, where it detonates not 5 meters from where it was fired. this hardly seems accurate, as the explosion took out almost all of the occupants of the room, and yet did no harm to the punisher. -turtle

For 2 reasons. One, in all action movies, grenade launchers have NO minimum detonation range and 2...He's the freaking Punisher. He bathes in fire and washes his mouth in bullets [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:44, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
== C-More sight ==
How are we 100% sure that Castle's optic on his AR is a C-More? [[PunisherDave]]

Punisher: War Zone

2010-10-13T12:28:14Z

PunisherDave: /* M4-type weapon */

[[Image:PunisherWarZonePoster.jpg‎|thumb|right|300px]]

The following guns appear in the film:

==Pistols==
===Beretta 92FS Inox (converted to full auto)===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses twin stainless [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]] pistols with extended mags and converted to full-auto (in the comics, the [[M1911]] is Castle's pistol of choice, but it appears only briefly in the movie and is never used).

[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS Inox 9mm]]
[[Image:WarZoneBerettas.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) wielding his two [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]]s akimbo during the mansion gunfight.]]
[[Image:2996413 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires his Berettas on full auto in the recycling center.]]
[[Image:Punisher2Inox.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle's Berettas run empty.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]) holding two fresh Beretta Inoxes out to Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2inox2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle accepts the Berettas and checks the hammers.]]

=== Beretta 92SB ===
Jigsaw's thug Pittsy ([[Mark Camacho]]) carries a [[Beretta 92SB]]), fitted with what appear to be pearl grips, which is later taken by Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

[[Image:Punisher2M92F.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budiansky ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Beretta 92SB.]]

===Beretta 9000S===
Angela Donatelli ([[Julie Benz]]) keeps a [[Beretta 9000S]] for home safety, which she points at Castle, at first mistaking him for an intruder, and then recognizing him as the man who killed her husband.
[[Image:Beretta 9000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 9000S 9mm]]

[[Image:Punisher9000.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Close-up of the [[Beretta 9000S]] in Angela's ([[Julie Benz]]) hands.]]

=== Colt 1911A1 GI ===
The [[M1911|Colt 1911AI GI]] is the pistol of choice for the Punisher in the comics, but is never used in the film, only seen at the beginning being disassembled and cleaned by Frank.

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|350px|none|World War II issued Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher1911.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The [[M1911]] on Castle's gun rack.]]

===Glock 17===
Officer Saffiotti (Tony Calabretta) holds Castle up with a 3rd-Gen [[Glock 17]] near the beginning of the film. Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) does the same later.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]

[[Image:Punisher2glock.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Officer Safiotti (Tony Calabretta) points his Glock 17 at Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2glock2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Glock 17 at Castle.]]

===Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical===
As a backup for his full-auto Beretta Inoxes, Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] with a spurred hammer in the opening shootout at Gaetano Cesare's mansion.

Later, Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases another of these pistols from a gangbanger acquaintance (as part of Micro's unofficial "buy-back" program), then has it snatched away and shoved into his throat by Castle inside Micro's apartment.

[[Image:Usp_comp_tact.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical.45 ACP]][[Image:Punisher2USP.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) fires his [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] during the mansion shootout.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USP2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Punisher2USPC.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] from a gangbanger acquaintance, and checks the action. Incongruously, the post-production sound edit is off, or else the boom mike picked up Carlos ejecting an round without knowing it.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USPC2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle holding the pistol to Carlos's throat.]]

=== Makarov PM ===
During the summit with Jigsaw, one of the bodyguards accompanying Cristu Bulat ([[David Vadim]]) draws a [[Makarov PM]].

[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian '''Makarov PM''' 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the left, Bulat's bodyguard's Makarov PM is visible.]]

=== Ruger KP94 ===
During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holds a [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]).
[[Image:RugerP94.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Ruger KP94DC]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holding the [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Micro ([[Wayne Knight]]).]]
[[Image:Punishergun4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw fires a wild round with his Ruger while struggling with Frank.]]

=== Ruger Mk II ===
Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Ruger Mk II|Ruger Mark II]] pistol, among other pistols, from a fellow gangbanger, before carrying them back to Microchip.

[[Image:RugerMkIIStandard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ruger Mk II pistol with a standard heavy barrel - .22 LR]]
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Carlos examining his purchase.]]

=== SIG-Sauer P232 ===
Pittsy's son, Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]], which he points at Bulat's thugs during the summit.

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Punishergun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) holding his [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]].]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the right, Ink's SIG-Sauer P232 is visible.]]

=== Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum Revolver ===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) carries the Performance Center version of the [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] as one of his sidearms. He has at least two, one in stainless steel with extended ejector shroud, and a second with a supressed black barrel and a Knight's Armament RIS setup, flashlight, and laser. During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) relieves Frank of the weapon at gunpoint, empties four of the five rounds into Frank's bulletproof vest, then tosses the weapon back to him to "decide" how to use the last one.

[[Image:S&W500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith and Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum with extended ejector shroud]]
[[Image:WarZoneRevolver.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holds his stainless steel [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] with extended ejector shroud at ready.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2Rev2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Kac warzone revolver.jpg|none|thumb|400px|The custom black verison with laser sight carried by Castle during the final confrontation.]]

[[Image:19 300dpi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] conversing with director Lexi Alexander, holding the black version of the revolver in his hand.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|After shooting Castle once, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) checks the cylinder and sees four remaining rounds.]]

Several members of the gangbangers also carry the weapon, some standard and some with scopes.

[[Image:Magnum 50cal 500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Standard Smith & Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum]]
[[Image:Punishergrenade1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|On the other side of the door from Castle is a room full of thugs, several carrying Smith & Wesson Model 500 revolvers.]]

=== Walther P22 ===
One of the guns on Frank's gun rack is a [[Walther P22]].

[[Image:WaltherP22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Walther P22 .22 LR with stainless steel slide]]
[[Image:PunisherP22.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Submachine Guns==
===Brügger & Thomet MP-9===
During the mansion gunfight, a wounded thug crawls laboriously towards a dropped [[Steyr TMP#Brügger & Thomet MP-9|Brügger & Thomet MP-9]], while Castle is gunning down several other thugs, only for Castle to almost-casually shoot him on his way out the door, just as the thug starts to raise it.
[[Image:Mp9tmp.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Brügger & Thomet MP-9 9mm]]
[[Image:PunisherwarzoneMP9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The thug starts crawling towards the MP-9...]]
[[Image:PunisherMP9a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|...gets his hand on it...]]
[[Image:Punisherwaruzi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...and just manages to lift it before Castle drops him with two quick bullets.]]

===H&K MP5K===
In one of the film's most promoted sequences, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) draws a pair of [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]]'s from back holsters and unloads them while spinning upside down from a chandelier in the mansion gunfight. The weapons have satin nickel receivers, and the foregrips have been removed,making them true "machine pistols."

[[Image:MP5KModified.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Kock MP5K with SEF trigger group and forward handguards removed - 9mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The two MP5Ks on Castle's gun rack.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the two MP5Ks in Castle's back holsters, just before he draws them.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires the MP5Ks while spinning upside down (in a rip-off/tribute to ''[[3000 Miles to Graceland]]''.]]

===H&K MP5A2===
A [[Heckler & Koch MP5A2]] appears in Castle's armory.

[[Image:MP5.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9mm with early "slimline" forearm]]
[[Image:PunisherArmory.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MP5A2 seen in Castle's armory]]

=== H&K MP5A3 ===
One of the guards in Jigsaw's hideout carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]].

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The guard in Jigsaw's hideout.]]

=== H&K MP5SD ===
One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].

[[Image:MP5SD3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 9mm with S-E-F trigger group and Stock Extended.]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5SD.jpg|thumb|none|500px|One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].]]

==Rifles==
=== AKS-74U ===
Several of Tiberiu's Russian thugs carry [[AK-74#AK-74U|AKS-74U]] carbines during the final shootout.

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U (also referred to as the "AKSU" or 'Krinkov') - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK74U.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Russian thugs armed with AKS-74U rifles.]]

=== Beretta CX4 Storm ===
Several of the Chinese Triad members carry [[Beretta CX4 Storm]] rifles during the final shootout.
[[Image:Beretta_CX4_storm.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta CX4 Storm, available in 9x19mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher2Cx4C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Chinese Triad firing a [[Beretta CX4 Storm]].]]

===Heckler & Koch G3A3===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G3]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:HKG3A3.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

=== H&K G36C ===
Several Chinese Triads use [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifles during the final shootout.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Chinese Triad thugs carrying G36Cs]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] is visible in Castle's armory.]]

===Heckler & Koch G36K===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G36K]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:H&K-G36K.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Heckler & Koch G36K]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Heckler & Koch SL8===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]] to snipe one of the members of Maginty's gang between the eyes, then to kneecap Maginty himself.

[[Image:H&KSL8Tactical.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch SL8 Tactical Match Rifle - 5.56mm]]

[[Image:Warzonesniper8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims the [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]].]]
[[Image:Punisherwarzone l 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Publicity photo of Castle holding the SL8.]]

===Custom Bushmaster E2S Modular Carbine===

During the final assault, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) takes a custom Bushmaster E2S Modular Carbine with KAC Quad-rails, a C-More red dot optic, an M4-2000 by Advanced Armament Corp suppressor, and a short version of the [[AG36 grenade launcher]], which is really an Airsoft prop. It is referred to by the Armorer on the behind-the-scenes feature as an M4 with a short barrel.
[[Image:PunisherM4a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Frank readying his rifle]]

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his rifle]]

[[Image:Posterthe-1228447413-572.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promotional Image]]

=== [[SA80]] - L85A1/2===
Among the rifles seen on the racks in Microchip's apartment is a British [[SA80]] rifle.
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA80 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SA80 seen above Microchip's head.]]

=== SIG SG 552 ===
Several of the FBI Agents escorting Agent Ross to his meeting with Jigsaw are armed with [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.
[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2552.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FBI Agents carrying [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.]]

[[Image:Punisher2552a.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Zastava M70===
Many of the Russian gangsters used fixed stock [[Zastava M70|Zastava M70B1]]s and folding stock M70AB2s against the Chinese gang.

[[Image:Zastava M70AB2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Zastava M70AB2 folding stock rifle - 7.62x39mm]]

[[Image:Punwarak.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Shotguns==
===[[Franchi PA3]]===

When Jigsaw goes to terrorize the Donatellis, Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[Franchi PA3]] shotgun, which Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) uses to threaten the Donatellis and force Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) to surrender. When Ink drifts into a back room, Castle kills him, takes the shotgun, and later uses it to blow Pittsy's head off.

[[Image:Franchimodpa3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Franchi PA3/215.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) pointing the [[Franchi PA3]] at Angela ([[Julie Benz]]).]]
[[Image:Punishershotty1.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) pointing the Franchi while smiling at Agent Budianski.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty2.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink holding the shotgun.]]
[[Image:Punishershotty3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the shotgun on Pittsy while cradling Grace Donatelli.]]

==Other==
=== H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher ===

Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) apparently shortens a [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher]] to make it lighter and perhaps handier in close quarters. Prop wise, this is an airsoft product called the AGX made by Madbull (a grenade launcher that can be mounted on any picatinny rail equipped rifle). They have been making reference to its use in the film for some time now.
He uses it towards the end of the movie, shooting some kind of air burst grenade (it explodes in mid-air).

[[Image:ag36.jpg|thumb|none|400px|H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher(full-length)]]
[[Image:agx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Madbull AGX Grenade Launcher(airsoft)]]
[[Image:Punisher warzone violent-tsrimg.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims his M4 variant, the grenade launcher visible underneath.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle snaps the breech of the grenade launcher closed.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the grenade launcher as Castle rams it through the door to take out the gangbangers waiting for him.]]
[[Image:Punisher2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

===M203 Grenade Launcher===
After a member of the Maginty's gang is vaporized in midair, a stunned Maginty turns and sees Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding a smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]], which he then switches for his [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]]. Incongruously, the effects make the weapon seem like a guided missile launcher.

[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

[[Image:Punisher2M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]].]]

===M4X Knife===
Frank's combat/utility knife is used to perform his first kill of the movie, nearly decapitating mob boss Gaetano Cesare, before being plunged into the crown of another dining mafioso's skull.

[[Image:S2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|This is a custom piece dubbed the M4X made by Daniel M. Certo for the film. -- ZG.]]
[[Image:M4x01 add3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] holding the knife.]]

[[Category: Movie]]

Talk:Punisher: War Zone

2010-10-13T12:25:33Z

PunisherDave: /* So? M4 or not? */

This is a quote from an interview with the military advisor of the film about how he outfitted Frank

"We used weapons based on need and back-story and nothing made up. All of the Punisher’s weapons currently exist and are being used in modern combat! The Punisher originated out of Vietnam, so his primary weapon in the film is an M-4 which he would feel the most comfortable with. To that I mounted a mini grenade launcher using thermo baric grenades for point detonations. I followed that up with the most powerful revolver on the planet, a Knight’s Armament/Smith&Wesson custom Model 500 .50 cal, in a breakaway leg holster as his back-up!
We created two fully automatic Beretta 92f handguns for close quarter combat.
In the opening of the film he uses ultra reliable H&K custom MP5’s in fully automatic that he carries in the small of his back, and for speed draws a H&K USP compact .45.
I also had a custom mini 13” Bolo machete combat knife created that he carries on a leg holster for hand to hand.
The result was modern weapons used in the modern time, but in full Punisher style!"
:Not a very good advisor, is he? The Smith & Wesson 500 is the most powerful production revolver, certainly not the most powerful on the planet. The .600 Nitro Revolver made by some guy that weighs about 12 pounds is the most powerful. Sounds like he's a little too excited about his decisions. Personally, this movie looks like it will suck, but I'll give it a chance. -GM
::The Pfeifer Zeliska .600 Nitro Express revolver is more powerful but it IS NOT a "production revolver" so sorry to break to you chief and your expertise.. but SW 500 "most powerful production revolver in the world today" so the Military Advisor is right.-D
:::You are aware I'm the one who said it's athe most powerful production revolver right? He said it was the most powerful in the world, but it isn't. I said the Pfeifer Zeliska was, but it isn't a production gun. Read more carefully next time. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
: Actually, in the comics Frank Castle states he hates the M16 and M4 rifles. He also always carries a m1911 and a pump gun in his coat and has a M249 on the backseat of his Hummer.-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::For me, I might not watch this movie really because Thomas Jane isn't in it and it looks like a bad generic action movie. I like how the first one showed how the Punisher really can do things we believe, but the moment I saw the trailer of the Punisher dropping from the ceiling, and spinning around with double MP5Ks...it makes it look like the action style is trying to be John Woo, but even that is over the top. The weapon of choices they give the Punisher movie, in my opinion, doesn't fit for how the Punisher should be. I understand the M4 with the grenade launcher and even the USP as the backup, but apparently, he carries all that in one action sequence. Seems a little too much stuff to carry, but hey, I'll give this movie a chance to JUST because I have to really see it to really critize it. -Ex
:Full auto Beretta Inoxs are very tactically stupid. A S&W 500 is not a back up gun, it's a primary. You don't carry an ankle gun that can down a bear. Personally, I thought the original Punisher comics sucked ass, too "comics" like. Have you ever read a seventies comic? They are terrible. Like a bad '50s safety video. Personally I liked the "Welcome Back, Frank" story which the 2004 film was based on. Thomas Jane was going for the "descent into madness" sort of look like DeNiro in ''[[Taxi Driver]]'', which is an interesting idea (although the punisher should not be a physchopath, that's bad). Castle's attachment to 1911s was one of my favorite elements of the story. And my LEAST favorite part of the old comics was the costume. The new story made it a sweet T-shirt, this one brings out the lame ass tights. I just don't have much faith in it. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Are they INOXs or 92FS? I tried to distinguish what I thought was right on the page, but why would they switch Beretta models like that?-UW

:I want to know who this military adviser for the film is and tell him that most of his suggestions for a modern day Punisher arsenal is very stupid. Except the M4 with the GL. The S&W 500 and auto Berettas dual wielding and dual wielding MP5ks while spinning from a chandelier is very stupid and he's watched too many John Woo movies and even John Woo never had his actors spin around a chandelier like that... [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls. I can't say I agree with her vision, but I enjoyed the film for its action and cheesy performances. The 04 version was a serious film that was marred by a lot of stupid stuff and a lack of action. The 08 version was a campy attempt that didn't even try to be serious but had the brutality that the 04 movie lacked. It's sad that a film hasn't yet been made that's done the Punisher justice. I don't know how to post pictures, but put Punisher revolver into a search engine and it will bring up the sweet Knight's Armament custom piece that was made for the final fight, no matter how impractical it may be. A lot of stuff in War Zone was done simply for the sake of theatrics. -- ZG

:::''(I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls.)''
:::Well said, and not to burst anyone else's bubble but the ARMORER or Military Advisor doesn't make the final call on weapons ... EVER. It's the director. Period. I've had to bite my tongue several times (as the other armorers here can attest as well) when a Director picks a weapon that I would not have. But it's their decision to make. So stop blaming the advisors or armorers, when it's probably the director you need to yell at. Just a note! :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

: ''The Punisher '04 was plenty bloody and brutal, better constructed and better acted. Tom Jane's Frank Castle, quite frankly, would stomp mudholes right into the Jason Voorhees wannabe that Ray Stevenson either chose to portray or HAD to portray. And frankly, no amount of theatrics can act as an excuse for the absolute tripe that went down in this movie. Seemed like the man was holstering and drawing his pistols every other kill; I'm sorry, isn't he supposed to be former frickin' Special Forces? And for all of the whole "We're more faithful to the comics" crap, I'm not seeing it. I can't remember a single one of the MAX comics being as horrible as this movie ended up being. Total dreck. And I've got a few choice words for the military advisor on the movie, but I'm afraid that they're not suitable for even this little corner of the Internet.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

The theatrics, I think, were just another one of the films downfalls. I agree the 04 version was better acted. As for the construction of the films...eh, I've got too many thoughts to list. I'm glad you liked the 04 movie. The fact that both films have so many fans AND detractors just means there's so much territory still to cover, though I think the fans have been part of what tears these movies apart. I'm much more lenient on the film because I have no definitive view of the Punisher and I really have no particular need for material to come directly from the comics. I think we need to step away from the comics and focus on what makes a good movie, instead. Though I was just thinking earlier that War Zone was so goofy and flamboyant, if they were going to drop the Punisher into the Marvel Universe with the likes of Spiderman and Iron Man, this would pretty much be the Punisher I would expect them to use.
:^Do we have comments from a film maker here? Please comment more. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==They destroyed [[The Punisher]]==

The advisor said that the guns are full punisher style! Bullshit! they ruined the whole thing like the dropping from the ceiling with to SMGs part. And the real punisher doesn't use extremely modern looking weapons and dress up like that! This movie might have lots of action and all that but the style of the punisher is gone. The 1911s are a trademark of Frank Castle, so to Lionsgate, bring Thomas Jane back or the next Punisher suffers!-GunnutHk

:Thomas Jane was completely onboard for the second Punisher movie, but when the producers took too long getting a script up and changing actors, he decided to drop out. I think this movie would have been better if Thomas Jane was in it. And speaking of the 1911, we do see in the movie the Punisher taking a 1911, disasemebling it and cleaning it, but never use it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

:Agreed, Thomas Jane's take on Castle was far superior to Ray Stevenson's (no diss to Ray, though, as he's one of my favorite actors). And I also agree that the weapon selections (save for the M4A1, the SL8, and the MP5Ks) sucked. They should have given him 1911s instead of Beretta 92s or that 500 and put an M203 on the M4 instead of that AGX. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi everybody i was just wonering wher did he keep his usp compact?

the Punisher seems like a Vigilante slowly going down hill then a action hero rex095

Better than the Thomas Jane one there reason is Castle has no super powers but he has one that could be a super power his incredible pain tolerance he just doesn't care about pain he is a pure killing machine no regrets whatsoever and that's why this movie nailed it, Jane was a pussy with his t shirt and getting beaten all the time in this movie even though he got the shit kicked out of him by Jigsaws brother he didn't even flinch he didn't hesitate to kill micro cause that was what he had to do Punisher doesn't care about life if it can't be saved he wont try

:The Jane Punisher getting the shit kicked out of him by the Russian was straight out of the comics and very faithful to how it played on film. The fight with LBJ was frankly anemic, and boring. Also, if he doesn't care about a life that he knows can not be saved, then why the hell did he tell the ex-gangbanger who was missing limbs and had an axe in his chest not to die on him? That is a very un-Punisher thing to say.

:And that one shot in the 2004 film of Jane shooting a thug lying wounded on the ground without given him any notice or care, says a lot more about the character than killing 50 criminals in one scene.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

:My weigh in on the Russian fight is that I just wasn't a big fan of Castle getting beat up. I didn't like how it was done in the comic and the movie recreation was just so-so. If you've ever played the PS2 or Xbox Punisher game, that scenario plays out with Frank kicking the crap out of the Russian and tossing him out a window. I'd have liked that better. As for the injured ex-gangbanger, to me that showed a bit of character development from Frank, who had previously shown his distaste for the man, but after working with him had come to view him as an ally. This is something we'd probably never see in the comic, and I liked it. I did really like the shootout in the 04 Punisher, especially when he finished off the wounded guy, but I also felt we got the same type of brutal Punisher mindset when Stevenson threw McGinty onto an iron fence before jumping down on his neck. What I liked the most about the Dolph Lundgren and Ray Stevenson films is that they showed that the Punisher can viciously murder criminals and still be a GOOD GUY without dealing with all that anti-hero moral conundrum bullcrap. -- ZG

::Regarding the gangbanger thing, you may have liked but it was a completely out of character thing for him to say, even to an ally. They went for a cliched moment that was out of character.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

::Yeah, I understand. And I can see how a lot of people wouldn't have liked it. I guess I just like the idea of Castle being an actual good guy sometimes rather than a completely desensitized psycho, which I know is what he's kind of supposed to be. I like a balance, I think it's what makes him endearing as a hero that does very brutal things. -- ZG

Also, scenes being constantly neonlighted got pretty annoying fast. I'm sure the idea sounds cool in paper, but is quite the opposite in practice. -AlkoTanko

Ok, tho i might not be the biggest military buff, i did a few years in the royal marines, but i do know comics and i know the punisher, bitch all you like about the stupid MP5 cieling deal , cus that was retarded, but this is garthe ennis's marvel max punisher, the punisher comics every tru punisher fan swears by. The 2004 tom jane job was based loosely on welcome back frank and punisher year one. Garth ennis wrote welcome back frank as a tester to get punisher made into a serious adult title and he self proclaimed hating the stupid bits in the comic such as the russian. Now you can say that tom janes version was any less tactially aware than stevensons, i mean he took a 40mm lancher into a nightclub and didnt even cover up his arms. Im not sayin i dont like the 2004 version, but it wasnt the punisher. Just angry op the movie, wrong actor, wrong location and a shity villain. So im gonna defend stevensons monosyallabic rough house, and dont forget kiddies, this is based on a comic book movie --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 03:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, anyone who has read Punisher knows he loses a lot of fights, it creates dramatic tension. If he won hands down every fight it would get boring, there needs to be a challenge. That's why every one of the Ennis stories had an epic fight with someone of Frank's aptitude. Second, Frank rarely gives a shit when people die, especially gangbangers reformed or not. The only one in recent memory was O'Brian. Third, they screwed up every villain from the comic. Pitsy was supposed to be an old tough bastard with a "Fuck you you fuckin fuck!" attitude, in this he was more a tag-along fuck-tard. McGinty was a torture loving psycho out for money, not a meth addict free-runner looking for a fun time. Tiberiu Bulat was an irredeemable rapist war criminal, not a kindly old man who had rules who you could make a deal wit. Where should i start with Jigsaw? That being said Stevenson was a pretty good Castle, and Wayne Knight was a pretty good Micro. the movie around them was what sucked, the over the top Jigsaw, the ceiling shooting, and Nicky Cavella the undercover cop instead of the maniac from the comic ruined this film. It talked a good game in the locker room but was shaky when it was time to put on the cleats.

What they should've done was just adapt some Punisher: Max stories, seriously, those're awesome. In fact, wouldn't it be great if directors could just get their head around the fact that they could simply take the comic DIRECTLY into a movie? Of course, then you have their egos to deal with, and then all hell breaks loose... I noticed someone said above that Frank doesn't like the M16/M4. This is true, but he actually does use it, because he likes the M203. And speaking of firearms, would a suppressor on a .50 cal revolver even do anything? I mean, don't revolvers have that gap between the barrel and cylinder, making supporessors useless besides hiding muzzle flash? And another thing; he puts a scope onto the smaller 500, but doesn't put one onto the longer 500, which has a picattiny rail built into it just for scopes? Holy shit, that's just sad. Will there ever be a movie that has a bunch of firearms, but doesn't screw them all up? Huh...you know, imagine that, if some director asks for advice from a site like this to make sure he knows what the hell he's doing. Now that I think about it, why don't the armorers ever tell them about that stuff? Whatever...--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 02:36, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

::I've stated my opinion before that I'm not hooked on having movies made directly from the comics, though I certainly understand the desire. I think the problem most of us have isn't the use of an original storyline, but the fact that filmmakers take characters from the universe that we establish as canon, and then change them for the movie. I don't care much about about his weapon choices, I just like the guns in general. I don't have much to gripe about his tactics as long as he's killing baddies. It seems like we're all looking for something different from Frank. -- ZG

"would a suppressor on a .50 cal revolver even do anything? I mean, don't revolvers have that gap between the barrel and cylinder, making supporessors useless besides hiding muzzle flash?"-- Zblayde|Zblayde

On a normal revolver, no. It is possible to build a revolver tight enough to be effectively suppressed. For an example, look up the Nagant R-1895m though from what I understand the way that the Nagant works is quite different from an ordinary revolver.
One of the biggest advantages to suppressing a revolver is that you don't leave behind any shells.

==Mini Crossbow==
In the beginning of the movie, the Punisher uses a very small fold-out crossbow to take down a guard at the docks. Is this even a real weapon?

- Wade Wilson

Before the weapon is unfolded it has similar shape and structure of a glock pistol or a Sig Sauer

it could be the same model but customized

[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]

=unknowns=
'''[moved from main page]''' --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 06:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
== Mircrochip's gun racks ==
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Right side, very top is a (very) shorty G3. -[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:20, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

:it is a airsot replica produced by Tokyo Marui model company labled the g3SAS

::Yep, correct, that's a G3 SAS from Tokyo Marui. Coincidentally, I held one not too long ago (although the one I held was fitted with a fixed stock). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Punisher2gunrack2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

there is an L86 LSW
(nope sorry it's a L85a2)
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Guns in this pic?==
[[Image:Pwz lair.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Steyr TMP]]?

*m1911 pistol
*mp5
*beretta 92 two tone( maybe a elite II)
*m4a1
*rare.22 type suppresed pistol
== Unknowns ==

[[Image:Punishergun5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
I see the MP5Ks with removed foregrips, Springfield XDs, M1911s and a full size MP5.-[[User:GunnutHk|GunnutHk]]

Actually I think the one on the bottom right is a Smith & Wesson M&P.

[[Image:Punishergun7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
::probaly a Charter Arms Snub

i don't think charter makes a hammerless.
[[Image:Punishergun8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Micro/Mini Uzi? That looks like an Uzi stock
:It's a Smith & Wesson M76. You can see the stock and the hand grip. If your smart.
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Ruger Mk II?
[[Image:RugerMkIIStandard.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ruger Mk II pistol with a standard heavy barrel - .22 LR]].
looks like it. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:31, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

that is a 44 or 357 automag-Doomsayer64

==Revenge or Punishment?==

Okay, the Punisher punishes people right? He began punishing them as a ''form'' of revenge, but still, why would they write "Vengeance has a new name" on the dvd cover? That's kind of inaccurate...does anyone agree? --[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 14:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I think they meant that vengeance has a new name which is Frank Castle

I disagree. There was alreay a Punisher film made. I think they meant Ray Stevenson, since he's replacing Thomas Jane as the Punisher.
As a side note, I believe TJ's Punisher could kick the crap outta RS's Punisher. Agree or disagree?

== So? M4 or not? ==

Reading the comments, I never found a streight answer. Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy. So, when the armourer says 'M4' I doubt he means it. It's definatly an HK416. Please change it. I beg of you.

:Tell me your evidence that it is an HK416. Unfortunately none of the screen caps on the page gives us the lower receiver. It could be a Colt M933, the shorter barrel version of the M4 with a flat top. So point out please how you've come to the conclusion that it's a 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Xi5mYXi0g watch the behind the scenes that talks all about the weapons. You get a pretty good look at the whole rifle the armorer holds up for you. You can see that the top rails are interrupted unlike the 416 which has an uninterrupted top rail. You can also see that on the KAC quad rail system, the holes are big circles instead of small slits. So this is in fact an M4 system with a short 10in barrel, but it could be called the M933 because of the shorter barrel. I know the lighting makes it harder to see the rails and the receiver and on top of that in the semi-dark you can almost see an uninterrupted top rail. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

And what do you mean "Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy." ? Someone on the discussion calling the M4 an AK? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::No, he means "like when we see on other pages people calling a gun the "AK-47" when in reality it is a Norinco Type-56", i.e. the example of technically mis-identifying a gun as a generic type when at IMFDB, we ID as close to the real platform as possible. That's all.

:::I have this movie on Blu Ray, and the Punisher's rifle is not an HK416. The lower receiver lacks H&K markings, and the production model 416 does not have a tan-colored "LE" six-position buttstock. The upper receiver make is harder to identify, but the quad-rail is definitely not the same type that comes standard on the 416. That being said said, this does appear to be a short-stroke piston upper, which is the same type of system used by the 416, but H&K is no longer the only company manufacturing such weapons.

:::Also, yes, it is true that the armorer might just be using "M4" as a generic term, but I don't think so. Actually, in the past few years, we've had a problem on IMFDB where everyone seems to think that any fancy-looking AR-type weapon which lacks a front sight post is an HK416 (I remember when the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page used to say that the Mark 12 Mod 0s in that movie were HK416s). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

:I remember when people also assume a fancy looking AR-15 to be a Barret M468 or the REC-7 as it is called now. Oh MT, how can you tell if it is using a stroke piston upper? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his M4A1]]
The Magazine on the 416 is shaped slightly differently than the M4. Also, it being fitted with the AG36 Grenade Launcher and not the M203. This makes it look like the HK416.

:I'm sorry, but you CLEARLY have no clue here. A 416 can take regular AR mags, and vice-versa. And the AG36 can be mounted to ANY AR model rifle (there are pictures of Canadian SF units using AG36s on their C7s and C8s). Furthermore, as our page says, the AG36 used on this movie was actually a Madbull AGX airsoft replica. This is not an HK416; the receiver has no H&K markings (when I watch my Blu-Ray copy), and the quad-rail handguard is clearly not the HK-style. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

And as I said earlier, if you go to the link to watch the special features of the weapons by the armorer, he holds it up and you can see the quad-rail handguard and the holes are not the same as the 416 and the top rail is interrupted unlike the 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Considering the barrel length, wouldn't it be more accurate to classify it as a Mark 18 CQB-R instead of an M4? I mean, unless someone can identify the suppressor and determine how much barrel it fits over (some suppressors simply screw onto the threads or the flash hider/muzzle brake itself, whereas others, like the OPS, Inc. 12th Model for the Mark 12 SPR, covers a good portion of the barrel when attached, making it seem shorter than it actually is). As most of the regulars here know, most M16A2s in movies have full auto lowers which would technically make them M16A3s, but we still classify them as M16A2s because that's what they're mimicking. And for all intents and purposes, the "M4" in this movie seems to be mimicking a CQB-R. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that it should be relabeled as an M4A1. This weapon is obviously an M4 that was highly customized for CQB, and not a Colt 933-PunisherDave

::I dunno if we can call it the Mark 18 CQBR, since the Mark 18 has a standard DI upper with the triangular front sight post. If anybody can identify the specific make/model of the upper receiver (because I can't), then it would be perfectly fine to re-label the weapon on the page. But what I do know for sure is that this gun is not an HK416, so it would be inappropriate to label it as such. Until we know for sure what it is (and until I see credible proof), "M4A1" is the appropriate generic description. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
:::The standard FSP on an M4 can easily be changed out with another front sight design or even just a gas block. Why would the Mark 18 be any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

::::The thing with the punisher is, he could have changed out the barrel and removed any markings, but whatever it is it is NOT an M4, at least not an off the rack version. I thought it was an HK416 after playing army of two. Certainly does look a hell of a lot like it.

:::::First of all, use "<nowiki>:</nowiki>" to separate your entries; don't bleed into Spartan's. Second, it's not an HK416. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I looked at a weapon made by Bushmaster called the Bushmaster XM-15 E2S, it is an M4 Carbine copy and the image i found had the same stock as this weapon, and to had the top stroke piston, the only difference between the movie and this image is the shorter barrel. I definitely think that the weapon used is the XM-15 E2S

I agree, I believe that it is a customized Bushmaster E2S Modular Carbine [[PunisherDave]]

== AK74U is NOT an SMG ==

Somebody put this rifle in the SMG section most likely because he played too much call of duty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== grenade launcher minimum detonation range ==

how come there is a huge stink kicked up about the use of weapons, and no body has made a section about the use of the grenade launcher in the last major fight scenes in the movie. i distinctly remember a scene where frank punches his grenade launcher through a door, and fires it into a room, where it detonates not 5 meters from where it was fired. this hardly seems accurate, as the explosion took out almost all of the occupants of the room, and yet did no harm to the punisher. -turtle

For 2 reasons. One, in all action movies, grenade launchers have NO minimum detonation range and 2...He's the freaking Punisher. He bathes in fire and washes his mouth in bullets [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:44, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Punisher: War Zone

2010-10-13T12:19:48Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta 92SB */

[[Image:PunisherWarZonePoster.jpg‎|thumb|right|300px]]

The following guns appear in the film:

==Pistols==
===Beretta 92FS Inox (converted to full auto)===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses twin stainless [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]] pistols with extended mags and converted to full-auto (in the comics, the [[M1911]] is Castle's pistol of choice, but it appears only briefly in the movie and is never used).

[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS Inox 9mm]]
[[Image:WarZoneBerettas.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) wielding his two [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]]s akimbo during the mansion gunfight.]]
[[Image:2996413 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires his Berettas on full auto in the recycling center.]]
[[Image:Punisher2Inox.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle's Berettas run empty.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]) holding two fresh Beretta Inoxes out to Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2inox2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle accepts the Berettas and checks the hammers.]]

=== Beretta 92SB ===
Jigsaw's thug Pittsy ([[Mark Camacho]]) carries a [[Beretta 92SB]]), fitted with what appear to be pearl grips, which is later taken by Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

[[Image:Punisher2M92F.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budiansky ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Beretta 92SB.]]

===Beretta 9000S===
Angela Donatelli ([[Julie Benz]]) keeps a [[Beretta 9000S]] for home safety, which she points at Castle, at first mistaking him for an intruder, and then recognizing him as the man who killed her husband.
[[Image:Beretta 9000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 9000S 9mm]]

[[Image:Punisher9000.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Close-up of the [[Beretta 9000S]] in Angela's ([[Julie Benz]]) hands.]]

=== Colt 1911A1 GI ===
The [[M1911|Colt 1911AI GI]] is the pistol of choice for the Punisher in the comics, but is never used in the film, only seen at the beginning being disassembled and cleaned by Frank.

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|350px|none|World War II issued Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher1911.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The [[M1911]] on Castle's gun rack.]]

===Glock 17===
Officer Saffiotti (Tony Calabretta) holds Castle up with a 3rd-Gen [[Glock 17]] near the beginning of the film. Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) does the same later.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]

[[Image:Punisher2glock.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Officer Safiotti (Tony Calabretta) points his Glock 17 at Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2glock2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Glock 17 at Castle.]]

===Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical===
As a backup for his full-auto Beretta Inoxes, Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] with a spurred hammer in the opening shootout at Gaetano Cesare's mansion.

Later, Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases another of these pistols from a gangbanger acquaintance (as part of Micro's unofficial "buy-back" program), then has it snatched away and shoved into his throat by Castle inside Micro's apartment.

[[Image:Usp_comp_tact.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical.45 ACP]][[Image:Punisher2USP.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) fires his [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] during the mansion shootout.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USP2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Punisher2USPC.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] from a gangbanger acquaintance, and checks the action. Incongruously, the post-production sound edit is off, or else the boom mike picked up Carlos ejecting an round without knowing it.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USPC2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle holding the pistol to Carlos's throat.]]

=== Makarov PM ===
During the summit with Jigsaw, one of the bodyguards accompanying Cristu Bulat ([[David Vadim]]) draws a [[Makarov PM]].

[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian '''Makarov PM''' 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the left, Bulat's bodyguard's Makarov PM is visible.]]

=== Ruger KP94 ===
During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holds a [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]).
[[Image:RugerP94.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Ruger KP94DC]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holding the [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Micro ([[Wayne Knight]]).]]
[[Image:Punishergun4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw fires a wild round with his Ruger while struggling with Frank.]]

=== Ruger Mk II ===
Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Ruger Mk II|Ruger Mark II]] pistol, among other pistols, from a fellow gangbanger, before carrying them back to Microchip.

[[Image:RugerMkIIStandard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ruger Mk II pistol with a standard heavy barrel - .22 LR]]
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Carlos examining his purchase.]]

=== SIG-Sauer P232 ===
Pittsy's son, Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]], which he points at Bulat's thugs during the summit.

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Punishergun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) holding his [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]].]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the right, Ink's SIG-Sauer P232 is visible.]]

=== Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum Revolver ===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) carries the Performance Center version of the [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] as one of his sidearms. He has at least two, one in stainless steel with extended ejector shroud, and a second with a supressed black barrel and a Knight's Armament RIS setup, flashlight, and laser. During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) relieves Frank of the weapon at gunpoint, empties four of the five rounds into Frank's bulletproof vest, then tosses the weapon back to him to "decide" how to use the last one.

[[Image:S&W500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith and Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum with extended ejector shroud]]
[[Image:WarZoneRevolver.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holds his stainless steel [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] with extended ejector shroud at ready.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2Rev2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Kac warzone revolver.jpg|none|thumb|400px|The custom black verison with laser sight carried by Castle during the final confrontation.]]

[[Image:19 300dpi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] conversing with director Lexi Alexander, holding the black version of the revolver in his hand.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|After shooting Castle once, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) checks the cylinder and sees four remaining rounds.]]

Several members of the gangbangers also carry the weapon, some standard and some with scopes.

[[Image:Magnum 50cal 500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Standard Smith & Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum]]
[[Image:Punishergrenade1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|On the other side of the door from Castle is a room full of thugs, several carrying Smith & Wesson Model 500 revolvers.]]

=== Walther P22 ===
One of the guns on Frank's gun rack is a [[Walther P22]].

[[Image:WaltherP22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Walther P22 .22 LR with stainless steel slide]]
[[Image:PunisherP22.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Submachine Guns==
===Brügger & Thomet MP-9===
During the mansion gunfight, a wounded thug crawls laboriously towards a dropped [[Steyr TMP#Brügger & Thomet MP-9|Brügger & Thomet MP-9]], while Castle is gunning down several other thugs, only for Castle to almost-casually shoot him on his way out the door, just as the thug starts to raise it.
[[Image:Mp9tmp.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Brügger & Thomet MP-9 9mm]]
[[Image:PunisherwarzoneMP9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The thug starts crawling towards the MP-9...]]
[[Image:PunisherMP9a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|...gets his hand on it...]]
[[Image:Punisherwaruzi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...and just manages to lift it before Castle drops him with two quick bullets.]]

===H&K MP5K===
In one of the film's most promoted sequences, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) draws a pair of [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]]'s from back holsters and unloads them while spinning upside down from a chandelier in the mansion gunfight. The weapons have satin nickel receivers, and the foregrips have been removed,making them true "machine pistols."

[[Image:MP5KModified.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Kock MP5K with SEF trigger group and forward handguards removed - 9mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The two MP5Ks on Castle's gun rack.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the two MP5Ks in Castle's back holsters, just before he draws them.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires the MP5Ks while spinning upside down (in a rip-off/tribute to ''[[3000 Miles to Graceland]]''.]]

===H&K MP5A2===
A [[Heckler & Koch MP5A2]] appears in Castle's armory.

[[Image:MP5.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9mm with early "slimline" forearm]]
[[Image:PunisherArmory.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MP5A2 seen in Castle's armory]]

=== H&K MP5A3 ===
One of the guards in Jigsaw's hideout carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]].

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The guard in Jigsaw's hideout.]]

=== H&K MP5SD ===
One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].

[[Image:MP5SD3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 9mm with S-E-F trigger group and Stock Extended.]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5SD.jpg|thumb|none|500px|One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].]]

==Rifles==
=== AKS-74U ===
Several of Tiberiu's Russian thugs carry [[AK-74#AK-74U|AKS-74U]] carbines during the final shootout.

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U (also referred to as the "AKSU" or 'Krinkov') - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK74U.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Russian thugs armed with AKS-74U rifles.]]

=== Beretta CX4 Storm ===
Several of the Chinese Triad members carry [[Beretta CX4 Storm]] rifles during the final shootout.
[[Image:Beretta_CX4_storm.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta CX4 Storm, available in 9x19mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher2Cx4C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Chinese Triad firing a [[Beretta CX4 Storm]].]]

===Heckler & Koch G3A3===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G3]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:HKG3A3.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

=== H&K G36C ===
Several Chinese Triads use [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifles during the final shootout.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Chinese Triad thugs carrying G36Cs]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] is visible in Castle's armory.]]

===Heckler & Koch G36K===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G36K]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:H&K-G36K.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Heckler & Koch G36K]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Heckler & Koch SL8===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]] to snipe one of the members of Maginty's gang between the eyes, then to kneecap Maginty himself.

[[Image:H&KSL8Tactical.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch SL8 Tactical Match Rifle - 5.56mm]]

[[Image:Warzonesniper8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims the [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]].]]
[[Image:Punisherwarzone l 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Publicity photo of Castle holding the SL8.]]

===M4-type weapon===

During the final assault, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) takes a custom [[M4A1]]-type carbine with KAC Quad-rails, a C-More red dot optic, an M4-2000 by Advanced Armament Corp suppressor, and a short version of the [[AG36 grenade launcher]], which is really an Airsoft prop. It is referred to by the Armorer on the behind-the-scenes feature as an M4 with a short barrel. It appears to be a short-stroke piston upper of some type, but IMFDB has been unable to identify the specific make/model. (It is NOT a [[Heckler & Koch HK416]] as some have speculated.)

[[Image:PunisherM4a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Frank readying his rifle]]

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his rifle]]

[[Image:Posterthe-1228447413-572.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promotional Image]]

=== [[SA80]] - L85A1/2===
Among the rifles seen on the racks in Microchip's apartment is a British [[SA80]] rifle.
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA80 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SA80 seen above Microchip's head.]]

=== SIG SG 552 ===
Several of the FBI Agents escorting Agent Ross to his meeting with Jigsaw are armed with [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.
[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2552.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FBI Agents carrying [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.]]

[[Image:Punisher2552a.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Zastava M70===
Many of the Russian gangsters used fixed stock [[Zastava M70|Zastava M70B1]]s and folding stock M70AB2s against the Chinese gang.

[[Image:Zastava M70AB2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Zastava M70AB2 folding stock rifle - 7.62x39mm]]

[[Image:Punwarak.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Shotguns==
===[[Franchi PA3]]===

When Jigsaw goes to terrorize the Donatellis, Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[Franchi PA3]] shotgun, which Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) uses to threaten the Donatellis and force Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) to surrender. When Ink drifts into a back room, Castle kills him, takes the shotgun, and later uses it to blow Pittsy's head off.

[[Image:Franchimodpa3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Franchi PA3/215.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) pointing the [[Franchi PA3]] at Angela ([[Julie Benz]]).]]
[[Image:Punishershotty1.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) pointing the Franchi while smiling at Agent Budianski.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty2.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink holding the shotgun.]]
[[Image:Punishershotty3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the shotgun on Pittsy while cradling Grace Donatelli.]]

==Other==
=== H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher ===

Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) apparently shortens a [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher]] to make it lighter and perhaps handier in close quarters. Prop wise, this is an airsoft product called the AGX made by Madbull (a grenade launcher that can be mounted on any picatinny rail equipped rifle). They have been making reference to its use in the film for some time now.
He uses it towards the end of the movie, shooting some kind of air burst grenade (it explodes in mid-air).

[[Image:ag36.jpg|thumb|none|400px|H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher(full-length)]]
[[Image:agx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Madbull AGX Grenade Launcher(airsoft)]]
[[Image:Punisher warzone violent-tsrimg.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims his M4 variant, the grenade launcher visible underneath.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle snaps the breech of the grenade launcher closed.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the grenade launcher as Castle rams it through the door to take out the gangbangers waiting for him.]]
[[Image:Punisher2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

===M203 Grenade Launcher===
After a member of the Maginty's gang is vaporized in midair, a stunned Maginty turns and sees Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding a smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]], which he then switches for his [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]]. Incongruously, the effects make the weapon seem like a guided missile launcher.

[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

[[Image:Punisher2M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]].]]

===M4X Knife===
Frank's combat/utility knife is used to perform his first kill of the movie, nearly decapitating mob boss Gaetano Cesare, before being plunged into the crown of another dining mafioso's skull.

[[Image:S2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|This is a custom piece dubbed the M4X made by Daniel M. Certo for the film. -- ZG.]]
[[Image:M4x01 add3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] holding the knife.]]

[[Category: Movie]]

Punisher: War Zone

2010-10-13T12:19:01Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta M92SB */

[[Image:PunisherWarZonePoster.jpg‎|thumb|right|300px]]

The following guns appear in the film:

==Pistols==
===Beretta 92FS Inox (converted to full auto)===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses twin stainless [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]] pistols with extended mags and converted to full-auto (in the comics, the [[M1911]] is Castle's pistol of choice, but it appears only briefly in the movie and is never used).

[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS Inox 9mm]]
[[Image:WarZoneBerettas.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) wielding his two [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]]s akimbo during the mansion gunfight.]]
[[Image:2996413 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires his Berettas on full auto in the recycling center.]]
[[Image:Punisher2Inox.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle's Berettas run empty.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]) holding two fresh Beretta Inoxes out to Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2inox2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle accepts the Berettas and checks the hammers.]]

=== Beretta M92SB ===
Jigsaw's thug Pittsy ([[Mark Camacho]]) carries a [[Beretta 92SB]]), fitted with what appear to be pearl grips, which is later taken by Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

[[Image:Punisher2M92F.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budiansky ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Beretta 92FS.]]

===Beretta 9000S===
Angela Donatelli ([[Julie Benz]]) keeps a [[Beretta 9000S]] for home safety, which she points at Castle, at first mistaking him for an intruder, and then recognizing him as the man who killed her husband.
[[Image:Beretta 9000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 9000S 9mm]]

[[Image:Punisher9000.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Close-up of the [[Beretta 9000S]] in Angela's ([[Julie Benz]]) hands.]]

=== Colt 1911A1 GI ===
The [[M1911|Colt 1911AI GI]] is the pistol of choice for the Punisher in the comics, but is never used in the film, only seen at the beginning being disassembled and cleaned by Frank.

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|350px|none|World War II issued Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher1911.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The [[M1911]] on Castle's gun rack.]]

===Glock 17===
Officer Saffiotti (Tony Calabretta) holds Castle up with a 3rd-Gen [[Glock 17]] near the beginning of the film. Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) does the same later.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]

[[Image:Punisher2glock.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Officer Safiotti (Tony Calabretta) points his Glock 17 at Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2glock2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Glock 17 at Castle.]]

===Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical===
As a backup for his full-auto Beretta Inoxes, Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] with a spurred hammer in the opening shootout at Gaetano Cesare's mansion.

Later, Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases another of these pistols from a gangbanger acquaintance (as part of Micro's unofficial "buy-back" program), then has it snatched away and shoved into his throat by Castle inside Micro's apartment.

[[Image:Usp_comp_tact.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical.45 ACP]][[Image:Punisher2USP.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) fires his [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] during the mansion shootout.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USP2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Punisher2USPC.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] from a gangbanger acquaintance, and checks the action. Incongruously, the post-production sound edit is off, or else the boom mike picked up Carlos ejecting an round without knowing it.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USPC2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle holding the pistol to Carlos's throat.]]

=== Makarov PM ===
During the summit with Jigsaw, one of the bodyguards accompanying Cristu Bulat ([[David Vadim]]) draws a [[Makarov PM]].

[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian '''Makarov PM''' 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the left, Bulat's bodyguard's Makarov PM is visible.]]

=== Ruger KP94 ===
During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holds a [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]).
[[Image:RugerP94.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Ruger KP94DC]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holding the [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Micro ([[Wayne Knight]]).]]
[[Image:Punishergun4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw fires a wild round with his Ruger while struggling with Frank.]]

=== Ruger Mk II ===
Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Ruger Mk II|Ruger Mark II]] pistol, among other pistols, from a fellow gangbanger, before carrying them back to Microchip.

[[Image:RugerMkIIStandard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ruger Mk II pistol with a standard heavy barrel - .22 LR]]
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Carlos examining his purchase.]]

=== SIG-Sauer P232 ===
Pittsy's son, Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]], which he points at Bulat's thugs during the summit.

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Punishergun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) holding his [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]].]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the right, Ink's SIG-Sauer P232 is visible.]]

=== Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum Revolver ===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) carries the Performance Center version of the [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] as one of his sidearms. He has at least two, one in stainless steel with extended ejector shroud, and a second with a supressed black barrel and a Knight's Armament RIS setup, flashlight, and laser. During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) relieves Frank of the weapon at gunpoint, empties four of the five rounds into Frank's bulletproof vest, then tosses the weapon back to him to "decide" how to use the last one.

[[Image:S&W500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith and Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum with extended ejector shroud]]
[[Image:WarZoneRevolver.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holds his stainless steel [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] with extended ejector shroud at ready.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2Rev2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Kac warzone revolver.jpg|none|thumb|400px|The custom black verison with laser sight carried by Castle during the final confrontation.]]

[[Image:19 300dpi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] conversing with director Lexi Alexander, holding the black version of the revolver in his hand.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|After shooting Castle once, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) checks the cylinder and sees four remaining rounds.]]

Several members of the gangbangers also carry the weapon, some standard and some with scopes.

[[Image:Magnum 50cal 500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Standard Smith & Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum]]
[[Image:Punishergrenade1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|On the other side of the door from Castle is a room full of thugs, several carrying Smith & Wesson Model 500 revolvers.]]

=== Walther P22 ===
One of the guns on Frank's gun rack is a [[Walther P22]].

[[Image:WaltherP22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Walther P22 .22 LR with stainless steel slide]]
[[Image:PunisherP22.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Submachine Guns==
===Brügger & Thomet MP-9===
During the mansion gunfight, a wounded thug crawls laboriously towards a dropped [[Steyr TMP#Brügger & Thomet MP-9|Brügger & Thomet MP-9]], while Castle is gunning down several other thugs, only for Castle to almost-casually shoot him on his way out the door, just as the thug starts to raise it.
[[Image:Mp9tmp.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Brügger & Thomet MP-9 9mm]]
[[Image:PunisherwarzoneMP9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The thug starts crawling towards the MP-9...]]
[[Image:PunisherMP9a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|...gets his hand on it...]]
[[Image:Punisherwaruzi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...and just manages to lift it before Castle drops him with two quick bullets.]]

===H&K MP5K===
In one of the film's most promoted sequences, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) draws a pair of [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]]'s from back holsters and unloads them while spinning upside down from a chandelier in the mansion gunfight. The weapons have satin nickel receivers, and the foregrips have been removed,making them true "machine pistols."

[[Image:MP5KModified.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Kock MP5K with SEF trigger group and forward handguards removed - 9mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The two MP5Ks on Castle's gun rack.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the two MP5Ks in Castle's back holsters, just before he draws them.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires the MP5Ks while spinning upside down (in a rip-off/tribute to ''[[3000 Miles to Graceland]]''.]]

===H&K MP5A2===
A [[Heckler & Koch MP5A2]] appears in Castle's armory.

[[Image:MP5.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9mm with early "slimline" forearm]]
[[Image:PunisherArmory.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MP5A2 seen in Castle's armory]]

=== H&K MP5A3 ===
One of the guards in Jigsaw's hideout carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]].

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The guard in Jigsaw's hideout.]]

=== H&K MP5SD ===
One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].

[[Image:MP5SD3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 9mm with S-E-F trigger group and Stock Extended.]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5SD.jpg|thumb|none|500px|One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].]]

==Rifles==
=== AKS-74U ===
Several of Tiberiu's Russian thugs carry [[AK-74#AK-74U|AKS-74U]] carbines during the final shootout.

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U (also referred to as the "AKSU" or 'Krinkov') - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK74U.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Russian thugs armed with AKS-74U rifles.]]

=== Beretta CX4 Storm ===
Several of the Chinese Triad members carry [[Beretta CX4 Storm]] rifles during the final shootout.
[[Image:Beretta_CX4_storm.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta CX4 Storm, available in 9x19mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher2Cx4C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Chinese Triad firing a [[Beretta CX4 Storm]].]]

===Heckler & Koch G3A3===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G3]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:HKG3A3.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

=== H&K G36C ===
Several Chinese Triads use [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifles during the final shootout.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Chinese Triad thugs carrying G36Cs]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] is visible in Castle's armory.]]

===Heckler & Koch G36K===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G36K]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:H&K-G36K.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Heckler & Koch G36K]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Heckler & Koch SL8===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]] to snipe one of the members of Maginty's gang between the eyes, then to kneecap Maginty himself.

[[Image:H&KSL8Tactical.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch SL8 Tactical Match Rifle - 5.56mm]]

[[Image:Warzonesniper8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims the [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]].]]
[[Image:Punisherwarzone l 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Publicity photo of Castle holding the SL8.]]

===M4-type weapon===

During the final assault, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) takes a custom [[M4A1]]-type carbine with KAC Quad-rails, a C-More red dot optic, an M4-2000 by Advanced Armament Corp suppressor, and a short version of the [[AG36 grenade launcher]], which is really an Airsoft prop. It is referred to by the Armorer on the behind-the-scenes feature as an M4 with a short barrel. It appears to be a short-stroke piston upper of some type, but IMFDB has been unable to identify the specific make/model. (It is NOT a [[Heckler & Koch HK416]] as some have speculated.)

[[Image:PunisherM4a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Frank readying his rifle]]

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his rifle]]

[[Image:Posterthe-1228447413-572.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promotional Image]]

=== [[SA80]] - L85A1/2===
Among the rifles seen on the racks in Microchip's apartment is a British [[SA80]] rifle.
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA80 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SA80 seen above Microchip's head.]]

=== SIG SG 552 ===
Several of the FBI Agents escorting Agent Ross to his meeting with Jigsaw are armed with [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.
[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2552.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FBI Agents carrying [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.]]

[[Image:Punisher2552a.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Zastava M70===
Many of the Russian gangsters used fixed stock [[Zastava M70|Zastava M70B1]]s and folding stock M70AB2s against the Chinese gang.

[[Image:Zastava M70AB2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Zastava M70AB2 folding stock rifle - 7.62x39mm]]

[[Image:Punwarak.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Shotguns==
===[[Franchi PA3]]===

When Jigsaw goes to terrorize the Donatellis, Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[Franchi PA3]] shotgun, which Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) uses to threaten the Donatellis and force Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) to surrender. When Ink drifts into a back room, Castle kills him, takes the shotgun, and later uses it to blow Pittsy's head off.

[[Image:Franchimodpa3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Franchi PA3/215.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) pointing the [[Franchi PA3]] at Angela ([[Julie Benz]]).]]
[[Image:Punishershotty1.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) pointing the Franchi while smiling at Agent Budianski.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty2.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink holding the shotgun.]]
[[Image:Punishershotty3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the shotgun on Pittsy while cradling Grace Donatelli.]]

==Other==
=== H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher ===

Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) apparently shortens a [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher]] to make it lighter and perhaps handier in close quarters. Prop wise, this is an airsoft product called the AGX made by Madbull (a grenade launcher that can be mounted on any picatinny rail equipped rifle). They have been making reference to its use in the film for some time now.
He uses it towards the end of the movie, shooting some kind of air burst grenade (it explodes in mid-air).

[[Image:ag36.jpg|thumb|none|400px|H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher(full-length)]]
[[Image:agx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Madbull AGX Grenade Launcher(airsoft)]]
[[Image:Punisher warzone violent-tsrimg.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims his M4 variant, the grenade launcher visible underneath.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle snaps the breech of the grenade launcher closed.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the grenade launcher as Castle rams it through the door to take out the gangbangers waiting for him.]]
[[Image:Punisher2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

===M203 Grenade Launcher===
After a member of the Maginty's gang is vaporized in midair, a stunned Maginty turns and sees Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding a smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]], which he then switches for his [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]]. Incongruously, the effects make the weapon seem like a guided missile launcher.

[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

[[Image:Punisher2M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]].]]

===M4X Knife===
Frank's combat/utility knife is used to perform his first kill of the movie, nearly decapitating mob boss Gaetano Cesare, before being plunged into the crown of another dining mafioso's skull.

[[Image:S2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|This is a custom piece dubbed the M4X made by Daniel M. Certo for the film. -- ZG.]]
[[Image:M4x01 add3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] holding the knife.]]

[[Category: Movie]]

Punisher: War Zone

2010-10-13T12:18:24Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta 92SB */

[[Image:PunisherWarZonePoster.jpg‎|thumb|right|300px]]

The following guns appear in the film:

==Pistols==
===Beretta 92FS Inox (converted to full auto)===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses twin stainless [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]] pistols with extended mags and converted to full-auto (in the comics, the [[M1911]] is Castle's pistol of choice, but it appears only briefly in the movie and is never used).

[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS Inox 9mm]]
[[Image:WarZoneBerettas.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) wielding his two [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]]s akimbo during the mansion gunfight.]]
[[Image:2996413 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires his Berettas on full auto in the recycling center.]]
[[Image:Punisher2Inox.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle's Berettas run empty.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]) holding two fresh Beretta Inoxes out to Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2inox2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle accepts the Berettas and checks the hammers.]]

=== Beretta M92SB ===
Jigsaw's thug Pittsy ([[Mark Camacho]]) carries a [[Beretta 92SB]]), fitted with what appear to be pearl grips, which is later taken by Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

[[Image:PunisherM292F.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budiansky ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Beretta 92FS.]]

===Beretta 9000S===
Angela Donatelli ([[Julie Benz]]) keeps a [[Beretta 9000S]] for home safety, which she points at Castle, at first mistaking him for an intruder, and then recognizing him as the man who killed her husband.
[[Image:Beretta 9000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 9000S 9mm]]

[[Image:Punisher9000.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Close-up of the [[Beretta 9000S]] in Angela's ([[Julie Benz]]) hands.]]

=== Colt 1911A1 GI ===
The [[M1911|Colt 1911AI GI]] is the pistol of choice for the Punisher in the comics, but is never used in the film, only seen at the beginning being disassembled and cleaned by Frank.

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|350px|none|World War II issued Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher1911.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The [[M1911]] on Castle's gun rack.]]

===Glock 17===
Officer Saffiotti (Tony Calabretta) holds Castle up with a 3rd-Gen [[Glock 17]] near the beginning of the film. Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) does the same later.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]

[[Image:Punisher2glock.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Officer Safiotti (Tony Calabretta) points his Glock 17 at Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2glock2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Glock 17 at Castle.]]

===Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical===
As a backup for his full-auto Beretta Inoxes, Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] with a spurred hammer in the opening shootout at Gaetano Cesare's mansion.

Later, Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases another of these pistols from a gangbanger acquaintance (as part of Micro's unofficial "buy-back" program), then has it snatched away and shoved into his throat by Castle inside Micro's apartment.

[[Image:Usp_comp_tact.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical.45 ACP]][[Image:Punisher2USP.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) fires his [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] during the mansion shootout.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USP2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Punisher2USPC.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] from a gangbanger acquaintance, and checks the action. Incongruously, the post-production sound edit is off, or else the boom mike picked up Carlos ejecting an round without knowing it.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USPC2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle holding the pistol to Carlos's throat.]]

=== Makarov PM ===
During the summit with Jigsaw, one of the bodyguards accompanying Cristu Bulat ([[David Vadim]]) draws a [[Makarov PM]].

[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian '''Makarov PM''' 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the left, Bulat's bodyguard's Makarov PM is visible.]]

=== Ruger KP94 ===
During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holds a [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]).
[[Image:RugerP94.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Ruger KP94DC]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holding the [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Micro ([[Wayne Knight]]).]]
[[Image:Punishergun4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw fires a wild round with his Ruger while struggling with Frank.]]

=== Ruger Mk II ===
Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Ruger Mk II|Ruger Mark II]] pistol, among other pistols, from a fellow gangbanger, before carrying them back to Microchip.

[[Image:RugerMkIIStandard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ruger Mk II pistol with a standard heavy barrel - .22 LR]]
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Carlos examining his purchase.]]

=== SIG-Sauer P232 ===
Pittsy's son, Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]], which he points at Bulat's thugs during the summit.

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Punishergun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) holding his [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]].]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the right, Ink's SIG-Sauer P232 is visible.]]

=== Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum Revolver ===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) carries the Performance Center version of the [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] as one of his sidearms. He has at least two, one in stainless steel with extended ejector shroud, and a second with a supressed black barrel and a Knight's Armament RIS setup, flashlight, and laser. During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) relieves Frank of the weapon at gunpoint, empties four of the five rounds into Frank's bulletproof vest, then tosses the weapon back to him to "decide" how to use the last one.

[[Image:S&W500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith and Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum with extended ejector shroud]]
[[Image:WarZoneRevolver.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holds his stainless steel [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] with extended ejector shroud at ready.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2Rev2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Kac warzone revolver.jpg|none|thumb|400px|The custom black verison with laser sight carried by Castle during the final confrontation.]]

[[Image:19 300dpi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] conversing with director Lexi Alexander, holding the black version of the revolver in his hand.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|After shooting Castle once, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) checks the cylinder and sees four remaining rounds.]]

Several members of the gangbangers also carry the weapon, some standard and some with scopes.

[[Image:Magnum 50cal 500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Standard Smith & Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum]]
[[Image:Punishergrenade1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|On the other side of the door from Castle is a room full of thugs, several carrying Smith & Wesson Model 500 revolvers.]]

=== Walther P22 ===
One of the guns on Frank's gun rack is a [[Walther P22]].

[[Image:WaltherP22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Walther P22 .22 LR with stainless steel slide]]
[[Image:PunisherP22.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Submachine Guns==
===Brügger & Thomet MP-9===
During the mansion gunfight, a wounded thug crawls laboriously towards a dropped [[Steyr TMP#Brügger & Thomet MP-9|Brügger & Thomet MP-9]], while Castle is gunning down several other thugs, only for Castle to almost-casually shoot him on his way out the door, just as the thug starts to raise it.
[[Image:Mp9tmp.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Brügger & Thomet MP-9 9mm]]
[[Image:PunisherwarzoneMP9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The thug starts crawling towards the MP-9...]]
[[Image:PunisherMP9a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|...gets his hand on it...]]
[[Image:Punisherwaruzi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...and just manages to lift it before Castle drops him with two quick bullets.]]

===H&K MP5K===
In one of the film's most promoted sequences, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) draws a pair of [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]]'s from back holsters and unloads them while spinning upside down from a chandelier in the mansion gunfight. The weapons have satin nickel receivers, and the foregrips have been removed,making them true "machine pistols."

[[Image:MP5KModified.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Kock MP5K with SEF trigger group and forward handguards removed - 9mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The two MP5Ks on Castle's gun rack.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the two MP5Ks in Castle's back holsters, just before he draws them.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires the MP5Ks while spinning upside down (in a rip-off/tribute to ''[[3000 Miles to Graceland]]''.]]

===H&K MP5A2===
A [[Heckler & Koch MP5A2]] appears in Castle's armory.

[[Image:MP5.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9mm with early "slimline" forearm]]
[[Image:PunisherArmory.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MP5A2 seen in Castle's armory]]

=== H&K MP5A3 ===
One of the guards in Jigsaw's hideout carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]].

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The guard in Jigsaw's hideout.]]

=== H&K MP5SD ===
One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].

[[Image:MP5SD3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 9mm with S-E-F trigger group and Stock Extended.]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5SD.jpg|thumb|none|500px|One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].]]

==Rifles==
=== AKS-74U ===
Several of Tiberiu's Russian thugs carry [[AK-74#AK-74U|AKS-74U]] carbines during the final shootout.

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U (also referred to as the "AKSU" or 'Krinkov') - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK74U.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Russian thugs armed with AKS-74U rifles.]]

=== Beretta CX4 Storm ===
Several of the Chinese Triad members carry [[Beretta CX4 Storm]] rifles during the final shootout.
[[Image:Beretta_CX4_storm.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta CX4 Storm, available in 9x19mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher2Cx4C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Chinese Triad firing a [[Beretta CX4 Storm]].]]

===Heckler & Koch G3A3===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G3]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:HKG3A3.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

=== H&K G36C ===
Several Chinese Triads use [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifles during the final shootout.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Chinese Triad thugs carrying G36Cs]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] is visible in Castle's armory.]]

===Heckler & Koch G36K===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G36K]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:H&K-G36K.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Heckler & Koch G36K]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Heckler & Koch SL8===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]] to snipe one of the members of Maginty's gang between the eyes, then to kneecap Maginty himself.

[[Image:H&KSL8Tactical.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch SL8 Tactical Match Rifle - 5.56mm]]

[[Image:Warzonesniper8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims the [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]].]]
[[Image:Punisherwarzone l 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Publicity photo of Castle holding the SL8.]]

===M4-type weapon===

During the final assault, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) takes a custom [[M4A1]]-type carbine with KAC Quad-rails, a C-More red dot optic, an M4-2000 by Advanced Armament Corp suppressor, and a short version of the [[AG36 grenade launcher]], which is really an Airsoft prop. It is referred to by the Armorer on the behind-the-scenes feature as an M4 with a short barrel. It appears to be a short-stroke piston upper of some type, but IMFDB has been unable to identify the specific make/model. (It is NOT a [[Heckler & Koch HK416]] as some have speculated.)

[[Image:PunisherM4a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Frank readying his rifle]]

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his rifle]]

[[Image:Posterthe-1228447413-572.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promotional Image]]

=== [[SA80]] - L85A1/2===
Among the rifles seen on the racks in Microchip's apartment is a British [[SA80]] rifle.
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA80 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SA80 seen above Microchip's head.]]

=== SIG SG 552 ===
Several of the FBI Agents escorting Agent Ross to his meeting with Jigsaw are armed with [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.
[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2552.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FBI Agents carrying [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.]]

[[Image:Punisher2552a.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Zastava M70===
Many of the Russian gangsters used fixed stock [[Zastava M70|Zastava M70B1]]s and folding stock M70AB2s against the Chinese gang.

[[Image:Zastava M70AB2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Zastava M70AB2 folding stock rifle - 7.62x39mm]]

[[Image:Punwarak.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Shotguns==
===[[Franchi PA3]]===

When Jigsaw goes to terrorize the Donatellis, Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[Franchi PA3]] shotgun, which Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) uses to threaten the Donatellis and force Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) to surrender. When Ink drifts into a back room, Castle kills him, takes the shotgun, and later uses it to blow Pittsy's head off.

[[Image:Franchimodpa3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Franchi PA3/215.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) pointing the [[Franchi PA3]] at Angela ([[Julie Benz]]).]]
[[Image:Punishershotty1.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) pointing the Franchi while smiling at Agent Budianski.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty2.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink holding the shotgun.]]
[[Image:Punishershotty3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the shotgun on Pittsy while cradling Grace Donatelli.]]

==Other==
=== H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher ===

Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) apparently shortens a [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher]] to make it lighter and perhaps handier in close quarters. Prop wise, this is an airsoft product called the AGX made by Madbull (a grenade launcher that can be mounted on any picatinny rail equipped rifle). They have been making reference to its use in the film for some time now.
He uses it towards the end of the movie, shooting some kind of air burst grenade (it explodes in mid-air).

[[Image:ag36.jpg|thumb|none|400px|H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher(full-length)]]
[[Image:agx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Madbull AGX Grenade Launcher(airsoft)]]
[[Image:Punisher warzone violent-tsrimg.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims his M4 variant, the grenade launcher visible underneath.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle snaps the breech of the grenade launcher closed.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the grenade launcher as Castle rams it through the door to take out the gangbangers waiting for him.]]
[[Image:Punisher2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

===M203 Grenade Launcher===
After a member of the Maginty's gang is vaporized in midair, a stunned Maginty turns and sees Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding a smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]], which he then switches for his [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]]. Incongruously, the effects make the weapon seem like a guided missile launcher.

[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

[[Image:Punisher2M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]].]]

===M4X Knife===
Frank's combat/utility knife is used to perform his first kill of the movie, nearly decapitating mob boss Gaetano Cesare, before being plunged into the crown of another dining mafioso's skull.

[[Image:S2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|This is a custom piece dubbed the M4X made by Daniel M. Certo for the film. -- ZG.]]
[[Image:M4x01 add3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] holding the knife.]]

[[Category: Movie]]

Punisher: War Zone

2010-10-13T12:17:57Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta M92SB */

[[Image:PunisherWarZonePoster.jpg‎|thumb|right|300px]]

The following guns appear in the film:

==Pistols==
===Beretta 92FS Inox (converted to full auto)===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses twin stainless [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]] pistols with extended mags and converted to full-auto (in the comics, the [[M1911]] is Castle's pistol of choice, but it appears only briefly in the movie and is never used).

[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS Inox 9mm]]
[[Image:WarZoneBerettas.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) wielding his two [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]]s akimbo during the mansion gunfight.]]
[[Image:2996413 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires his Berettas on full auto in the recycling center.]]
[[Image:Punisher2Inox.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle's Berettas run empty.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]) holding two fresh Beretta Inoxes out to Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2inox2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle accepts the Berettas and checks the hammers.]]

=== Beretta M92SB ===
Jigsaw's thug Pittsy ([[Mark Camacho]]) carries a [[Beretta 92SB]]), fitted with what appear to be pearl grips, which is later taken by Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]).

[[Image:Beretta92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

[[Image:Punisher292F.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budiansky ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Beretta 92FS.]]

===Beretta 9000S===
Angela Donatelli ([[Julie Benz]]) keeps a [[Beretta 9000S]] for home safety, which she points at Castle, at first mistaking him for an intruder, and then recognizing him as the man who killed her husband.
[[Image:Beretta 9000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 9000S 9mm]]

[[Image:Punisher9000.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Close-up of the [[Beretta 9000S]] in Angela's ([[Julie Benz]]) hands.]]

=== Colt 1911A1 GI ===
The [[M1911|Colt 1911AI GI]] is the pistol of choice for the Punisher in the comics, but is never used in the film, only seen at the beginning being disassembled and cleaned by Frank.

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|350px|none|World War II issued Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher1911.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The [[M1911]] on Castle's gun rack.]]

===Glock 17===
Officer Saffiotti (Tony Calabretta) holds Castle up with a 3rd-Gen [[Glock 17]] near the beginning of the film. Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) does the same later.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]

[[Image:Punisher2glock.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Officer Safiotti (Tony Calabretta) points his Glock 17 at Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2glock2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Glock 17 at Castle.]]

===Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical===
As a backup for his full-auto Beretta Inoxes, Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] with a spurred hammer in the opening shootout at Gaetano Cesare's mansion.

Later, Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases another of these pistols from a gangbanger acquaintance (as part of Micro's unofficial "buy-back" program), then has it snatched away and shoved into his throat by Castle inside Micro's apartment.

[[Image:Usp_comp_tact.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical.45 ACP]][[Image:Punisher2USP.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) fires his [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] during the mansion shootout.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USP2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Punisher2USPC.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] from a gangbanger acquaintance, and checks the action. Incongruously, the post-production sound edit is off, or else the boom mike picked up Carlos ejecting an round without knowing it.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USPC2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle holding the pistol to Carlos's throat.]]

=== Makarov PM ===
During the summit with Jigsaw, one of the bodyguards accompanying Cristu Bulat ([[David Vadim]]) draws a [[Makarov PM]].

[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian '''Makarov PM''' 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the left, Bulat's bodyguard's Makarov PM is visible.]]

=== Ruger KP94 ===
During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holds a [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]).
[[Image:RugerP94.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Ruger KP94DC]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holding the [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Micro ([[Wayne Knight]]).]]
[[Image:Punishergun4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw fires a wild round with his Ruger while struggling with Frank.]]

=== Ruger Mk II ===
Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Ruger Mk II|Ruger Mark II]] pistol, among other pistols, from a fellow gangbanger, before carrying them back to Microchip.

[[Image:RugerMkIIStandard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ruger Mk II pistol with a standard heavy barrel - .22 LR]]
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Carlos examining his purchase.]]

=== SIG-Sauer P232 ===
Pittsy's son, Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]], which he points at Bulat's thugs during the summit.

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Punishergun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) holding his [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]].]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the right, Ink's SIG-Sauer P232 is visible.]]

=== Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum Revolver ===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) carries the Performance Center version of the [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] as one of his sidearms. He has at least two, one in stainless steel with extended ejector shroud, and a second with a supressed black barrel and a Knight's Armament RIS setup, flashlight, and laser. During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) relieves Frank of the weapon at gunpoint, empties four of the five rounds into Frank's bulletproof vest, then tosses the weapon back to him to "decide" how to use the last one.

[[Image:S&W500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith and Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum with extended ejector shroud]]
[[Image:WarZoneRevolver.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holds his stainless steel [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] with extended ejector shroud at ready.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2Rev2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Kac warzone revolver.jpg|none|thumb|400px|The custom black verison with laser sight carried by Castle during the final confrontation.]]

[[Image:19 300dpi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] conversing with director Lexi Alexander, holding the black version of the revolver in his hand.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|After shooting Castle once, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) checks the cylinder and sees four remaining rounds.]]

Several members of the gangbangers also carry the weapon, some standard and some with scopes.

[[Image:Magnum 50cal 500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Standard Smith & Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum]]
[[Image:Punishergrenade1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|On the other side of the door from Castle is a room full of thugs, several carrying Smith & Wesson Model 500 revolvers.]]

=== Walther P22 ===
One of the guns on Frank's gun rack is a [[Walther P22]].

[[Image:WaltherP22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Walther P22 .22 LR with stainless steel slide]]
[[Image:PunisherP22.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Submachine Guns==
===Brügger & Thomet MP-9===
During the mansion gunfight, a wounded thug crawls laboriously towards a dropped [[Steyr TMP#Brügger & Thomet MP-9|Brügger & Thomet MP-9]], while Castle is gunning down several other thugs, only for Castle to almost-casually shoot him on his way out the door, just as the thug starts to raise it.
[[Image:Mp9tmp.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Brügger & Thomet MP-9 9mm]]
[[Image:PunisherwarzoneMP9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The thug starts crawling towards the MP-9...]]
[[Image:PunisherMP9a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|...gets his hand on it...]]
[[Image:Punisherwaruzi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...and just manages to lift it before Castle drops him with two quick bullets.]]

===H&K MP5K===
In one of the film's most promoted sequences, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) draws a pair of [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]]'s from back holsters and unloads them while spinning upside down from a chandelier in the mansion gunfight. The weapons have satin nickel receivers, and the foregrips have been removed,making them true "machine pistols."

[[Image:MP5KModified.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Kock MP5K with SEF trigger group and forward handguards removed - 9mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The two MP5Ks on Castle's gun rack.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the two MP5Ks in Castle's back holsters, just before he draws them.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires the MP5Ks while spinning upside down (in a rip-off/tribute to ''[[3000 Miles to Graceland]]''.]]

===H&K MP5A2===
A [[Heckler & Koch MP5A2]] appears in Castle's armory.

[[Image:MP5.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9mm with early "slimline" forearm]]
[[Image:PunisherArmory.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MP5A2 seen in Castle's armory]]

=== H&K MP5A3 ===
One of the guards in Jigsaw's hideout carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]].

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The guard in Jigsaw's hideout.]]

=== H&K MP5SD ===
One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].

[[Image:MP5SD3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 9mm with S-E-F trigger group and Stock Extended.]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5SD.jpg|thumb|none|500px|One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].]]

==Rifles==
=== AKS-74U ===
Several of Tiberiu's Russian thugs carry [[AK-74#AK-74U|AKS-74U]] carbines during the final shootout.

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U (also referred to as the "AKSU" or 'Krinkov') - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK74U.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Russian thugs armed with AKS-74U rifles.]]

=== Beretta CX4 Storm ===
Several of the Chinese Triad members carry [[Beretta CX4 Storm]] rifles during the final shootout.
[[Image:Beretta_CX4_storm.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta CX4 Storm, available in 9x19mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher2Cx4C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Chinese Triad firing a [[Beretta CX4 Storm]].]]

===Heckler & Koch G3A3===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G3]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:HKG3A3.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

=== H&K G36C ===
Several Chinese Triads use [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifles during the final shootout.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Chinese Triad thugs carrying G36Cs]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] is visible in Castle's armory.]]

===Heckler & Koch G36K===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G36K]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:H&K-G36K.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Heckler & Koch G36K]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Heckler & Koch SL8===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]] to snipe one of the members of Maginty's gang between the eyes, then to kneecap Maginty himself.

[[Image:H&KSL8Tactical.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch SL8 Tactical Match Rifle - 5.56mm]]

[[Image:Warzonesniper8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims the [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]].]]
[[Image:Punisherwarzone l 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Publicity photo of Castle holding the SL8.]]

===M4-type weapon===

During the final assault, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) takes a custom [[M4A1]]-type carbine with KAC Quad-rails, a C-More red dot optic, an M4-2000 by Advanced Armament Corp suppressor, and a short version of the [[AG36 grenade launcher]], which is really an Airsoft prop. It is referred to by the Armorer on the behind-the-scenes feature as an M4 with a short barrel. It appears to be a short-stroke piston upper of some type, but IMFDB has been unable to identify the specific make/model. (It is NOT a [[Heckler & Koch HK416]] as some have speculated.)

[[Image:PunisherM4a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Frank readying his rifle]]

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his rifle]]

[[Image:Posterthe-1228447413-572.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promotional Image]]

=== [[SA80]] - L85A1/2===
Among the rifles seen on the racks in Microchip's apartment is a British [[SA80]] rifle.
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA80 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SA80 seen above Microchip's head.]]

=== SIG SG 552 ===
Several of the FBI Agents escorting Agent Ross to his meeting with Jigsaw are armed with [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.
[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2552.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FBI Agents carrying [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.]]

[[Image:Punisher2552a.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Zastava M70===
Many of the Russian gangsters used fixed stock [[Zastava M70|Zastava M70B1]]s and folding stock M70AB2s against the Chinese gang.

[[Image:Zastava M70AB2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Zastava M70AB2 folding stock rifle - 7.62x39mm]]

[[Image:Punwarak.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Shotguns==
===[[Franchi PA3]]===

When Jigsaw goes to terrorize the Donatellis, Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[Franchi PA3]] shotgun, which Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) uses to threaten the Donatellis and force Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) to surrender. When Ink drifts into a back room, Castle kills him, takes the shotgun, and later uses it to blow Pittsy's head off.

[[Image:Franchimodpa3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Franchi PA3/215.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) pointing the [[Franchi PA3]] at Angela ([[Julie Benz]]).]]
[[Image:Punishershotty1.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) pointing the Franchi while smiling at Agent Budianski.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty2.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink holding the shotgun.]]
[[Image:Punishershotty3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the shotgun on Pittsy while cradling Grace Donatelli.]]

==Other==
=== H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher ===

Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) apparently shortens a [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher]] to make it lighter and perhaps handier in close quarters. Prop wise, this is an airsoft product called the AGX made by Madbull (a grenade launcher that can be mounted on any picatinny rail equipped rifle). They have been making reference to its use in the film for some time now.
He uses it towards the end of the movie, shooting some kind of air burst grenade (it explodes in mid-air).

[[Image:ag36.jpg|thumb|none|400px|H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher(full-length)]]
[[Image:agx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Madbull AGX Grenade Launcher(airsoft)]]
[[Image:Punisher warzone violent-tsrimg.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims his M4 variant, the grenade launcher visible underneath.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle snaps the breech of the grenade launcher closed.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the grenade launcher as Castle rams it through the door to take out the gangbangers waiting for him.]]
[[Image:Punisher2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

===M203 Grenade Launcher===
After a member of the Maginty's gang is vaporized in midair, a stunned Maginty turns and sees Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding a smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]], which he then switches for his [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]]. Incongruously, the effects make the weapon seem like a guided missile launcher.

[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

[[Image:Punisher2M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]].]]

===M4X Knife===
Frank's combat/utility knife is used to perform his first kill of the movie, nearly decapitating mob boss Gaetano Cesare, before being plunged into the crown of another dining mafioso's skull.

[[Image:S2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|This is a custom piece dubbed the M4X made by Daniel M. Certo for the film. -- ZG.]]
[[Image:M4x01 add3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] holding the knife.]]

[[Category: Movie]]

Punisher: War Zone

2010-10-13T12:17:30Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta M92SB */

[[Image:PunisherWarZonePoster.jpg‎|thumb|right|300px]]

The following guns appear in the film:

==Pistols==
===Beretta 92FS Inox (converted to full auto)===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses twin stainless [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]] pistols with extended mags and converted to full-auto (in the comics, the [[M1911]] is Castle's pistol of choice, but it appears only briefly in the movie and is never used).

[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS Inox 9mm]]
[[Image:WarZoneBerettas.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) wielding his two [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92FS Inox|Beretta 92FS Inox]]s akimbo during the mansion gunfight.]]
[[Image:2996413 4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires his Berettas on full auto in the recycling center.]]
[[Image:Punisher2Inox.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle's Berettas run empty.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]) holding two fresh Beretta Inoxes out to Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2inox2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle accepts the Berettas and checks the hammers.]]

=== Beretta M92SB ===
Jigsaw's thug Pittsy ([[Mark Camacho]]) carries a [[Beretta 92SB]]), fitted with what appear to be pearl grips, which is later taken by Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

[[Image:Punisher2M92F.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budiansky ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Beretta 92FS.]]

===Beretta 9000S===
Angela Donatelli ([[Julie Benz]]) keeps a [[Beretta 9000S]] for home safety, which she points at Castle, at first mistaking him for an intruder, and then recognizing him as the man who killed her husband.
[[Image:Beretta 9000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 9000S 9mm]]

[[Image:Punisher9000.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Close-up of the [[Beretta 9000S]] in Angela's ([[Julie Benz]]) hands.]]

=== Colt 1911A1 GI ===
The [[M1911|Colt 1911AI GI]] is the pistol of choice for the Punisher in the comics, but is never used in the film, only seen at the beginning being disassembled and cleaned by Frank.

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|350px|none|World War II issued Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher1911.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The [[M1911]] on Castle's gun rack.]]

===Glock 17===
Officer Saffiotti (Tony Calabretta) holds Castle up with a 3rd-Gen [[Glock 17]] near the beginning of the film. Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) does the same later.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]

[[Image:Punisher2glock.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Officer Safiotti (Tony Calabretta) points his Glock 17 at Castle.]]
[[Image:Punisher2glock2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) aims his Glock 17 at Castle.]]

===Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical===
As a backup for his full-auto Beretta Inoxes, Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] with a spurred hammer in the opening shootout at Gaetano Cesare's mansion.

Later, Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases another of these pistols from a gangbanger acquaintance (as part of Micro's unofficial "buy-back" program), then has it snatched away and shoved into his throat by Castle inside Micro's apartment.

[[Image:Usp_comp_tact.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical.45 ACP]][[Image:Punisher2USP.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) fires his [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] during the mansion shootout.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USP2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Punisher2USPC.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical|Heckler & Koch USP Compact Tactical]] from a gangbanger acquaintance, and checks the action. Incongruously, the post-production sound edit is off, or else the boom mike picked up Carlos ejecting an round without knowing it.]]
[[Image:Punisher2USPC2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle holding the pistol to Carlos's throat.]]

=== Makarov PM ===
During the summit with Jigsaw, one of the bodyguards accompanying Cristu Bulat ([[David Vadim]]) draws a [[Makarov PM]].

[[Image:MakarovPM.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Russian '''Makarov PM''' 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the left, Bulat's bodyguard's Makarov PM is visible.]]

=== Ruger KP94 ===
During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holds a [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Microchip ([[Wayne Knight]]).
[[Image:RugerP94.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Ruger KP94DC]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) holding the [[Ruger P94#KP94|Ruger KP94]] on Micro ([[Wayne Knight]]).]]
[[Image:Punishergun4.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw fires a wild round with his Ruger while struggling with Frank.]]

=== Ruger Mk II ===
Carlos ([[Carlos Gonzalez-Vio]]) purchases a [[Ruger Mk II|Ruger Mark II]] pistol, among other pistols, from a fellow gangbanger, before carrying them back to Microchip.

[[Image:RugerMkIIStandard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ruger Mk II pistol with a standard heavy barrel - .22 LR]]
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Carlos examining his purchase.]]

=== SIG-Sauer P232 ===
Pittsy's son, Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]], which he points at Bulat's thugs during the summit.

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Punishergun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Ink ([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) holding his [[SIG-Sauer P230#P232|SIG-Sauer P232]].]]
[[Image:Punishergun2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|From the right, Ink's SIG-Sauer P232 is visible.]]

=== Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum Revolver ===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) carries the Performance Center version of the [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] as one of his sidearms. He has at least two, one in stainless steel with extended ejector shroud, and a second with a supressed black barrel and a Knight's Armament RIS setup, flashlight, and laser. During the final confrontation, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) relieves Frank of the weapon at gunpoint, empties four of the five rounds into Frank's bulletproof vest, then tosses the weapon back to him to "decide" how to use the last one.

[[Image:S&W500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith and Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum with extended ejector shroud]]
[[Image:WarZoneRevolver.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holds his stainless steel [[Smith & Wesson Model 500]] with extended ejector shroud at ready.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2Rev2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

[[Image:Kac warzone revolver.jpg|none|thumb|400px|The custom black verison with laser sight carried by Castle during the final confrontation.]]

[[Image:19 300dpi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] conversing with director Lexi Alexander, holding the black version of the revolver in his hand.]]

[[Image:Punisher2Rev3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|After shooting Castle once, Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) checks the cylinder and sees four remaining rounds.]]

Several members of the gangbangers also carry the weapon, some standard and some with scopes.

[[Image:Magnum 50cal 500.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Standard Smith & Wesson Model 500, .500 S&W Magnum]]
[[Image:Punishergrenade1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|On the other side of the door from Castle is a room full of thugs, several carrying Smith & Wesson Model 500 revolvers.]]

=== Walther P22 ===
One of the guns on Frank's gun rack is a [[Walther P22]].

[[Image:WaltherP22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Walther P22 .22 LR with stainless steel slide]]
[[Image:PunisherP22.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Submachine Guns==
===Brügger & Thomet MP-9===
During the mansion gunfight, a wounded thug crawls laboriously towards a dropped [[Steyr TMP#Brügger & Thomet MP-9|Brügger & Thomet MP-9]], while Castle is gunning down several other thugs, only for Castle to almost-casually shoot him on his way out the door, just as the thug starts to raise it.
[[Image:Mp9tmp.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Brügger & Thomet MP-9 9mm]]
[[Image:PunisherwarzoneMP9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The thug starts crawling towards the MP-9...]]
[[Image:PunisherMP9a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|...gets his hand on it...]]
[[Image:Punisherwaruzi.jpg|thumb|none|500px|...and just manages to lift it before Castle drops him with two quick bullets.]]

===H&K MP5K===
In one of the film's most promoted sequences, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) draws a pair of [[Heckler & Koch MP5K]]'s from back holsters and unloads them while spinning upside down from a chandelier in the mansion gunfight. The weapons have satin nickel receivers, and the foregrips have been removed,making them true "machine pistols."

[[Image:MP5KModified.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Kock MP5K with SEF trigger group and forward handguards removed - 9mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The two MP5Ks on Castle's gun rack.]]
[[Image:Punisher2MP5K2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the two MP5Ks in Castle's back holsters, just before he draws them.]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle fires the MP5Ks while spinning upside down (in a rip-off/tribute to ''[[3000 Miles to Graceland]]''.]]

===H&K MP5A2===
A [[Heckler & Koch MP5A2]] appears in Castle's armory.

[[Image:MP5.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9mm with early "slimline" forearm]]
[[Image:PunisherArmory.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MP5A2 seen in Castle's armory]]

=== H&K MP5A3 ===
One of the guards in Jigsaw's hideout carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5A3]].

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|The guard in Jigsaw's hideout.]]

=== H&K MP5SD ===
One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].

[[Image:MP5SD3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 9mm with S-E-F trigger group and Stock Extended.]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5SD.jpg|thumb|none|500px|One of the FBI Agents with Agent Ross during his meeting with Jigsaw carries a [[Heckler & Koch MP5SD]].]]

==Rifles==
=== AKS-74U ===
Several of Tiberiu's Russian thugs carry [[AK-74#AK-74U|AKS-74U]] carbines during the final shootout.

[[Image:AKSU-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKS-74U (also referred to as the "AKSU" or 'Krinkov') - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK74U.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Russian thugs armed with AKS-74U rifles.]]

=== Beretta CX4 Storm ===
Several of the Chinese Triad members carry [[Beretta CX4 Storm]] rifles during the final shootout.
[[Image:Beretta_CX4_storm.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta CX4 Storm, available in 9x19mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Punisher2Cx4C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A Chinese Triad firing a [[Beretta CX4 Storm]].]]

===Heckler & Koch G3A3===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G3]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:HKG3A3.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

=== H&K G36C ===
Several Chinese Triads use [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch G36C|Heckler & Koch G36C]] rifles during the final shootout.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Heckler & Koch G36C 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Chinese Triad thugs carrying G36Cs]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2G36C3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] is visible in Castle's armory.]]

===Heckler & Koch G36K===
The Chinese Triads set out [[Heckler & Koch G36K]] rifles before the final shootout.

[[Image:H&K-G36K.jpg|thumb|none|450px|[[Heckler & Koch G36K]]]]
[[Image:Punishergun6.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Heckler & Koch SL8===
Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) uses a [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]] to snipe one of the members of Maginty's gang between the eyes, then to kneecap Maginty himself.

[[Image:H&KSL8Tactical.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch SL8 Tactical Match Rifle - 5.56mm]]

[[Image:Warzonesniper8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims the [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]].]]
[[Image:Punisherwarzone l 2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Publicity photo of Castle holding the SL8.]]

===M4-type weapon===

During the final assault, Frank Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) takes a custom [[M4A1]]-type carbine with KAC Quad-rails, a C-More red dot optic, an M4-2000 by Advanced Armament Corp suppressor, and a short version of the [[AG36 grenade launcher]], which is really an Airsoft prop. It is referred to by the Armorer on the behind-the-scenes feature as an M4 with a short barrel. It appears to be a short-stroke piston upper of some type, but IMFDB has been unable to identify the specific make/model. (It is NOT a [[Heckler & Koch HK416]] as some have speculated.)

[[Image:PunisherM4a.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Frank readying his rifle]]

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his rifle]]

[[Image:Posterthe-1228447413-572.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Promotional Image]]

=== [[SA80]] - L85A1/2===
Among the rifles seen on the racks in Microchip's apartment is a British [[SA80]] rifle.
[[Image:Sal8.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SA80 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher-war-zone-20081117004744444 640w.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SA80 seen above Microchip's head.]]

=== SIG SG 552 ===
Several of the FBI Agents escorting Agent Ross to his meeting with Jigsaw are armed with [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.
[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Punisher2552.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FBI Agents carrying [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] rifles.]]

[[Image:Punisher2552a.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===Zastava M70===
Many of the Russian gangsters used fixed stock [[Zastava M70|Zastava M70B1]]s and folding stock M70AB2s against the Chinese gang.

[[Image:Zastava M70AB2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Zastava M70AB2 folding stock rifle - 7.62x39mm]]

[[Image:Punwarak.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2AK2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Shotguns==
===[[Franchi PA3]]===

When Jigsaw goes to terrorize the Donatellis, Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) carries a [[Franchi PA3]] shotgun, which Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) uses to threaten the Donatellis and force Agent Budianski ([[Colin Salmon]]) to surrender. When Ink drifts into a back room, Castle kills him, takes the shotgun, and later uses it to blow Pittsy's head off.

[[Image:Franchimodpa3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Franchi PA3/215.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink (([[Keram Malicki-Sanchez]]) pointing the [[Franchi PA3]] at Angela ([[Julie Benz]]).]]
[[Image:Punishershotty1.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Jigsaw ([[Dominic West]]) pointing the Franchi while smiling at Agent Budianski.]]

[[Image:Punishershotty2.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Ink holding the shotgun.]]
[[Image:Punishershotty3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the shotgun on Pittsy while cradling Grace Donatelli.]]

==Other==
=== H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher ===

Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) apparently shortens a [[Heckler & Koch AG36 Grenade Launcher]] to make it lighter and perhaps handier in close quarters. Prop wise, this is an airsoft product called the AGX made by Madbull (a grenade launcher that can be mounted on any picatinny rail equipped rifle). They have been making reference to its use in the film for some time now.
He uses it towards the end of the movie, shooting some kind of air burst grenade (it explodes in mid-air).

[[Image:ag36.jpg|thumb|none|400px|H&K AG36 Grenade Launcher(full-length)]]
[[Image:agx.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Madbull AGX Grenade Launcher(airsoft)]]
[[Image:Punisher warzone violent-tsrimg.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) aims his M4 variant, the grenade launcher visible underneath.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle snaps the breech of the grenade launcher closed.]]
[[Image:Punisher2GL2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A shot of the grenade launcher as Castle rams it through the door to take out the gangbangers waiting for him.]]
[[Image:Punisher2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

===M203 Grenade Launcher===
After a member of the Maginty's gang is vaporized in midair, a stunned Maginty turns and sees Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding a smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]], which he then switches for his [[Heckler & Koch G36#Heckler & Koch SL8|Heckler & Koch SL8]]. Incongruously, the effects make the weapon seem like a guided missile launcher.

[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

[[Image:Punisher2M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle ([[Ray Stevenson]]) holding the smoking [[M203 grenade launcher]].]]

===M4X Knife===
Frank's combat/utility knife is used to perform his first kill of the movie, nearly decapitating mob boss Gaetano Cesare, before being plunged into the crown of another dining mafioso's skull.

[[Image:S2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|This is a custom piece dubbed the M4X made by Daniel M. Certo for the film. -- ZG.]]
[[Image:M4x01 add3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A production still showing [[Ray Stevenson]] holding the knife.]]

[[Category: Movie]]

Talk:Justified

2010-09-30T11:28:51Z

PunisherDave: /* Glock 26 */

So what gun does Raylin use to shoot Boyd in the chest with?
:He did a brass check on it in the motel room. It looked like a Commander model. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:41, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
==Miami gun==
This screen-cap of the gun Raylin uses at the table in Miami at the start of the episode does NOT look like a SIG Sauer P226. It has large square front end, the possibly after-market spring guide rod is stainless and rather large hex; the grip flares above the hand. Other details are a little hard to distinguish, but I think the ID for this prop gun is still unknown. Ideas?
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3390/snapshot20100318023606.png
--[[Special:Contributions/24.8.253.46|24.8.253.46]] 22:04, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
:I don't see double stack bulges either. I'm going to covert that pic to JPEG and put it on the main page. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:45, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:JT-SIG.JPG|thumb|none|600px|]]
::Here is the pic converted. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 23:58, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:::This doesn't look like a real SIG to me; it looks like one of the SIG [["Non Guns"]]:

:::[[Image:SIGnon-gun.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SIG-Sauer Non Gun]]

:::-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

Perfect! Here's an animated image I took off the ep. It clearly shows that it's a non-gun. That's why it looks kind of funny, a little like a Glock, some of the parts don't match, and it's way too simplified. Classic non-gun. Given that I think we're fine leaving it as a Sig Sauer P226. And we have another image to add to the non-gun page.
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6461/justifiednongun.gif
--[[Special:Contributions/24.8.253.46|24.8.253.46]] 02:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
::EXCELLENT! Yes, that tell tale "poof" of the flame and the smoke lacks the 'blast' of a real blank. It's definitely an ISS non-gun. Just remember to list it on the NON gun page as well as the actor page (along with this page). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:25, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

:::''Given that I think we're fine leaving it as a Sig Sauer P226.''

:::Nope, if it's a Non Gun, then it should be designated as such, and not as a SIG P226. We are trying to be an accurate as possible. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:58, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

==The Promo Gun==
I'm not sure if this related to the topic above but, on the Promo shot for the show, show on the original page on this site, the Sig that he is aiming has quite a large bore aperture. Considering this penchant for larger caliber Automatics, I think it could possibly be a Sig p220 in .45 ACP. Thoughts anyone?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 17:17, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

==End of first episode==
Seriously? They killed the main antagonist in the first episode, now what?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 06:21, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

He didn't fucking die dude. Raylen just wounded him instead of killing him instantly. He'll be back.-ArmoredMason619

He was alive when they put him in the ambulance and he is on the next episode.-Spades of Columbia

But he took a .45 slug and a load of buckshot to the chest! I bet next episode he's going to be perfectly fine (stupid television)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:23, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

She missed, no buckshot to the chest. The have already shown he's in the hurt box but alive. FX tends to be on the level with violence.

He wasn't perfectly fine the next episode. He was in a hospital bed with little movement possible and a button where he can control pain meds. He isn't fine. And just because he was shot with a .45 in the chest doesn't mean much if Raylan didn't hit his heart or lungs. But it did knock the guy down and out of the fight. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:46, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Givens shot Boyd centermass, so it's understood from the dialogue of the other characters that Givens missed the heart on purpose out of some sense of loyalty to Boyd. And if you would pay close enough attention to the dialogue and not just the action, many of these simple questions are answered.

==Glock==
I believe that Raylen is carrying a glock 22 and a glock 27 in the second episode. He even makes a reference to The Fugative as he is a US Marshal. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

I have yet to get a good enough look at what Type/style/Brand of holster Raylin draws from. Can anyone identify the holster or at least get a good picture of it? [[Spades of Columbia]]

In S1.Ep.10 Raylen tells the judge the he carries a .45 Glock. Wouldn't that make it a 21?
:Just because that's what he says in the show doesn't make it so. The muzzle is what most use to determine what type of Glock, if there isn't a good view of the slide. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:14, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, but he's saying its a .45 Glock. Now, it could be a G21 or a G37 if it's chambered in .45 GAP -burgershot621

Yeah...because it would be completely normal for a Southern Marshal to carry a .45gap, it would be a ACP if anything. [[Spades Of Columbia]]

In the episode, Raylen states he is carrying a .45 caliber glock. If it were a .45 GAP, he would say GAP. The .45 GAP is farely new, so it is understood that the character is carrying a .45 ACP, seeing as how the majority of the viewers may not be gun hounds like ourselves.-Mr. Peapobdy

Someone has now added the Glock 31 to the page. I'm starting to thing Glock sponsored this show just to advertize their product line.

Alot of the glocks on this page are speculative. For example just because a character on the show verbally says he's using a 45 doesnt mean he is using a real life Glock 21, he might say 45 but is filmed with a glock 17 or 19. Also just because it looks like a .357 sig cartridge doesnt mean its a Model 31 or 32, it might mean that he is using a model 22 with a necked and crimped blank round. They can also use the same gun in multiply seens with diffrent people...for all we know right now they can be passing the same Glock 17 and 26 to all the characters and call them diffrent calibers. [[Spades of Columbia]]

==Kentucky==
: As a former resident of Kentucky, I find Raylin's remarks about having to go back to KY hilarious. It is clearly obvious that he doesn't want to be there, and if you've ever had to live there you'll know exactly why-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:15, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think everyone feels that way about one's home state. Besides, there're bad places almost everywhere. Ever been to the backwoods of Florida? It's just like this show.--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 04:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Don't see why he complains so much. I've lived in Kentucky my whole life. I love this place.

==Bulletville==
: Though you'll only see it for a glimpse, it seems as though Ava is using a USPc near the end of the episode, in the cabin. Perhaps Raylan switched his BUG, or just a pick up. Just an added note. [[GWHYSOW]]

I'm not sure where the USP came from, I think Raylan disarmed Bo's thug of it.
Other Weapons were the Revolver & Sniper Rifle used by Boyd. Two other badguys used AK rifles.

I believe the USP came from Bo's guy that was watching Ava in the cabin, then Boyd came through the back door and killed him at which point i believe Ava got the dead man's weapon. [[Spades of Columbia]]

you're right, the USP came from one of Bo's thugs. raylan finishes the fight with his back-up -burgershot621
==Moved from main page==
I hate seeing discussions on the main page do here. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:41, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
===Glock 26===
[[Image:Glock 26.jpg‎ |thumb|none|300px|Glock 26 subcompact Pistol - 9x19mm]]
The Glock 26 is a subcompact pistol chambered for 9x19mm.

In episode 2 Marshal Givens is asked to drop both his gun and his backup. If his primary gun is a Glock 17 or 19 it would make sense that his backup is a Glock 26. Then you have mag and ammo compatibility.

-He states that his primary is a .45 Glock. No .45 Glock is this small so it stands to reason that this would be a 9mm because of Armor safety issues. There's no need for it to be a .357. However, from the size, it could easily be a Glock 33 in .357 sig or a Glock 27 in .40 S&W.

(Regarding statement above about there not being a .45 glock in that size) If you don't know anything about glocks, which you obviously don't, keep your statements off the internet. The glock 30 is a compact .45 glock. In the episode "the hammer" he states he has a .45 glock, which means he has...a .45 glock!! Pay closer attention and think before you type on a website that gun-nut cops (such as myself) visit on a daily basis.

If you seriously think that that SUB COMPACT weapon shown below is a Glock 30, then you've never held one. As a Glock 30 is COMPACT weapon. My personal belief that this is very likely the Glock 39 in .45 GAP, it's size difference being almost negligable when compared to the glock Glock 26. This show obviously seems to be marketing for glock and it stands to reason that his full size weapon is a Glock 37, also in .45 GAP. So keep your big man mouth to yourself mr "cop."--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 15:26, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I think that we can all agree that this anon "cop" is just some random kid who's parents don't love him enough.. also, my uncle carries a Glock 37, and off duty he carries a Glock 39.. both are chambered in .45 GAP. Oh, and really quick, "gun-nut cop," if you really were a cop you would know not to tell everyone on the internet, and you would have learned how to control your temper. -PunisherDave

[[Image:justified_glock26.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Marshal Givens is asked to drop his backup gun in Episode 2. Looks like a Glock 26. It has the mag boot on it.]]

===Glock 21===
In S1E10, The Hammer, Raylan Givens tells a judge he is assigned to protect that he carries a ".45 caliber Glock" making his sidearm a Glock model 21.
[[Image:Glock21.jpg|thumb|none|300px| ]]

-Possibly a Short Frame model.

Very possibly a Glock 37 in .45 GAP.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 15:27, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-09-20T11:43:37Z

PunisherDave: /* CZ75 */

This game has a cold war look to it

==Just a thought==
Don't wet your pants at me here, but the final mission might be in the future, which would explain the Anachrostic weapons in the game.. like how in COD: MW there was "all Ghillied up", a mission in the past--[[User:SargeOverkill]]

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way). That's why people call them SMGs. The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example). It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle. So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.

:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.

It's an Intermediate rifle, like the P90 or MP7A1, slightly smaller caliber but with an effective range between a rifle's range and a sub gun's range.
:No, that is an incorrect comparison. The AK-74U is just a compact rifle since it fires an assault rifle round, not an assault rifle "styled" rifle. The P90 and the MP7 are designed from the ground up to be PDWs that fired ammo that are necked down rifle rounds instead of pistol rounds designed with the same armor piercing power as the full size rifle. It's like the Colt Model 733 or the 933 or any of the other shorten assault rifle variants. A submachine gun is always compared to weapons that fire pistol caliber ammo. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

But weapons like the SAM-R use the same caliber as 933 and 733, 5.56x45, and the SAM-R is used as a DMR. i doubt the 5.45x39 could be a marksman rifle cartridge. even though its longer than the 5.7 or 4.6, its range and accuracy are not that of a true assault rifle.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Fixed the WASR-2 messup. It's not a WASR-2. NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES. When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples. That right there shows it's not a WASR.
Some people are still saying it could be WASR-2. It's not a WASR-2. WASR-2's are new production (within the past few years) rifles from Romania made ONLY for semi-automatic use and for importation into the US. There's no way on God's green earth that the rifle in game is a WASR-2.

More than likely this is just an AK-47 with an incorrectly modeled mag. They ARE modeling these things after airsoft guns ya know.

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Grenade launchers are balanced, mininum detonation range, slow reload, not very accurate (need to arc) only 2 rounds, and besides, use it to take down campers.

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Can someone link me the video of the G11 being used? I don't want to search through all the reposts and copies of other videos.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Not to mention it's impossible to actually fire one with live rounds. -Mandaloin

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]

I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, it leads to more accuracy and less damage. Hmm [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 02:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

==Time period and Guns==

There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The "but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!" argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.

== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==

.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New pics ==

IGN has some new BO pics:

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]

Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]

Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than Russians with SPAS.
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other "new" screens are from SP :)
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the "Inception level."

[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]

A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

== I think they did it again... ==
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.

I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil & http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov "experts"--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power "experts"! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about "Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS" and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:KS is yet another anachronism.
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another "American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War" mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......

I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had "CCCP" written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.

== AI Arctic Warfare ==

Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.
::: "The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''." If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic.

:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't forget that most of those "Jew guns" could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Name a few?
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)

::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should also get me some "real life" statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are "inferior." -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What "facts" do you have that make these weapons "inferior"? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said "I don't see nothing good about those "kosher" weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs."

Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== SKS ==
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74
::: Well, i think they just googled "AK" and modelled first gun they have seen.
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.

:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
== AS VAL ==
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces
::No.

== AKS-74U? ==

Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

== New details released ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo

This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW

:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|"Payback Time!"]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936

There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned

== Create A Class Video ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M

WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:While looking at the Create-a-class 2.0 vid shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCzSImy-xm4, I found it rather odd for the choice that Treyarch was going with on the weapon selection for the pistols at the 0:23 mark. Wouldn't it make more sense to place the Makarov PM as the starting pistol because of it's weak 9x18mm cartridge? I'd personally would have liked to see it like this:

*Makarov PM
*ASP
*1911
*Colt Python
*CZ75

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:52, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Full Weapon List ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.

SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre

Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)

Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12

LMG: HK21, RPK, M60

Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1

Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75

Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake

M202 & M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11

:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg

::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the "Create a class" video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called "Death Machine", so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the "Wager" game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.

== Seriously.... ==

This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.

: If you say so.

Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Peh, I'm past the point of even expecting this to be a realistic game. I'll enjoy it for what it is, but there's no way in hell that we're getting realism out of this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Iron sights ==

Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.

: ...a little excited there, bro?

From what I've heard, there will be an 'improved iron sights' attachment. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== Enfield ==

Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?

:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY "Enfield" is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an "Enfield?" I google in "enfield prototype," and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it

If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.

It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

== Burst M16? ==

When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

And why should they call it the "Raffica"? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica

A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does "get with the times" have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say "hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist." That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Remember, it's still full-auto in Singleplayer, as it should be. It's just 3-shot burst in MP so it doesn't make pot-head COD kids heads explode. Also, where do they call it the M16 "Raffica"? In the Create a Class videos they're listed simply as M16. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's only burst in multiplayer? Good. In multiplayer, anything goes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Another video ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]

You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called "G11 Cruelty." --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.
::As opposed to a CoD game without weapons? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 06:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

== A Question about guns ==

Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?

I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.

K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS correction==
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's a HK21. Watch in HD, it says in the bottom right. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile==
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.

The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call "Valkyrie Rockets".
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Flamethrower ==
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.

:It's an underbarrel attachment, too. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Grim Reaper? ==
In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?
:It's what they've dubbed the M202. It's kinda like how they called the M79 the Thumper. As I recall, the M202 is a killstreak reward. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Yeah aparently this game has several 'super weapons', but I'm not sure of the context of their use. But surely they won't be unlockable for custom classes, the "Death Machine" had a 400-somethin round belt.

::: The Death Machine (M136) and Grim Reaper (M202) are obtained from care packages now. Also, sign your posts. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

== Opinions on the game so far ? ==

I know everyone is going to have a different opinion but i personally think this game is gonna be the worst one yet. The weapons,the attachments,the killstreaks look so bad and the game is just gona be filled with little 10 year olds who only quickscope and camp! The next one by sledgehammer games sound better! Anyone else agre? -- GunGunGun
::I haven't seen anything about the sledgehammer installment. Is there anything out there? I just know that officially, what's left of IW is still working on MW3. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Call Of Duty is dead since MW2. Last good one was CoD5 ( ''But it wasnt nothing more than good'' ). So i dont expect things get better after Black Ops. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
: Considering that there's been no news at all on the Sledgehammer Games one yet, I have no idea how you could know that it will be better. Sounds like you, like some others here, are just angry that the guns and add-ons in the game make no sense for the era rather than whether or not it's fun to play. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 18:31, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
::The guns don't make sense at all, not just because of the era. I mean flamethrower attachments, handheld miniguns, the same rear sight on many guns, 20-round mags holding 30 rounds, semi-auto shotguns impossibly cycling with dragonsbreath ammo. Before MW2 the Call of Duty series was known for its accuracy and attention to how the guns really work, as well as the weapons for the time periods the games take place in. And GunGunGun has a point, it's just going to be the same chaotic multiplayer as MW2, a bunch of stoners and kids making themselves feel better by corner camping, tubing, and quickscoping. Treyarch only seems to have done things to promote those playing techniques, not discourage them like they should. -Mandaloin
::: Cry some more then? It's pretty obvious that you don't like the gameplay style. There are many, MANY gamers out there that would disagree with your tastes, and those are the ones that Treyarch is aiming to please (along with those on the fence over some of MW2s perks/killstreaks which were changed for the better). So what if it's not all realistic, the key point in a video game is if it's any fun to play or not. Last I checked, I couldn't actually survive crashing a Ferrari at 100MPh at Laguna Seca either, but it is sure as hell fun to play a game that allows me to get back up and try again without it being "game over" for me. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Meh, quit complaining, it's a video game. If you want realism go play ARMA or Operation Flashpoint. It does look better than MW2, that I will say. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 21:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I just love how people can criticize a game, when yet, they haven't even played it. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 21:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
:I just love how people keep saying that. We don't have to play it to criticize what we've already seen of it. -Mandaloin
:: Yeah, you kinda do. If you have not actually sat down and played this game, you're only assuming it's gonna be bad by just looking at it. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== PM-63? ==

Where did we see that? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 13:29, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

:[http://blackops.digitalwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pm63].--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown SMG ==

[[Image:MPLdual.png|thumb|none|450px|]]

: They look like MPL's to me, and those are said to be in this game so I'm betting that's what they are. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:33, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Those don't look anything like MPLs. It's probably something we haven't seen yet. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, I found this picture under Walther MPL on COD: Wiki, but I thought they looked nothing like MPLs, so I decided to put it as unknown and see if someone else knew what these were. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]]
:They kind of look like Arsenal Shipkas. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

The weapons in this game may be achronistic as hell, but at least they made them interesting, most of the weapons on the page right now are things you don't see much of in games or even movies, especially nowadays, there's even this, a gun we can't seem to identify with a clear first-person shot of both sides of the gun. I've gotten bored of knowing every gun in a game when I first get it, so, regardless of whether this game turns out to be good, which I hope it is, at least the weapon selection is nice and original, especially for a modern mainstream FPS. :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well I just went through the entire world.guns SMG database and the only thing that looks remotely similar to this is the Walther MPL, so if it's not a souped-up version of that than I don't know what it is. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing is in the right place. Either it's something else, or the modelers were told some other gun was an MPL and they didn't know any better. Did anyone else notice the icon on the left in the feed? Maybe it's whatever that's supposed to be. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe they're just modified Skorpions? [[User:Tanaj|Tanaj]] 15:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

i also went through the world.guns database and figured is could be a OTs-02 Kiparis http://world.guns.ru/smg/kiparis2.jpg
:Nice find, I agree. Wow, they must've dug pretty deep. I don't see how it'd be possible for this to be a modeling mistake, as I would think it's much harder to find one of these than an MPL. The above link doesn't work, here it is again. [http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg04-e.htm] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well whatdaya know, the one I missed. Good find. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

They are Skorpians in 9x18mm without the stocks. Looks awesome to me.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 00:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

: We've already seen what the Skorpions look like, these look alot like that OTs-02 Kiparis --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 00:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

== KS-23 ==

The KS-23 isn't 12 gauge, it's 6 gauge or something like that. I know that it's 23mm, which is not 12 gauge, so that should probably be changed. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:58, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia it's 6.27 gauge by American standards and 4 gauge in Euros. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm how are they going to balance that? I'm assuming that a 6.27 gauge packs a hell of a lot more lead than a 12 gauge so I'd take a guess that it would probably be pretty powerful --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 22:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

:I presume the KS-23 is likely to have heavy recoil, small capacity (3 rounds) and a delay between shots. Also can't the KS-23 also function as a Grenade launcher as well firing firing a variety of shells such as Tear Gass, Flash Bang and White Phosphorous? I would marry Treyarch if they finally added Slugs to this baby! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

== Stoner 63? ==

Hey Guys, I believe I've identified what seems to be a Stoner 63 fitted with some sort of telescopic scope, in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOAAWWjfG_g]
--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 08:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

could it be a galil

Looks like a AR-18 but don't we have the full assault rifle list?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: It's not an AR-18, the recievers don't match. It looks more like the 63, although it doesn't appear to have the ventilated barrel housing. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

After actually looking at a 63, this gun looks like it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Stoner63-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Stoner 63 in rifle and LMG configuration.]]
[[Image:COD7Stonerpossible.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here's a screencap from gameplay footage of the possible Stoner 63. Compared to the stock image I'd say it is.]] . - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Reflex sights==
Just wondering about the reflex sights, were they even developed back during the periods the game is set in? Another thing I was curious about is that the M4 Spectre in the list shows it having a reflex mounted on it. While it is using a side-mount, wouldn't the stock get in the way if you try to fold/unfold it since it folds to the top of the gun?--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
: '''1,''' Yeah, i am almost sure reflex sight existed during cold war. There is even patent on internet, dating it into seventies.
: '''2,''' All SMG´s have apparently stocks removed for some reason. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

==Not exactly on topic==
Alright, I am having a pretty bad day with dealing all the crap my professors are throwing at me and then my roommate says something that is kinda pissing me off so I am gonna rant a little bit. Last night(this early morning actually, around 1), he decided not to do his homework and decided to watch a show about snipers and the amazing feats they pulled off including one about Hatchcock. It was pretty interesting until he ruined it after watching a sniper take out VietCongs using kentucky windage with his scoped (now busted) m14 after his helo was shot down by saying, "So what, I don't see how that is impressive, I can do that all the time in Modern Warfare 2." Now he wants to go buy Black Ops when it comes out because he wants to "pwn some noobs" and all the feature look really realistic just like in MW2. He goes on to say that he wants to become a Ranger because he thinks it is easy enough since he is smart since he was on a debate team, ran for state assembly, etc. and strong because he can do MMA and finishes that with he can drink a lot beer. I give him credit for having the balls to join the Rangers but at the same time, it feels like he is insulting them. Sorry for writing all this but I was having a shitty day and just had to let is all out and I figured it since he was talking of COD, that I would put it here. Alright, rant over, feeling much better now. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 15:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy, is actual real military service gonna shit on his cereal, lets see just how easy pwning noobs is when your actually getting shot at, oh and apparently theres this thing called recoil in reality, suprising i know. Oh and no respawns either. On an actual related note this game is gonna suck, I do love the return of the 1911 to COD i just can forgive the erronious amounts of just horrendous anacronisms, and the flamethrower undermount is so retarded --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's a fun idea, hand a CoD fanboy an AR-15 with the bolt locked back, hand them a magazine, and tell them to fire it. See how long it takes them to realize that the weapon isn't magically ready to fire just because you slap in a fresh magazine. You get five points for every ten seconds it takes before they realize what the bolt catch is. You get bonus points if they pull the charging handle.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 06:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant! Oh and pop that elusive saftey on too, just for good measure.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 09:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be impressed if they would give the back stock a flat slap after loading a fresh mag and charged the gun like a real badass.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Even better would be actually getting through the first phase of basic to even hold a weapon.--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be even more surprised to find a gamer doing a proper tactical reload, instead of letting a mag drop to the ground and becoming confused as to why it doesn't magically appear back in his pouches.

==Kinda liking the weapons list==

Well, they are things you never see in other games, although the awp and famas and spas12 can go, and id love the a1 to be full auto. But, a revovler that makes sense, old school submachine guns, a pump action grenade launcher its kind of cool.

I do wish they didn't decided the nearly the same weapons from the other MW series like the AUG, SPAS-12, or the MP5K. They could have picked other pump action shotguns like the Remington 870, or another weapon aside from the MP5K. They should have stuck with the full size MP5. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
:Well, they do have the Ithaca 37. And at least the AUG is a rifle and not a LMG in this one. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I do know most of these guns really shouldn't exist but you can believe I will have a ton of fun with the under-barrel flamethrower with a smily face reflex sight on the G11(they better not mess up the G11).--[[User:N-10 Aden|N-10 Aden]] 21:15, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

At this moment, I am not bothered about weapons that don't exist at the time, but more on original choices. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:Kinda of agree with you there, sorta disappointed though that they made the M16A1 burst fire in Multiplayer. Though it's hard to say exactly when all these guns appear, while yes we were told it was starting in Vietnam but IT could possibly star in other timezones too. From what I've gathered, you play as multiple characters so it's possible you could play as multiple characters in different time periods, 1 in Vietnam, another in Cold War and maybe a few fictional war zones in the early 2000's [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, it seems that original M16 without forward assist is in game. Anyway - As far as i know M16A1 fired in 3-round bursts, no ?
:::The A1 is full-auto. The A2 and A4 variants fire bursts. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]] 10:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I dont like how they use the correct 20 round mag model but make it hold 30. Hopefully the burst/30 rounds is online only, like in cod 4 where the m16 was full auto SP but burst MP.

== CZ75 ==

JUst curious, does anyone think that the CZ-75 might be the Automatic version of the weapon. Granted Treyarch wasn't going to add Machine Pistols but since it's the last handgun in the list and it costs 750 credits would it be possible? I mean Bad Company 2 had their 93R as their last unlock which was a machine pistol [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 08:28, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

: Well, it doesnt have to be automatic. CZ-75 is superior to all other handguns from list in real life.( maybe besides Colt Python ) - Its better than Makarov, ASP and even M1911 in all "stats" . Its probably best 9mm handgun.

::Not too sure as to how it would be better than a .45 caliber 1911. I can see it being better than the ASP or Makarov due to their small magazines of 7-8 rounds compared to the 75's 16 (9mm). Of course it does open the slight possibility that an Automatic conversion kit is available as an attachment [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Its not just about calibre or mag capacity. CZ-75 is more accurate, bullet is faster and i think its lighter. Anyway - Its sure that heavier cartrigde is allways better :) But i would take CZ75 to combat instead of M1911.

:Maybe the developers just read a lot of Gunsmith Cats, and took Rally's speech to heart, but the possibility that it may be an automatic makes me sigh. I hope it isn't.-protoAuthor 16:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, The CZ-75 is not more accurate than a 1911
Secondly, there is no "best" 9x19 millimeter pistol, its all personal preference,
Thirdly, the .45 is a better combat round due to its lager grain bullet and more dispersion of energy on contact,
and Lastly, while caliber is not the most important factor, the .45 A.C.P is superior to the 9x19mm because the 9 is a small lightweight bullet, while the .45 is a large heavyweight bullet.
P.S. sign your posts.
~~ PunisherDave

The Punisher (2004)

2010-08-27T18:23:25Z

PunisherDave: /* Mossberg 500 (sawed-off) */

'''Check the discussion section for list of Cutlery and Vehicles used in the film.'''

'''The following guns were used in the film ''[[The Punisher (2004)]]'':'''

[[Image:PunisherDVDextendedcut.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''The Punisher (2004): Extended Cut (2005)'']]

==Colt M1911A1 (customized)==
Frank Castle ([[Thomas Jane]]) uses a pair of heavily customized [[M1911A1]]s as his main sidearms in the film. His father Frank Castle Sr. ([[Roy Scheider]]) devoted some dialogue to the guns, commenting on how he bored the chambers, customized the triggers, and added some thread-on compensators. Some other notable feattures are their Novak night sights, the ''Smith and Alexander'' extended magazine wells, combat hammers and combat triggers, ''Kings Gun Works'' extended slide stops and extended slide releases, as well as ''Ed Brown'' Memory Grove beavertail grip safeties and front cocking serrations. The leg holster is not a Safariland 6004 but a custom Blade-Tech Tactical Thigh Holster.

An E-mail from the current owner of the guns explains:
'''"The pistols are 1911's and the slide is marked COLT'S GOVERNMENT MODEL. The sight attached to the slide is marked NOVAK'S upside down. The slide is the same shape as a normal 1911's but on the sides towards the left and right there is a grid design."'''

[[Image:ColtM1911A1PunisherProps.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The two blank firing prop Colt M1911A1s used in the film - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:Colts_1-1-.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|The two rubber prop Colt M1911A1s used in the film for stunt work.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-SAA-LeMat-ColtNavy.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle Sr. keeps his two custom M1911A1 pistols in a glass display case.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle takes the two Colt M1911A1s out of his father's display case after his family is massacred by the Saints.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle readies his Colt M1911A1s when he faces off with Dante and Spoon in the Saint building.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle fires his right M1911A1 at Spoon.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle fires his left M1911A1 at Dante.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An over-the-shoulder view of Castle taking out the two men with his .45s.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After facing the two men, one of Castle's .45s jams. Maybe he should have used different ammo so it wouldn't misfeed on him.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle keeps his hand close to his back-holstered .45 when Harry Heck enters the diner.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle dishes Sardines from a can with his .45 close by.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle loads his right .45 when preparing to face Saint in the club.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle loads his left .45 when preparing to face Saint in the club.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle fires his .45 in the club. Thomas Jane's weapons training is clearly evident.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle does a mid-mag change with his .45...]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and pointlessly racks the slide despite having a round in the chamber, which he loses for doing this.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle with his .45 at the ready.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle fires his .45.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle does another mid-mag reload and pointlessly racks a live round from the chamber. He loads the first round of his mags with a hollow point round, so he chambers it instead of taking the risk of having the round jam his gun. ]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-18.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle pops a round into a half-dead thug as he walks by.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle quick-draws his .45 and takes out Howard Saint.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-20.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle decides not to commit suicide after imagining his wife witnessing him die.]]

==M4A1==
Frank Castle is seen using an [[M16|M4A1]] fitted with an [[M203 grenade launcher]] and an Aimpoint CompM2 red dot sight when assaulting Howard Saint's club ''Saints and Sinners''. He loses use of this weapon when a bullet from enemy fire hits the receiver and ruins the gun.

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M4A1 with Aimpoint CompM2 scope and fitted with an M203 launcher - 5.56x45mm and 40mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherM4A1-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle is seen in a military picture in his classified file with an M4A1.]]
[[Image:PunisherM4A1-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle's M4A1 is seen in his inventory as the camera pans over.]]
[[Image:PunisherM4A1-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle racks the charging handle on his M4A1 when loading up to face Saint in his dance club.]]
[[Image:PunisherM4A1-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle checks the bottom floor of the club with his M4A1. It seems smarter for him to use his bow as to not break stealth before facing the mass on the second floor. He also appears to lack trigger discipline.]]
[[Image:PunisherM4A1-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle with his M4A1 at the ready.]]
[[Image:PunisherM4A1-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle assaults the club with his M4A1.]]
[[Image:PunisherM4A1-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle fires his M4A1.]]
[[Image:PunisherM4A1-8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle readies his M4A1 before it gets hit by a bullet.]]

===Special===
[[Image:Punisher-SF-M4A1-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Thomas Jane practices weapons techniques with his M4A1.]]
[[Image:Punisher-SF-M4A1-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jane loads up his M4A1 for weapons training.]]

==LeMat 1861==
Seen in Castle Sr.'s gun case is a [[LeMat Revolver|LeMat 1861]] percussion revolver.
[[Image:Lemat.jpg|thumb|none|400px|LeMat 1861 Revolver - .36 or .44 caliber.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-SAA-LeMat-ColtNavy.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A LeMat is seen to the top right.]]

==Colt 1851 Navy==
Seen in Castle Sr.'s gun case is a [[Colt 1851 Navy]] percussion revolver.
[[Image:Colt1851-Navy.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt 1851 Navy - .36 caliber.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-SAA-LeMat-ColtNavy.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Colt Navy is seen to the top left.]]

==Colt Single Action Army==
A [[Colt Single Action Army]] 5 1/2" Artillery is seen in Castle Sr.'s gun case.
[[Image:ColtSingleActionArmy.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Single Army 5 1/2" Artillery - .45 Long Colt.]]
[[Image:PunisherCustom1911-SAA-LeMat-ColtNavy.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Colt SAA Artillery is pictured in the middle.]]

==M203 grenade launcher==
Castle's [[M16|M4A1]] is seen fitted with an [[M203 grenade launcher]], which do to such close proximity battles is never used during the shootout in the club. The original movie poster also prominently feattures Castle holding an [[M16|M16A2]] fitted with an M203.
[[Image:M203.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M203 grenade launcher - 40mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherDVDcover.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle on the movie poster with an M16A2/M203.]]
[[Image:PunisherM203-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle loads a 40mm round into his M203. One wonders what good it will do him in such close quarters...]]
[[Image:PunisherM203-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle closes the breach on his M203.]]

==Cobray M79LF==
Seen next to the M203 launcher in Castle's arsenal is what appear to be a [[Cobray 37mm Launcher|Cobray M79LF]] flare launcher with the stock folded up.
[[Image:CM79LFSide.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cobray M79LF - 37mm Flare.]]
[[Image:PunisherCobrayM79LF.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobray M79LF to the right, under the M4.]]

==Beretta 92FS Inox (flashpaper)==
Howard Saint ([[John Travolta]]) is seen using a [["Non Guns"|Beretta 92FS Inox "Flashpaper"]] gun, which is designed to imitate the flash and smoke of a blank gun minus the loud sound and dangerous wad which fires from the barrel. Instead of swapping to a real Beretta, it appears to stay a flash-paper gun throughout the film, so I'm seperating it from the real Inoxes used.
[[Image:Ng pistol beretta92 SN.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Flashpaper Beretta 92FS Inox.]]
[[Image:Punisherflashpaper92-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Howard Saint uses his flashpaper Beretta 92FS Inox to execute the man supposed to be watching his son when he was killed.]]
[[Image:Punisherflashpaper92-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saint executes the man with his flashpaper Beretta.]]
[[Image:Punisherflashpaper92-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saint tries to draw his flashpaper Beretta when facing Castle near the end of the film, but isn't quick enough in comparison.]]

==Beretta 92FS Inox==
The stainless steel [[Beretta 92 pistol series|Beretta 92FS Inox]] makes several appearances in the film in the hands of nameless thugs. The most notable user is Dante ([[Marc Macaulay]]), one of Saint's hired thugs, who tries to draw it when facing Castle with Spoon ([[Terry Loughlin]]) at his side in the Saint building.
[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS Inox - 9mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherBerettaInox-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A money launderer in the Saint Building tries to reach for his Beretta 92FS Inox when Castle enters.]]
[[Image:PunisherBerettaInox-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dante prepares to draw his Beretta 92FS Inox when facing Castle in the Saint Building.]]
[[Image:PunisherBerettaInox-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A thug in the dance club fires his Beretta Inox at Castle.]]
[[Image:PunisherBerettaInox-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A thug fires his Beretta Inox at Castle, and manages to break his M4.]]

==Ruger SP101==
One of the money launderers in the Saint Building tries to draw a [[Ruger SP101]] revolver when Castle walks in.
[[Image:RugerSP101.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ruger SP101 - .357 Magnum.]]
[[Image:PunisherRugerSP101.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The launderer to the left tries to draw a Ruger SP101.]]

==Heckler & Koch G36C==
When Bobby Saint ([[James Carpinello]]) tries to impress his father by buying guns, he meets with Otto Kreig (Frank Castle under-cover), who shows Bobby 4 suitcases loaded with [[Heckler & Koch G36|Heckler & Koch G36C]] assault rifles. I didn't bother adding all 4 suitcases because it looks like they just reuse the same shot 4 times and flipped it twice.

[[Image:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36C - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherG36C-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Kreig's thugs open up the briefcases loaded with H&K G36Cs.]]
[[Image:PunisherG36C-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|They then open the other cases. Note how the ejection port is not on the right side and the folding stock is in the wrong direction, the instant result of reversing the image.]]

==Colt Officers ACP==
When the FBI raids the weapons transfer, Otto Kreig (Frank Castle under-cover) draws a tutone [[M1911|Colt Officers ACP]] which apears to be customized, before being "killed".
[[Image:Colt Officers ACP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Officers ACP - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:PunisherKimberCopII.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle as Kreig draws his Colt Officers ACP. Castle seems to have a fondness for 1911 guns (smart man).]]
[[Image:PunisherOfficersACP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Kreig" tries to fire his Officers ACP at the officers but is "gunned-down" first.]]

==Micro Uzi==
Several of [[Uzi|Micro Uzis]] are seen used by Saint's men when they massacre Castle's family. Most notably seen using them are Dante and Spoon when they both fire their Micros at Maria Castle's ([[Samantha Mathis]]) car, and manages to flip it with them.
[[Image:MicroUziPistol02.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Micro Uzi - 9mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherMicroUzi-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dante shoots a man trying to escape on a boat with his Micro Uzi.]]
[[Image:PunisherMicroUzi-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dante fires his Micro Uzi while Spoon prepares to.]]
[[Image:PunisherMicroUzi-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dante and Spoon fire their Micro Uzis at Maria Castle as she tries to drive away with Will Castle ([[Marcus Johns]]).]]
[[Image:PunisherMicroUzi-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dante and Spoon fire their Micro Uzis.]]

==Mossberg 500 (sawed-off)==
When Saint's men massacre Castle's family, one of the assassins is armed with a sawed-off [[Mossberg 500]] Field shotgun with a cut down Ribbed barrel and stock. Castle picks up the same Mossberg and tries to save his wife and son. Castle fires off four shots, which pattern like buckshot rounds, before running dry.

[[Image:Sawed-off mossberg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mossberg 500 shotgun edited to resemble gun in film - 12 gauge.]]
[[Image:PunisherMoss500-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A hitter looks for hidden family members with his sawed-off Mossberg 500 at the ready.]]
[[Image:PunisherMoss500-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle fires his Mossberg 500 at the hitters in the Ford Pickup.]]
[[Image:PunisherMoss500-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The action of the Mossberg 500 appears to have engine grooves and the wooden forend has more fanciful engraving than a standard field gun. This was at one point a higher end shotgun before it was cut down.]]
[[Image:PunisherMoss500-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle pumps the Mossberg 500, and clearly no fresh round chambers.]]
[[Image:PunisherMoss500-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|''CLICK!'' Castle's Mossberg 500 goes empty when he needs it the most.]]
Trivia: When Castle first begins firing, he racks the shotgun, ejecting a live round from the chamber, which would have greatly helped him out when he faces the men as they exit the truck.

==Mossberg 590 "Compact Cruiser"==
When Castle goes to the Saint Building to dump all his money into the street, he takes a [[Mossberg 500|Mossberg 590 "Compact Crusier"]], which is the perfect gun to stash in his trench coat. He uses the gun to force Saint's money launderers to dump the money from the top floor and "rain 100 dollar bills."
[[Image:MossbergCompactCruiser.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mossberg 590 "Compact Cruiser" - 12 gauge.]]
[[Image:PunisherMoss590CC-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle points his Mossberg 590 "Compact Cruiser" at the money launderers.]]
[[Image:PunisherMoss590CC-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Get up.... wheel the money out."]]
[[Image:PunisherMoss590CC-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle puts down his Compact Cruiser and then turns his back to them to cut open the window... with the gun still there. Not very smart thinking.]]
[[Image:PunisherMoss590CC-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle forces the men to throw the money out the window.]]

==Ithaca 37 (pistol gripped)==
Lincoln ([[Tom Nowicki]]) uses an [[Ithaca 37]] shotgun with nickel plating and a pistol grip throughout the film. It is not a Stakeout model, as it is too long. When using it to shoot Castle's vest in the dance club, he puts two 12 gauge rounds into his body armor from less than 10ft away. Though this might seem impossible, a level IIIA Vest can easily withstand shots as powerful as 00 Buckshot.
[[Image:Stakeout-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Ithaca 37 "Stakeout" - 12 gauge. (closest to model in film).]]
[[Image:PunisherIthaca37-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lincoln shoots Castle Sr. in the back with his nickel-plated, pistol gripped Ithaca 37 shotgun.]]
[[Image:PunisherIthaca37-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lincoln fires his Ithaca 37 into Castle's vest.]]

==Intratec TEC-9==
Some of the hitters who help massacre Castle's family are armed with [[TEC-9]]s, which clearly have sling swivels (although these shots don't show them), which a TEC-DC9 lacks. They were likely converted to full-auto by the armorer for the film.
[[Image:TEC-9.jpg|thumb|none|400px|TEC-9 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherTEC9-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A hitter approaches the family reunion party with his TEC-9 in hand.]]
[[Image:PunisherTEC9-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A hitter fires his TEC-9 at Castle and Castle Sr. while taking cover behind a grill.]]

==Savage/Stevens 311A==
When the hitters begin to massacre Castle's family, Castle Sr. takes out two [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun|Savage/Stevens 311As]] for himself and Frank. The two both uses them to great effect and Castle scores two kills with his, one of which by means of blowing up a propane tank on a grill. They are smooth-bore shotguns because they are clearly seen loading birdshot shotgun rounds into them. Based on slight difference in the trigger guard and pistol grip/tang area, these appear to be Spanish Eibar copies.
[[Image:Savage-Stevens-311-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Savage/Stevens 311A - 12 Gauge.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311A-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle digs out some 12 gauge birdshot heavy game loads from a Remington box.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311A-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle loads 12 gauge rounds into his Savage/Stevens 311A. Note the fired primer, this is a dummy inert round.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311A-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle shoots the Mossberg wielding thug with his S/S311A, loading it just in time. It looks like he fired both barrels at once. Ouch.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311A-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Like all typical shotguns in movies, Castle's gun is shown capable of sending this guy flying. They are birdshot none the less (although no type of shotgun round would send someone airborne anyway unless it was a high explosive round).]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311A-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Both Castle and Castle Sr. with the S/S311As at the ready.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311A-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle Sr. aims his S/S311A.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311A-7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle and Castle Sr. fire their S/S311As.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311A-8dent.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle takes aim with his 311A. Someone seems to have dented the barrel more than half-way down the gun.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311A-9.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle Sr. with his 311A at the ready before being shot by Lincoln.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311A-10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle wraps the 311As in a rug when he arms up after the massacre.]]

==Sawed-Off Savage/Stevens 311A==
Castle appears to saw down one of his 311As later in the film, and turns it into a sawed-off shotgun. Castle brings this gun with him when he raids Saint's club, holstered on his back, and manages to kill one of his thugs with it.
[[Image:SS311A sawed-off-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sawed-off Savage/Stevens 311A - 12 gauge.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311Asawedoff-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle checks the chamber on his sawed-off 311A.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311Asawedoff-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle runs a bore mop through his sawed-off 311A.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311Asawedoff-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle looks down the barrels of his sawed-off 311A.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311Asawedoff-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle loads up his sawed-off 311A when preparing to face Saint's club.]]
[[Image:PunisherSS311Asawedoff-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle fires his sawed-off 311A in the club, and of course, send the thug flying off his feet.]]

==Steyr SPP==
Several thugs in the film are seen armed with [[Steyr TMP|Steyr SPP]] pistols, which appear to be converted to full-auto based on the one instance it is seen firing.
[[Image:SteyrSPPPistl.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Steyr SPP - 9mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherSteyrSPP-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A hitter finds a family cowering under a house and heartlessly executes them with his Steyr SPP.]]
[[Image:PunisherSteyrSPP-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot of him firing the SPP.]]
[[Image:PunisherSteyrSPP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A half-dead thug holds an SPP in the club.]]

==Heckler & Koch USP45==
Spoon ([[Terry Loughlin]]) is seen with a [[Heckler & Koch USP]] handgun in his holster when facing Castle in the Saint building. Based on the length of the grip, it looks the the .45 ACP model, the USP45.
[[Image:HK-USP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch USP45 - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:PunisherUSP45.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A USP45 is seen in Spoon's holster.]]

==Cobray M11/9==
One of the arms dealers is armed with a [[MAC-10|Cobray M11/9]] when the FBI raids the exchange. Bobby Saint points his gun at him by mistake and is shot by him in return.
[[Image:M11 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Cobray M11/9 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherCobrayM119-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A thug fires his Cobray M11/9 at Bobby Saint.]]
[[Image:PunisherCobrayM119-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The thug gets filled with bullets from the surrounding FBI agents after firing his Cobray M11/9.]]

==Walther PPK==
Bobby Saint ([[James Carpinello]]) keeps a stainless steel [[Walther PPK]] as his weapon. He is killed before he ever gets a chance to use it.
[[Image:PPK_stainless.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Walther PPK - .380 ACP.]]
[[Image:PunisherWaltherPPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bobby Saint sits a the bar in the dance club with his Walther PPK next to him. (extended cut).]]
[[Image:PunisherWaltherPPK-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bobby tries to de-escalate the situation and gets mowed down for it.]]
[[Image:PunisherWaltherPPK-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bobby lays dead with his Walther PPK at his side.]]

==Glock 17==
The [[Glock|Glock 17]] 2nd generation is seen multiple times in the film by nameless thugs but is most notabley seen used by Jimmy Weeks ([[A. Russell Andrews]]), who they delve deeper into character-wise in the extended cut.
[[Image:Glock17EarlyModel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Glock 17 2nd Generation - 9mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock17-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Officer Jimmy Weeks fires a blank loaded Glock 17 at Castle, under cover as Otto Kreig, to fake his death.]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock17-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|One of the money launderers keeps a Glock 17 nearby.]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock17-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Weeks with a Glock 17 in his FBI holster. (extended cut).]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock17-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This thug who later gets a paper-cutter to the head holds a Glock 17 like he's never seen a gun in his life.]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock17-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The thug walks by "Spacker" Dave ([[Ben Foster]]) when they search for Castle in his apartment.]]

==Glock 18==
One of the weapons seen in Castle's arsenal is a chrome slide [[Glock|Glock 18]] 3rd Generation. (while it is not confirmed as a Glock 18, the 33 round magazine and stock indicate it possibly is, or is supposed to be.) Sadly, he is never seen using it despite being seen preparing it before leaving to assault Saint's club.
[[Image:Glock18c 01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Glock 18C - 9mm. Basically the same gun with ported compensator cuts in the slide.]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock18-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A chrome-slide Glock 18 is among Castle's arsenal.]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock18-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Glock 18 is seen as the camera pans over Castle's arsenal. Note how it is fitted with a stock and a 33 round magazine.]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock18-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle attaches the stock to the Glock 18.]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock18-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle loads a 33 round mag into the Glock 18.]]

==Glock 19==
One of the thugs in Saint's dance club is seen using a compact [[Glock|Glock 19]] 2nd generation, which based on the angle appears too short to be the same Glock 17 used in other scenes.

[[Image:Glock19pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Glock 19 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock19-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A thug fires his Glock 19 at Castle and over does the recoil too much.]]
[[Image:PunisherGlock19-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The thug tries to reload his Glock but is sent flying by two 12 gauge rounds before he succeeds.]]

==Heckler & Koch Mk. 23 SOCOM Mod. 0==
Seen fitted with a suppressor in Castle's arsenal is a [[Heckler & Koch Mk 23 Mod 0|Heckler & Koch Mk. 23 SOCOM Mod. 0]]. Reportedly, one of Saint's thugs that walks into Castle's apartment is armed with the same prop, although it is never seen closely.
[[Image:PunisherMk23SOCOMprop.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Heckler & Koch Mk. 23 SOCOM Mod 0 rubber prop used in the film.]]
[[Image:PunisherSOCOMk23.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Heckler & Koch Mk. 23 SOCOM is seen to the left at the bottom of his customized M1911s.]]

==Armsel Protecta==
Harry Heck ([[Mark Collie]]) is seen using what looks like an [[Armsel Striker and variants|Armsel Protecta]] to fire shots at Castle's Pontiac GTO, but he luckily has metal shields that slide up over the windows to protect himself.
[[Image:Protecta.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armsel Protecta - 12 gauge.]]
[[Image:PunisherArmselstriker-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Harry Heck fires his Armsel Protecta at Castle in his GTO.]]
[[Image:PunisherArmselstriker-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Heck fires the Protecta at Castle as he drives away.]]

==Taurus Model 689==
Harry Heck ditches his Striker when Castle totals his GTO and gets out, armed with a [[Taurus Model 689]]. Castle pulls out a spring loaded stilleto (basically an amatuer ballistics knife) and fires it into his neck before he can use it. Castle than takes the gun and leaves in Heck's Satellite.

[[Image:Taurus_M689.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Taurus Model 689 with 4" Barell (one in film is 8") - .44 Magnum.]]
[[Image:PunisherHHrevolver-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Heck walks up to Castle with his Taurus Model 689 in hand.]]
[[Image:PunisherHHrevolver-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Heck points his Taurus Model 689 at Castle.]]

''[Edit: This pistol actually appears to be a Dan Wesson. Notice the placement of the front sight, the flat profile of the vent ribs on top, the shape of the barrel (particularly the shape of the underlug) and the shape of the grip.]''

==Heckler & Koch MP5A5==
Some of the FBI agents that make the illegal weapons sale bust are armed with [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Heckler & Koch MP5A5|Heckler & Koch MP5A5]] submachine guns. One of the thugs in the club is also seen with one.
[[Image:H&KMP5A5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A5 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5A5-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The officer to the left fires his MP5A5, which has a sight mounted way above his eyeline.]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5A5-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Officers armed almost entirely with MP5A5s.]]
[[Image:the punisherMp5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A thug is seen with an MP5A5.]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5SD4==
One of the FBI agents is seen firing a [[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5SD4]], which is a full-stock MP5A4 with an integral sound suppressor.
[[Image:H&KMP5A4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A4 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherMP5SD4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The officer to the right fires his MP5SD4.]]

==Smith & Wesson Model 66==
When Castle is "safe-guarding" his apartment, he places a stainless steel [[Smith & Wesson Model 66]] into a custom made drawer launcher, which kicks out the drawer when the counter is tapped. Castle tries to grab this gun when he is attacked by "The Russian" ([[Kevin Nash]]), but he grabs a weight and smashes the barrel flat.

The weapon crushed by Kevin Nash in the movie was a real S&W Model 66 that was actually destroyed just for the film.

[[Image:IMG 1561.JPG|thumb|none|400px|A Smith & Wesson Model 66 in .357 Magnum that was destroyed for ''The Punisher''. This is the actual gun that was smashed by The Russian in the movie, as you can tell by the barrel.]]
[[Image:IMG 1562.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Another view of the Smith & Wesson Model 66 that was used (and smashed) in ''The Punisher''. This image gives a better view of the crushed barrel.]]
[[Image:PunisherS&W66-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle tests the launcher drawer with his Smith & Wesson Model 66.]]
[[Image:PunisherS&W66-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle tries to retrieve his Smith & Wesson Model 66 when fighting The Russian.]]
[[Image:PunisherS&W66-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|While it is blurry, you can see the S&W Model 66 is cleary crushed before The Russian smashes it.]]
[[Image:PunisherS&W66-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle looks at the bent Model 66.]]

==SIG-Sauer P226==
John Saint ([[James Carpinello]]) uses a nickel-plated [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series|SIG-Sauer P226]] throughout the film. He most notabley uses it when he puts a bullet in Castle's chest, claiming "This time they're not blanks."
[[Image:SigP226Nickel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226 Nickel - 9mm.]]
[[Image:PunisherSIGsauerP226-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John Saint executes a woman with his SIG-Sauer P226...]]
[[Image:PunisherSIGsauerP226-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...which stovepipes on the second shot.]]
[[Image:PunisherSIGsauerp226-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John's SIG-Sauer P226 is seen in his shoulder holster as he beats on Castle.]]
[[Image:PunisherSIGsauerP226-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John prepares to execute Castle.]]
[[Image:PunisherSIGsauerP226-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle has a flashback of when he is shot in the chest. The bullet apparently just missed his heart.]]
[[Image:PunisherSIGsauerP226-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John becomes pinned under a book-shelf when Castle assaults the club and his P226 is just out of reach. Note double stack bulges.]]

==Heckler & Koch P2000SK==
One of the thugs in the club is seen armed with a [[Heckler & Koch P2000|Heckler & Koch P2000SK]] and tries to use it before he recieves a .45 between the eyes from Castle.
[[ Image:H&KP200SK Right.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch P2000SK 9x19mm]]
[[Image:PunisherP2000sk-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|This thug armed with a P2000SK gets a bullet in the head before he can fire his gun.]]
[[Image:PunisherP2000sk-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The thug falls back dead with the P2000SK still in hand.]]

==Taurus Snub==
Castle is seen in the extended cut giving Jimmy Weeks ([[A. Russell Andrews]]) an unknown Taurus Snub (It looks like a Model 605, but has a Smith & Wesson genuine adjustable sight). Weeks takes the gun and tries to kill Castle, but the gun is empty. Castle gives Weeks a single bullet and watches as he commits suicide for ratting him out to Saint and having his family killed because of it.
[[Image:Taurus617.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Taurus Snub.]]
[[Image:PunisherTaurussnub-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle sits in Weeks' house with the Taurus Snub in hand.]]
[[Image:PunisherTaurussnub-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle leaves the Taurus Snub on the chair for Weeks to pick up. Note how it has a long Smith & Wesson style sight but looks a lot like a Taurus.]]
[[Image:PunisherTaurussnub-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Weeks tries to shoot Castle but the gun is empty.]]
[[Image:PunisherTaurussnub-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle gives Weeks a bullet and watches. The bullet looks like a .357 Magnum.]]
[[Image:PunisherTaurussnub-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Weeks loades the bullet into the snub.]]
[[Image:PunisherTaurussnub-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Weeks prepares to commit suicide with the snub.]]

==M16A2 with an M203 Grenade Launcher==
On the original movie poster for the film, Castle is seen armed with an [[M16|M16A2]] assault rifle fitted with an [[M203 grenade launcher]].
[[Image:M16A2 M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A2 (with A2 rear Sight, brass deflector, heavy barrel and longer buttstock) 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:PunisherDVDcover.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Castle of the movie poster armed with an M16A2/M203.]]

==M18A1 Claymore==
Castle has an [[M18A1 Claymore]] anti-personal mine among his arsenal, and uses one with a beeper detonator to blow up one of Saint's money transporting boats.
[[Image:M18a1 07.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M18A1 Claymore Anti-Personal Mine.]]
[[Image:PunisherClaymore-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle prepares an M18A1 Claymore Mine.]]
[[Image:PunisherClaymore-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Claymore mine is seen in Castle's armory as the camera pans over.]]
[[Image:PunisherClaymore-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John Saint picks up one of Castle's Claymore Mines. Note how it has a beeper detonator with a "555" number.]]
[[Image:PunisherClaymore-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John realizes what the Claymore is and dives off the boat, just barely escaping.]]

==M67 "Baseball" Hand Grenade==
Among the weapons in his arsenal, Castle has a handful of [[M67 hand grenade]]s, one of which he keeps attached under the sink in his bathroom. He also keeps a switch near by which shuts the door so he can throw the grenade out and shut the door to protect himself from the blast. This technique proves inefective when he tries it on The Russian, who uses a pipe like a baseball bat and whacks the "baseball" right back into the bathroom. Castle just barely makes it into the bathtub to avoid the blast.
[[Image:M67.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M67 "Baseball" Hand Grenade.]]
[[Image:PunisherM67baseball-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle attaches an M67 "Baseball" Grenade to the sink in his bathroom.]]
[[Image:PunisherM67baseball-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Four M67 Baseballs are seen in Castle's arsenal as the camera pans over.]]
[[Image:PunisherM67baseball-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle readies the M67 grenade to throw at The Russian.]]
[[Image:PunisherM67baseball-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|To Castle's horror, the grenade comes right back into the bathroom, ready to blow.]]

==Unknown AP Mines==
Castle brings some Anti-Personel (AP) mines with him to assault the dance club. One he plants on the main entrance, which is set off when someone tries to run out. The second mine he sends up the dumb-waiter hidden in a wine bucket. When the man goes to pull the wine out, the whole rooms blows up. The last mine he uses to leave John Saint at the mercy of his own willpower. He claims the AP mine weighs 8lbs, which isn't much, but then he outstretches his arm and ties the fuse to a hanging piece of insolation. He then says how holding that mine up with an outstretched arm would be a "hell of a work out."
[[Image:PunisherAPmines-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle plants an AP mine on the front entrance of the dance club.]]
[[Image:PunisherAPmines-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A henchman pulls out the wine bottle from the bucket, unbeknownst to him it is rigged to an AP mine.]]
[[Image:PunisherAPmines-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The henchman than activates the mine and blows the room to hell.]]
[[Image:PunisherAPmines-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another henchman tries to run out the front door and sets off the AP mine, making yet another devistating explosion to the building.]]
[[Image:PunisherAPmines-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle puts the AP Mine in the pinned down John Saint's outstretched arm.]]
[[Image:PunisherAPmines-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close-up of the mine in John's hand.]]

==Unknown Remote Mines==
Castle brings an unfathomable number of Remote Detonation mines with him, which he plants on all the cars in the parking lot. When he sets them all off, a sky view reveals "The Punisher" skull drawn with flame.
[[Image:PunisherRemotemines-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle checks the remote mines in his arsenal inventory.]]
[[Image:Punisherremotemines-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle plants mines under the cars. They appear to stick using magnetics.]]
[[Image:Punisherremotemines-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle plants another mine under a car.]]
[[Image:Punisherremotemines-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle sets off the mines in the parking lot with the remote detonator.]]
[[Image:Punisherremotemines-5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After blowing up the cars in the lot, the sky view reveals this.]]

==Compound Bow==
While not a firearm, Castle does some nice stealth kills with a compound bow. Anyone who knows what type is welcome to comment.
[[Image:PunisherCompoundbow-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A compound bow and arrows are seen in Castle's inventory when the camera pans over.]]
[[Image:PunisherCompoundbow-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle assembles his compound bow when preparing to assault Saint's club.]]
[[Image:PunisherCompoundbow-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle fires the compound bow, shooting an arrow right through a guard's neck.Ouch. ]]

==ANIMATED SEGMENT==
An extra on the extended cut is an animated segment built to illustrate the deleted scene of Frank Castle serving in the Gulf War, during a battle in Kuwait. The following guns are seen in this segment.

Behind the scenes note: The weapons used in the flashback animated sequence were a mix of airsoft, metal replica, and a few real guns. The soldiers shot on green screen were airsofters, not actors, and not real military.

===AK-47===
During the deleted animated segment taking place in Kuwait, an enemy soldier can be seen firing a gun that vaguely resembles an [[AK-47]].
[[Image:Ak 54.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-47 - 7.62x39mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-AK-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An enemy soldier fires an AK-47 in the animated segment.]]

===Beretta 92G Elite II===
Seen in the hands of a U.S. officer is a [[Beretta 92 pistol series|Beretta 92G Elite II]]. He is seen loading it up and then it disapears, being replaced by a simpler M9. The 92G Elite II was not issued during the Gulf War nor was it even made yet so that's somewhat of an anachronism.

This is a Airsoft gun its a Tokyo Mauri Tac Master --[[User:Sarkardarkstar|Sarkardarkstar]] 18:47, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

[[Image:Beretta 92G Elite II.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92G Elite II - 9mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-BerettaElite-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An officer loads a magazine into his 92G Elite II. Note how the decocking safety is activated, yet the hammer is up. Also, the back sight has been removed.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-BerettaElite-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An officer chambers his 92G Elite II, finger on the trigger like no real soldier would do.]]

===Colt Model 723===
Some of the U.S. soldiers are seen firing [[M16|Colt Model 723]] carbines. Some of the enemies are seen using them as well.
[[Image:Colt-M-16-A-2-m723.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt Model 723 - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-Colt723-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A soldier in the back fires a suppressed Colt 723.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-Colt723-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A soldier fires his suppressed Colt 723.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-Colt723-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An enemy soldier fire a Colt 723. This shot was reversed so I flipped it proper.]]

===M14===
A U.S. soldier is seen firing an [[M14 Rifle]] briefly.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M14 - 7.62x51mm NATO.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-M14-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A U.S. soldier fires his M14.]]

===M16A2/M203===
Both Jimmy Weeks and an unknown soldier are seen using [[M16|M16A2]] rifles fitted with [[M203 grenade launcher]]s.
[[Image:M16A2 M203.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A2 with M203 - 5.56x45mm/40mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-M16A2M203-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A U.S. soldier with an M16A2/M203.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-M16A2M203-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Weeks with his M16A2/M203.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-M16A2M203-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Weeks fires his M16A2/M203. This shot was reversed so I flipped it proper.]]

===Heckler & Koch MP5SD3===
Some U.S. soldiers are seen armed with [[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3]]s. Castle is briefly seen firing one, in a MASSIVE continuity error.
[[Image:MP5SD3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 - 9mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-MP5SD-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A U.S. soldier with an MP5SD3.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-MP5SD-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle fires his MP5SD3, which switched from another gun.]]

===Remington 870===
Some U.S. soldiers are seen with a folding stock [[Remington 870]] shotgun and Castle grabs one and charges an enemy position with it.
[[Image:Remington870LONGFolder.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 with extended mag tube and folding stock - 12 gauge.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-Rem870-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A U.S. soldier armed with a folding stock Remington 870.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-Rem870-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle takes cover with his 870 in hand.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-Rem870-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle holds a freshly fired 870.]]

===Colt Model 715===
One of the enemy soldiers is seen firing an M16 with an A1 sight but with an A2 reciever, making it a [[M16|Colt Model 715]].
[[Image:Colt715 C7Rifle.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Colt Model 715 (known as the C7 for Canadian Armed Forces) - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-Colt725-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An enemy soldier fires his Colt 715 at the U.S. soldiers.]]

===Norinco Type 69 RPG===
An enemy soldier is seen firing an [[RPG-7|Norinco Type 69 RPG]] with an over-sized warhead. It can be most easily identified by its single grip and carry handle as opposed to the dual grips on an RPG-7.
[[Image:Type69RPG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Norinco Type 69 RPG - 70mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-RPG7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An enemy soldier fires a Norinco Type 69 RPG. Note over-sized warhead.]]

===Beretta M9===
A [[Beretta 92 pistol series|Beretta M9]] is seen used by the U.S. officer to attempt to kill the captured enemy soldiers but he is stopped by Castle.
[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta 92FS - 9mm.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-M9-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The officer prepares to execute the enemies with his M9.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-M9-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The officer about to pull the trigger.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-M9-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Castle forces the officer to fire his M9 into the ground, which was strangley loaded with only one bullet.]]

===M26 "Lemon" Hand Grenade===
A U.S. soldier is seen with a [[M26 hand grenade|M26 "Lemon" hand grenade]] on his belt, which the enemy prisoner pulls off his belt and commits suicide with, killing everyone but Castle and Weeks.
[[Image:200px-M-67handgrenade.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M26 "Lemon" hand grenade.]]
[[Image:Punisher-A-M26hg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The terrorist goes to grab the soldiers M26 grenade.]]

[[Category:Movie]]

Talk:Predators (2010)

2010-08-27T01:43:32Z

PunisherDave: /* Royce */

==anyone seen this yet?==

wondering if its any good -k9870

nm, noticed its out next week

adrian brody really doesnt look right for the part--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 23:21, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
*I think only when weve seen the film can we say, i never would have chosen him, my choice would have been Josh Brolin. But from the film makers point of view 'we could never get anyone to match Arnold' so they've gone down the same route as Predator 2 with Danny Glover.--[[Special:Contributions/86.21.136.74|86.21.136.74]] 23:45, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Original film was the best. Sequels and spin-offs're just BS.
:Eh, Brody has all of the components of being badass, but hes just...adrian brody. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]
Brody plays the part very, very well. He acts like a badass, he fights like a badass, and he is just, generally, a badass. Sure, in the trailer, he doesn't look the part, but by the end of the movie, you've forgotten that he was a wimpy author in Kong, you've forgotten that he was a wimpy Jew in the Pianist. He's just Royce. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 23:34, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
::Agreed, but i cant get the jew/author out of my head when i saw the movie. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Danny Trejo isn't armed with uzi's, watch the HD trailer, they are clearly MP5K's (about 40 seconds into the trailer look at him in the group shot) --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 23:13, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

== youtube content==

if you go onto the predators youtube page, there are interviews with robert where he show sneak peeks of the characters, and there are some fantastic images of danny trejo using his mp5k's that concludes this characters weapons. there are also images of isabelle's, royce's and even some of nolans weapons.

Adrien Brody was a good choice. I mean, most soldiers aren't as big as Arnie, most are just wiry but still really tough.

== How do you know about the guns? ==

I have checked and I haven't seen any trailers up. Can someone tell me where are the info for these guns from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Check out www.predators-movie.com for a sneak peek and there is also a trailer out on the 18th of March.

From the script which was released over the net some months ago and from behind the scenes photos which were released back in January. If you want to get the up to the minute latest, check out AvPGalaxy.net and its forums.--[[User:The Mercenary|The Mercenary]] 19:30, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't matter, almost all the ones that i always take are pretty awful. --[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 01:43, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
[http://www.predators-movie.com/]

Here's a link if you guys are interested, there's a quite a few good shots of the guns in the video and the trailer will be released on March 18th.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 03:03, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Please, pleaSE, CAN I PUT SOME SCREENCAPS THAT I HAVE FROM THAT VIDEO. --[[User:Dillinger|Dillinger]] 17:44, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

::Sorry Dillinger. I'm replacing some of your caps. Just wanted to warn you ahead of time..... :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:11, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Predators 9.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Your original Screencap]]
[[Image:Predators11a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The new screencap]]

[[Image:Predators 10.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Your original Screencap]]
[[Image:Predators12a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The new screencap]]

== Minigun? ==

I saw some new screenshots from SXSW, and the minigun looks ...well, mini. Can it be a XM214 Microgun? That, or the dude carrying it must be HUGE. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 20:13, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

http://io9.com/5493337/screen-shots-predator/gallery/17

Sorry but there is no way in hell that it's a XM214 Microgun. Personally i would love to know who built the weapon as this makes a possible seventh real handheld Minigun made for cinima. Other than Kurt Russel and the man in Revenge of the fallen, everyone using a handheld Minigun in film has been huge with Arnold being 6'2" and 240#, Jesse Ventura being 6'5" andf 250#, I'm not sure how big bill duke is but he is not a small man. Plus Miniguns are not as physically big as most people seem to think. I have physically picked one up and without the ammo and power system they are small. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 20:35, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
:Maybe it's forced perspective then, because I know Jesse Ventura is a huge guy, and "Ol' Painless" looks a lot larger in his hands than the Predators minigun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 20:44, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
You got that right as having seen a RL minigun and having spoken with someone who has handled a RL XM214 there are none in film. The XM214 is a tiny weapon that you can easily hold in one arm. think about the lenght of an M4 carbine. .22 longrifle minigun prototypes are about the lenght of a P90. From the looks of the weapon in question I would like to watch it expell brass to estimate what they have geared the weapon down to.

I've seen a minigun in a meuseam, it's actualy pretty small. BTW, how do we know about the script? Did some one of the armorers on here see it and then post here?

There was A LOT of forced perspective used in Predator to make the Minigun look more impressive. There were more shots devoted to showcasing the weapon than the two guys carrying it. There are some behind the scenes shots of Jesse carrying the weapon and it doesn't look so massive. The M60 foregrip assembly also adds a fair bit of bulk to the weapon, which isn't present in any other incarnation of the Minigun. In reality the overall length of a handheld M134 falls somewhere between an M4 and an M16. The XM214 is even smaller.

Anyone know what tac vest and backpack Nikolai had on? --[[User:Sidewinder Forge|Sidewinder Forge]]

haven't seen the movie yet but could be one of these
http://www.blackhawk.com/product/STRIKE-LBE-Harness,53,2.htm
http://www.blackhawk.com/product/STRIKE-Commando-Recon-Chest-Harness,721,129.htm

==Royce==
Anyone able to ID royces pistol, id guess at a desert eagle based on size and the fact they were used by everyone i predator 1, danny glover in 2 and a few ppl in avp1. Also Royce using the AA12 may be a homage to concrete jungle the first spin off comic and book from the original where dutches brother used an auto shotgun to take out the first predator. --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 03:00, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Based on the new screencaps i'd say it looks more like a custom 1911 variant - any ideas? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 01:55, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

looks like MEU SOC variant although I cant be sure

Technically speaking, ''nobody'' in Predator used a Desert Eagle. Yes, they carried them as sidearms in holsters, but ''carrying'' and ''using'' are two different things. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:41, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that is handgun is a kimber desert warrior

[[Image:KimberDesertWarrior.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MEU(SOC) Pistol\Kimber Desert Warrior, .45 ACP.]]

Of Coarse!...A unknown 1911 and someone thinks its a Kimber Warrior, suprise suprise. Rail or no rail its a warrior, G-10 tactical grips or regular old wood grips and there is still someone somewhere that thinks it is a Warrior. But when it is all said and done it is very rarely a Warrior. --[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:53, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

It appears to either be a 1911 variant, or a custom Desert Eagle which would be black with ivory/white plastic grips, which would be unique indeed, therefore, I assume that it's a 1911 variant. I don't think it's a Desert Warrior, though it does bare some resemblance to the Kimber Warrior II. If it's a 1911, it either has ivory grips, similar to the pistol in Heat, or it has white plastic grips, grips of the Warrior. There is no great picture of this gun, however, it appears to have something extended past the grip, so if it's a 1911, it's probable that it's a Kimber. We can't tell if it has rails or not, but it obviously doesn't have wooden grips. While there is no way of positively identifying this pistol yet, saying 'It can't be a Kimber and you're a moron for thinking it is' is completely unfounded. Unless you can provide evidence as to why you think it isn't a Kimber, other then the simple fact that people have been wrong about things being Kimbers before, your argument has no weight. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:03, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Number one, there is no such thing as a Kimber Warrior II...there is no II about it, it was built to military spec there for never got the "II" kimber safty. Number two, sorry I came off as a "Moron" but just because you can see a G-10 style grip doesnt make it a Warrior...and i din't say anything about it not being a Kimber...just the Warrior aspect of it because alot of people are quick to say its this 1911 or that 1911. There are true custom 1911 out there and I like to keep a open mind and not just yell out "its a Kimber narf" --[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:53, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, I have no clue if there is such thing as a Kimber Warrior II, as I've never owned one, but was merely basing what I called it on the picture on the 1911 page which noted it as such. That, however, is irrelevant to the basis of this conversation, whether it is possibly a Kimber or not. Second, I never called you a moron, and I'm sorry if you took it that what. What I was implying is that you were being overly hostile and insulting by all but saying that it was impossible for the pistol to be a Kimber, simply because people have claimed that handguns were Kimbers before and were wrong. The word moron was in quotations. As I was saying in my first comment, however, I'm not arguing that the pistol definitely is a Kimber. To do so, with a gun that gets so little screen time in the trailers, before the film even comes out, would be neigh impossible. What I was saying, however, is that, contrary to what you claim, you didn't seem to be keeping an open mind about it. The other user posted that they thought it might be a Kimber Warrior, and you immediately attacked the idea, not because it isn't possible, but because of past preconceptions. Just because Kimbers aren't often used in movies don't mean that they never will. I'm not saying that immediately claiming that the gun is a Kimber on the actual page is correct, since it obviously wouldn't be. However, the user is fully allowed to say 'I think this pistol is a Kimber Desert Warrior', and borderline insulting him for it isn't a great way of handling it. Remember, part of this site is figuring out what kind of guns are used in the movies, and it's impossible to do that without making educated guesses. In this case, a Kimber Warrior isn't that bad of a guess, since the gun has an extended section of the mag past the grip, and the grip is of a G-10 style, as you said. Unless you have a better guess, simply saying that his is incorrect just because other people have maid similar guesses before is not valid. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:18, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I never said that it wasnt a kimber warrior and sorry for allowing it to be viewed that way...my original statement was more of a general statement towards the warrior being listed alot when it isnt even close (this one being very close but undetermined) like on the NCIS page and the Rise of Cobra page and few others for example. Sorry for causing the arguement.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Anyone know who makes the tactical vest the royce character wore in the film? love that extra shell capacity. great movie too. holds up to the orig. imo.

:It was simply a MOLLE vest with several pouches attached. Leapers makes a fairly inexpensive one. Oh and Royce's .45 actually had ACU patterned grips, but you only see a glimpse of them in the movie. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Miltec makes these vests in various colors they cost 40 dollars or something like that often used by airsofters

it looks like a Condor® MOLLE Tactical vest without the pouches, NorthwestShooterSupply.com has what I can see is the closed thing to it, aside from his is wore/dirty and the clips on Royce's are Tan, NWSS.com's are black. Buts it's damn close, and if you want the shell holder Royce has on his chest, their 215 Gear Shotgun Shell Holder Vertical, google it. Now how he riggs the knife between the holder and the vest "is up in the air."

Just got my Condor® MOLLE Tactical vest, it's exactly like his, even the front buckle and side reliefs are tan. O.o

No matter what variant it is, it is always a Warrior.. It's kinda funny... Its almost like everyone thinks that the only maker of the 1911 is Kimber.... NEWSFLASH GANG! Colt was the first to produce the 1911 and 1911-A1, and then Springfield Armory was the second! not Kimber, WHAT A SHOCK! Smith and Wesson, Wilson Combat, Taurus, Para-Ordnance, and many other companies make 1911's.. and many of the models have tactical rails... and many are made to mil-spec.. Oh, and Kimber has crap customer service.. :) [[PunisherDave]]

==Cuchillo's (Danny Trejo) UZI's...==
It's pretty safe to say we ain't gonna see any UZI's in this.
I think we should remove the UZI section, because the UZI's described in the script have obviously been changed into two H&K MP5Ks, based on the trailer(s) and various production stills released on the internet (see below). It would be a bit silly for him to carry MP5Ks ''AND'' UZIs... Also some other weapons have been changed, e.g. Isabelle's (Alice Braga) Blaser was originally a Heckler & Koch PSG1 in the script.
[[Image:Preds004.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Danny Trejo is holding two MP5Ks, not UZIs. It is highly unlikely he'll be having two UZI's strapped to his back, since the script only mentioned two UZIs (which have obviously been changed into two MP5Ks.)]] -- [[User: Warejaws|Warejaws]], March 29, 2010, 13:47 (UTC)
*I don't see why not if a more conclusive image can be obtained, BTW Isabelle's rifle was changed as soon as the teaser came out.--[[User:The Mercenary|The Mercenary]] 23:43, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
:: I dont think a sniper rifle is the best weapon to use ageist a predator.

a sniper is useful, remember the first movie where two of them see it in the distance, then say they want to get close and get wrecked when they move up. Now imagine if they ahd two scoped rifles instead of mp5s. "There it is!" bang. bang. Movie over.

Plus, she wasnt exactly preparing herself to be capture by a alian life form and then taken to a distant plantet where she would be hunted..She, instead prepared herself for basic military action here on earth against human rebels. Which a sniper rifle is very effective against human when in the hands of a sniper. [[Spades of Columbia]]

true, but the only problem is finding it when it cloaked

:I don't think that would be too much of a problem for a sniper. Remember, they're hunters, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:52, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
::If, by hunters, you mean a collection of murderers, mercenaries, and other very violent people, then yes.
:::I'm talking about ''snipers''. Snipers are hunters, too. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:54, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

== Replaced Weapons ==

Predators was originally Predator 3 written in 1993, so probably the Weapons were changed with more modern Guns. One thing that bothered me was why replace a Micro Uzi with MP5k's. I guess the modern equivilent would have been the MP7.
:Probably because MP5Ks are much more common and easier to acquire than MP7s would be. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:03, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Cartels dont usually stroll around with super high tec wepons. A mp5 makes more sense than an mp7.

I agree, look at No Country for old man, plus where would he even get a steady flow of ammo for a MP7.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 22:27, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

== Just seen it (spoiler warning!) ==

I just got back from it, it really was good, like predator 1 good. A few observations, Chuchillo (trejo) has a 1911 variant holstered at his back, and the black dude from the death squad also carries a 1911. A soldiers dead body is also seen gripping a 1911, they seem to be very popular in this film. Royce never draws his side arm so who knows what kind of 1911 variant it actually is. Royce appears to use FRAG 12 amunniton in his AA12 in the first encounter with the predators and Nikolai makes impressive use of a claymore mine. I think ive got away with that without giving away any spoilers. I was also very impressed to see Royce re filling the drum mag from his AA12 from the cartridges on his vest, and Nikolai even reloads his mini gun! Shame he doesnt appear to be able to hit fuck al with it. Its just a crime that no one called the preds ugly mother fuckers in this film, part from that it really was good.--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 22:24, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:So no "You ugly mother fucker" ? Damn, that's just the trademark line from a Predators movie [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

::Wrong! The classic line is included, in Russian. Nikolai says it just before he takes the Tracker out. A friend who speaks Russian translated it. Told me it literally comes out as "In your face," or something similer, but it wouldnt be a stretch to put it as "You're an ugly motherfucker." - Mikey

I love when the criminal is says to Chuchillo "come on give me a gun, you got two fucking guns, and you russian, you got a bigass gun give me something" You see all these holstered weapons and nobody gives him anything.

If you were a soldier or special forces guy and you ended up in some weird jungle with a bunch of others like you and you see an convict wearing orange...would you give him a gun? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:04, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Compensators seem to be somewhat popular as well, as both Isabelle and Hanzo have them on their sidearms. The convict guy, he did a pretty good job for being armed with nothing a shank, though. And Royce... well, to put it simply, ''he's the new Dutch''. I didn't think he was right for the role, either, but boy, was I wrong indeed! All in all, I have to admit I like the AvP movies a ''little bit less'' now... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:58, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Anyone else notice that Royce was armed with Billy's (from the origina Predator) huge knife, which he used on the hounds, I loved all the little nods to the old films ''Cummahn, Im right here! Kill me!'' --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 14:35, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I think Adrien Brody was a good choice for the part. If you ever see a special forces soldier in person or pictures most of them are normal looking guys. Adrien Brody looked in shape. I think thy cast the roles very well in the movie.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 15:54, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

The Yakuza sword fight was just awesome. It was like the scene with Billy from the first movie. Taking off his shirt, telling the others to go and drawing his blade out to challenge the Predator, but unlike the first movie, we actually SEE a sword fight and it was epic as hell. This movie is far superior to either of the AvP movies. And though I wished they got a more cliche cast of actors, Adrian Brody did really well [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Anyone knows what the pistol Oleg was using?

-Tokarev? It looked single stack and about the same dimensions, and would make sense, didnt see any clear shots.

-Could it be some 1911 variant? It appeared to have a lot of recoil

I thought it looked like a Stechkin APS because of the long tapering barrel, tho he did only shoot it semi auto. The swordfight as pure genius, the wind in the grass was just awesome, theres always room for an old fashioned samurai face off --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 19:03, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Crap, I knew I recognized Brody's knife from somewhere, but I couldn't place it. I fail as a ''Predator'' fan... :( But, yeah, the sword fight was indeed awesome. BTW, since we're talking about things that could spoil the movie for someone who hasn't seen it, I added a spoiler warning to the title of this discussion. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

i didnt see the doctor twist coming and thought lawrence fishburne would be a main character, not just a small role.

Where were the guns that are listed in Nowlands base? I didnt see any of them? Surely if there were guns about the humans would have made off with them in the escape? Or maybe I was just being blind. There are some excellent shots of the AA12 on Imdb now by the way, not that we dont have enough shots of the AA12 but its a beautiful gun --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 01:15, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, the doctor twist was really ingenious. Also, did anyone notice that the bound Predator looked exactly like the original Predator from the first movie (identical helmet and all)? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:28, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

did anyone else notice that Brody didnt shoulder his AA12 once during this film. he always fired from the hip, maybe a lack in training given to the actors as he ment to be ex special forces? anon

i love how he actually has them relaod, uses different ammo types and uses the light on his surefire forend. The bound predator was supposed look identical, they wanted a 'classic" vs super predtor battle.

So...is it safe to assume that Cuchillo's side weapon was a shiney Colt .38 super, or is that being too speculative...and some what raciest? I did really like the movie and how all the Characters handled their weapons.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:31, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Cuchillo's sidearm was clearly a 1911 model, with ornate engravings, this makes me assume its a mark IV series 80 ( http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:ColtMkIVSilver_DeNiro_Machete.jpg ) similar to the ones we see in 24 (series 3), machete, and dean winchester's 1911 from supernatural. --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 01:02, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I know right, pretty sweet side arm!...but would it be too presumptive to think a movie would be realistic enought to make Cuchillo's 1911 a .38 Super?--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 14:05, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

It's possible (he never fired it, no need for blanks.) but unlikely.

What movie were you watching? He shot an entire mag at rapid fire!--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 15:11, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Cuchillo never fired the 1911. Just his mp5ks.

No, he pulled and fired his 1911 on the Predator Hounds.[[User:Humanzie3|Humanzie3]]

Thank you, i was waiting for someone not anonymous to back me up.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:00, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
:I'll vouch it as well,, Cuchillo definitely pulled and fired his pistol at an oncoming hound. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 06:03, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, Spades is right. Cuchillo definitely pulled his 1911 and shot numerous rounds at one of the charging hunting dogs. Sort of like Brody should have done, instead of grabbing his machete and cutting it in half. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 23:48, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

And there's nothing racist about Danny Trejo's character. He made a career being a method actor. He's spent prison time for robbery and drugs, so he knows exactly how to play a tough Mexican character. He pretty much invented that look and cliche [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:02, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I was asking if I was being more raciest for assuming it to be a .38 super not for Trejo being cliche.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 18:14, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I think caliber ascends beyond race, its just ammunition, and he did empty the mag the last time we see him alive, shame he didnt use his knife, you dont fuck with danny trejo and his knives --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 23:07, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't the Grenades be credited to Edwin instead of Noland...since Edwin is the one that technically used them ;)--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 23:56, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Well if we are being really honest it was berserker predator (or jaws as i was calling him) that used them --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:18, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Just wondering, I know Royce's machete was the same as used by Billy in Predator, but does anyone know what type of knife he keeps strapped to his vest, behind his shotgun shells? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 23:48, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The knife is a TOPS Steel Eagle 107C -John

== The Predators ==

I updated the names of the predators as they are credited and named for the upcoming action figures and making of book. They are listed as 'Falconer' predator - the super pred with the robo bird on his shoulder with the metal spikey mask. 'Tracker' predator, the one we se holding the hounds at bay with the 2 tusks on his mask, who makes friends with Nikolia. And the 'Berserker' predator the one with the jawbone on his mask who takes on the classic predator and fights royce in the finale. The classic predator was simply named as you would expect, classic predator --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:26, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Hanzo's Beretta ==

I'm looking at the pictures of Hanzo's Beretta right now (especially the second picture, where he draws it from his coat) and it's obvious that it isn't a plain Inox with custom grips and a compensator. I mean, it obviously has a compensator and custom grips, but the slide and possibly the barrel are both a different color then the frame. The frame appears to be from an Inox, but the slide and barrel look darker, so I honestly think it's some sort of tutone. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 05:55, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Not really. If you look at the other caps, the barrel is the same color as the slide, so it must have been because it was in is coat, the darkness made the barrel dark color. Some camera filters makes colors seem different [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:01, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the barrel and the slide are the same color. They are a different color then the frame, however, which was what I was pointing out. The slide, and the barrel, are different colors then the frame, and it couldn't just be a trick of the lighting, as no shadow is being cast on them that isn't also being cast on the rest of the gun, and it couldn't be because of the camera filter, either, since that would also effect the entire gun. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:19, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Also, as to something mostly unrelated, does anyone know what brand of compensator Hanzo has attached to his Beretta, or is it a custom design? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 09:12, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Since no one is disputing that it's a tutone anymore, I'm going to go ahead and change it. Can someone get me a picture of a Beretta that is tutoned like Hanzo's, with a blued slide and barrel but a stainless frame? Until then, I'll be using the closest thing I've got. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 14:53, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

"does anyone know what brand of compensator Hanzo has attached to his Beretta, or is it a custom design?" I think Steve (User:Phoenixent) one of the armorers on this site built it. Knowing some of the work he's done in the past, it was probably custom built.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:30, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks. I was thinking of getting one, but seeing as it's custom made, I guess I'm SOL. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:34, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
::Ask him [[User talk:Phoenixent]] he's real good about answering questions, but it may take a while to get back to you.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 15:39, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

What makes you think Hanzo's Beretta is Two Tone? It looks like an inox with ivory grips and a compensator to me. If you're talking about how the slide's darker then the frame, alot of Beretta inoxes are like that with the slide and barrel being darker then the frame, just look at this Beretta 92FS Vertec.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 18:01, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Beretta-92FS-Vertec-SS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

Actually, while the picture you've posted doesn't have the same look as the one in the film, with a darker slide and barrel, but it does turn out that I was wrong, at least partially. It wasn't a blued barrel and slide on a stainless frame, it was a stainless barrel and slide on an alloy frame. Here's a message I received from the gun's creator.
::Hi Jack, I custom built the compensator for Hanzo's Beretta. The comp in integrated into the blank conversion of the pistol. I also checked my reference photos for that project and the pistol has a stainless slide and barrel with a alloy frame. I believe the the two tone look is from the lighting and lens filters during filming. Photo two showing him draw his weapon show that it has a stainless top end and alloy frame. Hope this answers some of you questions. -[[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]] 16:25, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
So yeah, it turns out that while I was wrong about the kinds of materials that went into the gun, it is technically two toned, since, because of the camera filter, the alloy shows up as being lighter then the stainless parts of the gun. However, I'll leave it up to you guys as to what we should classify it as. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 18:37, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I swear uploading pictures to this site is the WORST !
But here you all go...thank me later...
[[Image:Predators33.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Promotional image of [[Louis Changchien]] as Hanzo with his custom Beretta.]]
Kode38

=moved from main page=
==Unknown 1911==
A [[M1911 pistol series|M1911-type pistol]] is carried by Royce in a thigh holster.
[[Image:Predators7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Royce's 1911 circled in red.]]
[[Image:Predators8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another look at Royce's 1911.]]
On the big screen, there are some great close-ups. I'm pretty sure it is a Kimber Warrior; which is odd because of his tan shemagh scarf and vest, I'd think he'd carry a Kimber Desert Warrior. Weird. -- ST0NEFIELD
Black Kimber Warrior's do come with those grips stock. So I
m sure thats what it is.

-1911 style autos are so customizable that it could be anything, not necessarily a Kimber. Without a clear image of the stamps on the slide, it's not going to be possible to narrow it down to any specific 1911 model.

Your not gonna get slide stamps as the pistol never leaves the holster, though based on the grips and odd magazine butt plate I too say kimber

The Kimber Desert Warrior and Warrior are gimmicks by Kimber to make money off of the Pistol they produced to equip USMC (MARSOC) operators. The Warrior is supposed to be built to the same specs, and the Desert Warrior is the same with a brown paint job. Most real fighters would never field such a cartoon pistol.

Looks like it has a nickel or stainless steel finish. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 18:43, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I can almost swear that it had a TRP style magazine well...you could only really see it when Royce grabbed the grip that one time during the entire movie.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:14, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

It did have a magwell like that. Just saw it. But you can get those after market to so dosent mean its a TRP 1911. The grips are Kimber tan ones. They just get dirty so kind look like ACU. Shame he never used it.

Kimber are not the only ones that uses or has access to G10 grips...there are other 1911 makers that use that styling of grips.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 15:29, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Mombasa uses what looks like a standered GI 1911 when he has Stans's shank to his throat.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 23:18, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. It was standard with nickle finish. Pretty sure Cuchillo's was the same prop.

Dead soldier with hole in his chest also had a 1911 with the slide locked back in his hands. Funny, they said he was supposed to be in Afghanistan but was wearing tiger stripe!

--Cuchillo's sidearm wasn't "standard". It was customized with some kind of ornate plating. -- [[User:Warejaws]] 19:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

ok...I think i have it, based on grip design and the magazine well that looked like a trp but not quit, i'm starting to think it might possibly be a Nighthawk Enforcer. Side by side without viewing marking stamps they look identical.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I think spades is right. Unfortunately we will never know unless we contact the armorer. =(

So who made the final decision on this one and what evidence does he have? And how do you explain the Magazine well that has never been on a Kimber Warrior but for some reason is in this movie?--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:41, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I concur with this. There is no clear shot of the slide marking showing the Kimber logo here, and there are MANY models of 1911 pistols with coyote brown micarta grips on them aside from Kimber's. This should be classified as an Unknown 1911 Government Model since there is no proof of the pistol even being made by Kimber, let alone being the specified model.

:''After seeing the movie twice, I see absolutely no definitive proof that Royce's pistol is a Kimber of any kind. On the contrary, the grips on his gun (which, frankly, are all that we ever see of his gun) are nothing like what is found on a Kimber Warrior.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 07:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Well I just checked out the licensed toys that are coming out for the Predators film and I know it is only a toy but these companies make sure they get every detail of every part of the character right, there's a picture, not brilliant, but a picture none the less of the toy gun un-holstered and I can guarantee you that the toy company rang the armourer to get it spot on... enjoy link as I can't figure out how to post pictures. GraizeONE. http://bagelsncheesey.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/hot-toys-16-scale-predators-royce-figure/
:''While Hot Toys is known for their accuracy when it comes to detail, that doesn't always stretch to the weapons. For example, I believe that their deluxe Dutch figure (from [[Predator]]) equips him with an M16A2/M203 combo, when the actual weapon seen in the movie was an AR15/SP1 and a fake 39mm launcher made to look like the M203.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 19:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

You can see the compensator sticking out the end of his holster in the above pictures, so they got that part right. K38

==Unknown Handgun==

Nicholai ([[Oleg Taktarov]]) uses a handgun of unknown make or model, after his minigun is destroyed.

It looked like a Makarov to me. This naturally would fit his character.

Im fairly certain it was a tokarev

Look liked a CZ 52 standing in for a Tokarev. In fact, I'm almost positive it is. Same magazines with the holes on it when he reloaded it. Was way to angeled to be a Tokarev.

It looks like a Makarov, judging by the shape and size. But when we see it on Blu-Ray we'll get a better look.

The barrel was much too short to be a Makarov, and it was too angled to be a Tokarev, so I have to agree, it was a CZ 52.

He fires of 8 rounds before the pistol runs dry. though we cannot be certain he has a ful magazine to start with most weapons in this movie didnt seem to have 'hollywood' magazine capacities - --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 11:29, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

-TOKAREV TT33... Single stack with a VERY tall non adjustable V-notch rear site is the tell all. The Tokarev fires a 7.62 X 25mm cartridge which, with the right rounds, delivers more foot pounds of energy on target than a 45 caliber. Sad to say but true. Hence the high recoil. They are real beasts. I own one. I know. Also not a CZ 52 (which I also own). The CZ 52 is significantly thicker/bulkier/heavier than the Tokarev although it fires the same rounds as the TOK and generates even MORE foot pounds of energy due to it's slide roller locking mechanism. It also has a very small rear V-notch site which is about half the size of that on the Tokarev. That very tall rear site is a dead giveaway. Look again and you'll see what I mean. :?)

The CZ 52 does hold 8 rounds. =)

But so does the Tokarev and the Makarov, so this really doesnt narrow it down much more was my point --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 01:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Could his pistol be an M1911? - Venom3945Marine

No...but i believe mombasa's sidearm is...most likely a GI model or even a Star model B or something like that.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 21:38, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

As i said above Mombasa is carrying a 1911, he has it tucked away behind him for a left handed draw, odd as he handles his AK with his right, he never gets a chance to fire it tho --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 01:36, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== The "Vietnam-Era" Claymore ==

"When Nikolai (Oleg Taktarov) sees Noland's weapons cache, he eyes a M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel mine on the table. '''He's startled because its a Vietnam-era Claymore, revealing just how long Noland has been on the planet'''. Nikolai apparently grabbed the Claymore mine offscreen, because he is seen using it prominently later. "

This irked me. Noland says he has been on the planet for 10 seasons. During the movie, the humans seem to go through 2 full days. At the end of the movie, a new batch of humans and predators is seen falling in. One would assume that a season is ~2 days. And, if Noland was a scavenger like he said, you don't get fat by living that way.

I am not saying that Noland has been there for 20days only. I would not think you loose your mental health in 20 days. Just how that sentence was worded makes it seem like he was born and raised there.

There were no new predators being dropped in. Those cages were animals that they also hunt. They would probably have to wait at least a year for more predators to show up, assuming by that line that the seasons are 3 years long, or Noland's gone bonkers and lost track of time.

A vietnam era claymore doesnt mean hes been there that long, there were authentic samaurai swords, does that mean he lived in feudal japan? Hes scvenged from people who were there a while.

Sorry to post as an anon, I generally lurk but I had to say something on this on.

:Well, the fact that he is slightly crazy, wearing Tiger Stripe camo pants, and says that he is Air Cav, not to mention he is past his prime, all point towards him being there for several decades. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]

It's kind of ironic that Larry Fishburne, who also started in "[[Apocalypse Now]]" as a Machine-Gunner would star as an insane air cav soldier years later. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 22:58, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:ApnowM60-6.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Laurence Fishburne before he was kidnapped by aliens]]
[[Image:Predators06a.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Looks like He has had no problems finding food on a hostile alien planet for more than 40 years.]]

==Weapons Cache==

i don not see a car-15 or model 29, where are you seeing it?

I asked this to but it got ignored --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 20:54, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

It was in the script........

But not the movie! This isnt the script firearms database, if it isnt actually in the film then why are they on the page? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:30, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree. If it's not in the movie, it shouldn't be on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:19, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

==Tattoo==
Anybody know anyone with a Alien tattoo? Or a Predator tattoo? 'Cause I'm planning on getting one of each.
First I'm gonna get the iconic Alien (pictured below) on my right forearm. Propably then a Predator on my left. Give your opinions and if you know of these kinds of tattoos, give me a yell. Appreciate it. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]]

[[Image:Alien.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]

Talk:Resident Evil: Afterlife

2010-08-16T17:46:36Z

PunisherDave: /* Removed the scarab device and axe */

== Another one? ==

I still can't believe they are making another RE movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::Just don't take it seriously.
:::Unfortunately Excalibur, I'm with the others on this one. Just don't watch it and stop complaining about it ;) LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:03, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::But I LOVE to bitch about things [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::::I can't wait for this movie. :) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:11, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::I agree with spartan, the movie looks awsome

:::::I for one LOVE these movies. When I heard there is another one I was like "YES, please! Gimme gimme gimme." [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 22:04, 11 April 2010

The only problem I have with the franchise is that the endings are confusing to me. Maybe I'm just not paying close enough attention, but the end of the 2nd film lost me; when they run from the helicopter crash yet return in Umbrella Gear and pick Alice up. Can anyone explain? Anyway, I am looking forward to this film. LASTMANSTANDING
*I wonder why they are still making more of these despite those negative reviews and ratings. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 13:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Becasue they are still making a handsome profit at the boxoffice and video rentals. Who cares about the critics? --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:42, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

==Macedonian Shooting==
it is just me or dose it look like Wesker is using the Russian shooting style called Macedonian Shooting?
:just you

:It's just dual wielding or Akimbo. There's nothing tactical about it. And if only the Russians invent a style for double guns, then it shows you how good it is if the Russians are using it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:28, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

:"Macedonian shooting"? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:00, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:A simple google search of Macedonian Shooting turns up that it was supposedly utilized by NKVD officers who were equipped with two double action revolvers, and was more a method of forcing an enemy to cover than trying to accurately land shots on target. Also Ed McGivern talked about dual wielding in his Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting Book, something about teaching some techniques for it to Law Enforcement Officers of the 1920's or some such, so let's cut the nationalistic horseshit. This isn't the Cold War, you don't gotta kill a Commie for Mommy or whatever. Grow up. --[[User:Toadvine|Toadvine]] 10:53, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
::No you should grow up Toadvine. Don't know where THAT tirade came from. But the Russians currently do a lot of things which western weapons and fighting disciplines look askance at. The 'spider/hand' style of patrolling, the acrobatic Spetznas training, etc. Face it. The Russians do weird things. Or things that seem weird to us. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:37, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
:::Okay, seriously, does anyone actually know if the Spetznaz are trained to do the whole 'Backflipping off a springboard while throwing a tomahawk' shit? Because I've never been sure if that was fact or fiction. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 04:28, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

acora, I don’t think they train to actually use some of their techniques as an actual combat method I think they use them purely to develop the sense in their troops that they are superior to normal soldiers because they can do such cool looking stuff. also I think there’s a fairly cunning amount of psyops going on. "don’t screw with spetznas they are like crazy ninjas" wouldn’t necessarily effect well disciplined troops but it should put the fear of god into the average grunt from around the world. they certainly do have some crazy demostration stuff that they do for open days and base shows. Fenris357 1255hrs 26 july 2010
----

I can't wait for it i loved the first 3

has anyone noticed that Alice's double barreled shotguns have black grips of the first photo?
:Rubber. I think she's gonna smack someone with it or just drop them.

Alice seems to always dual wield every weapon she has. The shotguns and 629's in this film, P-14's and kukris in Extinction, batons, MP5K's and P-14's in Apocalypse. Next thing she probably carries dual M4's, or even M60's. --[[User:AlkoTanko|AlkoTanko]] 13:08, 8 April 2010 (UTC) She was using P-18's in Extinction.
::It looks more badass + bigger firepower. And in first part she packed single beretta if i remember rite.

i thought there was something different with them rubber it is then

nice

==Samurai Edge==
I hope we get to see Weskers custom Beretta.

Seems he is wielding dual Desert Eagles. So tell me as somebody that has not have the movies ruine the game (since i've never played them), what does Weskers custom Beretta look like? Anybody got any pics [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 21:56, 11 April 2010

Just look at the RE5 page.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 22:35, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

After googling it I have to ask: "Am I missing something?". It's just a Beretta 92 with a full dust cover with a rail. [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 07:45 13 April 2010 (GMT)

:You definitely are missing something. It has a bevertail tang (something that no production 92F has), a tactical rail, extended magazine catch, skeletal hammer, plus the multitude of features found on the other Samurai Edge customs (extended slide-stop, custom multi-layered grips, brigadier slide).--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:53, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

:: Fair enough but nothing I cannot do with my Beretta 92 except for the bevertail. I haven't seen that option to buy somewhere. But I did miss something cause the images I got definately didn't show all of those features. Thanks for the info. :) Does somebody have an image to stick here. :) :) [[User:Potentpoefie|Potentpoefie]] 11:38, 16 April 2010 (GMT)

:::Like I said, a 92F beavertail was never put into production, so that means that such a frame would have to be custom crafted. Plus all of the other features together would be well over $1,000 for someone to replicate. And there's no reason to put an image of it here; just go to the RE5 page on this site. All of the customizations can be easily seen there.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 16:05, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I prefer the standard model. Don't really need all that, when it's already a pretty damn nice-looking gun. [[User:Anti-Umbrella Activist|Anti-Umbrella Activist]]

== Sunglasses reflection ==

Actually is is very much Ali's Claire Redfield. Try reading some of the set reports for the movie because IMDB isn't going to tell you anything except for who is playing who.

You know your absolutely right...IMDB is never wrong...EVER. Lets just forget the fact that they had Kacey listed as Jill Valentine for over a month.

Look at Kacey's upwards turned nose and very full lipped mouth.

I don't see anyone commenting on my proof that is is Claire that I posted below. Everyone decide to shut up now that you've been proven wrong?

:That's not a terribly mature response. And start signing your posts.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 21:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

and if you noticed under i did comment that you were right "NICELY DONE" but you remained a dick, i agree entirely with pistol junkie you are immature you are most probably oblivious of that fact.--[[User:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]

:You're not helping things by responding like that, either.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

its my arguement stop butting in im allowed to respond in any way i can and want --[[User:moviemaster1993]]

:If that's your belief, you may want to review the site's [[Rules, Standards and Principles]], specifically Principles.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 09:19, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

...no

anyway you are argueing too if you haven't noticed so you look at the rules too before you start telling others to stop what your doing --[[User:moviemaster1993]]

:I'm not referring to arguing or debating. I'm referring to hostile, profane insults towards other users. It would seem you did not bother to read the page that I linked to.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 12:31, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

calling somebody immature is still an insult nonetheless. the rules apply to everyone even you. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]

:::Well [[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]]. Looks like you got the last laugh. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]] was banned for being a dick and a mega douche. :) Just commenting that's all. :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:39, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

== Wesker vs Chris, Claire and Alice ==

It's called research people. Read it and weep fools.

http://scifiwire.com/2010/04/resident-evil-afterlife-n.php

http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/19697

Oh and here is a side by side picture of the girl in the lens and Kacey. You'd have to be a complete moron to think they even look the same.

http://img173.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=50647_Untitled_3_122_73lo.jpg

Well would you look at this. Seems like Ali Larter herself did an interview for the fine folks over at ShockTillYouDrop.com and wouldn't you know it...she talks about the fight scene.

"Shock: You know that big fight scene coming up next week with Wentworth and Shawn [Roberts]. Have you been practicing? What's it been like?

Larter: We did. We did some stunt rehearsal for that which is great. I think that a lot of the fan boys are going to be thrilled because it is beat by beat from the videogame. It is drawn directly from it and I think with this movie, one of the most exciting things is that this is the most like the videogame. I mean, I'm dressed in the outfit that Claire wears. You see me and Chris in this fight sequence, it's really beat for beat."

source - http://www.shocktillyoudrop.com/news/interviewsnews.php?id=14786

aaaaaah i guess you were right

nicely done

::the movies have already ruined the back story of RE, now they got stuff from RE 5, so yeah, circle complete. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:29, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I don't see how the movies could have ruined the game plot considering both are entirely separate universes. That's like saying Prince of Persia (2008) ruined the plot of the Sands of Time Trilogy even though it had nothing to do with the Sands of Time plot. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:Look, when you make a movie based on something, you expect it to at least respect the source material. The RE movies were only too busy doing cameo moments to the games. Nothing about the story makes sense compared the source it's based on. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:35, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

::Tell that to Uwe Boll --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 05:01, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

::That's just it, these movies are '''based on''' the games, not '''identical to''' them. I don't get why people want video game movies to be word-for-word, scene-for-scene translations of the games themselves. I want to see something I haven't already seen, as I imagine a lot of other people do. I don't want to know what happened or who's going to live and die before the movie even starts filming. Or does playing the games mean I'm somehow not entitled to an original plotline? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:59, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:::It's not that people want an exact replica of the games. We just want something decent. It's hard to make a movie based on a video game, much like making a movie based on a book. The Lord of the Rings series cut out HUGE chunks of the books. It's understandable. How are you going to collapse 600 pages of text into a two hour movie? It's the same with video games. Condensing 6-8 hours of gameplay into 1.5-2 hours of a movie is hard. I think people would mind it less if it was canon, instead of "it's another universe so we can do whatever the hell we want." Degeneration was canon. This is probably the reason that the game fans don't like the movie.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 15:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

::::I found the Anderson movies to be just that, ''decent''. They weren't perfect, but they sure as hell "respect the source material" a lot more than even ''Capcom'' does these days. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:41, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:You seriously believe that Anderson is respecting the source material of Resident Evil better than Capcom? I mean the first 2 movies are ok, but once he started to do the end of the world, Road Warrior look in the 3rd movie. Then with clones of Alice and now he's just ripping off character concepts from RE5... [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

They might as well be. They wasted over six years' worth of material in ten seconds with RE4 (seriously, what the hell), and ended the entire series' plot arcs in two (with RE5).

I liked Romero's script a hell of a lot better, even if it does go off the rails a little; at least it's still ON them.

The problem I have with the movies (even Degeneration) is that they pull all of these BS "character development"; it's PLOT development. The characters aren't even character in their own right anymore, they're just mouths to say cute little quips and trigger fingers to shoot guns with.

[[User:Anti-Umbrella Activist|Anti-Umbrella Activist]]

==Shotguns==

I can clearly see from the stills alice has the revolvers under her arms anf the dual sawn offs on her back. So why does it say she holsters them under her arms. Look at the pics! --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:45, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

it looks like the sholder holsters are connected to the shotgun holsters

the revolvers are in the front ones
and the shotguns are in the back one LOLipops

==Alice==

Alice is really packing some heavy hardware in this movie.--[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]] 24 May 2010 (UTC)

== Akimbo ripoffs ==

Ever since Modern Warfare 2 came out, I think the makers of this movie are playing on the akimbo feature. I mean: akimbo twin-barrels, akimbo revolvers, what more is there? Anybody agree, or see anything?

Hasn't she dual wielded almost everything she's fired since the second movie? --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 04:00, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree she dual wielded her MP5Ks and her Para-Ordnance P-14s. And in the third film she dual wielded her Para Ordinance PXT LDA Light Rails. [[User:AceV|AceV]]

Not everything is an MW2 ripoff. Even if that's where you got all your gun knowledge from. And sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:40, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

i would like to add something. I know my guns but i do like how mw2 teaches people about them.

[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]

Except Modern Warfare 2 is WRONG. About TONS of stuff.-protoAuthor 00:10, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

i was only trying to make the arguement equal for you to stop argueing with people
take the fucking winchester out your ass and stop causing trouble. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]

Shooting guns akimbo has always been in media. I mean, watch any good cowboy movie or John Woo movie. John Woo's movie has perfected the art of double guns in movies [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:56, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree Excalibur01 chow yun fat in a john woo movie perfect akimbo lol
[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]

Shooting guns akimbo is about as old as guns themselves are. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Gotta love how people saying akimbo guns must be based on Modern Warfare, despite the fact that people wielding guns akimbo has been around in movies and television since the 1930's. Hell, I recently saw a Western themed episode of the THREE STOOGES where their cowboy friend pulls 2 pistols at once. Seriously people, just cause MW has something doesn't mean everything else that has that same thing is based on it, ESPECIALLY when said thing has been around much longer than MW. I'll also note MW wasn't the first game to feature it either, Rise of the Triad had it, Blood had it...and these are games that are too old to even run on my current PC. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 13:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Those other games aren't as mainstream thats why. The newer Goldeneye you could dual wield most guns. Most of these people don't understand that MW2 got dual wielding for somewhere else. Unless IW has a timemachine and went back in time and influenced others like John Woo about dual wielding.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:01, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
:Certainly not as mainstream as Halo 2... (note: that was sarcasm) or its ancestor, Marathon, which along with Rise of the Triad were the first game to feature akimbo guns. (They have the same release date.) Heavy Metal: F.A.K.K.² featured the option to wield two non-matching guns at once. Of course, Marathon came out in 1994 - A Better Tomorrow and its iconic portrayal of Chow Yun Fat wielding pistols akimbo in a John Woo movie came out 1986, which would only be around 23 years before Modern Warfare came out. There have been probably '''hundreds''' of video games and movies where a character is depicted as using two firearms at once. From my desk, if I look at my video game collection, I can see ten or fifteen from here. Never mind if I turn and look at my movie shelves. But Google "dual wielding in video games" and most of the hits will be about Modern Warfare 2. Why? Because if the hype about dual-wielding in MW2 is any indication, video gamers have a memory lasting no more than 3 years. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 13:22, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Well gamers who are under 15 years old, which are most of the players. Us "older" guys remember way back then [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:33, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

First game I remember dual wielding is Goldeneye for the PS2, a few years before even Call of duty 3.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:41, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
:Heh, first one I remember is Rise of the Triad, back in '95. You could dual wield pistols, which had unlimited ammo to boot. Absurd, but fun. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 20:36, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

:First game I remember dual wielding in is [[Dino Crisis 2]], with Regina and her two MP5KNs. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:27, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

:Original Timesplitters for me. DOUBLE MINIGUNS!!!1 [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:13, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

== Removed the scarab device and axe ==

These are not guns and should not be on the page [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:34, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
:Agree. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Agree, as well --[[PunisherDave]]

Talk:M1911 pistol series

2010-08-16T17:39:05Z

PunisherDave: /* Caliber question */

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:DanWesson1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Dan Wesson "Panther" 1911 - .45 ACP. A Dan Wesson copy of the M1911A1, note external extractor.]]
[[Image:Kongsberg M1914.JPG|thumb|450px|none|Kongsberg M1914 - .45 ACP. The Kongsberg M/1914 is a Colt M1911 pistol produced under license by the Norwegian factory Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk, with a minor modification to the slide stop and stock.]]
[[Image:ColtMkIVSilver DeNiro Machete.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Custom engraved nickel plated Colt MKIV Series 80 with pearl grips - .45 ACP. This is the screen used pistol for [[Robert De Niro]] playing Senator McLaughlin in the upcoming Robert Rodriguez film [[Machete]] (scheduled for release on April 16, 2010). Though the slide is marked "Mk IV Series 80", it appears to have been a standard M1911A1 frame. ]]
[[Image:ColtCustomXXX.jpg‎|thumb|450px|none|This is the screen used Colt XSE M1911 Pistol, wielded, carried (and lost) by August Gibbons ([[Samuel L. Jackson]]) in the film ''[[XXX 2: State of the Union]]''. This pistol has a customized slide with the initials "A G" etched (for "Augustus Gibbons") and also has the logo for SEAL TEAM 4 in the center - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:T2M1911detonicsprop.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The Colt/Detonics M1911A1 Series 70 hybrid pistol used in the film ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]'' - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:.38Super1911MachinePistol.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The real-life Dillinger's .38 Super M1911A1 Machine Pistol, for comparison purposes.]]
[[Image:SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 1911 PISTOL.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory M1911A1 mil-spec stainless - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:SpringfieldArmoryM1911A1stainless.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory M1911A1 "Mil-Spec" - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:SCM1911A1-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The stainless Springfield Armory M1911A1 used by [[Benicio del Toro|Benico Del Toro]] as Detective Jack Rafferty in the film ''[[Sin City]]'' - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:TitanicM1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A Nickel-Plated Titanic M1911 from Stembridge Gun Rentals - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Strayer-Voigt.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Strayer Voigt Infinity 1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ED 45.jpg|thumb|none|450px|AMT Hardballer Longslide - .45 ACP with laserlock sight as used in the film ''[[The Terminator]]''.]]
[[Image:P1010522ig5.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Actual movie props used by the Comedian [[Jeffrey Dean Morgan]] in ''[[Watchmen]]''.]]
[[Image:Wanted_21.JPG|thumb|none|450px|The Safari Arms Matchmaster used by [[Angelina Jolie]] in the film ''[[Wanted]]'' - .45 ACP. Note Safari Arms Lion logo.]]
[[Image:MilSpec-1911.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Mil-spec M1911A1 - .45 ACP. This was one of the most commonly seen .45s used by LAPD SWAT before the Kimber Custom TLE II.]]
[[Image:0862731R.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M1911A1 Commercial (Same marks of the movie's pistol) - .45 ACP.]]
[[Image:IMG 1509.JPG|thumb|none|450px|A Strayer Voight Infinity - .45 ACP. This is one of the actual guns that has been used by The Company henchmen on ''[[Heroes]]''; this weapon was supplied to the show by Independent Studio Services and has been used on every season.]]
[[Image:SAProTac.jpg|thumb|450px|none|Springfield Armory Loaded - .45 ACP. This is an airsoft replica of the real model.]]
[[Image:PC9111.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield Armory Professional 1911 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:GP WE M1911Peral lg.jpg|thumb|none|450px|An airsoft reproduction of the Springfield Armory M1911-A1 made by J-Armoury (Western Arms) used in the film.]]
[[Image:IMG 1666.JPG|thumb|none|450px|A Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP used on ''[[The Unit]]''. The weapon pictured here was the actual Warrior carried and fired by Dennis Haysbert in the last season.]]
[[Image:IMG 1534.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Another Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP was used in the most recent season of ''[[The Unit]]''. This was Dennis Haysbert's backup weapon in case the first failed (it is customary in Hollywood for each "hero" gun use to have at least one backup on set).]]
[[Image:MGCM1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|MGC Replica M1911A1]]
[[Image:Bruni8mmM1911BlankGun.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Bruni 8mm M1911 Blank gun]]
[[Image:M1911A1ithaca.jpg|thumb|none|450px|World War II Ithaca made M1911A1 with light grey finish - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:PublicEnemies1.JPG|thumb|none|450px|Pre-War Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP used on ''[[Public Enemies]]'' (2009)]]
[[Image:SW1911pd.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Smith & Wesson SW1911PD Tactical Rail - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:CobrGold1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Perfect airsoft replica of Cobra's Colt GC National Match - .9mm Pistol made by Western Arms.]]
[[Image:1911 Longslide.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Custom Colt M1911A1 - .45 ACP. This model is very similar to the one in the episode on the ''[[Miami Vice (TV Series)]]''.]]
[[Image:BDSIIParas-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A pair of Para-Ordnance SSPs (.45 ACP) as used in ''[[The Boondock Saints II: All Saints Day]]''. The weapons pictured here were the actual screen-used guns handled and fired by Clifton Collins, Jr. in the film; note the custom grips, golden suppressors, and "El Jefe" engraved into the slides. ''(Big thanks to [[Al Vrkljan]] at Movie Armaments Group for this IMFDB Exclusive image!)'']]

==Video game appearances of this pistol series==

Why is it that the "Video Game appearances" tables have a column named "Passwords"? I don't think it's for passwords to unlock them, because to my knowledge very few video games actually have a password system to unlock weapons. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a "Notes" after the "Mods" section where certain pertinent but miscellaneous information can be written, such as what copyright-infringement-avoiding name it goes under in the game, or whether it is chambered in a non-standard caliber?

I'd like this cleared up. Oh, and someone needs to include a note saying that "mods" is short for "modifications/customizations for the weapon," not "downloadable modifications to the game itself."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 06:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Frankly I think both the "Mods" and "Passwords" sections can go, since the latter is pointless and the former's purpose can be adequately served by "Notes". --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 15:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

==Colt Government Model Section==
With regard to the following sentence:

''"Aside from Colt selling the M1911A1 to the US military, the gun was also sold under the name "Colt Government Model" to the civilian market, and called the "Pre-Series 70" guns today."''

First, the Colt Government Model was introduced in 1912, and as such, it was originally in the M1911 configuration. When the U.S. Military switched to the M1911A1 configuration in the mid 1920s, Colt began manufacturing their Government Models in the M1911A1 configuration as well. So early Government Models parallel the military's M1911 configuration, while later Government Models (after the mid 1920s) parallel the military's M1911A1 configuration. Additionally, not only pre-Series 70 guns are Government Models. Series 70 and Series 80 guns are both Government Models. In fact, Colt still makes the Government Model to this day in various configurations.

With regard to the following sentence:

''"For IMFDB purposes, this can also be referred to as an M1911A1. In this manner, there is no need to list film, television, anime, video games in this section."''

It is sloppy to refer to a Colt Government Model as an M1911A1. "M1911A1" is the U.S. Military designation for a particular type of gun, and most of them were not even made by Colt (Remington Rand [the typewriter company] made most of them). I can see referring to a gun as an "M1911 type" or "M1911A1 type" if the manufacturer can't be determined, but when you simply type "M1911" or "M1911A1" you are referring to a U.S. Military contract pistol.

On top of that, the pictured gun in the Colt Government Model section is not even a "Pre-Series 70", it is a pre-enhanced Series 80 Government Model.

--[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 21:44, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

:So it's like how we don't call it the Beretta M9, we call it the Beretta 92FS. -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 03:52, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

::With the M9 vs. 92FS situation, it is next to impossible to tell the difference between the two onscreen, unless there is a closeup allowing one to read the markings. In such cases I would say, if a civilian character is using the gun, it is probably intended to be a 92F or 92FS. If a military character is using it, it is probably intended to be an M9, regardless of what the actual prop is. I would assume that most—if not all—movie and TV props are actually 92Fs or 92FSs, because I don't believe that actual M9s have ever been made available for civilian sale.

::With the M1911 or M1911A1 vs. the Colt Government Model (or other brands of 1911-type guns), it is usually possible to tell the difference onscreen without being able to read the markings. For example, the Colt Government Model does not have a lanyard loop. Most M1911A1s were parkerized, while no Government Models were parkerized. When dealing with more modern Government Models, there are even more differences. For example, starting in 1950, Government Models started coming with a full-shelf thumb safety; while all M1911[A1]s had partial-shelf thumb safeties. Also at this time, Government Models started being given a finish with polished flats and matte radiuses, while blued and Du-Lite (similar to bluing in appearance) M1911A1s had polished radiuses and brushed flats or entirely polished (depending on the manufacturer and/or time of manufacture); and of course the more common parkerized M1911A1s were simply all matte.

::Additionally, the newer Government Models as mentioned above have narrow hammers with polished sides left "in the white", and polished chamber hoods also left "in the white". Many M1911A1s had wide-spur hammers, and the ones that had narrow hammers were fully finished (no polished "in the white" sides) and they all had fully blued barrels, including the otherwise parkerized ones (no polished "in the white" chamber hoods).

::Most of the Government Models you see onscreen from the early 70s to the mid-to-late '80s were actually 9mm versions, though they were usually representing a "forty-five" onscreen. This had to do with reliable functioning with readily available 9mm blanks. Colt introduced the 9mm version of the Government Model when they introduced the Series 70 in the early 1970s, and the 9mm version of the CGM had a lowered ejection port (while the .45 ACP version still had the standard military style ejection port). With the introduction of the Series 80 Government Model in 1983, the .45 ACP version also got a lowered ejection port. No M1911[A1] had a lowered ejection port.

::I'll give an example. In the show Magnum, P.I., his gun is blued with polished flats and matte radiuses; polished "in the white" chamber hood and hammer sides, and a lowered ejection port. It is clear from looking that the gun is a Series 70 Colt Government Model chambered for 9mm (though it was always addressed as a "forty-five" in the show's dialogue); and is definitely not an M1911A1. Recently the gun came up for auction and is now in the NRA's National Firearms Museum, and it has been confirmed that that is exactly what the main prop gun was (serial # 70L33101 to be exact).

::--[[User:MaximRecoil|MaximRecoil]] 21:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

==Primary M1911 description==
Who wrote this? The historical paragraph (on the background of the M1911) implies that the M1911 was replaced by the U.S. Military AFTER Operation Desert Storm (1991) which is not true. The Beretta M92 (M9) was already approved and adopted by 1985.

Well for a period of time both the 1911 and M9 were in use by the U.S. military,therefore just because the M9 was in service does'nt mean it replaced the 1911 by that time, and for awhile soldiers actualy got to choose which weapon they prefered :o [[User:Leadback|Leadback]]
======================================
The Beretta M9 officially replaced the M1911 in 1985. They still used the M1911, but they weren't buying anymore. They simply phased them out over the years. Now there are some units in the US military that still use the M1911. The M9 is really only used by conventional military nowadays. For example, the Navy SEALs don't even use the M9 or M1911 anymore. They have the H&K MK23 Mod 0. Which is a purpose-built USP .45. I've even heard of some SEALs using the Ruger Mk. II. It's a .22 target pistol with an integrated silencer on it.

Soldiers were never given the choice to choose. They were given the M9, but many didn't like it. It was big, many could not shoot it accurately, and lots contested the effectiveness of the 9x19 round. Lots of people I work with were in the military around the time of the switch, were given the M9, hated it, and decided just to keep carrying the M1911. It wasn't until they were given an official order that they were forced to carry the M9. And even there, there were times when they went back to the M1911s the military had stored up. For example, out in the deserts. The magazines the military bought were junk, got sand in them, and jammed. The M1911 functioned perfectly. Same thing is happening over there now.

wrong. Special Operations soldiers are given their choice of a sidearm( and assault rifle). 1stSFOD-D has been using 1911s since foundation. infact Larry Vickers (Nighthawk Customs) has worked very closely with Delta Force. Nighthawk 1911s are being used by Delta. 2- the Seals in Vietnam started out with the Ruger Mk II Suppressed. and know one still used the HK MK23. it was fazed out years ago because of how bulky it is. SEALs use the Sig Sauer P226 or USPs. but that is still a generalization. because all SOF have a choice in sidearm [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:20, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==Image Sizes==
The dimensions on a lot of the images are rather large. I'm tinkering with reducing them by 100 pixels each for the sake of conserving page length. Since a lot of people here are familiar with the wiki technology, they know they can click on the images to enlarge the images if they wish.

[[Special:Contributions/68.167.206.53|68.167.206.53]] 04:27, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

: Please don't change the page format. Everything works together now and it took me a long time to fix. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]] 02:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
::Uh sorry, but it's FUBARed again. I am going to try a weird little formatting trick, please bear with me [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:30, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Hold on, I'm gonna see if I can make this work out better... -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:49, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

:::OK, I have fixed it. From now on, it won't matter if anyone hits "Edit" to one pistol (instead of the whole page); the edit won't remove all the other paragraph spaces automatically (which is what was causing the problem). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:32, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

==Para-Ordance==
Shouldnt these guns get their own page? Sure they are a 1911 varients, but their made by a totally different company.[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]] 00:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, but they're 1911 variants. This is the M1911 pistol series page, and they are 1911s. That's why they are on here. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::I would prefer the Para Ordnance series of pistols have their own page due PRIMARILY to the fact that the Paras have a whole slew of different calibers that other M1911 makes and models don't have [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

What calibers does para have that other 1911 manufactures do not have?--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:22, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

== The M in the page title ==

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the M in the page title incorrect? These are Colt 1911s (or 1911a1s, etc.), not Colt M1911s, unless referred to by US military nomenclature, just the same way that a Beretta 92f is an M9 only to the US Army and a SIG Sauer P228 is an M11 only in USAF terms. Just because it's the model of 1911 doesn't make it an M1911, any more than a '67 Shelby GT500 is an M67 Shelby GT500.[[User:YourMessageHere|YourMessageHere]] 08:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
::No. The Colt pistol was formally adopted by the Army on March 29, 1911, thus gaining its designation, M1911 (Model of 1911). Only examples or prototypes prior to the year 1911 would NOT have the M designation (which is extremely rare). Between the years of 1907 and 1910 the Colt pistol was constantly being modified and re-designed to win the Army's trials for adoption of a new handgun. The gun was only mass produced AFTER winning the Army's pistol trials. The Beretta 92FS was already famous world wide and was commercially available as the 92F/FS for YEARS before the Army adopted it. Every 1911 design came AFTER the M1911 (aka Model of 1911) so it is the correct nomenclature. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Using "1911" to refer to any and all pistols based on the M1911 design has only been popular for about fifteen years. Prior to that, the vast majority of such pistols were Colts, and were usually called "Colt .45s", even if they were pistols made by wartime contractors like Remington Rand. Those commercial guns that weren't made by Colt, as made by Vega, Randall, Federal Ordnance, Essex, etc., were called "clones", as they were generally close copies of the Colt. When makers started adding previously "custom" features to production-line guns, and branching into areas that Colt hadn't, a new name was needed, and "1911" became popular. The problem that I have with the various names on the site is the mixing of military and commercial designations; a gun cannot be a "M1911A1 Government Model", as M1911A1 is a military designation, and Government Model is what Colt has always called the civilian version of the "M" military pistols. Colt has made M1911s (1912-circa 1924), M1911A1s (circa 1926-1945), and Government Models (1912-date), but you can't mix or combine those names without confusing the issue.

==WHO KEEPS ON F#$%KING WITH THE FORMAT?==
I noticed yet AGAIN, the pictures are not aligning with their sections. We need to tell these anonymous members not to mess with a page's format if they don't know what they are doing!!!!!!! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I've added a new category (Imbel 1911), but I'm not able to properly aling the picture of the gun with its section. Can anyone tell me what am I doing wrong? (and help me to fix it, please)
:Sign your posts. Also, what you did isn't a category. It's a Section.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:28, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
::Looking at the section, the picture is alinged. I don't see anything wrong.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:29, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

:Actually I aligned it later.-[[User:SB2296|SB2296]]

==Caliber question==
I thought I would ask permission before making this change considering how important this article is: in the specifications category the caliber is listed solely as .45 ACP. I was wondering whether or not that should be changed to include .380 ACP, .38 Super, 9mm, and .40 S&W?
:-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

No, since the ORIGINAL Colt M1911 is .45 ACP Caliber, it should stay like that, since copies of the M1911 maybe have different calibers those should be put on the "copy" section

Agreed --[[PunisherDave]]

==M1991 Series==
I was wondering: what exactly is the difference between the 1911 series and the 1991 series? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 17:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Colt introduced (announced) the M1991A1 in 1991 as a sort of economy version of the Government Model, resembling the military M1911A1, and with the serial numbers picking up where the military gun left off after WWII. The gun was made in that form until about 2003, at which time the finish was changed to polished blue rather than matte blue, and the black rubber grips replaced with checkered wood.
:I heard a guy explain on youtube that 1991 got "extra safety feature" which blocked firing pin movement entirely when trigger was not pressed; allegedly this modification appeared after a incident involving police officer accidentally killing suspect while snapping him with the gun. However, this modification somehow managed to eject firing pin from the slide during decocking so only few people liked it --[[User:Cover72|Cover72]] 21:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

==Terminator 2==
It was my understanding that the 1911 used in the film was a custom Colt frame with a fitted Detonic slide. Was it a combatmaster slide? [[Special:Contributions/65.29.239.251|65.29.239.251]] 09:33, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== blank firers / K911 ==

I've added/moved blank firing Kimar 911 to the bottom of page as told by MoviePropMaster2008 ''("Non-firing replicas of the M1911 belong on the bottom of the M1911 page. Thanks.")'' 
But I wonder, shouldn't there be an entire sub-category of blank firers (with K911 being sub-section of this) in order to distinguish blanks from the real ones? It ''might'' look confusing this way. And also, I made multiple photos of K911 for what I thought would be it's page here including disassembled weapon photo, so perhaps these unused ones might be deleted? --[[User:Cover72|Cover72]] 21:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

==Strayer Voigt Infinity ==
This gun is using a frame from STI, they call that frame the 2011, it's double stacked. And is made from steel and polymer.

:are Strayer Voigt Infinity custom built guns? or just have alot of models? Rex095

The modular frames look exactly like those used by STI. http://www.sviguns.com
Don't know if they collaborate or something. They (SVI) have more optional grips than STI.

Both companies reside in Texas.
::Read up: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc]

Does anyone know the mag cap for a Strayer Voigt Infinity in 45acp? - captain snikt

==Police service pistols==

Before the 90s were American Police ever issued the M1911, or were they're only given to the FBI and SWAT team?

- Some regular state/county/municipal departments might have used a 1911 as a standard duty-weapon before semiautos came into heavy use following the eighties, but I imagine that's a very low number. I certainly don't know of any specific departments myself offhand. Not that many departments use 'em much today. As a 1911 generally was considered a large pistol with a fairly powerful round it wasn't considered easy to use and handle by regular officers. Same general reason why departments in older times stuck with .38s over .357s - The .357 was generally considered too powerful for standard-duty officers. As such, most police departments used 9mms when they first went to automatics in the eighties as there were few semiauto calibers with lower recoil impulse and power at the time than .45ACP.

Some other police units might have used 1911s when it suited them - Homicide detectives in our county's police dept. carried 1911 type pistols, though I don't think that was the county's standard sidearm for uniformed officers. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:04, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

:There's another reason, besides caliber, that the 1911 wouldn't have been too popular in the old days - it's a single-action. Before DA-only became more acceptable (i.e. Glocks), most LE departments preferred handguns that were SA/DA. Almost all police revolvers used prior to the 1980s, like the S&W Model 15 and 19, or the Colt Python, were single- or double-action. This bias continued into the 1980s when a lot of departments started adopting the Beretta 92F and the 3rd Generation Smith & Wesson autos. Now that Glocks have been around long enough, DA-only is finally becoming the standard. But SA-only is pretty much a no-go to any LE agency, and that's the way it was even before the 1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:30, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Isn't Glocks SA-only? The firing pin is cocked by cambering a round?

Would a Smith and Wesson Model 39 or 639 or Colt Commander be more acceptable for police use back then?

- To MT, that's a good point as well. SA weapons do require a lot of training and familiarity to operate effectively and safely, and as such, again, weren't considered practical for regular police officers either. Very good to point out. If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the main reasons why the 1911 fell out of favor in the Armed Forces as well - the fact they required extensive training and familiarity to use and carry safely. DA weapons are easier to train and operate with. Very true.

As for the Glock question, no, Glocks are actually DA only.

As for actions - In a Single-Action (SA) firearm, the hammer must be manually cocked to a firing position prior to pulling the trigger. Just like revolvers of the old west. Double action firearms will both cock and release the hammer when the trigger is pulled. SA/DA firearms use double-action by default, but feature an externally accessible hammer to allow single-action style firing (by cocking the hammer back and then pulling the trigger). Modern revolvers are perhaps the simplest examples of this.

DAO (Double-Action-Only) firearms only fire by double-action as they don't have an accessible hammer for single-action cocking. Such as Glock and various other semiauto pistols.

So if you have empty casing in the chamber, an pull the trigger several times, you would hear a loud click every time because the firing pin would be cocked every time? That's what happens in a DAO gun. If not, it's a SAO.

And on the last question, yes the Smith 39/59 pistols were used by police departments back then. Illinois State Police used the 59 back in the 60s/70s if I remember my Jane's Gun Recognition book correctly. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:07, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Correction, Glocks are not DAO. They fire from a half-cocked position. When you dry fire the gun, the hammer falls and must be recocked by racking the slide, it does not cock by double action springs. That's why the have a slightly heavy trigger pull, they are half cocked, and are brought to full cock and dropped by pulling the trigger. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Versus modern pistols==

One thing I've noticed about this pistol is that almost everyone loves it, as though it were the best, most versatile handgun ever made. But really, what makes this thing, almost 100 years old now, any better than any modern pistols? Really, modern pistols can fire the same rounds, bigger clips, better design, picatinny rails, etc.--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 21:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Familiarity, accuracy, ease of getting parts, feel, simplicity (yes I know there are designs that are simpler, but for what this pistol is, it is simple), many different makes and models of the 1911, modularity, traditionalism. There are many makes and models of the 1911 style that have the same features as many modern "wonder guns". Want more ammo? Get a Para Ord P14, ditto for DA, and DA/SA. Want a 9mm/ 10mm/ etc? there are many types of 1911 platform pistols ranging from .22lr to .44 Magnum. A quote I heard about the 1911 a few years ago is "It's like a '32 Ford Hotrod, its cheap, reliable, powerful, fun, and is easy to make it your own. Just don't think you'll get much mileage out of a tank of gas." Now tell me can you put custom grips, barrels, sights, slides, frames, triggers, hammers, finishes, safeties, slide releases magazines, etc etc etc on a Glock, XD, SIG, Beretta, etc? Maby a few of those, but at what price, and can you do it all? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 08:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

: ''Really, modern pistols can fire the same rounds, bigger clips, better design, picatinny rails, etc.''

- Funny, several pistols I can think of that fit that criteria are little more than updated 1911 pistols. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:08, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

"bigger clips"
: Fail. I believe you meant Magazines. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
ya Unless your talkin about a Mauser broomhandle (which you're not) I would prefer if you said magazine instead of clip

::Actually, that's another thing I'm questioning. Really, what is the difference between the detaachable box magazines and clips? I mean, clips hold bullets for easy loading, right? SO wouldn't modern detachable magazines be classified as clips too?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 20:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Simplest way I can put this - a clip loads a magazine. The magazine is what the gun feeds from - NOT THE CLIP. It just so happens that on some guns, the magazine is affixed to the weapon (the M1 Garand and the Mauser, for example). Thus, users have to use clips to reload them. On, say, a M1911 or an M16, the magazine falls out, thus allowing the user to swap in a new one when needed. A magazine could hold a clip, if so designed...but that particular road is one-way only. --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 20:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

::The "clip vs. magazine" distinction is something that really needs to be clarified, and one of the reasons why I asked for the "general information" section in the first place. Hopefully someone can make a good article there showing the various type of bullet clips and why they should not be confused with magazines. By the way, revolvers when not loaded manually use bullet clips. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 05:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

considering that this page is dedicated to the 1911 which is generally made in .45 does anyone else find it somewhat stupid that our military and most police departments are using handguns that have been known for their lack of stopping power. there are better handguns out there that hold a generous amount of .45 ammunition anyway. for example the Nighthawk FLX holds 12-14. the HK USP/HK45, and the Infinity handgun line are double stacked. and even if most .45s hold 7-10 isnt that enough in most scenarios. 7 .45 slugs does the work of at least 20. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 00:26, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Its the same reason that police used the .38 Special for so many years even after the .357 came out. Politics, logistics, ability to handle the round, etc etc... -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:30, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:With regard to caliber, police need rounds that can penetrate car bodies, doors, walls, etc. .45 rounds are not known for penetration. Also, while the .45 round is more effective against soft tissue than 9mm and .40 S&W rounds, anyone who tries to claim that 7 .45 rounds can do the work of 20 9mm or .40 rounds is completely dillusional. Watch ballistic test videos. A .45 slug entering the body does more damage than a 9mm round entering the body. If you try to claim that one .45 wound is more damaging than 2 9mm wounds with any decent grouping than you clearly have no understanding of physics or human anatomy.

==Variants NOT listed with any film/TV/game appearances==

- I've taken it upon myself to remove several listed variants that had no list of anything that they've appeared in. Guns posted that didn't say they were in anything - Not one movie, TV show episode, video game, nothing. A couple of which I don't think have appeared on anything and seem to have been put up just for the hell of it.

Now I know we have a lot of 1911 variants on the page, but the page is not intended to show/describe ''every'' variant of 1911 ever made, but only those ''that have actually appeared in something'', as quoted by some of the admins. I just find it a bit annoying to have to scroll down the page and see numerous 1911 pistols that have nothing listed under them (Again, with some looking like they were just added for the sake of being there), and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Anyway, clearing said sections out now. If it seems like an unusual or otherwise noteworthy variant, I'll add it to the 'additional variants' section below. Bottom-line, if it ain't actually been in anything, ''don't add it'', no matter how cool it is or whatever. If it has been in something, then next time, don't half-ass - If you're going to bother with the effort of putting it up in the first place, do it 100% and say what it's appeared in. Thanks. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:18, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

==Kimber==
in the Kimber Warrior section it is listed as "Warrior II", which is wrong, the Warrior is built to full military specs and never got the "II" desinated saftey system...so it is just a Warrior because kimber only puts the II on the models they put their special saftey on.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

==Controversy igniter==
I am fully aware that what I am about to say will probably ignite the greatest firestorm of controversy this site has seen in a while. I have fired several 1911 pistols and found them to be a good, solid design. That said, it doesn’t change the fact that I think this is undoubtedly the most overrated firearm in history. Throughout the entire gun community there is the consensus that this is the absolute greatest thing ever conceived by the mind of man and anyone who says anything different is a blasphemer. Again, I am not saying it is a bad pistol, I just don’t think it is best (I won’t say what my top choice is for fear of causing even more indignation to come my way). Though even if it were the undisputed best pistol design around, I still don’t think it would be so significantly greater than other designs as to warrant being the object of the worship and masturbatory fantasies of every gun enthusiast in the world as it currently is. That’s my two cents, I await the fallout.

:I smell a troll.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 17:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I'd say he's not because he seems to explain his point. At least his reasoning isn't 'this gun sukzz' [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 17:42, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:My main reasoning is that the weapons are predominately single action only, which necessitates that they either be carried condition three (which makes the pistol slow to bring into action), or condition one (which many consider unsafe). The double/single action and double action only systems have become omnipresent in most modern combat pistols for good reason. Additionally, while a generally reliable design, many other pistols have surpassed 1911 models in ruggedness and reliability. Another thing that I find odd is the vast variety of weapons that are claimed to be “1911s.” For instance, I have seen subcompact, double action only, double-column “1911s” in many calibers other than .45acp. At this point the only common feature between these weapons and the original Colt 1911 design are a loose aesthetic resemblance. The internal mechanisms maybe similar as well, but many other pistols share a far greater functional similarity to 1911s yet do not bear the moniker. At what point does a gun cease being a “1911” and become something simply trying to cash in on a famous name sake?

It is human nature to emulate successful designs in the hopes of getting a piece of that pie, especially in the modern business world. Less-refined terms for this behaviour include "jumping on the bandwagon" or "riding a gravy train." It's nothing new now in the firearms industry, what with all the AR-15 variants, Glock knock-offs, and (of course) countless "1911-type" pistols around. What defines a "1911-type" pistol is really matter of personal preference.

I would, however, agree that it's foolish to fetishize a type of firearm or a firearms manufacturer just because of its track record or Public Relations budget. There is no such thing as the "perfect" weapon in the real world--every design involves tradeoffs, and that's even before you include the "human factor." Designs can always be improved. What matters most is what you can use the most effectively in a consistent manner. And if you can't, then you ought to get yourself another weapon or train more.

Speaking of "best pistol ever," I remember how H&K tried to label their 4.6x30mm pistol as "the Ultimate Combat Pistol," but it got unceremoniously cancelled, because of "inadequate ballistics in a handgun format." So much for "Ultimate Combat Pistol"--now it joins the legions of "Useless Cancelled Pistols" that came before it. Perhaps it could have had a chance if it were a machine pistol instead, dubbed the "MP7 UltraComPact," in essence an MP7 PDW in handgun format. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:34, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:What I would like to know is what is it about the 1911 that supposedly makes it the best. I've heard people say it is the greatest pistol ever for more than a decade yet never explain what ''specific'' features or advantages it has that make it so good.

You should head on over to the forum and ask that question: "What makes the M1911 pistol so great compared to everything else, and when does an M1911 stop being one and start being a pistol just pretending to be one?" I'm sure there are more people there who could answer your questions better than what you could get here. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

What makes the 1911 the "best"? There are many reasons for the following it has. I am of course referring to the original 1911A1 model, not the double stack nor double action variants. For one, the single action trigger is extremely easy to train with and use by a lot of people. Second, it has redundant safety systems in place. Even with the manual safety off, it will not fire unless the grip safety is fully pressed, though this safety system is seen by a few as a con of the design. Third, it utilized a single stack design. That coupled with the angle of the grip is a very comfortable for a majority of the people. The degree of the grip angle was chosen because, for a lot of people, it is a natural point meaning that one could close ones eyes and bring the pistol up and have it pointing directly at the target. Fourth, it fired the .45 ACP. The .45ACP is a proven manstopper especially when compared to the other rounds utilized at the time of its adoption and until the development of reliable hollow point designs. Lastly, I would argue that compared to many other designs, such as the Mauser C96, Luger,etc..., the 1911 was easily field strip as the pieces of the pistol were designed to aid in the stripping down of the firearm. Compared to todays plethora of firearms, the 1911 is no longer the only pistol to chamber effective rounds or reliability. Why is it still popular then? Because some people still favor the 1911 design. Overrated, I don't think so. There is a reason why it is still chosen over other designs. Is it the end-all-be-all of pistol design? No, I would say it isn't. Anyway, from everything I've read, personal experience, and research that is what I have come up with. [[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 21:15, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:Everything you have described establishes that the gun is a good design, perhaps the best gun around when it first came out, but does not explain it's enduring following. The grip may be confortable for many people, but that is far too subjective to explain why so many people (with so many different hand sizes) still favor this gun. It's single stack magazine make it a confortable target and practical concealed carry weapon, but the limited capacity it offers can be a death trap in a combat weapon (which many still claim the 1911 is the quintessential example of). The .45 ACP is a great round against soft targets, but does not offer very good penetration or long distance acuracy. And with the isistance on reliable "Soldier Proof" weapons in most of today's militaries, many modern pistols are more reliable and easier to strip than the original 1911s. I don't deny that the 1911 was most likely the best pistol in the world when it came out and for a few decades after, but I don't think it still warrents that praise anymore, yet almost every gun Television show, magazine, website, etc. seems to constantly proclaim its supremacy.

To answer your first point. The single stack, thin handgrip is easily usable by people of differing handtypes. You say its subjective but isn't how something feels in someones hand subjective? For example, the M9/Beretta 92FS has a thick grip. Bigger hands have no problem with the grip but smaller hands do. The slim 1911 grip can be used by big hands or little hands. The grip angle is something else that many people find comfortable. You second point that you made was the single stack "death trap". You say that the single stack is a liability. But capacity isn't everything. 7+ rounds of .45 ACP is good. The .45ACP has a well known reputation for one shot stops. The 9mm of the Beretta 92 or Glock 17 does not have that reputation. As for the .45ACP, it is not meant to penetrate body armor, neither is the standard 9mm, but it is accurate over long distances. There are very few pistol rounds that are meant to penetrate body armor of vehicle armor, which is what I think that you are getting at. If you draw a pistol in a combat zone, you are already in deep trouble or in a position where a high capacity is not needed, i.e. MP's. Anyway, a pistol is not meant to be accurate at long distances so the point is moot. As for the "Soldier Proof" weapons, that is just a cheap way out of training soldiers correctly, as they did with the A2 model of the M16. A milspec 1911 is just as reliable as newer designs. One such argument is that the 1911 was only tested for 6000 rounds with no failure before cleaning while Glock for example is tested at 30,000 rounds. What soldier won't clean his sidearm after 6000 rounds? What battle involves firing 6000 rounds out of a pistol? If you can't see why the 1911 design is praised and still being used then I can't help any further. The 1911 design has many good points that apparently many people still find better than other designs, and many still find the 1911 a proven and effective design.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 22:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

:Apparently I wasn't clear when I rebutted you last time. The single stack is confortable for people with small hands yes. However, people with larger hands, and even some small handed people, have no problem with thicker grips and so the capacity limiting single stack serves no purpose. The grip angle is a completely subjective feature and so it is imposible to argue that one style is better than another. What matters more is simply what one is used to. You are right that 7-9 rounds of ammunition and 6000 rounds before cleaning is more than adequate for most applications, however my point wasn't that the 1911 is bad (it is a good weapon) but simply that there are better guns out their. 7 or 8 rounds may be enough for most encounters, but having 12-17 rounds and being able to fire 30,000+ rounds before cleaning is an advantage, whether or not one will utalize those features often. Also, when I referenced penetration I had things like doors, walls, and car bodies in mind, not armor. The .38 Super cartridge was specifically developed because the .45 could not penetrate car bodies effectively. Your previous post all focuses on arguing that the 1911 is an ''adequate'' combat pistol which I completely agree with. My whole point is that the features you mentioned ''do not make it the best pistol around.'' When I first began this conversation I stated that the 1911 is not a bad gun, simply that with all the pistol designs that have emerged in the past century it is no longer the greatest pistol in the world, yet nearly everyone in the gun community (yourself clearly included) still claim it is for no other reason than people like its grip (which is subjective), its caliber (which is used in many much modern modern firearms), and its history (which can easily make it a favorite gun but can not be used as justification for it being the best).

You were arguing the design flaws but it is the design that is one of the big reasons it has such a following. Since you are arguing one view against the other. Why a lot of people think that it is the best. The design is one reason, history is another, the round it fires is yet another reason. I actually don't think it is the best I was merely stating the reasons that it is popular and why people say it is the best. I like the Beretta 92fs for its grip and certain design attributes and the Glock 21sf for different reasons. Would I object to using the 1911 in combat. No. Would I use the Beretta 92fs in combat with FMJ ammo? Not if I didn't have to. With HP ammo, I wouldn't hesitate to use the Beretta. But even your view of other designs being better is subjective. If a pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc...is reliable and fires a moderately effective round then it is a good design. What makes it the best is subjective as far as it goes. What one pistol may be best at is what makes it worst at something else. There is no way to objectively define the "best" just what is better than something else.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 00:17, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. I don't have any gun in mind that I think is indisputably better than all others. The features I pointed out I did so to demonstrate that in certain aspects the 1911 is inferior to other disigns, not that said other designs are the perfect weapon. Every design is a give and take of different features. Because of this, my main complaint was a pervaisive belief that the 1911 is unquestioningly the greatest gun ever (I have heard that phrase Verbatim in many issues of Guns & Ammo). Is it better in some aspects than double-collumn, double-action 9mm pistols? Yes. Is it better across the board? Absolutly not. I apologize if at any point I have come across as confrontational, it is just that I have heard so many people assert the 1911's complete supremacy so many times that it has really gotten on my nerves and I wanted to know what others thought.

Google "1911"...then google any other gun...now tell me which one has the most varieties...which one has the most after market parts and pieces for the specialist. Which one has the most surplus parts. Its so popular and so famous because if you wanted to you could make one look like no other one or you could make it look like that one in your favorite movie. Not only that but all the diffrent calibers from 45cal to the awesome and unbeatable 10mm. Plus they are sexy as hell. To sum up you can basically have a beautiful, functional, all steel combat pistol in your choice of caliber and its going to feel like a dream in your hands.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:48, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

:The madness of crowds surely knows few bounds--just look at how the various bottled water companies manage to make a killing selling what is essentially tap water, because people will do often do things just because enough other people tell them it's a good idea. Then again, I suppose the "cult following" that some pistol-types have over others is due in part to the following facts:

:*Pistols are rarely if ever primary combat weapons anymore, with the exception of law enforcement.
:*Few people who routinely carry pistols have to regularly use them in gun battles against opponents who are earnestly trying to kill them.

:Therefore there aren't many occasions for most pistol-carriers to test their assumptions in the most revealing field of all--life-or-death situations. So depending on your circumstances you can go a lifetime without ever putting the hype in the harsh light of real return-fire. I'd bet on the M1911-type (the "pure" single-stack .45 ACP M1911s) pistols selling so much mostly because of its hype and history, and that it is, at its heart, a serviceable (though hardly optimal) weapon. Given how many clones there are, however, I really must wonder what would have happened had Colt become the sole copyright holder for this pistol type--would we see more innovation that way, or just countless clones of some other pistol type? Perhaps a more revealing, specific question would be "How does the M1911 platform compare to the Glock platform or CZ-75 platform?" That could work because all three are successful pistol types offered in multiple calibers, including 9x19mm, .45 ACP, and 10mm Auto.

:Bottom line? The "pure" M1911 works, but we can certainly do better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:07, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

::Exactly

Ok, well answer me this then. Why if the 1911 is all hype and legend does MEUSOC still issue 1911s? Why does Delta give out a stipend to have an operator buy his own custom 1911? Why does the FBI HRT use 1911s? and LAPD SWAT? and so many other groups that use pistols? The reasons the wonder 9s came into popularity are lower recoil (marginal), size (marginal) higher capacity (less training in marksmanship), weight (long since gone by the wayside), to match ammo with other NATO countries (Military), and hype/ cool factor (civilian). The 1911 has served admirably (in one capacity or another) with few major changes to the platform for almost 100 years. The Beretta, Glock, CZ-75, etc. have been redesigned and "improved" since they came out just to try and match the 1911s in popularity, reliability, etc.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 17:30, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

== Ballester-Molina ==

The Ballester-Molina should not be included in the 1911 page. It's not a 1911, only the mags and barrel interchange. Internally it's based on the Star Model A, which has significant differences from the 1911 in terms of lockwork. Unless anyone objects I'm going to create a separate page for it. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

User:PunisherDave

2010-08-16T17:37:13Z

PunisherDave: New page: Hey, I'm Dave.. yeah, I assumed that you didn't figure that out by my signature. I'm a gun nut. I like all firearms, except bolt-action rifles. I know what you're gonna say "How can you...

Hey, I'm Dave.. yeah, I assumed that you didn't figure that out by my signature. I'm a gun nut. I like all firearms, except bolt-action rifles. I know what you're gonna say "How can you NOT like bolt-action?!?!?"... the answer is simple... if I'm outside the range of my AR-15... I'm gonna close the distance so that I'm within the range of it. The range that a bolt-action truly shines is a range that I'd rather not be at... I'm a CQB guy.. a Remington 870 and a 1911 are my firearms of choice. Yeah, I like .45 ACP over 9x19mm, or 9x18mm, or 9x17mm, or even 9x39mm. The reason is not "MORE STOPPING POWER!" or "HYDROSTATIC SHOCK!!," its simply the fact that its a bigger bullet which leads to more internal tissue damage... that is all.

God bless,
PunisherDave

P.S. yeah, I'm Christian... SURPRISE!

Talk:Resident Evil: Extinction

2010-08-16T02:09:11Z

PunisherDave: /* Carlos's handguns */

== I'll take the job ==

No one's been bothering with this, so I've decided to take it up.

Hasn't anybody noticed the shotgun in Mikey's van? When the crows fly past his sensors, the alarm sounds, he wakes up and hits his head, then as he gets up you can clearly see a shotgun hanging on the ceiling of the van. At first I thought it was a Benelli semi-automatic but after I looked at it a few times I could see it was pump-action for sure. It has a pistol grip/rifle stock, and an extended magazine. I hope someone finds out what it is. (Gunmaster12)

What Im thinking it might be a Benelli M3 or probably a modified shotgun or something.
Im like, f**king confused and its annoying me... (Demonslayer43)

== Revolvers ==

I've seen a couple revolvers, but haven't gotten any good shots of them.

== L85A1 ==
I can't help but wonder where a cowboy driving around in the Nevada desert would come upon a British army rifle... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:02, 25 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:Maybe, for the sake of the story, he encountered British troops in the US and took it from a dead body, or got it from a guy who happens to have it, or it was HIS and he somehow aquired it. Who knows. I mean where does Alice get the ammo for her guns anyway? How did Carlos lose his Tavor? Just try not to ask the question for the sake of asking [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:01, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::Alice's ammo: Probably the same place everyone else does, from raiding small towns. Carlos' Tavor: The Tavor wasn't Carlos', it was Yuri's and he probably abandoned it in Raccoon City when he ran out of ammo. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:54, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah, Yuri and Nikolai had TARs, Carlos had a Galil. Carlos also had Desert Eagles, so it seems the Israeli weapons industry armed the whole team... [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 15:02, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Its one thing I wondered when I first saw this article, would be fun if we could get these rifles here in the US but Britian is anti gun so they wouldn't want to help us arm ourselves. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:00, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

You really wouldn't want one, I seved with one, and it jammed up on me 3 times in 2 mags - Captain Snikt

Must be the oldies, the new ones worked fine. Only ever had 1 jam. But, I agree you wouldn't want one, stick to your M4 and M16.
But, back to the topic of how an L85 can end up in Yanke land - a company (Prexis?) sells something called the PR85a1 in parts of the USA. It looks like an A1, but isn't. It only works in semi-automatic. Effectivly, it is an L98'''A2''' cadet rifle, but with the externals of an L85A1 (the A2, made by HK in 2009, is capable of semi-automatic, unlike the bolt action A1 cadet rifle). From what I've been told, its almost impossible to mod it to fire on fully auto or bust. It costs quite a bit too, a few grand (£).

Late to this convo, but the question came to my mind too. I mean yeah, the characters are carrying whatever they happened to loot/come across, and I accept that, but still, the odds of coming across an L85 in the US rather than a weapon actually used by some branch of the US military/law enforcement, or even a weapon that's reasonably easy to acquire by civilians in the US has GOT to be slim. Realistically, as far as assault rifles go, an M4, or M16, or a G36, or even an AUG(which is at least used by Customs) would be a lot more likely to be found laying around waiting to be looted than an L85. Then again, "realism" and "Resident Evil movie" should probably never be brought up in the same topic anyways, so I suppose the point is moot. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 14:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

::Rule of cool my friend, rule of cool. That and its so...'exotic'. You barely see them in films set in the UK, or with UK forces (because - how many are there?) so to see one in the US makes it extra special. Then again - perhaps he owns it - as the above guy said, a company in the USA does sell a semi-automatic L85 clone.
:::Ok, I want to know which company is that? Cause I kinda like the L85 rifle, though I like the AUG more. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:39, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

:::Well, the guy said the one sold in the US is "almost impossible to mod it to fire on fully auto" too, so still, the cowboy just happens to be/find one of the what, 100 people in the US who had one of those rifles(the company that makes them is indeed Prexis, it's called the PL-85, and it costs $2900 on their website) AND happens to also able to convert it/find one already converted to full auto? Seems you'd be more likely to find some Modern Warfare kid who was machining his own AKs in his mom's basement than find a PL-85. So yeah, I'd say rule of cool indeed wins out. Oh well, it's always fun to find off the wall firearm choices in movies, regardless of whether or not the weapon realistically would be the one used. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 04:48, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Took out the crossbow ==

The reason why I took out the crossbow is for obvious reasons, it's NOT a firearm in any sense of the word. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
It launches a projectile, though.-protoAuthor
:Lots of articles on this site (''[[The Punisher]]'', the ''Rambo'' series) feature bows and other weapons that are not technically firearms. The rule of thumb seems to be if a mechanically powered projectile weapon appears in a film with lots of actual firearms, said weapon can be either included or omitted at the discretion of the author.

== Unknown Revolver ==
Chase ([[Linden Ashby]]) uses an unknown revolver to kill a zombie on the Eiffel Tower.
: I'm pretty sure that it was a Colt 1873 SAA or something similar.
::It was double action I believe. It is seen for only a split section, so I couldn't ID it myself when I watched it on TV recently. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:::Looked like a schofield style revolver, probably 7.5" barrel. If you watch closely he appears to cock it for each shot. Look carefully when hes on the tower and fighting off the zombie, he reaches for a blued revolver with a wood handle that looks a lot like a russian or beretta laramie schofield revolver. Just my 2cents

[[Image:REE 049.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

==Mossberg 464==
'''[moved from main page]''' --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:07, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

did anyone else notice she was loading it with what looked like 45ACP ammo??
-Could be chambered in the similar 45LC, Winchester 94's come in that caliber too.

==Revolver==

What revolver is this insane survivor using ?

[[Image:REELDA2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An insane survivor holds Alice's LDA, the other one has a revolver.]]

== K-Mart used the Winchester ==

Hey how come the character K-Mart (Spencer Locke) hasn't got a page? In this movie (Resident Evil: Extinction), she uses the Winchester Model 1300 12Gauge but it isn't mentioned. It happened during the Super-Undead Zombie attack, zombies come out of the container, she runs away, gets into the truck with L.J., thena zombie comes and tries to get in. She gets the shotgun, yells at L.J. "Get down!", pumps the weapon, thenshoots the zombie in the head. She deserves the recognition for it. After all, the character is supposed to be 14 years old.
==Carlos's handguns==

Didnt Carlos use Dual Desert Eagles in Apocolypes? But i guess being 5 years since the movies have gone by hes gotten new ones... wierd...
(Demonslayer43)

I think he should have kept the IMI Desert Eagles .50AEs. They beat HK USP 9mms any day....:( --[[User:Gunmaster12|Gunmaster12]] 13:49, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Only when your out of 9mm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:FiveTwoSeven is right on the money. Desert Eagles might beat 9mm if you're hunting rhinos or grizzly bears or something, but otherwise, they're a bulky, heavy, oversized gun firing unnecessarily big bullets. Hate to tell you man, but the real world doesn't work like Call of Duty, there's NO real world military or police force that carries the DE, while there are tons carrying 9mm pistols. And there's a reason for that. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 02:48, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

The Desert Eagle may be over-powered, but the 9mm is definatly under-powered. You could hit an enemy 4-5 times and not take them out, but with the Desert Eagle you only need 1 shot. And please don't tell me your a "9mm all the way", because there are more calibres that are better than the 9mm than there are worse, by far. (.41AE, 10mm Auto, 9x21mmIMI, and of course .45 ACP, plus all the magnums .357 and .44 are better by my books.)And no, i don't think the world works like COD4, because i have found more mistakes with the firearms than you could ever imagine. Ditto for MW2. I wish i had had a say in the making of the games, i would have changed a lot. sorry if i caused offence.--[[User:Gunmaster12|Gunmaster12]] 04:09, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I take it that you come from video games and know little about real guns. 9mm is perfectly fine for anything related to personal defence. One very well known writer that also lives in my home state New Hampshire, Massod Ayoob, is a retired police officer. He is VERY experianced with guns and in fact "gunfighting" aswell. He has actually been in real gun fights. He writes alot about gun fights where someone had to draw their weapon. He is by definition a true expert on guns. He packs a 9mm daily. Would he if it took several rounds to do what one round of .45 could do? No he wouldn't. There has been one account of someone that was shot 4 times with a .45 and walked out of the hospital a few hours later and many other accounts where someone was shot once with a 9mm and was dead before he hit the ground. One gun high as a kite on meth was shot 6 times with a .41 magnum and kept fighting and took getting run over the the LEO's partner with the cruiser and he was still trying to fight even with the vehicle over him .41 AE is a near obsolete round, 9x21 is extremely uncommon, and 10mm is uncommon to a point. The desert eagle is NOT a fighting handgun, way to big and unwieldy. Also putting trust into a large round to stop someone kinda says that you don't trust your self to hit him somewhere vital and you hope that he drops dead. Getting hit once with a .50 AE doesn't garentee a one shot stop. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:29, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Everything the above guy said is dead on the money. And anyway Gunmaster, if the DE is so much better than a 9mm handgun, I'll reiterate-why do NO military or law enforcement agencies in the world carry them, yet many still carry 9mm weapons? Even units who have the freedom to choose their own sidearms do not carry Desert Eagles, why do you think that is? Sure, you can argue that 9mm isn't the best round in the world and that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that a 9mm handgun is STILL better for combat use than a DE, unless your definition of "combat" includes shootouts with elephants or something. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 08:28, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Okay for starters don't get worked up, I'm not trying to start a 9mm/other calibres war.....
And no, I didn't get anything know about guns from video games. I have just always had an interest in firearms for the last 8 years of my life, since age 8 all the while I've simply been gathering information through good old books. I can promise you that you'd be surprised. No shit, you ask me a question about any weapons specifications I can answer it. Without Google.
Now, the 9x19mm Luger Parabellum round has many advantages, such as ammunition capacity, but it is seriously lacking in power, fair and square.
But as a military calibre, things such as capacity may be an issue. Take the Colt M1911 .45 ACP (11.43x23mm) pistol. The .45 round is the optimal military calibre in terms of power, but that particular weapon takes only 7 rounds. Most weapons in that calibre can't take high amounts of ammunition, and at the time of the XM9 handgun trials Beretta and SIG-Sauer took the spotlight, ruining the chances of weapons like the Spanish Star "Megastar" .45ACP, and the HK MK 23 MOD 0 SOCOM .45ACP. Those ones can take 12 rounds of ammunition. And my definition of combat includes circumstances that can never be forseen. Thus you must always be prepared. If I was put on the battlefield with one handgun of my choice it would definatly and without a doubt be a Hecklar & Koch Mark 23 Model 0 .45.Comparativly puny Glock 17s, Berreta M92-SB-Fs, and USP-9s wouldn't come close. But don't get me wrong, 9mms have their time and place. It can sometimes come down to personal preference; mine just doesn't run to the 9mm Parabellum round. One more thing, my views on the 9mm are much different when your talking sub-machine guns. I would never diss the HK MP5, it's variants, the IMI Uzi, it's variants, and definatly not the Steyr AUG Para SMG.
About the Desert Eagle not being in service anywhere, it's obvious the NATO countries would look to their own country's weapons before adopting an Israeli weapon, and after the Glock started getting used by "over 65% of the world's military and police forces" as they claim, Israel decided to as well. Anyway I respect your argument but I hope you can also respect mine --[[User:Gunmaster12|Gunmaster12]] 15:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Isreal wasn't using the Desert Eagle BEFORE they adopted the Glock. People don't carry it because it's NOT A COMBAT HANDGUN. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 21:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Seeing how you like the MK23 it definatly shows where you come from. If you were to hang around a non HK-biased gun board like TheHighRoad.org, you would know that its a huge over priced pistol. The Desert Eagle is FAR FROM A COMBAT PISTOL PERIOD. Not even the country that made it issues it. <-------- Read that. Judging by your weapon choices I see that you come from Rainbow 6 Vegas, not real life. Although FMJ 9mm isn't the best I know that but when you can have hollow points its perfectly fine. If I were to fight in a official Military force I would carry either a SIG Sauer P220, FNP 45 or I would still pack my 9mm Hi Power. The MK23 is one of the SOCOM issue weapons yet it is rarely carried, why you may ask? Because its do big and unwieldy. The Navy SEALs have choosen the 9mm P226 over a .40 or a .45 because its shot placement. By the time you lug your MK23 or Desert Eagle out of the holster I would have already draw and double tapped you with my Hi Power.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Okay, let's get something straight. I DO NOT GET MY WEAPON KNOWLAGE OR PREFERENCES FROM VIDEO GAMES. I've never played rainbow 6. i will say this though, good on you for your choice of the SIG-Sauer, best quality gun brand i think. I'm not HK-biased, i just know that in a firefight between a 12 round .45 MK 23 and say as you said a 13 round 9mm Browning, the Mk 23 owner would have the edge. And about the SIG having better shot placement...you can get the P220 in .45, .357SIG, and .40 S&W...all of these would be better than the 9mm version except for capacity. And just one more thing.....have you ever fired a full size assault rifle in real life, not COD4? Just curious--[[User:Gunmaster12|Gunmaster12]] 18:11, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:You know the people the Mk 23 was designed for don't use it, right? If it was such an awesome gun, why do even THEY not carry it? [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 21:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Full size assault rifle? I didn't know there were small and mediun sizes. I haven't fired a full auto assault rifle yet but I've fired plenty of AR-15s and AK 47s a M1A, I even got a AR 15 of my own. The only full auto I've fired was a M60 when I was young. The SIG P220 only comes in .45 now, never was in .357 SIG or .40 S&W. Only 9mm, 7.62 parabellum, .38 super, and .45 ACP. How does a MK23 owner have the edge? The thing is too big and unwieldy, can't conceal carry it at all and would be slow to draw from a holster. Only has a larger round but only counts if you can actually shoot faster than your opponent. Another story I have is one cop had to draw and shoot someone drawing his gun, the cop fired and hit him with his .45 faster than the criminals 9mm yet the criminal still was able to complete the draw and shot and killed the cop then ran off and died later. Let me say again that the people this pistol is aimed at and issued by choice don't even like the MK23, the people that HAVE to use their weapons on a regular basis don't like it and they have experiance. Why do you want to carry it when you have no experiance? You obviously do get your preferances from video games because how else would you get your preferance of te MK23? Either that or you watch too many movies. What have you shot exactly and what do you own?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I have to back the little guy here, this isnt even about resident evil any more its just the pair of you dick measuring. I have no problem with 9mm but i love the Mk23, granted im a bigger guy and dont feel its 'too much gun' for me. I have no problems pulling and firing it at decent speed and accuracy, but remember its not about draw speed this isnt the wild west. Pistols are sidearms now, you wanna draw fast and double tap then take a colt SAA. If the kid prefers the Mk23 then dont just say its down to video games, the only game i know of where the MK23 is available is metal gear solid, and thats wank anyway. Personal preference is just that. Its down to the individual. Tho to remain un biased the desert eagle is in no way a combat pistol. --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:31, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:The Mk 23 has been available in every Rainbow Six game since RS3(and maybe earlier, I forget), and a "high tech" version(where the laser pointer is also capable of shutting down lights and electronics at a distance) of the Mk 23 is Sam Fisher's sidearm in the Splinter Cell games. It's also been used in the SOCOM game series, which I suppose is an appropriate place for it. These are all pretty popular, big name shooter games. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 13:15, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Double tapping with a SAA, thats a new one. I'm 6'4 but theres a point when a gun is too big. Where else would someone get a preferance for a gun when he hasn't most likely held or fired one? Definatly not through reading up on a gun board about it where those experianced with fire arms reside. I have no problem with shooting a .45 but I prefer my 9mm because of how slim it is and the cost of ammo is much less. Theres a difference in preference and picking something with research, and without it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:25, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Yet again bub, personal preference, too big for you might be a good fit for someone else --[[Special:Contributions/86.166.15.114|86.166.15.114]] 02:12, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'll agree about preference, but remember it STARTED with him saying Carlos shoulda kept the Desert Eagles over a 9mm, with both FiveTwoSeven and myself disagreeing with him. It seems to me his bringing up other calibers(we didn't initiate that discussion) was him (successfully) trying to direct the conversation away from the original argument, that being the fact that the DE is not a combat handgun(which you agreed with as well), and would not and is not carried by any combat professional(which Carlos is supposed to be). [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 13:15, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
If he owns a MK23 than he can do as he wants and I don't care. If hes just read about it, watched it in movies, or used it in a video game than his decision is stupid. I have used many different kinds of guns and have decided on a 9mm Hi Power. My decision was through experiance, not armchair-commandoing.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:44, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Hey, Im british, ill never knock the hi power - Captain Snikt

I agree, the Desert Eagle is NOT a combat handgun, it's large, heavy, loud, very expensive, and not very reliable, but it has two pros: stopping-power and accuracy. The .50AE, 44 Magnum, and 357 Magnum almost guarantees a one-shot kill. In media, the only thing I've seen the Desert Eagle's ballistic damage realistically portrayed in so far is L4D2. Ballistic damage wise, it is the most realistic weapon in the game. I fully believe that the Desert Eagle in real life is capable of blowing off limbs and bursting heads like melons (in fact, even the 7.62X39mm round is known in real life to cause heads to explode!). Not that I'm praising it, I sill think it's not a good combat pistol, although it could be a very effective weapon in the right hands.

The MK23 SOCOM on the other hand, IS a combat handgun. Yes, the Navy Seals dislike it because it's large and heavy but I think it makes up for this with it's durability, reliability, accuracy, controllably, and it's 12 round magazine. I think that the pros far outweigh the "cons", how many other ,45 ACP handguns (besides maybe the SIG P220) can get 2 inch groupings at 50 meters right out of the box. Its long 5.9 inch, O-ring equipped barrel combined with it's recoil-reduction buffer (which keeps the muzzle-flip very minimal) is the reason why it's so accurate. I think the Special Forces need to suck it up, because size and weight shouldn't be an issue(unless excessive like the Desert Eagle) when it comes to a highly effective combat pistol. True, I've never held a SOCOM pistol but I doubt it's not nearly as "big a deal" as the Desert Eagle, which fits my hand just fine, and I'm just a skinny white guy that's 6 feet tall and weighs less than 180 lbs!

I'm 6'4 and 150lbs. While the MK23 may be a combat handgun, doesn't mean that its the best or good. Its a sidearm, not a main arm so why would you really want 2" groupings at 50 yards, that range you should be using your main arm. The closet I've come to a MK23 was a airsoft gun and its huge, there is no need for a SIDEARM to be that big. If the experts don't like it, than why do you?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:08, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Because it's a great sidearm. Size and weight IS not a factor to me when it comes to superb practicality. As I mentioned before, it is very durable, reliable, accurate, and controllable (because of its recoil-reduction buffer which keeps the muzzle-flip down which means it stays on target better). I also forgot to mention that it's also corrosion-resistant and can take P+ armor-piercing rounds. Whats wrong with a pistol that can hit a Tango through the eye at 50 meters with a suppressor. Isn't it better for
a weapon to exceed expectations than to just conform to them? I've known this stuff about the MK23 since I was 12, and I'm 20 now. Yes, it may not be the best handgun
EVER MADE and you may not like it, but you still can't deny that it's a great handgun.

If FiveTwoSeven would think back to the beginning of the conversation you will see that I never actually SAID that the IMI Desert Eagle was a combat handgun. You keep saying "it's not a combat handgun, it's not a combat handgun" but honestly I don't know why the hell you believe that's what I think.O_o Beats me where you got that from. And about the MK23's weight, no-one else seems to be complaining. You obviously think that the 9mm is best, well, i'm not going to destroy your delusions,
it's your loss. In reference to a previous comment, by "full-size assault rifle" i mean not a "Short Assaut Rifle", or SAR. Plenty of them exist. For example the Micro Galil, Colt Commando, and AK 74U. And yes, i have shot a full=size assault rifle. I'm in the Army Cadets and havefired the Steyr F88 AUG 5.56x45mm, both with blanks and live ammunition. And thank you to all the people on my side of the argument, good to see some people have the right idea.--[[User:Gunmaster12|Gunmaster12]] 08:57, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Is that all the experiance you have with actually shooting guns? Thats not enough to claim something is better. Why do you think the MK 23 is so good when the professionals hate it? Even though I dislike H&K, I wouldn't care if you liked the USP 45. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:31, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I have got to agree with Gunmaster 12. I own both a Browning 9mm and a MK23 and the MK23 is better by far. Sure it's heavier but I get way more accuracy with it than the Browning. Not to say that the Browning is not a good weapon.

Sign your posts. I disregard posts by anoms. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:23, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Just pointing out: That wasn't GM's original argument. He stated that the Desert Eagle was better than the USP. This eventually developed into whether the MK.23 or Browning Hi-Power were better.

Wasn't specific to the Hi Power, it was more of 9mm vs. 45acp at that point. How is firing a short assault rifle different or give you less experiance than a full size? It turned into a argument like that because I was defending the 9mm, its delusional to think that its weak.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

The 9mm is not weak in itself, just compared to the .45 Auto. Thats the reason i said that the MK23 is better than the Browning because it has greater power to capacity RATIO. Add the superb accuracy and i think that it it better. Firing a Short Assault Rifle doesn't give you more experience, nor was that my point. I didn't say that i had more experience than FiveTwoSeven because of that difference. I guess i just made that classification because the original conversation was about handguns.--[[User:Gunmaster12|Gunmaster12]] 14:39, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

To FiveTwoSeven:thats fair enough i will sign this post, i just don't have an account--[[Special:Contributions/120.152.97.51|120.152.97.51]] 14:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

http://intrencik.com/357sig_files/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg While .45acp is better to shoot someone with, it doesn't seem that much better. The biggest thing that gets me about this caliber war is the fact that alot of people believe that .45acp is the end all, instant-death-ray-gun. One thing that bothers me is your choice of gun. There are many other .45s that are better and hold more. The USP 45 holds the same but is more manageable with its smaller size. The Glock 21 holds 13 rounds of .45, the Springfield XD holds 13, and my favorite out of the high cap .45s, the FNH FNP 45. Holds 14 rounds of .45acp. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:20, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

The USP45 Tactical is less accurate and probably only has a range of 25 meters as opposed to the SOCOM's 50 meters, and the other pistols you mentioned are not
worthy for military combat conditions. By the Skinny White Guy ;)

Better? For accuracy? Not even close. Those pistols that hold more, we're talking 1-2 rounds difference. It doesn't make them better.You put one in the chamber plusa full mag that's 13rds. And again it's personal preference. I happen to like the look of the MK23 better than others. No, I don't think that the .45ACP is a "end all, instant-death-ray-gun" But if you have two guys, and one gets hit by 9mm, the other gets hit with a .45, both at the same distance, same barrel length, same rifling, hell, same weapon frame, there is MORE chance that the .45 will take him out first shot. --[[User:Gunmaster12|Gunmaster12]] 15:41, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks < Function. There are many people that own SIGs or any other good looking pistol yet carry a Glock. I personally find the MK23 ugly because of its large trigger guard. Plus it depends on who the better shot is more than capacity, gun, or cartridge. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:04, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

My take on the issue: it more personal preference than anything. Sure, the .45 may be slightly more powerful than the 9, but there is not a man alive who wants to be shot with either of them. 99% of it is determined by how well the shot is placed, and the skill of the shooter. A hit to the heart by either of them is effective. But, there is no handgun on Earth you can absolutely gaurantee will kill someone with one shot. I am a fan of a .45, but in skilled hands, either one is lethal. -SasquatchJim

Well said --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:34, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

While I agree with FIVETWOSEVEN for the most part about the 9mm and all. I mean hell, my home defense gun is a Browning BDA380 even though I was ever so close to convincing my dad to get the tu-tone Glock 17 when it was on sale. Anyway, I will have to agree with Gunmaster12 that Carlos should have kept the DEs. Don't forget, these guys aren't fighting people who are shooting back but fighting zombies and everybody knows the best way to kill zombies is the shoot them in the head and with his DEs firing a massive .44 magnum, it should probably give Carlos at better chance and blowing off the head than with a 9mm. Just my 2 cents. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 00:37, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, PotShot. The 9mm will normally be easier to control than the .44 magnum. Therefore, 9mms will allow him to have faster follow-up shots and more accurate fire. While I've never fired a Desert Eagle .44, I've shot enough 9mm to know that it's powerful enough to pierce the skull, yet recoil is soft enough for accurate fire. Also, 9mm is more common, allowing you to have more available in something like that. BTW, I'm a member of the zombie-survival forum the ZSDW. Look me up on there. -SasquatchJim
*Note: I came across as sounding like the .44 was terrible. I didn't mean to sound that way. I like the .44; but it seems like in a situation where headshots are required, a lighter-recoiling rounds is better.
:Now that I think about it, that does make more sense. I've never fired or even held a DE before(almost nobody sells them in my area) so I have no idea how heavy it is. This brings up another question, if LJ still had a DE and ammo, did Carlos simply lose his desert eagles or what as he and LJ could have pooled the ammo since their DEs are the same caliber.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 02:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

.44 ammo is bulky, plain and simple. Meaning its heavier, and you can haul around less of it. The capacity is also a issue, which is ultimatly why I'm not a huge fan of any DE. It's heavy, has a decent kick, the ammo is heavy, and it barely holds any rounds. While a person with a DE might leave a bigger hole, the person with the 9mm will still be shooting when the other person has to reload. And if by some miracle you can hit their brain every shot, the round doesn't matter. You need to hit their brain, not blow their head off. Meaning overall: 8 tries, or 15? Your choice. Don't get me wrong, if you feel safe with the .44 and are used to it, by all means, use it. It's just not the almighty gift from Gun Jeebus.
-Hell_raiser101, fellow member of the ZSDW.

I gotta jump back in here, I hate anything dual weilding desert eagles. I know res e is hardly realism at its pinnacle but that was just a lil too stupid, the USP's are the smarter choice and this is from a guy who does love the mk23, chunky trigger guard n all. But since we still ae on zombies and 45 auto if you wanna see this done right watch dawn of the dead (the remake). Most of you probably have to be fair, but for the final showdown most of the survivors pack glock 21's (even tho they only have the post ban 10 round mags). Probably the smartest choice for the occasion, nice chuncky 45 round, half decent mag cap, light durable and easy to use, glocks might not win any beauty pagents but damn they make for a good peice - Captain Snikt

I like how that guy's name is "Gunmaster," but he doesnt know that much about guns, or from what I've heard, anything. The Desert Eagle is just as bad as any one of these smart guys will say. I know from personal experience that the 9x19mm is a fine round, I personally don't trust it for my home defense, for that I have the pistol that has never failed me, my 1911. Like many people have said, its not so much caliber, as shot placement. This is very true. Look at the AR-15 compared to an AK47, AR has a smaller round (by far)but is much more accurate. That right there is the key. Your firearm must be accurate, but so must you be. Just because you have a .50 Caliber Action Express, doesn't mean you're ready to start WWIII. Of course I still prefer the .45 ACP, but if you're good, a 9x19mm will do the trick... thats my 2 cents anyway --[[PunisherDave]]

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-08-14T20:09:22Z

PunisherDave: /* Zombies */

This game has a cold war look to it

==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==

It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.
:It's an SMG.
:: '''LoL.'''
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The "S" means its a Carbine. The "U" means it has a folding stock. --ZEER
:::: No :) "S" ( Sklopnyj - somehing like "foldable") means folding stock and "U" ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)

An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.

At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.

==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY

I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as "a machine gun" and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as "submachine guns". [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
::nerd rage
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.

::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is "SOG got it before everyone else". That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==zombie mode==

will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not copying spec ops.....

Maybe it's aliens.

Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==

Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg

Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg

==add m16 to page==

It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.

Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

m16 has been removed, only "ar-15 carbine" is there.

==='''M16 is in.'''===

I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.

Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.

==Weapons that would make sense==
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith & Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith & Wesson 39

AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM

-Add any other weapons that would make sense
:M3A1 "Grease Gun"/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 "Death Machine"(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry's Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's "Little Friend"
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ?

It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help.

::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.

''''''Some good proofs''' :'''

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )

http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image

http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )

http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' )

''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''

==Should be==
There should be M72 LAWs, M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!

Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and "smell of napalm in the morning"

I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]

==E3==

Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 .

== Not an AK-47 ==
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.

Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

::You appear to have missed the point of this website...

::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.

AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== Degtyarov ==
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.

==ummmm==
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===
== AR-10 ==

Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4

[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]

:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.

Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.

:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.

I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.

== Un-identified guns ==

[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

== RPK ==

From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.

The "RPK" and the "Valmet" are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*

No. Look on that "RPK" an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on "Valmet" and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the "Valmet" in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.

Moved "Unknown LMG" stuff to the RPK-74 section. Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

==M1911==

In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.

It says "Sally" on the slide.

The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG

== good decision ==

As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)

* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.

Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say "hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?" And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying "3RD PERSON" in "Play" screen ?

I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!! THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy. [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say "Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em", instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== MP5k ==

You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.

You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside "the looks"?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
*"MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war"...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat

Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?

Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.

Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining

"I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?" Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.

You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM. SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to. Could they have carried a prototype MP5K? Sure! Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time. Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==

It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver. Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced. The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type. The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177. Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''

:::No, not at all. My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver. Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their "balanced" and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.

:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]

Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: "The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail." Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.

The model 656 looked like this:

[[Image:model 656.jpg]]

It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.

I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed.
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)

Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.

== Complaints ==
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say "They should have done better research!" or "They don't know anything about history!", but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.

*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam. As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella. Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

too.

:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the "story". If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Well, it doesnt have to be "interactive history lesson" but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''

As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010
(UTC)

Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's "Little Friend".

The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG & Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown ==
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010

Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it

moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010

== Carcano M91/38? ==

The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen "Lee Harvey Oswald" on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

== M16 and XM177 ==

[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]

Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.

== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==

Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns

What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web

* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

== Valment m78 ==
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==

[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.

Damn straight.

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those "cool" and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]

== Prototypes ==

Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, <quote>which no one outside the team will ever get to see</quote>. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into "anything goes" territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

==M14==

What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]

Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

1. They'll Probably put it in.
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.

:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).

Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.

== AUG sans grip ==

What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.

::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.

The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the "finger guard."

I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.

......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2.
=== Bullpup guns ===

If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.

: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units

== OXM article ==

Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:

- It was inspired by the book "SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos," by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275440842&sr=8-1]

- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds.

- At least from their description, the "WMD" level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2.

The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender

- The M202 FLASH is confirmed.

- The M1911s with "Sally" etched on them also have tally marks on them.

- They mention a co-op feature that "appears to be a successor" to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer.

- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps.

- Regarding anachronistic guns, "'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object."

- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) "The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement." Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch.

--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.

You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.
:::Cool

RC planes instead of predator missiles?

== Document from viral site ==

Over at the CoD wiki I found this "document" from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as "very early prototype weapon; not in production". It also mentions the [[G11]]

and also the delicious China Lake Launcher
-Double Agent M

:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power

== M202 FLASH ==
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?
::The reference specifically said "M202." We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled "M202" in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.

:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information. --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]
Here is what it shoots

[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]

Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

==Not being able to go past vietnam?==

What is this crap I hear about treyarch LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.

[[User:k9870]]

:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)
::"-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two "creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio." '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval."'''
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::And to stay on topic, how would they define "distant future?" Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==

Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.

[[Image:DOC10.jpg]] 
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]

== Still a little chance ==

Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== M16 on magazine cover ==
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is it bothering you that much?
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.

The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....

vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true
:That could be multiplayer screens

== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==

All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators! (video game maker logic))
[[User:k9870]]

At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''nerd'''

At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.

I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the "it's supposed to be a prototype" line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of "SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars" by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]]) fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]

I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Snake ==
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.

== .357 ==

A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.

Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It is a game.

== Grenade Launcher ==

Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it "Grenade launcher." It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260

Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.

It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

== SPAS-12 ==

Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...

Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.

Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...

At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== "AR" Sling ==
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.

[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.

Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.

:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.

== M16 ==
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks.

[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]

I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Bad Feeling ==

After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?

Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch. Are they perfect? No..but now a days they're better than IW.

I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.

-k9870

With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.

Everyone here talking shit about IW? You're a bunch of idiots. IW makes far better games. I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far. This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to "It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game."[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is

IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.

:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact. MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features. Was multiplayer a bit buggy? Yeah, for around a month. Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW? That game was garbage. It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned. The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a "real" CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Now let's talk about Treyarch. Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series? Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops. I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series. CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'. Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job. What does that record suggest their next game will be like?

: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2. They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer. The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Goofs and screw-ups ==
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it.

and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.
::For your information I am actually 12.

Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a "TOP SECRET" excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.

:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.
-One Man Army
-Danger Close M203s
-Commando
-The Spawn system
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)
-Overpriced map packs
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo
-boosters galore
-10 Prestige hack lobbies
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage

So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's "Black ops" doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians & Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole "prototype" B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of "what players want", more a case of Treyarch saying "we think we know what players want". This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::"At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game." My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like "How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!" Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup

One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?

:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as "fuck ups" in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\

::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical "truth" that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T

:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I never really got that mindset "It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it". Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I dont see MW2 as "noob friendly", just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing.

-k9870

:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing "Helicopter Inbound", then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.

-k9870

The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off

[[user:k9870]]

agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. "noob tubers" really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\

-k9870

:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.

I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.

You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Linked to World at War ==

It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki

:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!" [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::"now he'll continuously yell "Fire the Javelin!"" What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.

:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling "FIRE THE LAW" in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Any links to zombies?

== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==

Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct. 

Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2, 
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]

:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the "SOG got it first" excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==

This is what I'm talkin about: 

[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]] 

As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture: 

[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]] 

My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:
*The H&K SMGI & II
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103:smg-i-a-ii&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:mp5-pip&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== G11 ==

Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== XM214 Microgun ==

Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance? I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== A more plausable fictional AR-15 ==

I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.

agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== New weapons! ==

Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. 
From left to right, starting at the top: 
-M16A2 (?) 
-MAC-10 w/ supressor 
-AUG 
-Mini-Uzi 
-L85 
-Scorpion SA Vz 61 
-AKs-74u 
-Another Skorpion 
-SPAS-12 
-MP5 (?) 

Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?
Sorry it's a bit blurry.

It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

: That pic is here too :) Check out "extras" section in article :D

:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored "Iranian Hostage Situation" level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,

:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

"Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010."
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops

I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I hope its just "iranian embassy raid inspired", not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.

:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube "HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1" It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...

I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like "Elephant&Rhino look alike" or "M16 looks like AK 47".

I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.

:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up

some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said "a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!" even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]

Or not.

Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?

It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because "It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life". I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)

So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them. Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]

While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.

==Anyone Take Notice?==

During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said "Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]

Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:

[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]

: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== New Trailer ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54

Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying. Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question. They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse. Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::Unless they've gone down the "we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun" route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, "What the hell..." But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor

The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.

MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified "near future" kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, "Modern Warfare." Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.

Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of "Modern Warfare back in time" deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.

I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.

=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===

Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]

If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== The COD wiki ==

I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the "gun nerds" on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at "Black Ops" history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm over at Cod wiki right now.

==Those are definitely explosive tips==

The attachment on this picture:
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png

==A nice detail==
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.

Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Ballistic knife==
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?

Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.

No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Snub Nose ==

I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python
Confirm?

I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Anachronisms ==

Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as "Aparently they did no research" and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==

The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== Dragunov? ==

In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?

watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the action diver had one, too

== R/C car ==

For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?

Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Retarded gimmick is retarded.

== Some prototypes photos ==

So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ?

For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]

Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.

And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ?
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.

Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg]
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

==RPG-7==
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png

Can someone put that pic on the page in "RPG-7" section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops

2010-08-14T20:07:24Z

PunisherDave: /* zoom in? */

Inception

2010-07-25T17:33:43Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta Px4 Storm */

''Inception'' is a 2010 science fiction thriller from director [[Christopher Nolan]] (''[[The Dark Knight]]'') and starring [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] as a man specializing in stealing secrets locked away in people's dreams. '''All screencaps come from the official clips and trailers.'''

{{Film Title|Inception}}

[[Image:InceptionCoverArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Inception '''(2010)''''']]

__TOC__ 

'''WARNING! POSSIBLE SPOILERS'''

=Pistols=

== Beretta Px4 Storm ==

A [[Beretta Px4 Storm]] with a threaded barrel is carried by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) throughout the film.

[[Image:Px4_Storm.jpg‎‎|thumb|350px|none|Beretta Px4 Storm 9x19mm ]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb draws his Beretta Storm and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) with his Glock in a production still.]]
[[Image:INCPT-92FS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note extended barrel and rail.]]
[[Image:Inception.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb loads his Beretta...]]
[[Image:Inception1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and chambers it.]]
[[Image:INCPT-PX4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) aiming his Px4 w/ suppressor in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:Inception3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb fires his suppressed Beretta Px4 at Saito's dream mercenaries.]]
[[Image:Inception-Px4Suprressor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb threads a suppressor onto his Beretta.]]

== SIG-Sauer P232 ==

A [[SIG-Sauer P230|SIG-Sauer P232]] is used by Mal ([[Marion Cotillard]]) to injure Arthur when Cobb infiltrates Saito's secrets in the beginning.

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Inception7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mal holds her SIG at Cobb in a publicity still.]]

== Walther PPK ==

Saito ([[Ken Watanabe]]) is seen with a [[Walther PPK]] in the second part of the opening scene.

[[Image:PPKS blued.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Walther PPK/S blued - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:INCPT-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saito aims a Walther PPK at Cobb's original 'architect.'.]]

== Beretta 92FS ==

At least one of the men chasing Cobb in Mombasa had a [[Beretta 92FS]]. Also possibly seen in Arthur's dream (hotel). Mal is seen with a two-tone version in the third level to shoot Fischer.

[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:Inception-Beretta92FS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Beretta 92FS (circled in red) on the ground as Arthur fights a dream mercenary.]]
[[Image:Inception-Beretta92FS2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur holds the thug's Beretta 92FS (circled in red) before dropping the thug.]]

== Beretta 92SB ==

A [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92SB|Beretta 92SB]] is picked up by Robert Fischer Jr. ([[Cillian Murphy]]) in the second level (hotel).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

== Glock 17 ==

A [[Glock 17]] is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in the first and second dream levels. An attacker chasing Cobb's team on a highway bridge is also seen firing a Glock.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9x19mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]
[[Image:Incept.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Arthur on the left appears to have a Glock pistol.]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in a publicity still.]]
[[Image:Inception2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his Glock 17. Judging by barrel size, this is a Non-gun or flashpaper gun]]

== H&K Pistol ==

Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) draws what appears to be either a [[Heckler & Koch USP|H&K USP Compact]] or a [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] judging by the trigger guard and ribs on the slide in the first dream level (city streets).

[[Image:USPCompact9.jpg|none|300px|right|H&K USP Compact 9x19mm]]
[[Image:P2000-2.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch P2000 .40S&W]]
[[Image:INCPT-Glock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) fires his pistol.]]

== Browning BDM ==

What looks like a [[Browning BDM]] is used by Saito on the first level (city streets).

[[Image:Bdm 1.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Browning BDM 9x19mm]]

== Vektor CP1==

A Black [[Vektor CP1]] is used by Saito on the third level (snow).

[[Image:VektorCP1Pistol.jpg‎ |thumb|none|300px|Vektor CP1 - other side - 9x19mm]]

== SIG-Sauer P226 ==

A [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series|SIG-Sauer P226]] is used by Fischer in the third level (snowy mountain).

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|300px| SIG-Sauer P226 - 9mm]]

=Shotguns=

== Sawed-Off Double Barreled Shotgun ==

One of the men aboard a motorcycle chasing Cobb's team carries a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun#Short barreled Side by Side Shotgun (Sawed Off)|Sawed-Off Double Barrel Shotgun]].

[[Image:Remington SBS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Spartan Sawed Off shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:INCPT-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The man draws out his sawed off shotgun.]]
[[Image:Incept1.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The man with the sawed-off shotgun.]]

=Submachine Guns=

== Heckler & Koch MP5 ==

[[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5A3s]] in various configurations are used by the antagonists, particularly in the winter scene.

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:HKmp5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and safe-semi-two round burst trigger group]]

=Rifles=

== FN FAL ==

A guard in the introduction carries a [[FN FAL]] rifle with wooden handguards, which could possibly mean it is a L1-style rifle.

[[Image:C1A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Canadian version of the L1A1, Inch Pattern with Wood Stocks. Some Canadian SLR handguards have no vent holes.]]

== M4A1 Carbine ==

Various gunmen in the dreams are armed with [[M4A1]] carbines.

[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M4A1 with 6 position collapsible stock - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:M4A1Carbine-Inception.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What appears to be an M4A1 Carbine (circled in red) is seen sitting on the ground when the protagonists are attacked by dream mercenaries.]]
[[Image:M4A1Carbine-Inception2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A dream mercenary in the 3rd level with an M4A1 Carbine (circled in red).]]

== FN SCAR-L ==

The [[FN SCAR-L]] with an ACOG scope is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) to engage some of Fischer's dream snipers before he is interrupted by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]).

[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|400px|none|FN SCAR-L, 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Inception5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur firing his SCAR-L.]]
[[Image:Inception-SCAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his FN SCAR-L at snipers.]]

== SIG SG 552 ==

A winter camouflaged [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] is used by Eames during the snowy mission.

[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56x45mm]]

== Norinco QBZ-97 ==

In the third level (snowy mountain), a guard is briefly seen with a [[Norinco QB rifle series#Norinco QBZ-97|Norinco QBZ-97]] rifle.

[[Image:QBZ-97-with-Stanag-mag.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Norinco QBZ-97 with 4x scope 5.56x45mm ]]

== Blaser R93 LRS2 ==

A [[Blaser R93 Sniper Rifle|Blaser R93 LRS2]] is used by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) in the winter sequence.

[[Image:Blaser93SniperRifleA.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Blaser R93 LRS2''' Precision Sniper Rifle - .338 Lapua Magnum. The rifle is usually outfitted with either a Parker Hale or Harris Bipod.]]
[[Image:Inception4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb scouts the base in the third level.]]
[[Image:Inception8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb with the rifle in a publicity still.]]

== Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 ==
One of Fischer's dream snipers is seen attacking Cobb's group with a [[G3#Heckler & Koch G3SG/1|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1]].

[[Image:H&KSG1.jpg‎ |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Inception-G3sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper runs to cover with a Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 in his hands.]]

==Unknown Sniper Rifle==

An unknown sniper rifle is used by one of the snipers attacking Cobb's group.

[[Image:Inception-sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper aims his sniper rifle.]]

=Machine Guns=

==M240 Machine Gun==

A guard aboard a Humvee fires a mounted [[FN MAG#M240 Machine Gun|M240B]] during the winter scene.

[[Image:M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240B 7.62x51mm NATO with newer style lower handguard (designed to attach RIS rails via hex nut)]]

=Other=

==M26 Hand Grenade==

Saito uses a [[M26 hand grenade]] to ward off attackers during the winter scene.

[[Image:200px-M-67handgrenade.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M26 HE Frag hand grenade]]

==Milkor MGL==

The [[Milkor MGL]] is used by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) to take out a sniper hiding behind power lines.

[[Image:MGL32.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Milkor MGL.]]
[[Image:Inception6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"You mustn't be afraid to dream bigger, darling." Eames fires his Milkor MGL.]]

== Heckler & Koch P2A1 ==

A [[Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol]] is used by Eames to draw the guards away from the fortress in the third level (snow).

[[Image:H&K P2A1.JPG|400px|thumb|none|Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol 26.5mm]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Christopher Nolan]]
[[Category:Thriller]]

Talk:Inception

2010-07-21T01:32:16Z

PunisherDave: /* Guns that stood out to me */

the Milkor MGL cylinder looks off, I think is holds more grenades

== Getting a snow mission vib ==

For some reason seeing Leonardo dicaprio in that snow camo with rifle, really is remind me of Modern Warfare 2, the snow mission. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:29, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

==movie Clip==
In one clip they were being attack with men with G3 with sniper scopes. also in the dialogue is is implied that the men attacking them are apart of the dream

== Snow mission AR ==
Saw this last night. Noticed Tom Hardy's character during the snow mission scene used what looked like a SIG SG-551 or 552, with winter camo and a solid stock. Not 100%, though, and I can't find a screencap.

Definitely a SIG assault rifle.

Yeah, it looked like a SIG 556 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:29, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Saito's handgun in Level 3 ==

I'm almost certain that Saito uses a Vektor CP1 when he's holding off the projections for Eames.--[[User:Toadvine|Toadvine]] 04:51, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes it was [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== It was nice to finally see the SCAR-L get some screentime. ==

I don't think a real one of these has been used in a movie yet (I qualify that because of the CGI'd ones that appear in [[Alive in Joburg]]. Badass.

:There was a SCAR-L used but not fired by Jack Bauer in an episode of 24. And there was also what we ''think'' is one seen briefly in an episode of Jericho. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

When Cillian Murphy's character is given a gun by Leo DiCaprio's character, he holds it to his head, claiming he'll wake up from the dream if he dies. It looked like a Beretta 92SB based on the round trigger guard. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Yusuf's handgun in Level 1 ==

I think Yusuf was using a Kahr CW9 when defending the van from projections on the bridge.--[[User:Toadvine|Toadvine]] 01:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

==motorcycle gun men==
the driver of motorcycle pulls a hand gun after the passenger with the Sawed-Off shotgun gets knocked off did any one see what he used. I think is was a revolver

==Guns that stood out to me==
I wasn't so surprised to see Beretta 92 in there, but I was a little surprised to see Cobb carrying a Beretta Px4 Storm. Mal was seen using a Sig Sauer P232 I believe, and one of the projections was using a Glock 17. A classic and creative gun line up.

Well the SCAR stood out the most [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:32, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

The snow camo'd Blaser was pretty cool. Chris Nolan had one in the Dark Knight too, so maybe he likes that gun. And I believe the Indian dude used some kind of two tone compact SIG on the bridge.

Though I don't think a Blaser would have been my weapon of choice for the snow. I'd prefer semi auto if I'm a sniper on the go [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:09, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Well the Blazer LOOKS interesting. Its very visually engaging with its interesting stock coupled the barrel makes for an interesting composition. Paint it white and blotchy makes it even more odd.
-Double Agent M

I was really happy to see the Px4 Storm get some screen time [[User:PunisherDave|PunisherDave]] 01:31, 21 July 2010

Talk:Inception

2010-07-21T01:31:55Z

PunisherDave: /* Guns that stood out to me */

Talk:Inception

2010-07-21T01:31:20Z

PunisherDave: /* Guns that stood out to me */

Inception

2010-07-21T01:29:42Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta Px4 Storm */

''Inception'' is a 2010 science fiction thriller from director [[Christopher Nolan]] (''[[The Dark Knight]]'') and starring [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] as a man specializing in stealing secrets locked away in people's dreams. '''All screencaps come from the official clips and trailers.'''

{{Film Title|Inception}}

[[Image:InceptionCoverArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Inception '''(2010)''''']]

__TOC__ 

'''WARNING! POSSIBLE SPOILERS'''

=Pistols=

== Beretta Px4 Storm ==

A [[Beretta Px4 Storm]] with a threaded barrel is carried by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) throughout the film.

[[Image:Px4_Storm.jpg‎‎|thumb|350px|none|Beretta Px4 Storm 9x19mm ]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb draws his Beretta Storm and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) with his Glock in a production still.]]
[[Image:INCPT-92FS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note extended barrel and rail.]]
[[Image:Inception.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb loads his Beretta...]]
[[Image:Inception1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and chambers it.]]
[[Image:INCPT-PX4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) aiming his Px4 w/ suppressor in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:Inception3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb fires his suppressed Beretta Px4.]]
[[Image:Inception-Px4Suprressor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb threads a suppressor onto his Beretta.]]

== SIG-Sauer P232 ==

A [[SIG-Sauer P230|SIG-Sauer P232]] is used by Mal ([[Marion Cotillard]]).

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Inception7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mal holds her SIG in a publicity still.]]

== Walther PPK ==

Saito ([[Ken Watanabe]]) is seen with a [[Walther PPK]] in the second part of the opening scene.

[[Image:PPKS blued.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Walther PPK/S blued - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:INCPT-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saito aims a Walther PPK.]]

== Beretta 92FS ==

At least one of the men chasing Cobb in Mombasa had a [[Beretta 92FS]]. Also possibly seen in Arthur's dream (hotel).

[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm.]]

== Glock 17 ==

A [[Glock 17]] is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in the second dream level (hotel). An attacker chasing Cobb's team on a highway bridge is also seen firing a Glock.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9x19mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]
[[Image:Incept.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The man on the left appears to have a Glock pistol.]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in a publicity still.]]
[[Image:Inception2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his Glock 17. Judging by barrel size, this is a Non-gun or flashpaper gun]]

== H&K Pistol ==

Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) draws what appears to be either a [[Heckler & Koch USP|H&K USP Compact]] or a [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] judging by the trigger guard and ribs on the slide in the first dream level (city streets).

[[Image:INCPT-Glock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) fires his pistol.]]

== Vektor CP1==

A Black [[Vektor CP1]] is used by Saito on the third level (snow).

[[Image:VektorCP1Pistol.jpg‎ |thumb|none|300px|Vektor CP1 - other side - 9x19mm]]

== Browning BDM ==

What looks like a [[Browning BDM]] is used by Saito on the first level (city streets).

[[Image:Bdm 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning BDM 9x19mm]]

== Beretta 92SB ==

A [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92SB|Beretta 92SB]] is picked up by Robert Fischer Jr. ([[Cillian Murphy]]) in the second level (hotel).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

== SIG-Sauer P226 ==

A [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series|SIG-Sauer P226]] is used by Fischer in the third level (snowy mountain).

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|300px| SIG-Sauer P226 - 9mm]]

=Shotguns=

== Sawed-Off Double Barreled Shotgun ==

One of the men aboard a motorcycle chasing Cobb's team carries a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun#Short barreled Side by Side Shotgun (Sawed Off)|Sawed-Off Double Barrel Shotgun]].

[[Image:Remington SBS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Spartan Sawed Off shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:INCPT-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The man draws out his sawed off shotgun.]]
[[Image:Incept1.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The man with the sawed-off shotgun.]]

=Submachine Guns=

== Heckler & Koch MP5 ==

[[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5A3s]] in various configurations are used by the antagonists, particularly in the winter scene.

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:HKmp5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and safe-semi-two round burst trigger group]]

=Rifles=

== FN FAL ==

A guard in the introduction carries a [[FN FAL]] rifle with wooden handguards, which could possibly mean it is a L1-style rifle.

[[Image:C1A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Canadian version of the L1A1, Inch Pattern with Wood Stocks. Some Canadian SLR handguards have no vent holes.]]

== M4A1 Carbine ==

Various gunmen in the dreams are armed with [[M4A1]] carbines.

[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M4A1 with 6 position collapsible stock - 5.56x45mm.]]

== FN SCAR-L ==

The [[FN SCAR-L]] with an ACOG scope is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) to engage some snipers before he is interrupted by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]).

[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|400px|none|FN SCAR-L, 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Inception5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur firing his SCAR-L.]]
[[Image:Inception-SCAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his FN SCAR-L at snipers.]]

== SIG SG 552 ==

A winter camouflaged [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] is used by Eames during the snowy mission.

[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56x45mm]]

== Blaser R93 LRS2 ==

A [[Blaser R93 Sniper Rifle|Blaser R93 LRS2]] is used by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) in the winter sequence.

[[Image:Blaser93SniperRifleA.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Blaser R93 LRS2''' Precision Sniper Rifle - .338 Lapua Magnum. The rifle is usually outfitted with either a Parker Hale or Harris Bipod.]]
[[Image:Inception4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb with the rifle.]]
[[Image:Inception8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb with the rifle in a publicity still.]]

== Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 ==
One of the snipers not associated with the dream is seen attacking Cobb's group with a [[G3#Heckler & Koch G3SG/1|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1]].

[[Image:H&KSG1.jpg‎ |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Inception-G3sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper runs to cover with a Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 in his hands.]]

==Unknown Sniper Rifle==

An unknown sniper rifle is used by one of the snipers attacking Cobb's group.

[[Image:Inception-sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper aims his sniper rifle.]]

=Machine Guns=

==M240 Machine Gun==

A guard aboard a Humvee fires a mounted [[FN MAG#M240 Machine Gun|M240B]] during the winter scene.

[[Image:M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240B 7.62x51mm NATO with newer style lower handguard (designed to attach RIS rails via hex nut)]]

=Other=

==M26 Hand Grenade==

Saito uses a [[M26 hand grenade]] to ward off attackers during the winter scene.

[[Image:200px-M-67handgrenade.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M26 HE Frag hand grenade]]

==Milkor MGL==

The [[Milkor MGL]] is used by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) to take out a sniper hiding behind power lines.

[[Image:MGL32.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Milkor MGL.]]
[[Image:Inception6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"You mustn't be afraid to dream bigger, darling." Eames fires his Milkor MGL.]]

== Heckler & Koch P2A1 ==

A [[Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol]] is used by Eames to draw the guards away from the fortress in the third level (snow).

[[Image:H&K P2A1.JPG|400px|thumb|none|Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol 26.5mm]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Christopher Nolan]]
[[Category:Thriller]]

Inception

2010-07-21T01:29:05Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta Px4 Storm */

''Inception'' is a 2010 science fiction thriller from director [[Christopher Nolan]] (''[[The Dark Knight]]'') and starring [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] as a man specializing in stealing secrets locked away in people's dreams. '''All screencaps come from the official clips and trailers.'''

{{Film Title|Inception}}

[[Image:InceptionCoverArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Inception '''(2010)''''']]

__TOC__ 

'''WARNING! POSSIBLE SPOILERS'''

=Pistols=

== Beretta Px4 Storm ==

A [[Beretta Px4 Storm]] is carried by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) throughout the film.

[[Image:Px4_Storm.jpg‎‎|thumb|350px|none|Beretta Px4 Storm 9x19mm ]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb draws his Beretta Storm and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) with his Glock in a production still.]]
[[Image:INCPT-92FS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note extended barrel and rail.]]
[[Image:Inception.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb loads his Beretta...]]
[[Image:Inception1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and chambers it.]]
[[Image:INCPT-PX4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) aiming his Px4 w/ suppressor in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:Inception3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb fires his suppressed Beretta Px4.]]
[[Image:Inception-Px4Suprressor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb threads a suppressor onto his Beretta.]]

== SIG-Sauer P232 ==

A [[SIG-Sauer P230|SIG-Sauer P232]] is used by Mal ([[Marion Cotillard]]).

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Inception7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mal holds her SIG in a publicity still.]]

== Walther PPK ==

Saito ([[Ken Watanabe]]) is seen with a [[Walther PPK]] in the second part of the opening scene.

[[Image:PPKS blued.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Walther PPK/S blued - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:INCPT-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saito aims a Walther PPK.]]

== Beretta 92FS ==

At least one of the men chasing Cobb in Mombasa had a [[Beretta 92FS]]. Also possibly seen in Arthur's dream (hotel).

[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm.]]

== Glock 17 ==

A [[Glock 17]] is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in the second dream level (hotel). An attacker chasing Cobb's team on a highway bridge is also seen firing a Glock.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9x19mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]
[[Image:Incept.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The man on the left appears to have a Glock pistol.]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in a publicity still.]]
[[Image:Inception2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his Glock 17. Judging by barrel size, this is a Non-gun or flashpaper gun]]

== H&K Pistol ==

Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) draws what appears to be either a [[Heckler & Koch USP|H&K USP Compact]] or a [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] judging by the trigger guard and ribs on the slide in the first dream level (city streets).

[[Image:INCPT-Glock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) fires his pistol.]]

== Vektor CP1==

A Black [[Vektor CP1]] is used by Saito on the third level (snow).

[[Image:VektorCP1Pistol.jpg‎ |thumb|none|300px|Vektor CP1 - other side - 9x19mm]]

== Browning BDM ==

What looks like a [[Browning BDM]] is used by Saito on the first level (city streets).

[[Image:Bdm 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning BDM 9x19mm]]

== Beretta 92SB ==

A [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92SB|Beretta 92SB]] is picked up by Robert Fischer Jr. ([[Cillian Murphy]]) in the second level (hotel).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

== SIG-Sauer P226 ==

A [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series|SIG-Sauer P226]] is used by Fischer in the third level (snowy mountain).

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|300px| SIG-Sauer P226 - 9mm]]

=Shotguns=

== Sawed-Off Double Barreled Shotgun ==

One of the men aboard a motorcycle chasing Cobb's team carries a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun#Short barreled Side by Side Shotgun (Sawed Off)|Sawed-Off Double Barrel Shotgun]].

[[Image:Remington SBS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Spartan Sawed Off shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:INCPT-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The man draws out his sawed off shotgun.]]
[[Image:Incept1.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The man with the sawed-off shotgun.]]

=Submachine Guns=

== Heckler & Koch MP5 ==

[[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5A3s]] in various configurations are used by the antagonists, particularly in the winter scene.

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:HKmp5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and safe-semi-two round burst trigger group]]

=Rifles=

== FN FAL ==

A guard in the introduction carries a [[FN FAL]] rifle with wooden handguards, which could possibly mean it is a L1-style rifle.

[[Image:C1A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Canadian version of the L1A1, Inch Pattern with Wood Stocks. Some Canadian SLR handguards have no vent holes.]]

== M4A1 Carbine ==

Various gunmen in the dreams are armed with [[M4A1]] carbines.

[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M4A1 with 6 position collapsible stock - 5.56x45mm.]]

== FN SCAR-L ==

The [[FN SCAR-L]] with an ACOG scope is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) to engage some snipers before he is interrupted by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]).

[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|400px|none|FN SCAR-L, 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Inception5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur firing his SCAR-L.]]
[[Image:Inception-SCAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his FN SCAR-L at snipers.]]

== SIG SG 552 ==

A winter camouflaged [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] is used by Eames during the snowy mission.

[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56x45mm]]

== Blaser R93 LRS2 ==

A [[Blaser R93 Sniper Rifle|Blaser R93 LRS2]] is used by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) in the winter sequence.

[[Image:Blaser93SniperRifleA.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Blaser R93 LRS2''' Precision Sniper Rifle - .338 Lapua Magnum. The rifle is usually outfitted with either a Parker Hale or Harris Bipod.]]
[[Image:Inception4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb with the rifle.]]
[[Image:Inception8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb with the rifle in a publicity still.]]

== Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 ==
One of the snipers not associated with the dream is seen attacking Cobb's group with a [[G3#Heckler & Koch G3SG/1|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1]].

[[Image:H&KSG1.jpg‎ |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Inception-G3sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper runs to cover with a Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 in his hands.]]

==Unknown Sniper Rifle==

An unknown sniper rifle is used by one of the snipers attacking Cobb's group.

[[Image:Inception-sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper aims his sniper rifle.]]

=Machine Guns=

==M240 Machine Gun==

A guard aboard a Humvee fires a mounted [[FN MAG#M240 Machine Gun|M240B]] during the winter scene.

[[Image:M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240B 7.62x51mm NATO with newer style lower handguard (designed to attach RIS rails via hex nut)]]

=Other=

==M26 Hand Grenade==

Saito uses a [[M26 hand grenade]] to ward off attackers during the winter scene.

[[Image:200px-M-67handgrenade.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M26 HE Frag hand grenade]]

==Milkor MGL==

The [[Milkor MGL]] is used by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) to take out a sniper hiding behind power lines.

[[Image:MGL32.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Milkor MGL.]]
[[Image:Inception6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"You mustn't be afraid to dream bigger, darling." Eames fires his Milkor MGL.]]

== Heckler & Koch P2A1 ==

A [[Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol]] is used by Eames to draw the guards away from the fortress in the third level (snow).

[[Image:H&K P2A1.JPG|400px|thumb|none|Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol 26.5mm]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Christopher Nolan]]
[[Category:Thriller]]

Inception

2010-07-21T01:28:42Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta Px4 Storm */

''Inception'' is a 2010 science fiction thriller from director [[Christopher Nolan]] (''[[The Dark Knight]]'') and starring [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] as a man specializing in stealing secrets locked away in people's dreams. '''All screencaps come from the official clips and trailers.'''

{{Film Title|Inception}}

[[Image:InceptionCoverArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Inception '''(2010)''''']]

__TOC__ 

'''WARNING! POSSIBLE SPOILERS'''

=Pistols=

== Beretta Px4 Storm ==

A [[Beretta Px4 Storm]] is carried by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) throughout the film.

[[Image:Px4_Storm.jpg‎‎|thumb|350px|none|Beretta Px4 ]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb draws his Beretta Storm and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) with his Glock in a production still.]]
[[Image:INCPT-92FS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note extended barrel and rail.]]
[[Image:Inception.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb loads his Beretta...]]
[[Image:Inception1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and chambers it.]]
[[Image:INCPT-PX4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) aiming his Px4 w/ suppressor in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:Inception3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb fires his suppressed Beretta Px4.]]
[[Image:Inception-Px4Suprressor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb threads a suppressor onto his Beretta.]]

== SIG-Sauer P232 ==

A [[SIG-Sauer P230|SIG-Sauer P232]] is used by Mal ([[Marion Cotillard]]).

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Inception7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mal holds her SIG in a publicity still.]]

== Walther PPK ==

Saito ([[Ken Watanabe]]) is seen with a [[Walther PPK]] in the second part of the opening scene.

[[Image:PPKS blued.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Walther PPK/S blued - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:INCPT-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saito aims a Walther PPK.]]

== Beretta 92FS ==

At least one of the men chasing Cobb in Mombasa had a [[Beretta 92FS]]. Also possibly seen in Arthur's dream (hotel).

[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm.]]

== Glock 17 ==

A [[Glock 17]] is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in the second dream level (hotel). An attacker chasing Cobb's team on a highway bridge is also seen firing a Glock.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9x19mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]
[[Image:Incept.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The man on the left appears to have a Glock pistol.]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in a publicity still.]]
[[Image:Inception2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his Glock 17. Judging by barrel size, this is a Non-gun or flashpaper gun]]

== H&K Pistol ==

Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) draws what appears to be either a [[Heckler & Koch USP|H&K USP Compact]] or a [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] judging by the trigger guard and ribs on the slide in the first dream level (city streets).

[[Image:INCPT-Glock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) fires his pistol.]]

== Vektor CP1==

A Black [[Vektor CP1]] is used by Saito on the third level (snow).

[[Image:VektorCP1Pistol.jpg‎ |thumb|none|300px|Vektor CP1 - other side - 9x19mm]]

== Browning BDM ==

What looks like a [[Browning BDM]] is used by Saito on the first level (city streets).

[[Image:Bdm 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning BDM 9x19mm]]

== Beretta 92SB ==

A [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92SB|Beretta 92SB]] is picked up by Robert Fischer Jr. ([[Cillian Murphy]]) in the second level (hotel).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

== SIG-Sauer P226 ==

A [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series|SIG-Sauer P226]] is used by Fischer in the third level (snowy mountain).

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|300px| SIG-Sauer P226 - 9mm]]

=Shotguns=

== Sawed-Off Double Barreled Shotgun ==

One of the men aboard a motorcycle chasing Cobb's team carries a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun#Short barreled Side by Side Shotgun (Sawed Off)|Sawed-Off Double Barrel Shotgun]].

[[Image:Remington SBS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Spartan Sawed Off shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:INCPT-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The man draws out his sawed off shotgun.]]
[[Image:Incept1.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The man with the sawed-off shotgun.]]

=Submachine Guns=

== Heckler & Koch MP5 ==

[[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5A3s]] in various configurations are used by the antagonists, particularly in the winter scene.

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:HKmp5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and safe-semi-two round burst trigger group]]

=Rifles=

== FN FAL ==

A guard in the introduction carries a [[FN FAL]] rifle with wooden handguards, which could possibly mean it is a L1-style rifle.

[[Image:C1A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Canadian version of the L1A1, Inch Pattern with Wood Stocks. Some Canadian SLR handguards have no vent holes.]]

== M4A1 Carbine ==

Various gunmen in the dreams are armed with [[M4A1]] carbines.

[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M4A1 with 6 position collapsible stock - 5.56x45mm.]]

== FN SCAR-L ==

The [[FN SCAR-L]] with an ACOG scope is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) to engage some snipers before he is interrupted by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]).

[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|400px|none|FN SCAR-L, 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Inception5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur firing his SCAR-L.]]
[[Image:Inception-SCAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his FN SCAR-L at snipers.]]

== SIG SG 552 ==

A winter camouflaged [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] is used by Eames during the snowy mission.

[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56x45mm]]

== Blaser R93 LRS2 ==

A [[Blaser R93 Sniper Rifle|Blaser R93 LRS2]] is used by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) in the winter sequence.

[[Image:Blaser93SniperRifleA.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Blaser R93 LRS2''' Precision Sniper Rifle - .338 Lapua Magnum. The rifle is usually outfitted with either a Parker Hale or Harris Bipod.]]
[[Image:Inception4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb with the rifle.]]
[[Image:Inception8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb with the rifle in a publicity still.]]

== Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 ==
One of the snipers not associated with the dream is seen attacking Cobb's group with a [[G3#Heckler & Koch G3SG/1|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1]].

[[Image:H&KSG1.jpg‎ |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Inception-G3sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper runs to cover with a Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 in his hands.]]

==Unknown Sniper Rifle==

An unknown sniper rifle is used by one of the snipers attacking Cobb's group.

[[Image:Inception-sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper aims his sniper rifle.]]

=Machine Guns=

==M240 Machine Gun==

A guard aboard a Humvee fires a mounted [[FN MAG#M240 Machine Gun|M240B]] during the winter scene.

[[Image:M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240B 7.62x51mm NATO with newer style lower handguard (designed to attach RIS rails via hex nut)]]

=Other=

==M26 Hand Grenade==

Saito uses a [[M26 hand grenade]] to ward off attackers during the winter scene.

[[Image:200px-M-67handgrenade.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M26 HE Frag hand grenade]]

==Milkor MGL==

The [[Milkor MGL]] is used by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) to take out a sniper hiding behind power lines.

[[Image:MGL32.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Milkor MGL.]]
[[Image:Inception6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"You mustn't be afraid to dream bigger, darling." Eames fires his Milkor MGL.]]

== Heckler & Koch P2A1 ==

A [[Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol]] is used by Eames to draw the guards away from the fortress in the third level (snow).

[[Image:H&K P2A1.JPG|400px|thumb|none|Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol 26.5mm]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Christopher Nolan]]
[[Category:Thriller]]

Inception

2010-07-21T01:26:41Z

PunisherDave: /* Beretta Px4 Storm */

''Inception'' is a 2010 science fiction thriller from director [[Christopher Nolan]] (''[[The Dark Knight]]'') and starring [[Leonardo DiCaprio]] as a man specializing in stealing secrets locked away in people's dreams. '''All screencaps come from the official clips and trailers.'''

{{Film Title|Inception}}

[[Image:InceptionCoverArt.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Inception '''(2010)''''']]

__TOC__ 

'''WARNING! POSSIBLE SPOILERS'''

=Pistols=

== Beretta Px4 Storm ==

A [[Beretta Px4 Storm]] is carried by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) throughout the film.

[[Image:PX$SD.jpg‎|thumb|350px|none|Beretta Px4 Storm Special Duty, .45 ACP w/ desert tan frame.]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb draws his Beretta Storm and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) with his Glock in a production still.]]
[[Image:INCPT-92FS.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note extended barrel and rail.]]
[[Image:Inception.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb loads his Beretta...]]
[[Image:Inception1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|...and chambers it.]]
[[Image:INCPT-PX4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) aiming his Px4 w/ suppressor in a promotional still.]]
[[Image:Inception3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb fires his suppressed Beretta Px4.]]
[[Image:Inception-Px4Suprressor.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb threads a suppressor onto his Beretta.]]

== SIG-Sauer P232 ==

A [[SIG-Sauer P230|SIG-Sauer P232]] is used by Mal ([[Marion Cotillard]]).

[[Image:SigP232.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sig P232 - Stainless Steel finish - .380 acp/9mm kurz. Built between 1996-Present.]]
[[Image:Inception7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mal holds her SIG in a publicity still.]]

== Walther PPK ==

Saito ([[Ken Watanabe]]) is seen with a [[Walther PPK]] in the second part of the opening scene.

[[Image:PPKS blued.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Walther PPK/S blued - .380 ACP]]
[[Image:INCPT-Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Saito aims a Walther PPK.]]

== Beretta 92FS ==

At least one of the men chasing Cobb in Mombasa had a [[Beretta 92FS]]. Also possibly seen in Arthur's dream (hotel).

[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Beretta 92FS - 9x19mm.]]

== Glock 17 ==

A [[Glock 17]] is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in the second dream level (hotel). An attacker chasing Cobb's team on a highway bridge is also seen firing a Glock.

[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Generation 3 Glock 17 9x19mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]
[[Image:Incept.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The man on the left appears to have a Glock pistol.]]
[[Image:Inception-PX4-publicitystill.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb and Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) in a publicity still.]]
[[Image:Inception2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his Glock 17. Judging by barrel size, this is a Non-gun or flashpaper gun]]

== H&K Pistol ==

Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) draws what appears to be either a [[Heckler & Koch USP|H&K USP Compact]] or a [[Heckler & Koch P2000]] judging by the trigger guard and ribs on the slide in the first dream level (city streets).

[[Image:INCPT-Glock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) fires his pistol.]]

== Vektor CP1==

A Black [[Vektor CP1]] is used by Saito on the third level (snow).

[[Image:VektorCP1Pistol.jpg‎ |thumb|none|300px|Vektor CP1 - other side - 9x19mm]]

== Browning BDM ==

What looks like a [[Browning BDM]] is used by Saito on the first level (city streets).

[[Image:Bdm 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning BDM 9x19mm]]

== Beretta 92SB ==

A [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta 92SB|Beretta 92SB]] is picked up by Robert Fischer Jr. ([[Cillian Murphy]]) in the second level (hotel).

[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]

== SIG-Sauer P226 ==

A [[SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series|SIG-Sauer P226]] is used by Fischer in the third level (snowy mountain).

[[Image:SigP226.jpg|thumb|none|300px| SIG-Sauer P226 - 9mm]]

=Shotguns=

== Sawed-Off Double Barreled Shotgun ==

One of the men aboard a motorcycle chasing Cobb's team carries a [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun#Short barreled Side by Side Shotgun (Sawed Off)|Sawed-Off Double Barrel Shotgun]].

[[Image:Remington SBS.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington Spartan Sawed Off shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:INCPT-Shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The man draws out his sawed off shotgun.]]
[[Image:Incept1.JPG|thumb|none|600px|The man with the sawed-off shotgun.]]

=Submachine Guns=

== Heckler & Koch MP5 ==

[[Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler & Koch MP5A3s]] in various configurations are used by the antagonists, particularly in the winter scene.

[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:HKmp5A3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and safe-semi-two round burst trigger group]]

=Rifles=

== FN FAL ==

A guard in the introduction carries a [[FN FAL]] rifle with wooden handguards, which could possibly mean it is a L1-style rifle.

[[Image:C1A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Canadian version of the L1A1, Inch Pattern with Wood Stocks. Some Canadian SLR handguards have no vent holes.]]

== M4A1 Carbine ==

Various gunmen in the dreams are armed with [[M4A1]] carbines.

[[Image:ColtM4A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Colt M4A1 with 6 position collapsible stock - 5.56x45mm.]]

== FN SCAR-L ==

The [[FN SCAR-L]] with an ACOG scope is used by Arthur ([[Joseph Gordon-Levitt]]) to engage some snipers before he is interrupted by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]).

[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|400px|none|FN SCAR-L, 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Inception5.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur firing his SCAR-L.]]
[[Image:Inception-SCAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Arthur fires his FN SCAR-L at snipers.]]

== SIG SG 552 ==

A winter camouflaged [[SIG SG 550#SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552]] is used by Eames during the snowy mission.

[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56x45mm]]

== Blaser R93 LRS2 ==

A [[Blaser R93 Sniper Rifle|Blaser R93 LRS2]] is used by Cobb ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) in the winter sequence.

[[Image:Blaser93SniperRifleA.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Blaser R93 LRS2''' Precision Sniper Rifle - .338 Lapua Magnum. The rifle is usually outfitted with either a Parker Hale or Harris Bipod.]]
[[Image:Inception4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb with the rifle.]]
[[Image:Inception8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Cobb with the rifle in a publicity still.]]

== Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 ==
One of the snipers not associated with the dream is seen attacking Cobb's group with a [[G3#Heckler & Koch G3SG/1|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1]].

[[Image:H&KSG1.jpg‎ |thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:Inception-G3sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper runs to cover with a Heckler & Koch G3SG/1 in his hands.]]

==Unknown Sniper Rifle==

An unknown sniper rifle is used by one of the snipers attacking Cobb's group.

[[Image:Inception-sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The sniper aims his sniper rifle.]]

=Machine Guns=

==M240 Machine Gun==

A guard aboard a Humvee fires a mounted [[FN MAG#M240 Machine Gun|M240B]] during the winter scene.

[[Image:M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M240B 7.62x51mm NATO with newer style lower handguard (designed to attach RIS rails via hex nut)]]

=Other=

==M26 Hand Grenade==

Saito uses a [[M26 hand grenade]] to ward off attackers during the winter scene.

[[Image:200px-M-67handgrenade.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M26 HE Frag hand grenade]]

==Milkor MGL==

The [[Milkor MGL]] is used by Eames ([[Tom Hardy]]) to take out a sniper hiding behind power lines.

[[Image:MGL32.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Milkor MGL.]]
[[Image:Inception6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"You mustn't be afraid to dream bigger, darling." Eames fires his Milkor MGL.]]

== Heckler & Koch P2A1 ==

A [[Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol]] is used by Eames to draw the guards away from the fortress in the third level (snow).

[[Image:H&K P2A1.JPG|400px|thumb|none|Heckler & Koch P2A1 Flare Pistol 26.5mm]]

[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]
[[Category:Christopher Nolan]]
[[Category:Thriller]]

Talk:Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising

2010-07-19T14:43:20Z

PunisherDave:

[[Image:Operation Flashpoint Dragon RisingM16s.JPG]]

Check out the oddly proportioned magazines. What on earth are those supposed to be? 25 rounders? I haven't played this game yet, but if the devs can't even get the proportions of a 30 round AR-15 mag right it makes me wonder what else they screwed up, it doesn't instill much confidence. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 14:20, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

:They look a lot like the new 20 round curved magazines I've been seeing all over the damn place. And if you're looking for a great tactical game, OF:DR is it. If you're looking for another CoD, look elsewhere. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:41, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

::Interesting, I've never seen those before.

::I'm regarding Dragon Rising in comparison to the first Operation Flashpoint and the ArmA series, not the more mainstream shooters which OFP never had a lot in common with, so relax, I'm not one of ''them''. :P

I got this game for my birthday, and it was nothing like I thought it would be. More than once did my teammates get themselves killed because I told them to hide behind a wall, but apparently they thought I meant the wall of Chinese ammunition coming at us. I got to the third mission, then got stuck. Morons fail to warn me of a Chinese flanking manuever until they were 25m off, and my LVT-5's 25mm cannon conveniently can't hit them because they're so bloody close. I cashed it in at Gamestop to get money for my Mosin-Nagant M44. I guess I am too used to Call of Duty...[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 02:01, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

==PLA Sniper Rifle==

I just played the game recently and I found what I assume to be an anti-materiel weapon named the M99 which is used by the PLA SpecOps snipers in the final mission (Dragon Fury). I'm new to this editing thing and would like some help with this. I don't have pictures as well, so I have no idea what to do. --[[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]]

==ScreenShots==
Someone who has this game needs to add screens please [[User:PunisherDave|PunisherDave.45]] 14:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)PunisherDave[[User:PunisherDave|PunisherDave.45]] 14:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Heckler & Koch MP5

2010-07-19T14:41:11Z

PunisherDave: /* Film */

==Specifications==

'''Type:''' Sub-machine gun

'''Caliber:''' 9x19mm Parabellum (MP5), .40 S&W (MP5/40), 10mm (MP5/10)

'''Capacity:''' 15, 30 round box magazines, 100 round Beta-C drum magazine

'''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi/Full-Auto (MP5A1, MP5A2, MP5A3, MP5K) & Safe/Semi/Burst/Full-Auto (MP5A4, MP5A5, MP5KA4)

----

'''The Heckler & Koch MP5 family of sub-machine guns is used by the following actors in the following movies, television series, anime, and video games:'''

== Heckler & Koch MP5A2 ==
[[Image:MP5.jpg‎|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9x19mm with early "slimline" handguard]]
[[Image:H&KMP5A2WideForearm.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9x19mm with "tropical" wide handguard]]
[[Image:2MP5A2.jpg‎|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight]]
[[Image:H&KMP5-N.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5-N 9x19mm, an A2 model with a Navy Trigger Group]]
[[Image:SWATMP5.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and Navy trigger group, used in ''[[S.W.A.T.]]'']]
The first MP5s looked very different than the MP5s that Movie and television viewers have become accustomed to. Since the early models were rarely (if ever) seen outside of Europe and not manufactured in the same numbers as the common variants (starting with the A2), this page begins with the MP5A2 model, since that is the earliest model MP5 that would be seen in World Cinema.

Also many MP5A2s (and A3s) were retrofitted with ambidextrous Navy lower trigger groups (both in the real world and Movie armories) and many times these MP5N models are confused with the newer factory issued MP5A4s and MP5A5s. The MP5-N (Navy) has a unique 3 lug and threaded barrel unique to the N variant versus four firing positions (which indicates it is a factory A4 or A5 variant).

=== Film ===

* "Company Men", [[Angelina Jolie]] as Jane Smith, and [[Brad Pitt]] as John Smith in ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]''

* [[Samuel L. Jackson]] as Sergeant Dan "Hondo" Harrelson, [[Colin Farrell]] as Officer Jim Street, [[Michelle Rodriguez]] as Officer Chris Sánchez, [[LL Cool J]] as Officer Deacon "Deke" Kay, and [[Brian Van Holt]] as Officer Michael Boxer in ''[[S.W.A.T.]]'' (fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Miami P.D. SWAT in ''[[Bad Boys II]]'' (fitted with Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Sheriff's Department SWAT officers in ''[[Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines]]'' (fitted with Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight and navy trigger group)

* The SWAT team in ''[[Biggles: Adventures in Time]]'' (with slimline handguards and straight magazines)

* Serbian soldier named Goran in ''[[Savior]]''

* N.Y.P.D. SWAT members in ''[[The Siege]]''

* British police and a Hostage Rescue Team in ''[[Patriot Games]]'' (with slimline handguards)

* FBI Agents in ''[[Rush Hour]]''

* SWAT officers in ''[[The Negotiator]]''

* ''[[Sniper 2]]''

* Interpol Agents in ''[[Lord of War]]''

* Agent Sever ([[Lucy Liu]]) in ''[[Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever]]''

* Agent Jeremiah Ecks ([[Antonio Banderas]]) in ''[[Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever]]''

* One of Yero's Henchmen in ''[[Miami Vice (2006)]]''

* L.A.P.D. SWAT in ''[[Dragon Wars: D-War]]'' (fitted with Surefire dedicated fore end weapon lights)

* FBI HRT members in ''[[The Cell]]''

* Colonel Jorgensen ([[John Forgeham]]) in ''[[Sheena]]''

* Soldiers in ''[[Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend]]''

=== Television ===

* ''[[Seven Days]]''

* Miami P.D. SWAT in ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' (with scopes and Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Las Vegas P.D. SWAT in ''[[CSI: Crime Scene Investigation]]'' (fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* N.Y.P.D. SWAT in ''[[CSI: NY]]'' (episode: "Hostage", fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Terrorists in ''[[Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman]]'' (fixed with zoomable sights and flashlight)

* SWAT/SRT team members in ''[[Millennium]]''

* SWAT/HRT in [[Criminal Minds]].

* ''[[Bugs]]'' (episode "Out Of The Hive")

* Canadian Police SRT Officer in ''[[Degrassi]]'' (episode: "Danger Zone")

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Enter the Matrix]] || || || With and without weaponlight || 2003
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker]] || || || || 2010
|-
|}

=== Anime ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| I.S.S.P. SWAT || [[Cowboy Bebop the Movie: Knockin' on Heaven's Door]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights || 2001
|-
| Bank Robbers || [[Case Closed]] || MP5NA2 || 2010
|-
| Various || [[Jyu-oh-sei]] || MP5NA2 || 2006
|-
| Missou's bodyguards || [[Stigma of the Wind]] |||| 2007
|-
|}

== Heckler & Koch MP5A3 ==
[[Image:HK MP5.JPG|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with original "slimline" handguard and straight "waffle"-style magazine - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&KMP5A3slimforearm.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with original "slimline" forearm - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:MP5A3 StockCollapsed.jpg‎|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP002M-1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight]]
[[Image:Hk-mp5n.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Navy trigger group]]
[[Image:HKmp5A3.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and safe-semi-two round burst trigger group]]

''Note: Some MP5A3s featured in films of the 1980's-90's like ''[[Die Hard]]'', ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'', ''[[Speed]]'', and ''[[Air Force One]]'', are actually "chopped and converted" HK94 Carbines.''

=== Film ===
* F.B.I. Hostage Rescue Team in ''[[Hannibal]]'' (2001)

* ''[[The Class of 1999]]''

* Terrorists and [[Bruce Willis]] as Detective John McClaine in ''[[Die Hard]]'' (Chopped and Converted HK94s.)

* [[Mitchell Ryan]] as General Peter McAllister and [[Mel Gibson]] as Detective Martin Riggs in ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' (also L.A.P.D. SWAT in a deleted scene) (Chopped and Converted HK94s.)

* Ramon Cota's men in ''[[Delta Force 2: The Colombian Connection]]''
* [[Ron Eldard]] as Mike Durant in ''[[Black Hawk Down]]''

* [[Ken Takakura]] as Inspector Masahiro in ''[[Black Rain]]''

* Rudd's henchmen, [[Danny Glover]] as Detective Roger Murtaugh and [[Mel Gibson]] as Detective Martin Riggs in ''[[Lethal Weapon 2]]'' (seen with and without brass catchers)

* Thugs in ''[[Licence To Kill]]''

* [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]] as Jericho Cane in ''[[End of Days]]'' (fitted with [[M203 grenade launcher]])

* Terrorists, [[William Sadler]] as Colonel Stuart, and [[Bruce Willis]] as Lt. John McClane in ''[[Die Hard 2]]'' (with two magazines taped together 'jungle style')

* Sweepers in ''[[Equilibrium]]''.

* Several Mercenaries in ''[[Half Past Dead]]'' modified with lasers.

* Miami P.D. SWAT members in ''[[Transporter 2]]''

* One of the Merovingian's henchmen in ''[[The Matrix Reloaded]]''

* Serbian soldiers in ''[[Behind Enemy Lines]]''

* N.Y.P.D. SWAT in ''[[16 Blocks]]'' (fitted with Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights, with SEF and Navy trigger groups)

* Vampire Death Dealers and Lycans in ''[[Underworld]]'' (the latter having Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Escobedo's men and [[Raymond Cruz]] as Domingo Chavez in ''[[Clear and Present Danger]]'' (Cruz using one fitted with a suppressor)

* [[Michael Biehn]] as Commander Anderson,in ''[[The Rock]]''
* SAS trainers in ''[[The Living Daylights]]''

* [[Sean Patrick Flanery]] as Connor MacManus in ''[[The Boondock Saints]]''

* [[Ti Lung]] as Sung Tse-Ho in ''[[A Better Tomorrow]]''

* [[Chow Yun-Fat]] as Inspector Tequila Yuen, [[Tony Leung]] as Alan, Hong Kong SDU Team, and Johnny Wong's Thugs in ''[[Hard Boiled]]''

* N.Y.P.D. SWAT officers in ''[[Light It Up]]'' (fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights, laser pointers, and scopes)

* Guards, [[Vinnie Jones]] as Ewan McStarley, and [[Steve Austin]] as Jack Conrad in ''[[The Condemned]]''

* N.Y.P.D. and FBI SWAT in ''[[Siege, The|The Siege]]'' (the latter fitted with laser pointers and red dot sights)

* Terrorists dressed as Toronto ERT Operatives in ''[[The Sentinel]]''

* U.S. military personnel in ''[[Independence Day]]''

* [[Timothy Olyphant]] as Agent 47 in ''[[Hitman]]'' (fitted with RIS handguards)

* Biker gang members and [[Vin Diesel]] as Toorop in ''[[Babylon A.D.]]'' (fitted with RIS handguards)

* FBI SWAT Team members in ''[[Along Came a Spider]]''

* [[Kevin Pollack]] as Hockney, [[Stephen Baldwin]] as McManus and [[Kevin Spacey]] as Verbal Kint in ''[[The Usual Suspects]]''

* U.S. Secret Service agents in ''[[X2: X-Men United]]'' (fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Perret's guards in ''[[Tango & Cash]]''

* [[Keanu Reeves]] as Jack Traven in ''[[Speed]]''

* A shop owner in ''[[Strange Days]]''

* Prince Otwani and his soldiers in ''[[Sheena]]''

* [[Tom Sizemore]] as Lieutenant Underhill and [[Thomas Jane]] as Henry in ''[[Dreamcatcher]]''

* A federal agent in ''[[X-Men]]'' (with Navy trigger group)

=== Television ===

* U.S. military personnel in ''[[Stargate SG-1]]''

* CO-19 members in ''[[Doctor Who (New series)|Doctor Who]]''

* SAS members in ''[[Bottom]]'' (episode: "Carnival")

* Gang members in ''[[CSI: Crime Scene Investigation]]'' (episode: "Poppin' Tags")

* Pest exterminators in ''[[Family Guy]]'' (fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* L.A.P.D. SWAT in ''[[Seven Days]]'' (episode "Doppleganger", fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* [[Aaron James Cash]] as the Terminator in ''[[Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]'' (fitted with RIS rails and handguards)

* ''[[Situation Critical]]''

* Used by Sam Hanna ([[L.L. Cool J]]) in the premiere of ''[[NCIS Los Angeles]]'' to kill a dirty LAPD detective
* Used by several people in [[Alarm für cobra 11]]

=== Anime ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| Special Forces || [[Kochikame]] || With & Without Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights || 1996 - 2005
|-
| Narcotics Squad members || [[Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights, 15-round magazines and no shoulder stocks || 2002 - 2003
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Hitman: Codename 47]] || || || || 2000
|-
| [[Kane and Lynch: Dead Men]] || || || With & without Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight || 2007
|-
| [[007: Agent Under Fire]] || "Koffer & Stock KS7" || || || 2001
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || || With Navy trigger group || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || || With Navy trigger group || 2005
|-
| [[Grand Theft Auto: Vice City]] || || || || 2002
|-
| [[Shadow the Hedgehog]] || || || With Navy trigger group || 2005
|-
| [[Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas]] || || || || 2005
|-
| [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] || || || || 2003
|-
| [[Resident Evil 5]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[SWAT 4]] || || || || 2005
|-
| [[Half-Life]] || || || With mounted grenade launcher || 1998
|-
|}
 

== Heckler & Koch MP5A4 ==
[[Image:H&KMP5A4.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A4 9x19mm - The A4 has an additional option on the selector for '3 round burst' thus possessing four fire options - Safe, Semi Auto, 3 round burst and full auto.]]

=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| || SWAT officers || [[Crank]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight || 2006
|-
| || Japanese counter-terrorism soldiers || [[Battle Royale II: Requiem]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight || 2003
|-
|}

=== Television ===

* ''[[The Unit]]''

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2]] || || || With optional M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || || 2008
|-
|}

===Anime===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|Media Betterment Committee tactical operators|| [[Library War]] || With & Without Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights || 2008
|-
|}

== Heckler & Koch MP5A5 ==
[[Image:H&KMP5A5.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler and Koch MP5A5 9x19mm - Same as the MP5A4 but with a telescoping stock. Both the A4 & A5 variants have the additional option for '3 round burst' on the selector.]]

=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| || SWAT officers || [[Adulthood]] || || 2008
|-
| || U.S. Navy SEALs || [[Rock, The|The Rock]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight || 1996
|-
| || Anarchy 99 Henchmen || [[XXX]] || With RIS foregrips & Beta-C drum magazines || 2002
|-
| || N.Y.P.D SWAT || [[16 Blocks]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights || 2006
|-
| || Guerrilla || [[Tropic Thunder]] || || 2008
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas]] || "MP5N" || || With optional Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight, M68 Aimpoint red dot & ACOG scopes || 2006
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]] || "MP5N" || || With optional Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight, silencer, M68 Aimpoint red dot & ACOG scopes || 2008
|-
| [[Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield]] || || w/ ACOGs, suppressors and high-capacity magazines || || 2003
|-
|-
| [[Counter Strike]] ||"KM Submachine Gun" || || || 2000
|-
| [[Counter Strike: Condition Zero]] ||"KM Submachine Gun" || || || 2003
|-
| [[Counter Strike: Source]] ||"KM Submachine Gun" || || || 2004
|-
| [[Black]] || || || || 2006
|-
| [[Counter-Strike Online]] || "KM Submachine Gun" || With White Tiger doll|||| 2007
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || With RIS foregrip and MP5K-PDW folding stock || 2008
|-
| [[Hitman: Contracts]] || || || || 2004
|-
| [[Parasite Eve II]] || || || With weaponlight || 1999
|-
| [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]] || || || || 2007
|-
| [[SOCOM: Confrontation]] || "HK5" || || || 2008
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3]] || MK5 || || || 2010
|-
| [[Left 4 Dead 2]] || H&K MP5 || w/ the tactical flashlight and optional laser sight 50 round || German Version only || 2009
|-
|}

=== Anime ===

* GUN Agents in ''[[Sonic X]]''
 

== Heckler & Koch MP5SD ==
[[Image:MP5SD3.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 9x19mm with S-E-F trigger group and Stock Extended.]]
[[Image:H&KMP5SD6.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD6 9x19mm with Stock Extended and 3-round trigger group. What is unusual is that most Airsoft versions of this gun don't have the fourth (3 rd burst) position whereas the real gun does.]]
=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Will Smith]] || Det. Mike Lowrey || [[Bad Boys II]] || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope and Surefire Universal weaponlight || 2003
|-
| [[Antoni Corone]] || DEA Agent Tony Dodd || [[Bad Boys II]] || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope & Surefire Universal weaponlight || 2003
|-
| || Miami P.D. SWAT || [[Bad Boys II]] || With Surefire Universal weaponlight || 2003
|-
| [[Kim Bodina]] || Harald || [[In China They Eat Dogs]] || || 1999
|-
| || Serbian gangsters || [[In China They Eat Dogs]] || || 1999
|-
| [[Kris Kristofferson]] || Whistler || [[Blade]] || || 1998
|-
| || Mexican PJF Agents || [[A Man Apart]] || || 2003
|-
| || Simulated terrorists || [[Die Another Day]] || || 2002
|-
| || Security Forces personnel || [[One, The|The One]] || With custom suppressor, scope, and [[Heckler & Koch G36|G36]]-style stock || 2001
|-
| || SFPD SWAT officers || [[Ticker]] || || 2001
|-
| [[Charlie Sheen]] || Lt. Dale Hawkins || [[Navy SEALs]] || || 1990
|-
| [[Dennis Haysbert]] || Graham || [[Navy SEALs]] || || 1990
|-
| [[Michael Biehn]] || Lt. James Curran || [[Navy SEALs]] || || 1990
|-
|}

=== Television ===

* Heroin Dealer's Thugs in ''[[Burn Notice]]'' - Season 1, Episode 11: ''Loose Ends, Part 1'', fitted with Art I scopes.

* Alliance soldiers during boarding of Firefly in ''[[Firefly]]'' - Season 1, Episode 2 ''Bushwhacked''. Also Alliance guard in interrogation room.

=== Video games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[007: The World Is Not Enough]] || "Deutsche M9S" || || With laser pointer and scope || 2000
|-
| [[Operation Flashpoint]] || || || || 2001
|-
| [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]] || || || || 2007
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Code of Honor 2: Conspiracy Island]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Project I.G.I]] || || || || 2000
|-
| [[Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories]] || || || || 2006
|-
| [[Far Cry 2]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2]] || || || With optional M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
| [[Hitman 2: Silent Assassin]] || "SMG-SD6" || || || 2002
|-
| [[Shadow Force: Razor Unit]] || "Mp-5S" || || || 2002
|-
| [[SOCOM: Confrontation]] || "HK5 SD" || || || 2008
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3]] || "HK5" || || || 2010
|-
| [[Mercenaries 2: World in Flames]]|||||Red painter's tape on the magazine||||2008
|-
| [[America's Army]] || || || Multiplayer mode only, non-playable || 2002
|-
| [[Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield]] || "MP5SD5" || || With optional ACOG scope and high-capacity magazine || 2003
|-
|}

===Anime===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|Media Betterment Committee tactical operators|| [[Library War]] || MP5SD5 || 2008
|-
|}

== Heckler & Koch HK94==
[[Image:HK94.jpg|thumb|400px|right|Heckler & Koch HK94A3 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:HK 94A3.jpg|thumb|400px|right|Heckler & Koch HK94A2 with Full Stock - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K94Conversion.jpg‎|thumb|400px|right|The "Fake MP5", the Heckler & Koch HK94A3 Converted to full auto fire, shortened barrel and added third firing position on trigger pack - 9x19mm. This version was used in many films during the 1980s and 1990s.]]
[[Image:HK_94A2chopped.jpg|thumb|400px|right|The "Fake MP5", the Heckler & Koch HK94A2 Converted to full auto fire, shortened barrel and added third firing position on trigger pack - 9x19mm. This version was used in many films during the 1980s and 1990s.]]

The Heckler & Koch HK94 was the civilian semiautomatic version of the famous MP5 Submachine gun (with the 'legal' 16" carbine barrel). It was imported in the late 1970s to late 1980s (its importation banned in 1989 by the infamous ATF re-interpretation of the "Sporting Clause" of GCA-68. In May 1989 the ATF determined that the imported 'assault weapons' were not suitable for sporting purposes as put forth by the older GCA 68.), however many more HK94s were imported into the country than factory original MP5s during that time period. In the early 1980s, it was cheaper to convert the plentiful and less expensive semiauto gun and register it as a Title II weapon. A large portion of the full auto MP5s coming into the country were slated for Law Enforcement and Military sales.

''Note: In some films of the 1980's and 1990's, the HK94 is "chopped and converted", to look like the MP5A3.''

===Film===

* Terrorists and [[Bruce Willis]] as Detective John McClane in ''[[Die Hard]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble MP5A3s.)
* Terrorists and [[Harrison Ford]] as President James Marshall in ''[[Air Force One]]'' (Chopped and Converted HK94s.)
* [[Mitchell Ryan]] as General Peter McAllister and [[Mel Gibson]] as Detective Martin Riggs in ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' (also LAPD SWAT in a deleted scene) (Chopped and Converted to look like MP5A3s.)

* Militia gang member in ''[[Pink Cadillac]]''

* Mr Big ([[Joe Pesci]])'s Troopers in ''[[Moonwalker]]'' (Modified to look futuristic with an ammo counter)
* Several members of the Commando team in ''[[Predator]]'' (Chopped and Converted to look like MP5A3s)
* ''[[Police Academy 5]]''
* [[Sean Connery]] as John Mason, and Navy SEALs in ''[[The Rock]]'' (some fitted with tactical flashlights.) (Chopped and Converted HK94s)
* ''[[Beverly Hills Cop II]]''

* Roddy Piper as Nada in ''[[They Live]]''

* [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]] as Richards in ''[[The Running Man]]''
* [[Kurt Russell]] as Colonel Jack O'Neil and the USAF Spec-Ops team in ''[[Stargate]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble MP5A2 and MP5A3s) (Some fitted with tactical flashlites or scopes)
* [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]] as Mark Kaminsky in ''[[Raw Deal]]''
* SWAT Officers in ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble MP5A2s and MP5A3s.)
* ''[[Commando]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble the MP5A3)
* Seen being worked on in the gunstore in ''[[Jumanji]]''
* Chang Sing gang member in ''[[Big Trouble in Little China]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble MP5A3)
* SWAT Officers in ''[[Cobra]]''
* [[Mickey Jones]] as Chub Luke in ''[[Extreme Prejudice]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble MP5A3)
===Television===

* Used by LAPD SWAT team members (with surefire lights) on ''[[Moonlight]]'' (2007) (HK94 Chopped & Converted)

* Used by Detective Matthew Sikes ([[Gary Graham]]) and Detective George Francisco ([[Eric Pierpoint]]) in ''[[Alien Nation - The Series]]'' (Full length HK94 Carbine)

* ''[[The A-Team]]''

* Seen in the hands of Randall Flagg's henchmen in Las Vegas in ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]''

* Used by one of Ari's terrorists in ''[[Navy NCIS: Naval Criminal Investigative Service]]'' Season 2, Episode 23: Twilight

===Anime===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| || [[Kochikame, The UFO Movie]] || ||
|-
|}
 

== Heckler & Koch MP5K ==
Note: ''Some MP5Ks seen in film are modified SP89s that are fitted with a forward handgrip and converted to full auto.''

[[Image:MP5K-SEF.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Heckler & Koch MP5K - version with SEF Plastic Trigger Pack - 9x19mm. This is a very well worn Motion picture weapon]]
[[Image:MP5KA3.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Heckler & Koch MP5KN 9x19mm - updated with the Navy Trigger Group. The Navy trigger group dates to 1985, the MP5K-PDW to 1991. The MP5K is available in the newer MP5KN, MP5KA4, and MP5KA5 configurations, which all have the ambidextrous trigger group. Another 'well used' actual movie blank firing gun.]]
[[Image:MP5KA4.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Heckler & Koch MP5KA4 (3 round burst added) with 15-round magazine - 9x19mm]]
=== Film ===

* [[Keanu Reeves]] as Neo in ''[[The Matrix]]''

* [[Sean Bean]] as Spence in ''[[Ronin]]''

* ''Company Men'', [[Brad Pitt]] as John Smith, and [[Angelina Jolie]] as Jane Smith in ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]

* [[Chow Yun-Fat]] as Ah Jong and [[Danny Lee]] as Li Ying in ''[[The Killer]]''

* [[Laurence Fishburne]] as Morpheus in ''[[The Matrix Revolutions]]'' (with foregrips removed, exposing barrels)

* Arjen Rudd ([[Joss Ackland]])'s henchmen in ''[[Lethal Weapon 2]]''

* Gangbanger in ''[[Lethal Weapon 3]]''

* [[Samuel L. Jackson]] as Zeus Carver, [[Jeremy Irons]] as Simon Gruber, Simon's men, and [[Bruce Willis]] as Lt. John McClane in ''[[Die Hard with a Vengeance]]''

* Johnny Wong's Thugs and Hong Kong SDU Team in ''[[Hard Boiled]]''

* Gang member disguised as a hobo in ''[[S.W.A.T.]]''

* A Terrorist, U.S. Special Forces Operators, and [[Harrison Ford]] as President James Marshall in ''[[Air Force One]]'' (The Special Forces' fitted with suppressors.)

* Terrorists in ''[[Die Hard 2]]'' (with two magazines taped together 'jungle style'.)

* [[Liam Neeson]] as Bryan Mills in ''[[Taken]]''

* [[Michelle Rodriguez]] as Rain Ocampo in ''[[Resident Evil]]''

* [[Milla Jovovich]] as Alice in ''[[Resident Evil: Apocalypse]]''

* [[Steven Seagal]] as Chief Casey Ryback, and [[Erika Eleniak]] as Jordan Tate in ''[[Under Siege]]''

* Gangsters and [[Martin Lawrence]] as Detective Marcus Burnett in ''[[Bad Boys]]''

* Renard's men and [[Robbie Coltrane]] as Valentin Zukovsky in ''[[The World Is Not Enough]]''

* One of the Merovingian's henchmen in ''[[The Matrix Reloaded]]''

* One of Johnny Tapia's cronies in ''[[Bad Boys II]]''

* Gustav Graves' henchmen in ''[[Die Another Day]]'' (with and without suppressors, including at least one with the foregrip removed exposing the barrel)

* Vampire Death Dealers in ''[[Underworld]]''

* [[Olek Krupa]] as Miroslav Lokar in ''[[Behind Enemy Lines]]''

* [[Jim Caviezel]] as Carroll Oerstadt in ''[[Deja Vu]]

* [[Michael Jai White]] as Al Simmons in ''[[Spawn]]'' (fitted with suppressor in one scene)

* Vampires in ''[[Blade]]''

* [[Ethan Hawke]] as Interpol Agent Jack Valentine in ''[[Lord of War]]''

* [[Clive Owen]] as Mr. Smith in ''[[Shoot 'Em Up]]''

* Mansion guards in ''[[True Lies]]''

* Secret Service in ''[[The Sentinel]]''

* Chicago P.D. SWAT officers in ''[[I, Robot]]''

* Israeli bodyguards in ''[[Lucky Number Slevin]]''

* [[Jake Busey]] as Krug in ''[[Enemy of the State]]''

* Colombian terrorists, U.S. counter-terrorist operatives, [[Sean Astin]] as William "Billy" Tepper, and [[Michael Champion]] as Jack Thorpe in ''[[Toy Soldiers]]''

* [[Mark Wahlberg]] as Max Payne and [[Mila Kunis]] as Mona Sax in ''[[Max Payne (2008)|Max Payne]]''

* ''[[Babylon A.D.]]''

* Quan and Lopez in ''[[Tango & Cash]]''

* [[Justin Timberlake]] as Joshua Pollack in ''[[Edison]]''

* Sweepers in ''[[Equilibrium]]''.

* ''[[Delta Force 2: The Colombian Connection]]''

* ''[[The Living Daylights]]''(Heavily modified)

* [[Paul Bettany]] as Michael in ''[[Legion]]''

* [[Ray Stevenson]] as Frank Castle/ The Punisher in''[[Punisher: War Zone]]''

=== Television ===

* Pest exterminators in ''[[Family Guy]]''

* ''[[Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]''

* Bank robbers in ''[[CSI: Crime Scene Investigation]]'' (episode: "Inside the Box")

* Secret Service agents in seasons 2, 5, and 7 of ''[[24]]''

=== Anime ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| Faye Valentine || [[Cowboy Bebop]] || With 15-round magazine || 1998 - 1999
|-
| Faye Valentine || [[Cowboy Bebop the Movie: Knockin' on Heaven's Door]] || || 2001
|-
| Francesco || [[Noir]] || || 2001
|-
| || [[Asobi ni Ikuyo!]] || ||2010
|}

=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[GoldenEye 007]]||D5K Deutsche||Available with and without suppressor||||1997
|-
|[[007: Nightfire]]||Deutsche M9K||w/ 15-round magazine and removable suppressor||||2002
|-
|[[Stranglehold]]||||||||2007
|-
|[[007: Everything or Nothing]]||||||||2003
|-
|[[Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories]]||||w/ extended barrel and modified handgrip||||2005
|-
|[[Saints Row 2]]||SKR-9 Threat||w/ straight 40 round magazine||||2008
|-
|[[The Conduit]]||||||||2009
|-
|[[Timesplitters: Future Perfect]]||||||||2005
|-
|[[Modern Warfare 2]]||||||Akimbo||2009
|-
|}

== Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW ==
[[Image:MP5K-PDWEarly.jpg‎|thumb|right|400px|MP5K 9x19mm with the PDW-style folding stock attached, commonly used in films to emulate the PDW. The real MP5K-PDW, illustrated below, is distinctive in having the longer barrel and the newer trigger group.]]
[[Image:MP5K-PDW.jpg|thumb|right|400px|MP5K-PDW 9x19mm with extended barrel (with 3 lugs & folding stock]]
The PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) was an upgrade to the MP5K, adding a synthetic folding stock to create a stable firing platform for more accurate fire, and extended the barrel and put on three lugs to quick attach flash hiders or suppressors.
=== Film ===

* [[Pierce Brosnan]] as James Bond, and Carver's henchmen including [[Götz Otto]] as Richard Stamper in ''[[Tomorrow Never Dies]]'' (with side-folding stock)

* ''[[The Kingdom]]'' (with side-folding stocks)

* [[Tom Cruise]] as Ethan Hunt in ''[[Mission: Impossible 3]]''

* Death Dealers in ''[[Underworld]]''

* [[Ice Cube]] as James 'Desolation' Williams in ''[[Ghosts of Mars]]''

* [[Steven Seagal]] as Casey Ryback in ''[[Under Siege]]'' (fitted with sound supresser)

* The CIA Response Team in ''[[Quantum of Solace]]''

* A SEAL in ''[[The Rock]]''

* A Secret Service agent in ''[[The Sentinel]]''

* A thug in ''[[Crank: High Voltage]]'' (MP5K with PDW-style folding stock)

===Television===

* Cameron Phillips ([[Summer Glau]]) in ''[[Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]''

* Mike Pinnochio ([[D.B. Sweeney]]) in ''[[Harsh Realm]]''

===Video Games===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Mirror's Edge]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield]] || || || || 2003
|-
|}

===Anime===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| Claes || [[Gunslinger Girl]] || With side-folding stock || 2003 - 2004
|-
|}

== Heckler & Koch SP89 ==

[[Image:H&KSP89.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Heckler & Koch SP89 Pistol with factory 15-round magazine 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K-MP5KEarlyModel.jpg|thumb|right|300px|A "faux" Heckler & Koch MP5K - this is an original SP89 pistol converted to full auto fire by a Class III armorer. Giveaways are the lack of a paddle magazine release. This version was also used in movies between 1989 and the late 1990s when factory original MP5Ks were not available - 9x19mm]]

The SP89 is a semi-auto version of the MP5K & was banned from importation in 1993.

=== Film ===

* A vampire in ''[[Blade]]'' (Straight SP89 Version)

* A U.S. Navy SEAL in ''[[The Rock]]'' (Straight SP89 Version)

* [[Josh Brolin]] as Llewelyn Moss in ''[[No Country for Old Men]]'' (Straight SP89 Version)

* [[Dennis Hopper]] as Howard Payne in ''[[Speed]]'' ("faux" MP5K with nickel finish, MP5K foregrip, and converted to full auto)

* A SWAT Officer and [[Robert Patrick]] as the T-1000 in ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]'' ("faux" MP5K fitted with MP5K foregrip and converted to full auto)

* Thug in the Hotel shoot out in ''[[Barb Wire]]'' (Straight SP89 Version)

* [[Pamela Anderson]] as Barbara "Barb Wire" Kopetski in ''[[Barb Wire]]'' (done as a "faux" MP5K with nickel finish, MP5K foregrip, and converted to full auto)

* [[Dennis Burkley]] as Oatmeal in ''[[Beyond the Law]]'' (1992) ("faux" MP5K fitted with MP5K foregrip and converted to full auto)

=== Television ===

* [[John Leguizamo]] as Jake "Mr. Wolf" Mendez in ''[[The Kill Point]]'' (with two magazines "jungle-taped" together)

* Banning's henchmen in ''[[Code Name: Eternity]]'' (converted to fire full auto)

* Various villians in ''[[Cobra (TV Series)|Cobra]]''

* [[Sam Raimi]] as Bobby Terry in ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]''

 

==Heckler & Koch MP5/10 and MP5/40==
[[Image:Image-MP540.gif|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5/40 .40 S&W]]
[[Image:Heckler and Koch MP510.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5/10 with suppressor 10mm]]
=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[The Punisher]]||.40 cal Submachine Gun||w/ optional Beta-C drum magazine||||2005
|-
|[[Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear]]||||w/ optional silencer||||1999
|-
|[[Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising]]||||||||2004
|-
|[[Global Operations]]||||||||2002
|-
|}
 

==Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10==
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|right|400px|Special Weapons MP-10 9x19mm]]
[[Image:SP10-1-.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Special Weapons SP-10 9x19mm with Truglo red dot sight]]

=== Films ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| || U.S. Army Ranger || [[I Am Legend]] || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Grand Theft Auto IV]]||SW MP-10||||||2008
|-
|[[F.E.A.R]]||Sumak RPL||w/ holographic sight & retractable buttstock||||2006
|-
|}

 

==Heckler & Koch SMG==
[[Image:HK SMG 2.gif|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch SMG-2 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Smg1.jpg|thumb|right|400px]]
The Heckler & Koch SMG programme was for improving the MP5 but like its G11 it failed.Until now it has only been featured in Project IGI 2: Covert Strike.

====Video Games====
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Project IGI 2: Covert Strike]]||SMG 2||w/ suppressor||SMG II version||2003
|-
|}
 

==German Sport Guns GSG5 Semi Auto Carbine==
[[Image:GSG-05.jpg|thumb|right|550px|German Sport Guns GSG5 semi auto carbine with fake suppressor - 22.LR. This model as the 10 round magazine for states that restrict high capacity magazines. The factory magazines in fact, hold twenty two rounds of .22 long rifle.]]
German Sport Guns began importing the GSG5 Sporting Carbine into the U.S. in 2007. It is not a Heckler & Koch firearm, but is a .22 LR clone of the MP5. What makes it unique is that many parts are interchangeable with Airsoft MP5 parts, so many gun enthusiasts are putting on telescoping stocks, fake suppressors, tactical flash lights fore ends and rails on these .22 Carbines and pistols. According to ''American Rifleman'' gun reviewers the GSG5 holds 24 rounds in the magazine, not 22.

==Television==

* Seen used by a former S.A.S. commando in the video game challenge against Jason Bradbury in ''[[The Gadget Show]]'' (UK)

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Submachine Gun]]

Heckler & Koch MP5

2010-07-19T14:39:03Z

PunisherDave: /* Film */

==Specifications==

'''Type:''' Sub-machine gun

'''Caliber:''' 9x19mm Parabellum (MP5), .40 S&W (MP5/40), 10mm (MP5/10)

'''Capacity:''' 15, 30 round box magazines, 100 round Beta-C drum magazine

'''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi/Full-Auto (MP5A1, MP5A2, MP5A3, MP5K) & Safe/Semi/Burst/Full-Auto (MP5A4, MP5A5, MP5KA4)

----

'''The Heckler & Koch MP5 family of sub-machine guns is used by the following actors in the following movies, television series, anime, and video games:'''

== Heckler & Koch MP5A2 ==
[[Image:MP5.jpg‎|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9x19mm with early "slimline" handguard]]
[[Image:H&KMP5A2WideForearm.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9x19mm with "tropical" wide handguard]]
[[Image:2MP5A2.jpg‎|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight]]
[[Image:H&KMP5-N.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5-N 9x19mm, an A2 model with a Navy Trigger Group]]
[[Image:SWATMP5.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A2 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and Navy trigger group, used in ''[[S.W.A.T.]]'']]
The first MP5s looked very different than the MP5s that Movie and television viewers have become accustomed to. Since the early models were rarely (if ever) seen outside of Europe and not manufactured in the same numbers as the common variants (starting with the A2), this page begins with the MP5A2 model, since that is the earliest model MP5 that would be seen in World Cinema.

Also many MP5A2s (and A3s) were retrofitted with ambidextrous Navy lower trigger groups (both in the real world and Movie armories) and many times these MP5N models are confused with the newer factory issued MP5A4s and MP5A5s. The MP5-N (Navy) has a unique 3 lug and threaded barrel unique to the N variant versus four firing positions (which indicates it is a factory A4 or A5 variant).

=== Film ===

* "Company Men", [[Angelina Jolie]] as Jane Smith, and [[Brad Pitt]] as John Smith in ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]''

* [[Samuel L. Jackson]] as Sergeant Dan "Hondo" Harrelson, [[Colin Farrell]] as Officer Jim Street, [[Michelle Rodriguez]] as Officer Chris Sánchez, [[LL Cool J]] as Officer Deacon "Deke" Kay, and [[Brian Van Holt]] as Officer Michael Boxer in ''[[S.W.A.T.]]'' (fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Miami P.D. SWAT in ''[[Bad Boys II]]'' (fitted with Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Sheriff's Department SWAT officers in ''[[Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines]]'' (fitted with Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight and navy trigger group)

* The SWAT team in ''[[Biggles: Adventures in Time]]'' (with slimline handguards and straight magazines)

* Serbian soldier named Goran in ''[[Savior]]''

* N.Y.P.D. SWAT members in ''[[The Siege]]''

* British police and a Hostage Rescue Team in ''[[Patriot Games]]'' (with slimline handguards)

* FBI Agents in ''[[Rush Hour]]''

* SWAT officers in ''[[The Negotiator]]''

* ''[[Sniper 2]]''

* Interpol Agents in ''[[Lord of War]]''

* Agent Sever ([[Lucy Liu]]) in ''[[Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever]]''

* Agent Jeremiah Ecks ([[Antonio Banderas]]) in ''[[Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever]]''

* One of Yero's Henchmen in ''[[Miami Vice (2006)]]''

* L.A.P.D. SWAT in ''[[Dragon Wars: D-War]]'' (fitted with Surefire dedicated fore end weapon lights)

* FBI HRT members in ''[[The Cell]]''

* Colonel Jorgensen ([[John Forgeham]]) in ''[[Sheena]]''

* Soldiers in ''[[Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend]]''

=== Television ===

* ''[[Seven Days]]''

* Miami P.D. SWAT in ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' (with scopes and Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Las Vegas P.D. SWAT in ''[[CSI: Crime Scene Investigation]]'' (fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* N.Y.P.D. SWAT in ''[[CSI: NY]]'' (episode: "Hostage", fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Terrorists in ''[[Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman]]'' (fixed with zoomable sights and flashlight)

* SWAT/SRT team members in ''[[Millennium]]''

* SWAT/HRT in [[Criminal Minds]].

* ''[[Bugs]]'' (episode "Out Of The Hive")

* Canadian Police SRT Officer in ''[[Degrassi]]'' (episode: "Danger Zone")

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Enter the Matrix]] || || || With and without weaponlight || 2003
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker]] || || || || 2010
|-
|}

=== Anime ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| I.S.S.P. SWAT || [[Cowboy Bebop the Movie: Knockin' on Heaven's Door]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights || 2001
|-
| Bank Robbers || [[Case Closed]] || MP5NA2 || 2010
|-
| Various || [[Jyu-oh-sei]] || MP5NA2 || 2006
|-
| Missou's bodyguards || [[Stigma of the Wind]] |||| 2007
|-
|}

== Heckler & Koch MP5A3 ==
[[Image:HK MP5.JPG|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with original "slimline" handguard and straight "waffle"-style magazine - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&KMP5A3slimforearm.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with original "slimline" forearm - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5A3.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 with "tropical" (wide) forearm - 9x19mm with stock extended]]
[[Image:MP5A3 StockCollapsed.jpg‎|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP002M-1.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight]]
[[Image:Hk-mp5n.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Navy trigger group]]
[[Image:HKmp5A3.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9x19mm with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlight and safe-semi-two round burst trigger group]]

''Note: Some MP5A3s featured in films of the 1980's-90's like ''[[Die Hard]]'', ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'', ''[[Speed]]'', and ''[[Air Force One]]'', are actually "chopped and converted" HK94 Carbines.''

=== Film ===
* F.B.I. Hostage Rescue Team in ''[[Hannibal]]'' (2001)

* ''[[The Class of 1999]]''

* Terrorists and [[Bruce Willis]] as Detective John McClaine in ''[[Die Hard]]'' (Chopped and Converted HK94s.)

* [[Mitchell Ryan]] as General Peter McAllister and [[Mel Gibson]] as Detective Martin Riggs in ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' (also L.A.P.D. SWAT in a deleted scene) (Chopped and Converted HK94s.)

* Ramon Cota's men in ''[[Delta Force 2: The Colombian Connection]]''
* [[Ron Eldard]] as Mike Durant in ''[[Black Hawk Down]]''

* [[Ken Takakura]] as Inspector Masahiro in ''[[Black Rain]]''

* Rudd's henchmen, [[Danny Glover]] as Detective Roger Murtaugh and [[Mel Gibson]] as Detective Martin Riggs in ''[[Lethal Weapon 2]]'' (seen with and without brass catchers)

* Thugs in ''[[Licence To Kill]]''

* [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]] as Jericho Cane in ''[[End of Days]]'' (fitted with [[M203 grenade launcher]])

* Terrorists, [[William Sadler]] as Colonel Stuart, and [[Bruce Willis]] as Lt. John McClane in ''[[Die Hard 2]]'' (with two magazines taped together 'jungle style')

* Sweepers in ''[[Equilibrium]]''.

* Several Mercenaries in ''[[Half Past Dead]]'' modified with lasers.

* Miami P.D. SWAT members in ''[[Transporter 2]]''

* One of the Merovingian's henchmen in ''[[The Matrix Reloaded]]''

* Serbian soldiers in ''[[Behind Enemy Lines]]''

* N.Y.P.D. SWAT in ''[[16 Blocks]]'' (fitted with Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights, with SEF and Navy trigger groups)

* Vampire Death Dealers and Lycans in ''[[Underworld]]'' (the latter having Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Escobedo's men and [[Raymond Cruz]] as Domingo Chavez in ''[[Clear and Present Danger]]'' (Cruz using one fitted with a suppressor)

* [[Michael Biehn]] as Commander Anderson,in ''[[The Rock]]''
* SAS trainers in ''[[The Living Daylights]]''

* [[Sean Patrick Flanery]] as Connor MacManus in ''[[The Boondock Saints]]''

* [[Ti Lung]] as Sung Tse-Ho in ''[[A Better Tomorrow]]''

* [[Chow Yun-Fat]] as Inspector Tequila Yuen, [[Tony Leung]] as Alan, Hong Kong SDU Team, and Johnny Wong's Thugs in ''[[Hard Boiled]]''

* N.Y.P.D. SWAT officers in ''[[Light It Up]]'' (fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights, laser pointers, and scopes)

* Guards, [[Vinnie Jones]] as Ewan McStarley, and [[Steve Austin]] as Jack Conrad in ''[[The Condemned]]''

* N.Y.P.D. and FBI SWAT in ''[[Siege, The|The Siege]]'' (the latter fitted with laser pointers and red dot sights)

* Terrorists dressed as Toronto ERT Operatives in ''[[The Sentinel]]''

* U.S. military personnel in ''[[Independence Day]]''

* [[Timothy Olyphant]] as Agent 47 in ''[[Hitman]]'' (fitted with RIS handguards)

* Biker gang members and [[Vin Diesel]] as Toorop in ''[[Babylon A.D.]]'' (fitted with RIS handguards)

* FBI SWAT Team members in ''[[Along Came a Spider]]''

* [[Kevin Pollack]] as Hockney, [[Stephen Baldwin]] as McManus and [[Kevin Spacey]] as Verbal Kint in ''[[The Usual Suspects]]''

* U.S. Secret Service agents in ''[[X2: X-Men United]]'' (fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* Perret's guards in ''[[Tango & Cash]]''

* [[Keanu Reeves]] as Jack Traven in ''[[Speed]]''

* A shop owner in ''[[Strange Days]]''

* Prince Otwani and his soldiers in ''[[Sheena]]''

* [[Tom Sizemore]] as Lieutenant Underhill and [[Thomas Jane]] as Henry in ''[[Dreamcatcher]]''

* A federal agent in ''[[X-Men]]'' (with Navy trigger group)

=== Television ===

* U.S. military personnel in ''[[Stargate SG-1]]''

* CO-19 members in ''[[Doctor Who (New series)|Doctor Who]]''

* SAS members in ''[[Bottom]]'' (episode: "Carnival")

* Gang members in ''[[CSI: Crime Scene Investigation]]'' (episode: "Poppin' Tags")

* Pest exterminators in ''[[Family Guy]]'' (fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* L.A.P.D. SWAT in ''[[Seven Days]]'' (episode "Doppleganger", fitted with Surefire 628 dedicated forend weaponlights)

* [[Aaron James Cash]] as the Terminator in ''[[Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]'' (fitted with RIS rails and handguards)

* ''[[Situation Critical]]''

* Used by Sam Hanna ([[L.L. Cool J]]) in the premiere of ''[[NCIS Los Angeles]]'' to kill a dirty LAPD detective
* Used by several people in [[Alarm für cobra 11]]

=== Anime ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| Special Forces || [[Kochikame]] || With & Without Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights || 1996 - 2005
|-
| Narcotics Squad members || [[Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights, 15-round magazines and no shoulder stocks || 2002 - 2003
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Hitman: Codename 47]] || || || || 2000
|-
| [[Kane and Lynch: Dead Men]] || || || With & without Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight || 2007
|-
| [[007: Agent Under Fire]] || "Koffer & Stock KS7" || || || 2001
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || || With Navy trigger group || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || || With Navy trigger group || 2005
|-
| [[Grand Theft Auto: Vice City]] || || || || 2002
|-
| [[Shadow the Hedgehog]] || || || With Navy trigger group || 2005
|-
| [[Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas]] || || || || 2005
|-
| [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] || || || || 2003
|-
| [[Resident Evil 5]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[SWAT 4]] || || || || 2005
|-
| [[Half-Life]] || || || With mounted grenade launcher || 1998
|-
|}
 

== Heckler & Koch MP5A4 ==
[[Image:H&KMP5A4.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5A4 9x19mm - The A4 has an additional option on the selector for '3 round burst' thus possessing four fire options - Safe, Semi Auto, 3 round burst and full auto.]]

=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| || SWAT officers || [[Crank]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight || 2006
|-
| || Japanese counter-terrorism soldiers || [[Battle Royale II: Requiem]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight || 2003
|-
|}

=== Television ===

* ''[[The Unit]]''

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2]] || || || With optional M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || || 2008
|-
|}

===Anime===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|Media Betterment Committee tactical operators|| [[Library War]] || With & Without Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights || 2008
|-
|}

== Heckler & Koch MP5A5 ==
[[Image:H&KMP5A5.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler and Koch MP5A5 9x19mm - Same as the MP5A4 but with a telescoping stock. Both the A4 & A5 variants have the additional option for '3 round burst' on the selector.]]

=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| || SWAT officers || [[Adulthood]] || || 2008
|-
| || U.S. Navy SEALs || [[Rock, The|The Rock]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight || 1996
|-
| || Anarchy 99 Henchmen || [[XXX]] || With RIS foregrips & Beta-C drum magazines || 2002
|-
| || N.Y.P.D SWAT || [[16 Blocks]] || With Surefire dedicated forend weaponlights || 2006
|-
| || Guerrilla || [[Tropic Thunder]] || || 2008
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas]] || "MP5N" || || With optional Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight, M68 Aimpoint red dot & ACOG scopes || 2006
|-
| [[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]] || "MP5N" || || With optional Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight, silencer, M68 Aimpoint red dot & ACOG scopes || 2008
|-
| [[Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield]] || || w/ ACOGs, suppressors and high-capacity magazines || || 2003
|-
|-
| [[Counter Strike]] ||"KM Submachine Gun" || || || 2000
|-
| [[Counter Strike: Condition Zero]] ||"KM Submachine Gun" || || || 2003
|-
| [[Counter Strike: Source]] ||"KM Submachine Gun" || || || 2004
|-
| [[Black]] || || || || 2006
|-
| [[Counter-Strike Online]] || "KM Submachine Gun" || With White Tiger doll|||| 2007
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || With RIS foregrip and MP5K-PDW folding stock || 2008
|-
| [[Hitman: Contracts]] || || || || 2004
|-
| [[Parasite Eve II]] || || || With weaponlight || 1999
|-
| [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]] || || || || 2007
|-
| [[SOCOM: Confrontation]] || "HK5" || || || 2008
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3]] || MK5 || || || 2010
|-
| [[Left 4 Dead 2]] || H&K MP5 || w/ the tactical flashlight and optional laser sight 50 round || German Version only || 2009
|-
|}

=== Anime ===

* GUN Agents in ''[[Sonic X]]''
 

== Heckler & Koch MP5SD ==
[[Image:MP5SD3.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD3 9x19mm with S-E-F trigger group and Stock Extended.]]
[[Image:H&KMP5SD6.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5SD6 9x19mm with Stock Extended and 3-round trigger group. What is unusual is that most Airsoft versions of this gun don't have the fourth (3 rd burst) position whereas the real gun does.]]
=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Will Smith]] || Det. Mike Lowrey || [[Bad Boys II]] || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope and Surefire Universal weaponlight || 2003
|-
| [[Antoni Corone]] || DEA Agent Tony Dodd || [[Bad Boys II]] || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope & Surefire Universal weaponlight || 2003
|-
| || Miami P.D. SWAT || [[Bad Boys II]] || With Surefire Universal weaponlight || 2003
|-
| [[Kim Bodina]] || Harald || [[In China They Eat Dogs]] || || 1999
|-
| || Serbian gangsters || [[In China They Eat Dogs]] || || 1999
|-
| [[Kris Kristofferson]] || Whistler || [[Blade]] || || 1998
|-
| || Mexican PJF Agents || [[A Man Apart]] || || 2003
|-
| || Simulated terrorists || [[Die Another Day]] || || 2002
|-
| || Security Forces personnel || [[One, The|The One]] || With custom suppressor, scope, and [[Heckler & Koch G36|G36]]-style stock || 2001
|-
| || SFPD SWAT officers || [[Ticker]] || || 2001
|-
| [[Charlie Sheen]] || Lt. Dale Hawkins || [[Navy SEALs]] || || 1990
|-
| [[Dennis Haysbert]] || Graham || [[Navy SEALs]] || || 1990
|-
| [[Michael Biehn]] || Lt. James Curran || [[Navy SEALs]] || || 1990
|-
|}

=== Television ===

* Heroin Dealer's Thugs in ''[[Burn Notice]]'' - Season 1, Episode 11: ''Loose Ends, Part 1'', fitted with Art I scopes.

* Alliance soldiers during boarding of Firefly in ''[[Firefly]]'' - Season 1, Episode 2 ''Bushwhacked''. Also Alliance guard in interrogation room.

=== Video games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || || || || 2009
|-
| [[007: The World Is Not Enough]] || "Deutsche M9S" || || With laser pointer and scope || 2000
|-
| [[Operation Flashpoint]] || || || || 2001
|-
| [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]] || || || || 2007
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Code of Honor 2: Conspiracy Island]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Project I.G.I]] || || || || 2000
|-
| [[Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories]] || || || || 2006
|-
| [[Far Cry 2]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2]] || || || With optional M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
| [[Hitman 2: Silent Assassin]] || "SMG-SD6" || || || 2002
|-
| [[Shadow Force: Razor Unit]] || "Mp-5S" || || || 2002
|-
| [[SOCOM: Confrontation]] || "HK5 SD" || || || 2008
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3]] || "HK5" || || || 2010
|-
| [[Mercenaries 2: World in Flames]]|||||Red painter's tape on the magazine||||2008
|-
| [[America's Army]] || || || Multiplayer mode only, non-playable || 2002
|-
| [[Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield]] || "MP5SD5" || || With optional ACOG scope and high-capacity magazine || 2003
|-
|}

===Anime===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|Media Betterment Committee tactical operators|| [[Library War]] || MP5SD5 || 2008
|-
|}

== Heckler & Koch HK94==
[[Image:HK94.jpg|thumb|400px|right|Heckler & Koch HK94A3 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:HK 94A3.jpg|thumb|400px|right|Heckler & Koch HK94A2 with Full Stock - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K94Conversion.jpg‎|thumb|400px|right|The "Fake MP5", the Heckler & Koch HK94A3 Converted to full auto fire, shortened barrel and added third firing position on trigger pack - 9x19mm. This version was used in many films during the 1980s and 1990s.]]
[[Image:HK_94A2chopped.jpg|thumb|400px|right|The "Fake MP5", the Heckler & Koch HK94A2 Converted to full auto fire, shortened barrel and added third firing position on trigger pack - 9x19mm. This version was used in many films during the 1980s and 1990s.]]

The Heckler & Koch HK94 was the civilian semiautomatic version of the famous MP5 Submachine gun (with the 'legal' 16" carbine barrel). It was imported in the late 1970s to late 1980s (its importation banned in 1989 by the infamous ATF re-interpretation of the "Sporting Clause" of GCA-68. In May 1989 the ATF determined that the imported 'assault weapons' were not suitable for sporting purposes as put forth by the older GCA 68.), however many more HK94s were imported into the country than factory original MP5s during that time period. In the early 1980s, it was cheaper to convert the plentiful and less expensive semiauto gun and register it as a Title II weapon. A large portion of the full auto MP5s coming into the country were slated for Law Enforcement and Military sales.

''Note: In some films of the 1980's and 1990's, the HK94 is "chopped and converted", to look like the MP5A3.''

===Film===

* Terrorists and [[Bruce Willis]] as Detective John McClane in ''[[Die Hard]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble MP5A3s.)
* Terrorists and [[Harrison Ford]] as President James Marshall in ''[[Air Force One]]'' (Chopped and Converted HK94s.)
* [[Mitchell Ryan]] as General Peter McAllister and [[Mel Gibson]] as Detective Martin Riggs in ''[[Lethal Weapon]]'' (also LAPD SWAT in a deleted scene) (Chopped and Converted to look like MP5A3s.)

* Militia gang member in ''[[Pink Cadillac]]''

* Mr Big ([[Joe Pesci]])'s Troopers in ''[[Moonwalker]]'' (Modified to look futuristic with an ammo counter)
* Several members of the Commando team in ''[[Predator]]'' (Chopped and Converted to look like MP5A3s)
* ''[[Police Academy 5]]''
* [[Sean Connery]] as John Mason, and Navy SEALs in ''[[The Rock]]'' (some fitted with tactical flashlights.) (Chopped and Converted HK94s)
* ''[[Beverly Hills Cop II]]''

* Roddy Piper as Nada in ''[[They Live]]''

* [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]] as Richards in ''[[The Running Man]]''
* [[Kurt Russell]] as Colonel Jack O'Neil and the USAF Spec-Ops team in ''[[Stargate]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble MP5A2 and MP5A3s) (Some fitted with tactical flashlites or scopes)
* [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]] as Mark Kaminsky in ''[[Raw Deal]]''
* SWAT Officers in ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble MP5A2s and MP5A3s.)
* ''[[Commando]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble the MP5A3)
* Seen being worked on in the gunstore in ''[[Jumanji]]''
* Chang Sing gang member in ''[[Big Trouble in Little China]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble MP5A3)
* SWAT Officers in ''[[Cobra]]''
* [[Mickey Jones]] as Chub Luke in ''[[Extreme Prejudice]]'' (Chopped and Converted to resemble MP5A3)
===Television===

* Used by LAPD SWAT team members (with surefire lights) on ''[[Moonlight]]'' (2007) (HK94 Chopped & Converted)

* Used by Detective Matthew Sikes ([[Gary Graham]]) and Detective George Francisco ([[Eric Pierpoint]]) in ''[[Alien Nation - The Series]]'' (Full length HK94 Carbine)

* ''[[The A-Team]]''

* Seen in the hands of Randall Flagg's henchmen in Las Vegas in ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]''

* Used by one of Ari's terrorists in ''[[Navy NCIS: Naval Criminal Investigative Service]]'' Season 2, Episode 23: Twilight

===Anime===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| || [[Kochikame, The UFO Movie]] || ||
|-
|}
 

== Heckler & Koch MP5K ==
Note: ''Some MP5Ks seen in film are modified SP89s that are fitted with a forward handgrip and converted to full auto.''

[[Image:MP5K-SEF.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Heckler & Koch MP5K - version with SEF Plastic Trigger Pack - 9x19mm. This is a very well worn Motion picture weapon]]
[[Image:MP5KA3.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Heckler & Koch MP5KN 9x19mm - updated with the Navy Trigger Group. The Navy trigger group dates to 1985, the MP5K-PDW to 1991. The MP5K is available in the newer MP5KN, MP5KA4, and MP5KA5 configurations, which all have the ambidextrous trigger group. Another 'well used' actual movie blank firing gun.]]
[[Image:MP5KA4.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Heckler & Koch MP5KA4 (3 round burst added) with 15-round magazine - 9x19mm]]
=== Film ===

* [[Keanu Reeves]] as Neo in ''[[The Matrix]]''

* [[Sean Bean]] as Spence in ''[[Ronin]]''

* ''Company Men'', [[Brad Pitt]] as John Smith, and [[Angelina Jolie]] as Jane Smith in ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]

* [[Chow Yun-Fat]] as Ah Jong and [[Danny Lee]] as Li Ying in ''[[The Killer]]''

* [[Laurence Fishburne]] as Morpheus in ''[[The Matrix Revolutions]]'' (with foregrips removed, exposing barrels)

* Arjen Rudd ([[Joss Ackland]])'s henchmen in ''[[Lethal Weapon 2]]''

* Gangbanger in ''[[Lethal Weapon 3]]''

* [[Samuel L. Jackson]] as Zeus Carver, [[Jeremy Irons]] as Simon Gruber, Simon's men, and [[Bruce Willis]] as Lt. John McClane in ''[[Die Hard with a Vengeance]]''

* Johnny Wong's Thugs and Hong Kong SDU Team in ''[[Hard Boiled]]''

* Gang member disguised as a hobo in ''[[S.W.A.T.]]''

* A Terrorist, U.S. Special Forces Operators, and [[Harrison Ford]] as President James Marshall in ''[[Air Force One]]'' (The Special Forces' fitted with suppressors.)

* Terrorists in ''[[Die Hard 2]]'' (with two magazines taped together 'jungle style'.)

* [[Liam Neeson]] as Bryan Mills in ''[[Taken]]''

* [[Michelle Rodriguez]] as Rain Ocampo in ''[[Resident Evil]]''

* [[Milla Jovovich]] as Alice in ''[[Resident Evil: Apocalypse]]''

* [[Steven Seagal]] as Chief Casey Ryback, and [[Erika Eleniak]] as Jordan Tate in ''[[Under Siege]]''

* Gangsters and [[Martin Lawrence]] as Detective Marcus Burnett in ''[[Bad Boys]]''

* Renard's men and [[Robbie Coltrane]] as Valentin Zukovsky in ''[[The World Is Not Enough]]''

* One of the Merovingian's henchmen in ''[[The Matrix Reloaded]]''

* One of Johnny Tapia's cronies in ''[[Bad Boys II]]''

* Gustav Graves' henchmen in ''[[Die Another Day]]'' (with and without suppressors, including at least one with the foregrip removed exposing the barrel)

* Vampire Death Dealers in ''[[Underworld]]''

* [[Olek Krupa]] as Miroslav Lokar in ''[[Behind Enemy Lines]]''

* [[Jim Caviezel]] as Carroll Oerstadt in ''[[Deja Vu]]

* [[Michael Jai White]] as Al Simmons in ''[[Spawn]]'' (fitted with suppressor in one scene)

* Vampires in ''[[Blade]]''

* [[Ethan Hawke]] as Interpol Agent Jack Valentine in ''[[Lord of War]]''

* [[Clive Owen]] as Mr. Smith in ''[[Shoot 'Em Up]]''

* Mansion guards in ''[[True Lies]]''

* Secret Service in ''[[The Sentinel]]''

* Chicago P.D. SWAT officers in ''[[I, Robot]]''

* Israeli bodyguards in ''[[Lucky Number Slevin]]''

* [[Jake Busey]] as Krug in ''[[Enemy of the State]]''

* Colombian terrorists, U.S. counter-terrorist operatives, [[Sean Astin]] as William "Billy" Tepper, and [[Michael Champion]] as Jack Thorpe in ''[[Toy Soldiers]]''

* [[Mark Wahlberg]] as Max Payne and [[Mila Kunis]] as Mona Sax in ''[[Max Payne (2008)|Max Payne]]''

* ''[[Babylon A.D.]]''

* Quan and Lopez in ''[[Tango & Cash]]''

* [[Justin Timberlake]] as Joshua Pollack in ''[[Edison]]''

* Sweepers in ''[[Equilibrium]]''.

* ''[[Delta Force 2: The Colombian Connection]]''

* ''[[The Living Daylights]]''(Heavily modified)

* [[Paul Bettany]] as Michael in ''[[Legion]]''

* [[Ray Stevenson]] as Frank Castle/ The Punisher in''[[Punisher War Zone]]''

=== Television ===

* Pest exterminators in ''[[Family Guy]]''

* ''[[Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]''

* Bank robbers in ''[[CSI: Crime Scene Investigation]]'' (episode: "Inside the Box")

* Secret Service agents in seasons 2, 5, and 7 of ''[[24]]''

=== Anime ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| Faye Valentine || [[Cowboy Bebop]] || With 15-round magazine || 1998 - 1999
|-
| Faye Valentine || [[Cowboy Bebop the Movie: Knockin' on Heaven's Door]] || || 2001
|-
| Francesco || [[Noir]] || || 2001
|-
| || [[Asobi ni Ikuyo!]] || ||2010
|}

=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[GoldenEye 007]]||D5K Deutsche||Available with and without suppressor||||1997
|-
|[[007: Nightfire]]||Deutsche M9K||w/ 15-round magazine and removable suppressor||||2002
|-
|[[Stranglehold]]||||||||2007
|-
|[[007: Everything or Nothing]]||||||||2003
|-
|[[Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories]]||||w/ extended barrel and modified handgrip||||2005
|-
|[[Saints Row 2]]||SKR-9 Threat||w/ straight 40 round magazine||||2008
|-
|[[The Conduit]]||||||||2009
|-
|[[Timesplitters: Future Perfect]]||||||||2005
|-
|[[Modern Warfare 2]]||||||Akimbo||2009
|-
|}

== Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW ==
[[Image:MP5K-PDWEarly.jpg‎|thumb|right|400px|MP5K 9x19mm with the PDW-style folding stock attached, commonly used in films to emulate the PDW. The real MP5K-PDW, illustrated below, is distinctive in having the longer barrel and the newer trigger group.]]
[[Image:MP5K-PDW.jpg|thumb|right|400px|MP5K-PDW 9x19mm with extended barrel (with 3 lugs & folding stock]]
The PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) was an upgrade to the MP5K, adding a synthetic folding stock to create a stable firing platform for more accurate fire, and extended the barrel and put on three lugs to quick attach flash hiders or suppressors.
=== Film ===

* [[Pierce Brosnan]] as James Bond, and Carver's henchmen including [[Götz Otto]] as Richard Stamper in ''[[Tomorrow Never Dies]]'' (with side-folding stock)

* ''[[The Kingdom]]'' (with side-folding stocks)

* [[Tom Cruise]] as Ethan Hunt in ''[[Mission: Impossible 3]]''

* Death Dealers in ''[[Underworld]]''

* [[Ice Cube]] as James 'Desolation' Williams in ''[[Ghosts of Mars]]''

* [[Steven Seagal]] as Casey Ryback in ''[[Under Siege]]'' (fitted with sound supresser)

* The CIA Response Team in ''[[Quantum of Solace]]''

* A SEAL in ''[[The Rock]]''

* A Secret Service agent in ''[[The Sentinel]]''

* A thug in ''[[Crank: High Voltage]]'' (MP5K with PDW-style folding stock)

===Television===

* Cameron Phillips ([[Summer Glau]]) in ''[[Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]''

* Mike Pinnochio ([[D.B. Sweeney]]) in ''[[Harsh Realm]]''

===Video Games===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Mirror's Edge]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield]] || || || || 2003
|-
|}

===Anime===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="275"|'''Film Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
| Claes || [[Gunslinger Girl]] || With side-folding stock || 2003 - 2004
|-
|}

== Heckler & Koch SP89 ==

[[Image:H&KSP89.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Heckler & Koch SP89 Pistol with factory 15-round magazine 9x19mm]]
[[Image:H&K-MP5KEarlyModel.jpg|thumb|right|300px|A "faux" Heckler & Koch MP5K - this is an original SP89 pistol converted to full auto fire by a Class III armorer. Giveaways are the lack of a paddle magazine release. This version was also used in movies between 1989 and the late 1990s when factory original MP5Ks were not available - 9x19mm]]

The SP89 is a semi-auto version of the MP5K & was banned from importation in 1993.

=== Film ===

* A vampire in ''[[Blade]]'' (Straight SP89 Version)

* A U.S. Navy SEAL in ''[[The Rock]]'' (Straight SP89 Version)

* [[Josh Brolin]] as Llewelyn Moss in ''[[No Country for Old Men]]'' (Straight SP89 Version)

* [[Dennis Hopper]] as Howard Payne in ''[[Speed]]'' ("faux" MP5K with nickel finish, MP5K foregrip, and converted to full auto)

* A SWAT Officer and [[Robert Patrick]] as the T-1000 in ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]'' ("faux" MP5K fitted with MP5K foregrip and converted to full auto)

* Thug in the Hotel shoot out in ''[[Barb Wire]]'' (Straight SP89 Version)

* [[Pamela Anderson]] as Barbara "Barb Wire" Kopetski in ''[[Barb Wire]]'' (done as a "faux" MP5K with nickel finish, MP5K foregrip, and converted to full auto)

* [[Dennis Burkley]] as Oatmeal in ''[[Beyond the Law]]'' (1992) ("faux" MP5K fitted with MP5K foregrip and converted to full auto)

=== Television ===

* [[John Leguizamo]] as Jake "Mr. Wolf" Mendez in ''[[The Kill Point]]'' (with two magazines "jungle-taped" together)

* Banning's henchmen in ''[[Code Name: Eternity]]'' (converted to fire full auto)

* Various villians in ''[[Cobra (TV Series)|Cobra]]''

* [[Sam Raimi]] as Bobby Terry in ''[[Stand, The|The Stand]]''

 

==Heckler & Koch MP5/10 and MP5/40==
[[Image:Image-MP540.gif|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5/40 .40 S&W]]
[[Image:Heckler and Koch MP510.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch MP5/10 with suppressor 10mm]]
=== Video Games ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[The Punisher]]||.40 cal Submachine Gun||w/ optional Beta-C drum magazine||||2005
|-
|[[Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear]]||||w/ optional silencer||||1999
|-
|[[Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising]]||||||||2004
|-
|[[Global Operations]]||||||||2002
|-
|}
 

==Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10==
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|right|400px|Special Weapons MP-10 9x19mm]]
[[Image:SP10-1-.jpg|thumb|right|400px|Special Weapons SP-10 9x19mm with Truglo red dot sight]]

=== Films ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| || U.S. Army Ranger || [[I Am Legend]] || With M68 Aimpoint red dot scope || 2007
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Grand Theft Auto IV]]||SW MP-10||||||2008
|-
|[[F.E.A.R]]||Sumak RPL||w/ holographic sight & retractable buttstock||||2006
|-
|}

 

==Heckler & Koch SMG==
[[Image:HK SMG 2.gif|thumb|right|400px|Heckler & Koch SMG-2 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Smg1.jpg|thumb|right|400px]]
The Heckler & Koch SMG programme was for improving the MP5 but like its G11 it failed.Until now it has only been featured in Project IGI 2: Covert Strike.

====Video Games====
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|[[Project IGI 2: Covert Strike]]||SMG 2||w/ suppressor||SMG II version||2003
|-
|}
 

==German Sport Guns GSG5 Semi Auto Carbine==
[[Image:GSG-05.jpg|thumb|right|550px|German Sport Guns GSG5 semi auto carbine with fake suppressor - 22.LR. This model as the 10 round magazine for states that restrict high capacity magazines. The factory magazines in fact, hold twenty two rounds of .22 long rifle.]]
German Sport Guns began importing the GSG5 Sporting Carbine into the U.S. in 2007. It is not a Heckler & Koch firearm, but is a .22 LR clone of the MP5. What makes it unique is that many parts are interchangeable with Airsoft MP5 parts, so many gun enthusiasts are putting on telescoping stocks, fake suppressors, tactical flash lights fore ends and rails on these .22 Carbines and pistols. According to ''American Rifleman'' gun reviewers the GSG5 holds 24 rounds in the magazine, not 22.

==Television==

* Seen used by a former S.A.S. commando in the video game challenge against Jason Bradbury in ''[[The Gadget Show]]'' (UK)

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Submachine Gun]]

Star Model B

2010-07-18T18:22:42Z

PunisherDave: /* Films */

'''The ''Star Model B'' pistol as been seen used by the following actors in the following movies, television, anime, and videogames.'''

[[Image:StarPistolB.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Star Model B Pistol, blued finish - 9mm. This is a screen used Star Model B from the 1987 film ''[[The Untouchables]]''.]]
[[Image:StarBNickelPulpFiction.jpg‎|thumb|right|350px|Star Model B Pistol with a custom bright nickel plated finish and pearl grips - 9mm. This is a screen used Star Model B from the film ''[[Pulp Fiction]]''.]]
[[Image:StarBUntouchablesScreenGun.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Blued Star Model B - 9mm pistol from the movie ''[[The Untouchables (1987)]]''. This one is a screen used and fired handgun in the movie and was used by Kevin Costner on screen. ]]

This Spanish Pistol, known overseas as the ''Star Modelo B'', appears in many Hollywood movies as a substitute for the Govt. Model 1911, since it fired the hotter and more reliable 9mm blanks. Also in the older days of cinema, armorers had trouble getting .45 ACP blanks to cycle in pistols, so 9mm was substituted whenever possible. With newer powders and blank conversion techniques, most problems with the .45 ACP pistols have been solved.

'''The Spanish Star Model B can be seen in:'''

==Films==

* ''[[The Sand Pebbles]]''

* ''[[The Wild Bunch]]''

* ''[[The Getaway]]''

* [[Samuel L. Jackson]] as Jules in ''[[Pulp Fiction]]'' (Nickel Plated version)

* [[Ben Johnson]] as Melvin Purvis in ''[[Dillinger]]'' (Nickel Plated version)

* [[Warren Oates]] as John Dillinger in ''[[Dillinger]]''

* [[Kevin Costner]] as Eliott Ness and [[Billy Drago]] as Frank Nitti in ''[[The Untouchables]]'' (Drago's was Nickel plated)

* [[Lincoln Kilpatrick]] as Zachary in ''[[The Omega Man]]''

* [[Ray Walston]] as Edgar Whiney in ''[[Silver Streak]]''

* A Czech soldier in ''[[The Living Daylights ]]''

* ''[[McQ]]''

* Corrupt detective in ''[[Death Wish 5]]''
* Frank Castle/ The Punisher in ''[[The Punisher (1989)]]''

==Television==

* [[Alan Alda]] as Hawkeye Pierce in ''[[M*A*S*H*]]''

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Pistol]]

Talk:Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising

2010-07-14T14:55:47Z

PunisherDave:

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

2010-07-02T21:19:11Z

PunisherDave:

Note: This talk page is for discussion related to the '''article'''. Do not use it to argue about how H&K pwnz Colt, it is safe to say nobody cares.
<big>TO ARCHIVE</big>
__TOC__

==Computer thingy==
I know not the right place to ask but I'm going mad whats the thing your characters wears around their arms like a gps module or something I have seen it in documentaries some soldier even had a similar one mounted on a G36 stock so its not fictional anyone know whats its called?

Answer: its a garmin gps unit. https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=257&ra=true#

==KNIFE==
http://www.coldsteel.com/gitanto.html this is Soaps Knife in the end.

Well I believe the knife that Soap used at the end is the "Boker Plus Tactical Tanto Fixed", as this knife has been reported to be quite recently issued to the Armed Forces.

Here is a picture of the knife.[[Image:http://www.heinnie.com/uploads/images_products_large/3158.jpg]]

:Your picture doesn't work. Beyond that, this game has nothing to do with what is actually issued to armed forces(Russians with the AUG? Brazilians with the F2000?) so that's not really evidence tbh... [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 22:03, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==USP==
Wouldn't the USP be a USP teactical. The tacticals have threaded barrels as present on the in game USPs. Or are they some kind of hybrid because they don't use the tactical sights?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

The USP in game is a normal USP .45, the only difference is the threaded barrel. The Tactical has a bunch of other differences including the sights. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:47, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

That's my point. Since it has both the characteristics of a tactical and a normal USP would it be a hybrid?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Maybe, let's call it a USP .45 Custom then. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:13, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Now that I take a closer look at it, the slide has sights that look more like the HK45 than the USP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:52, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

:You could put different sights on the USP [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Yes but this USP has a threaded barrel so... Aw crap. If we could see the slide we could just say it was a tactical or a USP but it's just some crazy ass combo USP.

Edit*
Nvm I just popped in the game. On the side it said USP without tactical so it is a USP with a threaded barrel.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

==Archive?==
I think it's getting to be time to archive this talk page and start fresh, considering it's 166 kb long? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:59, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

==FAMAS ironsights==
I have identified the ironsights used on the FAMAS in-game. They are folding rail-mounted BUIS from Midwest Industries. Interestingly, they are also the standard sights that come with the RobArms XCR (which I really wish was in more games).

I own a FAMAS. those are not the correct iron sights. [SargeOverkill]]

They put those sights there because the FAMAS' original notch and post sights, IMO, suck, and because it gives them a rail to mount the other sights on to. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:05, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

==ACR==
Since it's the military version in-game, shouldn't it be referred to as the '''Remington''' ACR? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:01, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
:Oh, wait, it is. Never Mind. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:02, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Its being made by bushmaster. Why the remington logo?
:Bushmaster is making the semi-auto only civilian version, Remington is making the selective-fire military/LE version. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:14, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

really? i thought remington bought the ACR from them completely [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:20, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Interesting news. The ACR has now been officially released and it the ACR in MW2 is a fake combination of parts. The ACR Basic Configuration has the original handguard from the Magpul Masada, but a different skeleton stock similar to the Magpul MOE or CTR stocks. The ACR Enhanced Configuration has the new squared-off CR handguard with rails and the more iconic ACR stock. The ACR in-game, however, has the ACR Basic handguard (don't be fooled by the fact that there are rails, it's just the original Masada handguard with rails attached) and the ACR Enhanced stock. I'd call it a Magpul Masada, seeing as the trademarks and such aren't discernible as anything real. --[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 19:34, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Seeing as the in-game model is taken directly from the ACR featured on FutureWeapons, which was the Magpul version, that makes sense. -CC

==Taped Mags==
I noticed that several of the assualt rifles have tape wrapped around the magazines, is this for a specific reason or just a choice made by the makers? [[User:Death|Death]]

Lots of soldiers in the army tape the ends of their mags to distinguish theirs from a buddies, or the mags that they actually bought if they feel their issued ones were overused or sub par. Some also put grip tape so sweaty hands don't slip when pulling them from their pouches. I'm sure game designers saw this and included it. [[User:Winglebest]]

i thought that so whether you put the mag in bottom up or not, you'd know which end to put into the magazine well.
:anyone who's been properly trained with firearms wouldn't do that. Full magazines always go into the pouch with the brass facing down.

==Weapon on newspaper==
Hey for anyone who has played the game,do you think the rifle from the newspaper they showed when talking about Makarov should be included?

:I personally wouldn't have any issue with it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:08, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Alrigh good, maybe someone will post a picture up on the internet andwe could add that

post at 9 January 2010 --[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 14:03, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

this is Daewoo K2
[[Image:Daewoo-K2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Daewoo K2 Assault rifle - 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Mw2k2.png|thumb|none|500px|Daewoo K2 Assault rifle - 5.56mm]]

but where have IMI Galil ?
the left Ultra-nationalist with a Galil ?
[[Image:Mw2Galil.png|thumb|none|500px| ]]

==Suggestions==
I think the page needs the F2000 and TAR-21 with their special sights. Also, if anyone is looking for a screen of the M14 EBR with nothing attached, there's one in the spec ops mission where you breach the gulag wall. Oh, and we need the GP-25 included. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 19:40, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

:The TAR-21 on the page ''already'' has a MARS sight on it. And the F2000 on the page is the same version used in the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:11, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::There are no in-game screens of the MARS sight and the F2000's standard scope is in the game as the RDS in multiplayer, or "scoped" in singleplayer.
:::http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:F2000FP.jpg

No one ever went through with this? --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:42, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

==winchester 1887 loading animation==

Is it supposed to load through reciever like that?
\
:Yes -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

::Sort of. The animation shows the rounds being placed in the upper tube (the barrel) rather than the lower tube (the magazine). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

It is wierd, but 1887's do load that way.
When you pull the cocking lever down the top of the breech kind of rolls back and opens.
The shells slip into the breech, past the chamber and down into the tube magazine below the barrel.
They're slow and a little clumsy to reload IRL. You have to push the shell down into the magazine tube past the stop with your thumb.
You can get a close look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE9WD9Fihks

:::This one looks like the cowboy action shooter style thats made to quickly load 2 shots, usually custom jobs but I believe Legacy Arms -> Puma Arms is currently selling one. Since in cowboy action shooting you can only have a maximum of 2 rounds in a shotgun. [[Special:Contributions/24.177.167.87|24.177.167.87]]Pawnstar

== Price's 1911 ==
Actually its in the game it can be picked up and used in the museum, don't know about MP though.

*It's not featured in MP, it's exclusive to the single player level Museum, though I have heard you can find it during an early mission, much in the same way as to how the desert eagle in MW was found on Crew Expendable (the only one in the entire SP campaign btw). Apparently on one of the loading screens, it details the weapon as a GI 1911 (unsure of the manufactuer) compared to what it was in Modern Warfare, a Springfield Armoury 1911 Professional model. [[Draco122|Draco122]]

On one of the loading scenes I think it said it was a colt.

The one used by price is a springer pro, colt's just a more recognizable name to put in loading screens.

Yeah, most definitely NOT a Colt. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not arguing about the policies of IMFDB, or what the 1911 is listed as, but it is possible that the 1911 in-game is a Colt. Just look at "The Punisher (2004)" page and take a good look at his custom pistols. They started out as standard Colt 1911's and ended up like that with all the upgrades put on it. Give me a standard Colt and enough money and I can promise you I'll make it look just like the 1911 in game. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 06:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
:And the logic in making a Colt look exactly like a Springer Pro is...? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:40, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
::To validate my argument. Or if you find yourself the owner of a standard Colt 1911 and wish to make it look and function better without buying a new gun. The military was thinking along the same lines with the MEU SOC. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 12:42, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, that's all irrelevant anyway. IMFDB policy is to identify guns by what they LOOK like, not what they can be customized to look like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:46, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

== M93R ==
There is a confirmation of the M93R machine pistol to be unlocked in MW2 online as confirmed in this video at the bottom of this page

http://modernwarfare247.com/news/multiplayer-unlocks - Madax XX

CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO ADD PICTURES ONTO A PAGE ?????????????

Somebody change the part where it says "Beretta 92FS converted to burst-fire," it's obviously a Beretta M93R are and not a 92FS. --[[User:Frostbite249|Frostbite249]] 13:43, 6 January 2010 (UTC)-

No, it's a 92. The weapon in game has the safety mounted on the slide, like the 92, whereas the 93 has it mounted on the frame. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 14:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure that's fine and all, but at least clear it up so there's no misunderstandings - I mean it says "converted to ''full auto''" when in-game, it's only 3 round burst. --[[User:Frostbite249|Frostbite249]] 13:50, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
:Then maybe "converted to ''selective fire''" is a bit better wording? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

You guys know that Beretta only made a couple hundred of the M93Rs. [[SargeOverkill]]

That's great?

== Who saw this video, 92, FS or SB? ==
The video with the Beretta M9, Ive not seen, Is it a 92 FS or SB?, i mean this isn't my site but still putting M9 just make's it as noobs are running the place, lol sorry, so who has the link to the video?
*It is impossible to understand it from video. The only place this pistol appears is shown on the screenshot, the trigger guard is not seen, so i decided to discribe it as military modification, M9. I don't think, that it is a big problem for you to write what is this pistol realy is, whan we will have a better view.

Didn't mean to offended you, it's just most people come to this site to get correct info on weapons, but i suppose putting M9 isn't that bad considering that its the correct name, i just feel its lack of info.

Its the 92SB again, you can tell on its Create-A-Class picture

== Airsoft ==
I like airsoft as much as the next guy, but we already have pictures of ''real'' M4A1s and MP5Ks on the site, so no need to replace them with pics of airsoft replicas. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, but the "real" M4A1s and MP5Ks in the game don't look like those pictures; for the sake of identification, wouldn't it just be simpler to use images that at least look like the weapons from the game, whether they're real or not? Besides, there are plenty of other pages that use airsoft images, so why should this one be an exception?
:Biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of. As you can see on the [[M16 rifle series|M16]] and [[Heckler & Koch MP5|MP5]] pages, we have plenty of pictures of the real things, so no need to add airsoft replicas to the page instead. Whether or not they're equipped with a specific rail system or not is moot, since the rail systems in question are pictured beneath the weapons and the addition of them ''on'' the weapons doesn't change anything. An M4 is still an M4 and an MP5K is still an MP5K. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:There has always been guns we see in movies that have been customized and don't look like the stock photos of the gun unmodded. It's best to have a picture of the real thing than a fake that LOOKS like the one used in the movie. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
:Then shouldn't all the other airsoft pictures (such as the Custom 1911 seen on the MGS4 page and the Cutlass on the Black Lagoon page, and even the Springfield Armory M1911 on CoD4's and MW2's page) be replaced with stock pictures? If you're gonna insist on this, you might as well go all the way.
::As I've already pointed out, '''biggest part of airsoft pictures used on this site are of guns we don't have pictures of'''. So those images are there '''because we don't have pics of the real things'''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

For the record, I'm in favor of pictures of the weapons modded or detailed as they are seen in the movie or game. Chances are the link takes you to the base page for them anyway, so you can see a picture of the real deal. Someone might be looking for a picture of the gun that is identical to how it is in the film or game. Whether it's airsoft or not to me seems moot as long as it is the weapon in question. Of course, no orange tips, please. -- ZG
:The problem I have with all Airsoft guns is that they all scream "FAKE!" to those of us who spend alot of time around the real thing. Now as placeholders until we get a real weapon image I don't mind as it's a placeholder. Useing an airsoft gun insted of a real firearm that we have an image of that I just don't like. We do get the occational screem used weapon here and even when those have been beat to hell they are much better than the most realistic airsoft gun.--[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 16:48, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Replaced the airsoft M4A1 with the pic of a real one yet again. It doesn't matter whether it looks exactly like it does in-game or not. An M4A1 is an M4A1, regardless of what it looks like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

But if you could find a picture of what it looks like exactly in the game, wouldn't you use it? -- ZG

:The inclusion of a few tacticool accessories is not enough of a reason to waste server space on even more photos of a weapon we already have a number of photos of. For the third time, an M4A1 is an M4A1 regardless of what kind of rail system and whatnot is on it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I (not that it matters) am perfectly fine with pictures of the real deal and I love the effort that's gone into posting such great screenshots. I just hope the trend keeps with noting what particular accessories are present. I'm one of those douchebags that sees guns in the movies and thinks "Golly! I want mine to look just like that!" In any case, I love the site and it hasn't let me down yet. -- ZG

:Nothing at all wrong with noting what kind of accessories are used and by no means does it make you (or anyone else) a douchebag. I mean, flashlights, IR and visible lasers, optics... all that stuff is awesome. I just think it's unnecessary (as well as a waste of server space) to have multiple pics of one weapon customized in multiple different ways each for a few specific pages when one pic of the weapon in its standard configuration can be used on all pages, with minor differences noted in the descriptory paragraph. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I'm all for the efficient use of resources and I come here for info and screenshots anyway. I wasn't necessarily against airsoft pictures but I do see it a different way now. In the spirit of full disclosure, however, I really am quite a douchebag. -- ZG

:Lol XD Well, they ''do'' say honesty is golden... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

==Planned Weapons==
Where did the informatio for most of these planned weapons come from??
:No idea, and no one has posted any sources, and there's no way to edit it now. Maybe if another multiplayer video shows up, someone with some authority will notice them and can remove them. I mean, really, the XM8? COD4 never had it and that came out when it was still showing up in every "realistic" FPS.--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
::IMHO, the XM8 is way overused in video games today. I'm glad IW shied away from it in favor of weapons like the ACR/Masada, that actually got beyond ''prototype'' stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
the acr isnt past prototype stage
:::No, it just isn't widely available yet, but it ''is'' beyond prototype stage. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:53, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
:The ACR is actually being produced by both Bushmaster and Remington. It's already being marketed and available to purchase [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
The ACR is not yet available for purchase (if it was, I'd already own one), Cerberus (the supergroup that owns both Remington and Bushmaster) is ramping up production on the rifles. The design is, however, complete, and one of the weapons was given away to a civilian recently as part of a raffle. It is expected to compete in an upcoming US Army rifle test.

==Winchester 1887==
Is the Winchester 1887 actually confirmed for the game? If it is, you can pretty much create a T2 class with that shotgun, the thumper, juggernaut, stopping power and something else that suits Arnie:P - Madax XXI 12:28

:Yup, it's in there. I'm totally gonna have a Terminator 2 online kit. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

::It's definetely confirmed now, and with the big cocking loop and sawnoff stock and barrel too, only a hint of Terminator 2 fanboyism from IW there.... Can't wait to try it though. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:I found it in campaign a minute ago and it really sucks-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:41, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

^^^I think it's pretty good, I'm stoked to get it online.

::Same here, I heard it has fairly good range and damaged when stacked up to the other shotguns, it just has a slower ROF, due to the lever action. you can dual wield them though, which says something. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:It's one of the only shotguns with the furthest range out of the lot in MP, this and steady aim and it's a monster in it's own. Like you said M14, it has a low ROF and the second smallest capacity next to the ranger [[Draco122|Draco122]] 21:06, 26 November 2009

::Actually it doesn't. I picked an 1887 up off a dead guy today, and was amazed. first thing is, that it has stunning range. Easily the best, can hit damn close to 50 feet. It holds 7 shots in MP as well, and you can dual wield them, cocking them T2 style. It's a beast of a shotgun, and I can't wait to unlock it for myself. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::Isn't this weapon the Winchester 1897 shotgun, originally designed for trench warfare and used by the US military thru Vietnam (and plenty are still in use by civilians in the US). In playing COD 5: World at War, I haven't found the shotguns to be particularly effective. The Japanese NPCs are often so quick (esp in the higher difficulty level) that they are on you before you can chamber another round (esp in the section of the game where you have to destroy a howitzer with a 3 barreled 25mm AA gun and quickly take up a covered position to eliminate the Japanese counter-attack using a scoped Springfield). Two Japanese soldiers immediately attack you. I was killed more often using the shotgun than using the Type 100 or the .30 belt-fed machine gun--whose name just eluded me.

:::As for COD6:MW2, I have yet to run into the 1897. With so many high tech weapons (and the bewildering array of Russian weapons in the Sgt Roach and Pvt Ramirez sections), why bother with such an obsolete weapon given the effectiveness of the ASC45 (?) that's standard issue for Rangers & Special Forces, esp when there are smg/shotgun combos available. Or the incredible arsenal in Makarov's safe house?

:::[[User:Newsjunkie356|Newsjunkie356]] 23:58, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

:::: It's not an 1897, it's an 1887, being lever-action not pump-action. That and it's styled after the Terminator 2 shotgun anyway.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 09:03, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

==M1014 Removal?==
Should we remove the section on the M1014 in this game? There hasnt been any confirmation of it appearing in game, aside from the misplaced icon.

No, it has been confirmed now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKwaOg7RYPo

== Any Ideas On The .44 Magnum ==
I think its either a Raging bull or a colt anaconda. both look quite simmlar but im thinkin it more a colt anaconda than a raging bull reason being that the the magnum in game look as if it has smaller vents were as the raging bull as quite thick vents. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

On the Call of Duty wikipedia website it said it was a colt anaconda

Link plz? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 22:12, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Found a video on youtube where they switch classes revealing a .44 magnum on 0:16 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xv37FiiOAk]

==Clean Up Page==
I cleaned up the main page, but i can change it back if any one want's. --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that FourZeroTwo has a gun on his back before getting knifed, that you missed. It appears to be a PP-2000, please correct me if I'm wrong

http://www.modernwarfare247.com/weapons/sub-machine-guns/pp-2000

You could be right, but Ive got a hunch it could be a MP7, which seems more likely. But from what we can see its hard to tell. (thx also :)

No problem, I just love MW and MW2 and had to point that out, but I didnt know who to talk to about it. Great site, too:) I learned loads about guns, like the difference between a Beretta and a Taurus:) - Terry 00:06

I was right about the PP-2000!:) - Terry 23:30

I was like "Sure" when i saw your above post, then i look at the pic of the PP-2000 akimbo, and was like "FUCK" cool any way m8 :)

== Bullet Types ==
What is this about the Tavor being loaded with FMJ's? Is this supposed to mean that along with choosing weapon attachments, we also get to choose bullet types? - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]

A bit too confusing now lol, I'm thinking it will just be a perk, because if im right fmj's give higher velocities, but i couldn't see how this would affect the game, in cod 4 all bullets moved at the same speeds?

Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?

What i understand is that FMJ are solid bullets and the only bullets "allowed" in warfare from the Hague Conventions.

True, but but a "Black" operation such as this would hardly be concerned with the rules of "conventional warfare." =P

The Theory behind JHP (Jacketed Hollow Points) is that upon impact of the target the nose of the bullet mushrooms to a much larger size the then original diameter(caliber) of the bullet causing a larger wound channel and more "stopping power"

The downside to this is that since JHP expand during impact the force of the bullet is dispersed over a larger area on the target making these bullets less likely to pierce body armor, also some HP bullets give certain firearms trouble when cycling this ammo. my 1911 for instance... =)

Your 1911's feeding of hollow point has to do with the type of 1911 usually. Different kinds of feeding ramps I'm told. My series 70 Gold cup has the same problem but my Springfield TRP feeds just fine.
FMJ's moving at Higher velocities has to do with air drag, hollow points would create more of it. As others have said hope this helps, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong.

But basically all bullets work well for their intended applications. its just that in this day and age there are so many options for a person to use its just matching the bullet to the task. Hunting, Target, Match, Self-defense, Low recoil or "Cowboy" Loads, Plinking. Its endless. -Furious Oyster (feel free to expand or remove if incorrect or unnecessary, just trying to help)

well... I didn't exactly want a bullet discussion, i was just wondering how this would affect the game, like if infinity ward would make it horrible and make stuff like hollow points do something like 4 times damage but only go as far as a "Call of Duty Shotgun". - [[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]

"Where do you get the info that FMJ give higher velocities? just curious?"- I just read alot on firearms :P but i remember coming across it?

As far as i know there is an international convention that bans the use of hollow point bullets and other expanding bullets for millitary purposes.

:That would be the Hague Convention. But from what I understand, it bans their use against ''state-employed combatants'' only, leaving them fair game for counter-terrorism ops and the like. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

FMJs could be like the perk "Deep Impact"?

They are an attachment for the guns that gives them a little extra damage and better penetration through walls too.

== Extended Magazines Attachments ==
Thought it was pretty cool, but will it be like a drum mag or something like bandolier, what ever it is i hope it applies to assault rifles.

[[Image:Ump45em.jpg|400px]]

:Could be a dual mag clip, so you can reload faster. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 00:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
:: Magazine dammit!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:11, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
He said a clip that holds two magazines together for a speedier reload - Mythekal
:::Huh. i never heard of that before. Good point, Mythekal.

Lol its still a mag Mythekal!

its usually just a metal or plastic part that latches to both mags allowing you to just pull out the used one move it to the left and reinsert the fresh mag... Some times its just a piece of tape. Google AR-15 mag couplers or something. -Furious Oyster (Sorry miss read it)

I knew what a dual mag clip is, i was merely trying to explain it to who ever thought that M14Fan said "Clip" instead of Magazine. And here is a picture to avoid further confusion. -[[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]

[[Image:Dual_Mag_clamp.jpg‎|200px]]

There better be an attachment like this for the AA-12, cause its gonna get really annoying reloading that lousy 8-shot magazine every five seconds after unloading on someone lol-ArmoredMason619

Apparently the extended mags are exactly what you think. They take the standard magazines of any gun and just add like 10 more rounds to it. I don't know about the reload animation, but most likely it's the same. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

the extended mags look exactly the same and reload the same they've just got more rounds- red raindog

==Barret .50==

At the end of the Flag Runner video FourZeroTwo has a Barret M82. May not be, but it looks like one and sounds like one, it's a little blurry so i wasn't sure? -Final Tsurugi

It looks like a Barrett XM500 - Mythekal

How did i not notice that, actually might be a Barrett M99? - Final Tsurugi

:Or it could be the M107, the updated M82. ][[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy] 01:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

It wasnt the M99 because it was firing semi-automatically, and from the angle, the magazine was not visible, so i assume it was a bullpup - Mythekal

It is a Barret M82/M107, if you pause the video at the right moment you can see the magazine in front of the grip, i actually got excited to think we might have a bull-pup sniper in Modern Warfare 2 :P -Final Tsurugi

Nope. Youre all wrong, I mean you got the .50BMG part right, but its actually an Accuracy International AS50. Come on guys I cant be the only one who noticed that-Kellers357
I'm almost positive that it is not an AI. It is just a M107 [[User:mythekal|mythekal]]

Most definitely a Barret 82/M107. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

It is an M82A1, just like in COD4. M107's actually larger than the M82, but has less recoil because of its internal design. --[[User:Frostbite249|Frostbite249]] 13:42, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

== Brazillian Militia? ==

They better make the main character waste the militia alongside the Brazilian Army or the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batalhão_de_Operações_Policiais_Especiais BOPE] or I am not buying it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

:I actually like that causal outfit the militia wear :)
::Me too. I never seen a Brazilian wear a 1980s Miami Vice style flower shirt, but i do like how they have militia wearing Brazilian football team shirts. Makes it more realistic. I like the flower shirts though. They are cheesy as hell. It fits the game. Also, Please sign your posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah Miami vice ftw :) --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 21:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

==Guns from the new teaser==
This SMG looks like a [[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]].
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|300px|[[Heckler & Koch MP5#Special Weapons MP-10 and SP-10|Heckler & Koch MP-10]]]]
[[Image:MW2teastrail1.png|thumb|none|400px|I thought it was a MP5K but if we look closer, it doesn't seem to be one.]]
:It could be a K with the forward grip removed? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

no, its an MP5K equipped with some sort of an RIS handguard to me-Kellers357

looks like an MP5 with a tactical end-cap, kinda like the end cap on the MP5K. no idea why there's a 15 round magazine though
[[Image:MW2teastrail2.png|thumb|none|400px|And this one looks like a UMP but the the silhouette isn't exactly the same (maybe the model of the game was not loaded enough).]]
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:It definitely resembles a UMP, it probably has rails on the handguard, as well as the front sight removed, as they did in the last game ~[[user:Revolver|Revolver]]
its a UMP with the foresight removed for the red dot-Kellers357

The one in the first picture is I think a Special Weapons MP-10. Check it out at the bottom of the mp5 page.
::The forearm doesn't look as large as the MP-10 though... everything else looks like a MP-10 indeed.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
The two guns look similar minus the stock and clip. I could be wrong but I'm sure that if it isn't a special weapons mp-10 then it is an UMP.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:Magazine goddamit![[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
What's wrong with saying clip? It means the same thing.
:.. Uh, no. It's not. A 'clip' is the device that loads a magazine. You either use it to load your detachable magazines, or you carry the clips to load the fixed magazine in your rifle (on old rifles). You don't carry 'clips' around any more. They're two different things. It's like saying rim and tyre mean the same thing. --[[User:Joffeloff|Joffeloff]] 12:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I've never heard that before. I can see where clip comes from stripper clip that they used in rifles. Everyone around me says clip and mag is interchangeable but people use mag more often. If it really bothers you that much then I'll just say mag then.
[[Image:Mp10catch1.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Special Weapons MP-10 9x19mm]]
The second one looks like an UMP. I'm pretty sure we're dealing with two guns here.
::Yeah but there is no rear sight on the one in the screenshot, and it's disturbing me... maybe they took it away because of the Red Dot on it.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually if you look closely that kinda square shape towards the back of the gun is the iron sight so it's pretty much an UMP with what looks like an ACOG. If you're talking about the front sight for the UMP which does appear to be missing, remember that they removed the front sights from the M4/M16 when you attach a sight even though that's not standard.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
[[Image:UMP 45.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Heckler & Koch UMP .45 ACP]]
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

I've got a clearer shot of the weapon thanks to a friend :)
[[Image:MW2MP.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok I guess it's not an MP-10 but a dressed up MP-5. They did it to the AK I suppose they are going to do it to the MP-5?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Guys on CoD Wikia found an interesting thing about this gun and I pretty agree: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Modern_Warfare_2#Sub_Machine_Guns They say it's a MP5K with a R.I.S system. Since they've put one for the M4, I guess that's possible.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

It has to be a MP5k with a rail. The short magazine,no stock, and small flashider make it the only possible variant.

==what AK is this?==
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=2&newsid=20387
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=4&newsid=20387
http://www.gamegrep.com/showimage.php?pos=5&newsid=20387

In the first image I can see that it has a waffle magazine. In the second image I can see that a muzzle brake is present, and in the last image I can see what appears to be a Tapco Intrafuse AK-47 Handguard. So what is it? Oh and it appears to have a synthetic stock. [[Special:Contributions/72.133.253.21|72.133.253.21]] 21:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== Guns from the trailer ==
[[Image:MW2brazil.png|thumb|none|400px|FN FAL or Imbel MD-3 (brazilian variant of the FAL)?]]
I hope it's an FAL. You barely ever see them in video games-S&Wshooter
:Could be a variant of the KTR-03S - an AK custom build [http://www.krebscustom.com/RawPhotos/6-28-04/KTR-03SFinal.jpg]. - MCain (UTC)
:Me too. I love fals. And the gun above looks like a IMBEL MD2. Heres the wikipedia article: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMBEL_MD2]. Note how it has a STANAG Magazine like the MD2.I also love how ridiculous looking the Brazilian gang members are.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::rather MD-3 isn't it? Since it hasn't a foldable stock.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah without the folding stock it is a MD3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::::However, the gun's long barrel looks more like a FAL... ahh sh*t! This fuc*ing game is driving me mad, every guns don't look exactly the same as their originals^^--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:I think there are Imbel MD2s or MD3s with the regular barrel.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:Ok, there are no Imbel MD3s with regular barrels. It's most likely a design error by the developters.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
(comment: It better be a FAL. I'm getting tired of M4's, M16's, AK's and G36's. I want to be able to use a gun ingame that in't too small for me in real life.-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]])
:I agree. the game better have G3s and IMI galils. I also love the fact that is a Brazilian made Fal. You don't see those in movies.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
:I also want a MG3 or some kind of big, dumb machine gun chambered to 7.62x51mm NATO. Machine guns chambered to 7.62 tear shit up.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
: Hell yeah man! Thats exactly what I'm saying. I would also like to see some more bolt action jobs that aren't crappy( DSR-1, Enfield Enforcer, Steyr SSG) in video games- [[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
::''This would probably be the IMBEL MD-2 (folding stock) or MD-3 (fixed stock) which is manufactured locally in Brazil. The weapons are based, pretty much, on the FAL with the exception that they fire a 5.56 round'' [[User:Charon68|Charon68]]
:::And are fed from STANAG Magazines and have different handguards.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
:I'm tired of .223 guns. I would like to see a FAL, M14 or G3 that isn't emasculated (made innacurate, weak or make ammo for it scarce)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]]
::I want a M14 that is not tricked out with rails like the one in Call of Duty 4. I want a M14 like the one below:
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|A real M14.]]
I do like the Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR rifle though. I also want A M16A4 that doesn't fire on Full Auto and a AK-74. AK-74s don't get enough love.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::CoD 7 will be about Vietnam War according to rumours, maybe they'll put in one.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 19:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
::And smaller conflicts in africa. I hope they also put atleast one level that takes place in the portuguese colonial war.
[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:29, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Now i think the FAL above may be a FN FAL with rails on the handguards and a 30 round magazine but i think it's too curved and big to be 7.62x51mm NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

im taking a guess that the FAL looking rifle is a DSA SA58 OSW. im probably wrong, but thats my two cents
:Way too big to be an SA58. The SA58 is a Carbine. The one in the upper picture is an Assault Rifle. Also, sign your posts by putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:02, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
[[Image:MW2smg.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[Image:MW2Brazilpistol.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 16:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

*A Kriss Super V?
Does anyone know who the guy with the KRISS is? Im calling him Brazilian Secret Service but I'm sure Im wrong. Help?-Kellers357
Cool. The pistol is a Desert Eagle, by the way.-protoAuthor
:I think the pistol is a Jericho 941 since it's too small to be a desert eagle.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
::No, it's an Eagle. Check out the ejection port.
:::''I concur. It's not terribly visible, but there's that familiar slide mounted safety in both shots. It appears to be a totally game-created custom finish though - the barrel and the underlying section of the frame (where the gas pistons are housed) look to be blued and the grips and the rest of the frame looks silver. On a couple of related notes, wow at the graphics - I took these for pictures of the developers testing out their guns at first - and wow at the handling of the Desert Eagle by this guy. Usually in these games, you see handguns being handled only somewhat compentently at best. This guy looks like he sleeps with the damn thing.'' ---[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 02:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Also, take note of the sound it makes when it fires. Exact same sound as the Desert Eagle in CoD4.
:::::Besides, the game is still going through production and the weapon models will be touched up. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

== The machine gun ==
I think the machine gun that the russian terrorists are using is a M240.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think it's a M249 SAW, the M240 (GP Machine gun) is bigger.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Could it possibly be a Mk. 46?
:Makes sense since most of the guns are special forces guns.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
:Well the M240B has been added just look at the new multiplayer trailer. IGN rewind theater confirms it too. could someone add it on the main article? -Mandaloin

==New AK==
[[Image:AKMW2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
I think its just an amped up AK-47. It has an AR-15 stock, waffle magazine, and has a synthetic handguard.
Found a similar image:
[[Image:Ak-47-weapon-accessories-desert-colourb.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 22:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:Good god, look what they did to that AK! That's just horrible. I hope the AK in the game isn't like that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:37, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::I watched the trailer again. I am sure that i saw a AK with a AK-74 style flash hider.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Maybe a AK-101 since NATO forces use 5.56mm.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think it could be a AK-74M or just a AK-74 since the russian army might make a apparence and they need to arm the russian soldiers.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I said "NATO forces"--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC) because the one having it in the screenshot is Soap... well, maybe or surely, he captured because he had a M14 at the beginning.
::Well...the game's plot is a about a Uber badass special forces unit that works alone and is headed by our buddy Soap up there. So, i guess the badass special forces unit is not part of NATO.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:35, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Neither AK-101 or AK-74, the magazine in the image holds 7.62x39mm. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 00:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Maybe theres the tricked out AK up there and the AK-74 style AK.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, seems like we won't know until we'll have a level walkthrough with the name of the weapon in it...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
::I saw the Gameplay videos and i saw two different AKs. One with a AKM style muzzle brake and another one with a AK-74 style flash hider. Maybe we can build guns from the ground up? like, you can have a AK-47 with a kobra sight, snow camo, fires 7.62x39mm and has a AK-74 flash hider?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
*It's gotta be an AKM.
::Why the it would be an AKM? It looks like an AK-74M or one of the AK-100 series.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Well it has ribbing on the top of the reciever, like the AKM, but the indentation I cannot clearly see. It could be like in Farcry 2, where it has the Ak-47 receiver with some AKM parts, and I used AKM because the 100 series are developments on the AKM, understand? So AK-47 is incorrect.
::::But the AK-10X series were developments on the AK-74M. Also, sign you posts.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well technically the modernizations start with the AKM, I see it as the break off point of the AK series. Ak-74 was designed from the AKM, and so on and so on, but that doesn't matter, yeah it could be the 100 series, but my point is its not an AK-47. Also lacks the flash hiders of the 74 and 100s. But I think it's a frankenAK-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]
::I think the AK-74 flashider can be seen when in first person. Like how in the first Modern Warfare, The first person model of the M4 had an grip on the handguard but the world model didn't have a grip. I also think it's an frankengun or it may be an AK that the player can build. Like in hitman: Blood Money.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't think so on the 74, but I think we can agree in the meantime it is not an AK-47 so we should change the heading accordingly, evidence shows it is a modernized variant so we could say a Kalashnikov in the heading and have notations that it is a modernized variant.-[[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]]

It looks like it has the AK-47 variant front sight on it.

Guys, I guess it's new railed AK-103 from Izhmash with M4ish buttstock and waffled mags. Check the link below for pics, note the same muzzle brake etc as in the game.
[http://depositfiles.com/files/xgycdj189 new AK-103]

:That link goes to a pay-to-download site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Gentleman, why do the russians carry AKs with a bunch of western furniture on them? I don't think Izhmash orders their stock and handgrip parts from Tapco. Great thinking, Modern Warfare 2 producers! -Camden

== Unrealeted ==
Ok, i know this has nothing to do with the game or releted to guns but, i was reading the Modern Warfare 2 thread on the Something Awful forums and they were calling the Brazilian gangters africans. What the ? and they seen to think the scenes in Rio De Janeiro are set in Africa. What the mother ? it offends me that people are dumb enough to ignore the line "he's got a contact in rio" and Christ the Redeemer and the huge mountains with favelas full of illiterate drug dealers and the Brazilian made Imbel MD-3.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
:What do you expect? It's Something Awful!

To be fair all the favela gangsters that are seen so far are Afro-Brazilians, even if there are plenty of gang members of all races in real life. With so many games having levels in destroyed urban areas in Africa it's not surprising that some people would get a Black Hawk Down style vibe from the pictures.

Personally I hate something Awful as they break their own rules on posting. One member has a post on there with my first and last names and it's a bloody poison pen hitpeice. I asked the frigging syop to remove the shit and he laughed at me. Personally I find the site the home of a bunch of elitist idiots who have at least one member dumb enough to set the fuel line for a weilding torch on fire.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 19:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:Hey, i like something awful but you have to be really dumb not to see the Christ the redeemer.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

==Hopes For New Game==

Want a little realism and some weapons like standard battle rifles not all trick out with rails. Hoping russians have ak-74s and makarovs or that new 9x19 pistol they developed, not ak47s. Militias and gangs should have a mix of guns, not all berettas and 1911s. A makarov, cz-75, hk or two, glock, model 19 smiths.....just variety.

What the fick is an "akarov"? Lol-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Makarov, a 9x18mm pistol that has been issued in several variants to the russian military. Come on, seriously, sticky keys some things are mspelled.

I knew that. I was just kidding-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the brazilians should use taurus and stoeger guns too, that would be realistic. And the militia should have some sxs coach guns and taurus revolvers, you know, the non tatcticla stuff. And psitols should be portrayed as hard to shoot, not coming back exactly on target after each round and it should wobble a bit while aiming.
:The Brazilian gangsters are using tricked out guns with rails. At least the IMBEL MD-3 up there has a Eotech reflex sight and what looks like rails on the handguards but they could be the regular MD-3 hand guard. We know the AKs are going to be tricked out as like the image above but i think i saw a AK-74 that was not tricked out. I hope they have a AK-74.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

My major hope for the game is a surpressed sniper rifle available on multiplayer not single. The first Modern Warfare was a great stealth game with all the "Surpressors", and "Ghillie Suits" but really was a "Greek Tragedy" on multiplayer. I could understand that your average military trained sniper has a spotter and a shooter and are trained to be the world's top 10 patient people in the world but can't put the patience into a live game with real people in a seven minute match. Aside from history why couldn't the writers just put a M21 with a surpressor on in multiplayer like in the missions "Blackout" and "All Ghillied Up"? For the new guys to COD4 on the M21 attachments there are only two attachments "No Attachment" has a standard scope, the ACOG attachment has a ACOG scope and is missing a surpressor as a third attachment. If you understand how to customize your attachments you wouldn't be so confused but since the "No Attachment" feature has a standard scope why not have the surpressor and scope. It just doesn't make sense why you would have the same setup in the campaign but not in multiplayer. We can all understand why you can't have more than one attachment on any other weapons but why not add a surpressor on a sniper that has "No Attachment" for it's standard scope? I am probably to late to send this message to Infinity Awards but I spent 20 minutes on it so I might get lucky if they read it and a miracle if they change it. I'm just sharing my hopes so try not to delete it.

I hope they get more shotguns in and make them a tiny bit better.m3,870,m1300,m950,etc. Two shotguns that go 5 feet suck, especially when pistols can go as far as sniper rifles.

* If they added compensators to the attachments for handguns would be cool. It sucks that there's only one attachment for pistols in MW1, and the D-Eagle hasnt got anything that can be put on it, and that sucks even more. Maybe different calibers for the D-Eagles could be used too, but that might be going too far. And I hope theres an SG552 in there aswell, I love that gun so much. And if they added firing selection to the game, you could switch the SPAS from pump to semi auto, which would also be cool, and a touch more realistic.

:More Desert Eagle is the ''last'' thing this game needs. Seriously, why not a SIG 226 or HK45 instead (i.e., an actual ''combat pistol'')? One thing I want for sure is a freaking fire selector for assault rifles and carbines. Like has been said on the CoD4 page, full auto or bust sucks. I prefer quick double tapping on semi-auto. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:54, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

My hopes for this game? An automatic FAMAS; leave the 3-round burst to the M16. Also, a true M14. As for everything else, well, the only thing I was worried about from the onset was the RPD, but since it's been confirmed, I'm ecstatic. And I like how they're doing the secondary weapon thing. Having a shotgun as your primary could be pretty useless sometimes...[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
-you no what, they need to make a real "modern warfare" game, like with acts going from Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, and hell Somalia, who wouldnt want to play a blackhawk down game with kick ass graphics AND guns, that is what cod7 should be and obviously with the real weaponry they had, ex- no Magpul Masada in vietnam, Sad but true, any agree with this?- Griz

==Winchester 1200==

We all know the 1200 is old and not used since vietnam. The 1300 is used. Would it be safe to say these are mis-named winchester 1300s? Or is it more video game nonsense?
:The 1200 in this game is the same 1200 from Modern Warfare 1 so it's safe to say that the Winchester is a 1200 even though is pretty retarded to militarys still be using the 1200 today.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:52, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I seriously doubt the 1200 was ever made in this configuration.
:Me too but it is a video game and video game developters are pretty retarded when it comes to guns. Still, this and COD4 have the best Gun in video game history atleast by now.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:Watching over the video again on youtube and moderwarfare2.com, the weapon does look like a Winchester 1200 at first glance, yet I'm also convinced it may be a Remington 870 MCS, either in the Entry configuration or the Patrol Configuration due to the length of the barrel or it maybe the combination of the two, due to the length of the barrel with an added entry front sight. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 22:15, 11 August 2009

[[Image:Rem870mcs_14.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|]]

== Alright ==
Alright you son-of-a-bitches there's a gameplay video in gametrailers. It's pretty low quality but some new guns were seen, including the gun with the heartbeat sensor and some others. Now, i don't know how to screencap trailers so someone else will have to do it.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Here they come:
[[Image:MW2AR1.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[Image:MW2AR2.png|thumb|none|400px|]]
--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
YOU FOOL! It's "sons-of-bitches". That's a pretty awesome-looking cap, though.-protoAuthor
:Thanks for the correction. I am sure Soap and Roach we using AKs with AK-74 flash hiders. Anyone have any idea what kind of AKs were those?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:20, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
::Oliveira, do you think you could post a link of the trailer for me, please? Thanks so much. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Which trailer?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== gameplay demo ==

did anyone see the new gameplay demo for Modern Warfare 2
it showed "Roach"(main protagonist) with a IMBEL MD-3 with a dot sight and a...radar
im not good with gun attachments but is there really a radar attatchment?
:It's a heartbeat sensor and the gun wasn't a MD-3. it looked like a fictional gun of some sort.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
::some says it's a SCAR--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 21:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Makes sense since the charging handle is on the right side. But i think the SCAR charging handle is on the left side.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
-It looks like a Sig 556 variant to me - Mythekal

Yeah looks like the sig556 itself thogh, not the military versions? Also, would it be safe to say the glock is a glock 18, no idea how anyone would mistake a full auto as a g22/.

It could just be a fully automatic Glock 22. Gun rules dont necessarily matter to video games - Mythekal
:Mythekal is right. Hell, Modern Warfare 1 had a M16A4 that fired on full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

All that matters is the real weapon that the in-game version is modeled from. Call of Duty 4 had an Aks-74u modeled from an Airsoft gun - Mythekal

I'm starting to think that this rifle could be a Bushmaster ACR, as it shares similar traits, except for the placement of the charging handle - Mythekal

:My thoughts too. The charging handle is consistent to the ACR, but the SCAR has the same kind of charging handle. We can't see the stock and both could accept a thermold mag. So it could be either. I really doubt they make up an entire fiction rifle for the sake of it. Modern Warfare was always all about guns that are real. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

::Though the weird part is, the ACR has a slide release right next to the trigger, similiar to the XM8. You reload and just press forward with your trigger finger, no need to slap or pull the charging handle. The SCAR has the slide release like the AR-15 rifles, you can just slap it to release, but yet in the gameplay, you don't slap a slide release or push a slide release, you pull the charging handle back. Strange [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

It could be a Magpul Masada. It is very similar to the weapon in the videos, and has a charging handle on the right side of the receiver. In the video, the stock has a hinge, indicating a folding stock, which looks almost identical to the Masada. - Mythekal

The rifle also has ambidexterous charging handles - Mythekal

:That sumbitch is most certainly a Masada.

new gameplay vid says it's a silenced ACR with heartbeat sensor.

I think it is a Magpul Masada [[User:Choi117|Choi117]]
:I watched the Gameplay and i'm sure that the gun is a ACR.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

ACR is the masada. Same gun, switched manufacturer.
:Sorry, i didn't know that.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

But the stock is that of the Masada - Mythekal

::ACR man, I know the Masada sounds cooler, but it isn't call that anymore. It's like people still calling the REC 7 a Barret M468 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:42, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Or any of the M16 series of weapons a AR-15.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
:Well if it's called AR15, you would be referring to the civilian M16 rifles. M16 is a military weapon and an AR-15 isn't. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I think the pistol is a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18C]]
:Most likely since it was firing on Full auto.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
::It was pointed out that the firing rate wasn't the same speed as a real [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], but it could be that the developers couldn't quite get the slide and sound speed for a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]]. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Or it could be a [[Glock]] firing on semi-automatic. [[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
::::That little er fires fast if its semi auto (pardon my language)
:::::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18's]] did not have this color available. [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22's]] just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.

==Weapons-trailers==

Been seeing trailers online annoncing weapons and perks. How much cred do they have? Theres no footage to back it up, bt several announced weapons are in the screenshots. They also list the 110 SASR, L85, L85 mg version, etc.
:Weapon trailers? Where the hell can i find those? They could be really useful for the article.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Youtube, theres a "weapons" one that just lists guns, and a weapons and perks thing, the perks it actually ahs proof from the original teaser.

:I wouldn't trust any of those youtube bull. One said there might be an XM8 in the game. I hope it does not. That's one more step towards having all the guns Rainbow Six have. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
::Those videos are pure speculation. I'm sure those are all . We will only document weapons that are confirmed by the developters and seen in gameplay.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

== Hbar? ==
I don't want to offend anyone but, what the mother is a Hbar?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Its the Heavy barreled variant of the Aug meant to be a squad based machine gun - Mythekal

:Hbar could also be refering to anything really. Heavy barrel anything. I've seen plenty of AR-15 variants in movies with Hbars. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::[http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6211390/?hd=1&tag=live-schedule] Sometime when the player passes over ennemies' corpses, he can take their weapons. One of them (the other is often a FA-MAS) is a AUG. There is four letter after it, a H at the beginning and I don't see well the other 3. But there is only one variant of the AUG with a "H" in its name, and that's the HBar.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Could someone upload a image of the icon in the above video? The link isn't working for me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I just watched the E3 gameplay again. The AUG HBAR pick up symbol looks amazingly like the SA80 British service rifle. Might be a place holder or something.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:I made a note of it in the actual page. It DOES look like an SA80 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

::My money's on a mislabel. We know the standard AUG is confirmed (all those screenshots) so why not the HBAR too?--[[Special:Contributions/142.162.149.33|142.162.149.33]] 17:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

::If you pause it right before you kill the guy who carried it it's an AUG. So therefore its a mislabel. (I wish I can upload the screenshot but dun know how.)
:::Sign you posts for christ's sake.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
== Correct Name ==
I think we should call this game Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 instead of just [[Modern Warfare 2]] because we have a entire alphabetized series of Call Of Duty in the Video Games Category and just putting this in the "M" section does not look we even have this page. If somebody knows how to put this in the "C" section with out changing the name that will be organized.
"You can call it Call of Duty 6 if you want...People just look at me stupid when I do it. They understand when I say 'Modern Warfare 2'." -Camden

:Well that's the problem. Originally it WAS called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and some still do, but officially, the publishers decided to shorten the title for some reason. We COULD for alphabetize sake, put Call of Duty in front so it fits with the others. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

:And I've successfully changed the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

::Wait, I thought the reason that this was called Modern Warfare 2 was because Infinity Ward no longer wanted to make any more WWII related games and as such gave the "Call of Duty" moniker to Treyarch. Modern Warfare is supposedly now a separate series from Call of Duty. [[User:Markit|Markit]]
:Modern Warfare is its own series now and isn't a CoD game anymore.-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::Or we could make a new "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" page which bring it here.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::[[Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2]]--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

:Actually, this game is still being published by Activision that published the previous game. It is STILL apart of the Call of Duty franchise, they just chose to officially call this game just Modern Warefare 2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Keep it modern warfare 2, but link them together, like GM did linking all the dirty harry movies together.

I just saw a new official cover art for the game. It says
CALL OF DUTY
MODERN WARFARE 2
so i think we should call it call of duty modern warfare 2 -Mandaloin

Thats just the boxart. Officially by the gamedevs its only called Modern warefare 2. They just slapped "call of duty" on there because a lot of people are stupid enough not to realise this IS a sequel to Call of Duty 4: modern warefare [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]

== Taskforce 141 = Rainbow Six ==

A multinational commando unit? The moment I read that, I immediately thought Rainbow and well we really can't complain what kinds of weapons these guys uses since they are a fictional unit like Rainbow so they can use whatever they want. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
:I was expecting the task forece to be from the UN. That would be cool.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::But if they say they are are UN taskforce makes the team sound kinda...pointless Like the UN does anything. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I though Rainbow Six was a UN Task Force? Anyway, a movie or televison series about a UN Uber badass task force that were formed to catch international criminals would be really cool. The problem with the UN is that they try to be neutral and being neutral doesn't do anything. The UN should be reformed to be more of a International police that works against international criminals and make international laws.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I like the UN the way it is. What you're talking about sounds like the first step to a totalitarian society.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]
:What i'm talking about is stuff like Resolution 84. I also like the UN the way it is but, they fail at quick responses to genocide such as the Rwandan Genocide in 1994.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
In general they fail at mostly any response. They just don't have the power to back up their enforcement of peace. Any peace keeping force with too much power can be oppressive. Who will keep the peace keepers in check when they're suppose to keep us in check? Quite the dilemma. I just don't think the idea of the U.N. or anything similar can work.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

:The United States shall keep the UN in check, without US, there is no UN. They need us more than we need them. It might seem like typical arrogant American mentality, but from how things are, the US has more indirect influence and handle over the entire world. We are the world's insurance policy, the self proclaimed enforcer, guardian, peacekeeping super power despite all our internal problems with crime, money and other things, but because of our population and how relatively young our nation is, the intense diversity in culture and believes keeps us in check. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
::...and this is why the rest of the world laughs at you. The UN uses the US for two things: money and muscle. If we need a billion dollars-worth of hardware and a couple of divisions of witless jocks to drive it around, you're who we go to. The two hardest things about a UN mission are coming up with a spin which makes the Yanks feel self-important and translating your orders from French to American English.
::The Problem is when someone like Bush Jr. comes up and s everything up. Could you imagine having someone like him being President of The United States during the Cold War? Anyway, The UN did have a really good quick response to the North Korean invasion of South Korea. We almost had North Korea. If weren't for the goddamm chinese.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
: Yeah if it weren't for them all this Kim Jong Il shit wouldn't be happening and we wouldn't be about to go to war in Korea-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 18:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
::Hey Smith, if someone is at fault for not winning the Korean War and not having only one Korea, is Mao. Truman also kinda ed up by telling the 7th Fleet to enter the Taiwan Straits.
:::Um, Task Force 141 is a play on Task Force 121, which in real life is a (dare I say) black ops verison of JSOC. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

I think the Task Force 141 is referring to Task Force 145 in reality. Task Force 145 is a joint force combining US and UK special forces

Task Force 121 was in no way a Black Ops Unit. It was, as 145 is, a multinational military unit assigned dircetly to counter-terrorism. Task Force 121 no longer exists it is now known as 145, which is what Task Force 141 in the game is based off of.

team rainbow was made to combat terrorism the old commander of ranbow is was a navy seal and a cia agent. he is the guy in clear and present danger is his name mr. clark.

Yeah that's from the original book, Rainbow Six. The games are all based around it. He was and Ex-SEAL who was recruited by the CIA and became an Operator[a Spy, if you wanna be movie technical.]. His name was John Clark.

:My Rainbow Six history isn't what it used to be, but I'm pretty sure John Clark was just the director of Rainbow and didn't do much field work (most of which was left to Ding Chavez, at least until the Vegas games when he was promoted to Six and Logan and Bishop were brought into the picture). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

True, he didn't do much feild. About all he did in the basis of feild work was at the end of the novel where they hunt down the Bio-terrorist's and chase them to their secondary base in Brazil. He run's the show basically as Feild Commander.

Task Force 141 in-game is made-up of an unknown amount of countries military. The three that you can definately tell are, U.S. Military, British S.A.S., and Australian S.A.S.

== More weapons comfirmed ==

It seems that p90 is making a return and spas 12 will also be ingame
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKBEQoSpu8
:That guy got a lot of the guns wrong and that AUG Hbar looked more like a SA80 to me. And what the hell is up the people thinking that the FAL in the trailer is a AK? It looks nothing like it!-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:00, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:Well, most people are unaware of all the different kinds of firearms. I'm surprise this guy in the vid ID as much as there was. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

== CPT. Price ==
I hope we get to find out if CPT. Price from CoD4 survived or not. That's been bugging me... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:47, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
:I think it would cheapen the ending of Modern Warfare 1 if he survived.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:51, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

How would that cheapen the ending of the first game? It was never clear if any of the team's survived. What about the Mile High Club mission where you hear Price and Gaz talk? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:Gaz got shot in the face with a Desert Eagle, he's dead.-protoAuthor
:"I'm really going to confuse the discussion, If Gaz got shot the face with an Action Express and died...(Which I watched) Why does Ghost sound like Gaz?" -Camden
::You aren't confusing anyone. They sound the same because they have the same voice actor. You know, sort of like how Naomi Hunter in Metal Gear Solid 1/4 and Emma Emmerich in Metal Gear Solid 2 sound the same even though they're not the same person? Seriously, all this ridiculous "Ghost is Gaz" crap and those gullible enough to believe it are getting on my nerves. Gaz took a bullet to the head. He's '''dead'''. Accept it and move on with your life. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:48, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Captain Price leads the Task Force in this game!

No, Soap leads the Task Force

Soap does sound kind of similar to Cpt. Price. I guess Price rubbed off on him a little or something.

*Price managed to last for sixty years without ageing, dying or trimming his moustache, so I can't see a little thing like being shot dead getting to him. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 10:16, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
:Well...I would like if he came back right at the end and save Soap and Roach. But, he better have a even glourious moustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, recalling CoD1 a little more, Price has ''already'' died once in the series. He was shot dead on board the ''Tirpitz'' and you just left him there, only for him to turn up again in CoD2 apparently none the worse for it. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 08:26, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Didn't COD2 take place before COD1?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Can't remember, to be honest, I didn't play it that much; I was busy being an Annoyed PC Gamer because they took away my quicksaves, fire modes and health packs and replaced them with Not Being Killed Grenades [throw one to not be killed by that machinegun!]. Still, this is his second death in the series, so I wouldn't expect it to cramp his style much. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 12:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
:Gaz and Griggs got wasted though.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:03, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

The Cpt. Price in CoD 1 and 2 is a diffrent Price, most probably grandfather. And it is unsure if Price died or if he got promoted and got a higher position...

*Oh come on, it's either a clone or the same guy, they just came up with that when people started seriously questioning an extremely silly off-hand reference. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 07:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't talk about something you don't know sh¤t about... [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Price_(Call_of_Duty_4)] the two Cpt. Price are two diffrent guys

*Two different, totally identical guys. It's an elaborate cover story to hide that Price is invincible and immortal. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
:Captain Price is a symbol representing the glourious British Military. Ok, he is just a tradition for the Guys at Infinity Ward but it would be really cool if he was a symbol.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
:Hes dead a russian medic was seen trying to revive him but failed an started bashing his chest

Gaz... gone, .50 AE round to the face and you're done. Price... I doubt he'd be returning because let's face it he did die in COD4 and the Russian medic wouldn't have pounded his chest if he didn't die. As far as previous games go, Price was able to return because they didn't really have a tight storyline to them. But this Modern Warfare series does. So if Price returns, I think it'll be a bit ridiculous.
:I like that they Replaced Price with Soap but there is one thing i don't like about it.

No Glourious Mustache.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 01:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, but apparently Soap has a glorious Mohawk. And Price could be a good Zombie.

Even if Price lived through the end of COD4, do you really think he'd still fight?
:What reason would there be for him ''not'' to? Guys get wounded and go back to active duty all the time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The Voice Actor, Billy Murray, has been confirmed as having worked on the project, if that's worth anything.
:: Unfortunatly that could just end up being part of a flashback mission like in CoD 4. Here's hoping it's for a part of the main game.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

-Hes in the new trailer. Seriously, end of debate- k9870
::If you're on about the guy on the assault boat, all we see is a guy in a boonie from behind. I'm going to withhold judgement until the game actually comes out.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

At beginning of the Takedown level, Royce addresses "Bravo Six," Price's call sign from CoD4. Keep in mind that Captain Macmillan was Alpha Six, and that Soap's call sign is ''rumored'' to be Papa Six.
:: Except Bravo six was also Lt Vasquez's callsign. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
:: Except that Vasquez died in a nuclear explosion. Price's odds of survival are much better that someone who was nuked, crashed in a helicopter, and then exposed to radiation.
::: Hence my point, which is that the callsign is non-indicative. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 13:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I think everyone here just needs to except that Cpt. Price has returned and is immortal like many other great men with Facial hair (I.E Gordan Freeman, Solid Snake, Chewbacca)
:Actually chewbacca dies. Gets a moon crashing into him.-protoAuthor 05:22, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

it has been rumored that captain price (billy murray) will return as the commander of the 22 reg along with SSGT griggs (somehow) due to the fact we have been told (through the twitter page) that the voice actors have been paid record their voices but even then thiers nothing from stoping them from making another flashback mission with them

:Hence my original point. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:53, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

sorry ment to update that earlier CPT price is confirmed as retuning as the unit leader again after soap and roach break him out of a Russian prison (at that point price trys to kill roach but stops when he sees soap) the M1911 that you see on soap is the same as whats from MW1 which is returned to price then you can figure the rest out. end of story. regards scarec

The voice actor of SSGT. Griggs from the first MW, came back as the narrator of the SEALs in multiplayer. Same as Craig Fairbrass does as Ghost for all the Special Ops missions and for Task Force 141 on multiplayer.

:SEALs? Don't you mean Rangers? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

In Multiplayer, you have a different voice that announces the game for the Rangers. You would hear an american voice say "insert type of game", then he would say "Rangers lead the way". The voice of Griggs would say "insert type of game" then "let's do this", in mulitplayer, you can play middle easterns, Brazillians, russians, british, and Rangers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Note about Gaz, his voice actor reappears and is conveniently named Ghost, which would of course raise the question "The Ghost of whom?" Just a little thing I thought was funny.

:Nobody, it's a call sign. Gaz is dead and Ghost is not him in disguise. IW confirmed this. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:42, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

==General Observations==
Though I freely admit I got wood watching this trailer one thing I noticed is that the guys from ''Infinity Ward'' seemed to have recycled some scenery. When they showed the guys running through the alleyways of Rio I swear it reminded me of the alleyways of the Arab capital the Marines run through in [[Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare]].

:Not really. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

== The New pictures ==
Could someone tell me where did that picture of the american soldier with the M4 came from?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
:http://www.modernwarfare247.com/news/special-ops-characters --[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Jesus Christ, is the weapons section of that website all kinds of ed up. Thet called an FN-FAL a G3 and they called an AK-74 a AK-47. What the mother ? At least that means that we, IMFDB members, have the best website documenting weapons in Modern Warfare 2. But still, what the mother ?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Is all the cussing necessary but yes I do agree that this website is the most reliable.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Wow... that site has the MP5 listed as being 40. S&W [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]]

LoL that site is horrible... if you think that page is bad just jump into the forums... all kinds of gems in there... read the one about the Taurus Raging Bull. the guy says "goodluck reloading its four barrels" <- That had me laughing with the stupidity of that statement. - Furious Oyster

== TAR-21 or F2000? ==
[[Image:MW2TR6.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|A Brazilian Militia firing the unknown rifle, presumably a[[FN F2000#FN F2000 Tactical|FN F2000 Tactical]]]]
Isn't it a TAR-21 rather than a F2000?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:It's way too big to be a Tavor. Most likely an F2000.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah... the form is rather an F2000 too...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 08:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:My question is where the is the scope?-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 15:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::There is an version of the FN2000 that has the scope replaced with rails. I guess that's the one in the picture above.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Whats that under the F2000? Its too skinny to be an M203, I think its a shotugn--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 03:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Looks like an Remington 870.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
How the hell would they fit a shotgun/Masterkey on the three inches of forward rails that the F2000 has? More like a shotgun with an F2000 attachment, rather than the other way around.--[[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 18:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well it definetly looks to be a shotgun, however it's mounted on there.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

:I see it now. It is an F2000 with the shotgun attachment and the way the shotgun is attached makes the gun look retarded. They didn't make the SCAR's own grenade launcher attachment, so obviously they didn't do the F2000's attachment and worse, they didn't take off the removeable handguard and just put the M203 directly under the barrel, they had to slap it at the bottom of the damn thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I have heard however that the F2000s red dot sight in multiplayer is the standard F2000 optical sight, much like the TAR-21 uses the MARS sight in multiplayer as well, and the L86 uses the SUSAT in place of the ACOG. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::I've used F2000s with the standard scope in Special Ops and the L86 does indeed have a SUSAT (that thing is horrible, BTW) in place of the ACOG. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:37, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

::::It is man. The L86 has awful accuracy, almost no range, and once you get two or three rounds off, it's all over the place. For me, it's the HBAR amigo. I'll take thr ability to hit people over drum mags any day. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== MP7? Are you sure? ==

Where do you exactly see MP7?

I only see custom MP5 (or MP5k without foregrip) on the right and two copies of another unidentified weapons on the left.
They have curved magazines where MP7 has foregrip and their casing is completly different.
MP7 doesn't match...
[[User:Morihaus|Morihaus]] 17:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)Morihaus

I saw a picture of it yesterday and i cant remember where. and i think it was a russian behind a shield, but im not sure if i remember that correctly. but the MP7 is definitely here -Mandaloin

The MP7A1 is seen in the Reveal trailer in the hands of the Brazilian Secret Service agents fighting off an insurgent force from a crashed C-130-Kellers357

== FAL Please ==

I know one of the screenshots show's what appears to be an MD-2, but I still wanan see a FAL in MW2. I'm getting annoyed by G36Cs and M16s and G3KA4s in all these games. The FAL was a true combat rifle, and I do has want (sorry for net speak)--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 20:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: I absolutely agree with the above statement-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Me too but, the MD-2 is good enough for me. And it is Brazilian! That makes me proud of being Brazilian.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: I like the Imbel also, its a pretty solid gun-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Which Imbel? Imbel is the manufacturer.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Their FAL copy with the fixed stock (it's the only one I've held)-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Those are just called FN FALs.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:::The Imbel is great and all, but the FAL is a solid 7.62 rifle. Also, I noticed they're using the AUG A1, not A3 for MW2. I'm pleased with that as the original AUG model was always my favorite.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:08, 26 June
2009 (UTC)

== TDI "Kriss" ==
I know the Kriss is going to be hyped in MW2, as its a powerful .45 ACP SMG that has virtually no recoil and great accuracy. But the guys at IW won't let such a perfect gun into multiplayer, because it'll turn into a noob weapon fast. My bet's on that they purposely change one of it's stats to make it more balanced. Any guesses on what they'll take away from it? My bet is make it less powerful.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
:There IS recoil in the Kriss. Every gun has recoil.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
::True, but it varies what the recoil force actually ''does'' and how much of it the user feels; the recoil has to go somewhere, but it can be towards things like fighting the gun's own muzzle climb by shoving a weight downwards [as with the Kriss], stopping a barrel that's moving forwards [as with the XM307 / XM312], or quite a number of other things. The general idea is that the Kriss has very light felt recoil for its weight [less than half the weight of a Thompson] because of the novel operating system. And I imagine they'll either limit the magazine, turn it into a peashooter or make it horribly inaccurate. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 02:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Or Infinity Ward could make the Kriss a Kicking Rad gun that you will get when you reach the highest level. An all around gun.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 02:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
::::What about the Rate of Fire? i don't remember if the Kriss had a high R.O.F. or not
:::::From the Future Weapons video I watched on the Kriss, it seems to have an average MP5 like rate of fire. But if IW does let the Kriss go all out, it'll be revenge of the pwned when people get a hold of it. Take that noob tubers! Have some .45 slugs in the face!--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 16:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
::Hey man, the noob tube is awesome.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

::People who hates tubers are just gamers. Sure I get off when I get hit in the face by an M203, but hell, I use one too. It's a very good field weapon. In combat, there is no such thing as cheap shot. There's hit and miss. Even in games, if you killed a guy, it's a kill, doesn't matter how you did it, unless you used cheats, but I use the M203 all the time, and 2 shells is what you get in multiplayer, so quit complaining, those on the recieving end of my tube. Now the P90 was a widely used gun for noobs cause of it's high ROF and mag capacity and with the slight of hand perk, you can reload the faster than you could in real life[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
:::People who complain about tubes in modern games don't remember the days of real noob-tubes, back when the 203 was your alt fire, had realistically-sized splash and had a zero arming distance, and a newbie could easily end a game with a positive score just by firing it point-blank whenever they had more than one person in front of them. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 07:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree i just hate the loss of a perk its better than juggernaut.--[[User:Panther61DC08|Panther61DC08]] 20:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

::ANYTHING is better then juggernaut man. And yeah, I use the M203 from time to time, but people who use it constantly should really just go sit down.--[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Most online gamers are idiots who most likely don't know the difference between a bullet and a bolt carrier, so they're going to label anyone who kills them a [insert gun name here] noob. If you kill them with an M4, you're an M4 noob. If you kill them with a P90, you're a P90 noob. If you kill them with a shotgun, you're a shotgun noob. It never ends. The point of playing a game is to have fun, so I'm gonna use what I like to use (including the 203) regardless of what everyone else thinks about it. If I nail some tit in the face with a 40 mike-mike, they can whine and cry "noob tuber" all f'n day, it isn't going to change that I put a 40 mike-mike into their face. Only thing about me is that I can do it from a block away (an in-game block, I mean), rather than at point blank. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:I have a Class that it's specialty is to piss people off. Yes, i am a asshole. BUT, i am a professional asshole.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

:As far as the Kriss goes they sure as hell have never fired it (which disappoints me that they put all these exotic weapons in that they really havent touched... in COD4 they actually fired most of the weapons and that gave it a level of authenticity) so i dont think they'll pay attention to the fact that it takes most of the recoil for you. when you fire it youll probably be shooting all over the place with heavy recoil -Mandaloin

::Well looky here, an icon for picking up a "FAL Red Dot sight" In the Multiplayer trailer. There is a god, because the FN FAL has finally made it into an awesome game![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 05:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

The Kriss does seem to have a comparably short barrel to the UMP. IW could lower the damage due to the lower velocity? not sure what barrel length is ideal for .45ACP but I just thought that could be used as a reason to balance? that and the Kriss only uses the .45 Glock pistol mags correct? so maybe your attachment is an extended mag to help compete? -FuriousOyster

:From what we've seen, the Kriss in MW2 is already being used with the experimental 26 round magazine currently being developed for the gun. As for barrel length, it's on par with the UMP, plus its shorter overall. Who knows, maybe IW will just make the Kriss what it is in real life, a hard and precise hitting sub machine gun. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Apparently IW got the Kriss right on how controllable it is when firing on full auto. It doesn't go all over the place. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:The Vector is stunningly good. A bit down on power, but accurate and it can handle it's high ROF. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:Been unlocking the attachments for the Vector and it is kind of nerf on the power. It's really not the strong, but has a high rate of fire and accuracy [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

== HK416? ==

Possible HK416-

The SAS guy with the Mohawk & Glock @ 0:30 of the reveal trailer seems to carry something resembling an HK416 (Notice the rear H&K hallmark diopter sights...).
--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 15:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:Thats actually Soap. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

that is either the M4 or M468(most likely an M4)

Why would they add the HK 416? Internally it's far superior to the M4, but as far as video games go they're virtually the same.

I hope they don't. It's not that I necessarily hate the HK416 (well, okay, maybe I do ''a little bit''), but let's give LWRC's or Colt's gas pistons some love. The 416 and XM8 are way overused in shooters today. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:And the rear sight on Soap's M4 looks more like an ARMS #40L to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:Again, why do people think that when they see a cool looking AR15 in a game or a movie shot they RIGHT AWAY say, HK416 or M468 AKA REC7 as it is called now.? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::Because a lot of people are so fracking biased against DI guns that it's crazy. They're quick to tout the AK's widespread use as an example of its so-called "superiority", but that same argument means "absolutely nothing" to the same people when it's applied to the M4 and variants ''chosen'' by elite forces all over the planet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:34, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

yeah, i agree, it is ridiculous, especially since you can upgrade an m4 to perform exactly like any of the other new weapons and do it for a $1,000 cheaper. it makes you wonder why were even replacing the m4?
:Same reason the army bought a new grenade launcher: It's shiny and new. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Well you have to think about the old saying. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. But with weapon systems, they do get out dated and don't last forever. Eventually it's naturally to want to replace what you have now even though it's an effective piece of equipment that's served you for many years. Think back when the M16 was first introduced. It got so much crap from the old timers in the military that it took almost a decade to get it fielded. And now the M16 is a beloved icon of American power and loved by millions. Times change and so would weapons. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:55, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

==FN P90==
Why haven't anyone added the P90? It has been confirmed and in the E3 trailer there was a pickup icon for the P90 and it said "Press # to ick up P90"
:Did you miss [http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Modern_Warfare_2#FN_P90TR this?]-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

== Re-added ==
Hey evryone Activision has decided to re-add the Call of Duty prefix back to the Modern Warfare 2 title making the game now being called: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, instead of just Modern Warfare 2? Actvision added the Call of Duty prefix because of the lowered awareness of the Call of Duty series [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 17:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:So we're changing the name again on this site? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::The changing is not official yet. They're still calling the game "''Modern Warfare 2''" (source: [http://kotaku.com/5315981/infinity-ward-talks-modern-warfare-2-43-stories-up]). In fact, nobody at Activision or Infinty Ward ever called the game "''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2''", search any quotes you want. Also, the hardened and prestiges editions (collector versions) don't have "''Call of Duty''" on their boxes.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 14:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

i luv p-90 its awesome. i'v been playing modern warefare for one week now and what i did was i got bling pro(allows you to chose 2 perks) and i took a p-90 and put akimbo and rapid fire. its CRAZY. whenever your in close quarters with that combo, your invincibal.

-evilmidget25

ps il be online soon, its been three months and ill be back on chrismas

== Walther WA2000 ==
Does someone has an ingame picture of this game, because I doubt its presence in the game. And there is no use for a weapon to be listed if there is no proof.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 17:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
:I strongly concur with Phantom. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 17:16, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

"People, it's there in-game. Not in any of the missions I've seen, but I use it all the time in Spec-ops, Then gilly suited russians try to kill me with it when I play the chernobyl mission. there is a Frowny Face sticker on the inside of the scope cover. Very funny!" -Camden

Only a hundred-something were ever made. just saying [[SargeOverkill]]

== Behold, a really, really silly bundle: ==

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=219720

I can understand doing that for something like a ''Splinter Cell'' bundle (sorta), but... [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 08:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

:I'm so getting that... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

NVG's that max out to 50 feet, failll

:*facedesk* Behold, NVGs for less then 200 with a $70 game and art book, Who wants to bet those are made by a company who's name you can't pronounce and is based in a country that rhymes with Dina? Anyhow, I already pre-ordered the standard game, I don't need fancy art books and hard cases and crappy NVGs, I just want what may be the best FPS ever created, period. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
::I'm don't want the nod to use, I just want them as a bad-@$$ display for the living room. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:::And they actually function pretty well. I can make out the stop sign at the entrance to the complex I live in, and it's quite a bit further away than 50 feet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:13, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

== Cover Restoration ==
Does anyone have any unique or expensive software to put this image on the front page?

[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Cover.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Original]]
[[Image:Modern Warfare 2 Final.jpg|thumb|none|350px|The best I could do.]]

It's not the standard edition box.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 15:06, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

== SPAS-12? ==
Do you think this shotgun is a SPAS-12? Since we were shown that there is one in this level during a gameplay demo, it could be possible.
[[Image:MW2shotgunspa.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]

its a FAMAS- the folded bipod

:Nope, it's a WA2000

::The Walther WA2000 has a "skeletal" look to it and is a bolt-action sniper rifle. This image shows the weapon having a pump gauge at the bottom, meaning that it must be some sort of shotgun, as opposed to the WA2000's bolt-action. <s>Besides, I may be mistaken since I don't pay much attention to the FAMAS, but the last time I checked, the FAMAS didn't have a folding stock.</s> --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I didn't see that you meant "bipod", not "stock". I don't see the point in the FAMAS having one of those, either. --[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 04:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

It's not a shotgun, the "handgrip" is too long to be a pump like you were saying, i agree with the fact that it is a WA2000, it has the same front end and flash hider as the walther. By the way, the walther can be either semi or bolt action.

yeah i think its a Wa200 too, you can even see a fat ol' scope and a bipod on it. look real close for the scope.

Now that I think about it, it looks more of a WA200, if not a SPAS-12, and it is definitely not a FAMAS. And please, fellas, sign your edits. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 17:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

== Confirmed Weapons ==
Could someone tell me where those weapons were confirmed?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
:Which one?--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
::All of them. But if you can only confirm only one, then confirm the MD3.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
:::For the Imbel, I think it's almost sure. It has the look, it's Brazil... But it can still be a FAL... For the others like G36, Walter WA2000 or HK416, I will delete them until they provide us screenshots or other proofs that these weapons will be in the game. They think because modernwarfare247.com has listed them, it will be in the game but it's just a fansite, not an official one, and they don't have ingame screens to prove like us.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, the Imbel Makes sense to be in the game.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
::The forearm looks more like an Imbel than a FAL too.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 11:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Does this help on the FAL?
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Fal_online_vid.png
[[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]]
:HELL YES. Thank god there is a FAL in this. And, yes that helps on the FN FAL.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:53, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
::So, it's almost sure that the weapons carried by the brazilians are FAL? I don't think they will include two weapons pretty identical... Unless they changed the rate of fire on each weapon much like the M4/M16 AR.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:02, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
:It's the Imbel but Infinity Ward named it FN FAL. Like the AKMSU/AK-74S fuck up in Modern Warfare 1.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I think its the fal, it looks like it uses a bigger magazine therefore a bigger round, the MD 3 uses 223, the fal uses 308
::I noticed that too. It looks like a FN FAL with an 30 round magazine. But look at the Forearm. It looks like an MD-3 forearm to me.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
:::But it could be based on the DSA SA-58, which has a shorter fore end, and curved .308 mags do exist. Either way though, a FAL in Mw2 is win in my books. Infact, here's a nice picture that may help that theory, [url]http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg[/url] [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Terribly disappointed that the 1911 is not used in multiplayer - JanG

:Not just disappointing, it's a crime. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:54, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

==M4==

The M4 used in the game had been confirmed as a Bushmaster M4. According to one of the guys working on MW2 he has told in the Call of Duty wikia that the M4 is a Bushmaster M4.... Could someone add that??

:wheres the proof?

::As of now, nothing can be added to the main article since there are no sources or evidence that provide the actual facts. Do you happen to have a link of the official statement? I think what he means is that the M4 (when mounted with sights or scopes) looks like a Bushmaster ORC (Optics-Ready Carbine), since it's rear and front sights are already removed. But just because it looks like it doesn't mean it has to be a Bushmaster. And again, guys, please sign your edits. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The M4 IS a Bushmaster! And proof is right here on IMFDB! I took this from the pic of Soap and enlarged it.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm97/SpartanWarrior198/Soap_Bushmaster_M4.jpg

Snake logo on the mag well is Bushmaster's. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
:And I just noticed Soap is wearing US Army UCP, as well... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:So what? In this fictional universe, Bushmaster makes all the M4s? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

::Well, true, but this is a video game set in the near future. It could very well be possible that Bushmaster took over M4 production from Colt (since their exclusivity agreement expired back in June) in the Modern Warfare world.[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
::And I doubt IW would put two or more different identical "M4s" in the game. I can see an M4 and HK416 or REC7 put side-by-side in the game because there are some slight external differences (and caliber increase in the case of the REC7), but there'd be no point in having separate Colt and Bushmaster M4s, both virtually identical externally, at the same time. But then again the still above could very well be just promotional with a Bushmaster put in because it's all they had available to model. But we'll find out for sure Nov. 10th... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmm... Bushmaster may have used the Call of Duty franchise to advertise for their weapons, as seen on the lower receiver of the M4. Maybe likely, maybe not; but it is a possibility. Cheers, --{{User:Blemo/Sig}}
::::HK did it with R6, so why can't Bushmaster do it with MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:: Whats with all the reflex sights, they do that in way to many games, if you look at the weaponry issued to SOF in america, they all use Aimpoints, ACOGs or Eo-Tec's so why do game designers feel the need to put in Reflex. every SWAT department in america has EO-Tecs on their M4s not a reflex sight.

==Winchester 1887==

No way this is a winchester 1887, you have to out of your mind to think that.
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:MW2Winch1887.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Winchester1887shotgun.jpg

yeah dude there's one in there, it must be like a cheat code to get it but there is a picture.

I dought you need a cheat code to get it as the enemy you can kill and take their weapons have it.
Also it could be the Chinese copy.
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

There was a ''Public Ennemies'' version of the weapon which was closer to the one in the screenshot, but it has been deleted.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 22:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

:I think it would be peculiar to have the old lever shotgun in MW2, but definitely a cool choice of gun. It may not be the fastest or most powerful, but it has nostalgia and cool to it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

It could be like the Stg-44 from COD4, a retro weapon.
It was called MP44 in Cod4 not Stg-44 that was in W@W just trying to help. -FuriousOyste
: The MP44/StG-44 was only in CoD4 as a nod to the other games in the franchise which are all set during WW2. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you can unlock Price's mustache as a nod to his awesomely awesome mustache from MW1? =D -FuriousOyster

Since IW seem to be going along the "fun" route while still sticking to a semi-realism point of view, it's probably safe to assume this was added as a "fun gun". It's likely with the recent videos of the "Flag Runner" and the addition of throwing knives there adding weapons that no serious soldier would use in direct combat but would be awesome to use a video game multiplayer match. It's possible they added it as a reference to Terminator 2, I wonder if they'll add the M79 and a portable minigun... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:11, 02 September 2009 (UTC)
:There should be two reload animations. The first one you reload normally but in the second one you reload like the T-600, With one goddamm hand.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

::That was only chambering fresh rounds, not reloading it, but I see your poit. Either way though, having an old school lever action shotty will surely make things, uh, interesting? And throwing knives will just attract goddamn ninjas. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 01:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

:::Ninjas that I'll gladly lay waste to in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::::Amen to that man, they can throw all the knives they want, but that won't stop them from taking a burst of FAL rounds in the chest. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Good luck getting a burst out of your FAL --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 05:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

:"Those who live by the sword get shot by the ones who don't". Ninja's were cowards anyways. They retreated rather than fought most of the time-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:05, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

::Not to mention that was against bows and arrows, not automatic rifles. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

for the reload animations I think the shells are being loaded in to the barrel!!

:No my friend, thats just how you load a lever shotgun. The tube you load the shells in to is the magazine, and the tube below it is where they eject from when you cock the gun after a shot. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Don't debate on the articles ==

Stop debating on the page do it in here that's what it is for.
--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 23:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

:I am confused you say not to debate here but then you say to debate here. I am new to this.
::Jake, can you speak english?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::I mean don't debate on the main page with the articles it clutters it.--[[User:Jake zergling|Jake zergling]] 05:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::What Jake means, is that to hold all disputes, comments, and debates on the discussion (talk) page, instead of the article itself. The page you are looking at is the talk page and you should type any comments on this page. If you look at the top, there are seven tabs (varies on your status and monobook of the wiki), but for more users, it says, "page, discussion, edit, +, history, move, & watch". Make sure the "discussion" tab is pressed before you make your edit. Typing in the tab that says "page" makes the article look unprofessional and a hassle to read. Cheers, --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::I'll move all the discussion here...--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 13:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

== Glock ==
The GameTrailers Analysis states that it is a [[Glock#Glock 22|Glock 22]], but this is unconfirmed. It could be a [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] since in the video demo shown at the E3 conference, it fires fully automatically.
[[Image:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|[[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]] - 9x19mm. This model has compensator cuts on the slide and barrel to reduce muzzle climb while firing]]
[[Image:MW2Glock.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A [[Glock]] fired by "Roach" on a snowmobile in Mission "Cliffhangar". Note olive-drab frame.]]
[[Image:MW2SpOpGlock.jpg|thumb|none|300px|This US special ops has a olive-drab framed Glock in his thigh holster (barely off-shot).]]

*An interesting note is that the Glock fires dramatically slower than a Glock 18 or other converted Glocks. The Glock from the video's rate of fire is only around 600-700 RPM, where as a real Automatic Glock fires around 1100+ RPM -- Mythekal

:The guy COULD just be firing in semi VERY fast so that it seems like it's full auto. A lot of the handguns in COD4 if you tap the trigger in quick successions, it seems almost full auto [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

::Who ever put the screenshot on the page forgot to remind that the frame color is (tan) "Olive Drab". Glock 18's did not have this color available. Glock 22's just came out with this color somewhere in 2008. Of course I still wouldn't rule out it could be a Glock 18 with a replaced frame. But the writers probably wanted to put a new FBI (.40S&W) caliber into their Video Game arsenal.

:::Not to disagree with you, I mean, you strike a really good point, but I've seen video game companies butcher their weapons into having colors or functions that they don't even have in the first place. Perhaps this is the case, although highly unlikely. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 17:08, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Not sure if anybody noticed, but the G18s in game does not have a selector switch - JanG

The Glock 18 can come with OD frames http://www.teamglock.com/Glock-Buyers-Guide/Glock-18.htm

== H&K USP .45 ==
Shown in a stage demo for GameSpot, Roach wields it with a knife at the same time. There is a similar technique where you do this with a flashlight. If someone would care to name it please do as I forgot for the moment.

*Take your pick from CQC, CQB, Combatives or Defendu. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
** The particular technique shown below with the support arm under the wrist of the main arm indexing the flashlight along the axis of the barrel is called the Harris Method. In this case it's being done with a knife presumably because it looks cool.
*** It's actually done for CQC and not just cause it looks cool. A similar method to this is what Snake does on MGS.But he holds the Knife with the gun by the grips.Perhaps the Harries method is more comfortable than Snake's CQC method,so they made it that way.
****
[[Image:HK-USP.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch USP .45 ACP. Note the slightly longer barrel/slide and grip compared to the 9mm and .40 S&W models above.]]
[[Image:USP_with_knife.JPG|thumb|none|400px|]]

== Akimbo ==

*Need some confirmation on this as I cant find any videos or images of this, supposedly the player is now able to Dual wield or go Akimbo with Pistols, particularly twin desert eagles were seen in a demonstration during a show off session to fans.

This is one of the websites with this article:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/08/27/modern-warfare-2-has-guns-akimbo/1

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]

:There was a screenshot of the Desert Eagle being held akimbo during a gameshow in Vegas (the name of which I forgot...) I'm not sure if it was already added to the article, but I'll take a look. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 04:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

:Now Akimbo? I'm having less and less faith in this new game with most of these cliche shit added on. We got too many kinds of new guns enough to put Rainbow Six to shame, odd matches for people and prototype guns in wide use. This game went from pretty cool to up down cliche generic shooter. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

== Leaked Video ==

Found this video while searching the net on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FuwFT4p5hA

At 1:28 there appears to be a new weapon, it looks like it says "Shotgun" but the video is low qaulity and I'm having a hard time finding out what it is? The icon image looks similar to that of a Saiga shotgun but I'm not sure. From the looks of it, the IMI Mini Uzi will be making a return.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]

[[Image:Mw2brazilshotgun.png]] I think it says (litterally) "FAL w/ Shotgun"... Shotgun attachment?!--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 18:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

MASTERKEY! that would be awesome! on the other hand... COD4 shotguns were pretty pointless. so I doubt an even shorter barreled one would be worth it.

:Yeah, there have been rumors of an under-slung shotgun attachment. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 04:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

::That does surely say FAL with Shotgun, as it matches the shape of the other FAL seen in a trailer, sweet! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 22:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

also confirmed in game masterkey is avalible -scarecrow

== Continuity Error(??) ==

Perhaps, in the E3 Gameplay video, the Infinity Ward boyz made a continuity error. If you will, note that Roach is first seen using a USP .45, but later, on the snowmobile, he switches to a Glock 18/22/whatever. Just a thought.

:Doubt it. games arn't that sloppy. Its probably given to you when you board the snowmobile because firing a semiautomatic weapon while you are going pretty fast wouldn't help much unless you have a very steady hand. better to have a wide spread than accuracy when you cant predict the enemy that well. [[user:5t3v0|5t3v0]]

::Well apparently you are able to equip 3 weapons?, but that still wouldn't explain how he got that glock.

:::What 5t3v0 says is true. Video game developers aren't that sloppy and I think that the publishers purposefully made this so-called "continuity error". I think that the Glock is for use only for the snowmobile portion of the mission, since its high rate of fire (compared to the HK USP .45) is more ideal for tracking and shooting fast-moving vehicles. Many other video games during their vehicle missions use the same logic (i.e. a mounted machine gun on the snowmobile in [[007: Nightfire]]). --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 04:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

::::There's one on each of the snowmobiles, There's a holster somewhere.

Okay first of all, i know you know its just a game, so thats my first statement, and my second is, who says you cant have another holster on you, one on your thigh, one on your rig, or two on both your thighs? and then you either have access to it in the game or you dont, and we can all pretend like roach just doesnt want to use it until the snowmobile thing or something like that.

== New mw video ==

Gentlemen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4PMRFkx07g

Damn, the MP5K Looks SWEET! And throwing knives? kick-ass!!! man as soon as this is released im disowning my copy of COD4.

== Double Barrel Shotty ==

According to the guys over at the COD Wiki, the Double barrel shotgun will make a return(from COD5), has anyone else seen this?

* It's possible with the inclusion of other "fun" weapons like the Winchester M1887 and Throwing knives, but I'm not going to get my hopes up about it... [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:18, 02 September 2009 (UTC)

:Try not to include wiki as a source unless there's pics of the actual shotgun ingame. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:41, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

::The OXM stated that (Official Xbox Magazine). The DB shotgun will have separate trigger for each barrel.--[[User:PhantomT1412|PhantomT1412]] 20:44, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

:::You said it will make a return, it never was in cod4, or are you referring to cod5? --[[User:Final Tsurugi|Final Tsurugi]] 15:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

::::Sorry, shouldve been a little clearer, i was referring to cod5

== Mk14 Rifle ==

The Mk14 on the screenshot is not a Mk14 Mod0 battle rifle but a Mk14 Mod1 ([http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/albums/closeup/Mk_14_Mod_1.jpg]), the second modification. Still based on the M14/M1A battle rifle/semi-auto rifle, but using M4 grip and stock with the EBR chassis. The version used by soaped also seems to sport a Magpul MOE stock with cheek rest.

Now that I see that new picture on the page with the mk14 in it I think that it is also a mod 1. Who else is thinks so?[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== Highrise Gameplay videos (Cam) ==

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/modern-warfare-2/11043

Just saw this today, the "trailer" section also has a trailer cam of a predator missile and a supply drop, it also shows off the UMP45.

The newer highrise videos show a few weapons in the game that would now be deemed confirmed to a degree. It's labelled 1 through 5 in parts. They all feature different guns, I remember seeing two icons, one which was thought to be a place holder, the L85 was displayed as the L86 LSW (maybe an attachment for the L85?) including a PP-2000 Akimbo. Other's include various MG's which I can't identify, a SPAS-12 shotgun in full view (with appropriate icon) and the FAMAS and UMP.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

:The videos from Gametrailers also seem to show a silenced SPAS 12, which should be fun.

[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 15:14, 16 September 2009

== New video confirms a few weapons==

A few weapons are probably confirmed by this video from Screwattack, PP-2000 amongst them.
http://www.screwattack.com/Events/MW2HandsOn
[[User:DAnnysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 14:39, 16 September 2009

:Just from watching, I saw the FAMAS, RPD, M4, SCAR, PP2000, AT4 (now a weapon not a perk, and more.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
00:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

everything in the game is now content locked. that means any weapon seen will be in the final game

happy hunting

Seems like the best place to write this:
There actually is an M249 in the game. In the last level in D.C., when you come out into the fighting in front of the White House and Sgt. Foley talks to some colonel or someone, if you walk all the way to the left there is a dead Ranger with an M249 mounted on the limb of a fallen-over tree. It's a mounted MG that cannot be moved and it does not overheat. It is definitely a M249.

==Zombie Mode==

Any idea if theyll have one?

No they wont. Instead they have a spec-ops mode. Besides, its not cool of Infinity ward to copy treyarchs thing. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]

Yeah, especially when Treyarch has made an entire career out of copying Infinity Ward

== Create A Class Menu ==

Several weapons,perks, and attachments have now been confirmed in a new video's on youtube including [[Glock#Glock 18|Glock 18]], [[PP-2000]], [[M79 grenade launcher]], [[Cheyenne Tactical M-200 Intervention]], [[RPD light machine gun]], [[Franchi SPAS-12]] and much more.

Source: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51MZPJ-Rd0], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNCCkvV77s]

[[Image:CreateAClass.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Create a Class Menu.]]

== Infamy (New Trailer) ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8toHfZm6jNE

The Guy in the Airport wearing a black suit (presumably this Makarov character) looks like he was carrying a SCAR-L but then I noticed the RIS rails to which it was just a regular M4. It was weird how they made look very similar to the SCAR-L, yet at 1:31 in the Infamy trailer there's a guy with outline of the SCAR-L. It looks like the "Mini-Uzi" is now confirmed to be apart of the machine pistol lineup of weapons. Also does anyone think the AK at 0:57 looks odd? Kinda looks to me like a AN-94. - [[Draco122|Draco122]] 07:07 05 October 2009

*The weapon Makarov was holding looked like an M4 to me, but I think your right about the Mini-Uzi being a machine pistol now. And as for the AK it looked like the rest of the AKs I've seen from ingame pictures and footage. [[User:Rock and Metal|Rock and Metal]] 20:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

:The guy is holding an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The Russian tactical team that responded to the airport attack were referred by Makarov as FSBs. Even though they did deploy from SWAT vans marked as FSB, the Russian soldiers actually wear MVD uniforms, meaning that they were actually interior troops.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 18:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Wall of guns ==

Just got this off of Gametrailers TV. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

[[Image:MW2wallofguns.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
*Too late, man.)

== Sentry Gun ==

On Gamesrader.com, an article on the impressions of MW2, mentions a Sentry Gun in the Kill Streak list. After doing some research, I've found a supposed concept of the Sentry Gun on Modernwarfare247.com. Apparently it seems to be the XM312 .50Cal fitted with a Camera. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 09:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

[[Image:Leaked-mw2-art-book-12.jpg|300px|thumb|none|XM312]]

maybe its a .50BMG on a CROWS-type system

:The Sentry Gun in the game is an M134 on a tripod, as I've used some in MP. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Screenshot==

The first two are Scars, the second has a Masterkey, the third with an ACOG doesnt quite look right, and I cant tell what the digital one is, any help?

[[Image:Mw2scars.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

The two on the right might be ACR's--[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 03:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The digital one is the bushmaster ACR. It looks a little funny but that is it.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

== W2000 ==

I'm not 100% certain on this, but isn't the W2000 a collector's sniper rifle? I mean this is a rather expensive sniper rifle made as a colector's rifle. So why would the military be using it in whatever war this game takes place in?

And we're supposed to know the thought process behind Infinity Ward's weapon decisions how?

Remember the game black where w2000s were just laying all over eastern europe?

:Yeah, ever since Black came out, WA2000s have been known to be laying all across Europe, ripe for the picking! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 23:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Haha Agent 47 spends thousands of dollars just to maintain one yet European armies can buy millions of them just to lay around randomly :P

From my play through, I can only find one. The one you see on the wall of guns picture.

I've seen them in several missions. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== Unfocused ==

This game is looking more and more gimmicky by the day. It's as if they're going all out to jam as much modern technology into the game as possible, whether it makes sense or not. Brazilian militia with FN F2000 assault rifles? Russian terrorists with the TDI Vector? ''Really''? --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 08:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's true that I feel the game is adding so much new stuff it won't be anything like CoD4. It bothers me that Infinity Ward is going over the top just because of its huge fanbase.
[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

For those of you who have seen "Lord of War", remember Nicolas Cage's quote: "Where there's a will, there's a weapon." I'm sure that their theory for the MW2 universe is that some FN or TDI salesmen forgot who they were working for, and sold their latest & greatest weapons to the bad guys, and got paid more in a day or two than they would earn working for a decade. I believe that money is the most corrupting force on Earth. Also, I do recall a story about some F2000s winding up in the hands of a militia in East Timor a few years ago, and I'm not sure whether or not FN figured out how they got there. -KLR
:I've heard of this happening with a custom M14 maker. One of their people was rebuilding some MK14Mod0 on the side and smuggling them to the phillipines if i rememger correctly. The man was caught and is spending a long vacation is club fed. --[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

As much as I agree that the weapons are going a little crazy (how the hell do Brazilians in the slums of Rio get their hands on such powerful NATO weaponry?), remember this game isn't set in the present day, its sometime in 2016 I think. So who knows, in that year the rarer weapons of today may be more widely available. Unlikely I know, but possible. [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 10:45, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:And besides, the game would be very boring if everyone had AK's. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::Not exactly. Im not liking the whole high end weapons idea for militia. I would have been fine seeing militia using ak variants and other common battle rifles. --[[User:mythekal|mythekal]]

You must remember that all gangs in Rio get majority of there weapons from buying over seas and from corrupt military and police units, who themselves have stockpiles of powerful NATO weapons (M4s, AKs, FNs,etc.). And the Brazilian militia's leader is an Arms Dealer who has ties with the Ultranationalists, any Arms dealer that big can afford to give his men some much more flashier weapons! Also this is just a game too! --[[User:Choi117|Choi117]]

:In the first game the russians had g36cs, ak-47s, m9s and 1911s, not like, ak-74s and makarovs. In this they seem to have gone to just having tacticool bullpups and high-end everything.....I laugh if you pick p an m9 in brazil even though your infinitely more likely to get a taurus pt92.

One aspect of Modern Warfare 2 is notably the fact, that although not identified by developers, is the way in which the worlds runs, MONEY!, believe it or not but the American government has been dealing arms for years, all to up there pay check, the result is quite devastating, its give there own troops a disadvantage but what do they care money's, money, they would give nuclear weapons to iraq if there was enough money.

:Actually, the American government deals arms mainly to friendly nations and used to deal arms to CIA backed insurgencies. So, you know, they wouldn't be selling things like NUKES you moron. As far as the purchase of these weapons, just consider Mexico today: You have a 'military' (if you can really call the Mexican Army a military) where 250,000 soldiers have left to work for a drug cartel or just left the country, leaving their rifles with the cartels. Then you have those same cartels buying firearms from third world SA countries that were provided firearms by the US for insurgencies. Then you have cartels buying firearms from people very similar to Cage's character in Lord of War. In 2016, it's more than believable taht those dealers could be selling ill-gotten FN2000's to wherever they damn well please.

::I think that they are adding all of these guns because after Zakheav died the ultranationalists kinda fell apart and now they use anything they get their hands on so some of their guys probably decided too buy their own guns and thought they might as weel go big.

If you think this game is unfocused you haven't seen the 25 kill streak perk yet! A Freaking Tactical Nuke, I'm not joking: http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/modern-warfare-2-25th-killstreak/333858[[User:Draco122|Draco122]]
:That idea makes the game sound more ridiculous than it already is. This is way over the top now.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]

Can someone explain what "in egoview" means? pictures have the caption something like "the SPAS-12 in egoview " somethign like that. Is it suposed to mean first-person view, only written by someone with poor english?
:Presumably it refers to First-Person view. If you look, all the HUD text in those shots is in German. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

This is interesting discussion, but I have to say I think you guys are missing the point a bit. I'll cede the points about modern weapons being more proliferated in the CoD universe, and the one about the criminal factions (Militia, Ultranationalists) having large financial reserves, since this is fiction that's entirely possible. But, even if a criminal organization did have vast resources of cash, I'm sure they could find more important things to spend money on than outfitting their dime-a-dozen armed thugs with modern NATO assault rifles when they could just buy a bunch of AKs for a quarter of the price and be done with it, immensely simplifying training and logistics in the process. After all, what can a poorly trained, militia thug do with an FN2000 that they can't do with an AK-74? I guess my point is that the many iffy decisions made about the weapons in this game represent, to me, the entire ethos behind this series:''"Screw "logic" and "realism", let's just focus on making everything '''totally f**ing awesome''' ohlookanexplosion!"''

I guess I can't fault them, really, since this kind of attitude is right in line with the ''attention-deficit teenage douchebag'' demographic they're catering to nowadays. It just irritates me because it's basically the complete opposite of what I'm looking for in a war game, and I get all the more irritated every time I run into one of the aforementioned douchebags, fresh from playing this game, who thinks he's now some kind of authority on firearms. IW could be so much better if they wanted to. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 21:53, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

:Dead on the money Matt. What gets me is, a lot of criminal organizations NOW have, ahem, LARGE sums of money and cash. Hell, it's not like the Mafia or Russian Organized Crime are exactly "poor" organizations, but does anyone here think the average Mafioso or ROC thug is packing an FN2000, or a tricked out M4, or an AUG, etc? Hell, even a lot of the militant Islamic extremist groups are extremely well funded, yet, they're still packing AKs and RPGs. [[User:DKS01|DKS01]] 12:48, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you so much, Matt. Over Christmas break I visited my 16-year-old cousin who was just cleared by his father to play M-rated games. Guess which game he bought the minute he got this newfound freedom? Now he's trying to tell me how combat is really like the game and that "the Intervention is arguably the best firearm ever made." He also tried to argue when I told him it was really called a Cheytac M200. My god this game really turned out to bother me deeply. But joke's on me, I went out and bought it myself. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:06, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

== M21 EBR ==

Just to make sure no one changes it back. Even though it doesn't technically exist, that is what its called in game. The logic behind the name is: M21 (Sniperized M14) + M14 EBR (Modernized M14) = Modernized Sniperized M14 = M21 EBR

Alright, to be blunt, I LOVE the M14. Whenever I used one in Call of Duty 4, it was like the second coming of Jesus Christ. I just got done reading that the M14 used in this game is, as said above, a M21 EBR, and is classified as a sniper rifle. When I found that out I was extremely pissed. What I don't get though, is that in the Breach and Clear video that is out there, there is clearly a Mk. 14, with open iron sights. Based on all of this bullcrap, it appears that you will not be able to use the M14/Mk.14 EBR/M21 EBR/or-whatever-the-heck-we-are-calling-it without a scope. I am aware that MW2 is somehow sneaking out into people's Xbox's already, and I would greatly appreciate if someone could elaborate on this?[[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 00:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:Putting a scope on a Mark 14 doesn't change its designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:52, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Been checking with various sources on M14's and this M21 EBR is just an M14 fitted into a Sage Stock. it's nothing more than the numerous M14's I've seen used as a DMR.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 17:35, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
:I say we just stick with calling it Mark 14 Mod 1 and note in the description that its in-game name is M21 EBR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
:And, while I've not yet played MP, every instance of Mark 14 use in SP refers to it as "M14 EBR". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:03, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::It's officially called the M21 EBR in MP. However a friend of mine tells me when fitted with an ACOG it makes for an alright assault type rifle. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::Still a Mark 14 as far as this site is concerned. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::::And what pisses me off the most is that besides the scope and smaller magazine. it's a Mark 14 EBR. Why IW decided to turn it into a sniper is beyond me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::::I'd imagine they did it for balance, can't have a sniper rifle with a 20 shot magazine. Unless you get extended mags then maybe it might be better I dont know [[Draco122|Draco122]]

::::::I don't see how that's supposed to balance anything. 20 round magazine or not, a sniper rifle is still a sniper rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:::::::How much of a bump does extended mags do for the EBR anyhow? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::::::::I haven't gotten them yet myself, but I'll let you know when I do. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:06, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::You get a whole whopping 5 extra rounds. 15 round magazines. Yeah... [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 02:36, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::I've now heard rumors that in the spring DLC (mostly spec ops stuff) They're bringing back the G36C, The Skorpion, one of the sniper rifles, and the M14 will be back to an AR. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::::::::::I'm so sick of the G36C! Everywhere I got, everybody wants to have babies with a G36C! Let's have an HK53 instead this time, or a Mark 12 SPR. A Mark 12 Mod 1 SPR would be a fun. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::::It would be cool, but it would be VERY redundant to the M14 EBR, not that the G36C wouldn't be either, but all the snipers are almost exactly the same (look up the real stats, the ones in game arent right), I think adding any new sniper would be kinda dumb. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:54, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

(Moved from the M14 EBR section of the main page by [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]])
*The reason it has been labeled as the M21EBR is because it has been modified into a sniper rifle. The modification of any M14 into a sniper rifle changes it's classification to an M21.--[[User:Dethshadow170|Dethshadow170]] 22:47, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
** No, it just makes it an M14 with a scope. Case in point is the USMC issue M14 DMR. Fits the criteria of "M14 converted to sniper rifle", but still called an M14, not an M21. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:08, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
**Besides, just adding a scope to a gun doesn't change what gun it is. An M21 is not just an M14 with a scope as the Mk12 SPR/SAM-R/SDM-R is not just an M16 with a scope.--[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 21:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
*** By "modified into a sniper rifle" I was implying that it's full auto fire setting was disabled, plus the addition of the scope, bipod, etc.--[[User:Dethshadow170|Dethshadow170]] 22:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
****Actually, the majority of M14s left in the government arsenals were converted to semi-auto only fire early in their careers, because when it is fired in fully automatic, to quite one of the foremost arms experts Dr. Atwater, after the third round fired in full-auto, the M14 "becomes an anti-aircraft gun". You will occassionally see one M14 that lucked out of this modification (and I am sure that all of the ones the SEALs maintain in their own armories managed to escape it as well), but it is just not so effiecient when issued to everyday soldiers and is a recipe for a very powerful but also very inaccurate general issue rifle.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 17:01, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

== Two new videos ==
This is the level you get for beating the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhjh8KxFPkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czJEO8skB64

Damn good videos, I'll have a lot of fun with that museum :D Does this mean theres not going to be any semi-auto assualt rifles? Everything seems to be full auto in those videos...:( [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]] 19:38, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

in the video description it says that the person playing was using rapid fire.

They likely removed the use of the G3 and M14 from Multiplayer due to people using the modified controllers to enable rapid firing, though I remember seeing that "Rapid Fire" was being made as an Attachment for weapons, not something I'd imagine seeing in singleplayer [[Draco122|Draco122]]

:An added note about the "Museum" level is a button on the front desk. Press it and all the soldiers in the exhibits come alive and try to kill you! Good fun if you stock up from the weapons cases first. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Wow, Dual wielding all subguns?==

watched video of dual mp5ks and p90s........wtf is wrong here?

Where is this video?

:Even worse, I heard it was possible to dual wield shotguns. [citation needed] Yeah, ordinarily I wouldn't just put that out there without a source, but given all the other stupid decisions IW have been making lately, I can believe it. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 01:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

you dual wield sawn off doubles, its showed in museum gameplay.

:Wouldn't firing a sawed off one handed dislocate your shoulder?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily, but that doesn’t mean it is the smartest way to shoot a firearm. --[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 05:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

You know what this means, every noob on the planet will be duel wielding in MW2 like it's Halo 3 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:23, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Meh, who cares? Yeah, I think dual wielding is an action movie cliche, too, but I'll just play the game the way I want and everyone else will do the same. It most likely won't be long until people are whining and crying about "dual wield noobs" like they do about so-called "noob-tubers". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, i use a noob tube on one of my classes myself, it may piss people off, but snipers piss me off. Besides, its not like the noob toob is good in close quarters, it only holds two rounds and has slow ass reloads. I use mine to countersnipe when they try and hide behind cover.

:I only use noob tube when coming up against a map with lots of trenches or caves or buildings, the better to lob nades into. I prefer the ACOG in MW2, as now it doesn't suck like in CoD: 4 [[Special:Contributions/142.166.195.174|142.166.195.174]] 18:08, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Anyone who cries about what weapons, perks, or attachments another player is using needs to either learn how to adapt to the environment and opposition or quite playing multi-player altogether. "ZOMG! He killed me with a grenade launcher! Not fair! Waaah waaah waaah!" Some people just need to grow the feck up and stop being pansies. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:49, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. the M203 is a useful tool. so are shotguns, i was sick of hearing "SHOTGUN NOOB!" after the first time i heard it. now this is just an opinion but when indoors and within the effective range, i dont think theres a better weapon. they provide a large spread pattern that can be useful in high stress situations. im not saying you dont have to aim a shotgun at close range, but neutralizing a threat can be easier with with buckshot (defense loads) than with a single slug from a pistol or rifle. in my opinion there is no "noob" weapon. when they are all used properly, each individual weapon serves a specific purpose. cheap tactics is what makes a bad player in my eyes. someone who uses a high capacity weapon (P90, Light Machine Gun) while sitting in one spot picking off players who are trying to have fun and play "right" just ruins the expirience for everyone else. and in my expirience these "campers" are the ones who cry like babies when THEY get dead at the hands of a P90 or shotgun. but thats just my opinion.--[[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] 17:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't particularly think ''any'' tactic is cheap (nor any weapon a "noob" weapon), no matter how "unfair" an advantage one thinks it gives. Some tactics are just simply more successful than others. The fact is that MW2 is a '''war''' game, and so goes the old saying ''all's fair in love and war''. If a machine gun camper kills me, so what? I'll just respawn and continue with the game. But that's the point, it's a ''game''. Some people take games way too seriously. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

:For me, my response to ppl calling others and me campers or sniper whore, noob tuber. I just reply "It's a legitimate strategy". Don't get mad, get EVEN. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:50, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

::Totally agree. I mean, I could possibly be wrong, but isn't "camping" essentially what snipers and machine gunners ''actually do'' in real life? I know it was last time I checked... And I sure as heck wouldn't want an M40A5 to clear a room with. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:07, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::As for dual-wielding, well some of it is logical. The P90 is designed to be easy to fire single handed, so in theory it could be dual-wielded, reloading would be impossible without slings though. As for the Mini-Uzis, c'mon guys, they're Uzis, how else do you Uze them? The Vector too could work, as the fancy anti-recoil system would help it. But with the UMP, I think you'd be in trouble. .45 ACP without anything to control recoil equals you not hitting jack all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::::The ''proper'' way is how else to use a Mini Uzi. One hand holding the pistol grip, the other tightly grasping the fore-end for maximum control, and aiming properly down the sights. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:21, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

:::::I think it was a joke, I mean, how many people do you see firing one properly ;) Also, I think most strategys are legitimate, not that I camp, I don't. I just hate it when people use something for what its not meant for because its "good" (usually means easy to use), camping (kinda) with a snipers fine, or even an LMG as long as you're giving covering fire, but things that piss me off are sitting in a corner with a heartbeat sensor and waiting for people, using akimbo 1887's, using M16 Red Dot Sights, using Hardline, or using Commando. I think thats most of them... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:54, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

::::::I'll give you camping in a corner with a heartbeat sensor, but what's wrong with M16s with red dot sights? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:18, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

:::::::Well, nothing really in this game, it was overpowered in COD4 cause it could out-snipe people with snipers half the time, but come to think of it it's okay now, it just says something about the person is all, to me at least, same reason I don't like Hardline. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:08, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

::::::::"I like an effective weapon" is the only thing it would say in my POV, but then again the majority of CoD MP players are a pretty whiny crowd. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

== RIOT SHIELD ==

Just played the game and i have to admit the riot shield is the most fun weapon to use in multi-player. Bashing enemies to death is extremely gratifying. - JanG

i love when people use it, theyre easier to kill. Especially with the knife. If you are anywhere but directly in front of them they cant block it.

-k9870

That, sticky grenades, and powerful caliber fmj weapons are the only thing that can break through the shield - JanG

:A WELL AIMED grenade from an M203 would take a guy with a shield out[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

::Unless the guy has a Blast Shield (explosive resistant face mask) equipped, he won't die unless it's a direct impact from a 40mm. He'll even survive sticky grenades on his shield. I've survived plenty with a Blast Shield on when I've got a Riot Shield. Half the time though, after a hit with a 40mm I'm near death anyway even with a Blast Shield on and usually the guy still has a second shot [[Draco122|Draco122]] 17:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Hitting the shield with a 40mm won't kill the guy, the trick is to hit just behind or under him, launching his ass into the air. also FMJs work well, as do Semtex grenades. I myself use Marathon, Lightweight and Commando with my Riot Shield, as well as blast shield and an AA-12 for sticky situations. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Semi Auto only FAL==
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:39, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:The only Thing I could think to defend it is in The Falklands War both the UK and Argentina used the FAL. Which the UK used their L1A1 in single fire only, the Argentinian Army had theirs on Automatic, which Military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun. I've never fired one, but in the game I like the controlled fire of the FAL, of it would just fire like another AK.-Km314
:But it shoots way too slowly ingame to be of much use. They should have made it shoot in bursts of 2-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
::From what I experienced in Multiplayer, it's powerful, it would be way to powerful if it was full auto, I think Infinity ward was going for a thing like they did in CoD4 with the G3. 1:21, 13 November 2009

I think they purposely brought down single fire rate to keep people from using modded controllers too. The g3 would fire as fast as you pulled the trigger, and anyone with a modded controller had an unfair advantage. The FAL is a true single shot, mods or not. I like it.

To whoever said "military experts have said that after the third shot makes in an Anti-Aircraft gun", I believe one person on the Military Channel does not count as "military expert'''S'''
Just look at this guy: he's not shooting down any planes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1q8GiSIdc

Are you a damned bloody fool??? Not every shooter out there is a cocked diesel motherfucker like him. Seriously, if you're that much of a damned idiot, DON'T POST.

If anything, the FAL with an ACOG makes a great DMR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

:I dunno whats with all the fuss, I love the FAL in MW2. Sure auto would have been fun, but it's hugely accurate and powerful, not to mention long ranged. A Holo sight makes it a perfect AR, and an ACOG pretty much makes it competition for the EBR. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

But I think I wish it's like in Rainbow Six where you can switch firing modes. The first 2 Call of Duty games did that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

:Yeah, and I sort of expected firing mode switches in MW2, but I guess not. But really, the FAL would be ridiculous on full-auto man. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Which is weird cause the SCAR-H fires the same round as the FAL and that is full auto [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

I believe that the americans found a simmilar problem with full auto 7.62 when they developed the M14 series. at a guess the SCAR-H and other similar weapons systems, such as the HK417, are more controlable due to modern knowledge about controling the recoil force, which was not available when the FAL was developed back in the 1950's. [[User:phaserrifle|phaserrifle]]

== Tacticool-ness ==
Well, this game is awesome and all, but i hate the fact that they made it to be a HALO knock-off. Dual wielding? Glock 18s? God, this there ever going to be a game that gets Special Ops right? -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:No, because the average person doesn't know dick about guns or the military-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 02:25, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
::I really thought that it would be a badass fucking game, which it is, but they made it just too fucking...tacticool. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

Its what happens when they cater to mall ninjas, dual g18s, dual deegs, dual sawn offs.... and the plot made no sense. Price launching a nuke, sheperd going bad, i love how the start of the game has sheperd just standing there without body armor in a war zone where the loliest terrorist could pick him off.... k9870[[User:K9870|K9870]]

: Wouldn't you find a guy who uses .44 magnum in a modern war to be very cocky and arrogant? -[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]]
::True, but some Generals do carry Colt 1911A1s and the such. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:No, anyone who can get a M1911 Authorized carries one-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:35, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

But most generals of today, especially a Lieutenant General would NOT be standing out on the front lines or strongly recommended not to. What is a Lt. General doing in Afghanistan anyway? The game also took out a lot of the old guns in the previous MW game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:38, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

:Not to mention they chose what's essentially a wallhanger sniper rifle (WA2000) over a number of battle-proven designs (M24, M110, even the L96A1 that Counter-Strike players seem to be so in love with). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:15, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:I would rather use my Winchester 88, shooting Hornady Custom .308's, over any of those rifles-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 04:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I agree that the WA2000 was a Stupid choice. That rifles has custom wood stocks and high quality handbuilt precision, and isn't meant for combat use. The only non magnum or anti-material sniper is the M21 EBR, which has a wrongly animated 20-round mag that only holds ten rounds. They dropped the M40, R700 and Dragunov, and gave beginners the Barrett .50 cal. I'm not the best sniper, but I wouldn't have minded a nice bolt action rifle thats not chambered in a massive round. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::No, Dragunov is still in the game. As far as dropping the M40, it would seem logical to do so considering there are no US Marines in MW2. And having the R700 as a separate weapon than the M40 was just pointless, IMO. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::::The Dragunov being in single player doesn't count. Why build it into the game and not add it to multiplayer? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::::Probably the same reason the M40A3 in CoD4 was restricted to MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:13, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

== Glock 18 with red dot ==
Hey if anybody plans to use a G18 with a red dot sight without a silencer I just wanted to tell you that using a G18 in this configuration is a bad idea, the muzzle flash of the gun on full-auto is so large that it actually blocks the view of the dot so much that you can barely see the dot
:Glock 18s were already a bad move. and put three ~ at the end of your text to show your name. like so: -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::I have to agree, without the silencer used the G18s muzzle flash ruins your sight picture, not to mention it has zero range and horrid accuracy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
Ok thanks for telling me how to put my name on a page, and the G18 is an ok gun, I mean the gun tisn't that accurate when you do a full clip 33 round burst, but it is a good close quarters gun because you can hose down an enemy in about two seconds, and I sometimes use it to pin down other players because they think that I am using an MG and when the gun runs out of ammo and they jump out of cover I spray them with a real MG. [[User:Korean war marine]]

I use it for close quarters only, with usually a UMP or Vector to back it up in case I need some accuracy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Glock 18s don't use clips, they use magazines. And I agree with Winchester and M14fanboy, Glock 18 (along with Desert Eagle and Magnum revolver) was a bad choice. Heck, I'd take a Mark 23 over any of them in a combat op any day. They should put in actual ''combat pistols'', not mall ninja favorites. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:They also removed the 1911 from multiplayer. That is just bull shit. I was hoping for a P226 or something from SIG since we got so many British characters or Browning Hi-powers. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:30, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

::I had Hi-Power hopes as well, or possible the 226. But a Colt Anaconda and Desert Eagle, I thought this was military, not ghetto. The only good handguns really are the USP and the M93R, which is like a mini-M16. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

:::I've said this before and I'll say it again that this is a ''war'' game, so they should have dropped the Desert Eagle, Anaconda, and Glock 18 for actual ''combat pistols'' like the aforementioned Hi-Power, 226, and 1911. Heck, I even had hopes that that new Russian service pistol (MR-446 Grach, I think it's called) would make an appearance, but my hopes were all for naught. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::::I know man, it's dperessing to see a WAR game with nothing but stupid magnum handguns firing ridicilously large rounds. Theres a total of two legit combat pistols, the USP and M9, and while I haven't used the USP I can say the M9 is shite. DLC pistols pl0x! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Is it just me ==

or does infinity ward think all firearms in the near future will have a bunch of Picatinny rails on them?

:They just watch too many movies. But then again a lot of issued guns now do have rails. That's how the Marines Corp get their M4s and M16A4s now [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

::All firearms in the near future (aside from oddballs like the XM8) ''will'' have Picatinny rails. Modularity is the wave of the future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually if you look the extra rails are for the heartbeat sensor attatchment, which goes midway along the left side of all the guns its on. The UMP and P90 have them even though SMGs can't have that attachment, so obviously they were going to at some point in development.

== ACOG "off" after EMP among other things. ==

Ok, I get the fact that all electronics that were turned on would have been knocked out after the EMP struck, but...when I picked up a rifle with an ACOG, the lights were out, leaving only a black reticule, which is bullshit because ACOGs don't work like that. They are not battery powered and as such would not be affected by the EMP. I also find it hard to believe that none of the soldiers had flashlights that were most likely turned off during EMP. Another nit-pick is that your weapon after the EMP was an M4 with an EOtech mounted on it. Why couldn't the creators have your character just flip up the iron sights? You had to pick up an entirely different M4, also coincidentally like yours with an M203, with iron sights up for that kinda of thing.

This is one of the many minor lazy details they could have done. Like for the ACR. I know for a FACT that the ACR's bolt release switch is in front of the trigger. It was designed so when you insert a fresh mag, all you have to do is press forward on the release right in front of the trigger! But instead, if you are empty, you insert new mag and then with your FIRING HAND, take it off the pistol grip and pull the charging handle back! One, no soldier would is RIGHT handed would taken their trigger hand off the grip unless they need it to fix a malfunction. They would use their NON firing hand to pull the charging handle since the charging handle and in fact the entire RIFLE was built for both hands to operate. But no, IW wanted us to waste precious seconds to see the wrong hand pull the charging handle. I got shot so many times using the ACR when I am empty completely because I can't just press the bolt catch with my trigger finger as the gun was DESIGNED to! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

To add more fuel to the rant fire, the Glock 18 is an ok gun, I'll admit that in small bursts. But when you reload, you don't press the slide release, which would make getting back into action faster, but instead you're treated to your character pulling the slide back! This is only good for range shooting a Glock, since the slide release is pretty weak, factory wise, but in combat, pulling back the slide takes too much time, in fact, there's a couple seconds delay when reloading an empty Glock. That's why I try to not reload empty weapons. Always mid magazine change. It'll save fustraions for you watching your character take his damn time reloading and doing unneeded things like pulling the slide back or in the ACR's case, use right hand instead of left hand instead of pressing trigger finger forward. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

And even MORE nitpicking. Look at how they attached the M203 on a Tavor in the game! I've seen what an M203 with a Tavor looks like in real life and it works ergonomicially but the way IW did it in this game makes it look stupid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

its a game and just about every gamer you come across wont know about weapons like i have been telling people about the screw ups and they said if they did not give it a name they would have just called the m93r a machine pistol and most people i know call assault rifles machine guns. -scarecrow

yeah I too noticed on the ACR how they made the unnecessary action of charging it and all that when, like they did with the SCAR and M4, they could just push bolt release, which would probably decrease reload time in the game. but hey, maybe the did it cause it would "look cool" - Whatsagun

:Well at least for the M4 and SCAR, they are slapping the bolt release on the side of the gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

:Seriously, no one else noticed how the M4 was modeled on Semi?-protoAuthor 03:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

The M203 in this game is based on an RIS-mounted airsoft replica. [http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/wp-content/uploads/2007/NewshotsofCASCARM203fromVisele_1022A/DSC021252.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:31, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Back to the mocked up Glock 18, I think all videos on youtube never show full auto Glock's reloading. Just one magazine and "The End". But there was this one video on youtube called 298 rounds in full auto and it showed this guy with a mocked up Glock 18 not using the slide release lever, just pulling back the slide. With this video close to 5,000,000 views it's quite obvious IW got there ideas from that video.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI Glock 298 rounds in full auto]

:In response to that, I keep saying that most people target shooting with a lot of their guns would pull back the slide instead of pressing the slide release because every time they press down on it, it degrades it more and more. In a combat situation, you shouldn't be thinking about that if you are rushing to reload. If you are on the range, pissing bullets, then you do the pull slide back. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I wanna nitpick on the gun selection in this game. I'm sure they did this to expand the number of guns used, but some of their choices just kinda irk me. For instance, why does the Russian military use FAMAS, Tavor TAR-21, MG4, UMP, TDI Vectors, PP2000, AUG, AK's and RPD's? Seriously, TAR-21's? Israel doesn't even really like Russia right now, considering that they're selling weapons to people who want to destroy them.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:Well the AKs, RPD and PP2000 are obviously Russian weapons, but I hate that they didn't give them AK-74 type weapons, but all 47s instead. The Russian military doesn't use AK-47s anymore. They've switched to the smaller rounds. They also had the Russians during the Wolverine mission with FALs. IW obviously didn't know a thing about Russian military of today and didn't want to just give them all AKs, so they slapped them with a bunch of other guns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
::Wait a minute, aren't russians in the Wolverines mission ultranationalists? Because if they are the terrorist ones then they can have any gun they want.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
:No they're the russian army. I'm guessing that you haven't played the game (spoiler) as it is the russian army paratroopers invading the east coast of the U.S. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC))

I think the Ultra nationalist won the civil war in Russia. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that IW was not thinking in terms of reality but in terms of playablity. I mean, think about it, how boring would it be if the only weapon you could find was an AK-47?

Yes, I have to agree that it seems that IW knows jack-shit about firearms, just like most everyone else in the world, unfortunately. An FN rifle with a reciprocating charging handle? Come on. [[Special:Contributions/70.196.44.211|70.196.44.211]] 01:03, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

:At least they didn't make the single player M16A4 a full auto weapon and made it burst. That one's ok. And seriously, if they were modeling their guns off of airsofts, or even real ones, how can they fuck up with the SCAR's rear flip up sight? It's very hard to miss where it folds. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

I'll join the Nit picking, do correct me if I am wrong on this though. At least one of the Spec Ops missions has a suppressed M1014 and Striker. I haven't gone into multiplayer yet so I don't know if they pop up anywhere else, but I have never heard of a shotgun being suppressed. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

:There's also a silenced AA-12 in one, too. But like you, I'm not to sure about how feasible the silencing of a shotgun is. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

:They probably got the idea off the suppressed Remington 11-87 in No Country for Old Men. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:30, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

When EMPs emitted from nuclear explosions they effectively send a massive charge through any electrical cable. To be more specific, an EMP is composed of three things. The E1 components of EMPs have an intense electric field that induces very high voltages in electrical conductors. The E2 components act like the EMPs from lightning, but as a result are also easily protected against. An ACOG, however, is certainly not protected from this. The E3 component acts like a geomagnetic storm, which produces even more geomagnetically induced currents in electrical conductors, which damages electric components. While it is true that the ACOG uses tritium versus a battery, this does not change the fact that it uses electrical conductors (cables) to connect parts. The EMP would fry the ACOG, regardless of its power source. Besides, batteries use electrochemical energy, so there's nothing different in the battery from everything else in the ACOG except for some salt. The fact that the ACOG should not have been affected by the EMP should be removed. --[[User:Strategos|Strategos]] 19:20, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

The ACOG doesn't have a power source... Tritium is slightly radioactive which is why it glows. Nothing electronic about it. If you were right night sights on a pistol or even the tritium notches on my watch would go out. This isn't true at all.

== TMP or MP9? ==

Hi. Just wondering about the labeling on the MW2 page. The game calls it a "TMP", but on the MW2 page it's labeled as an MP9. Since they look the same, why bother calling it the MP9 when it is in fact the TMP? -KLR

:Because the MP9 is the newer version of the TMP. I do believe Bruger and Thomet took over production from Steyr, who no longer makes it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::Isn't the side-folding stock unique to the MP9? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:32, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I think that was a part of the update too. Either way, unless those are old TMPs, the MP9 is the logical choice for the game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::::Update? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

:::::The update Bruger and Thomet made when they took over building TMPs. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Walther WA 2000 screenshot==
Did someone have fun or is this an unedited screenshot from the game? If you look at the scope you can see an unhappy sick face painted on the scope cover. I have yet to use this gun, so I don't know. My money is on someone having fun. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 09:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

No, it's really like that in the game, the only people having fun there was Infinity Ward :D [[Special:Contributions/90.213.208.208|90.213.208.208]]

:Thats the emblem used for a certain class of accolades, and a comedic effect as well. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

stop lieing to the guy. yes it does have a sick face painted on the cover its more noticeable on the WA2000 theres one on the barrett M102(idk the spelling or the number) aswell but its hard to see. theres none on the intervention or the M21 EBR. - Scarecrow

==L86A1 LSW drum magazine==

It is impossible in real life to fire and handle an L85A1 LSW with a 100 round drum magazine? --[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 15:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

:Impossible? No. Incredibly uncomfortable, awkward, and impractical? Yes.--[[Special:Contributions/141.165.142.102|141.165.142.102]] 16:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

::Unless you're left-handed or have ''really long arms''... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also the drum in the game model doesn't make sense. That's surely not big enough tohold 100 rounds, looks more like 50 to me. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]
:If you shot it left handed, the charging handle would break your jaw-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 21:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
::I didn't know the L85/86 had a reciprocating charging handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
::: Either way you'd still get a face full of hot brass firing left handed. Which may probve to be a problem if I decide to enlist... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
:::: There's a theory of mine that in the very early parts of development, the L86 was going to be in the AUG's slot and the L86 now was going to be the Chinese Type 95 LMG. The AUG was apparently going as an Assault rifle as people initially thought. To me, the Drum magazine looks very similar to that of Type 95 LMG, maybe sometime mid-development they decided to change it to something else and merely slapped the Drum magazine on there? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]]

== SCAR H is really a SCAR L ==

I think that the SCAR that is in the game is actually chambered in 5.56. I say this because it holds 30 rounds and after the helicopter is shot down in DC you are given a mag for an M4 from Sgt. Foley who has a SCAR. I think they had the SCAR replacing the M16 as the main battle rifle of the U.S. Military with the M16A4 being used for the reserve troops. They probably used the SCAR H model to make it look cooler. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
:The SCAR in the game isn't chambered in anything because it is a video game. Also if I am not mistaken IMFDB policy in regards to videogames is to identify guns purely by looks, not by any specifications. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
No its the Mk. 17 as evidenced by the larger flash suppressor. Infinity Ward probably created a 30 round mag to keep it more like an assault rifle than the battle rifle it is. Also the soldier who gives you the M4 dies and the clip could be from him.
Here's a picture of the flash suppressor to show it's an Mk.17--[[User:Km314|Km314]] 06:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
[[http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/c/c0/SCAR-H_Lv8_II.png]]
:''Magazine'', not clip. And I thought there had been a 30 round magazine introduced for use with the M14 rifle a few years ago? Last I heard, the Mark 17 still used M14 mags. And, while this may not be the best of arguments here, the Mark 17 in-game has heavier recoil than either the M16 or M4 and generally seems more effective at longer ranges than the M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

It only has the 30 round magazine in single player, incorrectly, but in multiplayer, it has the 20 round. A lot of the weapons in multiplayer is correct but still, IW did miss a few things, like the rear iron sight for the SCAR is supposed to fold down towards the user, not away. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
:Regarding the rear sight... someone on IW's forum actually pointed that out to them sometime prior to the game's release, but they didn't do anything. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

== Is it an M9, 92FS or 92SB? ==

I'm confused. We have the title of the handgun called an SB, then a photo of a 92FS and then in the description, it's called an M9. Which one is it? Isn't the game trying to portray an M9 since it's military use? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

it should be cleened up. well im guessing that some one that only knows of the 92FS the civil version of the M9 (what its suposed to be) posted it
but its a 92SB because of the rounded trigger guard. -scarecrow

== Combat Knife ==

Can anyone identify the combat knife used in the final level? I know I've seen it before, I just don't know where. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:05, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

-If it's the same one that shows up in the sneak type missions I believe its a Blackhawk Tatang or SZABO FELONY STOP. --Pawnstar

:Looks like it's the Tatang. It is DEFINITELY NOT the Szabo Felony Stop. Thanks for the help, chief. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

just played that level again and i dont think its a tatang -scarecrow
: Well, they look exactly alike, from the design of the blade to the look of the grip. The dimensions may be a tiny bit off, but that's not all that surprising.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 21:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Is that the same blade that appears when you melee? Gunner313
:Not sure. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 21:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
::The melee knife, throwing knife and tactical knife are all different, IIRC. Easiest way to see the knife is to throw one and look at it. --[[Special:Contributions/24.63.181.248|24.63.181.248]] 22:34, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

i sware someone edited my post? i originally said that the one in SP is not a tatang the blade and grip a different shaped from what i remember. the one online is a tatang and the melee knife is a tatang im not sure about the tac knife the next time im on il check. il post a pic of the final one soon -scarecrow

There are actually only two knifes, Soap's at the end (not sure what it is), and the Tatang, which is the melee/throwing/tac knife/the one Soap and Price stab the guards with when they rappel down and when Price stabs the guy at the top of the stairs in Just Like Old Times

--[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:44, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

allright to end this once and for all the melee/tac/throwing knife is the tatang but the endgame throwing knife is differant

The article also incorrectly states that the Tatang is not available with a serrated blade, when in fact it is.

I edited that part after it was added, it was pretty badly done so I just tidyied it up, but I'm not too much of a knife guy, not that they're not cool, I just don't have a lot of knowledge there, so I didn't change the basic info, feel free to change it though :) EDIT: Oookaaay, someone removed it completely... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:05, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

== Vector things ==

Just wondering,isnt the ingame name of the Kriss SUper V "Vector" wrong,because the gun has the TDI CRB/SO magazine and stock.

:Copyright stuff.

I thought the Vector is the most modern variant from TDI. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

wait what? i thought the CRB/SO is the semi auto civil version[[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:51, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== AUG ==

Is the AUG supposed to be the equivalent of the FG42 from WAW? --[[User:Phil|Phil]] 22:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:What do you mean "equivalent"? I know what the word means, I just don't know how it applies here. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:45, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

:Why would you compare a WWII weapon to a modern rifle? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::Maybe he's asking if they fill the same role? I know the AUG Hbar classifies more or less as an infantry automatic rifle, intended to function as a magazine-fed light support weapon. Was this the FG42's role? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:05, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

From what I understand the FG42 was designed to give paratroopers a rifle that would replace the Kar 98, MP-40, MG-42, and their pistols in airbourne jumps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FG42 gives you a good idea. Grizzlybar

I think he means the M82 (Barrett .50 Cal) is to the PTRS-41 as the AUG Hbar is to the FG42. Understand now? And to answer your question, Phil, no I don't think so for two reasons. They both perform differently, especially in terms or recoil and magazine capacity. Second, Treyarch likes to copy Infinty Ward, not the other way around. It's not like IW to take an idea from Treyarch.[[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:45, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

:I wouldn't say that at all. The HBAR has a 42 round magazine, the FG42 a mere 20. Also, in WaW the FG42 has a stupidly high ROF which burns the mag if you cough on your controller. The AUG is more accurate and has a better ROF, not to mention it looks better IMO. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

== Suppressed Shotguns ==

I find it weird and kinda stupid that the game has suppressed shotguns. Every single shotgun has a suppressor and they are very quiet sounds too [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:I'm not too sure on how feasible silencing a shotgun is either. Either way, suppressed shotguns seem to me like the in-game equivalent of bringing an airsoft to a gunfight: USELESS. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
The only way you can silence a shotgun is by porting the barrel and installing an integrated suppressor. And it never will be as quiet as portraid in the game. There is a vid on ytube where one gentleman show his silenced shotguns.

well at least they didn't screw it up compleatly and put suppressors on the 1887s [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:54, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
:Shush! Don't give them any ideas! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
::It's kind of strange that suppressed shotguns are more quieter than other suppressed weapons. I believe that suppressed shotuns are added to replace the suppressed ACRs in the Spec Ops missions based on stealth missions in the campaign as a silenced ACR would make Spec Ops way too easy since that its rate of fire, large magazine size, and moderate damage could allow the player to take out a huge amount of enemy guards without alerting them. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:44, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

== GP-30 reload ==

As you know, russian under-barrel grenade lauchers (GP series) shoots caseless rounds. But why the f character in MW games feels the need to shake something (shellcase?) out of the bore after each shot? How could IW let such harsh technical inaccuracy in both modern warfare games? I could assume that this was done for balance sake, but why not just make longer but proper looking animation.

:Like you said, it was done for balance. IW was more concerned with "fair play" unfortunately. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:18, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

::I just thought that it would be better if they left the ejection animation out and extended the time duration of the animation of putting the new round in. That way, it makes the game more realistic ''and'' balanced. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:30, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
:::True. I mentioned the same above. But the thing is that this game was aimed at mass gamer audience most of which know donkey dick about weaponry and, in particularly, some Russian muzzle-loaded under-barrel gls. Neither they know that 1 cartrige stays up the pipe when you reload mid-mag. IW is a money shovelers now. Too much disappointments for me. I don't buy their games anymore.

:::Very true. Even ''I'' didn't know how the GP launchers functioned up until a few years ago. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:36, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

== art book scans? ==
hey i was just wondering does any one know where i could find some scans of the art book from the prestige ed if someone could upload then a post a link or find a link to a nother site thats would be great thanks [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Enjoy [http://img253.imageshack.us/g/mw21.jpg/ link]

thanks mystery person [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 08:06, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
:Funny, my artbook doesn't have pics of SCARs or MG4s in it... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:36, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

== Removing Sights ==

I was wondering how hard it would be to remove mounted sights (like the acog, HALO sight, red dot sights, etc) from the top of the rails on a battlefield. I'm sure it would require tools, but would soldiers be required to carry these tools? I was just wondering because with the EMP blast, when the battery powered optics become useless, how hard would it be to remove those sights and use the backup sights? Aren't the backup sights there in case something does happen to the attached sights?--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

::No way! If you could adjust your weapon on the go (like in Crysis, Stalker), it would be just too complex for a game like CoD.

:No. The point of mounting an optic onto a system is to not require tools (although I'm not too sure about the HALO sight). Many of the mounts use thumb-screws that you tighten by using your hands. It's not as tight as using a wrench, but in in emergencies, this makes them easier to remove. As of the back-up sights, I'm afraid IW uses them only for aesthetic purposes, and prove no purpose. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 21:27, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

:No, no special tools are needed to remove any of those optics. Just twist a thumbscrew or flip a throw lever (depending on type of mount), pull it off, and you're good to go. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Just been wondering. I don't expect games like COD to be all that realistic (given the plot and the characters ability to regenerate health from near death). Was just wondering how difficult it was in reality.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 16:43, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

:The stupid part of the EMP was that the ACOG scopes were not on. ACOGs don't use batteries to light up their sights. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:::Yeah, that's an embarrassing error. They could do a spectacular animation showing player (and some of his squad-mates) dismount their sights, throw it away, flip up buis' and remark how it fucking sucks. Those in team with ACOGs on their pieces would leave them and have greater accuracy. Also they could insert some comic conversation between rangers, like: "Dud, I told you ACOG rules, brah". And of course player could find rifle equipped with it.

its surprising how many ignorant people there are i nearly got in a full argument with someone a few days back over the fact he claimed (and still believes) ALL ACOG sights sorry he thinks ALL sights apart from iron sights are powered by battery i guess thats why he looked puzzled when i started laughing at him i guess IW is just a group of ignorant people that should do more research [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 10:04, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
::And their military advisers are as ignorant.
:::I doubt they even have a military adviser. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:04, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

:a lot of sights can be co witnessed, where you can still use your irons looking through the sight when off // disabled. Hell often times the dot in the sight lines up with your front sight post. -stu

So out of all the ways Infinity Ward took a crap on realism with MW2 we're complaining about the ACOG turning off...? [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 12:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
:::I would close eyes on bullshit perks and story, if they made everything from the technical side at least look properly.
::::I'm not just talking about perks and storyline or even technical stuff. How about the ability to single-handedly breach into a room with a 37-pound .50 caliber rifle and kill 4 armed men in 2.5 seconds using 4 rounds. Or maybe the fact that every freaking weapon has a full rail system on it, even in the hands of ragtag militia in Brazil and Afghanistan. Or maybe how I can squeeze 30 rounds out of a 20 round SCAR-H mag. Maybe it's the fact I can run around with 2 UMP-45's and reload them by putting them at my side for a second or two. It's probably really the fact that the M240B has very similar, if not the same attributes of the M249 SAW from COD 4 despite the fact it uses a drastically more powerful round, weighs more, and has a slower fire rate in reality. It could just be how you can take out everyone while firing a fully automatic Glock pistol (mislabeled as a G18) with one hand while driving a snowmobile over a giant cliff with the other. Rant finished. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 04:31, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
from what I understand the SCAR-H uses M14 mags and to my knowledge there are 30 round mags for the M14. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:49, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not sure on that, but even if that is true the in-game model is unquestionably a 20-round mag. [[User:Mandaloin|Mandaloin]] 20:01, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
that being said you should notice that the FAL has 30 round mags yet only 20 rounds in them.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:02, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's weird, in the Singpleplayer, the FAL has 30 rounds, which is correct, but for some reason in Multiplayer, they gave it 20 for no good reason. The SCAR-H is correct in multi with 20 rounds, but not in single [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:::::It would be overpowered and evil if it had 10 more bullets in it!
::::::Yeah, and all the kids would be screaming and crying at "FAL noobs". XD [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:13, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm more annoyed about the tubers because the game promotes the use of grenade launchers to unlock the shotgun attachment a 203 kill counts as a kill to the rifle it is attached to [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

==Screenshot location==
Does anyone know where in the game was this screenshot taken?

[[Image:Mw2_1911_ego_idle.jpg|thumb|400px|none|M1911 in ego-view.]]
It seems to defeat the "it's only usable in bonus mission" bit. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:16, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:I think it's the museum level. There's a diorama of the prison mission, complete with helicopters. The picture if just confusing because you can't see that it's just a diorama. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 17:38, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== Desert Eagle Picattiny Rail ==

I FOUND IT! Magnum Research offers a barrel with Picattiny rails: http://magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=BAR506 [[User:Yocapo32]]

== The Next Call of Duty games ==

Do you think they should do a Korean war and Vietnam War Call of Duty?

It's confirmed by Activision that Treyarch will be making the next COD and it will be Vietnam [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Gold Desert Eagle ==

I don't have the game but I saw some videos of the new maps and the player had a Gold Desert Eagle. Can someone tell me about it?
:It's just like any other Desert Eagle aside from having a gold finish. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:39, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Well how do you get it on this one?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 13:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

It can be accessed trought hacks. But moderators are gonna kick you in the ass, throw your Xbox Live (Or whatever) account to a hole, dump gasoline on it, then throw a cigar in the hole --[[Special:Contributions/190.176.201.179|190.176.201.179]] 01:57, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Probably saving it for a $10 DLC.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

== F-15? ==

I am wondering. Since this game is supposed to portray a near future military using customized guns, guns that aren't in normal military because they look cool, etc. In the mission the Gulag, we are supported by a flight of F-15s. It bothered me. If the creators wanted us to portray a more movie action pack scene, shouldn't the F22s, or F35s be more appropriate for the scene since they are the "fighters of the future"? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

: The F-15's projected to be in service until 2025, eleven years after the game is set. Although using F-35Cs would make the whole shtick about the Navy make more sense. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:55, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

:: Have to agree with you there. The F-35 would make more sense and by the same token...why are they still using AH-6 Little Birds in the "future"? --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 22:35, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

:I know that fighters, weapons, uniforms, have long service life with project dates for when they should be replaced, but the F-15 appearing put me off that they might be trying to throw back realism, that just because it's the future, we're showing you F-15s anyway, because anything else would have been throwing in a fighter that's more "futuristic" like in Transformers where Starscream is a F22 and in Die Hard 4, we see an F-35. Though like you pointed out, an F-35 would have made scene in a scene that would require them to not doing strafing runs, but cover the troops landing. And about the Little Birds. They are also still using Blackhawks, unless you know any particular "future" replacement for either, I'd see them using them in the game. But I wonder why little birds in a mission like this. Little Birds are short range, not like the Blackhawks, which would have made more sense, but then again your character and Soap was using them as a sniper platform. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:38, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

:None of us have spotted the main problem(s) here. 1. F-15Cs doing ground attacks. The C model is an air superiority fighter. The E would be assisting ground forces. 2. It is stated (or implied) that this is a naval operation, so why F-15s? Surely FA-18s wouldn't be too radically different to spoil whatever effect they were aiming for?

=="No Russian"==
After I played that level, I thought up a question that I couldn't answer: if they didn't know Allen's real identity in the first place, then would they try to support a lie that Makarov's forces are supported by Americans by using NATO weapons since that the weapons they're using are NATO weapons? I mean, if they do that, then it would be stupid as the Russians can believe that they stole those weapons. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 04:35, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
:Don't forget that, in the setting of this game, the ultranationalists rule in Russia. This guys hate the USA, not only because of their involvement in the civil war depicted in CoD4:MW. All Makarov wants to give them is a cause they can present to the world, he doesn't have to convince the Russians, they want a war, anyway.
:: Agreed, its less about provocation for the Russians, its more about making Russia look like the victim. Let the media have a field day with it around the world and it gives the Russians an excuse to go ape-shit.

==F2000 Patch==
So Recently I tried to get back into using the F2000, and oddly it felt like it handled better now. Well I talked to a friend of mine who did MW2 Beta testing and is friends with Robert Bowling, and no word to lie, I actually caused this fix. About a month ago I sent Bowling an email outlining how and why he should fix the F2000 and me it worthy of being a level 60 rifle. Well my friend said that Bowling actually listened, and so in the patch that came with the Resurgence Map Pack, the F2000 had a recoil reduction and damage boost built into it. And now this weekend I've been using the F2000 more, and while the recoil still isn't ACR like, it's a lot easier to use, and now worthy of being a high level unlock. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Have they fixed the broken silencers? Or does the M9 and M240 still show up on radar?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:50, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Hard to say, I didn't even know they were broken like that, so maybe. Lately I've been using the LMGs more, and I still wish the SAW from CoD 4 would return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

I rarely use suppressors on anything. Sometimes, on the Glocks I carry and sometimes on the sniper rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:38, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:I rarely use a suppressor on my SCAR if I'm doing a cold blooded class, as it can do well without stopping power. But usually it's my trusty SCAR-H with Holographic and Blue Tiger with a Gripped SPAS-12 secondary. Also, I have a silencer on my UMP in my cold blooded anti-air class. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

Broken Silencers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkbs4zktJtQ&annotation_id=annotation_775038&feature=iv --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:More broken shit in MW2 for the win! Great job Infinity Ward, is this patch 1.11 now? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

==Red Dot Sight==
I was playing online, and was using the red dot sight , and was wondering what model red dot it is. PunisherDave

Talk:The Punisher (1989)

2010-05-28T12:46:48Z

PunisherDave: /* Excellent Thomas Jane Film? */

== Excellent Thomas Jane Film? ==
Who put that there anyways? I think I threw up 4 times watching that movie based on pure boredom. What 2 gun battles in the entire pic?--[[User:Panther61DC08|Panther61DC08]] 15:48, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
:IMFDB users seem to think the the 2004 version was great. I prefer the War Zone version. It's like Commando on Steroids.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::MPM2008 wrote it. And it WAS an excellent film. Not everything in a movie need to be action. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:I liked WarZone (punches through a dude's FACE), but Thomas Jane's version is definitely more character-oriented. Though WarZone seems closer to the comics.-protoAuthor
Got this version, will screencap-protoAuthor

Someone needs to change the headline on this page stating that the Tom Jane Punisher film was excellent, as that comment is purely the authors opinion. - PunisherDave
::Done. 5/27/10 22:30 CST. -JAG1967
:::And undone, do it correctly or not at all. Also removing the sarcasm from the page. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:23, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you sir. - PunisherDave

Talk:The Punisher (1989)

2010-05-28T01:41:31Z

PunisherDave: /* Excellent Thomas Jane Film? */

Talk:Punisher: War Zone

2010-05-12T16:42:01Z

PunisherDave: /* So? M4 or not? */

This is a quote from an interview with the military advisor of the film about how he outfitted Frank

"We used weapons based on need and back-story and nothing made up. All of the Punisher’s weapons currently exist and are being used in modern combat! The Punisher originated out of Vietnam, so his primary weapon in the film is an M-4 which he would feel the most comfortable with. To that I mounted a mini grenade launcher using thermo baric grenades for point detonations. I followed that up with the most powerful revolver on the planet, a Knight’s Armament/Smith&Wesson custom Model 500 .50 cal, in a breakaway leg holster as his back-up!
We created two fully automatic Beretta 92f handguns for close quarter combat.
In the opening of the film he uses ultra reliable H&K custom MP5’s in fully automatic that he carries in the small of his back, and for speed draws a H&K USP compact .45.
I also had a custom mini 13” Bolo machete combat knife created that he carries on a leg holster for hand to hand.
The result was modern weapons used in the modern time, but in full Punisher style!"
:Not a very good advisor, is he? The Smith & Wesson 500 is the most powerful production revolver, certainly not the most powerful on the planet. The .600 Nitro Revolver made by some guy that weighs about 12 pounds is the most powerful. Sounds like he's a little too excited about his decisions. Personally, this movie looks like it will suck, but I'll give it a chance. -GM
::The Pfeifer Zeliska .600 Nitro Express revolver is more powerful but it IS NOT a "production revolver" so sorry to break to you chief and your expertise.. but SW 500 "most powerful production revolver in the world today" so the Military Advisor is right.-D
:::You are aware I'm the one who said it's athe most powerful production revolver right? He said it was the most powerful in the world, but it isn't. I said the Pfeifer Zeliska was, but it isn't a production gun. Read more carefully next time. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
: Actually, in the comics Frank Castle states he hates the M16 and M4 rifles. He also always carries a m1911 and a pump gun in his coat and has a M249 on the backseat of his Hummer.-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::For me, I might not watch this movie really because Thomas Jane isn't in it and it looks like a bad generic action movie. I like how the first one showed how the Punisher really can do things we believe, but the moment I saw the trailer of the Punisher dropping from the ceiling, and spinning around with double MP5Ks...it makes it look like the action style is trying to be John Woo, but even that is over the top. The weapon of choices they give the Punisher movie, in my opinion, doesn't fit for how the Punisher should be. I understand the M4 with the grenade launcher and even the USP as the backup, but apparently, he carries all that in one action sequence. Seems a little too much stuff to carry, but hey, I'll give this movie a chance to JUST because I have to really see it to really critize it. -Ex
:Full auto Beretta Inoxs are very tactically stupid. A S&W 500 is not a back up gun, it's a primary. You don't carry an ankle gun that can down a bear. Personally, I thought the original Punisher comics sucked ass, too "comics" like. Have you ever read a seventies comic? They are terrible. Like a bad '50s safety video. Personally I liked the "Welcome Back, Frank" story which the 2004 film was based on. Thomas Jane was going for the "descent into madness" sort of look like DeNiro in ''[[Taxi Driver]]'', which is an interesting idea (although the punisher should not be a physchopath, that's bad). Castle's attachment to 1911s was one of my favorite elements of the story. And my LEAST favorite part of the old comics was the costume. The new story made it a sweet T-shirt, this one brings out the lame ass tights. I just don't have much faith in it. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Are they INOXs or 92FS? I tried to distinguish what I thought was right on the page, but why would they switch Beretta models like that?-UW

:I want to know who this military adviser for the film is and tell him that most of his suggestions for a modern day Punisher arsenal is very stupid. Except the M4 with the GL. The S&W 500 and auto Berettas dual wielding and dual wielding MP5ks while spinning from a chandelier is very stupid and he's watched too many John Woo movies and even John Woo never had his actors spin around a chandelier like that... [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls. I can't say I agree with her vision, but I enjoyed the film for its action and cheesy performances. The 04 version was a serious film that was marred by a lot of stupid stuff and a lack of action. The 08 version was a campy attempt that didn't even try to be serious but had the brutality that the 04 movie lacked. It's sad that a film hasn't yet been made that's done the Punisher justice. I don't know how to post pictures, but put Punisher revolver into a search engine and it will bring up the sweet Knight's Armament custom piece that was made for the final fight, no matter how impractical it may be. A lot of stuff in War Zone was done simply for the sake of theatrics. -- ZG

:::''(I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls.)''
:::Well said, and not to burst anyone else's bubble but the ARMORER or Military Advisor doesn't make the final call on weapons ... EVER. It's the director. Period. I've had to bite my tongue several times (as the other armorers here can attest as well) when a Director picks a weapon that I would not have. But it's their decision to make. So stop blaming the advisors or armorers, when it's probably the director you need to yell at. Just a note! :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

: ''The Punisher '04 was plenty bloody and brutal, better constructed and better acted. Tom Jane's Frank Castle, quite frankly, would stomp mudholes right into the Jason Voorhees wannabe that Ray Stevenson either chose to portray or HAD to portray. And frankly, no amount of theatrics can act as an excuse for the absolute tripe that went down in this movie. Seemed like the man was holstering and drawing his pistols every other kill; I'm sorry, isn't he supposed to be former frickin' Special Forces? And for all of the whole "We're more faithful to the comics" crap, I'm not seeing it. I can't remember a single one of the MAX comics being as horrible as this movie ended up being. Total dreck. And I've got a few choice words for the military advisor on the movie, but I'm afraid that they're not suitable for even this little corner of the Internet.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

The theatrics, I think, were just another one of the films downfalls. I agree the 04 version was better acted. As for the construction of the films...eh, I've got too many thoughts to list. I'm glad you liked the 04 movie. The fact that both films have so many fans AND detractors just means there's so much territory still to cover, though I think the fans have been part of what tears these movies apart. I'm much more lenient on the film because I have no definitive view of the Punisher and I really have no particular need for material to come directly from the comics. I think we need to step away from the comics and focus on what makes a good movie, instead. Though I was just thinking earlier that War Zone was so goofy and flamboyant, if they were going to drop the Punisher into the Marvel Universe with the likes of Spiderman and Iron Man, this would pretty much be the Punisher I would expect them to use.
:^Do we have comments from a film maker here? Please comment more. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==They destroyed [[The Punisher]]==

The advisor said that the guns are full punisher style! Bullshit! they ruined the whole thing like the dropping from the ceiling with to SMGs part. And the real punisher doesn't use extremely modern looking weapons and dress up like that! This movie might have lots of action and all that but the style of the punisher is gone. The 1911s are a trademark of Frank Castle, so to Lionsgate, bring Thomas Jane back or the next Punisher suffers!-GunnutHk

:Thomas Jane was completely onboard for the second Punisher movie, but when the producers took too long getting a script up and changing actors, he decided to drop out. I think this movie would have been better if Thomas Jane was in it. And speaking of the 1911, we do see in the movie the Punisher taking a 1911, disasemebling it and cleaning it, but never use it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

:Agreed, Thomas Jane's take on Castle was far superior to Ray Stevenson's (no diss to Ray, though, as he's one of my favorite actors). And I also agree that the weapon selections (save for the M4A1, the SL8, and the MP5Ks) sucked. They should have given him 1911s instead of Beretta 92s or that 500 and put an M203 on the M4 instead of that AGX. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi everybody i was just wonering wher did he keep his usp compact?

the Punisher seems like a Vigilante slowly going down hill then a action hero rex095

Better than the Thomas Jane one there reason is Castle has no super powers but he has one that could be a super power his incredible pain tolerance he just doesn't care about pain he is a pure killing machine no regrets whatsoever and that's why this movie nailed it, Jane was a pussy with his t shirt and getting beaten all the time in this movie even though he got the shit kicked out of him by Jigsaws brother he didn't even flinch he didn't hesitate to kill micro cause that was what he had to do Punisher doesn't care about life if it can't be saved he wont try

:The Jane Punisher getting the shit kicked out of him by the Russian was straight out of the comics and very faithful to how it played on film. The fight with LBJ was frankly anemic, and boring. Also, if he doesn't care about a life that he knows can not be saved, then why the hell did he tell the ex-gangbanger who was missing limbs and had an axe in his chest not to die on him? That is a very un-Punisher thing to say.

:And that one shot in the 2004 film of Jane shooting a thug lying wounded on the ground without given him any notice or care, says a lot more about the character than killing 50 criminals in one scene.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

:My weigh in on the Russian fight is that I just wasn't a big fan of Castle getting beat up. I didn't like how it was done in the comic and the movie recreation was just so-so. If you've ever played the PS2 or Xbox Punisher game, that scenario plays out with Frank kicking the crap out of the Russian and tossing him out a window. I'd have liked that better. As for the injured ex-gangbanger, to me that showed a bit of character development from Frank, who had previously shown his distaste for the man, but after working with him had come to view him as an ally. This is something we'd probably never see in the comic, and I liked it. I did really like the shootout in the 04 Punisher, especially when he finished off the wounded guy, but I also felt we got the same type of brutal Punisher mindset when Stevenson threw McGinty onto an iron fence before jumping down on his neck. What I liked the most about the Dolph Lundgren and Ray Stevenson films is that they showed that the Punisher can viciously murder criminals and still be a GOOD GUY without dealing with all that anti-hero moral conundrum bullcrap. -- ZG

::Regarding the gangbanger thing, you may have liked but it was a completely out of character thing for him to say, even to an ally. They went for a cliched moment that was out of character.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

Also, scenes being constantly neonlighted got pretty annoying fast. I'm sure the idea sounds cool in paper, but is quite the opposite in practice. -AlkoTanko

Ok, tho i might not be the biggest military buff, i did a few years in the royal marines, but i do know comics and i know the punisher, bitch all you like about the stupid MP5 cieling deal , cus that was retarded, but this is garthe ennis's marvel max punisher, the punisher comics every tru punisher fan swears by. The 2004 tom jane job was based loosely on welcome back frank and punisher year one. Garth ennis wrote welcome back frank as a tester to get punisher made into a serious adult title and he self proclaimed hating the stupid bits in the comic such as the russian. Now you can say that tom janes version was any less tactially aware than stevensons, i mean he took a 40mm lancher into a nightclub and didnt even cover up his arms. Im not sayin i dont like the 2004 version, but it wasnt the punisher. Just angry op the movie, wrong actor, wrong location and a shity villain. So im gonna defend stevensons monosyallabic rough house, and dont forget kiddies, this is based on a comic book movie --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 03:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, anyone who has read Punisher knows he loses a lot of fights, it creates dramatic tension. If he won hands down every fight it would get boring, there needs to be a challenge. That's why every one of the Ennis stories had an epic fight with someone of Frank's aptitude. Second, Frank rarely gives a shit when people die, especially gangbangers reformed or not. The only one in recent memory was O'Brian. Third, they screwed up every villain from the comic. Pitsy was supposed to be an old tough bastard with a "Fuck you you fuckin fuck!" attitude, in this he was more a tag-along fuck-tard. McGinty was a torture loving psycho out for money, not a meth addict free-runner looking for a fun time. Tiberiu Bulat was an irredeemable rapist war criminal, not a kindly old man who had rules who you could make a deal wit. Where should i start with Jigsaw? That being said Stevenson was a pretty good Castle, and Wayne Knight was a pretty good Micro. the movie around them was what sucked, the over the top Jigsaw, the ceiling shooting, and Nicky Cavella the undercover cop instead of the maniac from the comic ruined this film. It talked a good game in the locker room but was shaky when it was time to put on the cleats.

What they should've done was just adapt some Punisher: Max stories, seriously, those're awesome. In fact, wouldn't it be great if directors could just get their head around the fact that they could simply take the comic DIRECTLY into a movie? Of course, then you have their egos to deal with, and then all hell breaks loose... I noticed someone said above that Frank doesn't like the M16/M4. This is true, but he actually does use it, because he likes the M203. And speaking of firearms, would a suppressor on a .50 cal revolver even do anything? I mean, don't revolvers have that gap between the barrel and cylinder, making supporessors useless besides hiding muzzle flash? And another thing; he puts a scope onto the smaller 500, but doesn't put one onto the longer 500, which has a picattiny rail built into it just for scopes? Holy shit, that's just sad. Will there ever be a movie that has a bunch of firearms, but doesn't screw them all up? Huh...you know, imagine that, if some director asks for advice from a site like this to make sure he knows what the hell he's doing. Now that I think about it, why don't the armorers ever tell them about that stuff? Whatever...--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 02:36, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

==Mini Crossbow==
In the beginning of the movie, the Punisher uses a very small fold-out crossbow to take down a guard at the docks. Is this even a real weapon?

- Wade Wilson

=unknowns=
'''[moved from main page]''' --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 06:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
== Mircrochip's gun racks ==
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Right side, very top is a (very) shorty G3. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:20, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Guns in this pic?==
[[Image:Pwz lair.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Steyr TMP]]?

*m1911 pistol
*mp5
*beretta 92 two tone( maybe a elite II)
*m4a1
*rare.22 type suppresed pistol
== Unknowns ==

[[Image:Punishergun5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
I see the MP5Ks with removed foregrips, Springfield XDs, M1911s and a full size MP5.-[[User:GunnutHk|GunnutHk]]

Actually I think the one on the bottom right is a Smith & Wesson M&P.

[[Image:Punishergun7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
::probaly a Charter Arms Snub

i don't think charter makes a hammerless.
[[Image:Punishergun8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Micro/Mini Uzi? That looks like an Uzi stock
:It's a Smith & Wesson M76. You can see the stock and the hand grip. If your smart.
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Ruger Mk II?

that is a 44 or 357 automag-Doomsayer64

==Revenge or Punishment?==

Okay, the Punisher punishes people right? He began punishing them as a ''form'' of revenge, but still, why would they write "Vengeance has a new name" on the dvd cover? That's kind of inaccurate...does anyone agree? --[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 14:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I think they meant that vengeance has a new name which is Frank Castle

== So? M4 or not? ==

Reading the comments, I never found a streight answer. Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy. So, when the armourer says 'M4' I doubt he means it. It's definatly an HK416. Please change it. I beg of you.

:Tell me your evidence that it is an HK416. Unfortunately none of the screen caps on the page gives us the lower receiver. It could be a Colt M933, the shorter barrel version of the M4 with a flat top. So point out please how you've come to the conclusion that it's a 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Xi5mYXi0g watch the behind the scenes that talks all about the weapons. You get a pretty good look at the whole rifle the armorer holds up for you. You can see that the top rails are interrupted unlike the 416 which has an uninterrupted top rail. You can also see that on the KAC quad rail system, the holes are big circles instead of small slits. So this is in fact an M4 system with a short 10in barrel, but it could be called the M933 because of the shorter barrel. I know the lighting makes it harder to see the rails and the receiver and on top of that in the semi-dark you can almost see an uninterrupted top rail. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

And what do you mean "Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy." ? Someone on the discussion calling the M4 an AK? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::No, he means "like when we see on other pages people calling a gun the "AK-47" when in reality it is a Norinco Type-56", i.e. the example of technically mis-identifying a gun as a generic type when at IMFDB, we ID as close to the real platform as possible. That's all.

:::I have this movie on Blu Ray, and the Punisher's rifle is not an HK416. The lower receiver lacks H&K markings, and the production model 416 does not have a tan-colored "LE" six-position buttstock. The upper receiver make is harder to identify, but the quad-rail is definitely not the same type that comes standard on the 416. That being said said, this does appear to be a short-stroke piston upper, which is the same type of system used by the 416, but H&K is no longer the only company manufacturing such weapons.

:::Also, yes, it is true that the armorer might just be using "M4" as a generic term, but I don't think so. Actually, in the past few years, we've had a problem on IMFDB where everyone seems to think that any fancy-looking AR-type weapon which lacks a front sight post is an HK416 (I remember when the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page used to say that the Mark 12 Mod 0s in that movie were HK416s). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

:I remember when people also assume a fancy looking AR-15 to be a Barret M468 or the REC-7 as it is called now. Oh MT, how can you tell if it is using a stroke piston upper? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his M4A1]]
The Magazine on the 416 is shaped slightly differently than the M4. Also, it being fitted with the AG36 Grenade Launcher and not the M203. This makes it look like the HK416.

:I'm sorry, but you CLEARLY have no clue here. A 416 can take regular AR mags, and vice-versa. And the AG36 can be mounted to ANY AR model rifle (there are pictures of Canadian SF units using AG36s on their C7s and C8s). Furthermore, as our page says, the AG36 used on this movie was actually a Madbull AGX airsoft replica. This is not an HK416; the receiver has no H&K markings (when I watch my Blu-Ray copy), and the quad-rail handguard is clearly not the HK-style. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

And as I said earlier, if you go to the link to watch the special features of the weapons by the armorer, he holds it up and you can see the quad-rail handguard and the holes are not the same as the 416 and the top rail is interrupted unlike the 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Considering the barrel length, wouldn't it be more accurate to classify it as a Mark 18 CQB-R instead of an M4? I mean, unless someone can identify the suppressor and determine how much barrel it fits over (some suppressors simply screw onto the threads or the flash hider/muzzle brake itself, whereas others, like the OPS, Inc. 12th Model for the Mark 12 SPR, covers a good portion of the barrel when attached, making it seem shorter than it actually is). As most of the regulars here know, most M16A2s in movies have full auto lowers which would technically make them M16A3s, but we still classify them as M16A2s because that's what they're mimicking. And for all intents and purposes, the "M4" in this movie seems to be mimicking a CQB-R. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that it should be relabeled as an M4A1. This weapon is obviously an M4 that was highly customized for CQB, and not a Colt 933-PunisherDave

== AK74U is NOT an SMG ==

Somebody put this rifle in the SMG section most likely because he played too much call of duty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Talk:Punisher: War Zone

2010-05-12T16:41:37Z

PunisherDave: /* So? M4 or not? */

This is a quote from an interview with the military advisor of the film about how he outfitted Frank

"We used weapons based on need and back-story and nothing made up. All of the Punisher’s weapons currently exist and are being used in modern combat! The Punisher originated out of Vietnam, so his primary weapon in the film is an M-4 which he would feel the most comfortable with. To that I mounted a mini grenade launcher using thermo baric grenades for point detonations. I followed that up with the most powerful revolver on the planet, a Knight’s Armament/Smith&Wesson custom Model 500 .50 cal, in a breakaway leg holster as his back-up!
We created two fully automatic Beretta 92f handguns for close quarter combat.
In the opening of the film he uses ultra reliable H&K custom MP5’s in fully automatic that he carries in the small of his back, and for speed draws a H&K USP compact .45.
I also had a custom mini 13” Bolo machete combat knife created that he carries on a leg holster for hand to hand.
The result was modern weapons used in the modern time, but in full Punisher style!"
:Not a very good advisor, is he? The Smith & Wesson 500 is the most powerful production revolver, certainly not the most powerful on the planet. The .600 Nitro Revolver made by some guy that weighs about 12 pounds is the most powerful. Sounds like he's a little too excited about his decisions. Personally, this movie looks like it will suck, but I'll give it a chance. -GM
::The Pfeifer Zeliska .600 Nitro Express revolver is more powerful but it IS NOT a "production revolver" so sorry to break to you chief and your expertise.. but SW 500 "most powerful production revolver in the world today" so the Military Advisor is right.-D
:::You are aware I'm the one who said it's athe most powerful production revolver right? He said it was the most powerful in the world, but it isn't. I said the Pfeifer Zeliska was, but it isn't a production gun. Read more carefully next time. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
: Actually, in the comics Frank Castle states he hates the M16 and M4 rifles. He also always carries a m1911 and a pump gun in his coat and has a M249 on the backseat of his Hummer.-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 22:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::For me, I might not watch this movie really because Thomas Jane isn't in it and it looks like a bad generic action movie. I like how the first one showed how the Punisher really can do things we believe, but the moment I saw the trailer of the Punisher dropping from the ceiling, and spinning around with double MP5Ks...it makes it look like the action style is trying to be John Woo, but even that is over the top. The weapon of choices they give the Punisher movie, in my opinion, doesn't fit for how the Punisher should be. I understand the M4 with the grenade launcher and even the USP as the backup, but apparently, he carries all that in one action sequence. Seems a little too much stuff to carry, but hey, I'll give this movie a chance to JUST because I have to really see it to really critize it. -Ex
:Full auto Beretta Inoxs are very tactically stupid. A S&W 500 is not a back up gun, it's a primary. You don't carry an ankle gun that can down a bear. Personally, I thought the original Punisher comics sucked ass, too "comics" like. Have you ever read a seventies comic? They are terrible. Like a bad '50s safety video. Personally I liked the "Welcome Back, Frank" story which the 2004 film was based on. Thomas Jane was going for the "descent into madness" sort of look like DeNiro in ''[[Taxi Driver]]'', which is an interesting idea (although the punisher should not be a physchopath, that's bad). Castle's attachment to 1911s was one of my favorite elements of the story. And my LEAST favorite part of the old comics was the costume. The new story made it a sweet T-shirt, this one brings out the lame ass tights. I just don't have much faith in it. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::Are they INOXs or 92FS? I tried to distinguish what I thought was right on the page, but why would they switch Beretta models like that?-UW

:I want to know who this military adviser for the film is and tell him that most of his suggestions for a modern day Punisher arsenal is very stupid. Except the M4 with the GL. The S&W 500 and auto Berettas dual wielding and dual wielding MP5ks while spinning from a chandelier is very stupid and he's watched too many John Woo movies and even John Woo never had his actors spin around a chandelier like that... [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls. I can't say I agree with her vision, but I enjoyed the film for its action and cheesy performances. The 04 version was a serious film that was marred by a lot of stupid stuff and a lack of action. The 08 version was a campy attempt that didn't even try to be serious but had the brutality that the 04 movie lacked. It's sad that a film hasn't yet been made that's done the Punisher justice. I don't know how to post pictures, but put Punisher revolver into a search engine and it will bring up the sweet Knight's Armament custom piece that was made for the final fight, no matter how impractical it may be. A lot of stuff in War Zone was done simply for the sake of theatrics. -- ZG

:::''(I followed a lot of the details about this movie for a while before it came out. I think the military advisor was mostly responsible for teaching the handling of the weapons. While it's definitely possible he advised some of these weapon choices, it's more likely director Lexi Alexander made the final calls.)''
:::Well said, and not to burst anyone else's bubble but the ARMORER or Military Advisor doesn't make the final call on weapons ... EVER. It's the director. Period. I've had to bite my tongue several times (as the other armorers here can attest as well) when a Director picks a weapon that I would not have. But it's their decision to make. So stop blaming the advisors or armorers, when it's probably the director you need to yell at. Just a note! :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

: ''The Punisher '04 was plenty bloody and brutal, better constructed and better acted. Tom Jane's Frank Castle, quite frankly, would stomp mudholes right into the Jason Voorhees wannabe that Ray Stevenson either chose to portray or HAD to portray. And frankly, no amount of theatrics can act as an excuse for the absolute tripe that went down in this movie. Seemed like the man was holstering and drawing his pistols every other kill; I'm sorry, isn't he supposed to be former frickin' Special Forces? And for all of the whole "We're more faithful to the comics" crap, I'm not seeing it. I can't remember a single one of the MAX comics being as horrible as this movie ended up being. Total dreck. And I've got a few choice words for the military advisor on the movie, but I'm afraid that they're not suitable for even this little corner of the Internet.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 09:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

The theatrics, I think, were just another one of the films downfalls. I agree the 04 version was better acted. As for the construction of the films...eh, I've got too many thoughts to list. I'm glad you liked the 04 movie. The fact that both films have so many fans AND detractors just means there's so much territory still to cover, though I think the fans have been part of what tears these movies apart. I'm much more lenient on the film because I have no definitive view of the Punisher and I really have no particular need for material to come directly from the comics. I think we need to step away from the comics and focus on what makes a good movie, instead. Though I was just thinking earlier that War Zone was so goofy and flamboyant, if they were going to drop the Punisher into the Marvel Universe with the likes of Spiderman and Iron Man, this would pretty much be the Punisher I would expect them to use.
:^Do we have comments from a film maker here? Please comment more. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==They destroyed [[The Punisher]]==

The advisor said that the guns are full punisher style! Bullshit! they ruined the whole thing like the dropping from the ceiling with to SMGs part. And the real punisher doesn't use extremely modern looking weapons and dress up like that! This movie might have lots of action and all that but the style of the punisher is gone. The 1911s are a trademark of Frank Castle, so to Lionsgate, bring Thomas Jane back or the next Punisher suffers!-GunnutHk

:Thomas Jane was completely onboard for the second Punisher movie, but when the producers took too long getting a script up and changing actors, he decided to drop out. I think this movie would have been better if Thomas Jane was in it. And speaking of the 1911, we do see in the movie the Punisher taking a 1911, disasemebling it and cleaning it, but never use it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

:Agreed, Thomas Jane's take on Castle was far superior to Ray Stevenson's (no diss to Ray, though, as he's one of my favorite actors). And I also agree that the weapon selections (save for the M4A1, the SL8, and the MP5Ks) sucked. They should have given him 1911s instead of Beretta 92s or that 500 and put an M203 on the M4 instead of that AGX. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi everybody i was just wonering wher did he keep his usp compact?

the Punisher seems like a Vigilante slowly going down hill then a action hero rex095

Better than the Thomas Jane one there reason is Castle has no super powers but he has one that could be a super power his incredible pain tolerance he just doesn't care about pain he is a pure killing machine no regrets whatsoever and that's why this movie nailed it, Jane was a pussy with his t shirt and getting beaten all the time in this movie even though he got the shit kicked out of him by Jigsaws brother he didn't even flinch he didn't hesitate to kill micro cause that was what he had to do Punisher doesn't care about life if it can't be saved he wont try

:The Jane Punisher getting the shit kicked out of him by the Russian was straight out of the comics and very faithful to how it played on film. The fight with LBJ was frankly anemic, and boring. Also, if he doesn't care about a life that he knows can not be saved, then why the hell did he tell the ex-gangbanger who was missing limbs and had an axe in his chest not to die on him? That is a very un-Punisher thing to say.

:And that one shot in the 2004 film of Jane shooting a thug lying wounded on the ground without given him any notice or care, says a lot more about the character than killing 50 criminals in one scene.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

:My weigh in on the Russian fight is that I just wasn't a big fan of Castle getting beat up. I didn't like how it was done in the comic and the movie recreation was just so-so. If you've ever played the PS2 or Xbox Punisher game, that scenario plays out with Frank kicking the crap out of the Russian and tossing him out a window. I'd have liked that better. As for the injured ex-gangbanger, to me that showed a bit of character development from Frank, who had previously shown his distaste for the man, but after working with him had come to view him as an ally. This is something we'd probably never see in the comic, and I liked it. I did really like the shootout in the 04 Punisher, especially when he finished off the wounded guy, but I also felt we got the same type of brutal Punisher mindset when Stevenson threw McGinty onto an iron fence before jumping down on his neck. What I liked the most about the Dolph Lundgren and Ray Stevenson films is that they showed that the Punisher can viciously murder criminals and still be a GOOD GUY without dealing with all that anti-hero moral conundrum bullcrap. -- ZG

::Regarding the gangbanger thing, you may have liked but it was a completely out of character thing for him to say, even to an ally. They went for a cliched moment that was out of character.[[Special:Contributions/173.88.129.35|173.88.129.35]]

Also, scenes being constantly neonlighted got pretty annoying fast. I'm sure the idea sounds cool in paper, but is quite the opposite in practice. -AlkoTanko

Ok, tho i might not be the biggest military buff, i did a few years in the royal marines, but i do know comics and i know the punisher, bitch all you like about the stupid MP5 cieling deal , cus that was retarded, but this is garthe ennis's marvel max punisher, the punisher comics every tru punisher fan swears by. The 2004 tom jane job was based loosely on welcome back frank and punisher year one. Garth ennis wrote welcome back frank as a tester to get punisher made into a serious adult title and he self proclaimed hating the stupid bits in the comic such as the russian. Now you can say that tom janes version was any less tactially aware than stevensons, i mean he took a 40mm lancher into a nightclub and didnt even cover up his arms. Im not sayin i dont like the 2004 version, but it wasnt the punisher. Just angry op the movie, wrong actor, wrong location and a shity villain. So im gonna defend stevensons monosyallabic rough house, and dont forget kiddies, this is based on a comic book movie --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 03:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, anyone who has read Punisher knows he loses a lot of fights, it creates dramatic tension. If he won hands down every fight it would get boring, there needs to be a challenge. That's why every one of the Ennis stories had an epic fight with someone of Frank's aptitude. Second, Frank rarely gives a shit when people die, especially gangbangers reformed or not. The only one in recent memory was O'Brian. Third, they screwed up every villain from the comic. Pitsy was supposed to be an old tough bastard with a "Fuck you you fuckin fuck!" attitude, in this he was more a tag-along fuck-tard. McGinty was a torture loving psycho out for money, not a meth addict free-runner looking for a fun time. Tiberiu Bulat was an irredeemable rapist war criminal, not a kindly old man who had rules who you could make a deal wit. Where should i start with Jigsaw? That being said Stevenson was a pretty good Castle, and Wayne Knight was a pretty good Micro. the movie around them was what sucked, the over the top Jigsaw, the ceiling shooting, and Nicky Cavella the undercover cop instead of the maniac from the comic ruined this film. It talked a good game in the locker room but was shaky when it was time to put on the cleats.

What they should've done was just adapt some Punisher: Max stories, seriously, those're awesome. In fact, wouldn't it be great if directors could just get their head around the fact that they could simply take the comic DIRECTLY into a movie? Of course, then you have their egos to deal with, and then all hell breaks loose... I noticed someone said above that Frank doesn't like the M16/M4. This is true, but he actually does use it, because he likes the M203. And speaking of firearms, would a suppressor on a .50 cal revolver even do anything? I mean, don't revolvers have that gap between the barrel and cylinder, making supporessors useless besides hiding muzzle flash? And another thing; he puts a scope onto the smaller 500, but doesn't put one onto the longer 500, which has a picattiny rail built into it just for scopes? Holy shit, that's just sad. Will there ever be a movie that has a bunch of firearms, but doesn't screw them all up? Huh...you know, imagine that, if some director asks for advice from a site like this to make sure he knows what the hell he's doing. Now that I think about it, why don't the armorers ever tell them about that stuff? Whatever...--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 02:36, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

==Mini Crossbow==
In the beginning of the movie, the Punisher uses a very small fold-out crossbow to take down a guard at the docks. Is this even a real weapon?

- Wade Wilson

=unknowns=
'''[moved from main page]''' --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 06:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
== Mircrochip's gun racks ==
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
Right side, very top is a (very) shorty G3. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:20, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Punisher2gunrack3.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

==Guns in this pic?==
[[Image:Pwz lair.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Steyr TMP]]?

*m1911 pistol
*mp5
*beretta 92 two tone( maybe a elite II)
*m4a1
*rare.22 type suppresed pistol
== Unknowns ==

[[Image:Punishergun5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
I see the MP5Ks with removed foregrips, Springfield XDs, M1911s and a full size MP5.-[[User:GunnutHk|GunnutHk]]

Actually I think the one on the bottom right is a Smith & Wesson M&P.

[[Image:Punishergun7.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
::probaly a Charter Arms Snub

i don't think charter makes a hammerless.
[[Image:Punishergun8.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Micro/Mini Uzi? That looks like an Uzi stock
:It's a Smith & Wesson M76. You can see the stock and the hand grip. If your smart.
[[Image:Punishergun9.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
:Ruger Mk II?

that is a 44 or 357 automag-Doomsayer64

==Revenge or Punishment?==

Okay, the Punisher punishes people right? He began punishing them as a ''form'' of revenge, but still, why would they write "Vengeance has a new name" on the dvd cover? That's kind of inaccurate...does anyone agree? --[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 14:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I think they meant that vengeance has a new name which is Frank Castle

== So? M4 or not? ==

Reading the comments, I never found a streight answer. Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy. So, when the armourer says 'M4' I doubt he means it. It's definatly an HK416. Please change it. I beg of you.

:Tell me your evidence that it is an HK416. Unfortunately none of the screen caps on the page gives us the lower receiver. It could be a Colt M933, the shorter barrel version of the M4 with a flat top. So point out please how you've come to the conclusion that it's a 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Xi5mYXi0g watch the behind the scenes that talks all about the weapons. You get a pretty good look at the whole rifle the armorer holds up for you. You can see that the top rails are interrupted unlike the 416 which has an uninterrupted top rail. You can also see that on the KAC quad rail system, the holes are big circles instead of small slits. So this is in fact an M4 system with a short 10in barrel, but it could be called the M933 because of the shorter barrel. I know the lighting makes it harder to see the rails and the receiver and on top of that in the semi-dark you can almost see an uninterrupted top rail. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

And what do you mean "Everyone seems to call it an 'Ak47' when it may be a chinese copy." ? Someone on the discussion calling the M4 an AK? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
::No, he means "like when we see on other pages people calling a gun the "AK-47" when in reality it is a Norinco Type-56", i.e. the example of technically mis-identifying a gun as a generic type when at IMFDB, we ID as close to the real platform as possible. That's all.

:::I have this movie on Blu Ray, and the Punisher's rifle is not an HK416. The lower receiver lacks H&K markings, and the production model 416 does not have a tan-colored "LE" six-position buttstock. The upper receiver make is harder to identify, but the quad-rail is definitely not the same type that comes standard on the 416. That being said said, this does appear to be a short-stroke piston upper, which is the same type of system used by the 416, but H&K is no longer the only company manufacturing such weapons.

:::Also, yes, it is true that the armorer might just be using "M4" as a generic term, but I don't think so. Actually, in the past few years, we've had a problem on IMFDB where everyone seems to think that any fancy-looking AR-type weapon which lacks a front sight post is an HK416 (I remember when the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page used to say that the Mark 12 Mod 0s in that movie were HK416s). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

:I remember when people also assume a fancy looking AR-15 to be a Barret M468 or the REC-7 as it is called now. Oh MT, how can you tell if it is using a stroke piston upper? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

::I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:PunisherM4.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Castle firing his M4A1]]
The Magazine on the 416 is shaped slightly differently than the M4. Also, it being fitted with the AG36 Grenade Launcher and not the M203. This makes it look like the HK416.

:I'm sorry, but you CLEARLY have no clue here. A 416 can take regular AR mags, and vice-versa. And the AG36 can be mounted to ANY AR model rifle (there are pictures of Canadian SF units using AG36s on their C7s and C8s). Furthermore, as our page says, the AG36 used on this movie was actually a Madbull AGX airsoft replica. This is not an HK416; the receiver has no H&K markings (when I watch my Blu-Ray copy), and the quad-rail handguard is clearly not the HK-style. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

And as I said earlier, if you go to the link to watch the special features of the weapons by the armorer, he holds it up and you can see the quad-rail handguard and the holes are not the same as the 416 and the top rail is interrupted unlike the 416. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Considering the barrel length, wouldn't it be more accurate to classify it as a Mark 18 CQB-R instead of an M4? I mean, unless someone can identify the suppressor and determine how much barrel it fits over (some suppressors simply screw onto the threads or the flash hider/muzzle brake itself, whereas others, like the OPS, Inc. 12th Model for the Mark 12 SPR, covers a good portion of the barrel when attached, making it seem shorter than it actually is). As most of the regulars here know, most M16A2s in movies have full auto lowers which would technically make them M16A3s, but we still classify them as M16A2s because that's what they're mimicking. And for all intents and purposes, the "M4" in this movie seems to be mimicking a CQB-R. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I think that it should be relabeled as an M4A1. This weapon is obviously an M4 that was highly customized for CQB, and not a Colt 933-PunisherDave

== AK74U is NOT an SMG ==

Somebody put this rifle in the SMG section most likely because he played too much call of duty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Punisher: War Zone

2010-04-12T14:25:49Z

PunisherDave: /* Heckler & Koch SL8 */

Punisher: War Zone

2010-04-12T14:23:47Z

PunisherDave: /* Colt 1911A1 GI */

Punisher: War Zone

2010-04-12T14:21:06Z

PunisherDave: /* Colt 1911A1 GI */

Talk:Resident Evil 5

2010-04-12T14:19:12Z

PunisherDave: /* Real-life attributes */

== Additon Weapons: ==

Though not seen but confirmed: (Asking for confirmation on other weapons.)

Six to Seven pistols can be obtained including a .357 magnum possibly a Colt Python.

Currently there is seven pistols (including magnum type weapons), these include the Beretta 92FS, H&K USP, SIG P226, Beretta M93R, S&W M29, Desert Eagle, S&W M500. Unknown weapons such as the Beretta PX4 and other weapons have not yet been found. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]]

There are several secret weapons that can be obtained as well. According to a recent Gamepro article, these weapons range from new to old tech. It is unknown how many there are.

Also, several shotguns (unknown number) have been confirmed. This includes a single barreled pump action (possibly the one we've seen in pictures.), a semi auto and a double barreled shotgun. It has also been confirmed there will be a three barreled shotgun that can do extreme damage.

There are roughly four shotguns currently, the Ithaca Model 37, Benelli M3 and Striker which is currently named the Jail Breaker, the Hydra shotgun is the fictional shotgun with 3 barrels. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]]

All weapons can be upgraded much like the weapons in Resident Evil 4 in terms of capacity, damage, fire rate and reload rate.

== My biggest problem with this game ==

The intense gunplay is cool and fun, but when you come face to face with enemies with AK-74s and RPGS and turrets, having the ability to walk while shooting will go a long way, but the creators didn't want to do that because it takes away the intense quick aiming you have to do. Bullcrap. They did it because they don't want their game to feel like Metal Gear Solid 4 or Gears of Wars. I wouldn't have made this complaint if all enemies don't shoot back with full auto assault rifles. Bows and arrows and crossbows are ok, but when AKs are shooting at you, I like a better cover system and moving while shooting or aiming so I can peer around corners and take out threats. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 12:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Ditto here, there is nothing more frustraiting to just sit there and try to shoot back when one has trained IRL to shoot while moveing. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]]
:I have to agree. While I hugely enjoyed the game, having to freeze while shooting kind of sucked. However, it'd probably best to stay put when blasting away with the Gatling Gun. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 06:16, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
::I have to ''disagree'' 100%. Resident Evil is supposed to be a survival horror game, not Metal Gear Solid, Halo, or Gears of War. It's ''not'' supposed to be a shooter. The franchise I loved for so long has begun to die since the day RE4 was released thanks to incorporating too many shooter elements. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:10, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

:look, there's survival horror in the sense that you are having to feel the horror and surviving it. But the gameplay is not realistic. And RE5 is more action than horror. It's saying Alien is horror and Aliens is action horror. RE5 is more action oriented and should have the capabilities of the 3rd person, on the move shooting. Look, if the creators wanted more Survival horror in RE5, they should have made the theme and story less action pack genre and more like the previous games before 4. Give it a more scare aspect. Fighting hordes of enemies isn't horror, it's annoying [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

RE4 should have never been made. How the HELL did they get RE4 after making RE1 GC (the gold standard of RE survival-horror; RE2 exceeds it in its novelty of new elements, but RE1 GC did everything by the book and perfectly), Zero, and Outbreak? Anyway, it's almost stupid easy to kill the AK gunmen in RE5, because they waste ammunition on cover (letting you headshot them while they reload) and don't fire while moving (if you can't beat RE5's AK AI, then you probably aren't good at GoW or any other shooter either). They get the same HP as standard Majini, so all you need to do is save grenades and just blind-toss them. I liken RE4/5 to the RE movies in that while they have the same "context", they just suck as RE games.

It doesn't really make a difference anyway, because now Capcom has to reboot the entire canon after TWO action-horror games. With the success of LIN and the dismal failure of RE5 in terms of popular approval (even critics are panning it, despite the fact that it's basically RE4 with all of the action-horror elements that they wanted; one site called RE4 "Game of the Decade" while making no mention of RE5), hopefully they do a total reboot and get rid of this action-horror nonsense.

:I haven't heard much about "Lost in Nightmare." How is it better than base RE5?

:I'll agree that the REmake on Gamecube was plenty scary, given elements like the Crimson Heads arising out of downed zombies you either didn't headshot, blow the knees off of, or burn, or "itChy iTchy sCoTT caMe uGLy FAce so KIlleD hiM. taSTy," or truly classic monsters like Lisa the Mutant, but you have to admit a lot of the difficulty in that game was because of the very wonky controls and the fact that you really couldn't aim very well. Those controls should stay in the past where they rightfully belong--I don't think gamers of today would take very kindly to not being able to dodge zombies due to poor controls. Sure wish we had a full-fledged remake of RE1 with the entire STARS team with today's tech though.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

The controls are used as part of the cinematic-emulating pacing elements; that's why you can't move while you shoot or be able to directly aim for the head in RE1 GC. Don't think of them as merely games that are under the RE title, think of them as zombie-horror pieces in their own right. By definition, RE1 GC did practically everything right in terms of creating a zombie-horror atmosphere; the camera angles that acted like the ones in Romero's Living Dead, the lack of offensive capability, the shock of the protagonist characters, inclusion of human flaws as part of the game's theme (Wesker's hubris, Brad's cowardice), and overall ominous environment is still the best the series has in terms of an actual model.

And in reality, the controls have absolutely nothing to do with the "control" problem. The only difference between RE5 PS3 and RE1 PS3's controls are the Knife button and the Quick-Access button; the difference is the camera. Everyone flips for the OtS, but no one ever pays attention to the fact that it totally DESTROYS a game's cinematic value. What kind of movie do you know of that follows the protagonist around from 2 feet behind and 2 feet above? If used in a horror game in particular, it gives the player too much control and inherently destabilizes the effect altogether. Dead Space, which is the only real example of a workable SH game, only succeeded for its novelty; in order to use OtS, they had to balance the game against the player in other aspects, such as using claustrophobic-tight areas and exotic enemies, which took the average OtS player by surprise. Dead Space 2 isn't looking too good (as expected), because they reprised the protagonist as "taking the fight to them" and added rocket boots (which means that the player is going to face zero gravity with both the advantages of OtS/boots and prior experience, turning it into a mere formality), along with the fact that they have to TOP their previous game's enemy design to challenge the player's OtS advantage sufficiently. Silent Hill's take on OtS is obviously a one-time deal; it also did all of the horror elements properly, but its style cannot be repeated for important reasons (one, it takes away the combat aspect entirely, which is, as you said, a novelty nowadays, and two, it's more of an isolated intensity; it plays a unique way, and any further encroachment would just cheapen it).

The camera was designed to encourage the player to evade or avoid enemies instead of directly attacking them (which is how a counterpart in the Living Dead series would react as well). Just like in the Living Dead series, the protagonist has a difficulty getting a bead on enemies and is disoriented mentally relative to their situation.

LIN is a fair bit better than the base game in terms of survival-horror because it puts much greater emphasis on puzzle solving (granted, it's no RE3 or CV, but it's better than RE4 and eons ahead of RE5; some puzzles actually require some degree of examination) and greatly de-emphasizes gunplay (you start with Beretta 92Fs, and there is only one "chapter", meaning you cannot upgrade or purchase weaponry to improve firepower). You still have OtS, which still handicaps the survival-horror, but it is much better.

== Weapon Images ==
Can anyone get the Images for the weapons from the weapon upgrade screen that's between the chapters. I play it on the 360 and whatever screencaps I can make would be digital pics of a TV screen. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 06:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:Thank's ProtoAuthor for adding the in game weapon Images. I'm going to check my guide and start adding the various in game titles to those images.
::You're welcome. I just found those online and figured the article could use them. Hadn't even read your request, to be honest. -protoAuthor 19:32, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

== SVD Dragunov is not a sniper rifle ==

Why do folks here keep confusing it as such? It is a marksman/designated marksman rifle.
:There isn't much distinction between DMRs and sniper rifles in terms of gameplay. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:12, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
::It's classified as a "sniper rifle" ingame anyway.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:21, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

:The SVD has always been referred to as a sniper rifle. A DMR is basically as assault rifle with semi auto only and a specific barrel for better accuracy. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
The russians themselves said it was a DMR, are you discrediting the makers? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:14, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, but the U.S. Military and historians for years called it a sniper rifle. It WAS used in that role in Vietnam by NVA Snipers (as well as M91/30s) It CAN be used in such a role, however, in recent times, much more accurate (and larger caliber) weapons have been built. Calling it a sniper rifle is not ridiculous, though one can always make a note if they really want to be ultra specific about it on the various gun and movie pages. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:42, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it really doesn't make much difference in-game. They all seem to have the same inherent accuracy, virtually no bullet drop, and every one of them is pre-zeroed to hit the same POI. So, it really doesn't matter what you call it. Although I find it really odd how this article says the the 7.62x54R has less power than the .308 Win based 7.62x51mm. I mean, you can SEE that the Soviet round has 3mm more case capacity, which means that it has a greater possible power level. In-game, the Russian round is the same as the .308 Win round, but that could be explained by downloading it. Again, I suppose it really doesn't make a difference.

==Gold Edition==
there is going to be a new gold edition to Resident Evil 5 and i think there might be some new characters and possibly some new guns

[http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/residentevil/images/d/da/Wesker_samurai_edge.jpg Erm...]--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 05:56, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

The only aspect of the Gold edition I like is the mansion level which is a return back to Resident Evil 1 where you have limited ammo and a more darker aspect. It's more scary than RE5 would be. You can even change the camera to a fixed position like the RE games of old. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

New guns: Barry's Samurai Edge, Barry's Revolver.

:Too bad this isn't for the PC version [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
Barry's revolver only makes an appearance when he does a special move, it isn't an equipable weapon.

It should still be added to the page though.

== H&K P8 ==

It is a P8. Look at the safety.--[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 00:42, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

2009-11-11T23:11:28Z

PunisherDave: /* Heckler & Koch USP45 */