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	<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&amp;feedformat=atom&amp;user=Mpe2010</id>
	<title>Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]</title>
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	<updated>2026-04-15T17:45:42Z</updated>
	<subtitle>User contributions</subtitle>
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		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=961795</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=961795"/>
		<updated>2015-09-18T04:22:32Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: Replaced content with &amp;quot;KTT LTF
FIDIL 
GTIFTI&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;KTT LTF&lt;br /&gt;
FIDIL &lt;br /&gt;
GTIFTI&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dawn_(2012)&amp;diff=634900</id>
		<title>Talk:Red Dawn (2012)</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Red_Dawn_(2012)&amp;diff=634900"/>
		<updated>2012-11-28T04:42:53Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;WTH? Did a 3 year old write this page?&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well the median age of the average IMFDB user is getting lower all the time ;)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:16, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I think it would be more advisable to wait until a teaser or official set photos emerge before creating this page. After all, the release date is more than nine months away. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 22:07, 26 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I fixed the page's spelling and grammar issues.&lt;br /&gt;
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==AK as seen in promo pic==&lt;br /&gt;
Is that an AKM with black synthetic furniture?  Should I take an inventory Movie AKM and put black AK74 style furniture on it and photograph it for this page?    Or is the gun something else?  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:50, 26 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Please do.-protoAuthor 01:28, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think it may be something else. It may be something in the AK 100 series or some other varient. We need a better look at the weapons in question.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 01:12, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Can American armorers actually get AK-103s?  I didn't think they could without difficulty.  If I had to guess, the weapons in this movie are probably AKMs with synthetic furniture and AK-74 flash hiders.  There was another picture posted on the forum which showed the guns more clearly, and they had the ribbed receiver covers (AK-103s come from the factory with smooth).  Plus, why would armorers go to the trouble of getting AK-103s?  Wouldn't it be more cost-effective to just vismod AKMs? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:27, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's more cost effective to modify existing (and registered pre-86) AKMs with AK-103 parts kits ;)  Doesn't mean *I* will do it, because it's a lot of work for no current reason, but I can't see a reason why others would not be able to do so.  It does NOT look like a 103 but then I have not seen better pics from the production. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:11, 27 January 2010 (UTC)  (correction) Title II manufacturers (Like CW) can build their own from the numerous AK receivers being built in this country and complete it with Parts kits.  Again, I have no definitive indications of what these are, but there are tons of new types of AKs being imported (now only European style guns), which  is a BIG change from the 1980s when there were only Chinese guns. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:13, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Here are a few pictures of the rifles for ID(more than likely, these are non-firing props since the muzzle brakes and front sight appear to be filled in): &lt;br /&gt;
:::::Those are DEFINITELY resin/rubber castings of AKMS with synthetic furniture and AK74 style muzzle brakes.  BTW: those young Asian American Airsofter Extras who look kinda young compared to the hardened look of real PLA soldiers (hahaha) are wearing fake PLA CAMO that looks REALLY GOOD! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:42, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::http://img163.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=81311432742685146627835.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
::::Also, an AKMSU with an interesting forearm:&lt;br /&gt;
::::http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3010/reddawnset4.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I think those are probably AKMs (most likely Maadis) dressed up as AK-103s.  The receivers look pretty worn...almost as though they've been in the armory's inventory for 25+ years.  Although what MPM mentioned (built-up guns from parts kits) is also possible, the AK-103 resembles the AKM so closely externally (besides the furniture and flash hider) that vismoding the older gun seems like the easiest thing to do.  I'll have to ask around and see if anyone knows who supplied the weapons for this show. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:21, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::The Gas block on these guns look a lot like the AK74 style, which is common on a lot of the recent AK rifles being sold in this country now (a lot were built on parts kits from Europe).  The straight 90 degree down gas block style of the AK74 is seen on all manner of AKs nowadays.  As a note, it's a pain in the butt to remove a gas block on an existing AK only to replace it with another style of gas block for a movie, and I doubt that the production will pay for the hassle, so they may be Title II converted European style AKS (with American receivers). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:44, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::Are you sure your eye didn't slip?  Those guns do not look to me like they have the AK-74-style gas block.  And yes, some of them are definitely rubber castings of the live-fire weapons, which is I guess what we'd expect for a production with dozens/hundreds of extras who carry weapons. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:29, 28 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::AKMSU forearm looks like it might be a KAC AK RAS. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:51, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::: That's Quad-rail from KCI [http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/7889/2655074.jpg]&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::: This is cool, I hadn't heard about this remake until just now. One thing I noticed was that all these extras have good grip and trigger finger control... Except that guy with the carbine with the odd rails (all AKs with rails look weird to me), he's got his finger VERY on the trigger with with other hand OVER THE MUZZLE. Good job... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:58, 23 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Fan Photos==&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a few photos that show some of the weapons seen during the film's production, but they are all unofficial pictures taken by extras/bystanders on the film set. AFAIK there are no official set pictures that have been released, so would there be any problems if I post them?--[[User:Markit|Markit]] 02:48, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Those are still unauthorized images.  Any person can take pictures on sets.  I had my camera confiscated from the set of [[Back to the Future Part II|BTTF2]], because there was a lock down on ANY unauthorized images that had not been cleared through the studio.  So in answer to your question: I would say not.  Also undercover fan pics tend to suck in quality.  But posting links to them to aid us in identifying guns is okay.  But I don't want ANY movie studio lawyer seeing IMFDB as a place which holds the image on their server (which is what happens when you upload a pic). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Okay, parts of this movie were filmed in Royal Oak, MI, and I still have lots of college friends who live there. Lots of them took photos. Theoretically, let's say they were filming on their street, right in front of their house. If they stood on their front lawn, or just opened a window and snapped a photo, is it still an unauthorized image? It's one thing if you go to a set, but what happens when a set comes to you? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:50, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::In that case, Image:Red dawn photos 008.jpg in the main page should be removed because it is an unauthorized picture. I will also post some links on the talk page if anyone is interested. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:36, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Red dawn photos 008.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Production still of extras posing as PLAGF soldiers armed with an unknown AKM variant.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Airsoft rifles guys, they just didn't bother to use the correct 5.45mm magazines.&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=139_24_91&amp;amp;products_id=1258&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Oh, great, not the old &amp;quot;movies always use airsoft guns and CGI muzzle flashes&amp;quot; rumors again... -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:13, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Who is the anonymous poster who wrote that?  Also movies have and DO use Airsoft for non firing scenes, but I saw shaky, blurry, crappy bootleg video of a shootout and they were DEFINITELY rocking and rolling with blanks during one sequence.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:39, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I believe I've seen that footage, too. Those definitely aren't airsoft. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:55, 27 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I wish they kill these occupants in most brutal ways. Like burning, decapitating, riding over with a tank etc.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::WTF? User:178.92.110.168, you been drinking too much coffee or popping pills or something? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:37, 28 January 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Is this movie low budget or something? Because I can't find any trailers for it other than fake crap on youtube using PLA parade footage and GI Joe footage.&lt;br /&gt;
I can see why they'd use AK-103s though, the airsoft or dummy QBZ-95s are very expensive. Gotta give them credit, at least they used more asians than Last Airbender.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Are asians expensive too nowadays?&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually these guys are wearing the latest PLA digital camo, that itself cannot be cheap, and they obviously done their research.  Don't know why they got AKs...maybe it's suppose to represent Type-03 or something.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 21:18, 28 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:They've AKs because Norinco guns, like the PLA's standard service rifle the QBZ-95, can't be imported into the United States. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:32, 28 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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To the guy who posted below the pic, you can't put an airsoft 7.62 magazine in an airsoft 5.45 AK any more than you could with a real one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:58, 23 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Regarding some other pics of the vehicles that are supposedly going to be in the movie, are they at least based on Chinese vehicles or just US Army vehicles with the Chinese flag painted on them?&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:BigD|BigD]]  18:09, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The Hummer H1's could be a stand-in for the Brave Warrior, which is basically a knockoff of the H1.  Try wrapping that around your head --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 22:22, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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With airsoft, you can stick the 7.62 mags in a 5.45 gun and vice versa. looks od, but still works fine--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 23:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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China has its own version of the HMMWV, look up the Dongfeng EQ2050-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 03:43, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I wonder if the knowledgeable American's gonna know that the EQ2050 is a bona-fied LICENSED clone instead of bashing it as a knock-off? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 02:29, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Are those AK-74M's.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]] 11:00, 7 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:No, they're AKMs with black plastic furniture. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:48, 7 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Remaking a great movie is a bad idea ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Why is Hollywood making remakes of all the good movies? What's next? A remake of &amp;quot;Apocalypse Now&amp;quot;? - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 04:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's debatable whether Red Dawn is really a great movie, so a better question might be why a movie that is so reflective of a particular era and its cultural landscape was remade when perceptions and fears about the world have changed. Regardless, I am still interested in seeing how this film turns out, if it ever gets a theatrical release. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 05:13, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Agreed. It seems like 80's movie are always difficult to remake. Movies like Ferris Bueller, Teen Wolf, and Weird Science simply cannot work now. The same applies to horror movies.&lt;br /&gt;
I'm gonna go see this movie, but my expectations ain't too high.&lt;br /&gt;
R.I.P Patrick Swayze.&lt;br /&gt;
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I just know when a movie is going to suck and this is not looking good. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 17:22, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course it'll suck, the only trailers I've seen are mockups and fan photos. Was this even mentioned at this year's Comic-Con?&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually, i thought the movie was pretty good, i was able to see a pre-release showing on base. A perk of being in the military, i guess. Plus they did keep it pretty true to the original story line [[User Rotncorpse]] 21:33 29 October&lt;br /&gt;
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does anyone actually know that the original red dawn was critically panned, so remaking a panned film wouldn't sound like such a bad idead to a studio head, its probably going to have the same reaction as the first one, but with one difference, it won't be people complaining about violence or political issues, it will be the remaking of a cult classic without your permission, sorry but it happens.&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] ([[User talk:Pistolpete|talk]]) 01:06, 30 October 2012 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Movie Release ==&lt;br /&gt;
The bad news, if you can call it that, is that the release of the flick may be delayed indefinitely.  Since it seems MGM is in the midst of possible bankruptcy proceedings and since they are the parent studio of the makers of the movie it may be some time before it sees the light of day.  If at all.  --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.themovieinsider.com/m4854/red-dawn/&lt;br /&gt;
:There are two shots of armored vehicles on that site. One looks like a fake M1 Abrams, and the other is some Red Chinese armored car. The M1 looks like it might be the same fake M1 from Courage Under Fire, or at least is also based on the Centurion. (Notice the number of wheels, and the gap between the second and third wheels.) As for the armored car, I have no idea, although the turret looks really fake. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:54, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://i0.tmi.tc/images/p/600/13498.jpg]&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://i0.tmi.tc/images/p/600/13497.jpg]&lt;br /&gt;
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The Abrams is definitly a fake. However, it looks more like it is based on a Cheiftain chassis, mainly due to the curvature of the front hull/glassis plate, the placement of the six roadwheels, and the height of it. The armoured car...your guess is as good as mine, because unlike the Abrams, this isn't a former peice of Brit kit reconditioned.&lt;br /&gt;
:Now that you mention it, yes, I agree. The Chieftain has the same gap between the second and third wheels, and the Chieftain turret is flatter as well, which would make it easier to adapt into an Abrams. But I had always heard that Chieftains were a pain in the butt mechanically, and you'd think productions would prefer something that was easier and thus cheaper to maintain over something that looked more right for the part.  --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::IIRC, the &amp;quot;Abrams&amp;quot; is actually a modified Centurion tank, one of several ex-Australian examples which were originally created for use in ''[[Courage Under Fire]]''. The armored car is made by General Purpose Vehicles of Michigan (who usually build armored vehicles for law enforcement use) and is only lightly modified with the addition of a turret. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:16, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Don't think it's a Centurion, the drive sprockets look wrong. Also notice the fake Abrams fume extractor is mounted way too far forward on the gun; they'd only need to do that if they had to hide the fume extractor of the Chieftain's gun, which is there. Looking at images from Courage Under Fire, those fake Abrams mount theirs roughly where it should be on an Abrams, nearer to the tank than to the muzzle. Look here: [http://www.armyrecognition.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2243 link] and you can see the drive sprocket on the Courage Under Fire tank is almost the same size as one of the roadwheels, much bigger than the one on the pictured fake Abrams. It's almost certainly a Chieftain. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 08:00, 27 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Man, I would have thought you guys would have been cheesed more that the movie may not see the light of day any time soon!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:00, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I have to admit I'm not terribly excited by this movie. I'm against remakes in general, I really can't understand how you can remake Red Dawn, considering the Cold War has been over for about twenty years now. Back in the eighties, the Soviets were waist deep in Afghanistan, we were slinging Olympic boycotts back and forth, and the president actually referred to them as the Evil Empire. To the kids growing up back then, the Soviets WERE evil. They oppressed the freedom loving mujahadeen of Afghanistan, they shot down our airliners, they teamed up with the Iron Sheik against Hulk Hogan, they held our POWS in Vietnam, and dammit, they killed Apollo Creed (IT WAS ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE AN EXHIBITION! THROW THE GODDAMN TOWEL!) And that was just the eighties. The Berlin Airlift, Korea, Vietnam, Prague Spring, the Cuban missile crisis, Khrushchev promising to bury us, duck and cover drills, those were just chapters in our history books. Now, I'm the last man to defend Red China (the fact that I still refer to them as Red China should tell you something.) But let's face it, what's the worst thing they've done to us? Cheat in women's gymnastics? Sell us lead-laden toys? Give the Houston Rockets false hope? They downed one of our planes, sure, but the only person who actually died was one of their guys. Tiananmen square was twenty years ago, and they've been oppressing Tibet since before anyone here was born. They need us and we need them. Like it or not, we are economically dependent on them, and they are on us. As much as I'd like to see American troops roll into Beijing and tear down that red flag, war makes absolutely no sense, from an economic, political, or security standpoint. The only ally that they're threatening is Taiwan, and we're such a good ally, we won't even recognize them as a country. In summary, the perceived threat of a Soviet invasion was real, as Soviet aggression was real. Our government and the media, backed with forty years of history, fed our hysteria over the Soviet Union. There's no perceived threat from Red China. That same government and media are bending over backwards to accommodate the reds. They might as well remade Red Dawn with us being invaded by Belgium. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Coincidentally, I ran across this article today. Apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way. Twenty years after the Cold War ended, Russians are still the boogeymen! [http://kotaku.com/5616543/americans-get-russia-fighting-the-us] --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:52, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Um...tell us how you really feel?!?--[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:18, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I would've been excited if the remake was still set in the 80's, and all the politics were the same. You can update the cast, crew, film technology, but you can't update the politics. Another film that can't be remade today: The Day After. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:39, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You know, to be fair, the last Jack Ryan book by Tom Clancy did have China as the main military villain with a credible nuclear threat. Granted the possibility of a Chinese/Russian alliance is slim to none but the original movie was a stretch in and of itself --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:44, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Well, Clancy also had a novel that had us going to war with Japan, so yeah. The original was a stretch, but the threat of Central America falling to the reds was very real back then, or at least we were made to believe it was. Whether is was truly realistic or not is not relevant, it was our believe that it was realistic that counted, and it's that culture of fear and antagonism that can't be reproduced by replacing the Soviets with Red China. Not only would a remake set in the 80's work better, I think it would be more popular. There's a lot of 80's nostalgia. I think people would rather relive the good old days rather than face the fact that the Red Chinese are a power to be reckoned with.  --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 01:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::The problem with that though is the Chinese were not as big a threat in the 80s as they are today.  Their military was less advanced then, as was their economy, and we still had our massive Cold War arsenel. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::No, I meant using the Soviet Union of the eighties rather than the Red Chinese of today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:04, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Oh, nevermind. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Well having been a teenager in the 80's (born 1968) and enlisting the first time in 86 (when the Soviets seemed like or were still a very real threat to the U.S.A.) I have to admit that I miss the old U.S.S.R. Hell I and many others were actually happy in the late 70's and early 80's when the U.S. and Red China began to have a thaw in their relationship. Gave us a nice counterweight to the Soviets. Anybody remember that? sure there was that whole nuclear armageddon hangin over our heads, but now I realize that there was more clarity in the world. Now it's just a fucking muddled mess. Oh well. I'm going to watch my Chinese made television. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 20:27, 12 December 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I was born in the Soviet Union in 1969. In 1970-80 years it was impossible - the production in the USSR the film about how the U.S. attacked us. A man who would propose to make such a film would be called simply an idiot. And in years when the authorities Khrushchev or Stalin, the man who proposed to make such film is simply put into prison. I think that the Soviet government feared the U.S. more than the U.S. feared the Soviet Union. But even the Communists did not humiliate himself in front of their own people so stupid movies. &lt;br /&gt;
And what we have now? Russian men 20 years ago gave a kick the communists ass (which, I remind you, did not create a crappy movie about the Americans).&lt;br /&gt;
But it turns out that our country is in the minds of Americans remain almost the same threat as before (at least - in the minds of the creators of Red Dawn 2, as well as those people on whom it is targeted). What idiot came up with a scenario in which Russia may team up with China against the United States? What idiot did not spare the money to create this wretched film? We have only one common enemy - it is Islamic terrorism. Just do not need to shit in the peoples heads in the 21 century…  I apologize for my bad English [[User:Flexo|Flexo]] 16:55, 1 October 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Movie Release Update ==&lt;br /&gt;
Was just checking out a web site for movie trailers and the release date for this is now listed as April 2011.  --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 14:46, 11 December 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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So the title should be changed to 2011 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:33, 11 December 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Agreed.  Even the IMDB page now refers to it as Red Dawn (2011).  --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 06:02, 12 December 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
== First Cast Photo Released ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Red_Dawn_2011.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The new Wolverines in a promotional image from Red Dawn (2011).]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I wish I had that kind of trigger discipline in high school.  On other notes, it looks like they're using the generic airsoft AKs that the Chinese extras are using, and who the hell is that third female? --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 18:32, 4 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The girl on the left is Julie, who is played by Alyssa Diaz. It also looks as though Chris Hemsworth is holding an AKMSU and Josh Hutcherson (kneeling on the right) is holding a M249 SAW. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:47, 4 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey! It's the rejects from the cast auditions for Firefly! Hughjefender.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Really? Is that Josh Peck standing next to the blond?-[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Bad guys now North Korean ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Apparently MGM is changing the bad guys in this film to North Korean rather than Chinese, so as to not miss out on the Chinese market. Apparently they need to change the opening voice over, two scenes and CG Korean logos over the Chinese on the vehicles. [http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=75300]&lt;br /&gt;
What is the main infantry weapon of the North Korean army, is it an AK-74 copy? If so, then this change actually makes the weapons used make slightly more sense, albeit accidentally. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:01, 16 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's actually more funny that Homefront had the same idea. So people who don't want to do research would wonder is Homefront a game adaption of the remake. The Homefront developers early on stated they didn't think China is &amp;quot;that scary&amp;quot; at all and they picked a more modern and powerful Korean military and they don't even us AKs. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:32, 18 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Coincidentally, John Milius wrote the original Red Dawn and worked on Homefront. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] ([[User talk:Animalmenace|talk]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can only imagine the pain in the ass that the writers of the remake now have to do to change this all up. And now the special effects guys have to digitally erase all references and symbolism to China and re-paint over with North Korean symbolism (And the end result will look like crap because the original enemy was the Chinese, and now all the Chinese actors that they got for the filming process won't even match the modified North Korean symbols). But if you ask me, I think they need to drop this project right now, and put it off for a later release date to fix up these new changes a little bit more. Especially since the studios are so eager to change everything from Chinese to North Korean just to be &amp;quot;politically correct&amp;quot; and to not offend China since they are a &amp;quot;trading partner&amp;quot; to the United States...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Movie studios have no backbone these days. Seriously MGM, STOP this project now, put it off for a later release date, and fix it up a little so that way it doesn't look like crap in the long run, and show us all that you can do the original Red Dawn justice with this remake. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 19:04, 19 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:''Especially since the studios are so eager to change everything from Chinese to North Korean just to be &amp;quot;politically correct&amp;quot; and to not offend China since they are a &amp;quot;trading partner&amp;quot; to the United States...''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:From what I have heard, &amp;quot;political correctness&amp;quot; had nothing to do with the decision. It was simply because China is now one of the major market places for American cinema, and obviously, releasing a movie with the Chinese as the bad guys isn't going to go over well in that market. Although I read a blog post by somebody who pointed out that if MGM had just added a new ending in which the Chinese ''won'' (and maybe some scenes that made the PLA look less &amp;quot;bad&amp;quot;), that would have been a huge hit in China.&lt;br /&gt;
::I doubt Red Dawn was ever planned to be released in China, since their government has a strict quota on the amount of Hollywood movies that get released each year. MGM and Sony (the distributor) were probably more concerned that the Chinese government would respond to their portrayal in Red Dawn by not allowing one of their major money makers like Bond 23 to be released there. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 22:11, 26 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Chances are that this film and Bond 23 will never see the light of day until MGM fixes their financial issues (If they haven't already). --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 22:51, 28 July 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:''What is the main infantry weapon of the North Korean army, is it an AK-74 copy? If so, then this change actually makes the weapons used make slightly more sense, albeit accidentally.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The North Korean defense industry manufactures AK-47 (Type 58), AKM (Type 68), and AK-74 (Type 88) clones. All of them are in the KPA inventory and remain in use with different units. Of course, the fact that the North Koreans still have such outdated weapons in inventory should demonstrate how unlikely they are to be able to invade the U.S., but I guess that's another story. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:10, 26 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Far as I can tell, just invading the US, to say nothing of conducting an occupation, would be practically impossible. Aside from their nuclear weapons, the majority of the military hardware fielded by the DPRK is obsolete and defunct Cold War-era hardware that would be completely outclassed by that used by the US. Furthermore, you're talking about occupying country several times their own size on the other side of the world's largest ocean, which would be a significant logistical hinderance. In short, North Korea attempting an invasion and occupation in the US would be a fool's errand at best, and utter suicide at worst. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:56, 27 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yep, exactly, I agree 100%. The DPRK invading the U.S. would be impossible. Actually, due to the United States' geography and power projection abilities (mostly due to its Navy), ''nobody'' (including China and Russia) can invade us. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:13, 27 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Unless the North Koreans were to try and make their way though Alaska and Canada like how the Soviet Union did in the original Red Dawn. But even then, that's a bit of a stretch since Alaska is home to many U.S. Air Force and Air National Guard bases, other assorted military bases for the Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard (I'm assuming), and nearly everybody in the state owns a gun for either sporting purposes, self-defense, collecting purposes, or hunting. So I guess that probably couldn't be a good idea... Unless North Korea is supported by other nations allied to them like how the Soviet Union had several other allies helping them in the original Red Dawn... Or like how in the videogame [[Homefront]] where they had the backing of Japan and the Southeast Asian community... I don't know, I'm over-thinking this subject way too much... Anyone else want to weigh in on this topic? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 22:51, 28 July 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Initially I was excited about this movie, but now I think they need to just put the nail in the coffin now and cancel it. I did run upon a magazine website that got an advance screening of the original version with China as the enemy, which I figure some of you might be interested in reading (it does have spoilers, so beware). [http://www.libertasfilmmagazine.com/exclusive-libertas-sees-the-uncensored-version-of-mgms-new-red-dawn/] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:20, 27 October 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Invaders ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They were Russian, then it was Chinese, then it was Chinese and Russian, now it's North Korean? WTF? Was that done because of Homefront? No wonder this movie is taking so long to come out. They keep changing the script. It also has Josh Peck, that pretty much killed my chances of wanting to see it.--Gunner5&lt;br /&gt;
:The reason it has been delayed is not because of the changes but because of MGM's financial situation. The invaders are an Asian coalition, but the changes were to make North Korea the leaders of it rather than China, and to push them into the background. The changes were done after shooting was finished, and all that was required was the rerecording of an intro sequence, a bit of editing and CG-ing the emblems on vehicle from Chines to North Korean. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:57, 7 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Even then, the original plot of China invading to &amp;quot;liberate&amp;quot; us from our &amp;quot;corrupt&amp;quot; leaders and economic crisis, was far more interesting and identifiable for me. I doubt it would have been as good as the original, but it sounded like a good movie. Now I can't even take it seriously anymore. At least China is a legit military power with a blue water navy, unlike North Korea. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:50, 29 October 2012 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Well...Hopefully..Finally...Maybe ==&lt;br /&gt;
Saw this, hope it means it will finally hit the theaters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/1070010/red_dawn_remake_finally_set_for_release.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 18:21, 27 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well it's about time! --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 01:51, 29 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/1143265/red_dawn_remake_finally_has_release_date.html--[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 19:54, 29 November 2011 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Good weapon skills ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not going to spoil the movie too much, but I will say that the actors seem to know how to handle their weapons.  I admit I'm not the greatest judge of such things, but I didn't see any fingers on triggers when not firing, the proper stances were used (as seen in one of the trailers, even the SAW is aimed like a rifle, not hip-fired), there were few instances of shooting from the hip (and when they did happen, it was shown to be inaccurate as it should be), not too much flinching, and they even demonstrate very good CQB skills in some scenes.  I'm not sure what kind of training they were put through, but both the instructors and the actors themselves deserve props for a job well done.&lt;br /&gt;
  [[User:BigD|BigD]] 11/27/2012 13:23&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:No offense, but nearly all of the things you've said are pretty common in movies and TV shows nowadays. In the last 10-15 years, it's become very common for actors playing roles that involve lots of gun handling to seek out instruction, either from firearms instructors at ranges or from technical advisers hired by the producers. Watch almost any behind-the-scenes footage and you'll often see the actors training with firearms, sometimes even live-fire. And this practice isn't just limited to movies directed by Michael Mann; it's even common in over-the-top fantasy films like ''[[Sucker Punch]]'', as you can see on our page for that movie. So I'm really not sure it matters all that much that ''[[Red Dawn (2012)|Red Dawn]]'' features (semi) realistic gun handling, given that it is, by all accounts, a pretty bad movie. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 16:58, 27 November 2012 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There was nothing really remarkable about the gun handling in this movie, other than how Jed is supposed to be a Marine yet he sprays his AK constantly like any straight up action hero. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 19:08, 27 November 2012 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Tec 9 is trash accuracy==&lt;br /&gt;
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There's a scene where Jed was trying out a Tec 9 like weapon in bursts and had to adjust how far he was to the target to get good effect and ended up saying they need better guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:27, 27 November 2012 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I remember in the first movie where he says not to shoot twice so that they cant figure out where they are but in this one has no problem with unloading into a tree. [[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] ([[User talk:Mpe2010|talk]])&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Kenny99&amp;diff=463551</id>
		<title>User talk:Kenny99</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Kenny99&amp;diff=463551"/>
		<updated>2011-09-28T22:23:16Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;==Erm...==&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not sure how you think uploading a picture of a ''Korean'' tank is going to prove anything about what American tanks in Crysis are armed with. I put two images side by side in the article. It is exactly, precisely the same weapon model. There's no M60D anywhere, just a Type 88 with spade grips. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 04:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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*Yes, but this isn't the internet movie firearm noise database, we're going by what the gun looks like. Both guns are identical, so writing them up as if they're not doesn't make sense. And personally I haven't noticed any difference in firing sounds either, so I find that claim a little odd.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;The ASV Anti-Vehicle is definately a 20mm [the game actually says so when you take control of the Korean armoured vehicle armed with one during &amp;quot;Shore Leave&amp;quot;] so it's not an M2; it certainly has some design elements copied from the M2, but there's elements of the H&amp;amp;K GMG in there [especially the barrel] and the ammo belt is ''huge'', much too large for a 50 cal. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 04:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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**The majority of Crysis' weapons are based closely on real-life weapons, many being combinations of parts from several; that goes for the majority of the vehicles, too [for example, the US tank is a combination of the M1A1 Abrams, British Challenger I and Israeli Merkava 3: I don't know why they went for old versions of the three tanks, mind]. Avoiding precisely replicating real weapons means you don't have to pay fees to anyone for the image of that weapon to appear in your game; it seems 'Frankenguns' like the ones in Crysis aren't enough to get copyright claims filed. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 04:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I think the article on Crysis is pretty much finished. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It doesn't need any more images, particularly low-quality, non-gameplay images. I think it's fine as it is and we should focus on getting something like Far Cry 2 up to the same standard. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 18:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== User page ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Nothing to do with you, don't worry, it's just a joke. Both of those users are me [Tim is my gaming PC, since I forgot the password to this one]. Also, could you put comments on my discussion page rather than my user page? Thanks. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 12:06, 30 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Hand Held Minigun==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Kenny, Not sure what you mean on the post. I stated the info on the forum and it was posted on the page. The hand hold mount and backpack are a completely new design used for the first time on [[G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra]] then used again on [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]. I designed the mount and built it for the show check out my work on the [[SK 1878 shotgun]] page. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]] 09:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE: MG42==&lt;br /&gt;
I re-checked on a high quality bootleg of the movie and you only see the Germans use an MG34, the same one Creed picks up and mows down the gunners with. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
==RE: DSR-1==&lt;br /&gt;
Damn. Thanks for the info-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 22:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==hey==&lt;br /&gt;
You have no right for saying that wise shit. Nobody cares about that,you bastard. [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Lisle202==&lt;br /&gt;
Hrm, I failed to notice his comment left to you. Because I'm so generous, he gets one more chance. If he doesn't do anything bad in the future, he can go about what he wants. If he tries that smarmy shit with me or any other admins., he's banned for good, no second chances. Same for if he uploads bootlegs. BTW, he seems to have a problem writing with proper grammer (lack of spacing in words, spelling &amp;quot;muzzle&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;mussle&amp;quot;, etc.) He even showed this poor grammar in the message he sent to you: ''Nobody cares about that,you bastard.'' Thanks for informing me of this, I've been busy working on Watchmen (which his works interupted) so I haven't been able to patrol the site in full like I usually can. Let me know if he does anything else in the future. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, I wanted to point one thing out. In the bootlegs he uploaded, the gun he listed as a Kar98k was in fact the MG34 (you could even see the bipod and such), so if that's what you spotted in the original film, I'm not sure the Kar98k was ever present at all. I think it is kind of ironic, I had put some bootlegs for this movie on the forum (since I know bootlegs don't go here) to confirm and deny certain things, and I did a much better job finding good shots. :) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Well, it'd be another article. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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And I don't think it's even been announced yet, so we'll wait and see. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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*Warhead is basically just an add-on / side story, most of the weapons are the same and it isn't worth a whole article. I'd imagine a full-blown sequel would have a lot more new guns in it, so would get a new article. Anyway, calm down, it's probably not going to sneak up on us in the next five minutes. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:55, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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**Type &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; [without the nowiki tags, obviously] after your comment and it automatically signs and date-stamps your reply. Anyway, I'm off to bed now, so catch you later. Also, Tim is my other other account, I'm bad at remembering passwords so just use this one. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ja==&lt;br /&gt;
Du zerstört meine Arbeit, Kenny99! Und die Waffe in Lois und Clark ist eine Glock 18! - [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]] 16:07, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*You should stop saying that it's an RPK on [[Journey from the Fall]]!! It's not an RPK-grrr!!And I don't understand German. [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 16:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*Ich verstehe nicht, Englisch! - [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]] 16:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
==German==&lt;br /&gt;
He's indeed speaking German. In his first comment he said &amp;quot;What the? That does not look like an M1911A1.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To translate his newest comment to you:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Yes&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You are destroying my work, Kenny99! And the weapon in Lois and Clark is a Glock 18!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After you reply, he said:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I do not understand English.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So basically, he doesn't understand a word we are saying, so in order to talk to him, I'll need to brush up on my German grammar. I can translate but writing in the proper way (since it requires proper cases and grammar) will be more difficult. He shouldn't be on an English speaking sight if he can't speak English. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
:He CAN speak english. He is just messing with us.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, anyway I beat you to it and if he can speak German he has a long message to read. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re:==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes,but I just started in the Beginner's course of German. I understand that this lisle or whatever is messing around on a non German site. - [[User:Crysis|Crysis]] 22:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re: MI2 Help==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey Kenny, The weapon fired from the helicopter is a M4 carbine with a C-More sight that's mounted above the handguard and has a M16/AR15 BRASS CATCHER made by EL Manufacturing. Look at the photo carefully now that you know and you can see features like a carrying handle and the hump in the upper receiver for the cam pin to rotate. Hope this helps you out. -[[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]] 06:46, 24 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==X-Men Origins==&lt;br /&gt;
The videos on IMDB have a little play button in the center that doesn't go away, so that would be obvious in each image. Anyway, XOW will likely be out on DVD in the not too distant future, and I'll bne sure to buy it opening day and put much better quality images on the page than those from HD trailers, so just wait a little. -  [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Spider Man==&lt;br /&gt;
I own all of the Spider Mans on DVD, so if you don't do two, I'll take care of it later. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Lisle202==&lt;br /&gt;
Ha ha, Sie sind lustig. Englisch Diese Worte sind schwer zu sagen. Talk to you yesterday. - [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]] 16:26, 27 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RPK or RPD? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I think it may be an RPK since in the first shot the gun doesn't have that Square shaped hand guard that the RPD has. But in the second shot we see that it has an hooded front sight. I don't think the RPK has an hooded front sight. The RPD does however has one. It could be both. The guns coulda been switched. Sorry, i can't help.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Because i love this website ==&lt;br /&gt;
And i love editing wikis. I love wikipedia in general. Also, what Vietnam Scene are you talking about? The one in Wolverine?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RE: Flintlock Pistols and Rifles ==&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for adding in the info on the pages!. It must be noted that these weapons may be hard to identify as they didnt have the same standards those days as many were made by various makers. The rifle image you uploaded is actually a percussion cap rifle of similar appearence that was made during the very early 19th century.&lt;br /&gt;
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PS: I lost connection with the internet, sorry for leaving the page blank.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 16:23PM, 31/07/2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Announcement:1==&lt;br /&gt;
I posted a picture of a sporterized Mauser Gewehr 1898 by accident so I'm not sure if it will be approved or not. Also it's was meant for Public Enemies,not for the entier pages. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I reverted it back, if you want upload the sporter version, put it under a different file name thanks.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Fixed it, and uploaded your image seperately. Anyway, what's the difference between the the regular Mauser Gewehr 1898 and the sporterized version?.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Lois &amp;amp; Clark==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've watched a handful of episodes of ''[[Lois &amp;amp; Clark: The New Adventures of Superman|Lois and Clark]]'' on YouTube, and I've noticed you really made quite a few mistakes regarding the guns which appear in the show, which makes me suspicious of some of the other guns you IDed.  Among those I've noticed so far:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* (1.) There is no Beretta 92F in the Pilot, and you missed out on the only two guns which DID appear in that episode - a S&amp;amp;W 3913 &amp;quot;Ladysmith&amp;quot; and an Uzi.&lt;br /&gt;
* (2.) Lex's pistol in &amp;quot;Requiem for a Superhero&amp;quot; is not a gold Desert Eagle. It's some type of revolver (I can't tell what kind), and it's unlikely that the Mark XIX variant of the Desert Eagle appears in any episodes of the show because this version was not introduced until 1995.&lt;br /&gt;
* (3.) None of the robbers in &amp;quot;Fly Hard&amp;quot; use MP5 variants. They use Glock 17s, MAC-10s, Ruger Mini-14s with Muzzelite bullpup stocks, and a pistol-grip shotgun that appears to be a Mossberg 500 Persuader.  Off the top of my head, I can recall one episode of the show where an MP5 was used in a drive-by shooting, but I can't remember which one (I only remember that it involved the annoying and trigger-happy super woman).&lt;br /&gt;
* (4.) I have no idea if the Colt Model 733 is in &amp;quot;Barbarians at the Planet&amp;quot;, but I have seen XM177s in a couple other episodes, so it's most likely that those are what you saw. The Model 733 isn't the only CAR-15 variant that existed before the M4.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I realize you may be more into guns from 1914-1975, so what I would recommend is that you post more screencaps if you have them and maybe we can help out more with the guns. There's nothing wrong with being unsure about certain guns, but it's best if you just admit this on the page instead of stating something that's incorrect. That way, other people who have seen the show can make a positive ID later. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Re: Announcement 1 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for the great info Kenny, I will probably find it useful someday. By the way, sorry if I was a little harsh when I reverted the image last night, I didn't know it was an accidental overwrite until afterwards.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 01:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== KENNY!!! ==&lt;br /&gt;
Stop edting that Thing Thing 2 article and tag it so the Admins can delete it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:37, 11 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Okay then. I'm not angry. I'm annoyed. Besides, this week we alredy had a Thing Thing 1 page. It got deleted.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:46, 11 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Colt 1895 Machine gun ==&lt;br /&gt;
I already built a page for that machine gun a few months ago. Here it is [[Colt 1895 Automatic Machine Gun]] --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Colt ==&lt;br /&gt;
It wasn't used by the US armed forces until the 1980s i think. So no.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 14 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==re: Lois and Clark==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The YouTube video is too blurry to be sure, but I doubt it's a 1st Generation Glock 17. The Glock didn't start to appear in movies until around 1990, and by then, the 2nd Generation models had been available for several years. Personally, I would like to get rid of the Gen 1 Glock image from the Glock 17 page, because unless anyone has proof otherwise, it's safe to assume most Glocks in movies/TV shows are 2nd Generation models. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:He's probably right about the S&amp;amp;W 3913. But personally, I don't think that a gun deserves a different entry just because of its slide markings (otherwise, we'd have to give the Beretta 92F and M9 different entries, which is something that I have already opposed and told IMFDB members ''not'' to do). Also, here are some other things I've noticed:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(1.) The MP5A3s are not the &amp;quot;Navy&amp;quot; version; they seem to have the SEF lower receivers. Might want to replace the A3 Navy picture with one of the other A3 pictures.&lt;br /&gt;
:(2.) The Desert Eagle used by Ari is probably not a Mark XIX, because the Mark XIX wasn't around when that episode aired. It's more likely the older Mark I or Mark VII, one of those two.&lt;br /&gt;
:(3.) We have a picture of a Mini-14 with a Muzzelite stock, so ditch the picture of the regular Mini-14 and replace it.&lt;br /&gt;
:(4.) One other request...do you mind adding another picture of Lex's Beretta 92FS Inox? The picture of him putting it in the case is a little blurry; you should add a picture of him checking the chamber (which occurs only a few seconds earlier).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:That's all I see for now. Anything else I can help with? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Here is what I had in mind:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::[[Image:LC1x20-Inox-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::He briefly checks the chamber, lets the slide release, then puts it in the case. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Scardino's revolver==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:revolverlc.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Scardino aims his revolver at Lois and Clark for disguising themselves as workers, but lets them go.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:revolverlc2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Lois uses Scardino's revolver to stop McCarthy from killing Scardino.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm pretty sure that this is a [[Ruger GP100|Ruger GP101]]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:32, 30 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:All of them seem to have the forward assist, so they're M16A1s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE Steamboy==&lt;br /&gt;
Just a preference, sort of like how some people don't like rap music.&lt;br /&gt;
I liked Spirited Away, but thats about it. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:28, 4 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Re: pistol==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Looks to me like a [[SIG-Sauer P230]]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Re:==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*(1.) I'm not sure what the golden pistol is.  It's not seen clearly enough to tell much.  But it's definitely way too small to be a Desert Eagle, as the page used to say.&lt;br /&gt;
*(2.) Yes, you are correct, there does appear to be an MP5K in the background of that picture.&lt;br /&gt;
*(3.) Crysis is full of shit, and I explained why on the page.&lt;br /&gt;
*(4.) The weapon is indeed a sawed-off double-barrel shotgun, but I'm not sure what kind.  Double-barrel shotguns are very hard to tell apart.  Most of us just link to the [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]] page and post the gun we ''think'' it might be, but it's often very hard for us to tell, so we rarely bother.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:19, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks so much!  Great to see that this exists.  The YouTube videos were, unfortunately, kind of limited, but it's great to see that it's available elsewhere. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:28, 14 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Making Franken gun pics==&lt;br /&gt;
It's frowned upon, especially by me. i.e. taking my original pics and photoshopping them into other configurations.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:33, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Brothers Bloom==&lt;br /&gt;
I would say its possibly a FEG clone of a hi-power, but I'm probably wrong -[[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RERE==&lt;br /&gt;
Here, you couldn't find it because it was listed under &amp;quot;Browning BDA&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Browning_BDA --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RE Time Crisis==&lt;br /&gt;
Nope, I've never played it -but looking at the symbol for the &amp;quot;MSG0-90&amp;quot; in the game it looks more like an AR-15 with an MSG-90 fore end. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:12, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Glock 17L in &amp;quot;Tempus Fugitive&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It isn't converted to a machine pistol.  The gun store owner says it's a ''semi''-automatic, which means it's '''not''' a machine pistol.  He also calls the bullets &amp;quot;puppies&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;poopies&amp;quot;.  I corrected the entry and also added another picture. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:16, 14 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I will try, but unfortunately, I'm in graduate school now, and those bastards make absolutely sure we have too much work to have much fun.  Which means, sadly, less time to watch old TV shows on YouTube.  Also, I have another project - ''[[Level 9]]'' - in the works right now which is consuming most of the time I do spend working on IMFDB.  But I will try to help whenever possible. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==George of the Jungle==&lt;br /&gt;
You can do whatever you want, the movie has guns and is thus allowed on IMFDb. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
::I deleted it because it was a low effort page that wasn't considered site worthy in its current condition. With screencaps, gun images, links, and a poster the page is considered complete so is allowed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Is it neccessary to screencap some of Wolverine? I can put out higher definition images so shouldn't I just do it? I already have everything saved. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Nam M1903s ==&lt;br /&gt;
Makes sense. Thanks for the information.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re: Whew==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The sniper rifle looks to be a Ruger Model 77, but I'm not sure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for the guns in the water fountain, the gun next to the AR-15 HBAR is an Uzi (you already documented its appearance in the same episode).  The nickel-plated shotgun appears to be a Winchester of some type, but I'm not sure about that one, either. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Sci-fi guns are only allowed on IMFDB if there is proof that they are based on existing guns (for instance, the M41 pulse rifle from ''[[Aliens]]'' was based on an M1A1 Thompson submachine gun, so that is a sci-fi gun which we do allow).  I will have to watch &amp;quot;Double Jeopardy&amp;quot; again to see if that gun was based on a real weapon, but I don't think it was.  I may be wrong because it's been a long time since I've seen that episode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, I have some more guns I've spotted after watching a few of the other episodes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(1.) None of the Nazis in &amp;quot;Super Mann&amp;quot; use Walther PPKs; the pistols they all carry are P38Ks.  The exception is the head Nazi (can't remember his name) who shoots Hank West - he uses a Heckler &amp;amp; Koch USP.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(2.) There are a LOT of guns in &amp;quot;Tempus, Anyone?&amp;quot;  Besides the Desert Eagle Mark VII that Tempus himself carries (I got pictures for that one already), I spotted several M16A1s, a Galil AR, a Remington 870, a Ruger Mini-14, more Glocks and Beretta 92Fs, and a nickel Walther PPK that Tempus himself carries in the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(3.) In the episode &amp;quot;Target: Jimmy Olsen&amp;quot;, the first assassin (Malloy, or whatever his name was) carried a CAR-15 variant, which I think was a Colt Model 653.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(4.) In &amp;quot;Super Mann&amp;quot;, the supermodel Nazi chick used another Chinese Type 69 RPG, though the warhead on it was clearly fake.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'll watch some more later and see what I find. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Sounds good!  There's a lot more weapons in that season, I am sure. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:49, 17 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::That's not a Gold Cup National Match; it doesn't have the target sights.  It's a regular Colt MK IV Series 70, I think.  Judging by the size of the bore, it's also the 9mm model. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:59, 17 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RE Australia (2008)==&lt;br /&gt;
You may be right, however I am not confident enough in it to put it in myself. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RE:==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No, the guy in the picture you posted is holding a Ruger Mini-14 rifle.  I'll have to watch the episode again, but I remember the Galil was seen earlier in the episode when H.G. Wells was showing Lois around the city.  A guy took the Galil out of the trunk of his car. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:28, 9 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re:Ninja Assassin==&lt;br /&gt;
i did thanks a lot its great    [[User:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==User 67.183.66.44==&lt;br /&gt;
Uh, he hasn't been back since he got a temporary ban back in Feb.  So you're talking to thin air.  Sorry. :)  He was notorious for making bad changes to pages. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:20, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==Terence Stamp==&lt;br /&gt;
Wouldn't it be better to have a pic of himself in action on his page than someone else?--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:33, 27 May 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WantedBeretta92S-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:LM-SW586-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
:A pic of him from [[Wanted]] wouldn't be bad, but there isn't a good shot of him with his gun in that film. Since you're the author of his page I figure I would make the suggestion rather than just changing it myself.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RE:Carbines, Repeating Rifles==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Good questions.  Here's my take:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* (1.) Yes, carbines and lever-action repeating rifles should go under &amp;quot;rifles.&amp;quot;  And to answer (3.), yes, carbines are a type of rifle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* (2.) As for the [[Ruger Mini-14]], that is a gray area.  If you ask Ruger, they will vehemently deny that the Mini-14 is an &amp;quot;assault rifle&amp;quot;. They sucked up to the Brady Bunch in order to prevent the Mini-14 from being banned as an &amp;quot;assault rifle&amp;quot; during the 1990s when the Assault Weapon Ban was being debated in Congress.  So officially, the Mini-14 has never been classified as an &amp;quot;assault rifle&amp;quot; by law (and Ruger removed the flash hider and bayonet lug to keep it that way).  But most gun owners in America think it's absurd that the Mini-14 is not an assault rifle, but an AR-15 is, since for all practical purposes, both guns do almost the same things.  My personal take on it is that because the Mini-14 isn't a &amp;quot;military-style&amp;quot; weapon, it shouldn't be called an assault rifle, but that's a question of aesthetics.  So long story short, I would probably just put it under &amp;quot;Rifles&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;Assault Rifles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hope that helps you.  Also, the gun that you identified as a SIG-Sauer P226 is actually a S&amp;amp;W auto of some sort.  I think it's a [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 5906]], or maybe a 659 (hard to tell). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RE: Real-time strategy games==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, they're allowed, if they have guns that are recognizable as real guns.  But I'd have to see to be sure.  I actually did some work on the page for ''[[Command &amp;amp; Conquer: Red Alert 2]]'' myself, though that game's a bit different because we were IDing the guns seen in the FMV cutscenes, not the game itself. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:42, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Night at the Museum==&lt;br /&gt;
Great work on the page!!!. But &amp;quot;Pshaw!&amp;quot; why did you not bother to identify the Pattern 1777 French Charleville Muskets used by the Napoleonic Soldiers?  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:29, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Reply ==&lt;br /&gt;
...I Didn't&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==To Kenny==&lt;br /&gt;
Moviemaster1993, being the douchebag that he is, was replying to your question as to why he was impersonating an 'official' Transformers site, which he obviously was.  He also just replied to me &amp;quot;Hahahaha you hate me don't you?&amp;quot; even though he does not understand the gravity of the situation.  Illegal postings of pirate images (especially from a major studio) is very dangerous as you well know and this guy just doesn't seem to get it.  He is banned permanently.  He is exposing our entire site to being shut down on legal grounds, and he's an abrasive member to boot.  If you think I am overreacting, let me know :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:19, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Recommend you check Star Wars talk page==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I notce you have been doing a lot of work on the ''[[Star Wars]]'' page. I recommend you check the latest addition to the talk page. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 16:42, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
== Vampires Suck ==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, you're probably right about how it's not a good idea to make a one-gun page.  I support the deletion of it. --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] 23:16, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==delete images and pages==&lt;br /&gt;
I'll go through all of them when I get more time later on today.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:51, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M3 Carbine pic==&lt;br /&gt;
Yep, I liked Kin93's big pic of the gun better than the one I had.  The one I had was not my pic but a fixed version of the previous crappy pic.  The previous version was tilted at a weird angle.  All I did was straighten it and re-upload the crap picture.  I welcomed a new version of that gun.  But then I saw that you realized that he was not overwriting an original MPM picture, which is usually a good photo! LOL  :)   BTW, thanks.  You're looking out for my pics which is appreciated none the less.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:27, 30 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Again, I appreciated MORE the fact that you were being protective of the original MPM pics, which is a good thing! LOL.  Of course we both agree that replacing a crappy jacked pic is preferred.  No one I know has that M3 setup any more anyway.  Those things went the way of the dinosaur back in the early 1980s.  :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:36, 31 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Saving Private Ryan ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've replaced the images with new desaturated versions.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:11, 7 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==My screencaps?==&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure what you mean.  Which ones?  Ben41 has access to more Blueray DVDs than I do, so I'm alittle confused.  Usually his shots are better. The only time I do better is when there is a HIGH DEF trailer.  I download the 1080i Version and capture that at maximum scan on a Mac Pro Tower with a HUGE cinema flatscreen display and then crop and adjust in Photoshop. :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:02, 29 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==uploading images==&lt;br /&gt;
When you upload a file, you can add &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[Category:Screenshot]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; in the summary section, rather than edit it every time. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 00:40, 19 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hi. About screencappin'... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi!&lt;br /&gt;
I was just wondering, how do you take you're screenshots? Do you take screencaps from DVD's or BLU-Ray's? What kind of program do you use? --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 19:58, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, I myself use VLC player for both DVD &amp;amp; BLU-Ray... and Gimp 2 for editing, if necessary. But anyways, the reason I asked is your screencaps. You said you screencap mostly from DVD's. How come the screencaps are so big then? Do you blow them up with a picture tool? Most DVD's only give out small (about 700 pixels or 800 pixels, give or take), but your screencaps are (randomly) anywhere from 1,017 pixels to 1873 pixels. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but you shouldn't do that. I mean of course, you should take screencaps, as we need them, screencaps make a page look good and professional. ''However''... you shouldn't drag the sides of the WMP to make the images bigger. You're only stretching them, not actually improving the quality of the images. I mean when you blow them up, they look pixelated, and unclear. You're actually making the worse. If you wanna get better (and bigger) images, I suggest you get BLU-Rays and screencap them, as they are already more sharp and of better quality. But if not, DVD's are fine, most people screencap off of them. But yeah, treat DVD's as DVD's and HD as HD. Even though you're using WMP, I suggest you try VLC again, after downloading and installing some ''codecs'' (Try K-Lite codec pack). You might not have the proper codecs for VLC to run your DVD's. Again, I don't wanna sound rude or aggressive, and I'm sorry if I did. Cheers, and thanks mate. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:42, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== No problem ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No problem, man. And again, sorry if I sounded aggressive. I'm usually pretty straight-forward though ;) --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Re: Crysis 2 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm stuck behind a proxy, so online gaming is a no-go. I'll visit a relative with a decent internet connection though, albeit for only 2 days. No idea if I try it out then. Oh, and the Jackal screenshot IS from the Nanosuit Progression Trailer. Go through it frame by frame and you'll see it. Whoever edited the thing must have accidentaly left it in. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 06:57, 4 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Deleted Images ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, there is a bug in the software that doesn't allow anyone to delete images right now.  For some reason, when you're on an image page, the site doesn't recognize that you're logged in.   I've informed Bunni about it.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:35, 11 March 2011 (MSK)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Re: Help identifying vehicles==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The vehicles in the screenshots you showed me are as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Apache?-P4F.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mi-28 Havoc]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:tank-P4f.jpg|thumb|none|600px|LAV-25 APC (note the twin TOW launchers on either side of the turret are incorrect for the real LAV-25)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:tank2-P4f.jpg|thumb|none|600px|BTR-90 APC (again, this vehicle does not have missile armament in real life)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:jet-P4f.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two F-35 Lightning II's with a MiG-29 Fulcrum behind them]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hope this helps. On the subject of ''BF: Play4Free'', is the game officially released yet, or is it still in beta stage? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:28, 24 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for the improvements Kenny, I was about to do that myself. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:51, 6 April 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RE Militia ==&lt;br /&gt;
The Screencaps are from Verizon Fios TV Online, not a DVD. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:56, 27 June 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tremors BluRay ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for asking ahead of time.  When I use VLC, I add a little bit more sharpness to the shots.   I would request before you start overwriting all of them, that you would do one or two because I would like to compare.   I think it's better to actually overwrite an existing pic instead of uploading completely new ones because you can see what the older pics look like compare to the new ones.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:53, 1 July 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The screenshot looks great.  Go ahead.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:11, 1 July 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Aliens blu-ray ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please check the dimensions on the screenshots.  The ones that are at 853x480 are from the DVD and can be replaced.   There are a few from the Blu-ray and do not need to be replaced.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 13:44, 11 August 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Image uploading ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It takes a few minutes to a few hours for the cache to update the thumbnails. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 20:12, 4 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== JD0556 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not welcoming him at all, I'm just letting know him isn't accomplishing anything. First sign of trouble, he's gone. Trust me, I'm not on his side for anything, I don't like him anymore then you do, I'm just toying with him, and keeping him busy.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:55, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, sorry it seemed that way. Trust me, I would never welcome any vandal to this site. I might have talked some sense into him though, but who knows, I don't trust him. He is going to be monitored though, so again sorry for any confusion.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:07, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So what are you saying? I'm not trying to be friends with him or anything, I just didn't want to block him straight away until he did something, I'm just trying to talk some sense into him. I'm just really tired of seeing all that vandalism every other day, and I was the one who had to delete all of it last time. --[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, I can't believe how calm he actually was, I was expecting a long line of rants. Well, he may actually leave us alone this time, I haven't had any messages from him in the past half hour. I'll let the other admins know so he is kept underwatch. Thanks for your concern.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:46, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ones that are still on this site? I'm not so sure about them. I know he uploaded them onto his Movie Weapon Wiki, but I'm not worried about that. If you want to know my opinion, I would rather just delete them, I really don't like the idea of them remaining on the site if they are a copyright violation. Should I discuss this on the Transformers 3 talk page, or just get rid of them?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:00, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, I guess we should discuss it first. I'm sure MPM2008 will respond to you eventually, but he's not the quickest one to reply since he is so busy. I'll ask them what they think should happen to them. What about the ones uploaded by Commando552? Are they from Imdb or some other known source?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:26, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, thanks. Just wanted to make sure. Likewise.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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YEah, I saw Ben41's comments, and hopefully he'll leave us alone now. I have also read MoviePropMasters reply, and I would say he knows the best thing to do in this matter. Hopefully once the dvd comes out, we'll be in the clear.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 14:00, 10 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Transformers BTS==&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry for the delay.  Yes, we still have the images on our server, but since the film was released in theaters, I don't believe that changes the legal status of the pics.  From what I gather, they were telephoto paparazzi photos of actors on the set.  Not officially released but taken by a fan.  Now this happens all the time and publications like the National Enquirer print stuff like that, all the time as well.  I hope to get all the images we need from the officially released DVD/BluRay since that is an actual release.  We may allow some of the pics, but I would be a lot calmer about the entire scenario when the film is available on DVD/Bluray.  The mods may discuss this, but I tend to be very cautious when it comes to any activity that may bring IMFDB under the scrutiny of Major Motion Picture Studio lawyers.  Trans 3 is such a high profile film and IMFDB is growing in stature within the industry itself.  I would hate to have us get tainted in any way by any 'take down order' by the studio lawyers.  But then I'm super cautious when dealing with certain entities in the business. But I'm not 100% against the images either.  Perhaps the nature of the source of the images, someone whom we believe to be 'not entirely stable' also taints the images.  '''You stated that the facebook account was suddenly deleted.  Would this indicate some LEGAL action by the studio?'''  I fear so.   So if you're asking my opinion, I would rather wait than risk doing anything to piss off the studios.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:53, 9 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Forum ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you for your reply. Hopefully over time I will be allowed to join the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cadet Programs ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is nice to see another young person interested in the military. I am in US Army JROTC and and the Civil Air Patrol cadet program. Is this your first year?--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:18, 25 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes we do all kind of community service from picking up parks along the river to cleaning the stands after the football games. We also have a color guard team, a drill team, a rifle team, and a raider team that specializes in the Army Physical Fitness Test.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 16:37, 27 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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We each get two uniforms, the ACU and the Class A green uniform. On Thursdays we wear the dress uniform and and we wear the ACU's for just about everything else but Drill Team and Color Guard. Our PT uniform is the grey t-shirt with ARMY across the front and black shorts. We alternate between running and doing calisthenics (pushups, situps, pullups, etc) on Fridays. Occasionally we do rifle PT where we use deactivated 1903 Springfields. I don't know if it is fair to say that MCJROTC is more disciplined because between the multiple Marine Corp, Army, and Air Force (no Navy around here) JROTC units that I have seen, the level of discipline is more up to how disciplined the instructors want it to be. I have seen numerous Marine Corp, Army, and Air Force units that had very low amounts of discipline and could use more. I am a Staff Sergeant and am a squad leader in my company. In class, We go over the Army's structure, leadership skills, and opportunities that are available in the military. What do you in MCJROTC? --[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 17:23, 28 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
== Talk Pages ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm new to IMFDB and I don't know how to find the talk page to rely to the help Kenny gave me. Is the Discussion page the talk page?&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Kenny99&amp;diff=463304</id>
		<title>User talk:Kenny99</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Kenny99&amp;diff=463304"/>
		<updated>2011-09-27T21:37:28Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Erm...==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not sure how you think uploading a picture of a ''Korean'' tank is going to prove anything about what American tanks in Crysis are armed with. I put two images side by side in the article. It is exactly, precisely the same weapon model. There's no M60D anywhere, just a Type 88 with spade grips. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 04:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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*Yes, but this isn't the internet movie firearm noise database, we're going by what the gun looks like. Both guns are identical, so writing them up as if they're not doesn't make sense. And personally I haven't noticed any difference in firing sounds either, so I find that claim a little odd.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;The ASV Anti-Vehicle is definately a 20mm [the game actually says so when you take control of the Korean armoured vehicle armed with one during &amp;quot;Shore Leave&amp;quot;] so it's not an M2; it certainly has some design elements copied from the M2, but there's elements of the H&amp;amp;K GMG in there [especially the barrel] and the ammo belt is ''huge'', much too large for a 50 cal. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 04:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
**The majority of Crysis' weapons are based closely on real-life weapons, many being combinations of parts from several; that goes for the majority of the vehicles, too [for example, the US tank is a combination of the M1A1 Abrams, British Challenger I and Israeli Merkava 3: I don't know why they went for old versions of the three tanks, mind]. Avoiding precisely replicating real weapons means you don't have to pay fees to anyone for the image of that weapon to appear in your game; it seems 'Frankenguns' like the ones in Crysis aren't enough to get copyright claims filed. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 04:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I think the article on Crysis is pretty much finished. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It doesn't need any more images, particularly low-quality, non-gameplay images. I think it's fine as it is and we should focus on getting something like Far Cry 2 up to the same standard. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 18:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== User page ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Nothing to do with you, don't worry, it's just a joke. Both of those users are me [Tim is my gaming PC, since I forgot the password to this one]. Also, could you put comments on my discussion page rather than my user page? Thanks. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 12:06, 30 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Hand Held Minigun==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Kenny, Not sure what you mean on the post. I stated the info on the forum and it was posted on the page. The hand hold mount and backpack are a completely new design used for the first time on [[G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra]] then used again on [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]. I designed the mount and built it for the show check out my work on the [[SK 1878 shotgun]] page. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]] 09:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE: MG42==&lt;br /&gt;
I re-checked on a high quality bootleg of the movie and you only see the Germans use an MG34, the same one Creed picks up and mows down the gunners with. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
==RE: DSR-1==&lt;br /&gt;
Damn. Thanks for the info-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 22:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==hey==&lt;br /&gt;
You have no right for saying that wise shit. Nobody cares about that,you bastard. [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Lisle202==&lt;br /&gt;
Hrm, I failed to notice his comment left to you. Because I'm so generous, he gets one more chance. If he doesn't do anything bad in the future, he can go about what he wants. If he tries that smarmy shit with me or any other admins., he's banned for good, no second chances. Same for if he uploads bootlegs. BTW, he seems to have a problem writing with proper grammer (lack of spacing in words, spelling &amp;quot;muzzle&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;mussle&amp;quot;, etc.) He even showed this poor grammar in the message he sent to you: ''Nobody cares about that,you bastard.'' Thanks for informing me of this, I've been busy working on Watchmen (which his works interupted) so I haven't been able to patrol the site in full like I usually can. Let me know if he does anything else in the future. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, I wanted to point one thing out. In the bootlegs he uploaded, the gun he listed as a Kar98k was in fact the MG34 (you could even see the bipod and such), so if that's what you spotted in the original film, I'm not sure the Kar98k was ever present at all. I think it is kind of ironic, I had put some bootlegs for this movie on the forum (since I know bootlegs don't go here) to confirm and deny certain things, and I did a much better job finding good shots. :) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Well, it'd be another article. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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And I don't think it's even been announced yet, so we'll wait and see. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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*Warhead is basically just an add-on / side story, most of the weapons are the same and it isn't worth a whole article. I'd imagine a full-blown sequel would have a lot more new guns in it, so would get a new article. Anyway, calm down, it's probably not going to sneak up on us in the next five minutes. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:55, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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**Type &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; [without the nowiki tags, obviously] after your comment and it automatically signs and date-stamps your reply. Anyway, I'm off to bed now, so catch you later. Also, Tim is my other other account, I'm bad at remembering passwords so just use this one. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ja==&lt;br /&gt;
Du zerstört meine Arbeit, Kenny99! Und die Waffe in Lois und Clark ist eine Glock 18! - [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]] 16:07, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*You should stop saying that it's an RPK on [[Journey from the Fall]]!! It's not an RPK-grrr!!And I don't understand German. [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 16:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*Ich verstehe nicht, Englisch! - [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]] 16:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
==German==&lt;br /&gt;
He's indeed speaking German. In his first comment he said &amp;quot;What the? That does not look like an M1911A1.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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To translate his newest comment to you:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Yes&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;You are destroying my work, Kenny99! And the weapon in Lois and Clark is a Glock 18!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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After you reply, he said:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I do not understand English.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So basically, he doesn't understand a word we are saying, so in order to talk to him, I'll need to brush up on my German grammar. I can translate but writing in the proper way (since it requires proper cases and grammar) will be more difficult. He shouldn't be on an English speaking sight if he can't speak English. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
:He CAN speak english. He is just messing with us.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, anyway I beat you to it and if he can speak German he has a long message to read. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re:==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes,but I just started in the Beginner's course of German. I understand that this lisle or whatever is messing around on a non German site. - [[User:Crysis|Crysis]] 22:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re: MI2 Help==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey Kenny, The weapon fired from the helicopter is a M4 carbine with a C-More sight that's mounted above the handguard and has a M16/AR15 BRASS CATCHER made by EL Manufacturing. Look at the photo carefully now that you know and you can see features like a carrying handle and the hump in the upper receiver for the cam pin to rotate. Hope this helps you out. -[[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]] 06:46, 24 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==X-Men Origins==&lt;br /&gt;
The videos on IMDB have a little play button in the center that doesn't go away, so that would be obvious in each image. Anyway, XOW will likely be out on DVD in the not too distant future, and I'll bne sure to buy it opening day and put much better quality images on the page than those from HD trailers, so just wait a little. -  [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Spider Man==&lt;br /&gt;
I own all of the Spider Mans on DVD, so if you don't do two, I'll take care of it later. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Lisle202==&lt;br /&gt;
Ha ha, Sie sind lustig. Englisch Diese Worte sind schwer zu sagen. Talk to you yesterday. - [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]] 16:26, 27 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RPK or RPD? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I think it may be an RPK since in the first shot the gun doesn't have that Square shaped hand guard that the RPD has. But in the second shot we see that it has an hooded front sight. I don't think the RPK has an hooded front sight. The RPD does however has one. It could be both. The guns coulda been switched. Sorry, i can't help.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Because i love this website ==&lt;br /&gt;
And i love editing wikis. I love wikipedia in general. Also, what Vietnam Scene are you talking about? The one in Wolverine?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RE: Flintlock Pistols and Rifles ==&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for adding in the info on the pages!. It must be noted that these weapons may be hard to identify as they didnt have the same standards those days as many were made by various makers. The rifle image you uploaded is actually a percussion cap rifle of similar appearence that was made during the very early 19th century.&lt;br /&gt;
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PS: I lost connection with the internet, sorry for leaving the page blank.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 16:23PM, 31/07/2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Announcement:1==&lt;br /&gt;
I posted a picture of a sporterized Mauser Gewehr 1898 by accident so I'm not sure if it will be approved or not. Also it's was meant for Public Enemies,not for the entier pages. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I reverted it back, if you want upload the sporter version, put it under a different file name thanks.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Fixed it, and uploaded your image seperately. Anyway, what's the difference between the the regular Mauser Gewehr 1898 and the sporterized version?.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Lois &amp;amp; Clark==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've watched a handful of episodes of ''[[Lois &amp;amp; Clark: The New Adventures of Superman|Lois and Clark]]'' on YouTube, and I've noticed you really made quite a few mistakes regarding the guns which appear in the show, which makes me suspicious of some of the other guns you IDed.  Among those I've noticed so far:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* (1.) There is no Beretta 92F in the Pilot, and you missed out on the only two guns which DID appear in that episode - a S&amp;amp;W 3913 &amp;quot;Ladysmith&amp;quot; and an Uzi.&lt;br /&gt;
* (2.) Lex's pistol in &amp;quot;Requiem for a Superhero&amp;quot; is not a gold Desert Eagle. It's some type of revolver (I can't tell what kind), and it's unlikely that the Mark XIX variant of the Desert Eagle appears in any episodes of the show because this version was not introduced until 1995.&lt;br /&gt;
* (3.) None of the robbers in &amp;quot;Fly Hard&amp;quot; use MP5 variants. They use Glock 17s, MAC-10s, Ruger Mini-14s with Muzzelite bullpup stocks, and a pistol-grip shotgun that appears to be a Mossberg 500 Persuader.  Off the top of my head, I can recall one episode of the show where an MP5 was used in a drive-by shooting, but I can't remember which one (I only remember that it involved the annoying and trigger-happy super woman).&lt;br /&gt;
* (4.) I have no idea if the Colt Model 733 is in &amp;quot;Barbarians at the Planet&amp;quot;, but I have seen XM177s in a couple other episodes, so it's most likely that those are what you saw. The Model 733 isn't the only CAR-15 variant that existed before the M4.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I realize you may be more into guns from 1914-1975, so what I would recommend is that you post more screencaps if you have them and maybe we can help out more with the guns. There's nothing wrong with being unsure about certain guns, but it's best if you just admit this on the page instead of stating something that's incorrect. That way, other people who have seen the show can make a positive ID later. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Re: Announcement 1 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for the great info Kenny, I will probably find it useful someday. By the way, sorry if I was a little harsh when I reverted the image last night, I didn't know it was an accidental overwrite until afterwards.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 01:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== KENNY!!! ==&lt;br /&gt;
Stop edting that Thing Thing 2 article and tag it so the Admins can delete it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:37, 11 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Okay then. I'm not angry. I'm annoyed. Besides, this week we alredy had a Thing Thing 1 page. It got deleted.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:46, 11 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Colt 1895 Machine gun ==&lt;br /&gt;
I already built a page for that machine gun a few months ago. Here it is [[Colt 1895 Automatic Machine Gun]] --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Colt ==&lt;br /&gt;
It wasn't used by the US armed forces until the 1980s i think. So no.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 14 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==re: Lois and Clark==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The YouTube video is too blurry to be sure, but I doubt it's a 1st Generation Glock 17. The Glock didn't start to appear in movies until around 1990, and by then, the 2nd Generation models had been available for several years. Personally, I would like to get rid of the Gen 1 Glock image from the Glock 17 page, because unless anyone has proof otherwise, it's safe to assume most Glocks in movies/TV shows are 2nd Generation models. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:He's probably right about the S&amp;amp;W 3913. But personally, I don't think that a gun deserves a different entry just because of its slide markings (otherwise, we'd have to give the Beretta 92F and M9 different entries, which is something that I have already opposed and told IMFDB members ''not'' to do). Also, here are some other things I've noticed:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(1.) The MP5A3s are not the &amp;quot;Navy&amp;quot; version; they seem to have the SEF lower receivers. Might want to replace the A3 Navy picture with one of the other A3 pictures.&lt;br /&gt;
:(2.) The Desert Eagle used by Ari is probably not a Mark XIX, because the Mark XIX wasn't around when that episode aired. It's more likely the older Mark I or Mark VII, one of those two.&lt;br /&gt;
:(3.) We have a picture of a Mini-14 with a Muzzelite stock, so ditch the picture of the regular Mini-14 and replace it.&lt;br /&gt;
:(4.) One other request...do you mind adding another picture of Lex's Beretta 92FS Inox? The picture of him putting it in the case is a little blurry; you should add a picture of him checking the chamber (which occurs only a few seconds earlier).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:That's all I see for now. Anything else I can help with? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Here is what I had in mind:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::[[Image:LC1x20-Inox-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::He briefly checks the chamber, lets the slide release, then puts it in the case. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Scardino's revolver==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:revolverlc.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Scardino aims his revolver at Lois and Clark for disguising themselves as workers, but lets them go.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:revolverlc2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Lois uses Scardino's revolver to stop McCarthy from killing Scardino.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm pretty sure that this is a [[Ruger GP100|Ruger GP101]]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:32, 30 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:All of them seem to have the forward assist, so they're M16A1s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE Steamboy==&lt;br /&gt;
Just a preference, sort of like how some people don't like rap music.&lt;br /&gt;
I liked Spirited Away, but thats about it. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:28, 4 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Re: pistol==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Looks to me like a [[SIG-Sauer P230]]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Re:==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*(1.) I'm not sure what the golden pistol is.  It's not seen clearly enough to tell much.  But it's definitely way too small to be a Desert Eagle, as the page used to say.&lt;br /&gt;
*(2.) Yes, you are correct, there does appear to be an MP5K in the background of that picture.&lt;br /&gt;
*(3.) Crysis is full of shit, and I explained why on the page.&lt;br /&gt;
*(4.) The weapon is indeed a sawed-off double-barrel shotgun, but I'm not sure what kind.  Double-barrel shotguns are very hard to tell apart.  Most of us just link to the [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]] page and post the gun we ''think'' it might be, but it's often very hard for us to tell, so we rarely bother.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:19, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks so much!  Great to see that this exists.  The YouTube videos were, unfortunately, kind of limited, but it's great to see that it's available elsewhere. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:28, 14 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Making Franken gun pics==&lt;br /&gt;
It's frowned upon, especially by me. i.e. taking my original pics and photoshopping them into other configurations.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:33, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
==The Brothers Bloom==&lt;br /&gt;
I would say its possibly a FEG clone of a hi-power, but I'm probably wrong -[[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==RERE==&lt;br /&gt;
Here, you couldn't find it because it was listed under &amp;quot;Browning BDA&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Browning_BDA --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RE Time Crisis==&lt;br /&gt;
Nope, I've never played it -but looking at the symbol for the &amp;quot;MSG0-90&amp;quot; in the game it looks more like an AR-15 with an MSG-90 fore end. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:12, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==The Glock 17L in &amp;quot;Tempus Fugitive&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn't converted to a machine pistol.  The gun store owner says it's a ''semi''-automatic, which means it's '''not''' a machine pistol.  He also calls the bullets &amp;quot;puppies&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;poopies&amp;quot;.  I corrected the entry and also added another picture. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:16, 14 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I will try, but unfortunately, I'm in graduate school now, and those bastards make absolutely sure we have too much work to have much fun.  Which means, sadly, less time to watch old TV shows on YouTube.  Also, I have another project - ''[[Level 9]]'' - in the works right now which is consuming most of the time I do spend working on IMFDB.  But I will try to help whenever possible. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==George of the Jungle==&lt;br /&gt;
You can do whatever you want, the movie has guns and is thus allowed on IMFDb. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
::I deleted it because it was a low effort page that wasn't considered site worthy in its current condition. With screencaps, gun images, links, and a poster the page is considered complete so is allowed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Is it neccessary to screencap some of Wolverine? I can put out higher definition images so shouldn't I just do it? I already have everything saved. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Nam M1903s ==&lt;br /&gt;
Makes sense. Thanks for the information.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re: Whew==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The sniper rifle looks to be a Ruger Model 77, but I'm not sure.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for the guns in the water fountain, the gun next to the AR-15 HBAR is an Uzi (you already documented its appearance in the same episode).  The nickel-plated shotgun appears to be a Winchester of some type, but I'm not sure about that one, either. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Sci-fi guns are only allowed on IMFDB if there is proof that they are based on existing guns (for instance, the M41 pulse rifle from ''[[Aliens]]'' was based on an M1A1 Thompson submachine gun, so that is a sci-fi gun which we do allow).  I will have to watch &amp;quot;Double Jeopardy&amp;quot; again to see if that gun was based on a real weapon, but I don't think it was.  I may be wrong because it's been a long time since I've seen that episode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, I have some more guns I've spotted after watching a few of the other episodes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(1.) None of the Nazis in &amp;quot;Super Mann&amp;quot; use Walther PPKs; the pistols they all carry are P38Ks.  The exception is the head Nazi (can't remember his name) who shoots Hank West - he uses a Heckler &amp;amp; Koch USP.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(2.) There are a LOT of guns in &amp;quot;Tempus, Anyone?&amp;quot;  Besides the Desert Eagle Mark VII that Tempus himself carries (I got pictures for that one already), I spotted several M16A1s, a Galil AR, a Remington 870, a Ruger Mini-14, more Glocks and Beretta 92Fs, and a nickel Walther PPK that Tempus himself carries in the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(3.) In the episode &amp;quot;Target: Jimmy Olsen&amp;quot;, the first assassin (Malloy, or whatever his name was) carried a CAR-15 variant, which I think was a Colt Model 653.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(4.) In &amp;quot;Super Mann&amp;quot;, the supermodel Nazi chick used another Chinese Type 69 RPG, though the warhead on it was clearly fake.&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'll watch some more later and see what I find. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sounds good!  There's a lot more weapons in that season, I am sure. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:49, 17 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::That's not a Gold Cup National Match; it doesn't have the target sights.  It's a regular Colt MK IV Series 70, I think.  Judging by the size of the bore, it's also the 9mm model. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:59, 17 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE Australia (2008)==&lt;br /&gt;
You may be right, however I am not confident enough in it to put it in myself. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE:==&lt;br /&gt;
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No, the guy in the picture you posted is holding a Ruger Mini-14 rifle.  I'll have to watch the episode again, but I remember the Galil was seen earlier in the episode when H.G. Wells was showing Lois around the city.  A guy took the Galil out of the trunk of his car. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:28, 9 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re:Ninja Assassin==&lt;br /&gt;
i did thanks a lot its great    [[User:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==User 67.183.66.44==&lt;br /&gt;
Uh, he hasn't been back since he got a temporary ban back in Feb.  So you're talking to thin air.  Sorry. :)  He was notorious for making bad changes to pages. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:20, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==Terence Stamp==&lt;br /&gt;
Wouldn't it be better to have a pic of himself in action on his page than someone else?--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:33, 27 May 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WantedBeretta92S-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:LM-SW586-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
:A pic of him from [[Wanted]] wouldn't be bad, but there isn't a good shot of him with his gun in that film. Since you're the author of his page I figure I would make the suggestion rather than just changing it myself.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE:Carbines, Repeating Rifles==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Good questions.  Here's my take:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* (1.) Yes, carbines and lever-action repeating rifles should go under &amp;quot;rifles.&amp;quot;  And to answer (3.), yes, carbines are a type of rifle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* (2.) As for the [[Ruger Mini-14]], that is a gray area.  If you ask Ruger, they will vehemently deny that the Mini-14 is an &amp;quot;assault rifle&amp;quot;. They sucked up to the Brady Bunch in order to prevent the Mini-14 from being banned as an &amp;quot;assault rifle&amp;quot; during the 1990s when the Assault Weapon Ban was being debated in Congress.  So officially, the Mini-14 has never been classified as an &amp;quot;assault rifle&amp;quot; by law (and Ruger removed the flash hider and bayonet lug to keep it that way).  But most gun owners in America think it's absurd that the Mini-14 is not an assault rifle, but an AR-15 is, since for all practical purposes, both guns do almost the same things.  My personal take on it is that because the Mini-14 isn't a &amp;quot;military-style&amp;quot; weapon, it shouldn't be called an assault rifle, but that's a question of aesthetics.  So long story short, I would probably just put it under &amp;quot;Rifles&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;Assault Rifles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hope that helps you.  Also, the gun that you identified as a SIG-Sauer P226 is actually a S&amp;amp;W auto of some sort.  I think it's a [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 5906]], or maybe a 659 (hard to tell). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE: Real-time strategy games==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, they're allowed, if they have guns that are recognizable as real guns.  But I'd have to see to be sure.  I actually did some work on the page for ''[[Command &amp;amp; Conquer: Red Alert 2]]'' myself, though that game's a bit different because we were IDing the guns seen in the FMV cutscenes, not the game itself. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:42, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Night at the Museum==&lt;br /&gt;
Great work on the page!!!. But &amp;quot;Pshaw!&amp;quot; why did you not bother to identify the Pattern 1777 French Charleville Muskets used by the Napoleonic Soldiers?  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:29, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Reply ==&lt;br /&gt;
...I Didn't&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==To Kenny==&lt;br /&gt;
Moviemaster1993, being the douchebag that he is, was replying to your question as to why he was impersonating an 'official' Transformers site, which he obviously was.  He also just replied to me &amp;quot;Hahahaha you hate me don't you?&amp;quot; even though he does not understand the gravity of the situation.  Illegal postings of pirate images (especially from a major studio) is very dangerous as you well know and this guy just doesn't seem to get it.  He is banned permanently.  He is exposing our entire site to being shut down on legal grounds, and he's an abrasive member to boot.  If you think I am overreacting, let me know :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:19, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Recommend you check Star Wars talk page==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I notce you have been doing a lot of work on the ''[[Star Wars]]'' page. I recommend you check the latest addition to the talk page. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 16:42, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Vampires Suck ==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, you're probably right about how it's not a good idea to make a one-gun page.  I support the deletion of it. --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] 23:16, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==delete images and pages==&lt;br /&gt;
I'll go through all of them when I get more time later on today.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:51, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M3 Carbine pic==&lt;br /&gt;
Yep, I liked Kin93's big pic of the gun better than the one I had.  The one I had was not my pic but a fixed version of the previous crappy pic.  The previous version was tilted at a weird angle.  All I did was straighten it and re-upload the crap picture.  I welcomed a new version of that gun.  But then I saw that you realized that he was not overwriting an original MPM picture, which is usually a good photo! LOL  :)   BTW, thanks.  You're looking out for my pics which is appreciated none the less.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:27, 30 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Again, I appreciated MORE the fact that you were being protective of the original MPM pics, which is a good thing! LOL.  Of course we both agree that replacing a crappy jacked pic is preferred.  No one I know has that M3 setup any more anyway.  Those things went the way of the dinosaur back in the early 1980s.  :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:36, 31 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Saving Private Ryan ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I've replaced the images with new desaturated versions.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:11, 7 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==My screencaps?==&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure what you mean.  Which ones?  Ben41 has access to more Blueray DVDs than I do, so I'm alittle confused.  Usually his shots are better. The only time I do better is when there is a HIGH DEF trailer.  I download the 1080i Version and capture that at maximum scan on a Mac Pro Tower with a HUGE cinema flatscreen display and then crop and adjust in Photoshop. :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:02, 29 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==uploading images==&lt;br /&gt;
When you upload a file, you can add &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[Category:Screenshot]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; in the summary section, rather than edit it every time. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 00:40, 19 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hi. About screencappin'... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi!&lt;br /&gt;
I was just wondering, how do you take you're screenshots? Do you take screencaps from DVD's or BLU-Ray's? What kind of program do you use? --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 19:58, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, I myself use VLC player for both DVD &amp;amp; BLU-Ray... and Gimp 2 for editing, if necessary. But anyways, the reason I asked is your screencaps. You said you screencap mostly from DVD's. How come the screencaps are so big then? Do you blow them up with a picture tool? Most DVD's only give out small (about 700 pixels or 800 pixels, give or take), but your screencaps are (randomly) anywhere from 1,017 pixels to 1873 pixels. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but you shouldn't do that. I mean of course, you should take screencaps, as we need them, screencaps make a page look good and professional. ''However''... you shouldn't drag the sides of the WMP to make the images bigger. You're only stretching them, not actually improving the quality of the images. I mean when you blow them up, they look pixelated, and unclear. You're actually making the worse. If you wanna get better (and bigger) images, I suggest you get BLU-Rays and screencap them, as they are already more sharp and of better quality. But if not, DVD's are fine, most people screencap off of them. But yeah, treat DVD's as DVD's and HD as HD. Even though you're using WMP, I suggest you try VLC again, after downloading and installing some ''codecs'' (Try K-Lite codec pack). You might not have the proper codecs for VLC to run your DVD's. Again, I don't wanna sound rude or aggressive, and I'm sorry if I did. Cheers, and thanks mate. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:42, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== No problem ==&lt;br /&gt;
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No problem, man. And again, sorry if I sounded aggressive. I'm usually pretty straight-forward though ;) --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Re: Crysis 2 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm stuck behind a proxy, so online gaming is a no-go. I'll visit a relative with a decent internet connection though, albeit for only 2 days. No idea if I try it out then. Oh, and the Jackal screenshot IS from the Nanosuit Progression Trailer. Go through it frame by frame and you'll see it. Whoever edited the thing must have accidentaly left it in. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 06:57, 4 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Deleted Images ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Unfortunately, there is a bug in the software that doesn't allow anyone to delete images right now.  For some reason, when you're on an image page, the site doesn't recognize that you're logged in.   I've informed Bunni about it.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:35, 11 March 2011 (MSK)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re: Help identifying vehicles==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The vehicles in the screenshots you showed me are as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Apache?-P4F.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mi-28 Havoc]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:tank-P4f.jpg|thumb|none|600px|LAV-25 APC (note the twin TOW launchers on either side of the turret are incorrect for the real LAV-25)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:tank2-P4f.jpg|thumb|none|600px|BTR-90 APC (again, this vehicle does not have missile armament in real life)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:jet-P4f.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two F-35 Lightning II's with a MiG-29 Fulcrum behind them]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hope this helps. On the subject of ''BF: Play4Free'', is the game officially released yet, or is it still in beta stage? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:28, 24 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for the improvements Kenny, I was about to do that myself. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:51, 6 April 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RE Militia ==&lt;br /&gt;
The Screencaps are from Verizon Fios TV Online, not a DVD. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:56, 27 June 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tremors BluRay ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for asking ahead of time.  When I use VLC, I add a little bit more sharpness to the shots.   I would request before you start overwriting all of them, that you would do one or two because I would like to compare.   I think it's better to actually overwrite an existing pic instead of uploading completely new ones because you can see what the older pics look like compare to the new ones.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:53, 1 July 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The screenshot looks great.  Go ahead.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:11, 1 July 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Aliens blu-ray ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Please check the dimensions on the screenshots.  The ones that are at 853x480 are from the DVD and can be replaced.   There are a few from the Blu-ray and do not need to be replaced.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 13:44, 11 August 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Image uploading ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It takes a few minutes to a few hours for the cache to update the thumbnails. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 20:12, 4 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== JD0556 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not welcoming him at all, I'm just letting know him isn't accomplishing anything. First sign of trouble, he's gone. Trust me, I'm not on his side for anything, I don't like him anymore then you do, I'm just toying with him, and keeping him busy.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:55, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, sorry it seemed that way. Trust me, I would never welcome any vandal to this site. I might have talked some sense into him though, but who knows, I don't trust him. He is going to be monitored though, so again sorry for any confusion.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:07, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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So what are you saying? I'm not trying to be friends with him or anything, I just didn't want to block him straight away until he did something, I'm just trying to talk some sense into him. I'm just really tired of seeing all that vandalism every other day, and I was the one who had to delete all of it last time. --[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I can't believe how calm he actually was, I was expecting a long line of rants. Well, he may actually leave us alone this time, I haven't had any messages from him in the past half hour. I'll let the other admins know so he is kept underwatch. Thanks for your concern.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:46, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The ones that are still on this site? I'm not so sure about them. I know he uploaded them onto his Movie Weapon Wiki, but I'm not worried about that. If you want to know my opinion, I would rather just delete them, I really don't like the idea of them remaining on the site if they are a copyright violation. Should I discuss this on the Transformers 3 talk page, or just get rid of them?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:00, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I guess we should discuss it first. I'm sure MPM2008 will respond to you eventually, but he's not the quickest one to reply since he is so busy. I'll ask them what they think should happen to them. What about the ones uploaded by Commando552? Are they from Imdb or some other known source?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:26, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, thanks. Just wanted to make sure. Likewise.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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YEah, I saw Ben41's comments, and hopefully he'll leave us alone now. I have also read MoviePropMasters reply, and I would say he knows the best thing to do in this matter. Hopefully once the dvd comes out, we'll be in the clear.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 14:00, 10 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Transformers BTS==&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry for the delay.  Yes, we still have the images on our server, but since the film was released in theaters, I don't believe that changes the legal status of the pics.  From what I gather, they were telephoto paparazzi photos of actors on the set.  Not officially released but taken by a fan.  Now this happens all the time and publications like the National Enquirer print stuff like that, all the time as well.  I hope to get all the images we need from the officially released DVD/BluRay since that is an actual release.  We may allow some of the pics, but I would be a lot calmer about the entire scenario when the film is available on DVD/Bluray.  The mods may discuss this, but I tend to be very cautious when it comes to any activity that may bring IMFDB under the scrutiny of Major Motion Picture Studio lawyers.  Trans 3 is such a high profile film and IMFDB is growing in stature within the industry itself.  I would hate to have us get tainted in any way by any 'take down order' by the studio lawyers.  But then I'm super cautious when dealing with certain entities in the business. But I'm not 100% against the images either.  Perhaps the nature of the source of the images, someone whom we believe to be 'not entirely stable' also taints the images.  '''You stated that the facebook account was suddenly deleted.  Would this indicate some LEGAL action by the studio?'''  I fear so.   So if you're asking my opinion, I would rather wait than risk doing anything to piss off the studios.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:53, 9 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Forum ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Thank you for your reply. Hopefully over time I will be allowed to join the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Cadet Programs ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It is nice to see another young person interested in the military. I am in US Army JROTC and and the Civil Air Patrol cadet program. Is this your first year?--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:18, 25 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes we do all kind of community service from picking up parks along the river to cleaning the stands after the football games. We also have a color guard team, a drill team, a rifle team, and a raider team that specializes in the Army Physical Fitness Test.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 16:37, 27 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
== Talk Pages ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm new to IMFDB and I don't know how to find the talk page to rely to the help Kenny gave me. Is the Discussion page the talk page?&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=462740</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=462740"/>
		<updated>2011-09-26T03:26:41Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my name but i will let you know that i live in Wyoming and am in high school if that makes any difference.&lt;br /&gt;
== About me ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am an avid upland and big game hunter and have been shooting guns for as long as I can remember. I do not talk down about any gun that I have not shot or at least held.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=462735</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=462735"/>
		<updated>2011-09-26T03:21:58Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my name but i will let you know that i live in Wyoming and am in high school if that makes any difference.&lt;br /&gt;
== About me ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am an avid upland and big game hunter and have been shooting guns for as long as I can remember.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Kenny99&amp;diff=462734</id>
		<title>User talk:Kenny99</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Kenny99&amp;diff=462734"/>
		<updated>2011-09-26T03:18:15Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Erm...==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not sure how you think uploading a picture of a ''Korean'' tank is going to prove anything about what American tanks in Crysis are armed with. I put two images side by side in the article. It is exactly, precisely the same weapon model. There's no M60D anywhere, just a Type 88 with spade grips. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 04:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Yes, but this isn't the internet movie firearm noise database, we're going by what the gun looks like. Both guns are identical, so writing them up as if they're not doesn't make sense. And personally I haven't noticed any difference in firing sounds either, so I find that claim a little odd.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;The ASV Anti-Vehicle is definately a 20mm [the game actually says so when you take control of the Korean armoured vehicle armed with one during &amp;quot;Shore Leave&amp;quot;] so it's not an M2; it certainly has some design elements copied from the M2, but there's elements of the H&amp;amp;K GMG in there [especially the barrel] and the ammo belt is ''huge'', much too large for a 50 cal. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 04:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
**The majority of Crysis' weapons are based closely on real-life weapons, many being combinations of parts from several; that goes for the majority of the vehicles, too [for example, the US tank is a combination of the M1A1 Abrams, British Challenger I and Israeli Merkava 3: I don't know why they went for old versions of the three tanks, mind]. Avoiding precisely replicating real weapons means you don't have to pay fees to anyone for the image of that weapon to appear in your game; it seems 'Frankenguns' like the ones in Crysis aren't enough to get copyright claims filed. [[User:Tim|Tim]] 04:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== I think the article on Crysis is pretty much finished. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It doesn't need any more images, particularly low-quality, non-gameplay images. I think it's fine as it is and we should focus on getting something like Far Cry 2 up to the same standard. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 18:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== User page ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nothing to do with you, don't worry, it's just a joke. Both of those users are me [Tim is my gaming PC, since I forgot the password to this one]. Also, could you put comments on my discussion page rather than my user page? Thanks. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 12:06, 30 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Hand Held Minigun==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Kenny, Not sure what you mean on the post. I stated the info on the forum and it was posted on the page. The hand hold mount and backpack are a completely new design used for the first time on [[G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra]] then used again on [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]. I designed the mount and built it for the show check out my work on the [[SK 1878 shotgun]] page. - [[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]] 09:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RE: MG42==&lt;br /&gt;
I re-checked on a high quality bootleg of the movie and you only see the Germans use an MG34, the same one Creed picks up and mows down the gunners with. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
==RE: DSR-1==&lt;br /&gt;
Damn. Thanks for the info-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 22:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==hey==&lt;br /&gt;
You have no right for saying that wise shit. Nobody cares about that,you bastard. [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Lisle202==&lt;br /&gt;
Hrm, I failed to notice his comment left to you. Because I'm so generous, he gets one more chance. If he doesn't do anything bad in the future, he can go about what he wants. If he tries that smarmy shit with me or any other admins., he's banned for good, no second chances. Same for if he uploads bootlegs. BTW, he seems to have a problem writing with proper grammer (lack of spacing in words, spelling &amp;quot;muzzle&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;mussle&amp;quot;, etc.) He even showed this poor grammar in the message he sent to you: ''Nobody cares about that,you bastard.'' Thanks for informing me of this, I've been busy working on Watchmen (which his works interupted) so I haven't been able to patrol the site in full like I usually can. Let me know if he does anything else in the future. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, I wanted to point one thing out. In the bootlegs he uploaded, the gun he listed as a Kar98k was in fact the MG34 (you could even see the bipod and such), so if that's what you spotted in the original film, I'm not sure the Kar98k was ever present at all. I think it is kind of ironic, I had put some bootlegs for this movie on the forum (since I know bootlegs don't go here) to confirm and deny certain things, and I did a much better job finding good shots. :) - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Well, it'd be another article. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And I don't think it's even been announced yet, so we'll wait and see. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Warhead is basically just an add-on / side story, most of the weapons are the same and it isn't worth a whole article. I'd imagine a full-blown sequel would have a lot more new guns in it, so would get a new article. Anyway, calm down, it's probably not going to sneak up on us in the next five minutes. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:55, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
**Type &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; [without the nowiki tags, obviously] after your comment and it automatically signs and date-stamps your reply. Anyway, I'm off to bed now, so catch you later. Also, Tim is my other other account, I'm bad at remembering passwords so just use this one. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 15:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ja==&lt;br /&gt;
Du zerstört meine Arbeit, Kenny99! Und die Waffe in Lois und Clark ist eine Glock 18! - [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]] 16:07, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*You should stop saying that it's an RPK on [[Journey from the Fall]]!! It's not an RPK-grrr!!And I don't understand German. [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 16:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*Ich verstehe nicht, Englisch! - [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]] 16:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==German==&lt;br /&gt;
He's indeed speaking German. In his first comment he said &amp;quot;What the? That does not look like an M1911A1.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To translate his newest comment to you:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Yes&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You are destroying my work, Kenny99! And the weapon in Lois and Clark is a Glock 18!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After you reply, he said:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I do not understand English.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So basically, he doesn't understand a word we are saying, so in order to talk to him, I'll need to brush up on my German grammar. I can translate but writing in the proper way (since it requires proper cases and grammar) will be more difficult. He shouldn't be on an English speaking sight if he can't speak English. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
:He CAN speak english. He is just messing with us.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, anyway I beat you to it and if he can speak German he has a long message to read. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Re:==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes,but I just started in the Beginner's course of German. I understand that this lisle or whatever is messing around on a non German site. - [[User:Crysis|Crysis]] 22:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Re: MI2 Help==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey Kenny, The weapon fired from the helicopter is a M4 carbine with a C-More sight that's mounted above the handguard and has a M16/AR15 BRASS CATCHER made by EL Manufacturing. Look at the photo carefully now that you know and you can see features like a carrying handle and the hump in the upper receiver for the cam pin to rotate. Hope this helps you out. -[[User:Phoenixent|Phoenixent]] 06:46, 24 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==X-Men Origins==&lt;br /&gt;
The videos on IMDB have a little play button in the center that doesn't go away, so that would be obvious in each image. Anyway, XOW will likely be out on DVD in the not too distant future, and I'll bne sure to buy it opening day and put much better quality images on the page than those from HD trailers, so just wait a little. -  [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Spider Man==&lt;br /&gt;
I own all of the Spider Mans on DVD, so if you don't do two, I'll take care of it later. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Lisle202==&lt;br /&gt;
Ha ha, Sie sind lustig. Englisch Diese Worte sind schwer zu sagen. Talk to you yesterday. - [[User:Lisle202|Lisle202]] 16:26, 27 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== RPK or RPD? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I think it may be an RPK since in the first shot the gun doesn't have that Square shaped hand guard that the RPD has. But in the second shot we see that it has an hooded front sight. I don't think the RPK has an hooded front sight. The RPD does however has one. It could be both. The guns coulda been switched. Sorry, i can't help.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Because i love this website ==&lt;br /&gt;
And i love editing wikis. I love wikipedia in general. Also, what Vietnam Scene are you talking about? The one in Wolverine?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 18:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== RE: Flintlock Pistols and Rifles ==&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for adding in the info on the pages!. It must be noted that these weapons may be hard to identify as they didnt have the same standards those days as many were made by various makers. The rifle image you uploaded is actually a percussion cap rifle of similar appearence that was made during the very early 19th century.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PS: I lost connection with the internet, sorry for leaving the page blank.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 16:23PM, 31/07/2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Announcement:1==&lt;br /&gt;
I posted a picture of a sporterized Mauser Gewehr 1898 by accident so I'm not sure if it will be approved or not. Also it's was meant for Public Enemies,not for the entier pages. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I reverted it back, if you want upload the sporter version, put it under a different file name thanks.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fixed it, and uploaded your image seperately. Anyway, what's the difference between the the regular Mauser Gewehr 1898 and the sporterized version?.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 02:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Lois &amp;amp; Clark==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've watched a handful of episodes of ''[[Lois &amp;amp; Clark: The New Adventures of Superman|Lois and Clark]]'' on YouTube, and I've noticed you really made quite a few mistakes regarding the guns which appear in the show, which makes me suspicious of some of the other guns you IDed.  Among those I've noticed so far:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* (1.) There is no Beretta 92F in the Pilot, and you missed out on the only two guns which DID appear in that episode - a S&amp;amp;W 3913 &amp;quot;Ladysmith&amp;quot; and an Uzi.&lt;br /&gt;
* (2.) Lex's pistol in &amp;quot;Requiem for a Superhero&amp;quot; is not a gold Desert Eagle. It's some type of revolver (I can't tell what kind), and it's unlikely that the Mark XIX variant of the Desert Eagle appears in any episodes of the show because this version was not introduced until 1995.&lt;br /&gt;
* (3.) None of the robbers in &amp;quot;Fly Hard&amp;quot; use MP5 variants. They use Glock 17s, MAC-10s, Ruger Mini-14s with Muzzelite bullpup stocks, and a pistol-grip shotgun that appears to be a Mossberg 500 Persuader.  Off the top of my head, I can recall one episode of the show where an MP5 was used in a drive-by shooting, but I can't remember which one (I only remember that it involved the annoying and trigger-happy super woman).&lt;br /&gt;
* (4.) I have no idea if the Colt Model 733 is in &amp;quot;Barbarians at the Planet&amp;quot;, but I have seen XM177s in a couple other episodes, so it's most likely that those are what you saw. The Model 733 isn't the only CAR-15 variant that existed before the M4.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I realize you may be more into guns from 1914-1975, so what I would recommend is that you post more screencaps if you have them and maybe we can help out more with the guns. There's nothing wrong with being unsure about certain guns, but it's best if you just admit this on the page instead of stating something that's incorrect. That way, other people who have seen the show can make a positive ID later. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 3 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Re: Announcement 1 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for the great info Kenny, I will probably find it useful someday. By the way, sorry if I was a little harsh when I reverted the image last night, I didn't know it was an accidental overwrite until afterwards.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 01:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== KENNY!!! ==&lt;br /&gt;
Stop edting that Thing Thing 2 article and tag it so the Admins can delete it.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:37, 11 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Okay then. I'm not angry. I'm annoyed. Besides, this week we alredy had a Thing Thing 1 page. It got deleted.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:46, 11 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Colt 1895 Machine gun ==&lt;br /&gt;
I already built a page for that machine gun a few months ago. Here it is [[Colt 1895 Automatic Machine Gun]] --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 02:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Colt ==&lt;br /&gt;
It wasn't used by the US armed forces until the 1980s i think. So no.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 21:14, 14 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==re: Lois and Clark==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The YouTube video is too blurry to be sure, but I doubt it's a 1st Generation Glock 17. The Glock didn't start to appear in movies until around 1990, and by then, the 2nd Generation models had been available for several years. Personally, I would like to get rid of the Gen 1 Glock image from the Glock 17 page, because unless anyone has proof otherwise, it's safe to assume most Glocks in movies/TV shows are 2nd Generation models. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:He's probably right about the S&amp;amp;W 3913. But personally, I don't think that a gun deserves a different entry just because of its slide markings (otherwise, we'd have to give the Beretta 92F and M9 different entries, which is something that I have already opposed and told IMFDB members ''not'' to do). Also, here are some other things I've noticed:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(1.) The MP5A3s are not the &amp;quot;Navy&amp;quot; version; they seem to have the SEF lower receivers. Might want to replace the A3 Navy picture with one of the other A3 pictures.&lt;br /&gt;
:(2.) The Desert Eagle used by Ari is probably not a Mark XIX, because the Mark XIX wasn't around when that episode aired. It's more likely the older Mark I or Mark VII, one of those two.&lt;br /&gt;
:(3.) We have a picture of a Mini-14 with a Muzzelite stock, so ditch the picture of the regular Mini-14 and replace it.&lt;br /&gt;
:(4.) One other request...do you mind adding another picture of Lex's Beretta 92FS Inox? The picture of him putting it in the case is a little blurry; you should add a picture of him checking the chamber (which occurs only a few seconds earlier).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:That's all I see for now. Anything else I can help with? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Here is what I had in mind:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::[[Image:LC1x20-Inox-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::He briefly checks the chamber, lets the slide release, then puts it in the case. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Scardino's revolver==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:revolverlc.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Scardino aims his revolver at Lois and Clark for disguising themselves as workers, but lets them go.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:revolverlc2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Lois uses Scardino's revolver to stop McCarthy from killing Scardino.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm pretty sure that this is a [[Ruger GP100|Ruger GP101]]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:32, 30 August 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:All of them seem to have the forward assist, so they're M16A1s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RE Steamboy==&lt;br /&gt;
Just a preference, sort of like how some people don't like rap music.&lt;br /&gt;
I liked Spirited Away, but thats about it. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:28, 4 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Re: pistol==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Looks to me like a [[SIG-Sauer P230]]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Re:==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*(1.) I'm not sure what the golden pistol is.  It's not seen clearly enough to tell much.  But it's definitely way too small to be a Desert Eagle, as the page used to say.&lt;br /&gt;
*(2.) Yes, you are correct, there does appear to be an MP5K in the background of that picture.&lt;br /&gt;
*(3.) Crysis is full of shit, and I explained why on the page.&lt;br /&gt;
*(4.) The weapon is indeed a sawed-off double-barrel shotgun, but I'm not sure what kind.  Double-barrel shotguns are very hard to tell apart.  Most of us just link to the [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]] page and post the gun we ''think'' it might be, but it's often very hard for us to tell, so we rarely bother.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:19, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks so much!  Great to see that this exists.  The YouTube videos were, unfortunately, kind of limited, but it's great to see that it's available elsewhere. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:28, 14 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Making Franken gun pics==&lt;br /&gt;
It's frowned upon, especially by me. i.e. taking my original pics and photoshopping them into other configurations.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:33, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Brothers Bloom==&lt;br /&gt;
I would say its possibly a FEG clone of a hi-power, but I'm probably wrong -[[User:Mythekal|Mythekal]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RERE==&lt;br /&gt;
Here, you couldn't find it because it was listed under &amp;quot;Browning BDA&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Browning_BDA --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RE Time Crisis==&lt;br /&gt;
Nope, I've never played it -but looking at the symbol for the &amp;quot;MSG0-90&amp;quot; in the game it looks more like an AR-15 with an MSG-90 fore end. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:12, 13 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Glock 17L in &amp;quot;Tempus Fugitive&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It isn't converted to a machine pistol.  The gun store owner says it's a ''semi''-automatic, which means it's '''not''' a machine pistol.  He also calls the bullets &amp;quot;puppies&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;poopies&amp;quot;.  I corrected the entry and also added another picture. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:16, 14 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I will try, but unfortunately, I'm in graduate school now, and those bastards make absolutely sure we have too much work to have much fun.  Which means, sadly, less time to watch old TV shows on YouTube.  Also, I have another project - ''[[Level 9]]'' - in the works right now which is consuming most of the time I do spend working on IMFDB.  But I will try to help whenever possible. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 03:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==George of the Jungle==&lt;br /&gt;
You can do whatever you want, the movie has guns and is thus allowed on IMFDb. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
::I deleted it because it was a low effort page that wasn't considered site worthy in its current condition. With screencaps, gun images, links, and a poster the page is considered complete so is allowed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Is it neccessary to screencap some of Wolverine? I can put out higher definition images so shouldn't I just do it? I already have everything saved. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Nam M1903s ==&lt;br /&gt;
Makes sense. Thanks for the information.--[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Re: Whew==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The sniper rifle looks to be a Ruger Model 77, but I'm not sure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for the guns in the water fountain, the gun next to the AR-15 HBAR is an Uzi (you already documented its appearance in the same episode).  The nickel-plated shotgun appears to be a Winchester of some type, but I'm not sure about that one, either. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Sci-fi guns are only allowed on IMFDB if there is proof that they are based on existing guns (for instance, the M41 pulse rifle from ''[[Aliens]]'' was based on an M1A1 Thompson submachine gun, so that is a sci-fi gun which we do allow).  I will have to watch &amp;quot;Double Jeopardy&amp;quot; again to see if that gun was based on a real weapon, but I don't think it was.  I may be wrong because it's been a long time since I've seen that episode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, I have some more guns I've spotted after watching a few of the other episodes:&lt;br /&gt;
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:(1.) None of the Nazis in &amp;quot;Super Mann&amp;quot; use Walther PPKs; the pistols they all carry are P38Ks.  The exception is the head Nazi (can't remember his name) who shoots Hank West - he uses a Heckler &amp;amp; Koch USP.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(2.) There are a LOT of guns in &amp;quot;Tempus, Anyone?&amp;quot;  Besides the Desert Eagle Mark VII that Tempus himself carries (I got pictures for that one already), I spotted several M16A1s, a Galil AR, a Remington 870, a Ruger Mini-14, more Glocks and Beretta 92Fs, and a nickel Walther PPK that Tempus himself carries in the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(3.) In the episode &amp;quot;Target: Jimmy Olsen&amp;quot;, the first assassin (Malloy, or whatever his name was) carried a CAR-15 variant, which I think was a Colt Model 653.&lt;br /&gt;
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:(4.) In &amp;quot;Super Mann&amp;quot;, the supermodel Nazi chick used another Chinese Type 69 RPG, though the warhead on it was clearly fake.&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'll watch some more later and see what I find. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Sounds good!  There's a lot more weapons in that season, I am sure. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:49, 17 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::That's not a Gold Cup National Match; it doesn't have the target sights.  It's a regular Colt MK IV Series 70, I think.  Judging by the size of the bore, it's also the 9mm model. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:59, 17 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE Australia (2008)==&lt;br /&gt;
You may be right, however I am not confident enough in it to put it in myself. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE:==&lt;br /&gt;
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No, the guy in the picture you posted is holding a Ruger Mini-14 rifle.  I'll have to watch the episode again, but I remember the Galil was seen earlier in the episode when H.G. Wells was showing Lois around the city.  A guy took the Galil out of the trunk of his car. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:28, 9 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re:Ninja Assassin==&lt;br /&gt;
i did thanks a lot its great    [[User:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==User 67.183.66.44==&lt;br /&gt;
Uh, he hasn't been back since he got a temporary ban back in Feb.  So you're talking to thin air.  Sorry. :)  He was notorious for making bad changes to pages. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 04:20, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==Terence Stamp==&lt;br /&gt;
Wouldn't it be better to have a pic of himself in action on his page than someone else?--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:33, 27 May 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WantedBeretta92S-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:LM-SW586-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
:A pic of him from [[Wanted]] wouldn't be bad, but there isn't a good shot of him with his gun in that film. Since you're the author of his page I figure I would make the suggestion rather than just changing it myself.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE:Carbines, Repeating Rifles==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Good questions.  Here's my take:&lt;br /&gt;
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* (1.) Yes, carbines and lever-action repeating rifles should go under &amp;quot;rifles.&amp;quot;  And to answer (3.), yes, carbines are a type of rifle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* (2.) As for the [[Ruger Mini-14]], that is a gray area.  If you ask Ruger, they will vehemently deny that the Mini-14 is an &amp;quot;assault rifle&amp;quot;. They sucked up to the Brady Bunch in order to prevent the Mini-14 from being banned as an &amp;quot;assault rifle&amp;quot; during the 1990s when the Assault Weapon Ban was being debated in Congress.  So officially, the Mini-14 has never been classified as an &amp;quot;assault rifle&amp;quot; by law (and Ruger removed the flash hider and bayonet lug to keep it that way).  But most gun owners in America think it's absurd that the Mini-14 is not an assault rifle, but an AR-15 is, since for all practical purposes, both guns do almost the same things.  My personal take on it is that because the Mini-14 isn't a &amp;quot;military-style&amp;quot; weapon, it shouldn't be called an assault rifle, but that's a question of aesthetics.  So long story short, I would probably just put it under &amp;quot;Rifles&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;Assault Rifles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hope that helps you.  Also, the gun that you identified as a SIG-Sauer P226 is actually a S&amp;amp;W auto of some sort.  I think it's a [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 5906]], or maybe a 659 (hard to tell). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RE: Real-time strategy games==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, they're allowed, if they have guns that are recognizable as real guns.  But I'd have to see to be sure.  I actually did some work on the page for ''[[Command &amp;amp; Conquer: Red Alert 2]]'' myself, though that game's a bit different because we were IDing the guns seen in the FMV cutscenes, not the game itself. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:42, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Night at the Museum==&lt;br /&gt;
Great work on the page!!!. But &amp;quot;Pshaw!&amp;quot; why did you not bother to identify the Pattern 1777 French Charleville Muskets used by the Napoleonic Soldiers?  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:29, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Reply ==&lt;br /&gt;
...I Didn't&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==To Kenny==&lt;br /&gt;
Moviemaster1993, being the douchebag that he is, was replying to your question as to why he was impersonating an 'official' Transformers site, which he obviously was.  He also just replied to me &amp;quot;Hahahaha you hate me don't you?&amp;quot; even though he does not understand the gravity of the situation.  Illegal postings of pirate images (especially from a major studio) is very dangerous as you well know and this guy just doesn't seem to get it.  He is banned permanently.  He is exposing our entire site to being shut down on legal grounds, and he's an abrasive member to boot.  If you think I am overreacting, let me know :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:19, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Recommend you check Star Wars talk page==&lt;br /&gt;
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I notce you have been doing a lot of work on the ''[[Star Wars]]'' page. I recommend you check the latest addition to the talk page. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 16:42, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Vampires Suck ==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, you're probably right about how it's not a good idea to make a one-gun page.  I support the deletion of it. --[[User:Redram355|redram355]] 23:16, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
==delete images and pages==&lt;br /&gt;
I'll go through all of them when I get more time later on today.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:51, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M3 Carbine pic==&lt;br /&gt;
Yep, I liked Kin93's big pic of the gun better than the one I had.  The one I had was not my pic but a fixed version of the previous crappy pic.  The previous version was tilted at a weird angle.  All I did was straighten it and re-upload the crap picture.  I welcomed a new version of that gun.  But then I saw that you realized that he was not overwriting an original MPM picture, which is usually a good photo! LOL  :)   BTW, thanks.  You're looking out for my pics which is appreciated none the less.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:27, 30 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Again, I appreciated MORE the fact that you were being protective of the original MPM pics, which is a good thing! LOL.  Of course we both agree that replacing a crappy jacked pic is preferred.  No one I know has that M3 setup any more anyway.  Those things went the way of the dinosaur back in the early 1980s.  :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:36, 31 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Saving Private Ryan ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I've replaced the images with new desaturated versions.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:11, 7 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==My screencaps?==&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure what you mean.  Which ones?  Ben41 has access to more Blueray DVDs than I do, so I'm alittle confused.  Usually his shots are better. The only time I do better is when there is a HIGH DEF trailer.  I download the 1080i Version and capture that at maximum scan on a Mac Pro Tower with a HUGE cinema flatscreen display and then crop and adjust in Photoshop. :)  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:02, 29 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==uploading images==&lt;br /&gt;
When you upload a file, you can add &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[Category:Screenshot]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; in the summary section, rather than edit it every time. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 00:40, 19 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hi. About screencappin'... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi!&lt;br /&gt;
I was just wondering, how do you take you're screenshots? Do you take screencaps from DVD's or BLU-Ray's? What kind of program do you use? --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 19:58, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, I myself use VLC player for both DVD &amp;amp; BLU-Ray... and Gimp 2 for editing, if necessary. But anyways, the reason I asked is your screencaps. You said you screencap mostly from DVD's. How come the screencaps are so big then? Do you blow them up with a picture tool? Most DVD's only give out small (about 700 pixels or 800 pixels, give or take), but your screencaps are (randomly) anywhere from 1,017 pixels to 1873 pixels. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but you shouldn't do that. I mean of course, you should take screencaps, as we need them, screencaps make a page look good and professional. ''However''... you shouldn't drag the sides of the WMP to make the images bigger. You're only stretching them, not actually improving the quality of the images. I mean when you blow them up, they look pixelated, and unclear. You're actually making the worse. If you wanna get better (and bigger) images, I suggest you get BLU-Rays and screencap them, as they are already more sharp and of better quality. But if not, DVD's are fine, most people screencap off of them. But yeah, treat DVD's as DVD's and HD as HD. Even though you're using WMP, I suggest you try VLC again, after downloading and installing some ''codecs'' (Try K-Lite codec pack). You might not have the proper codecs for VLC to run your DVD's. Again, I don't wanna sound rude or aggressive, and I'm sorry if I did. Cheers, and thanks mate. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:42, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== No problem ==&lt;br /&gt;
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No problem, man. And again, sorry if I sounded aggressive. I'm usually pretty straight-forward though ;) --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Re: Crysis 2 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm stuck behind a proxy, so online gaming is a no-go. I'll visit a relative with a decent internet connection though, albeit for only 2 days. No idea if I try it out then. Oh, and the Jackal screenshot IS from the Nanosuit Progression Trailer. Go through it frame by frame and you'll see it. Whoever edited the thing must have accidentaly left it in. --[[User:Milkovich|Milkovich]] 06:57, 4 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Deleted Images ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Unfortunately, there is a bug in the software that doesn't allow anyone to delete images right now.  For some reason, when you're on an image page, the site doesn't recognize that you're logged in.   I've informed Bunni about it.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:35, 11 March 2011 (MSK)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Re: Help identifying vehicles==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The vehicles in the screenshots you showed me are as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Apache?-P4F.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mi-28 Havoc]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:tank-P4f.jpg|thumb|none|600px|LAV-25 APC (note the twin TOW launchers on either side of the turret are incorrect for the real LAV-25)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:tank2-P4f.jpg|thumb|none|600px|BTR-90 APC (again, this vehicle does not have missile armament in real life)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:jet-P4f.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two F-35 Lightning II's with a MiG-29 Fulcrum behind them]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hope this helps. On the subject of ''BF: Play4Free'', is the game officially released yet, or is it still in beta stage? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:28, 24 March 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for the improvements Kenny, I was about to do that myself. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:51, 6 April 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RE Militia ==&lt;br /&gt;
The Screencaps are from Verizon Fios TV Online, not a DVD. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:56, 27 June 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tremors BluRay ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for asking ahead of time.  When I use VLC, I add a little bit more sharpness to the shots.   I would request before you start overwriting all of them, that you would do one or two because I would like to compare.   I think it's better to actually overwrite an existing pic instead of uploading completely new ones because you can see what the older pics look like compare to the new ones.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:53, 1 July 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The screenshot looks great.  Go ahead.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 22:11, 1 July 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Aliens blu-ray ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Please check the dimensions on the screenshots.  The ones that are at 853x480 are from the DVD and can be replaced.   There are a few from the Blu-ray and do not need to be replaced.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 13:44, 11 August 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Image uploading ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It takes a few minutes to a few hours for the cache to update the thumbnails. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 20:12, 4 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== JD0556 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not welcoming him at all, I'm just letting know him isn't accomplishing anything. First sign of trouble, he's gone. Trust me, I'm not on his side for anything, I don't like him anymore then you do, I'm just toying with him, and keeping him busy.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 21:55, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, sorry it seemed that way. Trust me, I would never welcome any vandal to this site. I might have talked some sense into him though, but who knows, I don't trust him. He is going to be monitored though, so again sorry for any confusion.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:07, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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So what are you saying? I'm not trying to be friends with him or anything, I just didn't want to block him straight away until he did something, I'm just trying to talk some sense into him. I'm just really tired of seeing all that vandalism every other day, and I was the one who had to delete all of it last time. --[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I can't believe how calm he actually was, I was expecting a long line of rants. Well, he may actually leave us alone this time, I haven't had any messages from him in the past half hour. I'll let the other admins know so he is kept underwatch. Thanks for your concern.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:46, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The ones that are still on this site? I'm not so sure about them. I know he uploaded them onto his Movie Weapon Wiki, but I'm not worried about that. If you want to know my opinion, I would rather just delete them, I really don't like the idea of them remaining on the site if they are a copyright violation. Should I discuss this on the Transformers 3 talk page, or just get rid of them?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:00, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I guess we should discuss it first. I'm sure MPM2008 will respond to you eventually, but he's not the quickest one to reply since he is so busy. I'll ask them what they think should happen to them. What about the ones uploaded by Commando552? Are they from Imdb or some other known source?--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:26, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, thanks. Just wanted to make sure. Likewise.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:32, 8 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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YEah, I saw Ben41's comments, and hopefully he'll leave us alone now. I have also read MoviePropMasters reply, and I would say he knows the best thing to do in this matter. Hopefully once the dvd comes out, we'll be in the clear.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 14:00, 10 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Transformers BTS==&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry for the delay.  Yes, we still have the images on our server, but since the film was released in theaters, I don't believe that changes the legal status of the pics.  From what I gather, they were telephoto paparazzi photos of actors on the set.  Not officially released but taken by a fan.  Now this happens all the time and publications like the National Enquirer print stuff like that, all the time as well.  I hope to get all the images we need from the officially released DVD/BluRay since that is an actual release.  We may allow some of the pics, but I would be a lot calmer about the entire scenario when the film is available on DVD/Bluray.  The mods may discuss this, but I tend to be very cautious when it comes to any activity that may bring IMFDB under the scrutiny of Major Motion Picture Studio lawyers.  Trans 3 is such a high profile film and IMFDB is growing in stature within the industry itself.  I would hate to have us get tainted in any way by any 'take down order' by the studio lawyers.  But then I'm super cautious when dealing with certain entities in the business. But I'm not 100% against the images either.  Perhaps the nature of the source of the images, someone whom we believe to be 'not entirely stable' also taints the images.  '''You stated that the facebook account was suddenly deleted.  Would this indicate some LEGAL action by the studio?'''  I fear so.   So if you're asking my opinion, I would rather wait than risk doing anything to piss off the studios.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:53, 9 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Forum ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Thank you for your reply. Hopefully over time I will be allowed to join the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Cadet Programs ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It is nice to see another young person interested in the military. I am in US Army JROTC and and the Civil Air Patrol cadet program. Is this your first year?--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:18, 25 September 2011 (CDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Super_8&amp;diff=436139</id>
		<title>Super 8</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Super_8&amp;diff=436139"/>
		<updated>2011-07-08T22:33:16Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: Changed soldiers to airmen&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;[[File:Super8.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Super 8'' (2011)]]&lt;br /&gt;
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''Super 8'' is a 2011 science fiction film written and directed by J.J. Abrams (''[[Mission: Impossible III]]'') and produced by [[Steven Spielberg]] that focuses on a group of kids who inadvertently film a massive train crash and discover that the contents on the train may not be from this world.   &lt;br /&gt;
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'''The following weapons were used in the film ''Super 8'':'''&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&amp;lt;br clear=all&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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==M16A1 Rifle==&lt;br /&gt;
The [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1 rifle]] is seen in the hands of the US Air Force personnel that enter the town after the train crash. Jackson Lamb ([[Kyle Chandler]]) takes one and uses it while escaping from the custody of the MPs.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M16A1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M16A1 with 20 round magazine 5.56x45mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:S8 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|USAF airmen enter the town on an APC.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:S8 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Nelec and USAF personnel watch &amp;quot;Operation Walking Distance&amp;quot; begin.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Browning M2HB Heavy Machine Gun==&lt;br /&gt;
A [[Browning M2|Browning M2HB heavy machine gun]] is seen mounted on an M113 APC entering the town. Several others are seen on tanks and APCs in the town during the film's climax.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB on vehicle mount - .50 BMG]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:S8 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An M113 APC with an M2HB and USAF airmen enters the town.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M2A1-7 Flamethrower== &lt;br /&gt;
An [[M2 Flamethrower|M2A1-7 Flamethrower]] is used by a USAF airman to initiate &amp;quot;Operation Walking Distance&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M2 Flamethrower.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M2 Flamethrower - Seven second burn time.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:S8 04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|&amp;quot;Operation Walking Distance&amp;quot; begins.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10==&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10]] is held by Doctor Woodward ([[Glynn Turman]]) after the train crash. It also appears to be the standard sidearm of the city's police department, as several officers have them holstered. Sherrif Pruitt carries one, and it is found on the ground at the site of his disappearance.&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:S&amp;amp;WModel10HB.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10-.38 Special]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:S8 06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Doctor Woodward with his Model 10]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:S8 02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Deputy Sherrif Lamb finds the Model 10 while searching for Pruitt.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==M1911A1==&lt;br /&gt;
Though he never draws it and it is seen only briefly, Deputy Sheriff Jackson Lamb seems to have a [[M1911A1]] or similar single-stack automatic pistol holstered on his belt.&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|none|300px|M1911A1-.45 ACP]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Bolt-Action Rifle==&lt;br /&gt;
A bolt-action rifle, described as a &amp;quot;Sako .30-06, bolt-action&amp;quot; by one of the kids, is used by USAF personnel to try and tag the creature with fictional &amp;quot;tracker rounds&amp;quot;. It appears to have a black synthetic stock, stainless barrel and a modified scope. If the scripted dialog is correct, it may very likely be a medium-action Sako 75 Hunter.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SakoHunter75.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Sako Hunter 75, .30-06.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Movie]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Steven Spielberg]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=The_Thing_(1982)&amp;diff=429338</id>
		<title>The Thing (1982)</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=The_Thing_(1982)&amp;diff=429338"/>
		<updated>2011-06-17T00:53:28Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: Fixed a caption&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Thing-poster.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Movie Poster for ''The Thing (1982)'', which was created by acclaimed movie poster artist Drew Struzan.]]&lt;br /&gt;
''The Thing'' is a 1982 horror film directed by [[John Carpenter]] and reunites him with his ''[[Escape from New York]]'' star [[Kurt Russell]].  The film is a remake of the 1951 classic ''The Thing from Another World'' and a prequel to this film will be released in 2011.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''The following guns were used in the movie ''The Thing'''''&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&amp;lt;br clear=&amp;quot;all&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Heckler &amp;amp; Koch HK93==&lt;br /&gt;
A [[H&amp;amp;K 93|Heckler &amp;amp; Koch HK93]] semi-auto rifle with a scope and a 40 round magazine is used by the Norwegian ([[Kurt Russell]]'s brother-in-law at the time of filming [[Larry Franco]]) to try and kill the infected dog while flying from the helicopter. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:HK93FullStock.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Heckler &amp;amp; Koch HK93-A2 full stocked Rifle - 5.56mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|The Norwegian firing the H&amp;amp;K HK93 from the Helicopter.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing12.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Norwegian with the H&amp;amp;K HK93.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing13.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Norwegian taking aim at the dog.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing14.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|The Norwegian firing the H&amp;amp;K HK93 once on the ground.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing06.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|A close up of the Norwegian firing the H&amp;amp;K HK93.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ithaca 37 shotgun==&lt;br /&gt;
MacReady ([[Kurt Russell]]) carries a [[Ithaca 37]] shotgun several times in the film. At one point Windows ([[Thomas G. Waites]]) manages to grab one before he is subdued by the others.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:IthacaModel37.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Ithaca Model 37 - 12 gauge]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing011.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|MacReady with the Ithaca Model 37 at the Norwegian base]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing010.JPG‎ |thumb|600px|none|Closeup of the muzzle when at the Norwegian base]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing08.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|MacReady right before shooting at The Thing]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Macshotgun.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Mac and his Ithaca 37]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing09.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Closeup of the muzzle of the 37 when shooting at The Thing, which is an obvious blank.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing125.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Windows breaks the glass to the gun safe to get a shotgun, note also the HK93]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing123.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Windows with the Ithaca Model 37 from the gun locker, Garry points his revolver at him]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing124.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Windows holding the Ithaca Model 37]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Colt Detective Special 3rd Gen. ==&lt;br /&gt;
Blair ([[Wilford Brimley]]) retrieves a [[Colt Detective Special|3rd Generation Colt Detective Special]] from his desk drawer.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:ColtDS.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Smith and Wesson Model 36 - .38 special]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing3.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Blair keeps his revolver in a desk drawer.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing4.JPG‎ |thumb|600px|none|Blair takes his gun after reading that there's a 70 percent chance of someone being infected.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing5.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Blair with his revolver]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing6.JPG‎ |thumb|600px|none|Blair fires his revolver]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Colt Trooper MkIII==&lt;br /&gt;
Garry ([[Donald Moffat]]) carries a [[Colt Trooper|Colt Trooper MkIII]] in a holster on his duty belt. Midway through the film MacReady ([[Kurt Russell]]) gets possession of Garry's revolver and carries it with him from then on. &lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Pix997283765.jpg|thumb|none|300px|.357 Magnum with 4&amp;quot; barrel]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing05.JPG‎|thumb|none|600px|Garry fires his Colt Trooper MkIII at the Norwegian]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing07.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Garry shoots and kills the Norwegian (NOTE: Colt triggerguard and shrouded ejector rod housing.)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing122.JPG‎ |thumb|600px|none|Garry points the Trooper MkIII at Windows]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing10.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|MacReady with the Trooper MkIII]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M2A1-7 Flamethrower==&lt;br /&gt;
This flamethrower is used by several members of the team throughout the movie. Palmer uses a different flamethrower.   The &amp;quot;other&amp;quot; flamethrowers appear to be those propane powered models sold currently, used for burning weeds, removing ice from planes and other equipment, the flame on those is very short though, at max usually 7 feet.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M2-2FlameAth.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M2-2 Flamethrower]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing2.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Childs fires the flamethrower]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing15.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|Childs and Palmer holding the flamethrowers]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing9.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|MacReady burns The Thing]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing8.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|MacReady with his M2A1-7 flamethrower]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing18.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|MacReady fires the flamethrower at The Thing, notice the heat wave pinball machine beside him, ironic.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing17.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|MacReady fires the flamethrower]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing11.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|MacReady fires the flamethrower at The Thing]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AN/M14 Incendiary Grenade==&lt;br /&gt;
The Norwegians use several [[AN/M14 incendiary grenade]]s at the start of the film.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AN-M14 Incendiary Grenade.jpg|thumb|none|150px|AN/M14 Incendiary grenade]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:THING04.png|thumb|500px|none|The Norwegian right before throwing the grenade]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing1.JPG‎|thumb|500px|none|The writing on the grenade looks like thermite]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Dynamite==&lt;br /&gt;
MacReady and some other survivors are seen using dynamite bundles to combat the alien. Most notable when MacReady grabs a bundle so nobody will they attack or burn him. The survivors fashion the dynamite to their chests with a improvised holder. (In the second photo under Molotov cocktail below, you can see the survivors are using WW2 Thompson magazine pouches to hold the dynamite) &lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Dynamite_bundle.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|A bundle of dynamite with fuse.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing7.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|MacReady holding a flare and a bundle of dynamite]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Thing321.JPG‎|thumb|600px|none|MacReady holding a bundle of dynamite as an insurance policy]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Macready.jpg|thumb|600px|none|MacReady with his M2 Flamethrower and dynamite in some kind of improvised holder ]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Movie]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Science-Fiction]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Horror]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:John Carpenter]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Shutter_Island&amp;diff=427954</id>
		<title>Shutter Island</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Shutter_Island&amp;diff=427954"/>
		<updated>2011-06-12T00:09:11Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: Marshal was plural instead of singular under the M&amp;amp;P&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;''''The following weapons can be seen in the film ''Shutter Island'':'''&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Shutterislandposter.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Shutter Island'' (2009)]]&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&amp;lt;br clear=&amp;quot;all&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M&amp;amp;P==&lt;br /&gt;
U.S. Marshal Teddy Daniels ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) carries a[[Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10|Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M&amp;amp;P]] revolver as his sidearm. Teddy's gun is a four inch Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M&amp;amp;P, with incorrect non-diamond Magna grips, in the book and movie it has a dent in the barrel where a suspect shot at him.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:S&amp;amp;W-Model-10.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 10 Revolver - .38 Special]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Teddy Daniels with his revolver after picking it up from a table.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-revolver.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Teddy Daniels aiming the revolver.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-revolver2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close up of the revolver in its holster on Dr. Cawley's ([[Ben Kingsley]]) desk, showing the grips on the revolver.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Colt Detective Special==&lt;br /&gt;
U.S. Marshal Chuck Aule carries [[Colt Detective Special]] as his sidearm. It can be identified by the grips when he hands the gun to the guard.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Colt Detective Special.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Colt Detective Special 1st Gen - .38 Special]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI001.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Chuck Aule hands over his revolver to the guards of Shutter Island.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M1903 Springfield==&lt;br /&gt;
Shutter Island prison guards are armed with [[M1903 Springfield]] rifles. Teddy Daniels also is seen with one.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M1903Mark1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Springfield M1903 Mk 1 - .30-06]] &lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Springfield03A3.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M1903A3 Springfield (.30-06)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:ShutterIsland-Springfield.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Two Shutter Island guards with M1903 Springfields.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Shutter Island guards with M1903 Springfields.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI004.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Teddy Daniels searches the lighthouse with his M1903A3 Springfield.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-Springfield.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Teddy Daniels with the M1903A3 Springfield before breaching a room.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Walther PP==&lt;br /&gt;
The Nazi commandant uses a nickel plated [[Walther PP Pistol Series#Walther PP|Walther PP]] to commit suicide in the concentration camp flashback; Teddy Daniels ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) moves it away from the commandant to prolong his death. The filmmakers selected the nickel plated model due to the way it contrasted with the wood floor of the office despite being historically inaccurate that back during WWII nickel plated Walthers did not exist yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:NickelPPK.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Walther PP Pistol in nickel finish - 32 acp.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI007.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The nickel Walther PP next to the wounded Nazi commandant.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-WaltherPPnickel.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Teddy Daniels moves the nickel Walther PP away from the commandant.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M1 Carbine==&lt;br /&gt;
Some of the U.S. Army troops entering the concentration camp in the flashbacks are armed with [[M1 Carbine]]s.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M1-Carbine.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|World War II Era [[M1 Carbine|M1 Carbine]], with Dark Walnut Stock, 'L' peep sight and no bayonet lug - correct for most of WWII, shown with khaki sling and oiler and a period twin magazine pouch for buttstock]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-M1Carbine2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The soldier behind Teddy Daniels ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) carries an M1 Carbine.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M1 Garand==&lt;br /&gt;
In the flashbacks to Dachau concentration camp, Teddy Daniels ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) and some U.S. soldiers are armed with [[M1 Garand]] rifles. &lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M1 Garand.jpg|thumb|none|500px|M1 Garand semiautomatic Rifle with leather M1917 sling - .30-06]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-M1Carbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Teddy Daniels ([[Leonardo DiCaprio]]) with a slung M1 Garand in a flashback.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-M1Garand.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Teddy Daniels and the other soldiers execute the Dachau guards with M1 Garands after one of the Germans attempts to escape.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-M1Garand2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Teddy Daniels with an M1 Garand.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Winchester Model 1897==&lt;br /&gt;
Several guards at Shutter Island are briefly seen with a [[Winchester Model 1897]].&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Winchester1897Plain.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Winchester Model 1897 - 12 gauge.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-W1897.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Shutter Island guard to the left with his Winchester Model 1897 as he watches over the working orderlies.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-W18972.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The same shot above zoomed-in, showing the Shutter Island guard's Winchester Model 1897.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-W18973.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Three Shutter Island guards run with their Winchester Model 1897s at the ready.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Winchester Model 1894==&lt;br /&gt;
The Shutter Island guard at the entrance to Ward C carries a [[Winchester Model 1894]].&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:PheonixentWinchester1894.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Winchester 1894 - .30-30.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:SI-Winchesterrifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Shutter Island guard on the left with his Winchester Model 1894.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Movie]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Horror]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Drama]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Mystery]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Martin Scorsese]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:World_War_II_Online:_Battleground_Europe&amp;diff=414096</id>
		<title>Talk:World War II Online: Battleground Europe</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:World_War_II_Online:_Battleground_Europe&amp;diff=414096"/>
		<updated>2011-04-30T03:03:44Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Can you delete the information about the game's classes, this website is not a game FAQ and should be about the firearms only.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:41, 29 April 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:This ''is'' a wiki. No one's stopping you from fixing a flaw that you find instead of asking others to do it for you.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 21:51, 29 April 2011 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
: I am not asking others to do it I am asking the maker of the page to do it because they should make it right or not make it at all. http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=1621 --[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:03, 29 April 2011 (CDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:World_War_II_Online:_Battleground_Europe&amp;diff=414094</id>
		<title>Talk:World War II Online: Battleground Europe</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:World_War_II_Online:_Battleground_Europe&amp;diff=414094"/>
		<updated>2011-04-30T02:41:26Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: Created page with &amp;quot;Can you delete the information about the game's classes, this website is not a game FAQ and should be about the firearms only.--~~~~&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Can you delete the information about the game's classes, this website is not a game FAQ and should be about the firearms only.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:41, 29 April 2011 (CDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_500&amp;diff=363040</id>
		<title>Talk:Smith &amp; Wesson Model 500</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_500&amp;diff=363040"/>
		<updated>2010-12-05T14:14:39Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== .500 S&amp;amp;W Magnum ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is the Bullet specificly made the this Gun and how much bigger is it compared to say the .357 Magnum.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Basically a .357 mag is pushing a 158gr to a 180gr bullet...but the .500 S&amp;amp;W push anything from a 300gr to a 500gr bullet, and someone is even making a 702gr bullet for it...just crazy big but not as good ballistically as a .460 S&amp;amp;W.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 17:03, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Punisher==&lt;br /&gt;
When did Tom Jane use it? I know Ray Stevenson did in War Zone, but I don't remember it in the first one. -SasquatchJim.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He provided the voice in the videogame. That's the only time he &amp;quot;used&amp;quot; it. [[User:Mercer|Mercer]] 16:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ah, got it. -SJ&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Question ==&lt;br /&gt;
They say the S&amp;amp;W 500 is for hunters who need something powerful enough as a backup weapon in a real emergency... but what kind of emergency would a hunter use the S&amp;amp;W 500 for? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 13:18, 5 December 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the event that your out bow hunting and a bear happens upon you through the thicket. My source? Personal experience. Some would call it overkill, but when a bear attack is a reality and a good possibility in the neck of the woods your hunting in, you want the biggest self defense weapon your money can buy. - Mikey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:A bear or any predator charging at you when you find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 14:14, 5 December 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ruger_P-series_pistol&amp;diff=356068</id>
		<title>Talk:Ruger P-series pistol</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ruger_P-series_pistol&amp;diff=356068"/>
		<updated>2010-11-15T23:53:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Additional Variants==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:True-lies-ruger.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The actual screen-used Ruger KP90 .45 ACP handled and fired by [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]] in ''[[True Lies]]''.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Quality ==&lt;br /&gt;
:I have heard many, many people say that this gun is really crappy and falls apart while firing. My father had a Ruger KP90 that would shoot 3 at a time, which is clearly very unsafe-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 01:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I rented both a Ruger P89 and a Ruger P345 (the polymer framed version of the P90) at a shooting range a few weeks back. The P89 handled very well while the P345 jammed on every third shot. Given that these were rental guns they were probably much more well worn than a similar gun under different circumstances, so issues with the pistols probably have more to do with wear than inherent quality. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have had a ruger p94dc for a couple years now and it only jammed on me once because of bad ammo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I heard a professional firearms instructor say once that the people who take his course (police and civilians alike) bring in all kinds of pistols including Glocks, XD's, Beretta 92 series guns, USPs, and many others, all of which seem to jam or malfunction with more-or-less the same frequency. The one exception he mentioned were centerfire Ruger pistols which he said he has never seen malfunction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==P94==&lt;br /&gt;
Does the P94 model only hold 10 rounds? Most specifications I've read on it seem to say so, however, I wasn't sure if that was because it was using restricted capacity magazines or if was purposely built for that capacity due the Clinton gun ban. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:My P94 holds only ten rounds but it is a 40 cal. I believe the 9mm P94s hold 15.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 23:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tattoo ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm gonna get some tattoos in the next couple o' months, and the first I'm gonna get is the logo of Ruger. I mean I wouldn't normally take a tattoo of some company's logo, but the Ruger logo is so friggin' cool (and iconic ;) ). Of course mine's gonna be without the copyright sign, and I think I'm gonna leave the &amp;quot;R&amp;quot; out. -- [[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:32, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:RugerMkIIIBlued.jpg|thumb|left|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Ruger-logo.JPG|thumb|left|300px|]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ruger_P-series_pistol&amp;diff=356063</id>
		<title>Talk:Ruger P-series pistol</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ruger_P-series_pistol&amp;diff=356063"/>
		<updated>2010-11-15T23:52:23Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Additional Variants==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:True-lies-ruger.jpg|thumb|none|450px|The actual screen-used Ruger KP90 .45 ACP handled and fired by [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]] in ''[[True Lies]]''.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Quality ==&lt;br /&gt;
:I have heard many, many people say that this gun is really crappy and falls apart while firing. My father had a Ruger KP90 that would shoot 3 at a time, which is clearly very unsafe-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 01:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I rented both a Ruger P89 and a Ruger P345 (the polymer framed version of the P90) at a shooting range a few weeks back. The P89 handled very well while the P345 jammed on every third shot. Given that these were rental guns they were probably much more well worn than a similar gun under different circumstances, so issues with the pistols probably have more to do with wear than inherent quality. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have had a ruger p94dc for a couple years now and it only jammed on me once because of bad ammo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I heard a professional firearms instructor say once that the people who take his course (police and civilians alike) bring in all kinds of pistols including Glocks, XD's, Beretta 92 series guns, USPs, and many others, all of which seem to jam or malfunction with more-or-less the same frequency. The one exception he mentioned were centerfire Ruger pistols which he said he has never seen malfunction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==P94==&lt;br /&gt;
Does the P94 model only hold 10 rounds? Most specifications I've read on it seem to say so, however, I wasn't sure if that was because it was using restricted capacity magazines or if was purposely built for that capacity due the Clinton gun ban. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:My P94 holds only ten rounds but it is a 40 cal. I believe the 9mm P94s holds 15.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 23:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tattoo ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm gonna get some tattoos in the next couple o' months, and the first I'm gonna get is the logo of Ruger. I mean I wouldn't normally take a tattoo of some company's logo, but the Ruger logo is so friggin' cool (and iconic ;) ). Of course mine's gonna be without the copyright sign, and I think I'm gonna leave the &amp;quot;R&amp;quot; out. -- [[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 21:32, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:RugerMkIIIBlued.jpg|thumb|left|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Ruger-logo.JPG|thumb|left|300px|]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=351029</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=351029"/>
		<updated>2010-10-31T16:48:28Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my name but i will let you know that i live in Wyoming and am in high school if that makes any difference.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Gamer&amp;diff=350975</id>
		<title>Talk:Gamer</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Gamer&amp;diff=350975"/>
		<updated>2010-10-31T12:18:44Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;These are the only pics I could get from the trailer. Some guns were just too damn blurry. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*If it's not a big issue, I replaced your pictures with some better quality ones from the IGN trailer. [[User: Markit|Markit]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I was schooled. Bravo Markit. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::You guys did a stellar job of screencapping the publicly available trailers! :)  I will put a notice on the main movie page, just so that people know that you did a great job without bootlegging.  Great job, gentlemen! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:51, 27 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me or did it look like the there guns were firing &amp;quot;blaster bolts&amp;quot;. or it could just tracer rounds that look like &amp;quot;blaster bolts&amp;quot; Rex095&lt;br /&gt;
:What the fuck is a blaster bolt?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Ever seen Star Wars? The little coherent flashes of light that come out blasters (the guns in Star Wars) are called 'bolts.'[[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 07:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some of the guns look like there were shoot bolts of light. just like in the future seen in the old terminator movies. or it could just be tracer rounds Rex095&lt;br /&gt;
:That is quite ridiculous.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::But that is good since this movie was made by the same guys that made Crank and the more ridiculous Crank gets, the better it gets.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My current pet theory on the 'bolts of light' is that they are literally &amp;quot;in-game&amp;quot; special effects. It occurred to me while playing Modern Warfare (which is the same style of game that &amp;quot;Slayers&amp;quot; is based on) that everyone seemed to be using tracer rounds - I could see where my own and enemy fire was headed if I were paying attention. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 07:45, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an UMP45 seen around 2:30, and the flamethrower is a Russian LPO 50.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Pistols ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are definitely at least 2 pistols in this movie. One is at the beginning, during the 27th Game, around the 3 minute mark. and the second is later in the movie where Kable is forced to kill his friend.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The revolver when he escapes with his wife - that's definitely a Mateba, though some (presumably cosmetic) bits are added under the barrel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is a Mateba, it was originally modified for the movie &amp;quot;Serenity&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
David.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Someone look in the image where the guy has a handheld M1919. There's a dude in the background with what looks like a full-sized Glock (Most likely a 17) --GamerfreakB7 Destroying the world, one hippie at a time. 02:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Knives == &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any idea what Hackman's knife was? It was a fixed plade tanto with what looked to be green G10 scales&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's some kind of combat knife that I have seen before, but can't remember the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's a S&amp;amp;W Homeland Security knife.&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.knivesplus.com/smith-and-wesson-knife-sw-cksur4.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cobray 37mm on G36 (moved from main page) ==&lt;br /&gt;
Firing the M203 probably will be uncomfortable since these two weapons were never designed to work together. why couldn't they just use a AG36 grenade launcher which was designed to attach to the G36 family&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Most likely because the guy who thought of the idea played COD4 and had the 203 for his G36C [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::He could have just liked the 203 more. The AG36 is kind of fugly. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:23, 14 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Realistically, they wanted a grenade launcher and the armorer only had Cobrays [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
:That's most likely. But it's also worth mentioning that the AG36 isn't compatible with the G36C. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:22, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M4 on DVD cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:gamerdvd.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]&lt;br /&gt;
i thought i would bring this up.in the UK (dont know if anyware else has this cover) it incorrectly labels the G36 as an M4. the M4 is in the top right hand corner and thisis the UK cover and not a made-up one. they dont look anything alike. you could no way get these mixed up and the fact this movie is called gamer and has got a lot of inspiration from video games (most likly modern warfare) i dont know how someone could get this mixed up. --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:49, 14 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's not necessarily pointing at the the G36, The nearest line that goes to the G36 is a distance marker to the next save point. But the M4 still doesn't make sense...--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 13:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==One thing==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
If you want a good laugh watch the special features. The &amp;quot;armorer&amp;quot; on there apparently has &amp;quot;the only two Saiga 12's in the world,&amp;quot; and he &amp;quot;handmade&amp;quot; them. I realize they are customized, but they were not so heavily customized that you cannot recognize them, and he definitely didn't &amp;quot;make&amp;quot; them. Someone watch this and comment, i don't know what the hell he means...--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 06:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:O RLY? He might want to give my town's little Mom n' Pop gun store a call and ask them about the three Saiga's they just got in. He would probably find it... enlightening.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 01:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, I'd probably be enlightened too.--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 13:24, 6 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See, this is why I say that we should all become armorers for Hollywood films. It'd be about damn time for the armorers to actually know what the heck they're talking about. I mean, first Hitman, and now this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:21, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, in the article about the Saiga-12, the author indicates that this is probably the same weapon Crews used in The Expendables. It is not. That was an Atchisson AA-12 auto shotgun, which, incidentally, is the same weapon used by Adrian Brody in Predators. [[User:Bill Coffin|Bill Coffin]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the Tanker scene in the beginning  of the film, Terry Crews does indeed use a Saiga-12.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M1919==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gamer3001.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
This M1919 looks funny. Could it be an AN/M2?&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like one to me. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Accessories==&lt;br /&gt;
Nearly every Slayers weapon has a safety mechanism that has a green light when they start &amp;quot;playing&amp;quot; the game.&lt;br /&gt;
For a while now I can't figure out what this is. Does anyone know if this mount is an actual laser mount or something fabricated for the movie? --[[User:gatta-no|gatta-no]] 6:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Missing Guns==&lt;br /&gt;
:Before the 30th Battle when the Slayers are getting prepared for battle, I believe one was inserting a magazine into a rifle that looked like the Kel Tec SU-16. And during either the 29th or 30th battle one slayer had a Mossberg 500 bullpup. --[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 03:27, 30 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Gamer&amp;diff=350974</id>
		<title>Talk:Gamer</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Gamer&amp;diff=350974"/>
		<updated>2010-10-31T12:18:35Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;These are the only pics I could get from the trailer. Some guns were just too damn blurry. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*If it's not a big issue, I replaced your pictures with some better quality ones from the IGN trailer. [[User: Markit|Markit]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I was schooled. Bravo Markit. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::You guys did a stellar job of screencapping the publicly available trailers! :)  I will put a notice on the main movie page, just so that people know that you did a great job without bootlegging.  Great job, gentlemen! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:51, 27 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me or did it look like the there guns were firing &amp;quot;blaster bolts&amp;quot;. or it could just tracer rounds that look like &amp;quot;blaster bolts&amp;quot; Rex095&lt;br /&gt;
:What the fuck is a blaster bolt?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Ever seen Star Wars? The little coherent flashes of light that come out blasters (the guns in Star Wars) are called 'bolts.'[[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 07:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some of the guns look like there were shoot bolts of light. just like in the future seen in the old terminator movies. or it could just be tracer rounds Rex095&lt;br /&gt;
:That is quite ridiculous.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::But that is good since this movie was made by the same guys that made Crank and the more ridiculous Crank gets, the better it gets.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My current pet theory on the 'bolts of light' is that they are literally &amp;quot;in-game&amp;quot; special effects. It occurred to me while playing Modern Warfare (which is the same style of game that &amp;quot;Slayers&amp;quot; is based on) that everyone seemed to be using tracer rounds - I could see where my own and enemy fire was headed if I were paying attention. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 07:45, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an UMP45 seen around 2:30, and the flamethrower is a Russian LPO 50.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Pistols ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are definitely at least 2 pistols in this movie. One is at the beginning, during the 27th Game, around the 3 minute mark. and the second is later in the movie where Kable is forced to kill his friend.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The revolver when he escapes with his wife - that's definitely a Mateba, though some (presumably cosmetic) bits are added under the barrel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is a Mateba, it was originally modified for the movie &amp;quot;Serenity&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
David.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Someone look in the image where the guy has a handheld M1919. There's a dude in the background with what looks like a full-sized Glock (Most likely a 17) --GamerfreakB7 Destroying the world, one hippie at a time. 02:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Knives == &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any idea what Hackman's knife was? It was a fixed plade tanto with what looked to be green G10 scales&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's some kind of combat knife that I have seen before, but can't remember the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's a S&amp;amp;W Homeland Security knife.&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.knivesplus.com/smith-and-wesson-knife-sw-cksur4.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cobray 37mm on G36 (moved from main page) ==&lt;br /&gt;
Firing the M203 probably will be uncomfortable since these two weapons were never designed to work together. why couldn't they just use a AG36 grenade launcher which was designed to attach to the G36 family&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Most likely because the guy who thought of the idea played COD4 and had the 203 for his G36C [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::He could have just liked the 203 more. The AG36 is kind of fugly. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:23, 14 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Realistically, they wanted a grenade launcher and the armorer only had Cobrays [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
:That's most likely. But it's also worth mentioning that the AG36 isn't compatible with the G36C. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:22, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M4 on DVD cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:gamerdvd.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]&lt;br /&gt;
i thought i would bring this up.in the UK (dont know if anyware else has this cover) it incorrectly labels the G36 as an M4. the M4 is in the top right hand corner and thisis the UK cover and not a made-up one. they dont look anything alike. you could no way get these mixed up and the fact this movie is called gamer and has got a lot of inspiration from video games (most likly modern warfare) i dont know how someone could get this mixed up. --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:49, 14 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's not necessarily pointing at the the G36, The nearest line that goes to the G36 is a distance marker to the next save point. But the M4 still doesn't make sense...--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 13:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==One thing==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
If you want a good laugh watch the special features. The &amp;quot;armorer&amp;quot; on there apparently has &amp;quot;the only two Saiga 12's in the world,&amp;quot; and he &amp;quot;handmade&amp;quot; them. I realize they are customized, but they were not so heavily customized that you cannot recognize them, and he definitely didn't &amp;quot;make&amp;quot; them. Someone watch this and comment, i don't know what the hell he means...--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 06:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:O RLY? He might want to give my town's little Mom n' Pop gun store a call and ask them about the three Saiga's they just got in. He would probably find it... enlightening.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 01:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, I'd probably be enlightened too.--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 13:24, 6 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See, this is why I say that we should all become armorers for Hollywood films. It'd be about damn time for the armorers to actually know what the heck they're talking about. I mean, first Hitman, and now this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:21, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, in the article about the Saiga-12, the author indicates that this is probably the same weapon Crews used in The Expendables. It is not. That was an Atchisson AA-12 auto shotgun, which, incidentally, is the same weapon used by Adrian Brody in Predators. [[User:Bill Coffin|Bill Coffin]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the Tanker scene in the beginning  of the film, Terry Crews does indeed use a Saiga-12.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M1919==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gamer3001.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
This M1919 looks funny. Could it be an AN/M2?&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like one to me. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Accessories==&lt;br /&gt;
Nearly every Slayers weapon has a safety mechanism that has a green light when they start &amp;quot;playing&amp;quot; the game.&lt;br /&gt;
For a while now I can't figure out what this is. Does anyone know if this mount is an actual laser mount or something fabricated for the movie? --[[User:gatta-no|gatta-no]] 6:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Missing Guns==&lt;br /&gt;
:Before the 30th Battle when the Slayers are getting prepared for battle, I believe one was inserting a magazine into a rifle that looked like the Kel Tec SU-16. And during either the 29th or 30th battle one slayer had a Mosssberg 500 bullpup. --[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 03:27, 30 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=350401</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=350401"/>
		<updated>2010-10-30T03:31:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my age or name  but i will let you know that i live in Wyoming if that makes any difference.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Some guns that I own==&lt;br /&gt;
:Ruger P94DC&lt;br /&gt;
:Russian SKS&lt;br /&gt;
:Colt Police Positive 32 S&amp;amp;W Long&lt;br /&gt;
:Iver Johnson revolver 38 S&amp;amp;W&lt;br /&gt;
:Galesi 22lr&lt;br /&gt;
:(2) Remington 870 both 12 gauge&lt;br /&gt;
:(2) Ruger 10/22&lt;br /&gt;
:Ruger m77 30-06&lt;br /&gt;
:Savage Predator .243&lt;br /&gt;
:Winchester Model 1200 20 gauge&lt;br /&gt;
:Stevens single-shot .410 shotgun (the first gun my dad bought me when I was 9 or 10&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:and more that i will add when i have the time&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Guns I shot at a Machine Gun Shoot ==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, I shot these at my local Northern Rockies Machine Gun and Cannon Shoot , I shoot new ones every year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:a full auto AR-15 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
:M16A1&lt;br /&gt;
:Russian PPSH&lt;br /&gt;
:Browning m1919 .30 cal machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
:Browning M2 50 caliber machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
:Uzi 9mm&lt;br /&gt;
:M79 grenade launcher (smoke rounds not HE rounds)&lt;br /&gt;
:M2 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
:AR-50 .50 cal sniper rifle&lt;br /&gt;
:M1 Garand&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=350400</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=350400"/>
		<updated>2010-10-30T03:31:29Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my age or name  but i will let you know that i live in Wyoming if that makes any difference.&lt;br /&gt;
Guns that I own: I own about 20 or so guns, mostly 12 and 20 gauge shotguns. I am am also an avid hunter&lt;br /&gt;
== Some guns that I own==&lt;br /&gt;
:Ruger P94DC&lt;br /&gt;
:Russian SKS&lt;br /&gt;
:Colt Police Positive 32 S&amp;amp;W Long&lt;br /&gt;
:Iver Johnson revolver 38 S&amp;amp;W&lt;br /&gt;
:Galesi 22lr&lt;br /&gt;
:(2) Remington 870 both 12 gauge&lt;br /&gt;
:(2) Ruger 10/22&lt;br /&gt;
:Ruger m77 30-06&lt;br /&gt;
:Savage Predator .243&lt;br /&gt;
:Winchester Model 1200 20 gauge&lt;br /&gt;
:Stevens single-shot .410 shotgun (the first gun my dad bought me when I was 9 or 10&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:and more that i will add when i have the time&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Guns I shot at a Machine Gun Shoot ==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, I shot these at my local Northern Rockies Machine Gun and Cannon Shoot , I shoot new ones every year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:a full auto AR-15 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
:M16A1&lt;br /&gt;
:Russian PPSH&lt;br /&gt;
:Browning m1919 .30 cal machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
:Browning M2 50 caliber machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
:Uzi 9mm&lt;br /&gt;
:M79 grenade launcher (smoke rounds not HE rounds)&lt;br /&gt;
:M2 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
:AR-50 .50 cal sniper rifle&lt;br /&gt;
:M1 Garand&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=350399</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=350399"/>
		<updated>2010-10-30T03:29:20Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my age, name, or location but i will let you know that i do own firearms and i am not some dumb kid who plays video games with too much time on his hands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guns that I own: I own about 20 or so guns, mostly 12 and 20 gauge shotguns and 22's and some hunting rifles in 30-06 and .243, &lt;br /&gt;
== Some guns that I own==&lt;br /&gt;
:Ruger P94DC&lt;br /&gt;
:Russian SKS&lt;br /&gt;
:Colt Police Positive 32 S&amp;amp;W Long&lt;br /&gt;
:Iver Johnson revolver 38 S&amp;amp;W&lt;br /&gt;
:Galesi 22lr&lt;br /&gt;
:(2) Remington 870 both 12 gauge&lt;br /&gt;
:(2) Ruger 10/22&lt;br /&gt;
:Ruger m77 30-06&lt;br /&gt;
:Savage Predator .243&lt;br /&gt;
:Winchester Model 1200 20 gauge&lt;br /&gt;
:Stevens single-shot .410 shotgun (the first gun my dad bought me when I was 9 or 10&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:and more that i will add when i have the time&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Guns I shot at a Machine Gun Shoot ==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, I shot these at my local Northern Rockies Machine Gun and Cannon Shoot , I shoot new ones every year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:a full auto AR-15 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
:M16A1&lt;br /&gt;
:Russian PPSH&lt;br /&gt;
:Browning m1919 .30 cal machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
:Browning M2 50 caliber machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
:Uzi 9mm&lt;br /&gt;
:M79 grenade launcher (smoke rounds not HE rounds)&lt;br /&gt;
:M2 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
:AR-50 .50 cal sniper rifle&lt;br /&gt;
:M1 Garand&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Gamer&amp;diff=350398</id>
		<title>Talk:Gamer</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Gamer&amp;diff=350398"/>
		<updated>2010-10-30T03:28:27Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;These are the only pics I could get from the trailer. Some guns were just too damn blurry. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*If it's not a big issue, I replaced your pictures with some better quality ones from the IGN trailer. [[User: Markit|Markit]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I was schooled. Bravo Markit. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::You guys did a stellar job of screencapping the publicly available trailers! :)  I will put a notice on the main movie page, just so that people know that you did a great job without bootlegging.  Great job, gentlemen! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:51, 27 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me or did it look like the there guns were firing &amp;quot;blaster bolts&amp;quot;. or it could just tracer rounds that look like &amp;quot;blaster bolts&amp;quot; Rex095&lt;br /&gt;
:What the fuck is a blaster bolt?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Ever seen Star Wars? The little coherent flashes of light that come out blasters (the guns in Star Wars) are called 'bolts.'[[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 07:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some of the guns look like there were shoot bolts of light. just like in the future seen in the old terminator movies. or it could just be tracer rounds Rex095&lt;br /&gt;
:That is quite ridiculous.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::But that is good since this movie was made by the same guys that made Crank and the more ridiculous Crank gets, the better it gets.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My current pet theory on the 'bolts of light' is that they are literally &amp;quot;in-game&amp;quot; special effects. It occurred to me while playing Modern Warfare (which is the same style of game that &amp;quot;Slayers&amp;quot; is based on) that everyone seemed to be using tracer rounds - I could see where my own and enemy fire was headed if I were paying attention. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 07:45, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an UMP45 seen around 2:30, and the flamethrower is a Russian LPO 50.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Pistols ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are definitely at least 2 pistols in this movie. One is at the beginning, during the 27th Game, around the 3 minute mark. and the second is later in the movie where Kable is forced to kill his friend.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The revolver when he escapes with his wife - that's definitely a Mateba, though some (presumably cosmetic) bits are added under the barrel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is a Mateba, it was originally modified for the movie &amp;quot;Serenity&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
David.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Someone look in the image where the guy has a handheld M1919. There's a dude in the background with what looks like a full-sized Glock (Most likely a 17) --GamerfreakB7 Destroying the world, one hippie at a time. 02:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Knives == &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any idea what Hackman's knife was? It was a fixed plade tanto with what looked to be green G10 scales&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's some kind of combat knife that I have seen before, but can't remember the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's a S&amp;amp;W Homeland Security knife.&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.knivesplus.com/smith-and-wesson-knife-sw-cksur4.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cobray 37mm on G36 (moved from main page) ==&lt;br /&gt;
Firing the M203 probably will be uncomfortable since these two weapons were never designed to work together. why couldn't they just use a AG36 grenade launcher which was designed to attach to the G36 family&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Most likely because the guy who thought of the idea played COD4 and had the 203 for his G36C [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::He could have just liked the 203 more. The AG36 is kind of fugly. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:23, 14 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Realistically, they wanted a grenade launcher and the armorer only had Cobrays [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
:That's most likely. But it's also worth mentioning that the AG36 isn't compatible with the G36C. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:22, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M4 on DVD cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:gamerdvd.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]&lt;br /&gt;
i thought i would bring this up.in the UK (dont know if anyware else has this cover) it incorrectly labels the G36 as an M4. the M4 is in the top right hand corner and thisis the UK cover and not a made-up one. they dont look anything alike. you could no way get these mixed up and the fact this movie is called gamer and has got a lot of inspiration from video games (most likly modern warfare) i dont know how someone could get this mixed up. --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:49, 14 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's not necessarily pointing at the the G36, The nearest line that goes to the G36 is a distance marker to the next save point. But the M4 still doesn't make sense...--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 13:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==One thing==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
If you want a good laugh watch the special features. The &amp;quot;armorer&amp;quot; on there apparently has &amp;quot;the only two Saiga 12's in the world,&amp;quot; and he &amp;quot;handmade&amp;quot; them. I realize they are customized, but they were not so heavily customized that you cannot recognize them, and he definitely didn't &amp;quot;make&amp;quot; them. Someone watch this and comment, i don't know what the hell he means...--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 06:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:O RLY? He might want to give my town's little Mom n' Pop gun store a call and ask them about the three Saiga's they just got in. He would probably find it... enlightening.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 01:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, I'd probably be enlightened too.--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 13:24, 6 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See, this is why I say that we should all become armorers for Hollywood films. It'd be about damn time for the armorers to actually know what the heck they're talking about. I mean, first Hitman, and now this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:21, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, in the article about the Saiga-12, the author indicates that this is probably the same weapon Crews used in The Expendables. It is not. That was an Atchisson AA-12 auto shotgun, which, incidentally, is the same weapon used by Adrian Brody in Predators. [[User:Bill Coffin|Bill Coffin]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the Tanker scene in the beginning  of the film, Terry Crews does indeed use a Saiga-12.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M1919==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gamer3001.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
This M1919 looks funny. Could it be an AN/M2?&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like one to me. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Accessories==&lt;br /&gt;
Nearly every Slayers weapon has a safety mechanism that has a green light when they start &amp;quot;playing&amp;quot; the game.&lt;br /&gt;
For a while now I can't figure out what this is. Does anyone know if this mount is an actual laser mount or something fabricated for the movie? --[[User:gatta-no|gatta-no]] 6:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==SU 16==&lt;br /&gt;
:Before the 30th Battle when the Slayers are getting prepared for battle, I believe one was inserting a magazine into a rifle that looked like the Kel Tec SU-16. Can anyone confirm this?--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 03:27, 30 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Gamer&amp;diff=350397</id>
		<title>Talk:Gamer</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Gamer&amp;diff=350397"/>
		<updated>2010-10-30T03:28:07Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;These are the only pics I could get from the trailer. Some guns were just too damn blurry. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*If it's not a big issue, I replaced your pictures with some better quality ones from the IGN trailer. [[User: Markit|Markit]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I was schooled. Bravo Markit. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::You guys did a stellar job of screencapping the publicly available trailers! :)  I will put a notice on the main movie page, just so that people know that you did a great job without bootlegging.  Great job, gentlemen! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:51, 27 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me or did it look like the there guns were firing &amp;quot;blaster bolts&amp;quot;. or it could just tracer rounds that look like &amp;quot;blaster bolts&amp;quot; Rex095&lt;br /&gt;
:What the fuck is a blaster bolt?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Ever seen Star Wars? The little coherent flashes of light that come out blasters (the guns in Star Wars) are called 'bolts.'[[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 07:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some of the guns look like there were shoot bolts of light. just like in the future seen in the old terminator movies. or it could just be tracer rounds Rex095&lt;br /&gt;
:That is quite ridiculous.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::But that is good since this movie was made by the same guys that made Crank and the more ridiculous Crank gets, the better it gets.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My current pet theory on the 'bolts of light' is that they are literally &amp;quot;in-game&amp;quot; special effects. It occurred to me while playing Modern Warfare (which is the same style of game that &amp;quot;Slayers&amp;quot; is based on) that everyone seemed to be using tracer rounds - I could see where my own and enemy fire was headed if I were paying attention. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 07:45, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an UMP45 seen around 2:30, and the flamethrower is a Russian LPO 50.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Pistols ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are definitely at least 2 pistols in this movie. One is at the beginning, during the 27th Game, around the 3 minute mark. and the second is later in the movie where Kable is forced to kill his friend.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The revolver when he escapes with his wife - that's definitely a Mateba, though some (presumably cosmetic) bits are added under the barrel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is a Mateba, it was originally modified for the movie &amp;quot;Serenity&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
David.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Someone look in the image where the guy has a handheld M1919. There's a dude in the background with what looks like a full-sized Glock (Most likely a 17) --GamerfreakB7 Destroying the world, one hippie at a time. 02:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Knives == &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any idea what Hackman's knife was? It was a fixed plade tanto with what looked to be green G10 scales&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's some kind of combat knife that I have seen before, but can't remember the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's a S&amp;amp;W Homeland Security knife.&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.knivesplus.com/smith-and-wesson-knife-sw-cksur4.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cobray 37mm on G36 (moved from main page) ==&lt;br /&gt;
Firing the M203 probably will be uncomfortable since these two weapons were never designed to work together. why couldn't they just use a AG36 grenade launcher which was designed to attach to the G36 family&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Most likely because the guy who thought of the idea played COD4 and had the 203 for his G36C [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::He could have just liked the 203 more. The AG36 is kind of fugly. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:23, 14 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Realistically, they wanted a grenade launcher and the armorer only had Cobrays [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
:That's most likely. But it's also worth mentioning that the AG36 isn't compatible with the G36C. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:22, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M4 on DVD cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:gamerdvd.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]&lt;br /&gt;
i thought i would bring this up.in the UK (dont know if anyware else has this cover) it incorrectly labels the G36 as an M4. the M4 is in the top right hand corner and thisis the UK cover and not a made-up one. they dont look anything alike. you could no way get these mixed up and the fact this movie is called gamer and has got a lot of inspiration from video games (most likly modern warfare) i dont know how someone could get this mixed up. --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:49, 14 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's not necessarily pointing at the the G36, The nearest line that goes to the G36 is a distance marker to the next save point. But the M4 still doesn't make sense...--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 13:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==One thing==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
If you want a good laugh watch the special features. The &amp;quot;armorer&amp;quot; on there apparently has &amp;quot;the only two Saiga 12's in the world,&amp;quot; and he &amp;quot;handmade&amp;quot; them. I realize they are customized, but they were not so heavily customized that you cannot recognize them, and he definitely didn't &amp;quot;make&amp;quot; them. Someone watch this and comment, i don't know what the hell he means...--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 06:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:O RLY? He might want to give my town's little Mom n' Pop gun store a call and ask them about the three Saiga's they just got in. He would probably find it... enlightening.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 01:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, I'd probably be enlightened too.--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 13:24, 6 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See, this is why I say that we should all become armorers for Hollywood films. It'd be about damn time for the armorers to actually know what the heck they're talking about. I mean, first Hitman, and now this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:21, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, in the article about the Saiga-12, the author indicates that this is probably the same weapon Crews used in The Expendables. It is not. That was an Atchisson AA-12 auto shotgun, which, incidentally, is the same weapon used by Adrian Brody in Predators. [[User:Bill Coffin|Bill Coffin]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the Tanker scene in the beginning  of the film, Terry Crews does indeed use a Saiga-12.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M1919==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gamer3001.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
This M1919 looks funny. Could it be an AN/M2?&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like one to me. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Accessories==&lt;br /&gt;
Nearly every Slayers weapon has a safety mechanism that has a green light when they start &amp;quot;playing&amp;quot; the game.&lt;br /&gt;
For a while now I can't figure out what this is. Does anyone know if this mount is an actual laser mount or something fabricated for the movie? --[[User:gatta-no|gatta-no]] 6:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==SU 16==&lt;br /&gt;
 Before the 30th Battle when the Slayers are getting prepared for battle, I believe one was inserting a magazine into a rifle that looked like the Kel Tec SU-16. Can anyone confirm this?--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 03:27, 30 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Gamer&amp;diff=350396</id>
		<title>Talk:Gamer</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Gamer&amp;diff=350396"/>
		<updated>2010-10-30T03:27:32Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;These are the only pics I could get from the trailer. Some guns were just too damn blurry. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*If it's not a big issue, I replaced your pictures with some better quality ones from the IGN trailer. [[User: Markit|Markit]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I was schooled. Bravo Markit. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::You guys did a stellar job of screencapping the publicly available trailers! :)  I will put a notice on the main movie page, just so that people know that you did a great job without bootlegging.  Great job, gentlemen! [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 08:51, 27 October 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me or did it look like the there guns were firing &amp;quot;blaster bolts&amp;quot;. or it could just tracer rounds that look like &amp;quot;blaster bolts&amp;quot; Rex095&lt;br /&gt;
:What the fuck is a blaster bolt?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Ever seen Star Wars? The little coherent flashes of light that come out blasters (the guns in Star Wars) are called 'bolts.'[[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 07:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some of the guns look like there were shoot bolts of light. just like in the future seen in the old terminator movies. or it could just be tracer rounds Rex095&lt;br /&gt;
:That is quite ridiculous.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:11, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::But that is good since this movie was made by the same guys that made Crank and the more ridiculous Crank gets, the better it gets.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My current pet theory on the 'bolts of light' is that they are literally &amp;quot;in-game&amp;quot; special effects. It occurred to me while playing Modern Warfare (which is the same style of game that &amp;quot;Slayers&amp;quot; is based on) that everyone seemed to be using tracer rounds - I could see where my own and enemy fire was headed if I were paying attention. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 07:45, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an UMP45 seen around 2:30, and the flamethrower is a Russian LPO 50.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Pistols ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are definitely at least 2 pistols in this movie. One is at the beginning, during the 27th Game, around the 3 minute mark. and the second is later in the movie where Kable is forced to kill his friend.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The revolver when he escapes with his wife - that's definitely a Mateba, though some (presumably cosmetic) bits are added under the barrel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is a Mateba, it was originally modified for the movie &amp;quot;Serenity&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
David.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Someone look in the image where the guy has a handheld M1919. There's a dude in the background with what looks like a full-sized Glock (Most likely a 17) --GamerfreakB7 Destroying the world, one hippie at a time. 02:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Knives == &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any idea what Hackman's knife was? It was a fixed plade tanto with what looked to be green G10 scales&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's some kind of combat knife that I have seen before, but can't remember the name [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's a S&amp;amp;W Homeland Security knife.&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.knivesplus.com/smith-and-wesson-knife-sw-cksur4.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cobray 37mm on G36 (moved from main page) ==&lt;br /&gt;
Firing the M203 probably will be uncomfortable since these two weapons were never designed to work together. why couldn't they just use a AG36 grenade launcher which was designed to attach to the G36 family&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Most likely because the guy who thought of the idea played COD4 and had the 203 for his G36C [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::He could have just liked the 203 more. The AG36 is kind of fugly. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:23, 14 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Realistically, they wanted a grenade launcher and the armorer only had Cobrays [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]&lt;br /&gt;
:That's most likely. But it's also worth mentioning that the AG36 isn't compatible with the G36C. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:22, 23 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M4 on DVD cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:gamerdvd.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]&lt;br /&gt;
i thought i would bring this up.in the UK (dont know if anyware else has this cover) it incorrectly labels the G36 as an M4. the M4 is in the top right hand corner and thisis the UK cover and not a made-up one. they dont look anything alike. you could no way get these mixed up and the fact this movie is called gamer and has got a lot of inspiration from video games (most likly modern warfare) i dont know how someone could get this mixed up. --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:49, 14 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's not necessarily pointing at the the G36, The nearest line that goes to the G36 is a distance marker to the next save point. But the M4 still doesn't make sense...--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 13:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==One thing==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
If you want a good laugh watch the special features. The &amp;quot;armorer&amp;quot; on there apparently has &amp;quot;the only two Saiga 12's in the world,&amp;quot; and he &amp;quot;handmade&amp;quot; them. I realize they are customized, but they were not so heavily customized that you cannot recognize them, and he definitely didn't &amp;quot;make&amp;quot; them. Someone watch this and comment, i don't know what the hell he means...--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 06:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:O RLY? He might want to give my town's little Mom n' Pop gun store a call and ask them about the three Saiga's they just got in. He would probably find it... enlightening.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 01:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, I'd probably be enlightened too.--[[User:FirearmFanatic|FirearmFanatic]] 13:24, 6 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See, this is why I say that we should all become armorers for Hollywood films. It'd be about damn time for the armorers to actually know what the heck they're talking about. I mean, first Hitman, and now this. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:21, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, in the article about the Saiga-12, the author indicates that this is probably the same weapon Crews used in The Expendables. It is not. That was an Atchisson AA-12 auto shotgun, which, incidentally, is the same weapon used by Adrian Brody in Predators. [[User:Bill Coffin|Bill Coffin]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the Tanker scene in the beginning  of the film, Terry Crews does indeed use a Saiga-12.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 02:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M1919==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Gamer3001.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
This M1919 looks funny. Could it be an AN/M2?&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like one to me. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Accessories==&lt;br /&gt;
Nearly every Slayers weapon has a safety mechanism that has a green light when they start &amp;quot;playing&amp;quot; the game.&lt;br /&gt;
For a while now I can't figure out what this is. Does anyone know if this mount is an actual laser mount or something fabricated for the movie? --[[User:gatta-no|gatta-no]] 6:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==SU 16==&lt;br /&gt;
: Before the 30th Battle when the Slayers are getting prepared for battle, I believe one was inserting a Magazine into a rifle that looked like the Kel Tec SU-16. CAn anyone confirm this?--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 03:27, 30 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Warejaws&amp;diff=340721</id>
		<title>User talk:Warejaws</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Warejaws&amp;diff=340721"/>
		<updated>2010-10-11T23:51:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Re: Nothing But Trouble==&lt;br /&gt;
Appreciate some of your posts on there, I've given ya a special mention on the 'Talk' section for that page. Anything that improves what I could have only hoped to be a decently acceptable first page. I was surprised to not see it on the site though, I enjoy the film quite a bit.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Screencapping ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just wondering how you are screencapping your movies?   Are you just using a screengrab off your monitor?  You may want to use VLC player to get better results.   Also, don't forget to cut off the black bars and make sure your aspect ratio is set to 16:9 widescreen.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 10:51, 3 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hmmm... you're right. I'm gonna use the VLC player from now on... and cut the black bars properly.. [[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 12:31, 3 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==BTW: good job on the Already dead page, but ...==&lt;br /&gt;
In the IMFDB rules, you don't hyperlink the gun titles, but put it in the body of the description.  Just a reminder.  Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==BTW, PNGS are not allowed==&lt;br /&gt;
BTW, on Feast all the screenshots uploaded were PNG files.  Sorry, but only Jpegs are allowed (check the rules).  PNG images will be deleted/replaced.  If you have any difficulty converting them, please let us know.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 09:07, 7 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Hi==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 20:42, 3 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry but i am not Finnish. I am from Wyoming, USA and am doing fine. I have pretty limited experience with handguns but i like most Rugers, Berettas, and i sort of like glocks. My favorite handgun round is either 9mm or .40.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 20:43, 4 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have had a very limited experience with 1911s. I believe i have only shot one once. I would like to own one someday, if only they were not so darn expensive.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Warejaws&amp;diff=337538</id>
		<title>User talk:Warejaws</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Warejaws&amp;diff=337538"/>
		<updated>2010-10-04T20:43:33Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Re: Nothing But Trouble==&lt;br /&gt;
Appreciate some of your posts on there, I've given ya a special mention on the 'Talk' section for that page. Anything that improves what I could have only hoped to be a decently acceptable first page. I was surprised to not see it on the site though, I enjoy the film quite a bit.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Screencapping ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just wondering how you are screencapping your movies?   Are you just using a screengrab off your monitor?  You may want to use VLC player to get better results.   Also, don't forget to cut off the black bars and make sure your aspect ratio is set to 16:9 widescreen.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 10:51, 3 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hmmm... you're right. I'm gonna use the VLC player from now on... and cut the black bars properly.. [[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 12:31, 3 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==BTW: good job on the Already dead page, but ...==&lt;br /&gt;
In the IMFDB rules, you don't hyperlink the gun titles, but put it in the body of the description.  Just a reminder.  Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==BTW, PNGS are not allowed==&lt;br /&gt;
BTW, on Feast all the screenshots uploaded were PNG files.  Sorry, but only Jpegs are allowed (check the rules).  PNG images will be deleted/replaced.  If you have any difficulty converting them, please let us know.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 09:07, 7 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Hi==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 20:42, 3 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry but i am not Finnish. I am from Wyoming, USA and am doing fine. I have pretty limited experience with handguns but i like most Rugers, Berettas, and i sort of like glocks. My favorite handgun round is either 9mm or .40.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 20:43, 4 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Warejaws&amp;diff=337115</id>
		<title>User talk:Warejaws</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Warejaws&amp;diff=337115"/>
		<updated>2010-10-03T20:42:48Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Re: Nothing But Trouble==&lt;br /&gt;
Appreciate some of your posts on there, I've given ya a special mention on the 'Talk' section for that page. Anything that improves what I could have only hoped to be a decently acceptable first page. I was surprised to not see it on the site though, I enjoy the film quite a bit.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Screencapping ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just wondering how you are screencapping your movies?   Are you just using a screengrab off your monitor?  You may want to use VLC player to get better results.   Also, don't forget to cut off the black bars and make sure your aspect ratio is set to 16:9 widescreen.  --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 10:51, 3 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hmmm... you're right. I'm gonna use the VLC player from now on... and cut the black bars properly.. [[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 12:31, 3 February 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==BTW: good job on the Already dead page, but ...==&lt;br /&gt;
In the IMFDB rules, you don't hyperlink the gun titles, but put it in the body of the description.  Just a reminder.  Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==BTW, PNGS are not allowed==&lt;br /&gt;
BTW, on Feast all the screenshots uploaded were PNG files.  Sorry, but only Jpegs are allowed (check the rules).  PNG images will be deleted/replaced.  If you have any difficulty converting them, please let us know.  [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 09:07, 7 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Hi==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 20:42, 3 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=333381</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=333381"/>
		<updated>2010-09-24T23:21:57Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my age, name, or location but i will let you know that i do own firearms and i am not some dumb kid who plays video games with too much time on his hands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guns that I own: I own about 20 or so guns, mostly 12 and 20 gauge shotguns and 22's and some hunting rifles in 30-06 and .243, Recently, i bought a centerfire semi-auto rifle and a centerfire pistol.&lt;br /&gt;
:Ruger P94DC&lt;br /&gt;
:Russian SKS&lt;br /&gt;
:Colt Police Positive 32 S&amp;amp;W Long&lt;br /&gt;
:Iver Johnson revolver 38 S&amp;amp;W&lt;br /&gt;
:Galesi 22lr&lt;br /&gt;
:(2) Remington 870 both 12 gauge&lt;br /&gt;
:(2) Ruger 10/22&lt;br /&gt;
:Ruger m77 30-06&lt;br /&gt;
:Savage Predator .243&lt;br /&gt;
:Winchester Model 1200 20 gauge&lt;br /&gt;
:Stevens single-shot .410 shotgun (the first gun my dad bought me when I was 9 or 10&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:and more that i will add when i have the time&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Guns I shot at a Machine Gun Shoot ==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, I shot these at my local Northern Rockies Machine Gun and Cannon Shoot , I shoot new ones every year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:a full auto AR-15 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
:M16A1&lt;br /&gt;
:Russian PPSH&lt;br /&gt;
:Browning m1919 .30 cal machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
:Browning M2 50 caliber machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
:Uzi 9mm&lt;br /&gt;
:M79 grenade launcher (smoke rounds not HE rounds)&lt;br /&gt;
:M2 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
:AR-50 .50 cal sniper rifle&lt;br /&gt;
:M1 Garand&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=324373</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=324373"/>
		<updated>2010-09-05T20:09:09Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my age, name, or location but i will let you know that i do own firearms and i am not some dumb kid who plays video games with too much time on his hands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guns that I own: I own about 20 or so guns, mostly 12 and 20 gauge shotguns and 22's and some hunting rifles in 30-06 and .243, Recently, i bought a centerfire semi-auto rifle and a centerfire pistol. I will tell you about some of my more unique ones&lt;br /&gt;
:Ruger P94DC&lt;br /&gt;
:Russian SKS&lt;br /&gt;
:Colt Police Positive 32 S&amp;amp;W Long&lt;br /&gt;
:Iver Johnson revolver 38 S&amp;amp;W&lt;br /&gt;
:Galesi 22lr&lt;br /&gt;
:(2) Remington 870&lt;br /&gt;
:(2) Ruger 10/22&lt;br /&gt;
:and more that i will add when i have the time&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Guns I shot at a Machine Gun Shoot ==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, I shot these at my local Northern Rockies Machine Gun and Cannon Shoot , I shoot new ones every year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:a full auto ar-15 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
:M16A1&lt;br /&gt;
:Russian PPSH&lt;br /&gt;
:Browning m1919 .30 cal machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
:Browning M2 50 caliber machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
:Uzi 9mm&lt;br /&gt;
:M79 grenade launcher (smoke rounds not HE rounds)&lt;br /&gt;
:M2 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
:AR-50 .50 cal sniper rifle&lt;br /&gt;
:M1 Garand&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=324372</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=324372"/>
		<updated>2010-09-05T19:54:00Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my age, name, or location but i will let you know that i do own firearms and i am not some dumb kid who plays video games with too much time on his hands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guns that i have shot: Russian SKS, Ruger P94DC, Glock 22, Ruger SR9, Remington Model 870, AR-50 .50 Caliber rifle, AR-15 (both semi and full-auto versions that i shot at my local machine gun shoot), M16A1 (full auto), Russian PPSH (full auto), M2 carbine (full Auto),M1 Garand , Browning M1919 .30 cal Machine gun, Browning M2 .50 cal machine gun, Uzi (full auto), M79 grenade launcher (smoke rounds not HE rounds), Mini 14, Colt Police Positive,Taurus Judge, Ruger M77 30-06, Savage Predator .243, and of course numerous .22's and .410 and 20 gauge shotguns.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Guns I shot at a Machine Gun Shoot ==&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, I shot these at my local Northern Rockies Machine Gun and Cannon Shoot,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a full auto ar-15 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
M16A1&lt;br /&gt;
Russian PPSH&lt;br /&gt;
Browning m1919 .30 cal machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
Browning M2 50 caliber machine gun&lt;br /&gt;
Uzi 9mm&lt;br /&gt;
M79 grenade launcher (smoke rounds not HE rounds)&lt;br /&gt;
M2 carbine&lt;br /&gt;
AR-50 .50 cal sniper rifle&lt;br /&gt;
M1 Garand&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=323854</id>
		<title>Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=323854"/>
		<updated>2010-09-04T11:58:42Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;This game has a cold war look to it&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's an SMG.&lt;br /&gt;
:: '''LoL.'''&lt;br /&gt;
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; means its a Carbine. The &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; means it has a folding stock. --ZEER&lt;br /&gt;
:::: No :) &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; ( Sklopnyj - somehing like &amp;quot;foldable&amp;quot;) means folding stock and &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way).  That's why people call them SMGs.  The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example).  It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle.  So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.&lt;br /&gt;
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==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY&lt;br /&gt;
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I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as &amp;quot;a machine gun&amp;quot; and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as &amp;quot;submachine guns&amp;quot;. [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::nerd rage&lt;br /&gt;
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is &amp;quot;SOG got it before everyone else&amp;quot;. That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==zombie mode==&lt;br /&gt;
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will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.&lt;br /&gt;
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully not copying spec ops.....&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it's aliens.&lt;br /&gt;
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Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==&lt;br /&gt;
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Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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==add m16 to page==&lt;br /&gt;
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It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in  ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.&lt;br /&gt;
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Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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m16 has been removed, only &amp;quot;ar-15 carbine&amp;quot; is there.&lt;br /&gt;
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==='''M16 is in.'''===&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.&lt;br /&gt;
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Weapons that would make sense==&lt;br /&gt;
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 39&lt;br /&gt;
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AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM&lt;br /&gt;
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-Add any other weapons that would make sense&lt;br /&gt;
:M3A1 &amp;quot;Grease Gun&amp;quot;/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 &amp;quot;Death Machine&amp;quot;(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).&lt;br /&gt;
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Dirty Harry's Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ? &lt;br /&gt;
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It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help. &lt;br /&gt;
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::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.&lt;br /&gt;
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''''''Some good proofs''' :''' &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&amp;amp;sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' ) &lt;br /&gt;
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''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''&lt;br /&gt;
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==Should be==&lt;br /&gt;
There should be M72 LAWs,  M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!&lt;br /&gt;
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Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and &amp;quot;smell of napalm in the morning&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==E3==&lt;br /&gt;
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Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 . &lt;br /&gt;
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== Not an AK-47 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You appear to have missed the point of this website...&lt;br /&gt;
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::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.&lt;br /&gt;
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AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Fixed the WASR-2 messup.  It's not a WASR-2.  NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES.  When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples.  That right there shows it's not a WASR.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Degtyarov ==&lt;br /&gt;
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.&lt;br /&gt;
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.&lt;br /&gt;
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==ummmm==&lt;br /&gt;
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.&lt;br /&gt;
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===&lt;br /&gt;
== AR-10 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10&lt;br /&gt;
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Un-identified guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]&lt;br /&gt;
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RPK ==&lt;br /&gt;
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From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*&lt;br /&gt;
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No. Look on that &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.&lt;br /&gt;
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Moved &amp;quot;Unknown LMG&amp;quot; stuff to the RPK-74 section.  Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.&lt;br /&gt;
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It says &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; on the slide.&lt;br /&gt;
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The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG&lt;br /&gt;
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== good decision ==&lt;br /&gt;
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As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.&lt;br /&gt;
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.&lt;br /&gt;
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Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.&lt;br /&gt;
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.  &lt;br /&gt;
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.&lt;br /&gt;
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say &amp;quot;hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?&amp;quot; And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying &amp;quot;3RD PERSON&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Play&amp;quot; screen ?&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.&lt;br /&gt;
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion&amp;quot;. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!!   THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.&lt;br /&gt;
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy.   [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say &amp;quot;Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em&amp;quot;, instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== MP5k ==&lt;br /&gt;
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You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?&lt;br /&gt;
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.&lt;br /&gt;
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You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D&lt;br /&gt;
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun&lt;br /&gt;
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside &amp;quot;the looks&amp;quot;?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war&amp;quot;...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat&lt;br /&gt;
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Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?&lt;br /&gt;
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Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?&amp;quot; Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.&lt;br /&gt;
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.&lt;br /&gt;
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You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM.  SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to.  Could they have carried a prototype MP5K?  Sure!  Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time.  Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.&lt;br /&gt;
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver.  Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced.  The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type.  The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177.  Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''&lt;br /&gt;
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:::No, not at all.  My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver.  Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their &amp;quot;balanced&amp;quot; and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.&lt;br /&gt;
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:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: &amp;quot;The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail.&amp;quot; Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.&lt;br /&gt;
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The model 656 looked like this: &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:model 656.jpg]] &lt;br /&gt;
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It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed. &lt;br /&gt;
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)&lt;br /&gt;
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Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.&lt;br /&gt;
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It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Complaints ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say &amp;quot;They should have done better research!&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;They don't know anything about history!&amp;quot;, but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.&lt;br /&gt;
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*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam.  As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella.  Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive&lt;br /&gt;
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:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the &amp;quot;story&amp;quot;. If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***&lt;br /&gt;
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, it doesnt have to be &amp;quot;interactive history lesson&amp;quot; but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''&lt;br /&gt;
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As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
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Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.&lt;br /&gt;
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG &amp;amp; Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm&lt;br /&gt;
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Unknown ==&lt;br /&gt;
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it&lt;br /&gt;
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moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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== Carcano M91/38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen &amp;quot;Lee Harvey Oswald&amp;quot; on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 and XM177 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Valment m78 == &lt;br /&gt;
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Damn straight.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those &amp;quot;cool&amp;quot; and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Prototypes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, &amp;lt;quote&amp;gt;which no one outside the team will ever get to see&amp;lt;/quote&amp;gt;. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.&lt;br /&gt;
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.&lt;br /&gt;
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.)  --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into &amp;quot;anything goes&amp;quot; territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M14==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. They'll Probably put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really  wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AUG sans grip ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the &amp;quot;finger guard.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the&lt;br /&gt;
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2. &lt;br /&gt;
=== Bullpup guns ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OXM article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- It was inspired by the book &amp;quot;SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos,&amp;quot; by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1275440842&amp;amp;sr=8-1] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- At least from their description, the &amp;quot;WMD&amp;quot; level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M202 FLASH is confirmed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M1911s with &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; etched on them also have tally marks on them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- They mention a co-op feature that &amp;quot;appears to be a successor&amp;quot; to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Regarding anachronistic guns, &amp;quot;'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) &amp;quot;The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement.&amp;quot; Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !&lt;br /&gt;
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Cool&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RC planes instead of predator missiles?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Document from viral site ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over at the CoD wiki I found this &amp;quot;document&amp;quot; from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as &amp;quot;very early prototype weapon; not in production&amp;quot;. It also mentions the [[G11]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and also the delicious China Lake Launcher&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&amp;amp;K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&amp;amp;K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M202 FLASH ==&lt;br /&gt;
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?&lt;br /&gt;
::The reference specifically said &amp;quot;M202.&amp;quot; We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled &amp;quot;M202&amp;quot; in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information.  --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
Here is what it shoots&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Not being able to go past vietnam?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is this crap I hear about treyarch  LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two &amp;quot;creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio.&amp;quot; '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval.&amp;quot;'''&lt;br /&gt;
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer&lt;br /&gt;
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to stay on topic, how would they define &amp;quot;distant future?&amp;quot; Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:DOC10.jpg]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Still a little chance ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 on magazine cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.&lt;br /&gt;
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bothering you that much?&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.&lt;br /&gt;
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The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....&lt;br /&gt;
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vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true&lt;br /&gt;
:That could be multiplayer screens&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==&lt;br /&gt;
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All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!! &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators!  (video game maker logic))&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:'''nerd'''&lt;br /&gt;
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At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the &amp;quot;it's supposed to be a prototype&amp;quot; line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)&lt;br /&gt;
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of &amp;quot;SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars&amp;quot; by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]])  fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snake ==&lt;br /&gt;
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.&lt;br /&gt;
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== .357 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It is a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Grenade Launcher ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it &amp;quot;Grenade launcher.&amp;quot; It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...&lt;br /&gt;
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think&lt;br /&gt;
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.&lt;br /&gt;
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It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS-12 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...&lt;br /&gt;
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Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!&lt;br /&gt;
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...&lt;br /&gt;
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At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;AR&amp;quot; Sling ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.&lt;br /&gt;
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[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks. &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bad Feeling ==&lt;br /&gt;
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After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch.  Are they perfect?  No..but now a days they're better than IW.&lt;br /&gt;
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I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.&lt;br /&gt;
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Everyone here talking shit about IW?  You're a bunch of idiots.  IW makes far better games.  I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far.  This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).&lt;br /&gt;
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to &amp;quot;It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game.&amp;quot;[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is&lt;br /&gt;
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IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact.  MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features.  Was multiplayer a bit buggy?  Yeah, for around a month.  Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW?  That game was garbage.  It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned.  The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now let's talk about Treyarch.  Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series?  Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops.  I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series.  CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'.  Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job.  What does that record suggest their next game will be like?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2.  They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer.  The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Goofs and screw-ups ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking  name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it. &lt;br /&gt;
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and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.&lt;br /&gt;
::For your information I am actually 12.&lt;br /&gt;
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Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a &amp;quot;TOP SECRET&amp;quot; excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.&lt;br /&gt;
-One Man Army&lt;br /&gt;
-Danger Close M203s&lt;br /&gt;
-Commando&lt;br /&gt;
-The Spawn system&lt;br /&gt;
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpriced map packs&lt;br /&gt;
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang&lt;br /&gt;
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo&lt;br /&gt;
-boosters galore&lt;br /&gt;
-10 Prestige hack lobbies&lt;br /&gt;
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage&lt;br /&gt;
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So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's &amp;quot;Black ops&amp;quot; doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians &amp;amp; Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole &amp;quot;prototype&amp;quot; B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)&lt;br /&gt;
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of &amp;quot;what players want&amp;quot;, more a case of Treyarch saying &amp;quot;we think we know what players want&amp;quot;. This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::&amp;quot;At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.&amp;quot; My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.&lt;br /&gt;
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like &amp;quot;How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!&amp;quot; Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]&lt;br /&gt;
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup&lt;br /&gt;
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One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as &amp;quot;fuck ups&amp;quot; in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T&lt;br /&gt;
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:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I never really got that mindset &amp;quot;It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it&amp;quot;. Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I dont see MW2 as &amp;quot;noob friendly&amp;quot;, just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing. &lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing &amp;quot;Helicopter Inbound&amp;quot;, then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. &amp;quot;noob tubers&amp;quot; really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.&lt;br /&gt;
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I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.&lt;br /&gt;
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You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Linked to World at War ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot; [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot;&amp;quot; What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling &amp;quot;FIRE THE LAW&amp;quot; in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any links to zombies?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2,&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:&lt;br /&gt;
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the &amp;quot;SOG got it first&amp;quot; excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is what I'm talkin about:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:&lt;br /&gt;
*The H&amp;amp;K SMGI &amp;amp; II&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=103:smg-i-a-ii&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=102:mp5-pip&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== G11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion  --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== XM214 Microgun ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance?  I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A more plausable fictional AR-15  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New weapons! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From left to right, starting at the top:&amp;lt;br ?&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-M16A2 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MAC-10 w/ supressor&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-AUG&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Mini-Uzi&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-L85&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Scorpion SA Vz 61&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
-AKs-74u&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Another Skorpion&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-SPAS-12&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MP5 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry it's a bit blurry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: That pic is here too :) Check out &amp;quot;extras&amp;quot; section in article :D&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored &amp;quot;Iranian Hostage Situation&amp;quot; level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)&lt;br /&gt;
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hope its just &amp;quot;iranian embassy raid inspired&amp;quot;, not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube &amp;quot;HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1&amp;quot; It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like &amp;quot;Elephant&amp;amp;Rhino look alike&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;M16 looks like AK 47&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said &amp;quot;a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!&amp;quot; even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because &amp;quot;It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life&amp;quot;. I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them.  Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]&lt;br /&gt;
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While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Anyone Take Notice?==&lt;br /&gt;
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During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said &amp;quot;Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New Trailer ==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54&lt;br /&gt;
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Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying.  Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question.  They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse.  Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Unless they've gone down the &amp;quot;we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun&amp;quot; route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, &amp;quot;What the hell...&amp;quot; But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor&lt;br /&gt;
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The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified &amp;quot;near future&amp;quot; kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, &amp;quot;Modern Warfare.&amp;quot; Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of &amp;quot;Modern Warfare back in time&amp;quot; deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?&lt;br /&gt;
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.&lt;br /&gt;
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]&lt;br /&gt;
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== The COD wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the &amp;quot;gun nerds&amp;quot; on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at &amp;quot;Black Ops&amp;quot; history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined  like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm over at Cod wiki right now.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Those are definitely explosive tips==&lt;br /&gt;
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The attachment on this picture:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.&lt;br /&gt;
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.&lt;br /&gt;
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png&lt;br /&gt;
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==A nice detail==&lt;br /&gt;
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ballistic knife==&lt;br /&gt;
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.&lt;br /&gt;
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No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snub Nose ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python&lt;br /&gt;
Confirm?&lt;br /&gt;
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I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as &amp;quot;Aparently they did no research&amp;quot; and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.&lt;br /&gt;
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dragunov? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?&lt;br /&gt;
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watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the action diver had one, too&lt;br /&gt;
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== R/C car ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Retarded gimmick is retarded.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Some prototypes photos ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ? &lt;br /&gt;
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg] &lt;br /&gt;
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==RPG-7==&lt;br /&gt;
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Can someone put that pic on the page in &amp;quot;RPG-7&amp;quot; section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Time period and Guns==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The &amp;quot;but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!&amp;quot; argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era.  --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''&lt;br /&gt;
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.&lt;br /&gt;
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.&lt;br /&gt;
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New pics ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
IGN has some new BO pics:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?&lt;br /&gt;
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...&lt;br /&gt;
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.&lt;br /&gt;
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than  Russians with SPAS.&lt;br /&gt;
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other &amp;quot;new&amp;quot; screens are from SP :)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...&lt;br /&gt;
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the &amp;quot;Inception level.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== I think they did it again... ==&lt;br /&gt;
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==&lt;br /&gt;
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil &amp;amp; http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.&lt;br /&gt;
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about &amp;quot;Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS&amp;quot; and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:KS is yet another anachronism.&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another &amp;quot;American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War&amp;quot; mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]&lt;br /&gt;
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had &amp;quot;CCCP&amp;quot; written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.&lt;br /&gt;
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AI Arctic Warfare ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.&lt;br /&gt;
::: &amp;quot;The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''.&amp;quot; If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.&lt;br /&gt;
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Don't forget that most of those &amp;quot;Jew guns&amp;quot; could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those &amp;quot;kosher&amp;quot; weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs. &lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::::::Name a few?&lt;br /&gt;
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You should also get me some &amp;quot;real life&amp;quot; statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are &amp;quot;inferior.&amp;quot; -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)&lt;br /&gt;
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What &amp;quot;facts&amp;quot; do you have that make these weapons &amp;quot;inferior&amp;quot;? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.&lt;br /&gt;
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said &amp;quot;I don't see nothing good about those &amp;quot;kosher&amp;quot; weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SKS ==&lt;br /&gt;
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.&lt;br /&gt;
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.&lt;br /&gt;
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, i think they just googled &amp;quot;AK&amp;quot; and modelled first gun they have seen.&lt;br /&gt;
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail&lt;br /&gt;
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
== AS VAL ==&lt;br /&gt;
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces&lt;br /&gt;
::No.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AKS-74U? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New details released ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...&lt;br /&gt;
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|&amp;quot;Payback Time!&amp;quot;]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==&lt;br /&gt;
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Create A Class Video ==&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Full Weapon List ==&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak&lt;br /&gt;
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LMG: HK21, RPK, M60&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M202 &amp;amp; M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the &amp;quot;Create a class&amp;quot; video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called &amp;quot;Death Machine&amp;quot;, so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the &amp;quot;Wager&amp;quot; game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Seriously.... == &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: If you say so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Iron sights ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: ...a little excited there, bro?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Enfield ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY &amp;quot;Enfield&amp;quot; is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an &amp;quot;Enfield?&amp;quot; I google in &amp;quot;enfield prototype,&amp;quot; and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Burst M16? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And why should they call it the &amp;quot;Raffica&amp;quot;? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does &amp;quot;get with the times&amp;quot; have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say &amp;quot;hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist.&amp;quot; That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Another video ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called &amp;quot;G11 Cruelty.&amp;quot; --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A Question about guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The &lt;br /&gt;
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==FAMAS correction==&lt;br /&gt;
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile== &lt;br /&gt;
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.&lt;br /&gt;
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The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call &amp;quot;Valkyrie Rockets&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Flamethrower ==&lt;br /&gt;
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Grim Reaper? ==&lt;br /&gt;
:In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what it is, any ideas?&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=323853</id>
		<title>Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=323853"/>
		<updated>2010-09-04T11:58:30Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;This game has a cold war look to it&lt;br /&gt;
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==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's an SMG.&lt;br /&gt;
:: '''LoL.'''&lt;br /&gt;
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; means its a Carbine. The &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; means it has a folding stock. --ZEER&lt;br /&gt;
:::: No :) &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; ( Sklopnyj - somehing like &amp;quot;foldable&amp;quot;) means folding stock and &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)&lt;br /&gt;
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An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.&lt;br /&gt;
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At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.&lt;br /&gt;
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Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way).  That's why people call them SMGs.  The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example).  It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle.  So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.&lt;br /&gt;
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==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY&lt;br /&gt;
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I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as &amp;quot;a machine gun&amp;quot; and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as &amp;quot;submachine guns&amp;quot;. [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::nerd rage&lt;br /&gt;
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is &amp;quot;SOG got it before everyone else&amp;quot;. That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==zombie mode==&lt;br /&gt;
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will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.&lt;br /&gt;
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully not copying spec ops.....&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it's aliens.&lt;br /&gt;
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Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==&lt;br /&gt;
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Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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==add m16 to page==&lt;br /&gt;
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It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in  ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.&lt;br /&gt;
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Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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m16 has been removed, only &amp;quot;ar-15 carbine&amp;quot; is there.&lt;br /&gt;
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==='''M16 is in.'''===&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.&lt;br /&gt;
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Weapons that would make sense==&lt;br /&gt;
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 39&lt;br /&gt;
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AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM&lt;br /&gt;
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-Add any other weapons that would make sense&lt;br /&gt;
:M3A1 &amp;quot;Grease Gun&amp;quot;/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 &amp;quot;Death Machine&amp;quot;(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).&lt;br /&gt;
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Dirty Harry's Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ? &lt;br /&gt;
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It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help. &lt;br /&gt;
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::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.&lt;br /&gt;
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''''''Some good proofs''' :''' &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&amp;amp;sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' ) &lt;br /&gt;
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''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''&lt;br /&gt;
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==Should be==&lt;br /&gt;
There should be M72 LAWs,  M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!&lt;br /&gt;
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Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and &amp;quot;smell of napalm in the morning&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==E3==&lt;br /&gt;
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Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 . &lt;br /&gt;
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== Not an AK-47 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You appear to have missed the point of this website...&lt;br /&gt;
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::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.&lt;br /&gt;
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AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Fixed the WASR-2 messup.  It's not a WASR-2.  NO WASR series of rifles have the stamped steel MAGWELL DIMPLES.  When looking at the screenshots the AK in game HAS those magwell dimples.  That right there shows it's not a WASR.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Degtyarov ==&lt;br /&gt;
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.&lt;br /&gt;
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.&lt;br /&gt;
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==ummmm==&lt;br /&gt;
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.&lt;br /&gt;
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===&lt;br /&gt;
== AR-10 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10&lt;br /&gt;
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Un-identified guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]&lt;br /&gt;
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RPK ==&lt;br /&gt;
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From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*&lt;br /&gt;
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No. Look on that &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.&lt;br /&gt;
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Moved &amp;quot;Unknown LMG&amp;quot; stuff to the RPK-74 section.  Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.&lt;br /&gt;
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It says &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; on the slide.&lt;br /&gt;
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The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG&lt;br /&gt;
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== good decision ==&lt;br /&gt;
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As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.&lt;br /&gt;
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.&lt;br /&gt;
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Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.&lt;br /&gt;
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.  &lt;br /&gt;
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.&lt;br /&gt;
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say &amp;quot;hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?&amp;quot; And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying &amp;quot;3RD PERSON&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Play&amp;quot; screen ?&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.&lt;br /&gt;
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion&amp;quot;. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!!   THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.&lt;br /&gt;
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy.   [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say &amp;quot;Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em&amp;quot;, instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== MP5k ==&lt;br /&gt;
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You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?&lt;br /&gt;
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.&lt;br /&gt;
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You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D&lt;br /&gt;
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun&lt;br /&gt;
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside &amp;quot;the looks&amp;quot;?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war&amp;quot;...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat&lt;br /&gt;
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Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?&lt;br /&gt;
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Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?&amp;quot; Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.&lt;br /&gt;
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.&lt;br /&gt;
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You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM.  SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to.  Could they have carried a prototype MP5K?  Sure!  Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time.  Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.&lt;br /&gt;
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver.  Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced.  The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type.  The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177.  Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''&lt;br /&gt;
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:::No, not at all.  My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver.  Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their &amp;quot;balanced&amp;quot; and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.&lt;br /&gt;
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:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: &amp;quot;The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail.&amp;quot; Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.&lt;br /&gt;
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The model 656 looked like this: &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:model 656.jpg]] &lt;br /&gt;
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It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed. &lt;br /&gt;
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)&lt;br /&gt;
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Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Complaints ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say &amp;quot;They should have done better research!&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;They don't know anything about history!&amp;quot;, but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.&lt;br /&gt;
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*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam.  As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella.  Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive&lt;br /&gt;
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too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the &amp;quot;story&amp;quot;. If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***&lt;br /&gt;
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, it doesnt have to be &amp;quot;interactive history lesson&amp;quot; but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''&lt;br /&gt;
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As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
(UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.&lt;br /&gt;
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG &amp;amp; Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm&lt;br /&gt;
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Unknown ==&lt;br /&gt;
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it&lt;br /&gt;
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moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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== Carcano M91/38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen &amp;quot;Lee Harvey Oswald&amp;quot; on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 and XM177 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Valment m78 == &lt;br /&gt;
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Damn straight.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those &amp;quot;cool&amp;quot; and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Prototypes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, &amp;lt;quote&amp;gt;which no one outside the team will ever get to see&amp;lt;/quote&amp;gt;. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.&lt;br /&gt;
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.&lt;br /&gt;
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.)  --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into &amp;quot;anything goes&amp;quot; territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M14==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. They'll Probably put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really  wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.&lt;br /&gt;
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== AUG sans grip ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the &amp;quot;finger guard.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the&lt;br /&gt;
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2. &lt;br /&gt;
=== Bullpup guns ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OXM article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- It was inspired by the book &amp;quot;SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos,&amp;quot; by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1275440842&amp;amp;sr=8-1] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- At least from their description, the &amp;quot;WMD&amp;quot; level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M202 FLASH is confirmed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M1911s with &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; etched on them also have tally marks on them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- They mention a co-op feature that &amp;quot;appears to be a successor&amp;quot; to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Regarding anachronistic guns, &amp;quot;'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) &amp;quot;The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement.&amp;quot; Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !&lt;br /&gt;
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Cool&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RC planes instead of predator missiles?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Document from viral site ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over at the CoD wiki I found this &amp;quot;document&amp;quot; from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as &amp;quot;very early prototype weapon; not in production&amp;quot;. It also mentions the [[G11]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and also the delicious China Lake Launcher&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&amp;amp;K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&amp;amp;K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power&lt;br /&gt;
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== M202 FLASH ==&lt;br /&gt;
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?&lt;br /&gt;
::The reference specifically said &amp;quot;M202.&amp;quot; We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled &amp;quot;M202&amp;quot; in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information.  --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
Here is what it shoots&lt;br /&gt;
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[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Not being able to go past vietnam?==&lt;br /&gt;
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What is this crap I hear about treyarch  LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two &amp;quot;creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio.&amp;quot; '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval.&amp;quot;'''&lt;br /&gt;
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer&lt;br /&gt;
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to stay on topic, how would they define &amp;quot;distant future?&amp;quot; Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:DOC10.jpg]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Still a little chance ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 on magazine cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.&lt;br /&gt;
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bothering you that much?&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.&lt;br /&gt;
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The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....&lt;br /&gt;
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vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true&lt;br /&gt;
:That could be multiplayer screens&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==&lt;br /&gt;
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All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!! &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators!  (video game maker logic))&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:'''nerd'''&lt;br /&gt;
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At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the &amp;quot;it's supposed to be a prototype&amp;quot; line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)&lt;br /&gt;
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of &amp;quot;SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars&amp;quot; by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]])  fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snake ==&lt;br /&gt;
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.&lt;br /&gt;
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== .357 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It is a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Grenade Launcher ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it &amp;quot;Grenade launcher.&amp;quot; It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...&lt;br /&gt;
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think&lt;br /&gt;
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.&lt;br /&gt;
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It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS-12 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...&lt;br /&gt;
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Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!&lt;br /&gt;
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...&lt;br /&gt;
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At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;AR&amp;quot; Sling ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.&lt;br /&gt;
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[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Bad Feeling ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch.  Are they perfect?  No..but now a days they're better than IW.&lt;br /&gt;
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I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.&lt;br /&gt;
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Everyone here talking shit about IW?  You're a bunch of idiots.  IW makes far better games.  I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far.  This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).&lt;br /&gt;
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to &amp;quot;It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game.&amp;quot;[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is&lt;br /&gt;
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IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact.  MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features.  Was multiplayer a bit buggy?  Yeah, for around a month.  Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW?  That game was garbage.  It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned.  The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now let's talk about Treyarch.  Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series?  Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops.  I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series.  CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'.  Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job.  What does that record suggest their next game will be like?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2.  They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer.  The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Goofs and screw-ups ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking  name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it. &lt;br /&gt;
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and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.&lt;br /&gt;
::For your information I am actually 12.&lt;br /&gt;
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Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a &amp;quot;TOP SECRET&amp;quot; excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.&lt;br /&gt;
-One Man Army&lt;br /&gt;
-Danger Close M203s&lt;br /&gt;
-Commando&lt;br /&gt;
-The Spawn system&lt;br /&gt;
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpriced map packs&lt;br /&gt;
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang&lt;br /&gt;
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo&lt;br /&gt;
-boosters galore&lt;br /&gt;
-10 Prestige hack lobbies&lt;br /&gt;
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage&lt;br /&gt;
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So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's &amp;quot;Black ops&amp;quot; doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians &amp;amp; Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole &amp;quot;prototype&amp;quot; B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)&lt;br /&gt;
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of &amp;quot;what players want&amp;quot;, more a case of Treyarch saying &amp;quot;we think we know what players want&amp;quot;. This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::&amp;quot;At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.&amp;quot; My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.&lt;br /&gt;
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like &amp;quot;How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!&amp;quot; Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]&lt;br /&gt;
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup&lt;br /&gt;
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One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as &amp;quot;fuck ups&amp;quot; in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T&lt;br /&gt;
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:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I never really got that mindset &amp;quot;It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it&amp;quot;. Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I dont see MW2 as &amp;quot;noob friendly&amp;quot;, just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing. &lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing &amp;quot;Helicopter Inbound&amp;quot;, then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. &amp;quot;noob tubers&amp;quot; really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.&lt;br /&gt;
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I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.&lt;br /&gt;
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You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Linked to World at War ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot; [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot;&amp;quot; What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling &amp;quot;FIRE THE LAW&amp;quot; in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Any links to zombies?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2,&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:&lt;br /&gt;
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the &amp;quot;SOG got it first&amp;quot; excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is what I'm talkin about:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:&lt;br /&gt;
*The H&amp;amp;K SMGI &amp;amp; II&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=103:smg-i-a-ii&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=102:mp5-pip&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== G11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion  --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== XM214 Microgun ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance?  I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== A more plausable fictional AR-15  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New weapons! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From left to right, starting at the top:&amp;lt;br ?&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-M16A2 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MAC-10 w/ supressor&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-AUG&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Mini-Uzi&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-L85&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Scorpion SA Vz 61&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
-AKs-74u&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Another Skorpion&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-SPAS-12&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MP5 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry it's a bit blurry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: That pic is here too :) Check out &amp;quot;extras&amp;quot; section in article :D&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored &amp;quot;Iranian Hostage Situation&amp;quot; level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)&lt;br /&gt;
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope its just &amp;quot;iranian embassy raid inspired&amp;quot;, not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube &amp;quot;HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1&amp;quot; It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like &amp;quot;Elephant&amp;amp;Rhino look alike&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;M16 looks like AK 47&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said &amp;quot;a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!&amp;quot; even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Or not.&lt;br /&gt;
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Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?&lt;br /&gt;
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It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because &amp;quot;It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life&amp;quot;. I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)&lt;br /&gt;
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So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them.  Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]&lt;br /&gt;
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While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Anyone Take Notice?==&lt;br /&gt;
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During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said &amp;quot;Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New Trailer ==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54&lt;br /&gt;
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Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying.  Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question.  They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse.  Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Unless they've gone down the &amp;quot;we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun&amp;quot; route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, &amp;quot;What the hell...&amp;quot; But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor&lt;br /&gt;
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The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified &amp;quot;near future&amp;quot; kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, &amp;quot;Modern Warfare.&amp;quot; Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of &amp;quot;Modern Warfare back in time&amp;quot; deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?&lt;br /&gt;
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.&lt;br /&gt;
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]&lt;br /&gt;
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== The COD wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the &amp;quot;gun nerds&amp;quot; on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at &amp;quot;Black Ops&amp;quot; history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined  like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm over at Cod wiki right now.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Those are definitely explosive tips==&lt;br /&gt;
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The attachment on this picture:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.&lt;br /&gt;
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.&lt;br /&gt;
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png&lt;br /&gt;
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==A nice detail==&lt;br /&gt;
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ballistic knife==&lt;br /&gt;
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.&lt;br /&gt;
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No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snub Nose ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python&lt;br /&gt;
Confirm?&lt;br /&gt;
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I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as &amp;quot;Aparently they did no research&amp;quot; and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.&lt;br /&gt;
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dragunov? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?&lt;br /&gt;
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watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the action diver had one, too&lt;br /&gt;
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== R/C car ==&lt;br /&gt;
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For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?&lt;br /&gt;
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Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Retarded gimmick is retarded.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Some prototypes photos ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ? &lt;br /&gt;
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For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]&lt;br /&gt;
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Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.&lt;br /&gt;
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And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ? &lt;br /&gt;
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg] &lt;br /&gt;
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RPG-7==&lt;br /&gt;
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png&lt;br /&gt;
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Can someone put that pic on the page in &amp;quot;RPG-7&amp;quot; section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7&lt;br /&gt;
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==Time period and Guns==&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The &amp;quot;but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!&amp;quot; argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era.  --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.&lt;br /&gt;
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== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''&lt;br /&gt;
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.&lt;br /&gt;
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.&lt;br /&gt;
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New pics ==&lt;br /&gt;
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IGN has some new BO pics:&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
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Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?&lt;br /&gt;
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...&lt;br /&gt;
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.&lt;br /&gt;
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than  Russians with SPAS.&lt;br /&gt;
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other &amp;quot;new&amp;quot; screens are from SP :)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...&lt;br /&gt;
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the &amp;quot;Inception level.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I think they did it again... ==&lt;br /&gt;
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.&lt;br /&gt;
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I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==&lt;br /&gt;
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil &amp;amp; http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.&lt;br /&gt;
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about &amp;quot;Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS&amp;quot; and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:KS is yet another anachronism.&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another &amp;quot;American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War&amp;quot; mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]&lt;br /&gt;
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......&lt;br /&gt;
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I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had &amp;quot;CCCP&amp;quot; written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.&lt;br /&gt;
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
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== AI Arctic Warfare ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.&lt;br /&gt;
::: &amp;quot;The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''.&amp;quot; If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.&lt;br /&gt;
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Don't forget that most of those &amp;quot;Jew guns&amp;quot; could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those &amp;quot;kosher&amp;quot; weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs. &lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::::::Name a few?&lt;br /&gt;
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You should also get me some &amp;quot;real life&amp;quot; statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are &amp;quot;inferior.&amp;quot; -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)&lt;br /&gt;
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What &amp;quot;facts&amp;quot; do you have that make these weapons &amp;quot;inferior&amp;quot;? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.&lt;br /&gt;
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said &amp;quot;I don't see nothing good about those &amp;quot;kosher&amp;quot; weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SKS ==&lt;br /&gt;
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.&lt;br /&gt;
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.&lt;br /&gt;
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, i think they just googled &amp;quot;AK&amp;quot; and modelled first gun they have seen.&lt;br /&gt;
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail&lt;br /&gt;
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
== AS VAL ==&lt;br /&gt;
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces&lt;br /&gt;
::No.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AKS-74U? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New details released ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_8mPoloBo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This confirms a whole bunch of stuff, too much for me to list. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:10 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Almighty, there's a mini-gun....a ''handheld'' minigun...&lt;br /&gt;
::Wow! I'm so pumped for spaying batches of n000bs with that thing WOW&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Who cares?! An Ithica! And an L96! I'm in love. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 02:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I just watched the video...HOLY CRAP...A MINIGUN?!...Im in heaven! [[User:SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
:: [[Predator#GE_M134_Minigun_Handheld|&amp;quot;Payback Time!&amp;quot;]] [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 03:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::New weapons we see are the WA2000, Makarov, Ithica, RPK (first in first person), MP5K (first person), Skorpion, HK21 (Awesome!), M14 (wood!), M134 (nicknamed Death Machine), M16 (first person, burst), AKS-74u, and also that new blue-tinted scope, maybe a new version of thermal? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can THROW A TOMAHAWK?! That's awesome! Now if only you can melee with it... --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Over and Under shotgun, HK21 plus even moar footage ==&lt;br /&gt;
As seen in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/team-deathmatch-call-of/703936&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There's also more new MP footage up on Game Trailers and floating around YouTube. [[User:Swamples|Swamples]] 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If you didn't notice, the handgun at the beginning was an ASP. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This killicon, taken from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRG_z3ib-o looks like a full sized Uzi: http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1143/uzi.png -The Unsigned&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Create A Class Video ==&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAM5AZxmT_M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
WAY too much to write, just take a look, and at his other BO vids while youre there. Also, awesome pistol selection :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Full Weapon List ==&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jatp6Fgs-ak&lt;br /&gt;
The video's not too interesting, most of this is stuff from other videos, the cool part is in the description. Note that he wrote MAC-11 instead of CZ-75.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
SMG: MP5K, Skorpion, MAC-11, AKS-74u, Uzi, PM63, MPL, Spectre&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assault: Enfield, M14, FAMAS, Galil, AUG, FAL, AK-47, Commando, M16, CLASSIFIED (There's actually no M1 Garand)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shotguns: Olympia, Ithica 37, SPAS-12&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LMG: HK21, RPK, M60&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sniper Rifles: Dragunov, WA2000, L96A1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pistols: ASP, M1911, Makarov, Python, CZ-75&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Launchers: M72, RPG-7, Strela, China Lake&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M202 &amp;amp; M134 are apparently Kill Streaks and personally I think the Classified AR is the G11&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:ASP seems like an odd choice to put in a CoD game. Relative to the game, it seems like they went out of their way to put in a pistol that isn't that much different in function to a Makarov. (A small pistol with a small magazine.) Why not just a Walther P1? Or a SW M39? Looking down the sights of the guttersnipe will be interesting though. And I again applaud Treyarch for bringing in guns that have been otherwise neglected in gaming. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:58, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't know if these are all the weapons or if there are less in this public version, though since it is a full reveal and they make sense how they are, it's reasonable to assume these are all of them. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
EDIT: The KS-23 isn't on the list for some reason, meaning this build may not have all the weapons, or the person who made the list simply missed it as it is the only known weapon not there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Someone found a screencap of the ingame M60. http://a.imageshack.us/img834/7093/m60j.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think the M202 or the M134 are Killstreaks as if you look at the &amp;quot;Create a class&amp;quot; video above around the 0:36 mark it lists all the Killstreaks. As far I've seen in the trailers, the M134 is rather ironically called &amp;quot;Death Machine&amp;quot;, so it might just be a high level machine gun class weapon that the user has to buy. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 13:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I think the M202 and M134 might only be in the &amp;quot;Wager&amp;quot; game modes, were everyone has a chance to earn one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Seriously.... == &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is going to be worst CoD game. Minigun ? Flamethrower attachment ? Jesus . Even most stupid game from most stupid studio with most stupid gameplay will be better than this shit.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: If you say so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whatever you say, man, and what's wrong with a flamethrower attachment? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 00:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its completely idiotic.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think it sounds fucking AWESOME. No, it won't be realistic. But it's rule of cool, brohan.-protoAuthor 11:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, once you get over the fact that this game is inaccurate as hell, it starts to look pretty badass [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 11:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Iron sights ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whats with all the guns having that same back sight, i was ok with the CAR 15 and even the FAMAS having it, then i thought that it was pushing it with the AUG. Then i saw that the M60 has those sights too??!!! I hear you can customuzie your sights and i hope to god you can, cause i would be pissed if all the guns had extremely similiar iron sights --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 11:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''IS WONT BE CUSTOMIZATED !''' Its just cool to have them, you dont understand ? 7-year kids / 99% of BO players ) wont even recognize M16 and M4. SO WHATS THE PROBLEM ? Epect nuclear grenade flamethrower tactical launcher screen in nearliest days.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: ...a little excited there, bro?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Enfield ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Has anyone else noticed then in the create a class trailer when he goes in to primary weapons it says enfield ? anyone wanna put that up ?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I would but it's too little info to draw a conclusion on what EXACTLY &amp;quot;Enfield&amp;quot; is. It could be the SA80 but at the same time it could be something else, it's best to hold off for now until more info shows. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, it is most probably a SA80 but it can also be the L1A1.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::When I saw Enfield, I had assumed it would be the EM-2. When was the last time anyone referred to either SA-80 or L1A1 as an &amp;quot;Enfield?&amp;quot; I google in &amp;quot;enfield prototype,&amp;quot; and a picture of the EM-2 is the first thing that comes up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ya id say its going to be the EM-2 because on the killfeed for a teamdeathmatch i saw there was a weapon that looked like it&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If not the EM-2, it could be one of the Enfield SA80 prototypes (E60-, XL70-...etc) - Enfield did start the SA80 program in the late 60's so it could be possible for them to show up. It might also explain why Treyarch had that airsoft L85 on their wall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's an XL64, at least according to the create-a-class picture. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 17:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think - not sure though - in the multiplayer overview video, at 6.41 to 6.49, it is possible to view the Enfield with iron sights in first person - it has the SA80 type rail, a green-ish cheek rest on the left of the reciever and a green-foreguard. I could be mistaken though. If someone could get the screen shots up for closer inspection, it might be easier to tell. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You mean like [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:L85_7.png this?] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 19:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bingo! You can see the real SA80/British 'dovetail' 19mm optics mounting rail (under those weird iron sights...)Cheers [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's the XL64 for sure, saw it in the video a couple sections down ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Which is the same video I pulled the create-a-class image from in the first place. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 21:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah... not my best moment there, lol. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Burst M16? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I saw the recent multiplayer trailer, I coulda sworn that the M16 was firing in 3 round bursts. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It was, and while idont mind it being Burstfire, i do mind that they call it the M16 Raffica.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well I do cause there's no such thing as a burst firing M16A1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:In the Black Ops world there is. GET WITH THE TIMES EXCALIBER!!!!1--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And why should they call it the &amp;quot;Raffica&amp;quot;? (I know it's Italian for burst, but whatever.) [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the extended trailer thing on the xbox dashboard there is a Burst M16 and its called M16 raffica&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A burst M16A1 is stupid. Havent these guys seen a Vietnam era movie? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree it's stupid, but I suppose it will help make up for all of those full-auto A4s that are in every single movie. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First off, FIVETWOSEVEN, what does &amp;quot;get with the times&amp;quot; have to do with anything? That made no sense. In the Black Ops world, they operate outside of ordinary methods of operations and tactics. They go into extreme conditions and use the best equipments they can get their hands on but as I said before, they don't acquire guns that havent been invented yet and the military mentality of soldiers back then are different than they are now. A soldier during the Cold War would see any new technology pointless instead of an advantage because of the training and mentality, the if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Special Forces were no exception. Sure they were outside the ordinary, but they wouldn't have just say &amp;quot;hey, I want a gun that can do the following thing, can I have one? If it doesn't exist, I'll just get a gun smith, invent the parts and materials and make it exist.&amp;quot; That's not how things work in real life. Yes this is a game and I've just given up on trying to convince people otherwise. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:*WHOOSH* That was the sound of the obivious sarcasm flying over your head.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think he means it's now obvious Treyarch doesn't care, so why fret over it? Short of some weird plot twist that we're currently unaware of (and again, we know absolutely nothing about the plot,) Treyarch simply doesn't seem to care about historic or technical accuracy. They're selling games to kids and stoners, not history buffs and gun dorks. After seeing all the recent videos, I'm resigned to the fact that all we're going to get is a vastly enjoyable game with a lot of replay value. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Another video ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94SolEtpnc]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You get the see the M14 stock, the Enfield, and it confirms the G11 (There's a contract called &amp;quot;G11 Cruelty.&amp;quot; --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Ah, that would explain that one single classified weapon. [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 21:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like they're leaving a lot of old stuff in - killstreaks, perks, sentry guns, weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A Question about guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do you think there are any possibilities of Daewoo K1A or K2 appearing in this game?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think its about time some major game has put in guns made in Asia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
K2 is a really accurate rifle, it could serve as the 'ACR' of this game and K1 can be like MP5K or UMP of this game&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Men of Valor]] had a Type 56. Does that count? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've already seen all the guns that are going in game. So quite slim chances there. Also, sign your posts. [[User:The Wierd It|The &lt;br /&gt;
Wierd It]] 08:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I don't think we've quite seen all of them. We've seen all of the Assault Rifles and Handguns, and only some of the LMG's, SMG's, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. And that video a few sections up with supposedly all of the weapons in the game in it's description, is most likely incomplete. I seriously doubt there are only 3 sniper rifles. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Didn't people doubt only 4 sniper rifles with MW2?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Perhaps, but they only needed 4 to fill out the basic sniper rifles roles of COD. A bolt-action, a large caliber, a jack-of-all-trades, and a low recoil-low power. But with only 3, and moreso because of the 3 that we've seen, we should expect more, because so far we've only seen the bolt-action and two normal semi-auto sniper rifles that shouldn't be all too different from each other. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 05:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==FAMAS correction==&lt;br /&gt;
That's not a G2 FELIN, it's a F1 FELIN prototype. The one in the screenshots is based off the F1 model (note the small triggerguard and straight magazine). The G2 FELIN platform is based off of the FAMAS G2 and is distinguishable by the sheer massive amount of stuff strapped to it.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 18:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All the photos of the G2 FELIN I've seen have the small trigger guard. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Unknown Machine gun or Assault rifle?==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Codbp_uklmg.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
Here is a picture seen in new multiplayer tralier.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Unknown rocket launcher guide missile== &lt;br /&gt;
I seen in new multiplayer tralier.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The only thing I've seen that sounds like that is the 'Arch Angel' killstreak weapon, a missile guided by the player via a camera. (Similar to the Predator guided missile from Modern Warfare 2's killstreaks except that 'Arch Angel' appears to be a shoulder-fired system) [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank for information guy.In cod wiki they call &amp;quot;Valkyrie Rockets&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Archangel&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Flamethrower ==&lt;br /&gt;
I seen few second on enemy hand in new multiplayer tralier.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Grim Reaper? ==&lt;br /&gt;
:In the wager match video, after the player gets a kill with the WA2000, you see him switch to something called the grim reaper but you never get to see what is is, any ideas?&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Spades_of_Columbia&amp;diff=323038</id>
		<title>User talk:Spades of Columbia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Spades_of_Columbia&amp;diff=323038"/>
		<updated>2010-09-03T00:14:28Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Faster ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi if you don't mind ive added some info and a pic to your &amp;quot;Faster&amp;quot; page&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank God you did...truth be told I spend alot of time around guns and i watch as many movie as i can, but i am completely ignorant of computer uploading and coding and whatever other term you can think of dealing with web pages.  I'm trying to learn, but seriously thank you.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:43, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How's the Kimber?  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi, SoC, how do you find your Kimber pistol? Why'd you choose it over the Glock 20 when the latter has 15 rounds to the Kimber's 8? Do you use it for handgun hunting? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you mentioned that M1911s can be nice-looking, I was reminded of another model you may be interested in.  While bog-standard 1911s may not look much more than pragmatically pretty, try [http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Perfect10/Perfect10.php this] for one that could take the cake for looks (and sticker shock). A review can be found [http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/gun-product-reviews/4870-sti-perfect-10-10mm-auto-longslide-2011-review.html here] as well. For some reason, STI International is also offering collector's guns that have a gold finish that is actually Titanium Nitride for more durability than actual gold. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 19:31, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:A Friend of mine recently sold his Springfield Operator and got a Kimber and he says it's better than the Springfield, which is not a shock. Kimber's 1911 pistols are the some of the best made 1911's you can buy. That is if you have a lot of money to spare. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 20:01, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I already had a Glock 29 10mm and i am still planning on building a Glock 20 in a 6&amp;quot; barrel...but the 1911 is a beautiful gun that is super accurate and fits in the hand better then any 20sf could. Plus I love kimbers and already had one in a .45 acp, but i am a HUGE fan of the 10mm...God bless Jeff Cooper!--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:55, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, if you like the M1911 platform that much, you could always save up for the STI Perfect 10 I linked to. So if you're going to get a Glock 20, is it going to be the short frame version? Are you going to accessorize your new Glock 20, with a laser/weaponlight combo perhaps? Is your Glock 29 a short-frame version as well? If you like the 10mm round, are you going to help others see its benefits? It's one of the more underappreciated &amp;quot;combat-practical&amp;quot; cartridges around, after all. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:13, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Not that there is any thing wrong with the STI, but when i am knowledgable enough to start my 1911 custom build up, i will mostly likely start with a Caspian lower because i can get one already set up for a ramped barrel that the 10mm needs.  The Glock 20 build up will be a bit easier, I'm going to purchase a standered Glock m20 lower (because then I can purchase a &amp;quot;SBR&amp;quot; tax stamp and put a stock on it, for they do not make one for the &amp;quot;SF&amp;quot; frame yet), then use lone wolf 6&amp;quot; slide and lone wolf 6&amp;quot; ported barrel for the upper.  No laser or light because i would like to use it for hunting and...well...thats just not legal sadly, but i will most likely use a Burris FastFire II as the sight system. I went with the full frame on the Glock 29 ( it just felt better, plus i got the extension plug for the palm, they dont make one for the SF). Since i live in the mountains of Montana were Grizzlies and Mountain Lions are a common problem and i do a variety of hunting the 10mm gives me the best possible ballistic out of a semi-auto pistol.  I use a 200gr solid that can reach 1347F.P.S out of even the shortest of my barrels.  When i am hiking or hunting i use the 15rd mag that gives me a full grip in the wilderness and then afterwards when i hit up a place to eat in town i put in the 10rd mag and it becomes easily concealable (which i have a permit for). The 1911's on the other hand I only carry and conceal on special occasions or when i am doing little gunsmithing projects at work.  As for the &amp;quot;combat-practical&amp;quot;...I have only had a few time in which I have had run ins with meth-heads or mountain folk in the wilderness...all in which i have never had to draw my weapon...even with the tensions i felt in those events...i still don't think the Combat aspect would imply to me.  The incounters were all within ten feet and never have there been more then three of them...so...no reloading, no need for high capacity...and there would have been no real need to aim...just point and shot kind of situations...like i said they never ascalate to that level but it would have been controlable either way.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:06, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hmm, I hope you can post up some pictures on your forum when you get that piece constructed.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:36, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 32 H&amp;amp;R ==&lt;br /&gt;
:How hard is it to find where you live--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 23:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not alot of selection as far as ammo, but since I am a gun dealer in a store with a good amount of buying power, i keep alot of Federal 85gr hp in stock.  I keep that one because personally i dont want to shot lead out of my barrel and i just perfer a jacket. I also have a guy that does my reloading for my 10mm and i got him starting a load for the 32 h&amp;amp;R, so when thats done i will be shooting a 100gr HP from hornady.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 14:42, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I was only asking because when I asked My dad to pick me up some 32 S&amp;amp;W longs for my Colt Police Positive, He picked up 32 H&amp;amp;R magnum, he really is getting old.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 00:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Spades_of_Columbia&amp;diff=323037</id>
		<title>User talk:Spades of Columbia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Spades_of_Columbia&amp;diff=323037"/>
		<updated>2010-09-03T00:14:09Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Faster ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi if you don't mind ive added some info and a pic to your &amp;quot;Faster&amp;quot; page&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank God you did...truth be told I spend alot of time around guns and i watch as many movie as i can, but i am completely ignorant of computer uploading and coding and whatever other term you can think of dealing with web pages.  I'm trying to learn, but seriously thank you.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:43, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How's the Kimber?  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi, SoC, how do you find your Kimber pistol? Why'd you choose it over the Glock 20 when the latter has 15 rounds to the Kimber's 8? Do you use it for handgun hunting? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you mentioned that M1911s can be nice-looking, I was reminded of another model you may be interested in.  While bog-standard 1911s may not look much more than pragmatically pretty, try [http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Perfect10/Perfect10.php this] for one that could take the cake for looks (and sticker shock). A review can be found [http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/gun-product-reviews/4870-sti-perfect-10-10mm-auto-longslide-2011-review.html here] as well. For some reason, STI International is also offering collector's guns that have a gold finish that is actually Titanium Nitride for more durability than actual gold. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 19:31, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:A Friend of mine recently sold his Springfield Operator and got a Kimber and he says it's better than the Springfield, which is not a shock. Kimber's 1911 pistols are the some of the best made 1911's you can buy. That is if you have a lot of money to spare. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 20:01, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I already had a Glock 29 10mm and i am still planning on building a Glock 20 in a 6&amp;quot; barrel...but the 1911 is a beautiful gun that is super accurate and fits in the hand better then any 20sf could. Plus I love kimbers and already had one in a .45 acp, but i am a HUGE fan of the 10mm...God bless Jeff Cooper!--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:55, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, if you like the M1911 platform that much, you could always save up for the STI Perfect 10 I linked to. So if you're going to get a Glock 20, is it going to be the short frame version? Are you going to accessorize your new Glock 20, with a laser/weaponlight combo perhaps? Is your Glock 29 a short-frame version as well? If you like the 10mm round, are you going to help others see its benefits? It's one of the more underappreciated &amp;quot;combat-practical&amp;quot; cartridges around, after all. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:13, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Not that there is any thing wrong with the STI, but when i am knowledgable enough to start my 1911 custom build up, i will mostly likely start with a Caspian lower because i can get one already set up for a ramped barrel that the 10mm needs.  The Glock 20 build up will be a bit easier, I'm going to purchase a standered Glock m20 lower (because then I can purchase a &amp;quot;SBR&amp;quot; tax stamp and put a stock on it, for they do not make one for the &amp;quot;SF&amp;quot; frame yet), then use lone wolf 6&amp;quot; slide and lone wolf 6&amp;quot; ported barrel for the upper.  No laser or light because i would like to use it for hunting and...well...thats just not legal sadly, but i will most likely use a Burris FastFire II as the sight system. I went with the full frame on the Glock 29 ( it just felt better, plus i got the extension plug for the palm, they dont make one for the SF). Since i live in the mountains of Montana were Grizzlies and Mountain Lions are a common problem and i do a variety of hunting the 10mm gives me the best possible ballistic out of a semi-auto pistol.  I use a 200gr solid that can reach 1347F.P.S out of even the shortest of my barrels.  When i am hiking or hunting i use the 15rd mag that gives me a full grip in the wilderness and then afterwards when i hit up a place to eat in town i put in the 10rd mag and it becomes easily concealable (which i have a permit for). The 1911's on the other hand I only carry and conceal on special occasions or when i am doing little gunsmithing projects at work.  As for the &amp;quot;combat-practical&amp;quot;...I have only had a few time in which I have had run ins with meth-heads or mountain folk in the wilderness...all in which i have never had to draw my weapon...even with the tensions i felt in those events...i still don't think the Combat aspect would imply to me.  The incounters were all within ten feet and never have there been more then three of them...so...no reloading, no need for high capacity...and there would have been no real need to aim...just point and shot kind of situations...like i said they never ascalate to that level but it would have been controlable either way.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:06, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hmm, I hope you can post up some pictures on your forum when you get that piece constructed.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:36, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 32 H&amp;amp;R ==&lt;br /&gt;
:How hard is it to find where you live--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 23:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not alot of selection as far as ammo, but since I am a gun dealer in a store with a good amount of buying power, i keep alot of Federal 85gr hp in stock.  I keep that one because personally i dont want to shot lead out of my barrel and i just perfer a jacket. I also have a guy that does my reloading for my 10mm and i got him starting a load for the 32 h&amp;amp;R, so when thats done i will be shooting a 100gr HP from hornady.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 14:42, 2 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I was only asking because when I asked My dad to pick me up some 32 S&amp;amp;W longs for my Colt Police Positive, He picked up 32 H&amp;amp;R magnum, he really is getting old.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Spades_of_Columbia&amp;diff=322353</id>
		<title>User talk:Spades of Columbia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Spades_of_Columbia&amp;diff=322353"/>
		<updated>2010-09-01T23:50:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Faster ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hi if you don't mind ive added some info and a pic to your &amp;quot;Faster&amp;quot; page&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank God you did...truth be told I spend alot of time around guns and i watch as many movie as i can, but i am completely ignorant of computer uploading and coding and whatever other term you can think of dealing with web pages.  I'm trying to learn, but seriously thank you.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 01:43, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How's the Kimber?  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi, SoC, how do you find your Kimber pistol? Why'd you choose it over the Glock 20 when the latter has 15 rounds to the Kimber's 8? Do you use it for handgun hunting? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you mentioned that M1911s can be nice-looking, I was reminded of another model you may be interested in.  While bog-standard 1911s may not look much more than pragmatically pretty, try [http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Perfect10/Perfect10.php this] for one that could take the cake for looks (and sticker shock). A review can be found [http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/gun-product-reviews/4870-sti-perfect-10-10mm-auto-longslide-2011-review.html here] as well. For some reason, STI International is also offering collector's guns that have a gold finish that is actually Titanium Nitride for more durability than actual gold. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 19:31, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:A Friend of mine recently sold his Springfield Operator and got a Kimber and he says it's better than the Springfield, which is not a shock. Kimber's 1911 pistols are the some of the best made 1911's you can buy. That is if you have a lot of money to spare. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 20:01, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I already had a Glock 29 10mm and i am still planning on building a Glock 20 in a 6&amp;quot; barrel...but the 1911 is a beautiful gun that is super accurate and fits in the hand better then any 20sf could. Plus I love kimbers and already had one in a .45 acp, but i am a HUGE fan of the 10mm...God bless Jeff Cooper!--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:55, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, if you like the M1911 platform that much, you could always save up for the STI Perfect 10 I linked to. So if you're going to get a Glock 20, is it going to be the short frame version? Are you going to accessorize your new Glock 20, with a laser/weaponlight combo perhaps? Is your Glock 29 a short-frame version as well? If you like the 10mm round, are you going to help others see its benefits? It's one of the more underappreciated &amp;quot;combat-practical&amp;quot; cartridges around, after all. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:13, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Not that there is any thing wrong with the STI, but when i am knowledgable enough to start my 1911 custom build up, i will mostly likely start with a Caspian lower because i can get one already set up for a ramped barrel that the 10mm needs.  The Glock 20 build up will be a bit easier, I'm going to purchase a standered Glock m20 lower (because then I can purchase a &amp;quot;SBR&amp;quot; tax stamp and put a stock on it, for they do not make one for the &amp;quot;SF&amp;quot; frame yet), then use lone wolf 6&amp;quot; slide and lone wolf 6&amp;quot; ported barrel for the upper.  No laser or light because i would like to use it for hunting and...well...thats just not legal sadly, but i will most likely use a Burris FastFire II as the sight system. I went with the full frame on the Glock 29 ( it just felt better, plus i got the extension plug for the palm, they dont make one for the SF). Since i live in the mountains of Montana were Grizzlies and Mountain Lions are a common problem and i do a variety of hunting the 10mm gives me the best possible ballistic out of a semi-auto pistol.  I use a 200gr solid that can reach 1347F.P.S out of even the shortest of my barrels.  When i am hiking or hunting i use the 15rd mag that gives me a full grip in the wilderness and then afterwards when i hit up a place to eat in town i put in the 10rd mag and it becomes easily concealable (which i have a permit for). The 1911's on the other hand I only carry and conceal on special occasions or when i am doing little gunsmithing projects at work.  As for the &amp;quot;combat-practical&amp;quot;...I have only had a few time in which I have had run ins with meth-heads or mountain folk in the wilderness...all in which i have never had to draw my weapon...even with the tensions i felt in those events...i still don't think the Combat aspect would imply to me.  The incounters were all within ten feet and never have there been more then three of them...so...no reloading, no need for high capacity...and there would have been no real need to aim...just point and shot kind of situations...like i said they never ascalate to that level but it would have been controlable either way.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 20:06, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hmm, I hope you can post up some pictures on your forum when you get that piece constructed.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:36, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== 32 H&amp;amp;R ==&lt;br /&gt;
:How hard is it to find where you live--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 23:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=322294</id>
		<title>Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=322294"/>
		<updated>2010-09-01T21:14:05Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;This game has a cold war look to it&lt;br /&gt;
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==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's an SMG.&lt;br /&gt;
:: '''LoL.'''&lt;br /&gt;
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; means its a Carbine. The &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; means it has a folding stock. --ZEER&lt;br /&gt;
:::: No :) &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; ( Sklopnyj - somehing like &amp;quot;foldable&amp;quot;) means folding stock and &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)&lt;br /&gt;
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An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.&lt;br /&gt;
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At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.&lt;br /&gt;
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Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way).  That's why people call them SMGs.  The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example).  It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle.  So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.&lt;br /&gt;
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==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY&lt;br /&gt;
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I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as &amp;quot;a machine gun&amp;quot; and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as &amp;quot;submachine guns&amp;quot;. [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::nerd rage&lt;br /&gt;
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is &amp;quot;SOG got it before everyone else&amp;quot;. That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==zombie mode==&lt;br /&gt;
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will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.&lt;br /&gt;
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully not copying spec ops.....&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it's aliens.&lt;br /&gt;
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Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==&lt;br /&gt;
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Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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==add m16 to page==&lt;br /&gt;
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It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in  ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.&lt;br /&gt;
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Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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m16 has been removed, only &amp;quot;ar-15 carbine&amp;quot; is there.&lt;br /&gt;
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==='''M16 is in.'''===&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.&lt;br /&gt;
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Weapons that would make sense==&lt;br /&gt;
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 39&lt;br /&gt;
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AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM&lt;br /&gt;
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-Add any other weapons that would make sense&lt;br /&gt;
:M3A1 &amp;quot;Grease Gun&amp;quot;/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 &amp;quot;Death Machine&amp;quot;(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).&lt;br /&gt;
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Dirty Harry's Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ? &lt;br /&gt;
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It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help. &lt;br /&gt;
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::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.&lt;br /&gt;
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''''''Some good proofs''' :''' &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&amp;amp;sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' ) &lt;br /&gt;
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''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''&lt;br /&gt;
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==Should be==&lt;br /&gt;
There should be M72 LAWs,  M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!&lt;br /&gt;
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Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and &amp;quot;smell of napalm in the morning&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==E3==&lt;br /&gt;
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Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 . &lt;br /&gt;
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== Not an AK-47 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You appear to have missed the point of this website...&lt;br /&gt;
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::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.&lt;br /&gt;
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AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Degtyarov ==&lt;br /&gt;
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.&lt;br /&gt;
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.&lt;br /&gt;
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==ummmm==&lt;br /&gt;
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.&lt;br /&gt;
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===&lt;br /&gt;
== AR-10 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10&lt;br /&gt;
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
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Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Un-identified guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]&lt;br /&gt;
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RPK ==&lt;br /&gt;
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From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*&lt;br /&gt;
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No. Look on that &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.&lt;br /&gt;
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Moved &amp;quot;Unknown LMG&amp;quot; stuff to the RPK-74 section.  Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.&lt;br /&gt;
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It says &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; on the slide.&lt;br /&gt;
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The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG&lt;br /&gt;
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== good decision ==&lt;br /&gt;
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As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.&lt;br /&gt;
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.&lt;br /&gt;
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Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.&lt;br /&gt;
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.  &lt;br /&gt;
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.&lt;br /&gt;
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say &amp;quot;hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?&amp;quot; And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying &amp;quot;3RD PERSON&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Play&amp;quot; screen ?&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.&lt;br /&gt;
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion&amp;quot;. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!!   THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.&lt;br /&gt;
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy.   [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say &amp;quot;Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em&amp;quot;, instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== MP5k ==&lt;br /&gt;
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You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?&lt;br /&gt;
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.&lt;br /&gt;
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You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D&lt;br /&gt;
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun&lt;br /&gt;
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside &amp;quot;the looks&amp;quot;?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war&amp;quot;...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat&lt;br /&gt;
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Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?&lt;br /&gt;
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Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?&amp;quot; Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.&lt;br /&gt;
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.&lt;br /&gt;
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You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM.  SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to.  Could they have carried a prototype MP5K?  Sure!  Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time.  Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.&lt;br /&gt;
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver.  Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced.  The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type.  The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177.  Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''&lt;br /&gt;
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:::No, not at all.  My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver.  Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their &amp;quot;balanced&amp;quot; and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.&lt;br /&gt;
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:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: &amp;quot;The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail.&amp;quot; Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.&lt;br /&gt;
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The model 656 looked like this: &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:model 656.jpg]] &lt;br /&gt;
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It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed. &lt;br /&gt;
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)&lt;br /&gt;
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Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Complaints ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say &amp;quot;They should have done better research!&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;They don't know anything about history!&amp;quot;, but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.&lt;br /&gt;
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*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam.  As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella.  Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive&lt;br /&gt;
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too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the &amp;quot;story&amp;quot;. If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***&lt;br /&gt;
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, it doesnt have to be &amp;quot;interactive history lesson&amp;quot; but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''&lt;br /&gt;
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As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
(UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.&lt;br /&gt;
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG &amp;amp; Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm&lt;br /&gt;
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Unknown ==&lt;br /&gt;
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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== Carcano M91/38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen &amp;quot;Lee Harvey Oswald&amp;quot; on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 and XM177 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Valment m78 == &lt;br /&gt;
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Damn straight.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those &amp;quot;cool&amp;quot; and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Prototypes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, &amp;lt;quote&amp;gt;which no one outside the team will ever get to see&amp;lt;/quote&amp;gt;. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.&lt;br /&gt;
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.&lt;br /&gt;
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.)  --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into &amp;quot;anything goes&amp;quot; territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M14==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. They'll Probably put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really  wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.&lt;br /&gt;
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== AUG sans grip ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the &amp;quot;finger guard.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the&lt;br /&gt;
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2. &lt;br /&gt;
=== Bullpup guns ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OXM article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- It was inspired by the book &amp;quot;SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos,&amp;quot; by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1275440842&amp;amp;sr=8-1] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- At least from their description, the &amp;quot;WMD&amp;quot; level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M202 FLASH is confirmed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M1911s with &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; etched on them also have tally marks on them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- They mention a co-op feature that &amp;quot;appears to be a successor&amp;quot; to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Regarding anachronistic guns, &amp;quot;'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) &amp;quot;The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement.&amp;quot; Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !&lt;br /&gt;
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Cool&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RC planes instead of predator missiles?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Document from viral site ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over at the CoD wiki I found this &amp;quot;document&amp;quot; from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as &amp;quot;very early prototype weapon; not in production&amp;quot;. It also mentions the [[G11]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and also the delicious China Lake Launcher&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&amp;amp;K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&amp;amp;K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power&lt;br /&gt;
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== M202 FLASH ==&lt;br /&gt;
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?&lt;br /&gt;
::The reference specifically said &amp;quot;M202.&amp;quot; We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled &amp;quot;M202&amp;quot; in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information.  --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
Here is what it shoots&lt;br /&gt;
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[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Not being able to go past vietnam?==&lt;br /&gt;
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What is this crap I hear about treyarch  LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two &amp;quot;creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio.&amp;quot; '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval.&amp;quot;'''&lt;br /&gt;
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer&lt;br /&gt;
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to stay on topic, how would they define &amp;quot;distant future?&amp;quot; Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:DOC10.jpg]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Still a little chance ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 on magazine cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.&lt;br /&gt;
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bothering you that much?&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.&lt;br /&gt;
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The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....&lt;br /&gt;
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vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true&lt;br /&gt;
:That could be multiplayer screens&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==&lt;br /&gt;
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All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!! &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators!  (video game maker logic))&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:'''nerd'''&lt;br /&gt;
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At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the &amp;quot;it's supposed to be a prototype&amp;quot; line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)&lt;br /&gt;
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of &amp;quot;SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars&amp;quot; by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]])  fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snake ==&lt;br /&gt;
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.&lt;br /&gt;
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== .357 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It is a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Grenade Launcher ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it &amp;quot;Grenade launcher.&amp;quot; It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...&lt;br /&gt;
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think&lt;br /&gt;
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.&lt;br /&gt;
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It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS-12 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...&lt;br /&gt;
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Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!&lt;br /&gt;
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...&lt;br /&gt;
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At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;AR&amp;quot; Sling ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.&lt;br /&gt;
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[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Bad Feeling ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch.  Are they perfect?  No..but now a days they're better than IW.&lt;br /&gt;
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I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.&lt;br /&gt;
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Everyone here talking shit about IW?  You're a bunch of idiots.  IW makes far better games.  I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far.  This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).&lt;br /&gt;
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to &amp;quot;It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game.&amp;quot;[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is&lt;br /&gt;
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IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact.  MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features.  Was multiplayer a bit buggy?  Yeah, for around a month.  Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW?  That game was garbage.  It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned.  The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now let's talk about Treyarch.  Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series?  Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops.  I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series.  CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'.  Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job.  What does that record suggest their next game will be like?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2.  They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer.  The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Goofs and screw-ups ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking  name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it. &lt;br /&gt;
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and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.&lt;br /&gt;
::For your information I am actually 12.&lt;br /&gt;
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Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a &amp;quot;TOP SECRET&amp;quot; excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.&lt;br /&gt;
-One Man Army&lt;br /&gt;
-Danger Close M203s&lt;br /&gt;
-Commando&lt;br /&gt;
-The Spawn system&lt;br /&gt;
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpriced map packs&lt;br /&gt;
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang&lt;br /&gt;
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo&lt;br /&gt;
-boosters galore&lt;br /&gt;
-10 Prestige hack lobbies&lt;br /&gt;
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage&lt;br /&gt;
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So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's &amp;quot;Black ops&amp;quot; doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians &amp;amp; Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole &amp;quot;prototype&amp;quot; B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)&lt;br /&gt;
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of &amp;quot;what players want&amp;quot;, more a case of Treyarch saying &amp;quot;we think we know what players want&amp;quot;. This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::&amp;quot;At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.&amp;quot; My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.&lt;br /&gt;
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like &amp;quot;How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!&amp;quot; Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]&lt;br /&gt;
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup&lt;br /&gt;
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One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as &amp;quot;fuck ups&amp;quot; in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T&lt;br /&gt;
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:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I never really got that mindset &amp;quot;It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it&amp;quot;. Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I dont see MW2 as &amp;quot;noob friendly&amp;quot;, just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing. &lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing &amp;quot;Helicopter Inbound&amp;quot;, then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. &amp;quot;noob tubers&amp;quot; really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.&lt;br /&gt;
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I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.&lt;br /&gt;
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You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Linked to World at War ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot; [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot;&amp;quot; What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling &amp;quot;FIRE THE LAW&amp;quot; in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Any links to zombies?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2,&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:&lt;br /&gt;
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the &amp;quot;SOG got it first&amp;quot; excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is what I'm talkin about:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:&lt;br /&gt;
*The H&amp;amp;K SMGI &amp;amp; II&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=103:smg-i-a-ii&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=102:mp5-pip&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== G11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion  --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The G11 was in Syphon Filter 2 [[Special:Contributions/98.237.107.108|98.237.107.108]] 02:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== XM214 Microgun ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance?  I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== A more plausable fictional AR-15  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I associate the CAR-15 with the XM177 style flash hider and the Commando to me is the M733 for it's short barrel [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New weapons! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From left to right, starting at the top:&amp;lt;br ?&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-M16A2 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MAC-10 w/ supressor&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-AUG&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Mini-Uzi&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-L85&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Scorpion SA Vz 61&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
-AKs-74u&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Another Skorpion&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-SPAS-12&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MP5 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry it's a bit blurry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: That pic is here too :) Check out &amp;quot;extras&amp;quot; section in article :D&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored &amp;quot;Iranian Hostage Situation&amp;quot; level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)&lt;br /&gt;
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope its just &amp;quot;iranian embassy raid inspired&amp;quot;, not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube &amp;quot;HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1&amp;quot; It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like &amp;quot;Elephant&amp;amp;Rhino look alike&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;M16 looks like AK 47&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said &amp;quot;a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!&amp;quot; even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Or not.&lt;br /&gt;
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Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?&lt;br /&gt;
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It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because &amp;quot;It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life&amp;quot;. I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)&lt;br /&gt;
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So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them.  Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]&lt;br /&gt;
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While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Anyone Take Notice?==&lt;br /&gt;
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During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said &amp;quot;Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New Trailer ==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54&lt;br /&gt;
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Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying.  Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question.  They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse.  Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Unless they've gone down the &amp;quot;we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun&amp;quot; route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, &amp;quot;What the hell...&amp;quot; But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor&lt;br /&gt;
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The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified &amp;quot;near future&amp;quot; kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, &amp;quot;Modern Warfare.&amp;quot; Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of &amp;quot;Modern Warfare back in time&amp;quot; deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?&lt;br /&gt;
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.&lt;br /&gt;
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]&lt;br /&gt;
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== The COD wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the &amp;quot;gun nerds&amp;quot; on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at &amp;quot;Black Ops&amp;quot; history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined  like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm over at Cod wiki right now.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Those are definitely explosive tips==&lt;br /&gt;
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The attachment on this picture:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.&lt;br /&gt;
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.&lt;br /&gt;
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png&lt;br /&gt;
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==A nice detail==&lt;br /&gt;
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ballistic knife==&lt;br /&gt;
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.&lt;br /&gt;
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No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snub Nose ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python&lt;br /&gt;
Confirm?&lt;br /&gt;
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I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as &amp;quot;Aparently they did no research&amp;quot; and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.&lt;br /&gt;
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dragunov? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?&lt;br /&gt;
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watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the action diver had one, too&lt;br /&gt;
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== R/C car ==&lt;br /&gt;
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For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?&lt;br /&gt;
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Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Retarded gimmick is retarded.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Some prototypes photos ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ? &lt;br /&gt;
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For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]&lt;br /&gt;
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Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.&lt;br /&gt;
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And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ? &lt;br /&gt;
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg] &lt;br /&gt;
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RPG-7==&lt;br /&gt;
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png&lt;br /&gt;
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Can someone put that pic on the page in &amp;quot;RPG-7&amp;quot; section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7&lt;br /&gt;
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==Time period and Guns==&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The &amp;quot;but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!&amp;quot; argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era.  --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.&lt;br /&gt;
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== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''&lt;br /&gt;
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.&lt;br /&gt;
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.&lt;br /&gt;
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well in Metal Gear Solid 3, they got away with having an XM16E1 with a 4 selector capability [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New pics ==&lt;br /&gt;
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IGN has some new BO pics:&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
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Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?&lt;br /&gt;
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...&lt;br /&gt;
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.&lt;br /&gt;
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than  Russians with SPAS.&lt;br /&gt;
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other &amp;quot;new&amp;quot; screens are from SP :)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...&lt;br /&gt;
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the &amp;quot;Inception level.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I think they did it again... ==&lt;br /&gt;
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.&lt;br /&gt;
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I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==&lt;br /&gt;
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil &amp;amp; http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.&lt;br /&gt;
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about &amp;quot;Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS&amp;quot; and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:KS is yet another anachronism.&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another &amp;quot;American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War&amp;quot; mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]&lt;br /&gt;
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......&lt;br /&gt;
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I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had &amp;quot;CCCP&amp;quot; written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.&lt;br /&gt;
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
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== AI Arctic Warfare ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.&lt;br /&gt;
::: &amp;quot;The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''.&amp;quot; If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.&lt;br /&gt;
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Don't forget that most of those &amp;quot;Jew guns&amp;quot; could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those &amp;quot;kosher&amp;quot; weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs. &lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::::::Name a few?&lt;br /&gt;
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:My facts about guns are only based on REAL LIFE information, never games or movies. (by the guy who started the AW discussion)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Should make an account and sign your posts, easier that way.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You should also get me some &amp;quot;real life&amp;quot; statistics that PROVE beyond a doubt that Israeli designs are &amp;quot;inferior.&amp;quot; -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Are you a hater like that guy who hates the Beretta 92? Oh and thanks FIVETWOSEVEN, I will consider making a account. :)&lt;br /&gt;
::Not at all, I happen to love the Beretta 92, I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. I just don't like when people make biased statements like that without giving a reason to back it up. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:44, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I was talking about a guy on the Beretta 92 discussion page that hates the 92 for no real reason. and what IS wrong with the Uzi, Jericho, and the Tavor? What &amp;quot;facts&amp;quot; do you have that make these weapons &amp;quot;inferior&amp;quot;? Do you hate Israel or something? (note, I am not trying to rude, a jerk, or a wise-ass) The Uzi is more or less the SMG equivalent of the AK, it is simple, reliable, and cheap like the AK, the Jericho is, from what I heard, is a very good all-steel handgun, and the Tavor is a great step forward for Israel's assault weapon technologies. If I'm wrong, please tell me and prove it with real facts.&lt;br /&gt;
::::Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have misread something, cuz it seems like that post was directed at me. I agree 100% with every point you just made there. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 18:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I honestly think you two have gotten confused and started arguing with each other when you both support the same position. This is why it would be much easier if everyone had an account. As to my opinion on the topic, I love Israeli made weapons. You're right about the Uzi family. It's extremely rugged, though not terribly accurate (But you can always do worse). As to the Tavor and the Jericho? I've only fired the Jericho once, but it handled great, though I still prefer the 92FS to it. And the Tavor, I love the Tavor. Honestly, if I was going into combat and I was given the choice, I'd take the TAR-21 over an M4A1 any day. I mean, the M4A1 is a great gun, but I just have a thing for bullpups. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I'm really sorry about that, my mistake, I thought you were the same guy who said &amp;quot;I don't see nothing good about those &amp;quot;kosher&amp;quot; weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nah, I think he ran away under our combined onslaught. xD Anywho, if it isn't signed as K, it isn't me. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 14:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SKS ==&lt;br /&gt;
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.&lt;br /&gt;
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh I was wrong then, never have payed too much attention to the SKS, also doesn't help that the most common seems to be a Yugo.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Its Romanian WASR there. So why not yugoslavian SKS ? Oh, and i think they will put it there with M203 or GP-25 on it.&lt;br /&gt;
::Tats not WASR but just a retarded AK-74&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, i think they just googled &amp;quot;AK&amp;quot; and modelled first gun they have seen.&lt;br /&gt;
::::Or some crappy airsoft gun. I can't wait till a game is made where EVERY ASPECT of firearms is 100% CORRECT and not tacticool.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Blame the internet then, not the 3d artists or the company. It's hard enough to find a high enough resolution orthographic picture of the gun you want to model. Sometimes you have to make do with a similar model. 3d artists just can't model a gun out of thin air, you need references to use as a backdrop during modeling, and let's face it, the artist is going to use the high res sideview of an AK-74 over a low res slightly off sideview of a genuine AK-47. As for airsoft, take note that airsoft companies often provide a perfectly aligned sideview of their guns, which works great for modeling. I'd take a 1000x700 picture of an airsoft M4 over a 400x300 picture of the genuine gun. And if you were a 3d modeler, you would too.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 02:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::omgz they could check this site. Or... photograph a real deal when they were recording gun sounds. And if they for some f-ing reason left off muzzle break from AK74 that would be a fail&lt;br /&gt;
:::Or maybe get a real gun, don't even have to guy one, just rent or borrow one from someone that owns one. That isn't so hard is it? They did that with Lord of War with about 3,000 CZ rifles.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 14:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Lord of War was a feature film, starring Nicholas Cage. I'm sure they had a lot more money than the average game does. Why pay extra money on something that isn't integral to the quality or enjoyment of a game? Besides, airsoft guns are relatively cheap, and a number of companies sell full metal near exact(and exact in some cases) copies of the real weapons. But ultimately, if you can't look beyond an Mp5's lack of a paddle release, you are playing games for all the wrong reasons. And really, no muzzle brake is fail? Seriously, learn to live with it. Also, most of the pictures on this site are too small for modeling accurately off of. Some are large enough, but most aren't. And not all games record real guns in person for their sounds, and some that do simply use similar models or completely different guns.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 21:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::You do realize that this game is gonna rake in millions. They can't rent or buy a $400 AK 47?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::This is not exclusive to this game. You said you wanted to see ''any'' game that got everything right. Also, Treyarch is based in Santa Monica, ''California''. If you knew anything about Californian gun laws, you would realize how difficult it would be for them to get their hands on a genuine Ak47. Besides, the 3d artists don't really get to decide how all the company's money is spent. And I doubt a higher up would care enough(for somewhat good reason) to waste a thousand bucks on a post-ban Kalashnikov that is not the correct model anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Once again, they could either rent or borrow one. Doesn't even have to be an actual Russian AK 47. It would be fine if it was a Yugo, Bulgarian or whatever, they are similar enough to not be a problem. The point is going alittle further and not basing the model off a crappy airsoft gun or the wrong picture.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The always present problem with game designers is that they forget the extreme details on a gun and when they do CGI modeling, they always make mistakes and forget somethings. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think you missed a word.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
== AS VAL ==&lt;br /&gt;
: I think it would be cool if they put the AS VAL in as a weapon of the Soviet Forces&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AKS-74U? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where in Sam Hill did you guys get that from? I never saw anyone holding one in the Teaser. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's on that wall of guns in the insight video, and theres apparently a pic at Call of Duty Wiki with someone holding it from the teaser. If you ask me, its still not 100% confirming it --[[User:FirearmsNewbie|FirearmsNewbie]] 02:19, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the image they're saying is an AKS-74U [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:AK-74uBO.png]. Not very convincing, if you ask me, but I wouldn't put it past Treyarch as they've already failed epically by the looks of things so far. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Definatly is a short AK something.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, it looks like a short AK, but we can't be sure exactly what it is. Hell, it could be a full length AK at a weird camera angle. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
There are so many AK variants out there they can pull out of their asses, why another AK-74U? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because I doubt they know any others and they don't want to confuse players.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Knowing&amp;diff=319843</id>
		<title>Talk:Knowing</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Knowing&amp;diff=319843"/>
		<updated>2010-08-27T21:52:36Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==No clue==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just spend one hour browsing the ~2600  [[:Category:Gun_Image|gun images]], the closest match was the S&amp;amp;W 66 Snub, but I have a few doubts :&lt;br /&gt;
:::So how fun was that? ;)  Actually I'm quite proud of the Gun images IMFDB has. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:16, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Absolutely loves the wiki, the idea, the mindset, and the pics are great. I became instantly a great great fan. Already spent 3 hours non stop after my first step inside ! [[User:Gunignorant|Gunignorant]] 19:36, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The grip is quite different&lt;br /&gt;
* There is something below the ejector rod that gives a much more wider profile (see in first picture)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I would call it a S&amp;amp;W 629 Snub with Goncalo Alves Grips [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:15, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Thanks. I'll try to find more info on that and i'll update the page. You think I should change now the 629 model even without a proper article ? [[User:Gunignorant|Gunignorant]] 19:36, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The grip is quite different&amp;quot; It has combat grips on it, is the reason why. Below is L-frame (Model 586) which the grips will interchange with the K-frame (Model 66). As long as the butts are the same, round butt (shown) or square butt. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:32, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:586 snubbie.jpg|thumb|none|400px|586 with 2.5&amp;quot; barrel]]&lt;br /&gt;
== National guard? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If I am remembering correctly, at the end of movie at the part where he is driving down the crowded city streets there are about ten or so national guard soldiers and a humvee but i couldnt tell what they were carrying.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=319509</id>
		<title>Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=319509"/>
		<updated>2010-08-27T01:56:38Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;This game has a cold war look to it&lt;br /&gt;
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==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's an SMG.&lt;br /&gt;
:: '''LoL.'''&lt;br /&gt;
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; means its a Carbine. The &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; means it has a folding stock. --ZEER&lt;br /&gt;
:::: No :) &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; ( Sklopnyj - somehing like &amp;quot;foldable&amp;quot;) means folding stock and &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way).  That's why people call them SMGs.  The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example).  It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle.  So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as &amp;quot;a machine gun&amp;quot; and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as &amp;quot;submachine guns&amp;quot;. [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::nerd rage&lt;br /&gt;
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is &amp;quot;SOG got it before everyone else&amp;quot;. That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==zombie mode==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.&lt;br /&gt;
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully not copying spec ops.....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maybe it's aliens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==&lt;br /&gt;
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Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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==add m16 to page==&lt;br /&gt;
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It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in  ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.&lt;br /&gt;
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Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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m16 has been removed, only &amp;quot;ar-15 carbine&amp;quot; is there.&lt;br /&gt;
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==='''M16 is in.'''===&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.&lt;br /&gt;
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Weapons that would make sense==&lt;br /&gt;
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 39&lt;br /&gt;
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AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM&lt;br /&gt;
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-Add any other weapons that would make sense&lt;br /&gt;
:M3A1 &amp;quot;Grease Gun&amp;quot;/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 &amp;quot;Death Machine&amp;quot;(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).&lt;br /&gt;
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Dirty Harry's Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ? &lt;br /&gt;
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It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help. &lt;br /&gt;
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::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.&lt;br /&gt;
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''''''Some good proofs''' :''' &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&amp;amp;sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' ) &lt;br /&gt;
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''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''&lt;br /&gt;
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==Should be==&lt;br /&gt;
There should be M72 LAWs,  M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!&lt;br /&gt;
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Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and &amp;quot;smell of napalm in the morning&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==E3==&lt;br /&gt;
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Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 . &lt;br /&gt;
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== Not an AK-47 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You appear to have missed the point of this website...&lt;br /&gt;
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::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.&lt;br /&gt;
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AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Degtyarov ==&lt;br /&gt;
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.&lt;br /&gt;
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.&lt;br /&gt;
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==ummmm==&lt;br /&gt;
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.&lt;br /&gt;
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===&lt;br /&gt;
== AR-10 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10&lt;br /&gt;
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
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Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Un-identified guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]&lt;br /&gt;
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RPK ==&lt;br /&gt;
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From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*&lt;br /&gt;
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No. Look on that &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.&lt;br /&gt;
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Moved &amp;quot;Unknown LMG&amp;quot; stuff to the RPK-74 section.  Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.&lt;br /&gt;
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It says &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; on the slide.&lt;br /&gt;
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The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG&lt;br /&gt;
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== good decision ==&lt;br /&gt;
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As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.&lt;br /&gt;
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.&lt;br /&gt;
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Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.&lt;br /&gt;
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.  &lt;br /&gt;
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.&lt;br /&gt;
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say &amp;quot;hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?&amp;quot; And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying &amp;quot;3RD PERSON&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Play&amp;quot; screen ?&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.&lt;br /&gt;
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion&amp;quot;. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!!   THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.&lt;br /&gt;
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy.   [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say &amp;quot;Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em&amp;quot;, instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== MP5k ==&lt;br /&gt;
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You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?&lt;br /&gt;
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.&lt;br /&gt;
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You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D&lt;br /&gt;
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun&lt;br /&gt;
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside &amp;quot;the looks&amp;quot;?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war&amp;quot;...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat&lt;br /&gt;
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Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?&lt;br /&gt;
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Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?&amp;quot; Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.&lt;br /&gt;
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.&lt;br /&gt;
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You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM.  SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to.  Could they have carried a prototype MP5K?  Sure!  Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time.  Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.&lt;br /&gt;
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver.  Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced.  The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type.  The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177.  Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''&lt;br /&gt;
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:::No, not at all.  My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver.  Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their &amp;quot;balanced&amp;quot; and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.&lt;br /&gt;
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:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: &amp;quot;The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail.&amp;quot; Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.&lt;br /&gt;
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The model 656 looked like this: &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:model 656.jpg]] &lt;br /&gt;
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It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed. &lt;br /&gt;
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)&lt;br /&gt;
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Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Complaints ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say &amp;quot;They should have done better research!&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;They don't know anything about history!&amp;quot;, but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.&lt;br /&gt;
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*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam.  As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella.  Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive&lt;br /&gt;
Cache-Control: max-age=0&lt;br /&gt;
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too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the &amp;quot;story&amp;quot;. If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***&lt;br /&gt;
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, it doesnt have to be &amp;quot;interactive history lesson&amp;quot; but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''&lt;br /&gt;
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As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
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Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.&lt;br /&gt;
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG &amp;amp; Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm&lt;br /&gt;
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Unknown ==&lt;br /&gt;
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it&lt;br /&gt;
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moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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== Carcano M91/38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen &amp;quot;Lee Harvey Oswald&amp;quot; on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 and XM177 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns&lt;br /&gt;
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What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web&lt;br /&gt;
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* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Valment m78 == &lt;br /&gt;
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.&lt;br /&gt;
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Damn straight.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those &amp;quot;cool&amp;quot; and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Prototypes ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, &amp;lt;quote&amp;gt;which no one outside the team will ever get to see&amp;lt;/quote&amp;gt;. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.&lt;br /&gt;
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.&lt;br /&gt;
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.)  --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into &amp;quot;anything goes&amp;quot; territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M14==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. They'll Probably put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really  wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AUG sans grip ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the &amp;quot;finger guard.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the&lt;br /&gt;
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2. &lt;br /&gt;
=== Bullpup guns ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OXM article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- It was inspired by the book &amp;quot;SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos,&amp;quot; by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1275440842&amp;amp;sr=8-1] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- At least from their description, the &amp;quot;WMD&amp;quot; level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M202 FLASH is confirmed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M1911s with &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; etched on them also have tally marks on them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- They mention a co-op feature that &amp;quot;appears to be a successor&amp;quot; to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Regarding anachronistic guns, &amp;quot;'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) &amp;quot;The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement.&amp;quot; Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !&lt;br /&gt;
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Cool&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RC planes instead of predator missiles?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Document from viral site ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over at the CoD wiki I found this &amp;quot;document&amp;quot; from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as &amp;quot;very early prototype weapon; not in production&amp;quot;. It also mentions the [[G11]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and also the delicious China Lake Launcher&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&amp;amp;K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&amp;amp;K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M202 FLASH ==&lt;br /&gt;
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?&lt;br /&gt;
::The reference specifically said &amp;quot;M202.&amp;quot; We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled &amp;quot;M202&amp;quot; in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information.  --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
Here is what it shoots&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Not being able to go past vietnam?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is this crap I hear about treyarch  LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two &amp;quot;creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio.&amp;quot; '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval.&amp;quot;'''&lt;br /&gt;
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer&lt;br /&gt;
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to stay on topic, how would they define &amp;quot;distant future?&amp;quot; Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:DOC10.jpg]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Still a little chance ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M16 on magazine cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.&lt;br /&gt;
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bothering you that much?&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true&lt;br /&gt;
:That could be multiplayer screens&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!! &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators!  (video game maker logic))&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:'''nerd'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the &amp;quot;it's supposed to be a prototype&amp;quot; line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)&lt;br /&gt;
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of &amp;quot;SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars&amp;quot; by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]])  fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Snake ==&lt;br /&gt;
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.&lt;br /&gt;
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== .357 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It is a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Grenade Launcher ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it &amp;quot;Grenade launcher.&amp;quot; It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...&lt;br /&gt;
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think&lt;br /&gt;
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.&lt;br /&gt;
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It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS-12 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...&lt;br /&gt;
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Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!&lt;br /&gt;
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...&lt;br /&gt;
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At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;AR&amp;quot; Sling ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.&lt;br /&gt;
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[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks. &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bad Feeling ==&lt;br /&gt;
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After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch.  Are they perfect?  No..but now a days they're better than IW.&lt;br /&gt;
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I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.&lt;br /&gt;
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Everyone here talking shit about IW?  You're a bunch of idiots.  IW makes far better games.  I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far.  This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).&lt;br /&gt;
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to &amp;quot;It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game.&amp;quot;[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is&lt;br /&gt;
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IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact.  MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features.  Was multiplayer a bit buggy?  Yeah, for around a month.  Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW?  That game was garbage.  It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned.  The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now let's talk about Treyarch.  Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series?  Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops.  I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series.  CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'.  Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job.  What does that record suggest their next game will be like?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2.  They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer.  The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Goofs and screw-ups ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking  name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it. &lt;br /&gt;
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and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.&lt;br /&gt;
::For your information I am actually 12.&lt;br /&gt;
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Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a &amp;quot;TOP SECRET&amp;quot; excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.&lt;br /&gt;
-One Man Army&lt;br /&gt;
-Danger Close M203s&lt;br /&gt;
-Commando&lt;br /&gt;
-The Spawn system&lt;br /&gt;
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpriced map packs&lt;br /&gt;
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang&lt;br /&gt;
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo&lt;br /&gt;
-boosters galore&lt;br /&gt;
-10 Prestige hack lobbies&lt;br /&gt;
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage&lt;br /&gt;
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So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's &amp;quot;Black ops&amp;quot; doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians &amp;amp; Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole &amp;quot;prototype&amp;quot; B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)&lt;br /&gt;
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of &amp;quot;what players want&amp;quot;, more a case of Treyarch saying &amp;quot;we think we know what players want&amp;quot;. This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::&amp;quot;At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.&amp;quot; My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.&lt;br /&gt;
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like &amp;quot;How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!&amp;quot; Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]&lt;br /&gt;
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup&lt;br /&gt;
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One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as &amp;quot;fuck ups&amp;quot; in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T&lt;br /&gt;
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:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I never really got that mindset &amp;quot;It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it&amp;quot;. Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I dont see MW2 as &amp;quot;noob friendly&amp;quot;, just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing. &lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing &amp;quot;Helicopter Inbound&amp;quot;, then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. &amp;quot;noob tubers&amp;quot; really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.&lt;br /&gt;
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I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.&lt;br /&gt;
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You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Linked to World at War ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot; [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot;&amp;quot; What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling &amp;quot;FIRE THE LAW&amp;quot; in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Any links to zombies?&lt;br /&gt;
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== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2,&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:&lt;br /&gt;
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the &amp;quot;SOG got it first&amp;quot; excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This is what I'm talkin about:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:&lt;br /&gt;
*The H&amp;amp;K SMGI &amp;amp; II&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=103:smg-i-a-ii&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=102:mp5-pip&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== G11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion  --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== XM214 Microgun ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance?  I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A more plausable fictional AR-15  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New weapons! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From left to right, starting at the top:&amp;lt;br ?&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-M16A2 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MAC-10 w/ supressor&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-AUG&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Mini-Uzi&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-L85&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Scorpion SA Vz 61&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
-AKs-74u&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Another Skorpion&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-SPAS-12&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MP5 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry it's a bit blurry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That pic is here too :) Check out &amp;quot;extras&amp;quot; section in article :D&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored &amp;quot;Iranian Hostage Situation&amp;quot; level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)&lt;br /&gt;
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope its just &amp;quot;iranian embassy raid inspired&amp;quot;, not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube &amp;quot;HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1&amp;quot; It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like &amp;quot;Elephant&amp;amp;Rhino look alike&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;M16 looks like AK 47&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said &amp;quot;a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!&amp;quot; even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Or not.&lt;br /&gt;
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Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?&lt;br /&gt;
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It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because &amp;quot;It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life&amp;quot;. I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them.  Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]&lt;br /&gt;
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While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Anyone Take Notice?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said &amp;quot;Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New Trailer ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying.  Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question.  They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse.  Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Unless they've gone down the &amp;quot;we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun&amp;quot; route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, &amp;quot;What the hell...&amp;quot; But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor&lt;br /&gt;
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The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified &amp;quot;near future&amp;quot; kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, &amp;quot;Modern Warfare.&amp;quot; Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of &amp;quot;Modern Warfare back in time&amp;quot; deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?&lt;br /&gt;
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.&lt;br /&gt;
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]&lt;br /&gt;
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== The COD wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the &amp;quot;gun nerds&amp;quot; on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at &amp;quot;Black Ops&amp;quot; history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined  like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm over at Cod wiki right now.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Those are definitely explosive tips==&lt;br /&gt;
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The attachment on this picture:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.&lt;br /&gt;
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.&lt;br /&gt;
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png&lt;br /&gt;
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==A nice detail==&lt;br /&gt;
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ballistic knife==&lt;br /&gt;
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.&lt;br /&gt;
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No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snub Nose ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python&lt;br /&gt;
Confirm?&lt;br /&gt;
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I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as &amp;quot;Aparently they did no research&amp;quot; and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.&lt;br /&gt;
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dragunov? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?&lt;br /&gt;
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watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the action diver had one, too&lt;br /&gt;
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== R/C car ==&lt;br /&gt;
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For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?&lt;br /&gt;
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Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Retarded gimmick is retarded.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Some prototypes photos ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ? &lt;br /&gt;
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For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]&lt;br /&gt;
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Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.&lt;br /&gt;
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And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ? &lt;br /&gt;
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg] &lt;br /&gt;
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RPG-7==&lt;br /&gt;
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png&lt;br /&gt;
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Can someone put that pic on the page in &amp;quot;RPG-7&amp;quot; section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7&lt;br /&gt;
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==Time period and Guns==&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The &amp;quot;but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!&amp;quot; argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era.  --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.&lt;br /&gt;
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== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''&lt;br /&gt;
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.&lt;br /&gt;
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.&lt;br /&gt;
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New pics ==&lt;br /&gt;
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IGN has some new BO pics:&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
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Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?&lt;br /&gt;
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...&lt;br /&gt;
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.&lt;br /&gt;
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than  Russians with SPAS.&lt;br /&gt;
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other &amp;quot;new&amp;quot; screens are from SP :)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...&lt;br /&gt;
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the &amp;quot;Inception level.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I think they did it again... ==&lt;br /&gt;
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.&lt;br /&gt;
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I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==&lt;br /&gt;
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil &amp;amp; http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.&lt;br /&gt;
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about &amp;quot;Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS&amp;quot; and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:KS is yet another anachronism.&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another &amp;quot;American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War&amp;quot; mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]&lt;br /&gt;
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had &amp;quot;CCCP&amp;quot; written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.&lt;br /&gt;
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
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== AI Arctic Warfare ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.&lt;br /&gt;
::: &amp;quot;The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''.&amp;quot; If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.&lt;br /&gt;
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Don't forget that most of those &amp;quot;Jew guns&amp;quot; could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those &amp;quot;kosher&amp;quot; weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs. &lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::The WA2000 is a expensive and rare gun. I believe that 200 something of them were made. There are many better guns in all aspects than the WA2000. Its not just that its too delicate, its expensive, bulky, and rare. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::::::Name a few?&lt;br /&gt;
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SKS ==&lt;br /&gt;
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.&lt;br /&gt;
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::If they have the correct grenade launcher on it, probably will work just like it did in WaW. Firing a round through the grenade.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Actually, only the yugoslavian version of the SKS had the grenade launcher. Not the Russian or Chinese version that would appear in game if it is put in.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 01:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=319413</id>
		<title>Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=319413"/>
		<updated>2010-08-26T22:06:40Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;This game has a cold war look to it&lt;br /&gt;
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==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's an SMG.&lt;br /&gt;
:: '''LoL.'''&lt;br /&gt;
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; means its a Carbine. The &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; means it has a folding stock. --ZEER&lt;br /&gt;
:::: No :) &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; ( Sklopnyj - somehing like &amp;quot;foldable&amp;quot;) means folding stock and &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)&lt;br /&gt;
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An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.&lt;br /&gt;
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At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.&lt;br /&gt;
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Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way).  That's why people call them SMGs.  The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example).  It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle.  So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.&lt;br /&gt;
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==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY&lt;br /&gt;
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I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as &amp;quot;a machine gun&amp;quot; and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as &amp;quot;submachine guns&amp;quot;. [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::nerd rage&lt;br /&gt;
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is &amp;quot;SOG got it before everyone else&amp;quot;. That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==zombie mode==&lt;br /&gt;
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will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.&lt;br /&gt;
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully not copying spec ops.....&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it's aliens.&lt;br /&gt;
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Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==&lt;br /&gt;
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Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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==add m16 to page==&lt;br /&gt;
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It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in  ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.&lt;br /&gt;
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Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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m16 has been removed, only &amp;quot;ar-15 carbine&amp;quot; is there.&lt;br /&gt;
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==='''M16 is in.'''===&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.&lt;br /&gt;
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Weapons that would make sense==&lt;br /&gt;
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 39&lt;br /&gt;
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AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM&lt;br /&gt;
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-Add any other weapons that would make sense&lt;br /&gt;
:M3A1 &amp;quot;Grease Gun&amp;quot;/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 &amp;quot;Death Machine&amp;quot;(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).&lt;br /&gt;
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Dirty Harry's Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ? &lt;br /&gt;
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It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help. &lt;br /&gt;
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::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.&lt;br /&gt;
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''''''Some good proofs''' :''' &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&amp;amp;sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' ) &lt;br /&gt;
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''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''&lt;br /&gt;
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==Should be==&lt;br /&gt;
There should be M72 LAWs,  M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!&lt;br /&gt;
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Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and &amp;quot;smell of napalm in the morning&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==E3==&lt;br /&gt;
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Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 . &lt;br /&gt;
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== Not an AK-47 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You appear to have missed the point of this website...&lt;br /&gt;
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::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.&lt;br /&gt;
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AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Degtyarov ==&lt;br /&gt;
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.&lt;br /&gt;
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.&lt;br /&gt;
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==ummmm==&lt;br /&gt;
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.&lt;br /&gt;
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===&lt;br /&gt;
== AR-10 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10&lt;br /&gt;
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
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Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Un-identified guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]&lt;br /&gt;
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RPK ==&lt;br /&gt;
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From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*&lt;br /&gt;
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No. Look on that &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.&lt;br /&gt;
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Moved &amp;quot;Unknown LMG&amp;quot; stuff to the RPK-74 section.  Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.&lt;br /&gt;
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It says &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; on the slide.&lt;br /&gt;
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The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG&lt;br /&gt;
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== good decision ==&lt;br /&gt;
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As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.&lt;br /&gt;
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.&lt;br /&gt;
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Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.&lt;br /&gt;
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.  &lt;br /&gt;
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.&lt;br /&gt;
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say &amp;quot;hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?&amp;quot; And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying &amp;quot;3RD PERSON&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Play&amp;quot; screen ?&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.&lt;br /&gt;
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion&amp;quot;. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!!   THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.&lt;br /&gt;
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy.   [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say &amp;quot;Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em&amp;quot;, instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== MP5k ==&lt;br /&gt;
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You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?&lt;br /&gt;
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.&lt;br /&gt;
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You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D&lt;br /&gt;
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun&lt;br /&gt;
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside &amp;quot;the looks&amp;quot;?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war&amp;quot;...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat&lt;br /&gt;
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Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?&lt;br /&gt;
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Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?&amp;quot; Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.&lt;br /&gt;
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.&lt;br /&gt;
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You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM.  SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to.  Could they have carried a prototype MP5K?  Sure!  Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time.  Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.&lt;br /&gt;
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver.  Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced.  The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type.  The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177.  Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''&lt;br /&gt;
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:::No, not at all.  My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver.  Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their &amp;quot;balanced&amp;quot; and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.&lt;br /&gt;
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:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: &amp;quot;The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail.&amp;quot; Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.&lt;br /&gt;
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The model 656 looked like this: &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:model 656.jpg]] &lt;br /&gt;
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It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed. &lt;br /&gt;
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)&lt;br /&gt;
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Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Complaints ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say &amp;quot;They should have done better research!&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;They don't know anything about history!&amp;quot;, but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.&lt;br /&gt;
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*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam.  As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella.  Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive&lt;br /&gt;
Cache-Control: max-age=0&lt;br /&gt;
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too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the &amp;quot;story&amp;quot;. If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***&lt;br /&gt;
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, it doesnt have to be &amp;quot;interactive history lesson&amp;quot; but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''&lt;br /&gt;
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As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
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Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.&lt;br /&gt;
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG &amp;amp; Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm&lt;br /&gt;
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Unknown ==&lt;br /&gt;
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it&lt;br /&gt;
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moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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== Carcano M91/38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen &amp;quot;Lee Harvey Oswald&amp;quot; on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 and XM177 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns&lt;br /&gt;
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What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web&lt;br /&gt;
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* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Valment m78 == &lt;br /&gt;
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.&lt;br /&gt;
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Damn straight.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those &amp;quot;cool&amp;quot; and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Prototypes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, &amp;lt;quote&amp;gt;which no one outside the team will ever get to see&amp;lt;/quote&amp;gt;. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.&lt;br /&gt;
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.&lt;br /&gt;
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.)  --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into &amp;quot;anything goes&amp;quot; territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M14==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. They'll Probably put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really  wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AUG sans grip ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the &amp;quot;finger guard.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the&lt;br /&gt;
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2. &lt;br /&gt;
=== Bullpup guns ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OXM article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- It was inspired by the book &amp;quot;SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos,&amp;quot; by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1275440842&amp;amp;sr=8-1] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- At least from their description, the &amp;quot;WMD&amp;quot; level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M202 FLASH is confirmed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M1911s with &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; etched on them also have tally marks on them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- They mention a co-op feature that &amp;quot;appears to be a successor&amp;quot; to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Regarding anachronistic guns, &amp;quot;'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) &amp;quot;The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement.&amp;quot; Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !&lt;br /&gt;
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Cool&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RC planes instead of predator missiles?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Document from viral site ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over at the CoD wiki I found this &amp;quot;document&amp;quot; from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as &amp;quot;very early prototype weapon; not in production&amp;quot;. It also mentions the [[G11]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and also the delicious China Lake Launcher&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&amp;amp;K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&amp;amp;K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M202 FLASH ==&lt;br /&gt;
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?&lt;br /&gt;
::The reference specifically said &amp;quot;M202.&amp;quot; We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled &amp;quot;M202&amp;quot; in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information.  --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
Here is what it shoots&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Not being able to go past vietnam?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is this crap I hear about treyarch  LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two &amp;quot;creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio.&amp;quot; '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval.&amp;quot;'''&lt;br /&gt;
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer&lt;br /&gt;
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to stay on topic, how would they define &amp;quot;distant future?&amp;quot; Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:DOC10.jpg]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Still a little chance ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M16 on magazine cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.&lt;br /&gt;
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bothering you that much?&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true&lt;br /&gt;
:That could be multiplayer screens&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!! &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators!  (video game maker logic))&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:'''nerd'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the &amp;quot;it's supposed to be a prototype&amp;quot; line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)&lt;br /&gt;
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of &amp;quot;SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars&amp;quot; by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]])  fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snake ==&lt;br /&gt;
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.&lt;br /&gt;
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== .357 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It is a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Grenade Launcher ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it &amp;quot;Grenade launcher.&amp;quot; It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...&lt;br /&gt;
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think&lt;br /&gt;
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.&lt;br /&gt;
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It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS-12 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...&lt;br /&gt;
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Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!&lt;br /&gt;
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...&lt;br /&gt;
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At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;AR&amp;quot; Sling ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.&lt;br /&gt;
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[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks. &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bad Feeling ==&lt;br /&gt;
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After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch.  Are they perfect?  No..but now a days they're better than IW.&lt;br /&gt;
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I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.&lt;br /&gt;
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Everyone here talking shit about IW?  You're a bunch of idiots.  IW makes far better games.  I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far.  This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).&lt;br /&gt;
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to &amp;quot;It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game.&amp;quot;[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is&lt;br /&gt;
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IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact.  MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features.  Was multiplayer a bit buggy?  Yeah, for around a month.  Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW?  That game was garbage.  It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned.  The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now let's talk about Treyarch.  Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series?  Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops.  I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series.  CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'.  Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job.  What does that record suggest their next game will be like?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2.  They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer.  The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Goofs and screw-ups ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking  name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it. &lt;br /&gt;
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and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.&lt;br /&gt;
::For your information I am actually 12.&lt;br /&gt;
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Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a &amp;quot;TOP SECRET&amp;quot; excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.&lt;br /&gt;
-One Man Army&lt;br /&gt;
-Danger Close M203s&lt;br /&gt;
-Commando&lt;br /&gt;
-The Spawn system&lt;br /&gt;
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpriced map packs&lt;br /&gt;
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang&lt;br /&gt;
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo&lt;br /&gt;
-boosters galore&lt;br /&gt;
-10 Prestige hack lobbies&lt;br /&gt;
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage&lt;br /&gt;
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So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's &amp;quot;Black ops&amp;quot; doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians &amp;amp; Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole &amp;quot;prototype&amp;quot; B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)&lt;br /&gt;
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of &amp;quot;what players want&amp;quot;, more a case of Treyarch saying &amp;quot;we think we know what players want&amp;quot;. This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::&amp;quot;At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.&amp;quot; My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.&lt;br /&gt;
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like &amp;quot;How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!&amp;quot; Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]&lt;br /&gt;
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup&lt;br /&gt;
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One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as &amp;quot;fuck ups&amp;quot; in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T&lt;br /&gt;
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:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I never really got that mindset &amp;quot;It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it&amp;quot;. Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I dont see MW2 as &amp;quot;noob friendly&amp;quot;, just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing. &lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing &amp;quot;Helicopter Inbound&amp;quot;, then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. &amp;quot;noob tubers&amp;quot; really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.&lt;br /&gt;
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I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.&lt;br /&gt;
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You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Linked to World at War ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot; [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot;&amp;quot; What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling &amp;quot;FIRE THE LAW&amp;quot; in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Any links to zombies?&lt;br /&gt;
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== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2,&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:&lt;br /&gt;
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the &amp;quot;SOG got it first&amp;quot; excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This is what I'm talkin about:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:&lt;br /&gt;
*The H&amp;amp;K SMGI &amp;amp; II&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=103:smg-i-a-ii&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=102:mp5-pip&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== G11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion  --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== XM214 Microgun ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance?  I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A more plausable fictional AR-15  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New weapons! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From left to right, starting at the top:&amp;lt;br ?&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-M16A2 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MAC-10 w/ supressor&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-AUG&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Mini-Uzi&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-L85&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Scorpion SA Vz 61&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
-AKs-74u&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Another Skorpion&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-SPAS-12&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MP5 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry it's a bit blurry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That pic is here too :) Check out &amp;quot;extras&amp;quot; section in article :D&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored &amp;quot;Iranian Hostage Situation&amp;quot; level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)&lt;br /&gt;
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope its just &amp;quot;iranian embassy raid inspired&amp;quot;, not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube &amp;quot;HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1&amp;quot; It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like &amp;quot;Elephant&amp;amp;Rhino look alike&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;M16 looks like AK 47&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said &amp;quot;a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!&amp;quot; even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Or not.&lt;br /&gt;
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Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?&lt;br /&gt;
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It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because &amp;quot;It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life&amp;quot;. I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them.  Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]&lt;br /&gt;
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While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Anyone Take Notice?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said &amp;quot;Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New Trailer ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying.  Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question.  They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse.  Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Unless they've gone down the &amp;quot;we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun&amp;quot; route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, &amp;quot;What the hell...&amp;quot; But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor&lt;br /&gt;
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The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified &amp;quot;near future&amp;quot; kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, &amp;quot;Modern Warfare.&amp;quot; Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of &amp;quot;Modern Warfare back in time&amp;quot; deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?&lt;br /&gt;
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.&lt;br /&gt;
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]&lt;br /&gt;
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== The COD wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the &amp;quot;gun nerds&amp;quot; on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at &amp;quot;Black Ops&amp;quot; history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined  like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm over at Cod wiki right now.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Those are definitely explosive tips==&lt;br /&gt;
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The attachment on this picture:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.&lt;br /&gt;
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.&lt;br /&gt;
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png&lt;br /&gt;
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==A nice detail==&lt;br /&gt;
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ballistic knife==&lt;br /&gt;
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.&lt;br /&gt;
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No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snub Nose ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python&lt;br /&gt;
Confirm?&lt;br /&gt;
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I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as &amp;quot;Aparently they did no research&amp;quot; and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.&lt;br /&gt;
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dragunov? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?&lt;br /&gt;
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watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the action diver had one, too&lt;br /&gt;
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== R/C car ==&lt;br /&gt;
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For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?&lt;br /&gt;
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Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Retarded gimmick is retarded.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Some prototypes photos ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ? &lt;br /&gt;
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For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]&lt;br /&gt;
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Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.&lt;br /&gt;
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And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ? &lt;br /&gt;
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg] &lt;br /&gt;
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RPG-7==&lt;br /&gt;
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png&lt;br /&gt;
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Can someone put that pic on the page in &amp;quot;RPG-7&amp;quot; section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7&lt;br /&gt;
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==Time period and Guns==&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The &amp;quot;but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!&amp;quot; argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era.  --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.&lt;br /&gt;
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== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''&lt;br /&gt;
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.&lt;br /&gt;
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.&lt;br /&gt;
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New pics ==&lt;br /&gt;
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IGN has some new BO pics:&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
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Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?&lt;br /&gt;
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...&lt;br /&gt;
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.&lt;br /&gt;
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than  Russians with SPAS.&lt;br /&gt;
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other &amp;quot;new&amp;quot; screens are from SP :)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...&lt;br /&gt;
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the &amp;quot;Inception level.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I think they did it again... ==&lt;br /&gt;
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.&lt;br /&gt;
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I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==&lt;br /&gt;
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil &amp;amp; http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.&lt;br /&gt;
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about &amp;quot;Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS&amp;quot; and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:KS is yet another anachronism.&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another &amp;quot;American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War&amp;quot; mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]&lt;br /&gt;
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......&lt;br /&gt;
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I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had &amp;quot;CCCP&amp;quot; written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.&lt;br /&gt;
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AI Arctic Warfare ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.&lt;br /&gt;
::: &amp;quot;The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''.&amp;quot; If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.&lt;br /&gt;
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Don't forget that most of those &amp;quot;Jew guns&amp;quot; could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those &amp;quot;kosher&amp;quot; weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs. &lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::::::Name a few?&lt;br /&gt;
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SKS ==&lt;br /&gt;
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.&lt;br /&gt;
: I never really had my hopes up.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=319412</id>
		<title>Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=319412"/>
		<updated>2010-08-26T22:06:16Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;This game has a cold war look to it&lt;br /&gt;
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==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's an SMG.&lt;br /&gt;
:: '''LoL.'''&lt;br /&gt;
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; means its a Carbine. The &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; means it has a folding stock. --ZEER&lt;br /&gt;
:::: No :) &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; ( Sklopnyj - somehing like &amp;quot;foldable&amp;quot;) means folding stock and &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)&lt;br /&gt;
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An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.&lt;br /&gt;
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At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.&lt;br /&gt;
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Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way).  That's why people call them SMGs.  The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example).  It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle.  So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.&lt;br /&gt;
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==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY&lt;br /&gt;
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I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as &amp;quot;a machine gun&amp;quot; and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as &amp;quot;submachine guns&amp;quot;. [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::nerd rage&lt;br /&gt;
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is &amp;quot;SOG got it before everyone else&amp;quot;. That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==zombie mode==&lt;br /&gt;
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will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.&lt;br /&gt;
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully not copying spec ops.....&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it's aliens.&lt;br /&gt;
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Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==&lt;br /&gt;
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Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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==add m16 to page==&lt;br /&gt;
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It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in  ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.&lt;br /&gt;
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Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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m16 has been removed, only &amp;quot;ar-15 carbine&amp;quot; is there.&lt;br /&gt;
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==='''M16 is in.'''===&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.&lt;br /&gt;
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Weapons that would make sense==&lt;br /&gt;
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 39&lt;br /&gt;
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AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM&lt;br /&gt;
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-Add any other weapons that would make sense&lt;br /&gt;
:M3A1 &amp;quot;Grease Gun&amp;quot;/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 &amp;quot;Death Machine&amp;quot;(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).&lt;br /&gt;
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Dirty Harry's Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ? &lt;br /&gt;
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It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help. &lt;br /&gt;
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::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.&lt;br /&gt;
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''''''Some good proofs''' :''' &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&amp;amp;sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' ) &lt;br /&gt;
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''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''&lt;br /&gt;
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==Should be==&lt;br /&gt;
There should be M72 LAWs,  M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!&lt;br /&gt;
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Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and &amp;quot;smell of napalm in the morning&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==E3==&lt;br /&gt;
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Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 . &lt;br /&gt;
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== Not an AK-47 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You appear to have missed the point of this website...&lt;br /&gt;
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::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.&lt;br /&gt;
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AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Degtyarov ==&lt;br /&gt;
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.&lt;br /&gt;
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.&lt;br /&gt;
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==ummmm==&lt;br /&gt;
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.&lt;br /&gt;
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===&lt;br /&gt;
== AR-10 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10&lt;br /&gt;
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Un-identified guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]&lt;br /&gt;
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RPK ==&lt;br /&gt;
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From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*&lt;br /&gt;
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No. Look on that &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.&lt;br /&gt;
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Moved &amp;quot;Unknown LMG&amp;quot; stuff to the RPK-74 section.  Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.&lt;br /&gt;
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It says &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; on the slide.&lt;br /&gt;
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The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG&lt;br /&gt;
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== good decision ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.&lt;br /&gt;
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.&lt;br /&gt;
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Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.&lt;br /&gt;
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.  &lt;br /&gt;
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.&lt;br /&gt;
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say &amp;quot;hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?&amp;quot; And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying &amp;quot;3RD PERSON&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Play&amp;quot; screen ?&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.&lt;br /&gt;
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion&amp;quot;. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!!   THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.&lt;br /&gt;
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy.   [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say &amp;quot;Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em&amp;quot;, instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== MP5k ==&lt;br /&gt;
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You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?&lt;br /&gt;
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.&lt;br /&gt;
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You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D&lt;br /&gt;
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun&lt;br /&gt;
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside &amp;quot;the looks&amp;quot;?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war&amp;quot;...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat&lt;br /&gt;
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Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?&lt;br /&gt;
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Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?&amp;quot; Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.&lt;br /&gt;
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.&lt;br /&gt;
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You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM.  SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to.  Could they have carried a prototype MP5K?  Sure!  Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time.  Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.&lt;br /&gt;
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver.  Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced.  The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type.  The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177.  Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''&lt;br /&gt;
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:::No, not at all.  My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver.  Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their &amp;quot;balanced&amp;quot; and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.&lt;br /&gt;
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:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: &amp;quot;The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail.&amp;quot; Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.&lt;br /&gt;
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The model 656 looked like this: &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:model 656.jpg]] &lt;br /&gt;
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It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed. &lt;br /&gt;
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)&lt;br /&gt;
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Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Complaints ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say &amp;quot;They should have done better research!&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;They don't know anything about history!&amp;quot;, but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.&lt;br /&gt;
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*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam.  As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella.  Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive&lt;br /&gt;
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too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the &amp;quot;story&amp;quot;. If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***&lt;br /&gt;
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, it doesnt have to be &amp;quot;interactive history lesson&amp;quot; but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''&lt;br /&gt;
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As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
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Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.&lt;br /&gt;
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG &amp;amp; Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm&lt;br /&gt;
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Unknown ==&lt;br /&gt;
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it&lt;br /&gt;
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moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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== Carcano M91/38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen &amp;quot;Lee Harvey Oswald&amp;quot; on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 and XM177 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns&lt;br /&gt;
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What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web&lt;br /&gt;
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* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Valment m78 == &lt;br /&gt;
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.&lt;br /&gt;
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Damn straight.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those &amp;quot;cool&amp;quot; and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Prototypes ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, &amp;lt;quote&amp;gt;which no one outside the team will ever get to see&amp;lt;/quote&amp;gt;. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.&lt;br /&gt;
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.&lt;br /&gt;
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.)  --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into &amp;quot;anything goes&amp;quot; territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M14==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. They'll Probably put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really  wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.&lt;br /&gt;
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== AUG sans grip ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the &amp;quot;finger guard.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the&lt;br /&gt;
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2. &lt;br /&gt;
=== Bullpup guns ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OXM article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- It was inspired by the book &amp;quot;SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos,&amp;quot; by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1275440842&amp;amp;sr=8-1] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- At least from their description, the &amp;quot;WMD&amp;quot; level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M202 FLASH is confirmed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M1911s with &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; etched on them also have tally marks on them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- They mention a co-op feature that &amp;quot;appears to be a successor&amp;quot; to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Regarding anachronistic guns, &amp;quot;'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) &amp;quot;The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement.&amp;quot; Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !&lt;br /&gt;
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Cool&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RC planes instead of predator missiles?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Document from viral site ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over at the CoD wiki I found this &amp;quot;document&amp;quot; from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as &amp;quot;very early prototype weapon; not in production&amp;quot;. It also mentions the [[G11]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and also the delicious China Lake Launcher&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&amp;amp;K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&amp;amp;K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power&lt;br /&gt;
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== M202 FLASH ==&lt;br /&gt;
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?&lt;br /&gt;
::The reference specifically said &amp;quot;M202.&amp;quot; We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled &amp;quot;M202&amp;quot; in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information.  --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
Here is what it shoots&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Not being able to go past vietnam?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is this crap I hear about treyarch  LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two &amp;quot;creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio.&amp;quot; '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval.&amp;quot;'''&lt;br /&gt;
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer&lt;br /&gt;
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to stay on topic, how would they define &amp;quot;distant future?&amp;quot; Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:DOC10.jpg]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Still a little chance ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M16 on magazine cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.&lt;br /&gt;
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bothering you that much?&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true&lt;br /&gt;
:That could be multiplayer screens&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!! &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators!  (video game maker logic))&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:'''nerd'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the &amp;quot;it's supposed to be a prototype&amp;quot; line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)&lt;br /&gt;
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of &amp;quot;SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars&amp;quot; by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]])  fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Snake ==&lt;br /&gt;
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.&lt;br /&gt;
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== .357 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It is a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Grenade Launcher ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it &amp;quot;Grenade launcher.&amp;quot; It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...&lt;br /&gt;
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think&lt;br /&gt;
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.&lt;br /&gt;
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It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS-12 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...&lt;br /&gt;
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Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!&lt;br /&gt;
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...&lt;br /&gt;
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At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;AR&amp;quot; Sling ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.&lt;br /&gt;
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[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks. &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bad Feeling ==&lt;br /&gt;
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After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch.  Are they perfect?  No..but now a days they're better than IW.&lt;br /&gt;
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I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.&lt;br /&gt;
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Everyone here talking shit about IW?  You're a bunch of idiots.  IW makes far better games.  I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far.  This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).&lt;br /&gt;
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to &amp;quot;It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game.&amp;quot;[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is&lt;br /&gt;
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IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact.  MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features.  Was multiplayer a bit buggy?  Yeah, for around a month.  Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW?  That game was garbage.  It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned.  The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now let's talk about Treyarch.  Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series?  Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops.  I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series.  CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'.  Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job.  What does that record suggest their next game will be like?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2.  They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer.  The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Goofs and screw-ups ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking  name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it. &lt;br /&gt;
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and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.&lt;br /&gt;
::For your information I am actually 12.&lt;br /&gt;
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Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a &amp;quot;TOP SECRET&amp;quot; excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.&lt;br /&gt;
-One Man Army&lt;br /&gt;
-Danger Close M203s&lt;br /&gt;
-Commando&lt;br /&gt;
-The Spawn system&lt;br /&gt;
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpriced map packs&lt;br /&gt;
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang&lt;br /&gt;
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo&lt;br /&gt;
-boosters galore&lt;br /&gt;
-10 Prestige hack lobbies&lt;br /&gt;
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage&lt;br /&gt;
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So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's &amp;quot;Black ops&amp;quot; doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians &amp;amp; Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole &amp;quot;prototype&amp;quot; B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)&lt;br /&gt;
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of &amp;quot;what players want&amp;quot;, more a case of Treyarch saying &amp;quot;we think we know what players want&amp;quot;. This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::&amp;quot;At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.&amp;quot; My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.&lt;br /&gt;
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like &amp;quot;How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!&amp;quot; Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]&lt;br /&gt;
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup&lt;br /&gt;
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One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as &amp;quot;fuck ups&amp;quot; in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T&lt;br /&gt;
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:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I never really got that mindset &amp;quot;It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it&amp;quot;. Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I dont see MW2 as &amp;quot;noob friendly&amp;quot;, just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing. &lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing &amp;quot;Helicopter Inbound&amp;quot;, then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. &amp;quot;noob tubers&amp;quot; really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.&lt;br /&gt;
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I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.&lt;br /&gt;
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You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Linked to World at War ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot; [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot;&amp;quot; What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling &amp;quot;FIRE THE LAW&amp;quot; in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Any links to zombies?&lt;br /&gt;
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== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2,&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:&lt;br /&gt;
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the &amp;quot;SOG got it first&amp;quot; excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This is what I'm talkin about:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:&lt;br /&gt;
*The H&amp;amp;K SMGI &amp;amp; II&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=103:smg-i-a-ii&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=102:mp5-pip&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== G11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion  --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== XM214 Microgun ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance?  I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A more plausable fictional AR-15  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New weapons! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From left to right, starting at the top:&amp;lt;br ?&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-M16A2 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MAC-10 w/ supressor&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-AUG&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Mini-Uzi&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-L85&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Scorpion SA Vz 61&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
-AKs-74u&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Another Skorpion&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-SPAS-12&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MP5 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry it's a bit blurry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That pic is here too :) Check out &amp;quot;extras&amp;quot; section in article :D&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored &amp;quot;Iranian Hostage Situation&amp;quot; level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)&lt;br /&gt;
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope its just &amp;quot;iranian embassy raid inspired&amp;quot;, not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube &amp;quot;HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1&amp;quot; It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like &amp;quot;Elephant&amp;amp;Rhino look alike&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;M16 looks like AK 47&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said &amp;quot;a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!&amp;quot; even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Or not.&lt;br /&gt;
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Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?&lt;br /&gt;
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It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because &amp;quot;It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life&amp;quot;. I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them.  Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]&lt;br /&gt;
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While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Anyone Take Notice?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said &amp;quot;Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New Trailer ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying.  Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question.  They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse.  Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Unless they've gone down the &amp;quot;we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun&amp;quot; route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, &amp;quot;What the hell...&amp;quot; But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor&lt;br /&gt;
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The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified &amp;quot;near future&amp;quot; kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, &amp;quot;Modern Warfare.&amp;quot; Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of &amp;quot;Modern Warfare back in time&amp;quot; deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?&lt;br /&gt;
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.&lt;br /&gt;
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]&lt;br /&gt;
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== The COD wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the &amp;quot;gun nerds&amp;quot; on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at &amp;quot;Black Ops&amp;quot; history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined  like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm over at Cod wiki right now.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Those are definitely explosive tips==&lt;br /&gt;
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The attachment on this picture:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.&lt;br /&gt;
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.&lt;br /&gt;
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png&lt;br /&gt;
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==A nice detail==&lt;br /&gt;
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ballistic knife==&lt;br /&gt;
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.&lt;br /&gt;
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No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snub Nose ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python&lt;br /&gt;
Confirm?&lt;br /&gt;
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I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as &amp;quot;Aparently they did no research&amp;quot; and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.&lt;br /&gt;
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dragunov? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?&lt;br /&gt;
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watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the action diver had one, too&lt;br /&gt;
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== R/C car ==&lt;br /&gt;
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For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?&lt;br /&gt;
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Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Retarded gimmick is retarded.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Some prototypes photos ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ? &lt;br /&gt;
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For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]&lt;br /&gt;
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Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.&lt;br /&gt;
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And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ? &lt;br /&gt;
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg] &lt;br /&gt;
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RPG-7==&lt;br /&gt;
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png&lt;br /&gt;
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Can someone put that pic on the page in &amp;quot;RPG-7&amp;quot; section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7&lt;br /&gt;
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==Time period and Guns==&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The &amp;quot;but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!&amp;quot; argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era.  --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.&lt;br /&gt;
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== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''&lt;br /&gt;
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.&lt;br /&gt;
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.&lt;br /&gt;
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New pics ==&lt;br /&gt;
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IGN has some new BO pics:&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
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Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?&lt;br /&gt;
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...&lt;br /&gt;
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.&lt;br /&gt;
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than  Russians with SPAS.&lt;br /&gt;
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other &amp;quot;new&amp;quot; screens are from SP :)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...&lt;br /&gt;
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the &amp;quot;Inception level.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I think they did it again... ==&lt;br /&gt;
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.&lt;br /&gt;
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I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==&lt;br /&gt;
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil &amp;amp; http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.&lt;br /&gt;
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about &amp;quot;Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS&amp;quot; and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:KS is yet another anachronism.&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another &amp;quot;American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War&amp;quot; mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]&lt;br /&gt;
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had &amp;quot;CCCP&amp;quot; written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.&lt;br /&gt;
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AI Arctic Warfare ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.&lt;br /&gt;
::: &amp;quot;The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''.&amp;quot; If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.&lt;br /&gt;
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Don't forget that most of those &amp;quot;Jew guns&amp;quot; could rip you apart, or are you forgetting the Uzi family, Desert Eagle, Jericho, and Tavors? Not to mention what they can do in the hands of Mossad. Don't make the mistake of underestimating Israel, it'll likely be the last mistake you ever make.:D -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::I don't see nothing good about those &amp;quot;kosher&amp;quot; weapons. All of them are inferior compared to western (and even russian) designs. &lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Great the WA2000 again, That thing is ugly, rare, and definatly not a combat rifle. IW was playing too many hitman games when they thought of that. Treyarch copying it is just really stupid.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You gotta admit, Israels got some great weapons; this coming from a guy who loves German and Russian weapons, and also good ol' Browning's designs. :D Oh, and the big reason the WA2000 is not used in the Military is the same reason the awesome HK PSG1 is not used: it's too heavy and delicate for Military use.&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::::::Name a few?&lt;br /&gt;
Somebody needs to stop learning everything they know from movies and games. Open your eyes, or maybe you should just go back to your Klan rally. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SKS ==&lt;br /&gt;
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::'''It would make sense.''' This is only and biggest reason why they wont put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
::As much as I agree with you, I wouldn't get my hopes up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Even if they include it, would anyone use it? It doesn't do anything better than any other weapon you can get in the game. As much as I like the SKS in real life, I wouldn't use one if I had an AK or an AR-15 available. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Oh you silly people, even if they included an SKS they'd bastardize it with enough railmounts to drive a train on, and then make it have an attachable grenade launcher/katana/lasersight/ammo dispenser. :) -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 00:34, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well. It would be RAIL with SKS attached.&lt;br /&gt;
: I never really had my hopes.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 22:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=318878</id>
		<title>Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=318878"/>
		<updated>2010-08-25T21:17:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;This game has a cold war look to it&lt;br /&gt;
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==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's an SMG.&lt;br /&gt;
:: '''LoL.'''&lt;br /&gt;
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; means its a Carbine. The &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; means it has a folding stock. --ZEER&lt;br /&gt;
:::: No :) &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; ( Sklopnyj - somehing like &amp;quot;foldable&amp;quot;) means folding stock and &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)&lt;br /&gt;
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An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.&lt;br /&gt;
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At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.&lt;br /&gt;
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Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way).  That's why people call them SMGs.  The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example).  It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle.  So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.&lt;br /&gt;
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==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY&lt;br /&gt;
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I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as &amp;quot;a machine gun&amp;quot; and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as &amp;quot;submachine guns&amp;quot;. [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::nerd rage&lt;br /&gt;
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is &amp;quot;SOG got it before everyone else&amp;quot;. That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==zombie mode==&lt;br /&gt;
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will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.&lt;br /&gt;
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully not copying spec ops.....&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it's aliens.&lt;br /&gt;
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Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==&lt;br /&gt;
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Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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==add m16 to page==&lt;br /&gt;
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It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in  ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.&lt;br /&gt;
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Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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m16 has been removed, only &amp;quot;ar-15 carbine&amp;quot; is there.&lt;br /&gt;
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==='''M16 is in.'''===&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.&lt;br /&gt;
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Weapons that would make sense==&lt;br /&gt;
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 39&lt;br /&gt;
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AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM&lt;br /&gt;
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-Add any other weapons that would make sense&lt;br /&gt;
:M3A1 &amp;quot;Grease Gun&amp;quot;/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 &amp;quot;Death Machine&amp;quot;(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).&lt;br /&gt;
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Dirty Harry's Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ? &lt;br /&gt;
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It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help. &lt;br /&gt;
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::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.&lt;br /&gt;
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''''''Some good proofs''' :''' &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&amp;amp;sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' ) &lt;br /&gt;
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''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''&lt;br /&gt;
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==Should be==&lt;br /&gt;
There should be M72 LAWs,  M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!&lt;br /&gt;
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Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and &amp;quot;smell of napalm in the morning&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==E3==&lt;br /&gt;
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Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 . &lt;br /&gt;
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== Not an AK-47 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You appear to have missed the point of this website...&lt;br /&gt;
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::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.&lt;br /&gt;
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AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Degtyarov ==&lt;br /&gt;
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.&lt;br /&gt;
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.&lt;br /&gt;
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==ummmm==&lt;br /&gt;
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.&lt;br /&gt;
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===&lt;br /&gt;
== AR-10 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10&lt;br /&gt;
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Un-identified guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]&lt;br /&gt;
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RPK ==&lt;br /&gt;
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From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*&lt;br /&gt;
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No. Look on that &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.&lt;br /&gt;
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Moved &amp;quot;Unknown LMG&amp;quot; stuff to the RPK-74 section.  Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.&lt;br /&gt;
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It says &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; on the slide.&lt;br /&gt;
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The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG&lt;br /&gt;
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== good decision ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.&lt;br /&gt;
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.&lt;br /&gt;
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Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.&lt;br /&gt;
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.  &lt;br /&gt;
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.&lt;br /&gt;
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say &amp;quot;hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?&amp;quot; And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying &amp;quot;3RD PERSON&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Play&amp;quot; screen ?&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.&lt;br /&gt;
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion&amp;quot;. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!!   THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.&lt;br /&gt;
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy.   [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say &amp;quot;Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em&amp;quot;, instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== MP5k ==&lt;br /&gt;
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You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?&lt;br /&gt;
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.&lt;br /&gt;
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You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D&lt;br /&gt;
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun&lt;br /&gt;
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside &amp;quot;the looks&amp;quot;?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war&amp;quot;...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat&lt;br /&gt;
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Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?&lt;br /&gt;
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Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?&amp;quot; Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.&lt;br /&gt;
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.&lt;br /&gt;
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You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM.  SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to.  Could they have carried a prototype MP5K?  Sure!  Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time.  Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.&lt;br /&gt;
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver.  Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced.  The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type.  The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177.  Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''&lt;br /&gt;
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:::No, not at all.  My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver.  Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their &amp;quot;balanced&amp;quot; and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.&lt;br /&gt;
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:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: &amp;quot;The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail.&amp;quot; Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.&lt;br /&gt;
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The model 656 looked like this: &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:model 656.jpg]] &lt;br /&gt;
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It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed. &lt;br /&gt;
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)&lt;br /&gt;
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Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Complaints ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say &amp;quot;They should have done better research!&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;They don't know anything about history!&amp;quot;, but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.&lt;br /&gt;
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*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam.  As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella.  Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive&lt;br /&gt;
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too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the &amp;quot;story&amp;quot;. If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***&lt;br /&gt;
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, it doesnt have to be &amp;quot;interactive history lesson&amp;quot; but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''&lt;br /&gt;
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As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
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Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.&lt;br /&gt;
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG &amp;amp; Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm&lt;br /&gt;
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Unknown ==&lt;br /&gt;
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it&lt;br /&gt;
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moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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== Carcano M91/38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen &amp;quot;Lee Harvey Oswald&amp;quot; on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 and XM177 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns&lt;br /&gt;
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What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web&lt;br /&gt;
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* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Valment m78 == &lt;br /&gt;
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.&lt;br /&gt;
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Damn straight.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those &amp;quot;cool&amp;quot; and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Prototypes ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, &amp;lt;quote&amp;gt;which no one outside the team will ever get to see&amp;lt;/quote&amp;gt;. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.&lt;br /&gt;
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.&lt;br /&gt;
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.)  --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into &amp;quot;anything goes&amp;quot; territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M14==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. They'll Probably put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really  wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.&lt;br /&gt;
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== AUG sans grip ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the &amp;quot;finger guard.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the&lt;br /&gt;
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2. &lt;br /&gt;
=== Bullpup guns ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OXM article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- It was inspired by the book &amp;quot;SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos,&amp;quot; by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1275440842&amp;amp;sr=8-1] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- At least from their description, the &amp;quot;WMD&amp;quot; level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M202 FLASH is confirmed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M1911s with &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; etched on them also have tally marks on them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- They mention a co-op feature that &amp;quot;appears to be a successor&amp;quot; to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Regarding anachronistic guns, &amp;quot;'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) &amp;quot;The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement.&amp;quot; Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !&lt;br /&gt;
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Cool&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RC planes instead of predator missiles?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Document from viral site ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over at the CoD wiki I found this &amp;quot;document&amp;quot; from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as &amp;quot;very early prototype weapon; not in production&amp;quot;. It also mentions the [[G11]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and also the delicious China Lake Launcher&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&amp;amp;K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&amp;amp;K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power&lt;br /&gt;
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== M202 FLASH ==&lt;br /&gt;
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?&lt;br /&gt;
::The reference specifically said &amp;quot;M202.&amp;quot; We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled &amp;quot;M202&amp;quot; in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information.  --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
Here is what it shoots&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Not being able to go past vietnam?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is this crap I hear about treyarch  LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two &amp;quot;creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio.&amp;quot; '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval.&amp;quot;'''&lt;br /&gt;
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer&lt;br /&gt;
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to stay on topic, how would they define &amp;quot;distant future?&amp;quot; Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:DOC10.jpg]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Still a little chance ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M16 on magazine cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.&lt;br /&gt;
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bothering you that much?&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true&lt;br /&gt;
:That could be multiplayer screens&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!! &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators!  (video game maker logic))&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:'''nerd'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the &amp;quot;it's supposed to be a prototype&amp;quot; line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)&lt;br /&gt;
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of &amp;quot;SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars&amp;quot; by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]])  fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Snake ==&lt;br /&gt;
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.&lt;br /&gt;
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== .357 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It is a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Grenade Launcher ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it &amp;quot;Grenade launcher.&amp;quot; It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...&lt;br /&gt;
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think&lt;br /&gt;
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.&lt;br /&gt;
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It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS-12 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...&lt;br /&gt;
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Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!&lt;br /&gt;
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...&lt;br /&gt;
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At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;AR&amp;quot; Sling ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.&lt;br /&gt;
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[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks. &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bad Feeling ==&lt;br /&gt;
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After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch.  Are they perfect?  No..but now a days they're better than IW.&lt;br /&gt;
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I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.&lt;br /&gt;
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Everyone here talking shit about IW?  You're a bunch of idiots.  IW makes far better games.  I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far.  This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).&lt;br /&gt;
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to &amp;quot;It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game.&amp;quot;[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is&lt;br /&gt;
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IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact.  MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features.  Was multiplayer a bit buggy?  Yeah, for around a month.  Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW?  That game was garbage.  It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned.  The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now let's talk about Treyarch.  Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series?  Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops.  I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series.  CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'.  Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job.  What does that record suggest their next game will be like?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2.  They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer.  The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Goofs and screw-ups ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking  name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it. &lt;br /&gt;
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and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.&lt;br /&gt;
::For your information I am actually 12.&lt;br /&gt;
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Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a &amp;quot;TOP SECRET&amp;quot; excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.&lt;br /&gt;
-One Man Army&lt;br /&gt;
-Danger Close M203s&lt;br /&gt;
-Commando&lt;br /&gt;
-The Spawn system&lt;br /&gt;
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpriced map packs&lt;br /&gt;
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang&lt;br /&gt;
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo&lt;br /&gt;
-boosters galore&lt;br /&gt;
-10 Prestige hack lobbies&lt;br /&gt;
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage&lt;br /&gt;
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So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's &amp;quot;Black ops&amp;quot; doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians &amp;amp; Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole &amp;quot;prototype&amp;quot; B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)&lt;br /&gt;
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of &amp;quot;what players want&amp;quot;, more a case of Treyarch saying &amp;quot;we think we know what players want&amp;quot;. This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::&amp;quot;At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.&amp;quot; My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.&lt;br /&gt;
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like &amp;quot;How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!&amp;quot; Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]&lt;br /&gt;
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup&lt;br /&gt;
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One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as &amp;quot;fuck ups&amp;quot; in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T&lt;br /&gt;
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:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I never really got that mindset &amp;quot;It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it&amp;quot;. Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I dont see MW2 as &amp;quot;noob friendly&amp;quot;, just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing. &lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing &amp;quot;Helicopter Inbound&amp;quot;, then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. &amp;quot;noob tubers&amp;quot; really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.&lt;br /&gt;
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I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.&lt;br /&gt;
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You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Linked to World at War ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot; [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot;&amp;quot; What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling &amp;quot;FIRE THE LAW&amp;quot; in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Any links to zombies?&lt;br /&gt;
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== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2,&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:&lt;br /&gt;
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the &amp;quot;SOG got it first&amp;quot; excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This is what I'm talkin about:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:&lt;br /&gt;
*The H&amp;amp;K SMGI &amp;amp; II&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=103:smg-i-a-ii&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=102:mp5-pip&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== G11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion  --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== XM214 Microgun ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance?  I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A more plausable fictional AR-15  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New weapons! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From left to right, starting at the top:&amp;lt;br ?&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-M16A2 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MAC-10 w/ supressor&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-AUG&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Mini-Uzi&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-L85&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Scorpion SA Vz 61&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
-AKs-74u&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Another Skorpion&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-SPAS-12&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MP5 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry it's a bit blurry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That pic is here too :) Check out &amp;quot;extras&amp;quot; section in article :D&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored &amp;quot;Iranian Hostage Situation&amp;quot; level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)&lt;br /&gt;
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope its just &amp;quot;iranian embassy raid inspired&amp;quot;, not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube &amp;quot;HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1&amp;quot; It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like &amp;quot;Elephant&amp;amp;Rhino look alike&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;M16 looks like AK 47&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said &amp;quot;a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!&amp;quot; even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Or not.&lt;br /&gt;
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Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?&lt;br /&gt;
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It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because &amp;quot;It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life&amp;quot;. I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them.  Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]&lt;br /&gt;
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While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Anyone Take Notice?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said &amp;quot;Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New Trailer ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying.  Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question.  They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse.  Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Unless they've gone down the &amp;quot;we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun&amp;quot; route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, &amp;quot;What the hell...&amp;quot; But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor&lt;br /&gt;
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The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified &amp;quot;near future&amp;quot; kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, &amp;quot;Modern Warfare.&amp;quot; Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of &amp;quot;Modern Warfare back in time&amp;quot; deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?&lt;br /&gt;
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.&lt;br /&gt;
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]&lt;br /&gt;
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== The COD wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the &amp;quot;gun nerds&amp;quot; on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at &amp;quot;Black Ops&amp;quot; history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined  like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm over at Cod wiki right now.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Those are definitely explosive tips==&lt;br /&gt;
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The attachment on this picture:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.&lt;br /&gt;
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.&lt;br /&gt;
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png&lt;br /&gt;
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==A nice detail==&lt;br /&gt;
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ballistic knife==&lt;br /&gt;
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.&lt;br /&gt;
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No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snub Nose ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python&lt;br /&gt;
Confirm?&lt;br /&gt;
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I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as &amp;quot;Aparently they did no research&amp;quot; and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.&lt;br /&gt;
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dragunov? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?&lt;br /&gt;
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watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the action diver had one, too&lt;br /&gt;
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== R/C car ==&lt;br /&gt;
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For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?&lt;br /&gt;
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Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Retarded gimmick is retarded.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Some prototypes photos ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ? &lt;br /&gt;
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For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]&lt;br /&gt;
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Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.&lt;br /&gt;
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And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ? &lt;br /&gt;
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg] &lt;br /&gt;
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RPG-7==&lt;br /&gt;
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png&lt;br /&gt;
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Can someone put that pic on the page in &amp;quot;RPG-7&amp;quot; section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7&lt;br /&gt;
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==Time period and Guns==&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The &amp;quot;but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!&amp;quot; argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era.  --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.&lt;br /&gt;
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== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''&lt;br /&gt;
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.&lt;br /&gt;
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.&lt;br /&gt;
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New pics ==&lt;br /&gt;
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IGN has some new BO pics:&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
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Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?&lt;br /&gt;
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...&lt;br /&gt;
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.&lt;br /&gt;
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than  Russians with SPAS.&lt;br /&gt;
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other &amp;quot;new&amp;quot; screens are from SP :)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...&lt;br /&gt;
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the &amp;quot;Inception level.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I think they did it again... ==&lt;br /&gt;
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.&lt;br /&gt;
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I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==&lt;br /&gt;
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil &amp;amp; http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.&lt;br /&gt;
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about &amp;quot;Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS&amp;quot; and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:KS is yet another anachronism.&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another &amp;quot;American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War&amp;quot; mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]&lt;br /&gt;
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......&lt;br /&gt;
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I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had &amp;quot;CCCP&amp;quot; written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.&lt;br /&gt;
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
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== AI Arctic Warfare ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.&lt;br /&gt;
::: &amp;quot;The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''.&amp;quot; If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic. &lt;br /&gt;
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:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.&lt;br /&gt;
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
== SKS ==&lt;br /&gt;
:Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=318876</id>
		<title>Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&amp;diff=318876"/>
		<updated>2010-08-25T21:17:02Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;This game has a cold war look to it&lt;br /&gt;
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==AKS74U a RIFLE, not a SMG!!!!==&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its cool to put the 74u as a subgun these days, WTF. Its a Short carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's an SMG.&lt;br /&gt;
:: '''LoL.'''&lt;br /&gt;
::Traditionally, a carbine is defined as a shorter variant of a full sized rifle, which the AKS-74U clearly is. The definition is a bit looser today. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The AKS-74U is a Carbine, meaning shortened assault rifle. The AK-74 is the main model. The &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; means its a Carbine. The &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; means it has a folding stock. --ZEER&lt;br /&gt;
:::: No :) &amp;quot;S&amp;quot; ( Sklopnyj - somehing like &amp;quot;foldable&amp;quot;) means folding stock and &amp;quot;U&amp;quot; ( Ukrochenyj - Shortened ) means carbine :)&lt;br /&gt;
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An SMG is a machine gun shooting pistol caliber rounds, which 5.45x39mm doesn't qualify as.&lt;br /&gt;
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At least this time around they managed to get the name of the gun right. :/ [[Special:Contributions/124.148.203.141|124.148.203.141]] 07:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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A carbine is a short rifle, not a shortened assault rifle. I don't think the Mosin Nagant is a assault rifle or the M44 Carbine Mosin Nagant is a shortened assault rifle. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:From tactical point of view AKS-74U can be classified as SMG because of its size, as well as Mk 18, 9A-91, SR3 etc. But from a technical view all those are of course ultra-short assault rifles.&lt;br /&gt;
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Just to confuse everyone a bit more, Colt marketed the CAR-15 as a Sub-machine Gun. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The manufacturers are actively MARKETING these ultra short full auto 'carbines' to fulfill the submachine gun role in both military and law enforcement applications (both The M16 and the AKs have been sold this way).  That's why people call them SMGs.  The guns makers routinely muddy the waters as to the difference between the two definitions themselves. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 14:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Guys, IMFDB has always classified the AKS-74U as an assault rifle (see my recent page for the movie ''[[Icarus]]'', for example).  It may be used in the submachine gun role, but it is a derivative of the AK-74, which is unmistakably an assault rifle.  So I am going to defer to tradition here; we have to be consistent.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Also, bear in mind that the original AK-47 (the weapon we all think of as the classic assault rifle) was once thought of as a submachine gun in many of the armed forces that carried it (including the People's Liberation Army of China). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Video Games are ruining young minds. assault rifles shoot rifle rounds, not pistol rounds. put down the Modern Warfare and Bad Company.&lt;br /&gt;
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==IGN reviews the Call of Duty: Black Ops trailer==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292tCSCvFQY&lt;br /&gt;
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I wish that IGN would actually hire people who know what the hell they're talking about, instead of a couple of conceited pricks who think that the M4 Carbine assault rifle existed thirty years before it was produced. Not to mention the fact that they also erroneously refer to it as &amp;quot;a machine gun&amp;quot; and the Steyr AUG assault rifle series as &amp;quot;submachine guns&amp;quot;. [[Special:Contributions/203.59.108.117|203.59.108.117]] 11:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::nerd rage&lt;br /&gt;
: You gotta cut people some slack when it comes to these kind of things, why would we expect the guys who analyze video game trailers to know any more about guns than what they see in video games? Although calling the AUG a sub-machine gun was pretty boneheaded...[[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well even though the M4 Carbine wasn't around at the time. This game takes place during the Cold War, Vietnam, and the rest of the time period was not yet announced. You can't be sure when the game takes place until you see it, even though they announced an era, they didn't announce a time line. I'm sure you know that the M4 was made to replace the CAR-15, but the SOG got their hands on the newest weapons before they went into service. Which means, once the M4 was made, it would be sent straight to them. And besides, like he said, its just a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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::I love how the only defense for the anachronistic weapons is &amp;quot;SOG got it before everyone else&amp;quot;. That must mean that when US Army Rangers charged up onto Omaha Beach in 1944, they must have had M4A1s and M16A4s kitted out with EOTechs, Aimpoints, ACOGs, and PEQ-16 laser/light modules, right? Or when SEALs were hunting VC in the Mekong Delta, they must have had SCARs and M249s, right? Or how about the Battle of the Alamo, where Davy Crockett was picking off Mexican soldiers with an XM29 OICW, right? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yes the excuse is a bit weak, but don't you think that analogy is a bit extreme? So far the differences have only been maybe 2 or 3 years, not 20 or 30 like in your analogy. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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We've been having this reoccuring conversation that the AR-15 in the game should not exist at all. There might have been conceptual designs for a flat top AR-15 carbine, but it isn't like SOG could hold up a picture of an M4 that hasnt been thought up yet and tell some gunsmith to make this with flip up iron sights, which also shouldnt exist. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now I'm actually hearing rumors is that this is an alternate history themed game, so that would just debunk weapons that shouldn't exist if it is alternate history [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Oh I wasn't even thinking of the wierd AR-15 when I said that, I guess you're right. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:So what if ''Call of Duty: Black Ops'' takes place in an alternate timeline? ''Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater'' and ''Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker'' feature alternate histories and yet they still managed to retain a sense of realism when it came to firearms. Treyarch needs to take a leaf out of Kojima Productions' book. Also, while we're at it, I wonder just how much they have paid these so called SOG veterans to keep their mouths shut about the inconsistencies of this game and instead talk about how their old buddies in the unit regularly included crossbows (equipped with explosive rounds, no less) in their field arsenal while completing missions. [[Special:Contributions/203.206.7.125|203.206.7.125]] 06:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==zombie mode==&lt;br /&gt;
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will they have it? It is treyarch, but i havent heard anything solid yet.&lt;br /&gt;
:The article that I read (and summarized below) seemed to indicate that they had something other than zombies. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully not copying spec ops.....&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it's aliens.&lt;br /&gt;
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Area 51 anyone? Eh? Eh? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==What's the type of grenade under the M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork?==&lt;br /&gt;
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Is it just me, or there's some type of White Phosphorus grenade under M18 smoke grenade on the breaching artwork? The guy who wields the MAC-10 has it. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1458/uknowngrenade.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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Here is the original version: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100522160405/callofduty/images/4/4b/100355837.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
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==add m16 to page==&lt;br /&gt;
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It was delted since there was no in game footage, but then there is a m16 slung to the main guy's back on the cover. i say add it. I know theres no in  ge screenshot yet, but look, theres no in game shots of 1911s either.&lt;br /&gt;
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Buddy, that stuff has been added already-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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m16 has been removed, only &amp;quot;ar-15 carbine&amp;quot; is there.&lt;br /&gt;
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==='''M16 is in.'''===&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not sure which version is that, but i added it as A1.&lt;br /&gt;
:I see no forward assist and a three-prong flash hider in the screenshots, so it looks to be an original M16. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It have been confirmed in '''Call of Duty:Black ops INSIGHT''' trailer.&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh crap, they mentioned Sonny Puzikas, I remember that name from the spetsnaz episode of Deadliest Warrior.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Weapons that would make sense==&lt;br /&gt;
M72, M60, M14, Stoner 63, M40A1, M16A1, MAC-10, Remington 1100, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson M76, Browning Hi-Power, Hawk MM1, Smith &amp;amp; Wesson 39&lt;br /&gt;
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AK-47, AK-74, Mosin-Nagant, PM Makarov, Steckin APS, SKS, Dragnnov, PKM&lt;br /&gt;
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-Add any other weapons that would make sense&lt;br /&gt;
:M3A1 &amp;quot;Grease Gun&amp;quot;/Suppressed M3A1, Carl Gustav M/45/Suppressed M/45, suppressed Uzi, CAR-15 w/CGL or M203, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Remington 7188 Automatic Shotgun, SOG modified RPD, M-60 &amp;quot;Death Machine&amp;quot;(M-60 w/ cut down barrel and ammo pack), HK-33(Harrington and Richardson T223).&lt;br /&gt;
:RPD, MAT-49/suppressed MAT-49--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 13:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Dirty Harry's Smith &amp;amp; Wesson Model 29 and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:What the hell do you have with those movie guns ? Why should they be in ? &lt;br /&gt;
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It would be amazing to see Sa. Vz. 58 there. It was frequently used by vietcong fighters as USSR´s help. &lt;br /&gt;
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::The M60D, the M1928 Thompson, the PPSh-41, the StG44, the Winchester 1200, the RPG-2, and the Sten. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::It would be good if they could do a proper tactical reload? If you reload a gun with a round in the chamber you will have an extra round which means you should have a 31 rounds on let's say an M16A2.&lt;br /&gt;
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''''''Some good proofs''' :''' &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=691&amp;amp;sid=c3ccbd4348543db02c420df186cb428c ('' '''NVA training''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.quansuvn.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41.0;attach=4972;image &lt;br /&gt;
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http://nam64-75.hill.cz/download/file.php?id=1169 ('' '''SSG Patrick Tadina with his Vz. 58''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.psywarrior.com/rewardforguns.gif ( '''''Vietcong fighters firearms info poster, left side, third from down''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1164/biethaisamopal9wq.jpg ( '''''Captured Vz. 58 on left''''' )&lt;br /&gt;
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http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/joshuadowdle/Dad.jpg ( '''''In hands of SSG Patrick Tadina''''' ) &lt;br /&gt;
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''SSG Patrick Tadina - Legendary, five-tour Vietnam ranger. He is in rangers´s hall of fame.''&lt;br /&gt;
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==Should be==&lt;br /&gt;
There should be M72 LAWs,  M60s and M14s. cause this is Vietnam baby!&lt;br /&gt;
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Nah. They just arent cool enough for Treyarch. And if they will add those weapons - They will all have RIS rails, scopes, lasers, GL attachemnts, silencers.... --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 11:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)No need for your cheap sarcasm here. This game doesn't seems to pursue that Nam atmosphere with rocknroll, massive chopper assaults, jungle patrols and &amp;quot;smell of napalm in the morning&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sure you will also be able to pick up laser weapons and crap like that. [[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==E3==&lt;br /&gt;
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Added E3 screens - .357 Python and AR15 . &lt;br /&gt;
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== Not an AK-47 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the mag isn't curved enough to be a 7.62x39 mag? It could be a -74 prototype, without the flash hider. Given the time frame, this may make sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for that, I also didn't note it before. It looks to be a WASR-2/3.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 16:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:This game seems to have a lot of rendering issues when it comes to the guns [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
OMG it is damn videogame for god's sake, the guns aren't real and are nothing more than 3d drawings -of course they aren't going to be exactly like such and such gun. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 17:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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'''3D drawning''' ? Hell, that would be interesting. And GTFO, this is '''firearms site''' and ''YES'', we care about reality. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 17:44, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for pointing that out. We are a gun site and we pay attention to details. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Well guess what, THESE ARENT GUNS!!! They aren't effing real they are nothing more than 3d models that someone threw together in 3DS MAX or whatever the hell they use so of course its not going to be up to every detail, That's why I don't do VG pages anymore--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You appear to have missed the point of this website...&lt;br /&gt;
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::Yea. The prop guns in movies aren't real, or air-soft guns. This website is for identifying fire arms, and if you didn't know that then you obviously missed the point of the website, like he said.&lt;br /&gt;
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AsAstra, the point that I don't think you're understanding, is that even if they're merely three dimensional renderings of the guns, and not the guns themselves, we should try to be as correct as possible. If something says that it's an Ak-74, but actually looks more like a different gun, we should call it the different gun, so as not to confuse anyone new to the site. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 15:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the topic of the AK, knowing video game developers the AK being used by the Vietcong will most likely be the same one in those snow picks. I don't think we can call it a 47 right of the bat.[[User:ShaDow XPS|ShaDow XPS]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Degtyarov ==&lt;br /&gt;
It just cant be DPM. Lok - It totally doesnt have ironsights - And MAG isnt on top. + Its very unlikely some guy will cary Spas12 and Degtyarev. I just think its some AK type - Or it may be some different gun, but it isnt Degtyarev.&lt;br /&gt;
You may keep it there, but it will be false information.&lt;br /&gt;
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==ummmm==&lt;br /&gt;
This page really needs a cleanup or a deletion.&lt;br /&gt;
There is also too much informal talk on the page itself, infact all of it is. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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===Moved from main page--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 04:49, 2 May 2010 (UTC)===&lt;br /&gt;
== AR-10 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another unknown M16 family gun. But this one seems more like [[Armalite AR-10]] A4&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:AR10-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Armalite AR-10 A4 7.62x51mm.]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:AR10.JPG|thumb|none|400px|M16 Family unknown gun as appeared in Black Ops teaser.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The magazine seems too long to be an AR-10&lt;br /&gt;
::Thats looking a bit like a STANAG Magazine. The STANAG Magazines are compatible with many NATO weapons, including the SCAR-L Carbine, the M4 Carbine and the M16 Rifle. Even if it were an AR-10 its likely that it would be chambered for the standard NATO round and accept the STANAG type magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also the AR10 is a civilian gun right? So why would special forces like that guy above be holding it? I personally think its an M16(either A1 or A2) with a scope attached to its carrying handle/iron sight.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It's a strange AR-15 Carbine with a flat top [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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AR-10 is not necessarily civilian. It is entirely possible that SOF would use one.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think is not AR10.AR10 use .308 or 7.62x51mm round and the magazine large and short than AR15.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: Its uselles to keep AR-10 discussion here. We all know its that ankward AR-15 or XM177 or whatever.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Un-identified guns ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:MP5G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''1''' : Possibly [[MP5]] or [[G3]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWNLOL.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''2''' : I totally dont know.But it may be some russian one.]]&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to look like a [[MAC-10]] or an [[Uzi]] with the stock extended-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:UNKNOWN THE MOST.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Un-identified gun '''4''' : Its hard to tell which gun this one is, but it looks like [[Beretta AR-70/223]] or Daewoo K2. I think that this gun could be any gun I see and AK there but it could be a siper rifle for all we know]]&lt;br /&gt;
As to the first unknown gun, it's too short to be a G3, so I believe it's an MP5. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 01:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== RPK ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From the looks of it, it might be an RPK-74. Note the 45-round banana mag and the flash suppressor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; are the same guns - look carefully at the screenshot. Given that the 7.62mm AK-47 appears in game and the timeline, I'm gonna say that it's not an RPK-74, but a 7.62x39mm RPK or one made to look like a Valmet for some reason. Maybe Treyarch modelers are using 80's action movies as a reference for their RPK model. *shakes head*&lt;br /&gt;
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No. Look on that &amp;quot;RPK&amp;quot; an you will see typical RPK stock. Look on &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; and you will see it doesnt look like Valmet :)--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Look at the front of the Valmet trigger guard. Now look at that same exact place on the &amp;quot;Valmet&amp;quot; in the game picture. Different. There is no Valmet, it's an RPK.&lt;br /&gt;
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Moved &amp;quot;Unknown LMG&amp;quot; stuff to the RPK-74 section.  Whoever posted those images under there originally failed to notice the way the RPK-74 front sight is canted compared to the Valmet. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 14:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==M1911==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the title screen there is a soldier holding a 1911 i believe it also says something on the side.&lt;br /&gt;
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It says &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; on the slide.&lt;br /&gt;
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The 1911 looks more like the first and not the A1, look at the ejection port.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's to hoping it's 1911s will be in the arsenal in multi-player, and not the tease in MW2 --[[Special:Contributions/67.181.114.114|67.181.114.114]] 07:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)JanG&lt;br /&gt;
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== good decision ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As well as Weapon customization there will also be a character customization feature.&lt;br /&gt;
- That game is gonna be just awesome. Character customization ? Damn, just in R6:V style (ha-ha)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Custom characters? hell yeah --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 00:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
i agree with that customization policy, i liked how in R6V2 they did that, and i can only hope they bring back CoD4s M4A1 Grenadier back, and i also completely agree with the historic battle/ war thing as compared to a (***Spoiler) nuclear warfare and a domestic terrorist plot, i would much rather see Black Hawk Down pop up in a newer game as opposed to Vietnam, but i would settle for a Operation Acid Gambit type game also.&lt;br /&gt;
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Customizable characters in a game where... you can't actually ''see'' the character? FAIL.&lt;br /&gt;
* Customizable characters in game where will be 3rd person mode, and where other players can see it ? Your post '''fail'''.  &lt;br /&gt;
:When did Black Ops become third person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn't. He's saying that other characters will see your 3rd person form. Also, it's noteworthy that MW2 DID have third person mode.&lt;br /&gt;
:So then I've gotta agree. Character customization in a game where you can't actually see your guy seems like a fail to me, too. It's not like anybody in MP is really gonna stop shooting at you to say &amp;quot;hey, cool guy, what kind of vest is that?&amp;quot; And how do I activate this third person mode in MW2? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Well, i dont know. But what about trying &amp;quot;3RD PERSON&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Play&amp;quot; screen ?&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's hilarious how people are whinig about the customization... Go play R6. Custom characters work in FPS games.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, i bought R6:V2 not so long ago and its amazing. I think that game has best character customization ever. Its only pity you cant do anything with your teammates.&lt;br /&gt;
:R6V also has a cover system where you can actually ''see'' the guy/girl you're playing as, a third person mode cheat, and player characters who actually have voices and speak rather than being mutes with no form of personality whatsoever, none of which Black Ops has. I simply think character customization is unnecessary. That's not whining, it's called ''having an opinion&amp;quot;. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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How does the post fail it was an update its not like i'm wrong. its not like i said there would be some sort of Grizzly Bear cannon. it was a NEWS UPDATE!!!   THINK next time a stupid comment is thought by yourself.&lt;br /&gt;
Also heres the ANSWER the other players can see you just like AVP. so thats how customization comes in handy.   [[user:moviemaster1993|moviemaster1993]]&lt;br /&gt;
:First off, I never said ''your post'' failed. That was ''your'' response to ''me'', smart ass. I was commenting on a feature of the game I think is unnecessary, something I'm fully allowed to do. You aren't the lord of opinions around here. Second, comparing Rainbow Six to Call of Duty is about as much of a failure as one can accomplish. Lastly, who the hell cares if another player can see you? I wouldn't be customizing my character for other people, just like other people aren't going to be customizing their characters for me. It's not like everybody's gonna stop shooting and comment on every other player's individual character, is it? The only stupid comments on here are coming from ''you''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's more for identification than anything. So if you're pissed at one guy, you can just look at him ans say &amp;quot;Hey it's that one guy, Imma kill 'em&amp;quot;, instead of reading the little tiny red words above their head that is often jibberish anyway. Just my opinion, though. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== MP5k ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You think they're putting that in there to copy MW2?&lt;br /&gt;
:No I think they're doing it to fulfill their MP5 quota. MW2 wasn't the first game to feature the MP5K, broski.-protoAuthor 00:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't know about that. They also have an AUG in the game and a SPAS-12. Not a coincidence that MW2 also has these. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- Heh. Spas and AUG were in tons of other games. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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But THIS game is directly part of the COD franchise. It's a bit repetitive to show guns that has been in previous games. Well ok WWII games don't count because they cant help having the same guns, but this is supposed to be Treyarch's turn at making a new game, but so far, none of the weapons are new. What about instead of the SPAS-12, we get an 870, or instead of the AUG, we get...any other bullpup rifle of the time. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm thinkin' maybe they showed off the MW2 guns first to get MW2 fans interested in this game. Then maybe later they'll show off some new guns. Here's to hopin'. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 22:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I derinitely think they're putting the MP5k in to copy MW2. They could have put in any other variant of the MP5, variants that weren't in prototype stage and would probably be more combat effective, but they went with the k variant. That said I don't think it's any coincidence the SPAS-12 and AUG is in there either.&lt;br /&gt;
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You don't get the fans back with the same old guns. You draw interests with NEW guns that hasn't been used before. Variety and distinctions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, Treyarch apparently didnt start copying first. MW2´s specops get idea fairly sure from WaW´s coop system :D&lt;br /&gt;
:The latest issue of the official xbox magazine says that they originally had planned on having co-op throughout the entire campaign in MW2, but cut it because it messed with the narrative. Or, it would've been way too fun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
the AUG was stupid in the game, no1 in USSOCOM uses that gun&lt;br /&gt;
* Would you mind telling what do you have against bullpup designs, beside &amp;quot;the looks&amp;quot;?--[[User:WhiteSlift|WhiteSlift]] 11:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Heh. MP5k get into service 20 years after Vietnam war. There was only prototype in latest parts pf Vietnam war. MAC10 or UZI would be much more realistic in hands of US soldiers. Atleast much more than prototype gun. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;MP5K get into service 20 years after Vietnam war&amp;quot;...the MP5K isn't that new. Considering that the war ended in 1975, and the MP5K was introduced in 1976, you are way off.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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true why would they be carrying a Prototype in to combat&lt;br /&gt;
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Well how much differently could essentially just a shortened MP5 with a foregrip work from the regular MP5?&lt;br /&gt;
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Because it's a video game that doesn't care about accuracy and realism. I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented? Go ahead and put them on your rifle in Nam, it's the new trend.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are you complaining about the AUG in particular, I mean USSOCOM doesn't use it? Yeah, well they sure as hell don't use the deagle or the AA12 or the FAMAS but I don't see you complaining&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;I mean what loser actually waits until Picatinny rails to be invented?&amp;quot; Picatinny rails have been around since 1913, broski.&lt;br /&gt;
:Not in their modern version, Broseph Stalin.&lt;br /&gt;
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You all are forgetting..this is SOG, not SOCOM.  SOG could carry into battle whatever they wanted to.  Could they have carried a prototype MP5K?  Sure!  Keep in mind..they had access to stuff that NOBODY ELSE in the military had access to at that time.  Hell..one time they brought an airhorn with them and scared the crap out of an entire NVA division with it.&lt;br /&gt;
:Look, I can understand having access to weapons no one has ever heard of at the time, but you can't have access to weapons if it doesnt EXIST in the world yet. I mean just because they are SOG doesn't mean they have their own special gunsmith to factory make new parts and designs for weapons that haven't been thought up yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:21, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== What the hell is up with this AR-15 Carbine? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It looks like a 733, but at the same time, not since it also has a flat top, but the scenes in the trailer that showed this rifle is assumed to be Vietnam era, so a flat top AR-15 shouldn't exist at the time much less a rail system for it. Also the same AR also has a rear iron sight on the flat top. This doesn't make sense [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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- I think its XM177, but customized way to much. Its mucb more possible that Treyarch just failed. I think they just added rail system/flat top just because MP. You know, attachments. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 05:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It cannot be an XM177 if it has a flattop receiver.  Those did not exist when the XM177s were introduced.  The flash hider is also Vortex, not the XM177-type.  The game's 3D artists might have been ignorant about what AR carbines existed at the time. But that is not an XM177.  Not by a long shot. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the game's 3D rendering tech was mostly like stone because it's the 60s and 70s, but the trailer animation is horrible! I could barely tell what was going on and the weapon details are no where like MW2. Say what you want about MW2 when it comes to consistencies, but at least they can render their weapons correctly. My first upload of that funky AR-15 shows the handguard as this polygon like thing. And did flat top receivers exist during Nam? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::''And did flat top receivers exist during Nam?''&lt;br /&gt;
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:::No, not at all.  My recollection is that the Colt ACR (introduced in the 1980s) was the first AR-type rifle to feature a flattop receiver.  Even though the ACR was a bust, flattops were subsequently carried over into future AR generations. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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With these seemingly anachronistic flat top recievers and flip up sights I think this game is headed towards failure. Seems like they're taking the MW2 route and making their &amp;quot;balanced&amp;quot; and cosmetically changed multiplayer weapons also appear in single player. I hope by some miracle they don't or else they don't get my money.&lt;br /&gt;
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:And here I remember talking to my brother about how they can fuck up the M16 by either putting A2s or burst A1s, but this is WAY over there in the incorrect area. Haven't they seen any Nam movies? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Excalibur01 - or use five minutes just f-i-v-e f**king minutes of their time and try to google some Vietnam-era photos. Or they could hire someone with at least basic knowledge of era background and weaponery. You know, they spent money on countless other things. But I guess that Call of Duty is now like B-rated action movies. Make as many as you can and don't worry about the quality. Nobody gives a s*it about how it looks like or if it is correct as far as it would look cool and geek teen age kiddos would pay the money so they could play multiplayer on their lagging net servers. [Ragnar - 22:25, 19 May 2010]&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully they at least have the M16 have full auto instead of burst, would make it more fun that way. I did read that this isn't taking place in vietnam on yahoo news which probably is incorrect but this is ridulous of the weapons they are putting in.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I read an IGN article that it'll take place throughout the Cold War, from the end of Nam to Cuba and also Princess Gates London [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I researched the history of picatinny rails, turns out Treyarch may have actually done very good research. This is what I found: &amp;quot;The MIL-STD-1913 standard was developed out of efforts during the M16A1 Product Improvement Program which eventually resulted in the M16A2. One of the abandoned ideas was a receiver with a built-in rail. In the 1970s, Rock Island Arsenal experimented with a sniper AR-10 with a Weaver rail. In Vietnam, the Model 656 had a built-in rail.&amp;quot; Source:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-18737.html&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know about you guys, but I'm now willing to believe the rails on this AR (Model 656?) isn't a goof at all.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, its always good to know new thing :) But i think it still wasnt regular Vietnam equipment. And i also think there wont be even M16 or M16A1 ingame.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::True, it wasn't regular Vietnam equipment. But these aren't regular soldiers either. These guys are top secret black ops, higher than tier one operators. They can use any weapon in the world, even ones that are in secret development. And you're probably right, I doubt there'll be an M16, simply because these experimental ARs look cooler, have a bit of mystery around them, and can accept multiple attachments. But I wouldn't be surprised if they name the rifles M16.&lt;br /&gt;
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The model 656 looked like this: &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:model 656.jpg]] &lt;br /&gt;
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It was just an early M16 with an early style rail system. So far, I have not found images of a Carbine with these types of rails, experimental or not. Rails were not on the forefront of military minds before the 90s. The military didn't even decided to put rails on the M16 until a decade after the M4 came out. And even the Model 656 rails were not on a flat top receiver like the ones on an M4. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Aw crap, there goes my theory. Looks like it's back to just being a Treyarch fail.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm not one to justify inaccuracy in videogames but, the upper receiver on the 656 could easily be swapped with that of an AR-15 carbine. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 00:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sure...but the one we see in the game is not the same rail receiver as the one the 656 has. It has a flat top like an M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I just noticed that the front sight isn't removed when an optic attachment is present, an improvement over other COD games. Maybe Treyarch realized an AR would be bolt-action if the gas block was removed. &lt;br /&gt;
:Low-profile gas block is not visible from first-person perspective. And 3-d person gun models were made as low-poly as possible to minimise system loads(this was crucial because games was intended for Xbox in first place)&lt;br /&gt;
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Who know CAR-15 with rear flip up sight use in vietnam war? I see a south vietnam flag in picture.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No. Though, prototype flat-top receiver and flip-up like on your screen could be possible, but it just doesn't look authentic to the time period. I wouldn't mind if they put in something like Model 656(pictured above). But they really need to get rid of that modern-looking AR.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CODBOAR-15b.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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It's just like the Aperature sight in W@W, but no where near as bad. I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of it, sure it's not exactly authentic, but it's far from game ruining like what a lot of people here are saying.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Complaints ==&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, it's a game, not a history lesson. It's all about fun and style and so. I do like a realistic movie or game, but I don't hate a game just because the artists created something they think it's better this way. Nobody complains when a director sums up a car ride that would take 1 hour in real life in one scene in the movie, or when he puts the light where the sun can never be just to make it look good, but when someone puts a cool looking AUG in a game set before 1977, because it looks cool, or creates his own creative vision of an AR-15 everyone freaks out. All the time you hear people say &amp;quot;They should have done better research!&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;They don't know anything about history!&amp;quot;, but maybe the did research, and they know history, and they discussed it and decided that they want to create something own, because they feel it fits better in their creative work than what real life history can give them.&lt;br /&gt;
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*Yeah, you are right. Now we need M1 Abrahams tank in some Napoleonic Wars strategy. Cause that tank is just cool - right ? Or maybe M4 Carbine in WW2 shooter ?--[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch is legally obligated to keep the timeline from going beyond Vietnam. [http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/04/the-activision-lawsuit-what-it-means-and-where-it-s-going.aspx] If that means they have to cheat a bit regarding the weapons, I'm willing to give them some leeway. Let's face it, we're probably the only people who truly care anyway. None of these inaccuracies are going to keep any of us from buying this game when it comes out and playing the heck out of it. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They're not legally obligated to keep it from going beyond Vietnam.  As that article says..all they need is full approval from West and Zampella.  Considering those two aren't rampant assholes..it's a total possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's a bit like saying other people can write Harry Potter novels as long as JK Rowling is okay with it, or other studios can make Star Wars movies as long as George Lucas is okay with it. Have you looked at the games IW has made? Have you noticed a pattern? (For those who don't want to look, all they make are CoD games. That is literally all they have going for them.) Sure, they COULD give away their golden goose and let someone develop else something Activision has given them exclusivity with, but I can't imagine a single scenario where they would. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 10:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Well, msot of CoD players wont even recognize M16 and M4 or HK416. So yep - We are maybe only ones who care about it :/ --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And mind you, Treyarch is the same developer that had Japanese troops using suppressed MP40s with reflex sights in WaW. Oh, and a RAY GUN TO SHOOT ZOMBIES. That being said, I was devastated when I found out that MW2 wouldn't have zombies, and I'll be even more devastated if BO doesn't have them. IMHO, zombies was the best part of WaW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 17:39, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* And IW had OMOH with FN2000´s and IMI Tavor´s - So whats the difference :D Hope zombies will be includeProxy-Connection: keep-alive&lt;br /&gt;
Cache-Control: max-age=0&lt;br /&gt;
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too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Ok the Zombie thing in WaW was a side game. It's not part of the &amp;quot;story&amp;quot;. If the zombies and the ray gun appeared in the actual missions, then we'd called bullshit but with a smile cause zombies are awesome to fight. The suppressors and red dot sights were for multiplayer to compete with COD4 at the time, so those don't count. We're talking historically accurate, period piece weapons. It's like we do a game taking place during the Civil War but we all got 1911s as handguns and M1 Garands as rifles. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You're telling me you wouldn't play a Civil War game where you can use an M1 Garand? ;)True, they tried that with Darkest of Days, but it was terribly done. And second, you CAN get the ray gun for one of the campaign missions, and it is awesome. (You can take down a tank with two shots.) But I know what you're getting at. I'm just saying we shouldn't let the nitty gritty get in the way of good gameplay, especially since Treyarch already has one hand legally tied behind their backs. Would they want to make a Modern Warfare-like game set in present day or the near future? Sure, but they can't, they're legally handcuffed to inflexible historical fact. Besides, no game has ever gotten its weapons exactly right. We have an entire generation of kids who believe an M1 Garand can't be reloaded without firing the entire clip, or it has less stopping power than a K98K. I won't lose any sleep if BO has AR-15s with flat top receivers, but I will if the game sucks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 06:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
You know if there gonna screw this game why don't the just add a bunch of laser guns or crap. I mean i could understand if the weapons in the game where off, but i have a feeling this game is going to be a cluster F***&lt;br /&gt;
::We're basing a lot on two trailers and some scanned images from a magazine 5.5 months from release. I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually play it or at least hear from people who have actually played it. Treyarch has little to lose here. If it's great, people will praise them, if it's not, people already think they're the Fredo Corleone to IW's Michael Corleone in the Activision family. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we're here, we've been talking about how the angle of the AK mag is slightly off, but is anyone else annoyed that if you do a tactical reload and drop half a mag, those rounds in the discarded mag magically go back into your ammo stockpile and you don't lose them? This has been true in 99.7% of all FPS's I've ever played. Gamers have accepted the idea of the consequence-free tactical reload for over a decade now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You're right it's a crying shame. Not only because it's more accurate when the game keeps track of ammo in specific mags but it also adds another challenge and element of strategy. I also enjoy the one game I've played that keeps track of the +1 round in your gun when you reload. I wish more games were like that. Sad thing is I don't see COD heading in the right direction ever again.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The one time I saw them do the tactical reload correctly was... Navy SEALs Quake, a mod for Quake II. Yes, it was a mod made by amateurs over ten years ago. The big game companies aren't doing it right because they don't want to. I remember the first time I played a game that had different animations for reloading with a round in the chamber and one without. Operation Winback on the N64, also ten years ago. It was a nice touch. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::'''Operation Flashpoint''', '''Rainbow Six: Raven Shield''' and '''Insurgency''' all did tactical reloads properly (ammunition is a number of magazines, not bullets, and if you reload a partially-empty mag it goes back in the pool), and the latter two also simulated +1 capacity. Insurgency is a mod but the other two are retail games. --[[User:MattyDienhoff|MattyDienhoff]] 20:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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* But we arent complaining here about animation and bullet system, damn. We are critising look of those guns ! That stramge XM177/AR15 hybrid was seen many times in reveal trailer, so we can judge it. And it failed. Its still better when you have realistic gun without realistic ammo system than crazy-unrealistic looking gun with realistic ammo system. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it'd be that hard to replace the skin. [[Black]] didn't give a damn about realism, but it was still enjoyable as hell. The way I see it, ultimately, it's just a game, to be played because it's fun, not as an interactive history lesson. If you want accuracy, watch the Military Channel or actually go out to the range. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well, it doesnt have to be &amp;quot;interactive history lesson&amp;quot; but atleast a bit of realism would be nice. '''''BTW''': I visit shooting range once or twice in month :)''&lt;br /&gt;
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As pointed out, we don't want TOTAL realism. Otherwise, one bullet hit to the chest is enough to kill you. At least head shots are instant kills in the game. But we're doing a game based on a particular period and it has to be accurate. I mean, if you were watching a WWI movie and see soldiers with M16s. That's a bit jarring right? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Now he will answer it isnt jarring. If the movie has cool effects and famous actors.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Jarring, maybe, but I don't know if it'd ruin it for me. (Is it a sci-fi film? Surrealism? A film by Uwe Boll?) It'd be one thing to have blatant mistakes, like M16s in WWI, but would it have ruined [[Saving Private Ryan]] if Sgt Horvath had a post war M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights instead? Did the fact that the officers had Webley Mark VI's instead of Adams Mark III's ruin [[Zulu]]? Did the fake M72 LAW in [[Ronin]] take you out of the movie? If it didn't, it's because you chalked it up as a goof, moved on, and enjoyed the rest of an otherwise good movie. If it did, then I don't know what to tell you. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:52, 25 May 2010 &lt;br /&gt;
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Here's a hypothetical question: This game is called Black Ops, so theoretically, they can make up whatever they want, what do we know, it's a black op, and thus classified. What if all the weapons in the game were all fake, either outright, or fictional modifications of real weapons? Would we still be up in arms? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I hate to say it but you might be onto something. I've heard rumors that Black Ops will rewrite history and take place in an alternate past. This is probably how Treyarch can get around the legal restrictions of not being able to make post-Vietnam games and explain these BS weapons. Personally I think it's pretty weak but it explains it.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Well, if it does... Wait-It doesnt! I read some article with one of Treyarch members which strictly denied possibility of alternate reality. Ill repat it again : its just some Treyarch modeller fail. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
It's not rewriting history at all basically it's saying that during the Cold War what if there were some Black Ops that went down to keep the whole thing from escalating into an actual official war. Which is completely possible.&lt;br /&gt;
:::It doesn't have to be alternate history, just a secret history. It's implied that the JFK assassination will be in the game. Is the player the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Is he supposed to stop the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Does he successfully stop a possible third gunman? They can make up anything they want in that scenario. A mission can have the player equipped with a prototype laser rifle, but it's scripted so the rifle is damaged or lost along the way, and the technology is lost forever. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It would be great if they do include Dirty Harry's gun and Tony Montana's &amp;quot;Little Friend&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Steyr AUG (Armee Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) had been in development since the late 1960s, as a replacement for venerable but obsolete Stg.58 (FN FAL) battle rifles for Austrian army. It was developed by the Austrian Steyr-Daimler-Puch company (now the Steyr-Mannlicher AG &amp;amp; Co KG) in close conjunction with Austrian Army.See? It's not that wrong. Got it from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as20-e.htm&lt;br /&gt;
:It's still wrong. Just because the AUG was in development doesn't mean a working prototype existed. And if it's supposed to be the prototype, why does the AUG in the game look like the production version, only without the grip, and not as depicted in the prototype drawing shown on the World Guns page? I think the whole prototype explanation is a lame excuse in order to include more modern weapons in the game. I would much rather see the weapons that SOG actually used included in Black Ops, instead of an assault rifle that we've seen about 5 billion times in other shooters. I already posted below how Treyarch could have used the Remington 7188 full auto shotgun in the game. This weapon was actually used in Vietnam, and as far as i know has never been used in a video game, but instead they chose the SPAS-12, which didn't exist at the time and has been used in dozens of other shooters.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 22:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Unknown ==&lt;br /&gt;
The rocket launcher under unknown is an M202 FLASH rocket launcher. Ashdude01 20:20 19 May 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes there is i added it to the guns page but some moron removed it&lt;br /&gt;
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moviemaster1993 11:58 may 2010&lt;br /&gt;
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== Carcano M91/38? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The images provided doesn't shot much and it is said that it can't be a mosin Nagant because the barrel is too short. Well it could be the carbine length variant or any other short barrel bolt action rifle. I can't see anything in the picture. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems like its picture of that gun. Remember that game has to do something with JFK asassination and there can be barelly seen &amp;quot;Lee Harvey Oswald&amp;quot; on paper under that gun. So i think it have to be that gun - As some reference. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 03:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ever heard of the Mosin Nagant M44 carbine or the finnish retooled M38?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 11:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 and XM177 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Colts.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like the guy here has either an M16 as you can tell by the barrel pointing to the left and the barrel on the right looks like an XM177 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks like a M16A1 to me..which makes sense..since the A2 didn't come around until the early to mid 80's.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Embargo lifts tomarrow, the 28th ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ones the embargo lifts we will be flooded with info, especially about guns&lt;br /&gt;
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What embargo? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There was an embargo for some journalist who previewed the game(they also could have played it too)and tomarrow it ends and info will get flooded all over the web&lt;br /&gt;
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* It ended and only few informations and no new guns appeared. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 07:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Valment m78 == &lt;br /&gt;
:The M78 does have its own page here, separate from the RPK. But yeah, I don't think the designers are gun-savvy enough to have both of these guns in this game.--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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What the year of Valmet M78 build? I think is not use in vietnam war the NVA don't have a finnish weapons during the war.And i think in the picture the gun is not Valmet M78.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: And Spas-12 was in vietnam ? It may not be Valmet, but it fairly sure isnt RPK. Or another Treyarch modeller fail ? --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 11:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone notice that the picture of the unknown AK-type LMG has a front sight that upright on the front side and canted forward on the back side like the RPK-74's front sight? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Valmet M78 was invented after the production of the M76 in 1976, which is another weapon considered anachronistic for the Vietnam War era if there's any in the game. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 01:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Time travel (well that would explain it) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093572p1.html Another preview]&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The page doesn't exist [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Fixed that link. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 16:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Launching an SR-71 from an aircraft carrier? Is that even possible? O_o [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:They were able to operate a U-2 from a carrier, but that wouldn't be nearly as sexy as flying an SR-71, now would it? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think it is, You know how these game designers do ALL of their research. (Man I'm sarcastic tonight)--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It's pretty obvious that since MW2, the main source of research is action movies and Futureweapons reruns.&lt;br /&gt;
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Damn straight.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Not that I have anything against the SPAS-12, AUG, or AK47s, but we need to see different types of weapons. What about an 870, or the AK-74? What about other types of Bullpup? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You think 12-year old child knows difference between AK-74, AK-47 and AKs-74u ? That wont make sence..... Why making more weapons when you can add only those &amp;quot;cool&amp;quot; and overused ones ? --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 15:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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My 11 year old brother can, just saying-[[User:SargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Prototypes ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Just to let you know: German games magazine ''PC Games'' had an interview with the developers. In the latest issue, they write, that the black special ops team can get any equipment they want, including non-standard weapons, brand new prototypes and even customized and special built single pieces, &amp;lt;quote&amp;gt;which no one outside the team will ever get to see&amp;lt;/quote&amp;gt;. So that is the official in-game explanation for every crude weapon you can see in the hands of the player.&lt;br /&gt;
:That's what I figured their reasoning would be. It makes sense but it's still a pretty weak explanation if you ask me.&lt;br /&gt;
:So super elite 1337 black ops delta teams can even get weapons ''that don't yet exist''? WTF? Why didn't our SF and SEALs in 'Nam have M4A1s with KAC rail systems, lasers, ACOGs, EOTechs, and bullets that can home in on enemy soldiers from 50 miles away, then??? It's a conspiracy to disarm the public, I tell you! But in all seriousness, I think it's an explanation that doesn't hold water. That mentality might work in 2016 during MW2, but not in a past setting like Vietnam where small arms development has been chronicled and we know where and to what it led. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think it does hold water. Of course these finalized weapons weren't around in the late '60s to mid '70s. But how do you know their prototypes weren't? Most of the weapons in-game will either be early prototypes or in the case of the AR custom-built weapons made by the SOG operatives.&lt;br /&gt;
::Ok, they could at least make it look like prototypes, not like modern weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
::Okay, then how about when the next WWII game comes out, they give all the troops M16s, M60s, Mark 48s, G36s, AKMs, XM29s, and XM8s because, you know, super secret black ops teams can get any piece of kit they want, even if it doesn't exist yet. All they have to do is jump in Doc Brown's time machine, travel through time and grab the latest kit, then head back. 1.21 gigawatts! [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've said it once before, if it's done well, I will absolutely play it. Most people play game as a means of escape, so would it really make a difference if I shot a Nazi with an M16 or an M1 Garand? He's not REALLY dead. He's not even real, and we've contributed nothing to the winning of WWII, or any war. In fact, we've contributed nothing but to our own satisfaction. They're called video GAMES. Playing games is about having fun. I'm sure many if us here loved Nazi Zombies from WaW. Why? Because we love shooting Nazis, and we love shooting zombies, and Treyarch did us a favor by combining the two activities. And we love it even more if we can shoot them with a ray gun that comes out of a magic box. Was it historically accurate? No, but believe me, the history major in me learned to live with it. (Hell, now you've got me all worked up, because as I'm typing this, I can't wait to get the chance to catch Hitler and bin Laden in a meeting and spray the room with a minigun.)  --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Ok i get your point, it's a video game, and fun or not it should have realism, i mean c'mon!-[[User:sargeOverkill]]&lt;br /&gt;
::::BTW, they already sort of did that with the Time Splitters series. And those games were awesome. (At least 2 and Future Perfect were. I never played 1.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:30, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I quite frequently have lots and lots and lots and lots of fun playing games, especially shooters, that adhere to reality. The reason I play a Vietnam or WWII shooter is because I want to immerse myself in the environment. That includes having weapons accurate to the period. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I guess that depends if you consider these games historical or not. I just lump it in with Halo and GoW now, as CoD flew off the historical rails about two or three games ago, straight into &amp;quot;anything goes&amp;quot; territory, which was good from a story telling perspective. Even when it tried to be historical (up to CoD 2) you were still one or two men who personally killed half the German army. That's why I thought releasing WaW on Veterans Day was a backhanded tribute, because nothing honors veterans like a game that allows you to win WWII singlehandedly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==M14==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What with this being a Vietnam War game, I'm gonna be pretty pissed if you can't use a normal M14 rifle, without all the rails and crap.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:M14Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|I want to use an M14 like this in-game]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, it doesnt look cool enough. Expect it with scope, silencer, thousands of rails and plastic stock. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 18:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. They'll Probably put it in.&lt;br /&gt;
2. the rails are the modern demands of a soldier including the ability to easily mount optics and other accessories easily. theres nothing wrong with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd like a regular wood stocked M14, and if you want optics, they did make a scope riser mount for M14s before rail systems. As for silencers, well that's easy, and heartbeat sensors shouldn't bother to return. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::If they want to be accurate with attachments, then they should have a sniper scope and a suppressor (suppressors were available at that time).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Randy Shughart a delta force sniper never had anything fancy on his. as stated in BlackHawk down he had a vietnam era M14, with a scope. nothing fancy there. besides in vietnam there really  wasnt a need for anything fancy. silencer, hell the vietcong already knew they were there because of the helo. Lam- hadn't been invented. and a tac light is slightly useless seeing how they were in a jungle 95% of the time. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: All of these attachments really ''WONT'' make sence. '''But its Treyarch'''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AUG sans grip ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the hell is up with the AUG without a foregrip? I don't mind the fact the AUG is anachronistic, but come on...why take off something central to firing the gun. Maybe the gun is semi-automatic in the game, because our character has to plunge his hand into a bucket of ice to stop the burning after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, I don't understand that decision. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that they used the AUG with a grenade launcher as a model, like this one [http://www.steyr-aug.com/240.jpg], and then just deleted the grenade launcher. But this would mean that no one working on the project A) ever saw a movie with an AUG, including [[Die Hard]], which I would think every male between the ages of 21-49 in the english speaking world has seen, or B) could put two and two together and figure out that putting your hand directly on a barrel is not practical. That, or the plot involves that character severely burning his hand. If not, it's an utterly indefensible and boneheaded decision by the Treyarch staff. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to be absolutely fair, the character is wearing heavy gloves while holding the barrel. But it still doesn't make sense. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::What doesn't make sense to me is that they have a military advisor on staff. How come, at no point in the development, did this man point out that holding a gun barrel while firing is a bad idea, and has he not seen an AUG before? - Opening Poster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Doesn't the grip fold up?-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, but you'd still be able to see it. [http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/NEW-STEYR-AUG-right.jpg]--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I wrote that without seeing the image. Sorry.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree with the grenade launcher theory, especially since multiplayer was done first. Who knows, they might actually change the standard AUG model before the game actually comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG without vertical grip.I think a gun barrel is very hot.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In third person it's just a character model fail. In first person you grip I guess what you could call the &amp;quot;finger guard.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've seen pics of the Austrian Army holding their AUGs by the trigger guard like a P90 but not the barrel itself, that's stupid. Plus, who the hell in 1968 would even take a design like the AUG seriously. The M16 was just starting to be taken seriously by military brass around 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
......Why the hell wouldn't they take it seriously? You do know that the British had actually adopted a bullpup design in 1951 for a very short time. Search Em-2 Rifle. It even had a built in optical sight on the&lt;br /&gt;
carrying handle. We Yanks then bossed everybody into adopting the 7.62 and the EM-2 was abandoned because it was in the .280 round so they went with the FAL which could be much more easily changed to use the 7.62&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, the EM-2 would be a better choice for this game or the SA80 prototype that appeared in The Professionals. I am aware of the EM-2. &lt;br /&gt;
=== Bullpup guns ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If they want bulpup gun in game why didnt they coice Em-2 ? Or Famas ? WHY THAT ANACHRONISTIC AUG, damn.&lt;br /&gt;
The FAMAS is even more anachronistic than the AUG. The FAMAS was adopted in the early eighties and it used a different type of 5.56 ammo than the NATO standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah. It get into service in eighties. But atleast there '''WERE''' first prototypes in 1968. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ummm...the prototypes of both the FAMAS and AUG were developed in the seventies. A better choice might be the Stoner 63 which had a history of use by the Navy SEALs and other clandestine units&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OXM article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Official XBox Magazine did a feature on Black Ops (July 2010, issue 111,) and I figure I'd share some highlights:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- It was inspired by the book &amp;quot;SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos,&amp;quot; by Major John Plaster. [http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Americas-Commandos-Vietnam/dp/1581606761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1275440842&amp;amp;sr=8-1] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The SPAS-12 you use during the Tet Offensive uses Dragon's Breath rounds. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- At least from their description, the &amp;quot;WMD&amp;quot; level sound suspiciously like the airfield level in MW2. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole game looks suspiciously like MW2, just my opinion though. Hughjefender&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M202 FLASH is confirmed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- The M1911s with &amp;quot;Sally&amp;quot; etched on them also have tally marks on them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- They mention a co-op feature that &amp;quot;appears to be a successor&amp;quot; to zombies, which seems to me would indicate no zombies. Bummer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Multiplayer was ready before the campaign, so some of the campaign levels are based on the multiplayer maps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Regarding anachronistic guns, &amp;quot;'In this world, anything was possible' for these soldiers, [Treyarch head Mark] Lamia explains. All equipment requests were granted by their superiors. Cost, apparently, was no object.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- And finally, a quote from the military advisor, Lt. Col. Hank Keirsey (ret) (and something I've been trying to point out for a while now) &amp;quot;The Historical Advisor fights to get every last bit of accuracy, but always has to concede to the need for excitement.&amp;quot; Keirsey appears to be the military advisor for the whole franchise, not just this game or for Treyarch. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Money is no object is one thing, but designing a different rifle system like you would design a James Bond car is a different thing. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: So, basically they said those soldiers can have any gun. Come on, Treyarch ! Give them FN2000´s , Plasma Rifles and Gravity Guns !&lt;br /&gt;
No, really. Off course they can have special weapons. But only those which were designated before 1968. Not those which were designated 10 years after.--[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, but since everything is secret, how do we know the CIA DIDN'T develop the AUG, or the SPAS-12, and cover it up by giving it to Steyr and Franchi, respectively? How can we be sure we DIDN'T capture any energy-based weapons from crashed UFOs? (Mind you, I don't work for Treyarch or owe them anything, but I have to give them credit for giving themselves such a clever out.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It seems like all these SOG's have custom-made pieces. And since Weaver rails did exist in Vietnam it would have been totally possible to make these weird AR's we keep seeing. Not saying I agree with this decision, but this is probably how Treyarch is getting away with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You guys are so wrong, My friend the NAVY SEAL told me something not to tell anyone else but I don't care. They are issued laser rifles just like the ones in Fallout 3 but have a disntegration setting meant for vaporizing. At least thats Treyarches logic. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Calm down. I don't think any of us know when these weapons were in their first stages of prototypes and what they looked like in the prototype stage. Prototype weapons are definitely a recurring theme in Black Ops. Since these guys are above top-secret they can have experimental weapons that are also above top-secret. In the GKnova6 files, it specifically states the AUG in-game will be a prototype version. I wouldn't be surprised if the SPAS is also experimental and the weird AR is completely custom.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Cool&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RC planes instead of predator missiles?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Document from viral site ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over at the CoD wiki I found this &amp;quot;document&amp;quot; from an viral site connected to Black Ops: [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg]. It describes the AUG as &amp;quot;very early prototype weapon; not in production&amp;quot;. It also mentions the [[G11]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and also the delicious China Lake Launcher&lt;br /&gt;
-Double Agent M&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It would be better if they included more of these prototype weapons. I would love to see weapons like BRG-15, H&amp;amp;K CAWS, Ster ACR, Colt SCAMP,etc. Even better would be a underwater level with the H&amp;amp;K P11! After all the inclusion of such weapons in the game will be better than the monotonous selection of Cold War-rea weapons like M1911,M21,G3,FN FAL,AK-74,etc.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 09:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'll shit bricks of joy if the G11 is in there. I've wanted that gun in a Call of Duty game for as far as I remember. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
G11 eh?? im guessing its going to turn into the MP40 from WaW except in speed instead of power&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M202 FLASH ==&lt;br /&gt;
I made a couple of changes in this section including adding of screencaps. I rechanged it back to FLASH because everything is anachronic in this came and it can't be the more rarer XM191. Plus I added a M202 FLASH image, which is actually from Far Cry Instincts Predeator, since I could not find a single good picture of it in the web.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 15:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:There's not anachronism, Treyarch keeps saying that all these weapons are prototypes. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that. I'm pretty sure every weapon we've seen in American hands so far are a prototype of some sort. I think that the FLASH is the prototype version; why can't it be?&lt;br /&gt;
::The reference specifically said &amp;quot;M202.&amp;quot; We're not going solely by the picture, but by what was actually written by someone who either played it or watched the game be played. And since I doubt the average game journalist is an ordnance expert, he only knew because it was probably labeled &amp;quot;M202&amp;quot; in the game itself. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 23:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You know just as well as I do video games often mislabel their guns either by mistake or just to give the public who don't know much about guns an idea of what that gun is instead of confusing them with specifics. I don't argue that it's going to be labeled M202, but I guarantee you Treyarch is intending it to be the prototype XM191.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: XM191 was M202 prototype, just for your information.  --[[Special:Contributions/85.71.49.215|85.71.49.215]] 04:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes, I'm aware of that. But given the shall we say, unique, circumstances of the game, wouldn't it make more sense to go with what the game says, rather than what's historically correct? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes XM191 is a M202 prototype.American send to test during late 1970s in vietnam.And i see a picture of XM191 in vietnam war museum. info from http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl50-e.htm [[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
Here is what it shoots&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[IMAGE:Treyasuckers.png]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wow look like a RPG7 rocket.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Not being able to go past vietnam?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is this crap I hear about treyarch  LEGALLy not being able to go past vietnam in game? A comapny can do whatever the hell they want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I know, I was about to make this same post.-protoAuthor 20:25, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::From the article posted above (emphasis mine)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;-Activision eventually convinced West and Zampella to stay with them by offering up a Memorandum of Understanding. In addition to extending their contracts through to October 2011, this legally-binding document gave West and Zampella some major financial bonuses as well as a couple other hefty promises. Chiefly, it gave the two &amp;quot;creative authority over the development of any games under the Modern Warfare brand (or any Call of Duty game set in the post-Vietnam era, the near future, or the distant future) including complete control over the Infinity Ward studio.&amp;quot; '''In other words, Activision could not publish a Modern Warfare-branded game (or a Call of Duty game set any time later than Vietnam) without West and Zampella's full approval.&amp;quot;'''&lt;br /&gt;
::West and Zampella were the two heads at IW who were fired in April. Now that they're no longer with the company, this might open the door for Treyarch's next CoD game to be Modern Warfare-esque, but there's a lot of litigation right now. The firing was way too late to affect BO, so they operated under the restrictions above. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am still waiting for a WWI CoD with single- and multiplayer featuring France, the UK, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Japan, Italy and the USA. Unfortunately this would be too expensive and only few people would buy it. Thus such a CoD will never be made. Sorry for half offtopic. --[[Special:Contributions/84.181.247.180|84.181.247.180]] 20:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Paul_Baeumer&lt;br /&gt;
:I would love to play a CoD WWI game. (CoD: Great War? CoD: Over the Top?) I'd like to see them change it so you can change out your melee weapon, so instead of a knife, you can equip yourself with an e-tool, brass knuckles, or a spiked club. (Sorry to continue the off-topic.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::And to stay on topic, how would they define &amp;quot;distant future?&amp;quot; Why not a CoD game set in 2110? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why did someone add possible weapons? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Someone added possible weapon prototypes like the G11 and the Pump 40mm? I am removing them tomarrow if no one says anything about why they should be left on. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: This document (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601175649/callofduty/images/3/3d/Doc10.jpg) from the Black Ops viral site could be the reason --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 03:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:There aren't possible anymore, it has been '''confirmed''' that they will be in the game, with other sites like Call of Duty wikia including them in their weapons list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:DOC10.jpg]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 04:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, and the Call of Duty wiki is a beacon of truth... [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The AUG and M202 have see in game trailer.[[User:Tanarmy|Tanarmy]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Still a little chance ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, they are gonna include dedicated servers. So they apparently release modtools - So it seems like its gonna be possible change guns models, just like in CoD4. --[[Special:Contributions/88.208.103.46|88.208.103.46]] 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== M16 on magazine cover ==&lt;br /&gt;
It should be removed for now, seeing as there's currently no evidence to support its inclusion in the game. IMFDB chronicles weapons appearing in movies, television, and video games, not on magazine covers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Game mags are a great source of weapons, thats where half the screenshots we see come from, game informer and the such.&lt;br /&gt;
:Screenshots are one thing, but there's no evidence that the image is actually from the game, it might just be an illustration the magazine drew up. I would heap the image of the guy sitting cross-legged with the two .45s in there as well. It wouldn't be the first time that weapons on cover art don't actually appear in the game itself. ([[Medal of Honor: European Assault]] comes to mind.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 15:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bothering you that much?&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, considering the site has rules against printed media, yes it does bug me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:90% possibility that's a box-art. Don't be nerdy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The game sure went into a lot of detail on the 1911 not to use it, and besides, what else would they have, they cant screw up history enough to throw in deegs and berettas.......oh wait, never mind, they can....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vietcong with a spas 12, damn at this rate my dream of marching into the reichstag waist firing an aa12 may come true&lt;br /&gt;
:That could be multiplayer screens&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SPAS 12 Folded Stock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All i can say is: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!! &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 12 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Its more tacticaler and badassish to keep it folded, only noobs use a stock, not hardcore 1337 operators!  (video game maker logic))&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least thay didn't put a goddamn XM8 in the game, if they do, i'll throw my goddamn PC outta the window, 'nuff said --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 03:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:'''nerd'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least the developers weren't stupid enough to put a rifle concept weapon into a game that takes place during the cold war. At least we can forgive them with the inaccurate AR-15s. And has any game developer ever fired a shotgun without a stock? It's a pain and you can slap yourself in the face if you don't brace yourself. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I can only think of two possibilities, 1) you're firing Dragon's Breath rounds with the SPAS-12, and using it as small flamethrower, so you can get away with firing it from the hip, and 2)more importantly, WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SPAS-12 FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER WITH THE STOCK EXTENDED? The only time I ever saw it was briefly in [[Jurassic Park]]. Even that famous scene in [[Miami Vice - Season 1#Franchi SPAS-12|Miami Vice]], a show that did guns pretty well, with [[Jim Zubiena]], a professional shooter would presumably knows guns pretty well, had him firing a SPAS-12 from the hip. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q2Il86-38A] Do you think most people even realize that thing on top is a folding stock? Yes, you, me, and everyone who's ever fired a shotgun ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgptDs_Nncw| and now this guy]) knows it's stupid to fire a shotgun without the stock extended. But I don't think the general public knows. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not stupid. You don't really have to aim at point-blank range. I'm curious how aiming down the sights of SPAS with folded stock will work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'd love to know the reasoning behind including the SPAS-12 in this game. It didn't exist at the time, and I don't buy the &amp;quot;it's supposed to be a prototype&amp;quot; line. If it's a prototype, why does it look exactly like the production model?(I could make the same argument about the AUG)&lt;br /&gt;
Most likely this is Treyarch just being lazy, or including a weapon simply because it has been popular in video games, or both. They could have included an automatic shotgun that really was used in Vietnam, the Remington 7188. It was basically a Remington 1100 with an extended tube magazine, modified to fire full auto. It was used mostly by the Navy SEALS, but I believe SOG made some use of it as well. It's a weapon, as far as I know, that has never been used in a video game. Instead we get the anachronistic SPAS-12 that has appeared in about 5 million games. If anyone is interested in the weapons SOG really did use in Vietnam, get a copy of &amp;quot;SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars&amp;quot; by John Plaster. It includes a chapter that specifically covers weapons, and there are ton of great photos. It's expensive, but worth the price.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 02:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:[[Image:MV-FSP-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ludovici Armstrong ([[Jim Zubiena]])  fires his SPAS-12 at two drug dealers, while posing as a chauffeur.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was supposed to be a homage to 80's action movies. Or at least that's why I'm accepting it, because then I'll feel like I'm in an 80's action movie whenever I play this game. And what would an 80's action movie be without the SPAS-12 or the AUG? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Snake ==&lt;br /&gt;
The guy with the AR-15 and the USMC and MACVSOG tattoo the guy looks bad ass, I'm pumped for this dude.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sorry but that sounded a little gay.&lt;br /&gt;
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== .357 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A .357, in a tunnel? I hope the game makes it so you won't be able to hear anything for a few minutes after you fire it, so you'd have to make the choice between shooting the bad guy or just meleeing him. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Anyone noticed reloading animation ? He just throwed out shells ( ''STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) And then moved .357 out of screen ('' STILL HOLDING FLASLIGHT IN LEFT HAND - VISIBLE'' ) and than returned .357 to screen. Fully loaded. So it means he reloads revolver in few seconds with one hand ? ...... I just hope BF:BC2:VIïetnam will be much better.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hey, I'll take that over reloading ''two'' double barrel shotguns at the same time without dropping one anyday. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 04:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It is a game.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Grenade Launcher ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can anyone identify the grenade launcher used in-game? Here's the link to the video where you can find it. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 The game labels it &amp;quot;Grenade launcher.&amp;quot; It looks like an M203 but that didn't exist in Vietnam...&lt;br /&gt;
Also, here's some breaching footage: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101260&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah they did, they went into service around 1969 I think&lt;br /&gt;
:Can't believe I got caught without doing my research. My bad.&lt;br /&gt;
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It's an M203. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== SPAS-12 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone noticed (In first gameplay video) that EVEN RUSSIANS are equipped with SPAS-12 ? Can be seen around 2:53 lying on the ground next to russian guy....&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah... This is turning out to be pretty fail...&lt;br /&gt;
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Guys who cares, achronisms don't kill a game. Does it really matter if the guns are slightly innaccurate, all that matters to me is gamplay, good and fair online and ZOMBIES!!&lt;br /&gt;
:Call of Duty has always been accurate in the kinds of guns they present to you in single player, with the exception of Modern Warfare 2. So I think I can speak for many fans of the franchise, it matters to us.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again..it is a pre-release trailer...game is still 5 months from release...&lt;br /&gt;
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At least it's European, the Russians in MW2 carried Vectors and TAR-21s. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;AR&amp;quot; Sling ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not one to complain too much about the achronisms, but I do care when things don't make funtional sense, like that the AR's sling, which for some reason is wrapped all around the gun, is stuck UNDER THE BOLT CATCH. It's not like they don't understand it's a funtional part of the gun, cause every AR varient in every COD that's had them has the empty reload where you press the catch... Also I noticed on the non-empty reloads the AR just kinda dips out of the screen and moves a bit then comes back up loaded, you don't see the mag, same goes for the .357; THAT'S lazy... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I liked the AR-15 reload, it looked real. He pressed the mag release, he let the magazine fall to the ground, and he held it there until he put the new mag in. It's alot more realistic than the MW2 reloads, were you wave your gun around the screen while reloading either to look cool or to make it obvious that you are, in fact, reloading your weapon. Most of the time though, people don't do that when they reload in real life, unless they're an idiot. The .357 reload was kinda lazy though, but I let it slide because he actually whips the cylinder back in instead of the light tilt that's all it takes to swing the cylinder back in in MW2 and most other video games. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
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I love reading these things to see how much constant griping there is..considering the game is still 5 months from release.&lt;br /&gt;
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[sarcasm] You don't need to reload your guns if you are black ops, just lower them and they will be full again![/sarcasm] seriously thought, this game is REALLY start to be a dissapoint, and it haven't even been released yet --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 22:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I have noticed weapons in game have muzzle jump. MW2 and COD4 had none the guns stayed on target and took no skill to use. In this even the ar-15s rose. I like it.&lt;br /&gt;
:It's just cosmetic rise up, the sights will come back right on target after each shot.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually WAW some guns would go off target, like an mp40 or DP machine gun. More noticeable at range. Treyarch has recoil effects, which i like.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It could just be that modern weapons were designed with a better understanding of reducing recoil. Most modern automatic weapons have straight-line stocks, which reduces recoil, as opposed to bent stocks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 13:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually look at mw2 ak, fal, m4, whatever, no recoil. WAW, mp40s would be shooting high after half a mag. I like recoil effects means you need more skill to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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== M16 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Unknown [[M16]] ( Seems to be A1 ) covered with some kind of cloth or tape appeared in hands of soldier on one of BO´s artworks. &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:M16-SP1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M16A1 - 5.56x45mm]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:BLACKOPSM16.JPG|thumb|none|500px|M16 on cover of French Xbox 360 magazine.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I moved it from the main page because like we discussed earlier, it's just a magazine cover with nothing to back it up. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 11:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Yeah, that was nice turn. I added it on the page just because it ''HAD SOMETHING TO DO'' with game :) There arent any proofs that M16 will be featured (''unofrtunately'') --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 12:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Let's be honest fellas, it's hard to have a game that has much to do with Vietnam without having the old three pronged, triangular handguarded M16. My bet is that it will show up, armed with full auto and 20 round mags. Also, I'm pumped for the G11, that thing is gonna be epicly epic. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Is it me or is the picture in the magazine a reverse shot? Because I see the forward assist on this A1 as well as the ejection on the right side. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bad Feeling ==&lt;br /&gt;
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After realizing all the goofs that are popping up and watching more gameplay footage, I'm getting the feeling I got before Modern Warfare 2 released. Like they're throwing what was once a pretty legitimate game out the window for the coolness effect. And with MW2 that feeling turned out to be correct. Anyone else sensing the same thing?&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I've got the same bad feeling, except a lot sooner than I got it with MW2, maybe just cause I'm not really expecting much better after the disaster that MW2 was. Oh and COD4 is still fun ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 sucked..but MW2 was IW..CoD:BO is Treyarch.  Are they perfect?  No..but now a days they're better than IW.&lt;br /&gt;
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I must say i really enjoyed MW2, and, in my opinion, Infinity Ward is still better than Treyarch, oh well, games can't please everybody, can they? --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 11:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully multiplayer is a bit different, mw2 multiplayer was old when it started since it was just like cod 4, at least WAW had vehicles.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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With luck they'll fix the problems '''before''' the game ships this time. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I hope you're right but I doubt it. I've never seen a game change much of anything five months before release.&lt;br /&gt;
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Everyone here talking shit about IW?  You're a bunch of idiots.  IW makes far better games.  I don't know why you don't like MW2, but it's one of the best of the series so far.  This game, on the other hand, looks like it'll be a disaster (as nearly all of Treyarch's iterations are).&lt;br /&gt;
:Fuckin right.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 03:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I didn't say I hated MW2. Doesn't stop it being loaded with bugs that make the game seem like it was rushed out to meet the deadline. Now, if you're done fanboying... [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't think it's entirely fanboyish. I'm pretty sure the general consensus of CoD fans is that IW games are better than Treyarch games. IW started the franchise, and CoD games are the only games they make. Treyarch is just along for the ride. But now that IW has lost almost a third of their employees in the last month, that dynamic may change. I have a lot of hope for BO, and I think it's silly to write it off based on a few trailers and three minutes of gameplay footage. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 12:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: My point was that MW2 was ruined by Acitvision trying to force IW to meet the due date, meaning they had to ship it with a whole range of bugs. However, some of the above poster's comments do seem to boil down to &amp;quot;It's gonna be shit cos it's not an IW game.&amp;quot;[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 07:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that this game looks awesome, and i dont see what the problem is&lt;br /&gt;
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IW gets the cred since they made the modern games, which people wanted. WW2 was old that siad Treyarch couldve done just as good making mw1 and 2. They had better fire lighting, recoil effects, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Bottom line is this. IW failed to have MW2 be better than CoD: 4, and this is why they've been put on hold. Treyarch's WaW was a brilliant game, and I still love to play it to this day. Treyarch has shown more promise then IW lately, and I'm sure they won't disapoint with Black Ops, as they plan to remove and fix all the shit MW2 got wrong. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Let's replace your opinion with some fact.  MW2 was better than CoD 4 based on the storyline and sales alone, without going into all the new multiplayer features.  Was multiplayer a bit buggy?  Yeah, for around a month.  Treyarch's installments are considered, by those who have played the series, crap in comparison. WaW?  That game was garbage.  It was basically a recycling of levels from other games in the series that were reskinned.  The game was a knockoff of CoD4 that took place in WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm going to have to call BS on the better storyline in MW2. It's the first CoD game where you get to not only gun down civilians, but also kill American servicemen. That's better? Are you and your buddies playing MW2 in a cave in Kandahar? Big Red One was disappointing, but then again, it wasn't supposed to be a &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; CoD game. CoD3 did suck, I certainly won't argue that. I hated the idea of WaW at first, because WWII was so overdone, but I liked it once I actually played it. (There might be a lesson in there.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now let's talk about Treyarch.  Aside from their lameass 'cash-in' port of CoD4 for the wii (which was garbage), what did they do in the series?  Call of Duty 3, Big Red One, World at War, and the current work in progress Black Ops.  I don't know if you played any of those, but they were all terrible entries in the series.  CoD3 was a gimmick game. 'Oooooh motion control and button mashing'.  Big Red One was garbage, and WaW was a hack-job.  What does that record suggest their next game will be like?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Big Red One was awesome, shut up.-protoAuthor 18:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh, and Treyarch couldn't have made MW1 or 2.  They lack originality; every game they released was a knockoff of either IW's designs and ideas or of another developer.  The only reason Treyarch is getting to make more CoD's is because IW's execs left because they were being denied their contractually obligated bonuses. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 11:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Your timeline is off. Development of BO started well before the recent upheaval at IW. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Also, World at War is a superb game. Sure you have the god like MP40, but that's nowhere near as bad as OMA danger close noob tubes in MW2, and to anybody who's into WWII and it's weapons it's a hell of a game. It's no CoD: 4, but thank fuck it's no MW2. Treyarch shows promise, and if IW was doing Black Ops I would hold no hope at all. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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No offense but what your saying is that WAW was great in comparison. Thats not good logic at all, CoD4 is the best out of the three. No clue on BO but I have a feeling that since they wanted to justify cool guns that are anchoristic with that they are prototypes is just half-assed which may relate to the rest of the game. Also have you seen the reload animations?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:When WaW was first announced, I was appalled. I couldn't believe they were staying in WWII, even after CoD4 skipped ahead to modern day. Looking back though, the fact that it's a WWII game is the only flaw I can think of. (Although, yes, it's a big one.) It restricted the plot, and WWII has been done to death. It was otherwise a pretty good game. I really liked the co-op campaign missions, the vehicle missions were well done, the voice acting was superb, and Zombies takes the game to a whole new level. Aside from the setting, is CoD4 really that much better? Is it time to give Treyarch the benefit of the doubt? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 04:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree with all of your points chinaman, and you're right, CoD 4 wasn't really all that better. Besides the modern warfare setting, it lacked many of the cool features and such that WaW introduced, and while everyone including me loves it, it wasn't overly better than WaW. I always applauded Treyarch for making WaW not so noob friendly, something IW did massively with MW2. Now the guys at Arch have been watching people complain everywhere about the shit in MW2, and so they know what to do to fix it. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Goofs and screw-ups ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alright no offense but SHUT UP!!! You guys are complaining about the anachroistic guns in it but it's supposed to be that way. The freaking  name is BLACK-OPS which means no one knows about it. What they are doing are saying what Cpt. Price said: History is full of lies. So, what they're saying is that this is not what they thought really happened but they are using their imagination to come with these historical ideas that fall in to the game. But like I said everything in it is supposed to TOP SECRET, so it's going to be anachroistic. But that's how it's supposed to be. It's TOP SECRET so none of us would even know about it. &lt;br /&gt;
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and P.S. For all butt-holes who said MW2 sucks, Opinions are like butt-holes every body's got one, and nobody wants to hear the other one. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 12:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Yeah. You act like 12-years old. But we all know you are 10 years old.&lt;br /&gt;
::For your information I am actually 12.&lt;br /&gt;
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Look up mw2 bad spawns on youtube and you'll see how its flawed. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I take it that you don't want fans of the COD series to actually question the developers for making questionable (or stupid) weapons choices for the sake of a compelling narrative. Unfortunately, that only works if we didn't have already have lots of knowledge of the 1960s-1970s era of covert operations from the military and numerous books, which only makes the anachronisms more glaring to anyone who isn't 12 years old.Just like movie watchers, people playing games set in a particular historical era have a certain set of expectations of what ought to be present and what shouldn't. To dismiss all those concerns with a &amp;quot;TOP SECRET&amp;quot; excuse is ridiculous, since Call of Duty 1-3 all managed to be interesting without adding things that didn't exist in the same timeframe. Cursing at people because they disagree doesn't make your defence of Treyarch seem anything more than juvenile. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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No, I just wanted everybody to shut up about saying crap about the guns. So they maybe think that a AUG without a foregrip looks stupid, I think it looks cool. The graphics look good and it looks realistic. I am 12 so I don't care about anachrosism, but I know a heck of alot about guns and Call of Duty so yeah, I was a little mad but because alot of you guys are like in your thirties they are targeting this for people in the younger phase and are not expecting people to go Hey! The AR-15 wasn't introduced then and neither was the Grenade Launcher. I don't think Treyarch are expecting a Riot of AUG foregrip lovers to burn down their studio but come on guys, seriously. Do you have to take this that seriously, your calling me juvenile while your sitting in your chair going hey that trigger guard is rounde then it can't be a M9 so it has be a 92SB therefore they lied! I'm going to kill them! etc. etc. so hey try to be a little compassionate and maybe think about going outside your mom's basement. Ha Ha just joking. (not sarcasm) So what i'm saying is can you not be so depndive on every little detail. Would you like to make a Call of Duty game. Just please voice your honest opinions and not go on about gun mixups because it's really not about the guns it's more about the plot and story. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 18:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that you people are taking these things too seriously. Since cod 4, these games are like action movies, rather than historical war role-playing type shit. Yes the anachronisms are disappointing, but I'm not really bothered by it and they were done for the sake of making the game cooler (and in my opinion any game set in Vietnam AND including a spas-12 is badass). If you want realism, than check out the new Medal of Honor. If you want Hollywood type action, buy cod games, because thats the direction the franchise is going in, which isnt a bad thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright kiddies, let's sit down and have a nice list of what's wrong with Modern Warfare 2.&lt;br /&gt;
-One Man Army&lt;br /&gt;
-Danger Close M203s&lt;br /&gt;
-Commando&lt;br /&gt;
-The Spawn system&lt;br /&gt;
-Deathstreaks (especially Painkiller)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpowered and unbalanced guns (ACR, FAMAS, UMP)&lt;br /&gt;
-Overpriced map packs&lt;br /&gt;
-non-dedicated servers, which leads to lag and host migration up you yin yang&lt;br /&gt;
-the OMA/Danger Close noob tube combo&lt;br /&gt;
-boosters galore&lt;br /&gt;
-10 Prestige hack lobbies&lt;br /&gt;
-The F2000 is a pile of garbage&lt;br /&gt;
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So all said and done, that's a pretty big list of whats wrong with the game. You're free to disagree, but let it be known anyone claiming noob tubes are legit will be lynched. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The new Metal of Honor is just trying to cash in on the whole Modern Warfare craze we got going. Modern Warfare is the new WWII game of this generation. And because this IS a site that points out specific weapons, whether or not it should exist in the time period is our jobs on this site. Those of us who do take this site serious has an obligation to point out the holes and inconsistencies. That's what we do here. Call it bitching or whining, but that's what this site is solely for, nitpicking, pointing out obvious holes when we see guns in a movie, game, etc. We're looked up all sorts of history involving the AR-15 and just saying it's &amp;quot;Black ops&amp;quot; doesn't mean they defy the laws of historical consistency. In some of the Indiana Jones movies that takes place before WWII, we do point out MP40s and 98Ks should not exist as a fact. Even black ops of today would use the latest technology, not weapons that haven't been field tested or even made yet. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You, Excalibur, look like one of those very few inteligent people in this discussion. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree. Also, I've seen Beta footage and Medal of Honor just looks a lot like Bad Company 2. And to be honest, I could care less if the AUG or AR-15 or what have you is an anachronism in this game, as long as we're not talking lasers I'm fine. We're here to point out weapons in film, give pictures and descriptions of them, and talk about them, not bitch that a gun being in a game set 2 days before it was produced makes it a failure [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Those guns arent 2 days befor prouction. Its ''8 years''. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 09:42, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pointing out achronistic guns is part of what we do here, that said, for me it won't kill the game, unless there's a Modern Warfare 2-like pile of other stuff wrong with it too. Oh and yes the Russians &amp;amp; Vietnamese wouldn't use SPAS-12s but you're forgetting the only guns they've REALLY intended to show off so far are the AUG, SPAS-12, AK-47, M202, Python, and Crossbow, that's only what, six? I think they only picked these few guns to go in the trailers, and then reveal more later, so maybe the guns will be more where they should in the final version... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes, God forbid we talk about firearm mistakes in TV/Movies/Video Games on a website DEDICATED TO DISCUSSING FIREARMS IN TV/MOVIES/VIDEOGAMES! I will continue to make comments on what, in my opinion, are idiotic firearm choices for this game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to reply, but don't tell me to shut up. Some of the comments above just prove my theory that weapons, such as the SPAS-12, were simply included because they are popular in video games, with Treyarch using the whole &amp;quot;prototype&amp;quot; B.S. as justification for their presence.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 05:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes, how DARE they try to give players what they want?! You'd think they were in this to make money or something. What a bunch of whores! --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Really? So the only way for this game to make money is to include a SPAS-12? Is there that much demand for a SPAS-12 it has to be inluded to make gamers happy? Would the game be a financial failure if it wasn't there, and weapons more appropriate to the time period were included instead?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 06:12, 20 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You said it yourself, it's what players want. And like you also said, it's minor. Games are made for the general public, not gun dorks like us. As a gun dork, I'm a bit bothered, but as a gamer, I'm thrilled that I can light people on fire with a shotgun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 09:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (gun dork and gamer)&lt;br /&gt;
^Hell yeah! [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 23:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Does the success of the game depend that much on specific weapons that appear in it? You said yourself that as long as a game is fun, accurate/inaccurate depictions of weapons doesn't matter that much. If that's the case, weapons more correct to the time period can be included, and the game will still be a success ''as long as it's fun''. And I highly doubt Treyarch polled gamers and asked them what weapons they wanted to see in Black Ops. I think they were just acting on their ''perception'' of what weapons are popular in video games. So I don't know if I can say this is a case of &amp;quot;what players want&amp;quot;, more a case of Treyarch saying &amp;quot;we think we know what players want&amp;quot;. This is just a theory I came up with as to why certain weapons were included, I don't have any idea if it's true(although some comments from other posts seem to confirm it). For all I know, Treyarch is just being lazy and it's easier for them to include the well known weapons rather than do real research. At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 01:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::&amp;quot;At any rate, I can't see the inclusion/exclusion of specific weapons making or breaking a game.&amp;quot; My thoughts exactly. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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You know, those that find it stupid that we are pointing out the anachronisms in this game should really just go to the treyarch forums, not post on a website dedicated to firearm identification. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ok, if those anachronistic weapons supposed to be '''early''' prototypes then they at least could make it look '''different''' from production models! That would be much more believable. Tryesuckarch is just being f-ing lazy. I don't mind flat-top AR, but they could make it not look like a modern one. And also if there is no simple M16A1 then it's a total fck-up in the Vietnam themed game.&lt;br /&gt;
::If they made it look different5 from the final gun, you guys would be even more pissed! You'd be like &amp;quot;How can they call that a M16A1! Look at it it looks nothing like the original!&amp;quot; Plus. how could Treynot-suckarch know what they would like? You guys wouldn't be pissed if this was a modern warfare game. In fact I bet that Treyarch probably wanted to do that but they couldn't(breathes deeply)you know what this is my last comment. I'm done arguing with all the stupid people on this site. If you have anything else to say you can take it up with me on my talk page. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 13:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You don't know what you're talking about. Photos or drawings of the prototypes can easily be found on the internet. A drawing of the AUG prototype is on the World Guns page, and the prototype SPAS-12(along with a photo of the SPAS-11) is shown on the SPAS-12 webpage: [http://spas12.com/spas12not.htm] And if Treyarch clearly states a weapon is supposed to represent a prototype and it actually looks like the prototype, no one is going to complain.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Are these mistakes any worse than some of MW2s fuck ups? Like the L86 with a made up drum magazine and iron sights that wouldn't be usable as it has a straight stock, the AUG cosmetically having a 30 round mag when it says 42? The MP5K having a rail system only seen on an airsoft gun in real life and so on. Let's remember Black Ops isn't set only in 1968, and so they have a bit of play when it comes to weapons. The M16 is confirmed (I have a friend doing beta testing) and is Vietnam styled. Now if anyone wants to instantly write off the game because it has a few anachronisms and shit in it, then your missing the point. So what if your using an AUG in 1968? It's not like lasers in WWI, and it's still fun to do. Don't focus on the hate, try and just enjoy it for what it is, a video game. If you want reality, go join the army and head off to Iraq or something, cause in video game land, reality will be broken. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]&lt;br /&gt;
:So you're trying to justify Treyarch fuckups comparing it to MW2? Fuckup is fuckup&lt;br /&gt;
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One, I tottaly agree. Two, did your friend say if there is an M14?&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, the M14 should be in there. Also, I hardly see mild anachronisms as &amp;quot;fuck ups&amp;quot; in a game that pretty much goes on alternate reality anyways. Treyarch has created a game all about the operations we don't know about, the cover ups, and the spec ops weaponry we don't see for years, so having an AUG earlier then it's commercial release can be forgiven. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]\&lt;br /&gt;
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::Treyarch has the right to depict an alternate Cold War for all they desire, but as long as they try to play it off as the historical &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; that no one knows about while maintaining all sorts of obvious (and IMO not minor at all) anachronisms, they are only leaving themselves open to criticism. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 23:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:They aren't trying to play it off as historical truth, they're trying to go with an alternate truth, which makes perfect sense. Also, if I hear another person commenting on how rails are anachronistic, I'm going to snap. It's fucking rails on a gun in a video game, get over it. Black Ops will be an awesome game, and despite these possible anachronisms, I'll be gladly killing Russians in 1968 with my AUG thank you [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't think I'm going to get this game. I'm getting a vibe that it's filled with silly crap much like Modern Warfail 2. I'll be playing the next Medal of Honor instead. -Frank T&lt;br /&gt;
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:Medal of Honor looks like Bad Company 2 with Taliban, so that's the game I won't be getting. Treyarch impressed me with World at War, and they're aiming to please this time, removing and modifying all the bullshit Modern Warfare 2 bestowed on us. From deathstreaks to Commando, they're out to fix it all! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I never really got that mindset &amp;quot;It's BFBC2 but slightly different so I'm not getting it&amp;quot;. Well, if you don't like Bad Company 2 to begin with that's fine, but there's more of a difference between Bad Company 2 and Medal Of Honor than between COD4 and World At War, most of the difference was the setting so it seemed like a bigger difference, but the core gameplay was very close, and they were made by two DIFFERENT companys while BFBC2 and MOH are made by the SAME ONE. I'm not saying anything bad about them, I like the first three and the MOH Beta. And yes, Modern Warfare 2 failed in two ways: First, it was WAY too noob-friendly, like, before it came out I would've never thought it possible for a game to be that noob-friendly, and second, it traded realism for coolness in pretty much every way, while COD4, the game they'd JUST MADE, had a believable story, weapons that were almost perfect in terms of appearance and who used them, and the only real nooby stratagy was the M16 Red Dot, but oh well, there was almost only that one. I know Treyarch has said they're trying to get rid of the cheap MW2 stuff, and that's good, but I'm really not liking the direction this is going, picking the guns because they're cool and not because they make sense, even a little bit, the exploding crossbow bolts, how almost every weapon we've identified so far is either achronistic or has something wrong with it (go look), the Hind A with tandam seating, and when you get in you go through the long cool animation of getting in and starting up, but then it takes off in 2 seconds flat, and the lazy, lazy reloads... I'm not saying it's going to suck, I'm saying my hopes aren't high, sure it'll be better than MW2, but that's not saying much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Arguably Black Ops has issues, but don't forget that E3 footage comes months before the final product. So what if the Hind has tandem seating, does that make it any less cool to blast VC with it? So what if the reload isn't uber detailed, does that detract from you shooting people? So what if there's minor anachronisms, isn't this both a video game and an alternate reality? I'll agree the crossbow is kind of odd, but this game should be nowhere near as noob friendly as the god awful MW2. Modern Warfare 2 was built on the idea of helping bad players, but it only resulted in much rage for good players such as myself. Call of Duty 4 was made to break the mold on FPs games of the time, and it did and still does kick ass. MW2 was built to top it, and instead of that, they gave us an over dramatic, noob friendly game that overall makes me just want to buy a copy of CoD 4 again. And on MOH, I've seen some footage, and now I actually like it, sure it looks BC2 like, but thats no biggy, and overall that looks ready to rock too! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Okay, sorry, that came off as too bad against Black Ops, I know it's months away from coming out and no, the Hind's seating isn't really a problem, I was just pointing out that it was wrong, same with a lot of the stuff we've seen so far. My point was there's a lot of incorrect things in the game, not neccecarily game-breaking, just pointing out that COD4 and WAW were better in that regard, though so far the game overall looks pretty good :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:To be really honest, it won't matter if there's minor issues and anachronisms, cause as long as Black Ops isn't as noob friendly and shitty as MW2, I'll be fine and dandy [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Exactly, but we still do need to point them out though. ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 08:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I dont see MW2 as &amp;quot;noob friendly&amp;quot;, just as balanced. It tried too hard to make no gun any better than another. It also felt like cod4, like the core gameplay mechanics were all old when you started playing. &lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it dude, MW2 basically reeks of noob friendliness. You have deathstreaks, solely designed to help shitty players, noob tubes which when coupled with OMA and danger close are the noobs cannon of choice. You have the ACR and FAMAS, both of which are overpowered, then you get stuff like the UMP which at close range does more damage then an M4 Carbine. Not to mentionthe marathon lightweight commando set up used by knife fags so they can knife you from 12 feet away. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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And the overpowered Harriers, that killed everyone all the time and you could have 2 up at once, and they always beat the helos in fights, and Chopper Gunner, and Tactical Insertions, allowing people to boost really easily for the Nuke, that ended the game, and Slight Of Hand Pro that let everyone quickscope, yeah the list keeps going... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I always find a stinger to be good against harriers and because you can have 2 on you, most of the time, you can take even 2 of them out. Not Gunner choppers are a pain to take down [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Chopper gunners are a pain, AC-130s are worse. Not only can they not be hit by bullets or tubes or anything of that sort, but they have TWO sets of flares that can deploy without any delay. Tact inserts mixed with cold blooded and good old FFA is great for boosting, luckily now Sandy Ravage deals some booster justice (hell, even I serve justice to them now). Either way though, MW2 was clearly IW's attempt to top CoD: 4, which was a game built to revolutionize FPS games. MW2 was built to be playable by even the noobiest kids, over the top, reference movies every two seconds, and overall be a fairly shitty game. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with the Harriers is they're way too good... unless you just pull out a stinger and then they're dead, which is a little too extreme both ways. The reason the helicopter was so much better in COD4 was because there were no guided rockets, you couldn't shoot the rotor (so you couldn't just hipfire the thing to death), and UAV Jammer didn't help you against it, it killed you anyway, not to mention it never seems to manage to hit you in MW2. What I hate is hearing &amp;quot;Helicopter Inbound&amp;quot;, then seeing it shot down in literally 5 seconds... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Death streaks were only like 10 seconds long and didnt bother me, no guns were eoverpowered, there all balanced, too much if you ask me. C130s were easy to hide from and rare to see and i downed tons of harries with stingers. The noob tube didnt bother me, i used a m16 with m203 and iron sights as my primary weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot The problem was cheap tactics, like camping spawn points and getting your friends to camp with you in free for all so you could stab them and boost your way to a nuke.&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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The only streak thats ten seconds long is painkiller, and it still sucks. The ACR has no recoil and can outshoot sniper rifles, so can the FAMAS. AC-130s are easy to hide from on SOME maps, but if you get spawn trapped outside, your screwed. The fact you use a noob tube on your primary gun choice sickens me, because ANYONE who uses them, unless to get the shotgun unlocked or in a tactical, non spam way is a complete noob and should be banned for using such a cheap weapon. Knife noobs are easy to shoot at times, but if they get within ten feet, commando is your demise. MW2 is a shit game, end of story, Black Ops is doing everything to solve the problems it caused, amen. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The m203 is useful to launch through windows and take out campers, and i use iron sights so might as well have an attachment. I dont use the m203 as my primary, but have it on my primary. And the ACR has low power at range taking on snipers. I countersniper with my m16 though, love irons, they have no sway like a scope. I hate snipers the most, there like socially acceptable campers. Its funny to lay out some noob who tries to quickscope though. It seems like no matter what you get called a noob though, m4 noob, noob tuber, shotgun noob, dual wield noob, knife noob....it seems everyoned thinks if yo dont use whaty they do your a noob, and c-130s dont bother me, there rare, people need 13 kills to get them. I hated when i tried to play free for all with some friends in a party and people are just boosting to nukes each round and cheating there asses off&lt;br /&gt;
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[[user:k9870]]&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. it is always considered noobing. Snipers are annoying. it takes no skill at all to snipe. however there are worse things in MW2 then Snipers. for example- the people who camp in buildings like Wasteland or Scrapyard. &amp;quot;noob tubers&amp;quot; really arent annoying at all anyway. aggravating maybe, but if someone hits you with a M203 its your fault anyway. you should have been more alert. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:48, 3 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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People always camped hallways and alleys and just shot anyone coming around the corner. Easy to just poke in and launch 40 mil at them. Besides, the thing has an aring distance, you need to arc it at range and reload was slow. Balanced.\&lt;br /&gt;
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-k9870&lt;br /&gt;
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:Face it, the M203 is a noob piece of shit. the combo of an M203 with Danger Close and OMA makes you a mini artillery battery. Also, how are you supposed to dodge a tube when people are shooting them cross map to your spawn? Nothing says pro like getting hit by a 40mm grenade shot hundreds of feet over buildings into your face. The M203 has no place in MW2, and I'd be one to have it removed. If retards can't use guns well, don't give them bullshit to help them, let them suck and they'll quit the game. When I pull my FAL out, I feel like a pro, knowing everyone else has the overpowered ACR and FAMAS and the tubes out, all ready to be scrubs, while I'm using something that's balanced and yet awesome. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Well said, though I wish the G3 was still in, and the fact that the ACR does a little less damage, like 1 bullet, maybe two different, makes no difference when there's absolutly no recoil, they still can't do anything by the time you kill them across the map from one huge sustained burst... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:37, 4 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you all playing hardcore or something? And i have no people launching 203s around problem, you only get 2. And i could care less about harriers and 130s, you need a lot of kills to get them. There is a call of duty cultuure to nae some guns as oaky and some as cheap. I dont give a shit personally though. i just play. No matter what somebody will bitch about your gear.&lt;br /&gt;
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I remember back when everyone hated p90s, that thing had no range or power and overall sucked.&lt;br /&gt;
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You only get two M203s if your not using scavenger or the more common One Man Army. I literally see two or three people on my team per game using that stupid backpack, it's complete bullshit. The ACR may not do high damage, but it's high rate of fire and zero recoil means you can full auto the damn thing at any range. I think retards who dare to say the noob tube is a legit way to play should be banned from PSN or XBL and never allowed on any Call of Duty again. It's called a first person shooter, not first person grenade launchers. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:I wasn't aware that we can't SHOOT grenade launchers. I better go tell the guys at Activision/IW/Treyarch. -Chris_Hun7er 02:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is more that games are good and balenced when everything has a place, if people start using snipers at close range and beating shotguns (that's more of a Halo thing, but the snipers quickscope and the shotguns are rather terrible), or shooting 40mm rounds at any range for any reason, it's dumb. The launchers in BFBC2 are well balenced, because they have a purpose and they fill it, and nothing else. The assault rifles in MW2 have a purpose, fill it, and then beat SMGs and shotguns at close range, and half the time snipers at long range. And the Javelin, not that I see it too much, is good against tanks, except, there aren't any, there's infantry and helicopters. A game works when things have a purpose and fill that purpose, but not anything else's purpose, and that's half of what's screwed up in MW2. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Excactly Alex. Bad company 2 had 40mms that had to virtually land on the person to kill them, but with Danger Close an MW2 noob tube will kill people even if they're up to fifteen feet away from the landing. To be honest, I think noob tubes should just be plain removed from Black Ops, and the tube fanboys can suck it while us normal players use our guns. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
:Reality is fanboy the US 40mm rounds have a 5 meter kill radius. meaning that if you are 15 feet away from the blast you are dead as a doornail. the 40mm grenades in bad company are more useful as doorway makers and cover destroyers than as proper suport weapons. what is pissing off alot of us who care about little things called historic accuracy is the fact that even though they say that everyone had to read about MACV:SOG they have gotten few details right. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 18:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's true that the 40mm is not terribly powerful in BC2, but explosives need to be less powerful in games than they would in real life, imagine Claymores with realistic spread, damage, and range, without those stupid little lasers, and without bomb squad. Or frag grenades, they're overspammed as it is. Doing something like that is less realistic, but needed for the game to work. Having something like and AUG in 1968, or a SPAS-12 used by Vietcong around the same time... not so much. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree Alex, because Claymores are really designed to take out a huge radius of enemies, it could easily wipe out an eight man squad. and a frag in a 10 by 10 room would really kill everything inside. If they went for realism, all the 5.56 assault rifles in MW2 would have the same damage and virtually the same recoil, but for balance the TAR is portrayed as extremely powerful, and the ACR weak. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, it just bothered me that they were THAT different, they could have chosen different weapons if they wanted to balence them like that or something, the part that bugs me the most is that COD4 was better balenced AND made more sense, it's just such a step back... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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All you people whining and crying about grenade launchers and snipers need to quit bitching and cowboy up. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Linked to World at War ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It has been conformed that Reznov from World at War will appear in this game and even make comments about Dimitri Petrenko. This was seen on the Call of Duty Wiki&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes, as Reznov is more or less confirmed to be the bearded man you meet and then split from in the tunnel rat scene at E3. I'm happy to see him back, as he made World at War even better for me, maybe now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot; [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;now he'll continuously yell &amp;quot;Fire the Javelin!&amp;quot;&amp;quot; What's a Javelin doing in the cold war? Oh wait I forgot, it must be a secret prototype no one knew about.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Alright, I was thinking in an MW2 state of mind, lemme see. I know, how about him always yelling &amp;quot;FIRE THE LAW&amp;quot; in your ear every two seconds when something as small as a jeep shows up &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Any links to zombies?&lt;br /&gt;
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== Has it occured to anyone that the AR-15 variant is probably custom made? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Treyarch has said that these guys could have guns custom built just for them, which I feel explains things much more adequately than just saying that they're prototypes of future (to them) guns. My theory is that he had a CAR-15 custom made with a flat-top reciever for tactical reasons. Maybe this caught on with the rest of the team, and whatever manufacturer they got to make these guns for them sold the idea later on. Of course this is just an excuse for the guns having the rails just to free it up for attacthments in Multiplayer, but at least there is some kind of excuse. Unfortunately this theory doesn't cover the anachronistic appearances of the SPAS-12 and the AUG, but hey, no game ever get's all of it's guns 100% correct.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Edit: Actually it just might explain the AUG, because all it really is is a combination of ideas taken from the Enfield EM-2,&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Korobov TKB-022, and several other abandoned designs from before or shortly after World War 2. The only thing it doesn't explain is why it has the production-style built in telescopic sight, instead of the original prototypes open sights:&lt;br /&gt;
[[http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:I can deal with the CAR-15 because it's at least ''plausible'', but the &amp;quot;SOG got it first&amp;quot; excuse doesn't work with the guns that didn't yet exist. The AUG isn't just a customized version of another gun, it's a standalone design on its own. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== For those of you who may be confused about the supposed MP5/UMP hybrid ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This is what I'm talkin about:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:CODBO-SMG.jpg]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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As you can see, it appears that it has the reciever and magazine housing of an MP5 or MP5K, while the barrel housing (correct me if I'm incorrect in calling it that) looks like that of a somewhat shortened UMP. If you look closely, you will note that it has the MP5Ks finger guard (I'm guessing that's what that is) directly below the muzzle that looks like a cut down version of the full handguard found in this picture:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:MP5Kprototype.JPG]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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My point is I don't think it's a hybrid at all, merely an MP5K missing it's forward vertical grip, for some reason or another. And seeing as every other aspect of the gun is that of an MP5Ks, I think it's safe to say that's what it is, so I'm gonna change it to that on the front page. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It ain't a hybrid, it is a real gun altogether. After doing some research I think I've found the gun or rather guns that it could potentially be. My first guess is:&lt;br /&gt;
*The H&amp;amp;K SMGI &amp;amp; II&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=103:smg-i-a-ii&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
*And second guess being the MP5 PIP&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;amp;view=article&amp;amp;id=102:mp5-pip&amp;amp;catid=11:rare-prototypes&amp;amp;Itemid=5&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 19:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== G11 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone else as excited as I am for the inclusion of the G11? [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 19:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Just another anachronistic gun. Thats all. --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I sure as heck am. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fanc]] 23:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh the gun itself isn't that big of a deal to me, but I definitely am excited to see something that to my knowledge hasn't been in an FPS before. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Well, it have appeared already in few other FPS games. For example [[Delta Force: Land Warrior]], [[Global Operations]], [[IGI 2: Covert Strike]] or Code of Honor: The French Foreign Legion  --[[User:Werc|Werc]] 04:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Those games are not up to the modern standard, though. ;) [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Really, you could say this is the G11s first appearance in a well known game, and will finally show it off to the masses. I love the weapon itself, and to see it finally make a big appearance like this makes me quite happy.[[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== XM214 Microgun ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Since it's going to cover the Vietnam era, and the way these types of games like to go over the top, do you think there's a chance that the XM214 Microgun is going to make an appearance?  I know it was only a prototype, and was it was made in the 70's, but I thought I read somewhere that the SF guys tried it out only to find that it was not feasable having a gun fire at 4,000 rpm.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think putting a Minigun in the game would be kind of stupid. I mean sure they could make it heavy and awkward to carry, but that thing would simply decimate anyone in it's path, whether they're behind light cover, in a vehicle or just in the open. I'd love one, but methinks not. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== A more plausable fictional AR-15  ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I can understand a frankengun, like some special forces guy back then would take several kinds of AR-15 designs and mash them together until he gets an awesome gun that works. And being special forces, they can get whatever they want to suit their mission, so it would make sense for whatever they take to not be standard issue or that it is known, but I don't like the flip up iron sights since I don't know when flip up irons came about or the flat top receiver. It's like they just took a Colt Model 933 and replaced the stock with an old style stock from the CAR-15. I mean, put a telescoptic stock on an M16A1 rifle, or A2 upper reliever on the Car-15 and swap out the pistol grip or something. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That would make sense considering the special forces style of the game. Also, Sonny (from Deadliest warrior and such) was on as an advisor for Spetsnaz and tactics, so look for both some epic Spetsnaz moves and even a character of him in game! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Do we even officially know yet what model AR-15 it is, aside of course from the flattop reciever and flip-up sights? [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 02:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It pretty much is a Colt Model 933 without a brass deflector or forward assist, which actual does not exist. I have not seen a flat top reciever without the forward assist and the brass deflector. I don't even think flip up irons were invented back then. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I mean if they threw in a CAR-15 tricked out like the ones seen in Black Hawk Down, I'd have no complaints [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:+1. but they though it would look too bulky from first person perspective.&lt;br /&gt;
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agreed. that movie was amazing. i wouldnt even care if you couldnt use the tac-lights but still the CAR-15s they had in that movie were amazing. does anyone no what the difference between CAR-15 and Colt Commando models are??? [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 23:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New weapons! ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's [[http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:GunWall.png]] a pic of a bunch of airsoft guns Treyarch has on a wall in their studio which pretty much confirms that they'll be in the game. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From left to right, starting at the top:&amp;lt;br ?&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-M16A2 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MAC-10 w/ supressor&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-AUG&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Mini-Uzi&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-L85&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Scorpion SA Vz 61&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
-AKs-74u&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-Another Skorpion&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-SPAS-12&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-MP5 (?)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Not sure exactly what the MP5 is doing as there already is the K variant prototype, and no idea what the HELL the M16A2 is doing there as there's already an M16A1 AND a CAR-15. What do you all think?&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry it's a bit blurry.&lt;br /&gt;
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It could be a very blurry M16A1 or maybe because they somehow can bullshit their way into saying they got a prototype M16A2. And I prefer us to use the full size MP5 again. Looks like they got an L85 here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: That pic is here too :) Check out &amp;quot;extras&amp;quot; section in article :D&lt;br /&gt;
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:The L85 got my gun-boner up, been wanting that since the MW2 L86 LSDisapointment. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Dude, put that away. :P [[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 12:23, 22 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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We might also see the Browning HP because of the rumored &amp;quot;Iranian Hostage Situation&amp;quot; level. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:I wouldn't be surprised, but if I see another Desert Eagle, then I'll have to wtf. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
::Deagle prototype and AA12 prototype + level is moved to Buckingham Pallace to add more drama to the game. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::Sorry, Buck Palace? Explain this? I assume this is a rumour, since so far Operation Nimrod has yet to be confirmed aswell. Sounds interesting though (if a little rediculous and implausible)&lt;br /&gt;
::::just kidding. I just jumped on the Black Ops bandwagon [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Im guessing the a2 is used since its more availible and when they do motion capture it would look the same. showing how someone moves with a m16 s what they're looking for,&lt;br /&gt;
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:Also, the footage showing the Spetsnaz game models doing rolls shows the player holding and firing a clearly Vietnam era M16A1, so that's there for sure. Also, I do believe the Iranian Embassy raid will be tacked on much like Mile high Club in CoD 4, simple as a fun epilogue style bonus mission. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
a quote from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops&lt;br /&gt;
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I really hope there's a Browning HP, cause it's cool and cause I'm Canadian lol. It might be in to be honest because in COD4 the Overkill and Last Stand pics had a Glock and then it was added in MW2, and the Overkill pic in WAW was a Browning HP :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope its just &amp;quot;iranian embassy raid inspired&amp;quot;, not the real thing, i want more than 6 guys to shoot.&lt;br /&gt;
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:This is Call of Duty, so you'll always have plenty of enemies to shoot. And yeah Alex, as a fellow Canadian, a Hi-Power would be a nice handgun to have in the game, and period correct. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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As much as I love the Hi Power and actually owning one, I don't want to see one in a game such as call of duty just because of the attention it will recieve from nerds spamming videos on youtube &amp;quot;HEY THIS GUN IS IN CALL OF DUTY!!!!1&amp;quot; It gets really annoying and that kind of attention seems negative to those that actually collect guns. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Partially agree with you there. I hate the attention guns get from these games (and suddenly every 12 year old becoming a firearms expert [yes, obviously the M16 is better than the AUG just because CoD says so]) but, I enjoy being able to play with them. Win some, loose some. Well, one or two firearms forums have noticed a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for the 'ACR'. As have a few rifle stores in the 'States that I know of have been plagued by idiot teens looking for hi-tech military grade gear...&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope there is a HP, they need a 9mm gun for MP (more ammo, less recoil, but less damage) and Id rather see a cool gun then a lame generic beretta coming in.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wouldn't mind seeing a Browning HP, (heck Indiana Jones used one, who wouldn't?) But then again it may look just a little bit too similar to the M1911 that's already confirmed for this game, so it's addition might be just a little visually redundant. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 05:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Hi-power and m1911...look similar? It sounds like &amp;quot;Elephant&amp;amp;Rhino look alike&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;M16 looks like AK 47&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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I said they look similar. Not exactly alike. Besides, when it comes to COD, all of the guns are supposed to be easily distinguishable on the fly. If they gave one a different finish it'd be perfectly fine.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Maybe so, maybe not, but all I'd like to hope is that the bloody ACR doesn't return, or else I'm burning down Treyarch studios. Honestly, MW2 just had cool and shiny guns that everyone would like, as opposed to realistic and proper guns used by militaries and militias. Of course the AK needs rails and a retractable stock, that makes it cooler! And of course we have the Barret, because it's big and makes a loud boom! And of course we have a Glock 18, because it's a Glock! I swear, it's like the IW developers had no idea what real special forces, Rangers, Spetsnaz and Militia would be equipped with, and instead went solely with cool, popular and impractical guns. Black Ops sounds like it's trying to be period correct, or at least have some different guns that other games. Sure there's an anachronistic AUG, but atleast it's not an ACR or Intervention in 1968! Rant complete! Also, I've heard lots of rumours of the Beta being released August 1st, anyone got any info on that? [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I've heard that rumor too, but as far as I know it has no information to back it up&lt;br /&gt;
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some guy was selling beta codes on ebay (£12 for a demo!!!) but they have been pulled. unluckey for the 10 people that bought them as the guy was new and had (0)--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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They don't really need a high cap 9mm, while it wouldn't be realistic but they could do it like they did in WaW. I remember reading something about a old guy that was killed in his home and over 30 guns stolen and he had a Uzi and a FAL. The guy was in his 70s as I recall and someone said &amp;quot;a uzi and a fal? LOL someone plays to much MW2!&amp;quot; even though the guy most likely never heard of MW2. The FAL used to be fun to look up on Youtube, I discovered it through sportsman guide as a parts kit so I looked it up on youtube and it was just educated comments about the gun. Same video a few months later after MW2 came out it was just gaming nerds that thought they knew guns commenting. I don't want to see this happen to the gun thats in my shoulder holster. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:COD nerds. Sooner or later they`ll grow out of it(like i did with Counter Strike) [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Or not.&lt;br /&gt;
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Who gives a damn if they do, what are you gonna do, buy a brand new gun, buy the most obscure handgun you can think of? Every profession, field of study, or interest gets its day in the limelight(save for the really boring ones), and videogames are doing this for guns. Do you think that symbologists enjoyed when the Da'Vinci code came out? They were probably just as annoyed as you for all the dilettantes who thought they suddenly knew something about symbology. What the hell are you gonna do? Nothing, I say. --[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 05:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I plan on owning guns when I grow up, have already handled and shot many guns, and yet I still plan to play CoD as an adult. You know why? Because I enjoy online gaming, and because oddly IRL you can't shoot people and get away with it (outside of airsoft, which I also play) [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Jigsaw, it appears as though you misread my post, I don't want them to include it because I hate the negative and dumbass attention guns online already attract. I feel as though my sport is tainted because of all these idiots. I'm fine with other games including it that aren't as mainstream but CoD is idiot infested. The 1887 Winchester is a perfect example, I learned about it from terminator 2 and thought it was cool and all and comments on those videos were either people that found out about it the same way and shooters. Now they are filled with nerds talking about it in MW2. Its seriously annoying. Seeing how you people come from video games and not shooting you won't be able to understand. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well you never addressed the negative attention bit in your original post, but still, how are you going to stop them? Sure it's annoying but it's nothing to stew over. And I like how you assume that we're 'from' gaming and not a shooting history so we obiously can't know how you feel. Also, your page says you're seventeen, I didn't realize that minors could get CCWs, or was that shoulder holster talk figurative, or do you live on a ranch or something?&lt;br /&gt;
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It was in my own home and it was for real. Don't need a CCW to carry anyway. I never said I'm gonna stop them or make a petition or anything, I was just expressing my point. Yes I did address the negative attention. Alot of you on here in the video game section have more experiance with video games than actual firearms. I know someone that has made it so you he has to approve comments because of the videos of his Beretta M93r.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm also extremely proud that even at 16, I came from liking and learning about guns from sources outside of video games. Hell, even if I first see a gun in a game, I'll research it to learn some proper information, not the awesome CoD-Knowledge so many kids think they have nowadays. Literally, I had a kid telling me the ACR was better then the AK-47 the other day because &amp;quot;It's better in MW2, which is really close to real life&amp;quot;. I laughed at him for a minute, then went on to own him with a five minute talk on the AK-47, which he promptly retorted to by leaving the game. Cod kids 0, Me 1 [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Eh I shoot when I can, but I mostly just read up on just about everything I can learn about a certain gun once I see it in a movie/game/real life. I wish I had more time to shoot. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 04:50, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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i hate it when people talk about the intervention sniper as being amazing. ok in real life its very powerful, and i first learnt about it from a film and i thought it looked ugly. i also hate the annoying 10 year olds with the duel shotguns, modern warfare 1 was a great game and tactical, MW2 was more tacticool. especially when you get kids, that shouldnt own the game but are spoilt enbough to get there parents buy it, they lecture you on guns like they have them in their living room and use them constantly. i like the ACR it looks cool, i know it as the 'magpul masdasa' but no one on COD as ever hear of the name. i would like to see pistols as secondary, they balance out the game and dont make it unfair. i would like them to make pistols louder to make them feel powerful rather than a crappy sound that seems quieter than a hole puncher--[[user:smish34|smish34]] 13:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Well, i always though that ACR looks terrible. First seen it in Future Weapons and only thing that i liked was fact that i can fire both 5.56 and 7.62. Intervention ? This is one of first guns that i heard about first in MW2. I imediattly googled some real life info about it :)&lt;br /&gt;
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So did I. By the way, is it even called the Masada anymore? I thought Remington bought the rights and renamed it 'Remington ACR'. Oh well, either way I'm still gonna call it the Masada, it sounds better, and MW2 kiddies won't know what I'm talking about. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I always thought it was a silly name for a weapon. You ARE aware of what happened to Masada, correct? Yes, it's a great example of defiance in the face of incredible odds, but the fact remains, everyone eventually killed themselves. (Or each other, but you know what I mean.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It was designed by Magpul under the Masada name and then Bushmaster started building them.  Then came Freedom group that bought Remington and they decided to buy bushmaster. So now the bushmaster ACR has the remington name on it even though they have nothing to do with design or manufacturing.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 16:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Ah, I see. And I had no idea that happened to Masada, I'll have to look into that. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 17:49, 31 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Well, from what I've heard as a heavy rumor from many places, tomorrow could be the release of the Black Ops Public Beta. It seems logical, as it gives roughly two and a bit months of Beta before it's closed so Treyarch can finish the game off for the November release, but then again maybe not. All I can say is, fingers crossed, because tomorrow we could be going deep and going hard men![[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Tommorrow? Now I seriously doubt that. I don't think they can just drop a public beta on us like that without an official announcement. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 01:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::It's happened before, and if not released tomorrow, maybe they announce it tomorrow then release for Monday. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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well they havent confirmed nor denied the beta but some hackers found the codes a few months ago, they also found the halo reach beta codes months before it was announced. but i think they would give some indication on wether or not they are, also there was this guy selling codes on ebay a few days ago, definatly fake, and they have been pulled [[user:smish34|smish34]]&lt;br /&gt;
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While i'm not fully aware of the differences between the ACR and the Masada, but the most notable is the location of the charging handle. The Masada has it over the ejection port while the ACR has it over the forend. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but I heard on youtube I heard that it was originaly call the magpul masada, but they changed the name because they didn't want the name masada on there gun so they changed it to the name acr. Liek I said if I'm way of correct me.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Anyone Take Notice?==&lt;br /&gt;
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During one of the gameplay videos, did anyone take notice to the AK-47 icon (where it said &amp;quot;Hold X For AK-47)? It looks a bit colored instead of grey (meaning i noticed some orange in it as well) [[SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Those Icons are only grey, no color. It had to be behind it giving it the appearance of orange.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Well...i was looking at this image and it LOOKS colored (the stock)[[User:SeanWolf]]:&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:CODBO-AK47blip.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
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: That looks coloured to me too. Hmm, that's interesting. And it's not like it's all one color, like something could be behind it giving it the illusion of colour, the reciever seems to be some kind of a metallic blue while the wooden handguard and stock seem to be orange-ish. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah it is, Thats what I get for not looking at it. Thought it would have been the same as before. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== New Trailer ==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_fsM6LBi54&lt;br /&gt;
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Straight off the bat, there's a FAMAS, Ballistic Knife, and what some people on the CoD wiki have claimed to to be an Arctic Warfare type sniper rifle. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:...and an exploding RC car. Interesting...--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 18:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::''Holy hell...they've stopped trying.  Depending on how any demo and reviews are, I might just buy it for the single player, but the multiplayer is completely out of the question.  They took Modern Warfare 2 - which wasn't the best of bases to start with - and made it worse.  Just like Treyarch, I suppose.'' --[[User:Clutch|Clutch]] 18:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: It looked a lot better than MW2 to me. A lot of the minor details looked the same, like the kill medals at the top of the screen, but other than that not much looked the same. And I do believe that was an Arctic Warfare, but I'll have to look a little closer before I'm sure. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Watched it again: Yes, that is an Arctic Warfare. And another thing to note, the FAMAS was missing it's carry handle! Again, Treyarch? Really? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 19:14, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:There IS a FAMAS without the carrying handle, but it's a DMR and the carrying handle is removed solely to mount a scope on it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::kind of like this.--[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 19:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:Famascoddmr.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The one in the game is EXACTLY like this thing. Even though it's a FAMAS again, it does look kinda cool despite the fact that this gun never existed during the Cold War...this is stupid. They got an AR-15 that shouldn't exist, an Accuracy International Arctic Warfare that shouldn't be in the game, the AUG, which might not exist in the game either, and now a FAMAS that shouldn't exist. They going to pull anything else out of their asses? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Unless they've gone down the &amp;quot;we don't care that it's not historically accurate, we're trying to make it fun&amp;quot; route. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 20:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Mind you, all of this is from multiplayer. It's multiplayer, there's no story, no setting. Why can't they use anything they want? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: You do know this places THROUGH OUT the cold war. This is also a MULTIPLAYER trailer, so a number of weapons that appear through out the game can appear. Now, I'm not defending this game, I don't even play CoD anymore. But I'm just saying the fact's about the game. I mean...Yes, if the Accuracy International Arcticle Warfare appeared in single player in a Vietnam mission, then yes, &amp;quot;What the hell...&amp;quot; But this is a multiplayer teaser. (Just to say the Accuracy International Article Warfare started producing in 1982 which the Cold War was still up and running) Please don't rant at me, as I'm just giving the fact's about the game. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 20:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Ok, if a gun appears in the MILTIPLAYER, then it most likely will appear in the game. I have yet to see a shooter game that has guns that appear in the multiplayer mode NOT appear in single player. I've seen the reverse, like in MW2, the SVD appears in singleplayer, but not multi. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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And to ADD to that, yes we know this game takes place THROUGHOUT the cold war, which was official between the end of WWII and 1989 ish. The FAMAS wasn't even in production until 1995. The AUG might be excused but the year the mission took place when it made an appearances is 68 and the weapon wasn't even patented until 77. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Could someone edit the Famas section?It says that it appeared in multiplayer foor&lt;br /&gt;
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The creators said that the guns that they have are prototypes so some of them will be used when not in service.&lt;br /&gt;
:Well the creators are bullshitters. You're telling me the French created the FAMAS carrying handleLESS prototype almost 20 YEARS before it was put into service? And the G2 rail version even which was made in 2001? I might forgive the AUG somewhat, but there is so much bullshit I can take here. There are so many other weapons Treyarch could use, but they had to try to somehow bullshit the weapons from MW2 into this game instead of being original. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:47, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah I agree that Treyarch could have picked another gun, but if you think about it all the recent call of duty game (Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2) not all the guns that are used in the game would be used at that time, but they are little thing like the w1200 wouldn't be used in 2011 and the wa2000 in 2016 so maybe the famas and the ar 15 are the acceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
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MW2 is a different kind of weapon selection. It takes place in an unspecified &amp;quot;near future&amp;quot; kind of storyline or present day. All the weapons in the game exist in the current timeframe. MW2 isn't a period piece game, COD from 1 to 3 were all WWII games and Modern Wafare is well, as the title goes, &amp;quot;Modern Warfare.&amp;quot; Black Ops takes place within the Cold War, a time before 1989, so any guns before than is acceptable. Sure, seeing a gun that won't be out in the open market for another 2-3 years, yeah I can accept that. A lot of prototype weapons are like that, but the FAMAS is in a game that is more than a decade before the concept inception of said weapon. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's a bit more than a decade. The game's set in 1967/68, so a good thirty-odd years before it was conceived. The problem is, they could have inserted the real FAMAS prototype, no problem (1971, compared with 1974 for the AUG). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 23:13, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I heard that treyarch isn't going past the 1980 mark.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ok I agree with maybe Treyarch just abused the prototype thing, but they can always take the famas out, they look at the forums.&lt;br /&gt;
:I don't think they do [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:24, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the new multiplayer video did anyone see the guy roll out the way around the :36 mark? - the marksman.&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like he jumped and slide away from the gunfire. I hope we get to do that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: We can. If everything else from that old Multiplayer rumor is also true, which is a very real possibillity as a lot of it was confirmed or all but confirmed in that trailer, it will be a standard mechanic and won't need any kind of a perk or anything. Also, I've just gone ahead and decided to completly disregard this game realism. It's obviously trying to be some sort of &amp;quot;Modern Warfare back in time&amp;quot; deal, so at this point I'm just hoping it's fun. And that's all that will really matter in the end, right? [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, I can't accept that! Call of Duty originated as a game that takes place in a set time frame and immerses you in it with historical accuracies. Every game except for MW2 has been very accurate, especially when compared to other video games. If they wanted all these modern guns, then why make the time frame set in Vietnam/the Cold War? Why all of a sudden do they only care about making it look cool instead of providing us with realism like they always have? With the FAMAS G2 FELIN and the Accuracy International Rifle, they are officially bullshitting about the fact that these are prototypes in the Vietnam War. There can be no more arguments against that fact. But why do they have to do that to what was once such a legitimate series?&lt;br /&gt;
:::Look around on this page, and we go into why they chose the time period they did. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Money. Most consumers don't care or even know that most of these guns weren't around in the game's time period, they don't even really care about the Singleplayer, they just want cool guns in their Multiplayer. Of course I don't agree with this at all. 02:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That still doesn't make sense to me. Call of Duty got its very successful start making realistic games. When it came out Call of Duty 4 was one of the best selling games ever and it's one of the most legitimate modern war games I've ever seen. Based on that you would think that people like seeing an accurate game.&lt;br /&gt;
:::First off, a game where you can single-handed kill half the German army is not that realistic. In fact, I personally think it's a bit insulting to the real veterans who only had one life and no continues to play with. Second, MW2 wasn't realistic and it still sold a bajillion copies. Yes, it's about the money. Don't like it? Then don't spend your gaming dollar on it. Our wallets are our votes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Obviously being able to kill a million people isn't realistic. Perhaps a better word would be accurate. You can tell in the first 5 Call of Dutys they made a good effort to get their shit right. Now they don't even try. I don't understand why they stopped trying with MW2 and now why Treyarch is following suit. I wouldn't buy any of these games but there's no more realistic or accurate games coming out anymore and I can only play the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games so much before I get tired of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd like to make a small correction, the FAMAS was designed from 1967-1971 and the first generation FAMAS's entered service in 1978. Dose this mean you'd see a G2 in the Vietnam war, no but a prototype without a carry handle could hypothetically have exited in the time of the game.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== I think this is actual FAMAS Prototype ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Isn it ? Whatever. It will be awesome if actual prototypes of guns will get in.&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:FAMAS_PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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If it is than they won't put it in, doesn't look as cool you know, thats what counts.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Pepole please acquant yourself with the FAMAS's history here. Thank you. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS]&lt;br /&gt;
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== The COD wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked over at the COD wiki and it is a nightmare over there on their format and what little info they put on their pages and disregard the &amp;quot;gun nerds&amp;quot; on any contributions. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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That's because there's a policy against adding IRL info to the weapon articles. Although I've just been having an argument with someone who was convinced the FAMAS here was an F1. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:52, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Have they ever seen the F1 FAMAS, it has the carrying handle. Only the FAMAS G2 had the option of getting no carrying handle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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His initial argument was that it couldn't be a G2 because it had a small trigger guard and was using the proprietary magazine, rather than the large hand-guard and a STANAG magazine (despite the G2 being able to fit+feed both). [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Then this FAMAS don't exist either in the real world like the Ar-15. The developers are also looking at &amp;quot;Black Ops&amp;quot; history wrong. The concept of today's special forces were really different back then during the Cold War. It's not the same kind of people or style as it hasn't been refined  like today Spec Ops. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm over at Cod wiki right now.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Those are definitely explosive tips==&lt;br /&gt;
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The attachment on this picture:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.imfdb.org/images/7/77/Codblackopsunkownattachment.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
is definitely explosive tip for crossbow.&lt;br /&gt;
just watch the trailer and stop at 0:30 and look in the killfeed.&lt;br /&gt;
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/804/callofdutyblackopsmulti.png&lt;br /&gt;
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==A nice detail==&lt;br /&gt;
Look at 0:09 in the new trailer, there is clan tag written on the AR-15 charging handle.&lt;br /&gt;
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Yeah, I noticed that. I like that little touch. But I hope it doesn't just copy his clan tag from next to his name and paste it on the charging handle, I hope I can have something written on my gun without having to have a clan tag. I don't particularly like clan tags, mostly because I hate clans. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 02:55, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ballistic knife==&lt;br /&gt;
would the Ballistic knife be listed as a firearm or not?&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe it does shoot a projectile even thought it is not a firearm.&lt;br /&gt;
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No because its not a firearm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 00:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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To be fair though, the crossbow isn't a fire arm, but it is a ballistic weapon. And isn't the Punisher's compound bow up even though THAT isn't a firearm? Just put up the ballistic knife.--[[User:True Night]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a better idea: Since they aren't firearms, let's remove the crossbow from this page and the compound bow from the ''Punisher'' page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Snub Nose ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I went over to cod wiki and there is a page about a snub nose attachment for the colt python&lt;br /&gt;
Confirm?&lt;br /&gt;
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I swear I saw snub nose in the new Multi-player trailer. Maybe faster draw?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Went back to the video and I saw it, the guy is switching to it. http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/319/snubnose.png[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hmm...Snubnosed=less accuracy+shorter range= more XP per kill? [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably the same logic that it somehow gets more damage with a shorter barrel like the double barrel shotgun in WaW. I'm leaning more towards a faster draw.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anachronisms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can we please not say that the guns are anachroistic on the actual page? Because Me, along with alot of other people, agree that we really don't care about anachrosisms so please can we just limit comment about anarchistic guns to th talk page please? Thank you. [[User:Drjuki|Drjuki]] 20:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then what's the point of a discussion page if we can't DISCUSS about shit? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Also, since this ISN'T the Call of Duty Wiki, where it is full of people who can't accept REAL facts, I am undoing all the erasing of pointing out that the guns are anachronistic. Cause that's how I roll [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm one of those people who don't think it'll affect the quality of the game, but I do believe it should be pointed out. I also believe we'll be able to make a better judgement call on whether or not these are truly anachronistic or just victims of an alternative timeline once the game actually comes out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 22:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Drjuki, the whole point of this whole site is the guns and this page is to discuss the ones in the game. And like Excalibur said, this isn't the Call of Duty Wiki where factual real world information about said guns is against the rules. So, yes, we ''are'' going to point out anachronisms. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Although I do think it should be noted on the page when a certain firearm is anachronistic, I also think it should be simply noted, not ridiculed. Not sure if there really is any on this page, actually haven't looked at it in a while, but it's been a problem on other pages, with commments such as &amp;quot;Aparently they did no research&amp;quot; and such. Our job here is to jot down the facts, not intermingle them with our own thoughts. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well that's just it, we don't have the facts. We have images, and no context. Why not just wait until the game actually comes out? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 03:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
The context of the trailers and images is that the game takes place during the Cold War period and we have a gun like that AR-15 carbine. No forward assist or brass deflector and the weird magazine. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The context of a three minute trailer, or multiple three minute trailers that tell us nothing? I'm fairly certain I've seen all the trailers, and yet I can't tell you what the overall goal of the campaign is. What are we fighting for? To prevent nuclear war? Assassinate rogue agents? Who's the villain? Is there one? It can all be a dream, or a fevered hallucination for all we know. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the plot was paper thin. It's MP that sells the game. The only reason why there's a campaign at all is because they can't sell the game for full price if it's only MP. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::We can ridicule anachronisms if we want, it's a discussion page where we can say what we want. And yeah they didn't do their research or worse straight up ignored the fact these guns didn't exist back then. I think more of us would agree that Treyarch failed on the firearms.&lt;br /&gt;
::: Seriously. Only firearms ?&lt;br /&gt;
I wasn't talking about the discussion page, I was talking about the main page. Say whatever you want here. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 15:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:No one was really talking in the main page. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Well good, let's keep it that way. It's been a problem on other pages, with ''much'' less incorrect details than this game, so I was just trying to keep it clean here. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)Im sorry but if you are going to put a gun that wasn't even in development until 2001 in a game set pre 1989 then you may asweel put an ipod in too. It's just silly, those guns were made with materials and machinery that didn't even exsist. I'm personally hoping that there is a surprise mission that takes place in a more modern setting.--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 12:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Watch the ending of the Campaign reveal that.... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The SOG soldiers are back in time to prevent a nuclear war, and they brought all their guns and equipment from the future with them. That would just make my day, would be so awful it's hilarious. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Honestly, I'll cry if that happens. In the metaphorical sense, of course. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 22:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dragunov? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the new Prestige Trailer [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HreDGcQus]], people have speculated that the rifle the sniper is carrying at the end is a Dragonuv. Anyone concur?&lt;br /&gt;
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watch ust before he blows up, the stock and the positioning are from the draganuv --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Its a dragonuv. Also I noticed the Dragonuv style scope in the very begining. Do we finally get different redicles for the different rifles?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the action diver had one, too&lt;br /&gt;
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== R/C car ==&lt;br /&gt;
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For Modern warfare 2 it was the nvgs and now we have a R/C car with a camera and a microphone. what are your thoughts on this?&lt;br /&gt;
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Dumb crap makes my wallet giggle... --[[Special:Contributions/99.65.211.227|99.65.211.227]] 09:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Retarded gimmick is retarded.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Some prototypes photos ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So... When Treyarch decides to put prototype guns, why not choose actual prototypes ? &lt;br /&gt;
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For exmaple '''prototype Famas'''.[http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops#I_think_this_is_actual_FAMAS_Prototype]&lt;br /&gt;
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Post more prototype photos. I wish to see ''AUG, SPAS'' or ''AWM'' prototype.&lt;br /&gt;
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And i have one question - May be Stg. RH-70 some kind of AUG Prototype ? &lt;br /&gt;
[[image:2757881.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I just looked it up, its not a AUG Prototype, its a gun that was meant to be a 5.56 x 45 rifle to replace the G3 as the service arm but its not a AUG prototype.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 04:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The way things are nowadays if it doesn't look cool its not gonna be in the game. Wouldn't surprise me if the G11 is covered by rails.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Probably. It also bothers me that in WaW and CoD4 they actually tested and recorded most of the weapons. We all know there is no way they got their hands on a G11 to test it or record sounds from it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably gonna take sounds from another gun. IMO though that gun is UGLY! --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Who would know what a G11 sounds like? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 19:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a youtube video which i'll post here for you guys of it, probably already infested with CoD nerds posting dumbass things and arguing about MW2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JWCEmCgD8--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Huh, so that's what caseless ammo looks like. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 01:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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The SPAS 12 prototype: (note the shorter barrel and different folding stock): [http://spas12.com/spas/franchimod12a.jpg] &lt;br /&gt;
The AUG prototype (with many differences from the final product): [http://world.guns.ru/assault/aug_pr1.gif]----[[User:Markit|Markit]] 03:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Looks just like the shorter model, combat model I think. I forgot.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:56, 14 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Never mind that gun is pretty much the AUG prototype. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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If the AUG in the game looks like the prototype, I can ignore it, but it looks like the modern variant [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==RPG-7==&lt;br /&gt;
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100812011017/callofduty/images/9/93/RPG7BO.png&lt;br /&gt;
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Can someone put that pic on the page in &amp;quot;RPG-7&amp;quot; section? I got this image from here: http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/RPG-7&lt;br /&gt;
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==Time period and Guns==&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a lot of stuff on this page so I don't know if this has been said or not, but this game takes place in different time periods so that's probably why there is such an array of anachronistic weapons. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally someone said it. The developers said the game takes place in the '''COLD WAR''' not just Vietnam. Everyone keeps complaining about this gun and that gun being anachronistic to 1968 but it looks like a decent amount of this game will take place after that time. I've heard talk as late as the 80's so wouldn't that then make the AUG, SPAS, and FAMAS technically time period correct? --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:That point has been made before, and it becomes moot when a SPAS-12 (developed in the mid 1970s) turns up in the middle of the Tet Offensive in 1968, or likewise when an unchanged AUG A1 rifle appears in the late 1960s when it wasn't even patented until 1974. The &amp;quot;but black ops are so awesome they get secret prototype weapons!&amp;quot; argument would have made more sense if the weapons in question actually existed in the years that specific levels take place in. What the developers are doing is tantamount to giving you an AK-47 in 1943 and telling you that its presence is historically accurate because it was designed in the same era.  --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 19:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even if the game would take place in 1989 ( ''And i guess it wont'' ) FAMAS FELIN will be still anachronistic.&lt;br /&gt;
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== The Best Thing About Black Ops..... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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.. '''None of that goddamned overpowered burst-fire weapons!!!!!!'''&lt;br /&gt;
Now, before you all fly off the handle at me. I just want to say a few things. 1- I am not a member of this site, but I visit it every time I want to identfy a gun used in a movie. 2- I do have real-life gun knowledge, unlike the fools who play Call of Duty and suddenly assume they're gun experts.&lt;br /&gt;
I do realize that many people find 3-round bursts useful in real-life. I see it as unecessary and useless. I'm also going to add that I am a Call of Duty player and I know for a fact that they intentionally make the burst-fire weapons overpowered, which is why I am so glad that it won't be featured in Black Ops.&lt;br /&gt;
:While I can agree with you that the kids who think that playing CoD automatically qualifies them as firearm experts are annoying (I've actually had a kid try to tell me that the AUG, the normal one, is a machine gun and not an assault rifle), and while I can also agree that I don't prefer burst fire weapons to automatic ones in real life, I have to disagree on your main point. The three shot burst weapons in Modern Warfare 2 are not overpowered. How many shots, without stopping power, does it take to kill with the M16A4 or the Famas? One burst, or three bullets, though on extremely rare occasions, it takes four bullets. How many shots does it take, again without stopping power, to kill with a SCAR-H, or a TAR-21? Again, three. So no, the burst weapons aren't over powered. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: That doesn't neccessarily mean it's balanced. It also has a ''much'' higher rate of fire, even ''less'' recoil, if that's even possible, and a farther range, if I remember correctly. Now the M16A4 in MW2 was pretty balanced, but really only because it had a bit of spread with it's shots. The FAMAS, however, was the most unbalanced piece of work in gaming history. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 00:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is really strange to me, since I was much better with the M16 then I was with the FAMAS. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Actually they may have the M16 be some sort of burst fire prototype, after all they got the cool stuff before it exsisted and produced so they just might.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New pics ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
IGN has some new BO pics:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054555152.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Theeeere's that forward grip on the AUG.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054602839.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Okay, the AK mag IS a little off. And the holster looks like the holster for a Walther P38/P1. Any ideas on that shotgun (?) on his back? Or is it an M79?&lt;br /&gt;
:AK has a proper 545 plastic clip with little ribs on the side. But I would more like to see AKS74 in game...&lt;br /&gt;
::Magazine is the proper term.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Shotgun is probably china lake laucher.&lt;br /&gt;
: Yes, it is. '''Russians with China Lake GL'''? Yeah, thats even more stupid, anachronistic and epic failing than  Russians with SPAS.&lt;br /&gt;
::dude...thats the KS-23 shotgun. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
::What makes you think he's Russian? And even if he is, it could be multiplayer for all we know. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: He has SP´s russian model. And i think its SP mission - Because all other &amp;quot;new&amp;quot; screens are from SP :)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-black-ops/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054551731.html?page=mediaFull]&lt;br /&gt;
::::What about the Russians running around with FALs in MW2? or TAR 21s?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::: Yeah. It was really stupid too...&lt;br /&gt;
Inception had the MW2 dream, so you know people are going to call this the &amp;quot;Inception level.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14349501/call-of-duty-treyarch-project/images/call-of-duty-black-ops-20100818054558715.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A) This doesn't really look like a new picture, and B) it looks like he's using 20 round mags, but with 30 round ammo pouches. (Epic fail. WTF?! I'm going to cancel my preorder this instant!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== I think they did it again... ==&lt;br /&gt;
With the fictional flattop ARs, I mean. A screenshot of Frank Woods on the Call of Duty Wiki looks like the M16 he's holding has a flattop just like the AR Carbine. Take a look for yourself [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730204211/callofduty/images/6/6b/M16A1.jpg]. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It does look like the carry handle is missing. Wouldn't surprise me if this M16 is also burst fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: You are wrong. It will have burst fire ( well, you are right in that ) but it will have RIS Rails all over the place. NV Scope and lasers.... sure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can believe it if it has the early night optics that are as large as a professional camera. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Eww.. Its Treyarch. Those optics will be even smaller than they are in our days.&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh right, they'd just take something that DID exist and turn it into something stupid for its time and say black ops can do it [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Galil and KS-23 confirmed at Gamescom 2010==&lt;br /&gt;
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Galil &amp;amp; http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/KS-23 [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
: + Makarov. But get some proper screenshots first. Those from cod wiki are terrible quality.&lt;br /&gt;
::Couldn`t find anything better. Well see more in the upcoming days. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm impressed. I don't think I've ever seen either in a game before. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::KS-23 maybe, but the Galil was Counter Strike. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtnJkjxhog Crap quality! I know, but that was the only way he could smuggle the footage. Makarov pistol around 9:50, KS-23 near end. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Makarov! :D, Then again we are gonna get a crapload of new Makarov &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 15:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I counter them with my Hi-Power! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::No! Then there will be Hi Power &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;! Not my favorite handgun!--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 02:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder if they classify KS-23 as shotgun or rifle/ carbine.&lt;br /&gt;
:Given the capacity (four rounds) and the fact a lot of the available rounds appear to be grenades, maybe a grenade launcher, a Russian equivalent to the China Lake launcher. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The guys at Treyarch must have heard your rants about &amp;quot;Spetsnaz didn`t use the SPAS&amp;quot; and the put the KS in. [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
:KS is yet another anachronism.&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think at this point that's a given. [[User:That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck|That&amp;amp;#39;s One Angry Duck]] 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:OMG GUYS STOP IT! If you point out any more of them we`ll be walking into a soviet base with nothing more then knives and pointy sticks, forced to do roundhouse kicks every 10 seconds to conserve ammo! Treyarch means serious biznis! [[User:Orita Md.41|Orita Md.41]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Black Ops is said to be set in various locations, including Vietnam and Cuba, [3] and judging from weaponry and dates given in the trailer, it is set between 1960 and 2010.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I must paste it once again...[(BTW in CoD4 we had that Pripyat mission in 1995, so I guess Treyarch made another &amp;quot;American/English commandos in Russia after Cold War&amp;quot; mission)(Sorry for my crappy English)]&lt;br /&gt;
: It seems like you are trying to protect Treyarch´s weapons choice, right ? But dont forget that both already seen missions took place in 1968. And they had SPAS-12 and AUG......&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find it hard to believe when they say that this game will take place during the Cold War and now you say there will be a mission taking place in present day? How did you come across that information? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Info is from CoD wikia, but yeah, I forgot that in leaked video those guys had &amp;quot;CCCP&amp;quot; written on their backs, so the mission takes place before 1990s. Sorry for mistake.&lt;br /&gt;
: And what is even better. It has been confirmed that WMD mission takes place in 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== AI Arctic Warfare ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Man, That sucks! IW now decides to put in the awesome AI Arctic Warfare and now it doesn't even fit because it's very anachronistic in this game (as is the Walther WA 2000 and other weapons). Why was it not in the MW series? It would of fit perfectly in the first MW, it would of made more sense in the mission All Ghilled Up than the M14s because )1 it's British )2 it was available at that time (1995 right?). And it would have been far better than stupid Remington 700 in MP, I mean come on, the Remington 700 IS the M40A3! They just decided to make the scope wobble more and gave it the same damage as the .50 cal Barrett M82A1 WTH! MW2's main menu art even has a sniper with AI AW (and also a soldier with a SCAR-L) but it's not even in the game. Well, at least they put the CheyTac M200 Intervention in the game.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You seem to have overlooked the fact that this isn't an Infinity Ward game, it's being developed by Treyarch, who have no affiliation with IW. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they do share the same parent company, Activision. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Even so, I doubt Treyarch would have any say in what weapon IW would put into their game, or vice versa. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 20:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::OK, Then I meant Treyarch/IW. By the way, did Treyarch make both MW games? I'm just making sure.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Treyarch had nothing to do with Modern Warfare, IW made both. Treyarch did COD5. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Alright thanks for clearing that up. I'm just saying it would have made more sense if IW had the AW in the MW games. As I said, it would have fit well both sense wise and realism wise.&lt;br /&gt;
::: &amp;quot;The Accuracy International Arctic Warfare rifle is a family of bolt-action sniper rifles designed and manufactured by the British company Accuracy International. It has proved popular as a civilian, police and military rifle since its introduction in the '''1980s'''.&amp;quot; If you want the real date, it's actually 1982 when the L96A1 came into British Military service. Oh, and the Walther WA 2000 was desgined in the 1970s - 1980s and first produced in the same year as the L96A1 came into service, 1982. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thank you. Didn't the mission All Ghilled Up take place in 1995? That's why I think the AW/L96 would have fit better in MW because your playing as British snipers, Price and the other guy (sorry, can't remember his name). As for the WA2000, what the hell is it doing in MW2?! it's not a Military rifle! (guess it's in there cus they thought in looked cool *sigh*). And in BlackOps, both the AW and WA2000 are highly anachronistic. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Seriously, why can't Treyarch pick weapons that have NOT been in the previous game? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think they're trying to compromise, including familiar favorites like the SPAS and the FAMAS and putting in more obscure (at least by gaming standards) weapons like the Galil and the KS-23. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 14:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Who the hell is using the Israelite Galil in the this game?! I hope not the Russians.&lt;br /&gt;
::::They just needed to have a jew gun in the game instead of TAR.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Oh course, it's that vast international Jewish video game weapon conspiracy. How could we forget? (Jew gun? What are you, a hillbilly?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
== SKS ==&lt;br /&gt;
 Hopefully there will be an SKS in game because with the part of the game taking place in Vietnam, it would make sense to see it in the hands of the Viet Cong.--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 21:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Behind_Enemy_Lines&amp;diff=316888</id>
		<title>Talk:Behind Enemy Lines</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Behind_Enemy_Lines&amp;diff=316888"/>
		<updated>2010-08-21T23:03:45Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Can anyone take a look at the T72 tanks (Burnett walks past one while disguised as a Serbian soldier before removing his disguise and running off) and see if they have any machine guns mounted on top of the turret? The T72's used in the film usually come with [[NSV heavy machine gun]]s mounted on the Tank Commander's hatch on the right side of the turret roof, but I can't remember if the ones in the film had theirs mounted or removed. Thanks in advance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC) Orca1_9904&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Missile==&lt;br /&gt;
What kind of missile was used to shoot them down? [[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]] 21:03, 29 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: It kind of looked like an SA-9. Anybody? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 22:07, 29 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I know the platform, but it's the particular missile, it was like a big flying shotgun. [[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]] 03:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The shootdown is on youtube, and I watched it and paused it a couple of times, and it doesn't look like a real missile, at least not a real Soviet-bloc missile. I looked up all the possible suspects, and nothing matches. And since we're on the subject, the missile that streaked past them probably should've detonated due to the proximity, and since it was near the nose and cockpit, probably should've killed the crew and ended the movie right there. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:36, 30 March 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Alright, thanks! It's been bugging me for weeks what that thing was. And yes there should have been proximity detonation. Although big flying shotgun is pretty cool too![[User:RedJedRevolver|RedJedRevolver]] 00:47, 1 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It was a 9K35 Strela 2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Sasha and Niko Belic resemblence?==&lt;br /&gt;
I was watching this movie a few days ago and something just came across me. The guy chasing Burnett, Sasha, kinda looks like Niko Belic from GTA4 [[User: SeanWolf]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Enemy4.jpg]]  [[Image:niko-bellic1.jpg]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You seriously just noticed this? It's been a meme since GTA4's first trailer.-protoAuthor&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The main villain's son on Call of Duty 4 was based on Sasha too--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 23:03, 21 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:FAMAS&amp;diff=312195</id>
		<title>Talk:FAMAS</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:FAMAS&amp;diff=312195"/>
		<updated>2010-08-10T13:24:24Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Does anyone know if any other countries use the FAMAS besides France?--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 13:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=311651</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=311651"/>
		<updated>2010-08-09T13:26:56Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my age, name, or location but i will let you know that i do own firearms and i am not some dumb kid who plays video games with too much time on his hands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guns that i have shot: Russian SKS, Ruger P94DC, Glock 22, Ruger SR9, Remington Model 870, AR-50 .50 Caliber rifle, AR-15 (both semi and full-auto versions that i shot at my local machine gun shoot), M16A1 (full auto), Russian PPSH (full auto), M2 carbine (full Auto),M1 Garand , Browning M1919 .30 cal Machine gun, Browning M2 .50 cal machine gun, Uzi (full auto), M79 grenade launcher (smoke rounds not HE rounds), Mini 14, Colt Police Positive,Taurus Judge, Ruger M77 30-06, Savage Predator .243, and of course numerous .22's and .410 and 20 gauge shotguns.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=311575</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=311575"/>
		<updated>2010-08-09T01:39:26Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my age, name, or location but i will let you know that i do own firearms and i am not some dumb kid who plays video games with too much time on his hands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guns that i have shot: Russian SKS, Ruger P94DC, Glock 22, Ruger SR9, Remington Model 870, AR-50 .50 Caliber rifle, AR-15 (both semi and full-auto versions that i shot at my local machine gun shoot), M16A1 (full auto), Russian PPSH (full auto), M2 carbine (full Auto),M1 Garand , Browning M1919 .30 cal Machine gun, Browning M2 .50 cal machine gun, Uzi (full auto), M79 grenade launcher (smoke rounds not HE rounds), Mini 14, Colt Police Positive, Ruger M77 30-06, Savage Predator .243, and of course numerous .22's and .410 and 20 gauge shotguns.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=310251</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=310251"/>
		<updated>2010-08-06T01:58:40Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my age, name, or location but i will let you know that i do own firearms and i am not some dumb kid who plays video games with too much time on his hands.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=310248</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=310248"/>
		<updated>2010-08-06T01:57:13Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Hi, &lt;br /&gt;
I wont tell you my age, name, or location but i will let you know that i do own firearms and i am not some dumb kid who plays video game with too much time on his hands.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=310246</id>
		<title>User:Mpe2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=User:Mpe2010&amp;diff=310246"/>
		<updated>2010-08-06T01:53:43Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: New page: Boy that red sure does get annoying&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Boy that red sure does get annoying&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ruger_P-series_pistol&amp;diff=309575</id>
		<title>Talk:Ruger P-series pistol</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.buildlogs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ruger_P-series_pistol&amp;diff=309575"/>
		<updated>2010-08-04T15:22:27Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Mpe2010: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Quality ==&lt;br /&gt;
:I have heard many, many people say that this gun is really crappy and falls apart while firing. My father had a Ruger KP90 that would shoot 3 at a time, which is clearly very unsafe-[[User:S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter|S&amp;amp;amp;Wshooter]] 01:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I rented both a Ruger P89 and a Ruger P345 (the polymer framed version of the P90) at a shooting range a few weeks back. The P89 handled very well while the P345 jammed on every third shot. Given that these were rental guns they were probably much more well worn than a similar gun under different circumstances, so issues with the pistols probably have more to do with wear than inherent quality. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have had a ruger p94dc for a couple years now and it only jammed on me once because of bad ammo&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Mpe2010</name></author>
	</entry>
</feed>