Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:End of Watch

2013-10-12T12:23:36Z

MarineCorps1: /* Shooting a .40 1 handed */ new section

== Glock 22 ==

Just FYI for anyone that is wondering, I ID'd the Glocks as 22s from a ''Total Film'' article which had a closeup shot of the side of the pistol showing the slide markings. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:21, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

At the beginning of the film, the guy said his gun is a Glock 19 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:36, 23 September 2012 (EDT)

:Look at the bottom discussion topic. if he says that it is a goof, as firstly it is a full size gun so would be a 17 if it was a 9mm, and promotional images show that the physical gun has 22 slide markings. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:46, 23 September 2012 (EDT)

==DEA Weapons?==

Saw a trailer for this earlier, and saw a DEA Agent armed with some sort of [[M16 rifle series|AR]]-type carbine. Anyone think they can ID it for the page? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] ([[User talk:Orca1 9904|talk]]) 09:51, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

Can't see it from all the trailers I've seen. Guess we'll have to wait for the movie to come out. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:07, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

I think that literally all you see of it in the trailer is the fact that it has a Crane stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:34, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

The camera perspective in the scene is from the 'chest cam' so most of its shaky and his hand is covering the trigger and the fire selector is always facing the user so i can't tell what kind of AR-15 it is, other than it's a AR-15 (Had a flat top, FA, full fencing and possably a brass deflector, so i guess assuming it was a M4 would be fine >_>), had a Crane Stock(?), KAC rail covers, a foregrip and was using a EOTech XPS 3 or 2, also seemed to have a short barrel, a educated guess would be a 11.5" barrel. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 11:14, 24 December 2012 (EST)

The barrel looks a bit too long to be the Model 933 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:31, 24 January 2013 (EST)

== 92? ==

Saw this in another trailer

[[File:Endofwatch92.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Can't be 100% on whether the specific model is correct without seeing more of the gun, but think it is actually a [[Smith & Wesson 39]]. Either way, I think it is a S&W auto rather than a Beretta. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:45, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
:That's definitely some kind of Smith & Wesson auto. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:50, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
On closer examination I'll upgrade what I said to it definitely being a S&W 39. Thought it might have been a 439, but you can just make out the hole in the hammer which wasn't there on the 2nd gen pistols. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:33, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

== Any chance the Glocks are actually 19's? ==

I ask because I saw the movie tonight and Taylor specifically calls his Glock a "Glock 19". Now I know normally I shouldn't go by what was said in the script but during one of the POV segments, I think I might have seen a 19 on the slide. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 01:00, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
:I id'd them as 22 based on promotional photos in a magazine article where you could see the "22" slide markings. Will try and see if I can find the shot online. Also they look like they have full length slides to me, particularly in the shot where Zavala is coming through the door. Could be that the two of them are carrying different guns. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:50, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
::Found it:[[File:EOW Glock slide markings.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Hires promotional image showing the Glock slide markings.]]--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:56, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

Perhaps they could indeed be carrying 2 different guns, I honestly can't say without seeing the movie again and potentially a pause button. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 17:56, 22 September 2012 (EDT)
:From that promo image it appears that at least Taylor is carrying a Glock 22 (contrary to the dialogue you quoted), and in other caps

:@Bristow Nope, this is a cap from the exact point where he says "This is the department issue sidearm, Glock 19."
http://i.minus.com/ibaxvcTJVzqYVG.jpg You can clearly see the markings noting it as a 22 in .40SW [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] ([[User talk:Scarecrow|talk]]) 10:50, 24 December 2012 (EST)

Zavala has a full length Glock so if it was a 9x19mm it would be a Glock 17. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:01, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

:Well it wouldn't be the first time what was on the script and what is actually used on the screen is different. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:18, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

::Once again, you guys are over-analyzing too much. The explanation is very simple: The script called for Glock 19s, but the property master/armor chose to bring Glock 22s to the set, and nobody bothered to correct the actors on the inconsistency. It happens all the time (the classic example that comes to mind is ''[[Kiss the Girls]]'', where the film's antagonist calls Alex Cross's sidearm a Glock because the script dialogue was taken straight from the book, even though the gun actually used in the movie is a SIG 226). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 11:03, 24 December 2012 (EST)

:::I just watched the movie last night. Even when Taylor is holding the gun and describing it as a "Glock 19", you can clearly see that the weapon says "22" on the slide. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] ([[User talk:MT2008|talk]]) 15:47, 13 January 2013 (EST)

== Found some caps on a forum ==
Thought I would direct you to them. Perhaps somebody can ID the AR15? 

Revolver: http://i.imgur.com/vhC5i.png 

AR15: http://i.imgur.com/3cAEC.png http://i.imgur.com/KLGXT.png http://i.imgur.com/fA8Te.png http://i.imgur.com/GbLnH.png [[User:Innawoods|Innawoods]] ([[User talk:Innawoods|talk]]) 16:45, 30 December 2012 (EST)

The revolver is a Smith & Wesson 642 as shown on the main page, but apart from spotting the EoTech sight and what I think is a Magpul stock on the AR I have no idea --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] ([[User talk:Taurus96|talk]]) 04:42, 31 December 2012 (EST)

[[File:EoWGlock22FP.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Glock 22 in the officer's POV.]]

== Detective sidearms ==

Can anyone identify the sidearms of the homicide detectives? [[Noahrussell007]]

== Cartel 1911s ==

I know it wasn't shown or mentioned in the movie, but being Mexican cartels, wouldn't the 1911s be more likely chambered in 38 super than 9mm? Hard to tell the distance of the mag channel from the back of the magazine.

== The Engraved Walther PPK ==

I think that engraved Walther PPK found on the cartel member was actually an Astra Constable, based on the Trigger Guard, markings, the square above the trigger, and the slanted slide serrations.

== Realism behind AKMS not penetrating Kevlar? ==

This question really spooks me. In the last shootout scene where Zavala blocked Taylor from the AK spree at point-blank range, is it really possible? I mean, Kevlar is made only to fend off small arms caliber like the 9mm and it far compared with military metal hard body armor plate so if the scene were to happen in reality, most probably Taylor can't survive right... So here's the question, will AK's 7.62x39mm penetrate 2 Kevlars? (Considering 1 for each officer, takes 3 layers to hit Taylor)--[[User:S9771773G|S9771773G]] ([[User talk:S9771773G|talk]]) 11:08, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

The vests that police usually wears won't stop AK rounds but most likely once a round grows through someone, it might have been stopped. If hit on the right spot, you might survive. People have survived being shot with AKs before. It isn't pretty. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:30, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

== Shooting a .40 1 handed ==

When Taylor was wounded in the final shootout when the round hit his hand adrenaline would be going, but does the police teach officers how to shoot 1 handed and could you shoot a .40 cal glock that accurately with 1 hand?--[[User:MarineCorps1|SeoulMan123]] ([[User talk:MarineCorps1|talk]]) 08:23, 12 October 2013 (EDT)

Talk:The Dark Knight

2013-09-19T09:03:57Z

MarineCorps1: /* " Glock 17 (Converted to full-auto)" - Empty gun? */

=Courtroom Glock=
Just added a few shots from the Propstore of London. Great clear images of the modified Glock. They have it for sale at nearly $3000! Whew.--[[User:James3|James3]] 03:54, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

=The Joker's Knives=
==Microtech Combat Troodon OTF Knife==
When the Joker threatens Gambol he uses a Microtech Combat Troodon OTF Knife with black plain drop point blade. In the scene when the dead Batman-impostor is brought down, originally a knife holds the joker card to the body. When it has been pulled out of the body it is a black single bladed Troodon with a serrated blade.
[[Image:143-10.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Michrotech Combat Troodon 143-10 S/E Black Plain Edge is the kind of knife the Joker uses when he kills Gambol.]]
[[Image:Tdk 0651.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker threatens Gambol with a Microtech Combat Troodon OTF Knife.]]
[[Image:Tdk 0662.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Sticks the blade in my mouth...Let's put a smile on that face!" Joker prepares to kill Gambol.]] "Why so serious?!"
[[Image:JokerCard0.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Here is the alternative take where a knife has held the joker card to the body.]]
[[Image:Trosesert120-23.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A 120-23-TACT Troodon S/E Serrated DLC Tactical is the same kind of knife as the one who's pierced the joker card above.]]

==Extractor 1600 OTF Knife==
The Joker's main knife is a Cupid clone known as the Extractor 1600 OTF knife. The exact manufacturer is unknown. As for a note, the one used by the joker has a safety catch on the bottom of the handle. Originally the knife was used to hold a Joker card in the Batman imposter found hanging outside the governor's office. This was replaced in the final cut with a safety pin.
[[Image:Extractor1600.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|Extractor 1600 OTF Knife. Same model as used by the Joker. Even has the safety catch on the bottom of the handle.]]
[[Image:Untitled7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Original footage from the scene with the Batman-impostor. A Extractor 1600 is holding the joker card in place.]]
[[Image:Tdk 1122.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Joker telling Rachel one of his scar-stories as he holds a knife to her face.]]
[[Image:Tdk 1794.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Could you please just give me a minute?" Gordon apprehending the Joker who's got the knife in his hand.]]
[[Image:Tdk 1800.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Joker after Gordon's yanked him to the ground. Knife besides him.]]
[[Image:Tdk 2286.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Why don't we cut you up into little pieces and feed you to your pooches? Hmm? And then we'll see how loyal a hungry dog really is." Joker says to the Chechen before his men take him away.]]

==Nothing in his pockets but knifes and lint==
When the Joker has been caught and brought to the MCU holding cells we see a blue-gloved police officer emptying his pockets and putting several items on a counter.
[[Image:Batman Large knife dark knight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The knife in the guys hand is a kitchen knife of unknown model. Next we have what looks like a Microtech Troodon.
Then there is a knife that looks like a AKC Concord 078. And after that the knife whit it's blade extended looks like a Microtech Makora.]]
[[Image:143-22.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Microtech Troodon is one of the knifes used in the film.]]
[[Image:205ab2.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|An AKC Concord 078 like the one in the film.]]
[[Image:Tqrk-1140027-1.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|An Microtech Makora is also one of the knifes used in the film. This one, the Microtech Troodon and a Microtech H.A.L.O is said to be used in the film according to a spokesperson at Microtech. I've only spotted the first two.]]
[[Image:KnivesAndLint.png|thumb|none|600px|Here is another look at the knifes.]]

==Lancashire Potato Peeler==
The last item the police officer picks up is a Lancashire potato peeler. The handle has a light blueish-green or light orange colored twine.
[[Image:Big_3267.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Lancashire peeler with turquoise twine.]]
[[Image:Tdk 1820.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The surprised officer pulls out an old fashioned potato peeler out of the Jokers clothes.]]

==Rapala Fillet Knife==
On posters and on promotional photos of the Joker you can see him use a long fillet knife. This is most likely a Rapala fillet knife.
[[Image:535342_raw.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Rapala Fillet Knife.]]
[[Image:Promos022.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The Joker with his knife in a promotional photo.]]
[[Image:Jokerposter.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A poster featuring the Joker with a knife and a joker playing-card in his hands.]]

=Discussion=
Do you have any information about the gun used by Harvey Dent when he shot Maroni's men? Thank you. BTW great potential website, I love it. [[Special:Contributions/118.136.36.2|118.136.36.2]] 01:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

:Can I screen this when it comes out? I try to cover new releases plus I did the first one. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::Yeah, sure, I don't see why not. I just have one request - do you by chance have a computer that can play Blu Ray? I keep looking at Legion's Fate's blog with all of his super-high quality Blu Ray screenshots, and I'm starting to get jealous. I think IMFDB needs the same quality images he has. I've seen some images from the Blu Ray version of this movie and they're ''soooooooo'' pretty. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:28, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
:I'll see if I can break for a Blu-ray for my computer. I doubt it will be cheap though. And don't worry about that guy, we're better :).

:Guner313, are you screencapping this or are you just adding some shots? - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:::Well, our info is better, yes. And we have MoviePropMaster2008, our ultimate weapon. But I still think it'd be cool if we had some Blu Ray screenshots. I am looking at Blu Ray players myself, though I'm probably not going to be buying one immediately since my checking account is still hurting from my last gun purchase.

:::BTW, this page already has 20,000 views, due to this movie's popularity, so let's make it extra special. Gotta give people what they want. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

=Page=
Well, it's not Bluray but I still think the images look great. pngs were wierd to use instead of jpgs for the first time but the long load time is worth it for such nice pictures on this page. I hope this is good enough as making it "extra special".

Sorry the page took so long btw, I had a lot to do this week. :P - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

:Unbelievable! Someone removed some of my screencaps like the flashpaper Glock firing. Since it was an anonymous user, I protected the page, but I won't keep it that way forever. Just until this person decides to stop removing my pictures. (some of those images are harder to get then they appears, especially the Glock flashpaper, since frame by frame wouldn't catch it. I had to rapid-tap pause, which took about 10 mins to achieve). :( Sorry to inconveniance people. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

::Yeah, doing screencaps isn't as easy as some would think. It's is hard as hell for some guns that show up for a split second and never seen again. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:16, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

can anyone id the jokers knifes

I would be interested in that. I was trying to Id some of them but I can't really tell, a couple of the ones being set on the table look like kitchen knives.

:Like I did with [[The Punisher (2004)]], I could add all his knives to this discussion section. But I have too much to do right now. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Anybody know how they got the WZ.83 Nabój 40 x 47 mm to shoot a grapple gook. ==

It looked like a practical effect.
*Must be some kind of special effects. The Pallad D shoots only two kind of ammunition fragmentation and smoke grenades. And the 40x47 mm ammo is only produced in Poland. [[Special:Contributions/87.207.56.12|87.207.56.12]] 15:19, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Possibly a CO2 copy.-protoAuthor
*I saw one put the grappling hook into the barrel and fire it. Maybe a grenade launcher modified for the movie. - [[User:Crysis|Crysis]] 16:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

:the could just used blank round to propel the grappling hook

== M16A2 ==

The M16A2 section on the page has a picture with the weapon mounted with a red dot, and the caption stating "Mounted with an Eotech". Either it's mounted with a very deformed EOTech on backwards, or it's something else. Looks most like a Trijicon Reflex (Either RX01 or RX06) attached with an RX10 gooseneck handle mount. Difficult to be more presise, though, with that picture. Are there any better shots of rifles equipped with this sight in the movie?

== Dent's Smith & Wesson Model 64 ==

During the scene where Harvey was pointing the gun to his own head and pulls the hammer back, we see the trigger appears to be pulled back already. Is there something wrong with the trigger? You see in in the screen cap. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:57, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

== M1 garands==
If they are firing live rounds into the air it i'm pretty sure would be much louder than a blank and I would assume the police officers would notice the difference between.

except they would know they are firing a specific amount of shots, and after those shots they would have live rounds, obviously

Isn't the BFA only relevant to whether the blank round cycles the action or not? Is it possible that they could be firing blanks and then manually ejecting the round?

Gordon during the scene does seem put off by the sounds of the guns, although it could also be from the police officers shooting at the rigged window that Batman was standing in

==Blu Ray screen caps==
I would like to redo these caps with the Blu ray versions. Anyone else already working on it? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]] 11 Oct 2009
:I don't think anyone is. Are you going to recap the whole thing? If you are, just save over the existing caps. -[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 22:18, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I would like to redo it. Is the reason why the page takes so long to load is because of the PNG's? [[User: Ben41|Ben41]] 11 Oct 2009
::I didn't notice the PNG deal, i think that may have been done to get better quality pics. This is quoting MPM2008 ''"IMFDB has a policy that screenshots can be replaced by better shots, or full frame (4:3) shots can be replaced by the more preferable 16:9 wide screen shots (by anyone) Someone can replace anyone's screenshots if the replacing screenshots are clearly superior in quality."'' This existing pics are 640x480 - 290kb, yours are 1,230x720 - 88kb. While no one likes their caps being replaced, if the ones replacing it are larger and sharper that is the way it goes. Plus the file sizes being down from 290kb to 88kb, will help it a lot. -[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 21:52, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

::Yes, the PNG shots slow this page down. I can't remember why GM45 chose to use that format (he typically uses JPEG), but not long after this page, we started encouraging members not to use PNG format. If anyone wishes to replace the screencaps, feel free. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 00:50, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Smith & Wesson M76 ==

If you watched the Oscars this year, they did a bit on the sound in the Dark Knight (to use as an example) and it actually showed the sound editors firing a Micro Uzi at full auto, and that's the sound they used for the M76, not a minigun. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 06:06, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

==Batman in other media==

If the live action Batman movies get a gun page, why not "Batman the Animated Series", the TV movie "Mask of the Phantasm" or the current show on Cartoon Network "Batman: The Brave and the Bold"???

:'''"No Cartoons. Anime is a work of art where the Japanese took time and effort to draw, sometimes in great detail, images of firearms despite from a country that prohibits civilian ownership of arms. Only take screencaps from sources that you know for a fact is an image of a gun. We do not accept caricatures of what is supposed to be a gun. Nor do we accept images from cartoons like the Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park unless you have an image for us and anyone can ID right away as a specific gun. If you give us an image of 2 rectangles with a poorly drawn trigger and tell us it's a 1911, then it will be promptly deleted. The same rules to quality images for movies, TV, and games also apply here. Do not post low resolution of anything here or they will be deleted and replaced."''' From the rules. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 15:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Would Batman: Gotham Knight work? It's anime influenced animation just like "Animatrix".

:I have no idea. Best idea would be to ask one of the admins around here. I just quoted the above from the rules as I remember someone asking about cartoons. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 08:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
::If the rules say so, then how come [[The Iron Giant]] gets to stay on this website? It's a cartoon, too. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:22, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
As I said, I don't know. Your best bet is to ask an Admin that '''does know''' the answer. [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] 07:20, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

--- I believe this rule applies to the kinds of cartoons or animations where any weapons used in them are drawn in very poor detail and cannot be positively identified. But for other cartoons and other anime/animation films/TV shows where firearms are drawn in great detail to where they can be positively identified and are already on this site, they are an exception. Animation films such as [[The Iron Giant]] and [[Atlantis: The Lost Empire]] and animes such as [[Black Lagoon]], [[Batman: Gotham Knight]], [[The Animatrix]] and [[Hellsing]] are allowed here on the site because (I am only assuming) the weapons identified in those works can be positively identified to real-world firearms, and they are not some piss-poor drawings of supposed real-world firearms like in other cartoons or animations on TV or in movies. But as [[User:Hoot471|Hoot471]] pointed out, you'll have to ask one of the administrators. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 11:30, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

==Eminem==
When the Batman imposter killed by the Joker is slammed against the mayors window and they've lowered him down, there's a Joker card from a deck of cards on his chest with the words "Will the real Batman please stand up" on it. GREAT! Very nicely done.

...and Eminem rip that off of "To Tell the Truth" game show.

==Penthouse Window==
When the Joker and his mooks crash the fundraiser and the Joker takes Rachel hostage he backs up to a window and points his revolver behind him and shoots and the window right behind him smashes even though his gun is pointed nowhere near the window... and would a high up penthouse window shatter completely from a single gunshot?--[[User:T.H.M.Christensen|T.H.M.Christensen]] 23:25, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

glass that high up in the sky and windows that low to a walking floor has to be tempered glass, which combined with the pressure at that elavation it would most likely cause the glass to shatter like that...but im not mythbusters.

Plus it is also movie glass, which is much more easy to break. In real life, we'd see bullet holes and it would take more than one shot to shatter glass like that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

==Fingerprint==
The shattered bullet in the wall that Batman finds and uses his CSI: Miami computer to regenerate has a fingerprint from when the shooter pushed it into the magazine (or "clip" as Alfred puts it), yet this full thumbprint would be on the casing, not on the bullet itself...Just thought I'd post it here as it's a goof. --[[User:T.H.M.Christensen|T.H.M.Christensen]] 19:16, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Well it's possible for someone to push a bullet down a magazine and then press down the bullet end with his thumb. I've loaded bullets before and sometimes my thumb would touch the end of the bullet, but the unlikeliness of the CSI scan is that when a bullet is fired, the heat alone would have distorted the prints and the impact on the wall and shatter itself would have also messed up the print. And testing a identical size bullet and fired from a different type of gun into maybe not the same kind of wall material would most likely yielded a different kind of impact and would shatter the bullet into a completely different spread in the wall. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:23, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

About your little "clip" quip, (no pun intended,) correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the clip technically the part of the magazine that holds the bullets, making Alfred's statement technically right, although probably unintendedly? [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 18:24, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:Nope. Clips are the things used to load magazines (Like the stripper clips of Mauser pistols, or the Bloc clips of an M1 Garand), and in that kind of magazine, no clip is used.

*The Joker may've loaded the rounds with one hand wrapped around the magazine, using the thumb of that hand to push them in, with the bullets pointed away from his palm. The thumb would touch the bullet right where the print appears, in that case. The entire rest is Hollywood BS, of course. -[[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 17:12, 20 October 2011 (CDT)

==Locked Article==
Is this thing going to be unlocked soon? I kinda want to point out that the Joker had his finger holding back the hammer the entire time (it may have even been under the hammer, in some shots), in the scene where he gives Dent a gun. What a hypocrite! -[[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 17:12, 20 October 2011 (CDT)

== Skorpion Grip ==
On one of the pictures of the Skorpion, the caption notes that the thug is an amateur because he's holding the gun by the magazine. While I know that that's usually the case, where the hell else to you hold a Skorpion? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:53, 27 December 2011 (CST)

==.28 caliber==
I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as .28. Correct me if I'm wrong please--[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 14:55, 26 February 2012 (CST)
:.28 is equivalent to 7mm so I guess 7x20mm nambu would qualify but that is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. More likely they just made it up though. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:02, 26 February 2012 (CST)
::Given that to my knowledge no Chinese company makes a .28 caliber carbon fibre Glock clone, this is all academic for that exact reason. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:27, 26 February 2012 (CST)

== Unknown Shotgun? ==
When Batman is seen punching the thug, preaviously seen with a Mossberg 590 Cruiser, a diffrent gun appears. It seems to have the magazinecap of a Mossberg 590 but it lacks the mountingbar between the foregrip and the endcap wich is standard on such a gun. It looks kinda exactly like a Mossberg 590 Mariner Cruiser, a blued one? Any help?
[[Image:Thedarkknight42a1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Unknown Handgun? ==
One of the Chechens men is seen with an unknown handgun. Could possebly be a Stechkin APS?
[[Image:Thedarkknight16a1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Talking about the man furthest to the right.]]
[[Image:Thedarkknight17a1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The man furthest to the right.]]
[[Image:Thedarkknight19a1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:Thedarkknight20a1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

==Lasers==
I've got an issue with the caption on this image:

[[Image:TDK 708.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Like in most films, the rifles are shown to have lasers which reveal to the target they are under a sniper scope. In reality, lasers are very tactically unsound.]]

While it's true that for a military sniper, who's relying on concealment, a visible laser like this is unsound, I'm not sure that applies to a SWAT sniper who has as much to gain from intimidating the target into surrendering as he does by shooting them, and indeed is operating under conditions where taking the target alive is the preferred option.

Anyone got any thoughts, or is this just me being a mall ninja again? [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:31, 28 July 2012 (CDT)

As both yourself and the caption point out, the SWAT snipers were trying to intimidate rather that shoot. In this case I believe the use of lasers are warranted. --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 17:10, 28 July 2012 (CDT)

== RPG back blast ==

Please add the note about RPG (Norinco Type 69). Even though the provision is made by the director for Joker to fire his RPG safely (directing the backblast through the other opening), the actual firing of the weapon is performed with people standing in the backblast zone and with the rear opening partly pointed at the inside of the truck. In the end, the scenario is plausible enough: if Joker moved a step backwards, directed his RPG rear end at the door and engaged a target he saw through the other door, the back blast wouldn't harm him or his henchmen.

== " Glock 17 (Converted to full-auto)" - Empty gun? ==

When the Joker loads his gun in the cab (at the beginning of the movie) and racks the slide it sticks...Doesnt that mean he inserted an empty magazine? Dudester32 12:03, 18 March 2013 (EDT)

That it does, Dudester32. When the slide "sticks," as you say, that means that there is no round to chamber. So Heath Ledger racked the slide of an empty gun, then released it, as if he were loading it. --[[User:Mormonpowerranger521|Mormonpowerranger521]] 2:29, 6 June 2013 MST

You can still lock the slide of a pistol even though their are rounds in the magazine. He couldve done this to check the action and then release the slide to send a round into the chamber.--[[User:MarineCorps1|SeoulMan123]] ([[User talk:MarineCorps1|talk]]) 05:03, 19 September 2013 (EDT)

Talk:The Dark Knight

2013-09-19T09:03:01Z

MarineCorps1:

Talk:Rambo (2008)

2013-09-07T15:27:13Z

MarineCorps1: /* Final shootout Question */ new section

(removed the Acog discussion since Orca94 has already post images of new versions of non-fiber optic band Acogs)

==The Tallboy Bomb==
I'm well aware that the Avro Lancaster was never deployed to the Pacific Theater of Operations; a large force of Lancasters were intended to be sent to Okinawa to support the proposed invasion of Japan, but the war ended before this took place. My main concern with the Tallboy depicted in this film is related with its design and its intended use.

The Tallboy was intended to be used to destroy the thick concrete U-Boat pens in occupied France, which conventional iron bombs were incapable of penetrating. The aerodynamic design of the Tallboy, coupled with its massive bulk and twisted fins (which made it spin like a bullet when dropped) ensured that it could easily smash through concrete or steel; three Tallboys sank the German battleship Tirpitz.

A Tallboy dropped onto a target in the jungles of Burma would likely have punched several feet into the earth (even if it did not explode) and would be entirely buried sixty years later. I don't think it would be lodged on the surface to be conveniently employed by the film's protagonist in the present day. However, writers and directors are entitled to a bit of artistic license and the Tallboy detonation was a neat effect.

:: And any viewer with knowledge of WW2 history that covered the Tallboy would have been thinking the SAME THING. What you are posting is kinda obvious to people with the same knowledge base. I am not sure what your point is. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:26, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
:::And any viewer who did not have knowledge of World War II history that included the Tallboy would not have been thinking any such thing, other than wondering "What is with that big bomb?" I don't see what the point is in showing hostility towards someone inoffensively sharing some trivia regarding an unexploded bomb in a movie. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]]
::::Try reading it again with your happy voice :) The OP didn't see it as hostile, nor did I when I wrote it. I was just curious in that the OP was talking to the rest of us who worked on the page (and thus DID have the same knowledge of WW2 events), so it was a bit perplexing what that entire 'pronouncement' was all about. It was more of a "so? and did we do something wrong? or is this just an announcement of some kind?" If you want, I can retype it with a lot of happy faces :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

::::You're quite right. The Tallboy was an "earth quake bomb" designed to explode deep underground. Any Tallboy dropped that failed to go off would be buried under earth about 20 m deep. Also experiments were done to convert a B-29 to carry 2 Tallboy's! But only dummy's were used and no Tallboy's were ever deployed in the pacific theater. [[User:Pravda616|Pravda616]]

:The tailcone of the pictured bomb doesn't look right for a Tallboy, it looks like they either based it on the Grand Slam (5 feet longer than the Tallboy but almost twice the weight) or the even bigger T12. As far as I'm aware B-29s did drop British Earthquake bombs in Europe, but there's no record of any Tallboy or Grand Slam ever even ''being'' in the Pacific theatre, let alone being dropped there in combat and being lost, though the USAAF did drop thirty guided Tallboys (ASM-A-1 Tarzon) on North Korea, 1950-51. But the Tarzon was more known for exploding when you didn't want it to than not exploding when you did, and North Korea isn't Burma. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:43, 29 June 2011 (CDT)

==Rambo's M2 Browning==
From the trivia section about the M2 Browning machinegun used by Rambo it sounds as if they were live firing the gun during filming. Is this the case or am I misunderstanding the writing for I know live fire is used on rare ocassion in films, however I have never heard of a production doing so with a heavy machinegun. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::No. No live fire is ever allowed on a movie set. I didn't write that. GM45 wrote that, and though I have never heard that trivia note, GM45 would never make that stuff up. He must have heard it somewhere. However, it may not be necessary to the article. The paragraph may be poorly written or the info came from the DVD commentary, and lots of times the guys talking aren't the actual armorers so they use phrases that the rest of us would not. I have wondered about that too, and the only thing I can think of is that the blanks still have to cycle the action and barrel of the 50 cal, and the vibration of the cycling 'must' be stressful to whatever the gun is mounted to. I figure that even blanks will create such a massive 'back and forth' movement within the gun that a mount that is just bolted to the sheet metal of a truck bed will eventually rip out. Stallone fires so much ammo out of the gun that he must have fired thousands of rounds in production. Just a thought. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:32, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Alright, thanks for clearing that up. As for what you said about live fire never being used on movie sets, Phoenixent once told me that prior to the 1950's it was not all that uncommon for live fire to be used under controlled conditions being as certain guns could not be blank adapted at the time. In addition, movies like ''[[Face/Off]]'' integrate footage of live gunfire into the film even if the guns are not actually fired on set. With regards to ''[[Rambo (2008)]]'' I thought that they might possibly have taken Stallone and the M2 to a firing range, filmed him shooting live rounds, and then cut that footage into the movie though after reading your explination I doubt that is what they actually did, -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::::Yes, things were very unsafe '''over half a century ago'''. Of course it would be silly to apply those workplace standards now. :) The rights and safety of actors and extras was not priority back then. During a silent movie epic about Biblical times (either RKO or MGM) killed outright dozens of extras when they flooded the movie set with millions of gallons of water to re-create the biblical flood .... without warning ANY of the actors. I found it unbelievable that non of the big movie mogul bosses were ever charged, nor did anyone ever go to jail, nor were reparations paid to the families of those who were killed. But it was a different time. Consider those 'the olden days'. PhoenixEnt may recollect the details of that particular Hollywood tragedy, but I can't. Anyway, in modern day sets, NO LIVE AMMO will ever be tolerated. Not by the Unions, not by the Corporations, and especially not by the Insurance Underwriters. That will shut down a movie set pronto (unless it's a safely done 2nd unit shot or a renegade production in another country). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:17, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::If it wasn't the guns cycling that ripped the gun off the truck bed, it might have been how violently Sly was pulling on it as he was firing, he was dramatically yanking the gun most of the time. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Reese's M203 ==

Could this be the same Gun used in Transformers by Tyrese Gibson?

It's the same M4 with the Camo Paint and Sight attached to the Carry handle.

I attend to agree in this, after a close examination of the screencap in the main page. --[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 17:07, 12 January 2010 (UTC)--

Here's the two for comparison:

From '''Rambo (2008)'''
[[Image:Rambo_M4a.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

From '''Transformers (2007)'''
[[Image:Trans-M203-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:Dangerman 1973|Dangerman 1973]] 17:07, 12 January 2010 (UTC)--

:It depends on which armory supplied the weapons for each film. But yes, it is definitely possible (perhaps even likely) that they're the same gun. Guns get reused on different shows all the time, as the armories always rent them out to many, many productions over a long period. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
::Looks good. Eventually I may be able to track down the gun in whosever inventory it sits and photograph it. :) I will put it on my list. --[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, the Brit's Mossberg is the same from Transformers, so maybe its the same armorer. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

::::Actually, if you look at the credits, both movies had different armorers. But that doesn't mean that the armorers couldn't have rented the guns from the same '''armory''' (prop house), and thus the weapon could still be the same one. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:I don't know what this counts for, but if you look closely, there are a few differences in the camouflaging. For example, the M203 barrel and carry handle on Reese's M4 has small bits of unpainted areas that are painted over on Tyrese's. However it's possible the paint was worn off somehow during the filming of Rambo. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:50, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

:::Hey, this is kinda late, but I was able to confirm (via one of my contacts in the business) that the M4/M203 used in this movie is indeed the same one from ''[[Transformers]]'' (actually, it was ''one'' gun in a batch of identically-configured weapons built for Tyrese Gibson to use on that show). The differences in the camouflage paint is due to wear from use on ''[[Transformers]]''; the paint had to be re-done for ''Rambo'', and so it doesn't look exactly the same. I added this information to the page itself, but forgot to mention it here first.

:::Also, my source tells me that the ACOG scope is not an airsoft replica. He said they tried the airsoft ACOGs on other movies, and they break too easily. The ACOG used on this M4 is a real one that has been gutted of its internals. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:10, 29 June 2011 (CDT)

==Arrows==
What kind of arrows does he use?
:You're kidding, right?

Ahhhh hahahahah! Gunner313

lol [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:32, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== The bow ==

The page for this movie incorrectly identifies the bow Rambo uses to fish as a compound bow. Rambo actually uses two bows in this film. The fishing bow with a reel attached is a longbow. From the photo provided it's difficult to see but in the film it's obvious that there are no cam wheels on the bow.
The bow he uses later is the same custom Hoyt compound bow he used in Rambo Part II. It may be the same in Part III as well, only with the on-board quiver removed.
::Go ahead and update that info. I wasn't the one who created the "bow" entry, so if it is incorrect, then by all means please put in the correct information. thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 23:16, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
::Never mind, scratch my previous comment here. Anyway, bow entries separated and ''named'' appropriately. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 10:26, 1 July 2013 (EDT)

== M1 Carbine. ==

The kid with the guide has what I think is an M1 carbine with a 30 round mag and some kind of underfolding stock. Any screenshots?--[[Special:Contributions/153.106.4.94|153.106.4.94]] 23:36, 3 March 2010 (UTC)Jake

== Rambo's Machete ==

Unless I'm misreading the description, the info you have about Sly making the knife himself is wrong. The Knife was once again made by Gil Hibben, you can read the full story here http://www.hibbenknives.com/JRDev.htm
::I didn't write that. GM45 did and I cannot vouch for any info I didn't put on the page. If you have contrary information, please edit the page to reflect the new info. Thanks. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:43, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
:::From what i know, which includes info from the DVD's extras plus many detailed interviews with Stallone, Stallone made the blade of the machete on a forge. He went through nearly a dozen heat proof gloves as the metal used needed to be that hot to make it workable and he did'nt have time to let it cool. The knife master on the film, Gil Hibbon, designed it and produced the prototypes and more than likely finished off the work started by Stallone to the finished model we see in the film.--[[User:The Mercenary|The Mercenary]] 17:29, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
In the DVD special features sly talks about making the knife himself, and the director I think talks about him slaving away at it over night. The reason he made the knife is because the knife he still had from the Rambo 2 was lost when they filmed the scene in which he threw it onto the burning boat

== Schoolboy's Combat Knife ==

I'm just wondering what kind of knife Schoolboy had when he killed the guy in the watch tower. You get a good view of it before he goes up the rest of the way.

Any idea?

Its supposed to be Rambo's knife from Part II, although there is a deleted scene were Rambo throws his knife onto the burning pirate boat. As far as i know for certain, no-one has spoken about the knife Schoolboy uses nor has there been any articles written. All the scenes were Schoolboy uses his knife are set at night so identifying has proved difficult, though i think i can just make out what seems like a knuckle guard on the grip.--[[User:The Mercenary|The Mercenary]] 15:42, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

In the DVD special features it shows that they actually lost the knife from first blood part two when filming the aforementioned boat scene, and that silvester himself then built the golock he uses throughout the film as he no longer had a knife. I would find it unlikely that they would have a knife of the same model sitting around, or they could have just used that. Having said that however the knife does look somewhat similar, it's been a while since I've seen the film but i remember his knife being smaller than rambos

== Question ==
Is it just me or did Rambo fire 10 shots from his 1911s 7 round clip?
:You mean magazine?

1911's can hold 8 in the mag and one in the pipe...so maybe it was 9.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 12:53, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Explains that.

: I counted six. And if I ain't mistaken, the M1911 holds 7 rounds +1 in the chamber. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 01:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

You're half mistaken. They have 8-round mags. That equates to 8+1. Hell, they have 15 round mags. -SasquatchJim.

Not the correct you sasquatch but i own a M1911 similar to Rambo's. the regular 1911 as most of us know hold 7+1. its the more modern variants like Kimber or Nighthawk that hold 8+1. and although a movie i doubt he keeps a round in the chamber with a 1911 which i find very unsafe, and 2. im sure if its his personal 1911 hes had it for a while and doesnt reload it everyday so its possible that the 6 or 7 in the gun was it.

It's fine. However, I wasn't really saying that Rambo's gun in particular will hold 8. The guy before me just said that the M1911 holds 7 rounds. I simply meant that there ARE 1911s that hold 8.

ALL 1911's will hold a 8rd mag, it has nothing to do with when the gun was made it all comes down to how the mags spring was cut. Kimber and Nighthawk have nothing to do with it because I can take the 8rd out of my kimber and put it into my springfield then put it into a colt with the same effects...and YES rambo carries one in the chamber because he draws the gun and fires, he never racks the slide before he kill everyone. So Obviously Mr.Anonymous know very little about guns and even less about action movies.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 00:55, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

First off I do know a lot about guns and about action movies. Second Yes I do relize he had one in the chamber. Third, I wanted to know how many rounds did he fire.

I don't find anything un-safe about carrying a 1911 with a round chambered as long as the safety is on. In fact condition one will be something that Rambo was taught as he was Special Forces in Vietnam. The only way keeping a 1911 with a round chambered is if you're dumb enough to not engage the safety. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 11:17, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Moved from main page. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:13, 29 June 2011 (CDT)
[[Image:Rambo08NorincoType56-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Junta soldier stabs a Karen child with the bayonet of his Type 56 - 7.62x39mm. While the scene is indeed gruesome, note how the bayonet is a fake blade that collapses on a spring to look like it is stabbing someone.]]

== Mortar ==

I really don't think the mortar on this page is an M29, but I haven't had much luck figuring out what it might be instead. Compare:

[[Image:Mortar_M29.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M29 mortar - 81mm]]
[[Image:Rambo 81mmMortar 02.jpg‎ ‎|thumb|none|500px|M29 81mm Mortar used by Junta troops - 81mm]]

I can't find any images of an M29 with a smooth tube like that, and the visible part of the stand doesn't look right either. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:23, 29 June 2011 (CDT)

== M82CQ? ==

The page says the Barrett is an M82CQ, but in one of the images here the barrel looks a fair bit longer. Compare:

[[Image:M82CQ.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Barret M82A1 CQ sniper rifle. Barrel is roughly 2 muzzle brake lengths.]]
[[Image:Rambo Barrett 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Barrel length seems closer to 3 muzzle brake lengths here.]]

Is it just a trick of perspective, or does this one have a slightly longer barrel than the one pictured as the reference image? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:45, 4 July 2011 (CDT)
:: Don't look at me. Even though I built the page, that ID belongs to GM45. :D I cheerfully confer your questions to him. :D I really don't have anything to contribute on that matter since I have not researched the variants of the Barretts like others have. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:07, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

They talk about the Barrett in great detail on the special features on the DVD. Might be a few better shots of it there. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 06:30, 5 July 2011 (CDT)

It does look slightly longer. The barrel also doesn't have the fluting that the CQ's barrel does. I'm guessing it was a full-size Barrett that was just chopped down. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:33, 2 January 2013 (EST)

== I have to say ==
This is probably THE most graphically violent movie I've ever seen. The sheer brutality of the Burmese Army raid on the village even makes ME cringe. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:40, 2 January 2013 (EST)

== Final shootout Question ==

When Rambo is hit in the shoulder during the final shootout does that round penetrate the chicken plate or ricochet 1 and 2 would that round still have enough force to knock a heavy guy like Sly around the turret and almost off the truck?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] ([[User talk:MarineCorps1|talk]]) 11:27, 7 September 2013 (EDT)

User:MarineCorps1

2012-08-17T18:41:30Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Birthplace'''- South Korea, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- shooting, Xbox, snowboarding

'''Job'''- 1141, Basic Electrician, United States Marine Corps

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, The Town, Act of Valor

== About Me ==

I was born in Seoul, South Korea, but moved to the United States at the age of 1. I became obsessed with firearms around the age of 15. I joined the Marine Corps right after high school, going to boot camp on August 29th, 2011. I graduated out of Parris Island, South Carolina on November 23rd 2011. I went through MCT right after boot camp and completed MOS school on April 25th 2012. I am now a licenced electrician in the Marine Corps serving a 2 year tour in Okinawa Japan. I currently own a Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm, a Kimber Warrior, a Colt AR15, a Remington 700 in .308, and a Mossberg 590 shotgun all im my safe at home. Too bad you can't own weapons in Okinawa. Semper Fidelis.

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-The standard Marine Corps service rifle, can't go wrong with it, plus, I shot expert on the rifle rance with this weapon, iron sights.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable handgun with an even better round. I own a Kimber Warrior, great pistol.

'''Smith and Wesson M&P'''- Sold my Glock 19 for a S&W M&P. In my opinion, it looks better and has a really solid trigger pull. If I don't have my Kimber laying around, I would trust my life with my M&P.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- Just a cool looking gun. If the Winchester 73 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40/700'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper rifle ever made. A version used by Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Winchester Model 70'''- The same as the Remington 700 and M40, but in 30-06. A version used by "White Feather" Carlos Hathcock.

'''Barrett M82A3 SASR'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of 7.62, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.

== '''Favorite USMC Quotes''' ==

"From the time I touched that Remington 700, I was in love with it, I wanted to be a sniper. I'm gonna hunt something thats gonna hunt me back, Oh I love that."- '''Chuck Mawhinney'''- Most Confirmed kills in Marine Corps history, 103 with 216 probables.

"The sun glared off his lense of the scope I guess. I saw the glint, I shot it where the glint was... By looks of things, I was just the quickest on the trigger otherwise he would've killed me. How do I know he would've killed me? I shot right through his scope, right straight through his scope, didn't touch the sides and it didn't do his eyesight no good on that side either."- '''Carlos Hathcock'''- USMC scout sniper with 93 confired killed.

"The first guy I saw him pop up, slung the crosshairs over him, flipped the weapon onto kill, sent the round downrange... that hit its mark. It was just a pink mist."- '''Steve Reichert'''- USMC scout sniper, 1-mile killshot with Barret M82A3.

"We're surrounded... that simplifies the problem."- '''Lewis "Chesty" Puller'''- Most decorated Marine in history.

"Marines die, that's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' from Full Metal Jacket.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is the Marine and his rifle."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' from Full Metal Jacket.

"For over 200 years our Corps has done two things for this great Nation. We make Marines, and we win battles." various Marines including '''Charles C. Krulak'''

Talk:Act of Valor

2012-08-17T18:31:54Z

MarineCorps1:

==Thoughts?==

Saw the trailer when I went to see Courageous. I thought it looked pretty sweet. What do you guys think? - [[User:1morey]] October 14, 2011 9:38 PM (EST)

:I'm seeing first showing on opening day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:37, 14 November 2011 (CST)

::It looks pretty impressive, even moreso in that actual SEALs were involved on-screen, not just in a behind-the-scenes consulting role like in most war films. I heard parts of this were actually retained for training purposes due to the degree of realism in the tactics and methods used in the film. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:26, 14 November 2011 (CST)

Overall, I thought the movie was lame, but that's the Marine combat vet side of me speaking, so I'm biased. On the plus side the violence and body count side of the movie is nice, and they don't try to gloss over the bloodier parts of it. But, couldn't they have put an M-14 or two in there somewhere, for old-time's sake? Maybe just for the sniper dude or something? The SEALs I know love their M-14s and I know they still carry them on some missions, just wish they would have thrown one in there. [[User:Travestytrav|Travestytrav]] 01:18, 29 February 2012 (CST)

:Apparently none of the SEALs in this one opted for M14s and I doubt the filmmakers had any leeway in what they used either. Besides, by this time they would have replaced their M14s with Mark 14s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:40, 1 March 2012 (CST)

Personaly, I thoguht they were underarmed. The whole 8-man team had M4s, exept for the sniper. None of them had M203s, M249s, or M60 variants. I've always gotten the impression the SEALS, like most special forces units, tend to be over-armed. Yet in the movie, the squad would be outgunned by any infantry squad in the world. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 15:39, 1 March 2012 (CST)

No, SEALs, as with most Special Operations Units, tend to be armed with as much as they need. The only time their ever over-armed is if their mission is expected to exceed a specific time set or they feel as though they need more than usual. SOU's choose their own armaments based on what they feel they may need to complete the mission. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 16:47, 1 March 2012 (CST)

You're never over-armed. You might not need a machinegun or grenade launcher but, as the saying goes, better to have and not need than to need and not have.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 21:33, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:Agreed. The first rule of battle is: Never fight fair. They had to know they'd be going up against guys with assault rifles in every operation, which means you always bring more than just assault rifles. They should have had at least one belt-fed weapon (more likely 2), and at least one (more likely 2) M203 if for no other reason than to shoot non-lethal and/or pyro rounds. I imagine everyone was carrying M4s to make production easier, especially since some of it was apparently live-fire. [[User:Travestytrav|Travestytrav]] 03:37, 2 March 2012 (CST)

True, but you're talking about Special Operations Units, they only carry what is necessary to get the job done. And you don't always bring more than assault rifles, sometimes they run only SMG's and pistol's. And they may know everything possible about a mission but in a second things can change but they do their best to play it in their favor. And as I stated before they choose their armaments, if they didn't think it necessary they wouldn't take it. If they need to move quick their not going to carry a belt-fed, they want light equipment to make the job easier. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 14:19, 2 March 2012 (CST)

It's SOF/SF (Special Operations Forces/Special Forces), not SOU. Also, for what it's worth, the novelization has a Mk.46 and Mk. 12 being used on the resque mission. On the other hand, the novelization is sufficiently bad that it's best to ignore it. For a work associated with Tom Clancy, it's both over-descriptive and wrong about guns. And you ALWAYS need more firepower. You are NEVER over-armed. And why on earth did they leave the machine gunners behind for the last mission? There were 3 SEALs with SAWs, and they got left behind on the mission they were realy needed on.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 16:06, 4 March 2012 (CST)

Frst, they go by either. People need to stop reading wiki, most of the info there is pretty faulty. Second you were the first to say "SOU's" were usually over-armed, so don't try and act like someone else threw it out there. You don't alwas need more fire power, if you trully need knew anything about Special Operations they almost always never carry more than they need unless they feel it necessary. What they do is ment to be done quick and their gear is always ment to be light, hence why they run the "newest of the new" equipment. One of the many reasons they are the best of the best is because they can get the job done with as little as possible. You have to remember it's still a movie, no matter how realistic they make it, things always change from novel to movie. The SEALs had a big say in how things were done, it may have been their choice to leave the three back. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 21:18, 4 March 2012 (CST)

I've never seen them refered to as "SOU", and I read a lot (not much wikipedia either). I ''do'' know a good bit about various special-ops stuff. And when did I pretend that someone else claimed they were over-armed? A 9-man sqaud in the US army has 2x M249s and 2x M203s, every other country's squads are the same or heavier. The squad in the movie went in underarmed, "Newest of the new" has more to do with better than lighter. "Light and move fast" is nice, until a bunch of bad guys come after you and you don't have any way of stoping them. An M203 round or couple of bursts from an M249 would have realy slowed down the pursuers. I know it's a movie, that's why the machine gunners got left behind, they're not main characters.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 13:08, 5 March 2012 (CST)

You continually keep replying "You are never over-armed", and making it sound like someone else said they were. I've already said this before, if you actually "do" know anything about Special Operations you would know they don't function nor run the same equipment, tactics, and missions as regular troops. Oh and read a bit more, you'll find them referred to as "SOU". And if you knew the answer to your own question, why ask it? [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 13:39, 5 March 2012 (CST)

SEALs don't go by "Special Forces" because they aren't Special Forces, ''Special Forces'' are Special Forces. SF isn't a generic term in the US military, it refers to a specific unit, that being the US Army Special Forces. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:00, 5 March 2012 (CST)

Just throwing in my two cents here, don't take this as an indication of taking sides or anything. I've read a lot of military non-fiction from the Vietnam War onwards and I've gotten the distinct impression that most teams within the special operations community usually carry a variety of weapons rather than just assault rifles. Granted, I mostly read up on the regular troops in the US Marine Corps and US Army but the books I have read on Delta Force, the Green Berets, the SAS and SASR (usually by former members) specifically mention that grenade launchers such as the M203 and LMGs such as the FN Minimi and M249 are carried into battle by said special operations units as sort of a force multiplier if required. Like the saying goes, "better safe than sorry!" Arguably, I haven't read any books by SEALs or on SEALs but most SF teams tend to work in the same general way. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 03:50, 6 March 2012 (CST)

Just saw this and although the acting is wooden in parts (hey these guys are SEALs!) I found the action sequences entirely realistic. Sure there is some rock and roll but the weapons fire seems limited to all it needs to be (even including the suppressive fire laid down by the SOC-Rs). About the only thing that bugged me I suppose was the markings on the RPG warheads. They seemed to have the yellow/black markings indicating "watch it...I go boom". As a side note...out of all the characters in the film the only one I would not want pissed at me was Senior Chief Otto...you get the feeling the man has really been there and done that. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 18:21, 20 May 2012 (CDT)

:It's funny how people complain about the SEALs' acting skills when they obviously aren't acting. You wouldn't complain about cops' "bad acting" while watching ''Cops'', would you? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:44, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
::Its funny cause during the scenes where they're just talking, or like when the guy says goodbye to his wife, I was thinking "wow, these guys are such bad actors".... But then when you see them in Costa Rica shooting out of the back of the truck, I'm thinking, wow, everyone else is such a bad actor... I mean compare this to [[Bruce Willis]] in [[Tears of the Sun]]... These guys are WAY more bad ass... No they can't act but thats the best part. THEY'RE NOT ACTING! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:57, 7 June 2012 (CDT)
:::Precisely, they ''aren't'' acting. I would think these guys have said such goodbyes to their families before and know how it all plays out much better than a majority of us do. Don't knock it 'till you know it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:07, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

:I recently watched the movie, and despite few critics complained about the acting of the SEALs (yes I know, they're NOT really acting), I found this film not just interesting, but indeed very awesome and if I may also add - very rare. Recommended!!! --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 14:39, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

I enjoyed it quite a bit, I'd have to thank Spartan198 for recommending it to me, one slight complaint though, shouldn't they have used suppressors during the beginning rescue mission, and the ending fight to protect their hearing in doors?[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 04:28, 9 July 2012 (CDT)

== Extended Trailer ==
I've got some additional pics from the extended trailer that I'm going to upload. Pics show a strange carbine-length sniper rifle that I can't ID (fore-end is that of an M4 with fixed FSP and KAC RIS, but it appears to have a 7.62 magazine), a Mark 11 variant (can't see the fore-end to ID which one exactly), FN Mags, FN Minimis, a possible M60D, and a handheld M60 (can't tell which variant because I can't see all of it). There's probably more, but I'll go over the trailer with a fine tooth comb later. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 14 November 2011 (CST)
:Upon closer examination, the handheld M60 is just another M240G. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:57, 15 November 2011 (CST)

== Unknown Sniper Rifle ==
Take a look.
[[File:AoVSniper.jpg|thumb|none|500px|???]]
[[File:AoVSR25.jpg|thumb|none|600px|???]]

M4 fore-end with a 7.62 mag. Any ideas as to what it is? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:06, 14 November 2011 (CST)

: Possably a SEAL Recon Rifle? See: <strike>http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5515/sealsnipers6uy1.jpg </Strike> (Wrong photo)[[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:04, 24 December 2011 (CST)

::That's a Mark 12 Mod 1, not a RECCE Rifle. RECCEs are a 16" breed, in addition to being 5.56. The rifle above has a 7.62 mag. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 09:02, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:::Ah, sorry, theres a RECCE rifle on the same page i got the photo from which i can't seem to find now :(, that said it could still be a 5.56 with a 20rnd mag, films do a have a history of making things look larger than they actually are *cough* preditor M134 anyone? [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:16, 25 December 2011 (CST)

:::Mag still looks too big to be 5.56 to me. But whatever it is, I'm pulling that screencap from the SR-25 entry on the main page since it's clearly not an SR-25 by the short barrel and fixed front sight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:::Okay, I just got back from the movie and this rifle is ''definitely'' a 7.62. It's the same rifle that's in the screencap under the SR-25 entry (which I removed and placed here). I'm thinking maybe an AR-10 carbine? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:10, 24 February 2012 (CST)
:::: Hmm, what do we know?
-its 7.62
- it has a solid M16 style stock
- it has a fixed front sight
and has a somewhat weird foregrip, it kinda looks like a rail but isnt...
couldn't find many AR-10's (3-4 out of 50 i found) with a front fixed sight (not that it means much) unfortunatly i don't think it's even getting a release in my country (nor are there any ''other'' ways to get it) so i'll leave this to you to decide. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 07:42, 6 March 2012 (CST)

I have a feeling it may be an Armalite AR-10 1913 carbine.[[User:Recon|Recon]]

Looks like a LaRue Tactical Stealth OSR to me. Anyone Else?[[User:andrewe02000|andrewe02000]]
:That doesn't explain the barrel and fore-end that's virtually the same as an M4, though. I spoke to a friend of mine who knows one of the SEALs involved with production and the only response she's gotten is that it's "some kind of SR-25 variant". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:28, 9 March 2012 (CST)
::Could it possibly be the SEAL's personally built rifle? Its not completely impossible for him to not have built a custom rifle for marksmanship duty. Afterfall, he is a SEAL and he would want a gun he would be comfortable. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

It isn't at all unlikely that it is a rifle he put together himself. It's not uncommon for anyone is Special Operations to take different parts from multiple weapons and put them together to make one complete weapon. [[User:Puppet.of.fate|Puppet.of.fate]] 21:53, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

Watched the movie last night and the sniper rifle appears to be... KNIGHT'S ARMAMENT M-110 SASS (Semi-Automatic Sniper System) [http://http://www.knightarmco.com/m110.html]- nice piece of kit...but had its issues in the field. --The Rapscallion 14:22, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

:No, it's not an M110. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:10, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

-> I think I found it: = its 7.62/.308 = it has a solid M16 style stock = it has a fixed front sight = and has rail foregrip. As per mi findings, it matches with the "Panther™ .308 Classic / Model: RFLR-C with 4 rail free float handguard upgrade". Pictures here [http://www.webarms.com/Gun%20Suppliers/dpms/dpms%20308%20Classic.htm]. What do you think?-[[User:JavierMdR|JavierMdR]]

:I'm thinking we might have a winner. The vent holes in the rail systems definitely match. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:24, 10 April 2012 (CDT)

-> Here [http://www.healyarms.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/p/dpms_rflr_tac20.jpg] another picture with a better look. It is also coded as "380 TAC20".

-> Im sorry, but this is a normal SR-25 with an 4-side attachable picatinny rail, 20rnd magazine, bipod, a 12x Scope and a 7,62x51mm (.300 Remington)Silencer

Its not a SR-25. SR-25s do not come with a fixed front sight or a carry handle.

== Live Fire ==

Apparently this film is gonna use live fire,which is an extreme rarity for films. Gonna be interesting to see though
:I don't believe this for a second as live ammunition is pretty much prohibited from a film set unless it's in a 100% locked down and closed environment. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:52, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::I wouldn't be so sure, if you watch the trailer the miniguns on the boats are spewing out regular empty brass rather than fired blanks. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 21:11, 23 December 2011 (CST)
:::See those look like blanks to me, and that one shot is a close up so it could have been shot on a locked down location, film editing is a clever thing ;)--[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 22:18, 23 December 2011 (CST)
::::According to BLACKFIVE.net, it's nearly all live ammo. He saw a screening of it, talks about it here ( http://www.blackfive.net/main/2011/10/update-act-of-valor.html ). [[User:RC 5213|RC 5213]]
::::: ''Nearly all'' being the key word, i doubt any of the shots with anything other than the actual seals in the film where live fire and I doubt any of the actors used live fire. [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 00:33, 25 December 2011 (CST)
::::::I still doubt that it was live ammo, it just seems so implausible that it would be allowed, what if one of the bullets ricocheted, missed the target, etc. It seems like an absolutely unnecessary risk to use live ammo. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 04:16, 25 December 2011 (CST)
:::::::thats the whole idea of franagle ammunation [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 23:32, 3 January 2012 (CST)
Pretty sure it would just be the SEALs using live ammo, the actors are probably using blanks. Yes it is dangerous, but the SEALs are trained to be excellent shooters so I can believe it. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 14:30, 25 December 2011 (CST)
:But like you say it's dangerous and seems like a stupid risk to me. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:09, 25 December 2011 (CST)
::The film was shot during various SEAL training exercises and uses them as action set pieces, so it is possible that is what the article is referring to. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 22:20, 26 December 2011 (CST)
::: Yea, if i remember correctly this was originaly made to be a recruiting video for the SEAL's that turned into a film.[[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 23:33, 3 January 2012 (CST)

My understanding from [http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/actofvalor/ this] featurette is that the live fire was done how the live fire in [[Miami Vice (2006)]] was done. Shoot the shit out of whatever you want shot, then add any people you need in the scene after. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 06:58, 14 January 2012 (CST)

[http://www.youtube.com/actofvalormovie] The making of video shows that they used both blanks and Live Fire.

Just my two cents, I thought the movie was lame, but one thing I did notice was how realistic some of the weapons' firing sounded, so it doesn't surprise me that some of the shooting was live-fire. I would say any live-fire shooting was being done by the SEALs since it was only the M4s firing that sounded real. Most of the pistol shooting and ALL of the AK-47 shooting sounded fake. [[User:Travestytrav|Travestytrav]] 01:09, 29 February 2012 (CST)

Live fire was definitely used in some (or all) the miniguns on the river boats. In a flyover shot, you can see the barrels get red hot on the miniguns, I doubt that can happen with blanks, as it is the friction of the bullets going down the barrels that causes the barrels to get red hot. I'm pretty sure if it was just blanks, the gases don't hang around long enough to warm up the barrel that much.

The sound effects were added in post production, those were not recorded live. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 16:21, 23 April 2012 (CDT)

== Something clearly wrong with the front sight. ==

[[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:AOV-M4-3.jpg]]
Is it just me or there is some kind of "solid" front sight? Or,could it be just water? [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 18:03, 26 February 2012 (CST)
:Looks like just water to me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:29, 26 February 2012 (CST)
::Something looks wrong to me. The front sight would block out anything you would see through the scope. Survivalkid21

==Guns==
I think I saw a M933 or Mk18 on the yacht, though it may have just been a M4. Also, a gunman in one of the trucks seemed to have a Beretta M12 or Walther MPL/MPK, any ideas? A few bad guys had pistols, but I couldb't see them well.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 20:32, 28 February 2012 (CST)

I thought I'd saw a Mark 18, too, but it didn't appear anywhere else, so I presumed it to be just another M4. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:34, 1 March 2012 (CST)

This website as a photo of SEALs with Mark 18s and as far as I can tell this is the only time they are used in the movie.

http://www.filmofilia.com/act-of-valor-tv-spot-87064/

Likely an M4A1 CQBR rather than a Mark 18 (contrary to popular belief, they aren't the same thing). The Mark 18 is built on an M16A1 lower, while the lower on at least 1 of these carbines appears to be A2-style. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:16, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

Um, I doubt the intel is right Spartan. According to Wikipedia the the M4 CQBR is a M4 Close Quarter Battle upper Receiver, so you could put it on a just about any AR-15 patterned lower reciever. - Wantabe_Warrior38

:I think he is mostly correct. A CQBR rifle will be built by swapping out the current upper for the short one, and in most cases the donor rifle will have an A2 lower (for example an M4A1). Mk. 18s that are assembled as complete rifles by NSWC Crane where they have tended to use A1 lower receivers (although I don't know if 100% of them are A1 lowers). I always assumed that the source of these A1 lowers was from the old M16A2E3/M16A3s that the Navy had before being replaced with the new M16A3, which were an M16A2 upper on an A1 lower receiver. It is true that you could put a CQBR on an A1 lower, but in real life you would generally only see it on an A2 lower. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:09, 25 May 2012 (CDT)

I think I was confusing M16s with M16a1s (thinking of mag release fencing, etc, and by accident, lack of forward assist and brass deflector. I know, I know, the last 2 are on the replaced upper, but my mind jumped and left knowledge behind) so I was a little shocked when I read Spartan's comment, but now that I think about it; and could somebody confirm or deny this, the only difference between an a1 and a2 lower receiver is the trigger group/fire modes, so it shouldn't be odd to use an a1 lower for a Mk.18. - Wantabe_Warrior38

:I haven't seen the movie and there are no screen caps of the gun in question so I can't say what lowers they actually are, but there is a difference between a full auto A2 lower (as in M4A1) and a full auto A1 lower.
:[[File:Lower a1 full fence.jpg|thumb|400px|none|A1 lower]]
:[[File:Lower a2 full fence.jpg|thumb|400px|none|A2 lower]]
:If you compare the two pictures above you can see that there are a couple of structural differences, such as the reinforcing around the picot pin making the top of the front of the mag well curved rather than square, and the reinforcement at the rear push pin. Generally you would also have selector markings on the right side of a Colt A2 lower, but the one in this picture is made by another company. The pistol grip design will also be different if it is an A1 lower, but don't know if this is changed during the Mk. 18 upgrade. I think for the new Mk. 18 mod 0 they use a new M4A1 type lower, only reason they used A1 lowers on the original Mk. 18 is that they had them laying around and wanted to use them rather than buying new. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:54, 26 May 2012 (CDT)

Thanks, for showing that to me, I had no Idea of the reinforcing at those areas, and going from MY SMALL pool of knowledge (ie. reading an airsoft forum full of people who have done, from what I can tell, lots of research into this stuff. It's their research and the knowledge I've gained from it) Mk.18 Mod.0 don't have the finger shelf (like on the grip in the picture of the a2 lower), but the Mod.1/SOPMOD block II (sorry if they are different things) might of added different options for the rifles, like the Magpul MIAD pistol grip. - Wantabe_Warrior38

:Pistol grips can be easily swapped out, Warrior. But as far as I can find out, the "Mark 18 Mod 1" designation stems from misidentifying Block II M4A1 CQBRs (KAC rails replaced with DD rails, among other small changes) as Mark 18s. I haven't so far found anything to indicate any of the units that use Mark 18s are having their rail systems swapped out or otherwise being upgraded to a supposed Mod 1 standard. Not saying it isn't necessarily happening, just that I haven't heard or read anything about it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:13, 27 May 2012 (CDT)

== Mk 24 Mod 0 ==

Isn't the P226 used by the Navy SEALs actually designated the Mk 25 Mod 0, or is this just a marketing ploy by SIG to have a Navy like designation for their civilian version, [[http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p226-mk25.aspx]]. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:43, 3 June 2012 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure the actual issued weapon is the Mk.24, and the Mk25 name is just something SIG made up. Note that the page never actually says the Mk.25 is the Navy issue pistol. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:54, 3 June 2012 (CDT)

:Okay thanks, I thought that might be the case, but this is what actually made me question the designation:[[http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/11/17/seals-upgrade-to-sig-sauer-p226-mk25-pistol/]]. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 19:00, 3 June 2012 (CDT)

::Regardless of what the Navy designates its weapons in real life, the prop weapon seen in the movie is an older-model civilian 226 (one of the German-manufactured pistols with a mandrel-stamped slide). We should not use the Mark 24 Mod 0 designation on this page since it does not reflect what type of weapon was used on-set and appears in the film (kinda like the way that all "Beretta M9s" used in Hollywood are actually civilian 92Fs standing in for the M9). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:02, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
:::Good call MT! Should we perhaps mention this discrepancy on the main page itself? I think it is particularly interesting since these are active duty SEALs. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:18, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Bear in mind that theatrical guns are specially modified to cycle blanks, so the majority of the guns in the film will not be actual SEAL weapons but rather guns provided by a movie armourer. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:09, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
:::::They used live ammo for the movie. However, it is still doubtful that the SEALs would use their personal firearms.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:26, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
:::::Except that as has been discussed, many of the scenes used live ammo... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:28, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
::::::I haven't seen it yet, but I highly doubt that any scenes involving CQB will be using live ammunition so there will have still been blank firearms used for a lot of the film. I think the majority of live firing is for stuff like the miniguns. For example, I'm pretty sure Navy SEALs wouldn't be using a civilian DPMS rifle in real life, but that is in the film. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:44, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
:::::::Majority? From what I could tell the only scene with live fire in was the scene with the mini guns on the boat. Everything else looks like blanks to me. I do not believe for one second they used live fire in the CQB scenes, and if they did then they are absolute idiots. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 18:55, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
That was the entire point of the movie... They're not idiots. They are actual Navy SEALs. The SEALs train with live ammo so this was basically a documentary. In the articles and Behind the Scenes footage they say that its all live ammo. The NON-SEALs use blanks and for a scene where one guy shoots another in the same camera shot its a blank. But you have to remember, with editing you don't know what they were actually shooting at. You see them fire a shot, then cut to a different angle of the guy getting hit... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:00, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
:You are correct that SEALs train with live ammunition, but what they are very unlikely to do is fire live ammunition from small arms in a tight environment when there are large numbers of civillian actors and film crew running around. The SEALs can trust themselves when they are doing live fire excercise, but I doubt they will trust untrained civilians not to get in the way. If nothing else I'm pretty sure there would be insurance issues. There was live firing in the film, but it would have only been for tightly controlled "set pieces" like the miniguns on the boats. There is a [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTaRhMBGzkY featurette] about the live firing in this film and the only scene they show with live fire is the minigun scene. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:29, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
::Actually, they showed quite a number of other scenes in that documentary that had live fire. The crew isn't going to be stupid enough to stand in front of live firing, but they might position a camera there. The SEALs run training exercises with live ammo, so CQB scenarios with live ammo would be nothing new for them. Obviously they aren't going to give an actor a live firing weapon, but the SEALs know what they are doing.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 20:03, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
:::My point is not that CQB live firing would be new for the SEALs, but it would not be a situation where they would put a whole film crew in the middle of it. Which other scenes do you think were in that feature where they were using live fire? The only "behind the scenes" stuff that wasn't just random clips from the film was the guy shooting from next to the car, and I doubt that is live fire as if nothing else both the actual cameraman and particularly the behind the scenes cameraman are in unsafe positions and nobody is wearing any form of ballistic protection (I think the sheet and face mask on the cameraman will be to protect him from cases, debris and muzzle flash only). If nothing else, what benefit do you think they are getting of filming live fire with M4s? They aren't using tracers, the report of the gun will be dubbed, and you can't show the effect on target as the target is a man so as far as I can tell there would be no benefit for ridiculously more risk. This isn't a documentary where there is a crew of a few guys who have signed a waiver, this is a professional film crew with dozens of people on set (if nothing else the unions would probably throw a fit). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:18, 11 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Anyone believing that the SEALs used live ammo in every sequence in this film is seriously dumb, I'm sorry but when you are seeing them in close quarters shooting towards people they are not going to be using live ammo, SEALs are not trained to miss they are trained to instinctively shoot to kill, so what if by accident a SEALs instinct takes over and he puts a round through an actor's head? --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 05:52, 12 June 2012 (CDT)
:::::Through the magic of film editing, they are NOT actually shooting at people. I don't know what place the CQB scenes take place in (i.e. wood walls, drywall, cement) but if they could pull it off without fear of ricochets they probably used live ammo. I'm not saying that every scene used live ammo, but the vast majority did. I read an article that talked about then using live ammo throughout the entire San Clemente Island sequence in addition to the minigun sequence, but as I haven't seen the movie yet I don't know what that entails.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:28, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

::::::I have no idea where you guys read that EVERY scene using the SEALs uses live ammo, but I doubt it's true of the CQB scenes. You can tell by observing the M4s themselves: The M4s used in the scene have (1.) M16A1-style flash hiders (as we have explained on the M16 page, this is something that movie armorers tend to do because cinematographers prefer the "starburst" flash pattern of the A1 flash hider to that generated by the current generation flash hiders), and (2.) they generate huge muzzle flashes (something you'll see with Hollywood blanks, but not live ammo). These observations suggest that the M4s are blank-adapted movie guns, not unconverted weapons firing live ammo. And logically, CQB seems far too dangerous to use live ammo, even for trained SEALs. It would be one thing for them to do it if they were in an exercise, but we're talking about a movie set, where there are too many civilians (including the cameramen) around. Also, any shot where you see them firing and the camera is ahead of them will definitely NOT use live ammo (and there are many such shots during the final scene). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:36, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

==Salute==
The gunfire salute at the funeral is a 3-volley salute, not 21-gun. Only the President of the United States gets 21 guns. Military funerals have 3 volleys, with any number of weapons. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 23:16, 4 June 2012 (CDT)
:That was my mistake. I accidentally reverted that edit when I added all the images. Long story short I was editing the text in an external editor and then just copied and pasted it over. You are, of course, correct. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:52, 4 June 2012 (CDT)

== Great Movie ==

I saw this movie when it came out on DVD and was very impressed. You can definately tell these men are real professionals and not actors by the way they handle their rifles. Not 1 SEAL is muzzle swept during the house clearing, and great trigger discipline is shown by all SEALS. I wish they made a movie like this showing real Marines in action.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 13:31, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

User:MarineCorps1

2012-08-17T18:27:34Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Birthplace'''- South Korea, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- Airsoft, Xbox, snowboarding,

'''Job'''- 1141, Basic Electrician, United States Marine Corps

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, The Town, Act of Valor

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-The standard Marine Corps service rifle, can't go wrong with it, plus, I shot expert on the rifle rance with this weapon, iron sights.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable handgun with an even better round. I own a Kimber Warrior, great pistol.

'''Smith and Wesson M&P'''- Sold my Glock 19 for a S&W M&P. In my opinion, it looks better and has a really solid trigger pull. If I don't have my Kimber laying around, I would trust my life with my M&P.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- Just a cool looking gun. If the Winchester 73 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40/700'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper rifle ever made. A version used by Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Winchester Model 70'''- The same as the Remington 700 and M40, but in 30-06. A version used by "White Feather" Carlos Hathcock.

'''Barrett M82A3 SASR'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of 7.62, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.

== '''Favorite USMC Quotes''' ==

"From the time I touched that Remington 700, I was in love with it, I wanted to be a sniper. I'm gonna hunt something thats gonna hunt me back, Oh I love that."- '''Chuck Mawhinney'''- Most Confirmed kills in Marine Corps history, 103 with 216 probables.

"The sun glared off his lense of the scope I guess. I saw the glint, I shot it where the glint was... By looks of things, I was just the quickest on the trigger otherwise he would've killed me. How do I know he would've killed me? I shot right through his scope, right straight through his scope, didn't touch the sides and it didn't do his eyesight no good on that side either."- '''Carlos Hathcock'''- USMC scout sniper with 93 confired killed.

"The first guy I saw him pop up, slung the crosshairs over him, flipped the weapon onto kill, sent the round downrange... that hit its mark. It was just a pink mist."- '''Steve Reichert'''- USMC scout sniper, 1-mile killshot with Barret M82A3.

"We're surrounded... that simplifies the problem."- '''Lewis "Chesty" Puller'''- Most decorated Marine in history.

"Marines die, that's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' from Full Metal Jacket.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is the Marine and his rifle."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' from Full Metal Jacket.

"For over 200 years our Corps has done two things for this great Nation. We make Marines, and we win battles." various Marines including '''Charles C. Krulak'''

User talk:MarineCorps1

2012-08-17T18:16:18Z

MarineCorps1:

== Poolie ==

A poolie is a future Marine waiting with a ship date to go to the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in Paris Island or San Diego. The Marine Corps offers a program called the DEP or Delayed Entry Program. This will give you a prescribed date for basic training. While in the DEP you will go to a weekly training program to get you ready for basic training. Members in the DEP are called "poolies" normally trained by Marines, Recruiters, or even Drill Intructors. The weekly training programs are mandatory for the poolie to join. While in the DEP program, you must have no police involvement or recieve any tattoos or piercings. You are allowed tattoos once you are a Marine, but until them you must have a clean record and no body tattoos or piercings of any kind. Their are acceptions to this rule, but I am unsure of these.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 04:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Questions ==

Any questions feel free to visit the Marine Corps website at www.marines.com

How long have you been a marine?--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Im not a Marine yet, but I will be going to basic training in late August. Good luck to you in becoming a Marine.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 17:13, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you and good luck to you as well.Semper Fi. and are you going to paris island?--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Yes I am Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Paris Island, South Carolina.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 03:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

and i would just like to say that i agree with your choice of wepons. and i would like to point out that i prefer the H&K 416 to the M4--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

I've seen your choices too. I like the weapons, movies, chases, etc. that you chose.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 20:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Best of luck to you marine. Semper Fi --[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Happy Birthday==
I know im a little late, and that youre deployed. I just wanted to wish you, and every devil dog and leather neck a happy marine corps birthday. November 10th, 1775. Long live the Tun Tavern, and long live the marine corps. Semper Fi.--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

== Weapons "Diddies" from the Marine Corps ==
A "diddie" is a saying that the drill instructor teaches you. These are some of the diddies my drill instructors taught me.

1) Characteristics of the M16A4 service rifle- keyword "LMGAS"

L-Lightweight

M-Magazine fed

G-Gas opperated

A-Air cooled

S-Shoulder fired weapon.

2) 4 Weapons safety rules

1) Treat every weapon as if it were loaded

2) Never point the weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot

3) Keep your finger straight and off the trigger till you are ready to fire

4) Keep the weapon on safe untill you intend to fire

3) 4 Conditions of the M16A4 service Rifle

Condition 1- Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe

Condition 2- Does not apply to the M16A4 service rifle

Condition 3- Magazine inserted, chamber empty, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe

Condition 4- No Magazine inserted, chamber empty, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe.

Diddie- "Condition 4 is made for drill. Condition 1 is made to kill.

User talk:MarineCorps1

2012-04-29T05:19:06Z

MarineCorps1:

== Poolie ==

A poolie is a future Marine waiting with a ship date to go to the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in Paris Island or San Diego. The Marine Corps offers a program called the DEP or Delayed Entry Program. This will give you a prescribed date for basic training. While in the DEP you will go to a weekly training program to get you ready for basic training. Members in the DEP are called "poolies" normally trained by Marines, Recruiters, or even Drill Intructors. The weekly training programs are mandatory for the poolie to join. While in the DEP program, you must have no police involvement or recieve any tattoos or piercings. You are allowed tattoos once you are a Marine, but until them you must have a clean record and no body tattoos or piercings of any kind. Their are acceptions to this rule, but I am unsure of these.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 04:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== MEOP ==
MEOP standing for Musical Enlistment Optional Program. This is a special program in the Marines where there are 12 bands and The President's own Drum and Bugle Corps. I play the saxophone and hope to get into one of these bands. I hope to do this for a couple years to see how I like it and if I want to change my MOS to anything different or stay in my original MOS. Musician Marines are still trained as normal Marines going through the 12-13 week basic training course to become a Marine. "Every Marine is a basic Rifleman."--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 04:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Questions ==

Any questions feel free to visit the Marine Corps website at www.marines.com

How long have you been a marine?--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Im not a Marine yet, but I will be going to basic training in late August. Good luck to you in becoming a Marine.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 17:13, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you and good luck to you as well.Semper Fi. and are you going to paris island?--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Yes I am Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Paris Island, South Carolina.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 03:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

and i would just like to say that i agree with your choice of wepons. and i would like to point out that i prefer the H&K 416 to the M4--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

I've seen your choices too. I like the weapons, movies, chases, etc. that you chose.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 20:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Best of luck to you marine. Semper Fi --[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Happy Birthday==
I know im a little late, and that youre deployed. I just wanted to wish you, and every devil dog and leather neck a happy marine corps birthday. November 10th, 1775. Long live the Tun Tavern, and long live the marine corps. Semper Fi.--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

== Weapons "Diddies" from the Marine Corps ==
A "diddie" is a saying that the drill instructor teaches you. These are some of the diddies my drill instructors taught me.

1) Characteristics of the M16A4 service rifle- keyword "LMGAS"

L-Lightweight

M-Magazine fed

G-Gas opperated

A-Air cooled

S-Shoulder fired weapon.

2) 4 Weapons safety rules

1) Treat every weapon as if it were loaded

2) Never point the weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot

3) Keep your finger straight and off the trigger till you are ready to fire

4) Keep the weapon on safe untill you intend to fire

3) 4 Conditions of the M16A4 service Rifle

Condition 1- Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe

Condition 2- Does not apply to the M16A4 service rifle

Condition 3- Magazine inserted, chamber empty, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe

Condition 4- No Magazine inserted, chamber empty, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe.

Diddie- "Condition 4 is made for drill. Condition 1 is made to kill.

User talk:MarineCorps1

2012-04-29T05:18:18Z

MarineCorps1:

== Poolie ==

A poolie is a future Marine waiting with a ship date to go to the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in Paris Island or San Diego. The Marine Corps offers a program called the DEP or Delayed Entry Program. This will give you a prescribed date for basic training. While in the DEP you will go to a weekly training program to get you ready for basic training. Members in the DEP are called "poolies" normally trained by Marines, Recruiters, or even Drill Intructors. The weekly training programs are mandatory for the poolie to join. While in the DEP program, you must have no police involvement or recieve any tattoos or piercings. You are allowed tattoos once you are a Marine, but until them you must have a clean record and no body tattoos or piercings of any kind. Their are acceptions to this rule, but I am unsure of these.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 04:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== MEOP ==
MEOP standing for Musical Enlistment Optional Program. This is a special program in the Marines where there are 12 bands and The President's own Drum and Bugle Corps. I play the saxophone and hope to get into one of these bands. I hope to do this for a couple years to see how I like it and if I want to change my MOS to anything different or stay in my original MOS. Musician Marines are still trained as normal Marines going through the 12-13 week basic training course to become a Marine. "Every Marine is a basic Rifleman."--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 04:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Questions ==

Any questions feel free to visit the Marine Corps website at www.marines.com

How long have you been a marine?--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Im not a Marine yet, but I will be going to basic training in late August. Good luck to you in becoming a Marine.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 17:13, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you and good luck to you as well.Semper Fi. and are you going to paris island?--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Yes I am Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Paris Island, South Carolina.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 03:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

and i would just like to say that i agree with your choice of wepons. and i would like to point out that i prefer the H&K 416 to the M4--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

I've seen your choices too. I like the weapons, movies, chases, etc. that you chose.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 20:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Best of luck to you marine. Semper Fi --[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Happy Birthday==
I know im a little late, and that youre deployed. I just wanted to wish you, and every devil dog and leather neck a happy marine corps birthday. November 10th, 1775. Long live the Tun Tavern, and long live the marine corps. Semper Fi.--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

== Weapons "Diddies" from the Marine Corps ==
A "diddie" is a saying that the drill instructor teaches you. These are some of the diddies my drill instructors taught me.

1) Characteristics of the M16A4 service rifle- keyword "LMGAS"
L-Lightweight
M-Magazine fed
G-Gas opperated
A-Air cooled
S-Shoulder fired weapon.

2) 4 Weapons safety rules
1) Treat every weapon as if it were loaded
2) Never point the weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot
3) Keep your finger straight and off the trigger till you are ready to fire
4) Keep the weapon on safe untill you intend to fire

3) 4 Conditions of the M16A4 service Rifle

Condition 1- Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe
Condition 2- Does not apply to the M16A4 service rifle
Condition 3- Magazine inserted, chamber empty, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe
Condition 4- No Magazine inserted, chamber empty, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe.
Diddie- "Condition 4 is made for drill. Condition 1 is made to kill.

User talk:MarineCorps1

2012-04-29T05:16:47Z

MarineCorps1:

== Poolie ==

A poolie is a future Marine waiting with a ship date to go to the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in Paris Island or San Diego. The Marine Corps offers a program called the DEP or Delayed Entry Program. This will give you a prescribed date for basic training. While in the DEP you will go to a weekly training program to get you ready for basic training. Members in the DEP are called "poolies" normally trained by Marines, Recruiters, or even Drill Intructors. The weekly training programs are mandatory for the poolie to join. While in the DEP program, you must have no police involvement or recieve any tattoos or piercings. You are allowed tattoos once you are a Marine, but until them you must have a clean record and no body tattoos or piercings of any kind. Their are acceptions to this rule, but I am unsure of these.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 04:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== MEOP ==
MEOP standing for Musical Enlistment Optional Program. This is a special program in the Marines where there are 12 bands and The President's own Drum and Bugle Corps. I play the saxophone and hope to get into one of these bands. I hope to do this for a couple years to see how I like it and if I want to change my MOS to anything different or stay in my original MOS. Musician Marines are still trained as normal Marines going through the 12-13 week basic training course to become a Marine. "Every Marine is a basic Rifleman."--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 04:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Questions ==

Any questions feel free to visit the Marine Corps website at www.marines.com

How long have you been a marine?--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Im not a Marine yet, but I will be going to basic training in late August. Good luck to you in becoming a Marine.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 17:13, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you and good luck to you as well.Semper Fi. and are you going to paris island?--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Yes I am Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Paris Island, South Carolina.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 03:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

and i would just like to say that i agree with your choice of wepons. and i would like to point out that i prefer the H&K 416 to the M4--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

I've seen your choices too. I like the weapons, movies, chases, etc. that you chose.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 20:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Best of luck to you marine. Semper Fi --[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Happy Birthday==
I know im a little late, and that youre deployed. I just wanted to wish you, and every devil dog and leather neck a happy marine corps birthday. November 10th, 1775. Long live the Tun Tavern, and long live the marine corps. Semper Fi.--[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

== Weapons "Diddies" from the Marine Corps ==
A "diddie" is a saying that the drill instructor teaches you. These are some of the diddies my drill instructors taught me.

1) Characteristics of the M16A4 service rifle- keyword "LMGAS" L-Lightweight, M-Magazine fed, G-Gas opperated, A-Air cooled, S-Shoulder fired weapon.

2) 4 Weapons safety rules-
1) Treat every weapon as if it were loaded
2) Never point the weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot
3) Keep your finger straight and off the trigger till you are ready to fire
4) Keep the weapon on safe untill you intend to fire

3) 4 Conditions of the M16A4 service Rifle
Condition 1- Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe
Condition 2- Does not apply to the M16A4 service rifle
Condition 3- Magazine inserted, chamber empty, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe
Condition 4- No Magazine inserted, chamber empty, bolt forward, ejection port cover closed, weapon on safe.
Diddie- "Condition 4 is made for drill. Condition 1 is made to kill.

User:MarineCorps1

2012-04-29T05:07:13Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Birthplace'''- South Korea, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- Airsoft, Xbox, snowboarding,

'''Job'''- 1141, Basic Electrician, United States Marine Corps

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, The Town

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-Alongside the M16A2, the standard Marine Corps infantry rifle, can't go wrong with it.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable hangun to go with a hard hitting round. Another one of John Browning's fantastic designs.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- A cool looking gun with a hard hitting round. If the Winchester 73 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40/700'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper rifle ever made. A version used by Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Winchester Model 70'''- The same as the Remington 700 and M40, but in 30-06. A version used by "White Feather" Carlos Hathcock.

'''Barrett M107'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of semi-auto fire, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.

== '''Favorite USMC Quotes''' ==

"From the time I touched that Remington 700, I was in love with it, I wanted to be a sniper. I'm gonna hunt something thats gonna hunt me back, Oh I love that."- '''Chuck Mawhinney'''- Most Confirmed kills in Marine Corps history, 103 with 216 probables.

"The sun glared off his lense of the scope I guess. I saw the glint, I shot it where the glint was... By looks of things, I was just the quickest on the trigger otherwise he would've killed me. How do I know he would've killed me? I shot right through his scope, right straight through his scope, didn't touch the sides and it didn't do his eyesight no good on that side either."- '''Carlos Hathcock'''- USMC scout sniper with 93 confired killed.

"The first guy I saw him pop up, slung the crosshairs over him, flipped the weapon onto kill, sent the round downrange... that hit its mark. It was just a pink mist."- '''Steve Reichert'''- USMC scout sniper, 1-mile killshot with Barret M82A3.

"We're surrounded... that simplifies the problem."- '''Lewis "Chesty" Puller'''- Most decorated Marine in history.

"Marines die, that's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' from Full Metal Jacket.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is the Marine and his rifle."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' from Full Metal Jacket.

"For over 200 years our Corps has done two things for this great Nation. We make Marines, and we win battles." various Marines including '''Charles C. Krulak'''

User talk:Simmons 8492

2011-08-27T02:37:51Z

MarineCorps1:

--dan simmons 22:12, 5 December 2010 (UTC)Hey guys i know people like to talk on these pages so any questions or comments on any thing im open and im currently looking for help with revamping Justified . great Tv show and i need help . if you can please i need help. .[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]
==images==
I added a SIG P228 pic to your page, not sure what the problem is. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:53, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

:In the future, please post on either my Talk Page, or Predator20's, or that of anyone else who has Admin status (the list of admins is [[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|here]]). If you are having trouble with something, we'll be glad to help you. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:22, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

well i thank you boty. i dont recall doing that but if i ofended you i sincerly apologize. and the main problem is that when iad the the picture it is on the far side of the page. i might be doing some thin wrong . thanks.[[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

As a mater of fact the SIG p220 is doing it now.

Instead of having |thumb|right|300px| chanage it to |thumb|none|300px| --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:00, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

thank you so much. im in your debt. and as a mater of fact i just realised what i was doing wrong .[[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

::No offense taken, LOL, just helping out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

well both you and predator20 have done nothing but that.[[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

== Making actor pages ==

Please watch your spelling and capitalization as well as the formatting when making pages for actors. Please refer to the corrected [[Coby Bell]] page as an example for future pages. Thanks. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:28, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

well i stated his page later yesterday and was going to hop on and finish it later on that night but some thing came up . a majority of the time it takes some time to do a page . but being that [[Coby Bell]] was only my third page ,[[Mark Feuerstein]] was my second and my user page was my first , im still learning . so ill use [[Coby Bell]] as a refence for the future. thank you [[User:Ben41|Ben41]] i am currently learning to make pages. and can you check [[Burn Gorman]] i just added the MAC-10 and his film section -[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

You are getting better with the pages, but you only need to capitalize the name of the actor and not every word. You might want to cut and paste the "Actor Title" template for future pages. Check out the revised [[Ali Suliman]] page for reference. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

so basicaly i have i down just the little details need reviseing . thanks brother-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

== Couple More Things ==

Make sure on the actor pages that you place the "gun" first, then the character name, then the movie title. Also, you may want to check over your personal page for spelling and grammar (right now, it's a little tough to read). Also on the M1911A1 caption, it may be best to cut your comments out of the "caption" portion of the picture and place it above the gun picture for easier reading. Let us know if you need help with this. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 00:25, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

well currently i got some things up in the air so give me some time and ill work it out[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

== Ellen Page and actor's pages ==

Please remember when making pages such as [[Ellen Page]]'s actor page, the Gun is 1st, then the character name, then the movie. Thanks. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 08:01, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

== Actor Pages again ==

Please make sure you preview your edits for spelling and grammar before finalizing (the year was missing from the tables). Sometimes, the picture tends to be formatted too big, which makes the table look awkward. It's best to reduce the pic size to either 400px or 500px. Also, it's best to do a search by last name to see if an actor has appeared in anything else on the site ([[Michael Offei]] was also in [[Casino Royale (2006)]]). Thanks. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 21:44, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok i just did [[Oscar Isaac]]'s page . i followed your directions to the letter and did my best . how is it?-[[User:Simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Good job with the page! Just remember in the future to include the film title in the picture's caption. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:11, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

thank you for the help

== Your Quotes ==

You have some good quotes, but you may want to mention who said it and from what film. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 00:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Well thank you. i allways intended to do that, but i just never got around to it. ill do that right now

Here's how you might want to do it:

"The greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist." - Roger "Verbal" Kint, ''[[The Usual Suspects]]''

--[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 01:03, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Well i put the actors name in it also. i have been known to quote lines from movies and tv so theres gonna be alot more too come

== Please check your spelling on your user page 2==

It's Assault Rifles. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:23, 29 March 2011 (CDT)

"Organized" --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:54, 13 April 2011 (CDT)

==Px4 Storm==
Hey, the Px4 I shot was a rental at a local gun store. I can't say I was shooting to see how it handled but was shooting just to have fun. From what I remember, the recoil was very manageable and I was shooting pretty decent groups but like I said, I wasn't shooting to test out how well it shot and such, just shooting to let out some steam from college stress. But what I can say is that, it more or less convinced me into getting one once I turn 21 (only a few more month!) and save up enough money. Good luck trying to find one since your in New York, but I think you will enjoy shooting it. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 18:56, 5 June 2011 (CDT)
:A 4th gen Glock is Glock's latest release on the pistol series. In terms of outer appearance, it looks like a gen 3 but you can notice lines on the grip where you can remove and insert different grip panels to create a better grip depending on the person's hand size. The whole interchangeable grip seems to be the latest fad when it comes to guns, but it doesn't bother me. If I remember correctly, I believe the texturing on the grip is also different, but I can't remember if they are the same on the slide. I read that there are differences internally but as that was also a rental, I don't think they would have allowed me to disassemble the gun to check out the internals, even if I could have correctly. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 21:14, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

==Sals Questions==
I Have A Buddy,Who Im Am [[Training Day|Training]] In The Ways Of IMFDB, Who asks alot of questions about guns, movies tv, ECT. so i set up this section for him. any questions he or anyone has for me, about the marshals, or a firearm, just ask it here, ill get back to you as soon as possible.Im Also Making a List Of Films That, In My Opnion, He Should see. Im Going To Be Puting Them On A recomended watch List. I Will Also Be Giving a Reson Why The Film Is A Recomended Watch. Feel Free To Add, But DO NOT Remove From This List. If You Add A Film, Put IA Reason As To Why It Is A Recomended Watch. If One Feels A Movie Should Not Be on The Aformentioned List, Voice Your Concern With Me, And I Will Take It Under Consideration. This Will Never Be Compleete, Constant Work In Progress!!!!!![[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492's]] recomended watch List:

[[Layer Cake]]. I Started Of With This Because In My Opnion, Is Daniel Craig At His Finest. The Monolog At The end, Where He Lists Everyone Who Died Through out The Film. Great Film

[[The Prestige]] Christopher Nolan At His Best. This Is Such A Quoteable Movie, And At The End, It All Comes Together and your Left Saying Wow, That Was Great.

[[Blood Diamond]] This Is A Great Movie. It Takes The Get Rich Mentality Of A Man, And Changes It And Shows Him Whats Important. It Also Shows What A Man Will Endure To Get His Son Back.

[[Street Kings]] This Isnt Your Run Of The Mill, Bad Cop who Follows His Own Set Of Rules Movie. This Is a Cop Whos Willing To Do What It Takes To Catch A Criminal, And Doesnt Care If He Gets A Little Dirty In The Process. But That All Changes When He Stumbles Apon A Web Of Dirty Cops, And Finds Himself Ar The Head Of An IA Investigation.

[[Apocalypse Now]] The, Rather Outlandish, But Amazing Tail Of A Goverment Sanctioned Assassination That Takes One US Army Captain Further down The Rabit Hole Then He Intended. After All, We were In Nam, Not Cambodia, Right?

[[Blade Runner]] This Film Is Better Then All Six Star wars Films. the Performances of [[Rutger Hauer]] And [[Harrison Ford]] Are TWo Of The Best Ever Seen. The Ending House Scene Where Deckard Is Being Stalked By The Howeling Batty made this Film For Me

[[Se7en]] The Best, And Deadliest, Game Of Cat And Mouse played out by a Detective, new to Homicide, and A Detective on the brink of retirement. This Film Will Leave You Asking, "Whats In The Box?"

[[28 Weeks Later]] I Know How Much You Like Zombies Sal, This Is My Favorite Zombie Film To Date. The Recovery And Then The Quick Relapse of The Military. And How [[Jeremy Renner|Doyle]] And The Rest Of The Delta Snipers Are Forced To Fire During The Code Red. Great Movie

[[Manhunter]] My Favorite Film In The Hannibal the Cannibal Series. How Graham Becomes The Killer To Catch The Killer, And The Ending Scene Where The FBI Agents Are Aproaching The House. Gives Me Goosebunps Everytime.

[[Heat]] Ask Anyone On This Site, They All Love Heat.; The Giant Shootout is To Die For, As Tom Seizemore can Tell you. The Ending line is My Favorite. But Being That You Hate [[AK-47|Something]] Alot Of People On This Site Love, This Film Might Not Be For You.

[[File:IMG 0444.JPG|thumb|none|400px|[[Colt MK IV Series 80]] - .45 The weapon pictured here is the actual screen-used handgun used from the film ''[[Street Kings]]'' and also the TV series ''[[Dark Blue (TV Series)|Dark Blue]]'' and ''[[Chase]]''.]]

[[Image:USPCompact45.jpg|thumb|350px|none|[[Heckler & Koch USP#Heckler & Koch USP Compact|USP Compact]] - .45 ACP. Im going to get an airsoft one of these in october]]

== Ship Date ==

Just want to thank you for supporting my decision with the Marine Corps. I am leaving this Monday, August 29, 2011 for Parris Island. Thanks for your support. --[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:37, 26 August 2011 (CDT)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2011-07-22T13:10:00Z

MarineCorps1:

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in ''[[Uncommon Valor]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film ''[[Scarface]]''. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A1 with 20-round magazine, fitted with scope - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:607-2-sm-741x267.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mockcommando.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:GUU-5P.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GUU-5/P - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Colt Law Enforcement Model 6920 Carbine..jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Law Enforcement Carbine with ACOG scope and PentagonLight MD3R weaponlight, screen-used weapon from ''[[I Am Legend]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M148.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm with a mounted [[XM148 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:K3B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Olympic Arms K3B carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A3 Carbine with EOTech red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A4M203ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 rifle - 5.56x45mm with ACOG scope and M203 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:CAXM177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Classic Army XM177 airsoft replica rifle - 5.56x45mm (of the type used by SF troops in some scenes of the movie ''[[Green Zone]]'').]]
[[Image:Cam15a4tacticalcarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Classic Army M15A4 airsoft carbine rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
this is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:M653M203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 653 5.56x45mm with magazine removed and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

An airsoft gun and a cap gun aren't the same thing. LOL [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:43, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Caddilac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

So why not update this page to include current issue M16A4 rifles?
(unless you don't know what they are....)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16 series are the ONLY assault rifles (except the [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:g41-series&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&Itemid=5/ HK G41], which is made to be like the M16 and is no longer produced) in the world to have a forward assist. Why don't other assault rifles have a forward assist? (ie. the AK-74, G36 etc.) Because other assault rifles are more reliable and don't need it. :)
::Uh more associated with the design of the Bolt than being more reliable. The AK series have a bolt handle attached DIRECTLY to the bolt carrier as do many other designs. If there is debris or fouling in the chamber which keeps a round from seating properly you can just jam the handle forward (I've done this in the field when my AK / Garand / Galil / M 14 / etc jammed) I once had a tiny piece of bark (I was firing under trees) which fell from above and fell into the ejection port and made the round 'stick' really badly in the chamber so that it would not seat properly. The M16 design has no way other than the forward assist to nudge the bolt & carrier forward enough to fire and kick that crap free of the action. But I wouldn't bash the M16 as an "unreliable" rifle. I'd sure take it into battle right now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright, I understand. thanks for the extra info. I'm not saying the M16/M4 is a complete piece of crap, but it's definitely not the BEST ASSAULT RIFLE IN THE WORLD! like we Americans like to state all the time (*rolls eyes*). You and me both know the M16/M4 is no where as reliable as the G36 or the AK series. But at least it's better than the L85 series, now that's a piece crap rifle. :D *Edit: Well at least the L85A1, the L85A2 is OK. kinda like the M16/M16A1s sucks but the M16A2/A4s are good.

::::I have to completely disagree with what you say, i don't wish to come off as passive aggresive but you sound like a mall ninja that learned their weapons knowledge from seeing them perform in videogames or hearing public opinions on weapons from the news or other sources. The M16 family of rifles are both fine and fairly reliable weapons, while much of that view has been skewed by the fact they were portrayed as unreliable during conflicts such as Vietnam, is incorrect to a degree. The M16 is a reliable and capable weapon when cleaned and properly maintained, it simply lacks the ability to stay so when not properly serviced, as some other rifles such as the AKM can function fine without cleaning, the M16 can not. As for your comment on the L85 series, yes they were somewhat poor and unreliable weapons at first, coupled with poor grips and clumsy to handle for certain users, however the newer models have made large improvements and are very capable firearms. As i feel it needs to be said (or typed) a common mistake people make is assuming that militaries have access and funding to field their troops with the best weapons available, which is not always the case as most countries don't have the money to field an Army with rifles that can cost up to $5000-10000 per unit. Which is where the workhorses like M16's come in, you go for the "good" rifle not the "great" one. Also, although off-topic it somewhat pertains to the M16, most mall ninja's assume the AK-family is better because it is more reliable and fires a heavier cartridge, I've always asked "would you want a round that's going to pierce right through an enemy and leave an easy to treat wound, or have a round that hits an enemy and fragments inside them causing an ungodly bloody mess?" Hopefully esteemed imfdb members such as MPM2008 will agree with and share my viewpoint concerning this subject, as well as not condemn me for my long comment. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 13:24, 06 March 2011 (UTC)

::::The issues of jamming during the Vietnam War had more to do with ammunition and the lack of a chrome-lined chamber and barrel than the rifle's so-called "dirty" gas system. In 1964 the Army switched from stick powder to ball powder, which increased the rate of fire to over 1,000 RPM and left a lot of dirty residue in the weapon. This was only exacerbated by the lack of cleaning kits and training on how to maintain the weapon. They fixed the issue by fitting the rifle with a buffer system (which slowed the ROF down) and chrome-plated chamber. Training programs in weapon maintenance were instituted and an instruction book on how to maintain the rifle was circulated among troops. After further modifications resulted in the M16A1, many of the reliability issues disappeared (although even today, the weapon has yet to shed its bad reputation). The M16A2, A3, A4, and M4 carbine of today are an entirely different breed of warrior than the prototypes that were issued back in the 60s. While it may admittedly be a bit finicky, the M16 today is a good weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah but it's still a very fussy weapon, it's not very durable, and it has much more malfunctions/jams then say the H&K G36, but none the less it's still a excellent weapons platform, mostly. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- No prob, dude - I'm just glad you got what I was gettin' at. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

i would be shocked if they couldnt pick their weapons. their the best soldiers on the planet. it just doesnt make sense not to be able to. it would be like giving a star baseball player a 10 dollar glove. itll do but why wouldnt they get the best thats out there. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Reg army units use the burst M4, not the full auto A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

A couple of months ago when I was at a military base there were Marines conducting a weapons demo with the M4 carbine. It was the 3-round burst rifle, but a question came up about the M4A1. One Marine said that they got rid of all M4A1s and only have M4s. I personally don't see the need for a full-auto rifle and 3-round burst is fine because it forces the user to slow down and most of the time the user uses semi-only, combat or not, but that is my opinion. The M4A1 is still probabley used by the US Military, but I'm not sure, I haven't seen one in a long time.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Accurized Rifle ==

After seeing several pages of real firearms appearing in only one film or game, I was wondering if I should expand this page with a new section for the [http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp Colt Accurized Rifle], which to my knowledge has only ever appeared in [[S.W.A.T. 4]]. Before I do that, I need to confirm two things:

*Is the Colt Accurized Rifle indeed another variant on the M16 line of rifles, or a separate take on the AR-15 design altogether? I suppose there's a reason why we don't include the [[Z-M LR 300]] in the M16 page because it's the latter--I need to know if the Colt Accurized Rifle falls in that category.
*Including it on this page would make it the first Designated Marksman Rifle variant here. So far I only see assault rifles or carbines here. Would including a DMR in this page be a problem or not?

If there are no real problems, I'll make a new section for it, but I have no idea where I'll get a non-copyright infringment image of one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:It'd be the '''second''' DMR on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but can someone confirm that the Colt Accurized Rifle is indeed descended from the M16 line of assault rifles and not a separate take on the AR-15 design like the aforementioned LR-300 is? I still have no idea where I can get a photo of this DMR that respects copyright. All I have are game screenshots. Some help here, please? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Removeable Carry Handle for Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Does such a Gun exist?

:Not as a production gun (Colt's website makes no mention of one, anyway), but the modular nature of the AR system makes such a configuration entirely possible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==Why do we have a Colt AR-15 SP1 category that is separate from the M16/SP1 category?==
The guns look the same, sure the SP1 had a design change in 1978 (three prong flash hider was changed to birdcage, rear sling swivel was changed to A1 style and the color went from greenish grey to straight grey) but unless we see the stamp on the side that says "Property of U.S. Government" we can't tell if it's a real M16 (which WERE sold via Title II dealers to armories) and a Colt AR15 SP1 which was converted to full auto (which was done A LOT prior to 1986). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== About M4 Commando and M16A4 Full Auto ==

Full Auto M16A4 (Model 905) is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901]

[http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com_2.asp Model 933] ''is'' M4 Commando (Full Auto)

[http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp Manufacturer's site] says it all.

== Colt Model 653 barrel length ==

Am trying to pin down what a gun is for a page I'm working on. It has a forward assist but no deflector, A1 rear sight, M4 length tubular handguard, 16" barrel with birdcage flash hider and a solid stock. Basically it matches the gun in the picture for the Model 653 on the main page, apart from having a solid stock but that is easily changeable. However, every source I can find about the 653 says that it has a 14" barrel. Was the gun made in different barrel lengths but kept the same designation, and if not, anyone know what the gun is that is pictured as a 653? Also, while I'm on the topic of obscure colt carbines, does anyone know of a model that will match a 725 (original C8 without the flat-top) but has an A2 rear sight? Thanks, --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:16, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Can anyone figure out what this is? ==

I found this hidden in my computer, I think it's a Colt Canada C7A1 as a base, I can tell it's C7 because of the Canadian leaf on the the lower receiver, it would be an A1 because of the removable carrying-handle. What the heck is that hand-guard? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:02, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
[[Image:Colt Canada C7A1 SPW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C7A1 SPW?]]

::Colt Model 750/Diemaco C7 Light Support Weapon - A modified C7 with an enlarged gas tube (hence the square handguard) and a heavy barrel for sustained fire in the squad automatic weapon role. The C7 LSW is not used by the Canadian Forces but has seen service with the Dutch and Danish militaries. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:34, 28 April 2011 (CDT)
:::Ha! I thought so, thanks. :) Should I remove this section or keep it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

::That's not Colt LSW, that's [http://www.colt.com/mil/CAR.asp Colt Automatic Rifle]. Follow the link and you will see that the image is the larger version of the official one. Meanwhile, [http://www.coltcanada.com/lsw-page.htm Colt LSW] has optional folding carry handle. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:09, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
[[File:Lsw-annot.jpg]]
:::Thanks guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:02, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

::Just to clarify, the Colt automatic rifle, LSW and LMG are all the same weapon. The original version that looks like the one above was the Colt Model 750, which featured a fixed A2 carry handle and barrel mounted bi-pod, and the newer version above is the current production Model 950, with the relocated bi-pod and A4 rear sights. As you said, the folding carry handle is removeable, and the picture on the Colt website is just one without it fitted (note the longer centre vent on the top of the handguard is the mounting point for the handle). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:48, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
:::The original version was based on M16A1:

[[File:M16A1 CAR.jpg]]

:::The one you described was based on M16A2:

[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg]]

Guys, remember back in the 1980s when Colt was trying to vie for the SAW role? Sure the FN Minimi was never knocked off its perch, but Colt came out with a Colt light Machine gun that looked a lot like this. They were selling the barreled uppers on the market for a while in the early 1990s (I know a few friends who have them, but I never got one). This looks like that reincarnated!!! LOL![[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:24, 29 April 2011 (CDT)
:Well, that's all written on [http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/m16-lsw-lmg-e.html Modern Firearms] :P

::Ah yes, you only read about it monkeyboy ;) I was handling and firing that sucker! LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:11, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, and I've found articles of why AR is more advantageous than SAW to US Marine Corps:

:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-employment-concepts M249 Employment Concepts]
:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-light-machinegun-automatic-rifle-role The M249 Light Machinegun In The Automatic Rifle Role]

: Interesting reading, methinks :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 30 April 2011 (CDT)
::Yeah it was. :) You know, I kinda knew LMGs were dying out. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:07, 1 May 2011 (CDT)
::: Not overall, it's just the role they are being used in (automatic rifleman). SAW is still very good in defensive role and laying fire on attacking forces ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

== Heat Dissipation Performance of Carbine Barrel Types? ==

I was wondering, does anyone know what kind of effects the 'cuts' (originally meant for the mounting of the M203 grenade launcher) in the barrel of the M4 and similiarly-styled M16 & AR-15 series carbines has on the heat dissipation performance of the barrel? Do the cuts help the weapon release heat from prolonged firing better than a barrel that has a uniform thickness, or does it hamper that? Any input anyone can provide on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:46, 8 May 2011 (CDT)
:The step down for the grenade launcher is actually pretty negligible in terms of cooling (although it does create a point of weakness to bending), as what you can't see is the fact that as soon as the barrel goes under the handguard it is reduced down to the same narrow diameter as in the cut out, which creates a much bigger effect on cooling. The narrower profile sections have the effect of cooling down the barrel quicker, but they also conversely mean that the barrel heats up quicker, and the heat has a larger effect on the accuracy of the gun. The main advantage however is that it reduces the weight quite a bit. The original reason that the M4 barrel reduces in size behind the handguard is based on the M16A2, which does exactly the same thing where its heavy barrel is actually only thicker past the front sight. This was due to a cock up in the design, where they designed the gun with a full thickness straight barrel, and found that they could then no longer clamp the M203 to the barrel, so the barrels were simply turned down from behind the front sight post. The front of the barrel was left thick due to the fact that the thinner barrels on the M16A1 were being bent at the front from being used as pry-bars to get the loading bands off of shipping pallets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:There is a heavier "SOCOM-profile" barrel that maintains the same diameter beneath the handguards as the standard M4-profile barrel does around the M203 cut and it can mount the M203 just fine.[http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BCM-URG-M4-14SOCOM-2.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:40, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== can you tell me what model of m16/car 15 this is ==

sorry i do not have a pic but i can tell you what is like. me and my dad were talikng about some of the guns he used in the army and he was telling me about this one he said was like an carbine version of the m16a2 and it was like the m4 but had a fixed carring handle and it was used befor the m4 it had safe semi and burst and he said it just had ar15 on the side.-Steviebleckley

:Sounds like the first batch of M4s that were delivered. This is the Colt Model 777, which is basically an M4 with a fixed carry handle, and 3-round burst as opposed to full auto. It is the brother of and visually identical to the 727 mentioned on the main page, where the 727 as full auto as opposed to the burst. If it didn't have the M4 profile barrel though, god knows. Probably a model 654 on an M16 lower receiver or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:02, 13 June 2011 (CDT)

yes it had the same profile as the m4. i gess it was the 777.I will show him the pic of the the 727 since there the same well the 727 is full auto thanks for the info - Steviebleckley

== Question about the buffer tube ==

I'm not one hundred percent sure what it does, and (like the forward assist) that almost no other guns have it. If someone could just clarify, what does it do, why does this rifle series have it, and why don't others/what replaces the buffer tube in other rifles? Thank you in advance. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:27, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
:Basically, it was installed in order to slow down the rate of fire. The very first M16s ended up using a different ammunition powder than they were designed for, which caused a higher rate of fire than desired (about 800 to 1000 rpm I think), leading to excessive fouling in the chamber, and hence lots of stopages. From the M16E1 onwards a buffer tube was added to slow the rate of fire to about 600-700 rpm, and a chrome lined chamber and barrel was added as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:47, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
I'm not sure if this is practical in any way, or even possible, but is their a way to increase the rate of fire on an M16 without the problems of the carbon build-up in the chamber?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)
:Why would you want to increase the rate of fire? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)
No reason, just wondering if it's even possible with a full-auto M16.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 08:09, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2011-07-22T04:29:30Z

MarineCorps1:

Talk:Tears of the Sun

2011-07-22T03:40:41Z

MarineCorps1:

Well, I'm done. How does it look? -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

:Great! Except that the weapon you IDed as an "AKS-47" is actually a Chinese Type 56-1. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
::It needs a small rewrite though.[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I added caps from the alternate opening of the director's cut of the film. They have the triangular handguards of the 'Nam-era M16s, but I couldn't get any clear shots of the receivers for further ID. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:Please put captions on the screencaps. Please?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:56, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

::Didn't really know what exactly to put, but I hope those captions suffice. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
:::Thank you Spartan! Great Job! Those captions suffice. Even if they are generic they suffice.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:03, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

::::I'm sure you've noticed, but you also need the gun picture and the page links. Remember, if you're going to make additions, it's totally welcome, but please follow format. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
::I don't think gun pictures are needed in this case since Spartan doesn't know what kind of M16s they are.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:04, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

:::You can always guess. And that only addresses half my request. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:I do not understand why the medic and the signaller, who would carry the heaviest loads, are both armed with heavier weapons plus ammunition.

i wouldnt call the m203 the heaviest load . theres the M60 , but that is strange . usualy some one else would have tham to cover those two positions but its a movie . -[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

== Not an M1A ==

If you enlarge the second picture and look at the stock near the rear of the reciever, you'll see that it is cut for the selector switch. No M1A stock is like this, but all wood stocked M21 are since they're just rebarreled M14s with the selector removed and a scope attached. --[[User:Zurak 47|Zurak 47]] 14:51, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

:I just watched the film again and I agree with you. His rifle obviously has a cut-out for a selector switch , and M1A rifles were never fitted with stocks that had a cut-out for a selector switch, since they were civilian rifles. -Jacco Croon-

::Somebody should do something about this. [[User:BurtReynoldsMoustache|BurtReynoldsMoustache]]

::: It is correct, the first screencap itself shows a notch for a fire-selector, which is not on any civilian semi-auto-only rifles, only actual M14s and M21s. As to whether this is an M14 or M21 I'm not particularly certain (The same mod involving removing the selector was done on normal M14s), however, it indeed is not an M1A. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:30, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

: EDIT - Going through the edit logs, I've found it was previously called an M25, which from what I gather, is what the Navy designates the M21 as (The Army uses the M21 designation). SO, to be accurate, I'll edit to M25 instead of M21. Of course, I still doubt whether it is an actual M21/M25 and not just a modded M14, but I guess we'll burn that bridge when we come to it. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 18:19, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

It's a Modded M1A. you can see the reciver through the notch in the stock and not only is it missing the selector lock that is on a real M21/M25 but it is missing the Lug that mounts Select fire control parts. It is an M1A. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:03, 24 April 2011 (CDT)

== Shotgun muzzle device... ==

...is a "duckbill choke" intended to spread the shot pattern horizontally vs. vertically. They were also used by Vietnam era SEALS, primarily on pump shotguns. The intent is to have an effective, short ranges anti-ambush weapon for the point man. By aiming in the general direction of an identified ambusher and maintaining a horizontal hold, the shotgun can be effective against that ambusher as well as having a chance to hit/distract others close around him. In jungle and forest terrain with limited visibility and engagement ranges, ambushers would have to bunch up in order to maximize firepower on a patrol, especially along a trail.

== The new layout ==
Whoever changed the pages layout to the guns being organized by gun type. yea, dont do that again as i dont like it nor do i think the page that '''I''' made and put a lot of effort into. If you want to do that to your page, knock yourself out, but do '''not''' do this to any of my pages again. Thank you. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]

Chill the hell out! Christ!

== The Knives ==

And Knives ???

Where are you??

:IM'''F'''DB. Firearms unless a cultural reference i.e. Rambo's knives. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]

Here are the main knives used; Emerson Police Utility Knife, Sog X-42 Recondo and Emerson Kandahar. Gunner313

== Doc's AK ==

Doc is carrying older AK 47 not AKM. He also has early type magazine on it.

== PP or PPK? ==

The PP looks a little short. Are we sure it's not a PPK? --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 05:27, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

It looks like a FEG PA-63 to me.

==Uniform Goofs==

Just thought I'd point out a goof I noticed in the Marines' uniforms at the end of the film; they had the sleeves of their BDU uniforms rolled up. This is ONLY done when in garrison, NEVER during combat. Some people might also say that their BDU's were somewhat anachronistic as well, but this can be debatable as the digital MARPAT uniform was still being distributed to Marines. In fact, news footage of the 2003 invasion of Iraq (which took place the same year this film came out) often shows Marines wearing the older 3-color Desert Combat Uniform instead of MARPAT (when they weren't covered by woodland-patterned MOPP gear due to fears that Saddam might try to use WMD's against coalition forces).
::Technically manning a refugee checkpoint is NOT considered a battle zone. I've asked that question of Jarheads and they said that (a) it was probably really hot and humid and (b) whatever the uniform of the day dictated would be what they were wearing and (c) the moment a senior officer gets fed up and rolls up his sleeves because of the heat, all bets are off, the rest of the brigade will be doing it. They are not actively patrolling for enemy combatants or on an actual combat mission. They're border security at a refugee camp. So yes, that is the rule and in the field there are always exceptions to the rule. At least that's what my USMC vet associates have said. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
:::I'm afraid I have to disagree; the Marines weren't manning that checkpoint, they had just landed there via helicopter from the ''Stennis'' to extract Waters' team, which would likely count as a combat mission since Waters' team was under heavy enemy attack when the Marines initially deployed(albet the threat was neutralized by air support by the time the Marines got boots on the ground) and were in full battle gear as if expecting to engage hostiles themselves. Not trying to start an arguement, just pointing out an oversight in your asessment. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:20, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::You're right if they are landing from a helicopter into a hotzone then it is a combat OP and they would have their sleeves down. Though that is operational doctrine, I would at least opine (according to MANY COMBAT vets in past wars, not now, but back to even NAM) that regs got loose the more combat you saw. Even among marines. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

[[Image:TOTS M16A2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|US Marines at the Cameroon border, incorrectly having the sleeves of ther BDU's rolled up while in a combat zone.]]

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 02:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

== M203s are Cobray 37mm Launchers ==

I'm pretty sure that both the M203s on Doc and Zee's M4s are Cobray 37mm launchers. I'm basing this on the screenshots taken. If you blow them up to full size you can see the cocking handle on them.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:14, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
:I'm looking at a very nice close-up of the receiver on Doc's launcher at the 1 hour mark of the film (the scene where they're at rest and everyone's eating) on my TV and I can tell you there's no cocking handle and the trigger guard is a rounded shape rather than square like a CM203's trigger guard is. They are indeed actual M203s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:20, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

== Biased, Personal Comments ==

Does it really matter if a Beretta 92FS made it into the movie or not? The comment of "While I was hoping to get through a movie without a Beretta 92FS, but sure enough, one shows up in the hands of a militant officer" seems unnecessary. [[Special:Contributions/71.200.27.204|71.200.27.204]] 11:17, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yes it is unnecessary. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 13:23, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Berettas appear in pretty much most modern movies involving lots of guns, plus it doesn't really make sense of how it this militant officer had one. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.) Its not a problem to see the comment so just leave it as is.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Nope, IT IS UNNECESSARY. Or at least change the tone of the comment, making it more scholastic, and not the musing of a snarky, sarcastic critic. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

Why wouldn't the militant officer be able to get one? they can buy arms just like any other country. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

That comment has always annoyed me too. If you're going to lament the ubiquity of Beretta 92s in movies, you might as well complain about all the Thompsons in WW2 films, or Peacemakers in Westerns. I may not like the Smith and Wesson semi-automatics, but I understand there are people who do, for valid reasons, so I keep my opinions to myself, instead of using the IMFDB as a soapbox to espouse my hate for them.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 22:33, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

For the record, it was originally a sarcastic comment due to the fact that all of the movies ive done in the past have had Berettas in them and being sarcastic doesnt work in writing. And honestly, i love Berettas and own one of my own. Sorry for the trouble. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winchester]]

just saying but the movie battle of the bulge used all Grease Guns or at least dominately which is a nice change. just saying [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 01:33, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Missiles ==

Is it worth pointing out that the Hornets missile load outs are all air-to-air weapons, which would be useless against ground targets? Or is that to far out of IMFDB's area of jurisdiction? [[User:Pravda616|Pravda616]] 17:59 4/3/11
:I've never found any AIM-9 Sidewinder or AIM-120 AMRAAM pages on this site, so I surmise that yes, aircraft ordinance such as missiles and bombs are out of the scope of the site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:55, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== History ==

Just wondering, has there ever been a time in history that the US Military was in Nigeria? I know the US has been in Africa, but I haven't heard of Nigeria, great movie by the way.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 22:40, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

Talk:2 Fast 2 Furious

2011-06-27T02:17:37Z

MarineCorps1:

OK, so this movie may not be good, but the Blu Ray images sure do make it look good on IMFDB. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

==The Glock==

Actually I believe in the movie it was a 9mm Model 26 or .40 S&W Model 27, it had a grip too short to be a Model 19.

:This can't be a sub-compact (either a G26 or -27). If you look closely, you can see that it has a rail under the barrel. The sub-compact Glocks don't have that. If it looks small, it's because Paul Walker is probably a pretty big guy with decent-sized hands. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Electrical System Disabler (ESD) harpoon launchers ==

the Electrical System Disabler (ESD) harpoon launchers look ridiculous. if they made them look like grenade launchers with a simple screen it could have been a believable weapon system.

== Benelli M1 Super 90 ==

I remember when I first watched this Movie. Spoiler Warning!

When they crash the car onto the Boat, you hear Carter pump his benelli has he approaches the Car.

He is shot in the shoulder and fires the Benelli into the air before dropping it.

It is then picked up by Monica who doesn't reload the shotgun.

I know now the Benelli is an Automatic Shotgun.

But where does the Pump sound come from?

:It was inserted by the folly editor in post-production, that's where it came from. Probably because it sounded cooler to hear the sound of the shotgun being menacingly cocked in order to let the audience know Carter was approaching. Even though the M1 Super 90 doesn't have a pump to rack. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:01, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

== USP Two-Tone slide ==

After doing some reseearch i found two explanations for the extremily shiny slide: Chrome polished to a mirror shine or... The slide is plated in white gold --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 02:48, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

== Roberto's USP ==

During the fight on the boat, before O'Connor gives Roberto back his weapon, he racks the slide and you hear a round fall and hit the ground. This is good, but normally a bad guy would have more than one round in his weapon, so if this is true than O'Connor didn't unload the weapon. He just racks one round out of the chamber giving Roberto a weapon with a new round in the chamber. --[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:17, 26 June 2011 (CDT)

User:MarineCorps1

2011-06-22T19:51:44Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Anyone who doesn't understand what a "poolee" in the Marine Corps is look at discussion'''

'''Birthplace'''- South Korea, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- Airsoft, Xbox, snowboarding,

'''Future Plans'''- United States Marine Corps, just turned poolee yesterday- September 14,2010. Ship date is in Late August, looking at MEOP for primary MOS, but may switch to different MOS later in the Marines.

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, The Town

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-Alongside the M16A2, the standard Marine Corps infantry rifle, can't go wrong with it.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable hangun to go with a hard hitting round. Another one of John Browning's fantastic designs.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- A cool looking gun with a hard hitting round. If the Winchester 73 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40/700'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper rifle ever made. A version used by Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Winchester Model 70'''- The same as the Remington 700 and M40, but in 30-06. A version used by "White Feather" Carlos Hathcock.

'''Barrett M107'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of semi-auto fire, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.

== '''Favorite USMC Quotes''' ==

"From the time I touched that Remington 700, I was in love with it, I wanted to be a sniper. I'm gonna hunt something thats gonna hunt me back, Oh I love that."- '''Chuck Mawhinney'''- Most Confirmed kills in Marine Corps history, 103 with 216 probables.

"The sun glared off his lense of the scope I guess. I saw the glint, I shot it where the glint was... By looks of things, I was just the quickest on the trigger otherwise he would've killed me. How do I know he would've killed me? I shot right through his scope, right straight through his scope, didn't touch the sides and it didn't do his eyesight no good on that side either."- '''Carlos Hathcock'''- USMC scout sniper with 93 confired killed.

"The first guy I saw him pop up, slung the crosshairs over him, flipped the weapon onto kill, sent the round downrange... that hit its mark. It was just a pink mist."- '''Steve Reichert'''- USMC scout sniper, 1-mile killshot with Barret M82A3.

"We're surrounded... that simplifies the problem."- '''Lewis "Chesty" Puller'''- Most decorated Marine in history.

"Marines die, that's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' from Full Metal Jacket.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is the Marine and his rifle."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' from Full Metal Jacket.

"For over 200 years our Corps has done two things for this great Nation. We make Marines, and we win battles." various Marines including '''Charles C. Krulak'''

User:MarineCorps1

2011-06-22T19:51:13Z

MarineCorps1:

User:MarineCorps1

2011-06-22T19:48:48Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Anyone who doesn't understand what a "poolee" in the Marine Corps is look at discussion'''

'''Birthplace'''- South Korea, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- Airsoft, Xbox, snowboarding,

'''Future Plans'''- United States Marine Corps, just turned poolee yesterday- September 14,2010. Ship date is in Late August, looking at MEOP for primary MOS, but may switch to different MOS later in the Marines.

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, The Town

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-Alongside the M16A2, the standard Marine Corps infantry rifle, can't go wrong with it.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable hangun to go with a hard hitting round. Another one of John Browning's fantastic designs.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- A cool looking gun with a hard hitting round. If the Winchester 73 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40/700'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper rifle ever made. A version used by Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Winchester Model 70'''- The same as the Remington 700 and M40, but in 30-06. A version used by "White Feather" Carlos Hathcock.

'''Barrett M107'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of semi-auto fire, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.

== '''Favorite USMC Quotes''' ==

"From the time I touched that Remington 700, I was in love with it, I wanted to be a sniper. I'm gonna hunt something thats gonna hunt me back, Oh I love that."- '''Chuck Mawhinney'''- Most Confirmed kills in Marine Corps history, 103 with 216 probables.

"The sun glared off his lense of the scope I guess. I saw the glint, I shot it where the glint was... By looks of things, I was just the quickest on the trigger otherwise he would've killed me. How do I know he would've killed me? I shot right through his scope, right straight through his scope, didn't touch the sides and it didn't do his eyesight no good on that side either."- '''Carlos Hathcock'''- USMC scout sniper with 93 confired killed.

"The first guy I saw him pop up, slung the crosshairs over him, flipped the weapon onto kill, sent the round downrange... that hit its mark. It was just a pink mist."- '''Steve Reichert'''- USMC scout sniper, 1-mile killshot with Barret M82A3.

"We're surrounded... that simplifies the problem."- '''Lewis "Chesty" Puller'''- Most decorated Marine is its history.

"Marines die, that's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' from Full Metal Jacket.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is the Marine and his rifle."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' from Full Metal Jacket.

"For over 200 years our Corps has done two things for this great Nation. We make Marines, and we win battles." various Marines including '''Gen. Charles C. Krulak'''

User:MarineCorps1

2011-06-22T19:43:27Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Anyone who doesn't understand what a "poolee" in the Marine Corps is look at discussion'''

'''Birthplace'''- South Korea, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- Airsoft, Xbox, snowboarding,

'''Future Plans'''- United States Marine Corps, just turned poolee yesterday- September 14,2010. Ship date is in Late August, looking at MEOP for primary MOS, but may switch to different MOS later in the Marines.

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, The Town

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-Alongside the M16A2, the standard Marine Corps infantry rifle, can't go wrong with it.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable hangun to go with a hard hitting round. Another one of John Browning's fantastic designs.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- A cool looking gun with a hard hitting round. If the Winchester 73 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper system ever made. Wielded by legends like Carlos Hathcock and Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Barrett M107'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of semi-auto fire, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.

== '''Favorite USMC Quotes''' ==

"From the time I touched that Remington 700, I was in love with it, I wanted to be a sniper. I'm gonna hunt something thats gonna hunt me back, Oh I love that."- '''Chuck Mawhinney'''- Most Confirmed kills in Marine Corps history, 103 with 216 probables.

"The sun glared off his lense of the scope I guess. I saw the glint, I shot it where the glint was... By looks of things, I was just the quickest on the trigger otherwise he would've killed me. How do I know he would've killed me? I shot right through his scope, right straight through his scope, didn't touch the sides and it didn't do his eyesight no good on that side either."- '''Carlos Hathcock'''- USMC scout sniper with 93 confired killed.

"The first guy I saw him pop up, slung the crosshairs over him, flipped the weapon onto kill, sent the round downrange... that hit its mark. It was just a pink mist."- '''Steve Reichert'''- USMC scout sniper, 1-mile killshot with Barret M82A3.

"We're surrounded... that simplifies the problem."- '''Lewis "Chesty" Puller'''- Most decorated Marine is its history.

"Marines die, that's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' using his own choice of words in Full Metal Jacket, 1987

"For over 200 years our Corps has done two things for this great Nation. We make Marines, and we win battles." various Marines including '''Gen. Charles C. Krulak'''

User:MarineCorps1

2011-06-22T19:42:44Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Anyone who doesn't understand what a "poolee" in the Marine Corps is look at discussion'''

'''Birthplace'''- South Korea, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- Airsoft, Xbox, snowboarding,

'''Future Plans'''- United States Marine Corps, just turned poolee yesterday- September 14,2010. Ship date is in Late August, looking at MEOP for primary MOS, but may switch to different MOS later in the Marines.

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, The Town

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-Alongside the M16A2, the standard Marine Corps infantry rifle, can't go wrong with it.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable hangun to go with a hard hitting round. Another one of John Browning's fantastic designs.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- A cool looking gun with a hard hitting round. If the Winchester 73 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper system ever made. Wielded by legends like Carlos Hathcock and Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Barrett M107'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of semi-auto fire, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.

== '''Favorite USMC Quotes''' ==

"From the time I touched that Remington 700, I was in love with it, I wanted to be a sniper. I'm gonna hunt something thats gonna hunt me back, Oh I love that."- '''Chuck Mawhinney'''- Most Confirmed kills in Marine Corps history, 103 with 216 probables.

"The sun glared off his lense of the scope I guess. I saw the glint, I shot it where the glint was... By looks of things, I was just the quickest on the trigger otherwise he would've killed me. How do I know he would've killed me? I shot right through his scope, right straight through his scope, didn't touch the sides and it didn't do his eyesight no good on that side either."- '''Carlos Hathcock'''- USMC scout sniper with 93 confired killed.

"The first guy I saw him pop up, slung the crosshairs over him, flipped the weapon onto kill, sent the round downrange... that hit its mark. It was just a pink mist."- '''Steve Reichert'''- USMC scout sniper, 1-mile killshot with Barret M82A3.

"We're surrounded... that simplifies the problem."- '''Lewis "Chesty" Puller'''- Most decorated Marine is its history.

"Marines die, that's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' using his own choice of words in Full Metal Jacket, 1987

"For 235 years and counting our Corps has done two things for this great Nation. We make Marines, and we win battles." various Marines including '''Gen. Charles C. Krulak'''

User:MarineCorps1

2011-06-17T16:47:08Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Anyone who doesn't understand what a "poolee" in the Marine Corps is look at discussion'''

'''Birthplace'''- South Korea, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- Airsoft, Xbox, snowboarding,

'''Future Plans'''- United States Marine Corps, just turned poolee yesterday- September 14,2010. Ship date is in Late August, looking at MEOP for primary MOS, but may switch to different MOS later in the Marines.

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, The Town

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-Alongside the M16A2, the standard Marine Corps infantry rifle, can't go wrong with it.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable hangun to go with a hard hitting round. Another one of John Browning's fantastic designs.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- A cool looking gun with a hard hitting round. If the Winchester 73 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper system ever made. Wielded by legends like Carlos Hathcock and Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Barrett M107'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of semi-auto fire, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.

== '''Favorite USMC Quotes''' ==

"From the time I touched that Remington 700, I was in love with it, I wanted to be a sniper. I'm gonna hunt something thats gonna hunt me back, Oh I love that."- '''Chuck Mawhinney'''- Most Confirmed kills in Marine Corps history, 103 with 216 probables.

"The sun glared off his lense of the scope I guess. I saw the glint, I shot it where the glint was... By looks of things, I was just the quickest on the trigger otherwise he would've killed me. How do I know he would've killed me? I shot right through his scope, right straight through his scope, didn't touch the sides and it didn't do his eyesight no good on that side either."- '''Carlos Hathcock'''- USMC scout sniper with 93 confired killed.

"The first guy I saw him pop up, slung the crosshairs over him, flipped the weapon onto kill, sent the round downrange... that hit its mark. It was just a pink mist."- '''Steve Reichert'''- USMC scout sniper, 1-mile killshot with Barret M82A3.

"We're surrounded... that simplifies the problem."- '''Lewis "Chesty" Puller'''- Most decorated Marine is its history.

"Marines die, that's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' using his own choice of words in Full Metal Jacket, 1987

"For 235 years and counting our Corps has done two things for this great Nation. We make Marines, and we win battles." various Marines including '''Gen. Charles C. Krulak'''

User:MarineCorps1

2011-06-17T15:40:32Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Anyone who doesn't understand what a "poolee" in the Marine Corps is look at discussion'''

'''Birthplace'''- South Korea, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- Airsoft, Xbox, snowboarding,

'''Future Plans'''- United States Marine Corps, just turned poolee yesterday- September 14,2010. Ship date is in Late August, looking at MEOP for primary MOS, but may switch to different MOS later in the Marines.

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, The Town

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-Alongside the M16A2, the standard Marine Corps infantry rifle, can't go wrong with it.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable hangun to go with a hard hitting round. Another one of John Browning's fantastic designs.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- A cool looking gun with a hard hitting round. If the Winchester 73 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper system ever made. Wielded by legends like Carlos Hathcock and Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Barrett M107'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of semi-auto fire, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.

== '''Favorite USMC Quotes''' ==

"From the time I touched that Remington 700, I was in love with it, I wanted to be a sniper. I'm gonna hunt something thats gonna hunt me back, Oh I love that."- '''Chuck Mawhinney'''- Most Confirmed kills in Marine Corps history, 103 with 216 probables.

"The sun glared off his lense of the scope I guess. I saw the glint, I shot it where the glint was... By looks of things, I was just the quickest on the trigger otherwise he would've killed me. How do I know he would've killed me? I shot right through his scope, right straight through his scope, didn't touch the sides and it didn't do his eyesight no good on that side either."- '''Carlos Hathcock'''- USMC scout sniper with 93 confired killed.

"The first guy I saw him pop up, slung the crosshairs over him, flipped the weapon onto kill, sent the round downrange... that hit its mark. It was just a pink mist."- '''Steve Reichert'''- USMC scout sniper, 1-mile killshot with Barret M82A3.

"We're surrounded... that simplifies the problem."- '''Lewis "Chesty" Puller'''- Most decorated Marine is its history.

"Marines die, that's what we're here for. But the Marine Corps lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."- '''R. Lee Ermey''' using his own choice of words in Full Metal Jacket, 1987

User talk:MarineCorps1

2011-02-17T20:37:05Z

MarineCorps1:

Talk:Black Hawk Down

2011-01-29T03:12:29Z

MarineCorps1:

== Hoot's "M4" ==
I think the article should be amended to only mention the weapon seen on Hoot's person when he's confronted by Capt. Steele during chow time. The weapon he's holding in the screengrab of him being picked up by Wolcott and the Delta guys is the same M727 he uses in the rest of the film. --[[Special:Contributions/131.216.48.250|131.216.48.250]] 16:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:Are you sure? I'm fairly certain the carbine Sanderson handed him had the knobs signifying a detachable carry handle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::Pretty damn sure. The front corner of that carry handle in the screencaps is too thin to be from an M4's carry handle. Definitely the mark of an A2 upper's carry handle as seen on M727s--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 00:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== This probably isn't very important, but... ==
I went through and corrected the abbreviated ranks. Most of them were in Marine Corps form as opposed to Army form (ex., SSgt vs SSG). Like I said, probably not worth mentioning, but it's a little detail that was bugging me. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Weapon used by delta force ==

M4 was issued in 1994 before the battle which took place in 1993 ...the weapon seen in the movie and used by Delta operators was CAR-15

: If you'll look at the upper reciever and carry handle/rear-sight assembly, you'll see they match the [[M16 rifle series#M16A2 Rifle|M16A2]]-style of the early-model M4 carbine as shown in the picture above the screenshots. The CAR-15 (also known as the [[M16 rifle series#Colt Commando Carbine|Colt Commando]]) used the recievers and carry handle/rear sight assembly of the [[M16 rifle series#M16A1 Rifle|M16A1]]. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, the stock is wrong for the CAR15...its an M4
:How is the stock "wrong"? And no M4 has the flash suppressor of the Car-15 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Isn't it more likely that Randy Shughart was actually carrying a Springfield M21 rather than the M14?
:No, he was carrying a M14 during the actual battle and it is in his Medal of Honor citation. So its definitely a M14.
::Do you happen to have a link to his MoH citation? The book accounted that Shughart used an M21. --''[[User:Blemo|Blemo]] 02:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::To Blemo - I've got the book in my lap. Page 208, and I quote, "They used to kid Randy Shughart because he shunned the modern rifle and ammunition and carried a Vietnam era M-14, which shot a 7.62mm round without the penetrating qualities of the new green tip." Right there in black and white. --[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:Your point about the issue date of the M4 flies in the face of the logic that "IT'S A MOVIE".-protoAuthor 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
:Your point about "It's a movie" is in the face of the logic that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense. It's like watching a 1920s movie and seeing someone riding into a scene with a 1970 Mustang. Would you use the "It's a movie" logic there? What about a WWII movie and you see an F-18 shooting sidewinders at a Japanese Zero? The point of this site is so that we do point of the little details. It's like in IMDB where it points out which movie a certain actor has been in and what his role is. The same here on this side except you replace "Actor" with "pick a gun". Accuracy is the whole point. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]
:My point was, movies don't get things 100% correct.-protoAuthor 03:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

:Sometimes. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==
There's a scene in the movie (1:37:53) where Yurek, Nelson and Twombly are about to rejoin the other Rangers at the Black Hawk crash site. While Yurek is on the radio to Eversmann (Josh Hartnett's character) he grabs a mag out of a Type 47 that a dead Somali soldier is still holding. Since the Rangers are all carrying 5.56 NATO M4A2s and FN Minimis, what would be the point of grabbing a 7.62mm mag? Seems like an odd oversight considering the camera kinda focuses on him taking the mag, and they've worked quite hard to maintain accuracy and detail in the film. Any ideas? Am I missing something? [[User:DamageW|DamageW]] 06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:What the hell is a Type 47?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 15:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::i dont know, but they did that so the weapon was useless for someone to pick up and use. He probaly just ditched it later. -[[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
:::He's talking about an AK-47, but Type 47 definately isn't the right term. I always assumed he took it as a memento or something, because anyone can reload a weapon even if the magazine is removed. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
::::Actually, he grabs the mag because he's carrying an M60, and he probably figured he may be able to use the ammo later. Also, many SF types are known to, in extreme need, use the local weapons, and he may also have been preparing for that eventuality. [[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 20:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Taking AK rounds for an M60? the M60 fires 7.62x51 rounds, while the AK fires 7.62x39, plus you'd need to have the rounds already on a belt to be fired by an M60. [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::I think that what Yurek was trying to do was deny the enemy ammunition should they pick up the AK. The Bowden's book accounted that many Somalis that were killed would have others reuse the same weapon. They briefly showed that when Busch was making his last stand by the downed chopper. Also, he may have kept it as a souvenir. It's not everyday you'll find a loaded AK magazine that had the potential to kill you. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Actually, I was suggesting that he was picking up the mag out of fear that at some point, he would need to resort to using an Ak, or that he would have the ammo if someone else had already been forced to pick up a local weapon. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
----
Also, What the motherfuck is an M4A2?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:The motherfuck that is an M4A2 is basically an M4 produced by another company such as Bushmaster Firearms. It's just another "M4gery". Also, Google is everyone's friend and it wouldn't hurt to ask it. ;) --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::I'd like to think he kept it as a souvenir, although the actual reason was whenever a member of militia was killed they were extremely dedicated to retrieving the body and the firearm, so removing the magazine would have made it useless, although picking up the the weapon and smashing it to pieces would probably have worked better[[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 14:04, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Smashing the weapon would have been noisy and they were trying to be quiet at that point IIRC.
::::fair point but i was thinking more like removing the driver spring, and its probably just that it would have made one less magazine for the somalians to use
I think the reason is that the enemy has 30 rounds less against the rangers. It's like in 'Saving Privat Ryan': the rescue team left Steamboat Willy alive; so he could kill Captain Miller. A wise decision of Yurek, I think

I noticed another mistake. During the scene where Gordon and Shughart are holding off the Somalis at the crash sight there's a quick moment when Shughart is seen using an M16A2 rifle instead of his M14 rifle. And in the very next scene and all following he's back to using the M14. [[User:Ballistics_Expert2|Ballistics_Expert2]]

::::: I believe it was because he was firing his M14 until it ran out of ammo, and then using a helo crew member's M16 before retreating to reload both rifles.:::

:::- Yes, that's the case. Gordon is also seen dropping his CAR-15 when it's empty and using his 1911. Later, when Shughart is killed, he fires the M14 'til it's empty, then switching to his 1911, and when that is empty, using an MP5 from the chopper. Hell, they're being overwhelmed, and it is quicker to pick up and and shoot another weapon that is ready than reload the present one. They were pretty much using whatever they could trying their damndest to fend an army off, I would think that was obvious. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mike Durant's Book ==
In Mike Durant's book "The Night Stalkers" he quoted a few weapons he was using in the real life in the "Mog". I remember him talking about his MP5 not to metion he called it a "german piece of crap" for jamming. He also said Randy's Commando was on burst-fire 3 shots 1 kill. And the mini guns the rescue team could have been using can not run on the Black Hawk's batteries only on pure engine generating turbine power.
:To be fair, Mike Durant also seems to know very little about firearms. Also note that his memory may be jarred by the fact that, you know, he had just suffered a fucking HELICOPTER CRASH. --[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, helicopter pilots have to be trained with certain firearms in order to survive in the event of a crash. Durant at least knew how to clear the jam on the 9mm submachine gun. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::160th SOAR aircrews, being a part of ASOC are trained not only in their specific role in the aircraft, but also on how to continue with the mission at hand along with their "customers." Hence, they're well-familiarized with fighting with the weapons carried on board with them (in the case of what was aboard Super-64, MP5s for the pilots, M16s for the crewchiefs and M9s carried by all of them).
:::What baffles me is how his MP5 kept jamming (in the book atleast). I know they were in the desert, but that MP5 had been stashed inside a helicopter, so it wouldn't be all dusty and full of sand. Maybe it is a German piece of crap then [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]] 15:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps it was dusty inside of the chopper. Flying around in a helicopter with the rotor wash sending dust, smoke, and sand into and around the cabin won't help the MP5 from jamming, either. Pilots don't normally clean their emergency back-up weapons as they're supposed to. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 16:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Helicopter crews don't regularly use their weapons and so may not be as maintenance-minded as a Ranger or Delta. That could be one reason it kept jamming. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I did read Mike Durant's book and would like to point out he referred to Randy's weapon as a High-Tech rifle. as we all no, it was a vietnam era M14. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 21:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

:I just stared reading Durant's "In the Company of Heroes" before he called it a "German piece of crap", he said the MP5 had shot fine at the range but he probably had neglected to clean it. It was after Shughart gave him Gordon's CAR-15 which didn't jam and was far more effective despite only having half a mag left he thought of the MP5 as a piece of shit. He also had an M9 that he never drew, which he said probably saved his life since he wasn't seen as a threat. While Shughart's M14 isn't really a "High-Tech rifle" it was a lot better than a bolt-gun in the situation he was in. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 18:52, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Hand ==
Does anyone know why that Ranger took the dead Delta Force member's hand?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:Probably to send it home with the rest of the body-[[Special:Contributions/76.31.5.208|76.31.5.208]] 16:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC) (S&Wshooter)
::I figured that too. But it's kind of creepy going around carrying an dead man's severed hand in your pocket. What about the smell? However, if i died in combat, i would like if my body went home and i had an funeral.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
:::In the book, Othic took the hand that he had found and put it in his pocket to return it to the Delta operator that was blown in half. He had placed it with his body after he died, but strangely the movie did not show that, and made it seem like Othic kept the hand. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 02:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It wasn't the Delta Operator's hand. The shots of MSGTTim "Griz" Martin after being hit by the RPG show his hand still intact. More likely it belonged to one of the other soldiers aboard the truck that got hit. MSGT Martin was shipped off to Germany IIRC where he succumbed to his wounds shortly after.
:I bet it started to smell after a while-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 01:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==Flashlight Attachment Help==
[[Image:BHD Commando Flashlight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|What is this type of flashlight attachment called?]]
''What is the technical term for the flashlight to be attached to the '''barrel''' of the AR-15 series? It seems to be used only when there are handguards in place of the RIS railing. Sergeants Hoot, Busch, Sanderson, Gordon, and a couple other Deltas used the same attachment.'' --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:Before R.I.S. was introduced, I used to see a whole bunch of different flashlight attachments just like that one in the Blue Press. Some of them were even advertised as able to work on multiple types of weapons in the same caliber (i.e. AR-15s and Mini-14s). There were many different brands, so we can't be 100% sure what this movie's armorers used. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Oh, thanks, but I didn't mean what brands the movie used. I meant, what the generic term for these types of attachments that connect the flashlight to the barrel are called. I'm thinking about purchasing one for an AR-15 platform without the RIS. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 03:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

:::It's a barrel mount for a flashlight, that specific one was made by Surefire.

:::: Like the above said, It's a barrel mounted flashlight, made by Surefire. I actually managed to buy one of them that had been used in the Operation Gothic Serpent theater. These are still a good alternative to adding the weight of a rail to your firearm. I believe the flashlight is a model 600 or something similar.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 05:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

==M4 in 1994?==
Question about the M4 not being period correct. If the events took place in September 1993 and the M4 went into service sometime in 1994, isn't possible that members of an elite group like Delta Force could have gotten their hands on a couple?

:I'd say it's plausible that Delta could have been field-testing a few XM4s that day. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

::In today's case, some special units are using the HK416 in the field. It likely that this was also the case with the M4 in 1993. That, or the armorers to the film got lazy and decided to throw in a few M4's for the M4 fans. Unlikely, but movies will do this. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well it isn't completely out there that at the time US special forces can get their hands on some experimental weapons and field test them. But I think for this movie, they just ran out of Car-15s to give to the Delta actors.[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)he

The m4 was used in service since 1997 it is not possible for an m4 to be used.the delta operators may have used a xm117e2.

:Just because it didn't go into service until 94 or 97 doesn't mean D-boys didn't have a hold of them. There could well have been a prototype (or many test models) sent out with D-boys to see if the rifle performed to what was expected.
More than likely just an error. The simplest explanation is usually correct (Occam's Razor) BA
More likely than not the M4 in the film is simply an anachronism due to a shortage of Colt Commandos. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

'''Don't forget about the 10th Mountain and the U.N Soldiers. Whoever created this page missed them completly and they had alot of firearms. Whats omore is i can't for some reason edit the page. the autheor needs to fix this right away'''

::I have explained elsewhere that the Colt Model 727 carbine, which LOOKS just like an early M4 (but has a semi/full-auto trigger group, rather than semi/burst as on the Model 777, AKA the earliest M4) was introduced in the late-1980s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

:::The 727 has a fixed carry handle, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::So did the Model 777, which is the first gun that was ever adopted by the U.S. military as the "M4". The 727 and 777 are the same gun aside from their trigger groups. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::I'm fairly certain this convo is referring to the later M4 with detachable carry handle. That's why I mentioned the 727 having an A2 upper. ;) [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:44, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

All gear that is used in the US Army has to be tested. Part of this testing cycle is to give it to SF, Rangers, Delta, etc. to field it before it is approved for widespread use. Considering the length of trials and the endless bureaucracy in the DoD, it is completely plausible that these guys had the first generation of the M4 in TFR/OGS. I saw a SCAR in the wild on my latest deployment to Afghanistan last year. These guys are like the pro athletes of the military world. All sorts of manufacturers will just give them gear to use in order to try to get them to reccomend it... Optics, armor, boots, gun accessories, etc...

== Shughart and the M14/M16 switch ==
Does anyone know if Shughart briefly using an M16A2 while defending Durant's crash site is intentional or a mistake? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]

:intentional, in the book moments beforehand hed asked durant where the spare weapons were kept aboard the black hawk, and for some reason this scene was omitted from the film. Shughart had ran dry with his 7.62 M14 and so couldnt have used the 5.56 from the M16 mags. :)

::Yeah, Shughart asked if there were any spare rifles or radios ''after'' Gordon got shot. This caused Durant to realize that Gordon may have been hit and that they were stranded on their own. However, the book didn't mention Shughart ''actually'' using the M16. --''[[User:Blemo|'''B''''''le''''''mo''']] [[Image:Progress Wheel.gif]] [[user talk:Blemo|'''TALK''']] • [[Special:Contributions/Blemo|'''CONTRIBUTIONS''']] • [[Special:Emailuser/Blemo|'''EMAIL''']] • '''MESSAGE''''' 15:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, but i dont get why brad hallings didnt join them? he could have done so much more on the ground than on the black hawk, especially since he had his leg blown off up there aswell. oh and btw, im a newcomer, how do i tag comments with my name at the end?
:By putting four ~ at the end of every message.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks :) [[User:Owen642|Owen642]] 00:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reason why Halling didn’t insert with the Shughart and Gordon was because by the time the team was given the go-ahead to insert, Halling had taken control of the minigun due to a member of the helicopter crew being injured.--[[User:Mauser|Mauser]] 23:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i dont know if he was actually using it, but in the movie version i think were supposed to think he took from a crew chief (since they carried an m16a2

the guy must have to taken the m16 from one of the blackhawk passengers and the blackhawks do carry spare weapons on board. (actual assassin)

Im sure most people so dedicated to this site probably noticed this but ill say it anyway. (**SPOILER**) ok right as MSsgt. Gordon is shot in the head and Shughart checks him it flashes over to Durant, and sure enough if you look you'll notice Gordon's CAR-15 on his lap. moments later Shughart runs over to Durant hands him the CAR-15 and says "Gordy's gone man, i'll be outside...Goodluck." just pointing it out. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Change made to 1911 article/picture ==

Not sure where IMDB gets its info from, but Kim Coates plays Master Sergeant Tim 'Griz' Martin, the unfortunate Delta operator who was blown in half by the RPG when the convoy is attempting to extract. He is not the Delta operator seen using the 1911 at the firing range and the picture and article have been edited for correction.

--[[User:NMOne|NMOne]] 19:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

All the Delta Force members' names were changed for the film except for Busch, Shughart and Gordon. "Wex" is the name credited to Kim Coates in the end credits. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 20:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Anybody else notice that when Wex is firing his 1911, he's walking down the range towards the targets while people behind him are still firing? seems kind of unsafe.--[[User:Pølaris|Pølaris]] 19:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

-- In a deleted scene, it is shown that Eversman calls cease fire on the range in response to him moving into the line of fire, and just responding to such percieved recklessness by simply muttering "Fuckin' Delta..."--[[Special:Contributions/24.253.69.199|24.253.69.199]] 22:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

on topic of 1911s does anyone know what kind of 1911s they really used? for example i find it hard to believe they would be using normal 1911s when the MK.IVs were out

-- They were regular M1911A1s as it is cheaper for the armorers to use GI style pistols instead of procuring brand new weapons or paying a pistolsmith for costly modifications on movie props that could later be used in other films. In reality, Delta operators would take their issued 1911s (which were often relics found in the supply system) and have them done by some of the best pistolsmiths they could find to do the work (or do the work in-house when at all possible). Some of that talent rubbed off on the operators themselves; Larry Vickers, a former Delta Operator himself, is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths in the business and is one of the go-to guys for Delta's custom 1911s.

== Dillon/GE Miniguns ==

The Miniguns during the actual event would have been GE M134s. The Miniguns in the movie were Dillon Aero Miniguns, but not quite M134Ds. They had some of the DA upgrades on them though. That's from the commentary and some interviews online with Dillon Aero. I remember it being mentioned in one of the special features that the Dillon guns in the movie could have been fired off the Black Hawk's batteries, but the older GE ones in the real incident would have been unuseable at the crash site.

== 870 Remington Shotgun. ==

Not sure if this is worth noting, but in real life, the operator on who SGT. Sanderson was based, Paul Howe, had his shotgun rigged under his CAR-15 in a "Masterkey" configuration. Also, it can be seen being used in the directors cut to breach a door.

== Rescue Heli Star 41 ==

The AH-6, that inbounds to Wolcott's crash site (Star 41), has miniguns and rocket pods. The helicopter that is finally landing at the chrashed Black Hawk hasn't any weapons onboard, so probably a MH-6.
:Continuity error most likely. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Flashlights ==
I watched the movie, and I was wondering, if Delta force had flashlights on their M733 and M727's, why didnt they use them? I could see that they would want to keep stealth in night, but if they're firing at the enemy, the muzzle flash would show their position anyway.

:Actors probably forgot or were never told [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Flashlights are not going to give you enough illumination to shoot at targets across buildings. They're better for room clearing. Besides you wouldn't use them if you have NOD's. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 02:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)v
:Not to mention a flashlight beam in that environment would scream, "here I am, shoot me!" [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

does anyone no how they would have mounted the tac-lights back then? like now-a-days we have RIS/Picatanny rails. then they would mod it to the barrel. how would they do that if they have a shotgun under the barrel? Larry Vickers mentioned that he hose clamped his to the bottom of the barrel. but he didnt have a masterkey. any suggestions? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 15:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hose clamped it to the side or top of the barrel? -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 20:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Larry had his hose-clamped to the bottom. he used his in Panama (acid Gambit) i was surprised at how resoursefull they were. he also took some cardboard and put them inbetween Mags for a quick reload. and the aimpoint on his gun looked ancient. [[Special:Contributions/71.194.219.9|71.194.219.9]] 22:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==
Anyone notice that the picture of Sanderson firing his M727 during the Mogadishu Mile? It looks like the chamber is clear and the bolt is open. That means the weapon is empty, but in the movie you still hear two more shots before he switches to his sidearm. Is it just the angle, or is it just an error in continuity?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't be a continuity error, a continuity error would be when one seen a guy has a 1911 and the next he suddenly has a Beretta M9. I can't say for I don't remember this. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 16:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

== Actor in the Specials ==

Do we see this actor in Delta costume in the movie often? Because all the behind the scenes shot is this guy and I don't recognize him. Is he an extra that is like way in the back of the other guys? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

What guy?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This guy
[[Image:BHD2Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor aims Durant's MP5 in movie armory. Note the other weapons behind him.]]
[[Image:BHD1Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An actor in Delta clothes shows M16A2 in the movie armory.]]
[[Image:DHD3Arm.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta actor shows vehicle-mounted M60s.]]

That's Jeremy Piven, nowadays best known for playing Ari Gold on HBO's Entourage. Wikipedia says he played CFO Clifton Wolcott.

:I do not think it Piven. In the film he plays a pilot role and his hair is black.
http://files.haiguinet.com/flashupload/UploadedFiles/1252005569_159Jeremy_Piven.jpg
http://emsworth.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jeremy-piven-in-black-hawk-down-2.jpg
When I put the photos on the page, before to name him "delta actor", I looked for the name of this guy in the entire cast. Unsuccessfully. I think it is a stunt.--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Seriously ==
[[Image:BHD 015.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Delta Force SFC Sanderson ([[William Fichtner]]) fires his M1911A1 during the "Mogadishu Mile". It seems unlikely a well trained operator would wear his flight gloves like shown.]]
Seriously? A well trained operator wouldnt wear his gloves like that? This mall-ninja crap needs to stop. Theres no special way to wear flight gloves, you put the goddamn things on and wear 'em. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
:Actually, special forces operators of that era often wore flight gloves, just like that. Fun fact. Flight gloves are made for use by individuals who fly planes; they need a glove that will keep their hands a bit warmer than they normally will be, but will still allow them to feel the tactile sensation of the various knobs and switches and provide the nimbleness that the human hand gives us. The solution? Flight gloves. They are the precursors to the gloves we see in use by military units now; the Oakley tacticool gloves (fun fact: Oakley started out making motorcycle gloves) or the Blackhawk gloves and what have you. I'm really loving these mall-ninjas popping up thinking they know about shooting or special forces work. I can think of a few damn good reasons off the top of my hand to never, ever take gloves off in a combat situation, personally, and a well-fitted pair of gloves will be just like a second skin.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

:- I believe the comment means it isn't likely he'd wear them while shooting - Full-finger gloves can be obstructive/restrictive when it comes to finger movement, which isn't exactly a good thing when you need to make accurate shots. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:52, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

::Flight gloves, as I just fucking explained, are not restrictive or obstructive in the slightest.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

:::- ''Uh, I had replied below I didn't know about these gloves specifically, which you seem to have failed to notice. Just as you also seem to have failed to notice that all these comments you posted this slightly irritable and unnecessary response in-between were all posted '''days ago'''. It might help if you thoroughly read the comments and check the dates next time.'' [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Honestly how would anyone here really know....are any of you "operators"?? -and if you say yes I'm going to say that your lying.....I'm going to delete that quip about his gloves in the caption, it's not hard to shoot with gloves on, especially flyers gloves. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Thank you, it just bugs the living shit outta me when armchair commandos think they know operator/tactical/omfgdelta stuff. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]
::- Well, I'm indeed no 'operator', but I don't have to be one to know that it is hard to shoot with some gloves, especially if you're making distance shots. But I'm not familiar with flight gloves specifically, so I guess they're no trouble, I don't know. In any case, it just seemed to me the context of Winn's comment was that he was saying that it was stating merely that the gloves need to be worn some special way (and Winns right - they're gloves, what special way is there), but that's the problem with text sometimes. Anyway, not trying to make a valid claim, just an opinion. I can't speak for whoever made original remark, though. Either way, I never gave that comment much thought myself. I'm personally more peeved about quips on peoples (actors) stances myself. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Flight gloves are a very thin layer of Nomex with a Clarino palm and finger overlaid. These are very light, wick sweat, and give you tactile feeling and the ability to perform tasks as though you were bare handed. They are maybe a few mm thick on the palms, and do not affect in any way your shooting ability or accuracy, even whilst firing an M249, which is notorious for running away due to gloves getting stuck and holding the trigger back.

==Discussion about the bullets, or something==
- Something I always found a bit funny about that particular scene - Sanderson misses the two targets with his 727 carbine (firing several shots), yet hits them both with one .45 shot each (or actually, maybe one was hit twice, and the other once). Heh. But of course, I'd imagine some people can actually be better with a handgun than a rifle in some instances. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

I haven't seen the movie in a few months, but if I remember correctly he had actually hit the targets with his rifle, but the rounds went completely through and didn't kill the targets. So he used his .45 to actually kill them. There is a part in the book where it is mentioned that they had been issued "green tip" rounds (armor piercing/ anti personnel 5.56 ammo with a steel penetrator tip), and another part that talked about the rounds lack of effectiveness against the drugged up Somalis. One guy unloaded a belt from his SAW into a couple Somalis and they kept coming at them b/c the rounds just went right through and didn't do any major (fight stopping) damage. Another reason why they talk about how Randy Shughart was a smart SOB for using a 7.62 M14 and normal ammo. As for the gloves... Flight gloves have been used for years by ground personnel because they are thin enough to still be able to feel things with your hands, but they are still something to protect against scrapes, burns, dirt, etc.. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 22:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No argument here Ranger. but i would also like to point out in the book Mark also mentions that they(the rangers) fired SAW and believe it or not M-60 ammunition, that would happen to be the same M-60 that carries the heavy hitting 7.62mm however that guy was probably high as a kite anyways so idont think it would have made much of a difference. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 23:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

:- That's all fascinating, except in the movie, Sanderson (Fichtner) just ''missed them''. I was remarking on how the movie showed him ''missing'' two almost perfectly still targets with the 727 carbine and hitting them with the .45. That's all. Interesting tidbit about the ammo though. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]]

Well, the point about RS and his M14 was what the book said. It was not so much the size of the bullet, but whether or not it was AP ammo (super hard bullet at very high velocity). An AP round from a 5.56 to the heart will create a very small hole, and if the person who is shot is high on drugs then they are probably not even going to notice it until they finally keel over (which will probably take a while). At the same time a FMJ from a .45 while it still probably wont blow the heart to kingdom come, will make a large enough hole that it will cause bleed out to happen faster (hopefully fast enough). Then again at close range any 5.56 and even 7.62 ammo isnt going to be as effective as a .45 round b/c of the rifle round's high velocities compared to the .45s low velocity. When faced with an unarmored threat below about 50 yards, a pistol round (be it .45, 9mm, .40, etc) is going to be much more effective (unless it is something like the 5.7 round, which has no immediate stopping power unless a CNS or head shot is attained). Long post short: will a 5.56 or 7.62 to the heart kill someone at close range? Most likely yes. Will it do it quick enough to stop an attacker from killing/ wounding you or your allies? Maybe. If he missed them, then it was probably just to add suspense or a "weapon switch to show he is an elite operator" shot to the scene.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

um this is extremely off topic like usual but id just like for someone to explain the purpose of using a 5.56 by a Counter-Terrorist Unit. tell me if im missing something but when their clearing rooms A.) the round wont immediatly kill a combatant when you wont him to die. and 2. say its an assault on multiple rooms at once and boom you miss your target (or it just passes through him) and boom goes through the wall like the round is meant to and bam! clips a friendly or even worse a hostage. explain the logic to me please. [[User:Dirtdiver 6421|Dirtdiver 6421]] 00:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, logistics. If they are expecting to be 100% in a building they will use SMGs, Shotguns, etc. But if they have an expectation that being in a building is only going to be 10-25% of the mission they will usually carry rifles. The main problem with the mission portrayed in BHD is that the brass expected to have to combat (lightly) armored vehicles, so they issued AP rounds. Now days the AP rounds are for some odd reason pretty much 90% of what the US Army issues. Army Special Forces (Green Berets), Delta, etc. use a type of semi-expanding bullet, as does the Marine Corps.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

There are other reasons as well. It's a fairly accurate rifle round, which, when in situations that will require shooting further than 50-100 meters, is necessary to have. It's a relatively light round, and most people can easily carry a few mags of 5.56 without feeling it too much. As far as stopping power goes, in barrels that don't over-stabilize the round, the 5.56 will fragment (not the AP round, obviously), slowing itself in the body and thus penetration becomes less of an issue. When you consider that most SF types use expanding bullets, this nearly negates the issue. There's a reason that most countries use the 5.56 round or something similar.
As far as the issuance of AP rounds in a war that clearly didn't need them, I've heard two sides of the argument. I've heard that, as Ranger01 said, they were issued because they thought they may run into light vehicles (although they brought along plenty of LAWs to deal with that). But what I heard from an individual who was there was that the men believed it was because Clinton believed that rounds that expanded would A) not make good headlines and B) violate some convention (I believe the Geneva convention).--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 00:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the Geneva convention forbids hollow point ammo in the military. The Police of the nation is a different subject. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:You're thinking of the Hague Convention of 1899, not the Geneva Convention.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was the GC or HC and didn't really care to look it up at the moment.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Hague banned all use of ammunition that easily expands or flattens in a human target. I have no exact idea of what round is being used or how it gets around the HC, I only know that when asked about the effectiveness of 5.56 ammunition, a few SF guys made mention that have been issued a new "expanding" round. I have also heard that Marines are now being issued an expanding type round. It may be that since we are not actually fighting an official "military force" that the HC and GC do not apply. Also you must remember that the use of .50 cal against personnel is banned too, how often do you think that is observed?-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 11:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not saying we follow either conventions to a T in every war, I'm just echoing what I heard from a man who was there. A lot of people who lived through the battle of mogadishu came away with the feeling that Bill Clinton cared more about how headlines would look than he did about the safety of our soldiers. As for HC and GC not applying, I agree that they really don't apply to A) organizations that are not militaries but instead ragtag terrorist groups and B) hail from nations that didn't exist at the time of the convention and never signed a similar document. It's the same argument that was applied for the waterboarding of captured terrorists; apparently, they apply some standards to those who didn't sign, but not others. Personally, I think that terrorist groups and undeveloped countries where they never signed the conventions shouldn't get the protection of them, and we really need to invest into expanding ammunitions for everyone; AP doesn't make sense for unarmored targets.--[[User:Asmkillr323|Asmkillr323]] 12:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The question about observing the laws was rhetorical in nature. But I agree wholeheartedly about what you say pertaining to the HC and GC applying to people who did not sign it. Its like bringing pirates and terrorists into the US to give them civilian trials. People say they should get military trials... When according to the GC (that people are so happy to apply to the situation) pirates and terrorists are not able to receive either. We selectively apply laws to make us look good internationally, when in reality it costs money, and even worse lives of US citizens and military forces.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 12:36, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances full metal jacket .556 is an ideal round. When fighting a traditional battle, against an enemy that follows the rules of war, it is far better to wound the enemy than kill him. Gunner313

We haven't fought a conventional war that lasted any period of time since Korea (and you could even say WWII, since Korea was less than conventional). Also with the way the enemy works now, any intel we can gather from enemy combatants will likely be useless (if it ever was useful) by the time it gets to the guys on the ground. Also as stated by me, and others before, under 50 yards and especially against an enemy that is drugged up a FMJ is likely not going to down an enemy either by wounding him or killing him. Of course shot placement comes into play heavily, but as cases have proven a COM shot is likely not to drop a determined attacker immediately. Head and extremity shots are also very hard to make, with FMJ pretty much the only way to immediately and most important reliably drop an attacker at close range is a pelvic shot. But now days in Afghanistan most fighting is taking place on the far end if not beyond the 5.56's effective range. Also Gunner313 it is 5.56, not .556, .556mm is a really damn small projectile haha. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 14:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

One could say that the First Gulf War was conventional. we were fighting an organized military(Iraq), i still think they were a bunch of crazy towel heads hellbent on destroying the western world.[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Why is it better to wound them? -SasquatchJim.

Because then you can detain them get information from them.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 19:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. I apologize; I thought he meant that wounding them was more humane, or something. Although, dead people can't keep shooting at you; wounded ones can. -SasquatchJim

It is better to wound them because it requires the enemy to care for their wounded, they have to be treated, they have to be transported, it is demoralizing to the others to hear someone in terrible pain, so for a short time a wounding shot, takes two people out of the fight. Also the more medical supplies that have to be shipped to the front for the wounded, means less of other items such as ammo, food, fuel, misc... Gunner313

Makes sense to me. Thanks. -SJ

Well in my opinion, I still think it's better to kill the enemy rather than just wound them, that way they don't get patched up and come back later to kill you.

agreed. especially in Somalia when if their not dead their gunna come back and shoot you in the back. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:- Bah, can't believe my one off-hand comment spawned all this. Heh. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing to add other than that this was really informative. This site is one of the best blind discoveries I've made on the internet. --[[User:John Ryder|John Ryder]] 01:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Never Forget==
Sorry to post as anon, but I dont have an account but frequent the site. Just wanted to point out that today is the 17th anniversary of the US intervention in Somalia.

:- Actually the anniversary is for the mission and subsequent battle portrayed in the film. The 'intervention' began as Operation Provide Relief, which started in December 1992. Still, good to point it out. EDIT - I actually just realized that not only is it the anniversary, but the actual day is correct (That is, Oct. 3 was a Sunday, same day as the Oct. 3 in the battle). Again, pretty cool I guess. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The entire day yesterday i thought about it. i decided to watch the movie being Sunday Oct-3. i also found it fit to say a pray for the brave soldiers who lost their lives fighting to help the ungratefull bastards. [[Special:Contributions/24.15.103.231|24.15.103.231]] 22:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

==Interesting Uniform Note==

Just wanted to point out an interesting observation about the uniforms worn by the Rangers; this is one of the few films to accurately depict the transition from the 6-color "chocolate chip" camouflage made famous during Desert Storm to the 3-color "coffee stain" pattern that was used throughout the rest of the 1990's and during the invasion and early occupation of Iraq in the early 2000's. During the transition between these two camouflage patterns, it was common to see a combination of the two patterns on the same soldier; they would wear the new DCU's with the old 6-color on their PASGT helmets. Practically all the Rangers in the film have this combination.

[[Image:BHDMinimi-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|[[Tom Hardy]] wielding an FN Minimi as Spc. Twombly, giving us a good look at his 3-color DCU uniform and 6-color helmet cover]]

[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mo'alim (Razaaq Adoti) gun ==

What gun have Mo'alim in his shoulder? He don't remove it from the shoulder at any time, but there are two scenes where you can see:

1 When prevents the killing of Duran:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/

2 When the cannon is firing in the area of the first downed helicopter:
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/

are you referring to the AK-74u? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:37, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I think he is referring to the pistol in his shoulder holster under his left arm. Can't make it out though, will have to have a look on my Bluray version when I get a minute, but don't think it can be seen well enough to make it out. --[[User:Commando552|Commando552]] 10:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

i wasn't aware he had a shoulder holster? can you upload a photo?[[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it is a revolver or a pistol:
http://img839.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun1.png/
http://img401.imageshack.us/i/moalimhandgun2.png/
i couldnt see anything on the 2nd picture but the first was definetly a revolver. my guess, and im not expert with revolvers would be a .38 or 357 perhaps a S&W? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 23:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== Doc Schmid ==
In the movie PFC Kurt "Doc" Schmid is shown as a Ranger medic but in reality he was Delta Force. It's curious why they chose to depict him as a Ranger and not a Delta operator in the movie.

Maybe they forgot [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is somewhat unrelated, but I found it really funny that Schmid is played by the same actor who later played [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185836/ Adam]. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

==tapeing==
i was just watching this , and i noticed that a majority of the rangers taped the ends of the butt stocks on their rifles . Why is that?-[[User:Simmons 8492|Simmons 8492]]

== Nelson's M60 ==

Is is correct to have Nelson carrying the Vietnam Era M60 over the M60E3 or E4? I'm not sure when the E3 or E4 came out.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 03:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

User talk:MarineCorps1

2011-01-29T03:05:03Z

MarineCorps1:

User talk:MarineCorps1

2011-01-27T17:13:10Z

MarineCorps1:

User:MarineCorps1

2011-01-17T19:08:08Z

MarineCorps1:

User talk:MarineCorps1

2011-01-16T04:55:08Z

MarineCorps1:

User talk:MarineCorps1

2011-01-16T04:51:56Z

MarineCorps1:

User talk:MarineCorps1

2011-01-16T04:50:14Z

MarineCorps1: New page: == Poolie == A poolie is a future Marine waiting with a ship date to go to the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in Paris Island or San Diego. The Marine Corps offers a program called the DEP o...

User:MarineCorps1

2011-01-16T04:30:32Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Anyone who doesn't understand what a "poolee in the Marine Corps is look at discussion'''

'''Birthplace'''- South Korea, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- Airsoft, Xbox, snowboarding

'''Future Plans'''- United States Marine Corps, just turned poolee yesterday- September 14,2010. Ship date is in Late August, looking at MEOP for primary MOS, but may switch to different MOS later in the Marines.

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-Alongside the M16A2, the standard Marine Corps infantry rifle, can't go wrong with it.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable hangun to go with a hard hitting round. Another one of John Browning's fantastic designs.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- A cool looking gun with a hard hitting round. If the Winchester 1887 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper system ever made. Wielded by legends like Carlos Hathcock and Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Barrett M107'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of semi-auto fire, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.

User talk:SargeOverkill

2011-01-16T04:21:46Z

MarineCorps1:

== Adding guns to Burn Notice ==

When adding new weapons to [[Burn Notice]], please follow the process that's been established on the page: please state what season and what episode the weapon was seen in (you can look up on IMDB if you need to find the season and episode name" and hyperlink the weapon name. Take a look below for the proper format:

==SCAR-L==
An [[FN SCAR-L]] is used by one of Matt Reece's thugs in Season 4's "Guilty as Charged". It's used when when Michael beats down the thug, causing the weapon to go flying in the air.
[[Image:FN SCAR-L (Standard).jpg|thumb|400px|none|Third-Generation FN SCAR-L, 5.56x45mm]]

If you don't have a screenshot of the show, that's okay as long as you put the stock shot of the weapon (which you did). Thanks for your cooperation. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:26, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem
BTW the episode it is in is "Center of the Storm"

==thanks!==

I appreciate the help! The page was in need of improvement, and I'm glad you stepped up to the plate. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 23:50, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem. I had been browsing around for a while and got annoyed that ever AW was listed as an L96. I was glad to help though.

== Best of Luck ==

Although I will be joining the Marine Corps, I wish you best of luck in basic training and beyond in the Army and I hope you do get the MOS you want. In the endall members of the military fight for the same reason, the freedom of the US.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 04:21, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Top Shot

2011-01-16T04:17:58Z

MarineCorps1:

Can any body tell me why the guy said that the Remington 700 is used by the Marines. cause i'm pretty sure its not. [[SargeOverkill]]

No your right, the Marines use the M40 for their standard bolt action rifle. The newest they use is the M40A5.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 22:58, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the M40 based on the 700 action? That may have been what they meant.

No ur correct, the M40 and 700 are based on the same action, but the M40 is just the Military version of the 700. Look up the Remington 700 and M40 on the website.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 22:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Gotcha. i think it goes like this: the M40 series is based of the M24 which is based on the Rem. 700. something confusing, right?[[User:SargeOverkill]]

No Your correct, all the same basic rifle, just used by different people whether military, police, or civilian.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 11:19, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Added some screens. More to come tomorrow. --[[User:VRazer2|VRazer2]] 21:19, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Sweet! I love this show [[User:SargeOverkill]]

Why didn't Frank have more experience with the Beretta, considering his police background? Was he just a bad shooter?

I don't blame him, I hate Berettas. He must have been out of his game. -[[User:SargeOverkill]]

Added a lot of new screens. Need someone to positively ID the 1887, revolvers and the lever action rifles. There's probably not going to be a lot of firearms in the longbow episode, so I'm probably not going to add any more screens for some time. --[[User:VRazer2|VRazer2]] 19:34, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==Comments==
Forgot: Tell me if you want me to stop with the personal opinions/comments in the image descriptions, or if you want me to continue. I don't see them on a lot of pages, but I really think they make it more exciting than just simple facts. --[[User:VRazer2|VRazer2]] 19:37, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::The comments are okay, there use to be a problem with users bashing actors gun handling skills, but the people on the show are professionals. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 19:54, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

==Zastava CZ-99/Tressitu TZ-99==
[[Image:Top.Shot-Tressitu.TZ-99.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Tressitu TZ-99]]
This was taken from a web video of Jim's introduction to the pistol. Would it not be more ideal to call it by it's real name? --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 13:40, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Could you add your picture to the page and rename it?
--[[User:VRazer2|VRazer2]] 20:13, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

==Beretta 92F vs. 92FS==
The shininess of the grips is not a good way to tell whether or not the guns are 92Fs or FSs in this case, since most of the pictures we have aren't the highest quality, and all kinds of lighting changes can be done in post production. Grips can be changed easily too. I do know at least one of the pistols was a 92F because the rear sight did not have the two dots on it as seen on the 92FS, it had the single white line seen on the 92F and it' predecessors. They might have used several pistols, but that one was a 92F. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 22:19, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== M14 ==

The M14 rifle never was designed to be fully automatic.
It was a semi-automatic rifle used in Vietnam.
They were also used as semi-auto sniper rifles as well.

Actually, it could fire full-auto.

The M1A could fire fully automatic. Technically the M14 is the civilian version and cannot fire fully automatic. So you're both kinda wrong. --[[User:Subiefan98|Subiefan98]] 00:54, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Isn't it the other way around? --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:32, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it is. The M1A is the current production, semi-automatic civilian version of the M14, manufactured by Springfield Armory. The original M14s were full on, full automatic assault rifles. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 04:48, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

==Season 2==
I believe the history channel is looking for shooters for season 2. Anyone here planning on trying out?
:I know that the auditions due date is up but just wondering if anybody here might do it in the future. Would be pretty cool. I have almost no experience compared to what the contestants had, even Kelly who is a few years older than me has a hell lot more experience so I doubt I would be able to try at the rate I'm visiting the range which is almost none. --[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:50, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

==Congrats==
Congrats to Iain for winning Top Shot. Was rooting for JJ though.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 02:10, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

: I was really suprised JJ didn't land a single shot during the 21-esque challenge. I was hoping he'd win too. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 03:31, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't hoping for anyone to win up to the second to last challenge, but I thought for sure JJ would win it all. He shot himself in the foot when he decided his challenge and couldn't even complete it. After that the other two exploited the hell out of his weaknesses and thus a world ranked shooter got knocked off. After that I was pulling for Iain since is he lives here in Oregon and he makes Captain Price look like, well, a fictional character. Glad to see it go to him.--[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 05:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

:Oregon yes, but according to wikipedia he lives near Portland. As a Salem resident I question whether that truly counts ;) -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

He still lives here, in the state of Oregon, so my statement is valid. Hope you had fun splitting that hair buddy. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 06:45, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

:I realize that, however, just as many southerners consider Atlanta "fake south" I sometime joke about Portland being "Fake Oregon." -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

We need more Iains in the world. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.244|98.118.59.244]] 09:56, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Wait, YOU live in Salem? I live in Salem too so I thought you were referring to me and making a joke at my expense. Now it makes sense. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 22:57, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

== Jim's Stance ==
2 questions about Jim's stance:

During practice- Wouldnt Jim's stance with the stock not even touching his shoulder throw the rifle completely off target so it would be bad for long range shooting as well?

During team challenge- Would holding the magazine help with the recoil at all, not for Just a 5.56, but for any magazine fed rifle.

I've seen and tried both of Jim's stances before. In the end it all comes down to preference. The first stance Jim shows is normally only used for longer range competion. Longer range competition is normally focused more on accuracy than speed, not close up and fast as shown so he would be accurate, just slow as shown during the episode, Jim was able to hit every target accurately during practice, but slowly. The second stance with Jim holding the magazine may help recoil for some people, but it felt odd for me because Im used to holding the handguard. Like I said before, in the end it all comes down to preference of the shooter.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 04:17, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:The Pacific

2011-01-16T04:04:13Z

MarineCorps1:

==Please remove SPOILERS==
See IMFDB rules but ANY sort of spoilers are NOT allowed. MPM

== Is this out yet? ==

If this series is out, i'm going to screencap it when it comes out on DVD.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:The very first trailer, which did show a significant amount of combat footage, just came out this week.--[[User:V|V]] 23:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Holy fuck, where is it? I'm a big history geek, i need to see this.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: I love history! When was it released?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 23:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Also, that gun Sledgehammer is using is an M50 Reising Sub machine gun. It was common in the pacific theater. Here is the Wikipedia article about the gun: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Reising_submachine_gun]. Also, i still want my trailer.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
:I have to agree that it is the M50 Reising. The magazine and the muzzle break and dead giveaways. [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 13:53, 1 July 2009(UTC)
::Also, i think there is M1903s in the series. When the australian trailer was released there was a production picture of the Marines landing on Guadalcanal and they were acurately deppicted armed with M1903s.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:41, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Is there a picture of the M1903 Springfield or the trailer with the rifle shown? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

its been advertised alot lately in aus (my country) just says coming soon (est march 2010) to ch 7 il keep you posted [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

:It was pretty accurate that Garands were in short supply and a lot of Marines were issued the Springfields. What caught me off guard was that 1928 Tommy with the drum mag and cutts compensator. I was actually half expecting it to have a vertical foregrip. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

For the era, M1903s would have been correct, and the Marines were last in the supply chain when it came to new equipment (this lasted well into the 1980s), but M1903A3s were the available rifles in replica form. Also, there was innate conservatism with the Marine NCOs and officers who though the M1 Garand would not be as accurate and reliable as the M1903 Springfield. When the M1 Garand proved itself in the field and supplies were made available, the M1 supplanted and then replaced the Springfield. The Thompson would be correct in that form. The Marines did purchase Thompson SMGs in that pattern for use in the "Banana Wars" though the 1920s and 30s where they participated in US interventions in the Caribbean and Central America. It was the shortage of Thompson SMGs in the early war era (purchases from Allied nations combined with the expansion of the US military forces) that forced the Marines to look at other suppliers such as the Reising SMG. So, these historical touches add authenticity to the production. ''Wraith''

== The first episode ==

I've watched the first episode, and the first Marines on Guadalcanal are armed with M1928A1 Thompsons (compensators, drum mags, horizontal foregrips) and M1903s. What stuck out what the high number of left handed M1903s out there. I don't know if this is because the Marines really went out of their way to issue left handed Marines left handed guns, or if the armorers for the Pacific are really accomodating. I think it's interesting that a left handed sniper in Saving Private Ryan, who's already issued a specialized piece of equipment, couldn't get a left handed Springfield but Marine grunts in The Pacific can. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 05:52, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

:I also noticed the old Browning .30 cal with the barrel shroud for water cooling, wouldn't they be up to air cooled 1919s by then? but overall, the first episode was great, and I look forward to watching the rest of the series, Semper Fi! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::they did have air cooled but in this war they dident replace old machineguns if they still worked

::The M1917s were still being used in the Korean War. As I said above, the Marines were last on the list for new equipment and the war in Europe had a higher priority than the Pacific theater. Early in the war, units used what was available while the production ramped up to meet demand. ''Wraith''

Air cooled is nice, but water-cooled weapons are nice in a Japanses banzi charge. M1917s, being water-cooled, can fire theoreticy forever without pause.[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 02:22, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing if you saw left-handed 1903s, the shots were reversed. Also, I only saw M1903-A3s. I don't know whether this is accurate or not. --[[User:Rugerlvr|Rugerlvr]] 03:25, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
::I just watched it again, in the same shot where there was a left handed M1903, the M1917's cocking handle was on the right side. It's supposed to be on the right side, correct?--[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

:I just got the first episode on me and I can start uploading caps if the quality is good [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Part 2 BAR ==

Part 2 BAR

At the Part2 start scene, a helf-track vehicle runs by, there's a BAR lay on the ground(sorry for I don't know how to post pics here ,I'm a new comer)
Here's my Img.ly post
[http://img.ly/HNq]

I'd probably wait for later episodes when they will probably be clearer pics. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:47, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

== I got Tivo ==

I was able to get the first 2 episodes off my TV and into my computer. Took me some doing thought [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== That good, or just lucky? ==

Episode one, when Leckie shoots the Japanese soldier with his M1911, he's either really good or really lucky. The range looked like it had to be at least forty or fifty feet, one handed, both eyes open, bullet to the chest. Sure, it's just a show, but Leckie's a real person, and the show is based on his memoirs. Like I said, he's either really good, or really lucky. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 05:52, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
::It's a show.

:At least he shoots better than the freaking guy with the Springfield [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Which guy? The first guy to shoot him? He wasn't trying to kill him, he was playing with him. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 03:05, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

:Aren't Marines trained for marksmenship first and foremost. Granted, the slogan is "Every Marine, a Rifleman" but Licklie is a dedicated .30 cal Browning Gunner, meaning that he would probably be issued a sidearm with which to defend himself, should his machine gun become unusuable, and he would probably be proficient in the usage of his pistol, so perhaps the shot wouldnt be as difficult as we might assume

== Names of Marines ==

I keep getting the names of the Marines wrong [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== The sounds of guns ==

They actually got the sounds of a lot of the guns pretty good. If you've heard Japanese guns before, you can recognize the sounds of their LMGs during part 2, even if you can't see them [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Made some spelling corrections, and the M1897 trench gun... ==
I made some spelling/ grammar corrections. Also does anyone else notice something odd about the M1897 in this screen?
[[Image:TP1897.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Hammer looks a little odd, but other than that I do not. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:34, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that's what I'm thinking is off. It looks like he is holding the trigger back so the hammer should be down, but it looks like it is too low.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 03:32, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

:There's another shot of the same scene but an explosion gives light to the shotgun. I'll try to get that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

==Nambu type 14==
I've heard rumors that these guns are very unreliable, and would just as soon blow up than shoot, but I just wanna know if there's any credit to 'em. Cause it seems like a gun that blows up half the time would'nt be used very much...

All I remember about them is that the 8mm rounds they shoot are under powered and they have weak bolts and slides. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:15, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I've read that extremely poor reputation of Japanese pistols such as the type 14 and 94 exist partly because of post-war testing on models from the final production runs. Meaning that the problems were more to do with materials and build quality, rather than weakness in the design. [[User:Pravda616|Pravda616]] 4:59 PM 16/11/10

The pistol ended up being so bad that few Japanese officers used them, at the time officers were required to purchase their own sidearms and most bought other designs like the M1911A1, the Webley, the Luger, the Walther p-38, or really any other sidearm available at the time.
Like Pravda616 said it really wasn't the design as it was the basis for the Ruger Mark I, II, III designs it ended up being unreliable because of the terrible craftsmanship of the time, they can build cars now but not guns then.

==Rules regarding gore in screenshots==
OK, there are a couple of good shots showing the Type 92 Nambu. However, you can see the dead corpse of the gunner, with his dome ripped off - for those of you who watched the series, its the infamous bit where Snafu drops rocks into the dead gunner's skull. So could anybody here tell me if its okay for me to post them or not?

We try to cut down on the gore unless absolutely necessary. It would be probably best to crop the shot to only show the gun. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:32, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I try doing that, but I end up with a smaller screenshot. Do you know any way to crop out the image, then enlarge it to its original size, just without the bits you removed?
:I cropped the image with photoshop for you and replaced the gory one with the cropped one. Hope it helps. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 07:27, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

You could use Paint to black out the Gore [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:45, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, appreciate it.

== Mercy Kill? ==
I saw this episode when Leckie kills the one Japanese soldier with his 1911 and I thought Leckie killed the soldier over anger after seing his fellow Marines killed. Was it really a mercy kill, or was it out of anger? --[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:31, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
:I thought it was a mercy kill. His fellow Marines expressed disappointment that he had done so. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 21:44, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
I know what you mean. I heard one Marine say, "Hey what'd you do that for?" but I thought Leckie did it out of frustration to the Japanese because he just saw 2 Marines killed from a Japanese suicide bomber and he might've wanted revenge after seeing this.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:54, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

== Mortars ==

Anyone else annoyed by the way mortars are portrayed in this series? They seem to take less than a second to hit their targets, totally unrealistic.

I understand its unrealistic, but how long would it take in reality for the mortars to reach their target?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 04:04, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Max Payne (2008)

2011-01-13T01:43:24Z

MarineCorps1:

Talk:Hitman (2007)

2011-01-13T01:41:50Z

MarineCorps1:

looks more like a usp tactical minus threaded barrel

:If it doesn't have a threaded barrel, it can't possibly be a Tactical. It's probably a regular USP fitted with adjustable sights. It's very common in Hollywood for armorers to take stock models and then convert them to other variants as necessary. Saves them the trouble of having to buy a whole other gun when the only difference is something like the barrel.

==Whew!==

Done. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:28, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
: I'm glad you noticed the same errors I did. Like with the MP5s, I watched that part and was like "Miss a step." I'll add armorers input after I do Windtalkers. Back to school tommorow so it might take some time. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==Para Ordnance 1911s==

I noticed that the gun placed down while he's in the shower is a "mystery Para" when it resembles the other Paras used. The only argument against it being the P18 is it's wider bore, but in a lot of shots, the bore looks like that of a .45. Is is possible they switched between P14s and P18s or something? ~[[User:yournamehere|Yournamehere]]

:That's a good point, and actually a thought I had myself. The difference between 9mm and .45 ACP 1911s is usually pretty obvious, and it does look to me like the Paras that 47 uses are actually P14s and not P18s in some of my screencaps. I'm really not sure. It is possible that they used both types of weapons in the film. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

I agree the bore looks big but you even see it in scenes were the model number is evident.
all in all they need AMT Hard ballers anything else is a bad knock off, not sure why they went with para any way other end of the spectrum.
any cheap stainless 5in 1911 clone would have been better, also with silencers 47 would have to get subsonic ammo to even use 9mm.
whereas 45s are naturally right at subsonic making them easier to silence.

==Makarov==
Is It just me or does muzzle of Makarov in picture of Udre Belicoff holding the PM look like a .22?

the mak does look like it has the bore of a .22 --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:52, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

== Unknown M1911 ==

It might be an AMT Hardballer.-[[User:GunnutHk|GunnutHk]]
:The Hardballer is most distinctive for having a much longer slide than a standard 1911. This gun doesn't. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
::Well technically the Hardballer Longslide does but a standard Harballer is 5", which is what the guns in the game were (except in Blood Money they could be upgraded with long slides). But the next two screencaps are definately not a Hardballer. The top one could be though. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]
:::I dont know, but is the grip a little wide? Double stack maybe? [[User:The Winchester|The Winchester]]
::::Well, then maybe the AMT Hardliner.-[[User:GunnutHk|GunnutHk]]
:::::What is a "Hardliner"? Also, if you meant the Hardballer - the Hardballer is not a double-stack 1911. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]
::::::I know the Harballer and there is a Hardliner.-[[User:GunnutHk|GunnutHk]]
:You know, I may be wrong, but I think the first image may still be his P-18. Look at the images of the P-18s above and you cans see they have irregularly large muzzle diameters, so maybe it still is a P-18. - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

==
== The opening scene of the movie ==

Aside from the scene of a young 47 given his guns, most of the "training" segments were from Dark Angel. You can clearly see the bar codes on the necks instead of on the back of the head like 47.

== Assassins Meeting Weapons ==

Some forgotten details... [[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]]

'''Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac'''
[[Image:NiteTac.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac]]
[[Image:HitCor5.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

'''Beretta 92FS with SGS Comp.'''
[[Image:HitCor3.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:HitCor4.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:HitCor2.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

'''Beretta Competition Compensator on Taurus'''
[[Image:HitCor1.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

== I just wanna watch the special features! ==

I wanna see this "armorer" clown sound stupid as hell. It has to be a riot, or painful... BTW is he aiming with the WRONG eye in the 1911 screen? or is this some super secret technique that the masses don't know about? --Furious Oyster

It's called being left eye dominant. Just like right, and left hand dominance, there is also eye dominance. No idea how common it is to be a lefty, though from what I've gathered the great [[Nathan Fillion]] is one. As am I. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_dominance] --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 18:26, 20 January 2010 (UTC) As am I.--[[User:L.J. Gibbs|L.J. Gibbs]] 00:22, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I am left eye dominate, right handed as well... But I learned to use my right eye when shooting. Eye patches are sexy. LOL. Never seen anyone actually shoot that way before. --Furious Oyster

is any one sure this guy is a real armorer he seems like the stupidest guy to ever have picked up a gun

Honestly, I've seen stupider. I once knew a guy that thought a Beretta 92 was a Glock. And on the previous topic, I'm a left eye, right hand as well. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:13, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

:I admit that I haven't watched this special feature (my version of the DVD didn't have it, which is why John had to upload the screencaps), but why is Mr. Maratier "stupid"? He's an armorer, not a filmmaker. I doubt his involvement in the production of the special feature extended beyond his interview, and showing off the guns he sent out to the production. The addition of footage showing targets being hit by live rounds (which Maratier himself obviously did not fire) may have been a decision on the part of the director or editor, which was done without his consent or knowledge. In which case, ''they'' are the ones who are stupid, not him.

:As for his flinching, he's firing blank ammunition. Blanks are always loaded with far more powder than live rounds so that they will produce a far larger flash, which cinematographers prefer because it looks "cool" on camera. However, the downside is that it's easier to involuntarily flinch due to the light and noise, which is why you see so many actors firing "eyes closed" in movies or TV shows. Just because Maratier is an armorer doesn't mean he's immune from doing the same thing - just look at the muzzle flash of the Blaser R93 and the CAR-15 that he's firing. Can any of us say that we would ''never'' do the same thing if we were firing blanks?

:I realize that the finished feature, as we (the viewers) see it, looks kinda dumb, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions about who is at fault. For all we know, Mr. Maratier himself has seen it by this point, and is pissed off at the editors for making him look stupid without talking to him first. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:04, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Heck, I've seen grown men considered to be authorities on firearms who flinch when they shoot. Several of the editors for american rifleman flinch when they shoot. It's very common. Generally speaking it seems to be a matter of not having any real training. Military men and women, for instance, don't often flinch when they shoot. Sportsmen who learned to shoot from their fathers and uncles on the other hand do.

Having fired live ammo, and blank ammo alike, I can say that muzzle flash isn't what makes people flinch. In my dealings, it's the concussion of the round being fired. But flinching can be dealt with if the shooter is aware they are doing it. Actors are usually eager to look good, do if you tell them they look bad flinching they will stop. -J3

I'll reply to several of the above in this post. As the first two posters said, there is left and right eye dominance. Most of the population are right-handed and right-eye dominant, but are few are opposite eye dominant. I know some competition shooters who are right-handed but left-eye dominant. Because our competition is service rifles we have to use iron sights, so adjusting the focus on optical sights is out of the question. One simply shoots left-handed, and shoots quite well. The other had a set of prescription shooting glasses made. Flinching is something that happens even to experienced shooters. I normally use a No4 Lee-Enfield in .223 Remington. With the full stock and extra metal in the barrel (.223" vs .303") the rifle is effectively recoilless. But occasionally I start to flinch. To get over this I shoot full-power light-ball 7.92x57 (Turkish) through a Yugoslav M48 Mauser, or Chinese steel cased .308 though a No4 Mk4, and then return to the .223 conversion. I can understand why the actors will flinch. Very few are experienced with firearms and only use them in their roles. Add that more powder, often with flash enhancers, is used in the blank loads, the actors (and many of the crew) are often not wearing hearing protection, the studios are often confined and enclosed spaces, and after a few retakes using the guns becomes downright unpleasant. Having shot on indoor ranges WITH hearing protection, I can tell you they are very noisy. Start using full-power standard cartridges such as .303, .308, .30-06, or 7.92x57 and it can get unpleasant. Many actors, including William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy, have suffered permanent hearing damage from blank munitions and pyrotechnics. (Wraith)

== P18.9 varient ==

The P18.9 shown in the ID image is not the same gun shown in the screenshots.

I noticed no beaver-tail grip, different hammer & trigger, and slide-grips.

Anyone explain if this is just a varient, or personalised modification?

:The one that MPM photographed (for the ID image) is a newer production model, while the ones used in the movie are older models. Para Ordnance has changed the way it manufactures its 1911s on several occasions. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 14:11, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

==MG36==
Adding the (ridiculously expensive i might add) HK bipod and a C-mag to a G36 doesn't make it an MG36. A real MG36 has a thicker barrel. Now i admit from the screenshots i don't see if its a normal barrel or not, but considering that there were only very few MG36s produced, i think they just added, like you said, a bipod to a G36. Which makes it, like i said, a G36 (probably a G36E if they didn't remove the reddot sight on purpose) with a bipod, not an MG36.
The German Army doesn't even have enough MG36 to use them in the role they're intended for, they, too, just use their bipods and C-mags on their standard G36s (if at all, neither are very popular).

== Ice ==
Would the ice affect the way those P18s shoot after 47 takes them out of the icebox?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 01:41, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series

2011-01-11T17:28:39Z

MarineCorps1:

__TOC__ 

==Other Variants==
[[Image:Line of Fire Eastwood Gun Left.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen-used live firing '''SIG-Sauer P228'''. This weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[In the Line of Fire]]'', and was carried and fired by [[Clint Eastwood]] in the film. IMFDB thanks [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet] for providing this photo; also see their sales page for the weapon, [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00276&Store_Code=TGC&search=228&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= here].]]
[[Image:Line of Fire Eastwood Gun Right.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The '''SIG-Sauer P228''' from ''[[In the Line of Fire]]'' (seen from the right).]]
[[Image:VirtuosityP228.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A two-tone '''SIG-Sauer P228''' (9x19mm) with Wilcox Industries UITC laser and barrel compensator, as used by [[Denzel Washington]] in the film ''[[Virtuosity]]''. The weapon pictured here is the actual screen-used gun from the movie, one of four that were made for the film. One of these guns is re-used in the film ''[[Barb Wire]]''.]]
[[Image:X-Five-LW-detail.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG Sauer X5 LW - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:IMFDB P00268 Sopranos Tony Soprano Sig 226.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor [[James Gandolfini]] in '''[[The Sopranos]]'''. This specific gun was the one fired onscreen when he, Paulie, and Silvio kill Pussy in Funhouse (2.13). More detailed images and purchasing information on this item can be found at [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00268&Store_Code=TGC&search=Sopranos&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:IMFDB P00273 Sopranos Paulie Sig P228.jpg|thumb|none|400px|'''World IMFDB Exclusive:''' Screen used SIG-Sauer P228 pistol with non-functional prop silencer - 9x19mm. This live firing weapon is verified as screen used by actor [[Tony Sirico]] in '''[[The Sopranos]]'''. This gun was fired onscreen in the episode A Hit Is A Hit (1.10) during the scene where Paulie and other members of the Sopranos crew pose as furniture movers and ambush a drug cartel bagman and steal his money. After the hold up, Paulie shoots the man in the head at point blank range before making off with his drug money (IMFDB thanks [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet] for providing the documentation on this gun. Contact them via their website for more detailed images and purchasing information on this item.)]]
[[Image:P00619.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Screen used SIG-Sauer P229 - 9x19mm. This blank firing weapon is verified as screen used from the film ''[[Salt]]''. The gun has been modified to fire blank rounds only. This item is currently being sold by [http://www.thegoldencloset.com/ The Golden Closet]; see[http://www.thegoldencloset.com/merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=6ef04a13fbe759cbdcbdc6bc4c4b809f&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P00619&Store_Code=TGC&search=Salt&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high= this link].]]
[[Image:M&MSSIGP229.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Two of the SIG-Sauer P229 - 9x19mm pistols used in the film ''[[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]]''.]]
[[Image:Sig-sauerP229DAK.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P229R - 9mm (also chambered for .40 S&W & .357 SIG)]]
[[Image:SigP226TwoTone01.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A reverse Two-Tone SIG-Sauer P226 - 9x19mm (identical configuration to the gun from ''[[2 Fast 2 Furious]]''; this weapon was assembled and photographed specially for IMFDB by [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]).]]

== P245 ==

I like the P245. I bought one back in 2000. I owned both the P220 and the P245 for many years and I always found that I shot better with the P245. Eventually traded the P220, but I still have the P245. It's a nice little shooter. But truth be told I did purchase the eight round magazine from Sig. So I guess the P220 Compact just makes more sense. From a business aspect. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

==P228==
I'm a bit confused about the P228. I thought that it has been discontinued for about 10 years. But that the Military uses them and I know that SIG recently came out with a P228R model. So my question is: Is it still being produced or not? -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 00:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

:The P228R is a limited production run weapon. SIG had lots of surplus P228 slides, so they modified them to fit P229R frames (even though the 229 has always been a bit wider than the 228). As for the military's use of the P228, that's just because they bought so many of them in the 1990s that they still have lots in inventory. But the original, non-rail P228 (the version still seen in most movies today) has been out of production since 2000, when the P229 in 9mm was introduced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

::Ok thank you for clearing that up for me. Much appreciated! -[[User:Gunman69|Gunman69]] 05:54, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

== P220 ==
Is the P220 still manufactured in any caliber other than 45 ACP? I know the .38 super and .30 luger variants were discontinued but many nations have adopted the 9mm version for Police and Military use so it seems odd they would have discontinued it, yet SIG-Sauer's websight only lists it as comming in .45. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Everywhere I've looked for info says no. All modern (Railed I assume) P220's are strictly .45 ACP.
Personally I like this line of thinking, a single stack 9x19mm seems pointless when you can get a P226, or a P229 and carry more rounds. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 10:55, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

The Swiss military is a big user of the P-220 pistol. I wonder if they might have their own production line somewhere (as they did with the Luger) and just do not offer them commercially anymore. Also, SIG as the monolith that it once was is no more, having broken up into various other companies: the SIG-Sauer brand, now based out of Germany (and responsible for the P-220-5, P-226, P229, SIG-556, and all other continued SIG-Sauer firearms), and Swiss Arms, the manufacturer of the SIG-550 series firearms (the 550, 551, 552, and 553), and others. It is possible that the Swiss government procured the machinery after the demise of SIG to produce the P/75 (as I believe the Swiss military calls it) and is producing them for their own uses. This seems all the more likely when it is considered that an officer in the Swiss military is given the option of purchasing his own service sidearm once he leaves the military (and thus a finite stockpile might soon quickly expire). Just for information's sake, an enlisted person within the Swiss military is given the option of actually purchasing his own service weapon once he leaves the service (this is done by sending it back to the manufacturer were it is converted to a semi-automatic only rifle and then sent to the former soldier). The Chilean government had its own license to produce these domestcally through FAMAE (according to Ian Hogg) though this seems to have expired and FAMAE now produces a variant of the CZ-75 and the Japanese government also license produced the design at one point (perhaps through Howa Industries), although this too seems to have expired, and this is once again according to Mr. Hogg. Just some potential explanations.[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 15:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== P6 hammer notch ==

As I actually own a P6, I, as I am sure many other P6 owners have, became curious of and susequently investigated the notch in the P6's hammer. I have heard various reasons for the P6 hammer's notch, including the theory that it was meant to indicate that the gun was dropped or was meant to prevent an accidental firing if it was indeed dropped. Hoever, I have come across another explanation that to me seems a bit more plausible, that it was meant to stick the loop of a retaining holster into, thereby securing the gun into the holster and preventing a drop. To me this seems to be a more potential explanation as who would want to replace a hammer each time the weapon was dropped, espiecially a SIG (not the cheapest of all firearms) and espiecially a model that SIG discontinued quite some time ago. Even finding extra (affordable) magazines for a P-225/P6 is an ordeal, so why would you try and replace a hammer every time somebody might actually drop it. I don't know, but it just does seem the best explanation to me. Also, I do not speak German, so there might be a resource out there that that I cannot utilize that expressly states the reasons for this peculiarity. Once again, just another potential explanation, what do you guys think?[[User:SAWGunner89|SAWGunner89]] 15:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

== Your picture of a SIG-Sauer P228 ==

Your main picture of a SIG-Sauer P228 looks more like a airsoftversion than a real one. The hammer has a slightly different shape than a real P228.

:I don't think it's an airsoft weapon. It was photographed for us by MoviePropMaster2008, who is a movie armorer, so that is a real weapon converted to blank-fire, from his company's inventory. However, he mentioned to me that this particular gun was dropped during a movie shoot and badly damaged, so it had a whole bunch of repairs. He is trying to find a P228 in better condition that he can photograph (preferably, one that was used in a big movie). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 16:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== Just wondering? ==

Why do many enthusisests and military forces(Navy seals,SAS,ect) perfer this gun? Is it reliability? the different calibers?

Its exceptionally well made and accurate right out of the box, they're durable, there are a variety of options from cosmetic to alternate materials to alternate barrels and rail systems, and there are a wide variety of calibers to choose from. They're solidly built, reliable, and effective weapon platforms. The only real issue is price but if you're buying something that you want to be able to defend yourself with...any time...in any corner of the world.... then the P22# series is a prime choice.
-Double Agent M

==Confirmation==
I feel stupid for asking this but just to make sure, SIG-Sauer P220 series guns have decockers but no manual safeties right? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

There are some SIG 220 series that come with manual safeties. The P220SAO comes to mind.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 04:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

And I assume the DAK versions don't have decockers. I should have specified that I was wondering about the DA/SA variants. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Ah, there are no manual safeties on non SAO SIGs.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 05:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

No problemo.

==P228 vs. 229==
What are the differences between the SIG P228 and P229 other than the fact that the 229 comes in .40 S&W and .357 SIG? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

The P226 and P228 were originally manufactured using a stamped-steel slide on an aluminum alloy frame. The P229 consists of a CNC-milled stainless steel slide, typically colored black with a Nitron finish. The P229's milled steel slide was introduced to handle the higher slide velocities created by the .357 SIG and .40 S&W loads, which the stamped slide of the P228 could not handle without the use of a much stiffer recoil spring.
:So stamped vs. milled slide. Alright, thanks. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

==Quick question about SIGs in films and television==

I understand why SIGs are used by the military, police and weapons enthusiasts but I'm just wondering why they turn up so much in films and TV. Are they easy to convert to blanks and thus is the main go-to guns for armorers or is it SIG doing some covert advertising? I remember in the late 90s to early 00s that Glock had an equivalent presence in film and television. It's nice to see SIGs in action but can't they use a wider range of brands? - [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]]

:In movies and TV, SIGs typically are typically shown in the hands of either FBI Agents (which actually issued them in real life) or military Special Forces (many of which also use them frequently). I would imagine that they are common for this reason alone - there are a lot of movies about elite units and federal agents.

:I don't think it has anything to do with them being easy to convert to blanks, because SIGs have a covered barrel whose lock-up at ejection port needs to be milled down in order for blanks to function reliably (unlike Berettas, which have a reputation for ease of blank conversion due to their open-top slides). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:05, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

==SIG-Sauer model used in recent Mythbusters==
I have a short question, in most recent episode of Mythbusters, the trio team testes a myth from Kiss The Girls movie - whether a gun can ignite a room full of gas. They used .44 Magnum, 3rd Gen Glock 17 9x19mm (if I ID'd it correctly) and a SIG-Sauer. The question is what model of SIG-Sauer was used, I'm not sure if it was P239 9x19mm? Also on a side note, they tend to mix the footage of Glock and SIG and also Tory calls the SIG a Glock... (wlw @ 27.11.2010)

== SEALS ==
Does anyone know why the Navy SEALS chose the SIG 226 for their handgun of choice, what handgun it replaced, and why it was chosen over that handgun?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 02:50, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

When the US held pistol trial to replace the 1911 in the 80's, the final two were the m9 and the P226. The M9 won based on cost alone. The SEALS originally used the M9, but after several catastrophic failures they switched to the runner-up, the 226. That was in the 80's, and they are still using it. Says a lot for SIG... I don't know what the SEALS used before, but I would assume it's some 1911 variant. --[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 04:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

What kind of catastrophic failures was the M9 going through and why didn't other branches replace the M9 with the SIG aside from price?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 17:28, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:SIG-Sauer P220 pistol series

2011-01-11T02:50:54Z

MarineCorps1:

Talk:The Rock

2011-01-11T02:43:40Z

MarineCorps1:

I was so green when I made this page. What a long strange trip its been. -GM

== Not a soldier ==

I remember one of the lines that stood out for me at the end when Major Baxter (David Morse) called Darrow a soldier and the man correctly replied that he isn't a soldier, since he's a Marine, but though obviously no one corrected anyone. The script was saying for Darrow to say he isn't a soldier, he's a mercenary because he's turned into a hired gun. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

:I just cringed at that line, because the whole idea of a Marine calling themselves or another Marine a "soldier" is the kind of thing you'd think any moron would know is wrong. Of course, this is a Michael Bay movie we're talking about. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 05:18, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

:I laughed at that part, too, but I think the word "soldier" is used metaphorically in this case. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:Yeah, well I got some buddies who are Marines and they would think differently if being referred to as "A soldier". It's like calling an Airman, a soldier. or a seaman, a soldier. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:03, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Why the training an Army soldier goes through is tougher than the Marine', I'm pretty soldier is a broad term.

As I said, I know a some Marines who would say different about being referred to as "a soldier". Training in Marines Boot Camp is harder and longer than Army [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:02, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
This will just go on and on I know some Marines and I know some "soldiers" and at the end of the day were all on the same side.

A soldier is a member of the military. By definition. Army, marines, no difference.

:Well, I dunno what country you're from, Anonymous User, but in the United States, Marines get mad at being called "soldiers". Even most people who have never served know this. Regardless of "definition", that's the way things are. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:01, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

:MT2008 you are right Marines do get mad at being called soldiers, it's something to do with the Naval aspect to the Marines. But Excalibur01 as having cross trained with the Marines, I can honestly say that the Armys training is harder. But this is simply my opinion, but at the end of the day each branch has a job and they are all good at it.
-[[User:24guns|24guns]]

The Marines are better shooters because they spend more time than the army training as marksmans and their boot camp is several weeks longer. There's the stigma that they are tougher and they like to keep the thought like that and I believe they are and it's a lot of arrogance, but they have the training to back it up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 04:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

That proves nothing of toughness, I'm not saying that they aren't. The army is better organized, I hate to say it but Marines are called Jar Heads for a reason, a lot of them are your steriotypical Jar Head douche bags. And as for the Marines being better shots, the guy with the most confirmed kills in the Vietnam War was US Army sniper Adelbert Waldron, he just never wrote a book about it like Carlos Hathcock. Adelbert had 109, Hathcock had 93 [[User:24guns|24guns]]

Those are snipers. Jar heads are called that, but Army are called grunts for a reason too. And you listed Army SNIPERS. Marines have snipers too and they are just as good. Don't think the army doesn't have its share of rotten apples and lost credibility. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:11, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Hate to break it to you buddy but Carlos Hathcock was a MARINE SNIPER NOT ARMY [[User:24guns|24guns]]

I see where this is going. I got suckered into this kind of conversation. We're done here. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:32, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

:I'll never figure out why people jizz over the Marines. No, they're not the finest, they just do less than the Army and are more effcient than the Navy.

I would like to say that I will be going to Paris Island in the future being in the Marine Corps Delayed Entry Program since September. Training is probabley hard for the Army just as it is for the Marine Corps, Marine Corps is only just about 3 weeks longer. The Marines do require a slightly higher rifle score during basic training with a rifle range at 500 yards compared to the Armies 300, but that doesnt matter. This is just a movie and it shouldn't raise any comments reguarding hate towards any branch. The military works as one even if some can't appreciate that and in the end whether a member of the Marine Corps, Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard, or National Guard, they all fight for 1 purpose, freedom for us. I don't show hate to any branch in the Military, I just chose the Marine Corps.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 02:43, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

== The fake XM177? ==

In this thread, those XM177 are regarded as fake......As some of you may think that a real XM177 should come with a 10" barrel , a A1 style upper receiver and a XM177-style flash hiders(in 3.5")......

Unquestionably, some of the 'XM177s' are not the real XM177s....they are with 11.5" barrels,A2 style upper receivers and some civilian-type-lower receiver....

Well, Actually, Some of the XM177s in the movie are Pure/Real XM177E2.....
XM177E2 comes with a 11.5" barrel,A1 style upper receiver,XM177E2-style flash hiders(in 4.5" or 4.25" )........
I deem that we can separate these guns as "Real XM177E2" and "AR-15 variation"(those fake XM177 which are not true/pure)

P.S Can someone tell me what's the exact length of the XM177E2-style flash hiders?
4.5" or 4.25"?
Because some of the websites indicated the length is 4.25" while the others indicated that's 4.5"

:If you've ever read our section on the [[M16]] page for the [[M16 rifle series#Colt XM177/CAR-15/Commando Series|XM177]] carbines, we explain that pretty much all of the XM177s seen in movies are fakes. Regardless of whether they have correct receiver style, barrel length, and flash hider design, all of the XM177s you see in movies are actually other AR carbine variants (in many cases, civilian versions converted to auto) with chopped barrels and fake XM177-style suppressors fitted to them. I'd reckon probably 99% of movie XM177s are of this type. In ''[[The Rock]]'', it seems that the armorers who worked on this film were probably short on AR carbines with A1-style receivers (or, at least, A1-style uppers), so they used whatever they had in inventory. And some of them had either A2-style receivers or the 715-style (meaning, forward assist and brass deflector but no A2-style rear sight). Point being, there's no sense distinguishing between the "real" and "fake" ones in this movie.

:I believe the length of the flash hiders is 4.5". -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 04:27, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

== The fake XM177 problem again..... ==

well.....recently there are some new edits......claiming that all of the XM177s used in the film were having 10 inch barrels...What I would like to say is that not all XM177s were equipped with 10 inch barrels.... There were some XM177s got 11.5"barrels..... Trust me, I watched it over hundreds times...... [[User:76.199.197.40|User:76.199.197.40]]

Yes, in fact MOST XM177s that fired all throughout the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s were 11.5 inch barreled guns. Most of them were either Colt 733s or Other manufacturers (Bushmaster 11.5" barreled A1 uppers) with the aftermarket 4.5" XM177 Style flash hider (this had NO sound suppression capabilities as the real one did). Many FAKE XM177s were shown with 10" barrels and a surprising number of them were MGC replicas (which of course, would never fire anyway). I've seen shows where the actors carried the 10" barreled FAKES (probably replica) and then fired with a gun that magically became an 11.5" barreled version. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:45, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

[[Image:Vlcsnap-2009-08-02-02h29m10s22.png]]
::As a note, see that notch ring on the flash hider? That's indicative of a civilian AFTERMARKET XM177 flash hider that was COMMONLY sold in the 1980s. The real XM177 combo suppressor/flash hider didn't have that. So even THIS pic is a fake XM177 MPM

you can see the Surefire Flash light is clamping under the front barrel,not below the gas block

[[Friendsever]] 02:49, 2 August 2009 (GTM+8)

I also wonder why none of the Navy Seals in this movie were given XM177s???
::The NAVY did use XM177 variant carbines in the role of short carbine capable of taking an M203 launcher (look at [[Navy SEALs]]) before the advent of the M4 platform. The number actually used was small, in comparison to the huge number of standard M16s and M16/M203 combination seen in all of the branches of service from the early 1970s to now. 02:47, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe they just ran out of fake XM177s [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:45, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

::I think it has more to do with the fact that Michael Bay just wanted each side to use different types of weapons. Also, the SEALs did use MP5s in real life (back when 9mm subguns were more fashionable than they are now). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:55, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

== Hummel's 1911 ==

I don't think that the slide of Hummel's 1911 is a standard Government version. The distance by the beginning of the slide and the vertical grooves is to wide to be a normal 1911.
[[Image:RockSpringfield1911-4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hummel holds his M1911A1 to Sgt. Crisp.]]
[[Image:Colt Goverment Model Stainless.jpg|thumb|none|400px|1911 Government.]]

I'm assuming that a gun with slanted grooves (like a Gold Cup National Match or a Dan Wesson 1911) has been modified to look like a normal 1911. To confirm this theory, you can see in this brighter screen cap that the grooves appear to be deeper than usual.

[[Image:RockColtLight.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

I don't think that is a National Match slide. In the picture above we can see a tipical government style incision under the ejection port. May be wrong, but I've never seen incision in that point on a GCNM. However the ejection port and the sights of a GCNM are different.
[[Image:Colt Gold Cup National Match (Mark IV, Series 80).jpg|thumb|none|400px|National Match.]]

I ask this only because the space that I note before the vertical grooves is very large and I've never seen that on any standard 1911 and wanted to know if anyone can help.--[[User:Charly Driver|Charly Driver]] 15:14, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

==Beretta 92SB==
[[Image:Rock92FS-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Captain Darrow holds his 92SB at Larry Henderson's head. You can see it has wooden grips but also a rounded trigger guard, unlike the 92FS/M9. Note Tony Todd's hand makes the full size Beretta look like a compact.]]
[[Image:BerettaM92SB.jpg‎|thumb|none|350px|Beretta Model 92SB - 9x19mm (note rounded trigger guard and flat bottom magazine).]]
[[Image:92SBINOX.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Beretta Model 92SB with wood grips - 9x19mm.]]
[[Image:92SB-C.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Beretta 92SB-C 9x19mm, compact model of the 92SB.]]
Even though Tony Todd does have huge hands. Could the Beretta he uses be a 92SB-C lower and full size upper? --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:04, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
:Good catch. The bottom screw on the grip and the emblem in the middle are too close to each other. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 02:14, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

::I don't think so. The 92SB-C has both a shorter grip and a shorter receiver length. I think it's really just that Tony Todd's hands are huge. I've seen him in other movies and TV shows where he handles guns, and I've always noticed how tiny even full-size pistols look in his hands. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:24, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
I do say the upper is from a full size 92. But the lower I don't see it. This pic below is supposed to be him (could be a stand-in) with a Hi-Power from 24. The grip length on the Hi-Power and the Full size 92 are roughly the same. His pinky finger doesn't look to be falling off the grip like he does with the Beretta in The Rock. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:39, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:24S7E12 Browning Hi-Power2.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Juma aims his suppressed [[Browning Hi-Power|Hi-Power]] at Bill in episode 12.]]

:I just popped out the DVD again, and I realized something else: I'm suddenly not 100% sure it's Tony Todd holding the gun. I think I even mentioned this to John back when the page was under construction. It might be Private McCoy ([[Steve Harris]]), the other huge black Marine in the movie. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 02:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

::That could be true since you don't really see his face. I still say it's Tony because the black gloves that he wore throughout the movie.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 03:04, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Pacific

2011-01-10T21:54:31Z

MarineCorps1:

Talk:Band of Brothers

2011-01-10T21:34:56Z

MarineCorps1:

==Too many screencaps. Seriously.==

- Is it just me, or does there seem to be a slightly excessive amount of screencaps with the M1 Garand, notably the ones from the episode 'Crossroads', where they act as almost a blow-by-blow telling of a whole sequence in the episode? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:46, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:- Ok, far from there being less, it seems that ''even more'' screencaps have been posted. There's now about 2 dozen or so showing the Thompson, and about '''three dozen''' showing the Garand. Now it's just plain ridiculous. Do we really need that many images? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 03:10, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. I left a message for Crackshot about this. I was thinking of taking some of the excess shots and putting them in the discussion section. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:43, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

- That sounds cool to me - most of the images are good ones. Just there's too damn many on the page is all. Forgive me, but I get a bit irked when I have a 20in monitor and still have to scroll down a mile or two for the next gun on the list. :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:32, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

== Springfields ==
''This is the only piece of kit in this production that bothered me. Why was this guy carrying a Springfield? There is no evidence of a scope mount and by this time, if I am correct, the Springfield had been phased out of frontline service in favour of the Garand.'' [[User:Charon68|Charon68]]

There were still a few soldiers using Springfields without scopes during World War 2, due to a very slight shortage of M1 Garands. The shortage would have stopped by 1944 (in which ''Band of Brothers'' takes place. This guy just must have either decided to keep his Springfield or didn't get reissued with an M1--[[User: Colt Revolver Fan]]

Actually the Springfield was widely used due to several M1 Garands shortages because soldiers favoured it due to it's rate of fire. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]]
:The 1903 was widely used by US Army and US Marine Corps personnel in from 1942 until late 1944. Garands were nonexistent in US Military hands that were in the shit in 1941 and early 1942 (January). By the time of the Battle of Guandacanal and the Begin of the African Campaign, M1 Garands, M1 Carbines and 1903s were widely used by the US Marine Corps and the US Army. By 1943 the Springfields, Carbines and the Garands were still being used but by Late 1943, springfields were being "retired" and the Garands and M1s completely replacing them. By the Invasion of Normandy, there were still 1903s being used but, less than Garands. I don't know if Airborne units used 1903s however they probably used them. Back to the Garand and 1903s, by 1945 the Garand and the M1 Carbine completely replaced the 1903.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 20:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
*It appears that the M1903 Springfield was lastly used in the Korean war and was used in the early stages of the Vietnam war limited. The M1 Garand remained in service until it was replaced by the M2 carbine and the M1 Carbine during the Vietnam war. Also, I found [http://www.bandofbrothers.wikia.com this website while searching for Band of Brothers online]. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 03:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

The Springfield was still issued at a rate of one per rifle squad to launch anti-tank Grenades. Source: http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_rifle_m1903.php3

I don't think paratroopers still used the Springfield in 1944. This particular guy was probably issued the M1 Garand but still favored the 1903 since he was seen carrying BOTH weapons earlier in the Episode

== M3 greasegun. ==

Not that it matters but,

A. I think the ones used in this were A1s, an error when Cobb has one in Holland, as they didn't exist until later in the year, and

B. Lipton never uses one. He jumps into Normandy with a Thompson which he loses. Briefly carries a Mp-40 which he swaps for an M1A1 carbine which hes uses for the rest of the fighting in France, and swaps for a Garand which he uses till he gets a battlefield commision, and switches back to a carbine.

Wrong: Lipton is seen doing something (something involving the magazine) with a Greasegun when they prepare the jump in part 1

==Winters' Garand==
Towards the end of the book Winters mentioned how his Garand had been modified for full auto fire and that the sergeant who had accomplished the feat had since forgotten how he managed the mod to the weapon. I did question the practicality of it since, with the 8 round en bloc mag...you would empty the weapon in 2 seconds if that.--[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 02:18, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

That thing would be a monster in close quarters, although its size and kick might hamper it. But I agree, that would be quite impractical. Was he said to use that same Garand throughout his tour in the book?

== Stug III / Stug IV ==

that Assault Gun, which is hit by the Bazooka is not a StuG IV, its a StuG III

Which was built on the hull of a FV432 APC. It doesn't look quite right to someone who knows WW2 armour, but it is a very good look-a-like. Much better than the T-34s dressed up as Tigers in Kelly's Heroes and Saving Private Ryan. And the Marder mobile AT gun looks very good too.

== Additional Screenshots ==
[[Image:Bob1m1a11.jpg|left|thumb|400px|An Easy Company soldier fires during training]]
[[Image:Bob2tm1a12.jpg|none|thumb|400px|Bill Guarnere ducks with his Thompson]]
[[Image:GuarnereThompson.jpg|left|thumb|400px|Guarnere fires his Thompson as he chews Donald Malarkey ([[Scott Grimes]]) for being a "Stupid Mick".]]
[[Image:WelshThompson.jpg|none|thumb|400px|Harry Welsh ([[Rick Warden]]) with his Thompson in "Carentan."]]
[[Image:GuarnereThompson2.jpg|left|thumb|400px|Bill Guarnere ([[Frank John Hughes]]) with his Thompson.]]
[[Image:Bob4tm1a1.jpg|none|thumb|400px|Johnny Martin ([[Dexter Fletcher]]) fires his Thompson]]
[[Image:Bob1m1g2.jpg|left|thumb|400px|The men of Easy Company fire their Garands in training during "Curahee".]]
[[Image:Bob2m1g2.jpg|none|thumb|400px|Lt. Winters reloads his Garand.]]
[[Image:WintersGarand2.jpg|left|thumb|400px|Winters aims his Garand. Note that it is unloaded.]]
[[Image:Bob2m1g3.jpg|none|thumb|400px|Another shot of Winters firing his Garand.]]
[[Image:WintersGarand.jpg|left|thumb|400px|Winters fire his Garand at fleeing German soldiers.]]
[[Image:ParatrooperGarand.jpg|none|thumb|400px|A Paratrooper fires his Garand.]]
[[Image:Bob4m1g1.jpg|left|thumb|400px|Paratroopers firing their Garands during the episode "Replacements".]]
[[Image:Bob5m1g8.jpg|none|thumb|400px|''"Joe, knock it off!"'' Leibgott is told to stop shooting at German soldiers.]]
[[Image:Bob5m1g9.jpg|left|thumb|400px|''"Take these prisoners back to Battalion CP."'' Liebgott is ordered by Winters.]]
[[Image:Bob5m1g10.jpg|none|thumb|400px|''"Drop your ammo. Give me your weapon."'']]
[[Image:Bob5m1g11.jpg|left|thumb|400px|Winters unloads Joe's weapon.]]
[[Image:Bob5m1g12.jpg|none|thumb|400px|''"You have '''one''' round. If you drop a prisoner, the rest will jump you."'']]

[[Image:Bob6m1g1.jpg|left|thumb|400px|A paratrooper blind fires his Garand during the battle of Bastogne.]]
[[Image:Bob8m1g2.jpg|none|thumb|400px|Another paratrooper cleans his Garand in the episode "The Last Patrol".]]
 

== Thompson Mags ==

Why is the Thompson only seen with the 30rd mag attached altough many soldiers, such as Martin, Lipton or Welch, are seen carrying the 5 cell pouch for 20rd magazines? Same in Saving Private Ryan. The used some 20rd Magazines in The Pacific though

== Mortars ==

Due to a lack of BoB on my computer, i'd like to ask you one thing.

In parts 3, 5, and 7 the mortar (I'm not sure wether it is an M1 or an M2) is clearly used. But, as a matter of fact, I don't see any picture of it on this page. Maybe an idea to poston the page?

Greetings from Holland --[[User:Wouter98|Wouter98]] 10:12, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Lighters ==
When the soldier puts the lighter to the sight on his M1 Garand, how would darkening the sight help with the weapon and does it make a significant difference? --[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 20:43, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

@MarineCorps1

The soldier isn't darkening the sight, he's just burning the dirt away from it ;) --[[User:Wouter98|Wouter98]] 12:09, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

== Richard "Dick" Winters ==
I just heard that Richard "Dick" Winters passed away on January 2,2011. May his soul rest in peace for everything he did for Easy Company 506th of the 101st Airborne. --[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:34, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:The Pacific

2011-01-10T21:31:00Z

MarineCorps1:

Talk:The Pacific

2011-01-05T02:54:11Z

MarineCorps1:

Talk:The Lost Battalion

2011-01-05T02:32:03Z

MarineCorps1:

Am changing this to MOVIE instead of TELEVISION. Though it was a made for Television, it was a MOVIE, as are Direct to Video Titles or cable movies. Television refers to recurring episodic series. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 17:34, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
:I'm going to screencap the rest of this movie when i have the chance.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 16:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

== "Gewehr 98s" ==

Those aren't actual Gewehr 98s in the pictures. Long handguards and no Lange sight. They're probably Czech 98/22s.

== 1 Handed vs. 2 handed grip ==

In the pictures it seems only Captain Holderman is using a 2 handed grip on his 1911, but all other officers with pistols were using a 1 handed grip. Was the 2 handed grip taught during WW1 or did James just prefer the 2 handed grip over a 1 handed grip?
--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 02:32, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:The Pacific

2010-12-25T15:54:24Z

MarineCorps1:

==Please remove SPOILERS==
See IMFDB rules but ANY sort of spoilers are NOT allowed. MPM

== Is this out yet? ==

If this series is out, i'm going to screencap it when it comes out on DVD.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:The very first trailer, which did show a significant amount of combat footage, just came out this week.--[[User:V|V]] 23:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Holy fuck, where is it? I'm a big history geek, i need to see this.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: I love history! When was it released?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 23:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::Also, that gun Sledgehammer is using is an M50 Reising Sub machine gun. It was common in the pacific theater. Here is the Wikipedia article about the gun: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Reising_submachine_gun]. Also, i still want my trailer.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 17:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
:I have to agree that it is the M50 Reising. The magazine and the muzzle break and dead giveaways. [[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 13:53, 1 July 2009(UTC)
::Also, i think there is M1903s in the series. When the australian trailer was released there was a production picture of the Marines landing on Guadalcanal and they were acurately deppicted armed with M1903s.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 19:41, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Is there a picture of the M1903 Springfield or the trailer with the rifle shown? - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 02:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

its been advertised alot lately in aus (my country) just says coming soon (est march 2010) to ch 7 il keep you posted [[User:Scarecrow|scarecrow]] 03:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

:It was pretty accurate that Garands were in short supply and a lot of Marines were issued the Springfields. What caught me off guard was that 1928 Tommy with the drum mag and cutts compensator. I was actually half expecting it to have a vertical foregrip. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

For the era, M1903s would have been correct, and the Marines were last in the supply chain when it came to new equipment (this lasted well into the 1980s), but M1903A3s were the available rifles in replica form. Also, there was innate conservatism with the Marine NCOs and officers who though the M1 Garand would not be as accurate and reliable as the M1903 Springfield. When the M1 Garand proved itself in the field and supplies were made available, the M1 supplanted and then replaced the Springfield. The Thompson would be correct in that form. The Marines did purchase Thompson SMGs in that pattern for use in the "Banana Wars" though the 1920s and 30s where they participated in US interventions in the Caribbean and Central America. It was the shortage of Thompson SMGs in the early war era (purchases from Allied nations combined with the expansion of the US military forces) that forced the Marines to look at other suppliers such as the Reising SMG. So, these historical touches add authenticity to the production. ''Wraith''

== The first episode ==

I've watched the first episode, and the first Marines on Guadalcanal are armed with M1928A1 Thompsons (compensators, drum mags, horizontal foregrips) and M1903s. What stuck out what the high number of left handed M1903s out there. I don't know if this is because the Marines really went out of their way to issue left handed Marines left handed guns, or if the armorers for the Pacific are really accomodating. I think it's interesting that a left handed sniper in Saving Private Ryan, who's already issued a specialized piece of equipment, couldn't get a left handed Springfield but Marine grunts in The Pacific can. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 05:52, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

:I also noticed the old Browning .30 cal with the barrel shroud for water cooling, wouldn't they be up to air cooled 1919s by then? but overall, the first episode was great, and I look forward to watching the rest of the series, Semper Fi! [[User:M14fanboy|M14fanboy]]

::they did have air cooled but in this war they dident replace old machineguns if they still worked

::The M1917s were still being used in the Korean War. As I said above, the Marines were last on the list for new equipment and the war in Europe had a higher priority than the Pacific theater. Early in the war, units used what was available while the production ramped up to meet demand. ''Wraith''

Air cooled is nice, but water-cooled weapons are nice in a Japanses banzi charge. M1917s, being water-cooled, can fire theoreticy forever without pause.[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] 02:22, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing if you saw left-handed 1903s, the shots were reversed. Also, I only saw M1903-A3s. I don't know whether this is accurate or not. --[[User:Rugerlvr|Rugerlvr]] 03:25, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
::I just watched it again, in the same shot where there was a left handed M1903, the M1917's cocking handle was on the right side. It's supposed to be on the right side, correct?--[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

:I just got the first episode on me and I can start uploading caps if the quality is good [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Part 2 BAR ==

Part 2 BAR

At the Part2 start scene, a helf-track vehicle runs by, there's a BAR lay on the ground(sorry for I don't know how to post pics here ,I'm a new comer)
Here's my Img.ly post
[http://img.ly/HNq]

I'd probably wait for later episodes when they will probably be clearer pics. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:47, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

== I got Tivo ==

I was able to get the first 2 episodes off my TV and into my computer. Took me some doing thought [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== That good, or just lucky? ==

Episode one, when Leckie shoots the Japanese soldier with his M1911, he's either really good or really lucky. The range looked like it had to be at least forty or fifty feet, one handed, both eyes open, bullet to the chest. Sure, it's just a show, but Leckie's a real person, and the show is based on his memoirs. Like I said, he's either really good, or really lucky. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 05:52, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
::It's a show.

:At least he shoots better than the freaking guy with the Springfield [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

Which guy? The first guy to shoot him? He wasn't trying to kill him, he was playing with him. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 03:05, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

:Aren't Marines trained for marksmenship first and foremost. Granted, the slogan is "Every Marine, a Rifleman" but Licklie is a dedicated .30 cal Browning Gunner, meaning that he would probably be issued a sidearm with which to defend himself, should his machine gun become unusuable, and he would probably be proficient in the usage of his pistol, so perhaps the shot wouldnt be as difficult as we might assume

== Names of Marines ==

I keep getting the names of the Marines wrong [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== The sounds of guns ==

They actually got the sounds of a lot of the guns pretty good. If you've heard Japanese guns before, you can recognize the sounds of their LMGs during part 2, even if you can't see them [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

== Made some spelling corrections, and the M1897 trench gun... ==
I made some spelling/ grammar corrections. Also does anyone else notice something odd about the M1897 in this screen?
[[Image:TP1897.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 01:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Hammer looks a little odd, but other than that I do not. --[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] 02:34, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that's what I'm thinking is off. It looks like he is holding the trigger back so the hammer should be down, but it looks like it is too low.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 03:32, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

:There's another shot of the same scene but an explosion gives light to the shotgun. I'll try to get that. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

==Nambu type 14==
I've heard rumors that these guns are very unreliable, and would just as soon blow up than shoot, but I just wanna know if there's any credit to 'em. Cause it seems like a gun that blows up half the time would'nt be used very much...

All I remember about them is that the 8mm rounds they shoot are under powered and they have weak bolts and slides. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:15, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I've read that extremely poor reputation of Japanese pistols such as the type 14 and 94 exist partly because of post-war testing on models from the final production runs. Meaning that the problems were more to do with materials and build quality, rather than weakness in the design. [[User:Pravda616|Pravda616]] 4:59 PM 16/11/10

The pistol ended up being so bad that few Japanese officers used them, at the time officers were required to purchase their own sidearms and most bought other designs like the M1911A1, the Webley, the Luger, the Walther p-38, or really any other sidearm available at the time.
Like Pravda616 said it really wasn't the design as it was the basis for the Ruger Mark I, II, III designs it ended up being unreliable because of the terrible craftsmanship of the time, they can build cars now but not guns then.

==Rules regarding gore in screenshots==
OK, there are a couple of good shots showing the Type 92 Nambu. However, you can see the dead corpse of the gunner, with his dome ripped off - for those of you who watched the series, its the infamous bit where Snafu drops rocks into the dead gunner's skull. So could anybody here tell me if its okay for me to post them or not?

We try to cut down on the gore unless absolutely necessary. It would be probably best to crop the shot to only show the gun. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:32, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I try doing that, but I end up with a smaller screenshot. Do you know any way to crop out the image, then enlarge it to its original size, just without the bits you removed?
:I cropped the image with photoshop for you and replaced the gory one with the cropped one. Hope it helps. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 07:27, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

You could use Paint to black out the Gore [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:45, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, appreciate it.

== Yellow Grenades ==
Why are some of the rifle grenades and hand grenades yellow in some shots?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 15:54, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Walking Dead (TV Series)

2010-12-17T21:49:15Z

MarineCorps1:

==OTHER==
That's Norman Reedus with the crossbow. He plays Daryl Dixon, who was not in the actual comic that I can recall. I like that though, he's a cool actor. I'm also a little bummed that they didn't use the guns drawn in the comics. Rick uses a HK mk.23. For those of you who might think that it's impossible to tell that from the comic the artist wrote HK MK.23 on the barrel. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I read some where that the Walker are attracted to loud noises. that might be why he is carrying a crossbow

It is smart to use a crossbow; because it saves on bullets and in most all undead literature and movies the undead always react and swarm when they hear a gunshot. Very good show, have never read the comic but look forward to.-GoshMr.Peabody

It's pretty amazing. I recommend buying the trade paperbacks. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

==Whoa==
I loved the comic, when the hell did it get a tv show?

The idea was revealed a while ago. It comes out on Halloween. -SasquatchJim

honestly , its like two hours till the show ,i cant wait. simmons 8492

Well it kept my interest. I'll watch it again next week to see if it can maintain the momentum.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

honestly it took some time to realy get things going , but now hes in a populated zone with other survivers . and if i was him id start that tank up! simmons 8492

I coulda sworn the 50 on that tank was still loaded with ammo and in the next scene, it had no ammo [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 01:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Just watched it again. The .50 on the tank doesn't appear to be loaded, but there's another one in a sandbag fort that is, in the foreground as he goes by. -IGemini 04:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

iv watched it from the start and i have to say its great simmons 8492

== Crappy dialogue ==

In the trailer, one of the cops told the other to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off. First off, the man he was talking to, had a Glock, so no safety. And since he's a trained cop, ready to open fire on a suspect that's hostile, why wouldn't he have a round in the chamber and his gun ready to go? That line just threw me off [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys, just watched it. Its brilliant, easily as good as the comic. The 'crappy dialogue above does jar a little tho. Hes telling him to make sure he had a round in the chamber and that his safety is off as it is implied the officer in question is a bit useless, however after doing a brass check the officer in question then presses down on the slide release (even tho the slide is forward) as if to pretend it is the saftey catch. Morgan has a 5 shot snub revolver (which someone else will have to identify as im not too good with em). Rick pull a 92fs (standing in for an m9) from a dead soldiers shoulder holster at the end of the episode, and i'm fairly sure the SIG is a tutone P228 or 229 not a P239 --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 00:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

The funny thing about the thing with the safety is that you can hear the sound of a safety being click off.--[[User:Mattattack07|Mattattack07]] 04:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Remember that the dialogue was written long before it was decided the cop would be holding a Glock(unless the writer is Michael Mann). So maybe the round in the chamber thing may have been unwarranted, but maybe he was a rookie, he did seem sort of skittish. Regardless, it's unfair to call ''that'' crappy dialogue. I think you're letting your knowledge of guns get in the way of enjoying good stories.--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 04:32, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Dont know if its worth noting, but the cop he tells that too, is actually, the first zombie he ends up shooting, after leaving the police station. Rick commented he was careless and dumb, so reminding him, makes sense.

And, of course, Rick committed a cardinal sin; he referred to a magazine as a clip :P -SasquatchJim

I'm not surprised, Sasqatch. The cop I talked to called his Glock 17 a "Glock 9". I'm sure he would have said clip to. Not all cops are into guns. Haha

==SIG P239==

[[Image:WalkingDead-SIGP239.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|A chase suspect emerges from the wrecked car firing a two-tone SIG P239 at police.]]

This doesn't look like a P239 to me; more like a P226 or P228. It's too big, and it has nickel controls (which the two-tone P239s don't have). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:P228 because of the slide length. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::Remember, on low resolution screencaps like the ones I had to use, feel free to correct the Gun IDs. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
::: Watching the scene I agree that it is somewhat larger. Sounds fine to me - I'll change it. The first episode was pretty good. I'm adding a Beretta 92FS (M9) entry - Grimes indeed takes one off a 'dead' soldier inside the Abrams tank he gets into, as noted by the above section. Also, I never did get a good glance at the snub revolver, though I'm fairly certain it's a S&W. They're replaying the show so I'll keep an eye for it, and some of the other guns. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 02:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

==Spoiler Comment and Morgan's Revolver==
Its nice to see the page updated but arn't some of the descriptions (mainly the colt python) a bit spoilerific for anyone who hasn't watched it yet? --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:07, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:: Whoa, yes they are, I sure as hell didn't add those. :b I'll reword them somewhat. Also! The revolver Morgan uses is a Snub S&W Model 66, I can almost guarantee it. Bah, wish I could get screencaps. Still, I'll add that as well. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure its a 66? I remember it having a 5 round cylinder --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I grabbed this off my skyplus box so sorry bout the quality [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2i700fm.jpg[/IMG] Any use, its definatly a 5 shot--[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 04:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: I could have ''sworn'' it was a S&W. But it's definitely not a Model 66, since there's no rear adj. sights, nor of course a 6-shot cylinder. But Smith snubbie J-frames (5-shot) all have flat 'bull-nose' ejector rod shrouds, not curved. Bah, now I'm kinda stumped. My best guess at this point would probably be a [[Ruger SP101]]. Convert that image there to JPG and upload it on the site. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::Looks like it could also be either the [[Taurus Model 617]] or possibly a stainless steel [[Taurus Model 85]]. Biu it is difficult.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 12:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

From the barrel it looks like an early Taurus Model 85 in stainless or nickel plated. It was a five shot cylinder definitely.[[User:GaBoy45|GaBoy45]] 17:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

: After posting I did consider it being a Taurus, many of them are awfully S&W looking to begin with. I doubt it's a 617 but it easily could be an 85. Hell, could be anything for all I know at this point. I guess it'll just be another 'unidentified' until we get more/better screencaps. I'll modify the S&W 66 entry I posted and just call it un-ID'd snub revolver, noting the 5-shot capacity and stating the possible choices. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 17:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I am almost certain it is actually a Ruger SP101, two inch model. No other snubbie, as far as I know, has the upper rear of the frame shaped into a rear sight notch like the SP101, as both of those Taurus models just lack rear sights - you can check the Taurus website as both models lack a "rear sight" category under specifications. Also, if you check out the behind the scenes vid [http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/?bclid=625294007001&bcpid=111717822001&bctid=628200502001 here], there is a pretty decent side shot of the revolver. The general shape is very close to a SP101, and even from the front, the lines on Morgan's triggerguard and barrel are cut much closer semi-melted look on the SP than the very sharp ones on a Taurus oR S&W.

All said, the easiest way to tell would be if they showed the damned cylinder release at some point. --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 07:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC) (Corrected typo --[[User:John 234|John 234]] 02:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

: It's not an SP101. The recoil shield shown is a simple traditional shape, not the bulkier contours Rugers have in that part of the frame. Also, the ejector rod shroud is cut back more sharply from the muzzle, and the revolver in the show seems to lack the small hole on the front of the frame for the front crane lock. [[User:Rule .303|Rule .303]] 14:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Judging by the screens uploaded I'd say definately not a 617, 617 is a 7-shot, also can't see a ported barrel. Still think it's a Taurus though. [[User:ZombieKiller|ZombieKiller]] 09:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

If you watch the Making of the Walking dead Season 1 it shows the side of the revolver.. Looks exactly like the Ruger SP101 from Breaking Bad. I'm guessing its the same prop. (Just like I think the RV is. )

== What kind of tank was that? ==

Its oviously a stand-in for an M-1 but I'm not sure what it is. I'm thinking possibly a Chieftain, but I'm not sure. Also, note that a real M-1 woulnd't have worked for the scene since it lacks the floor escape hatch.

-AC.

At this point I'm not sure, but I do suspect it's the same tank that shows up in ''[[Zombieland]]''. Both shows are filmed in Georgia and the voice-over commentary on ''Zombieland'' states that the tank is owned by a private collector.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 16:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Definately a Chieftain.

: I concur, Chieftains are often used (mocked-up) as stand-ins for Abrams tanks. I also noticed the bottom escape hatch, which as far as I can recall, indeed isn't on an actual Abrams. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

''Other comments posted on main page-''

(Perhaps it is just me, but the Abrams featured in this appears to be a mocked up British Chieftain Tank, I didn't get a good look at the tank but it didn't seem to be a genuine Abrams, although it could simply be an older pattern M1 without the TUSK upgrade, reactive armor and the more apparent loaders hatch. Yet that would not explain the escape hatch.- Doc345)

Older M1s didn't look that diffrent, from the later ones, aside from the most recent upgardes.

Also, the angle of the frontal turret armor is wrong to be an M1.

I think this may be the same tank which appeared in, among other series, Jericho. The vehicle, if I remember correctly, is built on an old Centurion chasis to resemble an Abrams with some obvious differences. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 00:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

On a random note, where was a Striker seen in the episode? It says on the page that there was one with a fifty cal on it, but aside from the tank, the only other military vehicles I saw where some HMMWVs, what looked like a deuce, and a half, and some abandone Hueys.

Intrestingly, in the trailor, the one Rick first sees after leaving the hospital lacked a rotor blade making me think it was edited in post-production. Also, the one off to Ricks left appears to still be lacking one.

-AC

at the begging seen when the main cerictor walkes out of the hospital he sees a ebandoned military equpent you can see a Stryker IFV --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 21:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
heres a picture
[[Image:The walking dead.png]]

I can say without a doubt that the 'M1' ''is'' a Chieftain, not a Centurion. The long sloping frontal 'nose' armour, the front idler wheel and the lockers/storage bins are features of the Chieftain, not the Centurion. Not too sure about the 'escape hatch' though. I wonder if this is the same 'M1' that appears in the 2010 remake of Red Dawn? It looks the same to me. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

== Things I noticed ==

Did anybody else notice that when Morgan cocked the hammer back on his gun and threatened to shoot Grimes if he didn't talk, the cylinder didn't advance to the next chamber like it should?

And what about Grimes' personal arsenal in his backpack? Is it safe to assume that rubber/resin mockups? He was getting bounced pretty hard by that horse and the guns kept bumping him in the back. That's at least 40 pounds of gear to be carrying around.

More than safe to assume that. Most of them even appeared to have solid barrels. Probably rubber.--[[Special:Contributions/99.48.50.70|99.48.50.70]] 04:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The cylinder did rotate, I remembered that happening when I watched the scene. As far as the bag -o- guns, I have no idea. If they were all rubber, they were modeled after some hard to find shotgun configurations and looked very real. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 20:59, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Grimes in episode 3 his duffle bag was holding six shotguns, two "high powered" rifles, a dozen handguns, and 700 rounds of assorted ammo. That's easily 80-90 pounds of gear. There's no way Grimes could be carrying that around in one hand with a gas can in the other. Or getting bucked and having the bag sag to the side and the stuff not come falling out.

Did anybody else notice that Dale seemed to switch between carrying a rifle with a sling, to carrying one without a sling between scenes?

== I rewatched the first episode. ==

Two of the Sheriffs deputys from the neighboring county had shotguns. One looked like and 870 Remington. The other looked like a Mossberg.

The gun used to shoot Rick, I'm pretty sure was either 1911, or a Glock. It seemed to have an extended slide.

-AC

:: I noticed the shotguns too but it was hard to get a decent look at them, mainly the second one (Mossberg I guess). I will concur at least one of the other shotguns was indeed a standard 870. No idea what the pistol is/was. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Almost positive the other two deputys, from the neighboring county had Glocks, like the other deputys from Ricks department.

You can see one of the shotguns fairly well, after Rick gots shot, one of the two deputys joins Shane in trying to help Rick. Like Shane, he drops his gun, and it can be seen fairly well.

Looking at the pick on here, I'm more positive than ever that the last gunmans weapon was a 1911.
Good eye on my part, since it was litreally visible for like less than a second.-AC.

==Andrea's gun==
I believe Andrea is packing a Smith and Wesson 3913 Ladysmith [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:I concur. -[[User:The_Winchester|Winn]]

Here's a good picture. http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-2-rick-andrea.php
[[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:: I also agree about it being a 3913 Ladysmith. We also saw a M67 'baseball' grenade in this latest episode (actually the training version, you could still spot some blue paint on it). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of rifle did Meryl have? ==

Looked like possibly a Model 70, but I'm bad at identifing bolt actions.
-AC

Seriously, does anyone know what kind of rifle he had?-AC

Compare the bolt heads (or whatever the end of the bolt closest to the butt is called); the Remington 700 seems to have more of a protruding portion, while the Mod. 70 is tucked in and more square-like.

At least, that's what it seems like. There used to be a generic page for comparing Bolt-Action Rifles, like the shotguns have now. Where did that page go?

Here it is.

[[Bolt Action Rifles - Most common Sporting Models|Scoped Bolt Action Hunting Rifles]]. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

==Shane's Pistol==
Can anyone identify the pistol Shane is carrying? It looks like either a Glock or possibly a Sig Pro. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Probally a Gock. There very common cop guns, in both hollywood, and real life. Also, severael of the cops, at opening shootout had them, so evedently the prophouse they went to had some.
-AC

Definitely a Glock. Although it's only shown briefly, it looks like a 17. He carries it in a thumb break holster.

Picture of him holding it: http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/the-walking-dead-season-1-episode-photos/episode-4-carl-lori-shane-morales.php

After looking at the screenshot on the main page, can anyone identify the holster?

In the finale you can see its a Glock 19. Not 17. (Also the firing M4s looked like they had blank firing adapters as flashiders)

==Merle==

It's Merle not Maryl or Marle

==Guts==
I really like how Rick actually checks the dead soldier's vest for more ammo instead of just taking the weapon like every other film. I also like how when his Beretta runs dry he doesn't toss it away like some generic action hero but he keeps it and stows it in Glenn's backpack. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 02:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that was good stuff. Have yet to see the Beretta again though. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

:Did you also notice that his [[Colt Python]] is still in his hoslter even though he ran out of ammo for it? I liked that touch as well. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 14:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

You never know what you might find ammo for at a latter date.-AC
::Which he does in the third episode. Anyway Python's are too expensive to be tossing away on a whim. Even after the Zombie Apocalypse has happened. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 17:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

If I recall right they've been outta production since the late 90s.

::The last Python was manufactured approximately six years ago. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 18:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Still outta production than. If I recall right, for a while it was outta generael production, but could be special ordered.

Yes the last five or six years it had to be ordered through the custom shop.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 01:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The Python, and The Anaconda, where the best revolvers Colt made since the SAA imho-AC

IMO, the Official Police and Detective Special should be included as well. -SasquatchJim

Too bad that still fully loaded .50 next to the tank is too heavy to take back [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If he can walk and ride a horse with a 90lb bag on his back like its nothing, he could carry a M2.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

And he brought buddies with him to GET that bag he left behind. They can lug around an M2 with ammo. Sure it doesn't look like there's any extra, but it's an M2 with AMMO! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

But honestly, what would be the purpose, in this story? I mean, they're already getting guns and ammo, and it's not like you need a lot of penetration to kill a zombie, so they don't really need a .50 caliber machinegun. All it would really do was kill a couple of zombies while making a shitload of noise, attracting every zombie in a mile radius. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 05:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

: I bet one would've come in handy on top of the camper during the attack on the camp. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 04:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::Possibly (I posted that before I saw that episode, sorry.), though I doubt any of them have any training or even any practice with military grade machine guns, and so I'm betting that during the chaos of the attack, they would have killed more of their own people. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 02:43, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
::: Woulda been kinda hard to use that thing in the dark, too, since the only source of light is that campfire. Scoring headshots on zombies without friendly fire in a situation like that? No way even TV-land can pull THAT one off.

Talking about scavenging guns, even when they were rushing back to the vehicles in front of the CDC wouldn't it have been a good idea to at least grab a couple of the discarded weapons lying around out front?

==Vatos==
Ok, tonight I think I've seen a S&W model 10, a Colt Detective Special, and possibly a S&W mosel 28 in the hands of the mexican gangsters and it looks like T-Dog was using a BAR. The bag had some Sigs and Glocks and Daryl had a Remington 870 and I think that Rick is using a Mossberg 590 not a 500. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't edit the page tonight, I just wrote on here. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Daryl took at least one Sig from the bag. T-Dog used a Mossberg later, but I think his scoped rifle was a BAR. The shotty Glenn ended up with, looked the same as Daryl's. Also, Shane drew his pistol at one point, but it was hard to see.-AC
==Daryl's Crossbow==
Daryl Dixon's crossbow is a Horton Scout HD 125: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2817217&cid=CSE:GoogleProductSearch. In the fourth episode "Vatos", when Daryl points it a T-dog on the roof you can see the faded Horton logo on the front. Scout 125 can be seen above the trigger after the camera angle changes.

::Picture added and changes made. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 19:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Was that an XD? ==

The handgun, that Daryl takes from the bag of guns. At first I thought it was a SIG, but after rewatching it, I think it may have been a Springfield Army XD.
-AC

Nope, definitely a bi-tone Sig of some kind.

Yeah, the XDs don't have all that stuff on the side of the gun and the slide is actually more Glock like than the more rounder Sig slides [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Walkingdeadsig.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rick Grimes ([[Andrew Lincoln]]) inspects a bi-tone Sig Sauer handgun from his bag of guns.]]

- ZeoRanger5 17:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

that looks like a SIG-sauer P226 or P228. simmons 8492

I agree with simmons 8492, i'd say p228 myself.

How did you think that was an XD?--[[User:Jackie.45Cal|Jackie.45Cal]] 14:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. When I stuck it in his waistband, it looked like a combination between a Sig, and a Glock. As far as handguns go, I'd say the XD is closest to that description. Course I was rather sleep deprived at the time.-AC

i also think that in episode 5 shane pulls what looks to be a sig when the sister is coming back to life . im not sure because i know shane has a glock but this isnt in the holster , its carried mexican style and is only seen for seconds. can some one verify ?[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Rick also pulls a gun carried similarily in that scene. Ricks looked like a Glock.

but shanes looks more like a sig or something .[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

Some ones gotta move that pic into the 228 spot.[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Faking recoil==

Its a littlle overdone but nice to see it (a HP in 9mm doesnt kick as much as shown, but its better than most shows, and handling is pretty good or tv.

may be because he hasent realy fired a 9mm in a while he wasnt use to it or because hes used to the revovler

That makes no sense, .357 Magnum (I'm guessing thats what is loaded) has alot more kick, if he can handle a .357 than he could easily handle a 9mm.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:02, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

and im sure that a python has more kick than that highpower . and being that he killed a hand full of zombies with that in the first episode it wont matter .-[[User:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

:Just a FYI, its Hi Power, not High Power.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 03:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Since most people don't know the distinction between a Hi-Power and a Colt M1911, and the show is known to have certain..flaws when it comes to reality, they could have just been assuming that it was a .45, and Hollywood logic states that if it's larger than 9mm, it makes your wrist fly up and sends bad guys flying.

Or it was just because they wanted Rick to seem cool with a stainless steel firearm (like his Colt Python, which he points at other survivors so often, it could be a drinking game).

But being seriously, this is the same show where Glocks have external, slide-mounted safeties in the US and headshots can be made off-hand with a sidearm at 50 meters while running.

AUA/

:I haven't been able to watch the series only the first episode (no cable) but... The Python is a heavy revolver and could be loaded with .38 Specials. Also with the Hi-Power being a semi-auto and able to shoot more rapidly. Would have more perceived recoil. Seeing guys on YouTube handle .45s with very little recoil, it's shotguns and full auto rifles where movies get recoil wrong. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 02:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==DShK heavy machine gun?==

I believe there was an abandoned DShK heavy machine gun flanked by sandbags when they headed towards the CDC building by the looks of the muzzle. (This was the best episode so far, I think.) - Angel_956

Most likely a mocked up M2 but I definatly saw that distinct muzzle brake.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I added a cap but you cannot really tell one way or another if it is a mock up or not. Either way...it makes no sense for it to be there in the first place!!! --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 23:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was thinking. Why would an outdated Soviet Union machine gun even be in the show, but it might be cleared up in the next episode. I clearly remember the guy in the CDC building saying something about some French soilders, I think. If so it might of meant that there was an international response to the zombie outbreak, trying to control it, explaining the DShK. [[User:Angel_956|Angel_956]]

:Now your just over-analyzing, it's in all likeliness what they used because it's what was available to use when they were shooting the scene. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 05:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Weird though, since they oviously had M2s available for filming.-AC

:Not necessarily. Armorers can change during filming and weapons may not be available even though they were previously. Also remember that only the first episode had the M2 so the armorer could have changed since then. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

== Daryl's knife ==

In the third episode, when Daryl is told about his brother, he attacks Rick with some sort of hunting or combat knife. He's later seen with it in a sheath on his left thigh, and you get a fairly close (But very brief) look at it when they're walking through the building at the beginning of the forth episode. Anyone have any clue what it is? I mean, from the brief glimpse I got of it in the forth episode, it looked like it was possibly a TOPS Steel Eagle 107C, the same kind of knife that the character Royce had sheathed in Predators, but I'm not sure. Can anyone confirm, or give an alternative? [[User:Acora|Acora]] 07:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== What kind of gun did he give Morales? ==

He said it was a .357, but I have no idea what it was.-AC

/AUA

He held it in his hand for a profile shot; maybe you should try screencapping it at that point and going from there. There should be an ID for it though, unlike Morgan's snubnose.

AUA/

I lack the equipment needed to screencap.-AC

/AUA

Use IrfanView (freeware) or the PrtScn button on your computer (press it on the frame you want to capture, and then paste it into Paint to crop it).

AUA/

I think it's a Smith and Wesson 586 [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

== Rick's second shotgun.==

After Rick gives the 590 (it wasn't a 500, someone should change that) to Guillermo, he uses one with an 18 inch barrel, a blued type finish and wood furniture. I think some people commented on it being a Mossberg, but it has a rounded bolt like a Remington 870. However, it's not an 870 since the trigger guard isn't round enough, the magazine tube is longer than the standard 4 shot tube, and it doesn't have an extension attached, and the wood furniture has a single rib on the side for gripping. After doing some research, my best guess is that it's an earlier H&R Pardner Pump, possibly in some sort of police configuration. I know it's neither a Mossberg or a Remington, though.

It's indeed an H&R Pardner Pump. The humpback receiver is unmistakable. [Ballistics_Expert2]

/AUA

I'd PrtScn/screencap the shotgun in question before making any comparisons. We still haven't definitively IDed Dale's bolt-action, so maybe you should get one of that as well.

AUA/

We still have Merles bolt-action as well.
-AC

This cap from the page will suffice:

[[Image:WD870ep05.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|Rick with his Remigton, when he and Shane patrol the woods (Episode 5).]]

And a link to a Pardner Pump configured similarly:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/TRguy/Guns/NEFPardnerPumpYouth8-12-10.jpg

A few things distinguishing the shotgun in the picture as a Pardner Pump as opposed to an 870, 500 series, or whatever:

-Some type of thin rib on the top of the barrel.
-The foregrip has the distinctive groove in it as seen on the Pardner Pump.
-The agnle that the receiver curves at the butt end is a sharper angle rather than a bend type (you can tell by the shadow).
-The magazine tube is longer than a 4 shot, but it's not screwed on like other models, nor does the endcap and barrel link resemble that of other models.

Some other things that you can't notice in the picture, like the flatter trigger guard or a good shot of the angled receiver, are seen in the series very easily, namely in Episode 5 during Rick and Shane's patrol, when this cap takes place, and one instance in Episode 6 where the doctor is drawing blood and the gun is sitting behind Rick as he waits. This good enough? --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 10:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think you're right, it's not a Remington, Mossberg, or a Winchester. It looks like a Pardner, more like the Pardner pump compact, due to the shorter barrell. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 23:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

-Rick's first shotgun was a 500 with the extended tube. It didn't have the bayonet lug, just check some of the promo pics on imbd.com - [[User:MarkXIX|MarkXIX]]

Ah, so it is, I could have sworn I saw the 590s tube cap on it. I can notice a buncha stuff on an H&R, but I get that wrong, lol. --[[User:Yournamehere|Yournamehere]] 17:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

==Think its funny==

Rick misses several close range shots (so do long gun toting officers) in the beginning against chase suspects, then later in series hes nailing headshots left and right....

Noticed that too, although zombies don't shoot back. They just charge straight ahead.

/AUA

It's a screenplay-direction thing. The show is already a bit overdramatized in general, so little things like the 'clip' and 'safety' dialogue or the headshot ratio aren't really all that important to the screenwriters, at least not compared with inserting dramatic bits into it.

AUA/

When the police were shooting the chase suspects, their targets were live people. An accurate marksman or not, if you're not used to firing live rounds at live humans your subconscious may not want you to hit that kill shot. Zombies are different.

also he has had weeks of shooting live targets ie the zombies so he as probaly leared to shot them really well --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

/AUA

Unless you're superhuman, you can't learn how to make a shot that is off-hand, behind you, at a 1.5 x 1 ft target at 50 meters, while RUNNING, in a few weeks. Few people would be able to make that shot, period. The gate-zombie shots were just...unfeasible.

AUA/

==Question about Shane's shotgun technique==
Just a question for those who may know, is it considered proper technique to hold the gun that high on the shoulder, with his cheek resting on the receiver? I figuered it was an adjustmant made due to the M4-style stock, as Rick and other survivors wielding unmodified weapons don't do this.

: I noticed that too, I figured it was just the actor's preference (possibly due to inexperience) but I guess it could be because of the M4 stock. I dunno. [[User:That's One Angry Duck|That's One Angry Duck]] 01:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

:It's standard practice in the US military. They teach you to ride the stock high so that your sights are level with your eyes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:56, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Thats with the M16/M4, not a shotgun.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:the stock on the shotgun is a Knoxx Industries SpecOps NRS Shotgun Stock

::My dad has one on his 870.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 22:59, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

-i noticed that . i dont think that stock has a single thing to do with it . it probably prefrances [[user:simmons 8492|simmons 8492]]

==Series Finale==

I noticed a nickel finished pistol tucked into Daryl's waistband mexican style early on in the episode, looked like a SIG.
I'm thinking that Daryl's pistol was probably the same Hi-Power Rick took off merle in episode 2.

Does any one else think the grenade description is a bit of a spoiler as it is a deus ex machina. I suggest only saying it is used in episode 6 and not how. I know this has absoloutely nothing to do with firearms but i loved the ax decapitation amidst the headshots at the end --[[User:Captain Snikt|Captain Snikt]] 02:39, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:The grenade wasn't a deus ex machina, but a textbook example of Chekhov's gun. He found it in the first episode even. It would have been a deus ex machina if they found it there.(I expected him to actually bring it out against the guys in the city in episode 3, myself)--[[User:Mr-Jigsaw|Mr-Jigsaw]] 08:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, New guy here. When Jenner allows the the others to enter the facility at the start of the episode, he's seen holding an M4, and he mentions that "There're a lot of these lying around. I familiarized myself." And yet, none of the others ever even think of finding a couple of the guns for themselves. Shame, considering a couple of those and a few mags would've come in pretty handy outside (especially if there was a suppressor to be found) Anyone else bugged by this?

They've been sitting outside for like a month. The M4 is a fine, gun, but you need to clean it regularly.-AC

:Only if your in the desert sand, sitting around like that outside would be fine but not how I would store my guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I was definitely bugged by this fact. Supposedly a lot of M4s and 30 round magazines lying around, and Jenner's the only guy who has one. But then again the supply of ammo might've been low, considering everything that'd happened. [[Ballistics_Expert2]]

first off all there are no M4A1`s seen inside all out side wicth iswere he probily got it second they were only out side for a few momints ehter runing away from the bulding or trying to get in before they are over welbed with zombies tird as he said ammo is preety rare as you can see when they are out side there are hunderdes of dead zombies witch had to be killed by something --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== To Do List. ==

1. Shotguns used by deputies in opening shootout.
2. Morgans revolver.
3. Merles rifle.
4. The guns, Rick, and Shane pull after Amy turns.
5. The gun given to Morales.
6. Daryls handgun.
7. Whether Shanes Glock is a 17 or 19.
8. Whether Ricks first shotty was a 500 or a 590.
9. Ricks second shotty.

I miss anything?-AC

==Short Season Huh?==

At least season 2 will be twice as long, whenever they get around to making it.....

At least there will be a seaon two, I thought this was a miniseries at first and was very dissapointed that it was over so soon. [[Special:Contributions/67.187.27.89|67.187.27.89]] 01:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

It's definately already in production. Normally when a series gets picked up production on the second season gets rolling ASAP. This became a pretty popular show, show I'm guessing AMC got the ball rolling right away when they realized they had demand for the show. Anyone here read the graphic novel series? I want to try and get into it but want to know if it's worth the time and money--[[User:Burgershot621|Burgershot621]] 05:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

They really are worth it. I buy the trade paperbacks, they are like $12.00 a book. There are 13 of them up to now. [[User:humanzie3|humanzie3]]

Personaaly i prefer the graphic novels. Dont get me wrong i love the series, but the comics are much more grim and dark, in the series everyone seems to be more willing to get along and its more zombie orientated, the comics are much more grim, its about the characters and in the comic no characters are safe, even mainstay ones. The tv series feels slightly more commercialised and main characters have outlived their comic book life already. I do love the tv version, and darly dixion is the best non comic character creation to be added to the series, I just hope Carl gets a gun next series, that said and cant belive i have to wait till october to see series 2.- Captain Snikt [[Special:Contributions/109.157.4.163|109.157.4.163]] 23:58, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

== Popular Cop Guns ==
An answer above said that the Glock was "a very common cop gun, in both hollywood, and real life." This is true, but I was wondering if their were any other cop guns in hollywood and in real life that are as popular as the Glock.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Glock pistol series

2010-12-17T21:18:51Z

MarineCorps1:

2 Glocks (.45?) play prominet roles in the movie "Fracture" starring Anthony Hopkins. Don't know the model so I didn't edit the main page ([[Special:Contributions/80.121.38.199|80.121.38.199]] 18:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC))

==Other Glock Variations==
[[Image:Glock 17machinepistol.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Glock 17 converted to full auto with 33 round magazine and unfired rounds ''(Note the absence of a selector switch on the slide)'' 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Glock_12892-1-.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Glock 17 OD Green - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Evolution.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Suppressed Glock 17 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:BruniGAP-178mm.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Bruni GAP Glock 17 blank firing stage prop - 8mm blank]]

== Longslide versions get their own Glock Model Numbers? ==

It seems kind of odd to me as to why variations of Glock pistols available with longer barrels have their own unique model numbers. Many gun websites I've been to don't seem to list such customizations with their own unique model numbers (except maybe in inventory listings or the like), but rather just mention that a particular model of pistol has a longer barrel version available. Is such a practice just for convenient reference? To satisfy customer preferences? Or for some other reason?

By the way, I appreciate all the hard work the people here have done in identifying the various Glock pistols used in the media on this site. I'd find it pretty hard myself, since barring obvious visual differences like how to tell a full-size Glock from a subcompact one apart, I wouldn't be able to tell a G17 from a G22 without seeing the number on the slide in a movie, for instance, since they look substantially the same. Something like trying to tell a G22 from a G20 would also be quite difficult without hearing a character in a movie say its caliber out aloud or seeing the number on the slide, since they are chambered for similarly-sized cartridges. I don't think its entry on the date of this comment is correct--the real-life US Marshals use Glocks chambered for .40 S&W, not 10mm Auto.

About the only exception to the aforementioned practice on Glock's end is the Glock 20, which apparently now has a factory-made longslide version (not the aftermarket ones), but to my knowledge does not have a unique Glock model number. Can someone fill me in on this? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 06:15, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

== The "Glock invisible"-nonsense ==

Here's what Hugh Laurie (yes, the "House M. D."-guy) had to say about that in his novel "The gun seller":
"You may have read, at one time or another, some of the nonsense that’s been written about the Glock. The fact that its body is made from a fancy polymer material got one or two journalists very excited a while back about the possibility that the gun might not register on airport X-ray machines - which happens to be so much hooey. The slide, barrel, and a fair portion of its innards are metal, and if that weren’t enough, seventeen rounds of Parabellum ammunition are pretty hard to pass off as lipstick refills. What it does have is a high magazine capacity for a low weight, great accuracy, and virtually unequalled reliability. All of which have made the Glock 17 the choice of housewives everywhere."
Dr. House, I couldn't agree more.
--[[User:Lastgunslinger|Lastgunslinger]] 22:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I have to admit that my whole perspective of Glock changed when they sued Smith & Wesson over the Sigma. I mean, they make more money from their handguns than any other company in the world and then they go and sue someone. The Glocks design is so simple it resembles every handgun, you might as well sue them all. I see the similarities but they are easily telled apart. Not a cool thing to do Glock, I wish you hadn't stooped down like that.

== 'Resembles Every Handgun' ==

"The Glocks design is so simple it resembles every handgun, you might as well sue them all."

It only resembles every handgun, because almost every brand has a Glock copy now. There wasn't anything like it back in 1982 when it was released. Back then its main competitors were the 1911, S&W 39, Berreta 92 and various wheel guns. Gunner313
Not to mention that S&W didn't just copy the Glock design they cloned it with parts that would fit into a Glock body, with potentially disastrous consequences.

A copy is a near exact of something. The S&W Sigma is the only Glock copy. The rest are just polymer pistols.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:29, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

==Durability==
:Does anyone else find it ironic that Glock's are nigh indestructable but feel really fragile?-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 23:05, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
The Glocks I've fired, for the most part, don't feel extremely fragile. Sure, they don't have that 'all metal heft' that some other handguns have, which makes them lighter, and conceivably more fragile feeling, but none of mine have never felt like they would shatter if I dropped them. I might be misunderstanding what you mean, though. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 21:39, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
:It just about takes a nuclear blast to destroy one, but at the same time it feels like I could cruch it with my bare hands-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 20:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I've never noticed them feeling fragille, but that could be because I can't get over how friggin' UNCOMFORTABLE they are to hold. I'm not trying bash glocks here, they just don't fit my hand. At all.--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 00:48, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

==Catastrophic Failure ==
The Portland, Oregon police department stopped offering the .45 Glock 21 as an option for Officers to carry on duty after two incidents in which the weapons exploded in the hands of the range master during testing. Afterwards reports came in from across the country of similar incidents with the Glock 21. Do all Glocks chambered for powerful cartridges (.45, 10mm) have this problem or is it just the Glock 21? Furthermore do all Glock 21s have this issue or were these just a few rare accidents? I don't particularly like Glock pistols but never considered them dangerous (at least to the user) before hearing about these incidents.
-[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

Hmm. Given the problems that PPB has given Glock in the past (back in the early nineties they commented that "PBB is one of those customers we can't seem to ever make happy") I'm not surprised they blame the company rather than themselves. They also refused to fly to Smyrna to allow Glock to examine one of the pistols; they also refused to allow Glock to remove even one of the allegedly defective pistols for lab tests. The PPB also failed to submit either of the pistols for independent testing, despite stating that it would.

If there was a design flaw it would have shown up '''long''' before now. Glock has ~65% of the US LEA market, mostly in .40 and while the "Short and Weak" isn't nearly as powerful as 10mm Auto, it's generally loaded to higher pressures than .45 ACP

I've used the G20 and G29 (both chambered for the far more powerful 10mm Auto round) for years and haven't had a gun explode or do anything worse that FTE when used with poor ammunition. A few years back we torture tested one with 15,000rds in a single day, it didn't explode.

It's not just .45 and 10mm. I've personally seen a glock 17 explode with factory ammo. Not a pretty sight. --[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 00:55, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

== Portland Police and it's standards ==

The Portland Police Bureau is a strange department. I've known experienced officers who have tried to get on with the PPB only to be told that they didn't meet Portland's criteria. In a couple cases they were experienced Oregon certified officers from neighboring cities. One of them spent a year in Kosovo with the U.N. civil police training task force. It's a strange city with an odd police administration. I've known a few good cops who work for Portland, but overall I'm glad that I never applied with the PPB.Ultimately I believe the politics of that part of Oregon would have driven me crazy.Very very LEFT WING. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 15:40, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

It's only certain Glock models that do it. I've noticed it a lot on the .40 S&W models such as the 22 or 23. The problem is that in order to increase more reliable feeding as well as to make the gun cycle more reliably, Glocks have more of their chambers cut away, which leaves parts of the case unsupported. They count on the casing to hold in the powder load. I think it happens mostly on the larger cartridges such as 10mm Auto, .40 S&W or .45ACP. Haven't heard of it happening on any of the .45GAP models though. I'm personally not a big fan of Glock pistols. I don't find them very visually appealing and I hate the lack of a manual safety. And I really, really dislike the trigger they make on it. They need to take off the little lever in the trigger, and just go to a solid double action trigger and put a manual safety on it. I'm a 1911 man, but I think there are many other designs that are better than Glock's. For example, Sig Sauer or H&K. Or Springfield's XD series. S&W Sigma. I mean the list goes on and on. I won't buy a Glock for the reasons I mentioned above. Right now, all I own are 1911s and one H&K USP .45.

:I'm a bit confused. You say that you do not like Glock pistols because you find them unattractive and you prefer a manual safety, both of which are valid reasons. But then you claim that designs from SIG Sauer, H&K USP, the Springfield XD, and the S&W Sigma -- all of which, save for a few specialty models, do not have a manual safety -- are superior to the Glock design. That just doesn't make sense. It's perfectly fine to dislike Glock pistols, but to claim that they are inferior to other designs for lacking a manual safety, when those very other designs also lack manual safeties, is rather odd. [[Special:Contributions/68.39.83.179|68.39.83.179]] 22:07, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

::I've only had hands-on experience with the Glock 21 myself. Me and my sister shot one on my birthday this year, and she had the Glock malfunction on her too, albeit not nearly as severely as the incidents mentioned above. She pulled the trigger and the weapon failed to discharge. When I cleared the chamber, I found that the pin had missed the primer and struck the back of the casing. After that though we didn't have any further problems with the weapon, that being the only round out of 50 we put through the Glock 21 that had a misfire. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 03:19, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Not sure on the Sigma, but the XD has a grip safety, and most sigs have de-cockers. I don't know if those meets your definition of 'manual safety', but they're certainly more than glock has.--[[User:TheDon|TheDon]] 15:40, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

==Glock 18==
what would a fully automatic pistol be used for? VIPs protection and CQC
There was a fad for such machine pistols (VP-70 and M-93R for other examples).

But the Personal defense weapon have taken this firearm nitch and more. Rex095

Sort of like lasers when they first came out.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 20:24, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

what do you mean? about the lasers

Lasers were thought to be the end-all substitute for irons yet now they are just seen as a gimmick.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:32, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's not really a gimmick today. People still use lasers to aim, distract someone by aiming at their eyes and for small frame guns where the iron sights are bad, like a pocket gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 14:57, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

== Generation 4 Glocks ==

I realized that the page is laking the Gen 4 Glock 17 and Gen 4 Glock 22 --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 17:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Added the Gen 4 model for Glock 22--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 17:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

:The picture you posted is not a 4th Generation Glock; it is an RTF (Rough Texture Frame) model, which is not the same thing. The main difference between the 4th Gen Glocks and older models is that they now have removable backstraps. And anyway, we don't need the picture until we know they've appeared in movies (and at the rate armorers buy new pistols, no time soon.) IMFDB's policy is that we don't need a picture of every variant of a gun that has ever existed (at least not on the gun's page), and ''especially'' if it hasn't appeared in anything yet. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Well that and the fact that the 4th Generation also has a captive recoil spring, but of course how in the hell do you show that? Shot a 4th Gen G17 today at the range. Very nice. Recovery is all that much faster. I was impressed. The company will be coming out with the 4th Gen G19 in a month or so. However the 4th Gen G21SF isn't due out until next year. Sorry 45 acp mafia. I was talking to one of the corporate guys so I feel confident that he knows what he's talking about. Anyway just some nice to know trivia.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 05:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

== Glock 34 ==

Just looking at the section for the [[Glock 34]], only [[End of Days]] and [[Man on Fire]]. In both movies, It's used by the Main Character to attempt suicide. That's gonna be a good ad campaign: "''When You Can't Go On Anymore, Reach For Your Glock 34''"

==1st Generation==
Did the first generation of Glock pistols feature anything other than the Glock 17? I've seen second and third generation versions of nearly every model, but the only first generation pistols I've ever seen are Glock 17s. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

A small number of first generation Glock 19's were made. - [[User:Right Wing Gun Nut|Right Wing Gun Nut]]

It should have only been in the glock 17...and you shouldn't see one easily because they didn't meet ATF regulation until the generation 2.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 22:25, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

What reg did they not meet?--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 18:34, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

:1st Gen Glock 19s do exist, but they're very rare, because Glock went to the checkered front/backstraps on all of its pistols shortly after production began. Also, the Glock 17L and Glock 18 both exist in 1st generation incarnations (though they're also pretty rare). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:04, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

::So there were other 1st generation models than the 17, but were all 1st generation guns 9mms? -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]

To meet American ATF regulations, a steel plate with a stamped serial number was embedded into the dust cover in front of the trigger guard for generation 2. I have seen no evidence of a first generation glock being in any other model than the 17. Even the people that claim they have a generation 1 glock 19 still only show pictures of a generation 2...so i would need to see proof on anything other model being in generation 1. but my knowledge is limited to what's available in the normal U.S.A. for some glock models are not legal to have in the states.--[[User:Spades of Columbia|Spades of Columbia]] 19:55, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

:Gen 1 Glock 19s do exist. Check out [http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887305 this topic] from GlockTalk. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

==Other models==
Why were the models that were removed before put back? I thought IMFDB didn't allow sections for variants of a gun that haven't appeared in any media. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::See Stan's post below, and also the Glock 20 that was deleted actually WAS in something. When we went to link it, surprise, it wasn't there because it had been removed. Not a good thing. Any SERIES of guns, do not remove the interim gun series entries ever. They are there for continuity in the SERIES of models. The only guns we remove are the weird single gun entries that some member jacked off of google and won't appear in a movie, etc. ever, and if they do, only then do we create the page. The only exception is guns that are in active armorer inventory NOW. That means that there is a much HIGHER chance of them being seen, and we need the gun pics to help members positively ID them. Hope this helps. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:51, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::When the Glock variants were initially deleted I mentioned that having gaps in the list of different models seemed odd, yet those who deleted them responded that any weapons or variants of weapons that have not appeared in media are subject to deletion. I like that the different variants have been restored to the list, I was just curious as to what the procedure was for guns that are variants of weapons that have appeared in films though that specific variant had not since I had heard conflicting information. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::::- Yeah, that was me. I found it irksome to have several models (mainly new ones), that weren't listed or even linked to anything, it was annoying to me. I still think that in regards to the newest 30 model guns, but that's just me. BUT, as MPM said, they are still standard guns of the same series, and many are in inventory, so they'll be used in something eventually (If indeed they haven't already and we just don't have pages, etc). I think the main problem was getting rid of older guns like the 20 that are ''definitely'' in stuff already and should be there accordingly. A couple of the other guns are also linked to pages but just don't have them listed - I'll go ahead and add the listing(s) myself if they're listed on complete pages and/or positively ID'd. Otherwise, you could just say they're being proactive. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:23, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

-Original Reply- 
I replaced the sections I previously deleted by request of MoviePropMaster2008. Essentially they are for reference right now. However, there are also a sort of placeholder as well - MPM has stated on other pages that such guns are in movie inventory, so eventually they'll get listings/entries - As such, the sections are to remain so that they don't have to be re-created later. A couple of the guns are already linked on pages I believe, but the pages may not be complete or they may not be listed for some other reason. I did remove them because at the time they weren't featured in anything, but it really wasn't my call to remove them in the first place. (EDIT - removed MPM's paraphrased personal message to me, as he posted himself). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 05:36, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

::I should point that I am highly skeptical of some of the Glocks IDs that are supposedly [[Glock 20]]s. The episode of ''[[Psych]]'' in which [[John Cena]] supposedly uses a Glock 20 is wrong; I've seen that episode, and he uses a Glock 17L. I'm equally doubtful that the Glock 20 appears in Season 4 of ''[[24]]''. Since we know that (as a rule) movie armorers rarely use any Glocks that aren't 9x19mm, I can't help but wonder if people are going to be tempted to mis-identify Glocks if they see these other variants on the page. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Fair enough, and I'm not defending some of these questionable attributions, but I had to replace a pic for a VIDEO game where the gun was a specific variant of weapon (and was specifically NAMED in the game as an off caliber variant), so we still needed the section. Also foreign helmed films don't have the ammo biases that we in the States do ;) the sheer CHANCE that folks will mis-identify the gun is not reason enough to NOT have the section. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:44, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

:::- Well, in the case of those shows, I'll remove the TV subsection until they're confirmed. I will put in the VG entries, though, as they aren't questionable. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

::::Whoa whoa whoa STOP!!!!! Don't remove ANYTHING!!! IMFDB users should look long and hard and try to correctly ID guns, but for now just creating a BLANK space is unacceptable. What is WITH this rush to delete everything all of a sudden? If you don't have correct info to replace it with, DON'T DELETE IT! YOu can put a disclaimer on the various discussion pages (that there may be a question as to whether or not the gun ID is correct), but I dont' want to start seeing blocks of empty space. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:47, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

::- Uh, wait a minute, the only thing I removed was the TV section for the Glock 20, and that's it. Nothing else. Most of the gun sections I replaced from the other day were '''already blank''' - they didn't have anything before. Again, the TV listing subsection for the Glock 20 section was the '''only''' thing I've removed since I put all the other guns back, and I've since already restored it. Outside of that and adding some subsections to a couple of the guns, I haven't touched the rest of the page. Not trying to give ya a headache MPM, but I really haven't done that much this time, honest. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 23:45, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I was just reeling from the previous Glock debacle where I spent an entire morning rephotographing a Glock variant, only to realize later that it had been previously there, but deleted. My brain is still traumatized ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 00:53, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
::- Yeah, I still feel real bad about that.. I'll probably never live that down. Bah. ;b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:59, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

==First appearance==
I remember one of our movie pages pointing out that that film was the first appearance of a Glock Pistol in a movie. Does anyone know which movie that was because I can't remember.

: Don't know. The earliest-set movie page I can immediately spot a Glock (Glock 17) on is [[To Live and Die in L.A.]] (1985), but I'm not certain if that is it. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 04:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

That's not it. We have a page of a movie from the early 80s where the page explicitly states that this is the first appearance of a Glock in film.

:
::I'm pretty skeptical that ''[[To Live and Die in L.A.]]'' features a Glock, because they were not being imported to this country for the civilian market at the time the movie was filmed. Though I guess I'd have to see the movie to be sure. Season 3 of ''[[Miami Vice - Season 3|Miami Vice]]'' featured a Glock 17 in one episode (which was used by [[Don Johnson]]), and that's the earliest documented appearance of a Glock that we have on this site so far besides ''To Live and Die in L.A.''.

::''We have a page of a movie from the early 80s where the page explicitly states that this is the first appearance of a Glock in film.''

::Which page? I just checked all of the pages which feature our 1st gen Glock 17 picture, and didn't see any movies from the early-80s. Also, I'm skeptical because the first Glock 17s available to civilians didn't start coming into the U.S. until 1985, so it's pretty much impossible for any movie/TV show filmed before that to feature a Glock (unless it was filmed in Europe or some other country where Glocks were available sooner). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 13:15, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:::- Not to increase the load, but it might be worth checking under the second gen picture also. After all, not pages pages use the accurate gun picture, whether because they didn't know about the specific differences/generation release dates when they made the page or because the Gen 1 picture wasn't actually around and no one updated the thumbnail. Just a thought. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 16:49, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:::I have tried watching To Live and Die in L.A. and get a better cap, it just looks like a black gun to me. [[Johnny Handsome]] featured a Glock, it was released in '89. There's got to be a film before that. That Miami Vice episode aired Jan '87. Good idea about checking the 2nd gen pic. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:47, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

::::Point taken on the 2nd Gen G17 pic, I forgot about that. But I don't envy the person who has to sort through all the pages on which it appears (nearly 250 in total, last I looked). But I can still tell y'all that you're highly unlikely to see a Glock in any movie made before 1985, for the reason I mentioned earlier. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:10, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:: That's not even counting those that ''don't'' have a gun image, or.. well, you get the point. Bah. I'm afraid we may not find out what page it is, unless Anon's memory gets better. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 22:44, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

:::I just checked all of the page links for all three Glock 17 images. So far, I can't find any movies or TV shows other than the ones mentioned previously that have featured Glocks. Of course, there is still the possibility that somebody forgot to put ''any'' image for some movie that featured a Glock, but I imagine we'd have caught that by now.

:::So, I have reached the following conclusion:

:::*Season 3 of ''[[Miami Vice - Season 3|Miami Vice]]'' is the first media appearance of a Glock 17, movie or TV.
:::*''[[Johnny Handsome]]'' is the first known movie to feature a Glock 17.

:::Unless someone finds any earlier appearances (and has the screencaps to prove it), these are the first media appearances of Glocks. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

: Well, it's a page done by Pred, and the section says 'one of the earliest appearances of a Glock', so that's probably what Anonymous was talking about. If not, then we need to kill him for even bringing this up. :b [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 00:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that is the page I was talking about, I just couldn't remember it. Please don't kill me. -[[User:Anonymous|Anonymous]]
::: Sure, but only because you said please. Mystery solved then? [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 15:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

::Wow look at that, I don't even like Glocks. I don't know if either of you two have seen Johnny Handsome. The gun dealer gave a little explanation about the gun, made in Austria, plastic etc. I just glad it beat Die Hard 2. When I wrote the comment I figured another film had to have featured it before JH that's why I said one of the earliest uses not the first. Unless another comes up with an appearance before JH, [[Mickey Rourke]] has both the first usage of the Desert Eagle and Glock in a film.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:06, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright I changed both the pages. If someone has better wording to use, go for it. --[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 01:20, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

== Removal of Variants that have not been seen in media ==

I was just re-reading the [[Rules, Standards and Principles]] page and was wondering if anyone has a problem removing the Glock models 24, 28, 29, and 37 - 39 as they have yet to appear in any movies/anime/games. It looks like alot of effort was put into this page so I just want check before making any changes.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:08, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::'''Good thing you asked, since I would have been pretty pissed at you if you made such a major change without checking first.''' We've had this come up before. A previous member took it upon himself to remove a Glock variant which has not listed, and then, BEHOLD! it was obviously apparent in some movie or tv listing, so ANOTHER member, seeing that we didn't have the section (it had been deleted) copied a jacked GOOGLE image of the gun and re-created the section. I, seeing a CRAP google image thought "hmmm, I could have sworn I photographed that type of Glock for this page already", so I spent the entire morning rephotographing that model of Glock for the Glock page. When I tried to re-upload the photo, IMFDB warned me that this photo already existed. I was "WTF?" By tracking down the history of the page, I tracked down the member who DELETED the glock section and admonished them that it was just creating problems, since a few days AFTER he deleted it, the model appeared in something. So the rule is: DON'T REMOVE ANY VARIANTS on ANY PAGE, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE MPM MOVIE ARMORY PHOTOGRAPHS (which were done specifically FOR IMFDB). Thanks for your attention in this matter :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:56, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:I would leave it, Glocks are hard to tell apart sometimes. So it's good to have all the models on the page for reference. It's not like a user creating an entire new page for a gun that hasn't appeared.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 06:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Damn propmaster no need to yell man. There's a reason I asked in here first. Maybe you should add the blurb about not removing variants pictured by armorers in the rules section. That's the only reason I brought up the question in the first place.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 06:29, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It's not yelling, it's emphasizing. And sorry if it seemed that way. As for the emphasis, it was for all members. You at least asked, but I must emphasize again, if any member MUST do something, try adding to lame pages, resist the temptation to delete other people's work. Leave that to the mods, unless its something ridiculous. MPM

== Numbers ==
Anyone know how Glock comes up with the numbers for their handguns?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 21:18, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

User:MarineCorps1

2010-12-17T21:11:35Z

MarineCorps1:

'''Born'''- Asia, but moved to US at young age

'''Hobbies'''- Airsoft, Xbox, snowboarding

'''Future Plans'''- United States Marine Corps, just turned poolee yesterday (September 14,2010)

'''Favorite Movies'''- Public Enemies, We Were Soldiers, Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan

== '''Favorite firearms''' ==

'''M16A4'''-Alongside the M16A2, the standard Marine Corps infantry rifle, can't go wrong with it.

'''HK416'''- Basically an M4A1, but more reliable. The weapon I would want in a combat zone.

'''Beretta M9'''- Accurate 9mm pistol with a 15 round magazine and very easy to field strip.

'''Colt M1911'''- A reliable hangun to go with a hard hitting round. Another one of John Browning's fantastic designs.

'''M1921 Thompson'''- A cool looking gun with a hard hitting round. If the Winchester 1887 was "The Gun That Won The West" this was "The Gun That Won The Gangsters."

'''M1 Garand'''- As quoted by General George S Patton, it was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." 8 rounds of 30-06 in a semi-auto rifle. Watch out for the PING.

'''Remington M40'''- In my humble opinion, The best sniper system ever made. Wielded by legends like Carlos Hathcock and Chuck Mawhinney.

'''Barrett M107'''- A great rifle for long distance. Able to stop almost anything on the modern battlefield with 10 rounds of semi-auto .50 caliber fire.

'''Springfield 1903'''- A rugged rifle for World War 1 and a good sniper weapon in World War 2. Perfect weapon for the "devil dogs"

'''M14'''- A great infantry weapon and an even better sniper rifle. 20 rounds of semi-auto fire, plus Chuck Mawhinney got 16 headshots with this rifle and a starlight night scope in less than 30 seconds.