Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Armsel Striker and variants

2021-05-01T14:36:42Z

Luisiuman1998519: /* Striker optical sight */ new section

=Additional Variants=
[[File:TotalRecallSS.png|thumb|none|500px|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper modified with M203 Handguard and M1919 Barrel Jacket as used in the film ''[[Total_Recall_(1990)|Total Recall]]''.]]
[[File:StreetSweeper.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper - 12 Gauge]]

=Discussion=
==Now able to buy ... that's funny==
I thought the original BAN on rotary shotguns was based on the design, not by name. However, the original BAN by Bill Clinton was by name, so I suppose that Sentinel Arm's newest offerings are legal to buy and sell. Don't quote me on that, but I know the original guns were declared Destructive Devices by good old Bill. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

:So wait, is Sentinel Arms manufacturing new Strikers for LEO/Class III sales? -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:35, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
So... Semi-auto shotguns with tubular magazines are legal to buy w\o special license, but the one with drum mag goes under Class 3 permit? It shoots the same ammunition, it kills the same. Can someone explain the logic?

:Because it looks evil. Also there is no such thing as a class III permit. Just class III licensed dealers (According to federal law THEY have to be licensed to sell, you don't have to be to buy). Anyone who can pass a federal background check can buy a Class III weapon, if they can afford to buy and register it.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 04:21, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
::Not true. Many states require state approval for any transfer of a Title II firearm, so you do NEED a Class III permit in some places. Only in states with minimal gun regulations, does the purchase and ownership default to purely Federal requirements. [[Special:Contributions/75.36.154.130|75.36.154.130]] 04:53, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

==We must verify what shotgun was what==
I am not sure we have correctly identified the proper shotguns for the sections. We must revisit these entries and try to verify if they are either Armsel or SWD/Cobray guns. Also is there proof than ANY Sentinel guns have made it into movies? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:44, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
==Formatting and organization==
I'm just about done with formatting and organization.I just have to organize the films by date. Some of the film may be removed when I can confirm that the weapon in question is or is not in the film. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 14:59, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

==MW2 Reload==
For the Striker-12, does it actually reload like how it does in MW2? Specifically, can the tab on the side of the drum really advance the drum in real life? On page 11 of the Striker 12 manual page ([https://www.smallarmsreview.com/archive/detail.arc.entry.cfm?arcid=10528 Image 5 in this gallery]), the tab is said to be an "aperture button", and is used to open or close the ejection port. In Ian's [https://youtu.be/RlR1CI3ck_U?t=517 recent Forgotten Weapons video], he also only uses it as the ejection port button, though he didn't push it down. Is there any evidence that pushing the tab down will turn the drum?
[[File:MW2 Protecta (5).jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 18:57, 5 October 2019 (EDT)
:Not near as I can tell; it's basically just a loading gate. Not to mention that if it did advance the cylinder, it'd probably advance it in the other direction, since that's the way that you're actually pushing it. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 09:11, 6 October 2019 (EDT)

OK. After a few rounds of thorough thought into it, I have come to the conclusion that the tab to the right of the trigger cannot advance the chamber, and it is purely used to open/close the ejection port. Until concrete evidence is provided showing that it can act as a drum advance lever, I will consider the MW2 reload (and all the video game Striker-12 reloads that followed suit) to be completely BS. I have three key points supporting my conclusion:

# The tab is clearly marked and used as a switch for the ejector port in its manual (see above). This is supported by video evidence from Forgotten Weapons.
# The original Striker-12 (the version without the rear drum advance lever) user manual specifically states that you are supposed to use the winding key to advance the drum during reloads; at no point was a drum advance lever ever mentioned.
# On later models, they ADDED a drum advance lever on the gun (behind the grip); if the tab could already advance the drum, then why do they still need the original Armsel Striker drum advance lever?

--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 18:56, 15 October 2019 (EDT)

== Penn Arms Striker official product catalogue ==

Rummaging through webarchive to find this shotgun official information/specification. Apparently this weapon has been de-listed from the official website of Combined Systems, parent of Penn Arms, from 2016 onwards

Here are what I can find

http://web.archive.org/web/20160412055147/https://www.combinedsystems.com/products/?cid=133

http://web.archive.org/web/20120417211732/http://www.pennarms.com/pennarms/12ga-Shotgun-Spring-SE.aspx

This weapon is called Striker SE on their webpages. Also different is the pistol grip that allows attaching a fixed stock and an AR15 stock, instead of the more commonly seen top-folding stock.

The current Combined Systems product catalogue, https://www.combinedsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Penn-Arms-Catalog-2011.pdf , which seems has not been update since 2011, still has Striker SE in it, near the last page of the catalogue. But I doubt the Penn Arms Striker are getting reinstated.

== Striker optical sight ==

I always wonder what those optical sights occasionally found on Striker. So I began some searching.

Found the official listing of the optic used on Striker shotgun. https://www.armsonusa.com/barprstsw.html

The Armson Pro-Dot Striker/Street Sweeper optic is a collimating optical sight. The optic is not transparent, but the optic has an red dot image. When the user is using both eyes, one at the target and one down the sight, the "red dot" is superimposed to the user's other eye aiming at the target. The user can then aim at the target using the "red dot".

Talk:Armsel Striker and variants

2021-05-01T13:56:54Z

Luisiuman1998519: /* Penn Arms Striker official product catalogue */ new section

Talk:FAMAS

2021-04-30T15:53:16Z

Luisiuman1998519: /* FAMAS Valorise/Felin barrel rifling twist? */ new section

=Additional Images=

[[File:MAS 223 and bayonet.jpg|thumb|none|500px|MAS .223, the civilian variant of the FAMAS F1, with bayonet - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:FAMAS-G2 family.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FAMAS G2 family - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:FAMAS G2 with bayonet.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS G2 with bayonet affixed - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:FAMAS G2 rifle.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS G2 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:Unique F11 rifle left.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Unique Model F-11 - .22 LR]]
[[File:FAMAS Felin.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS FÉLIN prototype as demonstrated in 2006. Note straight bipod legs, the front grip, and G2 magazine well.]]
[[File:FAMAS PROTOTYPE.JPG|thumb|none|500px|FA-MAS 54B prototype - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:FAMAS PGMP.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS with PGMP rail mount system - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:FAMAS F1 M203PI.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FAMAS F1 with underslung [[RM Equipment M203PI]] - 5.56x45mm & 40mm]]

==Airsoft Variants==
[[File:FAMAS F1 M203 AEG.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Airsoft''' FAMAS F1 with M203 grenade launcher - (fake) 5.56x45mm NATO & 40mm]]
[[File:TM FAMAS SV.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Airsoft''' FAMAS SV (Tokyo Marui AEG version of the G1) - (fake) 5.56x45mm NATO]]

=Discussion=

Does anyone know if any other countries use the FAMAS besides France?--[[User:Mpe2010|Mpe2010]] 13:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS#Users That should have them. --[[Special:Contributions/74.177.135.205|74.177.135.205]] 14:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:According to Wikipedia, the Republic of Djibouti, Gabon, special forces groups in Indonesia, the Republic of Senegal, the United Arab Emirates, Lebanon, and the Philippine Special Forces use the FAMAS.--[[User:ThePotShot|ThePotShot]] 14:31, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Which makes sense since they are all former french colonial possessions.
: For more FYI, Indonesia, the Philippines and UAE aren't French colonies. They just bought them (mostly) for spec ops use. I know the Special Action Force and Kopassus use them as one of their main ARs. [[User:Ominae|Ominae]] 14:54, 4 March 2012 (CST)

Hmmm. The picture of the FAMAS G2 on this page is actually of a G1 which is the intermediate model between the F1 and G2. The G1 has the older F1 magazine-well and uses the old F1 magazines, wheres the the G2 has a fuller magazine-well and can only accept NATO STANAG magazines. Check here http://world.guns.ru/assault/as21-e.htm

On a side note, the FAMAS in Metal Gear Solid is modeled after Tokyo Marui FAMAS, which in turn is modeled after the FAMAS G1. I think the FAMAS entries for Metal Gear Solid and Twin Snakes should be changed to the FAMAS G1 instead of the FAMAS G2.

== New image for G2 ==

Am I the only one who thinks that it was a bad idea to overwrite a standard FAMAS G2 pic with the image of a G2 with F1-style trigger guard?? I cannot find any page with that configuration. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:06, 4 March 2012 (CST)

== The Search for the FAMAS' replacement ==

Fans of this gun may be interested in knowing the circumstances behind this gun's upcoming replacement in the future. I happened upon a [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/08/28/guest-post-the-french-army-and-the-search-to-replace-the-famas-rifle/ guest blogger's post] that explains the problematic circumstances the French Army is currently in and how the efforts to replace the FAMAS are being affected. If that blogger's words are true, then the French Army is deep in the ''merde''. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:00, 28 August 2012 (CDT)

Pretty sure they decided to officially replace it with an HK417 variant although they'll still buy some SCAR-Ls as well since SF use them already [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] ([[User talk:Recon42|talk]]) 15:04, 28 January 2013 (EST)Recon42

Well, you were almost right. They are replacing it with [[H&K 416]], but will take up to 2020.--[[User:Dannyguns|Dannyguns]] ([[User talk:Dannyguns|talk]]) 05:09, 26 March 2019 (EDT)

== F1 Images ==
They're both virtually identical. I think we could do to delete one of them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:48, 12 October 2014 (EDT)

==The FAMAS in current news==
[[File:Ff636fe625b6220a2d0f6a70670071bc.jpg|thumb|none|700px|French soldiers (acting as UN Peacekeepers) in the Central African Republic after the overthrow of the president by rebels - March 25th, 2013]]

Check out the current FAMAS configuration in this News Photograph. This shot was in the news as of March 25th, 2013. Note: this is a news image and thus not an image for the IMFDB pages, but I thought it would be interesting to see. :) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] ([[User talk:MoviePropMaster2008|talk]]) 00:31, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

:France have F'd around with the FELIN compatible FAMAS so much at this point the number of variants is ridiculous. They had one based on the F1 with curved bipod legs, then the G1 with straight legs, a G2 one (STANAG mags) which had a metal guard around the bottom, then back to one with the FAMAS mags with a polymer guard around the bottom with a separate little guard around the front grip and curved bipod legs, then back to a STANAG mags one with straight bipod legs but without the front guard or the ribbed grenade barrel, and then finally this one with curved bipod legs and a proprietary mag well. I am probably missing variants as well, it seems like the development has been a bit of a rocky road to say the least. I also like the fact that it has all the integration and controls for the laser rangefinder, eyepiece sight and all that, and they just slap an EOTech on the top and call it a day. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:37, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

== Personal Discussion ==

I know this is a bit off-topic, but let's see a show of imaginary hands as to who has seen one of these in person. Here's mine: (I don't really know a good, concise way of drawing a hand with text, so just picture that I did). [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 22:22, 1 July 2016 (EDT)
:You'll likely see them, especially now, if you ever go to France. I took this near the Eiffel Tower: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43827259@N08/14563528133/in/dateposted/
:--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:02, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
:Yes, you can see them easily if you spend some time around urban France. But aren't the FAMAS rifles due to be replaced soon, given that they can't use NATO standard brass-cased 5.56mm ammunition and have a unique firing action unlike the ubiquitous M4A1 rifle? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 22:05, 4 July 2016 (EDT)
::I saw one on a trip a few years ago. We were going on a family trip across Europe, and one of the destinations was France (both to sightsee and to visit family). At one point, we visited Versailles, where we saw soldiers out front with FAMAS F1s. Oddly, at least one had no magazine loaded. Does anybody know why? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 16:02, 24 July 2016 (EDT)
:::Some military organisations that have a sort of police role do this on occasion, the logic being that it is safer than carrying around a loaded gun from an ND point of view, but also if the rifle is snatched or otherwise lost (e.g. the soldier leans it against the wall of a bathroom while taking a piss and forgets to pick it back up, which has happened) it doesn't have any ammunition in it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:15, 24 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::Thanks for the explanation; that makes some sense. Also, that reminds me of the one time a police officer left a rifle just lying on the trunk of his car, out in the open, while he wasn't around, and anybody could "borrow" (read: steal, sell to a crime syndicate, and use the money to fund their heroin addiction) it. I'm not sure what about that is most remarkable: the overall good will of people (in a major city, no less) for not stealing it, the officer's stupidity for leaving it there, or the department's stupidity for hiring such a person. See you later. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 01:02, 27 July 2016 (EDT)

==FÉLIN/Valorisé==
Granted, the FÉLIN and the Valorisé are different variants, as stated in the FAMAS FÉLIN section, but it appears that they are being confused in media where the weapon appears. What's with that? I think that the weapon shown in this website is actually the Valorisé, and not the FÉLIN. Any ideas? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 11:12, 9 February 2017 (EST)
:I think that the main reason it is so confusing is that there have been so many different prototypes and variants of the FAMAS (some of which share names whilst there are others that have multiple names) that it is incredibly hard to actually work out the family tree of this weapon. I think the reason that people tend to call the Valorisé the Félin is because the original model of the Félin looked a lot like this, as it didn't have the dual grips like it does now, it was more like a formal FAMAS with a control module attached to the bottom of the handguard wired to a scope on the rail. I think our Valorisé image is actually a photoshop or prototype, as I think it should have a G2 style smooth barrel, like the original Félin prototype as well. I believe that the current non-Félin rifle is actually called the Surbaissé rather than the Valorisé, as seen [http://abload.de/img/car106ftp4d.jpg here]. I do not know if this is just a name change (the new name makes more sense for its role), or if they are different variants. I think it is the latter as the front sight design has changed from the original rifle to the current issue one, however it may be that the name change happened after this variant was adopted, I'm not sure. Either way, I believe that it is wrong that we list the bottom image as a Surbaissé, as it has the dual Félin pistol grips. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:30, 9 February 2017 (EST)
::So in a nutshell, the page's section is a mess :P --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 05:16, 10 February 2017 (EST)
:::Well, at least it's reflecting the weapon itself, then :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:31, 4 April 2017 (EDT)
Late reply, but I found an image literally on Wikipedia ([https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Journ%C3%A9es_Nation_D%C3%A9fense,_2005 Here's also the whole gallery by the photo creator]) showing what appears to be the actual FELIN-used prototype FAMAS. The current description says that FELIN is distinct from Valorise (but did not mention Surbaisse at all), so I think this weapon (visually distinct from the Surbaisse and Valorise though closer to Surbaisse) should be what the description is actually pointing to. I think we should move Valorise out into a new section and maybe explain what Surbaisse actually is. For that matter, where did we even get the names from? --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 23:14, 3 April 2018 (EDT)

[http://www.cod-france.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21670&st=20 One more "source"]. Translation-wise, Surbaisse means lowered, and Valorise means enhanced.--[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 23:19, 3 April 2018 (EDT)

:That image is not a final production FELIN, it is one of the many prototypes. The definitive configuration of the production FELIN is the one on the main page, with the enclosed pair of polymer grips with the thumb controls on the front grip. Apart from that it all gets a bit tricky due to the fact that the French military seem to have called them different things at different times. The use of the "Surbaissé" terminology has been around for years and has been applied to a few different experimental FAMAS variants that have a rail rather than the carry handle. I believe that the "Valorisé" name applies specifically and only to the version that is essentially a FELIN without the front grip. Incidentally, this is different to the one on the main page as that one lacks the fixed front sight that a real Valorisé has. [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/5c/58/605c587f15a525ae52ee02211215f492.jpg Here] is an image of a real Valorisé showing that it has the same fixed front sight as on the FELIN. This version of the Valorisé is the one that has actually been issued and has seen service. The intent was to issue people in FELIN equipped units who did not require the full FELIN system with Valorisé rifles, but that plan is kind of irrelevant now as the whole lot are getting replaced with HKs. Regardless, I do not really know what to call the "FAMAS Valorisé" that is on the main page, I would probably say to call it a Surbaissé as I think that the only rifle that should actually be called a Valorisé is the final adopted rifle with the fixed front sight. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:25, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
::[http://data4.primeportal.net/armory/jean_thomas_rembert/famas_felin/images/famas_felin_01_of_23.jpg Here] is an additional image showing the in service versions of the FELIN and Valorisé side by side. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:27, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
::I found [http://narval34.free.fr/fiche_tech_famas.pdf this source] on [http://narval34.free.fr this website], which identifies Surbaissé as the one we've been calling "FAMAS Valorisé" and Valorisé as an even further modified form (which loosely resembles this FAMAS G2 FELIN thing circulating around the internet as an image). No idea if it is legit though. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 08:16, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
:::That Surbaissé is different to the one on the main page and is an earlier prototype. That one has a higher rail as they are still using a vertical charging handle and haven't gone to the ambidexterous sideways one yet. If that document is to believed (and I think it is, as it is from GIAT) it seems that the orginal intent was for the Surbaissé to be the core weapon (or perhaps just the main receiver component) from which the two other variants (FELIN and Valorisé) were made. This is not necessarily the case with the final guns though as they have different lower receivers as the HMI (Human Machine Interface, i.e. second grip) is built in rather than being a bolt on part. As the prototype on the main page could technically have the earlier HMI bolted on to it maybe it could be called a Surbaissé, but as it has the scope mounted maybe that makes it a prototype Valorisé. I don't really know, I could be misunderstanding it as my knowledge is filtered through a layer of Google Translate. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:40, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
Not really replying to anything, but I just want to add that [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FELIN-openphotonet_PICT6047.jpg this image] from 2006 shows a version of the FELIN FAMAS as it is transitioning from image 1 on main page to image 3, with short straight bipod legs and rails in the style of image 1, but has the front grip with controls, same as the one on image 3. --[[User:Wuzh|Wuzh]] ([[User talk:Wuzh|talk]]) 08:05, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
:There are even a couple of additional steps between that one and the final one. The problem with this program is that there are at least a dozen (probably more) different variants and prototypes associated with it, and they do not necessarily have a logical progression. For example, there were [http://firearmsworld.net/france/famas/f_es200401.jpg prototypes in 2004] that had the curved bipod legs, the short bit of rail on top ahead of the bipod, and an almost final sight rail design (still missing the front sight like the 2nd image on the main page) yet later prototypes seemingly then went backwards from here. I think part of the reason for this is that with FELIN the difficult part is not really the rifle, all that has to be is a rifle with a scope mount and a few buttons. The real tricky part is the thermal sight, the helmet sight and the computers. To me it seems like they were really just playing around with the rifle using whatever they had laying around whilst trying to get this other stuff working. For example the rifle you have linked to there actually seems to be a weird G2 with F1 furniture that they have just kind of cobbled a scope rail and second grip (note how rather than being and integral molded plastic part it is a metal part that is bolted onto a standard handguard with now superfluous finger grooves). The actual final guns are F1 based, but they seem to have used a lot of G2s for the prototypes as I assume this is what they had spare.--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:22, 5 April 2018 (EDT)

== How is it pronounced? ==

Is FAMAS pronounced FAH-MAHS or is it just said as EFF-AY-EM-AY-ES? -[[User:SeptemberJack|SeptemberJack]] ([[User talk:SeptemberJack|talk]]) 19:14, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
:Most of the people I've heard say "FAH-MAHS" (or, in a few cases, "EFF-AY-MASS"), so I think that that's the correct pronunciation, but I'm not 100% sure. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 19:31, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
::As far, as I know, French words pronounces mach differ from it's wrighting. For example, "Chassepot" pronounced as "Shasspou", "Nagant" as "Nagan", "Gras" as "Gra", "Gerard" as "Zherar", "Thomas" and "Dumas" as "Toma" and "Dyuma". So, FAMAS maybe pronounced as FAMA (or FAMAh). But, it's only my guess. [[User:Pyramid Silent|Pyramid Silent]] ([[User talk:Pyramid Silent|talk]]) 19:35, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
:::Well, the whole "drop the last consonant" thing is pretty common in the French language, but I don't think it works like that here, since it's an acronym. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 20:46, 16 May 2017 (EDT)
:::If Ian from Forgotten Weapons and Larry Vickers are correct, it's fah-MAHS. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:13, 16 May 2017 (EDT)

==Ian McCollum on the FAMAS G1/G2==
So, a few hours ago, Ian from Forgotten Weapons showed the FAMAS G2 in [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDDrB_1Sjuo this video]. From approximately 02:52 until 04:00, he talked about earlier G1, and mentioned that it used NATO-standard magazines (this is also stated in the relevant text in the video description and the FW article). This contradicts most sources saying that the G1 used the F1's proprietary 25-round magazines. What's the deal with this? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 11:46, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
:That must be a mistake or misspeak; he goes on to show how the magwells are dimensionally different anyway and STANAG magazines are too long to fit inside the proprietary magwell.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:21, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
::The rifles he compared were an F1 and a G2, not a G1 and a G2. Given how little info we have on the G1 (and how it only has 3 media appearances, none of which (if I understand correctly) show it being fired), I'm tempted to say that the gun we've been calling the G1 is just a developmental prototype that wasn't designated (or maybe it was; the Felin/Valorise/Surbaisse program shows that the French can make these things remarkably hard to understand), or possibly even an airsoft-only configuration. It makes sense that, if they were developing different aspects of the gun at different times, they might've had one gun to test the 1:9 barrel and/or altered receiver surfaces with the old mags, and another to test the new magwell with the old ammo. Truth be told, I'm not sure that we'll ever know for certain unless somebody in the French government feels like sharing some info. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 13:01, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
:::Um, I know that he was comparing an F1 and a G2 :P I was just saying that he brought up the G1 subject in the video. Anyway, for now it would probably come in handy for someone to ask him about the G1 discrepancy in the YT comment section; he's been replying to a few comments. EDIT: I noticed that someone did it a few minutes ago; we'll see if anything comes up. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 13:19, 27 May 2020 (EDT)
::::I found some helpful brochures regarding the matter ([http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/FAMAS/FAMAS_Brochure_G1_A.jpg 1], [http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/FAMAS/FAMAS_Brochure_G1_B.jpg 2], [http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/FAMAS/FAMAS_Brochure_G1_C.jpg 3]), from GIAT, according to the logo shown. They pretty much indicate that the G1 used 25-rounders, just like most sources say. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 12:24, 3 June 2020 (EDT)

== FAMAS Valorise/Felin barrel rifling twist? ==

Are there any official documentations/verification about these upgraded FAMASs' rifling twist? I am not sure if these rifles still have the original F1 twist, or have been changed to newer 1:9 like the G2 variants to be able to shoot SS109 rounds.

The only place I find where someone mentioned the rifling twists of these rifles is here http://regimentals.jugem.jp/?day=20120713 . I need to use translation to understand it.

The blog poster is a Japanese French foreign legion personal. He mentioned in the blog that these rifles had been changed to use NATO rounds. However, with only one source, it is hard to verify. Still better than no source of information though.

It will be good if someone can share more information about these rifles' rifling twist.

Talk:Payday 2

2021-01-03T11:33:45Z

Luisiuman1998519: /* Real world attachment section? */ new section

== Getting Started ==
Well I'm not the best at coding but I just wanted to get this page started. Anyone is free to help. --[[User:eelikay|eelikay]] 10:23, 2 August 2013 (CDT)
:Gimmie some time, I can get default screenshots for most every beta game. --[[User:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 00:34, 3 August 2013 (GMT)

==Not a Heat reference==

Just because the game has a 733, doesn't mean it's a reference to Heat. Also it isn't even using the curved 30 round magazine. It's like a badly rendered stretched 20 round mag like in COD Black Ops. Also Payday 2's 733 also has a modern M4 3rd gen stock and A2 rear sight while the 733 in Heat had a gen 2 stock and an A1 rear sight. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:17, 3 August 2013 (EDT)
:I guess they add the 20 round mag as a balancing thing. The stock and sight differences are odd, would that change the model? Also, I can't show you it yet, as the beta hasn't opened up that far, but it also seems like the game has the [[FN FNC]], if menu art is anything to go by. That is most certainly a Heat reference, and the developers have already stated it was an influence on the game. [[user:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 11:27, 3 August 2013 (GMT)
::It's really moot point since we're just robbing banks in a modern setting, so I'd use a more contemporary weapon than a design that's a bit dated. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:28, 3 August 2013 (EDT)

== The AUG is MASR STG ? ==

AUG's Magazine is not original. Do This Made MASR ? Assuming this is MASR made AUG ? - [[User:KINKI'boy|KINKI'boy]] ([[User talk:KINKI'boy|talk]]) 13:46, 3 August 2013 (JST)
:Looks like a Magpul PMAG, as for the rifle, it's not uncommon for game devs to model their guns off of airsoft or civilian versions of guns. So it could be a MASR STG instead of a true AUG, I don't know how to tell.--[[User:Crazycrankle|Crazycrankle]] ([[User talk:Crazycrankle|talk]]) 09:46, 3 August 2013 (EDT)
::Also the foregrip is the KAC vertical grip instead of the folding grip [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:29, 3 August 2013 (EDT)

== All beta weapons added ==

That's every single weapon from the beta capped, and added. [[user:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 17:27, 3 August 2013 (GMT)
:You can't access the P90 or HK416 in the beta? There are silhouettes for them on the second pages of primary and secondary weapons.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 17:28, 4 August 2013 (EDT)
::No, you can't. The level cap is 30. The only weapons not on the page are the FN FNC, at 33, the M16A2, at 39, A double barrel shotgun at 39, the P90 at 36, and the Deagle at 36. (Those are just guesses as to what they are. They might be slightly different once I see the 3D models. [[user:Dannysaysnoo|Dannysaysnoo]] 01:40, 4 August 2013 (GMT)

== Screenshots ==

I think we should use view mode for the majority of the screen shots. The models have more detail than thirdperson and you can see more of it than in first person
ex: http://imageshack.us/a/img203/7945/0tfc.jpg
(This is just a photo since I can't screenshot on a PS3 and don't have a computer version of the game)

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 17:31, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

== Weapon Variants ==

So I was thinking the gun customization in this game means a lot of guns have different variants that are worthy of article mention- here's what I've found:

CAR-4 (M4A1- furniture mods can turn it into a LR300.

UAR (AUG A2)- A3 forend mod.

M308 (M14)- Jae 100 chassis, the EBR chassis is already shown in the article.

Ak5- FNC handguard and Ak5C stock + forend, no ability to give it a proper "C" carbine barrel though.

AMR-16 (M16A4)- can get the A1 handguard.

Compact 5 (MP5)- the MP5K can be unlocked for use in addition to being used in the Sentry gun.
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 13:53, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

This ist LR 300 ??
[[File:Payday2 lr300 previu 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Lr300 ???]]
--[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] ([[User talk:Mateogala|talk]]) 14:17, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

:I agree with mentioning this in the main article. I have also found that the Colt Model 733 is turned into a Colt Model 933 if attaching an optical sight. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] ([[User talk:RaNgeR|talk]]) 14:37, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

==Finish==

Article finished. Make any other screenshots? --[[User:Mateogala|MTOOO]] ([[User talk:Mateogala|talk]]) 11:01, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

== Anyone know what rifle this is? ==

[[File:Payday2SR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

This is the picture from the sniper asset you can buy on Watchdogs day 2. Anyone know what rifle he's carrying? Looks like a Remington 700 variant, but I'm having trouble identifying the specific model.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 12:09, 12 October 2013 (EDT)

== DLC weapons ==

A DLC has been released including 3 new guns and in two days another DLC will release adding yet another 3 new guns. So if anyone feels inclined to properly identify the real life models and add screenshots, I would appreciate it. I would do so myself but having played the game all my guns are heavily customized at this point.

Armored Transport DLC includes a SIG 551-A1 SBR (From what I can tell, might be a different model), a Walther PPK and a Carl Gustav M/45 sub machine gun (Which is erroneously stated to be .45 cal on the DLC page).

http://www.overkillsoftware.com/armoredtransport/

The DLC to be released will include a FN SCAR-H, a HK MP7 and a handgun I can't identify.

http://www.overkillsoftware.com/gageweaponpack01/

- [[User:Mutant1988|Mutant1988]] ([[User talk:Mutant1988|talk]])

The unidentified handgun seems to be a Sig Sauer P226.

I've started uploading screenshots of the weapons in the first DLC. Won't be uploading any for the second pack, as I have no intent of buying it right now. Would appreciate it if someone wrote some
descriptions and correctly identify the Sig Sauer model. - [[User:Mutant1988|Mutant1988]] ([[User talk:Mutant1988|talk]])

I got both DLCs so I'll upload the screencap a when I get the chance. [[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 11:46, 28 December 2013 (EST)

The most recent update (Death Wish) added a new difficulty and in that difficulty, we have two more weapons featured in the hands of NPCs (The guns are currently unavailable to players). The guns being the HK UMP and the Benelli M4 (Which seems to be based on the H2O model, but with a solid instead of a telescoping stock). Both seen featured here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8CMPB03-pw&feature=player_detailpage#t=45 - [[User:Mutant1988|Mutant1988]] ([[User talk:Mutant1988|talk]])

Another DLC pack incoming - 3 sniper rifles to add to the arsenal, all featured in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNs9yQcc5ew

Pictures and in-game names are scheduled to be revealed tomorrow. So far though, I've identified one of them as a Barret M95. [[User:Mutant1988|Mutant1988]] ([[User talk:Mutant1988|talk]])
:Looks like the other two are the Blaser R93 LRS2 and a Remington 700 with verious chassis mods (wooden M40A5 and MSR, it looks like). Barret seems weirdly semi auto.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:24, 6 May 2014 (EDT)
"Barret seems weirdly semi auto.". Well, it is a video game bolt action rifle. I think the limited FOV cuts off the actual bolt operation animation. If you look closely, you can see that the right hand isn't holding the grip after shooting (At about 26,5s in the video). --[[User:Mutant1988|Mutant1988]] ([[User talk:Mutant1988|talk]]) 20:53, 6 May 2014 (EDT)

I am very lazy. I apologize for that. Anyway, I uploaded inventory screenshots of the shotguns from the "Gage Shotgun Pack" DLC. --[[User:Mutant1988|Mutant1988]] ([[User talk:Mutant1988|talk]]) 03:13, 4 September 2014 (EDT)

== MP5A2/A3/KN? ==

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the presence of a burst fire option in the selector make them MP5A4, A5, SD5, SD6 and KA4 respectively? --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 15:15, 8 June 2014 (EDT)
:Actually the texture is kinda goofed, the selector has no Safe option, it doesn't have a crossed out white bullet pictogram, instead it has a white Semi pictogram, so technically it has no Safe mode, it just has Semi/Burst/Auto. :\ [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 00:24, 4 July 2014 (EDT)
[[File:PAYDAY2 weird MP5 fire selector.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

== Missed lots of guns, MP7, and FAL's pic, three new shotguns DLC which include Benelli M4 , STRIKER12, and KSG, anyone wants to work with me? ==

I m newbie, so don't know too much about it.....

== FN FNC ==

The "Belgian Heat" handguard changes the AK5 to a FNC. Could someone in possession of the mod add it on please?

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 22:14, 21 August 2014 (EDT)

== PSG-1 from Modded G3? ==

I have noticed that modding Gewehr 3 with DMR Kit, Precision foregrip, grip and stock will create a gun that heavily resembles H&K PSG-1, should it be included in the list?
and if so, under what category should it be in?, since the ridle is not a proper sniper rifle in game so to speak

Here's the said rifle:
[[File:2014-10-05 00001.jpg|800px|thumb|none|alt text]]

--[[User:Pyronite|Pyronite]] ([[User talk:Pyronite|talk]]) 00:50, 5 October 2014 (EDT)

It looks like [[Heckler & Koch SR9TC]].
[[File:HKSR9TC.jpg|600px|thumb|none|H&K SR9(TC) rifle with tropical forearm and bipod - 7.62x51mm. The TC version has the PSG buttstock as well as the trigger pack.]]
--[[User:Seganamcofan|Seganamcofan]] ([[User talk:Seganamcofan|talk]]) 10:40, 5 October 2014 (EDT)

It actually uses the original PSG-1 parts so it's not a SR9TC, even though, I'd say it's more a hybrid than other. --[[User:James Dalcan|James Dalcan]]

:That gun is a total mongrel, it is no real G3 variant. Firstly, there is a paddle mag release which rules out the SR9 and PSG-1. The combination of a front sight post and the PSG style handguard might suggest an MSG90A1, however it has a plain barrel, the trigger pack is the original metal type rather than the polymer Navy type used on the MSG90, and the rear sight is a normal diopter rather than the one used on the MSG90. Technically, I would say that it is a G3 fitted with a PSG-1 handguard, butt and trigger shoe, and a plain heavy barrel (it is not the normal PSG-1 one though, it is too short). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 20:27, 5 October 2014 (EDT)

::That is exactly what it is in game, it's essentially G3 modded with PSG-1 parts (possible in reality or not aside), now the question is that is it worth mentioning somewhere in the main article or not, even as Modded variant and another gun itself. --[[User:Pyronite|Pyronite]] ([[User talk:Pyronite|talk]]) 21:27, 5 October 2014 (EDT)

== John Wick DLC ==

OVERKILL released a new DLC based on [[John Wick]], which added John as a playable character, a Glock 26, three new accessories for the pistols, two new grips for the Glocks, and the ability the dual wield the Glock 26, the Operator, the Beretta 92 (a shout-out to Matrix, perhaps?) and the Desert Eagle.

They added another weapon, a SPAS 12, with it's own sets of mods and all.

== Gage Historic Pack DLC ==

OVERKILL is making a new weapon pack full of WWII era weapons. The weapons are, at least by my guess, to be a MG42, a Mauser C96, either a Sten gun or a Sterling, and a sniper version of the Mosin-Nagant. So apparently with the purchase of the pack, you get to murder cops with an 100 year old handgun. ([[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]])
: http://overkillsoftware.com/gagehistoricalpack/ [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:18, 11 November 2014 (EST)

Well, I was close, the weapons in it are an MG42, named the Buzzsaw 42, a Sterling, named the Pratchett L2A1, the C96 is named the Broomstick, and the Mosin 91/30 is named the Mosin-Nagant. Even so, you get to murder cops with WWII-era weaponry. ([[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]])

== Chicago Typewriter ==

A M1928 was added the game to celebrate two million people joining the PAYDAY Steam Group.

http://www.overkillsoftware.com/2million/

Still haven't unlocked any mods since they're dropped in the Payday instead of being unlocked via achievements, but still, it's pretty neat. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 21:22, 4 December 2014 (EST)

== L85 is upcoming , in Clover Character Dlc ==

http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/thediamond/

== The Bomb Heists DLC Weapons ==
The HS Produkt VHS-2 and HS Produkt HS2000 40SW model is added on The Bomb Heists DLC. Its named "Lion’s Roar rifle" and "LEO pistol". --[[User:Seganamcofan|Seganamcofan]]

It's an Springfield Armory XD<sup>M</sup>, actually. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 03:22, 26 January 2015 (EST)

== XDM/HS2000 ==

I'm a bit perplexed by the XDM, since it has the serrations of a XDM, and yet they still went out of their way to label it HS. It appears that Springfield just markets the HS2000 in the US, everything is still manufactured in Croatia. Is there an international version of the XDM that HS sells? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 23:03, 1 February 2015 (EST)

== Why do the images have the weapons' actual names in quotes? ==

It seems kind of weird having image descriptions that state things like; 'The player holds the "Brügger & Thomet TP9-US".' despite the fact that those are the actual names of the weapons. Wouldn't it be more fitting to say; 'The player holds the "CMP".', or at least remove the quotes? The way that it's set up just really bothers me.
--[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 00:38, 2 February 2015 (EST)
:It's standard practice to include the name of the actual weapon, and there's nothing wrong with having the alias in quotes. I see nothing wrong here. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 07:11, 2 February 2015 (EST)
:: Well, I gotta admit seeing the quoted weapon name on almost every in-game thumbnail does look a bit annoying, not to mention a wee bit redundant perhaps. But as said, there's nothing actually wrong with it. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 13:04, 2 February 2015 (EST)
::Oh, you mean in the captions. Yes, that's a bit annoying. I wouldn't object if someone took them out. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:44, 2 February 2015 (EST)
:::I think it's an artifact of Mateogala not really speaking English, he puts the in-game weapon name in quotes I guess because he saw a page where that was done with a fictional or hybrid weapon. If anyone's doing a find / replace for that, could they also swap "player" for "player character?" That one always bugs me, the player isn't the guy in the game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:55, 2 February 2015 (EST)
::::Yeah, I was referring to the captions, should've been a bit more concise. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, it's just ever so slightly bothersome to me personally. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 22:18, 3 February 2015 (EST)

== We are getting a Minigun and AT4 ==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWpeEe6qxHc But one thing confuse me is in the video, it shows an AT4, but in store page, the introduction says it's RPG.

== We are going to get a MAC 11 ==

http://media.overkillsoftware.com/2015/02/hlm2_jacket_gun_screen.png

Unlock it through purchase Hotline Miami 2 digital pack on March 10.

It's a MAC 11, right?

Looks more like a Cobray M11/9. [[User:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|Hi, My Name Is GameZone]] ([[User talk:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|talk]]) 18:07, 25 February 2015 (EST)

== OVERKILL DLC ==

The weapons have been announced for the DLC. They are a handheld M134 Minigun and an RPG-7. This is gonna be fun. [[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 12:29, 6 March 2015 (EST)

== M134 Barrels ==

The article mentions that they don't move, but they actually do, at least with the short and Vulcan-esque barrels. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 09:21, 7 March 2015 (EST)

Okay, I just checked, the default and Aerial Assault barrel definitely move, but I'm still not sure about the short ones, I have no money in game at the moment, so I can't check right now. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 09:40, 7 March 2015 (EST)

I just read a lot of people saying they didn't spin on the forums and reddit, I didn't actually check myself. I just watched a video and they were spinning in first person, so maybe they just don't spin in 3rd person or maybe those people were wrong. [[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 14:25, 7 March 2015 (EST)

After some testing, I managed to find out that if your game is running at 30, 60 or 120 FPS the barrels appear to not rotate due to the monitor not being able to actually register the spin before it refreshes. In 45, 50, 75, and 135 the barrel jumps around, but some rotation can be seen. So in conclusion, yeah, they do spin. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 01:01, 8 March 2015 (EST)

Do you know if the 3rd person model spins as well? [[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 14:44, 8 March 2015 (EDT)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hS6h4NTd3w&feature=youtu.be --[[User:Mateogala|Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr]] ([[User talk:Mateogala|talk]]) 17:26, 8 March 2015 (EDT)

:I have a feeling this might be the same optical illusion that causes car wheels to stop spinning or rotate backwards: if the barrels are in the same position every time the screen refreshes, the minigun will appear to not be turning even though it actually is. The reason it appears to be totally stopped is the lack of motion blur on them, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 17:33, 8 March 2015 (EDT)

:: If I knew how to record at around 600-1200 FPS (Which can be done) I could make a video showing the barrels rotating. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 01:00, 9 March 2015 (EDT)

I've seen videos of first person showing them spinning (I don't have enough to buy the weapon myself yet.) What I'm asking is if the 3rd person model spins as well. Payday 2 (like lots of games) has separate models for first person and 3rd person, the 3rd person models are significantly lower quality and the animations for them are less precise (look at this mod that replaced the 3rd person models with the 1st person ones to see https://steamcommunity.com/app/218620/discussions/15/558754900072790886). The only person I saw using the minigun ingame only had it for a few seconds and I didn't get a chance to see if the barrels spun in 3rd person. Regardless I removed the part about them not spinning, but may add a note if they don't spin in 3rd person. [[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 13:16, 9 March 2015 (EDT)

==P30L?==
I'm thinking of buying this game since it's on sale on Steam (along with it's ludicrous amount of DLC). BUT, didn't Overkill really add H&K P30Ls with the John Wick update? I was kinda hoping I'd see them in the game. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 08:10, 10 March 2015 (EDT)

They added a Glock 26 (Chimano Compact) with John Wick as his signature gun. [[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 10:03, 10 March 2015 (EDT)

There isn't a P30L in the game, but there are pistols in the game that you can mod to look similar to it, like the USP (Interceptor .45 in game) with either the Facepunch Compensator or the Match slide, the Signature .40 (SIG P226) modified with the Facepunch compensator also looks similar, then the Chimano Custom (Glock 22C) kinda sorta but not really looks like it with the Facepunch again. But your best bet would be the Interceptor .45[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 22:34, 12 March 2015 (EDT)

:I got the game a couple of days ago. I'm fine with the USP Expert, but they are not the same as P30Ls. Oh, and I've never been a fan of modifying my weapons in games, and I haven't modified the Expert yet. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 04:53, 13 March 2015 (EDT)

::Modifying most of your guns to be useful is a pretty key feature in PayDay 2. Most of the weapons are not at their highest capability stock, and some of them are even detrimental as so. It does suck at times, because you often have to make your gun look ridiculously stupid in order for it to be useful, but that's just the way the game works. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 06:49, 13 March 2015 (EDT)

:::I know, right. I've played the first one, which honestly felt a bit frustrating at times (partially because every enemy took almost 15+ rounds to kill depending on the weapon), and the Payday 2 beta. This one is less frustrating. I'm currently using the SCAR-H and the Expert, or the 1911, 'cause they take only a couple of shots to kill the enemies (well, cops, let's be honest) even without any modifications. --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 07:31, 13 March 2015 (EDT)

== New Over-Under Shotgun ==

[[File:PD2-OU-Side.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
[[File:PD2-OU-Front.jpg|thumb|500px|none]]

Introduced with (free) Bonnie character pack March 13th. A 12 Gauge Over-Under. Anyone know what kind? I think a Beretta, but not sure.[[User:S3anyBoy|S3anyBoy]] ([[User talk:S3anyBoy|talk]]) 20:28, 16 March 2015 (EDT)

:Beretta 682 Gold E. [[User:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|Hi, My Name Is GameZone]] ([[User talk:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|talk]]) 20:53, 16 March 2015 (EDT)

Looks like a Beretta S3 O/U and CZ Redhead Deluxe O/U hybrid so I added it as such. [[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 01:39, 19 March 2015 (EDT)

== Butcher Mod pack ==

There's new mods for most of the old weapons (And a stealth mod for the saw, thank God), the new lower reciever for the AUG turns it into a EF88, the CQC barrel for the Ak 5 turns it to an Ak 5c and I haven't bought them yet, but there's mods for both the MP5 (An straight magazine that rechambers it to 10mm), and a barrel jacket and suppressor for the P90. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 18:04, 19 March 2015 (EDT)
<gallery widths="300px" heights="169px">
File:Payday_2_EF88_left.jpg|Left side.
File:Payday_2_EF88_right.jpg|Right side.
</gallery>
Oh, and Big Boss' M1911's suppressor for Metal Gear Solid 3 was added. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 18:16, 19 March 2015 (EDT)

== AA12, M32 grenade launcher is coming soon ==

http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/bbq/

Don't know what the Flamethrower is, looks cool

In the very articulate words of Hiimdaisy's rendition of Yosuke from Persona 4: "Dude, dude, dude, duuude[...]" Also, the flamethrower is a prop made by the special effects artist of the studio where Overkill recorded this and the Overkill Pack trailer. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 01:17, 27 March 2015 (EDT)

== Animation update ==

Not only did they add new animations for practically everything, the P90, G36, AUG and the Expert Mag have bullets that are removed when you fire them. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 18:52, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

== Butchers Western Pack & Butchers BBQ Pack ==

"Make your bullets count with the Peacemaker .45 Revolver where six bullets is enough to see six helmets fly. For those who need a few bullets more there is the Repeater 1874 Sniper Rifle. The Plainsrider Bow if you need no bullets at all. An arrow kills and doesn't make a sound. Unless you attach a pack of dynamite to it, which you can. The dynamite also comes as a throwable so you don't need to go through the potential hassle of having a bow. Ride off into the sunset with four new masks, patterns and achievements. Giddy up!"

The revolver appears to be the Colt Single Action Army and the lever action rifle appears to be based on the Winchester Model 1894.

"• Piglet Grenade Launcher, 12G Steakout Shotgun
• Did we mention the Flamethrower Mk.1"

The Piglet Grenade Launcher is the M32 MGL, the Steakout 12G is the AA-12 (though the Ithica Stakeout would have been more suitable, no?) and the

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 03:30, 9 May 2015 (EDT)

--flamethrower is entirely fictional. Based off of the prop used in the BBQ Pack trailer. And the rifle is actually based on the [[Winchester Model 1873]]. [[User:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|Hi, My Name Is GameZone]] ([[User talk:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|talk]]) 18:00, 9 May 2015 (EDT)

== Alesso heist ==

So far, there's only one weapon added, a Mateba 2006 which, probably intentionally, is called Matever, like in the English translation of Ghost in the Shell. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 22:37, 20 May 2015 (EDT)

== My word this is a huge article ==

There's room to pack it down. Given the unholy assload of guns and variants and combinations that's not going to get any shorter, I think it'd be a good idea to arrange the guns not in absolute alphabetical order, but rather ordered, bunched and combined according to the game's own lists - the article for [[Far Cry 2]] already shows it works. The screenshots can also show off and tell much more with a way smaller amount of images, not to mention cutting out the HUD crap and bringing them up to date with the animation overhaul.

I've redone the AMCAR (Colt Model 733) and AK5 (Bofors Ak 5, FN Herstal FNC) sections in the way I mean, although I'd still double-stack all those thumbnails. Let me know if this doesn't fly. --[[User:AVK|AVK]] ([[User talk:AVK|talk]]) 16:38, 16 June 2015 (EDT)

:While a change like that would be drastic, maybe removing all those screenshots and sub-articles about guns (like how the Mosin-Nagant can be modified into the carbine and sniper version) and just have "here is gun X" a few screenshots of that gun, and then some text saying "Gun X can be modified into gun Y and Z" Doing that would save a lot of space and time.

::I think you're right, blowing up the main index can wait and see. I don't know how austere you're aiming for with the subtypes, though. There's tons of trivia and other stuff to tell and the subtypes/showcase of minor mods can all be packed into the screenshots showing off the unique stuff like reloads and sight pictures. The AK5 pileup is a good indicator of what I'm going for (and I mean to stay the course for now), but that can always be stripped down further if it's still too heavy a read. --[[User:AVK|AVK]]

::: I also think we should remove the "modified versions of {gun modified to look like a variant of the gun)", because, Jesus Christ, it's already modified. [[User:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|Hi, My Name Is GameZone]] ([[User talk:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|talk]]) 14:24, 17 June 2015 (EDT)

::::What you did with the Ak5 was really good AVK. Maybe the entire article should be restructured in that style? I'm not the one to decided but it would be a good idea.
:::::I don't really see why having a long page is that big of an issue if there indeed that many guns in the game. Unless users are having issues loading the page, and AFAIK no one is, then there's no point worrying about it. And why would the FNC be under the Ak5? Isn't the Ak5 a variant of the FNC and not the other way around? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 17:55, 17 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::: The Ak5 is the base weapon unlocked in game, which can be modified into a suedoFNC with attachments. I think the page should be cleaned up in the above manner.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:12, 17 June 2015 (EDT)
::::::: If I can put my two cents into this, I like the way that AVK has structured the AK5 and AMCAR sections, it is both nice to read, injects some humor into the page and is much more nicer than having ten pictures per entry detailing everything about the weapon. I say restructure the article. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 19:48, 17 June 2015 (EST)
::::::::Lose the right justification on the weapon image. We don't have that anywhere else on the site, and there's no reason to start now. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 20:02, 17 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::::::It's an exception, but so is the bizarre imaginary halfbreed end result itself - hence it being listed after all the relevant Ak 5 stuff. The placement follows the game's logic and considering the spiritual status of the gun (major role in Heat), it doesn't deserve to be smooshed down into a sidenote in the captions either. It may be a breach of order, but I think that's the way it makes the most sense. --[[User:AVK|AVK]] ([[User talk:AVK|talk]]) 13:53, 18 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::::::Wait no you were talking about the formatting. Works for me. --[[User:AVK|AVK]]

== New guns in yet another DLC pack. ==

Alright, two new DLC'ssss came out yesterday (date: 25-6-15) The gold grin casino heist adds this new gun called the Cavity 9mm (referencing The Dentist contractor in game)
<gallery widths="300px" heights="169px">
File:Cavity 9mm payday2.jpeg
File:Cavity 9mm ditto payday2.jpg
</gallery>

So what is this gun based of? I think it might be a Kel-Tec weapon but im not sure.

Also the AS Val (i think, correct me if im wrong) was added with the Sokol character DLC. Sokol is some russian hockey dude. Really, the gun is what im hear for. It is possible to modify the gun with a wooden stock similar to the sniper variant of the weapon.
<gallery widths="300px" heights="169px">
File:AS val rightside PD2.jpg
File:AS Val leftside PD2.jpg
</gallery>

Give me the proper names for the guns and i'll put it up on the PD2 article.
:It's Kel-tec Sub2000, and another user already added it yesterday. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:50, 26 June 2015 (EDT)
::Well that was quick. But the other gun, is it a AS val?
:::Yes, it is an AS Val, can be modded to resemble the VSS Vintorez. [[User:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|Hi, My Name Is GameZone]] ([[User talk:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|talk]]) 17:02, 26 June 2015 (EDT)
::::Alright.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:11, 26 June 2015 (EDT)

== Reformatting ==

This page REALLY needs someone to reformat it. It has around 3 different formatting styles on it as well as an abundance of links and some empty entries. As I said earlier with this topic, I think we should let AVK reformat and redo this page. His additions are really good, rather funny and would cut the size of the article down by quite a substantial bit as it would eliminate all the seperate sections for guns that only exist if you mod one of the base weapons. (The Mosin Nagant section is a prime example of that). I know my word doesn't mean much in the eyes of the higher-ups, but I'm being real here, this page NEEDS reformatting. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 02:07, 7 July 2015 (EST)
:I agree, excuse my language here but this page is a real clusterf**k. As you mentioned with the Nagant, sure you can modify the weapon so it looks like some other variant of it, but it is still the same weapon with slightly different stats. Someone (i assume AVK) reformatted the CAR-4 page so instead of having a billion entries, it now just shows the basic M4A1, which is much better.

:What we should do here is either just have a few pictures of the basic gun, and then point out in text and not additional sections or even more pictures, it should something like "X gun can be modified to look like the X1A4 version" Either that or just have something like 4 pictures (one form the menu, in game idle and 2 for reloading) and with each picture have the gun in a different setup, kinda like how the AK5 entry is like now.

:I personally think we should straight up delete some entries that are superfluous. Also, one last note, a few entries here are outdated, im going to delete some pictures here and there (beginning with the Socom 16) and replace the pictures with the up to date ones--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:57, 19 August 2015 (EDT)

== Gage Ninja Pack ==

Now that everyone's favorite money hoarding gun launderer is back, Overkill added a new weapon pack to the game, titled the Ninja Pack.
http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/ninjapack/
Obviously, it's based on melee, poisonous and throwing weapons, but there's already three projectile weapons confirmed, a crossbow, an TDI Vector, and a WA-2000, which I'm assuming it's a reference to Hitman 2, where the ninja snipers used customized versions of it.

Also, a semiautomatic sniper rifle, freaking finally. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 17:15, 14 July 2015 (EDT)

:Unless they decide to portray it as a bolt-action rifle for consistency. [[User:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|Hi, My Name Is GameZone]] ([[User talk:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|talk]]) 18:24, 14 July 2015 (EDT)

::The trailer made it seem like it was semiauto, albeit firing ''very'' slowly, although faster than the other sniper rifles. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 23:56, 14 July 2015 (EDT)

I finally got the DLC, and to be honest? I think it's bugged. The Crossbow has two arm options that do exactly the same thing, and two grip options, where one is inherently better than the other because one gives you +1 concelament, and the other, well, doesn't. The WA-2000 has three grips, (One ivory, one ebony, and one walnut), but the ivory and walnut one do the exact same thing, which is giving a +3 in stability, but a -3 in concealment. Maybe OVERKILL wanted to make the players be able to choose between those, I'm not sure.

The KRISS, however, is pretty much a sidegrade to Jacket's Piece, a bit more damage and accuracy for lower stability. It even has exclusive attachments that do the exact same thing as JP's ones do.

Overall, though, a very fun addition to the game. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 01:48, 18 July 2015 (EDT)

== Deleting unnecessary entries ==

As anyone who visited this page now, it has a ''ton'' of entries, many of which are just superfluous. For example, the MP5 in the game can indeed be modified to look like a bunch of different MP5's, but it's still the same gun but with different stats, so the additional entries are just excessive. So what im proposing is that someone (me, for example) delete all these additional entries for guns that have way to many of em', like the MP5, FAL, P90, AA-12 etc. Then i will just have one entry for each gun and within that entry showing the different versions with pictures or mentioning them in text.

Although before i start doing any of this, i must ask if i can just straight up delete entries. Can i just do that or will the ban hammer fall?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:47, 20 August 2015 (EDT)

:Bear in mind, that we catalogue the appearances of different guns. It is irrelevant whether in the game universe it is simply a "Compact-5" fitted with a "Ninja Foregrip" and the "Adjustable Stock", in actuality the game model is that of an MP5SD6 so in my opinion it should be listed as such. I think there is an argument to be made for collecting together the firearms that are built from the same gun, like the AK5 section currently is, but I think that any real gun that is built by modifying a base gun should be properly listed. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:41, 20 August 2015 (EDT)

::That's is what im proposing however, collect the entries into one instead of having a whole slew of different ones, delete the additional entries and mash em' all together.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 10:04, 21 August 2015 (EDT)

== More DLC means more guns ==

So a new character pack was just announced (here's the trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A1Zb_HX-6g) Gun wise we're gonna get a Micro Uzi. So that's cool. No pictures of it yet however, but if the outline of it in the trailer is to be believed then it has the stock unfolded it seems--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 13:04, 20 August 2015 (EDT)

== SWAT van turret ==

[[File:SWAT van turret PD2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Anyone know what this gun is? Looks like some type of Browning thing.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 20:01, 2 September 2015 (EDT)

:M2 Browning. [[User:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|Hi, My Name Is GameZone]] ([[User talk:Hi, My Name Is GameZone|talk]]) 20:17, 2 September 2015 (EDT)

::Deep--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:55, 3 September 2015 (EDT)

:::Added an entry and used that screenshot. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 00:13, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

== New machine gun (M240?) ==

So on Crimefest day 5 they added a new machine gun (for free!) called the KSP 58. Now, it seems to be a M240, but the name and the stampings made me wonder if it is actually the machine gun used by the swedish army (which is still an M240 but :/) The name KSP might be a short for Kulspruta (machinegun in swedish) and i recognize that 58 designation from somewhere.
[[File:PD2 M240 left.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:PD2 M240 right.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:PD2 M240 stampings.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

If you look closely at the markings one of them says Svea Rike (a fancier way of saying sweden in swedish) Mind you, stampings aren't always true to life in Payday 2, as evident on this very weapon where it says it was manufactured by Snusk (filth) manufacturing.

Anyhow, what i wonder is what this weapon is called by the swedish military.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:14, 20 October 2015 (EDT)
:It is called the "Ksp 58" by the Swedish military, google it. The original Belgian designation is FN MAG58,too.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 13:24, 20 October 2015 (EDT)
::Alright then, too bad i don't use google :/--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 13:51, 20 October 2015 (EDT)
: I believe it's an M240 with an FN MAG stock, as it has a picatinny rail on the receiver, a feature (to my knowledge) that is not on the FN MAG. [[User:Majorcamo|Majorcamo]] ([[User talk:Majorcamo|talk]]) 19:14, 22 October 2015 (EDT)
::It seems to be a mix between an M240, FN MAG and the KSP58. But im not to sure.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:40, 23 October 2015 (EDT)

== Point break heist (!) ==

Apparently Overkill is gonna promote the Point Break remake nobody asked for with a new heist in Payday 2. (Here's the [http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/pointbreak/ minisite] and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rCtAFwx5ak trailer])

Along with it comes this new gun (and some sniper rifle with the new character, can be a Remington 700 but it's hard to tell)
[[File:PD2 newgun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

What's the name of that gun? Isn't it some modernized CZ?

And to answer the question you didn't ask, i'll buy all of it.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:28, 1 December 2015 (EST)

:Looks like a modern Jericho 941 variant --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 17:29, 1 December 2015 (EST)
::I looked it up and it actually seems to be just that!--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:48, 1 December 2015 (EST)
:::Interestingly I got a chance to shoot that same Jericho in .45 not that long ago. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 18:30, 1 December 2015 (EST)
[[File:PD2 newgun sniper.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
Here's the new rifle they're adding with the free character pack. No idea what it's supposed to look like. Here's the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKo8fFv7x5E trailer]--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:09, 2 December 2015 (EST)
:Going by the name and the shape of the front of the foregrip, I want to say it's a [[Winchester Model 70]], but with the trigger guard and magazine slightly projecting from the bottom like that I'm not so sure. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 18:08, 2 December 2015 (EST)
::Here's a real fancy [https://sketchfab.com/models/d7872f33b73d42239b55569f9a5c1ab1 render] of it. --[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:24, 2 December 2015 (EST)
:::Anyhow, it might be a M70, since that gun was in Point Break, albeit briefly.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:25, 2 December 2015 (EST)
:::Yeah, I don't know a whole lot about bolt-action rifles beyond the history of use for a handful of models, but after getting a good look at that render and noticing the safety lever behind the bolt handle, I'm convinced it's a Model 70 with FN's [http://www.midwayusa.com/product/932445/fnh-tbm-trigger-guard-and-detachable-box-magazine-fn-spr-pbr-tsr-winchester-model-70-short-action-with-5-round-and-10-round-magazine Tactical Box Magazine adapter]. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 19:38, 2 December 2015 (EST)
:Tacticool for all operators...Anyhow, thanks for the help!--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 19:49, 2 December 2015 (EST)
::I wouldn't really say a detachable box magazine is tacicool, but yeah it is a Winchester Model 70 with a FN Tactical Box Magazine adapter. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 20:42, 2 December 2015 (EST)
:::It has tactical in its name so it has to be!--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 20:49, 2 December 2015 (EST)

== About the 1911 LO's 10 round mag ==

Mind you, im no expert on this, but according to the page, the 10 round capacity is wrong, however, the magazine clearly has an extended base plate, would that allow for 10 rounds? Additionally the extended magazine mode for the weapon, is called 12rnd mag although its in-game capacity is 16 rounds, but according to the page the actual capacity of that mag is 10 rounds, is that true?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:01, 28 December 2015 (EST)

== Organizing ==

Unless anyone objects, im planning on reorganizing this page so weapons are shown more in order, for example, the entry for the sniper riles is a bit of a mess, showing the last unlocked sniper first and the nagant in the middle and so forth.

Also they added a full size ithaca 37 shotgun in the latest DLC, screens incoming.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:07, 14 January 2016 (EST)

:It's already in alphabetical order, so I personally don't think it should be reorganizing. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 07:14, 15 January 2016 (EST)
::Should it be in alphabetical order or in order of appearance?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:01, 15 January 2016 (EST)
::: I've always preferred ordering by appearance/prominence; alphabetical listings seem rather arbitrary unless the weapons have all relatively equal showcasing. That said, a bigger thing for me would be condensing and splitting some sections, mainly splitting the handguns into pistols and revolvers and the combined rifles section into separate Assault Rifles/Carbines and other (Battle) rifles sections. Also need to check where some weapons are listed - The TEC-9 is in the handguns section but really should be in the SMG section (we generally categorize machine pistols with SMGs on pages, even semiautomatic-only ones that fit the 'legal' definition of a pistol - we don't regard that in terms of classification). Likewise also put the minigun in the machine gun section (should omit 'light' from it, since that's a bit too specific and some of the MGs in there may not be considered 'light' MGs, it's argumentative, better to be more general and inclusive in that regard). [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] ([[User talk:StanTheMan|talk]]) 14:06, 15 January 2016 (EST)
::::Sounds like a good idea, should i start doing sections like that? Or will the admins just undo it?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:24, 15 January 2016 (EST)

== Wolf Pack ==

The ride never ends with DLC. The Wolf Pack has been announced and is gonna be released on 2/11. Free for whoever bought the original Wolf Pack for PAYDAY: The Heist. It has two new "Classic" heists, which are remakes of "Counterfeit" and "Undercover". Also is a new grenade launcher, which is a China Lake, as if the Piglet wasn't enough. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]], 9 February 2016 (EST)
:More DLC for me to buy, yey.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 13:30, 9 February 2016 (EST)

== Revenge of the Reformatting 4: Return of the Reloaded Resurrection ==

Alright, so I've been doing some thinking on how to reformat this damn page. There has been a whole lot of words but a lack of action, so here's what I'm purposing.

'''First:''' Split the categorizes so we have individual sections for AR's and BR's to give the page more breathing room.

'''Second:''' Put the guns in order of the level you unlock them at. With the pistols for example, the section should begin with the Glock 17, the first pistol unlocked, and end with the last pistol unlocked. the Desert Eagle. Then after the base game guns, we go with the community weapons in the order they were added. Lastly we go with the (paid) DLC pistols in the order they were added.

'''Third:''' Mark the community weapons with this (*) and the DLC weapons with (**). The other way around could work too.

Unless someone objects and think we should have the page in the clustertruck state it is in right now, I'll go ahead and start changing it.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 11:19, 12 February 2016 (EST)

:Go nuts. I would attempt to update this page, but it's so elaborate and convoluted it makes my eye hurts. It took me around 1-2 hours to sort out Darkest of Days and that was only text editing. So this is just a project to end all projects. That's what we get for having 4-5 different editing styles on one page. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 13:16, 12 February 2016 (EST)
::Alright, I'll get to it. Probably gonna start with the pistols.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 13:57, 12 February 2016 (EST)

== About adding screenshots of modified versions ==

I have dropped that habit and i recommend to any future contributors that aren't me to NOT add pics of modified versions either.

However, if it is possible to mod a weapon into some different variant of the same weapon, like how it is possible to make the AKMS an AKM, the FAL an DSA SA58, the USP Tactical an USP Match etc etc, then i recommend adding pics of said additional variants. But don't fill up this page with even more screenshots than necessary of some mallninja abomination.
:Hear, hear, please continue with your work here.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 19:18, 18 March 2016 (EDT)
::I will, don't worry. There's a LOT to do but I'm working on it.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 19:36, 18 March 2016 (EDT)

== Another movie DLC collaboration ==

...and this time it's for the movie Hardcore Henry. Here's the [http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/hardcorehenry-trailer/ site] with the stuff. The guns added this time looks like those SR-2 Veresk subguns. They can be dual wielded.

Also, Sharlto Copley is voice acting his character, which is cool, unlike the John Wick DLC.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:25, 30 March 2016 (EDT)
:FOOKIN' P̶R̶A̶W̶N̶S̶ PIGS. Also, apparently "Heather" is what Veresk translates to in English.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:50, 30 March 2016 (EDT)
::Part 2 was released today and they added the Kalashnikov Concern PL-14 Lebedev prototype pistol. Gonna add a rough draft on the page. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 15:30, 31 March 2016 (EDT)
:::Nice work Wolf, leave the screenshots to me if you don't mind. Also, the copy and paste stats could possibliy be placeholder stats, we'll see.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:58, 31 March 2016 (EDT)
::::Regardless, it's a badass, almost sci-fi looking Russian pistol. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 23:31, 31 March 2016 (EDT)
:::::It's cool alright. Nice to see the russians are developing more modern weapons.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:34, 1 April 2016 (EDT)
::::::It looks kind of ridiculous when you're using the Prototype Barrel and a muzzle brake, though, since you have a compensator on top of another compensator. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 23:20, 2 June 2016 (EDT)

== New Stuff ==

So now that OVERKILL has freed PAYDAY away from 505, they've released Update 100 in an attempt to appease the angry masses. Besides changes to the safe system, they added a free version of the M67 known as the HEF Grenade. It's the same as the standard model, except it's painted black with generic grenade text and their logo stuck on the pin. They also updated the sentry guns, so now instead of a MP5K briefcase with a bunch of generic technical junk in it, it's now a FN P90 in a more home-made looking set up. They even added suppressed versions for some reason. --[[User:PaperCake|PaperCake]] 13:44. 3 June 2016 (EST)
:Yeah i saw that stuff yesterday. The suppressed turret has a smaller chance to be targeted by enemies, making it less likely to be exploded.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:08, 3 June 2016 (EDT)

== DLC, DLC never changes. ==

MOAR GUNS!! We got a M1887 and some CZ 805 BREN variant incoming.

Here's the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvJaX70QwzM trailer] for the new guns. Ron Pearlman in it for some reason.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 21:41, 12 June 2016 (EDT)
:Can anyone identify this exact 805 model?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:04, 15 June 2016 (EDT)
[[File:PD2 CZ805 misc1.jpg|thumb|400px|none|It's categorized as an SMG for some reason.]]

::Ron Perlman apparently voices the Biker character, since he was Clay Morrow and all... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 17:08, 15 June 2016 (EDT)
:::It was a joke. Back to the point, the rifle, which model?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:29, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
::::If I were to hazard a guess, it looks like the CZ 805 BREN A2 model. --[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 13:57, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::Do anyone have any good pics of the A2 model lying around? I can't find any. (yes i know there's a pic of the A2 model here on the site but that's the carbine version)--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:05, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::That should be a base 805, the A2 refers to the carbine version. There is a newer CZ807 if that is what you're thinking (it has a waffle patter magwell and different stock.)--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 01:56, 17 June 2016 (EDT)
So they don't have different "generations" of the 805, glock style?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 08:08, 17 June 2016 (EDT)
:It's just this but with CZ's STANAG compatible magwell. [[File:CZ805BRENA1 adjustablestock.jpg|none|500px|thumb|CZ 805 BREN A1 with newer adjustable stock - 5.56x45mm NATO]] [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 03:42, 20 June 2016 (EDT)
:That model lacks the mag release buttons however.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:38, 20 June 2016 (EDT)
::It's still the same gun, it just doesn't have a STANAG magwell installed. I couldn't find a image that matched that configuration. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 00:55, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
::This image has the magwell, but the finish and flash hider are wrong. http://www.armadninoviny.cz/domains/0023-armadninoviny_cz/useruploads/files/c4.jpg [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 01:05, 21 June 2016 (EDT)

== New Safehouse ==

Looks like Chains might be [http://i.imgur.com/fno7IQX.jpg thinking of getting the gang a new shotgun]. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 22:37, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:It's a [[Pancor Jackhammer]], I really hope we're not getting the shotgun that was produced in more numbers in video games than the two that were ever made in real life again. What is this Overkill? The early 2000's? (I could say the same about DICE and the "DAO-12" in BF3.) [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 08:53, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
::Maybe the Payday Gang has a mission where they kidnap Ian McCollum to get access to "forgotten weapons."--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 09:11, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
:::Maybe they 3D print all those rare-ass guns with that thing from KF2.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:15, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
Either I wasn't paying very much attention over the last two weeks, or [http://i.imgur.com/AbZmFYa.jpg Chains put up another new blueprint after the party ended]. Looks like a COP .357 Derringer, specifically an image from the patent filing available on Wikipedia, same as the one for the Jackhammer above. Dunno if that's saying anything about what we could get in the future, considering we saw the Jackhammer picture then ended up with a Six12 - and, as mentioned, I have no idea when the COP blueprint actually showed up in the safehouse. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 22:27, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
:[[File:Payday2derringer.jpg|thumb|none|600px]] Here's a screen of it, I uploaded this before I read through this thread again, ah well....
:also, anyone else notice the rear MBUIS looks really wonky?--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:05, 4 November 2016 (EDT)
::Might be cuz you use mods, or maybe not...--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:43, 4 November 2016 (EDT)
:::It's like that too on the KSG.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:54, 5 November 2016 (EDT)

== John Wick Weapon Pack DLC ==

Latest Weapons DLC got [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7qssrNuMOs released]. From the trailer, I noticed a SRS-A1, a pistol of sorts (Might be a .45, but I'm thinking a USP), and the UMP-45.--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 14:29, 18 October 2016 (EDT)
:It's his compensated P30, which actually is already in the game (Wick can be seen shooting it in the new shooting range).--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:02, 18 October 2016 (EDT)
::The weapons included were apparently leaked some time ago, and yeah, the pack is going to include the SRS, P30L, and UMP45. Personally, I'm really happy to finally have a UMP. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 23:18, 18 October 2016 (EDT)
:::Same. Now lets see how long it'll take for them to bring this update to Xbox One and PS4 *chuckles* --[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 23:22, 18 October 2016 (EDT)
Imma buy it with funds i've gotten from selling those retarded safes.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 05:45, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
:Alright shits, here's the [http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/jwweaponpack/ website] showing of the guns in more detail.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:24, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
::Nice sexy guns, only gripe is that the UMP45 doesn't hold 25 but eh, at least the P30 holds 15 and isn't another Desert Eagle clone. [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] ([[User talk:Mr. Wolf|talk]]) 15:21, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
Can't say im a big fan of the low ammo pools. You're gonna go through the ammo on that UMP in a sec. Still, gotta say that the weapon models (atleast for later guns) in this game are really slick.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:18, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
:::On another note, police snipers have also been updated to use a scoped G3 that looks like it's trying to be a MSG90.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 17:14, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
Gonna take a closer look at that, thanks for the heads up.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:06, 19 October 2016 (EDT)
:[http://i.imgur.com/4zIGw0J.jpg I grabbed my own shot a couple days ago]. I figure one of you are going to get your own picture for it, though - are NPC weapons supposed to be that low-detail? [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 22:27, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
::Your screenshot is pretty good so we might as well use it. And yes, NPC weapons are that low res, no way to change it, aside from mods perhaps...--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 03:01, 24 October 2016 (EDT)

:::Another heads up with snipers, the snipers in Boiling point carry SVDs, and one can be found in Chains' armory. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 21:24, 27 October 2016 (EDT)
Yeah, i've seen that, gotta get some screens.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 11:31, 28 October 2016 (EDT)

== FAL question ==

Is the config of the FAL below just some random custom thing using various aftermarket parts or is it something sold as a finished product? I only managed to find one image of a real FAL in a similar configuration.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 13:03, 3 November 2016 (EDT)
[[File:PD2 FAL misc1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[File:FAL whatisthis.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
:I think DSA made a FAL that looked like that, called a "Precision FAL" or something like that (the handguard definitely looks like a DSA free-float tube). It is slightly different though, DSA made Precision FALs that I have seen tend to have the adjustable rear sight and a heavy barrel with no muzzle device, whereas the game gun has the flip rear sight and a flash hider. My guess is that they were going for a Precision FAL, but these parts are left over from the fact they just modified the standard model rather than building one from scratch. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 14:28, 3 November 2016 (EDT)
::Thanks for the info!--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:03, 3 November 2016 (EDT)

== Gage Spec Ops Pack DLC ==

Ah, more [http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/specops/ DLC]. Shockingly, it only comes with one new weapon: The Arbiter which appears to be the Heckler & Koch XM-25 that's missing its scope.--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 19:23, 24 November 2016 (EST)
:Guess who's buying more DLC.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 05:42, 25 November 2016 (EST)
::Just got me mits on it. It's kinda cool. Haven't gotten the XM25 yet, requires you to hunt for stuff.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 10:24, 25 November 2016 (EST)
:::Speed pull mag is causing some waves, as for most, its a pure upgrade with no downsides, with only the quadstacks being worth to take besides them, also there still isn't a free GL, which kinda sucks. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 23:29, 25 November 2016 (EST)
:::EDIT: Oh, big change, cop flashbangs are now actually objects and not just a effect. I think they are just the concussion grenades but I can't really tell, got to run on lowest setting to get decent frames so its a blur. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 23:33, 25 November 2016 (EST)
I can't say i ever pay any attention to the PD2 community, im just here to shoot things mindlessly for an hour or two then leave. And yes, i've seen those new grenades. The model is the same as the player usable flashbang.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:29, 26 November 2016 (EST)

== Scarface DLC ==

More [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRBvuUDPtS8 DLC] on the way, this time called Scarface. From the description, looks like we are getting a Chainsaw, a Rocket Launcher called the Commando 101 (I'm thinking this will be the M202 Flash), a new character and his signature weapon, the 'Little Friend' which will probably be the Colt AR-15. --[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 18:13, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:Fucking hell, more DLC to buy...--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:21, 13 December 2016 (EST)
::At least it's not as bad as Train Simulator 2017 ($6,000 worth). --[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 18:27, 13 December 2016 (EST)
:::Little Friend is suspected to be the M203 Underslung GL. Code for it has been dug up a while ago. I'd also find it really redundant to add the AR-15, when the M16 is one of the van ilia guns in the game. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:17, 13 December 2016 (EST)
And there's two packs, goddamn. Well, i'll buy it as always. Wish imfdb was paying me for wasting my time on this.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 04:13, 14 December 2016 (EST)
:One of the new guns is the [https://sketchfab.com/models/0b5eb195d58a48878315e458099f2d0b "Little Friend 7.62 Rifle"]. Looks like it's an HK417 with a fixed stock and an attached M203. Considering what I've read regarding limitations in the engine regarding animations and attachments, I guess that's going to be exclusive to this one gun for now. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 17:07, 14 December 2016 (EST)
::Whoa, that looks sick! Actually looking forward to this now.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:37, 14 December 2016 (EST)
:::Well, assuming its stats are on par with the SCAR-H, thats going to be a beast of a rifle. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:07, 14 December 2016 (EST)
::::You're right, the stats given on the site are pretty close matches for the SCAR-H. Main difference is twice the damage in return for only two full mags' worth of ammo and slightly lesser concealment (although I'm expecting it to take CAR/AMR attachments that can boost that higher than the SCAR can). [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 20:29, 14 December 2016 (EST)
::::You've really gotta appreciate the detail they give these things - the thing's even got finger print marks visible over the dust on the receiver. Do have to wonder why they picked a fixed M16 stock as the default for the gun, though. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 06:44, 15 December 2016 (EST)
I assume it has that stock to give it more of an M16 appearance. And yeah, the detail on the weapon is really good, Overkill has gotten better and better at making weapon models and animations.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 08:00, 15 December 2016 (EST)
:The Commando weapon is indeed the Flash. I'll get to adding entries and screenshots in a couple of hours...--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 06:08, 16 December 2016 (EST)
::Doing superb work AAAK. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 07:57, 16 December 2016 (EST)

== John Wick heists DLC ==

Here's the [http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/johnwickheists/ website]. The new rifle is some kind of AR-10, looks like it's styled similarly to the Taran Tactical rifle in the movie.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 17:19, 7 February 2017 (EST)
[[File:PD2 AR10thingithink.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Here's the rifle.]]
Soooo, what could this rifle be?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:54, 8 February 2017 (EST)
:My best guess so far is a [https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-10-308-win-optic-ready Smith & Wesson M&P10]. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 05:25, 9 February 2017 (EST)
::This gun has a VLTOR MUR upper, which I do not believe exists for AR-10 type rifles, so my guess is that this is just a TTI TR-1 that has had the lower bubba'd to turn it into a sort of .308. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:50, 9 February 2017 (EST)
:::So it's some sort of frankengun? Alright.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 06:09, 9 February 2017 (EST)
::::Quite a strange idea to name the rifle, as [[Smith & Wesson Model 10|more famous revolver]]. --[[User:Slon95|Slon95]] ([[User talk:Slon95|talk]]) 07:31, 9 February 2017 (EST)
:::::First image I saw of a TR-1 looked almost exactly like the in-game weapon, and the "CL-3" written on the receiver in that sketchfab preview does look like it could be a fake name for a TR-1, so I'd have to agree they probably based it on that. Just to note, though, another look around did show me [http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/AddaxSPR20.jpg~original a custom .308 AR with a VLTOR MUR upper] (combined with a JD Machine lower, even has the exact sort of curve to the bottom of the trigger guard), so I suppose it's at least possible that they could have based the weapon on an actual .308 AR rather than just taking a .223 one and shoving a .308 mag into it. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 17:59, 10 February 2017 (EST)
::::::That rifle is a .223, not a .308. To quote from [http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=518252 the source] it is a "Custom Addax 20" 5.56 Upper with Fluted Addax-BHW Polygonal 1:8 twist barrel, VLTOR MUR Upper receiver, mounted to a customers JD Machine Lower." Also, just to add the trigger guard is a removable changeable part on most lowers so that can't really be used for an ID. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:40, 10 February 2017 (EST)
:::::::Weird, I could have sworn it said that one was a .308 when I found it. Guess that's what I get for expecting Google to show me results with the words I looked for being anywhere near each other for once in its damned life. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 18:52, 10 February 2017 (EST)
Does anyone know what that AFG thing is called? Also, not sure where to put the entry for this rifle, should it be under sniper rifles or ARs?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 08:00, 9 February 2017 (EST)
:The AFG looks like a Strike Industries Cobra grip.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 00:13, 10 February 2017 (EST)
::It lacks the wings that wrap up the side, so to me it is closer to an Extreme Arms Tactical or a Veriforce angled grip. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:15, 10 February 2017 (EST)
This might help you guys out: https://sketchfab.com/models/14ba40fe71474270ae08d9ec4bd7a963 --[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 00:22, 10 February 2017 (EST)
:That's a dead link for me. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:15, 10 February 2017 (EST)
::It was due to his signature not being separated from the link; I fixed it. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:34, 10 February 2017 (EST)
:::Kind of late, but I looked at the now not-dead link and zoomed in on the rounds in the magazine, which revealed 2 things: they have struck primers, and they're marked "7.62X39 WINCHESTNUT", which, aside from showing the wrong caliber marking, has got to be one of the most hilarious copyright dodges I've heard in a while. [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 21:05, 12 April 2018 (EDT)

== Holy f***ing s**t! ==

Yet another DLC pack is out that has the latest variant of the AK 12, an SVD and that wonky AK SMG thing--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 13:27, 23 March 2017 (EDT)
:Mostly liking the idea of it, but I'll have to check what attachments are available for them before I make any solid decision (especially since I've got friends who want me to get ''[[Day of Infamy]]'' instead). PP-19 and especially an SVD would be fun to play with regardless, but unless it gets a decent selection of unique mods and/or can be concealed better than the others, I'm not seeing much point to another AK variant when we've already got three or four that can be modified for just about any situation. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 23:25, 23 March 2017 (EDT)

== New revolver ==
Looks like there's yet another new Heister, Sangres, who comes with dual Dan Wesson PPCs. Thankfully, this one is supposed to be free.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 13:55, 4 May 2017 (EDT)
:Nice to have a Model 29, it's surprisingly rare in video games considering its fame. Really fun to use here, too, although I do wish it had a few more unique attachments. Maybe a Competitor barrel from the 629; not that Overkill particularly cared about redundancy considering both grip options for it cost the same and do the same thing, but maybe that could have had a lesser accuracy bonus in favor of boosting stability a bit more. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 21:15, 6 May 2017 (EDT)

== Another WWII weapon pack ==

Seems we've got a set of side jobs to progressively unlock a new set of weapons, in recognition of the RAID: World War II closed beta or something to that effect. Ten kills with new punch-daggers everybody gets unlocks a Luger, fifty kills with that unlocks an MP40, and a hundred kills with ''that'' finishes off with a Garand. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 16:58, 31 August 2017 (EDT)

== Locke and Load new weaponry ==

The new update that came out today added a Saiga-12 on a Center Balanced Systems bullpup chassis as a secondary weapon, and an akimbo version as a primary.
http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/lockeandload/
It's pretty damn good, but you need to invest on the shotgun damage perks, as it only does 18 damage. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 20:36, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
*And now they added what seems like a Springfield EMP. I say "seems like", because it has the same damage as the PPK, it's DAO, and has a 17 round magazine. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 17:00, 25 October 2017 (EDT)

== about the new gun ==

wow can't believe overkill made this mistake on a 1911! DOA? Really?
*It may have been a Para-Ordnance at some point, but they either got lazy, or couldn't get it too look different enough for them not to get a cease and desist. --[[User:Yocapo32|yocapo32]] ([[User talk:Yocapo32|talk]]) 00:50, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
**It's a Colt Defender. If the name hasn't been big enough of a giveaway, the flat-faced slide and large "flush" barrel bushing should be clear indicators. The DAO hammer was a modeling mistake and was fixed in the latest patch.[[User:Shiro Okami|Shiro Okami]] ([[User talk:Shiro Okami|talk]]) 15:23, 26 October 2017 (EDT)

==MP5==
Due to the fact that some months ago (in January-February, I believe) MP5's texture was updated, isn't it technically an MP5A2 and its derivatives with Navy-style trigger group now? (Strangely colored semi-auto setting was replaced by a proper though now incorrectly placed safe setting. Similarly, burst setting is now a proper though incorrectly placed semi-auto setting) [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 20:30, 12 April 2018 (EDT)

== Page too cluttered ==

There are way too many pictures and the "akimbo" sections add nothing. The page is full enough due to the extensive list of firearms, IMO it needs a serious clean up --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 17:06, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

== Real world counterparts of attachments ==

hey Everyone, this is my first topic at IMFDB and id like to ask the real world counterpart of the following attachments, as im helping with a ''real weapons names'' mod

Jungle Ninja Suppressor
Standart Suppressor
IPSC Compensator
asepsis suppressor
the bigger the better suppressor

id appreciate any help
:They all just look generic to me, not necessarily based on anything real. The IPSC is a real shooting organisation however so I imagine that probably is the real name, might be a specific model though. Also remember to sign your posts by pressing the pen icon in the top left of this box. Sorry I couldn't be more descriptive --[[User:Slemke1998|Slemke1998]] ([[User talk:Slemke1998|talk]]) 22:12, 8 July 2018 (EDT)
:Jungle Ninja suppressor is based on the suppressor for custom M1911 from Metal Gear Solid 3. I don't think it is based on anything real. I don't know anything about others, sorry. [[User:Lunar Watcher|Lunar Watcher]] ([[User talk:Lunar Watcher|talk]]) 22:55, 8 July 2018 (EDT)

== New weapon. ==

So, a new weapon was added recently. The old fictional flamethrower had its name changed to the "Mk. 1 Flamethrower", and a second, nearly-identical-but-free weapon called the "MA-17 Flamethrower" was added. The "MA-17", manufactured by the "Modestly Awesome" company, is rather obviously based on the Boring Company's Not A Flamethrower - the update page is even titled "Definitely A Flamethrower". My question is: should we include it? We generally include flamethrowers if they're real, but this is an odd case, in that it's a real flamethrower, made by a real company, that's also explicitly referred to as not being a flamethrower, and is less a flamethrower and more an oversized propane torch. Any ideas? [[User:Pyr0m4n14c|Pyr0m4n14c]] ([[User talk:Pyr0m4n14c|talk]]) 19:34, 20 July 2018 (EDT)

== New machine pistols ==

Suddenly, more DLC. Most important for our purposes, of course, is the Federales Weapon Pack, which looks to add a Beretta 93R (including Auto 9 parts as an attachment, from what I can see), some variety of CZ 75 Auto (looks like it's at least got the frame of the P-09), and a Stechkin. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] ([[User talk:Kadorhal|talk]]) 13:40, 27 February 2020 (EST)
:I've laid the groundwork. Just bought the DLC, I'll be taking and uploading the screenshots tonight or sometime tomorrow, but feel free to do it instead if you have them.[[User:Shiro Okami|Shiro Okami]] ([[User talk:Shiro Okami|talk]]) 07:51, 28 February 2020 (EST)

== Real world attachment section? ==

There are many attachments, or mods, in the game. It will be worthwhile to add a section dedicated to ID those attachments here, especially mods that are shared among different weapons, like optics, muzzle attachment, AR15 magazines, AK magazine.

A good starting point will be the Payday 2 fandom page. There people have identified quite a lot of real world counterparts of those mods.

There is also an outdated game mod by DeadMansChest on GitHub https://github.com/DeadMansChest/Real-Weapon-Mod-Names/blob/master/mods/Real%20Weapon%20Mod%20Names/lua/post/realnames.lua

It has ID a huge amount of weapon mod. You need to look at those LUA code though.

File:John wick 2 catacombs mp5.jpg

2020-03-26T19:47:54Z

Luisiuman1998519: Luisiuman1998519 uploaded a new version of "File:John wick 2 catacombs mp5.jpg": Better cropped snapshot, borders better removed

The silhouette of an MP5 with a collapsible stock inside the catacombs.

Talk:John Wick: Chapter 2

2020-03-26T17:52:53Z

Luisiuman1998519: /* MP5 and possibly other weapons in catacombs */

SO MUCH YES --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 21:24, 6 October 2016 (EDT)
:I KNOW!!! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:43, 7 October 2016 (EDT)
::The hype is real!--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 20:44, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:::And then there's me: I think the film looks generic.--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 21:17, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
::::It really is, but it's not how original a story can be. The best thing you can do to a generic type of character is to have pretty good acting and for us here, awesome gun play and John Wick is awesome at the gun play. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:59, 12 October 2016 (EDT)
So, any special reason he's using some fancy Glock and AR-15 from a company no one has heard of? Why not give him his old P30 and HK416 back? Why do armorers keep buying overpriced Glocks with fancy aftermarket parts?--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 23:35, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:::Taran Tactical isn't an unknown company. It might not be as famous or infamous as Salient, but it's known enough in some circles. They also trained Will Smith for Suicide Squad. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:11, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure Keanu Reeves trained with them for the movie.--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:35, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
::I've heard somewhere that Keanu Reeves has some sort of share in Taran Tactical. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:12, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
:[https://www.facebook.com/TaranTactical/videos/1129178030434266/ Yep]. They even had a [https://www.facebook.com/TaranTactical/posts/1291057160913018 contest perfect for us].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:39, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
::Here's the same [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpr8oqyjKIc video]on youtube for those who loathe facebook. Anyway, i think those tacticooled glocks sorta fit in a silly movie like John Wick. Then again, the only other movies where i've ever seen these types of pimped guns are the Transformers movies and 13 hours.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:23, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
:::It makes a sort of sense in a way of people of expensive groups will buy expensive things, including guns if need be. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 09:59, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
::: One of the unseen henchmen on the poster (on the right) appears to be holding a P30L with the same compensator from the first film. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 11:00, 9 October 2016 (EDT)

Here's another vid of him training with Aaron Cohen, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RKISkjMtPU [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:00, 12 October 2016 (EDT)

==Poster Weapons==
[[Image:JohnWick2 cover.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The film's first official poster features several firearms: a sawed-off [[Remington 870]], a [[Heckler & Koch P30L]] (fitted with the same compensator from the [[John Wick|first film]]), a [[Beretta 92FS]], two [[Beretta 92FS Inox]]es, two [[Beretta 90Two]]s, and several customized [[Colt M1911]] variants (one of which is obviously a replica with a visible parting line).]]

== Please help ID ==

Please help ID this launcher. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 14:30, 19 December 2016 (EST)
[[File:JW2 304.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:JW2 305.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
::Looks like an [[ARWEN 37]] to me.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 15:09, 19 December 2016 (EST)
::: It was definitely an ARWEN 37, even got to see the loading process. --[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 07:39, 13 February 2017 (EST)

== Glock ==
Looks like the Glock that was used in this film is currently on display at SHOT Show:
https://scontent.fdet1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15977767_10154301140996134_2975412249705260393_n.jpg?oh=e720456e623db93a6644ca3c46a432c9&oe=591FE97A

[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 12:05, 19 January 2017 (EST)
:Cool--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:38, 19 January 2017 (EST)
::Apparently he's also carrying a Taran Glock 26 too, if Glock themselves are to be [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/26/glock-movies-shot-2017/ believed.]--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 10:07, 27 January 2017 (EST)

:There's a short clip ad of the scene where John Wick talks to the gun guy about what gun recommendations. He suggested a Glock 34, a Glock 26 as well as an "AR-15" and Benelli M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:57, 27 January 2017 (EST)
::Got a link to that clip?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 11:36, 27 January 2017 (EST)
::I've been trying to look for it, but it only appears as an ad every time I watch a Youtube vid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:28, 27 January 2017 (EST)

Nevermind. Found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgxWQADcWXI [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:29, 27 January 2017 (EST)
:That's neat. I guess all those guns have some Taran tactical thing going on with them...--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:18, 27 January 2017 (EST)

== Armory ==

[[File:JW2Armory1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:JW2Armory2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Grabbed a couple more shots of the armory from the trailer. Does anyone know what the rifles that are hanging horizontally are? I can't place them, and it's bugging me.
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 11:45, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:Beretta AR70/90?--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:16, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:: Yep, seems like a AR70/90--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] ([[User talk:Flavio|talk]]) 13:56, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:::Looks like the 90 to be specific.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:31, 3 February 2017 (EST)

: In Picture #1 I see several Glock 17s on the top shelf and what looks like a Glock 17L on the very far right. The shelf below that has a compact SIG P220 series handgun (not sure which), a VP9, and two empty spots which is likely where John got his two Glocks below. The one below that has two Beretta 92 handguns, and another that I can't identify (looked ''kind of'' like a compact Walther P99 or Springfield XD but I don't think it is.) The bottom shelf is mostly unidentifiable but the one on the furthest right looks kind of like a HK Mark 23 to me. Leaning against that shelf is an M79. The right most shelf has more Glock 17s, two two-tone SIG-Sauer P226s, and a Beretta 93R. There's another 93R and a Px4 on the one below that.
: In Picture #2 I see MP5Ks, two of which have compensators attached and several Uzis/Mini-Uzis. To the right of those are a bunch of MP5s, some of which have Surefire lights installed. Can't identify the shotguns, sadly.
--[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 21:02, 3 February 2017 (EST)
::There's also a Beretta PM12 in between the MP5Ks and Uzis. Most of the guns on the bottom are hard to ID, but there's a couple of obvious M4/M16 variants.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 10:58, 5 February 2017 (EST)
:::Two of those tall shotguns are Benelli M4s, and it looks like there are two SG553s behind them, in addition to regular Beretta AR 70s.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 11:47, 5 February 2017 (EST)

== Just saw it ==

So let me start by saying that if you're a fan of the first, chances are you'll love this one, I did. The action was beautifully choreographed and shot, and the world of the continental was expanded upon really well. Now for the guns I saw. Bear with me because the movie moved really fast and a lot of guns were used, but this is what I remember.

-HK P30L - Same gun from the first movie, used by John in the opening fight briefly. Later seen buried under John's floor.

-Kel-Tech KSG - Seen briefly being buried underneath John's floor in the beginning.

-Coharie Arms CA-415 - Buried alongside the KSG and another gun I couldn't identify.

-Glock 26 - Also seen alongside the P30L being buried.

-ARWEN 37 - Used by Santino in the beginning of the film. Portrayed as an explosive grenade launcher.

-Glock 34 - Main sidearm used by John in Rome, Had either the TTI or Salient modification. It was specifically referred to as the Glock 34 by "The Sommelier" (armorer). He also mentioned it's Austrian roots as well as the German roots of the P30.

-Glock 27 - Also used by John in Rome. Also provided by The Sommelier. It may have been a Glock 26 but I seem to remember him calling it the 27, I could be wrong though. Used in a fistfight with Cassien.

-Benelli M4 - Also used by John in Rome. Also provided by The Sommelier. Referred to by name and it's Italian roots are directly mentioned.

-TTI TR-1 - Final weapon used by John in Rome (I believe). Once again, provided by The Sommelier. He refers to it as an AR-15, and the specifications of it's attachments were mentioned but unfortunately I cannot remember them. Also appears to be used by Ares men in the final battle

-Kimber Warrior - Used by John as well as countless other assassins including Ares ([[Ruby Rose]]). Seen in both suppressed and unsuppressed modes, both of which are used by John. The Bowery King ([[Laurence Fishburne]]) provides one to John before the climax. He specifically refers to it as a "Kimber 1911" and also mentions it's seven round capacity, which also annoys John. The final gun John handles in the film.

-Grey Glock? - Used by Cassien ([[Common]]) while pursuing John through New York. Appeared to be a grey Colored Glock with a matching grey suppressor. Could be a custom gun or could be something entirely different, I didn't get a clear look at it.

-Various handguns - Used by multiple assassins attempting to kill John in New York. Appeared to be an assortment of Glocks, Kimbers, and HKs in suppressed and unsuppressed forms. Didn't get a clear view of them. John procures many of them from the assassins he kills throughout.

-Beretta Cheetah - Appeared to be used by one of The Bowery King's men who saves John. Seen suppressed. Also used, unsuppressed, by Santino D'Antonio ([[Riccardo Scamarcio]])

-Bowery King arsenal - Various weapons, many the same as seen earlier in the film, however I did notice what appeared to be an RPG-7 in one of the racks.

-Glock 17 - Carried by nearly all of Santino's men. Multiple are used by John in the finale, with him procuring a new one every time he runs out of ammo in the previous one.

-Sig SG 550 and 552 - Used by Ares' men in the finale. Some appeared to lack rear iron sights.

Thats about it. Cassien used a handgun during his fight with John in Rome, but I never got a clear view of it. Also in the finale Ares's men used a collection of AR-15s and I believe a few SMGs. I couldn't quite tell what models the SMGs were, however they appeared to be HKs and also lacked rear iron sights, though I could just be rememebering the Sigs and imagining that they used SMGs (Quite likely to be honest, It was a late showing and I'm fairly tired). I'm sure I missed several guns, as like I said this was a gun heavy movie, however i will comment that many of the same models appeared repeatedly, probably props being reused. Both The Bowery King and The Sommelier had large arsenals with numerous guns I was unable to Identify. Sorry for missing some things, the movie moved at a breakneck pace and I didn't always have time to appreciate the action on screen and notice what guns we're being used.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|One shot is all it takes.]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 05:09, 10 February 2017 (EST)
:The Sommelier mentions that Wick's AR-15 has a Trijicon Accupoint, but I don't remember him specifying the exact model. Also, regarding The Sommeliers arsenal, I believe the rifles in the background are Beretta AR70/90's.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 17:43, 13 February 2017 (EST)

I just saw it and I am pretty sure Cassien's grey glock was actually an Arsenal Strike One, It had a distinctive step down forward of the ejection port. You get a short but clear view of it when Cassien does an ammo check in the subway shootout. --[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 14:34, 12 February 2017 (EST)

We also need a photo of TTI's Glock 34 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:23, 14 February 2017 (EST)

:They showed them off at the SHOT Show
:TTI Glock 34
:http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/20170117_124643-600x537.jpg
:TTI Glock 26
:http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/20170117_124607-600x341.jpg
Also there was a picture (cut away drawing?) of a H&K MG4 with a G36 Hensoldt AG Sight/carrying handle in Laurence Fishburne's office.
:--[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 15:40, 15 February 2017 (EST)

The 1911 that Ares uses is a S&W 1911 either a PD or an SC model I'm leaning towards a PD full size. Also the gun John uses at the very end seems to be some kind of Kimber with a custom compensator. [[User:Serpico1911|Serpico1911]] ([[User talk:Serpico1911|talk]] 03:38, 15 February 2017 (CST)
:Finally got to see it. To think they weren't going to show this movie in sweden! Thank god they did! It blew my dick off! Liked alot of things in it, but one thing that stood out to me was that i've never seen an action movie like this were the main character reloads as often as he does. Also, don't know if this is the case, but i watched this with a friend and he counted that in the Museum scene (when Wick is switching between guns left and right) he only shot the various pistols he picked up ten times before they ran out.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:07, 24 February 2017 (EST)
::Just saw it too, my jaw hit the floor when Keanu did the [[Killing Floor 2]] style ''one-handed'' brass check on a 1911 before entering the hall of mirrors towards the end.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 01:31, 25 February 2017 (EST)
:::The only other movie ive seen someone do that style of brass check before is The way of the gun. Can't think of any movie where someone brass checked guns as often as this one--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:28, 25 February 2017 (EST)
::::Only movies that come to mind for brass checking is pretty much anything by Michael Mann, particularly Heat, but not as much as this film. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 18:29, 25 February 2017 (EST)

I'd say that Ares's pistol is a SW1911SC variant. I say this because we get a good look at the slide a few times, and it has the particular slide serrations of the SC series of SW1911's. It also seemed to have a black slide, but a stainless steel frame, but I could be wrong, saw the film last night. Loved it.--[[User:Bauer2121|Bauer2121]] ([[User talk:Bauer2121|talk]]) 13:05, 26 February 2017 (EST)

== 1911s ==

I'm pretty sure that the 1911 used by Ares is a S&W. I remember in one shot you could clearly see the extractor and the fish scale type serrations. I can't recall exactly what happened, but after John beats Ares to a pulp, he takes her 1911, but later when he's at the continental and shoots that guy with it, the 1911 he used is some variant with a compensator. Unless she was carrying two different 1911s, this might be a continuity error.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:19, 2 March 2017 (EST)

Your right. I remember watching this a second time that Ares had a suppressor on hers and clearly no compensator so...either a deleted scene or he just got a completely different 1911. I remember he frisked Ares for a spare mag and reloaded it since it was empty but when he used it at the Continental, it locked back, meaning he had fired all but one round so...I think there must be a deleted scene involved or something or just bad continuity, which is surprising for a movie like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:46, 2 March 2017 (EST)

Other than the final scene where we know for a fact that it's a Kimber 1911 as we can plainly see, I think all other 1911s should be in a separate section under 1911. Cassian's 1911, Ares' and the one John used in the subway fight [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:58, 2 March 2017 (EST)
:Yeah, lumping the S&W 1911 together with the Kimber is just confusing.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:27, 2 March 2017 (EST)

I have a pic. that could be from the supposed deleted scene but not sure how to upload the photo to here if anyone could help with that. [[User:Serpico1911|Serpico1911]] ([[User talk:Serpico1911|talk]] 00:37, 4 March 2047 (CST)
: On the left side of the screen, Toolbox, Upload File.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 05:46, 4 March 2017 (EST)
[[File:FB IMG 1487413440638.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[File:FB IMG 1488634970915.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[User:Serpico1911|Serpico1911]] ([[User talk:Serpico1911|talk]] 07:41, 4 March 2017 (CST)

Smith and Wesson SW1911 E-Series?
[[File:SW1911SC E series stainless slide.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 18:26, 4 March 2017 (EST)

I have found what resembles the compensated reversed two-tone 1911 John used in the final scene. As far as I can see, the grips are unique to the Kimber Team Match II and I couldn't find any other after market grips that looks like it. Take a look at the screencap I took from youtube below (sorry for low quality).
[[File:Kimber Team Match II.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[File:John wick 2 compensated 1911.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Note the grips and the black ambi safety. The markings on the slide are missing, though.]]
Still, we have to wait until the DVD is released to be able to correctly Identify it.
--[[User:Kliwher|Kliwher]] ([[User talk:Kliwher|talk]]) 21:40, 6 May 2017 (EST)
:OK, got an update on the compensated 1911 it is definitely not a Kimber, it has slanted rear serrations, no front serrations, black controls, slide cuts, wood and rubber/plastic hybrid grips, and bushing compensator. It is also loaded with 10-round magazine.
:--[[User:Kliwher|Kliwher]] ([[User talk:Kliwher|talk]]) 20:34, 11 June 2017 (EST)
--[[User:RickB|RickB]] ([[User talk:RickB|talk]]) 14:00, 2 June 2019 (EDT)The original two-tone 1911 was the Pachmayr Combat Special, with a blued slide over a hard-chromed frame, so silver-over-black is "reverse two-tone".

== The Custom AR-15 ==

The Sommelier refers to the Taran Tactical AR-15 as "11.5" inch - assuming he's referring to the barrel length, that can't be right surely? It looks much longer than that - closer to a regular size, 14.5 inch M4, if not longer.
Am I seeing things, or did someone make a mistake?
--[[User:Stickie|Stickie]] ([[User talk:Stickie|talk]]) 23:17, 28 May 2017 (EDT)

I sent a message to TTI to confirm, but it could be an 11.5 in barrel with a big compensator that's throwing off the overall length. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:47, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

== Shooting like a 3 gunner ==

Is it me or compared to the nightclub scene from the first movie and the Vania scene in this one, John either tac reloads his gun and then shoots until he's out of bullets and out of spare mags while in this movie, I counted, he shot roughly half a mag, barely with those TTI extensions before dumping the mags entirely, most likely still with a lot of bullets and then retrieving a fresh mag from basically an unlimited supply unlike the first movie where he had a very limited amount. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's got 4 spare mags PLUS a spare AR mag...that's still not enough mags for the many reloads he did with his Glock. Compared to the first movie on how he reloads his pistol, it looks like the habits from competition target shooting (the idea to just dump your mag and get a fresh one, regardless of how many rounds are left) were carried over to this movie. The only time he didn't constantly reload his gun is during the final shootout where he kept picking up guns after emptying a new one he picks up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:16, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

I also question why a shotgun? He could of hid caches of extra AR mags all along his escape route. It's very cool how he worked the M4, but it illustrates how he ran out of ammo quick and had to do reloads more often than if he had hidden more AR mags. It even showed that during his quick reloads, he was exposed. I wonder why Taran Butler didn't teach him a more combat reloading technique like chambering a shell and loading the rest with the thing tucked under instead of over the shoulder that's more akin to competition shooting. I bet if the prop guys also sourced High Threat Concealment, they could of had John wearing a metal plate under his shirt and get one of their magnetic chest carriers for AR mags and just slap it on, giving him more rounds [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:16, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

To add more, I'm looking at the final fight in the mirror room (reminded me of something from a Bond movie and a Bruce Lee movie, especially with the villain taunt). There were multiple chances for him to pick up a long gun or additional handguns when his 1911 ran empty, but he didn't even though he had plenty of time. Also before entering the mirror room, he reloaded his 1911, which was good because the holster he's wearing is most likely only for a 1911, but why didn't he pick up another Glock as his primary until it ran dry? Or stuff extra mags from the dead guy in his pocket?[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:28, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

:Yeah, it kinda bugged me that he didn't just bring a bag of mags along for his AR-15. You can get [https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/galati-gear-rifle-magazine-pouch-30-40-round-mags-six-pocket-shoulder-strap-nylon-black-glmp40-753182476940.do?green=54F3E6C9-EA95-5836-01AB-54A906029273 bandoleers] [https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/voodoo-tactical-m4-ar-15-six-magazine-bandolier-nylon-od-green-20-992804000-783377097476.do?sortby=ourPicksAscend&refType=&from=fn or] small [https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/blackhawk-rifle-bandoleer-holds-6-m4-ar15-mags-black-55sos1bk-648018019951.do?sortby=ourPicksAscend&refType=&from=fn chest rigs] that hold 6 mags. And I will always consider the use of a magnifying optic in a nighttime CQB situation stupid. Worse, the entire scene was pointless. John ninjaed his way in undetected and then didn't leave the way he came. Alternatively, just carrying a subcompact he might have convinced Cassian he wasn't there to fight. Or just don't admit you're working. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 18:02, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

::Again, I go back to HTC with their magnetic chest rigs that you can just slap over your body armor plate. The movie allowed John to attach a fancy 3 gun style belt with spare shotgun shells. You're telling me, he couldn't throw on some kind of bandoleer for extra AR mags? If they really wanted him to go all out with the shotgun, he could of had a sling with shells attached to it for extra firepower. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:42, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

:And yes, only in three-gun would you use a 16" carbine with a scope and side-mount red dot. Really the whole use of custom guns from TTI screams "three-gun with little real-world value". Unless I missed something, nobody actually uses angled foregrips, side-mount red dots/iron sights, or $2k in parts on a $500 pistol. And the entire point of a 16" barrel is going as short as legally possible without extra paperwork. The one three-gun accessory he didn't use but should have is a pistol red dot. They're finally at the point you can depend on them to work reliably without being too large (seriously, go look up some of the older movies on here. 80s/90s attempts at lasers and red dots are hilarious) and work better in low light and are more accurate. Oh, and buy yourself a 40 round PMag, not a mag extension. On a side note, caching a Minimi Para with an 200 round belt means no reloads and hilarious firepower.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 18:19, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

::I have actually seem some US Army training vids where there was actually an angled red dot. I've seen Marines with AFGs on their rifles. There's nothing wrong with a 1x6 power scope on your fighting rifle but that's for varied ranges outdoors. He KNEW he was gonna be fighting in the catacombs at extremely close range, so just a simple red dot would work just fine or if he really needed range, a magnifier that he can flip on and off could work. Realistically, they should have just slapped John with the same 416 clone from the first movie with a micro red dot with the same short 10.5 in barrel and he'd still perform just as well. For flare, they could of added a silencer to it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]])

I do like the idea that he should have set up traps. Remember in Shoot'em Up where Cllve Owens basically turned an entire gun factory into an automatically shooting gallery of guns all over the place? You're telling me John fucking Wick couldn't afford some well placed claymores or grenades? I'm still harping on the M4 shotgun. It's a good gun and even ghost loading it with an extension tube. He had like what? 9 + 1 shells maybe? Couldn't the Sommelier have recommended something bolder and bigger like say a Saiga 12 or bring back the AA-12 with frag-12s? Both being magazine fed shotguns that gives you a faster reload time and higher capacity?

I mean, I understand these fantasy assassins are like fantasy knights where instead of custom designer fantasy swords of epic loot, they got custom guns. If money didn't matter, the TTI handguns are awesome, just as cool and functional as Salient or Agency Arms but to us lowly average joes, we can't afford all most of them. I've got mag extensions for my Glock and more as a fashion than practicality. There are much cheaper options for mag extensions that don't cost the price of 2 mags. The price for the TTI Pmag extensions is about the exact same price as a Pmag 40. I don't have mag extensions on any of my rifles because they are just pricey and if I really needed more rounds, I got a couple PMAG40s lying around. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:29, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

Also remember at the end of the movie, he was shooting stock guns with no fancy trigger jobs done to them and he still performed just as good. In fact, it's because he was shooting stock guns is that we aren't so distracted by the guns he's using. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:45, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

Good point about the accessories. The 1-6x would have been fine in another setting. He couldn't use his 416 this time, but any AR platform would have been fine. Giving a professional a 16" AR is kinda SOD-breaking, he has no reason to use that length. And I have no idea why they had to give John all the super cool name-brand custom stuff this time. He did just fine with stock guns in the first movie. And yeah, PMag 40 would be better than some extensions. Mini-claymores are a thing BTW.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 19:09, 9 June 2017 (EDT)
:Like I've pointed out before, I think they are going with this "fantasy assassin" world where it's more spectacular than actually realistic and when I mean fantasy, I mean stuff that real assassins really shouldn't use, like flashy weapons. I can totally see someone in RPG give gaming stats to his guns because of how special they look like if you picked up some kind of hero sword. If this was like fictional tactical, we'd be seeing him rocking NODs and an MK18 with IR lasers [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:24, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
::He actually fired 11 shells from the Benelli M4 before it got emptied. Also, any news about the statement of the 11.5 inch barrel for the TTI TR-1 AR-15? (pretty sure it's incorrect) --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 18:19, 25 June 2017 (EDT)
: There's a decent number of PDs with 16 inch trunk rifles, but all those are going to be semi-only (but a non-government professional could totally have stolen one and tacticooled it up himself. That would be a good scene for a film). --[[User:VladVladson|VladVladson]] ([[User talk:VladVladson|talk]]) 19:37, 25 June 2017 (EDT)
:::Also, I see that someone added to the page that the Benelli can hold a maximum 7+1 shells in reality, but there are actually 10-round tubes in existence. In this regard, do they hold 9+1 shells or 10+1? ---[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 07:25, 2 July 2017 (EDT)
::::EDIT: I think it's 9+1, so Wick fired one round more than possible. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:05, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

==The Catacombs==

Overall I have to say I just didn't enjoy this movie as much. John isn't anywhere near as sympathetic, for one thing, and the choreography for the fights doesn't seem as good, with lots of extras reacting to getting shoot really poorly, before slowly getting back up and keeping on (the mirror fight specifically comes to mind). What really brings this home, though, is the fight in the catacombs. The idea itself doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, and on top of that it's too dark to see what's going on a lot of times. It feels more like an effort to show off Keanu Reaves's impressive three gun credentials, like the Red Circle fight was to show off how cool CAR can be, except, again, the Red Circle scene is better executed. Like the post above, I'm seriously questioning his weapon choices.

For handguns, the Glock at least sort of makes sense, although I don't get why he didn't just dig up his P30 and Glock 26 from the first film, since honestly both are much cooler weapons. For that matter, why a 17 and not an 18? Is there any reason you can't do any of the recoil compensation on a machine pistol like that, because I'd think the selective fire would be more useful as a primary weapon, which Wick seems to favor the handgun for.

I don't get the shotgun at all. The M4 is just ''big'' and despite being semiauto it's also cumbersome, especially since Wick expends at least two shells per target because of his silly habit of double tapping everyone (I'd think if you shot a man at point blank with a twelve gauge in the chest, you probably don't need to shoot him in the head too). Even with that in mind, I think a KSG (like he used in the first film) or even better, a DP-12, would be a much better choice, because of the bullpup layout. He almost loses the M4 because he corners with it and someone grabs the barrel, which wouldn't be as likely with a shorter gun; the DP has the added bonus of letting him still double tap people despite being pump action, and it's an unusual and exotic enough gun it fits him a lot more than a run of the mill M4.

The rifle is completely unnecessary. He stashes it specifically for CQB, which makes no sense given that it's got a long barrel and a semi-fixed stock; it feels very much like a medium engagement weapon which isn't what it's used for ''at all.'' It's big and cumbersome and it doesn't really feel like it's employed the way it should've been. Why not carry a carbine, like an actual M4, or a PDW like the UMP or I dunno, a P90? The last one seems the best choice for the ranges he's engaging in, since it's smaller, is going to perform comparably to the AR at the ranges he's firing (if not better, since a few times he's almost at point blank and a rifle round, so far as I know, would be more likely to over penetrate and do minimum damage), and has a higher capacity. The only real advantage an AR has over the P90 in this area is the AR is easier to reload, but the P90 has almost twice the capacity, so reloading wouldn't be as big a deal. Plus, I want to see John Wick tactically reload one, so I have some idea how you actually accomplish that.

In all, I feel like the Glock is reasonable, the M4 is a adequate, and the AR is a poor choice. If nothing else, I can see justifying the AR for potential ranged engagements (and Wick, to the films' credit, seems to eschew automatic weapons) but I'd dump the M4 in favor of something more practical, like a P90 or MP7 (for flexibility's sake). The M4's only real advantage over either is it can be used as a club in CQC when it's empty, which isn't really an advantage at all since it highlights the weapon's low capacity, cumbersome size, and awkward reloading process. Anyone agree?--[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 20:15, 7 August 2017 (EDT)

:I don't think he could "dig up" his old weapons from the first film because his house got blown up by Santino, which would probably make that a wee bit difficult. I also think his AR does have a carbine length barrel if I recall correctly, and there isn't any real difference if he was using an "M4" in semi-auto versus an AR15.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:49, 8 August 2017 (EDT)

:: The Glock and P30 are both under concrete in the basement, while Santino only destroyed the house down to its foundations, so there's no reason to think anything below that would've been damaged. I still think the AR just by nature was a poor choice even so, since he doesn't really have any reason to be carrying a rifle in that situation. By "long barrel" I mean it's still a rifle: it's still big and hard to corner with. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 00:03, 9 August 2017 (EDT)

::A P90 is a pretty poor choice, mostly because of the round. It's been shown to not be much of a man stopper and would need to dumb several rounds into someone to be as effective as a full rifle round, same with the MP7. These are very specialized guns meant for certain situations, not a full blown fire fight in reality, especially the MP7. An AR is a pretty ideal weapon, but in the catacombs, he really should have gotten a shorter weapon. His 416 looking weapon was an actual 10.5 inch barrel rifle. That's pretty good for close quarters. Taran Tactical, the company that designed the weapon, did make a shorter barrel gun that was shown in The Fate of the Furious. He really did not needed a scope underground and in close quarters. He should have gotten more mags stashed away for the AR since it was much more effective than the slower firing and less capacity shotgun he got. Most likely they gave him these guns is because he trained to hell with them in the video. He used the exact same set up in those training videos and that's why all his moves are very competition style, which I had pointed out. The slide in his Glock did not lock back once during the initial fight and he was not retaining partially empty mags and seemed to have an endless supply of them compared to the first movie where he actually ran out of ammo during the Red Circle fight. I think it was discussed before where there's a ton of options for a cheap mag carrier where he can just throw on during the chaos and have several more mags to feed his AR.

I think an MPX would have been a good choice as a secondary gun over the shotgun he decided on. He did train with the MPX, at least a longer barreled on in the vids, but he could totally use the shorter barrel on and go to town. It really wouldn't be heard for him to put a Magpul D60 for his AR and then switch to Pmags [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:47, 11 August 2017 (EDT)

:::Actually, he didn't have THAT much of ammo supply for the Glock. He reloads two times in the party, and then fires 13 rounds (after that he ejects the magazine, checks the ammo and loads it back before entering the catacombs). Then in the catacombs, he must have fired 9 rounds (or 8 if it's Ares who unintentionally shot her own henchman lol); assuming he didn't previously reload, that's 22 rounds (or 21); I'm not sure what capacity the particular extended baseplate is supposed to give to the G34, though. He reloads afterwards, and then (also assuming he doesn't reload between using the AR-15 and the Benelli) he fires exactly 22 rounds. He must have reloaded off-screen when he exited the catacombs since he fires around 13 rounds when Cassian arrives with his car. That would be reasonably 4 spare mags. Weird thing though, is that before falling down the stairs, Wick tried to run away despite the fact that he had AMPLE time to draw his backup Glock 26. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 09:34, 17 August 2017 (EDT)
::::EDIT: The TTI website indicates the availability of Glock +3/4 and +5/6 base pads (the former adds 4 extra rounds in 9x19mm and 3 in .40 ACP, while the latter adds 6 in 9x19mm and 5 in .40 ACP). With the latter, it would be reasonably 23+1 rounds for the Glock 34. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:05, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

:: The P90 and MP7 are by definition designed for CQC so I'm not really sure where you're getting they'd be bad for close quarters (if a personal ''defensive'' weapon isn't good for close up, what exactly do you do with it?). From what I've gathered (and this is why SWAT teams, the FBI, and the Secret Service use P90s and MP5s instead of M4s for breaching) a rifle round is far more likely to pass right through someone in close quarters without actually delivering enough lethal force to drop them. This is something you don't want for a number of reasons: if you're a cop you run the risk of that round going on to kill someone you didn't actually mean to shoot, and for John Wick, you run the risk of shooting someone ''several'' times and not actually killing them. ''Black Hawk Down'' mentions the Rangers having this problem during the Battle of Mogadishu, and they were engaging the Somalis at more logical ranges. Plus, he makes it a point of shooting everyone at ''least'' twice (usually once in the leg or chest and then in the head) so arguing against the PDW because he'd have to shoot someone more than once is anti intuitive, since he was doing that anyway, and at least with the PDWs he also would've had considerably more rounds at his disposal before he needed to reload. I do agree with you, though; his weaponset here is very clearly to showcase Keanu Reeves' badass three-gun skills, but given how poorly choreographed the scene itself is, if anything it feels more like an example of "this is how ''not'' to fight in CQC" than anything else. For the ranges he was shooting at most of the time, he would've probably been okay with just the Glock, and then maybe the M4 Super 90 for longer ranges. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 21:56, 16 August 2017 (EDT)

::Actually, the trend for the passed decade is away from SMGs of any kind in favor of assault rifles because they fire a larger and more potent round.

Going on a tangent here. Forgive me.

The problem with the P90 and even the MP7 is they were developed with the then current mindset and ammunition technology. You mention the Secret Service but even though they also use MP5s and P90s, that's more for firepower offered by a small package than actual effectiveness of the round it shoots as in full auto shooting of a bunch of bullets at something. Think about it. PDW rounds vs a 55.6 are smaller caliber, uses a lighter bullet, has a lower velocity, lower energy and has a lower sectional density. To be as effective as a 5.56, you would need to dump a bunch of rounds onto a target. All of these properties suggest that the PDW rounds will be more prone to drop and wind drift than the 5.56mm and have a more curved trajectory and longer flight time. This suggests a lower hit probability. The terminal effects of these rounds is also likely to be less than the 5.56mm, given that both rounds have considerably less energy and momentum at the muzzle than the 5.56mm has. Comparatively, a 9mm is actually more powerful than any PDW round, especially against unarmored targets unlike how PDWs are designed to penetrate body armor. Their purpose and energy is meant for getting passed the body armor and everything else is secondary, despite what advertisements have shown you. Remember, there is no off switch when you shoot a man in real life. We can add that to movie cliche, but in real life, getting shot even center pass is not what stops you and considering that John Wick likes to shoot people in the head, it kinda doesn't matter what caliber he's shooting because the character is so perfect at making effective kill shots.

Your brought up Blackhawk down, but remember the military uses FMJs that are general ok against most people despite the stigma surrounding it. Any type of bullet less than a 50is gonna have a problem against drug crazed fiends and savage fighters. It doesn't matter if you shoot a 5.56 with JHPs or a .45 out of a UMP. If the guy's rampaging towards you, it isn't like the movies where 1 shot to the chest from the big boy round would stop them, let alone a round that's much smaller, faster but designed to fly straight through heavy things like armor than soft things like flesh.

If you want a close range anti-body armor weapon why buy a new weapon and round that doesn't perform as well as the weapons and rounds that you have already? The argument that the PDWs are shorter than an assault rifle doesn't hold when there are so many short-barreled versions of assault rifles on the market. There are also 5.56mm weapons of similar size to a Machine Pistol and capable of being fired one handed even. In addition to using a more effective and widely available round there are other advantages to using 5.56mm, such as the weapon having exactly the same controls as the rifle the Soldier did his basic training with. The argument that PDWs are lighter can also be questioned given that there are rifles on the market that weigh only 4lb with a 16” barrel. Many 5.56 assault rifles only weigh a pound or so more than the MP-7 or P90 yet fire rounds with around four times the muzzle energy, greater penetration and greater terminal effectiveness.

For the role that the PDWs were supposedly designed for, the defense of support troops, the P90 and MP-7 are inferior to a 5.56mm carbine. 5.56mm carbines of similar weight and bulk to the P90 and MP-7 already exist. As CQB weapons against unarmored targets the MP-7 and P90 are inferior in performance to 9x19mm, .45ACP and 5.56mm weapons. Whether a weapon with such a low level of incapacitation can legitimately be called a defensive weapon is debatable.

As a CQB weapon against armored targets the MP-7 and P90 are inferior to 5.56mm weapons.

An argument that has been made is that the lighter weight of the 4.6mm ammo reduces the soldier's load. A MP-7 and six 40rd magazines weighs less than a 5.56mm rifle and six 30rd magazines. Less weight and a third more ammo sounds pretty good.

The flaw in this argument is the assumption that ammo expenditure for 4.6mm and 5.56mm will be the same.

Be it a video game or real life psychologically you tend to keep shooting a target until it goes down or demonstrates that it is out of the fight in some other way (Known charmingly as “F3” or “Fire till the F**ker Falls”).

Given the very large difference in terminal effects between these two rounds I'd say it is highly probable that the 4.6mm shooter is going to fire more rounds at a given target than 5.56mm, especially if the low-recoil automatic capabilities of the MP-7 are used. The target will take longer to fall, so the shooter will keep firing for longer.

Exterior ballistics also are a concern. All its physical characteristics suggest that for shots other than a close range the 4.6mm will be more prone to drop, wind drift and have a longer time of flight and more curved trajectory than 5.56mm. All of that seems to suggest decreased hit probability and a higher expenditure of ammo per target.

The MP7 gunner will probably need twice as many rounds as a 5.56mm rifleman and twice as many would be a very conservative estimate. I wouldn't be surprised if MP7 users end up firing three to four times as much ammo per target.

The P90 and MP-7 are weapons that many members of the military and police are interested in. Claims that the 5.7mm and 4.6mm rounds are superior to those of older weapons do not seem to be borne out by either the manufacturer's own data on the rounds or by testing. These rounds are inferior to the 5.56mm in all respects and 5.56mm weapons exist to fill any niche that the P90 and MP-7 can. The very small levels of permanent damage that these rounds inflict makes them a very questionable choice for many of the applications. The possible medical complications that may arise from the difficulty of treating these wounds may also be a concern.

A lot of people want P90s or MP-7s in their armory. FN and HK are pushing the products hard. Web pages and Reviews sing their praises and some impressive claims are made for the performance of these rounds but the data and testing tell as different story.

These weapons appear to have no military role that cannot be better met by other weapons. How can it be justified to adopt a weapon system that offers no advantage over current and alternate systems?

Also, just because "insert group" uses this weapon, does not mean it is the best for the job because the people that approve and purchase said weapons might not fully understand the system and did their own research but instead got lured in by advertisements. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:03, 17 August 2017 (EDT)

Going back to the Catacombs, I'm still going with what I said before that John Wick should have used a rifle similar to his 416 clone from the first movie and firing in bursts to push back the enemy as he retreats. Yes, he's John fucking Wick, a man who can take everyone out in the room, but the situation really called for a short rifle and tactics that should have been more military than 3-gun target range shooting. In the first movie, he not only took on more guys after he burned the church vault, but he effectively kept their heads down and suppressed them until one guy had the bright idea of throwing a car at him. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2017 (EDT)

Also, strange is that if he was fully expecting a fight in the catacombs, why did he not put his big guns at the entrance after he escaped Cassian? He basically walked away casually back into the catacombs. He knew ahead of time that they were gonna burn him and brought some bigger guns than his Glock but didn't think hiding his rifle at the entrance before he ran into Ares was a good idea? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2017 (EDT)

:: My main argument in favor for the PDWs was due to size; stopping power is a factor but given all the times he's struggling with both his long guns (especially that M4, which is a ''really'' poor choice for what he's doing) I have to say having a smaller gun wouldn't have been remiss. There's also the fact Wick ''reliably'' shoots everyone twice, whether it's with the Glocks, the P30, the M4, or the AR. Doesn't matter what gun he's carrying, doesn't matter how close he is, he's gonna double tap. Ergo, a big cumbersome rifle only capable of holding 30+1 rounds and a big, cumbersome shotgun capable of holding at ''most'' barely a double digit's worth of shells is automatically going to require more reloading than a PDW capable of carrying at least 40+1 rounds. Remember, Wick shoots everyone twice, so his ammunition consumption is going to be the same for every weapon he uses; therefore, going for compact, high capacity weapons would be a lot more practical than carrying big weapons completely ill-suited for CQC. The AR, given his shooting tendencies, can kill reliably 15 guys, assuming he completely empties his magazine (which he never does), while the M4 can reliably kill less than ''ten.'' The MP7, on the other hand, could drop at least 20, and the P90 could be expected to dispatch 25 enemies, assuming he emptied the weapon; this is fairly close to the number of people he kills during the shootout. As far as the inferiority of the PDW rounds, remember, Wick's weapon of choice is a regular 9x19mm handgun, a round a lot of .45 cultists and other Luddites will insist exists purely for target-shooting; however in the world of John Wick, this is a completely viable primary weapon, capable of getting you through the fight in just about every situation (Wick spends more time shooting 9mms than any other caliber, remember). Given the way the films are made, we could expect Wick to fire no more than two rounds per enemy, and those two rounds to be enough to dispatch that enemy. The more I think about it, the less I think actual ballistics have much to do with how these films are made. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 21:36, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

Again, going to argue against the fact that PDW rounds are meant to be fired in bursts. You need to unload more than 2 for enemies. In fact, a lot of videos of guys like Larry Vickers would say that these basically varmint rounds need be dumped heavily into a target for them to be effective. PDWs are meant to be show stoppers. Close quarter hoses to beat down enemies, but debatable in the sense if they were effective combat weapons. Shooting a person multiple times is part of good training. You don't just shoot a man once or even twice. But the way the P90 and MP7 are built, they were designed to be fired in bursts to hose down enemies in certain situations. An short barreled AR would of been a better choice than his longer gun. I wouldn't say he was struggling with the longer AR, but he did have to swing it around harder because of its length. The corridors of the catacombs were not too narrow for a 10.5 in barrel gun or shorter. As I have written above, a rifle caliber is more powerful even with lost of velocity in a shorter barrel paired with the right ammo. John also employed the over priced Taran Tactical base plates on all his Pmags, giving them 5 more rounds each. There's an awkwardness to reloading and loading the P90 because of how the mag is placed. There is a lost of speed when even you try to speed reload it. I think what we can all agree on is bringing the Benelli M4 was entirely not worth the cool factor. He kept running out of ammo so fast and even the scene pointed out how dangerous it was for him while reloading because of how relentless the enemy were coming. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:06, 4 September 2017 (EDT)
:Wouldn't the 5.7x28mm round be technically more deadly at close range? I heard that it somehow goes through a diagonal-like trajectory in the human body rather than a straight one like the 5.56x45mm round. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:15, 4 September 2017 (EDT)
::Deadlier is subjective as I've pointed out above. Because of the bullpup trigger pull in the P90, it's still not that good in single shot compared to traditional guns. Holding it down to bursts and full auto is really the best thing for counter ambush tactics. I think TV and movies make these PDW rounds more powerful than they really are and make us still think 9mm is nothing special when defensive ammo for 9mm have greatly improved over the passed decade. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:29, 6 September 2017 (EDT)

Remember Wick was forced to use a 1911 at the end of the movie and actually kept on using it at the end when he found a single reload instead of, I don't know....kept the loaded 1911 holstered and pick up a different gun to use as a primary so he would have more ammo by the end. Also surprisingly despite he was picking guns left and right, he had at least 2 chances to pick up rifles from dead guys in the mirror room but decided to stick with his 1911 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:06, 4 September 2017 (EDT)

==Found something pretty fun==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MrnAJsxL8c

--[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 05:19, 15 September 2017 (EDT)

That was great. :D [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:37, 4 March 2019 (EST)

== MP5 and possibly other weapons in catacombs ==

During the catacombs automatic gunfire can be heard, and at least one MP5 is used in this. There is also a production still with an MP5 on IMDB.

[[File:John_wick_2_catacombs_mp5.jpg]]

A production still found on IMDB, which seems to link to Amazon. The MP5 has a collapsible stock, and navy trigger group (trigger group markings cannot be seen though).

Direct link
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNzJjZjlmMzUtZWQ1Zi00N2VjLTgzYjYtODRiMzIzNTNiYWQ5XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjM5MDU4OTU@._V1_.jpg

There may be other types of weapon used in the catacombs, but I am not sure (it is dark there). I don't own a bluray copy of this movie.

It will be great if someone with 4K bluray can analyse the weapon in the catacomb and upload those snapshots here. I just took a snapshot from YouTube, which its quality will never be the best.

Talk:John Wick: Chapter 2

2020-03-26T17:44:57Z

Luisiuman1998519: /* MP5 and possibly other weapons in catacombs */

SO MUCH YES --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 21:24, 6 October 2016 (EDT)
:I KNOW!!! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:43, 7 October 2016 (EDT)
::The hype is real!--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 20:44, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:::And then there's me: I think the film looks generic.--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 21:17, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
::::It really is, but it's not how original a story can be. The best thing you can do to a generic type of character is to have pretty good acting and for us here, awesome gun play and John Wick is awesome at the gun play. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:59, 12 October 2016 (EDT)
So, any special reason he's using some fancy Glock and AR-15 from a company no one has heard of? Why not give him his old P30 and HK416 back? Why do armorers keep buying overpriced Glocks with fancy aftermarket parts?--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 23:35, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:::Taran Tactical isn't an unknown company. It might not be as famous or infamous as Salient, but it's known enough in some circles. They also trained Will Smith for Suicide Squad. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:11, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure Keanu Reeves trained with them for the movie.--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:35, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
::I've heard somewhere that Keanu Reeves has some sort of share in Taran Tactical. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:12, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
:[https://www.facebook.com/TaranTactical/videos/1129178030434266/ Yep]. They even had a [https://www.facebook.com/TaranTactical/posts/1291057160913018 contest perfect for us].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:39, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
::Here's the same [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpr8oqyjKIc video]on youtube for those who loathe facebook. Anyway, i think those tacticooled glocks sorta fit in a silly movie like John Wick. Then again, the only other movies where i've ever seen these types of pimped guns are the Transformers movies and 13 hours.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:23, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
:::It makes a sort of sense in a way of people of expensive groups will buy expensive things, including guns if need be. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 09:59, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
::: One of the unseen henchmen on the poster (on the right) appears to be holding a P30L with the same compensator from the first film. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 11:00, 9 October 2016 (EDT)

Here's another vid of him training with Aaron Cohen, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RKISkjMtPU [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:00, 12 October 2016 (EDT)

==Poster Weapons==
[[Image:JohnWick2 cover.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The film's first official poster features several firearms: a sawed-off [[Remington 870]], a [[Heckler & Koch P30L]] (fitted with the same compensator from the [[John Wick|first film]]), a [[Beretta 92FS]], two [[Beretta 92FS Inox]]es, two [[Beretta 90Two]]s, and several customized [[Colt M1911]] variants (one of which is obviously a replica with a visible parting line).]]

== Please help ID ==

Please help ID this launcher. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 14:30, 19 December 2016 (EST)
[[File:JW2 304.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:JW2 305.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
::Looks like an [[ARWEN 37]] to me.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 15:09, 19 December 2016 (EST)
::: It was definitely an ARWEN 37, even got to see the loading process. --[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 07:39, 13 February 2017 (EST)

== Glock ==
Looks like the Glock that was used in this film is currently on display at SHOT Show:
https://scontent.fdet1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15977767_10154301140996134_2975412249705260393_n.jpg?oh=e720456e623db93a6644ca3c46a432c9&oe=591FE97A

[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 12:05, 19 January 2017 (EST)
:Cool--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:38, 19 January 2017 (EST)
::Apparently he's also carrying a Taran Glock 26 too, if Glock themselves are to be [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/26/glock-movies-shot-2017/ believed.]--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 10:07, 27 January 2017 (EST)

:There's a short clip ad of the scene where John Wick talks to the gun guy about what gun recommendations. He suggested a Glock 34, a Glock 26 as well as an "AR-15" and Benelli M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:57, 27 January 2017 (EST)
::Got a link to that clip?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 11:36, 27 January 2017 (EST)
::I've been trying to look for it, but it only appears as an ad every time I watch a Youtube vid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:28, 27 January 2017 (EST)

Nevermind. Found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgxWQADcWXI [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:29, 27 January 2017 (EST)
:That's neat. I guess all those guns have some Taran tactical thing going on with them...--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:18, 27 January 2017 (EST)

== Armory ==

[[File:JW2Armory1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:JW2Armory2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Grabbed a couple more shots of the armory from the trailer. Does anyone know what the rifles that are hanging horizontally are? I can't place them, and it's bugging me.
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 11:45, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:Beretta AR70/90?--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:16, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:: Yep, seems like a AR70/90--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] ([[User talk:Flavio|talk]]) 13:56, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:::Looks like the 90 to be specific.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:31, 3 February 2017 (EST)

: In Picture #1 I see several Glock 17s on the top shelf and what looks like a Glock 17L on the very far right. The shelf below that has a compact SIG P220 series handgun (not sure which), a VP9, and two empty spots which is likely where John got his two Glocks below. The one below that has two Beretta 92 handguns, and another that I can't identify (looked ''kind of'' like a compact Walther P99 or Springfield XD but I don't think it is.) The bottom shelf is mostly unidentifiable but the one on the furthest right looks kind of like a HK Mark 23 to me. Leaning against that shelf is an M79. The right most shelf has more Glock 17s, two two-tone SIG-Sauer P226s, and a Beretta 93R. There's another 93R and a Px4 on the one below that.
: In Picture #2 I see MP5Ks, two of which have compensators attached and several Uzis/Mini-Uzis. To the right of those are a bunch of MP5s, some of which have Surefire lights installed. Can't identify the shotguns, sadly.
--[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 21:02, 3 February 2017 (EST)
::There's also a Beretta PM12 in between the MP5Ks and Uzis. Most of the guns on the bottom are hard to ID, but there's a couple of obvious M4/M16 variants.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 10:58, 5 February 2017 (EST)
:::Two of those tall shotguns are Benelli M4s, and it looks like there are two SG553s behind them, in addition to regular Beretta AR 70s.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 11:47, 5 February 2017 (EST)

== Just saw it ==

So let me start by saying that if you're a fan of the first, chances are you'll love this one, I did. The action was beautifully choreographed and shot, and the world of the continental was expanded upon really well. Now for the guns I saw. Bear with me because the movie moved really fast and a lot of guns were used, but this is what I remember.

-HK P30L - Same gun from the first movie, used by John in the opening fight briefly. Later seen buried under John's floor.

-Kel-Tech KSG - Seen briefly being buried underneath John's floor in the beginning.

-Coharie Arms CA-415 - Buried alongside the KSG and another gun I couldn't identify.

-Glock 26 - Also seen alongside the P30L being buried.

-ARWEN 37 - Used by Santino in the beginning of the film. Portrayed as an explosive grenade launcher.

-Glock 34 - Main sidearm used by John in Rome, Had either the TTI or Salient modification. It was specifically referred to as the Glock 34 by "The Sommelier" (armorer). He also mentioned it's Austrian roots as well as the German roots of the P30.

-Glock 27 - Also used by John in Rome. Also provided by The Sommelier. It may have been a Glock 26 but I seem to remember him calling it the 27, I could be wrong though. Used in a fistfight with Cassien.

-Benelli M4 - Also used by John in Rome. Also provided by The Sommelier. Referred to by name and it's Italian roots are directly mentioned.

-TTI TR-1 - Final weapon used by John in Rome (I believe). Once again, provided by The Sommelier. He refers to it as an AR-15, and the specifications of it's attachments were mentioned but unfortunately I cannot remember them. Also appears to be used by Ares men in the final battle

-Kimber Warrior - Used by John as well as countless other assassins including Ares ([[Ruby Rose]]). Seen in both suppressed and unsuppressed modes, both of which are used by John. The Bowery King ([[Laurence Fishburne]]) provides one to John before the climax. He specifically refers to it as a "Kimber 1911" and also mentions it's seven round capacity, which also annoys John. The final gun John handles in the film.

-Grey Glock? - Used by Cassien ([[Common]]) while pursuing John through New York. Appeared to be a grey Colored Glock with a matching grey suppressor. Could be a custom gun or could be something entirely different, I didn't get a clear look at it.

-Various handguns - Used by multiple assassins attempting to kill John in New York. Appeared to be an assortment of Glocks, Kimbers, and HKs in suppressed and unsuppressed forms. Didn't get a clear view of them. John procures many of them from the assassins he kills throughout.

-Beretta Cheetah - Appeared to be used by one of The Bowery King's men who saves John. Seen suppressed. Also used, unsuppressed, by Santino D'Antonio ([[Riccardo Scamarcio]])

-Bowery King arsenal - Various weapons, many the same as seen earlier in the film, however I did notice what appeared to be an RPG-7 in one of the racks.

-Glock 17 - Carried by nearly all of Santino's men. Multiple are used by John in the finale, with him procuring a new one every time he runs out of ammo in the previous one.

-Sig SG 550 and 552 - Used by Ares' men in the finale. Some appeared to lack rear iron sights.

Thats about it. Cassien used a handgun during his fight with John in Rome, but I never got a clear view of it. Also in the finale Ares's men used a collection of AR-15s and I believe a few SMGs. I couldn't quite tell what models the SMGs were, however they appeared to be HKs and also lacked rear iron sights, though I could just be rememebering the Sigs and imagining that they used SMGs (Quite likely to be honest, It was a late showing and I'm fairly tired). I'm sure I missed several guns, as like I said this was a gun heavy movie, however i will comment that many of the same models appeared repeatedly, probably props being reused. Both The Bowery King and The Sommelier had large arsenals with numerous guns I was unable to Identify. Sorry for missing some things, the movie moved at a breakneck pace and I didn't always have time to appreciate the action on screen and notice what guns we're being used.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|One shot is all it takes.]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 05:09, 10 February 2017 (EST)
:The Sommelier mentions that Wick's AR-15 has a Trijicon Accupoint, but I don't remember him specifying the exact model. Also, regarding The Sommeliers arsenal, I believe the rifles in the background are Beretta AR70/90's.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 17:43, 13 February 2017 (EST)

I just saw it and I am pretty sure Cassien's grey glock was actually an Arsenal Strike One, It had a distinctive step down forward of the ejection port. You get a short but clear view of it when Cassien does an ammo check in the subway shootout. --[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 14:34, 12 February 2017 (EST)

We also need a photo of TTI's Glock 34 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:23, 14 February 2017 (EST)

:They showed them off at the SHOT Show
:TTI Glock 34
:http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/20170117_124643-600x537.jpg
:TTI Glock 26
:http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/20170117_124607-600x341.jpg
Also there was a picture (cut away drawing?) of a H&K MG4 with a G36 Hensoldt AG Sight/carrying handle in Laurence Fishburne's office.
:--[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 15:40, 15 February 2017 (EST)

The 1911 that Ares uses is a S&W 1911 either a PD or an SC model I'm leaning towards a PD full size. Also the gun John uses at the very end seems to be some kind of Kimber with a custom compensator. [[User:Serpico1911|Serpico1911]] ([[User talk:Serpico1911|talk]] 03:38, 15 February 2017 (CST)
:Finally got to see it. To think they weren't going to show this movie in sweden! Thank god they did! It blew my dick off! Liked alot of things in it, but one thing that stood out to me was that i've never seen an action movie like this were the main character reloads as often as he does. Also, don't know if this is the case, but i watched this with a friend and he counted that in the Museum scene (when Wick is switching between guns left and right) he only shot the various pistols he picked up ten times before they ran out.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:07, 24 February 2017 (EST)
::Just saw it too, my jaw hit the floor when Keanu did the [[Killing Floor 2]] style ''one-handed'' brass check on a 1911 before entering the hall of mirrors towards the end.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 01:31, 25 February 2017 (EST)
:::The only other movie ive seen someone do that style of brass check before is The way of the gun. Can't think of any movie where someone brass checked guns as often as this one--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:28, 25 February 2017 (EST)
::::Only movies that come to mind for brass checking is pretty much anything by Michael Mann, particularly Heat, but not as much as this film. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 18:29, 25 February 2017 (EST)

I'd say that Ares's pistol is a SW1911SC variant. I say this because we get a good look at the slide a few times, and it has the particular slide serrations of the SC series of SW1911's. It also seemed to have a black slide, but a stainless steel frame, but I could be wrong, saw the film last night. Loved it.--[[User:Bauer2121|Bauer2121]] ([[User talk:Bauer2121|talk]]) 13:05, 26 February 2017 (EST)

== 1911s ==

I'm pretty sure that the 1911 used by Ares is a S&W. I remember in one shot you could clearly see the extractor and the fish scale type serrations. I can't recall exactly what happened, but after John beats Ares to a pulp, he takes her 1911, but later when he's at the continental and shoots that guy with it, the 1911 he used is some variant with a compensator. Unless she was carrying two different 1911s, this might be a continuity error.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:19, 2 March 2017 (EST)

Your right. I remember watching this a second time that Ares had a suppressor on hers and clearly no compensator so...either a deleted scene or he just got a completely different 1911. I remember he frisked Ares for a spare mag and reloaded it since it was empty but when he used it at the Continental, it locked back, meaning he had fired all but one round so...I think there must be a deleted scene involved or something or just bad continuity, which is surprising for a movie like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:46, 2 March 2017 (EST)

Other than the final scene where we know for a fact that it's a Kimber 1911 as we can plainly see, I think all other 1911s should be in a separate section under 1911. Cassian's 1911, Ares' and the one John used in the subway fight [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:58, 2 March 2017 (EST)
:Yeah, lumping the S&W 1911 together with the Kimber is just confusing.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:27, 2 March 2017 (EST)

I have a pic. that could be from the supposed deleted scene but not sure how to upload the photo to here if anyone could help with that. [[User:Serpico1911|Serpico1911]] ([[User talk:Serpico1911|talk]] 00:37, 4 March 2047 (CST)
: On the left side of the screen, Toolbox, Upload File.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 05:46, 4 March 2017 (EST)
[[File:FB IMG 1487413440638.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[File:FB IMG 1488634970915.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[User:Serpico1911|Serpico1911]] ([[User talk:Serpico1911|talk]] 07:41, 4 March 2017 (CST)

Smith and Wesson SW1911 E-Series?
[[File:SW1911SC E series stainless slide.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 18:26, 4 March 2017 (EST)

I have found what resembles the compensated reversed two-tone 1911 John used in the final scene. As far as I can see, the grips are unique to the Kimber Team Match II and I couldn't find any other after market grips that looks like it. Take a look at the screencap I took from youtube below (sorry for low quality).
[[File:Kimber Team Match II.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[File:John wick 2 compensated 1911.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Note the grips and the black ambi safety. The markings on the slide are missing, though.]]
Still, we have to wait until the DVD is released to be able to correctly Identify it.
--[[User:Kliwher|Kliwher]] ([[User talk:Kliwher|talk]]) 21:40, 6 May 2017 (EST)
:OK, got an update on the compensated 1911 it is definitely not a Kimber, it has slanted rear serrations, no front serrations, black controls, slide cuts, wood and rubber/plastic hybrid grips, and bushing compensator. It is also loaded with 10-round magazine.
:--[[User:Kliwher|Kliwher]] ([[User talk:Kliwher|talk]]) 20:34, 11 June 2017 (EST)
--[[User:RickB|RickB]] ([[User talk:RickB|talk]]) 14:00, 2 June 2019 (EDT)The original two-tone 1911 was the Pachmayr Combat Special, with a blued slide over a hard-chromed frame, so silver-over-black is "reverse two-tone".

== The Custom AR-15 ==

The Sommelier refers to the Taran Tactical AR-15 as "11.5" inch - assuming he's referring to the barrel length, that can't be right surely? It looks much longer than that - closer to a regular size, 14.5 inch M4, if not longer.
Am I seeing things, or did someone make a mistake?
--[[User:Stickie|Stickie]] ([[User talk:Stickie|talk]]) 23:17, 28 May 2017 (EDT)

I sent a message to TTI to confirm, but it could be an 11.5 in barrel with a big compensator that's throwing off the overall length. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:47, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

== Shooting like a 3 gunner ==

Is it me or compared to the nightclub scene from the first movie and the Vania scene in this one, John either tac reloads his gun and then shoots until he's out of bullets and out of spare mags while in this movie, I counted, he shot roughly half a mag, barely with those TTI extensions before dumping the mags entirely, most likely still with a lot of bullets and then retrieving a fresh mag from basically an unlimited supply unlike the first movie where he had a very limited amount. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's got 4 spare mags PLUS a spare AR mag...that's still not enough mags for the many reloads he did with his Glock. Compared to the first movie on how he reloads his pistol, it looks like the habits from competition target shooting (the idea to just dump your mag and get a fresh one, regardless of how many rounds are left) were carried over to this movie. The only time he didn't constantly reload his gun is during the final shootout where he kept picking up guns after emptying a new one he picks up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:16, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

I also question why a shotgun? He could of hid caches of extra AR mags all along his escape route. It's very cool how he worked the M4, but it illustrates how he ran out of ammo quick and had to do reloads more often than if he had hidden more AR mags. It even showed that during his quick reloads, he was exposed. I wonder why Taran Butler didn't teach him a more combat reloading technique like chambering a shell and loading the rest with the thing tucked under instead of over the shoulder that's more akin to competition shooting. I bet if the prop guys also sourced High Threat Concealment, they could of had John wearing a metal plate under his shirt and get one of their magnetic chest carriers for AR mags and just slap it on, giving him more rounds [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:16, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

To add more, I'm looking at the final fight in the mirror room (reminded me of something from a Bond movie and a Bruce Lee movie, especially with the villain taunt). There were multiple chances for him to pick up a long gun or additional handguns when his 1911 ran empty, but he didn't even though he had plenty of time. Also before entering the mirror room, he reloaded his 1911, which was good because the holster he's wearing is most likely only for a 1911, but why didn't he pick up another Glock as his primary until it ran dry? Or stuff extra mags from the dead guy in his pocket?[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:28, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

:Yeah, it kinda bugged me that he didn't just bring a bag of mags along for his AR-15. You can get [https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/galati-gear-rifle-magazine-pouch-30-40-round-mags-six-pocket-shoulder-strap-nylon-black-glmp40-753182476940.do?green=54F3E6C9-EA95-5836-01AB-54A906029273 bandoleers] [https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/voodoo-tactical-m4-ar-15-six-magazine-bandolier-nylon-od-green-20-992804000-783377097476.do?sortby=ourPicksAscend&refType=&from=fn or] small [https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/blackhawk-rifle-bandoleer-holds-6-m4-ar15-mags-black-55sos1bk-648018019951.do?sortby=ourPicksAscend&refType=&from=fn chest rigs] that hold 6 mags. And I will always consider the use of a magnifying optic in a nighttime CQB situation stupid. Worse, the entire scene was pointless. John ninjaed his way in undetected and then didn't leave the way he came. Alternatively, just carrying a subcompact he might have convinced Cassian he wasn't there to fight. Or just don't admit you're working. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 18:02, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

::Again, I go back to HTC with their magnetic chest rigs that you can just slap over your body armor plate. The movie allowed John to attach a fancy 3 gun style belt with spare shotgun shells. You're telling me, he couldn't throw on some kind of bandoleer for extra AR mags? If they really wanted him to go all out with the shotgun, he could of had a sling with shells attached to it for extra firepower. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:42, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

:And yes, only in three-gun would you use a 16" carbine with a scope and side-mount red dot. Really the whole use of custom guns from TTI screams "three-gun with little real-world value". Unless I missed something, nobody actually uses angled foregrips, side-mount red dots/iron sights, or $2k in parts on a $500 pistol. And the entire point of a 16" barrel is going as short as legally possible without extra paperwork. The one three-gun accessory he didn't use but should have is a pistol red dot. They're finally at the point you can depend on them to work reliably without being too large (seriously, go look up some of the older movies on here. 80s/90s attempts at lasers and red dots are hilarious) and work better in low light and are more accurate. Oh, and buy yourself a 40 round PMag, not a mag extension. On a side note, caching a Minimi Para with an 200 round belt means no reloads and hilarious firepower.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 18:19, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

::I have actually seem some US Army training vids where there was actually an angled red dot. I've seen Marines with AFGs on their rifles. There's nothing wrong with a 1x6 power scope on your fighting rifle but that's for varied ranges outdoors. He KNEW he was gonna be fighting in the catacombs at extremely close range, so just a simple red dot would work just fine or if he really needed range, a magnifier that he can flip on and off could work. Realistically, they should have just slapped John with the same 416 clone from the first movie with a micro red dot with the same short 10.5 in barrel and he'd still perform just as well. For flare, they could of added a silencer to it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]])

I do like the idea that he should have set up traps. Remember in Shoot'em Up where Cllve Owens basically turned an entire gun factory into an automatically shooting gallery of guns all over the place? You're telling me John fucking Wick couldn't afford some well placed claymores or grenades? I'm still harping on the M4 shotgun. It's a good gun and even ghost loading it with an extension tube. He had like what? 9 + 1 shells maybe? Couldn't the Sommelier have recommended something bolder and bigger like say a Saiga 12 or bring back the AA-12 with frag-12s? Both being magazine fed shotguns that gives you a faster reload time and higher capacity?

I mean, I understand these fantasy assassins are like fantasy knights where instead of custom designer fantasy swords of epic loot, they got custom guns. If money didn't matter, the TTI handguns are awesome, just as cool and functional as Salient or Agency Arms but to us lowly average joes, we can't afford all most of them. I've got mag extensions for my Glock and more as a fashion than practicality. There are much cheaper options for mag extensions that don't cost the price of 2 mags. The price for the TTI Pmag extensions is about the exact same price as a Pmag 40. I don't have mag extensions on any of my rifles because they are just pricey and if I really needed more rounds, I got a couple PMAG40s lying around. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:29, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

Also remember at the end of the movie, he was shooting stock guns with no fancy trigger jobs done to them and he still performed just as good. In fact, it's because he was shooting stock guns is that we aren't so distracted by the guns he's using. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:45, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

Good point about the accessories. The 1-6x would have been fine in another setting. He couldn't use his 416 this time, but any AR platform would have been fine. Giving a professional a 16" AR is kinda SOD-breaking, he has no reason to use that length. And I have no idea why they had to give John all the super cool name-brand custom stuff this time. He did just fine with stock guns in the first movie. And yeah, PMag 40 would be better than some extensions. Mini-claymores are a thing BTW.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 19:09, 9 June 2017 (EDT)
:Like I've pointed out before, I think they are going with this "fantasy assassin" world where it's more spectacular than actually realistic and when I mean fantasy, I mean stuff that real assassins really shouldn't use, like flashy weapons. I can totally see someone in RPG give gaming stats to his guns because of how special they look like if you picked up some kind of hero sword. If this was like fictional tactical, we'd be seeing him rocking NODs and an MK18 with IR lasers [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:24, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
::He actually fired 11 shells from the Benelli M4 before it got emptied. Also, any news about the statement of the 11.5 inch barrel for the TTI TR-1 AR-15? (pretty sure it's incorrect) --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 18:19, 25 June 2017 (EDT)
: There's a decent number of PDs with 16 inch trunk rifles, but all those are going to be semi-only (but a non-government professional could totally have stolen one and tacticooled it up himself. That would be a good scene for a film). --[[User:VladVladson|VladVladson]] ([[User talk:VladVladson|talk]]) 19:37, 25 June 2017 (EDT)
:::Also, I see that someone added to the page that the Benelli can hold a maximum 7+1 shells in reality, but there are actually 10-round tubes in existence. In this regard, do they hold 9+1 shells or 10+1? ---[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 07:25, 2 July 2017 (EDT)
::::EDIT: I think it's 9+1, so Wick fired one round more than possible. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:05, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

==The Catacombs==

Overall I have to say I just didn't enjoy this movie as much. John isn't anywhere near as sympathetic, for one thing, and the choreography for the fights doesn't seem as good, with lots of extras reacting to getting shoot really poorly, before slowly getting back up and keeping on (the mirror fight specifically comes to mind). What really brings this home, though, is the fight in the catacombs. The idea itself doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, and on top of that it's too dark to see what's going on a lot of times. It feels more like an effort to show off Keanu Reaves's impressive three gun credentials, like the Red Circle fight was to show off how cool CAR can be, except, again, the Red Circle scene is better executed. Like the post above, I'm seriously questioning his weapon choices.

For handguns, the Glock at least sort of makes sense, although I don't get why he didn't just dig up his P30 and Glock 26 from the first film, since honestly both are much cooler weapons. For that matter, why a 17 and not an 18? Is there any reason you can't do any of the recoil compensation on a machine pistol like that, because I'd think the selective fire would be more useful as a primary weapon, which Wick seems to favor the handgun for.

I don't get the shotgun at all. The M4 is just ''big'' and despite being semiauto it's also cumbersome, especially since Wick expends at least two shells per target because of his silly habit of double tapping everyone (I'd think if you shot a man at point blank with a twelve gauge in the chest, you probably don't need to shoot him in the head too). Even with that in mind, I think a KSG (like he used in the first film) or even better, a DP-12, would be a much better choice, because of the bullpup layout. He almost loses the M4 because he corners with it and someone grabs the barrel, which wouldn't be as likely with a shorter gun; the DP has the added bonus of letting him still double tap people despite being pump action, and it's an unusual and exotic enough gun it fits him a lot more than a run of the mill M4.

The rifle is completely unnecessary. He stashes it specifically for CQB, which makes no sense given that it's got a long barrel and a semi-fixed stock; it feels very much like a medium engagement weapon which isn't what it's used for ''at all.'' It's big and cumbersome and it doesn't really feel like it's employed the way it should've been. Why not carry a carbine, like an actual M4, or a PDW like the UMP or I dunno, a P90? The last one seems the best choice for the ranges he's engaging in, since it's smaller, is going to perform comparably to the AR at the ranges he's firing (if not better, since a few times he's almost at point blank and a rifle round, so far as I know, would be more likely to over penetrate and do minimum damage), and has a higher capacity. The only real advantage an AR has over the P90 in this area is the AR is easier to reload, but the P90 has almost twice the capacity, so reloading wouldn't be as big a deal. Plus, I want to see John Wick tactically reload one, so I have some idea how you actually accomplish that.

In all, I feel like the Glock is reasonable, the M4 is a adequate, and the AR is a poor choice. If nothing else, I can see justifying the AR for potential ranged engagements (and Wick, to the films' credit, seems to eschew automatic weapons) but I'd dump the M4 in favor of something more practical, like a P90 or MP7 (for flexibility's sake). The M4's only real advantage over either is it can be used as a club in CQC when it's empty, which isn't really an advantage at all since it highlights the weapon's low capacity, cumbersome size, and awkward reloading process. Anyone agree?--[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 20:15, 7 August 2017 (EDT)

:I don't think he could "dig up" his old weapons from the first film because his house got blown up by Santino, which would probably make that a wee bit difficult. I also think his AR does have a carbine length barrel if I recall correctly, and there isn't any real difference if he was using an "M4" in semi-auto versus an AR15.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:49, 8 August 2017 (EDT)

:: The Glock and P30 are both under concrete in the basement, while Santino only destroyed the house down to its foundations, so there's no reason to think anything below that would've been damaged. I still think the AR just by nature was a poor choice even so, since he doesn't really have any reason to be carrying a rifle in that situation. By "long barrel" I mean it's still a rifle: it's still big and hard to corner with. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 00:03, 9 August 2017 (EDT)

::A P90 is a pretty poor choice, mostly because of the round. It's been shown to not be much of a man stopper and would need to dumb several rounds into someone to be as effective as a full rifle round, same with the MP7. These are very specialized guns meant for certain situations, not a full blown fire fight in reality, especially the MP7. An AR is a pretty ideal weapon, but in the catacombs, he really should have gotten a shorter weapon. His 416 looking weapon was an actual 10.5 inch barrel rifle. That's pretty good for close quarters. Taran Tactical, the company that designed the weapon, did make a shorter barrel gun that was shown in The Fate of the Furious. He really did not needed a scope underground and in close quarters. He should have gotten more mags stashed away for the AR since it was much more effective than the slower firing and less capacity shotgun he got. Most likely they gave him these guns is because he trained to hell with them in the video. He used the exact same set up in those training videos and that's why all his moves are very competition style, which I had pointed out. The slide in his Glock did not lock back once during the initial fight and he was not retaining partially empty mags and seemed to have an endless supply of them compared to the first movie where he actually ran out of ammo during the Red Circle fight. I think it was discussed before where there's a ton of options for a cheap mag carrier where he can just throw on during the chaos and have several more mags to feed his AR.

I think an MPX would have been a good choice as a secondary gun over the shotgun he decided on. He did train with the MPX, at least a longer barreled on in the vids, but he could totally use the shorter barrel on and go to town. It really wouldn't be heard for him to put a Magpul D60 for his AR and then switch to Pmags [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:47, 11 August 2017 (EDT)

:::Actually, he didn't have THAT much of ammo supply for the Glock. He reloads two times in the party, and then fires 13 rounds (after that he ejects the magazine, checks the ammo and loads it back before entering the catacombs). Then in the catacombs, he must have fired 9 rounds (or 8 if it's Ares who unintentionally shot her own henchman lol); assuming he didn't previously reload, that's 22 rounds (or 21); I'm not sure what capacity the particular extended baseplate is supposed to give to the G34, though. He reloads afterwards, and then (also assuming he doesn't reload between using the AR-15 and the Benelli) he fires exactly 22 rounds. He must have reloaded off-screen when he exited the catacombs since he fires around 13 rounds when Cassian arrives with his car. That would be reasonably 4 spare mags. Weird thing though, is that before falling down the stairs, Wick tried to run away despite the fact that he had AMPLE time to draw his backup Glock 26. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 09:34, 17 August 2017 (EDT)
::::EDIT: The TTI website indicates the availability of Glock +3/4 and +5/6 base pads (the former adds 4 extra rounds in 9x19mm and 3 in .40 ACP, while the latter adds 6 in 9x19mm and 5 in .40 ACP). With the latter, it would be reasonably 23+1 rounds for the Glock 34. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:05, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

:: The P90 and MP7 are by definition designed for CQC so I'm not really sure where you're getting they'd be bad for close quarters (if a personal ''defensive'' weapon isn't good for close up, what exactly do you do with it?). From what I've gathered (and this is why SWAT teams, the FBI, and the Secret Service use P90s and MP5s instead of M4s for breaching) a rifle round is far more likely to pass right through someone in close quarters without actually delivering enough lethal force to drop them. This is something you don't want for a number of reasons: if you're a cop you run the risk of that round going on to kill someone you didn't actually mean to shoot, and for John Wick, you run the risk of shooting someone ''several'' times and not actually killing them. ''Black Hawk Down'' mentions the Rangers having this problem during the Battle of Mogadishu, and they were engaging the Somalis at more logical ranges. Plus, he makes it a point of shooting everyone at ''least'' twice (usually once in the leg or chest and then in the head) so arguing against the PDW because he'd have to shoot someone more than once is anti intuitive, since he was doing that anyway, and at least with the PDWs he also would've had considerably more rounds at his disposal before he needed to reload. I do agree with you, though; his weaponset here is very clearly to showcase Keanu Reeves' badass three-gun skills, but given how poorly choreographed the scene itself is, if anything it feels more like an example of "this is how ''not'' to fight in CQC" than anything else. For the ranges he was shooting at most of the time, he would've probably been okay with just the Glock, and then maybe the M4 Super 90 for longer ranges. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 21:56, 16 August 2017 (EDT)

::Actually, the trend for the passed decade is away from SMGs of any kind in favor of assault rifles because they fire a larger and more potent round.

Going on a tangent here. Forgive me.

The problem with the P90 and even the MP7 is they were developed with the then current mindset and ammunition technology. You mention the Secret Service but even though they also use MP5s and P90s, that's more for firepower offered by a small package than actual effectiveness of the round it shoots as in full auto shooting of a bunch of bullets at something. Think about it. PDW rounds vs a 55.6 are smaller caliber, uses a lighter bullet, has a lower velocity, lower energy and has a lower sectional density. To be as effective as a 5.56, you would need to dump a bunch of rounds onto a target. All of these properties suggest that the PDW rounds will be more prone to drop and wind drift than the 5.56mm and have a more curved trajectory and longer flight time. This suggests a lower hit probability. The terminal effects of these rounds is also likely to be less than the 5.56mm, given that both rounds have considerably less energy and momentum at the muzzle than the 5.56mm has. Comparatively, a 9mm is actually more powerful than any PDW round, especially against unarmored targets unlike how PDWs are designed to penetrate body armor. Their purpose and energy is meant for getting passed the body armor and everything else is secondary, despite what advertisements have shown you. Remember, there is no off switch when you shoot a man in real life. We can add that to movie cliche, but in real life, getting shot even center pass is not what stops you and considering that John Wick likes to shoot people in the head, it kinda doesn't matter what caliber he's shooting because the character is so perfect at making effective kill shots.

Your brought up Blackhawk down, but remember the military uses FMJs that are general ok against most people despite the stigma surrounding it. Any type of bullet less than a 50is gonna have a problem against drug crazed fiends and savage fighters. It doesn't matter if you shoot a 5.56 with JHPs or a .45 out of a UMP. If the guy's rampaging towards you, it isn't like the movies where 1 shot to the chest from the big boy round would stop them, let alone a round that's much smaller, faster but designed to fly straight through heavy things like armor than soft things like flesh.

If you want a close range anti-body armor weapon why buy a new weapon and round that doesn't perform as well as the weapons and rounds that you have already? The argument that the PDWs are shorter than an assault rifle doesn't hold when there are so many short-barreled versions of assault rifles on the market. There are also 5.56mm weapons of similar size to a Machine Pistol and capable of being fired one handed even. In addition to using a more effective and widely available round there are other advantages to using 5.56mm, such as the weapon having exactly the same controls as the rifle the Soldier did his basic training with. The argument that PDWs are lighter can also be questioned given that there are rifles on the market that weigh only 4lb with a 16” barrel. Many 5.56 assault rifles only weigh a pound or so more than the MP-7 or P90 yet fire rounds with around four times the muzzle energy, greater penetration and greater terminal effectiveness.

For the role that the PDWs were supposedly designed for, the defense of support troops, the P90 and MP-7 are inferior to a 5.56mm carbine. 5.56mm carbines of similar weight and bulk to the P90 and MP-7 already exist. As CQB weapons against unarmored targets the MP-7 and P90 are inferior in performance to 9x19mm, .45ACP and 5.56mm weapons. Whether a weapon with such a low level of incapacitation can legitimately be called a defensive weapon is debatable.

As a CQB weapon against armored targets the MP-7 and P90 are inferior to 5.56mm weapons.

An argument that has been made is that the lighter weight of the 4.6mm ammo reduces the soldier's load. A MP-7 and six 40rd magazines weighs less than a 5.56mm rifle and six 30rd magazines. Less weight and a third more ammo sounds pretty good.

The flaw in this argument is the assumption that ammo expenditure for 4.6mm and 5.56mm will be the same.

Be it a video game or real life psychologically you tend to keep shooting a target until it goes down or demonstrates that it is out of the fight in some other way (Known charmingly as “F3” or “Fire till the F**ker Falls”).

Given the very large difference in terminal effects between these two rounds I'd say it is highly probable that the 4.6mm shooter is going to fire more rounds at a given target than 5.56mm, especially if the low-recoil automatic capabilities of the MP-7 are used. The target will take longer to fall, so the shooter will keep firing for longer.

Exterior ballistics also are a concern. All its physical characteristics suggest that for shots other than a close range the 4.6mm will be more prone to drop, wind drift and have a longer time of flight and more curved trajectory than 5.56mm. All of that seems to suggest decreased hit probability and a higher expenditure of ammo per target.

The MP7 gunner will probably need twice as many rounds as a 5.56mm rifleman and twice as many would be a very conservative estimate. I wouldn't be surprised if MP7 users end up firing three to four times as much ammo per target.

The P90 and MP-7 are weapons that many members of the military and police are interested in. Claims that the 5.7mm and 4.6mm rounds are superior to those of older weapons do not seem to be borne out by either the manufacturer's own data on the rounds or by testing. These rounds are inferior to the 5.56mm in all respects and 5.56mm weapons exist to fill any niche that the P90 and MP-7 can. The very small levels of permanent damage that these rounds inflict makes them a very questionable choice for many of the applications. The possible medical complications that may arise from the difficulty of treating these wounds may also be a concern.

A lot of people want P90s or MP-7s in their armory. FN and HK are pushing the products hard. Web pages and Reviews sing their praises and some impressive claims are made for the performance of these rounds but the data and testing tell as different story.

These weapons appear to have no military role that cannot be better met by other weapons. How can it be justified to adopt a weapon system that offers no advantage over current and alternate systems?

Also, just because "insert group" uses this weapon, does not mean it is the best for the job because the people that approve and purchase said weapons might not fully understand the system and did their own research but instead got lured in by advertisements. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:03, 17 August 2017 (EDT)

Going back to the Catacombs, I'm still going with what I said before that John Wick should have used a rifle similar to his 416 clone from the first movie and firing in bursts to push back the enemy as he retreats. Yes, he's John fucking Wick, a man who can take everyone out in the room, but the situation really called for a short rifle and tactics that should have been more military than 3-gun target range shooting. In the first movie, he not only took on more guys after he burned the church vault, but he effectively kept their heads down and suppressed them until one guy had the bright idea of throwing a car at him. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2017 (EDT)

Also, strange is that if he was fully expecting a fight in the catacombs, why did he not put his big guns at the entrance after he escaped Cassian? He basically walked away casually back into the catacombs. He knew ahead of time that they were gonna burn him and brought some bigger guns than his Glock but didn't think hiding his rifle at the entrance before he ran into Ares was a good idea? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2017 (EDT)

:: My main argument in favor for the PDWs was due to size; stopping power is a factor but given all the times he's struggling with both his long guns (especially that M4, which is a ''really'' poor choice for what he's doing) I have to say having a smaller gun wouldn't have been remiss. There's also the fact Wick ''reliably'' shoots everyone twice, whether it's with the Glocks, the P30, the M4, or the AR. Doesn't matter what gun he's carrying, doesn't matter how close he is, he's gonna double tap. Ergo, a big cumbersome rifle only capable of holding 30+1 rounds and a big, cumbersome shotgun capable of holding at ''most'' barely a double digit's worth of shells is automatically going to require more reloading than a PDW capable of carrying at least 40+1 rounds. Remember, Wick shoots everyone twice, so his ammunition consumption is going to be the same for every weapon he uses; therefore, going for compact, high capacity weapons would be a lot more practical than carrying big weapons completely ill-suited for CQC. The AR, given his shooting tendencies, can kill reliably 15 guys, assuming he completely empties his magazine (which he never does), while the M4 can reliably kill less than ''ten.'' The MP7, on the other hand, could drop at least 20, and the P90 could be expected to dispatch 25 enemies, assuming he emptied the weapon; this is fairly close to the number of people he kills during the shootout. As far as the inferiority of the PDW rounds, remember, Wick's weapon of choice is a regular 9x19mm handgun, a round a lot of .45 cultists and other Luddites will insist exists purely for target-shooting; however in the world of John Wick, this is a completely viable primary weapon, capable of getting you through the fight in just about every situation (Wick spends more time shooting 9mms than any other caliber, remember). Given the way the films are made, we could expect Wick to fire no more than two rounds per enemy, and those two rounds to be enough to dispatch that enemy. The more I think about it, the less I think actual ballistics have much to do with how these films are made. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 21:36, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

Again, going to argue against the fact that PDW rounds are meant to be fired in bursts. You need to unload more than 2 for enemies. In fact, a lot of videos of guys like Larry Vickers would say that these basically varmint rounds need be dumped heavily into a target for them to be effective. PDWs are meant to be show stoppers. Close quarter hoses to beat down enemies, but debatable in the sense if they were effective combat weapons. Shooting a person multiple times is part of good training. You don't just shoot a man once or even twice. But the way the P90 and MP7 are built, they were designed to be fired in bursts to hose down enemies in certain situations. An short barreled AR would of been a better choice than his longer gun. I wouldn't say he was struggling with the longer AR, but he did have to swing it around harder because of its length. The corridors of the catacombs were not too narrow for a 10.5 in barrel gun or shorter. As I have written above, a rifle caliber is more powerful even with lost of velocity in a shorter barrel paired with the right ammo. John also employed the over priced Taran Tactical base plates on all his Pmags, giving them 5 more rounds each. There's an awkwardness to reloading and loading the P90 because of how the mag is placed. There is a lost of speed when even you try to speed reload it. I think what we can all agree on is bringing the Benelli M4 was entirely not worth the cool factor. He kept running out of ammo so fast and even the scene pointed out how dangerous it was for him while reloading because of how relentless the enemy were coming. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:06, 4 September 2017 (EDT)
:Wouldn't the 5.7x28mm round be technically more deadly at close range? I heard that it somehow goes through a diagonal-like trajectory in the human body rather than a straight one like the 5.56x45mm round. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:15, 4 September 2017 (EDT)
::Deadlier is subjective as I've pointed out above. Because of the bullpup trigger pull in the P90, it's still not that good in single shot compared to traditional guns. Holding it down to bursts and full auto is really the best thing for counter ambush tactics. I think TV and movies make these PDW rounds more powerful than they really are and make us still think 9mm is nothing special when defensive ammo for 9mm have greatly improved over the passed decade. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:29, 6 September 2017 (EDT)

Remember Wick was forced to use a 1911 at the end of the movie and actually kept on using it at the end when he found a single reload instead of, I don't know....kept the loaded 1911 holstered and pick up a different gun to use as a primary so he would have more ammo by the end. Also surprisingly despite he was picking guns left and right, he had at least 2 chances to pick up rifles from dead guys in the mirror room but decided to stick with his 1911 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:06, 4 September 2017 (EDT)

==Found something pretty fun==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MrnAJsxL8c

--[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 05:19, 15 September 2017 (EDT)

That was great. :D [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:37, 4 March 2019 (EST)

== MP5 and possibly other weapons in catacombs ==

During the catacombs automatic gunfire can be heard, and at least one MP5 is used in this. There is also a production still with an MP5 on IMDB.

[[File:John_wick_2_catacombs_mp5.jpg]]

A production still found on IMDB, which seems to link to Amazon. The MP5 has collapsible stock, and navy trigger group (trigger group markings cannot be seen though).

Direct link
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNzJjZjlmMzUtZWQ1Zi00N2VjLTgzYjYtODRiMzIzNTNiYWQ5XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjM5MDU4OTU@._V1_.jpg

There may be other types of weapon used in the catacombs, but I am not sure (it is dark there). I don't own a bluray copy of this movie.

It will be great if someone with 4K bluray can analyse the weapon in the catacomb and upload those snapshots here. I just took a snapshot from YouTube, which its quality will never be the best.

Talk:John Wick: Chapter 2

2020-03-26T17:42:43Z

Luisiuman1998519: /* MP5 and possibly other weapons in catacombs */ new section

SO MUCH YES --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 21:24, 6 October 2016 (EDT)
:I KNOW!!! [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:43, 7 October 2016 (EDT)
::The hype is real!--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 20:44, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:::And then there's me: I think the film looks generic.--[[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]] ([[User talk:SeanWolf|talk]]) 21:17, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
::::It really is, but it's not how original a story can be. The best thing you can do to a generic type of character is to have pretty good acting and for us here, awesome gun play and John Wick is awesome at the gun play. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:59, 12 October 2016 (EDT)
So, any special reason he's using some fancy Glock and AR-15 from a company no one has heard of? Why not give him his old P30 and HK416 back? Why do armorers keep buying overpriced Glocks with fancy aftermarket parts?--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 23:35, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:::Taran Tactical isn't an unknown company. It might not be as famous or infamous as Salient, but it's known enough in some circles. They also trained Will Smith for Suicide Squad. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:11, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure Keanu Reeves trained with them for the movie.--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:35, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
::I've heard somewhere that Keanu Reeves has some sort of share in Taran Tactical. --[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 01:12, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
:[https://www.facebook.com/TaranTactical/videos/1129178030434266/ Yep]. They even had a [https://www.facebook.com/TaranTactical/posts/1291057160913018 contest perfect for us].--[[User:Quarax|Quarax]] ([[User talk:Quarax|talk]]) 00:39, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
::Here's the same [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpr8oqyjKIc video]on youtube for those who loathe facebook. Anyway, i think those tacticooled glocks sorta fit in a silly movie like John Wick. Then again, the only other movies where i've ever seen these types of pimped guns are the Transformers movies and 13 hours.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 09:23, 9 October 2016 (EDT)
:::It makes a sort of sense in a way of people of expensive groups will buy expensive things, including guns if need be. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 09:59, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
::: One of the unseen henchmen on the poster (on the right) appears to be holding a P30L with the same compensator from the first film. --[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 11:00, 9 October 2016 (EDT)

Here's another vid of him training with Aaron Cohen, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RKISkjMtPU [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 17:00, 12 October 2016 (EDT)

==Poster Weapons==
[[Image:JohnWick2 cover.jpg|thumb|none|400px|The film's first official poster features several firearms: a sawed-off [[Remington 870]], a [[Heckler & Koch P30L]] (fitted with the same compensator from the [[John Wick|first film]]), a [[Beretta 92FS]], two [[Beretta 92FS Inox]]es, two [[Beretta 90Two]]s, and several customized [[Colt M1911]] variants (one of which is obviously a replica with a visible parting line).]]

== Please help ID ==

Please help ID this launcher. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] ([[User talk:Ben41|talk]]) 14:30, 19 December 2016 (EST)
[[File:JW2 304.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:JW2 305.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
::Looks like an [[ARWEN 37]] to me.--[[User:BlackHawk510|BlackHawk510]] ([[User talk:BlackHawk510|talk]]) 15:09, 19 December 2016 (EST)
::: It was definitely an ARWEN 37, even got to see the loading process. --[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 07:39, 13 February 2017 (EST)

== Glock ==
Looks like the Glock that was used in this film is currently on display at SHOT Show:
https://scontent.fdet1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15977767_10154301140996134_2975412249705260393_n.jpg?oh=e720456e623db93a6644ca3c46a432c9&oe=591FE97A

[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 12:05, 19 January 2017 (EST)
:Cool--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:38, 19 January 2017 (EST)
::Apparently he's also carrying a Taran Glock 26 too, if Glock themselves are to be [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/26/glock-movies-shot-2017/ believed.]--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 10:07, 27 January 2017 (EST)

:There's a short clip ad of the scene where John Wick talks to the gun guy about what gun recommendations. He suggested a Glock 34, a Glock 26 as well as an "AR-15" and Benelli M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:57, 27 January 2017 (EST)
::Got a link to that clip?--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 11:36, 27 January 2017 (EST)
::I've been trying to look for it, but it only appears as an ad every time I watch a Youtube vid. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:28, 27 January 2017 (EST)

Nevermind. Found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgxWQADcWXI [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:29, 27 January 2017 (EST)
:That's neat. I guess all those guns have some Taran tactical thing going on with them...--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 15:18, 27 January 2017 (EST)

== Armory ==

[[File:JW2Armory1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:JW2Armory2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Grabbed a couple more shots of the armory from the trailer. Does anyone know what the rifles that are hanging horizontally are? I can't place them, and it's bugging me.
--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 11:45, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:Beretta AR70/90?--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:16, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:: Yep, seems like a AR70/90--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] ([[User talk:Flavio|talk]]) 13:56, 3 February 2017 (EST)
:::Looks like the 90 to be specific.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 14:31, 3 February 2017 (EST)

: In Picture #1 I see several Glock 17s on the top shelf and what looks like a Glock 17L on the very far right. The shelf below that has a compact SIG P220 series handgun (not sure which), a VP9, and two empty spots which is likely where John got his two Glocks below. The one below that has two Beretta 92 handguns, and another that I can't identify (looked ''kind of'' like a compact Walther P99 or Springfield XD but I don't think it is.) The bottom shelf is mostly unidentifiable but the one on the furthest right looks kind of like a HK Mark 23 to me. Leaning against that shelf is an M79. The right most shelf has more Glock 17s, two two-tone SIG-Sauer P226s, and a Beretta 93R. There's another 93R and a Px4 on the one below that.
: In Picture #2 I see MP5Ks, two of which have compensators attached and several Uzis/Mini-Uzis. To the right of those are a bunch of MP5s, some of which have Surefire lights installed. Can't identify the shotguns, sadly.
--[[User:Sergeant Simpleton|Sergeant Simpleton]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Simpleton|talk]]) 21:02, 3 February 2017 (EST)
::There's also a Beretta PM12 in between the MP5Ks and Uzis. Most of the guns on the bottom are hard to ID, but there's a couple of obvious M4/M16 variants.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] ([[User talk:Lynx|talk]]) 10:58, 5 February 2017 (EST)
:::Two of those tall shotguns are Benelli M4s, and it looks like there are two SG553s behind them, in addition to regular Beretta AR 70s.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 11:47, 5 February 2017 (EST)

== Just saw it ==

So let me start by saying that if you're a fan of the first, chances are you'll love this one, I did. The action was beautifully choreographed and shot, and the world of the continental was expanded upon really well. Now for the guns I saw. Bear with me because the movie moved really fast and a lot of guns were used, but this is what I remember.

-HK P30L - Same gun from the first movie, used by John in the opening fight briefly. Later seen buried under John's floor.

-Kel-Tech KSG - Seen briefly being buried underneath John's floor in the beginning.

-Coharie Arms CA-415 - Buried alongside the KSG and another gun I couldn't identify.

-Glock 26 - Also seen alongside the P30L being buried.

-ARWEN 37 - Used by Santino in the beginning of the film. Portrayed as an explosive grenade launcher.

-Glock 34 - Main sidearm used by John in Rome, Had either the TTI or Salient modification. It was specifically referred to as the Glock 34 by "The Sommelier" (armorer). He also mentioned it's Austrian roots as well as the German roots of the P30.

-Glock 27 - Also used by John in Rome. Also provided by The Sommelier. It may have been a Glock 26 but I seem to remember him calling it the 27, I could be wrong though. Used in a fistfight with Cassien.

-Benelli M4 - Also used by John in Rome. Also provided by The Sommelier. Referred to by name and it's Italian roots are directly mentioned.

-TTI TR-1 - Final weapon used by John in Rome (I believe). Once again, provided by The Sommelier. He refers to it as an AR-15, and the specifications of it's attachments were mentioned but unfortunately I cannot remember them. Also appears to be used by Ares men in the final battle

-Kimber Warrior - Used by John as well as countless other assassins including Ares ([[Ruby Rose]]). Seen in both suppressed and unsuppressed modes, both of which are used by John. The Bowery King ([[Laurence Fishburne]]) provides one to John before the climax. He specifically refers to it as a "Kimber 1911" and also mentions it's seven round capacity, which also annoys John. The final gun John handles in the film.

-Grey Glock? - Used by Cassien ([[Common]]) while pursuing John through New York. Appeared to be a grey Colored Glock with a matching grey suppressor. Could be a custom gun or could be something entirely different, I didn't get a clear look at it.

-Various handguns - Used by multiple assassins attempting to kill John in New York. Appeared to be an assortment of Glocks, Kimbers, and HKs in suppressed and unsuppressed forms. Didn't get a clear view of them. John procures many of them from the assassins he kills throughout.

-Beretta Cheetah - Appeared to be used by one of The Bowery King's men who saves John. Seen suppressed. Also used, unsuppressed, by Santino D'Antonio ([[Riccardo Scamarcio]])

-Bowery King arsenal - Various weapons, many the same as seen earlier in the film, however I did notice what appeared to be an RPG-7 in one of the racks.

-Glock 17 - Carried by nearly all of Santino's men. Multiple are used by John in the finale, with him procuring a new one every time he runs out of ammo in the previous one.

-Sig SG 550 and 552 - Used by Ares' men in the finale. Some appeared to lack rear iron sights.

Thats about it. Cassien used a handgun during his fight with John in Rome, but I never got a clear view of it. Also in the finale Ares's men used a collection of AR-15s and I believe a few SMGs. I couldn't quite tell what models the SMGs were, however they appeared to be HKs and also lacked rear iron sights, though I could just be rememebering the Sigs and imagining that they used SMGs (Quite likely to be honest, It was a late showing and I'm fairly tired). I'm sure I missed several guns, as like I said this was a gun heavy movie, however i will comment that many of the same models appeared repeatedly, probably props being reused. Both The Bowery King and The Sommelier had large arsenals with numerous guns I was unable to Identify. Sorry for missing some things, the movie moved at a breakneck pace and I didn't always have time to appreciate the action on screen and notice what guns we're being used.--[[User:1911isthebestgunever|One shot is all it takes.]] ([[User talk:1911isthebestgunever|talk]]) 05:09, 10 February 2017 (EST)
:The Sommelier mentions that Wick's AR-15 has a Trijicon Accupoint, but I don't remember him specifying the exact model. Also, regarding The Sommeliers arsenal, I believe the rifles in the background are Beretta AR70/90's.--[[User:Aidoru|Aidoru]] ([[User talk:Aidoru|talk]]) 17:43, 13 February 2017 (EST)

I just saw it and I am pretty sure Cassien's grey glock was actually an Arsenal Strike One, It had a distinctive step down forward of the ejection port. You get a short but clear view of it when Cassien does an ammo check in the subway shootout. --[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 14:34, 12 February 2017 (EST)

We also need a photo of TTI's Glock 34 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:23, 14 February 2017 (EST)

:They showed them off at the SHOT Show
:TTI Glock 34
:http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/20170117_124643-600x537.jpg
:TTI Glock 26
:http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/20170117_124607-600x341.jpg
Also there was a picture (cut away drawing?) of a H&K MG4 with a G36 Hensoldt AG Sight/carrying handle in Laurence Fishburne's office.
:--[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]] ([[User talk:Insertjjs|talk]]) 15:40, 15 February 2017 (EST)

The 1911 that Ares uses is a S&W 1911 either a PD or an SC model I'm leaning towards a PD full size. Also the gun John uses at the very end seems to be some kind of Kimber with a custom compensator. [[User:Serpico1911|Serpico1911]] ([[User talk:Serpico1911|talk]] 03:38, 15 February 2017 (CST)
:Finally got to see it. To think they weren't going to show this movie in sweden! Thank god they did! It blew my dick off! Liked alot of things in it, but one thing that stood out to me was that i've never seen an action movie like this were the main character reloads as often as he does. Also, don't know if this is the case, but i watched this with a friend and he counted that in the Museum scene (when Wick is switching between guns left and right) he only shot the various pistols he picked up ten times before they ran out.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 18:07, 24 February 2017 (EST)
::Just saw it too, my jaw hit the floor when Keanu did the [[Killing Floor 2]] style ''one-handed'' brass check on a 1911 before entering the hall of mirrors towards the end.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 01:31, 25 February 2017 (EST)
:::The only other movie ive seen someone do that style of brass check before is The way of the gun. Can't think of any movie where someone brass checked guns as often as this one--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:28, 25 February 2017 (EST)
::::Only movies that come to mind for brass checking is pretty much anything by Michael Mann, particularly Heat, but not as much as this film. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] ([[User talk:Bristow8411|talk]]) 18:29, 25 February 2017 (EST)

I'd say that Ares's pistol is a SW1911SC variant. I say this because we get a good look at the slide a few times, and it has the particular slide serrations of the SC series of SW1911's. It also seemed to have a black slide, but a stainless steel frame, but I could be wrong, saw the film last night. Loved it.--[[User:Bauer2121|Bauer2121]] ([[User talk:Bauer2121|talk]]) 13:05, 26 February 2017 (EST)

== 1911s ==

I'm pretty sure that the 1911 used by Ares is a S&W. I remember in one shot you could clearly see the extractor and the fish scale type serrations. I can't recall exactly what happened, but after John beats Ares to a pulp, he takes her 1911, but later when he's at the continental and shoots that guy with it, the 1911 he used is some variant with a compensator. Unless she was carrying two different 1911s, this might be a continuity error.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 12:19, 2 March 2017 (EST)

Your right. I remember watching this a second time that Ares had a suppressor on hers and clearly no compensator so...either a deleted scene or he just got a completely different 1911. I remember he frisked Ares for a spare mag and reloaded it since it was empty but when he used it at the Continental, it locked back, meaning he had fired all but one round so...I think there must be a deleted scene involved or something or just bad continuity, which is surprising for a movie like this. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:46, 2 March 2017 (EST)

Other than the final scene where we know for a fact that it's a Kimber 1911 as we can plainly see, I think all other 1911s should be in a separate section under 1911. Cassian's 1911, Ares' and the one John used in the subway fight [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 15:58, 2 March 2017 (EST)
:Yeah, lumping the S&W 1911 together with the Kimber is just confusing.--[[User:AnActualAK47|AnActualAK47]] ([[User talk:AnActualAK47|talk]]) 16:27, 2 March 2017 (EST)

I have a pic. that could be from the supposed deleted scene but not sure how to upload the photo to here if anyone could help with that. [[User:Serpico1911|Serpico1911]] ([[User talk:Serpico1911|talk]] 00:37, 4 March 2047 (CST)
: On the left side of the screen, Toolbox, Upload File.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 05:46, 4 March 2017 (EST)
[[File:FB IMG 1487413440638.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[File:FB IMG 1488634970915.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[User:Serpico1911|Serpico1911]] ([[User talk:Serpico1911|talk]] 07:41, 4 March 2017 (CST)

Smith and Wesson SW1911 E-Series?
[[File:SW1911SC E series stainless slide.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 18:26, 4 March 2017 (EST)

I have found what resembles the compensated reversed two-tone 1911 John used in the final scene. As far as I can see, the grips are unique to the Kimber Team Match II and I couldn't find any other after market grips that looks like it. Take a look at the screencap I took from youtube below (sorry for low quality).
[[File:Kimber Team Match II.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]
[[File:John wick 2 compensated 1911.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Note the grips and the black ambi safety. The markings on the slide are missing, though.]]
Still, we have to wait until the DVD is released to be able to correctly Identify it.
--[[User:Kliwher|Kliwher]] ([[User talk:Kliwher|talk]]) 21:40, 6 May 2017 (EST)
:OK, got an update on the compensated 1911 it is definitely not a Kimber, it has slanted rear serrations, no front serrations, black controls, slide cuts, wood and rubber/plastic hybrid grips, and bushing compensator. It is also loaded with 10-round magazine.
:--[[User:Kliwher|Kliwher]] ([[User talk:Kliwher|talk]]) 20:34, 11 June 2017 (EST)
--[[User:RickB|RickB]] ([[User talk:RickB|talk]]) 14:00, 2 June 2019 (EDT)The original two-tone 1911 was the Pachmayr Combat Special, with a blued slide over a hard-chromed frame, so silver-over-black is "reverse two-tone".

== The Custom AR-15 ==

The Sommelier refers to the Taran Tactical AR-15 as "11.5" inch - assuming he's referring to the barrel length, that can't be right surely? It looks much longer than that - closer to a regular size, 14.5 inch M4, if not longer.
Am I seeing things, or did someone make a mistake?
--[[User:Stickie|Stickie]] ([[User talk:Stickie|talk]]) 23:17, 28 May 2017 (EDT)

I sent a message to TTI to confirm, but it could be an 11.5 in barrel with a big compensator that's throwing off the overall length. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:47, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

== Shooting like a 3 gunner ==

Is it me or compared to the nightclub scene from the first movie and the Vania scene in this one, John either tac reloads his gun and then shoots until he's out of bullets and out of spare mags while in this movie, I counted, he shot roughly half a mag, barely with those TTI extensions before dumping the mags entirely, most likely still with a lot of bullets and then retrieving a fresh mag from basically an unlimited supply unlike the first movie where he had a very limited amount. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's got 4 spare mags PLUS a spare AR mag...that's still not enough mags for the many reloads he did with his Glock. Compared to the first movie on how he reloads his pistol, it looks like the habits from competition target shooting (the idea to just dump your mag and get a fresh one, regardless of how many rounds are left) were carried over to this movie. The only time he didn't constantly reload his gun is during the final shootout where he kept picking up guns after emptying a new one he picks up. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:16, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

I also question why a shotgun? He could of hid caches of extra AR mags all along his escape route. It's very cool how he worked the M4, but it illustrates how he ran out of ammo quick and had to do reloads more often than if he had hidden more AR mags. It even showed that during his quick reloads, he was exposed. I wonder why Taran Butler didn't teach him a more combat reloading technique like chambering a shell and loading the rest with the thing tucked under instead of over the shoulder that's more akin to competition shooting. I bet if the prop guys also sourced High Threat Concealment, they could of had John wearing a metal plate under his shirt and get one of their magnetic chest carriers for AR mags and just slap it on, giving him more rounds [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:16, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

To add more, I'm looking at the final fight in the mirror room (reminded me of something from a Bond movie and a Bruce Lee movie, especially with the villain taunt). There were multiple chances for him to pick up a long gun or additional handguns when his 1911 ran empty, but he didn't even though he had plenty of time. Also before entering the mirror room, he reloaded his 1911, which was good because the holster he's wearing is most likely only for a 1911, but why didn't he pick up another Glock as his primary until it ran dry? Or stuff extra mags from the dead guy in his pocket?[[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:28, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

:Yeah, it kinda bugged me that he didn't just bring a bag of mags along for his AR-15. You can get [https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/galati-gear-rifle-magazine-pouch-30-40-round-mags-six-pocket-shoulder-strap-nylon-black-glmp40-753182476940.do?green=54F3E6C9-EA95-5836-01AB-54A906029273 bandoleers] [https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/voodoo-tactical-m4-ar-15-six-magazine-bandolier-nylon-od-green-20-992804000-783377097476.do?sortby=ourPicksAscend&refType=&from=fn or] small [https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/blackhawk-rifle-bandoleer-holds-6-m4-ar15-mags-black-55sos1bk-648018019951.do?sortby=ourPicksAscend&refType=&from=fn chest rigs] that hold 6 mags. And I will always consider the use of a magnifying optic in a nighttime CQB situation stupid. Worse, the entire scene was pointless. John ninjaed his way in undetected and then didn't leave the way he came. Alternatively, just carrying a subcompact he might have convinced Cassian he wasn't there to fight. Or just don't admit you're working. --[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 18:02, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

::Again, I go back to HTC with their magnetic chest rigs that you can just slap over your body armor plate. The movie allowed John to attach a fancy 3 gun style belt with spare shotgun shells. You're telling me, he couldn't throw on some kind of bandoleer for extra AR mags? If they really wanted him to go all out with the shotgun, he could of had a sling with shells attached to it for extra firepower. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:42, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

:And yes, only in three-gun would you use a 16" carbine with a scope and side-mount red dot. Really the whole use of custom guns from TTI screams "three-gun with little real-world value". Unless I missed something, nobody actually uses angled foregrips, side-mount red dots/iron sights, or $2k in parts on a $500 pistol. And the entire point of a 16" barrel is going as short as legally possible without extra paperwork. The one three-gun accessory he didn't use but should have is a pistol red dot. They're finally at the point you can depend on them to work reliably without being too large (seriously, go look up some of the older movies on here. 80s/90s attempts at lasers and red dots are hilarious) and work better in low light and are more accurate. Oh, and buy yourself a 40 round PMag, not a mag extension. On a side note, caching a Minimi Para with an 200 round belt means no reloads and hilarious firepower.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 18:19, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

::I have actually seem some US Army training vids where there was actually an angled red dot. I've seen Marines with AFGs on their rifles. There's nothing wrong with a 1x6 power scope on your fighting rifle but that's for varied ranges outdoors. He KNEW he was gonna be fighting in the catacombs at extremely close range, so just a simple red dot would work just fine or if he really needed range, a magnifier that he can flip on and off could work. Realistically, they should have just slapped John with the same 416 clone from the first movie with a micro red dot with the same short 10.5 in barrel and he'd still perform just as well. For flare, they could of added a silencer to it. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]])

I do like the idea that he should have set up traps. Remember in Shoot'em Up where Cllve Owens basically turned an entire gun factory into an automatically shooting gallery of guns all over the place? You're telling me John fucking Wick couldn't afford some well placed claymores or grenades? I'm still harping on the M4 shotgun. It's a good gun and even ghost loading it with an extension tube. He had like what? 9 + 1 shells maybe? Couldn't the Sommelier have recommended something bolder and bigger like say a Saiga 12 or bring back the AA-12 with frag-12s? Both being magazine fed shotguns that gives you a faster reload time and higher capacity?

I mean, I understand these fantasy assassins are like fantasy knights where instead of custom designer fantasy swords of epic loot, they got custom guns. If money didn't matter, the TTI handguns are awesome, just as cool and functional as Salient or Agency Arms but to us lowly average joes, we can't afford all most of them. I've got mag extensions for my Glock and more as a fashion than practicality. There are much cheaper options for mag extensions that don't cost the price of 2 mags. The price for the TTI Pmag extensions is about the exact same price as a Pmag 40. I don't have mag extensions on any of my rifles because they are just pricey and if I really needed more rounds, I got a couple PMAG40s lying around. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:29, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

Also remember at the end of the movie, he was shooting stock guns with no fancy trigger jobs done to them and he still performed just as good. In fact, it's because he was shooting stock guns is that we aren't so distracted by the guns he's using. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:45, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

Good point about the accessories. The 1-6x would have been fine in another setting. He couldn't use his 416 this time, but any AR platform would have been fine. Giving a professional a 16" AR is kinda SOD-breaking, he has no reason to use that length. And I have no idea why they had to give John all the super cool name-brand custom stuff this time. He did just fine with stock guns in the first movie. And yeah, PMag 40 would be better than some extensions. Mini-claymores are a thing BTW.--[[User:Mandolin|Mandolin]] ([[User talk:Mandolin|talk]]) 19:09, 9 June 2017 (EDT)
:Like I've pointed out before, I think they are going with this "fantasy assassin" world where it's more spectacular than actually realistic and when I mean fantasy, I mean stuff that real assassins really shouldn't use, like flashy weapons. I can totally see someone in RPG give gaming stats to his guns because of how special they look like if you picked up some kind of hero sword. If this was like fictional tactical, we'd be seeing him rocking NODs and an MK18 with IR lasers [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:24, 12 June 2017 (EDT)
::He actually fired 11 shells from the Benelli M4 before it got emptied. Also, any news about the statement of the 11.5 inch barrel for the TTI TR-1 AR-15? (pretty sure it's incorrect) --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 18:19, 25 June 2017 (EDT)
: There's a decent number of PDs with 16 inch trunk rifles, but all those are going to be semi-only (but a non-government professional could totally have stolen one and tacticooled it up himself. That would be a good scene for a film). --[[User:VladVladson|VladVladson]] ([[User talk:VladVladson|talk]]) 19:37, 25 June 2017 (EDT)
:::Also, I see that someone added to the page that the Benelli can hold a maximum 7+1 shells in reality, but there are actually 10-round tubes in existence. In this regard, do they hold 9+1 shells or 10+1? ---[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 07:25, 2 July 2017 (EDT)
::::EDIT: I think it's 9+1, so Wick fired one round more than possible. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:05, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

==The Catacombs==

Overall I have to say I just didn't enjoy this movie as much. John isn't anywhere near as sympathetic, for one thing, and the choreography for the fights doesn't seem as good, with lots of extras reacting to getting shoot really poorly, before slowly getting back up and keeping on (the mirror fight specifically comes to mind). What really brings this home, though, is the fight in the catacombs. The idea itself doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, and on top of that it's too dark to see what's going on a lot of times. It feels more like an effort to show off Keanu Reaves's impressive three gun credentials, like the Red Circle fight was to show off how cool CAR can be, except, again, the Red Circle scene is better executed. Like the post above, I'm seriously questioning his weapon choices.

For handguns, the Glock at least sort of makes sense, although I don't get why he didn't just dig up his P30 and Glock 26 from the first film, since honestly both are much cooler weapons. For that matter, why a 17 and not an 18? Is there any reason you can't do any of the recoil compensation on a machine pistol like that, because I'd think the selective fire would be more useful as a primary weapon, which Wick seems to favor the handgun for.

I don't get the shotgun at all. The M4 is just ''big'' and despite being semiauto it's also cumbersome, especially since Wick expends at least two shells per target because of his silly habit of double tapping everyone (I'd think if you shot a man at point blank with a twelve gauge in the chest, you probably don't need to shoot him in the head too). Even with that in mind, I think a KSG (like he used in the first film) or even better, a DP-12, would be a much better choice, because of the bullpup layout. He almost loses the M4 because he corners with it and someone grabs the barrel, which wouldn't be as likely with a shorter gun; the DP has the added bonus of letting him still double tap people despite being pump action, and it's an unusual and exotic enough gun it fits him a lot more than a run of the mill M4.

The rifle is completely unnecessary. He stashes it specifically for CQB, which makes no sense given that it's got a long barrel and a semi-fixed stock; it feels very much like a medium engagement weapon which isn't what it's used for ''at all.'' It's big and cumbersome and it doesn't really feel like it's employed the way it should've been. Why not carry a carbine, like an actual M4, or a PDW like the UMP or I dunno, a P90? The last one seems the best choice for the ranges he's engaging in, since it's smaller, is going to perform comparably to the AR at the ranges he's firing (if not better, since a few times he's almost at point blank and a rifle round, so far as I know, would be more likely to over penetrate and do minimum damage), and has a higher capacity. The only real advantage an AR has over the P90 in this area is the AR is easier to reload, but the P90 has almost twice the capacity, so reloading wouldn't be as big a deal. Plus, I want to see John Wick tactically reload one, so I have some idea how you actually accomplish that.

In all, I feel like the Glock is reasonable, the M4 is a adequate, and the AR is a poor choice. If nothing else, I can see justifying the AR for potential ranged engagements (and Wick, to the films' credit, seems to eschew automatic weapons) but I'd dump the M4 in favor of something more practical, like a P90 or MP7 (for flexibility's sake). The M4's only real advantage over either is it can be used as a club in CQC when it's empty, which isn't really an advantage at all since it highlights the weapon's low capacity, cumbersome size, and awkward reloading process. Anyone agree?--[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 20:15, 7 August 2017 (EDT)

:I don't think he could "dig up" his old weapons from the first film because his house got blown up by Santino, which would probably make that a wee bit difficult. I also think his AR does have a carbine length barrel if I recall correctly, and there isn't any real difference if he was using an "M4" in semi-auto versus an AR15.--[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:49, 8 August 2017 (EDT)

:: The Glock and P30 are both under concrete in the basement, while Santino only destroyed the house down to its foundations, so there's no reason to think anything below that would've been damaged. I still think the AR just by nature was a poor choice even so, since he doesn't really have any reason to be carrying a rifle in that situation. By "long barrel" I mean it's still a rifle: it's still big and hard to corner with. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 00:03, 9 August 2017 (EDT)

::A P90 is a pretty poor choice, mostly because of the round. It's been shown to not be much of a man stopper and would need to dumb several rounds into someone to be as effective as a full rifle round, same with the MP7. These are very specialized guns meant for certain situations, not a full blown fire fight in reality, especially the MP7. An AR is a pretty ideal weapon, but in the catacombs, he really should have gotten a shorter weapon. His 416 looking weapon was an actual 10.5 inch barrel rifle. That's pretty good for close quarters. Taran Tactical, the company that designed the weapon, did make a shorter barrel gun that was shown in The Fate of the Furious. He really did not needed a scope underground and in close quarters. He should have gotten more mags stashed away for the AR since it was much more effective than the slower firing and less capacity shotgun he got. Most likely they gave him these guns is because he trained to hell with them in the video. He used the exact same set up in those training videos and that's why all his moves are very competition style, which I had pointed out. The slide in his Glock did not lock back once during the initial fight and he was not retaining partially empty mags and seemed to have an endless supply of them compared to the first movie where he actually ran out of ammo during the Red Circle fight. I think it was discussed before where there's a ton of options for a cheap mag carrier where he can just throw on during the chaos and have several more mags to feed his AR.

I think an MPX would have been a good choice as a secondary gun over the shotgun he decided on. He did train with the MPX, at least a longer barreled on in the vids, but he could totally use the shorter barrel on and go to town. It really wouldn't be heard for him to put a Magpul D60 for his AR and then switch to Pmags [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:47, 11 August 2017 (EDT)

:::Actually, he didn't have THAT much of ammo supply for the Glock. He reloads two times in the party, and then fires 13 rounds (after that he ejects the magazine, checks the ammo and loads it back before entering the catacombs). Then in the catacombs, he must have fired 9 rounds (or 8 if it's Ares who unintentionally shot her own henchman lol); assuming he didn't previously reload, that's 22 rounds (or 21); I'm not sure what capacity the particular extended baseplate is supposed to give to the G34, though. He reloads afterwards, and then (also assuming he doesn't reload between using the AR-15 and the Benelli) he fires exactly 22 rounds. He must have reloaded off-screen when he exited the catacombs since he fires around 13 rounds when Cassian arrives with his car. That would be reasonably 4 spare mags. Weird thing though, is that before falling down the stairs, Wick tried to run away despite the fact that he had AMPLE time to draw his backup Glock 26. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 09:34, 17 August 2017 (EDT)
::::EDIT: The TTI website indicates the availability of Glock +3/4 and +5/6 base pads (the former adds 4 extra rounds in 9x19mm and 3 in .40 ACP, while the latter adds 6 in 9x19mm and 5 in .40 ACP). With the latter, it would be reasonably 23+1 rounds for the Glock 34. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:05, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

:: The P90 and MP7 are by definition designed for CQC so I'm not really sure where you're getting they'd be bad for close quarters (if a personal ''defensive'' weapon isn't good for close up, what exactly do you do with it?). From what I've gathered (and this is why SWAT teams, the FBI, and the Secret Service use P90s and MP5s instead of M4s for breaching) a rifle round is far more likely to pass right through someone in close quarters without actually delivering enough lethal force to drop them. This is something you don't want for a number of reasons: if you're a cop you run the risk of that round going on to kill someone you didn't actually mean to shoot, and for John Wick, you run the risk of shooting someone ''several'' times and not actually killing them. ''Black Hawk Down'' mentions the Rangers having this problem during the Battle of Mogadishu, and they were engaging the Somalis at more logical ranges. Plus, he makes it a point of shooting everyone at ''least'' twice (usually once in the leg or chest and then in the head) so arguing against the PDW because he'd have to shoot someone more than once is anti intuitive, since he was doing that anyway, and at least with the PDWs he also would've had considerably more rounds at his disposal before he needed to reload. I do agree with you, though; his weaponset here is very clearly to showcase Keanu Reeves' badass three-gun skills, but given how poorly choreographed the scene itself is, if anything it feels more like an example of "this is how ''not'' to fight in CQC" than anything else. For the ranges he was shooting at most of the time, he would've probably been okay with just the Glock, and then maybe the M4 Super 90 for longer ranges. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 21:56, 16 August 2017 (EDT)

::Actually, the trend for the passed decade is away from SMGs of any kind in favor of assault rifles because they fire a larger and more potent round.

Going on a tangent here. Forgive me.

The problem with the P90 and even the MP7 is they were developed with the then current mindset and ammunition technology. You mention the Secret Service but even though they also use MP5s and P90s, that's more for firepower offered by a small package than actual effectiveness of the round it shoots as in full auto shooting of a bunch of bullets at something. Think about it. PDW rounds vs a 55.6 are smaller caliber, uses a lighter bullet, has a lower velocity, lower energy and has a lower sectional density. To be as effective as a 5.56, you would need to dump a bunch of rounds onto a target. All of these properties suggest that the PDW rounds will be more prone to drop and wind drift than the 5.56mm and have a more curved trajectory and longer flight time. This suggests a lower hit probability. The terminal effects of these rounds is also likely to be less than the 5.56mm, given that both rounds have considerably less energy and momentum at the muzzle than the 5.56mm has. Comparatively, a 9mm is actually more powerful than any PDW round, especially against unarmored targets unlike how PDWs are designed to penetrate body armor. Their purpose and energy is meant for getting passed the body armor and everything else is secondary, despite what advertisements have shown you. Remember, there is no off switch when you shoot a man in real life. We can add that to movie cliche, but in real life, getting shot even center pass is not what stops you and considering that John Wick likes to shoot people in the head, it kinda doesn't matter what caliber he's shooting because the character is so perfect at making effective kill shots.

Your brought up Blackhawk down, but remember the military uses FMJs that are general ok against most people despite the stigma surrounding it. Any type of bullet less than a 50is gonna have a problem against drug crazed fiends and savage fighters. It doesn't matter if you shoot a 5.56 with JHPs or a .45 out of a UMP. If the guy's rampaging towards you, it isn't like the movies where 1 shot to the chest from the big boy round would stop them, let alone a round that's much smaller, faster but designed to fly straight through heavy things like armor than soft things like flesh.

If you want a close range anti-body armor weapon why buy a new weapon and round that doesn't perform as well as the weapons and rounds that you have already? The argument that the PDWs are shorter than an assault rifle doesn't hold when there are so many short-barreled versions of assault rifles on the market. There are also 5.56mm weapons of similar size to a Machine Pistol and capable of being fired one handed even. In addition to using a more effective and widely available round there are other advantages to using 5.56mm, such as the weapon having exactly the same controls as the rifle the Soldier did his basic training with. The argument that PDWs are lighter can also be questioned given that there are rifles on the market that weigh only 4lb with a 16” barrel. Many 5.56 assault rifles only weigh a pound or so more than the MP-7 or P90 yet fire rounds with around four times the muzzle energy, greater penetration and greater terminal effectiveness.

For the role that the PDWs were supposedly designed for, the defense of support troops, the P90 and MP-7 are inferior to a 5.56mm carbine. 5.56mm carbines of similar weight and bulk to the P90 and MP-7 already exist. As CQB weapons against unarmored targets the MP-7 and P90 are inferior in performance to 9x19mm, .45ACP and 5.56mm weapons. Whether a weapon with such a low level of incapacitation can legitimately be called a defensive weapon is debatable.

As a CQB weapon against armored targets the MP-7 and P90 are inferior to 5.56mm weapons.

An argument that has been made is that the lighter weight of the 4.6mm ammo reduces the soldier's load. A MP-7 and six 40rd magazines weighs less than a 5.56mm rifle and six 30rd magazines. Less weight and a third more ammo sounds pretty good.

The flaw in this argument is the assumption that ammo expenditure for 4.6mm and 5.56mm will be the same.

Be it a video game or real life psychologically you tend to keep shooting a target until it goes down or demonstrates that it is out of the fight in some other way (Known charmingly as “F3” or “Fire till the F**ker Falls”).

Given the very large difference in terminal effects between these two rounds I'd say it is highly probable that the 4.6mm shooter is going to fire more rounds at a given target than 5.56mm, especially if the low-recoil automatic capabilities of the MP-7 are used. The target will take longer to fall, so the shooter will keep firing for longer.

Exterior ballistics also are a concern. All its physical characteristics suggest that for shots other than a close range the 4.6mm will be more prone to drop, wind drift and have a longer time of flight and more curved trajectory than 5.56mm. All of that seems to suggest decreased hit probability and a higher expenditure of ammo per target.

The MP7 gunner will probably need twice as many rounds as a 5.56mm rifleman and twice as many would be a very conservative estimate. I wouldn't be surprised if MP7 users end up firing three to four times as much ammo per target.

The P90 and MP-7 are weapons that many members of the military and police are interested in. Claims that the 5.7mm and 4.6mm rounds are superior to those of older weapons do not seem to be borne out by either the manufacturer's own data on the rounds or by testing. These rounds are inferior to the 5.56mm in all respects and 5.56mm weapons exist to fill any niche that the P90 and MP-7 can. The very small levels of permanent damage that these rounds inflict makes them a very questionable choice for many of the applications. The possible medical complications that may arise from the difficulty of treating these wounds may also be a concern.

A lot of people want P90s or MP-7s in their armory. FN and HK are pushing the products hard. Web pages and Reviews sing their praises and some impressive claims are made for the performance of these rounds but the data and testing tell as different story.

These weapons appear to have no military role that cannot be better met by other weapons. How can it be justified to adopt a weapon system that offers no advantage over current and alternate systems?

Also, just because "insert group" uses this weapon, does not mean it is the best for the job because the people that approve and purchase said weapons might not fully understand the system and did their own research but instead got lured in by advertisements. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:03, 17 August 2017 (EDT)

Going back to the Catacombs, I'm still going with what I said before that John Wick should have used a rifle similar to his 416 clone from the first movie and firing in bursts to push back the enemy as he retreats. Yes, he's John fucking Wick, a man who can take everyone out in the room, but the situation really called for a short rifle and tactics that should have been more military than 3-gun target range shooting. In the first movie, he not only took on more guys after he burned the church vault, but he effectively kept their heads down and suppressed them until one guy had the bright idea of throwing a car at him. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2017 (EDT)

Also, strange is that if he was fully expecting a fight in the catacombs, why did he not put his big guns at the entrance after he escaped Cassian? He basically walked away casually back into the catacombs. He knew ahead of time that they were gonna burn him and brought some bigger guns than his Glock but didn't think hiding his rifle at the entrance before he ran into Ares was a good idea? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:29, 17 August 2017 (EDT)

:: My main argument in favor for the PDWs was due to size; stopping power is a factor but given all the times he's struggling with both his long guns (especially that M4, which is a ''really'' poor choice for what he's doing) I have to say having a smaller gun wouldn't have been remiss. There's also the fact Wick ''reliably'' shoots everyone twice, whether it's with the Glocks, the P30, the M4, or the AR. Doesn't matter what gun he's carrying, doesn't matter how close he is, he's gonna double tap. Ergo, a big cumbersome rifle only capable of holding 30+1 rounds and a big, cumbersome shotgun capable of holding at ''most'' barely a double digit's worth of shells is automatically going to require more reloading than a PDW capable of carrying at least 40+1 rounds. Remember, Wick shoots everyone twice, so his ammunition consumption is going to be the same for every weapon he uses; therefore, going for compact, high capacity weapons would be a lot more practical than carrying big weapons completely ill-suited for CQC. The AR, given his shooting tendencies, can kill reliably 15 guys, assuming he completely empties his magazine (which he never does), while the M4 can reliably kill less than ''ten.'' The MP7, on the other hand, could drop at least 20, and the P90 could be expected to dispatch 25 enemies, assuming he emptied the weapon; this is fairly close to the number of people he kills during the shootout. As far as the inferiority of the PDW rounds, remember, Wick's weapon of choice is a regular 9x19mm handgun, a round a lot of .45 cultists and other Luddites will insist exists purely for target-shooting; however in the world of John Wick, this is a completely viable primary weapon, capable of getting you through the fight in just about every situation (Wick spends more time shooting 9mms than any other caliber, remember). Given the way the films are made, we could expect Wick to fire no more than two rounds per enemy, and those two rounds to be enough to dispatch that enemy. The more I think about it, the less I think actual ballistics have much to do with how these films are made. --[[User:Godzillafan93|That's the Way It's Done]] ([[User talk:Godzillafan93|talk]]) 21:36, 3 September 2017 (EDT)

Again, going to argue against the fact that PDW rounds are meant to be fired in bursts. You need to unload more than 2 for enemies. In fact, a lot of videos of guys like Larry Vickers would say that these basically varmint rounds need be dumped heavily into a target for them to be effective. PDWs are meant to be show stoppers. Close quarter hoses to beat down enemies, but debatable in the sense if they were effective combat weapons. Shooting a person multiple times is part of good training. You don't just shoot a man once or even twice. But the way the P90 and MP7 are built, they were designed to be fired in bursts to hose down enemies in certain situations. An short barreled AR would of been a better choice than his longer gun. I wouldn't say he was struggling with the longer AR, but he did have to swing it around harder because of its length. The corridors of the catacombs were not too narrow for a 10.5 in barrel gun or shorter. As I have written above, a rifle caliber is more powerful even with lost of velocity in a shorter barrel paired with the right ammo. John also employed the over priced Taran Tactical base plates on all his Pmags, giving them 5 more rounds each. There's an awkwardness to reloading and loading the P90 because of how the mag is placed. There is a lost of speed when even you try to speed reload it. I think what we can all agree on is bringing the Benelli M4 was entirely not worth the cool factor. He kept running out of ammo so fast and even the scene pointed out how dangerous it was for him while reloading because of how relentless the enemy were coming. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:06, 4 September 2017 (EDT)
:Wouldn't the 5.7x28mm round be technically more deadly at close range? I heard that it somehow goes through a diagonal-like trajectory in the human body rather than a straight one like the 5.56x45mm round. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 16:15, 4 September 2017 (EDT)
::Deadlier is subjective as I've pointed out above. Because of the bullpup trigger pull in the P90, it's still not that good in single shot compared to traditional guns. Holding it down to bursts and full auto is really the best thing for counter ambush tactics. I think TV and movies make these PDW rounds more powerful than they really are and make us still think 9mm is nothing special when defensive ammo for 9mm have greatly improved over the passed decade. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 10:29, 6 September 2017 (EDT)

Remember Wick was forced to use a 1911 at the end of the movie and actually kept on using it at the end when he found a single reload instead of, I don't know....kept the loaded 1911 holstered and pick up a different gun to use as a primary so he would have more ammo by the end. Also surprisingly despite he was picking guns left and right, he had at least 2 chances to pick up rifles from dead guys in the mirror room but decided to stick with his 1911 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:06, 4 September 2017 (EDT)

==Found something pretty fun==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MrnAJsxL8c

--[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 05:19, 15 September 2017 (EDT)

That was great. :D [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:37, 4 March 2019 (EST)

== MP5 and possibly other weapons in catacombs ==

During the catacombs automatic gunfire can be heard, and at least one MP5 is used in this. There is also a production still with an MP5 on IMDB.

[[File:John_wick_2_catacombs_mp5.jpg]]

A production still found on IMDB, which seems to link to Amazon. The MP5 has collapsible stock, and navy trigger group (trigger group markings cannot be seen though).

Direct link
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNzJjZjlmMzUtZWQ1Zi00N2VjLTgzYjYtODRiMzIzNTNiYWQ5XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjM5MDU4OTU@._V1_.jpg

There may be other types of weapon used in the catacombs, but I am not sure (it is dark there). I don't own a bluray copy of this movie.

It will be great if someone with 4K bluray can analysis the weapon in the catacomb and upload those snapshots here. I just took a snapshot from YouTube, which its quality will never be the best.

File:John wick 2 catacombs mp5.jpg

2020-03-26T17:28:29Z

Luisiuman1998519: The silhouette of an MP5 with a collapsible stock inside the catacombs.

The silhouette of an MP5 with a collapsible stock inside the catacombs.