Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-06-08T20:53:49Z

Long Fallen: /* CQ Weapons Comments */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Just about everything in the military has a designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:10, 10 March 2012 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

Heck, I've got a pair of ammo boxes, and THEY have designations (M19A1). - Wantabs_Warrior38

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - S9771773G 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

More funny stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxsbTjPe2fs&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

More ordinary stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUpUFwV8fM8&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::An LRSR mission with the Barrett like the one in CoD4 would have been awesome to have in BF3. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)
:Holy crap, I thought that was a real Marine in that pic at first! :O [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

When was the screenshot that says "HK53" taken? Shouldn't that be updated with a more recent one that says "G53"? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:46, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah, we never got that patch that the other two platforms did. I'm assuming it'll be rolled into the patch that was originally supposed to come out for all platforms this month, but is now going to be in March at the earliest. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:57, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Nope, here on the PS3 it's still the same, three-mode HK416 and two-mode AN94. DICE has gone on to say that across all consoles the stats are very different; however, the next patch will put all weapons on equal ground across all platforms. -- Long Fallen 02:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags ==
I'm going to add this to the page soon, to replace the Dog Tag Weapons sections I made before, but right now I need sleep. They're sorted by the name of the real weapon in game, not in game name and not name of weapon in the picture, if those are different. If any of you can figure out what the not-actually-a-QBB-95 is, let me know :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 1 March 2012 (CST)

[[Image:BF3_500KillGuns.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

:You have no idea how grateful I am to see this in a neat compilation! Been looking everywhere for just these designs to no avail. -- Long Fallen 02:46, 2 March 2012 (CST)
I think the QBB-95 is a totally made up frankengun. However the core of it is actually an Enfield L85, you can tell by the vent holes on the receiver: 3 horizontal vents at the rear, then a slightly larger gap followed by two slightly smaller vents. Also visible is the raised portion on the bottom edge of the upper receiver which runs horizontally under these vent holes, and the pistol grip and trigger guard seem to match. On top it seems to be a grossly oversized M4/M16A4 detachable carry handle, and the front is anyone's guess. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:56, 2 March 2012 (CST)
::Yeah, I think you're right. It also has the generic bipod most guns in BF3 use, Harris Bipod I think it's called. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== Flash Suppresor ==
I know this is really not important and probably no one cares, but I think the flash suppresor may be a Vltor VC-1. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:15, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:You found it! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:28, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::Not important? Any info is very welcome on this site! In fact, I was wondering this myself. -- Long Fallen 02:48, 2 March 2012 (CST)

::Yeah, most definitely. We welcome clarification on any component or add-on used in the game. IMFDB's priorities are much different than those of game-based wikis. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:31, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Do you guys think we should have a section for the attachments in the game, since there are so many? For most games it wouldn't be necessary, but here there are 12 different optics, the aftermarket irons, KAC foregrip, Harris bipod, six (I think) suppressors, PEQ-2, pistol laser sight, and a tac light. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:53, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:Yes, please include the info on which flash suppressors and other accessories are being used on which guns in the screenshots (as well as an addendum at the end of the page outlining just which real-life firearm accessories are in the game). There are many of us not in the know who would like to learn about them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:32, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

That Javelin dogtag looks so cool. I can't wait to get to 500 kills with it. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:16, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== 3 Expansions planned for BF3 ==

[http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/07/battlefield-3-close-quarters-announced.aspx 3 Expansions planned for BF3]

Newest expansion has 10 new guns, what are you guys thinking/hoping they will be? I'm hoping for a USP, perhaps another pump action shotgun,maybe a TAR or a Galil, and an XM8 (wishful thinking on that last one, but they put the Jackhammer in, so why not?) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 18:20, 7 March 2012 (CST)

EDIT: Can someone fix that link please? I'm not very good at this clearly.

Me being the AR fanboy that I am, I just want a short barreled AR (10 inches prefferably). cheech98 9:28, 7 March 2012

:HK416. I'd like to see another pump shotty and some pistols at the least. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:49, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Already spoken for; the M416 is the 10" 416.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:16, 8 March 2012 (CST)

Definitely a pump shotgun, maybe an Ithica or a Mossberg with wood furniture (because with black furniture it would look too much like the 870). I would like to see an AK in 7.62x39. I was honestly appalled that BF3 didn't feature a .30 cal AK. An MP5, a Hi-Power, a CZ-75 and a SIG-Sauer would also be nice; a non-tacticool FAL, maybe an FNC (always loved that gun), a Skorpion (come on, who doesn't wanna shoot that thing in a video game), the VZ-58, the HK P7 perhaps? The HK33 would be an awesome weapon to see (although admittedly not too plausible), an Uzi (full size or mini, doesn't really matter to me), a Makarov (still common among the Russian Armed Forces, right?), the P99, and MORE REVOLVERS, DAMMIT. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 02:04, 8 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I think if they added the FAL, it wouldn't be tacticool, seeing as how the G3A3 wasn't. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:32, 11 March 2012 (PST)

:Rumours are circulating that two such weapons in Close Quarters Pack are the CZ-75 Automatic is one such pistol as a competition towards the G18 and 93R and a new sniper rifle, the CZ-750 for the Recon. Also two new vehicles rumored are the UH-60 Blackhawk and M2A2 Bradley IFV. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:07, 9 March 2012 (CST)

::But isn't the CQ Pack gonna take place entirely indoors? I'm pretty sure it said somewhere that the four maps in the next pack are going to feture entirely infantry-based, indoors combat. I guess I could see a helicopter working in there somewhere (thinking of the Airport map's chopper-gunners on MW2, I suppose) but it seems like vehicles would break the tense, room-to-room air they're going for here. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 3:56, 13 March 2012 (EST)

The HK33 is actually in the game already, in the Back to Karkand expansion pack as the 'G53' or something like that. *EDIT* Nevermind, you meant the full size rifle, my mistake...
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 12:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

It's gonna be a bunch of CQB guns, no doubt. I'd like to see (Assault Rifles) Tavor TAR-21 and the Masada. (Carbines) AKMs and the AUG A3. (Machine Guns) LSAT and the IMI Negev (Snipers) VSS Vintorez and the DSR-1 (Submachine Guns)MP5 PDW and the Colt R0991 9mm. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 16:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year, I think we are going to have our hands full identifying all them because it ain't just firearms either, they're adding a slew of vehicles with each pack as is the norm with this supposed DLC's. "Close quarters" I think is mostly gonna be all transport vehicles so I suspect, possibly Technicals, Civilian Vehicles, maybe an aerial transport helicopter/plane or light attack scout helicopters, possibly light IFV's too. Weapons are likely to be CQB in nature, I'm hoping for alot of Sub-Machine Gun's and Shotguns, the game needs more Pump Shotguns in my opinion. My general wish-list includes:

* SA58 OSW Battle Rifle and Type 95 Assault Rifle (to round out the Chinese Firepower in BF3, almost the full collection now) for the Assault Kit
* Zastava M92 (Compact AK47 Variant) and the Mark 18 Mod 0 (Ultra compact AR) and possibly the QLZ-87 Automatic Grenade Launcher (as an Anti-Vehicle Weapon, replaces the Rocket Launcher) for the Engineer
* MG3 GPMG and L86A2 (Equivalent to BF3's RPK and M27, gotta have more weapons like those for the Support Kit)
* Mark 12 SPR (American equivalent of the SKS in BF3) and CZ-750 for the Recon
* CZ-75 Auto, H&K MP5, Mossberg 590 Pump Shotgun (if it was a secondary for the Assault I'd be in love with it), TOZ-194, Valtro PM-5, Sawn Off Double Barrel, Benelli M3 Super 90, Smith & Wesson 686, SIG P226, H&K USP, QSZ-92 and FN Five SeveN are just some examples of all kit weapons I'd love to see.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:56, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:If they added the QLZ-87, it would be '''''WAY''''' overpowered. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:28, 12 March 2012 (PST)

:Dunno about the QLZ-87, man. I'd think most Battlefield players are already sick of overpowered, hand-held weapons that can auto-fire frags. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 4:03, 13 March 2012 (EST)

"There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year" 
Thirty weapons in each pack? Are you kidding me? BtK had eight weapons. And how do you know all the packs will have weapons in?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:37, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:Actually, BtK had ten weapons, and he meant at least 30 overall, he just stated it wrong. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 3:28, 9 March 2012 (PST)

They just released a new trailer that shows off some of the weapons in the first expansion pack, I only saw two but there may be more hidden throughout, the ones I saw were the L86A1 and the ACR(I assume it was the ACR, it was however called "ACW-R", I'm seeing a trend with Magpul weapons here with the PDR being renamed the PDW-R. (PS. sorry if I screwed up the formatting, this is my first entry.)
After further searching the complete list seems to be AUG, SPAS-12, ACW-R(ACR), L86A1 LSW, LSAT, MTAR-21, SCAR-L. However some people claim to have spotted the CZ-75 Auto. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 12:38, 13 March 2012 (CET)

:Good catch Spry, I watched the trailer twice carefully and found the same. I'll make it a list so it's easier to see. As with Karkand we should avoid adding anything new to the main page until we have more to add. I'm assuming the same weapon layout as Karkand until I hear something solid about that full auto CZ-75, maybe it has a stock and is a PDW? I'm also assuming what go to what classes, can't really go wrong there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:47, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

*Assault: SCAR-L (misspelled as SCARL-L; I tweeted Demize)
*Assault: AUG (variant unknown)
*Engineer: ACR (as ACW-R, like PDW-R)
*Engineer: MTAR-21
*Support: L86A1
*Support: LSAT
*Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)
*Recon: ???
*All Kit: "M5K" (don't know what it is, described as M5K tactical machine pistol)
*All Kit: SPAS-12

LIST EDITED

::I'm excited to see the AUG and the MTAR, but the ACR and SCAR-L... while I have nothing against them (in fact, I really like them) aren't they a bit... implausible? As for the LSAT... HELL. NO. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:15, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Not sure if this is on the up and up, but people are talking about the Recon weapons being the HK417 and the CZ-750 (these are were supposedly found buried in some code in a leaked beta build), and with both of these weapons having an effective range of about a thousand meters, this seems plausible. However others are claiming there will be no Recon weapons in this expansion, which seems like it would a stupid move on DICE's part. In addition people are saying the ACR will be a carbine with a 25+1 capacity, and that the SCAR-L will be the assault rifle weapon (seems odd to have a the 7.62 variant as a carbine and the 5.56 variant as an assault rifle, but oh well). Others say the second All Kit weapon will be something called an M5K? I'm not sure what that is. Again none of this was shown in the trailer, however some people claim to have seen the CZ-750 in the trailer, but it's such a poor view that it could just as well be the SV-98. Also, BF3 fans work fast, someone made these mock ups of the stats screens for the guns: http://imgur.com/a/iOlAQ [[User:Spry|Spry]] 03:08, 14 March 2012 (CET)

::::After thinking about it a bit, I'm starting to think the M5K is meant to be the MP5K, when you consider that they've renamed a couple of H&K weapons like the HK53 and the HK416, it's plausible that they had some licensing issues with H&K like they seem to have had with Magpul and Glock (No surprise there, considering how notoriously protective Glock is of their brand), So they probably just renamed it the M5K. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 10:29, 14 March 2012 (CET)
:::::Either that, or they misspelled it, like they did the SCAR-L. And if the MP5 doesn't have H&K's name in its name, they probably wouldn't have to rename it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:18, 14 March 2012 (PST)
::::::You also have to take into account that some of the weapons used by said classes in the trailer could just be kits they picked up in the middle of the battle, perhaps to throw off the assertion of which one belongs to who. I'm just glad the L86A1 is in there, finally another British weapon added, just add a Browning Hi-Power or a SIG P226 and I'm set! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:38, 14 March 2012 (CDT)Draco122

An M203A2 would be a nice addition, since the Marines don't use the M320. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:12, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

I thought this belonged here, since we're on the subject of expansions, here's a HUGE list of updates in this upcoming patch.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/#!/bf3/news/view/2832654779195992365/ [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 01:56, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

"Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)" TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:59, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

Does anyone know of any new info on the weapons in the expansion? I still have no idea of what the 2nd recon weapon is (Is recon even getting 2 weapons?). Now I'm hearing the TAR is going to be all-kit? I'm clearly confused. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== L96 Irons?! ==

What in the holy hell is that garbage?! finally a rifle with good iron sights and the stick a SECOND front sight on the end of the receiver rail... for a whopping 7" sight radius... dear god what a disappointment. [[User:Furious Oyster|Furious Oyster]]
:As a side note, that isn't an L96 front sight, looks more like the one that is on the G22 (German variant of the AWM). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:39, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
::Hahaha, that was my reaction too. The sights will be fixed in that big patch that should be out this month. It was on that huge notes list. EDIT: I think the BF3 rifle IS the G22; folding stock & front sight. [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/G22_ohne_Schalldaempfer.jpg here][[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:55, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:AI AW G22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|G22 - .300 Winchester Magnum]]

: question on the L96, what is it chambered in? It should be .300 Winchester Magnum (I think?) but the ingame description says 7.62mmx51mm NATO... [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 00:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
::The standard Arctic Warfare is chambered in either .243 Winchester or 7.62x51mm NATO. However, the in game gun is modelled on a magnum rifle (can tell by the size of the magazine) which is chambered in .300 Winchester of .338 Lapua. The caliber is correct for the name of the gun, but wrong for the model it actually is. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:00, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
:Keep in mind most of the calibres are wrong for the Back To Karkand guns, like the QBs being 5.45mm [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:40, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Shortcuts ==

I was on the 360 Marketplace this week, looking for new Add-ons for any of my games when I came across several for Battlefield 3. They are class specific and cost 560 Microsoft points apiece or you can get the ultimate bundle which includes Air, Ground and Co-Op 'shortcuts' for a whopping 3200 points. What a shortcut entails is basically a free pass to getting ALL of the specific kits weapons, attachments and gadgets thereby bypassing the experience system if someone has the credits.

In short, this is a noob's wetdream. Personally, I think they should rename the Ultimate Shortcut Bundle to the Ultimate Lazy Bastards Bundle. Thankfully all of the shortcuts have been getting pretty low reviews. Thoughts? --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 16:28, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

:Wait, it includes weapon attachments? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:24, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Every other game is dumbed down for casual gamers to blow through in an hour. Why is this any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:51, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Shortcuts are gay. 'nuff said. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 17:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm not too happy about shortcuts either, but did you really have to use gay as a way to insult it? [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42
:Sorry, I forgot gay means "happy" --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:27, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

== SPAS-12 = Pump-Action? ==

I was watching the part of the Close-Quarters Expansion Pack trailer where it showed the SPAS-12, and it looked like it was operating in pump-action mode. Is anyone else disappointed by this? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

I'm actually quite glad, I was quite disappointed with the lack of pump-action shotguns in game. I guess they could say it's an SAS-12 so it's a pump-action only variant in real life. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42

I don't really care, I want more pump actions, but another tube fed semi action shotty too. --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:40, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

:Same here, it's not technically wrong, and since we need at least one more pump shotgun, I'm fine with it. I also think they went with the SPAS-12 because most pump shotguns like 870s, Mossbergs, Ithicas, etc, looks very similar. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:20, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

::True, but they could have done the Tactical version of the Benelli Nova or SuperNova. They look unique enough. Or they could have done the Kel-Tec KSG, except without continuous fire of its two magazines (I'm looking at you, MW3).

What's wrong with a pump shotgun with 12 shots (*EDITED* the Kel-tec KSG)? The street sweeper (DAO-12) has 12 shots AND is semi-auto, then there's the USAS-12 with 10+1 and FULL-auto, a pump action with 12 or 12+1 capicity wounldn't be much of a big deal. - Wantabe_Warrior38

:You think the SPAS-12 has 12 shots? It only has an 8-round magazine. *EDITED* No, when I said "continuous fire", I meant in MW3, you continually fire as if it automatically switched its magazines, instead of actually having to manually switch it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

::Pretty sure he meant the KSG. And yeah, the SuperNova looks pretty sweet, I like the trigger guard :) EDIT: Are there any pump-action mag-fed shotguns? I can't think of any, but that'd be pretty cool, like the M1014 and Saiga-12K. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:30, 9 April 2012 (CDT)
:::There are conversion kits to convert popular pump guns to magazine fed, but they look odd with the magazine being further forward than normal, under the existing magazine tube. There are pump actions that are made with box magazines like the [[Valtro PM5 Shotgun]] series, or the [[Hawk shotgun series]]. There is also the [[Franchi SPAS-15]] which is semi/pump like the SPAS-12. I have also seen Saigas that have been converted to pump action. These are just off the top of my head, there are probably other, more obscure weapons out there. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:47, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

== KH2002 Magazine ==

Is it using the 20 round stanag magazine? Looks like it. If it is, ill mention it on the kh2002 portion of the page
EoghanG93 22-4-12

The in game magazine capacity is 30. So I doubt it would be, someone would've picked up on that mistake by now. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 01:24, 27 April 2012 (CET)

== RPK Mag ==
So, it seems someone screwed up during the development of the patch and now the RPK has an extended mag option that gives it 199+1 rounds :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 11 April 2012 (CDT)
:I think it was a DICE only attachment pre-patch --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 20:02, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

:Doubtful, the MG36 and the QBB are mysteriously missing their "extended mag" attachments, leading to the unfortunate scene of a perpetually capped off Beta C-Mag. :S -- Long Fallen 02:02, 16 April 2012 (CDT)

:The QBB is only supposed to have 75, so that was good, I think they just forgot to up the default capacity of the MG36 when they removed the attachements. Also, those two also got a heavy barrel option, and the AS Val got a 30 round mag option. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:15, 17 April 2012 (CDT)

== Donya Fortress Trailer ==

See this for the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LipJK6nxEw&feature=g-u-u

Weapons seen (Confirmed):
*MTAR-21
*SPAS-12 (fired in pump action)
*AUGA3
*ACR (Called ACW-R)
*JNG-90
*L86 (Seen at 1:14)

Weapons seen (Unconfirmed):
*LSAT Machine Gun (Used by Engineer at 0:29 and seen in killfeed)
*Unknown compact AK variant (Seen at 1:11, carried by Engineer, looks different from AKS-74U)
*Unknown long barrelled Revolver (Also seen at 1:11, carried by a Support)

Thats all I can spot [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

M417 appears in the Killfeed. [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/File:M417.jpg Sauce.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:32, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

:I'm betting it's the semi-auto sniper for the recon kit [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:49, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
::The fact it's seen being used by a Recon kit at around 1:05 with an EoTech and a suppressor lends credence to the idea.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:54, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

:::Looks like a standard 74U to me, but that pistol doesn't really look like anything. I found the MP5K, it's at 0:50. As far as I can tell this just confirms the SPAS-12 is pump, the MP5K is the SMG, and the other sniper is the JNG-90, which I'd never heard of before. Also, they updated the "AUG" to "AUG A3" since the last trailer :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:45, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
::::Yeah, I'm pretty content with the weapons selection now that we've pretty much seen all of them. I'm kind of hoping that the SPAS-12 is both pump-action and semi-auto, though.
:::::From the press release: ''•Earn 10 new weapons and bring them back to the base game including: 1.AUG Assault Rifle, 2.SCAR Assault Rifle, 3.ACW-R Carbine, 4.MTAR-21 Carbine, 5.M417 Sniper Rifle, 6.JNG-90 Sniper Rifle, 7.L86LSW Machine Gun, 8.LSAT Machine Gun, 9.M5K Tactical Machine Pistol, 10.PAS-12 Shotgun'' [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 06:18, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

:Good, the SCAR-L is an AR and the ACR is a carbine, that's what I was hoping for, and the only thing we didn't know for sure. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:29, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== SIG SG 553 ==

Do you ever see the charging handle of the SG 553, as I'm wondering whether it is genuinely an SG 553 or a mislabelled SG 552 (charging handle is the only deffinite difference). The gun picture is actually a mislabelled SG 552. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:20, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

== MP7A1 ==

No matter how many times I look at, or just think of, the MP7 rounds ''this'' big I have hilarity induced seizures. Thanks for the unending joy, but I am suing you for giving me epilepsy. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 11:35, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

...what?
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 01:13, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

One of the screen shots for the MP7 shows the reload animation without a magazine, so the animation looks like the player is gesturing how big the bullets would be.--[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 01:26, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

:It's pretty funny, as are a lot of the other ones. Whoever does those captions, I don't know if it's everyone or one really funny person, but thank you :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:52, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

== Missing Screenshots ==

So I noticed we're still missing a in game screenshots of some of the BtK weapons. I loaded up fraps and snapped a few of the ones I have unlocked. I'm missing the QBU-88 QBZ-95B the L96 and the MK3A1, but I have a few good shots of the rest. Screwed up catching images of some of the charging animations though. Also, the charging animation on the L85 looks like it's just smacking the cheek rest. Photo album is here: [http://imgur.com/a/j38Rv] I'll let someone more senior that me decide which photos to add, it's been a while since I edited a wiki. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 09:29, 30 April 2012 (CDT)
:That is correct for an L85, there is a bolt release catch underneath the cheek rest on the left side of the gun. When you empty a magazine the bolt will lock back, so you just need to change the magazine and push the catch up to chamber the first round. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:11, 30 April 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks for that Commando, info on the L85 seems hard to find. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:56, 30 April 2012 (CDT)

== PP-19 ==

Since the patch hsa changed the PP-19to be chambered in the 9x18mm Makarov, would it be at all possible to have the screenshot of the loadout screen to represent the change? It currently shows it pre-patch where its still in the 9x19mm Parabellum. I'd do it myself but I only have it for 360 and I don't know how. Thanks. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:58, 13 May 2012 (CDT)

== How do we know the M1911 in this game is an M-45 MEU(SOC)? ==

The real life picture provided shows the pistol with U.S. Army markings. How do we know the in-game M1911 is actually an MEUSOC?

:"It is a standard M1911A1 with a three-hole trigger, a Springfield slide, commander-style hammer, beavertail grip safety, Pachmayr rubber grips, and uses 8 round magazines." That's an exact match to the 1st-gen MEUSOC pisotls. As for why it has army markings, it was probably built on a standard Army M1911A1, but I don't know for sure. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:57, 16 May 2012 (CDT)

== Close Quarters Weapons ==

So I bought Premium, and I've unlocked a few of the guns. Uploaded some screens, and I'm gonna start adding them into the page.

I have the SCAR-L, AUG-A3, ACR, HK417, SPAS-12, L86A2. I can't unlock the MP5K or the JNG-90 until the maps are unlocked on PC, but I'll add the LSAT and MTAR-21 screens when I unlock them. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 09:05, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== CQ Weapons Comments ==

I was disappointed to see the ACR in the carbine kit although it's the full length version with a fixed stock. I was hoping they'd put the SCAR-L in the carbine kit instead, as the SCAR-H already is there.
I Also liked if the HK417 was in the assault kit also as a Battle rifle. THe G3A3 is the only battle rifle in the Assault kit.
Instead of the HK417 being in recon they could have put in a modernized Saiga 308 or the Mk12 SPR.
Apart from that I rather do like the DLC and the weapons. [[User:EoghanG93|EoghanG93]] 10:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

The ACR is apparently using the 6.5 Grendel round, if the Battlelog weapon profile is anything to go by. -- Long Fallen 15:53, 8 June 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Max Payne 3

2012-05-14T05:34:13Z

Long Fallen: /* Walkthrough up early */

==The Beretta 92FS semi-automatic pistol==
I wonder if it will make an appearance in ''Max Payne 3'' as a usable gun. [[Special:Contributions/203.59.124.247|203.59.124.247]] 12:53, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

I guess it could appear in a flashbacks.But I really doubt it. [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 11:30, 6 March 2012 (CST)

==Unidentified guns==
[[Image:Mp3gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:Mp3guns2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:Mp3pistol.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:Mp3pistol2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Is either an Inox or Desert Eagle]]
:The Pistol Payne is holding in the first picture is an Desert Eagle. I don't know what that shotgun is though.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 11:14, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

== AK47 ==

I've just re-examined the six released pictures with the visual equivalent of a fine tooth pick, and can't see an AK47 anywhere. All the gangsters clearly have single-handed weapons - though I would put my last buck on there being an AK varient in-game, there is currently no visual proof at all, so I've deleted the section. If someone would point it out to me, I will be more than glad to re-do the AK47 section I've just deleted.
Take care and remember to eat all your veggies. [[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]] 02:29, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
::Appologies everyone, I just been doing some research, and there is a picture of an AK-47 in the Game Informer Magazine's section on Max Payne 3, not the actual released photos. Here is the Link: http://www.gossipgamers.com/max-payne-3-details-high-res-scans/ [[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]] 15:13, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Pictures uploaded by user ''SB2296''. Thanks very much for that my friend. :) [[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]] 21:06, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

== Taurus PT92 ==
I think the Beretta 92FS's may be Taurus PT92's.Needs confirmation.-[[User:SB2296|SB2296]]
[[Image:Mp3deagle92.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
[[Image:Mp3guns1.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
*So when did Max turn into Charlie Bronson with a big stupid beard? [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 13:00, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
:When he went to Sao Paulo to kick some Brazilian Ass and take names that's when.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 13:58, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
::12 long years of alcoholism and painkiller addiction and abuse (hah, never though I'd see this day coming. I was thinking that the first time I started playing the Max Payne demo and seeing how many painkillers he consumes), that's when. :D [[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]] 00:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
: HEY! Don't bad mouth Bronson. If he were alive to hear you, he would tear your lungs out-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 00:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
:: Wrong Bronson. I was talking about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bronson_%28prisoner%29 this one]. Stick "Charlie Bronson" (not Charles) into Google and you'll see what I mean in the image results; he is a bald man who is huge and typically has an enormous silly beard. He looks sort of like a real-life Doctor Robotnik. [[User:Vangelis2|Vangelis2]] 16:03, 6 April 2011 (CDT)

:: By the way, I think that's a MAC-11, not 10. Either that or Max's hands are HUGE. -protoAuthor
:::I think it' a Mac-11 too, because of those horizintal lines on the sides of the gun. I'm no gun expert, but I'm sure they're only on a Mac-11 - I was checking what it was just the other day on wikipedia. TC. [[User:Tec-9|Tec-9]] 00:39, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

== Unknown Revolver ==
[[Image:MP3-Revolver.jpg|thumb|none|550px]]
Does anyone know which chrome revolver is that in Max's left hand?Looks like a Taurus but the image is too small to guess the correct one.--[[User:SB2296|SB2296]] 05:19, 17 April 2011 (CDT)
:Could be a Smith & Wesson of sort, or a Colt Police Positive maybe, I would need a bigger pic. :( Wow, is that Max's new model? I guess enough people fussed about the original bald-bearded angry Mexican design. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:07, 17 April 2011 (CDT)
::This game's been in development so long that beardy Max died before he could be in it and this is his brother Ernie. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:37, 17 April 2011 (CDT)
:::Apparently, both Max's are in the game, baldy, and hairy, supposedly hairy Max is in flash backs, but hopefully, baldy Max is only played during an under cover level then you switch back to hairy max, if that's not the case, might as well rename him Bruce Willis. [[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 03:54, 21 April 2011 (CDT)
::::Actually, now that I've looked at the pics more, I don't see much wrong with his new model (both hairy Max and baldy Max) because I can still see his original face from when he was younger. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:00, 23 April 2011 (CDT)
:::::His face has changed 3 times, i.e in every game max looks different, so I dont recognize him. There are a few new screens on the official max payne 3 page, including the one above but in better resolution... might help to identify the revolver. - Scott, 23. April, happy holidays!!!

My guess is that it is a Smith and Wesson, 44 special; either a Triple lock, or a Hand Ejector III, Model of 1926. Another possiblity is that it is a more modern reproduction 44 Special, a Model 21. It could be a 38/44 Heavy Duty (38 Special), or finally a Model 22 (.45 ACP with moon clips). Those are all the Smiths that have a half moon front sight and a barrel partial underlug (shrouded ejector). Model 10's lack the ejector shroud, and there are no .357's or .44 magnums with a half moon front sight. In fact, no "magnum" capable revolvers at all have a half moon front sight. The gun is also pretty big, representing an N frame. Axel Kane, 11 May 2011.
:My guess is a Smith & Wesson Model 20. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:05, 11 May 2011 (CDT)
Well the Model 20 is essentially the same as the 38/44 Heavy Duty, but after 1957 it was assigned a Model number rather than the title "Heavy Duty". It fires a .38 caliber bullet but was built on the Hand Ejector .44 Special (N) frame, in order to accomodate the "High Velocity" .38 Special cartridge, which was the precursor to the .357 magnum (hence the term, 38/44). One reason that I don't believe the picture is a Model 21 is that the grip appears to be a square butt, whereas the grip of a Model 21 is round. Axel Kane, 11 May 2011

I studied the picture more closely with it zoomed in. You can make out the size of the bore, and it is undoubtedly a big caliber. This would tend to rule out the 38/44 or Model 20. I would have to go with either a .44 Special or a .45. There are heavy duties out there converted to .45 long colt, however. Axel Kane, 12 May 2011

It could be a .44 Special of 1950, which is a "Pre Model 21", different from the Model 21 in that it has a square butt grip. In any case, it appears to be one of the "Hand Ejector series", characterized by an N frame, "pencil" barrel, half moon front sight, "duty", or fixed, rear sight, shrouded ejector, and a magna style grip with a square butt. Axel Kane, 14 May 2011.

The revolver is now listed as a Smith and Wesson Model 10. I beg to differ. There was never a Model 10 that was produced that had a shrouded ejector. The closest to it would be to that is the "Heavy Duty" or the Model 20 (essentially the same thing).
:I agree with you. The front sight also is not the type found on a Model 10 heavy barrel.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 17:39, 11 March 2012 (CDT)

== Glock ==
I changed the G17 to G18 because on the first picture that is clearly a G18. I highly doubt that there will be a G18 '''and''' a G17, especially a G17+G18 akimbo combination. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:11, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:Wow, your right, nice catch. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 10:41, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
Is it me or does it look like the G18 has a hammer on it? [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

Interestiing. :)
I think it's some sort of texture fail,or.. hm.That's definitely looks weird. [[User:Littlesoldier1|Littlesoldier1]] 16:17, 10 March 2012 (CST)

== Unknown SMG ==

Could that maybe be a [[SIG SG 540#FAMAE SAF|FAMAE SAF]]? Or perhaps the Brazilian version, the Taurus MT-9, considering the setting? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 13:03, 14 September 2011 (CDT)
:I thought it could be a FAMAE as well, but I saw the new trailer "Going After the Girl", and now I don't think so. There are a couple of good shots of this gun in the trailer, and it most closely resembles an MP5/40, although the front site looks like the type found on a FAMAE--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 16:02, 19 February 2012 (CST)

== 1911 ==

just saw the new gameplay video they released, at about 2:20 to 2:30 you see Max using a 1911 model pistol, i don't know much about guns so i can't identify the specific model, and i don't know how to do a page, so i'll just post the screencap i took, and a link to the video and leave that up to people who are more in the know.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 12:15, 17 November 2011 (CST)

screencap
[IMG]http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk125/kornflakes89/6461a05d.jpg[/IMG]

link to video
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/design-and-max-payne-3/723955

:Looks like a run-of-the-mill Colt M1911. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:36, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== unknown handgun ==
I just saw a trailer for the game and in one scene he seems to have a revolver of some sort in his holster. From what I can see of the barrel it appears to be a Colt Anaconda. I don't know how to add photos to this site so here is a link to the video. Go to 3:10 to see the gun.
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/design-and-max-payne-3/723955

== Gotta love the details ==

Just the length Rockstar goes to get the details right, moving slides, realistic shell casings, the bullets themselves, etc.

== Another unknown smg ==
[[File:MaxPayne3SMG.jpg|thumb|none|550px]]
Any ideas?--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] 14:00, 4 January 2012 (CST)

:: Something in the vein of Tec-9... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] 14:11, 4 January 2012 (CST)

:::I looked at a larger version of this screen on Shacknews, and I'm pretty sure the SMGs are Beretta M-12s/Taurus MT-12s, only it appears the foregrips have been removed. I was hoping the Beretta M12 would be in this game, but now I'm kind of annoyed after seeing the cosmetic change made to it. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine when game designers modify the appearance of a gun for no good reason. Why do they do this? Is it due to legal reasons?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 21:46, 5 January 2012 (CST)

== FX-05 Xiuhcoatl==
Are we sure it's not just a deformed G36KV? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:18, 18 February 2012 (CST)
:It's not an FX-05. Compare: [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_80_yaznP3lM/TRWr1HUuwuI/AAAAAAAABIE/W8J9yP4U7mY/s1600/g36ccomparison.jpg/ G36] vs [http://i.imgur.com/XZxAC.jpg/ FX-05]. The "distinctive dual rows of gas vents" it's not enough reason to consider it a FX-05. BTW, the FX-05 has no dual row of gas vents. It's a single row of serpent-shaped vents.
:I think you're right, considering that the name of the weapon in the game is "G6". A rather thinly disguised alteration of the G36 designation!--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 16:07, 19 February 2012 (CST)
::No, it's an FX05. Which is a G36 in disguise. The safety is the giveaway.-protoAuthor 16:08, 19 February 2012 (CST)
:Upon further looking... Eh... Maybe...-protoAuthor 16:17, 19 February 2012 (CST)
::I'd say deformed G36, personally. Also, the FX05 is not a G36 in disguise, no matter what HK's legal team would have people believe. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:38, 19 February 2012 (CST)
:I guess I should say a G36 Cosplayer or something, since the internals are different.-protoAuthor 19:12, 19 February 2012 (CST)

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 25 February 2012, 13:40, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"Maybe it's a hybrid between an H&K G36 of the Bundeswehr (Long Barrel) and a FX-05 Xiuhcoatl (dual row Air Intakes), with the Carrying Handle from an H&K SL8; the real matter is about the Assault Scope, which looks to be from the SL8 or fully Fictional...
Very reliable Weapons, both G36 and FX-05, but I would have chosen the newer Taurus ART-556 Carbine."

== Taurus Revolver ==
I changed the designation of the Taurus revolver from "Raging Bull" to the Model 608. After watching this [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxziisVZ4w8 Weapons Trailer] on YouTube it's obvious it's intended to be a Model 608.

Make sure to check out the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHpOk2X2Kqc Going After the Girl Trailer] as well. There are good shots of the unidentified submachine gun, which IMO mostly looks like a MP5/40, and there's a shot of gangsters holding the unknown revolver that caused so much debate as to its identity. I also noticed that in a couple of shots the Mini-Uzi has it's stock, while most of the time it's shown without it. So are the developers going to leave the stock on or off? I'd rather it's left on as I think it looks better that way--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 16:48, 19 February 2012 (CST)

== Mini 30 ==

Got a [http://www.rockstargames.com/maxpayne3/weapons/mini30 new weapon] announced.[[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:56, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

== Desert Eagle ==

I don't think the handgun Max is holding in the "MAC-11" page is a PT92. I'm pretty sure it is the Desert Eagle.

[[Image:Mp3guns1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Max with a MAC-11 and a PT92 AFS.]]

- [[User:1morey]] March 6, 2012 4:21 PM (EST)
:It used to be a picture of a MAC-11 and a PT-92, but warejaws uploaded a new version of it, turning it in to one of a Desert Eagle and Mini-Uzi.-protoAuthor 16:25, 6 March 2012 (CST)

== MPK ==

The submachine gun video on the site showed all the SMGs in the game. Is the MPK an MP5/40 or MP5/10?[[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:56, 23 March 2012 (CDT)
:There is no way to know which model the MPK is supposed to represent since Rockstar doesn't list the caliber of the weapon. Here is the link to the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lld-njdeDLE Max Payne 3 SMG] trailer for those who haven't seen it. Nice to see the SAF is in the game, I was hoping it would be included. I hate the altered design of the Beretta Model 12 , I think it looks like crap. I do have a theory why the front grip was removed-- it's to allow the weapon to fit inside Max's shoulder holster. It's kind of a dumb idea, IMO. I think instead of making cosmetic changes to the guns, some kind of shoulder rig could have been used that allows the weapons to hang down by sling, but that probably would have been more difficult to render--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 20:39, 23 March 2012 (CDT)
:I don't think HK ever made 10mm or .40 versions in K form. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:20, 24 March 2012 (CDT)
::Even though it's called "MPK" in the game it doesn't look like the MP5K, the weapon is modeled on the MP5/10 or MP5/40 as it has a straight magazine. Watch the SMG video and you will see what I mean.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 23:30, 24 March 2012 (CDT)
:::Well, there were straight magazines made for the 9mm MP5 too, so it could just be that.--[[User:Wildcards|Wildcards]] 13:38, 6 April 2012 (CDT)
::::Except the magazines in the game are not the old "waffle" type, they look like the straight type used on the MP5/10 or the MP5/40, which is why I assume the MPK is based on one of those weapons. The 9mm straight magazines would be a strange choice since they are hardly used anymore, but since this is a video game we are talking about here, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the weapons possess questionable design elements.--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 21:29, 6 April 2012 (CDT)
According to the new walkthrough video (posted below), the MPK has a 20-round magazine. Are the .40 and 10mm versions in 20 or 30 round capacities as standard? [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 20:55, 13 May 2012 (CDT)
:The .40 & 10 mm magazines have a standard capacity of 30 rounds. The magazine in the game has the ''appearance'' of a 30 rounder. So this means the game designers screwed with the magazine capacity to make the weapon differ from the other SMGs, but never accurately rendered the mag to reflect this. Is there any indication what caliber round the "MPK" is chambered for in the game?--[[User:Phillb36|Phillb36]] 21:46, 13 May 2012 (CDT)

== Shotgun video ==

A new [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BM-u_I5OsU Shotgun Video] is on Youtube. Any guesses as to what the Super Sport is based on? Perhaps the Remington 1187?
* That would be my guess. Other new guns are the SPAS-15, sawed-off shotguns (of course), and some kind of tactical Mossberg 500.

== Walkthrough up early ==

As usual, Game Anyone "reviewers" have gotten their hands on some early copies and are posting the entire game.

http://www.gameanyone.com/video/461141

Feel free to start checking our information with the real thing. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 19:14, 13 May 2012 (CDT)

Got blocked by Rockstar as I finished watching part 3, they caught it quite easily :S -- Long Fallen 00:34, 14 May 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-04-16T07:02:15Z

Long Fallen: /* RPK Mag */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Just about everything in the military has a designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:10, 10 March 2012 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

More funny stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxsbTjPe2fs&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

More ordinary stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUpUFwV8fM8&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::An LRSR mission with the Barrett like the one in CoD4 would have been awesome to have in BF3. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)
:Holy crap, I thought that was a real Marine in that pic at first! :O [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

When was the screenshot that says "HK53" taken? Shouldn't that be updated with a more recent one that says "G53"? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:46, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah, we never got that patch that the other two platforms did. I'm assuming it'll be rolled into the patch that was originally supposed to come out for all platforms this month, but is now going to be in March at the earliest. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:57, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Nope, here on the PS3 it's still the same, three-mode HK416 and two-mode AN94. DICE has gone on to say that across all consoles the stats are very different; however, the next patch will put all weapons on equal ground across all platforms. -- Long Fallen 02:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags ==
I'm going to add this to the page soon, to replace the Dog Tag Weapons sections I made before, but right now I need sleep. They're sorted by the name of the real weapon in game, not in game name and not name of weapon in the picture, if those are different. If any of you can figure out what the not-actually-a-QBB-95 is, let me know :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 1 March 2012 (CST)

[[Image:BF3_500KillGuns.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

:You have no idea how grateful I am to see this in a neat compilation! Been looking everywhere for just these designs to no avail. -- Long Fallen 02:46, 2 March 2012 (CST)
I think the QBB-95 is a totally made up frankengun. However the core of it is actually an Enfield L85, you can tell by the vent holes on the receiver: 3 horizontal vents at the rear, then a slightly larger gap followed by two slightly smaller vents. Also visible is the raised portion on the bottom edge of the upper receiver which runs horizontally under these vent holes, and the pistol grip and trigger guard seem to match. On top it seems to be a grossly oversized M4/M16A4 detachable carry handle, and the front is anyone's guess. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:56, 2 March 2012 (CST)
::Yeah, I think you're right. It also has the generic bipod most guns in BF3 use, Harris Bipod I think it's called. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== Flash Suppresor ==
I know this is really not important and probably no one cares, but I think the flash suppresor may be a Vltor VC-1. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:15, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:You found it! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:28, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::Not important? Any info is very welcome on this site! In fact, I was wondering this myself. -- Long Fallen 02:48, 2 March 2012 (CST)

::Yeah, most definitely. We welcome clarification on any component or add-on used in the game. IMFDB's priorities are much different than those of game-based wikis. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:31, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Do you guys think we should have a section for the attachments in the game, since there are so many? For most games it wouldn't be necessary, but here there are 12 different optics, the aftermarket irons, KAC foregrip, Harris bipod, six (I think) suppressors, PEQ-2, pistol laser sight, and a tac light. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:53, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:Yes, please include the info on which flash suppressors and other accessories are being used on which guns in the screenshots (as well as an addendum at the end of the page outlining just which real-life firearm accessories are in the game). There are many of us not in the know who would like to learn about them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:32, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

That Javelin dogtag looks so cool. I can't wait to get to 500 kills with it. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:16, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== 3 Expansions planned for BF3 ==

[http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/07/battlefield-3-close-quarters-announced.aspx 3 Expansions planned for BF3]

Newest expansion has 10 new guns, what are you guys thinking/hoping they will be? I'm hoping for a USP, perhaps another pump action shotgun,maybe a TAR or a Galil, and an XM8 (wishful thinking on that last one, but they put the Jackhammer in, so why not?) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 18:20, 7 March 2012 (CST)

EDIT: Can someone fix that link please? I'm not very good at this clearly.

Me being the AR fanboy that I am, I just want a short barreled AR (10 inches prefferably). cheech98 9:28, 7 March 2012

:HK416. I'd like to see another pump shotty and some pistols at the least. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:49, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Already spoken for; the M416 is the 10" 416.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:16, 8 March 2012 (CST)

Definitely a pump shotgun, maybe an Ithica or a Mossberg with wood furniture (because with black furniture it would look too much like the 870). I would like to see an AK in 7.62x39. I was honestly appalled that BF3 didn't feature a .30 cal AK. An MP5, a Hi-Power, a CZ-75 and a SIG-Sauer would also be nice; a non-tacticool FAL, maybe an FNC (always loved that gun), a Skorpion (come on, who doesn't wanna shoot that thing in a video game), the VZ-58, the HK P7 perhaps? The HK33 would be an awesome weapon to see (although admittedly not too plausible), an Uzi (full size or mini, doesn't really matter to me), a Makarov (still common among the Russian Armed Forces, right?), the P99, and MORE REVOLVERS, DAMMIT. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 02:04, 8 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I think if they added the FAL, it wouldn't be tacticool, seeing as how the G3A3 wasn't. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:32, 11 March 2012 (PST)

:Rumours are circulating that two such weapons in Close Quarters Pack are the CZ-75 Automatic is one such pistol as a competition towards the G18 and 93R and a new sniper rifle, the CZ-750 for the Recon. Also two new vehicles rumored are the UH-60 Blackhawk and M2A2 Bradley IFV. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:07, 9 March 2012 (CST)

::But isn't the CQ Pack gonna take place entirely indoors? I'm pretty sure it said somewhere that the four maps in the next pack are going to feture entirely infantry-based, indoors combat. I guess I could see a helicopter working in there somewhere (thinking of the Airport map's chopper-gunners on MW2, I suppose) but it seems like vehicles would break the tense, room-to-room air they're going for here. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 3:56, 13 March 2012 (EST)

The HK33 is actually in the game already, in the Back to Karkand expansion pack as the 'G53' or something like that. *EDIT* Nevermind, you meant the full size rifle, my mistake...
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 12:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

It's gonna be a bunch of CQB guns, no doubt. I'd like to see (Assault Rifles) Tavor TAR-21 and the Masada. (Carbines) AKMs and the AUG A3. (Machine Guns) LSAT and the IMI Negev (Snipers) VSS Vintorez and the DSR-1 (Submachine Guns)MP5 PDW and the Colt R0991 9mm. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 16:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year, I think we are going to have our hands full identifying all them because it ain't just firearms either, they're adding a slew of vehicles with each pack as is the norm with this supposed DLC's. "Close quarters" I think is mostly gonna be all transport vehicles so I suspect, possibly Technicals, Civilian Vehicles, maybe an aerial transport helicopter/plane or light attack scout helicopters, possibly light IFV's too. Weapons are likely to be CQB in nature, I'm hoping for alot of Sub-Machine Gun's and Shotguns, the game needs more Pump Shotguns in my opinion. My general wish-list includes:

* SA58 OSW Battle Rifle and Type 95 Assault Rifle (to round out the Chinese Firepower in BF3, almost the full collection now) for the Assault Kit
* Zastava M92 (Compact AK47 Variant) and the Mark 18 Mod 0 (Ultra compact AR) and possibly the QLZ-87 Automatic Grenade Launcher (as an Anti-Vehicle Weapon, replaces the Rocket Launcher) for the Engineer
* MG3 GPMG and L86A2 (Equivalent to BF3's RPK and M27, gotta have more weapons like those for the Support Kit)
* Mark 12 SPR (American equivalent of the SKS in BF3) and CZ-750 for the Recon
* CZ-75 Auto, H&K MP5, Mossberg 590 Pump Shotgun (if it was a secondary for the Assault I'd be in love with it), TOZ-194, Valtro PM-5, Sawn Off Double Barrel, Benelli M3 Super 90, Smith & Wesson 686, SIG P226, H&K USP, QSZ-92 and FN Five SeveN are just some examples of all kit weapons I'd love to see.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:56, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:If they added the QLZ-87, it would be '''''WAY''''' overpowered. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:28, 12 March 2012 (PST)

:Dunno about the QLZ-87, man. I'd think most Battlefield players are already sick of overpowered, hand-held weapons that can auto-fire frags. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 4:03, 13 March 2012 (EST)

"There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year" 
Thirty weapons in each pack? Are you kidding me? BtK had eight weapons. And how do you know all the packs will have weapons in?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:37, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:Actually, BtK had ten weapons, and he meant at least 30 overall, he just stated it wrong. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 3:28, 9 March 2012 (PST)

They just released a new trailer that shows off some of the weapons in the first expansion pack, I only saw two but there may be more hidden throughout, the ones I saw were the L86A1 and the ACR(I assume it was the ACR, it was however called "ACW-R", I'm seeing a trend with Magpul weapons here with the PDR being renamed the PDW-R. (PS. sorry if I screwed up the formatting, this is my first entry.)
After further searching the complete list seems to be AUG, SPAS-12, ACW-R(ACR), L86A1 LSW, LSAT, MTAR-21, SCAR-L. However some people claim to have spotted the CZ-75 Auto. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 12:38, 13 March 2012 (CET)

:Good catch Spry, I watched the trailer twice carefully and found the same. I'll make it a list so it's easier to see. As with Karkand we should avoid adding anything new to the main page until we have more to add. I'm assuming the same weapon layout as Karkand until I hear something solid about that full auto CZ-75, maybe it has a stock and is a PDW? I'm also assuming what go to what classes, can't really go wrong there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:47, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

*Assault: SCAR-L (misspelled as SCARL-L; I tweeted Demize)
*Assault: AUG (variant unknown)
*Engineer: ACR (as ACW-R, like PDW-R)
*Engineer: MTAR-21
*Support: L86A1
*Support: LSAT
*Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)
*Recon: ???
*All Kit: "M5K" (don't know what it is, described as M5K tactical machine pistol)
*All Kit: SPAS-12

LIST EDITED

::I'm excited to see the AUG and the MTAR, but the ACR and SCAR-L... while I have nothing against them (in fact, I really like them) aren't they a bit... implausible? As for the LSAT... HELL. NO. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:15, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Not sure if this is on the up and up, but people are talking about the Recon weapons being the HK417 and the CZ-750 (these are were supposedly found buried in some code in a leaked beta build), and with both of these weapons having an effective range of about a thousand meters, this seems plausible. However others are claiming there will be no Recon weapons in this expansion, which seems like it would a stupid move on DICE's part. In addition people are saying the ACR will be a carbine with a 25+1 capacity, and that the SCAR-L will be the assault rifle weapon (seems odd to have a the 7.62 variant as a carbine and the 5.56 variant as an assault rifle, but oh well). Others say the second All Kit weapon will be something called an M5K? I'm not sure what that is. Again none of this was shown in the trailer, however some people claim to have seen the CZ-750 in the trailer, but it's such a poor view that it could just as well be the SV-98. Also, BF3 fans work fast, someone made these mock ups of the stats screens for the guns: http://imgur.com/a/iOlAQ [[User:Spry|Spry]] 03:08, 14 March 2012 (CET)

::::After thinking about it a bit, I'm starting to think the M5K is meant to be the MP5K, when you consider that they've renamed a couple of H&K weapons like the HK53 and the HK416, it's plausible that they had some licensing issues with H&K like they seem to have had with Magpul and Glock (No surprise there, considering how notoriously protective Glock is of their brand), So they probably just renamed it the M5K. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 10:29, 14 March 2012 (CET)
:::::Either that, or they misspelled it, like they did the SCAR-L. And if the MP5 doesn't have H&K's name in its name, they probably wouldn't have to rename it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:18, 14 March 2012 (PST)
::::::You also have to take into account that some of the weapons used by said classes in the trailer could just be kits they picked up in the middle of the battle, perhaps to throw off the assertion of which one belongs to who. I'm just glad the L86A1 is in there, finally another British weapon added, just add a Browning Hi-Power or a SIG P226 and I'm set! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:38, 14 March 2012 (CDT)Draco122

An M203A2 would be a nice addition, since the Marines don't use the M320. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:12, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

I thought this belonged here, since we're on the subject of expansions, here's a HUGE list of updates in this upcoming patch.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/#!/bf3/news/view/2832654779195992365/ [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 01:56, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

"Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)" TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:59, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

Does anyone know of any new info on the weapons in the expansion? I still have no idea of what the 2nd recon weapon is (Is recon even getting 2 weapons?). Now I'm hearing the TAR is going to be all-kit? I'm clearly confused. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== L96 Irons?! ==

What in the holy hell is that garbage?! finally a rifle with good iron sights and the stick a SECOND front sight on the end of the receiver rail... for a whopping 7" sight radius... dear god what a disappointment. [[User:Furious Oyster|Furious Oyster]]
:As a side note, that isn't an L96 front sight, looks more like the one that is on the G22 (German variant of the AWM). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:39, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
::Hahaha, that was my reaction too. The sights will be fixed in that big patch that should be out this month. It was on that huge notes list. EDIT: I think the BF3 rifle IS the G22; folding stock & front sight. [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/G22_ohne_Schalldaempfer.jpg here][[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:55, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:AI AW G22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|G22 - .300 Winchester Magnum]]

: question on the L96, what is it chambered in? It should be .300 Winchester Magnum (I think?) but the ingame description says 7.62mmx51mm NATO... [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 00:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
::The standard Arctic Warfare is chambered in either .243 Winchester or 7.62x51mm NATO. However, the in game gun is modelled on a magnum rifle (can tell by the size of the magazine) which is chambered in .300 Winchester of .338 Lapua. The caliber is correct for the name of the gun, but wrong for the model it actually is. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:00, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
:Keep in mind most of the calibres are wrong for the Back To Karkand guns, like the QBs being 5.45mm [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:40, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Shortcuts ==

I was on the 360 Marketplace this week, looking for new Add-ons for any of my games when I came across several for Battlefield 3. They are class specific and cost 560 Microsoft points apiece or you can get the ultimate bundle which includes Air, Ground and Co-Op 'shortcuts' for a whopping 3200 points. What a shortcut entails is basically a free pass to getting ALL of the specific kits weapons, attachments and gadgets thereby bypassing the experience system if someone has the credits.

In short, this is a noob's wetdream. Personally, I think they should rename the Ultimate Shortcut Bundle to the Ultimate Lazy Bastards Bundle. Thankfully all of the shortcuts have been getting pretty low reviews. Thoughts? --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 16:28, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

:Wait, it includes weapon attachments? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:24, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Every other game is dumbed down for casual gamers to blow through in an hour. Why is this any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:51, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Shortcuts are gay. 'nuff said. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 17:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm not too happy about shortcuts either, but did you really have to use gay as a way to insult it? [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42
:Sorry, I forgot gay means "happy" --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:27, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

== SPAS-12 = Pump-Action? ==

I was watching the part of the Close-Quarters Expansion Pack trailer where it showed the SPAS-12, and it looked like it was operating in pump-action mode. Is anyone else disappointed by this? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

I'm actually quite glad, I was quite disappointed with the lack of pump-action shotguns in game. I guess they could say it's an SAS-12 so it's a pump-action only variant in real life. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42

I don't really care, I want more pump actions, but another tube fed semi action shotty too. --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:40, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

:Same here, it's not technically wrong, and since we need at least one more pump shotgun, I'm fine with it. I also think they went with the SPAS-12 because most pump shotguns like 870s, Mossbergs, Ithicas, etc, looks very similar. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:20, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

::True, but they could have done the Tactical version of the Benelli Nova or SuperNova. They look unique enough. Or they could have done the Kel-Tec KSG, except without continuous fire of its two magazines (I'm looking at you, MW3).

What's wrong with a pump shotgun with 12 shots (*EDITED* the Kel-tec KSG)? The street sweeper (DAO-12) has 12 shots AND is semi-auto, then there's the USAS-12 with 10+1 and FULL-auto, a pump action with 12 or 12+1 capicity wounldn't be much of a big deal. - Wantabe_Warrior38

:You think the SPAS-12 has 12 shots? It only has an 8-round magazine. *EDITED* No, when I said "continuous fire", I meant you need to switch to the second magazine when the first runs out, not continually firing as if it automatically switched (again, lookin' at you MW3). [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

::Pretty sure he meant the KSG. And yeah, the SuperNova looks pretty sweet, I like the trigger guard :) EDIT: Are there any pump-action mag-fed shotguns? I can't think of any, but that'd be pretty cool, like the M1014 and Saiga-12K. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:30, 9 April 2012 (CDT)
:::There are conversion kits to convert popular pump guns to magazine fed, but they look odd with the magazine being further forward than normal, under the existing magazine tube. There are pump actions that are made with box magazines like the [[Valtro PM5 Shotgun]] series, or the [[Hawk shotgun series]]. There is also the [[Franchi SPAS-15]] which is semi/pump like the SPAS-12. I have also seen Saigas that have been converted to pump action. These are just off the top of my head, there are probably other, more obscure weapons out there. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:47, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

== KH2002 Magazine ==

Is it using the 20 round stanag magazine? Looks like it. If it is, ill mention it on the kh2002 portion of the page

== RPK Mag ==
So, it seems someone screwed up during the development of the patch and now the RPK has an extended mag option that gives it 199+1 rounds :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 11 April 2012 (CDT)
:I think it was a DICE only attachment pre-patch --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 20:02, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

:Doubtful, the MG36 and the QBB are mysteriously missing their "extended mag" attachments, leading to the unfortunate scene of a perpetually capped off Beta C-Mag. :S -- Long Fallen 02:02, 16 April 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Far Cry 3

2012-03-21T23:42:19Z

Long Fallen: /* New gameplay, New guns */

Yaay, Frank and his amazing collection of exploding rust will ride again. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:From what I saw in the demo at E3 (I watched Microsoft's press conference live yesterday), it looks like this game will be set on an island like the earlier games in the series. Frankly I'm surprised no one had beat me to the punch and made a page for the game already. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:59, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I'd heard of it being in development, but I wasn't aware there was any actual footage of weapons in it yet. I guess I'll have to start saving for another PC and set aside 40 or so hours to screencap it like last time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:05, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Here's an "insane" walkthrough video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXHmWRziHA [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:26, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Waaaaaaiiiit a minute...I see a crashed Zero, ancient ruins, and they're talking about this island's "dark secret." Looks like this is going to be an ''actual'' sequel to ''Far Cry''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:39, 8 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Loved the first game, so I hope it will awesome. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK ==

The AK has a muzzlebrake, but the mag looks like a 7.62mm mag instead of the straighter 5.45mm mag. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:32, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:If you watch the video, you'll notice that all the features of the weapon except the magazine match the AK-74 (handguard & stock, receiver cover, muzzle brake, front sight assembly), with the magazine being the only part that doesn't match. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

Dang DinoHunter2! You did '''EXACTLY''' what I was going to do, I was considering changing it to a AK-103 like half a hour ago and the description change is the same as I was thinking, good job! :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:23, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:You're welcome Mr. Wolf :D - [[User:DinoHunter2|DinoHunter2]] 18:18, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol ==

It's a modern 1911 with a under-barrel rail. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:21, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:Never mind, I was too slow. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

YEY! Finally a Kimber in a game! I'm looking forward to this game regardless now :D --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:47, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

[[User:Scarlighter|Scarlighter]]
Scarlight/Scarlighter/Scar-Lighter/Scar-L/... says on 21 February 2012, 19:10, Italy (UTC+01:00):

"The Kimber Warrior: My Favourite 1911 Replica!"
[[File:FC3KIMBLER2.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A Kimber Warrior in ''Far Cry 3'']]

== SVD? ==

An alternate demo walkthrough features what looks to be an SVD or one of its derivatives. Anyone care to give this video a look? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_9fsXPNs34

On a side note, the same video confirms the M67 in game. The throwing animation is actually kinda cool, as you see the spoon being released before the grenade is thrown.

*Looks like an actual Dragunov, it's got that bend in the safety lever that the Romak doesn't have, and it looks like they've given it the right handguard and no X stamping on the magazine this time. Of course it's a lefty Dragonuv, but I think that's to be expected. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:20, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
::Maybe it's the Far Cry 2 model with a new texture, that might explain why it's a lefty gun, hope that changes in the final game, the other guns are righty guns. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:51, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, in both that video and the one I posted above, the Blackhawk helicopter the player hijacks is shot down by what appears to be some kind of rocket launcher. You can't see the guy firing it clearly, and I only saw a split-second glimpse of the rocket milliseconds before it strikes the aircraft, but I think it's possibly an [[RPG-7]] or Type 69. I don't want to add it to the page until more concrete proof is found though. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:32, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Here is a image of the rocket launcher:
[[File:FC3RL.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] 14:38, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
:Definitely a RPG-7/Type 69, most likely a RPG-7. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:42, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== Will brass fly left still? ==

I'm wondering if these guns will be like the previous game and have the brass eject left [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:49, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

*Well, so far the AK and Kimber look like they're right-handed and only the SVD looks like it's a lefty model. Now, interestingly, I'd heard that the developers had seen our ''Far Cry 2'' page (some podcast or other had a guy saying some guy on the team, I think the director, had pointed him to it) and it's actually looking like they took note: for example, they've fixed the handguard of the SVD, the magazine, the scope now fills the screen to avoid that issue where the area outside the scope was zoomed in too, the reticle now has the numbers on it (though it's missing the lower line of the rangefinder and the 1.7, and has one too many chevrons), and he holds it at the hip like the stock's under his arm rather than inserted partway into his shoulder. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

== Recent news ==

I've heard from the UK Official PS3 Magazine that the game world is supposedly going to be ten times the size of the world in ''Far Cry 2''. To be honest, this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence; one of the biggest problems with ''FC2'' was the size of the world seemed to have been decided in some board meeting before they had a single idea down as to what they were going to put in all that space. The result was a game that had you going five miles from A to B simply because they wanted you to see all the effort they'd put into the huge map. It can be done (see ''Just Cause 2'') but it makes me nervous hearing they're on "look at how big our map is" rather than "we have so many great ideas the map has to be at least this big." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:08, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Ten times the size? I lost intrest in Far Cry 2 because the game is not an FPS, is a driving game with peolpe trying to kill you at the checkpoints! OK, I'm exagerating but it's way to big.--[[User:MAndolin|MAndolin]] 08:35, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

But on the flip side, bigger maps can mean more space for more content. It's not the size of the maps that is the problem, it's what they use the size for. Far Cry 2, spatially, I thought was lovely. The driving and auto-attack enemies got old, but there's nothing about the space that seemed to be a problem. There was always somewhere to go and something to do. If they made travel more risky/interesting, and enemies didn't auto-attack you at every turn... it would make it more interesting. Furthermore, other methods of travel... such as helicopters, planes, etc. would do a world of good. Also, they need to focus on the end game more... after you've finished up the quests, that's it. There needs to be more repeatable content. Houses need to be more dynamic and upgradeable, hopefully with actual windows... not just instances you enter. That, and they need to expand more on the "hunt" and stealth aspect. It was awesome in Far Cry 2 just picking apart groups of enemies, but sucked because they -automatically- knew where you were 90% of the time... negating all stealth. It seems this has been vastly improved in the little footage we've seen, and the inventory system seems to be expanded as well. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:22, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:Naw, the problem as I see it was in FC2 before they did ''anything'' they had that 50 square km number set in stone. This led to the problem of just having normal-sized quests with waypoints that were ridiculously far apart from one another; the result was basically a 10 hour game which had another 20 hours of driving and random fights thrown on top. Not that there was anything wrong with the combat mechanics, but one key point of an open-world game is you should be able to choose how you address a situation; always having the enemies set to max aggression / kill you got wearying. A good example of a different approach would be the checkpoint halfway through Cordon in ''Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl''; there, you could shoot everyone. Or you could sneak down an anomaly-filled corridor nearby and bypass it. Or risk radiation and wild animals to use a gap in the fence way down the railway track in the other direction. Or you could put your gun away and bribe the officer to let you pass. There were consequences to all of these; for example, if you killed them all you'd then have to repel a large group of Bandits by yourself rather than the guys at the checkpoint attacking them when they got close.

:Like I said, the trouble in FC2 was that number was how big they wanted it to be, not "it can't possibly be smaller than this, because we have so many ideas to fill it up with." That plus the landscape felt annoyingly static and "dead" with no dangerous animals and no people outside fixed camps. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:33, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::I totally agree, I was also annoyed by that. I mean it would have been cool if you were stalking at night and you attacked by a pack of hyenas or that there was actually some '''people''' instead of just psychotic brigands. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:10, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:I read somewhere that the player's name is Jason Brody, if anyone wants to use that information --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:05, 23 December 2011 (CST)

The source of these problems is the fact that FC2 and FC3 is are console-centric games. And consoles are running on, by PC gaming standards, hopelessly outdated hardware (circa 2005). The relative lack of RAM and processing power means that open-world games like these are seriously held back; changes to the world are rarely permanent, and it's very difficult for the console to remember what you've done (such as items stored) in locations that aren't fixed. Sometimes it's just a matter of scope and dedication. [[Boiling Point: Road to Hell]] was only on a 25 x 25 km map, but featured drivable vehicles of all kinds (in which you could store almost any amount of items) such as boats, patrol ships, single-engine planes, and leisure/combat helicopters, factions that fought one another and treated you accordingly with respect to your reputation, upgradeable weapons that decayed at a realistic rate (you could fire 1000s of rounds and end up with a 10% chance of jamming), an RPG system that increased your skills with weaponry the more you used them and your body stats the more you ran or carried heavy stuff, and jungles filled with animals out for your blood or whom you could hunt to sell their corpses or parts to traders. By contrast, the STALKER series only got a functioning faction wars system starting with the second game, never had drivable vehicles, and had no upgrades or repairs for its weapons until the second game. The STALKER series did, however, have an A-Life system that tracked the presence and deaths of mutants and NPCs behind your back, even if you weren't in the area (something that has rarely appeared in other games, the only other example I know of being the X Universe series of space free-roam games, PC only). It's sad, really--there are more fans of console games than ever, but many don't realise just how gimped their games are compared to what could be accomplished on PCs running current hardware, much like how Crysis 2 was badly scaled back from the original. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I dunno, it strikes me more that FC2's problem was in how they approached map design and the lack of things to do. Just Cause 2 is also designed with consoles in mind, but it's more fun because it has a better interaction of game mechanics and more memorable characters. In FC2 if you took all of one faction leader's dialog and gave it to the other you'd find it hard to tell it was wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== New Trailer Out Today ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYPnDDr7sMk Here.] - What are your thoughts, guys? Obligatory dubstep for some reason, as a cinematic trailer it looks pretty awesome. -- Long Fallen 16:24, 15 February 2012 (CST)

This does look pretty good, but doesn't Vaas or whatever the bad guy's called use a standard M1911A1? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 05:50, 16 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah it appears so. Its definetly not the Kimber Warrior because it doesnt have the white grips, and appears to have a black or possibly blued finish -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 13:08, 20 February 2012 (CST)

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Oa8Q7RV78&feature=player_embedded Leaked trailer, showing actual gameplay!] -- Long Fallen 17:12, 20 February 2012 (CST)

== Most anticipated thing about FC3... ==

Most definitely the page Evil Tim is going to do for it. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 17:45, 15 February 2012 (CST)

== New gameplay, New guns ==

If you look at this gameplay footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxTXv4SbEZ4&feature=related

You can see a couple new guns (A shotgun and what I think is a DShK machine gun), plus a grenade (Which looks like an M26) - [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 18:27, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun looks like it could be either a Mossberg 500 Mariner or a Remington 870 Marine Magnum, with a ribbed barrel and a accessory rail mounted ontop of the reciever. You get a good look at the ejection port at 4:37 of the video. What is interesting is, the sling is wrapped around the reciever despite it having full stock as the ingame icon shows.

Also in the video, if you pause really quickly at 0:07, the AK looks different. The wooden furniture looks more pale than in the E3 trailer, also the magazine is different in that there were vertical lines going up and down on the magazine in the E3 trailer but now the lines are going horizontal; a good shot of this is at 0:19 when the player reloads, look between the player's hand and the reciever of the gun and you'll see.

As for the DShK, I'm not sure but it looks like it to me. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 22:02, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun appears to be a Remington 870, the handguard is wrong for a Mossberg and the ejection port matches the Remington as well. As for the heavy machine gun, I'm going to say DShK as well. Saw a lot more of the customized AK-103 as well, as well as HE-Frag hand grenades, either M67's or M26's. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:25, 21 February 2012 (CST)

New trailer. Somewhat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGrWuw5CEgM&feature=plcp&context=C41236b0VDvjVQa1PpcFNiqixtTbtxFd1-Gkazt_wHZG5RBOCYPLk%3D

You can see a Vz.61 Skorpion at 1:36 and a blink-and-you-miss-it shot of some unknown gun at 1:47. A TDI Vector maybe? -- Long Fallen 18:42, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-03-02T08:48:57Z

Long Fallen: /* Flash Suppresor */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah, we never got that patch that the other two platforms did. I'm assuming it'll be rolled into the patch that was originally supposed to come out for all platforms this month, but is now going to be in March at the earliest. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:57, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Nope, here on the PS3 it's still the same, three-mode HK416 and two-mode AN94. DICE has gone on to say that across all consoles the stats are very different; however, the next patch will put all weapons on equal ground across all platforms. -- Long Fallen 02:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags ==
I'm going to add this to the page soon, to replace the Dog Tag Weapons sections I made before, but right now I need sleep. They're sorted by the name of the real weapon in game, not in game name and not name of weapon in the picture, if those are different. If any of you can figure out what the not-actually-a-QBB-95 is, let me know :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 1 March 2012 (CST)

[[Image:BF3_500KillGuns.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

:You have no idea how grateful I am to see this in a neat compilation! Been looking everywhere for just these designs to no avail. -- Long Fallen 02:46, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== Flash Suppresor ==
I know this is really not important and probably no one cares, but I think the flash suppresor may be a Vltor VC-1. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:15, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:You found it! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:28, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::Not important? Any info is very welcome on this site! In fact, I was wondering this myself. -- Long Fallen 02:48, 2 March 2012 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-03-02T08:46:22Z

Long Fallen: /* All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah, we never got that patch that the other two platforms did. I'm assuming it'll be rolled into the patch that was originally supposed to come out for all platforms this month, but is now going to be in March at the earliest. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:57, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Nope, here on the PS3 it's still the same, three-mode HK416 and two-mode AN94. DICE has gone on to say that across all consoles the stats are very different; however, the next patch will put all weapons on equal ground across all platforms. -- Long Fallen 02:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags ==
I'm going to add this to the page soon, to replace the Dog Tag Weapons sections I made before, but right now I need sleep. They're sorted by the name of the real weapon in game, not in game name and not name of weapon in the picture, if those are different. If any of you can figure out what the not-actually-a-QBB-95 is, let me know :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 1 March 2012 (CST)

[[Image:BF3_500KillGuns.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

:You have no idea how grateful I am to see this in a neat compilation! Been looking everywhere for just these designs to no avail. -- Long Fallen 02:46, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== Flash Suppresor ==
I know this is really not important and probably no one cares, but I think the flash suppresor may be a Vltor VC-1. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:15, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:You found it! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:28, 1 March 2012 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-03-02T08:45:06Z

Long Fallen: /* Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - [[S9771773G]] 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah, we never got that patch that the other two platforms did. I'm assuming it'll be rolled into the patch that was originally supposed to come out for all platforms this month, but is now going to be in March at the earliest. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:57, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Nope, here on the PS3 it's still the same, three-mode HK416 and two-mode AN94. DICE has gone on to say that across all consoles the stats are very different; however, the next patch will put all weapons on equal ground across all platforms. -- Long Fallen 02:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags ==
I'm going to add this to the page soon, to replace the Dog Tag Weapons sections I made before, but right now I need sleep. They're sorted by the name of the real weapon in game, not in game name and not name of weapon in the picture, if those are different. If any of you can figure out what the not-actually-a-QBB-95 is, let me know :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 1 March 2012 (CST)

[[Image:BF3_500KillGuns.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

== Flash Suppresor ==
I know this is really not important and probably no one cares, but I think the flash suppresor may be a Vltor VC-1. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:15, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:You found it! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:28, 1 March 2012 (CST)

Talk:Far Cry 3

2012-02-20T23:12:18Z

Long Fallen: /* New Trailer Out Today */

Yaay, Frank and his amazing collection of exploding rust will ride again. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:From what I saw in the demo at E3 (I watched Microsoft's press conference live yesterday), it looks like this game will be set on an island like the earlier games in the series. Frankly I'm surprised no one had beat me to the punch and made a page for the game already. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:59, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I'd heard of it being in development, but I wasn't aware there was any actual footage of weapons in it yet. I guess I'll have to start saving for another PC and set aside 40 or so hours to screencap it like last time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:05, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Here's an "insane" walkthrough video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXHmWRziHA [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:26, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Waaaaaaiiiit a minute...I see a crashed Zero, ancient ruins, and they're talking about this island's "dark secret." Looks like this is going to be an ''actual'' sequel to ''Far Cry''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:39, 8 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Loved the first game, so I hope it will awesome. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK ==

The AK has a muzzlebrake, but the mag looks like a 7.62mm mag instead of the straighter 5.45mm mag. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:32, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:If you watch the video, you'll notice that all the features of the weapon except the magazine match the AK-74 (handguard & stock, receiver cover, muzzle brake, front sight assembly), with the magazine being the only part that doesn't match. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

Dang DinoHunter2! You did '''EXACTLY''' what I was going to do, I was considering changing it to a AK-103 like half a hour ago and the description change is the same as I was thinking, good job! :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:23, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:You're welcome Mr. Wolf :D - [[User:DinoHunter2|DinoHunter2]] 18:18, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol ==

It's a modern 1911 with a under-barrel rail. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:21, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:Never mind, I was too slow. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

YEY! Finally a Kimber in a game! I'm looking forward to this game regardless now :D --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:47, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== SVD? ==

An alternate demo walkthrough features what looks to be an SVD or one of its derivatives. Anyone care to give this video a look? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_9fsXPNs34

On a side note, the same video confirms the M67 in game. The throwing animation is actually kinda cool, as you see the spoon being released before the grenade is thrown.

*Looks like an actual Dragunov, it's got that bend in the safety lever that the Romak doesn't have, and it looks like they've given it the right handguard and no X stamping on the magazine this time. Of course it's a lefty Dragonuv, but I think that's to be expected. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:20, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
::Maybe it's the Far Cry 2 model with a new texture, that might explain why it's a lefty gun, hope that changes in the final game, the other guns are righty guns. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:51, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, in both that video and the one I posted above, the Blackhawk helicopter the player hijacks is shot down by what appears to be some kind of rocket launcher. You can't see the guy firing it clearly, and I only saw a split-second glimpse of the rocket milliseconds before it strikes the aircraft, but I think it's possibly an [[RPG-7]] or Type 69. I don't want to add it to the page until more concrete proof is found though. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:32, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Here is a image of the rocket launcher:
[[File:FC3RL.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] 14:38, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
:Definitely a RPG-7/Type 69, most likely a RPG-7. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:42, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== Will brass fly left still? ==

I'm wondering if these guns will be like the previous game and have the brass eject left [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:49, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

*Well, so far the AK and Kimber look like they're right-handed and only the SVD looks like it's a lefty model. Now, interestingly, I'd heard that the developers had seen our ''Far Cry 2'' page (some podcast or other had a guy saying some guy on the team, I think the director, had pointed him to it) and it's actually looking like they took note: for example, they've fixed the handguard of the SVD, the magazine, the scope now fills the screen to avoid that issue where the area outside the scope was zoomed in too, the reticle now has the numbers on it (though it's missing the lower line of the rangefinder and the 1.7, and has one too many chevrons), and he holds it at the hip like the stock's under his arm rather than inserted partway into his shoulder. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

== Recent news ==

I've heard from the UK Official PS3 Magazine that the game world is supposedly going to be ten times the size of the world in ''Far Cry 2''. To be honest, this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence; one of the biggest problems with ''FC2'' was the size of the world seemed to have been decided in some board meeting before they had a single idea down as to what they were going to put in all that space. The result was a game that had you going five miles from A to B simply because they wanted you to see all the effort they'd put into the huge map. It can be done (see ''Just Cause 2'') but it makes me nervous hearing they're on "look at how big our map is" rather than "we have so many great ideas the map has to be at least this big." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:08, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Ten times the size? I lost intrest in Far Cry 2 because the game is not an FPS, is a driving game with peolpe trying to kill you at the checkpoints! OK, I'm exagerating but it's way to big.--[[User:MAndolin|MAndolin]] 08:35, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

But on the flip side, bigger maps can mean more space for more content. It's not the size of the maps that is the problem, it's what they use the size for. Far Cry 2, spatially, I thought was lovely. The driving and auto-attack enemies got old, but there's nothing about the space that seemed to be a problem. There was always somewhere to go and something to do. If they made travel more risky/interesting, and enemies didn't auto-attack you at every turn... it would make it more interesting. Furthermore, other methods of travel... such as helicopters, planes, etc. would do a world of good. Also, they need to focus on the end game more... after you've finished up the quests, that's it. There needs to be more repeatable content. Houses need to be more dynamic and upgradeable, hopefully with actual windows... not just instances you enter. That, and they need to expand more on the "hunt" and stealth aspect. It was awesome in Far Cry 2 just picking apart groups of enemies, but sucked because they -automatically- knew where you were 90% of the time... negating all stealth. It seems this has been vastly improved in the little footage we've seen, and the inventory system seems to be expanded as well. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:22, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:Naw, the problem as I see it was in FC2 before they did ''anything'' they had that 50 square km number set in stone. This led to the problem of just having normal-sized quests with waypoints that were ridiculously far apart from one another; the result was basically a 10 hour game which had another 20 hours of driving and random fights thrown on top. Not that there was anything wrong with the combat mechanics, but one key point of an open-world game is you should be able to choose how you address a situation; always having the enemies set to max aggression / kill you got wearying. A good example of a different approach would be the checkpoint halfway through Cordon in ''Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl''; there, you could shoot everyone. Or you could sneak down an anomaly-filled corridor nearby and bypass it. Or risk radiation and wild animals to use a gap in the fence way down the railway track in the other direction. Or you could put your gun away and bribe the officer to let you pass. There were consequences to all of these; for example, if you killed them all you'd then have to repel a large group of Bandits by yourself rather than the guys at the checkpoint attacking them when they got close.

:Like I said, the trouble in FC2 was that number was how big they wanted it to be, not "it can't possibly be smaller than this, because we have so many ideas to fill it up with." That plus the landscape felt annoyingly static and "dead" with no dangerous animals and no people outside fixed camps. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:33, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::I totally agree, I was also annoyed by that. I mean it would have been cool if you were stalking at night and you attacked by a pack of hyenas or that there was actually some '''people''' instead of just psychotic brigands. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:10, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:I read somewhere that the player's name is Jason Brody, if anyone wants to use that information --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:05, 23 December 2011 (CST)

The source of these problems is the fact that FC2 and FC3 is are console-centric games. And consoles are running on, by PC gaming standards, hopelessly outdated hardware (circa 2005). The relative lack of RAM and processing power means that open-world games like these are seriously held back; changes to the world are rarely permanent, and it's very difficult for the console to remember what you've done (such as items stored) in locations that aren't fixed. Sometimes it's just a matter of scope and dedication. [[Boiling Point: Road to Hell]] was only on a 25 x 25 km map, but featured drivable vehicles of all kinds (in which you could store almost any amount of items) such as boats, patrol ships, single-engine planes, and leisure/combat helicopters, factions that fought one another and treated you accordingly with respect to your reputation, upgradeable weapons that decayed at a realistic rate (you could fire 1000s of rounds and end up with a 10% chance of jamming), an RPG system that increased your skills with weaponry the more you used them and your body stats the more you ran or carried heavy stuff, and jungles filled with animals out for your blood or whom you could hunt to sell their corpses or parts to traders. By contrast, the STALKER series only got a functioning faction wars system starting with the second game, never had drivable vehicles, and had no upgrades or repairs for its weapons until the second game. The STALKER series did, however, have an A-Life system that tracked the presence and deaths of mutants and NPCs behind your back, even if you weren't in the area (something that has rarely appeared in other games, the only other example I know of being the X Universe series of space free-roam games, PC only). It's sad, really--there are more fans of console games than ever, but many don't realise just how gimped their games are compared to what could be accomplished on PCs running current hardware, much like how Crysis 2 was badly scaled back from the original. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I dunno, it strikes me more that FC2's problem was in how they approached map design and the lack of things to do. Just Cause 2 is also designed with consoles in mind, but it's more fun because it has a better interaction of game mechanics and more memorable characters. In FC2 if you took all of one faction leader's dialog and gave it to the other you'd find it hard to tell it was wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== New Trailer Out Today ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYPnDDr7sMk Here.] - What are your thoughts, guys? Obligatory dubstep for some reason, as a cinematic trailer it looks pretty awesome. -- Long Fallen 16:24, 15 February 2012 (CST)

This does look pretty good, but doesn't Vaas or whatever the bad guy's called use a standard M1911A1? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 05:50, 16 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah it appears so. Its definetly not the Kimber Warrior because it doesnt have the white grips, and appears to have a black or possibly blued finish -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 13:08, 20 February 2012 (CST)

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Oa8Q7RV78&feature=player_embedded Leaked trailer, showing actual gameplay!] -- Long Fallen 17:12, 20 February 2012 (CST)

== Most anticipated thing about FC3... ==

Most definitely the page Evil Tim is going to do for it. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 17:45, 15 February 2012 (CST)

Talk:Far Cry 3

2012-02-15T22:24:03Z

Long Fallen: /* New Trailer Out Today */ new section

Yaay, Frank and his amazing collection of exploding rust will ride again. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:From what I saw in the demo at E3 (I watched Microsoft's press conference live yesterday), it looks like this game will be set on an island like the earlier games in the series. Frankly I'm surprised no one had beat me to the punch and made a page for the game already. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:59, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I'd heard of it being in development, but I wasn't aware there was any actual footage of weapons in it yet. I guess I'll have to start saving for another PC and set aside 40 or so hours to screencap it like last time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:05, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Here's an "insane" walkthrough video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXHmWRziHA [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:26, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Waaaaaaiiiit a minute...I see a crashed Zero, ancient ruins, and they're talking about this island's "dark secret." Looks like this is going to be an ''actual'' sequel to ''Far Cry''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:39, 8 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Loved the first game, so I hope it will awesome. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK ==

The AK has a muzzlebrake, but the mag looks like a 7.62mm mag instead of the straighter 5.45mm mag. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:32, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:If you watch the video, you'll notice that all the features of the weapon except the magazine match the AK-74 (handguard & stock, receiver cover, muzzle brake, front sight assembly), with the magazine being the only part that doesn't match. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

Dang DinoHunter2! You did '''EXACTLY''' what I was going to do, I was considering changing it to a AK-103 like half a hour ago and the description change is the same as I was thinking, good job! :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:23, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:You're welcome Mr. Wolf :D - [[User:DinoHunter2|DinoHunter2]] 18:18, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol ==

It's a modern 1911 with a under-barrel rail. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:21, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:Never mind, I was too slow. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

YEY! Finally a Kimber in a game! I'm looking forward to this game regardless now :D --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:47, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

== SVD? ==

An alternate demo walkthrough features what looks to be an SVD or one of its derivatives. Anyone care to give this video a look? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_9fsXPNs34

On a side note, the same video confirms the M67 in game. The throwing animation is actually kinda cool, as you see the spoon being released before the grenade is thrown.

*Looks like an actual Dragunov, it's got that bend in the safety lever that the Romak doesn't have, and it looks like they've given it the right handguard and no X stamping on the magazine this time. Of course it's a lefty Dragonuv, but I think that's to be expected. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:20, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
::Maybe it's the Far Cry 2 model with a new texture, that might explain why it's a lefty gun, hope that changes in the final game, the other guns are righty guns. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:51, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, in both that video and the one I posted above, the Blackhawk helicopter the player hijacks is shot down by what appears to be some kind of rocket launcher. You can't see the guy firing it clearly, and I only saw a split-second glimpse of the rocket milliseconds before it strikes the aircraft, but I think it's possibly an [[RPG-7]] or Type 69. I don't want to add it to the page until more concrete proof is found though. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:32, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Here is a image of the rocket launcher:
[[File:FC3RL.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] 14:38, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
:Definitely a RPG-7/Type 69, most likely a RPG-7. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:42, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== Will brass fly left still? ==

I'm wondering if these guns will be like the previous game and have the brass eject left [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:49, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

*Well, so far the AK and Kimber look like they're right-handed and only the SVD looks like it's a lefty model. Now, interestingly, I'd heard that the developers had seen our ''Far Cry 2'' page (some podcast or other had a guy saying some guy on the team, I think the director, had pointed him to it) and it's actually looking like they took note: for example, they've fixed the handguard of the SVD, the magazine, the scope now fills the screen to avoid that issue where the area outside the scope was zoomed in too, the reticle now has the numbers on it (though it's missing the lower line of the rangefinder and the 1.7, and has one too many chevrons), and he holds it at the hip like the stock's under his arm rather than inserted partway into his shoulder. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 12 June 2011 (CDT)

== Recent news ==

I've heard from the UK Official PS3 Magazine that the game world is supposedly going to be ten times the size of the world in ''Far Cry 2''. To be honest, this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence; one of the biggest problems with ''FC2'' was the size of the world seemed to have been decided in some board meeting before they had a single idea down as to what they were going to put in all that space. The result was a game that had you going five miles from A to B simply because they wanted you to see all the effort they'd put into the huge map. It can be done (see ''Just Cause 2'') but it makes me nervous hearing they're on "look at how big our map is" rather than "we have so many great ideas the map has to be at least this big." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:08, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Ten times the size? I lost intrest in Far Cry 2 because the game is not an FPS, is a driving game with peolpe trying to kill you at the checkpoints! OK, I'm exagerating but it's way to big.--[[User:MAndolin|MAndolin]] 08:35, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

But on the flip side, bigger maps can mean more space for more content. It's not the size of the maps that is the problem, it's what they use the size for. Far Cry 2, spatially, I thought was lovely. The driving and auto-attack enemies got old, but there's nothing about the space that seemed to be a problem. There was always somewhere to go and something to do. If they made travel more risky/interesting, and enemies didn't auto-attack you at every turn... it would make it more interesting. Furthermore, other methods of travel... such as helicopters, planes, etc. would do a world of good. Also, they need to focus on the end game more... after you've finished up the quests, that's it. There needs to be more repeatable content. Houses need to be more dynamic and upgradeable, hopefully with actual windows... not just instances you enter. That, and they need to expand more on the "hunt" and stealth aspect. It was awesome in Far Cry 2 just picking apart groups of enemies, but sucked because they -automatically- knew where you were 90% of the time... negating all stealth. It seems this has been vastly improved in the little footage we've seen, and the inventory system seems to be expanded as well. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:22, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:Naw, the problem as I see it was in FC2 before they did ''anything'' they had that 50 square km number set in stone. This led to the problem of just having normal-sized quests with waypoints that were ridiculously far apart from one another; the result was basically a 10 hour game which had another 20 hours of driving and random fights thrown on top. Not that there was anything wrong with the combat mechanics, but one key point of an open-world game is you should be able to choose how you address a situation; always having the enemies set to max aggression / kill you got wearying. A good example of a different approach would be the checkpoint halfway through Cordon in ''Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl''; there, you could shoot everyone. Or you could sneak down an anomaly-filled corridor nearby and bypass it. Or risk radiation and wild animals to use a gap in the fence way down the railway track in the other direction. Or you could put your gun away and bribe the officer to let you pass. There were consequences to all of these; for example, if you killed them all you'd then have to repel a large group of Bandits by yourself rather than the guys at the checkpoint attacking them when they got close.

:Like I said, the trouble in FC2 was that number was how big they wanted it to be, not "it can't possibly be smaller than this, because we have so many ideas to fill it up with." That plus the landscape felt annoyingly static and "dead" with no dangerous animals and no people outside fixed camps. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:33, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::I totally agree, I was also annoyed by that. I mean it would have been cool if you were stalking at night and you attacked by a pack of hyenas or that there was actually some '''people''' instead of just psychotic brigands. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:10, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:I read somewhere that the player's name is Jason Brody, if anyone wants to use that information --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:05, 23 December 2011 (CST)

The source of these problems is the fact that FC2 and FC3 is are console-centric games. And consoles are running on, by PC gaming standards, hopelessly outdated hardware (circa 2005). The relative lack of RAM and processing power means that open-world games like these are seriously held back; changes to the world are rarely permanent, and it's very difficult for the console to remember what you've done (such as items stored) in locations that aren't fixed. Sometimes it's just a matter of scope and dedication. [[Boiling Point: Road to Hell]] was only on a 25 x 25 km map, but featured drivable vehicles of all kinds (in which you could store almost any amount of items) such as boats, patrol ships, single-engine planes, and leisure/combat helicopters, factions that fought one another and treated you accordingly with respect to your reputation, upgradeable weapons that decayed at a realistic rate (you could fire 1000s of rounds and end up with a 10% chance of jamming), an RPG system that increased your skills with weaponry the more you used them and your body stats the more you ran or carried heavy stuff, and jungles filled with animals out for your blood or whom you could hunt to sell their corpses or parts to traders. By contrast, the STALKER series only got a functioning faction wars system starting with the second game, never had drivable vehicles, and had no upgrades or repairs for its weapons until the second game. The STALKER series did, however, have an A-Life system that tracked the presence and deaths of mutants and NPCs behind your back, even if you weren't in the area (something that has rarely appeared in other games, the only other example I know of being the X Universe series of space free-roam games, PC only). It's sad, really--there are more fans of console games than ever, but many don't realise just how gimped their games are compared to what could be accomplished on PCs running current hardware, much like how Crysis 2 was badly scaled back from the original. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I dunno, it strikes me more that FC2's problem was in how they approached map design and the lack of things to do. Just Cause 2 is also designed with consoles in mind, but it's more fun because it has a better interaction of game mechanics and more memorable characters. In FC2 if you took all of one faction leader's dialog and gave it to the other you'd find it hard to tell it was wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== New Trailer Out Today ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYPnDDr7sMk Here.] - What are your thoughts, guys? Obligatory dubstep for some reason, as a cinematic trailer it looks pretty awesome. -- Long Fallen 16:24, 15 February 2012 (CST)

Talk:Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater

2012-01-14T01:05:08Z

Long Fallen: /* Ocelot's 9x18 Makarov Cartridge */

== This Game is the best game. ==

Ok, it's not the best game but it's one of the best games of all time. It's basically an awesome Bond Movie. It has a awesome pre-title sequence (The Virtous Mission), a great title sequence with an awesome song (You know the one i'm talking about), a bond girl (EVA), fights with various henchmen (Cobras, Ocelot), Q (Sigint) and a incredibly ridiculous stereotypical evil enemy (Volgin and his cronies). It's the best game on the PS2. It also got great voice acting and extremely awesome and ridiculous stuff like when EVA dropsaults Ocelot with a '''motorcycle'''. Even though i got some complaints the game is still one of the best games of all time.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 23:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

:Sure is, I really like Ocelot in this game, he is so badass with his revolver tricks and that hand gesture he does all the time. I also like how the game has you use survival tactics too, such as finding food, and treating your injuries. It was this game got me into MGS.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 23:57, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
::I also like how Ocelot kinda admires Snake. I also like how Ocelot is basically a Cowboy and how Snake says that the engraving on his SAA ins't useful tatical wise. I just love this game. I think I'm the only one that laughed in MGS2 when there was the easter egg where snake is caught having a....ugh...erm... a ''happy time'' in a locker. Or was it MGS1? Anyway, i have some complaints about the game though. Like how EVA is supposed to be chinese and she looks extremely american or all the anachroisms (I probably spelled that wrong) or how Snake spergs out about guns.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 00:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

:::If I remember correctly, and it's possible I may not because I haven't played MGS3 in a while, Eva was actually American but had been kidnapped by the Philosophers and sent to China, where she grew up in an orphanage-type place and was trained as a Chinese agent. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
::I don't know but she's either Chinese or an american that defected to the chinese or she could be what you just said, Spartan.-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 14:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::She could be based on those Americans who was captured during the Korean war, in which they been indoctrinated about the Chinese Communism. When the war was over, they were released and starting to promote Communism in U.S. However Eva is not captured, so I guess she was either left behind by her American parents in China (could be Shanghai) when Mao Zedong won the Chinese Civil war and send to an orphanage or she was kidnapped by the Chinese Philosophers and train her into an agent. - Han

I remember this was the most played Metal Gear Solid game I've ever own. I would play it over and over more than my remake of MGS1 and MGS2. When MGS4 came out, I still had time to play the 3rd one again because of the story and gameplay. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 06:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Airsoft 1911 ==

[[Image:Snake_.45-2.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Snake's custom M1911: in reality, a custom airsoft gun made by Sheriff Co. of Japan.]]

I dont think thats the model they used in the game. First of all, it was a Government model, and on its slide it had 90 degree serrations like the GI M1911A1(Both on the front and on the back). The grip safety was a standard m1911a1 grip safety, but was edited in some regions. The trigger had 5 or 6 holes in it. It had a threaded black barrel, and the wooden grips were cut to accomodate a cqc knife. That 1911 may look similar to untrained eyes, but it's quite different from what Big Boss had in Op.Snake Eater.

:Actually, the custom M1911A1 Naked Snake uses has ''no grip safety whatsoever''. This is mentioned during radio conversations with Sigint. --Orca*

Could someone try to get a screencap of it from the menu rather than using the one from my site, and don't try to deny it, I edited it to remove the markings on the slide.
-Crimson.
This 1911 looks more like a colt XSE to me...-izak 99

this is the exact copy, more or less.. just an airsoft replica, copy paste the link*
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.y-cw.com/hal-12b.htm&ei=IIsUSsbuE9HVlQf4qrTFAw&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnm%2B7267719%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DADBS,ADBS:2006-45,ADBS:en

Moved this into discussion. As I also noted in the MGS4 discussion, the airsoft gun in the picture has little more than a slight superficial resemblance to the weapon in the game. The link above seems to be a more accurate replica of the pistol in the game.

== Slide lock on the tranq pistols ==
Why is it Snake never simply ''disengages'' the slide lock on the tranq pistols in these games in order to enable them to cycle on their own? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:48, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Best guess is that the rounds don't have the power to fully cycle the slide on their own.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 23:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

its so that it is quieter apperently. if he fires without the slide lock it will become louder---[[Special:Contributions/92.12.88.35|92.12.88.35]] 15:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC) i think that is from the manual or something, cos i definatly is true
:Personally I'd rather have a slightly ''louder'' pistol that can cycle on its own rather than a slightly ''quieter'' one that's, in effect, a "bolt action" pistol. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes I wish the game let the player disengage the slide-lock on the tranq pistols when you're not using it with a suppressor. That would make it more useful in boss fights or other situations where you want to use non-lethal force but either don't have suppressors for the Hush Puppy or don't want to use one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:As I understand it, the S&W Model 39's used for ''Hush Pupppy's'' were irreversibly modified -- the slide-lock function could not be disengaged. A later version of the slide-lock pistol was the Beretta M9, and its modification, while also permanent, permitted the weapon to be disengaged from a manual reloading function into semiautomatic function. Snake, however, was NOT PERMITTED TO ENGAGE during the ''Virtuous Mission'', the operation in which he was issued the Mk.22. Hence, the added silence of a slide-lock pistol, the ammunition, etc., were not meant for direct combat -- they were meant for sneaking. The same thing goes for Solid Snake in MGS2 -- sneaking mission, stealth only, do not kill Marines. Than the Russians came... And Snake picked up a USP, first chance he got. ;) --Orca*

::I really don't think what Snake was or wasn't permitted to do is at all relevant. As with any black operation, there's always the possibility that you can be compromised and engaged yourself. When SEALs or some other SOF team goes on a recon mission where their ROE don't permit them to engage, the whole team doesn't take M4s modified to be hand-cycled only, do they? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:::Wouldn't know -- not a SEAL. But I imagine they have, in addition to their primaries, some sort of option for silent killing from a ranged distance -- the Mk.22 was developed to kill guard dogs; something that SF teams wouldn't be able to easily sneak up on and stab (or whatever). The Mk.22 represented in MGS3 uses that aspect, of 'the most silence possible from a distance', because solo ops were a FOX UNIT selling point to the CIA, who would organize them into an official unit if they succeeded in a completely undetectable rescue -- no deaths on either side, objective achieved, no traces to the US. Supposedly, even Snake's shell casings were unmarked, to say nothing of the tranquilizer load. Invisibility; on a physical and politcal scale, that was the mission as the story tells it, and so the Mk.22 was seen as the best choice to send Snake, already lightly loaded, in with. --Orca*

Where exactly are you getting that the Mk. 22 was developed specifically to "kill guard dogs"? Having an extra gun on you specifically to kill a few guard dogs that:
1. may or may not be there
2. are likely within full view of their handlers
seems incredibly superfluous when any silenced pistol would do the job equally well. Forgive me if I'm a tad bit skeptical of that claim. -- K [[Special:Contributions/98.118.59.151|98.118.59.151]] 17:59, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

:Sorry for the late reply -- The Mk.22 was nicknamed ''Hush Puppy'' due to this reason. You raise an excellent point; if I had to guess, the pistol was more than likely used on the handler(s), or sentries, or anything else that needed to be killed without raising alarm, as well. But I've never read anything that denoted it for that purpose; I've only ever read of the Mk.22 being developed to silently kill dogs. In terms of other sileneced pistols is use by the US in 1960's, I couldn't suggest anything off the top of my head. MGS3 represented suppressors the for XM16E1 and the 1911A1 as very compact for the time, or as far as I know of, so I'm not certain why the Mk.22 would have been seen as necessary if there had been other alternatives that would do things just as easily. Perhaps it was due to the slide-lock? Maybe that made it quieter and more appealing to those who used it? -- Orca*

:According to a couple books I've read, the whole "killing guard dogs" bit was a ploy to get the pistol through bureaucratic red tape because certain powers-that-be thought that killing enemy combatants with a silenced weapon was "dishonorable" or something like that. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:26, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

::Apparently the idea is locking the slide prevents gas release from the ejection port as the weapon cycles, minimises the sound of cycling by letting the user do it slowly, and also means the gun isn't throwing brass around you'd have to look for (ground sign, and all). Most of the really quiet covert weapons use manually operated actions (eg De Lisle, Welrod), so it's not like it's just this one. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 11:17, 7 March 2011 (MSK)

== Reloading while carrying a knife ==

I understand the tactics behind holding a knife in your reaction hand while you grip the weapon, but in reloading, that's just one extra thing you have to worry about not dropping. How would you get a good grasp of the spare mag while holding onto a knife. Snake seems to have no problems but it just occurred to me that trying this in real life can be very dangerous. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 16:24, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

:It's even worse in MGS4 where apparently no one has ever heard of bayonets and always has a knife in the off-hand. It's part of the bias towards the gun-and-knife tactics of CQC that the series gained since MGS3. One way I think the reload could work with the knife in your off hand is if you grip the knife with your ring and pinky finger while using your thumb, index, and middle fingers to grip the mag. The real answer, however, would require that you look closely at the reload animations in this game or MGS4 to find out how they do it. They're all motion-captured, so they all have to be something real human beings can do. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:49, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
::It's not that they've never heard of bayonets. It's that bayonets are a clumsy, antiquated last ditch weapon. They are good in practice for basically one thing, and that is to (hopefully) turn your assault rifle into something like a spear which you will somehow manage to stab your enemy with before he fills you full of messy holes. You fix bayonets when you are out of bullets, grenades, helmets to throw at the other guy, air support and better ideas. In the close-quarters combat techniques that MGS' CQC is based on, the actual purpose of a knife is not merely as a cutting and slashing weapon; the knife serves as a method of controlling an opponent using pain-compliance and leverage. Granted I never saw anyone carry their knife like that ''all the time'', but then if I've been within a hundred miles of some special forces unit, they never bothered to come over and ask if I'd build 'em a house or something. I've definitely never seen anyone just running around with their bayonet fixed though. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 00:53, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
:Thinking back on this I believe it would be more convenient, simply for the sake of gameplay, if Snake could fix his Stun Knife as a bayonet onto his various long guns, then it would be simpler to simply tap an NPC with his new bayonet to stun them into submission or kill them silently with a well-placed stab instead of having to equip the knife to do so, or to rely on CQC (which takes more time). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:54, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

Here's an experiment to try: Get a gun in one hand and a steak knife in the other. Hold the knife with the blade down just like Big Boss does. Now eject the magazine. Just let it drop, dont worry about it. Now pick it back up or find a new magazine. Do so by gripping the knife with your ring finger and pinky and clamping it against your palm. It keeps it in place and keeps it stable. Use your thumb, index finger, and middle finger to manipulate the magazine and rack the slide. Resume your grip and go about your day. It might sound complicated but even doing it four or fives times it starts to get easier. Big Boss holds his gun like this EVERY SINGLE TIME. So inconclusion it isnt that dangerous or awkward. go ahead and try it for yourself.

-Double Agent M

:I rather not recommend random people online to try a trick that an ingame "professional" can do. As I said, if you aren't careful, you could end up stabbing yourself in the gut. The point of reloading is to get a firm and complete grip on the spare mags and then get it out and into the gun as efficiently as possible. Not doing it super speed like some people would try, but even doing it slowly, you'd have to mentally check the knife with that blade sticking out. You'd need to train yourself constantly with a fake knife before using a live blade. Otherwise, the chances for an amateur to stab himself is very high. And I don't want anyone to point back on my article if I say "hey, try this at home and NOT end up stabbing yourself with a steak Knife". if you reload without a complete grip on the mag, you might drop it or the knife. Remember this is Big Boss! And Solid Snake can do it as well, though oddly enough he never did that in Metal Gear Solid, or MGS2. Solid Snake only started to do the knife and handgun combo after MGS3 when we've known about Big Boss's early years and also Solid Snake's Mk 23 was replaced with a 1911 to emulate Big Boss [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:47, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, I agree with Excalibur. That's not something the average person should try. But I should point out that Snake's knife is a lot smaller than a kitchen knife. I myself, while not technically a trained professional, ''do'' know my way around with a blade and did a little test run with one of my boot knives. Turns out, it actually ''isn't'' that awkward (though still quite dangerous). When I grab my mags, I contort my wrist to the right (thumb toward the body) and grab with my thumb, pointer, and index fingers. Holding the knife like Snake does, the blade faces ''away'' from me when I reach for a mag. So the moral here is (A) kids, ''do not'' try this at home and (B) it's actually not that hard to firmly hold both knife and magazine. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

But apparently in MGS4, Solid Snake does the knife combo with pretty much all of his guns if I am not mistaken. Imagine trying to grasp a rifle magazine while holding a knife [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 19:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

:Not that difficult, either. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I just think that holding a knife at the same time wouldbe just as extra thing to worry about and sure, a knife is good in CQB, but i doubt it will be useful having it out when you are in the open. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

:Not if your an expert at it. ;)

== The Patriot ==

It actually resembles the Rocky Mountain Arms Patriot Pistol seen in movie "Congo" and "Soldier",but this one most probably tricked out from M16A1 upper receiver with it's buttstock removed combined with the Patiot's lower receiver,and were given the M231 PFW firing mode.

*I'll see if I can get a screencap; I think the old image that was here was a real-life mock-up ''made'' from an RMA Patriot to look like the MGS4 Patriot, but I seem to recall the 3 Patriot looked ''far'' closer to the M231. [[User:Dongs|Dongs]] 11:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

:It did. It even had the threaded handguard. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

But it can't be a M231 FPW, the game takes place in 1964 and the M231 FPW was not designed until 1979! It may look like the M231 FPW but it's probably just a custom XM16E1. As far as the full-auto only goes, maybe the developers thought it did not need single-fire because it's unlimited. On a side note, Konami must of took the term "tumble rounds" wrong. The first time you see the Boss fire the Patriot, you see the 5.56 bullets fly in slow-mo and they actually tumble end over end in the air! O_o

Listen, Konami doesn't know much about guns (Including the bullets as well), so it is most likely the wet-dream of they think a "special" M-16 carbine would look like. They don't know a lot about history either, dispite the game takes place in the 1960's. - [[User:Kilgore|Kilgore]] 22:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

*The Lockheed M-21 wouldn't fly until December of 1964 or launch a drone until 1966. The Mi-24 first flew in 1969. The Bartini Beriev VVA-14 WiG is from the early 70s. I don't think being an anachronism stops it being an M231.
:Yeah I agree, but I kinda doubt Konami meant it to be a M231. I still think it's meant to be a custom M16 not a M231. Maybe it would help if you guys could get a good pic of a M231 and a good, clear close-up of the Patriot. (I could be wrong and if it is just like the M231, I think it should still be called a custom M16 on the page though.) Also, when were Beta-C magazines made.

== What ammunition does Colonel Volgin use? ==

Colonel Volgin is often seen with belts of ammunition on his person, and also often seen electrically firing long cartridges of unknown type in his fists, using the electricity in his suit to trigger them. Can anyone identify the kind of bullet he's using?

In any case, such a thing would not work in real life. The chamber and barrel of a gun aren't just for show, and if you try to fire a cartridge without them there will be consequences. Even if you could electrically trigger the primer of a cartridge in your hand, the fact that your fingers are no substitute for an actual gun chamber means that the casing will try to expand uniformly, which means instead of propelling the bullet forward the casing in the powder will just explode in all directions and likely amputate your fingers. Furthermore, without a rifled barrel to spin-stabilize the bullet or to provide a single channel to focus the expanding gas formed by the ignited powder, a bullet fired from a "naked" cartridge will be flying neither straight nor far. Oh well, the "rule of cool" overrides other petty concerns like "plausibility" or "adherence to physical laws" in the MGS universe.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:20, 5 August 2011 (CDT)

:I'll have to check when I'm getting the screencaps, but I'd imagine they're probably DshK rounds, since you don't see any other weapons around Grozny Grad that use belted ammo. Also, come on, this is a man who can also punch a hole in a concrete wall and has electrical powers for absolutely no reason. He probably has magic invisible electro-barrels which he created through the sheer power of his bastardry. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:32, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

::lol, that's what I was thinking when I play through the game. :D If I remember right they might have been belts of 7.62x54mmR or 7.62x39mm rounds, the bullets looked too small to be .50 cals but that's just what I remember. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:52, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

Yep, the only way it could ever work is if he carried small gun barrels between his fingers and inserted the rounds manually into those barrels before electrically triggering them. Even with that, he'd only get three shots per hand at most (not the long bursts he fires in his boss fight), he'd have to take a long time manually reinserting those rounds into those short barrels (unless it was something like a volley gun configuration arranged in a straight "W" pattern and he used something like straight moon clips to hold the rounds together during insertion), and he'd have to deal with the issues of incredible muzzle blast and flash, along with the drawbacks of very short rifling. Still, I hope you'll include shots of Volgin firing those rounds from his hands, as well as the scene when Volgin meets his end when all the ammunition in his belts cooks off.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:31, 6 August 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I'll probably just put it down as "Volgin's hands" as a trivia note, a bit like the guy's hand in Shoot 'Em Up. And the rounds cooking off is the one time it's right, because even if it wouldn't fire the bullets, I can't see that not killing him. Of course, I can't see being struck by lightning not killing him either, but then we're talking about Volgin here. He's a large part of the reason this is my favourite game in the series, he's just so ''happy'' being evil and ridiculous. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:49, 8 August 2011 (CDT)

::Love this game too mate. Frankly, I love all four of the ''Solid'' games. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]]

== Ocelot's 9x18 Makarov Cartridge ==

Now, he carries the round that caused a stovepipe on him in the first encounter with Snake all the way through the game up until the final showdown: my question is, what is that thing around the cartridge? He's able to make a 9x18 Makarov fire using a Colt Single Action Army in the final showdown. What are the *realistic* consequences of trying to fire a 9x18 Mak in a .45 Long Colt chambered firearm? -- Long Fallen 23:57, 12 January 2012 (CST)
:Since the rim of a 9x18mm Makarov is narrower than the neck of a .45 Long Colt, the consequence would be it would be kinda rattling around inside the cylinder and that it wouldn't be held in place for the hammer to strike the primer. Also spinning the cylinder would provide a fair chance of the nose of the Makarov round sliding foward and making it stick. Unless the "thing" is him having re-seated the bullet (or the entire round) inside a .45 LC case (in which case accuracy and muzzle velocity would both stink since the bullet wouldn't be as wide as the barrel, to the point you might not even kill someone at point-blank range) there's no way it would work at all. I think you're just not supposed to think about that bit too hard / at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:06, 13 January 2012 (CST)
::Ah, so it's just Kojima brand logic then, common sense alone pretty much hinted at what you explained. I just had to ask, since it's easily noticeable in the HD remake, and that the stovepiped cartridge had this whole big deal behind it. Also, no one seems to have pointed it out. Thanks :) -- Long Fallen 19:05, 13 January 2012 (CST)

Talk:Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater

2012-01-13T05:57:39Z

Long Fallen: /* Ocelot's 9x18 Makarov Cartridge */ new section

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-22T04:23:04Z

Long Fallen: /* Added a piece of info about the M1014 */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T07:37:15Z

Long Fallen: /* 9K22 Tunguska */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T07:36:54Z

Long Fallen: /* 9K22 Tunguska */ new section

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T07:36:45Z

Long Fallen: /* 9K22 Tunguska */ new section

Talk:Combat Arms

2011-12-20T07:29:07Z

Long Fallen: /* I Wonder Why The Page Stopped Being Updated? */ new section

I didn't think this page would take this long or be this big! - [[User:Gunmaster45|Gunmaster45]]

== Glock 18c ==

Forgive me if If Im wrong here but doesnt the "C" in Glock 18c mean that its compensated? At least thats what its says in the wikipedia article. And judging by the picture there doesn't seem to be any compensators on it. If someone could just clarify that for me. Thanks

:The Glock 18C has cuts in the barrel and slide making it internally compensated, therefore it has no need for an external comp. -[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 03:59, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

== m16s with 4 position selectors ==

There are m16s with a 4 position selector. Check retroblackrifle.com for more info on the models used it, mostly the CAR-15 family. Their use on an A3/A4 is dubious, but possible, since you can buy the parts from a number of places. The Chinese T91(m16 clone with short stroke piston upper) has a 4 position selector. The South Korean K series rifles also have this feature. So your desciption is inaccurate. --[[User:Zurak 47|Zurak 47]] 20:21, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

== Saiga 20K ==

In real life the Saiga shotguns are semi auto only, even the military models. Not full auto as you mention on this page. --[[User:Zurak 47|Zurak 47]] 20:39, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

the saiga can be converted full auto in real life. the designers of this game know nothing about firearms at all.

tell me if im wrong

m16a1-vietnam era weapon: no forward assist, typically triangular handguard, full auto, different muzzle brake than current standard (maybe)

m16a2- the most iconic: cylindrical handguard, 3 rnd burst, forward assist, improved rear sights

m16a3 - same as a2, but with flatop upper and detachable carry handle

m16a4 - same as a3 but with Knights Armament battle rail system.

so....why is the m16a3 "mislabeled"?

Wrong.

M16- VN era, No forward assist, Triangular hand guard, Safe/Semi/Full, 3 prong flash hider.

M16A1- VN-1980s (up till early 2000 in some NG units), same as above with the addition of a forward assist, and birdcage flash hider.

M16A2- the one you are actually right about.

M16A3- Full auto version of the M16A2, adopted by the US Navy, effectively an A1 lower with an A2 upper.

M16A4- M16A2 with flat top receiver and removable carry handle.

And by design there is not and probably will never be an M16 that has a 4 position trigger group. Clones? yes, real M16? NO.

Also just because a weapon can be Jerryrigged to be full auto, does not mean that it comes that way from the factory. By your logic, we should also have the M1 Garand labeled as full auto as well because some people have modified them to be full auto and the military in the latter days of WWII made some full auto external magazine fed prototypes...

-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 03:59, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

==Screenshots==
Are we going to leave it the way it is counting that it is most likely going to get bigger or should we also add in-game scrrenshots. I have the game so I'm just wondering. --[[Special:Contributions/24.240.65.152|24.240.65.152]] 00:49, 26 May 2010 (UTC)(ThePotshot)

I tried putting in a screenshot of the so-called "ACR" to identify it as a mocked-up SCAR-L, but the copy-and-paste isn't working so well for me. --[[User:Cld|Cld]] 08:33, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

== "ACR" ==

I know that by general definition the ACR was supposed to be by Bushmaster (or rather, originally by Magpul), but when I checked closely at the markings in-game, it was pointing to FNH, so I had a hunch that Nexon just hacked up a SCAR to make it a "ACR", or that there is a supposed unknown "ACR" project. Any insight on this? --[[User:Cld|Cld]] 09:08, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

You're correct: The "ACR" in-game looks NOTHING like Remington's ACR (Different buttstock, different reciever, STANAG Magazine instead of PMag, Different charging handle location, etc.) It has all the look of the SCAR, albeit it's been chopped up and such. So do we we still count it as and ACR, or do we put it under "SCAR-L (Chopped and Converted)", or something? [[User:GamerfreakB7|GamerfreakB7]]

I'm assuming it should be counted as a "quote-ACR-unquote" (like the title of this section) when it comes to writing the section, and in the description, just mention that it's a modified SCAR. --[[User:Cld|Cld]] 08:24, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

== Game Modes ==
What the **** are the game modes doing on this page? When did '''IMFDb''' turn into a game-guide site??? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:14, 26 March 2011 (CDT)

*Added by someone called "Cld" in January, and yeah, pretty useless since none of it had anything to do with weapons. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:39, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

== I Wonder Why The Page Stopped Being Updated? ==

Popularity decline? Or is it because it just isn't that interesting of a game to talk about? -- Long Fallen 01:29, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T07:26:57Z

Long Fallen: /* Javelins are the best. */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T07:25:44Z

Long Fallen: /* Javelins are the best. */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-20T04:32:42Z

Long Fallen: /* Javelins are the best. */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-12T04:44:58Z

Long Fallen: /* Just some silliness */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-12T04:40:59Z

Long Fallen: /* Current Page Status / More Images */ new section

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-12T04:11:24Z

Long Fallen: /* Just some silliness */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-10T05:18:59Z

Long Fallen: /* My God */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-03T20:20:26Z

Long Fallen: /* Back to Karkand */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-12-03T20:17:57Z

Long Fallen: /* My God */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-27T22:19:27Z

Long Fallen: /* Kaffarov's Private Army */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-27T08:43:31Z

Long Fallen: /* Kaffarov's Private Army */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-27T03:16:50Z

Long Fallen: /* Kaffarov's Private Army */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-25T06:42:19Z

Long Fallen: /* M203 Dog tag */

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-11-24T10:47:18Z

Long Fallen: /* Two USPs */

See [[Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

== KSG ==

Kinda surprised it never appears in singleplayer since it's supposed to be one of the "gimmick" guns for this game, has anyone seen one anywhere? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:07, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::Right now it's still in production. It was apparently a HUGE hit at the 2011 SHOT Show, however on the downside Kel-Tec is a pretty small manufacturer who happens to make pretty popular products, and that results in some pretty severe backlogging. I think they are planning on releasing it in early 2012 last I heard. The best part though is it's supposedly not going to be that expensive! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 18:14, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::: This gun is out now! It's going for between $650 and $800 depending on where you shop. I found 6 different places selling it by putting a simple search into Google. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

I think he meant in the game, but that's good news too!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:22, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I did. And now I've got one, I get to discover they got literally ''everything'' about it wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:22, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Do tell :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:42, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::: LOL ooooooops! I haven't found the gun in single player, but I didn't do much searching either. But yea it's so messed up in the game (multiplayer). First, it's not a continuous fire shotgun. You get 7, then have to manually switch (not exactly sure how) to the other tube which holds another 7. Second, for being a 12 gauge, the damage is absurdly low. It took me an average of 3 torso hits to kill someone. Also, you would think they would give this shotgun to have slugs in one tube, and buckshot in the other! After all, that was the main idea behind the gun! Instant ammo switching or a lot of ammo in a compact package! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Way to ruin an awesome gun!!! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 17:00, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::In Survival it's 12 rounds and it's just treated as a standard shotgun; no switching tube mags. It's more or less just a crappier version of the Striker with even less damage and slow pump rather than semi-auto. Everything I've read implies it's 12 in multi too, which as I said on the page would only be true if it were using 3" shells; since it damages like it's using 1 1/2" shells loaded with sand, I'm just writing that up as an error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:08, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Mk 14 ==

on the pic Price's Mk 14 has a CTR stock so it is a Mod 1 --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:20, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Soap's M1911 ==
In the pic of his holster, that's not a 1911. Looks like an M9, by the grips and slide safety groove. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:03, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== reload animations ==

A lot of the reloads are still carried from the previous games but what baffles me is there are plenty of guns that have a cocking handle on the left side and even some are the same gun like the MG36 and the G36 but both cock the charging handle from different sides. I was hoping the ACR would changed, but nothing really changed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Beefed up gun sounds ==

I am really liking the beefed up gun shots in this game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)
::Lol... Everything but the ARs have good sounds, and everyone else's gunfire sounds great (ie. your standing next to them). Now I'll admit I'm only about 1/2 way through the ranking so I don't have all of the guns unlocked, so I don't know what some of the later guns sound like. I will say though, the Dragunov gunshot is incredible. I mean like 100% dead on. The L118 is the right sound, BUT NOT LOUD ENOUGH!!! That gunshot should be teeth rattling! The Barrett M107 is the same way; right but not loud enough! I just cope with it by cranking the volume when no one's home :D --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:36, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:::Actually, this was one of the things I really ''didn't'' like in this game, they all sound like they were made on a computer as opposed to being recorded. Think of the M200 in MW2, and a few others, they sound like, well, it's hard to describe, but something like metal hitting against metal? I dunno, but the Desert Eagle's sound in this is very bad compared to COD4 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)

::::That's what I think the Assault Rifles and quite a few LMGs sound like. They finally fixed the pistols and sniper rifle's sounds, but totally messed up the others! What the heck? --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 14:50, 11 November 2011 (CST)

== Overall thoughts on the game ==
To be honest folks, this game turned out really good in the end. The gameplay doesn't feel as noobified like the last game was, the graphics, game engine and gameplay is more sharper and cleaner this time around as opposed to the glitches and bugs in second game, the multiplayer isn't so bland, the SpecOps feel more polished and fun, and the game's story explained a whole lot more stuff to the overall plot than Modern Warfare 2 did, and it left it on a more appropriate closure to the series. All in all, a good game. Maybe it's nothing groundbreaking in the "realism" factor (We'll leave that to Battlefield), but it still turned out to be a damn good game, and definitely worth the price. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:42, 11 November 2011 (CST)

::After watching the whole Singleplayer playthrough, and some MP stuff too, I agree. While (to me) it doesn't beat MW1, it sure is better than MW2 and BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)
:Modern Warfare 3 had the gameplay of Modern Warfare 2, but has more-balanced multiplayer content (though the multiplayer is obviously borrowed from Modern Warfare 2), gameplay, perks, satisfying story with clear parts (unlike Modern Warfare 2, which had a muddled plot), and like everyone said, realistic gun sounds. Even though it is not as successful or good as the older Call of Duty games and the other modern FPS games, it is overall the best video game set during modern times. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:33, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:::Well, it being the best modern shooter is your opinion, and I'm certainly not trying to say that it's ''wrong'', but for me MW1 and BF3 both take the that title. I agree with your summary though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:21, 11 November 2011 (CST)

== MP5K? ==

Is there actually an MP5K in the game, or is this just an MP5A2 that someone misidentified ages ago? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:32, 12 November 2011 (CST)

:No, that is actually an MP5K (you can see the name on the right is "MP5K holographic," and the hold is with the PC's thumb covering more of the rail, implying it's shorter), it was just cut from the final game. It's quite likely that when the dev console codes come out you'll be able to call it up in singleplayer with a "give" cheat. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:45, 12 November 2011 (CST)

::As we all know a lot of things in Call of Duty games are copy-pasted from previous ones, and since what we see of the K looks identical to the MW3 MP5, and we can see the reload animation is copy-pasted from the MW2 K, so I'm betting they copy-pasted the whole gun, changed the model, but didn't change the name til after that video. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:26, 12 November 2011 (CST)
:::This MP5K (if that is what it is, am still not 101% convinced) isn't the one from MW2 as has different rail system and a solid butt. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:40, 12 November 2011 (CST)

::::You misunderstood, the MW3 MP5K we're looking at, and the normal MP5 in MW3 look the same. The game files for the MP5K were brought over from MW2, and it was given a new model and name, but the name hadn't been changed yet as of the video. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:53, 12 November 2011 (CST)

:::::I don't think so, the one labelled as an MP5K looks shorter. Edit: Actually, looking at the Spec-Ops trailer and my own caps you might be right, it's the MW3 MP5 but he's holding it like it's an MP5K because it doesn't have new hand positions yet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:35, 12 November 2011 (CST)

== RSASS Secondary Sight on the Wrong Side ==

Has anybody else noticed that the red dot secondary sight is mounted in the wrong (left) side? If your holding the gun as a rightie, than it needs to be on the right side so that the hand holding the pistol grip just has to twist outwards. With it being on the left side, you have to twist your hand inwards to be able to look through the sight, and between a pistol grip in the gut, no stock surface on your shoulder, a magazine getting in the way of your support hand, and a 100% unnatural face angle, it ain't happening. But what else is new. Go figure. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)

:You'd think you'd just put it on the top or side of the scope, regardless. But the left hold kinda works if you're willing to stick your "wing" right out for it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:16, 13 November 2011 (CST)

::I noticed that too but I just figured they wanted the player to see it. Even though it's wrong, I think it's still cool that they tried it. reminds me of Jerry Miculek doing a 3 gun match.--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 20:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::That's probably it, and also probably the reason for some other subtle reasons such as the Pechang LMG feeding from the wrong side and so on. I personally know that if I couldn't see it in game, I probably would forget about it. They pretty much dropped realism for gameplay. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 20:25, 20 November 2011 (CST)

== Barrett ==

Price used an M82A1 in Pripyat as the M107 wasn't even developed 15 years before 2011. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:30, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:Oh, whoops. Although a weapon not being invented yet has historically never been a problem for this series, you know. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:43, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::CoughBlackOpsCough..... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:53, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:::OMFG, is that a suppressed RSASS between the two RPG's? In '96? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:34, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::::See? SEE?! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:42, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:CoD... CoD... -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:02, 15 November 2011 (CST)

Also, the helicopter flying past is an Mi-28N (round ball above the rotor), which wasn't delivered until 2006. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:10, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:Exactly. I recently updated CoD4:MW's main page about that issue. But something else I would like to know if in anyway, is it matter if Price used the M82A1 rather than the L96, even though the British Army does using the M82A1? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:24, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::The range involved, you'd be pushing things with just a 7.62. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

:::Ah, okay. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:42, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::::Back then a Barrett M82A1 would be the correct weapon for an SAS sniper at long range. Although the M82A1 is still in the British army inventory, The AW50F tends to be favoured nowadays by both special forces and regulars (mainly EOD and anti material), so this weapon choice is chronologically correct although I think this is purely by accident. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:10, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Sigh, RSASSs... At least the weapons in the two flashback missions were close to being right, at most a couple years too early, but these? Really? Of all the guns they could have picked for that scene :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:To give Blops one point, the framing device does add some scope for ridiculous weapons (the action is being recounted by a man who's half dead, dosed up to the eyeballs on drugs and being tortured), though that in turn raises the question of why the interrogator is apparently letting him describe exactly how he shot every single person. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:02, 18 November 2011 (CST)

==EOTech XPS Logo==
There's nothing ridiculous about it, it actually ''is'' that big. [http://webyshops.com/ns/images/EOTech/EOTech-EXPS2-2-Holographic-Sight-2-dot-Ballistic-Reticle-with-3X-Magnifier-and-FTS-Mount-Flipped-View-MPO-III-Pic1.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:59, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Actually, there's still something ridiculous about that. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:12, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::How come? It's the same one. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:33, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Because it's ridiculous in real life too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Minigun ==

Are we sure it's Dillon Aero rather than Garwood Industries' [http://www.garwoodindustries.com/proddetail.php?prod=M-134G M-134G]? I can't find a Dillon with that top-mounted RIS rail, but Garwood's one has it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:44, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:If you go onto YouTube, you can find people shooting Dillon Aero miniguns with rails. It's more of an aftermarket thing, but they are out there. I'm also not sure why you wouldn't be able to find a photo, as 95% of handheld military arms have rails on them. Since the adoption of the M16A3/A4, rails have become pretty much standard on everything that might remotely need a sight. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:45, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, I meant I couldn't find a base model on their site with rails. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:06, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::Oh well you likely won't find one then. What is likely though, is the gun is probably drilled and tapped for the rail and shipped with filler screws, so that whoever receives the gun can add a rail if they want to. It's a pretty common practice on a lot of rifles. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:23, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::I wouldn't worry too much about the rail, as it is mounted in the wrong place anyway. Any sight rail I have seen on a minigun has been mounted to the yoke rather than to the gun body itself. Regardless, from the slotted flash suppressor the closest match is a GAU-17/A, which incidentally also has a sight rail. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::[[File:GAU-17A HH60.jpg|thumb|400px|none|GAU-17/A mounted on an HH-60H Seahawk - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
::::Looking at the screencaps again, just noticed that although it has the barrel assembly of a GAU-17/A it has dome Dillon parts, including the spade grips, the gun drive motor and gun control unit. Also, when you fire the gun, does the character press down with his thumbs, because this is what it looks like in the screenshot. If so, I think that this is incorrect as the fire buttons are on the GCU and the buttons on top of the spade grips can be optionally wired up to activate things like lasers or illuminators, or to deploy flares and chaff. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:16, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Yes. He rests his thumbs together in the middle when not firing, that's "firing" even though you can't see a muzzle flash in that shot. But looking at Dillon's site, the wording implies that those switches can be used for other functions ''or'' as triggers, so it might not be wrong, just weird. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:37, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::The trigger on these things can be a number of different options. I've seen a butterfly trigger with 2 toggle switches (one for power, the other for rate of fire) and I have seen ones with a power toggle switch and two button triggers, both firing the the weapon but each at different rates of fire. These guns are built to order, so all that's shown on the website is a base model. Extra features can be had when someone orders it.

::::::The rail is next to useless anyway though, because the gun is intended to be walked onto target. You start firing in the general direction, then move the gun onto target by watching the tracers (every 4th or 5th round). This makes red dot sights and most lasers pretty much worthless.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 10:58, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Well, the rail's always empty in CoD, so they might have actually got something right there. It's just there under the Black theory that adding a RIS rail makes any gun 30% better (the average gun in Black is thus roughly 270% better). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::::LOL In the shooting community here, rails are super popular among people, but they add weight onto guns REALLY fast. Taking an AR-15 and switching out a normal handguard to a quad rail immediately adds on 8-20 ounces of weight (depending on rail length). Factor in grips, lights, and lasers, it gets heavy way too fast!--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:08, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::::::::And of course the 37mm flare launcher that you tell everyone is an M203, that's a vital part of every ridiculous range toy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::::::Pah those things are really cool but ridiculously heavy. They are quite a bit of fun at night though!--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:30, 16 November 2011 (CST)
I don't think those top thumb switches can be configured to fire the gun, as don't think there is an "input" into the GCU other than the main power supply. There is one plug I'm not 100% sure about, but when looking at pictures if it is attached it always goes away from the gun, possibly it is the power supply to the ammo booster if fitted but don't know. As for the rail thing, the one time a sight is handy is if you want to fire a warning shot across something, as would be a bit embarrassing to start firing and mince the target accidentally because you judged it slightly wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:37, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:Ok 1st, I don't think anyone on earth would fire a warning shot with a minigun. That just seems stupid beyond belief. Another reason a sight is worthless is because it doesn't take into account windage, lead, and bullet drop, especially if moving. These are all things you have to eyeball in order to make a hit.
:As for those switches, they can. It's all about how the manufacturer sends the gun out and simple electronics. Just like I could wire up all the lights in the house to be turned on with a timer or from my car, but there's just no reason to do so. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:58, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::I am only talking about the Dillon M134D, how other manufacturer set up their fire control group is up to them, but the spade grips here are for a Dillon. The GCU has 1 input and 2 or 3 outputs. Input is main power to the gun, first two outputs are for the motor and the clutch, and the third, if connected, goes away from the gun, my guess to the ammunition booster but not 100%.
::Warning shot from a minigun is not stupid, I have done it a couple of times to discourage fast boats getting a bit too close to where they shouldn't be, and it works pretty damn well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:07, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Fun fact ==

This screenshot

[[Image:MW3-Magnum-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Is actually ''impossible'' to get using Steam's screenshot feature, since it won't take shots during that part of the intro (loading, I guess). In the end I had to use FRAPS. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:25, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Glock 18C/Glock 17 hybrid? ==

I couldn't find a good picture to verify currectly, but even so the developers remembered to add a fire selector switch this time, let's not forget that the really really actual Glock 18C has compensator cuts on both the slider and barrel, in order to reduce the recoil (if I'm not mistaken).

[[Image:MW3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Undeterred by this, he's soon using his Glock to blow a Russian patrol boat in half. One-handed, no less.]]

If you open the picture above in a new tab, zoom in and look closely on the slider, there are no compensator cuts. Could this be, still, the same covereted-full-auto-fire Glock 17 model from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'', only with a fire selector switch? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 07:41, 17 November 2011 (CST)
:It is a Glock 18 not the 18C. Whoever wrote the "C" was wrong. Real G18C can be seen in [[GRAW]] for example. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:22, 17 November 2011 (CST)
:: +1 for the normal Glock 18. The C stands for compensator, and since it doesn't have one, It won't be a Glock 18C, just a normal Glock 18.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:00, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::Okay, guys, thanks for answering that :) --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:58, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Just noticed, they have put the fire selector on backwards. WTF is wrong with these people, it takes conscious effort to make some of these mistakes. It's like they just mess with stuff for the hell of it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:09, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:It's a little hard to tell, but it looks like it's on correctly. But as a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if they read these entries and switch stuff last minute just to mess with us lol...
:A side note that I noticed: The Glock 18 has way to little recoil for being uncompensated. The compensator removes about 1/2 the muzzle climb, however for being uncompensated and full auto, it really doesn't seem to have that much recoil.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:29, 17 November 2011 (CST)
::In the above image you can see the "pointer" on the fire selector, which is pointing backwards (If you zoom in you can see part of the circle of the selector above the straight "pointer" part which you wouldn't see if it was pointing forwards correctly). On a real Glock 18 the two positions are both forwards (up for semi down for auto). An easier way to see that it is wrong is in the create a class menu:
::[[File:Weapon g18 large.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
::The serrations are in the wrong place due to this, and the selector is too far back as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:06, 17 November 2011 (CST)
Gotchya. I wasn't sure if in the photo it was the pointer or a shadow, but I see it now. Go figure...--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 17:28, 17 November 2011 (CST)

::Also the magazine is shorter than an actual 31/33 round magazine, but it's still too long for a 20 rounder, 19-round mags (17-round Glock mag with a +2 base plate) are flush fitting. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:21, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== HD Screenshots from the MW3 Commercial ==

Here's some screenshots from the MW3 Commercial starring [[Sam Worthington]] and [[Jonah Hill]]:
[[File:MW3Com 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:MW3Com 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:MW3Com 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
^That one makes me laugh my ass off every time I look at it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:41, 22 November 2011 (CST)
[[File:MW3Com 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b now shows off the skills he's learned from The Vet.]]

It might be a good idea to give this its own subheading (or even sub-page, there's a lot of weapons in the trailer). Usually we cover guns that appear in trailers and previews, but it's rather unique for a game trailer to have so many real weapons in it, and it'd look weird shoehorning shots from this trailer into the main page's gun entries. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:28, 18 November 2011 (CST)
:Here's some more screenshots from the same commercial. Note that I accidentally uploaded an existing screenshot. The following weapons appear in the commercial: FN SCAR-L, Czech Skorpions, RPG-7, M67 grenade, Barret M82, 9-Bang, M4A1 Carbine, M1911 and its modern variants, AKMS, Remington RSASS, M60E4, M16A2, and the M203 launcher. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:56, 18 November 2011 (CST)
::Actually, that "SCAR-L" is an ACR. :\ BTW, I just love this commercial for some reason. =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Seeing Sam Worthington in it just feels weird, since he's the star of BO. Do you think it was a dig at Treyarch? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:57, 22 November 2011 (CST)
::::Well, the rules on IMFDB state that commercials are not allowed to have their own pages. But maybe these screenshots can have their own section on the bottom of the Modern Warfare 3 main page as a "trivia special"? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 01:58, 23 November 2011 (CST)
:::::The thing is while commercials are not allowed, ''trailers'' usually are allowed on the main page. I think in this very unusual case this trailer has enough guns to warrant a page of it's own. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:52, 23 November 2011 (CST)
[[Image:MW3Noob-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== I can't be the only one ==

[[image:CODBO-TDIVector.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Whenever I look at this image I feel an urgent need to photoshop Bill and Ted in either side of him and add the caption "EXCELLENT!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:34, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Lolz. X) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Hahaha!! :D Nice one!! - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:44, 20 November 2011 (CST)

== Colt License ==
Did Colt have a licensing agreement with MW3, as well because if you look at the charging handle of the CM901, it has the Colt logo printed on it. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:49, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:I've got an image of the thanks section from the credits which includes everyone who advertised, I'll post it up when I get home. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::Cool, thanks man. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:MW3-Thanksto-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

"Colt Defense LLC." Oddities include thanking "Desert Eagle" ''and'' Magnum Research, Barrett ''and'' Barrett Rifles, and that they got help from Degroat, a company that refurbishes miniguns; I guess explaining why they're GAU-17/As with Dillon bits. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:31, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:I find it amazing that the developers actually included '''Bobby Kotick''' in the special thanks section. -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::"Thanks for not firing us yet!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Kevin Smith? The director? [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:43, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== M4A1 20 round magazine ==

I find it funny that they model 30 round magazines on the M16A4, but model 20 round mags on the M4A1 with a 30 round capacity, judging by this picture below, they look like straight 30 round mags instead of curved.
[[Image:MW3-M4-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Master Sergeant "Sandman" prepares to throw a magazine to Westbrook at the very start of the game.]]
--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]
:I don't think straight 30 round STANAG magazines exist. However, there were straight 25 round magazine in the early days of the M16 that are about this length, but they are rare as hens' teeth these days and would doubt that is what the developers intended. Think it is more likely that they just modelled it wrong deliberately or accidentally. They probably liked the aesthetic of a straight magazine, but a corect length 20 round would have looked conspicuously short compared to the other rifles in the game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:10, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm more inclined to say it's an oversized straight magazine than a rare one (it could also be an M4 adapted to use FAMAS F1 mags, if we're being silly). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:19, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::There ''are'' 30 round straight STANAG magazines out there, however they are extremely rare and also unreliable because the follower tends to hang up with the magazine frame. I have seen '''maybe''' 3 of them in my 16 years of working with guns, including on the internet. The mags in the picture however are too short to be them, and they are most certainly 20 rounders. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:59, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::If you compare them to the pistol grip they're ''slightly'' too long to be 20 rounders, too, they're sorta halfway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:04, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Well that's kinda because the grip is at the wrong angle too... lol Go to my page and look at the AR-15 I have up and you'll see that the grip here is angled too far backwards, which may be part of the problem... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:15, 22 November 2011 (CST)
::::::Do you have any links to pics of 30 round straight magazines, as have never seen one. I thought the 30 round magazine were always curved, but the original ones had a shallower, constant curve rather than the subsequent ones which are straight inside the magazine well, with a more sever curve underneath. Regardless of the grip angle, the 20 round magazine is too long:
::::::[[File:COD MW3 M4A1 class.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
::::::compare to this:
::::::[[File:ColtAR-15A3TacticalCarbine.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
::::::It also lacks the M4 profile barrel, and that flash hider is ridiculous, almost looks like a non-gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:07, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Ok here is a prototype that I have had on my files for a while.

[[File:30 round straight AR mag.jpg|300px]]

It lacks the cutout for the normal mag catch because it was designed for another gun (can't remember exactly what). Those 30 round straight mags may very well be converted magazines for other mags done before AR mags were widely available. Also, the grip angle looked worse in the in-game photo than the game picture of the gun. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:27, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:Ok upon doing further research here that magazine is actually a FAL magazine. Oops! I can't find any pictures on Gunbroker because once they archive their auctions you can't go back and get the pictures. Grrr... Sorry to let you down guys. Some research I found though was that the curve was given because of reliability issues found back with the original M16, therefore any 30 round straight magazines are going to be collector items and very rare. Just interesting... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::The grip is probably at least in part due to perspective. The picture Commando posted does look to be a static render of the same in-world gun model that Sandman is carrying, it's just that one's tilted towards us while the one in my pic is tilted away. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:39, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Did anyone notice the gas piston block on top of the receiver? Look at the rear sight, then look forward a millimeter. It's obviously not a removable riser which leads me to the conclusion that it must have been modeled after an M4 with a gas piston operated upper receiver. Hmmm... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:48, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:It's fairly well documented that their primary references are usually Airsoft guns, so it could be anything. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:53, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I don't think it is based on a piston gun. The raised flat top looks more like it is due to a riser as it looks very "bitty" and slapped on top (looks a bit like the back end of whatever you call those rail systems that clamp onto the flat-top, SIR?). Also, it has a regular handguard slip ring, which I don't think you could have as it wouldn't leave enough room for the piston. The handguard itself is pretty screwed up as well, with 5 large cooling holes along the top, but 7 smaller ones along the bottom, the rail along the bottom is totally flat, and along the side isn't a rail at all, but rather a series of hollow loops much further apart than the ridges on a rail. It looks like a complete frankengun monstrosity. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:14, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I agree, the riser looks like the rear part of MW2's RIS. And this RIS is the single worst RIS I have EVER seen, in so many ways. Also, it's funny you'd use a picture of an AR-15A3, as that's the "M4A1" in COD4 :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:24, 22 November 2011 (CST)

== Delta Force Weapons ==

Anyone else annoyed at the weapons used by the AI Delta Force members? Besides the issue of the 20 RD mags on the M4s, Delta is one of the most advanced spec ops teams in the world and better funded than most units within the military, but none of the AI's guns have any sort of attachment besides M203s. You'd think that if by now basic infantry in real life has optics on their guns, then an elite team like Delta would have ACOG's or Eotechs on all of their guns in a game set in 2016.--[[User:James Woods|James Woods]] 16:27, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:And Desert Eagles... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:28, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::Also seen in the hands of other SF Units and Russian [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigBad Big Bads] [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_Eagle through the series]... It's like, seriously! D:< --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:18, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:I just was researching Delta Force. I saw alot of pictures were operators had just a normal iron sighted M4 with an M203. Literally, only two of the multiple pictures i saw, they had no optics other than an m203.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

::As they should. I would, there's nothing wrong with ironsights, it's just nowadays everyone wants a reflex sight on everything. I wouldn't want anything electronic on ''my'' gun. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:20, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::They probably don't want to be caught out by an EMP again. Seriously though, unless they are trying to keep a low profile by using indigenous weapons, special forces these days would likely have gadgets. Why would they penalise themselves by not giving themselves every possible advantage? To analogise to British SAS, when they are not trying to look like conventional forces, I have seen them using C8s with silencers, AN/PEQ-2s, flashlights, vertical grips, ACOGs, coupled magazines, P226 pistols with crimson trace grips and AN/PVS-21 goggles. I would imagine it vary much depends on the mission though, but I think I have only ever seen iron sights on a British C8 once, and that was on Salisbury plane. All of this is British rather than Delta force though, but I would imagine they would carry the same number of (if not more) gadgets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:29, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::That's what back-up iron sights (BIS) are for in addition to your optics. Most people have them in case their battery dies or the optics breaks...or in this case an EMP knocks them out. The D-boys should definitely not just be iron sighting it--[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 23:48, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::Indeed, where are the laser sights and tactical flashlights? SF firearms look so barebones without them :\
::::At least, vertical forward grips are on. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:18, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:The actual answer to this is a combination of resources (putting scopes on everyone's weapons would be more objects in the game world, this would be especially bad when they're chucking an infinite good guy respawn at an infinite bad guy respawn until the player kills some guys) and gameplay (players who see their teammates with cool-looking guns would hang back and wait for them to get killed so they can snag them). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:56, 23 November 2011 (CST)

== Two USPs ==

First, sorry for my bad english! In Tha name "USP.45 Tactical Suppressed", the "Tactical" part refers to the tacticl knife, NOT the USP Tactical.the normal "USP .45" in the game has a threaded barrel too. Look at the C-A-C icon of USP on codwiki if yu don't believe. The 2 USP sections shuold be merged to become 1. --Paul, bozitojugg3nut's brother

:Good point, though it should still be noted that there are two very different USP textures. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:17, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::No they shouldn't.

::[[Image:MW3-USP-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Standard USP. Slide wording "(front cocking serration) USP .45 Auto." Has no visible projecting barrel. This is a USP 45, and the model is more or less lifted straight from the previous game.]]

::[[Image:MW3-USPTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|USP Tactical model. Slide says "USP Tactical .45 Auto," barrel projects forward of the front of the slide. This is a USP Tactical.]]

::They are two distinct models, not just retextures of one. The confusion arises because the C-A-C image is of the Tactical version, even though it says it isn't (you'll notice the C-A-C icon on CoDwiki also has the Tactical model's underbarrel accessory, not the USP 45's, because it is not the USP 45 model), and because the Tactical version is just called USP 45 except the one time Burns uses it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:00, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::Does the regular USP also have no bullets in the magazine, whereas the Tactical does? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:33, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:53, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/ Because we suck. And HK hates us.] xD -- Long Fallen 04:44, 24 November 2011 (CST)

:I think my retarded brother is right this time:
:[[Image:MW3-0000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:And to respond to the upper image where the pistol is being reloaded on the ship or what that is: it HAS a visible projecting barrel (not on that image tho). I asked my bro to play the level where you run around in a gas mask in Paris. In better lighting conditions, the threaded barrel is perfectly visible on the 1st person model too.
:And for the last, the article says that the USP45 is ''using almost exactly the same model as the previous game''. ''EVERY'' USP in ''EVERY'' COD game has a threaded barrel. Now I am gone to kick Paul's ass for using my account and giving me a bad name (again). - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:18, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::You're forgetting that in-world and player-held models are not the same (and can sometimes be entirely seperate weapons as a result). Here's an angle-for-angle comparison of the player models:
::[[Image:MW3-Nottactical.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Standard USP. Slide wording "(front cocking serration) USP .45 Auto." Has ''very slightly'' visible projecting barrel (it isn't "perfectly" visible or really visible at all outside taking stills no matter what you do). This is a USP 45, and the model is more or less lifted straight from the previous game.]]
::[[Image:MW3-USPTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|USP Tactical model. Slide says "USP Tactical .45 Auto," has ''highly'' visible (and therefore longer) projecting barrel. This is a USP Tactical.]]
::As for being recycled, the USP model is. It also has the same LAM / light (the COD 4 model used a square Mark 23 style LAM, not this diagonal one), the same cocking serration replacing the HK logo, etc. The new one has a longer barrel and correctly calls itself a USP Tactical on the slide, while the original is just a malformed USP. The new model also has different sights (check the rear sight in particular), it's ''not'' just a straight-up retexture of the same model. They are therefore two different guns. The only retexture is Tactical Suppressed, which has an HK logo on the grip when the basic Tactical model doesn't.
::[[Image:Akimbo_usp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MW2 USPs. Note the same LAM as the MW3 version, same sights, HK logo replaced with a cocking serration, etc.]]
::Let me just break this down:
::*Someone decided they needed a new USP model.
::*They made a new USP model which has features correct for a Tactical, and slide engraving saying it's a Tactical.
::*They decided to use the old MW2 USP model as well for no good reason.
::*They decided to call both the USP 45, also for no good reason.
::Hence, there are two gun models, the old mutant USP and the new Tactical. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::My bad Tim, you're right. That's what I get for trying to ID guns at 2 in the morning :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:28, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-11-24T10:44:36Z

Long Fallen: /* Two USPs */

See [[Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

== KSG ==

Kinda surprised it never appears in singleplayer since it's supposed to be one of the "gimmick" guns for this game, has anyone seen one anywhere? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:07, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::Right now it's still in production. It was apparently a HUGE hit at the 2011 SHOT Show, however on the downside Kel-Tec is a pretty small manufacturer who happens to make pretty popular products, and that results in some pretty severe backlogging. I think they are planning on releasing it in early 2012 last I heard. The best part though is it's supposedly not going to be that expensive! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 18:14, 10 November 2011 (CST)

::: This gun is out now! It's going for between $650 and $800 depending on where you shop. I found 6 different places selling it by putting a simple search into Google. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

I think he meant in the game, but that's good news too!--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 16:22, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I did. And now I've got one, I get to discover they got literally ''everything'' about it wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:22, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Do tell :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:42, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::: LOL ooooooops! I haven't found the gun in single player, but I didn't do much searching either. But yea it's so messed up in the game (multiplayer). First, it's not a continuous fire shotgun. You get 7, then have to manually switch (not exactly sure how) to the other tube which holds another 7. Second, for being a 12 gauge, the damage is absurdly low. It took me an average of 3 torso hits to kill someone. Also, you would think they would give this shotgun to have slugs in one tube, and buckshot in the other! After all, that was the main idea behind the gun! Instant ammo switching or a lot of ammo in a compact package! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Way to ruin an awesome gun!!! --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 17:00, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::In Survival it's 12 rounds and it's just treated as a standard shotgun; no switching tube mags. It's more or less just a crappier version of the Striker with even less damage and slow pump rather than semi-auto. Everything I've read implies it's 12 in multi too, which as I said on the page would only be true if it were using 3" shells; since it damages like it's using 1 1/2" shells loaded with sand, I'm just writing that up as an error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:08, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== Mk 14 ==

on the pic Price's Mk 14 has a CTR stock so it is a Mod 1 --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:20, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Soap's M1911 ==
In the pic of his holster, that's not a 1911. Looks like an M9, by the grips and slide safety groove. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:03, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== reload animations ==

A lot of the reloads are still carried from the previous games but what baffles me is there are plenty of guns that have a cocking handle on the left side and even some are the same gun like the MG36 and the G36 but both cock the charging handle from different sides. I was hoping the ACR would changed, but nothing really changed. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)

== Beefed up gun sounds ==

I am really liking the beefed up gun shots in this game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:42, 10 November 2011 (CST)
::Lol... Everything but the ARs have good sounds, and everyone else's gunfire sounds great (ie. your standing next to them). Now I'll admit I'm only about 1/2 way through the ranking so I don't have all of the guns unlocked, so I don't know what some of the later guns sound like. I will say though, the Dragunov gunshot is incredible. I mean like 100% dead on. The L118 is the right sound, BUT NOT LOUD ENOUGH!!! That gunshot should be teeth rattling! The Barrett M107 is the same way; right but not loud enough! I just cope with it by cranking the volume when no one's home :D --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:36, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:::Actually, this was one of the things I really ''didn't'' like in this game, they all sound like they were made on a computer as opposed to being recorded. Think of the M200 in MW2, and a few others, they sound like, well, it's hard to describe, but something like metal hitting against metal? I dunno, but the Desert Eagle's sound in this is very bad compared to COD4 [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)

::::That's what I think the Assault Rifles and quite a few LMGs sound like. They finally fixed the pistols and sniper rifle's sounds, but totally messed up the others! What the heck? --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 14:50, 11 November 2011 (CST)

== Overall thoughts on the game ==
To be honest folks, this game turned out really good in the end. The gameplay doesn't feel as noobified like the last game was, the graphics, game engine and gameplay is more sharper and cleaner this time around as opposed to the glitches and bugs in second game, the multiplayer isn't so bland, the SpecOps feel more polished and fun, and the game's story explained a whole lot more stuff to the overall plot than Modern Warfare 2 did, and it left it on a more appropriate closure to the series. All in all, a good game. Maybe it's nothing groundbreaking in the "realism" factor (We'll leave that to Battlefield), but it still turned out to be a damn good game, and definitely worth the price. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:42, 11 November 2011 (CST)

::After watching the whole Singleplayer playthrough, and some MP stuff too, I agree. While (to me) it doesn't beat MW1, it sure is better than MW2 and BO. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:31, 11 November 2011 (CST)
:Modern Warfare 3 had the gameplay of Modern Warfare 2, but has more-balanced multiplayer content (though the multiplayer is obviously borrowed from Modern Warfare 2), gameplay, perks, satisfying story with clear parts (unlike Modern Warfare 2, which had a muddled plot), and like everyone said, realistic gun sounds. Even though it is not as successful or good as the older Call of Duty games and the other modern FPS games, it is overall the best video game set during modern times. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 20:33, 11 November 2011 (CST)

:::Well, it being the best modern shooter is your opinion, and I'm certainly not trying to say that it's ''wrong'', but for me MW1 and BF3 both take the that title. I agree with your summary though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:21, 11 November 2011 (CST)

== MP5K? ==

Is there actually an MP5K in the game, or is this just an MP5A2 that someone misidentified ages ago? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:32, 12 November 2011 (CST)

:No, that is actually an MP5K (you can see the name on the right is "MP5K holographic," and the hold is with the PC's thumb covering more of the rail, implying it's shorter), it was just cut from the final game. It's quite likely that when the dev console codes come out you'll be able to call it up in singleplayer with a "give" cheat. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:45, 12 November 2011 (CST)

::As we all know a lot of things in Call of Duty games are copy-pasted from previous ones, and since what we see of the K looks identical to the MW3 MP5, and we can see the reload animation is copy-pasted from the MW2 K, so I'm betting they copy-pasted the whole gun, changed the model, but didn't change the name til after that video. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:26, 12 November 2011 (CST)
:::This MP5K (if that is what it is, am still not 101% convinced) isn't the one from MW2 as has different rail system and a solid butt. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:40, 12 November 2011 (CST)

::::You misunderstood, the MW3 MP5K we're looking at, and the normal MP5 in MW3 look the same. The game files for the MP5K were brought over from MW2, and it was given a new model and name, but the name hadn't been changed yet as of the video. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:53, 12 November 2011 (CST)

:::::I don't think so, the one labelled as an MP5K looks shorter. Edit: Actually, looking at the Spec-Ops trailer and my own caps you might be right, it's the MW3 MP5 but he's holding it like it's an MP5K because it doesn't have new hand positions yet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:35, 12 November 2011 (CST)

== RSASS Secondary Sight on the Wrong Side ==

Has anybody else noticed that the red dot secondary sight is mounted in the wrong (left) side? If your holding the gun as a rightie, than it needs to be on the right side so that the hand holding the pistol grip just has to twist outwards. With it being on the left side, you have to twist your hand inwards to be able to look through the sight, and between a pistol grip in the gut, no stock surface on your shoulder, a magazine getting in the way of your support hand, and a 100% unnatural face angle, it ain't happening. But what else is new. Go figure. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:09, 13 November 2011 (CST)

:You'd think you'd just put it on the top or side of the scope, regardless. But the left hold kinda works if you're willing to stick your "wing" right out for it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:16, 13 November 2011 (CST)

::I noticed that too but I just figured they wanted the player to see it. Even though it's wrong, I think it's still cool that they tried it. reminds me of Jerry Miculek doing a 3 gun match.--[[User:Acepeacemaker|Acepeacemaker]] 20:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::That's probably it, and also probably the reason for some other subtle reasons such as the Pechang LMG feeding from the wrong side and so on. I personally know that if I couldn't see it in game, I probably would forget about it. They pretty much dropped realism for gameplay. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 20:25, 20 November 2011 (CST)

== Barrett ==

Price used an M82A1 in Pripyat as the M107 wasn't even developed 15 years before 2011. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:30, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:Oh, whoops. Although a weapon not being invented yet has historically never been a problem for this series, you know. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:43, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::CoughBlackOpsCough..... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:53, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:::OMFG, is that a suppressed RSASS between the two RPG's? In '96? - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:34, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::::See? SEE?! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:42, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:CoD... CoD... -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:02, 15 November 2011 (CST)

Also, the helicopter flying past is an Mi-28N (round ball above the rotor), which wasn't delivered until 2006. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:10, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:Exactly. I recently updated CoD4:MW's main page about that issue. But something else I would like to know if in anyway, is it matter if Price used the M82A1 rather than the L96, even though the British Army does using the M82A1? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:24, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::The range involved, you'd be pushing things with just a 7.62. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]]

:::Ah, okay. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:42, 15 November 2011 (CST)

::::Back then a Barrett M82A1 would be the correct weapon for an SAS sniper at long range. Although the M82A1 is still in the British army inventory, The AW50F tends to be favoured nowadays by both special forces and regulars (mainly EOD and anti material), so this weapon choice is chronologically correct although I think this is purely by accident. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:10, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Sigh, RSASSs... At least the weapons in the two flashback missions were close to being right, at most a couple years too early, but these? Really? Of all the guns they could have picked for that scene :P [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 15 November 2011 (CST)

:To give Blops one point, the framing device does add some scope for ridiculous weapons (the action is being recounted by a man who's half dead, dosed up to the eyeballs on drugs and being tortured), though that in turn raises the question of why the interrogator is apparently letting him describe exactly how he shot every single person. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:02, 18 November 2011 (CST)

==EOTech XPS Logo==
There's nothing ridiculous about it, it actually ''is'' that big. [http://webyshops.com/ns/images/EOTech/EOTech-EXPS2-2-Holographic-Sight-2-dot-Ballistic-Reticle-with-3X-Magnifier-and-FTS-Mount-Flipped-View-MPO-III-Pic1.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:59, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Actually, there's still something ridiculous about that. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:12, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::How come? It's the same one. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 05:33, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Because it's ridiculous in real life too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Minigun ==

Are we sure it's Dillon Aero rather than Garwood Industries' [http://www.garwoodindustries.com/proddetail.php?prod=M-134G M-134G]? I can't find a Dillon with that top-mounted RIS rail, but Garwood's one has it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:44, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:If you go onto YouTube, you can find people shooting Dillon Aero miniguns with rails. It's more of an aftermarket thing, but they are out there. I'm also not sure why you wouldn't be able to find a photo, as 95% of handheld military arms have rails on them. Since the adoption of the M16A3/A4, rails have become pretty much standard on everything that might remotely need a sight. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:45, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::Yeah, I meant I couldn't find a base model on their site with rails. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:06, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::Oh well you likely won't find one then. What is likely though, is the gun is probably drilled and tapped for the rail and shipped with filler screws, so that whoever receives the gun can add a rail if they want to. It's a pretty common practice on a lot of rifles. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:23, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::I wouldn't worry too much about the rail, as it is mounted in the wrong place anyway. Any sight rail I have seen on a minigun has been mounted to the yoke rather than to the gun body itself. Regardless, from the slotted flash suppressor the closest match is a GAU-17/A, which incidentally also has a sight rail. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:47, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::[[File:GAU-17A HH60.jpg|thumb|400px|none|GAU-17/A mounted on an HH-60H Seahawk - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
::::Looking at the screencaps again, just noticed that although it has the barrel assembly of a GAU-17/A it has dome Dillon parts, including the spade grips, the gun drive motor and gun control unit. Also, when you fire the gun, does the character press down with his thumbs, because this is what it looks like in the screenshot. If so, I think that this is incorrect as the fire buttons are on the GCU and the buttons on top of the spade grips can be optionally wired up to activate things like lasers or illuminators, or to deploy flares and chaff. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:16, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Yes. He rests his thumbs together in the middle when not firing, that's "firing" even though you can't see a muzzle flash in that shot. But looking at Dillon's site, the wording implies that those switches can be used for other functions ''or'' as triggers, so it might not be wrong, just weird. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:37, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::The trigger on these things can be a number of different options. I've seen a butterfly trigger with 2 toggle switches (one for power, the other for rate of fire) and I have seen ones with a power toggle switch and two button triggers, both firing the the weapon but each at different rates of fire. These guns are built to order, so all that's shown on the website is a base model. Extra features can be had when someone orders it.

::::::The rail is next to useless anyway though, because the gun is intended to be walked onto target. You start firing in the general direction, then move the gun onto target by watching the tracers (every 4th or 5th round). This makes red dot sights and most lasers pretty much worthless.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 10:58, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Well, the rail's always empty in CoD, so they might have actually got something right there. It's just there under the Black theory that adding a RIS rail makes any gun 30% better (the average gun in Black is thus roughly 270% better). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::::LOL In the shooting community here, rails are super popular among people, but they add weight onto guns REALLY fast. Taking an AR-15 and switching out a normal handguard to a quad rail immediately adds on 8-20 ounces of weight (depending on rail length). Factor in grips, lights, and lasers, it gets heavy way too fast!--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:08, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:::::::::And of course the 37mm flare launcher that you tell everyone is an M203, that's a vital part of every ridiculous range toy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::::::::::Pah those things are really cool but ridiculously heavy. They are quite a bit of fun at night though!--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:30, 16 November 2011 (CST)
I don't think those top thumb switches can be configured to fire the gun, as don't think there is an "input" into the GCU other than the main power supply. There is one plug I'm not 100% sure about, but when looking at pictures if it is attached it always goes away from the gun, possibly it is the power supply to the ammo booster if fitted but don't know. As for the rail thing, the one time a sight is handy is if you want to fire a warning shot across something, as would be a bit embarrassing to start firing and mince the target accidentally because you judged it slightly wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:37, 16 November 2011 (CST)
:Ok 1st, I don't think anyone on earth would fire a warning shot with a minigun. That just seems stupid beyond belief. Another reason a sight is worthless is because it doesn't take into account windage, lead, and bullet drop, especially if moving. These are all things you have to eyeball in order to make a hit.
:As for those switches, they can. It's all about how the manufacturer sends the gun out and simple electronics. Just like I could wire up all the lights in the house to be turned on with a timer or from my car, but there's just no reason to do so. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:58, 16 November 2011 (CST)
::I am only talking about the Dillon M134D, how other manufacturer set up their fire control group is up to them, but the spade grips here are for a Dillon. The GCU has 1 input and 2 or 3 outputs. Input is main power to the gun, first two outputs are for the motor and the clutch, and the third, if connected, goes away from the gun, my guess to the ammunition booster but not 100%.
::Warning shot from a minigun is not stupid, I have done it a couple of times to discourage fast boats getting a bit too close to where they shouldn't be, and it works pretty damn well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:07, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Fun fact ==

This screenshot

[[Image:MW3-Magnum-1.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Is actually ''impossible'' to get using Steam's screenshot feature, since it won't take shots during that part of the intro (loading, I guess). In the end I had to use FRAPS. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:25, 16 November 2011 (CST)

== Glock 18C/Glock 17 hybrid? ==

I couldn't find a good picture to verify currectly, but even so the developers remembered to add a fire selector switch this time, let's not forget that the really really actual Glock 18C has compensator cuts on both the slider and barrel, in order to reduce the recoil (if I'm not mistaken).

[[Image:MW3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Undeterred by this, he's soon using his Glock to blow a Russian patrol boat in half. One-handed, no less.]]

If you open the picture above in a new tab, zoom in and look closely on the slider, there are no compensator cuts. Could this be, still, the same covereted-full-auto-fire Glock 17 model from ''[[Modern Warfare 2]]'', only with a fire selector switch? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 07:41, 17 November 2011 (CST)
:It is a Glock 18 not the 18C. Whoever wrote the "C" was wrong. Real G18C can be seen in [[GRAW]] for example. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 08:22, 17 November 2011 (CST)
:: +1 for the normal Glock 18. The C stands for compensator, and since it doesn't have one, It won't be a Glock 18C, just a normal Glock 18.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:00, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::Okay, guys, thanks for answering that :) --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 09:58, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Just noticed, they have put the fire selector on backwards. WTF is wrong with these people, it takes conscious effort to make some of these mistakes. It's like they just mess with stuff for the hell of it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:09, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:It's a little hard to tell, but it looks like it's on correctly. But as a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if they read these entries and switch stuff last minute just to mess with us lol...
:A side note that I noticed: The Glock 18 has way to little recoil for being uncompensated. The compensator removes about 1/2 the muzzle climb, however for being uncompensated and full auto, it really doesn't seem to have that much recoil.--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 11:29, 17 November 2011 (CST)
::In the above image you can see the "pointer" on the fire selector, which is pointing backwards (If you zoom in you can see part of the circle of the selector above the straight "pointer" part which you wouldn't see if it was pointing forwards correctly). On a real Glock 18 the two positions are both forwards (up for semi down for auto). An easier way to see that it is wrong is in the create a class menu:
::[[File:Weapon g18 large.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
::The serrations are in the wrong place due to this, and the selector is too far back as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:06, 17 November 2011 (CST)
Gotchya. I wasn't sure if in the photo it was the pointer or a shadow, but I see it now. Go figure...--[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 17:28, 17 November 2011 (CST)

::Also the magazine is shorter than an actual 31/33 round magazine, but it's still too long for a 20 rounder, 19-round mags (17-round Glock mag with a +2 base plate) are flush fitting. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:21, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== HD Screenshots from the MW3 Commercial ==

Here's some screenshots from the MW3 Commercial starring [[Sam Worthington]] and [[Jonah Hill]]:
[[File:MW3Com 01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:MW3Com 03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[File:MW3Com 05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
^That one makes me laugh my ass off every time I look at it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:41, 22 November 2011 (CST)
[[File:MW3Com 12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The n00b now shows off the skills he's learned from The Vet.]]

It might be a good idea to give this its own subheading (or even sub-page, there's a lot of weapons in the trailer). Usually we cover guns that appear in trailers and previews, but it's rather unique for a game trailer to have so many real weapons in it, and it'd look weird shoehorning shots from this trailer into the main page's gun entries. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:28, 18 November 2011 (CST)
:Here's some more screenshots from the same commercial. Note that I accidentally uploaded an existing screenshot. The following weapons appear in the commercial: FN SCAR-L, Czech Skorpions, RPG-7, M67 grenade, Barret M82, 9-Bang, M4A1 Carbine, M1911 and its modern variants, AKMS, Remington RSASS, M60E4, M16A2, and the M203 launcher. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 21:56, 18 November 2011 (CST)
::Actually, that "SCAR-L" is an ACR. :\ BTW, I just love this commercial for some reason. =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Seeing Sam Worthington in it just feels weird, since he's the star of BO. Do you think it was a dig at Treyarch? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:57, 22 November 2011 (CST)
::::Well, the rules on IMFDB state that commercials are not allowed to have their own pages. But maybe these screenshots can have their own section on the bottom of the Modern Warfare 3 main page as a "trivia special"? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 01:58, 23 November 2011 (CST)
:::::The thing is while commercials are not allowed, ''trailers'' usually are allowed on the main page. I think in this very unusual case this trailer has enough guns to warrant a page of it's own. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:52, 23 November 2011 (CST)
[[Image:MW3Noob-01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-02.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-03.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-04.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-05.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-06.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-07.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-09.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-11.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-13.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MW3Noob-16.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== I can't be the only one ==

[[image:CODBO-TDIVector.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Whenever I look at this image I feel an urgent need to photoshop Bill and Ted in either side of him and add the caption "EXCELLENT!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:34, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Lolz. X) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:23, 19 November 2011 (CST)
Hahaha!! :D Nice one!! - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:44, 20 November 2011 (CST)

== Colt License ==
Did Colt have a licensing agreement with MW3, as well because if you look at the charging handle of the CM901, it has the Colt logo printed on it. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 09:49, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:I've got an image of the thanks section from the credits which includes everyone who advertised, I'll post it up when I get home. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::Cool, thanks man. [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

[[Image:MW3-Thanksto-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

"Colt Defense LLC." Oddities include thanking "Desert Eagle" ''and'' Magnum Research, Barrett ''and'' Barrett Rifles, and that they got help from Degroat, a company that refurbishes miniguns; I guess explaining why they're GAU-17/As with Dillon bits. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:31, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:I find it amazing that the developers actually included '''Bobby Kotick''' in the special thanks section. -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::"Thanks for not firing us yet!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:01, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Kevin Smith? The director? [[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:43, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== M4A1 20 round magazine ==

I find it funny that they model 30 round magazines on the M16A4, but model 20 round mags on the M4A1 with a 30 round capacity, judging by this picture below, they look like straight 30 round mags instead of curved.
[[Image:MW3-M4-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Master Sergeant "Sandman" prepares to throw a magazine to Westbrook at the very start of the game.]]
--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]
:I don't think straight 30 round STANAG magazines exist. However, there were straight 25 round magazine in the early days of the M16 that are about this length, but they are rare as hens' teeth these days and would doubt that is what the developers intended. Think it is more likely that they just modelled it wrong deliberately or accidentally. They probably liked the aesthetic of a straight magazine, but a corect length 20 round would have looked conspicuously short compared to the other rifles in the game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:10, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm more inclined to say it's an oversized straight magazine than a rare one (it could also be an M4 adapted to use FAMAS F1 mags, if we're being silly). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:19, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::There ''are'' 30 round straight STANAG magazines out there, however they are extremely rare and also unreliable because the follower tends to hang up with the magazine frame. I have seen '''maybe''' 3 of them in my 16 years of working with guns, including on the internet. The mags in the picture however are too short to be them, and they are most certainly 20 rounders. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 07:59, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::If you compare them to the pistol grip they're ''slightly'' too long to be 20 rounders, too, they're sorta halfway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:04, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Well that's kinda because the grip is at the wrong angle too... lol Go to my page and look at the AR-15 I have up and you'll see that the grip here is angled too far backwards, which may be part of the problem... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 08:15, 22 November 2011 (CST)
::::::Do you have any links to pics of 30 round straight magazines, as have never seen one. I thought the 30 round magazine were always curved, but the original ones had a shallower, constant curve rather than the subsequent ones which are straight inside the magazine well, with a more sever curve underneath. Regardless of the grip angle, the 20 round magazine is too long:
::::::[[File:COD MW3 M4A1 class.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
::::::compare to this:
::::::[[File:ColtAR-15A3TacticalCarbine.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
::::::It also lacks the M4 profile barrel, and that flash hider is ridiculous, almost looks like a non-gun. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:07, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Ok here is a prototype that I have had on my files for a while.

[[File:30 round straight AR mag.jpg|300px]]

It lacks the cutout for the normal mag catch because it was designed for another gun (can't remember exactly what). Those 30 round straight mags may very well be converted magazines for other mags done before AR mags were widely available. Also, the grip angle looked worse in the in-game photo than the game picture of the gun. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:27, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:Ok upon doing further research here that magazine is actually a FAL magazine. Oops! I can't find any pictures on Gunbroker because once they archive their auctions you can't go back and get the pictures. Grrr... Sorry to let you down guys. Some research I found though was that the curve was given because of reliability issues found back with the original M16, therefore any 30 round straight magazines are going to be collector items and very rare. Just interesting... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::The grip is probably at least in part due to perspective. The picture Commando posted does look to be a static render of the same in-world gun model that Sandman is carrying, it's just that one's tilted towards us while the one in my pic is tilted away. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:39, 22 November 2011 (CST)

Did anyone notice the gas piston block on top of the receiver? Look at the rear sight, then look forward a millimeter. It's obviously not a removable riser which leads me to the conclusion that it must have been modeled after an M4 with a gas piston operated upper receiver. Hmmm... --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 09:48, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:It's fairly well documented that their primary references are usually Airsoft guns, so it could be anything. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:53, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I don't think it is based on a piston gun. The raised flat top looks more like it is due to a riser as it looks very "bitty" and slapped on top (looks a bit like the back end of whatever you call those rail systems that clamp onto the flat-top, SIR?). Also, it has a regular handguard slip ring, which I don't think you could have as it wouldn't leave enough room for the piston. The handguard itself is pretty screwed up as well, with 5 large cooling holes along the top, but 7 smaller ones along the bottom, the rail along the bottom is totally flat, and along the side isn't a rail at all, but rather a series of hollow loops much further apart than the ridges on a rail. It looks like a complete frankengun monstrosity. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:14, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I agree, the riser looks like the rear part of MW2's RIS. And this RIS is the single worst RIS I have EVER seen, in so many ways. Also, it's funny you'd use a picture of an AR-15A3, as that's the "M4A1" in COD4 :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:24, 22 November 2011 (CST)

== Delta Force Weapons ==

Anyone else annoyed at the weapons used by the AI Delta Force members? Besides the issue of the 20 RD mags on the M4s, Delta is one of the most advanced spec ops teams in the world and better funded than most units within the military, but none of the AI's guns have any sort of attachment besides M203s. You'd think that if by now basic infantry in real life has optics on their guns, then an elite team like Delta would have ACOG's or Eotechs on all of their guns in a game set in 2016.--[[User:James Woods|James Woods]] 16:27, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:And Desert Eagles... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:28, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::Also seen in the hands of other SF Units and Russian [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigBad Big Bads] [http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_Eagle through the series]... It's like, seriously! D:< --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:18, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:I just was researching Delta Force. I saw alot of pictures were operators had just a normal iron sighted M4 with an M203. Literally, only two of the multiple pictures i saw, they had no optics other than an m203.--[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

::As they should. I would, there's nothing wrong with ironsights, it's just nowadays everyone wants a reflex sight on everything. I wouldn't want anything electronic on ''my'' gun. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:20, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:::They probably don't want to be caught out by an EMP again. Seriously though, unless they are trying to keep a low profile by using indigenous weapons, special forces these days would likely have gadgets. Why would they penalise themselves by not giving themselves every possible advantage? To analogise to British SAS, when they are not trying to look like conventional forces, I have seen them using C8s with silencers, AN/PEQ-2s, flashlights, vertical grips, ACOGs, coupled magazines, P226 pistols with crimson trace grips and AN/PVS-21 goggles. I would imagine it vary much depends on the mission though, but I think I have only ever seen iron sights on a British C8 once, and that was on Salisbury plane. All of this is British rather than Delta force though, but I would imagine they would carry the same number of (if not more) gadgets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:29, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::That's what back-up iron sights (BIS) are for in addition to your optics. Most people have them in case their battery dies or the optics breaks...or in this case an EMP knocks them out. The D-boys should definitely not just be iron sighting it--[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 23:48, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::::Indeed, where are the laser sights and tactical flashlights? SF firearms look so barebones without them :\
::::At least, vertical forward grips are on. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:18, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:The actual answer to this is a combination of resources (putting scopes on everyone's weapons would be more objects in the game world, this would be especially bad when they're chucking an infinite good guy respawn at an infinite bad guy respawn until the player kills some guys) and gameplay (players who see their teammates with cool-looking guns would hang back and wait for them to get killed so they can snag them). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:56, 23 November 2011 (CST)

== Two USPs ==

First, sorry for my bad english! In Tha name "USP.45 Tactical Suppressed", the "Tactical" part refers to the tacticl knife, NOT the USP Tactical.the normal "USP .45" in the game has a threaded barrel too. Look at the C-A-C icon of USP on codwiki if yu don't believe. The 2 USP sections shuold be merged to become 1. --Paul, bozitojugg3nut's brother

:Good point, though it should still be noted that there are two very different USP textures. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:17, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::No they shouldn't.

::[[Image:MW3-USP-4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Standard USP. Slide wording "(front cocking serration) USP .45 Auto." Has no visible projecting barrel. This is a USP 45, and the model is more or less lifted straight from the previous game.]]

::[[Image:MW3-USPTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|USP Tactical model. Slide says "USP Tactical .45 Auto," barrel projects forward of the front of the slide. This is a USP Tactical.]]

::They are two distinct models, not just retextures of one. The confusion arises because the C-A-C image is of the Tactical version, even though it says it isn't (you'll notice the C-A-C icon on CoDwiki also has the Tactical model's underbarrel accessory, not the USP 45's, because it is not the USP 45 model), and because the Tactical version is just called USP 45 except the one time Burns uses it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:00, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::Does the regular USP also have no bullets in the magazine, whereas the Tactical does? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:33, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:53, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::::Because we suck. And HK hates us. xD -- Long Fallen 04:44, 24 November 2011 (CST)

:I think my retarded brother is right this time:
:[[Image:MW3-0000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|]]
:And to respond to the upper image where the pistol is being reloaded on the ship or what that is: it HAS a visible projecting barrel (not on that image tho). I asked my bro to play the level where you run around in a gas mask in Paris. In better lighting conditions, the threaded barrel is perfectly visible on the 1st person model too.
:And for the last, the article says that the USP45 is ''using almost exactly the same model as the previous game''. ''EVERY'' USP in ''EVERY'' COD game has a threaded barrel. Now I am gone to kick Paul's ass for using my account and giving me a bad name (again). - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 10:18, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::You're forgetting that in-world and player-held models are not the same (and can sometimes be entirely seperate weapons as a result). Here's an angle-for-angle comparison of the player models:
::[[Image:MW3-Nottactical.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Standard USP. Slide wording "(front cocking serration) USP .45 Auto." Has ''very slightly'' visible projecting barrel (it isn't "perfectly" visible or really visible at all outside taking stills no matter what you do). This is a USP 45, and the model is more or less lifted straight from the previous game.]]
::[[Image:MW3-USPTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|USP Tactical model. Slide says "USP Tactical .45 Auto," has ''highly'' visible (and therefore longer) projecting barrel. This is a USP Tactical.]]
::As for being recycled, the USP model is. It also has the same LAM / light (the COD 4 model used a square Mark 23 style LAM, not this diagonal one), the same cocking serration replacing the HK logo, etc. The new one has a longer barrel and correctly calls itself a USP Tactical on the slide, while the original is just a malformed USP. The new model also has different sights (check the rear sight in particular), it's ''not'' just a straight-up retexture of the same model. They are therefore two different guns. The only retexture is Tactical Suppressed, which has an HK logo on the grip when the basic Tactical model doesn't.
::[[Image:Akimbo_usp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MW2 USPs. Note the same LAM as the MW3 version, same sights, HK logo replaced with a cocking serration, etc.]]
::Let me just break this down:
::*Someone decided they needed a new USP model.
::*They made a new USP model which has features correct for a Tactical, and slide engraving saying it's a Tactical.
::*They decided to use the old MW2 USP model as well for no good reason.
::*They decided to call both the USP 45, also for no good reason.
::Hence, there are two gun models, the old mutant USP and the new Tactical. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::My bad Tim, you're right. That's what I get for trying to ID guns at 2 in the morning :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:28, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Talk:Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker

2011-11-24T06:04:58Z

Long Fallen: /* MGS:HD Update? */ new section

'''''Stealth Gun''''' 
Fire this at your co-op partner to render them undetectable by enemies.
[[Image:Snap044.jpg|frame|none]]

'''''Rail Gun''''' 
Similar to one used by fortune in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty]]'' and Old Snake in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns Of The Patriots]]''. Unlike its more modern counterparts, this Rail Gun is much more primitive, to the point where a teammate is required to manually charge the gun's capacitors to maximize its firepower.
[[Image:Snap045.jpg|frame|none]]

'''''Electromagnetic Wave gun''''' 
A weapon that utilizes Electromagnetic waves. Similar to the Proton Packs in [[Ghostbusters]], connecting the two EM waves and pressing at the moment they connect will generate an explosion.

----

__TOC__ 

This page needs some spell checking, badly!
:Fixed for spelling and grammar. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]]
::I just arranged the weapons according to type and did some spell checking. Hope I got it all right. --[[Special:Contributions/85.3.156.148|85.3.156.148]] 15:52, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
got the Japanese version
weapons and it's variation spotted so far
:Mk22(different kind of silencers)
:Makarov PM
:M1911A1(silencer)
:unknown Double Barreled Shotgun(sawed off)
:Ithaca 37(sawed-off/extended magazine tube/silencer/riot)
:M16A1(silencer)
:AK47(GP-25)
:AMD-65
:FN FAL(21"barrel/18"barrel/folding stock/laser sight)
:M10(silencer)
:M1928A1(foregrip/drum mag)
:M1-C
:Mosin Nagant(folding skeleton stock/pistol grip)
:M60(different kind of drum mag)
:Stoner M63(different kind of drum mag)
:PKM(different kind of drum mag)
:MG3
:LAW-80 in OD/tan/black color
:RPG2
:RPG7
:FIM-92A

== Cleaned up the mess ==
Tidied up and removed old information (most of them were based on demo version). Somebody should add more text 'cause I'm not good at typing stuff.
--[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 05:34, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

:thatsgood work and all and ive added some words will do a more in depth one soon but you deleted the XM177E2 pictures --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:23, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

There wasn't any pics of XM177E2 in the first place... I'm not even sure if that gun exists in this game. I've played this for over 40 hours and haven't seen one. --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 06:35, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
there definatly is, ive got it, it looks similar to the M4 but has a telescopic stock and sometimes has a m203 and suppressor --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:05, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
sorry, your right i mistook the other rifle for it, yeah its not on the game i'll delete it --[[User:Smish34|Smish34]] 17:06, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

== M16 ==

The description says that the M16 comes with a 30 round clip. I'm not going to post the whole rant about how it's not called a clip here, but I'm going to fix that obvious discrepancy. Hopefully whoever wrote that part just had a minor slip up. [[User:Acora|Acora]] 08:22, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Good, less rant, just make the correction. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:50, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Do you want a medal and bucket full of cookies too? --[[User:SilentwarriorX|SilentwarriorX]] 16:03, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

:Yes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:02, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

== New screenies needed ==

I suggest someone try pulling some of the weapon screenshots from the US version. I would try it but I can't seem to get RemoteJoy working on my CFW'd PSP. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 17:19, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Pics are fine, but japanese letters are kinda on way, why whoever took those left them on when there's an option to remove them?

== Shotgun attachment ==
Can anyone identify the shotgun attachment for the M16 and 653? My bet is either the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 but I can't tell the difference from the model viewer.
:I think it's a 870[[User:Sate2801|Sate2801]] 06:51, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
::It's a shortened Ithaca 37. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:08, 23 May 2011 (CDT)

== M18 smoke grenade ==

That's not an M18; whatever it is, it's the same as the flashbang / chaff model from MGS4 that I've got down as "unknown stun grenade." I think it's actually something like an airsoft "distraction device" grenade, such as this: http://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/gbtech-td-distraction-device--gas-charger- . [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:26, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:I know I saw a picture of an M18 that looked very similar to what was shown in-game. It was either on Google images or Bing images. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] 16:54, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== Anachronisms ==

I think we really need to clean up on the Anachronisms a bit. Yes, the game does technically take place in 1974, but there were some hints that the game does indeed have time passing. For starters, Miller references Sir Eric Gairy, the Prime Minister of Grenada, requesting for the UN to set up a facility to study extraterrestrial occurances thanks to Chico. The only time something like that happened was in 1977 (and trust me, I checked). Besides, several of the weapons were developed using design specs, which are implied to be blueprints of the weapons in question, so it was likely that they just developed them earlier than usual. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] 17:12, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

== MGS:HD Update? ==

So with the release of the MGS:HD Collestion, will the current page be refinished to include the 720p resolution screenshots and english descriptions, or will it more than likely just stay the way it is now?

Could go either way, but just out of curiosity. The current pictures have quite a bit of aliasing xD -- Long Fallen 00:04, 24 November 2011 (CST)

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-24T03:05:05Z

Long Fallen: /* M203 Dog tag */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-23T23:59:13Z

Long Fallen: /* M203 Dog tag */

USAS-12

2011-11-22T04:29:12Z

Long Fallen: /* Video Games */

[[Image:USAS12.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Daewoo USAS-12 with 10-round magazine - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:Usas-12.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Daewoo USAS-12 with 20-round drum - 12 Gauge]]

The Daewoo USAS-12 is based on Maxwell Atchisson's 1972 design of the [[AA-12]] assault shotgun.
In 1989, Gilbert Equipment Co.(USA) wanted to produce an Atchisson of its own. Since Gilbert had no manufacturing capabilities, it looked elsewhere for possible manufacturers. The only maker that agreed to produce the weapon was a South Korean company called Daewoo Precision Industries, part of the Daewoo conglomerate. They adapted the design to their manufacturing techniques, and mass production commenced in the early 1990s and continues to this day.

The USAS-12 in semi automatic form was available through regular chains of commerce until 1993, when then President Bill Clinton, at the behest of a gun control group (Handgun Control, Inc.), directed then Secretary of the Treasury Lloyd Bentsen to declare three specific self loading shotguns to be destructive devices under an obscure portion of the Federal Code, which allowed the Head of the Treasury Dept. to declare any weapon over .50 Caliber to be declared a destructive device by decree. The three banned shotguns were (a) the SWD/Cobray Streetsweeper, the (b) the Armsel Striker-12 shotgun and the (c) Semi automatic USAS-12. The gun control group also requested that the pump action Mossberg 500 also be banned (due to the "frightening design" of the Mossberg 500 bullpup) but Bentsen refused. It is ironic that the '''full auto''' USAS-12 shotguns were still available to Title II approved owners and dealers with no additional paperwork required, but the '''Semi automatic''' version required a 'Destructive Device' permit from the ATF to possess and transfer. Once a shotgun like the USAS-12 was 'legally a Destructive Device' the ATF restricted import of complete guns and replacement parts based on regulations from the Gun Control Act of 1968.

==Specifications==

'''Type:''' Shotgun

'''Caliber:''' 12 gauge

'''Capacity:''' 10-round or 12-round box magazine, 20-round or 35-round drum magazine

'''Fire Modes:''' Safe/Semi/FullAuto (Select Fire LE) Safe/Semi (Civilian Version Until the Clinton Administration, then changed to a Restricted Device LE/Military Only)

==Films==

* Used by Forrest Taft ([[Steven Seagal]]) in ''[[On Deadly Ground]]''

* A U.S. Marshall in ''[[Eraser]]''

* Van Pelt's modern day replacement weapon in ''[[Jumanji]]'' (masquerading as a monstrous hunting rifle, fitted with Scope and Suppressor)

* Used by Jeff Douglas ([[Robert Patrick]]) in ''[[Zero Tolerance]]''

* Osiris Amanpour ([[Tom Savini]]) in ''[[Machete]]''

==Television==

* USAF and SGC Personnel in ''[[Stargate: SG1]]''

* Atlantis personnel in ''[[Stargate: Atlantis]]''

* Used by Wings Hauser as Lt. Col. Matthew Alan "Trane" Coltrane in ''[[Lightning Force]]''

== Video Games ==

* ''[[The Punisher (VG)]]''

* ''[[Red Steel]]''

* ''[[Saints Row 2]]''

* ''[[Battlefield: Bad Company]]''

* ''[[Battlefield: Bad Company 2]]''

* ''[[Far Cry 2]]'' (with a 12-round drum)

* ''[[Counter-Strike Online]]'' (without iron sights, and there's a new mod called Camouflage USAS12)

* ''[[Soldier of Fortune II: Double Helix]]''

* ''[[Syphon Filter: Dark Mirror]]''

* ''[[Global Operations]]''

* ''[[Rainbow Six: Vegas]]'' (cut weapon)

* ''[[Rainbow Six: Vegas 2]]'' (Unusable)

* ''[[Rainbow Six 3]]''

* ''[[Army of Two: The 40th Day]]''

* ''[[Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light]]''

* ''[[Modern Warfare 3]]''

* ''[[Battlefield 3]]''

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Shotgun]]

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-22T02:25:56Z

Long Fallen: /* Kaffarov's Private Army */

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-11-22T02:25:24Z

Long Fallen: /* Colt License */

Talk:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

2011-11-21T06:47:32Z

Long Fallen: /* Colt License */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-21T06:44:38Z

Long Fallen: /* Kaffarov's Private Army */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-21T06:42:38Z

Long Fallen: /* Kaffarov's Private Army */

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-20T00:03:50Z

Long Fallen: /* Kaffarov's Private Army */ new section

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-18T23:21:26Z

Long Fallen:

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-18T23:20:55Z

Long Fallen:

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-16T23:54:11Z

Long Fallen:

Talk:Battlefield 3

2011-11-16T23:49:33Z

Long Fallen: