Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games - User contributions [en]

Talk:Battlefield 4

2013-10-05T16:21:06Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Cocking the RPG-7's hammer? */

== Leaks ==

http://www.overclock.net/t/1375494/neogaf-leaked-bf4-screens
Looks like M249E3 and M4(?) with MoH:WF influence.
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

== 17-minute gameplay ==

The first 17 minutes of gameplay have been released now. I've added myself some guns in the page and if someone thinks some guns are wrong, feel free to change it since I'm still a novice when it comes to identify guns in games. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 10:26, 27 March 2013 (EDT)
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HVQXkeU8U

== Shorty shotgun ==

The shorty shotgun could also be the same breacher-configured 870 MCS from ''Warfighter''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:03, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

== M249E3 Para SAW / Mk 46 Mod 0 Hybrid ==

Do you guys think that the machine gun Irish is carrying it's actually a hybrid between a M249E3 Para SAW and a Mk 46 Mod 0? I've watched the gameplay video a couple times and I can't really see it the machine gun has a STANAG well under the belt to see that is a cross between the two weapons. For the time being I just added the machine gun to the page as an Mk 46 Mod 0, although I'm not sure if you can change its fixed stock for a collapsible and still call it an Mk 46 Mod 0. Here is a picture to take a look that I took from the Battlefield 4 site. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 09:17, 29 March 2013 (EDT) 
[[File:bf4 m249.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:It has a conventional M249 barrel and carry handle, both things lacked by the MK46. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 12:13, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::The Mod 1 variant restores the carry handle and barrels are interchangeable. The only telling features that distinguish an M249 from a Mk 46 are the magazine well (which we can't determine since no images of the left side of the gun are provided) and the vehicle mounting lug, which the in-game gun noticeably lacks. This could very well be a true Mk 46, for once. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:13, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

:Also on the picture above Pac has an M4A1, it's seen in the gamplay trailer too. --[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 03:29, 4 April 2013 (EDT)

== Vehicle Mounted HMG ==

At 6.58 in the gameplay video, when Record engages the buggy with the Serbu Super Shorty, you see the HMG mounted above it. Is it a Dushka?
I'm rubbish with the whole screen-shot thing so I won't attempt that. It has just been bothering me. Thanks. --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] ([[User talk:Ritch|talk]]) 05:47, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

It's most likely a Kord HMG, just guessing from Russian vehicle armorments in previous games.--[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fan]] ([[User talk:AK-74Fan|talk]]) 12:01, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

Ahh right thanks! I have to admit, I am absolute rubbish at ID-ing HMG's. --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] ([[User talk:Ritch|talk]]) 10:52, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

== Have they learned their lessons from Battlefield 3? ==

Looking over the BF3 discussion page, I'm driven to wonder if DICE has learned their lessons from BF3's lifetime and are going to make this game better (at least with respect to emulating real-life firearms). I'd like to think they will--this website's popularity is rising, so more people are aware of DICE's shortcomings when it comes to realistic firearms than before. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 14:24, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

This could be because I'm SP-centric (and BF3 has been shelved since ''Warfighter'' came out), but the only weapon-related "shortcoming" I felt BF3 had was the use of M240Bs and so-called "M16A3s" (which I still have yet to see convincing proof is a flat top receiver when all the ''official'' sources say it's the same thing it was when first adopted--a fixed carry handle A2 upper) by the Marines. MP probably has more I'm either unaware of or have forgotten, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:04, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

:This is a pic of an M16A3 built under license by FN, I imagine that one could just slap an A4 upper on it and you have a flattop AR: [http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/untitled5cb1.jpg M16A3] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 11:08, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

::I've seen that one before. Changing a major component like that makes it ''not'' an M16A3 because it doesn't adhere to the military's A3 specification, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:33, 3 April 2013 (EDT)

:Gonna have to agree. DICE have been very accurate with weapon characteristics in BF3, give or take a few things. In comparison to other FPS, BF3 already stood head and shoulders above. Fire selectors and bolt releases were missing, along with certain Only Warfighter has had the hyper-realism I've always been looking for (except for AK variants, but I don't mind >.>), and I'm sure DICE will bring at least some of that back into BF4. --[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 20:45, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

== More weapons shown ==

Some new pics show the weapon loadout screens but they're watermarked to hell and back.

http://i.imgur.com/Ef1eymph.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m6NUETrh.jpg

CZ-805

Beretta M9

Scorpion EVO A3

Magpul PDR-C

QBZ-95

Type 88 LMG

QSZ-92

SV-98

QBU-88

Scout Elite

Ultimax 100 Mk5
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:00, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

The Czechnology seems to be getting around.But oh great, 4 classes...again. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:24, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

:I don't know about you, but I think it would be hard to snipe with no arms. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 21:59, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

The Ak5c and the Saiga can be added to the page right now. They are seen in the new "Angry Sea" video. I also caught a fleeting glimpse of what looked to be the H&K XM25 launcher during the E3 live stream. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 17:15, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

I think the Magpul PDR-C is just a placeholder for the Scorpion EVO A3--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:50, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== E3 footage ==

Now that EA has shown some new footage of Battlefield 4 during this year E3, some new weapon appear on the video. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 15:26, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Singleplayer 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEZhbV9s1Ag

Multiplayer 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nJY7n8KaOY
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSykcTGrNc
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgZTeVnM5Sw

Saw this on the BF wiki, during the counter knife sequence, "Press F to pickup P90" can be seen.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130611030437/battlefield/images/thumb/1/1c/Knifecounter.png/640px-Knifecounter.png
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

:Good catch there! You can see P90 (along with a QB series weapon on the right) more clearly in this screenshot: http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/1/1d/Siege_of_Shanghai_1.jpg --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:08, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Also saw an XM-25 in June 12 livestream http://gyazo.com/ec33d8c85bc8c3c981fde636cc1a3ffe.png [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 15:45, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== Kel Tec RFB ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-cJhOCd7GY

Also the text here says QBZ-95-1 but the 5.56A-91 image is subbed in: http://imgur.com/a/oBF5P#6nlAhND
[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 14:04, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

YES! FINALLY! I've been waiting for a RFB, and in battlefield no less![[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 23:08, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

:That photo album also confirms the QSZ-92, which isn't a surprise, but it's nice to see there's at least one new pistol. I hope it's the 5.8mm, 20-round version for the sake of variety. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 03:18, 17 June 2013 (EDT)

== 40mm vs. Havoc in Baku ==

"Gee, I really wish I had a 40mm ''before'' that helicopter blew everything up. Oh, wait, I did."--[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] ([[User talk:Animalmenace|talk]]) 08:35, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Wrecker was a ''little'' busy avoiding being turned into salsa by the helicopter. Probably didn't want to spend much time trying to line up a shot to the cockpit with a grenade launcher. Even if he were firing HEDP grenades like the M433 or even the new "HELLHOUND" grenade, I seriously doubt he could have stopped a Havoc with a grenade - unless he happened to hit it right in the cockpit with it. The opportunity to do just that doesn't happen until the thing comes down to the deck to finish off the car. (Pilot got cocky I guess. Well, his canopy ''can'' stop rifle rounds, guess he figured he was okay.) [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] ([[User talk:Atypicaloracle|talk]]) 06:42, 22 June 2013 (EDT)

== Alpha Code Leak ==
Here's the link: http://pastebin.com/MX9mBuzJ
I'll post what's relevant, though the it can be a bit confusing at times. The Starstreak, a British MANPADS with three mini-missiles that launch after the main missile reaches max speed, will be in. Both the M15 and M34 smoke grenades are mentioned. We already knew about the MBT LAW, right? M82A3 (yes!), FAMAS, M40A5, 870, UMP, OMFG-148 Javelin. The XM25 will have both standard airburst, and smoke airburst grenades. The M320 has the same four ammo types as BF3, with the addition of 40mm flashbangs. In the optics section, there's a "visionking", even though the model can't be known yet, I bet it's the 20x scope. There are 1x, 3x, 4x, 6x, 8x, 20x, and 40x scopes, as well as "ugl", which is likely just the M320's sights. I think the 8x is just a left over from BF3, as we know we're getting 6x and 20x options for sniper rifles, and the adjustable zoom attachment adds 14x to whichever you have, so 6x & 14x, or 14x & 20x. Since it sounds like th M82 will always have a scope and bipod, which means it's likely not customizable, I bet it will have to have a 40x scope at all times, as part of its balance. That's everything relevant to us that I could find. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:14, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

I've talked to an alpha player, said the Barrett is a stationary weapon if I'm not mistaken. Also saw the UTAS sight right before visionking.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 18:17, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

The Barrett ''should'' be a stationary weapon, not something you can run around all willy-nilly with. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:23, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

:Right, the UTAS, that's what I missed when writing this. From what I've read, the M82 is a pickup weapon that's on the map, like the Ceph weapons in Crysis 3. Per these stats it does 110 damage, has no damage drop over range, but roughly a five second reload. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:00, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

== Battlelog inventory screen ==

http://s22.postimg.org/unc6vxf1t/bf4.jpg

The latest Battlelog trailer showing all the apps and stuff had someone choosing their loadout. AK-12 featured prominently.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 16:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

Hm, I didn't know the FAMAS looked like a SCAR. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 13:27, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:SAR-21? Cool! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:09, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:@Pyramid, they've been using placeholder icons since the alpha.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 16:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

I hope to God the M16 isn't the A3 in final, also in the trailer we see an "M14A3", possible typo?[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 08:39, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

::That's definitely a typo for the M16A3. Also, it has to be in, the US needs a full-auto AR. And while some people here seem to think otherwise, there are two different rifles that got the "A3" designation, the first being a full-auto A2, the other being a full-auto A4. They have different Colt model numbers, but are both A3s as far as the military is concerned. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:37, 28 July 2013 (EDT)
:::The "M16A3" is so damn confusing. I am currently of the opinion that there are actually 3 different US military issue rifles that are all the A3. The first is the Colt made M16A2E3 which was introduced in 1992 I think. This had a standard A2 upper along with an A1 style lower (no A2 strengthening points) and was stamped A2E3. Then you have the M16A3 that was made after this that had an A2 style lower (but with burst replaced by auto and stamped as the M16A3) and an A2 upper. I think these were made from 1994 and all of these were made by FN, but not sure. Finally you have the debatable flat top upper one. Annoyingly, from Googling I can't find any pictures of this actually being used, but I am about 99% sure it exists. I believe that all of the M16A3s that were ordered post OIF are the flat top kind, and they are mainly a mix of FN and Sabre Defence made rifles. I remember seeing a picture of one of the Sabre Defence guns and it was flat top with a railed handguard, and as the order for 5000 or so M16A3s from them was in 2008, I would be amazed if the US military was buying any rifle without a sight rail then. Similarly, there have been orders from FN for the M16A3 as recently as 2010, and again I don't believe that they would still be buying carry handle uppers at this point. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:13, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
::::Found some proof that a flat top M16A3 exists in [http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk148/pezboytate/Firearms/m16a3sabredefense.jpg this] photo. It is a Sabre Defence Gun marked as M16A3, property of US Government, S/1/F selector, railed handguard and flat top A4 style upper receiver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:37, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::Not an M16A3, it's just had parts swapped out. The A3 was an A2 with an S/1/F lower when it was adopted in the 90s and it remains this today. This was told to me by active duty US Navy SEAL just this morning. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:12, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
::::::Do you seriously think the US government would be buying an AR-15 platform without a flat top as late as 2010 (FN and Colt were awarded contracts including M16A3s in 2007, Sabre Defence got one in 2008, and FN got another in 2010)? I think the majority that are around are still the older A3s with the carry handle, but I think the newer ones like this have a flat top. Note that it has a Shot Show tag on it, I doubt that they would be showing off a random franken-gun at their booth as opposed to their newest government contract. [http://www.guns.com/reviews/sabre-defence-m16a3/ Here] is another photo of the Sabre Defence version showing the whole gun. I don't know if the contract was fully completed before Sabre Defence went belly up, however there has been a new contract with FN since this point, so can only assume that the FN guns would be built to the same or better spec than these as opposed to taking a step backwards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:50, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::To make things even more confusing, the picture in that link shows a flattop M16, but all the text and stats imply it has an A2 upper. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:29, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I don't know why they're still buying rifles in that configuration, but [http://seabeemagazine.navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/05/17/nmcb-5-undergoes-rifle-quals-in-okanawa/ they are]. I can swap out the upper receiver group and buttstock on an M4 to give it a 24" barrel and a PRS buttstock, would that make you think "new" M4s are being procured as DMRs instead of carbines? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:35, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
::::::::A few points. Firstly that doesn't say anything about what configuration the rifles that are currently built are in, just that there are rifles in the inventory that have the fixed carry handle. As I said before, I think the majority of rifles in circulation will have the A2 upper, it will only be the newest ones that have the A4 style ones. Secondly, if I had to guess I would say that those are not the newer guns made by FN or Sabre Defense. If you look at the finish it is gray, particularly when you compare it to the M4 which is in one of the photos which is much blacker in comparison. I believe that current FN and Sabre Defense guns (along with current Colt ones I think) have a black finish, whereas the gray was on older Colt guns. Lastly, I don't see what you are getting at with the last point about switching out the upper. Are you saying that people are doing this to M16A3s, or that the pictures of the Sabre Defense gun are a case of this? If the latter than I don't think this is the case, as firstly they are pictures provided by Sabre Defense to show off the fact they are (were) making M16A3s for the military so I doubt it would be a random cobbled together gun, particularly as it has the US Gov and M16A3 markings. Another thing to bear in mind, is that for these recent orders they were combined with orders for M16A4s. If they are making M16A4s I imagine it would be cheaper to be producing flat top A3s than carry handle ones, as the upper would be common between the two variants without having to tool up and run a whole separate production line. Again, I find it hard to believe that the Navy would pay more for something with less utility. Maybe the new ones do have a fixed carry handle, but to me it makes no logical sense why they would choose to do this, and from the evidence I can find the rifles that Sabre Defense made to the US Government spec had a flat top when they were made in 2008. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:37, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
:: SCAR-L or HK416 works fine imo, also the M4 will be all kit as a carbine so I'd rather not have the same game of Assault spam again.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:11, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

== MGL Reload ==
Someone added that you only reload three shells, but I think they were being loaded two at a time. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:08, 26 July 2013 (EDT)

== Character Model Images ==
I had heard a rumour that the P226 was going to be in, [http://bf4talk.com/threads/battlefield-4-characters-hd.606/ but this confirms it.] About time a we see a SIG in a game again. My gut tells me it will be the .40 version, to bridge the gap between the standard issue 9mms (plus the G17), and the M1911; it would be a perfect fit in both damage and mag size. I don't have a link, but there are a few guns built into the Alpha that people have found; the ones we didn't know about (other than the P226, which is the railed version) are the Mx4 Storm and CS/LR4. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:12, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

It could also be a simple holster stuffer, too. This is hardly proof that the gun will be usable. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:00, 30 July 2013 (EDT)

::The P226 was found in the files along with the Mx4 and CS/LR4, as dog tags. [http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_4/comments/1h593e/heres_an_accurate_list_of_all_weaponsgadgets I found the sources.] [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:27, 30 July 2013 (EDT)

:::[http://i.imgur.com/DFMOy4p.jpg Here's] a leaked screenshot of the M82 from the Alpha. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:28, 1 August 2013 (EDT)

I don't think that character holding the LMG has enough American flags on his uniform. Jesus. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 06:15, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

== QBZ-95(-1?) and RPG-7 confirmed ==
Video from the Wintergore's channel (also shows the RPG-7):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzdSfV3e-VI

Video from the Levelcap's channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2F6B4Gtnhc

These are just a few videos that confirm the implementation of the QBZ-95 in BF4. Also Levelcap call it "QBZ-95-1", but I'm not sure that the rifle models are actually based on the newest QBZ-95 variant or they are just a modified version of the old QBB-95 models from BF3 ([[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]) 9:36, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

:Here's a [http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348580286883/ thread on Battlelog] that's compiled all of these clips that have been given to the community. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:11, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

== New Weapons ==
Remington 870, M40A5 (I'm assuming, I don't know exactly), the Hybrid M249 from the last Battlefield, AK-12, PKP Pecheneg, SV-98, Saiga 12k, QBZ-95 (unknown if it's the original or the QBZ-95-1) and the CS/LR4 are getting added
Proof:
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/f/fe/Battlefield_4_American_Character_Models.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/b/b2/Battlefield_4_Russian_Character_Models.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/3/31/Battlefield_4_Chinese_Character_Models.jpg
---[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 08:53, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

*ok, so apparently I'm EXTREMELY tardy to the party.... My bad. --[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:46, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

:It's a QBZ-95-1 (QBZ-95G alternatively) for sure. PLA engineer also sports a QBS-09 semi automatic shotgun. However, as refreshing that is to see, I wag my finger in disappointment at the Russian medic who forgot to pack up appropriate VOG-25 grenades for his trip. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 08:21, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

::ok, so there are some new things in there, right? I didn't just waste everyone's time?--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:35, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

:::I'm pretty sure QBS-09 was never seen before in any official or unofficial Battlefield 4 material. Haven't really been following it around, but any news around that are desirable. Thanks for posting these photos. There's also the rocket/missile launcher on the PLA engineers back. I'm pretty sure that's new, considering Alpha footage assigned good ol' RPG-7 to the Chinese. It could just be a Strela again or it's Chinese derivative. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:28, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

PK Pecheneg is new. US assault has a Glock (17?) in his chest again. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:09, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

:I don't know. I'm pretty sure PKP appeared in the installment beforehand, just not as a starting weapon for the class/kit in question. I think it will be interesting seeing three faction and how they play off each other, even if they'll probably end up being just reskined versions of each other in terms of vehicles and starting weapons. Can anybody ID the shotgun US soldier is carrying. I was inclined to think it's [http://www.imfdb.org/images/e/e9/Remington_870MCS.jpg Remington 870MCS] just like in previous few installments and based on the over all shape, however the other two factions lug semi automatic shotguns. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:28, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

::I'd never even heard of the QBS-09 before, so thanks for the links :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 20:51, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

Same about the QBS, neat. I'm positive thats an 870MCS as in the previous installments, perhaps its a place holder though. Interesting if they have it both with the Serbu 870.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 01:02, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

:I'm pretty sure QBS-09 wasn't seen anywhere outside of the few official press releases. This is definitely the first appearance in entertainment media. Not even sure if it was adopted besides for a few selected units and possibly pushed for police service. It's refreshing to see a rarity like this crop up. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 07:45, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

::oh... So, I didn't waste everyone's time?--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 11:08, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

==Paracel Storm Trailer==
HOLY CRAP. aside from the new guns (ACE 21, etc.) Did anyone else see the boat hit the shore and land in that building? So awesome...--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:45, 20 August 2013 (EDT)
:That was an awesome trailer, I didn't see any guns you missed. Here's the P226 in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEIWYgA2lbQ Premium trailer], at 0:51, and the UTS-15 in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guxDcKmhDLA Levolution trailer], at 0:42. Here's a [http://blogscdn.battlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Battlefield-4-Paracel-Storm-4-WM.jpg.jpg screenshot] revealing there's an M200. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:20, 20 August 2013 (EDT)

Think there was a modern AK12 derived Saiga in the base trailer, when the camera follows the soldier walking up a catwalk and gunning down his foe.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:54, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

It looked like an AK-12 firing shotgun rounds, which was weird, so that makes sense to me. The "MSMC" looks to actually be a CBJ-MS. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:04, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

== Every weapon in Battlefield 4 ==

So somebody at Gamespot managed to get a recording of the class customisation menu. They went through every weapon subset and a few of the attachment menus. Pretty much reveals everything except vehicle weaponry. I'm not sure if this can be added to the page (does it count as a leak?), but it's still interesting and it couldn't hurt to have it here anyway. Some of the guns have made up names (or are too obscure to be found in a quick google search) but there are four Ak-12 variants, the SAR-21 and a good amount of chinese weapons. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 13:21, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

[http://uk.gamespot.com/events/gamescom-2013/battlefield-4-every-class-every-weapon-every-unlock-6413393/ Video is here]

:To be honest, I'm disappointed with the selection. Most of the weapons are same (and look like re-used models as well) as in Battlefield 3, with very few additions. Then, again, they covered quite a lot of firearms there, so some were bound to re-appear. Hope the time and resources were put into making more maps and tools that are fun to play around with. There's also no designated launcher for the Chinese faction, so I assume Russians and Chinese will both share RPG-7V2. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 14:14, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

No MP7 but two UMP's and the SPAS 12 makes me a bit dissapoint, although they'll likely add more weapons. Also, didn't the Chinese engineer have his own launcher in the hi def faction screens. Also, the AK12 Saiga is the OBV 12, interesting.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:19, 21 August 2013 (EDT)
:: Youtube link if needed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLzYLTPN6Mw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 18:34, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

:::There's no way that's the final build, there's too much missing, like no Chinese launchers or G17 even though we saw them, no M1911 would just be silly, I could go on. I bet this is most of the weapons, say 2/3 or 3/4, but not all of them. Note that there is other stuff missing from the build too, like the F-22 (US is using the PAK-FA). The "SRR-61" is the M200 Intervention, as the that's in the build but not on the list, and the "SRR-61" says it has 7 rounds of .408. The "338-Recon" could be a lot of things. The "Compact 45" is likely an HK45C, BF doesn't use HK names after all, and they couldn't name it "M45C", as the M1911 variant in BF3 (and likely this one) is the M45. While the "Compact 45" is listed as having 15 round, that would be ridiculous, and is likely an oversight in the stats. The Galil ACEs are listed as 30 rounds, but do in fact have 35, as seen in the trailer, so some are wrong. Also, the HK45C takes 8 round magazines, which means they could have the M1911 along side it with no balance issues. I believe the rest of the guns are named properly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:11, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
::::The SVD-12 is likely an AK-12 DMR variant, rather than an actual SVD variant. If we're getting whole families of rifles like this (5 AK-12s, 4 Galils, the Q series) I hope we get the rest of the G36-series lineup in DLC. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:43, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::Not sure if [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QOPsp9pRnc8#t=196 this clip in this video] is from a longer one, but it shows that when you put a Heavy Barrel on a P90 it becomes a full auto PS90. HK45, not the C, as the "Compact 45" [http://i.imgur.com/PfN53FI.png confirmed]. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:07, 23 August 2013 (EDT)

== Some more weapon images ==

http://i.imgur.com/eqfdwoZ.jpg

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 03:03, 22 August 2013 (EDT)

== Article needs updating ==

People need to start looking for GamesCom multiplayer footage of the various new confirmed guns and put screencaps of them on this page. Come on, people, this article needs to be updated! [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 10:29, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:You do know that you can do it yourself, instead of asking someone ELSE to do it. Maybe you should have a look at the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#No_page_vandalism|rules]] again... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:52, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
::That's the thing: no, I can't. I don't know how to do. Also, how have I committed vandalism, exactly? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 13:00, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:::If you want something screencapped but don't know how to do it, the correct thing to do would be to ask for advice on how to do it, rather than badger other people to do it for you. I suggest you read the [[IMFDB Screencapping Guide]]. Assuming the video you are talking about is on youtube, you can even do it as simply as just pausing it, print screening and cropping in paint. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:19, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
::::The screencapping guide contains a link to Fast Stone Image Viewer, which is free and far superior to MS Paint. The guide also details how to take screen captures with Fast Stone Image Viewer. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:25, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::How do I put the images on the site once I've captured them? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 13:39, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
::::::Go to the panel on the left and look under "Toolbox" and click on "Upload file." Browse to the file you want to upload (or drag and drop onto that box,) then tag the image in the summary box below (for example, <nowiki>[[Category: Screenshot]]</nowiki> for screenshots,) and then click on upload. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:16, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::::How do I delete an uploaded file that's named wrong? Or just change the name of it? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 09:55, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
::You can either use the move tool or you can tag it for deletion with <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki> and reupload. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 10:49, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:::How do I do that? Where do I find the move tool and how do I tag it with <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki>? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 10:51, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
::::Actually, I just figured out how to do the latter. Still would like to know how to do the former, though! :) [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 11:28, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::If you click on an image, look at the tabs at the top of the page, and you'll see a tab for move. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 11:46, 16 September 2013 (EDT)

== Another 93R ==

Not sure if this is a correct model but another incarnation of the 93R is seen here:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0H9lXzp6MmM&feature=relmfu

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 02:17, 1 September 2013 (EDT)

== No M16A3 for BF4 multiplayer ==

The M16A3 is removed from BF4 multiplayer. the M16 model seen on recent gameplay is actually mislabeled and is now corrected as the three round burst M16A4.

You can read about this here:
http://pixelenemy.com/m16a3-removed-from-battlefield-4-multiplayer-dice-confirms/

[[User:Dangerman1973|Dangerman1973]] ([[User talk:Dangerman1973|talk]]) 02:09, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

FUCK.YES (pardon the french)[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 09:16, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

::What the heck, was the M16A3 really so annoying? Me and my friends, we have never even heard of this "controversy", and we play on multiple paltforms... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:14, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

:::yeah, same here, I don't recall it having really low recoil... I couldn't kill anyone with the M16A3. I just used the a4.--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:09, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

From the looks of things in a few recent videos the M4A1 is out and the M4 is replacing it too, so it will be the dedicated burst/semi Carbine. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] ([[User talk:5t3v0|talk]]) 14:49, 18 September 2013 (EDT)

== Fire selectors? ==

Does anyone know if BF4 will feature correct fire selectors that visibly change on the weapon model depending on current fire mode? I was hoping to see this. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 17:55, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

== GP-30 Confirmed ==
And a brief glimpse of the Five-seveN in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_dacA-ZEWQ this video], second halfish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:58, 24 September 2013 (EDT)

== Cocking the RPG-7's hammer? ==

Ok, guys, I got the beta, and while using the RPG, I've noticed that after loading the rocket, you cock the hammer on the grip (a detail that I've not seen any game include so far). Just something I thought was interesting. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 01:05, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

:I thought that was the safety lever.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:37, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

::Nope, it was the hammer. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:20, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Battlefield 4

2013-10-05T16:20:49Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Cocking the RPG-7's hammer? */

== Leaks ==

http://www.overclock.net/t/1375494/neogaf-leaked-bf4-screens
Looks like M249E3 and M4(?) with MoH:WF influence.
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

== 17-minute gameplay ==

The first 17 minutes of gameplay have been released now. I've added myself some guns in the page and if someone thinks some guns are wrong, feel free to change it since I'm still a novice when it comes to identify guns in games. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 10:26, 27 March 2013 (EDT)
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HVQXkeU8U

== Shorty shotgun ==

The shorty shotgun could also be the same breacher-configured 870 MCS from ''Warfighter''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:03, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

== M249E3 Para SAW / Mk 46 Mod 0 Hybrid ==

Do you guys think that the machine gun Irish is carrying it's actually a hybrid between a M249E3 Para SAW and a Mk 46 Mod 0? I've watched the gameplay video a couple times and I can't really see it the machine gun has a STANAG well under the belt to see that is a cross between the two weapons. For the time being I just added the machine gun to the page as an Mk 46 Mod 0, although I'm not sure if you can change its fixed stock for a collapsible and still call it an Mk 46 Mod 0. Here is a picture to take a look that I took from the Battlefield 4 site. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 09:17, 29 March 2013 (EDT) 
[[File:bf4 m249.jpg|thumb|400px|none|]]
:It has a conventional M249 barrel and carry handle, both things lacked by the MK46. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 12:13, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
::The Mod 1 variant restores the carry handle and barrels are interchangeable. The only telling features that distinguish an M249 from a Mk 46 are the magazine well (which we can't determine since no images of the left side of the gun are provided) and the vehicle mounting lug, which the in-game gun noticeably lacks. This could very well be a true Mk 46, for once. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 08:13, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

:Also on the picture above Pac has an M4A1, it's seen in the gamplay trailer too. --[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 03:29, 4 April 2013 (EDT)

== Vehicle Mounted HMG ==

At 6.58 in the gameplay video, when Record engages the buggy with the Serbu Super Shorty, you see the HMG mounted above it. Is it a Dushka?
I'm rubbish with the whole screen-shot thing so I won't attempt that. It has just been bothering me. Thanks. --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] ([[User talk:Ritch|talk]]) 05:47, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

It's most likely a Kord HMG, just guessing from Russian vehicle armorments in previous games.--[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fan]] ([[User talk:AK-74Fan|talk]]) 12:01, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

Ahh right thanks! I have to admit, I am absolute rubbish at ID-ing HMG's. --[[User:Ritch|Ritch]] ([[User talk:Ritch|talk]]) 10:52, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

== Have they learned their lessons from Battlefield 3? ==

Looking over the BF3 discussion page, I'm driven to wonder if DICE has learned their lessons from BF3's lifetime and are going to make this game better (at least with respect to emulating real-life firearms). I'd like to think they will--this website's popularity is rising, so more people are aware of DICE's shortcomings when it comes to realistic firearms than before. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 14:24, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

This could be because I'm SP-centric (and BF3 has been shelved since ''Warfighter'' came out), but the only weapon-related "shortcoming" I felt BF3 had was the use of M240Bs and so-called "M16A3s" (which I still have yet to see convincing proof is a flat top receiver when all the ''official'' sources say it's the same thing it was when first adopted--a fixed carry handle A2 upper) by the Marines. MP probably has more I'm either unaware of or have forgotten, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 21:04, 30 March 2013 (EDT)

:This is a pic of an M16A3 built under license by FN, I imagine that one could just slap an A4 upper on it and you have a flattop AR: [http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/untitled5cb1.jpg M16A3] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 11:08, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

::I've seen that one before. Changing a major component like that makes it ''not'' an M16A3 because it doesn't adhere to the military's A3 specification, though. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:33, 3 April 2013 (EDT)

:Gonna have to agree. DICE have been very accurate with weapon characteristics in BF3, give or take a few things. In comparison to other FPS, BF3 already stood head and shoulders above. Fire selectors and bolt releases were missing, along with certain Only Warfighter has had the hyper-realism I've always been looking for (except for AK variants, but I don't mind >.>), and I'm sure DICE will bring at least some of that back into BF4. --[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 20:45, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

== More weapons shown ==

Some new pics show the weapon loadout screens but they're watermarked to hell and back.

http://i.imgur.com/Ef1eymph.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m6NUETrh.jpg

CZ-805

Beretta M9

Scorpion EVO A3

Magpul PDR-C

QBZ-95

Type 88 LMG

QSZ-92

SV-98

QBU-88

Scout Elite

Ultimax 100 Mk5
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 06:00, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

The Czechnology seems to be getting around.But oh great, 4 classes...again. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 12:24, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

:I don't know about you, but I think it would be hard to snipe with no arms. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 21:59, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

The Ak5c and the Saiga can be added to the page right now. They are seen in the new "Angry Sea" video. I also caught a fleeting glimpse of what looked to be the H&K XM25 launcher during the E3 live stream. [[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 17:15, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

I think the Magpul PDR-C is just a placeholder for the Scorpion EVO A3--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:50, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== E3 footage ==

Now that EA has shown some new footage of Battlefield 4 during this year E3, some new weapon appear on the video. [[User:Santos|Santos]] ([[User talk:Santos|talk]]) 15:26, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Singleplayer 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEZhbV9s1Ag

Multiplayer 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nJY7n8KaOY
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSykcTGrNc
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgZTeVnM5Sw

Saw this on the BF wiki, during the counter knife sequence, "Press F to pickup P90" can be seen.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130611030437/battlefield/images/thumb/1/1c/Knifecounter.png/640px-Knifecounter.png
[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

:Good catch there! You can see P90 (along with a QB series weapon on the right) more clearly in this screenshot: http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/1/1d/Siege_of_Shanghai_1.jpg --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 17:08, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Also saw an XM-25 in June 12 livestream http://gyazo.com/ec33d8c85bc8c3c981fde636cc1a3ffe.png [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 15:45, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

== Kel Tec RFB ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-cJhOCd7GY

Also the text here says QBZ-95-1 but the 5.56A-91 image is subbed in: http://imgur.com/a/oBF5P#6nlAhND
[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 14:04, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

YES! FINALLY! I've been waiting for a RFB, and in battlefield no less![[User:GLOCK10mm|GLOCK10mm]] ([[User talk:GLOCK10mm|talk]]) 23:08, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

:That photo album also confirms the QSZ-92, which isn't a surprise, but it's nice to see there's at least one new pistol. I hope it's the 5.8mm, 20-round version for the sake of variety. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 03:18, 17 June 2013 (EDT)

== 40mm vs. Havoc in Baku ==

"Gee, I really wish I had a 40mm ''before'' that helicopter blew everything up. Oh, wait, I did."--[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] ([[User talk:Animalmenace|talk]]) 08:35, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Wrecker was a ''little'' busy avoiding being turned into salsa by the helicopter. Probably didn't want to spend much time trying to line up a shot to the cockpit with a grenade launcher. Even if he were firing HEDP grenades like the M433 or even the new "HELLHOUND" grenade, I seriously doubt he could have stopped a Havoc with a grenade - unless he happened to hit it right in the cockpit with it. The opportunity to do just that doesn't happen until the thing comes down to the deck to finish off the car. (Pilot got cocky I guess. Well, his canopy ''can'' stop rifle rounds, guess he figured he was okay.) [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] ([[User talk:Atypicaloracle|talk]]) 06:42, 22 June 2013 (EDT)

== Alpha Code Leak ==
Here's the link: http://pastebin.com/MX9mBuzJ
I'll post what's relevant, though the it can be a bit confusing at times. The Starstreak, a British MANPADS with three mini-missiles that launch after the main missile reaches max speed, will be in. Both the M15 and M34 smoke grenades are mentioned. We already knew about the MBT LAW, right? M82A3 (yes!), FAMAS, M40A5, 870, UMP, OMFG-148 Javelin. The XM25 will have both standard airburst, and smoke airburst grenades. The M320 has the same four ammo types as BF3, with the addition of 40mm flashbangs. In the optics section, there's a "visionking", even though the model can't be known yet, I bet it's the 20x scope. There are 1x, 3x, 4x, 6x, 8x, 20x, and 40x scopes, as well as "ugl", which is likely just the M320's sights. I think the 8x is just a left over from BF3, as we know we're getting 6x and 20x options for sniper rifles, and the adjustable zoom attachment adds 14x to whichever you have, so 6x & 14x, or 14x & 20x. Since it sounds like th M82 will always have a scope and bipod, which means it's likely not customizable, I bet it will have to have a 40x scope at all times, as part of its balance. That's everything relevant to us that I could find. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:14, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

I've talked to an alpha player, said the Barrett is a stationary weapon if I'm not mistaken. Also saw the UTAS sight right before visionking.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 18:17, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

The Barrett ''should'' be a stationary weapon, not something you can run around all willy-nilly with. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:23, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

:Right, the UTAS, that's what I missed when writing this. From what I've read, the M82 is a pickup weapon that's on the map, like the Ceph weapons in Crysis 3. Per these stats it does 110 damage, has no damage drop over range, but roughly a five second reload. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:00, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

== Battlelog inventory screen ==

http://s22.postimg.org/unc6vxf1t/bf4.jpg

The latest Battlelog trailer showing all the apps and stuff had someone choosing their loadout. AK-12 featured prominently.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 16:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

Hm, I didn't know the FAMAS looked like a SCAR. --[[User:PyramidHead|PyramidHead]] ([[User talk:PyramidHead|talk]]) 13:27, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:SAR-21? Cool! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:09, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

:@Pyramid, they've been using placeholder icons since the alpha.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 16:55, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

I hope to God the M16 isn't the A3 in final, also in the trailer we see an "M14A3", possible typo?[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 08:39, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

::That's definitely a typo for the M16A3. Also, it has to be in, the US needs a full-auto AR. And while some people here seem to think otherwise, there are two different rifles that got the "A3" designation, the first being a full-auto A2, the other being a full-auto A4. They have different Colt model numbers, but are both A3s as far as the military is concerned. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:37, 28 July 2013 (EDT)
:::The "M16A3" is so damn confusing. I am currently of the opinion that there are actually 3 different US military issue rifles that are all the A3. The first is the Colt made M16A2E3 which was introduced in 1992 I think. This had a standard A2 upper along with an A1 style lower (no A2 strengthening points) and was stamped A2E3. Then you have the M16A3 that was made after this that had an A2 style lower (but with burst replaced by auto and stamped as the M16A3) and an A2 upper. I think these were made from 1994 and all of these were made by FN, but not sure. Finally you have the debatable flat top upper one. Annoyingly, from Googling I can't find any pictures of this actually being used, but I am about 99% sure it exists. I believe that all of the M16A3s that were ordered post OIF are the flat top kind, and they are mainly a mix of FN and Sabre Defence made rifles. I remember seeing a picture of one of the Sabre Defence guns and it was flat top with a railed handguard, and as the order for 5000 or so M16A3s from them was in 2008, I would be amazed if the US military was buying any rifle without a sight rail then. Similarly, there have been orders from FN for the M16A3 as recently as 2010, and again I don't believe that they would still be buying carry handle uppers at this point. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:13, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
::::Found some proof that a flat top M16A3 exists in [http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk148/pezboytate/Firearms/m16a3sabredefense.jpg this] photo. It is a Sabre Defence Gun marked as M16A3, property of US Government, S/1/F selector, railed handguard and flat top A4 style upper receiver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:37, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::Not an M16A3, it's just had parts swapped out. The A3 was an A2 with an S/1/F lower when it was adopted in the 90s and it remains this today. This was told to me by active duty US Navy SEAL just this morning. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:12, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
::::::Do you seriously think the US government would be buying an AR-15 platform without a flat top as late as 2010 (FN and Colt were awarded contracts including M16A3s in 2007, Sabre Defence got one in 2008, and FN got another in 2010)? I think the majority that are around are still the older A3s with the carry handle, but I think the newer ones like this have a flat top. Note that it has a Shot Show tag on it, I doubt that they would be showing off a random franken-gun at their booth as opposed to their newest government contract. [http://www.guns.com/reviews/sabre-defence-m16a3/ Here] is another photo of the Sabre Defence version showing the whole gun. I don't know if the contract was fully completed before Sabre Defence went belly up, however there has been a new contract with FN since this point, so can only assume that the FN guns would be built to the same or better spec than these as opposed to taking a step backwards. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:50, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::To make things even more confusing, the picture in that link shows a flattop M16, but all the text and stats imply it has an A2 upper. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:29, 30 July 2013 (EDT)
:::::::I don't know why they're still buying rifles in that configuration, but [http://seabeemagazine.navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/05/17/nmcb-5-undergoes-rifle-quals-in-okanawa/ they are]. I can swap out the upper receiver group and buttstock on an M4 to give it a 24" barrel and a PRS buttstock, would that make you think "new" M4s are being procured as DMRs instead of carbines? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:35, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
::::::::A few points. Firstly that doesn't say anything about what configuration the rifles that are currently built are in, just that there are rifles in the inventory that have the fixed carry handle. As I said before, I think the majority of rifles in circulation will have the A2 upper, it will only be the newest ones that have the A4 style ones. Secondly, if I had to guess I would say that those are not the newer guns made by FN or Sabre Defense. If you look at the finish it is gray, particularly when you compare it to the M4 which is in one of the photos which is much blacker in comparison. I believe that current FN and Sabre Defense guns (along with current Colt ones I think) have a black finish, whereas the gray was on older Colt guns. Lastly, I don't see what you are getting at with the last point about switching out the upper. Are you saying that people are doing this to M16A3s, or that the pictures of the Sabre Defense gun are a case of this? If the latter than I don't think this is the case, as firstly they are pictures provided by Sabre Defense to show off the fact they are (were) making M16A3s for the military so I doubt it would be a random cobbled together gun, particularly as it has the US Gov and M16A3 markings. Another thing to bear in mind, is that for these recent orders they were combined with orders for M16A4s. If they are making M16A4s I imagine it would be cheaper to be producing flat top A3s than carry handle ones, as the upper would be common between the two variants without having to tool up and run a whole separate production line. Again, I find it hard to believe that the Navy would pay more for something with less utility. Maybe the new ones do have a fixed carry handle, but to me it makes no logical sense why they would choose to do this, and from the evidence I can find the rifles that Sabre Defense made to the US Government spec had a flat top when they were made in 2008. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:37, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
:: SCAR-L or HK416 works fine imo, also the M4 will be all kit as a carbine so I'd rather not have the same game of Assault spam again.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 23:11, 28 July 2013 (EDT)

== MGL Reload ==
Someone added that you only reload three shells, but I think they were being loaded two at a time. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 22:08, 26 July 2013 (EDT)

== Character Model Images ==
I had heard a rumour that the P226 was going to be in, [http://bf4talk.com/threads/battlefield-4-characters-hd.606/ but this confirms it.] About time a we see a SIG in a game again. My gut tells me it will be the .40 version, to bridge the gap between the standard issue 9mms (plus the G17), and the M1911; it would be a perfect fit in both damage and mag size. I don't have a link, but there are a few guns built into the Alpha that people have found; the ones we didn't know about (other than the P226, which is the railed version) are the Mx4 Storm and CS/LR4. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:12, 29 July 2013 (EDT)

It could also be a simple holster stuffer, too. This is hardly proof that the gun will be usable. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 15:00, 30 July 2013 (EDT)

::The P226 was found in the files along with the Mx4 and CS/LR4, as dog tags. [http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_4/comments/1h593e/heres_an_accurate_list_of_all_weaponsgadgets I found the sources.] [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:27, 30 July 2013 (EDT)

:::[http://i.imgur.com/DFMOy4p.jpg Here's] a leaked screenshot of the M82 from the Alpha. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 17:28, 1 August 2013 (EDT)

I don't think that character holding the LMG has enough American flags on his uniform. Jesus. --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] ([[User talk:DeltaOne|talk]]) 06:15, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

== QBZ-95(-1?) and RPG-7 confirmed ==
Video from the Wintergore's channel (also shows the RPG-7):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzdSfV3e-VI

Video from the Levelcap's channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2F6B4Gtnhc

These are just a few videos that confirm the implementation of the QBZ-95 in BF4. Also Levelcap call it "QBZ-95-1", but I'm not sure that the rifle models are actually based on the newest QBZ-95 variant or they are just a modified version of the old QBB-95 models from BF3 ([[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]) 9:36, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

:Here's a [http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348580286883/ thread on Battlelog] that's compiled all of these clips that have been given to the community. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:11, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

== New Weapons ==
Remington 870, M40A5 (I'm assuming, I don't know exactly), the Hybrid M249 from the last Battlefield, AK-12, PKP Pecheneg, SV-98, Saiga 12k, QBZ-95 (unknown if it's the original or the QBZ-95-1) and the CS/LR4 are getting added
Proof:
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/f/fe/Battlefield_4_American_Character_Models.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/b/b2/Battlefield_4_Russian_Character_Models.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/battlefield/images/3/31/Battlefield_4_Chinese_Character_Models.jpg
---[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 08:53, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

*ok, so apparently I'm EXTREMELY tardy to the party.... My bad. --[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:46, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

:It's a QBZ-95-1 (QBZ-95G alternatively) for sure. PLA engineer also sports a QBS-09 semi automatic shotgun. However, as refreshing that is to see, I wag my finger in disappointment at the Russian medic who forgot to pack up appropriate VOG-25 grenades for his trip. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 08:21, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

::ok, so there are some new things in there, right? I didn't just waste everyone's time?--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:35, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

:::I'm pretty sure QBS-09 was never seen before in any official or unofficial Battlefield 4 material. Haven't really been following it around, but any news around that are desirable. Thanks for posting these photos. There's also the rocket/missile launcher on the PLA engineers back. I'm pretty sure that's new, considering Alpha footage assigned good ol' RPG-7 to the Chinese. It could just be a Strela again or it's Chinese derivative. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:28, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

PK Pecheneg is new. US assault has a Glock (17?) in his chest again. [[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 10:09, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

:I don't know. I'm pretty sure PKP appeared in the installment beforehand, just not as a starting weapon for the class/kit in question. I think it will be interesting seeing three faction and how they play off each other, even if they'll probably end up being just reskined versions of each other in terms of vehicles and starting weapons. Can anybody ID the shotgun US soldier is carrying. I was inclined to think it's [http://www.imfdb.org/images/e/e9/Remington_870MCS.jpg Remington 870MCS] just like in previous few installments and based on the over all shape, however the other two factions lug semi automatic shotguns. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 15:28, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

::I'd never even heard of the QBS-09 before, so thanks for the links :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 20:51, 17 August 2013 (EDT)

Same about the QBS, neat. I'm positive thats an 870MCS as in the previous installments, perhaps its a place holder though. Interesting if they have it both with the Serbu 870.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 01:02, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

:I'm pretty sure QBS-09 wasn't seen anywhere outside of the few official press releases. This is definitely the first appearance in entertainment media. Not even sure if it was adopted besides for a few selected units and possibly pushed for police service. It's refreshing to see a rarity like this crop up. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 07:45, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

::oh... So, I didn't waste everyone's time?--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 11:08, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

==Paracel Storm Trailer==
HOLY CRAP. aside from the new guns (ACE 21, etc.) Did anyone else see the boat hit the shore and land in that building? So awesome...--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 12:45, 20 August 2013 (EDT)
:That was an awesome trailer, I didn't see any guns you missed. Here's the P226 in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEIWYgA2lbQ Premium trailer], at 0:51, and the UTS-15 in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guxDcKmhDLA Levolution trailer], at 0:42. Here's a [http://blogscdn.battlefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Battlefield-4-Paracel-Storm-4-WM.jpg.jpg screenshot] revealing there's an M200. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 14:20, 20 August 2013 (EDT)

Think there was a modern AK12 derived Saiga in the base trailer, when the camera follows the soldier walking up a catwalk and gunning down his foe.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 00:54, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

It looked like an AK-12 firing shotgun rounds, which was weird, so that makes sense to me. The "MSMC" looks to actually be a CBJ-MS. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:04, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

== Every weapon in Battlefield 4 ==

So somebody at Gamespot managed to get a recording of the class customisation menu. They went through every weapon subset and a few of the attachment menus. Pretty much reveals everything except vehicle weaponry. I'm not sure if this can be added to the page (does it count as a leak?), but it's still interesting and it couldn't hurt to have it here anyway. Some of the guns have made up names (or are too obscure to be found in a quick google search) but there are four Ak-12 variants, the SAR-21 and a good amount of chinese weapons. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 13:21, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

[http://uk.gamespot.com/events/gamescom-2013/battlefield-4-every-class-every-weapon-every-unlock-6413393/ Video is here]

:To be honest, I'm disappointed with the selection. Most of the weapons are same (and look like re-used models as well) as in Battlefield 3, with very few additions. Then, again, they covered quite a lot of firearms there, so some were bound to re-appear. Hope the time and resources were put into making more maps and tools that are fun to play around with. There's also no designated launcher for the Chinese faction, so I assume Russians and Chinese will both share RPG-7V2. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 14:14, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

No MP7 but two UMP's and the SPAS 12 makes me a bit dissapoint, although they'll likely add more weapons. Also, didn't the Chinese engineer have his own launcher in the hi def faction screens. Also, the AK12 Saiga is the OBV 12, interesting.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 16:19, 21 August 2013 (EDT)
:: Youtube link if needed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLzYLTPN6Mw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 18:34, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

:::There's no way that's the final build, there's too much missing, like no Chinese launchers or G17 even though we saw them, no M1911 would just be silly, I could go on. I bet this is most of the weapons, say 2/3 or 3/4, but not all of them. Note that there is other stuff missing from the build too, like the F-22 (US is using the PAK-FA). The "SRR-61" is the M200 Intervention, as the that's in the build but not on the list, and the "SRR-61" says it has 7 rounds of .408. The "338-Recon" could be a lot of things. The "Compact 45" is likely an HK45C, BF doesn't use HK names after all, and they couldn't name it "M45C", as the M1911 variant in BF3 (and likely this one) is the M45. While the "Compact 45" is listed as having 15 round, that would be ridiculous, and is likely an oversight in the stats. The Galil ACEs are listed as 30 rounds, but do in fact have 35, as seen in the trailer, so some are wrong. Also, the HK45C takes 8 round magazines, which means they could have the M1911 along side it with no balance issues. I believe the rest of the guns are named properly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 02:11, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
::::The SVD-12 is likely an AK-12 DMR variant, rather than an actual SVD variant. If we're getting whole families of rifles like this (5 AK-12s, 4 Galils, the Q series) I hope we get the rest of the G36-series lineup in DLC. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:43, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::Not sure if [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QOPsp9pRnc8#t=196 this clip in this video] is from a longer one, but it shows that when you put a Heavy Barrel on a P90 it becomes a full auto PS90. HK45, not the C, as the "Compact 45" [http://i.imgur.com/PfN53FI.png confirmed]. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:07, 23 August 2013 (EDT)

== Some more weapon images ==

http://i.imgur.com/eqfdwoZ.jpg

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 03:03, 22 August 2013 (EDT)

== Article needs updating ==

People need to start looking for GamesCom multiplayer footage of the various new confirmed guns and put screencaps of them on this page. Come on, people, this article needs to be updated! [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 10:29, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:You do know that you can do it yourself, instead of asking someone ELSE to do it. Maybe you should have a look at the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#No_page_vandalism|rules]] again... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:52, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
::That's the thing: no, I can't. I don't know how to do. Also, how have I committed vandalism, exactly? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 13:00, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:::If you want something screencapped but don't know how to do it, the correct thing to do would be to ask for advice on how to do it, rather than badger other people to do it for you. I suggest you read the [[IMFDB Screencapping Guide]]. Assuming the video you are talking about is on youtube, you can even do it as simply as just pausing it, print screening and cropping in paint. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 13:19, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
::::The screencapping guide contains a link to Fast Stone Image Viewer, which is free and far superior to MS Paint. The guide also details how to take screen captures with Fast Stone Image Viewer. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 13:25, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
:::::How do I put the images on the site once I've captured them? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 13:39, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
::::::Go to the panel on the left and look under "Toolbox" and click on "Upload file." Browse to the file you want to upload (or drag and drop onto that box,) then tag the image in the summary box below (for example, <nowiki>[[Category: Screenshot]]</nowiki> for screenshots,) and then click on upload. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 14:16, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::::How do I delete an uploaded file that's named wrong? Or just change the name of it? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 09:55, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
::You can either use the move tool or you can tag it for deletion with <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki> and reupload. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 10:49, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:::How do I do that? Where do I find the move tool and how do I tag it with <nowiki>{{nuke}}</nowiki>? [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 10:51, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
::::Actually, I just figured out how to do the latter. Still would like to know how to do the former, though! :) [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] ([[User talk:Markunator|talk]]) 11:28, 16 September 2013 (EDT)
:::::If you click on an image, look at the tabs at the top of the page, and you'll see a tab for move. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 11:46, 16 September 2013 (EDT)

== Another 93R ==

Not sure if this is a correct model but another incarnation of the 93R is seen here:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0H9lXzp6MmM&feature=relmfu

[[User:Kona|Kona]] ([[User talk:Kona|talk]]) 02:17, 1 September 2013 (EDT)

== No M16A3 for BF4 multiplayer ==

The M16A3 is removed from BF4 multiplayer. the M16 model seen on recent gameplay is actually mislabeled and is now corrected as the three round burst M16A4.

You can read about this here:
http://pixelenemy.com/m16a3-removed-from-battlefield-4-multiplayer-dice-confirms/

[[User:Dangerman1973|Dangerman1973]] ([[User talk:Dangerman1973|talk]]) 02:09, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

FUCK.YES (pardon the french)[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 09:16, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

::What the heck, was the M16A3 really so annoying? Me and my friends, we have never even heard of this "controversy", and we play on multiple paltforms... --[[User:Warejaws|Warejaws]] ([[User talk:Warejaws|talk]]) 10:14, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

:::yeah, same here, I don't recall it having really low recoil... I couldn't kill anyone with the M16A3. I just used the a4.--[[User:TW6464|TW6464]] ([[User talk:TW6464|talk]]) 09:09, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

From the looks of things in a few recent videos the M4A1 is out and the M4 is replacing it too, so it will be the dedicated burst/semi Carbine. [[User:5t3v0|5t3v0]] ([[User talk:5t3v0|talk]]) 14:49, 18 September 2013 (EDT)

== Fire selectors? ==

Does anyone know if BF4 will feature correct fire selectors that visibly change on the weapon model depending on current fire mode? I was hoping to see this. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 17:55, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

== GP-30 Confirmed ==
And a brief glimpse of the Five-seveN in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_dacA-ZEWQ this video], second halfish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 19:58, 24 September 2013 (EDT)

== Cocking the RPG-7's hammer? ==

Ok, guys, I got the beta, and while using the RPG, I've noticed that after loading the rocket, you cock the hammer on the grip (a detail that I've not seen any game include so far). Just something I thought was interesting. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 01:05, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

I thought that was the safety lever.[[User:AgentGumby|AgentGumby]] ([[User talk:AgentGumby|talk]]) 21:37, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

:Nope, it was the hammer. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:20, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Battlefield 4

2013-10-04T05:05:56Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Cocking the RPG-7's hammer? */ new section

Talk:Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

2013-03-17T16:06:30Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Random question regarding the SCAR-H description */

== Airsoft 1911 ==
Are you absolutely sure the airsoft gun wasn't based on the gun in the game?-protoAuthor
:What are you talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:10, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
::You say the custom 1911 was based on an airsoft gun. Are you sure it wasn't the other way around?-protoAuthor
::I also agree that the gun isn't based off the one in the pic for that weapon. Aside from it being an airsoft gun, it is a compact version of a 1911 when Big Boss's 1911 was a fullsize. Also, the slide serrations are slanted wheras the ones on big boss's weapon were vertical like those on the original 1911. Neither one has anything to do with the other, I think the image should be removed.

the 'source' for the statement 'Big Boss's gun is based off a custom airsoft' is http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/gameguns.html

However, I view this with a huge degree of skepticism. For starters, as mentioned, the barrel/slide seems to be longer on Big Boss's gun. But even if it is based on an airsoft gun, the airsoft gun itself is based on a standard real-world 1911 with real world features. So it's just one step removed from raw, hands on research. But then again, I don't think most game companies actually buy real versions of the guns they are modeling, they just look around for photos of them. It's like saying 'the model for the gun in this game isn't based on a REAL M-16, it's based on pictures of an M-16'

That 'source' mentions that the gun was produced by Sheriff Co. Given that Sheriff is mentioned in the MGS3 credits it's actually quite likely that it was in fact modeled off an airsoft gun. However, the one in the picture is obviously not the one in the game.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 19:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I know that Western Arms did an airsoft version of the MGS3 custom 1911 after the game was released. I wasn't aware of an airsoft gun like that existing before MGS3 was released. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:30, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

== DSR-1 ==

It can also be found in South America when following Naomi's trail, just follow the wrong footsteps from the point where you can also find hand trails. You will hear Naomi crying for help (from a radio) and a sniper will wait for you to come. She has the DSR-1 with her.

== In game pistures ==

Someone needs to post ingame pictures of the guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

this shot gun (http://www.gunsamerica.com/926290644/Guns/Shotguns/Ithaca-Shotguns/SxS/Ithaca_NID_New_Ithaca_Field_Grade.htm) looks alot like the "twin barrel" in the game.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.22|184.35.22.22]] 22:34, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mark 23 Mod 1? ==
''According to the Metal Gear Wiki, the gun they used as a reference in MGS4 is actually an experimental "Phase 2" model that is currently undergoing testing by the US Navy.''

No, actually it says that ''the SOCOM presented in MGS1, MGS2 and MGS4 is in fact the Phase II model handgun submitted for trials in the USSOCOM Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) competition around the later part of 1991, and not the actual production model of the Mk.23 Mod 0''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

::I wrote that -- the differences were the LAM, front serrations on the slide, markings, and the hammer looked different too. By the time the Mk23 was received in May '96, these details bad been changed; both for the military and civilian versions of the pistol. Overall, they're mostly aesthetic changes. -- Orca*

==Screenshots needed==

This page needs someone with enough effort to add pictures for all of these guns. -GM

:I can't do screencaps, but I did add some details about some of the weapons such as where they can be found and such. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:I would agree that a game with this many weapons would be much better with more relevant screencaps, especially ones without watermarks. More relevant information about the guns themselves would also be welcome.

==Why the strange biases towards certain weapons and calibers in this game?==

It seems odd to me why the weapon/caliber selection is so odd in this game. Metal Gear Solid has been one of the best game series to prominently display the real names of every gun in the game, but I have to wonder if some of those companies Kojima got permission from paid him to underplay the abilities of other guns in this game.

For the calibers, it seems mighty odd that the Glock 18c is the only 9x19mm pistol in the entire game. Not even the rebels or militia use older 9x19mm pistols, which is very odd because you'd think that of the vast majority of older pistols that escaped the worldwide mandatory ID lock systems that is mentioned in the game's backstory would be 9x19mm pistols. Not even something like a Beretta M9 is used by the PMC troopers, even though it would be a nice free choice to have in Metal Gear Online.

The game also strangely features 7.62x51mm Battle Rifles where they aren't the most appropriate, such as how the PMCs use the FN SCAR-H even in the confines of urban ruins (as in Act 1) or an intact city (as in Act 3). Only the South American countryside in Act 2 would be an appropriate location for those Battle Rifles in the hands of general troopers. You'd think that Kojima with his weaponry knowledge would give them assault rifles/PDWs/shotguns instead while in urban operations, but that's somehow not the case.

Did H&K and FN pay Kojima to include (and in turn, advertise) their products a great deal in this highly-anticipated and wildly popular game? FN has the Five-SeveN, the P90, the SCAR-H, and the FAL all in the game, while H&K has the SOCOM pistol, the MP5SD2, the XM8, the G3A3, and the HK21E. Colt products and their users by contrast don't get that kind of exposure--Colt M4s are rare, and Colt M16s are completely non-existent in this game. I also think it's telling that the FN P90 has its 50 round magazine, a combat sight, a flashlight and a suppressor, but its competitor, the H&K MP7 has only a red dot sight and is stuck with its 20 round magazine (not its upgraded 40 round magazine) according to this game just can't compete.

Contrary to what some posters on this wiki have said elsewhere, I don't believe this game is biased towards the latest and greatest weapons in general, as several weapons here such as the Vz. 83, the FN FAL carbine, the G3A3, the MAC-10, the Mosin Nagant, the PKM, the RPG-7 and the SVD Dragonuv are quite old.

Kojima definitely spent some time doing weapons research for this game, but did he ever come out with a reason as to why the game chose such odd additions to its arsenal? His personal favourite gun is the Barret M82, something not suited for general combat, so maybe he himself doesn't know as much as the ingame info might imply. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the same arguments could be said about any of the Tom Clancy games like Rainbow Six Vegas and it's whoring worth of H&K weaponry [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

It would seem to me that if HK and FN paid Kojima off to showcase (or "whore out", whichever you reading this prefers) their tech, weapons like the XM8 and SCAR-H wouldn't be seemingly outclassed by the M4. You can kit the M4 out with anything and everything, while the SCAR-H lacks a suppressor and grenade launcher (severely hindering its flexibility) and the only thing the XM8 gets is the grenade launcher. Heck, the M4 is pretty much a CQB, grenadier, and designated marksman carbine all in one package (and I typically use it as such, often foregoing the actual ''sniper rifles'' in the game in long range combat for the M4 equipped with an ACOG). If HK or FN had paid him off, it would seem logical for the M4 to be totally outclassed in-game by both the XM8 and SCAR-H. Not only those points, but the M4 and the 1911s (I say 1911s collectively because cutscenes seem to automatically replace every non-1911 pistol in your inventory with the Operator) are implied to be Snake's signature weapons this time around. If he were paid off, why aren't the Mark 23 and XM8 or Five-Seven and SCAR-H his signature weapons? Also where's the PSG1, the so-called "greatest sniper rifle in the world" (or so HK says)? And I also feel the urge to point out that the HK21E has '''0''' modifications for it as well as a ridiculously slow ROF, which makes the M60E4 ''clearly'' superior to it. Now, I'm not exactly ''defending'' either company here, but it just seems to me that if they had paid Kojima off, the biases pointed out here would be far more extreme. As it stands, I just think Kojima wanted the weapons he likes the most to be the ones players used the most. Regarding the "old" weapons in the game, they may have seen a few years, yes, but FALs, G3s, Dragunovs, PKs, and above all the RPG-7 are so ubiquitous today that we'll be seeing them on modern battlefields, ''especially'' ones in the Middle East, for decades to come. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

:Actually, now that I've spent some time thinking about it, the M4 and M1911 in MGS4 may not actually be Colt products at all. After all, didn't a court decision in real life rule that an M4 is a type of firearm and not a Colt trademark at all? It's kind of like how an "M1911-style pistol" is also a type of pistol, not a Colt trademark which is why there are dozens if not hundreds of kinds of "M1911-style pistols" for sale on the general market today. I wonder if Kojima asked Colt to use their trademarks and got rebuffed for whatever reason, which might have caused him to withdraw the M4s from the PMCs and substitute FN SCAR-Hs until someone told him he could just call it an M4 (though not a Colt M4) and avoid copyright infringement.

:On the issue of customizability, I think the M4's customizability compared to, for instance, the XM8 and FN SCAR-H is a bit of laziness on the part of Kojima. I don't think there's any reason why they couldn't just stick the M14 EBR's suppressor model on the end of the FN SCAR-H or G3A3 and turn those two into suppressed firearms, for instance. They could have also stuck the M4's suppressor model onto the AK-101 or XM8 as well (in my opinion the XM8's integral red dot sight in MGS4 is easier to use than the M4's, being a great deal less claustrophobic than the M4's version). Something like the FN EGLM would have been nice on the SCAR-H (or the SCAR-L had they bothered to give the PMCs assault rifles in urban areas) but unlike the M320 or GP-30, would only have gone on one weapon (unless the SCAR-L was included) and possibly not have been good on the cost-benefit analysis. But my point, that the customizability of many of the weapon systems (where are the PSO-1 scopes for the AN-94 and AK-102, for instance?) is more an artifact of the design decision than the reality of the weapons in question. Of course, even with the full "real-life" customizability, the M4 would still be the only one capable of carrying an underslung shotgun, which I think is unique enough (though I bet the XM8 could have gotten one had it been adopted, and I'm sure one will be designed for the FN SCAR models if it proves itself in the field enough).

:Oh, and one of the reasons why you can snipe with the M4 is because the game over-emphasizes headshots and doesn't implement ballistic physics for bullets. If it did, bullet drop would come into play (especially since the M4's short barrel means that less velocity and energy is imparted to the bullet, resulting in less effective range), moreso with the M4 than the FN SCAR-H or M14 EBR for instance. I think the game would have been more fun if helmets were stronger (for instance, 5 helmet hits from most pistol weapons to kill, 3 helmet hits from 5.56mm weapons to kill someone, or 2 7.62x51mm/PDW ammunition hits, or 1 9x39mm/shotgun slug hit), forcing the player to aim for the exposed face or neck to guarantee a one-hit headshot kill).

:I only mentioned those weapons as "old" so as to defuse claims that Kojima was only focussed on the "latest and greatest."

:It would have been nice if a PSG-1 and FAMAS (both weapons used in MGS1) showed up in the game for old time's sake, but that was not to be. Still, that doesn't resolve the question of why HK's PDW (the MP7A1) is so inferior to FN's PDW (the P90) in this game. Even the wikipedia image of the MP7A1 shows it with a suppressor and 40 round magazine, along with custom optics. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:25, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::Play on a higher difficulty level. The strength of the PMC's helmets varies. On the easiest level, a single 9mm round will punch through. On the highest level, it takes a couple of rounds of 7.62 NATO to punch through. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:50, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

One imagines a general switch from assault rifles back to battle rifles would occur in a world where you might reasonably expect to encounter extremely tough infantry armour or power suits; given the nature of the PMCs as private entities, being "equipped for anything" is probably a selling point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:23, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:Sure, but if you're really "equipped for anything" you'd issue what's needed for the environment. And the PMCs in Act 2 (South America) still use the SCAR-H CQC even though in open countryside that barrel length is more of a liability than anything else. Even the Leftist insurgents are using full-size G3A3s in that stage. In a battle rifle, the shorter the barrel, the more of the cartridge's energy goes to waste as useless muzzle flash and sound. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::To be fair, Pieuvre Armement also have more support weapons than any of the other PMCs (snipers, HMGs, grenade launchers, and a lot of mounted guns) and it looks like they were primarily hired to defend key government structures rather than fight it out in the open. Perhaps with the SCARs they just got a bulk discount, or given it's a private entity it could just be one of the directors like the look of the weapon / someone was impressed by the salesman's spiel / someone was sleeping with someone else / whatever. Out of game, it makes some sense; it means you only need one set of gestures coded for NPC / rifle no matter what level they're in. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:19, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:If Kojima's aim was to make the FN SCAR-H a "this is one of the signature enemy NPC guns" type of thing, then that does make some sense, but that doesn't even cover how many Pieuvre Armement troopers can be found patrolling in the open, sometimes ambushed by Leftist insurgents, or the lack of customizability options for the FN SCAR-H.

:Furthermore, if Kojima and his team could afford the time and money to put the KAC Masterkey on the M4A1 Carbine (an accessory that can be mounted on no other weapon in this game) you could just as easily do the same kind of work and stick an FN EGLM grenade launcher to the SCAR-H (it uses the same swing-out cylinder as does the M320 grenade launcher, so the animations would be largely the same), to say nothing of a suppressor or the LSS underslung shotgun for the XM8. And why not rip off the Mk. 14 Mod 0's suppressor to use on the SCAR-H, G3A3 or the FAL carbine? Before you tell me "they don't have barrel threading," neither does Snake's Operator pistol, his very first suppressed lethal weapon. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:31, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
::Uh dude, Snake's Operator does have a threaded barrel, did you even look at the pics... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:41, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I stand corrected, the thumbnail made the threading blend together into a featureless grey. Regardless, my other points stand. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:55, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I think the idea was to make players want to use the M4 over other weapons (I guess to emphasise it), so the SCAR couldn't be as good as it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:07, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Noteworthy is the fact that the Masterkey in reality doesn't come in a rail-mounted version like is shown in-game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:44, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

== Mk. 23 Mod 0 ==
I just have to ask this; why does Snake like using the H&K Mk. 23? I mean, from everything I've heard/read about them, the USP compact tactical variant is much better, so why doesn't Snake use that?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 16:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

He uses it because the designers wanted him to use it. And if you've ever shot a Mk23 you'd know that it is vastly superior to the entire USP series in every possible way other than weight and weight shouldnt be an issue you're looking for a combat handgun.
-Double Agent M

:Um, yes, weight ''is'' an issue in a combat handgun. Weight is ''always'' an issue when it comes to the weapons and gear used by soldiers. That's why the Mark 23 ''failed'' as a combat handgun and lavished on supply shelves instead of inside holsters like the various 1911 makes and even the entire USP series. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I've been meaning to ask this for a while now on the HK Mk. 23's page, but since this was brought up, I might as well ask it here: why ''was'' the Mk. 23 made so big and bulky in the first place, if its performance could have been replicated in the smaller USP series? It's close in size to the Desert Eagle despite firing a smaller (and more combat-practical) cartridge. Was it to ensure ruggedness, resistance to salt water damage, and reliability? Or something else? It's always puzzled me about this pistol that is one of the signature weapons of the Metal Gear Solid series (making appearances in 1, 2, and 4). Of course, it could be that Kojima just thinks it's a "cool gun" . . . --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Its weight helps counteract recoil, the elongated barrel improves accuracy, and right out of the box it can be fitted with a suppressor and a LEM. It's bulky enough so that if you need to you can beat a man to death with it. It's a fantastic combat handgun but where it loses out to Berettas and Colts is in complexity. Because of it's raw size you cant just whip it around and the controls can take some getting used to. It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm.
-Double Agent M

:Supposedly the USP Compact Tactical can mount a suppressor and Laser Aiming Module, but only has 8 rounds in .45 ACP. Also, as a "Offensive Handgun Weapons System," the SOCOM pistol supposed to be usable as a primary weapon when killing is supposed to be done discreetly, such as many situations in the Metal Gear Solid series. On paper I can see why it's better, but if the hands-on experience of operators deems it as "uncomfortable to carry and use," then their complaints trump the on-paper benefits.

:Of course, "uncomfortable" and "hard to use" is a bit of a relative term, since training and practice can certainly acclimatise someone to almost any well-designed weapons system, but that takes time, money, and perseverance. Given that handguns are hardly a primary weapon system anymore, and the majority those who do professionally use them as such (such as average beat cops) don't train with them to be expert shooters most of the time, I suppose ease of use is a major factor because it's the easier way out instead of spending time to get used to a better-on-paper but less-user-friendly weapon. If "better-on-paper" mattered more, wouldn't the FBI be using Glock 20 pistols instead of Glock 22 pistols? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:48, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with you. :) But I'd still love to get a hold of one and try it for myself. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:: "It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm." <-I love this kind of thing. Sure, a pistol that's a foot and an half long with a suppressor and weighs as much as an empty MP5 is a much better compliment to your primary weapon than it's weight in extra magazines ''for'' that primary weapon. Think you needed to lay off the HK propaganda there, "Agent M." To actually answer the question, they used the Mk23 because it's huge and blocky (same reason Meryl got that 50 AE Deagle), so it's easy for the player to see it in Snake's hands and for the PS1 to render it. Simple as that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:42, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:::I've heard from a lot people who actually own MK 23s and they say that their excellent weapons (and no, it was not "HK propaganda"). - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::::From what I've heard, they're excellent weapons in terms of accuracy (which comes from being gigantic and heavy) but not something you'd want to take into combat; they're too big for a backup weapon and not capable enough as a primary weapon. Also, anyone who drops the cost of a Mk23 on a pistol is going to have thought it was an excellent weapon ''before'' they bought it, otherwise they never would have done so in the first place. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:56, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::::I would buy one, but hey, a four pound .44 Magnum revolver feels like nothing in my hands, and I'm only a medium-sized guy with not much of a build. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:::::Not sure if anyone has noticed this, but is it me, or the MK 23 is listed in the menu as actually much lighter than it is IRL? Maybe that's why it is so popular in the MG universe... --[[User:Researcher|Researcher]] 20:18, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

::::::I always thought the reasoning behind the design and adoption of the Mark 23 initially, was because the weapon could handle ridiculously hot ammunition loads without exploding, something special forces occasionally use, which would normally destroy any "lighter" handgun. Out of the box, the Mk23 alongside the USP line, was one of the few handguns capable of firing .45 Super (not 100% on this) and the reliability of the weapon was insane for the time of its introduction as it could and still can take immense abuse. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 06:41, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

The MK23 is too heavy to be considered a practical firearm, too big to be quickly drawn from the holster if needed, sure the added weight can help reduce recoil, and the good magazine capacity is a plus, but that's really all that it has going for it, it was developed for the Navy SEALS SOCOM unit, and they don't even like it, preferring the smaller and more user friendly SIG SAUER P226, so if an actual military unit thinks the pistol is crap, then quite honestly, it's crap.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 19:10, 9 May 2012 (CDT)
:It's not that much heavier than a 1911. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:48, 16 March 2013 (EDT)
::Yeah, but it's supposed to be issued as a "system" with the suppressor and LAM. With those it's over a foot long and weighs as much as two and a half loaded Glocks (or almost as much as an empty AS Val). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:01, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

== Meryl's Desert Eagle ==

Just how "combat-effective" would the ballistics of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle be? What might the effective range be, and would it regularly penetrate the body armour of the FROG troopers she faces? Or would she be better off with an 40-round MP7A1 (to go with the theme of "biggest to smallest" weapons of the Rat Patrol) when fighting the FROG troopers in Advent Palace and Outer Haven? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

*I've got an Airsoft Desert Eagle (bought many years ago, mind) that came with both barrels, and it's weighted to the point you can see what a bad idea it is: it's ridiculously front-heavy with that barrel extension, and I imagine with a scope as well it'd probably weigh as much as the MP7 anyway. So maybe it could penetrate body armour and maybe it couldn't, but you'd still have better ergo from using a 1911 duct-taped to the head of a banjo. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:21, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Okay, so that Airsoft model exactly duplicates the loaded weight of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle? That's rather interesting. Even if it couldn't penetrate the body armour the FROGs seem to be wearing, would the impact force be enough to inflict blunt trauma on the FROGs, such as broken ribs, concussions, or the like? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:15, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

Well back when I did Airsoft, I played for functionality and being simple. Sure my team and I decked out our guns, but nothing more than red dot sights, and vertical grips. Because it isn't real firearms, we tried to not equip like we would a real weapon because it's not the same thing. Lighter is always better. The less we have to carry, the better. That being said, I would never get an Airsoft Desert Eagle to shoot in games. For fun, yeah. It'll be cool to run around the woods with the 10in barrel and a scope mounted on it, but you wouldn't get any good range with an airsoft pistol anyway, even if it is gas powered. Now a REAL Desert Eagle, I'd get for fun, but that's only after I get my more practical guns first.

Anyway, I think from a character standpoint, Meryl's character is supposed to be a "tough chick" so what's the iconic tough guy gun? A Desert Eagle from the action movies. I don't know if the .50 AE could go through body armor [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Yeah, I just use it for plinking spiders because I have a high ceiling. Bought it because I was a teenager and it was a Desert Eagle, I will make no excuses on that front. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 10:48, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

::lol, I also bought a Airsoft Desert Eagle when I was a teenager and I still have it. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:50, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, living here in Comrade Elizabeth's Glorious People's Republic of Englandstan makes it easy to hang on to it since if I'm reading this correctly I couldn't legally sell it anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

::::lol. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:49, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

:Well I admit before I knew anything about the M16, I was very anti-gun kid in early high school. Then when I got to know guns, I thought the M16 is this Vietnam piece of crap that jams all the time and the AK is the ultimate assault rifle until I grew up and got a more objective view of guns. When buying my first Airsoft, I bought a P90 cause I was a fan of Stargate...then I discovered a P90 Airsoft is useless, inaccurate and has terrible range. So I went and bought an M733, and then realize that you need a longer barrel for range and accuracy and that evolved to my M4 type rifle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:59, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

One more thing; does the reloading style Meryl uses in the fight inside Outer Haven's computer room have a name (where she jams one of her magazines into the crook of her knee while firing with her other hand, before reloading an empty Desert Eagle with the magazine held in her knee)? I see so many adds for shooting schools with patented styles around I have to wonder if this comes from one of them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:11, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Tanegashima rifle ==

Why isn't it on the page?

:Thanks to Evil Tim's hard work, it is now on the page. However, there's something that remains to be investigated; I've heard conflicting reports about whether or not the Tanegashima arquebus will always fire its "divine wind" (translated version of the Japanese word "Kamikaze") tornado if you fire it in the opposite direction of the wind in a singleplayer level. That could be something worth looking into. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:15, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::I'll check up on that; I'd just heard it was a one-third chance per shot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:51, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::Nope, nothing to do with the wind direction, I tried with and against the wind, and in the end it just went off at random like usual. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:17, 3 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see it was just a rumour then. Still, I'm puzzled as to why you didn't take a screenshot highlighting the extreme silliness of the weapon; it would have been worth a chuckle to see a screenshot of PMCs caught in the tornado flying in a spiral while dropping far more items than they could ever carry in real life while collecting their "frequent flier miles."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:57, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well, I accidentally selected Solid Normal rather than Big Wuss Easy, and it's hard enough getting the Tanegashima to do its thing normally, nevermind trying to check how it's affected by the direction of the wind while being shot at. I'm doing enough stupid things to burn through rations as it is :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:58, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see; I guess not all of us have the time to learn how not to get shot up less in this game (here's a tip; going prone or crawling is the best way to use your Octocamo). Would have been nice to see PMCs flying in a big spiral anyhow on this wiki. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:43, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well sure, I can be pretty sneaky when I'm not doing stupid things like seeing if I can get a Gekko to throw a grenade at me. Same as I'm trying to avoid wearing the Octocamo hood even though it's good for your camo index, because it also makes Snake look really stoopid. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Someone needs to finish this page ==

This page is how old and no one has finished it? Someone needs to start doing it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:17, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Well I don't have this game and it's a chore to get all the screenshots second hand [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I've got a much better capture device than I used to, so I could probably do this at some stage; the main problem is I'd have to record it first (since the software with the Dazzle crashes every time I take a screenshot and BSODs the entire computer if I try to take more than one); I'll have a crack at it next time I'm off work. Don't want to just stand in a corner looking at the same thing for every gun, that makes for dull page. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

:Please do. Stealth camo would be useful to take screenshots of weapons in the hands of NPCs (such as the MP7 or the like). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

::Still on this. It's going to take a while before I have time (especially since I'll need to record some of those billion hours of cutscenes), but I haven't forgotten. I'll probably get Twin Snakes and cap the whole series, since doing PS1 MGS1 without first-person aim mode for caps would be a bit pointless. "Look, Snake has a FAMAS! Down there in his hands...oh just click on the damn image and press your nose right up to the screen." Only thing I really need from that is a comparison shot of the Abrams, since the original game's one had two M2 Brownings instead of one. Also I've got an MGS2 trailer somewhere showing Snake with a FAMAS, so I'll have to add that to the 2 page. I'm hoping I can find a picture of the wooden prop version of Fortune's railgun that they built for motion capture. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:31, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Good to know. I'm looking forward to a full version of this page. I would have finished the MGS2 page myself, except that the PC version I have (the official KONAMI port) is somewhat poorly optimized, with some textures missing or improperly rendered (and what do you mean, KONAMI, that we can't use the mouse to aim in FPV or duplicate the pressure sensitive button functions from a PS2 controller with a keyboard?!). Also, the FAMAS in MGS2 is only usable on the demo version of MGS2 (though it does show up in some cutscenes in the Plant chapter for some strange reason). Did they reuse the MGS2 Demo FAMAS for the Twin Snakes? Perhaps you can find out. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:54, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, that'd be worth checking. I heard GIAT (it was still GIAT back then) got very precious about their intellectual property after they realised people wanted to put the FAMAS in games (they're the same about model companies and the LeClerc, Tamiya had to stick their logo and "officially endorsed" on the box of their LeClerc kit) and I think that's why Konami pulled the FAMAS from 2 and never had it turn up again even in 4. Probably they couldn't say no to using it in a remake since they'd already said yes the first time. I've still got the demo of 2 (only reason anyone bought ''Zone of the Enders'', after all) and the FAMAS isn't in that either; it goes from the start of Tanker to the end of the boss fight with Olga, and only gives you the M9 and USP. It was only ever in the early trailers showing Snake on the Tanker. I heard there's some other changes like the guys in the Warhead Storage room using ring airfoil rounds rather than just instakilling you with a radiation leak if you were spotted. Also, you didn't miss anything with the pressure sensitive buttons, trying to half-hold the fire button to aim a rifle in first person was terrible. Apparently the "Tanegashima" is a Japanese copy of a Portugese arquebus design (sayeth Wikipedia, anyway), so I'll have to add that to the page too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:19, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Well, copyright is a sticky situation (go look at one of my earlier comments here and notice how there are no Colt products in this game, despite the presence of an M4A1 Carbine and an M1911). Ubisoft got around it because the FAMAS appears in Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by its real name, so why not MGS4? And I was wrong; the FAMAS is coded within the MGS2 demo, but it is only accessible [http://youtu.be/MxfMCXcpGx8 via a code]. And actually there are a few uses for the pressure-sensitive buttons in MGS2--without them you bang your head against a locker ventilation grille when trying to look out, alerting any nearby enemies. You also can't aim an assault rifle without the pressure-sensitive controls, which made controlling them on the PC next to impossible. Another problem is you can't lower a pistol without firing it if you don't let go of the aiming button gently (I got around this on the PC version by unequipping my weapon). Finally, the distance you throw grenades is determined by how hard you press the pressure-sensitive button (but they were almost useless anyway since throwing a frag or flashbang grenade automatically causes an alert upon detonation and frags have a small damage radius). All this made for a frustratingly bad PC port, which is why I caved in and got the PS2 version afterwards. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:20, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

Well, made a start before realising I'm going to have to crop the borders off every image by hand. :( Ah well, they're just placeholders anyway just so we can get rid of the IGN watermarks and have actual game images. For now they can keep the borders and I'll replace them all when I do this page properly. I hope you appreciate my sacrifice, I had to uninstall Vanquish to get these. Stupid 40 gig PS3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:35, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Good work so far Tim. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:40, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

*Ok, I'll put up the explosives later today (since we don't have them at all). I'm fairly sure the railgun qualifies as reasonably believable; it was actually built as a physical object (a wooden MoCap prop) and looks like an XM25 that's eaten its Wheaties. And then everyone else's Wheaties. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:29, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Anyone remember where the PMCs with standalone Masterkeys show up? I think it's somewhere in Act 2, but I can't remember if you have to cause an alert or if they're just ahead of where I stopped recording (partway through Confinement Facility). Also, don't worry, the shots aren't all going to be from Act 2. Also added a spoiler warning since, well, I can hardly ''not'' have a shot of A Certain Person holding the Patriot, and the fourth Act being on Shadow Moses is kind of a spoiler too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:There's definitely at least one in the Confinement Facility, check out about 10:50 of this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg87rbI3CXU#t=10m50s], there's a guard with one who shows up with one at the right edge of the screen (pretty sure he always respawns there with a Masterkey). --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:27, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::Naw, that's an XM320, he's one of the pair I've got a shot of in that section. You can hear a "phut" rather than a shotgun blast when he fires. But I know there's people with standalone Masterkeys somewhere, because I remember being puzzled at why on earth you would create such a thing. (edit) Ah, MG Wiki says there's one at the gate of Vista Mansion. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Also, considering all the shit that fits inside Metal Gear Mk. 2 (50 Stingers, 50 Javelins, 50 LAWs, a Barrett, a railgun the size of a pony, etc) why does it never occur to Snake to hide inside it himself? I know they kind of joked about it with Snake being able to pocket a drum can that's bigger than he is, but still. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:36, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

It's called a "Hyperspace Arsenal." I would be all for a realistic mode that forced you to carry guns that are too big right from the beginning of a mission rather than have them delivered by the mini-Metal Gear, or have you collect them after a period of time after "requesting" them at a cache location dropped off by Drebin, or else only be able to transfer/launder/buy ammo just after meeting Drebin in cutscenes. Still, that wouldn't address the other realism issues this game has, such as how the NPCs are indestructible--shouldn't shooting them with .50 BMG weapons or high explosives blow off limbs or reduce them to ludicrous gibs? And what about the octocamo system; wouldn't the human eye only be realistically fooled if Snake was hiding in foliage or else, quite some distance away, lest the enemies spot his outline and start shooting at Snake?

In any case, do you think you could also include tidbits on which guns need to be laundered and which don't need to be? It'd be a nice tidbit, since the entry already includes which guns are available in multiplayer and which aren't. I'm very much looking forward to seeing more great screenshots of this game's guns--do you think it'd be possible for you to equip stealth camo and enter First Person view so we can see NPCs with holding their guns up close?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:06, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm afraid I don't have stealth camo (I can never resist firing LAWs at Strykers :() but I tend to prefer wider shots with things actually going on in them; just focusing right in on the gun makes the page rather dull to look through, IMO (I ''hate'' those CoD page images with everything cropped out but one corner of the screen; just imagine if you took the shot of Dirty Harry holding his revolver in the "do you feel lucky?" scene and cut out everything but the revolver). Also, I'm fairly sure the player and world models for weapons are exactly the same in this game. Still, it's not that hard to get close when you're recording video rather than taking individual screenshots, and it's even easier to get close to the totally broken Raven Sword AI in Act 3. Plus you can get great views of almost all the PMC weapons in cutscenes anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:53, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I didn't mean cropping the images so that only the guns are visible; I was just saying that with Stealth camo you could get within punching (or kissing) distance of the various NPCs in the game so you could get good pics of them holding their weapons without the annoying black-screen parts from scopes or the HUD marks in the centre of the screen if you use Snake's binocular's or the mini-Metal Gear's camera view. Also, could you please please please make a screenshot of the FROG firing her DSR-1 at Big Mama followed by the latter's "I'm fine" despite not wearing any body armour? I find it one of the more unintentionally hilarious parts of the game. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:15, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'll be sure to get that, yes. Though for me the funniest sequence was the part before the "guns of the Patriots" part, where the US Army were pointing guns at Liquid Ocelot's boat and making clicking noises for so long it became ridiculous. Of course the Foxdie scene was funnier, but probably intentional (Snake and Liquid do the "Fox..." "...Die" bit, Liquid Ocelot jumps up and runs away cackling ridiculously and Snake responds by falling over). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Heh heh, it's funny how after the "Guns of the Patriots" scene, Drebin's prices fall flat on their faces with a permanent 50% discount until the end of the game. Of course, that raises the question about why Drebin's prices never go up; wouldn't the complete lock-out of ID-locked firearms mean that the services of gun launderers like Drebin would be more in demand than ever (resulting in a huge price increase), even if just to keep the Rebels who use naked guns from killing all the ID-locked gun users? It's just another entry in the long list of this game's realism problems. And of course, the first FOXDIE scene is another manifestation of how wrong it was to let Kojima direct the game, since he's so firmly stuck in MGS1's shadow the plot of MGS4 is so firmly stuck in the first game's mold. Of course, that's got nothing to do with the weaponry in the game, but I'm still looking forward to this page's completion nonetheless. By the way, have you seen Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN!" ability in Metal Gear Online yet?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:47, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:I must admit I've never played MGO. As for Kojima, I think he was at his best in MGS3 when he was making a tribute to something he loved (the old spy movies that had inspired the series in the first place, with their cool gadgets and ridiculous villians) and he's at his worst when he's trying to force out a game he seems to have regarded as his obligation; I remember that he didn't really want to be involved in 4 and only came back on board after the fans raised a stink about his being absent. He strikes me as a lot like Lucas, who was great when he was making a tribute to the old-fashioned sci-fi he grew up with and hideous when he was left making something he didn't really care for except as a way to make money. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:57, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

Funny that you mentioned George Lucas. I have to wonder whether or not Kojima took some inspiration from Lucas when he decided to make his newest, completely over-referenced MacGuffin: nanomachines that do almost everything, from track biological functions to serve as ID keys, even form the basis for mind control or emotional manipulation. Kind of reminded me of Lucas' "midi-chlorians," since the two of them are both blood-borne squiggly things. Oh well, the fans, like everyone else, don't always know how what they want isn't necessarily what they need. And even the greatest of us can succumb to "Creator's Conceit," whereupon one starts believing in the delusion that "because I made this best-selling piece of media, I can change it however I want, heedless of the needs of believability, plausibility, realism or even my own previous work." Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN" ability in Metal Gear Online can be seen in full force [http://youtu.be/XM7yc5Gf_OU here]. You should give Metal Gear Online a try if you have the money; its training mode is great for taking pictures of the unique characters and their weapons, and it is the only mode where you can use the ballistic shield, or hear the various multiplayer characters do their Rambo impressions while firing an M60E4. Once again, a hearty thank you for your hard work. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:26, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think I'm immune to stupid depictions of nanomachines after playing the two ''Deus Ex'' games, expecially the second one where you apparently have a nanoforge in every weapon that makes the relevant ammo type out of a universal base material ''as you fire''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Also, I'm trying to remember: I know there's no flashback of Vulcan Raven, but wasn't there one of Sniper Wolf that showed her PSG-1 at one point? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:59, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

::The various flashbacks in Act 4 can be found [http://youtu.be/81A3yb_FATg here] and [http://youtu.be/aznWCpBYkKQ here]. You can check those out at your leisure. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:50, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

:::The links you're posting don't work [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

::Pardon me, they're fixed now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:13, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Right, that's me out for today, getting sleepy. Got a lot more caps to get off this Act 1 video, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:13, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think if you see Sniper Wolf's PSG-1 it's part of Crying Wolf's death scene or Naomi's (I seem to recall there's an X button prompt when Otacon is getting upset about that whole thing where everyone he displays the slightest affection for dies instantly), which that doesn't have. Regardless, been a little busy, but should have some new caps up soon. I'm trying to get everything with a Browning M2, so IIRC I still need the Stryker MGS from Act 2, the Humvee in Act 3 and the derelict M1 tank in the hanger in Act 4. I'll finally be able to take that "Incomplete" down once I get a shot of Rex, Ray or one of ''Missouri's'' Phalanxes. Also might see if I can ID those two giant cannons on Liquid's boat, at least in a caption. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:10, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was right, you ''do'' have an X button flashback there. There's also a painting of Big Boss holding his old Mark 22 in Big Mama's church, because it makes sense for one of those to be there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:12, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Having never had a chance to really pay attention to the Vamp / Raiden fight until now, I must admit I laughed my ass off at the part where Raiden has both arms pinned to his back and so blocks Vamp's arm and then throws him using only his teeth. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:36, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Ok, going to be redoing all these caps soon (seen [[Dark Sector]] for why, comparing the new shots with the ones of the Spectre and G36; I've now got an official Sony component cable, so the red after-image from my third-party cable on the [[Bodycount]] page is gone). Going to be kind of "fun" trying to get the same shots all over again, I'll probably be updating all the basic weapon images tomorrow or so and then starting on recording the levels. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:53, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

:The things we do for this wiki . . . well, I'm glad you're willing to get more screenshots over something that isn't very visible on the thumbnails. Are you talking about the red-tinged edges that can be seen on some of your screenshots on the Bodycount page? That's known as chromatic abberration, but I can't see much of it on the MGS4 screenshots myself. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:01, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::Naw, the red was just why I was holding out for the Sony cable, that's why it isn't on the Dark Sector images (I now have it). The reason I'm going to replace these images is they're taken using a much lower-resolution capture device than the one I now have (a Pinnacle Dazzle rather than a Hauppage HD-PVR). You'll see the difference. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:45, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

OK, here's the difference:

[[Image:MGS4-1911Cus.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:MGS4-M1911Cus-HQ.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I'll resize the rest to 1280x720 or so rather than all of them being as big as that one, it's kinda unnecessary when they're only shown on the page at 600px anyway. The weird effect at full resolution is how the pause menu is actually supposed to look, to those not familiar with MGS4. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:50, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:YES. Better resolution is ALWAYS welcome. Looking forward to seeing more MGS "gun porn" in HD, as well as seeing some other issues resolved (such as whether the M10 and M60E4 are closed-bolt firearms in this game or their original open-bolt versions, just how Old Snake holds the M10 in a two-handed fashion with no foregrip, suppressor, or strap to put his offhand on, etc.). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:01, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::If Snake is holding the MAC-10 in a two-handed grip without the aid of an foregrip, suppressor, or strap, he would hold it in a Weaver-stance or a CAR-stance. I saw a screen shot of him using the MAC-10 and he held it in a Weaver-stance like a handgun while utilizing the stock, which makes good practical sense. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:28, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:I see. Regardless, I'm surprised that Kojima didn't slap on a "modernizing conversion" for the MAC-10 in this game, such as made available by [http://www.max-11.com/ Lage Mfg], which in short makes the gun much easier to handle by increasing the length of the barrel and handguard to add space for rails (and their accessories), a foregrip and folding buttstock, along with a mechanism that reduces the rate of fire to 600 RPM from 1100 RPM. This sort of conversion kit would essentially turn the MAC-10 into a close competitor for the HK UMP, except that this "MAX-10" version would be easier to instinctively reload since the magazine goes in the pistol grip. Too bad that the only .45 SMG in this game just isn't that good; whatever else can be said about the MAC-10, ergonomics were clearly not emphasized in its original design. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:45, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

::From what I know, the MAC-10 has inferior reliability compared to the UZI and pretty much any other SMG design. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

Just a couple of new images tonight, going to do the rest of this video tomorrow. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:44, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and here's Otacon explaining why the AK jammed:

[[Image:MGS4-Otaconsez.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Also, there was apparently more than one cartridge in the chamber. That might have been a problem too."]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:48, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:I think that's pretty cool he explains what possibly happened to the weapon, you don't get that in very many games. But it still doesn't explains ''how'' this happened to an AK, I could expect that from an AR, but an AK? Like I said on the page, Snake must have REALLY bad luck. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:25, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::Well, he's not the only one, I noticed at least one of the rebels struggling with the charging handle of his AK during the same sequence. It must just be ''really'' bad ammo. Maybe it's special ''Far Cry 2'' ammo made from blasting caps and dynamite. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:36, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::I think you just solved it mate. ;) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:20, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

Had a few problems with my footage being blurry (not in the shots I actually uploaded, mind) which I think is my old PC. A suitably beefy PC should be winging it's way to me in the next couple of weeks. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:45, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:I've already had my new beefed-up PC a couple of weeks. :D Now I'm counting down the days for BF3. >:B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:09, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

::Then let us do as men have done for centuries and compare the lengths of our, um, computers. Mine's going to be an i7 2600K overclocked to 4.6 GHz, SLI 2 x 1,536 meg GeForce cards, 16 gigs RAM, 120 gig SSD + 3 terabyte data drive. I imagine it'll just be able to scare Crysis into running. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:05, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot requests ==

I know Evil Tim's busy, but this might be a good opportunity to let him know what screenshots might be appropriate to showcase each weapon.
*Five-seveN pistol: Old Snake commits "sexual assault" at gunpoint by holding up a FROG trooper with her own pistol while patting her down for items, along with the "crotch grab" move.
*MAC-10/G18C: Old Snake tries out for a movie of "Bonnie and Clyde" while performing a drive-by shooting from Big Mama's motorcycle.
*M4 Custom: For some reason, Old Snake has taken up the habit of shooting this carbine while holding it sideways.
*Shansi Type 17: Big Mama gets her awesome on by shooting up some Dwarf Gekko drones with her Type 17 pistol.
*MP7A1: Isn't there a PMC in Act 2 carrying this weapon who is distracted by a Playboy Magazine?
Sometimes funny screenshots make entries on this wiki all the more entertaining to read. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

*Might try that
*Almost certainly going to do something like that
*When does he hold it sideways, again?
*Yes
*Yes

Also, totally going to show how you can kill a Gekko with the SVD. Just a note: you don't have to call him Old Snake in every caption. The game only calls him that occasionally and he's "Snake" the rest of the time, and it's not like this is MGS1 and there's two people potentially called "Snake" (even in that case, they always call him Snake and his brother Liquid, so there's only minimal potential for confusion). I could see there being some issues with what to call Big Boss in 3, but this guy is still Snake. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:06, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:I call him "Old Snake" because that's the name above his lifebar, and because that name clearly refers to him in the MGS4 time period. Of course, if you really want to be pedantic, it could be argued that Liquid Snake and Solid Snake should have called each other Liquid and Solid instead of Liquid and Snake (I think the latter combination was chosen because it sounds less silly). If you prefer to just call him Snake in the article, feel free to change that part pack. And Old Snake holds his M4A1 carbine sideways once when engaging the Pieuvre Armement PMCs who are taking Naomi away after headshotting Vamp. Another US Marine aboard the Missouri holds his M4A1 Carbine while trembling with fear as the Dwarf Gekkos execute a boarding action right outside the Missouri's bridge. That's all I can remember right now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:37, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and if you want to show the Vulcan Cannons on the Missouri battleship, shouldn't you include the dramatic close-up shot of its CIWS cannons firing like hell trying to intercept the swarm of anti-ship missiles launched from Outer Haven? The one available now only shows the CIWS cannons in a distant shot. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:58, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:The one you're thinking of is a rather dull closeup of the installation from the ''rear'', I wanted this one because it shows the main guns and looks awesome. The Phalanx shots are exclusively taken to show off ''Missouri'', the installations can piss off. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:15, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Incidentally

[[Image:MGS4-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Ray should not have been allowed to use the hydrocutter as it's opening attack. >:( Also, just noticed that half the "Street Fighter" attacks use the beak to grab Ray, even though it's where Snake is sitting and at least two of them would clearly kill him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Question ==

Do real suppressors degrade like in MGS3 and MGS4? I think not, or at least it's ''very'' exaggerated in these game. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:50, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:old style wipe suppressors do degrade over time. Maxim type supressors and supressors designed after the 1960s don't degrade. You will have to clean them out after combat load but with the lenght of most computer games it should not be an issue as there isn't the time for junk to build up to the point where the supressor will fail. Basically if you take the time to clean you equipment every so often things should't go bad. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:32, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thank you. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:45, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:Yep, suppressors in this game are another problem with its realism. The wipe-style suppressors in MGS3 would indeed degrade, sometimes after as low as 5 to 10 shots. Modern suppressors can last for thousands of rounds of semiautomatic fire, but less if fully-automatic fire is used.
:In reality, detachable suppressors fitted to weapons with supersonic ammunition (Drebin doesn't sell subsonic versions of normally supersonic ammunition, such as 5.56mm NATO, 7.62mm NATO, etc.) would not be as stealthy as depicted, especially at the ranges you fight at in this game. Try dropping a phone book from a height of 5 feet (or 150 cm in metric) onto a hard floor that is not covered by a rug or carpet--that's close to what even the best suppressors can do. At most of the ranges you shoot at in this game, real people would definitely notice (if not necessarily know where you are) and would immediately trigger a caution phase unless your first shot killed someone who was all by his lonesome. Suppressors can't deal with the sonic boom caused by supersonic ammunition, either, which can alert people. This is why the quietest suppressed weapons use subsonic ammunition (such as .45 ACP, or Russian 9x39mm ammo, etc.), or a special integral suppressor (like that on the MP5SD2) that slows supersonic ammunition down to subsonic speeds. Even that doesn't do anything for the clacking noises caused by the cycling of a (semi)automatic weapon's action, which is why the tranquilizer pistols in MGS2, 3, and 4 all use slide locks to eliminate that.
:Another problem is that suppressors, by slowing down the hot gas from fired rounds, cause a gun to overheat faster (because the slowed gas has more time to impart its heat to the weapon). Again, this is generally not a problem unless you forgo all fire discipline and keep firing in full auto; then you might have reason to detach an overheated suppressor and put a new one in place. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:08, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
Last time I helped put rounds through a MP5 with a detachable suppressor it took a bit for the suppressor to cool enough that it could be removed from the barrel. Of course we put 120 rounds through it with mostly magazine dumps as we were just testing the guns function.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:36, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Thanks guys. Well a suppressor is not meant to suppress gun fire so people in the same room can't hear it, it's meant so people in the whole building and in the city outside the building can't hear it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:46, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:Oops, forgot to mention that another way to remove the "clack-clack" sounds of a firearm's action (which can be louder than a suppressed gun's muzzle blast if the suppressor is good enough), aside from slide locks. Any type of round cycling that needs to be manually operated (such as bolt action, pump-action, etc.) will eliminate that sound. Too bad the DSR-1 couldn't be suppressed in this game; combined with its bolt action you'd get a very powerful, quiet, and lethal counterpart to the Mosin Nagant tranq rifle. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:45, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

== Just checking something ==

Of the M4, Drebin says "The barrel's free floating, of course." Now, you can see from the shot of Snake firing that even the ''handguard'' isn't free-floating, but isn't it a contradiction in terms for a direct impingement rifle to have a free-floating barrel since the barrel ''has'' to be touching something other than the receiver, namely the gas tube? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:08, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:I hear of free-floating barrels on AR-15s all the time, I think "free-floating" means nothing but the receiver (and the gas tube) is holding the barrel in place. At least, that's what I know. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:36, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
It could be a bit of "Kojima nonsense" that snuck its way into the script (kind of like how Drebin claims the PMCs love to use the M4A1 Carbine, when in fact none of them do, and the game gives you the impression that Drebin is just foisting off old, obsolete stock onto Old Snake). After all, are we really supposed to believe that Fatman from Metal Gear Solid 2 built his first atomic bomb(!) at age 10? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:56, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
::I guess it could also be a translation error of some kind, since there's a few of those knocking around; I've just got to the first case of them mangling a symmetrical sentence by having Naomi alternate "fate" and "destiny" rather than just saying "it" the second time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Or it could be Kojima's notoriously inconsistent stance on the realism/unrealism scale, especially when it comes to weaponry. First in MGS2 they let us render any enemy limb useless in a single lethal weapon hit (a feature that never returned), but in that same game they let us use the Stinger Missile Launcher indoors (even though that kind of weapon would cause a cave-in or flooding in the Plant chapter). And now they ask us to believe that in some scenes, professional PMC operators can't hit Snake when he's in spitting distance (such as after he shoot Vamp in the head in South America). That scene might have worked if he was hiding some distance away using Octocamo, though. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:07, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and one more thing about the M4A1 in this game; why would you need to have a free-floating barrel on an automatic carbine? Wouldn't it just be simpler to insert a longer barrel, which would increase both accuracy and the bullet's effective range? Or, if you have the resources, you could always use better rounds (like the real life Mk 262) which have both longer effective range and accuracy than the standard 5.56mm NATO rounds in service now. That speech of Drebin's just makes him look like a "used car salesman"--it reeks of hucksterism. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:04, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown pistol ==

Any idea what this is in Johnny Sasaki's leg holster? USP, maybe?

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:26, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, even I'm a bit stumped, it's almost featureless. o_0 - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:12, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was going by the features it doesn't have, more. It's got a horizontal base to the grip while holstered, which rules out any 1911-based pistol, but it doesn't have a beavertail bigger than the one on an actual beaver, so it can't be a Desert Eagle. It's obviously not any pistol that's available in the game unless it's a very small Mark 23, and a very small Mark 23 is called a USP. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:25, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, am I hideously mistaken or is the Mk. 46 Mod 1 actually a Mod 0? The handguard doesn't look right for a Mod 1. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:01, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:Based on what the model looks like it could be a featureless USP or P226 (it's too small for a Mark 23), but without the said "features" it's almost impossible tell what it is. It could also be just a generic "holster stuffer". :P (P.S. what's the deference between the Mk. 46 Mod 1 and the Mod 0, I've only seen the Mod 0?) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:59, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::The forearm of the Mod 1 lacks the rail at the 12 o'clock position (FN Herestal has pictures of the Mod 1 on their website [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF055&gid=FNG008]). There's probably other differences, but either Google is failing me, or there's no info about on the Mod 1 upgrades on the entire internet. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:48, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:::[http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF059&gid=FNG008&mid=FNM0039 FN USA] says "improved receiver pins, a feed tray with retention pawls and a vented handguard with improved heat shield and three MIL-STD 1913 rails." Now, I've checked the reload animation and you can see it's got a 12-o-clock rail on the handguard, so it's a Mod 0. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

::Also, of those two it'd have to be the USP, the SIG would have two screws visible holding the grips on. What I can tell you is the shape is intentional; it's ''not'' the same model used in PMC holsters; the ones I checked have a diagonal base to the grip and therefore are obviously supposed to be a GSR. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:34, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

Just to add these:

[[Image:MGS4-FROG-Holster.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FROG holster weapon, probably Five-seveN]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PMC Holster weapon, clearly GSR.]]
[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another angle on Johnny's weapon, and one where they seem to have forgotten to add that delightful skidmark to his trousers, too.]]

Incidentally, ID'ing this one will take us up to 76 weapons with only one not ID'd (the land mine). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:25, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

But it doesn't have the finger tip-shaped slots at the mag well to be a USP ether... In the last pic of Johnny the pistol now looks like a stubby Desert Eagle because of the way the grip looks. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:53, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Well, there should be some closer shots of it when I finally get off my ass and get around to recording and capping stage 3, there's a lot of closeups of the Rat Patrol members at the end of that one that should settle it if it actually is something. Interestingly, Meryl also has that holster as part of her uniform, but hers is empty (Deagle the first has a horizontal chest holster). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Think this is the best shot you're likely to get. Now, I'm going to bed, I just spent hours recording the entire third Act and at least half of the fourth and it's 3am. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:57, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::In more ways than one. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:33, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:Looks kinda like a Desert Eagle with the beavertail milled down, wow this is hard. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:27, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::Seems it's actually a Mark 23, since Raiden's character weapon (aside from a heap of pointy things) is a Mark 23, and he has the same holster. Holster looks to be very similar to [http://airsoftbb4u.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=402 one of these]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:10, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::You could be right, but still looks off from a Mark 23, I see a metal tang on the grip like the Desert Eagle. Err. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:04, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Might just be a mistake in the model. It's certainly supposed to be a Mark 23 (it's Raiden's only gun in multi), but since they never draw them (unlike FROGs and PMCs, who do draw their sidearms if they're disarmed), there was probably no obligation to actually put a drawable gun in there. I can't remember if Johnny pulls out his sidearm when they're defending the door or not, I'll have to see if they'll actually settle it for us or not. Otherwise we'll just have to say it's an inaccurate Mark 23. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:09, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Johnny does use his sidearm there. He uses a GSR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)

== Note about the M4 and the "big PMCs" ==
They ''did'' use the M4 in early builds of the game [http://ranger.gamebanana.com/img/ss/srends/thm__2863-.jpg] [http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/God-of-Reapers/metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-p-1.jpg], but it was changed to the Mark 17 at some point for some unknown reason. Snake even got ''his'' M4 by taking it from a PMC in an early trailer. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)
:Regarding the Patriot, wouldn't it fall under the same hideously ill-defined "PDW" label as the XM8 Compact? It does rather seem that PDW just stands for whatever your marketing department wants it to: HK definately called the XM8 compact a PDW in sales fluff, and invented the term because they didn't want to call their compact MP5K the MP5 Kurz Kurz as far as I can tell. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:14, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:On the subject of the M4: the article mentions that the handguard isn't free floating like Drebin says. However, I'm pretty sure the rail is carbine length KAC URX which is free floating. Also, the MP5K-PDW isn't a compact MP5K; it's an MP5K with a stock added. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 09:01, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

::Look at the shot of Snake firing the M4 into the camera and you can see there's a circular cap on the front of the rail handguard which contacts the barrel: a KAC URX doesn't have such a cap, which is why it's free-floating while this one isn't. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:42, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

::Also the delta ring between the rail system and the receiver. URX mates with the receiver to form an uninterrupted top rail for optics. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:56, 24 November 2011 (CST)

PDW is indeed something of a term that is a bit too nebulous. I've even heard the term applied to the select-fire variant of the Mauser C96 being described as a PDW since it could mount a shoulder stock and used ammo that was "armour piercing." Still, the question I raised earlier on this page as to the point of mounting a free-floating handguard onto an M4A1 carbine remains--isn't a free-floating barrel mainly for sniper or designated marksmen weapons, not for CQB full-auto weapons? And wouldn't greater long-distance accuracy be achieved more simply by using a longer barrel or enhanced ammunition? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:With regard to free-float rails: there's more to it than just accuracy. Keeping the rails from contacting the barrel means that any accessories mounted on the weapon will be affected less by the vibrations that occur during firing. This helps keep vertical grips and the like from coming loose, and any optics/lasers/IR designators mounted on the forearm will have an easier time retaining their zero. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:12, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

Well, that does make a bit more sense, but it still sounds like the sort of thing a National Army wouldn't issue--though it wouldn't be out of place among civilians or Private Military Contractors. Don't National Armies train for accurate semiautomatic fire whenever possible from anything that isn't an LMG, and if you fire enough fully-automatic rounds to affect the zero of accessories mounted on the handguard, doesn't that mean you're doing something wrong? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== XM8 Compact ==

Why is the XM8 Compact under the SMG/PDW section? PDW or not, 5.56x45mm should go to the Assault rifles. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I was considering moving it to go with the Patriot. I'll do that tomorrow assuming someone doesn't beat me to it, and I'll remove "PDW" from the other heading since it's such a vague, useless class of weapons that seems to include everything gun company marketing departments feel like including from SMGs firing pistol rounds to compact assault rifles. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm not sure about that; I think PDW is still useful to describe select-fire SCHV (small caliber, high velocity) two-handed firearms using proprietary rounds purpose-built for armour-piercing properties, like the 5.7x28mm, the 4.6x30mm, the 6.5x25mm, etc. that aren't (machine) pistols. Having said that, I would agree about how the label can be abused (the MP5K-PDW should have just received an "A" designation such as the MP5KA6 or the like). Still, I have to wonder if Akiba was given the XM8 Compact to show that Meryl "wears the pants" in their relationship--at a 9-inch barrel length, the XM8 (ultra)compact carbine is shorter than Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle, which is 10 inches long.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:08, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:The trouble I have with the PDW label is either (a) it just means SMG so there's no point including it or (b) it includes all the stupid things that are called PDWs but aren't SMGs. Sure, the SCHV rounds aren't all used by pistols so not all PDWs are ''technically'' SMGs, but all PDW rounds are dimensioned like pistol cartridges and most have pistols designed and / or manufactured to shoot them anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing is, if you really want to be pedantic, an SMG is really just a select-fire pistol-caliber carbine. In my view the PDW label is still useful for a narrower class of weapons than most users of the label think, and should only be used if the weapon meets all of the following characteristics.

*Proprietary PDW rounds are designed from the ground up as armour-piercing rounds (piercing Level IIIA ballistic armour or lower), and resemble miniaturized assault rifle ammunition (by virtue of its dimensions and spitzer shape) rather than traditional pistol ammunition. So by this definition the PP-2000 would not be a PDW since it's still using 9x19mm rounds, just in an armour-piercing configuration.
*A stock and foregrip must be present on the weapon for it to be considered a PDW, since both simplify aiming (which is very important in a CQB situation). So a select-fire Five-seveN or C96 are still not PDWs (instead, they are just armour-piercing machine pistols) since it lacks the ability to have both of those features. An MP5K PDW has both a stock and foregrip but doesn't meet the first requirement, and is therefore just a compact SMG with a folding stock and small foregrip.
*A true PDW must have select-fire or fully-automatic fire capability, otherwise it just becomes a fancy carbine like the PS90.

You have to admit that PDW is a more convenient acronym than something like SCHV SMG or the like. We could just go with something like "AP (armour-piercing) SMG" but that would bring stuff like the PP-2000 back into the mix. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:27, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

::Actually, an SMG is a super-light machine gun firing a pistol round: remember the category comes from the first world war before the concept of an intermediate round even existed. And the problem is most users of the label include most companies that say their weapons are PDWs; there's such a huge number of bad examples and so few good ones that it isn't really worth using it, IMO. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

:My google-fu's rather weak right now, but aside from H&K marketing derivatives of the MP5 and XM8 as PDWs I don't know of companies that are marketing SMGs or compact assault rifles with the PDW label, when in fact they don't meet the requirements I outlined earlier. Maybe you could point me in the right direction? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 23:32, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::Wikipedia says the Jatimatic was marketed as a PDW back when HK invented the term, and since the 5.7mm has realised its friends would still like it if it came out as a pistol round anything that fires that is basically a subgun in the normal sense of the term. Magpul's PDR Shirow-gun fires a full-sized 5.56mm, the Chinese QCW-05 fires the 5.8x21mm pistol round, the VBR-Belgium PDW fires the 7.92x24mm pistol round...It's fair to say most things called PDWs don't qualify in the strictest sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:00, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:The "Shirow-gun"? And here I was thinking firearms designed for Ghost in the Shell at least made some sense, even if their service pistol caliber choice was a little iffy on the stopping power side (BTW, the Seburo Firearms page should not have been removed from this wiki). PDW rounds fired out of pistols seem a little iffy to me as well; if HK had to cancel its UCP for "inadequate ballistics in a pistol platform," what makes the Five-seveN/QSZ-92/VBR 7.92 Glock that much better? In any case, the Magpul PDR is just a compact bullpup carbine in 5.56mm NATO, and the 5.8x21mm round (how is this better than the 5.7x28mm round again?) is a miniaturized version of the Chinese 5.8x42mm assault rifle round, which makes it a PDW round. Maybe we could compromise and call them "CQDWs" for "Close Quarters Defensive Weapons" to show how they are meant to be stowed in "Close Quarters" and are most effective in CQB range as well, given their shorter cases compared to full-size assault rifle rounds? Making a poll on the forum asking whether or not the PDW label should be expunged from the site might be useful as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:23, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Again, though, I don't really see the point of using a label that's just going to cause a lot of confusion with not-examples and pseudo-examples. Anything that is categorised as a PDW in the strictest sense is basically an SMG firing AP ammunition. Not using the term rules out all the various pistols and assault rifles that would otherwise sneak into the SMG heading through the vague backdoor marked "PDW." It's sorta like having a category called "Dogs / mammals" next to one saying "cats" and expecting cats to not end up in the dog category. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:I lol'ed at what you said about Akiba and Meryl. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:15, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

Yep, then Akiba tries to "man up" by getting the Barrett M82A2, but then finds he can't "last long." He definitely would have lasted longer if he had gotten something capable of "sustained fire" instead, like the Mk. 46 Mod. 0 coupled with an FN P90 of his own, so either he or Meryl could use the LMG for covering fire while the other goes out to loot P90 magazines from dead FROG troopers and keep wreaking merry hell as long as possible. But no, Kojima had to saddle Akiba with an incredibly impractical Barrett M82A2 (only really useful for killing larger Gekko drones and annoying unmanned Metal Gear RAYs), his old XM8 Compact and a GSR. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:23, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== The MAC-10 in this game ==

Is it an open bolt (the original version) or a closed bolt version? An open bolt version wouldn't need charging after reloading, and wouldn't need to be racked unless the trigger was held down after the last round fired (after which you'd just pull it back to ready the weapon). If the MAC-10 in this game were a closed bolt version, then you would need rack the bolt if you were loading from empty and would indeed eject a round if one were still in the chamber if you racked the bolt. If Old Snake is ejecting a round from the MAC-10 after a mid-magazine reload, then wouldn't it be a closed version? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:27, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'd have to check. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:09, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Another thing you might want to examine is the M60E4; it's still an open bolt weapon last I checked (partly because open bolt weapons run cooler than closed bolt ones, an advantage on an LMG since it means you don't have to change barrels as often). Also, is the M60E4 supposed to be the "very latest model" that the rebel in the Middle Eastern Militia Safe House was boasting about? It would make more sense than an HK21E, since some PMC machine gunners use the M60E4 and it is "the very latest model" of its kind. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:45, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Again, I'll check. In the latter case, I imagine the "very latest model" was probably supposed to be the XM8 LMG: it's the only version missing from the final game. Perhaps they gave the guy the HK21 instead because their playtesters would always kill him to get themselves a free 5.56mm machine gun with a built-in optic. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:30, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Please do. Your considerable efforts on this page are much appreciated. But it wouldn't be the first time a game has used closed bolt versions of weapons that were originally open bolt; Rainbow Six Vegas 2 uses a closed bolt version of the MAC-11 machine pistol, for instance. And the XM8 LMG was always a strange one to me; while the other variants had good advantages for reliability and ease of use for their roles (since their sights didn't need zeroing, had more durable/reliable parts, along with infrared laser pointer/illuminators built into the sight), the XM8 LMG does not have a quick-swap barrel (unlike the M249, for instance) and is a closed bolt weapon which would make its heat buildup more problematic, despite the tougher barrel. In any case, all the game devs had to do to make the XM8 LMG would be to stick a Beta C-mag on the Marksman version of the XM8, since you can't use bipods in this game. The XM8 LMG would have been great in Johnathan's hands, and the standard carbine would then be given to Akiba. Even so, giving that boastful rebel an M60E4 would still require that you spend the money for accessories on a new game, so it wouldn't be as imbalanced as an XM8 LMG.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:34, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== The "PMCs love the (M4)" line ==

In my edit I did NOT specify which voice track language I was referring to (for all I know, that line could also have been in the original JP version). What I was commenting on was how the recording for that scene was probably done before the decision was made to have the PMC guys use the SCAR-H rather than have them actually use the M4-type carbines (as seen in the preview images someone posted earlier). While not wrong to begin with, the fact that they didn't go back to re-do that scene based on the new weapon assignment leave me scratching my head. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 01:26, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, but it's hardly the only strange mistake made in that scene; Drebin also says it has a free-floating barrel even though there's clearly a circular end cap connecting the rail handguard to the barrel, and also that the US Army uses it even though in-game they don't. It's hard to say if it's something that used to be true, a mistake, or just Drebin playing salesman and hoping Snake doesn't notice the more obvious BS in his pitch. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just my personal observation, but I don't think Drebin's 'pretty popular with the big PMCs' line must necessarily mean that the M4 Custom is their standard-issue weapon. Maybe, in-universe, this version of the M4 is perhaps more like a weapon custom-made by the Drebins, and naturally sold exclusively by them. Perhaps he refers to veteran members of the PMCs buying them with their own fundings? Just my theory here, maybe I'm looking too much into it. --[[User:Researcher|Researcher]] 21:01, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:It's also a possibility that ''everyone'' used the M4 Custom in a previous build of the game and the changes were made after the voice overs were recorded. There's really nothing in the game to prove the M4 isn't still the US Army's standard combat weapon. Meryl's "Army/Marines" team is a very, very, very small fraction of the entire US military and them using XM8s means nothing, otherwise HK416 use by Delta Force is proof that that weapon is used by the whole US Army, which we all know isn't true. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:39, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

::The problem is we have no evidence at all of that being the case; the only standard rifle we see any US soldier using during the duration of the game is the XM8, and the only one the PMCs use is the SCAR. Made-up reasoning to fill over a hole in the game world's logic is referred to in some circles as "plot spackle." To go with your example, if the US Army were fictional and we had only ever seen soldiers with HK416s, it would be correct to say we have no evidence the US Army uses anything but the HK416, and if someone said they used the M4, we would point out we've never actually seen them do so and the HK416 appears to be their standard weapon. When interpreting fiction, seeing is believing; characters can lie, exaggerate and be wrong, but a bunch of guys carrying one gun and not the other is a pretty airtight argument as ti which weapon they use. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:39, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just found out something interesting... ==

HD remakes of all the previous games are apparently being released on PSN and possibly Live in November, so I'll hold out for them before screencapping those pages. Apparently they're going to sling in ''Peace Walker'' for PS3, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:15, 9 July 2011 (CDT

:Are they going to retexture MGS2 and MGS3 for this collection? I hope so, because MGS2 is horribly bland with its textures, far more than MGS3 was. I'd do MGS2 myself, I don't have a capture card and the PC version I have is not well programmed for PC graphics cards, so you often end up with a lot of graphical errors. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 11:48, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

::From the sounds of things it's going to be retextured MGS2, retextured MGS3 and probably retextured Twin Snakes running in the MGS4 engine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:02, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

:::That sounds cool. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

Last I heard it was only for the X Box 360. Good news that it's being released on the PS3 as well. Might mean that we're going to see it on the PC (fingers crossed). --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:10, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

== Drebins Camo Trousers ==
hi guys, wondering if anyone can tell me that make/pattern drebins trousers are, i mean obviously they are desert but im not sure what brand.

[http://images.wikia.com/metalgear/images/c/ca/DrebinMGS4.jpg] --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 10:48, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

Pattern would be something like "desert tiger stripe" and there's a similar-looking set of trousers [http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/original_desert_tiger_stripe.htm here]. His look to be bleached a bit lighter or something, but it's the same basic pattern. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:04, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

== A minor controversy over the Operator suicide scene ==

The English voice actor of Old Snake, David Hayter, caused a minor controversy among gaming journalists and the MGS fandom when he said he [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rH-cYUiogI didn't find Old Snake's reluctance to commit suicide to be believable]. Now that the relevant screenshot is in this wiki entry, I thought it deserved some explanation. In David Hayter's words, he says ''". . . Snake would put a bullet in, and put [the gun] in his mouth and just pop himself, like he's killed--he's killed how many countless thousands of people, and he's going to shake because he's going to kill himself? I didn't agree with that at all and begged them to change it . . . ."'' --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:05, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

:Hm, I don't really buy that. He's killed ''other'' people, sure, but confronting the end of your own existence and what might come next isn't going to be easy unless you're incredibly secure in your convictions as to what will happen (and Snake hardly strikes me as devoutly religious) or too stupid to comprehend that's what you're doing. It's not like it's a spur of the moment "I have to do this" thing, after all. Mind you, I really don't think we needed to see him going down on the Operator for quite as long as he did. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:45, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

Even so, I think he's used to fearlessly facing death, even if it's virtually certain (such as when he faced Metal Gear REX before Grey Fox intervened in MGS1, or during his hopeless duel with Fortune in MGS2). And "going down on the Operator"--that's a nice wordplay. Still, I think it's a little disappointing how what comes next is available at any difficulty--it would be more of an incentive to play on harder difficulties if you only got the complete scene after doing something such as completing the Boss Extreme difficulty or getting a Big Boss emblem. Otherwise, you'd only see:

*Old Snake smoking a last cig before fading to black and the last gunshot after finishing Liquid Easy.
*The scene where he sucks his gun off (again fading to black with the last gunshot) after finishing Solid Normal.
*A short cut after the final gunshot showing the gun and its smoking barrel in Old Snake's gnarled hand, fading to black after finishing Big Boss Hard.
*And the complete ending scene after finishing The Boss Extreme.

It would also have been a nice touch if you got to see the ghostly forms of all the people you killed throughout the game or the people Old Snake couldn't save (which means, at a minimum, Liquid Ocelot, Naomi and Big Mama) surrounding Old Snake in the cemetery as he puts the gun in his mouth, as he will join them in death very soon. Such a scene would be a nice reference to the Sorrow's River in MGS3. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:42, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

*I don't know, facing almost certain death is different to facing ''actual'' certain death, especially when it's for something as abstract as the human race rather than something as concrete as someone right in front of you. Also, in both those cases his other option was being killed by the thing he was facing, so he ''didn't'' pick the "certain death" option. Also, given Naomi's record for telling the truth, he's probably worried that shooting himself would just make the bullet ricochet off his superior genes, kill the person who was ''actually'' going to cure the disease and overpenetrate to also kill the world's most adorable kitten which was behind that guy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:18, 31 July 2011 (CDT)

I think the best real world explanation on why Snake's Operator locked back when he had no mag was that he could have possibly pressed the slide release up and hence locking it back by accident. I've seen people accidentally lock the slide back when they accidentally push the slide release up with a loaded mag in. It could have just been the mistake of the animator that they drew a mag follower when there shouldn't have been a mag inside the gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:56, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

A buddy of mine told me that dropping a round into the chamber like what Snake did would really risk accidentally setting the gun off and he seriously tells me to never do that in real life for any gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:26, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::Hideo Kojima thinks so as well. He was forced to add that scene after the credits, I hear. In his mind, Snake did kill himself-protoAuthor 17:31, 24 November 2011 (CST)

:::Actually the original ending would have been Snake and Otacon being hanged for treason (it's not clear who by). Hence "Here's to you" over the credits, which is about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_and_Vanzetti these two]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:57, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

"Also, given Naomi's record for telling the truth..." ...makes me facepalm at how proponents of the suicide ending stick to her claims of Snake becoming a biological weapon as if they're the words of Jesus himself. Seriously, if someone attempted to assassinate ''you'' with a biological weapon and that person later told you that you were in danger of ''becoming'' a biological weapon, would you really actually believe that person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:14, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== Operator ==

I think Snake's main 1911 is closer to a TRP Operator than a standard MC Operator. It has a Target cut rear sight, full length guide rod, extended magazine well and front strap checkering. Standard MEUSOC 1911s like the MC Operator and the Kimber Warrior don't have these features. I know it's not a huge difference but I think it may be worth mentioning.
:I just realized that TRPs are usually bushingless. I think it's more of a frankengun with features from both but I still think it's closer to the TRP so I changed the picture. Hope no one minds.
::I think we'll stick with the MC, it's heavily modified from either regardless of what it originally might have been. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:57, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== screenshots ==

I've taken some screen shots from MGS4 of most of the guns from a side on view I've uploaded a few as an example. The first is snake loading a cartridge into the breech of the thor, the second you can see the compensator working on the G18C, the third is snake screaming Rambo style. [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:THOR_breech_load.jpg]] [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:G18C_working_compensator.jpg]] [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Rambo_Scream.jpg]]
I've got more like them if anyone wants me to upload them just want to see what you think. [[User:Whatmename|Whatmename]]

You couldn't have taken bigger screen shots? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:31, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:<s>Certainly doable, yes. I'm going to be re-doing all the other shots when I have some time off work next month, I'll pick those up at the same time.</s> Edit: oh, wait, that wasn't Excalibur asking me to take bigger ones. Nevermind, I'll take bigger ones of those things, Whatmename, don't worry about uploading yours. Best that every shot comes from the same capture device and method, it makes the page look tidier. Besides, we don't really need side-on shots of most of the weapons since we've already got the inventory images for that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:09, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

I think that screenshot from the G18C shows that the muzzle flash doesn't quite fit where the compensator port is supposed to be. I think the only video games I've seen that correctly emulate the compensated muzzle flash are Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 1 and 2. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:21, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

== M4 Custom RAS ==

Regarding the confusion regarding the RAS on the M4 custom.

The in game RAS resembles two offerings from KAC, the Carbine RAS and the free floating RAS.
[http://www.knightarmco.com/mod_weapons_1.htm Knights ArmCo RAS]

The carbine RAS replaces the standard handguards and is secured with the default delta ring and end-cap.
The free floating RAS replaces the entire handguard, including the delta ring; replacing it with a visually distinctive locking ring. The end-cap in not employed.

The in-game model has the locking ring from the free-floating RAS but the end-cap from the carbine RAS.

IMHO this was done so that the game engine wouldn't have to render the interior surfaces for the RAS and barrel.

:Given we have other errors due to using airsoft guns as models, I think it's more likely that they used an airsoft replica. A cheaply made plastic RAS might have issues with snapping off if it wasn't secured at both ends. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:47, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:Also, I'm going to be replacing almost every picture on this page with HD versions soon, so don't worry too much about new ones, it just gives me more work. Put any suggestions here or on my talk page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:02, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

== Playing this again and disappointed in weapons ==

Decided to pop this back in and am a bit disappointed on how limited the guns are. The M4 is really the only gun you can fully accessorize and even then it was limited to what was available at the time of development. I didn't like the old style Aimpoint sight, no EOtech sight and I couldn't customized other guns like putting a red dot on the MP5. or the FAL. Since I've first played this game, I've learned how to shoot guns and I am a bit put off on how Snake not using the mag release button on rifles and ejecting a live round for only rifles and for some reason, not the handguns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:05, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I'm playing through this one again, too. I think that the gun ''selection'' is good, but I'm with you on the customization. They really could have explored more options as far as accessories go. As for him not using the bolt catch and ejecting live rounds...well, Snake is a professional, and I guess he has his own way of doing things. There's not really anything wrong with either of those (well, ejecting chambered rounds is pretty weird). It's like how some people drop the slide on a pistol with the slide lock, while some rack and release the slide. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 22:43, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

Selection-wise there are a lot of odd guns in my opinion. There's no reason why the Middle Eastern Rebels couldn't have been using AKMs or AK-74s, and Big Mama's resistance members could also be using them as well. The HK21E has absolutely ZERO reason to be in the game (you could have just replaced the Rebel's HK21E with an M60E4 and everything would be hunky-dory rather than with the nonsensical dialogue the Rebel spouts about the HK21E being "the very latest model"). The XM8 should have been the full-length model to give better damage retention at range than the M4A1 (and should have been given a suppressor as well). And no revolvers, despite Ocelot being in the game? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:50, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

Despite how overrated and in many games now, the ACR should be in this game. Because this game takes place in the future, a LOT more new guns have been out since then. The standard XM8 is a carbine. The "full length model" as you call it is just the DMR variant. The XM8 was originally intended to be a replacement carbine for the M4. Technically those aren't "middle eastern rebels" but mercenaries hired, so their gun choices are whatever they want. I wish the SCAR-L was in the game alongside the SCAR-H and I wish they modeled different barrel length instead of just the CQC variant. It's kinda odd none of the more "professional" PMC soldiers had any optics on their guns and shooting their SCARs in full auto. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:59, 24 August 2012 (CDT)
:Those ''were'' Middle Eastern rebels, the only PMCs there were the advisers, the guys who didn't wear anything covering their faces. This is stated so during Codec conversations with Otacon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:47, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

The game is also missing out on using more widely know handguns like SIGs and Glocks. The Glock 18 is just something overused in the media, so it doesn't count. I kinda wish you can "equip" a gun in the game so that in cut scenes, Snake is holding the gun you were holding the moment before the cut scene was triggered or when you walk around, the handgun holster is not automatically the 1911. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:10, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

:I think the main problem I always had with this is there's so many guns you never have any good reason to actually use for anything. The P90 is just plain ''better'' than all the other subguns, most of the vanilla pistols are useless, and so on. It's like they just threw darts at an airsoft catalog, and it results in some pretty dull bosses since none of them are designed with any particular weapon in mind. Plus the mount system doesn't have enough options; it's no good having mount something / mount nothing attachment points, there should be several accessories per location. Even if it's slightly farfetched things like sensor mountings on the side rails, it's better than nothing. Too many weapons with no accessories, too; I'd rather have fewer guns and more stuff to do with them, maybe have a SUIT scope for the FAL and some bracket accessories for the AK like a Kobra sight and so on. Also Snake maintaining light discipline in fully lit rooms is ridiculous.

:In general the design doesn't really work; dividing a warzone into arbitrary rooms shouldn't be necessary, and since they use the same alert system as always you get the weird scene of soldiers being attacked by a BMP-3 going to alert because AN OLD MAN WITH A BAD BACK IS HIDING IN THAT ALLEY. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:31, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:I think the reason why 9mm semiautomatic pistols were not included lies in the damage variables used in the game's engine. If you ever played Metal Gear Online 2, you might have noticed that it took 8 auto-aimed hits from the GSR to down an enemy player at full health. Using auto-aim with a full-auto Glock 18 took around 20 bullets to down someone as well. Imagine taking a Beretta M9 into that mode and consistently finding yourself 5 bullets short if you tried to use your handgun and auto-aim a lot. And yes, the alert system is lifted straight from the earlier games, so the PMCs' highest threat priority is Old Snake at all times. More accessories for more of the ingame-weapons would have been nice, but what do you mean by "sensor mountings"? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:05, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

I kinda wish they brought back some weapons from the previous games like the FAMAS, or the PSG-1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:02, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

:An AKS-74U with Kobra RDS and PBS-1 suppressor options would have been nice, too. I also would have preferred the XM8 be the RIS-equipped Malaysian variant (if not replaced altogether by something more relevant and modern like the ACR), the AK-102 have its tri-rail handguard, optic choices (EOTech!!!!!) and mounts for more guns, an M203 for the M4 (the HK launcher just looked too damn bulky on it) and suppressor options for ''most'' conventional weapons. I was just using the Dragunov last night during Act 2 and wished to high heaven I'd had a suppressor for it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:07, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

I understand why the M203 was not in the game. If you think about it, it's a weapon that's getting old and this game takes place in the future. So a more future Grenade launcher would be better...that said, I wish the SCAR-H in the game was given a EGLM. Seriously, we needed more optics than the Aimpoint and ACOG. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:This game is chock full of vintage weapons, including the Makarov, 1911, Mosin-Nagant, G3, Dragunov, MAC-10, Type 17, FAL, and even a freaking muzzleloading matchlock rifle, all ''older'' than the M203. Same could be said in a round-about way about the Mark 14 (M14), M4 (M16 platform), AK-102 (just an updated AK), and the Remington 870. I don't see how giving the M4 a variation of an accessory it's ''famed'' for would be out of place. It all goes back to us wanting more variety in weapon mods. Besides, there's nothing functionally wrong with the M203 and all the ammo available for the XM320 and MGL were standard 40x46mm that would have worked fine in it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:39, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

When Snake held his M4 tilted, it doesn't make sense in the context of the scene, but if the game was made today, I'd bet you Kojima saw the future when we have recently added red dot attachments at a tilted angle for ARs. I wanted a regular M82A1, not the bullpup variant that no one ever sees anywhere. I really wished Merle didn't have double Desert Eagles. One as a sidearm, sure as a homage because it was her gun in MGS1 but 2? The G36 series of guns would have been nice. I wish the SCAR-Ls were in the hands of the mercs along side the SCAR-H because it's kinda weird that they ALL have SCAR-Hs but weirder is that none of them have optics or other attachments. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

== Name of the equipment that allows Old Snake to reload one-handed? ==

If you choose to make Old Snake commit a war crime by taking an NPC as a human shield while wielding a handgun, you'll notice that unlike the previous game, Old Snake will actually reload his handgun when you press the reload button, rather than just stand around like an idiot when his gun runs empty (as was the case in MGS3) while holding a human shield. Is there a name for the holster setup he uses ingame that lets him reload one-handed? Would it be possible to get something similar that would allow you to reload a handgun that doesn't use detachable box magazines, like the Thor .45-70 in this game or a revolver? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:19, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

: I don't think he has any special equipment to reload with a human shield. I think he just smacks the gun around on his leg to make it look like he is actually doing something, but his gun is just reloaded by the magic elves in shooters, that also pick up spent shell casings and discarded mags as well as re-plaster walls that were damaged by bullet holes. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:31, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

: Also, it's not a war crime; the fourth Geneva convention only says you can't take civilians or soldiers who are taking no active part in the conflict as hostages. I don't think it applies to threatening one soldier to make others back off. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:19, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

It would be cool to see them do some animation where we see Snake doing one handed reloads while holding a hostage. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:22, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

I would think that directly using one as a human shield would be frowned on by those at the Hague, however. But that's not the worst of it in this game. For one, you can make Old Snake execute soldiers you've made to surrender (i.e., you hold them up, then throw them to the ground and hold them up again to make them put their hands behind their heads). You can also commit sexual assault at gunpoint by holding up a FROG trooper and patting her down, along with the crotch-grab move. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:14, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

:You can think that if you want, but it doesn't make it so. Police pat female suspects down just like they do males. It's not sexual assault. You have a beef against Solid Snake or something? First you try to make him out as a war criminal, next a rapist. Are you going to imply he beats Sunny next? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 12:52, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Mazryonh, you're thinking with a civilian mindset. Depending on situation, military around the world do train their people how to effectively hold someone, either as a "hostage", to suppress nonlethal or to kill silently. It's part of military doctrine. The whole patting down is also part of procedure. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:24, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

:Oh well, police officers at least have a legal right to pat people down, and at a police station a female detainee can usually ask to be patted down by a female officer. I very much doubt that the crotch squeeze (which is intentional genital contact) counts as "standard procedure" either. It was a joke in MGS2 and MGS3; here it's something Old Snake (who to everyone but a few people in MGS' world is an "illegal combatant") intentionally does to incapacitate the enemy or "cop a feel" at gunpoint (the FROG troopers even sometimes quip that "You know what I like!" if you do it to them sometimes, shortly before they try to kick you down). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:29, 14 January 2013 (EST)

Personally I don't see the point of asking to be pat down by a female officer, you're going to be patted down the same way by either gender so it doesn't make much of a difference, if they think you're hiding something up "there" they're still going to pat down that area. And the reason for the crotch squeeze is to 1) Knock the male PMC's out and 2) Make the FROG soldiers kick Snake in the face. [[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 23:08, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

== Most Detailed Weapons in Gaming History? ==

Now I know MGS isn't perfect as far as weapons go (wonky weapon choice, needless cocking), but doesn't it have the most detailed models? I've personally never played a game where so many weapons were portrayed so realistically (visually at least). All guns cycle and eject spent casings. Bolts lock back when they're supposed to (M4 Custom, MK 17 bolt lock's back along with charging handle). And even when snake reloads early (he needlessly cocks the weapon) the weapon does eject the appropriate cartridge, which means they actually modeled a spent casing along with a cartridge. Maybe i'm the only one constantly in awe of this games weapons, but maybe not. Who else agrees. - cheech98

:The devs definitely went (almost) all out. But then again, that's what I'd expect from an MGS game. The only thing that kinda spoils it is the fact that fresh mags aren't modeled with any cartridges in them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:27, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

It's also the first game that I've ever seen where people use a large amount of trigger discipline, some games are starting to implement it but I have never seen it as much as in this [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 20:37, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:It's probably the first ''console'' game to model firearms with this level of detail. But ''PC'' games did this earlier. Just go look at the level of detail present in the PC versions of [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter]] and [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2|its sequel.]] Both of them have the +1 round in the chamber from a tactical reload, there are two reload animations for virtually every firearm, and weapons can be extensively customized (except for the lack of an underslung shotgun). About the only real complaints I have about the guns in those games are an unrealistic damage system and the fact that selector switches don't actually move when you change your firing mode. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:50, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

== Weapons in stock photos used in cutscenes ==
Mostly M16A2s, an M16A2 with an M203, and an M249E1 from the first Gulf War (from the looks of their 90s-vintage gear), and M4s and a not-clearly-shown M240 variant used by troops in Iraq. Should these be included? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:15, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:Yeah, stock footage is still in the game, after all. I'll have to get those when I get around to re-recording all this in HD. Kinda tricky because I'm going to need to make myself a plan of exactly what to do to get the same shots again in gameplay. Be interesting to see what the rumoured upcoming patch is going to do and if it changes anything (it's going to add trophy support, we know that part). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:48, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
::That patch is actually already out, released two or three days ago. Didn't change anything aside from adding trophy support, from what I can see (and I just finished a playthrough about half an hour to an hour ago). All of the above weapons appeared in you-know-who's monologue at the end of the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:50, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:::I assume they haven't put the MGO servers back up? They were turned off earlier this year IIRC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:43, 2 September 2012 (CDT)
::::No. The MGO option in MGS4's main menu has been replaced with an option to install all five acts of the game to the HDD at the same time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:28, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

== Hey... ==

If Johnny doesn't have nanomachines, wouldn't that mean he didn't have a system ID, meaning he'd have never been able to fire his issue weapon? Wouldn't someone have, you know, ''noticed'' that? For that matter, how come Snake thought threatening him with his issue weapon was a good idea when as far as he knew he'd never have been able to fire it without taking it to Drebin? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 00:06, 14 January 2013 (EST)

:I talked about this in an earlier revision of the XM8 section of this entry. But apparently I was wrong, and that was before I got the game for myself anyway. In any case, it's not too far of a stretch to posit that he's been paying Drebin some visits. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:22, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::Well yeah, but it's his issue weapon. Wouldn't the instructors have noticed he was the only one on the firing range physically incapable of firing his weapon at a target and, you know, done something about it? And you get in trouble if he has a non-ID weapon too since he should have used it at the end of Act 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:17, 14 January 2013 (EST)

:::He couldn't have used it if he wanted to in Act 3 cause he was puking his guts out on that boat. Of course now that you mention it, I do wonder how neither Merle or anyone on her team notices how they cannot link with Johnny at all [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 08:25, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::::Meryl oft mentions how johnny can be so out of synch with the rest of the team, most notably in the first few scenes where they are introduced IIRC. Also, from what I recall from the MGS database, all his gear is customized with tech from Japan to bypass the ID coding, minus the stuff from Drebin. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 15:06, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::::But there was no way Snake could have known Johnny's XM8 is potentially an Non ID gun because his lack of nanomachines, yet he disarmed him and was ready to use it despite being informed previous that all guns are ID locked and he can't possibly used them without Drebin unlocking them for him to use. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:42, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

This game, while moderately fun (MGS3 is easily 10X more fun than MGS4 is, but that's just my personal opinion), has so many glaring issues that I'm so tempted to say, "Just throw it into the big bag labeled 'Plot Holes' and move on." LOL. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:32, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

:MGS3 was a game based around its gimmicks in my experiences--the guards are much easier to fool than in MGS4 and you have Naked Snake's omnipresent hunger to deal with (but we should save this for the actual MGS3 page). Still, Kojima could have prevented this problem if Old Snake, after slamming Johnny with CQC, unloaded his weapon, pocketed the magazine, threw it away (since I doubt Old Snake knew how to field strip, Boss-style, an unfamiliar weapon like the XM8 on very short notice), then drew his own looted AK-102 (which you MUST take) to point at the Rat Patrol. As for Johnny's part, he could just have visited a gun launderer early on in his training (though it still doesn't take care of the question of why Old Snake commandeered his XM8 since for all Old Snake knew the ID lock would have rendered it nonfunctional).--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:49, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

:::The soldiers in MGS3 are easier to handle because they aren't interconnected to each other via SOP like the mercs in MGS4 are and, barring the Ocelot unit and other Spetsnaz, were likely far less extensively trained since the Soviet war machine of the time was based primarily on overwhelming an enemy with sheer numbers. Even then, Big Boss is (at least from my POV) shown to be the obviously better soldier when compared to Snake. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:53, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

::How could he visit a gun launderer before taking his issue weapon out on a firing range, though? They don't tend to let you take your rifle home and screw around with it in the military, last I checked. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:48, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

:Easy, he could have noticed that "Oh, crap, I'll be using an XM8 as part of the Rat Patrol and don't have any nanos; I need to get a counterfeit chip/firing mechanism blocker/whatever ASAP" and then visited a gun launderer to ask for that specific component ("Sure, you can have one for an XM8, so as long as you bring me the original by tomorrow" or the like). All Johnny has to do then is to substitute the counterfeit component (most plausibly something that locks the safety switch in its "on" position without the appropriate radio signal from a user's nanomachines, and has its own microchip component that can receive an overriding signal from the Patriots) for the original via field-stripping his weapon before his first firing trip range--they have field stripping practice sessions in the military, don't they?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 20:35, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

::If it were that easy, I doubt the Drebins would have made a business out of it. Every soldier in the field and mom & pop gun shop would be able to easily circumvent SOP, thereby making the whole thing--and the entire premise of the game--a proverbial fifth wheel. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:53, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

:No, according to Drebin 893's explanation at the end of the game, the gun launderers are '''(SPOILERS)''' Patriot-sponsored workarounds to the system, so it's most likely that only they can create chips (or whatever the component is actually called) that countermand/counterfeit the Patriot's System ID locks. Besides, the Rat Patrol's true purpose is in fact supporting Patriot operations, so I'm sure they would have given Johnny what he needed when he was assigned to the team, one way or another.'''(END SPOILERS)'''--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 00:53, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

::Yeah, but like I noted on the page, all of these weapons are designed to work without the System, so the worst you'd have to do is replace a component and maybe mill some metal out of the receiver so it fits. A lockout might work with something like the Javelin if the software is cloud-based and the missile programmed by the System since you'd have to write new software from scratch to use it, but a lockout on a gun is like a safe. It's there to stop you immediately accessing the contents, but if you can take it away and do whatever you like to it, it's not going to last for very long. So the Drebins would have been undercut by black-market gunsmiths who were just removing the ID locks or manufacturing weapons that never had them installed in the first place.

::That's not even getting into how daft it is having an army that requires the equivalent of an always-on internet connection to stop their soldiers turning into gibbering wrecks, their guns locking up and all their vehicles shutting down (helicopters doing so in mid-air, even). What do you do in an area with bad communications or jamming? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:45, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

== Random question regarding the SCAR-H description ==
Why are the XM320 and Masterkey referred to as "NATO underbarrel accessory weapons"? Neither weapon adheres to any NATO standard AFAIK, but the wording makes it sound as if both are some kind of standardized weapon systems used by all member states when no such standardization has ever existed. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:26, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

:My take is that they were designed for use by NATO-standard nations, just like the GP-25 is a Warsaw pact underbarrel weapon.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:51, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

::Are there even any NATO standards for shotgun and low-velocity grenade munitions? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:55, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

:::Standard-measurement (2 3/4 in, 3 in, etc.) 12 Gauge shells for shotguns (I know, it seems obvious, but that's what it is) and 40x46mm for grenade launchers. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:06, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

:::What I mean is they go on NATO-ammunition-using weapons. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:39, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

2013-03-17T16:06:02Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Random question regarding the SCAR-H description */

== Airsoft 1911 ==
Are you absolutely sure the airsoft gun wasn't based on the gun in the game?-protoAuthor
:What are you talking about? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:10, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
::You say the custom 1911 was based on an airsoft gun. Are you sure it wasn't the other way around?-protoAuthor
::I also agree that the gun isn't based off the one in the pic for that weapon. Aside from it being an airsoft gun, it is a compact version of a 1911 when Big Boss's 1911 was a fullsize. Also, the slide serrations are slanted wheras the ones on big boss's weapon were vertical like those on the original 1911. Neither one has anything to do with the other, I think the image should be removed.

the 'source' for the statement 'Big Boss's gun is based off a custom airsoft' is http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/gameguns.html

However, I view this with a huge degree of skepticism. For starters, as mentioned, the barrel/slide seems to be longer on Big Boss's gun. But even if it is based on an airsoft gun, the airsoft gun itself is based on a standard real-world 1911 with real world features. So it's just one step removed from raw, hands on research. But then again, I don't think most game companies actually buy real versions of the guns they are modeling, they just look around for photos of them. It's like saying 'the model for the gun in this game isn't based on a REAL M-16, it's based on pictures of an M-16'

That 'source' mentions that the gun was produced by Sheriff Co. Given that Sheriff is mentioned in the MGS3 credits it's actually quite likely that it was in fact modeled off an airsoft gun. However, the one in the picture is obviously not the one in the game.--[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 19:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I know that Western Arms did an airsoft version of the MGS3 custom 1911 after the game was released. I wasn't aware of an airsoft gun like that existing before MGS3 was released. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 07:30, 2 July 2011 (CDT)

== DSR-1 ==

It can also be found in South America when following Naomi's trail, just follow the wrong footsteps from the point where you can also find hand trails. You will hear Naomi crying for help (from a radio) and a sniper will wait for you to come. She has the DSR-1 with her.

== In game pistures ==

Someone needs to post ingame pictures of the guns.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 23:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

this shot gun (http://www.gunsamerica.com/926290644/Guns/Shotguns/Ithaca-Shotguns/SxS/Ithaca_NID_New_Ithaca_Field_Grade.htm) looks alot like the "twin barrel" in the game.--[[Special:Contributions/184.35.22.22|184.35.22.22]] 22:34, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

== Mark 23 Mod 1? ==
''According to the Metal Gear Wiki, the gun they used as a reference in MGS4 is actually an experimental "Phase 2" model that is currently undergoing testing by the US Navy.''

No, actually it says that ''the SOCOM presented in MGS1, MGS2 and MGS4 is in fact the Phase II model handgun submitted for trials in the USSOCOM Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) competition around the later part of 1991, and not the actual production model of the Mk.23 Mod 0''. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

::I wrote that -- the differences were the LAM, front serrations on the slide, markings, and the hammer looked different too. By the time the Mk23 was received in May '96, these details bad been changed; both for the military and civilian versions of the pistol. Overall, they're mostly aesthetic changes. -- Orca*

==Screenshots needed==

This page needs someone with enough effort to add pictures for all of these guns. -GM

:I can't do screencaps, but I did add some details about some of the weapons such as where they can be found and such. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 12:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC) Spartan198

:I would agree that a game with this many weapons would be much better with more relevant screencaps, especially ones without watermarks. More relevant information about the guns themselves would also be welcome.

==Why the strange biases towards certain weapons and calibers in this game?==

It seems odd to me why the weapon/caliber selection is so odd in this game. Metal Gear Solid has been one of the best game series to prominently display the real names of every gun in the game, but I have to wonder if some of those companies Kojima got permission from paid him to underplay the abilities of other guns in this game.

For the calibers, it seems mighty odd that the Glock 18c is the only 9x19mm pistol in the entire game. Not even the rebels or militia use older 9x19mm pistols, which is very odd because you'd think that of the vast majority of older pistols that escaped the worldwide mandatory ID lock systems that is mentioned in the game's backstory would be 9x19mm pistols. Not even something like a Beretta M9 is used by the PMC troopers, even though it would be a nice free choice to have in Metal Gear Online.

The game also strangely features 7.62x51mm Battle Rifles where they aren't the most appropriate, such as how the PMCs use the FN SCAR-H even in the confines of urban ruins (as in Act 1) or an intact city (as in Act 3). Only the South American countryside in Act 2 would be an appropriate location for those Battle Rifles in the hands of general troopers. You'd think that Kojima with his weaponry knowledge would give them assault rifles/PDWs/shotguns instead while in urban operations, but that's somehow not the case.

Did H&K and FN pay Kojima to include (and in turn, advertise) their products a great deal in this highly-anticipated and wildly popular game? FN has the Five-SeveN, the P90, the SCAR-H, and the FAL all in the game, while H&K has the SOCOM pistol, the MP5SD2, the XM8, the G3A3, and the HK21E. Colt products and their users by contrast don't get that kind of exposure--Colt M4s are rare, and Colt M16s are completely non-existent in this game. I also think it's telling that the FN P90 has its 50 round magazine, a combat sight, a flashlight and a suppressor, but its competitor, the H&K MP7 has only a red dot sight and is stuck with its 20 round magazine (not its upgraded 40 round magazine) according to this game just can't compete.

Contrary to what some posters on this wiki have said elsewhere, I don't believe this game is biased towards the latest and greatest weapons in general, as several weapons here such as the Vz. 83, the FN FAL carbine, the G3A3, the MAC-10, the Mosin Nagant, the PKM, the RPG-7 and the SVD Dragonuv are quite old.

Kojima definitely spent some time doing weapons research for this game, but did he ever come out with a reason as to why the game chose such odd additions to its arsenal? His personal favourite gun is the Barret M82, something not suited for general combat, so maybe he himself doesn't know as much as the ingame info might imply. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the same arguments could be said about any of the Tom Clancy games like Rainbow Six Vegas and it's whoring worth of H&K weaponry [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]]

It would seem to me that if HK and FN paid Kojima off to showcase (or "whore out", whichever you reading this prefers) their tech, weapons like the XM8 and SCAR-H wouldn't be seemingly outclassed by the M4. You can kit the M4 out with anything and everything, while the SCAR-H lacks a suppressor and grenade launcher (severely hindering its flexibility) and the only thing the XM8 gets is the grenade launcher. Heck, the M4 is pretty much a CQB, grenadier, and designated marksman carbine all in one package (and I typically use it as such, often foregoing the actual ''sniper rifles'' in the game in long range combat for the M4 equipped with an ACOG). If HK or FN had paid him off, it would seem logical for the M4 to be totally outclassed in-game by both the XM8 and SCAR-H. Not only those points, but the M4 and the 1911s (I say 1911s collectively because cutscenes seem to automatically replace every non-1911 pistol in your inventory with the Operator) are implied to be Snake's signature weapons this time around. If he were paid off, why aren't the Mark 23 and XM8 or Five-Seven and SCAR-H his signature weapons? Also where's the PSG1, the so-called "greatest sniper rifle in the world" (or so HK says)? And I also feel the urge to point out that the HK21E has '''0''' modifications for it as well as a ridiculously slow ROF, which makes the M60E4 ''clearly'' superior to it. Now, I'm not exactly ''defending'' either company here, but it just seems to me that if they had paid Kojima off, the biases pointed out here would be far more extreme. As it stands, I just think Kojima wanted the weapons he likes the most to be the ones players used the most. Regarding the "old" weapons in the game, they may have seen a few years, yes, but FALs, G3s, Dragunovs, PKs, and above all the RPG-7 are so ubiquitous today that we'll be seeing them on modern battlefields, ''especially'' ones in the Middle East, for decades to come. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

:Actually, now that I've spent some time thinking about it, the M4 and M1911 in MGS4 may not actually be Colt products at all. After all, didn't a court decision in real life rule that an M4 is a type of firearm and not a Colt trademark at all? It's kind of like how an "M1911-style pistol" is also a type of pistol, not a Colt trademark which is why there are dozens if not hundreds of kinds of "M1911-style pistols" for sale on the general market today. I wonder if Kojima asked Colt to use their trademarks and got rebuffed for whatever reason, which might have caused him to withdraw the M4s from the PMCs and substitute FN SCAR-Hs until someone told him he could just call it an M4 (though not a Colt M4) and avoid copyright infringement.

:On the issue of customizability, I think the M4's customizability compared to, for instance, the XM8 and FN SCAR-H is a bit of laziness on the part of Kojima. I don't think there's any reason why they couldn't just stick the M14 EBR's suppressor model on the end of the FN SCAR-H or G3A3 and turn those two into suppressed firearms, for instance. They could have also stuck the M4's suppressor model onto the AK-101 or XM8 as well (in my opinion the XM8's integral red dot sight in MGS4 is easier to use than the M4's, being a great deal less claustrophobic than the M4's version). Something like the FN EGLM would have been nice on the SCAR-H (or the SCAR-L had they bothered to give the PMCs assault rifles in urban areas) but unlike the M320 or GP-30, would only have gone on one weapon (unless the SCAR-L was included) and possibly not have been good on the cost-benefit analysis. But my point, that the customizability of many of the weapon systems (where are the PSO-1 scopes for the AN-94 and AK-102, for instance?) is more an artifact of the design decision than the reality of the weapons in question. Of course, even with the full "real-life" customizability, the M4 would still be the only one capable of carrying an underslung shotgun, which I think is unique enough (though I bet the XM8 could have gotten one had it been adopted, and I'm sure one will be designed for the FN SCAR models if it proves itself in the field enough).

:Oh, and one of the reasons why you can snipe with the M4 is because the game over-emphasizes headshots and doesn't implement ballistic physics for bullets. If it did, bullet drop would come into play (especially since the M4's short barrel means that less velocity and energy is imparted to the bullet, resulting in less effective range), moreso with the M4 than the FN SCAR-H or M14 EBR for instance. I think the game would have been more fun if helmets were stronger (for instance, 5 helmet hits from most pistol weapons to kill, 3 helmet hits from 5.56mm weapons to kill someone, or 2 7.62x51mm/PDW ammunition hits, or 1 9x39mm/shotgun slug hit), forcing the player to aim for the exposed face or neck to guarantee a one-hit headshot kill).

:I only mentioned those weapons as "old" so as to defuse claims that Kojima was only focussed on the "latest and greatest."

:It would have been nice if a PSG-1 and FAMAS (both weapons used in MGS1) showed up in the game for old time's sake, but that was not to be. Still, that doesn't resolve the question of why HK's PDW (the MP7A1) is so inferior to FN's PDW (the P90) in this game. Even the wikipedia image of the MP7A1 shows it with a suppressor and 40 round magazine, along with custom optics. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:25, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::Play on a higher difficulty level. The strength of the PMC's helmets varies. On the easiest level, a single 9mm round will punch through. On the highest level, it takes a couple of rounds of 7.62 NATO to punch through. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:50, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

One imagines a general switch from assault rifles back to battle rifles would occur in a world where you might reasonably expect to encounter extremely tough infantry armour or power suits; given the nature of the PMCs as private entities, being "equipped for anything" is probably a selling point. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:23, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:Sure, but if you're really "equipped for anything" you'd issue what's needed for the environment. And the PMCs in Act 2 (South America) still use the SCAR-H CQC even though in open countryside that barrel length is more of a liability than anything else. Even the Leftist insurgents are using full-size G3A3s in that stage. In a battle rifle, the shorter the barrel, the more of the cartridge's energy goes to waste as useless muzzle flash and sound. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:09, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

::To be fair, Pieuvre Armement also have more support weapons than any of the other PMCs (snipers, HMGs, grenade launchers, and a lot of mounted guns) and it looks like they were primarily hired to defend key government structures rather than fight it out in the open. Perhaps with the SCARs they just got a bulk discount, or given it's a private entity it could just be one of the directors like the look of the weapon / someone was impressed by the salesman's spiel / someone was sleeping with someone else / whatever. Out of game, it makes some sense; it means you only need one set of gestures coded for NPC / rifle no matter what level they're in. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:19, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:If Kojima's aim was to make the FN SCAR-H a "this is one of the signature enemy NPC guns" type of thing, then that does make some sense, but that doesn't even cover how many Pieuvre Armement troopers can be found patrolling in the open, sometimes ambushed by Leftist insurgents, or the lack of customizability options for the FN SCAR-H.

:Furthermore, if Kojima and his team could afford the time and money to put the KAC Masterkey on the M4A1 Carbine (an accessory that can be mounted on no other weapon in this game) you could just as easily do the same kind of work and stick an FN EGLM grenade launcher to the SCAR-H (it uses the same swing-out cylinder as does the M320 grenade launcher, so the animations would be largely the same), to say nothing of a suppressor or the LSS underslung shotgun for the XM8. And why not rip off the Mk. 14 Mod 0's suppressor to use on the SCAR-H, G3A3 or the FAL carbine? Before you tell me "they don't have barrel threading," neither does Snake's Operator pistol, his very first suppressed lethal weapon. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:31, 30 May 2011 (CDT)
::Uh dude, Snake's Operator does have a threaded barrel, did you even look at the pics... - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:41, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I stand corrected, the thumbnail made the threading blend together into a featureless grey. Regardless, my other points stand. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:55, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I think the idea was to make players want to use the M4 over other weapons (I guess to emphasise it), so the SCAR couldn't be as good as it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:07, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Noteworthy is the fact that the Masterkey in reality doesn't come in a rail-mounted version like is shown in-game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:44, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

== Mk. 23 Mod 0 ==
I just have to ask this; why does Snake like using the H&K Mk. 23? I mean, from everything I've heard/read about them, the USP compact tactical variant is much better, so why doesn't Snake use that?--[[User:Zblayde|Zblayde]] 16:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

He uses it because the designers wanted him to use it. And if you've ever shot a Mk23 you'd know that it is vastly superior to the entire USP series in every possible way other than weight and weight shouldnt be an issue you're looking for a combat handgun.
-Double Agent M

:Um, yes, weight ''is'' an issue in a combat handgun. Weight is ''always'' an issue when it comes to the weapons and gear used by soldiers. That's why the Mark 23 ''failed'' as a combat handgun and lavished on supply shelves instead of inside holsters like the various 1911 makes and even the entire USP series. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I've been meaning to ask this for a while now on the HK Mk. 23's page, but since this was brought up, I might as well ask it here: why ''was'' the Mk. 23 made so big and bulky in the first place, if its performance could have been replicated in the smaller USP series? It's close in size to the Desert Eagle despite firing a smaller (and more combat-practical) cartridge. Was it to ensure ruggedness, resistance to salt water damage, and reliability? Or something else? It's always puzzled me about this pistol that is one of the signature weapons of the Metal Gear Solid series (making appearances in 1, 2, and 4). Of course, it could be that Kojima just thinks it's a "cool gun" . . . --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Its weight helps counteract recoil, the elongated barrel improves accuracy, and right out of the box it can be fitted with a suppressor and a LEM. It's bulky enough so that if you need to you can beat a man to death with it. It's a fantastic combat handgun but where it loses out to Berettas and Colts is in complexity. Because of it's raw size you cant just whip it around and the controls can take some getting used to. It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm.
-Double Agent M

:Supposedly the USP Compact Tactical can mount a suppressor and Laser Aiming Module, but only has 8 rounds in .45 ACP. Also, as a "Offensive Handgun Weapons System," the SOCOM pistol supposed to be usable as a primary weapon when killing is supposed to be done discreetly, such as many situations in the Metal Gear Solid series. On paper I can see why it's better, but if the hands-on experience of operators deems it as "uncomfortable to carry and use," then their complaints trump the on-paper benefits.

:Of course, "uncomfortable" and "hard to use" is a bit of a relative term, since training and practice can certainly acclimatise someone to almost any well-designed weapons system, but that takes time, money, and perseverance. Given that handguns are hardly a primary weapon system anymore, and the majority those who do professionally use them as such (such as average beat cops) don't train with them to be expert shooters most of the time, I suppose ease of use is a major factor because it's the easier way out instead of spending time to get used to a better-on-paper but less-user-friendly weapon. If "better-on-paper" mattered more, wouldn't the FBI be using Glock 20 pistols instead of Glock 22 pistols? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:48, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with you. :) But I'd still love to get a hold of one and try it for myself. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:: "It's not intended to be a back-up weapon, it's designed to supplement and compliment a shooter's primary firearm." <-I love this kind of thing. Sure, a pistol that's a foot and an half long with a suppressor and weighs as much as an empty MP5 is a much better compliment to your primary weapon than it's weight in extra magazines ''for'' that primary weapon. Think you needed to lay off the HK propaganda there, "Agent M." To actually answer the question, they used the Mk23 because it's huge and blocky (same reason Meryl got that 50 AE Deagle), so it's easy for the player to see it in Snake's hands and for the PS1 to render it. Simple as that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:42, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:::I've heard from a lot people who actually own MK 23s and they say that their excellent weapons (and no, it was not "HK propaganda"). - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:23, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::::From what I've heard, they're excellent weapons in terms of accuracy (which comes from being gigantic and heavy) but not something you'd want to take into combat; they're too big for a backup weapon and not capable enough as a primary weapon. Also, anyone who drops the cost of a Mk23 on a pistol is going to have thought it was an excellent weapon ''before'' they bought it, otherwise they never would have done so in the first place. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:56, 24 May 2011 (CDT)
:::::I would buy one, but hey, a four pound .44 Magnum revolver feels like nothing in my hands, and I'm only a medium-sized guy with not much of a build. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:43, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:::::Not sure if anyone has noticed this, but is it me, or the MK 23 is listed in the menu as actually much lighter than it is IRL? Maybe that's why it is so popular in the MG universe... --[[User:Researcher|Researcher]] 20:18, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

::::::I always thought the reasoning behind the design and adoption of the Mark 23 initially, was because the weapon could handle ridiculously hot ammunition loads without exploding, something special forces occasionally use, which would normally destroy any "lighter" handgun. Out of the box, the Mk23 alongside the USP line, was one of the few handguns capable of firing .45 Super (not 100% on this) and the reliability of the weapon was insane for the time of its introduction as it could and still can take immense abuse. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 06:41, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

The MK23 is too heavy to be considered a practical firearm, too big to be quickly drawn from the holster if needed, sure the added weight can help reduce recoil, and the good magazine capacity is a plus, but that's really all that it has going for it, it was developed for the Navy SEALS SOCOM unit, and they don't even like it, preferring the smaller and more user friendly SIG SAUER P226, so if an actual military unit thinks the pistol is crap, then quite honestly, it's crap.[[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] 19:10, 9 May 2012 (CDT)
:It's not that much heavier than a 1911. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 11:48, 16 March 2013 (EDT)
::Yeah, but it's supposed to be issued as a "system" with the suppressor and LAM. With those it's over a foot long and weighs as much as two and a half loaded Glocks (or almost as much as an empty AS Val). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:01, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

== Meryl's Desert Eagle ==

Just how "combat-effective" would the ballistics of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle be? What might the effective range be, and would it regularly penetrate the body armour of the FROG troopers she faces? Or would she be better off with an 40-round MP7A1 (to go with the theme of "biggest to smallest" weapons of the Rat Patrol) when fighting the FROG troopers in Advent Palace and Outer Haven? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

*I've got an Airsoft Desert Eagle (bought many years ago, mind) that came with both barrels, and it's weighted to the point you can see what a bad idea it is: it's ridiculously front-heavy with that barrel extension, and I imagine with a scope as well it'd probably weigh as much as the MP7 anyway. So maybe it could penetrate body armour and maybe it couldn't, but you'd still have better ergo from using a 1911 duct-taped to the head of a banjo. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:21, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Okay, so that Airsoft model exactly duplicates the loaded weight of Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle? That's rather interesting. Even if it couldn't penetrate the body armour the FROGs seem to be wearing, would the impact force be enough to inflict blunt trauma on the FROGs, such as broken ribs, concussions, or the like? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:15, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

Well back when I did Airsoft, I played for functionality and being simple. Sure my team and I decked out our guns, but nothing more than red dot sights, and vertical grips. Because it isn't real firearms, we tried to not equip like we would a real weapon because it's not the same thing. Lighter is always better. The less we have to carry, the better. That being said, I would never get an Airsoft Desert Eagle to shoot in games. For fun, yeah. It'll be cool to run around the woods with the 10in barrel and a scope mounted on it, but you wouldn't get any good range with an airsoft pistol anyway, even if it is gas powered. Now a REAL Desert Eagle, I'd get for fun, but that's only after I get my more practical guns first.

Anyway, I think from a character standpoint, Meryl's character is supposed to be a "tough chick" so what's the iconic tough guy gun? A Desert Eagle from the action movies. I don't know if the .50 AE could go through body armor [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:42, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

:Yeah, I just use it for plinking spiders because I have a high ceiling. Bought it because I was a teenager and it was a Desert Eagle, I will make no excuses on that front. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 10:48, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

::lol, I also bought a Airsoft Desert Eagle when I was a teenager and I still have it. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 17:50, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, living here in Comrade Elizabeth's Glorious People's Republic of Englandstan makes it easy to hang on to it since if I'm reading this correctly I couldn't legally sell it anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:13, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

::::lol. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 07:49, 25 May 2011 (CDT)

:Well I admit before I knew anything about the M16, I was very anti-gun kid in early high school. Then when I got to know guns, I thought the M16 is this Vietnam piece of crap that jams all the time and the AK is the ultimate assault rifle until I grew up and got a more objective view of guns. When buying my first Airsoft, I bought a P90 cause I was a fan of Stargate...then I discovered a P90 Airsoft is useless, inaccurate and has terrible range. So I went and bought an M733, and then realize that you need a longer barrel for range and accuracy and that evolved to my M4 type rifle. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 10:59, 6 March 2011 (MSK)

One more thing; does the reloading style Meryl uses in the fight inside Outer Haven's computer room have a name (where she jams one of her magazines into the crook of her knee while firing with her other hand, before reloading an empty Desert Eagle with the magazine held in her knee)? I see so many adds for shooting schools with patented styles around I have to wonder if this comes from one of them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:11, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Tanegashima rifle ==

Why isn't it on the page?

:Thanks to Evil Tim's hard work, it is now on the page. However, there's something that remains to be investigated; I've heard conflicting reports about whether or not the Tanegashima arquebus will always fire its "divine wind" (translated version of the Japanese word "Kamikaze") tornado if you fire it in the opposite direction of the wind in a singleplayer level. That could be something worth looking into. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:15, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::I'll check up on that; I'd just heard it was a one-third chance per shot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:51, 2 June 2011 (CDT)
::Nope, nothing to do with the wind direction, I tried with and against the wind, and in the end it just went off at random like usual. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:17, 3 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see it was just a rumour then. Still, I'm puzzled as to why you didn't take a screenshot highlighting the extreme silliness of the weapon; it would have been worth a chuckle to see a screenshot of PMCs caught in the tornado flying in a spiral while dropping far more items than they could ever carry in real life while collecting their "frequent flier miles."--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:57, 4 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well, I accidentally selected Solid Normal rather than Big Wuss Easy, and it's hard enough getting the Tanegashima to do its thing normally, nevermind trying to check how it's affected by the direction of the wind while being shot at. I'm doing enough stupid things to burn through rations as it is :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:58, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:I see; I guess not all of us have the time to learn how not to get shot up less in this game (here's a tip; going prone or crawling is the best way to use your Octocamo). Would have been nice to see PMCs flying in a big spiral anyhow on this wiki. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:43, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Well sure, I can be pretty sneaky when I'm not doing stupid things like seeing if I can get a Gekko to throw a grenade at me. Same as I'm trying to avoid wearing the Octocamo hood even though it's good for your camo index, because it also makes Snake look really stoopid. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:42, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Someone needs to finish this page ==

This page is how old and no one has finished it? Someone needs to start doing it.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 01:17, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Well I don't have this game and it's a chore to get all the screenshots second hand [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 02:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I've got a much better capture device than I used to, so I could probably do this at some stage; the main problem is I'd have to record it first (since the software with the Dazzle crashes every time I take a screenshot and BSODs the entire computer if I try to take more than one); I'll have a crack at it next time I'm off work. Don't want to just stand in a corner looking at the same thing for every gun, that makes for dull page. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 09:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

:Please do. Stealth camo would be useful to take screenshots of weapons in the hands of NPCs (such as the MP7 or the like). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

::Still on this. It's going to take a while before I have time (especially since I'll need to record some of those billion hours of cutscenes), but I haven't forgotten. I'll probably get Twin Snakes and cap the whole series, since doing PS1 MGS1 without first-person aim mode for caps would be a bit pointless. "Look, Snake has a FAMAS! Down there in his hands...oh just click on the damn image and press your nose right up to the screen." Only thing I really need from that is a comparison shot of the Abrams, since the original game's one had two M2 Brownings instead of one. Also I've got an MGS2 trailer somewhere showing Snake with a FAMAS, so I'll have to add that to the 2 page. I'm hoping I can find a picture of the wooden prop version of Fortune's railgun that they built for motion capture. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:31, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Good to know. I'm looking forward to a full version of this page. I would have finished the MGS2 page myself, except that the PC version I have (the official KONAMI port) is somewhat poorly optimized, with some textures missing or improperly rendered (and what do you mean, KONAMI, that we can't use the mouse to aim in FPV or duplicate the pressure sensitive button functions from a PS2 controller with a keyboard?!). Also, the FAMAS in MGS2 is only usable on the demo version of MGS2 (though it does show up in some cutscenes in the Plant chapter for some strange reason). Did they reuse the MGS2 Demo FAMAS for the Twin Snakes? Perhaps you can find out. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:54, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah, that'd be worth checking. I heard GIAT (it was still GIAT back then) got very precious about their intellectual property after they realised people wanted to put the FAMAS in games (they're the same about model companies and the LeClerc, Tamiya had to stick their logo and "officially endorsed" on the box of their LeClerc kit) and I think that's why Konami pulled the FAMAS from 2 and never had it turn up again even in 4. Probably they couldn't say no to using it in a remake since they'd already said yes the first time. I've still got the demo of 2 (only reason anyone bought ''Zone of the Enders'', after all) and the FAMAS isn't in that either; it goes from the start of Tanker to the end of the boss fight with Olga, and only gives you the M9 and USP. It was only ever in the early trailers showing Snake on the Tanker. I heard there's some other changes like the guys in the Warhead Storage room using ring airfoil rounds rather than just instakilling you with a radiation leak if you were spotted. Also, you didn't miss anything with the pressure sensitive buttons, trying to half-hold the fire button to aim a rifle in first person was terrible. Apparently the "Tanegashima" is a Japanese copy of a Portugese arquebus design (sayeth Wikipedia, anyway), so I'll have to add that to the page too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:19, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

:Well, copyright is a sticky situation (go look at one of my earlier comments here and notice how there are no Colt products in this game, despite the presence of an M4A1 Carbine and an M1911). Ubisoft got around it because the FAMAS appears in Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by its real name, so why not MGS4? And I was wrong; the FAMAS is coded within the MGS2 demo, but it is only accessible [http://youtu.be/MxfMCXcpGx8 via a code]. And actually there are a few uses for the pressure-sensitive buttons in MGS2--without them you bang your head against a locker ventilation grille when trying to look out, alerting any nearby enemies. You also can't aim an assault rifle without the pressure-sensitive controls, which made controlling them on the PC next to impossible. Another problem is you can't lower a pistol without firing it if you don't let go of the aiming button gently (I got around this on the PC version by unequipping my weapon). Finally, the distance you throw grenades is determined by how hard you press the pressure-sensitive button (but they were almost useless anyway since throwing a frag or flashbang grenade automatically causes an alert upon detonation and frags have a small damage radius). All this made for a frustratingly bad PC port, which is why I caved in and got the PS2 version afterwards. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 15:20, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

Well, made a start before realising I'm going to have to crop the borders off every image by hand. :( Ah well, they're just placeholders anyway just so we can get rid of the IGN watermarks and have actual game images. For now they can keep the borders and I'll replace them all when I do this page properly. I hope you appreciate my sacrifice, I had to uninstall Vanquish to get these. Stupid 40 gig PS3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:35, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Good work so far Tim. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:40, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

*Ok, I'll put up the explosives later today (since we don't have them at all). I'm fairly sure the railgun qualifies as reasonably believable; it was actually built as a physical object (a wooden MoCap prop) and looks like an XM25 that's eaten its Wheaties. And then everyone else's Wheaties. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:29, 24 May 2011 (CDT)

Anyone remember where the PMCs with standalone Masterkeys show up? I think it's somewhere in Act 2, but I can't remember if you have to cause an alert or if they're just ahead of where I stopped recording (partway through Confinement Facility). Also, don't worry, the shots aren't all going to be from Act 2. Also added a spoiler warning since, well, I can hardly ''not'' have a shot of A Certain Person holding the Patriot, and the fourth Act being on Shadow Moses is kind of a spoiler too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:07, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:There's definitely at least one in the Confinement Facility, check out about 10:50 of this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg87rbI3CXU#t=10m50s], there's a guard with one who shows up with one at the right edge of the screen (pretty sure he always respawns there with a Masterkey). --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:27, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

::Naw, that's an XM320, he's one of the pair I've got a shot of in that section. You can hear a "phut" rather than a shotgun blast when he fires. But I know there's people with standalone Masterkeys somewhere, because I remember being puzzled at why on earth you would create such a thing. (edit) Ah, MG Wiki says there's one at the gate of Vista Mansion. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:Also, considering all the shit that fits inside Metal Gear Mk. 2 (50 Stingers, 50 Javelins, 50 LAWs, a Barrett, a railgun the size of a pony, etc) why does it never occur to Snake to hide inside it himself? I know they kind of joked about it with Snake being able to pocket a drum can that's bigger than he is, but still. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:36, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

It's called a "Hyperspace Arsenal." I would be all for a realistic mode that forced you to carry guns that are too big right from the beginning of a mission rather than have them delivered by the mini-Metal Gear, or have you collect them after a period of time after "requesting" them at a cache location dropped off by Drebin, or else only be able to transfer/launder/buy ammo just after meeting Drebin in cutscenes. Still, that wouldn't address the other realism issues this game has, such as how the NPCs are indestructible--shouldn't shooting them with .50 BMG weapons or high explosives blow off limbs or reduce them to ludicrous gibs? And what about the octocamo system; wouldn't the human eye only be realistically fooled if Snake was hiding in foliage or else, quite some distance away, lest the enemies spot his outline and start shooting at Snake?

In any case, do you think you could also include tidbits on which guns need to be laundered and which don't need to be? It'd be a nice tidbit, since the entry already includes which guns are available in multiplayer and which aren't. I'm very much looking forward to seeing more great screenshots of this game's guns--do you think it'd be possible for you to equip stealth camo and enter First Person view so we can see NPCs with holding their guns up close?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:06, 29 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'm afraid I don't have stealth camo (I can never resist firing LAWs at Strykers :() but I tend to prefer wider shots with things actually going on in them; just focusing right in on the gun makes the page rather dull to look through, IMO (I ''hate'' those CoD page images with everything cropped out but one corner of the screen; just imagine if you took the shot of Dirty Harry holding his revolver in the "do you feel lucky?" scene and cut out everything but the revolver). Also, I'm fairly sure the player and world models for weapons are exactly the same in this game. Still, it's not that hard to get close when you're recording video rather than taking individual screenshots, and it's even easier to get close to the totally broken Raven Sword AI in Act 3. Plus you can get great views of almost all the PMC weapons in cutscenes anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:53, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

I didn't mean cropping the images so that only the guns are visible; I was just saying that with Stealth camo you could get within punching (or kissing) distance of the various NPCs in the game so you could get good pics of them holding their weapons without the annoying black-screen parts from scopes or the HUD marks in the centre of the screen if you use Snake's binocular's or the mini-Metal Gear's camera view. Also, could you please please please make a screenshot of the FROG firing her DSR-1 at Big Mama followed by the latter's "I'm fine" despite not wearing any body armour? I find it one of the more unintentionally hilarious parts of the game. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 16:15, 30 May 2011 (CDT)

:I'll be sure to get that, yes. Though for me the funniest sequence was the part before the "guns of the Patriots" part, where the US Army were pointing guns at Liquid Ocelot's boat and making clicking noises for so long it became ridiculous. Of course the Foxdie scene was funnier, but probably intentional (Snake and Liquid do the "Fox..." "...Die" bit, Liquid Ocelot jumps up and runs away cackling ridiculously and Snake responds by falling over). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

Heh heh, it's funny how after the "Guns of the Patriots" scene, Drebin's prices fall flat on their faces with a permanent 50% discount until the end of the game. Of course, that raises the question about why Drebin's prices never go up; wouldn't the complete lock-out of ID-locked firearms mean that the services of gun launderers like Drebin would be more in demand than ever (resulting in a huge price increase), even if just to keep the Rebels who use naked guns from killing all the ID-locked gun users? It's just another entry in the long list of this game's realism problems. And of course, the first FOXDIE scene is another manifestation of how wrong it was to let Kojima direct the game, since he's so firmly stuck in MGS1's shadow the plot of MGS4 is so firmly stuck in the first game's mold. Of course, that's got nothing to do with the weaponry in the game, but I'm still looking forward to this page's completion nonetheless. By the way, have you seen Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN!" ability in Metal Gear Online yet?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:47, 31 May 2011 (CDT)

:I must admit I've never played MGO. As for Kojima, I think he was at his best in MGS3 when he was making a tribute to something he loved (the old spy movies that had inspired the series in the first place, with their cool gadgets and ridiculous villians) and he's at his worst when he's trying to force out a game he seems to have regarded as his obligation; I remember that he didn't really want to be involved in 4 and only came back on board after the fans raised a stink about his being absent. He strikes me as a lot like Lucas, who was great when he was making a tribute to the old-fashioned sci-fi he grew up with and hideous when he was left making something he didn't really care for except as a way to make money. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:57, 1 June 2011 (CDT)

Funny that you mentioned George Lucas. I have to wonder whether or not Kojima took some inspiration from Lucas when he decided to make his newest, completely over-referenced MacGuffin: nanomachines that do almost everything, from track biological functions to serve as ID keys, even form the basis for mind control or emotional manipulation. Kind of reminded me of Lucas' "midi-chlorians," since the two of them are both blood-borne squiggly things. Oh well, the fans, like everyone else, don't always know how what they want isn't necessarily what they need. And even the greatest of us can succumb to "Creator's Conceit," whereupon one starts believing in the delusion that "because I made this best-selling piece of media, I can change it however I want, heedless of the needs of believability, plausibility, realism or even my own previous work." Ocelot's "THINK AGAIN" ability in Metal Gear Online can be seen in full force [http://youtu.be/XM7yc5Gf_OU here]. You should give Metal Gear Online a try if you have the money; its training mode is great for taking pictures of the unique characters and their weapons, and it is the only mode where you can use the ballistic shield, or hear the various multiplayer characters do their Rambo impressions while firing an M60E4. Once again, a hearty thank you for your hard work. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:26, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think I'm immune to stupid depictions of nanomachines after playing the two ''Deus Ex'' games, expecially the second one where you apparently have a nanoforge in every weapon that makes the relevant ammo type out of a universal base material ''as you fire''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:53, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

:Also, I'm trying to remember: I know there's no flashback of Vulcan Raven, but wasn't there one of Sniper Wolf that showed her PSG-1 at one point? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:59, 2 June 2011 (CDT)

::The various flashbacks in Act 4 can be found [http://youtu.be/81A3yb_FATg here] and [http://youtu.be/aznWCpBYkKQ here]. You can check those out at your leisure. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 12:50, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

:::The links you're posting don't work [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:59, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

::Pardon me, they're fixed now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:13, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Right, that's me out for today, getting sleepy. Got a lot more caps to get off this Act 1 video, though. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:13, 3 June 2011 (CDT)

:I think if you see Sniper Wolf's PSG-1 it's part of Crying Wolf's death scene or Naomi's (I seem to recall there's an X button prompt when Otacon is getting upset about that whole thing where everyone he displays the slightest affection for dies instantly), which that doesn't have. Regardless, been a little busy, but should have some new caps up soon. I'm trying to get everything with a Browning M2, so IIRC I still need the Stryker MGS from Act 2, the Humvee in Act 3 and the derelict M1 tank in the hanger in Act 4. I'll finally be able to take that "Incomplete" down once I get a shot of Rex, Ray or one of ''Missouri's'' Phalanxes. Also might see if I can ID those two giant cannons on Liquid's boat, at least in a caption. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:10, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was right, you ''do'' have an X button flashback there. There's also a painting of Big Boss holding his old Mark 22 in Big Mama's church, because it makes sense for one of those to be there. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:12, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

Having never had a chance to really pay attention to the Vamp / Raiden fight until now, I must admit I laughed my ass off at the part where Raiden has both arms pinned to his back and so blocks Vamp's arm and then throws him using only his teeth. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:36, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Ok, going to be redoing all these caps soon (seen [[Dark Sector]] for why, comparing the new shots with the ones of the Spectre and G36; I've now got an official Sony component cable, so the red after-image from my third-party cable on the [[Bodycount]] page is gone). Going to be kind of "fun" trying to get the same shots all over again, I'll probably be updating all the basic weapon images tomorrow or so and then starting on recording the levels. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:53, 24 September 2011 (CDT)

:The things we do for this wiki . . . well, I'm glad you're willing to get more screenshots over something that isn't very visible on the thumbnails. Are you talking about the red-tinged edges that can be seen on some of your screenshots on the Bodycount page? That's known as chromatic abberration, but I can't see much of it on the MGS4 screenshots myself. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:01, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::Naw, the red was just why I was holding out for the Sony cable, that's why it isn't on the Dark Sector images (I now have it). The reason I'm going to replace these images is they're taken using a much lower-resolution capture device than the one I now have (a Pinnacle Dazzle rather than a Hauppage HD-PVR). You'll see the difference. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:45, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

OK, here's the difference:

[[Image:MGS4-1911Cus.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[Image:MGS4-M1911Cus-HQ.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
I'll resize the rest to 1280x720 or so rather than all of them being as big as that one, it's kinda unnecessary when they're only shown on the page at 600px anyway. The weird effect at full resolution is how the pause menu is actually supposed to look, to those not familiar with MGS4. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:50, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:YES. Better resolution is ALWAYS welcome. Looking forward to seeing more MGS "gun porn" in HD, as well as seeing some other issues resolved (such as whether the M10 and M60E4 are closed-bolt firearms in this game or their original open-bolt versions, just how Old Snake holds the M10 in a two-handed fashion with no foregrip, suppressor, or strap to put his offhand on, etc.). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 07:01, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::If Snake is holding the MAC-10 in a two-handed grip without the aid of an foregrip, suppressor, or strap, he would hold it in a Weaver-stance or a CAR-stance. I saw a screen shot of him using the MAC-10 and he held it in a Weaver-stance like a handgun while utilizing the stock, which makes good practical sense. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:28, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:I see. Regardless, I'm surprised that Kojima didn't slap on a "modernizing conversion" for the MAC-10 in this game, such as made available by [http://www.max-11.com/ Lage Mfg], which in short makes the gun much easier to handle by increasing the length of the barrel and handguard to add space for rails (and their accessories), a foregrip and folding buttstock, along with a mechanism that reduces the rate of fire to 600 RPM from 1100 RPM. This sort of conversion kit would essentially turn the MAC-10 into a close competitor for the HK UMP, except that this "MAX-10" version would be easier to instinctively reload since the magazine goes in the pistol grip. Too bad that the only .45 SMG in this game just isn't that good; whatever else can be said about the MAC-10, ergonomics were clearly not emphasized in its original design. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:45, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

::From what I know, the MAC-10 has inferior reliability compared to the UZI and pretty much any other SMG design. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:07, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

Just a couple of new images tonight, going to do the rest of this video tomorrow. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:44, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and here's Otacon explaining why the AK jammed:

[[Image:MGS4-Otaconsez.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"Also, there was apparently more than one cartridge in the chamber. That might have been a problem too."]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:48, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:I think that's pretty cool he explains what possibly happened to the weapon, you don't get that in very many games. But it still doesn't explains ''how'' this happened to an AK, I could expect that from an AR, but an AK? Like I said on the page, Snake must have REALLY bad luck. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:25, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

::Well, he's not the only one, I noticed at least one of the rebels struggling with the charging handle of his AK during the same sequence. It must just be ''really'' bad ammo. Maybe it's special ''Far Cry 2'' ammo made from blasting caps and dynamite. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:36, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

:::I think you just solved it mate. ;) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:20, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

Had a few problems with my footage being blurry (not in the shots I actually uploaded, mind) which I think is my old PC. A suitably beefy PC should be winging it's way to me in the next couple of weeks. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:45, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

:I've already had my new beefed-up PC a couple of weeks. :D Now I'm counting down the days for BF3. >:B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:09, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

::Then let us do as men have done for centuries and compare the lengths of our, um, computers. Mine's going to be an i7 2600K overclocked to 4.6 GHz, SLI 2 x 1,536 meg GeForce cards, 16 gigs RAM, 120 gig SSD + 3 terabyte data drive. I imagine it'll just be able to scare Crysis into running. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 23:05, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== Screenshot requests ==

I know Evil Tim's busy, but this might be a good opportunity to let him know what screenshots might be appropriate to showcase each weapon.
*Five-seveN pistol: Old Snake commits "sexual assault" at gunpoint by holding up a FROG trooper with her own pistol while patting her down for items, along with the "crotch grab" move.
*MAC-10/G18C: Old Snake tries out for a movie of "Bonnie and Clyde" while performing a drive-by shooting from Big Mama's motorcycle.
*M4 Custom: For some reason, Old Snake has taken up the habit of shooting this carbine while holding it sideways.
*Shansi Type 17: Big Mama gets her awesome on by shooting up some Dwarf Gekko drones with her Type 17 pistol.
*MP7A1: Isn't there a PMC in Act 2 carrying this weapon who is distracted by a Playboy Magazine?
Sometimes funny screenshots make entries on this wiki all the more entertaining to read. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 4 June 2011 (CDT)

*Might try that
*Almost certainly going to do something like that
*When does he hold it sideways, again?
*Yes
*Yes

Also, totally going to show how you can kill a Gekko with the SVD. Just a note: you don't have to call him Old Snake in every caption. The game only calls him that occasionally and he's "Snake" the rest of the time, and it's not like this is MGS1 and there's two people potentially called "Snake" (even in that case, they always call him Snake and his brother Liquid, so there's only minimal potential for confusion). I could see there being some issues with what to call Big Boss in 3, but this guy is still Snake. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:06, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:I call him "Old Snake" because that's the name above his lifebar, and because that name clearly refers to him in the MGS4 time period. Of course, if you really want to be pedantic, it could be argued that Liquid Snake and Solid Snake should have called each other Liquid and Solid instead of Liquid and Snake (I think the latter combination was chosen because it sounds less silly). If you prefer to just call him Snake in the article, feel free to change that part pack. And Old Snake holds his M4A1 carbine sideways once when engaging the Pieuvre Armement PMCs who are taking Naomi away after headshotting Vamp. Another US Marine aboard the Missouri holds his M4A1 Carbine while trembling with fear as the Dwarf Gekkos execute a boarding action right outside the Missouri's bridge. That's all I can remember right now. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:37, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and if you want to show the Vulcan Cannons on the Missouri battleship, shouldn't you include the dramatic close-up shot of its CIWS cannons firing like hell trying to intercept the swarm of anti-ship missiles launched from Outer Haven? The one available now only shows the CIWS cannons in a distant shot. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:58, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:The one you're thinking of is a rather dull closeup of the installation from the ''rear'', I wanted this one because it shows the main guns and looks awesome. The Phalanx shots are exclusively taken to show off ''Missouri'', the installations can piss off. :P [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:15, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

Incidentally

[[Image:MGS4-M61-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Ray should not have been allowed to use the hydrocutter as it's opening attack. >:( Also, just noticed that half the "Street Fighter" attacks use the beak to grab Ray, even though it's where Snake is sitting and at least two of them would clearly kill him. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Question ==

Do real suppressors degrade like in MGS3 and MGS4? I think not, or at least it's ''very'' exaggerated in these game. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:50, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:old style wipe suppressors do degrade over time. Maxim type supressors and supressors designed after the 1960s don't degrade. You will have to clean them out after combat load but with the lenght of most computer games it should not be an issue as there isn't the time for junk to build up to the point where the supressor will fail. Basically if you take the time to clean you equipment every so often things should't go bad. [[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 21:32, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
::Thank you. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:45, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
:Yep, suppressors in this game are another problem with its realism. The wipe-style suppressors in MGS3 would indeed degrade, sometimes after as low as 5 to 10 shots. Modern suppressors can last for thousands of rounds of semiautomatic fire, but less if fully-automatic fire is used.
:In reality, detachable suppressors fitted to weapons with supersonic ammunition (Drebin doesn't sell subsonic versions of normally supersonic ammunition, such as 5.56mm NATO, 7.62mm NATO, etc.) would not be as stealthy as depicted, especially at the ranges you fight at in this game. Try dropping a phone book from a height of 5 feet (or 150 cm in metric) onto a hard floor that is not covered by a rug or carpet--that's close to what even the best suppressors can do. At most of the ranges you shoot at in this game, real people would definitely notice (if not necessarily know where you are) and would immediately trigger a caution phase unless your first shot killed someone who was all by his lonesome. Suppressors can't deal with the sonic boom caused by supersonic ammunition, either, which can alert people. This is why the quietest suppressed weapons use subsonic ammunition (such as .45 ACP, or Russian 9x39mm ammo, etc.), or a special integral suppressor (like that on the MP5SD2) that slows supersonic ammunition down to subsonic speeds. Even that doesn't do anything for the clacking noises caused by the cycling of a (semi)automatic weapon's action, which is why the tranquilizer pistols in MGS2, 3, and 4 all use slide locks to eliminate that.
:Another problem is that suppressors, by slowing down the hot gas from fired rounds, cause a gun to overheat faster (because the slowed gas has more time to impart its heat to the weapon). Again, this is generally not a problem unless you forgo all fire discipline and keep firing in full auto; then you might have reason to detach an overheated suppressor and put a new one in place. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:08, 6 June 2011 (CDT)
Last time I helped put rounds through a MP5 with a detachable suppressor it took a bit for the suppressor to cool enough that it could be removed from the barrel. Of course we put 120 rounds through it with mostly magazine dumps as we were just testing the guns function.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 22:36, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

Thanks guys. Well a suppressor is not meant to suppress gun fire so people in the same room can't hear it, it's meant so people in the whole building and in the city outside the building can't hear it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:46, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:Oops, forgot to mention that another way to remove the "clack-clack" sounds of a firearm's action (which can be louder than a suppressed gun's muzzle blast if the suppressor is good enough), aside from slide locks. Any type of round cycling that needs to be manually operated (such as bolt action, pump-action, etc.) will eliminate that sound. Too bad the DSR-1 couldn't be suppressed in this game; combined with its bolt action you'd get a very powerful, quiet, and lethal counterpart to the Mosin Nagant tranq rifle. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 00:45, 10 June 2011 (CDT)

== Just checking something ==

Of the M4, Drebin says "The barrel's free floating, of course." Now, you can see from the shot of Snake firing that even the ''handguard'' isn't free-floating, but isn't it a contradiction in terms for a direct impingement rifle to have a free-floating barrel since the barrel ''has'' to be touching something other than the receiver, namely the gas tube? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:08, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:I hear of free-floating barrels on AR-15s all the time, I think "free-floating" means nothing but the receiver (and the gas tube) is holding the barrel in place. At least, that's what I know. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:36, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
It could be a bit of "Kojima nonsense" that snuck its way into the script (kind of like how Drebin claims the PMCs love to use the M4A1 Carbine, when in fact none of them do, and the game gives you the impression that Drebin is just foisting off old, obsolete stock onto Old Snake). After all, are we really supposed to believe that Fatman from Metal Gear Solid 2 built his first atomic bomb(!) at age 10? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:56, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
::I guess it could also be a translation error of some kind, since there's a few of those knocking around; I've just got to the first case of them mangling a symmetrical sentence by having Naomi alternate "fate" and "destiny" rather than just saying "it" the second time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:41, 14 June 2011 (CDT)
:Or it could be Kojima's notoriously inconsistent stance on the realism/unrealism scale, especially when it comes to weaponry. First in MGS2 they let us render any enemy limb useless in a single lethal weapon hit (a feature that never returned), but in that same game they let us use the Stinger Missile Launcher indoors (even though that kind of weapon would cause a cave-in or flooding in the Plant chapter). And now they ask us to believe that in some scenes, professional PMC operators can't hit Snake when he's in spitting distance (such as after he shoot Vamp in the head in South America). That scene might have worked if he was hiding some distance away using Octocamo, though. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:07, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

Oh, and one more thing about the M4A1 in this game; why would you need to have a free-floating barrel on an automatic carbine? Wouldn't it just be simpler to insert a longer barrel, which would increase both accuracy and the bullet's effective range? Or, if you have the resources, you could always use better rounds (like the real life Mk 262) which have both longer effective range and accuracy than the standard 5.56mm NATO rounds in service now. That speech of Drebin's just makes him look like a "used car salesman"--it reeks of hucksterism. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:04, 21 June 2011 (CDT)

== Unknown pistol ==

Any idea what this is in Johnny Sasaki's leg holster? USP, maybe?

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Unknown]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:26, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, even I'm a bit stumped, it's almost featureless. o_0 - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:12, 14 June 2011 (CDT)

::I was going by the features it doesn't have, more. It's got a horizontal base to the grip while holstered, which rules out any 1911-based pistol, but it doesn't have a beavertail bigger than the one on an actual beaver, so it can't be a Desert Eagle. It's obviously not any pistol that's available in the game unless it's a very small Mark 23, and a very small Mark 23 is called a USP. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:25, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, am I hideously mistaken or is the Mk. 46 Mod 1 actually a Mod 0? The handguard doesn't look right for a Mod 1. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:01, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:Based on what the model looks like it could be a featureless USP or P226 (it's too small for a Mark 23), but without the said "features" it's almost impossible tell what it is. It could also be just a generic "holster stuffer". :P (P.S. what's the deference between the Mk. 46 Mod 1 and the Mod 0, I've only seen the Mod 0?) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:59, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

::The forearm of the Mod 1 lacks the rail at the 12 o'clock position (FN Herestal has pictures of the Mod 1 on their website [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF055&gid=FNG008]). There's probably other differences, but either Google is failing me, or there's no info about on the Mod 1 upgrades on the entire internet. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 18:48, 15 June 2011 (CDT)

:::[http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF059&gid=FNG008&mid=FNM0039 FN USA] says "improved receiver pins, a feed tray with retention pawls and a vented handguard with improved heat shield and three MIL-STD 1913 rails." Now, I've checked the reload animation and you can see it's got a 12-o-clock rail on the handguard, so it's a Mod 0. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

::Also, of those two it'd have to be the USP, the SIG would have two screws visible holding the grips on. What I can tell you is the shape is intentional; it's ''not'' the same model used in PMC holsters; the ones I checked have a diagonal base to the grip and therefore are obviously supposed to be a GSR. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:34, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

Just to add these:

[[Image:MGS4-FROG-Holster.jpg|thumb|none|600px|FROG holster weapon, probably Five-seveN]]
[[Image:MGS4-GSR-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|PMC Holster weapon, clearly GSR.]]
[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another angle on Johnny's weapon, and one where they seem to have forgotten to add that delightful skidmark to his trousers, too.]]

Incidentally, ID'ing this one will take us up to 76 weapons with only one not ID'd (the land mine). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:25, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

But it doesn't have the finger tip-shaped slots at the mag well to be a USP ether... In the last pic of Johnny the pistol now looks like a stubby Desert Eagle because of the way the grip looks. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:53, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:Well, there should be some closer shots of it when I finally get off my ass and get around to recording and capping stage 3, there's a lot of closeups of the Rat Patrol members at the end of that one that should settle it if it actually is something. Interestingly, Meryl also has that holster as part of her uniform, but hers is empty (Deagle the first has a horizontal chest holster). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:MGS4-UnknownPistol-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

Think this is the best shot you're likely to get. Now, I'm going to bed, I just spent hours recording the entire third Act and at least half of the fourth and it's 3am. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:57, 17 June 2011 (CDT)
::In more ways than one. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:33, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

:Looks kinda like a Desert Eagle with the beavertail milled down, wow this is hard. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 23:27, 17 June 2011 (CDT)

::Seems it's actually a Mark 23, since Raiden's character weapon (aside from a heap of pointy things) is a Mark 23, and he has the same holster. Holster looks to be very similar to [http://airsoftbb4u.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=402 one of these]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:10, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::You could be right, but still looks off from a Mark 23, I see a metal tang on the grip like the Desert Eagle. Err. -_- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:04, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Might just be a mistake in the model. It's certainly supposed to be a Mark 23 (it's Raiden's only gun in multi), but since they never draw them (unlike FROGs and PMCs, who do draw their sidearms if they're disarmed), there was probably no obligation to actually put a drawable gun in there. I can't remember if Johnny pulls out his sidearm when they're defending the door or not, I'll have to see if they'll actually settle it for us or not. Otherwise we'll just have to say it's an inaccurate Mark 23. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:09, 27 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Johnny does use his sidearm there. He uses a GSR. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)

== Note about the M4 and the "big PMCs" ==
They ''did'' use the M4 in early builds of the game [http://ranger.gamebanana.com/img/ss/srends/thm__2863-.jpg] [http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/God-of-Reapers/metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-p-1.jpg], but it was changed to the Mark 17 at some point for some unknown reason. Snake even got ''his'' M4 by taking it from a PMC in an early trailer. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:11, 29 June 2011 (CDT)
:Regarding the Patriot, wouldn't it fall under the same hideously ill-defined "PDW" label as the XM8 Compact? It does rather seem that PDW just stands for whatever your marketing department wants it to: HK definately called the XM8 compact a PDW in sales fluff, and invented the term because they didn't want to call their compact MP5K the MP5 Kurz Kurz as far as I can tell. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:14, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:On the subject of the M4: the article mentions that the handguard isn't free floating like Drebin says. However, I'm pretty sure the rail is carbine length KAC URX which is free floating. Also, the MP5K-PDW isn't a compact MP5K; it's an MP5K with a stock added. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 09:01, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

::Look at the shot of Snake firing the M4 into the camera and you can see there's a circular cap on the front of the rail handguard which contacts the barrel: a KAC URX doesn't have such a cap, which is why it's free-floating while this one isn't. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:42, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

::Also the delta ring between the rail system and the receiver. URX mates with the receiver to form an uninterrupted top rail for optics. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:56, 24 November 2011 (CST)

PDW is indeed something of a term that is a bit too nebulous. I've even heard the term applied to the select-fire variant of the Mauser C96 being described as a PDW since it could mount a shoulder stock and used ammo that was "armour piercing." Still, the question I raised earlier on this page as to the point of mounting a free-floating handguard onto an M4A1 carbine remains--isn't a free-floating barrel mainly for sniper or designated marksmen weapons, not for CQB full-auto weapons? And wouldn't greater long-distance accuracy be achieved more simply by using a longer barrel or enhanced ammunition? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:09, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

:With regard to free-float rails: there's more to it than just accuracy. Keeping the rails from contacting the barrel means that any accessories mounted on the weapon will be affected less by the vibrations that occur during firing. This helps keep vertical grips and the like from coming loose, and any optics/lasers/IR designators mounted on the forearm will have an easier time retaining their zero. --[[User:Lynx|Lynx]] 15:12, 30 June 2011 (CDT)

Well, that does make a bit more sense, but it still sounds like the sort of thing a National Army wouldn't issue--though it wouldn't be out of place among civilians or Private Military Contractors. Don't National Armies train for accurate semiautomatic fire whenever possible from anything that isn't an LMG, and if you fire enough fully-automatic rounds to affect the zero of accessories mounted on the handguard, doesn't that mean you're doing something wrong? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:07, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== XM8 Compact ==

Why is the XM8 Compact under the SMG/PDW section? PDW or not, 5.56x45mm should go to the Assault rifles. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, I was considering moving it to go with the Patriot. I'll do that tomorrow assuming someone doesn't beat me to it, and I'll remove "PDW" from the other heading since it's such a vague, useless class of weapons that seems to include everything gun company marketing departments feel like including from SMGs firing pistol rounds to compact assault rifles. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:37, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

I'm not sure about that; I think PDW is still useful to describe select-fire SCHV (small caliber, high velocity) two-handed firearms using proprietary rounds purpose-built for armour-piercing properties, like the 5.7x28mm, the 4.6x30mm, the 6.5x25mm, etc. that aren't (machine) pistols. Having said that, I would agree about how the label can be abused (the MP5K-PDW should have just received an "A" designation such as the MP5KA6 or the like). Still, I have to wonder if Akiba was given the XM8 Compact to show that Meryl "wears the pants" in their relationship--at a 9-inch barrel length, the XM8 (ultra)compact carbine is shorter than Meryl's long-barrelled Desert Eagle, which is 10 inches long.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:08, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

:The trouble I have with the PDW label is either (a) it just means SMG so there's no point including it or (b) it includes all the stupid things that are called PDWs but aren't SMGs. Sure, the SCHV rounds aren't all used by pistols so not all PDWs are ''technically'' SMGs, but all PDW rounds are dimensioned like pistol cartridges and most have pistols designed and / or manufactured to shoot them anyway. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

The funny thing is, if you really want to be pedantic, an SMG is really just a select-fire pistol-caliber carbine. In my view the PDW label is still useful for a narrower class of weapons than most users of the label think, and should only be used if the weapon meets all of the following characteristics.

*Proprietary PDW rounds are designed from the ground up as armour-piercing rounds (piercing Level IIIA ballistic armour or lower), and resemble miniaturized assault rifle ammunition (by virtue of its dimensions and spitzer shape) rather than traditional pistol ammunition. So by this definition the PP-2000 would not be a PDW since it's still using 9x19mm rounds, just in an armour-piercing configuration.
*A stock and foregrip must be present on the weapon for it to be considered a PDW, since both simplify aiming (which is very important in a CQB situation). So a select-fire Five-seveN or C96 are still not PDWs (instead, they are just armour-piercing machine pistols) since it lacks the ability to have both of those features. An MP5K PDW has both a stock and foregrip but doesn't meet the first requirement, and is therefore just a compact SMG with a folding stock and small foregrip.
*A true PDW must have select-fire or fully-automatic fire capability, otherwise it just becomes a fancy carbine like the PS90.

You have to admit that PDW is a more convenient acronym than something like SCHV SMG or the like. We could just go with something like "AP (armour-piercing) SMG" but that would bring stuff like the PP-2000 back into the mix. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:27, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

::Actually, an SMG is a super-light machine gun firing a pistol round: remember the category comes from the first world war before the concept of an intermediate round even existed. And the problem is most users of the label include most companies that say their weapons are PDWs; there's such a huge number of bad examples and so few good ones that it isn't really worth using it, IMO. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:42, 3 July 2011 (CDT)

:My google-fu's rather weak right now, but aside from H&K marketing derivatives of the MP5 and XM8 as PDWs I don't know of companies that are marketing SMGs or compact assault rifles with the PDW label, when in fact they don't meet the requirements I outlined earlier. Maybe you could point me in the right direction? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 23:32, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

::Wikipedia says the Jatimatic was marketed as a PDW back when HK invented the term, and since the 5.7mm has realised its friends would still like it if it came out as a pistol round anything that fires that is basically a subgun in the normal sense of the term. Magpul's PDR Shirow-gun fires a full-sized 5.56mm, the Chinese QCW-05 fires the 5.8x21mm pistol round, the VBR-Belgium PDW fires the 7.92x24mm pistol round...It's fair to say most things called PDWs don't qualify in the strictest sense. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:00, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:The "Shirow-gun"? And here I was thinking firearms designed for Ghost in the Shell at least made some sense, even if their service pistol caliber choice was a little iffy on the stopping power side (BTW, the Seburo Firearms page should not have been removed from this wiki). PDW rounds fired out of pistols seem a little iffy to me as well; if HK had to cancel its UCP for "inadequate ballistics in a pistol platform," what makes the Five-seveN/QSZ-92/VBR 7.92 Glock that much better? In any case, the Magpul PDR is just a compact bullpup carbine in 5.56mm NATO, and the 5.8x21mm round (how is this better than the 5.7x28mm round again?) is a miniaturized version of the Chinese 5.8x42mm assault rifle round, which makes it a PDW round. Maybe we could compromise and call them "CQDWs" for "Close Quarters Defensive Weapons" to show how they are meant to be stowed in "Close Quarters" and are most effective in CQB range as well, given their shorter cases compared to full-size assault rifle rounds? Making a poll on the forum asking whether or not the PDW label should be expunged from the site might be useful as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:23, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

::Again, though, I don't really see the point of using a label that's just going to cause a lot of confusion with not-examples and pseudo-examples. Anything that is categorised as a PDW in the strictest sense is basically an SMG firing AP ammunition. Not using the term rules out all the various pistols and assault rifles that would otherwise sneak into the SMG heading through the vague backdoor marked "PDW." It's sorta like having a category called "Dogs / mammals" next to one saying "cats" and expecting cats to not end up in the dog category. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

:I lol'ed at what you said about Akiba and Meryl. :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:15, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

Yep, then Akiba tries to "man up" by getting the Barrett M82A2, but then finds he can't "last long." He definitely would have lasted longer if he had gotten something capable of "sustained fire" instead, like the Mk. 46 Mod. 0 coupled with an FN P90 of his own, so either he or Meryl could use the LMG for covering fire while the other goes out to loot P90 magazines from dead FROG troopers and keep wreaking merry hell as long as possible. But no, Kojima had to saddle Akiba with an incredibly impractical Barrett M82A2 (only really useful for killing larger Gekko drones and annoying unmanned Metal Gear RAYs), his old XM8 Compact and a GSR. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 17:23, 1 July 2011 (CDT)

== The MAC-10 in this game ==

Is it an open bolt (the original version) or a closed bolt version? An open bolt version wouldn't need charging after reloading, and wouldn't need to be racked unless the trigger was held down after the last round fired (after which you'd just pull it back to ready the weapon). If the MAC-10 in this game were a closed bolt version, then you would need rack the bolt if you were loading from empty and would indeed eject a round if one were still in the chamber if you racked the bolt. If Old Snake is ejecting a round from the MAC-10 after a mid-magazine reload, then wouldn't it be a closed version? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:27, 6 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'd have to check. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:09, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Another thing you might want to examine is the M60E4; it's still an open bolt weapon last I checked (partly because open bolt weapons run cooler than closed bolt ones, an advantage on an LMG since it means you don't have to change barrels as often). Also, is the M60E4 supposed to be the "very latest model" that the rebel in the Middle Eastern Militia Safe House was boasting about? It would make more sense than an HK21E, since some PMC machine gunners use the M60E4 and it is "the very latest model" of its kind. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 04:45, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Again, I'll check. In the latter case, I imagine the "very latest model" was probably supposed to be the XM8 LMG: it's the only version missing from the final game. Perhaps they gave the guy the HK21 instead because their playtesters would always kill him to get themselves a free 5.56mm machine gun with a built-in optic. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:30, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

Please do. Your considerable efforts on this page are much appreciated. But it wouldn't be the first time a game has used closed bolt versions of weapons that were originally open bolt; Rainbow Six Vegas 2 uses a closed bolt version of the MAC-11 machine pistol, for instance. And the XM8 LMG was always a strange one to me; while the other variants had good advantages for reliability and ease of use for their roles (since their sights didn't need zeroing, had more durable/reliable parts, along with infrared laser pointer/illuminators built into the sight), the XM8 LMG does not have a quick-swap barrel (unlike the M249, for instance) and is a closed bolt weapon which would make its heat buildup more problematic, despite the tougher barrel. In any case, all the game devs had to do to make the XM8 LMG would be to stick a Beta C-mag on the Marksman version of the XM8, since you can't use bipods in this game. The XM8 LMG would have been great in Johnathan's hands, and the standard carbine would then be given to Akiba. Even so, giving that boastful rebel an M60E4 would still require that you spend the money for accessories on a new game, so it wouldn't be as imbalanced as an XM8 LMG.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:34, 8 July 2011 (CDT)

== The "PMCs love the (M4)" line ==

In my edit I did NOT specify which voice track language I was referring to (for all I know, that line could also have been in the original JP version). What I was commenting on was how the recording for that scene was probably done before the decision was made to have the PMC guys use the SCAR-H rather than have them actually use the M4-type carbines (as seen in the preview images someone posted earlier). While not wrong to begin with, the fact that they didn't go back to re-do that scene based on the new weapon assignment leave me scratching my head. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 01:26, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Yeah, but it's hardly the only strange mistake made in that scene; Drebin also says it has a free-floating barrel even though there's clearly a circular end cap connecting the rail handguard to the barrel, and also that the US Army uses it even though in-game they don't. It's hard to say if it's something that used to be true, a mistake, or just Drebin playing salesman and hoping Snake doesn't notice the more obvious BS in his pitch. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:43, 7 July 2011 (CDT)

:Just my personal observation, but I don't think Drebin's 'pretty popular with the big PMCs' line must necessarily mean that the M4 Custom is their standard-issue weapon. Maybe, in-universe, this version of the M4 is perhaps more like a weapon custom-made by the Drebins, and naturally sold exclusively by them. Perhaps he refers to veteran members of the PMCs buying them with their own fundings? Just my theory here, maybe I'm looking too much into it. --[[User:Researcher|Researcher]] 21:01, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

:It's also a possibility that ''everyone'' used the M4 Custom in a previous build of the game and the changes were made after the voice overs were recorded. There's really nothing in the game to prove the M4 isn't still the US Army's standard combat weapon. Meryl's "Army/Marines" team is a very, very, very small fraction of the entire US military and them using XM8s means nothing, otherwise HK416 use by Delta Force is proof that that weapon is used by the whole US Army, which we all know isn't true. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:39, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

::The problem is we have no evidence at all of that being the case; the only standard rifle we see any US soldier using during the duration of the game is the XM8, and the only one the PMCs use is the SCAR. Made-up reasoning to fill over a hole in the game world's logic is referred to in some circles as "plot spackle." To go with your example, if the US Army were fictional and we had only ever seen soldiers with HK416s, it would be correct to say we have no evidence the US Army uses anything but the HK416, and if someone said they used the M4, we would point out we've never actually seen them do so and the HK416 appears to be their standard weapon. When interpreting fiction, seeing is believing; characters can lie, exaggerate and be wrong, but a bunch of guys carrying one gun and not the other is a pretty airtight argument as ti which weapon they use. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:39, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just found out something interesting... ==

HD remakes of all the previous games are apparently being released on PSN and possibly Live in November, so I'll hold out for them before screencapping those pages. Apparently they're going to sling in ''Peace Walker'' for PS3, too. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:15, 9 July 2011 (CDT

:Are they going to retexture MGS2 and MGS3 for this collection? I hope so, because MGS2 is horribly bland with its textures, far more than MGS3 was. I'd do MGS2 myself, I don't have a capture card and the PC version I have is not well programmed for PC graphics cards, so you often end up with a lot of graphical errors. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 11:48, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

::From the sounds of things it's going to be retextured MGS2, retextured MGS3 and probably retextured Twin Snakes running in the MGS4 engine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:02, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

:::That sounds cool. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

Last I heard it was only for the X Box 360. Good news that it's being released on the PS3 as well. Might mean that we're going to see it on the PC (fingers crossed). --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 15:10, 9 July 2011 (CDT)

== Drebins Camo Trousers ==
hi guys, wondering if anyone can tell me that make/pattern drebins trousers are, i mean obviously they are desert but im not sure what brand.

[http://images.wikia.com/metalgear/images/c/ca/DrebinMGS4.jpg] --[[User:Sike|Sike]] 10:48, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

Pattern would be something like "desert tiger stripe" and there's a similar-looking set of trousers [http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/original_desert_tiger_stripe.htm here]. His look to be bleached a bit lighter or something, but it's the same basic pattern. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 11:04, 14 July 2011 (CDT)

== A minor controversy over the Operator suicide scene ==

The English voice actor of Old Snake, David Hayter, caused a minor controversy among gaming journalists and the MGS fandom when he said he [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rH-cYUiogI didn't find Old Snake's reluctance to commit suicide to be believable]. Now that the relevant screenshot is in this wiki entry, I thought it deserved some explanation. In David Hayter's words, he says ''". . . Snake would put a bullet in, and put [the gun] in his mouth and just pop himself, like he's killed--he's killed how many countless thousands of people, and he's going to shake because he's going to kill himself? I didn't agree with that at all and begged them to change it . . . ."'' --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:05, 29 July 2011 (CDT)

:Hm, I don't really buy that. He's killed ''other'' people, sure, but confronting the end of your own existence and what might come next isn't going to be easy unless you're incredibly secure in your convictions as to what will happen (and Snake hardly strikes me as devoutly religious) or too stupid to comprehend that's what you're doing. It's not like it's a spur of the moment "I have to do this" thing, after all. Mind you, I really don't think we needed to see him going down on the Operator for quite as long as he did. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:45, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

Even so, I think he's used to fearlessly facing death, even if it's virtually certain (such as when he faced Metal Gear REX before Grey Fox intervened in MGS1, or during his hopeless duel with Fortune in MGS2). And "going down on the Operator"--that's a nice wordplay. Still, I think it's a little disappointing how what comes next is available at any difficulty--it would be more of an incentive to play on harder difficulties if you only got the complete scene after doing something such as completing the Boss Extreme difficulty or getting a Big Boss emblem. Otherwise, you'd only see:

*Old Snake smoking a last cig before fading to black and the last gunshot after finishing Liquid Easy.
*The scene where he sucks his gun off (again fading to black with the last gunshot) after finishing Solid Normal.
*A short cut after the final gunshot showing the gun and its smoking barrel in Old Snake's gnarled hand, fading to black after finishing Big Boss Hard.
*And the complete ending scene after finishing The Boss Extreme.

It would also have been a nice touch if you got to see the ghostly forms of all the people you killed throughout the game or the people Old Snake couldn't save (which means, at a minimum, Liquid Ocelot, Naomi and Big Mama) surrounding Old Snake in the cemetery as he puts the gun in his mouth, as he will join them in death very soon. Such a scene would be a nice reference to the Sorrow's River in MGS3. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 13:42, 30 July 2011 (CDT)

*I don't know, facing almost certain death is different to facing ''actual'' certain death, especially when it's for something as abstract as the human race rather than something as concrete as someone right in front of you. Also, in both those cases his other option was being killed by the thing he was facing, so he ''didn't'' pick the "certain death" option. Also, given Naomi's record for telling the truth, he's probably worried that shooting himself would just make the bullet ricochet off his superior genes, kill the person who was ''actually'' going to cure the disease and overpenetrate to also kill the world's most adorable kitten which was behind that guy. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:18, 31 July 2011 (CDT)

I think the best real world explanation on why Snake's Operator locked back when he had no mag was that he could have possibly pressed the slide release up and hence locking it back by accident. I've seen people accidentally lock the slide back when they accidentally push the slide release up with a loaded mag in. It could have just been the mistake of the animator that they drew a mag follower when there shouldn't have been a mag inside the gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:56, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

A buddy of mine told me that dropping a round into the chamber like what Snake did would really risk accidentally setting the gun off and he seriously tells me to never do that in real life for any gun [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:26, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::Hideo Kojima thinks so as well. He was forced to add that scene after the credits, I hear. In his mind, Snake did kill himself-protoAuthor 17:31, 24 November 2011 (CST)

:::Actually the original ending would have been Snake and Otacon being hanged for treason (it's not clear who by). Hence "Here's to you" over the credits, which is about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_and_Vanzetti these two]. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:57, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

"Also, given Naomi's record for telling the truth..." ...makes me facepalm at how proponents of the suicide ending stick to her claims of Snake becoming a biological weapon as if they're the words of Jesus himself. Seriously, if someone attempted to assassinate ''you'' with a biological weapon and that person later told you that you were in danger of ''becoming'' a biological weapon, would you really actually believe that person? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:14, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== Operator ==

I think Snake's main 1911 is closer to a TRP Operator than a standard MC Operator. It has a Target cut rear sight, full length guide rod, extended magazine well and front strap checkering. Standard MEUSOC 1911s like the MC Operator and the Kimber Warrior don't have these features. I know it's not a huge difference but I think it may be worth mentioning.
:I just realized that TRPs are usually bushingless. I think it's more of a frankengun with features from both but I still think it's closer to the TRP so I changed the picture. Hope no one minds.
::I think we'll stick with the MC, it's heavily modified from either regardless of what it originally might have been. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:57, 31 August 2011 (CDT)

== screenshots ==

I've taken some screen shots from MGS4 of most of the guns from a side on view I've uploaded a few as an example. The first is snake loading a cartridge into the breech of the thor, the second you can see the compensator working on the G18C, the third is snake screaming Rambo style. [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:THOR_breech_load.jpg]] [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:G18C_working_compensator.jpg]] [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Rambo_Scream.jpg]]
I've got more like them if anyone wants me to upload them just want to see what you think. [[User:Whatmename|Whatmename]]

You couldn't have taken bigger screen shots? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 22:31, 2 October 2011 (CDT)

:<s>Certainly doable, yes. I'm going to be re-doing all the other shots when I have some time off work next month, I'll pick those up at the same time.</s> Edit: oh, wait, that wasn't Excalibur asking me to take bigger ones. Nevermind, I'll take bigger ones of those things, Whatmename, don't worry about uploading yours. Best that every shot comes from the same capture device and method, it makes the page look tidier. Besides, we don't really need side-on shots of most of the weapons since we've already got the inventory images for that. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:09, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

I think that screenshot from the G18C shows that the muzzle flash doesn't quite fit where the compensator port is supposed to be. I think the only video games I've seen that correctly emulate the compensated muzzle flash are Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 1 and 2. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:21, 3 October 2011 (CDT)

== M4 Custom RAS ==

Regarding the confusion regarding the RAS on the M4 custom.

The in game RAS resembles two offerings from KAC, the Carbine RAS and the free floating RAS.
[http://www.knightarmco.com/mod_weapons_1.htm Knights ArmCo RAS]

The carbine RAS replaces the standard handguards and is secured with the default delta ring and end-cap.
The free floating RAS replaces the entire handguard, including the delta ring; replacing it with a visually distinctive locking ring. The end-cap in not employed.

The in-game model has the locking ring from the free-floating RAS but the end-cap from the carbine RAS.

IMHO this was done so that the game engine wouldn't have to render the interior surfaces for the RAS and barrel.

:Given we have other errors due to using airsoft guns as models, I think it's more likely that they used an airsoft replica. A cheaply made plastic RAS might have issues with snapping off if it wasn't secured at both ends. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:47, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:Also, I'm going to be replacing almost every picture on this page with HD versions soon, so don't worry too much about new ones, it just gives me more work. Put any suggestions here or on my talk page. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 19:02, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

== Playing this again and disappointed in weapons ==

Decided to pop this back in and am a bit disappointed on how limited the guns are. The M4 is really the only gun you can fully accessorize and even then it was limited to what was available at the time of development. I didn't like the old style Aimpoint sight, no EOtech sight and I couldn't customized other guns like putting a red dot on the MP5. or the FAL. Since I've first played this game, I've learned how to shoot guns and I am a bit put off on how Snake not using the mag release button on rifles and ejecting a live round for only rifles and for some reason, not the handguns. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:05, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I'm playing through this one again, too. I think that the gun ''selection'' is good, but I'm with you on the customization. They really could have explored more options as far as accessories go. As for him not using the bolt catch and ejecting live rounds...well, Snake is a professional, and I guess he has his own way of doing things. There's not really anything wrong with either of those (well, ejecting chambered rounds is pretty weird). It's like how some people drop the slide on a pistol with the slide lock, while some rack and release the slide. --[[User:ColonelTomb|ColonelTomb]] 22:43, 11 May 2012 (CDT)

Selection-wise there are a lot of odd guns in my opinion. There's no reason why the Middle Eastern Rebels couldn't have been using AKMs or AK-74s, and Big Mama's resistance members could also be using them as well. The HK21E has absolutely ZERO reason to be in the game (you could have just replaced the Rebel's HK21E with an M60E4 and everything would be hunky-dory rather than with the nonsensical dialogue the Rebel spouts about the HK21E being "the very latest model"). The XM8 should have been the full-length model to give better damage retention at range than the M4A1 (and should have been given a suppressor as well). And no revolvers, despite Ocelot being in the game? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:50, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

Despite how overrated and in many games now, the ACR should be in this game. Because this game takes place in the future, a LOT more new guns have been out since then. The standard XM8 is a carbine. The "full length model" as you call it is just the DMR variant. The XM8 was originally intended to be a replacement carbine for the M4. Technically those aren't "middle eastern rebels" but mercenaries hired, so their gun choices are whatever they want. I wish the SCAR-L was in the game alongside the SCAR-H and I wish they modeled different barrel length instead of just the CQC variant. It's kinda odd none of the more "professional" PMC soldiers had any optics on their guns and shooting their SCARs in full auto. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 20:59, 24 August 2012 (CDT)
:Those ''were'' Middle Eastern rebels, the only PMCs there were the advisers, the guys who didn't wear anything covering their faces. This is stated so during Codec conversations with Otacon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:47, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

The game is also missing out on using more widely know handguns like SIGs and Glocks. The Glock 18 is just something overused in the media, so it doesn't count. I kinda wish you can "equip" a gun in the game so that in cut scenes, Snake is holding the gun you were holding the moment before the cut scene was triggered or when you walk around, the handgun holster is not automatically the 1911. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:10, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

:I think the main problem I always had with this is there's so many guns you never have any good reason to actually use for anything. The P90 is just plain ''better'' than all the other subguns, most of the vanilla pistols are useless, and so on. It's like they just threw darts at an airsoft catalog, and it results in some pretty dull bosses since none of them are designed with any particular weapon in mind. Plus the mount system doesn't have enough options; it's no good having mount something / mount nothing attachment points, there should be several accessories per location. Even if it's slightly farfetched things like sensor mountings on the side rails, it's better than nothing. Too many weapons with no accessories, too; I'd rather have fewer guns and more stuff to do with them, maybe have a SUIT scope for the FAL and some bracket accessories for the AK like a Kobra sight and so on. Also Snake maintaining light discipline in fully lit rooms is ridiculous.

:In general the design doesn't really work; dividing a warzone into arbitrary rooms shouldn't be necessary, and since they use the same alert system as always you get the weird scene of soldiers being attacked by a BMP-3 going to alert because AN OLD MAN WITH A BAD BACK IS HIDING IN THAT ALLEY. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:31, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:I think the reason why 9mm semiautomatic pistols were not included lies in the damage variables used in the game's engine. If you ever played Metal Gear Online 2, you might have noticed that it took 8 auto-aimed hits from the GSR to down an enemy player at full health. Using auto-aim with a full-auto Glock 18 took around 20 bullets to down someone as well. Imagine taking a Beretta M9 into that mode and consistently finding yourself 5 bullets short if you tried to use your handgun and auto-aim a lot. And yes, the alert system is lifted straight from the earlier games, so the PMCs' highest threat priority is Old Snake at all times. More accessories for more of the ingame-weapons would have been nice, but what do you mean by "sensor mountings"? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:05, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

I kinda wish they brought back some weapons from the previous games like the FAMAS, or the PSG-1. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 17:02, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

:An AKS-74U with Kobra RDS and PBS-1 suppressor options would have been nice, too. I also would have preferred the XM8 be the RIS-equipped Malaysian variant (if not replaced altogether by something more relevant and modern like the ACR), the AK-102 have its tri-rail handguard, optic choices (EOTech!!!!!) and mounts for more guns, an M203 for the M4 (the HK launcher just looked too damn bulky on it) and suppressor options for ''most'' conventional weapons. I was just using the Dragunov last night during Act 2 and wished to high heaven I'd had a suppressor for it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:07, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

I understand why the M203 was not in the game. If you think about it, it's a weapon that's getting old and this game takes place in the future. So a more future Grenade launcher would be better...that said, I wish the SCAR-H in the game was given a EGLM. Seriously, we needed more optics than the Aimpoint and ACOG. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:This game is chock full of vintage weapons, including the Makarov, 1911, Mosin-Nagant, G3, Dragunov, MAC-10, Type 17, FAL, and even a freaking muzzleloading matchlock rifle, all ''older'' than the M203. Same could be said in a round-about way about the Mark 14 (M14), M4 (M16 platform), AK-102 (just an updated AK), and the Remington 870. I don't see how giving the M4 a variation of an accessory it's ''famed'' for would be out of place. It all goes back to us wanting more variety in weapon mods. Besides, there's nothing functionally wrong with the M203 and all the ammo available for the XM320 and MGL were standard 40x46mm that would have worked fine in it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:39, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

When Snake held his M4 tilted, it doesn't make sense in the context of the scene, but if the game was made today, I'd bet you Kojima saw the future when we have recently added red dot attachments at a tilted angle for ARs. I wanted a regular M82A1, not the bullpup variant that no one ever sees anywhere. I really wished Merle didn't have double Desert Eagles. One as a sidearm, sure as a homage because it was her gun in MGS1 but 2? The G36 series of guns would have been nice. I wish the SCAR-Ls were in the hands of the mercs along side the SCAR-H because it's kinda weird that they ALL have SCAR-Hs but weirder is that none of them have optics or other attachments. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:11, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

== Name of the equipment that allows Old Snake to reload one-handed? ==

If you choose to make Old Snake commit a war crime by taking an NPC as a human shield while wielding a handgun, you'll notice that unlike the previous game, Old Snake will actually reload his handgun when you press the reload button, rather than just stand around like an idiot when his gun runs empty (as was the case in MGS3) while holding a human shield. Is there a name for the holster setup he uses ingame that lets him reload one-handed? Would it be possible to get something similar that would allow you to reload a handgun that doesn't use detachable box magazines, like the Thor .45-70 in this game or a revolver? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:19, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

: I don't think he has any special equipment to reload with a human shield. I think he just smacks the gun around on his leg to make it look like he is actually doing something, but his gun is just reloaded by the magic elves in shooters, that also pick up spent shell casings and discarded mags as well as re-plaster walls that were damaged by bullet holes. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:31, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

: Also, it's not a war crime; the fourth Geneva convention only says you can't take civilians or soldiers who are taking no active part in the conflict as hostages. I don't think it applies to threatening one soldier to make others back off. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:19, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

It would be cool to see them do some animation where we see Snake doing one handed reloads while holding a hostage. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:22, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

I would think that directly using one as a human shield would be frowned on by those at the Hague, however. But that's not the worst of it in this game. For one, you can make Old Snake execute soldiers you've made to surrender (i.e., you hold them up, then throw them to the ground and hold them up again to make them put their hands behind their heads). You can also commit sexual assault at gunpoint by holding up a FROG trooper and patting her down, along with the crotch-grab move. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:14, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

:You can think that if you want, but it doesn't make it so. Police pat female suspects down just like they do males. It's not sexual assault. You have a beef against Solid Snake or something? First you try to make him out as a war criminal, next a rapist. Are you going to imply he beats Sunny next? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 12:52, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Mazryonh, you're thinking with a civilian mindset. Depending on situation, military around the world do train their people how to effectively hold someone, either as a "hostage", to suppress nonlethal or to kill silently. It's part of military doctrine. The whole patting down is also part of procedure. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:24, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

:Oh well, police officers at least have a legal right to pat people down, and at a police station a female detainee can usually ask to be patted down by a female officer. I very much doubt that the crotch squeeze (which is intentional genital contact) counts as "standard procedure" either. It was a joke in MGS2 and MGS3; here it's something Old Snake (who to everyone but a few people in MGS' world is an "illegal combatant") intentionally does to incapacitate the enemy or "cop a feel" at gunpoint (the FROG troopers even sometimes quip that "You know what I like!" if you do it to them sometimes, shortly before they try to kick you down). --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:29, 14 January 2013 (EST)

Personally I don't see the point of asking to be pat down by a female officer, you're going to be patted down the same way by either gender so it doesn't make much of a difference, if they think you're hiding something up "there" they're still going to pat down that area. And the reason for the crotch squeeze is to 1) Knock the male PMC's out and 2) Make the FROG soldiers kick Snake in the face. [[User:Kornflakes89|Kornflakes89]] ([[User talk:Kornflakes89|talk]]) 23:08, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

== Most Detailed Weapons in Gaming History? ==

Now I know MGS isn't perfect as far as weapons go (wonky weapon choice, needless cocking), but doesn't it have the most detailed models? I've personally never played a game where so many weapons were portrayed so realistically (visually at least). All guns cycle and eject spent casings. Bolts lock back when they're supposed to (M4 Custom, MK 17 bolt lock's back along with charging handle). And even when snake reloads early (he needlessly cocks the weapon) the weapon does eject the appropriate cartridge, which means they actually modeled a spent casing along with a cartridge. Maybe i'm the only one constantly in awe of this games weapons, but maybe not. Who else agrees. - cheech98

:The devs definitely went (almost) all out. But then again, that's what I'd expect from an MGS game. The only thing that kinda spoils it is the fact that fresh mags aren't modeled with any cartridges in them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:27, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

It's also the first game that I've ever seen where people use a large amount of trigger discipline, some games are starting to implement it but I have never seen it as much as in this [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 20:37, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

:It's probably the first ''console'' game to model firearms with this level of detail. But ''PC'' games did this earlier. Just go look at the level of detail present in the PC versions of [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter]] and [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2|its sequel.]] Both of them have the +1 round in the chamber from a tactical reload, there are two reload animations for virtually every firearm, and weapons can be extensively customized (except for the lack of an underslung shotgun). About the only real complaints I have about the guns in those games are an unrealistic damage system and the fact that selector switches don't actually move when you change your firing mode. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 02:50, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

== Weapons in stock photos used in cutscenes ==
Mostly M16A2s, an M16A2 with an M203, and an M249E1 from the first Gulf War (from the looks of their 90s-vintage gear), and M4s and a not-clearly-shown M240 variant used by troops in Iraq. Should these be included? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:15, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:Yeah, stock footage is still in the game, after all. I'll have to get those when I get around to re-recording all this in HD. Kinda tricky because I'm going to need to make myself a plan of exactly what to do to get the same shots again in gameplay. Be interesting to see what the rumoured upcoming patch is going to do and if it changes anything (it's going to add trophy support, we know that part). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:48, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
::That patch is actually already out, released two or three days ago. Didn't change anything aside from adding trophy support, from what I can see (and I just finished a playthrough about half an hour to an hour ago). All of the above weapons appeared in you-know-who's monologue at the end of the game. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:50, 1 September 2012 (CDT)
:::I assume they haven't put the MGO servers back up? They were turned off earlier this year IIRC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:43, 2 September 2012 (CDT)
::::No. The MGO option in MGS4's main menu has been replaced with an option to install all five acts of the game to the HDD at the same time. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:28, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

== Hey... ==

If Johnny doesn't have nanomachines, wouldn't that mean he didn't have a system ID, meaning he'd have never been able to fire his issue weapon? Wouldn't someone have, you know, ''noticed'' that? For that matter, how come Snake thought threatening him with his issue weapon was a good idea when as far as he knew he'd never have been able to fire it without taking it to Drebin? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 00:06, 14 January 2013 (EST)

:I talked about this in an earlier revision of the XM8 section of this entry. But apparently I was wrong, and that was before I got the game for myself anyway. In any case, it's not too far of a stretch to posit that he's been paying Drebin some visits. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:22, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::Well yeah, but it's his issue weapon. Wouldn't the instructors have noticed he was the only one on the firing range physically incapable of firing his weapon at a target and, you know, done something about it? And you get in trouble if he has a non-ID weapon too since he should have used it at the end of Act 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:17, 14 January 2013 (EST)

:::He couldn't have used it if he wanted to in Act 3 cause he was puking his guts out on that boat. Of course now that you mention it, I do wonder how neither Merle or anyone on her team notices how they cannot link with Johnny at all [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 08:25, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::::Meryl oft mentions how johnny can be so out of synch with the rest of the team, most notably in the first few scenes where they are introduced IIRC. Also, from what I recall from the MGS database, all his gear is customized with tech from Japan to bypass the ID coding, minus the stuff from Drebin. [[User:The Kaptain|The Kaptain]] ([[User talk:The Kaptain|talk]]) 15:06, 14 January 2013 (EST)

::::But there was no way Snake could have known Johnny's XM8 is potentially an Non ID gun because his lack of nanomachines, yet he disarmed him and was ready to use it despite being informed previous that all guns are ID locked and he can't possibly used them without Drebin unlocking them for him to use. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 00:42, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

This game, while moderately fun (MGS3 is easily 10X more fun than MGS4 is, but that's just my personal opinion), has so many glaring issues that I'm so tempted to say, "Just throw it into the big bag labeled 'Plot Holes' and move on." LOL. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:32, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

:MGS3 was a game based around its gimmicks in my experiences--the guards are much easier to fool than in MGS4 and you have Naked Snake's omnipresent hunger to deal with (but we should save this for the actual MGS3 page). Still, Kojima could have prevented this problem if Old Snake, after slamming Johnny with CQC, unloaded his weapon, pocketed the magazine, threw it away (since I doubt Old Snake knew how to field strip, Boss-style, an unfamiliar weapon like the XM8 on very short notice), then drew his own looted AK-102 (which you MUST take) to point at the Rat Patrol. As for Johnny's part, he could just have visited a gun launderer early on in his training (though it still doesn't take care of the question of why Old Snake commandeered his XM8 since for all Old Snake knew the ID lock would have rendered it nonfunctional).--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:49, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

:::The soldiers in MGS3 are easier to handle because they aren't interconnected to each other via SOP like the mercs in MGS4 are and, barring the Ocelot unit and other Spetsnaz, were likely far less extensively trained since the Soviet war machine of the time was based primarily on overwhelming an enemy with sheer numbers. Even then, Big Boss is (at least from my POV) shown to be the obviously better soldier when compared to Snake. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:53, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

::How could he visit a gun launderer before taking his issue weapon out on a firing range, though? They don't tend to let you take your rifle home and screw around with it in the military, last I checked. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:48, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

:Easy, he could have noticed that "Oh, crap, I'll be using an XM8 as part of the Rat Patrol and don't have any nanos; I need to get a counterfeit chip/firing mechanism blocker/whatever ASAP" and then visited a gun launderer to ask for that specific component ("Sure, you can have one for an XM8, so as long as you bring me the original by tomorrow" or the like). All Johnny has to do then is to substitute the counterfeit component (most plausibly something that locks the safety switch in its "on" position without the appropriate radio signal from a user's nanomachines, and has its own microchip component that can receive an overriding signal from the Patriots) for the original via field-stripping his weapon before his first firing trip range--they have field stripping practice sessions in the military, don't they?--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 20:35, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

::If it were that easy, I doubt the Drebins would have made a business out of it. Every soldier in the field and mom & pop gun shop would be able to easily circumvent SOP, thereby making the whole thing--and the entire premise of the game--a proverbial fifth wheel. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:53, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

:No, according to Drebin 893's explanation at the end of the game, the gun launderers are '''(SPOILERS)''' Patriot-sponsored workarounds to the system, so it's most likely that only they can create chips (or whatever the component is actually called) that countermand/counterfeit the Patriot's System ID locks. Besides, the Rat Patrol's true purpose is in fact supporting Patriot operations, so I'm sure they would have given Johnny what he needed when he was assigned to the team, one way or another.'''(END SPOILERS)'''--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 00:53, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

::Yeah, but like I noted on the page, all of these weapons are designed to work without the System, so the worst you'd have to do is replace a component and maybe mill some metal out of the receiver so it fits. A lockout might work with something like the Javelin if the software is cloud-based and the missile programmed by the System since you'd have to write new software from scratch to use it, but a lockout on a gun is like a safe. It's there to stop you immediately accessing the contents, but if you can take it away and do whatever you like to it, it's not going to last for very long. So the Drebins would have been undercut by black-market gunsmiths who were just removing the ID locks or manufacturing weapons that never had them installed in the first place.

::That's not even getting into how daft it is having an army that requires the equivalent of an always-on internet connection to stop their soldiers turning into gibbering wrecks, their guns locking up and all their vehicles shutting down (helicopters doing so in mid-air, even). What do you do in an area with bad communications or jamming? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:45, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

== Random question regarding the SCAR-H description ==
Why are the XM320 and Masterkey referred to as "NATO underbarrel accessory weapons"? Neither weapon adheres to any NATO standard AFAIK, but the wording makes it sound as if both are some kind of standardized weapon systems used by all member states when no such standardization has ever existed. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 05:26, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

:My take is that they were designed for use by NATO-standard nations, just like the GP-25 is a Warsaw pact underbarrel weapon.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] ([[User talk:Mazryonh|talk]]) 01:51, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

::Are there even any NATO standards for shotgun and low-velocity grenade munitions? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 04:55, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

:::standard-measurement (2 3/4 in, 3 in, etc.) 12 Gauge shells for shotguns (I know, it seems obvious, but that's what it is) and 40x46mm for grenade launchers. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:06, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

:::What I mean is they go on NATO-ammunition-using weapons. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 07:39, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Elephant

2013-03-03T00:10:46Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Unidentified Assault Weapon */

A Good Day to Die Hard

2013-02-15T03:19:07Z

Jeddostotle7: /* DSA SA58 OSW */

{{NowShowing}}

{{Infobox Movie
|name = A Good Day to Die Hard
|picture =DH5.jpg
|caption =
|country = [[Image:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|director = John Moore
|date= 2013
|studio=20th Century Fox
|distributor=20th Century Fox
|character1=John McClane
|actor1=[[Bruce Willis]]
|character2=Jack McClane
|actor2=[[Jai Courtney]]
|character3=Collins
|actor3=[[Cole Hauser]]
|character4=
|actor4=
|character5=
|actor5=
|character6=
|actor6=
|character7=
|actor7=
|character8=
|actor8=
|character9=
|actor9=
|character10=
|actor10=
}}
''A Good Day to Die Hard'' is the fifth installment in the long-running ''[[:Category:Die Hard|Die Hard]]'' film franchise. [[Bruce Willis]] returns as John McClane, who travels to Moscow to look for his estranged son Jack ([[Jai Courtney]]), only to get caught up in another terrorist plot that the two must fight their way out of. Directed by John Moore (''[[Behind Enemy Lines]]'' and ''[[Max Payne]]''), the film was mostly shot in Budapest, Hungary and was released in the US on February 14th, 2013.

'''The following weapons were used in the film ''A Good Day to Die Hard'':'''

__TOC__ 

=Pistols=
==Makarov PM==
Jack McClane ([[Jai Courtney]]) grabs a [[Makarov PM]] from a table in a kitchen and opens fire ina nightclub.
[[File:MakarovIJ70.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Makarov PM 9x18mm Makarov.]]
[[File:DH5 001.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A [[Makarov PM]] taken off a counter.]]
[[File:DH5-Makarov-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jack fires a Makarov in a club.]]

==SIG-Sauer P228==
Jack McClane ([[Jai Courtney]]) carries a two-tone [[SIG-Sauer P228|SIG-Sauer P228R]].
[[Image:SIG-Sauer P228R.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|SIG-Sauer P228R - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Diehard5-pstill-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|On the right, John McClane Jr. ([[Jai Courtney]]) carries the SIG in his vest holster.]]
[[File:DH5-arsenal-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SIG-Sauer P228R lies among an assortment of weapons in a car truck.]]

==SIG-Sauer P229==
A suppressor is seen being attached to a [[SIG-Sauer P229]].
[[Image:SIGP229.jpg|thumb|none|300px|SIG-Sauer P229 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:DH5-P229-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A suppressor is attached to a P229.]]

==Beretta Px4 Storm Sub-Compact==
Irina Komorov holds a [[Beretta Px4 Storm|Beretta PX4 Storm Sub-Compact]] on Yuri.
[[Image:Px4StormCompact.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta Px4 Storm Sub-Compact - 9x19mm]]

=Shotguns=
==Mossberg 500 Tactical==
John McClane ([[Bruce Willis]]) is seen firing a [[Mossberg 500]] tactical shotgun with a Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight and saddle shell holder.

[[File:Mossberg 500 tactical.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mossberg 500 tactical]]
[[File:AGDTDH-pstill-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|John McClane holds a Mossberg 500 Tactical in a publicity still.]]
[[File:DH5 002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A view of the shotgun's ejection port.]]
[[File:Diehard5-Benelli-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McClane holds the shotgun.]]
[[File:DH5 007.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John McClane raises the shotgun.]]

==12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun==
John also uses a sawed off [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]].

[[Image:IGA-Coach-Gun.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Stoeger/IGA Coach imported side by side shotgun - 12 Gauge]]
[[File:DH5 009.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John also uses a sawed off double barreled shotgun.]]
[[File:DH5-shotgun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"What is this, a pirate gun?"]]

==Kel-Tch KSG==
What may be a [[Kel-Tech KSG]] is seen on the roof during the finale.
[[Image:Kel-Tec_KSG_Shotgun_Oleg_Volk_1.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Kel-Tec KSG with Magpul RVG foregrip - 12 Gauge]]

=Submachine Guns=
==Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW==
Irina (Yuliya Snigir) fires what appears to be a customized [[Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW]].

[[Image:MP5K-PDW.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP5K-PDW with its extended barrel with 3 lugs & folding stock - 9x19mm ]]
[[File:DH5-smg-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Irina fires a MP5K-PDW.]]

=Rifles=
==FN SCAR-H CQC==
John McClane is seen with an [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-H|FN SCAR-H CQC]] battle rifle, equipped with EOTech holosight, tactical light, and AN/PEQ-15 ATPIAL.

[[Image:2fff2537c0.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Third Generation FN SCAR-H CQC - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Diehard5-pstill-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|John McClane holds an FN SCAR-H in a publicity still.]]
[[File:Diehard5-SCAR-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Jack McClane ([[Jai Courtney]]) with the FN SCAR while taking cover behind a pillar during an explosion.]]

==DSA SA58 OSW==
Jack is seen with a [[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSA SA58 OSW]] with an EOTech sight, tactical light and 20-round magazines.

[[Image:DSA SA58 Reddot.jpg‎|thumb|400px|none|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:DH5-arsenal-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A DSA SA58 OSW lies among an assortment of weapons in a car truck.]]

==AK-104==
McClane fires an [[AK-104]] modified with a tactical light and foregrip. Jack and numerous enemy henchmen are also seen wielding AK-104s.

[[Image:AK104.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-104 carbine - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:DH5-AK104-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McClane runs while holding an AK-104.]]
[[File:DH5-ARSF-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|McClane and son fire AK-104s.]]
[[File:DH-AK104-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McClane fires the AK-104.]]

==Steyr AUG A3==
Alik ([[Radivoje Bukvic]]) and his henchmen wield [[Steyr AUG#Steyr AUG A3|Steyr AUG A3s]] with a 16-inch barrels and various accessories including EOTech sights and [[M203]] grenade launchers.

[[File:SteyrAUGA3.jpg|thumb|none|400px| Steyr AUG A3 with optics removed and 16-inch barrel - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:DH5-AUG-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The henchman on the right aims a Steyr AUG A3.]]
[[File:DH5-AUG-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Alik holds a Steyr AUG A3 with an EOTech sight and a grenade launcher.]]

=Machine Guns=

==FN M249 SAW Paratrooper==
McClane is shown firing a [[M249 SAW|M249 SAW Paratrooper]] with an EOTech sight.

[[Image:M249 Para ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M249 SAW Paratrooper - this one features components of the Product Improvement Package (PIP), including the new telescoping stock, heat shield, and RIS handguard, and is also fitted with an ACOG scope and a 100-round woodland camo cloth ammo bag - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:DH5-M249-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McClane fires the M249 Paratrooper. Note the improved handguard with picatinny rails that is similar to current-U.S military issued M249s.]]
[[File:DH5-M249-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McClane fires the M249 Paratrooper.]]

=Other=
==RPG-7==
A henchman fires a [[RPG-7]] with a PGO-7V sight during a car chase.

[[Image:Rpg-7.jpg|thumb|none|400px|RPG-7 with PG-7VM rocket and PGO-7 scope - 40mm]]
[[File:DH5-RPG-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A henchman fires a RPG-7.]]

==Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2==
A Mi-24P "Hind-F" attack helicopter can be seen opening fire with its [[Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30]] autocannons. At one point during production, the autocannon was used with live ammunition on a military firing range to capture shots of accurate weapon damage.

[[Image:GSh-30-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2 30mm automatic cannon with unfired rounds - 30x165mm]]
[[File:DH5-Gsh30-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The Mi-24P opens fire. The helicopter was loaned from the Hungarian Air Force for the production.]]

{{Die Hard Series}}
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Die Hard]]

A Good Day to Die Hard

2013-02-15T03:18:16Z

Jeddostotle7: /* DSA SA58 OSW */

{{NowShowing}}

{{Infobox Movie
|name = A Good Day to Die Hard
|picture =DH5.jpg
|caption =
|country = [[Image:USA.jpg|25px]] USA
|director = John Moore
|date= 2013
|studio=20th Century Fox
|distributor=20th Century Fox
|character1=John McClane
|actor1=[[Bruce Willis]]
|character2=Jack McClane
|actor2=[[Jai Courtney]]
|character3=Collins
|actor3=[[Cole Hauser]]
|character4=
|actor4=
|character5=
|actor5=
|character6=
|actor6=
|character7=
|actor7=
|character8=
|actor8=
|character9=
|actor9=
|character10=
|actor10=
}}
''A Good Day to Die Hard'' is the fifth installment in the long-running ''[[:Category:Die Hard|Die Hard]]'' film franchise. [[Bruce Willis]] returns as John McClane, who travels to Moscow to look for his estranged son Jack ([[Jai Courtney]]), only to get caught up in another terrorist plot that the two must fight their way out of. Directed by John Moore (''[[Behind Enemy Lines]]'' and ''[[Max Payne]]''), the film was mostly shot in Budapest, Hungary and was released in the US on February 14th, 2013.

'''The following weapons were used in the film ''A Good Day to Die Hard'':'''

__TOC__ 

=Pistols=
==Makarov PM==
Jack McClane ([[Jai Courtney]]) grabs a [[Makarov PM]] from a table in a kitchen and opens fire ina nightclub.
[[File:MakarovIJ70.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Makarov PM 9x18mm Makarov.]]
[[File:DH5 001.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A [[Makarov PM]] taken off a counter.]]
[[File:DH5-Makarov-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jack fires a Makarov in a club.]]

==SIG-Sauer P228==
Jack McClane ([[Jai Courtney]]) carries a two-tone [[SIG-Sauer P228|SIG-Sauer P228R]].
[[Image:SIG-Sauer P228R.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|SIG-Sauer P228R - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Diehard5-pstill-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|On the right, John McClane Jr. ([[Jai Courtney]]) carries the SIG in his vest holster.]]
[[File:DH5-arsenal-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A SIG-Sauer P228R lies among an assortment of weapons in a car truck.]]

==SIG-Sauer P229==
A suppressor is seen being attached to a [[SIG-Sauer P229]].
[[Image:SIGP229.jpg|thumb|none|300px|SIG-Sauer P229 - 9x19mm]]
[[File:DH5-P229-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A suppressor is attached to a P229.]]

==Beretta Px4 Storm Sub-Compact==
Irina Komorov holds a [[Beretta Px4 Storm|Beretta PX4 Storm Sub-Compact]] on Yuri.
[[Image:Px4StormCompact.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Beretta Px4 Storm Sub-Compact - 9x19mm]]

=Shotguns=
==Mossberg 500 Tactical==
John McClane ([[Bruce Willis]]) is seen firing a [[Mossberg 500]] tactical shotgun with a Surefire dedicated forend weaponlight and saddle shell holder.

[[File:Mossberg 500 tactical.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mossberg 500 tactical]]
[[File:AGDTDH-pstill-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|John McClane holds a Mossberg 500 Tactical in a publicity still.]]
[[File:DH5 002.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A view of the shotgun's ejection port.]]
[[File:Diehard5-Benelli-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McClane holds the shotgun.]]
[[File:DH5 007.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John McClane raises the shotgun.]]

==12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun==
John also uses a sawed off [[12 Gauge Double Barreled Shotgun]].

[[Image:IGA-Coach-Gun.jpg‎|thumb|none|450px|Stoeger/IGA Coach imported side by side shotgun - 12 Gauge]]
[[File:DH5 009.jpg|thumb|none|600px|John also uses a sawed off double barreled shotgun.]]
[[File:DH5-shotgun-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"What is this, a pirate gun?"]]

==Kel-Tch KSG==
What may be a [[Kel-Tech KSG]] is seen on the roof during the finale.
[[Image:Kel-Tec_KSG_Shotgun_Oleg_Volk_1.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Kel-Tec KSG with Magpul RVG foregrip - 12 Gauge]]

=Submachine Guns=
==Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW==
Irina (Yuliya Snigir) fires what appears to be a customized [[Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW]].

[[Image:MP5K-PDW.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP5K-PDW with its extended barrel with 3 lugs & folding stock - 9x19mm ]]
[[File:DH5-smg-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Irina fires a MP5K-PDW.]]

=Rifles=
==FN SCAR-H CQC==
John McClane is seen with an [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR-H|FN SCAR-H CQC]] battle rifle, equipped with EOTech holosight, tactical light, and AN/PEQ-15 ATPIAL.

[[Image:2fff2537c0.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Third Generation FN SCAR-H CQC - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Diehard5-pstill-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|John McClane holds an FN SCAR-H in a publicity still.]]
[[File:Diehard5-SCAR-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Jack McClane ([[Jai Courtney]]) with the FN SCAR while taking cover behind a pillar during an explosion.]]

==DSA SA58 OSW==
Jack is seen with a [[FN FAL#DSA SA58 OSW|DSA SA58 OSW]] with an EOTech sight, tactical light and 20-round magazines.

[[Image:DSA SA58 Reddot.jpg‎|thumb|400px|none|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:Diehard5-pstill-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Jack McClane holds a DSA SA58 OSW in a publicity still.]]
[[File:DH5-arsenal-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A DSA SA58 OSW lies among an assortment of weapons in a car truck.]]

==AK-104==
McClane fires an [[AK-104]] modified with a tactical light and foregrip. Jack and numerous enemy henchmen are also seen wielding AK-104s.

[[Image:AK104.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-104 carbine - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:DH5-AK104-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McClane runs while holding an AK-104.]]
[[File:DH5-ARSF-1.jpg|thumb|none|602px|McClane and son fire AK-104s.]]
[[File:DH-AK104-2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McClane fires the AK-104.]]

==Steyr AUG A3==
Alik ([[Radivoje Bukvic]]) and his henchmen wield [[Steyr AUG#Steyr AUG A3|Steyr AUG A3s]] with a 16-inch barrels and various accessories including EOTech sights and [[M203]] grenade launchers.

[[File:SteyrAUGA3.jpg|thumb|none|400px| Steyr AUG A3 with optics removed and 16-inch barrel - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:DH5-AUG-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The henchman on the right aims a Steyr AUG A3.]]
[[File:DH5-AUG-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Alik holds a Steyr AUG A3 with an EOTech sight and a grenade launcher.]]

=Machine Guns=

==FN M249 SAW Paratrooper==
McClane is shown firing a [[M249 SAW|M249 SAW Paratrooper]] with an EOTech sight.

[[Image:M249 Para ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M249 SAW Paratrooper - this one features components of the Product Improvement Package (PIP), including the new telescoping stock, heat shield, and RIS handguard, and is also fitted with an ACOG scope and a 100-round woodland camo cloth ammo bag - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:DH5-M249-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|McClane fires the M249 Paratrooper. Note the improved handguard with picatinny rails that is similar to current-U.S military issued M249s.]]
[[File:DH5-M249-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McClane fires the M249 Paratrooper.]]

=Other=
==RPG-7==
A henchman fires a [[RPG-7]] with a PGO-7V sight during a car chase.

[[Image:Rpg-7.jpg|thumb|none|400px|RPG-7 with PG-7VM rocket and PGO-7 scope - 40mm]]
[[File:DH5-RPG-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A henchman fires a RPG-7.]]

==Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2==
A Mi-24P "Hind-F" attack helicopter can be seen opening fire with its [[Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30]] autocannons. At one point during production, the autocannon was used with live ammunition on a military firing range to capture shots of accurate weapon damage.

[[Image:GSh-30-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2 30mm automatic cannon with unfired rounds - 30x165mm]]
[[File:DH5-Gsh30-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The Mi-24P opens fire. The helicopter was loaned from the Hungarian Air Force for the production.]]

{{Die Hard Series}}
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Action Movie]]
[[Category:Die Hard]]

A Good Day to Die Hard

2013-02-15T03:16:22Z

Jeddostotle7: /* FN SCAR-H CQC */

RPK

2013-01-26T21:44:14Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Video Games */

''NOTE: Some films use the [[Valmet M78]] to impersonate the RPK. please see the Valmet M78 page for differences between these two weapons.''

__TOC__

= RPK =
[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|right|500px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Rpk 01 drum.jpg|thumb|right|500px|RPK light machine gun with 75-round drum magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
==Specifications==
(1961 – 1978)

* '''Type:''' Light Machine Gun

* '''Caliber:''' 7.62×39mm M43

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|kg|4.8}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|mm|1040}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|mm|590}}

* '''Feed System:''' 40-round curved magazine or 75-round drum magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Full-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|RPK}}

=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Resident Evil: Damnation]]''|| ||Russian Soldiers || ||2012
|-
| ''[[Universal Soldier: Regeneration]]'' || || Terrorists || || 2009
|-
| ''[[Mark of Cain, The|The Mark of Cain]]'' || || Iraqi insurgent || || 2007
|-
| ''[[Blood Diamond]]'' || || RUF fighter || || 2006
|-
| ''[[Preacher, The|The Preacher]]'' || [[Christian Kmiotek]] || Jutka|| || 2004
|-
| ''[[Tears of the Sun]]'' || || Militia fighter || || 2003
|-
| ''[[Proof of Life]]'' |||| ELT rebel || || 2000
|-
| ''[[Three Kings]]'' || || Iraqi soldier || || 1999
|-
| ''[[Navy SEALs]]'' || [[Rick Rossovich]] || Leary || || 1990
|-
| ''[[Red Scorpion]]'' || [[Dolph Lundgren]] || Lt. Nikolai Rachenko || || 1989
|-
| ''[[Parade of the Planets (Parad planet)]]'' || || Soviet Army soldiers || || 1984
|-
|}

=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[E-Ring]] || || Chinese Soldier || "Pilot", With drum magazine || 2005-2006
|-
|''[[Over There]] || || Iraqi insurgent || "Prisoner" || 2005
|-
|'' [[Unit, The|The Unit]] || || Terrorist || "Always Kiss Them Goodbye" || 2006 - 2009
|-
|'' [[Falling Skies - Season 1]] || [[Mpho Koaho]] || Anthony || "The Armory" || 2011 - present
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Spec Ops: Ranger Elite]] || || || || 2001
|-
| [[America's Army]] || || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2002
|-
| [[Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising]] || || || || 2004
|-
| [[Close Combat: First to Fight]] || RPK || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || || || 2005
|-
| [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2]] || AK-47 LMG || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2007
|-
| [[Insurgency]] || || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2007
|-
| [[Soldier of Fortune: Payback]] ||PKR-47 || || || 2007
|-
| [[Mercenaries 2: World in Flames]] ||Automatic Rifle || w/ drum magazine || || 2008
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2009
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker]]||RPK||w/ drum magazine||||2010
|-
| [[Call of Duty: Black Ops]] || RPK || Optional red dot sight/scope/IR scope and dual mags || w/ ribbed forend, relocated rear sight, and drum magazine || 2010
|-
| [[Medal of Honor (2010)|Medal of Honor]] || RPK ||w/ various attachments ||digital pre-order bonus || 2010
|-
| [[Battlefield 3]] || RPK-74M || Vertical foregrip and various attachments || has performances of 5.45x39mm RPK-74, probably accidentally modeled on RPKM || 2011
|-
| [[Battlefield Play4Free]] || As the "RPK-74M" || With Harris bipod replacing integral bipod || || 2011
|-
| [[Jagged Alliance: Back in Action]]||RPK-74||||||2012
|-
| [[Ghost Recon: Future Soldier]] || RPK ||RPKM with various atachments || uPlay bonus weapon|| 2012
|}

= RPK-74 =
[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|right|501px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|right|500px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
==Specifications==
(1974 – present)

* '''Type:''' Light Machine Gun

* '''Caliber:''' 5.45×39mm M74

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|kg|4.7}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|mm|1060}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|mm|590}}

* '''Feed System:''' 30-round box magazine or 45-round curved magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Full-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|RPK-74}}
=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
|'' [[Checkpoint (Blokpost)]] || || Russian soldier || || 1998
|-
|''[[GoldenEye]] || || Soviet soldier ||Mockup only || 1995
|-
| ''[[Job, The|The Job]]'' || [[Daryl Hannah]] || CJ March || Modified as a sniper rifle || 2003
|-
| ''[[9th Company]]'' || || Soviet soldiers || || 2005
|-
| ''[[9th Company]]'' || || Afghan soldiers || || 2005
|-
| ''[[Hooked (Na Igre)]] || || Boris Sergeevich's guard ||RPK-74M || 2009
|-
|'' [[Hooked (Na Igre)]] || || Muslim terrorists ||RPK-74M || 2009
|-
| ''[[Hooked 2. Next Level (Na Igre 2. Novyy Uroven)]] || ||Contrabandists and Boris Sergeevich's guard || || 2010
|-
|''[[Hooked 2. Next Level (Na Igre 2. Novyy Uroven)]] || [[Sergey Chirkov]] ||Vampire || || 2010
|-
|}

=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[I Have The Honor! (Chest Imeyu!)]]|| || Russian paratroopers and Chechen terrorists || || 2004
|-
|''[[Storm Gate, The|The Storm Gate]]|| || Chechen terrorists || || 2006
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || Available hand-held and in fixed positions, and vehicle-mounted || Inaccurately shown with drum magazine || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || Mounted on pickup truck dashboard || Inaccurately shown with drum magazine || 2005
|-
| [[Jagged Alliance 2]] || || || || 1999
|-
| [[Ghost Recon]] || RPK74 || || w/ 75-round drum magazine || 2001
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || || ||RPK-74M || 2008
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || || || Inaccurately shown with drum magazine || 2009
|-
| [[MAG]] || RTK-74 || || w/ muzzle brake removed and nonexistent drum magazine || 2010
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3]]|| RTK-74|||| ||2010
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || With muzzle brake removed and nonexistent drum magazine || 2004
|-
|[[SOCOM 4: US Navy SEALs]]||RTK-74||||||2011
|-
| [[War Inc. Battlezone]] || || w/ various attachments ||RPK-74M || 2011
|-
| [[Jagged Alliance: Back in Action]] || RPK-74 || || w/ 45-round box magazine || 2012
|-
|}

===Anime ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Angel Beats!]] || || || || 2010
|-
|}

= Zastava M72B1 =
[[Image:ZastavaM72.jpg|500px|thumb|right|Zastava M72B1 Light Machine Gun with 40-round box magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
==Specifications==
(1973 - Present)

* '''Type:''' Light Machine Gun

* '''Caliber:''' 7.62×39mm M43

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|kg|5.5}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|mm|1025}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|mm|542}}

* '''Feed System:''' 30, 40 round magazines or 75 round drum

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto/Full-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Zastava M72B1}}
=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Fall of Italy, The (Pad Italije)|The Fall of Italy (Pad Italije)]]'' || || SS soldiers, Ustasha || || 1981
|-
|''[[Black Hawk Down]] |||| Somali militiaman || || 2001
|-
|''[[No Man's Land]] || || Serbian soldiers || || 2001
|-
|''[[No Man's Land]] || || Bosnian soldiers || || 2001
|-
|}
 

=See Also=
* [[Vyatskie Polyany Machine Building Plant "Molot"]] - A list of all firearms manufactured by Vyatskie Polyany Machine Building Plant "Molot".
{{AK}}
[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Machine Gun]]

RPK

2013-01-26T21:40:46Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Video Games */

''NOTE: Some films use the [[Valmet M78]] to impersonate the RPK. please see the Valmet M78 page for differences between these two weapons.''

__TOC__

= RPK =
[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|right|500px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Rpk 01 drum.jpg|thumb|right|500px|RPK light machine gun with 75-round drum magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
==Specifications==
(1961 – 1978)

* '''Type:''' Light Machine Gun

* '''Caliber:''' 7.62×39mm M43

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|kg|4.8}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|mm|1040}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|mm|590}}

* '''Feed System:''' 40-round curved magazine or 75-round drum magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Full-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|RPK}}

=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Resident Evil: Damnation]]''|| ||Russian Soldiers || ||2012
|-
| ''[[Universal Soldier: Regeneration]]'' || || Terrorists || || 2009
|-
| ''[[Mark of Cain, The|The Mark of Cain]]'' || || Iraqi insurgent || || 2007
|-
| ''[[Blood Diamond]]'' || || RUF fighter || || 2006
|-
| ''[[Preacher, The|The Preacher]]'' || [[Christian Kmiotek]] || Jutka|| || 2004
|-
| ''[[Tears of the Sun]]'' || || Militia fighter || || 2003
|-
| ''[[Proof of Life]]'' |||| ELT rebel || || 2000
|-
| ''[[Three Kings]]'' || || Iraqi soldier || || 1999
|-
| ''[[Navy SEALs]]'' || [[Rick Rossovich]] || Leary || || 1990
|-
| ''[[Red Scorpion]]'' || [[Dolph Lundgren]] || Lt. Nikolai Rachenko || || 1989
|-
| ''[[Parade of the Planets (Parad planet)]]'' || || Soviet Army soldiers || || 1984
|-
|}

=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[E-Ring]] || || Chinese Soldier || "Pilot", With drum magazine || 2005-2006
|-
|''[[Over There]] || || Iraqi insurgent || "Prisoner" || 2005
|-
|'' [[Unit, The|The Unit]] || || Terrorist || "Always Kiss Them Goodbye" || 2006 - 2009
|-
|'' [[Falling Skies - Season 1]] || [[Mpho Koaho]] || Anthony || "The Armory" || 2011 - present
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Spec Ops: Ranger Elite]] || || || || 2001
|-
| [[America's Army]] || || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2002
|-
| [[Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising]] || || || || 2004
|-
| [[Close Combat: First to Fight]] || RPK || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || || || 2005
|-
| [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2]] || AK-47 LMG || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2007
|-
| [[Insurgency]] || || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2007
|-
| [[Soldier of Fortune: Payback]] ||PKR-47 || || || 2007
|-
| [[Mercenaries 2: World in Flames]] ||Automatic Rifle || w/ drum magazine || || 2008
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2009
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker]]||RPK||w/ drum magazine||||2010
|-
| [[Call of Duty: Black Ops]] || RPK || Optional red dot sight/scope/IR scope and dual mags || w/ ribbed forend, relocated rear sight, and drum magazine || 2010
|-
| [[Medal of Honor (2010)|Medal of Honor]] || RPK ||w/ various attachments ||digital pre-order bonus || 2010
|-
| [[Battlefield 3]] || RPK-74M || Vertical foregrip and various attachments || has performances of 5.45x39mm RPK-74, probably accidentally modeled on RPK || 2011
|-
| [[Battlefield Play4Free]] || As the "RPK-74M" || With Harris bipod replacing integral bipod || || 2011
|-
| [[Jagged Alliance: Back in Action]]||RPK-74||||||2012
|-
| [[Ghost Recon: Future Soldier]] || RPK ||RPKM with various atachments || uPlay bonus weapon|| 2012
|}

= RPK-74 =
[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|right|501px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|right|500px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
==Specifications==
(1974 – present)

* '''Type:''' Light Machine Gun

* '''Caliber:''' 5.45×39mm M74

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|kg|4.7}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|mm|1060}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|mm|590}}

* '''Feed System:''' 30-round box magazine or 45-round curved magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Full-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|RPK-74}}
=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
|'' [[Checkpoint (Blokpost)]] || || Russian soldier || || 1998
|-
|''[[GoldenEye]] || || Soviet soldier ||Mockup only || 1995
|-
| ''[[Job, The|The Job]]'' || [[Daryl Hannah]] || CJ March || Modified as a sniper rifle || 2003
|-
| ''[[9th Company]]'' || || Soviet soldiers || || 2005
|-
| ''[[9th Company]]'' || || Afghan soldiers || || 2005
|-
| ''[[Hooked (Na Igre)]] || || Boris Sergeevich's guard ||RPK-74M || 2009
|-
|'' [[Hooked (Na Igre)]] || || Muslim terrorists ||RPK-74M || 2009
|-
| ''[[Hooked 2. Next Level (Na Igre 2. Novyy Uroven)]] || ||Contrabandists and Boris Sergeevich's guard || || 2010
|-
|''[[Hooked 2. Next Level (Na Igre 2. Novyy Uroven)]] || [[Sergey Chirkov]] ||Vampire || || 2010
|-
|}

=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[I Have The Honor! (Chest Imeyu!)]]|| || Russian paratroopers and Chechen terrorists || || 2004
|-
|''[[Storm Gate, The|The Storm Gate]]|| || Chechen terrorists || || 2006
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || Available hand-held and in fixed positions, and vehicle-mounted || Inaccurately shown with drum magazine || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || Mounted on pickup truck dashboard || Inaccurately shown with drum magazine || 2005
|-
| [[Jagged Alliance 2]] || || || || 1999
|-
| [[Ghost Recon]] || RPK74 || || w/ 75-round drum magazine || 2001
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || || ||RPK-74M || 2008
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || || || Inaccurately shown with drum magazine || 2009
|-
| [[MAG]] || RTK-74 || || w/ muzzle brake removed and nonexistent drum magazine || 2010
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3]]|| RTK-74|||| ||2010
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || With muzzle brake removed and nonexistent drum magazine || 2004
|-
|[[SOCOM 4: US Navy SEALs]]||RTK-74||||||2011
|-
| [[War Inc. Battlezone]] || || w/ various attachments ||RPK-74M || 2011
|-
| [[Jagged Alliance: Back in Action]] || RPK-74 || || w/ 45-round box magazine || 2012
|-
|}

===Anime ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Angel Beats!]] || || || || 2010
|-
|}

= Zastava M72B1 =
[[Image:ZastavaM72.jpg|500px|thumb|right|Zastava M72B1 Light Machine Gun with 40-round box magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
==Specifications==
(1973 - Present)

* '''Type:''' Light Machine Gun

* '''Caliber:''' 7.62×39mm M43

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|kg|5.5}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|mm|1025}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|mm|542}}

* '''Feed System:''' 30, 40 round magazines or 75 round drum

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto/Full-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Zastava M72B1}}
=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Fall of Italy, The (Pad Italije)|The Fall of Italy (Pad Italije)]]'' || || SS soldiers, Ustasha || || 1981
|-
|''[[Black Hawk Down]] |||| Somali militiaman || || 2001
|-
|''[[No Man's Land]] || || Serbian soldiers || || 2001
|-
|''[[No Man's Land]] || || Bosnian soldiers || || 2001
|-
|}
 

=See Also=
* [[Vyatskie Polyany Machine Building Plant "Molot"]] - A list of all firearms manufactured by Vyatskie Polyany Machine Building Plant "Molot".
{{AK}}
[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Machine Gun]]

RPK

2013-01-26T21:34:47Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Video Games */

''NOTE: Some films use the [[Valmet M78]] to impersonate the RPK. please see the Valmet M78 page for differences between these two weapons.''

__TOC__

= RPK =
[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|right|500px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:Rpk 01 drum.jpg|thumb|right|500px|RPK light machine gun with 75-round drum magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
==Specifications==
(1961 – 1978)

* '''Type:''' Light Machine Gun

* '''Caliber:''' 7.62×39mm M43

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|kg|4.8}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|mm|1040}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|mm|590}}

* '''Feed System:''' 40-round curved magazine or 75-round drum magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Full-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|RPK}}

=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Resident Evil: Damnation]]''|| ||Russian Soldiers || ||2012
|-
| ''[[Universal Soldier: Regeneration]]'' || || Terrorists || || 2009
|-
| ''[[Mark of Cain, The|The Mark of Cain]]'' || || Iraqi insurgent || || 2007
|-
| ''[[Blood Diamond]]'' || || RUF fighter || || 2006
|-
| ''[[Preacher, The|The Preacher]]'' || [[Christian Kmiotek]] || Jutka|| || 2004
|-
| ''[[Tears of the Sun]]'' || || Militia fighter || || 2003
|-
| ''[[Proof of Life]]'' |||| ELT rebel || || 2000
|-
| ''[[Three Kings]]'' || || Iraqi soldier || || 1999
|-
| ''[[Navy SEALs]]'' || [[Rick Rossovich]] || Leary || || 1990
|-
| ''[[Red Scorpion]]'' || [[Dolph Lundgren]] || Lt. Nikolai Rachenko || || 1989
|-
| ''[[Parade of the Planets (Parad planet)]]'' || || Soviet Army soldiers || || 1984
|-
|}

=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[E-Ring]] || || Chinese Soldier || "Pilot", With drum magazine || 2005-2006
|-
|''[[Over There]] || || Iraqi insurgent || "Prisoner" || 2005
|-
|'' [[Unit, The|The Unit]] || || Terrorist || "Always Kiss Them Goodbye" || 2006 - 2009
|-
|'' [[Falling Skies - Season 1]] || [[Mpho Koaho]] || Anthony || "The Armory" || 2011 - present
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Spec Ops: Ranger Elite]] || || || || 2001
|-
| [[America's Army]] || || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2002
|-
| [[Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising]] || || || || 2004
|-
| [[Close Combat: First to Fight]] || RPK || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || || || 2005
|-
| [[Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2]] || AK-47 LMG || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2007
|-
| [[Insurgency]] || || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2007
|-
| [[Soldier of Fortune: Payback]] ||PKR-47 || || || 2007
|-
| [[Mercenaries 2: World in Flames]] ||Automatic Rifle || w/ drum magazine || || 2008
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || || || || 2008
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || || With 75-round drum magazine || || 2009
|-
| [[Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker]]||RPK||w/ drum magazine||||2010
|-
| [[Call of Duty: Black Ops]] || RPK || Optional red dot sight/scope/IR scope and dual mags || w/ ribbed forend, relocated rear sight, and drum magazine || 2010
|-
| [[Medal of Honor (2010)|Medal of Honor]] || RPK ||w/ various attachments ||digital pre-order bonus || 2010
|-
| [[Battlefield 3]] || RPK-74M || Vertical foregrip and various attachments || Has performances of 5.45x39mm RPK-74, probably accidentally modeled on RPK || 2011
|-
| [[Battlefield Play4Free]] || As the "RPK-74M" || With Harris bipod replacing integral bipod || || 2011
|-
| [[Jagged Alliance: Back in Action]]||RPK-74||||||2012
|-
| [[Ghost Recon: Future Soldier]] || RPK ||RPKM with various atachments || uPlay bonus weapon|| 2012
|}

= RPK-74 =
[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|right|501px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|right|500px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
==Specifications==
(1974 – present)

* '''Type:''' Light Machine Gun

* '''Caliber:''' 5.45×39mm M74

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|kg|4.7}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|mm|1060}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|mm|590}}

* '''Feed System:''' 30-round box magazine or 45-round curved magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Full-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|RPK-74}}
=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
|'' [[Checkpoint (Blokpost)]] || || Russian soldier || || 1998
|-
|''[[GoldenEye]] || || Soviet soldier ||Mockup only || 1995
|-
| ''[[Job, The|The Job]]'' || [[Daryl Hannah]] || CJ March || Modified as a sniper rifle || 2003
|-
| ''[[9th Company]]'' || || Soviet soldiers || || 2005
|-
| ''[[9th Company]]'' || || Afghan soldiers || || 2005
|-
| ''[[Hooked (Na Igre)]] || || Boris Sergeevich's guard ||RPK-74M || 2009
|-
|'' [[Hooked (Na Igre)]] || || Muslim terrorists ||RPK-74M || 2009
|-
| ''[[Hooked 2. Next Level (Na Igre 2. Novyy Uroven)]] || ||Contrabandists and Boris Sergeevich's guard || || 2010
|-
|''[[Hooked 2. Next Level (Na Igre 2. Novyy Uroven)]] || [[Sergey Chirkov]] ||Vampire || || 2010
|-
|}

=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[I Have The Honor! (Chest Imeyu!)]]|| || Russian paratroopers and Chechen terrorists || || 2004
|-
|''[[Storm Gate, The|The Storm Gate]]|| || Chechen terrorists || || 2006
|-
|}

=== Video Games ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="300"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Referred as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
| [[Battlefield 2]] || || Available hand-held and in fixed positions, and vehicle-mounted || Inaccurately shown with drum magazine || 2005
|-
| [[Project Reality]] || || Mounted on pickup truck dashboard || Inaccurately shown with drum magazine || 2005
|-
| [[Jagged Alliance 2]] || || || || 1999
|-
| [[Ghost Recon]] || RPK74 || || w/ 75-round drum magazine || 2001
|-
| [[7.62 High Calibre]] || || ||RPK-74M || 2008
|-
| [[ArmA II]] || || || Inaccurately shown with drum magazine || 2009
|-
| [[MAG]] || RTK-74 || || w/ muzzle brake removed and nonexistent drum magazine || 2010
|-
| [[SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3]]|| RTK-74|||| ||2010
|-
| [[Combat Arms]] || || || With muzzle brake removed and nonexistent drum magazine || 2004
|-
|[[SOCOM 4: US Navy SEALs]]||RTK-74||||||2011
|-
| [[War Inc. Battlezone]] || || w/ various attachments ||RPK-74M || 2011
|-
| [[Jagged Alliance: Back in Action]] || RPK-74 || || w/ 45-round box magazine || 2012
|-
|}

===Anime ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| [[Angel Beats!]] || || || || 2010
|-
|}

= Zastava M72B1 =
[[Image:ZastavaM72.jpg|500px|thumb|right|Zastava M72B1 Light Machine Gun with 40-round box magazine - 7.62x39mm]]
==Specifications==
(1973 - Present)

* '''Type:''' Light Machine Gun

* '''Caliber:''' 7.62×39mm M43

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|kg|5.5}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|mm|1025}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|mm|542}}

* '''Feed System:''' 30, 40 round magazines or 75 round drum

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto/Full-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Zastava M72B1}}
=== Film ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="220"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="80"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Fall of Italy, The (Pad Italije)|The Fall of Italy (Pad Italije)]]'' || || SS soldiers, Ustasha || || 1981
|-
|''[[Black Hawk Down]] |||| Somali militiaman || || 2001
|-
|''[[No Man's Land]] || || Serbian soldiers || || 2001
|-
|''[[No Man's Land]] || || Bosnian soldiers || || 2001
|-
|}
 

=See Also=
* [[Vyatskie Polyany Machine Building Plant "Molot"]] - A list of all firearms manufactured by Vyatskie Polyany Machine Building Plant "Molot".
{{AK}}
[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Machine Gun]]

Talk:Forum Request

2013-01-26T18:12:16Z

Jeddostotle7: /* New Account */ new section

Hello, I would like a forum account. My e-mail is aps221219@hotmail.com [[User:APS221|APS221]] ([[User talk:APS221|talk]]) 22:31, 14 January 2013 (EST)

== Account ==

I would like an account please.

email: sk8tbdkid@yahoo.com

- [[User:1morey]] January 15, 2013 7:11 PM (EST)

== New Account ==

I would like an account for the forum, please.
Email: tfaholic09@gmail.com [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 13:12, 26 January 2013 (EST)

Talk:Colt 1878 Double Action

2013-01-07T04:14:58Z

Jeddostotle7:

This is a loading gate revolver right? Something about it almost makes me want to think it's a break-top.
::Yes, it's a solid frame design with a loading gate. Except for the double action trigger the drills are the same as the SAA. That said none of the parts are interchangable. - [[User:Nyles|Nyles]]

I've heard it said that firing a revolver with a single-action trigger pull will be generally more accurate than a shot fired from a double-action trigger pull. Why is this? - [[User: 2wingo]]
:It's because with double action, the trigger pull is longer, so you lose some of the steadiness in your aim when firing in double-action. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 23:14, 6 January 2013 (EST)

Talk:Colt 1878 Double Action

2013-01-07T04:14:40Z

Jeddostotle7:

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-12-25T08:00:56Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Basis of in-game Saiga? */

==Live Action Trailers==
==="Surprise" Trailer"===

====Taurus Judge====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComTaurusJudge.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Taurus Judge stuffed in a "players" vest. This appears to be standing in for the [[Taurus Raging Judge]] as the Judge dose not appear in game.]]

====Remington 870====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComRemington870.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"''Zombies? Groovy''". A "player" is about to take on a zombie horde with a Remington 870 equipped with a M4 style stock and a pump mounted tac light. Judging by this set up the regular Remington 870 seen here in standing in for the MCS version seen in game.]]

====AK74M====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComAK74M.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another "player" in the background with an AK74M due to the indent on the stock. This appears to be standing in for the AN-94 seen ingame.]]

====AKU-94====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComAKU94.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AKU-94 seen in the hands of the "player" on the left. This appears to be standing for the fictional "Type 25" seen ingame. Also their are no references to AKUs in American film or TV armories so either this is a very good mockup from a [[Norinco Type 86S]] or this is a prop.]]

====M14====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComMGLMK1&M134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Look in the bottom left corner; see that? Its the chalk outline for the M14 in zombies mode.]]

====M14 Rogue Chassis System====

[[File:M14 Rogue Chassis System.JPG|thumb|none|450px|M14 Rogue Chassis System - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:CODBO2LiveActComUnknownSniperRifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"''Hey buddy.''"]]
[[File:CODBO2LiveActComUnknownSniperRifleFront.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The front end of the M14.]]
[[File:CODBO2LiveActComUnknownSniperRifleScope.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The scope.]]

====XM8 (Prop)====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComLikelyXM8Prop.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An XM8 with the fictional "MMS" optic. Due to obvious reason this is definitely a prop.]]

====Milkor MGL Mk 1====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComMGLMK1&M134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Oh you're screwed.]]

====GE M134====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComMGLMK1&M134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CGI rendered M134s on CLAW AI vehicles.]]

====Semtex====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComSemtex.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Semtex ready to blow while the guy in the back gives us an epic "oh crap" face.]]

=== LG Cinema Trailer===

====AK Type Rifle====

[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComAKRifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An AK type rifle in the background. Its possible its the AK74M listed above.]]

:For some reason, it gives me Vz. 58 vibes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:04, 23 November 2012 (EST)

====M16 Type Rifle====

[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComXM8PropCloseUp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle on the left bares resemblance to an M16 style rifle.]]

====XM8 (Dressed up G36K)====
The fictional "M8A1" variant of the [[Heckler & Koch XM8|H&K XM8 rifle]] appears in the trailer being wielded by a player. Based on close examination, the rifle can be seen ejecting spent casings and appears to have a hinge where the stock connects to the receiver, suggesting that, unlike the one seen in the ''Surprise'' trailer, it could possibly be a live-firing [[Heckler & Koch G36K]] dressed up as an XM8 rather than a prop as previously believed.
[[Image:Xm8 rightmed.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Older version of Heckler & Koch XM8 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:HKG36KR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36KV with rail top carry handle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComGM134CLAW&XM8Prop.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player firing his G36K. The muzzle flash looks real enough to not be CG.]]
[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComXM8PropCloseUp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close up of the dressed up G36K.]]

====GE M134====

[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComGM134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An M134 mounted on the CLAW.]]
[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComGM134CLAW&XM8Prop.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closeup.]]

== Button mashing ==
Anyone else hate the useless button mashing sequences, I have died about 30 times under that horse by now, just waiting for that idiot to figure out a human can't life a horse hehe. Why do they put them in shooters anyway? --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 11:52, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Urmmm... And how's that relevant to this page? You're just raging at the game xD --[[User:Alisha161fishy|Alisha161Fishy]] ([[User talk:Alisha161fishy|talk]]) 17:00, 14 November 2012 (EST)

You're not supposed to mash for that particular section. You need to hold the triggers/mouse buttons to successfully clear that segment. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 18:05, 15 November 2012 (EST)

== The Newest Joke? ==
Why put up a IMFDB page of this game when it looks clearly like a waste of money - Anonymous User

Because I am loking forward to this game, and cheevo hunting. Besides I am the only biotic organism that plays CoD for the SP and not the multi (well, except for split-screening with my girlfriend). Anyways, I like Call of Duty, and I think this will be cool, and I cannot wait to see what new weapons they will have. - [[User:1morey]] May 6, 2012 8:58 AM (EST)

Because we hate you, that's why. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:44, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

:And ''he sucks'' and we hate him. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:30, 9 June 2012 (CDT)

Sorry [[User:1morey|1morey]], but you are not the only "biotic organism" who buy CoD only for the SP campaign XD [[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]

I too like to play CoD single player campaigns. I dabbled a little in MP here and there, but don't really understand what all the fuss is about. If only the developers put in as much time and effort into the SP nowadays, like they used too :( --[[User:Ultimagameboy|Ultimagameboy]] 19:12, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

If IW/Treyarch put as much effort into SP as they do MP these days, we ''might'' actually get an SP game as epic, or better than, CoD4's. Even today with my negative opinion of the CoD franchise, I ''still'' consider CoD4 to be one of the most epic games I've ever played. This is why I like Battlefield and MoH over CoD, because the devs actually put some effort into SP to make it believable and entertaining instead of just putting millions of random enemies with random guns in front of you in a random location and calling it a story. Maybe the plots of those games weren't as dramatic as Russian paras suddenly falling on suburban USA (if I want to see that, I'll put my ''[[Red Dawn (1984)|Red Dawn]]'' Blu-Ray in), but at least they were believable as events that could ''actually'' happen in the real world, especially so with them taking place in more or less the present day. While that may not matter to others, it ''does'' to me and if I can't accept something happening in reality, I can't get engrossed in it in the game. I call it the "Barney Principle". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:02, 23 November 2012 (EST)

== XM8? ==
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg

Weapon in the pic looks like a modified XM8 [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks like the hybrid ACR from RE6 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:31, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks to just be like a space gun... It "resembles" a XM8 and an ACR, but looks like the SCAR from Crysis. It's just a future weapon. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:40, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

To be more specific,it appears to be the Malaysian variant of the XM8,the Malaysian variant has no built in scope like on the ones designed for the U.S Army,but a rail instead.however it has extra features of weapons such as the ACR, which Treyarch probably to give their own artistic touch to make it look unique and futuristic.[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

In the description, someone wrote that it is based on the M41A1 pulse rifle from Aliens. How? Why? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:52, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

No response to why somebody say the rifle was based on the Pulse Rifle from Aliens? Also is it me or does the firepower of this gun seem a bit weak? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:34, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Don't know about it being based on the M41A (come on, it's ''clearly'' based on the minigun in ''Predator'' [/joke]), but I think given a beefier stock, Treyarch's incarnation would actually look ''good''. Its lines do certainly look more pleasing to me than the current version, and I'm probably one of the biggest XM8 critics on this site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:12, 23 November 2012 (EST)

I was just now watching the Cinema commercial on YouTube (hey, if there's one thing IW and Treyarch can do right, it's advertise their games) and caught this.

[[File:XM8 Blops 2.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]

This "prop" is ejecting a spent casing, which looks legit enough, and the muzzle flash doesn't look like CGI, either (CGI muzzle flashes tend to be quite distinguishable from the real thing, from my TV viewing experience). In addition, you can very faintly make out what looks like a hinge where the stock and receiver connect. Could it be a dressed up G36 rather than a prop? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:59, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:Yeah, I think that bulky carry handle is there to cover up a real G36 carry handle underneath, and the magwell looks right for a G36 and wrong for an XM8. Though, um...Unless the bottom of the trigger guard is missing, how can he pull the trigger with his finger there? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:07, 26 November 2012 (EST)

::Another G36 indicator is that the stock is side folding. On the XM8 it is only collapsible. A more accurate XM8 mock up based on a G36 can be seen in [[XXX:_State_of_the_Union#.28Fake.29_Heckler_.26_Koch_XM8|XXX: State of the Union]]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:35, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:::Interestingly the in-game weapon also has a G36-style magwell. Might have used the dressed-up prop as a reference, even. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:07, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:::Strike what I typed previously in this space, I misread Commando's comment and thought he was citing a ''lack'' of a folding stock on the M8A1 mock up. My bad. Since there seems to be a consensus, I'm going to change the XM8 prop entry for the Cinema trailer to state that it's a G36 (probably a K, judging by the barrel length and exposed gas block) dressed up as an XM8. The one used in the ''Surprise'' trailer looks more like the in-game model, so I'm inclined to say that one ''is'' a prop. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:23, 26 November 2012 (EST)

== Future Warfare ==
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-074340.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070746.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-065949.jpg

The game is set in near future, rumours say it's in 2027. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

That's what we've been needing. More future crap. ~ACE

Call Of Recon: Ghost Ops --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Well, I've given up on the series now that being on top of five grenades when they go off doesn't kill people.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

:Givern how CoD does with real weapons, watching them making up weapons should be eight kinds of hilarious. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:10, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

its been confirmed to be set in the year 2025,i would imagine a mixture of real weapons,and Treyarch-created mashups will be included[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

As long as we get (have) to shoot hundreds of rounds full auto at each quadrupedal robot it will apparently be awesome. I hope bullets have no effect on enemies until they suddenly die also. ~ACE

:I don't know, as long as the robots acknowledge being hit, a linebreaker enemy that stops you getting bogged down in one place can be good. ''Resistance: Fall of Man'' had enemies which would use their superior hitpoints (3+ headshots on normal for grunts with the basic rifles) to advance under fire while firing from the hip, which meant they ''didn't'' have to spam grenades at you constantly to stop you staying in one place (also they had Steelheads with guns that shot through walls to help them with that). It actually made the firefights rather more interesting than the headshot = dead standard. Though they at least reacted to being shot (flinched but kept running), it wasn't like ''STALKER'' where enemies were either alive or dead and wouldn't acknowledge any state in between (which in ''Clear Sky'' where they jacked up Bloodsucker HP ridiculously meant you weren't actually sure you were even hurting them).

:In general enemy variety is a huge weakness for modern shooters, since almost everything is 'man with gun.' If they do this ''right'' it could actually have far more varied firefights. Or they'll just have it invincible until you find the glowing rocket launcher Private Dies In An Inconvenient Place dropped, which seems more likely all things considered. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

::Dual wielding Javelins. ~ACE

== Come On ==

There is NOTHING warranting a page for this yet. All of you fanboys need to drop your cocks and have a little patience. Would any IMFDB mods put up with this for any other page or project with the same amount of leaked content, being 1, maybe 2 usable pictures? No way; this whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If there's nothing concrete worth putting on the main page, stick to the Treyarch forums. It's insane how quickly the COD community jumped onto it on IMFDB. It's fucking preposterous to discuss ONE PICTURE for a WHOLE GAME THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED YET. Please, fanboys, calm down, and don't get ahead of yourselves. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 16:38, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Finally someone who agrees with me. --[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I can't disagree [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:18, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

The game has been officially announced, there are several pictures on CallofDuty.com --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:47, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Plus, a trailer is coming out today [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:29, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Trailer released, and I can already see inclusions in the form of the M249. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 19:21, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Weapon Spots ==

Weapon spots from the trailer that I found in the new trailer: at 0:30 there is a M134 Minigun (future-ized) mounted on a four legged combat drone, 0:43 there is a tank drone that appears to have a Metal Storm weapon mounted on its left (our right), 1:09 there is a future pistol (seems unrelated to any real world firearm), 1:11 there is a future-ized XM8, 1:18 there is an M16 (which model can't tell though length suggest it is a full length barrel and has 20 round magazine), 1:27 there what appears to be an M249 SAW (or M240), 1:31 there is a soldier with a balaclava firing a bullpup short barreled weapon that bears resemblance to the QBZ-95, at 1:31 or 1:32 (very easy to miss) there is a soldier being blown away holding an AK variant and by the looks of the handguard and flash hider it is an AN-94, at 1:34 in horseback solders are armed with WWII bolt action rifles, at 1:36 the technical is armed with a Dshk hmg, 1:44 hard to make out but rider on the right has an AK pattern weapon, likely an AK-47 since it looks like the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, 1:48 unknown shotgun. That's all I found for now. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 21:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:I have an intuition that the M16 might (and I have empathize this, ''might'') be an A1 variant or a faux XM16 judging solely from silhouette of the upper receiver. The SAW apparently has an Mk 48 Mod 1 styled heat shield and handguard but that doesn't really mean anything, considering how the franchise loves to mix and match different variants. Weapon at 1:32, on the other hand, is ''definitely'' an AN-94. At least in aesthetic terms.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:03, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:: Isn't it "Kriss USA" instead of "TDI" now?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 08:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Possibly, but KRISS ALLCAPS TACTICOOL ARMS is a stupid title and they were TDI first. They only changed it because they've belatedly discovered the mil-spec subgun market is a ghost town if you're not an MP5 and they're only ever going to sell Vectors to mall ninjas. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

==Designated Arguing/Complaining Area==
Before this discussion page turns to chaos like all the other CoD talk pages, let's open up a designated complaint zone. I know many people want to offer their negative opinions about the game, so if you don't have any real discussion topics please post in subheadings here. Hopefully this will allow people who want to actually discuss the game rather than arguing or whining to avoid these comments and have an actual discussion.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

===What is this going to be like===
I have looked at the trailer several times. This is how I think the games success is going to be. A: It will be a huge hit and sell millions of copies like all other COD games or B: It is going to be a complete and total disaster and there will never be another COD game made again in our lifetimes. I find from what I learned from the plot line details that has been released that it is going to feature what the first Black Ops did, except that the flashbacks will be set in the 1980's and the present 2025. I am wondering how Treyarch is going to do that. This will be a very curious COD game that I will be wondering about UNTIL it comes out.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 21:58, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

===Wow...===
I'll start off by saying the obvious- this game looks stupid. I mean, why jump from the 60's to the 2020's? I could see the futuristic idea that they were trying for, but this looks like a Ghost Recon rip-off. I have just lost what little respect I had for Treyarch. As more details become availiable, I might change my mind, but first impressions are not good. As with any game, if it is fun I will play it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

I've lost respect for the Call of Duty franchise after Infinity Ward broke up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

After at least one failed Soviet aggression in the late 60s, failed invasion of the Eastcoast US, ''failed'' (third time's the charm, right?) invasion of continental Europe within the last three games alone, you'd think the US at least would just get used to getting attacked on a major scale by this point.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:09, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:Well they have, it's pretty clear from MW2 that Russia tries to nuke the US so often in this universe that they didn't even bother with a counter-launch since that would just encourage them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:11, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I can't believe how generic they managed to make their new take on the series. Evil robots, mechs on four legs and choppers with unnecesserly many features. It's basically the same as every futuristic game. On top of it the game looks awful, name doesn't make sense, it looks more over-the-top than MW3. Could Treyarch have mistaken May 1 for April 1? This either is a joke, or will become one.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 05:46, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

What the hell were Treyarch thinking? I was seriously hoping too see what happened to Hudson, Weaver and Mason in Operation Charybdis and maybe if we would get to see how Price started his career. It is often better to go back to basics than too go forward complications. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
:What made you so sure that Price was going to be in this game?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:45, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:Modern Warfare is set in a different continuity, and they even wanted to spin it off into an entirely separate franchise. The Call of Duty label was stuck on by Activision as a way of marketing it. Price won't be appearing because he doesn't exist. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:From what I've read on CoD wiki and heard, 1/3 of the game will take place in the 80s and the rest in 2025--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 09:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

: @ The Wierd It - the 'intel' at the ending of the final story mission of Black Ops suggest that Mason is being hunted by an SAS team in South Africa lead by a young operative called 'Jonathan' which many people have taken to mean a very young Captain Price [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::I think it's very unlikely that they'll have any crossovers between the WaW/BO and MW universes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:47, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
::I know that. I'm wondering where the leap in logic came that took people from one of the more common first names in the English language to "this is obviously meant to be Price". [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:36, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well, it's positively rational compared to the kind of logical gymnastics that some rumour threads get. "I performed a series of random mathematical actions on this Valve press release and made the number 3! Episode 3 confirmed!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:59, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
The first thing I thought when I saw the trailer was that this game was CoD attempting to piggyback on the whole idea of Metal Gear Solid 4. Then I saw the horse sequences and realized I was actually watching an Uncharted 3 trailer. --[[User:K|K]] 19:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I honestly like the way it's going now. I liked Black Ops better than Modern Warfare because it went to a setting not commonly covered (especially in big-budget titles) and had some more interesting segments than just running through an urban environment shooting dozens of AK-toting terrorists or Russians. I'm interested in seeing how Black Ops II progresses now that they're able to create their own technology (no worries of anachronisms or errors). It's a refreshing change of pace from generic World War II and modern day "realistic" shooters. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

@ The Wierd It - Ok mate, fair enough I might have jumped the gun. But on what we know from the intel in Black Ops and the character of Price in the MW franchise, ("promising SAS solider named Jonathan" also referred to as Price in the french Black Ops) - basing it on that knowledge, see why I jumped the gun? However, they brought Woods back for this one, when we were all sure he was dead, what's too say a very young Price won't be featuring in this game? [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

:I still love COD4, great game, but now I refuse to play anything after it. I did play through MW3's story to see the ending, and the MW series' ''story'' is pretty good, but the 2 and 3's gameplay is soooooo bad. In every single mission except one, you start with a reflex sight on your gun in MW3. The other mission you have a pistol. I'm gonna follow this page just to see how bad they can make it. I find it really funny how Halo and Mass Effect have guns (and tech) that are more realistic than MW2/BO/MW3/BO2. Hell, not just more realistic, Halo and ME's weapons ''actually make sense''. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:23, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

It looks like the US got some help from the Combine with those 4 propeller gunships they have. Maybe we might see an AR1 or a Strider? :D [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:12, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

===My two cents on the matter===
Ok... well, first off, I'll admit that I am a fan of CoD. But from the first glance of this trailer, I think that Activision needs it's old management back, and fire the current management along with Robert Kotick.

Seriously Robert? This is what Black Ops II is going to be? A pseudo-futuristic first person shooter with player-driven choices thrown into the mix?

I was expecting that the next Call of Duty was going to be the inevitable Black Ops II (and if not that, then maybe something different for a change like making the game about a war that many people have forgotten about, like World War I or the Korean War, cause World War II and Vietnam get WAY too much attention). but I was expecting it to dive into details about Black Ops operations in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s when the United States got involved in conflicts during those years AFTER the Vietnam war (a.k.a., Grenada, Panama, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Gulf War I, Bosnian conflicts, etc.). But really, THIS is the best idea that your workers came up with? Some cyberwar between China and the United States?

Ok, from what I've read, there will be some throwbacks to the 1980s in this game, but adding in player-driven choices which affect the outcome of the game is a bad idea. I play Call of Duty for mindless entertainment and for shooting things, not to play over and over for making different moral decisions every time to get all the endings of the game! If I wanted a first person shooter with that theme, I'd go play Fallout 3. (Speaking of which, do you think we're really that stupid to notice that you guys stole "The Vault" name?)
: A video game uses the word "Vault" to refer to a location. Must have been stolen from Fallout, since they invented....the English language? [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

As for the weapons... you guys do realize that MANY of these weapons are either still on the drawing board, in the prototype stages, canceled (*cough* XM8 *cough*), or being tested in LIMITED numbers, and that we might not be seeing ANY of them in any future war by the year 2025... right?

it isn't even an xm8, i don't know how it could be a wrong choice for a gun if the gun itself isn't actually a real concept of any kind, its just a futuristic-looking gun designed by treyarch, and what would firing bobby kotick actually do it wouldn't change any of the games because he doesn't make any desicions regarding them, he worries about the money side e.g. the budget, the advertisement.
also the creators of fallout didn't actually invent the word vault so i don't really know what the pointless rant was for.--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 02:48, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

In the game it's called an M8A1. It's definitely the XM8. It's Treyarch doing what they do. Being creative with things that shouldn't have creativity added. [[User:DJCDavisDubstep|DJCDavisDubstep]] 16:25, 10 July 2012 (PDT)

Well... maybe I might give this game a chance when it comes out. But seriously, if this is what all future Call of Duty games are going to follow from this point onward, then I will stick with the older ones instead. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 22:20, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

Hey, thanks to the video game industry, one would think that there may be a chance that the project will get cancelled like many games before it... unfortunately since the Call Of Duty franchise pops out games like a mother rabbit the future seems bleak...
--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 01:44, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure the game will still have all the mindless shooter nonsense that makes them millions and spawns dozens of poor imitations, but the addition of branching storylines and sandbox gameplay at least makes things more interesting. The Call of Duty formula stagnated with Modern Warfare 2, as it showed that it was little more than repeating the same basic formula with minor changes that add less new content than the average DLC pack. Black Ops at least tried to break from the mold a bit with the helicopter sequences (a throwback to the old games' vehicle segments) and the protagonist not suddenly losing his voice when you look through his eyes. I'm proud of Treyarch for trying to actually do something different and make an interesting game instead of following Infinity Ward and Activision's lead and just making a clone of Black Ops with some new weapons and tweaking the multiplayer. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

== M16A1? ==

Link to image

(403 error)

also the futuristic M4: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120502191412/callofduty/images/5/53/20120502-084241.jpg

The 'futuristic' M4 in the link above appears to be based upon the GR4 G26 airsoft rifle manufactured by Guay & Guay. Shown here for comparison: http://www.titano-shopping.com/immagini/Prodotti/Big/GR4_G26_DST

Yes it looks like that... It's not the first time CoD takes from airosft the looks for the guns

I wouldn't be surprised if they just used that futuristic looking gun for the photoshoot for the poster and it doesn't appear at all in the game itself. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:32, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

All those links are broken. Also I saw the recent trailer and the sillohuotte images of the M16 does look like an A1 from the handguard but the pop up trailer on gametrailers.com called it a classic M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:51, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

:Classic? It was an M4 before there were any M4s. That's a hipster M4 if there ever was one... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:43, 5 May 2012 (CDT)

Speaking of the M16A1, why are we given the A1 in the game. The story mission where the weapon was recommended took place in 1989 in Panama. The standard mag looks like a 20 rounder and it was called the A1. By the 80s, the US Army had already started using 30 round mags and replaced the A1 with the A2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:33, 14 November 2012 (EST)

I'm surprised they didn't bring back the CAR-15 or whatever that was in the first game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:39, 15 November 2012 (EST)

== Rename ==

Shouldn't the page be renamed to "Call of Duty: Black Ops II". With the Roman numerals, because that's what all official material lists it as. - [[User:1morey]] May 5, 2012 8:59 AM (EST)

:Naw, since that would put it out of order when they inevitably make Black Ops 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:08, 6 May 2012 (CDT)

::A note could be made in the first paragraph though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:36, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

::Or the page could simply be named correctly. Who care if the games aren't listed in order of release. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 14:17, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

== AK variant during horse scene ==

Recently revealed production images of Black Ops 2 not only show how seriously Treyarch is taking the precise animation of horses but also that the AK variants they are carrying are actually mo-capped TOYS:
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2012/05/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-II-Horse-Motion-Capture-2.jpg

:Ha, that's the most obvious airsoft horse I've ever seen. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:40, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

== Bulldog Assault Rifle ==

Trailer from BO2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr0Z3RsOmlo

looks like the assault rifle from distric 9 use by the bad guys

:Looks like a futuristic QB rifle variant to me.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 06:34, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

::The name "Type 25" has been mentioned. Could that be it?

:::Most likely is. In fact, it almost definitely is, but we can't actually confirm that until the game comes out. Also, remember to sign your posts. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 05:46, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Preview ==

A preview mentions the Type 95 and Keltec KSG by name. Will wait for screens.
http://www.nowgamer.com/xbox-360/xbox-360-previews/1388343/black_ops_2_campaign_eyeson_with_two_levels_protect_potus_singapore.html

Well hopefully it's the real Type 95 and not the Type 97 misnamed [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Black Ops 2 Behind the Scenes E3 trailer ==

The new Behind the Scenes BO2 trailer released at E3 shows a couple of guns, most notably a sniper rifle at 3:18
Link to trailer: http://youtu(dot)be/GElKpJLvKLc
:2:08, what looks like a Galil SAR, 2:41, possible MM1 grenade launcher [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 05:37, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

In another behind the scenes trailer, there's a KRISS Vector.--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 15:03, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== There's a reason the Vector is called a K10 ==

Apparently, at SHOT Show 2011, a newer, improved, slightly more compact variant of the Vector with a telescoping stock was revealed, called the K10.
Here's the source:
:http://www.defensereview.com/kriss-k10-super-v-vector-xsmg-submachine-gun-smg-product-improvedupgraded-multi-caliber-subgun-for-special-operations-forces-sof-and-close-quarters-battle-cqb-applications-shot-show-2011-phot/

It does look slightly different from the Vector, though:
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_1.jpg
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_2.jpg
--[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:45, 6 July 2012 (PST)

== LAPD Shotgun ==

I don't really think that we can call the fact that the LAPD officers are using the KSG incorrect, since the game takes place in the future. Apparently in the time the game takes place, we will have flying, fighting robots, so it's not too hard to imagine that the LAPD could have switched shotguns. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:02, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, that's what I was thinking. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:48, 6 July 2012 (PST)

::Well after talking to some cops, it really depends on the department to say what an officer can have in his car. A lot can get their own personal shotguns in their car after qualifying with it. Not sure about a KSG, but it's possible if approved [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:22, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Yeah, it would probably be even more likely to be in use since the game takes place in the future. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:25, 10 July 2012 (PST)

== The Unknown Shotgun ==

The unknown shotgun is actually the Storm PSR (the ridiculous X-Ray Railgun thing), if you look closely at Harper's vest the white dot is from the scope, and it's also been stated by Treyarch that the Storm PSR has three barrels.... --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 21:20, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

== Gameplay footage ==

Well folks, here's a video from E3 showcasing the extended gameplay of Black Ops 2, and what might be expected in the game when it's released: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTtsn2Srm3E] --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 in segment taking place in the 80's? ==

It seems to me that part of the trailer the AN-94 appears in takes place in one of the 80's segments of the game. I shouldn't be surprised, but seriously, this seems like an even bigger anachronism than usual, even though it's not. Anyone else thinking the same? --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 2:57, 10 July 2012 (PST)

:You never know just because it was seen in the desert doesn't mean its in the 80's segment of the game.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

::That's not what I meant, I just meant if it was part of the main 2025 story line of the game, there probably would have been '''some''' kind of future technology. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 3:14, 10 July 2012 (PST)

Oh yeah, it'll be anachronistic, no doubts there. This is Treyarch, after all. Do you think you'll be seeing anything (non-explosive) from the 20th Century in the future setting? I don't.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:28, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I have no doubt there'll be TONS of anachronisms in the 80's parts. I think the QBZ-97 was in the future part, so that's one thing from the 20th century in the future setting. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:41, 10 July 2012 (PST)

::I did not see it, are you talking about the fictional Type 25, or did i miss it?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:46, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Go on the page, there'll be a QBZ-97, and then it'll say "Type 25" somewhere else on the page. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 5:24, 10 July 2012 (PST)

==SCAR-L :)==

http://k31.kn3.net/D8EA00866.png

Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QP3_8y8uzk

:I'm afraid the picture link doesn't work, but the rifle that appears 1:45 is most definitely a SCAR-H. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:05, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

== IMFDB's Fault ==

Does anyone think that the fact that this game takes place in the future is partly our (IMFDB's users) fault. I bet someone working for Treyarch saw the IMFDB page for Black Ops and how the anachronistic guns are criticized, and thought, "We're anachronistic, are we? Well let's see about being anachronistic when the game takes place over a decade in the future!" --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:46, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

That's.... something to think about for awhile and if they did then either 3arc will be more accurate with the guns or make the guns worst than the first time.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 12:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I don't know why it's such a big deal to everyone, just treat the "game" as a "game" and play it; there are too many over-opinionated comments with the words I DON'T LIKE IT, WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE IT LIKE I WANTED IT!!! WAAAAHHH
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 16:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

To be fair you do know where you are right? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 17:12, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Nah, I highly doubt that anyone at Treyarch or Activision has taken the time to read up about their videogames being featured on this site, and the legit or unnecessary complaints people have made about their past games. IMFDB has been a growing name in the film industry for a while now and this site is often browsed and looked into by those who have made or acted in the films featured on here and many of the administrators (the ones who work in the industry) can vouch for that. But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

You do realize that I meant this as a joke, right? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:07, 21 July 2012 (CDT)

"But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that."

I see where you're getting at, but I want to make a point. I was hoping for a bunch of weapons to be in CoJ 3. And more than a handful of them were in the game (or a variant of the weapon). Just to make this clear, I am an admin for the CoJ Wiki, and we have connections to Techland. And I had posted links to the IMFDB CoJ pages on the fan page for CoJ on Facebook (Which Techland frequents).
I was hoping for a Skorpion, Benelli M4, SW Model 29, FN FAL, M72 LAW, and FN Five-seveN. They were in the game.
I was hoping for a Uzi (Instead, a Mini Uzi), A Sig-Sauer (Instead a SIG Mosquito), Remington 700 ( Instead a Remington M24), MP5 variant (The game had a MP5A2), AR-15 variant (The game had a HK416), Mossberg 500 variant (The game had a Mossberg 500A Field Gun). Now I'm not saying Techland read the page and said "Ph hey, this 1morey guy wants to see these weapons, let's answer his request." That's not what I am saying at all, but I wouldn't doubt they read the page, and used the list as "inspiration". Another user had wanted a Steyr AUG A3. That was a cut weapon.

Anyways, back on topic. I don't doubt some video game companies use this site as inspiration, but if I had to pick one, I would say Infinity Ward, EA, and Treyarch probably don't look at this site at all, I think they just watch a bunch of movies, or see what other games have. - [[User:1morey]] August 7, 2012 3:10 PM (EST)
I mean if this isn't a coincidence, I don't know what is.

== Multiplayer Reveal Trailer ==

The new trailer for the multiplayer of BO2 just went up, showing a plethora of new weapons: -killerkirill, 19:13 GMT, 07/08/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrOpWYsp3L8&feature=g-u-u

:Well, the good thing at least is that the main page will be considerably shorter and easier to maintain. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 14:28, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Taurus Raging Bull/Dan Wesson???, barrett/steyr sniper?/ Mechem NTW?, SRM Arms Model 1212/1216?, Remington MSR? and lots, lots more. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:04, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

This game is going to be worse than Crysis for people coming up with contrived "hybrid" explanations for the guns. That shotgun does look pretty close to a SRM Arms Model 1216 though, even looks like the player is correctly rotating the magazine very 4 shots, never thought I would see that in a game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:25, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

i have played it safe and included the dsr-50 sniper rifle in the page, source= http://mp1st.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Screen-Shot-2012-08-07-at-1.58.00-PM-600x331.png

yellow sniper looks like the Remington MSR, an Ashbury ASW338LM, or an FN SCAR - SSR Mk.20 Mod.0 / Sniper Support Rifle with modifications including bolt action.

--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 23:30, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Looking through screenshots in this article: [url=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/362018/39-black-ops-2-multiplayer-screens-from-the-trailer/?page=1#top_banner] 
-LSAT LMG 
-AN-94 
-QCW-05 known as "Chicom QCB" 
-Kriss K-10 
-H&K XM8 is known as the "M8A1", this is very clearly seen in screencap 17. 
-"Ballista" bolt-action sniper in screencap 18- has an extremely similar first-person appearance to BF3's [[MKEK JNG-90]] 
-FN Mk.48 
-"PDW-5.7" in screencap 12, quite likely a [[P90]] variant, it looks like one, 50 round mag, plus the P90 is a PDW in 5.7 mm. Seen in pic 32 in 3rd person. 
-[[SRM Arms 1200 Series Shotguns|M1216 Shotgun]] 
-Taurus Raging Bull in screencap 12- distinctive sights and red backstrap. 
-Unknown in screencap 20 
-Screencap 25 is possibly also the "Ballista"? Looks similar but too small. 
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 13:13, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

It's the FN Ballista, a new-ish rifle designed to compete with the MSR--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 13:37, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

:Using steel torsion bar action and firing a 7.62mm log? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:51, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

::Thanks Recon42, I hadn't heard of the FN Ballista before. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 16:15, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
::: For future reference: [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF076&gid=FNG005 FNH USA's page on the Ballista].[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:36, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
::: [[:File:FNBallista.jpg|Image uploaded and ready for use.]] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:43, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
This made me remember an interesting thing. I read Treyarch has said there will be no 1980's weapons in multiplayer, but yet the AN-94 is there. Is the information wrong or will the AN-94 not feature in the 80's?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 11:49, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

So, Treyarch is copying BF3 and letting you use iron sights on the sniper rifles, maybe that means they can actually be used to kill people in this one, since long ranged scope rifles were never very practical in the tiny maps of the COD series. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:40, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

even though call of duty: world at war had unscoped sniper rifles and also, Battlefield copied call of duty with ELITE/PREMIUM service and Spec-Ops mode yet this doesn't help anyone. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 15:18, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

I'm not saying that BF doesn't copy COD, it does, I know that and everybody else knows that. I wasn't saying , "BF is better than COD, because BF is original." The only points I was trying to make was that due to the popularity of non-scoped sniper rifles in BF3, 3arc decided to add this feature and that sniper rifle were not useful in COD multiplayer. WAW didn't really have unscoped sniper rifles, they were infantry rifles that you could mount a scope on, it's the equivalent of putting a sniper scope on an assault rifle in a game that takes place in modern times. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:09, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

== Raging Judge model ==

I think the Raging Judge that they are basing their model on based on is this one:
[[File:Taurus Raging Judge XXVII.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Taurus Raging Judge - 28 gauge]]
This is chambered in 28 gauge shotshells (which is 13.97mm or .550in for those wondering) and was unveiled in 2011 but was blocked (for valid reasons in my opinion) by the BATFE so it never entered production. Despite this, the fact that the gun in the game has a five round unfluted cylinder as opposed to the 6 round fluted cylinder on the .454 production model indicates that this was their source material. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:42, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:So, um...Were they trying to beat the Maadi-Griffin in the stupid handgun cartridge arms race? I'm calling it, someone's going to have made a handgun that fires 20mm Hispano by 2020. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::"A Taurus Raging Judge, identifiable by the red stripe along the handle..." Doesn't the [[Taurus Raging Bull]] have the same stripe on the grips? Is there anything else to prove that this is a Raging Judge and not a Raging Bull? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:08, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:::It does also say "Raging Judge" in the bottom right corner of the HUD. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:21, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::::Well, that would do it then. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:24, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Weapons once the game is released ==

Once the game is released, and after a few days, the page is mostly completed, should we mention for the weapons which ones are based on the actual weapons, and which ones are just "futuristic" versions of the weapon. Anyone get what I'm saying.

Like the Chicom QCB, is that really a QCW-05, or is that a futuristic gun modeled after the QCW-05? I figure the TDI Kard is a TDI Kard, because it does't really need mocked up that much, since the real-life weapon looks futuristic already. - [[User:1morey]] August 14, 2012 12:03 PM (EST)

== Weapon selection video ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fuba3mPotE

DSR-50 | SVU | Ballista

fictional M1216 | Saiga 12 | Remington M870 RCS

LSAT | QBB-95 | Mk48

Skorpion EVO A3

KARD | FNP-45 Tactical | Taurus | futurised M93R

M8A1 | SMR (futurised AUGA3?) | futurised Type 95 | SA58 | SIG556 | SCAR-H | AN-94

Milkor MGL | futurised Stinger | handheld GAU-19/A

A-10 | Commanche [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 04:53, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== B23-R Nomenclature ==

Could B23-R stand for " Beretta 2023 Raffica"? It's very similar to other Beretta pistols, so I guess that's a reasonable guess [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:42, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:I don't think so, as to me I think it is a 1911 based pistol. The shaoe of the rear of the slide, the hammer and the trigger look very 1911-ish to me. Also, I just want to point out that the comment about the two ejection ports makes absolutely no sense. First off, I don't think it is a second ejection port, but is simply where the top of the slide has been removed showing the exposed barrel (think the Beretta 92 but with a bridge in front of the ejection area). Secondly, how would having an ejection port in front of another make it possible to eject the cartridges out the other side? The slide would have to travel back further to line the chamber up with this second ejection port for one thing which I can't see being possible. The layout of this gun is pretty standard so I don't think it will be doing anything crazy, and regardless this feature would have absolutely no utility or point in a game.

== M249 SAW and MK48 are the same ==

Look at the gas regulator plug of the so called M249 SAW. It is clearly from an Mk 48. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:17, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== Can we PLEASE change it? ==

Could we please get rid of the two ejection ports bullshit from the B23-R section of the page? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 17:45, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

:If you want to change it, then change it. I doubt anyone is going to argue with you. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:59, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

::Hm, looks like someone already did. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 18:37, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 ==
I like the comment under the pic of the AN-94 reloading that says it has 5.56 rounds in the mag, so it could be a fictional export version. It could be, OR more reasonably, the developers decided to ignore the calibers and modeled the same cartridges in all of the assault rifles' magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:51, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
:It's the later. And even if it happens to be the former, I doubt they would care enough to give an explanation ingame. But they stopped caring about these 'tiny details' a long time ago.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:52, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
::Yeah, it seems they are so many overspeculations on this page, like the how it says the B-23 is possibly a Beretta. Why, because it has the letter B, it doesn't really look like any Beretta design. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:43, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
:::To be honest, in my opinion the 'B23R' doesn't actually resemble, outside of it's name, any real specific pistol. It's just a chimera of different futuristic parts that fulfills the same gameplay niche as the Beretta 93R from the previous titles.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 15:00, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
::::Sorry about that comment, I noticed the rounds were 5x56MM NATO. The part about it being an export version was unnecessary for me to write, it's much more reasonable that it's just lack of detail by the developers.
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 15:54, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

== Beta leak ==

I know it can't be used on the main page, but for those who are planning on playing the game and are curious about the weapons, 7 new ones were found in the leaked beta build, [http://videobam.com/RHFxv here's a video of them.] --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] ([[User talk:Ghostdigga|talk]]) 21:20, 18 September 2012 (EDT)

Ahh, the return of select-fire. Missed it from the original COD and the United Offensive expansion. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 07:52, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Text confirms that the Taurus does actually fire the 28 gauge shotgun shells it is meant to. This surprises me, I assumed they just based the model on the wrong image. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:38, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

m27 iar, scar type lmg, and i would say the rpg was airtronic due to this pic:
look at the solider on the left

http://cdn.medialib.oxm.co.uk/screens/screenshot_30711.jpg
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] ([[User talk:Pistolpete|talk]]) 09:47, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

::Five-seveN, MTAR, M27 and FN HAMR spotted. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 09:17, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/120918a.jpg

== H&K m27 ==

On the cod wikia i found the m27 i know the hk416 m27 variant so i identified it as the actual m27 no real modification to make it look futuristic their calling it an assault rifle (facepalm) there's a picture on there I don't know to upload pictures on here though.--[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 18:45, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:Eh, if they're using an M27 with a 30-rounder and calling it an AR I wouldn't really call that wrong per se, since the M27 is only a SAW because the USMC is issuing it as one (much like the QJY-88 is issued as a GPMG even though it's actually an LMG). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:00, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
::Yeah, I agree, and most Marines that were issued it are using it as an AR, apparently, because it essentially is. Also, person above Evil Tim, please sign your name by pressing the signature button at the top or putting four of this: ~ after your name. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 10:18, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
::: Yeah sorry i need to remember that i know how to do just forgot but i also facepalmed but its not a 30 round capacity i found that out it appears to be but its going to have a 50 round capacity granted there are 50 round AR mags but still combined with extended clip and all that other COD BS it might as well be an LMG. --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 18:45, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:::: New footage of the m27 in the zombies gameplay trailer on top on a bus also new footage of the m1216 and the pdw 57 and what appear to be the tar 21 or QBZ-97 in the video --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 20:25, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:The M27 is not an assault rifle. It is a Squad Automatic Weapon, which can be considered as a sub-category of the machine gun group. Magazine size has nothing to do with its classification. The Minimi or RPK will not be "denoted" to an assault rifle is you use it with a 30-round STANAG/AK magazine. The M27 is the same as the FN HAMR - which is listed as a MG.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 05:29, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
::The thing is SAW is a weapon role, not a weapon type; if you issued the M1911 to squad support gunners it would be a SAW (it would just be a terrible one). There is no mechanical reason to ''not'' call the M27 an assault rifle, just as there's no mechanical reason to not call the QJY-88 a light machine gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:56, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
:::You could argue that the M27 is optimised for the SAW role by supposedly having a heavier weight barrel, but as the weight increase is only something like 40g I think this is actually a myth. I believe the only physical difference between an HK416 D16.5RS and the M27 IAR are the handguard being 11" long rather than 9" which means that the bayonet lug is also a separate piece placed further forward on the barrel rather than the HK 416 which mounts the lug on the gas block, the bolt carrier has a captive firing pin retaining pin, the fire selector is ambidexterous and the bolt handle is ambidextrous (not double sided but can be switch sides at an armourer level). None of these modifications are what I would deem to be SAW modifications, with the possible exception of the longer handguard allowing a separate vertical grip and bipod to be used more easily, so i you were classifying the weapon on its characteristics rather than role I would put it as an AR. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:28, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
:Yeah.... also it looks like it has a combined bayonet lug / gas block and some sort of step in the barrel, so I would say that it is not even a real M27 but a HK416. Now *that* should definitely go to the rifles. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 07:07, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
::Are there any images out yet of it apart from the gear screen image on the COD Wiki? From that image it also looks like it has the shorter 9" handguard used on the standard HK416 rifles. Barrel is throwing me a bit as it looks like it might have the M4 profile barrel that is on the 14.5" rifles, but in terms of length it looks like it is a 16.5" barrel which should be straight. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:20, 27 September 2012 (EDT)

What seems odd to me is how a heavy assault rifle/light machine gun has higher mobility than others in it's class [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] ([[User talk:Gonzaga|talk]]) 19:34, 29 September 2012 (EDT)

I found this odd too, the M27 IAR would be heavier and hence more stable in automatic fire than the other ARs, not lighter/better mobility. The barrel is somewhat confusing, it looks to be shaped after a stepped AR-15 carbine barrel but too long.
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 15:50, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

== FN HAMR ==

Along the same lines as the M27, I think the "FN HAMR" is actually just a regular SCAR that they are mis-naming. The main difference between the regular SCAR and the HAMR is the fact that the lower handguard on the HAMR is deeper to accommodate the gubbins that switches the gun from closed bolt to open bolt when the barrel gets hot. The game gun has the same lower handguard as on a regular scar, with the bottom of the rail being at the same height as the bottom of the front push pin. Also the flash hider is not the one used on the HAMR, but is instead the one from a SCAR-H. If it is the case that this a regular SCAR, do we put it in the AR category because that is what it is? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:56, 1 October 2012 (EDT)
:Yes, and now that you mention it also has the SCAR-like vent holes.I am gonna change it to SCAR-L and the M27 to HK416 too. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 07:57, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

==Pointless weapon stats==
Has anyone noticed how pointless the stats are in the COD series? Seriously these stats are so generic and so open ended to interpretation that I find it hard to compare one gun to the other. In fact I have seen two guns on the roster here alone, one of which has better stats in terms of "blocks" than the other so why would I bother using the other weapon? On top of that they dont seem to match weapon caliber to damage. Ex a MP5 should be the same damage as a Glock 17 but they arent because the Glock is a pistol and the MP5 is a SMG (I know these arent in this game just bare with me). That and why is it that from a distance (straying off topic I know) shotgun pellets seem to disintegrate completely? I love these games but Furry they need better gun designers to look into this--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 18:44, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

The weapon stats have an alarming tendency of being BLATANT LIES. Denkirson runs a xanga page with weapon stats from all the COD games since the first Modern Warfare, and noted how the stat bars in that game were occasionally inaccurate/vague (G36 being more accurate than the M4. The G36 simply has less sight sway, and is not necessarily more accurate) or outright lying (G36 being more powerful than the M4. This is untrue. Both guns have the same 30max-20min damage values.) --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 20:10, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

@HashiriyaR32, not only that, but I also hated how for some reason for example in COD4 how the M9 has less damage than the MP5, while they are both chambered in the same cartridge! I feel that videogames should use the caliber of the weapon to help define stats. For example the damage and range would be the same across all weapon types (because of the cartridge) but should defer in magazine size, recoil, accuracy, and reload speed. Its reasons like this why handguns are so underused in multiplayer--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 15:26, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

:While "damage" can never be perfectly done in games, [[Battlefield 3]]'s weapon damages are all based of calibre. It's still a game and not a simulator, but it's one of the best out there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:31, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

:@Alex T Snow, yeah, forgot about that, honestly havent played BF3 in a while but as memory serves it is more "realistic" with its weapons.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 16:09, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

::Just FYI, an M9 should cause less "damage" than an MP5. An MP5 has a longer barrel meaning that it generates a higher muzzle velocity and hence muzzle energy (which is the simplest analogue to damage). Some stats in these games make no sense, like weapons with the same barrel length and caliber having different damages, but in this particular case they got it broadly correct. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:40, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Just found a clear example of how the weapon stats are pointless. Under the sniper rifles the two in question are the DSR 50 and the XPR 50. It clearly shows that the DSR 50 has better stats in all categories compared to the XPR 50, so the question is if there is a weapon that clearly has better stats then why should I bother using the other weapon (FYI I am a COD veteran and know that sometimes these stats have to be tested out). Anyone have any opinions regarding this example? --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 15:17, 5 November 2012 (EST)
:That one's easy, the DSR-50 is a bolt action whereas the XPR-50 is semi-auto. I would also guess that the XPR-50 might have a large magazine based on how the weapon image looks. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:32, 5 November 2012 (EST)

: @Commando552, thanks for the info, I guess that does answer a little, but don't you think that they should have placed the ammunition capacity? Or at least make the distinctions more apparent? I mean J.C! I literally was using my pen on the screen trying to count each of the different squares.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 16:37, 5 November 2012 (EST)

If you see any references to rates of fire or kill ranges, just be aware that I'm getting them from this image. It's based on the day-1 patch. http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6712/bo2weaponchartv102.png --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 20:32, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:I'm fairly sure those are the multiplayer stats, since the SMR is still fullauto even if you don't choose select fire in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:31, 19 November 2012 (EST)

They are. The full-auto fire mode is the default for the SMR, FAL OSW, JS Type 05, SG556, and XM8 in single-player mode. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 10:09, 19 November 2012 (EST)

==Unknown Assault Rifle==
I was watching the launch trailer for the game and I caught this gun. Not sure what it is, so any help will be hot [[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]]
[[File:Call_Of_Duty_Black_Ops_2_Unknown_Rifle.jpg|none|500px]]

:That is a Saiga 12 shotgun (according to the game). - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 17:32, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

:Looks like an AK-12 to me http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Ak-12.jpg --[[User:Doom-generation|Doom-generation]] ([[User talk:Doom-generation|talk]]) 20:43, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

::And while it is indeed a super tactical, commando grade, hand made for the operators by the dwarves of Moria, it is just a Saiga with aftermarket HK style back sights and rails slapped on like there's no tomorrow. But that's hardly the most worrisome thing by now.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 02:30, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

::: Well, honestly, I think it would be dumber to have an elite operator using a plain weapon than a modified one like that. Especially since in this game you actually get to use side rails (with Laser Sights, though I think that's it), the 4-sides rails system doesn't seem exaggerated like in the past ones. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] ([[User talk:Gonzaga|talk]]) 21:09, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

::::Certainly so, although I am baffled by the decision as to why decided to make it look so 'westernized' (HK sight, rails more typical for aftermarket then modern military use... etc.) if it's a (I assume) firearm of the opposing force. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 08:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)

:::::Well Russian special forces (and police) have been known to put American aftermarket parts (Magpul stocks, EOTechs, stuff like that) on their weapons, but I don't think they'd go extreme with it though. Example: [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/0_848ce_a_11e_10bb_orig-tfb.jpeg M4 style stock] --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] ([[User talk:Ghostdigga|talk]]) 17:51, 5 November 2012 (EST)

== Live action trailer just released ==

So... now there's a live action trailer for Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, and it looks pretty impressive. It's got quite a few celebrities in it as well as a few YouTube personalities, along with some of the modern and futuristic weapons that will be seen in the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wIZp_E2CxQ

: Surprised FPS Russia didn't say 'Have nice day.'-Survivalkid21

==SPOILERS: Full walkthrough leaked==

As usual, Game Anyone has leaked a full walkthrough of the game. You can at least make a note of the weapons for later. Already seen a [[Hawk MM1 grenade launcher]], a full size [[MP5]], and the [[FAL]] is back and has a select fire option. http://www.gameanyone.com/video/505480 [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:36, 6 November 2012 (EST)
:Rifles Fal | Galil | M16A1 | "AK47" (AKM?)

:SMGs MP5A3 | AK74U | Uzi

:Shotties Olympia over and under | SPAS 12

:LMGs RPD | M60 | Minigun (same one as Vorkuta)

:Snipers M82A1 | SVD Dragunov

:Pistols 1911 | Makarov PM | Browning HP

:Launchers RPG7 | Stinger | MM1

I believe there is no Type 97 and only the fictional Type 25 in the game.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 18:11, 7 November 2012 (EST)
** There's two different kinds of miniguns: there's the handheld minigun from the first Black Ops, and a new "Death Machine" that looks to be a futuristic one. The LSAT machine gun also has a digital ammo counter like the ''Aliens'' pulse rifle. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:36, 7 November 2012 (EST)

==No optics==

It's kinda straight that in the future, none of the characters around you carry their guns with any sort of attachments on their weapons. No optics, grips or anything. The flashback scenes in the 80s make sense because electronics were not big at the time. It was more strange still for us to be carrying a gun with a red dot sight [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:18, 13 November 2012 (EST)
:It's especially odd, considering all the weight and bulk of RIS, to put nothing on it at all. Hmm. Well this is CoD, after all. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 13:00, 14 November 2012 (EST)
Not always true. A lot of the other series have optics on certain of your buddies. Other points where we have the odd no optics are pick up weapons off some enemies. It's kinda weird that some of the mercs and the Chinese who uses more advanced weapons have no optics on their guns. When you play a different SEAL in the Strike missions, some times you start off with a gun that has no optic on it. This is the future, optics are the way of the future, especially for Spec Ops guys [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:30, 14 November 2012 (EST)

==Realism==

[[File:Blop2-Stinger-3.jpg|200px|thumb|left]]I know this is just a game that should be played for fun but... Come on, here we can see that the player just destroyed a tank with a FIM92 Stinger while riding a horse and he has 19 more Stingers on him. I'd like to see him with 19 launchers on his back. I think it beats any other nonsense in a game that has real firearms--[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 15:29, 15 November 2012 (EST)
:Of all the things that is kinda weird and stupid in this game, you pointed this out? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:25, 15 November 2012 (EST)

Actually, it's very realistic. Didn't you know that every real-life Black Ops operator has a small army of invisible midgets that carry all their extra ammo? --[[User:CommanderLukas|Commander Lukas]] ([[User talk:CommanderLukas|talk]]) 17:14, 15 November 2012 (EST)

Eh, certain kit configurations in MGS4 can result in Snake carrying three or more tons of rocket launchers. Naw, the one that really annoyed me was "fast mag" but "extended clip." Why did they have to get it right ''and'' wrong in the same game? The invisible long barrels and foregrips and unchanged high-cap magazines kinda irritated me, too. Still, nice to see they're finally trying to put the fire selectors in the right positions and have magazines with actual ammo in them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:14, 16 November 2012 (EST)

:Thinking about it, the most likely answer (especially in light of the awesomely silly commie land battleship at the end) is that it was originally intended as a future level with a futuristic multi-mode rocket launcher, but either they thought the horse was silly in the future or there weren't enough past levels, so it ended up being a magic dual-mode Stinger. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:38, 17 November 2012 (EST)

==AN94 missing magazines==

At the beginning of Achilles' Veil, when you walk slowly with Menendez, if you look around at all the AN94s, most of them don't have magazines attached. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:51, 15 November 2012 (EST)
:They may be acting in a ceremonial capacity, and are carrying their weapons unloaded. Only Menendez (and possibly the few soldiers outside with him) expected the American assault, and would have been prepared to fire on the VTOLs and Yemeni troops. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 03:17, 16 November 2012 (EST)
::Naw, I've got shots of them actually aiming the things at the VTOL when it arrives, have to check again to see if any of the empty ones fire but I think they do. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:32, 16 November 2012 (EST)
::Yeah, I thought for a second about the ceremonial angle, but when Menendez shoots down a VTOL, most of the soldiers around him were missing mags in their rifles [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:23, 16 November 2012 (EST)
::: Considering the scale of the apparent error, then, it may be intentional. It would be hard for something like models with missing magazines to make it past testing. I'm willing to bet ceremonial, since I've seen many times where soldiers acting as ceremonial guards will carry their rifles unloaded and with no magazine. The function that's occurring would make sense for this action. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 03:26, 17 November 2012 (EST)
::::Yeah, but again, they ''aim'' rifles with no magazines at things, though I'm going back through now to get more screencaps and check if they actually fire them without magazines. It might just be a spawning bug, and a visual error a good 70% of users won't even notice is going to get flagged as "low priority" even in the likely case that the QA team spotted it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:39, 17 November 2012 (EST)
:::::Yeah, I noticed this during my playthrough. I was using an AN-94 on this level, and in first person my gun had no magazine. It reappeared during my reload, and disappeared afterwards. I was going to grab a screenshot and uypload it, but it appears I've been beaten to it :P [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 09:05, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== Terminology note ==

"The first game" = World at War, not Black Ops.

"The previous game" should not be used, since it's confusing as to whether that's MW3 or Black Ops. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:48, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:By that standard, "the first game" would mean Call of Duty 1, so I would say just use the full name of the game in question. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] ([[User talk:Animalmenace|talk]])

== STORM PSR Sniper Rifle ==

is it just me or did the makers of call of duty: black ops II put in the em-1 railgun from the movie eraser?
the scope may not see in MRI mode, but it can see in thermal or infrared or whatever they call it in the game, but i enjoyed it immensely. i love the game.
:As I recall this actually ''was'' something Metal Storm Inc were suggesting their technology could do back when they were touting their million RPM rig to everyone who would listen; a superfast burst would potential result in multiple projectiles hitting the same position for very high penetration. Trouble was the superfast Metal Storm guns have issues with minor things like ''not exploding'' because gun barrels really don't like it when you fire a round while the previous one is still inside the barrel. They came up with some complicated venting system to solve that, but realised it basically removed all the advantages Metal Storm was supposed to have (in that it was more complex and meant the weapon had more moving parts than a normal gun) and so went over to stacked-round mortars, GLs and that underbarrel shotgun they have. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:54, 20 November 2012 (EST)

==New Screenshots==

I just added a few screenshots for some of the missing weapons (MP5A3, Beretta M682, SPAS-12, M1216, Type 25, M8A1, SIG 556) let me know if there's anything wrong with them and I'll take better ones. I had shots for the HAMR( SCAR-L) and the SCAR-H but they didn't turn out well so I didn't upload them. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 10:33, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:It's ok, I've got about three thousand screenshots and pretty much everything covered, and I think I'm running higher resolution and settings. If you want something to do, though, you could try making the ''World at War'' page...Well, "less awful" would be a start, even. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 12:55, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::I have recently acquired a physical copy of ''World at War'' so I'll see what I can do about in game screenshots. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 09:04, 25 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, I was running everything on Max but I don't think FRAPS likes Black Ops 2 very much because everything turned out low-res. And I don't own World at War, so I can't really contribute to it's page :P [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 13:32, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::You shouldn't really need FRAPs, if you're running it through Steam it has its own screenshot key and even if you're not there should be a "take screenshot" command in the control settings. Though as said, I've got this one covered so we don't really need anyone else getting caps for it anyway. Thanks for the effort, though. :) [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:37, 20 November 2012 (EST)
::::I use FRAPS because I can save the images as .PNGs because I take a lot of game screenshots for my blog, and as far as I know Steam only does .JPGs. But Yeah, I'll keep an eye out next time I'm grabbing screenshots so I don't step on any toes. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 11:04, 22 November 2012 (EST)

== Fun with old models ==

So, the Kurzer 8 cm Granatwerfer 42 model is seven years old. For those wondering if this is some kind of record, it's got a long way to go; I believe the record for officially recycled art assets is ''Castlevania'', which got a Medusa Head sprite in ''Rondo of Blood'' in 1993 and recycled it until ''Order of Ecclesia'' in 2008. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:13, 22 November 2012 (EST)

== Could someone explain this if possible? ==

I don't have the game, so forgive me if i am missing something obvious, but i have noticed several confusing things in the various gameplay videos.

First of all, why does some guns not eject casings? I know guns can eject downwards but no casings are left on the floor. This seems to apply to all Chinese weapons, the MTAR-21, SMR and PDW-57. I know it could be a mistake on the developer's part but it seems so obvious, am i missing anything?

Secondly, regarding the PDW-57, the above could potentially make sense as the casings are left in the magazine even when it has been fired empty. But it seems impractical, and why are they all in the same place no matter how many shots have been fired? Do they move in a circle around the inside of the magazine?

Thirdly, how does Fast Mag work on Shotguns with tube magazines?

Also, can 1980's weapons, when used in the future levels after completing the game, use futuristic attachments?

Finally, why does some videos decipt the KSG reloading one shell at a time and others two shells at a time?

Thanks in advance. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 18:54, 24 November 2012 (EST)

Fast mag for the tube-magged shotguns makes it so that you reload two shells at a time. 1980s weapons cannot use futuristic attachments even in the 2025 missions. They have their own set of attachments.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 19:01, 24 November 2012 (EST)

:The bullpup weapons have the ejection port where it generally isn't even on-screen when the weapon is shouldered, so there's no way you'd see ejected brass. PDW-57 is probably supposed to eject down like the P90. They probably just didn't bother with a brass effect you'd hardly ever see, and it's not like the series is exactly big on getting brass right (see also every revolver reload ever).

:PDW-57 just isn't animated, game P90s almost never are and in general a transparent magazine will just show a fixed number of rounds inside it. While you can cycle rounds back into a magazine after firing (aircraft cannons sometimes do it) it would be impractical in a weapon that wasn't belt fed because you'd have to have the weapon basically eject spent casings back into its own magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:22, 25 November 2012 (EST)

::It is very rare in games to see a P90 cartridge cycle. The one that I am known to is the Rainbow Six Vegas series. More games should have this feature and take away the ammo counter on screen, use visual cues. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 17:52, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:::MGS4 does it, too. But the ammo counter is mainly there because your character is supposed to be a soldier, and so he'd have some sense of the weight of his weapon and be more focused on how many rounds he's fired than the player. It's like, say, a minimap is supposed to substitute for your character's knowledge of the area they're in; it's much easier to have the character pass their knowledge to the player rather than expecting the player to BE the character. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:06, 27 November 2012 (EST)

Thanks for the answers, both of you. Very much appreciated. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 15:02, 25 November 2012 (EST)

== Overall thoughts on the game... ==

So I managed to pick up a copy of the game, and I played it several times through, and well... it was pretty impressive to say in the least.

The strong points of the game are pretty much as follows: the pre-mission weapon customization, being able to drive/command vehicles, the developers making an attempt at providing more details on the weapons, players getting the opportunity to use every weapon on any mission (even if it doesn't fit the time period), a pretty damn good musical soundtrack, giving the protagonists and antagonists better personalities and character depth rather than just presenting them as wooden beings who follow orders or one-track objectives, and finally, presenting a story that can end in a different number of ways depending on your choices, was understandable for the most part, and how such a story could possibly one day happen in real life (Cause let's be honest here folks, there are people out there in the world like Raul Menendez who wish to create chaos and anarchy (for whatever purpose suits them), and yet they claim to 'fight for the oppressed', and are viewed and praised as 'heroes', 'revolutionaries' and 'saints' by the people that are often called 'the 99%' in today's fast-changing society of ours... [interesting Occupy Movement reference there, Treyarch]).

Call of Duty: Black Ops II definitely qualifies to be on the list of "Top X best games of 2012", and perhaps the better Call of Duty game that not only ranks up there along with Call of Duty (2003) and Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (at least I think so, feel free to disagree), but also the better Call of Duty game that Activision has made in the past 5 years. I hope that the next batch of Call of Duty games are just as good as this one was. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] ([[User talk:ThatoneguyJosh|talk]]) 04:45, 28 November 2012 (EST)

Aside from Menendez's back story and his organization, the story was pretty good. I need the game to explain what the villain is apart of and what they represent [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:04, 28 November 2012 (EST)

== Why is the SCAR-H model listed as being too thin? ==

I don't find the in-game model to be thinner than it really should. What are we going by? The top parts of both the SCAR-H and the SCAR-L have the same width due to both of them having the same Picatinny rail on top. [[User:RadicalDisconnect|RadicalDisconnect]] ([[User talk:RadicalDisconnect|talk]]) 02:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)

I looked at it too. I've handled a SCAR-17S and it isn't "bulky" really [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:57, 1 December 2012 (EST)

I suggest removing that line, as I don't find the rifle to be too thin at all. I think the illusion came from the fact that the Picatinny rails have more slots in them than in previous games. [[User:RadicalDisconnect|RadicalDisconnect]] ([[User talk:RadicalDisconnect|talk]]) 08:11, 12 December 2012 (EST)

== Reloadings are incorrectly described .... ==

Both the USAF M16 and MP5A3 sections states the magazines are empty/solid when reloading, while after lenthy examination, i have found all weapons to feature bullets in their inserted magazines. It also seems that the previous magazine visibly features bullets when reloading from non-empty and no bullets when reloading from empty. This includes the M16 and MP5. It does however seem like this was overlooked on Fast Mags. Can whoever took the MP5 images specify if he was using Fast Mag in the image thet claims it is solid?

Otherwise this should be pointed out somewhere on the page instead. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 20:18, 6 December 2012 (EST)

:Fast mag on the M16 but I don't think so on the MP5 (edit: checked, it's a fast mag there too), I'll have to go in and check again next time I'm off work (that'll be sunday). Caption for the M16 does specify that the magazines in the screenshot are empty, it doesn't say they always are. Incidentally if you're wondering why there's a lot of shots from "Old Wounds," it's the one where they give you guns the fastest. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:59, 7 December 2012 (EST)

While it doesn't say it is always empty, it does give that impression. I thought so until i checked myself. Maybe just pointing out somewhere that Fast Mag lacks detail could perhaps be useful. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 07:55, 7 December 2012 (EST)

:I'll get some extra shots on sunday for it. It's pretty hard with the MP5 because the mag's not actually on screen for very long (same with Far Cry 3 and finding SPAS reloads where there's a cartridge on-screen, it seems) but I have a stupid mouse with one button set to screenshot so I will stupid at the game until it loses. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:43, 7 December 2012 (EST)

== Learned some things ==
Drift0r's BO2 vids have taught me something that we could probably add to the main article.
I mentioned, correctly, that Select Fire alters handling characteristics, and full-auto is usually slower than burst (we already know of one case that isn't true). What I just found out is that a select-fire Vector has identical burst and full-auto ROFs, and its burst mode is a 2-round burst, like the AN-94, and unlike all the other SF-enabled burst modes of other full-auto weapons. Also, I managed to find a more recent version of the BO2 weapon chart, and the mentioning of the SIG 556's damage profile being altered in full-auto mode (via SF) is no longer true. It now has identical max-min damages (40-24) in both burst and full-auto. What is still true is that it still suffers a reduction in its 3 and 4 hit kill ranges.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 23:19, 9 December 2012 (EST)

== Protection level ==

This page should not be infinitely protected from editing, it can still be improved. The [[Modern Warfare 3]] page is also still protected. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2012 (EST)
:You can suggest changes here, both pages are likely to attract stupidity. This page will be finished shortly, I just need to find time to sift through the rest of my screencaps. I know about the 92SB in MW3, I'm going to add it when I get around to getting a screencap, should all be done over the weekend. That aside MW3 is complete and 99% of edits to it will be either adding worthless or incorrect information. Please don't dictate what our protection policy should be, it ''is'' policy to fully protect high-traffic pages. ''Rambo III'' has been sysop protected for the last three and a half years. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:44, 21 December 2012 (EST)
::Okay, the M16A4 should be added, as it is seen during a cutscene in which Woods strangles a Viet Cong soldier with the rifle, yet it is not obtainable during gameplay. The SMR also turned out to be a true Saritch 308 (or at least with a slightly modified appearance like the XM8, but not just a fictional weapon based on it), due to this evidence given in the Call of Duty Wiki: - "In Zombies, Marlton comments on how the SMR uses .308 rounds, just like the Saritch 308 - On ELiTE, [...] the default file name was 'Saritch' - SMR possibly stands for 'Saritch Modular Rifle' or 'Saritch Marksman Rifle'". Also, the KAP-40 is described in the IMFDB page as "a fully automatic handgun based on the TDI Kard", yet I don't find any major difference between them (unless the full-auto fire mode is incorrect); its mechanism and caliber (.45 ACP) are also the same as the real TDI Kard, so I believe that it is indeed a TDI Kard. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 03:35, 22 December 2012 (EST)
::::Would the "40" in "KAP-40" not imply somewhat that the pistol is chambered in a .40-calibre round, such as .40 S&W? I know it's a trivial thing, but that's the first thing that came to my mind upon hearing the name. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] ([[User talk:Dirty Harold|talk]]) 07:31, 22 December 2012 (EST)
:::::No, because the left hand side of the KAP-40 says ".45 ACP" --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 10:29, 22 December 2012 (EST)
::::::Ah, right--upon examining the gun more closely, I can see where it says that. Seems as though "KAP-45" would have been a more appropriate name given the circumstances. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] ([[User talk:Dirty Harold|talk]]) 11:04, 22 December 2012 (EST)
:::I'll check for the M16 tomorrow, the SMR isn't really all that similar to the Saritch (it's about the same shape, but it looks like it's been built out of features of other guns like the B23R; it's about as close as the Type 25 is to any of the QB rifles) and the KAP is obviously based on the Kard but has, among other things, completely different join lines, a differently shaped grip, a TDI Vector fire selector (since the real one has no full-auto functionality) and a stupidly out-of-reach Vector bolt release. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:47, 22 December 2012 (EST)
::::That's right, the SMR seems to contain parts of the Vulkan M2T Ukrainian experimental assault rifle. It should also be mentioned that the 3-round burst and fully-automatic fire are incorrect for the SG 556, since the real one only comes in semi-auto. For the M16A4, it is seen in Woods' flashback in the mission "Pyrrhic Victory". And an extra note: the Barrett M107 section should contain a sentence like "While the M82A1 would fit in the game's setting (having been developed in 1982), the M107 is highly anachronistic, since it ..." (because it is referred to as Barrett M82A1 in-game) --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:55, 22 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I think the actual error there is that Barrett have started marketing the M107 as the M82A1 (per our own page on the Barrett rifles), so the problem is they put the wrong M82A1 in the game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:33, 23 December 2012 (EST)

== Basis of in-game Saiga? ==

Guys, I think I may have found the the Saiga Treyarch based in the in-game model off of:
[http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=25&category_id=2&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=3 Link to page on Red Jacket website]
(I don't know how to "safely" place a link onto IMFDB from an iPad, which is currently my only form of Internet access, so it would be much appreciated if someone could tell me how so I could up date it later). If anyone asks why I was on the website of the atrocious Red Jacket Firearms, I was Googling "AK Shotguns" to see if there were anymore I didn't know about, and their website came up. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 03:00, 25 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-12-25T08:00:01Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Basis of in-game Saiga? */

==Live Action Trailers==
==="Surprise" Trailer"===

====Taurus Judge====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComTaurusJudge.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Taurus Judge stuffed in a "players" vest. This appears to be standing in for the [[Taurus Raging Judge]] as the Judge dose not appear in game.]]

====Remington 870====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComRemington870.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"''Zombies? Groovy''". A "player" is about to take on a zombie horde with a Remington 870 equipped with a M4 style stock and a pump mounted tac light. Judging by this set up the regular Remington 870 seen here in standing in for the MCS version seen in game.]]

====AK74M====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComAK74M.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another "player" in the background with an AK74M due to the indent on the stock. This appears to be standing in for the AN-94 seen ingame.]]

====AKU-94====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComAKU94.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AKU-94 seen in the hands of the "player" on the left. This appears to be standing for the fictional "Type 25" seen ingame. Also their are no references to AKUs in American film or TV armories so either this is a very good mockup from a [[Norinco Type 86S]] or this is a prop.]]

====M14====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComMGLMK1&M134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Look in the bottom left corner; see that? Its the chalk outline for the M14 in zombies mode.]]

====M14 Rogue Chassis System====

[[File:M14 Rogue Chassis System.JPG|thumb|none|450px|M14 Rogue Chassis System - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:CODBO2LiveActComUnknownSniperRifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"''Hey buddy.''"]]
[[File:CODBO2LiveActComUnknownSniperRifleFront.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The front end of the M14.]]
[[File:CODBO2LiveActComUnknownSniperRifleScope.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The scope.]]

====XM8 (Prop)====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComLikelyXM8Prop.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An XM8 with the fictional "MMS" optic. Due to obvious reason this is definitely a prop.]]

====Milkor MGL Mk 1====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComMGLMK1&M134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Oh you're screwed.]]

====GE M134====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComMGLMK1&M134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CGI rendered M134s on CLAW AI vehicles.]]

====Semtex====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComSemtex.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Semtex ready to blow while the guy in the back gives us an epic "oh crap" face.]]

=== LG Cinema Trailer===

====AK Type Rifle====

[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComAKRifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An AK type rifle in the background. Its possible its the AK74M listed above.]]

:For some reason, it gives me Vz. 58 vibes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:04, 23 November 2012 (EST)

====M16 Type Rifle====

[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComXM8PropCloseUp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle on the left bares resemblance to an M16 style rifle.]]

====XM8 (Dressed up G36K)====
The fictional "M8A1" variant of the [[Heckler & Koch XM8|H&K XM8 rifle]] appears in the trailer being wielded by a player. Based on close examination, the rifle can be seen ejecting spent casings and appears to have a hinge where the stock connects to the receiver, suggesting that, unlike the one seen in the ''Surprise'' trailer, it could possibly be a live-firing [[Heckler & Koch G36K]] dressed up as an XM8 rather than a prop as previously believed.
[[Image:Xm8 rightmed.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Older version of Heckler & Koch XM8 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:HKG36KR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36KV with rail top carry handle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComGM134CLAW&XM8Prop.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player firing his G36K. The muzzle flash looks real enough to not be CG.]]
[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComXM8PropCloseUp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close up of the dressed up G36K.]]

====GE M134====

[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComGM134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An M134 mounted on the CLAW.]]
[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComGM134CLAW&XM8Prop.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closeup.]]

== Button mashing ==
Anyone else hate the useless button mashing sequences, I have died about 30 times under that horse by now, just waiting for that idiot to figure out a human can't life a horse hehe. Why do they put them in shooters anyway? --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 11:52, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Urmmm... And how's that relevant to this page? You're just raging at the game xD --[[User:Alisha161fishy|Alisha161Fishy]] ([[User talk:Alisha161fishy|talk]]) 17:00, 14 November 2012 (EST)

You're not supposed to mash for that particular section. You need to hold the triggers/mouse buttons to successfully clear that segment. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 18:05, 15 November 2012 (EST)

== The Newest Joke? ==
Why put up a IMFDB page of this game when it looks clearly like a waste of money - Anonymous User

Because I am loking forward to this game, and cheevo hunting. Besides I am the only biotic organism that plays CoD for the SP and not the multi (well, except for split-screening with my girlfriend). Anyways, I like Call of Duty, and I think this will be cool, and I cannot wait to see what new weapons they will have. - [[User:1morey]] May 6, 2012 8:58 AM (EST)

Because we hate you, that's why. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:44, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

:And ''he sucks'' and we hate him. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:30, 9 June 2012 (CDT)

Sorry [[User:1morey|1morey]], but you are not the only "biotic organism" who buy CoD only for the SP campaign XD [[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]

I too like to play CoD single player campaigns. I dabbled a little in MP here and there, but don't really understand what all the fuss is about. If only the developers put in as much time and effort into the SP nowadays, like they used too :( --[[User:Ultimagameboy|Ultimagameboy]] 19:12, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

If IW/Treyarch put as much effort into SP as they do MP these days, we ''might'' actually get an SP game as epic, or better than, CoD4's. Even today with my negative opinion of the CoD franchise, I ''still'' consider CoD4 to be one of the most epic games I've ever played. This is why I like Battlefield and MoH over CoD, because the devs actually put some effort into SP to make it believable and entertaining instead of just putting millions of random enemies with random guns in front of you in a random location and calling it a story. Maybe the plots of those games weren't as dramatic as Russian paras suddenly falling on suburban USA (if I want to see that, I'll put my ''[[Red Dawn (1984)|Red Dawn]]'' Blu-Ray in), but at least they were believable as events that could ''actually'' happen in the real world, especially so with them taking place in more or less the present day. While that may not matter to others, it ''does'' to me and if I can't accept something happening in reality, I can't get engrossed in it in the game. I call it the "Barney Principle". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:02, 23 November 2012 (EST)

== XM8? ==
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg

Weapon in the pic looks like a modified XM8 [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks like the hybrid ACR from RE6 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:31, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks to just be like a space gun... It "resembles" a XM8 and an ACR, but looks like the SCAR from Crysis. It's just a future weapon. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:40, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

To be more specific,it appears to be the Malaysian variant of the XM8,the Malaysian variant has no built in scope like on the ones designed for the U.S Army,but a rail instead.however it has extra features of weapons such as the ACR, which Treyarch probably to give their own artistic touch to make it look unique and futuristic.[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

In the description, someone wrote that it is based on the M41A1 pulse rifle from Aliens. How? Why? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:52, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

No response to why somebody say the rifle was based on the Pulse Rifle from Aliens? Also is it me or does the firepower of this gun seem a bit weak? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:34, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Don't know about it being based on the M41A (come on, it's ''clearly'' based on the minigun in ''Predator'' [/joke]), but I think given a beefier stock, Treyarch's incarnation would actually look ''good''. Its lines do certainly look more pleasing to me than the current version, and I'm probably one of the biggest XM8 critics on this site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:12, 23 November 2012 (EST)

I was just now watching the Cinema commercial on YouTube (hey, if there's one thing IW and Treyarch can do right, it's advertise their games) and caught this.

[[File:XM8 Blops 2.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]

This "prop" is ejecting a spent casing, which looks legit enough, and the muzzle flash doesn't look like CGI, either (CGI muzzle flashes tend to be quite distinguishable from the real thing, from my TV viewing experience). In addition, you can very faintly make out what looks like a hinge where the stock and receiver connect. Could it be a dressed up G36 rather than a prop? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:59, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:Yeah, I think that bulky carry handle is there to cover up a real G36 carry handle underneath, and the magwell looks right for a G36 and wrong for an XM8. Though, um...Unless the bottom of the trigger guard is missing, how can he pull the trigger with his finger there? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:07, 26 November 2012 (EST)

::Another G36 indicator is that the stock is side folding. On the XM8 it is only collapsible. A more accurate XM8 mock up based on a G36 can be seen in [[XXX:_State_of_the_Union#.28Fake.29_Heckler_.26_Koch_XM8|XXX: State of the Union]]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:35, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:::Interestingly the in-game weapon also has a G36-style magwell. Might have used the dressed-up prop as a reference, even. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:07, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:::Strike what I typed previously in this space, I misread Commando's comment and thought he was citing a ''lack'' of a folding stock on the M8A1 mock up. My bad. Since there seems to be a consensus, I'm going to change the XM8 prop entry for the Cinema trailer to state that it's a G36 (probably a K, judging by the barrel length and exposed gas block) dressed up as an XM8. The one used in the ''Surprise'' trailer looks more like the in-game model, so I'm inclined to say that one ''is'' a prop. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:23, 26 November 2012 (EST)

== Future Warfare ==
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-074340.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070746.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-065949.jpg

The game is set in near future, rumours say it's in 2027. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

That's what we've been needing. More future crap. ~ACE

Call Of Recon: Ghost Ops --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Well, I've given up on the series now that being on top of five grenades when they go off doesn't kill people.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

:Givern how CoD does with real weapons, watching them making up weapons should be eight kinds of hilarious. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:10, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

its been confirmed to be set in the year 2025,i would imagine a mixture of real weapons,and Treyarch-created mashups will be included[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

As long as we get (have) to shoot hundreds of rounds full auto at each quadrupedal robot it will apparently be awesome. I hope bullets have no effect on enemies until they suddenly die also. ~ACE

:I don't know, as long as the robots acknowledge being hit, a linebreaker enemy that stops you getting bogged down in one place can be good. ''Resistance: Fall of Man'' had enemies which would use their superior hitpoints (3+ headshots on normal for grunts with the basic rifles) to advance under fire while firing from the hip, which meant they ''didn't'' have to spam grenades at you constantly to stop you staying in one place (also they had Steelheads with guns that shot through walls to help them with that). It actually made the firefights rather more interesting than the headshot = dead standard. Though they at least reacted to being shot (flinched but kept running), it wasn't like ''STALKER'' where enemies were either alive or dead and wouldn't acknowledge any state in between (which in ''Clear Sky'' where they jacked up Bloodsucker HP ridiculously meant you weren't actually sure you were even hurting them).

:In general enemy variety is a huge weakness for modern shooters, since almost everything is 'man with gun.' If they do this ''right'' it could actually have far more varied firefights. Or they'll just have it invincible until you find the glowing rocket launcher Private Dies In An Inconvenient Place dropped, which seems more likely all things considered. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

::Dual wielding Javelins. ~ACE

== Come On ==

There is NOTHING warranting a page for this yet. All of you fanboys need to drop your cocks and have a little patience. Would any IMFDB mods put up with this for any other page or project with the same amount of leaked content, being 1, maybe 2 usable pictures? No way; this whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If there's nothing concrete worth putting on the main page, stick to the Treyarch forums. It's insane how quickly the COD community jumped onto it on IMFDB. It's fucking preposterous to discuss ONE PICTURE for a WHOLE GAME THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED YET. Please, fanboys, calm down, and don't get ahead of yourselves. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 16:38, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Finally someone who agrees with me. --[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I can't disagree [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:18, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

The game has been officially announced, there are several pictures on CallofDuty.com --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:47, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Plus, a trailer is coming out today [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:29, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Trailer released, and I can already see inclusions in the form of the M249. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 19:21, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Weapon Spots ==

Weapon spots from the trailer that I found in the new trailer: at 0:30 there is a M134 Minigun (future-ized) mounted on a four legged combat drone, 0:43 there is a tank drone that appears to have a Metal Storm weapon mounted on its left (our right), 1:09 there is a future pistol (seems unrelated to any real world firearm), 1:11 there is a future-ized XM8, 1:18 there is an M16 (which model can't tell though length suggest it is a full length barrel and has 20 round magazine), 1:27 there what appears to be an M249 SAW (or M240), 1:31 there is a soldier with a balaclava firing a bullpup short barreled weapon that bears resemblance to the QBZ-95, at 1:31 or 1:32 (very easy to miss) there is a soldier being blown away holding an AK variant and by the looks of the handguard and flash hider it is an AN-94, at 1:34 in horseback solders are armed with WWII bolt action rifles, at 1:36 the technical is armed with a Dshk hmg, 1:44 hard to make out but rider on the right has an AK pattern weapon, likely an AK-47 since it looks like the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, 1:48 unknown shotgun. That's all I found for now. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 21:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:I have an intuition that the M16 might (and I have empathize this, ''might'') be an A1 variant or a faux XM16 judging solely from silhouette of the upper receiver. The SAW apparently has an Mk 48 Mod 1 styled heat shield and handguard but that doesn't really mean anything, considering how the franchise loves to mix and match different variants. Weapon at 1:32, on the other hand, is ''definitely'' an AN-94. At least in aesthetic terms.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:03, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:: Isn't it "Kriss USA" instead of "TDI" now?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 08:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Possibly, but KRISS ALLCAPS TACTICOOL ARMS is a stupid title and they were TDI first. They only changed it because they've belatedly discovered the mil-spec subgun market is a ghost town if you're not an MP5 and they're only ever going to sell Vectors to mall ninjas. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

==Designated Arguing/Complaining Area==
Before this discussion page turns to chaos like all the other CoD talk pages, let's open up a designated complaint zone. I know many people want to offer their negative opinions about the game, so if you don't have any real discussion topics please post in subheadings here. Hopefully this will allow people who want to actually discuss the game rather than arguing or whining to avoid these comments and have an actual discussion.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

===What is this going to be like===
I have looked at the trailer several times. This is how I think the games success is going to be. A: It will be a huge hit and sell millions of copies like all other COD games or B: It is going to be a complete and total disaster and there will never be another COD game made again in our lifetimes. I find from what I learned from the plot line details that has been released that it is going to feature what the first Black Ops did, except that the flashbacks will be set in the 1980's and the present 2025. I am wondering how Treyarch is going to do that. This will be a very curious COD game that I will be wondering about UNTIL it comes out.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 21:58, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

===Wow...===
I'll start off by saying the obvious- this game looks stupid. I mean, why jump from the 60's to the 2020's? I could see the futuristic idea that they were trying for, but this looks like a Ghost Recon rip-off. I have just lost what little respect I had for Treyarch. As more details become availiable, I might change my mind, but first impressions are not good. As with any game, if it is fun I will play it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

I've lost respect for the Call of Duty franchise after Infinity Ward broke up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

After at least one failed Soviet aggression in the late 60s, failed invasion of the Eastcoast US, ''failed'' (third time's the charm, right?) invasion of continental Europe within the last three games alone, you'd think the US at least would just get used to getting attacked on a major scale by this point.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:09, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:Well they have, it's pretty clear from MW2 that Russia tries to nuke the US so often in this universe that they didn't even bother with a counter-launch since that would just encourage them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:11, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I can't believe how generic they managed to make their new take on the series. Evil robots, mechs on four legs and choppers with unnecesserly many features. It's basically the same as every futuristic game. On top of it the game looks awful, name doesn't make sense, it looks more over-the-top than MW3. Could Treyarch have mistaken May 1 for April 1? This either is a joke, or will become one.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 05:46, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

What the hell were Treyarch thinking? I was seriously hoping too see what happened to Hudson, Weaver and Mason in Operation Charybdis and maybe if we would get to see how Price started his career. It is often better to go back to basics than too go forward complications. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
:What made you so sure that Price was going to be in this game?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:45, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:Modern Warfare is set in a different continuity, and they even wanted to spin it off into an entirely separate franchise. The Call of Duty label was stuck on by Activision as a way of marketing it. Price won't be appearing because he doesn't exist. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:From what I've read on CoD wiki and heard, 1/3 of the game will take place in the 80s and the rest in 2025--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 09:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

: @ The Wierd It - the 'intel' at the ending of the final story mission of Black Ops suggest that Mason is being hunted by an SAS team in South Africa lead by a young operative called 'Jonathan' which many people have taken to mean a very young Captain Price [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::I think it's very unlikely that they'll have any crossovers between the WaW/BO and MW universes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:47, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
::I know that. I'm wondering where the leap in logic came that took people from one of the more common first names in the English language to "this is obviously meant to be Price". [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:36, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well, it's positively rational compared to the kind of logical gymnastics that some rumour threads get. "I performed a series of random mathematical actions on this Valve press release and made the number 3! Episode 3 confirmed!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:59, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
The first thing I thought when I saw the trailer was that this game was CoD attempting to piggyback on the whole idea of Metal Gear Solid 4. Then I saw the horse sequences and realized I was actually watching an Uncharted 3 trailer. --[[User:K|K]] 19:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I honestly like the way it's going now. I liked Black Ops better than Modern Warfare because it went to a setting not commonly covered (especially in big-budget titles) and had some more interesting segments than just running through an urban environment shooting dozens of AK-toting terrorists or Russians. I'm interested in seeing how Black Ops II progresses now that they're able to create their own technology (no worries of anachronisms or errors). It's a refreshing change of pace from generic World War II and modern day "realistic" shooters. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

@ The Wierd It - Ok mate, fair enough I might have jumped the gun. But on what we know from the intel in Black Ops and the character of Price in the MW franchise, ("promising SAS solider named Jonathan" also referred to as Price in the french Black Ops) - basing it on that knowledge, see why I jumped the gun? However, they brought Woods back for this one, when we were all sure he was dead, what's too say a very young Price won't be featuring in this game? [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

:I still love COD4, great game, but now I refuse to play anything after it. I did play through MW3's story to see the ending, and the MW series' ''story'' is pretty good, but the 2 and 3's gameplay is soooooo bad. In every single mission except one, you start with a reflex sight on your gun in MW3. The other mission you have a pistol. I'm gonna follow this page just to see how bad they can make it. I find it really funny how Halo and Mass Effect have guns (and tech) that are more realistic than MW2/BO/MW3/BO2. Hell, not just more realistic, Halo and ME's weapons ''actually make sense''. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:23, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

It looks like the US got some help from the Combine with those 4 propeller gunships they have. Maybe we might see an AR1 or a Strider? :D [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:12, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

===My two cents on the matter===
Ok... well, first off, I'll admit that I am a fan of CoD. But from the first glance of this trailer, I think that Activision needs it's old management back, and fire the current management along with Robert Kotick.

Seriously Robert? This is what Black Ops II is going to be? A pseudo-futuristic first person shooter with player-driven choices thrown into the mix?

I was expecting that the next Call of Duty was going to be the inevitable Black Ops II (and if not that, then maybe something different for a change like making the game about a war that many people have forgotten about, like World War I or the Korean War, cause World War II and Vietnam get WAY too much attention). but I was expecting it to dive into details about Black Ops operations in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s when the United States got involved in conflicts during those years AFTER the Vietnam war (a.k.a., Grenada, Panama, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Gulf War I, Bosnian conflicts, etc.). But really, THIS is the best idea that your workers came up with? Some cyberwar between China and the United States?

Ok, from what I've read, there will be some throwbacks to the 1980s in this game, but adding in player-driven choices which affect the outcome of the game is a bad idea. I play Call of Duty for mindless entertainment and for shooting things, not to play over and over for making different moral decisions every time to get all the endings of the game! If I wanted a first person shooter with that theme, I'd go play Fallout 3. (Speaking of which, do you think we're really that stupid to notice that you guys stole "The Vault" name?)
: A video game uses the word "Vault" to refer to a location. Must have been stolen from Fallout, since they invented....the English language? [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

As for the weapons... you guys do realize that MANY of these weapons are either still on the drawing board, in the prototype stages, canceled (*cough* XM8 *cough*), or being tested in LIMITED numbers, and that we might not be seeing ANY of them in any future war by the year 2025... right?

it isn't even an xm8, i don't know how it could be a wrong choice for a gun if the gun itself isn't actually a real concept of any kind, its just a futuristic-looking gun designed by treyarch, and what would firing bobby kotick actually do it wouldn't change any of the games because he doesn't make any desicions regarding them, he worries about the money side e.g. the budget, the advertisement.
also the creators of fallout didn't actually invent the word vault so i don't really know what the pointless rant was for.--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 02:48, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

In the game it's called an M8A1. It's definitely the XM8. It's Treyarch doing what they do. Being creative with things that shouldn't have creativity added. [[User:DJCDavisDubstep|DJCDavisDubstep]] 16:25, 10 July 2012 (PDT)

Well... maybe I might give this game a chance when it comes out. But seriously, if this is what all future Call of Duty games are going to follow from this point onward, then I will stick with the older ones instead. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 22:20, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

Hey, thanks to the video game industry, one would think that there may be a chance that the project will get cancelled like many games before it... unfortunately since the Call Of Duty franchise pops out games like a mother rabbit the future seems bleak...
--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 01:44, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure the game will still have all the mindless shooter nonsense that makes them millions and spawns dozens of poor imitations, but the addition of branching storylines and sandbox gameplay at least makes things more interesting. The Call of Duty formula stagnated with Modern Warfare 2, as it showed that it was little more than repeating the same basic formula with minor changes that add less new content than the average DLC pack. Black Ops at least tried to break from the mold a bit with the helicopter sequences (a throwback to the old games' vehicle segments) and the protagonist not suddenly losing his voice when you look through his eyes. I'm proud of Treyarch for trying to actually do something different and make an interesting game instead of following Infinity Ward and Activision's lead and just making a clone of Black Ops with some new weapons and tweaking the multiplayer. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

== M16A1? ==

Link to image

(403 error)

also the futuristic M4: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120502191412/callofduty/images/5/53/20120502-084241.jpg

The 'futuristic' M4 in the link above appears to be based upon the GR4 G26 airsoft rifle manufactured by Guay & Guay. Shown here for comparison: http://www.titano-shopping.com/immagini/Prodotti/Big/GR4_G26_DST

Yes it looks like that... It's not the first time CoD takes from airosft the looks for the guns

I wouldn't be surprised if they just used that futuristic looking gun for the photoshoot for the poster and it doesn't appear at all in the game itself. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:32, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

All those links are broken. Also I saw the recent trailer and the sillohuotte images of the M16 does look like an A1 from the handguard but the pop up trailer on gametrailers.com called it a classic M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:51, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

:Classic? It was an M4 before there were any M4s. That's a hipster M4 if there ever was one... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:43, 5 May 2012 (CDT)

Speaking of the M16A1, why are we given the A1 in the game. The story mission where the weapon was recommended took place in 1989 in Panama. The standard mag looks like a 20 rounder and it was called the A1. By the 80s, the US Army had already started using 30 round mags and replaced the A1 with the A2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:33, 14 November 2012 (EST)

I'm surprised they didn't bring back the CAR-15 or whatever that was in the first game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:39, 15 November 2012 (EST)

== Rename ==

Shouldn't the page be renamed to "Call of Duty: Black Ops II". With the Roman numerals, because that's what all official material lists it as. - [[User:1morey]] May 5, 2012 8:59 AM (EST)

:Naw, since that would put it out of order when they inevitably make Black Ops 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:08, 6 May 2012 (CDT)

::A note could be made in the first paragraph though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:36, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

::Or the page could simply be named correctly. Who care if the games aren't listed in order of release. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 14:17, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

== AK variant during horse scene ==

Recently revealed production images of Black Ops 2 not only show how seriously Treyarch is taking the precise animation of horses but also that the AK variants they are carrying are actually mo-capped TOYS:
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2012/05/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-II-Horse-Motion-Capture-2.jpg

:Ha, that's the most obvious airsoft horse I've ever seen. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:40, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

== Bulldog Assault Rifle ==

Trailer from BO2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr0Z3RsOmlo

looks like the assault rifle from distric 9 use by the bad guys

:Looks like a futuristic QB rifle variant to me.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 06:34, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

::The name "Type 25" has been mentioned. Could that be it?

:::Most likely is. In fact, it almost definitely is, but we can't actually confirm that until the game comes out. Also, remember to sign your posts. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 05:46, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Preview ==

A preview mentions the Type 95 and Keltec KSG by name. Will wait for screens.
http://www.nowgamer.com/xbox-360/xbox-360-previews/1388343/black_ops_2_campaign_eyeson_with_two_levels_protect_potus_singapore.html

Well hopefully it's the real Type 95 and not the Type 97 misnamed [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Black Ops 2 Behind the Scenes E3 trailer ==

The new Behind the Scenes BO2 trailer released at E3 shows a couple of guns, most notably a sniper rifle at 3:18
Link to trailer: http://youtu(dot)be/GElKpJLvKLc
:2:08, what looks like a Galil SAR, 2:41, possible MM1 grenade launcher [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 05:37, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

In another behind the scenes trailer, there's a KRISS Vector.--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 15:03, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== There's a reason the Vector is called a K10 ==

Apparently, at SHOT Show 2011, a newer, improved, slightly more compact variant of the Vector with a telescoping stock was revealed, called the K10.
Here's the source:
:http://www.defensereview.com/kriss-k10-super-v-vector-xsmg-submachine-gun-smg-product-improvedupgraded-multi-caliber-subgun-for-special-operations-forces-sof-and-close-quarters-battle-cqb-applications-shot-show-2011-phot/

It does look slightly different from the Vector, though:
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_1.jpg
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_2.jpg
--[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:45, 6 July 2012 (PST)

== LAPD Shotgun ==

I don't really think that we can call the fact that the LAPD officers are using the KSG incorrect, since the game takes place in the future. Apparently in the time the game takes place, we will have flying, fighting robots, so it's not too hard to imagine that the LAPD could have switched shotguns. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:02, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, that's what I was thinking. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:48, 6 July 2012 (PST)

::Well after talking to some cops, it really depends on the department to say what an officer can have in his car. A lot can get their own personal shotguns in their car after qualifying with it. Not sure about a KSG, but it's possible if approved [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:22, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Yeah, it would probably be even more likely to be in use since the game takes place in the future. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:25, 10 July 2012 (PST)

== The Unknown Shotgun ==

The unknown shotgun is actually the Storm PSR (the ridiculous X-Ray Railgun thing), if you look closely at Harper's vest the white dot is from the scope, and it's also been stated by Treyarch that the Storm PSR has three barrels.... --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 21:20, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

== Gameplay footage ==

Well folks, here's a video from E3 showcasing the extended gameplay of Black Ops 2, and what might be expected in the game when it's released: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTtsn2Srm3E] --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 in segment taking place in the 80's? ==

It seems to me that part of the trailer the AN-94 appears in takes place in one of the 80's segments of the game. I shouldn't be surprised, but seriously, this seems like an even bigger anachronism than usual, even though it's not. Anyone else thinking the same? --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 2:57, 10 July 2012 (PST)

:You never know just because it was seen in the desert doesn't mean its in the 80's segment of the game.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

::That's not what I meant, I just meant if it was part of the main 2025 story line of the game, there probably would have been '''some''' kind of future technology. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 3:14, 10 July 2012 (PST)

Oh yeah, it'll be anachronistic, no doubts there. This is Treyarch, after all. Do you think you'll be seeing anything (non-explosive) from the 20th Century in the future setting? I don't.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:28, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I have no doubt there'll be TONS of anachronisms in the 80's parts. I think the QBZ-97 was in the future part, so that's one thing from the 20th century in the future setting. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:41, 10 July 2012 (PST)

::I did not see it, are you talking about the fictional Type 25, or did i miss it?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:46, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Go on the page, there'll be a QBZ-97, and then it'll say "Type 25" somewhere else on the page. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 5:24, 10 July 2012 (PST)

==SCAR-L :)==

http://k31.kn3.net/D8EA00866.png

Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QP3_8y8uzk

:I'm afraid the picture link doesn't work, but the rifle that appears 1:45 is most definitely a SCAR-H. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:05, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

== IMFDB's Fault ==

Does anyone think that the fact that this game takes place in the future is partly our (IMFDB's users) fault. I bet someone working for Treyarch saw the IMFDB page for Black Ops and how the anachronistic guns are criticized, and thought, "We're anachronistic, are we? Well let's see about being anachronistic when the game takes place over a decade in the future!" --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:46, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

That's.... something to think about for awhile and if they did then either 3arc will be more accurate with the guns or make the guns worst than the first time.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 12:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I don't know why it's such a big deal to everyone, just treat the "game" as a "game" and play it; there are too many over-opinionated comments with the words I DON'T LIKE IT, WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE IT LIKE I WANTED IT!!! WAAAAHHH
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 16:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

To be fair you do know where you are right? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 17:12, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Nah, I highly doubt that anyone at Treyarch or Activision has taken the time to read up about their videogames being featured on this site, and the legit or unnecessary complaints people have made about their past games. IMFDB has been a growing name in the film industry for a while now and this site is often browsed and looked into by those who have made or acted in the films featured on here and many of the administrators (the ones who work in the industry) can vouch for that. But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

You do realize that I meant this as a joke, right? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:07, 21 July 2012 (CDT)

"But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that."

I see where you're getting at, but I want to make a point. I was hoping for a bunch of weapons to be in CoJ 3. And more than a handful of them were in the game (or a variant of the weapon). Just to make this clear, I am an admin for the CoJ Wiki, and we have connections to Techland. And I had posted links to the IMFDB CoJ pages on the fan page for CoJ on Facebook (Which Techland frequents).
I was hoping for a Skorpion, Benelli M4, SW Model 29, FN FAL, M72 LAW, and FN Five-seveN. They were in the game.
I was hoping for a Uzi (Instead, a Mini Uzi), A Sig-Sauer (Instead a SIG Mosquito), Remington 700 ( Instead a Remington M24), MP5 variant (The game had a MP5A2), AR-15 variant (The game had a HK416), Mossberg 500 variant (The game had a Mossberg 500A Field Gun). Now I'm not saying Techland read the page and said "Ph hey, this 1morey guy wants to see these weapons, let's answer his request." That's not what I am saying at all, but I wouldn't doubt they read the page, and used the list as "inspiration". Another user had wanted a Steyr AUG A3. That was a cut weapon.

Anyways, back on topic. I don't doubt some video game companies use this site as inspiration, but if I had to pick one, I would say Infinity Ward, EA, and Treyarch probably don't look at this site at all, I think they just watch a bunch of movies, or see what other games have. - [[User:1morey]] August 7, 2012 3:10 PM (EST)
I mean if this isn't a coincidence, I don't know what is.

== Multiplayer Reveal Trailer ==

The new trailer for the multiplayer of BO2 just went up, showing a plethora of new weapons: -killerkirill, 19:13 GMT, 07/08/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrOpWYsp3L8&feature=g-u-u

:Well, the good thing at least is that the main page will be considerably shorter and easier to maintain. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 14:28, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Taurus Raging Bull/Dan Wesson???, barrett/steyr sniper?/ Mechem NTW?, SRM Arms Model 1212/1216?, Remington MSR? and lots, lots more. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:04, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

This game is going to be worse than Crysis for people coming up with contrived "hybrid" explanations for the guns. That shotgun does look pretty close to a SRM Arms Model 1216 though, even looks like the player is correctly rotating the magazine very 4 shots, never thought I would see that in a game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:25, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

i have played it safe and included the dsr-50 sniper rifle in the page, source= http://mp1st.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Screen-Shot-2012-08-07-at-1.58.00-PM-600x331.png

yellow sniper looks like the Remington MSR, an Ashbury ASW338LM, or an FN SCAR - SSR Mk.20 Mod.0 / Sniper Support Rifle with modifications including bolt action.

--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 23:30, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Looking through screenshots in this article: [url=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/362018/39-black-ops-2-multiplayer-screens-from-the-trailer/?page=1#top_banner] 
-LSAT LMG 
-AN-94 
-QCW-05 known as "Chicom QCB" 
-Kriss K-10 
-H&K XM8 is known as the "M8A1", this is very clearly seen in screencap 17. 
-"Ballista" bolt-action sniper in screencap 18- has an extremely similar first-person appearance to BF3's [[MKEK JNG-90]] 
-FN Mk.48 
-"PDW-5.7" in screencap 12, quite likely a [[P90]] variant, it looks like one, 50 round mag, plus the P90 is a PDW in 5.7 mm. Seen in pic 32 in 3rd person. 
-[[SRM Arms 1200 Series Shotguns|M1216 Shotgun]] 
-Taurus Raging Bull in screencap 12- distinctive sights and red backstrap. 
-Unknown in screencap 20 
-Screencap 25 is possibly also the "Ballista"? Looks similar but too small. 
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 13:13, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

It's the FN Ballista, a new-ish rifle designed to compete with the MSR--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 13:37, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

:Using steel torsion bar action and firing a 7.62mm log? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:51, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

::Thanks Recon42, I hadn't heard of the FN Ballista before. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 16:15, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
::: For future reference: [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF076&gid=FNG005 FNH USA's page on the Ballista].[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:36, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
::: [[:File:FNBallista.jpg|Image uploaded and ready for use.]] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:43, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
This made me remember an interesting thing. I read Treyarch has said there will be no 1980's weapons in multiplayer, but yet the AN-94 is there. Is the information wrong or will the AN-94 not feature in the 80's?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 11:49, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

So, Treyarch is copying BF3 and letting you use iron sights on the sniper rifles, maybe that means they can actually be used to kill people in this one, since long ranged scope rifles were never very practical in the tiny maps of the COD series. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:40, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

even though call of duty: world at war had unscoped sniper rifles and also, Battlefield copied call of duty with ELITE/PREMIUM service and Spec-Ops mode yet this doesn't help anyone. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 15:18, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

I'm not saying that BF doesn't copy COD, it does, I know that and everybody else knows that. I wasn't saying , "BF is better than COD, because BF is original." The only points I was trying to make was that due to the popularity of non-scoped sniper rifles in BF3, 3arc decided to add this feature and that sniper rifle were not useful in COD multiplayer. WAW didn't really have unscoped sniper rifles, they were infantry rifles that you could mount a scope on, it's the equivalent of putting a sniper scope on an assault rifle in a game that takes place in modern times. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:09, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

== Raging Judge model ==

I think the Raging Judge that they are basing their model on based on is this one:
[[File:Taurus Raging Judge XXVII.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Taurus Raging Judge - 28 gauge]]
This is chambered in 28 gauge shotshells (which is 13.97mm or .550in for those wondering) and was unveiled in 2011 but was blocked (for valid reasons in my opinion) by the BATFE so it never entered production. Despite this, the fact that the gun in the game has a five round unfluted cylinder as opposed to the 6 round fluted cylinder on the .454 production model indicates that this was their source material. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:42, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:So, um...Were they trying to beat the Maadi-Griffin in the stupid handgun cartridge arms race? I'm calling it, someone's going to have made a handgun that fires 20mm Hispano by 2020. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::"A Taurus Raging Judge, identifiable by the red stripe along the handle..." Doesn't the [[Taurus Raging Bull]] have the same stripe on the grips? Is there anything else to prove that this is a Raging Judge and not a Raging Bull? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:08, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:::It does also say "Raging Judge" in the bottom right corner of the HUD. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:21, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::::Well, that would do it then. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:24, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Weapons once the game is released ==

Once the game is released, and after a few days, the page is mostly completed, should we mention for the weapons which ones are based on the actual weapons, and which ones are just "futuristic" versions of the weapon. Anyone get what I'm saying.

Like the Chicom QCB, is that really a QCW-05, or is that a futuristic gun modeled after the QCW-05? I figure the TDI Kard is a TDI Kard, because it does't really need mocked up that much, since the real-life weapon looks futuristic already. - [[User:1morey]] August 14, 2012 12:03 PM (EST)

== Weapon selection video ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fuba3mPotE

DSR-50 | SVU | Ballista

fictional M1216 | Saiga 12 | Remington M870 RCS

LSAT | QBB-95 | Mk48

Skorpion EVO A3

KARD | FNP-45 Tactical | Taurus | futurised M93R

M8A1 | SMR (futurised AUGA3?) | futurised Type 95 | SA58 | SIG556 | SCAR-H | AN-94

Milkor MGL | futurised Stinger | handheld GAU-19/A

A-10 | Commanche [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 04:53, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== B23-R Nomenclature ==

Could B23-R stand for " Beretta 2023 Raffica"? It's very similar to other Beretta pistols, so I guess that's a reasonable guess [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:42, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:I don't think so, as to me I think it is a 1911 based pistol. The shaoe of the rear of the slide, the hammer and the trigger look very 1911-ish to me. Also, I just want to point out that the comment about the two ejection ports makes absolutely no sense. First off, I don't think it is a second ejection port, but is simply where the top of the slide has been removed showing the exposed barrel (think the Beretta 92 but with a bridge in front of the ejection area). Secondly, how would having an ejection port in front of another make it possible to eject the cartridges out the other side? The slide would have to travel back further to line the chamber up with this second ejection port for one thing which I can't see being possible. The layout of this gun is pretty standard so I don't think it will be doing anything crazy, and regardless this feature would have absolutely no utility or point in a game.

== M249 SAW and MK48 are the same ==

Look at the gas regulator plug of the so called M249 SAW. It is clearly from an Mk 48. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:17, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== Can we PLEASE change it? ==

Could we please get rid of the two ejection ports bullshit from the B23-R section of the page? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 17:45, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

:If you want to change it, then change it. I doubt anyone is going to argue with you. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:59, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

::Hm, looks like someone already did. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 18:37, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 ==
I like the comment under the pic of the AN-94 reloading that says it has 5.56 rounds in the mag, so it could be a fictional export version. It could be, OR more reasonably, the developers decided to ignore the calibers and modeled the same cartridges in all of the assault rifles' magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:51, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
:It's the later. And even if it happens to be the former, I doubt they would care enough to give an explanation ingame. But they stopped caring about these 'tiny details' a long time ago.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:52, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
::Yeah, it seems they are so many overspeculations on this page, like the how it says the B-23 is possibly a Beretta. Why, because it has the letter B, it doesn't really look like any Beretta design. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:43, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
:::To be honest, in my opinion the 'B23R' doesn't actually resemble, outside of it's name, any real specific pistol. It's just a chimera of different futuristic parts that fulfills the same gameplay niche as the Beretta 93R from the previous titles.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 15:00, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
::::Sorry about that comment, I noticed the rounds were 5x56MM NATO. The part about it being an export version was unnecessary for me to write, it's much more reasonable that it's just lack of detail by the developers.
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 15:54, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

== Beta leak ==

I know it can't be used on the main page, but for those who are planning on playing the game and are curious about the weapons, 7 new ones were found in the leaked beta build, [http://videobam.com/RHFxv here's a video of them.] --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] ([[User talk:Ghostdigga|talk]]) 21:20, 18 September 2012 (EDT)

Ahh, the return of select-fire. Missed it from the original COD and the United Offensive expansion. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 07:52, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Text confirms that the Taurus does actually fire the 28 gauge shotgun shells it is meant to. This surprises me, I assumed they just based the model on the wrong image. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:38, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

m27 iar, scar type lmg, and i would say the rpg was airtronic due to this pic:
look at the solider on the left

http://cdn.medialib.oxm.co.uk/screens/screenshot_30711.jpg
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] ([[User talk:Pistolpete|talk]]) 09:47, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

::Five-seveN, MTAR, M27 and FN HAMR spotted. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 09:17, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/120918a.jpg

== H&K m27 ==

On the cod wikia i found the m27 i know the hk416 m27 variant so i identified it as the actual m27 no real modification to make it look futuristic their calling it an assault rifle (facepalm) there's a picture on there I don't know to upload pictures on here though.--[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 18:45, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:Eh, if they're using an M27 with a 30-rounder and calling it an AR I wouldn't really call that wrong per se, since the M27 is only a SAW because the USMC is issuing it as one (much like the QJY-88 is issued as a GPMG even though it's actually an LMG). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:00, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
::Yeah, I agree, and most Marines that were issued it are using it as an AR, apparently, because it essentially is. Also, person above Evil Tim, please sign your name by pressing the signature button at the top or putting four of this: ~ after your name. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 10:18, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
::: Yeah sorry i need to remember that i know how to do just forgot but i also facepalmed but its not a 30 round capacity i found that out it appears to be but its going to have a 50 round capacity granted there are 50 round AR mags but still combined with extended clip and all that other COD BS it might as well be an LMG. --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 18:45, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:::: New footage of the m27 in the zombies gameplay trailer on top on a bus also new footage of the m1216 and the pdw 57 and what appear to be the tar 21 or QBZ-97 in the video --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 20:25, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:The M27 is not an assault rifle. It is a Squad Automatic Weapon, which can be considered as a sub-category of the machine gun group. Magazine size has nothing to do with its classification. The Minimi or RPK will not be "denoted" to an assault rifle is you use it with a 30-round STANAG/AK magazine. The M27 is the same as the FN HAMR - which is listed as a MG.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 05:29, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
::The thing is SAW is a weapon role, not a weapon type; if you issued the M1911 to squad support gunners it would be a SAW (it would just be a terrible one). There is no mechanical reason to ''not'' call the M27 an assault rifle, just as there's no mechanical reason to not call the QJY-88 a light machine gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:56, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
:::You could argue that the M27 is optimised for the SAW role by supposedly having a heavier weight barrel, but as the weight increase is only something like 40g I think this is actually a myth. I believe the only physical difference between an HK416 D16.5RS and the M27 IAR are the handguard being 11" long rather than 9" which means that the bayonet lug is also a separate piece placed further forward on the barrel rather than the HK 416 which mounts the lug on the gas block, the bolt carrier has a captive firing pin retaining pin, the fire selector is ambidexterous and the bolt handle is ambidextrous (not double sided but can be switch sides at an armourer level). None of these modifications are what I would deem to be SAW modifications, with the possible exception of the longer handguard allowing a separate vertical grip and bipod to be used more easily, so i you were classifying the weapon on its characteristics rather than role I would put it as an AR. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:28, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
:Yeah.... also it looks like it has a combined bayonet lug / gas block and some sort of step in the barrel, so I would say that it is not even a real M27 but a HK416. Now *that* should definitely go to the rifles. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 07:07, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
::Are there any images out yet of it apart from the gear screen image on the COD Wiki? From that image it also looks like it has the shorter 9" handguard used on the standard HK416 rifles. Barrel is throwing me a bit as it looks like it might have the M4 profile barrel that is on the 14.5" rifles, but in terms of length it looks like it is a 16.5" barrel which should be straight. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:20, 27 September 2012 (EDT)

What seems odd to me is how a heavy assault rifle/light machine gun has higher mobility than others in it's class [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] ([[User talk:Gonzaga|talk]]) 19:34, 29 September 2012 (EDT)

I found this odd too, the M27 IAR would be heavier and hence more stable in automatic fire than the other ARs, not lighter/better mobility. The barrel is somewhat confusing, it looks to be shaped after a stepped AR-15 carbine barrel but too long.
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 15:50, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

== FN HAMR ==

Along the same lines as the M27, I think the "FN HAMR" is actually just a regular SCAR that they are mis-naming. The main difference between the regular SCAR and the HAMR is the fact that the lower handguard on the HAMR is deeper to accommodate the gubbins that switches the gun from closed bolt to open bolt when the barrel gets hot. The game gun has the same lower handguard as on a regular scar, with the bottom of the rail being at the same height as the bottom of the front push pin. Also the flash hider is not the one used on the HAMR, but is instead the one from a SCAR-H. If it is the case that this a regular SCAR, do we put it in the AR category because that is what it is? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:56, 1 October 2012 (EDT)
:Yes, and now that you mention it also has the SCAR-like vent holes.I am gonna change it to SCAR-L and the M27 to HK416 too. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 07:57, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

==Pointless weapon stats==
Has anyone noticed how pointless the stats are in the COD series? Seriously these stats are so generic and so open ended to interpretation that I find it hard to compare one gun to the other. In fact I have seen two guns on the roster here alone, one of which has better stats in terms of "blocks" than the other so why would I bother using the other weapon? On top of that they dont seem to match weapon caliber to damage. Ex a MP5 should be the same damage as a Glock 17 but they arent because the Glock is a pistol and the MP5 is a SMG (I know these arent in this game just bare with me). That and why is it that from a distance (straying off topic I know) shotgun pellets seem to disintegrate completely? I love these games but Furry they need better gun designers to look into this--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 18:44, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

The weapon stats have an alarming tendency of being BLATANT LIES. Denkirson runs a xanga page with weapon stats from all the COD games since the first Modern Warfare, and noted how the stat bars in that game were occasionally inaccurate/vague (G36 being more accurate than the M4. The G36 simply has less sight sway, and is not necessarily more accurate) or outright lying (G36 being more powerful than the M4. This is untrue. Both guns have the same 30max-20min damage values.) --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 20:10, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

@HashiriyaR32, not only that, but I also hated how for some reason for example in COD4 how the M9 has less damage than the MP5, while they are both chambered in the same cartridge! I feel that videogames should use the caliber of the weapon to help define stats. For example the damage and range would be the same across all weapon types (because of the cartridge) but should defer in magazine size, recoil, accuracy, and reload speed. Its reasons like this why handguns are so underused in multiplayer--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 15:26, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

:While "damage" can never be perfectly done in games, [[Battlefield 3]]'s weapon damages are all based of calibre. It's still a game and not a simulator, but it's one of the best out there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:31, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

:@Alex T Snow, yeah, forgot about that, honestly havent played BF3 in a while but as memory serves it is more "realistic" with its weapons.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 16:09, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

::Just FYI, an M9 should cause less "damage" than an MP5. An MP5 has a longer barrel meaning that it generates a higher muzzle velocity and hence muzzle energy (which is the simplest analogue to damage). Some stats in these games make no sense, like weapons with the same barrel length and caliber having different damages, but in this particular case they got it broadly correct. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:40, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Just found a clear example of how the weapon stats are pointless. Under the sniper rifles the two in question are the DSR 50 and the XPR 50. It clearly shows that the DSR 50 has better stats in all categories compared to the XPR 50, so the question is if there is a weapon that clearly has better stats then why should I bother using the other weapon (FYI I am a COD veteran and know that sometimes these stats have to be tested out). Anyone have any opinions regarding this example? --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 15:17, 5 November 2012 (EST)
:That one's easy, the DSR-50 is a bolt action whereas the XPR-50 is semi-auto. I would also guess that the XPR-50 might have a large magazine based on how the weapon image looks. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:32, 5 November 2012 (EST)

: @Commando552, thanks for the info, I guess that does answer a little, but don't you think that they should have placed the ammunition capacity? Or at least make the distinctions more apparent? I mean J.C! I literally was using my pen on the screen trying to count each of the different squares.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 16:37, 5 November 2012 (EST)

If you see any references to rates of fire or kill ranges, just be aware that I'm getting them from this image. It's based on the day-1 patch. http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6712/bo2weaponchartv102.png --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 20:32, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:I'm fairly sure those are the multiplayer stats, since the SMR is still fullauto even if you don't choose select fire in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:31, 19 November 2012 (EST)

They are. The full-auto fire mode is the default for the SMR, FAL OSW, JS Type 05, SG556, and XM8 in single-player mode. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 10:09, 19 November 2012 (EST)

==Unknown Assault Rifle==
I was watching the launch trailer for the game and I caught this gun. Not sure what it is, so any help will be hot [[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]]
[[File:Call_Of_Duty_Black_Ops_2_Unknown_Rifle.jpg|none|500px]]

:That is a Saiga 12 shotgun (according to the game). - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 17:32, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

:Looks like an AK-12 to me http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Ak-12.jpg --[[User:Doom-generation|Doom-generation]] ([[User talk:Doom-generation|talk]]) 20:43, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

::And while it is indeed a super tactical, commando grade, hand made for the operators by the dwarves of Moria, it is just a Saiga with aftermarket HK style back sights and rails slapped on like there's no tomorrow. But that's hardly the most worrisome thing by now.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 02:30, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

::: Well, honestly, I think it would be dumber to have an elite operator using a plain weapon than a modified one like that. Especially since in this game you actually get to use side rails (with Laser Sights, though I think that's it), the 4-sides rails system doesn't seem exaggerated like in the past ones. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] ([[User talk:Gonzaga|talk]]) 21:09, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

::::Certainly so, although I am baffled by the decision as to why decided to make it look so 'westernized' (HK sight, rails more typical for aftermarket then modern military use... etc.) if it's a (I assume) firearm of the opposing force. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 08:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)

:::::Well Russian special forces (and police) have been known to put American aftermarket parts (Magpul stocks, EOTechs, stuff like that) on their weapons, but I don't think they'd go extreme with it though. Example: [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/0_848ce_a_11e_10bb_orig-tfb.jpeg M4 style stock] --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] ([[User talk:Ghostdigga|talk]]) 17:51, 5 November 2012 (EST)

== Live action trailer just released ==

So... now there's a live action trailer for Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, and it looks pretty impressive. It's got quite a few celebrities in it as well as a few YouTube personalities, along with some of the modern and futuristic weapons that will be seen in the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wIZp_E2CxQ

: Surprised FPS Russia didn't say 'Have nice day.'-Survivalkid21

==SPOILERS: Full walkthrough leaked==

As usual, Game Anyone has leaked a full walkthrough of the game. You can at least make a note of the weapons for later. Already seen a [[Hawk MM1 grenade launcher]], a full size [[MP5]], and the [[FAL]] is back and has a select fire option. http://www.gameanyone.com/video/505480 [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:36, 6 November 2012 (EST)
:Rifles Fal | Galil | M16A1 | "AK47" (AKM?)

:SMGs MP5A3 | AK74U | Uzi

:Shotties Olympia over and under | SPAS 12

:LMGs RPD | M60 | Minigun (same one as Vorkuta)

:Snipers M82A1 | SVD Dragunov

:Pistols 1911 | Makarov PM | Browning HP

:Launchers RPG7 | Stinger | MM1

I believe there is no Type 97 and only the fictional Type 25 in the game.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 18:11, 7 November 2012 (EST)
** There's two different kinds of miniguns: there's the handheld minigun from the first Black Ops, and a new "Death Machine" that looks to be a futuristic one. The LSAT machine gun also has a digital ammo counter like the ''Aliens'' pulse rifle. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:36, 7 November 2012 (EST)

==No optics==

It's kinda straight that in the future, none of the characters around you carry their guns with any sort of attachments on their weapons. No optics, grips or anything. The flashback scenes in the 80s make sense because electronics were not big at the time. It was more strange still for us to be carrying a gun with a red dot sight [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:18, 13 November 2012 (EST)
:It's especially odd, considering all the weight and bulk of RIS, to put nothing on it at all. Hmm. Well this is CoD, after all. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 13:00, 14 November 2012 (EST)
Not always true. A lot of the other series have optics on certain of your buddies. Other points where we have the odd no optics are pick up weapons off some enemies. It's kinda weird that some of the mercs and the Chinese who uses more advanced weapons have no optics on their guns. When you play a different SEAL in the Strike missions, some times you start off with a gun that has no optic on it. This is the future, optics are the way of the future, especially for Spec Ops guys [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:30, 14 November 2012 (EST)

==Realism==

[[File:Blop2-Stinger-3.jpg|200px|thumb|left]]I know this is just a game that should be played for fun but... Come on, here we can see that the player just destroyed a tank with a FIM92 Stinger while riding a horse and he has 19 more Stingers on him. I'd like to see him with 19 launchers on his back. I think it beats any other nonsense in a game that has real firearms--[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 15:29, 15 November 2012 (EST)
:Of all the things that is kinda weird and stupid in this game, you pointed this out? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:25, 15 November 2012 (EST)

Actually, it's very realistic. Didn't you know that every real-life Black Ops operator has a small army of invisible midgets that carry all their extra ammo? --[[User:CommanderLukas|Commander Lukas]] ([[User talk:CommanderLukas|talk]]) 17:14, 15 November 2012 (EST)

Eh, certain kit configurations in MGS4 can result in Snake carrying three or more tons of rocket launchers. Naw, the one that really annoyed me was "fast mag" but "extended clip." Why did they have to get it right ''and'' wrong in the same game? The invisible long barrels and foregrips and unchanged high-cap magazines kinda irritated me, too. Still, nice to see they're finally trying to put the fire selectors in the right positions and have magazines with actual ammo in them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:14, 16 November 2012 (EST)

:Thinking about it, the most likely answer (especially in light of the awesomely silly commie land battleship at the end) is that it was originally intended as a future level with a futuristic multi-mode rocket launcher, but either they thought the horse was silly in the future or there weren't enough past levels, so it ended up being a magic dual-mode Stinger. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:38, 17 November 2012 (EST)

==AN94 missing magazines==

At the beginning of Achilles' Veil, when you walk slowly with Menendez, if you look around at all the AN94s, most of them don't have magazines attached. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:51, 15 November 2012 (EST)
:They may be acting in a ceremonial capacity, and are carrying their weapons unloaded. Only Menendez (and possibly the few soldiers outside with him) expected the American assault, and would have been prepared to fire on the VTOLs and Yemeni troops. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 03:17, 16 November 2012 (EST)
::Naw, I've got shots of them actually aiming the things at the VTOL when it arrives, have to check again to see if any of the empty ones fire but I think they do. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:32, 16 November 2012 (EST)
::Yeah, I thought for a second about the ceremonial angle, but when Menendez shoots down a VTOL, most of the soldiers around him were missing mags in their rifles [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:23, 16 November 2012 (EST)
::: Considering the scale of the apparent error, then, it may be intentional. It would be hard for something like models with missing magazines to make it past testing. I'm willing to bet ceremonial, since I've seen many times where soldiers acting as ceremonial guards will carry their rifles unloaded and with no magazine. The function that's occurring would make sense for this action. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 03:26, 17 November 2012 (EST)
::::Yeah, but again, they ''aim'' rifles with no magazines at things, though I'm going back through now to get more screencaps and check if they actually fire them without magazines. It might just be a spawning bug, and a visual error a good 70% of users won't even notice is going to get flagged as "low priority" even in the likely case that the QA team spotted it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:39, 17 November 2012 (EST)
:::::Yeah, I noticed this during my playthrough. I was using an AN-94 on this level, and in first person my gun had no magazine. It reappeared during my reload, and disappeared afterwards. I was going to grab a screenshot and uypload it, but it appears I've been beaten to it :P [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 09:05, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== Terminology note ==

"The first game" = World at War, not Black Ops.

"The previous game" should not be used, since it's confusing as to whether that's MW3 or Black Ops. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:48, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:By that standard, "the first game" would mean Call of Duty 1, so I would say just use the full name of the game in question. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] ([[User talk:Animalmenace|talk]])

== STORM PSR Sniper Rifle ==

is it just me or did the makers of call of duty: black ops II put in the em-1 railgun from the movie eraser?
the scope may not see in MRI mode, but it can see in thermal or infrared or whatever they call it in the game, but i enjoyed it immensely. i love the game.
:As I recall this actually ''was'' something Metal Storm Inc were suggesting their technology could do back when they were touting their million RPM rig to everyone who would listen; a superfast burst would potential result in multiple projectiles hitting the same position for very high penetration. Trouble was the superfast Metal Storm guns have issues with minor things like ''not exploding'' because gun barrels really don't like it when you fire a round while the previous one is still inside the barrel. They came up with some complicated venting system to solve that, but realised it basically removed all the advantages Metal Storm was supposed to have (in that it was more complex and meant the weapon had more moving parts than a normal gun) and so went over to stacked-round mortars, GLs and that underbarrel shotgun they have. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:54, 20 November 2012 (EST)

==New Screenshots==

I just added a few screenshots for some of the missing weapons (MP5A3, Beretta M682, SPAS-12, M1216, Type 25, M8A1, SIG 556) let me know if there's anything wrong with them and I'll take better ones. I had shots for the HAMR( SCAR-L) and the SCAR-H but they didn't turn out well so I didn't upload them. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 10:33, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:It's ok, I've got about three thousand screenshots and pretty much everything covered, and I think I'm running higher resolution and settings. If you want something to do, though, you could try making the ''World at War'' page...Well, "less awful" would be a start, even. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 12:55, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::I have recently acquired a physical copy of ''World at War'' so I'll see what I can do about in game screenshots. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 09:04, 25 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, I was running everything on Max but I don't think FRAPS likes Black Ops 2 very much because everything turned out low-res. And I don't own World at War, so I can't really contribute to it's page :P [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 13:32, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::You shouldn't really need FRAPs, if you're running it through Steam it has its own screenshot key and even if you're not there should be a "take screenshot" command in the control settings. Though as said, I've got this one covered so we don't really need anyone else getting caps for it anyway. Thanks for the effort, though. :) [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:37, 20 November 2012 (EST)
::::I use FRAPS because I can save the images as .PNGs because I take a lot of game screenshots for my blog, and as far as I know Steam only does .JPGs. But Yeah, I'll keep an eye out next time I'm grabbing screenshots so I don't step on any toes. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 11:04, 22 November 2012 (EST)

== Fun with old models ==

So, the Kurzer 8 cm Granatwerfer 42 model is seven years old. For those wondering if this is some kind of record, it's got a long way to go; I believe the record for officially recycled art assets is ''Castlevania'', which got a Medusa Head sprite in ''Rondo of Blood'' in 1993 and recycled it until ''Order of Ecclesia'' in 2008. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:13, 22 November 2012 (EST)

== Could someone explain this if possible? ==

I don't have the game, so forgive me if i am missing something obvious, but i have noticed several confusing things in the various gameplay videos.

First of all, why does some guns not eject casings? I know guns can eject downwards but no casings are left on the floor. This seems to apply to all Chinese weapons, the MTAR-21, SMR and PDW-57. I know it could be a mistake on the developer's part but it seems so obvious, am i missing anything?

Secondly, regarding the PDW-57, the above could potentially make sense as the casings are left in the magazine even when it has been fired empty. But it seems impractical, and why are they all in the same place no matter how many shots have been fired? Do they move in a circle around the inside of the magazine?

Thirdly, how does Fast Mag work on Shotguns with tube magazines?

Also, can 1980's weapons, when used in the future levels after completing the game, use futuristic attachments?

Finally, why does some videos decipt the KSG reloading one shell at a time and others two shells at a time?

Thanks in advance. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 18:54, 24 November 2012 (EST)

Fast mag for the tube-magged shotguns makes it so that you reload two shells at a time. 1980s weapons cannot use futuristic attachments even in the 2025 missions. They have their own set of attachments.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 19:01, 24 November 2012 (EST)

:The bullpup weapons have the ejection port where it generally isn't even on-screen when the weapon is shouldered, so there's no way you'd see ejected brass. PDW-57 is probably supposed to eject down like the P90. They probably just didn't bother with a brass effect you'd hardly ever see, and it's not like the series is exactly big on getting brass right (see also every revolver reload ever).

:PDW-57 just isn't animated, game P90s almost never are and in general a transparent magazine will just show a fixed number of rounds inside it. While you can cycle rounds back into a magazine after firing (aircraft cannons sometimes do it) it would be impractical in a weapon that wasn't belt fed because you'd have to have the weapon basically eject spent casings back into its own magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:22, 25 November 2012 (EST)

::It is very rare in games to see a P90 cartridge cycle. The one that I am known to is the Rainbow Six Vegas series. More games should have this feature and take away the ammo counter on screen, use visual cues. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 17:52, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:::MGS4 does it, too. But the ammo counter is mainly there because your character is supposed to be a soldier, and so he'd have some sense of the weight of his weapon and be more focused on how many rounds he's fired than the player. It's like, say, a minimap is supposed to substitute for your character's knowledge of the area they're in; it's much easier to have the character pass their knowledge to the player rather than expecting the player to BE the character. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:06, 27 November 2012 (EST)

Thanks for the answers, both of you. Very much appreciated. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 15:02, 25 November 2012 (EST)

== Overall thoughts on the game... ==

So I managed to pick up a copy of the game, and I played it several times through, and well... it was pretty impressive to say in the least.

The strong points of the game are pretty much as follows: the pre-mission weapon customization, being able to drive/command vehicles, the developers making an attempt at providing more details on the weapons, players getting the opportunity to use every weapon on any mission (even if it doesn't fit the time period), a pretty damn good musical soundtrack, giving the protagonists and antagonists better personalities and character depth rather than just presenting them as wooden beings who follow orders or one-track objectives, and finally, presenting a story that can end in a different number of ways depending on your choices, was understandable for the most part, and how such a story could possibly one day happen in real life (Cause let's be honest here folks, there are people out there in the world like Raul Menendez who wish to create chaos and anarchy (for whatever purpose suits them), and yet they claim to 'fight for the oppressed', and are viewed and praised as 'heroes', 'revolutionaries' and 'saints' by the people that are often called 'the 99%' in today's fast-changing society of ours... [interesting Occupy Movement reference there, Treyarch]).

Call of Duty: Black Ops II definitely qualifies to be on the list of "Top X best games of 2012", and perhaps the better Call of Duty game that not only ranks up there along with Call of Duty (2003) and Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (at least I think so, feel free to disagree), but also the better Call of Duty game that Activision has made in the past 5 years. I hope that the next batch of Call of Duty games are just as good as this one was. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] ([[User talk:ThatoneguyJosh|talk]]) 04:45, 28 November 2012 (EST)

Aside from Menendez's back story and his organization, the story was pretty good. I need the game to explain what the villain is apart of and what they represent [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:04, 28 November 2012 (EST)

== Why is the SCAR-H model listed as being too thin? ==

I don't find the in-game model to be thinner than it really should. What are we going by? The top parts of both the SCAR-H and the SCAR-L have the same width due to both of them having the same Picatinny rail on top. [[User:RadicalDisconnect|RadicalDisconnect]] ([[User talk:RadicalDisconnect|talk]]) 02:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)

I looked at it too. I've handled a SCAR-17S and it isn't "bulky" really [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:57, 1 December 2012 (EST)

I suggest removing that line, as I don't find the rifle to be too thin at all. I think the illusion came from the fact that the Picatinny rails have more slots in them than in previous games. [[User:RadicalDisconnect|RadicalDisconnect]] ([[User talk:RadicalDisconnect|talk]]) 08:11, 12 December 2012 (EST)

== Reloadings are incorrectly described .... ==

Both the USAF M16 and MP5A3 sections states the magazines are empty/solid when reloading, while after lenthy examination, i have found all weapons to feature bullets in their inserted magazines. It also seems that the previous magazine visibly features bullets when reloading from non-empty and no bullets when reloading from empty. This includes the M16 and MP5. It does however seem like this was overlooked on Fast Mags. Can whoever took the MP5 images specify if he was using Fast Mag in the image thet claims it is solid?

Otherwise this should be pointed out somewhere on the page instead. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 20:18, 6 December 2012 (EST)

:Fast mag on the M16 but I don't think so on the MP5 (edit: checked, it's a fast mag there too), I'll have to go in and check again next time I'm off work (that'll be sunday). Caption for the M16 does specify that the magazines in the screenshot are empty, it doesn't say they always are. Incidentally if you're wondering why there's a lot of shots from "Old Wounds," it's the one where they give you guns the fastest. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:59, 7 December 2012 (EST)

While it doesn't say it is always empty, it does give that impression. I thought so until i checked myself. Maybe just pointing out somewhere that Fast Mag lacks detail could perhaps be useful. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 07:55, 7 December 2012 (EST)

:I'll get some extra shots on sunday for it. It's pretty hard with the MP5 because the mag's not actually on screen for very long (same with Far Cry 3 and finding SPAS reloads where there's a cartridge on-screen, it seems) but I have a stupid mouse with one button set to screenshot so I will stupid at the game until it loses. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:43, 7 December 2012 (EST)

== Learned some things ==
Drift0r's BO2 vids have taught me something that we could probably add to the main article.
I mentioned, correctly, that Select Fire alters handling characteristics, and full-auto is usually slower than burst (we already know of one case that isn't true). What I just found out is that a select-fire Vector has identical burst and full-auto ROFs, and its burst mode is a 2-round burst, like the AN-94, and unlike all the other SF-enabled burst modes of other full-auto weapons. Also, I managed to find a more recent version of the BO2 weapon chart, and the mentioning of the SIG 556's damage profile being altered in full-auto mode (via SF) is no longer true. It now has identical max-min damages (40-24) in both burst and full-auto. What is still true is that it still suffers a reduction in its 3 and 4 hit kill ranges.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 23:19, 9 December 2012 (EST)

== Protection level ==

This page should not be infinitely protected from editing, it can still be improved. The [[Modern Warfare 3]] page is also still protected. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2012 (EST)
:You can suggest changes here, both pages are likely to attract stupidity. This page will be finished shortly, I just need to find time to sift through the rest of my screencaps. I know about the 92SB in MW3, I'm going to add it when I get around to getting a screencap, should all be done over the weekend. That aside MW3 is complete and 99% of edits to it will be either adding worthless or incorrect information. Please don't dictate what our protection policy should be, it ''is'' policy to fully protect high-traffic pages. ''Rambo III'' has been sysop protected for the last three and a half years. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:44, 21 December 2012 (EST)
::Okay, the M16A4 should be added, as it is seen during a cutscene in which Woods strangles a Viet Cong soldier with the rifle, yet it is not obtainable during gameplay. The SMR also turned out to be a true Saritch 308 (or at least with a slightly modified appearance like the XM8, but not just a fictional weapon based on it), due to this evidence given in the Call of Duty Wiki: - "In Zombies, Marlton comments on how the SMR uses .308 rounds, just like the Saritch 308 - On ELiTE, [...] the default file name was 'Saritch' - SMR possibly stands for 'Saritch Modular Rifle' or 'Saritch Marksman Rifle'". Also, the KAP-40 is described in the IMFDB page as "a fully automatic handgun based on the TDI Kard", yet I don't find any major difference between them (unless the full-auto fire mode is incorrect); its mechanism and caliber (.45 ACP) are also the same as the real TDI Kard, so I believe that it is indeed a TDI Kard. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 03:35, 22 December 2012 (EST)
::::Would the "40" in "KAP-40" not imply somewhat that the pistol is chambered in a .40-calibre round, such as .40 S&W? I know it's a trivial thing, but that's the first thing that came to my mind upon hearing the name. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] ([[User talk:Dirty Harold|talk]]) 07:31, 22 December 2012 (EST)
:::::No, because the left hand side of the KAP-40 says ".45 ACP" --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 10:29, 22 December 2012 (EST)
::::::Ah, right--upon examining the gun more closely, I can see where it says that. Seems as though "KAP-45" would have been a more appropriate name given the circumstances. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] ([[User talk:Dirty Harold|talk]]) 11:04, 22 December 2012 (EST)
:::I'll check for the M16 tomorrow, the SMR isn't really all that similar to the Saritch (it's about the same shape, but it looks like it's been built out of features of other guns like the B23R; it's about as close as the Type 25 is to any of the QB rifles) and the KAP is obviously based on the Kard but has, among other things, completely different join lines, a differently shaped grip, a TDI Vector fire selector (since the real one has no full-auto functionality) and a stupidly out-of-reach Vector bolt release. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:47, 22 December 2012 (EST)
::::That's right, the SMR seems to contain parts of the Vulkan M2T Ukrainian experimental assault rifle. It should also be mentioned that the 3-round burst and fully-automatic fire are incorrect for the SG 556, since the real one only comes in semi-auto. For the M16A4, it is seen in Woods' flashback in the mission "Pyrrhic Victory". And an extra note: the Barrett M107 section should contain a sentence like "While the M82A1 would fit in the game's setting (having been developed in 1982), the M107 is highly anachronistic, since it ..." (because it is referred to as Barrett M82A1 in-game) --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:55, 22 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I think the actual error there is that Barrett have started marketing the M107 as the M82A1 (per our own page on the Barrett rifles), so the problem is they put the wrong M82A1 in the game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:33, 23 December 2012 (EST)

== Basis of in-game Saiga? ==

Guys, I think I may have found the the Saiga Treyarch based in the in-game model off of:
[http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=25&category_id=2&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=3 Link to page on Red Jacket website]
(I don't know how to "safely" place a link onto IMFDB from an iPad, which is currently my only form of Internet access, so it would be much appreciated if someone could tell me how so I could up date it later)
If anyone asks why I was on the website of the atrocious Red Jacket Firearms, I was looking up "AK Shotguns" to see if there were anymore I didn't know about. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 03:00, 25 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-12-25T07:58:23Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Basis of in-game Saiga? */

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-12-25T07:57:30Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Basis of in-game Saiga? */ new section

==Live Action Trailers==
==="Surprise" Trailer"===

====Taurus Judge====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComTaurusJudge.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Taurus Judge stuffed in a "players" vest. This appears to be standing in for the [[Taurus Raging Judge]] as the Judge dose not appear in game.]]

====Remington 870====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComRemington870.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"''Zombies? Groovy''". A "player" is about to take on a zombie horde with a Remington 870 equipped with a M4 style stock and a pump mounted tac light. Judging by this set up the regular Remington 870 seen here in standing in for the MCS version seen in game.]]

====AK74M====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComAK74M.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another "player" in the background with an AK74M due to the indent on the stock. This appears to be standing in for the AN-94 seen ingame.]]

====AKU-94====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComAKU94.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AKU-94 seen in the hands of the "player" on the left. This appears to be standing for the fictional "Type 25" seen ingame. Also their are no references to AKUs in American film or TV armories so either this is a very good mockup from a [[Norinco Type 86S]] or this is a prop.]]

====M14====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComMGLMK1&M134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Look in the bottom left corner; see that? Its the chalk outline for the M14 in zombies mode.]]

====M14 Rogue Chassis System====

[[File:M14 Rogue Chassis System.JPG|thumb|none|450px|M14 Rogue Chassis System - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:CODBO2LiveActComUnknownSniperRifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|"''Hey buddy.''"]]
[[File:CODBO2LiveActComUnknownSniperRifleFront.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The front end of the M14.]]
[[File:CODBO2LiveActComUnknownSniperRifleScope.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The scope.]]

====XM8 (Prop)====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComLikelyXM8Prop.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An XM8 with the fictional "MMS" optic. Due to obvious reason this is definitely a prop.]]

====Milkor MGL Mk 1====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComMGLMK1&M134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Oh you're screwed.]]

====GE M134====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComMGLMK1&M134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CGI rendered M134s on CLAW AI vehicles.]]

====Semtex====

[[File:CODBO2LiveActComSemtex.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Semtex ready to blow while the guy in the back gives us an epic "oh crap" face.]]

=== LG Cinema Trailer===

====AK Type Rifle====

[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComAKRifle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An AK type rifle in the background. Its possible its the AK74M listed above.]]

:For some reason, it gives me Vz. 58 vibes. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:04, 23 November 2012 (EST)

====M16 Type Rifle====

[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComXM8PropCloseUp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The rifle on the left bares resemblance to an M16 style rifle.]]

====XM8 (Dressed up G36K)====
The fictional "M8A1" variant of the [[Heckler & Koch XM8|H&K XM8 rifle]] appears in the trailer being wielded by a player. Based on close examination, the rifle can be seen ejecting spent casings and appears to have a hinge where the stock connects to the receiver, suggesting that, unlike the one seen in the ''Surprise'' trailer, it could possibly be a live-firing [[Heckler & Koch G36K]] dressed up as an XM8 rather than a prop as previously believed.
[[Image:Xm8 rightmed.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Older version of Heckler & Koch XM8 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:HKG36KR.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36KV with rail top carry handle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComGM134CLAW&XM8Prop.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player firing his G36K. The muzzle flash looks real enough to not be CG.]]
[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComXM8PropCloseUp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close up of the dressed up G36K.]]

====GE M134====

[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComGM134CLAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An M134 mounted on the CLAW.]]
[[File:CODBO2LGLiveActComGM134CLAW&XM8Prop.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A closeup.]]

== Button mashing ==
Anyone else hate the useless button mashing sequences, I have died about 30 times under that horse by now, just waiting for that idiot to figure out a human can't life a horse hehe. Why do they put them in shooters anyway? --[[User:Iceman|Iceman]] ([[User talk:Iceman|talk]]) 11:52, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Urmmm... And how's that relevant to this page? You're just raging at the game xD --[[User:Alisha161fishy|Alisha161Fishy]] ([[User talk:Alisha161fishy|talk]]) 17:00, 14 November 2012 (EST)

You're not supposed to mash for that particular section. You need to hold the triggers/mouse buttons to successfully clear that segment. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 18:05, 15 November 2012 (EST)

== The Newest Joke? ==
Why put up a IMFDB page of this game when it looks clearly like a waste of money - Anonymous User

Because I am loking forward to this game, and cheevo hunting. Besides I am the only biotic organism that plays CoD for the SP and not the multi (well, except for split-screening with my girlfriend). Anyways, I like Call of Duty, and I think this will be cool, and I cannot wait to see what new weapons they will have. - [[User:1morey]] May 6, 2012 8:58 AM (EST)

Because we hate you, that's why. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:44, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

:And ''he sucks'' and we hate him. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:30, 9 June 2012 (CDT)

Sorry [[User:1morey|1morey]], but you are not the only "biotic organism" who buy CoD only for the SP campaign XD [[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]

I too like to play CoD single player campaigns. I dabbled a little in MP here and there, but don't really understand what all the fuss is about. If only the developers put in as much time and effort into the SP nowadays, like they used too :( --[[User:Ultimagameboy|Ultimagameboy]] 19:12, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

If IW/Treyarch put as much effort into SP as they do MP these days, we ''might'' actually get an SP game as epic, or better than, CoD4's. Even today with my negative opinion of the CoD franchise, I ''still'' consider CoD4 to be one of the most epic games I've ever played. This is why I like Battlefield and MoH over CoD, because the devs actually put some effort into SP to make it believable and entertaining instead of just putting millions of random enemies with random guns in front of you in a random location and calling it a story. Maybe the plots of those games weren't as dramatic as Russian paras suddenly falling on suburban USA (if I want to see that, I'll put my ''[[Red Dawn (1984)|Red Dawn]]'' Blu-Ray in), but at least they were believable as events that could ''actually'' happen in the real world, especially so with them taking place in more or less the present day. While that may not matter to others, it ''does'' to me and if I can't accept something happening in reality, I can't get engrossed in it in the game. I call it the "Barney Principle". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:02, 23 November 2012 (EST)

== XM8? ==
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg

Weapon in the pic looks like a modified XM8 [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks like the hybrid ACR from RE6 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:31, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks to just be like a space gun... It "resembles" a XM8 and an ACR, but looks like the SCAR from Crysis. It's just a future weapon. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:40, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

To be more specific,it appears to be the Malaysian variant of the XM8,the Malaysian variant has no built in scope like on the ones designed for the U.S Army,but a rail instead.however it has extra features of weapons such as the ACR, which Treyarch probably to give their own artistic touch to make it look unique and futuristic.[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

In the description, someone wrote that it is based on the M41A1 pulse rifle from Aliens. How? Why? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:52, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

No response to why somebody say the rifle was based on the Pulse Rifle from Aliens? Also is it me or does the firepower of this gun seem a bit weak? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:34, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Don't know about it being based on the M41A (come on, it's ''clearly'' based on the minigun in ''Predator'' [/joke]), but I think given a beefier stock, Treyarch's incarnation would actually look ''good''. Its lines do certainly look more pleasing to me than the current version, and I'm probably one of the biggest XM8 critics on this site. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 17:12, 23 November 2012 (EST)

I was just now watching the Cinema commercial on YouTube (hey, if there's one thing IW and Treyarch can do right, it's advertise their games) and caught this.

[[File:XM8 Blops 2.jpg|thumb|none|300px]]

This "prop" is ejecting a spent casing, which looks legit enough, and the muzzle flash doesn't look like CGI, either (CGI muzzle flashes tend to be quite distinguishable from the real thing, from my TV viewing experience). In addition, you can very faintly make out what looks like a hinge where the stock and receiver connect. Could it be a dressed up G36 rather than a prop? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:59, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:Yeah, I think that bulky carry handle is there to cover up a real G36 carry handle underneath, and the magwell looks right for a G36 and wrong for an XM8. Though, um...Unless the bottom of the trigger guard is missing, how can he pull the trigger with his finger there? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:07, 26 November 2012 (EST)

::Another G36 indicator is that the stock is side folding. On the XM8 it is only collapsible. A more accurate XM8 mock up based on a G36 can be seen in [[XXX:_State_of_the_Union#.28Fake.29_Heckler_.26_Koch_XM8|XXX: State of the Union]]. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 09:35, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:::Interestingly the in-game weapon also has a G36-style magwell. Might have used the dressed-up prop as a reference, even. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:07, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:::Strike what I typed previously in this space, I misread Commando's comment and thought he was citing a ''lack'' of a folding stock on the M8A1 mock up. My bad. Since there seems to be a consensus, I'm going to change the XM8 prop entry for the Cinema trailer to state that it's a G36 (probably a K, judging by the barrel length and exposed gas block) dressed up as an XM8. The one used in the ''Surprise'' trailer looks more like the in-game model, so I'm inclined to say that one ''is'' a prop. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 18:23, 26 November 2012 (EST)

== Future Warfare ==
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-074340.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070746.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-065949.jpg

The game is set in near future, rumours say it's in 2027. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

That's what we've been needing. More future crap. ~ACE

Call Of Recon: Ghost Ops --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Well, I've given up on the series now that being on top of five grenades when they go off doesn't kill people.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

:Givern how CoD does with real weapons, watching them making up weapons should be eight kinds of hilarious. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:10, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

its been confirmed to be set in the year 2025,i would imagine a mixture of real weapons,and Treyarch-created mashups will be included[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

As long as we get (have) to shoot hundreds of rounds full auto at each quadrupedal robot it will apparently be awesome. I hope bullets have no effect on enemies until they suddenly die also. ~ACE

:I don't know, as long as the robots acknowledge being hit, a linebreaker enemy that stops you getting bogged down in one place can be good. ''Resistance: Fall of Man'' had enemies which would use their superior hitpoints (3+ headshots on normal for grunts with the basic rifles) to advance under fire while firing from the hip, which meant they ''didn't'' have to spam grenades at you constantly to stop you staying in one place (also they had Steelheads with guns that shot through walls to help them with that). It actually made the firefights rather more interesting than the headshot = dead standard. Though they at least reacted to being shot (flinched but kept running), it wasn't like ''STALKER'' where enemies were either alive or dead and wouldn't acknowledge any state in between (which in ''Clear Sky'' where they jacked up Bloodsucker HP ridiculously meant you weren't actually sure you were even hurting them).

:In general enemy variety is a huge weakness for modern shooters, since almost everything is 'man with gun.' If they do this ''right'' it could actually have far more varied firefights. Or they'll just have it invincible until you find the glowing rocket launcher Private Dies In An Inconvenient Place dropped, which seems more likely all things considered. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

::Dual wielding Javelins. ~ACE

== Come On ==

There is NOTHING warranting a page for this yet. All of you fanboys need to drop your cocks and have a little patience. Would any IMFDB mods put up with this for any other page or project with the same amount of leaked content, being 1, maybe 2 usable pictures? No way; this whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If there's nothing concrete worth putting on the main page, stick to the Treyarch forums. It's insane how quickly the COD community jumped onto it on IMFDB. It's fucking preposterous to discuss ONE PICTURE for a WHOLE GAME THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED YET. Please, fanboys, calm down, and don't get ahead of yourselves. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 16:38, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Finally someone who agrees with me. --[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I can't disagree [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:18, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

The game has been officially announced, there are several pictures on CallofDuty.com --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:47, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Plus, a trailer is coming out today [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:29, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Trailer released, and I can already see inclusions in the form of the M249. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 19:21, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Weapon Spots ==

Weapon spots from the trailer that I found in the new trailer: at 0:30 there is a M134 Minigun (future-ized) mounted on a four legged combat drone, 0:43 there is a tank drone that appears to have a Metal Storm weapon mounted on its left (our right), 1:09 there is a future pistol (seems unrelated to any real world firearm), 1:11 there is a future-ized XM8, 1:18 there is an M16 (which model can't tell though length suggest it is a full length barrel and has 20 round magazine), 1:27 there what appears to be an M249 SAW (or M240), 1:31 there is a soldier with a balaclava firing a bullpup short barreled weapon that bears resemblance to the QBZ-95, at 1:31 or 1:32 (very easy to miss) there is a soldier being blown away holding an AK variant and by the looks of the handguard and flash hider it is an AN-94, at 1:34 in horseback solders are armed with WWII bolt action rifles, at 1:36 the technical is armed with a Dshk hmg, 1:44 hard to make out but rider on the right has an AK pattern weapon, likely an AK-47 since it looks like the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, 1:48 unknown shotgun. That's all I found for now. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 21:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:I have an intuition that the M16 might (and I have empathize this, ''might'') be an A1 variant or a faux XM16 judging solely from silhouette of the upper receiver. The SAW apparently has an Mk 48 Mod 1 styled heat shield and handguard but that doesn't really mean anything, considering how the franchise loves to mix and match different variants. Weapon at 1:32, on the other hand, is ''definitely'' an AN-94. At least in aesthetic terms.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:03, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:: Isn't it "Kriss USA" instead of "TDI" now?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 08:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Possibly, but KRISS ALLCAPS TACTICOOL ARMS is a stupid title and they were TDI first. They only changed it because they've belatedly discovered the mil-spec subgun market is a ghost town if you're not an MP5 and they're only ever going to sell Vectors to mall ninjas. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

==Designated Arguing/Complaining Area==
Before this discussion page turns to chaos like all the other CoD talk pages, let's open up a designated complaint zone. I know many people want to offer their negative opinions about the game, so if you don't have any real discussion topics please post in subheadings here. Hopefully this will allow people who want to actually discuss the game rather than arguing or whining to avoid these comments and have an actual discussion.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

===What is this going to be like===
I have looked at the trailer several times. This is how I think the games success is going to be. A: It will be a huge hit and sell millions of copies like all other COD games or B: It is going to be a complete and total disaster and there will never be another COD game made again in our lifetimes. I find from what I learned from the plot line details that has been released that it is going to feature what the first Black Ops did, except that the flashbacks will be set in the 1980's and the present 2025. I am wondering how Treyarch is going to do that. This will be a very curious COD game that I will be wondering about UNTIL it comes out.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 21:58, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

===Wow...===
I'll start off by saying the obvious- this game looks stupid. I mean, why jump from the 60's to the 2020's? I could see the futuristic idea that they were trying for, but this looks like a Ghost Recon rip-off. I have just lost what little respect I had for Treyarch. As more details become availiable, I might change my mind, but first impressions are not good. As with any game, if it is fun I will play it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

I've lost respect for the Call of Duty franchise after Infinity Ward broke up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

After at least one failed Soviet aggression in the late 60s, failed invasion of the Eastcoast US, ''failed'' (third time's the charm, right?) invasion of continental Europe within the last three games alone, you'd think the US at least would just get used to getting attacked on a major scale by this point.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:09, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:Well they have, it's pretty clear from MW2 that Russia tries to nuke the US so often in this universe that they didn't even bother with a counter-launch since that would just encourage them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:11, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I can't believe how generic they managed to make their new take on the series. Evil robots, mechs on four legs and choppers with unnecesserly many features. It's basically the same as every futuristic game. On top of it the game looks awful, name doesn't make sense, it looks more over-the-top than MW3. Could Treyarch have mistaken May 1 for April 1? This either is a joke, or will become one.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 05:46, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

What the hell were Treyarch thinking? I was seriously hoping too see what happened to Hudson, Weaver and Mason in Operation Charybdis and maybe if we would get to see how Price started his career. It is often better to go back to basics than too go forward complications. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
:What made you so sure that Price was going to be in this game?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:45, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:Modern Warfare is set in a different continuity, and they even wanted to spin it off into an entirely separate franchise. The Call of Duty label was stuck on by Activision as a way of marketing it. Price won't be appearing because he doesn't exist. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:From what I've read on CoD wiki and heard, 1/3 of the game will take place in the 80s and the rest in 2025--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 09:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

: @ The Wierd It - the 'intel' at the ending of the final story mission of Black Ops suggest that Mason is being hunted by an SAS team in South Africa lead by a young operative called 'Jonathan' which many people have taken to mean a very young Captain Price [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::I think it's very unlikely that they'll have any crossovers between the WaW/BO and MW universes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:47, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
::I know that. I'm wondering where the leap in logic came that took people from one of the more common first names in the English language to "this is obviously meant to be Price". [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:36, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well, it's positively rational compared to the kind of logical gymnastics that some rumour threads get. "I performed a series of random mathematical actions on this Valve press release and made the number 3! Episode 3 confirmed!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:59, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
The first thing I thought when I saw the trailer was that this game was CoD attempting to piggyback on the whole idea of Metal Gear Solid 4. Then I saw the horse sequences and realized I was actually watching an Uncharted 3 trailer. --[[User:K|K]] 19:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I honestly like the way it's going now. I liked Black Ops better than Modern Warfare because it went to a setting not commonly covered (especially in big-budget titles) and had some more interesting segments than just running through an urban environment shooting dozens of AK-toting terrorists or Russians. I'm interested in seeing how Black Ops II progresses now that they're able to create their own technology (no worries of anachronisms or errors). It's a refreshing change of pace from generic World War II and modern day "realistic" shooters. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

@ The Wierd It - Ok mate, fair enough I might have jumped the gun. But on what we know from the intel in Black Ops and the character of Price in the MW franchise, ("promising SAS solider named Jonathan" also referred to as Price in the french Black Ops) - basing it on that knowledge, see why I jumped the gun? However, they brought Woods back for this one, when we were all sure he was dead, what's too say a very young Price won't be featuring in this game? [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

:I still love COD4, great game, but now I refuse to play anything after it. I did play through MW3's story to see the ending, and the MW series' ''story'' is pretty good, but the 2 and 3's gameplay is soooooo bad. In every single mission except one, you start with a reflex sight on your gun in MW3. The other mission you have a pistol. I'm gonna follow this page just to see how bad they can make it. I find it really funny how Halo and Mass Effect have guns (and tech) that are more realistic than MW2/BO/MW3/BO2. Hell, not just more realistic, Halo and ME's weapons ''actually make sense''. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:23, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

It looks like the US got some help from the Combine with those 4 propeller gunships they have. Maybe we might see an AR1 or a Strider? :D [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:12, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

===My two cents on the matter===
Ok... well, first off, I'll admit that I am a fan of CoD. But from the first glance of this trailer, I think that Activision needs it's old management back, and fire the current management along with Robert Kotick.

Seriously Robert? This is what Black Ops II is going to be? A pseudo-futuristic first person shooter with player-driven choices thrown into the mix?

I was expecting that the next Call of Duty was going to be the inevitable Black Ops II (and if not that, then maybe something different for a change like making the game about a war that many people have forgotten about, like World War I or the Korean War, cause World War II and Vietnam get WAY too much attention). but I was expecting it to dive into details about Black Ops operations in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s when the United States got involved in conflicts during those years AFTER the Vietnam war (a.k.a., Grenada, Panama, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Gulf War I, Bosnian conflicts, etc.). But really, THIS is the best idea that your workers came up with? Some cyberwar between China and the United States?

Ok, from what I've read, there will be some throwbacks to the 1980s in this game, but adding in player-driven choices which affect the outcome of the game is a bad idea. I play Call of Duty for mindless entertainment and for shooting things, not to play over and over for making different moral decisions every time to get all the endings of the game! If I wanted a first person shooter with that theme, I'd go play Fallout 3. (Speaking of which, do you think we're really that stupid to notice that you guys stole "The Vault" name?)
: A video game uses the word "Vault" to refer to a location. Must have been stolen from Fallout, since they invented....the English language? [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

As for the weapons... you guys do realize that MANY of these weapons are either still on the drawing board, in the prototype stages, canceled (*cough* XM8 *cough*), or being tested in LIMITED numbers, and that we might not be seeing ANY of them in any future war by the year 2025... right?

it isn't even an xm8, i don't know how it could be a wrong choice for a gun if the gun itself isn't actually a real concept of any kind, its just a futuristic-looking gun designed by treyarch, and what would firing bobby kotick actually do it wouldn't change any of the games because he doesn't make any desicions regarding them, he worries about the money side e.g. the budget, the advertisement.
also the creators of fallout didn't actually invent the word vault so i don't really know what the pointless rant was for.--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 02:48, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

In the game it's called an M8A1. It's definitely the XM8. It's Treyarch doing what they do. Being creative with things that shouldn't have creativity added. [[User:DJCDavisDubstep|DJCDavisDubstep]] 16:25, 10 July 2012 (PDT)

Well... maybe I might give this game a chance when it comes out. But seriously, if this is what all future Call of Duty games are going to follow from this point onward, then I will stick with the older ones instead. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 22:20, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

Hey, thanks to the video game industry, one would think that there may be a chance that the project will get cancelled like many games before it... unfortunately since the Call Of Duty franchise pops out games like a mother rabbit the future seems bleak...
--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 01:44, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure the game will still have all the mindless shooter nonsense that makes them millions and spawns dozens of poor imitations, but the addition of branching storylines and sandbox gameplay at least makes things more interesting. The Call of Duty formula stagnated with Modern Warfare 2, as it showed that it was little more than repeating the same basic formula with minor changes that add less new content than the average DLC pack. Black Ops at least tried to break from the mold a bit with the helicopter sequences (a throwback to the old games' vehicle segments) and the protagonist not suddenly losing his voice when you look through his eyes. I'm proud of Treyarch for trying to actually do something different and make an interesting game instead of following Infinity Ward and Activision's lead and just making a clone of Black Ops with some new weapons and tweaking the multiplayer. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

== M16A1? ==

Link to image

(403 error)

also the futuristic M4: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120502191412/callofduty/images/5/53/20120502-084241.jpg

The 'futuristic' M4 in the link above appears to be based upon the GR4 G26 airsoft rifle manufactured by Guay & Guay. Shown here for comparison: http://www.titano-shopping.com/immagini/Prodotti/Big/GR4_G26_DST

Yes it looks like that... It's not the first time CoD takes from airosft the looks for the guns

I wouldn't be surprised if they just used that futuristic looking gun for the photoshoot for the poster and it doesn't appear at all in the game itself. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:32, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

All those links are broken. Also I saw the recent trailer and the sillohuotte images of the M16 does look like an A1 from the handguard but the pop up trailer on gametrailers.com called it a classic M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:51, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

:Classic? It was an M4 before there were any M4s. That's a hipster M4 if there ever was one... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:43, 5 May 2012 (CDT)

Speaking of the M16A1, why are we given the A1 in the game. The story mission where the weapon was recommended took place in 1989 in Panama. The standard mag looks like a 20 rounder and it was called the A1. By the 80s, the US Army had already started using 30 round mags and replaced the A1 with the A2. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:33, 14 November 2012 (EST)

I'm surprised they didn't bring back the CAR-15 or whatever that was in the first game [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:39, 15 November 2012 (EST)

== Rename ==

Shouldn't the page be renamed to "Call of Duty: Black Ops II". With the Roman numerals, because that's what all official material lists it as. - [[User:1morey]] May 5, 2012 8:59 AM (EST)

:Naw, since that would put it out of order when they inevitably make Black Ops 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:08, 6 May 2012 (CDT)

::A note could be made in the first paragraph though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:36, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

::Or the page could simply be named correctly. Who care if the games aren't listed in order of release. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 14:17, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

== AK variant during horse scene ==

Recently revealed production images of Black Ops 2 not only show how seriously Treyarch is taking the precise animation of horses but also that the AK variants they are carrying are actually mo-capped TOYS:
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2012/05/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-II-Horse-Motion-Capture-2.jpg

:Ha, that's the most obvious airsoft horse I've ever seen. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:40, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

== Bulldog Assault Rifle ==

Trailer from BO2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr0Z3RsOmlo

looks like the assault rifle from distric 9 use by the bad guys

:Looks like a futuristic QB rifle variant to me.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 06:34, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

::The name "Type 25" has been mentioned. Could that be it?

:::Most likely is. In fact, it almost definitely is, but we can't actually confirm that until the game comes out. Also, remember to sign your posts. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 05:46, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Preview ==

A preview mentions the Type 95 and Keltec KSG by name. Will wait for screens.
http://www.nowgamer.com/xbox-360/xbox-360-previews/1388343/black_ops_2_campaign_eyeson_with_two_levels_protect_potus_singapore.html

Well hopefully it's the real Type 95 and not the Type 97 misnamed [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Black Ops 2 Behind the Scenes E3 trailer ==

The new Behind the Scenes BO2 trailer released at E3 shows a couple of guns, most notably a sniper rifle at 3:18
Link to trailer: http://youtu(dot)be/GElKpJLvKLc
:2:08, what looks like a Galil SAR, 2:41, possible MM1 grenade launcher [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 05:37, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

In another behind the scenes trailer, there's a KRISS Vector.--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 15:03, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== There's a reason the Vector is called a K10 ==

Apparently, at SHOT Show 2011, a newer, improved, slightly more compact variant of the Vector with a telescoping stock was revealed, called the K10.
Here's the source:
:http://www.defensereview.com/kriss-k10-super-v-vector-xsmg-submachine-gun-smg-product-improvedupgraded-multi-caliber-subgun-for-special-operations-forces-sof-and-close-quarters-battle-cqb-applications-shot-show-2011-phot/

It does look slightly different from the Vector, though:
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_1.jpg
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_2.jpg
--[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:45, 6 July 2012 (PST)

== LAPD Shotgun ==

I don't really think that we can call the fact that the LAPD officers are using the KSG incorrect, since the game takes place in the future. Apparently in the time the game takes place, we will have flying, fighting robots, so it's not too hard to imagine that the LAPD could have switched shotguns. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:02, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, that's what I was thinking. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:48, 6 July 2012 (PST)

::Well after talking to some cops, it really depends on the department to say what an officer can have in his car. A lot can get their own personal shotguns in their car after qualifying with it. Not sure about a KSG, but it's possible if approved [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:22, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Yeah, it would probably be even more likely to be in use since the game takes place in the future. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:25, 10 July 2012 (PST)

== The Unknown Shotgun ==

The unknown shotgun is actually the Storm PSR (the ridiculous X-Ray Railgun thing), if you look closely at Harper's vest the white dot is from the scope, and it's also been stated by Treyarch that the Storm PSR has three barrels.... --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 21:20, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

== Gameplay footage ==

Well folks, here's a video from E3 showcasing the extended gameplay of Black Ops 2, and what might be expected in the game when it's released: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTtsn2Srm3E] --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 in segment taking place in the 80's? ==

It seems to me that part of the trailer the AN-94 appears in takes place in one of the 80's segments of the game. I shouldn't be surprised, but seriously, this seems like an even bigger anachronism than usual, even though it's not. Anyone else thinking the same? --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 2:57, 10 July 2012 (PST)

:You never know just because it was seen in the desert doesn't mean its in the 80's segment of the game.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

::That's not what I meant, I just meant if it was part of the main 2025 story line of the game, there probably would have been '''some''' kind of future technology. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 3:14, 10 July 2012 (PST)

Oh yeah, it'll be anachronistic, no doubts there. This is Treyarch, after all. Do you think you'll be seeing anything (non-explosive) from the 20th Century in the future setting? I don't.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:28, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I have no doubt there'll be TONS of anachronisms in the 80's parts. I think the QBZ-97 was in the future part, so that's one thing from the 20th century in the future setting. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:41, 10 July 2012 (PST)

::I did not see it, are you talking about the fictional Type 25, or did i miss it?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:46, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Go on the page, there'll be a QBZ-97, and then it'll say "Type 25" somewhere else on the page. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 5:24, 10 July 2012 (PST)

==SCAR-L :)==

http://k31.kn3.net/D8EA00866.png

Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QP3_8y8uzk

:I'm afraid the picture link doesn't work, but the rifle that appears 1:45 is most definitely a SCAR-H. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:05, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

== IMFDB's Fault ==

Does anyone think that the fact that this game takes place in the future is partly our (IMFDB's users) fault. I bet someone working for Treyarch saw the IMFDB page for Black Ops and how the anachronistic guns are criticized, and thought, "We're anachronistic, are we? Well let's see about being anachronistic when the game takes place over a decade in the future!" --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:46, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

That's.... something to think about for awhile and if they did then either 3arc will be more accurate with the guns or make the guns worst than the first time.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 12:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I don't know why it's such a big deal to everyone, just treat the "game" as a "game" and play it; there are too many over-opinionated comments with the words I DON'T LIKE IT, WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE IT LIKE I WANTED IT!!! WAAAAHHH
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 16:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

To be fair you do know where you are right? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 17:12, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Nah, I highly doubt that anyone at Treyarch or Activision has taken the time to read up about their videogames being featured on this site, and the legit or unnecessary complaints people have made about their past games. IMFDB has been a growing name in the film industry for a while now and this site is often browsed and looked into by those who have made or acted in the films featured on here and many of the administrators (the ones who work in the industry) can vouch for that. But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

You do realize that I meant this as a joke, right? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:07, 21 July 2012 (CDT)

"But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that."

I see where you're getting at, but I want to make a point. I was hoping for a bunch of weapons to be in CoJ 3. And more than a handful of them were in the game (or a variant of the weapon). Just to make this clear, I am an admin for the CoJ Wiki, and we have connections to Techland. And I had posted links to the IMFDB CoJ pages on the fan page for CoJ on Facebook (Which Techland frequents).
I was hoping for a Skorpion, Benelli M4, SW Model 29, FN FAL, M72 LAW, and FN Five-seveN. They were in the game.
I was hoping for a Uzi (Instead, a Mini Uzi), A Sig-Sauer (Instead a SIG Mosquito), Remington 700 ( Instead a Remington M24), MP5 variant (The game had a MP5A2), AR-15 variant (The game had a HK416), Mossberg 500 variant (The game had a Mossberg 500A Field Gun). Now I'm not saying Techland read the page and said "Ph hey, this 1morey guy wants to see these weapons, let's answer his request." That's not what I am saying at all, but I wouldn't doubt they read the page, and used the list as "inspiration". Another user had wanted a Steyr AUG A3. That was a cut weapon.

Anyways, back on topic. I don't doubt some video game companies use this site as inspiration, but if I had to pick one, I would say Infinity Ward, EA, and Treyarch probably don't look at this site at all, I think they just watch a bunch of movies, or see what other games have. - [[User:1morey]] August 7, 2012 3:10 PM (EST)
I mean if this isn't a coincidence, I don't know what is.

== Multiplayer Reveal Trailer ==

The new trailer for the multiplayer of BO2 just went up, showing a plethora of new weapons: -killerkirill, 19:13 GMT, 07/08/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrOpWYsp3L8&feature=g-u-u

:Well, the good thing at least is that the main page will be considerably shorter and easier to maintain. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 14:28, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Taurus Raging Bull/Dan Wesson???, barrett/steyr sniper?/ Mechem NTW?, SRM Arms Model 1212/1216?, Remington MSR? and lots, lots more. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:04, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

This game is going to be worse than Crysis for people coming up with contrived "hybrid" explanations for the guns. That shotgun does look pretty close to a SRM Arms Model 1216 though, even looks like the player is correctly rotating the magazine very 4 shots, never thought I would see that in a game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:25, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

i have played it safe and included the dsr-50 sniper rifle in the page, source= http://mp1st.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Screen-Shot-2012-08-07-at-1.58.00-PM-600x331.png

yellow sniper looks like the Remington MSR, an Ashbury ASW338LM, or an FN SCAR - SSR Mk.20 Mod.0 / Sniper Support Rifle with modifications including bolt action.

--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 23:30, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Looking through screenshots in this article: [url=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/362018/39-black-ops-2-multiplayer-screens-from-the-trailer/?page=1#top_banner] 
-LSAT LMG 
-AN-94 
-QCW-05 known as "Chicom QCB" 
-Kriss K-10 
-H&K XM8 is known as the "M8A1", this is very clearly seen in screencap 17. 
-"Ballista" bolt-action sniper in screencap 18- has an extremely similar first-person appearance to BF3's [[MKEK JNG-90]] 
-FN Mk.48 
-"PDW-5.7" in screencap 12, quite likely a [[P90]] variant, it looks like one, 50 round mag, plus the P90 is a PDW in 5.7 mm. Seen in pic 32 in 3rd person. 
-[[SRM Arms 1200 Series Shotguns|M1216 Shotgun]] 
-Taurus Raging Bull in screencap 12- distinctive sights and red backstrap. 
-Unknown in screencap 20 
-Screencap 25 is possibly also the "Ballista"? Looks similar but too small. 
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 13:13, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

It's the FN Ballista, a new-ish rifle designed to compete with the MSR--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 13:37, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

:Using steel torsion bar action and firing a 7.62mm log? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:51, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

::Thanks Recon42, I hadn't heard of the FN Ballista before. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 16:15, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
::: For future reference: [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF076&gid=FNG005 FNH USA's page on the Ballista].[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:36, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
::: [[:File:FNBallista.jpg|Image uploaded and ready for use.]] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:43, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
This made me remember an interesting thing. I read Treyarch has said there will be no 1980's weapons in multiplayer, but yet the AN-94 is there. Is the information wrong or will the AN-94 not feature in the 80's?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 11:49, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

So, Treyarch is copying BF3 and letting you use iron sights on the sniper rifles, maybe that means they can actually be used to kill people in this one, since long ranged scope rifles were never very practical in the tiny maps of the COD series. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:40, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

even though call of duty: world at war had unscoped sniper rifles and also, Battlefield copied call of duty with ELITE/PREMIUM service and Spec-Ops mode yet this doesn't help anyone. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 15:18, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

I'm not saying that BF doesn't copy COD, it does, I know that and everybody else knows that. I wasn't saying , "BF is better than COD, because BF is original." The only points I was trying to make was that due to the popularity of non-scoped sniper rifles in BF3, 3arc decided to add this feature and that sniper rifle were not useful in COD multiplayer. WAW didn't really have unscoped sniper rifles, they were infantry rifles that you could mount a scope on, it's the equivalent of putting a sniper scope on an assault rifle in a game that takes place in modern times. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:09, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

== Raging Judge model ==

I think the Raging Judge that they are basing their model on based on is this one:
[[File:Taurus Raging Judge XXVII.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Taurus Raging Judge - 28 gauge]]
This is chambered in 28 gauge shotshells (which is 13.97mm or .550in for those wondering) and was unveiled in 2011 but was blocked (for valid reasons in my opinion) by the BATFE so it never entered production. Despite this, the fact that the gun in the game has a five round unfluted cylinder as opposed to the 6 round fluted cylinder on the .454 production model indicates that this was their source material. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:42, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:So, um...Were they trying to beat the Maadi-Griffin in the stupid handgun cartridge arms race? I'm calling it, someone's going to have made a handgun that fires 20mm Hispano by 2020. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::"A Taurus Raging Judge, identifiable by the red stripe along the handle..." Doesn't the [[Taurus Raging Bull]] have the same stripe on the grips? Is there anything else to prove that this is a Raging Judge and not a Raging Bull? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:08, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:::It does also say "Raging Judge" in the bottom right corner of the HUD. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:21, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::::Well, that would do it then. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:24, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Weapons once the game is released ==

Once the game is released, and after a few days, the page is mostly completed, should we mention for the weapons which ones are based on the actual weapons, and which ones are just "futuristic" versions of the weapon. Anyone get what I'm saying.

Like the Chicom QCB, is that really a QCW-05, or is that a futuristic gun modeled after the QCW-05? I figure the TDI Kard is a TDI Kard, because it does't really need mocked up that much, since the real-life weapon looks futuristic already. - [[User:1morey]] August 14, 2012 12:03 PM (EST)

== Weapon selection video ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fuba3mPotE

DSR-50 | SVU | Ballista

fictional M1216 | Saiga 12 | Remington M870 RCS

LSAT | QBB-95 | Mk48

Skorpion EVO A3

KARD | FNP-45 Tactical | Taurus | futurised M93R

M8A1 | SMR (futurised AUGA3?) | futurised Type 95 | SA58 | SIG556 | SCAR-H | AN-94

Milkor MGL | futurised Stinger | handheld GAU-19/A

A-10 | Commanche [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 04:53, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== B23-R Nomenclature ==

Could B23-R stand for " Beretta 2023 Raffica"? It's very similar to other Beretta pistols, so I guess that's a reasonable guess [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:42, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:I don't think so, as to me I think it is a 1911 based pistol. The shaoe of the rear of the slide, the hammer and the trigger look very 1911-ish to me. Also, I just want to point out that the comment about the two ejection ports makes absolutely no sense. First off, I don't think it is a second ejection port, but is simply where the top of the slide has been removed showing the exposed barrel (think the Beretta 92 but with a bridge in front of the ejection area). Secondly, how would having an ejection port in front of another make it possible to eject the cartridges out the other side? The slide would have to travel back further to line the chamber up with this second ejection port for one thing which I can't see being possible. The layout of this gun is pretty standard so I don't think it will be doing anything crazy, and regardless this feature would have absolutely no utility or point in a game.

== M249 SAW and MK48 are the same ==

Look at the gas regulator plug of the so called M249 SAW. It is clearly from an Mk 48. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:17, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== Can we PLEASE change it? ==

Could we please get rid of the two ejection ports bullshit from the B23-R section of the page? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 17:45, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

:If you want to change it, then change it. I doubt anyone is going to argue with you. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:59, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

::Hm, looks like someone already did. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 18:37, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 ==
I like the comment under the pic of the AN-94 reloading that says it has 5.56 rounds in the mag, so it could be a fictional export version. It could be, OR more reasonably, the developers decided to ignore the calibers and modeled the same cartridges in all of the assault rifles' magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:51, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
:It's the later. And even if it happens to be the former, I doubt they would care enough to give an explanation ingame. But they stopped caring about these 'tiny details' a long time ago.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:52, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
::Yeah, it seems they are so many overspeculations on this page, like the how it says the B-23 is possibly a Beretta. Why, because it has the letter B, it doesn't really look like any Beretta design. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:43, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
:::To be honest, in my opinion the 'B23R' doesn't actually resemble, outside of it's name, any real specific pistol. It's just a chimera of different futuristic parts that fulfills the same gameplay niche as the Beretta 93R from the previous titles.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 15:00, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
::::Sorry about that comment, I noticed the rounds were 5x56MM NATO. The part about it being an export version was unnecessary for me to write, it's much more reasonable that it's just lack of detail by the developers.
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 15:54, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

== Beta leak ==

I know it can't be used on the main page, but for those who are planning on playing the game and are curious about the weapons, 7 new ones were found in the leaked beta build, [http://videobam.com/RHFxv here's a video of them.] --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] ([[User talk:Ghostdigga|talk]]) 21:20, 18 September 2012 (EDT)

Ahh, the return of select-fire. Missed it from the original COD and the United Offensive expansion. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 07:52, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Text confirms that the Taurus does actually fire the 28 gauge shotgun shells it is meant to. This surprises me, I assumed they just based the model on the wrong image. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:38, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

m27 iar, scar type lmg, and i would say the rpg was airtronic due to this pic:
look at the solider on the left

http://cdn.medialib.oxm.co.uk/screens/screenshot_30711.jpg
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] ([[User talk:Pistolpete|talk]]) 09:47, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

::Five-seveN, MTAR, M27 and FN HAMR spotted. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 09:17, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/120918a.jpg

== H&K m27 ==

On the cod wikia i found the m27 i know the hk416 m27 variant so i identified it as the actual m27 no real modification to make it look futuristic their calling it an assault rifle (facepalm) there's a picture on there I don't know to upload pictures on here though.--[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 18:45, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:Eh, if they're using an M27 with a 30-rounder and calling it an AR I wouldn't really call that wrong per se, since the M27 is only a SAW because the USMC is issuing it as one (much like the QJY-88 is issued as a GPMG even though it's actually an LMG). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:00, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
::Yeah, I agree, and most Marines that were issued it are using it as an AR, apparently, because it essentially is. Also, person above Evil Tim, please sign your name by pressing the signature button at the top or putting four of this: ~ after your name. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 10:18, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
::: Yeah sorry i need to remember that i know how to do just forgot but i also facepalmed but its not a 30 round capacity i found that out it appears to be but its going to have a 50 round capacity granted there are 50 round AR mags but still combined with extended clip and all that other COD BS it might as well be an LMG. --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 18:45, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
:::: New footage of the m27 in the zombies gameplay trailer on top on a bus also new footage of the m1216 and the pdw 57 and what appear to be the tar 21 or QBZ-97 in the video --[[User:Blueboy1600|Blueboy1600]] ([[User talk:Blueboy1600|talk]]) 20:25, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:The M27 is not an assault rifle. It is a Squad Automatic Weapon, which can be considered as a sub-category of the machine gun group. Magazine size has nothing to do with its classification. The Minimi or RPK will not be "denoted" to an assault rifle is you use it with a 30-round STANAG/AK magazine. The M27 is the same as the FN HAMR - which is listed as a MG.... [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 05:29, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
::The thing is SAW is a weapon role, not a weapon type; if you issued the M1911 to squad support gunners it would be a SAW (it would just be a terrible one). There is no mechanical reason to ''not'' call the M27 an assault rifle, just as there's no mechanical reason to not call the QJY-88 a light machine gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:56, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
:::You could argue that the M27 is optimised for the SAW role by supposedly having a heavier weight barrel, but as the weight increase is only something like 40g I think this is actually a myth. I believe the only physical difference between an HK416 D16.5RS and the M27 IAR are the handguard being 11" long rather than 9" which means that the bayonet lug is also a separate piece placed further forward on the barrel rather than the HK 416 which mounts the lug on the gas block, the bolt carrier has a captive firing pin retaining pin, the fire selector is ambidexterous and the bolt handle is ambidextrous (not double sided but can be switch sides at an armourer level). None of these modifications are what I would deem to be SAW modifications, with the possible exception of the longer handguard allowing a separate vertical grip and bipod to be used more easily, so i you were classifying the weapon on its characteristics rather than role I would put it as an AR. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:28, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
:Yeah.... also it looks like it has a combined bayonet lug / gas block and some sort of step in the barrel, so I would say that it is not even a real M27 but a HK416. Now *that* should definitely go to the rifles. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 07:07, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
::Are there any images out yet of it apart from the gear screen image on the COD Wiki? From that image it also looks like it has the shorter 9" handguard used on the standard HK416 rifles. Barrel is throwing me a bit as it looks like it might have the M4 profile barrel that is on the 14.5" rifles, but in terms of length it looks like it is a 16.5" barrel which should be straight. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 08:20, 27 September 2012 (EDT)

What seems odd to me is how a heavy assault rifle/light machine gun has higher mobility than others in it's class [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] ([[User talk:Gonzaga|talk]]) 19:34, 29 September 2012 (EDT)

I found this odd too, the M27 IAR would be heavier and hence more stable in automatic fire than the other ARs, not lighter/better mobility. The barrel is somewhat confusing, it looks to be shaped after a stepped AR-15 carbine barrel but too long.
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 15:50, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

== FN HAMR ==

Along the same lines as the M27, I think the "FN HAMR" is actually just a regular SCAR that they are mis-naming. The main difference between the regular SCAR and the HAMR is the fact that the lower handguard on the HAMR is deeper to accommodate the gubbins that switches the gun from closed bolt to open bolt when the barrel gets hot. The game gun has the same lower handguard as on a regular scar, with the bottom of the rail being at the same height as the bottom of the front push pin. Also the flash hider is not the one used on the HAMR, but is instead the one from a SCAR-H. If it is the case that this a regular SCAR, do we put it in the AR category because that is what it is? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 06:56, 1 October 2012 (EDT)
:Yes, and now that you mention it also has the SCAR-like vent holes.I am gonna change it to SCAR-L and the M27 to HK416 too. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 07:57, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

==Pointless weapon stats==
Has anyone noticed how pointless the stats are in the COD series? Seriously these stats are so generic and so open ended to interpretation that I find it hard to compare one gun to the other. In fact I have seen two guns on the roster here alone, one of which has better stats in terms of "blocks" than the other so why would I bother using the other weapon? On top of that they dont seem to match weapon caliber to damage. Ex a MP5 should be the same damage as a Glock 17 but they arent because the Glock is a pistol and the MP5 is a SMG (I know these arent in this game just bare with me). That and why is it that from a distance (straying off topic I know) shotgun pellets seem to disintegrate completely? I love these games but Furry they need better gun designers to look into this--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 18:44, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

The weapon stats have an alarming tendency of being BLATANT LIES. Denkirson runs a xanga page with weapon stats from all the COD games since the first Modern Warfare, and noted how the stat bars in that game were occasionally inaccurate/vague (G36 being more accurate than the M4. The G36 simply has less sight sway, and is not necessarily more accurate) or outright lying (G36 being more powerful than the M4. This is untrue. Both guns have the same 30max-20min damage values.) --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 20:10, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

@HashiriyaR32, not only that, but I also hated how for some reason for example in COD4 how the M9 has less damage than the MP5, while they are both chambered in the same cartridge! I feel that videogames should use the caliber of the weapon to help define stats. For example the damage and range would be the same across all weapon types (because of the cartridge) but should defer in magazine size, recoil, accuracy, and reload speed. Its reasons like this why handguns are so underused in multiplayer--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 15:26, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

:While "damage" can never be perfectly done in games, [[Battlefield 3]]'s weapon damages are all based of calibre. It's still a game and not a simulator, but it's one of the best out there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:31, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

:@Alex T Snow, yeah, forgot about that, honestly havent played BF3 in a while but as memory serves it is more "realistic" with its weapons.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 16:09, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

::Just FYI, an M9 should cause less "damage" than an MP5. An MP5 has a longer barrel meaning that it generates a higher muzzle velocity and hence muzzle energy (which is the simplest analogue to damage). Some stats in these games make no sense, like weapons with the same barrel length and caliber having different damages, but in this particular case they got it broadly correct. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 16:40, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Just found a clear example of how the weapon stats are pointless. Under the sniper rifles the two in question are the DSR 50 and the XPR 50. It clearly shows that the DSR 50 has better stats in all categories compared to the XPR 50, so the question is if there is a weapon that clearly has better stats then why should I bother using the other weapon (FYI I am a COD veteran and know that sometimes these stats have to be tested out). Anyone have any opinions regarding this example? --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 15:17, 5 November 2012 (EST)
:That one's easy, the DSR-50 is a bolt action whereas the XPR-50 is semi-auto. I would also guess that the XPR-50 might have a large magazine based on how the weapon image looks. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 15:32, 5 November 2012 (EST)

: @Commando552, thanks for the info, I guess that does answer a little, but don't you think that they should have placed the ammunition capacity? Or at least make the distinctions more apparent? I mean J.C! I literally was using my pen on the screen trying to count each of the different squares.--[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 16:37, 5 November 2012 (EST)

If you see any references to rates of fire or kill ranges, just be aware that I'm getting them from this image. It's based on the day-1 patch. http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6712/bo2weaponchartv102.png --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 20:32, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:I'm fairly sure those are the multiplayer stats, since the SMR is still fullauto even if you don't choose select fire in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:31, 19 November 2012 (EST)

They are. The full-auto fire mode is the default for the SMR, FAL OSW, JS Type 05, SG556, and XM8 in single-player mode. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 10:09, 19 November 2012 (EST)

==Unknown Assault Rifle==
I was watching the launch trailer for the game and I caught this gun. Not sure what it is, so any help will be hot [[User:SeanWolf|SeanWolf]]
[[File:Call_Of_Duty_Black_Ops_2_Unknown_Rifle.jpg|none|500px]]

:That is a Saiga 12 shotgun (according to the game). - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 17:32, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

:Looks like an AK-12 to me http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Ak-12.jpg --[[User:Doom-generation|Doom-generation]] ([[User talk:Doom-generation|talk]]) 20:43, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

::And while it is indeed a super tactical, commando grade, hand made for the operators by the dwarves of Moria, it is just a Saiga with aftermarket HK style back sights and rails slapped on like there's no tomorrow. But that's hardly the most worrisome thing by now.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 02:30, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

::: Well, honestly, I think it would be dumber to have an elite operator using a plain weapon than a modified one like that. Especially since in this game you actually get to use side rails (with Laser Sights, though I think that's it), the 4-sides rails system doesn't seem exaggerated like in the past ones. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] ([[User talk:Gonzaga|talk]]) 21:09, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

::::Certainly so, although I am baffled by the decision as to why decided to make it look so 'westernized' (HK sight, rails more typical for aftermarket then modern military use... etc.) if it's a (I assume) firearm of the opposing force. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 08:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)

:::::Well Russian special forces (and police) have been known to put American aftermarket parts (Magpul stocks, EOTechs, stuff like that) on their weapons, but I don't think they'd go extreme with it though. Example: [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/0_848ce_a_11e_10bb_orig-tfb.jpeg M4 style stock] --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] ([[User talk:Ghostdigga|talk]]) 17:51, 5 November 2012 (EST)

== Live action trailer just released ==

So... now there's a live action trailer for Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, and it looks pretty impressive. It's got quite a few celebrities in it as well as a few YouTube personalities, along with some of the modern and futuristic weapons that will be seen in the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wIZp_E2CxQ

: Surprised FPS Russia didn't say 'Have nice day.'-Survivalkid21

==SPOILERS: Full walkthrough leaked==

As usual, Game Anyone has leaked a full walkthrough of the game. You can at least make a note of the weapons for later. Already seen a [[Hawk MM1 grenade launcher]], a full size [[MP5]], and the [[FAL]] is back and has a select fire option. http://www.gameanyone.com/video/505480 [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:36, 6 November 2012 (EST)
:Rifles Fal | Galil | M16A1 | "AK47" (AKM?)

:SMGs MP5A3 | AK74U | Uzi

:Shotties Olympia over and under | SPAS 12

:LMGs RPD | M60 | Minigun (same one as Vorkuta)

:Snipers M82A1 | SVD Dragunov

:Pistols 1911 | Makarov PM | Browning HP

:Launchers RPG7 | Stinger | MM1

I believe there is no Type 97 and only the fictional Type 25 in the game.[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] ([[User talk:Temp89|talk]]) 18:11, 7 November 2012 (EST)
** There's two different kinds of miniguns: there's the handheld minigun from the first Black Ops, and a new "Death Machine" that looks to be a futuristic one. The LSAT machine gun also has a digital ammo counter like the ''Aliens'' pulse rifle. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 18:36, 7 November 2012 (EST)

==No optics==

It's kinda straight that in the future, none of the characters around you carry their guns with any sort of attachments on their weapons. No optics, grips or anything. The flashback scenes in the 80s make sense because electronics were not big at the time. It was more strange still for us to be carrying a gun with a red dot sight [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:18, 13 November 2012 (EST)
:It's especially odd, considering all the weight and bulk of RIS, to put nothing on it at all. Hmm. Well this is CoD, after all. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 13:00, 14 November 2012 (EST)
Not always true. A lot of the other series have optics on certain of your buddies. Other points where we have the odd no optics are pick up weapons off some enemies. It's kinda weird that some of the mercs and the Chinese who uses more advanced weapons have no optics on their guns. When you play a different SEAL in the Strike missions, some times you start off with a gun that has no optic on it. This is the future, optics are the way of the future, especially for Spec Ops guys [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:30, 14 November 2012 (EST)

==Realism==

[[File:Blop2-Stinger-3.jpg|200px|thumb|left]]I know this is just a game that should be played for fun but... Come on, here we can see that the player just destroyed a tank with a FIM92 Stinger while riding a horse and he has 19 more Stingers on him. I'd like to see him with 19 launchers on his back. I think it beats any other nonsense in a game that has real firearms--[[User:Gr3gory|Gr3gory]] ([[User talk:Gr3gory|talk]]) 15:29, 15 November 2012 (EST)
:Of all the things that is kinda weird and stupid in this game, you pointed this out? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 16:25, 15 November 2012 (EST)

Actually, it's very realistic. Didn't you know that every real-life Black Ops operator has a small army of invisible midgets that carry all their extra ammo? --[[User:CommanderLukas|Commander Lukas]] ([[User talk:CommanderLukas|talk]]) 17:14, 15 November 2012 (EST)

Eh, certain kit configurations in MGS4 can result in Snake carrying three or more tons of rocket launchers. Naw, the one that really annoyed me was "fast mag" but "extended clip." Why did they have to get it right ''and'' wrong in the same game? The invisible long barrels and foregrips and unchanged high-cap magazines kinda irritated me, too. Still, nice to see they're finally trying to put the fire selectors in the right positions and have magazines with actual ammo in them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:14, 16 November 2012 (EST)

:Thinking about it, the most likely answer (especially in light of the awesomely silly commie land battleship at the end) is that it was originally intended as a future level with a futuristic multi-mode rocket launcher, but either they thought the horse was silly in the future or there weren't enough past levels, so it ended up being a magic dual-mode Stinger. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:38, 17 November 2012 (EST)

==AN94 missing magazines==

At the beginning of Achilles' Veil, when you walk slowly with Menendez, if you look around at all the AN94s, most of them don't have magazines attached. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:51, 15 November 2012 (EST)
:They may be acting in a ceremonial capacity, and are carrying their weapons unloaded. Only Menendez (and possibly the few soldiers outside with him) expected the American assault, and would have been prepared to fire on the VTOLs and Yemeni troops. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 03:17, 16 November 2012 (EST)
::Naw, I've got shots of them actually aiming the things at the VTOL when it arrives, have to check again to see if any of the empty ones fire but I think they do. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:32, 16 November 2012 (EST)
::Yeah, I thought for a second about the ceremonial angle, but when Menendez shoots down a VTOL, most of the soldiers around him were missing mags in their rifles [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:23, 16 November 2012 (EST)
::: Considering the scale of the apparent error, then, it may be intentional. It would be hard for something like models with missing magazines to make it past testing. I'm willing to bet ceremonial, since I've seen many times where soldiers acting as ceremonial guards will carry their rifles unloaded and with no magazine. The function that's occurring would make sense for this action. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 03:26, 17 November 2012 (EST)
::::Yeah, but again, they ''aim'' rifles with no magazines at things, though I'm going back through now to get more screencaps and check if they actually fire them without magazines. It might just be a spawning bug, and a visual error a good 70% of users won't even notice is going to get flagged as "low priority" even in the likely case that the QA team spotted it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:39, 17 November 2012 (EST)
:::::Yeah, I noticed this during my playthrough. I was using an AN-94 on this level, and in first person my gun had no magazine. It reappeared during my reload, and disappeared afterwards. I was going to grab a screenshot and uypload it, but it appears I've been beaten to it :P [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 09:05, 20 November 2012 (EST)

== Terminology note ==

"The first game" = World at War, not Black Ops.

"The previous game" should not be used, since it's confusing as to whether that's MW3 or Black Ops. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:48, 18 November 2012 (EST)

:By that standard, "the first game" would mean Call of Duty 1, so I would say just use the full name of the game in question. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] ([[User talk:Animalmenace|talk]])

== STORM PSR Sniper Rifle ==

is it just me or did the makers of call of duty: black ops II put in the em-1 railgun from the movie eraser?
the scope may not see in MRI mode, but it can see in thermal or infrared or whatever they call it in the game, but i enjoyed it immensely. i love the game.
:As I recall this actually ''was'' something Metal Storm Inc were suggesting their technology could do back when they were touting their million RPM rig to everyone who would listen; a superfast burst would potential result in multiple projectiles hitting the same position for very high penetration. Trouble was the superfast Metal Storm guns have issues with minor things like ''not exploding'' because gun barrels really don't like it when you fire a round while the previous one is still inside the barrel. They came up with some complicated venting system to solve that, but realised it basically removed all the advantages Metal Storm was supposed to have (in that it was more complex and meant the weapon had more moving parts than a normal gun) and so went over to stacked-round mortars, GLs and that underbarrel shotgun they have. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:54, 20 November 2012 (EST)

==New Screenshots==

I just added a few screenshots for some of the missing weapons (MP5A3, Beretta M682, SPAS-12, M1216, Type 25, M8A1, SIG 556) let me know if there's anything wrong with them and I'll take better ones. I had shots for the HAMR( SCAR-L) and the SCAR-H but they didn't turn out well so I didn't upload them. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 10:33, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:It's ok, I've got about three thousand screenshots and pretty much everything covered, and I think I'm running higher resolution and settings. If you want something to do, though, you could try making the ''World at War'' page...Well, "less awful" would be a start, even. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 12:55, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::I have recently acquired a physical copy of ''World at War'' so I'll see what I can do about in game screenshots. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 09:04, 25 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, I was running everything on Max but I don't think FRAPS likes Black Ops 2 very much because everything turned out low-res. And I don't own World at War, so I can't really contribute to it's page :P [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 13:32, 20 November 2012 (EST)
:::You shouldn't really need FRAPs, if you're running it through Steam it has its own screenshot key and even if you're not there should be a "take screenshot" command in the control settings. Though as said, I've got this one covered so we don't really need anyone else getting caps for it anyway. Thanks for the effort, though. :) [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:37, 20 November 2012 (EST)
::::I use FRAPS because I can save the images as .PNGs because I take a lot of game screenshots for my blog, and as far as I know Steam only does .JPGs. But Yeah, I'll keep an eye out next time I'm grabbing screenshots so I don't step on any toes. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] ([[User talk:Nikonov|talk]]) 11:04, 22 November 2012 (EST)

== Fun with old models ==

So, the Kurzer 8 cm Granatwerfer 42 model is seven years old. For those wondering if this is some kind of record, it's got a long way to go; I believe the record for officially recycled art assets is ''Castlevania'', which got a Medusa Head sprite in ''Rondo of Blood'' in 1993 and recycled it until ''Order of Ecclesia'' in 2008. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:13, 22 November 2012 (EST)

== Could someone explain this if possible? ==

I don't have the game, so forgive me if i am missing something obvious, but i have noticed several confusing things in the various gameplay videos.

First of all, why does some guns not eject casings? I know guns can eject downwards but no casings are left on the floor. This seems to apply to all Chinese weapons, the MTAR-21, SMR and PDW-57. I know it could be a mistake on the developer's part but it seems so obvious, am i missing anything?

Secondly, regarding the PDW-57, the above could potentially make sense as the casings are left in the magazine even when it has been fired empty. But it seems impractical, and why are they all in the same place no matter how many shots have been fired? Do they move in a circle around the inside of the magazine?

Thirdly, how does Fast Mag work on Shotguns with tube magazines?

Also, can 1980's weapons, when used in the future levels after completing the game, use futuristic attachments?

Finally, why does some videos decipt the KSG reloading one shell at a time and others two shells at a time?

Thanks in advance. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 18:54, 24 November 2012 (EST)

Fast mag for the tube-magged shotguns makes it so that you reload two shells at a time. 1980s weapons cannot use futuristic attachments even in the 2025 missions. They have their own set of attachments.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 19:01, 24 November 2012 (EST)

:The bullpup weapons have the ejection port where it generally isn't even on-screen when the weapon is shouldered, so there's no way you'd see ejected brass. PDW-57 is probably supposed to eject down like the P90. They probably just didn't bother with a brass effect you'd hardly ever see, and it's not like the series is exactly big on getting brass right (see also every revolver reload ever).

:PDW-57 just isn't animated, game P90s almost never are and in general a transparent magazine will just show a fixed number of rounds inside it. While you can cycle rounds back into a magazine after firing (aircraft cannons sometimes do it) it would be impractical in a weapon that wasn't belt fed because you'd have to have the weapon basically eject spent casings back into its own magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 05:22, 25 November 2012 (EST)

::It is very rare in games to see a P90 cartridge cycle. The one that I am known to is the Rainbow Six Vegas series. More games should have this feature and take away the ammo counter on screen, use visual cues. --[[User:Valant|A single bullet can change history]] ([[User talk:Valant|talk]]) 17:52, 26 November 2012 (EST)

:::MGS4 does it, too. But the ammo counter is mainly there because your character is supposed to be a soldier, and so he'd have some sense of the weight of his weapon and be more focused on how many rounds he's fired than the player. It's like, say, a minimap is supposed to substitute for your character's knowledge of the area they're in; it's much easier to have the character pass their knowledge to the player rather than expecting the player to BE the character. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:06, 27 November 2012 (EST)

Thanks for the answers, both of you. Very much appreciated. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 15:02, 25 November 2012 (EST)

== Overall thoughts on the game... ==

So I managed to pick up a copy of the game, and I played it several times through, and well... it was pretty impressive to say in the least.

The strong points of the game are pretty much as follows: the pre-mission weapon customization, being able to drive/command vehicles, the developers making an attempt at providing more details on the weapons, players getting the opportunity to use every weapon on any mission (even if it doesn't fit the time period), a pretty damn good musical soundtrack, giving the protagonists and antagonists better personalities and character depth rather than just presenting them as wooden beings who follow orders or one-track objectives, and finally, presenting a story that can end in a different number of ways depending on your choices, was understandable for the most part, and how such a story could possibly one day happen in real life (Cause let's be honest here folks, there are people out there in the world like Raul Menendez who wish to create chaos and anarchy (for whatever purpose suits them), and yet they claim to 'fight for the oppressed', and are viewed and praised as 'heroes', 'revolutionaries' and 'saints' by the people that are often called 'the 99%' in today's fast-changing society of ours... [interesting Occupy Movement reference there, Treyarch]).

Call of Duty: Black Ops II definitely qualifies to be on the list of "Top X best games of 2012", and perhaps the better Call of Duty game that not only ranks up there along with Call of Duty (2003) and Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (at least I think so, feel free to disagree), but also the better Call of Duty game that Activision has made in the past 5 years. I hope that the next batch of Call of Duty games are just as good as this one was. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] ([[User talk:ThatoneguyJosh|talk]]) 04:45, 28 November 2012 (EST)

Aside from Menendez's back story and his organization, the story was pretty good. I need the game to explain what the villain is apart of and what they represent [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:04, 28 November 2012 (EST)

== Why is the SCAR-H model listed as being too thin? ==

I don't find the in-game model to be thinner than it really should. What are we going by? The top parts of both the SCAR-H and the SCAR-L have the same width due to both of them having the same Picatinny rail on top. [[User:RadicalDisconnect|RadicalDisconnect]] ([[User talk:RadicalDisconnect|talk]]) 02:39, 1 December 2012 (EST)

I looked at it too. I've handled a SCAR-17S and it isn't "bulky" really [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 20:57, 1 December 2012 (EST)

I suggest removing that line, as I don't find the rifle to be too thin at all. I think the illusion came from the fact that the Picatinny rails have more slots in them than in previous games. [[User:RadicalDisconnect|RadicalDisconnect]] ([[User talk:RadicalDisconnect|talk]]) 08:11, 12 December 2012 (EST)

== Reloadings are incorrectly described .... ==

Both the USAF M16 and MP5A3 sections states the magazines are empty/solid when reloading, while after lenthy examination, i have found all weapons to feature bullets in their inserted magazines. It also seems that the previous magazine visibly features bullets when reloading from non-empty and no bullets when reloading from empty. This includes the M16 and MP5. It does however seem like this was overlooked on Fast Mags. Can whoever took the MP5 images specify if he was using Fast Mag in the image thet claims it is solid?

Otherwise this should be pointed out somewhere on the page instead. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 20:18, 6 December 2012 (EST)

:Fast mag on the M16 but I don't think so on the MP5 (edit: checked, it's a fast mag there too), I'll have to go in and check again next time I'm off work (that'll be sunday). Caption for the M16 does specify that the magazines in the screenshot are empty, it doesn't say they always are. Incidentally if you're wondering why there's a lot of shots from "Old Wounds," it's the one where they give you guns the fastest. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:59, 7 December 2012 (EST)

While it doesn't say it is always empty, it does give that impression. I thought so until i checked myself. Maybe just pointing out somewhere that Fast Mag lacks detail could perhaps be useful. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 07:55, 7 December 2012 (EST)

:I'll get some extra shots on sunday for it. It's pretty hard with the MP5 because the mag's not actually on screen for very long (same with Far Cry 3 and finding SPAS reloads where there's a cartridge on-screen, it seems) but I have a stupid mouse with one button set to screenshot so I will stupid at the game until it loses. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:43, 7 December 2012 (EST)

== Learned some things ==
Drift0r's BO2 vids have taught me something that we could probably add to the main article.
I mentioned, correctly, that Select Fire alters handling characteristics, and full-auto is usually slower than burst (we already know of one case that isn't true). What I just found out is that a select-fire Vector has identical burst and full-auto ROFs, and its burst mode is a 2-round burst, like the AN-94, and unlike all the other SF-enabled burst modes of other full-auto weapons. Also, I managed to find a more recent version of the BO2 weapon chart, and the mentioning of the SIG 556's damage profile being altered in full-auto mode (via SF) is no longer true. It now has identical max-min damages (40-24) in both burst and full-auto. What is still true is that it still suffers a reduction in its 3 and 4 hit kill ranges.--[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 23:19, 9 December 2012 (EST)

== Protection level ==

This page should not be infinitely protected from editing, it can still be improved. The [[Modern Warfare 3]] page is also still protected. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2012 (EST)
:You can suggest changes here, both pages are likely to attract stupidity. This page will be finished shortly, I just need to find time to sift through the rest of my screencaps. I know about the 92SB in MW3, I'm going to add it when I get around to getting a screencap, should all be done over the weekend. That aside MW3 is complete and 99% of edits to it will be either adding worthless or incorrect information. Please don't dictate what our protection policy should be, it ''is'' policy to fully protect high-traffic pages. ''Rambo III'' has been sysop protected for the last three and a half years. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 11:44, 21 December 2012 (EST)
::Okay, the M16A4 should be added, as it is seen during a cutscene in which Woods strangles a Viet Cong soldier with the rifle, yet it is not obtainable during gameplay. The SMR also turned out to be a true Saritch 308 (or at least with a slightly modified appearance like the XM8, but not just a fictional weapon based on it), due to this evidence given in the Call of Duty Wiki: - "In Zombies, Marlton comments on how the SMR uses .308 rounds, just like the Saritch 308 - On ELiTE, [...] the default file name was 'Saritch' - SMR possibly stands for 'Saritch Modular Rifle' or 'Saritch Marksman Rifle'". Also, the KAP-40 is described in the IMFDB page as "a fully automatic handgun based on the TDI Kard", yet I don't find any major difference between them (unless the full-auto fire mode is incorrect); its mechanism and caliber (.45 ACP) are also the same as the real TDI Kard, so I believe that it is indeed a TDI Kard. --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 03:35, 22 December 2012 (EST)
::::Would the "40" in "KAP-40" not imply somewhat that the pistol is chambered in a .40-calibre round, such as .40 S&W? I know it's a trivial thing, but that's the first thing that came to my mind upon hearing the name. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] ([[User talk:Dirty Harold|talk]]) 07:31, 22 December 2012 (EST)
:::::No, because the left hand side of the KAP-40 says ".45 ACP" --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 10:29, 22 December 2012 (EST)
::::::Ah, right--upon examining the gun more closely, I can see where it says that. Seems as though "KAP-45" would have been a more appropriate name given the circumstances. --[[User:Dirty Harold|Dirty Harold]] ([[User talk:Dirty Harold|talk]]) 11:04, 22 December 2012 (EST)
:::I'll check for the M16 tomorrow, the SMR isn't really all that similar to the Saritch (it's about the same shape, but it looks like it's been built out of features of other guns like the B23R; it's about as close as the Type 25 is to any of the QB rifles) and the KAP is obviously based on the Kard but has, among other things, completely different join lines, a differently shaped grip, a TDI Vector fire selector (since the real one has no full-auto functionality) and a stupidly out-of-reach Vector bolt release. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 04:47, 22 December 2012 (EST)
::::That's right, the SMR seems to contain parts of the Vulkan M2T Ukrainian experimental assault rifle. It should also be mentioned that the 3-round burst and fully-automatic fire are incorrect for the SG 556, since the real one only comes in semi-auto. For the M16A4, it is seen in Woods' flashback in the mission "Pyrrhic Victory". And an extra note: the Barrett M107 section should contain a sentence like "While the M82A1 would fit in the game's setting (having been developed in 1982), the M107 is highly anachronistic, since it ..." (because it is referred to as Barrett M82A1 in-game) --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] ([[User talk:Ultimate94ninja|talk]]) 06:55, 22 December 2012 (EST)
:::::I think the actual error there is that Barrett have started marketing the M107 as the M82A1 (per our own page on the Barrett rifles), so the problem is they put the wrong M82A1 in the game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 13:33, 23 December 2012 (EST)

== Basis of in-game Saiga? ==

Guys, I think I may have found the the Saiga Treyarch based in the in-game model off of:
[http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=25&category_id=2&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=3 Link to page on Red Jacket website (I don't know how to "safely" place a link onto IMFDB from an iPad, which is currently my only form of Internet access, so it would be much appreciated if someone could tell me how so I could up date it later)]

Operation 7

2012-12-20T00:10:56Z

Jeddostotle7: /* AN94 */

{{incomplete}}
'''The following weapons appear in the video game ''Operation 7'':'''
[[Image:Operation 7.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Operation 7'' (2006)]]

== Overview ==
Operation 7 is an online first person shooter that is characteristic for its high level of realism to the weapons, almost all of which can be customized in some way, the primary weapons are far more customizable secondary weapons.
among the aspects that can be chosen to build the primary weapon are: barrels, scopes, rifle, Receivers, chargers, camouflage / finishes, handles can even choose the ammo to use, the secondary weapons can only be customized with different camouflage / finishes and ammo.
The game correctly tracks the +1 bullet in the chamber and the fire-mode selector can also be used.
Another feature of the game is that all parts of the weapons have some weight, the more you weigh the arms, will be more hard to aim and sprinting ability is also affected

== Pistols ==
=== Beretta 92FS/M9 and 92FS Inox ===
The Beretta 92FS/M9 is the starting pistol for default in game, is balanced but not particularly powerful and iron sights can be quite obstructive to shoot in medium-long distances.
Also available the Beretta 92FS Inox among the camouflage options on the gun, but the change is only visual.
Curiously, the weapon is referred to as much as 92FS and M9, in-game in choosing Inox finish the gun is still called 92FS/M9.
[[Image:BerettaM92FS.jpg‎|thumb|300px|none|Beretta 92FS/M9 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Beretta-Inox.jpg|thumb|300px|none|Beretta 92FS Inox - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:OP792FSM9.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The Default "Berete 92F" has is called in-game]]
[[Image:OP792FSINOX.jpg|thumb|600px|none| The Inox finish "M9"]]
[[Image:OP792FSTAN.jpg|thumb|600px|none|The third and final finish available to choose for the 92FS is a tan finish]]
[[Image:OP792FSM9 idle.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Idle]]
[[Image:OP792FSINOX iron sight.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Iron sight]]
[[Image:OP792FSTANRE.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Reloading]]

=== Colt M1911A1 ===
The Colt M1911A1 is one of the first weapons that can be acquired with gold, and has more power than regular 9mm guns but limited charger can be a problem.
The gun comes with 3 finishes available, the first is finished GI model, the second finish is a two-tone finish that looks like a Colt MK IV Series 80 Combat Elite and third finish available seems to have been gold plated sliding black and carved ivory grips

[[Image:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Standard M1911a1 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:80elite6-1-.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Colt MK IV Series 80 Combat Elite - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:OP7M1911A1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The "Kolt M1911A1" as it is called in-game]]
[[Image:OP780ELITE.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M1911A1 that looks like a MK IV Series 80 Combat Elite in the shop]]
[[Image:OP7M1911A1CUSTOM.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The M1911A1 Custom in the shop]]
[[Image:OP7M1911A1 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP780ELITESIGHT.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sight]]
[[Image:OP7M1911A1CUSTOMRE.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reload]]

=== GLOCK 18C ===

=== IMI Desert Eagle ===
=== SIG-Sauer P226 ===
[[Image:OP7P226 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
=== H&K HK45 ===
[[Image:OP7_HK45_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|HK45 in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_HK45_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_HK45_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Iron sight]]
[[Image:OP7_HK45_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]

=== Smith & Wesson M&P ===

[[Image:S&W M&P 45acp.jpg‎|thumb|none|300px|Smith & Wesson M&P Semiautomatic Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:M&P 45 Brown.jpg|thumb|300px|none|A Smith & Wesson M&P with tan frame - .45 ACP.]]

=== FN FNP-45 ===

You should really find more pics for this dude
=== Smith & Wesson Model 29 and 629 ===
Recently added, the M29 is the only gun in the game (for now) also use exclusively (for now) .44 magnum ammo, due to the nature of gun, the gun can not keep a bullet in the chamber as the others in the game is reloaded with a curiously invisible, speedloader, ammunition to be loaded are also invisible until last second when the character removed the hand.
You can also buy a S&W Model 629 by changing the camouflage/finish but like the Beretta 92FS with 92FS Inox, the change is purely visual and does not affect gameplay.
[[Image:Smith&WessonModel29.jpg|thumb|none|300px|S&W Model 29 - .44 Magnum]]
[[Image:S&WModel629.jpg|thumb|none|300px|S&W Model 629 - .44 Magnum]]
[[Image:OP7M29MENU.jpg|thumb|none|600px|the S&W Model 29 simply called M29 ingame]]
[[Image:OP7M629MENU.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Note how the change to stainless finish does not change the name of the weapon and still referred as M29]]
[[Image:OP7M29Idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7M629Idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7M29Sight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sight]]
[[Image:OP7M629RE.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reload]]

== Shotguns ==
=== M590 ===
[[Image:OP7M590 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
=== SPAS 15 ===
[[Image:OP7SPAS15 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
=== Valtro PM-5 ===
[[Image:Valtro-PM5.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Valtro PM5, a magazine fed, pump action shotgun - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:OP7Valtra PM-5 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Valtro PM5 with 'ghost ring' style rear sights]]

== Sub-Machine Guns ==
=== TMP ===
* MP9
[[Image:OP7_MP9_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP9 in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_MP9_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_MP9_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Iron sight]]
[[Image:OP7_MP9_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]
=== Spectre M4 ===
* Spectre PCC
=== SCA M11 ===
* SCA M11 thompson
* SCA M11 carbine
=== Heckler & Koch MP5A4 and Faux MP5K-PDW ===
This is the first series of SMG available to buy in the game from level 1 with gold, it is interesting to note a couple of errors in the fire selector, model the game has a regular fire selector of 3 positions lock - semi-auto - auto what make its a MP5A2 but in the gameplay the selector includes the bursts making it an MP5A4.
parts available to customize the MP5 type weapons are:
stocks fixed A2 style, retractable A3 style, folding PDW style, the only barrels are available are standard length, with and without suppressor, magazines of 15 and 30 rounds, handguards "tropical" style, slimline with different frontsight and one with an MP5K foregrip but longer way so that they fit with the standard barrel, there are 2 sights of beyond the iron sights, one are holographic and the other are a red dot, there no other receivers available.

[[Image:H&KMP5A4.jpg|thumb|none|300px|MP5A4 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MP5K-PDW.jpg|thumb|none|300px|A Real MP5K-PDW - 9x19mm - Notice the difference in length of the barrel in relation to the MP5A4]]
[[Image:OP7_MP5A4_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP5A4 in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_MP5A4_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|MP5A4 Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_MP5A4_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iron sight]]
[[Image:OP7_MP5A4_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reload]]
[[Image:OP7_MP5KPDW_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|600px| Faux MP5K-PDW in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_MP5KPDW_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Faux MP5K-PDW Idle]]

=== Heckler & Koch UMP ===
* UMP45
[[Image:OP7_UMP45_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|UMP.45 in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_UMP45_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_UMP45_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Iron sight]]
[[Image:OP7_UMP45_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]
* USC45
=== Ingram MAC M10 ===
[[Image:OP7MAC10 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
=== PP-19 BIZON ===
=== FN P90 ===
[[Image:FNP90.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Fabrique Nationale P90 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:FNP90Side.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN P90 - side view - 5.7x28mm]]
[[Image:FNP90wEOTECHsight.jpg‎ |none|right|400px|FN P90 TR with rail and EOTECH holographic Sight (this is a real movie 'blank adapted' firearm) - 5.7x28mm]]
* P90
[[Image:OP7_P90_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|P90 in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_P90_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_P90_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Dot sight]]
[[Image:OP7_P90_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]
* PS90

=== MP7 ===
[[Image:OP7_MP7_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MP7 in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_MP7_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_MP7_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Iron sight]]
[[Image:OP7_MP7_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]

== Assault Rifles ==
=== K2 ===
=== COLT AR15 ===
* M4 Carbine

* M4 Commando

* CAR15
* M16A4

=== Heckler & Koch 416 ===
[[Image:Hk416-1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch HK416 with 10 inch barrel, 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:Hk416-2.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Heckler & Koch HK416 with 14.5 inch barrel, 5.56x45mm NATO]]
* HK416 Commando
* HK416 Carbine
=== Heckler & Koch G36 ===
* G36C
* G36K
=== TYPE 89 ===
* TYPE 89 Carbine
[[Image:OP789C 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
* TYPE 89 Para
[[Image:HowaType89Para.jpg‎|thumb|600px|none|Type 89-F assault rifle with folding stock for Paratroopers - 5.56x45mm]]
* TYPE 89 Standard
[[Image:HowaType89FullStock.jpg‎|thumb|600px|none|Howa Type 89 in 5.56x45mm]]

===SIG SG550===

*SG550
[[Image:SIG550.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SIG SG 550 assault rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Op7sg550.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Op7sg5501.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

*SG551
[[Image:Sig-551.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SIG SG 551 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Op7sg551.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Op7sg5511.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

*SG552
[[Image:SIG_SG552.jpg|thumb|500px|none|SIG SG 552 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Op7sg552.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Op7sg5521.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

*SG550Sniper
[[Image:Op7sg550 sniper.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]
[[Image:Op7sg550 sniper1.jpg|thumb|none|500px|]]

===AK74===
* AK74M
* AKS74
* AKS74M
* AKS74U
===AN94===
Since the game cannot handle variable firing rates in the same fire mode, the AN-94's unique automatic firing mode, which fires the first two-rounds at 1800 RPM (like the burst option) and subsequent shots at 600 RPM, has been restricted to 600 RPM. The burst function still fires at 1800 RPM.
[[Image:An94-1.jpg|400px|thumb|none|Avtomat Nikonov AN-94 5.45x39mm]]

=== FAMAS ===
[[Image:FAMAS-F1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAS-F1. First pattern with 25 round straight magazine and distinctive ribbed barrel.]]
[[Image:FAMAS F2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAS-G2 5.56mm. Notable changes are the full grip guard instead of a trigger guard and the ability to accept NATO STANAG magazines]]
* FAMAS F1
* FAMAS Sniper
* FAMAS Commando
* FAMAS G2

=== Steyr AUG ===
* AUG Commando
* AUG Carbine
* AUG Standard
===M1 GARAND ===

=== M14 ===
* M14A1
* M14 EBR
* M14 DMR

=== FN FAL ===
[[Image:FN FAL 50 00.jpg|thumb|none|400px| FN FAL 50.00 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:FN-FAL-50.61.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN FAL 50.61 Paratrooper with 21" barrel - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:L1A1-SLR.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|British Inch Pattern L1A1 SLR (Self Loading Rifle) chambered in 7.62 Nato - Variation of the FN FAL rifle. British & New Zealand SLR's were later fitted with black fibreglass furniture as seen here.]]
[[Image:DSA-SA-58-OSW.jpg‎ ‎|thumb|400px|none|DSArms SA58 OSW Carbine 7.62x51mm]]
* FAL para
* FAL Sniper
* L1A1
* DSA58
* DSA58 OSW
* DSA58 Elite
* DSA58 Tactical
* DSA58 SPR

=== SA80 ===
* L85A1
[[Image:OP7_L85A1_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|L85A1 in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_L85A1_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_L85A1_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Iron sight]]
[[Image:OP7_L85A1_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]

*L85A2

* L22A1

=== TAR-21 ===
* TAR-21
[[Image:OP7_TAR21_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|TAR-21 in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_TAR21_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_TAR21_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Dot sight]]
[[Image:OP7_TAR21_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]
* CTAR-21
[[Image:OP7_CTAR21_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|CTAR-21 in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_CTAR21_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
* MTAR-21
[[Image:OP7_MTAR21_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MTAR-21 in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_MTAR21_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_MTAR21_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Dot sight]]
[[Image:OP7_MTAR21_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]

=== XM8 ===
* XM8 Carbine
[[Image:OP7_XM8_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|XM8 Carbine in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_XM8_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_XM8_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Dot sight]]
[[Image:OP7_XM8_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]
* XM8 Compact
[[Image:OP7_XM8C_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|XM8 Compact in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_XM8C_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
* XM8 Sharpshooter

=== SCAR ===
* SCAR-L
[[Image:OP7_SCARL_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SCAR-L in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_SCARL_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_SCARL_Sight.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Iron sight]]
[[Image:OP7_SCARL_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]
* SCAR-H
[[Image:OP7_SCARH_Menu.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SCAR-H in menu]]
[[Image:OP7_SCARH_Idle.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Idle]]
[[Image:OP7_SCARH_Reload.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Reload]]

=== ACR ===
The ACR is available through the premium rewards section (Ncash+Gold, costs 5000 ncash and 7500 gold altogether.)

== Machine Guns ==
=== M249 ===
[[Image:M249E1.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|M249-E1 SAW with 200-round ammo drum - First major upgrade of the SAW officially adopted by the U.S. Military (this is a real blank adapted movie gun) - 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Fn_m249saw_mk2_10-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M249-E2 SAW - upgraded M249 with heat shield and full synthetic Stock - 5.56mm with 200 round ammo drum.]]
[[Image:M249ParaWAmmo.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M249 SAW 5.56mm paratrooper version with 200 round ammo drum]]
[[Image:M249ParaModel.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M249 Paratrooper - a real blank adapted movie gun with bipod folded and a picatinny rail on the top of the receiver - 5.56mm]]
[[Image:Mk46.jpg‎|thumb|right|500px|Mk 46 Mod 0 Machinegun 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:OP7M249SAW 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
*M249 PARA ===
*MK46 MOD0 ===
=== M60 ===
* M60E3
* M60E4
* MK43
== MG3 ==
*MG3

== Sniper Rifles ==
=== M24 ===

== seyfo ==

=== FN-SPR ===
=== MSG90 ===
[[Image:OP7MSG90 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
=== SR25 ===
=== M110 SASS ===
=== DRAGUNOV ===
* DRAGUNOV-SVD
[[Image:OP7SVD 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
* DRAGUNOV-SVDS
* DRAGUNOV-Tiger
* PSL
=== DTA SRS ===
=== WA2000 ===

The WA 2000 is a semi-automatic bullpup sniper rifle that was produced by the Carl Walther GmbH Sportwaffen company.[1] It was produced in three different calibers. Production of the rifle was limited and it was shortly stopped because it was too expensive to achieve widespread sales. The rifle is currently rare and very valuable.

=== AWM ===

== Grenade Launcher ==
OP7 M203
=== M203 ===
=== AG36 ===
=== GP30 ===
== Hand Grenade ==
=== MK2 ===
=== M61 ===
=== M61 ===
=== XM84 ===
=== M18 ===
== External links ==
* [http://op7.netgame.com/ Operation7 Official Trailer]

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]

Talk:Para-Ordnance 1911 Series

2012-12-19T06:34:31Z

Jeddostotle7: /* "Double-Stack" */

=Additional Variants=
==Screen Used==
[[Image:BDSIIParas-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A pair of Para-Ordnance SSPs (.45 ACP) as used in ''[[The Boondock Saints II: All Saints Day]]''. The weapons pictured here were the actual screen-used guns handled and fired by Clifton Collins, Jr. in the film; note the custom grips, golden suppressors, and "El Jefe" engraved into the slides. ''(Big thanks to [[Al Vrkljan]] at Movie Armaments Group for this IMFDB Exclusive image!)'']]
[[Image:ShootEmUp-HammersonNiteTac-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|A Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac (.45 ACP) used in ''[[Shoot 'Em Up]]''. The weapon pictured here is one of the actual screen-used guns from the film; note the engraved Hammerson logo. ''(Big thanks to [[Al Vrkljan]] at Movie Armaments Group for this IMFDB Exclusive image!)'']]
=Discussion=

== "Double-Stack" ==

What exactly does that mean? - [[User: 2wingo]]
:It means that the magazine staggers the rounds contained within, increasing the capacity while keeping the same relative size. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 21:43, 18 December 2012 (EST)
::Well, double stack magazines tend to be wider than single stacks. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] ([[User talk:Funkychinaman|talk]]) 01:28, 19 December 2012 (EST)
:::Yeah, I thought me saying "relative" would cover that. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 01:34, 19 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:Para-Ordnance 1911 Series

2012-12-19T02:43:07Z

Jeddostotle7: /* "Double-Stack" */

Steyr HS .50

2012-12-18T02:39:47Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Specifications */

[[Image:Steyr50hs.jpg|thumb|right|500px|Steyr HS.50 .50 BMG]]
==Specifications==
(2004 - Present)

* '''Type:''' Sniper Rifle

* '''Caliber:''' .50 BMG

* '''Weight:''' 28.5 lbs (12.4 kg)

* '''Length:''' 54 in (137 cm)

* '''Barrel length:''' 33 in (83.3 cm)

* '''Capacity:''' 5

* '''Fire Modes:''' Bolt-Action

-----
'''The Steyr HS.50 sniper rifle appears in the following films used by the following actors:'''

===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[The Incredible Hulk (2008)|The Incredible Hulk]]''|| ||A military sniper|| ||2008
|-
|''[[Resident Evil: Afterlife]]''|| ||Umbrella Sniper|| ||2010
|-
|}

===Television===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Nikita (2010) - Season 1|Nikita - Season 1]]''||[[Maggie Q]] ||Nikita||with thermal sight ||2010
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''As'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Mods'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Söldner: Secret Wars]]''||"Steyr .50 HS" |||| ||2004
|-
|}

 

=See Also=
*[[Steyr Mannlicher]] - A list of all firearms manufactured by Steyr Mannlicher.

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Rifle]]
[[Category:Sniper Rifle]]

Talk:Far Cry 3

2012-12-17T15:13:09Z

Jeddostotle7: /* AK rifle naming */

== Single players weapons ==
Some of the weapons listed here, do not appear in single player campaign, or maybe are completely removed from the final game, this should be noted no? Among them the desert eagle, Vector , spas-12, galil, hk416, there is however a heavy sniper rifle used during one mission to cover the characters friend, I couldn't identify it only the barrel and the scope is seen.

Yaay, Frank and his amazing collection of exploding rust will ride again. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:From what I saw in the demo at E3 (I watched Microsoft's press conference live yesterday), it looks like this game will be set on an island like the earlier games in the series. Frankly I'm surprised no one had beat me to the punch and made a page for the game already. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:59, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I'd heard of it being in development, but I wasn't aware there was any actual footage of weapons in it yet. I guess I'll have to start saving for another PC and set aside 40 or so hours to screencap it like last time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:05, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Here's an "insane" walkthrough video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXHmWRziHA [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:26, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Waaaaaaiiiit a minute...I see a crashed Zero, ancient ruins, and they're talking about this island's "dark secret." Looks like this is going to be an ''actual'' sequel to ''Far Cry''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:39, 8 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Loved the first game, so I hope it will awesome. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK ==

The AK has a muzzlebrake, but the mag looks like a 7.62mm mag instead of the straighter 5.45mm mag. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:32, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:If you watch the video, you'll notice that all the features of the weapon except the magazine match the AK-74 (handguard & stock, receiver cover, muzzle brake, front sight assembly), with the magazine being the only part that doesn't match. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

Dang DinoHunter2! You did '''EXACTLY''' what I was going to do, I was considering changing it to a AK-103 like half a hour ago and the description change is the same as I was thinking, good job! :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:23, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:You're welcome Mr. Wolf :D - [[User:DinoHunter2|DinoHunter2]] 18:18, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol ==

It's a modern 1911 with a under-barrel rail. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:21, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:Never mind, I was too slow. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

YEY! Finally a Kimber in a game! I'm looking forward to this game regardless now :D --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:47, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

[[File:FC3KIMBLER2.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A Kimber Warrior in ''Far Cry 3'']]

Heres an interesting thing, if you look at this wallpaper [http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/ncsa/FarCry3/wallpapers/fc3-wallpaper-1920x1200.jpg] you will see a guy with a Glock, however, you can see a HAMMER if you zoom in! uh oh. At least he has good trigger discipline. :) -m82a1

:s&w sigma? --[[User:Gtcsmc|Gtcsmc]] ([[User talk:Gtcsmc|talk]]) 16:35, 10 December 2012 (EST)

== SVD? ==

An alternate demo walkthrough features what looks to be an SVD or one of its derivatives. Anyone care to give this video a look? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_9fsXPNs34

On a side note, the same video confirms the M67 in game. The throwing animation is actually kinda cool, as you see the spoon being released before the grenade is thrown.

*Looks like an actual Dragunov, it's got that bend in the safety lever that the Romak doesn't have, and it looks like they've given it the right handguard and no X stamping on the magazine this time. Of course it's a lefty Dragonuv, but I think that's to be expected. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:20, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
::Maybe it's the Far Cry 2 model with a new texture, that might explain why it's a lefty gun, hope that changes in the final game, the other guns are righty guns. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:51, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, in both that video and the one I posted above, the Blackhawk helicopter the player hijacks is shot down by what appears to be some kind of rocket launcher. You can't see the guy firing it clearly, and I only saw a split-second glimpse of the rocket milliseconds before it strikes the aircraft, but I think it's possibly an [[RPG-7]] or Type 69. I don't want to add it to the page until more concrete proof is found though. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:32, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Here is a image of the rocket launcher:
[[File:FC3RL.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] 14:38, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
:Definitely a RPG-7/Type 69, most likely a RPG-7. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:42, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== Will brass fly left still? ==

I'm wondering if these guns will be like the previous game and have the brass eject left [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:49, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

*Well, so far the AK and Kimber look like they're right-handed and only the SVD looks like it's a lefty model. Now, interestingly, I'd heard that the developers had seen our ''Far Cry 2'' page (some podcast or other had a guy saying some guy on the team, I think the director, had pointed him to it) and it's actually looking like they took note: for example, they've fixed the handguard of the SVD, the magazine, the scope now fills the screen to avoid that issue where the area outside the scope was zoomed in too, the reticle now has the numbers on it (though it's missing the lower line of the rangefinder and the 1.7, and has one too many chevrons), and he holds it at the hip like the stock's under his arm rather than inserted partway into his shoulder. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Now if only Infinity Ward and Treyarch would follow that lead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:45, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Recent news ==

I've heard from the UK Official PS3 Magazine that the game world is supposedly going to be ten times the size of the world in ''Far Cry 2''. To be honest, this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence; one of the biggest problems with ''FC2'' was the size of the world seemed to have been decided in some board meeting before they had a single idea down as to what they were going to put in all that space. The result was a game that had you going five miles from A to B simply because they wanted you to see all the effort they'd put into the huge map. It can be done (see ''Just Cause 2'') but it makes me nervous hearing they're on "look at how big our map is" rather than "we have so many great ideas the map has to be at least this big." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:08, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Ten times the size? I lost intrest in Far Cry 2 because the game is not an FPS, is a driving game with peolpe trying to kill you at the checkpoints! OK, I'm exagerating but it's way to big.--[[User:MAndolin|MAndolin]] 08:35, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

But on the flip side, bigger maps can mean more space for more content. It's not the size of the maps that is the problem, it's what they use the size for. Far Cry 2, spatially, I thought was lovely. The driving and auto-attack enemies got old, but there's nothing about the space that seemed to be a problem. There was always somewhere to go and something to do. If they made travel more risky/interesting, and enemies didn't auto-attack you at every turn... it would make it more interesting. Furthermore, other methods of travel... such as helicopters, planes, etc. would do a world of good. Also, they need to focus on the end game more... after you've finished up the quests, that's it. There needs to be more repeatable content. Houses need to be more dynamic and upgradeable, hopefully with actual windows... not just instances you enter. That, and they need to expand more on the "hunt" and stealth aspect. It was awesome in Far Cry 2 just picking apart groups of enemies, but sucked because they -automatically- knew where you were 90% of the time... negating all stealth. It seems this has been vastly improved in the little footage we've seen, and the inventory system seems to be expanded as well. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:22, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:Naw, the problem as I see it was in FC2 before they did ''anything'' they had that 50 square km number set in stone. This led to the problem of just having normal-sized quests with waypoints that were ridiculously far apart from one another; the result was basically a 10 hour game which had another 20 hours of driving and random fights thrown on top. Not that there was anything wrong with the combat mechanics, but one key point of an open-world game is you should be able to choose how you address a situation; always having the enemies set to max aggression / kill you got wearying. A good example of a different approach would be the checkpoint halfway through Cordon in ''Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl''; there, you could shoot everyone. Or you could sneak down an anomaly-filled corridor nearby and bypass it. Or risk radiation and wild animals to use a gap in the fence way down the railway track in the other direction. Or you could put your gun away and bribe the officer to let you pass. There were consequences to all of these; for example, if you killed them all you'd then have to repel a large group of Bandits by yourself rather than the guys at the checkpoint attacking them when they got close.

:Like I said, the trouble in FC2 was that number was how big they wanted it to be, not "it can't possibly be smaller than this, because we have so many ideas to fill it up with." That plus the landscape felt annoyingly static and "dead" with no dangerous animals and no people outside fixed camps. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:33, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::I totally agree, I was also annoyed by that. I mean it would have been cool if you were stalking at night and you attacked by a pack of hyenas or that there was actually some '''people''' instead of just psychotic brigands. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:10, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:I read somewhere that the player's name is Jason Brody, if anyone wants to use that information --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:05, 23 December 2011 (CST)

The source of these problems is the fact that FC2 and FC3 is are console-centric games. And consoles are running on, by PC gaming standards, hopelessly outdated hardware (circa 2005). The relative lack of RAM and processing power means that open-world games like these are seriously held back; changes to the world are rarely permanent, and it's very difficult for the console to remember what you've done (such as items stored) in locations that aren't fixed. Sometimes it's just a matter of scope and dedication. [[Boiling Point: Road to Hell]] was only on a 25 x 25 km map, but featured drivable vehicles of all kinds (in which you could store almost any amount of items) such as boats, patrol ships, single-engine planes, and leisure/combat helicopters, factions that fought one another and treated you accordingly with respect to your reputation, upgradeable weapons that decayed at a realistic rate (you could fire 1000s of rounds and end up with a 10% chance of jamming), an RPG system that increased your skills with weaponry the more you used them and your body stats the more you ran or carried heavy stuff, and jungles filled with animals out for your blood or whom you could hunt to sell their corpses or parts to traders. By contrast, the STALKER series only got a functioning faction wars system starting with the second game, never had drivable vehicles, and had no upgrades or repairs for its weapons until the second game. The STALKER series did, however, have an A-Life system that tracked the presence and deaths of mutants and NPCs behind your back, even if you weren't in the area (something that has rarely appeared in other games, the only other example I know of being the X Universe series of space free-roam games, PC only). It's sad, really--there are more fans of console games than ever, but many don't realise just how gimped their games are compared to what could be accomplished on PCs running current hardware, much like how Crysis 2 was badly scaled back from the original. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I dunno, it strikes me more that FC2's problem was in how they approached map design and the lack of things to do. Just Cause 2 is also designed with consoles in mind, but it's more fun because it has a better interaction of game mechanics and more memorable characters. In FC2 if you took all of one faction leader's dialog and gave it to the other you'd find it hard to tell it was wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== New Trailer Out Today ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYPnDDr7sMk Here.] - What are your thoughts, guys? Obligatory dubstep for some reason, as a cinematic trailer it looks pretty awesome. -- Long Fallen 16:24, 15 February 2012 (CST)

This does look pretty good, but doesn't Vaas or whatever the bad guy's called use a standard M1911A1? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 05:50, 16 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah it appears so. Its definetly not the Kimber Warrior because it doesnt have the white grips, and appears to have a black or possibly blued finish -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 13:08, 20 February 2012 (CST)

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Oa8Q7RV78&feature=player_embedded Leaked trailer, showing actual gameplay!] -- Long Fallen 17:12, 20 February 2012 (CST)

== Most anticipated thing about FC3... ==

Most definitely the page Evil Tim is going to do for it. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 17:45, 15 February 2012 (CST)

Id like to second that. [[User:G36Ghost|G36Ghost]] 18:27, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

== New gameplay, New guns ==

If you look at this gameplay footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxTXv4SbEZ4&feature=related

You can see a couple new guns (A shotgun and what I think is a DShK machine gun), plus a grenade (Which looks like an M26) - [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 18:27, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun looks like it could be either a Mossberg 500 Mariner or a Remington 870 Marine Magnum, with a ribbed barrel and a accessory rail mounted ontop of the reciever. You get a good look at the ejection port at 4:37 of the video. What is interesting is, the sling is wrapped around the reciever despite it having full stock as the ingame icon shows.

Also in the video, if you pause really quickly at 0:07, the AK looks different. The wooden furniture looks more pale than in the E3 trailer, also the magazine is different in that there were vertical lines going up and down on the magazine in the E3 trailer but now the lines are going horizontal; a good shot of this is at 0:19 when the player reloads, look between the player's hand and the reciever of the gun and you'll see.

As for the DShK, I'm not sure but it looks like it to me. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 22:02, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun appears to be a Remington 870, the handguard is wrong for a Mossberg and the ejection port matches the Remington as well. As for the heavy machine gun, I'm going to say DShK as well. Saw a lot more of the customized AK-103 as well, as well as HE-Frag hand grenades, either M67's or M26's. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:25, 21 February 2012 (CST)

New trailer. Somewhat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGrWuw5CEgM&feature=plcp&context=C41236b0VDvjVQa1PpcFNiqixtTbtxFd1-Gkazt_wHZG5RBOCYPLk%3D

You can see a Vz.61 Skorpion at 1:36 and a blink-and-you-miss-it shot of some unknown gun at 1:47. A TDI Vector maybe? -- Long Fallen 18:42, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

Shows the barrel-end of a TDI Vector during the middle of a reload animation. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 19:23, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

I managed to get a screenshot of a gun at about 2:14, seriously hard to see though.

Check this out:

[http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/084/f/e/far_cry_3_unknown_gun_by_timaman-d4tveo7.png]

No idea what it could be, but it shows that at least one gun is on aftermarket ironsights. Lets hope they don't do a CoD Black Ops and put them on every smg and rifle in the game. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 10:40, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

-- My money's on the TDI Vector shown earlier in the video, check the spent brass... looks like .45 ACP to me. Definitely not an AR, that's what I thought at first. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:55, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

At the end of that video it shows a Type 10 flare gun as a preorder bonus. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:54, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

[http://www.gametrailers.com/video/teamplay-interview-far-cry-3/728785] New gameplay trailer, some new guns in there. Spotted a Makarov PM, PP-19 Bizon, some M4 variant, and what looks like an Ultimax 100. Also, another pre-order bonus offers a "skinned M700" (Remington 700 with camo probably, and some screenshots depict a SPAS-12, Mini-14, Remington 700, and a rather odd looking MP5 being used.
[http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_280646_thumb_wide620.jpg]
[http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_280649_thumb_wide620.jpg]
[http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/118/1188467/far-cry-3-20110817104323708_640w.jpg]
[http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/122/1222265/far-cry-3-20120404085727938_640w.jpg]

== Multiplayer gameplay New Weapons ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-jo-AX_7V4] --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 06:26, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

There's an icon of an MG that I'm unsure of at about 1:18. A KAC maybe? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 11:48, 14 April 2012 (CDT)
:I agree. Also, at 1:26... Makarov 6P9? [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 17:12, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

There's some new guns in the screenshots below. Not sure what that first LMG is, but in the second screenshot, that looks like a FAMAS G2. It doesn't seem to have the larger trigger guard though:
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/i403204-8/far-cry-3-multiplayer-far-cry-3-multiplayer.html#a375541

:The machine gun in the first image is a PKM with an RIS and a different muzzle break. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:54, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

:Has everyone forgotten about this page? There have been numerous weapons in the trailers after the last edit.--[[User:Speo16|Speo16]] ([[User talk:Speo16|talk]]) 16:07, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

== E3 has come, and with it comes more weapons ==

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731423

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/730867

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731397

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731100

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/730899 (kind of NSFW)

Nice variety of new weapons here. Don't know what that bolt action sniper rifle is in the first video however.

I was gonna put this down as a Daewoo K3 (or an M249) until I saw the STK Ultimax 100 Mk3. However it looked too big and had the stock so was not wanting to put it under either until someone else had had a look. Thanks -

[[File:6P9andMKG.jpg]]

Same video there's also a flame thrower as a secondary weapon. Doesn't look much like the LPO-50 or whatever from FC2 - 1:05

During the gameplay there seems to be an underslung grenade launcher on the SIG, I was just wondering if anyone could ID this. It could be the proper SIG 5040/5140 or perhaps an M203 if they are wanting it for other weapons and just reuse the model

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731513

A better look at the flamethrower, and an icon for a submachine gun that looks like a M4 Spectre at the 4:28 mark.

Could be an M4A1 or a HK416, looks too short to be a standard M4A1

[[File:M4A1side.jpg]]

It looks to have a monolithic-style upper receiver; notice how there's no seam where the receiver becomes the handguard. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:21, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

There are a few new trailers that have just been released I noticed quite a few new weapons in them. Definitely worth a look.

==Walkthrough==

The walkthrough is up on Game Anyone, as expected. Unlike the Max Payne 3 and Black Ops II leaks, the game has actually been released in Europe as far as I know and thus it's not against the rules to post screencaps or information. So far it appears that a .44 Magnum revolver is in the game, though I can't tell which one. There's also a SOCOM 16, correctly semi-auto. The Remington is listed as a 700. The flare gun is back, with a gold finish, and they added a recurve bow that can use explosive and flaming arrows. The flamethrower is back, but it looks like a fictional design. The starting shotgun purports to be a Baikal MP-133 (as the M133), though I can't tell if it's wrong. The in-game guidebook provides background on all weapons and sometimes justification for their purpose; the Kimbers were purchased to an exact specification for a private army, and Vaas (the villain) bought the Baikals in bulk. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:05, 29 November 2012 (EST)

It doesn't appear that the Makarov comes standard with the silencer; it's still got the first part attached to the gun, but you need to purchase the second part as an upgrade. Odd, but it does skip over the problem some games have where an addon turns the gun into a unique variant instead of just attaching something. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:47, 29 November 2012 (EST)

:It certainly isn't out in the UK yet (release is the 30th), so I'd hold your horses if I were you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:38, 29 November 2012 (EST)
:: Checked again. November 29th (today) is the Australian release date. Unfortunately, it'll probably take several years for anyone in Australia to save enough money to purchase a copy. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 19:32, 29 November 2012 (EST)

:::Well, I'm downloading my copy now despite Norton Antivirus' apparent dislike of Ubisoft's downloader, so we'll see. Though given video upload and encoding times, I doubt you'd get a release-day upload of a long game like this without either haxing being involved or the player having no clue what they're doing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:38, 30 November 2012 (EST)

::::I can tell you the flamethrower is still an LPO-50, they've just dressed it up; if you look at it on the pause menu you can see the ignitor cluster at the muzzle, the pistol grip, and the fuel tank selector. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:01, 30 November 2012 (EST)

== Weapons from the Wiki ==
These are pictures from the game's Wikia Page. I can't figure out how to post them on the main page, I can't remember how to post the pictures themselves. A lot of weapons posted on this page appear to be missing from the Wikia page but that's probably due to lack of updates. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 00:06, 30 November 2012 (EST)

'''Pistols'''

1911: The Kimber .45 in the game. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/1/16/Kimber_Warrior.jpg

.44 Magnum: Appears to be some kind of revolver, sorry for the bad quality. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/c/c1/Untitled5.png

There doesn't seem to be a page for the Desert Eagle.

'''Assault Rifles'''

P416: The HK 416 that appears ingame. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/d/d8/Untitled6.png

MS16: A modern version of a M1 Garand with a hideous camo job and the cocking handle appears to be on the wrong side or Jason is using one built for left handed people. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/0/0c/FarCry3_M1Garand.jpg

'''Sniper Rifles'''

M-700: A (possible) Remington 700 in game. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/8/85/Remington_M700.jpg

:I like how you refer to the [[Springfield Armory M1A|M1A]] as a modernized M1 Garand. You could just say M14. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:39, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I apologize about that. I wrote this section at 1 am where I'm at and I was very tired. I didn't see the magazine behind the player's hand and the Far Cry Wikia said that weapon was a Garand. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 09:20, 30 November 2012 (EST)

== Anyone else really disappointed in the lack of weapon details? ==

For a game with otherwise a ton of effort put into it, why are almost all magazines empty? Why is the bolt on the left side of several weapons? Why does the M1887 not seem to be cocked on empty reload? And so on ....

Most of this could been done in less than an hour had they actually tried. What work is that of a few magazine textures? Instead half of the weapons are now unusable. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 10:10, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Aw wait, the bolts are on the left side of the weapons?! Which one? Damn it, I thought the developers learned their lessons about that crap. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:50, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I think the bolt of the Dragunov is on the left, but i am not certain as my copy of the game has not arrived yet, but i have clearly seen the M1A has a left-sided bolt. Ironically, it is also one of few box-magazine weapons that actually has visible rounds in the magazine when reloading.

And bizarrely enough, the AK-103 seems to have visible rounds when taking the magazine out of the weapon, but not when inserting a new one. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 17:45, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Looking at all the caps we got now, it doesn't look like any of them have the charging handle on the left side [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:47, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Vaas is holding a Glock like gun with an external hammer and is missing the things in the front to take down the slide [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:25, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== Single players weapons ==
Some of the weapons listed here, do not appear in single player campaign, or maybe are completely removed from the final game, this should be noted no? Among them the desert eagle, Vector , spas-12, galil, hk416, there is however a heavy sniper rifle used during one mission to cover the characters friend, I couldn't identify it only the barrel and the scope is seen.

Yaay, Frank and his amazing collection of exploding rust will ride again. :D [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:From what I saw in the demo at E3 (I watched Microsoft's press conference live yesterday), it looks like this game will be set on an island like the earlier games in the series. Frankly I'm surprised no one had beat me to the punch and made a page for the game already. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:59, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::I'd heard of it being in development, but I wasn't aware there was any actual footage of weapons in it yet. I guess I'll have to start saving for another PC and set aside 40 or so hours to screencap it like last time. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:05, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:::Here's an "insane" walkthrough video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXHmWRziHA [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:26, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

::::Waaaaaaiiiit a minute...I see a crashed Zero, ancient ruins, and they're talking about this island's "dark secret." Looks like this is going to be an ''actual'' sequel to ''Far Cry''. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:39, 8 June 2011 (CDT)
:::::Loved the first game, so I hope it will awesome. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:47, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== AK ==

The AK has a muzzlebrake, but the mag looks like a 7.62mm mag instead of the straighter 5.45mm mag. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:32, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

:If you watch the video, you'll notice that all the features of the weapon except the magazine match the AK-74 (handguard & stock, receiver cover, muzzle brake, front sight assembly), with the magazine being the only part that doesn't match. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 10:42, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

Dang DinoHunter2! You did '''EXACTLY''' what I was going to do, I was considering changing it to a AK-103 like half a hour ago and the description change is the same as I was thinking, good job! :D - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:23, 16 June 2011 (CDT)

:You're welcome Mr. Wolf :D - [[User:DinoHunter2|DinoHunter2]] 18:18, 28 June 2011 (CDT)

== Pistol ==

It's a modern 1911 with a under-barrel rail. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:21, 7 June 2011 (CDT)
:Never mind, I was too slow. :P - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:23, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

YEY! Finally a Kimber in a game! I'm looking forward to this game regardless now :D --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 20:47, 7 June 2011 (CDT)

[[File:FC3KIMBLER2.JPG|thumb|none|600px|A Kimber Warrior in ''Far Cry 3'']]

Heres an interesting thing, if you look at this wallpaper [http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/ncsa/FarCry3/wallpapers/fc3-wallpaper-1920x1200.jpg] you will see a guy with a Glock, however, you can see a HAMMER if you zoom in! uh oh. At least he has good trigger discipline. :) -m82a1

== SVD? ==

An alternate demo walkthrough features what looks to be an SVD or one of its derivatives. Anyone care to give this video a look? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_9fsXPNs34

On a side note, the same video confirms the M67 in game. The throwing animation is actually kinda cool, as you see the spoon being released before the grenade is thrown.

*Looks like an actual Dragunov, it's got that bend in the safety lever that the Romak doesn't have, and it looks like they've given it the right handguard and no X stamping on the magazine this time. Of course it's a lefty Dragonuv, but I think that's to be expected. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:20, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
::Maybe it's the Far Cry 2 model with a new texture, that might explain why it's a lefty gun, hope that changes in the final game, the other guns are righty guns. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:51, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Also, in both that video and the one I posted above, the Blackhawk helicopter the player hijacks is shot down by what appears to be some kind of rocket launcher. You can't see the guy firing it clearly, and I only saw a split-second glimpse of the rocket milliseconds before it strikes the aircraft, but I think it's possibly an [[RPG-7]] or Type 69. I don't want to add it to the page until more concrete proof is found though. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 09:32, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

Here is a image of the rocket launcher:
[[File:FC3RL.JPG|thumb|none|500px|]]
--[[User:Flavio|Flavio]] 14:38, 11 June 2011 (CDT)
:Definitely a RPG-7/Type 69, most likely a RPG-7. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 15:42, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

== Will brass fly left still? ==

I'm wondering if these guns will be like the previous game and have the brass eject left [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:49, 11 June 2011 (CDT)

*Well, so far the AK and Kimber look like they're right-handed and only the SVD looks like it's a lefty model. Now, interestingly, I'd heard that the developers had seen our ''Far Cry 2'' page (some podcast or other had a guy saying some guy on the team, I think the director, had pointed him to it) and it's actually looking like they took note: for example, they've fixed the handguard of the SVD, the magazine, the scope now fills the screen to avoid that issue where the area outside the scope was zoomed in too, the reticle now has the numbers on it (though it's missing the lower line of the rangefinder and the 1.7, and has one too many chevrons), and he holds it at the hip like the stock's under his arm rather than inserted partway into his shoulder. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:42, 12 June 2011 (CDT)
:Now if only Infinity Ward and Treyarch would follow that lead. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:45, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

== Recent news ==

I've heard from the UK Official PS3 Magazine that the game world is supposedly going to be ten times the size of the world in ''Far Cry 2''. To be honest, this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence; one of the biggest problems with ''FC2'' was the size of the world seemed to have been decided in some board meeting before they had a single idea down as to what they were going to put in all that space. The result was a game that had you going five miles from A to B simply because they wanted you to see all the effort they'd put into the huge map. It can be done (see ''Just Cause 2'') but it makes me nervous hearing they're on "look at how big our map is" rather than "we have so many great ideas the map has to be at least this big." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:08, 25 August 2011 (CDT)

Ten times the size? I lost intrest in Far Cry 2 because the game is not an FPS, is a driving game with peolpe trying to kill you at the checkpoints! OK, I'm exagerating but it's way to big.--[[User:MAndolin|MAndolin]] 08:35, 14 September 2011 (CDT)

But on the flip side, bigger maps can mean more space for more content. It's not the size of the maps that is the problem, it's what they use the size for. Far Cry 2, spatially, I thought was lovely. The driving and auto-attack enemies got old, but there's nothing about the space that seemed to be a problem. There was always somewhere to go and something to do. If they made travel more risky/interesting, and enemies didn't auto-attack you at every turn... it would make it more interesting. Furthermore, other methods of travel... such as helicopters, planes, etc. would do a world of good. Also, they need to focus on the end game more... after you've finished up the quests, that's it. There needs to be more repeatable content. Houses need to be more dynamic and upgradeable, hopefully with actual windows... not just instances you enter. That, and they need to expand more on the "hunt" and stealth aspect. It was awesome in Far Cry 2 just picking apart groups of enemies, but sucked because they -automatically- knew where you were 90% of the time... negating all stealth. It seems this has been vastly improved in the little footage we've seen, and the inventory system seems to be expanded as well. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 21:22, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:Naw, the problem as I see it was in FC2 before they did ''anything'' they had that 50 square km number set in stone. This led to the problem of just having normal-sized quests with waypoints that were ridiculously far apart from one another; the result was basically a 10 hour game which had another 20 hours of driving and random fights thrown on top. Not that there was anything wrong with the combat mechanics, but one key point of an open-world game is you should be able to choose how you address a situation; always having the enemies set to max aggression / kill you got wearying. A good example of a different approach would be the checkpoint halfway through Cordon in ''Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl''; there, you could shoot everyone. Or you could sneak down an anomaly-filled corridor nearby and bypass it. Or risk radiation and wild animals to use a gap in the fence way down the railway track in the other direction. Or you could put your gun away and bribe the officer to let you pass. There were consequences to all of these; for example, if you killed them all you'd then have to repel a large group of Bandits by yourself rather than the guys at the checkpoint attacking them when they got close.

:Like I said, the trouble in FC2 was that number was how big they wanted it to be, not "it can't possibly be smaller than this, because we have so many ideas to fill it up with." That plus the landscape felt annoyingly static and "dead" with no dangerous animals and no people outside fixed camps. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:33, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

::I totally agree, I was also annoyed by that. I mean it would have been cool if you were stalking at night and you attacked by a pack of hyenas or that there was actually some '''people''' instead of just psychotic brigands. :\ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 22:10, 18 September 2011 (CDT)

:I read somewhere that the player's name is Jason Brody, if anyone wants to use that information --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 10:05, 23 December 2011 (CST)

The source of these problems is the fact that FC2 and FC3 is are console-centric games. And consoles are running on, by PC gaming standards, hopelessly outdated hardware (circa 2005). The relative lack of RAM and processing power means that open-world games like these are seriously held back; changes to the world are rarely permanent, and it's very difficult for the console to remember what you've done (such as items stored) in locations that aren't fixed. Sometimes it's just a matter of scope and dedication. [[Boiling Point: Road to Hell]] was only on a 25 x 25 km map, but featured drivable vehicles of all kinds (in which you could store almost any amount of items) such as boats, patrol ships, single-engine planes, and leisure/combat helicopters, factions that fought one another and treated you accordingly with respect to your reputation, upgradeable weapons that decayed at a realistic rate (you could fire 1000s of rounds and end up with a 10% chance of jamming), an RPG system that increased your skills with weaponry the more you used them and your body stats the more you ran or carried heavy stuff, and jungles filled with animals out for your blood or whom you could hunt to sell their corpses or parts to traders. By contrast, the STALKER series only got a functioning faction wars system starting with the second game, never had drivable vehicles, and had no upgrades or repairs for its weapons until the second game. The STALKER series did, however, have an A-Life system that tracked the presence and deaths of mutants and NPCs behind your back, even if you weren't in the area (something that has rarely appeared in other games, the only other example I know of being the X Universe series of space free-roam games, PC only). It's sad, really--there are more fans of console games than ever, but many don't realise just how gimped their games are compared to what could be accomplished on PCs running current hardware, much like how Crysis 2 was badly scaled back from the original. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:58, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:I dunno, it strikes me more that FC2's problem was in how they approached map design and the lack of things to do. Just Cause 2 is also designed with consoles in mind, but it's more fun because it has a better interaction of game mechanics and more memorable characters. In FC2 if you took all of one faction leader's dialog and gave it to the other you'd find it hard to tell it was wrong. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== New Trailer Out Today ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYPnDDr7sMk Here.] - What are your thoughts, guys? Obligatory dubstep for some reason, as a cinematic trailer it looks pretty awesome. -- Long Fallen 16:24, 15 February 2012 (CST)

This does look pretty good, but doesn't Vaas or whatever the bad guy's called use a standard M1911A1? --[[User:Taurus96|Taurus96]] 05:50, 16 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah it appears so. Its definetly not the Kimber Warrior because it doesnt have the white grips, and appears to have a black or possibly blued finish -- [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 13:08, 20 February 2012 (CST)

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Oa8Q7RV78&feature=player_embedded Leaked trailer, showing actual gameplay!] -- Long Fallen 17:12, 20 February 2012 (CST)

== Most anticipated thing about FC3... ==

Most definitely the page Evil Tim is going to do for it. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 17:45, 15 February 2012 (CST)

Id like to second that. [[User:G36Ghost|G36Ghost]] 18:27, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

== New gameplay, New guns ==

If you look at this gameplay footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxTXv4SbEZ4&feature=related

You can see a couple new guns (A shotgun and what I think is a DShK machine gun), plus a grenade (Which looks like an M26) - [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 18:27, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun looks like it could be either a Mossberg 500 Mariner or a Remington 870 Marine Magnum, with a ribbed barrel and a accessory rail mounted ontop of the reciever. You get a good look at the ejection port at 4:37 of the video. What is interesting is, the sling is wrapped around the reciever despite it having full stock as the ingame icon shows.

Also in the video, if you pause really quickly at 0:07, the AK looks different. The wooden furniture looks more pale than in the E3 trailer, also the magazine is different in that there were vertical lines going up and down on the magazine in the E3 trailer but now the lines are going horizontal; a good shot of this is at 0:19 when the player reloads, look between the player's hand and the reciever of the gun and you'll see.

As for the DShK, I'm not sure but it looks like it to me. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 22:02, 21 February 2012 (CST)

The shotgun appears to be a Remington 870, the handguard is wrong for a Mossberg and the ejection port matches the Remington as well. As for the heavy machine gun, I'm going to say DShK as well. Saw a lot more of the customized AK-103 as well, as well as HE-Frag hand grenades, either M67's or M26's. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 22:25, 21 February 2012 (CST)

New trailer. Somewhat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGrWuw5CEgM&feature=plcp&context=C41236b0VDvjVQa1PpcFNiqixtTbtxFd1-Gkazt_wHZG5RBOCYPLk%3D

You can see a Vz.61 Skorpion at 1:36 and a blink-and-you-miss-it shot of some unknown gun at 1:47. A TDI Vector maybe? -- Long Fallen 18:42, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

Shows the barrel-end of a TDI Vector during the middle of a reload animation. [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 19:23, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

I managed to get a screenshot of a gun at about 2:14, seriously hard to see though.

Check this out:

[http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/084/f/e/far_cry_3_unknown_gun_by_timaman-d4tveo7.png]

No idea what it could be, but it shows that at least one gun is on aftermarket ironsights. Lets hope they don't do a CoD Black Ops and put them on every smg and rifle in the game. [[User:Timaman|Timaman]] 10:40, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

-- My money's on the TDI Vector shown earlier in the video, check the spent brass... looks like .45 ACP to me. Definitely not an AR, that's what I thought at first. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 19:55, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

At the end of that video it shows a Type 10 flare gun as a preorder bonus. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 13:54, 24 March 2012 (CDT)

[http://www.gametrailers.com/video/teamplay-interview-far-cry-3/728785] New gameplay trailer, some new guns in there. Spotted a Makarov PM, PP-19 Bizon, some M4 variant, and what looks like an Ultimax 100. Also, another pre-order bonus offers a "skinned M700" (Remington 700 with camo probably, and some screenshots depict a SPAS-12, Mini-14, Remington 700, and a rather odd looking MP5 being used.
[http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_280646_thumb_wide620.jpg]
[http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_280649_thumb_wide620.jpg]
[http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/118/1188467/far-cry-3-20110817104323708_640w.jpg]
[http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/122/1222265/far-cry-3-20120404085727938_640w.jpg]

== Multiplayer gameplay New Weapons ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-jo-AX_7V4] --[[User:Mateogala|Mateogala]] 06:26, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

There's an icon of an MG that I'm unsure of at about 1:18. A KAC maybe? [[User:Jimmoy|Jimmoy]] 11:48, 14 April 2012 (CDT)
:I agree. Also, at 1:26... Makarov 6P9? [[User:Krakydak|Krakydak]] 17:12, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

There's some new guns in the screenshots below. Not sure what that first LMG is, but in the second screenshot, that looks like a FAMAS G2. It doesn't seem to have the larger trigger guard though:
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/i403204-8/far-cry-3-multiplayer-far-cry-3-multiplayer.html#a375541

:The machine gun in the first image is a PKM with an RIS and a different muzzle break. [[User:Run its a T-55|Run its a T-55]] 21:54, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

:Has everyone forgotten about this page? There have been numerous weapons in the trailers after the last edit.--[[User:Speo16|Speo16]] ([[User talk:Speo16|talk]]) 16:07, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

== E3 has come, and with it comes more weapons ==

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731423

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/730867

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731397

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731100

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/730899 (kind of NSFW)

Nice variety of new weapons here. Don't know what that bolt action sniper rifle is in the first video however.

I was gonna put this down as a Daewoo K3 (or an M249) until I saw the STK Ultimax 100 Mk3. However it looked too big and had the stock so was not wanting to put it under either until someone else had had a look. Thanks -

[[File:6P9andMKG.jpg]]

Same video there's also a flame thrower as a secondary weapon. Doesn't look much like the LPO-50 or whatever from FC2 - 1:05

During the gameplay there seems to be an underslung grenade launcher on the SIG, I was just wondering if anyone could ID this. It could be the proper SIG 5040/5140 or perhaps an M203 if they are wanting it for other weapons and just reuse the model

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-far-cry-3/731513

A better look at the flamethrower, and an icon for a submachine gun that looks like a M4 Spectre at the 4:28 mark.

Could be an M4A1 or a HK416, looks too short to be a standard M4A1

[[File:M4A1side.jpg]]

It looks to have a monolithic-style upper receiver; notice how there's no seam where the receiver becomes the handguard. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:21, 7 June 2012 (CDT)

There are a few new trailers that have just been released I noticed quite a few new weapons in them. Definitely worth a look.

==Walkthrough==

The walkthrough is up on Game Anyone, as expected. Unlike the Max Payne 3 and Black Ops II leaks, the game has actually been released in Europe as far as I know and thus it's not against the rules to post screencaps or information. So far it appears that a .44 Magnum revolver is in the game, though I can't tell which one. There's also a SOCOM 16, correctly semi-auto. The Remington is listed as a 700. The flare gun is back, with a gold finish, and they added a recurve bow that can use explosive and flaming arrows. The flamethrower is back, but it looks like a fictional design. The starting shotgun purports to be a Baikal MP-133 (as the M133), though I can't tell if it's wrong. The in-game guidebook provides background on all weapons and sometimes justification for their purpose; the Kimbers were purchased to an exact specification for a private army, and Vaas (the villain) bought the Baikals in bulk. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:05, 29 November 2012 (EST)

It doesn't appear that the Makarov comes standard with the silencer; it's still got the first part attached to the gun, but you need to purchase the second part as an upgrade. Odd, but it does skip over the problem some games have where an addon turns the gun into a unique variant instead of just attaching something. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 02:47, 29 November 2012 (EST)

:It certainly isn't out in the UK yet (release is the 30th), so I'd hold your horses if I were you. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:38, 29 November 2012 (EST)
:: Checked again. November 29th (today) is the Australian release date. Unfortunately, it'll probably take several years for anyone in Australia to save enough money to purchase a copy. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] ([[User talk:Chitoryu12|talk]]) 19:32, 29 November 2012 (EST)

:::Well, I'm downloading my copy now despite Norton Antivirus' apparent dislike of Ubisoft's downloader, so we'll see. Though given video upload and encoding times, I doubt you'd get a release-day upload of a long game like this without either haxing being involved or the player having no clue what they're doing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:38, 30 November 2012 (EST)

::::I can tell you the flamethrower is still an LPO-50, they've just dressed it up; if you look at it on the pause menu you can see the ignitor cluster at the muzzle, the pistol grip, and the fuel tank selector. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:01, 30 November 2012 (EST)

== Weapons from the Wiki ==
These are pictures from the game's Wikia Page. I can't figure out how to post them on the main page, I can't remember how to post the pictures themselves. A lot of weapons posted on this page appear to be missing from the Wikia page but that's probably due to lack of updates. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 00:06, 30 November 2012 (EST)

'''Pistols'''

1911: The Kimber .45 in the game. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/1/16/Kimber_Warrior.jpg

.44 Magnum: Appears to be some kind of revolver, sorry for the bad quality. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/c/c1/Untitled5.png

There doesn't seem to be a page for the Desert Eagle.

'''Assault Rifles'''

P416: The HK 416 that appears ingame. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/d/d8/Untitled6.png

MS16: A modern version of a M1 Garand with a hideous camo job and the cocking handle appears to be on the wrong side or Jason is using one built for left handed people. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/0/0c/FarCry3_M1Garand.jpg

'''Sniper Rifles'''

M-700: A (possible) Remington 700 in game. http://images.wikia.com/farcry/images/8/85/Remington_M700.jpg

:I like how you refer to the [[Springfield Armory M1A|M1A]] as a modernized M1 Garand. You could just say M14. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 01:39, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I apologize about that. I wrote this section at 1 am where I'm at and I was very tired. I didn't see the magazine behind the player's hand and the Far Cry Wikia said that weapon was a Garand. --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] ([[User talk:Bad Boy|talk]]) 09:20, 30 November 2012 (EST)

== Anyone else really disappointed in the lack of weapon details? ==

For a game with otherwise a ton of effort put into it, why are almost all magazines empty? Why is the bolt on the left side of several weapons? Why does the M1887 not seem to be cocked on empty reload? And so on ....

Most of this could been done in less than an hour had they actually tried. What work is that of a few magazine textures? Instead half of the weapons are now unusable. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 10:10, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Aw wait, the bolts are on the left side of the weapons?! Which one? Damn it, I thought the developers learned their lessons about that crap. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:50, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I think the bolt of the Dragunov is on the left, but i am not certain as my copy of the game has not arrived yet, but i have clearly seen the M1A has a left-sided bolt. Ironically, it is also one of few box-magazine weapons that actually has visible rounds in the magazine when reloading.

And bizarrely enough, the AK-103 seems to have visible rounds when taking the magazine out of the weapon, but not when inserting a new one. [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 17:45, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Looking at all the caps we got now, it doesn't look like any of them have the charging handle on the left side [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 18:47, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Vaas is holding a Glock like gun with an external hammer and is missing the things in the front to take down the slide [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 23:25, 2 December 2012 (EST)

== MP5 Handguard ==

The vented handguard seen on the MP5 is an actual aftermarket upgrade made by Heckler & Koch for MP5s/HK94s and can be seen for sale [http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/MP5-HK94-Horizontal-Vented-Wide-Forearm-p1842.htm here]. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 15:51, 3 December 2012 (EST)

==416 might not be a 416==

I think we're jumping into conclusions that this is an HK416 solely on the face that the name of the rifle is called the P416. The rails and the lower receiver doesn't look like the 416 and there's actually an extra thing on the lower receiver that I've only see on POF AR-15s. Stocks, pistol grip and muzzle device aside, they look the same. Even the curved trigger guard is exactly the same. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 22:05, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Here's one to compare to the one in the game.

[[Image:POFAR-15.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]
[[Image:FC3-HK416-1.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]

:Yeah, that does look like it. The "extra thing" is a [http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/gun-parts-and-accessories/trigger-hammer-pins/m-p15-22-non-rotate-trigger-hammer-pins-gen-2-black.html KNS Precision non-rotating trigger hammer pin] set, it's a little bit of metal on each side that joins replacement trigger and hammer pins together and prevents them from rotating to decrease wear. They're also right with the title, the select fire version seems to be referred to as Patriot Ordinance Factory 416, POF416 or P416 (the semi-auto version being P415). Sneaky! [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:30, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Yeah, more like this one [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 08:27, 4 December 2012 (EST)

[[Image:POF416-15.jpg|thumb|none|700px|]]

:Well, that's a P415 (semi-auto), the ones I've uploaded are select-fire 416s according to POF's website. I've swapped the black one for a version with their NP3 silver finish on the upper and lower, but these also have the benefit of having the same handguard as the one in the game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 10:21, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Landmine handles ==

I think a possible, but slightly unlikely reason for the carrying handles could be that the handles could be used to remove landmines from the ground without the risk of detonating them, if the landmines need to be removed for whatever reason. - [[User:1morey]] December 4, 2012 11:49 AM (EST)
:Naw, usually mines are designed to be as difficult to remove as possible, since the whole point of a minefield is it is neither easy to pass without clearing or easy to clear without spending a really long time doing so and tying up a lot of resources. Ottawa-compliant mines either self-destruct or become inert over time. About the only use I could think of for them on a mine that small would be using them to apply pressure to the mine and twist it to push it into the ground without risking slipping and hitting the detonator, but then the easiest way to do that is to leave inserting the fuze and / or removing the mine's arming pin until after you've placed it. Also, the in-game mines are proximity fuzed, which means there's no way lifting handles would be of any use to anyone. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 12:03, 4 December 2012 (EST)

== Not an M40A5 ==

The M-700 in the game is a '''Remington 700 Export''', not an M40A5. The M40A5 has a flash suppressor, McMillan stock and does not have a front sight. The in-game rifle has a HS stock with cheek rest and a plain barrel. It lacks the rear iron sight, tho.
[[Image:700 XP.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Remington 700 Export with Leupold Mark 4 scope and Harris LM-S bipod - .308 Winchester]]
[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 15:28, 7 December 2012 (EST)

:I was considering changing it (and have done), but the front end of the stock is rather bigger and squarer than the HS and looks more like it belongs on a McMillan, and I didn't realise there was a standard 700 variant with a detachable magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 03:30, 8 December 2012 (EST)

== MP5 rear sight ==

As far as I see this the rear sight is heavily influenced by the rear sights that you can find on the early MP5 prototypes, late HK STG CETME and G3 prototypes/early issue. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 05:19, 8 December 2012 (EST)
:Actually, this had been bugging me because I knew I'd seen a sight almost exactly like it in another game, then I realised:
:[[Image:Homefront-QBZ-New.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
:That seems the most likely source of it, someone on the dev team probably either played the game or saw an image and figured it'd look good on their MP5. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 02:39, 9 December 2012 (EST)
:: I think you are right but still, the sight looks extremely like the ones on the prototypes ( the triangular shape of the walls) just the position was shifted from the middle of the housing to the rear where today you find drum sights. --[[User:DAN11|DAN11]] ([[User talk:DAN11|talk]]) 18:44, 9 December 2012 (EST)

==The mercenary's weapon load out ==

Just to nitpick, I wonder why none of the obviously more highly trained mercenaries not wearing more stuff like optics on their guns but really they act and sound just like the AK wielding thugs on the other island. I wish they programed them to act more professionally. Sam was even carrying an AK at one point. I thought they all carry the 416s to distinguish between the other guys. Would also be nice if they were carrying other "western" weapons like the MP5 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 14:20, 10 December 2012 (EST)

== AK rifle naming ==

Just don't seem the "AK-47" featured in the game is a true IzhMash AK-103 - for such it is lacking collapsible stock and plastic furniture. Ingame it is refered only as an AK-47, and I saw no reference to it being an AK-103. PS - The textures on a weapon's receiver in-game read the gun's model as "REPURPOSED AK 7,62 CAL.". So may be change the naming to "Custom AK-rifle" in article?
:Well yeah, it's not a standard AK-103, it's one with a fixed stock and wood furnishings. Since swapping out furnishings isn't exactly major surgery and there's plenty of aftermarket junk for the AK series even in real life, I don't really think that's reason enough to say it's not a 103 given its other features. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:54, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:As an addition, here's the photoshop I removed from the main page for being a photoshop:
:[[Image:Far Cry 3 AK-103.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-103 7.62x39mm with side-mounted RIS rail & [[AK-74]] style stock, handguard, and pistol grip as seen in ''[[Far Cry 3]]'']]
:It's custom, but it's still just a 103 with the furnishings changed. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:59, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:: Well, the point is that AK-100s series are distinguished with having black plastic foregrip and plastic collapsible stock. Expect for the mag the gun look exactly like second-series AK-74 rifles pre-1991. AK-103 is well a patented product of IzhMash OJSC, and simply re-bored AK-74 made by unknown manufacturer wouldn't count as an AK-103. The game developers also never named the rifle as an AK-103. So I still suggest changing the name to AK-74, adding the fact that the caliber of the gun was never explicitly stated - all assault rifles in Far Cry 3 use the same "assault rifle ammunition". --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] ([[User talk:RussianTrooper|talk]]) 16:32, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:::Well sure, but it has a 7.62mm AK magazine on the model, so that rather narrows it down. Furnishings aren't really good other than for saying it isn't a factory version, which we've already said. Mainly with game IDs you go with "if this were a real gun, what would you start with" and in this case that would be to take an AK-103 and replace the furnishings. And come on, we call that, um, ''thing'' in the game a Minimi, so it's hardly a push to say this is a 103. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 01:20, 17 December 2012 (EST)

The AK74M in BF3 doesn't have a hinged stock either, so should it count as such? Frankly, I think the rifle in this game is the 103 as the magazine is a curved 7.62x39 and the modern gas tube/barrel assembly. I think it is best as is, certainly not a 5.45 AK74.-AgentGumby
: The point with the AK-rifle from battlefied 3 was that it was explicitly called as an "AK-74M" in-game. This rifle called only an "AK-47" in-game. IMFDB has a tendency for example to point out differences between any short AR-15 clones and "true" Colt M4A1 rifles, so why not show the same approach to Russian weaponry also. Gas tube and muzzle brake/compensator are the same that were used on the second variation of serial AK-74 rifles that came w. wooden stock and furniture. While the rifle IS obviously an AK-74 clone, it isn't an AK-103 (that are themselves a clone of an AK-74 rifle). --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] ([[User talk:RussianTrooper|talk]]) 17:20, 16 December 2012 (EST)
:: Update. The point is that an AK-103 is itself generally a clone of AK-74, like, for example how both IzhMash AK-101 and Tantal wz.1991 are themselves the clones of AK-74. But you wouldn't name the Tantal rifle as an AK-101 just because both are 5,56mm clones of AK-74, would you? So to put it bluntly - an AK-103 is a 7.62mm clone of AK-74 made by IzhMash OJSC and outfitted with plastic foldable stock and black plastic furniture. The game's rifle is also a clone of an AK-74 rifle, possibly chambered for 7.62x39mm rounds but outfitted with wooden fixed stock and wooden furniture, made by unknown manufacturer (that could be Chinese NorinCo or local factory, for example). So I suggest renaming it to either AK-47 as it is called in-game or to AK-74 variant, that it is. --[[User:RussianTrooper|RussianTrooper]] ([[User talk:RussianTrooper|talk]]) 09:01, 17 December 2012 (EST)
:::Like I said, the best way to describe this rifle is it's an AK-103 with the furnishings changed. The plastic furnishings might be distinctive of a ''factory'' AK-103, but they can be changed out relatively painlessly with aftermarket parts kits, so the configuration shown would not be too difficult to create with a -103 reciever and barrel. Saying it ''might'' be the result of reboring a -74 is kind of daft since that results in a weapon which is visually, um...An AK-103 with the furnishings changed. And visually is what's important in a game. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 09:32, 17 December 2012 (EST)
::::Exactly, and besides, there are no well-known 7.62x39mm AK-74 copies that I can think of. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 10:13, 17 December 2012 (EST)

Talk:AN-94

2012-12-16T06:34:37Z

Jeddostotle7: /* AN-94 = not getting adopted? */ new section

==The AN-94's unique muzzle configuration: does it work?==

A closer examination of the muzzle in the photos of this special-issue firearm will reveal that it has a very unusual muzzle attachment like a sideways figure 8. From the little I been able to read about it, this strange muzzle shape is supposed to reduce the sound signature of the AN-94's firing by shifting part of the muzzle blast's sound waves into ultrasound (much like a dog whistle does).

Note: There is a difference in this case between "reducing sound signature" and "making it safe to use without hearing protection." Just because part of the muzzle blast is shifted to ultrasound which is not detectable by most adult human ears, doesn't mean that it's much closer to hearing safe, since ultrasound can still damage one's hearing if at a high enough intensity.

Has anyone actually gotten their hands on an AN-94 compared its muzzle blast volume to that of an AK-74M? Or would the Russian Special Forces be better off with traditional suppressors on threaded barrels for the AN-94 in case they want something with more range than a 9x39mm firearm can offer but with similarly low sound signature? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 10:57, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

: As far as I know the AN-94 have only two elite teams (brigades) - Tank and infantry. But this is just talk, nothing more. I have never seen in our (Russian) television broadcasts, or live the soldiers with these weapons. Including special forces soldiers. Special forces, like the rest of the army are equipped with different types of AK, or for special purposes, the weapon caliber 9 x 39. In the hands of our special forces is easier to see the «Accuracy International Arctic Warfare» than the AN-94.

:Note: I am absolutely sure that all devices on the trunk of the AN-94 are needed to improve the accuracy of fire, but not for noise reduction.--[[User:Flexo|Flexo]] 09:22, 25 February 2012 (CST)

I have a hard time believing that the strange "sideways 8" bulge along the AN-94's muzzle actually improves accuracy. If it were really that simple, wouldn't it be invented earlier and be used en masse by other assault rifle manufacturers? The "bandwagon effect" (where lots of people try to emulate someone's success by adopting similar techniques or products) is seen in all its unoriginal glory just by looking at how many handgun manufacturers have come out with glock-type pistols (safe-action triggers plus Glock-style striker firing). But it's also strange that no units you've seen have actually been publicly using it. Maybe they don't feel it offers enough of an improvement over the AK-74M? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 06:13, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

::That's what I found in Russian Wikipedia: “At the end of the barrel is a muzzle compensator, designed as lying horizontally "Eight". This form facilitates self-cleaning in the trunk of fire” (hope that I made the correct translation).
::I think that the AN-94 just much more expensive than an AK-74. And this is the reason for its small quantity. In addition, 75% of Russian soldiers are military service for only 1 year (during the Soviet period of service for 2 years). In this situation, there is no point in changing the AK-74 to AN-94 (at least in large quantities). At the same time, professionals have any weapon that they need - from the Glock to the AWP.--[[User:Flexo|Flexo]] 09:22, 25 February 2012 (CST)

== AN-94 = not getting adopted? ==

Apparently, the special forces soldiers who have used the AN-94 hate it. I don't see it getting adopted, for this reason and the reason stated above. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 01:34, 16 December 2012 (EST)

Arma 3

2012-12-16T05:30:45Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Kel-Tec RFB Carbine */

{{upcoming}}
{{workinprogress}}

{{Infobox Video Game|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = ArmA III
|picture = Arma3-coverart.jpg
|series = ''[[ArmA]]''
|date = TBA 2013
|developer = Bohemia Interactive Studio
|platforms = PC
|publisher = Bohemia Interactive Studio
|genre = Military-Simulation
}}

'''''ArmA III''''' is an upcoming military-simulation video game developed and published by Bohemia Interactive Studio (BIS) exclusively for the PC. It is the third installment of the ''[[ArmA]]'' series, officially announced on May 19, 2011, and is built around the new ''Real Virtuality 4'' engine owned by BIS. The game is estimated to be released between Q4 2012 or early 2013.

The storyline is set in mid-2030s during an international conflict between the NATO and the Iranian Armed Forces in the Aegean Sea. The main protagonist is Captain Scott Miller, a former United Kingdom Special Forces (UKSF) operator who becomes stranded on a fictional Mediterranean island called "Limnos" (derived from the Greek island Lemnos), and must fight his way out by building an effective resistance force in the process and cooperate with the local population.

Traditionally with the ArmA series, the player will also be able to play with three more characters: Lieutenant Jeff Larkin, an helicopter pilot; Sergeant Rick Hutchinson, a (possibly) tank commander; and Corporal Ben Kerry, a light infantry soldier - all are serving in different units of the United States Army 7th Infantry Division (7th US Army Europe).

'''The following weapons are currently seen in early release footage of the upcoming video game ''ArmA III'':'''
__TOC__ 

= Handguns =
== Glock 17 (3rd Generation) ==
The tan-framed [[Glock 17]] from ''[[ArmA II]]'' returns as the "PO7 9mm", and seen in early footage with and without a suppressor; used by NATO soldiers.

[[Image:Glock_12892-1-.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Glock 17 OD Green - 9x19mm]]

[[Image:Arma3_g17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In-game Glock 17.]]

[[Image:Arma3_g17_zoom.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In-game Glock 17, looking down the sights.]]

= Submachine Guns =
== CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1 ==
The [[Skorpion#CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1|CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1]] is used by NATO combat divers.

[[Image:CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1 - 9x19mm]]

[[Image:ArmA3 Scorpion.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A NATO combat diver with a suppressed SCORPION EVO 3 A1 on his back.]]

== TDI Vector ==
The [[TDI Vector]] was spotted in a gameplay screenshot during Gamescom 2012.

[[Image:KrissSuperV.jpg|thumb|none|400px|TDI Vector SMG - .45 ACP]]

[[Image:Arma3-TDI.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An American soldier holding a TDI Vector fitted with red dot sight and a suppressor.]]

= Shotguns =
== Benelli M4 Super 90 ==
The [[Benelli_M4#Benelli_M4|Benelli M4 Super 90]] appears as the "M4 SASS".

[[File:M4Super90.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Benelli M4 Super 90 with 6-shot tube - 12 Gauge]]

[[File:Arma3 -BenelliM4.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]

[[File:Arma3-BenelliM4irons.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Down the sights of the M4 SASS.]]

== Kel-Tec KSG ==
The [[Kel-Tec KSG]] is a confirmed weapon to be featured in the game, and can be fitted with various accessories.

[[Image:Kel-Tec_KSG_Shotgun_Oleg_Volk_1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Kel-Tec KSG with Magpul RVG foregrip - 12 Gauge.]]

[[Image:Arma3_ksg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A NATO soldier aiming a Kel-Tec KSG, fitted with front and rear BUISs, C-More red dot sight, and a RIS foregrip.]]

= Assault Rifles =
== FN F2000 Tactical ==
A fictional variant of the [[FN F2000#FN F2000 Tactical|FN F2000 Tactical]] is used by NATO soldiers and appears as the "Mk 20". It features a tan body scheme and Monolith Arms rail system, and can be customized with a variety of attachments. A unique grenade launcher available only for the weapon and called the "Mk 20GL", is presumably based on the [[FN GL-1]].

[[File:FS2000 monolith arms handguard.jpg|thumb|none|500px|FN FS2000 with a C-more red dot sight and Monolith Arms rail system - 5.56x45mm NATO.]]

[[Image:Scr08.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An American soldier running with a F2000 Tactical, fitted with red dot sight and vertical foregrip.]]

[[File:Arma3-e3-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An American soldier fires a F2000 Tactical, fitted with red dot sight, laser sight, and the presumably FN GL-1. Note that the barrel is shorter than the one seen above.]]

== IMI Tavor TAR-21 ==
The [[Tavor TAR-21]] appears to be the standard issue rifle of the Iranian soldiers; presumably obtaining it from the Israelis after conquering Israel. It can be customized with a variety of attachments as can be seen below.

[[Image:Tavor-tar.jpg|thumb|none|450px|IMI Tavor TAR-21 with Kimber Mepro 21 red dot sight - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

[[File:Arma3-tavor-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A promotional picture showing the various attachments available for the TAR-21 (as well as for other weapons featured in the game), among the attachments are two types of ELCAN scopes, C-More red dot sight, AN/PEQ-15 ATPIAL-based IR designator, and a [[Noveske Rifleworks rifle series|Noveske Rifleworks]] flash suppressor.]]

[[File:Arma3-tavor-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Iranian soldiers aiming their TAR-21s. Note: C-More red dot sights are clearly visible.]]

[[File:Arma_3_steam_aug16_2_4.jpg|thumb|none|650px|Iranian soldiers with TAR-21s.]]

== Kel-Tec RFB Carbine ==
The [[Kel-Tec RFB Carbine]], appears as the "SDAR 6.5mm", is used by NATO combat divers in-game and appears to be modified into a fictional underwater weapon, but remains visually identical.

[[Image:RFB-18.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Kel-Tec RFB Carbine - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

[[Image:Armarfb.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

[[Image:Armarfb2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

== "MX 6.5mm" ==
U.S. Army soldiers use a fictional assault rifle that has design elements from the [[Remington ACR]] and [[Robinson Armament XCR]].

[[File:Arma3-e3-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

[[Image:Armxcr.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

= Sniper Rifles =
== Gepard GM6 Lynx ==
The GM6 Lynx anti-material rifle is shown during the Arma 3 GamesCom presentation.

[[File:GM6.JPG|thumb|none|600px]]

[[File:Arma3-GM6side.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Side-view of the GM6 Lynx being used by the player.]]

== Mark 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ==
The [[M14#Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle|Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR]] is seen used by NATO soldiers.

[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR - 7.62x51 NATO, with a Harris bipod and vertical RIS foregrip.]]

[[Image:Scr01.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The soldier in the far left and the soldier in the right are holding the Mk. 14.]]

[[File:Arma3-M14-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The far left soldier is armed with a scoped Mk. 14.]]

[[File:Arma3_mk14.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A first-person view of the Mk. 14 used by the player and fitted with RIS foregrip and night vision optical sight.]]

= Machine Guns =
== Knight's Armament Company Light Machine Gun ==
The [[Knight's Armament LMG|KAC LMG]], appears as the "Mk200 6.5mm", is one of the machine guns available in-game, features a Magpul UBR stock and can be fitted with various accessories. It is also firing 6.5mm caseless ammunition.

[[File:KAC LMG.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Knight's Armament Company LMG - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

[[File:Armamk200.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In-game KAC LMG with flip-up BUISs and RIS foregrip. Note the caseless ammunition belt.]]

[[File:Arma3_mk200.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In-game KAC LMG with flip-up BUISs, C-More red dot sight, and a RIS foregrip.]]

[[File:Arma3-e3-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Iranian soldier wields a KAC LMG with ELCAN scope and a RIS foregrip.]]

= Launchers =
== Heckler & Koch XM25 ==
The [[Heckler & Koch XM25|H&K XM25]] is a confirmed weapon to be featured in the game.

[[File:ATKXM25.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch XM25 - 25x40mm.]]

[[File:Arma3_xm25.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The NATO soldier circled in red is holding a H&K XM25.]]

== Metal Storm 3GL ==
[[File:3gl on m16.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]

[[File:Arma3gl.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

== Unknown Underbarrel Grenade Launcher ==
An unnamed grenade launcher is seen mounted on a [[Tavor TAR-21]] in-game.

[[Image:TAR-21_GL.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The unknown grenade launcher (circled in red) mounted on a TAR-21.]]

== Unknown Rocket Launcher ==
An unnamed rocket launcher can be seen held by NATO soldiers.

[[Image:Arm3roc.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

= Mounted Weapons =
== Browning M2 Heavy Barrel ==
The [[Browning M2 Heavy Barrel|Browning M2HB]] is seen mounted on the Unmanned Ground Vehicle (UGV) used by the NATO faction in-game, alongside a possibly unknown model of a grenade launcher. The M2HB is also mounted on the "Panther" Armored Personnel Carrier (derived from the Namer APC), as well as the armed variant of the "Hunter" light armored vehicle (derived from the Oshkosh M-ATV), both used by the Iranian Armed Forces faction.

[[File:BrowningM2_plain.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Browning M2HB - .50 BMG]]

[[File:Arma3_ugv_m2hb.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In-game Browning M2HB (circled in red) mounted on a NATO UGV.]]

[[File:Arma3_namer_apc_m2hb.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In-game Browning M2HB mounted on an Iranian "Panther" APC.]]

== Dillon Aero M134 Minigun ==
A possibly [[Dillon Aero M134 Minigun|DE M134 Minigun]] is seen mounted on the "AH-9" attack helicopter (derived from the AH-6 Little Bird) used by the NATO faction in-game.

[[File:Minigun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Dillon Aero M134 with flash suppressor - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

[[File:Arma3_ah-9_minigun.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In-game a possibly DE M134 Minigun (circled in red) mounted on a NATO "AH-9".]]

==Heckler & Koch GMG==
Strider ARCs that come mounted with turrets use the H&K GMG.
[[File:HKGMG.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[File:A3gmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

== General Dynamics GAU-19/A ==
The [[General Dynamics GAU-19/A|GD GAU-19/A]] is seen mounted on the "Mi-48 Kajman" attack helicopter (derived from the Mi-28 "Havoc") used by the Iranian Armed Forces faction in-game. It is unclear why the GAU-19/A is featured as the main armament of the Mi-48 instead of the [[Shipunov 2A42]], although this reason could be for ''ArmA III'''s futuristic background.

[[File:Gau_19-2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Dynamics GAU-19/A with muzzle brake and mount - .50 BMG]]

== General Dynamics GAU-22/A ==
The [[General Dynamics GAU-12/U#GAU-22/A|GD GAU-22/A]] is most likely the main armament of the F-35B Lightning II used by the NATO faction in-game.

[[File:F-35_GAU-22A.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Dynamics GAU-22/A - 25x137mm]]

[[File:Arma3_facebook_4_4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A pair of F-35Bs in flight. The GAU-22/A could be mounted on them.]]

== General Dynamics XM301 ==
The [[General Dynamics XM301|GD XM301]] is seen mounted on RAH-66 Comanche attack helicopter used by the NATO faction in-game.

[[File:XM301b.jpg|thumb|none|450px|General Dynamics XM301 - 20x102mm]]

== XM312 ==
The [[XM307 & XM312#XM312|XM312]], appears as the "M312" in-game, is seen mounted on a patrol boat used by the NATO faction.

[[File:XM312hmg.jpg|thumb|none|450px|XM312 - .50 BMG]]

= Other Weapons =
== Barrett M99 ==
What appears to be a [[Barrett M99]] is seen on a poster advertising the game and appears to be missing its bipod. It is unknown if the weapon is will be featured in the game.

[[Image:Barett m99-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Barret M99 - .50 BMG/.416 Barrett]]

[[File:Arma3-coverart.jpg|thumb|none|350px|A soldier holds a possible M99 on a promotional poster. Note the absence of vent holes and that the bolt is close to the trigger.]]

= See Also =
*''[[ArmA]]'' series
**''[[Operation Flashpoint]]'' (also known as ArmA: Cold War Assault)
**''[[ArmA: Armed Assault]]'' (also known as ArmA: Combat Operations)
**''[[ArmA II]]''

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]

Medal of Honor: Warfighter

2012-12-05T15:00:47Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Heckler & Koch MP7A1 */

{{incomplete}}
{{Infobox Video Game|{{PAGENAME}}
|name = Medal of Honor: Warfighter
|picture = Moh_warfighter_cover.jpg
|caption = General Boxart
|series = [[Medal of Honor]]
|date = 2012
|developer = Danger Close
|platforms = PC Xbox 360 PS3 Wii U
|publisher = Electronic Arts
|genre = First-Person Shooter
}}

'''''Medal of Honor: Warfighter''''' (previously known as '''''Medal of Honor 2''''') is a first-person shooter video game developed by Danger Close (EA LA) and published by Electronic Arts for the PC, Xbox 360, PS3, and Wii U platforms. It is the fourteenth installment of the ''[[Medal of Honor]]'' series, officially announced on February 23, 2012, and a direct sequel to ''[[Medal of Honor (2010)]]''. The game is built on ''[[Battlefield 3]]'''s Frostbite 2 engine and was released on October 23, 2012 in North America.

'''The following weapons are featured in the video game ''Medal of Honor: Warfighter'':'''
__TOC__ 

=Overview=
==General==
Both the single-player and multiplayer aspects of the game correctly track +1 round in the chamber on all weapons and feature correct partially-full and empty reloads; also, when there are unfired rounds remaining, the player character always is seen retaining the magazine while inserting a new one. When reloading from a completely empty magazine, it is dropped to the ground. The +1 chambered round correctly does not apply to the AA-12 or belt-fed machine guns, as these are open-bolt weapons.

In ''[[Medal of Honor (2010)]]'' when using handguns, the player character would always pull back on the slide to release it after an empty reload: in ''Warfighter'' this practice is largely dropped in favor of the slide release lever on most handguns, but is still retained on the [[Glock]] handguns.

Both the single-player and multiplayer feature fire-selectors that are both functional and animated: the player character is seen moving the fire-selector to the correct position, as is rarely seen in games. Variable-magnification scopes are also featured, as well as scopes with a "piggyback" reflex sight on top, and Surefire RTS 45-degree canted iron sights used in conjunction with scopes. Reflex sights with swing-in/swing-out 3x magnifiers are included as well, but currently these can only be toggled in single-player.

The game notably features advertising deals with various weapon or accessory manufacturers, most obviously Trijicon, Larue Tactical, Magpul, Surefire, Vickers Tactical, and U.S. Optics.

==Single-Player==
The weapon allocation system in single-player gives the player two assigned weapons: a primary weapon such as a [[HK416]] or [[SCAR-H]], and a secondary weapon such as a [[SIG-Sauer P226]], [[MP7|H&K MP7A1]], or [[AA-12|AA-12 CQC]]. Neither of these weapons can be traded away. The primary weapon has a moderately large but finite ammo supply, ammunition for it can be requested from certain NPC teammates. The secondary weapon is always equipped with an infinite supply of reserve ammunition.

Enemy weapons such as the [[AK-103|"AKM"]], [[AKMSU]], [[PKP Pecheneg|PKP]], and [[Remington 870]] can be picked up as tertiary weapons. When picked up they will have however many rounds were left in the magazine, and usually one reload's worth of reserve ammo. More ammunition for these can be acquired by walking over similar weapons, or at ammunition caches. Unlike the players assigned weapons, only about three reloads' worth for the AKs or 870, or one 100-round belt for the PKP, can be carried in reserve. These weapons cannot be kept in the player's inventory: equipping one of the assigned weapons or a laser designator will drop the tertiary weapon. Using a grenade or tomahawk, however, will not.

==Multiplayer==
The weapon allocation system in multiplayer uses a standard two-slot system. The player carries a primary weapon such as an rifle, carbine, PDW, machine gun, or the AA-12. A backup weapon is carried, such as a [[Heckler & Koch HK45|HK45C]], [[Glock 18C]], or a [[Remington 870|870 Breaching Shotgun]]. There are six character classes with their own specific traits, and each one can choose from its own assortment of highly customizable primary weapons. Backup weapons are assigned to the player based on character class, and cannot be chosen or customized.

The game features a very deep weapon customization, which can be compared to Ubisoft's ''[[Ghost Recon: Future Soldier]]''. Customizable parts are the optics, barrel assembly, muzzle, stock (referred to as "receiver group"), magazine, and paint job.

Like in single-player, the player's primary weapon has a moderate amount of reserve ammo, with exception of Support Gunners, who do not run out of reserve ammunition. More ammo can be requested from either the player's fireteam partner, or an allied Support Gunner. This does not cost anything from the player giving the supplies. Usable ammunition caches can also be occasionally found. Also as in single-player, backup weapons have unlimited reloads. Dropped weapons cannot be picked up in any circumstance.

= Handguns =
==Glock 17==
Bosic opens fire with a [[Glock 17]] at TF Mako and Greko's men during the mission ''Old Friends''. Later Sad al-Din is seen with a Glock 17 in the next mission; ''Bump in the Night''.
[[Image:Glock173rdGen.jpg|thumb|none|400px|3rd Generation Glock 17 - 9x19mm. Note the finger grooves, thumb reliefs, and accessory rail on the frame, which differentiate it from the older model.]]
[[File:MOHW Bosic.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Bosic tries to end the DEVGRU / GROM joint operation, but one of his goons pulls him away before Stump and the others could hit him. Note his the pistol has no selector switch on the frame.]]
[[File:MOHW Sal al-Din.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Sal al-Din with his Glock 17 drawn]]

==Glock 18==
Mother can be seen with a [[Glock 18]] pistol for a brief second during the mission ''Hello and Dubai''.
[[File:Glock18c 01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Glock 18C (3rd Generation) - 9x19mm]]
[[File:MOHW Mother's Glock.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Mother pulls out a Glock 18 after shaking the pursuers during the mission ''Hello and Dubai''. His Glock appears to be fitted with a standard-size magazine.]]

== Glock 18C ==
The [[Glock 18C]] is the standard sidearm of the Sniper class in MP. Comes with a 33-round magazine by default, and due to a bug, the +1 round is not tracked for this weapon. Listed simply as "G18" in the game. Also, this is the only secondary weapon that has a usable selector switch.
[[File:Glock18c 01-1-.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Glock 18C (3rd Generation) - 9x19mm]]
[[File:Warfighter_g18.jpg|thumb|none|400px|In-game render of the Glock 18C.]]
[[File:MOHG18.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Glock 18C is used by a German KSK operator, note the selector switch set on full auto.]]
[[Image:MOHW G18C Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading a Glock 18C. Note the Mechanix Wear gloves.]]

== Glock 23 ==
A 4th generation [[Glock#Glock_23|Glock 23]] pistol is usable in-game. In Multiplayer, it is the sidearm of the Spec Ops class. It can be identified as a 4th Gen model by the texture on the grip and the fact that "Gen 4" can be seen written on the slide.
[[Image:G23Gen4.JPG|thumb|none|401px|Glock 23 (4th Generation) - .40 S&W]]
[[Image:MOHW G23 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading a Glock 23 in multiplayer.]]
[[Image:MOHW Argyrus G23 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|OGA Asset "Argyrus" reloads his Glock 23 when it runs dry. Both "Gen4" and ".40" are clearly visible on the slide.]]
[[Image:MOHW Preacher G23 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Preacher pulls the slide of his G23 to chamber a round.]]
[[Image:MOHWG19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Glock 23 is seen in the players hands as he wishes upon a falling plane. Note that the ammo capacity has been corrected since this screenshot was taken. Also note the modern 'thumbs forward' grip technique, previously almost non-existent in video games.]]

== Heckler & Koch HK45C ==
The [[Heckler_%26_Koch_HK45#Heckler_.26_Koch_HK45C|HK45C]] is the secondary weapon of the Heavy Gunner class in MP, and is used by Stump in single player. Has a 8-round capacity in singleplayer, and a 10-round capacity in multiplayer. It is fitted with the extended barrel of the HK45CT model, but is actually based on a standard model as noted by the regular day sights.
[[File:HK45C threaded.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK45C with Threaded Barrel and 10 round magazine - .45 ACP]]
[[File:MOHW Stump HK45CT Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump reloads his HK45C. Note the HK logo and the extended, threaded barrel. Normally a threaded barrel would indicate an HK45CT, but this model does not have night sights which come as standard on the HK45CT.]]
[[File:MOHW Stump HK45CT EmptyReload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump reloads his HK45C when it runs empty.]]

== SIG-Sauer P226R ==
The [[SIG-Sauer_P220_pistol_series#SIG-Sauer_P226|SIG-Sauer P226R]] is the sidearm of the Assaulter class (all nations) in MP. The P226R now has a 15+1 round capacity instead of the 18+1 seen in ''MOH2010'', and is called "SIG SAUER P226". In the single-player campaign, a suppressed P226R is used by SEAL Team Six member Preacher.
[[Image:P226R.jpg|thumb|none|400px|SIG-Sauer P226R - 9x19mm, updated P226 with accessory rails, now the standard production version for the P226 (IMFDB still refers to this model as the "P226R" to distinguish between newer and older models).]]
[[File:Warfighter_p226.jpg|thumb|none|400px|In-Game Render of SIG P226]]
[[File:MOHWSIG226.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The SIG-Sauer P226R in mid-reload.]]
[[File:MOWH Preacher P226.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Preacher shoots the guard with his own P226. During this animation the slide and the hammer of the pistol does not move, there are no casing ejecting, and the suppressor is not reducing the muzzle flash either. When the animation is over, the hammer automatically becomes cocked and the magazine capacity resets to 15+1.]]
[[Image:MOHW Preacher P226 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Preacher reloads his suppressed P226.]]

==Vickers Tactical Custom 1911==
One of the usable weapons in the game is a [[M1911A1|1911 pistol]] built exclusively for the game by Vickers Tactical. It appears only in multiplayer where it is listed as "Vickers 1911". This is the sidearm of the Demolition class. Has a 7+1 capacity. In single player, one Vickers 1911 can be seen on Dusty's desk next to his computer.
[[File:MOH Warfighter Vickers Tactical 1911.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Custom-built Vickers Tactical 1911 for ''Medal of Honor: Warfighter'' - .45 Auto]]
[[File:MOHW Dusty's 1911.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Dusty's Vickers 1911 resting on his desk.]]
[[File:MOHW Dusty's 1911 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Another shot of Dusty's Vickers 1911 pistol.]]
[[File:MOHW Vickers 1911 Sprint.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character sprints with the 1911, exercising perfect trigger discipline.]]
[[File:MOHW Vickers 1911 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading animation of the Vickers 1911, again, finger nowhere close to the trigger.]]
[[File:MOHW1911.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The custom-built Vickers Tactical 1911 being used by the player.]]

==Yarygin PYa==
The [[Yarygin PYa|Yarygin PYa / MP-443]] is seen in a cutscene in the single-player level ''Changing Tides'', where Sal al-Din takes it from one of his own men's holsters and proceeds to shoot another soldier in the chest with it. This is the only time it is seen throughout the game, and it is not usable.
[[Image:MP433Grach.jpg|none|thumb|400px|MP-443 "Grach" - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:MOHW MP443 1.jpg|none|thumb|600px|Sal al-Din puts the MP-443 to al-Khalifa's face...]]
[[Image:MOHW MP443 2.jpg|none|thumb|600px|... and then shoots a guard with it. This gun was originally an M45 MEUSOC in the trailer (see "Other" section of this article).]]

= Submachine Guns =
== Heckler & Koch MP7A1 ==
The [[Heckler & Koch MP7|H&K MP7A1]] with a 40-round magazine is a Spec Ops weapon used by the US Navy SEAL, OGA, and ROKN UDT/SEAL factions. Like in many video games, it is listed simply as "MP7", even though it is clearly the A1 variant. An MP7A1 with flash suppressor and iron sights is the secondary weapon of Preacher in the missions ''Changing Tides'' and ''Rip Current''.
[[Image:H%26K_MP71A1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MP7A1 with factory magazine and iron sights - 4.6x30mm]]
[[Image:MOHwMP7.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The player character holds an MP7A1 fitted with iron sights.]]
[[File:MOHW_MP71.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The MP7A1 in Paint Job selection menu.]]
[[File:MOHW_MP72.jpg|600px|thumb|none|A Canadian JTF-2 operator wields his MP7A1 personal defense weapon.]]
[[File:MOHW MP7 Reload.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Reloading an MP7A1 equipped with a sound suppressor and RMR red dot sight. When reloading from empty, after inserting the fresh mag the player character will press the bolt catch instead of pulling the charging handle. The only other game where this kind of chambering action can be seen is Battlefield 3.]]

= Shotguns =

== AA-12 ==
The [[AA-12]] is unlockable with the Navy SEAL, SAS-R, and SOG Demolitions class. Can be used with a 8-round box mag or 12-round drum mag. It is correctly portrayed as an open bolt weapon and even shows the charging handle jiggling while being fired. Like the AA-12 in ''[[MW3]]'', it is possible to attach a spare shell holder on the stock (even though it is a magazine-fed weapon).
[[Image:AA12FullAutoShotGun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MPS Auto Assault-12 - 12 Gauge]]
[[Image:MOHW AA12 Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing an AA-12 shotgun fitted with an M952V weapon light, rear shell holder, and non-existent 12-round drum magazine.]]
[[Image:MOHWAA12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A member of the ROKN UDT holds the AA-12.]]
[[Image:MOHWAA-12.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A US SF operator holds the AA-12 fitted with a Trijicon RX01.]]
[[Image:MOHW Stump AA12 Charging.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump pulls the charging handle of the AA-12 CQB while showing excellent trigger discipline. The holographic sight is not available in MP for this weapon.]]

== Remington 870 MCS ==
The [[Remington_Model_870#Remington_870|Remington 870 MCS]] fitted with a Trijicon RMR reflex sight is the secondary weapon of the Point Man class. Has a correct 3+1 capacity. In single player it is used for door breaching, but is also seen in hands of terrorists quite often. When reloading from empty, the player character will keep the action open, feed the first round through the ejection port, close the action, and then feed the remaining rounds through the loading gate. The Remington 870 and Benelli M4 had a similar reload animation in the previous game.
[[Image:Remington 870 MCS MK.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Remington 870 MCS in Breaching Configuration - 12 Gauge]]
[[File:MOHW R870 Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Swedish SOG operator holds a Remington 870 MCS "Breacher" shotgun.]]
[[Image:MOHW Breaching 2.jpg|thumb|none|601px|A Swedish SOG operator reloads his 870 MCS.]]
[[Image:MOHW Stump R870 BreechLoad.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump breech-loads a Remington 870 MCS shotgun during the mission ''Old Friends''.]]
[[Image:MOHW Breaching 1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Voodoo performs a door breaching with a 870 MCS shotgun.]]

= Assault Rifles =
== AK-103 / AK-104 ==
The [[AK-103]] is used by many terrorist in the single player campaign. In MP it is usable by OGA, GROM, and Gruppa Alfa. The AK-103 can be fitted with the barrel of the [[AK-104]]. A POSP 4x scope is available exclusively for this weapon.

The "[[AKM]]" of the single player campaign is actually an AK-103 with a wooden handguard and stock. This is noted by the 90 degree gas block, AK-74-style flash hider, lack of strengthened receiver cover, and side folding (wooden) stock.
[[image:AK103.jpg|thumb|none|500px|AK-103 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:AK104.jpg|thumb|none|440px|AK-104 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:MoHW_AK-103.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Russian Spetznaz Alfa Group operator with an AK-103 fitted with a red dot sight.]]
[[File:MOHW Fake AKM Ground.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A fake AKM on the ground.]]
[[File:MOHW Stump Fake AKM Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Empty-reloading the "AKM": Stump uses a fresh magazine to press the mag release lever. The used up magazine flies away with bullets in it, even though this type of "speed" reload is done only when a gun is completely empty. Then he will insert the new magazine and tilt the gun to pull the charging handle (see below):]]
[[File:MOHW Preacher AK-103 Charge.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Preacher pulls the charging handle of his AK-103.]]
[[File:MOHW_AK103P1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AK-103 in the Paint Job screen. Note the heavily customized front handguard.]]
[[File:Mohw_ak103.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AK-104 on the Paint Job screen. Note the Bellarussian POSP 4x24 scope.]]
[[File:MOHW AK104 Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing an AK-104 fitted with a CTR stock, wooden handguard, and M145 MGO.]]
[[File:MOHW_AK103P2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AK-103 with Kobra red dot sight.]]
[[File:MOHW_AK103P3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Loading a magazine of "High Power Ammunition" to the AK-103.]]

== AKMSU ==
The [[AKMSU]] is usable by Gruppa Alfa. It first appears during ''Through the Eyes of Evil'', the second mission (and game tutorial) of the single player campaign equipped with a SpecterDR scope as the primary weapon of a CIA asset codenamed "Argyrus", while camo-painted AKMSUs with TA01NSN-RMR ACOG scopes and 40-round waffle-pattern magazines, are used by Preacher and Mother in the mission ''Finding Faraz''. It is listed as "[[AKS-74U]] Suchka", just like in ''MOH2010''.
[[File:AK-Krinkov.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKMSU - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:Mohw_akms_suchka.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An AKMSU with Kobra red dot sight on the Paint Job screen.]]
[[File:MOHW Argyrus AKMSU Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|OGA Asset codenamed "Argyrus" reloads his AKMSU fitted with a SpecterDR dual-purpose scope during the tutorial mission of the game.]]
[[File:MOHW Preacher AKMSU.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Preacher pursues Faraz while using an AKMSU rifle with a dual-purpose sight.]]
[[File:MOHW Preacher AKMSU Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Preacher empty-reloads his AKMSU using the same speed reload technique that is also used for the AK-103, AK-104, or "AKM".]]
[[File:MOHW Preacher AKMSU Charge.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Preacher pulls the charging handle of an "enemy" AKMSU. Even now he has two AKMSU rifles, they will not use ammo from the same ammo pool.]]

==AKU-94==
The [[AKU-94]] is usable by GROM, and Gruppa Alfa. It is listed as "AK-103 Bullpup". Hence this it also has a 103-style flash hider.
[[Image:Pix545892796.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AKU-94 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[File:MOHW WTF.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The AKU-94 seen on the left in the hands of Spetsnaz Gruppa Alfa operator]]
[[File:MOHW_AK1033.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The AKU-94 in Paint Job selection screen]]
[[File:Mohw_aku94.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Ditto]]
[[File:MOHW_AK1032.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The AKU-94 in-game]]
[[File:MOHW_AK1031.jpg|600px|thumb|none|Reloading the AKU-94]]

== Bofors Ak 5C ==
The [[FN FNC#Bofors Ak 5|Ak 5C]] (modified [[FN FNC]] rifle, the standard assault rifle of the Swedish military) is used by the Swedish SOG Point Man. The BattleLog description of the Ak 5C also mentions that it is a modified FNC rifle.
[[File:Ak 5C.jpg |thumb|none|400px|Ak 5C - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:WarfighterAk5c.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|A render of the Ak 5C from the official ''Medal of Honor: Warfighter'' website.]]
[[File:MOHW Ak5C Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|Customizing the Bofors Ak 5C rifle.]]
[[File:MOHW Ak5C Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|The player character holding an Ak 5C with Trijicon SRS02 red dot sight and Winter Cell camouflage.]]
[[File:MOHW Ak5C Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|Reloading animation of the Ak 5C, here shown equipped with an Aimpoint CompCS sight.]]
[[File:MOHW Ak5C HH Ammo.jpg|thumb|none|600px|none|The player character prepares to load a magazine containing Heavy Hitter ammunition into his Ak 5C. Note the Viking head on the magazine.]]

== Daniel Defense DDM4 V1 ==
The Daniel Defense DDM4 V1 appears as the "DD M4V1" in the game. It is used by the OGA, SAS, and ROKN UDT/SEAL factions (Assaulter class). Can mount a H&K M320 grenade launcher.
[[File:DDM4v1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daniel Defense DDM4 V1 with DDM4 Rail 12.0 FSP, A1.5 rear sight, Magpul MOE stock, and KAC vertical foregrip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Killfeed DDM4.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Customizing a DDM4 V1 rifle.]]
[[File:MOHW_DD_M4V1.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The DD M4V1 in-game]]

== Daniel Defense DDM4 MK18==
The Daniel Defense DDM4 MK18 is used by the JTF2, SAS, SOG, and SFOD-D teams (Spec Ops). It is listed as "DD Mk18" on the killfeed and as "Daniel Defense Mk18" during class selection. In the single-player campaign, it is SEAL Team Six member Voodoo's primary weapon in the missions ''Old Friends'' and ''Shut it Down'', and is used by Preacher in ''Unexpected Consequences'' and ''Shut it Down''.
[[File:DDM4 MK18.jpg|thumb|none|401px|Daniel Defense DDM4 MK18 with MOE stock - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:MOHW Mk18 Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing a DDM4 MK18 carbine.]]
[[File:MOHW Mk18.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player's character reloads his DDM4 MK18 customized with a front grip and Magpul BAD lever.]]
[[File:MOHW Preacher Mk18 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Preacher reloads his DDM4 MK18 during the first mission ''Unexpected Consequences''.]]
[[File:MOHW Mk18 Bolt Catch.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ignoring the BAD (Battery Assist Device) lever, the player character slaps the bolt catch release button to chamber a round.]]

== FN SCAR PDW==
The [[FN SCAR#FN SCAR PDW|SCAR PDW]] appears as "Mk 16 PDW" in the game and is used by three different spec ops units, namely the OGA, FSK and SFOD-D. It can use either a standard 30-round STANAG magazine or the low-profile 20-round magazine: using the smaller one will improve the weapon's handling/mobility. Strangely, the game seems to feature the prototype version of the SCAR PDW which never went into production. The final version of the gun has a more lightweight stock and longer handguard covering the whole gas block.
[[Image:FN SCAR PDW (old).jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN SCAR PDW with 20-round magazine (old version) - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:MOHW_PDW1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Selecting the Paint Job for the SCAR PDW.]]
[[File:MOHW_PDW2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character with a SCAR PDW equipped with a Trijicon RMR red dot sight.]]
[[File:MOHW Stump Mk16 PDW Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump reloads his scoped SCAR PDW during the mission in Sarajevo.]]
[[File:MOHW Stump Mk16 PDW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|And Stump with a SCAR PDW in a cutscene later. This is supposed to be the same SCAR PDW as seen above, even though now it has a woodland camo and lacks the AN/PEQ-5 laser sight.]]

== FN SCAR-H ==
The [[MK 17|FN SCAR-H]] with an ELCAN SpecterDR scope appears during the mission ''Connecting the Dots'', where it is the standard weapon of three TF Mako members; Stump, Dingo, and Voodoo.
[[Image:FN SCAR-H STD.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Third Generation FN SCAR-H STD - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:MOHW Stump Mk17 Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump holds a SCAR-H battle rifle.]]
[[File:MOHW Stump Mk17 BoltCatch.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump presses the bolt-catch release button of the SCAR-H to finish the reload. The markings on the gun say that it was manufactured by "HM Combat Systems". Also note the altered FN logo.]]
[[File:MOHW Voodoo Mk17 Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Voodoo takes aim with his SCAR-H during the helicopter ride in Yemen.]]
[[File:MOHW Mk17.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Breach and clear with Dingo and his SCAR-H rifle fitted with an ELCAN SpecterDR scope with killflash attached. Note the selector on auto.]]

== Heckler & Koch G3A3 / G3A4 / Ak 4 / AG-3==
The [[G3]] appears in four different versions: G3A3 with wooden stock, G3A4 with railed handguard, Ak 4 used by Swedish SOG, and the AG-3 used by Norwegian FSK/HJK.
[[Image:CETME G3.JPG|thumb|none|400px|Early Heckler & Koch G3 rifle with wooden handguard and buttstock - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MOHW G3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading a G3A3. This version is used by Gruppa Alfa.]]

==Heckler & Koch G3KA4==
The [[Heckler & Koch G3KA4]] is an Assaulter Class Weapon available in the Multiplayer. It is unlocked along with the German KSK Assaulter.
[[Image:G3KA4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G3KA4 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

== Heckler & Koch G36C ==
The [[Heckler & Koch G36C]] is a Spec Ops weapon usable by the SAS-R, FSK/HJK, and KSK teams. It appears as "HK G36" in the game, but the correct "G36C" designation is also present on BattleLog.
[[File:Hkg36c.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch G36C - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:MOHW G36C Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing the paint job of a G36C.]]
[[File:MOHW G36C Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holds a G36C.]]

== Heckler & Koch HK416 ==
The [[Heckler & Koch HK416|H&K HK416]] is one of the main weapons Tier 1 operators use, and, along with the DDM4V1, replaces the [[M4A1]] from ''[[Medal of Honor (2010)]]''. In early release footage, the HK416 is seen fitted with Trijicon TA01NSN 4x32 ACOG scopes, KAC vertical foregrips, and most interestingly, SureFire 45-degree Rapid Transition backup iron sights.

During E3 2012 demonstration, the HK416s were seen fitted with new accessories, including rear flip-up BUISs, Aimpoint Micro T-1 red dot sights with 3X magnifiers, EOTech 556 Holographic sights, Elcan M145 Machine Gun Optics, AN/PEQ-15 IR designators, and [[Heckler & Koch M320|H&K M320 grenade launchers]].
[[Image:Hk416-2.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Heckler & Koch HK416 with 14.5 inch barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:MoHWarfighter416.jpg|thumb|none|600px|HK416 in an early release footage, fitted with TA01NSN ACOG, SureFire Rapid Transition Sights, and a KAC foregrip.]]
[[Image:MoHW_HK416-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player holding a HK416 in the E3 singleplayer demo, fitted with Troy Industries rear flip-up backup iron sights, an Aimpoint Micro T-1 with 3X magnifier, an Insight AN/PEQ-15, and a KAC foregrip.]]
[[Image:MoHW_HK416-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player reloading his HK416. Note the visible rounds in the magazine and the lack of feed lips on the magazine.]]
[[Image:MoHW_HK416-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Polish GROM operator with HK416 in the E3 multiplayer trailer, fitted with M145 MGO and M320. Note the half-open ejection port cover. In reality, a spring actuates the cover; thus, it must either be completely closed or open.]]

==Heckler & Koch HK416C==
The [[Heckler & Koch HK416C]] is usable by the JTF-2, KSK, GROM, and SAS factions (Demo class). It is possible to extend, collapse, partially collapse, or remove the stock. Interestingly, fully or partially extending the stock will give the same results.
[[Image:HK416C.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416C carbine with 9" barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

== LaRue Tactical OBR 5.56 ==
The very first official image of ''Warfighter'' was showing Preacher holding a [[LaRue Tactical OBR|LaRue Tactical OBR 5.56]] rifle. The weapon is fitted with a Magpul CTR stock with LaRue RISR and POD, LaRue Grip Adapter Panels, Magpul PMAG, Troy rear BUIS, and a Trijicon TA01NSN-RMR 4x32 ACOG scope. An OBR 5.56 with red dot sight and magnifier is used by Stump in ''Shore Leave''. It is the standard weapon for US Army SFOD-D, US Navy SEAL, German KSK and Canadian JTF-2 Pointman Class in the multiplayer. In MP, the gun is limited to semi-automatic fire, making it the only assault rifle without a working selector switch.
[[File:LaRue OBR 556.jpg|thumb|450px|none|LaRue Tactical OBR 5.56 with Magpul CTR stock, Magpul PMAG, and a 16" barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:MOHW OBR556 Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing an OBR 5.56 rifle. Note how the selector is set to where "Auto" would be if the gun in MP was select-fire.]]
[[Image:MOHW OBR556 Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Swedish SOG operator holds a LaRue Tactical OBR 5.56 fitted with a TA31-CH scope and Contour camera.]]
[[Image:MOHW OBR556 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading an OBR 5.56 equipped with a Trijicon SRS02 red dot sight. The magazine seen on the bottom of the picture is the one that is about to be inserted to the magwell, and not the one that is falling down.]]
[[Image:MOHW OBR556 Charge.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Pulling the charging handle (a type of chambering action usually done after inserting a magazine of HH ammo) of an OBR 5.56 fitted with a Trijicon 4X32ECOS + RMR scope.]]
[[Image:MOHW OBR556 HH Ammo.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character pulls out a magazine filled with Heavy Hitter ammunition.]]
[[Image:MOHW Stump OBR556 SightToggle.jpg|thumb|none|600px|TF Mako member Stump flips up the 3x magnifier to engage the Somali pirate conveniently camping in the lighthouse.]]
[[Image:MOHW 6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Promotional image of Tom "Preacher" with an OBR 5.56 rifle.]]
[[Image:MOHW OBR556.jpg|thumb|none|600px|OBR 5.56]]

== Mk. 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle ==
The [[M14 Rifle#Mk 14 Mod 0/1 Enhanced Battle Rifle|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR]] is usable by the SAS-R and JTF-2 Assaulters. Listed as "EBR". Can be customized with a longer barrel for increased accuracy.
[[Image:M14EBR.jpg|thumb|none|550px|Mk. 14 Mod 0 EBR - 7.62x51mm NATO]]

== Steyr AUG A3 ==
The [[Steyr AUG A3]] is used by the Australian SASR, Norwegian FSK/HJK and British SAS Pointman Class and called in-game by the Australian designation "F88". The AUG's unique Swavorski Scope is available in-game, and replaces the top rail when equipped.
[[Image:SteyrAUGA3.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Steyr AUG A3 with optics removed and 16-inch barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:MOHW AUG Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing the paint job of the AUG A3. It is worth noting that iron sights are not available for this weapon.]]
[[File:Warfighter Multiplayer E3 AUG.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The player character unnecessarily slaps the flashy, customized magazine against the body of the AUG before inserting it into the magwell. This magazine represents the Pointman class' special "Heavy Hitter" ammunition. Even if the AUG is used with a 42-round magazine, the Heavy Hitter magazine will always be a 30-rounder one.]]
[[File:MOHW AUG Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character reloads his AUG A3.]]

= Machine Guns =
==Bofors Ksp 90==
The Ksp 90 (licensed [[FN Minimi]] made by Bofors) is used by the Swedish SOG. It is shown with a 90-degree carrying handle, RIS handguard, and side-folding stock. The model lacks the STANAG well.
[[Image:M249 FN MINIMI DA-SC-85-11586 c1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN Minimi with 200-round ammo drum - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:MOHW Ksp90 Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holds a Ksp 90 with an Aimpoint CompCS red dot sight. Note the missing STANAG magazine well.]]
[[Image:MOHW Ksp90 Jam.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Ksp 90 fitted with a Trijicon TA11MGO-M249 ACOG scope overheats and jams. When a jamming occurs, the player character opens the top cover, flicks away the jammed bullet, resets the belt (shown on the picture), and closes the cover. This takes about 4-5 seconds.]]

==Daewoo K3 Paratrooper ==
The [[Daewoo K3|Daewoo K3 Paratrooper]] is used by the Korean ROKN UDT/SEAL Heavy Gunner Class. It appears as "K3 SAW" during weapons selection, but as "M249" on the killfeed and BattleLog. It is incorrectly shown with an M249-style front sight, Minimi-style carrying handle, and sliding stock. The model lacks the STANAG magazine well (just like the M249 and Ksp 90).
[[Image:DaewooK3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|A Daewoo K3 "Paratrooper" model, with a chopped barrel buttstock removed to resemble an M249 Paratrooper, and with a 200 round "soft pack" magazine. Guns in similar configurations have been seen in many action films. (This picture was edited in GIMP.)]]
[[Image:MOHW K3 Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing the paint job of a K3 Para fitted with a SpecterDR scope.]]
[[Image:MOHW K3 Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holds a K3 Paratrooper with an Aimpoint CompCS scope.]]

== FN M240B / M240L==
The [[M240B]] is mounted on a UGV during the second mission and is also usable by the FSK/HJK in multiplayer, where it features a slightly longer barrel and para stock. Another variant, the [[M240B|M240L]] is unlockable with the SAS, SFOD-D, and SEAL Heavy Gunner. The one used by SFOD-D is listed as "M240 Mk43 Mod1". In reality, the Mk 43 Mod 0/1 is an upgraded [[M60 machine gun]] and has nothing to do with the M240 series.
[[Image:M240-1.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M240B with newer style lower handguard (designed to attach RIS rails via hex nut) - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:PEO M240L MG.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M240L - U.S. Army's new lightweight variant - 7.62x51mm NATO. This version is fitted with M145 ELCAN scope.]]

== FN M249 SAW ==
The [[FN Minimi#M249-E1 / M249-E2 / M249 Paratrooper SAW|FN M249 SAW]] appears in two different versions in the game. Both models lack the STANAG magazine wells. It is the standard weapon of the Polish GROM, and Canadian JTF-2 Heavy Gunner Class.
[[Image:M249 Para ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M249 SAW Paratrooper - this one features components of the Product Improvement Package (PIP), including the new telescoping stock, heat shield, and RIS handguard. It is also fitted with an ACOG scope and a 100-round woodland camo cloth ammo bag - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:MoHWSaw.jpg‎|thumb|none|600px|A Tier 1 operator uses a FN M249E3 SAW with Eclan M145 MG optic. Note the anti-reflective filter installed on the Elcan. This is a pre-release image and the M249's model is from ''MOH2010''. That is why it has a STANAG magazine well.]]
[[File:MOHW_M249.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Selecting the scope for the M249 SAW.]]

==FN Mk 46 Mod 0/1==
The [[FN Minimi#Mk 46 Mod 1|FN Mk 46 Mod 1]] machine gun is unlockable with OGA. It is listed as "M249 Mk46 Mod1" in the game, but on the BattleLog website it is called simply "M249" (its icon is also incorrect for the Mk 46). It is possible to change it into an [[FN Minimi#Mk 46 Mod 0|Mk 46 Mod 0]], by adding a Mod 0-style heat-shield. An older, M249-style handguard is also selectable.
[[Image:MK46 MOD 1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FN Mk 46 Mod 1 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:MOHW Mk 46 Mod 1 Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing an Mk 46 Mod 1 fitted with a Paratrooper stock.]]
[[Image:MOHW Mk 46 Mod 0 Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing an Mk 46 Mod 0 fitted with a sliding stock and AN/PEQ-15 laser designator.]]
[[Image:MOHW Mk 46 Mod 1 Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holds an Mk 46 Mod 1 machine gun with a Trijicon TA11MGO-M249 + RMR dual-purpose scope.]]
[[Image:MOHW Mk 46 Mod 0 Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character holds an Mk 46 Mod 0 machine gun.]]
[[Image:MOHW Mk 46 Mod 1 Deploy.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The player character deploys the bipod of his Mk 46 Mod 1 LMG. Even though the deployed bipod grants unlimited ammo, the gun can still overheat after continuous fire.]]
[[Image:MOHW Mk 46 Mod 0 Aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|View through the iron sights of the Mk 46 Mod 0 as the player covers his buddy in a Hotspot match.]]

== Heckler & Koch MG4 / MG4KE ==
The [[Heckler & Koch MG4]] is usable by the Australian SAS-R, while the compact MG4KE is available for the German KSK Heavy Gunner class. A G36V-style combination carry handle and 3x sight is available exclusively for this weapon.
[[File:H&KMG4.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MG4 - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:MG4KE.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch MG4KE - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[Image:MOHW MG4 Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing the MG4, which is always fitted with an AN/PEQ-15 laser designator.]]
[[Image:MOHW MG4KE Customize.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Customizing the MG4KE fitted with a 3x scope and 100-round ammo bag.]]
[[Image:MOHW Stump MG4 Hold.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump holds a scoped MG4 during the helicopter ride in the mission ''Connecting the Dots''. It is questionable whether the SEALs would use the MG4 in real life.]]
[[Image:MOHW MG4 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading an MG4 machine gun.]]
[[Image:MOHW MG4KE Bipod Deploy.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Deploying the bipod of the MG4KE.]]
[[Image:MOHW MG4KE 3x Scope.jpg|thumb|none|600px|View through the 3x scope mounted on an MG4KE.]]

== PKP Pecheneg ==
The [[PKP Pecheneg]] is usable by the Russian Spetsnaz Alfa Group. It is also the only enemy man-portable machine gun to appear throughout the single-player campaign. It is possible to fit the gun with a wooden stock and PKM-style carrying handle. The sights are not zeroed properly when using a bipod, the player has to aim lower than the intended target with the ironsights and aim higher when using the optics.
[[File:Pecheneg.jpg|thumb|none|450px|PKP Pecheneg - 7.62x54mmR]]
[[File:MOHWPKP.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The PKP in action.]]
[[File:Mohw_pkp.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The PKP with a wooden stock, a PKM barrel and a carrying handle.]]

= Sniper Rifles =
== LaRue Tactical OBR 7.62 ==
The [[LaRue Tactical OBR|LaRue Tactical OBR 7.62]] is featured in the game as the main sniper rifle of the Delta Force and SAS-R factions. Stump and the other SEALs are using OBR 7.62 sniper rifles during the short mission ''Hat Trick''.
[[File:LaRue Tactical Stealth OSR.jpg|thumb|none|450px|LaRue Tactical OBR 7.62 with scope and Harris bipod - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[File:MOHW HatTrick.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump fires his LaRue OBR 7.62 during the mission ''Hat Trick'', which appears to be fitted with a "Hollywood" sound suppressor. It is worth noting that during the real hijacking of the Maersk Alabama, the SEALs were using [[SR-25|Mk 11 Mod 0]] sniper rifles.]]
[[File:MOHW_OBR1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|LaRue OBR 7.62 in Paint Job selection menu.]]
[[File:MOHW_OBR2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|LaRue OBR 7.62 in-game.]]
[[File:MOHW_OBR3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the LaRue OBR 7.62.]]

==McMillan CS5==
The [[McMillan CS5]] sniper rifle is usable by the FSK, SAS, and OGA factions. Stump is using a CS5 rifle during the mission ''Old Friends''.
[[image:CS5.jpg|thumb|none|451px|McMillan CS5 with suppressor and bipod - .308 Winchester]]
[[File:MOHW_CS51.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McMillan CS5 in Paint Job selection screen]]
[[File:MOHW_CS52.jpg|thumb|none|600px|McMillan CS5 in-game]]

==McMillan TAC-50 ==
The [[McMillan TAC-50]] heavy sniper rifle is also usable in the game. It is used by GROM, KSK, and JTF2. It is the only rifle in the game capable of one-shot-killing an enemy in the waist at full health.
[[File:McMillan Tac 50 A.large.jpg|thumb|none|450px|McMillan TAC-50 without optics - .50 BMG]]
[[File:MOHW_TAC501.jpg|600px|thumb|none|The McMillan TAC50 in the "My Gun" menu]]
[[File:MOHW_TAC502.jpg|600px|thumb|none|McMillan TAC50 in Paint Job customisation screen]]

== McMillan TAC-300 ==
The [[McMillan TAC-300]] was first seen held by a soldier at the end of a single-player trailer, later confirmed to be featured in the game in the E3 multi-player trailer. It is used prominently by Stump at the end of the mission ''Shore Leave'' where he must neutralize a number of RPG-toting Somali pirates before they can shoot down an American helicopter. Unlike most games, the player must compensate for wind and bullet drop when firing.
[[image:McMillan TAC-300.jpg|thumb|none|451px|McMillan TAC-300 with 8x40mm scope, Harris HEBR Swivel bipod, and Dark Earth finish - .300 Winchester]]
[[image:MOHW-McMillan.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[image:MoHW_TAC-300-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A US Navy SEAL operator with McMillan TAC-300 in the E3 multi-player trailer, fitted with Harris HEBR Swive bipod.]]
[[image:MoHW_TAC-300-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]
[[image:MOHWTAC300.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The McMillan TAC-300 in the second fireteam trailer.]]

= Grenade Launchers =
== Heckler & Koch M320 ==
The [[Heckler & Koch M320|H&K M320]] can be fitted on the [[Heckler & Koch HK416|HK416]] and Daniel Defense DDM4 V1 rifles.
[[File:XM320_stock_extended.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Heckler & Koch M320 with optional telescoping stock - 40x46mm]]
[[File:MOHW M320 Flip.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Switching to the M320: The player character flips up the ladder sight.]]
[[File:MOHW M320 Aim.jpg|thumb|none|600px|It is pretty hard to get points with the M320 when playing a Hardcore match, because the ladder sight cannot be aimed down. Normally, the crosshair would resemble the ladder sight.]]
[[File:MOHW M320 Reload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the M320 grenade launcher mounted on a Daniel Defense DDM4 V1 rifle.]]

== M79 ==
The [[M79 grenade launcher]] with a spare grenade is the special ability of the Assaulter class. If the player mounts a grenade launcher on his rifle, it will replace the M79.
[[File:M79-Grenade-Launcher.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M79 grenade launcher - 40x46mm]]
[[File:MOHWM79.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The player character readies the M79.]]
[[File:MoH M79.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Reloading the M79 grenade launcher.]]

== Milkor MGL Mk 1S ==
The [[Milkor MGL#MGL Mk 1S|MGL Mk 1S]] is the first offensive score streak of the Demolition Class (all nations). Referred to as "M32". It is possible to get 6 additional grenades from a buddy, however the reloading animation will be done off-screen.
[[File:MGL32.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Milkor MGL Mk 1S in desert tan finish fitted with Armson OEG reflex sight - 40x46mm]]
[[File:MOHW MGL Hold.jpg|thumb|none|601px|The player character holds an MGL Mk 1S launcher.]]
[[File:MOHW MGL Aim.jpg|thumb|none|601px|Aiming down the OEG reflex sight of the MGL.]]

= Rocket Launchers =
== Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW ==
The [[Mk_153_Mod_0_SMAW#Mk_153_Mod_0_SMAW|Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW]] with a spare rocket is the second offensive score streak of the Demo class (all nations). One SMAW must be used by Preacher during the intro level to take out an enemy helicopter.
[[File:Mk153SMAW.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW - 83mm]]
[[File:MOHWSMAW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW before being fired.]]
[[File:MOHWSMAW2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|First person view of the Mk 153 Mod 0 SMAW.]]

== RPG-7 ==
[[RPG-7#RPG-7|RPG-7]] launchers are used by various enemies throughout the single player campaign. It is not usable by the player, however.
[[File:Rpg-7-1-.jpg|thumb|none|450px|RPG-7 - 40mm]]
[[File:MOHW Pirate RPG7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Somali pirate tries to take out a Little Bird with his RPG-7. This view is through the scope of Stump's TAC-300 sniper rifle.]]

= Heavy Weapons =
== General Dynamics GAU-17/A ==
A [[GE_M134_Minigun#General_Dynamics_GAU-17.2FA|General Dynamics GAU-17/A Minigun]] is usable for a short time during the mission ''Rip Current'', when the player switches to Stump and covers Preacher and the other TF Mako members from the air. It is also mounted on Black Hawk helicopters in MP.
[[Image:GAU-17A HH60.jpg|thumb|none|400px|General Dynamics GAU-17/A, US Air Force version of the M134 Minigun - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MOHW GAU17A.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump engages some terrorists with the GAU-17/A.]]
[[Image:MOHW Stump GAU17A 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|... Then "zooms in" on an abandoned car, hoping that the explosion will take out multiple tangos quickly.]]
[[Image:MOHW GAU17A 1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|View of the GAU-17/A in multiplayer. This is the Black Hawk transport score streak, which is very similar to the Chopper Gunner seen in the ''Call of Duty'' series, however there are some differences: For example in ''MOHW'', the Black Hawk isn't moving and the player cannot choose where it will spawn, and the barrel of the GAU-17/A can overheat. The player can also be easily killed with bullets, since most of his body is exposed while manning the MG.]]
[[Image:MOHW GAU17A 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Covering a bomb site with a GAU-17/A machine gun.]]

== General Electric GAU-8/A Avenger ==
The [[General Electric GAU-8/A Avenger]] was seen in the E3 multiplayer trailer, mounted on an A-10 Thunderbolt II.
[[Image:GAU-8_Avenger_contrast.jpg|thumb|none|470px|GAU-8 Avenger - 30mm]]
[[image:MoHW_Vulcan.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A-10 firing the Avenger in the E3 trailer.]]

==M134 Minigun==
[[M134 Minigun]]s are mounted on Little Bird helicopters in both SP and MP.
[[Image:M134.JPG|thumb|none|400px|General Electric M134 - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MOHW LittleBird M134.jpg|thumb|none|600px|After Voodoo and Stump taking care of the RPG-toting pirates, a Little Bird arrives to Somalia to clean up what is left of the enemy forces.]]
[[Image:MOHW LittleBird M134 Fire.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Little Bird clears a path for Task Force Mako during the mission ''Connecting the Dots''.]]

== M230 Chain Gun ==
[[M230 Chain Gun]]s are mounted on AH-64D Apache Longbow helicopters visible during the opening of the level ''Shore Leave''. M230's are also featured in MP, mounted on Apaches.
[[Image:Hughes-M230-Chain-Gun3.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Hughes/Alliant Techsystems M230 30mm Chain Gun]]
[[Image:MoHW_M230.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M230 Chain Guns mounted on AH-64Ds.]]

== Mk 19 ==
An [[Mk 19 grenade launcher]] is seen mounted on a zodiac in the Official Announce Trailer. It is usable in multiplayer as a deployable tripod-fired weapon, by the "Heavy Gunner" class.
[[Image:US Mk. 19 40mm grenade machine-gun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Mk 19 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:MoHWM19.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]
[[Image:MoHWM19-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== ZU-23-2 ==
Unusable [[ZU-23-2]]'s are seen on numerous multiplayer maps. It is also featured in SP.
[[Image:ZU-23.jpg|thumb|none|350px|ZU-23-2 - 23mm]]

= Grenades & Mines =
==AN/M8 Smoke Grenade==
Enemies are using [[AN/M8 smoke grenade]]s at the hockey rink during the mission ''Old Friends''.
[[Image:AN-M8.jpg|thumb|none|140px|AN/M8 smoke grenade]]
[[Image:MOHW AN-M8.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Close-up of an AN/M8 smoke grenade, with the safety pin and lever still on.]]

== M67 Hand Grenade ==
The [[M67 hand grenade]] is used by the Assaulter and Spec Ops classes.
[[Image:Baseball.jpg|thumb|none|140px|M67 fragmentation grenade]]
[[Image:MOHW Stump M67 Throw.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Stump about to throw an M67 hand grenade.]]

== M84 Stun Grenade==
The [[M84 stun grenade]] is simply called the "Flashbang" or "FB" and is used by the Point Man class.
[[Image:M84stun.jpg|thumb|none|140px|M84 stun grenade]]
[[Image:MOHW Dingo M84 Breaching.jpg|thumb|none|600px|TF Mako member Dingo tosses an M84 stun grenade into the room after Voodoo had taken care of the door with a crowbar.]]
[[Image:MOHW M84 Throw.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Throwing an M84 flashbang.]]

== M86 Pursuit Deterrent Munition ==
The [[M86 Pursuit Deterrent Munition]] is used by snipers in MP. It is issued in pairs. The mine has a limited life and will self-destruct after a few minutes. Placing a jammer can also detonate enemy PDM's.
[[Image:M86 PDM.jpg|thumb|none|160px|M86 PDM]]
[[Image:MOHW PDM Throw.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Deploying an M86 PDM.]]
[[Image:MOHW PDM Ground.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A US Navy SEAL looks at a deployed M86 PDM.]]

== V40 Mini Grenade ==
[[V40 Mini Grenade]]s are used by the Heavy Gunner class. Three V40's are thrown at a time, resulting in a wider blast radius than the M67.
[[Image:V40.jpg|thumb|none|140px|Dutch V40 Mini Grenade]]
[[Image:MOHW V40 Throw.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A British SAS Heavy Gunner throws a cluster of V40 Mini Grenades.]]

= Other =
== M45 MEUSOC (Cut)==
A terrorist leader executes one of his own men with an [[M1911_pistol_series#M45_.2F_MEU.28SOC.29|M45 MEUSOC]] in the Official Announce Trailer, and reuses the exact model from ''[[Battlefield 3|BF3]]'', as a temporary stand-in. In the final game, the gun used in this scene is an MP-443, while a different 1911 variant is a usable weapon. The M45 is not included in the final game.
[[File:Silver MEU.jpg|thumb|none|400px|MEU(SOC) Pistol - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:MOHW 7.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A close up of the pistol as the hostage is shot.]]
[[Image:MoHWarfighter1911.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Khalifa is threatened with the M45. Note how the hammer is in the decocked position. The pistol would not fire in this condition.]]

== PKM ==
The [[PKM]] was seen on various promo images and wallpapers posted on the official web site and Facebook site of the game. This weapon is not seen in the actual game, but the player can customize the [[PKP Pecheneg]] with the PKM's furniture.
[[Image:HungarianPKM.jpg|thumb|450px|none|PKM with latest version of Flash hider - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[File:MOHW PKM.jpg|thumb|none|500px|Image from the official ''MOHW'' Facebook page.]]

== M40A3 Sniper Rifle (possibly cut) ==
An [[Remington Model 700#M40A3 Sniper Rifle|M40A3]] can be seen in one of the trailers being used by SEAL Team Six member Preacher. This scene in the final game has the M40 replaced with a TAC-300.

[[Image:M40a3.jpg|thumb|none|450px|M40A3 sniper rifle with Harris bipod - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:MOHW 2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|In pre-release footage, Preacher can be seen manning the M40A3 while Mother spots for him. Notice the bulkier stock and lack of a detachable box magazine, differentiating it from the TAC-300 in the final game.]]

{{Medal of Honor Series}}

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:Medal of Honor]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:War]]
[[Category:Drama]]

Far Cry 3

2012-12-02T05:17:20Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Makarov PB */

{{WIP}}
[[Image:Far-cry-3-box-art.JPG|thumb|right|301px|''Far Cry 3'' (2012). Earlier versions of this box art showed Vaas' Glock with slanted cocking serrations and, bizarrely, a cocked hammer.]]
'''The following weapons appear in the video game ''Far Cry 3'':'''
__TOC__ 
=Handguns=

==IMI Desert Eagle Mark XIX ==
The [[Desert Eagle Mark XIX]] is seen in numerous gameplay videos.
[[Image:DesertEagle50AE.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Desert Eagle Mark XIX - .50AE]]
[[Image:fc3deag.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

== Kimber Warrior ==

A [[Kimber Warrior]], simply called the "1911," is the first weapon encountered in the game; it is bought after Jason escapes from Vaas' camp with money given by Dennis Rogers, in order to introduce the shop system.

[[Image:KimberWarriorII.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Kimber Warrior - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:FC3-Kimber-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Per the grand traditions of the previous game, Jason Brody's first reflex on arriving in a tropical paradise is to accidentally set fire to it.]]
[[Image:FC3-Kimber-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jason empty-reloads his Kimber Warrior, impressing one of Vaas' henchmen with his reloading technique and his being-shot technique at the same time.]]

== Makarov PB ==
The [[Makarov PM#Makarov PB|Makarov PB]] appears as "6P9", its Soviet Army designation, in the game.
[[Image:Pb-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Makarov PB with integral suppressor - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[File:6P9andMKG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

== Smith & Wesson Model 629 ==

The ".44 Magnum" is a [[Smith & Wesson Model 629]] resembling a Performance Center "Stealth Hunter." By default it has a 4-inch barrel, but can be upgraded. The unlockable Signature "Cannon" pistol has a 6-inch barrel, a tube reflex optic and enhanced damage.

[[Image:170323_large.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Smith & Wesson Model 629 Stealth Hunter - .44 Magnum‎.]]

=Submachine Guns=
==Agram 2000==
The [[Agram 2000]] appears as "A2000" in a gameplay demo.
[[Image:AGRAM2000.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AGRAM 2000 - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:FAR CRY 3 Agram 2000.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

==Heckler & Koch MP5N==
The [[MP5N]] is known as the "MP5" in the game.
[[Image:Hk-mp5n.jpg|thumb|none|400px|H&K MP5N - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:FAR CRY 3 MP5N.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

==TDI Vector==
The [[TDI Vector]] with a suppressor and red dot sight is seen in a gameplay video.
[[Image:KrissSuperV.jpg|thumb|none|400px|TDI Vector SMG - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:FAR CRY 3 Vector.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

==PP-19 Bizon-2==
As the "BZ19".
[[Image:Bizon9x18.jpg|thumb|none|450px|PP-19 Bizon-2 with side-folding stock in folded position - 9x18mm Makarov]]
[[Image:FAR CRY 3 Vz61.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

==Skorpion Vz. 61==
Appears as "Skorpion".
[[Image:CZ Vz.61.jpg|thumb|350px|none|Vz. 61 Skorpion - .32 ACP]]
[[Image:FAR CRY 3 Vz61.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

=Shotguns=

==Franchi SPAS-12==
[[Image:Franchi12.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
[[Image:fc3spas.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]

== Baikal MP-133 ==

The cheapest shotgun in the game is a Baikal MP-133 called the "M133." It is a custom version with synthetic furniture, a forend from a [[Remington 870]], a vented rib barrel, and an accessory rail mounted atop the receiver. It has an extended 6-round magazine tube, and is seemingly always assumed to have a chambered round since its capacity is 7 rounds. The basic model has no customisation options, but the Signature version, the "Bull," comes with a reflex sight and has an extended magazine, though as with all weapons this is not shown on the model.

[[Image:Mp133-1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Baikal MP-133 with extended magazine tube - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:FC3-Baikal-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Baikal MP-133 in the store menu.]]

==Winchester Model 1887==

A [[Winchester Model 1887]], simply called the 1887, is available from the store as soon as it is unlocked. In a rare case of an 1887 in a videogame ''not'' being based on the one from ''Terminator 2'', it is shown with a full-length barrel.

[[Image:Winchester1887shotgun.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Winchester 1887 shotgun - 12 gauge]]
[[Image:FC3-1887-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Winchester Model 1887 in the store menu.]]

=Assault Rifles & Battle Rifles=

== AK-103 ==
The [[AK-47#AK-103|AK-103]] appears in the game, identifiable due to 90 degree gas block, [[AK-74]] type muzzle brake, and use of metal 7.62x39mm [[AK-47]] magazines. It is a common weapon among Vaas' thugs, and the cheapest assault rifle in the game.

The in-game AK is fitted with an accessory rail on the top of the receiver attached via the mounting bracket on the left side of the lower receiver, an AKM / early AK-74 ribbed reciever cover, wooden AK-74 stock and handguard, and an early AK-47 pistol grip, complete with an earlier, thicker reinforcement plate.

[[Image:AK103.jpg|thumb|none|400px|AK-103 - 7.62x39mm]]
[[Image:FC3-AK-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jason holds an AK-103, having claimed both it and a boat from a man who was so excited to be of help that he had to have a lie down.]]
[[File:FarCry3AKFire.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Firing the AK-103 from behind cover, notice there is no finger anywhere near the trigger.]]
[[File:FC3AKReload.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading the AK-103. Note the bullet(s) lack textures.]]
[[File:FC3AK2.JPG|thumb|none|600px|An enemy brandishing an AK-103 in ''Far Cry 3'']]

==FAMAS G2==
[[Image:Famas g2.jpg|thumb|none|400px|FAMAS G2 5.56x45mm with proprietary bipod deployed]]
[[Image:fc3fam.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

==Galil ACE 53==
The [[Galil ACE|Galil ACE 53]] appears as "ACE" in the game.
[[Image:Galil ACE 53.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Galil ACE 53 - 7.62x51mm]]
[[Image:FAR CRY 3 ACE53.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

== Heckler & Koch HK416 ==
The [[HK416]] appears as "P416" in the game.
[[Image:Heckler and Koch 416.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Heckler & Koch HK416 with 10 inch barrel - 5.56x45mm NATO]]

== SIG SG 552-2 ==

The [[SIG SG 552|SIG SG 552-2]] is referred to as the "STG-90" and is one of the cheaper assault rifles. It always has a vertical foregrip, and can be equipped with an extended magazine or a red dot sight.

[[Image:SIG SG 553-2.jpg|thumb|400px|none|SIG SG 552-2, version with permanent scope rail - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:FC3-Sig-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jason holds a SIG SG 552-2 with a red dot sight as he admires the scenery.]]
[[Image:FC3-Sig-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|He soon discovers that while reloading is mandatory, bullets are not.]]

==Springfield Armory M1A SOCOM 16==

A [[SOCOM 16]] with a left-handed ejection port is available, incorrectly classified as an assault rifle and called the "MS16." By default it has only iron sights, making it a semi-automatic battle rifle, but it can be fitted with a tube reflex sight to make it into a mid-range marksman's rifle. It can also be fitted with a suppressor, extended magazine, or one of two types of open reflex sight.

[[Image:M1A-Socom.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M1A SOCOM 16 - 7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Winchester)]]
[[Image:FC3-SOCOM-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jason holds a SOCOM 16 fitted with a suppressor and tube reflex optic as he realises it is a good idea to stop and let others cross the road. This SOCOM 16 has the wood "paint scheme" applied to it, which actually replaces all the furnishings with wooden equivalents.]]

=Light Machine Guns=

==PKM==
[[Image:PKM-mg.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:fc3pkm.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

==STK Ultimax 100 Mark 3==
[[Image:Ultimax mk3 2.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]
[[Image:fc3stk.jpg|thumb|none|400px]]

=Sniper Rifles=

==Remington M40A5==

The "M700" sniper rifle appears to be an [[M40A5]], since it has a projecting, detachable magazine. This has the correct five-round capacity, though the extended magazine upgrade increases this to ten without visually altering the weapon. It can also be customised with increased zoom, an illuminated reticle and a suppressor. The pre-order bonus version, the "M700 Predator," has all four upgrades, while the normal weapon can only have two.

[[Image:M40A5.jpg|thumb|none|400px|M40A5 sniper rifle with Harris bipod - 7.62x51mm NATO]]
[[Image:FC3-Remington-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jason holds his "M700 Predator" after dealing with a shark who had been breaking all the shark rules. The shark rules say you should swim around and eat fish, but this shark was trying to walk on the ground and eat crabs. The other sharks really didn't like having to look at that.]]

== SVD-M Dragunov ==

The [[SVD Dragunov|SVD-M]] is the cheapest sniper rifle in the game, and is available from the start. It is a left-handed weapon wielded by a right-handed shooter (as in ''[[Far Cry 2]]''); however, the magazine, forend, and reticle have been modified to more realistic specifications. The weapon has no accessories, and has a capacity of just five rounds, meaning the magazine is only half loaded.

[[Image:SVD-TigerCarbine.jpg‎|thumb|none|400px|Commercial "Tiger Carbine" (aka "Dragunov Tiger") version sold in the US, with synthetic furnishings used on domestic SVD-M modernized variant - 7.62x54mm R]]
[[Image:FC3-SVD-1.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Jason lurks his way along a road at night, armed with an SVD-M.]]
[[Image:FC3-SVD-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Reloading; Jason flicks the magazine release with his thumb and them flicks the old magazine forward, replacing it with five fresh rounds of nothing.]]
[[Image:FC3-SVD-3.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Scope of the SVD; while it lacks a ground line for the stadiametric rangefinder, it is otherwise fairly accurate.]]

=Launchers=
==GM-94==
A [[GM-94]] pump-action grenade launcher is seen in a gameplay video.
[[Image:Gm94.jpg|thumb|none|451px|GM-94 grenade launcher - 43mm]]
[[Image:FAR CRY 3 GM94.jpg|thumb|none|600px|First-person view of a GM-94 launcher.]]

=Heavy Weaponry=

== DShK Heavy Machine Gun ==
In some levels, the player can use tripod-mounted [[DShK heavy machine gun]]s to lay down fire on enemies.

[[Image:DSHK.jpg|thumb|none|300px|DShK heavy machine gun mounted on tripod 12.7x108mm]]
[[Image:FC3_M60.jpg|thumb|none|600px|DShK heavy machine gun ingame.]]

{{Cry Series}}

[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:Canadian Produced/Filmed]]

Forgotten Hope 2

2012-12-01T21:10:54Z

Jeddostotle7: /* MP40 */

{{WorkInProgress}}
'''The following weapons appear in the video game ''Forgotten Hope 2'':'''
[[File:FH2.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Forgotten Hope 2'' (2005)]]
''NOTE: For the original game, see ''[[Battlefield 2]]''.'

=Sidearms=
==Colt M1911A1==
The [[M1911_pistol_series#M1911A1|Colt M1911A1]] is the main sidearm for the U.S. Army faction and a secondary sidearm for the British and Canadian factions. Unlike in [[Battlefield 2]], where every class is issued a sidearm, only the Non-Commissioned Officers, Support Gunners, Sidearms and Antitank Infantry carry them in ''Forgotten Hope 2''. Each faction are issued only three magazines, or eighteen rounds for the revolvers, and their short range and stopping power makes them only useful in desperate, close quarter situations. The weapon is merely referred to as the ''Colt M1911'' in-game, dropping the A1 designation.
[[File:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|none|300px|World War II issued Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP]]

==M1917 Revolver==
The Colt Military version of the [[M1917 Revolver]] is carried as a back-up weapon by U.S. Army Support Gunners. What appears to be a silver M1917 revolver also appears rarely in-game.
[[File:ColtModel1917.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Colt M1917 Revolver (Military issue with lanyard ring) - .45 ACP. Note the unsupported ejector rod - common of Colt revolvers of the period, as well as the Colt-style cylinder release latch.]]

==Webley Mk VI==
The [[Webley_Mk_VI#Webley_.455_Mk_VI|Webley Mk VI]] is the main sidearm for the Commonwealth faction (Great Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) in-game.
[[File:Webley.JPG|thumb|none|300px|Webley Mk. VI - .455 Webley]]

==Webley & Scott MkIII==
The [[Webley & Scott Signal Pistols|Webley & Scott MkIII]] flare pistol is issued to New Zealand LRDG Commandos in ''Operation Hyacinth''. It fires a dull flare on a well-lit map and is no use against enemy soldiers, making it practically useless except as scenery. It is referred to as the ''No3 Mk1 Very''.
[[File:Webley & Scott MkIII Signal.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Webley & Scott MkIII Signal Pistol - 1 inch]]

==Browning Hi-Power==
The [[Browning Hi-Power]], along with the [[M1911_pistol_series#M1911A1|Colt M1911A1]], is carried by several classes of the British and Canadian factions. It is also used (although scarcely) by the German faction on occasion. A variant of the in-game Hi-Power, fitted with a "broomhandle" stock, can be used by British classes on several maps.
[[File:Browning-HP-P35.jpg|thumb|none|300px|The first version of the classic pistol, developed by John Browning and adopted by Belgium in 1935, the '''FN P-35''' - 9x19mm. During World War II, the Germans would occupy the Belgian firearms factories and continued to produce this gun, still called the P-35, but with Waffenamt stamps. The Design would be adopted by other countries and manufactured abroad with the generic designation simply as the "Browning High Power".]]
[[File:BHP Broomhandle.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Browning Hi-Power fitted with a "broomhandle" stock - 9x19mm]]

==Luger P08==
The [[Luger P08]] can be used by several German classes, although is it largely supplemented by the [[Walther P38]].
[[File:LugerP08Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Luger P08 - 9x19mm]]

==Walther P38==
The [[Walther P38]] is the main sidearm for the German faction in-game.
[[File:P38.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Walther P38 pistol (manufactured at the Mauser Factory) - World War II dated - 9x19mm]]

==Sauer 38H==
The [[Sauer 38H]] is available in some maps as a sidearm for the German faction. Historically, the Sauer 38H was developed in Nazi Germany as a competitor for the [[Luger P08]] and [[Walther P38]], although the Sauer was mostly used by Police Officers whilst the Luger and Walther typically ended up amongst front-line troops.
[[File:Sauer38h.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Sauer 38H - .32 ACP]]

==Beretta M1934==
The [[Beretta M1934]] appears as the sidearm for the Italian faction. It is simply referred to as the ''Beretta 34'' in-game.
[[File:Beretta Model 1934 Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Beretta Model 1934 - .380 ACP. On the slide are reported the year of production (in this case 1941) and in roman numerals the year fascist.]]

=Submachine Guns=
==M1928 Thompson==
The [[Thompson_Submachine_Gun#M1928.2FM1928A1_Thompson|M1928 Thompson]] is used by Commonwealth factions in Greece, Crete and North Africa. It fires from both a 30-round stick and 50-round drum magazine, and can be selected to fire both at a single and full automatic rate of fire. Out of all the submachine guns in the game, the Thompson's have the highest recoil.
[[File:M1928.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1928 "Tommy Gun" or "Chicago typewriter" with 50-round drum magazine - .45 ACP, made famous through countless classic gangster movies.]]

==M1A1 Thompson==
The [[Thompson_Submachine_Gun#M1A1_Thompson|M1A1 Thompson]] is used by the U.S. faction, as well as by some British and Canadian classes. It uses a 30-round stick magazine and, like the M1928, fires at both single and full automatic.
[[File:M1sb.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1A1 Thompson with 30-round magazine - .45 ACP]]

==M3 Grease Gun==
On some maps, the [[M3 / M3A1 "Grease Gun"|M3 Grease Gun]] replaces the [[M1 Carbine]] as the weapon for the U.S. assault Class.
[[File:M3_Grease.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M3 "Grease Gun" .45 ACP. The later model M3A1 would eliminate the crank lever for cocking the bolt, and instead used a simple hole in the bolt for the shooter to use their finger.]]

==Sten Mk II==
The [[Sten Mk II]] is used by the British and Canadian factions in France. The suppressed [[Sten Mk IIS]] is used by Royal Marine Commandos in ''Port en Bessin''. It can be fired in single or full automatic.
[[File:Sten.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sten Mk II - 9x19mm]]
[[File:StenMKIISilenced.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sten Mk IIS - 9x19mm]]

==MP40==
The [[MP40#MP40|MP40]] is used by the German faction. It was the standard submachinegun of Germany during World war 2.
[[File:MP40.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MP40 - 9x19mm]]

==Beretta Model 38A==
The [[Beretta_Model_38#Beretta_Model_38A|Beretta Model 38A]] is used by the Italian faction. Many where captured by Nazi germany and can be found on normandy maps as an easter egg.
[[File:Beretta_Model_38A.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Beretta Model 38A - 9x19mm]]

=Rifles=
==M1903A1 Springfield==
The [[M1903_Springfield#M1903A1_Springfield_Rifle|M1903A1 Springfield]] rifle is the weapon for the U.S. Army Rangers Recon Class. It now also appears in the Tunesian campaign in the engineer class.
[[File:M1903A1Springfield.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1903A1 Springfield - .30-06]]

==M1903A4 Springfield==
The [[M1903_Springfield#M1903A4_Springfield_Sniper_Rifle|M1903A4 Springfield]] is the sniper rifle for the U.S. Army Faction. Unlike in [[Battlefield 2]], where there is a default sniper class, sniper rifles in Forgotten Hope 2 function as an "Easter Egg", as they can be only picked up from odd locations in maps, such as the main base or recently captured spawn points.
[[File:Rifle_Springfield_M1903A4_with_M84_sight.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1903A4 Springfield sniper variant with M84 scope - .30-06]]

==M1917 Enfield==
The [[M1917 Enfield]] can occasionally be found as part of a U.S. Army Engineer Kit which can only be picked up as an "easter egg". This weapon substitutes demolitions for an ammunition box.
[[File:M1917enfield.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1917 Enfield - .30-06]]

==M1 Garand==
Unsurprisingly, the [[M1 Garand]] makes an appearance as the main service rifle of the U.S. Army Faction. It can be fitted with a bayonet and, on some maps, a rifle grenade launcher.
[[File:M1_Garand.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1 Garand semiautomatic Rifle with leather M1917 sling - .30-06]]

==M1 Carbine==
The [[M1_Carbine#M1.2FM1A1_Carbine|M1 Carbine]] is primarily used by the U.S. Army Faction Engineer Class. It is animated with the buttstock twin magazine pouch.
[[File:M1-Carbine.jpg|thumb|none|350px|World War II Era M1 Carbine, with Dark Walnut Stock, 'L' peep sight and no bayonet lug - .30 Carbine - correct for most of WWII, shown with khaki sling and oiler and a period twin magazine pouch for buttstock.]]

==M1A1 Carbine==
The [[M1_Carbine#M1.2FM1A1_Carbine|M1A1 Carbine]] appears in maps featuring the 101st Airborne Division.
[[File:M1A1Carbine.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1A1 Carbine with original L style rear sights, and side-folding stock, often referred to as the 'Paratrooper' carbine - .30 Carbine]]

==Pattern M1914==
The earliest model of the [[M1917 Enfield]], the Pattern M1914, fitted with a telescopic sight, is used as a sniper rifle by Commonwealth forces in maps set in Greece, Crete and North Africa.
[[File:Pattern1914scoped.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Pattern M1914 (P 14) Enfield sniper variant fitted with telescopic sight - .30-06]]

==Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III*==
The [[Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_(SMLE)#Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_rifle|Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III*]] is the main weapon of Commonwealth forces in Greece, Crete and North Africa. It can be fitted with a bayonet, and on some maps, a rifle grenade launcher. It is easily distinguished from the No.4 Mk.I* by it's stubbier shape, shorter muzzle and simplified, non-hooded iron sights.
[[File:SMLE.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III* - .303 British. This was the main battle rifle of British and Commonwealth forces during the First World War, introduced in 1907 it has seen action throughout the 20th century.]]

==Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I==
British and Canadian factions fighting in France use the [[Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_(SMLE)#Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_rifle|Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I]]. It can be fitted with a bayonet, and on some maps, a rifle grenade launcher. In contrast to the No.1 Mk.III*, it has an elongated sights and hooded, more accurate iron sights.
[[File:LeeEnfield4Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I - .303 British. This was the main battle rifle of British and Commonwealth forces during World War Two, however, it was supplemented heavily with the older Lee Enfield No.1 MK.III. First placed in service with the British military in 1941.]]

==Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I(T)==
The [[Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_(SMLE)#Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_rifle|Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I(T)]] is used as a sniper rifle by British and Canadian forces in France.
[[File:Smle4mk1t.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I(T) with magazine and scope - .303 British]]

==Karabiner 98k==
The [[Karabiner 98k]] is the main weapon of the German Army faction in-game. It can be fitted with a bayonet, and on some maps, a rifle grenade launcher. An interesting difference in models from maps set in North Africa and post D-Day Europe is the iron sights - the former maps feature "curved" iron sights, whilst the latter have hooded sights, making them more accurate. Two more models, respectively fitted with a 1.5x Zeiss ZF41 scope and a Zeiss ZF42 telescopic sight can be picked up as "easter eggs".
[[File:Karabiner-98K.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Karabiner 98k - German manufacture 1937 date - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[File:98kZF4.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Karabiner 98k with Zeiss ZF41 1.5x scope and hooded front sight - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[File:Tur3.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Karabiner 98k with Zeiss ZF42 scope and hooded front sight - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==Gewehr 43==
The [[Gewehr 43]] makes an appearance in maps set post D-Day. One model with a ZF4 scope can be picked up as an "easter egg".
[[File:K43_nc.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Gewehr 43 - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[File:Gew 43.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Gewehr 43 with ZF 4 scope - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==FG 42==
The [[FG 42]] is used by the German Fallschirmjäger in the ''Purple Heart Lane'' map. One model is fitted with a ZF4 scope.
[[File:FG421stPattern.jpg|thumb|none|350px|FG 42 with iron sights flipped up (no scope mounted), 1st pattern (metal buttstock and sharly-angled pistol grip) - 7.92x57mm Mauser‎]]
[[File:Firearm FG42.jpg|thumb|none|350px|FG 42 1st pattern with ZF4 scope - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==Sturmgewehr 44==
The [[Sturmgewehr 44]] can be used by the German faction in maps set in post D-Day Belgium. One model is fitted with a ZF4 scope.
[[File:Sturmgewehr 44.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sturmgewehr 44 - 7.92x33mm]]
[[File:StG-44 + ZF4.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sturmgewehr 44 with ZF4 scope - 7.92x33mm]]

==Carcano M91==
The [[Carcano_Rifle_Series#Carcano_M91_Rifle|Carcano M91]] is the main rifle for the Italian faction. It can be fitted with a bayonet.
[[File:Carcano91.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Carcano M91 Short Rifle for Cavalry- 6.5mm]]

==Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle==
The [[Carcano_Rifle_Series#Carcano_M91.2F38_Short_Rifle|Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle]] is also issued to the Italian faction. Like the Carcano 91, it can be fitted with a bayonet.
[[File:CarcanoM91-38ShortRifle.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle for infantry, engineers and artillery troops- 6.5mm]]

=Shotguns=
==M30 Luftwaffe Drilling==
The [[M30 Luftwaffe Drilling]] can be found in-game as an "easter egg". It fires two 12 Gauge shotgun rounds and a single 9.3x74mmR rifle round.
[[File:M30LuftwaffenDrilling.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M30 Luftwaffe Drilling - 12 Gauge, 9.3x74mmR]]

==Winchester Model 1912==
The [[Winchester Model 1912]] "Trench Gun" can be picked up and used by the US faction as an "easter egg".
[[File:WinchesterM12Trench.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Winchester Model 1912 "Trench Gun" with heat shield and bayonet lug - 12 Gauge]]

=Machine Guns=
==M1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle==
The [[Browning Automatic Rifle|M1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle]] is the main weapon for the U.S. Faction Support Class. It can be fired from the hip, but a deployable bipod can also be used for more stabilized firing and accuracy. The player has to be prone to use the bipod. Amusingly, in the map ''Ramelle-Neuville'', a reference to the climatic battle of [[Saving Private Ryan]], the B.A.R used by PFC Reiben ([[Edward Burns]]) in the film has been modeled for the game, with the bipod removed and the ability to fire at both the default 450 rpm and the increased 600 rpm used by Reiben in the film.
[[File:BAR.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle - .30-06]]

==Browning M1919A6==
The [[Browning M1919A6]] is used by the 101st Airborne Faction in Belgium. It has to be deployed to fire. It can also be found in stationary machine gun nests.
[[File:M1919a6.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning M1919A6 Machine Gun, "Paratrooper Model - .30-06". With wooden stock and bipod. An attempt to make an infantry portable "light" machine gun of the standard 1919.]]

==Bren Mk1==
The [[Bren gun|Bren Mk1]] is the main weapon for the Commonwealth support gunner class. It can be deployed on a bipod for more stable fire and accuracy, and fired at single or full automatic. It can also be used in a tripod anti-aircraft stand, and is mounted on the Daimler Dingo Mk 1 and the Universal Carrier.
[[File:Bren_gun.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Bren Mk1 - .303 British]]

==Lewis Gun==
A portable version of the [[Lewis Gun]], which has to be deployed in the prone position to be fired, is used by the support class of a New Zealand LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) in North Africa. It is also mounted in machine gun nests and on Chevy 30WCT jeeps alongside the [[Vickers|Vickers Mk1]], and LCA (Landing Craft, Assault) transports.
[[File:Lewis gun.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Lewis Gun - .303 British]]

==ZB26 Machine Gun==
The [[ZB26 Machine Gun]] is carried by German soldiers on ''Pointe-du-Hoc''. This is historically accurate, as the Wehrmacht was so impressed by the Czech machine gun they adopted it under the designation of MG26(t). It fires in either semi or full-automatic and can be deployed on a bipod.
[[File:ZB-26.jpg|thumb|none|350px|ZB26 Light Machine Gun - 7.92x57mm]]

==MG34==
The [[MG34]] is carried by German Machine Gunners in the North African, Greece and Crete maps. Afterwards, it can be used mounted on the Lafette tripod with a 1.5x optical sight and in machine gun nests. The MG34 is mounted on the front and back of the SdKfz 251/1 Ausf. C "Hanomag" haltrack and coaxially on the SdKfz 222 armored car. The MG34 is also pintle-mounted on the SdKfz 231 armored cars and the Panzer II, III and IV, Panther and Tiger tanks and the Jagdpanzer 38 assault gun, and on the turret of the StuG 40, StuG IV and Jagdpanzer 38(t) assault guns.
[[File:Mg-34man-portable.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MG34 with 50 round "assault drum" - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==MG42==
The [[MG42]] is used by German soldiers in France and Belgium. It has to be deployed to fire. It can be seen mounted in machine gun nests, on the Lafette tripod with a 1.5x optical sight, and on the turret of the SdKfz 251/1 Ausf. D "Hanomag" halftrack and the Panther tank.
[[File:MG42.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MG42 Machine Gun - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==Breda Modello 30==
The [[Breda Modello 30]] is carried by Italian Machine Gunners. It has to be deployed to fire, and can operate in semi or full automatic.
[[File:800px-Breda 30.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Breda Modello 30 - 6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano]]

=Emplaced Weapons=
==Browning M1919A4==
The [[Browning_M1919#Browning_M1919A4|Browning M1919A4]] can be picked up from US bases and depots as an "easter egg". It is deployed by throwing down the portable tripod, which sets up the gun in prone position on an M2 tripod. The M1919A4 is also mounted the turret of the M3 Stuart II and M5A1 Stuart light tanks, and pintle-mounted in the the hull of the Stuart "Recce" and the M8 Greyhound Armored Car, and coaxially on the M24 Chafee, the M3 Grant Mk 1, the M4A1/M4A3 Sherman and the M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo, as well as the British Sherman II, Sherman V and Sherman VC "Firefly".
[[File:M1919A4Browning.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning M1919A4 on M2 tripod - .30-06]]

==Browning M2HB==
The [[Browning_M2#Browning_M2_Heavy_Barrel|Browning M2HB]] is turret-mounted on the Willys MB Jeep, Stuart "Recce", M3A1 and M5A1 Halftrack, M8 Greyhound, M4A3 Sherman and the Archilles IIC, M10, M18 Hellcat and M36 Jackson tank destroyers. The M51 Quad Mounted System is also mounted at US bases and on the M16 MGMC (a Halftrack fitted with the M51).
[[File:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning M2HB on vehicle mount - .50 BMG]]
[[File:M51_Quad.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning M2HB's in M51 Quad Mounted System - .50 BMG]]

==Besa Machine Gun==
The [[ZB-53_/_Vz.37|Besa Machine Gun]] is pintle-mounted on the Cruiser Mk IVA, Matilda Mk II, Valentine Mk II, Churchill Mk IV, Crusader Mk I and III and Cromwell IV tanks.
[[File:BESA.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Besa tank machine gun - 7.92×57mm Mauser]]

==Vickers Mk1==
The [[Vickers|Vickers Mk1]] is used by Commonwealth forces in-game. It can be picked up and deployed into a stationary weapon via tripod, found mounted in machine gun nests or on Chevy 30WCT jeeps and the Universal Carrier.
[[File:VickersMk1.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Vickers Mk1 Machine Gun - .303 British]]

==Vickers .50 Machine Gun==
The [[Vickers#Vickers_.50_machine_gun|Vickers .50 Machine Gun]] is mounted on the Vickers Light Tank Mk VI B.
[[File:Vickers50.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Vickers .50 machine gun - Essentially the Mk1 but chambered in .50 caliber. Mounted on Armored Vehicles and used as Navy AA until supplemented by the Besa and Oerlikon 20mm Cannon - 12.7x81mm]]

==Vickers K==
The [[Vickers K]] can be seen dual-mounted on Willys MB jeeps used by the LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) in North Africa.
[[File:Vickersk.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Vickers K - .303 British]]

==MG15==
The [[MG15 machine gun|MG15]], fitted with a 50-round drum magazine, is mounted in German bunkers as a light antiaircraft weapon, and on the tailgunner seat on the Junkers Ju-87 "Stuka".
[[File:MG15.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MG15 machine gun with 50-round drum - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==MG17==
The [[MG17 machine gun|MG17]] is mounted on the Messerschmitt BF 109 fighter planes and the Junkers Ju-87 "Stuka".
[[File:MG 17.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MG17 machine gun - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==ZB-53==
The [[ZB-53 / Vz.37|ZB-53]] is mounted on the Marder III tank destroyer under the designation of MG37(t).
[[File:ZB-53.jpg|thumb|none|350px|ZB-53 machine gun on tripod - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==Breda Modello 37==
The [[Breda_Modello_30#Breda_Modello_37|Breda Modello 37]] can be seen tripod mounted in-game. It is also bipod-mounted in Italian machine gun nests, and on the Camionetta 42 "Sahariana" scoutcar.
[[File:Bredam37.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Breda Modello 37 - 8x59mm RB Breda]]

==Breda Modello 38==
The [[Breda_Modello_30#Breda_Modello_38|Breda Modello 38]] is mounted coaxially on the Carro Armato L6/40 light tank and Fiat M11/39 and Carro Armato M13/40 medium tanks used by the Italian faction.
[[File:Breda38.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Breda 38 tank mounted machine gun - 8x59mm RB Breda]]

[[Category:Battlefield]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:War]]

Forgotten Hope 2

2012-12-01T21:10:38Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Sten Mk II */

{{WorkInProgress}}
'''The following weapons appear in the video game ''Forgotten Hope 2'':'''
[[File:FH2.jpg|thumb|right|300px|''Forgotten Hope 2'' (2005)]]
''NOTE: For the original game, see ''[[Battlefield 2]]''.'

=Sidearms=
==Colt M1911A1==
The [[M1911_pistol_series#M1911A1|Colt M1911A1]] is the main sidearm for the U.S. Army faction and a secondary sidearm for the British and Canadian factions. Unlike in [[Battlefield 2]], where every class is issued a sidearm, only the Non-Commissioned Officers, Support Gunners, Sidearms and Antitank Infantry carry them in ''Forgotten Hope 2''. Each faction are issued only three magazines, or eighteen rounds for the revolvers, and their short range and stopping power makes them only useful in desperate, close quarter situations. The weapon is merely referred to as the ''Colt M1911'' in-game, dropping the A1 designation.
[[File:M1911Colt.jpg|thumb|none|300px|World War II issued Colt M1911A1 Pistol - .45 ACP]]

==M1917 Revolver==
The Colt Military version of the [[M1917 Revolver]] is carried as a back-up weapon by U.S. Army Support Gunners. What appears to be a silver M1917 revolver also appears rarely in-game.
[[File:ColtModel1917.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Colt M1917 Revolver (Military issue with lanyard ring) - .45 ACP. Note the unsupported ejector rod - common of Colt revolvers of the period, as well as the Colt-style cylinder release latch.]]

==Webley Mk VI==
The [[Webley_Mk_VI#Webley_.455_Mk_VI|Webley Mk VI]] is the main sidearm for the Commonwealth faction (Great Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) in-game.
[[File:Webley.JPG|thumb|none|300px|Webley Mk. VI - .455 Webley]]

==Webley & Scott MkIII==
The [[Webley & Scott Signal Pistols|Webley & Scott MkIII]] flare pistol is issued to New Zealand LRDG Commandos in ''Operation Hyacinth''. It fires a dull flare on a well-lit map and is no use against enemy soldiers, making it practically useless except as scenery. It is referred to as the ''No3 Mk1 Very''.
[[File:Webley & Scott MkIII Signal.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Webley & Scott MkIII Signal Pistol - 1 inch]]

==Browning Hi-Power==
The [[Browning Hi-Power]], along with the [[M1911_pistol_series#M1911A1|Colt M1911A1]], is carried by several classes of the British and Canadian factions. It is also used (although scarcely) by the German faction on occasion. A variant of the in-game Hi-Power, fitted with a "broomhandle" stock, can be used by British classes on several maps.
[[File:Browning-HP-P35.jpg|thumb|none|300px|The first version of the classic pistol, developed by John Browning and adopted by Belgium in 1935, the '''FN P-35''' - 9x19mm. During World War II, the Germans would occupy the Belgian firearms factories and continued to produce this gun, still called the P-35, but with Waffenamt stamps. The Design would be adopted by other countries and manufactured abroad with the generic designation simply as the "Browning High Power".]]
[[File:BHP Broomhandle.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Browning Hi-Power fitted with a "broomhandle" stock - 9x19mm]]

==Luger P08==
The [[Luger P08]] can be used by several German classes, although is it largely supplemented by the [[Walther P38]].
[[File:LugerP08Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Luger P08 - 9x19mm]]

==Walther P38==
The [[Walther P38]] is the main sidearm for the German faction in-game.
[[File:P38.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Walther P38 pistol (manufactured at the Mauser Factory) - World War II dated - 9x19mm]]

==Sauer 38H==
The [[Sauer 38H]] is available in some maps as a sidearm for the German faction. Historically, the Sauer 38H was developed in Nazi Germany as a competitor for the [[Luger P08]] and [[Walther P38]], although the Sauer was mostly used by Police Officers whilst the Luger and Walther typically ended up amongst front-line troops.
[[File:Sauer38h.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Sauer 38H - .32 ACP]]

==Beretta M1934==
The [[Beretta M1934]] appears as the sidearm for the Italian faction. It is simply referred to as the ''Beretta 34'' in-game.
[[File:Beretta Model 1934 Pistol.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Beretta Model 1934 - .380 ACP. On the slide are reported the year of production (in this case 1941) and in roman numerals the year fascist.]]

=Submachine Guns=
==M1928 Thompson==
The [[Thompson_Submachine_Gun#M1928.2FM1928A1_Thompson|M1928 Thompson]] is used by Commonwealth factions in Greece, Crete and North Africa. It fires from both a 30-round stick and 50-round drum magazine, and can be selected to fire both at a single and full automatic rate of fire. Out of all the submachine guns in the game, the Thompson's have the highest recoil.
[[File:M1928.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1928 "Tommy Gun" or "Chicago typewriter" with 50-round drum magazine - .45 ACP, made famous through countless classic gangster movies.]]

==M1A1 Thompson==
The [[Thompson_Submachine_Gun#M1A1_Thompson|M1A1 Thompson]] is used by the U.S. faction, as well as by some British and Canadian classes. It uses a 30-round stick magazine and, like the M1928, fires at both single and full automatic.
[[File:M1sb.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1A1 Thompson with 30-round magazine - .45 ACP]]

==M3 Grease Gun==
On some maps, the [[M3 / M3A1 "Grease Gun"|M3 Grease Gun]] replaces the [[M1 Carbine]] as the weapon for the U.S. assault Class.
[[File:M3_Grease.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M3 "Grease Gun" .45 ACP. The later model M3A1 would eliminate the crank lever for cocking the bolt, and instead used a simple hole in the bolt for the shooter to use their finger.]]

==Sten Mk II==
The [[Sten Mk II]] is used by the British and Canadian factions in France. The suppressed [[Sten Mk IIS]] is used by Royal Marine Commandos in ''Port en Bessin''. It can be fired in single or full automatic.
[[File:Sten.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sten Mk II - 9x19mm]]
[[File:StenMKIISilenced.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sten Mk IIS - 9x19mm]]

==MP40==
The [[MP40#MP40|MP40]] is used by the German faction. It was the standard submachinegun of Germany during World war 2. It was often claimed that holding the weapon by the magazine would cause a misfire. However, this is a popular misconception, it was actually very common to hold the weapon by the magazine due to the lack of space to hold it elsewhere.
[[File:MP40.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MP40 - 9x19mm]]

==Beretta Model 38A==
The [[Beretta_Model_38#Beretta_Model_38A|Beretta Model 38A]] is used by the Italian faction. Many where captured by Nazi germany and can be found on normandy maps as an easter egg.
[[File:Beretta_Model_38A.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Beretta Model 38A - 9x19mm]]

=Rifles=
==M1903A1 Springfield==
The [[M1903_Springfield#M1903A1_Springfield_Rifle|M1903A1 Springfield]] rifle is the weapon for the U.S. Army Rangers Recon Class. It now also appears in the Tunesian campaign in the engineer class.
[[File:M1903A1Springfield.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1903A1 Springfield - .30-06]]

==M1903A4 Springfield==
The [[M1903_Springfield#M1903A4_Springfield_Sniper_Rifle|M1903A4 Springfield]] is the sniper rifle for the U.S. Army Faction. Unlike in [[Battlefield 2]], where there is a default sniper class, sniper rifles in Forgotten Hope 2 function as an "Easter Egg", as they can be only picked up from odd locations in maps, such as the main base or recently captured spawn points.
[[File:Rifle_Springfield_M1903A4_with_M84_sight.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1903A4 Springfield sniper variant with M84 scope - .30-06]]

==M1917 Enfield==
The [[M1917 Enfield]] can occasionally be found as part of a U.S. Army Engineer Kit which can only be picked up as an "easter egg". This weapon substitutes demolitions for an ammunition box.
[[File:M1917enfield.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1917 Enfield - .30-06]]

==M1 Garand==
Unsurprisingly, the [[M1 Garand]] makes an appearance as the main service rifle of the U.S. Army Faction. It can be fitted with a bayonet and, on some maps, a rifle grenade launcher.
[[File:M1_Garand.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1 Garand semiautomatic Rifle with leather M1917 sling - .30-06]]

==M1 Carbine==
The [[M1_Carbine#M1.2FM1A1_Carbine|M1 Carbine]] is primarily used by the U.S. Army Faction Engineer Class. It is animated with the buttstock twin magazine pouch.
[[File:M1-Carbine.jpg|thumb|none|350px|World War II Era M1 Carbine, with Dark Walnut Stock, 'L' peep sight and no bayonet lug - .30 Carbine - correct for most of WWII, shown with khaki sling and oiler and a period twin magazine pouch for buttstock.]]

==M1A1 Carbine==
The [[M1_Carbine#M1.2FM1A1_Carbine|M1A1 Carbine]] appears in maps featuring the 101st Airborne Division.
[[File:M1A1Carbine.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1A1 Carbine with original L style rear sights, and side-folding stock, often referred to as the 'Paratrooper' carbine - .30 Carbine]]

==Pattern M1914==
The earliest model of the [[M1917 Enfield]], the Pattern M1914, fitted with a telescopic sight, is used as a sniper rifle by Commonwealth forces in maps set in Greece, Crete and North Africa.
[[File:Pattern1914scoped.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Pattern M1914 (P 14) Enfield sniper variant fitted with telescopic sight - .30-06]]

==Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III*==
The [[Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_(SMLE)#Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_rifle|Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III*]] is the main weapon of Commonwealth forces in Greece, Crete and North Africa. It can be fitted with a bayonet, and on some maps, a rifle grenade launcher. It is easily distinguished from the No.4 Mk.I* by it's stubbier shape, shorter muzzle and simplified, non-hooded iron sights.
[[File:SMLE.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III* - .303 British. This was the main battle rifle of British and Commonwealth forces during the First World War, introduced in 1907 it has seen action throughout the 20th century.]]

==Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I==
British and Canadian factions fighting in France use the [[Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_(SMLE)#Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_rifle|Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I]]. It can be fitted with a bayonet, and on some maps, a rifle grenade launcher. In contrast to the No.1 Mk.III*, it has an elongated sights and hooded, more accurate iron sights.
[[File:LeeEnfield4Rifle.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I - .303 British. This was the main battle rifle of British and Commonwealth forces during World War Two, however, it was supplemented heavily with the older Lee Enfield No.1 MK.III. First placed in service with the British military in 1941.]]

==Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I(T)==
The [[Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_(SMLE)#Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_rifle|Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I(T)]] is used as a sniper rifle by British and Canadian forces in France.
[[File:Smle4mk1t.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.I(T) with magazine and scope - .303 British]]

==Karabiner 98k==
The [[Karabiner 98k]] is the main weapon of the German Army faction in-game. It can be fitted with a bayonet, and on some maps, a rifle grenade launcher. An interesting difference in models from maps set in North Africa and post D-Day Europe is the iron sights - the former maps feature "curved" iron sights, whilst the latter have hooded sights, making them more accurate. Two more models, respectively fitted with a 1.5x Zeiss ZF41 scope and a Zeiss ZF42 telescopic sight can be picked up as "easter eggs".
[[File:Karabiner-98K.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Karabiner 98k - German manufacture 1937 date - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[File:98kZF4.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Karabiner 98k with Zeiss ZF41 1.5x scope and hooded front sight - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[File:Tur3.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Karabiner 98k with Zeiss ZF42 scope and hooded front sight - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==Gewehr 43==
The [[Gewehr 43]] makes an appearance in maps set post D-Day. One model with a ZF4 scope can be picked up as an "easter egg".
[[File:K43_nc.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Gewehr 43 - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]
[[File:Gew 43.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Gewehr 43 with ZF 4 scope - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==FG 42==
The [[FG 42]] is used by the German Fallschirmjäger in the ''Purple Heart Lane'' map. One model is fitted with a ZF4 scope.
[[File:FG421stPattern.jpg|thumb|none|350px|FG 42 with iron sights flipped up (no scope mounted), 1st pattern (metal buttstock and sharly-angled pistol grip) - 7.92x57mm Mauser‎]]
[[File:Firearm FG42.jpg|thumb|none|350px|FG 42 1st pattern with ZF4 scope - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==Sturmgewehr 44==
The [[Sturmgewehr 44]] can be used by the German faction in maps set in post D-Day Belgium. One model is fitted with a ZF4 scope.
[[File:Sturmgewehr 44.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sturmgewehr 44 - 7.92x33mm]]
[[File:StG-44 + ZF4.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Sturmgewehr 44 with ZF4 scope - 7.92x33mm]]

==Carcano M91==
The [[Carcano_Rifle_Series#Carcano_M91_Rifle|Carcano M91]] is the main rifle for the Italian faction. It can be fitted with a bayonet.
[[File:Carcano91.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Carcano M91 Short Rifle for Cavalry- 6.5mm]]

==Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle==
The [[Carcano_Rifle_Series#Carcano_M91.2F38_Short_Rifle|Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle]] is also issued to the Italian faction. Like the Carcano 91, it can be fitted with a bayonet.
[[File:CarcanoM91-38ShortRifle.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle for infantry, engineers and artillery troops- 6.5mm]]

=Shotguns=
==M30 Luftwaffe Drilling==
The [[M30 Luftwaffe Drilling]] can be found in-game as an "easter egg". It fires two 12 Gauge shotgun rounds and a single 9.3x74mmR rifle round.
[[File:M30LuftwaffenDrilling.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M30 Luftwaffe Drilling - 12 Gauge, 9.3x74mmR]]

==Winchester Model 1912==
The [[Winchester Model 1912]] "Trench Gun" can be picked up and used by the US faction as an "easter egg".
[[File:WinchesterM12Trench.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Winchester Model 1912 "Trench Gun" with heat shield and bayonet lug - 12 Gauge]]

=Machine Guns=
==M1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle==
The [[Browning Automatic Rifle|M1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle]] is the main weapon for the U.S. Faction Support Class. It can be fired from the hip, but a deployable bipod can also be used for more stabilized firing and accuracy. The player has to be prone to use the bipod. Amusingly, in the map ''Ramelle-Neuville'', a reference to the climatic battle of [[Saving Private Ryan]], the B.A.R used by PFC Reiben ([[Edward Burns]]) in the film has been modeled for the game, with the bipod removed and the ability to fire at both the default 450 rpm and the increased 600 rpm used by Reiben in the film.
[[File:BAR.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle - .30-06]]

==Browning M1919A6==
The [[Browning M1919A6]] is used by the 101st Airborne Faction in Belgium. It has to be deployed to fire. It can also be found in stationary machine gun nests.
[[File:M1919a6.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning M1919A6 Machine Gun, "Paratrooper Model - .30-06". With wooden stock and bipod. An attempt to make an infantry portable "light" machine gun of the standard 1919.]]

==Bren Mk1==
The [[Bren gun|Bren Mk1]] is the main weapon for the Commonwealth support gunner class. It can be deployed on a bipod for more stable fire and accuracy, and fired at single or full automatic. It can also be used in a tripod anti-aircraft stand, and is mounted on the Daimler Dingo Mk 1 and the Universal Carrier.
[[File:Bren_gun.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Bren Mk1 - .303 British]]

==Lewis Gun==
A portable version of the [[Lewis Gun]], which has to be deployed in the prone position to be fired, is used by the support class of a New Zealand LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) in North Africa. It is also mounted in machine gun nests and on Chevy 30WCT jeeps alongside the [[Vickers|Vickers Mk1]], and LCA (Landing Craft, Assault) transports.
[[File:Lewis gun.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Lewis Gun - .303 British]]

==ZB26 Machine Gun==
The [[ZB26 Machine Gun]] is carried by German soldiers on ''Pointe-du-Hoc''. This is historically accurate, as the Wehrmacht was so impressed by the Czech machine gun they adopted it under the designation of MG26(t). It fires in either semi or full-automatic and can be deployed on a bipod.
[[File:ZB-26.jpg|thumb|none|350px|ZB26 Light Machine Gun - 7.92x57mm]]

==MG34==
The [[MG34]] is carried by German Machine Gunners in the North African, Greece and Crete maps. Afterwards, it can be used mounted on the Lafette tripod with a 1.5x optical sight and in machine gun nests. The MG34 is mounted on the front and back of the SdKfz 251/1 Ausf. C "Hanomag" haltrack and coaxially on the SdKfz 222 armored car. The MG34 is also pintle-mounted on the SdKfz 231 armored cars and the Panzer II, III and IV, Panther and Tiger tanks and the Jagdpanzer 38 assault gun, and on the turret of the StuG 40, StuG IV and Jagdpanzer 38(t) assault guns.
[[File:Mg-34man-portable.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MG34 with 50 round "assault drum" - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==MG42==
The [[MG42]] is used by German soldiers in France and Belgium. It has to be deployed to fire. It can be seen mounted in machine gun nests, on the Lafette tripod with a 1.5x optical sight, and on the turret of the SdKfz 251/1 Ausf. D "Hanomag" halftrack and the Panther tank.
[[File:MG42.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MG42 Machine Gun - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==Breda Modello 30==
The [[Breda Modello 30]] is carried by Italian Machine Gunners. It has to be deployed to fire, and can operate in semi or full automatic.
[[File:800px-Breda 30.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Breda Modello 30 - 6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano]]

=Emplaced Weapons=
==Browning M1919A4==
The [[Browning_M1919#Browning_M1919A4|Browning M1919A4]] can be picked up from US bases and depots as an "easter egg". It is deployed by throwing down the portable tripod, which sets up the gun in prone position on an M2 tripod. The M1919A4 is also mounted the turret of the M3 Stuart II and M5A1 Stuart light tanks, and pintle-mounted in the the hull of the Stuart "Recce" and the M8 Greyhound Armored Car, and coaxially on the M24 Chafee, the M3 Grant Mk 1, the M4A1/M4A3 Sherman and the M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo, as well as the British Sherman II, Sherman V and Sherman VC "Firefly".
[[File:M1919A4Browning.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning M1919A4 on M2 tripod - .30-06]]

==Browning M2HB==
The [[Browning_M2#Browning_M2_Heavy_Barrel|Browning M2HB]] is turret-mounted on the Willys MB Jeep, Stuart "Recce", M3A1 and M5A1 Halftrack, M8 Greyhound, M4A3 Sherman and the Archilles IIC, M10, M18 Hellcat and M36 Jackson tank destroyers. The M51 Quad Mounted System is also mounted at US bases and on the M16 MGMC (a Halftrack fitted with the M51).
[[File:BrowningM2.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning M2HB on vehicle mount - .50 BMG]]
[[File:M51_Quad.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Browning M2HB's in M51 Quad Mounted System - .50 BMG]]

==Besa Machine Gun==
The [[ZB-53_/_Vz.37|Besa Machine Gun]] is pintle-mounted on the Cruiser Mk IVA, Matilda Mk II, Valentine Mk II, Churchill Mk IV, Crusader Mk I and III and Cromwell IV tanks.
[[File:BESA.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Besa tank machine gun - 7.92×57mm Mauser]]

==Vickers Mk1==
The [[Vickers|Vickers Mk1]] is used by Commonwealth forces in-game. It can be picked up and deployed into a stationary weapon via tripod, found mounted in machine gun nests or on Chevy 30WCT jeeps and the Universal Carrier.
[[File:VickersMk1.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Vickers Mk1 Machine Gun - .303 British]]

==Vickers .50 Machine Gun==
The [[Vickers#Vickers_.50_machine_gun|Vickers .50 Machine Gun]] is mounted on the Vickers Light Tank Mk VI B.
[[File:Vickers50.JPG|thumb|none|350px|Vickers .50 machine gun - Essentially the Mk1 but chambered in .50 caliber. Mounted on Armored Vehicles and used as Navy AA until supplemented by the Besa and Oerlikon 20mm Cannon - 12.7x81mm]]

==Vickers K==
The [[Vickers K]] can be seen dual-mounted on Willys MB jeeps used by the LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) in North Africa.
[[File:Vickersk.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Vickers K - .303 British]]

==MG15==
The [[MG15 machine gun|MG15]], fitted with a 50-round drum magazine, is mounted in German bunkers as a light antiaircraft weapon, and on the tailgunner seat on the Junkers Ju-87 "Stuka".
[[File:MG15.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MG15 machine gun with 50-round drum - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==MG17==
The [[MG17 machine gun|MG17]] is mounted on the Messerschmitt BF 109 fighter planes and the Junkers Ju-87 "Stuka".
[[File:MG 17.jpg|thumb|none|350px|MG17 machine gun - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==ZB-53==
The [[ZB-53 / Vz.37|ZB-53]] is mounted on the Marder III tank destroyer under the designation of MG37(t).
[[File:ZB-53.jpg|thumb|none|350px|ZB-53 machine gun on tripod - 7.92x57mm Mauser]]

==Breda Modello 37==
The [[Breda_Modello_30#Breda_Modello_37|Breda Modello 37]] can be seen tripod mounted in-game. It is also bipod-mounted in Italian machine gun nests, and on the Camionetta 42 "Sahariana" scoutcar.
[[File:Bredam37.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Breda Modello 37 - 8x59mm RB Breda]]

==Breda Modello 38==
The [[Breda_Modello_30#Breda_Modello_38|Breda Modello 38]] is mounted coaxially on the Carro Armato L6/40 light tank and Fiat M11/39 and Carro Armato M13/40 medium tanks used by the Italian faction.
[[File:Breda38.jpg|thumb|none|350px|Breda 38 tank mounted machine gun - 8x59mm RB Breda]]

[[Category:Battlefield]]
[[Category:First-Person Shooter]]
[[Category:Video Game]]
[[Category:War]]

Talk:Sa vz. 58

2012-11-15T03:20:48Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Compact variant looks rather cartoonish */ new section

==Aditional Variants==

[[File:Savz58 tactical.jpg|thumb|none|500px|SA Vz. 58 Tactical with railed handguards and a M4-style buttstock - 7.62x39mm ]]
[[Image:Normal sa58 003.JPG|thumb|none|500px|'''Sa. Vz. 58 Defender''' - Shorter barrel, few little differences]]
[[Image:Vz58PI.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Sa. Vz. 58 Pi''' - Flash hider, bipod and Nightvision]]
[[Image:CZ858access.gif|thumb|none|500px|'''Cz-858''' or '''Cz-858 Tactical''' - Civilian sporting version, mainly for export into US]]
[[Image:Sa58refl.jpg|thumb|none|500px|'''Sa. Vz. 58 in 601SKSS modification''' - Sa. Vz. 58V in Czech special forces modification]]

==Not like the StG. 44==

The article claims that the Vz's internals are close to the StG. 44, but there are significant differences:

StG - Long-stroke gas piston 
Vz - Short-stroke gas piston 
StG - Hammer fired 
Vz - Striker fired 
StG - Non-reciprocating charging handle 
Vz - Reciprocating charging handle 
StG - Tilting bolt (the entire bolt assembly) 
Vz - Linearly-moving bolt with separate tilting breechblock 
[[Special:Contributions/71.193.180.188|71.193.180.188]] 04:03, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

== Name of this gun? ==

What is the proper name for this gun? Wikipedia calls it the "SA vz. 58", the manufacturer "SA vz.58" the page name is "SA Vz.58" and the sections are "Sa. Vz. 58V". Which one is correct? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:17, 9 November 2012 (EST)I am from the Czech Republic and so you can explain it: There are 2 variants of SA Vz. 58. The designation "V" means paratrooper (czech: "'''v'''ýsadkár") , the designation P denotes infantry (czech: "'''p'''echota").--[[User:Pandolfini|Pandolfini]] ([[User talk:Pandolfini|talk]]) 07:56, 10 November 2012 (EST)

== Compact variant looks rather cartoonish ==

Does the compact version of this gun look cartoonish to anyone else? I mean, I know it's just because it's extremely compact, but to me, it just looks like a cartoonishly-proportioned rifle, like it's supposed to be full-sized, but the magazine is disproportionately large. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 22:20, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Medal of Honor: Warfighter

2012-11-07T05:35:29Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Glock 23 */

Talk:Galil

2012-11-01T14:23:02Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Galil in AKU-94 kit? */

==Is this gun any good?==
I am considering buying a Galil after I get an FAL and would like to know the pro's and con's before buying-[[User:S&Wshooter|S&Wshooter]] 03:09, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
:You got some deep pockets don't you. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 19:54, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Buy a galil? From what ive heard there is usually cheap crappy parts kits and never actucal Galils.

I used an R-4 for awhile; seemed odd having a weapon in 5.56mm built like, but weighing more than an AKM firing the smaller rounds. That explained why all the photos I've seen of Isrealis using M-16 variants[[User:Foofbun|Foofbun]] 06:03, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:I read it was a combination of the weight issue and the fact that we gave them a sweetheart deal on M16s. --[[User:Funkychinaman|funkychinaman]] 16:12, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Magazine well groove ==

Does anyone know what variants of the Galil have the indent/groove above the magazine like the milled AK-47s? I assumed it was on ARMs and had something to do with the receiver being strengthened, but just noticed that the polymer handguard ARM doesn't have it. Do newer versions not have the groove? Are the ungrooved versions based on sporter rifles like converted WASRs? Why do all South African guns have the groove while the Israeli ones seem not to any more? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:30, 31 January 2012 (CST)

== Galil in AKU-94 kit? ==

Would it be possible to convert a Galil ARM or AR into an AKU-94? I can't see any reason why, but since I'm asking, I know there probably is. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 00:41, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
:It may be possible but would be very difficult. The main problem I see is that the front trunion of the Galil is a different shape to on a regular AK due to the fact that the front of the receiver is narrower. The main way that the trigger group part of the AKU-94 kit attaches to the donor rifle is with a tab at the bottom which goes into the bottom slot of the front trunion, and in the case of a Galil this tab would be hanging in the air. Also as the rear sight would have to be removed else they would jam into your cheek, and as there is no front trunion mounted sight base on the Galil there would be nowhere to put the AKU-94 rear sight. Also as the Galil front sight is mounted on the gas tube this would get in the way of the handguard part which normally shrouds the AK gas tube, and even if it fitted in there you would have no place to mount the extended AKU-94 sight post. It is probably possible to do, but you would probably have to first convert the Galil to more of an AK (like they do to R4s in South African filmed productions) first and jury rig a few parts. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 05:54, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
::Hm. Thanks for the info. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 10:23, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Galil

2012-11-01T04:41:46Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Galil in AKU-94 kit? */ new section

Talk:Battlefield 3

2012-10-30T23:50:13Z

Jeddostotle7: /* EA/DICE "Silently" Removing DLC weapons */

See [[Talk:Battlefield 3/Archive 1]] for older discussions.

__TOC__

== Why am I not surprised? ==

Part of me isn't too surprised that the CODMW3 article would be taken off the Work in Progress Status in a much shorter time than BF3's page. Personally I think MW3 committed a war crime with how atrocious the M16A4 looks both in the first person and 3rd person models of it. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:00, 16 November 2011

:Just the M16? :/ Hell, the P99 is the only pistol where they didn't get something wrong. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:14, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:It has more to do with the fact that MW3 makes more mistakes and therefore is far more fun to write about. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:18, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::My personal favourite screw up in MW3 has to be the Skorpion's scope rail mount, with the "MG36" as a close runner up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:02, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::I still mad about the fact they suddenly decided that it'll better that the M4A1 will have a 20-round magazine rather than a 30-round magazine -_- --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 03:05, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:::Lol good points all around. I'm not too knowledgeable on everything but I'm in the service and I use the M16A4 often. So it stuck out like a sore thumb the moment I picked up the rifle in the game that something was really freaking off about it. Like it wasn't already bad having 30 rounds come out of a 20 round mag. But bolt on rails to A2 Handguards? Really?! XDDD I don't know how accurate that P99 is, but it irks the hell out of me seeing it held one handed in the First Person Model. [[User:DarkSamuraiX1999|DarkSamuraiX1999]] 00:25 16 November 2011

Ya know? It's funny that the "fact" they are using military advisers to make the game better in "tactics" and stuff (yeah, right), this military advisers or what ever, aren't aware of the way the developers model the weapons and doesn't 100% reassemble to the real life one's :/ I guess the developers tell them "We don't really give a damn about realism, just tell us how the hell modern warfare works"... Still, the guys of BF3 made a bit better, though it does have also many things unrealistic, like the fact Marines are using M16A3's instead of M16A4's, and some of them running with an M240 like it a was wooden gun. Sigh. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 02:57, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:The thing about an advisor is that his job is to answer questions. It's up to the developers if they a) ask him the right questions and b) pay attention to his answers. I believe ''Star Trek's'' science advisors have publically complained that they're only asked for advice on what terminology to use and never on whether something is actually good science. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 03:15, 16 November 2011 (CST)

One thing SP Campaign of BF3 proves is that BF3 shouldn't have SP Campaign in the first place. One would expect it to be more authentic, yet it takes approach of CoD: "We just put randomly weapons we have in MP whether or not they fit in". So suddenly we have Marines with M16A3s and M240Bs (instead of M16A4s and M240Gs), insurgents (exactly insurgents and not organized militia from pre-alpha trailers) with AK-74Ms and AEK-971s (instead of AK-47s / AKMs), Spetsnaz member Vladimir with 5.56 A-91 (despite Russian forces simply not using this caliber even for SF), etc. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:27, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:Let's not forget that the protagonist of the game, Blackburn, during the interrogations scenes, you can see his name and branch tags that they're in white and straight rather than MARPAT and in an angle with the chest pockets. Also, one of the the guys in Blackburn's team, though I can't remember his exact name (the guy who carries M136 all the time), wears MultiCam OCP, still, rather than MARPAT uniform. Eventually, war games wouldn't be realistic as real life, even in the small parts. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 11:22, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::This M136 guy, Matkovic, is Navy EOD attached to Blackburn's Force Recon unit, which is why he isn't present in all of the missions. Despite the fact that EOD doesn't work this closely with other units, that is the reasoning for his alternate appearance - [[User:Tangero2325|Tangero2325]] 9:55, 18 June 2012 (CST)

::Except my games (If I ever make games). :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 11:34, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Plus, they (Marines) get CAS from Little Birds. Apparently, to the game devs the terms 'US Army' and 'USMC' are interchangeable. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:50, 16 November 2011 (CST)

:I don't recall the insurgents using AEK-971s in the Iran missions, usually it was a random stew of your typical AKS-74u, AK-74M (don't real militants from the former Soviet bloc use the more modern 5.45 AK-74 at times?), RPKs, and the KH2002. However, the terrorists with Solomon from later on in the story do use all this, and even more somewhat outlandish equipment. Also, since the page is incomplete, can you explain to me how you identify the Marine's M16 models as the A3 versions? During the campaign I recall Blackburn's M16 as being able to fire in fully automatic. (Except that one mission where you inexplicably jump off with an HK416) Also, didn't Vladimir use the AS VAL throughout the Spetsnaz missions? And although it's not top-notch realistic Ala ''The Hurt Locker'', I wouldn't exactly outright call it the CoD approach. I mean, just look at what they did with Black Ops. Pointing out every inaccuracy in that game is to the point of turning it into a drinking game. Long Fallen 17:49, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Other than that one HK416 Blackburn had, which was odd, if they worst things the Marines had were M16A3s instead of A4s and M240Bs instead of M240Gs, then I'm happy enough. And the PLR only had 74Ms, 74Us, and RPKs if I remember correctly, the later enemies had AEKs. All the weird guns were given to Kaffarov's private army, as he is an arms dealer. It's like complaining you see a few M1928s instead of M1A1s in a WWII movie. Black Ops.. is Black Ops, and MW3 had FADs in the hands of African militia... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:20, 16 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe it is related to the "AKS-74U vs. UMP issue": in some of the videos of "Operation Swordbreaker", inside of the building, leading to anti-sniper position, one of the insurgents is certainly equipped with AEK-971, with others having AKS-74U and AK-74M (AK-74 would be correct for former Soviet bloc militant but not AK-74M unless he managed to scavenge it from Russian soldier). For M16A3, check one of the Marines on the way to bridge in the same mission. And while Kiril used the AS "Val", Vladimir used the 5.56 A-91. And yes, as Alex said, Black Ops... is Black Ops *sadface* --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:17, 17 November 2011 (CST)

:::You are right, that one insurgent always has an AEK, but that's an exception. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:31, 17 November 2011 (CST)

Cod always screws up the guns
:What does that have to do with Battlefield 3? [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:12, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Sidearms ==

Has anyone else noticed Campo carries ''two'' sidearms, one on his chest and one by his hip? Looks like two Glocks.

[[Image:BF3-Glock-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Ten more and he'll be a Glockenspiel.]]

[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:18, 18 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm sorry, but that caption was just too good. On topic however, it seems as if the handgun holstered on his chest seems pretty low res to be made out. Could it be a designer oversight or something? - Long Fallen 17:21, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Maybe they are copying Epps from [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], he nonsensically carries a pair of Glocks in the same way as well... --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:31, 18 November 2011 (CST)

::Well, that's the Assault kit's chest, with the Glock and all, so they most likely gave him a leg holster and forgot about that one. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:01, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::It's like in MW2 where the snipers carry unusable M1911. Although it is peculiar that the Marine in this game carries unusable Glock and not M9 or MEU(SOC). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:17, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== BTK Weapons ==

Finally! http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

:MG36 and Jackhammer? Guess the XM8 and plasma rifle will be in the next DLC. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:30, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:I guess that confirms that there will be no PLA Faction DLC *sadface* I still hope for EU Faction :|
:Also confirmed that HK53 is back intact :)
:--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Why do they choose to include the "HK" prefix in the HK53, but not on the M416? [[User:Santos|Santos]] 11:26, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:::I'll ask Demize why this HK is okay (and the HK21 in BF2). Actually, they hinted they might do more weapon DLCs later, so I'm expecting a "Back To Bad Company" pack with all three XM8s and other stuff. Also, not a plasma rifle, but I've always thought it'd be cool to see Halo guns in another game, the human ones. For those of you that don't know, they all make functional sense. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:48, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::::lol yeah all those functional Spartan Lasers we have lying around. Though it would be cool to see an NTW-20 in a videogame. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle Have] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle1 you] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle2 said] [http://www.moddb.com/mods/point-of-existence-2/images/ntw-20-anti-material-rifle3 NTW-20]? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:34, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== RPK ==

Incidentally, I need to check if the RPK-74 has a flash hider. If not, with wood furniture and a ribbed metal magazine, it's actually an RPK with a sight rail, not a -74 at all. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:10, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Maybe I didn't spend enough time using it, but I remember it having black furniture. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 12:44, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Checking my PS3 video captures it's very dark brown; more to the point, though, it's got that standard AK-style handguard with two holes through the middle (with a RIS foregrip sticking out the bottom, admittedly); the -M polymer handguard is a different shape and has ridges all along the top of the gas tube.

::[[Image:Soviet RPK-74.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK-74 light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[Image:rpk74m.jpg|thumb|none|601px|RPK-74M light machine gun with 45-round box magazine - 5.45x39mm]]
::[[File:BF3-RPK-1.jpg|thumb|none|601px|]]

::If it doesn't have a flash hider, I think that makes it an RPK. I thought I could see one there, but in my PS3 video it looks like it doesn't have one and the in-world and pickup models don't have one either. I was going to say "except the scope mount" but MPM's RPK image has one:

::[[Image:RPK lmg.jpg|thumb|none|600px|RPK Light Machine Gun with 40 round magazine - 7.62x39mm]]

::Is this normal? From what I'd read the scope bracket was an -M thing. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:35, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::Thanks for clearing up the RPK differences, as for the scope rail, scopes are nice to have sometimes, I'm sure some of the older RPKs were fitted with scope mounts as aftermarket parts in real life. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:06, 20 November 2011 (CST)
::::As the RPK in the game only has the bracket fitted when a sight is there, I would certainly put it in the "aftermarket" category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:37, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Oh right, just like the AKS-74U becomes an AKS-74UN when mounted with optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:47, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Just to assure you this ''does'' happen (it's so nice having a PS3 video of half the game to pull shots from):

:[[Image:BF3-RPKForegrip.jpg|thumb|none|600px]]

:RPK with inexplicable foregrip. I'd just forgotten they don't all have that. Also, is it just me or is the scope mounting screwed to the side of the dust cover rather than attached to a bracket? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

== Single Action Army ==

Just letting you guys know, as stated on its page it is called Single Action Army on this site as there are so many nearly identical replicas calling it the more correct Colt 1873 might actually be wrong, and SAA is used as a catch-all term. However, just as we assume a full-size Glock is a 17 unless we can tell otherwise, we also assume a gun in a game is not a clone, unless we can tell otherwise. Therefore, it is assumed that the drawing of the SAA is the original Colt 1873, and should be named as such. This is just to avoid an edit war, or something. :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:28, 19 November 2011 (CST)

== M224 ==

I don't know about Xbox, but on the PS3 the M224 definitely has an M7 baseplate in multiplayer. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 15:54, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Yup, it has one on 360. Lol at the baseplate having a designation :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:19, 19 November 2011 (CST)
:::Just about everything in the military has a designation. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 00:10, 10 March 2012 (CST)

::Feel free to change it, I was going off it not having one in single. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 17:31, 19 November 2011 (CST)

Heck, I've got a pair of ammo boxes, and THEY have designations (M19A1). - Wantabs_Warrior38

== Kaffarov's Private Army ==

While I understand that Kaffarov is an arms dealer, it boggles my mind how so many times in fiction there are people who are able to procure such military spec equipment like the F2000, Mk.17 (SCAR-H), AEK-971, and so many others. Surely the companies and or countries that produce them don't freely sell them to whatever buyers there are? My question is how would people like Kaffarov even be able to avoid the system and acquire such equipment? I don't know if it has been answered elsewhere, or for obvious reasons '''hasn't''', but it's just something that I haven't been able to explain logically. -- Long Fallen 18:03, 19 November 2011 (CST)

:Reminds me of [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Legionnaire Legionnaire] from [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company Battlefield: Bad Company]. And that guy paid his mercenaries in ''gold bars'', mind you. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Kaffarov... Makarov... Kaffarov... Makarov... Is it only me or does BF3 is trying to copy MW3 in many matters? :/ --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 23:29, 19 November 2011 (CST)

::Um, what's so suspicious about Russian (or Russified) surname ending in -ev or -ov? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 00:51, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I'm not sure either, but it lets us have the cool guns people don't really use, so it gets a pass in my books. Also, those two names aren't really that similar, and the characters are nothing alike. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:12, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:To answer the question, no. Any customer who could afford top-drawer equipment would be dealing directly with the company that made it, the kinds of people who go to dodgy arms dealers want weapons that are simple enough to equip illiterate militiamen with, cheap enough to equip a ''lot'' of them with, and have widely available spare parts and ammunition. It's no longer the era when unpaid former Soviet commanders would empty entire arms depots onto the black market and flee to countries that don't have extradition treaties with Russia, and no longer the era when you could get a superpower to pony up a whole bunch of equipment and training just by saying you were fighting for / against communism. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:46, 20 November 2011 (CST)

::I see, but I recall this story from a few years back -[http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/factory-tightens-security-after-gun-thefts-23226.html Stolen Five-seveNs from FNH factories] (I had no idea the P90 was a handgun xD) - And then there's this too -[http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081112_worrying_signs_border_raids Mexican drug cartels being armed with P90s and Five-seveNs] So I still want to know, what are the likely chances of seeing terrorists with such equipment? I mean, these articles seem to bring it to light. (Sorry if I'm going off topic) -- Long Fallen 00:42, 21 November 2011 (CST)

:::With Mexico it's a situation where a lot of the top-class armament is purchased in the United States and smuggled across the border; similar arrangements were used to smuggle arms to the IRA during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. That's the "buying directly from the supplier" kind of deal, and is usually done without a dealer acting as an intermediary (because the Cartels have enough money to do it themselves, or take the weapons in part payment for supplying product to drug dealers). Your typical Eastern Bloc / African arms dealer just buys up weapons somewhere a war is ending and ships them to where a war is still going on, because the buyers don't have the contacts, legitimacy or resources to do it by themselves. A lot of the guns these guys circulate have been involved in local conflicts for years or even decades.

:::Top-end hardware typically comes from governments and organisations. Insurgents in Iraq didn't get top-of-the-line anti-tank weapons and training in making IEDs from some guy in the business of moving weapons, they got them from sympathisers in places like Iran. Alarmism about what ''kind'' of weapons terrorists have is pretty foolish anyway, since generally they prefer the instant, indiscriminate destruction of explosives to trying to shoot people with a gun. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:58, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, I see, thanks for enlightening me :) -- Long Fallen 20:25, 21 November 2011 (CST)

Whoever said "a lot of the top-class armament...blah blah Mexico... smuggled from US..." is rather wrong. The Mexican cartels who have P90s and M16s and etc western weaponry are getting it from the Mexican military and police, only a small percentage of the guns near the US border are actually smuggled in to Mexico from the US. The numbers seem higher because recently Mexico has been sending in stores of arms they have confiscated over the past X amount of years (that they know can be most likely traced to the US) to get traced at the same time. This leads to a overblown number that looks good on anti-firearms pamphlets. If you think about it a bit, what do you think would be easier and cheaper:

1. Finding and paying someone to buy 10 semi-automatic guns in the US at ridiculous prices, risking him getting caught, losing your money, going through all the background checks, etc, then sneaking them over the border. Not to mention finding ammo.

Or

2a. Paying some guerrillas in some SA country x amount of dope to bring in a ship, container, truck, or plane full of 100s or 1000s of eastern bloc or former US military weaponry, that is most likely going to be fully automatic. Plus large quantities of ammo for said weaponry.

2b. Stealing or buying from a corrupt military/ police official brand new weaponry.

The "X% of guns in Mexico are from the US" myth is a fallacy created by the Mexican and US govts and heavily compounded by the ATF smuggling them themselves or letting them walk, and the FBI for not laying out the specifics of the stats. Then the subsequent (ratings improving) media hype compounds it further.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is greatly exaggerated.

Now as for how someone like Kaffarov would get the weaponry, its pretty simple. 1. Start a (possibly dummy) corporation (possibly in a different country). 2. Buy from a manufacturer saying they are intended for "security", or "testing", or hell, even arming your own "PMC". 3.Lock and load. How do you think PMCs such as Xe (Blackwater), AirScan, Aegis DS, etc.. get their new "HSLD" weaponry? Most international arms trafficking treaties do not extend to selling firearms to private entities in the same way they do governments.
Respectfully, the (somewhat intoxicated)-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 02:33, 22 November 2011 (CST)

:I wasn't saying it's the majority source, just the source of the more pricey / modern equipment. These people have supply networks that move ''tons'' of drugs across the border, they're not going to consider moving guns in the other direction a substantial risk; one would imagine their US buyers are probably the same people who buy their drugs, considering they're already going to be smuggling stuff back as payment and keeping their activities secret. Most of the weapons they get from the US aren't purchased legally (the big myth is they're bought legitimately from normal gun stores, SO WE MUST CLAMP DOWN ON THIS). Most of their stuff is indeed bought in from other sources, but weapons like the Barretts aren't going to be coming from just anywhere, and there ''is'' precedent from this happening in Northern Ireland where the IRA got a lot of their best weapons from Irish expatriates in America.

:As for Kaffarov, the main problem with the mythical top-end arms dealer is who he's supposed to sell these rare weapons on to, not how he'd get them himself. Sure, if it's ''just'' equipment for his private troops he might splash out, but he wouldn't be wholesaling in exotic arms with rare ammo and parts because nobody would buy them, plus he'd have problems with the companies he's buying from wondering why their weapons are suddenly turning up in conflict zones in the exact quantity they're selling them to his shell company. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 22 November 2011 (CST)

::I know who! He's obviously selling to the Russian Army, Brazilian and African militants, and Makarov's terrorists in MW2 and MW3! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:32, 23 November 2011 (CST)

: From what I remember in the BF3 novel Kaffarov was a former GRU agent handling weapons and training with then political ally Iran, who got too deep in the local agendas and was probably compromised. IN the novel his weapons were less new (Uzis and shit), but I could totally buy that Kaffarov was still connected enough to Russia's arms trade that he could probably weasel crates of AEK971s out of them without too much trouble. Supposedly that's how Solomon got the suitcase nukes in the first place anyway, off Kaffarov. (as a note the book's plot is little more coherent than the game, probably worth the pickup if you're trying to dissect the game's narrative.)--[[User:Toadie|Toadie]] 04:17, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:This entire discussion is clearly a case of thinking way harder about what Kaffarov is hypothetically capable of procuring for his men than DICE did while they were working on the game. As for the whole "Mexico Gun Smuggling Debate" - try reading some academic reports on the subject before claiming that the statistics were cooked up ([http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Chapter%206-%20U.S.%20Firearms%20Trafficking%20to%20Mexico,%20New%20Data%20and%20Insights%20Illuminate%20Key%20Trends%20and%20Challenges.pdf Wilson Centre: U.S Firearms Trafficking to Mexico] is a long read, but it does illuminate the various ways guns are smuggled and how they are interdicted) --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 16:41, 23 November 2011 (CST)

well look at the Libyan civil war were both sides were able to get massive amounts of G-36s --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 20:38, 23 November 2011 (CST)

Most of the weapons such as Barretts, M16s, etc.. are coming from the Mexican military. As for the IRA in the 80s I know all about that, that was a different time. Many things happened back then that could not happen now. Plus the IRA stopped getting guns from the US when they realized it was easier to get them from places like Palestine and etc..
With Libya... well HK is in deep right now for selling to some state police in Mexico that they shouldn't be selling to, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold to Libya and other places.
And Markit, the report you linked to actually states in a couple places that the reports are skewed by many factors.
This can state the facts better than I can: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/90PercentMyth.pdf
-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 00:57, 24 November 2011 (CST)
:There was also an incident during the Georgia-Russia war where Georgian SF were seen with G36s that they previously weren't known to have. HK weapons are turning up in all kinds of strange places. :S [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:28, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:@Ranger01 - There's no verifiable proof that all those high-end weapons are coming solely from Mexican law enforcement - last time I checked, they could get better weapons than the FN PS90s, Romanian WASR clones, MAK-90s, AR-15 clones with the post-ban features, SKS rifles with Tapco furniture etc. that have been turning up in seizures of cartel arsenals. I know that the 90% statistic was erroneous, but I also do not believe that the percentage is only 12% according to your report (extrapolating only from serial numbers is faulty in itself when criminals usually take measures to remove/modify them). Besides, the "most deadliest weapons come from Central America" does not equal "most of the weapons come from Central America", which seems to be the tack that your article is taking. Also erroneous is the claim that Mexican military personnel are defecting and taking "American-made" weapons with them - the "150,000" figure was for desertions (which take place for any number of reasons in a conscription-based system) and most soldiers are armed with Mexican-produced versions of H&K weapons.

::On an additional note, the G36s that were seen in Libya were likely a gray market sale - a firm buys the weapons with the end user certificate for one country, ships them there, then transfers them to the actual destination. A more controversial story would be that FN directly sold several hundred FN 2000s, FN 303s and P90s to Libya in 2009-2010. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::Politics aside, F2000s would be ''great'' for a desert country; they're almost airtight. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:22, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::Well Saudi Arabia did adopt the F2000 as their standard rifle. -- Long Fallen 21:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Hmm, didn't know that. As probably most of us are, I haven't had hands on on most of these, but am well read on them, and the F2000 would be one of my first choices of assault rifle if I had a country/army :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:51, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::::Now it's just a matter or wondering if they'll ever get around to using them... Sad is the day when hundreds of beautiful F2000s sit untouched in Arabian armories, gathering up dust. It's enough to bring a tear to any IMFDB user's eye xD -- Long Fallen 02:43, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::Researchers point to '''Heckler & Koch G3A3''' being replaced with '''Steyr AUG''' in Saudi Arabian Army[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_standard_infantry_rifle_for_saudi_arabian_army][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110305182603AA3EBn4] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 27 November 2011 (CST)

::::::::So the SA National Guard bought the 55,000 F2000s... but the AUG was on issue? Did it replace the AUG? The standard rifle is the G3A3 as of now? A lot of this information feels so outdated. -- Long Fallen 16:19, 27 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::::Saudi Arabian National Guard is separate from Saudi Arabian Army. An analogy would be 'Waffen-SS' (SANG) and 'Wehrmacht' (SAA)[http://www.dnipogo.org/fcs/comments/c424.htm] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:08, 28 November 2011 (CST)

== Blackburn from BHD ?? ==

Go see the Colt M4 section and the M4 series below it is said that Black burn holds M4 quite often. I would like to ask is this Blackburn any how related to Todd Blackburn from Black Hawk Down, the Ranger who fell from the Black Hawk chopper? - S9771773G 09:47, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

:I imagine it's just a coincidence, Blackburn is a "heroic" surname like Carver or Slater or whatever. I'd have thought if they were referencing Black Hawk Down they'd have named him after someone like Shughart or Gordon, really. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:08, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Doubt it. 'Battlefield 3' is unrelated to 'Black Hawk Down', plus, Todd Blackburn is Army Ranger while Henry Blackburn is Marine Recon. Proper analogy would be Patterson's from 'Medal of Honor' series. Both are in Army and [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/Jim_Patterson one] is actually the grandson of [http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Steven_Patterson another]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:19, 20 November 2011 (CST)
:'''P.S.''' Although, this would explain the appearance of Little Birds...

::There's also the fact that Todd Blackburn is a real person while Henry Blackburn is a fictional one. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:14, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:::True, there is even a page on [http://www.aweekendofheroes.com/vips/todd-blackburn.php Todd Blackburn]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:27, 21 November 2011 (CST)

::::From the link posted by Masterius: "In reality, it is not known why Blackburn lost his grip on the rope and is generally assumed that his inexperience led to his fall ('''However, Master Sergeant Matt Eversmann states that around the time when Blackburn fell, the UH60 canted slightly, and had to put his hand down to stay upright'''. The ranger that roped in after Blackburn also swears that he had grabbed the rope.) Additionally, the film incorrectly portrays Blackburn as a new arrival to Somalia, when in reality he had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company."
::::Um... why would Matt Eversmann have any trouble staying upright in said canting helicopter ''when he was in a Humvee on the ground''? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:22, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::[http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp Because he was, in fact, in a Blackhawk?] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 15:00, 25 November 2011 (CST)
:::::'''P.S.''' ^ Oh, the age there is said to be 18, and "just months out of a Florida high school", instead of 20, and "had been in country for the same amount of time as the rest of his Company". So which of the descriptions is the correct one?

::::::They'd said on the DVD commentary as well as in the History Channel documentary about the raid that Eversmann was with the convoy the whole time. Guess they didn't have their facts straight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:16, 26 November 2011 (CST)

:::::::He was the leader of Chalk Four as shown in the film and was inserted by Black Hawk, callsign Super 67. He didn't go to the crash site as shown in the film though, instead he was part of "The Lost Convoy" carrying the captured prisoners, think that is what you are thinking of. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:36, 26 November 2011 (CST)

::::An interesting thing I found about Todd Blackburn was that he was born on October 25, the same date that BF3 was released, maybe that date was selected on purpose by DICE? [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 19:34, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Now this is intriguing... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:01, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I can tell you without any doubts that BF3 has several [[Generation Kill]] references. For example:

- The main protagonist is part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion.

- When driving towards Tehran in the humvees and complaining that they signed up for an ambush, the driver says "Frankly gentleman, I'm not hearing the aggression I'd like. Keep scanning". Which is a reference to the 5th episode "A Burning Dog" when the team leaders are preparing to clear out an ambush by a bridge.

- When Henry Blackburn and Co. drives in a convoy to capture Kaffarov the arms dealers. Matkovic, the guy wearing MultiCam OCP and the AT4, was sleeping on the convoy and when woken up he says "thirty four minutes... I've been asleep for thirty four minutes drinking a vanilla milkshake." Also a reference from the 5th episode A Burning Dog, when Ray Person wakes Brad Colbert to a team leader meeting, Brad responds "fifty six minutes. I've been asleep for fifty six minutes".

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:00, 20 November 2011 (CST)

:Not to mention the character named Chaffin. There's more, I'll have to play it again to find them all.-protoAuthor 23:16, 24 November 2011 (CST)

== M203 Dog tag ==

I was watching my new unlocked dog tags on Battlelog, and saw that the 40mm GL proficiency Dog tag has an M203 in the background.
Should it be added to the list of weapons appearing in the game?

http://battlelog-cdn.battlefield.com/public/profile/bf3/stats/dogtags/lb/dtb094.png?v=1628729

[[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yes it should, like the SAA. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:29, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, though I would prefer these as full screenshots if possible (ie someone unlocking / viewing them), I never like pages full of different aspect ratios and weird tiny images. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:Well since we're mentioning weapons appearing on dog tags but not the actual game for usage, the USAS-12 proficiency dog tag has a SPAS-12 silhouette for some reason. It was probably directly ported from Bad Company 2 given how it looks. -- Long Fallen 17:59, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::Quite a number are, the SCAR-H is a SCAR-L. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:37, 23 November 2011 (CST)

::It actually peeves me that many of the assault rifle proficiency dog tags use the icons for the Bad Company 2 models, like most of the assault rifles equipped with grenade launchers. Especially the F2000 one, which isn't even possible to have an underslung grenade launcher, let alone the EGLM pictured on it. :P -- Long Fallen 21:05, 23 November 2011 (CST)

:::You'd be wrong about the F2000 not being able to take a grenade launcher.

:::[[Image:Fn f2000 3.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|FN F2000 - 5.56x45mm NATO with [[FN EGLM|FN GL1]] - 40mm]]

:::[[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:38, 24 November 2011 (CST)

::::Ah, sorry, I should've made it clear that while the dog tag shows off the EGLM, you can't mount any kind of grenade launcher to the F2000 itself to use. -- Long Fallen 00:42, 25 November 2011 (CST)

:::::You mean ''in the game''. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:05, 26 November 2011 (CST)

== Going Rambo ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMcM7OpC2dI&hd=1

Just how realistic is it? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:02, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:I think they should implement an overheating system for all the light machineguns. Just like in Battlefield 2. [[User:Santos|Santos]] 06:33, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Barrel changes would be more interesting, I think. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:32, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::And then there will be people complaining that Battlefield is becoming simulator. Rather odd, since magazine system and overheating system were part of the core Battlefield games since the beginning... Sigh, Bad Company... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 05:52, 1 December 2011 (CST)

More funny stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxsbTjPe2fs&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 16:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

More ordinary stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUpUFwV8fM8&hd=1 --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== Back to Karkand ==

There's an expansion pack coming out in December, and it's going to have ten new guns and four new vehicles.

Here's a list of the weapons that I can absolutely confirm from seeing in the kill-feed in the trailers:

MG36 with a top rail instead of the carrying handle/optics

L85A2

QBZ-95B

QBU-88

FAMAS (Looks to be the Felin version)

There also looks to be some sort of Kalashnikov style weapon, but it's not shown clearly enough for me to recognize.

Here are the trailers if you feel like playing Where's Waldo:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TyN_Zjw4l-s Overall Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTmieRMKjo Karkand Trailer]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGXp-qRrVg Oman Trailer]

Also of note, I have the PC version and just about all the weapons unlocked. I might upload screenshots if I get the chance.
--[[User:AchingScaphoid|AchingScaphoid]] 08:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:Unless they've got the screenshot feature working now, you'll need FRAPS to get screenshots. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:20, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:There are 2 AK variants in the first trailer you posted, I think the first is an [[AKM]], second is the same [[AKS-74U]] with the incorrect milled receiver as seen in the main game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:37, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:The L85 is in the first trailer, although very briefly. 0.37, there's an L85. Old plastic handguard, RIS instead of the 19mm rail. No idea on the optic, other than it not being a SUSAT. --[[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

::I think it might be an Elcan of some sort but not sure. The newest modification to the L85A2 replaces the old rail with a MIL-STD-1913 rail and is fitted with an Elcan Spectre with a piggybacked CCO. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:08, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:::I've also seen real L85s with ACOGs, so using that could be authentic for optics. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:13, 29 November 2011 (CST)

::::An ACOG on a MIL-STD-1913 would be incorrect though. British ACOGs have a proprietary mount for the original 19mm rail. Any gun that is fitted with the new rail will be using the ELCAN. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:::::Indeed:
:::::[http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/BEMIL069/upload/2008/02/2_acog.jpg L85A2 with ACOG on mount]
:::::[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/TarnishUK/SpecterOS4x.jpg L85A2 with Specter on rail]
:::::--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:41, 1 December 2011 (CST)

I added them to the page, feel free to expand them. This picture was on the Blog a few weeks back, it shows all 10 weapons:

http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/battlefield_5F00_bad_5F00_company/Back_2D00_to_2D00_Karkand_2D00_Assignments.jpg

[[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:12, 29 November 2011 (CST)

:List of all weapons and attachments in BtK expansion:

:http://mp1st.com/2011/11/30/the-complete-list-of-bf3-back-to-karkand-weapons-and-attachments-revealed/

:--[[User:Wikinerd|Wikinerd]] 09:04, 30 November 2011 (CST)

::Really, the best they could manage was photos of someone's TV? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 10:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)

:I'm not too sure what to think of the Pancor Jackhammer being in this game, I mean, we've already got the USAS-12 as the automatic shotgun, if they wanted to add in another one, they could've just added in the AA-12. Anyone kinda with me on this? - Long Fallen 14:20, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Not a fan of automatic shotguns anyway, since they, technically, overshadow the semi-automatic ones (because of selective fire). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)

:::The USAS-12 has competition with the Jackhammer, I haven't unlocked it yet but I remember picking up a kit with the Jackhammer and it was like using a slightly lower capacity DAO-12 with it's 6+1 rounds but with automatic fire rate. This video shows some gameplay, extended mags give it 13+1 magazine capacity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95ICdl9fsE&feature=related It's apparently "slower than the USAS" from what little experience I've had with it and from people I've asked about it [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)

== MG36 ==
I know that there were only 100 or so MG36s made, but isn't a standard G36 with a bipod foregrip and a double drum mag exactly the same thing? I get that if there's one in a movie it will actually be a G36 with bipod and drum added, but in a game can't it be called an MG36 since it didn't start as something else? Also, it IS an MG, not an AR, unless the RPK, M27, and QBB-95 are ARs too. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:21, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:An MG36 has a bipod handguard, C-mag, ''and'' a heavy barrel and reinforced action. This, like basically every other MG36 that has appeared in anything, is based on a standard G36 with a bipod and drum, as the Bundrswehr use. I don't think there's even a specific name for the configuration, but it is ''not'' called MG36. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:35, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::Oh okay, but would the heavy barrel look any different externally? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:11, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::I believe it's mostly internal. However, IIRC the MG36 was rejected the same year the MIL-STD-1913 standard was drawn up, so an "MG36" with a flat-top rail would have to be a G36 or an after the fact modification of an MG36, and speculating a gun that isn't real ''must'' be modified is trying a little too hard to cover up a simple naming error. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 20:15, 30 November 2011 (CST)
::::Oh okay, well, if it had the standard carry handle I'd say it should be "MG36", but seeing as it has the "C" one, it's a G36 with a bipod, C-Mag, and G36C rail. To be fair though, MG36 is a ''lot'' easier for the sake of the game. On DICE's part I mean. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:10, 30 November 2011 (CST)
:::::Alex - According to G3Kurz on HKpro, the barrel OD is 30% thicker. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-long-gun-talk/94949-wtk-mg36-barrel-question.html Evil Tim - Where did you hear that it had reinforced action? --[[User:Shadowkungfu|Shadowkungfu]] 22:44, 30 November 2011 (CST)

== "Kaffarov" ==

So, is this mission always buggy as hell, or did I just have a bad run screencapping it? As well as that weirdness with the Barrett I had guns inheriting the texture of the floor they were on top of (I have a lovely image of a linoleum QJY-88), some pictures of MP7s with their magazine against their front grip and their stock hovering in front of them at ninety degrees to the gun and every single USAS-12 in the level appearing on the ground with no magazine. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:42, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:That always seems to happen with USASs and MP7s, but please, please add the linoleum QJY-88 to the main page, just for laughs :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 04:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

::Also, I really didn't get the last level. Why would you hijack a train that was already going to where you want to go (thus drawing attention to yourself for no good reason), then randomly rig it to explode even though you've already got a nuke on board? And why was one man with a detonator standing in the same room as the explosives that detonator set off? And how did Blackburn know that trigger would set off the random bombs and not the nuke? I have questions, dammit. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:54, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::You're not an operator, you wouldn't understand. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:21, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:::This is my explanation and I know there's several holes in it but bear with me, it makes slightly more sense than just a lack of general explanation. The hijacking of the train was probably a distraction whereby once they got off their intended stop with the nuke, they would send it hurtling somewhere else for the police and other emergency services to follow. This would have then given them an opportunity to get the nuke to Times Square undetected while the emergency services scrambled to stop the train wired with explosives. In terms of the detonator, the guy was probably the patsy to serve as a suicide bomber-type to ensure the distraction seemed like the real deal and to lay blame once again on the PLR rather than Solomon. Blackburn knew that the trigger wouldn't set off the nuke because nukes require specialised arming devices if I'm not mistaken and you can't use a normal detonator to blow it up. Just my explanation of the events. Feel free to lay waste to my over-active imagination that came up with this somewhat cockamamie fill-in to explain the plotholes in the last mission. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:25, 7 December 2011 (CST)
::::The thing is the train was already ''going'' to Times Square, and detonating a nuke underground would create a sinkhole a large chunk of lower Manhattan would fall into; if anything it would be even worse than detonating it on the surface. Solomon could have just sat there alone with the thing in his lap on a timer or dead man's switch, the only purpose the hijacking ultimately served was to draw attention to the fact that something was up.

::::Then again, this story also had my very favourite, the framing device of the protagonist describing the action. I always smile when I imagine how it's going during the actual level. "So then I ducked into cover. Looked up but didn't shoot. Reloaded. Aimed down my sights. Saw a guy ducking out so I fire twice and reloaded and then..." "Weren't we supposed to be on a time limit?" "One Thousand Three Hundred Thirty Seventh Amendment." "Ah, yes, the right to defence in the form of an average-length modern video game." [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 04:47, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Correct, the train was going to Times Square but perhaps it was not the last station? I'm not sure how the trains work in New York because I don't personally live there but it's possible that Times Square was a station on a longer line of stations where Solomon could have sent the police, ESU, FBI, Homeland Security and whatever government agencies to follow the train rigged with explosives. Creating a sinkhole does seem like a better idea but I think the purpose of blowing it in Times Square itself above ground was to send a message. The mushroom cloud that would be better seen from above ground would strike more fear, in my opinion but hey, that's just my two cents.

:::::In terms of the framing device, I have to agree with the utter ridiculousness of the idea of Blackburn describing the action he performed when recalling every single detail from the playable level but it's far more plausible than Black Ops. Thinking of how Mason could describe every single detail of his action movie experience as well as the experience of the SR-71 Blackbird pilot just made my brain stop completely. Especially when he was extremely doped up and possibly tortured judging by the bloodstains on various parts of his clothing. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:59, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::::::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI&feature=related Believe me, an underground nuclear detonation is hard to mistake for anything else]. As for Blops, I always had the image of the guys questioning him picking up the bottle of truth serum and checking the expiry date when he started with the G11s and WA2000s. Or the whole THE NUMBERS thing just ending up with him forgetting his wife's birthday. "No! Reznov said it was tommorrow!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:11, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::Holy wow. I know that's destructive and it's horrible to say this but that is indeed impressive. My sentiments exactly. However, they probably just went meh because they (as in the interrogators who were CIA) were probably using LSD as a truth serum as well as a mind control drug at the time. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 05:46, 7 December 2011 (CST)

== Question ==

I just got this game (yay! I absolutely love it, even the singleplayer) and I was gonna get screenshots but I heard I need FRAPS. What is FRAPS and how do I get it? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 21:34, 1 December 2011 (CST)

:It is a program that can record gameplays and you can also take screenshots with a hotkey if it is running in the background. It has a freeware version. I think in the free version it can only save images in BMP, but u can convert them easily. Get if from here: www.fraps.com. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 00:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::The free version watermarks videos, not sure if it does the same with screenshots. You're best off saving in BMP since the JPEG captures are pretty abysmal quality with lots of artifacting. Give me a few days first, though, I have fifteen hundred images of the singleplayer I need to sort through. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:29, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:::I just need screenshots and I have Photoshop CS4. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 18:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

::::Then yeah, http://www.fraps.com/ to download the free version. Wikipedia says it doesn't watermark screenshots even on the free version, just be sure you have plenty of HD space since a 1920x1080 BMP weighs 3-6 megabytes. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:05, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::596 GB. :B - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:49, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::: I currently use FRAPS myself. It does not watermark screenshots. Haven't tried getting videos yet. Anyways, the race is on to see who can put up pictures first.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 14:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

I will be uploading a lot of great screenshots for the page tomorrow, should I add pics of the iron sights or just ones of interest? (ie, misaligned sights, the M9's correct sights, the MEU's tritium sights, etc.) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:45, 8 December 2011 (CST)

:Actually, I'm in favour of having ironsight pictures on all video game pages, since they're so often missaligned, or out of scale, as a lot of what we do here is point out flaws and educate (hopefully) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:06, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Yay, more work. I need more weight to this. :| - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 02:22, 8 December 2011 (CST)

::Iron sights are fine as long as they're reasonably interesting and the article doesn't have too many weapons; this one should be ok. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:30, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== My God ==

I am so glad with battlefield 3 and mainly dice the are actually listening to the community and something even better they are fixing incorrect guns.

Ex:

Tweaked the AN94 so its burst fire better conveys the real world advantage offered by this weapon.

Added Single Shot to the AN94 as an available fire mode.

Slightly increased the recoil on the M416 and removed the Burst Fire mode (this weapon incorrectly had burst fire, which was not authentic).

from latest patch --[[User:Armyguy277|Armyguy277]] 19:13, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Cool! =) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:19, 2 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh! But HK416 is still called M416? :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:13, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, really? they removed burst from the 416 and added semi to the 94? Wow, cool! Those were the only fire mode errors too :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:02, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, aside from not being able to fire the spotting rifle on the SMAW. I still think it would be amusing to be able to shoot people with your 9mm tracer that shoots like a rocket. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:16, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::What? Oh, looked it up: "Each round consists of a special 9mm tracer bullet, crimped into a 7.62x51mm NATO casing with a .22 Hornet blank cartridge for propellant". That is the most WTF round I've ever heard of :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:41, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::Alex, I don't suppose you could share the link with anyone reading this page? :) -- Long Fallen 14:17, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::Oh right :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:58, 3 December 2011 (CST)

:::::::I found a more detailed look at the round here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 16:49, 3 December 2011 (CST)

::::::::I wonder if they're going to fix the "SVD" as well [[User:Santos|Santos]] 08:01, 4 December 2011 (CST)

:Is that just for PC? 'Cause I'm on the PS3 and the HK416 still has a burst mode and the AN-94 still doesn't have semi-auto as a fire mode. Or is this for the campaign? I haven't played the campaign again in a while. [[User:GunEnthusiast|GunEnthusiast]] 04:28, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::With the new patch that came out for the upcoming DLC, Back to Karkand. The AN-94 got the single-shot fire-mode and the HK416 got the burst-fire mode removed. Confirmed on the PC [[User:Santos|Santos]] 05:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

::On the PS3 here, AN-94 still has the automatic/burst selection as before; no semiautomatic fire. The HK416 also still has semi/burst/fire selection. - Long Fallen 23:18, 9 December 2011 (CST)

:::Xbox still has the old AN 94 and M416 fire modes. Also if you use the AN 94 with iron sights and swap back and forth between your pistol, the front sight disappears on the Xbox. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:30, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::::That change is in the next patch we're supposed to get, it takes longer for consoles. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:54, 20 December 2011 (CST)

Any idea of when that is? I just started using the AN 94 and love the two round burst but I'm hindered at long range because of the recoil and rate of fire.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:05, 26 December 2011 (CST)

:No idea, it has to go through certification from MS/Sony and usually takes 2-3 weeks. Ish. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:51, 26 December 2011 (CST)

== Changing Descriptions in screenshots. ==

If you take the screenshot, go ahead and put whatever you want in there. But if you're going to edit my words, do so only if there is a typo, misspell, incorrect information or bad grammar. Seriously, if you want to put your own words so badly, put your own damn screenshots up.--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 00:58, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Your screenshot descriptions read like a filing cabinet. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:40, 5 December 2011 (CST)
Then like I said previously, put up your own damn screenshots--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 13:20, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:This is a wiki. The point of a wiki is collaborative editing. As stated in the [[Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#IMFDB_is_an_information_resource.2C_not_our_private_playground | Rules, Standards and Principles]], ''"IMFDB is an information resource, not our private playground."'' --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:48, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:And besides, if you take a look at the bottom of the edit window, you'll see it reads: '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.''' So... yeah. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:12, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:If you're going to get this precious about your screenshots, then don't bother uploading them at all. While IMFDB does have a certain unwritten concept of "uploader's privilege" it does not extend to captions that sound like they were sent in Morse code and don't match the way the other captions already on the page are written and formatted. Also, lose the attitude or you'll be getting some time out. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:50, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::Unless the map or game mode is important to the image, which it usually is not, it should be left out. As for the rest of your captions, I have no problem with what you put, just the map/gamemode doesn't belong here. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:38, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:Fine fine. I didn't know you were an admin so don't ban me just to prove you can. Sorry if I sounded a little terse, but it is annoying having your words re-written constantly. But just one last thing, cause I noticed you mass changed my changes back to what you had, would you mind changing "the player character" to the class? Such as "The US/Russian Engineer in Multiplayer holds the A-91"? (i'll put that screenshot up in a bit)--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:10, 5 December 2011 (CST)
::I mainly do that because the character has no name in multi, it's much easier in single where you can do "Blackburn holds an X." "An engineer holds an X" seems a little awkward in terms of sentence structure; it feels oddly unspecific about the character holding the weapon being the one the player is controlling. I mainly make a deal of saying "the player character holds..." because it annoys me when people say "the player holds..." since the player is either holding a control pad or a mouse. Typically if the player is holding a gun something has gone very badly wrong somewhere along the line. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:28, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::[[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] is admin since October 2011, so keep that in mind. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:07, 6 December 2011 (CST)

:::I didn't know that, congrats! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:17, 6 December 2011 (CST)

::I just think that it sounds better than just saying "the player character" because it is just extremely generic. That's why I usually just put "weapon with extra extra extra attatched" without putting player character, cause it's obvious there is a player character holding the weapon. And you don't want people to be holding guns in real life? Tsk Tsk. What kinda firearm wiki admin are you? And relating to that, is there a list of site Admins available? Is it in the forum? Cause I know there's at least 5 of you guys floating around here (plus Bunni, but I have never actually seen him post or discuss something in the main wiki) and it'd be nice to know who they are. --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 10:08, 7 December 2011 (CST)

:::[[Imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database:Administrators|There you go]]. Overly long page title BTW. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:29, 7 December 2011 (CST)

As long as you don't edit my post about the PP2000 doing as much damage and throwing pebbles at someones face, that's my gem right there. :p (not like there's anything I can do about if it does get edited) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:24, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:I won't change it. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 19:28, 10 December 2011 (CST)

== Knife used by Dmitri ==

Does anyone know what kind of knife was used by Dmitri in the mission "Comrades"? Its the one he uses to cut the wires in the garage to unlock the gates. It looks ... funky and not very utilitarian--[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 21:06, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:It's a Spetsnaz machete. [http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1160] --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 21:25, 5 December 2011 (CST)
:A more in-depth look here: http://interestingswords.com/machete/russian-machete-taiga.html [[User:Nohomers48|Nohomers48]] 17:10, 8 December 2011 (CST)

== Furthering the US Army / USMC mix theory ==

IRL USMC use neither [[M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System|M26 MASS]] nor [[Heckler & Koch M320|M320 GLM]]. Army does. USMC still use [[M203 grenade launcher|M203 GL]] as UGL. As for hand-held grenade launcher... [[Milkor MGL#MGL 140|M32 MGL]]. Spammy for MP but would have worked for SP (like [[Barrett M82#Barrett M107|M107 LRSR]] did). Thoughts shared. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:40, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:Well yeah, and they also don't use the M1A2 Abrams. This seems to be in some nebulous future where the USMC has upgraded all their equipment. Also the M107 was actually pretty stupid since all you did with it was shoot some guys on the other side of a courtyard with a non-magnifying scope. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:44, 9 December 2011 (CST)

::Gotta say, upgrading equipment in the future one 'A' more doesn't seem as excessive as with entirely new one... But yeah, it's still upgrade. Like, say, giving the future US Army the USMC [[Beretta 92 pistol series#Beretta M9A1|M9A1]].
::Heh, that's the wrong mission they put M107 in. Is there any USMC mission where the long range capabilities of M107 would have served better? (Here I'm starting to think of those sniper missions in '''CoD 4''' and '''MoH''') --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:12, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::I think the best mission to have the M107 in would have been "Rock and a Hard Place," there's a lot of range in that valley. Perhaps even let you pick off officers directing things at the rear so fewer vehicles would show up. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:38, 9 December 2011 (CST)
::::In Operation Swordbreaker I sorta hoped you'd get a chance for some M107 urban action from a sniper point, taking out PLR Insurgents from afar. I'd thought big anti-material plus big city with lots of cover, be a perfect role for an Anti-Material sniper, alas it was used against you rather than use from you. Instead you just got a Mk. 11. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 11:14, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::Yeah, I was sad the M107 wasn't put to better use, it's the only time it appears in the ENTIRE game. The only I thing I didn't like in the SP. :( - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 16:31, 9 December 2011 (CST)
:::::An LRSR mission with the Barrett like the one in CoD4 would have been awesome to have in BF3. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

http://www.battlefield.com/images/bf3-hooah :\ --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 12:02, 13 December 2011 (CST)
:Holy crap, I thought that was a real Marine in that pic at first! :O [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:35, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

== Just some silliness ==

I didn't feel like uploading tons of screens for the page today so I'll put these up just for fun.
[[Image:BF3-Falcon Kick!.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Falcon Kick!''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.''']]
[[Image:BF3-Duke Nukem-2.jpg|thumb|none|600px|'''I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!''']]
- [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:00, 10 December 2011 (CST)

:Would be cool if the kick could actually have been used as a combat move like in '''F.E.A.R.''' or '''Mirror's Edge''' (also made by EA DICE) :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:More pictures with included silliness are always welcome to me :D If we could make pictures with captions as hilarious as the ones on the Far Cry 2 page, I would always come to the BF3 page whenever I'm in a bad mood xD -- Long Fallen 22:11, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::Yeah, the Far Cry 2 page is the best page ever created! :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:46, 12 December 2011 (CST)

::Wait, how do you kick? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:37, 11 December 2011 (CST)

::You can't kick, this animation only happens when your character vaults over a low lying object, like a guardrail or a rock. -- Long Fallen 22:44, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:::Dammit. I am disappoint. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:46, 11 December 2011 (CST)

To be honest, I only find the first one to be chuckle-worthy. The other two are pretty much meh. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:40, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

== Current Page Status / More Images ==

It's amazed me how long the game's been out yet there's still not very many images of all the weapons :/

I've unlocked all the multiplayer weapons, but unfortunately don't have a capture card for my PS3, which I think is moot since most of the current images look like they were taken on the PC's level of detail.

As of right now I love the current format the MP7's listing is in, showing off the accessories it can mount at one time, while also showing off each part of the reload animation. It would also be nice if each listing had the weapon's simple ironsights as the first image, or vice versa.

Either way, we need to make this image complete :D A game like this doesn't deserve to have such a barren imfdb page... -- Long Fallen 22:40, 11 December 2011 (CST)

:It's because the game's too fun to take the time to do it ;) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:43, 12 December 2011 (CST)

== HK53 ==

Is it only on the 360 version where the HK53 is, for some reason, referred to as the G53? And for some reason it comes standard with a 12x ballistic scope. It's quite amusing, the scope is as long as the gun. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 03:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:It's called G53 on PC as well. [[User:Ramell|Ramell]]
::I think the 12x is a bugged accessory, that's usually only available on those weapons for DICE Employees [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 06:01, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:::HK53 on PS3, hence that screenshot. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:12, 15 December 2011 (CST)
::::I had assumed that DICE didn't get the rights to use "HK" because in the description for all other HK guns they are referred to as "made by a German weapons manufacturer". Strange that PS3 uses the "HK".--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:44, 18 December 2011 (CST)
:12x Ballistic Scope? Can you take a screenshot and post it here? :D --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::lol sorry, I don't know the first thing about taking screenshots. I'm sure someone else here could get a screenshot. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:30, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::All the BTK guns have the DICE-only attachments unlocked by default, that is to say, all the ones you're never supposed to get. If you want screen shots I'd get them in the next month or less as they'll probly get rid of them in the next patch. 12x Scope: FAMAS, L85A2, HK53, QBZ-95B, QBB-95, MG36. Flash Suppressor: QBU-88, L96. Suppressor: Jackhammer. Note that for the Jackhammer the suppressor doesn't appear on the model in first or third person, the stats don't change, and I'm pretty sure the sound doesn't either, so really, it doesn't exist. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 10:04, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::DICE-only? Cheating Campers >:O
:::HK53 and QBZ-95B with ballistic scope - would be funny to see :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:33, 17 December 2011 (CST)

When was the screenshot that says "HK53" taken? Shouldn't that be updated with a more recent one that says "G53"? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 19:46, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== "Realistic" ==

Does it annoy the hell out of anyone else when people talk about how "realistic" BF3 is, specifically compared to MW3? Yes, DICE did a much better job on the modeling and it does have a more realistic ballistics engine, but come on. Every soldier carries around an infinitely reusable parachute? People run around with defibrillators to instantly revive teammates? Somehow the Support class fits an infinite amount of ammo for every caliber in his pocket? Then, of course, every single soldier is trained to use every jet, helicopter and tank, and the jets can be used as taxis with wing mounted seating. Don't get me wrong, these are all things that add to the enjoyment of the game, and they work really well as game mechanics, but not even remotely realistic. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 06:22, 15 December 2011 (CST)
:They call it realistic because using the word "verisimilitude" makes people think you're trying to look clever for the sake of it. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 06:27, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Yeah, some aspects of the game are unrealistic, but think about it though. Would you really want to play a game where you run out of ammo ever 5 minutes and have to run around and just wait to die or hope you knife someone to take his weapons, and then hope he too hasn't run out of ammo? Or would you want to have to go through a Gran Turismo-esque license course to be able to use every vehicle properly? While some things are clearly over-the-top, I won't argue with that, some things are obviously put in for the gameplay value, for enjoyment. IF the developers truly wanted a realistic game, they'd have the disc eject and destroy itself after you die. Though the defibrillator comment reminded me of something my friend said, "Oh, you come back to life after getting hit directly with a tank shell! Oh here, let me revive this oatmeal!" [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 20:49, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:Googling "Battlefield 3 is too realistic" and getting matching results is kinda funny. For some interesting comparisons: [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacklerScaleOfFPSRealism Fackler Scale of FPS Realism] --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:28, 15 December 2011 (CST)

::As an airsofter I find it that list really funny. Classic: All FPSs / Realistic: Airsoft :D Seriously though, what I look for when I think realism is things that work how they do in real life, how they have to work, not whether they normally are or should be used in that way. BF3 is rare in that it has the following: Tac and normal reloads all done right, one in the chamber, iron sights and optics lined up/used properly, all fire modes that should be on any weapon present, switching modes does not change the gun's stats (ie switching to semi makes gun more powerful) just the mode, damage (which can never be considered fully realistic) at a reasonable level and based on the calibre, bullet travel time and drop. Now, whether the Marines have the right weapons, vehicles, or camo, and stuff like that comes second to me, because even if they don't use a certain camo, they ''could'' as opposed to one in the chamber, which '''has''' to funtion like that. Russian soldiers don't use, say SG 553s, QJY-88s, or Jackhammers, but they could, and more importantly I can, because first and foremost in mulitplayer I'm me. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:58, 15 December 2011 (CST)

:::Well, things like single reload animation, no +1 round in the chamber, fixed firing mode, hitscan, etc. are usually the result of engine limitations. In this regard we can see that [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite-2 Frostbite 2 Engine] is more advanced than [http://www.moddb.com/engines/frostbite Frostbite 1 Engine] (which already had bullet physics; although magcount and overheating from [http://www.moddb.com/engines/refractor-2 Refractor 2 Engine] are absent; it would have also been nice if there were interchangeable magazines). Regarding the equipment it shows how much there [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch didn't do the research] and [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShownTheirWork shown their work]. Me wants [[Project Reality]] for BF3 :| --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:02, 17 December 2011 (CST)

:I'm not saying that it isn't realistic in some specific areas, sure it is, but it's a video game, and to compare it to COD and say BF is more realistic is kind of like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars and saying Star Trek is more realistic because they used the word "tachyon". That being said, I think all four examples I just used are very evertaining. [[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 04:56, 16 December 2011 (CST)

== Javelins are the best. ==

Javelin + CITV station on a tank = fantastic combination. The top down fire mode makes killing LAVs and Amtraks, especially on Noshair (sp?) Canals easy, not to mention the massively amusing ability to fire on laser painted aircraft. It's always hilarious to watch an FA/18 blow up and the guy flying just sees FGM-148 Javelin killed him and he wonders what just happened. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 02:22, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:Oh my, sounds like tracer darting in BC2 o_O --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:56, 18 December 2011 (CST)

::And CITV Station + MBT Guided Shells! Lock, fire, triple kill on one Little Bird! Lock, fire, quad on the other. I was 7/0 20 seconds into the game! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:14, 18 December 2011 (CST)

:::It's even better against a jet. I just try to imagine the expression on a pilot's face as he wonders how the hell an Abrams just shot down his Flanker. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

:The Javelins may be the best, however, setting up the SOFLAM is akin to setting yourself up with giant neon lights pointing "I'M RIGHT HERE!" to the enemies. I'm sure DICE had good intentions when programming it so that it wouldn't be ridiculously common and spammy, but it just sort of defeats the point of giving it to the stealthy ninja that the Recon class should be. Not to mention it gets even less useful on Wake Island with the mobile AA guns shooting the bright red light visible from just about any distance with the fury of a thousand angry Russians armed with PPSh's. :/ -- Long Fallen 22:32, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Oh, the Tunguska, which has the ability of firing every bullet ever made at the same time?[[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:49, 19 December 2011 (CST)

::Haha, is there any other? -- Long Fallen 01:26, 20 December 2011 (CST)

== 9K22 Tunguska ==

I've actually just realized that while the page is mostly (half) complete, the 9K22 Tunguska's armaments haven't been added to the page; because I'd like to know exactly how much ammunition for its guns it carries and approximately for how long would it waste it all before running out, since it's a mobile AA platform? -- Long Fallen 01:36, 20 December 2011 (CST)
:Ammunition capacity is 1,904, combined rate of fire is variable between 3,900 and 5,000 rounds per minute, so if we take the lower rate of fire this works out to about 30 seconds of continuous firing. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:45, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::[[Image:2a38m.jpg|thumb|none|400px|2A38M Autocannon - 30x165mm]]
::Example image in case anyone feels like adding. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 02:36, 22 December 2011 (CST)

== Added a piece of info about the M1014 ==

It's really inaccurate for even a shotgun. I've patterned my shotgun in real life which also has a cylinder bore and the pattern was half the size of the pattern in game. --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 12:46, 20 December 2011 (CST)

:This "short-range shotgun" problem is sadly common in video games, to the point which the TVTropes website has a page just for it. And Frag-12 rounds for the shotguns in this game are horribly overpowered too. I'd take a tighter pattern with a realistic damage-drop-off with distance with buckshot if they could tone down the Frag-12 rounds. For a more realistic shotgun, try playing SWAT 4. You can actually snipe somewhat well with a Benelli Nova in that game if you crouch and wait to become fully accurate.--[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 20:55, 21 December 2011 (CST)

:SWAT4... It's the same game that also has handgun sniping and guns that do less damage at point blank range. I was disappointed with the 1911 in that game sadly. :( I'd be careful advising anyone to play that game; its mechanics are ungodly finicky. -- Long Fallen 22:23, 21 December 2011 (CST)

::You could snipe with handguns in Battlefield 2 too... That was actually a tactic employed by experienced BF2 snipers: shoot the enemy with bolt-action sniper rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and finish him off ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:20, 22 December 2011 (CST)

:Meh, SWAT 4 isn't as finicky with its mechanics if you know what you're doing. The damage with its guns is somewhat random to reflect how bullets in real life don't always perform as expected (i.e., JHPs clog with clothing and fail to expand, 5.56mm FMJ fails to fragment once inside a target if the bullet isn't properly constructed or the barrel it's fired from is too short, etc.). though I will admit that the M1911 and other .45 ACP guns are underpowered in that game. But I think the reason as to why "handgun sniping" has persisted up until now is that modelling ballistic physics for bullets en masse was only possible when the right programming and hardware appeared. The BF2 example was probably implemented as well given the limited draw distance of the engine; without an omnipresent zoom system to represent how your eyes can focus on far-off objects (like in ARMA 2) the limitations of pixels on our monitors means that enemies become unrecognizable jumbles of pixels at distances we would still be able to clearly see them in real life. Also, because adjustable sights are hard to model in games (as opposed to scopes with ballistic drop markings), pistols often don't have ballistic drop either. I tried compensating for ballistic drop while shooting pistols in the STALKER series--because the iron sights on pistols can't be adjusted it's very difficult, since essentially the muzzle will obscure your target when you aim high to compensate.

:But the sooner we get realistic shotgun buckshot spreads and ranges in games, the better. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 14:02, 22 December 2011 (CST)

::The problem is, the zoom system only activates when you press a button. So any time you don't, the environment is presented in its distant form. This gives an edge to the person who secured a position and now zooms in in the enemy direction, while the enemy is on the move and can't see said person. In reality, they should see each other evenly. I like this absence of bionic eyes in [[Project Reality]]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:26, 23 December 2011 (CST)

:So you have to hold down the button in ARMA2 to focus on distant objects? Well, a toggle system would be much better (probably combined with using a "dynamic zoom" system that used your mouse wheel or two keys to zoom in and out so you could vary the amount of zoom much like your eyes can focus across a great deal of ranges). Still, given the pixellation problem that I mentioned earlier, all PCs in Project Reality have to carry binoculars so as to focus on distant targets, but these cannot be combined with weaponry, so if you're using a kit that has no optics for your gun and are trying to hit something that you can't really see unmagnified (even though in real life you would be able to see and hit a target at that distance), tough luck. Project Reality is also going in the process of making a version based on the ARMA2 engine as well. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 18:17, 23 December 2011 (CST)

::Adjustable Zoom would be nice. Sadly, developers haven't yet caught the idea. Even adjustable FOV is not in every modern shooter (and where it is, it might be limited).
::It works both ways in PR: you have problems seeing an enemy in the distance and an enemy has problems seeing you ;) And yes, I'm aware of PR for ArmA II. [http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-reality-arma2 It's currently v0.1], right at the starting line. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:47, 24 December 2011 (CST)

== M1014 magazine tube length ==

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the magazine tube length of the M1014 in-game? The weapon art models show the typical length, but in-game, the magazine length looks like a M3. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 13:12, 27 December 2011 (CST)

The pump action shotguns in the game start with four round mag tubes. Therefore the art models depict them as such. However, when you unlock "Extended Magazines", the in world model changes to the six round tube for both the Remington and the Benelli.--[[User:GLOCK10mil|GLOCK10mil]] 16:18, 27 December 2011 (CST)

:Didn't think of that. Thank you. --[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 17:03, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== UMP trigger group ==

It seems the world model for the H&K UMP has safe, semi-auto, and full auto, even though the in-game weapon operates with a selectable 2-round burst.--[[User:Baztian|Baztian]] 14:53, 28 December 2011 (CST)
:If that's true than it is an error, though the UMP ''can'' have a full/2/semi/safe trigger group. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:32, 28 December 2011 (CST)

== Back To Karkand Weapons ==

So I've been playing B2K a lot, and I've gathered a bunch of trivia about some of the guns that could be added to the page, but I'm not so knowledgable about them so I thought I'd leave them here so someone who knows more can add them into the page.

The L85A2 has three round burst as well as auto and semi, which as far as I know it doesn't in real life. It also can't mount the M320 which, again as far as I know, is the grenade launcher it mounts in real life. It's also 'cocked' by pressing a bolt release just above the magwell.

The FAMAS also has burst as well as semi and auto, again I don't know if this is true in real life.

Both the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B and burst as well as automatic and semi, but I'll admit I know nothing about these weapons. The QBZ-95B and the QBU-88 are reloaded similarly to the AN94/AEK-971 (new mag is used to push the mag release and then inserted) and it looks absolutely bizarre in first person because they're bullpup.

Also, the QBB-95 and the QBZ-95B are chambered in 5.45x39mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm and the QBU-88 is chambered in 7.62x54mm under the info screen rather than 5.8x42mm.

That's all I've got [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:17, 9 January 2012 (CST)

:The FAMAS does have all three, and a lot of the info screens are wrong or somewhat wrong, pretty sure they're just copy-pasting errors as opposed to them not knowing the calibre. Everything else you said is correct as far as I know. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 20:34, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::Well, if they are copy-pasting errors then someone should tweet Demize about it ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:10, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::The reload animation for those Chinese rifles doesn't use the magazine to push the old mag out. The character pulls out a new mag and pulls the old one out with just his fingers but has the magazine in hand to load into the gun right after. I saw a video of it with an AK once.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 21:49, 9 January 2012 (CST)

::I'm assuming DICE watched this video, I don't have a clue if this is what they teach in the PLA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmaIZ8Umnk--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 00:40, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:IRL L85A2 mounts not [http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/m320/lg_m320_3.jpg M320] but a different variant of AG36, called [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC00005.jpg UGL]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:07, 10 January 2012 (CST)

::I just Tweeted Demize about the calibre and ROFs being sometimes wrong for the BTK guns. :) Also, he says he's not going to add the HK79 and GL1 due to memory issues, which is fair. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:16, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:::That would make a nice "GL Pack" DLC though: GL1, HK79, M203, UGL... And more, should the carbines get corresponding rifle variants :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:20, 11 January 2012 (CST)

Also interesting, the QBZ-95's ironsights glitch when you fire. Actually helps. [[User:BeardedHoplite|BeardedHoplite]] 19:23, 10 January 2012 (CST)

I don't have a Twitter, could someone suggest something small on the HUD on hardcore modes that show what fire mode your gun is set to? I change it a lot and the guns with three settings make it difficult.--[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 19:43, 10 January 2012 (CST)

:I agree, and Tweeted :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:56, 11 January 2012 (CST)
::Would be kind of cool if in hardcore mode you could actually look down at your weapon and see the fire selector or check how many rounds are in the magazine. If you think having no HUD is "hardcore," just imagine having to actually worry about taking your eyes off the battleground long enough to check on your weapon like that. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:14, 22 January 2012 (CST)

== Pancor Jackhammer ==

Why? Not only is this weapon relatively pointless since they included the USAS-12 (it seems to recoil less and that's about it) but it comes with a freaking suppressor. Of all the useless devices you can equip to a weapon as insanely loud as the Jackhammer theoretically would be, this and an under-barrel can opener would just about top the list. (I presume they put it on there because the revolving magazine system of the Jackhammer has some similarities to that of a Nagant M1895.) Also, why in the hell is the freaking thing even in the game? There's supposedly a grand total of two of the dumb things in existence. If we're going to throw in an automatic shotgun prototype that never made it into production, how about the H&K CAWS? That one was actually tested by the US military. In another world, it could have been adopted. Or, hell, the Atchisson AA-12. Don't get me wrong, the Jackhammer is a cool looking gun, but it never made it off the design bench and I'm a ''little'' tired of seeing it crop up in video games claiming at least some level of real world veracity (the world "realistic" is a silly one to use for FPS games). [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 03:24, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:It's supposed to be for the nostalgia, I guess, since it was an unlockable in BF2. Much like them keeping that "DAO-12" name for the Protecta, though it's now a Street Sweeper. There were actually quite a few Jackhammer prototypes, but only two that fired fullauto. Or rather didn't, which is why there were only two. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 05:38, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:They will put XM8 as military tested weapon, methinks. CAWS was pretty cool gun in [[Jagged Alliance 2]] :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:52, 22 January 2012 (CST)

::As stated, it's in because it was in BF2, that's the point of the Back To Karkand pack. Also, it doesn't actually have a suppressor. Well, it does, but it's invisible and does not change any stats whatsoever, not even making you not appear on the minimap. So, there's just a pretend option for a suppressor. Why? Same reason the two ARs, two Carbines, and two MGs have 12x scopes, and the two Sniper Rifles have Flash Suppressors: it was an oversight, those are the attachments you're supposed to ''never'' get those attachments, only DICE gets them, because they're silly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 14:10, 22 January 2012 (CST)

Well the suppressor actually does do something, it cuts damage down. I actually like the Pancor though, with frag rounds, ext mags, and a Holo sight I can clear out most hallways on metro. But, that is pretty much the only map it is of any use on.-[[User:Ranger01|Ranger01]] 16:47, 22 January 2012 (CST)

:::Oh geez, way for me to miss the obvious. I forgot about it being in BF2, having not played the "older" games in quite a while. (Why does 2005 seem so long ago?) Actually, I was a little sad that B2K didn't include the option to hijack semi-trucks and civilian cars like you could with the Armored Fury booster pack. At least you can borrow a Bobcat on Wake Island and try to run enemy soldiers down with it for nothing other than sheer comedy value... And the other "weird" attachments (okay, maybe not the flash suppressor) are at least ''sort of'' useful. You can be extremely annoying with the MG36 fitted with a 12x - no sniper likes dodging nearly-accurate long range machine gun fire, and anything that snipers don't like is fine with me. [[User:Atypicaloracle|Atypicaloracle]] 04:26, 4 February 2012 (CST)

== Dog Tag Weapons ==
I vote we add a section either at the bottom of the page for all of them, or at the end of each class of weapons for them, because there are a LOT of guns on dog tags that aren't actually in the game. (SAA, SCAR-L, proper MG36, standard FAMAS, that weird suppressed Makarov PM variant, M203, and lots more) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:25, 26 January 2012 (CST)
:If no one objects to this, I'm going to create a sub-catagory at the bottom of each weapon class (SMG, shotgun, etc) that has all the Dog Tag-only weapons, because this page will get very confusing if we don't, as none of those weapons are in the game, just pictures of them. So far (of the top of my head) Makarov PB, Single Action Army, M1911A1, SPAS-12, SCAR-L, FAMAS (standard), M203, M16A2, M16A1, MG36 (proper). I'm sure there are more, but that's what I can think of right now. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:45, 4 February 2012 (CST)
::I've added everything I know of, but there are probably more. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:46, 8 February 2012 (CST)

== Patch is still yet to reach Xbox it appears ==

It appears as though the Xbox has been forgotten since the AN 94 still just has two fire modes and the HK416 still has it's three fire modes. Does anyone know more about it than me? --[[User:FIVETWOSEVEN|FIVETWOSEVEN]] 17:59, 17 February 2012 (CST)

:Yeah, we never got that patch that the other two platforms did. I'm assuming it'll be rolled into the patch that was originally supposed to come out for all platforms this month, but is now going to be in March at the earliest. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:57, 18 February 2012 (CST)

::Nope, here on the PS3 it's still the same, three-mode HK416 and two-mode AN94. DICE has gone on to say that across all consoles the stats are very different; however, the next patch will put all weapons on equal ground across all platforms. -- Long Fallen 02:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== All Fancy Right Side Dog Tags ==
I'm going to add this to the page soon, to replace the Dog Tag Weapons sections I made before, but right now I need sleep. They're sorted by the name of the real weapon in game, not in game name and not name of weapon in the picture, if those are different. If any of you can figure out what the not-actually-a-QBB-95 is, let me know :/ [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:36, 1 March 2012 (CST)

[[Image:BF3_500KillGuns.jpg|thumb|none|650px]]

:You have no idea how grateful I am to see this in a neat compilation! Been looking everywhere for just these designs to no avail. -- Long Fallen 02:46, 2 March 2012 (CST)
I think the QBB-95 is a totally made up frankengun. However the core of it is actually an Enfield L85, you can tell by the vent holes on the receiver: 3 horizontal vents at the rear, then a slightly larger gap followed by two slightly smaller vents. Also visible is the raised portion on the bottom edge of the upper receiver which runs horizontally under these vent holes, and the pistol grip and trigger guard seem to match. On top it seems to be a grossly oversized M4/M16A4 detachable carry handle, and the front is anyone's guess. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:56, 2 March 2012 (CST)
::Yeah, I think you're right. It also has the generic bipod most guns in BF3 use, Harris Bipod I think it's called. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:45, 2 March 2012 (CST)

== Flash Suppresor ==
I know this is really not important and probably no one cares, but I think the flash suppresor may be a Vltor VC-1. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:15, 1 March 2012 (CST)
:You found it! :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:28, 1 March 2012 (CST)

::Not important? Any info is very welcome on this site! In fact, I was wondering this myself. -- Long Fallen 02:48, 2 March 2012 (CST)

::Yeah, most definitely. We welcome clarification on any component or add-on used in the game. IMFDB's priorities are much different than those of game-based wikis. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:31, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Do you guys think we should have a section for the attachments in the game, since there are so many? For most games it wouldn't be necessary, but here there are 12 different optics, the aftermarket irons, KAC foregrip, Harris bipod, six (I think) suppressors, PEQ-2, pistol laser sight, and a tac light. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:53, 15 March 2012 (CDT)

:Yes, please include the info on which flash suppressors and other accessories are being used on which guns in the screenshots (as well as an addendum at the end of the page outlining just which real-life firearm accessories are in the game). There are many of us not in the know who would like to learn about them. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:32, 16 March 2012 (CDT)

That Javelin dogtag looks so cool. I can't wait to get to 500 kills with it. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:16, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== 3 Expansions planned for BF3 ==

[http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/07/battlefield-3-close-quarters-announced.aspx 3 Expansions planned for BF3]

Newest expansion has 10 new guns, what are you guys thinking/hoping they will be? I'm hoping for a USP, perhaps another pump action shotgun,maybe a TAR or a Galil, and an XM8 (wishful thinking on that last one, but they put the Jackhammer in, so why not?) [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 18:20, 7 March 2012 (CST)

EDIT: Can someone fix that link please? I'm not very good at this clearly.

Me being the AR fanboy that I am, I just want a short barreled AR (10 inches prefferably). cheech98 9:28, 7 March 2012

:HK416. I'd like to see another pump shotty and some pistols at the least. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:49, 7 March 2012 (CST)

::Already spoken for; the M416 is the 10" 416.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:16, 8 March 2012 (CST)

Definitely a pump shotgun, maybe an Ithica or a Mossberg with wood furniture (because with black furniture it would look too much like the 870). I would like to see an AK in 7.62x39. I was honestly appalled that BF3 didn't feature a .30 cal AK. An MP5, a Hi-Power, a CZ-75 and a SIG-Sauer would also be nice; a non-tacticool FAL, maybe an FNC (always loved that gun), a Skorpion (come on, who doesn't wanna shoot that thing in a video game), the VZ-58, the HK P7 perhaps? The HK33 would be an awesome weapon to see (although admittedly not too plausible), an Uzi (full size or mini, doesn't really matter to me), a Makarov (still common among the Russian Armed Forces, right?), the P99, and MORE REVOLVERS, DAMMIT. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 02:04, 8 March 2012 (CST)
:Yeah, I think if they added the FAL, it wouldn't be tacticool, seeing as how the G3A3 wasn't. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:32, 11 March 2012 (PST)

:Rumours are circulating that two such weapons in Close Quarters Pack are the CZ-75 Automatic is one such pistol as a competition towards the G18 and 93R and a new sniper rifle, the CZ-750 for the Recon. Also two new vehicles rumored are the UH-60 Blackhawk and M2A2 Bradley IFV. [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:07, 9 March 2012 (CST)

::But isn't the CQ Pack gonna take place entirely indoors? I'm pretty sure it said somewhere that the four maps in the next pack are going to feture entirely infantry-based, indoors combat. I guess I could see a helicopter working in there somewhere (thinking of the Airport map's chopper-gunners on MW2, I suppose) but it seems like vehicles would break the tense, room-to-room air they're going for here. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 3:56, 13 March 2012 (EST)

The HK33 is actually in the game already, in the Back to Karkand expansion pack as the 'G53' or something like that. *EDIT* Nevermind, you meant the full size rifle, my mistake...
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 12:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

It's gonna be a bunch of CQB guns, no doubt. I'd like to see (Assault Rifles) Tavor TAR-21 and the Masada. (Carbines) AKMs and the AUG A3. (Machine Guns) LSAT and the IMI Negev (Snipers) VSS Vintorez and the DSR-1 (Submachine Guns)MP5 PDW and the Colt R0991 9mm. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 16:28, 8 March 2012 (CST)

There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year, I think we are going to have our hands full identifying all them because it ain't just firearms either, they're adding a slew of vehicles with each pack as is the norm with this supposed DLC's. "Close quarters" I think is mostly gonna be all transport vehicles so I suspect, possibly Technicals, Civilian Vehicles, maybe an aerial transport helicopter/plane or light attack scout helicopters, possibly light IFV's too. Weapons are likely to be CQB in nature, I'm hoping for alot of Sub-Machine Gun's and Shotguns, the game needs more Pump Shotguns in my opinion. My general wish-list includes:

* SA58 OSW Battle Rifle and Type 95 Assault Rifle (to round out the Chinese Firepower in BF3, almost the full collection now) for the Assault Kit
* Zastava M92 (Compact AK47 Variant) and the Mark 18 Mod 0 (Ultra compact AR) and possibly the QLZ-87 Automatic Grenade Launcher (as an Anti-Vehicle Weapon, replaces the Rocket Launcher) for the Engineer
* MG3 GPMG and L86A2 (Equivalent to BF3's RPK and M27, gotta have more weapons like those for the Support Kit)
* Mark 12 SPR (American equivalent of the SKS in BF3) and CZ-750 for the Recon
* CZ-75 Auto, H&K MP5, Mossberg 590 Pump Shotgun (if it was a secondary for the Assault I'd be in love with it), TOZ-194, Valtro PM-5, Sawn Off Double Barrel, Benelli M3 Super 90, Smith & Wesson 686, SIG P226, H&K USP, QSZ-92 and FN Five SeveN are just some examples of all kit weapons I'd love to see.

[[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 10:56, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:If they added the QLZ-87, it would be '''''WAY''''' overpowered. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:28, 12 March 2012 (PST)

:Dunno about the QLZ-87, man. I'd think most Battlefield players are already sick of overpowered, hand-held weapons that can auto-fire frags. [[User:Sopher|Sopher]] 4:03, 13 March 2012 (EST)

"There's gonna be AT least 30 weapons or more tops in each of the three packs over a period of this year" 
Thirty weapons in each pack? Are you kidding me? BtK had eight weapons. And how do you know all the packs will have weapons in?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:37, 9 March 2012 (CST)
:Actually, BtK had ten weapons, and he meant at least 30 overall, he just stated it wrong. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 3:28, 9 March 2012 (PST)

They just released a new trailer that shows off some of the weapons in the first expansion pack, I only saw two but there may be more hidden throughout, the ones I saw were the L86A1 and the ACR(I assume it was the ACR, it was however called "ACW-R", I'm seeing a trend with Magpul weapons here with the PDR being renamed the PDW-R. (PS. sorry if I screwed up the formatting, this is my first entry.)
After further searching the complete list seems to be AUG, SPAS-12, ACW-R(ACR), L86A1 LSW, LSAT, MTAR-21, SCAR-L. However some people claim to have spotted the CZ-75 Auto. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 12:38, 13 March 2012 (CET)

:Good catch Spry, I watched the trailer twice carefully and found the same. I'll make it a list so it's easier to see. As with Karkand we should avoid adding anything new to the main page until we have more to add. I'm assuming the same weapon layout as Karkand until I hear something solid about that full auto CZ-75, maybe it has a stock and is a PDW? I'm also assuming what go to what classes, can't really go wrong there. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:47, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

*Assault: SCAR-L (misspelled as SCARL-L; I tweeted Demize)
*Assault: AUG (variant unknown)
*Engineer: ACR (as ACW-R, like PDW-R)
*Engineer: MTAR-21
*Support: L86A1
*Support: LSAT
*Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)
*Recon: ???
*All Kit: "M5K" (don't know what it is, described as M5K tactical machine pistol)
*All Kit: SPAS-12

LIST EDITED

::I'm excited to see the AUG and the MTAR, but the ACR and SCAR-L... while I have nothing against them (in fact, I really like them) aren't they a bit... implausible? As for the LSAT... HELL. NO. [[User:ManchurianCandidate|ManchurianCandidate]] 19:15, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

:::Not sure if this is on the up and up, but people are talking about the Recon weapons being the HK417 and the CZ-750 (these are were supposedly found buried in some code in a leaked beta build), and with both of these weapons having an effective range of about a thousand meters, this seems plausible. However others are claiming there will be no Recon weapons in this expansion, which seems like it would a stupid move on DICE's part. In addition people are saying the ACR will be a carbine with a 25+1 capacity, and that the SCAR-L will be the assault rifle weapon (seems odd to have a the 7.62 variant as a carbine and the 5.56 variant as an assault rifle, but oh well). Others say the second All Kit weapon will be something called an M5K? I'm not sure what that is. Again none of this was shown in the trailer, however some people claim to have seen the CZ-750 in the trailer, but it's such a poor view that it could just as well be the SV-98. Also, BF3 fans work fast, someone made these mock ups of the stats screens for the guns: http://imgur.com/a/iOlAQ [[User:Spry|Spry]] 03:08, 14 March 2012 (CET)

::::After thinking about it a bit, I'm starting to think the M5K is meant to be the MP5K, when you consider that they've renamed a couple of H&K weapons like the HK53 and the HK416, it's plausible that they had some licensing issues with H&K like they seem to have had with Magpul and Glock (No surprise there, considering how notoriously protective Glock is of their brand), So they probably just renamed it the M5K. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 10:29, 14 March 2012 (CET)
:::::Either that, or they misspelled it, like they did the SCAR-L. And if the MP5 doesn't have H&K's name in its name, they probably wouldn't have to rename it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:18, 14 March 2012 (PST)
::::::You also have to take into account that some of the weapons used by said classes in the trailer could just be kits they picked up in the middle of the battle, perhaps to throw off the assertion of which one belongs to who. I'm just glad the L86A1 is in there, finally another British weapon added, just add a Browning Hi-Power or a SIG P226 and I'm set! [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 14:38, 14 March 2012 (CDT)Draco122

An M203A2 would be a nice addition, since the Marines don't use the M320. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:12, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

I thought this belonged here, since we're on the subject of expansions, here's a HUGE list of updates in this upcoming patch.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/#!/bf3/news/view/2832654779195992365/ [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 01:56, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

"Recon: HK417 (as M417, like M416)" TAKE MY MONEY ALREADY. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 05:59, 14 March 2012 (CDT)

Does anyone know of any new info on the weapons in the expansion? I still have no idea of what the 2nd recon weapon is (Is recon even getting 2 weapons?). Now I'm hearing the TAR is going to be all-kit? I'm clearly confused. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 21:13, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== L96 Irons?! ==

What in the holy hell is that garbage?! finally a rifle with good iron sights and the stick a SECOND front sight on the end of the receiver rail... for a whopping 7" sight radius... dear god what a disappointment. [[User:Furious Oyster|Furious Oyster]]
:As a side note, that isn't an L96 front sight, looks more like the one that is on the G22 (German variant of the AWM). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:39, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
::Hahaha, that was my reaction too. The sights will be fixed in that big patch that should be out this month. It was on that huge notes list. EDIT: I think the BF3 rifle IS the G22; folding stock & front sight. [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/G22_ohne_Schalldaempfer.jpg here][[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 19:55, 16 March 2012 (CDT)
:[[File:AI AW G22.jpg|thumb|400px|none|G22 - .300 Winchester Magnum]]

: question on the L96, what is it chambered in? It should be .300 Winchester Magnum (I think?) but the ingame description says 7.62mmx51mm NATO... [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 00:03, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
::The standard Arctic Warfare is chambered in either .243 Winchester or 7.62x51mm NATO. However, the in game gun is modelled on a magnum rifle (can tell by the size of the magazine) which is chambered in .300 Winchester of .338 Lapua. The caliber is correct for the name of the gun, but wrong for the model it actually is. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:00, 21 March 2012 (CDT)
:Keep in mind most of the calibres are wrong for the Back To Karkand guns, like the QBs being 5.45mm [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:40, 21 March 2012 (CDT)

== Shortcuts ==

I was on the 360 Marketplace this week, looking for new Add-ons for any of my games when I came across several for Battlefield 3. They are class specific and cost 560 Microsoft points apiece or you can get the ultimate bundle which includes Air, Ground and Co-Op 'shortcuts' for a whopping 3200 points. What a shortcut entails is basically a free pass to getting ALL of the specific kits weapons, attachments and gadgets thereby bypassing the experience system if someone has the credits.

In short, this is a noob's wetdream. Personally, I think they should rename the Ultimate Shortcut Bundle to the Ultimate Lazy Bastards Bundle. Thankfully all of the shortcuts have been getting pretty low reviews. Thoughts? --[[User:Bad Boy|Bad Boy]] 16:28, 3 April 2012 (CDT)

:Wait, it includes weapon attachments? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:24, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Every other game is dumbed down for casual gamers to blow through in an hour. Why is this any different? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:51, 4 April 2012 (CDT)

:Shortcuts are gay. 'nuff said. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 17:21, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

I'm not too happy about shortcuts either, but did you really have to use gay as a way to insult it? [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42
:Sorry, I forgot gay means "happy" --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:27, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

== SPAS-12 = Pump-Action? ==

I was watching the part of the Close-Quarters Expansion Pack trailer where it showed the SPAS-12, and it looked like it was operating in pump-action mode. Is anyone else disappointed by this? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

I'm actually quite glad, I was quite disappointed with the lack of pump-action shotguns in game. I guess they could say it's an SAS-12 so it's a pump-action only variant in real life. [[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 10:04, 8 April 2012 (CDT) Recon42

I don't really care, I want more pump actions, but another tube fed semi action shotty too. --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 11:40, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

:Same here, it's not technically wrong, and since we need at least one more pump shotgun, I'm fine with it. I also think they went with the SPAS-12 because most pump shotguns like 870s, Mossbergs, Ithicas, etc, looks very similar. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 17:20, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

::True, but they could have done the Tactical version of the Benelli Nova or SuperNova. They look unique enough. Or they could have done the Kel-Tec KSG, except without continuous fire of its two magazines (I'm looking at you, MW3).

What's wrong with a pump shotgun with 12 shots (*EDITED* the Kel-tec KSG)? The street sweeper (DAO-12) has 12 shots AND is semi-auto, then there's the USAS-12 with 10+1 and FULL-auto, a pump action with 12 or 12+1 capicity wounldn't be much of a big deal. - Wantabe_Warrior38

:You think the SPAS-12 has 12 shots? It only has an 8-round magazine. *EDITED* No, when I said "continuous fire", I meant in MW3, you continually fire as if it automatically switched its magazines, instead of actually having to manually switch it. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:57 7 April 2012 (PST)

::Pretty sure he meant the KSG. And yeah, the SuperNova looks pretty sweet, I like the trigger guard :) EDIT: Are there any pump-action mag-fed shotguns? I can't think of any, but that'd be pretty cool, like the M1014 and Saiga-12K. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:30, 9 April 2012 (CDT)
:::There are conversion kits to convert popular pump guns to magazine fed, but they look odd with the magazine being further forward than normal, under the existing magazine tube. There are pump actions that are made with box magazines like the [[Valtro PM5 Shotgun]] series, or the [[Hawk shotgun series]]. There is also the [[Franchi SPAS-15]] which is semi/pump like the SPAS-12. I have also seen Saigas that have been converted to pump action. These are just off the top of my head, there are probably other, more obscure weapons out there. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:47, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

== KH2002 Magazine ==

Is it using the 20 round stanag magazine? Looks like it. If it is, ill mention it on the kh2002 portion of the page
EoghanG93 22-4-12

The in game magazine capacity is 30. So I doubt it would be, someone would've picked up on that mistake by now. [[User:Spry|Spry]] 01:24, 27 April 2012 (CET)

== RPK Mag ==
So, it seems someone screwed up during the development of the patch and now the RPK has an extended mag option that gives it 199+1 rounds :O [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 18:31, 11 April 2012 (CDT)
:I think it was a DICE only attachment pre-patch --[[User:CommanderLukas|CommanderLukas]] 20:02, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

:Doubtful, the MG36 and the QBB are mysteriously missing their "extended mag" attachments, leading to the unfortunate scene of a perpetually capped off Beta C-Mag. :S -- Long Fallen 02:02, 16 April 2012 (CDT)

:The QBB is only supposed to have 75, so that was good, I think they just forgot to up the default capacity of the MG36 when they removed the attachements. Also, those two also got a heavy barrel option, and the AS Val got a 30 round mag option. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:15, 17 April 2012 (CDT)

:After June patch, RPK Ext. magazine is gone. However, they introduced Ext. Magazine for M27 IAR, and MG36 is still missing extended magazine and it's limited to fire only 51 rounds.....Nice job DICE! [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] 11:52, 13 June 2012 (PST)

::LOL! Baby steps... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 15:10, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

== Donya Fortress Trailer ==

See this for the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LipJK6nxEw&feature=g-u-u

Weapons seen (Confirmed):
*MTAR-21
*SPAS-12 (fired in pump action)
*AUGA3
*ACR (Called ACW-R)
*JNG-90
*L86 (Seen at 1:14)

Weapons seen (Unconfirmed):
*LSAT Machine Gun (Used by Engineer at 0:29 and seen in killfeed)
*Unknown compact AK variant (Seen at 1:11, carried by Engineer, looks different from AKS-74U)
*Unknown long barrelled Revolver (Also seen at 1:11, carried by a Support)

Thats all I can spot [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:05, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

M417 appears in the Killfeed. [http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/File:M417.jpg Sauce.] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:32, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

:I'm betting it's the semi-auto sniper for the recon kit [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] 12:49, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
::The fact it's seen being used by a Recon kit at around 1:05 with an EoTech and a suppressor lends credence to the idea.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:54, 26 April 2012 (CDT)

:::Looks like a standard 74U to me, but that pistol doesn't really look like anything. I found the MP5K, it's at 0:50. As far as I can tell this just confirms the SPAS-12 is pump, the MP5K is the SMG, and the other sniper is the JNG-90, which I'd never heard of before. Also, they updated the "AUG" to "AUG A3" since the last trailer :) [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:45, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
::::Yeah, I'm pretty content with the weapons selection now that we've pretty much seen all of them. I'm kind of hoping that the SPAS-12 is both pump-action and semi-auto, though.
:::::From the press release: ''•Earn 10 new weapons and bring them back to the base game including: 1.AUG Assault Rifle, 2.SCAR Assault Rifle, 3.ACW-R Carbine, 4.MTAR-21 Carbine, 5.M417 Sniper Rifle, 6.JNG-90 Sniper Rifle, 7.L86LSW Machine Gun, 8.LSAT Machine Gun, 9.M5K Tactical Machine Pistol, 10.PAS-12 Shotgun'' [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 06:18, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

:Good, the SCAR-L is an AR and the ACR is a carbine, that's what I was hoping for, and the only thing we didn't know for sure. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 13:29, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

== SIG SG 553 ==

Do you ever see the charging handle of the SG 553, as I'm wondering whether it is genuinely an SG 553 or a mislabelled SG 552 (charging handle is the only deffinite difference). The gun picture is actually a mislabelled SG 552. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:20, 26 April 2012 (CDT)
:You can look at the right side of weapons in-game by putting them on a bipod and rotating them. What exactly is the definitive difference between the 552 and 533, other than the RIS? --[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 19:07, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

== MP7A1 ==

No matter how many times I look at, or just think of, the MP7 rounds ''this'' big I have hilarity induced seizures. Thanks for the unending joy, but I am suing you for giving me epilepsy. --[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 11:35, 27 April 2012 (CDT)

...what?
--[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 01:13, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

One of the screen shots for the MP7 shows the reload animation without a magazine, so the animation looks like the player is gesturing how big the bullets would be.--[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]] 01:26, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

:It's pretty funny, as are a lot of the other ones. Whoever does those captions, I don't know if it's everyone or one really funny person, but thank you :D [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:52, 28 April 2012 (CDT)

== Missing Screenshots ==

So I noticed we're still missing a in game screenshots of some of the BtK weapons. I loaded up fraps and snapped a few of the ones I have unlocked. I'm missing the QBU-88 QBZ-95B the L96 and the MK3A1, but I have a few good shots of the rest. Screwed up catching images of some of the charging animations though. Also, the charging animation on the L85 looks like it's just smacking the cheek rest. Photo album is here: [http://imgur.com/a/j38Rv] I'll let someone more senior that me decide which photos to add, it's been a while since I edited a wiki. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 09:29, 30 April 2012 (CDT)
:That is correct for an L85, there is a bolt release catch underneath the cheek rest on the left side of the gun. When you empty a magazine the bolt will lock back, so you just need to change the magazine and push the catch up to chamber the first round. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:11, 30 April 2012 (CDT)
::Thanks for that Commando, info on the L85 seems hard to find. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 22:56, 30 April 2012 (CDT)

== PP-19 ==

Since the patch hsa changed the PP-19to be chambered in the 9x18mm Makarov, would it be at all possible to have the screenshot of the loadout screen to represent the change? It currently shows it pre-patch where its still in the 9x19mm Parabellum. I'd do it myself but I only have it for 360 and I don't know how. Thanks. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 13:58, 13 May 2012 (CDT)

== How do we know the M1911 in this game is an M-45 MEU(SOC)? ==

The real life picture provided shows the pistol with U.S. Army markings. How do we know the in-game M1911 is actually an MEUSOC?

:"It is a standard M1911A1 with a three-hole trigger, a Springfield slide, commander-style hammer, beavertail grip safety, Pachmayr rubber grips, and uses 8 round magazines." That's an exact match to the 1st-gen MEUSOC pisotls. As for why it has army markings, it was probably built on a standard Army M1911A1, but I don't know for sure. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:57, 16 May 2012 (CDT)

== Close Quarters Weapons ==

So I bought Premium, and I've unlocked a few of the guns. Uploaded some screens, and I'm gonna start adding them into the page.

I have the SCAR-L, AUG-A3, ACR, HK417, SPAS-12, L86A2. I can't unlock the MP5K or the JNG-90 until the maps are unlocked on PC, but I'll add the LSAT and MTAR-21 screens when I unlock them. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 09:05, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

Added missing screens of the L85A2, MG36, QBB-95, LSAT, MTAR-21. Still have the QBU-88 sniper rifle and the L96/G22 to add. Too tired to add them now. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:21, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

== CQ Weapons Comments ==

I was disappointed to see the ACR in the carbine kit although it's the full length version with a fixed stock. I was hoping they'd put the SCAR-L in the carbine kit instead, as the SCAR-H already is there.
I Also liked if the HK417 was in the assault kit also as a Battle rifle. THe G3A3 is the only battle rifle in the Assault kit.
Instead of the HK417 being in recon they could have put in a modernized Saiga 308 or the Mk12 SPR.
Apart from that I rather do like the DLC and the weapons. [[User:EoghanG93|EoghanG93]] 10:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)
:I think they put the SCAR-L in the Assault kit because they needed to do a little balancing with the SCAR-H and -L. If the lower-powered one was the one with the shorter barrel, and therefore range, the higher-powered one would be chosen, whether it was in the same kit or not, because of its higher power and range. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:25, 9 June 2012 (PST)

The ACR is apparently using the 6.5 Grendel round, if the Battlelog weapon profile is anything to go by. -- Long Fallen 15:53, 8 June 2012 (CDT)
:Yeah, that's probably why it has a 26-round magazine instead of a 30-rounder. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:34, 9 June 2012 (PST)
::The damage of this gun is actually a lot different from other engineer guns. Unlike M4/AKS-74U and etc, it does less damage in close range, but it does more damage than other carbines. Is that an accrate representation of 6.5 Grendel round?? [[User:Zzang1847|Zzang1847]] 11:40, 13 June 2012 (PST)

== L86= A1 or A2? ==

On the page, it says that the L86 in-game is an A1, mislabeled as an A2. However, if that was because of the charging handle, I've heard of L85A1's and L86A1's upgraded in the field to A2 retaining their old A1 charging handle. Is there anything else that differentiates the L86A1 and A2? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 7:21, 9 June 2012 (PST)
:"upgraded in the field"
:You can do that? Last time I checked most of the A2 upgrades were armourer / factory level changes that can't be done by the average squaddie in the field. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:58, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::That's what I heard, maybe a gunsmith in the field upgraded it for the rest of the people in his squad/platoon/other organisation level in the military. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 1:59, 10 June 2012 (PST)

The L86 has the same charging handle as the L85 in game, if that makes a difference. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 06:04, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

Looks like it's missing the guard around the magazine catch that was added to the A2. Also, I don't know what the hell is going on [[:File:Bf3_l86a2_bolt.jpg|here.]] It's not "slapping the bolt catch" because A. The SA80 bolt release is on the other side of the weapon, and B. you can't slap it anyway. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 06:48, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
:That is "slapping the bolt catch", as there is a bolt release catch on the left side of the weapon just above the fire selector (where he is slapping). On SA80 weapons there is a catch on the right side behind the ejection port which you use to hold the bolt open, but there is a separate release catch on the left side. If you empty a magazine and the bolt locks back, to reload the weapon you just have the change the magazine and press the catch up to release the bolt and chamber the first round. You are correct that it doesn't have the shield around the mag release indicating that it is based on an A1 (or an inaccurate airsoft A2). Also, there were no field upgraded A2 weapons, the upgrade was carried out in a factory by H&K. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:34, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::Ah, than I guess it is an A1. Thanks, Commando. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 2:00, 10 June 2012 (PST)
:::So it's an A1 with an A2 charging handle? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:29, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Does anyone have a shot where you see the charging handle, as there are none on the main page. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:00, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Edit: I just searched on youtube for some vids of it and it is very hard to see the charging handle clearly, but it is visible when you vault over things and it appears to be a standard round A1 handle rather than the comma shaped A2 handle. In fact now that I'm thinking about it, the A2 flash hider pokes upwards higher than the top of the receiver, so if it was an A2 handle you should be able to see it from the regular view anyway. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:10, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

::::: The L86 is an A1, I think? The charging handle is straight, and not the crescent/comma shaped one from the L85A2. You can see it clearly here. [[File:l86 a1 charge handle.jpg|400px|thumb|none]] [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 17:38, 10 June 2012 (CDT)
That confirms it then, just a straight L86A1. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:43, 10 June 2012 (CDT)

I'm glad that DICE seems to at least understand the difference between the A1 and A2, because the L86 in the trailer was called L86A1, and they might have changed it to A2 to rid it of the horrid reputation of the A1. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:08, 10 June 2012 (PST)

== Armoured Kill ==

New info out! Can anyone help on IDs? The AC-130 is obvious, and the Quad appears to be the BC2 one. There's a pair of Mobile Artillery, and a pair of "Tank Destroyers". I'm not that good with vehicles, but I see a tank that looks like a T-52? T-72? Something Soviet. Also, what looks like a Stryker with a huge cannon. US Mobile Artillery? [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:35, 11 June 2012 (CDT)

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/823-ac-130-not-driveable/

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/826-battlefield-3-dlc-armored-kill-g4tv/

http://www.enterbf3.com/news/822-ac-130-plus-bandar-desert-screens/

:I think the Styker is the M1128 Mobile Gun system (unless there's another Stryker which carries a big gun), so I think that would make it one of the 'tank destroyers'. I don't think the tank is a T-72, the hull doesn't look right. [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]

The Russian vehicle looks like a 2S25 Sprut airborne tank destroyer. --[[User:AK-74Fan|AK-74Fan]] 10:45, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

::I believe you're both right. I looked up the Sprut, it's basically a BMD-3 with a tank cannon, which matches the Stryker nicely. That gives us our two tank destroyers, so we have yet to see either mobile artillery vehicles yet. EDIT: BF Wiki says that's right, and that the MA are the M142 HIMARS and the BM-21 Grad. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:19, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

There was a teaser video for the Battlefield 3 premium release that showed the wire outlines for the Grad and the HIMAR but no action video unless you count the Grads in the Single player mission called "Thunder run" I think. Also the box art for the armoured kill expansion shows a H-60 Blackhawk so that might be included as well. -[[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

:Nah, the Blackhawk's just on the box art again. Premium confirms we know everything, 20 guns, 10 vehicles. 10 guns in Karkand and 10 in CQB. Three vehicles in Karkand, six in Armoured Kill, plus the motorcycle in End Game. That's everything. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 09:22, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:: Wait, so we're not getting any new weapons in Armored Kill? I thought DICE said we were getting 10 new guns in each expansion? [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 12:31, 16 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Well, there's rumoured Mk 14, but as far as I know, no. They said 20 guns, that's 10 in Karkand, 10 in CQ. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 01:36, 17 July 2012 (CDT)

::That explains it, when I saw the 10 vehicles I forgot about the ones from Karkand and thought 10 new vehicles. I thought it was seemed out of place for an Army Blackhawk when the Marine UH-1Y is already in the game. That bugged me in BF2. [[User:Insertjjs|Insertjjs]]

== ACR in 6.5mm Grendel? ==

Hi, I just wonder that the expected caliber for the ACR is 6.5*39mm Grendel. Can please somebody explain this exception to me?

U used to expect 6.8*43mm SPC, because of the capacity of 26 Bullets in the STANAG Shaped Magazine.

The usual STANAG Shape Capacity of the 6.8 SPC is around 25 and the 6.8mm SPC base diameter in 10,72 cm. The Grendels base diameter in 11,15, so I expect a lightly smaller Mag Capacity.

And isn't it more explicable that Remingtron delivers his own weapons in its own caliber first?

By the way, this is not a fixed opinion but more like a thought, that we might say that the 6,8 SPC is a possible caliber to. [[User:RRT877|RRT(//]] 10:52, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:Copied directly from Battlelog- ''This adaptive combat rifle features a number of recent rifle designs and acts as a lightweight, feature heavy, rifle platform. '''Using the modern, recoil-reducing “Grendel” round,''' as well as being built to endure rough weather conditions and capable of utilizing standard STANAG magazines, this rifle is equipped to fill many of the roles required by both military and law enforcement uses.'' However, the ammunition specs say ''30 rounds [5.56x45mm NATO]''.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 12:16, 18 June 2012 (CDT)
::Well, the "ACR 6.8" in MW3 also had a 30-round capacity and it was using PMags. Developers don't really care about stuff like this being real. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:38, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:::Infinity Ward, sure, but DICE puts way more effort into making their games realistic.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:37, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

I have the ACR unlocked, and the mag curve definitely isn't 5.56x45. If you guys want I can grab a screenshot of it to clear it up? [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 17:08, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

I'm thinking that DICE originally intended to make it in 5.56, but changed the model to 6.8 and forgot to update the Battlelog specs.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 17:37, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

:Well regardless of their first intention, I say we go off the magazine curve. Which is here[http://i.imgur.com/7zNVl.jpg] [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:10, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

::I wasn't suggesting that we should go off of their first intention, but rather trying to figure out why Battlelog is so drastically different from the in-game model (which is clearly a 6.8)--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 18:30, 18 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I don't think they pay as much attention to battelog. The QBZ-95B and QBU-88 were both listed as the wrong caliber, and the assignment images are all over the place. According to it's Assignment image, the Mk3A1 is chamber in .223 remington. [[User:Nikonov|Nikonov]] 18:33, 18 June 2012 (CDT)

Thank to you for clearing this. So Our Point is:

Model: 6,8 SPC
Battlelog: 5,56mm / 6,5 Grendel
Stats: 6,5 Grendel

Would you sight this? [[User:RRT877|RRT877]] 11:29, 19 June 2012 (CDT)

== Two questions ==

1. Do all of these bullpup weapons actually have bolt releases? I guess other games like Rainbow Six have kinda drilled me on using the charging handle on weapons like the AUG and SA80
2. Is it technically incorrect for Marines to be using 240B's? I've read a few articles, as well as seen pictures of Marines with 240's equipped with the rails and heat shields characteristic of a 240 Bravo.

:I don't know about the AUG, info on the L85 is hard to come by, but from what I've found it does have a bolt catch. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 23:44, 18 June 2012 (CDT)
As there is a bit of confusiong and lack of information out there, I'll give a little run down on the controls.
[[File:Sa80-l85a2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
The bolt handle is obvious, being the curved piece of dark plastic at the front of the bolt. The large green piece of plastic behind this is a dust cover that opens when the bolt moves back (it doesn't close when the bolt goes forward again, it has to be manually closed). Behind and below the dust cover is a small green plastic catch which is the bolt hold-open catch. The way that you are meant to use the hold open catch is to reach over the top of the weapon with your left hand, pull the bolt back with the side of your index finger, and when the bolt is fully retracted you push down on the catch with your thumb. It isn't really visible in this shot, but the safety is a cross-bolt above the trigger.
[[File:L85A2Iron.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
This isn't a great pic of the left side but it is the only one on here. The fire selector is at the bottom of the weapon, half way between the magazine and the butt pad. The lower position is "A" for automatic and the upper is "R" for repetition (semi-automatic). Just above and forward of this there is a square catch just below the cheek rest. This is the bolt release, and when the bolt is held back you pull it down to release the bolt. Not sure if just slapping it on the side would actually work, but in essence the reload animation is correct. However, just realised that the model for the L85A2 is missing the fence around the magazine relese. My guess is that they reused the receiver model from the L86A1 and just put the correct charging handle on it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:45, 19 June 2012 (CDT)

:Ah, you push it down, okay :) Thanks for the info [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 11:25, 19 June 2012 (CDT)

== m-tar 21 ==

Does anyone know how the m-tar mounts accessories? The front grip doesn't appear to have any rails

:If you look at the picture in Battlelog, you can see that there are rails on the in-game model. This is not inaccurate, as rails can be mounted.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 14:00, 26 June 2012 (CDT)

== Correct Dragunov SVD? ==

I recently got the Mastery dogtag for the SVD and I think It's the correct version and not the NDM-86?

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/Finncq/dogtags/245528281/ps3/

--[[User:Kona|Kona]] 10:38, 22 July 2012 (CDT)

:Looks like it is the proper one. A number of the Mastery dog tags do that, the MG36 comes to mind. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 03:38, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

== Mk. 14??? ==

I was reading the page, and I saw Mk. 14 Mod 0 in the Assault Rifles & Battle Rifles category. Now, naturally, I was confused, because there was no confirmed Mk. 14 in any footage of anything about the game. Then, I clicked it and was taken to its space on the page, and it said it was seen in Armored Kill gameplay in the hands of the Engineer class. First off, even if the the Mk. 14 was in the game, it wouldn't a carbine, so it was probably picked up by the Engineer. Second, DICE previously confirmed that '''there would be no new weapons in Armored Kill'''. So, that wasn't a Mk. 14, that was an M39 picked up by an Engineer. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 00:16, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

The M39 is rumored to be an all-kit weapon in Armored Kill. If they do that, I think the G3A3 should become all-kit, too, kinda like Bad Company. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 09:20, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

The M39 is a marksman rifle. It belongs in the Recon class. --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 11:08, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

Let's just take it off the page. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 11:58, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

:I agree it shouldn't be on the main page yet. It was seen in video of Armoured Kill gameplay in the hands of an Engineer, as he switched to and RPG in the footage. The ammo count was 20 +1 and, though I don't remember, it may have been firing full auto. That's all we know right now. I've also heard rumours that they may add the M107 into MP, though those are compelete rumours, so don't get your hopes up. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 06:48, 31 July 2012 (CDT)
::Could you post the link to said video? --[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 11:24, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

:::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wapDDxuvhCg Here]. At 0:40, 1:10, & 1:22. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 05:14, 1 August 2012 (CDT)

::::Interesting...--[[User:Commander Lukas|Commander Lukas]] 15:59, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

:::::Guys, apparently, the full-auto Mk. 14 being used by an Engineer was probably just a DICE-exclusive weapon. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 21:20, 1 September 2012 (CDT)

:::::Can anyone confirm that it was indeed a Mk 14? If it's in the game in any fashion, it should be on the page. Whether it's DICE-exclusive or publicly-usable is irrelevant. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:35, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

::::::No new info, sadly. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:51, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

== Could we remove info added pre release ==

Some of the weapons have info added pre release such as the Franchi SPAS-12 as the page says it is one of the 10 guns in the UPCOMING close quarters expansion pack and plenty of others have remnants of info added pre release.--[[User:Xtremegianca|Xtremegianca]] 21:32, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

== EA/DICE "Silently" Removing DLC weapons ==

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/electronic-arts-removes-content-from-battlefield-3s-aftermath-and-end-game-dlc/

Just came across this tid-bit of information regarding Aftermath and Endgame DLC's about EA removing content from Aftermath and End Game despite the fact that previous advertising marked that an additional 10 new weapons would be provided but I'm getting mixed thoughts about this all and wanted peoples views? I personally think it's bogus, what with the new Aftermath Trailer showcasing a Crossbow as a new weapon but I've heard nothing concrete and was wondering if anyone had any idea if this is confirmed or not? [[User:Draco122|Draco122]] ([[User talk:Draco122|talk]]) 19:22, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

:The DLC hasn't been released yet, so they're allowed to add or remove anything they want from it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:30, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

::These two DLCs never said anything about new weapons, there were always going to be 20, and the article even admits that :/ As for the bullet points on the pictures, there's only room for four things, so they most likely decided marketing the new gamemode was better than marketing the crossbow. It's made from an HK417, by the way. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 15:50, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

:::Actually, it's not. It's a real-life crossbow upper receiver for AR-15 platform lowers. It's called the [http://pse-archery.com/products/productdetail/part_number=01135/445.5.1.1.87663.1003538.0.0.0 PSE TAC 15]. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 19:50, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Medal of Honor: Warfighter

2012-10-28T21:06:33Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Rant Mode On */

== LaRue OBR ==

I changed the M4 entry, but I don't have a picture of the OBR without LaRue watermaks. -- Spike785 2/25/2012 10:35PM

Yeah, I went ahead and removed the M4 picture. No point in having it there if it isn't the weapon being described. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:53, 25 February 2012 (CST)

I suppose I should have done that. Should I link the 7.62 OBR pic? Or buy one and upload some sexy pics of it? [[User:Spike785|Spike785]] 23:19, 25 February 2012

Its not an OBR like I originaly thought, its a PredatAR. The handguard is too thin to be an OBR's, and the way the handguard angles up toward the reciever gives it away. [[User:Spike785|Spike785]] 9:21, 26 February 2012

:It is an OBR 5.56, the top rail is raised up higher than on a PredatAR. The 5.56 OBR is pretty different to the 7.62 in terms of the handguard being more like the PredatAR one. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:04, 26 February 2012 (CST)

== MEU(SOC) Pistol? ==

Is that the M1911 variant in new game? The lower part of slide doesn't seem to end like one. It could be one of custom M1911s used by Delta Force. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 8 March 2012 (CST)

I'm just happy there's a 1911, period. lol Hopefully it appears in the SP campaign, though. I've no interest in MP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 19:35, 8 March 2012 (CST)

the M1911 makes me happy as well but I'd also like to see another SIG in SP. [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 22:20, 8 March 2012 (CST)

== Sniper Rifle in Trailer ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/03/shoot-win Shoot To Win | Medal of Honor]

It's one of the four: [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-cs5.php CS5] / [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-300.php TAC-300] / [http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-50.php TAC-50] / [http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?clicktype=rifles M1A] (McMillan customized)

And totally not M40 of any kind.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:58, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

Sweet, we get to play as Ryan McMillan. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:24, 23 March 2012 (CDT)

It's propbly the the TAC-300, the limited edition of the game come with a MP SEAL skin and the TAC-300 rifle early unlocks. - Wantabe_Warrior

== More details of the cover art! ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/03/worlds-finest-illumination-tools-and-tactical-products SureFire, LLC | Medal of Honor]

The [http://www.surefire.com/FA556-212-Suppressor FA556-212 Sound Suppressor], attached to the [http://www.surefire.com/mb556k-muzzle-brakeadapter.html MB556K Muzzle Brake / Suppressor Adapter];

The [http://www.surefire.com/m720v.html M720V RAID WeaponLight], attached to the left rail of the weapon, with its remote dual switch attached to the top rail of the weapon.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:23, 31 March 2012 (CDT)

== Dual Sights! ==

[http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/04/brilliant-aiming-solutions Trijicon, Inc. | Medal of Honor]

''"We will also give the player the ability to deploy ACOG® weapon sights with a “piggy-back” Ruggedized Miniature Reflex or RMR® for close-quarter engagements without having to transition from the primary to a secondary weapon system. But just in case, if gamers want to forgo all magnification, they may also choose to outfit their weapon with the full sized Trijicon Reflex Sight."''

'''Another conclusion''': the weapon sight on the cover art turns out to be [http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_TA01NSNRMR_p/trijicon-ta01nsn-rmr.htm TA01NSN-RMR] rather than [http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_TA01NSNDOC_p/trijicon-ta01nsn-doc.htm TA01NSN-DOC].

'''Another speculation''': will the [http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RX01 RX01] / [http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RX01NSN RX01NSN] reflex sight have correct amber dot reticle, like IRL, or incorrect red dot reticle, like in [[Battlefield 3|BF3]]? Place your bets.

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 04:46, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

== MP interview firearms ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-wWouKKQEM&feature=player_embedded

SASR armed with an AUG (I assume Austeyr) at 0:55 and a mortar of some sort at 1:08.[[User:Animalmenace|Animalmenace]]
:Don't think it is an Austeyr as it is missing the bayonet lug on the barrel. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:01, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Steyr AUG ==

In a video report of the E3 2012 on the official website the AUG make a short apperance. It's actual game footage from the multiplayer contest at the LA expo and the rifle is shown used by the guys who won the contest. It appears with a tan camo and dual sight.
(sorry fot eh weak english)
:By the look of the camoflage on the arm (DPDU) it looks like its for the aussies, though thats a little erroneous seeing we have our own steyrs (F88SA2's as of current, see [http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=89682.0;attach=29950;image])

*Also odd is its inclusion as a SASR weapon when SASR (or any Aussie SOF) have not used the F88 platform for over a decade. Clearly its been included simply to get an AUG variant into the game... ~~YEPPOON~~

:They kind of have to to have a varied weapon selection between units, since the SASR uses the M4A1 as their regular issue weapon just like virtually every first-world SOF unit in existence. And those that don't use actual M4s (like the Brits and I believe the Norwegians) instead use C8s. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 07:02, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

== SIG P-226, HK USP - Medal of Honor Warfighter Grudge Match ==

What looks like a SIG P-226 and a HK USP can be seen in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6TORbW87qE]--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 01:10, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

Freddie's got a SIG P226. EDIT: Actually I think he uses a USP9 for the second match. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] 10:18, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

Its not a USP. Its a HK45C with extended 10 round magazine. Same one Navy SEALs have been using for a few years. I'm sure the player just mistook it for a USP. [http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2009/Day3/DSC04917.JPG] --[[User:snake1|snake1]]

Yeah I was just about to say that, at one point in the video you can see HK45C written on the slide and HK45 on the grip. Here's the pic: [[Image:HK45CMOH.JPG|thumb|none|500px|The slide reads ''HK45C .45 Auto'' and ''HK45'' can be seen on the grip. The pistol also has a threaded barrel.]] --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 10:46, 23 July 2012 (CDT)

== New trailer weapons ==

From what I can see in the new fireteam trailer the Glock variant is an 18, there's a PKP Pecheneg, a SMAW, an AK5, an AKS-74U with a fixed stock or possibly a generic Krinkov (referred to as "Suchka" or "Little Bitch", a Kimber 1911, a Remington 870, an OBR 7.62, what I think is an MSR, the F88 AUG and an M79 grenade launcher. There's also an M86 PDM as seen in the killfeed on one of the shots. Here's a link to see if anyone can spot something I missed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUxxNv3NCB8&feature=channel&list=UL--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 07:28, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

You sure that's a Kimber? I watched the trailer a couple times and never got a really good look at the 1911. Maybe it's the one that Larry Vickers built for the game.
http://www.recoilweb.com/larry-vickers-demos-hk-mp7-7665.html
Either way, I'm glad we get to kick some ass using JMB's masterpiece in this one. [[User:ShootingLiberal|ShootingLiberal]] 13:43, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Yeah, I think that's the right 1911. I think it's kind of ironic that after so many CoD fails with naming it the AK74U that we finally get what really could be called that (fixed stock in krinkov config)--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 16:06, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

:Maybe it's a stab at CoD by EA? Like, "hey guy, this is an ''actual'' "AK-74U", look and learn, amateurs!" [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 06:47, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

That's what I thought too, that's why I love DICE being so competitive after BF3 coming out and giving MW3 a kicking--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 07:23, 22 August 2012 (CDT)

== We need more images ==

I have edited this page to add some of the new weapons that have been shown in trailers over the past two months. However, someone needs to add images from the trailers to the page. Also, someone needs to analyze the promotional images that have come out and add whatever weapons appear in them to this page - because I can't do that, as I don't know enough about guns. [[User:Markunator|Markunator]] 10:29, 16 August 2012 (CDT)
:Or we can just wait for the game to come out in October and we can be absolutely certain about the guns and get real screenshots. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:56, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== We need a freaking kit up screen! ==
I know, it's unlikely we'll get one, but I'm getting pretty tired of the "here's the weapon you get to use" approach that shooters take these days. Units like Delta and ST6 get their pick of the armory, so since we're playing these very guys, shouldn't we the players get the same luxury? I could understand making mission-essential accessories (suppressors, etc.) mandatory, but at least let us choose the weapon itself. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 13:04, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
:Like in GR:FS. That would be great. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 15:26, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
:Or like ''SOCOM III'' had back in 2006.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:59, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
:You forgot about SOCOM 4.--[[User:Commandoninja137|Commandoninja137]] 17:03, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
::Because I haven't played it. So I wouldn't know. =p [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:50, 18 August 2012 (CDT)

== Possible Kimber Warrior ==
[[File:Kimber Warrior MoH.jpg|thumb|none|450px]]

Found this on the MoH wiki. Sorry for the low resolution, it was a .PNG so I had to screencap and save it as a .JPG. They have it identified as a Kimber Warrior. I've compared it with the pics of the M45 we have here and the coloration at least is different from the one on this page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:15, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

Or it could be the special custom 1911 made for the game. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 18:18, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

: The barrel bushing on this 1911 looks to be either stainless or nickel plated, something that the Kimber Warrior does not have. Since the image is low resolution it is hard to determine what the exact model of 1911 is, but it could be the Vickers Tactical as already seen on the page. [[User:Dover500|Dover500]] 19:31, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

== Added Pics ==
I added a bunch of pics that were mostly from the second fireteam trailer, I thought the page seemed a little bare. Sorry about the quality, I was using the Screencapture function on an iPad to take these pics and then had to convert them to .JPGs. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:20, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

== Youtube Channel, HK121/MG4? ==

Noticed this on the Youtube channel background image. I can't tell if its a HK-121 or HK MG-4, anyone want to have a go at ID?--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:33, 3 September 2012 (CDT)[[File:GROM MoHW (MG4).JPG|thumb|none|600px]]

Sorry about the image size.--[[User:Mattatack92|Mattatack92]] 05:34, 3 September 2012 (CDT)

:Googling around that higher handguard is MG4. Though why you'd put a suppressor on an LMG I don't really know. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:05, 3 September 2012 (CDT)

::The same reasons you'd put one on any other firearm, to decrease muzzle flash and sonic report. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 08:07, 3 September 2012 (CDT)

:::Yeah, but wouldn't putting a thing that doesn't like protracted automatic fire on a thing that's designed for automatic fire be, you know, pointless? As in putting a bayonet on a crew served weapon pointless? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 09:48, 3 September 2012 (CDT)

::::Various militaries do use suppressed LMGs, but I don't think they are standard "rifle" suppressors. There are quite a few companies that make suppressors specifically designed for machine guns like the Minimi, but I believe they tend to provide less suppression as they are beefier on the inside to stand up to the abuse so they have fewer baffles to absorb the muzzle blast. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:38, 3 September 2012 (CDT)

:::::I'd heard clearing teams tend to use suppressed weapons so they can still communicate verbally without deafening each other every time they fire, is that what it's used for? I might just be tired but I really can't get the two things to fit together sensibly in my head. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 12:52, 3 September 2012 (CDT)

== Kinda off-topic ==

[[Image:MOHW870.jpg|thumb|none|600px|The 870 is seen in the killfeed, while the player uses a SIG-Sauer P226R.]]
Does this image mean there will be unlimited ammo for sidearms in MP (like in R6V2)?? And there would be no lame knifing? IMHO that would be great. Any other thoughts? [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 15:40, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

:In many of the multiplayer trailers for this game, players are shown killing each other with melee tomahawks, so I'm guessing there is going to be melee weapons. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 16:54, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

How are stealthy kills quote-unquote "lame" anyway? If you can't buddy up and pull security that's your own fault. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 17:01, 17 September 2012 (EDT)
::You knife somebody in the toe and he dies but you shoot him twice in the head with an AR and he is still fine. That is how most military shooters work. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 07:01, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
:::Plus the fact that you can whip the knife out and instantly kill someone in about half a second. Knives in FPS's would be more balanced and realistic if you had to draw them first, would also be good if the knifing was an animation that took a couple of seconds to actually kill the person, to prevent you from killing three guys in about a second before anyone can respond. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
::::Pretty sure you're only talking about COD, because BF3's knife is fine. You're unlikely to get a knife kill other than the stealth takedown. Which are awesome! [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] ([[User talk:Alex T Snow|talk]]) 16:23, 18 September 2012 (EDT)

== Pistol thing? ==

[[File:MoHW Glock Block.jpg|450px|thumb|none]]

What would be this odd looking addition to the back of the pistol? I might have foolishly categorized it as a Glock, dunno generation. The top simply looks confusing.
Pulled from one of the multiplayer trailers.
Edit: finally realized that could be a conversion part for full auto.
--[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 22:54, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

== Unknown Gun ==

Maybe an OTs-14-1A (but it has a weird front sight) or maybe an AKU-94 ?
[[File:MOHW WTF.jpg|500px|thumb|none|]]
:It's an AKU-94 without the handguard fitted. This is a separate part so could be omitted, it just leaves you nowhere to hold it by with your other hand. I wouldn't be surprised if it has a handguard of some sort in the release version of the game, am guessing this is still developmental by the way he is holding it like a standard gun rather than a bullpup. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 18:15, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

==AUG reload==
I think how the player reloads the AUG is not really intentional ,but more of like a mistake such as the M16 reload in Soldier of Fortune:Payback--[[User:DJsputnik|DJsputnik]] ([[User talk:DJsputnik|talk]]) 22:44, 4 October 2012 (EDT)
:As the caption under the pictures says, the ammo used is Point Man's class ability, High Powered Ammunition. When activated, the player does a semi-flashy reload, tapping the mag on the gun, then inserting. This only applies for the special ammo. 
:Interesting though, reloading with (formerly called) Heavy Hitters puts 30 rounds in the gun, the chambered normal round invisibly ejected with a bolt cycle and added back to the normal pool. After using up all of the special ammo, a non-empty reload is done, putting 30 normal rounds in the gun without cycling the bolt. --[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 22:01, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

== All reloads ==

I've noticed since the Node (freddiew and Co.) MoHW video that the shooter/player character retains magazines on non-empty reloads. Very interesting. Didn't know how to add such a tidbit to the main page though. --[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 20:58, 6 October 2012 (EDT)

Does "empty mag but round in chamber" count as non-empty like every other FPS that features multiple reload animations? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 08:03, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

:Have not had the time see enough footage or had the luck to see someone reload on 1 round capacity. Those reloads are most likely counted as non-empty. --[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 22:13, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

:Since EA is doing both single-player and multi-player this year and MoH 2010's SP tracked +1 in the chamber (I still think DICE ''purposely'' did a half-assed job on the MP), I'm confident Warfighter will as well. I don't know about anyone else on this site, but I'll know for sure tomorrow when I get it at midnight. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 07:55, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

I think I need to rephrase. Does "empty mag but round in chamber" get a separate reload animation from non-empty and empty? --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 08:01, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

:One in the chamber is treated as a non-empty reload. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 13:39, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

== AKS-74U ==
Since it uses 7.62x39mm magazines and is, according to the page, even shown as chambered for that round, shouldn't we classify it for what it is---an AKMSU, not an AKS-74U? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:09, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

== TAC-50 ==
The Navy designation for it is Mk 15. Since we're going to be dealing with SEALs using it, would it be apt to refer to it by that designation? A similar standard is applied to the Milkor MGL, which is called by its military designation (M32) when it's shown as used by Marines. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 00:09, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

== Anyone else having accuracy issues with the sniper rifle in mission 2? ==
Is it ''supposed'' to be that inaccurate for some reason? I understand simulating the effects of wind and drop on the projectile, but I can still hit someone dead on with it and half the time they won't even flinch. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 10:23, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

No pun intended, the simulated bullet effect is a hit and miss. I really had to adapt to remember about bullet physics on the fly because I've been so accustomed to games where there is no bullet drop at extreme ranges. It's actually a bit refreshing. I wish the game told me that before hand so I could adjust. When I failed to cover the helo the first time, I was able to learn quick and the reload, I go everybody with one shot. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 13:33, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

Don't get me wrong, it ''is'' a refreshing and welcome change. It's just that there's no way to tell which way the wind is blowing at any one time and there's no set distance that the bullet veers off to. My first shot could be half an inch low and right, while my next one after adjusting could be two inches high and left, all with no warning or indication. Add to that the above-mentioned fact that I can strike a skinny dead on in the head and half the time he won't go down. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 16:01, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

== SCAR-H and PKM ==

Are the SCAR-H and PKM featured in single player? They do not appear on BattleLog as usable weapons in MP. I am thinking of moving the trailer-only weapons to the bottom of the page (as on the ''GR:FS'' page). - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 07:38, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

The SCAR-H does (and unbelievably it actually feels like a ''battle'' rifle this time around), but the PKM doesn't. The only enemy MG I've seen is the PKP. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 09:18, 26 October 2012 (EDT)
:Okay, I moved the PKM to the "Other" section and also removed the M40A3 - it was actually a TAC-300 (my bad). Unrelated to this: I think I saw a Little Bird firing its M134s during the sniping section of the Somalia level. I am not good with helicopters so I am gonna need confirmation on this one. ;) [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 17:33, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

::Actually it ''was'' an M40A3 in early release footage, the rifle in that scene was just replaced with a TAC-300 in the final game. If you compare the two scenes, you can see the stock of the rifle in the pre-release footage was much bulkier than that of the TAC-300 in addition to lacking a detachable box magazine like the TAC has. I'm gonna go ahead and add the M40 to the "Other Weapons" section as a possible cut weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 01:40, 27 October 2012 (EDT)

== Remove M-45 MEU-SOC ==

Should it be removed from the page? I think it should, as it was only seen in one pre-release trailer as a placeholder, and appears no where else. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 13:30, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

I think it's okay to keep in the page, but place in under "Other Weapons" section, or maybe just move it here, to the "discussion". --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] ([[User talk:RaNgeR|talk]]) 13:50, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

Alright, moved it to bottom of page and noted that it no longer appears in-game. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 14:20, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

== Good game? ==

I know this has nothing to do with guns, but I just wanted to hear some opinions from people who've played it. I watched some gameplay and wondered "how the hell do critics give Black Ops an 8/10, but this a 4/10?!" Anybody think it's a good game?--Gunner5

:Don't pay attention to critics, most are tools and probably either paid off (e.g., in the form of free games and whatnot) for these scores or franchise-biased. I think this game is nothing short of fantastic and would definitely recommend it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 19:51, 27 October 2012 (EDT)

:Double up on what Spartan said. I've heard even from CoD fanboys that gunplay is spot on. And that's nice to hear. Campaign may be sorta short and the AI derpy, but I suppose there's the authenticity part that matters. Legit stuff. And IGN has the audacity to say MW3 is "Another year...and an even better Call of Duty," and the singleplayer as "good," with standard linear gameplay and mass gook spawns. I could go on and on. Apparently MoH:W's maps are abysmal and the modes are uninspired. Feed me more bullshit. --[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 20:47, 27 October 2012 (EDT)

: I would give the game a 9/10 overall score. Much better than the last three cod games together. Thank God lots of players are playing MP despite the bad reviews. Got the Limited Edition and it was totally worth it. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 04:19, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

== Weapons not listed? ==

Now, i don't have the game but have long wanted a full weapon list. Can't someone who has the game atleast put up a section for every weapon verified to be in the game. Judging from gameplay videos there should be atleast 10 different weapons not listed on the page here. Also, how do i put my username after the post with this new layout? [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 10:40, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

I only play SP and all the guns I've seen in the game are what's already on the page. If you know of more, feel free to add them. Also, you sign your posts by typing four tildes (~) after it, just like before. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] ([[User talk:Spartan198|talk]]) 20:39, 27 October 2012 (EDT)

:I think 99 percent of the guns is listed. Some mounted/emplaced weapons, grenades, and machine guns (there is actually at least 3 different M249 variants in MP) are not listed. I am gonna add them once I unlock em. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] ([[User talk:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|talk]]) 04:11, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

In several gameplay videos i have seen many other guns. But i can't add them without verifiation. On top of my memory, i have seen; M21, M24, M4A1, AK-47, F2000, P90, SV-98, AT-4, TOZ-194 and more i can't remember right now. Are any of these in the game? [[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] ([[User talk:Z008MJ|talk]]) 10:40, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

Those are all [[Medal of Honor (2010)]] weapons, none of those are in Warfighter AFAIK. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 11:50, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

== G18 Ammo Capacity ==

I am very sad now. The G18 does not track +1 ammo capacity. Can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_NjscAHg9U
Noticed it since the beta, but was hoping it'd be fixed. :( --[[User:Wahsahbi|Wahsahbi]] ([[User talk:Wahsahbi|talk]]) 01:05, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

== Rant Mode On ==

Well, I guess it's nice to see the devs put Product Placement ahead of their desire for realism.

Now that that bit of venting is out of the way, no, I'm not happy with the weapons selection in this game. Not really. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 08:08, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

:I think a lot of the guns are in a realistic place, besides the LaRue's. What weapons do you think don't belong? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 11:05, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
:I think my problem is more with what nations got what weapons. Since I'm pretty sure that MacMillan stuff is only used by SEALs and Canadian Special Forces.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 11:17, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
::Yeah, I can definitely agree with you on that. I was especially disappointed when I saw the G36C used by SASR. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] ([[User talk:SmithandWesson36|talk]]) 11:35, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
::Also a surprising and unexpected lacking of any real Russian firearms for the Spetzgruppa Alpha faction besides the usual 7.62 AK rifle, the short AKS-74U (which is also, puzzlingly enough chambered in 7.62) and the PKP. What surprised me the most was a complete lack of Dragunov variants or any even ''remotely'' appropriate sniper rifle for our beloved Ruskies. Not even a trace of a single TRG-42 which is supplied in limited amounts to Alphas if I'm correct.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] ([[User talk:BeloglaviSup|talk]]) 11:29, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
:::As far as Russian firearms go, I still want my beloved [[MP-443]] PYa handgun. And a SVDS, SVU, AS VAL or VSS would be nice.[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] ([[User talk:ArrowTwoActual|talk]]) 11:54, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
:At the very least I would have liked to see an AI rifle, even if it was just the MK.13 to go with their SEAL focus. I guess I'll wait until I get the game before I pass final judgement, but I'm still not happy about it.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 14:30, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

If I'm not mistaken, can't special forces operators kind of use anything they want? I mean, there are weapons some units prefer, I know that, but I'm pretty sure they can get ANYTHING. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 15:06, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
:They have a wider choice than grunts, but it's not "use whatever they want".[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] ([[User talk:The Wierd It|talk]]) 15:56, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
::Huh. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 17:06, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Medal of Honor: Warfighter

2012-10-28T19:06:30Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Rant Mode On */

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-09-25T14:20:31Z

Jeddostotle7: /* H&K m27 */

'''MAIN PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Only ''officially released'' images will be permitted. Leaked images, even if publicised elsewhere, are not permitted. This rule is not negotiable.'''

'''TALK PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Do not post lists of weapons you hope to see in the game. They will be deleted.'''

== The Newest Joke? ==
Why put up a IMFDB page of this game when it looks clearly like a waste of money

Because I am loking forward to this game, and cheevo hunting. Besides I am the only biotic organism that plays CoD for the SP and not the multi (well, except for split-screening with my girlfriend). Anyways, I like Call of Duty, and I think this will be cool, and I cannot wait to see what new weapons they will have. - [[User:1morey]] May 6, 2012 8:58 AM (EST)

Because we hate you, that's why. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:44, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

:And ''he sucks'' and we hate him. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:30, 9 June 2012 (CDT)

Sorry [[User:1morey|1morey]], but you are not the only "biotic organism" who buy CoD only for the SP campaign XD [[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]

I too like to play CoD single player campaigns. I dabbled a little in MP here and there, but don't really understand what all the fuss is about. If only the developers put in as much time and effort into the SP nowadays, like they used too :( --[[User:Ultimagameboy|Ultimagameboy]] 19:12, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

== XM8? ==
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg

Weapon in the pic looks like a modified XM8 [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks like the hybrid ACR from RE6 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:31, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks to just be like a space gun... It "resembles" a XM8 and an ACR, but looks like the SCAR from Crysis. It's just a future weapon. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:40, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

To be more specific,it appears to be the Malaysian variant of the XM8,the Malaysian variant has no built in scope like on the ones designed for the U.S Army,but a rail instead.however it has extra features of weapons such as the ACR, which Treyarch probably to give their own artistic touch to make it look unique and futuristic.[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

In the description, someone wrote that it is based on the M41A1 pulse rifle from Aliens. How? Why? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:52, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

== Future Warfare ==
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-074340.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070746.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-065949.jpg

The game is set in near future, rumours say it's in 2027. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

That's what we've been needing. More future crap. ~ACE

Call Of Recon: Ghost Ops --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Well, I've given up on the series now that being on top of five grenades when they go off doesn't kill people.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

:Givern how CoD does with real weapons, watching them making up weapons should be eight kinds of hilarious. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:10, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

its been confirmed to be set in the year 2025,i would imagine a mixture of real weapons,and Treyarch-created mashups will be included[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

As long as we get (have) to shoot hundreds of rounds full auto at each quadrupedal robot it will apparently be awesome. I hope bullets have no effect on enemies until they suddenly die also. ~ACE

:I don't know, as long as the robots acknowledge being hit, a linebreaker enemy that stops you getting bogged down in one place can be good. ''Resistance: Fall of Man'' had enemies which would use their superior hitpoints (3+ headshots on normal for grunts with the basic rifles) to advance under fire while firing from the hip, which meant they ''didn't'' have to spam grenades at you constantly to stop you staying in one place (also they had Steelheads with guns that shot through walls to help them with that). It actually made the firefights rather more interesting than the headshot = dead standard. Though they at least reacted to being shot (flinched but kept running), it wasn't like ''STALKER'' where enemies were either alive or dead and wouldn't acknowledge any state in between (which in ''Clear Sky'' where they jacked up Bloodsucker HP ridiculously meant you weren't actually sure you were even hurting them).

:In general enemy variety is a huge weakness for modern shooters, since almost everything is 'man with gun.' If they do this ''right'' it could actually have far more varied firefights. Or they'll just have it invincible until you find the glowing rocket launcher Private Dies In An Inconvenient Place dropped, which seems more likely all things considered. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

::Dual wielding Javelins. ~ACE

== Come On ==

There is NOTHING warranting a page for this yet. All of you fanboys need to drop your cocks and have a little patience. Would any IMFDB mods put up with this for any other page or project with the same amount of leaked content, being 1, maybe 2 usable pictures? No way; this whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If there's nothing concrete worth putting on the main page, stick to the Treyarch forums. It's insane how quickly the COD community jumped onto it on IMFDB. It's fucking preposterous to discuss ONE PICTURE for a WHOLE GAME THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED YET. Please, fanboys, calm down, and don't get ahead of yourselves. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 16:38, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Finally someone who agrees with me. --[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I can't disagree [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:18, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

The game has been officially announced, there are several pictures on CallofDuty.com --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:47, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Plus, a trailer is coming out today [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:29, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Trailer released, and I can already see inclusions in the form of the M249. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 19:21, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Weapon Spots ==

Weapon spots from the trailer that I found in the new trailer: at 0:30 there is a M134 Minigun (future-ized) mounted on a four legged combat drone, 0:43 there is a tank drone that appears to have a Metal Storm weapon mounted on its left (our right), 1:09 there is a future pistol (seems unrelated to any real world firearm), 1:11 there is a future-ized XM8, 1:18 there is an M16 (which model can't tell though length suggest it is a full length barrel and has 20 round magazine), 1:27 there what appears to be an M249 SAW (or M240), 1:31 there is a soldier with a balaclava firing a bullpup short barreled weapon that bears resemblance to the QBZ-95, at 1:31 or 1:32 (very easy to miss) there is a soldier being blown away holding an AK variant and by the looks of the handguard and flash hider it is an AN-94, at 1:34 in horseback solders are armed with WWII bolt action rifles, at 1:36 the technical is armed with a Dshk hmg, 1:44 hard to make out but rider on the right has an AK pattern weapon, likely an AK-47 since it looks like the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, 1:48 unknown shotgun. That's all I found for now. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 21:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:I have an intuition that the M16 might (and I have empathize this, ''might'') be an A1 variant or a faux XM16 judging solely from silhouette of the upper receiver. The SAW apparently has an Mk 48 Mod 1 styled heat shield and handguard but that doesn't really mean anything, considering how the franchise loves to mix and match different variants. Weapon at 1:32, on the other hand, is ''definitely'' an AN-94. At least in aesthetic terms.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:03, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:: Isn't it "Kriss USA" instead of "TDI" now?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 08:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Possibly, but KRISS ALLCAPS TACTICOOL ARMS is a stupid title and they were TDI first. They only changed it because they've belatedly discovered the mil-spec subgun market is a ghost town if you're not an MP5 and they're only ever going to sell Vectors to mall ninjas. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

==Designated Arguing/Complaining Area==
Before this discussion page turns to chaos like all the other CoD talk pages, let's open up a designated complaint zone. I know many people want to offer their negative opinions about the game, so if you don't have any real discussion topics please post in subheadings here. Hopefully this will allow people who want to actually discuss the game rather than arguing or whining to avoid these comments and have an actual discussion.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

===What is this going to be like===
I have looked at the trailer several times. This is how I think the games success is going to be. A: It will be a huge hit and sell millions of copies like all other COD games or B: It is going to be a complete and total disaster and there will never be another COD game made again in our lifetimes. I find from what I learned from the plot line details that has been released that it is going to feature what the first Black Ops did, except that the flashbacks will be set in the 1980's and the present 2025. I am wondering how Treyarch is going to do that. This will be a very curious COD game that I will be wondering about UNTIL it comes out.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 21:58, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

===Wow...===
I'll start off by saying the obvious- this game looks stupid. I mean, why jump from the 60's to the 2020's? I could see the futuristic idea that they were trying for, but this looks like a Ghost Recon rip-off. I have just lost what little respect I had for Treyarch. As more details become availiable, I might change my mind, but first impressions are not good. As with any game, if it is fun I will play it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

I've lost respect for the Call of Duty franchise after Infinity Ward broke up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

After at least one failed Soviet aggression in the late 60s, failed invasion of the Eastcoast US, ''failed'' (third time's the charm, right?) invasion of continental Europe within the last three games alone, you'd think the US at least would just get used to getting attacked on a major scale by this point.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:09, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:Well they have, it's pretty clear from MW2 that Russia tries to nuke the US so often in this universe that they didn't even bother with a counter-launch since that would just encourage them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:11, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I can't believe how generic they managed to make their new take on the series. Evil robots, mechs on four legs and choppers with unnecesserly many features. It's basically the same as every futuristic game. On top of it the game looks awful, name doesn't make sense, it looks more over-the-top than MW3. Could Treyarch have mistaken May 1 for April 1? This either is a joke, or will become one.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 05:46, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

What the hell were Treyarch thinking? I was seriously hoping too see what happened to Hudson, Weaver and Mason in Operation Charybdis and maybe if we would get to see how Price started his career. It is often better to go back to basics than too go forward complications. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
:What made you so sure that Price was going to be in this game?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:45, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:Modern Warfare is set in a different continuity, and they even wanted to spin it off into an entirely separate franchise. The Call of Duty label was stuck on by Activision as a way of marketing it. Price won't be appearing because he doesn't exist. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:From what I've read on CoD wiki and heard, 1/3 of the game will take place in the 80s and the rest in 2025--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 09:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

: @ The Wierd It - the 'intel' at the ending of the final story mission of Black Ops suggest that Mason is being hunted by an SAS team in South Africa lead by a young operative called 'Jonathan' which many people have taken to mean a very young Captain Price [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::I think it's very unlikely that they'll have any crossovers between the WaW/BO and MW universes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:47, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
::I know that. I'm wondering where the leap in logic came that took people from one of the more common first names in the English language to "this is obviously meant to be Price". [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:36, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well, it's positively rational compared to the kind of logical gymnastics that some rumour threads get. "I performed a series of random mathematical actions on this Valve press release and made the number 3! Episode 3 confirmed!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:59, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
The first thing I thought when I saw the trailer was that this game was CoD attempting to piggyback on the whole idea of Metal Gear Solid 4. Then I saw the horse sequences and realized I was actually watching an Uncharted 3 trailer. --[[User:K|K]] 19:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I honestly like the way it's going now. I liked Black Ops better than Modern Warfare because it went to a setting not commonly covered (especially in big-budget titles) and had some more interesting segments than just running through an urban environment shooting dozens of AK-toting terrorists or Russians. I'm interested in seeing how Black Ops II progresses now that they're able to create their own technology (no worries of anachronisms or errors). It's a refreshing change of pace from generic World War II and modern day "realistic" shooters. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

@ The Wierd It - Ok mate, fair enough I might have jumped the gun. But on what we know from the intel in Black Ops and the character of Price in the MW franchise, ("promising SAS solider named Jonathan" also referred to as Price in the french Black Ops) - basing it on that knowledge, see why I jumped the gun? However, they brought Woods back for this one, when we were all sure he was dead, what's too say a very young Price won't be featuring in this game? [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

:I still love COD4, great game, but now I refuse to play anything after it. I did play through MW3's story to see the ending, and the MW series' ''story'' is pretty good, but the 2 and 3's gameplay is soooooo bad. In every single mission except one, you start with a reflex sight on your gun in MW3. The other mission you have a pistol. I'm gonna follow this page just to see how bad they can make it. I find it really funny how Halo and Mass Effect have guns (and tech) that are more realistic than MW2/BO/MW3/BO2. Hell, not just more realistic, Halo and ME's weapons ''actually make sense''. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:23, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

It looks like the US got some help from the Combine with those 4 propeller gunships they have. Maybe we might see an AR1 or a Strider? :D [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:12, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

===My two cents on the matter===
Ok... well, first off, I'll admit that I am a fan of CoD. But from the first glance of this trailer, I think that Activision needs it's old management back, and fire the current management along with Robert Kotick.

Seriously Robert? This is what Black Ops II is going to be? A pseudo-futuristic first person shooter with player-driven choices thrown into the mix?

I was expecting that the next Call of Duty was going to be the inevitable Black Ops II (and if not that, then maybe something different for a change like making the game about a war that many people have forgotten about, like World War I or the Korean War, cause World War II and Vietnam get WAY too much attention). but I was expecting it to dive into details about Black Ops operations in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s when the United States got involved in conflicts during those years AFTER the Vietnam war (a.k.a., Grenada, Panama, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Gulf War I, Bosnian conflicts, etc.). But really, THIS is the best idea that your workers came up with? Some cyberwar between China and the United States?

Ok, from what I've read, there will be some throwbacks to the 1980s in this game, but adding in player-driven choices which affect the outcome of the game is a bad idea. I play Call of Duty for mindless entertainment and for shooting things, not to play over and over for making different moral decisions every time to get all the endings of the game! If I wanted a first person shooter with that theme, I'd go play Fallout 3. (Speaking of which, do you think we're really that stupid to notice that you guys stole "The Vault" name?)
: A video game uses the word "Vault" to refer to a location. Must have been stolen from Fallout, since they invented....the English language? [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

As for the weapons... you guys do realize that MANY of these weapons are either still on the drawing board, in the prototype stages, canceled (*cough* XM8 *cough*), or being tested in LIMITED numbers, and that we might not be seeing ANY of them in any future war by the year 2025... right?

it isn't even an xm8, i don't know how it could be a wrong choice for a gun if the gun itself isn't actually a real concept of any kind, its just a futuristic-looking gun designed by treyarch, and what would firing bobby kotick actually do it wouldn't change any of the games because he doesn't make any desicions regarding them, he worries about the money side e.g. the budget, the advertisement.
also the creators of fallout didn't actually invent the word vault so i don't really know what the pointless rant was for.--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 02:48, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

In the game it's called an M8A1. It's definitely the XM8. It's Treyarch doing what they do. Being creative with things that shouldn't have creativity added. [[User:DJCDavisDubstep|DJCDavisDubstep]] 16:25, 10 July 2012 (PDT)

Well... maybe I might give this game a chance when it comes out. But seriously, if this is what all future Call of Duty games are going to follow from this point onward, then I will stick with the older ones instead. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 22:20, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

Hey, thanks to the video game industry, one would think that there may be a chance that the project will get cancelled like many games before it... unfortunately since the Call Of Duty franchise pops out games like a mother rabbit the future seems bleak...
--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 01:44, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure the game will still have all the mindless shooter nonsense that makes them millions and spawns dozens of poor imitations, but the addition of branching storylines and sandbox gameplay at least makes things more interesting. The Call of Duty formula stagnated with Modern Warfare 2, as it showed that it was little more than repeating the same basic formula with minor changes that add less new content than the average DLC pack. Black Ops at least tried to break from the mold a bit with the helicopter sequences (a throwback to the old games' vehicle segments) and the protagonist not suddenly losing his voice when you look through his eyes. I'm proud of Treyarch for trying to actually do something different and make an interesting game instead of following Infinity Ward and Activision's lead and just making a clone of Black Ops with some new weapons and tweaking the multiplayer. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

== M16A1? ==

Link to image

(403 error)

also the futuristic M4: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120502191412/callofduty/images/5/53/20120502-084241.jpg

The 'futuristic' M4 in the link above appears to be based upon the GR4 G26 airsoft rifle manufactured by Guay & Guay. Shown here for comparison: http://www.titano-shopping.com/immagini/Prodotti/Big/GR4_G26_DST

Yes it looks like that... It's not the first time CoD takes from airosft the looks for the guns

I wouldn't be surprised if they just used that futuristic looking gun for the photoshoot for the poster and it doesn't appear at all in the game itself. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:32, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

All those links are broken. Also I saw the recent trailer and the sillohuotte images of the M16 does look like an A1 from the handguard but the pop up trailer on gametrailers.com called it a classic M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:51, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

:Classic? It was an M4 before there were any M4s. That's a hipster M4 if there ever was one... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:43, 5 May 2012 (CDT)

== Rename ==

Shouldn't the page be renamed to "Call of Duty: Black Ops II". With the Roman numerals, because that's what all official material lists it as. - [[User:1morey]] May 5, 2012 8:59 AM (EST)

:Naw, since that would put it out of order when they inevitably make Black Ops 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:08, 6 May 2012 (CDT)

::A note could be made in the first paragraph though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:36, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

== AK variant during horse scene ==

Recently revealed production images of Black Ops 2 not only show how seriously Treyarch is taking the precise animation of horses but also that the AK variants they are carrying are actually mo-capped TOYS:
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2012/05/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-II-Horse-Motion-Capture-2.jpg

:Ha, that's the most obvious airsoft horse I've ever seen. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:40, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

== Bulldog Assault Rifle ==

Trailer from BO2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr0Z3RsOmlo

looks like the assault rifle from distric 9 use by the bad guys

:Looks like a futuristic QB rifle variant to me.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 06:34, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

::The name "Type 25" has been mentioned. Could that be it?

:::Most likely is. In fact, it almost definitely is, but we can't actually confirm that until the game comes out. Also, remember to sign your posts. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 05:46, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Preview ==

A preview mentions the Type 95 and Keltec KSG by name. Will wait for screens.
http://www.nowgamer.com/xbox-360/xbox-360-previews/1388343/black_ops_2_campaign_eyeson_with_two_levels_protect_potus_singapore.html

Well hopefully it's the real Type 95 and not the Type 97 misnamed [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Black Ops 2 Behind the Scenes E3 trailer ==

The new Behind the Scenes BO2 trailer released at E3 shows a couple of guns, most notably a sniper rifle at 3:18
Link to trailer: http://youtu(dot)be/GElKpJLvKLc
:2:08, what looks like a Galil SAR, 2:41, possible MM1 grenade launcher [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 05:37, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

In another behind the scenes trailer, there's a KRISS Vector.--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 15:03, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== There's a reason the Vector is called a K10 ==

Apparently, at SHOT Show 2011, a newer, improved, slightly more compact variant of the Vector with a telescoping stock was revealed, called the K10.
Here's the source:
:http://www.defensereview.com/kriss-k10-super-v-vector-xsmg-submachine-gun-smg-product-improvedupgraded-multi-caliber-subgun-for-special-operations-forces-sof-and-close-quarters-battle-cqb-applications-shot-show-2011-phot/

It does look slightly different from the Vector, though:
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_1.jpg
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_2.jpg
--[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:45, 6 July 2012 (PST)

== LAPD Shotgun ==

I don't really think that we can call the fact that the LAPD officers are using the KSG incorrect, since the game takes place in the future. Apparently in the time the game takes place, we will have flying, fighting robots, so it's not too hard to imagine that the LAPD could have switched shotguns. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:02, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, that's what I was thinking. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:48, 6 July 2012 (PST)

::Well after talking to some cops, it really depends on the department to say what an officer can have in his car. A lot can get their own personal shotguns in their car after qualifying with it. Not sure about a KSG, but it's possible if approved [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:22, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Yeah, it would probably be even more likely to be in use since the game takes place in the future. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:25, 10 July 2012 (PST)

== The Unknown Shotgun ==

The unknown shotgun is actually the Storm PSR (the ridiculous X-Ray Railgun thing), if you look closely at Harper's vest the white dot is from the scope, and it's also been stated by Treyarch that the Storm PSR has three barrels.... --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 21:20, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

== Gameplay footage ==

Well folks, here's a video from E3 showcasing the extended gameplay of Black Ops 2, and what might be expected in the game when it's released: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTtsn2Srm3E] --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 in segment taking place in the 80's? ==

It seems to me that part of the trailer the AN-94 appears in takes place in one of the 80's segments of the game. I shouldn't be surprised, but seriously, this seems like an even bigger anachronism than usual, even though it's not. Anyone else thinking the same? --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 2:57, 10 July 2012 (PST)

:You never know just because it was seen in the desert doesn't mean its in the 80's segment of the game.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

::That's not what I meant, I just meant if it was part of the main 2025 story line of the game, there probably would have been '''some''' kind of future technology. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 3:14, 10 July 2012 (PST)

Oh yeah, it'll be anachronistic, no doubts there. This is Treyarch, after all. Do you think you'll be seeing anything (non-explosive) from the 20th Century in the future setting? I don't.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:28, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I have no doubt there'll be TONS of anachronisms in the 80's parts. I think the QBZ-97 was in the future part, so that's one thing from the 20th century in the future setting. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:41, 10 July 2012 (PST)

::I did not see it, are you talking about the fictional Type 25, or did i miss it?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:46, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Go on the page, there'll be a QBZ-97, and then it'll say "Type 25" somewhere else on the page. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 5:24, 10 July 2012 (PST)

==SCAR-L :)==

http://k31.kn3.net/D8EA00866.png

Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QP3_8y8uzk

:I'm afraid the picture link doesn't work, but the rifle that appears 1:45 is most definitely a SCAR-H. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:05, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

== IMFDB's Fault ==

Does anyone think that the fact that this game takes place in the future is partly our (IMFDB's users) fault. I bet someone working for Treyarch saw the IMFDB page for Black Ops and how the anachronistic guns are criticized, and thought, "We're anachronistic, are we? Well let's see about being anachronistic when the game takes place over a decade in the future!" --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:46, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

That's.... something to think about for awhile and if they did then either 3arc will be more accurate with the guns or make the guns worst than the first time.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 12:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I don't know why it's such a big deal to everyone, just treat the "game" as a "game" and play it; there are too many over-opinionated comments with the words I DON'T LIKE IT, WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE IT LIKE I WANTED IT!!! WAAAAHHH
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 16:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

To be fair you do know where you are right? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 17:12, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Nah, I highly doubt that anyone at Treyarch or Activision has taken the time to read up about their videogames being featured on this site, and the legit or unnecessary complaints people have made about their past games. IMFDB has been a growing name in the film industry for a while now and this site is often browsed and looked into by those who have made or acted in the films featured on here and many of the administrators (the ones who work in the industry) can vouch for that. But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

You do realize that I meant this as a joke, right? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:07, 21 July 2012 (CDT)

"But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that."

I see where you're getting at, but I want to make a point. I was hoping for a bunch of weapons to be in CoJ 3. And more than a handful of them were in the game (or a variant of the weapon). Just to make this clear, I am an admin for the CoJ Wiki, and we have connections to Techland. And I had posted links to the IMFDB CoJ pages on the fan page for CoJ on Facebook (Which Techland frequents).
I was hoping for a Skorpion, Benelli M4, SW Model 29, FN FAL, M72 LAW, and FN Five-seveN. They were in the game.
I was hoping for a Uzi (Instead, a Mini Uzi), A Sig-Sauer (Instead a SIG Mosquito), Remington 700 ( Instead a Remington M24), MP5 variant (The game had a MP5A2), AR-15 variant (The game had a HK416), Mossberg 500 variant (The game had a Mossberg 500A Field Gun). Now I'm not saying Techland read the page and said "Ph hey, this 1morey guy wants to see these weapons, let's answer his request." That's not what I am saying at all, but I wouldn't doubt they read the page, and used the list as "inspiration". Another user had wanted a Steyr AUG A3. That was a cut weapon.

Anyways, back on topic. I don't doubt some video game companies use this site as inspiration, but if I had to pick one, I would say Infinity Ward, EA, and Treyarch probably don't look at this site at all, I think they just watch a bunch of movies, or see what other games have. - [[User:1morey]] August 7, 2012 3:10 PM (EST)
I mean if this isn't a coincidence, I don't know what is.

== Multiplayer Reveal Trailer ==

The new trailer for the multiplayer of BO2 just went up, showing a plethora of new weapons: -killerkirill, 19:13 GMT, 07/08/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrOpWYsp3L8&feature=g-u-u

:Well, the good thing at least is that the main page will be considerably shorter and easier to maintain. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 14:28, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Taurus Raging Bull/Dan Wesson???, barrett/steyr sniper?/ Mechem NTW?, SRM Arms Model 1212/1216?, Remington MSR? and lots, lots more. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:04, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

This game is going to be worse than Crysis for people coming up with contrived "hybrid" explanations for the guns. That shotgun does look pretty close to a SRM Arms Model 1216 though, even looks like the player is correctly rotating the magazine very 4 shots, never thought I would see that in a game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:25, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

i have played it safe and included the dsr-50 sniper rifle in the page, source= http://mp1st.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Screen-Shot-2012-08-07-at-1.58.00-PM-600x331.png

yellow sniper looks like the Remington MSR, an Ashbury ASW338LM, or an FN SCAR - SSR Mk.20 Mod.0 / Sniper Support Rifle with modifications including bolt action.

--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 23:30, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Looking through screenshots in this article: [url=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/362018/39-black-ops-2-multiplayer-screens-from-the-trailer/?page=1#top_banner] 
-LSAT LMG 
-AN-94 
-QCW-05 known as "Chicom QCB" 
-Kriss K-10 
-H&K XM8 is known as the "M8A1", this is very clearly seen in screencap 17. 
-"Ballista" bolt-action sniper in screencap 18- has an extremely similar first-person appearance to BF3's [[MKEK JNG-90]] 
-FN Mk.48 
-"PDW-5.7" in screencap 12, quite likely a [[P90]] variant, it looks like one, 50 round mag, plus the P90 is a PDW in 5.7 mm. Seen in pic 32 in 3rd person. 
-[[SRM Arms 1200 Series Shotguns|M1216 Shotgun]] 
-Taurus Raging Bull in screencap 12- distinctive sights and red backstrap. 
-Unknown in screencap 20 
-Screencap 25 is possibly also the "Ballista"? Looks similar but too small. 
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 13:13, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

It's the FN Ballista, a new-ish rifle designed to compete with the MSR--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 13:37, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

:Using steel torsion bar action and firing a 7.62mm log? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:51, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

::Thanks Recon42, I hadn't heard of the FN Ballista before. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 16:15, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
::: For future reference: [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF076&gid=FNG005 FNH USA's page on the Ballista].[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:36, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
::: [[:File:FNBallista.jpg|Image uploaded and ready for use.]] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:43, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
This made me remember an interesting thing. I read Treyarch has said there will be no 1980's weapons in multiplayer, but yet the AN-94 is there. Is the information wrong or will the AN-94 not feature in the 80's?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 11:49, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

So, Treyarch is copying BF3 and letting you use iron sights on the sniper rifles, maybe that means they can actually be used to kill people in this one, since long ranged scope rifles were never very practical in the tiny maps of the COD series. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:40, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

even though call of duty: world at war had unscoped sniper rifles and also, Battlefield copied call of duty with ELITE/PREMIUM service and Spec-Ops mode yet this doesn't help anyone. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 15:18, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

I'm not saying that BF doesn't copy COD, it does, I know that and everybody else knows that. I wasn't saying , "BF is better than COD, because BF is original." The only points I was trying to make was that due to the popularity of non-scoped sniper rifles in BF3, 3arc decided to add this feature and that sniper rifle were not useful in COD multiplayer. WAW didn't really have unscoped sniper rifles, they were infantry rifles that you could mount a scope on, it's the equivalent of putting a sniper scope on an assault rifle in a game that takes place in modern times. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:09, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

== Raging Judge model ==

I think the Raging Judge that they are basing their model on based on is this one:
[[File:Taurus Raging Judge XXVII.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Taurus Raging Judge - 28 gauge]]
This is chambered in 28 gauge shotshells (which is 13.97mm or .550in for those wondering) and was unveiled in 2011 but was blocked (for valid reasons in my opinion) by the BATFE so it never entered production. Despite this, the fact that the gun in the game has a five round unfluted cylinder as opposed to the 6 round fluted cylinder on the .454 production model indicates that this was their source material. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:42, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:So, um...Were they trying to beat the Maadi-Griffin in the stupid handgun cartridge arms race? I'm calling it, someone's going to have made a handgun that fires 20mm Hispano by 2020. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::"A Taurus Raging Judge, identifiable by the red stripe along the handle..." Doesn't the [[Taurus Raging Bull]] have the same stripe on the grips? Is there anything else to prove that this is a Raging Judge and not a Raging Bull? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:08, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:::It does also say "Raging Judge" in the bottom right corner of the HUD. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:21, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::::Well, that would do it then. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:24, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Weapons once the game is released ==

Once the game is released, and after a few days, the page is mostly completed, should we mention for the weapons which ones are based on the actual weapons, and which ones are just "futuristic" versions of the weapon. Anyone get what I'm saying.

Like the Chicom QCB, is that really a QCW-05, or is that a futuristic gun modeled after the QCW-05? I figure the TDI Kard is a TDI Kard, because it does't really need mocked up that much, since the real-life weapon looks futuristic already. - [[User:1morey]] August 14, 2012 12:03 PM (EST)

== Weapon selection video ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fuba3mPotE

DSR-50 | SVU | Ballista

fictional M1216 | Saiga 12 | Remington M870 RCS

LSAT | QBB-95 | Mk48

Skorpion EVO A3

KARD | FNP-45 Tactical | Taurus | futurised M93R

M8A1 | SMR (futurised AUGA3?) | futurised Type 95 | SA58 | SIG556 | SCAR-H | AN-94

Milkor MGL | futurised Stinger | handheld GAU-19/A

A-10 | Commanche [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 04:53, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== B23-R Nomenclature ==

Could B23-R stand for " Beretta 2023 Raffica"? It's very similar to other Beretta pistols, so I guess that's a reasonable guess [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:42, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:I don't think so, as to me I think it is a 1911 based pistol. The shaoe of the rear of the slide, the hammer and the trigger look very 1911-ish to me. Also, I just want to point out that the comment about the two ejection ports makes absolutely no sense. First off, I don't think it is a second ejection port, but is simply where the top of the slide has been removed showing the exposed barrel (think the Beretta 92 but with a bridge in front of the ejection area). Secondly, how would having an ejection port in front of another make it possible to eject the cartridges out the other side? The slide would have to travel back further to line the chamber up with this second ejection port for one thing which I can't see being possible. The layout of this gun is pretty standard so I don't think it will be doing anything crazy, and regardless this feature would have absolutely no utility or point in a game.

== M249 SAW and MK48 are the same ==

Look at the gas regulator plug of the so called M249 SAW. It is clearly from an Mk 48. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:17, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== Can we PLEASE change it? ==

Could we please get rid of the two ejection ports bullshit from the B23-R section of the page? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 17:45, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

:If you want to change it, then change it. I doubt anyone is going to argue with you. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:59, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

::Hm, looks like someone already did. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 18:37, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 ==
I like the comment under the pic of the AN-94 reloading that says it has 5.56 rounds in the mag, so it could be a fictional export version. It could be, OR more reasonably, the developers decided to ignore the calibers and modeled the same cartridges in all of the assault rifles' magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:51, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
:It's the later. And even if it happens to be the former, I doubt they would care enough to give an explanation ingame. But they stopped caring about these 'tiny details' a long time ago.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:52, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
::Yeah, it seems they are so many overspeculations on this page, like the how it says the B-23 is possibly a Beretta. Why, because it has the letter B, it doesn't really look like any Beretta design. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:43, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
:::To be honest, in my opinion the 'B23R' doesn't actually resemble, outside of it's name, any real specific pistol. It's just a chimera of different futuristic parts that fulfills the same gameplay niche as the Beretta 93R from the previous tittles.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 15:00, 4 September 2012 (CDT)

== Beta leak ==

I know it can't be used on the main page, but for those who are planning on playing the game and are curious about the weapons, 7 new ones were found in the leaked beta build, [http://videobam.com/RHFxv here's a video of them.] --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] ([[User talk:Ghostdigga|talk]]) 21:20, 18 September 2012 (EDT)

Ahh, the return of select-fire. Missed it from the original COD and the United Offensive expansion. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 07:52, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Text confirms that the Taurus does actually fire the 28 gauge shotgun shells it is meant to. This surprises me, I assumed they just based the model on the wrong image. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:38, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

m27 iar, scar type lmg, and i would say the rpg was airtronic due to this pic:
look at the solider on the left

http://cdn.medialib.oxm.co.uk/screens/screenshot_30711.jpg
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] ([[User talk:Pistolpete|talk]]) 09:47, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

== H&K m27 ==

On the cod wikia i found the m27 i know the hk416 m27 variant so i identified it as the actual m27 no real modification to make it look futuristic their calling it an assault rifle (facepalm) there's a picture on there I don't know to upload pictures on here though
:Eh, if they're using an M27 with a 30-rounder and calling it an AR I wouldn't really call that wrong per se, since the M27 is only a SAW because the USMC is issuing it as one (much like the QJY-88 is issued as a GPMG even though it's actually an LMG). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:00, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
::Yeah, I agree, and most Marines that were issued it are using it as an AR, apparently, because it essentially is. Also, person above Evil Tim, please sign your name by pressing the signature button at the top or putting four of this: ~ after your name. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 10:18, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Call of Duty: Black Ops II

2012-09-25T14:18:39Z

Jeddostotle7: /* H&K m27 */

'''MAIN PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Only ''officially released'' images will be permitted. Leaked images, even if publicised elsewhere, are not permitted. This rule is not negotiable.'''

'''TALK PAGE CONTENT NOTE: Do not post lists of weapons you hope to see in the game. They will be deleted.'''

== The Newest Joke? ==
Why put up a IMFDB page of this game when it looks clearly like a waste of money

Because I am loking forward to this game, and cheevo hunting. Besides I am the only biotic organism that plays CoD for the SP and not the multi (well, except for split-screening with my girlfriend). Anyways, I like Call of Duty, and I think this will be cool, and I cannot wait to see what new weapons they will have. - [[User:1morey]] May 6, 2012 8:58 AM (EST)

Because we hate you, that's why. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:44, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

:And ''he sucks'' and we hate him. :P [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:30, 9 June 2012 (CDT)

Sorry [[User:1morey|1morey]], but you are not the only "biotic organism" who buy CoD only for the SP campaign XD [[User:Lone Soldier|Lone Soldier]]

I too like to play CoD single player campaigns. I dabbled a little in MP here and there, but don't really understand what all the fuss is about. If only the developers put in as much time and effort into the SP nowadays, like they used too :( --[[User:Ultimagameboy|Ultimagameboy]] 19:12, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

== XM8? ==
http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg

Weapon in the pic looks like a modified XM8 [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks like the hybrid ACR from RE6 --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:31, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Looks to just be like a space gun... It "resembles" a XM8 and an ACR, but looks like the SCAR from Crysis. It's just a future weapon. [[User:Halorocka888|Halorocka888]] 16:40, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

To be more specific,it appears to be the Malaysian variant of the XM8,the Malaysian variant has no built in scope like on the ones designed for the U.S Army,but a rail instead.however it has extra features of weapons such as the ACR, which Treyarch probably to give their own artistic touch to make it look unique and futuristic.[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:41, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

In the description, someone wrote that it is based on the M41A1 pulse rifle from Aliens. How? Why? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 21:52, 5 July 2012 (CDT)

== Future Warfare ==
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070805.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-074340.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-070746.jpg
:http://www.charlieintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120501-065949.jpg

The game is set in near future, rumours say it's in 2027. [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 15:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

That's what we've been needing. More future crap. ~ACE

Call Of Recon: Ghost Ops --[[User:DeltaOne|DeltaOne]] 15:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Well, I've given up on the series now that being on top of five grenades when they go off doesn't kill people.[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 16:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

:Givern how CoD does with real weapons, watching them making up weapons should be eight kinds of hilarious. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 22:10, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

its been confirmed to be set in the year 2025,i would imagine a mixture of real weapons,and Treyarch-created mashups will be included[[User:Ziess|Ziess]] 22:28, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

As long as we get (have) to shoot hundreds of rounds full auto at each quadrupedal robot it will apparently be awesome. I hope bullets have no effect on enemies until they suddenly die also. ~ACE

:I don't know, as long as the robots acknowledge being hit, a linebreaker enemy that stops you getting bogged down in one place can be good. ''Resistance: Fall of Man'' had enemies which would use their superior hitpoints (3+ headshots on normal for grunts with the basic rifles) to advance under fire while firing from the hip, which meant they ''didn't'' have to spam grenades at you constantly to stop you staying in one place (also they had Steelheads with guns that shot through walls to help them with that). It actually made the firefights rather more interesting than the headshot = dead standard. Though they at least reacted to being shot (flinched but kept running), it wasn't like ''STALKER'' where enemies were either alive or dead and wouldn't acknowledge any state in between (which in ''Clear Sky'' where they jacked up Bloodsucker HP ridiculously meant you weren't actually sure you were even hurting them).

:In general enemy variety is a huge weakness for modern shooters, since almost everything is 'man with gun.' If they do this ''right'' it could actually have far more varied firefights. Or they'll just have it invincible until you find the glowing rocket launcher Private Dies In An Inconvenient Place dropped, which seems more likely all things considered. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

::Dual wielding Javelins. ~ACE

== Come On ==

There is NOTHING warranting a page for this yet. All of you fanboys need to drop your cocks and have a little patience. Would any IMFDB mods put up with this for any other page or project with the same amount of leaked content, being 1, maybe 2 usable pictures? No way; this whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If there's nothing concrete worth putting on the main page, stick to the Treyarch forums. It's insane how quickly the COD community jumped onto it on IMFDB. It's fucking preposterous to discuss ONE PICTURE for a WHOLE GAME THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED YET. Please, fanboys, calm down, and don't get ahead of yourselves. --[[User:ZeoRanger5|ZeoRanger5]] 16:38, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Finally someone who agrees with me. --[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

I can't disagree [[User:Bristow8411|Bristow8411]] 17:18, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

The game has been officially announced, there are several pictures on CallofDuty.com --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:47, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Plus, a trailer is coming out today [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:29, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

Trailer released, and I can already see inclusions in the form of the M249. --[[User:Jusuchin|Jusuchin]] 19:21, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

== Trailer Weapon Spots ==

Weapon spots from the trailer that I found in the new trailer: at 0:30 there is a M134 Minigun (future-ized) mounted on a four legged combat drone, 0:43 there is a tank drone that appears to have a Metal Storm weapon mounted on its left (our right), 1:09 there is a future pistol (seems unrelated to any real world firearm), 1:11 there is a future-ized XM8, 1:18 there is an M16 (which model can't tell though length suggest it is a full length barrel and has 20 round magazine), 1:27 there what appears to be an M249 SAW (or M240), 1:31 there is a soldier with a balaclava firing a bullpup short barreled weapon that bears resemblance to the QBZ-95, at 1:31 or 1:32 (very easy to miss) there is a soldier being blown away holding an AK variant and by the looks of the handguard and flash hider it is an AN-94, at 1:34 in horseback solders are armed with WWII bolt action rifles, at 1:36 the technical is armed with a Dshk hmg, 1:44 hard to make out but rider on the right has an AK pattern weapon, likely an AK-47 since it looks like the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, 1:48 unknown shotgun. That's all I found for now. --[[User:DaiTaNam|DaiTaNam]] 21:03, 1 May 2012 (CDT)
:I have an intuition that the M16 might (and I have empathize this, ''might'') be an A1 variant or a faux XM16 judging solely from silhouette of the upper receiver. The SAW apparently has an Mk 48 Mod 1 styled heat shield and handguard but that doesn't really mean anything, considering how the franchise loves to mix and match different variants. Weapon at 1:32, on the other hand, is ''definitely'' an AN-94. At least in aesthetic terms.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:03, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:: Isn't it "Kriss USA" instead of "TDI" now?[[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 08:04, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Possibly, but KRISS ALLCAPS TACTICOOL ARMS is a stupid title and they were TDI first. They only changed it because they've belatedly discovered the mil-spec subgun market is a ghost town if you're not an MP5 and they're only ever going to sell Vectors to mall ninjas. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

==Designated Arguing/Complaining Area==
Before this discussion page turns to chaos like all the other CoD talk pages, let's open up a designated complaint zone. I know many people want to offer their negative opinions about the game, so if you don't have any real discussion topics please post in subheadings here. Hopefully this will allow people who want to actually discuss the game rather than arguing or whining to avoid these comments and have an actual discussion.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

===What is this going to be like===
I have looked at the trailer several times. This is how I think the games success is going to be. A: It will be a huge hit and sell millions of copies like all other COD games or B: It is going to be a complete and total disaster and there will never be another COD game made again in our lifetimes. I find from what I learned from the plot line details that has been released that it is going to feature what the first Black Ops did, except that the flashbacks will be set in the 1980's and the present 2025. I am wondering how Treyarch is going to do that. This will be a very curious COD game that I will be wondering about UNTIL it comes out.--[[User:Coltmth|Coltmth]] 21:58, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

===Wow...===
I'll start off by saying the obvious- this game looks stupid. I mean, why jump from the 60's to the 2020's? I could see the futuristic idea that they were trying for, but this looks like a Ghost Recon rip-off. I have just lost what little respect I had for Treyarch. As more details become availiable, I might change my mind, but first impressions are not good. As with any game, if it is fun I will play it.--[[User:--JazzBlackBelt--|--JazzBlackBelt--]] 22:51, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

I've lost respect for the Call of Duty franchise after Infinity Ward broke up [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:35, 1 May 2012 (CDT)

After at least one failed Soviet aggression in the late 60s, failed invasion of the Eastcoast US, ''failed'' (third time's the charm, right?) invasion of continental Europe within the last three games alone, you'd think the US at least would just get used to getting attacked on a major scale by this point.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 01:09, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:Well they have, it's pretty clear from MW2 that Russia tries to nuke the US so often in this universe that they didn't even bother with a counter-launch since that would just encourage them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:11, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I can't believe how generic they managed to make their new take on the series. Evil robots, mechs on four legs and choppers with unnecesserly many features. It's basically the same as every futuristic game. On top of it the game looks awful, name doesn't make sense, it looks more over-the-top than MW3. Could Treyarch have mistaken May 1 for April 1? This either is a joke, or will become one.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 05:46, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

What the hell were Treyarch thinking? I was seriously hoping too see what happened to Hudson, Weaver and Mason in Operation Charybdis and maybe if we would get to see how Price started his career. It is often better to go back to basics than too go forward complications. [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]
:What made you so sure that Price was going to be in this game?[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 08:45, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:Modern Warfare is set in a different continuity, and they even wanted to spin it off into an entirely separate franchise. The Call of Duty label was stuck on by Activision as a way of marketing it. Price won't be appearing because he doesn't exist. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

:From what I've read on CoD wiki and heard, 1/3 of the game will take place in the 80s and the rest in 2025--[[User:Gran28|Gran28]] 09:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

: @ The Wierd It - the 'intel' at the ending of the final story mission of Black Ops suggest that Mason is being hunted by an SAS team in South Africa lead by a young operative called 'Jonathan' which many people have taken to mean a very young Captain Price [[User:Spanner|Spanner]]
::I think it's very unlikely that they'll have any crossovers between the WaW/BO and MW universes. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:47, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
::I know that. I'm wondering where the leap in logic came that took people from one of the more common first names in the English language to "this is obviously meant to be Price". [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 15:36, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
:::Well, it's positively rational compared to the kind of logical gymnastics that some rumour threads get. "I performed a series of random mathematical actions on this Valve press release and made the number 3! Episode 3 confirmed!" [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 15:59, 2 May 2012 (CDT)
The first thing I thought when I saw the trailer was that this game was CoD attempting to piggyback on the whole idea of Metal Gear Solid 4. Then I saw the horse sequences and realized I was actually watching an Uncharted 3 trailer. --[[User:K|K]] 19:51, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

I honestly like the way it's going now. I liked Black Ops better than Modern Warfare because it went to a setting not commonly covered (especially in big-budget titles) and had some more interesting segments than just running through an urban environment shooting dozens of AK-toting terrorists or Russians. I'm interested in seeing how Black Ops II progresses now that they're able to create their own technology (no worries of anachronisms or errors). It's a refreshing change of pace from generic World War II and modern day "realistic" shooters. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 22:22, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

@ The Wierd It - Ok mate, fair enough I might have jumped the gun. But on what we know from the intel in Black Ops and the character of Price in the MW franchise, ("promising SAS solider named Jonathan" also referred to as Price in the french Black Ops) - basing it on that knowledge, see why I jumped the gun? However, they brought Woods back for this one, when we were all sure he was dead, what's too say a very young Price won't be featuring in this game? [[User:Fixer|Fixer]]

:I still love COD4, great game, but now I refuse to play anything after it. I did play through MW3's story to see the ending, and the MW series' ''story'' is pretty good, but the 2 and 3's gameplay is soooooo bad. In every single mission except one, you start with a reflex sight on your gun in MW3. The other mission you have a pistol. I'm gonna follow this page just to see how bad they can make it. I find it really funny how Halo and Mass Effect have guns (and tech) that are more realistic than MW2/BO/MW3/BO2. Hell, not just more realistic, Halo and ME's weapons ''actually make sense''. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 21:23, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

It looks like the US got some help from the Combine with those 4 propeller gunships they have. Maybe we might see an AR1 or a Strider? :D [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 22:12, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

===My two cents on the matter===
Ok... well, first off, I'll admit that I am a fan of CoD. But from the first glance of this trailer, I think that Activision needs it's old management back, and fire the current management along with Robert Kotick.

Seriously Robert? This is what Black Ops II is going to be? A pseudo-futuristic first person shooter with player-driven choices thrown into the mix?

I was expecting that the next Call of Duty was going to be the inevitable Black Ops II (and if not that, then maybe something different for a change like making the game about a war that many people have forgotten about, like World War I or the Korean War, cause World War II and Vietnam get WAY too much attention). but I was expecting it to dive into details about Black Ops operations in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s when the United States got involved in conflicts during those years AFTER the Vietnam war (a.k.a., Grenada, Panama, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Gulf War I, Bosnian conflicts, etc.). But really, THIS is the best idea that your workers came up with? Some cyberwar between China and the United States?

Ok, from what I've read, there will be some throwbacks to the 1980s in this game, but adding in player-driven choices which affect the outcome of the game is a bad idea. I play Call of Duty for mindless entertainment and for shooting things, not to play over and over for making different moral decisions every time to get all the endings of the game! If I wanted a first person shooter with that theme, I'd go play Fallout 3. (Speaking of which, do you think we're really that stupid to notice that you guys stole "The Vault" name?)
: A video game uses the word "Vault" to refer to a location. Must have been stolen from Fallout, since they invented....the English language? [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

As for the weapons... you guys do realize that MANY of these weapons are either still on the drawing board, in the prototype stages, canceled (*cough* XM8 *cough*), or being tested in LIMITED numbers, and that we might not be seeing ANY of them in any future war by the year 2025... right?

it isn't even an xm8, i don't know how it could be a wrong choice for a gun if the gun itself isn't actually a real concept of any kind, its just a futuristic-looking gun designed by treyarch, and what would firing bobby kotick actually do it wouldn't change any of the games because he doesn't make any desicions regarding them, he worries about the money side e.g. the budget, the advertisement.
also the creators of fallout didn't actually invent the word vault so i don't really know what the pointless rant was for.--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 02:48, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

In the game it's called an M8A1. It's definitely the XM8. It's Treyarch doing what they do. Being creative with things that shouldn't have creativity added. [[User:DJCDavisDubstep|DJCDavisDubstep]] 16:25, 10 July 2012 (PDT)

Well... maybe I might give this game a chance when it comes out. But seriously, if this is what all future Call of Duty games are going to follow from this point onward, then I will stick with the older ones instead. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 22:20, 2 May 2012 (CDT)

Hey, thanks to the video game industry, one would think that there may be a chance that the project will get cancelled like many games before it... unfortunately since the Call Of Duty franchise pops out games like a mother rabbit the future seems bleak...
--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 01:44, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure the game will still have all the mindless shooter nonsense that makes them millions and spawns dozens of poor imitations, but the addition of branching storylines and sandbox gameplay at least makes things more interesting. The Call of Duty formula stagnated with Modern Warfare 2, as it showed that it was little more than repeating the same basic formula with minor changes that add less new content than the average DLC pack. Black Ops at least tried to break from the mold a bit with the helicopter sequences (a throwback to the old games' vehicle segments) and the protagonist not suddenly losing his voice when you look through his eyes. I'm proud of Treyarch for trying to actually do something different and make an interesting game instead of following Infinity Ward and Activision's lead and just making a clone of Black Ops with some new weapons and tweaking the multiplayer. [[User:Chitoryu12|Chitoryu12]] 17:51, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

== M16A1? ==

Link to image

(403 error)

also the futuristic M4: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120502191412/callofduty/images/5/53/20120502-084241.jpg

The 'futuristic' M4 in the link above appears to be based upon the GR4 G26 airsoft rifle manufactured by Guay & Guay. Shown here for comparison: http://www.titano-shopping.com/immagini/Prodotti/Big/GR4_G26_DST

Yes it looks like that... It's not the first time CoD takes from airosft the looks for the guns

I wouldn't be surprised if they just used that futuristic looking gun for the photoshoot for the poster and it doesn't appear at all in the game itself. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:32, 3 May 2012 (CDT)

All those links are broken. Also I saw the recent trailer and the sillohuotte images of the M16 does look like an A1 from the handguard but the pop up trailer on gametrailers.com called it a classic M4 [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 23:51, 4 May 2012 (CDT)

:Classic? It was an M4 before there were any M4s. That's a hipster M4 if there ever was one... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 02:43, 5 May 2012 (CDT)

== Rename ==

Shouldn't the page be renamed to "Call of Duty: Black Ops II". With the Roman numerals, because that's what all official material lists it as. - [[User:1morey]] May 5, 2012 8:59 AM (EST)

:Naw, since that would put it out of order when they inevitably make Black Ops 3. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 08:08, 6 May 2012 (CDT)

::A note could be made in the first paragraph though. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 16:36, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

== AK variant during horse scene ==

Recently revealed production images of Black Ops 2 not only show how seriously Treyarch is taking the precise animation of horses but also that the AK variants they are carrying are actually mo-capped TOYS:
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2012/05/Call-of-Duty-Black-Ops-II-Horse-Motion-Capture-2.jpg

:Ha, that's the most obvious airsoft horse I've ever seen. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 18:40, 21 May 2012 (CDT)

== Bulldog Assault Rifle ==

Trailer from BO2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr0Z3RsOmlo

looks like the assault rifle from distric 9 use by the bad guys

:Looks like a futuristic QB rifle variant to me.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 06:34, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

::The name "Type 25" has been mentioned. Could that be it?

:::Most likely is. In fact, it almost definitely is, but we can't actually confirm that until the game comes out. Also, remember to sign your posts. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 05:46, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Preview ==

A preview mentions the Type 95 and Keltec KSG by name. Will wait for screens.
http://www.nowgamer.com/xbox-360/xbox-360-previews/1388343/black_ops_2_campaign_eyeson_with_two_levels_protect_potus_singapore.html

Well hopefully it's the real Type 95 and not the Type 97 misnamed [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 07:20, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== Black Ops 2 Behind the Scenes E3 trailer ==

The new Behind the Scenes BO2 trailer released at E3 shows a couple of guns, most notably a sniper rifle at 3:18
Link to trailer: http://youtu(dot)be/GElKpJLvKLc
:2:08, what looks like a Galil SAR, 2:41, possible MM1 grenade launcher [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 05:37, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

In another behind the scenes trailer, there's a KRISS Vector.--[[User:Mikethepanda|Mikethepanda]] 15:03, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== There's a reason the Vector is called a K10 ==

Apparently, at SHOT Show 2011, a newer, improved, slightly more compact variant of the Vector with a telescoping stock was revealed, called the K10.
Here's the source:
:http://www.defensereview.com/kriss-k10-super-v-vector-xsmg-submachine-gun-smg-product-improvedupgraded-multi-caliber-subgun-for-special-operations-forces-sof-and-close-quarters-battle-cqb-applications-shot-show-2011-phot/

It does look slightly different from the Vector, though:
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_1.jpg
:http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/KRISS_K10_.45ACP_Submachine_Gun_2.jpg
--[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:45, 6 July 2012 (PST)

== LAPD Shotgun ==

I don't really think that we can call the fact that the LAPD officers are using the KSG incorrect, since the game takes place in the future. Apparently in the time the game takes place, we will have flying, fighting robots, so it's not too hard to imagine that the LAPD could have switched shotguns. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 11:02, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, that's what I was thinking. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 9:48, 6 July 2012 (PST)

::Well after talking to some cops, it really depends on the department to say what an officer can have in his car. A lot can get their own personal shotguns in their car after qualifying with it. Not sure about a KSG, but it's possible if approved [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 18:22, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Yeah, it would probably be even more likely to be in use since the game takes place in the future. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:25, 10 July 2012 (PST)

== The Unknown Shotgun ==

The unknown shotgun is actually the Storm PSR (the ridiculous X-Ray Railgun thing), if you look closely at Harper's vest the white dot is from the scope, and it's also been stated by Treyarch that the Storm PSR has three barrels.... --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] 21:20, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

== Gameplay footage ==

Well folks, here's a video from E3 showcasing the extended gameplay of Black Ops 2, and what might be expected in the game when it's released: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTtsn2Srm3E] --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 in segment taking place in the 80's? ==

It seems to me that part of the trailer the AN-94 appears in takes place in one of the 80's segments of the game. I shouldn't be surprised, but seriously, this seems like an even bigger anachronism than usual, even though it's not. Anyone else thinking the same? --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 2:57, 10 July 2012 (PST)

:You never know just because it was seen in the desert doesn't mean its in the 80's segment of the game.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]]

::That's not what I meant, I just meant if it was part of the main 2025 story line of the game, there probably would have been '''some''' kind of future technology. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 3:14, 10 July 2012 (PST)

Oh yeah, it'll be anachronistic, no doubts there. This is Treyarch, after all. Do you think you'll be seeing anything (non-explosive) from the 20th Century in the future setting? I don't.--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:28, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:Yeah, I have no doubt there'll be TONS of anachronisms in the 80's parts. I think the QBZ-97 was in the future part, so that's one thing from the 20th century in the future setting. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 4:41, 10 July 2012 (PST)

::I did not see it, are you talking about the fictional Type 25, or did i miss it?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 18:46, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

:::Go on the page, there'll be a QBZ-97, and then it'll say "Type 25" somewhere else on the page. --[[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]]-- 5:24, 10 July 2012 (PST)

==SCAR-L :)==

http://k31.kn3.net/D8EA00866.png

Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QP3_8y8uzk

:I'm afraid the picture link doesn't work, but the rifle that appears 1:45 is most definitely a SCAR-H. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:05, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

== IMFDB's Fault ==

Does anyone think that the fact that this game takes place in the future is partly our (IMFDB's users) fault. I bet someone working for Treyarch saw the IMFDB page for Black Ops and how the anachronistic guns are criticized, and thought, "We're anachronistic, are we? Well let's see about being anachronistic when the game takes place over a decade in the future!" --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:46, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

That's.... something to think about for awhile and if they did then either 3arc will be more accurate with the guns or make the guns worst than the first time.[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 12:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

I don't know why it's such a big deal to everyone, just treat the "game" as a "game" and play it; there are too many over-opinionated comments with the words I DON'T LIKE IT, WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE IT LIKE I WANTED IT!!! WAAAAHHH
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 16:52, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

To be fair you do know where you are right? [[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 17:12, 18 July 2012 (CDT)

Nah, I highly doubt that anyone at Treyarch or Activision has taken the time to read up about their videogames being featured on this site, and the legit or unnecessary complaints people have made about their past games. IMFDB has been a growing name in the film industry for a while now and this site is often browsed and looked into by those who have made or acted in the films featured on here and many of the administrators (the ones who work in the industry) can vouch for that. But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 18:44, 20 July 2012 (CDT)

You do realize that I meant this as a joke, right? --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 18:07, 21 July 2012 (CDT)

"But for the gaming industry viewing our site? That's kinda hard to tell or to prove because we really don't have any members on here who work in the gaming industry (although I could be wrong) who can vouch for that."

I see where you're getting at, but I want to make a point. I was hoping for a bunch of weapons to be in CoJ 3. And more than a handful of them were in the game (or a variant of the weapon). Just to make this clear, I am an admin for the CoJ Wiki, and we have connections to Techland. And I had posted links to the IMFDB CoJ pages on the fan page for CoJ on Facebook (Which Techland frequents).
I was hoping for a Skorpion, Benelli M4, SW Model 29, FN FAL, M72 LAW, and FN Five-seveN. They were in the game.
I was hoping for a Uzi (Instead, a Mini Uzi), A Sig-Sauer (Instead a SIG Mosquito), Remington 700 ( Instead a Remington M24), MP5 variant (The game had a MP5A2), AR-15 variant (The game had a HK416), Mossberg 500 variant (The game had a Mossberg 500A Field Gun). Now I'm not saying Techland read the page and said "Ph hey, this 1morey guy wants to see these weapons, let's answer his request." That's not what I am saying at all, but I wouldn't doubt they read the page, and used the list as "inspiration". Another user had wanted a Steyr AUG A3. That was a cut weapon.

Anyways, back on topic. I don't doubt some video game companies use this site as inspiration, but if I had to pick one, I would say Infinity Ward, EA, and Treyarch probably don't look at this site at all, I think they just watch a bunch of movies, or see what other games have. - [[User:1morey]] August 7, 2012 3:10 PM (EST)
I mean if this isn't a coincidence, I don't know what is.

== Multiplayer Reveal Trailer ==

The new trailer for the multiplayer of BO2 just went up, showing a plethora of new weapons: -killerkirill, 19:13 GMT, 07/08/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrOpWYsp3L8&feature=g-u-u

:Well, the good thing at least is that the main page will be considerably shorter and easier to maintain. --[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 14:28, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Taurus Raging Bull/Dan Wesson???, barrett/steyr sniper?/ Mechem NTW?, SRM Arms Model 1212/1216?, Remington MSR? and lots, lots more. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 17:04, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

This game is going to be worse than Crysis for people coming up with contrived "hybrid" explanations for the guns. That shotgun does look pretty close to a SRM Arms Model 1216 though, even looks like the player is correctly rotating the magazine very 4 shots, never thought I would see that in a game. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:25, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

i have played it safe and included the dsr-50 sniper rifle in the page, source= http://mp1st.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Screen-Shot-2012-08-07-at-1.58.00-PM-600x331.png

yellow sniper looks like the Remington MSR, an Ashbury ASW338LM, or an FN SCAR - SSR Mk.20 Mod.0 / Sniper Support Rifle with modifications including bolt action.

--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 23:30, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Looking through screenshots in this article: [url=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/362018/39-black-ops-2-multiplayer-screens-from-the-trailer/?page=1#top_banner] 
-LSAT LMG 
-AN-94 
-QCW-05 known as "Chicom QCB" 
-Kriss K-10 
-H&K XM8 is known as the "M8A1", this is very clearly seen in screencap 17. 
-"Ballista" bolt-action sniper in screencap 18- has an extremely similar first-person appearance to BF3's [[MKEK JNG-90]] 
-FN Mk.48 
-"PDW-5.7" in screencap 12, quite likely a [[P90]] variant, it looks like one, 50 round mag, plus the P90 is a PDW in 5.7 mm. Seen in pic 32 in 3rd person. 
-[[SRM Arms 1200 Series Shotguns|M1216 Shotgun]] 
-Taurus Raging Bull in screencap 12- distinctive sights and red backstrap. 
-Unknown in screencap 20 
-Screencap 25 is possibly also the "Ballista"? Looks similar but too small. 
[[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 13:13, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

It's the FN Ballista, a new-ish rifle designed to compete with the MSR--[[User:Recon42|Recon42]] 13:37, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

:Using steel torsion bar action and firing a 7.62mm log? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 13:51, 8 August 2012 (CDT)

::Thanks Recon42, I hadn't heard of the FN Ballista before. [[User:ArrowTwoActual|ArrowTwoActual]] 16:15, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
::: For future reference: [http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF076&gid=FNG005 FNH USA's page on the Ballista].[[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:36, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
::: [[:File:FNBallista.jpg|Image uploaded and ready for use.]] [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 12:43, 9 August 2012 (CDT)
This made me remember an interesting thing. I read Treyarch has said there will be no 1980's weapons in multiplayer, but yet the AN-94 is there. Is the information wrong or will the AN-94 not feature in the 80's?--[[User:Z008MJ|Z008MJ]] 11:49, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

So, Treyarch is copying BF3 and letting you use iron sights on the sniper rifles, maybe that means they can actually be used to kill people in this one, since long ranged scope rifles were never very practical in the tiny maps of the COD series. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:40, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

even though call of duty: world at war had unscoped sniper rifles and also, Battlefield copied call of duty with ELITE/PREMIUM service and Spec-Ops mode yet this doesn't help anyone. :~P --[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] 15:18, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

I'm not saying that BF doesn't copy COD, it does, I know that and everybody else knows that. I wasn't saying , "BF is better than COD, because BF is original." The only points I was trying to make was that due to the popularity of non-scoped sniper rifles in BF3, 3arc decided to add this feature and that sniper rifle were not useful in COD multiplayer. WAW didn't really have unscoped sniper rifles, they were infantry rifles that you could mount a scope on, it's the equivalent of putting a sniper scope on an assault rifle in a game that takes place in modern times. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 21:09, 9 August 2012 (CDT)

== Raging Judge model ==

I think the Raging Judge that they are basing their model on based on is this one:
[[File:Taurus Raging Judge XXVII.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Taurus Raging Judge - 28 gauge]]
This is chambered in 28 gauge shotshells (which is 13.97mm or .550in for those wondering) and was unveiled in 2011 but was blocked (for valid reasons in my opinion) by the BATFE so it never entered production. Despite this, the fact that the gun in the game has a five round unfluted cylinder as opposed to the 6 round fluted cylinder on the .454 production model indicates that this was their source material. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:42, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:So, um...Were they trying to beat the Maadi-Griffin in the stupid handgun cartridge arms race? I'm calling it, someone's going to have made a handgun that fires 20mm Hispano by 2020. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 16:24, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::"A Taurus Raging Judge, identifiable by the red stripe along the handle..." Doesn't the [[Taurus Raging Bull]] have the same stripe on the grips? Is there anything else to prove that this is a Raging Judge and not a Raging Bull? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:08, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
:::It does also say "Raging Judge" in the bottom right corner of the HUD. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:21, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
::::Well, that would do it then. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:24, 13 August 2012 (CDT)

== Weapons once the game is released ==

Once the game is released, and after a few days, the page is mostly completed, should we mention for the weapons which ones are based on the actual weapons, and which ones are just "futuristic" versions of the weapon. Anyone get what I'm saying.

Like the Chicom QCB, is that really a QCW-05, or is that a futuristic gun modeled after the QCW-05? I figure the TDI Kard is a TDI Kard, because it does't really need mocked up that much, since the real-life weapon looks futuristic already. - [[User:1morey]] August 14, 2012 12:03 PM (EST)

== Weapon selection video ==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fuba3mPotE

DSR-50 | SVU | Ballista

fictional M1216 | Saiga 12 | Remington M870 RCS

LSAT | QBB-95 | Mk48

Skorpion EVO A3

KARD | FNP-45 Tactical | Taurus | futurised M93R

M8A1 | SMR (futurised AUGA3?) | futurised Type 95 | SA58 | SIG556 | SCAR-H | AN-94

Milkor MGL | futurised Stinger | handheld GAU-19/A

A-10 | Commanche [[User:Temp89|Temp89]] 04:53, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

== B23-R Nomenclature ==

Could B23-R stand for " Beretta 2023 Raffica"? It's very similar to other Beretta pistols, so I guess that's a reasonable guess [[User:Gonzaga|Gonzaga]] 18:42, 15 August 2012 (CDT)
:I don't think so, as to me I think it is a 1911 based pistol. The shaoe of the rear of the slide, the hammer and the trigger look very 1911-ish to me. Also, I just want to point out that the comment about the two ejection ports makes absolutely no sense. First off, I don't think it is a second ejection port, but is simply where the top of the slide has been removed showing the exposed barrel (think the Beretta 92 but with a bridge in front of the ejection area). Secondly, how would having an ejection port in front of another make it possible to eject the cartridges out the other side? The slide would have to travel back further to line the chamber up with this second ejection port for one thing which I can't see being possible. The layout of this gun is pretty standard so I don't think it will be doing anything crazy, and regardless this feature would have absolutely no utility or point in a game.

== M249 SAW and MK48 are the same ==

Look at the gas regulator plug of the so called M249 SAW. It is clearly from an Mk 48. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 17:17, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== Can we PLEASE change it? ==

Could we please get rid of the two ejection ports bullshit from the B23-R section of the page? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 17:45, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

:If you want to change it, then change it. I doubt anyone is going to argue with you. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 17:59, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

::Hm, looks like someone already did. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 18:37, 16 August 2012 (CDT)

== AN-94 ==
I like the comment under the pic of the AN-94 reloading that says it has 5.56 rounds in the mag, so it could be a fictional export version. It could be, OR more reasonably, the developers decided to ignore the calibers and modeled the same cartridges in all of the assault rifles' magazines. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 12:51, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
:It's the later. And even if it happens to be the former, I doubt they would care enough to give an explanation ingame. But they stopped caring about these 'tiny details' a long time ago.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 13:52, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
::Yeah, it seems they are so many overspeculations on this page, like the how it says the B-23 is possibly a Beretta. Why, because it has the letter B, it doesn't really look like any Beretta design. --[[User:SmithandWesson36|SmithandWesson36]] 14:43, 4 September 2012 (CDT)
:::To be honest, in my opinion the 'B23R' doesn't actually resemble, outside of it's name, any real specific pistol. It's just a chimera of different futuristic parts that fulfills the same gameplay niche as the Beretta 93R from the previous tittles.--[[User:BeloglaviSup|BeloglaviSup]] 15:00, 4 September 2012 (CDT)

== Beta leak ==

I know it can't be used on the main page, but for those who are planning on playing the game and are curious about the weapons, 7 new ones were found in the leaked beta build, [http://videobam.com/RHFxv here's a video of them.] --[[User:Ghostdigga|Ghostdigga]] ([[User talk:Ghostdigga|talk]]) 21:20, 18 September 2012 (EDT)

Ahh, the return of select-fire. Missed it from the original COD and the United Offensive expansion. --[[User:HashiriyaR32|HashiriyaR32]] ([[User talk:HashiriyaR32|talk]]) 07:52, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Text confirms that the Taurus does actually fire the 28 gauge shotgun shells it is meant to. This surprises me, I assumed they just based the model on the wrong image. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 04:38, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

m27 iar, scar type lmg, and i would say the rpg was airtronic due to this pic:
look at the solider on the left

http://cdn.medialib.oxm.co.uk/screens/screenshot_30711.jpg
--[[User:Pistolpete|Pistolpete]] ([[User talk:Pistolpete|talk]]) 09:47, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

== H&K m27 ==

On the cod wikia i found the m27 i know the hk416 m27 variant so i identified it as the actual m27 no real modification to make it look futuristic their calling it an assault rifle (facepalm) there's a picture on there I don't know to upload pictures on here though
:Eh, if they're using an M27 with a 30-rounder and calling it an AR I wouldn't really call that wrong per se, since the M27 is only a SAW because the USMC is issuing it as one (much like the QJY-88 is issued as a GPMG even though it's actually an LMG). [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] ([[User talk:Evil Tim|talk]]) 08:00, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
::Yeah, I agree, abd many Marines are using it as an AR, because it essentially is. Also, person above Evil Tim, please sign your name by pressing the signature button at the top or putting four of this: ~ after your name. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 10:18, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

Para-Ordnance 1911 Series

2012-09-23T04:02:35Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Para-Ordnance LDA */

[[image:Para-Ordnance logo.jpg|thumb|right|350px]]
The '''Para-Ordnance 1911 Series''' consist of all [[M1911 pistol series|1911]] style pistols made by [[Para-Ordnance]].
__TOC__ 
=Standard=
==Para-Ordnance P-14==
[[Image:Para Ordinance P-14 45.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance P-14 - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:ParaOrdnanceP14.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance P-14 Limited (Two Tone) - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Para-sx1445er.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance S14-45 Limited (Stealth Edition) - .45 ACP]]
[[File:Para P14 Limited.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para Ordnance P14 Limited, early model with vertical slide serrations - .45 ACP]]
A full-size, double stack .45 caliber pistol. Famously known as the 14-shot 1911 pistol, double the capacity of the traditional M1911A1.
===Specifications===
(???? - Present)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' .45 ACP

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|40}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|8.5}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|5}}

* '''Capacity:''' 14-round magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Para-Ordnance P-14}}

===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[The Boondock Saints]] ||[[Billy Connolly]] || II Duce || Stainless Steel || 1999
|-
|'' [[Resident Evil: Apocalypse]] || [[Milla Jovovich]] || Alice || Matte Black Finish || 2004
|-
|''[[Transporter 2]]''|| || || ||2005
|-
|''[[La Linea - The Line]]''|| || || ||2009
|-
| ''[[A-Team, The (2010)|The A-Team]]'' || [[Liam Neeson]] || Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith || Limited Stealth Edition || 2010
|-
| ''[[A-Team, The (2010)|The A-Team]]'' || [[Patrick Wilson]] || Lynch || Limited Stealth Edition || 2010
|-
|}

=== Television ===

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[Stargate: Atlantis]] ||[[Joe Flanigan]] || Lt. Col. John Sheppard || Early model Limited with vertical slide serrations || 2004 - 2009
|-
|''[[Human Target]]''||[[Mark Valley]]||Christopher Chance||2010 - 2011
|-
|}

===Anime===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Armitage III]] || Ross Syllabus || Custom grips, sights, magwell || 1994
|-
|}

===Video Games===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Game Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Appears as'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Notation'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|''' Release Date'''
|-
|''[[Global Operations]]||"Para P14"||w/ suppressor and laser aiming module||2002
|-
|''[[Wanted: Weapons of Fate]]''|| || ||2009
|-
|}

 

==Para-Ordnance P-18==
[[Image:Para Ordinance P-18 9mm.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance P-18 - 9x19mm]]
A full size, double stack 9x19mm pistol. Sometimes called the P18.9, which is proper designation, but then again P14.45 and P16.40 are also proper designations, but not required to be said in full every time.
===Specifications===
(???? - Present)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' 9x19mm

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|40}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|8.5}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|5}}

* '''Capacity:''' 18-round magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Para-Ordnance P-18}}
===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Hitman (2007)|Hitman]] ||[[Timothy Olyphant]] || Agent 47 || Stainless Steel w/ Suppressor || 2007
|-
|}
 

==Para G.I. Expert==
[[Image:Para1911G.I..jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para G.I. Expert - .45 ACP]]
===Specifications===
(???? - Present)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' .45 ACP

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|39}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|8.5}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|5}}

* '''Capacity:''' 8-round magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Para G.I. Expert}}

===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Normal Life]]'' || [[Luke Perry]] || Chris Anderson || || 1996
|-
| ''[[Normal Life]]'' || [[Ashley Judd]] || Pam Anderson || || 1996
|-
|''[[Transformers]] || [[Josh Duhamel]] || Cpt. William Lennox || || 2007
|-
|''[[Red (2010)|Red]] || [[Bruce Willis]] || Frank Moses || ambidextrous safety || 2010
|-
|}
 

==Para-Ordnance LDA==
[[Image:Para Ordinance LDA hammer.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance LDA w/ exposed hammer - .45 ACP]]
[[Image:Para Ordinance LDA hammerless.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance LDA w/ shaved flat hammer - .45 ACP]]
Similar to the P-14, the Para Ordnance LDA (Light Double Action) is a full size, double stack .45 caliber, holding 14 rounds. Unlike the P-14 or any other 1911 before though, it is outfitted with a double action trigger. They are built as double/singles with exposed hammers and double action only models with shaved down flat hammers.
===Specifications===
(???? - Present)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' .45 ACP

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|40}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|8.5}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|5}}

* '''Capacity:''' 14-round magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Para-Ordnance LDA}}
===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Boarding Gate]]''||[[Alex Descas]]||Andrew || ||2007
|-
|''[[Postal]]''||[[Jackie Tohn]]||Faith || ||2007
|-
|''[[Hitman (2007)|Hitman]] ||[[Timothy Olyphant]] || Agent 47 || Stainless Steel || 2007
|-
|''[[Transporter 3]]''||[[Robert Knepper]]|Johnson|| ||2008
|-
|''[[The Boondock Saints II: All Saints Day]] || [[Clifton Collins, Jr.]] || Romeo || Custom finish w/ suppressor || 2009
|-
|}
 

==Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac==
[[Image:Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac.JPG|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac stainless steel - .45 ACP.]]
===Specifications===
(???? - Present)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9x19mm

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|40}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|8.5}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|5}}

* '''Capacity:''' 14-round magazine (.45 ACP), 16 (.40 S&W, 9x19mm)

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Para-Ordnance Nite-Tac}}
===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Resident Evil: Extinction]]'' || [[Milla Jovovich]] || Alice || Stainless Steel finish, often used akimbo ||2007
|-
|''[[Shoot 'Em Up]]'' || [[Clive Owen]] || Mr. Smith || ||2007
|-
|''[[Legion]]'' || [[Tyrese Gibson]] || Kyle || Stainless Steel finish ||2010
|-
|''[[Legion]]'' || [[Willa Holland]] || Audrey || Stainless Steel finish ||2010
|-
| ''[[In Time]]'' || [[Justin Timberlake]] || Will Salas || Stainless steel finish || 2011
|-
| ''[[In Time]]'' || [[Amanda Seyfried]] || Sylvia Weis || Stainless Steel finish || 2011
|-
|}
=== Television ===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Show Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note / Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="100"|'''Air Date'''
|-
|''[[Hawaii Five-0 (2010) - Season 1]]''||[[Patrick Gallagher]]||Carlos Bagoyo||"Nalowale"||2010
|-
|''[[Chuck - Season 5]]''|| || ||"Chuck Versus The Zoom" (S5E01)||2011 -2012
|-
|''[[Falling Skies - Season 1]]''||[[Noah Wyle]] ||Tom Mason || ||2011
|-
|}
 
=Compact=
==Para-Ordnance P-13==
[[Image:Para Ordinance P-13 45.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance P-13 - .45 ACP]]
A compact, double stack .45 caliber pistol.
===Specifications===
(1994 - ????)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' .45 ACP

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|36}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|7.75}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|4.25}}

* '''Capacity:''' 14-round magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Para-Ordnance P-13}}

===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Copycat]]''||[[Holly Hunter]]||Det M.J. Monahan|| ||1995
|-
|''[[Romeo & Juliet]] ||[[Leonardo DiCaprio]] || Romeo || Stainless Steel || 1996
|-
|''[[Art of War, The|The Art of War]]|| ||Assassin|| ||2000
|-
|''[[Adventures of Pluto Nash, The|The Adventures of Pluto Nash]]''||[[Randy Quaid]]||Bruno||Heavily modified|| 2002
|-
|''[[Assault on Precinct 13 (2005)|Assault on Precinct 13]] ||[[Ethan Hawke]] || Sgt. Jake Roenick || Stainless Steel || 2005
|-
|''[[Sentinel, The|The Sentinel]]''|| ||Assassin || suppressed||2006
|-
|}
 
==Para-Ordnance LDA Companion==
[[File:Para Ordnance LDA Companion.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance LDA Companion - .45 ACP]]
The Para Ordnance LDA (Light Double Action) companion is a compact version of the [[Para-Ordnance LDA]].
===Specifications===
(???? - ????)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' .45 ACP

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|32}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|7.1}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|3.5}}

* '''Capacity:''' 7-round magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Para-Ordnance LDA Companion}}
===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
| ''[[Today You Die]]'' || Brett Rice || Taggert || || 2005
|-
| ''[[Today You Die]]'' || Lawrence Turner || Garret || || 2005
|-
|}
===Television===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Episode'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[NCIS - Season 2]]''||[[Michael Weatherly]]||Tony DiNozzo||"Chained"||2004
|-
|''[[CSI: NY - Season 7|CSI: NY]]''||[[Lymari Nadal]]||Hazel Ortega||"Sangre por Sangre" (S07E04)||2004-Present
|-
|}
 

=Sub-Compact=
==Para-Ordnance P-10==
[[Image:Para-OrdnanceP-10.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance P-10 - .45 ACP]]
A sub-compact, double stack .45 caliber pocket 1911 that holds 10 rounds.

===Specifications===
(1996 - ????)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' .45 ACP

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|0}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|0}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|0}}

* '''Capacity:''' 10-round magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----

{{Gun Title|Para-Ordnance P-10}}

===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[The Boondock Saints]] ||[[Billy Connolly]] || Il Duce || Matte Black Finish || 1999
|-
|''[[Hostage (2005)|Hostage]] ||[[Ben Foster]] || Mars || Stainless Steel || 2005
|-
|''[[XXX: State of the Union]]''|| || || ||2005
|-
|''[[The Boondock Saints II: All Saints Day]] ||[[Billy Connolly]] || Il Duce || Matte Black Finish || 2009
|-
|}
 

==Para-Ordnance P-12==
[[Image:Para Ordinance P-12 45.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance P-12 - .45 ACP]]
A sub-compact, double stack .45 caliber pocket 1911.

===Specifications===
(1992 - ????)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' .45 ACP

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|34}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|0}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|3.5}}

* '''Capacity:''' 12-round magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Para-Ordnance P-12}}
===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Vares: Private Eye]]''||[[Minna Turunen]]||Ifigenia Mustanen || ||2004
|-
|}
 
==Para-Ordnance Warthog==
[[Image:PANite-Hawg.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Para-Ordnance Warthog - .45 ACP.]]
===Specifications===
(1992 - ????)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' .45 ACP

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|24}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|6.5}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|3}}

* '''Capacity:''' 10-round magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Para-Ordnance Warthog}}
===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="280"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="170"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="200"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Max Payne (2008)|Max Payne]] || [[Mila Kunis]] || Mona Sax || Suppressed || 2008
|-
|''[[Shoot 'Em Up]] || [[Paul Giamatti]] || Karl Hertz || ||2007
|-
|''[[Shoot 'Em Up]] || [[Clive Owen]] ||Smith || ||2007
|-
| ''[[District 13: Ultimatum]]'' ||[[Daniel Duval]] || Walther Gassman || || 2009
|-
|}
 

==Para-Ordnance Carry==
[[Image:Para645LDA.jpg|thumb|right|351px|Para-Ordnance Carry - .45 ACP]]
The Para Ordnance Carry is also known as the "Para-Ordnanace 6.45".
===Specifications===
(???? - Present)

* '''Type:''' Pistol

* '''Caliber:''' .45 ACP

* '''Weight:''' {{convert|oz|30}}

* '''Length:''' {{convert|in|6.5}}

* '''Barrel length:''' {{convert|in|3}}

* '''Capacity:''' 6-round magazine

* '''Fire Modes:''' Semi-Auto

-----
{{Gun Title|Para-Ordnance Carry}}
===Film===
{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 95%;" border="1" style="border: 1px solid #D0E7FF; background-color:#ffffff; text-align:left; font-size: 95%"
|-bgcolor=#D0E7FF
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="250"|'''Title'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Actor'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Character'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="150"|'''Note'''
!align=center bgcolor=#D0E7FF width="50"|'''Date'''
|-
|''[[Assault on Precinct 13 (2005)|Assault on Precinct 13]]|| || || ||2005
|-
| ''[[The Boondock Saints II: All Saints Day]]'' || [[Julie Benz]] || Eunice Bloom || || 2009
|-
|}
 
=See Also=
{{1911}}

[[Category:Gun]]
[[Category:Pistol]]

Talk:End of Watch

2012-09-16T16:50:19Z

Jeddostotle7: /* 92? */

== Glock 22 ==

Just FYI for anyone that is wondering, I ID'd the Glocks as 22s from a ''Total Film'' article which had a closeup shot of the side of the pistol showing the slide markings. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:21, 2 August 2012 (CDT)

==DEA Weapons?==

Saw a trailer for this earlier, and saw a DEA Agent armed with some sort of [[M16 rifle series|AR]]-type carbine. Anyone think they can ID it for the page? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] ([[User talk:Orca1 9904|talk]]) 09:51, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

Can't see it from all the trailers I've seen. Guess we'll have to wait for the movie to come out. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] ([[User talk:Excalibur01|talk]]) 12:07, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

I think that literally all you see of it in the trailer is the fact that it has a Crane stock. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:34, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

== 92? ==

Saw this in another trailer

[[File:Endofwatch92.jpg|thumb|600px|none|]]

Can't be 100% on whether the specific model is correct without seeing more of the gun, but think it is actually a [[Smith & Wesson 39]]. Either way, I think it is a S&W auto rather than a Beretta. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] ([[User talk:Commando552|talk]]) 12:45, 16 September 2012 (EDT)
:That's definitely some kind of Smith & Wesson auto. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] ([[User talk:Jeddostotle7|talk]]) 12:50, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

User talk:Evil Tim

2012-09-04T14:08:00Z

Jeddostotle7: /* "Personal Attack" on Rockwolf66 */

''Earlier discussions: [[User Talk:Evil Tim/Archive 1]]''

== What are the rules ==

Sorry to drag you into this; you're simply an admin whose talk page isn't locked. Simple question: what on earth happened here:

http://www.imfdb.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mutant_Chronicles&action=history

My notes on the talk page for the were a genuine and good-faith attempt to contribute and they were deleted without comment. I presume I've offended some obscure house rule of yours, but regardless, it's a pretty arrogant and unilateral thing to do on the part of MoviePropMaster2008, and hardly the way to encourage people to get involved.

== Gun Brand Pages ==

Yo. So now that at least 2 admins have contributed to the new "Gun Brand Pages" is it safe to say the idea is sticking? I want to keep working on these but I dont want to spend all this time just to have them deleted. I'm still new to this site so whats the procedure for getting this approved by the powers that be? Happy holidays, [[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 08:06, 24 December 2011 (CST)
:Thanks for your help with the [[Heckler & Koch]] page. Any feedback? You like the format? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:46, 25 December 2011 (CST)

== Kampfpistole ==

Thanks for your remarks, they make perfect sense. I did not check my e-mail in the last few minutes so I was totally unaware that somebody else (you) was working on the same page. This way we can keep eachother busy, right? My apologies for driving you crazy!

Reason that I wanted to rename 'Walther Kampfpistole' to a more generic 'Kampfpistole' is that today I read an about the history of this gun. Originally a flare pistol ("Heeresmodell 1934"), from 1943 onwards it was produced by both Walther and Erma as ‘Kamppistole’ (no further numeric nomination) having a big 'Z' on the side indicating that it had 'Zuege' (German for grooves) so that small explosive charges could be fired more accurately. The article did not indicate an original designing manufacturer so I figured removing ‘Walther’ would be the right thing to do. If you say that Walther is indeed the company where it all started, then I can only agree to keep matters as they are.

As for the LP-42, I see what you mean. Problem is that ‘Kampfpistole’ is actually a very generic name simply meaning ‘battle pistol’ (just like ‘assault rifle’ may apply to AK-47 and M16 alike). In this case, both guns are correctly referred to as ‘Kampfpistole’ but they are of completely different design. As such, I would suggest to remove the ‘Kampfpistole Z’ image from the LP-42 page, leave matters as they are and not merge, wouldn’t you agree?

By the way, what do you mean by “please don't edit war, it doesn't help”? I am not aware I have been changing anything else today than the Kampfpistole. Take care, let me know what you think and Merry Christmas, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:36, 24 December 2011 (CST)

:Good to see your remarks, be my guest to make changes; I will stay away from the subject for a few days hahaha Not sure of you are aware, but 'Leuchtpistole' is yet another generic nomination. It's German for 'Flare Pistol' so I think it would not be correct to put all 'Leuchtpistols' on one page, not in the least because the designs are very different. Take care, --[[User:PeeWee055|PeeWee055]] 10:58, 24 December 2011 (CST)

==Spammer==
Since you are one of the most active admins on this site, here is a spammer I consider banning: [[User:Grishacka1929|Grishacka1929]]. Highlighted in blue is his [[Lifetime asks, contends actual...|contribution]]. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 18:52, 24 December 2011 (CST)

==This guys is crazy==
He's a raving asshat. He's another Liam, save for the fact he does know his 1911s. But he's also being a jerk. Okay, so M1911 is the MILITARY designation, the Colt Govt. Model is the company's name for the pistols they sold to the public. M1911 is used by a lot of people as a generic description for that type of pistol. When I say Commercial M1911, I mean a commercial version of the M1911. There is nothing actually erroneous about that description. But think about it. People KNOW the difference between the M1911 and the M1911A1, they know that there were improvements made between the wars. Just calling them the Govt Model doesn't help people to ultimately get to know the difference. Boy, I sure attract a lot of guys who hate on me. This guy needs anger management. Now if we need to update the descriptions, we can. On his conduct, you were right. His rage makes him an unacceptable element on IMFDB. Doesn't matter how much he knows. If he becomes that abusive that quickly, then he is not the personality type that moves IMFDB forward. Thanks for the note. I think I (we as in you're a mod too) need to come up with a code of conduct that warns people to be polite. There are sites out there that are so deathly afraid of offending someone's sensibilities or their freedom of speech, that they are often held hostage by people who promote bad behavior. We welcome corrections when they are done in the right way. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:20, 25 December 2011 (CST)

==Se7en==
Sorry, but this page is really kind of ruined when the actor's name is mentioned. It's not really vital on this page to know who the actor was that used the weapon is on this page as much as what character used it. I understand that you disagree with a lot of edits that a particular user makes, but I'll be on the case to let the user know if the edits go overboard. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 04:30, 25 December 2011 (CST)

==Kampfpistole Z==
[[Talk:LP-42_Flare_Pistol|Any objections?]] Sounds reasonable. (I hadn't really been following the Kampfpistole saga, I sort of just stumbled into it.) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 16:08, 27 December 2011 (CST)

== Salt featured article ==

Can you change the [[Salt]] entry on the featured article template from a SIG SG553 to a P556 SWAT with a SG550 lower please, as it is locked to me. I recently changed it on the Salt page, but featured article just came up and noticed it was now wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:04, 29 December 2011 (CST)

== Dead links ==

Hey man, I've been working on converting a number of pages from the list format over to a wikitable. I've noticed that there are some cases where a movie is listed, but there is no page for that movie. For example, if you look at the [[M1911A1]], about halfway down the Films section [[Nowhere to Run]] (1993) is listed, but there is no page for it. Should it be removed when I convert it to a table?

(As a side note, I'm not actually editing the M1911 page, that was just the quickest example I could find.) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:52, 4 January 2012 (CST)

:Gotcha. That's super helpful! Thanks.--[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 23:00, 4 January 2012 (CST)

== Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 2009 ==

Yeah, did some reseach, this game is available in Europe, bt it is under a different name (Same game, different name), it is called "Cabela's Dangerous Adventures". And it is available for the PS2, PS3, Wii, and Xbox 360 (The page is for the Xbox/PS3 version). Don't know if you have an Xbox or a PS3, so that is up to you, and it is dirt cheap by now. - [[User:1morey]] January 15, 2012 12:40 PM (EST)

== Copyrights ==

Hey man. I was just updating a page and I noted that the "copyrights" link at the bottom that shows up any time you edit a page is now red. When I clicked on it I noticed that you deleted the page. Just wanted to make sure you were aware that every time you edit a page or a discussion post, a link to that page shows up on the bottom. Any issue with me putting up a redirect on the old Copyright page that takes you to the "General disclaimer" page? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:18, 16 January 2012 (CST)

==Copyright page==
There's still time... (Seriously though, is there any legal reason why TOS's and disclaimers have to be a solid block of text? During my newspaper days, we avoided solid blocks of text whenever possible and cringed whenever we saw them in other papers. It's just telling readers "Don't read this.") --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 12:36, 16 January 2012 (CST)

== Manufacturer Template ==

I created a template for the manufacturer pages ([[Manufacturer Template]]). I am going to add a link to it from the <nowiki>[[Category:Manufacturer]]</nowiki> page. I would love any input from you and other admins on it. I want to make it as straight forward as possible. Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:36, 19 January 2012 (CST)

==GLOCK==
GLOCK (in all caps) is the official name of the company as stated on their website. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 06:31, 21 January 2012 (CST)

== Re: NSV ==

Hi. Thanks for the info. It is strange though, why would KBP have an image of the Kord on their site, which is made by Degtyarev? --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:27, 22 January 2012 (CST)
:I am totally confused now... >< Please delete the pic then, I reupload it with a correct name if and when I will make a page for the Degtyarev compnay. Thanks. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:56, 22 January 2012 (CST)

no

==Idontthinksotim==
I don't this is actually directed to you. It's a catchphrase from the American series ''Home Improvement''. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 04:41, 21 February 2012 (CST)

== Top Shot - Season 3 ==

Hey man. I saw your edit on [[Top Shot - Season 3]]. While I get what your saying that revolvers technically are pistols... That distinction isn't made elsewhere on the site. For example, the [[NCIS]] and [[Burn Notice]] pages, some of the most popular on the site, list '''Pistols''' and '''Revolvers'''. It seems like an unnecessary distinction to make... I respect my elders and know you are an admin, I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest or anything but it just seems unnecessary to me, particularly since that isn't the way it is done elsewhere on the site. Thoughts? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:44, 23 February 2012 (CST)
:IMHO, it seems like '''Pistols''' and '''Revolvers''' fall under the overall heading of '''Handguns'''... "When distinguished as a subset of handguns, a pistol is a handgun with a chamber that is integral with the barrel, as opposed to a revolver, wherein the chamber is separate from the barrel as a revolving cylinder." Webster gives a similar definition. I take back what I said previously. Based on a little more research it seems that a "pistol" always refers to a Handgun where the chamber is integrated in the barrel. For example, a [[Derringer]] would be a pistol despite not being semi-auto. Any handgun with a rotating cylinder would be a revolver and they would all fall under the overall category of '''Handguns'''. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:48, 23 February 2012 (CST)
::Thats actually really interesting! Never knew you guys defined it differently over there. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:24, 24 February 2012 (CST)

== SOCOM 4 ==

So I'm in the middle of leaving a message for Commandoninja137 (the guy who created the SOCOM 4 page, if were calling 'that' a page...) warning him that the page was about to be deleted because of his lack of effort. I had JUST added the ''nuke'' tag to the page right before i posted the message on his discussion page. When i posted it with the <nowiki>[[SOCOM 4]]</nowiki> tag, the link came up in red. I'm thinking "huh, I musta mispelled it"... but no. You beat me to the punch and got rid of the page literally seconds after I nuked it. GOOD MANNNN!!! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 15:29, 25 February 2012 (CST)
:I'm kind of surprised the page lasted as long as it did. I wanted to just delete the stuff copied from Wikipedia, but then the page would be completely empty and would look even worse. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:45, 25 February 2012 (CST)
::Yes, I know. I grew suspicious because it was a little too... nice. I cleaned up and consolidated the dead links a few months back, and I don't think there's a single SOCOM game here that could be considered complete. I know they're console only, but still...

== DVD Screenshots ==

I mostly have DVD and the Blue-Ray I have is a Blue-Ray/DVD combo pack so I'm set. What I'm wondering though is can you get screencaps from things like Hulu and Netflix? --[[User:Yo dawg 111|Yo dawg 111]] 09:29, 26 February 2012 (CST)

== Re: G36C ==

It indeed looks similar, although the nomenclature appears to be different. Anyways, I will add it and if someone can find a better match, he will change it. Thanks. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:52, 27 February 2012 (CST)

== Masterkey in Homefront ==

Hi. Please change the Masterkey's gun image on the [[Homefront]] page to this one, as this has a slightly better quality, and it is visible that the rifle is actually a KAC SR-16, not a Colt M4.
[[Image:KAC Masterkey.jpg|thumb|none|300px|Masterkey shotgun mounted on a KAC SR-16 rifle - 12 Gauge]]
Thank you. --[[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:55, 25 March 2012 (CDT)

== Grenades ==

DAMITTTTTT. Sorry about that mate. I will be more careful. Frankly I didn't know there was such thing as an Airsoft grenade... Thanks for alerting me to the mistake. :-)

While I'm writing to ya, I might as well mention the [[AK Gallery]]. I totally get what you are saying about guns like the Dragunov and will 100% defer to your judgment. I felt like it was worth putting them on the page since they look similar but if you don't think they belong, I totally understand. It's all about what will be most useful in identifying the guns. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:23, 27 March 2012 (CDT)

== Doom Nuke tag ==
I put the nuke tag due to this subsection of the rules.
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Rules,_Standards_and_Principles#Anime:_Rules_.26_Restrictions
Also the page was previously deleted on the same grounds.
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 23:42, 30 March 2012 (CDT)

== The Dark Knight ==
A) Seriously? You've never seen ''[[The Dark Knight]]''? B) Yes, that is a bigger spoiler, I'd tell you more, but I don't want to spoil anything for you, C) Come on, seriously? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 02:11, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

::Which is the reason why I removed the reference in the page. That particular user who wrote those captions constantly gives away important plot points for no good reason. The user has been warned. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 03:19, 5 April 2012 (CDT)

== This is Glock17gen4, why was I blocked? ==

I have done nothing wrong, and you blocked me and reverted my edits. Here's the reason you left: "(Abusing multiple accounts: Hey there Burt, you're still banned, go away.)" My name isn't Burt, it's Danny. I tryed to use the Glock17gen4 account to contact you about this but it wouldnt allow me to leave a message on your talk page, I would like the block reverted please, as I dont know who this "Burt" is and have done nothing wrong. I really think you have me confused with someone else...PS: do you have email we can discuss this on? [[User:SaferSephiroth|SaferSephiroth]] 20:40, 6 April 2012 (CDT)

== What's all this then? ==

http://www.imfdb.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bunni&redirect=no#I_need_you_or_another_admins_help.2C_my_other_account_was_blocked_wrongfully. Is this the usual suspect? [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 17:19, 7 April 2012 (CDT)

== I am not this Burt Reynolds Mustache or Person of Interest guy, please quit blocking me! ==

Dont you check for IPs before you make such decisions? I am not this character you think I am. Please unblock me! The only reason I changed the gun on the PD page is I was going off of what the GE 007 page said. If that wasn't right then I am sorry, I did not know. I just know all the classic guns in PD are based off Goldeneye 007's guns. I was trying to keep the page accurate, is there anything wrong with that? [[User:RugerLord|RugerLord]] 14:25, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

ET, do whatever you think is best. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 14:40, 8 April 2012 (CDT)

== FlaK ==

Very sorry. I've heard of what you're talking about, but thought it was abbreviated differently.

== Read the rest on that bunni guys page ==

Hey listen, I'm sorry about messing up your page, but seriously dude. You didnt listen to me when I was nice, and I'm sorry about Rockwolf's page too. I have no issue with anyone on this site except you because you keep wrongfully banning me after I helped out. I contacted other admins and the sites owner about this. And you still wouldnt give me a fair chance, so yes, I'm human, I went off on you because I had had enough. I like guns and Goldeneye, I really wanna help with this site, but if I keep being harassed, then how can I do that? PS: I also didnt take to kindly to you and your friend refering to Irish people as "Liams". I'm Irish, and that offends me. [[User:ColdSteel|ColdSteel]] 20:48, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

== Ok done ==

It wont allow me to change on the Goldeneye 007 main page but I put the upload on the Walther PP series page and the Goldeneye talk page, it's a genuine .32 ACP PPK the same as Bond uses, and I think you'll like the pic quality alot. [[User:ColdSteel|ColdSteel]] 21:21, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

== Blocked User ==
The poster was obnoxious and irritating. I just felt like if he comes back he doesn't need to get the change to be an jackass again. Meant to block him earlier, but then I forgot. --[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 13:59, 11 April 2012 (CDT)

== Ellipses ==

You're right, there's no reason to correct them, but is there a reason I shouldn't? Seriously, if there's a reason, I'll stop. --[[User:Cheywoodward2|Cheywoodward2]] 20:32, 12 April 2012 (CDT)
:Alright, I will stop be such so pedantic about my ellipses. I may forget once or twice. If I end up doing so you my have my apologies. Also, your writing style makes you seem like a very pleasant and knowledgeable person.

== Re: Trolling ==

The whole argument of the section didn't have anything to do with improving the page in question. Yet I'm being the target of moderation. How more unfair can it get? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:25, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

:That would be a fair argument if the 'not-forum' rule was enforced and the only thing one could find on Talk Pages is weapons and accessories identification and nothing else. But that's just not true. And a simple commentary among many others won't suddenly cause IMFDB to collapse. --Masterius 09:37, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

::I did not want to go into the whole political debate on who's right and who's wrong. Are you sure there were no points that could have gotten a rise out of me? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:45, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

OK, OK, Mr. Wolf was right. You won. So long, and thanks for all the fish. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:49, 14 April 2012 (CDT)

== Sorting Out User names ==

Thanks for taking care of that. When I don't see any further contributions right after a new user account is made, I tend to be more suspicious. --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 16:29, 16 April 2012 (CDT)

== Bot ==

Have you notified the other admins? Are they aware of the situation? It's hard to tell who's online sometimes, but I'll do what I can. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 16:55, 17 April 2012 (CDT)
:So it's an American bot. Anyway, I'll do what I can. I'll probably be monitoring for another hour, then I have to step out. I should be back on later tonight though. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 17:06, 17 April 2012 (CDT)

== Glock 18C ==

Hey man, so I just noticed that some guy has once again tried to replace the Glock 18C image with his own. You had previously reverted his upload... Rather then reverting it myself, I thought I would mention it to you... [http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Glock18c_01-1-.jpg Picture in Question]. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:11, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

== FNP ==

Hey man. Some guy just made a bunch of weird edits to the [[FNP]] page. He changed all the specifications for the FNP-45 to values that are not correct (based on both wikipedia and the FN website). He also added a ransom show that has no page on the site. Do you mind rolling back his edits so I don't have to correct each mistake? Thanks! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 17:37, 19 April 2012 (CDT)

== Chronological Order ==
I'd have to dig it up in the forums but I was told by a Mod a couple years back that if the page has a relatively low number of firearms (20 or less) to use chronological order. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 13:36, 20 April 2012 (CDT)

== Forum ==

I made your forum account a moderator. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 15:44, 21 April 2012 (CDT)

== Devil May Cry. ==

Aite. No worries. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:04, 6 May 2012 (CDT)

== Nukes... ==

I'm sorry. You're right. :-( Let me explain where I'm coming from (just so you don't think I'm trolling the site looking for pages to nuke). I am in the process of trying to convert every gun page from the list format to table format. As I go through, whenever I find an entry that is missing a date I go to that entries page. If that page has an "incomplete" tag, is far from complete and hasn't had any work done in a longgg time, I have been nuking them. As was mentioned in the forum, these are (for the most part), drive-by creations. Pages made by a user who was here for a few weeks and then never returned.

But, at the end of the day, you are correct. I will tone it down on the nuke tags and reserve them for REALLY poor pages. Sorry. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:52, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

== re: M57 ==

Yeah, and looks like he added a bunch of other Zastava guns that were not featured in anything yet. [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 16:02, 7 May 2012 (CDT)

== Infoboxes ==

Hey. So first off, a disclaimer, I am posting the following message for each of the Admins so don't think I'm spamming. Just want to get input from all of you. I have been working on a number of infoboxes for different pages ([[Template:Infobox Movie]], [[Template:Infobox TV]], [[Template:Infobox Video Game]]). I have already gotten some help from [[Bunni]] who installed an additional add-on to facilitate the templates. I would love to get some feedback from you (and other admins) regarding these. Do you like the format? Are there things you would like changed? Should additional information be added? The nice thing is that with the add-on that [[Bunni]] installed, you do not have to provide all the information for the infobox. Any variables left blank will simply not be printed.

Finally, I would like to see how you feel about my adding these to pages. I have gotten positive feedback from a number of users (including at least 3 admins) but before I add this to more than a dozen or so pages (which I have done for testing purposes) I want to really get full permission. I know that sweeping changes are a '''MAJOR''' no-no without full admin approval. Check out the thread in the forum (http://forum.imfdb.org/showthread.php?t=1942). I look forward to hearing your feedback! :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 11:15, 9 May 2012 (CDT)

== "The following weapons..." ==

Oops.... I haven't exactly been consistent on that one. Thanks for letting me know. Sorry about that. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 16:57, 11 May 2012 (CDT)
:That makes sense. I will make sure to do that from now on. Sorry (again...) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 12:12, 15 May 2012 (CDT)

== RE5 ==

No, it was with an AI Sheva. I cannot play co-op because the online part of G4WL games does not work in Slovakia. BTW, there was an Ithaca and a Skorpion in her inventory, but no ammo for them, so probably that is why she went with the Beretta. (I also put grenades and mines to her inventory, so that she cannot pick up ammo.) - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 12:27, 16 May 2012 (CDT)

== Minor Note ==

I totally get what your saying and agree. We did discuss this a while back. I have stopped removing the entry with the exception of pages that were deleted for not meeting IMFDB standards. And even then I only remove them if the media in question doesn't meet standards, not just because the page wasn't complete. In other words if the page was deleted because no one had worked on it I leave the entry but if the page was deleted because it was a Documentary or a youtube video then I do delete the entry. Thanks for staying on this! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:07, 22 May 2012 (CDT)

== Image Error ==

I would try to upload an image to overwrite it eg. uploading something with the same file name. May be a size issue. [[User:Bunni|bunni]] 15:48, 31 May 2012 (CDT)

== GoldenEye ==

Hey. Thanks for taking care of [[GoldenEye 007]] for me! What do you think of the new [[:Category:See_Also|templates]]? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:46, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

== Your LAW Pic ==

No offense, but is that a picture YOU took? Also the end cap has broken off and that particular one is a trainer (not the sub caliber trainer but a classroom trainer) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:37, 5 June 2012 (CDT)

==aha==
Yes, that is the first model LAW, the M72. It doesn't have the metal framed front site but has a solid piece of clear plastic. When the Army demilled them, they just snapped off the plastic front plate, which makes it hard to fix because the clear plastic base (with the spring) is still in the sight base. Apparently that was done because the first pattern sights were 'night sights' and were "radioactive". That pic is still a trainer though. I will try to post a pic of the actual first pattern LAW. I have one, but like most folks, my front sight is broken. They really did some weird stuff to that LAW for the film though (pyro insert tube not withstanding). :D [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 13:56, 12 June 2012 (CDT)

== Thank ya! ==

Many thanks bud! I promise to use my powers for good. If you, or any of the other admins, ever feel I'm over stepping, please let me know. I may be an admin now, but I still defer to the more senior admins. As for the bot, it is a giant work in progress. If I actually manage to figure out how to make it work, we will get creative with the name. :-) --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 14:39, 26 June 2012 (CDT)

== Unrelated to firearms ==

Are you the same Evil Tim who [http://lparchive.org/Castlevania-64/ Let's Played ''Castlevania 64'']? [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] 16:42, 14 July 2012 (CDT)

== RE:Stinger / Redeye ==

Done, does that look ok? They don't really look as alike as the SVD and PSL, think it is just the case that people seem to identify any shoulder launched missile as a Stinger when they don't know what it it. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:33, 27 July 2012 (CDT)

== Template: Screenshot ==

I took care of the optional argument for a page title. That was a really good idea... If you have any more ideas like that, give me a holler and I'll make um happen. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:18, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== Evil Tim? ==

Evil Tim? As in the lets-player? If so... FINISH GOLDENEYE DAMNIT!
Also, I love you :3 --[[User:Chris Jeremic|Cheers, Chris J]] 03:10, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

== Killer Uzi ==

It looks like this guy is the ''Everybody Hates Chris'' guy. I was going to perma-ban him just for that, but it turns out that the last guy to make that page WASN'T banned. What do you think? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 07:50, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
:I thought that too, but do you think he's smart enough to completely switch genres? Van tu/leavemealone/Michael Myers covered all the same pages and had the same MO with all of this accounts. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:39, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
::Talked again, you're right, probably the same kid. I gave him six months. You can go over the transcript, maybe you'd like to give him more. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 18:26, 16 August 2012 (CDT)
:::KillerUzi seemed a bit calmer than Liam, who obviously is venting his rage (at Zackmann, of all people, who wasn't even a user much less an admin when he got booted.) I don't think he'd claim to be younger than he actually was. Liam's previous lies have been about inflating his self worth. Besides, we have a name for KillerUzi. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:35, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
::::Oh, a copycat. I got to read his deleted bio a few minutes ago. Upstate NY and no caps. Declan (KillerUzi) is from upstate NY as well. Oh well, we have a new tidbit for his IMDb page: "Does not take rejection well." --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:52, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
:::::Is KillerUzi the same as Gunner95 then? We made the connection because they both claimed to be 10 year old filmmakers. Gunner95 kept trying to make a page for HIS film, a film no one else could've possibly have seen, which is actually documented on IMDb. The other pages that Gunner95 made also gel with Declan's IMDb bio. So let's lay out the facts here: Layla was a sleeper, almost definitely planted by Liam. His bio also fits with Liam's air force fantasy. Layla also came overnight (East Coast time,) so Layla is probably not Declan (who's a ten year old on the east coast). Weston has the same MO as Layla, but claims to be from the same area as Declan, and that's something he could've only known if he either knew Declan or his movie, since neither KillerUzi or Gunner95 disclosed that here. So maybe they're friends? They both claim to be filmmakers, maybe there's a connection there. Family relations? They both have vaguely Irish names. (oooh, Irish, another connection...) (I've been watching too much Law & Order, can you tell?) --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 09:16, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
:::::::From the Blacklist, it looks like KillerUzi WAS Declan. Hmmmm... --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 15:26, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
::::::You just made me think of that scene in ''Naked Gun'' where Nordberg puts his foot through the door and gets stuck. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 09:41, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

== New User ==

??? You gootta be a little more specific there buddy... Not really sure who or what you're talking about... --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:11, 12 August 2012 (CDT)
:There are 2 people who are authorized to create new users. Myself and Bunni. Seeing as Bunni is the owner and manager of the site and that HE authorized the account, I'm pretty sure its okay. Furthermore, Chris and I have already discussed this individual and you needn't worry about him. If he does cause trouble, Chris and I will be all over it but we have spoken with the individual in question and are not worried. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 13:15, 12 August 2012 (CDT)

==Re AKS-47==

Don't we already have an image of a Type 3 AKS-47? Also, the one you're adding has a bit too much white space at the top and bottom. Evil Tim 10:07, 13 August 2012 (CDT)
Okey, well I thought that the picture was a good display of a T3 underfolder. But if I cut the picture so there's less white, would it be better? --[[User:TheJoker|TheJoker]]

==Hey==
Sure, if you want. I didn't think I had enough to warrant an archive though. As for Goldeneye, looks good. If you have a game that brings in a bunch of kids, mistakes come with the territory. The guns in the game certainly look a lot better than the original. (I still can't believe all the grief the original has caused.) BTW, what do you use to get console caps? My capture device kinda sucks, and I've been thinking about upgrading. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 10:02, 14 August 2012 (CDT)
:Ah yes, Hauppauge! I had one of their TV capture cards back in the day. I'd still use it if I was trying to get caps from an NES. I tried getting caps for ''[[Call of Duty: Finest Hour]]'' a few months ago with the no-name device I had, and it sucked. I've been looking into upgrading. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:09, 14 August 2012 (CDT)
::$185 on Amazon, yikes! --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 11:09, 14 August 2012 (CDT)
:::I played the Wii version on my buddy's Wii when it came out, and I DLed the demo of the Xbox version a few months ago. It wasn't bad, it was just... unremarkable. I don't know why they keep trying to trade on the ''Goldeneye'' name when there are plenty of other Bond titles that have never had a game. I was encouraged when EA did the ''From Russia with Love'' game, but I guess Activision thought differently. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 08:45, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

==BO2 Pics==

Im ok with take screenshots of the entire screen but theres just one problem: the four gamescom videos have been made private and those videos have weapons not seen in the other previews. I have screenshots but there the ones you warned me about so should I upload them or wait till someone can get full screenshots?[[User:Mr.Ice|Mr.Ice]] 14:17, 14 August 2012 (CDT)

== New Vandal ==

FYI [[User:Weston1911|Weston1911]] is indiscriminately vandalising random pages. Have undone his edits so far, seems like the new system keeps out the bots but not the dicks. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:08, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

Is there any particular reason he puts so much effort into messing stuff up? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:24, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

== Commando ==

I'll do you one better... It is done. Good thinking. --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 09:49, 17 August 2012 (CDT)
:Also, sorry for "Weston1911". Thank you for helping clean up his mess... :-( --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:17, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

Thanks for the admin recommendation! --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:12, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

== Spam ==

So spam has dramatically decreased lately as a result of the new system put in place by [[Bunni]] but we still have the occasional jerk who gets through. For future reference, if anyone does start doing stuff like our pal [[user:Weston1911|Weston1911]] did, will you message me? I am compiling a "blacklist" that includes the e-mail and IP the user used when they registered. It will help prevent them from registering in the future. Thanks man! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 10:33, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

: Weston1911=Liam? --[[User:Ben41|Ben41]] 14:59, 17 August 2012 (CDT)

::I was wondering about that myself.--[[User:Jcordell|Jcordell]] 09:38, 18 August 2012 (CDT)

== Removed Picture of SIG-Sauer P228 ==
Why have you removed my picture of a SIG-Sauer P228!? It is a blankadapted gun and I haven't removed the other picture of a P228. Tell me why please. --[[User:thejoker|thejoker]]

== Removed Picture of Kalshnikov AKS ==
Have you also removed my picture of a AKS with folding stock unfolded? Why do you do this, whats wrong whit the pictures according to you? It has taken me quite alot of time to find these images and crop or cut them down whatever, it makes me a bit irritated to be frank with you. --[[User:thejoker|thejoker]]

== Re Removed Picture of SIG-Sauer P228 ==
This picture is also of a blankadapted SIG, and I didn't remove the other picture of a SIG, I only added mine that is in high quallity defination. Also even if the picture already there is a SIG P228, i don't claim otherwise, actually looks more like a air-soft gun. Look at the talkpages for SIGs and you see other has maked that claim, and said that they would have wanted an aditional picture. --[[User:thejoker|thejoker]]
::HI there Evil Tim. I admit that the Sig P228 is probably the worst gun in our inventory. It had been slid under a truck and had been actually repaired several times. It is NOT an airsoft, but it does look like crap. The grips were sanded down for some strange reason a long time ago and I don't know why. I will pull another P228 today and resubmit it. Great work BTW. I've been pretty busy with movies and stuff so I have not had time to resubmit gun pics. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]

== Re Removed Picture of Kalashnikov AKS ==
You are right that it is a small picture, but it is the only picture of an actual AKS with the stock unfolded, the old picture I put up which was taken from the right side I removed because I had touble uploading it and if you use it you have to put it in uneven, strange, number of pixels or it will look compressed. The size of the new picture is adequate in size to use, I thougt You shouldn't have the reference picture the same size as the screencaps anyway. --[[User:thejoker|thejoker]]

== Re Removed Pictures ==
Okey, I wont argue any more about the SIG P228 picture as he will upload a new one. Why I started replacing AKS pictures was because users had used the Type I AKS with a stamped receiver when the guns in the screencaps were clearly of milled receiver type, also since the Type I AKS had it's stock unfolded I thought it would fit to have a Type III with a stuck unfolded, wich makes the guns in the picture match the AKs with woodn' stock in size which looks better.The picture that I uploaded before, the one that looked compressed, sometimes actually needed to change more than one px, not always though, to update so it would look uncompressed. I tried whit one and then took of one px at a time untill updated. I'm not the best at how all this stuff work I admitt that but I'm telling you what actually hapened. If [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]s pictures is the ones to go with we, or you as I don't know how to talk to him on his page, sould ask him to upload an aditional picture of an AKS Type III with it's stock unfolded. --[[User:thejoker|thejoker]]

== Smith & Wesson Revolver In Code Name Red Rooster (Täcknamn Coq Rouge) ==
Are you good with identifying revolvers? I'm not that good at that, or I don't think so anyway, so could you take a look at the page of this movie and see if my assumption of the gun I labeld as a S&W Model 27 is right. I can't see if the barrel is tapered but it looks slimmer then what a barrel of a Model 29 in .44 Magnum (wich it is said to be in dialouge) appears to be. I appreciate help with. --[[User:thejoker|thejoker]]

== Age requirement ==
I have no qualms about imposing such a requirement. We just have to publicize it. And do we grandfather in the existing underage users or boot them? --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 13:00, 19 August 2012 (CDT)

== Octopussy Unknowns ==
Did you delete the unknown listed guns on the Octopussy page? In that case, why did you do that? If you didn't think they sould be on the main page why not just move them to the talkpage? Why delete them compleatly? [[User:Thejoker|Thejoker]] 10:43, 21 August 2012 (CDT)
:Sorry someting was wrong the first time I saw the page today, sorry about that! [[User:Thejoker|Thejoker]] 10:47, 21 August 2012 (CDT)

== FPG pictures ==

He didn't replace a real gun image actually, the one Zack added was an airsoft as it is marked "FPG". --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:34, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

Not really, I think that is just left over from when someone got confused and thought that the FPG was the production version and FMG-9 was the prototype. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:29, 25 August 2012 (CDT)

== Ground Zeroes ==

Hi.

Can you recreate the article? We have more than one weapon exposed now (the Mini-UZI in addition to the FN FNC, as well as some other weapons), so it would warrant it. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] 00:08, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

== "Personal Attack" on Rockwolf66 ==

Evil Tim, when I reversed his reversion of my reply to him on the M16 Series Talk page, I removed the Personal Attack thing and just left the rest of my reply to him. Can I bring back my comment again without anything that could be seen as attack? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 15:28, 3 September 2012 (CDT)
:Yeah, I was going to remove the second half. Also, yeah, even though the STANAG magazines were never fully accepted by NATO, they're still called STANAG. Also, apparently, they're a "Draft STANAG". [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 09:07, 4 September 2012 (CDT)

User talk:Evil Tim

2012-09-03T20:28:52Z

Jeddostotle7: /* "Personal Attack" on Rockwolf66 */ new section

User talk:Jeddostotle7

2012-09-03T20:26:04Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Personal attack */

==Alarm für Cobra 11==
When you think you've found an error, either correct it or mention it on the talk page; [http://www.imfdb.org/w/index.php?title=Alarm_f%C3%BCr_Cobra_11_-_Die_Autobahnpolizei&diff=next&oldid=521985 please do not clutter pages with comments]. We try to keep pages looking neat and professional.--[[User:PistolJunkie|PistolJunkie]] 14:54, 18 February 2012 (CST)
:Oh, sorry, I've just seen other people doing it, and I thought it was what we were supposed to do. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 8:00, 19 February 2012 (PST)

== Personal attack ==

Actually, he does do that kind of thing. There are rules requiring certain basic standards of etiquette in discussions, and a member is perfectly entitled to remove a post that breaks them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 01:59, 3 September 2012 (CDT)

User talk:Jeddostotle7

2012-09-03T16:29:12Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Personal attack */

User talk:Jeddostotle7

2012-09-03T16:28:43Z

Jeddostotle7: /* Personal attack */

Talk:M16 rifle series

2012-09-03T05:35:16Z

Jeddostotle7: /* 50-round mags */

==Screen Used Rifles==
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film ''[[Scarface]]''. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in ''[[Uncommon Valor]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BattleLA M16A4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 (5.56x45mm) with ACOG scope, RIS foregrip, Magpul MBUS rear sight, and AN/PEQ-15 IR designator as seen in ''[[Battle: Los Angeles]]'']]
[[Image:Colt Law Enforcement Model 6920 Carbine..jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Law Enforcement Carbine with ACOG scope and PentagonLight MD3R weaponlight, screen-used weapon from ''[[I Am Legend]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A1 with 20-round magazine, fitted with scope - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[File:Colt Model 607.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mockcommando.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:GUU-5P.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GUU-5/P - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M148.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm with a mounted [[XM148 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:K3B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Olympic Arms K3B carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:C8A1ELCAN.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A1 carbine 5.56x45mm with ELCAN scope. Also known as the "C8FT" (Flat-Top)]]
[[Image:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A3 Carbine with EOTech red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A4M203ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Artwork of an M16A4 rifle - 5.56x45mm with ACOG scope and M203 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:M653M203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 653 5.56x45mm with magazine removed and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:Cam15a4tacticalcarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Classic Army M15A4 airsoft carbine rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:RRA DEA.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rock River Arms Tactical CAR-A4 Carbine 5.56mm with EOTech sight]]
[[File:Model 633 SMG DOE.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt 9mm SMG DOE (Model 633), shortened variant of the Model 635 produced for the Department Of Energy - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Blackwater AR-15.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Blackwater AR-15 (a.k.a. "BW15") with Magpul PRS stock, Harris bipod and telescope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:ColtCanada C8CQB.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Canada CQB - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:DDM4v1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daniel Defense M4 v1 with DDM4 Rail 12.0 FSP, A1.5 rear sight, Magpul CTR stock, and KAC vertical foregrip - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:MGS3XM16E1Real.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Exact copy of the XM16E1 in Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. '''Note that this a Toy replica made by a user at the [http://bmedicom.runboard.com/t13028,offset=10 MDEI WORLD] forums and will be replaced as soon as a real XM16E1 in this configuration is found.]]

==Airsoft Replicas==
[[Image:CAXM177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Classic Army XM177 airsoft replica rifle - 5.56x45mm (of the type used by SF troops in some scenes of the movie ''[[Green Zone]]'').]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG AIRSOFT RIFLE - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 AIRSOFT RIFLE with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt AR15 Match Target Competition HBAR II 6731.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Colt AR15 Match Target HBAR II (Model MT6731) - 5.56x45mm]]
This is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

An airsoft gun and a cap gun aren't the same thing. LOL [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:43, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

There is a significant difference between a true A2 and A3 M16. Externally, they look identical, however the A3 is full auto and the A2 is 3 shot burst. Simply put: A1 and A3 are full auto, A2 and A4 are 3 shot burst. The external differences are what make it a little easier to identify. We all know what an A1, A2, and A4 M16 look like, but the A3 is just an A2 that is full auto. Hope this helps; Its my first time posting. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 10:14, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Cadillac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

So why not update this page to include current issue M16A4 rifles?
(unless you don't know what they are....)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

:::They're probably somewhere in Mexico right now, if you catch my drift. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:39, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16 series are the ONLY assault rifles (except the [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:g41-series&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&Itemid=5/ HK G41], which is made to be like the M16 and is no longer produced) in the world to have a forward assist. Why don't other assault rifles have a forward assist? (ie. the AK-74, G36 etc.) Because other assault rifles are more reliable and don't need it. :)
::Uh more associated with the design of the Bolt than being more reliable. The AK series have a bolt handle attached DIRECTLY to the bolt carrier as do many other designs. If there is debris or fouling in the chamber which keeps a round from seating properly you can just jam the handle forward (I've done this in the field when my AK / Garand / Galil / M 14 / etc jammed) I once had a tiny piece of bark (I was firing under trees) which fell from above and fell into the ejection port and made the round 'stick' really badly in the chamber so that it would not seat properly. The M16 design has no way other than the forward assist to nudge the bolt & carrier forward enough to fire and kick that crap free of the action. But I wouldn't bash the M16 as an "unreliable" rifle. I'd sure take it into battle right now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright, I understand. thanks for the extra info. I'm not saying the M16/M4 is a complete piece of crap, but it's definitely not the BEST ASSAULT RIFLE IN THE WORLD! like we Americans like to state all the time (*rolls eyes*). You and me both know the M16/M4 is no where as reliable as the G36 or the AK series. But at least it's better than the L85 series, now that's a piece crap rifle. :D *Edit: Well at least the L85A1, the L85A2 is OK. kinda like the M16/M16A1s sucks but the M16A2/A4s are good.

::::I have to completely disagree with what you say, i don't wish to come off as passive aggresive but you sound like a mall ninja that learned their weapons knowledge from seeing them perform in videogames or hearing public opinions on weapons from the news or other sources. The M16 family of rifles are both fine and fairly reliable weapons, while much of that view has been skewed by the fact they were portrayed as unreliable during conflicts such as Vietnam, is incorrect to a degree. The M16 is a reliable and capable weapon when cleaned and properly maintained, it simply lacks the ability to stay so when not properly serviced, as some other rifles such as the AKM can function fine without cleaning, the M16 can not. As for your comment on the L85 series, yes they were somewhat poor and unreliable weapons at first, coupled with poor grips and clumsy to handle for certain users, however the newer models have made large improvements and are very capable firearms. As i feel it needs to be said (or typed) a common mistake people make is assuming that militaries have access and funding to field their troops with the best weapons available, which is not always the case as most countries don't have the money to field an Army with rifles that can cost up to $5000-10000 per unit. Which is where the workhorses like M16's come in, you go for the "good" rifle not the "great" one. Also, although off-topic it somewhat pertains to the M16, most mall ninja's assume the AK-family is better because it is more reliable and fires a heavier cartridge, I've always asked "would you want a round that's going to pierce right through an enemy and leave an easy to treat wound, or have a round that hits an enemy and fragments inside them causing an ungodly bloody mess?" Hopefully esteemed imfdb members such as MPM2008 will agree with and share my viewpoint concerning this subject, as well as not condemn me for my long comment. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 13:24, 06 March 2011 (UTC)

::::The issues of jamming during the Vietnam War had more to do with ammunition and the lack of a chrome-lined chamber and barrel than the rifle's so-called "dirty" gas system. In 1964 the Army switched from stick powder to ball powder, which increased the rate of fire to over 1,000 RPM and left a lot of dirty residue in the weapon. This was only exacerbated by the lack of cleaning kits and training on how to maintain the weapon. They fixed the issue by fitting the rifle with a buffer system (which slowed the ROF down) and chrome-plated chamber. Training programs in weapon maintenance were instituted and an instruction book on how to maintain the rifle was circulated among troops. After further modifications resulted in the M16A1, many of the reliability issues disappeared (although even today, the weapon has yet to shed its bad reputation). The M16A2, A3, A4, and M4 carbine of today are an entirely different breed of warrior than the prototypes that were issued back in the 60s. While it may admittedly be a bit finicky, the M16 today is a good weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah but it's still a very fussy weapon, it's not very durable, and it has much more malfunctions/jams then say the H&K G36, but none the less it's still a excellent weapons platform, mostly. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

::::: I was always taught that the forward assist, while useful in combat, in situations where dirt or grime can jam a weapon, overall, if you DO need to use it, its a good indication of a malfunction and should be addressed, especially if its at a range. Theres a video somewhere on youtube, of a guy shooting some sort of AR, and repeatedly hits the forward assist, without clearing or checking the bore, until the entire gun explodes, probably from a round hitting one stuck in the bore. -MissySummers- 18:47, 8 January 2012 (CST)

:::::::Are you talking about the video where the magazine blows apart on one guy's AR-15 when he pulls the trigger? If so, I've seen it and while I don't recall exactly what the description said the cause was, I'm pretty sure it was an issue with the ammunition (probably a hot cartridge) rather than the oh-so-pined-upon gas system. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:48, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::::::One element to remember when criticising the AR-15's reliability is that when it was first issued in the field, it was touted to not need any maintenance nor be cleaned. Immediately, this was realised to be a mistake, but that initial belief that it never needed cleaning and inevitable memory of fouling sticks around. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 14:20, 14 August 2012 (CDT)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- No prob, dude - I'm just glad you got what I was gettin' at. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

i would be shocked if they couldnt pick their weapons. their the best soldiers on the planet. it just doesnt make sense not to be able to. it would be like giving a star baseball player a 10 dollar glove. itll do but why wouldnt they get the best thats out there. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Reg army units use the burst M4, not the full auto A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

A couple of months ago when I was at a military base there were Marines conducting a weapons demo with the M4 carbine. It was the 3-round burst rifle, but a question came up about the M4A1. One Marine said that they got rid of all M4A1s and only have M4s. I personally don't see the need for a full-auto rifle and 3-round burst is fine because it forces the user to slow down and most of the time the user uses semi-only, combat or not, but that is my opinion. The M4A1 is still probabley used by the US Military, but I'm not sure, I haven't seen one in a long time.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Accurized Rifle ==

After seeing several pages of real firearms appearing in only one film or game, I was wondering if I should expand this page with a new section for the [http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp Colt Accurized Rifle], which to my knowledge has only ever appeared in [[S.W.A.T. 4]]. Before I do that, I need to confirm two things:

*Is the Colt Accurized Rifle indeed another variant on the M16 line of rifles, or a separate take on the AR-15 design altogether? I suppose there's a reason why we don't include the [[Z-M LR 300]] in the M16 page because it's the latter--I need to know if the Colt Accurized Rifle falls in that category.
*Including it on this page would make it the first Designated Marksman Rifle variant here. So far I only see assault rifles or carbines here. Would including a DMR in this page be a problem or not?

If there are no real problems, I'll make a new section for it, but I have no idea where I'll get a non-copyright infringment image of one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:It'd be the '''second''' DMR on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but can someone confirm that the Colt Accurized Rifle is indeed descended from the M16 line of assault rifles and not a separate take on the AR-15 design like the aforementioned LR-300 is? I still have no idea where I can get a photo of this DMR that respects copyright. All I have are game screenshots. Some help here, please? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Removeable Carry Handle for Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Does such a Gun exist?

:Not as a production gun (Colt's website makes no mention of one, anyway), but the modular nature of the AR system makes such a configuration entirely possible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==Why do we have a Colt AR-15 SP1 category that is separate from the M16/SP1 category?==
The guns look the same, sure the SP1 had a design change in 1978 (three prong flash hider was changed to birdcage, rear sling swivel was changed to A1 style and the color went from greenish grey to straight grey) but unless we see the stamp on the side that says "Property of U.S. Government" we can't tell if it's a real M16 (which WERE sold via Title II dealers to armories) and a Colt AR15 SP1 which was converted to full auto (which was done A LOT prior to 1986). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== About M4 Commando and M16A4 Full Auto ==

Full Auto M16A4 (Model 905) is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901]

[http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com_2.asp Model 933] ''is'' M4 Commando (Full Auto)

[http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp Manufacturer's site] says it all.

== Colt Model 653 barrel length ==

Am trying to pin down what a gun is for a page I'm working on. It has a forward assist but no deflector, A1 rear sight, M4 length tubular handguard, 16" barrel with birdcage flash hider and a solid stock. Basically it matches the gun in the picture for the Model 653 on the main page, apart from having a solid stock but that is easily changeable. However, every source I can find about the 653 says that it has a 14" barrel. Was the gun made in different barrel lengths but kept the same designation, and if not, anyone know what the gun is that is pictured as a 653? Also, while I'm on the topic of obscure colt carbines, does anyone know of a model that will match a 725 (original C8 without the flat-top) but has an A2 rear sight? Thanks, --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:16, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Can anyone figure out what this is? ==

I found this hidden in my computer, I think it's a Colt Canada C7A1 as a base, I can tell it's C7 because of the Canadian leaf on the the lower receiver, it would be an A1 because of the removable carrying-handle. What the heck is that hand-guard? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:02, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:Colt Canada C7A1 SPW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C7A1 SPW?]]

:Colt Model 750/Diemaco C7 Light Support Weapon - A modified C7 with an enlarged gas tube (hence the square handguard) and a heavy barrel for sustained fire in the squad automatic weapon role. The C7 LSW is not used by the Canadian Forces but has seen service with the Dutch and Danish militaries. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:34, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

::Ha! I thought so, thanks. :) Should I remove this section or keep it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

:That's not Colt LSW, that's [http://www.colt.com/mil/CAR.asp Colt Automatic Rifle]. Follow the link and you will see that the image is the larger version of the official one. Meanwhile, [http://www.coltcanada.com/lsw-page.htm Colt LSW] has optional folding carry handle. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:09, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

::Thanks guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:02, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

:Just to clarify, the Colt automatic rifle, LSW and LMG are all the same weapon. The original version that looks like the one above was the Colt Model 750, which featured a fixed A2 carry handle and barrel mounted bi-pod, and the newer version above is the current production Model 950, with the relocated bi-pod and A4 rear sights. As you said, the folding carry handle is removeable, and the picture on the Colt website is just one without it fitted (note the longer centre vent on the top of the handguard is the mounting point for the handle). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:48, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

::The original version was based on M16A1:

::[[File:M16A1 CAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

::The one you described was based on M16A2:

::[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Guys, remember back in the 1980s when Colt was trying to vie for the SAW role? Sure the FN Minimi was never knocked off its perch, but Colt came out with a Colt light Machine gun that looked a lot like this. They were selling the barreled uppers on the market for a while in the early 1990s (I know a few friends who have them, but I never got one). This looks like that reincarnated!!! LOL![[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:24, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

:Well, that's all written on [http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/m16-lsw-lmg-e.html Modern Firearms] :P

::Ah yes, you only read about it monkeyboy ;) I was handling and firing that sucker! LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:11, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, and I've found articles of why AR is more advantageous than SAW to US Marine Corps:

:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-employment-concepts M249 Employment Concepts]
:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-light-machinegun-automatic-rifle-role The M249 Light Machinegun In The Automatic Rifle Role]

:Interesting reading, methinks :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 30 April 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah it was. :) You know, I kinda knew LMGs were dying out. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:07, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Not overall, it's just the role they are being used in (automatic rifleman). SAW is still very good in defensive role and laying fire on attacking forces ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

== Heat Dissipation Performance of Carbine Barrel Types? ==

I was wondering, does anyone know what kind of effects the 'cuts' (originally meant for the mounting of the M203 grenade launcher) in the barrel of the M4 and similiarly-styled M16 & AR-15 series carbines has on the heat dissipation performance of the barrel? Do the cuts help the weapon release heat from prolonged firing better than a barrel that has a uniform thickness, or does it hamper that? Any input anyone can provide on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:46, 8 May 2011 (CDT)
:The step down for the grenade launcher is actually pretty negligible in terms of cooling (although it does create a point of weakness to bending), as what you can't see is the fact that as soon as the barrel goes under the handguard it is reduced down to the same narrow diameter as in the cut out, which creates a much bigger effect on cooling. The narrower profile sections have the effect of cooling down the barrel quicker, but they also conversely mean that the barrel heats up quicker, and the heat has a larger effect on the accuracy of the gun. The main advantage however is that it reduces the weight quite a bit. The original reason that the M4 barrel reduces in size behind the handguard is based on the M16A2, which does exactly the same thing where its heavy barrel is actually only thicker past the front sight. This was due to a cock up in the design, where they designed the gun with a full thickness straight barrel, and found that they could then no longer clamp the M203 to the barrel, so the barrels were simply turned down from behind the front sight post. The front of the barrel was left thick due to the fact that the thinner barrels on the M16A1 were being bent at the front from being used as pry-bars to get the loading bands off of shipping pallets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:There is a heavier "SOCOM-profile" barrel that maintains the same diameter beneath the handguards as the standard M4-profile barrel does around the M203 cut and it can mount the M203 just fine.[http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BCM-URG-M4-14SOCOM-2.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:40, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== can you tell me what model of m16/car 15 this is ==

sorry i do not have a pic but i can tell you what is like. me and my dad were talikng about some of the guns he used in the army and he was telling me about this one he said was like an carbine version of the m16a2 and it was like the m4 but had a fixed carring handle and it was used befor the m4 it had safe semi and burst and he said it just had ar15 on the side.-Steviebleckley

:Sounds like the first batch of M4s that were delivered. This is the Colt Model 777, which is basically an M4 with a fixed carry handle, and 3-round burst as opposed to full auto. It is the brother of and visually identical to the 727 mentioned on the main page, where the 727 as full auto as opposed to the burst. If it didn't have the M4 profile barrel though, god knows. Probably a model 654 on an M16 lower receiver or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:02, 13 June 2011 (CDT)

yes it had the same profile as the m4. i gess it was the 777.I will show him the pic of the the 727 since there the same well the 727 is full auto thanks for the info - Steviebleckley

== Question about the buffer tube ==

I'm not one hundred percent sure what it does, and (like the forward assist) that almost no other guns have it. If someone could just clarify, what does it do, why does this rifle series have it, and why don't others/what replaces the buffer tube in other rifles? Thank you in advance. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:27, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
:Basically, it was installed in order to slow down the rate of fire. The very first M16s ended up using a different ammunition powder than they were designed for, which caused a higher rate of fire than desired (about 800 to 1000 rpm I think), leading to excessive fouling in the chamber, and hence lots of stopages. From the M16E1 onwards a buffer tube was added to slow the rate of fire to about 600-700 rpm, and a chrome lined chamber and barrel was added as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:47, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
I'm not sure if this is practical in any way, or even possible, but is their a way to increase the rate of fire on an M16 without the problems of the carbon build-up in the chamber?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)
:Why would you want to increase the rate of fire? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)
No reason, just wondering if it's even possible with a full-auto M16.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 08:09, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:Probably, I see no reason why you couldn't. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm assuming the reason that the high rate of fire caused fouling was that the rate of fire was so quick that the bolt was unlocking and opening before all the powder was fully burnt in the chamber, leaving residue. I'd imagine that you could increase the rate of fire by removing the buffer, and just make sure that whatever powder you were using was fully burnt in the time it takes the bolt to open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:29, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::That would make sense, since I heard the nightmare version of that was when the gas pressure was still holding the spent case in place while the extractor was trying to eject it, which tended to result in Horrible Things happening to the case while it was still inside the rifle. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

This might be a silly question, but why is it that the AR-15 design required the buffer tube, and other rifles do not? Is it just located differently, and if so why? It just strikes me that the lack of a folding stock option is a poor design, especially when compared to most assault rifles designed today, SCAR, ACR, etc. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:57, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm guessing here, but from what I've read it's that the rifle had already been designed, so they had to work inside the box, as it were. The only options were either to make the components of the action a lot heavier so their momentum prevented the weapon cycling too fast (which would rather defy the point of using a lightweight aluminium receiver and suchlike) or add something on to slow it down, which is what they did. Rifles designed since have been designed from the ground up to avoid this kind of problem, so don't need to have a tube attached to a hole in the back of the receiver to fix them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:The buffer tube does two things: 1) contains the buffer and spring and 2) allows the bolt carrier to recoil part of the way into it. The combination means that the AR15-series rifles are functionally a long-recoil design where the bolt does not slam into anything rigid during recoil and stops based on the pressure of the buffer spring. This--in turn--enhances the straight-line recoil and therefore controllability during automatic fire or rapid semi-automatic fire. It also allows the AR15 design to use the rear of the bolt carrier to actuate the automatic sear meaning the probability in this design that you can set a round off with the bolt unlocked during automatic fire is nil. (Look up some of the problems with the "Lightning Link" to get a better idea of why this works the way it does.)

:Other designs often do incorporate additional recoil buffers in the stock, the FN FAL's without folding stocks do this and the plastic-stocked SAW's, but the AR15 design simply trades the ability to fold a stock for enhanced recoil handling... The idea behind the design was to make a weapon where the entire recoil force is in a direct line between your shoulder and the end of the barrel with as little jarring as possible. This is also one reason for the use of a direct gas impingement system and one reason why gas-piston AR's tend to eat the front of the buffer tube and buffer tube area of the lower receiver due to bolt carrier "tilt". The "lateral" forces of the piston tapping the top of the bolt carrier misaligns the bolt carrier off its straight line path and pushes that chunk of steel into the aluminum.

:Oh, and the forward assist is to compensate for not having a rigidly connected bolt handle. (Like someone already mentioned). The reason why is the design is meant to be operated in a manner where you ONLY use the charging handle for initial loading and then unloading at the end (administratively). Every other time, you actuate the bolt using the bolt release on the left side of the weapon... --[[User:Deathbunny|Deathbunny]] 01:28, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Noob Question ==

Ok I have a really dumb question, what is the difference between the Colt M4A1 and the Colt M4A1 Carbine? Or are they the same exact thing? The only reason I asked is when I was looking at the page, the M4A1 and the M4 Carbine look exactly the same, so how can you tell one from the other? - [[User:1morey]] July 22, 2011 11:21 AM (EST)

: The M4A1 and M4A1 'Carbine' are the same thing, the 'carbine' is just optionally showing the proper firearm type. As for the M4 and M4A1, well it ''does'' say the difference in the section but to answer - the M4 has Safe-Semi-Burst fire selection ala the M16A2/M16A4, the M4A1 has full-automatic instead of burst, ala the earlier M16s/M16A1/M16A3. Otherwise they're pretty much identical appearance wise (The M4A1 also has a heavier barrel inside the handguard, which of course you can't tell from the outside). It also notes some commercial AR-15 carbines are given an 'M4' moniker, but aren't the same as actual military M4s. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 12:17, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt or not? ==

If a M4 or M16 variant is listed on a page, should it by prefixed by Colt? I've noticed some people doing this but isn't it incorrect as the term M16 is the army designation as opposed to the Colt name (for example the Colt Model 603 for the M16A1). Either way, I would imagine that quite a few M16s or M4s in movies are manufactured by companies other than Colt, and even the US military rifles are not necessarily made by Colt these days. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:43, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:I am curious... if the military M4 and M16 are not made by Colt these days then by whom? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:58, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::There was a stretch in the 1990s when Colt lost the military contract and all the M16s were built by Fabrique Nationale (FN). Though many companies build AR15 platforms, only the company who has the contract with the Dept. of Defense can call the M16 theirs. If there ARE any other manufacturers being represented on the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq, someone needs to find out. I certainly don't have any contacts who would know information which is THAT current. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:48, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::FN have stated that “the vast majority of M16A2, A3 and A4 contracts as well as spare parts contracts for these systems since 1989”, and they had a $7 million contract to make M16A4s between 2005 and 2008. Sabre defence also won a contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles in July 2008 for the US navy/Marine corps respectively. Having said that FN also stated: ”...never was FN Manufacturing LLC, or any other small arms manufacturer, awarded M4 contracts. The M4 cannot be competed and always has been awarded sole source to Colt because of licensing rights restricting full and open competition until 2009” although it has stated its intention to bid for M4 contracts past this point. The US government took ownership of the M4 design on the 1st July 2009, so the M4 can now be manufactured for the government by other companies, but I don't know if this has actually been done yet. Regardless, M4 and M16 are government designations, so surely calling a gun a "Colt M4" is incorrect? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:09, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Just checked the United States Army [http://www.army.mil/features/ official website]. It lists [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m4.html M4 Carbine] as being manufactured by Colt and [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m16.html M16 Rifle] by Colt and Fabrique Nationale.
::::Oh, and take a note of M16: ''"The '''M-16A3''' is identical to the M-16A2 but has a removable carrying handle that is mounted on a Picatinny Rail (for better mounting of optics) and is without burst control. The '''M-16A4''' is identical to the M-16A2 except for the removable carrying handle and Picatinny Rail."''
::::United States Marine Corps websites: [http://www.marines.mil/] [http://www.marines.com/] don't mention the current manufacturer for [http://www.marines.com/main/index/winning_battles/gear/weapons_and_equipment/m16 M16 Rifle]. So I am not sure about them. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Just to throw a bit of confusion in here, there are actually a number of different rifles designated as the M16A3 by the US military. The first is the Colt Model 646, also known as the M16A2E3, which was introduced in small numbers at the same time as the M16A2 and is an A2 with an A1 lower. Then you have the flat-top Colt Model 901 which was introduced at the same time as the M16A4 (in 1994 I think) and I'm assuming this is the version that the above page refers to. You also have the Colt Models 941 and 942 which are the HBAR and HBAR LMG models respectively, but I don't know if they are used. Not that any of this really matters as we identify all these guns as A2/A4 anyway. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Well, that's because armorers don't have access to military M16A3s, so they just slap A2/A4 uppers to A1 lowers (correct?) because what Hollywood film director would want fixed burst firing gun (ignoring the fact that that's what soldiers and marines use) ? Or modify civilian semi-automatic replicas to fully automatic fire. In which case the weapon is to be identified as such. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:54, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Didn't mean to imply we are doing anything wrong, just that the definition of the A3 models isn't that important as they don't appear. Having said that, the original M16A3/M16A2E3 was just an A2 upper on an A1 lower, so this is actually what a number of movie guns are, but I understand that they are going for a standard A2. Regardless, back to my original question, do we call them Colt or not? My opinion is no obviously, as it seems that some if not the majority of M16s are manufactured by other companies, and there is the future possibility of this with M4, and regardless it is a military designation of a rifle that goes by another Colt name. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:31, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::My opinion: M4 & M4A1 should remain as Colt. And so should older M16s. Modern M16s (M16A3 & M16A4), since they have ''at least'' 3 official manufacturers (Colt, Fabrique Nationale and Sabre Defence), should go without Colt. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:37, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== How to NOT shoot an M16 rifle! ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI] - Seriously, this is either really funny, or just painful to watch... you decide. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:19, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, that was bad. Glad that guy's alright! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:46, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::Also, notice how many times the gun clicks and the guy keeps saying it's a "bad primer". And then he keeps hitting the forward assist, pulling on the charging handle (which is seen ejecting the unfired rounds) and hitting the bottom of the magazine even though it's already back in the gun after he kept taking it out and putting it back in prior (Someone else in the video even says 'Jesus [name withheld], you don't know how to load these.' and the shooter responds with 'I didn't load these, [name withheld] did.'). I think that could have been a contribution to the gun exploding in his hands. But then again, I'm not the expert on M16 rifles, I'm only guessing. Anyone else got a better explanation? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 17:05, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
:::It was the shooter saying that the guy who came to help didn't know how to load them, and then that assisting guy said it was someone else. There is nothing wrong with tapping the magazine even when it appears to be seated correctly, as it makes sure it is all the way into the well. Although he did hit forward assist unnecesarily once or twice, I don't think it would have done any harm or contributed to the kaboom. The file description and all the comments say that this was a squib, and it was all the shooters fault for not identifying it and checking the barrel (there are also quite a few people that seem to think it is possible the load 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber at a time by repeatedly pulling the charging handle, but this is Youtube after all). But I don't think it was, as on the first misfire there was only the click of the hammer, and when he pulled the bolt back a round was ejected which wouldn't have been chambered if the previous "bang" was a squib. I've never fired a round with primer but no powder, but surely there would still be an audible "bang" rather than just the click of the hammer? When exactly did the bullet get stuck in the barrel, or am I missing something? Regardless, I would never use ammo I hadn't loaded myself, particularly not done by a friend of a friend. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:33, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
::::I think it's safe to say that the idea of unintentionally loading 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber of an M16 rifle is an overstatement and pretty much absurd (I've NEVER heard of such a thing happening with the M16 rifles). But one person's explanation in the comments is that when the hammer struck the primers of the "squib" rounds, the 'click' in question was the popping of the primer, which popped with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of the gun, but without the 'bang' sound since the powder of the "squib" rounds were bad. So when the explosion happened, it was because the hammer struck a perfectly fine round, or one with enough charge in it's powder load, and that bullet impacted the other bullets stuck in the barrel, which caused a high-pressure situation ending with the magazine blowing apart, and leaving the M16 rifle damaged (probably for good). Talk about good craftsmanship going to waste! But at least the shooter in the video was not injured in any way. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:51, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::I could be wrong as have never done it myself (I am not a moron) but I am fairly sure that a primer going off with no powder in the round makes a louder noise than just a click, which is all that is heard in this video. Anyone know how loud just the primer from a .223 would be? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:05, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Apparently [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS1K1zJQhOQ this] is a .308 primer. Now bear in mind how far down the audio is turned (as you don't have to wear ear protection when he fires), I can ''kinda'' see that might end up sounding like a click. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:52, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Yeah, most of the time all cameras (except for maybe the professional ones used by filmmakers) capture certain sounds differently. It is possible for the primers of "squib" rounds to discharge with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of whatever gun it's fired from (and sometimes it will stay there until the owner disassembles their weapon and removes the lodged bullet), and most of the time, the "popping" sound of the primers sounds like a "click" when captured on a camera similar to the one used in the video of the M16 blowing up in that guy's face. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:28, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:I've seen this video before, looks like the guy was pulling a half-assed SPORTS drill several times while the weapon was malfunctioning on him. But yeah, shooting custom-loaded ammo with no reliable means of quality control is definitely not a good idea, as this video clearly demonstrates. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:52, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== Not working ==

Why is the M16 page not working. It locks up my computer, and the network wont respond. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes before it will work.[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:It might be your browser and / or RAM is having trouble with the size of it; this is the largest page on the site. What's the spec of your PC? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:03, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

==Difference between original M16 and M16A2==
I know how to distinguish XM16E1s, M16A1s, and M16A4s from each other, but how are both the M16 and the M16A2 different visually? Both rifles have no forward assist or removable carrying handles and the M16 can also appear with a "birdcage" flash hider. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:34, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:M16-SP1-30Mag.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|M16 aka SP1 (flat "slab side receiver") with an A1 "birdcage" Flash hider - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]

:I'll try. Also with the caveat that I have to replace the movie M16s on the site. An IMFDB member whom I am eternally grateful for, pointed out that I had A2 lowers on A1 uppers. Though that works, it's also not correct. I have to replace the M16 pics with exact versions of each one, but that will take time. I just point this out to make sure that people know I'm aware of it.

1) M16: original USAF contract in Vietnam and in the U.S. slab side upper and lower, 1st pattern duckbill three prong flash hider, original buttstock with foldable rear sling swivel. Early models had counter-turning screws in stead of pivot pins to attach the upper and lower receiver.

1) XM16E1: 2nd pattern three prong flash hider, Chromed bolt, exposed mag release button (no ribbing) but there is a partial rib for the front pivot detent pin and spring, old M16 style buttstock and rear sling swivel, tear drop forward assist.

2) M16A1: Birdcage Flash hider, Phosphate bolt but chromed chamber, mag release button ribbing to protect against accidental mag dump and full ribbing to the front pivot detent pin and spring, A1 style buttstock with fixed rear sling swivel (with stowaway compartment in the buttplate)

3) M16A2: A2 style flash hider with no holes on the lower part, ring washer instead of lock washer, heavy barrel, round forearm, full ribbing on mag release button and front pivot detent pin and spring, front part of lower receiver is beefier and thicker as well as the rear part near the base of the tube ring. Updated and longer (by about 1") rear buttstock and thicker buttplate, slight finger ledge on the pistol grip about midway down. Adjustable rear sights with elevation control as well as side to side. A2 does NOT have a detachable carry handle.

Hope this helps. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:26, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

:Don't forget that the M16A2 has semi/3-round burst as opposed to semi/full auto in the M16 (though you rarely see this feature used on-screen as most directors feel the full auto looks better than a 3-round burst). [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:15, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
No versions of the M16 has screws rather than push pins at the front of the receiver. The only rifles that have these are the Sporter 1 rifles (which is what all of the pictures on the main page are actually of). The M16s that pre-date the captive push pin (Models 601 and 602) have a large headed push pin that is held in place by a ball detent on the pin itself. Also, the "M16" category can be separated out into 3 different guns which the USAF used seqeuntially in turn. First is the original 601 which has green furniture, original "duckbill" flash hider and triangular charging handle (around 14,500 were made, 8,500 to USAF, 1,000 to the Army for evaluation and the rest to special forces, police, and a number of Asian countries). The 602 is the quintessential slab sided M16, and introduced the updated 3 pronged flash hider, black furniture, the current "T" shaped charging handle. The third "M16" is what is often called the USAF M16 and was the most produced variant, and was the Model 604. Early versions had the M16E1 type partial fence lower, whilst the later versions had the M16A1 full fence lower, and these weapons continued to be used by Air Force until 2001, when all M16s were updated to the A2 standard. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:58, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
::Cool! Thanks [[User:Commando552|commando552]] As I've said before, I pulled movie armory weapons. Very rarely do I get access to actual firearms museums, but then 99% of the full auto guns were probably sporter conversions, since it was much easier to convert a title I to a class III gun prior to 1986. I have a LONG laundry list of photos to update thanks to you guys! ;) But the information helps. Also only in recent months have i realized how many franken guns were built in the 1970s/80s and 90s on the M16 platform. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:24, 21 October 2011 (CDT)

Pics of the different M16s I mentioned above:
[[File:Colt 601.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 601 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt 602.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 602 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:USAF Colt Model 604.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 604 (USAF M16) - 5.56x45mm]]
--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:48, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

== Historical Question ==

Anyone knows why XM177 never dropped the 'X' letter in it? If 'X' usually implies the prototype and testing stage, then why did XM177 have it with both upgrades and use in service, and the jamming M16s in Vietnam didn't? Or some other reasons? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:02, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Ignoring the USAF rifles (which got official GAU designations) the US Army only purchased a few thousand XM177s and the kinks were never really ironed out, so it is fair to call it an XM program still. Rifle was still in development stages really when US Army cut the funding due to Vietnam war involvement being scaled back.. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:27, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

::Were the Colt Commandos used in Somalia much more refined versions of XM177 program? If yes, I wonder why they were not put back in official service... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Do you have a pic of them, not sure what rifles you are talking about. If you are talking about the Model 733, that is not really related to the XM177s. US forces purchased a small number of Model 733s for Special Forces and was called the M16A2 commando, although Colt later offered it as the M4 Commando. Rangers and Delta in Somalia also used both Model 723s (A1 rear sight a straight barrel) and 727s (A2 rear sight with M4 profile barrel) and these weapons were known initially as M16A2 carbines, before morphing into the M4. Till the early 90s there were still some Model 653s (called the M16A1 carbine) and XM177s with the long moderators replaced with birdcages knocking around as well, so there were probably a lot of different guns knocking around Somalia. These guns were not refinements though, they were guns from the 60/70s that were still being used due to the fact that the US Army did not produce a standard issue carbine till the M4. I'm not even gonna mention the franken-guns that would have been used by the USAF special forces at the time. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:08, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Ah, thanks, that explains it. [http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/449652_going_for_a_1993_Somalia_car15_build_and_need_your_help.html Here are the various photos]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:26, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Carbine/Model 653/Model 727/Model 733 ==

Firstly, forgive my ignorance in things regarding the variety of AR-15 models. In the model description it says that it was 'never adopted formally by the US Military, and thus never had an "M" or "XM" designation.' However, in the following section where it lists the movies in which we can find this rifle it is often found as the M653. Can someone more knowledgeable either clear up why there is this discrepancy? Thanks --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:34, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Editors (and video game developers) often confuse the 'Model', 'M' and 'MK' designations. M653 should be changed to Model 653. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:14, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::Correct. Model "___" is the official COLT designation and usually comes first. Only when the weapon is adopted as an official front line weapon does it get the "M" designation. And all these minutia of details in the weapons history STILL gives me a headache! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:01, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

:::So does that mean we need to clean up this section to take all the 'M's away?--[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 08:11, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::::I've replaced the "M"s with Models --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:22, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Model 978 ==

'''I took this from Wikipedia, so it might be wrong.''' A lot of video games like to portray the M4A1 with additional burst mode. I read that the Colt Model 978 (a.k.a. "M4 Carbine Enhanced") is an M4 that features a S-1-3-F trigger group. I wonder how popular this variant was/is and most importantly when was it finalized and released? (if it was ever) - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:15, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:The four position fire selector weapons were adopted by nobody as far as I know, with the exception of Greece who bought the Model 778 (don't know how widespread this was, have just seen a few in some pics), which is basically a Model 727 with the four position selector. You can actually buy parts for a four position selectors, sears and disconnectors from Colt, so guns can be modified to this standard. However, I guarantee you that no guns in games actually have the correct four position selector, as it looks different to the standard one. Can't find any pics right now, but the four position selector is a flat plate with a ridge along the centre that ends in an odd knurled dome, sort of like a citrus juicer.

:I have also heard of US Special Forces having the four posiiton M4A1s (Model 978), but may just be rumors, and if true there are very few of them and certainly not widespread. They could also be modifications to standard M4s. Below is a pic of the side of a Model 738 M4 Commando Enhanced (Model 733 with the four position selector) showing the selector switch design.

:--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:37, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:[[File:Colt Model 738.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 738 "M4 Commando Enhanced" fire selector.]]

:Which games portray the M4A1 with additional burst mode, for example? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:40, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

::Ghost Recon features the normal A1 and the "M4 SOCOM" which has the bonus burst mode. Same in The Sum of All Fears game (both Tom Clancy games). Cannot think of any other games right now. (Maybe I was a little exaggerating when I wrote "a lot of" since in most games you can't even toggle the rof.) So, according to what commando552 wrote, it is possible that the M4A1 with S-1-3-F group in Ghost Recon was intentional, since you control a (fictional) U.S. special force. (And the correct trigger groups: We (at least I) don't take the selectors into account, since in most games you cannot even see them, or are set to safe while the gun goes all rock&roll.)- [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:55, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, yeah, the universe of Tom Clancy is the one where the prototypes and ultra rare things come true, including weapons and vehicles, so the presence of AR-15-type firearm with four-position selector switch shouldn't come as surprise ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:48, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Bozitojugg3rn4ut, the selector really should be taken into account, as apart from the receiver markings the selector switch is the only external difference between the regular Colt carbines and the Enhanced version with burst and auto. If it has the regular fire selector and lacks the markings on the receiver, then it is simply and M4 with the wrong fire control group. Is very hard to tell from the Ghost Recon screen shots as there aren't any of the relevant side, but you can just make out that there are only 3 positions marked on the right side of the receiver, making the physical model that of a regular M4/M4A1 rather than an Enhanced M4. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:09, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

Interestingly, this discussion is the first result when one Googles "Colt Model 978". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:05, 19 December 2011 (CST)

== Main Page ==

There are 2 issues:

1) Shouldn't it be called AR-15, since ArmaLite AR-15 is the weapon that started it all?

2) There is at least 1 not-rifle on the page: [[M16 rifle series#Colt 9mm Submachine Gun|Colt 9mm Submachine Gun]]

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:58, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

:I agree, AR-15 makes much more sense to me. I would call the page "AR-15 Variants", gets rid of the problem that "M16" is only relevant 5 or 6 of the 30 or so guns on the page, and the fact that rifle is not necessarily the correct term for all of them. I'm not sure how the site mechanics work, but would changing the name of the page create a massive problem for the 1000+ pages that link here, or would the redirects sort it all out? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:44, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

::Need to contact admins and ask them about this. I support your version, as more appropriate one. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:17, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Though you are technically correct, M16 is the most widely recognized nomenclature for the weapons that appear in films. Remember that we are not a gun encyclopedia, we are a weapons in MOVIE/TV/et al wiki. Sure, we utilized those rules of starting with the original weapon when it came to more obscure weapons (like grouping the R4s in with the Galils), but really famous weapons have their own pages, weapons that a firmly entrenched with their own identity in the mind of the movie going public. We also did not start a StG-44 page and then branch the AK-47s out from that even though the AKs obviously were a stepchild of the StG-44 Design theory. Very rarely are guns 'presented' as AR-15s in media. In fact many movie goers don't even recognize the term. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:13, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

::::I don't remember many movies where the character says: "Here is my M16!" or where the weapon is listed in closing credits :\
::::The reason for AK-47 not being on the same page as StG-44 is having completely different design. AK-47 was ''inspired'' by StG project, nothing more. There are a lot of weapons that bear a ''resemblance'' to AK-47 or AR-15 but have different design and thus their own page. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 31 October 2011 (CDT)
::::'''P.S.''' Imagine IMFDB consisting of pages: ''"M1911"'', ''"Desert Eagle"'', ''"MP5"'', ''"Garand"'', ''"M14"'', ''"M16"'', ''"AK-47"'', ''"Everything Else"'' :D

::::Now, [http://kingshamus.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/official.jpg THIS] made me laugh xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:34, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== What is the point of the Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Every time I look at it just seems so useless. I mean, why would anyone want what is essentially an M4 that does less damage with less range? Recoil would be lower I presume, but I cant see an M4 having a gigantic amount of recoil. I'm sure someone could help provide me with some insight but at the moment I'm finding it very hard pressed to find a purpose of this thing. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 14:20, 14 December 2011 (CST)
:I imagine it had more to do with some guys at Colt wanting to get in on the 9mm subgun market but not wanting to design an entire new platform to do it with. The 9mm round also gives you less penetration, which is good if, say, you're trying to shoot the guy you're aiming at only rather than him and the three things behind him. This is why the majority of people who actually use it are police or police-like units. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:42, 14 December 2011 (CST)
::The main advantage of it is that it is an SMG with the same ergonomics as an AR-15 platform, which makes training easier. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 14 December 2011 (CST)
:::9mm is much easier to suppress compared to 5.56. But Evil Tim's answer about Colt not wanting to design a whole new SMG is probably the right one.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:13, 14 December 2011 (CST)

== M4 Scope optics ==

Can someone give me some info on what is the standard scope optic for the military, and what is the best scope optic to use on the M4? i was just curious--Gunner5

:Which military? The M4 is used by a number of them in some capacity. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:53, 19 December 2011 (CST)

U.S. Military.--Gunner5

:The most common, I would think, are the ACOG and Aimpoint RDS, but just about any optic can be used on it. As far as what's the best optic to use, "best" is a relative term and depends on the individual shooter and what he/she prefers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:01, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::Not to mention different optics are more effective in certain situations than others; most ACOGs typically use 4x magnification and are effective for engaging targets at a distance, while red dot sights don't use magnification and are more suited for close-range engagements. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:21, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

== USE WITH S.A.S ==

Why does the S.A.S use the M16A2 as their standard rifle? In Bravo Two Zero (the book), Andy McNab calls the M16A2 a 4x4, and the SA80 a Rolls-Royce. Looking back, the S.A.S have a history of using foreign weapons. Why is this? Do Britain not make good enough weapons? Sure, the only thing we currently make and export are Accuraccy International's (which are the best sniper rifles in the world, and I don't care what anyone else says. It strikes me as strange, though, why the S.A.S use the AW50 and not the AS50 as their heavy-caliber sniper rifle), but why do the S.A.S have to use American weapons? Why not use German?

:"...''have'' to use American weapons?" You have some kind of grudge against American weapons or something? :P In any case, the events of ''Bravo Two Zero'' took place during the first Gulf War, so I really doubt they're still using M16A2s in this age of optics and rail systems. It's my understanding that their ''current'' "standard" long gun is the C8FTHB carbine, which is essentially an M4A1 with a 16" barrel of different profile to that of a standard M4. As to why, well, they use what they ''want'' to use, whether it be British, American, German, whatever. Much like their American counterparts in CAG and DEVGRU, they have the leeway and budget to get a little bit of everything because their mission calls for it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 7 January 2012 (CST)

::The SAS adopted the M16 as a replacement for the 7.62 L1A1 SLR which was the standard British rifle at the time. The SLR was superior in terms of reliability, accuracy and range, but the M16 had a major weight advantage in terms of both the weapon and the ammunition, could mount a grenade launcher, and was capable of automatic fire (so was the SLR, but a match was required to be inserted into the action). One of the reasons they continued to use it after the introduction of the SA80 rifles was due to initial reliability problems, along with the fact that until relatively recently the SA80 culd not use an underbarrel grenade launcher (M16s were also used by other units, such as some Royal Marine units and the Pathfinders). Don't really know the exact reason why the SAS (along with Military Police and Royal Marine close protection along with a few others) use the C8SFW/CQB rather than the SA80 but would imagine it is partially due to the lower weight and the modularity of the SFW (bear in mind that the SA80 didn't have a railed forened until a few years ago and has only just gotten a MIL-STD-1913 on the top for different sights). Unlike the M16s adopted before, the C8 has actually been officially adopted by the MOD as the L119A1 (both the SFW and the CQB share the same designation though). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:17, 7 January 2012 (CST)

:::L119A1 is the official designation for C8 SFW in British SF service. C8 CQB is just its variant. An analogy would be M4A1 (official service) and Colt Commando (unofficial service). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:50, 8 January 2012 (CST)
::::The Colt Commando moniker has never been attached to the M4, it's been primarily used to refer to previous A1-pattern carbines like the XM177 series. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:30, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::Colt currently markets the Model 933 as the M4 Commando, and several models have the "M4 Commando" rollmarks on the left side of the lower receiver as well. It is a bit messed up though also being stamped as the "M16A2 Commando" (making no sense as it is a flattop), or simply "M4LE" on law enforcement Commandos. The Commandos in particular demonstrate the practice of cobbling guns together from whatever bits are available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:44, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
::::::Colt adopted the M4 designation as a marketing ploy, the 11.5" 933 isn't used by the military in any capacity that I know of and not likely to start since those that need shorter barrels already have access to even ''shorter'' 10.3" CQBR URGs and 10.5" Mark 18s, neither of which are M4s since they don't match the physical specs of an M4. Heck, I can pull up a pic of a flat-topped GUU-5/P that to the untrained (or uncaring) eye would be identified as an M4A1, but isn't because it uses a slab-sided pre-A1 lower receiver. A lot of M4A1s in use by SOCOM units also can't technically by Colt naming standards be considered M4s since SOCOM now has 12.5" URGs for use on M4 lowers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:55, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::::Delta Force used the weapon, when it was known as 'M16A2 Commando' (CAR-15 in article), in Somalia.[http://www.guns.com/the-us-special-forces-and-their-guns-and-gear-or-at-least-the-stuff-we-know-about.html] I'd also recommend to get the book "Weapons of Delta Force" by Fred Pushies.
:::::::Force Recon also knows Model 733 as 'Colt Commando'.[http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm]
:::::::In essence, more modern (meaning, without older parts) M4 CQBR and M4 Commando are just that. M4 Carbine with shorter barrel. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:52, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

::::Another reason the SAS don't use the SA80 is because you cannot use it in your left hand and they prefer to be able to use a weapon in both hands as it's better for shooting from behind cover. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:12, 12 February 2012 (CST)

:::"Why not use German?" Aside from the fact that if you say SAS most people with think of "Black Kit" with an MP5, there is still some rumours flying around about them using the 416 and 417. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:30, 13 February 2012 (CST)

::::Probably thrown around by HK's PR department, they sold a ton of MP5s off the back of the SAS using them to break up the Iranian Embassy Siege. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:20, 13 February 2012 (CST)

:::::Using the HK416 might be BS, but British Special Forces do use the HK417. It was bought a few years ago as a DM rifle before the army got the L129A1. It was also more widely tested by the Royal Marines in the role, but was replaced when the L129A1 was adopted. [http://www.eliteukforces.info/images/gallery/uksf/sfsg-multicam-hr.jpg Here] is a photo of an SFSG team, the guy second from the left in the first row has a suppressed HK417. They guy behing may also have one, but can only make out the stock so could be another AR-15 pattern rifle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:51, 13 February 2012 (CST)
::::::He's got a Minimi Para with a PIP stock like the guy second from the right in the front row; you can see the iron sight against his shirt. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:50, 13 February 2012 (CST)

== Page Title ==

While this page contains many weapons based on the AR-15, shouldn't it be called "AR-15 family of weapons" or something like than rather that just "M16 rifle series"? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 12:36, 15 February 2012 (CST)
:Look 4 topics above this one. If it was up to me I would call it "AR-15 rifle series" or something like that, but MPM2008 made the point that although this would be technically correct the average person coming to site would be much more familiar with the term M16, which is fair enough. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:53, 15 February 2012 (CST)

== Sniper Rifles? ==

How are we defining "Sniper Rifles" for [[:Category:Sniper Rifle]]. It seems to me that all the guns on this page are Assault Rifles. I know that you can certainly convert an M16 to a sniper rifle but all the images seem to be of Assault rifles. Just curious! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:47, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:The main rifle on here that I would class as a sniper rifle is the Mk 12 SPR but there are also the Vietnam-era M16 sniper variants, the Model 655 and 656. There are also some "target" AR-15s like the Colt Accurized Rifle and the Match Target Competitions that I would probably class as sniper rifles if I had to put them into a category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:21, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:::Sadly, it seems that Colt has discontinued the Colt Accurized Rifle for the time being. I checked my old link on the [[SWAT 4]] page and it no longer works, nor is the Colt Accurized Rifle anywhere to be found on their product page sections of their website (maybe it just couldn't compete with similar products from other companies?). I was hoping the Colt Accurized Rifle would have been included on this page--I guess that won't be the case now, for how can a firearm be included here on this wiki if it failed to make much of an impact (to the point that it was discontinued) and thus won't be in many pieces of audio-visual media? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:57, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
::I missed the Mk 12 SPR. I 100% agree with you on that one, that is DEFINATELY a sniper. Thanks for clarifying! Any change we could could put a definition on the [[:Category:Sniper Rifle]] page like the one that is on the [[:Category:Assault Rifle]] page? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:28, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

::The 655 and 656 were full-auto capable, so I wouldn't exactly lump them in as sniper rifles. Same goes for the Mark 12, if you want to get technical. The Mark 12 grew out of a program to create a SOPMOD upper receiver component that the shooter could switch out with his M4 upper when in need of increased range and accuracy. So in its original form, the SPR was still technically an assault rifle (and as such it's still frequently used in that manner by SOF who switch out uppers on full-auto lowers), it just had a high-magnification scope, and we all know that just sticking a scope on an AR doesn't make it a sniper rifle. It didn't lose its full auto capability until it was type-classified as an individual weapon. Mark 12s in regular grunts' hands would likely be dedicated sniper rifles, but those you see in use by SOF are more than likely just SPR uppers on M4 lowers. There's a similar distinction between Mark 18s (complete type-classified weapon with 10.5" uppers on refurbished M16A1 lowers) and "M4A1 CQBRs" (10.3" uppers on M4 lowers). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:55, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:::Just because something has full automatic capability doesn't mean it is not a sniper rifle. It is unusual and arguably unnecessary, but as far as I know there is no official definition of what a sniper rifle does and does not have. In my opinion it is a sniper rifle if it is designed for and used in the sniping role. Hell, you can even call small caliber stuff like the Ruger 10/22 a sniper rifle as it has been used as one. For the purposes of this site though, I think the category should be used if the rifle ''appears'' to be a sniper rifle to the average user who might be trying to identify something. In other words, a catch all term for sniper, designated marksman, target and hunting rifles. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 21:14, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:I was under the impression that a dedicated sniper rifle had to have (at a minimum) a scope, be chambered in a full-size rifle round (so as to allow for accurate distant shots with high stopping power, a key part of sniping), be ergonomically suited for use while prone (i.e., its magazine must not be so large as to create an obstruction when lying on the ground on your stomach, and preferably have a bipod) and allow for accurate semi-automatic/bolt-action fire (fully-automatic or burst-fire is possible but counter-productive for accurate long-range shots, and such capability is usually reserved for Designated Marksmen who must travel with a squad and still keep some close-quarters firepower if necessary). So something like the VSS Vintorez wouldn't count because its round is short-ranged (up to 400 meters only given its subsonic velocity, so it's more of an accurized "special purpose" assault rifle), while the SVD would, due to its scope, 7.62x54mmR caliber, small magazine size to ensure it doesn't get in the way when used while prone (I'm very confused as to why the Soviets never put a bipod on the SVD, however), and semiautomatic-only nature. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:57, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
::As we only have the sniper rifle category here, I would class the VSS Vintorez as such, as it is designed as a suppressed sniper rifle. By virtue of the fact that it is suppressed it uses a lower power shorter range cartridge than a typical sniper rifle, but not all sniping is long range. If you were to use an integrally suppressed [[Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_series#Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_Suppressed|AWS]] with subsonic ammunition the range would be limited like on the Vintorez, but that doesn't mean it is no longer a sniper rifle. In particular, for police and some special forces uses long range is not as important in a sniper rifle as accuracy and other considerations. Like I said before, silenced Ruger 10/22s have been used by special forces for almost silent sniping. Another example would be the Russian SV-99, which is a silent sniper rifle based on a .22LR biathlon rifle. Weapons like these are specialized sniper rifles, but they are still sniper rifles none the less. I'm not sure whether trying to make a fixed definition for a sniper rifle is a good idea, as you will always find exceptions. Not all "sniper rifles" even use telescopic sights, an example being the Barrett M82A2 which uses a 1x red dot sight as it was actually designed for shooting from the shoulder as a low cost anti helicopter weapon. Another rifle that breaks your definition would be the [[BMS Milcam Rifle Series|BMS Snicam]] which is undeniably a sniper rifle, but uses a 5.56mm cartridge from 20/30 round STANAG magazine. Different sniper rifles have wildly different characteristics depending on the specific task they are designed for. The only thing I can say about what should be in the sniper rifle category is if it looks like one, put it in there. This isn't an encyclopaedia, the idea of the categories is to help people identify unknown guns, so if it looks like a sniper rifle that is the category they will be looking in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:13, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

== About charging handle ==

From [http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/11/foghorn/ask-foghorn-what-does-a-forward-assist-do/ The Truth About Guns]:

''"Ever since, part of the military’s manual of arms for loading the M16 and its variants includes a mandatory smacking of the charging handle even if it isn’t necessary."''

Is it about racking the charging handle? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:51, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

:That is a mistake, smacking the charging handle does nothing on an AR-15. As it had previously been talking about the introduction of the forward assist (the button on the right rear of the upper receiver), I assume it is meant to say ''"Ever since, part of the military’s manual of arms for loading the M16 and its variants includes a mandatory smacking of the '''forward assist''' even if it isn’t necessary."'' --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:01, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

::Ah, thanks for the explanation. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:50, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

== AKM front sight on an M16? ==

Was just doing a bunch more caps for the [[Bravo Two Zero]] page and came across this:
[[File:Bravo Two Zero (3634).jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
This is the SP1 that is carried by Baz (Ian Curtis) fitted with a CM203 launcher but it looks as if (to me at least) it is fitted with an AKM front sight. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before or know of after-market parts that look like this? This seems like an absolutely random modifications for an armourer to do to a rifle, only thing I can think of would be if the sight on the gun wa damaged during filming so they slapped this on. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:40, 2 April 2012 (CDT)
::The movie was filmed completely in South Africa. Could the SA armorers be using any Vektor rifles disguised as American guns? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
:::I really need to get around to updating the page to show it, but the weapon is a straight SP1 apart from the front sight so it isn't a Vektor. You can actually see the existing M16 gas block, and this looks like the top part of the gas block/sight has been sawed off and an AKM sight welded on. As it switches between a regular SP1 and this one with the cobbled together sight, I'm guessing that the rifle was broken part way during shooting and an AKM sight was the only vaguely suitable spare part they could get their hands on. I've actually taken a bundh of caps for this film bu have forgotten about them till now, will try and add them later to show what I mean. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:44, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== RAS on M16A4 ==
What is this rail system?
[[Image:M16A4withANPEQ&ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
It doesn't appear to be a KAC M5 RAS because it lacks the cut-out in the upper half to accommodate the M203 barrel clamp. If you don't know what I mean, zoom in on the front sight area in this pic and notice how the side rails are shorter than the top and bottom [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/USMC_M16A4_Rifle.JPG]. I've only seen this kind of rail on airsoft M16s. Is the rail in MPM's image above an airsoft replica? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:17, 13 April 2012 (CDT)

:I was having hard time trying to find that specific handguard... While it looks very similar to the KAC's M5, maybe IT IS an airsoft replica, though not 100% sure. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:27, 30 May 2012 (CDT)
::Nope it is NOT an airsoft replica. Those rails are REAL and damned heavy as well. :D I think on this particular gun it had an aftermarket rail system. Not all guns on screen have KAC Rails. I will hunt down the rifle and take more detailed pics of the rails. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:15, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== "M4 Commando" ==

Both Model 933 and Mk 18 Mod 0 sections mention that the M4 Commando is not an official designations. I don't really understand this, as that is how Colt calls it on their webpage. [http://www.colt.com/ColtMilitary/Products/ColtM4CommandoR0923CQB.aspx]- [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:07, 12 May 2012 (CDT)
:About the Model 933, when they were first offered I'm not sure if they were marketed as "M4 Commandos" but they definitely are now. In fact, they even have "M4 Commando" stamped on the magazine well. The Mk 18 is a different kettle of fish, as that is not an "official" colt model and is just put on whatever lower receiver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:37, 12 May 2012 (CDT)

== Question ==
Why isn't the M16A3 listed on here and just about every other site.Just wanted to know?Is that its an unofficial variant or is it just a M16A2 that fires full-auto?--[[User:DJsputnik|DJsputnik]] 00:50, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:It's just an M16A2 with full-auto in place of burst. Almost all "M16A2s" in movies are essentially M16A3s since they're A2 uppers on older A1 or SP1 full-auto lowers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:57, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::Let's not forget that it can be flat-top also. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:05, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I'm noy sure if the full auto version of the A2 that people call the A3 was ever actually officially designated as the A3, but for clarity I tend to call it the Model 646 or M16A2E3 (which was its official name). I save the M16A3 name for the full auto version of the M16A4, the Model 901, whih is currently officially designated by the US as the M16A3. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:26, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Defense Industry Daily disagrees. [http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m-16-rifle-purchases-04517/] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:46, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::::The rifle that the DID article is referring to is the later Model 901. They may refer to it as a full auto version of the A2, but they also talk about the order from FN in 2007 for new A3s and A4s, which were definitely both using the flat top receiver. The flat top A3 was developed in the 90s with the A4, so rifles built in 2007 would not be to the old spec. That article is either unclear and is referring to two different models, or it is a typo (or just wrong) about referring to the "A3" they are talking about as being a full auto A2. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:08, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== Anyone recognise this variant? ==

I just came across this rifle on the ''[[Strike Back - Season 1]]'' page where it is listed as an M4A1:
[[File:Strikeback-M4-1.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
However, it isn't a Colt rifle as the flat top rail is higher than on a normal AR-15 pattern gun. Also, it has an A1 forward assist plunger, A1 lower receiver (although I imagine this is a replacement to allow full auto) and a non Colt stock (curved in front of the locking bolt as opposed to vertical, several companies like Tapco make their stocks like this). I've read somewhere on here (a ''[[Stargate]]'' page probably) that Olympic Arms flat top rifles have a higher scope rail compared to other AR-15s, is this one of them? I know bugger all about Olympic Arms rifles and can't seem to find many pictures of them, but all the ones I can find show them with a standard height rail, kind of like I can never find a picture of one with the "Stowaway" pistol grip that the ''[[Stargate]]'' pages also state that they have. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:25, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

:Doesn't look too different from a standard M4 carbine to me. The telescoping stock isn't much of an identifier as to the model of the weapon; the standard stock can be easily swapped out for third-party aftermarket stocks (in fact you'll note that there are images of the M4 with both four and six-position stocks on this site). As for the forward assist button, it can be swapped out just as easily as the stock. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:11, 11 July 2012 (CDT)
::The forward assist and stock are secondary, they just add to the likelihood of it not being a Colt gun. Another thing that is easily replaceable but just adds to the whole weirdness of this gun in that fact that it has an A1 rather than A2 flash hider. The main thing is the scope rail. It is higher than on a standard AR-15 pattern gun made by Colt, or the majority of other manufacturers. The easy place to see this is at the rear above the charging handle, where the receiver above the charging handle slot is about twice the thickness. I've just noticed as well that the brass deflector looks odd, the top edge of it slopes upwards and goes higher up the weapon. This is definitely a live fire gun as they are used throughout the series firing blanks, but it is definitely not a Colt M4. Was hoping someone would be able to recognise the profile of the upper receiver, as that is the unique part which makes this gun unidentifiable. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:03, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

::I am the one who wrote that comment about Olympic Arms flattop receivers on the ''[[Stargate: SG1]]'' page, and several other pages. If you want a better example of what the earliest OlyArms flattop rifles looked like, check out the pics of the K23B Stubby which is used by [[Gary Sinise]] in ''[[Reindeer Games]]''. My understanding (and I asked about this on the OA message board) is that OlyArms' first flattop receivers were a bit taller (by about .25") than the current mil-spec standard seen on the M4/M16A4, and had a rail that was copied from the Colt ACR (which looks very different from the Picatinny rail). This style receiver was only produced for a short time before Oly started making their flattop ARs with the same type of receiver that Colt had introduced on the M4.

::As for the M4 in ''[[Strike Back - Season 1|Strike Back]]'', I agree with you that the flattop receiver is clearly taller than that of a mil-spec M4, but unlike early OlyArms flattops, it appears to have the Picatinny rail. So unless Oly manufactured tall flattops that had Picatinny rails (and I have no idea if they did), that upper is probably from some other manufacturer. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:44, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

== M16 and SP1 sections ==

As it is impossible to tell an original Model 602 M16 from a Model R6000 Sporter without seeing a detailed view of the front receiver pin (the M16 has a flat push pin whereas the SP1 has a screw headed pin) should they have separate sections? Furthermore from what I can tell the vast majority of the weapons listed in the M16 section are SP1s, as are all the images in that section. I would sugest merging the SP1 section into the M16 section and making a note of the fact that the vast majority of "M16s" in film/TV are actually SP1s. Also, I think the M16/M203 and M4/M203 sections should be merged into the main weapon sections as firstly (in the case of M16s) it doesn't distinguish by variant, and secondly most of the time an M203 is attached to a weapon people just list it under the notes section rather than putting it in these sections. Thoughts anyone? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:43, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== 50-round mags ==

Every time a video game includes a M16 or M4 with 50-round magazines it is listed as an incorrect capacity, why? According to some research, the M16 rifle series use STANAG magazines, which include the 50-round capacity, so why would a 50-round M16 be unrealistic? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] 03:03, 8 August 2012 (CDT) ''(I previously forgot to sign my post, so here it is)''
:I've never heard of a 50-round STANAG magazine, I thought they only came in 20 and 30 rounds. And please sign your posts. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:14, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
Some companies do make quad stack 50 round magazine, Surefire for example. However, these magazine look different to a regular 30 rounder widening outside of the magazine well to double thickness. If the gun is modelled with a 30 round mag and has a capacity of 50 then it is incorrect, just as a gun modelled with a 20 round mag holding 30 rounds is incorrect. To the best of my knowledge no game has featured quad stack AR-15 magazines yet, so any game where the weapon holds 50 rounds is wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:31, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
::Edit: My mistake, Surefire mags only come in 60 or 100 rounds, not 50. Think there are still 50 round ones out there, Magpul have files a patent for a 50 round version of the PMAG. Come to think of it, I really don't know why surefire didn't make the mags 50 rounders, as then the length would be about the same as a 30 rounder making it less obtrusive and more compatible with existing vests and pouches, but whatever. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:13, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
:I can't find anything on Google about 50-round STANAG mags. Maybe the OP could enlighten us? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:49, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
::On the Wikipedia page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STANAG_Magazine STANAG magazine] it says that there are 40, 50 and 90-round magazines (in addition of the usual 20, 30 and 100), which drew my attention on the 50-round mag --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] 03:03, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
Wikipedia sucks as a source of information. STANAG Magazines are designed to fit into an M16 magazine well. STANAG magazines are supost to be 30 rounds. 5,10,20,40,50, 60,90,100 round magazines are not STANAG magazines although they will fit into a STANAG magazine well. There was a 50 round magazine made durring vietnam and it was proven unreliable and removed from service as fast as it was designed and built. Thus ever 50 round magazine in videogames is erronious. Standard magazine capacity for a M16 is a 30 round STANAG magazine.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 15:10, 14 August 2012 (CDT)
:So, are you saying that the original 20 round magazines that were called STANAG aren't STANAG? A STANAG magazine is any magazine designed to fit into the magwell of the M16 and other weapons that use the magazines. ==EDIT== Ok, thanks for removing my reply to you before for "Personal Attack". You don't do that kind of thing. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 19:12, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2012-09-03T05:33:36Z

Jeddostotle7: Undo revision 608431 by Rockwolf66 (talk)

==Screen Used Rifles==
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film ''[[Scarface]]''. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in ''[[Uncommon Valor]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BattleLA M16A4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 (5.56x45mm) with ACOG scope, RIS foregrip, Magpul MBUS rear sight, and AN/PEQ-15 IR designator as seen in ''[[Battle: Los Angeles]]'']]
[[Image:Colt Law Enforcement Model 6920 Carbine..jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Law Enforcement Carbine with ACOG scope and PentagonLight MD3R weaponlight, screen-used weapon from ''[[I Am Legend]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A1 with 20-round magazine, fitted with scope - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[File:Colt Model 607.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mockcommando.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:GUU-5P.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GUU-5/P - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M148.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm with a mounted [[XM148 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:K3B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Olympic Arms K3B carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:C8A1ELCAN.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A1 carbine 5.56x45mm with ELCAN scope. Also known as the "C8FT" (Flat-Top)]]
[[Image:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A3 Carbine with EOTech red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A4M203ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Artwork of an M16A4 rifle - 5.56x45mm with ACOG scope and M203 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:M653M203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 653 5.56x45mm with magazine removed and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:Cam15a4tacticalcarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Classic Army M15A4 airsoft carbine rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:RRA DEA.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rock River Arms Tactical CAR-A4 Carbine 5.56mm with EOTech sight]]
[[File:Model 633 SMG DOE.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt 9mm SMG DOE (Model 633), shortened variant of the Model 635 produced for the Department Of Energy - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Blackwater AR-15.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Blackwater AR-15 (a.k.a. "BW15") with Magpul PRS stock, Harris bipod and telescope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:ColtCanada C8CQB.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Canada CQB - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:DDM4v1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daniel Defense M4 v1 with DDM4 Rail 12.0 FSP, A1.5 rear sight, Magpul CTR stock, and KAC vertical foregrip - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:MGS3XM16E1Real.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Exact copy of the XM16E1 in Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. '''Note that this a Toy replica made by a user at the [http://bmedicom.runboard.com/t13028,offset=10 MDEI WORLD] forums and will be replaced as soon as a real XM16E1 in this configuration is found.]]

==Airsoft Replicas==
[[Image:CAXM177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Classic Army XM177 airsoft replica rifle - 5.56x45mm (of the type used by SF troops in some scenes of the movie ''[[Green Zone]]'').]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG AIRSOFT RIFLE - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 AIRSOFT RIFLE with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt AR15 Match Target Competition HBAR II 6731.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Colt AR15 Match Target HBAR II (Model MT6731) - 5.56x45mm]]
This is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

An airsoft gun and a cap gun aren't the same thing. LOL [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:43, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

There is a significant difference between a true A2 and A3 M16. Externally, they look identical, however the A3 is full auto and the A2 is 3 shot burst. Simply put: A1 and A3 are full auto, A2 and A4 are 3 shot burst. The external differences are what make it a little easier to identify. We all know what an A1, A2, and A4 M16 look like, but the A3 is just an A2 that is full auto. Hope this helps; Its my first time posting. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 10:14, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Cadillac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

So why not update this page to include current issue M16A4 rifles?
(unless you don't know what they are....)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

:::They're probably somewhere in Mexico right now, if you catch my drift. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:39, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16 series are the ONLY assault rifles (except the [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:g41-series&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&Itemid=5/ HK G41], which is made to be like the M16 and is no longer produced) in the world to have a forward assist. Why don't other assault rifles have a forward assist? (ie. the AK-74, G36 etc.) Because other assault rifles are more reliable and don't need it. :)
::Uh more associated with the design of the Bolt than being more reliable. The AK series have a bolt handle attached DIRECTLY to the bolt carrier as do many other designs. If there is debris or fouling in the chamber which keeps a round from seating properly you can just jam the handle forward (I've done this in the field when my AK / Garand / Galil / M 14 / etc jammed) I once had a tiny piece of bark (I was firing under trees) which fell from above and fell into the ejection port and made the round 'stick' really badly in the chamber so that it would not seat properly. The M16 design has no way other than the forward assist to nudge the bolt & carrier forward enough to fire and kick that crap free of the action. But I wouldn't bash the M16 as an "unreliable" rifle. I'd sure take it into battle right now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright, I understand. thanks for the extra info. I'm not saying the M16/M4 is a complete piece of crap, but it's definitely not the BEST ASSAULT RIFLE IN THE WORLD! like we Americans like to state all the time (*rolls eyes*). You and me both know the M16/M4 is no where as reliable as the G36 or the AK series. But at least it's better than the L85 series, now that's a piece crap rifle. :D *Edit: Well at least the L85A1, the L85A2 is OK. kinda like the M16/M16A1s sucks but the M16A2/A4s are good.

::::I have to completely disagree with what you say, i don't wish to come off as passive aggresive but you sound like a mall ninja that learned their weapons knowledge from seeing them perform in videogames or hearing public opinions on weapons from the news or other sources. The M16 family of rifles are both fine and fairly reliable weapons, while much of that view has been skewed by the fact they were portrayed as unreliable during conflicts such as Vietnam, is incorrect to a degree. The M16 is a reliable and capable weapon when cleaned and properly maintained, it simply lacks the ability to stay so when not properly serviced, as some other rifles such as the AKM can function fine without cleaning, the M16 can not. As for your comment on the L85 series, yes they were somewhat poor and unreliable weapons at first, coupled with poor grips and clumsy to handle for certain users, however the newer models have made large improvements and are very capable firearms. As i feel it needs to be said (or typed) a common mistake people make is assuming that militaries have access and funding to field their troops with the best weapons available, which is not always the case as most countries don't have the money to field an Army with rifles that can cost up to $5000-10000 per unit. Which is where the workhorses like M16's come in, you go for the "good" rifle not the "great" one. Also, although off-topic it somewhat pertains to the M16, most mall ninja's assume the AK-family is better because it is more reliable and fires a heavier cartridge, I've always asked "would you want a round that's going to pierce right through an enemy and leave an easy to treat wound, or have a round that hits an enemy and fragments inside them causing an ungodly bloody mess?" Hopefully esteemed imfdb members such as MPM2008 will agree with and share my viewpoint concerning this subject, as well as not condemn me for my long comment. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 13:24, 06 March 2011 (UTC)

::::The issues of jamming during the Vietnam War had more to do with ammunition and the lack of a chrome-lined chamber and barrel than the rifle's so-called "dirty" gas system. In 1964 the Army switched from stick powder to ball powder, which increased the rate of fire to over 1,000 RPM and left a lot of dirty residue in the weapon. This was only exacerbated by the lack of cleaning kits and training on how to maintain the weapon. They fixed the issue by fitting the rifle with a buffer system (which slowed the ROF down) and chrome-plated chamber. Training programs in weapon maintenance were instituted and an instruction book on how to maintain the rifle was circulated among troops. After further modifications resulted in the M16A1, many of the reliability issues disappeared (although even today, the weapon has yet to shed its bad reputation). The M16A2, A3, A4, and M4 carbine of today are an entirely different breed of warrior than the prototypes that were issued back in the 60s. While it may admittedly be a bit finicky, the M16 today is a good weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah but it's still a very fussy weapon, it's not very durable, and it has much more malfunctions/jams then say the H&K G36, but none the less it's still a excellent weapons platform, mostly. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

::::: I was always taught that the forward assist, while useful in combat, in situations where dirt or grime can jam a weapon, overall, if you DO need to use it, its a good indication of a malfunction and should be addressed, especially if its at a range. Theres a video somewhere on youtube, of a guy shooting some sort of AR, and repeatedly hits the forward assist, without clearing or checking the bore, until the entire gun explodes, probably from a round hitting one stuck in the bore. -MissySummers- 18:47, 8 January 2012 (CST)

:::::::Are you talking about the video where the magazine blows apart on one guy's AR-15 when he pulls the trigger? If so, I've seen it and while I don't recall exactly what the description said the cause was, I'm pretty sure it was an issue with the ammunition (probably a hot cartridge) rather than the oh-so-pined-upon gas system. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:48, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::::::One element to remember when criticising the AR-15's reliability is that when it was first issued in the field, it was touted to not need any maintenance nor be cleaned. Immediately, this was realised to be a mistake, but that initial belief that it never needed cleaning and inevitable memory of fouling sticks around. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 14:20, 14 August 2012 (CDT)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- No prob, dude - I'm just glad you got what I was gettin' at. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

i would be shocked if they couldnt pick their weapons. their the best soldiers on the planet. it just doesnt make sense not to be able to. it would be like giving a star baseball player a 10 dollar glove. itll do but why wouldnt they get the best thats out there. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Reg army units use the burst M4, not the full auto A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

A couple of months ago when I was at a military base there were Marines conducting a weapons demo with the M4 carbine. It was the 3-round burst rifle, but a question came up about the M4A1. One Marine said that they got rid of all M4A1s and only have M4s. I personally don't see the need for a full-auto rifle and 3-round burst is fine because it forces the user to slow down and most of the time the user uses semi-only, combat or not, but that is my opinion. The M4A1 is still probabley used by the US Military, but I'm not sure, I haven't seen one in a long time.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Accurized Rifle ==

After seeing several pages of real firearms appearing in only one film or game, I was wondering if I should expand this page with a new section for the [http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp Colt Accurized Rifle], which to my knowledge has only ever appeared in [[S.W.A.T. 4]]. Before I do that, I need to confirm two things:

*Is the Colt Accurized Rifle indeed another variant on the M16 line of rifles, or a separate take on the AR-15 design altogether? I suppose there's a reason why we don't include the [[Z-M LR 300]] in the M16 page because it's the latter--I need to know if the Colt Accurized Rifle falls in that category.
*Including it on this page would make it the first Designated Marksman Rifle variant here. So far I only see assault rifles or carbines here. Would including a DMR in this page be a problem or not?

If there are no real problems, I'll make a new section for it, but I have no idea where I'll get a non-copyright infringment image of one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:It'd be the '''second''' DMR on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but can someone confirm that the Colt Accurized Rifle is indeed descended from the M16 line of assault rifles and not a separate take on the AR-15 design like the aforementioned LR-300 is? I still have no idea where I can get a photo of this DMR that respects copyright. All I have are game screenshots. Some help here, please? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Removeable Carry Handle for Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Does such a Gun exist?

:Not as a production gun (Colt's website makes no mention of one, anyway), but the modular nature of the AR system makes such a configuration entirely possible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==Why do we have a Colt AR-15 SP1 category that is separate from the M16/SP1 category?==
The guns look the same, sure the SP1 had a design change in 1978 (three prong flash hider was changed to birdcage, rear sling swivel was changed to A1 style and the color went from greenish grey to straight grey) but unless we see the stamp on the side that says "Property of U.S. Government" we can't tell if it's a real M16 (which WERE sold via Title II dealers to armories) and a Colt AR15 SP1 which was converted to full auto (which was done A LOT prior to 1986). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== About M4 Commando and M16A4 Full Auto ==

Full Auto M16A4 (Model 905) is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901]

[http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com_2.asp Model 933] ''is'' M4 Commando (Full Auto)

[http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp Manufacturer's site] says it all.

== Colt Model 653 barrel length ==

Am trying to pin down what a gun is for a page I'm working on. It has a forward assist but no deflector, A1 rear sight, M4 length tubular handguard, 16" barrel with birdcage flash hider and a solid stock. Basically it matches the gun in the picture for the Model 653 on the main page, apart from having a solid stock but that is easily changeable. However, every source I can find about the 653 says that it has a 14" barrel. Was the gun made in different barrel lengths but kept the same designation, and if not, anyone know what the gun is that is pictured as a 653? Also, while I'm on the topic of obscure colt carbines, does anyone know of a model that will match a 725 (original C8 without the flat-top) but has an A2 rear sight? Thanks, --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:16, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Can anyone figure out what this is? ==

I found this hidden in my computer, I think it's a Colt Canada C7A1 as a base, I can tell it's C7 because of the Canadian leaf on the the lower receiver, it would be an A1 because of the removable carrying-handle. What the heck is that hand-guard? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:02, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:Colt Canada C7A1 SPW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C7A1 SPW?]]

:Colt Model 750/Diemaco C7 Light Support Weapon - A modified C7 with an enlarged gas tube (hence the square handguard) and a heavy barrel for sustained fire in the squad automatic weapon role. The C7 LSW is not used by the Canadian Forces but has seen service with the Dutch and Danish militaries. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:34, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

::Ha! I thought so, thanks. :) Should I remove this section or keep it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

:That's not Colt LSW, that's [http://www.colt.com/mil/CAR.asp Colt Automatic Rifle]. Follow the link and you will see that the image is the larger version of the official one. Meanwhile, [http://www.coltcanada.com/lsw-page.htm Colt LSW] has optional folding carry handle. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:09, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

::Thanks guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:02, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

:Just to clarify, the Colt automatic rifle, LSW and LMG are all the same weapon. The original version that looks like the one above was the Colt Model 750, which featured a fixed A2 carry handle and barrel mounted bi-pod, and the newer version above is the current production Model 950, with the relocated bi-pod and A4 rear sights. As you said, the folding carry handle is removeable, and the picture on the Colt website is just one without it fitted (note the longer centre vent on the top of the handguard is the mounting point for the handle). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:48, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

::The original version was based on M16A1:

::[[File:M16A1 CAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

::The one you described was based on M16A2:

::[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Guys, remember back in the 1980s when Colt was trying to vie for the SAW role? Sure the FN Minimi was never knocked off its perch, but Colt came out with a Colt light Machine gun that looked a lot like this. They were selling the barreled uppers on the market for a while in the early 1990s (I know a few friends who have them, but I never got one). This looks like that reincarnated!!! LOL![[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:24, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

:Well, that's all written on [http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/m16-lsw-lmg-e.html Modern Firearms] :P

::Ah yes, you only read about it monkeyboy ;) I was handling and firing that sucker! LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:11, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, and I've found articles of why AR is more advantageous than SAW to US Marine Corps:

:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-employment-concepts M249 Employment Concepts]
:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-light-machinegun-automatic-rifle-role The M249 Light Machinegun In The Automatic Rifle Role]

:Interesting reading, methinks :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 30 April 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah it was. :) You know, I kinda knew LMGs were dying out. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:07, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Not overall, it's just the role they are being used in (automatic rifleman). SAW is still very good in defensive role and laying fire on attacking forces ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

== Heat Dissipation Performance of Carbine Barrel Types? ==

I was wondering, does anyone know what kind of effects the 'cuts' (originally meant for the mounting of the M203 grenade launcher) in the barrel of the M4 and similiarly-styled M16 & AR-15 series carbines has on the heat dissipation performance of the barrel? Do the cuts help the weapon release heat from prolonged firing better than a barrel that has a uniform thickness, or does it hamper that? Any input anyone can provide on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:46, 8 May 2011 (CDT)
:The step down for the grenade launcher is actually pretty negligible in terms of cooling (although it does create a point of weakness to bending), as what you can't see is the fact that as soon as the barrel goes under the handguard it is reduced down to the same narrow diameter as in the cut out, which creates a much bigger effect on cooling. The narrower profile sections have the effect of cooling down the barrel quicker, but they also conversely mean that the barrel heats up quicker, and the heat has a larger effect on the accuracy of the gun. The main advantage however is that it reduces the weight quite a bit. The original reason that the M4 barrel reduces in size behind the handguard is based on the M16A2, which does exactly the same thing where its heavy barrel is actually only thicker past the front sight. This was due to a cock up in the design, where they designed the gun with a full thickness straight barrel, and found that they could then no longer clamp the M203 to the barrel, so the barrels were simply turned down from behind the front sight post. The front of the barrel was left thick due to the fact that the thinner barrels on the M16A1 were being bent at the front from being used as pry-bars to get the loading bands off of shipping pallets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:There is a heavier "SOCOM-profile" barrel that maintains the same diameter beneath the handguards as the standard M4-profile barrel does around the M203 cut and it can mount the M203 just fine.[http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BCM-URG-M4-14SOCOM-2.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:40, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== can you tell me what model of m16/car 15 this is ==

sorry i do not have a pic but i can tell you what is like. me and my dad were talikng about some of the guns he used in the army and he was telling me about this one he said was like an carbine version of the m16a2 and it was like the m4 but had a fixed carring handle and it was used befor the m4 it had safe semi and burst and he said it just had ar15 on the side.-Steviebleckley

:Sounds like the first batch of M4s that were delivered. This is the Colt Model 777, which is basically an M4 with a fixed carry handle, and 3-round burst as opposed to full auto. It is the brother of and visually identical to the 727 mentioned on the main page, where the 727 as full auto as opposed to the burst. If it didn't have the M4 profile barrel though, god knows. Probably a model 654 on an M16 lower receiver or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:02, 13 June 2011 (CDT)

yes it had the same profile as the m4. i gess it was the 777.I will show him the pic of the the 727 since there the same well the 727 is full auto thanks for the info - Steviebleckley

== Question about the buffer tube ==

I'm not one hundred percent sure what it does, and (like the forward assist) that almost no other guns have it. If someone could just clarify, what does it do, why does this rifle series have it, and why don't others/what replaces the buffer tube in other rifles? Thank you in advance. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:27, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
:Basically, it was installed in order to slow down the rate of fire. The very first M16s ended up using a different ammunition powder than they were designed for, which caused a higher rate of fire than desired (about 800 to 1000 rpm I think), leading to excessive fouling in the chamber, and hence lots of stopages. From the M16E1 onwards a buffer tube was added to slow the rate of fire to about 600-700 rpm, and a chrome lined chamber and barrel was added as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:47, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
I'm not sure if this is practical in any way, or even possible, but is their a way to increase the rate of fire on an M16 without the problems of the carbon build-up in the chamber?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)
:Why would you want to increase the rate of fire? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)
No reason, just wondering if it's even possible with a full-auto M16.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 08:09, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:Probably, I see no reason why you couldn't. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm assuming the reason that the high rate of fire caused fouling was that the rate of fire was so quick that the bolt was unlocking and opening before all the powder was fully burnt in the chamber, leaving residue. I'd imagine that you could increase the rate of fire by removing the buffer, and just make sure that whatever powder you were using was fully burnt in the time it takes the bolt to open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:29, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::That would make sense, since I heard the nightmare version of that was when the gas pressure was still holding the spent case in place while the extractor was trying to eject it, which tended to result in Horrible Things happening to the case while it was still inside the rifle. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

This might be a silly question, but why is it that the AR-15 design required the buffer tube, and other rifles do not? Is it just located differently, and if so why? It just strikes me that the lack of a folding stock option is a poor design, especially when compared to most assault rifles designed today, SCAR, ACR, etc. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:57, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm guessing here, but from what I've read it's that the rifle had already been designed, so they had to work inside the box, as it were. The only options were either to make the components of the action a lot heavier so their momentum prevented the weapon cycling too fast (which would rather defy the point of using a lightweight aluminium receiver and suchlike) or add something on to slow it down, which is what they did. Rifles designed since have been designed from the ground up to avoid this kind of problem, so don't need to have a tube attached to a hole in the back of the receiver to fix them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:The buffer tube does two things: 1) contains the buffer and spring and 2) allows the bolt carrier to recoil part of the way into it. The combination means that the AR15-series rifles are functionally a long-recoil design where the bolt does not slam into anything rigid during recoil and stops based on the pressure of the buffer spring. This--in turn--enhances the straight-line recoil and therefore controllability during automatic fire or rapid semi-automatic fire. It also allows the AR15 design to use the rear of the bolt carrier to actuate the automatic sear meaning the probability in this design that you can set a round off with the bolt unlocked during automatic fire is nil. (Look up some of the problems with the "Lightning Link" to get a better idea of why this works the way it does.)

:Other designs often do incorporate additional recoil buffers in the stock, the FN FAL's without folding stocks do this and the plastic-stocked SAW's, but the AR15 design simply trades the ability to fold a stock for enhanced recoil handling... The idea behind the design was to make a weapon where the entire recoil force is in a direct line between your shoulder and the end of the barrel with as little jarring as possible. This is also one reason for the use of a direct gas impingement system and one reason why gas-piston AR's tend to eat the front of the buffer tube and buffer tube area of the lower receiver due to bolt carrier "tilt". The "lateral" forces of the piston tapping the top of the bolt carrier misaligns the bolt carrier off its straight line path and pushes that chunk of steel into the aluminum.

:Oh, and the forward assist is to compensate for not having a rigidly connected bolt handle. (Like someone already mentioned). The reason why is the design is meant to be operated in a manner where you ONLY use the charging handle for initial loading and then unloading at the end (administratively). Every other time, you actuate the bolt using the bolt release on the left side of the weapon... --[[User:Deathbunny|Deathbunny]] 01:28, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Noob Question ==

Ok I have a really dumb question, what is the difference between the Colt M4A1 and the Colt M4A1 Carbine? Or are they the same exact thing? The only reason I asked is when I was looking at the page, the M4A1 and the M4 Carbine look exactly the same, so how can you tell one from the other? - [[User:1morey]] July 22, 2011 11:21 AM (EST)

: The M4A1 and M4A1 'Carbine' are the same thing, the 'carbine' is just optionally showing the proper firearm type. As for the M4 and M4A1, well it ''does'' say the difference in the section but to answer - the M4 has Safe-Semi-Burst fire selection ala the M16A2/M16A4, the M4A1 has full-automatic instead of burst, ala the earlier M16s/M16A1/M16A3. Otherwise they're pretty much identical appearance wise (The M4A1 also has a heavier barrel inside the handguard, which of course you can't tell from the outside). It also notes some commercial AR-15 carbines are given an 'M4' moniker, but aren't the same as actual military M4s. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 12:17, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt or not? ==

If a M4 or M16 variant is listed on a page, should it by prefixed by Colt? I've noticed some people doing this but isn't it incorrect as the term M16 is the army designation as opposed to the Colt name (for example the Colt Model 603 for the M16A1). Either way, I would imagine that quite a few M16s or M4s in movies are manufactured by companies other than Colt, and even the US military rifles are not necessarily made by Colt these days. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:43, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:I am curious... if the military M4 and M16 are not made by Colt these days then by whom? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:58, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::There was a stretch in the 1990s when Colt lost the military contract and all the M16s were built by Fabrique Nationale (FN). Though many companies build AR15 platforms, only the company who has the contract with the Dept. of Defense can call the M16 theirs. If there ARE any other manufacturers being represented on the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq, someone needs to find out. I certainly don't have any contacts who would know information which is THAT current. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:48, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::FN have stated that “the vast majority of M16A2, A3 and A4 contracts as well as spare parts contracts for these systems since 1989”, and they had a $7 million contract to make M16A4s between 2005 and 2008. Sabre defence also won a contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles in July 2008 for the US navy/Marine corps respectively. Having said that FN also stated: ”...never was FN Manufacturing LLC, or any other small arms manufacturer, awarded M4 contracts. The M4 cannot be competed and always has been awarded sole source to Colt because of licensing rights restricting full and open competition until 2009” although it has stated its intention to bid for M4 contracts past this point. The US government took ownership of the M4 design on the 1st July 2009, so the M4 can now be manufactured for the government by other companies, but I don't know if this has actually been done yet. Regardless, M4 and M16 are government designations, so surely calling a gun a "Colt M4" is incorrect? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:09, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Just checked the United States Army [http://www.army.mil/features/ official website]. It lists [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m4.html M4 Carbine] as being manufactured by Colt and [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m16.html M16 Rifle] by Colt and Fabrique Nationale.
::::Oh, and take a note of M16: ''"The '''M-16A3''' is identical to the M-16A2 but has a removable carrying handle that is mounted on a Picatinny Rail (for better mounting of optics) and is without burst control. The '''M-16A4''' is identical to the M-16A2 except for the removable carrying handle and Picatinny Rail."''
::::United States Marine Corps websites: [http://www.marines.mil/] [http://www.marines.com/] don't mention the current manufacturer for [http://www.marines.com/main/index/winning_battles/gear/weapons_and_equipment/m16 M16 Rifle]. So I am not sure about them. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Just to throw a bit of confusion in here, there are actually a number of different rifles designated as the M16A3 by the US military. The first is the Colt Model 646, also known as the M16A2E3, which was introduced in small numbers at the same time as the M16A2 and is an A2 with an A1 lower. Then you have the flat-top Colt Model 901 which was introduced at the same time as the M16A4 (in 1994 I think) and I'm assuming this is the version that the above page refers to. You also have the Colt Models 941 and 942 which are the HBAR and HBAR LMG models respectively, but I don't know if they are used. Not that any of this really matters as we identify all these guns as A2/A4 anyway. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Well, that's because armorers don't have access to military M16A3s, so they just slap A2/A4 uppers to A1 lowers (correct?) because what Hollywood film director would want fixed burst firing gun (ignoring the fact that that's what soldiers and marines use) ? Or modify civilian semi-automatic replicas to fully automatic fire. In which case the weapon is to be identified as such. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:54, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Didn't mean to imply we are doing anything wrong, just that the definition of the A3 models isn't that important as they don't appear. Having said that, the original M16A3/M16A2E3 was just an A2 upper on an A1 lower, so this is actually what a number of movie guns are, but I understand that they are going for a standard A2. Regardless, back to my original question, do we call them Colt or not? My opinion is no obviously, as it seems that some if not the majority of M16s are manufactured by other companies, and there is the future possibility of this with M4, and regardless it is a military designation of a rifle that goes by another Colt name. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:31, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::My opinion: M4 & M4A1 should remain as Colt. And so should older M16s. Modern M16s (M16A3 & M16A4), since they have ''at least'' 3 official manufacturers (Colt, Fabrique Nationale and Sabre Defence), should go without Colt. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:37, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== How to NOT shoot an M16 rifle! ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI] - Seriously, this is either really funny, or just painful to watch... you decide. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:19, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, that was bad. Glad that guy's alright! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:46, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::Also, notice how many times the gun clicks and the guy keeps saying it's a "bad primer". And then he keeps hitting the forward assist, pulling on the charging handle (which is seen ejecting the unfired rounds) and hitting the bottom of the magazine even though it's already back in the gun after he kept taking it out and putting it back in prior (Someone else in the video even says 'Jesus [name withheld], you don't know how to load these.' and the shooter responds with 'I didn't load these, [name withheld] did.'). I think that could have been a contribution to the gun exploding in his hands. But then again, I'm not the expert on M16 rifles, I'm only guessing. Anyone else got a better explanation? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 17:05, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
:::It was the shooter saying that the guy who came to help didn't know how to load them, and then that assisting guy said it was someone else. There is nothing wrong with tapping the magazine even when it appears to be seated correctly, as it makes sure it is all the way into the well. Although he did hit forward assist unnecesarily once or twice, I don't think it would have done any harm or contributed to the kaboom. The file description and all the comments say that this was a squib, and it was all the shooters fault for not identifying it and checking the barrel (there are also quite a few people that seem to think it is possible the load 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber at a time by repeatedly pulling the charging handle, but this is Youtube after all). But I don't think it was, as on the first misfire there was only the click of the hammer, and when he pulled the bolt back a round was ejected which wouldn't have been chambered if the previous "bang" was a squib. I've never fired a round with primer but no powder, but surely there would still be an audible "bang" rather than just the click of the hammer? When exactly did the bullet get stuck in the barrel, or am I missing something? Regardless, I would never use ammo I hadn't loaded myself, particularly not done by a friend of a friend. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:33, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
::::I think it's safe to say that the idea of unintentionally loading 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber of an M16 rifle is an overstatement and pretty much absurd (I've NEVER heard of such a thing happening with the M16 rifles). But one person's explanation in the comments is that when the hammer struck the primers of the "squib" rounds, the 'click' in question was the popping of the primer, which popped with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of the gun, but without the 'bang' sound since the powder of the "squib" rounds were bad. So when the explosion happened, it was because the hammer struck a perfectly fine round, or one with enough charge in it's powder load, and that bullet impacted the other bullets stuck in the barrel, which caused a high-pressure situation ending with the magazine blowing apart, and leaving the M16 rifle damaged (probably for good). Talk about good craftsmanship going to waste! But at least the shooter in the video was not injured in any way. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:51, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::I could be wrong as have never done it myself (I am not a moron) but I am fairly sure that a primer going off with no powder in the round makes a louder noise than just a click, which is all that is heard in this video. Anyone know how loud just the primer from a .223 would be? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:05, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Apparently [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS1K1zJQhOQ this] is a .308 primer. Now bear in mind how far down the audio is turned (as you don't have to wear ear protection when he fires), I can ''kinda'' see that might end up sounding like a click. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:52, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Yeah, most of the time all cameras (except for maybe the professional ones used by filmmakers) capture certain sounds differently. It is possible for the primers of "squib" rounds to discharge with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of whatever gun it's fired from (and sometimes it will stay there until the owner disassembles their weapon and removes the lodged bullet), and most of the time, the "popping" sound of the primers sounds like a "click" when captured on a camera similar to the one used in the video of the M16 blowing up in that guy's face. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:28, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:I've seen this video before, looks like the guy was pulling a half-assed SPORTS drill several times while the weapon was malfunctioning on him. But yeah, shooting custom-loaded ammo with no reliable means of quality control is definitely not a good idea, as this video clearly demonstrates. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:52, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== Not working ==

Why is the M16 page not working. It locks up my computer, and the network wont respond. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes before it will work.[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:It might be your browser and / or RAM is having trouble with the size of it; this is the largest page on the site. What's the spec of your PC? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:03, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

==Difference between original M16 and M16A2==
I know how to distinguish XM16E1s, M16A1s, and M16A4s from each other, but how are both the M16 and the M16A2 different visually? Both rifles have no forward assist or removable carrying handles and the M16 can also appear with a "birdcage" flash hider. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:34, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:M16-SP1-30Mag.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|M16 aka SP1 (flat "slab side receiver") with an A1 "birdcage" Flash hider - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]

:I'll try. Also with the caveat that I have to replace the movie M16s on the site. An IMFDB member whom I am eternally grateful for, pointed out that I had A2 lowers on A1 uppers. Though that works, it's also not correct. I have to replace the M16 pics with exact versions of each one, but that will take time. I just point this out to make sure that people know I'm aware of it.

1) M16: original USAF contract in Vietnam and in the U.S. slab side upper and lower, 1st pattern duckbill three prong flash hider, original buttstock with foldable rear sling swivel. Early models had counter-turning screws in stead of pivot pins to attach the upper and lower receiver.

1) XM16E1: 2nd pattern three prong flash hider, Chromed bolt, exposed mag release button (no ribbing) but there is a partial rib for the front pivot detent pin and spring, old M16 style buttstock and rear sling swivel, tear drop forward assist.

2) M16A1: Birdcage Flash hider, Phosphate bolt but chromed chamber, mag release button ribbing to protect against accidental mag dump and full ribbing to the front pivot detent pin and spring, A1 style buttstock with fixed rear sling swivel (with stowaway compartment in the buttplate)

3) M16A2: A2 style flash hider with no holes on the lower part, ring washer instead of lock washer, heavy barrel, round forearm, full ribbing on mag release button and front pivot detent pin and spring, front part of lower receiver is beefier and thicker as well as the rear part near the base of the tube ring. Updated and longer (by about 1") rear buttstock and thicker buttplate, slight finger ledge on the pistol grip about midway down. Adjustable rear sights with elevation control as well as side to side. A2 does NOT have a detachable carry handle.

Hope this helps. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:26, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

:Don't forget that the M16A2 has semi/3-round burst as opposed to semi/full auto in the M16 (though you rarely see this feature used on-screen as most directors feel the full auto looks better than a 3-round burst). [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:15, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
No versions of the M16 has screws rather than push pins at the front of the receiver. The only rifles that have these are the Sporter 1 rifles (which is what all of the pictures on the main page are actually of). The M16s that pre-date the captive push pin (Models 601 and 602) have a large headed push pin that is held in place by a ball detent on the pin itself. Also, the "M16" category can be separated out into 3 different guns which the USAF used seqeuntially in turn. First is the original 601 which has green furniture, original "duckbill" flash hider and triangular charging handle (around 14,500 were made, 8,500 to USAF, 1,000 to the Army for evaluation and the rest to special forces, police, and a number of Asian countries). The 602 is the quintessential slab sided M16, and introduced the updated 3 pronged flash hider, black furniture, the current "T" shaped charging handle. The third "M16" is what is often called the USAF M16 and was the most produced variant, and was the Model 604. Early versions had the M16E1 type partial fence lower, whilst the later versions had the M16A1 full fence lower, and these weapons continued to be used by Air Force until 2001, when all M16s were updated to the A2 standard. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:58, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
::Cool! Thanks [[User:Commando552|commando552]] As I've said before, I pulled movie armory weapons. Very rarely do I get access to actual firearms museums, but then 99% of the full auto guns were probably sporter conversions, since it was much easier to convert a title I to a class III gun prior to 1986. I have a LONG laundry list of photos to update thanks to you guys! ;) But the information helps. Also only in recent months have i realized how many franken guns were built in the 1970s/80s and 90s on the M16 platform. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:24, 21 October 2011 (CDT)

Pics of the different M16s I mentioned above:
[[File:Colt 601.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 601 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt 602.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 602 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:USAF Colt Model 604.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 604 (USAF M16) - 5.56x45mm]]
--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:48, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

== Historical Question ==

Anyone knows why XM177 never dropped the 'X' letter in it? If 'X' usually implies the prototype and testing stage, then why did XM177 have it with both upgrades and use in service, and the jamming M16s in Vietnam didn't? Or some other reasons? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:02, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Ignoring the USAF rifles (which got official GAU designations) the US Army only purchased a few thousand XM177s and the kinks were never really ironed out, so it is fair to call it an XM program still. Rifle was still in development stages really when US Army cut the funding due to Vietnam war involvement being scaled back.. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:27, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

::Were the Colt Commandos used in Somalia much more refined versions of XM177 program? If yes, I wonder why they were not put back in official service... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Do you have a pic of them, not sure what rifles you are talking about. If you are talking about the Model 733, that is not really related to the XM177s. US forces purchased a small number of Model 733s for Special Forces and was called the M16A2 commando, although Colt later offered it as the M4 Commando. Rangers and Delta in Somalia also used both Model 723s (A1 rear sight a straight barrel) and 727s (A2 rear sight with M4 profile barrel) and these weapons were known initially as M16A2 carbines, before morphing into the M4. Till the early 90s there were still some Model 653s (called the M16A1 carbine) and XM177s with the long moderators replaced with birdcages knocking around as well, so there were probably a lot of different guns knocking around Somalia. These guns were not refinements though, they were guns from the 60/70s that were still being used due to the fact that the US Army did not produce a standard issue carbine till the M4. I'm not even gonna mention the franken-guns that would have been used by the USAF special forces at the time. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:08, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Ah, thanks, that explains it. [http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/449652_going_for_a_1993_Somalia_car15_build_and_need_your_help.html Here are the various photos]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:26, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Carbine/Model 653/Model 727/Model 733 ==

Firstly, forgive my ignorance in things regarding the variety of AR-15 models. In the model description it says that it was 'never adopted formally by the US Military, and thus never had an "M" or "XM" designation.' However, in the following section where it lists the movies in which we can find this rifle it is often found as the M653. Can someone more knowledgeable either clear up why there is this discrepancy? Thanks --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:34, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Editors (and video game developers) often confuse the 'Model', 'M' and 'MK' designations. M653 should be changed to Model 653. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:14, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::Correct. Model "___" is the official COLT designation and usually comes first. Only when the weapon is adopted as an official front line weapon does it get the "M" designation. And all these minutia of details in the weapons history STILL gives me a headache! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:01, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

:::So does that mean we need to clean up this section to take all the 'M's away?--[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 08:11, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::::I've replaced the "M"s with Models --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:22, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Model 978 ==

'''I took this from Wikipedia, so it might be wrong.''' A lot of video games like to portray the M4A1 with additional burst mode. I read that the Colt Model 978 (a.k.a. "M4 Carbine Enhanced") is an M4 that features a S-1-3-F trigger group. I wonder how popular this variant was/is and most importantly when was it finalized and released? (if it was ever) - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:15, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:The four position fire selector weapons were adopted by nobody as far as I know, with the exception of Greece who bought the Model 778 (don't know how widespread this was, have just seen a few in some pics), which is basically a Model 727 with the four position selector. You can actually buy parts for a four position selectors, sears and disconnectors from Colt, so guns can be modified to this standard. However, I guarantee you that no guns in games actually have the correct four position selector, as it looks different to the standard one. Can't find any pics right now, but the four position selector is a flat plate with a ridge along the centre that ends in an odd knurled dome, sort of like a citrus juicer.

:I have also heard of US Special Forces having the four posiiton M4A1s (Model 978), but may just be rumors, and if true there are very few of them and certainly not widespread. They could also be modifications to standard M4s. Below is a pic of the side of a Model 738 M4 Commando Enhanced (Model 733 with the four position selector) showing the selector switch design.

:--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:37, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:[[File:Colt Model 738.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 738 "M4 Commando Enhanced" fire selector.]]

:Which games portray the M4A1 with additional burst mode, for example? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:40, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

::Ghost Recon features the normal A1 and the "M4 SOCOM" which has the bonus burst mode. Same in The Sum of All Fears game (both Tom Clancy games). Cannot think of any other games right now. (Maybe I was a little exaggerating when I wrote "a lot of" since in most games you can't even toggle the rof.) So, according to what commando552 wrote, it is possible that the M4A1 with S-1-3-F group in Ghost Recon was intentional, since you control a (fictional) U.S. special force. (And the correct trigger groups: We (at least I) don't take the selectors into account, since in most games you cannot even see them, or are set to safe while the gun goes all rock&roll.)- [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:55, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, yeah, the universe of Tom Clancy is the one where the prototypes and ultra rare things come true, including weapons and vehicles, so the presence of AR-15-type firearm with four-position selector switch shouldn't come as surprise ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:48, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Bozitojugg3rn4ut, the selector really should be taken into account, as apart from the receiver markings the selector switch is the only external difference between the regular Colt carbines and the Enhanced version with burst and auto. If it has the regular fire selector and lacks the markings on the receiver, then it is simply and M4 with the wrong fire control group. Is very hard to tell from the Ghost Recon screen shots as there aren't any of the relevant side, but you can just make out that there are only 3 positions marked on the right side of the receiver, making the physical model that of a regular M4/M4A1 rather than an Enhanced M4. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:09, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

Interestingly, this discussion is the first result when one Googles "Colt Model 978". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:05, 19 December 2011 (CST)

== Main Page ==

There are 2 issues:

1) Shouldn't it be called AR-15, since ArmaLite AR-15 is the weapon that started it all?

2) There is at least 1 not-rifle on the page: [[M16 rifle series#Colt 9mm Submachine Gun|Colt 9mm Submachine Gun]]

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:58, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

:I agree, AR-15 makes much more sense to me. I would call the page "AR-15 Variants", gets rid of the problem that "M16" is only relevant 5 or 6 of the 30 or so guns on the page, and the fact that rifle is not necessarily the correct term for all of them. I'm not sure how the site mechanics work, but would changing the name of the page create a massive problem for the 1000+ pages that link here, or would the redirects sort it all out? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:44, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

::Need to contact admins and ask them about this. I support your version, as more appropriate one. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:17, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Though you are technically correct, M16 is the most widely recognized nomenclature for the weapons that appear in films. Remember that we are not a gun encyclopedia, we are a weapons in MOVIE/TV/et al wiki. Sure, we utilized those rules of starting with the original weapon when it came to more obscure weapons (like grouping the R4s in with the Galils), but really famous weapons have their own pages, weapons that a firmly entrenched with their own identity in the mind of the movie going public. We also did not start a StG-44 page and then branch the AK-47s out from that even though the AKs obviously were a stepchild of the StG-44 Design theory. Very rarely are guns 'presented' as AR-15s in media. In fact many movie goers don't even recognize the term. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:13, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

::::I don't remember many movies where the character says: "Here is my M16!" or where the weapon is listed in closing credits :\
::::The reason for AK-47 not being on the same page as StG-44 is having completely different design. AK-47 was ''inspired'' by StG project, nothing more. There are a lot of weapons that bear a ''resemblance'' to AK-47 or AR-15 but have different design and thus their own page. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 31 October 2011 (CDT)
::::'''P.S.''' Imagine IMFDB consisting of pages: ''"M1911"'', ''"Desert Eagle"'', ''"MP5"'', ''"Garand"'', ''"M14"'', ''"M16"'', ''"AK-47"'', ''"Everything Else"'' :D

::::Now, [http://kingshamus.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/official.jpg THIS] made me laugh xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:34, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== What is the point of the Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Every time I look at it just seems so useless. I mean, why would anyone want what is essentially an M4 that does less damage with less range? Recoil would be lower I presume, but I cant see an M4 having a gigantic amount of recoil. I'm sure someone could help provide me with some insight but at the moment I'm finding it very hard pressed to find a purpose of this thing. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 14:20, 14 December 2011 (CST)
:I imagine it had more to do with some guys at Colt wanting to get in on the 9mm subgun market but not wanting to design an entire new platform to do it with. The 9mm round also gives you less penetration, which is good if, say, you're trying to shoot the guy you're aiming at only rather than him and the three things behind him. This is why the majority of people who actually use it are police or police-like units. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:42, 14 December 2011 (CST)
::The main advantage of it is that it is an SMG with the same ergonomics as an AR-15 platform, which makes training easier. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 14 December 2011 (CST)
:::9mm is much easier to suppress compared to 5.56. But Evil Tim's answer about Colt not wanting to design a whole new SMG is probably the right one.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:13, 14 December 2011 (CST)

== M4 Scope optics ==

Can someone give me some info on what is the standard scope optic for the military, and what is the best scope optic to use on the M4? i was just curious--Gunner5

:Which military? The M4 is used by a number of them in some capacity. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:53, 19 December 2011 (CST)

U.S. Military.--Gunner5

:The most common, I would think, are the ACOG and Aimpoint RDS, but just about any optic can be used on it. As far as what's the best optic to use, "best" is a relative term and depends on the individual shooter and what he/she prefers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:01, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::Not to mention different optics are more effective in certain situations than others; most ACOGs typically use 4x magnification and are effective for engaging targets at a distance, while red dot sights don't use magnification and are more suited for close-range engagements. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:21, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

== USE WITH S.A.S ==

Why does the S.A.S use the M16A2 as their standard rifle? In Bravo Two Zero (the book), Andy McNab calls the M16A2 a 4x4, and the SA80 a Rolls-Royce. Looking back, the S.A.S have a history of using foreign weapons. Why is this? Do Britain not make good enough weapons? Sure, the only thing we currently make and export are Accuraccy International's (which are the best sniper rifles in the world, and I don't care what anyone else says. It strikes me as strange, though, why the S.A.S use the AW50 and not the AS50 as their heavy-caliber sniper rifle), but why do the S.A.S have to use American weapons? Why not use German?

:"...''have'' to use American weapons?" You have some kind of grudge against American weapons or something? :P In any case, the events of ''Bravo Two Zero'' took place during the first Gulf War, so I really doubt they're still using M16A2s in this age of optics and rail systems. It's my understanding that their ''current'' "standard" long gun is the C8FTHB carbine, which is essentially an M4A1 with a 16" barrel of different profile to that of a standard M4. As to why, well, they use what they ''want'' to use, whether it be British, American, German, whatever. Much like their American counterparts in CAG and DEVGRU, they have the leeway and budget to get a little bit of everything because their mission calls for it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 7 January 2012 (CST)

::The SAS adopted the M16 as a replacement for the 7.62 L1A1 SLR which was the standard British rifle at the time. The SLR was superior in terms of reliability, accuracy and range, but the M16 had a major weight advantage in terms of both the weapon and the ammunition, could mount a grenade launcher, and was capable of automatic fire (so was the SLR, but a match was required to be inserted into the action). One of the reasons they continued to use it after the introduction of the SA80 rifles was due to initial reliability problems, along with the fact that until relatively recently the SA80 culd not use an underbarrel grenade launcher (M16s were also used by other units, such as some Royal Marine units and the Pathfinders). Don't really know the exact reason why the SAS (along with Military Police and Royal Marine close protection along with a few others) use the C8SFW/CQB rather than the SA80 but would imagine it is partially due to the lower weight and the modularity of the SFW (bear in mind that the SA80 didn't have a railed forened until a few years ago and has only just gotten a MIL-STD-1913 on the top for different sights). Unlike the M16s adopted before, the C8 has actually been officially adopted by the MOD as the L119A1 (both the SFW and the CQB share the same designation though). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:17, 7 January 2012 (CST)

:::L119A1 is the official designation for C8 SFW in British SF service. C8 CQB is just its variant. An analogy would be M4A1 (official service) and Colt Commando (unofficial service). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:50, 8 January 2012 (CST)
::::The Colt Commando moniker has never been attached to the M4, it's been primarily used to refer to previous A1-pattern carbines like the XM177 series. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:30, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::Colt currently markets the Model 933 as the M4 Commando, and several models have the "M4 Commando" rollmarks on the left side of the lower receiver as well. It is a bit messed up though also being stamped as the "M16A2 Commando" (making no sense as it is a flattop), or simply "M4LE" on law enforcement Commandos. The Commandos in particular demonstrate the practice of cobbling guns together from whatever bits are available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:44, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
::::::Colt adopted the M4 designation as a marketing ploy, the 11.5" 933 isn't used by the military in any capacity that I know of and not likely to start since those that need shorter barrels already have access to even ''shorter'' 10.3" CQBR URGs and 10.5" Mark 18s, neither of which are M4s since they don't match the physical specs of an M4. Heck, I can pull up a pic of a flat-topped GUU-5/P that to the untrained (or uncaring) eye would be identified as an M4A1, but isn't because it uses a slab-sided pre-A1 lower receiver. A lot of M4A1s in use by SOCOM units also can't technically by Colt naming standards be considered M4s since SOCOM now has 12.5" URGs for use on M4 lowers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:55, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::::Delta Force used the weapon, when it was known as 'M16A2 Commando' (CAR-15 in article), in Somalia.[http://www.guns.com/the-us-special-forces-and-their-guns-and-gear-or-at-least-the-stuff-we-know-about.html] I'd also recommend to get the book "Weapons of Delta Force" by Fred Pushies.
:::::::Force Recon also knows Model 733 as 'Colt Commando'.[http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm]
:::::::In essence, more modern (meaning, without older parts) M4 CQBR and M4 Commando are just that. M4 Carbine with shorter barrel. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:52, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

::::Another reason the SAS don't use the SA80 is because you cannot use it in your left hand and they prefer to be able to use a weapon in both hands as it's better for shooting from behind cover. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:12, 12 February 2012 (CST)

:::"Why not use German?" Aside from the fact that if you say SAS most people with think of "Black Kit" with an MP5, there is still some rumours flying around about them using the 416 and 417. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:30, 13 February 2012 (CST)

::::Probably thrown around by HK's PR department, they sold a ton of MP5s off the back of the SAS using them to break up the Iranian Embassy Siege. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:20, 13 February 2012 (CST)

:::::Using the HK416 might be BS, but British Special Forces do use the HK417. It was bought a few years ago as a DM rifle before the army got the L129A1. It was also more widely tested by the Royal Marines in the role, but was replaced when the L129A1 was adopted. [http://www.eliteukforces.info/images/gallery/uksf/sfsg-multicam-hr.jpg Here] is a photo of an SFSG team, the guy second from the left in the first row has a suppressed HK417. They guy behing may also have one, but can only make out the stock so could be another AR-15 pattern rifle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:51, 13 February 2012 (CST)
::::::He's got a Minimi Para with a PIP stock like the guy second from the right in the front row; you can see the iron sight against his shirt. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:50, 13 February 2012 (CST)

== Page Title ==

While this page contains many weapons based on the AR-15, shouldn't it be called "AR-15 family of weapons" or something like than rather that just "M16 rifle series"? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 12:36, 15 February 2012 (CST)
:Look 4 topics above this one. If it was up to me I would call it "AR-15 rifle series" or something like that, but MPM2008 made the point that although this would be technically correct the average person coming to site would be much more familiar with the term M16, which is fair enough. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:53, 15 February 2012 (CST)

== Sniper Rifles? ==

How are we defining "Sniper Rifles" for [[:Category:Sniper Rifle]]. It seems to me that all the guns on this page are Assault Rifles. I know that you can certainly convert an M16 to a sniper rifle but all the images seem to be of Assault rifles. Just curious! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:47, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:The main rifle on here that I would class as a sniper rifle is the Mk 12 SPR but there are also the Vietnam-era M16 sniper variants, the Model 655 and 656. There are also some "target" AR-15s like the Colt Accurized Rifle and the Match Target Competitions that I would probably class as sniper rifles if I had to put them into a category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:21, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:::Sadly, it seems that Colt has discontinued the Colt Accurized Rifle for the time being. I checked my old link on the [[SWAT 4]] page and it no longer works, nor is the Colt Accurized Rifle anywhere to be found on their product page sections of their website (maybe it just couldn't compete with similar products from other companies?). I was hoping the Colt Accurized Rifle would have been included on this page--I guess that won't be the case now, for how can a firearm be included here on this wiki if it failed to make much of an impact (to the point that it was discontinued) and thus won't be in many pieces of audio-visual media? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:57, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
::I missed the Mk 12 SPR. I 100% agree with you on that one, that is DEFINATELY a sniper. Thanks for clarifying! Any change we could could put a definition on the [[:Category:Sniper Rifle]] page like the one that is on the [[:Category:Assault Rifle]] page? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:28, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

::The 655 and 656 were full-auto capable, so I wouldn't exactly lump them in as sniper rifles. Same goes for the Mark 12, if you want to get technical. The Mark 12 grew out of a program to create a SOPMOD upper receiver component that the shooter could switch out with his M4 upper when in need of increased range and accuracy. So in its original form, the SPR was still technically an assault rifle (and as such it's still frequently used in that manner by SOF who switch out uppers on full-auto lowers), it just had a high-magnification scope, and we all know that just sticking a scope on an AR doesn't make it a sniper rifle. It didn't lose its full auto capability until it was type-classified as an individual weapon. Mark 12s in regular grunts' hands would likely be dedicated sniper rifles, but those you see in use by SOF are more than likely just SPR uppers on M4 lowers. There's a similar distinction between Mark 18s (complete type-classified weapon with 10.5" uppers on refurbished M16A1 lowers) and "M4A1 CQBRs" (10.3" uppers on M4 lowers). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:55, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:::Just because something has full automatic capability doesn't mean it is not a sniper rifle. It is unusual and arguably unnecessary, but as far as I know there is no official definition of what a sniper rifle does and does not have. In my opinion it is a sniper rifle if it is designed for and used in the sniping role. Hell, you can even call small caliber stuff like the Ruger 10/22 a sniper rifle as it has been used as one. For the purposes of this site though, I think the category should be used if the rifle ''appears'' to be a sniper rifle to the average user who might be trying to identify something. In other words, a catch all term for sniper, designated marksman, target and hunting rifles. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 21:14, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:I was under the impression that a dedicated sniper rifle had to have (at a minimum) a scope, be chambered in a full-size rifle round (so as to allow for accurate distant shots with high stopping power, a key part of sniping), be ergonomically suited for use while prone (i.e., its magazine must not be so large as to create an obstruction when lying on the ground on your stomach, and preferably have a bipod) and allow for accurate semi-automatic/bolt-action fire (fully-automatic or burst-fire is possible but counter-productive for accurate long-range shots, and such capability is usually reserved for Designated Marksmen who must travel with a squad and still keep some close-quarters firepower if necessary). So something like the VSS Vintorez wouldn't count because its round is short-ranged (up to 400 meters only given its subsonic velocity, so it's more of an accurized "special purpose" assault rifle), while the SVD would, due to its scope, 7.62x54mmR caliber, small magazine size to ensure it doesn't get in the way when used while prone (I'm very confused as to why the Soviets never put a bipod on the SVD, however), and semiautomatic-only nature. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:57, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
::As we only have the sniper rifle category here, I would class the VSS Vintorez as such, as it is designed as a suppressed sniper rifle. By virtue of the fact that it is suppressed it uses a lower power shorter range cartridge than a typical sniper rifle, but not all sniping is long range. If you were to use an integrally suppressed [[Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_series#Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_Suppressed|AWS]] with subsonic ammunition the range would be limited like on the Vintorez, but that doesn't mean it is no longer a sniper rifle. In particular, for police and some special forces uses long range is not as important in a sniper rifle as accuracy and other considerations. Like I said before, silenced Ruger 10/22s have been used by special forces for almost silent sniping. Another example would be the Russian SV-99, which is a silent sniper rifle based on a .22LR biathlon rifle. Weapons like these are specialized sniper rifles, but they are still sniper rifles none the less. I'm not sure whether trying to make a fixed definition for a sniper rifle is a good idea, as you will always find exceptions. Not all "sniper rifles" even use telescopic sights, an example being the Barrett M82A2 which uses a 1x red dot sight as it was actually designed for shooting from the shoulder as a low cost anti helicopter weapon. Another rifle that breaks your definition would be the [[BMS Milcam Rifle Series|BMS Snicam]] which is undeniably a sniper rifle, but uses a 5.56mm cartridge from 20/30 round STANAG magazine. Different sniper rifles have wildly different characteristics depending on the specific task they are designed for. The only thing I can say about what should be in the sniper rifle category is if it looks like one, put it in there. This isn't an encyclopaedia, the idea of the categories is to help people identify unknown guns, so if it looks like a sniper rifle that is the category they will be looking in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:13, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

== About charging handle ==

From [http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/11/foghorn/ask-foghorn-what-does-a-forward-assist-do/ The Truth About Guns]:

''"Ever since, part of the military’s manual of arms for loading the M16 and its variants includes a mandatory smacking of the charging handle even if it isn’t necessary."''

Is it about racking the charging handle? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:51, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

:That is a mistake, smacking the charging handle does nothing on an AR-15. As it had previously been talking about the introduction of the forward assist (the button on the right rear of the upper receiver), I assume it is meant to say ''"Ever since, part of the military’s manual of arms for loading the M16 and its variants includes a mandatory smacking of the '''forward assist''' even if it isn’t necessary."'' --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:01, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

::Ah, thanks for the explanation. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:50, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

== AKM front sight on an M16? ==

Was just doing a bunch more caps for the [[Bravo Two Zero]] page and came across this:
[[File:Bravo Two Zero (3634).jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
This is the SP1 that is carried by Baz (Ian Curtis) fitted with a CM203 launcher but it looks as if (to me at least) it is fitted with an AKM front sight. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before or know of after-market parts that look like this? This seems like an absolutely random modifications for an armourer to do to a rifle, only thing I can think of would be if the sight on the gun wa damaged during filming so they slapped this on. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:40, 2 April 2012 (CDT)
::The movie was filmed completely in South Africa. Could the SA armorers be using any Vektor rifles disguised as American guns? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
:::I really need to get around to updating the page to show it, but the weapon is a straight SP1 apart from the front sight so it isn't a Vektor. You can actually see the existing M16 gas block, and this looks like the top part of the gas block/sight has been sawed off and an AKM sight welded on. As it switches between a regular SP1 and this one with the cobbled together sight, I'm guessing that the rifle was broken part way during shooting and an AKM sight was the only vaguely suitable spare part they could get their hands on. I've actually taken a bundh of caps for this film bu have forgotten about them till now, will try and add them later to show what I mean. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:44, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== RAS on M16A4 ==
What is this rail system?
[[Image:M16A4withANPEQ&ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
It doesn't appear to be a KAC M5 RAS because it lacks the cut-out in the upper half to accommodate the M203 barrel clamp. If you don't know what I mean, zoom in on the front sight area in this pic and notice how the side rails are shorter than the top and bottom [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/USMC_M16A4_Rifle.JPG]. I've only seen this kind of rail on airsoft M16s. Is the rail in MPM's image above an airsoft replica? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:17, 13 April 2012 (CDT)

:I was having hard time trying to find that specific handguard... While it looks very similar to the KAC's M5, maybe IT IS an airsoft replica, though not 100% sure. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:27, 30 May 2012 (CDT)
::Nope it is NOT an airsoft replica. Those rails are REAL and damned heavy as well. :D I think on this particular gun it had an aftermarket rail system. Not all guns on screen have KAC Rails. I will hunt down the rifle and take more detailed pics of the rails. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:15, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== "M4 Commando" ==

Both Model 933 and Mk 18 Mod 0 sections mention that the M4 Commando is not an official designations. I don't really understand this, as that is how Colt calls it on their webpage. [http://www.colt.com/ColtMilitary/Products/ColtM4CommandoR0923CQB.aspx]- [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:07, 12 May 2012 (CDT)
:About the Model 933, when they were first offered I'm not sure if they were marketed as "M4 Commandos" but they definitely are now. In fact, they even have "M4 Commando" stamped on the magazine well. The Mk 18 is a different kettle of fish, as that is not an "official" colt model and is just put on whatever lower receiver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:37, 12 May 2012 (CDT)

== Question ==
Why isn't the M16A3 listed on here and just about every other site.Just wanted to know?Is that its an unofficial variant or is it just a M16A2 that fires full-auto?--[[User:DJsputnik|DJsputnik]] 00:50, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:It's just an M16A2 with full-auto in place of burst. Almost all "M16A2s" in movies are essentially M16A3s since they're A2 uppers on older A1 or SP1 full-auto lowers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:57, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::Let's not forget that it can be flat-top also. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:05, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I'm noy sure if the full auto version of the A2 that people call the A3 was ever actually officially designated as the A3, but for clarity I tend to call it the Model 646 or M16A2E3 (which was its official name). I save the M16A3 name for the full auto version of the M16A4, the Model 901, whih is currently officially designated by the US as the M16A3. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:26, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Defense Industry Daily disagrees. [http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m-16-rifle-purchases-04517/] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:46, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::::The rifle that the DID article is referring to is the later Model 901. They may refer to it as a full auto version of the A2, but they also talk about the order from FN in 2007 for new A3s and A4s, which were definitely both using the flat top receiver. The flat top A3 was developed in the 90s with the A4, so rifles built in 2007 would not be to the old spec. That article is either unclear and is referring to two different models, or it is a typo (or just wrong) about referring to the "A3" they are talking about as being a full auto A2. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:08, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== Anyone recognise this variant? ==

I just came across this rifle on the ''[[Strike Back - Season 1]]'' page where it is listed as an M4A1:
[[File:Strikeback-M4-1.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
However, it isn't a Colt rifle as the flat top rail is higher than on a normal AR-15 pattern gun. Also, it has an A1 forward assist plunger, A1 lower receiver (although I imagine this is a replacement to allow full auto) and a non Colt stock (curved in front of the locking bolt as opposed to vertical, several companies like Tapco make their stocks like this). I've read somewhere on here (a ''[[Stargate]]'' page probably) that Olympic Arms flat top rifles have a higher scope rail compared to other AR-15s, is this one of them? I know bugger all about Olympic Arms rifles and can't seem to find many pictures of them, but all the ones I can find show them with a standard height rail, kind of like I can never find a picture of one with the "Stowaway" pistol grip that the ''[[Stargate]]'' pages also state that they have. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:25, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

:Doesn't look too different from a standard M4 carbine to me. The telescoping stock isn't much of an identifier as to the model of the weapon; the standard stock can be easily swapped out for third-party aftermarket stocks (in fact you'll note that there are images of the M4 with both four and six-position stocks on this site). As for the forward assist button, it can be swapped out just as easily as the stock. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:11, 11 July 2012 (CDT)
::The forward assist and stock are secondary, they just add to the likelihood of it not being a Colt gun. Another thing that is easily replaceable but just adds to the whole weirdness of this gun in that fact that it has an A1 rather than A2 flash hider. The main thing is the scope rail. It is higher than on a standard AR-15 pattern gun made by Colt, or the majority of other manufacturers. The easy place to see this is at the rear above the charging handle, where the receiver above the charging handle slot is about twice the thickness. I've just noticed as well that the brass deflector looks odd, the top edge of it slopes upwards and goes higher up the weapon. This is definitely a live fire gun as they are used throughout the series firing blanks, but it is definitely not a Colt M4. Was hoping someone would be able to recognise the profile of the upper receiver, as that is the unique part which makes this gun unidentifiable. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:03, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

::I am the one who wrote that comment about Olympic Arms flattop receivers on the ''[[Stargate: SG1]]'' page, and several other pages. If you want a better example of what the earliest OlyArms flattop rifles looked like, check out the pics of the K23B Stubby which is used by [[Gary Sinise]] in ''[[Reindeer Games]]''. My understanding (and I asked about this on the OA message board) is that OlyArms' first flattop receivers were a bit taller (by about .25") than the current mil-spec standard seen on the M4/M16A4, and had a rail that was copied from the Colt ACR (which looks very different from the Picatinny rail). This style receiver was only produced for a short time before Oly started making their flattop ARs with the same type of receiver that Colt had introduced on the M4.

::As for the M4 in ''[[Strike Back - Season 1|Strike Back]]'', I agree with you that the flattop receiver is clearly taller than that of a mil-spec M4, but unlike early OlyArms flattops, it appears to have the Picatinny rail. So unless Oly manufactured tall flattops that had Picatinny rails (and I have no idea if they did), that upper is probably from some other manufacturer. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:44, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

== M16 and SP1 sections ==

As it is impossible to tell an original Model 602 M16 from a Model R6000 Sporter without seeing a detailed view of the front receiver pin (the M16 has a flat push pin whereas the SP1 has a screw headed pin) should they have separate sections? Furthermore from what I can tell the vast majority of the weapons listed in the M16 section are SP1s, as are all the images in that section. I would sugest merging the SP1 section into the M16 section and making a note of the fact that the vast majority of "M16s" in film/TV are actually SP1s. Also, I think the M16/M203 and M4/M203 sections should be merged into the main weapon sections as firstly (in the case of M16s) it doesn't distinguish by variant, and secondly most of the time an M203 is attached to a weapon people just list it under the notes section rather than putting it in these sections. Thoughts anyone? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:43, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== 50-round mags ==

Every time a video game includes a M16 or M4 with 50-round magazines it is listed as an incorrect capacity, why? According to some research, the M16 rifle series use STANAG magazines, which include the 50-round capacity, so why would a 50-round M16 be unrealistic? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] 03:03, 8 August 2012 (CDT) ''(I previously forgot to sign my post, so here it is)''
:I've never heard of a 50-round STANAG magazine, I thought they only came in 20 and 30 rounds. And please sign your posts. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:14, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
Some companies do make quad stack 50 round magazine, Surefire for example. However, these magazine look different to a regular 30 rounder widening outside of the magazine well to double thickness. If the gun is modelled with a 30 round mag and has a capacity of 50 then it is incorrect, just as a gun modelled with a 20 round mag holding 30 rounds is incorrect. To the best of my knowledge no game has featured quad stack AR-15 magazines yet, so any game where the weapon holds 50 rounds is wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:31, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
::Edit: My mistake, Surefire mags only come in 60 or 100 rounds, not 50. Think there are still 50 round ones out there, Magpul have files a patent for a 50 round version of the PMAG. Come to think of it, I really don't know why surefire didn't make the mags 50 rounders, as then the length would be about the same as a 30 rounder making it less obtrusive and more compatible with existing vests and pouches, but whatever. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:13, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
:I can't find anything on Google about 50-round STANAG mags. Maybe the OP could enlighten us? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:49, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
::On the Wikipedia page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STANAG_Magazine STANAG magazine] it says that there are 40, 50 and 90-round magazines (in addition of the usual 20, 30 and 100), which drew my attention on the 50-round mag --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] 03:03, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
Wikipedia sucks as a source of information. STANAG Magazines are designed to fit into an M16 magazine well. STANAG magazines are supost to be 30 rounds. 5,10,20,40,50, 60,90,100 round magazines are not STANAG magazines although they will fit into a STANAG magazine well. There was a 50 round magazine made durring vietnam and it was proven unreliable and removed from service as fast as it was designed and built. Thus ever 50 round magazine in videogames is erronious. Standard magazine capacity for a M16 is a 30 round STANAG magazine.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 15:10, 14 August 2012 (CDT)
:So, are you saying that the original 20 round magazines that were called STANAG aren't STANAG? A STANAG magazine is any magazine designed to fit into the magwell of the M16 and other weapons that use the magazines. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 19:12, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

Talk:M16 rifle series

2012-09-03T00:12:05Z

Jeddostotle7: /* 50-round mags */

==Screen Used Rifles==
[[Image:M16A1M203ScarfaceCombo.jpg‎ |thumb|none|600px|World IMFDB Exclusive: Screen used Faux M203 Launcher with M16A1 with Quadrant and Front ladder sight - 5.56x45mm. This is verified screen used from the film ''[[Scarface]]''. Two 30 round magazines have been taped together with black gaffer's tape to emulate the way Tony Montana loaded his weapon in the film. What is interesting is that the tape in the movie does really appear to be motion picture gaffer's tape, which would only be common on ... a movie set.]]
[[Image:M4_SWAT-1-.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 with ACOG scope and Surefire M500AB weaponlight. This is one of the screen-used weapons seen in ''[[S.W.A.T. (film)|S.W.A.T.]]'' - 5.56x45mm.]]
[[Image:UVARCarbine.jpg|thumb|600px|none|CAR-15 like the one used in ''[[Uncommon Valor]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:BattleLA M16A4.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A4 (5.56x45mm) with ACOG scope, RIS foregrip, Magpul MBUS rear sight, and AN/PEQ-15 IR designator as seen in ''[[Battle: Los Angeles]]'']]
[[Image:Colt Law Enforcement Model 6920 Carbine..jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Law Enforcement Carbine with ACOG scope and PentagonLight MD3R weaponlight, screen-used weapon from ''[[I Am Legend]]'' - 5.56x45mm]]

==Additional Variants==
[[Image:CustomNorthHollywoodAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Custom AR-15/M16 Hybrid gun (5.56x45mm) made to resemble the firearm used by Emil Matasareanu in the 1997 North Hollywood Bank Of America Shootout, represented in the film ''[[44_Minutes:_The_North_Hollywood_Shootout|44 Minutes:The North Hollywood Shootout.]]'']]
[[Image:OlympicArmsAR15.jpg|thumb|none|600px|An Olympic Arms AR15 (note: Olympic arms did not renamed their rifles with the "K" designation until after the 1990s) with A2 Handguards and the Olympic Arms stowaway pistol grip - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M203xm177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177 - 5.56x45mm with M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:model 656.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M16A1 with 20-round magazine, fitted with scope - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M4 m203 old.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 727 - 5.56x45mm with [[M203 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[File:Colt Model 607.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 607 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Mockcommando.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:GUU-5P.jpg|thumb|none|600px|GUU-5/P - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M148.jpg|thumb|none|600px|XM177E2 - 5.56x45mm with a mounted [[XM148 grenade launcher]] - 40mm]]
[[Image:K3B.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Olympic Arms K3B carbine - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:C8A1ELCAN.JPG|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A1 carbine 5.56x45mm with ELCAN scope. Also known as the "C8FT" (Flat-Top)]]
[[Image:101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine-6.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C8A3 Carbine with EOTech red dot sight - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A4M203ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Artwork of an M16A4 rifle - 5.56x45mm with ACOG scope and M203 grenade launcher - 40mm]]
[[Image:M653M203.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Model 653 5.56x45mm with magazine removed and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]
[[Image:Cam15a4tacticalcarbine.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Classic Army M15A4 airsoft carbine rifle - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:RRA DEA.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Rock River Arms Tactical CAR-A4 Carbine 5.56mm with EOTech sight]]
[[File:Model 633 SMG DOE.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt 9mm SMG DOE (Model 633), shortened variant of the Model 635 produced for the Department Of Energy - 9x19mm]]
[[Image:Blackwater AR-15.jpg|500px|thumb|none|Blackwater AR-15 (a.k.a. "BW15") with Magpul PRS stock, Harris bipod and telescope - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:ColtCanada C8CQB.jpg|thumb|400px|none|Colt Canada CQB - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:DDM4v1.jpg|thumb|none|400px|Daniel Defense M4 v1 with DDM4 Rail 12.0 FSP, A1.5 rear sight, Magpul CTR stock, and KAC vertical foregrip - 5.56x45mm NATO]]
[[File:MGS3XM16E1Real.jpg|thumb|none|450px|Exact copy of the XM16E1 in Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. '''Note that this a Toy replica made by a user at the [http://bmedicom.runboard.com/t13028,offset=10 MDEI WORLD] forums and will be replaced as soon as a real XM16E1 in this configuration is found.]]

==Airsoft Replicas==
[[Image:CAXM177.jpg|thumb|none|600px|A Classic Army XM177 airsoft replica rifle - 5.56x45mm (of the type used by SF troops in some scenes of the movie ''[[Green Zone]]'').]]
[[Image:XM177_shorty.jpg|thumb|none|600px|CAR-15 SMG AIRSOFT RIFLE - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:Icsm4ris2006.jpg|thumb|none|600px|M4A1 AIRSOFT RIFLE with a RIS foregrip and AN/PEQ-2 IR designator - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt AR15 Match Target Competition HBAR II 6731.jpg|thumb|600px|none|Colt AR15 Match Target HBAR II (Model MT6731) - 5.56x45mm]]
This is the marushin cap gun?--[[User:Kin93|Kin93]] 07:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, you are right, it is, so this is one of the FIRST guns I need to photograph (a real one) and replace this Airsoft abomination. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually thats a ICS airsoft M4 with the grip and laser box....

An airsoft gun and a cap gun aren't the same thing. LOL [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:43, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== Interesting ==
...I seriously doubt anyone will ever see an underslung version of the M203 used in a film, all by itself, ...

but there have been stand alone M203 launchers (modified with a pistol grip and stock like the M79LF 37mm launchers) as well as the M203 being attached to guns other than the M16 (take Rambo III for example where they attached it to an AK). Having a section on the M16 w M203 on the M16 page makes sense since that is where people will look if they're curious about that particular combo appearing in a movie. But I like having a separate page for the M203 to address more detailed history of the launcher plus any applications where the launcher is used with other weapons. Just a thought...
::We do need a page where M203s are used as stand alone launchers, rare, but it has happened. But we should shift all M203s underslung to M16s to the M16 Page and have a note directing users to that page when looking for that combination on the M203 page. Just IMHO.... [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, that configuration. Also, there was a standalone M203 on Bones, and there might be others (sometime WAY in the future, when a director wants to use a "modern" version of an M79, like how James Cameron used the fictional roto-craft in place of the Huey).

== Do well really need to have an "A2" and "A3" category?==

[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] has already explained that just about all of the "M16A2s" used in movies are actually A2 uppers on A1 lowers, often with A1 flash hiders. By this definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", and might actually be considered M16A3s roughly. But since they're usually seen impersonating M16A2s, I say designate by receiver style only (both the A2 and A3 have what is usually called the "A2 receiver").

In other words, I think we should ditch the M16A3 category completely. It makes no sense to distinguish between A2s and A3s when basically all of the "Hollywood" A2s and A3s are the same type of gun. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 20:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

:I never got anyone's feedback on this, but...I decided to go ahead and ditch the M16A3 entry, for the reasons I explained above. It doesn't make sense to try and distinguish between "A2s" and "A3s" in movies when MoviePropMaster has explained that they're all basically the same thing - A2-style uppers on fully automatic A1 lowers. By that definition, none of them are true "M16A2s", but since they're obviously supposed to portray such rifles in movies, it makes more sense to call them A2s. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, because the M16A3 was made for Navy SEALs and SeeBees, no civilian hands hae touched them. -Winchester (1-26-09)
I believe the 1995 remake of Village of the Damned portrayed the National Guard using burst fire. --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

(the above was in reply to a comment that the author deleted as i posted.) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 03:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

::Also I think Colt sold A3s to foreign entities, National police of allied countries, Elite units, etc. Any country with which we are friendly and Colt has sold weapons in the past. I've heard that A3s were sold as samples to France, U.K. and Germany (but that was a casual comment that I heard years ago). There 'could' be A3s in the armories of foreign movie productions. That is a completely grey area with which I have no one to verify anything. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 05:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

:This is strange. I posted a comment here a couple hours ago, asking how many movies are there were burst fire is portrayed? I know Black Hawk Down has one instant. [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 05:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen some films that had three round burst fire. I will try to get the titles and list them [[Special:Contributions/205.172.16.102|205.172.16.102]] 01:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

There is a significant difference between a true A2 and A3 M16. Externally, they look identical, however the A3 is full auto and the A2 is 3 shot burst. Simply put: A1 and A3 are full auto, A2 and A4 are 3 shot burst. The external differences are what make it a little easier to identify. We all know what an A1, A2, and A4 M16 look like, but the A3 is just an A2 that is full auto. Hope this helps; Its my first time posting. --[[User:Ranger12|Ranger12]] 10:14, 29 October 2011 (CDT)

== The caption to the M16A1 w/ M16A2 handguards... ==
I was in the National Guard in the early '90's and that's exactly what we had. I was also issued an M16A1 with A2 handguards in basic training. It turns out that it's simpler and--from what I heard--cheaper to replace the 'A1 guards with 'A2 guards because the 'A2's are less complex and you only need to stock one type instead of 'lefts' and 'rights'. Also, the 'A1'a in the national guard were freshly rebuilt, tested, and had the serial numbers laser etched into the bolt carriers. They were issued with all 'A2 furniture.

:Yeah, I've seen plenty of A1s with A2 hand guards elsewhere. In fact, if you ever watch footage of the current offensive into Gaza, you can see both IDF personnel and Hamas militants using them. The Israelis received a lot of M16A1s and have updated many of them with the M16A2 hand guards. Many of these rifles were passed into Israeli's "allies" in Fatah, and then Hamas stole plenty of them during their war with Fatah (some were also probably stolen from the IDF themselves). -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 22:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

just for the record here is an M16A1 with A2 handguards in service
[[Image:RP Marines assault line DM-SD-06-10463.JPEG|thumb|none|600px|RP Marines armed with M16A1s with A2 handguards.]]
--[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

== Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle ==

Does anyone have an image of one?
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

:I put one on the ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]'' page that I took from another site. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:06, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I pasted it from that page but we should probably look into getting a noncopyrighted one.
-[[User:AdAstra2009]]

::Well, you can ask MoviePropMaster2008 if he has a Mark 12 upper in his company's inventory. I imagine he also knows armorers at Cinema Weaponry (the guys who supplied the weapons for ''[[Live Free or Die Hard]]''), so he might even be able to get us one of the same guns used in that movie. But he's very busy of course and has LOTS of other image requests to tend to, so it might be a while before he gets around to it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

== Rate of Fire on the M16A1 ==
Does anyone know the rate of fire on the M16A1?[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 22:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I assume it's about 800 rounds a minute [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

:That would be correct, it's around 750 to 800 RPM. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== What is this? ==
It's not really from a movie, but a music video, and I havn't been able to figure out what this AR is yet, there are two others in the video, one's an M16A1, the other an A2, but I just can't figure this one out.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle1.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle2.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle3.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle4.JPG
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:RA_Rifle5.JPG

Looks like an M733, what is this from? [[User:Excalibur01|Excalibur01]] 08:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:The gun in the first 'cap looks different from the CAR-15s in the other pictures. Maybe it's a fake XM177?-[[User:Oliveira|Oliveira]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::It's from the music video for Hero Of War by Rise Against, the main soldier uses it, his two buddies use an M16A1 and M16A2, I'm almost 100% sure there are only three rifles in the video. Yeah, I'm thinking M733 too... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]]

==XM607 Commando Carbine==
I do remember the weapon from ''[[Pink Cadillac]]'' an XM607, or an AR-15 modified to imitate one. The weapon may not have been officially adopted but kits were released to the public though:

* [http://totalsilenceinc.com/XM607_pages/questions.html 1]
* [http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html 2]
* [http://www.fototime.com/A2FFCE89093C8E7/standard.jpg 3]

[[User:Cutaway|Cutaway]] 18:54PM, 3/7/2009 (UTC)

:I changed the entry after I watched the trailer for the movie. The trailer is on YouTube, and the gun in question is visible at the 00:27-00:28 mark:

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LddykTA8nVg

:That is definitely an older-model LaFrance Specialties M16K. It doesn't have the triangular front sight post of the XM607. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 18:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

==The Photoshopped M16 images==

Can people '''please''' stop posting the images of M16 variants that were edited using MPM's photos? There's a reason I've removed them before. We don't need to have every variant on the page, and many of them are inaccurate, anyway. The only one we allow is the XM16E1, because we don't have a good photo of one of those yet, and even that may get replaced. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

*The Colt 607 image I posted wasn't one of MPM's [unless someone stole it and re-hosted it], I got it from google. Only put it here because the page for the The World Is Not Enough videogame didn't have a 607 image. [[User:Vangelis|Vangelis]] 05:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

==Why do we have Colt Model 727 by itself==
When the Model 727 is just the commercial Colt name for the M4 carbine? it doesn't make sense to have the exact GUN made by Colt with it's commercial name (for law enforcement sales or international sales) with a separate category, when it should just be merged in with the M4/M4A1 category. The M16 page is getting out of control. MPM2008

:I agree that the Model 727 should be merged with the M4 category, but it's not exactly a commercial name for an M4. The Model 777 is the commercial name for the very first M4 (the one that didn't have the detachable carry handle). The 727 and 777 are identical, but the 727 is safe-semi-auto and the 777 is safe-semi-burst. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]]

:::Good point. But in the overall view, I think all that info (a) should be in the M4 category, (b) should be a footnote, NOT a separate category and (c) people are endlessly creating separate categories for weapons that are essentially the same guns as other categories. Experienced IMFDB users/Mods already know that most of the M16 variants seen in films are build ups of other guns. We usually just get the accessories and barreled uppers and put them on our full auto or semi auto lowers. Why spend thousands to get new guns when we're sitting on dozens and dozens of other M16s? Also, in VideoGames and Anime, again, they don't have to specify the new or commercial model unless it's specifically stated or named explicitly. Even then it can be a footnote in the original category.

==Adding images==

I'm getting a little annoyed with people adding images we don't need on the page, including many that are crap and which aren't necessary. Not to mention that half of them aren't even using the "<nowiki>br clear=all</nowiki>" command to ensure that the images won't drift into the next gun entry. So, I'm putting a stop to this now. No more without talking about it here first. Next person who doesn't respect my wishes gets a 1-week time out. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 17:23, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

:They're still doing it. I have removed the custom A1 upper mounted on an SP1 lower with A2 handguards from this page several times. It is not a common real like frankengun (but it has happened). I originally built this and photographed it for the HEAT page until better screenshots proved that Wes Studi's AR15 was an A1 style lower, not an SP1. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 21:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, for some reason, these users seem to think that every single picture of a gun needs to be on it's page. It especially frustrates me when they're sticking all customized guns that only appear in one movie onto a page, they may look cool, but they're not even standard configurations! All they end up doing is turning the gun page into a cluttered, sloppy mess of pictures, I mean just look at the [[Remington 870]] and [[Mossberg 500]] pages.--[[User:Alienqueen11|Alienqueen11]] 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Would it be alright if I added the following image to the [[M16 rifle series#M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher|M4/M4A1 with M203 Grenade Launcher]] section?

[[Image:Sopmod m4 m203 06.jpg|thumb|none|350px|M4A1 5.56x45mm with M68 Aimpoint red dot scope, flip-up rear sight, and M203 grenade launcher 40mm]]

Figured that since the other sections on the page have pics of the 'basic' and 'tricked-out' versions, why not this one? [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any pictures of a heavily modified M4 style platform? ex- The Unit, BlackHawk Down, Tears of the Sun? [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

So why not update this page to include current issue M16A4 rifles?
(unless you don't know what they are....)

==A Warm Thank-You==
For years I have been trying to find out what the guns were Peter & Roger used in Dawn of the Dead. This site solved what the problem so many other "gun experts" on IMDb could not. Again, thank you.
:Thats what IMFDB is for =) --[[User:AdAstra2009|AdAstra2009]] 18:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

==Let's See If You Can Figure This Out==
I couldn't find a real picture so I put this together. Its an M4A1 with the old style stock, and a straight (no cuts) 16" barrel; or its a Sporter (or one of those older three number ones like that) with a removable carry handle; take your pick. I was just wondering what it actually is...

P.S. Every detail is intentional and exactly how its supposed to be even though its not a real picture, just so everyone knows that. ;)
[[Image:M4A1COD4.jpg]]

:It would be a hybrid commercial AR variant. It has an M16A1 style lower receiver, so it is NOT a Sporter I or II. Basically, it's an M4 Carbine with a flat top and detachable carry handle, with an old style buttstock and a civilian HBAR Carbine barrel outfitted with RIS forearms. Various manufacturers made similar guns to this design, like Bushmaster and a few others. Also many builders of AR15s made similar guns from parts kits from M&A, Patriot Arms, (the now defunct Nesard), Sun Valley, and others. With the advent of custom builds from aftermarket parts from dozens of manufacturers, the AR15 has become the ultimate "mutt". I can tell you this is NOT an issued military variant, so it would NOT have an "M" designation unless it was built from an M4 to begin with. Also nearly everyone uses the step down M4 style barrels for carbines, unless it's the ultra light. The HBAR Carbine style barrels are becoming rarer by the day since their heyday was the 1990s. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:30, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks a lot, very informative answer. This is the "M4 Carbine" in Call Of Duty 4, and I've been trying to figure out exactly what it really is for a while. I didnt say where it was from because I figured the answer I'd get would be something like "its a videogame, so its probably not a real model", but I knew that ;) I like the look and have been trying to make it as an airsoft project, this helps a lot... too bad airsoft HBAR barrels are very hard to come by. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

:::How did you make that? At first I thought it was Pimp My Gun, but PMG doesn't have an M16A1 pistol grip yet. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

::::No, you thought right my friend, it is Pimp My Gun, I just used MS Paint to remove the little finger nub and made the HBAR barrel by copying and pasting the largest part of the barrel over the rest of it. That's all the "photoshopping" that I did. [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 07:45, 13
February 2010 (UTC)
::If it's from CoD4, then blame lack of details on modelers that made that gun model. They simply saved some poligons for improved performance of the game. Same thing with lack of gas-block when front sight is removed. It supposed to be M4A1 and i'm 100% sure they had pictures of military issued M4A1's as a reference.
:::I'm sure they wanted it to be an M4A1, but I've seen a lot of movies where HK94s were converted to be MP5s, or 92FSs were converted to be 93Rs and last I checked on this site we identify guns on what they are, not what they're supposed to be... [[User:Alex T Snow|Alex T Snow]] 00:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== M16A1 series' portray ==

In the present, does anyone think that like the Ak47 and its variants, the M16A1 series is sometimes stereotypically portrayed as a bad guy's gun?
I've seen the IRA, FARC guerillas, Mexican drug lords and some gangbangers use them.
Overall is this true?
:In the real world, the USSR dumped millions of AKs into the hands of satellite states and insurgents around the world. In the Vietnam and immediate post Vietnam years the U.S. dumped millions of M16A1s to our allies. With the fall of Vietnam, all of the South Vietnamese M16A1s ended up in the hands of communist guerillas (as well as the AK). The AK and the M16 were the most prolifically distributed weapons of the last 50 years. There is no conspiracy to make them 'look bad'. They're in the hands of everyone so it is invevitable.
:Even Iran uses a variant of the M16A1, a copy of the Norinco CQ called the ''S-5.56'', as their standard rifle. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

== AR Series firing 5.7 Ammo??? ==

I was in a gun shop in Michigan today and saw a weapon with an AR-15 type body but with the mag of a P-90 running along the rail. I asked the guy at the shop and he did confirm the weapon did fire the 5.7 round. Anyone have any idea who makes the weapon and what it may be called? Incidentally the store was The Firing Line in Westland Michigan. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 03:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::They sell those uppers here in California all the time. My local gun store has 5.7mm firing AR15 uppers that take the P90 magazine. But I never bothered to check who made it, that's what GOOGLE is for. I just never had an interest [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 07:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:I have seen examples of this conversion as well. It is actually a specially-made upper receiver that can be mounted onto pretty much any AR-15 style lower receiver. The magazine mounts along the top of the weapon as with the P90, and the original magazine well in the lower receiver becomes the ejection port with the spent brass falling down through there instead of being spit out to the side. As for the manufacturer, I can't quite recall who makes it, but it is definitely quite an interesting piece of hardware. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 07:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as my memory goes, is called the AR-57 and is manufactured by 57Center, or something like that --[[User:Yocapo32|Yocapo32]] 15:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

::I remember when Impact Guns got those in. You can buy them here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html

::The manufacturer's web site, as Yocapo32 pointed out, is 57 Center. Their web site is here: http://www.57center.com/

::What's interesting is that the AR magazine well is where the brass gets ejected. The only problem I can see with having a P90 magazine mounted on top is that it leaves limited rail space on top for mounting accessories. You could have a scope or iron sights, and not much else. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 15:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys, again, I know this was not germane to the topic, it was just a little odd to see something like that as I had never heard of it before. --[[User:Charon68|Charon68]] 16:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stolen M4A1s==

In real life is there ever any incidents where police have seized M4A1 carbines from criminials or terrorists during raids?

:Do you mean mil-spec M4s, as opposed to semi-auto AR-15 carbines that are patterned after the M4? I would doubt it. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

::Never, or else it has never been reported anywhere, ever. And I am talking about real select fire 14.5" barreled M4/M4A1 carbines. However, California has had a rash of MP5s and MP5Ks stolen out of police cars, which were left unlocked when the cops were in a strip club. Seriously. they have not shown up since....[[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 06:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

:::They're probably somewhere in Mexico right now, if you catch my drift. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:39, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

==Suitable combat weapon==

Which weapon is considered better for infantry? An M16A1/M203 combo or an OICW?
:M16A1/M203. The XM29 weighs damn near 20 lbs., compared to 8 or 9 lbs. for the M16 when fitted with a 203. Fire control system or not, the last thing I'd want to be stuck with on a 60 mile march is an F-ing 20 lbs. rifle. And sign your posts by typing four '''~''' after them. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 23:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16/M203 combo is definitely superior; it has been proven in real-world combat situations over the last 30-plus years, whereas the only live-fire situation the XM29 has seen at the most is at the Aberdeen testing ranges. The closest replacement the M16/M203 will likely see anytime soon is an [[FN SCAR]]/[[Heckler & Koch M320|M320]], and even then the SCAR is only in limited use with the 75th Ranger Regiment at present. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 05:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The real question is whether or not the XM8 Carbine is better than the M4A1/derivatives (H&K 416, REC7, etc). And we probably won't ever know.

Also, the OICW was more of a man-portable version of a Doom gun than anything that you would actually bother carrying on duty. 20mm airburst auto-loader, saboted sub-5.56mm rounds? What could you use that for other than trying to clear a drug cartel's fortified mansion by yourself?

[[Special:Contributions/72.189.150.170|72.189.150.170]]

:One of the many things that led to the death of the XM29 was its sheer size. The Army wanted it scaled down to the size of an M4 [http://www.ghostrecon.net/images_arms/xm29_1.jpg] and 14 lbs max (which an M4 with all its mods gets pretty close to), but with today's technology, it just wasn't possible. Maybe in 20 years or so it will be, but the XM29 is presently dead for the foreseeable future. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 17:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Installation of a front Flip up/down Iron sights. ==

I was watching The Losers, and while I agree that those 4 characters all had M4A1s, they seemed to switch between fixed front sight and flip up/down iron sights. I was wondering how hard it would be to take an M4A1, remove the front factory sight and replace it with a flip up/down sight. I know it's pretty easy for the rear sight, but I wasn't sure about the front sight. (OK, I also want to ask this question because I, like many people, have played Modern Warfare 2 and seen the M4 with a flip up/down front sight.) --[[User:Gunkatas|Gunkatas]] 03:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:Not really that difficult. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 04:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I believe the process would involve removing the muzzle brake and the existing front sight/gas block assembly and replacing it with a gas block that has either a rail to mount your choice of front sight, or a folding front sight, then reinstalling the muzzle brake. You can find instructional videos for this process at various gunsmithing websites. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 14:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== Forward Assist ==
Does anyone know when reloading if it is a good idea to hit the forward assist after hitting the bolt release or its ok just to start firing after hitting the bolt release?

:The idea behind hitting the forward assist after reloading is to ensure the bolt is fully seated and that the weapon is ready to fire. It's generally not really nessicary at the range, but when in a combat situation where you might have dirt or whatnot fouling the chamber, it's a good idea to do that to ensure that the weapon will fire when you need it to.[[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:The M16 series are the ONLY assault rifles (except the [http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83:g41-series&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&Itemid=5/ HK G41], which is made to be like the M16 and is no longer produced) in the world to have a forward assist. Why don't other assault rifles have a forward assist? (ie. the AK-74, G36 etc.) Because other assault rifles are more reliable and don't need it. :)
::Uh more associated with the design of the Bolt than being more reliable. The AK series have a bolt handle attached DIRECTLY to the bolt carrier as do many other designs. If there is debris or fouling in the chamber which keeps a round from seating properly you can just jam the handle forward (I've done this in the field when my AK / Garand / Galil / M 14 / etc jammed) I once had a tiny piece of bark (I was firing under trees) which fell from above and fell into the ejection port and made the round 'stick' really badly in the chamber so that it would not seat properly. The M16 design has no way other than the forward assist to nudge the bolt & carrier forward enough to fire and kick that crap free of the action. But I wouldn't bash the M16 as an "unreliable" rifle. I'd sure take it into battle right now. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 20:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Alright, I understand. thanks for the extra info. I'm not saying the M16/M4 is a complete piece of crap, but it's definitely not the BEST ASSAULT RIFLE IN THE WORLD! like we Americans like to state all the time (*rolls eyes*). You and me both know the M16/M4 is no where as reliable as the G36 or the AK series. But at least it's better than the L85 series, now that's a piece crap rifle. :D *Edit: Well at least the L85A1, the L85A2 is OK. kinda like the M16/M16A1s sucks but the M16A2/A4s are good.

::::I have to completely disagree with what you say, i don't wish to come off as passive aggresive but you sound like a mall ninja that learned their weapons knowledge from seeing them perform in videogames or hearing public opinions on weapons from the news or other sources. The M16 family of rifles are both fine and fairly reliable weapons, while much of that view has been skewed by the fact they were portrayed as unreliable during conflicts such as Vietnam, is incorrect to a degree. The M16 is a reliable and capable weapon when cleaned and properly maintained, it simply lacks the ability to stay so when not properly serviced, as some other rifles such as the AKM can function fine without cleaning, the M16 can not. As for your comment on the L85 series, yes they were somewhat poor and unreliable weapons at first, coupled with poor grips and clumsy to handle for certain users, however the newer models have made large improvements and are very capable firearms. As i feel it needs to be said (or typed) a common mistake people make is assuming that militaries have access and funding to field their troops with the best weapons available, which is not always the case as most countries don't have the money to field an Army with rifles that can cost up to $5000-10000 per unit. Which is where the workhorses like M16's come in, you go for the "good" rifle not the "great" one. Also, although off-topic it somewhat pertains to the M16, most mall ninja's assume the AK-family is better because it is more reliable and fires a heavier cartridge, I've always asked "would you want a round that's going to pierce right through an enemy and leave an easy to treat wound, or have a round that hits an enemy and fragments inside them causing an ungodly bloody mess?" Hopefully esteemed imfdb members such as MPM2008 will agree with and share my viewpoint concerning this subject, as well as not condemn me for my long comment. [[User:Doc345|Doc345]] 13:24, 06 March 2011 (UTC)

::::The issues of jamming during the Vietnam War had more to do with ammunition and the lack of a chrome-lined chamber and barrel than the rifle's so-called "dirty" gas system. In 1964 the Army switched from stick powder to ball powder, which increased the rate of fire to over 1,000 RPM and left a lot of dirty residue in the weapon. This was only exacerbated by the lack of cleaning kits and training on how to maintain the weapon. They fixed the issue by fitting the rifle with a buffer system (which slowed the ROF down) and chrome-plated chamber. Training programs in weapon maintenance were instituted and an instruction book on how to maintain the rifle was circulated among troops. After further modifications resulted in the M16A1, many of the reliability issues disappeared (although even today, the weapon has yet to shed its bad reputation). The M16A2, A3, A4, and M4 carbine of today are an entirely different breed of warrior than the prototypes that were issued back in the 60s. While it may admittedly be a bit finicky, the M16 today is a good weapon. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:29, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

:::::Yeah but it's still a very fussy weapon, it's not very durable, and it has much more malfunctions/jams then say the H&K G36, but none the less it's still a excellent weapons platform, mostly. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 14:28, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

::::: I was always taught that the forward assist, while useful in combat, in situations where dirt or grime can jam a weapon, overall, if you DO need to use it, its a good indication of a malfunction and should be addressed, especially if its at a range. Theres a video somewhere on youtube, of a guy shooting some sort of AR, and repeatedly hits the forward assist, without clearing or checking the bore, until the entire gun explodes, probably from a round hitting one stuck in the bore. -MissySummers- 18:47, 8 January 2012 (CST)

:::::::Are you talking about the video where the magazine blows apart on one guy's AR-15 when he pulls the trigger? If so, I've seen it and while I don't recall exactly what the description said the cause was, I'm pretty sure it was an issue with the ammunition (probably a hot cartridge) rather than the oh-so-pined-upon gas system. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 03:48, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::::::One element to remember when criticising the AR-15's reliability is that when it was first issued in the field, it was touted to not need any maintenance nor be cleaned. Immediately, this was realised to be a mistake, but that initial belief that it never needed cleaning and inevitable memory of fouling sticks around. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 14:20, 14 August 2012 (CDT)

== The comment about the SPR Mk 12 shooting full auto... ==

The design--at least the original ones--used a match grade trigger group that actually fired full auto.

If my Web Fu is correct, NSN 1005-01-562-0901 from Knight's Armament.

The original, intended purpose was to allow the uppers to be swapped out for a short barreled model initially so a marksman could use a short range weapon on the way in and out and the more accurate upper at the objective.

Sources: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=003aa7475e95c9b56d5814227cc5d4ec&tab=core&_cview=0

::https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fbd46923c9e6d18cd916b8a6e7d3cfdf&tab=core&_cview=0

States the Special Purpose Receiver (Early designs) specifies:

"(C) OTHER PERFORMANCE GOALS: (1) Increased reliability, durability, corrosion resistance, ease of cleaning, lubricity/reduced friction; fully functional for a minimum of 15,000 rounds (Threshold)/30,000 rounds (Objective), performing up to the standards and firing rates to be published in the Solicitation, functional reliability exceeding that of the standard M4A1 carbine at high and low temperature extremes as well as other hostile (sand/dust/dirt/mud/surf) environmental conditions (2) Improved safety- delay cook-off, fail-safe features, fires/functions safely and without delay of draining in the Over-The-Beach (surf zone, weapon flooded with water) environment. (3) User Acceptance: operational suitability, increased live-fire hit scores, decreased live-fire engagement times, speed/accuracy of engagement, '''controllability in semi-automatic and full automatic fire''', improved handling qualities, light weight, snag free in movement through vegetation and battlefield obstacles." (Accent added)"

== Standard Issue M4 vs. M4A1 ==

Does the Army issue regular infantry (i.e. 4th Inf. Div.) the three-round burst M4 or the M4A1? I always thought it was the M4A1 (and please forgive me if I got to the party late), but from what I've read, it seems like they issue the regulars the Model 920, leaving the 921 for Special Forces and the like. -

i think it all depends on the on-base armory. for example some armory's might still have some M4s. but i think the regular infantry does use the M4A1. however. Special forces dont use the M4A1 or the M4. they use the hK416/417. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 17:11, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't imply Spec-Ops units use ''only'' the new HK rifles - As you've said, it all depends on what's around, and to a degree what the soldiers prefer (in the case of Special units). Though the aforementioned HK rifles are in inventory, that doesn't automatically cancel the M4s out - some personnel might still use 'em. Plus there are other weapons around, namely the FN SCAR series. Though I would agree use of the M4 with Special Forces probably isn't as common these days. As for a regular-issue weapon, I agree that the M4 and M4A1 are both in use nowadays, with the A1 perhaps being more prominent. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 19:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, Stan, my understanding is that it's the opposite. The M4 is the most common version, not the M4A1. U.S. military doctrine still discourages full-auto for infantry rifles, so it seems unlikely to me that the M4A1 is going to be more common. As for the SCAR, SOCOM just decided this past June that they weren't going to order any more SCAR-Ls for the foreseeable future, which means that even amongst most SF units, the M4 will remain their standard weapon. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 01:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:- Well, I wasn't too sure, but I guess that does make sense to stick with the burst-fire M4. Good point. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The only SF unit that uses the M4 (920) that I can think of is the Asymmetric Warfare Group, but that's only 'cause they had to hand in their HK416s. According to a book I've got, that decision went over like a lead balloon with the AWG. -

thank god. im not a huge fan of the SCAR-L i find it pointless. if you want to go with a new alternative to the M4/M16. why the hell would you take an unfamiliar weapon. alas the hK416. same rate of fire. same Picatanny rail, same attachments, same stock, same barrel, same trigger group, and extremely similiar internals. and Stan, i do agree. if i made it sounds like all SF use the hK416, i didnt mean to. i/we really DONT no what they all use. they pick their own. they could carry an AK-47 or a CAR-15 if they wanted to. we cant make generalizations about units that get custom made equipment. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

- No prob, dude - I'm just glad you got what I was gettin' at. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 20:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

i would be shocked if they couldnt pick their weapons. their the best soldiers on the planet. it just doesnt make sense not to be able to. it would be like giving a star baseball player a 10 dollar glove. itll do but why wouldnt they get the best thats out there. [[User:Dirtdiver6421|Dirtdiver6421]] 01:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Reg army units use the burst M4, not the full auto A1. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

A couple of months ago when I was at a military base there were Marines conducting a weapons demo with the M4 carbine. It was the 3-round burst rifle, but a question came up about the M4A1. One Marine said that they got rid of all M4A1s and only have M4s. I personally don't see the need for a full-auto rifle and 3-round burst is fine because it forces the user to slow down and most of the time the user uses semi-only, combat or not, but that is my opinion. The M4A1 is still probabley used by the US Military, but I'm not sure, I haven't seen one in a long time.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Accurized Rifle ==

After seeing several pages of real firearms appearing in only one film or game, I was wondering if I should expand this page with a new section for the [http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp Colt Accurized Rifle], which to my knowledge has only ever appeared in [[S.W.A.T. 4]]. Before I do that, I need to confirm two things:

*Is the Colt Accurized Rifle indeed another variant on the M16 line of rifles, or a separate take on the AR-15 design altogether? I suppose there's a reason why we don't include the [[Z-M LR 300]] in the M16 page because it's the latter--I need to know if the Colt Accurized Rifle falls in that category.
*Including it on this page would make it the first Designated Marksman Rifle variant here. So far I only see assault rifles or carbines here. Would including a DMR in this page be a problem or not?

If there are no real problems, I'll make a new section for it, but I have no idea where I'll get a non-copyright infringment image of one. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 01:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

:It'd be the '''second''' DMR on the page. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 05:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but can someone confirm that the Colt Accurized Rifle is indeed descended from the M16 line of assault rifles and not a separate take on the AR-15 design like the aforementioned LR-300 is? I still have no idea where I can get a photo of this DMR that respects copyright. All I have are game screenshots. Some help here, please? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 22:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Removeable Carry Handle for Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Does such a Gun exist?

:Not as a production gun (Colt's website makes no mention of one, anyway), but the modular nature of the AR system makes such a configuration entirely possible. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 14:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==Why do we have a Colt AR-15 SP1 category that is separate from the M16/SP1 category?==
The guns look the same, sure the SP1 had a design change in 1978 (three prong flash hider was changed to birdcage, rear sling swivel was changed to A1 style and the color went from greenish grey to straight grey) but unless we see the stamp on the side that says "Property of U.S. Government" we can't tell if it's a real M16 (which WERE sold via Title II dealers to armories) and a Colt AR15 SP1 which was converted to full auto (which was done A LOT prior to 1986). [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 19:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

== About M4 Commando and M16A4 Full Auto ==

Full Auto M16A4 (Model 905) is [http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp Model 901]

[http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com_2.asp Model 933] ''is'' M4 Commando (Full Auto)

[http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp Manufacturer's site] says it all.

== Colt Model 653 barrel length ==

Am trying to pin down what a gun is for a page I'm working on. It has a forward assist but no deflector, A1 rear sight, M4 length tubular handguard, 16" barrel with birdcage flash hider and a solid stock. Basically it matches the gun in the picture for the Model 653 on the main page, apart from having a solid stock but that is easily changeable. However, every source I can find about the 653 says that it has a 14" barrel. Was the gun made in different barrel lengths but kept the same designation, and if not, anyone know what the gun is that is pictured as a 653? Also, while I'm on the topic of obscure colt carbines, does anyone know of a model that will match a 725 (original C8 without the flat-top) but has an A2 rear sight? Thanks, --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:16, 16 April 2011 (CDT)

== Can anyone figure out what this is? ==

I found this hidden in my computer, I think it's a Colt Canada C7A1 as a base, I can tell it's C7 because of the Canadian leaf on the the lower receiver, it would be an A1 because of the removable carrying-handle. What the heck is that hand-guard? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:02, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:Colt Canada C7A1 SPW.jpg|thumb|none|600px|Colt Canada C7A1 SPW?]]

:Colt Model 750/Diemaco C7 Light Support Weapon - A modified C7 with an enlarged gas tube (hence the square handguard) and a heavy barrel for sustained fire in the squad automatic weapon role. The C7 LSW is not used by the Canadian Forces but has seen service with the Dutch and Danish militaries. --[[User:Markit|Markit]] 01:34, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

::Ha! I thought so, thanks. :) Should I remove this section or keep it. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:53, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

:That's not Colt LSW, that's [http://www.colt.com/mil/CAR.asp Colt Automatic Rifle]. Follow the link and you will see that the image is the larger version of the official one. Meanwhile, [http://www.coltcanada.com/lsw-page.htm Colt LSW] has optional folding carry handle. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 09:09, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

::Thanks guys. :) - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 12:02, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

:Just to clarify, the Colt automatic rifle, LSW and LMG are all the same weapon. The original version that looks like the one above was the Colt Model 750, which featured a fixed A2 carry handle and barrel mounted bi-pod, and the newer version above is the current production Model 950, with the relocated bi-pod and A4 rear sights. As you said, the folding carry handle is removeable, and the picture on the Colt website is just one without it fitted (note the longer centre vent on the top of the handguard is the mounting point for the handle). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 02:48, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

::The original version was based on M16A1:

::[[File:M16A1 CAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

::The one you described was based on M16A2:

::[[File:M16A2 CAR.jpg|thumb|none|600px|]]

Guys, remember back in the 1980s when Colt was trying to vie for the SAW role? Sure the FN Minimi was never knocked off its perch, but Colt came out with a Colt light Machine gun that looked a lot like this. They were selling the barreled uppers on the market for a while in the early 1990s (I know a few friends who have them, but I never got one). This looks like that reincarnated!!! LOL![[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:24, 29 April 2011 (CDT)

:Well, that's all written on [http://world.guns.ru/machine/usa/m16-lsw-lmg-e.html Modern Firearms] :P

::Ah yes, you only read about it monkeyboy ;) I was handling and firing that sucker! LOL [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:11, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

:Oh, and I've found articles of why AR is more advantageous than SAW to US Marine Corps:

:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-employment-concepts M249 Employment Concepts]
:[http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/m249-light-machinegun-automatic-rifle-role The M249 Light Machinegun In The Automatic Rifle Role]

:Interesting reading, methinks :) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:13, 30 April 2011 (CDT)

::Yeah it was. :) You know, I kinda knew LMGs were dying out. :/ - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 01:07, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

::: Not overall, it's just the role they are being used in (automatic rifleman). SAW is still very good in defensive role and laying fire on attacking forces ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 11:33, 1 May 2011 (CDT)

== Heat Dissipation Performance of Carbine Barrel Types? ==

I was wondering, does anyone know what kind of effects the 'cuts' (originally meant for the mounting of the M203 grenade launcher) in the barrel of the M4 and similiarly-styled M16 & AR-15 series carbines has on the heat dissipation performance of the barrel? Do the cuts help the weapon release heat from prolonged firing better than a barrel that has a uniform thickness, or does it hamper that? Any input anyone can provide on this would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 17:46, 8 May 2011 (CDT)
:The step down for the grenade launcher is actually pretty negligible in terms of cooling (although it does create a point of weakness to bending), as what you can't see is the fact that as soon as the barrel goes under the handguard it is reduced down to the same narrow diameter as in the cut out, which creates a much bigger effect on cooling. The narrower profile sections have the effect of cooling down the barrel quicker, but they also conversely mean that the barrel heats up quicker, and the heat has a larger effect on the accuracy of the gun. The main advantage however is that it reduces the weight quite a bit. The original reason that the M4 barrel reduces in size behind the handguard is based on the M16A2, which does exactly the same thing where its heavy barrel is actually only thicker past the front sight. This was due to a cock up in the design, where they designed the gun with a full thickness straight barrel, and found that they could then no longer clamp the M203 to the barrel, so the barrels were simply turned down from behind the front sight post. The front of the barrel was left thick due to the fact that the thinner barrels on the M16A1 were being bent at the front from being used as pry-bars to get the loading bands off of shipping pallets. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:53, 6 June 2011 (CDT)

:There is a heavier "SOCOM-profile" barrel that maintains the same diameter beneath the handguards as the standard M4-profile barrel does around the M203 cut and it can mount the M203 just fine.[http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BCM-URG-M4-14SOCOM-2.jpg] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:40, 19 June 2011 (CDT)

== can you tell me what model of m16/car 15 this is ==

sorry i do not have a pic but i can tell you what is like. me and my dad were talikng about some of the guns he used in the army and he was telling me about this one he said was like an carbine version of the m16a2 and it was like the m4 but had a fixed carring handle and it was used befor the m4 it had safe semi and burst and he said it just had ar15 on the side.-Steviebleckley

:Sounds like the first batch of M4s that were delivered. This is the Colt Model 777, which is basically an M4 with a fixed carry handle, and 3-round burst as opposed to full auto. It is the brother of and visually identical to the 727 mentioned on the main page, where the 727 as full auto as opposed to the burst. If it didn't have the M4 profile barrel though, god knows. Probably a model 654 on an M16 lower receiver or something. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:02, 13 June 2011 (CDT)

yes it had the same profile as the m4. i gess it was the 777.I will show him the pic of the the 727 since there the same well the 727 is full auto thanks for the info - Steviebleckley

== Question about the buffer tube ==

I'm not one hundred percent sure what it does, and (like the forward assist) that almost no other guns have it. If someone could just clarify, what does it do, why does this rifle series have it, and why don't others/what replaces the buffer tube in other rifles? Thank you in advance. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 07:27, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
:Basically, it was installed in order to slow down the rate of fire. The very first M16s ended up using a different ammunition powder than they were designed for, which caused a higher rate of fire than desired (about 800 to 1000 rpm I think), leading to excessive fouling in the chamber, and hence lots of stopages. From the M16E1 onwards a buffer tube was added to slow the rate of fire to about 600-700 rpm, and a chrome lined chamber and barrel was added as well. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:47, 12 July 2011 (CDT)
I'm not sure if this is practical in any way, or even possible, but is their a way to increase the rate of fire on an M16 without the problems of the carbon build-up in the chamber?--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 23:29, 21 July 2011 (CDT)
:Why would you want to increase the rate of fire? - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 00:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)
No reason, just wondering if it's even possible with a full-auto M16.--[[User:MarineCorps1|MarineCorps1]] 08:09, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:Probably, I see no reason why you couldn't. - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 13:40, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm assuming the reason that the high rate of fire caused fouling was that the rate of fire was so quick that the bolt was unlocking and opening before all the powder was fully burnt in the chamber, leaving residue. I'd imagine that you could increase the rate of fire by removing the buffer, and just make sure that whatever powder you were using was fully burnt in the time it takes the bolt to open. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:29, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

::That would make sense, since I heard the nightmare version of that was when the gas pressure was still holding the spent case in place while the extractor was trying to eject it, which tended to result in Horrible Things happening to the case while it was still inside the rifle. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

This might be a silly question, but why is it that the AR-15 design required the buffer tube, and other rifles do not? Is it just located differently, and if so why? It just strikes me that the lack of a folding stock option is a poor design, especially when compared to most assault rifles designed today, SCAR, ACR, etc. --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:57, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:I'm guessing here, but from what I've read it's that the rifle had already been designed, so they had to work inside the box, as it were. The only options were either to make the components of the action a lot heavier so their momentum prevented the weapon cycling too fast (which would rather defy the point of using a lightweight aluminium receiver and suchlike) or add something on to slow it down, which is what they did. Rifles designed since have been designed from the ground up to avoid this kind of problem, so don't need to have a tube attached to a hole in the back of the receiver to fix them. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 21:08, 27 July 2011 (CDT)

:The buffer tube does two things: 1) contains the buffer and spring and 2) allows the bolt carrier to recoil part of the way into it. The combination means that the AR15-series rifles are functionally a long-recoil design where the bolt does not slam into anything rigid during recoil and stops based on the pressure of the buffer spring. This--in turn--enhances the straight-line recoil and therefore controllability during automatic fire or rapid semi-automatic fire. It also allows the AR15 design to use the rear of the bolt carrier to actuate the automatic sear meaning the probability in this design that you can set a round off with the bolt unlocked during automatic fire is nil. (Look up some of the problems with the "Lightning Link" to get a better idea of why this works the way it does.)

:Other designs often do incorporate additional recoil buffers in the stock, the FN FAL's without folding stocks do this and the plastic-stocked SAW's, but the AR15 design simply trades the ability to fold a stock for enhanced recoil handling... The idea behind the design was to make a weapon where the entire recoil force is in a direct line between your shoulder and the end of the barrel with as little jarring as possible. This is also one reason for the use of a direct gas impingement system and one reason why gas-piston AR's tend to eat the front of the buffer tube and buffer tube area of the lower receiver due to bolt carrier "tilt". The "lateral" forces of the piston tapping the top of the bolt carrier misaligns the bolt carrier off its straight line path and pushes that chunk of steel into the aluminum.

:Oh, and the forward assist is to compensate for not having a rigidly connected bolt handle. (Like someone already mentioned). The reason why is the design is meant to be operated in a manner where you ONLY use the charging handle for initial loading and then unloading at the end (administratively). Every other time, you actuate the bolt using the bolt release on the left side of the weapon... --[[User:Deathbunny|Deathbunny]] 01:28, 11 September 2011 (CDT)

== Noob Question ==

Ok I have a really dumb question, what is the difference between the Colt M4A1 and the Colt M4A1 Carbine? Or are they the same exact thing? The only reason I asked is when I was looking at the page, the M4A1 and the M4 Carbine look exactly the same, so how can you tell one from the other? - [[User:1morey]] July 22, 2011 11:21 AM (EST)

: The M4A1 and M4A1 'Carbine' are the same thing, the 'carbine' is just optionally showing the proper firearm type. As for the M4 and M4A1, well it ''does'' say the difference in the section but to answer - the M4 has Safe-Semi-Burst fire selection ala the M16A2/M16A4, the M4A1 has full-automatic instead of burst, ala the earlier M16s/M16A1/M16A3. Otherwise they're pretty much identical appearance wise (The M4A1 also has a heavier barrel inside the handguard, which of course you can't tell from the outside). It also notes some commercial AR-15 carbines are given an 'M4' moniker, but aren't the same as actual military M4s. [[User:StanTheMan|StanTheMan]] 12:17, 22 July 2011 (CDT)

== Colt or not? ==

If a M4 or M16 variant is listed on a page, should it by prefixed by Colt? I've noticed some people doing this but isn't it incorrect as the term M16 is the army designation as opposed to the Colt name (for example the Colt Model 603 for the M16A1). Either way, I would imagine that quite a few M16s or M4s in movies are manufactured by companies other than Colt, and even the US military rifles are not necessarily made by Colt these days. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:43, 3 September 2011 (CDT)

:I am curious... if the military M4 and M16 are not made by Colt these days then by whom? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:58, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::There was a stretch in the 1990s when Colt lost the military contract and all the M16s were built by Fabrique Nationale (FN). Though many companies build AR15 platforms, only the company who has the contract with the Dept. of Defense can call the M16 theirs. If there ARE any other manufacturers being represented on the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq, someone needs to find out. I certainly don't have any contacts who would know information which is THAT current. :( [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 15:48, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

:::FN have stated that “the vast majority of M16A2, A3 and A4 contracts as well as spare parts contracts for these systems since 1989”, and they had a $7 million contract to make M16A4s between 2005 and 2008. Sabre defence also won a contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles in July 2008 for the US navy/Marine corps respectively. Having said that FN also stated: ”...never was FN Manufacturing LLC, or any other small arms manufacturer, awarded M4 contracts. The M4 cannot be competed and always has been awarded sole source to Colt because of licensing rights restricting full and open competition until 2009” although it has stated its intention to bid for M4 contracts past this point. The US government took ownership of the M4 design on the 1st July 2009, so the M4 can now be manufactured for the government by other companies, but I don't know if this has actually been done yet. Regardless, M4 and M16 are government designations, so surely calling a gun a "Colt M4" is incorrect? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:09, 6 September 2011 (CDT)

::::Just checked the United States Army [http://www.army.mil/features/ official website]. It lists [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m4.html M4 Carbine] as being manufactured by Colt and [http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/individual/m16.html M16 Rifle] by Colt and Fabrique Nationale.
::::Oh, and take a note of M16: ''"The '''M-16A3''' is identical to the M-16A2 but has a removable carrying handle that is mounted on a Picatinny Rail (for better mounting of optics) and is without burst control. The '''M-16A4''' is identical to the M-16A2 except for the removable carrying handle and Picatinny Rail."''
::::United States Marine Corps websites: [http://www.marines.mil/] [http://www.marines.com/] don't mention the current manufacturer for [http://www.marines.com/main/index/winning_battles/gear/weapons_and_equipment/m16 M16 Rifle]. So I am not sure about them. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::Just to throw a bit of confusion in here, there are actually a number of different rifles designated as the M16A3 by the US military. The first is the Colt Model 646, also known as the M16A2E3, which was introduced in small numbers at the same time as the M16A2 and is an A2 with an A1 lower. Then you have the flat-top Colt Model 901 which was introduced at the same time as the M16A4 (in 1994 I think) and I'm assuming this is the version that the above page refers to. You also have the Colt Models 941 and 942 which are the HBAR and HBAR LMG models respectively, but I don't know if they are used. Not that any of this really matters as we identify all these guns as A2/A4 anyway. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 03:24, 7 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Well, that's because armorers don't have access to military M16A3s, so they just slap A2/A4 uppers to A1 lowers (correct?) because what Hollywood film director would want fixed burst firing gun (ignoring the fact that that's what soldiers and marines use) ? Or modify civilian semi-automatic replicas to fully automatic fire. In which case the weapon is to be identified as such. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:54, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::Didn't mean to imply we are doing anything wrong, just that the definition of the A3 models isn't that important as they don't appear. Having said that, the original M16A3/M16A2E3 was just an A2 upper on an A1 lower, so this is actually what a number of movie guns are, but I understand that they are going for a standard A2. Regardless, back to my original question, do we call them Colt or not? My opinion is no obviously, as it seems that some if not the majority of M16s are manufactured by other companies, and there is the future possibility of this with M4, and regardless it is a military designation of a rifle that goes by another Colt name. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:31, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

:::::::My opinion: M4 & M4A1 should remain as Colt. And so should older M16s. Modern M16s (M16A3 & M16A4), since they have ''at least'' 3 official manufacturers (Colt, Fabrique Nationale and Sabre Defence), should go without Colt. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:37, 7 September 2011 (CDT)

== How to NOT shoot an M16 rifle! ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI] - Seriously, this is either really funny, or just painful to watch... you decide. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:19, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

:Wow, that was bad. Glad that guy's alright! - [[User:Mr. Wolf|Mr. Wolf]] 20:46, 25 September 2011 (CDT)

::Also, notice how many times the gun clicks and the guy keeps saying it's a "bad primer". And then he keeps hitting the forward assist, pulling on the charging handle (which is seen ejecting the unfired rounds) and hitting the bottom of the magazine even though it's already back in the gun after he kept taking it out and putting it back in prior (Someone else in the video even says 'Jesus [name withheld], you don't know how to load these.' and the shooter responds with 'I didn't load these, [name withheld] did.'). I think that could have been a contribution to the gun exploding in his hands. But then again, I'm not the expert on M16 rifles, I'm only guessing. Anyone else got a better explanation? --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 17:05, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
:::It was the shooter saying that the guy who came to help didn't know how to load them, and then that assisting guy said it was someone else. There is nothing wrong with tapping the magazine even when it appears to be seated correctly, as it makes sure it is all the way into the well. Although he did hit forward assist unnecesarily once or twice, I don't think it would have done any harm or contributed to the kaboom. The file description and all the comments say that this was a squib, and it was all the shooters fault for not identifying it and checking the barrel (there are also quite a few people that seem to think it is possible the load 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber at a time by repeatedly pulling the charging handle, but this is Youtube after all). But I don't think it was, as on the first misfire there was only the click of the hammer, and when he pulled the bolt back a round was ejected which wouldn't have been chambered if the previous "bang" was a squib. I've never fired a round with primer but no powder, but surely there would still be an audible "bang" rather than just the click of the hammer? When exactly did the bullet get stuck in the barrel, or am I missing something? Regardless, I would never use ammo I hadn't loaded myself, particularly not done by a friend of a friend. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 17:33, 26 September 2011 (CDT)
::::I think it's safe to say that the idea of unintentionally loading 2 or 3 rounds into the chamber of an M16 rifle is an overstatement and pretty much absurd (I've NEVER heard of such a thing happening with the M16 rifles). But one person's explanation in the comments is that when the hammer struck the primers of the "squib" rounds, the 'click' in question was the popping of the primer, which popped with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of the gun, but without the 'bang' sound since the powder of the "squib" rounds were bad. So when the explosion happened, it was because the hammer struck a perfectly fine round, or one with enough charge in it's powder load, and that bullet impacted the other bullets stuck in the barrel, which caused a high-pressure situation ending with the magazine blowing apart, and leaving the M16 rifle damaged (probably for good). Talk about good craftsmanship going to waste! But at least the shooter in the video was not injured in any way. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 05:51, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::I could be wrong as have never done it myself (I am not a moron) but I am fairly sure that a primer going off with no powder in the round makes a louder noise than just a click, which is all that is heard in this video. Anyone know how loud just the primer from a .223 would be? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:05, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
::::::Apparently [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS1K1zJQhOQ this] is a .308 primer. Now bear in mind how far down the audio is turned (as you don't have to wear ear protection when he fires), I can ''kinda'' see that might end up sounding like a click. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:52, 30 September 2011 (CDT)
:::::::Yeah, most of the time all cameras (except for maybe the professional ones used by filmmakers) capture certain sounds differently. It is possible for the primers of "squib" rounds to discharge with enough force to lodge the bullets into the barrel of whatever gun it's fired from (and sometimes it will stay there until the owner disassembles their weapon and removes the lodged bullet), and most of the time, the "popping" sound of the primers sounds like a "click" when captured on a camera similar to the one used in the video of the M16 blowing up in that guy's face. --[[User:ThatoneguyJosh|ThatoneguyJosh]] 00:28, 1 October 2011 (CDT)

:I've seen this video before, looks like the guy was pulling a half-assed SPORTS drill several times while the weapon was malfunctioning on him. But yeah, shooting custom-loaded ammo with no reliable means of quality control is definitely not a good idea, as this video clearly demonstrates. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 23:52, 4 October 2011 (CDT)

== Not working ==

Why is the M16 page not working. It locks up my computer, and the network wont respond. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes before it will work.[[User:Gunner5|Gunner5]]

:It might be your browser and / or RAM is having trouble with the size of it; this is the largest page on the site. What's the spec of your PC? [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 00:03, 5 October 2011 (CDT)

==Difference between original M16 and M16A2==
I know how to distinguish XM16E1s, M16A1s, and M16A4s from each other, but how are both the M16 and the M16A2 different visually? Both rifles have no forward assist or removable carrying handles and the M16 can also appear with a "birdcage" flash hider. - [[User:Kenny99|Kenny99]] 00:34, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

[[Image:M16-SP1-30Mag.jpg‎|thumb|none|500px|M16 aka SP1 (flat "slab side receiver") with an A1 "birdcage" Flash hider - 5.56x45mm]]
[[Image:M16A2.jpg|thumb|500px|none|M16A2 Rifle - 5.56x45mm. Select Fire rifle (Safe/Semi/3 round Burst Only).]]

:I'll try. Also with the caveat that I have to replace the movie M16s on the site. An IMFDB member whom I am eternally grateful for, pointed out that I had A2 lowers on A1 uppers. Though that works, it's also not correct. I have to replace the M16 pics with exact versions of each one, but that will take time. I just point this out to make sure that people know I'm aware of it.

1) M16: original USAF contract in Vietnam and in the U.S. slab side upper and lower, 1st pattern duckbill three prong flash hider, original buttstock with foldable rear sling swivel. Early models had counter-turning screws in stead of pivot pins to attach the upper and lower receiver.

1) XM16E1: 2nd pattern three prong flash hider, Chromed bolt, exposed mag release button (no ribbing) but there is a partial rib for the front pivot detent pin and spring, old M16 style buttstock and rear sling swivel, tear drop forward assist.

2) M16A1: Birdcage Flash hider, Phosphate bolt but chromed chamber, mag release button ribbing to protect against accidental mag dump and full ribbing to the front pivot detent pin and spring, A1 style buttstock with fixed rear sling swivel (with stowaway compartment in the buttplate)

3) M16A2: A2 style flash hider with no holes on the lower part, ring washer instead of lock washer, heavy barrel, round forearm, full ribbing on mag release button and front pivot detent pin and spring, front part of lower receiver is beefier and thicker as well as the rear part near the base of the tube ring. Updated and longer (by about 1") rear buttstock and thicker buttplate, slight finger ledge on the pistol grip about midway down. Adjustable rear sights with elevation control as well as side to side. A2 does NOT have a detachable carry handle.

Hope this helps. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 02:26, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

:Don't forget that the M16A2 has semi/3-round burst as opposed to semi/full auto in the M16 (though you rarely see this feature used on-screen as most directors feel the full auto looks better than a 3-round burst). [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 04:15, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
No versions of the M16 has screws rather than push pins at the front of the receiver. The only rifles that have these are the Sporter 1 rifles (which is what all of the pictures on the main page are actually of). The M16s that pre-date the captive push pin (Models 601 and 602) have a large headed push pin that is held in place by a ball detent on the pin itself. Also, the "M16" category can be separated out into 3 different guns which the USAF used seqeuntially in turn. First is the original 601 which has green furniture, original "duckbill" flash hider and triangular charging handle (around 14,500 were made, 8,500 to USAF, 1,000 to the Army for evaluation and the rest to special forces, police, and a number of Asian countries). The 602 is the quintessential slab sided M16, and introduced the updated 3 pronged flash hider, black furniture, the current "T" shaped charging handle. The third "M16" is what is often called the USAF M16 and was the most produced variant, and was the Model 604. Early versions had the M16E1 type partial fence lower, whilst the later versions had the M16A1 full fence lower, and these weapons continued to be used by Air Force until 2001, when all M16s were updated to the A2 standard. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 06:58, 6 October 2011 (CDT)
::Cool! Thanks [[User:Commando552|commando552]] As I've said before, I pulled movie armory weapons. Very rarely do I get access to actual firearms museums, but then 99% of the full auto guns were probably sporter conversions, since it was much easier to convert a title I to a class III gun prior to 1986. I have a LONG laundry list of photos to update thanks to you guys! ;) But the information helps. Also only in recent months have i realized how many franken guns were built in the 1970s/80s and 90s on the M16 platform. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 22:24, 21 October 2011 (CDT)

Pics of the different M16s I mentioned above:
[[File:Colt 601.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 601 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:Colt 602.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 602 - 5.56x45mm]]
[[File:USAF Colt Model 604.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 604 (USAF M16) - 5.56x45mm]]
--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 10:48, 6 October 2011 (CDT)

== Historical Question ==

Anyone knows why XM177 never dropped the 'X' letter in it? If 'X' usually implies the prototype and testing stage, then why did XM177 have it with both upgrades and use in service, and the jamming M16s in Vietnam didn't? Or some other reasons? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:02, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Ignoring the USAF rifles (which got official GAU designations) the US Army only purchased a few thousand XM177s and the kinks were never really ironed out, so it is fair to call it an XM program still. Rifle was still in development stages really when US Army cut the funding due to Vietnam war involvement being scaled back.. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:27, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

::Were the Colt Commandos used in Somalia much more refined versions of XM177 program? If yes, I wonder why they were not put back in official service... --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:19, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Do you have a pic of them, not sure what rifles you are talking about. If you are talking about the Model 733, that is not really related to the XM177s. US forces purchased a small number of Model 733s for Special Forces and was called the M16A2 commando, although Colt later offered it as the M4 Commando. Rangers and Delta in Somalia also used both Model 723s (A1 rear sight a straight barrel) and 727s (A2 rear sight with M4 profile barrel) and these weapons were known initially as M16A2 carbines, before morphing into the M4. Till the early 90s there were still some Model 653s (called the M16A1 carbine) and XM177s with the long moderators replaced with birdcages knocking around as well, so there were probably a lot of different guns knocking around Somalia. These guns were not refinements though, they were guns from the 60/70s that were still being used due to the fact that the US Army did not produce a standard issue carbine till the M4. I'm not even gonna mention the franken-guns that would have been used by the USAF special forces at the time. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:08, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Ah, thanks, that explains it. [http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/449652_going_for_a_1993_Somalia_car15_build_and_need_your_help.html Here are the various photos]. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 10:26, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Carbine/Model 653/Model 727/Model 733 ==

Firstly, forgive my ignorance in things regarding the variety of AR-15 models. In the model description it says that it was 'never adopted formally by the US Military, and thus never had an "M" or "XM" designation.' However, in the following section where it lists the movies in which we can find this rifle it is often found as the M653. Can someone more knowledgeable either clear up why there is this discrepancy? Thanks --[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 18:34, 23 October 2011 (CDT)

:Editors (and video game developers) often confuse the 'Model', 'M' and 'MK' designations. M653 should be changed to Model 653. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:14, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::Correct. Model "___" is the official COLT designation and usually comes first. Only when the weapon is adopted as an official front line weapon does it get the "M" designation. And all these minutia of details in the weapons history STILL gives me a headache! ;) [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 03:01, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

:::So does that mean we need to clean up this section to take all the 'M's away?--[[User:Rebusdi|Rebusdi]] 08:11, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

::::I've replaced the "M"s with Models --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:22, 24 October 2011 (CDT)

== Colt Model 978 ==

'''I took this from Wikipedia, so it might be wrong.''' A lot of video games like to portray the M4A1 with additional burst mode. I read that the Colt Model 978 (a.k.a. "M4 Carbine Enhanced") is an M4 that features a S-1-3-F trigger group. I wonder how popular this variant was/is and most importantly when was it finalized and released? (if it was ever) - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 14:15, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:The four position fire selector weapons were adopted by nobody as far as I know, with the exception of Greece who bought the Model 778 (don't know how widespread this was, have just seen a few in some pics), which is basically a Model 727 with the four position selector. You can actually buy parts for a four position selectors, sears and disconnectors from Colt, so guns can be modified to this standard. However, I guarantee you that no guns in games actually have the correct four position selector, as it looks different to the standard one. Can't find any pics right now, but the four position selector is a flat plate with a ridge along the centre that ends in an odd knurled dome, sort of like a citrus juicer.

:I have also heard of US Special Forces having the four posiiton M4A1s (Model 978), but may just be rumors, and if true there are very few of them and certainly not widespread. They could also be modifications to standard M4s. Below is a pic of the side of a Model 738 M4 Commando Enhanced (Model 733 with the four position selector) showing the selector switch design.

:--[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:37, 25 October 2011 (CDT)

:[[File:Colt Model 738.jpg|thumb|500px|none|Colt Model 738 "M4 Commando Enhanced" fire selector.]]

:Which games portray the M4A1 with additional burst mode, for example? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 06:40, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

::Ghost Recon features the normal A1 and the "M4 SOCOM" which has the bonus burst mode. Same in The Sum of All Fears game (both Tom Clancy games). Cannot think of any other games right now. (Maybe I was a little exaggerating when I wrote "a lot of" since in most games you can't even toggle the rof.) So, according to what commando552 wrote, it is possible that the M4A1 with S-1-3-F group in Ghost Recon was intentional, since you control a (fictional) U.S. special force. (And the correct trigger groups: We (at least I) don't take the selectors into account, since in most games you cannot even see them, or are set to safe while the gun goes all rock&roll.)- [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 07:55, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Well, yeah, the universe of Tom Clancy is the one where the prototypes and ultra rare things come true, including weapons and vehicles, so the presence of AR-15-type firearm with four-position selector switch shouldn't come as surprise ;) --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 08:48, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

::::Bozitojugg3rn4ut, the selector really should be taken into account, as apart from the receiver markings the selector switch is the only external difference between the regular Colt carbines and the Enhanced version with burst and auto. If it has the regular fire selector and lacks the markings on the receiver, then it is simply and M4 with the wrong fire control group. Is very hard to tell from the Ghost Recon screen shots as there aren't any of the relevant side, but you can just make out that there are only 3 positions marked on the right side of the receiver, making the physical model that of a regular M4/M4A1 rather than an Enhanced M4. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 09:09, 26 October 2011 (CDT)

Interestingly, this discussion is the first result when one Googles "Colt Model 978". [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 21:05, 19 December 2011 (CST)

== Main Page ==

There are 2 issues:

1) Shouldn't it be called AR-15, since ArmaLite AR-15 is the weapon that started it all?

2) There is at least 1 not-rifle on the page: [[M16 rifle series#Colt 9mm Submachine Gun|Colt 9mm Submachine Gun]]

--[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 03:58, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

:I agree, AR-15 makes much more sense to me. I would call the page "AR-15 Variants", gets rid of the problem that "M16" is only relevant 5 or 6 of the 30 or so guns on the page, and the fact that rifle is not necessarily the correct term for all of them. I'm not sure how the site mechanics work, but would changing the name of the page create a massive problem for the 1000+ pages that link here, or would the redirects sort it all out? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:44, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

::Need to contact admins and ask them about this. I support your version, as more appropriate one. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:17, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

:::Though you are technically correct, M16 is the most widely recognized nomenclature for the weapons that appear in films. Remember that we are not a gun encyclopedia, we are a weapons in MOVIE/TV/et al wiki. Sure, we utilized those rules of starting with the original weapon when it came to more obscure weapons (like grouping the R4s in with the Galils), but really famous weapons have their own pages, weapons that a firmly entrenched with their own identity in the mind of the movie going public. We also did not start a StG-44 page and then branch the AK-47s out from that even though the AKs obviously were a stepchild of the StG-44 Design theory. Very rarely are guns 'presented' as AR-15s in media. In fact many movie goers don't even recognize the term. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 18:13, 30 October 2011 (CDT)

::::I don't remember many movies where the character says: "Here is my M16!" or where the weapon is listed in closing credits :\
::::The reason for AK-47 not being on the same page as StG-44 is having completely different design. AK-47 was ''inspired'' by StG project, nothing more. There are a lot of weapons that bear a ''resemblance'' to AK-47 or AR-15 but have different design and thus their own page. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:29, 31 October 2011 (CDT)
::::'''P.S.''' Imagine IMFDB consisting of pages: ''"M1911"'', ''"Desert Eagle"'', ''"MP5"'', ''"Garand"'', ''"M14"'', ''"M16"'', ''"AK-47"'', ''"Everything Else"'' :D

::::Now, [http://kingshamus.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/official.jpg THIS] made me laugh xD --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:34, 4 November 2011 (CDT)

== What is the point of the Colt 9mm SMG? ==

Every time I look at it just seems so useless. I mean, why would anyone want what is essentially an M4 that does less damage with less range? Recoil would be lower I presume, but I cant see an M4 having a gigantic amount of recoil. I'm sure someone could help provide me with some insight but at the moment I'm finding it very hard pressed to find a purpose of this thing. [[User:Lurker McNasty|Lurker McNasty]] 14:20, 14 December 2011 (CST)
:I imagine it had more to do with some guys at Colt wanting to get in on the 9mm subgun market but not wanting to design an entire new platform to do it with. The 9mm round also gives you less penetration, which is good if, say, you're trying to shoot the guy you're aiming at only rather than him and the three things behind him. This is why the majority of people who actually use it are police or police-like units. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 14:42, 14 December 2011 (CST)
::The main advantage of it is that it is an SMG with the same ergonomics as an AR-15 platform, which makes training easier. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 15:27, 14 December 2011 (CST)
:::9mm is much easier to suppress compared to 5.56. But Evil Tim's answer about Colt not wanting to design a whole new SMG is probably the right one.--[[User:Predator20|Predator20]] 16:13, 14 December 2011 (CST)

== M4 Scope optics ==

Can someone give me some info on what is the standard scope optic for the military, and what is the best scope optic to use on the M4? i was just curious--Gunner5

:Which military? The M4 is used by a number of them in some capacity. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:53, 19 December 2011 (CST)

U.S. Military.--Gunner5

:The most common, I would think, are the ACOG and Aimpoint RDS, but just about any optic can be used on it. As far as what's the best optic to use, "best" is a relative term and depends on the individual shooter and what he/she prefers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 02:01, 20 December 2011 (CST)

::Not to mention different optics are more effective in certain situations than others; most ACOGs typically use 4x magnification and are effective for engaging targets at a distance, while red dot sights don't use magnification and are more suited for close-range engagements. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 21:21, 12 March 2012 (CDT)

== USE WITH S.A.S ==

Why does the S.A.S use the M16A2 as their standard rifle? In Bravo Two Zero (the book), Andy McNab calls the M16A2 a 4x4, and the SA80 a Rolls-Royce. Looking back, the S.A.S have a history of using foreign weapons. Why is this? Do Britain not make good enough weapons? Sure, the only thing we currently make and export are Accuraccy International's (which are the best sniper rifles in the world, and I don't care what anyone else says. It strikes me as strange, though, why the S.A.S use the AW50 and not the AS50 as their heavy-caliber sniper rifle), but why do the S.A.S have to use American weapons? Why not use German?

:"...''have'' to use American weapons?" You have some kind of grudge against American weapons or something? :P In any case, the events of ''Bravo Two Zero'' took place during the first Gulf War, so I really doubt they're still using M16A2s in this age of optics and rail systems. It's my understanding that their ''current'' "standard" long gun is the C8FTHB carbine, which is essentially an M4A1 with a 16" barrel of different profile to that of a standard M4. As to why, well, they use what they ''want'' to use, whether it be British, American, German, whatever. Much like their American counterparts in CAG and DEVGRU, they have the leeway and budget to get a little bit of everything because their mission calls for it. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 10:30, 7 January 2012 (CST)

::The SAS adopted the M16 as a replacement for the 7.62 L1A1 SLR which was the standard British rifle at the time. The SLR was superior in terms of reliability, accuracy and range, but the M16 had a major weight advantage in terms of both the weapon and the ammunition, could mount a grenade launcher, and was capable of automatic fire (so was the SLR, but a match was required to be inserted into the action). One of the reasons they continued to use it after the introduction of the SA80 rifles was due to initial reliability problems, along with the fact that until relatively recently the SA80 culd not use an underbarrel grenade launcher (M16s were also used by other units, such as some Royal Marine units and the Pathfinders). Don't really know the exact reason why the SAS (along with Military Police and Royal Marine close protection along with a few others) use the C8SFW/CQB rather than the SA80 but would imagine it is partially due to the lower weight and the modularity of the SFW (bear in mind that the SA80 didn't have a railed forened until a few years ago and has only just gotten a MIL-STD-1913 on the top for different sights). Unlike the M16s adopted before, the C8 has actually been officially adopted by the MOD as the L119A1 (both the SFW and the CQB share the same designation though). --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 16:17, 7 January 2012 (CST)

:::L119A1 is the official designation for C8 SFW in British SF service. C8 CQB is just its variant. An analogy would be M4A1 (official service) and Colt Commando (unofficial service). --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:50, 8 January 2012 (CST)
::::The Colt Commando moniker has never been attached to the M4, it's been primarily used to refer to previous A1-pattern carbines like the XM177 series. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 15:30, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
:::::Colt currently markets the Model 933 as the M4 Commando, and several models have the "M4 Commando" rollmarks on the left side of the lower receiver as well. It is a bit messed up though also being stamped as the "M16A2 Commando" (making no sense as it is a flattop), or simply "M4LE" on law enforcement Commandos. The Commandos in particular demonstrate the practice of cobbling guns together from whatever bits are available. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:44, 13 March 2012 (CDT)
::::::Colt adopted the M4 designation as a marketing ploy, the 11.5" 933 isn't used by the military in any capacity that I know of and not likely to start since those that need shorter barrels already have access to even ''shorter'' 10.3" CQBR URGs and 10.5" Mark 18s, neither of which are M4s since they don't match the physical specs of an M4. Heck, I can pull up a pic of a flat-topped GUU-5/P that to the untrained (or uncaring) eye would be identified as an M4A1, but isn't because it uses a slab-sided pre-A1 lower receiver. A lot of M4A1s in use by SOCOM units also can't technically by Colt naming standards be considered M4s since SOCOM now has 12.5" URGs for use on M4 lowers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 01:55, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

:::::::Delta Force used the weapon, when it was known as 'M16A2 Commando' (CAR-15 in article), in Somalia.[http://www.guns.com/the-us-special-forces-and-their-guns-and-gear-or-at-least-the-stuff-we-know-about.html] I'd also recommend to get the book "Weapons of Delta Force" by Fred Pushies.
:::::::Force Recon also knows Model 733 as 'Colt Commando'.[http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm]
:::::::In essence, more modern (meaning, without older parts) M4 CQBR and M4 Commando are just that. M4 Carbine with shorter barrel. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 02:52, 29 March 2012 (CDT)

::::Another reason the SAS don't use the SA80 is because you cannot use it in your left hand and they prefer to be able to use a weapon in both hands as it's better for shooting from behind cover. --[[User:Cool-breeze|cool-breeze]] 13:12, 12 February 2012 (CST)

:::"Why not use German?" Aside from the fact that if you say SAS most people with think of "Black Kit" with an MP5, there is still some rumours flying around about them using the 416 and 417. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 04:30, 13 February 2012 (CST)

::::Probably thrown around by HK's PR department, they sold a ton of MP5s off the back of the SAS using them to break up the Iranian Embassy Siege. [[User:Evil Tim|Evil Tim]] 07:20, 13 February 2012 (CST)

:::::Using the HK416 might be BS, but British Special Forces do use the HK417. It was bought a few years ago as a DM rifle before the army got the L129A1. It was also more widely tested by the Royal Marines in the role, but was replaced when the L129A1 was adopted. [http://www.eliteukforces.info/images/gallery/uksf/sfsg-multicam-hr.jpg Here] is a photo of an SFSG team, the guy second from the left in the first row has a suppressed HK417. They guy behing may also have one, but can only make out the stock so could be another AR-15 pattern rifle. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:51, 13 February 2012 (CST)
::::::He's got a Minimi Para with a PIP stock like the guy second from the right in the front row; you can see the iron sight against his shirt. [[User:The Wierd It|The Wierd It]] 11:50, 13 February 2012 (CST)

== Page Title ==

While this page contains many weapons based on the AR-15, shouldn't it be called "AR-15 family of weapons" or something like than rather that just "M16 rifle series"? --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 12:36, 15 February 2012 (CST)
:Look 4 topics above this one. If it was up to me I would call it "AR-15 rifle series" or something like that, but MPM2008 made the point that although this would be technically correct the average person coming to site would be much more familiar with the term M16, which is fair enough. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 12:53, 15 February 2012 (CST)

== Sniper Rifles? ==

How are we defining "Sniper Rifles" for [[:Category:Sniper Rifle]]. It seems to me that all the guns on this page are Assault Rifles. I know that you can certainly convert an M16 to a sniper rifle but all the images seem to be of Assault rifles. Just curious! --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 19:47, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:The main rifle on here that I would class as a sniper rifle is the Mk 12 SPR but there are also the Vietnam-era M16 sniper variants, the Model 655 and 656. There are also some "target" AR-15s like the Colt Accurized Rifle and the Match Target Competitions that I would probably class as sniper rifles if I had to put them into a category. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 20:21, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:::Sadly, it seems that Colt has discontinued the Colt Accurized Rifle for the time being. I checked my old link on the [[SWAT 4]] page and it no longer works, nor is the Colt Accurized Rifle anywhere to be found on their product page sections of their website (maybe it just couldn't compete with similar products from other companies?). I was hoping the Colt Accurized Rifle would have been included on this page--I guess that won't be the case now, for how can a firearm be included here on this wiki if it failed to make much of an impact (to the point that it was discontinued) and thus won't be in many pieces of audio-visual media? --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:57, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
::I missed the Mk 12 SPR. I 100% agree with you on that one, that is DEFINATELY a sniper. Thanks for clarifying! Any change we could could put a definition on the [[:Category:Sniper Rifle]] page like the one that is on the [[:Category:Assault Rifle]] page? --[[User:Zackmann08|Zackmann08]] 20:28, 18 March 2012 (CDT)

::The 655 and 656 were full-auto capable, so I wouldn't exactly lump them in as sniper rifles. Same goes for the Mark 12, if you want to get technical. The Mark 12 grew out of a program to create a SOPMOD upper receiver component that the shooter could switch out with his M4 upper when in need of increased range and accuracy. So in its original form, the SPR was still technically an assault rifle (and as such it's still frequently used in that manner by SOF who switch out uppers on full-auto lowers), it just had a high-magnification scope, and we all know that just sticking a scope on an AR doesn't make it a sniper rifle. It didn't lose its full auto capability until it was type-classified as an individual weapon. Mark 12s in regular grunts' hands would likely be dedicated sniper rifles, but those you see in use by SOF are more than likely just SPR uppers on M4 lowers. There's a similar distinction between Mark 18s (complete type-classified weapon with 10.5" uppers on refurbished M16A1 lowers) and "M4A1 CQBRs" (10.3" uppers on M4 lowers). [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 20:55, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:::Just because something has full automatic capability doesn't mean it is not a sniper rifle. It is unusual and arguably unnecessary, but as far as I know there is no official definition of what a sniper rifle does and does not have. In my opinion it is a sniper rifle if it is designed for and used in the sniping role. Hell, you can even call small caliber stuff like the Ruger 10/22 a sniper rifle as it has been used as one. For the purposes of this site though, I think the category should be used if the rifle ''appears'' to be a sniper rifle to the average user who might be trying to identify something. In other words, a catch all term for sniper, designated marksman, target and hunting rifles. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 21:14, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
:I was under the impression that a dedicated sniper rifle had to have (at a minimum) a scope, be chambered in a full-size rifle round (so as to allow for accurate distant shots with high stopping power, a key part of sniping), be ergonomically suited for use while prone (i.e., its magazine must not be so large as to create an obstruction when lying on the ground on your stomach, and preferably have a bipod) and allow for accurate semi-automatic/bolt-action fire (fully-automatic or burst-fire is possible but counter-productive for accurate long-range shots, and such capability is usually reserved for Designated Marksmen who must travel with a squad and still keep some close-quarters firepower if necessary). So something like the VSS Vintorez wouldn't count because its round is short-ranged (up to 400 meters only given its subsonic velocity, so it's more of an accurized "special purpose" assault rifle), while the SVD would, due to its scope, 7.62x54mmR caliber, small magazine size to ensure it doesn't get in the way when used while prone (I'm very confused as to why the Soviets never put a bipod on the SVD, however), and semiautomatic-only nature. --[[User:Mazryonh|Mazryonh]] 21:57, 18 March 2012 (CDT)
::As we only have the sniper rifle category here, I would class the VSS Vintorez as such, as it is designed as a suppressed sniper rifle. By virtue of the fact that it is suppressed it uses a lower power shorter range cartridge than a typical sniper rifle, but not all sniping is long range. If you were to use an integrally suppressed [[Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_series#Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare_Suppressed|AWS]] with subsonic ammunition the range would be limited like on the Vintorez, but that doesn't mean it is no longer a sniper rifle. In particular, for police and some special forces uses long range is not as important in a sniper rifle as accuracy and other considerations. Like I said before, silenced Ruger 10/22s have been used by special forces for almost silent sniping. Another example would be the Russian SV-99, which is a silent sniper rifle based on a .22LR biathlon rifle. Weapons like these are specialized sniper rifles, but they are still sniper rifles none the less. I'm not sure whether trying to make a fixed definition for a sniper rifle is a good idea, as you will always find exceptions. Not all "sniper rifles" even use telescopic sights, an example being the Barrett M82A2 which uses a 1x red dot sight as it was actually designed for shooting from the shoulder as a low cost anti helicopter weapon. Another rifle that breaks your definition would be the [[BMS Milcam Rifle Series|BMS Snicam]] which is undeniably a sniper rifle, but uses a 5.56mm cartridge from 20/30 round STANAG magazine. Different sniper rifles have wildly different characteristics depending on the specific task they are designed for. The only thing I can say about what should be in the sniper rifle category is if it looks like one, put it in there. This isn't an encyclopaedia, the idea of the categories is to help people identify unknown guns, so if it looks like a sniper rifle that is the category they will be looking in. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:13, 19 March 2012 (CDT)

== About charging handle ==

From [http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/11/foghorn/ask-foghorn-what-does-a-forward-assist-do/ The Truth About Guns]:

''"Ever since, part of the military’s manual of arms for loading the M16 and its variants includes a mandatory smacking of the charging handle even if it isn’t necessary."''

Is it about racking the charging handle? --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 01:51, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

:That is a mistake, smacking the charging handle does nothing on an AR-15. As it had previously been talking about the introduction of the forward assist (the button on the right rear of the upper receiver), I assume it is meant to say ''"Ever since, part of the military’s manual of arms for loading the M16 and its variants includes a mandatory smacking of the '''forward assist''' even if it isn’t necessary."'' --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 05:01, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

::Ah, thanks for the explanation. --[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 07:50, 28 March 2012 (CDT)

== AKM front sight on an M16? ==

Was just doing a bunch more caps for the [[Bravo Two Zero]] page and came across this:
[[File:Bravo Two Zero (3634).jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
This is the SP1 that is carried by Baz (Ian Curtis) fitted with a CM203 launcher but it looks as if (to me at least) it is fitted with an AKM front sight. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before or know of after-market parts that look like this? This seems like an absolutely random modifications for an armourer to do to a rifle, only thing I can think of would be if the sight on the gun wa damaged during filming so they slapped this on. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:40, 2 April 2012 (CDT)
::The movie was filmed completely in South Africa. Could the SA armorers be using any Vektor rifles disguised as American guns? [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]]
:::I really need to get around to updating the page to show it, but the weapon is a straight SP1 apart from the front sight so it isn't a Vektor. You can actually see the existing M16 gas block, and this looks like the top part of the gas block/sight has been sawed off and an AKM sight welded on. As it switches between a regular SP1 and this one with the cobbled together sight, I'm guessing that the rifle was broken part way during shooting and an AKM sight was the only vaguely suitable spare part they could get their hands on. I've actually taken a bundh of caps for this film bu have forgotten about them till now, will try and add them later to show what I mean. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:44, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== RAS on M16A4 ==
What is this rail system?
[[Image:M16A4withANPEQ&ACOG.jpg|thumb|none|500px]]
It doesn't appear to be a KAC M5 RAS because it lacks the cut-out in the upper half to accommodate the M203 barrel clamp. If you don't know what I mean, zoom in on the front sight area in this pic and notice how the side rails are shorter than the top and bottom [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/USMC_M16A4_Rifle.JPG]. I've only seen this kind of rail on airsoft M16s. Is the rail in MPM's image above an airsoft replica? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 22:17, 13 April 2012 (CDT)

:I was having hard time trying to find that specific handguard... While it looks very similar to the KAC's M5, maybe IT IS an airsoft replica, though not 100% sure. --[[User:RaNgeR|RaNgeR]] 10:27, 30 May 2012 (CDT)
::Nope it is NOT an airsoft replica. Those rails are REAL and damned heavy as well. :D I think on this particular gun it had an aftermarket rail system. Not all guns on screen have KAC Rails. I will hunt down the rifle and take more detailed pics of the rails. [[User:MoviePropMaster2008|MoviePropMaster2008]] 01:15, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== "M4 Commando" ==

Both Model 933 and Mk 18 Mod 0 sections mention that the M4 Commando is not an official designations. I don't really understand this, as that is how Colt calls it on their webpage. [http://www.colt.com/ColtMilitary/Products/ColtM4CommandoR0923CQB.aspx]- [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 11:07, 12 May 2012 (CDT)
:About the Model 933, when they were first offered I'm not sure if they were marketed as "M4 Commandos" but they definitely are now. In fact, they even have "M4 Commando" stamped on the magazine well. The Mk 18 is a different kettle of fish, as that is not an "official" colt model and is just put on whatever lower receiver. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 11:37, 12 May 2012 (CDT)

== Question ==
Why isn't the M16A3 listed on here and just about every other site.Just wanted to know?Is that its an unofficial variant or is it just a M16A2 that fires full-auto?--[[User:DJsputnik|DJsputnik]] 00:50, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

:It's just an M16A2 with full-auto in place of burst. Almost all "M16A2s" in movies are essentially M16A3s since they're A2 uppers on older A1 or SP1 full-auto lowers. [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 11:57, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::Let's not forget that it can be flat-top also. - [[User:Bozitojugg3rn4ut|bozitojugg3rn4ut]] 13:05, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::I'm noy sure if the full auto version of the A2 that people call the A3 was ever actually officially designated as the A3, but for clarity I tend to call it the Model 646 or M16A2E3 (which was its official name). I save the M16A3 name for the full auto version of the M16A4, the Model 901, whih is currently officially designated by the US as the M16A3. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 13:26, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
::::Defense Industry Daily disagrees. [http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m-16-rifle-purchases-04517/] [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 18:46, 24 June 2012 (CDT)
:::::The rifle that the DID article is referring to is the later Model 901. They may refer to it as a full auto version of the A2, but they also talk about the order from FN in 2007 for new A3s and A4s, which were definitely both using the flat top receiver. The flat top A3 was developed in the 90s with the A4, so rifles built in 2007 would not be to the old spec. That article is either unclear and is referring to two different models, or it is a typo (or just wrong) about referring to the "A3" they are talking about as being a full auto A2. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 19:08, 24 June 2012 (CDT)

== Anyone recognise this variant? ==

I just came across this rifle on the ''[[Strike Back - Season 1]]'' page where it is listed as an M4A1:
[[File:Strikeback-M4-1.jpg|thumb|500px|none|]]
However, it isn't a Colt rifle as the flat top rail is higher than on a normal AR-15 pattern gun. Also, it has an A1 forward assist plunger, A1 lower receiver (although I imagine this is a replacement to allow full auto) and a non Colt stock (curved in front of the locking bolt as opposed to vertical, several companies like Tapco make their stocks like this). I've read somewhere on here (a ''[[Stargate]]'' page probably) that Olympic Arms flat top rifles have a higher scope rail compared to other AR-15s, is this one of them? I know bugger all about Olympic Arms rifles and can't seem to find many pictures of them, but all the ones I can find show them with a standard height rail, kind of like I can never find a picture of one with the "Stowaway" pistol grip that the ''[[Stargate]]'' pages also state that they have. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 04:25, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

:Doesn't look too different from a standard M4 carbine to me. The telescoping stock isn't much of an identifier as to the model of the weapon; the standard stock can be easily swapped out for third-party aftermarket stocks (in fact you'll note that there are images of the M4 with both four and six-position stocks on this site). As for the forward assist button, it can be swapped out just as easily as the stock. [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]] 06:11, 11 July 2012 (CDT)
::The forward assist and stock are secondary, they just add to the likelihood of it not being a Colt gun. Another thing that is easily replaceable but just adds to the whole weirdness of this gun in that fact that it has an A1 rather than A2 flash hider. The main thing is the scope rail. It is higher than on a standard AR-15 pattern gun made by Colt, or the majority of other manufacturers. The easy place to see this is at the rear above the charging handle, where the receiver above the charging handle slot is about twice the thickness. I've just noticed as well that the brass deflector looks odd, the top edge of it slopes upwards and goes higher up the weapon. This is definitely a live fire gun as they are used throughout the series firing blanks, but it is definitely not a Colt M4. Was hoping someone would be able to recognise the profile of the upper receiver, as that is the unique part which makes this gun unidentifiable. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 08:03, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

::I am the one who wrote that comment about Olympic Arms flattop receivers on the ''[[Stargate: SG1]]'' page, and several other pages. If you want a better example of what the earliest OlyArms flattop rifles looked like, check out the pics of the K23B Stubby which is used by [[Gary Sinise]] in ''[[Reindeer Games]]''. My understanding (and I asked about this on the OA message board) is that OlyArms' first flattop receivers were a bit taller (by about .25") than the current mil-spec standard seen on the M4/M16A4, and had a rail that was copied from the Colt ACR (which looks very different from the Picatinny rail). This style receiver was only produced for a short time before Oly started making their flattop ARs with the same type of receiver that Colt had introduced on the M4.

::As for the M4 in ''[[Strike Back - Season 1|Strike Back]]'', I agree with you that the flattop receiver is clearly taller than that of a mil-spec M4, but unlike early OlyArms flattops, it appears to have the Picatinny rail. So unless Oly manufactured tall flattops that had Picatinny rails (and I have no idea if they did), that upper is probably from some other manufacturer. -[[User:MT2008|MT2008]] 19:44, 11 July 2012 (CDT)

== M16 and SP1 sections ==

As it is impossible to tell an original Model 602 M16 from a Model R6000 Sporter without seeing a detailed view of the front receiver pin (the M16 has a flat push pin whereas the SP1 has a screw headed pin) should they have separate sections? Furthermore from what I can tell the vast majority of the weapons listed in the M16 section are SP1s, as are all the images in that section. I would sugest merging the SP1 section into the M16 section and making a note of the fact that the vast majority of "M16s" in film/TV are actually SP1s. Also, I think the M16/M203 and M4/M203 sections should be merged into the main weapon sections as firstly (in the case of M16s) it doesn't distinguish by variant, and secondly most of the time an M203 is attached to a weapon people just list it under the notes section rather than putting it in these sections. Thoughts anyone? --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 07:43, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

== 50-round mags ==

Every time a video game includes a M16 or M4 with 50-round magazines it is listed as an incorrect capacity, why? According to some research, the M16 rifle series use STANAG magazines, which include the 50-round capacity, so why would a 50-round M16 be unrealistic? --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] 03:03, 8 August 2012 (CDT) ''(I previously forgot to sign my post, so here it is)''
:I've never heard of a 50-round STANAG magazine, I thought they only came in 20 and 30 rounds. And please sign your posts. --[[User:Funkychinaman|Funkychinaman]] 14:14, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
Some companies do make quad stack 50 round magazine, Surefire for example. However, these magazine look different to a regular 30 rounder widening outside of the magazine well to double thickness. If the gun is modelled with a 30 round mag and has a capacity of 50 then it is incorrect, just as a gun modelled with a 20 round mag holding 30 rounds is incorrect. To the best of my knowledge no game has featured quad stack AR-15 magazines yet, so any game where the weapon holds 50 rounds is wrong. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 14:31, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
::Edit: My mistake, Surefire mags only come in 60 or 100 rounds, not 50. Think there are still 50 round ones out there, Magpul have files a patent for a 50 round version of the PMAG. Come to think of it, I really don't know why surefire didn't make the mags 50 rounders, as then the length would be about the same as a 30 rounder making it less obtrusive and more compatible with existing vests and pouches, but whatever. --[[User:Commando552|commando552]] 18:13, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
:I can't find anything on Google about 50-round STANAG mags. Maybe the OP could enlighten us? [[User:Spartan198|Spartan198]] 16:49, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
::On the Wikipedia page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STANAG_Magazine STANAG magazine] it says that there are 40, 50 and 90-round magazines (in addition of the usual 20, 30 and 100), which drew my attention on the 50-round mag --[[User:Ultimate94ninja|Ultimate94ninja]] 03:03, 8 August 2012 (CDT)
Wikipedia sucks as a source of information. STANAG Magazines are designed to fit into an M16 magazine well. STANAG magazines are supost to be 30 rounds. 5,10,20,40,50, 60,90,100 round magazines are not STANAG magazines although they will fit into a STANAG magazine well. There was a 50 round magazine made durring vietnam and it was proven unreliable and removed from service as fast as it was designed and built. Thus ever 50 round magazine in videogames is erronious. Standard magazine capacity for a M16 is a 30 round STANAG magazine.[[User:Rockwolf66|Rockwolf66]] 15:10, 14 August 2012 (CDT)
:So, are you saying that the original 20 round magazines that were called STANAG aren't STANAG? You truly are stupid. A STANAG magazine is any magazine designed to fit into the magwell of the M16 and other weapons that use the magazines. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 19:12, 2 September 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Type 63 rifle

2012-09-03T00:08:44Z

Jeddostotle7:

Guys, this gun is apparently select-fire. Can I change the part saying it's semi-auto? [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 15:21, 2 September 2012 (CDT)
:The page itself is specifying semi-auto versions were exported to Australia, which is implying that the versions referred to earlier weren't semi-auto only. I'll go ahead and change the fire mode portion for you. [[User:Kadorhal|Kadorhal]] 18:09, 2 September 2012 (CDT)
Oh, okay. Thanks, too. [[User:Jeddostotle7|Jeddostotle7]] 19:08, 2 September 2012 (CDT)